Genesis 17 Discussion

WEBVTT
00:00:10.720 --> 00:00:12.560
And welcome back to a chapter a day.
00:00:12.800 --> 00:00:13.759
Keeps the devil away.
00:00:13.919 --> 00:00:14.880
I'm Pastor Pleck.
00:00:14.960 --> 00:00:17.519
And joining me in studio is none other than Cody Sparks.
00:00:17.760 --> 00:00:18.239
Still here.
00:00:18.399 --> 00:00:21.280
Muhammad Ali and Brianna Mota.
00:00:21.600 --> 00:00:21.920
Hello.
00:00:22.079 --> 00:00:24.079
And we're talking Genesis 17 today.
00:00:24.480 --> 00:00:28.160
Kind of a fun time of talking about penises and foreskins.
00:00:28.399 --> 00:00:31.679
Didn't think that would be an exciting moment of the Bible.
00:00:32.159 --> 00:00:33.920
But we're talking about circumcision.
00:00:34.000 --> 00:00:38.560
And this is how God comes to Abram and says, Hey, I'm no longer going to call you Abram.
00:00:38.719 --> 00:00:40.560
That means father of a nation.
00:00:40.799 --> 00:00:42.159
Abra is father.
00:00:42.320 --> 00:00:45.840
Am is a people or nation, father of a nation, and Abraham.
00:00:46.159 --> 00:00:48.640
It goes to the plural form of Am, which is Ham.
00:00:48.960 --> 00:00:51.359
And so it's a father of nations.
00:00:51.679 --> 00:00:53.200
And that wild father of nations.
00:00:53.280 --> 00:00:56.240
So that is how the little name change happens here.
00:00:56.479 --> 00:01:03.039
And then he says, to show that the who the people are of that had this covenant with you, circumcise them.
00:01:03.200 --> 00:01:04.159
And so he does.
00:01:04.400 --> 00:01:06.159
Real quick though, on that.
00:01:06.400 --> 00:01:08.159
So he's 99 here.
00:01:09.120 --> 00:01:10.959
And that's some wrinkles.
00:01:11.359 --> 00:01:11.680
Yeah.
00:01:11.840 --> 00:01:17.840
But and then you're like, okay, gotta, you know, do a little cut, cut, snippy snip.
00:01:17.920 --> 00:01:26.719
I mean, who who's the guy that's like, you know, this is where you go the old folks home, and an old man comes to you and he's like, hey, check it out.
00:01:26.879 --> 00:01:29.920
Um, can you cut off the foreskin, please?
00:01:30.319 --> 00:01:32.959
And you'd be like, I didn't sign up for this.
00:01:33.120 --> 00:01:34.879
You know, I don't know.
00:01:34.959 --> 00:01:38.959
I mean, that is it's so wild that it can only be from God.
00:01:41.519 --> 00:01:42.000
Anyways.
00:01:43.599 --> 00:01:52.000
I'm just picturing him going to all of the men that didn't hear from God and telling them, you need to drop your pants.
00:01:52.079 --> 00:01:55.920
I need to cut off your foreskin or your cut off from the people.
00:01:56.159 --> 00:01:56.400
Yeah.
00:01:56.640 --> 00:02:01.439
And just how like I don't know, like, what do you do with that?
00:02:01.519 --> 00:02:04.400
Like, I mean, you either do it or you leave.
00:02:04.640 --> 00:02:05.040
Yep.
00:02:05.280 --> 00:02:08.159
I mean, talk about barrier of entry of religion right here.
00:02:08.560 --> 00:02:08.960
Yep.
00:02:09.439 --> 00:02:15.599
It would have been funny if if uh the Isaac's birth promise would have been first.
00:02:15.759 --> 00:02:16.080
Yeah.
00:02:16.319 --> 00:02:21.919
Because it's like Abraham laughs at God, and then God goes, Here's the sign of the covenant, by the way.
00:02:22.159 --> 00:02:24.080
Not so funny anymore, huh?
00:02:28.560 --> 00:02:29.439
Now we're laughing.
00:02:29.520 --> 00:02:29.680
All right.
00:02:29.759 --> 00:02:30.639
You want you want to laugh?
00:02:30.719 --> 00:02:31.120
Here you go.
00:02:31.199 --> 00:02:32.479
Yeah, that's funny.
00:02:32.879 --> 00:02:43.680
Um, yeah, okay, so it's wild to me, and it makes sense that the foreskin being cut off is the sign of the covenant.
00:02:43.840 --> 00:02:44.639
Yeah, you gotta be different.
00:02:44.800 --> 00:02:50.000
You gotta be different, one, but it's it's through his offspring that the covenant is formed.
00:02:50.080 --> 00:02:56.800
So through the penis is where you know the sperm comes, and so that's like the organ that's delivering the promise.
00:02:56.879 --> 00:02:58.240
Yep, which is wild.
00:02:58.400 --> 00:03:02.319
Like, you know, that's wild.
00:03:02.479 --> 00:03:04.800
I I don't care what culture you come from.
00:03:04.879 --> 00:03:07.280
Yeah, I think that's weird across the board.
00:03:07.439 --> 00:03:08.000
Yeah.
00:03:08.240 --> 00:03:10.000
Um yeah.
00:03:10.960 --> 00:03:12.400
Why eight days?
00:03:13.520 --> 00:03:19.039
Maybe that's on the eighth day, it's when the child's healthy enough to have a whack at the penis, I guess.
00:03:19.120 --> 00:03:19.759
I don't know.
00:03:20.080 --> 00:03:22.400
I mean, nowadays they do it within the first 24 hours.
00:03:22.639 --> 00:03:22.800
Right.
00:03:22.960 --> 00:03:23.759
I think they yeah.
00:03:24.080 --> 00:03:27.599
Yeah, but technology they have different tools.
00:03:28.479 --> 00:03:29.919
Did you uh circumcise your son?
00:03:30.319 --> 00:03:30.560
Yeah.
00:03:30.719 --> 00:03:31.840
Yeah, so do we.
00:03:32.159 --> 00:03:37.759
Um I used to, you know, we didn't want an anteater at the in the in the shower.
00:03:42.240 --> 00:03:44.639
So, you know, I mean it just made sense.
00:03:45.280 --> 00:03:47.919
But you know, it's totally there's freedom on circumcision.
00:03:48.080 --> 00:03:50.800
You can circumcise, not circumcise, you know, like you can't.
00:03:51.039 --> 00:03:52.879
Put that part in the membership class, dude.
00:03:53.120 --> 00:03:54.240
It's part of the covenant.
00:03:54.560 --> 00:03:55.680
No anteaters around here.
00:03:55.759 --> 00:03:58.400
Yeah, you step in over here for a quick tick.
00:03:58.639 --> 00:03:59.199
Yeah, yeah.
00:03:59.280 --> 00:04:11.520
I mean, I mean, talk about like that's like with for anybody following the promises of God, it was a huge commitment to become a Jewish person or uh Israelite.
00:04:11.759 --> 00:04:14.479
For everyone that doesn't want to get baptized, come on, dude.
00:04:14.639 --> 00:04:16.240
Yeah, we ain't doing nothing around here.
00:04:16.399 --> 00:04:17.439
Yeah, yeah, seriously.
00:04:17.680 --> 00:04:18.720
Low berry ventry.
00:04:18.959 --> 00:04:19.279
Okay.
00:04:19.519 --> 00:04:20.240
Um, yeah.
00:04:20.639 --> 00:04:25.759
So for me, I I think this is like God has given you so much.
00:04:26.720 --> 00:04:32.079
The thing he's asking for you is for your body, your life to be a symbol.
00:04:32.240 --> 00:04:32.639
Yeah.
00:04:32.800 --> 00:04:38.319
Uh, and I'm really grateful that that symbol for me can be baptism and then also the Lord's Supper.
00:04:38.399 --> 00:04:38.639
Yep.
00:04:38.720 --> 00:04:42.959
Um, and and that is a witness to this day that I am a part of the family of God.
00:04:43.120 --> 00:04:45.040
And we try and make that pretty clear on a Sunday.
00:04:45.120 --> 00:04:50.560
If you're not part of the family of God, just witness and observe those who are Christians uh and what they do.
00:04:50.800 --> 00:04:58.000
So I that to me is like I should live my life as a witness in who I am uh for Christ.
00:04:58.160 --> 00:04:59.040
Bree, what about you?
00:04:59.120 --> 00:05:01.120
Any any application point here?
00:05:02.079 --> 00:05:05.279
Um, I'm glad I wasn't a dude during this time.
00:05:05.519 --> 00:05:06.240
Yeah, straight up.
00:05:06.399 --> 00:05:06.879
And yeah, I do.
00:05:07.279 --> 00:05:08.560
Yeah, but you gotta have babies.
00:05:09.759 --> 00:05:10.720
Yeah, I guess.
00:05:10.879 --> 00:05:11.199
Yeah.
00:05:11.519 --> 00:05:12.480
That's pretty great though.
00:05:12.720 --> 00:05:13.439
It is great.
00:05:13.600 --> 00:05:14.800
It's very rewarding.
00:05:15.040 --> 00:05:15.920
Yeah, yeah.
00:05:16.160 --> 00:05:25.519
Um, I like how you said, like, yeah, we're not no one's required to get circumcised now, but we are required that we are we carry the image of God.
00:05:25.680 --> 00:05:25.839
Right.
00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:30.480
And our bodies are, you know, supposed to reflect him.
00:05:30.879 --> 00:05:31.199
Yeah.
00:05:31.519 --> 00:05:32.319
Um, yeah.
00:05:32.639 --> 00:05:34.319
Well, what what do you what do you get from this?
00:05:34.399 --> 00:05:34.639
I don't know.
00:05:37.040 --> 00:05:49.199
Well, my mind goes to circumcised hearts in the New Testament, yes, which physically isn't as painful, but I feel like spiritually is more demanding.
00:05:49.439 --> 00:05:49.680
Right.
00:05:50.079 --> 00:05:54.399
Because here, like you're part of the covenant people as long as you do this thing.
00:05:54.480 --> 00:05:54.879
Yeah.
00:05:55.040 --> 00:06:00.959
But to have a circumcised heart, right, uh that's not just on the outside.
00:06:01.279 --> 00:06:05.519
You have to have God do something in you on the inside.
00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:09.360
Um, and so to me, if anything, it's even more difficult.
00:06:09.920 --> 00:06:11.279
So that's why you need the Holy Spirit.
00:06:11.439 --> 00:06:11.759
I love it.
00:06:11.839 --> 00:06:28.319
Uh the random the random thought too is this just I wonder if um if you're a paedo-baptist uh baptizing kids or babies, um if if you could ever use this argument for like, well, to enter into the covenant that God left for Abraham, like it was babies.
00:06:28.480 --> 00:06:28.720
Right.
00:06:28.959 --> 00:06:30.160
That is that is their argument.
00:06:30.480 --> 00:06:37.199
So obviously the the covenant with followers of Jesus today, like God would want us to sprinkle our baby, whatever.
00:06:37.279 --> 00:06:37.839
That's a random thought.
00:06:37.920 --> 00:06:38.480
I've never thought about that.
00:06:38.639 --> 00:06:40.000
Yeah, I think that that's a primary argument.
00:06:40.240 --> 00:06:40.560
You've heard that?
00:06:40.639 --> 00:06:40.879
Oh yeah.
00:06:40.959 --> 00:06:41.199
Oh really?
00:06:41.360 --> 00:06:41.600
Oh yeah.
00:06:42.720 --> 00:06:42.959
Oh man.
00:06:43.360 --> 00:06:49.439
I've always heard the jailer, his family was baptized, and they assume that you have they're like, oh, you can assume that they have infants.
00:06:49.519 --> 00:06:50.399
I'm like, there's a lot of families.
00:06:50.879 --> 00:06:51.519
Secondary argument.
00:06:51.759 --> 00:06:57.439
The primary argument is arguments like this is that at eight days old, the Jew in the Mosaic covenant, at least.
00:06:57.680 --> 00:07:06.079
Um and I guess you could say here in the Abrahamic covenant is that uh the the covenant symbol was when they were right here when he was eight days old.
00:07:06.160 --> 00:07:08.079
And so that's why babies should be baptized.
00:07:08.319 --> 00:07:10.240
But then why then you should be baptized babies eight days?
00:07:10.399 --> 00:07:11.199
No, that I don't think that's a good idea.
00:07:11.439 --> 00:07:15.199
Yeah, that's a whole disagree with it, but I was it just made my mind go there.
00:07:15.439 --> 00:07:15.519
Right.
00:07:15.600 --> 00:07:20.480
But that's where most um paedo-baptists uh go um on that.
00:07:20.639 --> 00:07:37.920
So yeah, yeah, it is that's the primary the secondary argument is like the household was baptized, so therefore, but a household you could have an eight-year-old in the house, you know, like um if if my if my household was baptized, everybody in my household um could easily make a confession of faith.
00:07:38.000 --> 00:07:38.160
Yeah.
00:07:38.319 --> 00:07:40.240
Um, because my youngest is five.
00:07:40.480 --> 00:07:42.560
Um what about you, Cody?
00:07:43.519 --> 00:07:49.040
This is where God's covenant and promises is confirmed.
00:07:49.519 --> 00:07:57.439
And I like where they basically get new names and a fresh start.
00:07:57.680 --> 00:07:58.240
Oh, nice.
00:07:58.480 --> 00:08:05.199
And kind of like when we decide to accept Jesus, we turn that leaf and we start fresh.
00:08:05.519 --> 00:08:11.519
You're a new creation, and you're those pro you get the blessings of Abraham on your life when you become a follower of Jesus.
00:08:11.839 --> 00:08:17.279
So then we turn that leaf over and we get a fresh start and then move forward.
00:08:17.360 --> 00:08:20.480
And you know, all that's welcome to us.
00:08:20.800 --> 00:08:30.959
Hey, I you know what I really man, what you just said was awesome because here they do get so they had a covenant of all these promises, and it wasn't on his body.
00:08:31.120 --> 00:08:31.439
Right.
00:08:31.839 --> 00:08:35.440
And that was back in chapter uh 15, right?
00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:41.519
It was like the smoking fire pot goes through, and now he's saying, I don't want you to forget.
00:08:42.000 --> 00:08:49.679
So the next time you stick your penis in somebody, I want you to look down at it and see that this is the symbol.
00:08:49.919 --> 00:09:03.279
I honestly I think it was a way to remember whenever you're in the heat of the moment and someone says, Hey, stick your penis in this woman, and he's like, No, the promise is for Sarah, and I need to have sex with her.
00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:03.519
Yeah.
00:09:03.840 --> 00:09:11.840
Because I can imagine, and I, you know, once you get to 100, I'm not sure how much sex you're having, but maybe, you know, different time, different day.
00:09:11.919 --> 00:09:16.000
I don't I don't know how that all works uh back then, but or even now, honestly.
00:09:16.159 --> 00:09:19.519
Uh, but like I that might have been a little bit harder.
00:09:19.600 --> 00:09:21.919
And so like the intentionality with that, yeah.
00:09:22.080 --> 00:09:26.639
Um well, also like once you get snipped, how long do you wait till you're back in the game, you know?
00:09:27.039 --> 00:09:31.120
Not snipped as in circum or uh you know vasectomy.
00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:33.840
Yeah, vasectomy, but and this is not a vasectomy.
00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:35.679
This is like a I mean, you gotta let that heal.
00:09:36.000 --> 00:09:36.240
Oh, yeah.
00:09:36.399 --> 00:09:37.759
Yeah, and it's not like you're a hundred.
00:09:38.080 --> 00:09:40.399
You're yeah, so it's not like you got time.
00:09:40.480 --> 00:09:41.200
I I don't know.
00:09:41.279 --> 00:09:44.559
Like, I I I mean, um, yeah, that's wild.
00:09:44.720 --> 00:09:51.919
So I do, but I do think he at this time, every time he had sex, he was to think about the covenant.
00:09:52.000 --> 00:09:52.240
Yeah.
00:09:52.480 --> 00:10:00.159
And so perhaps his disobedience led to a sign that was on his body that every time he'd have sex, he would have to remember.
00:10:00.399 --> 00:10:05.440
And so therefore, that's been passed down to all of us so that maybe we think every time we have sex, we need to remember something.
00:10:05.600 --> 00:10:09.440
I don't know, I don't know if that's please don't use that for a uh sex can wait spill.
00:10:09.679 --> 00:10:10.240
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:10:10.480 --> 00:10:14.559
But but I but I but do but I think there's something about that that's wild.
00:10:14.639 --> 00:10:22.879
I think sometimes God puts scars in our lives so we remember the promises of him and like what he's told us in the past, don't go that route again.
00:10:23.039 --> 00:10:25.039
And I think that's really powerful right now.
00:10:25.120 --> 00:10:30.399
Is I just this that came to me is like, here is Abraham, he's got to be focused on his wife.
00:10:30.480 --> 00:10:34.000
He said the promise is coming through Sarah, so that means he has to have sex with Sarah.
00:10:34.159 --> 00:10:38.960
And every time he doesn't have sex with Sarah, it's almost disobedience because it has to come through Sarah.
00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:43.039
It's kind of like where you tell a kid, hey, don't touch that stove, it's hot.
00:10:43.200 --> 00:10:44.879
Don't touch that stove, it's hot.
00:10:45.200 --> 00:10:48.720
And then they touch the stove because they don't know and they get burned.
00:10:49.519 --> 00:10:52.559
Have you ever thought about a kid gets a scar from that burn?
00:10:52.639 --> 00:10:56.799
And every time he looks at that scar, he's like, I don't need to touch the stove.
00:10:57.039 --> 00:10:57.120
Right.
00:10:57.440 --> 00:11:05.919
So it's looking at going, hey, this reminds me of God's promises of and and and his love for me, really.
00:11:06.240 --> 00:11:17.519
So I guess for me, the the big application that I think we can all is what scar um in your life is a reminder of God's promise that you need to trust him and not go your own way.
00:11:18.399 --> 00:11:18.799
Nice.
00:11:18.879 --> 00:11:19.519
Yeah, that's good.
00:11:19.679 --> 00:11:20.480
I think we'll end it there.
00:11:20.639 --> 00:11:21.919
Hey, thanks so much for watching.
00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:24.480
Uh, we'll see you tomorrow for a chapter of that.