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This is What's at Risk with Mike Christian on WBZ,
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Boston's news radio. Hi, Mike Christian. Here of What's at Risk.
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First up on tonight's show, we have a special encore
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edition of What's at Risk with Patricia Walsh Chadwick, author
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of Breaking Glass Tales from the Witch of Wall Street.
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She shares her true story of growing up in a constrictive,
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cult like Catholic community and ultimately building a successful thirty
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year career in the investment business, culminating as a global
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partner at Invesco. And in our second segment, we speak
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with Jack Carey, executive director of Live Oak Wilderness Camp
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in Mississippi. Jack shares an epic story about running solo
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across America and talks with passion about the Live Oak
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Wilderness Camp and its leadership initiatives and experiences for youth
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from New Orleans. Patricia Walls Chadwick was born in Cambridge, Massachusetts,
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in nineteen forty eight. She received her BA in Economics
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from Boston University and had a successful thirty year career
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in the investment business, culminating as a global partner at Invesco. Today,
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she sits on a number of corporate boards, and blogs
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on economics, social and political issues. Her pro bono activities
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include mentoring young women in high school and college and
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providing strategic planning advice to not for profit organizations. In
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twenty sixteen, she co founded Anchor Health Initiative, a healthcare
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company devoted to the needs of the LGBTQ community in Connecticut,
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and serves as the firm's pro bono CEO. She is
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the author of a previous memoir, Little Sisters. A mother
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to twins, a daughter and son. She lives in Connecticut
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with her husband John. She is also the author of
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Breaking Glass Tales from the Witch of Wall Street.
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Good Way.
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By your Oh okay, money.
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Is cad as.
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We're talking with Patricia Walsh Chadwick, author of Breaking Glass
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Tales from the Witch of Wall Street. Patricia, you have
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a fascinating story that began well before your successful Wall
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Street career, and prior to this most recent book. You
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began telling the story, I think in a twenty nineteen
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memoir called Little Sister. You would you mind starting with
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your background from that point?
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Sure?
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My member our Little Sister, which I did come out
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five years ago. What's the story of my growing up
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in what had started off as a very Catholic religious community,
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and it was birthed in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and it was
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founded in the nineteen forties and it had as its
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leader a woman named Catherine Clark who founded it, and
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she brought in a renowned Jesuit priest, Leonard Feeney, to
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be the chaplain.
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During the war and after the.
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War, many young men and women were on the GI
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bill going to Harvard, Radcliffe and other schools, and father
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Feeney was really a beacon of Catholicism for many of
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this people converted, many sent some off to the seminary,
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married many of them, and he was a very, very
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loved personality. And after the war, however, the Archbishop of Boston,
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Richard Cushing, who became Cardinal Cushing eventually, was really trying
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to open the door for humanism, and father Feenie at
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the center would have none of it. And he was
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very adamant in no leeway on interpretation of outside the
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Catholic Church. There was no salvation, which was a dogma
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of the Catholic Church. And so little by little many
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of his followers, young students left him and a small
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contingent of people remained, and in December of nineteen forty eight,
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Cushing told Father Feenie that he could no longer practice
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in the Diocese of Boston. Now, my father and mother
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met at the Center, as it was called, this Catholic
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social club, an engagement place. My mother was nineteen, had
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just become a Catholic, my father was thirty, and I had
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just fought the entire war as a naval officer. They
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got married six months later, and I came a year
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after that, so I was an infant. And in early
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nineteen forty nine, my father and two other people associated
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with the Center were fired from Boston College, where my
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father was getting his master's degree and was teaching, And
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it was because they allied themselves with Father feening So
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suddenly this small group of fifty men and women and
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a few children and a number of married couples was
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very much kind of outside the church. And when my
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father lost his job, as with the other two professors,
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they basically sold their houses and gave the money to
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the Center, and from that was formed this legitimate commune
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of sorts. Everybody shared their wealth, their earnings, whatever they
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were doing, and that was the environment I grew up
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in having what I thought was the most wonderful life,
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fifty uncles and aunts, it would take me to the
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Charles River and all that kind of thing. And continued
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to live in a house with my parents that was
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a three family house, and other families were living on
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the other two floors, and pretty soon there were nine children,
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so that made a group of about one hundred, and
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all of a sudden, one day things changed dramatically. I
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was six years old, I had four younger siblings, and
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all the children that were three and over were separated
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from their parents and told they were going to live
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in dormitories, the boys on one floor, the girls on another,
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and the parents would simply be with their remaining children.
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And as each child got to be three years old,
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they were separated, and then the parents were forced to
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take powers of celibacy. And you might say forced, how
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can you be forced? But it was coercion. Father feene
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approached the couples. My parents said absolutely not not, And
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shortly thereafter Father Feenie came back to them and said,
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you're the only couple that's standing out and not doing this.
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And they thought, gosh, we want just the best Catholic
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education for our children. I guess we'd better go along
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with it, and many years later I would find out
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that other children were told by their parents that father
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Femi had done the very same thing to them, So
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it was a horrific manipulation. From thereforward, we became monastic
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and when I was nine years old nineteen fifty eight,
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we left Cambridge. We moved to still River and then
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everybody was separated. The men lived in a different building
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from the women. The women were in a separate part
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of the building. The children were separated. We were taught
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there and we met for meals, and silence was the rule.
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We had no television, nobody know, no newspapers, no communication
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with the outside world.
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And we were told, the thirty nine.
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Of us, that we were the most chosen children in
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the world because from the day of our birth we
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were dedicated to God and we were expected to become
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nuns and brothers.
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Well, I wasn't really interested in becoming a nun.
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My dream was to have a prince, a handsome prince, come,
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sweep me off my feet, take me to his castle,
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and we would have many children, even though I hadn't
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a clue how all that would happen, and by the
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time I was thirteen or fourteen, I was actually developing crushes.
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And it was at that point that sister Catherine saw
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that I was not manageable. I mean, they were completely chased.
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I knew very very little about anything. But when I
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was seventeen, she called me into her office and basically
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told me sweetly that I didn't have a vocation. And
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all of a sudden, I realized that she was kicking
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me out. And two hours after I graduated. Because we
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all were schooled and within the community, I was gone.
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My siblings were not told, my parents were informed, but
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they could have no say in the matter, and from
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then on I was on my own. She allowed as
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how I might go to secretarial school so that I
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could get a job, and it was with that set
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of skills that I got my very first job on
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Wall Street as a receptionist.
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Wow, that's an incredible story. So this father, did he
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evolve into being this despotic cult leader or was he
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sort of that way in the beginning. You probably wouldn't
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know because you were a child, but maybe you heard
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about how he evolved to have this control over that
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group of people.
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He was beloved around the world. He spent years in
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churches in Europe Catholics, Catholic nuns, and some of my
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own friends today who were young and Catholic growing up
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outside of the center, they would say that the nuns
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would say a prayer for Father Feenie in their classrooms.
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In fact, there was a time that was a very
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antisemitic place when I was growing up. But there was
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a time when Father Feenie actually embraced the Jews. But
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he changed after World War Two and he basically blamed
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colleges in the United States for the liberal ideals that
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were being taught to young people, which was the reason
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that Sister Catherine would not allow me. And she was
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more than the power behind the throne, but she would
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not allow me to go to college.
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She said I would lose my soul. But in order
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to get there are tiny school accredited. She had me
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apply to Vassar and debate spates have been where my
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father went. I got into both schools, and then she
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made me write a letter to each school saying that
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I would not be coming because my job was done.
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I had been accepted and now their school could be accredited,
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which it was so.
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Then you're out on You're seventeen years old, you're out
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on the street. You're having to defend for yourself. And
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you got a job as an administrative assistant with a
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Wall Street firm or just in a general It was.
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A Broadforge firm called Bowman, And I think I just
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sometimes wonder, you know, what if it had been a
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car rental agency, or what if it had been a
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travel in the sty.
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I'd have no idea what might have might have evolved
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from that.
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But all I wanted to do at the age of
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nineteen when I got out of secretary school was be
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the best receptionist in the world.
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And I think from that I learned a lot.
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I always had my hand up to say yes if
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somebody needed something. I was learning all the time, but
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I was still quite naive when it came to matters
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of the world. But I just had eyes open and
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ears open and mouth shut until I became much more comfortable.
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So I believe your book Breaking Glass tells more of
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that story. As you evolved in your career on Wall Street,
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maybe talk about from being a secretary and being the
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best secretary it could be, how did you end up
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becoming so prominent in the Wall Street world in a
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time which was really difficult for women. Everybody would acknowledge
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that no more, very.
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Many women on Lall Street, particular, when I first started out,
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I will credit a lot, and I dedicate this book
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to the mentors in my life, and they were all men,
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except for.
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One woman who was the principal of our.
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School, and I just felt I had to give her
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a special place of honor. But once I was kicked
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out of the center, the only mentors I had were men,
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and I attribute so much to them, and I've learned
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so much from them. But I also discovered that it
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was wise to be adaptable. I wanted to learn everything,
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but sometimes you think this is the way I'm going
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to do things. And I really had to accept the
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fact that sometimes I had to do something not the
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way I wanted to do it. And then when things
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worked out, you build up confidence, and pretty soon that
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leads to resilience. And so it was a very much
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a baby step at a time. Then when I moved
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to Philadelphia, I felt I had to get out of
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Boston because I just thought everybody would say I knew
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her when and I didn't want people to think of
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me as the receptionist who was now a stock analyst.
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And when I moved to Philadelphia with my best friend
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a girlfriend, that was a big opportunity for me to
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spread my wings. And once again I had an extraordinary
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mentor when I was in Philadelphia. And then I moved
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back to Boston and nineteen seventy four, which was a
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time when the price of oially quad drupled Inflacier was
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through the roof. Interest bates were through the roof, the
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economy was in the tank, the stock market was in
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the tank.
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It was a difficult time.
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And I got a job at a small money management
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firm in Boston, and I can tell the story if
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you just let me briefly. It's a very quick story
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about my mentor, and his name was Stu Harvey. He
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hired me and he gave me the most difficult industry
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in the world to follow, which was the savings and loans,
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because at that time they were all just about going
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bankrupt and I had been there. He was a gruffman,
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he had a spittoon chewing tobacco all the time.
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But he said, my door is open.
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I'll answer any questions you may have, and believe me
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I practically abused that privilege. And then one day I
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heard two people talking about us being acquired by another company,
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and I walked into his office and I said, are
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we being acquired? And he said yes quietly, and I said,
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does that mean last in, first out? Since I had
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just been hired and I figured I'd be the first
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one to be let go. And he said, I'm afraid so,
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and a tear came down my face and he said
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I had just gotten this job. And I was excited,
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and he said, please don't cry. You'll make me cry.
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And I thought, oh my god. So I got out
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of the office quickly went back to my office, and.
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Maybe half an hour.
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An hour later, he walked into my office and he said,
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in his grufflease, I can't get you a job, but
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I can get you an interview. And what I had
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failed to realize was that he had been the director
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of research at Fidelity, so he knew anyone and everyone
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who was any good at all. And he sent me
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down to New York and my interview was an all
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day interview, and at the end of the day they
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offered me the job as a machinery analyst in New York.
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This is November of nineteen seventy four. I came back,
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went into his office early the next morning.
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Was there.
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I had a big smile on my face. But now
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with the benefit of hindsight, I think he already knew
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that I had the job. And I said, I was
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offered the job. And then I did a little coming
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and hyng and I said, you know, I just moved
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back to Boston and my whole family is here.
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What do I do?
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And he just looked me straight in the eye and
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he said, do you want to make it big in
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this world?
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I said yes, and he said go to New York
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and I did.
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Now, that was a man I knew for only less
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than three months of my life, and that was the
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impact he had on me.
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And as a mentor, I really thrived.
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I looked to people to tell me things and then
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I tried to capitalize on it. And he had as
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big an influence on me as people I knew.
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For ten years.
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That's a great story, and it's so true with mentors,
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and they show up when you most need them, and
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they're almost like teachers points in your life, and if
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you're paying attention, it always can help.
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And I had someone recently say to me, oh, I
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had a terrible mentor. I went, whoa, whoa, whoa whoa wo. No,
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there's no such thing.
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As a bad mentor. That person was not a mentor.
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A mentor is someone who is charitable, who is generous,
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who gives their time and their energy for you, and
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there's nothing better.
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Yeah. So you reached the peak of your career on
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Wall Street in New York. I assume I know there's
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other parts to your source. I want to get to those,
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But where did you end up on Wall Street? And
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then why did you at the top of your career,
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It's at the height of success. Why did you decide
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to leave?
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Yes, thank you for putting it that way.
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I became a global partner at Invesco, which is a
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giant money management firm with institutional money, global money, and
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mutual funds. I also became a mother for the first
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time at the age of forty five. I had become
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married to someone who had three children, but I was
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thirty six or seven and I hadn't really talked about
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having more children. He was very busy with his teenage children,
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and all of a sudden, when I was forty, I
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said to myself.
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You have got to talk to him.
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And we were having my fortieth birthday dinner and a
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lovely restaurant in New York, and I said, we have
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to talk about something.
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And I said to him, I really want children.
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He was not expecting that, but and I'm married to
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him to this day. He was fantastic. Of course, I
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was then forty, which means that one has to use
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a lot of intense science in a sense to help.
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And when I was forty five, I gave birth to twins.
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So then when I was fifty one and we were
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having a vacation with our children up in Rhode Island,
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and we came in. He came in one day and
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the children were five, and he said to me, you know,
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this is not a vacation for you. I'm at the
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beach with the children and you are on conference calls.
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And I thought about it. I had a sleepless night
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and the next morning when I woke up and it
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was Labor Day weekend, I said, John, on Tuesday, when
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I go into the office, I am going to retire.
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I'll give them till the end of the year.
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And I walked in and I did that, and I
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walked away from Wall Street because I accepted the fact
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in my own mind that I wanted to raise my
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own children and I had I could have gone on,
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I could have had Nanny's Galore or anything like that,
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and I said no. I remembered my own childhood where
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I didn't have my parents, and I did not want
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at all to have that experience for my children. And
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I left not knowing exactly what I would be doing.
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But I continued to go on Squawk books, and I
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kept myself available, but very much spent my time at
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home and eventually developed a second career as an expert
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witness and a board member for corporate boards and financial
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services companies. So I ended up being able to spend
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the time I needed without a nine to nine job
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and yet be intellectually stimulated.
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It was very rewarding.
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You parlayed that great experience on Wall Street into a
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variety of different things, and you could control your career
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a little better than the pressures of being on Wall Street.
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I'm sure, absolutely, absolutely.
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So I got to ask the question, you don't seem
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too witchy to me. Why do they call you the
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Witch of Wall Street?
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I don't feel very witchy.
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I like to think that witches can work magic community,
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but that I only found out. That's what's really funny.
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I only found out about that five years ago. And
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so I was having my seventieth birthday party. People were
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throwing it for me. I'm now seventy five, And at
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some point in the party, people got up with the
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microphone and we're talking, telling funny little stories. And that's
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the first chapter in this In my second book, it's
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called a Prologue of sorts. One woman got up and
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talked about how she had been at bear Stearns, and
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the head of institutional sales at bear Stearns called her
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in and said, listen, we have this big account at
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City Bank and a lot of the assets are run
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by one woman. But she's very difficult. And she said
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the men, all the men I've put on the account,
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are afraid of her. And I'm hoping that you can
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go in and build a nice rapport with her. And
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this woman was telling my seventieth birthday party friends and
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she said, I'd heard of this woman, but I never
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met her. And all I knew is that when I
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was in on the trading desk floor, the guys would
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referred to her as the Witch.
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Of Wall Street.
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This was my seventieth birthday party. I really fell on
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the floor. I was I mean, I was embarrassed, I
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was mortified. I wanted to disappear. But these were my
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friends and they were all laughing, and I went, how
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can they laugh at such a thing? And then I
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started to think a lot about it, and I finally
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embraced it, and a number of my friends said, don't
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run away from it, because, in a sense, the characteristics
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that might get a man called the Wolf of Wall
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Street or you know, a leader or whatever. You know, energy, leadership, impatience,
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attention to detail, all of those things, sometimes when they're
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exhibited by a woman, she gets called the Witch of
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Wall Street.
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So I decided to embrace it.
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I'm not afraid of it anymore, and I'll find it
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kind of funny and humorous. And I know I worked hard,
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but people just look at men and women in different ways.
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Women will always be more challenged and trying to get
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to the top because they'll be thinking, particularly in the
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investment world, where you can have a meteoric rise of sorts,
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they're thinking, well, what if I invest all this capital
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in her? And then she decides to go and have
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babies and stay at home. And I think it's very
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hard for people to get that idea out of their head,
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and in fact I did it. Old women don't ever
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expect it to be as easy to get to the
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top as it is.
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For a man.
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In the world of finance. It's a twenty four to
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seven business and you have to do what's right for you.
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I think you're right. I think in those days you
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got to look at it. Although chauvinistic and not a
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kind term, which of Wall Street probably was a little
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bit of a compliment from that perspective from those guys, right,
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they wouldn't have been made attentative if you weren't successful
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and you got the name of a book out of it.
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So there you go. So let's talk a little bit
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about you give back a lot. You're on nonprofit board.
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You co founded an organization called Anchor Health Initiative, which
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is Kinnecticut based and it's not for profit for the
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healthcare needs of the LGBTQ community. You consult with nonprofits.
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What inspired all that desire to give back, which I
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think is a wonderful thing at this point in your career.
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Two, I do think that the mentoring I got and
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that helped me be successful. It was something that I
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wanted to replicate. A mentoring can be a thousand different ways.
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It can be sitting on the board of a not
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for profit. It can be a fountain an organization that
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to this day I'm the pro bono CEO of and
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I love, love, love that work, and I think I've
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got a lot of energy. And it's not about money
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at this point. It's about sharing and it's about giving
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back a mentor young women. I used to do it
435
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at our Lady Queen of Angels School. I just met
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one of my mentees the other day. She's up at
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Saint Bonaventure University in upstate New York and she's going
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on to get her nursing and APRN degrees.
439
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I'm so proud of her. It's rewarding to me.
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Giving back and sharing with eithers is a great way
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to spend one's energy.
442
00:23:50.920 --> 00:23:53.599
Yeah, for sure. And I noticed you do some mentoring
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at Crystal Ray, one of the Crystal Ray High schools.
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Yes, that's the one up one hundred.
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And fourth Street. It's now getting her nursing degree.
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Okay, yeah, I'm familiar. I'm familiar with them. Ironically, they
447
00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:09.799
were founded by a Jesuit priest. I have met Joe
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in the past, and.
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00:24:11.480 --> 00:24:12.680
Joe parks very well.
450
00:24:14.119 --> 00:24:16.680
Jesuits followed you all through your life on some level
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and another. That's really interesting.
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I love that. I love the jesuitical approach to things.
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Yeah, well, they're always iconoclastic and causing trouble. Well listen,
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Patricia Chadwick, it's it's been wonderful to talk to you.
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The author of your new book is Breaking Glass Tales
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from the Witch of Wall Street. I really appreciate all
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your insights and thank you for spending the time.
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Thank you, Mike, I.
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Really appreciate doing with you today.
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We'll be right back after the news at the bottom
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of the hour.
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This is What's at Risk with Mike Christian on WBZ,
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00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:11.560
Boston's news radio. Hi, Mike Christian. Here of What's at Risk.
3
00:00:12.119 --> 00:00:14.960
First up on tonight's show, we have a special encore
4
00:00:15.119 --> 00:00:19.280
edition of What's at Risk with Patricia Walsh Chadwick, author
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00:00:19.399 --> 00:00:23.000
of Breaking Glass Tales from the Witch of Wall Street.
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00:00:23.719 --> 00:00:27.120
She shares her true story of growing up in a constrictive,
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cult like Catholic community and ultimately building a successful thirty
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00:00:32.200 --> 00:00:36.079
year career in the investment business, culminating as a global
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partner at Invesco. And in our second segment, we speak
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00:00:40.880 --> 00:00:45.399
with Jack Carey, executive director of Live Oak Wilderness Camp
11
00:00:45.439 --> 00:00:49.799
in Mississippi. Jack shares an epic story about running solo
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00:00:50.039 --> 00:00:54.039
across America and talks with passion about the Live Oak
13
00:00:54.280 --> 00:00:58.799
Wilderness Camp and its leadership initiatives and experiences for youth
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00:00:58.920 --> 00:01:08.120
from New Orleans. Patricia Walls Chadwick was born in Cambridge, Massachusetts,
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in nineteen forty eight. She received her BA in Economics
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00:01:11.959 --> 00:01:15.439
from Boston University and had a successful thirty year career
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00:01:15.439 --> 00:01:20.879
in the investment business, culminating as a global partner at Invesco. Today,
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00:01:21.040 --> 00:01:23.799
she sits on a number of corporate boards, and blogs
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00:01:23.840 --> 00:01:28.439
on economics, social and political issues. Her pro bono activities
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include mentoring young women in high school and college and
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00:01:31.799 --> 00:01:36.519
providing strategic planning advice to not for profit organizations. In
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twenty sixteen, she co founded Anchor Health Initiative, a healthcare
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company devoted to the needs of the LGBTQ community in Connecticut,
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00:01:46.239 --> 00:01:49.840
and serves as the firm's pro bono CEO. She is
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the author of a previous memoir, Little Sisters. A mother
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to twins, a daughter and son. She lives in Connecticut
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with her husband John. She is also the author of
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Breaking Glass Tales from the Witch of Wall Street.
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Good Way.
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By your Oh okay, money.
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Is cad as.
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We're talking with Patricia Walsh Chadwick, author of Breaking Glass
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Tales from the Witch of Wall Street. Patricia, you have
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a fascinating story that began well before your successful Wall
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Street career, and prior to this most recent book. You
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began telling the story, I think in a twenty nineteen
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memoir called Little Sister. You would you mind starting with
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your background from that point?
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Sure?
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My member our Little Sister, which I did come out
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five years ago. What's the story of my growing up
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in what had started off as a very Catholic religious community,
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and it was birthed in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and it was
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founded in the nineteen forties and it had as its
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leader a woman named Catherine Clark who founded it, and
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she brought in a renowned Jesuit priest, Leonard Feeney, to
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be the chaplain.
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During the war and after the.
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War, many young men and women were on the GI
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bill going to Harvard, Radcliffe and other schools, and father
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Feeney was really a beacon of Catholicism for many of
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this people converted, many sent some off to the seminary,
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married many of them, and he was a very, very
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loved personality. And after the war, however, the Archbishop of Boston,
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Richard Cushing, who became Cardinal Cushing eventually, was really trying
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to open the door for humanism, and father Feenie at
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the center would have none of it. And he was
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very adamant in no leeway on interpretation of outside the
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Catholic Church. There was no salvation, which was a dogma
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of the Catholic Church. And so little by little many
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of his followers, young students left him and a small
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contingent of people remained, and in December of nineteen forty eight,
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Cushing told Father Feenie that he could no longer practice
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in the Diocese of Boston. Now, my father and mother
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met at the Center, as it was called, this Catholic
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social club, an engagement place. My mother was nineteen, had
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just become a Catholic, my father was thirty, and I had
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just fought the entire war as a naval officer. They
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got married six months later, and I came a year
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after that, so I was an infant. And in early
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nineteen forty nine, my father and two other people associated
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with the Center were fired from Boston College, where my
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father was getting his master's degree and was teaching, And
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it was because they allied themselves with Father feening So
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suddenly this small group of fifty men and women and
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a few children and a number of married couples was
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very much kind of outside the church. And when my
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father lost his job, as with the other two professors,
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they basically sold their houses and gave the money to
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the Center, and from that was formed this legitimate commune
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of sorts. Everybody shared their wealth, their earnings, whatever they
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were doing, and that was the environment I grew up
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in having what I thought was the most wonderful life,
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fifty uncles and aunts, it would take me to the
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Charles River and all that kind of thing. And continued
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to live in a house with my parents that was
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a three family house, and other families were living on
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the other two floors, and pretty soon there were nine children,
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so that made a group of about one hundred, and
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all of a sudden, one day things changed dramatically. I
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was six years old, I had four younger siblings, and
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all the children that were three and over were separated
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from their parents and told they were going to live
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in dormitories, the boys on one floor, the girls on another,
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and the parents would simply be with their remaining children.
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And as each child got to be three years old,
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they were separated, and then the parents were forced to
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take powers of celibacy. And you might say forced, how
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can you be forced? But it was coercion. Father feene
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approached the couples. My parents said absolutely not not, And
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shortly thereafter Father Feenie came back to them and said,
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you're the only couple that's standing out and not doing this.
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And they thought, gosh, we want just the best Catholic
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education for our children. I guess we'd better go along
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with it, and many years later I would find out
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that other children were told by their parents that father
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Femi had done the very same thing to them, So
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it was a horrific manipulation. From thereforward, we became monastic
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and when I was nine years old nineteen fifty eight,
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we left Cambridge. We moved to still River and then
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everybody was separated. The men lived in a different building
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from the women. The women were in a separate part
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of the building. The children were separated. We were taught
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there and we met for meals, and silence was the rule.
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We had no television, nobody know, no newspapers, no communication
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with the outside world.
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And we were told, the thirty nine.
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Of us, that we were the most chosen children in
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the world because from the day of our birth we
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were dedicated to God and we were expected to become
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nuns and brothers.
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Well, I wasn't really interested in becoming a nun.
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My dream was to have a prince, a handsome prince, come,
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sweep me off my feet, take me to his castle,
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and we would have many children, even though I hadn't
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a clue how all that would happen, and by the
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time I was thirteen or fourteen, I was actually developing crushes.
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And it was at that point that sister Catherine saw
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that I was not manageable. I mean, they were completely chased.
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I knew very very little about anything. But when I
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was seventeen, she called me into her office and basically
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told me sweetly that I didn't have a vocation. And
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all of a sudden, I realized that she was kicking
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me out. And two hours after I graduated. Because we
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all were schooled and within the community, I was gone.
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My siblings were not told, my parents were informed, but
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they could have no say in the matter, and from
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then on I was on my own. She allowed as
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how I might go to secretarial school so that I
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could get a job, and it was with that set
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of skills that I got my very first job on
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Wall Street as a receptionist.
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Wow, that's an incredible story. So this father, did he
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evolve into being this despotic cult leader or was he
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sort of that way in the beginning. You probably wouldn't
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know because you were a child, but maybe you heard
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about how he evolved to have this control over that
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group of people.
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He was beloved around the world. He spent years in
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churches in Europe Catholics, Catholic nuns, and some of my
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own friends today who were young and Catholic growing up
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outside of the center, they would say that the nuns
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would say a prayer for Father Feenie in their classrooms.
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In fact, there was a time that was a very
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antisemitic place when I was growing up. But there was
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a time when Father Feenie actually embraced the Jews. But
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he changed after World War Two and he basically blamed
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colleges in the United States for the liberal ideals that
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were being taught to young people, which was the reason
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that Sister Catherine would not allow me. And she was
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more than the power behind the throne, but she would
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not allow me to go to college.
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She said I would lose my soul. But in order
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to get there are tiny school accredited. She had me
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apply to Vassar and debate spates have been where my
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father went. I got into both schools, and then she
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made me write a letter to each school saying that
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I would not be coming because my job was done.
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I had been accepted and now their school could be accredited,
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which it was so.
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Then you're out on You're seventeen years old, you're out
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on the street. You're having to defend for yourself. And
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you got a job as an administrative assistant with a
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Wall Street firm or just in a general It was.
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A Broadforge firm called Bowman, And I think I just
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sometimes wonder, you know, what if it had been a
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car rental agency, or what if it had been a
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travel in the sty.
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I'd have no idea what might have might have evolved
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from that.
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But all I wanted to do at the age of
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nineteen when I got out of secretary school was be
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the best receptionist in the world.
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And I think from that I learned a lot.
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I always had my hand up to say yes if
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somebody needed something. I was learning all the time, but
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I was still quite naive when it came to matters
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of the world. But I just had eyes open and
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ears open and mouth shut until I became much more comfortable.
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So I believe your book Breaking Glass tells more of
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that story. As you evolved in your career on Wall Street,
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maybe talk about from being a secretary and being the
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best secretary it could be, how did you end up
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becoming so prominent in the Wall Street world in a
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time which was really difficult for women. Everybody would acknowledge
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that no more, very.
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Many women on Lall Street, particular, when I first started out,
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I will credit a lot, and I dedicate this book
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to the mentors in my life, and they were all men,
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except for.
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One woman who was the principal of our.
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School, and I just felt I had to give her
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a special place of honor. But once I was kicked
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out of the center, the only mentors I had were men,
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and I attribute so much to them, and I've learned
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so much from them. But I also discovered that it
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was wise to be adaptable. I wanted to learn everything,
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but sometimes you think this is the way I'm going
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to do things. And I really had to accept the
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fact that sometimes I had to do something not the
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way I wanted to do it. And then when things
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worked out, you build up confidence, and pretty soon that
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leads to resilience. And so it was a very much
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a baby step at a time. Then when I moved
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to Philadelphia, I felt I had to get out of
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Boston because I just thought everybody would say I knew
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her when and I didn't want people to think of
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me as the receptionist who was now a stock analyst.
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And when I moved to Philadelphia with my best friend
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a girlfriend, that was a big opportunity for me to
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spread my wings. And once again I had an extraordinary
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mentor when I was in Philadelphia. And then I moved
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back to Boston and nineteen seventy four, which was a
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time when the price of oially quad drupled Inflacier was
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through the roof. Interest bates were through the roof, the
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economy was in the tank, the stock market was in
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the tank.
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It was a difficult time.
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And I got a job at a small money management
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firm in Boston, and I can tell the story if
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you just let me briefly. It's a very quick story
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about my mentor, and his name was Stu Harvey. He
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hired me and he gave me the most difficult industry
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in the world to follow, which was the savings and loans,
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because at that time they were all just about going
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bankrupt and I had been there. He was a gruffman,
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he had a spittoon chewing tobacco all the time.
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But he said, my door is open.
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I'll answer any questions you may have, and believe me
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I practically abused that privilege. And then one day I
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heard two people talking about us being acquired by another company,
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and I walked into his office and I said, are
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we being acquired? And he said yes quietly, and I said,
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does that mean last in, first out? Since I had
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just been hired and I figured I'd be the first
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one to be let go. And he said, I'm afraid so,
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and a tear came down my face and he said
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I had just gotten this job. And I was excited,
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and he said, please don't cry. You'll make me cry.
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And I thought, oh my god. So I got out
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of the office quickly went back to my office, and.
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Maybe half an hour.
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An hour later, he walked into my office and he said,
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in his grufflease, I can't get you a job, but
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I can get you an interview. And what I had
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failed to realize was that he had been the director
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of research at Fidelity, so he knew anyone and everyone
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who was any good at all. And he sent me
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down to New York and my interview was an all
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day interview, and at the end of the day they
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offered me the job as a machinery analyst in New York.
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This is November of nineteen seventy four. I came back,
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went into his office early the next morning.
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Was there.
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I had a big smile on my face. But now
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with the benefit of hindsight, I think he already knew
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that I had the job. And I said, I was
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offered the job. And then I did a little coming
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and hyng and I said, you know, I just moved
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back to Boston and my whole family is here.
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What do I do?
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And he just looked me straight in the eye and
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he said, do you want to make it big in
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this world?
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I said yes, and he said go to New York
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and I did.
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Now, that was a man I knew for only less
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than three months of my life, and that was the
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impact he had on me.
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And as a mentor, I really thrived.
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I looked to people to tell me things and then
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I tried to capitalize on it. And he had as
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big an influence on me as people I knew.
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For ten years.
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That's a great story, and it's so true with mentors,
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and they show up when you most need them, and
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they're almost like teachers points in your life, and if
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you're paying attention, it always can help.
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And I had someone recently say to me, oh, I
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had a terrible mentor. I went, whoa, whoa, whoa whoa wo. No,
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there's no such thing.
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As a bad mentor. That person was not a mentor.
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A mentor is someone who is charitable, who is generous,
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who gives their time and their energy for you, and
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there's nothing better.
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Yeah. So you reached the peak of your career on
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Wall Street in New York. I assume I know there's
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other parts to your source. I want to get to those,
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But where did you end up on Wall Street? And
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then why did you at the top of your career,
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It's at the height of success. Why did you decide
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to leave?
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Yes, thank you for putting it that way.
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I became a global partner at Invesco, which is a
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giant money management firm with institutional money, global money, and
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mutual funds. I also became a mother for the first
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time at the age of forty five. I had become
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married to someone who had three children, but I was
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thirty six or seven and I hadn't really talked about
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having more children. He was very busy with his teenage children,
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and all of a sudden, when I was forty, I
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said to myself.
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You have got to talk to him.
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And we were having my fortieth birthday dinner and a
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lovely restaurant in New York, and I said, we have
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to talk about something.
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And I said to him, I really want children.
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He was not expecting that, but and I'm married to
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him to this day. He was fantastic. Of course, I
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was then forty, which means that one has to use
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a lot of intense science in a sense to help.
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And when I was forty five, I gave birth to twins.
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So then when I was fifty one and we were
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having a vacation with our children up in Rhode Island,
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and we came in. He came in one day and
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the children were five, and he said to me, you know,
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this is not a vacation for you. I'm at the
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beach with the children and you are on conference calls.
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And I thought about it. I had a sleepless night
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and the next morning when I woke up and it
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was Labor Day weekend, I said, John, on Tuesday, when
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I go into the office, I am going to retire.
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I'll give them till the end of the year.
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And I walked in and I did that, and I
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walked away from Wall Street because I accepted the fact
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in my own mind that I wanted to raise my
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own children and I had I could have gone on,
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I could have had Nanny's Galore or anything like that,
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and I said no. I remembered my own childhood where
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I didn't have my parents, and I did not want
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at all to have that experience for my children. And
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I left not knowing exactly what I would be doing.
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But I continued to go on Squawk books, and I
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kept myself available, but very much spent my time at
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home and eventually developed a second career as an expert
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witness and a board member for corporate boards and financial
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services companies. So I ended up being able to spend
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the time I needed without a nine to nine job
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and yet be intellectually stimulated.
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It was very rewarding.
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You parlayed that great experience on Wall Street into a
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variety of different things, and you could control your career
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a little better than the pressures of being on Wall Street.
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I'm sure, absolutely, absolutely.
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So I got to ask the question, you don't seem
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too witchy to me. Why do they call you the
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Witch of Wall Street?
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I don't feel very witchy.
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I like to think that witches can work magic community,
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but that I only found out. That's what's really funny.
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I only found out about that five years ago. And
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so I was having my seventieth birthday party. People were
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throwing it for me. I'm now seventy five, And at
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some point in the party, people got up with the
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microphone and we're talking, telling funny little stories. And that's
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the first chapter in this In my second book, it's
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called a Prologue of sorts. One woman got up and
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talked about how she had been at bear Stearns, and
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the head of institutional sales at bear Stearns called her
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in and said, listen, we have this big account at
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City Bank and a lot of the assets are run
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by one woman. But she's very difficult. And she said
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the men, all the men I've put on the account,
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are afraid of her. And I'm hoping that you can
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go in and build a nice rapport with her. And
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this woman was telling my seventieth birthday party friends and
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she said, I'd heard of this woman, but I never
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met her. And all I knew is that when I
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was in on the trading desk floor, the guys would
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referred to her as the Witch.
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Of Wall Street.
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This was my seventieth birthday party. I really fell on
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the floor. I was I mean, I was embarrassed, I
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was mortified. I wanted to disappear. But these were my
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friends and they were all laughing, and I went, how
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can they laugh at such a thing? And then I
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started to think a lot about it, and I finally
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embraced it, and a number of my friends said, don't
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run away from it, because, in a sense, the characteristics
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that might get a man called the Wolf of Wall
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Street or you know, a leader or whatever. You know, energy, leadership, impatience,
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attention to detail, all of those things, sometimes when they're
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exhibited by a woman, she gets called the Witch of
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Wall Street.
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So I decided to embrace it.
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I'm not afraid of it anymore, and I'll find it
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kind of funny and humorous. And I know I worked hard,
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but people just look at men and women in different ways.
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Women will always be more challenged and trying to get
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to the top because they'll be thinking, particularly in the
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investment world, where you can have a meteoric rise of sorts,
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they're thinking, well, what if I invest all this capital
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in her? And then she decides to go and have
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babies and stay at home. And I think it's very
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hard for people to get that idea out of their head,
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and in fact I did it. Old women don't ever
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expect it to be as easy to get to the
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top as it is.
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For a man.
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In the world of finance. It's a twenty four to
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seven business and you have to do what's right for you.
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I think you're right. I think in those days you
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got to look at it. Although chauvinistic and not a
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kind term, which of Wall Street probably was a little
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bit of a compliment from that perspective from those guys, right,
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they wouldn't have been made attentative if you weren't successful
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and you got the name of a book out of it.
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So there you go. So let's talk a little bit
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about you give back a lot. You're on nonprofit board.
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You co founded an organization called Anchor Health Initiative, which
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is Kinnecticut based and it's not for profit for the
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healthcare needs of the LGBTQ community. You consult with nonprofits.
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What inspired all that desire to give back, which I
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think is a wonderful thing at this point in your career.
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Two, I do think that the mentoring I got and
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that helped me be successful. It was something that I
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wanted to replicate. A mentoring can be a thousand different ways.
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It can be sitting on the board of a not
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for profit. It can be a fountain an organization that
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to this day I'm the pro bono CEO of and
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I love, love, love that work, and I think I've
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got a lot of energy. And it's not about money
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at this point. It's about sharing and it's about giving
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back a mentor young women. I used to do it
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at our Lady Queen of Angels School. I just met
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one of my mentees the other day. She's up at
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Saint Bonaventure University in upstate New York and she's going
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on to get her nursing and APRN degrees.
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I'm so proud of her. It's rewarding to me.
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Giving back and sharing with eithers is a great way
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to spend one's energy.
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Yeah, for sure. And I noticed you do some mentoring
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at Crystal Ray, one of the Crystal Ray High schools.
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Yes, that's the one up one hundred.
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And fourth Street. It's now getting her nursing degree.
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Okay, yeah, I'm familiar. I'm familiar with them. Ironically, they
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were founded by a Jesuit priest. I have met Joe
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in the past, and.
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Joe parks very well.
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Jesuits followed you all through your life on some level
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and another. That's really interesting.
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I love that. I love the jesuitical approach to things.
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Yeah, well, they're always iconoclastic and causing trouble. Well listen,
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Patricia Chadwick, it's it's been wonderful to talk to you.
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The author of your new book is Breaking Glass Tales
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from the Witch of Wall Street. I really appreciate all
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your insights and thank you for spending the time.
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Thank you, Mike, I.
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Really appreciate doing with you today.
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We'll be right back after the news at the bottom
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of the hour.
