#40 - Why We Squeeze Ourselves to Fit In, Starting With Our Feet

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Welcome to Being Different Together, the podcast for people who want to make the world a better place, but no, they can't do it alone.
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I'm Dr.
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Kelly Brady, acupuncturist, psychotherapist, and certified dialogue therapist.
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And I'm Nissa Hanger, massage therapist, aromatherapist, coach, and real dialogue specialist.
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Together we'll explore how conversations can improve relationships, make work more joyful, and spark healing for ourselves and our communities.
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And listen, we don't shy away from the hard conversations.
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In fact, we welcome them.
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This isn't about being right.
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It's about being different.
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Together.
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Hello, hello.
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Welcome back to episode number 40 of Being Different.
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Together.
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Why were you looking so weirdly off in the distance?
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I was examining the pothos that is growing on the kitchen windowsill.
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Oh.
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The the window that's above the sink.
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It just looks really cool.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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It's my propagation station.
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Yeah, it looks kind of like a living, like it looks like a humanoid almost.
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It's got arms.
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It's funny because we're gonna we're talking about the body and everything.
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Yeah.
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It's got a little central body and it's got these little wibbly arms.
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He's sort of like we so yeah, this is uh episode that's dovetailing on um episode number 39.
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Yeah.
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On trauma in the body and bioenergetics and whatnot.
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And we we thought, I thought it might be nice to just go through the body.
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Yeah.
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I've always also always kind of wanted a reference point where like maybe I have a client that's having an issue wherever, and I could say, hey, listen, we did a whole podcast episode.
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Yeah, go listen to number 40 about feet.
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Yes.
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And it just so happens that there's is it assonance or alliteration?
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Oh, 40 and feet?
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Yeah.
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It's an alliteration, right?
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Interesting.
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Yeah.
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Mm-hmm.
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Mm-hmm.
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Interesting.
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So yeah, I figured we would start with start with the feet and the the symbols of the feet.
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And yeah, that sounds great.
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And I just feel like we will Do you work on people who have a lot of um foot pain?
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Is that show up in your office a lot?
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For sure, for sure.
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I mean it's a plantar fasciitis.
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Mm-hmm.
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Plantar fasciitis, pretty common.
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Um would you say that's your most common complaint about the feet?
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I mean, I think that I I I think generalized foot pain also comes up like without a diagnosis, sort of a thing.
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Um achy feet.
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Tired feet.
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The classic woman over 40 with the achy feet.
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It's classic because you see it a lot.
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For me, it's classic.
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I've I've seen that as a repeated pattern.
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Women over 40 tend to have achy feet in the morning.
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In the morning, yes.
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And I'm particularly attuned to that because that's now how I spend my mornings.
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You have a little achy feet.
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Sometimes it's I've started to have it and get and I'm going, oh, this is what they've been talking about.
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Okay, so I'm just gonna allow myself to free associate with various sayings that are about the feet through the episode because I just think it's fun.
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A.
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Yes, yes, yes.
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And B, it says something about the topic also.
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So remember the old saying, My dogs are barking.
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I have no idea what you're talking about.
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It's about having sore feet.
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My dogs are barking.
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People refer to their feet as dogs.
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Really?
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And then they say my dogs are barking.
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And it's just like an old from the s south, sounding southern saying, My dogs are barking.
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I don't know.
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I mean, I just think it's so funny because.
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Oh, now we've animalized.
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Where else in our body do we animalise it?
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Oh god, I can't I can't be put on the spot like that.
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It's too early.
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I mean, I just I don't think that we do, but I mean, maybe maybe we do.
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I guess the the monkey on your back would be another.
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Um but the the idea of Lionhearted.
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Ooh, like we'll have to do a whole animal episode of it.
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I mean, I you know, we're just going with it now.
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I don't want to get too distracted with other parts of the body.
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I want to stay focused on.
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No, the idea of calling them dogs, like because they are these things that touch the ground, people can think that feet are like kind of disgusting.
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Yeah, some people think that feet are dirty.
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We do Thassage, and in time massage, it's we say it's a practice of two hands and two feet.
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So we use both hands and and both feet in Thai massage.
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I've had some clients that don't want you to touch them with your feet.
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Totally.
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And um, I mean, my feet are pretty, I mean, I often wear little socks when I'm working on people.
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Yeah, no, me too.
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But um, yeah, I mean, yes.
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I I remember I went to the our Thai massage training place, the Shawla, one time with my my brother Timmy.
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Oh yeah.
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And um Ariela, our teacher, gave Timmy a Thai massage, and I was so excited for him to have a Thai massage because he had never had one before.
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And he kind of from the guru.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So he kind of comes stumbling out of the shala, you know, looking sort of dazed and whipped about as you do after you've had your first time massage.
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I'm like, oh dude, you know, like what was that like?
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And he goes, She put her foot in my armpit.
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That was his response.
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Yeah, I mean, I think he didn't expect her to touch his body with her feet in the in those ways.
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Yep.
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Yep, yeah, no, uh we we can really other feet, I think.
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Oh yeah in a in a way that besides like I don't know, maybe poop or something, that we we don't do that with any other part of our body quite the same way.
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In terms of the dirtiness.
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Yeah, totally.
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Totally.
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Don't put your feet on me, you know.
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Dirty, stinky feet.
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Yeah.
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Oh my god.
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Oh, feet can't be pretty stinky.
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I mean I Timmy didn't used to do this to me, but my my other half-brother Michael, when I was a little kid, I mean, you know older brothers.
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I don't know, but I've heard rumors.
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He used to just take his dirty sweat socks from um from Jim.
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And like we wore those long tube socks in the 70s, you know.
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I already pictured it.
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And and so he would take his dirty sweat socks and he would like pin me down and put put his socks in my face.
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Oh no.
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He'd be like, dirty socks, dirty socks, dirty socks.
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Oh it's awful.
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It was it was awful.
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Man, couldn't he?
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His socks smelled terrible.
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Yeah, I'm thinking about the age difference between you all and um, yeah, he probably would have been at the height of like adolescence.
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Oh man, his socks smelled awful.
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You know, my mom there was a period of time that my mom made me leave my shoes outside.
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Oh yeah, remember when it was there was a lot of odor eaters in use.
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The shoes went in the shoes went in the freezer.
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There's all the purpose powder down in there.
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Yeah.
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Remember when it was like more prevalent to see people wearing shoes without socks?
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This was kind of an 80s thing.
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Loafers without socks, dock fighters, yeah, boat shoes.
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Oh, I'm the I kind of am a little grossed out about that.
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Yeah.
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And I mean, man, those those shoes would smell bad.
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Oh yeah.
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Those shoes got stinky.
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So there is an element, there's lots of sweat glands on the bottom of the field.
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It can be a little bit gross.
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The other thing is they do like touch the earth, and the earth is full of all kinds of interesting things.
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It is.
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It's uh, you know, it's the original microbiome, it's the macrobiome.
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So it's covered in bacteria and other people's poop and trash and ditris, and you know, it's like rotting the leaves.
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And I mean, if we were to just walk around in our backyard right now barefooted, it probably wouldn't be quite I mean, we would have to really pay attention.
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Yeah.
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And our backyard, there's all kind of crazy stuff now.
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Construction debris and so our our relationship, I think, as humans is is really um like the first I think about the first shoe, the first idea that we should cover the feet.
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Um I think about the Aborigines and in uh particularly in like Australia, and they still don't wear shoes, right?
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And you look at the bottom of their feet and the way that their feet are shaped versus those of us who have been taught to squeeze our feet into shoes and and then the whole history of shoes is really fascinating to me.
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I don't I don't want to get too too I don't want to go too far afield.
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But this whole thing about uh shoes become beginning as a way to cover the feet, but then ultimately becoming like kind of status symbols.
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Yeah, a symbol of class.
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A symbol of class.
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And maybe even civility.
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Absolutely.
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And um like what's beautiful and what's not also gets associated with the feet.
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So the feet are fetishized, they're eroticized.
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So we try to make them smaller.
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Right.
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I mean, it used to be in in culture.
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I I was just watching Antiques Roadshow the other night.
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You were?
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Yeah, it was actually.
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Oh, it was?
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Yeah, when I was cooking dinner.
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I was watching Antiques before I got on PBS.
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Oh my god, I got a PBS subscription.
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That's so good.
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So I've been watching PBS because we don't have cable TV, right?
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So I got a little subscription to PBS.
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I'm loving it.
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I was watching Antiques Roadshow, and there was this woman who found a um like a an old Budweiser poster from the 1890s.
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Whoa.
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And you could tell it was an original because you know it had the logo very clearly, and she's holding this bottle of beer that has like the metal cap that goes over the top to keep it pressurized, remember?
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It was from way back then.
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But she's wearing this, and it's funny to look at the standards of beauty because her face is very round, which right now a round face is not a standard of beauty.
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Right.
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Um if you think about a standard of beauty, you think maybe Angelina Jolie, Charlize Therone.
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Um they have these very angular Gweneth Paltro.
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Gweneth Paltro.
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Very angular, very prominent jawbones, very thin.
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So she has this round face, she's very full kind of looking like Betty Boop, but totally more like Betty Boop, soft curly hair.
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This long dress that's kind of lacy, feet completely covered, but she's just gently lifting the right side of her skirt to show her ankle.
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Yeah.
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And like showing your ankle.
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Oh, totally.
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That ankle bone.
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Mm-hmm.
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And they were talking about that.
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Just that's just the difference between in that.
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But I was thinking about the erotication of the feet and the way that we keep the feet covered and shoes being a symbol of class.
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There's just there's a lot to unpack around feet, I think.
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Um so well, let's start with like maybe the most um let's go with low-hanging primary first the relation that feet are what connect us to the ground.
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Feet are what connect us to the earth.
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And I know we were talking about like even just thinking about the shapes of feet.
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And if you're a client of mine or you become a client of mine, there is a especially if you have foot, knee, low back pain in particular, we may or may not have a conversation about your shoes.
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You're gonna have the conversation I'm telling you right now.
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And I may or may not.
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All of your clients listening to this podcast are cracking up because you you're passionate.
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I am about shoes and about feet and about your position and your posture and how and how that works.
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Well it sets up the foundation.
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It's the primary foundation for your body.
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And if we're gonna talk, you know, a little bit more, I don't know.
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It's also about how you orient to the world, I think, a lot of ways.
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The relationship of the relationship between you and your feet, and then the relationship between your feet and the crown.
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You know, how much space I have this one client who is on board with like making sure she has good shoes and she's got some some some foot pain and had brought some shoes in the other day.
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These are good, right?
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And you know, good is relative.
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I mean, it really just matters what you know what what's important to you.
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But I was like you and I both have pretty strong experiential opinions about what we think is a good shoe.
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Well, and the big thing that I said, I was like, listen, I don't think the toe box is as wide as your feet need.
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So the toe box is what it sounds like.
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It's the the tip of the shoe.
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Most shoes that are manufactured now, now this is slowly starting to change.
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You can find more and more shoes with wider toe boxes, but the sort of overarching style for I don't even know how long.
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I think it would probably go back a couple hundred years, is these pointy-toed shoes.
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And when you think about the Europeans versus the natives in whatever place they were going and colonizing, um, the Europeans would have more pointy-toed shoes.
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The the natives would either have, I don't know, some sort of makeshift sandals, which can be very wide.
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Like horizontally, or nothing or moccasins, a moccasin type shoe.
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Exactly.
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Exactly.
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And so there's sort of as we've become more civilized, we've tr tried to put our feet into smaller and smaller things.
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Yeah.
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If you think about footbinding in the Chinese culture and all those years of and then the high heels of our culture today.
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You know, there were years that I said, Man, high heels, they just keep me in business.
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That's some job security right there.
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Well well, the idea of manipulating something about yourself that is primary, like that you were born in this way, and then in order for you to fit into the culture, you have to manipulate yourself in order to fit in.
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I think literally fit in.
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And in order in the Yes, to fit in.
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That wasn't intentional?
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That's exactly right.
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No, I love it that you picked that up.
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Yeah.
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Because that's right.
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You're fitting in to fit in.
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And um, you know, I thought for the longest time that I was a size seven and a half shoe.
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First of all, I'm almost 5'10.
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And I have small feet for my height, period.
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Um, I really wear around an eight or a half or a nine at this point.
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But when I was younger, I was really I really thought I I wore a size seven and a half, and I honestly think that that's because there was a part of me that didn't want to it go up to a size eight.
00:14:31.840 --> 00:14:34.639
Like acknowledging that you're like, you a bodied morphia or something like that.
00:14:34.879 --> 00:14:40.000
It's like in my generation, acknowledging that you had larger feet was shameful.
00:14:40.399 --> 00:14:40.879
Wow.
00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:44.159
There was a whole thing about women having tiny little pretty feet.
00:14:44.480 --> 00:14:44.720
Right.
00:14:44.879 --> 00:14:48.399
Or I could see wide feet being not as large.
00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:57.039
And if like if you had to get the D size, the wide size, was like an implication that you were overweight, or that again that you weren't fitting in.
00:14:57.360 --> 00:14:57.759
Right.
00:14:57.919 --> 00:14:59.039
You weren't feminine.
00:14:59.440 --> 00:15:06.320
But then you're like literally restricting the amount of blood flow you get to the rest of your surface area.
00:15:06.559 --> 00:15:12.960
Yeah, the blood flow, the surface area through which you can connect to the actual earth that you're living on.
00:15:13.279 --> 00:15:13.919
Right.
00:15:14.240 --> 00:15:17.039
Um, what does that do to you psychologically?
00:15:17.360 --> 00:15:19.279
And that is what I find really interesting.
00:15:19.519 --> 00:15:19.759
Yeah.
00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:20.639
Yes.
00:15:21.120 --> 00:15:24.320
What do you when you think about what does it do for you psychologically?
00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:26.960
What happens when you take somebody's grounding away from them?
00:15:27.039 --> 00:15:28.399
They're very easy to control.
00:15:28.720 --> 00:15:29.279
Yes.
00:15:29.519 --> 00:15:34.559
And so I think that footbinding in China is a classic example of of you know toxic.
00:15:34.879 --> 00:15:38.639
What I would think of is, well, I don't want to use the word toxic, it's toxic.
00:15:41.919 --> 00:15:43.120
It's like people just use it all the time.
00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:44.320
I know it's a bit overuse.
00:15:44.639 --> 00:15:48.879
I'm kind of over it, but it's it's it's like this, it's it's I don't even know how to say it.
00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:51.360
It's like it just makes me i it gives me the ick.
00:15:51.679 --> 00:15:53.840
I mean, it's not I want maybe abusive.
00:15:54.159 --> 00:15:54.799
Yeah.
00:15:56.240 --> 00:15:58.399
I mean, could be another word for it.
00:15:58.559 --> 00:16:11.440
No, I I that I think is a pretty gross generalization because Well, dictatorial is another word that comes up like like Yeah, or compensatory or Yeah, or you know, I mean, just kind of like we have to control you.
00:16:11.600 --> 00:16:11.840
Yeah.
00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:12.720
As as women.
00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:13.039
Right.
00:16:13.279 --> 00:16:19.279
Women and their desires and their eroticism and their bodies need to be controlled.
00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:20.240
Right.
00:16:20.559 --> 00:16:30.639
And um the foot fashion industry has a lot of interweaving with that part of I think of our human history, you know.
00:16:31.840 --> 00:16:39.360
Um and I mean listen, y'all, I totally got a fancy ass pair of of heels to wear to our wedding.
00:16:39.519 --> 00:16:39.679
Yeah.
00:16:39.919 --> 00:16:47.759
Which it it went and and and there is a thing about being in a nice pair of shoes that have a heel that does feel a bit sexy to me.
00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:52.799
Right, because the heel lifts you up and it puts your butt out.
00:16:52.960 --> 00:16:53.360
Yep.
00:16:53.759 --> 00:16:55.600
And you kind of sway more.
00:16:56.080 --> 00:17:05.200
I mean, it makes you look available for mating in a very primary um in a in a sort of like a um, you know, in a chimpanzee kind of bonobo sort of way.
00:17:05.440 --> 00:17:06.000
Yeah, totally.
00:17:06.319 --> 00:17:08.480
It's like, hey, ever seen one of these before?
00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:23.359
You know, I just get the call that boobs forward and it pushes your boot, your butt out, and that's kind of part of 100%, you know, um the appeal, I think.
00:17:23.759 --> 00:17:27.680
So I I guess I just wanna, you know, I'm not like Judgy McJudgerton over here.
00:17:27.839 --> 00:17:36.079
A hundred I mean, I am a little bit, but I also get it that well how but you're conscious about it and you're making a choice not to do it.
00:17:36.400 --> 00:17:37.920
Yeah, so that was a very conscious choice.
00:17:38.240 --> 00:17:43.039
Yes, as opposed to when I was 17 trying to stuff my feet into shoes that were too small.
00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:43.519
Yes.
00:17:43.759 --> 00:17:47.279
And then I realized it's somewhere along the way, maybe in my twenties.
00:17:47.440 --> 00:17:49.759
Oh, I'm actually maybe closer to an eight, eight and a half.
00:17:50.160 --> 00:17:53.359
But then I want to put myself in these cowboy boots that are pointy.
00:17:54.559 --> 00:17:57.119
You know, or I wore fry boots for a really long time.
00:17:57.920 --> 00:18:00.880
You know, um, because I love the whole look of that.
00:18:01.200 --> 00:18:08.720
So it in traditional Chinese medicine, the beginning of the meridian system is kidney one, the point.
00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:14.559
The Chinese name for it I'm not gonna try and pronounce because I'll butcher it.
00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:20.640
And if anyone Chinese is listening to the podcast, they'll just roll their eyes and grab their hair and pull it very hard if I try and do it.
00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:23.200
But it means bubbling spring, that point.
00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:27.759
And it's and it's located right at the at the top third of the foot, right?
00:18:27.920 --> 00:18:33.359
Where kind of like you feel the plantar fascia connect into the you know, it's like right below those second toes.
00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:34.400
You you know exactly where it's like.
00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:35.839
It's kind of like around the ball of the foot.
00:18:36.079 --> 00:18:39.279
It's this it's a similar point to the middle of your hand.
00:18:39.519 --> 00:18:50.880
Um you know, if you you just know where I mean, it's not in the arch, it's in the top foot, it's not in the arch, it's in the top third, and it's right underneath where the ball of the foot kind of meets the arch of the foot directly in the middle.
00:18:51.039 --> 00:18:51.279
Yeah.
00:18:51.519 --> 00:19:05.440
Um and that's you feel it, and that's the point at which in in traditional Chinese medicine and Taoism and then Qigong and Tai Chi and Kung Fu, the belief is that the energy of the body connects to the energy of the earth.
00:19:06.160 --> 00:19:12.079
And um and so yeah, it's directly related to your life force.
00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:16.240
So when I'm thinking again about these toes.
00:19:18.640 --> 00:19:23.200
So with this client that had these shoes that is like, sure these are okay, blah, blah, blah.
00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:24.799
I go, okay, let's do something here.
00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:31.759
And we grab a piece of paper, and I had her stand up on a piece of paper and just kind of straight.
00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:34.240
We just did one foot because that's all that would fit.
00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:51.599
Then I took a pen and I outlined her foot, her bare foot, like with where where the the actual shape that her foot takes up on a piece of paper, and then I took her shoe and I put it over the foot, and I could still see the outline outside around the shoe.
00:19:51.759 --> 00:19:56.640
I'm like, this will clearly show you that your foot needs more space.
00:19:56.960 --> 00:19:57.279
Yeah.
00:19:57.680 --> 00:20:09.599
And so I'm thinking now, you know, it's it's not that uncommon to have unless you're finding shoes with whiter toe boxes, you know, you're probably wearing shoes that are a little bit too small for your feet.
00:20:09.680 --> 00:20:15.599
And then you're squishing that spot that you're talking about that is where the life force enters the body.
00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:16.000
Right.
00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:20.799
And then all these people walk around with plantar fasciitis, and then they go to podiatrists that tell them they need arch supports.
00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:24.720
And really what they need to do is let their feet out of these tiny little what does Katie Bowman call them?
00:20:24.799 --> 00:20:25.920
Like, foot coffins.
00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:28.000
Foot coffins.
00:20:28.160 --> 00:20:31.119
She says, okay, Katie Bowman, we'll link her in the show notes.
00:20:31.279 --> 00:20:34.000
She's been a huge teacher for me about the body.
00:20:34.240 --> 00:20:42.400
Um, she's a biomechanist, so she studies movement and is a really, really great science writer um and science communicator.
00:20:42.559 --> 00:20:45.759
Um, and just makes it really easy to understand.
00:20:45.920 --> 00:21:01.119
But um she talks about how uh just imagine okay, listen, 25%, a quarter of all the muscles and bones in the body are below the ankles.
00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:11.680
Okay, like our feet have the ability to be almost as as dexterous dexterous as our hands.
00:21:11.920 --> 00:21:12.240
Oh, I know.
00:21:12.319 --> 00:21:17.119
I've seen like pictures of people who uh like videos of people who have no arms and they can like eat spaghetti with their feet.
00:21:17.359 --> 00:21:17.759
No, 100%.
00:21:18.160 --> 00:21:18.960
Paint, play the shoes.
00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:20.160
And you know what they're not doing?
00:21:20.480 --> 00:21:22.720
They're not stuffing them in little shoe coffins.
00:21:22.960 --> 00:21:24.400
I'll tell you that right now.
00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:33.920
Um she says, imagine if if by the time you were, I don't know, one and a half, two years old, when do we have kids start wearing shoes?
00:21:34.240 --> 00:21:34.799
Two years old.
00:21:35.119 --> 00:21:35.279
Yeah.
00:21:35.519 --> 00:21:39.039
And now they like to stuff them in cute little fashionista shoes, too.
00:21:39.359 --> 00:21:45.279
Just imagine that we also put your hands in mittens from the time you were one and a half and two.
00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:47.279
And every day you wore mittens.
00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:49.039
They kept your fingers together.
00:21:49.279 --> 00:21:49.599
Yes.
00:21:49.839 --> 00:21:50.319
Yeah.
00:21:50.960 --> 00:21:52.319
What would you be able to do with your hands?
00:21:52.480 --> 00:21:53.599
You just have these little flappers.
00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:54.480
Flippers.
00:21:56.160 --> 00:21:58.640
And so that is what we do that is what we do with our feet.
00:21:58.720 --> 00:21:59.759
So then it's like all right well.
00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:06.960
There are things that you can do now in your 30s, 40s, 50s, wherever you're at, to it's never too late to start working with your feet.
00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:07.920
And you know that.
00:22:08.079 --> 00:22:09.759
It's never too late to start working with your feet.
00:22:09.839 --> 00:22:13.279
So I see a I get a lot of complaints on my table, my acupuncture table.
00:22:13.359 --> 00:22:21.039
Well, first of all, I want to I want to say a little more about that, and then I want to shift on my end into the more Jungian ones because people dream about feet all the time.
00:22:21.279 --> 00:22:21.599
Uh-huh.
00:22:21.759 --> 00:22:23.519
And the psyche is obsessed with feet.
00:22:23.839 --> 00:22:25.680
And there are all kinds of fairy tales about feet.
00:22:25.839 --> 00:22:26.079
Yes.
00:22:26.559 --> 00:22:32.480
And um, I have a favorite one that's pretty dark that I thought that I would that I would tell if you want to hear it.
00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:33.359
Of course.
00:22:33.599 --> 00:22:39.599
Um, but I get, you know, like plantar fasciitis and neuropathy are the common things that I hear about that people get.
00:22:39.759 --> 00:22:42.880
People have neuropathic pain in their feet, or they have ridiculopathy, right?
00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:55.200
They have a nerve that's compressed in their back that causes some numb toes or numb toe or sort of like a feeling of like a zing down into the foot is very common when people have nerve pain from the back because all the nerves are connected.
00:22:55.680 --> 00:22:55.839
Yeah.
00:22:56.319 --> 00:22:59.519
Well, you had made this really interesting point that people like to separate their feet.
00:22:59.599 --> 00:23:01.599
Like your feet are your feet, they're not the rest of your body.
00:23:01.680 --> 00:23:03.680
It's like you know, we other our feet.
00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:11.039
Your foot bones connect it to the you can't separate the body, it's all connected.
00:23:13.839 --> 00:23:14.079
Yeah.
00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:17.759
I find acupuncture works great for all those conditions, by the way.
00:23:18.319 --> 00:23:18.720
Totally.
00:23:19.519 --> 00:23:19.759
Yeah.
00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:25.039
And we say all all of the channels of the body have their termini, their end and beginning.
00:23:26.079 --> 00:23:31.039
In the hands, head, feet, and chest.
00:23:31.359 --> 00:23:34.480
And the yin channels connect between the feet.
00:23:35.519 --> 00:23:43.039
And um, and so it's it's like it's a very it's highly enervated, like your feet are super sensitive.
00:23:43.119 --> 00:23:44.640
There's all kinds of nerve endings there.
00:23:44.799 --> 00:23:46.880
Like, think about how bad it is to stub your toe.
00:23:47.759 --> 00:23:48.960
Oh, stubbing your toe.
00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:50.079
No, totally.
00:23:50.400 --> 00:23:51.279
Getting a splinter.
00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:52.240
I'll kill her.
00:23:52.319 --> 00:23:54.319
I mean, if your foot falls asleep.
00:23:54.559 --> 00:23:57.119
Oh, it's just pens and needles.
00:23:57.279 --> 00:23:57.920
Yeah.
00:23:58.240 --> 00:23:58.720
Yeah.
00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:04.720
Well, one time when when my daughter was really young, so just a moving on to the whatever.
00:24:05.200 --> 00:24:07.200
This is just a just as a foot story.
00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:10.240
I was trying to get her dressed in the morning.
00:24:10.400 --> 00:24:14.880
Well, and and I would give her options because she Vieira always loved, you know, options about her clothes.
00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:15.599
She's still like that.
00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:17.680
So I would be like, okay, here's She wanna make her off.
00:24:17.920 --> 00:24:18.400
Here's all the shots.
00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:22.880
Here's all your shirts, here's all your, you know, shorts or pants or skirts or whatever, and here's shoes.
00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:24.160
And you can put it all together in the whip.
00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:26.079
However, you want to do it, you get to do it.
00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:28.480
So she gets herself dressed and she's standing there.
00:24:28.559 --> 00:24:29.759
Maybe she's six, you know.
00:24:29.839 --> 00:24:31.359
And I'm like, all right, we'll get your shoes.
00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:34.240
And she's just like fussing about it, like, meh meh meh.
00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:36.079
You know, she's just kind of like stalling.
00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:38.240
And I'm like, V, come on, we gotta go.
00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:42.319
And and she's like, I don't these, I don't want to put these on, these shoes.
00:24:42.480 --> 00:24:44.319
These, these, these shoes hurt.
00:24:44.559 --> 00:24:46.400
And I'm like, what do you mean these shoes hurt?
00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:48.079
You were just wearing them yesterday.
00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:50.720
And she's like, Mama, these shoes hurt.
00:24:51.440 --> 00:24:55.680
And I suddenly realized that her feet had grown.
00:24:56.160 --> 00:24:56.480
Wow.
00:24:57.680 --> 00:25:02.400
You know, it's like it's that one of those things about like at attributions, you know what I mean?
00:25:02.480 --> 00:25:05.200
Like, I assumed she was being difficult just to be difficult.
00:25:05.359 --> 00:25:05.920
Mm-hmm.
00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:07.519
Because kids do that.
00:25:08.480 --> 00:25:11.039
It literally her feet had grown.
00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:11.599
Wow.
00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:12.240
Overnight.
00:25:12.400 --> 00:25:13.440
Literally overnight.
00:25:13.839 --> 00:25:14.559
Seemingly.
00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:14.960
Yeah.
00:25:15.200 --> 00:25:16.559
Which is how it goes with kids.
00:25:16.720 --> 00:25:17.039
Yeah.
00:25:17.200 --> 00:25:17.599
Mm-hmm.
00:25:17.920 --> 00:25:18.559
Wow.
00:25:19.359 --> 00:25:24.960
Do you have a favorite um foot or shoe story that you can think of that you really love?
00:25:25.279 --> 00:25:30.880
Well, I mean, you know, we've when we first started dating, I was like, Oh girl, you gotta get rid of these shoes.
00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:32.000
They're fucking up your feet.
00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:33.759
Oh, you were talking to me, yeah.
00:25:33.839 --> 00:25:33.920
Yeah.
00:25:34.079 --> 00:25:34.160
Yeah.
00:25:34.319 --> 00:25:36.799
I had started big talking to.
00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:41.759
I had started with the toe shoes like back in in the maybe 2010.
00:25:41.920 --> 00:25:43.920
I started wearing vibrams and trying that whole thing.
00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:45.519
You like a little fashion also.
00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:46.880
I do like a little fashion.
00:25:47.119 --> 00:25:53.839
And there are still quite a few shoes left, as I've re recently noticed as we've moved all the things in this house around.
00:25:55.039 --> 00:25:56.000
I still have to get rid of.
00:25:56.400 --> 00:25:58.160
I was like, look at all these shoes.
00:26:01.119 --> 00:26:05.039
They can like barely pass some sort of minimal footwear test.
00:26:05.200 --> 00:26:05.759
Barely.
00:26:05.920 --> 00:26:06.079
Yeah.
00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:08.960
Like on one point or something, you know.
00:26:09.200 --> 00:26:11.599
Alright, that soul's a little bit flexible, I guess.
00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:13.440
But yeah, so we got together.
00:26:13.599 --> 00:26:15.839
I was like, oh no, you gotta get rid of that.
00:26:16.160 --> 00:26:21.200
You gotta rainbow organize your books, and you gotta get rid of your shoes and get some minimal footwear.
00:26:21.359 --> 00:26:22.880
So here's the thing about my feet.
00:26:23.039 --> 00:26:25.599
I have um medically high arches.
00:26:25.759 --> 00:26:26.880
There's like a term for it.
00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:35.279
They call it uh Pez cavitus, which means that like my arch is the arch in my foot is you can see through it.
00:26:35.759 --> 00:26:39.119
Like it's like a it's like an arch like you could drive your bus under.
00:26:39.359 --> 00:26:39.440
Yeah.
00:26:39.599 --> 00:26:40.480
Like I've taken size.
00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:44.240
I have taken one ballet class in my life and I took it kind of recently.
00:26:44.559 --> 00:26:50.319
And truth, it's like maybe six, seven months ago, maybe it was a year ago or something that I went and took that ballet class.
00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:50.720
Yeah.
00:26:50.960 --> 00:26:55.279
And um, I was never into dance because my parents didn't dance and they didn't encourage me into that area.
00:26:55.359 --> 00:26:59.279
You know, my mom had an amputation, so she wasn't big into dance, and so I was a musician, you know.
00:26:59.359 --> 00:27:07.039
Yeah, um, but people have always looked at my feet and said, You you should have been a ballerina because I have a I have a point in my foot when my foot's just relaxed.
00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:07.599
Uh-huh.
00:27:07.839 --> 00:27:08.240
Uh-huh.
00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:08.880
Yeah.
00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:09.839
My foot's ridiculous.
00:27:10.160 --> 00:27:10.880
You get a banana foot.
00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:12.160
I have a hoof.
00:27:13.440 --> 00:27:16.400
I think it's because maybe I'm a double sag or whatever.
00:27:16.880 --> 00:27:23.119
And so I have struggled with my feet for that reason because I I think there's this part where like it to the grounding.
00:27:23.359 --> 00:27:26.319
I think there's always been a part of me that doesn't want to touch the ground.
00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:28.000
Like, I tend to be very in my head.
00:27:28.319 --> 00:27:29.920
That's part of your psychological profile.
00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:30.559
It is, yeah.
00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:32.400
And look, we see it mirrored in your body.
00:27:32.640 --> 00:27:34.079
It is 100% mirrored in my body.
00:27:34.240 --> 00:27:35.759
I mean, that's what I find so fascinating.
00:27:36.079 --> 00:27:43.039
I would much rather spend time in my Zen tree for it in the sky than down with the dirty stuff that doesn't is that is mysterious and somewhat scary to me.
00:27:43.279 --> 00:27:43.599
Uh-huh.
00:27:43.759 --> 00:27:44.000
Yeah.
00:27:44.079 --> 00:27:44.400
Uh-huh.
00:27:44.640 --> 00:27:46.480
But it's like you got you got to.
00:27:46.640 --> 00:27:46.960
I know.
00:27:47.200 --> 00:27:52.400
If you want to take all that wisdom that you're getting in the Zen tree forest, you know, you gotta you gotta bring it back down to earth.
00:27:52.559 --> 00:27:55.039
You gotta share it with the people, and the people are on the ground.
00:27:55.279 --> 00:27:55.680
You're right.
00:27:55.759 --> 00:27:58.720
And I you know Jesus went to be with the lepers.
00:27:58.880 --> 00:27:59.920
And they washed his feet.
00:28:00.079 --> 00:28:01.039
And they washed his feet.
00:28:01.200 --> 00:28:01.279
Right.
00:28:01.359 --> 00:28:03.680
There's that part about somebody.
00:28:03.920 --> 00:28:04.720
Somebody washed his feet, right?
00:28:04.799 --> 00:28:05.920
Was it Mary Magdalene washed his feet?
00:28:06.079 --> 00:28:07.519
But then I think he washed people's feet.
00:28:07.680 --> 00:28:07.920
I don't know.
00:28:08.160 --> 00:28:09.519
I saw this really great Jesus commercial.
00:28:09.920 --> 00:28:11.279
Never turned with the Bible.
00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:12.720
It's fine.
00:28:14.960 --> 00:28:16.559
I just don't know what I'm talking about.
00:28:17.599 --> 00:28:22.000
But we don't know what we're talking about, but we know that there's feet washing in the Bible, and we know that it was a big deal.
00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:22.960
It was a big deal.
00:28:23.119 --> 00:28:30.799
No, I saw this really beautiful Jesus commercial somewhere watching streaming something, and I don't know, I don't know exactly what it was for.
00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:33.839
It must be for some sort of nonprofit or church or something.
00:28:34.400 --> 00:28:38.799
But it was like Jesus washing all these different people's feet.
00:28:38.880 --> 00:28:39.039
Yeah.
00:28:39.200 --> 00:28:41.279
And literally, I think it made me cry.
00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:45.759
Yeah, well, like you go to the guru and you always touch the guru's feet with your head.
00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:50.559
I mean, it it's there's like a humblingness or humility.
00:28:51.039 --> 00:28:55.200
Um, so back to your feet and my favorite foot story.
00:28:55.920 --> 00:29:01.519
Um Yeah, by the way, I started working on my feet in my 50s listener, so it's never too late, and my feet have gotten significantly better.
00:29:01.759 --> 00:29:02.319
And we got shoes.
00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:08.240
My feet have really improved zero shoes, which is my favorite brand brand of minimal footwear.
00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:11.279
Um, I'll link them in the show notes, but there are many.
00:29:11.440 --> 00:29:14.640
And that you found some that worked for you, and then are also cute.
00:29:14.880 --> 00:29:15.920
Uh yeah, totally.
00:29:16.160 --> 00:29:23.759
And then most importantly, um, and then we went on a trip to um we had a like a one-day trip in DC, Washington, DC.
00:29:23.920 --> 00:29:24.240
Oh, right.
00:29:24.400 --> 00:29:27.200
And we walked forever.
00:29:28.400 --> 00:29:30.640
Didn't we take 22,000 steps that day or something?
00:29:31.279 --> 00:29:31.519
Definitely.
00:29:31.920 --> 00:29:33.200
You took a track of it.
00:29:33.440 --> 00:29:35.440
Yeah, yeah, because my watch track.
00:29:35.599 --> 00:29:38.240
Yeah, no, it was like definitely record-breaking step day.
00:29:38.480 --> 00:29:42.079
When I woke up the next morning, I was like, oh, I feel it in my ankles.
00:29:42.400 --> 00:29:48.880
But you were like, oh my god, I cannot believe that I was able to walk and I am not in more pain.
00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:51.920
No, I had no foot pain the following day, not at all.
00:29:52.240 --> 00:29:59.599
So, so so working with my feet in this way, with you know, like working on spreading my toes, just sticking my fingers in between my toes at night and spreading them.
00:29:59.680 --> 00:30:02.319
They have toast spreaders all over the place that you can get.
00:30:02.559 --> 00:30:04.960
Um, personally, I just really like using my fingers.
00:30:05.039 --> 00:30:06.160
I have some of those toast spreaders.
00:30:06.400 --> 00:30:09.759
It's your personal stove toast spreaders that are with you everywhere, right?
00:30:09.839 --> 00:30:13.119
But just like kind of working with my feet, working with the flexibility of my feet.
00:30:13.279 --> 00:30:17.920
We went to a great workshop at Gaze Yoga with Wes, and he did a whole workshop on the on the feet.
00:30:18.319 --> 00:30:18.960
It was hands and feet.
00:30:19.119 --> 00:30:20.079
With hands and feet, it was so good.
00:30:20.240 --> 00:30:21.039
Yeah, it was awesome.
00:30:21.279 --> 00:30:22.480
Oh my god, that was so good.
00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:24.000
You know, just working with your own feet.
00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:25.279
My feet are so much better.
00:30:25.440 --> 00:30:28.240
My feet are better at 57 than they were at fifth at 47.
00:30:28.640 --> 00:30:29.039
Amazing.
00:30:29.200 --> 00:30:33.519
So even if you've been wearing foot coffins for most of your life, you know, and so is my gait.
00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:39.759
I will say part of what happened because I worked with my feet, I was able to work with my walking gait.
00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:42.160
And my walking gait was affected.
00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:47.759
Like I had some external rotation, I had a tendency to be pretty locked up when I was walking.
00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:50.000
So I have really learned to ground down into my body.
00:30:50.160 --> 00:30:54.480
Yeah, the more that your feet are actually on the ground, the more your body.
00:30:56.480 --> 00:30:59.200
I mean, I want to say is it there you're embodying your body.
00:30:59.279 --> 00:31:01.759
It's like you're actually it's like pulling you down into your body.
00:31:04.079 --> 00:31:07.200
So, you know, there's there's a the arrow points in both directions.
00:31:07.279 --> 00:31:10.079
I'm not gonna tell you if you work on your feet, your back pain will go away.
00:31:10.160 --> 00:31:10.319
Yeah.
00:31:10.480 --> 00:31:11.039
Or vice versa.
00:31:11.119 --> 00:31:13.359
But the arrow or you'll be more psychologically here.
00:31:13.599 --> 00:31:14.799
Or more psychologically grounded.
00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:16.559
But the arrow kind of points in those directions.
00:31:16.880 --> 00:31:17.119
Totally.
00:31:17.599 --> 00:31:18.079
It's yeah.
00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:19.599
It's a it's a system.
00:31:19.920 --> 00:31:24.000
It's a system where everything is um affecting everything else.
00:31:24.160 --> 00:31:29.279
So if you want to change the system, you need to start by changing one thing.
00:31:29.599 --> 00:31:30.079
Yes.
00:31:30.319 --> 00:31:31.920
One thing will change the system.
00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:32.720
Yes.
00:31:32.960 --> 00:31:33.359
Right.
00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:33.839
Yes.
00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:36.559
Shall we talk about this um this story?
00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:39.119
Okay, so have you ever heard the story of the red shoes?
00:31:39.359 --> 00:31:41.279
It's a Hans Christian Andersen story.
00:31:41.599 --> 00:31:42.880
You know, I don't know.
00:31:43.039 --> 00:31:46.079
It kind of reminds me of the Green Ribbon, but I don't think that's where it's going.
00:31:46.480 --> 00:31:49.200
I don't know the story of the Green Ribbon, but you know, we can tell that after.
00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:50.799
Oh, that would be for a good spooky.
00:31:51.039 --> 00:31:55.200
Well, I love stories, and I love I love stories, I love fairy tales, I love myths.
00:31:55.279 --> 00:31:59.440
Um they point to archetypes, and this is the Jungian Let's Yeah, the Red Shoes.
00:31:59.599 --> 00:32:01.200
And they help us understand our psyche, right?
00:32:01.279 --> 00:32:01.759
And they do.
00:32:01.920 --> 00:32:06.319
And Hans Christian Andersen was pointing at a lot of things with his with his stories.
00:32:06.880 --> 00:32:07.519
What's his story?
00:32:07.759 --> 00:32:09.519
Oh, well, we can talk we have a whole episode.
00:32:11.680 --> 00:32:15.039
So the red red, this is this story is published in 1844.
00:32:15.680 --> 00:32:15.920
Okay.
00:32:16.079 --> 00:32:16.319
Okay.
00:32:16.480 --> 00:32:18.799
And I'm gonna give you the a modern retelling of it.
00:32:18.880 --> 00:32:23.759
Uh but I want to tell you there are a lot of there are a lot of retellings because it's a it's a popular story.
00:32:23.920 --> 00:32:28.240
Um, but this is the dark version, okay, because I just want to give you kind of the original.
00:32:28.480 --> 00:32:32.559
And interestingly enough, the protagonist's name is Karen.
00:32:33.440 --> 00:32:34.240
Oh, weird.
00:32:34.480 --> 00:32:35.039
I know.
00:32:35.359 --> 00:32:36.799
So Karen.
00:32:37.039 --> 00:32:37.359
I know.
00:32:37.440 --> 00:32:40.400
So Karen is this in the modern retelling?
00:32:40.640 --> 00:32:40.880
No.
00:32:41.039 --> 00:32:44.000
Well, it no, is this actually Hans Christian Anderson named her Karen?
00:32:44.319 --> 00:32:45.519
There were people named Karen back now.
00:32:45.599 --> 00:32:46.559
Well, maybe, I don't know.
00:32:46.640 --> 00:32:48.079
Maybe this is just the modern retelling.
00:32:48.319 --> 00:32:50.799
So she's it's a poor little girl, right?
00:32:51.279 --> 00:32:56.400
And so she's barefoot, or she's wearing like these little crude wooden shoes.
00:32:56.960 --> 00:32:59.200
And sadly, her mother dies.
00:33:00.640 --> 00:33:01.359
Saw that coming.
00:33:01.599 --> 00:33:01.839
Right.
00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:05.759
Viera used to say, Why at all Disney movies do the mother die?
00:33:06.400 --> 00:33:12.160
Um course because it's an archetype about having you have to grow up.
00:33:12.319 --> 00:33:12.559
Yeah.
00:33:12.880 --> 00:33:15.440
At some point you have to grow up, and so they magnify that point.
00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:20.079
Alright, so her mother dies and she has nothing to wear to the funeral.
00:33:20.480 --> 00:33:28.240
And so an old shoemaker's wife makes her this pair of red uh cloth shoes from some scraps that she has.
00:33:29.200 --> 00:33:32.000
And they're clumsy, but like the little girl loves them.
00:33:32.480 --> 00:33:33.440
Karen loves them.
00:33:33.759 --> 00:33:38.880
And at her mother's funeral, there's a wealthy old woman who sees her.
00:33:39.119 --> 00:33:41.359
She takes pity on her and she adopts her.
00:33:41.839 --> 00:33:42.079
Okay.
00:33:43.599 --> 00:33:50.559
And the old woman burns the ugly red shoes and raises Karen properly.
00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:51.519
Oh, okay.
00:33:51.759 --> 00:33:52.559
So Karen grows up.
00:33:52.880 --> 00:33:55.200
So here we go with that civility savage.
00:33:55.519 --> 00:33:56.480
And this is how you're gonna fit in.
00:33:56.640 --> 00:33:57.279
This is how you're gonna fit in.
00:33:57.519 --> 00:33:58.640
This is how you're gonna fit in.
00:33:58.960 --> 00:33:59.119
Yeah.
00:33:59.440 --> 00:34:03.119
Karen grows up beautiful, and she knows she's beautiful.
00:34:03.519 --> 00:34:03.920
Right.
00:34:04.640 --> 00:34:13.599
And when it's time for her confirmation, she sees a princess wearing these magnificent red shoes and she becomes transfixed by them.
00:34:14.400 --> 00:34:22.159
And later, while shopping with the adopted mom, she finds these beautiful red shoes that resemble the princesses.
00:34:22.639 --> 00:34:27.599
And the adoptive mother has this poorer eyesight and doesn't realize that they're these bright red shoes.
00:34:27.840 --> 00:34:28.800
So she buys them.
00:34:29.360 --> 00:34:29.679
Okay.
00:34:31.119 --> 00:34:35.920
So you know, red shoes, it's like in the thing, it's princess, but in our culture, red shoes are pretty sexual, right?
00:34:36.079 --> 00:34:37.039
I mean Oh yeah.
00:34:37.119 --> 00:34:40.320
I'm thinking red shoes, red lipstick, like pretty woman.
00:34:40.639 --> 00:34:41.039
Yeah.
00:34:42.880 --> 00:34:43.199
Yeah.
00:34:43.360 --> 00:34:43.599
Yeah.
00:34:43.920 --> 00:34:48.079
I mean, the the little red bits of the body that are mimicked by that.
00:34:48.559 --> 00:34:51.199
I know I'm getting into the explicit rating on the show here.
00:34:51.519 --> 00:34:53.440
So we're in the box, it's fine.
00:34:53.679 --> 00:34:57.280
So she wears the red shoes to church.
00:34:57.599 --> 00:34:58.079
Ooh.
00:34:58.320 --> 00:35:00.800
I don't think that that is a right thing to do.
00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:03.119
This is where the story goes a little dark.
00:35:03.440 --> 00:35:05.039
So she wears the red shoes to church.
00:35:05.199 --> 00:35:05.679
Oh boy.
00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:08.639
And instead of thinking about God, she's thinking about her shoes.
00:35:08.719 --> 00:35:08.880
Oh.
00:35:09.280 --> 00:35:10.320
And everybody's looking at them.
00:35:10.480 --> 00:35:10.639
Oh.
00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:11.440
Everybody else.
00:35:11.840 --> 00:35:13.599
She notices that everybody's looking at them.
00:35:13.760 --> 00:35:13.840
Yeah.
00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:15.119
And she loves that.
00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:16.400
Right.
00:35:16.639 --> 00:35:19.599
And outside the church, there's this old disabled sol soldier.
00:35:19.760 --> 00:35:21.360
He admires the shoes.
00:35:22.639 --> 00:35:25.840
And says something like, What beautiful dancing shoes.
00:35:26.079 --> 00:35:28.400
This is where the kind of the trickster comes in, right?
00:35:28.960 --> 00:35:30.000
And he taps them.
00:35:31.280 --> 00:35:33.679
And when he taps them, the shoes begin to dance.
00:35:34.559 --> 00:35:34.800
Right.
00:35:35.199 --> 00:35:36.639
Does that mean Karen begins to dance?
00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:39.119
At first, she can stop them.
00:35:39.519 --> 00:35:40.559
But something shifted.
00:35:40.719 --> 00:35:43.519
Her relationship to the shoes is becoming weird.
00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:45.519
Oh, the shoes are controlling her.
00:35:45.760 --> 00:35:46.320
Yes.
00:35:47.440 --> 00:35:54.079
At first she can still stop them, but then so the adoptive mother says, You can never wear these shoes to church again.
00:35:54.239 --> 00:35:57.679
Like in other words, Karen, what the hell is the matter with you wearing red shoes to church?
00:35:59.440 --> 00:36:02.800
So naturally, she wears the red shoes to church again.
00:36:03.119 --> 00:36:03.519
Uh-huh.
00:36:03.920 --> 00:36:04.239
Okay.
00:36:04.960 --> 00:36:11.119
She comes out again, the mysterious old soldier is there, and he again is like, Oh, those are beautiful dancing shoes.
00:36:11.920 --> 00:36:15.920
And now they take over and she starts dancing uncontrollably.
00:36:16.239 --> 00:36:17.599
She can't make her feet stop.
00:36:17.840 --> 00:36:19.440
She dances out of the churchyard.
00:36:19.519 --> 00:36:21.119
So this is when Karen goes nuts.
00:36:21.360 --> 00:36:23.039
Karen gets possessed.
00:36:23.440 --> 00:36:23.760
Wow.
00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:24.239
Really.
00:36:24.880 --> 00:36:30.400
So she dances out of the churchyard, she dances down the road, she's dancing through the field, she's dancing in the forest.
00:36:31.599 --> 00:36:38.639
And in in in another version of this, an angel appears to her and condemns her to dance as a punishment for her vanity and pride.
00:36:38.800 --> 00:36:40.480
So now it's really going dark, right?
00:36:40.800 --> 00:36:42.400
I know, I'm loving your eyes here.
00:36:42.719 --> 00:36:43.840
And she keeps dancing.
00:36:44.079 --> 00:36:45.599
Day and night she's dancing.
00:36:45.920 --> 00:36:54.320
Meanwhile, the adoptive mother becomes gravely ill and Karen wants to get back to her, but the shoes are keeping her away.
00:36:56.320 --> 00:36:57.840
Eventually the woman dies.
00:36:58.480 --> 00:37:01.199
Karen can't attend the funeral because she's still dancing.
00:37:03.679 --> 00:37:04.880
Now she's horrified.
00:37:05.599 --> 00:37:08.719
What she desired has completely possessed her.
00:37:10.480 --> 00:37:17.280
She finally dances to the house of the executioner and she begs him, cut off my feet.
00:37:18.880 --> 00:37:20.079
And he does.
00:37:21.840 --> 00:37:25.760
Now this is where Anderson goes like full nightmare in the story, okay?
00:37:26.480 --> 00:37:31.360
The severed feet, still wearing the red shoes, continue dancing.
00:37:31.519 --> 00:37:32.480
Oh my god.
00:37:33.519 --> 00:37:39.039
Karen's given these wooden feet and crutches, and she tries to repent and return to church.
00:37:39.360 --> 00:37:44.159
But whenever she approaches the church, the red shoes appear before her, dancing.
00:37:44.400 --> 00:37:44.960
Oh my god.
00:37:45.519 --> 00:37:47.039
She cannot get past them.
00:37:47.280 --> 00:37:49.679
She tries again elsewhere, same thing.
00:37:50.000 --> 00:37:55.760
Eventually, she gives up trying and goes to work in a parsonage, living quietly and penitently.
00:37:55.920 --> 00:37:57.119
She prays for forgiveness.
00:37:57.360 --> 00:38:01.280
Finally, the angel returns, and this time he's no longer threatening.
00:38:01.519 --> 00:38:10.800
She experiences like this overwhelming joy and grace of the church itself seems to have come to her, her heart fills with peace, and she dies.
00:38:12.639 --> 00:38:13.119
The end?
00:38:19.920 --> 00:38:21.760
Dang that's Christian Anderson.
00:38:22.159 --> 00:38:28.719
Well, I mean, beneath kind of like the lesson about vanity, it's not a good idea.
00:38:28.880 --> 00:38:36.880
Yeah, it's like vanity, desire, um beauty, social elevation.
00:38:37.360 --> 00:38:41.519
Also, like like she's mm-hmm, what's the word for it?
00:38:41.679 --> 00:38:45.360
It's like she's she's making her own decision.
00:38:45.440 --> 00:38:46.159
You know what I mean?
00:38:46.239 --> 00:38:51.760
It's like she's not uh she uh she's actually not fitting into the culture with these shoes.
00:38:51.920 --> 00:38:53.679
These shoes take her out of the culture.
00:38:53.920 --> 00:38:54.239
Right.
00:38:54.800 --> 00:38:56.079
It's a statement about classes.
00:38:56.400 --> 00:38:58.400
Originality and yeah.
00:38:58.639 --> 00:38:59.119
Mm-hmm.
00:38:59.599 --> 00:39:04.960
And I mean that that it that it is um that your shoes, that your feet could possess you.
00:39:05.199 --> 00:39:09.039
Well, the modern Karen stereotype makes it accidentally hilarious, right?
00:39:09.199 --> 00:39:14.079
Because it's like, Karen, I'm wearing these red shoes to church.
00:39:14.239 --> 00:39:14.880
Yeah.
00:39:15.440 --> 00:39:17.760
Everyone else, Karen, perhaps don't.
00:39:17.920 --> 00:39:18.239
Yeah.
00:39:18.400 --> 00:39:18.639
Yeah.
00:39:18.880 --> 00:39:19.119
Right.
00:39:19.199 --> 00:39:19.360
Yeah.
00:39:19.519 --> 00:39:22.800
And Karen's like, I will be wearing the red shoes.
00:39:23.840 --> 00:39:26.000
And the shoes are like, excellent.
00:39:26.400 --> 00:39:26.880
Run things.
00:39:27.199 --> 00:39:27.440
Wow.
00:39:27.679 --> 00:39:28.320
You know what I mean?
00:39:29.280 --> 00:39:30.719
And then Karen's like listen to it.
00:39:30.960 --> 00:39:33.199
I would like to speak to the manager of my feet.
00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:42.079
Oh my goodness.
00:39:42.320 --> 00:39:49.039
Well, and also, like, I mean, it's like really it came, it came to you cutting your own feet off.
00:39:49.199 --> 00:39:51.679
You really couldn't be self-possessed enough.
00:39:51.920 --> 00:39:52.239
Right.
00:39:52.400 --> 00:39:57.519
You're possessed, but you can't be self-possessed to be like, let's take the shoes off.
00:39:57.920 --> 00:39:58.400
Yeah.
00:39:58.639 --> 00:40:10.800
You know, it seems like like like real that like such an extreme response to your inability to control your own desires.
00:40:11.599 --> 00:40:12.159
Mm-hmm.
00:40:14.639 --> 00:40:15.599
Oh, yeah.
00:40:15.840 --> 00:40:18.320
And I mean, like, there's like a self-containment lesson in the world.
00:40:19.519 --> 00:40:20.960
Well, the last well, there's so many things.
00:40:21.280 --> 00:40:24.239
I mean, we could I it's it's so there's it's such a rich story.
00:40:25.119 --> 00:40:30.000
I think listener, one of the things that I like to do with a story is just listen to it at first and then just let it cook.
00:40:30.079 --> 00:40:30.159
Yeah.
00:40:30.320 --> 00:40:31.119
Let it cook you a bit.
00:40:31.440 --> 00:40:32.960
You'll probably think about this for a couple of years ago.
00:40:33.360 --> 00:40:34.159
You'll probably think about it.
00:40:34.239 --> 00:40:40.000
But remember in the last episode we were talking about how the body just kind of like refuses to tell the ego story.
00:40:40.239 --> 00:40:45.920
Like the body's kind of like, you're gonna make me do things, and the body's like, and I'm really the one that's in charge.
00:40:46.480 --> 00:40:47.039
Right.
00:40:47.280 --> 00:40:50.239
It's kind of like our ego is the Karen, and we're trying to tell the body.
00:40:50.400 --> 00:40:51.760
I'm telling the manager.
00:40:52.320 --> 00:40:53.280
You know what I mean?
00:40:53.760 --> 00:40:55.199
And the body's like, oh yeah?
00:40:55.440 --> 00:40:55.840
Oh yeah?
00:40:56.000 --> 00:40:56.639
I'm gonna show you.
00:40:56.880 --> 00:40:58.239
I'm gonna keep dancing.
00:40:58.480 --> 00:40:58.960
Mm-hmm.
00:40:59.199 --> 00:40:59.760
Mm-hmm.
00:41:00.639 --> 00:41:00.880
Yeah.
00:41:01.039 --> 00:41:07.920
I mean, Karen consciously says, like, I want this, and her eventually her body says, This is going to kill me.
00:41:08.639 --> 00:41:12.559
Like, if you keep these shoes on, right, it's gonna kill me.
00:41:12.719 --> 00:41:13.360
Yeah.
00:41:13.679 --> 00:41:19.599
And I think w what I wondered about, what I wonder about when I read the story is why can't she get the shoes off?
00:41:19.920 --> 00:41:20.800
I know, me too.
00:41:21.039 --> 00:41:22.239
Why didn't she just take them off?
00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:23.599
Like, where's the kill switch?
00:41:23.760 --> 00:41:24.159
Uh-huh.
00:41:24.400 --> 00:41:24.639
You know?
00:41:24.800 --> 00:41:25.039
Uh-huh.
00:41:25.199 --> 00:41:26.639
Um, why doesn't she take them off?
00:41:26.800 --> 00:41:32.079
And it the other thing it reminds me, there's so many other stories about shoes and bodily mutilation, right?
00:41:32.159 --> 00:41:36.239
Like the original Cinderella and the slipper.
00:41:36.400 --> 00:41:36.719
Uh-huh.
00:41:37.039 --> 00:41:40.800
You know, the the stepsisters in the Grimms version cut their toes off.
00:41:41.199 --> 00:41:41.599
Uh-huh.
00:41:42.239 --> 00:41:43.199
To fit their feet.
00:41:43.599 --> 00:41:44.480
To fit in.
00:41:45.679 --> 00:41:46.559
To fit in.
00:41:47.840 --> 00:41:53.519
Yeah, so it's like, what do we deny of our own selves to fit into society and culture?
00:41:54.320 --> 00:41:54.639
Yeah.
00:41:54.719 --> 00:42:03.840
I mean, in the original Snow White, the evil queen has a pair of iron shoes b welded onto her that literally dance her to death.
00:42:04.239 --> 00:42:06.000
Oh, again, shoes dancing to death.
00:42:06.239 --> 00:42:06.400
Yeah.
00:42:06.480 --> 00:42:09.599
It's I think they were really scared of dancing at this time.
00:42:12.719 --> 00:42:18.079
I think this is a warning, a warning against uh against dancing.
00:42:19.519 --> 00:42:30.800
You know, that's when when when I when I studied the New Testament in gradu in um undergrad, one of the things that we would do is we would look at the stories of the New Testament and be like, okay, well, what would this tell us?
00:42:30.960 --> 00:42:34.559
What do these stories tell us about what was important to that culture at that time?
00:42:34.800 --> 00:42:37.599
And so I can't help but doing that with the with these stories.
00:42:37.840 --> 00:42:44.320
Well, I mean, and it's like, what are you willing to do to your actual body in order to inhabit some kind of imagined beauty?
00:42:45.360 --> 00:43:03.119
Okay, and so this is where we get into you know, cosmetic surgery, ozembic culture, bodybuilding, high heels, um, expressions of gender, looks maxing, looks maxing, fashion, aging, wellness culture, athletics, body modification.
00:43:03.840 --> 00:43:05.920
You know, like why do I have the tattoos that I do?
00:43:06.400 --> 00:43:06.719
Right.
00:43:07.199 --> 00:43:16.880
Um completely benign forms of um it's not it's not that I'm saying body modification is bad, but it's like how conscious are you?
00:43:17.280 --> 00:43:17.920
How conscious is it?
00:43:18.159 --> 00:43:19.119
How conscious is it?
00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:26.239
And and you know, how conscious are you of why you want of your desire and why you want the things that you do?
00:43:27.280 --> 00:43:29.599
Um you know, who is choosing?
00:43:30.239 --> 00:43:31.440
What does it cost?
00:43:35.920 --> 00:43:39.840
And so going back to the feet, I mean I mean if the shoe fits, there's another step.
00:43:40.159 --> 00:43:40.800
Oh, that's a good one.
00:43:40.960 --> 00:43:41.440
Yeah, right.
00:43:41.679 --> 00:43:42.559
If the shoe fits.
00:43:42.880 --> 00:43:43.679
If the shoe fits.
00:43:43.920 --> 00:43:44.079
Yeah.
00:43:44.320 --> 00:43:44.480
Right.
00:43:44.639 --> 00:43:48.320
So does the shoe fit the foot, or are you changing the foot to fit the shoe?
00:43:48.559 --> 00:43:53.360
And what I realized is that in my life I was a stepsister until I was fifty.
00:43:53.519 --> 00:43:55.760
I was changing my foot to fit the shoe.
00:43:56.400 --> 00:43:59.599
Oh, like as in Cinderella, you were the you were one of the stepsisters.
00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:03.280
To change changing my foot to fit the shoes that I wanted to wear.
00:44:03.440 --> 00:44:03.840
Yeah.
00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:04.159
Yeah.
00:44:04.480 --> 00:44:06.239
Literally changing a part of my body.
00:44:06.480 --> 00:44:06.960
I know.
00:44:07.360 --> 00:44:11.360
To fit instead of finding the shoes that fit your foot.
00:44:11.519 --> 00:44:11.760
Right.
00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:13.199
As the way it is.
00:44:13.519 --> 00:44:14.159
Yeah.
00:44:14.639 --> 00:44:20.239
Well, and I mean what I love about our culture now is that now we're making money off of that, which is great.
00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:22.239
I'm very happy to support that.
00:44:22.800 --> 00:44:23.360
What do you mean?
00:44:23.599 --> 00:44:25.920
I mean all these companies that are hawking their minimal footwear all.
00:44:26.400 --> 00:44:27.039
Right, yeah, yeah.
00:44:27.199 --> 00:44:28.400
No, totally, totally.
00:44:28.559 --> 00:44:30.400
Well, that's you know, that's capitalism.
00:44:30.800 --> 00:44:48.320
I'm sure like if you're listening, listener, and this is not this is this might not be a conversation that's unfamiliar to you, but there's so many podcasts and you know, infomercials out there about the earthing shoe, the grounding shoe, the grounding harachi, the magical shoe with the copper in it that's gonna cure your neuropathy, the this, the that, you know, whatever.
00:44:48.719 --> 00:44:49.280
Yeah.
00:44:50.079 --> 00:44:50.320
Yeah.
00:44:50.480 --> 00:44:56.000
When the answer sometimes I just feel like the answer is m is simple of like, can you just go outside?
00:44:57.599 --> 00:44:58.239
You know?
00:44:59.360 --> 00:45:00.159
Say more.
00:45:00.480 --> 00:45:00.960
I don't know.
00:45:01.119 --> 00:45:06.480
I just I feel like yes, I'm glad that all of these minimal footwear is available.
00:45:06.639 --> 00:45:10.239
There are things about the culture that I really like, but I think that we complicate things a lot.
00:45:10.400 --> 00:45:18.639
I mean, Katie Bowman will say if you don't have a lot of money and you want to get some minimal shoes, some of the best minimal shoes are swim shoes.
00:45:18.880 --> 00:45:19.119
Oh.
00:45:19.440 --> 00:45:26.800
They have a flexible show sole, they're usually pretty wide, like um, they attach to the back of your heel.
00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:35.119
Um so it's like, mmm, I don't know.
00:45:35.280 --> 00:45:38.400
Or it might just be like giving your feet some time to like spread out.
00:45:38.559 --> 00:45:48.159
I mean, really, I guess I would I would leave the listener with this like, sure, get the shoes, get the toe spreaders, but also just putting your fingers between your toes.
00:45:48.400 --> 00:45:50.559
Like, you know, can you spend some time?
00:45:50.719 --> 00:45:57.280
Can you just can you just either sitting, put your feet on the ground, and just let your toes spread out?
00:45:57.440 --> 00:46:00.480
Just see how how wide can you get your feet?
00:46:00.639 --> 00:46:03.920
Like, how countercultural to try to get your feet wider.
00:46:04.320 --> 00:46:04.800
Yeah.
00:46:05.039 --> 00:46:05.360
Right?
00:46:05.599 --> 00:46:05.840
Yeah.
00:46:06.079 --> 00:46:10.719
Um I remember when we first met, you have a you have a glorious space between your big toe and your second toe.
00:46:10.880 --> 00:46:12.239
I know, I don't know what's up with that.
00:46:12.480 --> 00:46:13.360
It's really nice.
00:46:13.519 --> 00:46:16.320
And I remember thinking, she's grounded.
00:46:17.280 --> 00:46:21.280
I really needed that because I'm not a very grounded person, and it's something I have to work on.
00:46:21.519 --> 00:46:21.840
Right.
00:46:22.000 --> 00:46:23.920
Um, because it's not where I live naturally.
00:46:24.079 --> 00:46:26.719
Some of us live in that grounded space naturally temperamentally.
00:46:26.880 --> 00:46:28.239
I I'm I'm not so much there.
00:46:28.800 --> 00:46:31.360
So I think you and I that's one of the ways we're different together.
00:46:31.679 --> 00:46:32.960
I think you're more grounded than I am.
00:46:33.760 --> 00:46:35.119
I'm working my way there.
00:46:35.360 --> 00:46:36.960
And I think I've worked on it.
00:46:37.280 --> 00:46:39.519
I think I think I've definitely worked on it.
00:46:40.400 --> 00:46:41.280
For sure.
00:46:42.480 --> 00:46:45.679
Well So it's a good fit.
00:46:45.920 --> 00:46:46.960
It's a good fit.
00:46:47.199 --> 00:46:49.039
I'm gonna get a high file for that one.
00:46:51.599 --> 00:46:57.280
Well, I hope this has given you listeners some things to think about with your own feet and your relationship with your feet.
00:46:57.360 --> 00:47:04.800
And I also encourage you to pay attention to the ways you use feet in your language.
00:47:04.960 --> 00:47:13.519
So when you say things like, Oh, I can't stand so and so, you know, well, it how is so-and-so not supporting you?
00:47:13.599 --> 00:47:19.760
Like, let's let's draw that metaphor out a little bit more, or um, I just want to put my best foot forward.
00:47:20.159 --> 00:47:27.440
Like, what does it actually feel like to move forward feeling like it's with your best foot?
00:47:27.599 --> 00:47:41.840
Like, start to draw that connection between the the use of language that references feet or standing or all of that sort of thing, and what what is actually being said underneath that and how that inhabits your body.
00:47:42.000 --> 00:47:45.760
Because also, I think the plan is we're gonna continue to go through the body in this way.
00:47:45.920 --> 00:47:46.400
Yes, yes.
00:47:46.719 --> 00:47:47.920
This is this has been fun.
00:47:48.079 --> 00:47:49.199
This has been great today.
00:47:49.440 --> 00:47:49.760
Yes.
00:47:50.559 --> 00:47:56.960
Well, um, if you are on Apple Podcasts, we are accepting reviews on there.
00:47:57.119 --> 00:48:02.639
I did see that on Spotify you can, I don't think you can leave an actual review review, but you can leave a rating.
00:48:02.719 --> 00:48:05.280
So, you know, five stars goes a long way.
00:48:05.599 --> 00:48:15.519
Um, it's a really easy way that you can help us continue to do this work and bring you these podcasts, which I hope are like and subscribe.
00:48:15.760 --> 00:48:17.599
Like, share, and subscribe.
00:48:17.920 --> 00:48:22.960
And uh we will see you here next week on Being Different Together.