"Nature-Based and Tech-Based Carbon Removal Work Better Together," Christoph Gebald, Climeworks CEO

WEBVTT
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Over the last 18 months, we have proven that
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we can halve the energy consumption of our system.
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And as well, if you look at the, maybe you've
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seen a picture of our plant in Iceland, if you
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imagine that plant, right now what we're showing
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in pilot applications is that we have at least
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four times more CO2 that we can capture per size
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of machine. So essentially, that will dramatically
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reduce the capital cost of the system. Carbon
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Sessions, today's carbon industry leaders. Are
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you passionate about climate action and staying
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on top of the latest trends in the world of carbon
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capture, removal, and markets? Then the Carbon
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Visit carbonherald .com and sign up today for
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our weekly newsletter. Welcome to the Carbon
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Stations podcast, where we speak to some of the
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leading figures in the emerging carbon industry.
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Our guest today is Christoph Gebbald, CEO of
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director capture pioneer Climeworks. Christoph,
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thank you so much for joining us today. It's
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an honor to have you on the show and I'm very
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excited to have this conversation with you. But
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before we get into all things carbon, however,
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it's tradition that we first get to know our
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guest's background a little bit before. So namely,
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it's always very curious to me what folks used
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to do before getting into carbon removal as this
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industry is still so very young. So with that
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said, please do tell us a bit about what you
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used to do before Climeworks. Thank you, Violette.
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It's great that you have me today and happy to
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tell you a bit more about my background. So professionally,
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my background is I'm a mechanical engineer by
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training. I did the full spectrum, if you want,
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from undergrad to PhD. As you asked about what
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I did before carbon removal, I'm afraid I didn't
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do anything before. So essentially all of my
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professional career, I did carbon removal. So
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I did my university research on that topic. And
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then right after uni, I started Climeworks as
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a company. Wow, that's a very unusual... story
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on this podcast, for sure. Usually people come
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from all sorts of walks of life. But yeah, so
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how did you decide to focus on carbon removal,
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though? What was the inspiration behind that?
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Three things came together at that time when
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actually my co -founder and I decided to go deep
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into carbon removal. The first thing, and I don't
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have a real explanation for that, is my dream
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has always been to be an entrepreneur. Like from
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the beginning, from when I was a child, I remember
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I always wanted to do my own thing. So that was
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one dimension. Then the other dimension, maybe
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privately about myself, I consider myself an
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outdoorsy person. So I spend a lot of time, as
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much as possible, at least in the outdoors and
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mainly in combination with sports. So skiing,
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climbing. mountain biking. And in my early 20s,
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I had the impression that I witnessed climate
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change firsthand when I climbed the mountains.
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So at times I was navigating with, at that time,
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printed maps. And those were dated, say, 1991.
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And I was doing my trip in 2001, so 10 years
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later. And at times I couldn't find in reality
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what I saw on the map. And I thought, oh, you
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can see that stuff is happening in this very...
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fragile mountain environment. So that was the
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second dimension that I thought I witnessed the
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effects of climate change. And then the third
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dimension, as mentioned before, I'm an engineer
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by training and I am somewhat passionate about
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technology and especially I'm passionate and
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fascinated about exponential curves of technology.
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So somehow... Technology always surprises humans
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by how quick at times things can go or about
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the exponential curves. And putting those three
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together were like, like if I reverse engineer,
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so to the start in carbon removal, my desire
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that A, I wanted to use my education to find
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something. like a technology solution that can
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help us in the fight against climate change.
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And then I wanted to do it in the context of
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an own company. And this is now 20 years ago,
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or 19 to be precise, in the summer of 2007. I
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found a university research program on direct
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air capture, which was very visionary, by a professor
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at ETH in Zurich, Switzerland. His name is Aldo
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Steinfeld. And I applied and I gladly got admitted
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to the program. And so 19 years ago is when I
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started my research on the topic. And then early
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on, we had really good results in the lab. And,
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you know, being young, being somewhat naive,
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we thought, okay, those results are so promising.
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We can start a company. And so we did already
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two years later, 2009. That's 17 years ago. My
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co -founder Jan, who's also an engineer by training,
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and I co -founded Climeworks. And then the story
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began. So early on, we raised equity. And as
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engineers, we always had the tendency to go out.
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You know, we wanted to leave the lab and we wanted
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to deploy what we discovered in the lab in real
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environments. And so we started to build the
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first demonstration plan in 2012. That was three
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years after incorporating the company. Then the
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smallest size of a repeating unit of our modular
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technology in 2014. And then in 2017, the world's
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first commercial plant that went online in Switzerland.
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So again, we always wanted to go out and deploy.
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I think that 17 years down the road, that's still
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somewhat distinct and characteristic to Climeworks.
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Now, to your question on how did we embark on
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carbon removal, the first 10 years of Climeworks
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were really about taking CO2 from the air. And
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then using the CO2 for producing fuels. So that
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was the research of my professor at ETH Zurich.
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He wanted to produce fuels from sunshine. And
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only by coincidence, it was in the year 2016,
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I ran into the former president of Iceland at
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a climate conference, COP in Marrakesh, Morocco.
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And I told him what I do. And he told him, hey,
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listen, that's exactly the missing piece. of
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what I have been working on the last two decades.
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So Iceland has been leading in research on storing
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CO2 in the ground, but Iceland did not have technology
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to capture CO2 from the air. So putting one and
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one together, a technology to capture CO2 and
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a perfect place to store CO2 in the ground were
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the recipe to develop a leading carbon removal
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platform. And this is then what we did later
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down the road and in 2021. We built the first
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plant in Iceland. So that is the three -minute
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summary, so to say, of the last 19 years and
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my journey in carbon removal. Wow, that's a very
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serendipitous moment and a very inspiring story
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from start to finish, but especially the part
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of running into the president of Iceland, of
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all people. And yeah, so I'm curious to learn
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more about actually those first Icelandic projects,
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Orca and Mammoth. If you could perhaps share
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with us some of the most important operational
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lessons. Well, what we are doing, like what today
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Climax is doing and what Jan and I as co -founders
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have been doing for the last 19 years is somewhat
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new grounds. Like the plants we are developing,
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but also the markets we are developing is something
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that no one has developed before. So it's real
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pioneering. And as you can imagine, now if you
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think about a mountaineer who is climbing for
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the first time a North Face or doing something
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where no human has been, you can imagine that
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there are a lot of learning opportunities on
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the way. And so, like you were saying, this image,
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so to say. This image also applies to a venture
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and this image also applies to bringing science
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from the lab to the field, especially for something
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that hasn't been done before. So to make a long
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story short, the last 19 years and especially
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the last five years since we're deploying in
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Iceland have been full of operational experiences.
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And as I mentioned beginning, both my co -founder
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and I, we... We did the full spectrum of academic
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education, like undergrad, grad school, PhD in
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engineering, like mechanical engineering, process
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engineering, chemical engineering. So we, you
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know, we learned the textbook of doing an analysis,
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then programming a model on what you expect and
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doing some experiments in the lab. Now to your
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question of the operational experience, what
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has been really interesting is when we did this
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textbook academic style of working. and then
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applied that to the field, the results we had
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in the field never matched what we expected or
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what our models predicted. And that was very
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surprising to us. It was also disappointing to
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us because it renders things very complex. And
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why is that the case? Because essentially we
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are treating the air, we are treating the atmosphere,
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and that is there are constantly changing conditions.
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Like in the morning, for example, the atmosphere
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is typically humid. At noon, it's drier. And
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again, in the evening, if it's becoming more
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humid over the course of a year, in some areas
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of the planet, we have seasons. So it's sometimes
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colder, sometimes hotter, sometimes more precipitation
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than in other days. And dealing with all of that
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couldn't be predicted by our models. So what,
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through the operational lessons, like in Iceland,
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if you have rain, rain is horizontal and not
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vertical, as an example, or typically we have
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very strong winds. Many times we're going through
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the freezing point, like we have minus temperatures
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and then go to plus temperatures and back to
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minus, and suddenly everything freezes. And incorporating
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all of that, all of those observations, into
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the research and development and the optimization
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of the technology. Those are our biggest operational
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learning steps. Essentially, what we're capturing
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from the field with, as I explained before, we
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always have the tendency to go out to deploy
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in the real field. Those are the biggest operational
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lessons, like the experiences you get with humidity,
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with changing conditions. putting that back into
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your development feedback loops and then making
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sure that you're actually accounting for those
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and that you're able, that your system can accommodate
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those. Those are the really big lessons. And
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we are now practicing that on a very big scale
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with our latest plant in Iceland that we call
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Namath, which went online in May 2024. And the
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first year has been very bumpy because of that,
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because the unknown unknowns. But I'm very happy
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that now one and a half years down the road,
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actually, The thing is doing what it's expected
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to do. And like this has been, so to say, our
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continuous journey for the last one and a half
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decades to observe, improve, refine, and then
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bring better technology out there. Wonderful.
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On that note, perhaps like on the flip side of
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that, are there any... major technological breakthroughs
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that stand out to you that kind of, you know,
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kind of made this progress possible? Well, there
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are plenty. How much time do we have? Well, just
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the major ones. Well, essentially, our technology,
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as I mentioned, is a modular technology. And
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you can imagine it's a box. Inside the box, there's
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a very poor structure. Imagine it as a foam that
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is storing or capturing the CO2 on its surface.
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And there are many innovations around this foam
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inside. So when I did my PhD, I developed probably
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600 different materials. Climeworks today has
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developed thousands, if not 10 ,000 of such materials.
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And to your question of the main innovations
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are with regard to... the filter material. So
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improving the filter material under harsh environmental
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conditions, rendering it more stable over years
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of operation, making sure it consumes the lowest
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amount of energy possible. And then finally,
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very importantly, that you actually can also
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produce it on industrial scales at the cost that
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you wanted. So that is clearly a key topic of
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innovation, but there are many other areas where
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we work as well, like on the apparatus, like
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on the machine side of things, also on very Conventional
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topics like pumps, ceilings, valves, etc. In
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all of those dimensions, we have innovations.
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Speaking of costs, everybody knows that one of
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the main barriers to scaling DAC is cost. And
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I'm already hearing from people that we should
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move on from the idea that we'll reach $100 per
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ton. But where are you today on the cost curve?
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And what needs to happen to bring prices even
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lower than that over the next decade, let's say?
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What I find fascinating about direct air capture
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is exactly what you allude to. So on the one
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hand, it has a lot of beauties. Direct air capture
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is infinitely scalable. We did studies together
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with other universities. They looked at the materials,
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energies required to capture billions of tons
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of carbon from the air. And the conclusion is
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we can do it. We have the materials, we have
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the energy. So it's infinitely scalable among
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all carbon removal approaches. It has the lowest
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risk. So actually you can imagine that it at
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one point can remove like a quarter or half of
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global CO2 emissions. At least that's what climate
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science says in 25 years from now. On the other
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hand, as you mentioned, there's a downside and
00:13:16.690 --> 00:13:19.309
the downside is it has high costs. It is still
00:13:19.309 --> 00:13:22.970
expensive. Why? Because it's still first of a
00:13:22.970 --> 00:13:26.629
kind and early technology. And because it's one
00:13:26.629 --> 00:13:29.970
of, if not the most challenging process slash
00:13:29.970 --> 00:13:32.610
mechanical engineering challenge on earth. So
00:13:32.610 --> 00:13:35.529
it's something incredibly challenging to do.
00:13:35.610 --> 00:13:38.490
And in such the strategy of Climeworks is very
00:13:38.490 --> 00:13:41.590
simple. Like our one line strategy is to reduce
00:13:41.590 --> 00:13:45.409
the cost of direct air capture. And the avenues
00:13:45.409 --> 00:13:48.070
we are working is some of which I mentioned.
00:13:49.870 --> 00:13:53.129
heavily investing in producing optimized filter
00:13:53.129 --> 00:13:55.490
materials to capture CO2 from the air. And we
00:13:55.490 --> 00:13:57.370
had massive breakthroughs, especially over the
00:13:57.370 --> 00:14:01.090
last 12 months. We were 10x -ing, so to say,
00:14:01.110 --> 00:14:03.090
the performance of the material in comparison
00:14:03.090 --> 00:14:05.950
to previous materials, which is a massive, like
00:14:05.950 --> 00:14:08.389
the filter material is one of the main operational
00:14:08.389 --> 00:14:11.600
costs of a DAX system. So if you have suddenly
00:14:11.600 --> 00:14:14.639
a 10x better performance, the effect you have
00:14:14.639 --> 00:14:16.899
on the operational cost is massive. The second
00:14:16.899 --> 00:14:19.259
thing over the last 18 months, we have proven
00:14:19.259 --> 00:14:22.039
that we can have the energy consumption of our
00:14:22.039 --> 00:14:25.720
system. And as well, if you look at the, maybe
00:14:25.720 --> 00:14:27.740
you've seen a picture of our plant in Iceland.
00:14:27.840 --> 00:14:30.379
If you imagine that plant right now, what we're
00:14:30.379 --> 00:14:32.980
showing in pilot applications is that we have
00:14:32.980 --> 00:14:37.259
at least four times more CO2 that we can capture
00:14:37.259 --> 00:14:39.980
per size of machine. So essentially. that will
00:14:39.980 --> 00:14:43.240
dramatically reduce the capital cost of the system.
00:14:43.399 --> 00:14:46.500
So for the next plant we will build, we are expecting
00:14:46.500 --> 00:14:49.440
that we can halve the cost of the technology
00:14:49.440 --> 00:14:52.440
at least. And very concretely, maybe to make
00:14:52.440 --> 00:14:54.720
this a bit more tangible or to put a number out,
00:14:54.820 --> 00:14:57.299
we have the opinion that by the end of this decade,
00:14:57.480 --> 00:15:00.320
which is already quite soon, we will have a platform
00:15:00.320 --> 00:15:04.379
all in, like considering a platform that will
00:15:04.379 --> 00:15:07.860
produce a net ton. of carbon removal reduction
00:15:07.860 --> 00:15:10.340
from the atmosphere, meaning it's a DAC device,
00:15:10.600 --> 00:15:13.759
but it's also storing the CO2, and it's also
00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:16.639
making sure we're considering the gray emissions
00:15:16.639 --> 00:15:19.059
due to materials and energy, which oftentimes
00:15:19.059 --> 00:15:21.200
is forgotten in this domain, that the platform
00:15:21.200 --> 00:15:24.080
will deliver carbon removal credits at a cost
00:15:24.080 --> 00:15:26.919
of in the range of 400 to 500 US dollars per
00:15:26.919 --> 00:15:29.980
ton of CO2, which is, as you alluded to in your
00:15:29.980 --> 00:15:33.830
question, still some distance to $100. Do I believe
00:15:33.830 --> 00:15:37.269
$100 can be achieved? I think $100 is challenging.
00:15:37.470 --> 00:15:39.669
But as I mentioned at the beginning, I'm really
00:15:39.669 --> 00:15:42.789
fascinated about the exponential curves of technology.
00:15:43.169 --> 00:15:46.029
And at times, things are not intuitive to us
00:15:46.029 --> 00:15:48.769
of what is possible. And to give one example,
00:15:49.129 --> 00:15:52.330
you know, my PhD was about the filter materials
00:15:52.330 --> 00:15:55.740
for DAC. Had you asked me 15 years ago, Hey,
00:15:55.820 --> 00:15:57.879
Christoph, what do you think is possible? How
00:15:57.879 --> 00:16:00.179
much better can it get? I would have said maximum
00:16:00.179 --> 00:16:03.879
2x better. So maximum doubling the capacity of
00:16:03.879 --> 00:16:07.259
what we have done before. And as mentioned last
00:16:07.259 --> 00:16:10.039
week, we have drawn a 10x. So that is, again,
00:16:10.120 --> 00:16:13.779
the beauty of technology. In such, I think $100
00:16:13.779 --> 00:16:17.200
is clearly a challenging road to go. But, you
00:16:17.200 --> 00:16:21.059
know, technology has proven us over the last
00:16:21.059 --> 00:16:24.019
100 years impressive things that we haven't been
00:16:24.019 --> 00:16:26.240
able to imagine. Oh, there's also the fact that
00:16:26.240 --> 00:16:29.299
$100 is no longer the same $100 it was just five
00:16:29.299 --> 00:16:32.759
years ago. But in that line of thought, actually,
00:16:32.960 --> 00:16:36.120
I know that in the end of 2025, you guys launched
00:16:36.120 --> 00:16:38.500
the world's largest DAC Innovation Center, one
00:16:38.500 --> 00:16:41.820
of the goals of which is kind of to lower costs,
00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:43.720
if I'm not mistaken. So I was wondering if you
00:16:43.720 --> 00:16:45.679
could tell us a little bit more about your work
00:16:45.679 --> 00:16:48.990
there. Yes, end of 2025, Climeworks launched
00:16:48.990 --> 00:16:53.129
the largest innovation center around direct air
00:16:53.129 --> 00:16:56.509
capture worldwide. It's in a building very close
00:16:56.509 --> 00:16:59.509
to the airport in Zurich, Switzerland. It's actually
00:16:59.509 --> 00:17:02.629
a building where formerly the space rockets,
00:17:02.830 --> 00:17:05.049
the European space rockets have been built. So
00:17:05.049 --> 00:17:07.609
maybe that can give you an impression of the
00:17:07.609 --> 00:17:11.420
dimensions. So it's really a big building. Actually,
00:17:11.500 --> 00:17:14.799
it goes back to an idea of one of our earliest
00:17:14.799 --> 00:17:17.859
employees who five years ago approached my co
00:17:17.859 --> 00:17:19.980
-founder and I and said, hey, he has this vision
00:17:19.980 --> 00:17:23.559
of building up a DAC innovation center, which
00:17:23.559 --> 00:17:27.359
will then help us to produce the best R &D outcomes
00:17:27.359 --> 00:17:29.799
that are possible in this domain, which we found
00:17:29.799 --> 00:17:36.000
a very visionary idea. And being open is one
00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:37.960
of our core values. So we're very open to this
00:17:37.960 --> 00:17:40.640
idea and gave him green lights that we... We
00:17:40.640 --> 00:17:42.920
endorse it and we want to do that. And fast forward
00:17:42.920 --> 00:17:46.539
five years later, we built a center. It's roughly
00:17:46.539 --> 00:17:50.539
a $50 million investment. We employ roughly 50
00:17:50.539 --> 00:17:54.519
FTEs in the center. And maybe to give you some,
00:17:54.700 --> 00:17:58.559
and what does it allow us to do? It's essentially
00:17:58.559 --> 00:18:01.559
the full range of research and development required
00:18:01.559 --> 00:18:05.019
in DAC. So we can, there's a big chemical lab
00:18:05.019 --> 00:18:07.480
where we can put molecules together to build.
00:18:07.960 --> 00:18:10.799
leading edge filter materials, then we can test
00:18:10.799 --> 00:18:15.140
those, but we can also scale those to sizes that
00:18:15.140 --> 00:18:18.579
will allow us to predict the performance of commercial
00:18:18.579 --> 00:18:21.440
plants. And maybe to make that a bit more tangible,
00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:27.380
before we had the center, to go from an idea
00:18:27.380 --> 00:18:30.579
of a new filter material to testing it in the
00:18:30.579 --> 00:18:33.299
real environment, I mentioned before, we always
00:18:33.299 --> 00:18:36.099
want to go out as quickly as possible. That took
00:18:36.099 --> 00:18:38.579
us roughly six months, so half a year. Right
00:18:38.579 --> 00:18:41.519
now, in this innovation center, we can do this
00:18:41.519 --> 00:18:44.880
whole process from idea to testing it in real
00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:48.059
conditions in one week. And not only can we do
00:18:48.059 --> 00:18:50.819
that with one material, we can do it with 100
00:18:50.819 --> 00:18:54.440
materials at the same time. So I think that gives
00:18:54.440 --> 00:18:58.700
you an impression of the sheer size this thing
00:18:58.700 --> 00:19:02.700
has and the potential we have to... to optimize
00:19:02.700 --> 00:19:06.079
materials. And that, I think, can also give you
00:19:06.079 --> 00:19:08.819
an explanation why last year we have been able
00:19:08.819 --> 00:19:11.519
to show something like a tenfold improvement
00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:16.099
of the performance of the filter material. Maybe
00:19:16.099 --> 00:19:19.980
another highlight for me personally was that
00:19:19.980 --> 00:19:23.559
last year we brought a test plant to the kingdom
00:19:23.559 --> 00:19:26.259
of Saudi Arabia. And recall, Climeworks is operating
00:19:26.259 --> 00:19:29.450
plants in Iceland. Iceland is mostly. Cold temperatures,
00:19:29.630 --> 00:19:31.750
humid temperatures. And the kingdom of Saudi
00:19:31.750 --> 00:19:34.329
Arabia is mostly very hot temperatures and actually
00:19:34.329 --> 00:19:37.970
dry. So like summer conditions are 50 degrees
00:19:37.970 --> 00:19:41.970
Celsius, 10 to 20 % relative humidity. And what
00:19:41.970 --> 00:19:45.250
that means is actually you can't imagine any
00:19:45.250 --> 00:19:48.390
more opposite or any more extreme in comparison
00:19:48.390 --> 00:19:51.710
to what we tested before. So bringing a pilot
00:19:51.710 --> 00:19:54.390
plan there was something new for us. And going
00:19:54.390 --> 00:19:56.680
back to what I mentioned before, like we... We
00:19:56.680 --> 00:19:58.759
always try to model the performance of plants
00:19:58.759 --> 00:20:02.819
and then we test it. And for the first time in
00:20:02.819 --> 00:20:05.779
the history of our companies on the last 17 years,
00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:10.140
actually the predictions of what we had in the
00:20:10.140 --> 00:20:11.980
innovation center and the performance that we
00:20:11.980 --> 00:20:14.680
predicted with our models and our test facilities
00:20:14.680 --> 00:20:18.819
in Zurich, 101 correlated to what we empirically
00:20:18.819 --> 00:20:21.880
observed when testing the plant in the kingdom
00:20:21.880 --> 00:20:24.059
of Saudi Arabia. And that was a real breakthrough.
00:20:24.200 --> 00:20:28.029
And that was only... made possible due to this
00:20:28.029 --> 00:20:31.069
innovation center investment that we have and
00:20:31.069 --> 00:20:34.250
us being able to essentially simulate all climates
00:20:34.250 --> 00:20:37.210
on Earth in our test facilities and make predictions
00:20:37.210 --> 00:20:40.589
on the performance of the plan. That's fascinating.
00:20:41.049 --> 00:20:43.250
Another aspect I wanted to ask you about, DAC
00:20:43.250 --> 00:20:46.390
is notoriously energy intensive. And actually,
00:20:46.470 --> 00:20:48.890
in my mind, I thought that was the reason that
00:20:48.890 --> 00:20:51.829
DAC is so expensive. But you told me now that's
00:20:51.829 --> 00:20:53.650
actually the technology itself. But as far as
00:20:53.650 --> 00:20:56.279
energy goes, How do you think about ensuring
00:20:56.279 --> 00:20:59.980
DAC is powered by truly clean energy and how
00:20:59.980 --> 00:21:02.420
critical is that to really maintaining its credibility?
00:21:03.079 --> 00:21:06.720
Powering DAC by renewables, I think, is a very
00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:09.880
promising, especially synergetic approach because,
00:21:09.940 --> 00:21:13.240
you know, renewables are not always delivering
00:21:13.240 --> 00:21:16.640
energy when humans need it. For example, if you
00:21:16.640 --> 00:21:19.299
want to use your dishwasher at night, not necessarily
00:21:19.299 --> 00:21:22.339
sun is shining, stating the obvious, right? So
00:21:22.339 --> 00:21:25.279
in the context of making renewables big, so going
00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:28.140
from the current share to one day, like 100%,
00:21:28.140 --> 00:21:32.480
we have to think about systems that help us to
00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:35.619
match the availability and the demand of renewables.
00:21:35.819 --> 00:21:39.359
And this is like a broader topic of energy storage.
00:21:39.519 --> 00:21:41.779
So we currently discuss a lot about batteries
00:21:41.779 --> 00:21:45.339
and about other means of storage. And I would
00:21:45.339 --> 00:21:47.880
invite you to think about direct air capture
00:21:47.880 --> 00:21:53.210
as a very flexible way. to consume energy if
00:21:53.210 --> 00:21:57.009
no one else can take the energy. Like in a dream
00:21:57.009 --> 00:22:02.490
setup, I think renewable energy systems can be
00:22:02.490 --> 00:22:06.349
built out in a very big scale. And there will
00:22:06.349 --> 00:22:10.549
be times, so to say, that even if you want, in
00:22:10.549 --> 00:22:13.269
the most unfavorable conditions, the system is
00:22:13.269 --> 00:22:16.210
still able to deliver 100 % of the energy that's
00:22:16.210 --> 00:22:18.920
required for our daily activities. But there
00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:21.519
will be times when maybe 900 % of energy will
00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:23.960
be delivered because the sun is shining and the
00:22:23.960 --> 00:22:26.420
wind is blowing at the same time. And in those
00:22:26.420 --> 00:22:29.339
instances, you want to have systems that can
00:22:29.339 --> 00:22:32.140
accommodate this energy. That can be, for example,
00:22:32.140 --> 00:22:34.839
the production of green hydrogen. That could
00:22:34.839 --> 00:22:38.000
also be a machine taking CO2 from the air and
00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:40.920
storing it in the ground. So this is why I say
00:22:40.920 --> 00:22:43.720
I think the combination of renewables and DAC
00:22:43.720 --> 00:22:47.619
is an incredible... synergetic way of combining
00:22:47.619 --> 00:22:52.380
systems and can actually help us to scale renewables
00:22:52.380 --> 00:22:55.960
beyond what we currently think. So that's my
00:22:55.960 --> 00:22:59.240
view on energy. Of course, if we build, now that's
00:22:59.240 --> 00:23:01.640
the big vision, and that maybe happens a decade
00:23:01.640 --> 00:23:04.519
or two decades down the road. If we think now
00:23:04.519 --> 00:23:07.160
very concretely for our next plant, we also have
00:23:07.160 --> 00:23:11.490
to make sure that we actually get energy. On
00:23:11.490 --> 00:23:13.450
the one hand, there's, of course, the dream of
00:23:13.450 --> 00:23:15.769
having access to renewables. On the other hand,
00:23:15.769 --> 00:23:18.009
we want to make sure that projects are not being
00:23:18.009 --> 00:23:20.430
delayed by permitting processes and others. And
00:23:20.430 --> 00:23:22.329
such, we are also looking into other means of
00:23:22.329 --> 00:23:25.329
energy, for example, industrial waste heat that's
00:23:25.329 --> 00:23:29.410
already around and that can be directly integrated
00:23:29.410 --> 00:23:33.539
into a DAC facility. So one thing I also want
00:23:33.539 --> 00:23:36.599
to ask, there is this divide in people's minds
00:23:36.599 --> 00:23:39.420
of engineered versus nature -based carbon removal
00:23:39.420 --> 00:23:43.579
solutions. And I was wondering on how you see
00:23:43.579 --> 00:23:46.119
DAC fitting alongside nature -based pathways.
00:23:46.420 --> 00:23:49.140
That's actually one of my absolute favorite topics
00:23:49.140 --> 00:23:53.220
to talk about. Okay, fantastic. I think, and
00:23:53.220 --> 00:23:57.420
maybe that's not yet intuitive to everyone, like
00:23:57.420 --> 00:24:00.660
in carbon removal technology and nature. couldn't
00:24:00.660 --> 00:24:04.680
be any better pair. Why is that the case? I always
00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:08.000
say mathematically, they fit together very well.
00:24:09.000 --> 00:24:11.640
Credits from nature -based carbon removal projects
00:24:11.640 --> 00:24:15.220
are comparatively low cost. Credits from technology
00:24:15.220 --> 00:24:18.059
-based removal are currently comparatively high
00:24:18.059 --> 00:24:21.619
cost. The volume, nature is operating at scale.
00:24:22.190 --> 00:24:24.569
Technology is not yet operating at scale. It's
00:24:24.569 --> 00:24:26.430
first of a kind. It's developing. It's going
00:24:26.430 --> 00:24:29.029
through the scale -up journey. On the other hand,
00:24:29.049 --> 00:24:32.589
measuring how much CO2 has been taken up by nature
00:24:32.589 --> 00:24:34.750
is challenging. Measuring that with technology
00:24:34.750 --> 00:24:38.730
is very simple. Similar for the additionality.
00:24:38.990 --> 00:24:41.069
Sometimes it's more challenging on the nature
00:24:41.069 --> 00:24:43.190
side. For tech side, it's very simple to show
00:24:43.190 --> 00:24:46.130
additionality. So I think you understand where
00:24:46.130 --> 00:24:48.750
I'm heading is they're very complementary where
00:24:48.750 --> 00:24:51.900
either of the two is always the best in those
00:24:51.900 --> 00:24:54.220
dimensions. Now, if you bring them together,
00:24:54.480 --> 00:24:57.480
you're always the best because in either dimension,
00:24:57.519 --> 00:25:01.000
you have access to the best approach. And in
00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:05.259
the financial world, you would call that uncorrelated.
00:25:05.259 --> 00:25:07.579
And that's something you want to have, especially
00:25:07.579 --> 00:25:10.039
if you talk about something as serious as climate
00:25:10.039 --> 00:25:12.599
change. You don't want to depend on only one
00:25:12.599 --> 00:25:15.940
approach. You want to make sure that you're...
00:25:17.500 --> 00:25:20.440
progressing and scaling in the most robust, most
00:25:20.440 --> 00:25:23.299
de -risked and most commercial way. And with
00:25:23.299 --> 00:25:26.339
nature and tech having essentially no correlation
00:25:26.339 --> 00:25:29.400
at all, them being uncorrelated, I think it's
00:25:29.400 --> 00:25:32.539
very actually natural to put them together and
00:25:32.539 --> 00:25:34.900
put them in the same box and not consider them
00:25:34.900 --> 00:25:40.240
in silos. And that is fundamentally the idea
00:25:40.240 --> 00:25:43.660
of, so that's not a technology innovation, that's
00:25:43.660 --> 00:25:45.640
a business model innovation, so to say, that
00:25:45.640 --> 00:25:48.339
we started to guess. three to four years ago.
00:25:48.500 --> 00:25:51.660
And that's a business model innovation that we
00:25:51.660 --> 00:25:54.099
brought to the markets roughly two years ago
00:25:54.099 --> 00:25:56.880
with what we call Climeworks Solutions. So today
00:25:56.880 --> 00:26:00.779
Climeworks also acts in nature and we are actually
00:26:00.779 --> 00:26:03.539
buying nature -based credits and we are assembling
00:26:03.539 --> 00:26:07.500
portfolios for clients which contain both nature
00:26:07.500 --> 00:26:10.299
and technology. And by that, we are actually
00:26:10.299 --> 00:26:13.259
trying to bring those worlds together. And that
00:26:13.259 --> 00:26:16.230
resonates very, very well on the market. Okay,
00:26:16.269 --> 00:26:18.930
that's fantastic. So that puts you in a perfect
00:26:18.930 --> 00:26:20.970
position to answer my following question, which
00:26:20.970 --> 00:26:23.730
is with nature -based approaches, like I talk
00:26:23.730 --> 00:26:26.650
to project developers and they tend to cite a
00:26:26.650 --> 00:26:28.970
lack of demand as one of the leading issues in
00:26:28.970 --> 00:26:31.410
the voluntary carbon market. Now, given that
00:26:31.410 --> 00:26:34.150
Climax has secured some of the major, like biggest
00:26:34.150 --> 00:26:37.170
offtake agreements with large corporations over
00:26:37.170 --> 00:26:38.910
the years, would you say that there's a lack
00:26:38.910 --> 00:26:41.349
of demand for engineered CDR in the same way
00:26:41.349 --> 00:26:43.309
that there is for nature -based carbon removal?
00:26:43.789 --> 00:26:46.470
No, there's no lack of demand. It's the opposite.
00:26:46.690 --> 00:26:49.609
There's actually a supply crunch. The whole domain
00:26:49.609 --> 00:26:52.289
of carbon removal will be supply limited over
00:26:52.289 --> 00:26:55.990
the next years. And to give an example, I mentioned
00:26:55.990 --> 00:26:58.549
we started a thing called Climeworks Solution
00:26:58.549 --> 00:27:01.190
as a business model innovation where we bring
00:27:01.190 --> 00:27:03.289
tech solutions, but also nature -based solutions
00:27:03.289 --> 00:27:06.390
to the market. We are working with several nature
00:27:06.390 --> 00:27:10.369
-based developers and we agreed on volumes that
00:27:10.369 --> 00:27:14.390
we are intending. that we are intending to sell
00:27:14.390 --> 00:27:17.809
on the market in 2025. And actually we sold double
00:27:17.809 --> 00:27:20.970
the amount that we projected, which the nature
00:27:20.970 --> 00:27:23.430
-based developer found very exciting. We found
00:27:23.430 --> 00:27:26.470
very exciting. So I do think if the solutions
00:27:26.470 --> 00:27:29.690
are positioned in the right way, the market will
00:27:29.690 --> 00:27:32.710
actually be hungry for those solutions and will
00:27:32.710 --> 00:27:35.490
accept those solutions. And especially also with
00:27:35.490 --> 00:27:39.480
like the first regulatory mushrooms, so to say,
00:27:39.559 --> 00:27:43.500
starting to grow and first regulatory mechanisms
00:27:43.500 --> 00:27:46.880
starting to be in place. Actually, as of March
00:27:46.880 --> 00:27:51.079
2026 in Japan for carbon dioxide removal, we
00:27:51.079 --> 00:27:55.019
see increased interest of buyers to, so to say,
00:27:55.059 --> 00:27:57.339
future -proof their activities with regulation
00:27:57.339 --> 00:28:00.619
coming into place. So positioned in the right
00:28:00.619 --> 00:28:04.099
way, would that mean like pairing them with engineered
00:28:04.099 --> 00:28:06.819
-based removals? Is that the right way? Positioning
00:28:06.819 --> 00:28:09.579
them right way, what I mean with that is that
00:28:09.579 --> 00:28:12.440
more and more companies look at carbon dioxide
00:28:12.440 --> 00:28:18.099
removal as they look into other assets. So they
00:28:18.099 --> 00:28:21.220
look into carbon removal like they're managing
00:28:21.220 --> 00:28:23.400
other assets. And other assets are typically
00:28:23.400 --> 00:28:26.839
managed in the dearest, well -diversified way.
00:28:26.980 --> 00:28:29.240
This is what I mean with that. Like we are building
00:28:29.240 --> 00:28:32.319
portfolios that are dearest because... They are
00:28:32.319 --> 00:28:34.559
composed of several factors. They're not only
00:28:34.559 --> 00:28:37.480
composed of several approaches, but inside the
00:28:37.480 --> 00:28:39.440
approaches, they also have several suppliers.
00:28:39.500 --> 00:28:41.880
And by that, you're de -risking as you would
00:28:41.880 --> 00:28:44.480
de -risk any other assets. Like if, for example,
00:28:44.579 --> 00:28:47.579
a company hedges currencies, probably the company
00:28:47.579 --> 00:28:50.480
will never do that by betting on only one horse.
00:28:50.640 --> 00:28:53.319
It will be a very diversified approach. And this
00:28:53.319 --> 00:28:56.539
is how we... We look into carbon dioxide removal
00:28:56.539 --> 00:28:58.880
as well. And as a highlight, maybe if I can share
00:28:58.880 --> 00:29:02.359
that as a highlight in the year 2025, we delivered
00:29:02.359 --> 00:29:06.160
essentially 100 % of the non -direct air capture
00:29:06.160 --> 00:29:09.440
credits that we promised to clients, which is
00:29:09.440 --> 00:29:12.500
something I have not seen in the industry elsewhere.
00:29:12.740 --> 00:29:15.950
And that's a real highlight. Companies do understand
00:29:15.950 --> 00:29:19.630
if they approach us and ask for holistic carbon
00:29:19.630 --> 00:29:22.450
dioxide removal approaches and products that
00:29:22.450 --> 00:29:24.650
they actually get the delivers. And we have track
00:29:24.650 --> 00:29:27.430
records of delivering 100 % last year, which
00:29:27.430 --> 00:29:30.210
many clients. found very exciting and which motivates
00:29:30.210 --> 00:29:32.950
them to actually look into increased volumes
00:29:32.950 --> 00:29:35.990
in the next year. Yeah, that is absolutely highlight
00:29:35.990 --> 00:29:38.690
and definitely something for all project developers
00:29:38.690 --> 00:29:41.309
listening to consider. Some very important food
00:29:41.309 --> 00:29:44.170
for thought there. Now, but turning back to DAC,
00:29:44.390 --> 00:29:47.309
I was wondering how you see the space forming
00:29:47.309 --> 00:29:49.990
because we've been, like Carbon Herald has been
00:29:49.990 --> 00:29:52.710
in this space for the past. five years now and
00:29:52.710 --> 00:29:56.569
we've seen dac explode back when we started it
00:29:56.569 --> 00:29:58.490
was basically just you and maybe one or two other
00:29:58.490 --> 00:30:01.390
players now there's plenty of dac companies popping
00:30:01.390 --> 00:30:04.470
up how do you see them primarily as competitors
00:30:04.470 --> 00:30:07.470
or is there a strong case for collaboration at
00:30:07.470 --> 00:30:09.789
this stage in the industry there's a strong basis
00:30:09.789 --> 00:30:12.190
for collaboration actually this is also what
00:30:12.190 --> 00:30:15.140
we're doing we have like A handful of employees,
00:30:15.359 --> 00:30:17.900
which we call the collaboration watchtowers.
00:30:17.900 --> 00:30:19.940
We are, of course, monitoring other technologies,
00:30:20.240 --> 00:30:23.819
be it on the academic side, but also on the startup
00:30:23.819 --> 00:30:27.160
slash even large corporates that either acquire
00:30:27.160 --> 00:30:30.259
or do in -house activities. And we are monitoring
00:30:30.259 --> 00:30:34.130
that. We are counting more than 100 different
00:30:34.130 --> 00:30:36.849
technology developers. It's not 100 different
00:30:36.849 --> 00:30:38.849
technologies. Maybe it's a handful of different
00:30:38.849 --> 00:30:41.890
technology platforms. So many companies, so to
00:30:41.890 --> 00:30:44.650
say, bet on similar platforms. And there have
00:30:44.650 --> 00:30:47.289
been data points in the past where we either
00:30:47.289 --> 00:30:51.769
acquired the assets of a company and then put
00:30:51.769 --> 00:30:56.390
that into our development system. or where we
00:30:56.390 --> 00:30:59.650
have joint collaboration agreements or joint
00:30:59.650 --> 00:31:02.210
development agreements. Actually, we have several
00:31:02.210 --> 00:31:05.549
of those. What we have and what I have not seen
00:31:05.549 --> 00:31:08.930
elsewhere is we have a fleet of running plants.
00:31:09.230 --> 00:31:12.150
And essentially, if again, we take an example,
00:31:12.210 --> 00:31:14.529
every one of us now think about a running car,
00:31:14.670 --> 00:31:17.970
like we have a running car. Is it the fastest
00:31:17.970 --> 00:31:20.369
car? Is it the most efficient car on earth? No,
00:31:20.430 --> 00:31:24.210
clearly no, but it's running. And if we now find
00:31:24.210 --> 00:31:27.359
other technologies, We have opportunities to
00:31:27.359 --> 00:31:29.839
maybe have a better electric engine in our car
00:31:29.839 --> 00:31:32.359
or have a better windshield wiper or take whatever
00:31:32.359 --> 00:31:35.359
example you want. So we look into opportunities
00:31:35.359 --> 00:31:39.579
how with other technologies or system components,
00:31:39.619 --> 00:31:42.160
so to say, we can improve our technology and
00:31:42.160 --> 00:31:44.519
bring it to the next level. As mentioned before,
00:31:44.700 --> 00:31:47.960
like the one line strategy of what we do is develop
00:31:47.960 --> 00:31:52.200
the lowest cost platform to remove CO2 back from
00:31:52.200 --> 00:31:54.589
the atmosphere. Understood. So probably one of
00:31:54.589 --> 00:31:56.750
the biggest questions I have for you today is
00:31:56.750 --> 00:31:59.690
how you see the role of public policy, whether
00:31:59.690 --> 00:32:03.089
it's in Europe, the US or anywhere else, in accelerating
00:32:03.089 --> 00:32:06.490
the deployment of carbon removal more broadly,
00:32:06.569 --> 00:32:08.970
but DAC in particular. Right now, Climeworks
00:32:08.970 --> 00:32:14.170
has roughly 200 E2B buyers in carbon dioxide
00:32:14.170 --> 00:32:17.109
removal. So I think we have the most sophisticated,
00:32:17.349 --> 00:32:20.150
largest order book in carbon removal globally.
00:32:20.509 --> 00:32:23.839
Now, this order book, is purely voluntary. There's
00:32:23.839 --> 00:32:27.319
a tiny exclusion to that. Last year, Climeworks
00:32:27.319 --> 00:32:30.299
brokered the first Article 6 transaction between
00:32:30.299 --> 00:32:32.700
Norway and Switzerland, where there's a carbon
00:32:32.700 --> 00:32:35.500
removal project in Norway, and that was brokered
00:32:35.500 --> 00:32:38.859
to Swiss off -takers under Article 6. So that
00:32:38.859 --> 00:32:41.720
is the non -voluntary side, but it's comparatively
00:32:41.720 --> 00:32:44.720
small to the voluntary piece. So to make a long
00:32:44.720 --> 00:32:48.000
story short, so far and for the last 15 years,
00:32:48.140 --> 00:32:51.839
our market activities has been focused on the
00:32:51.839 --> 00:32:54.000
voluntary market. And companies working with
00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:57.079
us work with us on a voluntary basis. Now, what
00:32:57.079 --> 00:33:00.980
is the role of policy? Policy is, as I mentioned
00:33:00.980 --> 00:33:04.619
before, is slowly starting to kick in in some
00:33:04.619 --> 00:33:07.839
geographies. And on a very top level, if you
00:33:07.839 --> 00:33:10.660
want, the role of policy is to ensure the future
00:33:10.660 --> 00:33:13.099
growth of renewables. So to make essentially
00:33:13.099 --> 00:33:15.400
a climate necessity, a business opportunity.
00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:18.940
And that can have many forms. That can have,
00:33:19.039 --> 00:33:22.519
in Europe, for example, we are seeing the integration
00:33:22.519 --> 00:33:25.500
or the planned integration. It will be resolved
00:33:25.500 --> 00:33:29.180
in July 2026. The planned integration of carbon
00:33:29.180 --> 00:33:32.460
dioxide removals into the EU ETS scheme, which
00:33:32.460 --> 00:33:35.160
would be a massive demand creation mechanism.
00:33:35.559 --> 00:33:37.900
In the UK, this has already been resolved. In
00:33:37.900 --> 00:33:41.299
the UK, carbon removal credits will be integrated
00:33:41.299 --> 00:33:46.059
in the local UK ETS as of 29. And as we speak
00:33:46.059 --> 00:33:51.200
in March 2026, Japan is including carbon removal
00:33:51.200 --> 00:33:54.579
credits and the local GX cap and trade system.
00:33:54.940 --> 00:34:00.220
So the role of policy is to drive future demand
00:34:00.220 --> 00:34:03.859
for carbon dioxide removals. Beyond that, the
00:34:03.859 --> 00:34:07.559
role of policy is, of course, to make sure the
00:34:07.559 --> 00:34:11.500
infrastructure is available for what we do. in
00:34:11.500 --> 00:34:13.679
in carbon dioxide removal carbon dioxide removal
00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:16.019
needs access to energy as we discussed before
00:34:16.019 --> 00:34:19.219
it needs access to storage sites it needs access
00:34:19.219 --> 00:34:22.980
to roads um so also there on on the infrastructure
00:34:22.980 --> 00:34:27.079
side and and on the enabling factors so to say
00:34:27.079 --> 00:34:30.000
for making sure dac or carbon dioxide removal
00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:33.619
projects are happening policy can play a catalytic
00:34:33.619 --> 00:34:37.099
and very important role Yeah, on the kind of
00:34:37.099 --> 00:34:39.039
on the flip side of that, you mentioned that,
00:34:39.039 --> 00:34:41.840
you know, the EU and the UK are making strides
00:34:41.840 --> 00:34:44.579
in the direction of integrating carbon removals
00:34:44.579 --> 00:34:47.480
and policy. Contrary to that, the US is taking
00:34:47.480 --> 00:34:50.460
steps back in that it would appear just a couple
00:34:50.460 --> 00:34:52.619
of weeks ago they revoked the endangerment finding,
00:34:52.780 --> 00:34:54.860
which is the very basis on which greenhouse gas
00:34:54.860 --> 00:34:57.179
emissions are considered a public health and
00:34:57.179 --> 00:34:59.579
welfare hazard. How do you believe this will
00:34:59.579 --> 00:35:01.760
affect CDR in the United States moving forward?
00:35:02.250 --> 00:35:05.050
Well, the US remains to be an important player
00:35:05.050 --> 00:35:08.170
in carbon capture and carbon removal. And a lot
00:35:08.170 --> 00:35:10.849
is happening there. Like a lot on carbon capture
00:35:10.849 --> 00:35:15.150
is happening. Most of the carbon removal startups
00:35:15.150 --> 00:35:18.090
that are working globally and most of the academic
00:35:18.090 --> 00:35:20.750
research is also happening in the US. So the
00:35:20.750 --> 00:35:23.550
US has been and will continue to be an important
00:35:23.550 --> 00:35:25.469
player in carbon capture and carbon removal.
00:35:25.690 --> 00:35:29.269
However, it's not the only player. And we see...
00:35:29.820 --> 00:35:32.659
encouraging policy momentum in other parts of
00:35:32.659 --> 00:35:35.960
the world. So we see that in the UK, we see that
00:35:35.960 --> 00:35:39.280
in Europe, we see that in Japan, in Singapore,
00:35:39.539 --> 00:35:43.079
in China, in the Middle East, we see a lot. So
00:35:43.079 --> 00:35:45.860
on the policy side, we see a lot of activity
00:35:45.860 --> 00:35:51.300
in carbon removal outside the US. And there's
00:35:51.300 --> 00:35:54.099
not a one -size -fits -all policy activity. It
00:35:54.099 --> 00:35:57.159
looks a bit different in each of the geographies.
00:35:57.480 --> 00:36:00.079
that I just mentioned, but all of them in common,
00:36:00.239 --> 00:36:03.440
they have that they will drive future growth
00:36:03.440 --> 00:36:06.440
for carbon dioxide removal. Now that's one dimension,
00:36:06.659 --> 00:36:10.099
the policy dimension. Another dimension is the
00:36:10.099 --> 00:36:13.179
project landscape and actually which countries
00:36:13.179 --> 00:36:16.780
Climeworks is acting in. And several years ago,
00:36:16.920 --> 00:36:20.320
it's more than three years ago, we decided that
00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:24.340
we want to have a global project landscape. Why?
00:36:24.840 --> 00:36:28.039
to essentially be diversified and risk -hatched
00:36:28.039 --> 00:36:32.320
because sometimes unexpected things are happening
00:36:32.320 --> 00:36:35.780
that are standing in the way of your scale -up
00:36:35.780 --> 00:36:38.739
roadmap. So what we decided several years ago
00:36:38.739 --> 00:36:41.480
is that we are developing projects in the United
00:36:41.480 --> 00:36:45.940
States, in Canada, in the UK, in Norway, in the
00:36:45.940 --> 00:36:47.760
Middle East, concretely in the Kingdom of Saudi
00:36:47.760 --> 00:36:50.869
Arabia, and in Kenya. And now to your question
00:36:50.869 --> 00:36:54.130
about the US, whatever the outcome of policy
00:36:54.130 --> 00:36:58.150
directions are in the United States, we are prepared
00:36:58.150 --> 00:37:01.590
with a global landscape of projects that we have
00:37:01.590 --> 00:37:04.469
been building. So for example, mid last year,
00:37:04.550 --> 00:37:06.409
we shipped a pilot plant to the kingdom of Saudi
00:37:06.409 --> 00:37:08.869
Arabia. We just signed an agreement with the
00:37:08.869 --> 00:37:11.210
Royal Commission of Jubail and Jambu, which is
00:37:11.210 --> 00:37:13.769
the largest industrial cluster worldwide. It's
00:37:13.769 --> 00:37:16.289
a very fascinating, for an engineer, it's a very
00:37:16.289 --> 00:37:19.510
fascinating place to be and see. what has been
00:37:19.510 --> 00:37:22.309
grown from scratch. And that place can be a platform
00:37:22.309 --> 00:37:26.769
for our next plant. We just launched a new headquarter
00:37:26.769 --> 00:37:29.969
in Canada, in Alberta. We believe Alberta is
00:37:29.969 --> 00:37:33.150
an excellent place to develop carbon dioxide
00:37:33.150 --> 00:37:36.510
removal projects because of the energy infrastructure,
00:37:36.789 --> 00:37:39.110
but also the carbon management infrastructure
00:37:39.110 --> 00:37:42.389
that's already in place and essentially the industrial
00:37:42.389 --> 00:37:45.309
backbone. Like if you're flying to Calgary, you're
00:37:45.309 --> 00:37:47.250
sitting in an airplane with a bunch of engineers.
00:37:47.929 --> 00:37:50.090
So you're already, while traveling there, you
00:37:50.090 --> 00:37:52.750
get the impression you're flying to the right
00:37:52.750 --> 00:37:56.110
place. And we have a project in the UK which
00:37:56.110 --> 00:37:58.769
moved to the next stage as the only DAC project
00:37:58.769 --> 00:38:01.789
the government is talking to. So there are very
00:38:01.789 --> 00:38:04.809
promising sites on the project landscape outside
00:38:04.809 --> 00:38:07.849
the United States where we currently see a lot
00:38:07.849 --> 00:38:11.750
of traction. So last but not least, Christoph,
00:38:11.809 --> 00:38:13.789
I'd like to ask you one final question for today.
00:38:13.869 --> 00:38:17.429
And that is what exciting new developments Climeworks
00:38:17.429 --> 00:38:19.530
has lined up for the upcoming weeks and months,
00:38:19.590 --> 00:38:21.449
perhaps. Is there anything that you can hint
00:38:21.449 --> 00:38:24.269
at right now? Well, at the heart of what we do,
00:38:24.349 --> 00:38:26.730
like if we go back to the basics, at the heart
00:38:26.730 --> 00:38:30.469
of what we do is we are developing the lowest
00:38:30.469 --> 00:38:34.070
cost technology to remove CO2 from deer, but
00:38:34.070 --> 00:38:38.059
we are also developing the market. I admire very
00:38:38.059 --> 00:38:41.880
much what is being done in other fields of the
00:38:41.880 --> 00:38:44.460
energy transition topic. But sometimes we are...
00:38:44.800 --> 00:38:47.099
You know, if you look at fusion technology or
00:38:47.099 --> 00:38:49.519
electric cars, sometimes we think, oh, you know,
00:38:49.579 --> 00:38:51.519
it's just the tech challenge because the market
00:38:51.519 --> 00:38:53.500
for cars is there or the market for electricity
00:38:53.500 --> 00:38:55.780
is there. That's not the case for carbon removal.
00:38:55.860 --> 00:38:58.000
The market for carbon removal is emerging and
00:38:58.000 --> 00:38:59.760
we're at the forefront of developing it. Now,
00:38:59.780 --> 00:39:02.960
and exactly that is what's ahead of us is we
00:39:02.960 --> 00:39:05.860
have been on the market side. We have been growing
00:39:05.860 --> 00:39:10.079
a 2x, 3x year over year in our order intake and
00:39:10.079 --> 00:39:13.130
our revenue. And we want to continue to do that.
00:39:13.230 --> 00:39:16.829
We want to continue to deliver 100 % of the client
00:39:16.829 --> 00:39:20.090
promises to make sure that carbon removal moves
00:39:20.090 --> 00:39:23.110
from a promise to a real asset that is delivered
00:39:23.110 --> 00:39:25.630
and that that's managed like an asset. And so
00:39:25.630 --> 00:39:29.110
we continue our commercial activities. We continue
00:39:29.110 --> 00:39:31.590
to build portfolios. And on the technology side,
00:39:31.829 --> 00:39:34.750
I mentioned a lot of highlights like the substantially
00:39:34.750 --> 00:39:37.530
improved filter material, the significantly reduced
00:39:37.530 --> 00:39:40.409
energy consumption, and also the higher throughput
00:39:40.409 --> 00:39:43.710
of the plant. And actually we are, all of this,
00:39:43.889 --> 00:39:47.079
we are combining. in a demonstration plant to
00:39:47.079 --> 00:39:50.900
again show that in a real dimension of a commercial
00:39:50.900 --> 00:39:53.719
plant. And all of that will happen in the context
00:39:53.719 --> 00:39:58.099
of the next 12 to 24 months. And those will be
00:39:58.099 --> 00:40:00.480
very, very important stepping zones, so to say,
00:40:00.599 --> 00:40:03.500
in further scaling our technology. And that makes
00:40:03.500 --> 00:40:06.219
us very excited. Like the team is super excited
00:40:06.219 --> 00:40:09.380
to work on that. Jan and I are very excited to
00:40:09.380 --> 00:40:12.400
work on those outcomes. Yeah, I think it'll be
00:40:12.400 --> 00:40:15.039
a very important platform to bring this to commercial
00:40:15.039 --> 00:40:17.780
scale and to a profitable application by end
00:40:17.780 --> 00:40:20.340
of this decade. It does sound very exciting indeed.
00:40:20.460 --> 00:40:23.039
I'm very excited now that you told us about it.
00:40:23.119 --> 00:40:24.880
And I'm pretty sure most of our listeners are
00:40:24.880 --> 00:40:27.460
as well. Christoph, thank you so, so much for
00:40:27.460 --> 00:40:29.239
being here today. I really, really enjoyed speaking
00:40:29.239 --> 00:40:32.460
with you. I learned a lot today and I greatly
00:40:32.460 --> 00:40:34.460
appreciate you making the time for this. And
00:40:34.460 --> 00:40:37.079
of course, all the wonderful work you guys do
00:40:37.079 --> 00:40:39.460
at Climeworks. Thank you so much. Thank you for
00:40:39.460 --> 00:40:41.880
having me. If you enjoyed this episode of the
00:40:41.880 --> 00:40:43.579
Carbon Stations podcast and would like to hear
00:40:43.579 --> 00:40:45.500
more conversations like this, please be sure
00:40:45.500 --> 00:40:47.340
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