Accomplished educator facing persecution for doing the right thing

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Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Actional Truth podcast.
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I'm Michael Ginsburg. In this episode, I'm joined by two
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educators from New Zealand who have appeared actually before on
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the podcast discussing the New Zealand Royal Commission, which turned
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out to be surprisingly enough or not surprisingly completed out
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of farce. So I will link to the previous conversation
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in the show notes. But my first guest and the
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focus of this episode, is Catherine Peak.
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Catherine worked in education for over.
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Thirty years, including twelve years as a school principal, and
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she faced some very significant prosecution due to some of
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the choices that she's made and the actions that she
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took during the time of the COVID nineteen injectables the
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mandates of the nineteen injectables during the time of Justine
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Arderne as the New Zealand Primer. My second guest is
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Ursula Edgington and a name that will likely be familiar
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to you if you've been following my work, as we've
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done quite a lot of investigations together and there's many
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more to come, no doubt. Ursula as an experience educator
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herself in an academic and for the purpose of this discussion.
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She's also a personal friend of Catherine and very familiar
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with her current plight. So basically, Ursula is my co
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host for this episode. So let me add the ladies. Hello, ladies,
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thanks for coming on.
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All right, thanks for letting us pleasure pleasure.
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So, as you know, I usually like to kind of
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like you know, said the scene, you know, before we
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start our discussion. So, I mean, New Zealand is like,
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you know, a small country in the South Pacific, and
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maybe some people, especially if they're not in New Zealand
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or in Australia, probably or may have forgotten what happened
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in New Zealand, you know, in the early years of
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the twenty twenties. So let's take a few years back
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and I guess bring them back to those times, just
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to remind people what you've experienced.
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So let's have a goal.
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In site fear. It's the oldest trick in the book,
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but it is the most harmful and the most damaging.
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Breaking the rules could kill someone close to you and
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maintain compliance and there will be spot checks in place
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for anyone who is not vaccinated right now. Unless you
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choose to be, you will not be able to enjoy
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the freedoms of other New Zealanders. If you don't comply
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with the rules, who run the risk of forcing us
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to extend the period of lockdown, and worse, you could
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contribute to the virus defeating us and causing harm to.
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Thousands in site fear.
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It's the oldest trick in the book.
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The virus is literally finding unvaccinated people. Failure of any
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one to play their part in coming days will put
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the lives of others at risk, and there will be
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no tolerance for that. We will not hesitate to use
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our enforcement powers if needed, we will play the role
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of enforcer. Police have also issued seventy infringements nationwide, including
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sixty one to people who failed to remain at home
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and five for persons who failed to wear a face covering.
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So this was based on the numbers of the modeling, right, Yes.
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Yes, yes, it was quite simply. If we continued to
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see community transmission without any intervention the infection rate, then
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the number of individuals who we can tell from overseas
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would require hospital care. Then acute hospital care, Tens of
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thousands of New Zealanders would die.
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I wish so much that we can turn towards those
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more optimistic, hopeful, and inclusive responses to problems. If you
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want to be able to go to a bar, a restaurant,
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a cafe, a gym, a place you can have your haircut,
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a sporting event, a festive, a gathering, get vaccinated both
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yourself and Minister Hippens said that the vaccinations would never
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be forced on anyone, and yet the mandates have come.
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So that was the question over whether or not we
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would compel all New Zealanders to be vaccinated, and we've
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firmly taken that view.
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We will not, and we have not.
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If we have cases that start to climb in in
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areas where we have lower vaccination rates and vulnerable communities,
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we can use more highly targeted and very localized lockdowns
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if we need to.
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And if that.
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Means calling a family member or work colleague out for
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not following the rules, then we should do that. Do
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it with kindness, but do.
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It so you basically said this is going to be
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like almost don't see like this the two different classes
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of people.
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If you're vaccinated or if you're vaccinated, you have all
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these rights if you are vaccinated, that is.
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What it is.
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So yep, Yep, there are fifty thousand breast streams that
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should have happened, which means there are likely three hundred people,
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three hundred women out there who have CA and don't
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know about it. You suggested last week that were potentially
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due to people not not going, but it's actually about availability.
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Well, actually, one of the things that we've had is
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feedback that people have been concerned about attending.
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So that's certainly not.
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Saying or what the feedback was from our viewers who
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said that they are trying to get appointments but they're
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being delayed months.
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Do you condone the ferols and the river of fealth
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comments by your senior ministers.
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I don't condone the illegal activity outside.
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What about your ministers.
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Go home tonight and check on your neighbors. Don't talk
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to your neighbors. So please be strong and be kind.
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I will not be seeking re electionhips. There was nothing
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particularly occurring at.
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The time that was what was agreed about it.
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Yeah, is because it's not like she's stepping down because
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of COVID, or she's stepping down because it's too overwhelming,
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or she's stepping down. It's it.
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There was no moment, there was no thing.
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The country is turning on. Prime Minister ju Sindra Adern
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and her government.
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Labors suffered a dramatic drop and support in our latest
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news have read research part and now people suffering from
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the cost of living are punishing her authoritarian lockdowns and
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draconean vaccine mandates are decimated the human rights of New
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Zealanders and destroyed businesses.
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Five times.
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So I think that that's probably the answer that I
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would give to anyone in New Zealand, but really anyone
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around the world that also says, oh, look, I mean,
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COVID is over, let's move on, let's like, you know,
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let's forget, it's all good.
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Yeah. So I think I think that's probably a good
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answer for that. All right, Okay, so let's talk about you, Catherine.
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So I've given the audience a little bit of a
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background about, like, you know, the sort of work that
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you did. But I mean, do you want to tell
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people a little bit more about your career?
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What did you do?
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I guess before COVID started, and I guess what happened
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in twenty twenty one Corvid head M Yeah.
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So I was I have been sort of history of teaching.
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I've been I've actually been a teacher in multiple regions
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across New Zealand, but during the time of COVID, I
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was actually a principal of a small rural school in
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regional New Zealand. And the school was about one hundred
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and eighty students.
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It was.
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Like in a small town, but where the school is
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actually the hub of a community. So it had I
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had a really significant role because not only it's seen
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like not principle of a small only eight one hundred
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and eighty students, but the entire community was very much
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involved in you know what the school, like supported the school,
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came to the school for advice, you know. So it
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was a really significant role. I was also the deputy
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principal of what we call a kahuyakor, which is a
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community of learning, which is groups of school Also I
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was in our particular community of learning. There were seventeen
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schools that included two high schools, the rest were primary,
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but it also include seven ECE centers like early childhood centers.
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And my role in that or, my portfolio, particularly in
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that community was on wellbeing of students, staff, the community, parents, families.
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So I held the well being portfolio and I was
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also a trustee of an organization that provided support programs
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to at risk youth in the community and families that
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were struggling with multiple challenges. So I did have a
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significant number of key roles in that community.
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So you were doing all of that at the same time.
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So you were at the principal of your school and
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then you were the deputy principal or the deputy principle
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of a community where basically you were responsible for the
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well being of seventeen hundred.
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Students, three thousand students, three.
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Thousand apologies, Okay, that's a lot of more.
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It's worth pointing out actually that one of the models
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of the way that New Zealand education system is structured
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is that it tends to focus on the schools or
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the colleges that are doing really well and so they're
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helped up as a beacon for the other, you know,
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institutions that may be struggling in whatever you know way,
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either economically or academically or whatever. So what Catherine has
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just explained is her role in basically having a successful
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community rural school that is designed in a way that
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could be helpful either as a mentor or you know,
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strategies you know, parent teacher, governor type policies as a
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way of helping others you know, that are in a
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similar kind of environment that are looking for ideas and
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creativity and ways to improve their learning outcomes. So yeah,
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well it's worth just highlighting that because it's not it's
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not a model that is used as widely overseas as
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it is in New Zealand. It's it's worth pointing that out.
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Maybe it should be. You know, it works well. When
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it works, it works well.
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Yeah.
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So basically what you're trying to say, I just want
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to make sure that I understand it correctly, just for
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the audience as well. So basically what you've built, Catherine,
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like you know, in terms of like you know, student
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wellness and stuff like that within your area. So not
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just like you know, the particular school that you were
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a principal of, they were basically trying to copy and
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replicate that to other areas because it was working so well.
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Yes, yes, yes, And interestingly on that my school was
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actually touted as a like a model of inclusive practice
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because I had had we actually had a number of
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students that would come to us regularly that had been
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stood down in a number of other schools, and so
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my school was kind of like the school of last resort.
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And I never ever I stood children down for like
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a day or a couple of days if they'd done
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something you know, that was appropriate for that for that,
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for that you know, to happen. But I never actually
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excluded any students because I'm very much aware that once
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if I had excluded them, they would have been out
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of the system altogether, and that has a massive impact
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on that student and their family in terms of what
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they can do in society and where they're going to go.
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You know, their options of education are basically over.
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So what your groups are there?
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Is that like starting from primary school all the way
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to high school or is this high school or is
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it kind of like all of it?
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Like what what your groups are there?
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So I was a principal in a primary school and
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that was so it was a foot what we call
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a full primary, so it goes up to year eight,
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which is sort of twelve thirteen year olds. But the
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Kahuya call, which I was part of, that's that's right
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through from new entrant or early childhood actually, because we
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also had early child attenders, so right from two year
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olds right up to thirteen year thirteen, So what's set
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seventeen eighteen years?
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Right? Okay, all right, So, so.
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I think it's safe to say that you can't really
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be described as a trouble maker for the government, or
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for the Department of Education, or for really anyone.
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I think that would be a.
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Safe thing to say.
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All right, okay, Right, So so I guess, like, you know,
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fast forward to twenty twenty and like, you know, let's
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talk what happened before the mandate.
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So, I mean, obviously COVID.
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Hit whatever it is, and you know, things, things started
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to happen. How did that look, I guess for your
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school and or for your like you know, your local
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community of learning.
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Yeah, so I supported my schools and families through the
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COVID era, including the lockdowns. But in my particular school,
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I was very cautious because obviously we had to implement
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some of the regulations, but some of them were quite ridiculous.
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I just I want to give you an exact actually,
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so I at one stage we were told that we
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weren't allowed to if any children in our school community
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were traveling by bus, they had to wear a mask.
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And my children mostly walked or were transported by their parents,
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so they didn't actually come to school on a bus,
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but we did use a bus that had to go
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down to another community, which was about a twenty minute
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drive to go to technology, which was for things like sewing, cooking,
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would work, metal work, that sort of thing. So but
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I had this quite a stern conversation with my senior
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leadership at the time, because they were absolutely adamant we
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had to follow the regulations. But I knew my school
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community really well, and I knew that there'd be some
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families that weren't that had good reason to not wear
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a mask actually, so I just thought, well, look, these
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kids are in the same classroom all day. We're not
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picking up any children from any other schools, so it
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makes no sense to me that they have to wear
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a mask. So I said to this particular senior that
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I was working with, I said, look, we'll just ring
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the bus company and we'll see what they have to say.
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And the bus company was fine, they said, no problem,
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we'll sort of the bus driver will wear a mask
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so that way there's no cross contamination at all. And
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then they became concerned when I say, these are the
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seniors that leaders that I was working with at the time.
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They came because because they said, oh, what if a
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car drives pass and sees that our kids are not
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wearing masks, And I said, I'm not bothered by that.
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I said, they can ring me. I will sort it.
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So as much as possible, I tried to implement the regulations,
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but I did it with common sense because I just
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kind of felt like some of the rules were just ridiculous,
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Like that's an example of one, Why should they wear
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a mask when the entire they spend their whole day
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in the same classroom with the same students. It didn't
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make any sense. So that's just an example. But I
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obviously did when we transferred to remote learning, we provided
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home packs, we provided computers. In fact, we also had
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access to packs where the government provided schools low desol
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like mine, with internet connections because quite a few families
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didn't have that. So we obviously I did everything I
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could to support my families who needed things over and above,
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you know, for learning. Sometimes I was in constant contact
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with the ones who I was concerned about do you
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need food? Do you need medical supplies? Sometimes I had
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to take them to appointments because a lot of my family,
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some of my families didn't have transport. I want to
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give you another example of that. This is this is
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just to help people understand the impact on a community
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that isn't as well resourced as what some other communities are.
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So I was outside this was before we went into lockdown, actually,
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but I was outside school doing road patrol, and I
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noticed the police had turned up to talk to one
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of my parents, and they stayed there quite a long time.
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So when I finished road patrol, I went just along.
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I said, are you okay? What's going on? And this
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parent told me, oh, look, I've just had my license
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taken off me because his points were too high what
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they call them the demerit points, the merit points. Yeah, so,
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I mean, neither of us had an issue with that.
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The issue was he was told that he could drive home,
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but then not not to go any further. Now, the
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next day we went into lockdown. So this particular parent
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is a single parent, had three children under the age
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of eight, no way to access food. I went around
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the next day and I said to them, I said,
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have you got any support, Like, have you got other
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people that you can rely on to help you get food?
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And all that kind of thing. No, the person, the
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only person they had was a cousin. They were doing
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a three week stint in Auckland. So I made sure
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that he had food not only for the week that
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he needed the week that, you know, the week that
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we were in, but I also said, look, I'm going
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to arrange some for you so that you can have
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other people delivering food packages for you, because what do
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you do in that situation. You know, he had nobody
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that he could rely on to support them, and we're
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in lockdown, and he's had his license taken off them
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so he can't drive anywhere. So yeah, these are the
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examples of what I was dealing with on a constant basis.
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And then also in my own community where I was living,
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because I was in a community it was about ten
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kilometers from the school community. I was also involved in
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creating a database so that the elderly in that community
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and the vulnerable people in that community were catered for.
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So we developed this phone system where those people were
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phoned every day to make sure that there was somebody
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checking in on them, to somebody that can buy them
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groceries or geiver what they need during that time.
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Yeah, and I think it's worth mentioning.
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I guess in that context that we're not talking about
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like a city environment or even a suburb environment, just
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quite a rural environment, so people are there's quite quite
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a bit of distance between like you know, people like
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you know, you can't just walk and ask for help
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from your neighbors and stuff like that. And obviously if
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you can't drive, or like you know, if you can't
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be on the road or if the police have road blocked,
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then that creates like significant diff difficulty they cannot be overcome.
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I mean public and no public sport, that's right, no public.
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You know.
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Actually just wanted to be that we raised a really
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good point because that particular parent that I was talking
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about earlier had their license taken off them, their single parent,
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I actually had to drive twenty klometers from my house
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to theirs, and that was during the time that they
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we were told we weren't allowed to drive five kilometers
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out of our actual area where we loved. So, I mean,
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it was a risk to do things like that, but
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I thought, there's no way I'm going to you know,
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I know about this family. I'm not just going to
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leave them just to try and work things out themselves.
359
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So yeah, it just have to take those I.
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Mean, applying the five kilometer I will rule across the
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board makes no sense. I mean you can do that
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in a metro area, right, but I mean when you're
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in a rural community, I mean, five killings could be
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like not even getting you to your like, you know,
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to your next door neighbors.
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Anyway, that's that's a whole different discussion, all right.
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00:19:06.400 --> 00:19:07.960
Okay, So that that was I guess, like you know
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twenty twenty when, okay, when did the vaccine mandates start
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in your profession in New Zealand?
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And I guess what happened then?
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Yeah, Well, we were told about the mandate on the
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eleventh of October twenty twenty one, and it came into
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force on the twenty fifth of October twenty twenty one.
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So we were given dates that we had to get vaccinated.
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When I say where, I'm talking about the education sector,
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so teachers, Principles support staff. I can't remember the dates
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of when we were head to be vaccinated to be honest,
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but it was the first one we had to have.
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Is it before the November the fifteenth usula? I think
380
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ye was? I think so yeah, yeah, because if you
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hadn't had it by November the fifteenth, you were then
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stood down. So the first one had to be done
383
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by November the fifteenth, and the second one had to
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be done sometime in January before school went back for
385
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the beginning of the following year. So I mean, initially,
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I was obviously quite shocked because because they said they
387
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made it quite clear as you played in that clip earlier,
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that they weren't going to mandate. So my concern was
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about my medical condition because I actually am anaphylectic to
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undiagnosed triggers, so I wasn't going to take the risk
391
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of having some vaccine that hadn't you know, I just
392
00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:35.920
don't want to go there. So but then I thought,
393
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actually I wouldn't. I shouldn't worry about this because I
394
00:20:41.079 --> 00:20:43.079
immediately went to my doctor, I got an exemption, and
395
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I was like, oh, yeah, no, this is okay.
396
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And I was.
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Obviously concerned about other people in my situation who had
398
00:20:48.319 --> 00:20:51.079
medical reasons not to take it, and we all sort of.
399
00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:52.279
For the time.
400
00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:54.799
So just to stop you, your doctor at the time
401
00:20:54.880 --> 00:20:56.720
had no issue, like you know, giving you an exemption,
402
00:20:56.799 --> 00:20:58.440
like you knew that you were like legit.
403
00:20:58.519 --> 00:21:02.079
I mean that was yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah. I got
404
00:21:02.119 --> 00:21:04.440
the exemption very easily because they just look at my
405
00:21:04.720 --> 00:21:07.000
history and my records and so that part of it
406
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was easy. And then then once I'd sort of sorted
407
00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:16.759
myself out, I made inquiries into my own staff in
408
00:21:16.839 --> 00:21:19.160
my school and said, look, any of you in a
409
00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:22.039
situation where you can't or you're unwilling to vaccinate. So
410
00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:23.599
I did what I could to support them. And at
411
00:21:23.599 --> 00:21:26.680
the time, we had five in my school who didn't.
412
00:21:27.759 --> 00:21:30.839
So I did everything in my power to support those
413
00:21:31.000 --> 00:21:34.000
those people in that situation. I gave them stress leave,
414
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I offered them counseling. I even said to them, look,
415
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I'll give you a term with leave without pay. I
416
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did everything I could. In fact, a couple of them,
417
00:21:42.920 --> 00:21:45.319
I said, if you decide to vaccinate, I'll even come
418
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with you. I'll literally sit there and hold your hand.
419
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So yeah, whatever I could do, I tried really hard.
420
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This scretion.
421
00:21:52.799 --> 00:21:56.000
Do you have Catherine as a principal or even like
422
00:21:56.039 --> 00:21:58.640
you know, I think you were the deputy principle of
423
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your local community of learning, So how much discretion were
424
00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:04.519
you given by like, you know, head office sort of
425
00:22:04.559 --> 00:22:07.480
big department of education in terms of like you know,
426
00:22:08.279 --> 00:22:11.880
exemptions or postponing or like, you know, if someone chose
427
00:22:11.920 --> 00:22:15.079
not to get vaccinated, maybe not like not sat them
428
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or not like not have them stood down immediately.
429
00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:20.039
I mean, were you given any discretion on that?
430
00:22:21.079 --> 00:22:25.119
So the short answer is none. The we we actually
431
00:22:25.160 --> 00:22:29.359
received template letters from the which is called in zid Star,
432
00:22:29.519 --> 00:22:31.319
which is it's a different name now, but at the
433
00:22:31.319 --> 00:22:34.839
time it was New Zealand's what is it New Zealand
434
00:22:34.960 --> 00:22:40.680
School Trustees Association, So they basically provided principles with everything
435
00:22:41.559 --> 00:22:44.000
around what they had to do, and we were sent
436
00:22:44.039 --> 00:22:48.400
out a template letter of termination. We had a notice
437
00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:51.359
of termination and a letter of termination. So I was
438
00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:54.720
reading these as a principal knowing that those were that
439
00:22:54.839 --> 00:22:57.359
was the information I was going to be receiving. So
440
00:22:57.680 --> 00:23:02.279
I was probably quite a unique position because I know
441
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from what and I surveyed later about how many of
442
00:23:05.559 --> 00:23:09.960
the teachers were treated that I was very very kind
443
00:23:10.039 --> 00:23:13.039
and understanding of my staff who were in that situation,
444
00:23:13.200 --> 00:23:16.119
but by far the majority, it was very very cautthroat.
445
00:23:17.319 --> 00:23:22.319
So can I just add to what Catherine just said
446
00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:25.359
about the template letters that were sent to the principles
447
00:23:25.400 --> 00:23:28.599
and governors of the schools. Now we recognize and I've
448
00:23:28.640 --> 00:23:32.319
written about this on my website in terms of the
449
00:23:32.400 --> 00:23:39.839
law fare, that the government's lawyers were actually sending these
450
00:23:39.880 --> 00:23:46.880
template letters that the governors could use to sack people
451
00:23:47.200 --> 00:23:50.119
because they knew what the legal loopholes were right that
452
00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:53.039
they were using. The lawyers did, and they didn't want
453
00:23:53.079 --> 00:23:57.759
any you know things backfiring when they knew that these
454
00:23:57.759 --> 00:24:02.400
staff would be fired. So there was communication between the
455
00:24:02.440 --> 00:24:05.960
government and the government's lawyers and the governors of the
456
00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:09.960
schools to make sure that it seemed on paper at
457
00:24:10.039 --> 00:24:13.440
least that the vaccine mandates were legal when they weren't.
458
00:24:14.119 --> 00:24:16.839
What's the difference between a school governor and a school principle?
459
00:24:17.039 --> 00:24:18.400
Just alwy is it the same thing?
460
00:24:20.960 --> 00:24:22.319
I would say it would be the same thing. I'm
461
00:24:22.359 --> 00:24:24.960
not sure what you mean by governor. We don't have
462
00:24:25.279 --> 00:24:26.799
the trustee.
463
00:24:26.920 --> 00:24:31.640
The trustee the board of governors, so that they're made
464
00:24:31.680 --> 00:24:39.160
up normally of a committee of parents, the board of
465
00:24:39.160 --> 00:24:42.079
trustees interested, Yeah, the board of trustees or the board
466
00:24:42.119 --> 00:24:46.359
of governors, depending on what entity you're talking about. So
467
00:24:46.799 --> 00:24:52.079
just basically a background, yeah, a background sort of policy
468
00:24:52.279 --> 00:24:57.559
orientated committee that may not have qualifications, but they are
469
00:24:57.920 --> 00:24:59.559
powerful people in their own right.
470
00:25:00.559 --> 00:25:03.720
So basically the Department of Education sent like those kind
471
00:25:03.759 --> 00:25:06.359
of like template letters to the board of Trustees in
472
00:25:06.440 --> 00:25:08.119
advance and saying, look, this is what.
473
00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:08.720
We're going to do.
474
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And then later on those letters were sent from the
475
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government to directly to the schools or from the Board
476
00:25:16.160 --> 00:25:17.240
of trustees to the school.
477
00:25:18.559 --> 00:25:22.000
What did you templant from Catherine, So the templates came
478
00:25:22.039 --> 00:25:27.799
through the Ministry of Education. And also like so the
479
00:25:27.839 --> 00:25:31.880
New Zealand School Trustees Association is a body where boards
480
00:25:31.880 --> 00:25:35.680
of trustees can get their information from, whereas principles tended
481
00:25:35.720 --> 00:25:37.519
to go to the Ministry of Education. So we were
482
00:25:37.559 --> 00:25:41.039
getting regular updates from the Ministry of Education about what
483
00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:43.799
we had to do. But those templates did come from
484
00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:48.400
New Zealand School Trustees Association, and I received them directly
485
00:25:48.440 --> 00:25:52.400
because I was a principal. So principals, deputy principles and
486
00:25:52.559 --> 00:25:54.480
boards of trustees were sent the information.
487
00:25:54.960 --> 00:25:58.160
Yeah, so it's quite a surreal situation. So you're basically
488
00:25:58.200 --> 00:26:02.519
getting those letters right from the government, like you know
489
00:26:02.599 --> 00:26:05.039
exactly what those letters say, you know, like the order
490
00:26:05.079 --> 00:26:07.200
that like you know those letters will be said, and
491
00:26:07.279 --> 00:26:09.680
you know that sooner or later, what.
492
00:26:09.680 --> 00:26:12.160
You'll have to send those letters to yourself. I mean,
493
00:26:12.160 --> 00:26:13.759
it's quite a real situation to.
494
00:26:13.759 --> 00:26:18.000
Being yeah, very much. So, yeah, it was. It was
495
00:26:18.039 --> 00:26:23.480
awful actually, I mean, yeah, I can't explain how. I mean,
496
00:26:23.519 --> 00:26:27.079
I was distraught for my staff anyway, you know, anybody
497
00:26:27.079 --> 00:26:29.880
that was in that situation. I was really upset for them.
498
00:26:29.960 --> 00:26:32.400
But but yeah, knowing it was coming my way as well,
499
00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:32.960
it just ends.
500
00:26:32.960 --> 00:26:35.960
And we had that We had that run up, didn't we, Catherine,
501
00:26:35.960 --> 00:26:38.799
Because you know, it was March I think that the
502
00:26:38.799 --> 00:26:42.160
New Zealand government announced that they'd secured all these millions
503
00:26:42.160 --> 00:26:45.920
of doses. And although they were saying, like Jacinda said
504
00:26:45.920 --> 00:26:47.480
in that clip that oh no, we're not going to
505
00:26:47.559 --> 00:26:49.839
mandate the staff, et cetera, it was always at the
506
00:26:49.880 --> 00:26:52.559
back of people's minds that that was what they were
507
00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:55.240
planning to do because of the Protagonda and the censorship.
508
00:26:55.839 --> 00:26:58.680
So we had all of that time throughout twenty twenty
509
00:26:59.079 --> 00:27:02.119
where New Zealand didn't really have COVID as such, and
510
00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:04.160
then right at the beginning of twenty twenty one, when
511
00:27:04.160 --> 00:27:07.519
we sort of hoped that it was all over, that
512
00:27:07.640 --> 00:27:11.400
was when they really ramped up the propaganda.
513
00:27:11.599 --> 00:27:14.240
Yeah, and not only so, not only was I dealing
514
00:27:14.279 --> 00:27:16.720
with that layer, I was also dealing with the layer
515
00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:19.039
from the parents' point of view, because again I was
516
00:27:19.079 --> 00:27:23.640
working in a very a community that didn't trust the government,
517
00:27:25.839 --> 00:27:28.559
had probably at the time had the lowest vaccination rate
518
00:27:28.680 --> 00:27:31.240
in the country or one of you know, a community
519
00:27:31.279 --> 00:27:34.680
where the vaccination rates were very low, and I had
520
00:27:34.799 --> 00:27:37.599
so many concerned parents coming to me because there was
521
00:27:37.640 --> 00:27:39.000
this I don't know if it was a rumor, if
522
00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:43.079
it was actually fat about the jab bus ursula where
523
00:27:43.079 --> 00:27:46.079
they were concerned that because what we were told or
524
00:27:46.119 --> 00:27:48.880
what the rumor was, and again I can't confirm how
525
00:27:48.920 --> 00:27:51.880
true it was. That if a jab bus turns up
526
00:27:51.880 --> 00:27:54.720
to your school and your children are at the school,
527
00:27:55.119 --> 00:27:58.039
that is consent. As long as they're at the school,
528
00:27:58.079 --> 00:28:02.079
there is consent for them to be So I was
529
00:28:02.720 --> 00:28:05.039
dealing with that layer as well because I had so
530
00:28:05.119 --> 00:28:07.039
many parents who were coming to me and saying, I
531
00:28:07.039 --> 00:28:09.559
don't want my kid to be jibbed if that happens.
532
00:28:09.680 --> 00:28:13.160
I'm That's point that I think needs repeating, because this
533
00:28:13.240 --> 00:28:14.839
is I just want to make sure that I've heard
534
00:28:14.839 --> 00:28:18.480
it right. So Okay, so the rumor was and again
535
00:28:18.640 --> 00:28:20.599
I don't know if there was later an official confirmation
536
00:28:20.680 --> 00:28:22.759
that there was government policy, but the rumor was that
537
00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:27.319
the policy said that all that has to happen is
538
00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:30.359
for the jeb bus to show up at the school
539
00:28:30.680 --> 00:28:33.039
and if the kids happened to be at that school
540
00:28:33.400 --> 00:28:35.559
on that day, good.
541
00:28:35.359 --> 00:28:39.759
Yeah, go ahead. So this is yeah. So this was
542
00:28:39.880 --> 00:28:44.839
June twenty twenty one when the rollout for the jabs
543
00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:49.079
was approved by medsafe for the fifteen twelve to fifteen
544
00:28:49.119 --> 00:28:54.200
year olds. And so at that point, parents were thinking, right, okay,
545
00:28:54.519 --> 00:28:56.920
I don't want my kid to get vaccinated, because of course,
546
00:28:57.000 --> 00:28:58.480
you know, if you're a teenager and you want to
547
00:28:58.519 --> 00:29:00.680
take part in sports et cetera. We've seen in the
548
00:29:00.720 --> 00:29:06.799
news recently about the myocarditis issues, the kids are more
549
00:29:06.920 --> 00:29:10.400
likely to say, well, you know, yeah, my parents have
550
00:29:10.480 --> 00:29:14.799
approved it, regardless of whether they've actually provided informed consent
551
00:29:15.440 --> 00:29:18.920
or not. And so yeah, at that point, there were
552
00:29:18.960 --> 00:29:23.359
some parents definitely in my local community that were deliberately
553
00:29:23.759 --> 00:29:27.680
keeping their kids at home or you know, making sure
554
00:29:27.720 --> 00:29:30.720
that they weren't in the vicinity of the school because
555
00:29:30.759 --> 00:29:35.079
they were fearful being vaccinated against their wishes.
556
00:29:35.640 --> 00:29:39.720
That's right. And I had, I mean, I had so
557
00:29:39.759 --> 00:29:41.960
many layers that I was trying to navigate. Thus, because
558
00:29:42.400 --> 00:29:44.799
I assured my parents that I tuned up to the school,
559
00:29:44.960 --> 00:29:47.319
they would not be vaccinated because I was there to
560
00:29:47.599 --> 00:29:49.000
kind of prevent me from home made.
561
00:29:49.440 --> 00:29:51.799
So again that's a really important point. Sorry, Catherine, let
562
00:29:51.799 --> 00:29:52.319
me stop you here.
563
00:29:52.359 --> 00:29:55.160
So you are the school principle, right, you were not
564
00:29:55.359 --> 00:29:58.480
getting notified in advice that are a week from now
565
00:29:58.960 --> 00:30:02.599
or tomorrow or three days from now, the job bus
566
00:30:02.680 --> 00:30:03.759
is going to show up.
567
00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:05.720
And if the kids at school were just going to
568
00:30:05.799 --> 00:30:06.480
jab like.
569
00:30:06.440 --> 00:30:09.680
You don't know they show up on don't oh, Well,
570
00:30:09.680 --> 00:30:11.920
that was the understanding. Like I said, I can't confirm
571
00:30:11.960 --> 00:30:14.799
whether it was a rumor or fact, but we were
572
00:30:14.880 --> 00:30:18.200
navigating that because there was huge concern from the parent
573
00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:21.200
community that that was what was going to happen. But
574
00:30:21.240 --> 00:30:22.400
what I can were a.
575
00:30:22.359 --> 00:30:24.720
Principle, while you were the principal, as a job bus
576
00:30:24.720 --> 00:30:26.680
ever showed up or do you know of any instances
577
00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:27.319
were the job bus?
578
00:30:28.200 --> 00:30:31.640
No? No, But like I said, I was dealing with
579
00:30:31.680 --> 00:30:34.400
that level from my parents. But what I couldn't control
580
00:30:34.440 --> 00:30:36.680
what was outside of my control, and what was fact
581
00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:40.880
is that there was a jeb bus is not the
582
00:30:40.920 --> 00:30:44.799
right word station set up that many of my children
583
00:30:44.880 --> 00:30:47.960
had to walk past on their way to school or
584
00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:50.880
on their way home, and even parents were even concerned
585
00:30:50.880 --> 00:30:53.519
about that, and rightly so, because I can't again confirm
586
00:30:53.599 --> 00:30:57.000
this is fact. There was one school in my region
587
00:30:57.440 --> 00:31:01.839
who was paying children fifty dollars cash to get a
588
00:31:01.920 --> 00:31:05.880
jab and there were children who would go around, they'd
589
00:31:05.920 --> 00:31:07.680
get a jab, and then they'd go around and join
590
00:31:07.720 --> 00:31:10.200
the back of the queue and get another one because
591
00:31:10.200 --> 00:31:13.599
they wanted fifty dollars. That is fact. That happened.
592
00:31:14.160 --> 00:31:14.839
That happened.
593
00:31:15.400 --> 00:31:20.960
What okay, all right, I just won't understand. Okay, So
594
00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:24.039
that was like a local initiative of the principle of
595
00:31:24.039 --> 00:31:25.039
that particular school.
596
00:31:25.319 --> 00:31:28.000
Like on what no, I.
597
00:31:27.880 --> 00:31:33.119
Think I think the yeah, I think the coercive issues
598
00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:36.519
were across the board, whether they were sponsored by I mean,
599
00:31:36.559 --> 00:31:40.799
I've written about the interference from the Warehouse Group, for instance,
600
00:31:40.839 --> 00:31:43.440
who were giving out, you know, vouchers to spend on
601
00:31:43.559 --> 00:31:48.359
suitees or whatever, Burger Burger King, you know, we're giving
602
00:31:48.559 --> 00:31:51.640
coupons out or free free fries or whatever it was.
603
00:31:51.680 --> 00:31:54.640
I mean, this was an international phenomena, wasn't it really?
604
00:31:54.680 --> 00:32:01.160
But New Zealand definitely had its own commercial incentives connected
605
00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:04.039
to the pop up the pop up JAB clinics.
606
00:32:04.279 --> 00:32:08.599
Yeah, yeah, this is a wild story, and I really
607
00:32:08.599 --> 00:32:10.799
want to understand the mechanics of it because I've.
608
00:32:10.640 --> 00:32:11.720
Never heard that before.
609
00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:14.960
So so there was like a local initiative of like
610
00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:16.599
you know, some school principles.
611
00:32:16.759 --> 00:32:20.359
Right, No, it wasn't. It wasn't. It was done outside
612
00:32:20.359 --> 00:32:22.960
of schools. It wasn't school principles that.
613
00:32:24.920 --> 00:32:28.559
So whoever it was running that JAB station like came
614
00:32:28.599 --> 00:32:30.599
to the kids and said, oh, kids, like you know,
615
00:32:31.079 --> 00:32:31.880
get a job and.
616
00:32:31.839 --> 00:32:34.519
We'll give you fifty bucks. Yeah. Yeah, who was running
617
00:32:34.519 --> 00:32:37.119
Who was running those jeb in stations? Like a private company?
618
00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:39.559
Oh it was.
619
00:32:39.759 --> 00:32:42.119
There were various groups, to be honest.
620
00:32:42.079 --> 00:32:44.559
Yeah, I don't know. There would be there would be
621
00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:47.559
ewie groups, and that would be Ministry of Health and
622
00:32:47.599 --> 00:32:53.200
there would be local department district health boards now disestablished.
623
00:32:54.599 --> 00:32:56.000
So okay, so.
624
00:32:56.039 --> 00:32:59.000
Kids leave school, right, they walk home or whatever they
625
00:32:59.079 --> 00:33:01.200
want to get picked up by their parents.
626
00:33:01.640 --> 00:33:04.000
There's a person there saying, oh, kids, do you want
627
00:33:04.039 --> 00:33:07.960
fifty bucks? Right, yeah, go and get a JAB and
628
00:33:07.960 --> 00:33:10.200
we give you fifty bucks. Like literally they give them
629
00:33:10.200 --> 00:33:11.519
fifty bucks cash on the spot.
630
00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:13.480
Yes, they're right there on the spot.
631
00:33:13.599 --> 00:33:17.640
Yes, yeah, yeah, no, no form to fill out by
632
00:33:17.680 --> 00:33:18.200
their parents.
633
00:33:18.440 --> 00:33:20.920
No, no, I need to do parents. You don't need
634
00:33:20.960 --> 00:33:21.200
to know.
635
00:33:22.359 --> 00:33:24.359
How old were the kids? Like how how young were
636
00:33:24.359 --> 00:33:24.680
the kids?
637
00:33:24.680 --> 00:33:27.480
I should say we're that particular hub was that was
638
00:33:27.519 --> 00:33:31.319
outside of high school, so it was, yeah, what are
639
00:33:31.359 --> 00:33:33.680
they thirteen to seventeen? Eighteen year olds?
640
00:33:33.680 --> 00:33:36.200
So yeah, that would have been the twelve to twelve
641
00:33:36.200 --> 00:33:39.480
to fifteen rollout June twenty twenty one.
642
00:33:39.680 --> 00:33:43.640
Yeah, yeah, okay, I've heard one story, but I haven't
643
00:33:43.640 --> 00:33:44.359
heard that yet.
644
00:33:44.759 --> 00:33:49.279
Yeah, there walking home, Oh kids, do you want fifty bucks?
645
00:33:49.400 --> 00:33:51.400
Or just come here and get a job and get
646
00:33:51.440 --> 00:33:52.519
fifty bucks?
647
00:33:53.960 --> 00:33:55.279
And some kids at all, but.
648
00:33:55.440 --> 00:33:57.240
I want a hundred bucks because of one hundred and
649
00:33:57.240 --> 00:34:00.440
fifty whatever I want to buy, I don't know, sports
650
00:34:00.519 --> 00:34:01.119
view whatever.
651
00:34:01.519 --> 00:34:03.079
I'm just gonna get it three times.
652
00:34:03.200 --> 00:34:06.599
So yeah, well I don't think anyone had it three times,
653
00:34:06.599 --> 00:34:08.599
but I do know there were kids that head it twice.
654
00:34:09.280 --> 00:34:11.480
Wow, like the same day.
655
00:34:11.519 --> 00:34:14.480
So basically they go to fifty bucks, I'm going to
656
00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:17.559
get another one, and the person that was like handing
657
00:34:17.599 --> 00:34:19.840
out the fifty bucks allow them to do.
658
00:34:19.760 --> 00:34:20.360
That to get you.
659
00:34:22.639 --> 00:34:27.679
Yes, okay, that that's Twilight Zone stuff. But okay, all right, okay,
660
00:34:27.679 --> 00:34:29.480
well we'll get back to the topic. But i just
661
00:34:29.519 --> 00:34:31.760
really wanted to understand it because I've never heard of
662
00:34:31.800 --> 00:34:35.039
this before ever, like in any country. I mean, yeah,
663
00:34:35.079 --> 00:34:36.920
they will offer you, like you a free burgers and
664
00:34:36.920 --> 00:34:39.920
all that sort of stuff, but it's not like like
665
00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:43.440
you know, like literally, it's like like drug dealers, like
666
00:34:43.480 --> 00:34:45.119
you know, in some dark street corner.
667
00:34:45.239 --> 00:34:48.840
I mean that that is just wild. Yeah, all right, okay.
668
00:34:48.960 --> 00:34:51.199
Let's get back to your story, Catherine. I mean, this
669
00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:55.559
is wild, but I mean, all right, okay, wow, okay,
670
00:34:55.679 --> 00:34:59.960
So okay, so you got those like you know, template letters,
671
00:35:00.039 --> 00:35:03.719
You knew what was coming, You had an exemption from
672
00:35:03.760 --> 00:35:06.880
your doctor obviously knew your medical history, and like you know,
673
00:35:06.960 --> 00:35:08.320
rightfully giving you an exemption.
674
00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:13.960
What happened next, well interesting, what happened next really shocked me, actually,
675
00:35:14.039 --> 00:35:18.920
because I was fully expecting vitriol and more attack from
676
00:35:19.079 --> 00:35:23.079
the very visible stand down process that government had implemented,
677
00:35:23.440 --> 00:35:26.519
which I believe was to deliberately shame anybody that wasn't
678
00:35:26.599 --> 00:35:30.400
going to be compliant. So on the November sixteenth, if
679
00:35:30.400 --> 00:35:33.760
you didn't turn up back at your school community you
680
00:35:33.840 --> 00:35:38.760
could it was assumed that you were unvaccinated. So interestingly,
681
00:35:38.800 --> 00:35:42.000
on the sixteenth of November, I didn't go back to school.
682
00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:46.280
I fielded quite a few calls from parents. One parent,
683
00:35:46.360 --> 00:35:50.239
I remember it, it's just like yesterday, are you on
684
00:35:50.280 --> 00:35:55.719
a course? And I said no, So are you busy
685
00:35:56.159 --> 00:36:00.920
in another school doing other stuff? I said, no? Are
686
00:36:00.960 --> 00:36:01.960
you coming back tomorrow?
687
00:36:02.519 --> 00:36:02.599
No?
688
00:36:04.159 --> 00:36:05.199
Are you vaccinated?
689
00:36:05.679 --> 00:36:05.880
No?
690
00:36:06.400 --> 00:36:12.400
Are you going to get vaccinated? No? Now, obviously I
691
00:36:12.440 --> 00:36:14.800
thought that that was going to be because that was
692
00:36:14.840 --> 00:36:18.440
the first time my parent community actually was aware of
693
00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:20.679
my stance because up until that point I had not
694
00:36:20.760 --> 00:36:23.800
discussed it with anybody. My staff got told the day
695
00:36:23.840 --> 00:36:26.639
before that I wasn't going to be coming back, So
696
00:36:27.039 --> 00:36:29.639
you know, it just was like a silent We weren't
697
00:36:29.639 --> 00:36:31.039
allowed to talk about it, so I didn't.
698
00:36:32.199 --> 00:36:34.880
But once my parents, who told you, so, okay, you
699
00:36:34.920 --> 00:36:36.760
said that, like, you know, the sixteenth of November, you
700
00:36:36.800 --> 00:36:38.320
just didn't show up. But like, I mean, you you
701
00:36:38.519 --> 00:36:41.280
the school principle, right, You're not the teacher. So who
702
00:36:41.280 --> 00:36:43.400
told you? Like who told you not to show up? Like,
703
00:36:43.760 --> 00:36:45.519
don't show up or there'll be trouble? Like, I mean,
704
00:36:45.559 --> 00:36:47.840
how does that work? How does the mechanic of their work.
705
00:36:48.679 --> 00:36:53.559
So again that information came through the the It wasn't
706
00:36:53.599 --> 00:36:56.719
just the education sector, it was the staff the health
707
00:36:56.760 --> 00:36:59.719
sector as well. We were all told that if we
708
00:36:59.800 --> 00:37:03.360
had had the first vaccination by November the fifteenth, we
709
00:37:03.360 --> 00:37:06.199
were not allowed to show up the following day, and
710
00:37:06.280 --> 00:37:09.000
if we did, anybody in our school community could ring
711
00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:10.159
the police on us.
712
00:37:11.320 --> 00:37:16.519
Right, Okay, So obviously as a result, you basically decided
713
00:37:16.559 --> 00:37:18.280
not to show up, like, you know, voluntarily.
714
00:37:19.119 --> 00:37:21.880
I was going to school right through that period. I
715
00:37:21.920 --> 00:37:25.280
was going to school before, like from sort of six
716
00:37:25.320 --> 00:37:26.920
in the morning till eight in the morning. I was
717
00:37:26.920 --> 00:37:29.159
made sure I got out of the school by eight
718
00:37:29.199 --> 00:37:31.559
when the still when the children started to tune up,
719
00:37:31.920 --> 00:37:33.599
and then I would also go back to school at
720
00:37:33.679 --> 00:37:35.920
four when that all left for the day. So I
721
00:37:36.039 --> 00:37:38.199
was still going to the school to do my work,
722
00:37:38.679 --> 00:37:40.239
A lot of it I could do at home. But
723
00:37:40.760 --> 00:37:44.199
I was still on this, you know, still attending school premises,
724
00:37:44.719 --> 00:37:46.800
but just outside of school hours.
725
00:37:48.119 --> 00:37:50.440
Okay, So what was happening at the school, Like, you know,
726
00:37:50.519 --> 00:37:54.400
the principal hasn't showed up and he's unlikely to show up.
727
00:37:55.480 --> 00:37:57.360
What happens, Like, I mean, how does that work?
728
00:37:58.639 --> 00:38:01.440
Well? I we ended up having an acting principle somebody
729
00:38:01.480 --> 00:38:05.440
else that falled in for me during the day. But
730
00:38:05.480 --> 00:38:08.320
I just just go back to the thing that was
731
00:38:08.320 --> 00:38:12.679
really surprising for me in my school community, because as
732
00:38:12.719 --> 00:38:15.960
I said, I think the intentions from the government were
733
00:38:16.239 --> 00:38:19.519
to make the whole process really visible, was to kind
734
00:38:19.599 --> 00:38:24.199
of make it a possibility that people will be identified
735
00:38:24.599 --> 00:38:27.639
and therefore there'll be more victrio towards them, because there
736
00:38:27.639 --> 00:38:29.599
already had been. You know, it was already ramping up
737
00:38:29.599 --> 00:38:33.679
that anybody that didn't comply was going to be dehumanized,
738
00:38:33.719 --> 00:38:36.000
you know, really attacked, and so I was expecting that,
739
00:38:36.559 --> 00:38:40.039
but in actual fact, in my school community, the opposite happened.
740
00:38:40.119 --> 00:38:43.440
It was amazing because once one parent knew, it didn't
741
00:38:43.440 --> 00:38:46.880
take long before the entire school community was told. And
742
00:38:47.199 --> 00:38:50.280
in my community, I was already close to my families.
743
00:38:50.320 --> 00:38:53.239
I already had really good community relationships because remember it's
744
00:38:53.280 --> 00:38:57.840
a small school. But this particular act of me not
745
00:38:57.960 --> 00:39:01.719
being able to come back to school, it really really
746
00:39:01.880 --> 00:39:04.239
just opened up the flood dates and united us something
747
00:39:04.280 --> 00:39:07.000
unbelievable because all of my parents, well not all of them,
748
00:39:07.039 --> 00:39:10.079
but by far the majority of my parents were not
749
00:39:10.480 --> 00:39:14.119
going to vaccinate themselves, and they were in a situation
750
00:39:14.199 --> 00:39:16.599
where they were steering down down the barrel of losing
751
00:39:16.599 --> 00:39:21.360
their homes, businesses, jobs, so they just really empathized and
752
00:39:21.440 --> 00:39:24.800
rallied around me and supported me, and I did the
753
00:39:24.840 --> 00:39:27.599
same to them. But I know that that was unusual
754
00:39:27.639 --> 00:39:30.760
because I know in most school communities it would have
755
00:39:30.840 --> 00:39:33.360
had the desired and pact that the government was hoping for.
756
00:39:35.199 --> 00:39:40.559
As Catherine, just to add about the exemptions, because we
757
00:39:40.639 --> 00:39:43.000
skipped the fact that you had an exemption, but then
758
00:39:43.039 --> 00:39:47.360
of course the law was changed and the exemptions were revoked,
759
00:39:47.639 --> 00:39:48.599
so they weren't.
760
00:39:50.079 --> 00:39:54.880
Yes, So I mean, again, this might not be accurate
761
00:39:54.960 --> 00:39:59.199
because I'm just not sure whether it was a rumored
762
00:39:59.239 --> 00:40:02.880
figure there. What I was told was there about thirty
763
00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:09.000
thousand people who had exemptions in the in the education sector,
764
00:40:09.519 --> 00:40:13.960
and overnight the government decided to revoke the clause for
765
00:40:14.079 --> 00:40:18.599
exemptions and therefore they basically weren't worth the paper they
766
00:40:18.599 --> 00:40:20.960
were written on. So the only way you could then
767
00:40:21.039 --> 00:40:25.360
get an exemption was to apply through your doctor to
768
00:40:25.840 --> 00:40:30.360
Ashley Bloomfield. And my understanding is, in fact, I never
769
00:40:30.440 --> 00:40:34.719
met anybody that was successful at getting a It's.
770
00:40:34.519 --> 00:40:37.239
Not for the benefit of our international audience. Who is
771
00:40:37.280 --> 00:40:39.880
actually Bloomfield or who was actually Blomfield at the time.
772
00:40:41.920 --> 00:40:43.440
What was his titles?
773
00:40:43.679 --> 00:40:48.000
He was like a Director General of Health, yeah right, right,
774
00:40:48.039 --> 00:40:50.519
and he's now and it's now a sir. He's Sir
775
00:40:50.679 --> 00:40:56.119
Ashley Boomfield, madam, yes.
776
00:40:56.480 --> 00:41:01.639
Yeah, yeah. So basically trying to get an exemption through
777
00:41:01.719 --> 00:41:04.800
him was virtually impossible and right.
778
00:41:04.800 --> 00:41:08.599
And he's of course very familiar with everyone's medical history
779
00:41:08.840 --> 00:41:12.199
in great detail, so when you apply for an exemption,
780
00:41:12.320 --> 00:41:15.039
he knows all your medical history, everything that has happened
781
00:41:15.079 --> 00:41:16.360
to you since you were a child.
782
00:41:16.679 --> 00:41:19.159
And of course he can easily assess like you or
783
00:41:19.239 --> 00:41:21.719
whatever like in a ten thousand or one hundred thousand
784
00:41:21.880 --> 00:41:25.239
applications for exemptions because he knows everyone's history and he's
785
00:41:25.360 --> 00:41:27.119
very smart and he's an amazing doctor.
786
00:41:27.159 --> 00:41:29.079
So I'm joking that, but I just had to put
787
00:41:29.079 --> 00:41:30.159
it out there, Okay.
788
00:41:31.360 --> 00:41:34.360
Yeah, But like I say, I never met a single
789
00:41:34.400 --> 00:41:37.559
person who was successful getting an exemption through him, right,
790
00:41:37.639 --> 00:41:40.679
and again the government just decided to push up that
791
00:41:40.800 --> 00:41:44.440
message that there's only three hundred people, three hundred people
792
00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:48.760
and the entire country who were eligible for an exemption
793
00:41:48.880 --> 00:41:52.920
through him, because it was only if you had a
794
00:41:53.119 --> 00:41:56.199
proof or evidence that you were alludic to one ingredient
795
00:41:56.239 --> 00:41:58.280
in the vaccine, which I can't remember what that was,
796
00:41:58.360 --> 00:42:01.199
but basically they were what they were saying is that
797
00:42:01.599 --> 00:42:04.400
you won't get an exemption through him unless you can
798
00:42:04.519 --> 00:42:08.000
prove that you have analogy to this particular substance in
799
00:42:08.079 --> 00:42:10.039
the in the vaccine.
800
00:42:10.239 --> 00:42:13.239
Yeah, okay, so it actually it actually said in the
801
00:42:13.280 --> 00:42:17.920
wording in the legislation that it didn't matter basically whether
802
00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:22.239
you were pregnant, whether you you know it, had a
803
00:42:22.679 --> 00:42:26.400
previous reactions bad reaction to a vaccine, or whatever, none
804
00:42:26.440 --> 00:42:30.280
of none of that was actually applicable. That didn't automatically
805
00:42:31.639 --> 00:42:33.679
provide access to an exemption.
806
00:42:34.440 --> 00:42:37.639
And I also know of evil. I also know I
807
00:42:37.960 --> 00:42:40.480
also know of people who were actually harmed after taking
808
00:42:40.519 --> 00:42:44.960
the first vaccine, like seriously harmed, significantly harmed, like heart attacks,
809
00:42:44.960 --> 00:42:47.800
that kind of thing, and they still weren't able to
810
00:42:47.840 --> 00:42:49.920
get an exemption. They still had to go and have
811
00:42:49.960 --> 00:42:54.239
a second a second shot to keep their jobs. I
812
00:42:54.280 --> 00:42:57.960
know a principal colleague friend of mine who had actually
813
00:42:58.000 --> 00:43:03.039
had three heart attacks prior to the vaccine mandate coming in,
814
00:43:03.639 --> 00:43:05.800
and so he was not wanting to take it either.
815
00:43:05.840 --> 00:43:07.480
But where he could prove that, you know, he had
816
00:43:07.519 --> 00:43:09.360
all the evidence to prove that he'd had these three
817
00:43:09.360 --> 00:43:11.239
heart attacks, and the reason he wasn't taking it was
818
00:43:11.280 --> 00:43:13.760
because he didn't want to have the risk of another
819
00:43:13.800 --> 00:43:16.840
heart attack. And even with all of that vaccine history
820
00:43:16.880 --> 00:43:19.920
and all of that history medical history, they still would
821
00:43:19.920 --> 00:43:21.519
not give him an exemption.
822
00:43:23.559 --> 00:43:27.599
Yeah all right, Okay, so I guess what I'm trying
823
00:43:27.639 --> 00:43:30.159
to understand. Just to go back to one of your
824
00:43:30.159 --> 00:43:33.719
previous points, so you said that on the sixteenth of November,
825
00:43:33.760 --> 00:43:36.719
you started getting calls basically from parents.
826
00:43:36.320 --> 00:43:38.440
Like two kids in your school like why are you?
827
00:43:38.480 --> 00:43:39.360
Why are You're not at school?
828
00:43:39.360 --> 00:43:41.599
So you were not even allowed to tell anyone in
829
00:43:41.679 --> 00:43:44.280
advance that, like, you know, you won't be around, like
830
00:43:44.360 --> 00:43:46.599
I mean, obviously came as a surprise for people.
831
00:43:47.360 --> 00:43:49.840
Yeah. It was suggested by the ministry that we just
832
00:43:50.199 --> 00:43:53.280
keep things as calm as possible.
833
00:43:54.639 --> 00:43:55.599
The school principle.
834
00:43:59.559 --> 00:44:03.000
All right, yeah, so, which is what I did. And
835
00:44:03.360 --> 00:44:06.440
I just thought, well, actually, I don't really want everybody
836
00:44:06.440 --> 00:44:09.519
knowing my medical history. I mean, as it turned out,
837
00:44:09.559 --> 00:44:12.000
I did write a little note and I tried to
838
00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:13.800
deliver that to as many parents as possible that I
839
00:44:13.840 --> 00:44:16.599
wouldn't be coming back. But if I'm lucky, probably ten
840
00:44:16.840 --> 00:44:20.800
fifteen families got that in advance, but the majority of
841
00:44:20.800 --> 00:44:23.840
them didn't, hence the phone calls the next day. But
842
00:44:24.039 --> 00:44:27.039
like I said, I in my community it had the
843
00:44:27.039 --> 00:44:31.159
opposite effect. I was really fortunate. It actually united US closer.
844
00:44:32.280 --> 00:44:36.239
Yeah, Okay, so once I guess you were stood down
845
00:44:36.400 --> 00:44:39.639
kind of like essentially by your well, but the government mandate.
846
00:44:39.719 --> 00:44:42.000
But I mean you really like you know, decided kind
847
00:44:42.039 --> 00:44:45.400
of like you know, send down yourself. So what was like,
848
00:44:45.440 --> 00:44:47.880
you know, your situation like in terms of employment, so
849
00:44:47.920 --> 00:44:51.639
that like constitutes what leave without pay or like you know,
850
00:44:52.079 --> 00:44:54.199
our resignation or what was it?
851
00:44:54.840 --> 00:44:57.679
So I was, again, I was in a fortunate position
852
00:44:57.719 --> 00:44:59.760
being a principal, I think, because I do know that
853
00:45:00.280 --> 00:45:05.360
teachers or support staff like teacherades, cleaners, that that sort
854
00:45:05.360 --> 00:45:08.360
of thing they were. They were basically on the sixteenth
855
00:45:08.440 --> 00:45:12.880
of November, they were given the notice of termination, which
856
00:45:12.920 --> 00:45:15.639
meant they had well I don't think teacher aides did,
857
00:45:15.639 --> 00:45:17.960
but I know that teachers were given an eight week payout.
858
00:45:18.519 --> 00:45:23.639
I believe support staff probably didn't get anything. So we
859
00:45:23.679 --> 00:45:26.599
did get like an eight week payout. But my situation
860
00:45:26.719 --> 00:45:31.239
was a little bit extended because I ended up well,
861
00:45:31.880 --> 00:45:33.840
a whole lot of things happened, and I ended up
862
00:45:33.840 --> 00:45:36.800
being on sickly for some time. So I didn't actually
863
00:45:36.800 --> 00:45:40.800
get terminated until the first of April twenty twenty two.
864
00:45:42.119 --> 00:45:45.360
And then again there was no consistency of how this
865
00:45:45.519 --> 00:45:49.360
was actually administered because the other thing was principals or
866
00:45:50.119 --> 00:45:53.159
teachers who were living in Auckland at the time. They
867
00:45:53.199 --> 00:45:55.639
were advantaged even more because at the time they were
868
00:45:55.639 --> 00:45:58.000
in a lockdown that lasted one hundred days or more,
869
00:45:58.400 --> 00:46:01.039
so they ended up getting additional time. You know, some
870
00:46:01.079 --> 00:46:05.559
of them weren't actually terminated till May June because they
871
00:46:05.599 --> 00:46:09.480
had that nothing happened while they were in lockdown, because
872
00:46:09.480 --> 00:46:12.280
they weren't able to attend their school premises anyway.
873
00:46:12.360 --> 00:46:17.079
Or you know kids, Wow, okay, so do you know?
874
00:46:17.159 --> 00:46:18.199
I mean, I don't know if you would know that
875
00:46:18.320 --> 00:46:19.039
of the top of your door.
876
00:46:19.079 --> 00:46:19.840
Maybe you'res know.
877
00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:24.360
So how many educators the system lost on November sixteenth,
878
00:46:26.679 --> 00:46:27.639
we don't.
879
00:46:27.440 --> 00:46:30.679
Know for sure, but we do think there would have
880
00:46:30.719 --> 00:46:34.880
been around well, they say we know of two about
881
00:46:34.920 --> 00:46:37.960
two thousand, and they say that you have to multiply
882
00:46:38.039 --> 00:46:39.719
that by a number. What was it again news that
883
00:46:39.760 --> 00:46:40.519
I can't remember.
884
00:46:41.480 --> 00:46:44.639
I don't know. I think it's lost, to be honest,
885
00:46:44.679 --> 00:46:48.280
that that figure because as you've explained, you know, it
886
00:46:48.320 --> 00:46:52.360
was a long time, long period where people were either
887
00:46:52.480 --> 00:46:55.079
off sick with the stress of it all, off sick
888
00:46:55.119 --> 00:46:58.719
because maybe they'd had one vaccine and it had a
889
00:46:58.800 --> 00:47:02.320
damaging effect on their health. That had other issues going on.
890
00:47:02.960 --> 00:47:05.559
But you know, combined with you know, we've got an
891
00:47:05.599 --> 00:47:08.679
older population in New Zealand, a lot of people don't
892
00:47:08.719 --> 00:47:12.760
retire at a you know, a specific retirement age. They
893
00:47:12.800 --> 00:47:15.840
just keep working. And personal levels of personal debt are
894
00:47:15.920 --> 00:47:19.760
very high. That's one reason why that happens so instantly.
895
00:47:19.840 --> 00:47:24.760
You've got lots of people who are maybe contractors part time,
896
00:47:25.079 --> 00:47:28.519
they're in retirement. Some of them are volunteers. Remember as well,
897
00:47:28.760 --> 00:47:31.480
in the education sector, I was one of those working
898
00:47:31.480 --> 00:47:35.920
in the prison service, you know, Department of Corrections. You know,
899
00:47:36.400 --> 00:47:42.440
all of those people were gradually lost to the system,
900
00:47:42.480 --> 00:47:45.880
and nobody really that the data just doesn't exist in
901
00:47:45.960 --> 00:47:48.920
terms of counting how many people were lost from the
902
00:47:49.039 --> 00:47:53.719
education same with the healthcare sector and other sectors. It's
903
00:47:53.880 --> 00:47:57.880
very sad that those stories haven't been told. And we'll
904
00:47:57.880 --> 00:48:01.159
never really know the truth, but certainly thousands of people
905
00:48:01.239 --> 00:48:02.960
were impacted.
906
00:48:04.239 --> 00:48:07.239
Right, Okay, So okay, So for you, Catherine, obviously you
907
00:48:07.280 --> 00:48:09.079
had a little bit of a time now just because
908
00:48:09.079 --> 00:48:11.440
of like you know, some personal circumstances that'll allow you
909
00:48:11.480 --> 00:48:13.599
to kind of stay within the system.
910
00:48:13.679 --> 00:48:16.400
Right, So you were you haven't like completely I guess
911
00:48:16.440 --> 00:48:19.880
lost your position and your income, but I mean at
912
00:48:19.880 --> 00:48:22.320
some point you were kind of in a situation where okay,
913
00:48:23.119 --> 00:48:26.480
you either do this or you or you're gone, like permanently, right,
914
00:48:26.880 --> 00:48:29.440
that's right. What was going through your head when when
915
00:48:29.440 --> 00:48:29.960
that happened?
916
00:48:30.880 --> 00:48:33.559
So, I mean I had about probably four to six
917
00:48:33.599 --> 00:48:36.760
weeks of unpaid of not getting paid, because I did
918
00:48:36.800 --> 00:48:39.280
get the eight weeks payout, but then it took a
919
00:48:39.280 --> 00:48:42.840
while to actually become re employed. So there was a
920
00:48:42.840 --> 00:48:46.960
period of time where I wasn't getting any pay. And obviously,
921
00:48:47.039 --> 00:48:48.880
I mean I at the time, I was a single parent,
922
00:48:48.920 --> 00:48:51.960
I had dependent children at home, I had no back
923
00:48:52.039 --> 00:48:57.920
up income, so it was hugely worrying, so much so
924
00:48:58.239 --> 00:49:00.119
actually one of my children in up in hospit, but
925
00:49:00.159 --> 00:49:02.480
all for mental health reasons because they were so worried
926
00:49:02.519 --> 00:49:06.400
about the long term invocations of having no money.
927
00:49:07.039 --> 00:49:13.440
Yeah, wow, yeah, okay, all right. So so I mean terrible,
928
00:49:13.519 --> 00:49:15.360
terrible situation to me, and I can't even like, I mean,
929
00:49:15.400 --> 00:49:17.199
can't even imagine, like, you know, how do you kind
930
00:49:17.199 --> 00:49:17.920
of like reconcile.
931
00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:19.719
So so what did you do? Like, I mean, what
932
00:49:19.719 --> 00:49:21.440
what what did you do? Did you try?
933
00:49:21.800 --> 00:49:24.039
Like was there any avinue for you to get like,
934
00:49:24.079 --> 00:49:26.000
you know, your job back or was there any like
935
00:49:26.239 --> 00:49:29.039
obviously exemptions were like you know, basically that option was
936
00:49:29.039 --> 00:49:29.920
removed completely.
937
00:49:30.559 --> 00:49:32.760
So what what options were still on the table?
938
00:49:34.360 --> 00:49:36.880
I mean for some people it was possible to have
939
00:49:37.119 --> 00:49:40.679
to get their jobs back. I may have been in
940
00:49:40.679 --> 00:49:43.719
that situation, but I can't be sure because I didn't
941
00:49:43.719 --> 00:49:47.719
pursue it because other things had happened between me and
942
00:49:47.760 --> 00:49:49.760
the board during that time and I didn't I had
943
00:49:49.760 --> 00:49:53.239
no trust. I've completely lost my trust. So but there
944
00:49:53.280 --> 00:49:57.280
were opportunities for some people to go back, but it
945
00:49:57.320 --> 00:49:59.880
took a while. And I think, I think, if I'm honest,
946
00:50:00.119 --> 00:50:02.079
most people were in a similar situation to me, where
947
00:50:02.079 --> 00:50:05.119
they just felt like we've lost trust in the sector.
948
00:50:06.239 --> 00:50:08.599
There was nobody there to support us when we needed it,
949
00:50:08.679 --> 00:50:11.719
like our unions. I'd paid thousands of dollars to my union,
950
00:50:12.159 --> 00:50:14.719
and when it metted, I was told, good luck, there's
951
00:50:14.719 --> 00:50:17.599
nothing I can do for you. Yeah, you know, not
952
00:50:18.039 --> 00:50:20.920
only did we lose trust in the actual school community
953
00:50:21.039 --> 00:50:22.679
of you know, the people we're working with, but it
954
00:50:22.800 --> 00:50:25.000
was it was the higher levels of like the Ministry
955
00:50:25.000 --> 00:50:29.440
of Education, the department. I actually rung my New Zealand
956
00:50:29.519 --> 00:50:32.960
Principal Federation president. He said he'd get back to me.
957
00:50:33.039 --> 00:50:37.280
He never did. Unions never supported us. There was just
958
00:50:37.440 --> 00:50:40.079
nothing to support us and help us with this situation.
959
00:50:40.320 --> 00:50:44.880
So when you're in I mean I knew, you know,
960
00:50:44.920 --> 00:50:46.880
I'd been working as a principal for twelve years, and
961
00:50:47.280 --> 00:50:50.440
I knew the system, and I knew that I knew
962
00:50:50.480 --> 00:50:54.440
employment enough to know that you can't just sack someone
963
00:50:54.519 --> 00:50:57.519
without you know, a number of support options and a
964
00:50:57.599 --> 00:51:00.920
number of avenues. And I just thought how difficult at
965
00:51:00.960 --> 00:51:02.679
the time it was to get rid of a teacher
966
00:51:02.719 --> 00:51:04.039
and not from want of a bit of way of
967
00:51:04.119 --> 00:51:06.599
putting it to you know, get rid of a teacher
968
00:51:06.599 --> 00:51:09.480
who wasn't doing what we expected of them or meeting
969
00:51:09.519 --> 00:51:11.559
the expectations, and how hard it was. I mean, they
970
00:51:12.119 --> 00:51:14.800
had so much support offered to them through the unions,
971
00:51:15.760 --> 00:51:18.400
and none of that was there for us nothing.
972
00:51:19.760 --> 00:51:23.880
Yeah, it was. It was really like living a parallel
973
00:51:24.559 --> 00:51:28.519
existence then, because we did have small local groups like
974
00:51:28.559 --> 00:51:32.239
the Voices of Freedom and that there was a teacher's
975
00:51:32.239 --> 00:51:35.880
group that was you know, a community of like minded
976
00:51:35.920 --> 00:51:40.159
people that were sharing their stories, and and yet we
977
00:51:40.159 --> 00:51:43.599
weren't being heard, and that censorship and you know, that
978
00:51:43.719 --> 00:51:48.480
era of really intense fear mongering and us being labeled
979
00:51:48.480 --> 00:51:51.599
as all kinds of you know, lepers, kind of you know,
980
00:51:51.679 --> 00:51:55.360
spreading disease, et cetera, thanks to Justinda's propaganda that you
981
00:51:55.400 --> 00:52:00.320
showed at the beginning of the podcast. Michael, it was. Yeah,
982
00:52:00.320 --> 00:52:02.239
it was a very strange time, wasn't it.
983
00:52:02.920 --> 00:52:04.960
I mean another example I had just to come to
984
00:52:04.960 --> 00:52:06.360
mind when you were talking or so I was. I
985
00:52:06.400 --> 00:52:09.000
actually run I rung my because every principle has a
986
00:52:09.039 --> 00:52:11.639
senior advisor from the Ministry of Education. So I rung
987
00:52:11.679 --> 00:52:14.840
my senior advisor. That didn't go anywhere. So then I
988
00:52:14.880 --> 00:52:18.719
actually rung the Ministry of Education regional manager for my
989
00:52:19.360 --> 00:52:23.360
area and spoke to her and I said, look, I'll
990
00:52:23.360 --> 00:52:28.599
do rat tests daily, I'll do Can I work from home?
991
00:52:28.639 --> 00:52:30.440
Can I work in my office to shut the door,
992
00:52:30.559 --> 00:52:32.760
not let anybody come near me or you know, if
993
00:52:32.840 --> 00:52:35.199
they want to, they can, but obviously they don't have to.
994
00:52:35.800 --> 00:52:38.320
I just gave you many, many options of what I
995
00:52:38.360 --> 00:52:40.320
could do in order to try and keep my job,
996
00:52:41.000 --> 00:52:45.400
and at every every offer or suggestion, I was just told, no,
997
00:52:45.840 --> 00:52:47.920
you have to vaccinate. You vaccinated. It was almost like
998
00:52:47.920 --> 00:52:49.079
they were reading from a template.
999
00:52:50.360 --> 00:52:53.679
But from a template. Yeah really, But.
1000
00:52:54.039 --> 00:52:57.679
Interestingly about I don't know how much longer. It probably
1001
00:52:57.719 --> 00:52:59.719
might have been a couple of years later that I
1002
00:52:59.760 --> 00:53:03.159
did oh I Official Information Act request to find out
1003
00:53:03.599 --> 00:53:08.480
what the conditions were for the Ministry of Health, sorry,
1004
00:53:08.480 --> 00:53:11.760
the Ministry of Education sector. And what I found out
1005
00:53:11.840 --> 00:53:14.360
was that only forty one percent of their staff had
1006
00:53:14.360 --> 00:53:18.119
to vaccinate, and the rest of them were able to
1007
00:53:18.159 --> 00:53:20.920
do those exact things that I'd suggested, like take daily
1008
00:53:20.960 --> 00:53:24.559
rec tests, work from home, work in their officers. So
1009
00:53:24.599 --> 00:53:28.039
they were basically the very things that I asked them
1010
00:53:28.199 --> 00:53:31.159
for were the things that were granted to them. They
1011
00:53:31.199 --> 00:53:32.079
were allowed to do that.
1012
00:53:32.440 --> 00:53:35.000
But not And just to pick up on that that
1013
00:53:35.159 --> 00:53:38.679
was the same in other ministries and even work Safe
1014
00:53:38.719 --> 00:53:42.679
you know, the Health and Safety Executive equivalent work safe
1015
00:53:42.719 --> 00:53:47.199
en Z that those staff were not mandated to take
1016
00:53:47.239 --> 00:53:49.599
the jabs. So they were sent, some of them to
1017
00:53:50.280 --> 00:53:54.960
supposedly inspect workplaces to make sure that people were vaccinated
1018
00:53:55.519 --> 00:53:59.960
in verticonas in certain roles, to reduce the risk those
1019
00:54:00.199 --> 00:54:07.320
people those inspectors themselves may not have been vaccinated. It's
1020
00:54:07.440 --> 00:54:12.920
just insane, it's totally it's totally hypocritical, and you know,
1021
00:54:13.679 --> 00:54:17.440
it's just it was so dustopian that that whole era.
1022
00:54:17.960 --> 00:54:20.239
And very interestingly another thing like for me as a
1023
00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:23.280
school principal, I wasn't allowed on site and I was
1024
00:54:23.280 --> 00:54:25.679
told that if anyone sees me on site, they can
1025
00:54:25.679 --> 00:54:30.000
call the police. And yet my unvaccinated pearents were allowed
1026
00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:32.440
to go into the school classrooms every day, pick up
1027
00:54:32.480 --> 00:54:34.760
the kids, walk around the school, do whatever they liked,
1028
00:54:35.400 --> 00:54:38.239
and vaccinated parents were allowed on school, but I was
1029
00:54:38.280 --> 00:54:39.159
not allowed on school.
1030
00:54:39.440 --> 00:54:39.800
Yeah.
1031
00:54:39.880 --> 00:54:42.800
Yeah, I mean it's obvious. I mean, it's obvious to
1032
00:54:42.800 --> 00:54:43.239
everyone else.
1033
00:54:43.239 --> 00:54:47.079
The whole whole, whole policies were like, you know, completely nonsensical.
1034
00:54:47.119 --> 00:54:48.920
And that was not just in New Zealand, but I mean,
1035
00:54:49.719 --> 00:54:51.599
I mean just basically, and every time I speak to
1036
00:54:51.599 --> 00:54:54.719
someone from New Zealand, I kind of unconvinced again that
1037
00:54:55.480 --> 00:54:58.280
you guys did something really wild, like some pretty wild stuff.
1038
00:54:59.360 --> 00:54:59.840
Canada is.
1039
00:55:00.360 --> 00:55:02.280
I mean, I mean, Canada is still probably be in
1040
00:55:02.280 --> 00:55:04.159
a legal of its own, but I mean even compared
1041
00:55:04.159 --> 00:55:04.760
to Australia.
1042
00:55:04.840 --> 00:55:06.960
I mean some of the things that you had absolutely
1043
00:55:07.000 --> 00:55:07.639
make no sense.
1044
00:55:07.679 --> 00:55:11.039
And I mean literally people waiting for kids in like
1045
00:55:11.239 --> 00:55:12.480
dark street corners.
1046
00:55:12.760 --> 00:55:14.960
Hey do you want fifty bucks? Canada?
1047
00:55:15.320 --> 00:55:17.800
I mean, this is just insane, all right anyway, I
1048
00:55:17.840 --> 00:55:19.320
mean that that could be like, you know, a three
1049
00:55:19.320 --> 00:55:20.719
hour discussion all by itself.
1050
00:55:21.079 --> 00:55:23.559
But I guess I want to go back to you, Catherine,
1051
00:55:23.559 --> 00:55:25.519
and I guess in your case, like you.
1052
00:55:25.440 --> 00:55:27.719
Know, at some point there was, like I guess, a
1053
00:55:27.760 --> 00:55:31.679
disciplinary process that started happening for you, right, So I
1054
00:55:31.719 --> 00:55:35.079
wanted to understand, first of all, why did it start right,
1055
00:55:35.199 --> 00:55:37.199
who started it right?
1056
00:55:37.440 --> 00:55:39.400
And why did it entail?
1057
00:55:40.960 --> 00:55:45.480
So I mean, there's just so much it's hard to
1058
00:55:45.840 --> 00:55:49.239
sort of condense it. But what actually happened is because
1059
00:55:49.320 --> 00:55:51.679
I was in a community where there was a lot
1060
00:55:51.679 --> 00:55:56.400
of social harm that was happening as a result of lockdowns.
1061
00:55:56.480 --> 00:56:01.760
But my school actually had a COVID outbreak, and so
1062
00:56:02.960 --> 00:56:05.760
while the majority of my families were fine, they could
1063
00:56:05.840 --> 00:56:09.320
navigate that with no issue, I was very conscious of
1064
00:56:09.360 --> 00:56:12.599
the families like the examples I discussed earlier, you know,
1065
00:56:12.679 --> 00:56:16.599
the single parents, the parents I knew with mental illness, addictions,
1066
00:56:18.480 --> 00:56:21.599
family harm, you know, all of those sorts of circumstances.
1067
00:56:21.599 --> 00:56:23.639
So I was very aware of those families, and I
1068
00:56:23.719 --> 00:56:28.840
felt that this quarantine situation, on top of what we'd
1069
00:56:28.840 --> 00:56:31.519
already experienced dosignation with all these lockdowns, it was just
1070
00:56:31.599 --> 00:56:34.800
kind of like the the ice that broke, you know,
1071
00:56:34.920 --> 00:56:37.599
it's this last thing they needed, particularly because it was
1072
00:56:37.719 --> 00:56:43.920
right on Christmas New Year. So I was getting regular
1073
00:56:44.079 --> 00:56:48.000
daily contacts from a number of parents saying wanting me
1074
00:56:48.079 --> 00:56:51.320
to help them understand the requirements that they were being
1075
00:56:51.320 --> 00:56:53.800
given by the Ministry of Health, because so much of
1076
00:56:53.840 --> 00:56:56.199
it didn't make sense. And I was doing my best
1077
00:56:56.199 --> 00:56:59.159
to interpret that information and you know, tell them to
1078
00:56:59.159 --> 00:57:01.039
go back to the doctor, back to whoever that they
1079
00:57:01.039 --> 00:57:06.480
needed to get the clarity from. But when you know,
1080
00:57:06.559 --> 00:57:09.880
a large number of them tested positive, the children tested positive,
1081
00:57:11.519 --> 00:57:14.159
and so they were instantly put into a quarantine situation.
1082
00:57:15.000 --> 00:57:17.400
And at that time, this was before rats were and
1083
00:57:17.760 --> 00:57:21.559
came into the country. They were actually told they couldn't
1084
00:57:21.599 --> 00:57:24.880
leave their home. So this included if they had a
1085
00:57:25.199 --> 00:57:27.239
like if they had a family member that was working.
1086
00:57:27.559 --> 00:57:29.920
There were even restrictions on that person that they had
1087
00:57:29.960 --> 00:57:32.400
to go straight to work, come straight home. They weren't
1088
00:57:32.400 --> 00:57:34.079
allowed to go out into the community and get what
1089
00:57:34.119 --> 00:57:35.559
they needed all that. You know, there was just so
1090
00:57:35.719 --> 00:57:39.719
much information that was really really hard for them to understand,
1091
00:57:39.800 --> 00:57:45.320
and a lot it was conflicting actually, so basically because
1092
00:57:45.360 --> 00:57:49.320
I had so many concerns about the actual social impact
1093
00:57:49.440 --> 00:57:57.639
of the quarantine situation, not so much the actual yes COVID. Yeah,
1094
00:57:58.360 --> 00:58:00.519
like none of us were really worried about COVID because
1095
00:58:00.599 --> 00:58:04.079
a lot of the people that tested positive weren't even.
1096
00:58:03.960 --> 00:58:08.039
Sick, overwhelming majority, especially kids.
1097
00:58:08.079 --> 00:58:10.400
Yeah yeah, in fact, in fact, I think the worst
1098
00:58:10.519 --> 00:58:11.960
the one that I found it was worse to have
1099
00:58:12.239 --> 00:58:15.159
had a headache and a sore throat, So you know,
1100
00:58:15.599 --> 00:58:21.320
the actual symptoms weren't worrying. But once I started talking
1101
00:58:21.320 --> 00:58:23.639
about this with my families, they all agreed that we
1102
00:58:23.719 --> 00:58:25.800
decided the best thing we could do was to get
1103
00:58:25.840 --> 00:58:30.000
the children's tests rechecked by another doctor, just like a
1104
00:58:30.000 --> 00:58:31.920
second opinion, which is what you do if you had
1105
00:58:31.920 --> 00:58:34.639
a disease or anything like that. You just want to
1106
00:58:34.639 --> 00:58:36.719
get them retexed. So that's what I did. I clicked
1107
00:58:36.760 --> 00:58:39.119
that the data had got full consent from the families
1108
00:58:39.159 --> 00:58:42.480
to cleeck the data, and then I thought to safeguard myself.
1109
00:58:42.920 --> 00:58:45.840
Rather than just communicating with the doctor myself, I thought
1110
00:58:45.840 --> 00:58:47.440
the safest thing to do would be to do it
1111
00:58:47.519 --> 00:58:50.639
through a lawyer under legal privilege, which is what I did.
1112
00:58:50.920 --> 00:58:52.599
So I sent the information.
1113
00:58:52.199 --> 00:58:55.519
To You were already obviously stood down, like you weren't
1114
00:58:55.519 --> 00:58:58.239
coming to school, You weren't like officially the principle anymore,
1115
00:58:58.320 --> 00:58:58.800
is that right?
1116
00:58:58.840 --> 00:58:59.199
Correct?
1117
00:58:59.280 --> 00:58:59.519
Yeah?
1118
00:58:59.559 --> 00:59:00.519
Correct?
1119
00:59:00.880 --> 00:59:04.000
And basically obviously the parents that you obviously stayed in
1120
00:59:04.000 --> 00:59:05.960
close contact with their their like you know, they obviously
1121
00:59:06.039 --> 00:59:08.480
had concerns, right, and they wanted to like get a
1122
00:59:08.480 --> 00:59:10.960
second opinion on those tests, like you know kids like
1123
00:59:11.400 --> 00:59:11.880
have COVID.
1124
00:59:12.000 --> 00:59:14.800
Okay, I mean I kind of I think I get
1125
00:59:14.800 --> 00:59:18.159
the impression that that because they knew what had happened,
1126
00:59:18.320 --> 00:59:20.440
like the fact that I stood down and not complied
1127
00:59:20.480 --> 00:59:23.280
with the vaccine mandate, they.
1128
00:59:23.199 --> 00:59:25.480
Knew that more than the government.
1129
00:59:26.039 --> 00:59:28.480
Yeah, they could trust me. They knew that I was
1130
00:59:28.519 --> 00:59:32.079
on the same page and many things, and so they
1131
00:59:32.119 --> 00:59:34.280
and they also knew that I was going to be
1132
00:59:34.320 --> 00:59:36.599
sending this information through a lawyer, that I wasn't going
1133
00:59:36.639 --> 00:59:40.599
to be directly, you know, having conversations with a medical
1134
00:59:40.719 --> 00:59:43.519
person myself, and they agreed to that. They were fine
1135
00:59:43.559 --> 00:59:47.159
with that. So the data got sent to the lawyer.
1136
00:59:47.400 --> 00:59:54.159
The lawyer communicated with this medical officer, and my understanding
1137
00:59:54.280 --> 00:59:58.239
is that initially the conversation was quite you know, they
1138
00:59:58.280 --> 00:59:59.800
seemed to be quite.
1139
01:00:00.039 --> 01:00:02.000
Catherine, just so people understand.
1140
01:00:02.000 --> 01:00:05.320
So what kind of data was passed on Obviously, like
1141
01:00:05.360 --> 01:00:07.159
you know, as you say, with the parents consent, but
1142
01:00:07.239 --> 01:00:09.800
what data was collected and passed on to the lawyer
1143
01:00:10.000 --> 01:00:11.320
would be passed on to like.
1144
01:00:11.320 --> 01:00:12.400
You know, passed on forward.
1145
01:00:13.079 --> 01:00:16.360
So it was pretty much just the the slip of
1146
01:00:16.400 --> 01:00:19.239
paper that they received from their vaccination. So it had
1147
01:00:19.239 --> 01:00:23.079
their name, it had positive or negative. Obviously the ones
1148
01:00:23.079 --> 01:00:25.719
that we were checking were only positive. We didn't seend
1149
01:00:25.719 --> 01:00:27.760
any negative ones along, there's no point in doing that.
1150
01:00:28.880 --> 01:00:32.159
So yeah, positive, the date they tested positive.
1151
01:00:33.039 --> 01:00:35.760
Yeah, not the vaccination, not the vaccine. You just said,
1152
01:00:35.800 --> 01:00:37.719
the slip from the vaccination. But it was only the
1153
01:00:37.760 --> 01:00:38.719
test results.
1154
01:00:38.719 --> 01:00:42.360
Oh yeah, sorry, yeah, the tests so yeah, yeah, sorry, yeah.
1155
01:00:43.000 --> 01:00:44.480
So I'm just trying to think what else it might
1156
01:00:44.519 --> 01:00:46.599
have it might have had the place it was that
1157
01:00:46.599 --> 01:00:48.880
where they were tested. I can't really remember, to be honest,
1158
01:00:48.880 --> 01:00:53.199
but it was basically just COVID test results.
1159
01:00:53.920 --> 01:00:57.239
So they had no information about their like their vaccination status.
1160
01:00:57.760 --> 01:01:01.159
No, no, because they were they were vaccine that they
1161
01:01:01.199 --> 01:01:03.719
weren't rolling out the vaccine at that point, were they
1162
01:01:03.760 --> 01:01:07.039
to the school kids. Generally, this was just about testing
1163
01:01:07.400 --> 01:01:09.599
and that was a PCR test, not the rats test.
1164
01:01:09.760 --> 01:01:12.199
That's right, yeah, because rat tests weren't in New Zealand
1165
01:01:12.239 --> 01:01:15.639
at that time. They were actually just coming in. They
1166
01:01:15.639 --> 01:01:19.360
were just coming in. And an actual fact on that,
1167
01:01:19.719 --> 01:01:22.400
I did actually have two family men, two families who
1168
01:01:23.360 --> 01:01:25.960
managed to get hold of rat tests I think through
1169
01:01:26.000 --> 01:01:31.719
their work actually, and they retested their children themselves with
1170
01:01:31.800 --> 01:01:33.199
a RAT test and as soon as they had a
1171
01:01:33.199 --> 01:01:37.199
negative result, they just released themselves out of quarantine. So
1172
01:01:37.840 --> 01:01:41.079
that kind of was another thing that made me think, well, yeah, actually,
1173
01:01:41.159 --> 01:01:44.840
if we can get negative results for these other families,
1174
01:01:44.840 --> 01:01:47.639
then they'll too be able to release themselves from quarantine.
1175
01:01:48.079 --> 01:01:50.599
So that was kind of the intent behind it. Was
1176
01:01:51.639 --> 01:01:53.679
like I said, I wasn't concerned about by far, the
1177
01:01:53.760 --> 01:01:55.960
majority of my families were fine, they didn't mind, they
1178
01:01:55.960 --> 01:01:58.000
were okay about being locked down. But there were some
1179
01:01:58.480 --> 01:02:02.679
who I had very good reason to try and remove
1180
01:02:02.719 --> 01:02:05.719
them from that quarantine situation. If I if I'm not
1181
01:02:05.760 --> 01:02:06.960
that I can do it, but you know what I mean.
1182
01:02:06.960 --> 01:02:09.360
In fact, they had a negative result, they were able
1183
01:02:09.400 --> 01:02:10.280
to be freed from that.
1184
01:02:10.559 --> 01:02:13.679
Yeah, okay, all right, So you collected that information, you
1185
01:02:13.760 --> 01:02:15.760
passed that on to a lawyer, and what was the intention?
1186
01:02:15.880 --> 01:02:17.800
Like, you know what, what was the next step?
1187
01:02:18.639 --> 01:02:21.960
So from there there was a complaint from the medical
1188
01:02:22.000 --> 01:02:27.639
person that the lawyer was communicating with. And initially I
1189
01:02:27.679 --> 01:02:29.320
wasn't too worried about that. I just said, look at
1190
01:02:29.440 --> 01:02:33.440
just a complaint. But in that complaint there was I
1191
01:02:33.440 --> 01:02:37.039
didn't actually see the complaint and probably for another month afterwards, actually,
1192
01:02:37.119 --> 01:02:40.039
because it was sent to my board. It wasn't sent
1193
01:02:40.119 --> 01:02:44.119
to me, and they didn't initially they didn't send it
1194
01:02:44.119 --> 01:02:46.039
to me for quite some time, but they acted on
1195
01:02:46.079 --> 01:02:50.239
it without me actually knowing. They sent it to the
1196
01:02:50.280 --> 01:02:54.880
teaching council and they also sent it to the The
1197
01:02:54.960 --> 01:02:58.280
reason I know this is because so again I was
1198
01:02:58.320 --> 01:03:01.679
coming I was going backwards and force to school during
1199
01:03:02.360 --> 01:03:05.199
non school hours, and one day I just happened to
1200
01:03:05.199 --> 01:03:06.960
tune up and I thought, oh, this is odd. I
1201
01:03:06.960 --> 01:03:09.400
couldn't get into my school because they'd changed the locks,
1202
01:03:10.599 --> 01:03:13.039
and I just happened to There was an unsuspecting staff
1203
01:03:13.079 --> 01:03:14.760
member at the school at the time who let me in.
1204
01:03:14.840 --> 01:03:16.519
She said, Oh, that's a bit strange that they haven't
1205
01:03:16.519 --> 01:03:18.599
given you a key, because I knew they'd changed the locks,
1206
01:03:18.599 --> 01:03:21.480
but why. I thought they'd give you a key because
1207
01:03:21.480 --> 01:03:24.039
you're still principal, but no, they hadn't. So then when
1208
01:03:24.039 --> 01:03:27.400
I got inside, the alarm code had been changed as well,
1209
01:03:27.440 --> 01:03:29.239
and I thought, this is odd, what's going on here?
1210
01:03:30.239 --> 01:03:33.559
Go to my had to wring someone up, actually to fight,
1211
01:03:33.599 --> 01:03:35.480
because the person who gave me the key had already
1212
01:03:35.519 --> 01:03:39.679
left the premises, and so rang up to find out
1213
01:03:39.679 --> 01:03:42.719
what the alarm code was from another staff member. So
1214
01:03:42.920 --> 01:03:45.119
got that changed, and then I went to my office
1215
01:03:45.119 --> 01:03:47.119
and I couldn't get onto my school server through my
1216
01:03:47.119 --> 01:03:50.159
computer system. I thought, this is really strange, what's going
1217
01:03:50.199 --> 01:03:53.639
on here? So I emailed my board to say, hey,
1218
01:03:53.760 --> 01:03:56.039
I went to school today, I'm still doing some work.
1219
01:03:56.800 --> 01:04:00.800
I couldn't get in, alarm coats changed, and my school
1220
01:04:01.800 --> 01:04:05.719
my computer couldn't get onto server. I never got a response,
1221
01:04:07.280 --> 01:04:12.159
never replied. But what I know now is that they
1222
01:04:12.280 --> 01:04:14.159
I don't know whether they assumed, or whether it was
1223
01:04:14.239 --> 01:04:17.159
part of the investigation process where they were told to
1224
01:04:17.199 --> 01:04:19.840
do a deep dive on the computer system. But they
1225
01:04:19.880 --> 01:04:22.800
were told that that the way I had got the
1226
01:04:22.960 --> 01:04:27.079
data was by hacking into the school server, which is
1227
01:04:27.119 --> 01:04:31.239
completely false. And they did this. They got some people
1228
01:04:31.280 --> 01:04:33.239
in to do a big you know check on the
1229
01:04:33.280 --> 01:04:36.760
computer system and they surprise, surprise, they found nothing, no,
1230
01:04:36.760 --> 01:04:40.079
no data breach. But that didn't stop the investigation. The
1231
01:04:40.119 --> 01:04:41.119
investigation carried on.
1232
01:04:41.639 --> 01:04:45.039
I mean assuming assuming even if you wanted to do that,
1233
01:04:45.639 --> 01:04:50.039
why would the school system record like you know, students.
1234
01:04:49.559 --> 01:04:52.039
Like you know results.
1235
01:04:52.480 --> 01:04:55.920
That makes because they had because they had to send
1236
01:04:55.960 --> 01:04:57.599
that information to the Ministry of Education.
1237
01:04:57.960 --> 01:05:01.480
I see. Okay, yeah, all right, okay, got it.
1238
01:05:02.960 --> 01:05:06.800
Okay, so they assumed, okay, you basically obtained this information
1239
01:05:06.960 --> 01:05:08.880
without like you know, the consent of the parents, and
1240
01:05:09.360 --> 01:05:12.440
you hacked the computer system, so that that's basically.
1241
01:05:12.000 --> 01:05:15.360
What they basically yeah yeah.
1242
01:05:15.199 --> 01:05:18.960
Right, okay, wow, okay, So that's what they told you right.
1243
01:05:19.639 --> 01:05:22.639
Well sometime later, because like I said, at the time,
1244
01:05:22.960 --> 01:05:24.599
I didn't know. For a couple of months, I was
1245
01:05:24.920 --> 01:05:27.079
quite perplexed. I thought, well, why would they do that?
1246
01:05:27.239 --> 01:05:30.320
Because I'm still the principal, I'm still doing work for
1247
01:05:30.360 --> 01:05:34.320
the school. So I was really confused and I tried
1248
01:05:34.360 --> 01:05:36.639
to get answers, but nobody communicated with me.
1249
01:05:38.159 --> 01:05:41.440
Okay, so when when did you realize that something really
1250
01:05:41.480 --> 01:05:42.880
odd was was going on?
1251
01:05:42.960 --> 01:05:44.039
And like in terms of like.
1252
01:05:44.000 --> 01:05:46.679
You know that you you were being accused of, like
1253
01:05:46.679 --> 01:05:49.920
you know some serious like you know, some serious allegations, right,
1254
01:05:49.960 --> 01:05:50.920
I mean, well, once I.
1255
01:05:50.880 --> 01:05:54.079
Heard the teaching council, Basically, once I got communication from
1256
01:05:54.119 --> 01:05:56.960
the teaching council, which was through the lawyer, who said
1257
01:05:56.960 --> 01:06:00.440
that they've they're going to do an investigation on because
1258
01:06:00.480 --> 01:06:04.920
they believed that the complaining doctor's letter, which actually stated
1259
01:06:04.960 --> 01:06:07.800
that I should be struck off for interfering with the
1260
01:06:07.800 --> 01:06:14.039
health response, I.
1261
01:06:14.039 --> 01:06:17.960
Just went against all the employment legislation, didn't it. There
1262
01:06:18.079 --> 01:06:20.559
was just there was no communication with you about what
1263
01:06:20.599 --> 01:06:24.559
was happening. It was from the very beginning they handled
1264
01:06:24.559 --> 01:06:29.320
it ridiculously badly. It was I kind of get.
1265
01:06:29.119 --> 01:06:31.719
The impression that it was like because I never told
1266
01:06:31.800 --> 01:06:35.440
the doctor that I was unvaccinated, but the lawyer did,
1267
01:06:36.000 --> 01:06:40.400
and I kind of get the impression that because once
1268
01:06:40.440 --> 01:06:43.239
they got word of me being unvaccinated, they kind of
1269
01:06:43.280 --> 01:06:46.000
viewed me as some kind of protester or somebody that
1270
01:06:46.079 --> 01:06:49.480
was trying to cause trouble, which was not the case
1271
01:06:49.519 --> 01:06:54.880
at all. I mean I was seriously concerned about my families,
1272
01:06:55.239 --> 01:06:57.159
not all of them, like I said, not all of them,
1273
01:06:57.159 --> 01:06:59.679
but there was a number that were I was concerned about,
1274
01:06:59.679 --> 01:07:01.400
and I was just trying to make sure that they
1275
01:07:01.440 --> 01:07:06.039
were freed from those situations that we're going to potentially
1276
01:07:06.079 --> 01:07:06.559
harm them.
1277
01:07:07.480 --> 01:07:10.039
Now, Okay, So just I guess to clarify for people.
1278
01:07:10.079 --> 01:07:12.719
So you know, when they made those allegations that you were,
1279
01:07:12.719 --> 01:07:14.800
like you know, collecting data because you were an anti
1280
01:07:14.880 --> 01:07:17.079
vaxxer and like you know, you were doing it for whatever,
1281
01:07:17.239 --> 01:07:19.920
like a various reasons, a lot of those parents have
1282
01:07:19.960 --> 01:07:23.480
actually reached out to you in the first place to
1283
01:07:23.599 --> 01:07:27.039
try and get so basically they said, like Catherine, we need.
1284
01:07:26.840 --> 01:07:29.800
Help because, like you know, being in lockdown.
1285
01:07:29.360 --> 01:07:33.079
Because of our kids supposedly being infected with COVID. I
1286
01:07:33.119 --> 01:07:36.880
mean that creates like significant like hardship for us. So
1287
01:07:36.920 --> 01:07:39.199
can you help as like you know, as our trusted
1288
01:07:39.239 --> 01:07:40.000
school principles.
1289
01:07:40.039 --> 01:07:41.199
So they reached out to you.
1290
01:07:41.800 --> 01:07:45.119
That's right, and a lot of them actually made I
1291
01:07:45.199 --> 01:07:47.199
mean a lot of them said to me the reason
1292
01:07:47.239 --> 01:07:51.079
we're asking we're talking to you and not other people
1293
01:07:51.079 --> 01:07:54.280
at the school is because we trust you they've seen that.
1294
01:07:55.960 --> 01:07:59.320
So I mean, how how from that can can an
1295
01:07:59.360 --> 01:08:03.159
accusation that you hacked the computer system of the school
1296
01:08:03.599 --> 01:08:07.559
and obtain information, like you know, unauthorized information and pass
1297
01:08:07.639 --> 01:08:09.880
it on to a lawyer for some like you know,
1298
01:08:09.960 --> 01:08:14.000
political or various reasons because you're in I mean, okay,
1299
01:08:14.039 --> 01:08:17.039
so I guess this is probably a good point. Like
1300
01:08:17.239 --> 01:08:20.159
the reason why I'll keep pushing on that is because
1301
01:08:20.600 --> 01:08:23.520
there was an article right there, was published very recently,
1302
01:08:23.560 --> 01:08:26.920
like this month, I think, after all your proceedings have finished,
1303
01:08:26.960 --> 01:08:29.800
and they were basically allowed to reveal.
1304
01:08:29.479 --> 01:08:30.479
Your name in.
1305
01:08:32.680 --> 01:08:36.560
An outlet in a New Zealand legacy media outlet called Stuff,
1306
01:08:36.600 --> 01:08:38.600
which is quite a significant.
1307
01:08:39.520 --> 01:08:43.319
Outlet I guess in New Zealand. Yeah, let's sink.
1308
01:08:43.199 --> 01:08:46.560
That here, right, And that's that's what they published. So
1309
01:08:46.600 --> 01:08:50.239
that was published August thirteen, twenty twenty six. Now before
1310
01:08:50.239 --> 01:08:52.159
we get into like what they say there, like you know,
1311
01:08:52.239 --> 01:08:56.520
if you heard anything from surprisingly enough, I don't think
1312
01:08:56.560 --> 01:08:59.479
there's even a name for who actually, like you know,
1313
01:08:59.479 --> 01:09:03.159
published this thing, which is pretty common Yeah stuff, right
1314
01:09:03.239 --> 01:09:06.039
for Stuff writer, Right, So there's not even a name
1315
01:09:06.439 --> 01:09:08.960
behind this article, right, I just want people to you know,
1316
01:09:09.359 --> 01:09:13.039
But has anyone from staff like reached out to you
1317
01:09:13.119 --> 01:09:15.600
and said, look, Catherine, we're going to publish this story
1318
01:09:15.640 --> 01:09:19.359
about like you know, your your suspension and I guess
1319
01:09:19.520 --> 01:09:20.760
disciplinary action.
1320
01:09:21.159 --> 01:09:23.359
Right, do you want to provide a comic? Like? Do
1321
01:09:23.479 --> 01:09:25.760
you provide provide your side of the story.
1322
01:09:26.520 --> 01:09:29.960
No, I wasn't. I didn't get a call from anybody
1323
01:09:30.039 --> 01:09:32.560
from the media. That nobody finds me. I had no
1324
01:09:32.640 --> 01:09:36.239
knowledge that they were going to publish it. No journalist
1325
01:09:36.439 --> 01:09:40.680
reached out to me before, during, or after the experience. No, no, nobody.
1326
01:09:41.439 --> 01:09:43.359
Right, Okay, so we're not going to get too much
1327
01:09:43.399 --> 01:09:43.640
to that.
1328
01:09:43.680 --> 01:09:45.279
But I just want to go to like, you know,
1329
01:09:45.399 --> 01:09:48.279
just like you know, obviously the headline and maybe like
1330
01:09:48.319 --> 01:09:49.279
the first paragraph.
1331
01:09:49.680 --> 01:09:51.600
So principal collected.
1332
01:09:51.199 --> 01:09:57.319
Children's COVID details for anti mandate court fight. So the
1333
01:09:57.479 --> 01:10:02.520
principle collected and the purpose was to go to court.
1334
01:10:02.279 --> 01:10:05.960
And fight anti mandate, like fight the mandate legislation.
1335
01:10:06.439 --> 01:10:09.640
So I mean, is there any component at all of
1336
01:10:09.680 --> 01:10:11.800
this headline that is even remotely accurate?
1337
01:10:13.319 --> 01:10:15.279
No, it's complete, live even.
1338
01:10:15.199 --> 01:10:19.720
Even remotely like Okay, right, let's keep rereading because I mean,
1339
01:10:19.760 --> 01:10:20.640
this is just wild.
1340
01:10:20.880 --> 01:10:22.880
Okay. So a former.
1341
01:10:22.600 --> 01:10:26.439
Taranaki Primary school principle has been struck off after collecting
1342
01:10:27.359 --> 01:10:31.920
children's private medical information and passing it to a lawyer
1343
01:10:32.359 --> 01:10:37.239
to support a High Court challenge to COVID nineteen vaccine mandates.
1344
01:10:39.000 --> 01:10:41.760
Is there anything here that is even remotely accurate?
1345
01:10:43.199 --> 01:10:43.319
No?
1346
01:10:43.600 --> 01:10:46.079
Like, is there something here, like even like any war
1347
01:10:46.159 --> 01:10:47.880
that is accurate? I mean other than the fact that
1348
01:10:47.920 --> 01:10:50.680
you are you were a former Taranaki Primary school principle.
1349
01:10:50.720 --> 01:10:53.079
I mean other than that part. Is there anything here
1350
01:10:53.119 --> 01:10:55.039
that is even like remotely accurate?
1351
01:10:56.319 --> 01:11:01.840
No? No, I mean I was I I was involved
1352
01:11:02.000 --> 01:11:07.520
in clickting data for the anti mandate with New Zealand
1353
01:11:07.560 --> 01:11:12.399
teachers speaking out. But that happens sometime after the Yeah,
1354
01:11:12.439 --> 01:11:16.000
that was. That was much longer after the actual event
1355
01:11:16.199 --> 01:11:19.159
around the collection of data to have it rechecked by
1356
01:11:19.159 --> 01:11:19.640
the doctor.
1357
01:11:20.600 --> 01:11:23.479
All right, let's let's look at the second paragraph. And
1358
01:11:23.520 --> 01:11:26.039
I think that's probably where we're gonna stop. But let's
1359
01:11:26.159 --> 01:11:27.239
look at the second prograph.
1360
01:11:27.439 --> 01:11:31.439
So Katherine Peg was principal of Elfham Primary School when
1361
01:11:31.479 --> 01:11:37.439
she obtained students vaccination and Infection status COVIE test results,
1362
01:11:38.039 --> 01:11:41.159
names and dates of birth from families in December twenty
1363
01:11:41.159 --> 01:11:45.159
twenty one. So we obviously know that the COVID test
1364
01:11:45.199 --> 01:11:47.000
results or the PCR test results.
1365
01:11:47.039 --> 01:11:50.159
Yes, we've confirmed that, and you haven't. Really you obtained
1366
01:11:50.399 --> 01:11:52.760
in most cases, as you told me. I mean you've
1367
01:11:52.760 --> 01:11:56.359
obtained that because the parents on the owner cord gave
1368
01:11:56.399 --> 01:11:57.760
you that because they wanted help.
1369
01:11:57.920 --> 01:11:59.039
Right, that's correct.
1370
01:11:59.159 --> 01:12:03.720
Yes, you did you obtain anyone's vaccination status?
1371
01:12:04.720 --> 01:12:07.520
Not vaccination status? No, no, no, Now.
1372
01:12:07.479 --> 01:12:09.720
What information did you pass to the lay Did you
1373
01:12:09.760 --> 01:12:12.199
pass to the lawyer names and day for birth?
1374
01:12:12.840 --> 01:12:17.640
Yes, that was all done under what is called legal privilege.
1375
01:12:18.159 --> 01:12:21.359
So and again I did that with informed consent from
1376
01:12:21.399 --> 01:12:23.680
my parents. They knew I was going to be sending
1377
01:12:23.680 --> 01:12:26.039
it via a lawyer, that I wasn't going to be
1378
01:12:26.439 --> 01:12:29.800
directly corresponding with that medical person myself. They knew that.
1379
01:12:31.199 --> 01:12:36.960
Okay, Now it's worth noting Michael that it wasn't till
1380
01:12:37.079 --> 01:12:41.840
January twenty twenty two when the so called vaccinations were
1381
01:12:41.840 --> 01:12:44.920
begun to be rolled out to that age group, the
1382
01:12:45.000 --> 01:12:49.119
children five to eleven. So I mean that showed the
1383
01:12:49.279 --> 01:12:52.359
article apart from it, you know, being completely full of
1384
01:12:52.359 --> 01:12:58.239
inaccuracies anyway, just shows an underlying, you know, lack of
1385
01:12:58.359 --> 01:13:01.600
understanding of the basic timeline of what happened in New
1386
01:13:01.640 --> 01:13:04.560
Zealand at that time. It was, you know, with the
1387
01:13:04.640 --> 01:13:08.039
vaccines and the testing, et cetera. The Yeah, it's just
1388
01:13:08.199 --> 01:13:10.479
it's to serve a purpose, isn't it. It was, you know,
1389
01:13:10.520 --> 01:13:14.439
it's just Catherine, sadly, you became a gategoat for you know,
1390
01:13:14.520 --> 01:13:17.600
this vitriol that we all faced at that time and
1391
01:13:18.439 --> 01:13:19.680
continues to this day.
1392
01:13:20.560 --> 01:13:23.079
I think. So, I mean, just going back a little bit,
1393
01:13:23.119 --> 01:13:25.680
I mean, I one of the people on my board
1394
01:13:25.680 --> 01:13:28.600
of trustees, I'd actually worked with that person for six years,
1395
01:13:28.600 --> 01:13:32.920
and they absolutely knew how meticulous I was about data
1396
01:13:33.760 --> 01:13:38.920
privacy and never shared anything, you know, anything at all
1397
01:13:39.760 --> 01:13:42.119
unless you had you sort of have that clause where
1398
01:13:42.279 --> 01:13:44.960
which is the same for anybody that's in that works
1399
01:13:44.960 --> 01:13:47.119
in this kind of field, is that you the only
1400
01:13:47.159 --> 01:13:50.840
time you can disclose data outside of the rules of
1401
01:13:50.880 --> 01:13:54.439
consent is when you have concerns about the harm to
1402
01:13:54.560 --> 01:13:58.000
that person or their family or somebody else close to them.
1403
01:13:58.439 --> 01:14:02.920
So I'd never ever done anything in that regard, and
1404
01:14:02.920 --> 01:14:04.920
that's I think that's the part that's really hurtful, is
1405
01:14:04.920 --> 01:14:10.600
because that person clearly because I had the status of unvaccinated.
1406
01:14:11.079 --> 01:14:19.840
It seems to me like overnight we lost respect, trust, reputation. Yeah, yeah, No.
1407
01:14:19.880 --> 01:14:20.520
I mean obviously.
1408
01:14:20.960 --> 01:14:23.359
I mean, first of all, I mean, you know it's
1409
01:14:23.399 --> 01:14:26.520
it's it's obvious. I mean I could tell that it's
1410
01:14:26.520 --> 01:14:29.079
a heat pie straight away because there's no name, right,
1411
01:14:29.079 --> 01:14:31.079
there's nobody and stuff that is actually willing to put
1412
01:14:31.079 --> 01:14:34.039
their name behind it, right, there's not there's no there's
1413
01:14:34.039 --> 01:14:36.960
no journalists, Like there's who wrote it, like you know,
1414
01:14:37.079 --> 01:14:38.640
I mean it could have been written for who they
1415
01:14:38.680 --> 01:14:40.880
are for or we know, but I mean, I mean
1416
01:14:40.920 --> 01:14:44.000
they make hereff Again, I'm just going through this, and
1417
01:14:44.039 --> 01:14:46.760
I think it's important to just show that because it's
1418
01:14:46.800 --> 01:14:49.279
an important case study of how, like you know, legacy
1419
01:14:49.399 --> 01:14:53.680
media can completely fabricate things and get away with that.
1420
01:14:53.800 --> 01:14:56.600
So here's like, you know, let's let me I guess,
1421
01:14:56.680 --> 01:14:59.000
let's share this again and let's keep reading because there's
1422
01:14:59.079 --> 01:15:01.000
another thing that kind of jump to me.
1423
01:15:01.119 --> 01:15:04.720
Now. So here's what they're saying here.
1424
01:15:05.159 --> 01:15:09.640
So some parents that consented to providing information while others
1425
01:15:09.680 --> 01:15:15.399
had not. Right now, if you provided any information.
1426
01:15:15.039 --> 01:15:17.079
To the to the best of your knowledge, if.
1427
01:15:17.000 --> 01:15:21.359
You provided any information to the lawyer of parents, like
1428
01:15:21.399 --> 01:15:23.960
you know, of kids that their parents did not consent
1429
01:15:24.000 --> 01:15:26.159
to that information being provided to the lawyer to the
1430
01:15:26.159 --> 01:15:27.199
best of your knowledge.
1431
01:15:27.720 --> 01:15:30.520
Yeah, so, like I said, possibly what they mean from
1432
01:15:30.600 --> 01:15:35.159
that is the like after the initial collection of the
1433
01:15:35.319 --> 01:15:38.680
COVID testing results, to give those checked by a lawyer,
1434
01:15:39.000 --> 01:15:41.159
I went back to my school community and I asked
1435
01:15:41.199 --> 01:15:44.239
if I could use some of the information for the
1436
01:15:44.800 --> 01:15:48.039
EFFI David in the court case. But that was some
1437
01:15:48.199 --> 01:15:52.840
months later, and there were some who said no, but
1438
01:15:52.960 --> 01:15:57.079
their data was not included in that information.
1439
01:15:57.640 --> 01:15:59.920
So that's important to That's another important point to me
1440
01:16:00.079 --> 01:16:02.359
because I just want because I mean, this whole thing
1441
01:16:02.960 --> 01:16:05.479
it seems like a completely made up story. So the
1442
01:16:05.520 --> 01:16:09.000
next thing that they say, several parents became uncomfortable about
1443
01:16:09.000 --> 01:16:11.640
what was happening, and on the Seber seventeen, twenty twenty one,
1444
01:16:11.880 --> 01:16:15.359
the school's board of trustees directed Peak to immediately stop
1445
01:16:15.439 --> 01:16:21.560
contacting families. Now, despite that instruction, Peak continued messaging parents
1446
01:16:21.960 --> 01:16:24.800
and sent further student health information to the lawyer that
1447
01:16:24.880 --> 01:16:25.439
same day.
1448
01:16:26.760 --> 01:16:27.119
Yeah.
1449
01:16:27.239 --> 01:16:29.039
At that time, Pick was on sick leave and had
1450
01:16:29.079 --> 01:16:31.640
been stood down in late twenty twenty one after declining
1451
01:16:31.640 --> 01:16:36.960
to be vaccinated so that that yeah, yeah, I mean obviously,
1452
01:16:37.000 --> 01:16:39.279
like I mean, there's obvious, like you know, there's obvious
1453
01:16:39.359 --> 01:16:42.000
like you know, I mean this this is no journalism.
1454
01:16:42.039 --> 01:16:44.199
I and this is like you know, provd the style,
1455
01:16:44.359 --> 01:16:48.159
like you know, a propaganda. So I just want because.
1456
01:16:47.920 --> 01:16:51.119
Obviously they haven't given you an opportunity to like respond
1457
01:16:51.119 --> 01:16:53.079
to that for the record, So like, what is.
1458
01:16:53.000 --> 01:16:53.760
Your response to that?
1459
01:16:54.640 --> 01:16:57.000
Well, I mean, interestingly, it hasn't been picked up by
1460
01:16:57.039 --> 01:17:00.399
many other media outlets, which is kind of surprising because
1461
01:17:00.439 --> 01:17:02.840
I was expecting it to kind of go across a
1462
01:17:02.920 --> 01:17:05.560
number of them. But the fact that it hasn't, I think,
1463
01:17:05.880 --> 01:17:08.439
you know what you've alluded to earlier with a non
1464
01:17:08.560 --> 01:17:13.199
named journalist. I think maybe some of them identified it
1465
01:17:13.239 --> 01:17:16.439
as not being quite factual as what the piece was
1466
01:17:16.479 --> 01:17:18.800
trying to say. But I mean, if you go back
1467
01:17:18.800 --> 01:17:21.119
to the actual title, just one thing, I do want
1468
01:17:21.159 --> 01:17:26.039
to say, the actual title of that art, because what
1469
01:17:26.079 --> 01:17:30.239
had actually happened is in the investigation process, the tribunal
1470
01:17:30.279 --> 01:17:36.039
itself had said they were unclear about how I had
1471
01:17:36.159 --> 01:17:41.560
used the data or the information in the you know,
1472
01:17:41.600 --> 01:17:43.479
the stuff that was put into their for David for
1473
01:17:43.560 --> 01:17:47.520
the court case. They admitted they were unclear as to
1474
01:17:47.560 --> 01:17:50.640
how much awareness I had. And the fact is I
1475
01:17:50.720 --> 01:17:53.199
collected data. I was one of many people around New
1476
01:17:53.239 --> 01:17:57.079
Zealand that collected data as part of New Zealand Teachers
1477
01:17:57.079 --> 01:18:01.279
speaking Out, But not one of us had any knowledge
1478
01:18:01.319 --> 01:18:05.439
of how or if the information that we collecked it
1479
01:18:05.600 --> 01:18:09.600
was going to be used in the litigation because we
1480
01:18:09.680 --> 01:18:14.000
were data collectors. We weren't we weren't building the case,
1481
01:18:14.600 --> 01:18:16.960
so we don't know which parts they were going to
1482
01:18:17.039 --> 01:18:18.800
use and which parts they weren't. We had to put
1483
01:18:18.840 --> 01:18:22.119
it into an affidavid because it has to be that
1484
01:18:22.319 --> 01:18:24.079
in order to be used in court, it has to
1485
01:18:24.079 --> 01:18:27.319
be used in that format. So everything had to be
1486
01:18:27.359 --> 01:18:31.479
ready prior to the case so that it was all prepared,
1487
01:18:31.960 --> 01:18:35.640
but we did not know which parts the lawyers would pull,
1488
01:18:35.840 --> 01:18:38.800
you know, pick out, and what they would use and
1489
01:18:38.840 --> 01:18:40.720
how they would use it, or if they would use
1490
01:18:40.760 --> 01:18:43.680
it at all. And I still say I had no
1491
01:18:43.840 --> 01:18:46.920
idea how that was, you know, how the information I
1492
01:18:46.960 --> 01:18:49.119
provided because I actually did about five or four or
1493
01:18:49.119 --> 01:18:52.840
five affidavids and I still don't know which ones we used.
1494
01:18:53.960 --> 01:18:57.399
But the tribunal actually said it was unclear about my
1495
01:18:57.560 --> 01:19:00.840
knowledge of that, and then the media have twisted it
1496
01:19:00.960 --> 01:19:03.479
to say that I had full I had full knowledge
1497
01:19:04.439 --> 01:19:07.680
and that I basically used information that parents didn't consent to,
1498
01:19:07.800 --> 01:19:09.199
and that's completely false.
1499
01:19:09.920 --> 01:19:12.279
M okay, yeah, all right, So that's that's good. That
1500
01:19:12.399 --> 01:19:16.159
kind of clarifies things. And and and again I think,
1501
01:19:16.319 --> 01:19:20.359
uh it reflects very badly on stuff to put it
1502
01:19:20.479 --> 01:19:22.760
very mildly, that there is not even forget about the
1503
01:19:22.760 --> 01:19:25.560
fact that they haven't contacted you for comment on something
1504
01:19:25.600 --> 01:19:27.760
that is clearly like, you know, naming you and making
1505
01:19:27.800 --> 01:19:29.199
some very serious accusations.
1506
01:19:29.199 --> 01:19:32.079
But I mean there's no name, like who wrote this?
1507
01:19:34.039 --> 01:19:37.439
H who is the journalists journalists and stuff that that
1508
01:19:37.439 --> 01:19:38.359
that published this.
1509
01:19:38.479 --> 01:19:41.159
I mean, what is it? Who it may for?
1510
01:19:41.159 --> 01:19:42.760
For all we know, it could have just come from,
1511
01:19:42.800 --> 01:19:44.680
like you know, from the government or from like you know,
1512
01:19:44.720 --> 01:19:47.800
the teachers board and they just published that.
1513
01:19:47.920 --> 01:19:50.760
I mean, that is that is anyway? Okay?
1514
01:19:50.840 --> 01:19:53.880
So so I guess what was the result of that?
1515
01:19:54.000 --> 01:19:57.720
Uh so you had basically, uh you faced like a
1516
01:19:57.720 --> 01:19:59.920
tribunal or can you explain the proces?
1517
01:20:01.399 --> 01:20:03.000
I mean the process went on for about four and
1518
01:20:03.039 --> 01:20:05.880
a half years. It's been really really long and drawn out.
1519
01:20:07.159 --> 01:20:12.279
I mean, at various times I tried to obviously oppose
1520
01:20:12.359 --> 01:20:15.479
parts of the process. I still don't believe that it
1521
01:20:15.520 --> 01:20:17.600
was handled in a fair way. I still believe that
1522
01:20:17.680 --> 01:20:22.680
I was I felt like it was really difficult for
1523
01:20:22.720 --> 01:20:24.520
them to be impartial if it was kept in the
1524
01:20:24.600 --> 01:20:28.039
education sector. So there's quite a number of concerns that
1525
01:20:28.119 --> 01:20:30.840
I have with the whole process. But in the end,
1526
01:20:32.079 --> 01:20:34.359
I had to concede. And when I say I had to,
1527
01:20:34.399 --> 01:20:36.199
I'd run out of money trying to fight this. I've
1528
01:20:36.239 --> 01:20:38.560
spent forty thousand on my own money trying to fight this,
1529
01:20:39.159 --> 01:20:41.479
and I just thought, I'm been going on for four
1530
01:20:41.520 --> 01:20:43.279
and a half years. I wanted an end to it.
1531
01:20:43.319 --> 01:20:45.680
I wanted to know what was going to happen. I
1532
01:20:45.720 --> 01:20:48.600
didn't have any more money left to, you know, for
1533
01:20:48.640 --> 01:20:51.239
the lawyer to continue doing what they were doing. So
1534
01:20:51.279 --> 01:20:53.239
I said, look, what's the quickest way we can get
1535
01:20:53.239 --> 01:20:55.640
this to an end. So we had to come up
1536
01:20:55.680 --> 01:21:01.600
with an agreed summary effects. Interestingly enough, unbeknown to me,
1537
01:21:01.880 --> 01:21:05.279
trust completely trusting. I've never been involved in anything legal before,
1538
01:21:05.640 --> 01:21:08.560
so I had no idea how things worked. But I
1539
01:21:08.640 --> 01:21:11.000
ended up having to concede. I had the choice of
1540
01:21:11.079 --> 01:21:14.239
either conceding to misconduct or serious misconduct. So of course
1541
01:21:14.279 --> 01:21:18.159
I went with misconduct, still believing I haven't done anything wrong,
1542
01:21:19.920 --> 01:21:21.760
and I also ended up so even that, So that
1543
01:21:21.800 --> 01:21:24.479
went back and even that wasn't enough. They didn't satisfy them.
1544
01:21:24.680 --> 01:21:27.399
They then said, okay, you have to say something about
1545
01:21:27.479 --> 01:21:29.800
the consent with the with the parents. So I ended
1546
01:21:29.840 --> 01:21:33.119
up saying some parents did not consent, because that is true,
1547
01:21:33.199 --> 01:21:35.880
they didn't, but their data was not used. But I
1548
01:21:35.920 --> 01:21:38.079
just left it at that one sentence, some parents did
1549
01:21:38.119 --> 01:21:41.800
not consent, and of course that's been trusted, that's been
1550
01:21:41.840 --> 01:21:46.279
twisted and manipulated into yes, that's true, some parents didn't consent,
1551
01:21:46.439 --> 01:21:48.720
but you use their data anyway, which is not true.
1552
01:21:48.720 --> 01:21:55.399
I did not do that, right, There's there's definitely an
1553
01:21:55.439 --> 01:22:00.439
element here that Catherine's you know, just touched on about
1554
01:22:00.600 --> 01:22:04.319
legal advice. You know, they do have insurance, these lawyers,
1555
01:22:04.319 --> 01:22:07.479
and if they do make mistakes, and everybody makes mistakes,
1556
01:22:08.680 --> 01:22:12.000
you know, they do have an insurance policy that covers them,
1557
01:22:12.039 --> 01:22:16.680
indemnifies them against this kind of outcome. But for some reason,
1558
01:22:17.479 --> 01:22:20.159
you know, lawyers in New Zealand in particular, I've had
1559
01:22:20.159 --> 01:22:24.119
a you know, not very good experiences with to be honest,
1560
01:22:25.800 --> 01:22:28.760
that there's an element of responsibility that has to be
1561
01:22:29.439 --> 01:22:32.239
laid at their door, you know, for the advice that
1562
01:22:32.600 --> 01:22:35.840
they did or didn't provide at the right time. And
1563
01:22:36.720 --> 01:22:42.239
you know, it's it's a very unsatisfactory outcome as a
1564
01:22:42.279 --> 01:22:43.800
result of that.
1565
01:22:45.039 --> 01:22:48.920
Yeah, I mean, interestingly enough, what I know that happens
1566
01:22:48.960 --> 01:22:52.640
and disciplinary processes is that the person concern usually gets
1567
01:22:52.640 --> 01:22:55.039
stood down. I was never stood down the whole four
1568
01:22:55.079 --> 01:22:57.880
and a half years. I was working every day. I'm
1569
01:22:57.880 --> 01:23:01.479
not a risk to the public. So the proportionality of
1570
01:23:01.520 --> 01:23:05.760
my outcome is actually insane because to my knowledge, the
1571
01:23:05.760 --> 01:23:08.039
only people that have ever been struck off the Teaching
1572
01:23:08.039 --> 01:23:11.079
Council of New Zealand are people that have committed serious
1573
01:23:11.119 --> 01:23:16.960
crimes against children. So yeah, the proportionality is there is none.
1574
01:23:17.000 --> 01:23:19.560
It's just crazy. Yeah.
1575
01:23:20.319 --> 01:23:22.479
So the practical and you're just trying to understand. So
1576
01:23:22.520 --> 01:23:25.159
for people to understand what are the practical implications of
1577
01:23:25.199 --> 01:23:28.159
being struck off by the teacher's board. That means the
1578
01:23:28.279 --> 01:23:30.880
kind of your license to teach is revolved and you
1579
01:23:30.920 --> 01:23:32.640
cannot like teach in New Zealand.
1580
01:23:32.680 --> 01:23:33.399
Is that how it works?
1581
01:23:33.720 --> 01:23:36.479
Yeah, I cannot teach again in New Zealand schools. Ever,
1582
01:23:37.079 --> 01:23:40.079
because sometimes they will say right, you've got a two
1583
01:23:40.159 --> 01:23:43.159
year standown period. You're suspended for two years. But for me,
1584
01:23:43.399 --> 01:23:47.520
it's that this is the end. There is no opportunity
1585
01:23:47.520 --> 01:23:52.520
for me to teach in a school again in New Zealand.
1586
01:23:51.640 --> 01:23:55.319
And for what wow, I mean after yeah, thirty.
1587
01:23:55.159 --> 01:24:00.760
Years of it's a doctful waste of Catherine's expertise and expertsperience. It's,
1588
01:24:00.920 --> 01:24:03.960
you know, in an environment where the education system here
1589
01:24:04.039 --> 01:24:08.399
is crying out for exactly that kind of expertise and qualifications.
1590
01:24:08.760 --> 01:24:11.920
You know, there's just no there's no rhyme or reason
1591
01:24:12.039 --> 01:24:16.239
to their actions. It's just totally, as you say, out
1592
01:24:16.239 --> 01:24:21.079
of proportion, and you know stinks of being, you know,
1593
01:24:22.960 --> 01:24:24.439
having an ulterior motive.
1594
01:24:25.159 --> 01:24:27.760
It's also really hypocritical because they you know, they they
1595
01:24:27.800 --> 01:24:29.800
are quite happy to approach about how much we have
1596
01:24:29.880 --> 01:24:34.159
to look after vulnerable families and vulnerable children, which is
1597
01:24:34.199 --> 01:24:36.800
exactly what I did. And yet this is what you
1598
01:24:36.840 --> 01:24:37.520
get when you do that.
1599
01:24:37.760 --> 01:24:44.840
So okay, So, so I guess for people to understand,
1600
01:24:44.840 --> 01:24:48.680
because I mean, you you quite you know that's great now,
1601
01:24:48.720 --> 01:24:52.920
So I mean that situation so uh so the outcome
1602
01:24:53.079 --> 01:24:55.439
of you were kind of agreeing to I guess like
1603
01:24:55.479 --> 01:24:57.840
you know, it's using an American term to a plea bargain,
1604
01:24:57.960 --> 01:25:00.199
right in being struck of?
1605
01:25:01.279 --> 01:25:04.520
Is that basically what you have to pay a fine and.
1606
01:25:04.479 --> 01:25:09.560
Your own legal costs and their legal cost Is that right?
1607
01:25:10.119 --> 01:25:13.880
Yes, that's correct. Yes, So I've been fined forty six
1608
01:25:13.960 --> 01:25:18.520
thousand dollars and that's that's on top of the money
1609
01:25:18.560 --> 01:25:22.560
that I've already spent trying to represent myself legally. So yeah,
1610
01:25:22.640 --> 01:25:25.520
I've got forty and and I've got no job currently.
1611
01:25:25.680 --> 01:25:28.119
So yeah, I was going to say the lost the
1612
01:25:28.159 --> 01:25:31.800
loss of income and you know, the loss of that role,
1613
01:25:32.119 --> 01:25:35.720
and yeah, it's it's a shocking.
1614
01:25:36.520 --> 01:25:39.119
I don't understand how they expect you to pay when
1615
01:25:39.159 --> 01:25:41.319
you've got no job and you've got no means to
1616
01:25:41.399 --> 01:25:43.760
an income because I've lost my license now.
1617
01:25:44.800 --> 01:25:48.920
Okay, so so to help me understand, So, so when
1618
01:25:48.960 --> 01:25:51.640
you're normally ever hearing with the with the teacher's board,
1619
01:25:51.680 --> 01:25:53.960
right how it's called the teaching board, yep.
1620
01:25:54.359 --> 01:25:56.479
The teaching council, teaching council.
1621
01:25:56.560 --> 01:26:00.279
Okay, thank you. So how how does the process work?
1622
01:26:00.359 --> 01:26:02.119
So, like you know, obviously, like you know, even if
1623
01:26:02.159 --> 01:26:03.600
you go to a court of law, like I mean,
1624
01:26:03.600 --> 01:26:05.560
the basic thing like you know, if you can't afford
1625
01:26:05.600 --> 01:26:08.880
your own legal representation, right one is a pointed to you,
1626
01:26:09.079 --> 01:26:12.239
like there's like the public like you know whatever, Uh, well,
1627
01:26:13.680 --> 01:26:15.840
you're not entitled to that, Like I mean, how does
1628
01:26:15.960 --> 01:26:17.479
like why did you have to pay for your own
1629
01:26:17.560 --> 01:26:18.800
legal court in the first lice?
1630
01:26:19.600 --> 01:26:25.800
I mean, interestingly, my experience parallels with every other person
1631
01:26:26.000 --> 01:26:28.199
who whether they are in the health sector or the
1632
01:26:28.319 --> 01:26:33.720
education sect, anybody that's been penalized for doing COVID crimes
1633
01:26:34.880 --> 01:26:36.960
has had a similar experience. So initially it goes to
1634
01:26:37.239 --> 01:26:41.000
what they call a Complaints Assessment Committee our once called that,
1635
01:26:41.199 --> 01:26:45.399
and so CAC is their acronym, which is quite appropriate
1636
01:26:45.399 --> 01:26:49.319
in my opinion. But so that the initial so they
1637
01:26:49.520 --> 01:26:51.840
so they do they decide whether or not it's going
1638
01:26:51.880 --> 01:26:53.840
to be triarched out, which it should have been in
1639
01:26:53.840 --> 01:26:57.960
my case, or whether it should actually go further. And
1640
01:26:58.000 --> 01:27:00.800
so if of course they suggested had to go further
1641
01:27:00.840 --> 01:27:03.159
in my particular situation, So that means it goes to
1642
01:27:03.199 --> 01:27:07.319
the tribunal, and the tribunal holds a three day long
1643
01:27:07.880 --> 01:27:11.159
hearing where which didn't happen in my case, but only
1644
01:27:11.239 --> 01:27:13.560
because I had to change lawyers at the last you know,
1645
01:27:13.600 --> 01:27:15.800
when it got to that stage. But generally they have
1646
01:27:15.840 --> 01:27:19.119
a three day hearing. They submit all of their evidence
1647
01:27:19.199 --> 01:27:22.720
and they, you know, three days of completely telling you
1648
01:27:22.800 --> 01:27:26.640
everything you've done wrong, and then they decide what the
1649
01:27:26.720 --> 01:27:29.520
outcome is going to be. So all of the people
1650
01:27:29.520 --> 01:27:31.720
that have gone through this experience have had the same
1651
01:27:32.199 --> 01:27:35.319
that's the same process. The process is aligned no matter
1652
01:27:35.319 --> 01:27:36.119
what sector you're in.
1653
01:27:37.479 --> 01:27:40.079
Okay, all right, So here's here's what I want to understand.
1654
01:27:40.159 --> 01:27:44.560
Obviously, the teachers, the teaching board have made their decision,
1655
01:27:44.680 --> 01:27:47.479
handed out the decision, and the matter is finished as
1656
01:27:47.479 --> 01:27:52.239
far as they're concerned. Who can ittervene in decisions made
1657
01:27:52.279 --> 01:27:55.119
by the teaching board, who sits above them and can
1658
01:27:55.159 --> 01:27:58.279
potentially not maybe not even outright over rule, but say no,
1659
01:27:58.479 --> 01:28:00.439
you have to revisit this case, this case that's to
1660
01:28:00.520 --> 01:28:01.159
be reopened.
1661
01:28:01.840 --> 01:28:05.680
So I did have the opportunity to appeal through the
1662
01:28:05.760 --> 01:28:10.079
district court. Right. The reason I didn't, apart from the
1663
01:28:10.079 --> 01:28:11.720
fact that it's gone on for four and a half
1664
01:28:11.800 --> 01:28:15.119
years and I'd run out of money. I just felt
1665
01:28:15.159 --> 01:28:19.520
like nobody is winning cases in the COVID space, and
1666
01:28:19.600 --> 01:28:21.159
I just felt that it would have been a waste
1667
01:28:21.199 --> 01:28:25.359
of resources and time to even try to appeal because
1668
01:28:26.520 --> 01:28:28.399
you know, I don't know how many hundreds of cases
1669
01:28:28.439 --> 01:28:31.079
in New Zealand that have gone before the court and
1670
01:28:31.880 --> 01:28:36.600
for multiple reasons across the COVID era, and nobody has won,
1671
01:28:36.720 --> 01:28:37.119
not one.
1672
01:28:38.079 --> 01:28:41.800
Okay, what power does the Minister of Education in New
1673
01:28:41.880 --> 01:28:44.239
Zealand have over the teaching board?
1674
01:28:46.600 --> 01:28:49.199
I'm not sure, to be honest, I'm actually not sure.
1675
01:28:50.680 --> 01:28:52.239
I don't think they know themselves.
1676
01:28:54.000 --> 01:28:56.520
But I mean, ultimately, I mean, okay, look, I mean,
1677
01:28:56.960 --> 01:28:59.600
you know, in a normal democracy, r I, there's luck
1678
01:28:59.760 --> 01:29:02.720
free of powers right between like you know, government and
1679
01:29:03.039 --> 01:29:06.319
judicial and like you know, legislative. But this is this
1680
01:29:06.439 --> 01:29:09.800
is not like the Teaching Council is not any of that,
1681
01:29:10.319 --> 01:29:13.199
right there, professional body, Right, It's like you know, like
1682
01:29:13.279 --> 01:29:15.520
we have in Australia, we have opera for the medical
1683
01:29:15.520 --> 01:29:16.520
stuff and stuff like that.
1684
01:29:16.640 --> 01:29:18.600
So it's, if anything, it is.
1685
01:29:18.560 --> 01:29:22.119
A government authority at most, right, So you know, they're
1686
01:29:22.159 --> 01:29:25.800
not like a separate body, which means that the minister
1687
01:29:25.960 --> 01:29:28.239
there has to be a minister in charge that can
1688
01:29:28.279 --> 01:29:32.039
tell them, Okay, you've done the wrong thing here. I'm
1689
01:29:32.159 --> 01:29:37.880
using my ministerial powers to direct you to reassess this, Kate.
1690
01:29:38.159 --> 01:29:40.800
But I don't care what you say, you have to
1691
01:29:40.840 --> 01:29:44.800
do it. I'm the minister, right, so I don't know.
1692
01:29:44.960 --> 01:29:47.319
I'm not familiar with the New Zealand system, but I
1693
01:29:47.319 --> 01:29:50.880
mean that would I would imagine that that that that is,
1694
01:29:51.199 --> 01:29:53.600
there is a possibility given the fact this is not
1695
01:29:53.640 --> 01:29:55.399
a court of law. Now, obviously, if you went to
1696
01:29:55.439 --> 01:29:58.199
the District Court and the District Court has ruled that,
1697
01:29:58.319 --> 01:30:01.640
like you know, the decision by the Teaching Board is invalid,
1698
01:30:02.039 --> 01:30:03.479
then you know, I mean, you can go to the
1699
01:30:03.479 --> 01:30:04.119
Supreme Court.
1700
01:30:04.119 --> 01:30:06.760
But there's not much that the government can do, right.
1701
01:30:06.920 --> 01:30:09.359
And the reason I guess why I say that, like
1702
01:30:09.399 --> 01:30:11.279
you know, especially for like you know, the people who
1703
01:30:11.279 --> 01:30:16.119
are watching this from New Zealand. You have elections coming soon, right,
1704
01:30:16.479 --> 01:30:21.439
and currently currently you have a government that is not
1705
01:30:21.560 --> 01:30:24.199
the same government that like you know justin Dadian and
1706
01:30:24.479 --> 01:30:28.199
Eight Kings, right, it's supposedly the opposition party right or
1707
01:30:28.680 --> 01:30:31.199
the party that is in opposition to you to the
1708
01:30:31.279 --> 01:30:32.319
Labor Party right.
1709
01:30:32.640 --> 01:30:34.079
And you have a deputy Prime.
1710
01:30:33.880 --> 01:30:37.279
Minister who's still position in New Zealand first as a
1711
01:30:37.279 --> 01:30:38.439
Freedom party, right.
1712
01:30:38.600 --> 01:30:40.279
And he said, oh, there was a lot of like
1713
01:30:40.319 --> 01:30:42.439
you know, uh, bad deeds done.
1714
01:30:42.520 --> 01:30:44.520
You're like you know, the COVID time by the previous
1715
01:30:44.520 --> 01:30:46.079
regip We're gonna fix it.
1716
01:30:46.399 --> 01:30:47.359
I'm not even gonna say.
1717
01:30:47.720 --> 01:30:49.680
I'm not even gonna mention the fact that we distarted
1718
01:30:49.680 --> 01:30:52.920
in a previous interview that obviously the Royal Commission, like
1719
01:30:53.000 --> 01:30:56.199
the COVID nineteen Royal Commission, happened under the current government
1720
01:30:56.239 --> 01:30:58.399
and it wasn't Outher Farce. I'm not gonna get into that.
1721
01:30:58.800 --> 01:31:01.239
I direct people to the the previous interview we did.
1722
01:31:01.960 --> 01:31:04.960
So you have elections coming, like I think quite in
1723
01:31:04.960 --> 01:31:06.399
a couple of months in November, is that.
1724
01:31:06.439 --> 01:31:07.680
Right, November seventh?
1725
01:31:07.760 --> 01:31:10.159
I thank yeah, right, And you have a Deputy Prime
1726
01:31:10.199 --> 01:31:13.560
Minister of Positions this party as like you know, okay,
1727
01:31:13.640 --> 01:31:15.560
we are like you know, now there were a lot
1728
01:31:15.600 --> 01:31:18.319
of bad things that happened during COVID. We are determined
1729
01:31:18.359 --> 01:31:20.359
to fix that, like you know, just you know, vote
1730
01:31:20.359 --> 01:31:21.760
far for another three years.
1731
01:31:22.720 --> 01:31:22.920
Right.
1732
01:31:23.159 --> 01:31:26.159
Obviously the Minister of Education, I'm assuming it's not from
1733
01:31:26.159 --> 01:31:30.960
that party, is from the the Conservative Party or whatever
1734
01:31:31.319 --> 01:31:32.640
whatever it's called in New Zealand.
1735
01:31:33.319 --> 01:31:36.119
But I think I think it's important for people in
1736
01:31:36.119 --> 01:31:36.800
New Zealand to.
1737
01:31:36.800 --> 01:31:41.159
Understand, right, and it doesn't matter what you've used about
1738
01:31:41.239 --> 01:31:44.680
vaccination or not vaccination or COVID or not COVID.
1739
01:31:44.920 --> 01:31:45.520
Why there's the.
1740
01:31:45.520 --> 01:31:50.560
Case here or like an exemplary professional in in in
1741
01:31:50.720 --> 01:31:53.439
a in a field that is like dying for like
1742
01:31:53.600 --> 01:31:56.680
highly qualified people and it doesn't get more highly qualified
1743
01:31:56.680 --> 01:31:59.840
than like you know, thirty years experience, right, and some
1744
01:32:00.239 --> 01:32:03.520
was actually hasn't done anything wrong, right, And now it's
1745
01:32:03.560 --> 01:32:06.760
basically the same like you know, category is like you know,
1746
01:32:07.520 --> 01:32:08.279
kiddy fiddlers.
1747
01:32:08.319 --> 01:32:09.680
I mean this, this is ridiculous.
1748
01:32:10.239 --> 01:32:12.680
Yeah, that's right, Okay, So so.
1749
01:32:12.680 --> 01:32:15.920
I want that message right to come across, like you know,
1750
01:32:16.000 --> 01:32:18.000
beyond just like the discussion what we we can do
1751
01:32:18.039 --> 01:32:21.079
to help you in the immediate term. But this is
1752
01:32:21.079 --> 01:32:24.960
a very good opportunity because the timing of this right
1753
01:32:25.279 --> 01:32:27.600
is very good because of the situation that you have
1754
01:32:27.720 --> 01:32:30.840
now in New Zealand with upcoming elections and like, you know,
1755
01:32:30.920 --> 01:32:33.720
the guy who was like supposedly the Freedom candidate is
1756
01:32:33.760 --> 01:32:36.079
the deputy Prime Minister. So he can say he opposes
1757
01:32:36.119 --> 01:32:39.359
all the like you know, COVID measures and COVID policies.
1758
01:32:39.399 --> 01:32:41.520
But it's not just like you know, just like uh
1759
01:32:41.680 --> 01:32:44.560
Robert F. Kennedy Junior in the US, he's not an
1760
01:32:44.640 --> 01:32:49.600
activist he's he's the government and he's a deputy Prime Minister, right,
1761
01:32:49.640 --> 01:32:52.960
so there's things that he can do and and and
1762
01:32:53.279 --> 01:32:55.880
people in New Zealand need to demand that he does them.
1763
01:32:56.039 --> 01:32:58.399
That that's that That would be my that would be
1764
01:32:58.439 --> 01:32:58.840
my take.
1765
01:32:59.560 --> 01:33:04.560
Yeah, you know, yeah, you know, it's interesting that the
1766
01:33:04.560 --> 01:33:08.880
current Minister of Education, Erica Stanford, she was the lead
1767
01:33:09.760 --> 01:33:14.199
of the the inquiry into state you know, abuses in
1768
01:33:14.279 --> 01:33:16.720
state care. I don't know if you're familiar with that, Michael,
1769
01:33:16.760 --> 01:33:22.720
but there was a report about the people that were
1770
01:33:22.760 --> 01:33:27.079
in state care who were subject to all kinds of
1771
01:33:27.159 --> 01:33:31.560
abuse historically and it was quite damning. The outcomes from
1772
01:33:31.720 --> 01:33:37.119
you know, that report, that investigation. Is that Pedro he's
1773
01:33:37.159 --> 01:33:43.199
getting a bit Yeah, but yeah, I think the other
1774
01:33:43.239 --> 01:33:46.159
thing I was going to mention was the NDAs. You know,
1775
01:33:46.239 --> 01:33:49.960
I mean, one thing that really sets Catherine's position apart
1776
01:33:50.039 --> 01:33:52.680
from the others is I mean, I know you just
1777
01:33:52.760 --> 01:33:56.319
mentioned Catherine, that case law is you know, pretty sparse
1778
01:33:56.359 --> 01:34:00.640
on this, but there have been people who have one
1779
01:34:00.960 --> 01:34:05.600
a case because they were dismissed in appalling circumstances not
1780
01:34:06.600 --> 01:34:10.479
in line with employment law apart from anything else, but
1781
01:34:10.640 --> 01:34:14.560
they've been given payouts in exchange for signing a non
1782
01:34:14.600 --> 01:34:17.920
disclosure agreement, and so that's why they can't appear on
1783
01:34:17.960 --> 01:34:22.800
podcasts like this and talk freely about their experiences. And
1784
01:34:22.840 --> 01:34:24.840
we don't know how many of those people there are
1785
01:34:24.960 --> 01:34:29.960
out there, but yeah, you know, that's another concern, and
1786
01:34:29.960 --> 01:34:33.560
obviously it prevents we were talking earlier about the social media,
1787
01:34:33.800 --> 01:34:37.640
the online safety laws, et cetera that are coming in
1788
01:34:38.000 --> 01:34:41.960
just you know, screwing down harder on the censorship online,
1789
01:34:43.079 --> 01:34:44.760
and that's into this.
1790
01:34:45.560 --> 01:34:48.000
Yeah, yeah, it's interesting that you raised it actually isn't
1791
01:34:48.000 --> 01:34:50.600
there because I know, I've got two friends who have
1792
01:34:50.680 --> 01:34:54.960
recently applied for new positions and schools and both of
1793
01:34:55.000 --> 01:34:58.119
them had to sign a disclaimer to say that they
1794
01:34:58.159 --> 01:35:05.720
won't put anything anything political on their private social media.
1795
01:35:06.479 --> 01:35:11.960
So what you know, I mean, what's political.
1796
01:35:13.640 --> 01:35:19.760
Political about like, you know, a vaccine in novel technology
1797
01:35:19.800 --> 01:35:22.039
that's never been tested before and as it do be
1798
01:35:22.039 --> 01:35:23.960
a safety record, how is that political?
1799
01:35:26.000 --> 01:35:26.600
Exactly?
1800
01:35:27.680 --> 01:35:31.000
Need they need to these people need to sit down
1801
01:35:31.000 --> 01:35:33.039
when they're faced with signing something like that. I know
1802
01:35:33.079 --> 01:35:35.720
it's difficult when you're you know, you're accepting a new
1803
01:35:35.800 --> 01:35:38.680
job that you probably you know, are desperate for. But
1804
01:35:38.800 --> 01:35:41.000
these kinds of people are the ones that need to
1805
01:35:41.000 --> 01:35:43.520
stand up and say, okay, you need to define that
1806
01:35:43.600 --> 01:35:46.159
before I sign it. What do you actually mean? You know,
1807
01:35:46.279 --> 01:35:49.520
stand up for what's right, have some you know, courage
1808
01:35:50.000 --> 01:35:51.479
in this and make.
1809
01:35:51.399 --> 01:35:56.000
Sure people that have crossed those sort of words outrements,
1810
01:35:56.439 --> 01:35:58.840
cross things out and then signed.
1811
01:35:59.159 --> 01:36:01.760
Yeah, great, we need more. We need more of that,
1812
01:36:01.800 --> 01:36:02.199
don't we.
1813
01:36:02.439 --> 01:36:04.239
We really do, definitely.
1814
01:36:04.920 --> 01:36:06.920
And I mean look, I mean, I mean my platform
1815
01:36:07.000 --> 01:36:08.880
is called the Actionable Truth, so I always try, like
1816
01:36:08.920 --> 01:36:09.439
you know, to end.
1817
01:36:09.479 --> 01:36:10.760
Okay, well what do we do?
1818
01:36:11.000 --> 01:36:11.159
Right?
1819
01:36:11.239 --> 01:36:12.960
So, I mean the situation it is pretty bleak.
1820
01:36:13.880 --> 01:36:16.760
Okay, so obviously you Catherine, I mean you face like
1821
01:36:16.760 --> 01:36:19.159
you know significant like you know, financial obligations now that
1822
01:36:19.199 --> 01:36:20.600
like you know, you have to pay fines and you
1823
01:36:20.600 --> 01:36:23.720
have to pay court fees and stuff like that. So
1824
01:36:23.800 --> 01:36:25.840
I mean, I I I understand that you started a
1825
01:36:25.840 --> 01:36:28.079
crowd finding campaign, and I mean, if you want to tell.
1826
01:36:27.920 --> 01:36:29.359
People a little bit more about that.
1827
01:36:30.399 --> 01:36:34.239
Yes, well, it's just it is. It is a give
1828
01:36:34.640 --> 01:36:38.800
send go page where I just would appreciate anybody donating
1829
01:36:39.039 --> 01:36:41.680
to help me pay these fines. I'd really really be grateful.
1830
01:36:42.960 --> 01:36:46.520
I mean, it's it's it's begrudges all of us to
1831
01:36:46.600 --> 01:36:48.600
be in this situation, but I really just want to
1832
01:36:48.600 --> 01:36:50.960
be able to move on with my life and put
1833
01:36:51.000 --> 01:36:54.279
it all behind me. So anybody that could support me
1834
01:36:54.439 --> 01:36:56.399
with that would be greatly appreciated. Yeah.
1835
01:36:57.079 --> 01:36:58.960
Yeah, And I mean obviously that's something that you try
1836
01:36:58.960 --> 01:37:00.760
and I mean you're trying to help you self, right,
1837
01:37:01.119 --> 01:37:03.920
But I mean I would I would argue, I would
1838
01:37:04.000 --> 01:37:09.199
argue that the government right of the day, of the
1839
01:37:09.279 --> 01:37:12.199
current government, which is not the same government of Jacinda Arden, right,
1840
01:37:12.239 --> 01:37:14.800
because they're not going to criticize themselves, right, so that
1841
01:37:14.800 --> 01:37:18.560
that's unlikely, like, you know, not not realistic to expect
1842
01:37:18.560 --> 01:37:20.800
them to do that. But now it's a different government,
1843
01:37:21.159 --> 01:37:24.600
right the opposition supposedly right, and a deputy Prime Minister
1844
01:37:24.720 --> 01:37:26.800
is from a Freedom Party, supposedly right.
1845
01:37:28.079 --> 01:37:31.439
They can add this nonsense tomorrow if they want it. Yeah,
1846
01:37:32.359 --> 01:37:33.640
I'm not familiar.
1847
01:37:33.239 --> 01:37:35.560
With like the constitutional law in New Zealand and all
1848
01:37:35.600 --> 01:37:38.359
that sort of stuff, but given we are not talking
1849
01:37:38.399 --> 01:37:41.039
about the court of law here but some pribunal of
1850
01:37:41.079 --> 01:37:42.319
a professional.
1851
01:37:41.840 --> 01:37:45.680
Like you know body, they can add this nonsense tomorrow.
1852
01:37:46.079 --> 01:37:48.840
Yeah, that's right. I mean I actually have written to them.
1853
01:37:48.880 --> 01:37:52.760
I've written a leader to all of the mid Ministers
1854
01:37:52.760 --> 01:37:57.439
of Education and what's completers. So yeah, to try and
1855
01:37:57.840 --> 01:38:00.399
you to look onto my case because I think is
1856
01:38:00.680 --> 01:38:04.079
very unfear what's happened. But that was a couple of
1857
01:38:04.119 --> 01:38:06.199
weeks ago. I sent their email and lead her out
1858
01:38:06.239 --> 01:38:08.000
to them, but I haven't heard a thing from anybody.
1859
01:38:09.920 --> 01:38:12.640
So you've contacted the Ministry of Education and also our
1860
01:38:12.640 --> 01:38:14.720
wins Computers, which is the deputy Prime Minister and the
1861
01:38:14.760 --> 01:38:16.159
leader of the New Zealand First like.
1862
01:38:16.159 --> 01:38:18.640
You know that that's supposedly the Freedom Party.
1863
01:38:18.840 --> 01:38:22.159
Okay, So I mean look, I mean other than obviously,
1864
01:38:22.199 --> 01:38:24.840
like you know, helping your crowd funding campaign, and that's
1865
01:38:24.840 --> 01:38:26.680
something that anyone in the world can do, not just
1866
01:38:26.960 --> 01:38:29.279
people in New Zealand, but like you know, people in
1867
01:38:29.279 --> 01:38:31.319
New Zealand who are going to the polls in a
1868
01:38:31.319 --> 01:38:32.239
couple of months.
1869
01:38:32.600 --> 01:38:34.920
Yeah right, I mean we are, like you know, this
1870
01:38:35.119 --> 01:38:38.399
is twenty twenty six, Yeah, this is still going on.
1871
01:38:39.199 --> 01:38:42.520
Yeah right, Yeah, a government and a deputy prime minister
1872
01:38:42.640 --> 01:38:45.199
supposedly like you know, regret what happened during COVID and
1873
01:38:45.399 --> 01:38:46.399
promises to do better.
1874
01:38:46.520 --> 01:38:50.199
Just vote for me again, yeah, agreed, agreed, Because there
1875
01:38:50.239 --> 01:38:53.159
is a bit of noise coming from Winston Peters about
1876
01:38:53.199 --> 01:38:56.800
these sorts of things. But in my opinion, he's had
1877
01:38:56.840 --> 01:38:58.640
three years to do it and he's done nothing. So
1878
01:38:59.319 --> 01:39:01.920
it would be great to see some action rather than
1879
01:39:02.000 --> 01:39:02.720
just words.
1880
01:39:03.359 --> 01:39:07.319
Well if someone either here or like at least someone
1881
01:39:07.359 --> 01:39:10.199
from his office or from the Ministry of Education actually
1882
01:39:10.199 --> 01:39:12.439
even responds to your letter, right, I mean, given you
1883
01:39:12.600 --> 01:39:14.680
like you know, we've given thirty years of service to that,
1884
01:39:14.760 --> 01:39:20.960
to that like you know, department essentially, So again I
1885
01:39:20.960 --> 01:39:23.520
would I would urge everyone in New Zealand, right, And
1886
01:39:23.600 --> 01:39:25.359
it doesn't matter what the views are about, like you
1887
01:39:25.359 --> 01:39:29.439
a vaccination COVID like you know, dangerous, not dangerous, any
1888
01:39:29.479 --> 01:39:30.279
of that sort of stuff.
1889
01:39:30.279 --> 01:39:30.960
It doesn't matter.
1890
01:39:31.199 --> 01:39:34.000
I mean obviously that there's like there is an obvious
1891
01:39:34.159 --> 01:39:35.279
like injustice here.
1892
01:39:35.319 --> 01:39:36.960
I mean it is glaring.
1893
01:39:37.159 --> 01:39:39.600
I mean, how can someone like you know, with with
1894
01:39:39.720 --> 01:39:44.079
an exemplary professional record be basically in the same category
1895
01:39:44.119 --> 01:39:46.119
as like you know, someone like you know doing kids
1896
01:39:46.399 --> 01:39:47.760
doing things to kids.
1897
01:39:47.840 --> 01:39:49.039
I mean that is insanity.
1898
01:39:49.760 --> 01:39:54.119
Yeah, So I would say, like you know, everyone around
1899
01:39:54.159 --> 01:39:55.720
the world who can, like you know, obviously help you
1900
01:39:55.800 --> 01:39:58.119
with like you know, with that with your fundraiser to
1901
01:39:58.199 --> 01:39:59.680
pay your fines.
1902
01:39:59.279 --> 01:40:01.199
Right, that that would be great.
1903
01:40:01.800 --> 01:40:05.560
But the ideal outcome and the moral outcome of all
1904
01:40:05.600 --> 01:40:08.239
of these should be that the whole, the whole thing
1905
01:40:08.279 --> 01:40:11.840
should be struck off. Yeah, right, Whether you want to
1906
01:40:11.880 --> 01:40:15.479
go back to your career in education or not, right
1907
01:40:15.640 --> 01:40:16.840
that that that is up to.
1908
01:40:16.800 --> 01:40:20.239
You, right, But I mean putting.
1909
01:40:20.039 --> 01:40:22.800
You in a situation like that plus imposing on yourself,
1910
01:40:23.039 --> 01:40:25.960
like you know, they've taken away your career, plus they're like,
1911
01:40:26.000 --> 01:40:27.760
you know, imposing all these costs on you, they're like
1912
01:40:27.840 --> 01:40:30.079
in the tens of thousands of dollars that you have
1913
01:40:30.159 --> 01:40:35.960
to pay, right, I mean, I mean anyone, anyone, and
1914
01:40:36.159 --> 01:40:38.720
regardless of your political views, you like just saying that
1915
01:40:38.760 --> 01:40:40.800
you don't like just saying that you you think COVID
1916
01:40:40.920 --> 01:40:44.359
was dangerous, not dangerous. You've taken no vaccines or you've
1917
01:40:44.399 --> 01:40:46.840
taken five vaccines, it doesn't matter. You can see that
1918
01:40:46.920 --> 01:40:49.399
this makes no sense. This is an obvious case. And
1919
01:40:49.399 --> 01:40:51.359
that's why I wanted to have you on because this
1920
01:40:51.520 --> 01:40:54.079
is an obvious case. But nothing makes sense. And I
1921
01:40:54.079 --> 01:40:56.640
mean even like you know, the the the the uh
1922
01:40:57.159 --> 01:40:59.720
that article and stuff that that you know we've discussed
1923
01:40:59.720 --> 01:41:02.039
and that I've shown, you can see that the article
1924
01:41:02.079 --> 01:41:04.479
doesn't even make sense, and the people who like.
1925
01:41:04.479 --> 01:41:08.840
The out that published it, no, that doesn't make any sense.
1926
01:41:08.880 --> 01:41:10.039
That's why there's no name to it.
1927
01:41:10.159 --> 01:41:12.600
No journalist wants to put their name behind something like
1928
01:41:12.640 --> 01:41:13.960
that because it's garbage.
1929
01:41:14.439 --> 01:41:16.119
That's right, That's right.
1930
01:41:16.199 --> 01:41:18.880
So yeah, I think, I think, I think this is
1931
01:41:18.920 --> 01:41:21.359
this is just I mean, I mean I don't know
1932
01:41:21.439 --> 01:41:23.640
every every time. I mean I've had like you know,
1933
01:41:23.640 --> 01:41:25.720
when we had our previous discussion about like you know,
1934
01:41:25.760 --> 01:41:28.560
the Royal Commission, they were like stuff that that blew
1935
01:41:28.640 --> 01:41:30.600
my mind. But I mean, this is this is just
1936
01:41:30.600 --> 01:41:33.560
like you know, this is something out of the Twilight Zone.
1937
01:41:33.720 --> 01:41:36.800
But as a result, I mean, someone like you, like
1938
01:41:36.880 --> 01:41:39.720
you know, who's like had an exemplar a career, is
1939
01:41:39.760 --> 01:41:41.439
now in a situation where, like you.
1940
01:41:41.399 --> 01:41:43.319
Know, you could be saying, like you know, bankruptcy or
1941
01:41:43.359 --> 01:41:44.520
stuff like that for what.
1942
01:41:45.319 --> 01:41:49.720
Yeah yeah, well I mean interestingly, and you know there's
1943
01:41:49.720 --> 01:41:51.119
a good chance I'm going to have to go on
1944
01:41:51.119 --> 01:41:54.039
the unemployment benefit. So I mean, how crazy is that?
1945
01:41:54.319 --> 01:41:57.399
You know, you've been a contributed financially all your life
1946
01:41:57.439 --> 01:41:59.359
and then now you're struck off and you can't work,
1947
01:41:59.399 --> 01:42:01.159
and you know, it's just.
1948
01:42:02.640 --> 01:42:04.319
And then I feel like you know, bird flow comes
1949
01:42:04.319 --> 01:42:06.239
in and say, oh no, you gotta get vaccinated for
1950
01:42:06.279 --> 01:42:06.680
bird flow.
1951
01:42:06.720 --> 01:42:07.760
Otherwise no unemployment.
1952
01:42:07.760 --> 01:42:11.920
But I mean, I mean, especially in New Zealand, every time,
1953
01:42:12.199 --> 01:42:13.760
every time I hear these stories from your.
1954
01:42:15.359 --> 01:42:16.840
I mean, this is wild.
1955
01:42:16.880 --> 01:42:19.439
I mean there's a lot of places that have seen tyranny, right,
1956
01:42:19.520 --> 01:42:21.439
but I mean some of the stories, I mean, they're
1957
01:42:21.479 --> 01:42:24.039
just like they're coming, like you know, from your neck
1958
01:42:24.079 --> 01:42:24.520
of the woods.
1959
01:42:24.560 --> 01:42:27.920
They just make uptal ten. So I urge again people
1960
01:42:27.960 --> 01:42:29.720
in New Zealand who are like, you know, watching this.
1961
01:42:30.680 --> 01:42:34.640
You have an election, you have a deputy Prime minister
1962
01:42:34.840 --> 01:42:35.720
or I don't know, wants.
1963
01:42:35.600 --> 01:42:38.079
To probably like you know, maybe be prime minister right
1964
01:42:38.359 --> 01:42:40.680
and says that we've done a lot of wrong things
1965
01:42:40.760 --> 01:42:42.600
during COVID and we promised to do better.
1966
01:42:43.239 --> 01:42:44.920
Well, maybe start with this.
1967
01:42:45.279 --> 01:42:51.800
That's pretty doesn't require legislation changes, doesn't require row commissions,
1968
01:42:52.000 --> 01:42:55.960
doesn't require like you know, investing money in litigation, doesn't
1969
01:42:56.000 --> 01:43:00.439
require anything. Yeah, but this is nortant so you know
1970
01:43:01.439 --> 01:43:06.359
income Winston peters right back back your words with actions.
1971
01:43:06.439 --> 01:43:07.319
That's what I would say.
1972
01:43:07.960 --> 01:43:13.600
Yeah, definitely, people can email either there, you know, and
1973
01:43:13.840 --> 01:43:19.319
the MP of the Education Ministry Administer Caation Erica Stamford
1974
01:43:19.439 --> 01:43:24.760
and or Winston Peters and just and just ask for
1975
01:43:25.720 --> 01:43:29.359
a review of Catherine's situation, you know, so that we
1976
01:43:29.439 --> 01:43:33.199
can you know, who knows what's ahead of us. It
1977
01:43:33.239 --> 01:43:35.239
could be that at some point there will be an
1978
01:43:35.239 --> 01:43:38.319
acknowledgement and an apology to the people that have been
1979
01:43:38.359 --> 01:43:41.840
harmed by this era. But we've just got to keep fighting,
1980
01:43:42.720 --> 01:43:46.800
keep raising awareness. Thank you very much for having this
1981
01:43:46.920 --> 01:43:48.159
conversation with us.
1982
01:43:48.439 --> 01:43:49.600
Yeah, I really appreciate it.
1983
01:43:50.279 --> 01:43:52.159
Well, before we end, I just wanted to also, like,
1984
01:43:52.199 --> 01:43:55.319
you know, help people understand. So while you were going
1985
01:43:55.359 --> 01:43:58.680
through this process for four years, were you under any
1986
01:43:58.840 --> 01:44:01.800
like GAB orders that you were basically not allowed to
1987
01:44:01.840 --> 01:44:04.640
talk about it publicly or you just basically chose to
1988
01:44:04.720 --> 01:44:06.840
keep things to yourself and kind of face all of
1989
01:44:06.840 --> 01:44:07.520
that alone.
1990
01:44:07.960 --> 01:44:08.439
Good question.
1991
01:44:08.560 --> 01:44:11.319
Well, I mean I did choose to keep it quiet,
1992
01:44:11.319 --> 01:44:13.520
but I mean I never expected it to go on
1993
01:44:13.600 --> 01:44:17.920
as long as it did. And I was also I
1994
01:44:18.039 --> 01:44:21.119
was also positive and thinking that there's no way they
1995
01:44:21.119 --> 01:44:23.399
can implicate me because I haven't done anything wrong. So
1996
01:44:23.479 --> 01:44:26.600
I was not expecting this outcome at all. I was
1997
01:44:26.600 --> 01:44:30.159
fully expecting. I was actually thinking, Okay, probably the worst
1998
01:44:30.199 --> 01:44:32.399
they'll do is make me do a course on privacy
1999
01:44:32.520 --> 01:44:35.680
or something like that, which is the you know, that's
2000
01:44:35.720 --> 01:44:39.960
what they tend to offer people in similar situations. So
2001
01:44:40.479 --> 01:44:43.239
it doesn't make sense to me why I wasn't offered
2002
01:44:43.279 --> 01:44:46.760
those things. And so when I got told I was
2003
01:44:46.800 --> 01:44:48.640
struck off, it was it was a shock to me.
2004
01:44:50.119 --> 01:44:53.159
And yeah, I really don't have any more words.
2005
01:44:53.279 --> 01:44:55.199
They want to they want to make they want to
2006
01:44:55.199 --> 01:44:57.079
make an example of you, because.
2007
01:44:57.920 --> 01:44:59.079
Yes, to have a chip.
2008
01:44:59.239 --> 01:45:03.000
It will be a chick effect on other cases and
2009
01:45:03.279 --> 01:45:06.439
people from other professions who want to stand up for
2010
01:45:06.479 --> 01:45:10.199
what is right. You know, this is what happens, sending
2011
01:45:10.199 --> 01:45:13.119
a very powerful message to some people who still live
2012
01:45:13.159 --> 01:45:16.039
in fear of what the authority can do to them
2013
01:45:16.439 --> 01:45:19.800
and their livelihoods and their families, et cetera. So yeah,
2014
01:45:19.840 --> 01:45:22.960
we've somehow we've got to overcome those fears and stand
2015
01:45:23.000 --> 01:45:23.840
up for what is right.
2016
01:45:26.199 --> 01:45:28.800
And I mean you've you've chosen to stand up Catherine,
2017
01:45:28.880 --> 01:45:31.800
and and and definitely I mean, uh, people should support
2018
01:45:31.840 --> 01:45:34.319
you for that, not just financially, but also like you
2019
01:45:34.359 --> 01:45:37.239
know what what you said, especially now, and that's why
2020
01:45:37.239 --> 01:45:39.039
I think it's important to like, you know, do this
2021
01:45:39.159 --> 01:45:42.279
interview now as New Zealand is heading into elections, this
2022
01:45:42.319 --> 01:45:44.439
is a good time to put pressure, right, This is
2023
01:45:44.479 --> 01:45:46.960
a good time and you're just a case study.
2024
01:45:47.119 --> 01:45:49.319
But the idea is okay, Well, Wins computers.
2025
01:45:49.359 --> 01:45:52.199
You're saying that, you know, the government, the previous government
2026
01:45:52.199 --> 01:45:55.199
has done a lot of bad things during COVID. Cool, awesome,
2027
01:45:55.640 --> 01:45:58.640
we put some put some actions into your behind the
2028
01:45:58.720 --> 01:46:01.439
world right for me to like stranging stuff anyone who's
2029
01:46:01.479 --> 01:46:05.159
been suspended for like you know, any any supposed like
2030
01:46:05.199 --> 01:46:09.199
you know, in discretion during COVID, Right, that's right.
2031
01:46:09.279 --> 01:46:11.560
I mean we don't want we don't want to just
2032
01:46:11.600 --> 01:46:13.640
be told about, you know, we don't want them just
2033
01:46:13.600 --> 01:46:15.399
to have awarness of it. We want them to actually
2034
01:46:15.439 --> 01:46:16.000
do something.
2035
01:46:16.640 --> 01:46:18.880
Yeah, all right.
2036
01:46:19.279 --> 01:46:21.119
I think I think this is a this is a
2037
01:46:21.159 --> 01:46:24.079
good point to leave it at that. I think there's like,
2038
01:46:24.119 --> 01:46:26.680
you know, a lot of takeaways for people both in
2039
01:46:26.680 --> 01:46:29.680
in New Zealand And and and globally, but especially for
2040
01:46:29.720 --> 01:46:30.600
people in New Zealand.
2041
01:46:30.600 --> 01:46:33.199
I think I think this is a this is.
2042
01:46:33.159 --> 01:46:37.319
A case of like, you know, growth injustice, uh, like
2043
01:46:37.359 --> 01:46:40.680
you know, amplified by a hit piece in a legacy
2044
01:46:40.720 --> 01:46:42.960
media outlet that doesn't even have an author This is
2045
01:46:43.000 --> 01:46:44.439
like the sort of stuff that like, you know, brings
2046
01:46:44.479 --> 01:46:46.279
us back to twenty twenty one, where we had all
2047
01:46:46.279 --> 01:46:48.840
these like hit pieces against the anti vatters that had
2048
01:46:48.840 --> 01:46:51.640
no authors and like nobody would behind them, and like
2049
01:46:51.680 --> 01:46:53.840
you know, for you know, that could be being written
2050
01:46:53.840 --> 01:46:55.119
by the government itself, you.
2051
01:46:55.039 --> 01:46:57.640
Know so, and and this is supposed to be a
2052
01:46:57.680 --> 01:47:00.079
different government, right, this is a conservative This is.
2053
01:47:00.159 --> 01:47:02.359
Not the woke like you know, our then government.
2054
01:47:02.359 --> 01:47:05.560
I mean, come on, guys, right, wake up, and and uh,
2055
01:47:06.119 --> 01:47:08.840
this lady needs help, and I think it's time to
2056
01:47:08.920 --> 01:47:10.319
end this nonsense, right.
2057
01:47:10.560 --> 01:47:13.479
Fix up, fix it, fix this up. And if your
2058
01:47:13.520 --> 01:47:15.439
government doesn't doesn't want to do it, then you you
2059
01:47:15.560 --> 01:47:18.439
force them and make them to do it. Yeah, that's
2060
01:47:18.479 --> 01:47:21.960
all I would say. All right, ladies, anybody who work
2061
01:47:22.039 --> 01:47:23.359
on Catherine before we end.
2062
01:47:24.239 --> 01:47:26.840
Not really, I mean, obviously, I just appreciate anybody that's
2063
01:47:26.880 --> 01:47:29.800
prepared to share my story and bring awareness to it,
2064
01:47:30.039 --> 01:47:32.680
and also anybody that's in a position to support me
2065
01:47:32.840 --> 01:47:35.199
with those fines would be greatly appreciated. But thank you
2066
01:47:35.199 --> 01:47:37.319
so much for your time. I've really appreciated being able
2067
01:47:37.359 --> 01:47:38.199
to share my story.
2068
01:47:38.840 --> 01:47:42.000
Awesome, awesome, my pleasure, and thank you for coming on
2069
01:47:42.159 --> 01:47:42.920
and thank you.
2070
01:47:43.359 --> 01:47:44.760
Thank you as always Ursula.
2071
01:47:45.359 --> 01:47:48.880
No no worries, Thank you Catherine, thanks for sharing.
2072
01:47:49.880 --> 01:47:51.159
Bye bye, thank you bye,