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Interiority is looking directly inside the character's head and inside their heart.
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And from it, we understand their emotions, their motivations, their decision-making process, their psychological states, which can be very different from the actions they portray on the page.
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Hey writer, welcome to the Write It Scared Podcast.
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I'm Stacy, your host.
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The podcast is on a break for the summer while I recharge and get ready for season four.
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But I didn't want to leave you hanging.
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Over the next couple months, I will be pulling some favorite solo episodes from the vault, episodes on craft, mindset, and just the messy reality of writing our books.
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Also, as a reminder, the Courage Files will remain open for submissions all summer long.
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The Courage Files is a new segment launching on the podcast in season four where listeners share moments of writing courage, big or small.
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Maybe you finally figured out how to make a tricky scene work, or you finished your draft, or you shared your work.
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Maybe you returned to writing after a long time away, or you simply kept going when it would have been easier to quit.
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Whatever your moment looks like, I want to hear about it.
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And with your permission, share it on the podcast next season to help inspire other writers.
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Because remember, we're in this together.
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Every submission received this summer will be entered for a chance to win a free editorial assessment and book coaching session with me.
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And I'll announce the winner when season four kicks off this fall.
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To submit, go to writeitscared.co forward slash courage hyphen files, or you can find the link in the show notes.
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And if you're diving into planning or drafting a new novel this summer, grab my free novel quick start guide.
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It's called First Draft Confidence, and it's designed to help you build a strong foundation for your story so that you can move into your first draft with more clarity, more confidence, and a whole lot less flailing.
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You can find the novel quick start guide at write itscared.co forward slash novel planning guide, or you can also find the link for that in the show notes.
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All right, so let's get into today's episode and I'll see you back for real in season four.
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Hi, writer.
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Welcome back to another episode of the Ride It Scared Podcast.
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I'm your host, Stacy, and today is a solo show.
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This is episode number 15, and we are going to talk some craft and dig into another micro element of fiction.
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So back in episode number 11, we talked about voice, and previous to that, in episode five, we covered the macro elements of story, which include the author's intention, character, conflict, plot, setting, point of view choice, narrative design.
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So if you're interested in that, go back and take a listen.
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I'll put links in the show notes.
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But today we're going to turn our attention to interiority.
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We're going to talk about what interiority is, how to write it, when to use it, how much to use, and when you might want to leave it out.
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We'll also talk about some of the common mistakes that I see writers struggle with when crafting interiority, and hopefully we're going to belay some fears that many of us writers face around showing versus telling and how much to give away in characters' thoughts.
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Then I'll give you some examples, and then finally, I will give you a reading and writing exercise to help you craft stronger interiority in your fiction.
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So what is interiority?
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To me, this is the playground of fiction.
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This is where we have a chance to go deep inside of our characters, their minds and hearts, and figure out what's really driving them.
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Interiority is the inside life of your point of view character.
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It's their thoughts, their reflections and feelings, things that are not voiced in their dialogue or implied with actions or gestures.
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So interiority is looking directly inside the character's head and inside their heart.
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And from it, we understand their emotions, their motivations, their decision-making process, their psychological states, which can be very different from the actions they portray on the page.
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And to me, that is so fun, that juxtaposition of the character doing one thing, but they're thinking something completely different.
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Interiority allows the reader to understand the character's perspective and empathize with their experiences.
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So a big part of interiority is the character's inner monologue, which is the character's thoughts.
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But that is not the whole thing.
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Interiority is also about showing emotion by expressing the character's physical feelings, the way the situation is creating a physical manifestation in their body.
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Interiority is ultimately a stylistic choice.
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So how much or how little you put on the page or you notice when you read another's author's work is going to vary by book and author.
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And we'll get into when and how much interiority to use in a minute.
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But the bottom line is you want to use enough to deliver the moment's meaning clearly to the reader.
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So don't sacrifice words if it means letting go of vital context.
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Okay, so I'm going to give you several examples of interiority, and then we're going to pick them apart and see how each example affects the moment and informs our experience as readers and contributes to the show-don't tell rule that we often get hammered into our heads.
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So I'll point out the interiority as we go along.
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And all of these examples are things that I have written.
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And I apologize for my lack of oral narration skills.
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I'm definitely not going to be hired for your audiobook.
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Uh, but hopefully you're still gonna have some really good takeaways.
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First, let's start with an example of a passage that has no interiority.
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So here we go.
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I want you to imagine that there's a couple driving on the highway.
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Here's the here's the dialogue.
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Let's stop to eat, John said as he shifted gears.
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I don't know, Shelby replied as she forced a smile.
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We have time, John countered.
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So now in this example, the emotion is completely absent.
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There is no interiority.
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We have no idea what's going on.
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We don't even know who the point of view character is.
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So from that, let's take another look at an example of what's considered weak interiority.
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This is interiority that just repeats what's already been on the page.
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It doesn't lend to a deeper understanding of the characters in any way that makes us as the reader feel something, and it's very telling.
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Let's stop to eat, John said as he shifted gears.
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I don't know, Shelby replied as she forced a smile.
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Here's the interiority.
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She wasn't really hungry.
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Her stomach still felt uncomfortably full from the big meal they'd had last night.
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We have time, John countered.
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Here's interiority from Shelby.
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True, they did.
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They weren't doing Atlanta for another couple of hours, so why not?
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She could just have some coffee.
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John wouldn't care.
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So there's interiority here, but it's boring and it's telling.
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And we still don't know what the hell's going on, right?
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Can you, as the reader, feel anything from these sentences?
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Can you make any connections or infer motivation or any deeper meaning here?
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No.
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No, you can't.
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I didn't give you anything else to go on.
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And also, you don't have to work.
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You don't have to think about it.
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I mean, this lady Shelby's just talking about how her stomach feels full and how they had a big meal.
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And I mean, we don't have any idea like what their relationship is like or why they're talking about this.
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And you don't have to infer anything because I explained it all to you.
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I told you how they feel, I told you what they were thinking about, or at least Shelby.
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At least you can tell who the point of view character is here.
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So, but basically I author explained you, right?
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I locked you out of the experience and limited your participation.
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Okay, now let's try this again with another example, but this time we're going to use interiority to let the reader inside the character's heart and mind.
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Let's stop to eat, John said as he shifted gears.
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I don't know, Shelby replied as she forced a smile.
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And here's her interiority.
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Five months in this joke of a marriage had taught her one thing about the fat bastard in the driver's seat.
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The only thing John consistently thought of was his big old gut.
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Certainly not her, and thank God for that.
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Or how in less than two hours they'd be at a funeral.
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And they'd finally put that son of a bitch good for nothing father in law of hers in the ground.
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After that, the money would come easy, and she could practically taste the freedom it would buy her.
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We have time, John countered.
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Here's interiority from Shelby.
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Yeah, time.
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You think you've got all the time in the world, don't you, Johnny Boy?
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News flash buddy, you don't, because you're going in the ground next.
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So what did you notice?
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What did you learn about Shelby, the POV character?
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What emotions did you detect?
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Here, we're meant to feel irritation, we're meant to feel disdain and disgust and pick up on motives of deceit and revenge, greed, even murder.
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Notice that Shelby's interiority was mostly around her reflections and thoughts about how the moment was affecting her.
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But it also gave us an indication of her desires, hopes, expectations, which created a sense of anticipation within us, the reader, for what's going to happen to Shelby in the future.
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As a bonus, Shelby's interiority also gave her husband John some characterization.
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So it's important to note that I did not tell you how Shelby feels.
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I didn't tell you that she felt disdain.
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I didn't say that her stomach twisted in disgust as she thought of John's big old gut, or that she was angry with her father-in-law and glad he was dead.
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If I did my job well, I didn't have to.
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You, as the reader, were able to make those connections for yourself, and hopefully you enjoyed doing so.
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This is trusting your reader and trusting yourself as a writer, and both take time and practice to learn to do.
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Okay, so let's try this again.
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We'll go at it from a different angle and shoot for different emotions.
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Let's stop to eat, John said as he shifted gears.
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I don't know, Shelby replied as she forced a smile, hoping it was enough to make her husband relax.
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He was always thinking of her, worried for her.
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She desperately wanted to be okay, to have an appetite again, to not vomit the supplement shakes, to run a goddamn brush through the wiry hair she used to complain about and no longer had.
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But the truth was none of those things was going to happen, not with the chemical cocktails regularly pumped into her bloodstream despite her prognosis.
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Palliative care.
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What a bullshit word.
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Why didn't they just call it what it really meant?
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A distraction while they waited for you to waste away.
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We have time, John countered.
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And and here's more interiority, and we have a little physical reaction here.
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An ache formed in her chest.
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Oh, John, baby.
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Time was the one thing they didn't have, and he knew it too.
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Okay, so what did you notice with this passage?
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What did you learn about Shelby, the point of view character, and her husband John?
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What emotions did you detect?
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In this particular example, we were meant to feel ache and loss, anger, sadness, longing, love, and a fear of the future.
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We were also meant to pick up on the motives of two people trying to comfort themselves and each other against a very hard truth that Shelby's gonna die of cancer.
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Now that's a long way from that first example where we thought there was just two people who were simply talking about getting something to eat while they were on the road, right?
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So as you can see, interiority provides us with the context we need to understand the situation, and it illuminates the inside life of our characters.
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And you don't have to tell the reader blatantly what the character is feeling.
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You can still convey the emotions you want to communicate effectively by choosing how to do so based on their thoughts and why.
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So when do you use interiority and how much is too much?
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And I'm not gonna lie, I laid it on pretty thick in those examples just to give you a really good indication of what I was driving at.
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But really how much to use, it's a challenging question.
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There's no hard and fast answer here.
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It depends on your character, their inner workings, the situations, and what you want the reader to feel and also your style.
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But one of the problems that I see many writers struggle with is that they leave out interiority altogether.
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Now, part of this is just the writer's curse of knowledge, meaning that you, as the writer, come to your story with a bias.
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You understand what's motivating your character and how they feel.
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And because of that, it's really easy to forget to put it on the page in a way that allows the reader to experience it.
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More often, writers are worried about telling versus showing when they include interiority.
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If they allow the reader to know what the character thinks and feels, and this is not the case.
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Not if it's done well, but if it's done in a way that lets the reader participate and make inferences.
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That is the key.
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So the solution, err on the side of caution and overdo the interiority for your character because you can always pull it out later if it's overkill.
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So every time something happens in the story that your character should react to, make them make them react on the page.
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Show the reader how it affects them by putting words to their thoughts, feelings, and reflections.
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Show us that they experience physical manifestations in their body.
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Doing so is going to provide your reader with the context they need to understand how the moment is affecting the character and make sense of what they want and what they will do next.
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Now, there are absolutely times when interiority is not necessary.
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And I love the example in Donald Moss's book, The Emotional Craft of Fiction, where he uses a scene from Matthew Quick's novel, The Silver Linings Playbook, to demonstrate when interiority isn't needed and why.
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So I'm going to share this scene with you in summary form, but the scene's told in the first person point of view by the main character who is Pat Peoples.
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Pat struggles with bipolar disorder, and in this scene, he is in a lobby waiting to see his new psychiatrist when a song plays on the loudspeaker.
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And that song triggers Pat into a very emotionally painful and violent outburst.
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But the author, Quick, only shows what the reader can visualize.
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We only see the action and some dialogue.
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Pat's kicking over the table, he's turning over chairs, he's screaming, and then later we have his mother soothing him and rubbing his back before Pat's ushered into the psychiatrist's office.
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There is not an ounce of interiority from Pat on the page in that passage.
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Why not?
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A couple of reasons.
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Number one, the reader didn't need it to experience how hard this was for Pat and how he felt.
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We got it.
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And the second is that Pat's inner life is so volatile, so erratic, that it might be chaos to describe.
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It's probably too chaotic even for the reader to make sense of.
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So the author chose to show the action instead.
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Nothing is lost due to the lack of interiority.
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Remember what I said earlier.
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Use enough to deliver the moment's meeting.
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Don't sacrifice words if it means letting go of vital context.
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We had the context in this situation, so it didn't add anything to go into Pat's thought.
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Okay, if you've not read The Emotional Craft on Fiction by Donald Moss, I highly, highly recommend it.
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So why interiority gives us so much mileage and makes novels unique?
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To me, interiority is the true playground of fiction.
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This is where we can have fun with juxtaposition and watch our protagonists misdirect other characters for their own gain.
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It allows us to deeply understand who our characters are and what they don't want anyone else to see.
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And this fact alone drives the beauty and uniqueness of narrative fiction.
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You can't get inside a character's head in a movie like you can in a novel.
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But here's a word of caution.
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I love interiority, and many writers, especially those who are particularly empathetic, love it too.
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We love to get into all the feels.
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And this means we also risk navel gazing.
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This is where your character is going to spend copious amounts of time in their head, and nothing else really happens.
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So remember, interiority has to play by the same rules as all the other elements of fiction.
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It needs to advance the plot or inform the reader of a new or deeper understanding of the character and their situation.
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But above all, it has to move the story forward.
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So here are some exercises that you can use to spot interiority in a work of fiction that you're reading and analyze how the author put it together.
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So pull out your pins and highlighters, find, you know, a couple passages from a novel that you love, note a point of view choice, and each time the narrator pulls back the curtain and lets you step directly into the character's mind and body.
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So then you want to ask, why did the author do that?
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Why is now the time to let you peek behind the curtain?
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How did it allow you to understand the situation?
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Did it provide the context to understand the moment?
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Did it show you how the character was affected?
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Does it inform what might happen next?
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Did it give you a deeper understanding of the character and did it help drive the narrative forward?
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Did the author tell you explicitly how the character felt, or did they show you instead and allow you to infer?
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Did they allow you to participate?
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How did you experience the scene as the reader?
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And what emotions did you register from a character?
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Did you experience any feelings different from what the character was experiencing?
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So the next step is to try to apply this to your own writing.
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So type up a passage or two from the text that you've selected, highlight all the interiority and name the emotions you noticed, then delete all the parts you highlighted.
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Read through it.
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How does it feel?
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Can you make sense of it?
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What did you lose by removing the interiority?
00:18:45.119 --> 00:18:46.480
Now do your own thing.
00:18:46.799 --> 00:18:54.000
Add in your version of interiority, play with it, change the situation, the context entirely, see what happens and have fun.
00:18:54.319 --> 00:18:55.759
So that was a lot.
00:18:56.240 --> 00:18:59.519
Let's break it down and do some takeaways.
00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:28.720
So for recap, interiority is where you're going to show the character's thoughts and emotions and reflections on the page to help inform the meaning of the moment and the context of the situation so that the reader can better understand the character and empathize with their experience and also anticipate what that character desires and what they want to happen next.
00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:33.039
Using interiority is not telling.
00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:48.319
It can be, but if done well, it is actually a piece of showing that will deepen your reader's understanding and create a more layered and contextual experience for them.
00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:53.119
One of the most common mistakes writers make is leaving out interiority altogether.
00:19:53.440 --> 00:20:00.880
So make sure to include it, overdo it, because you can always pull it back later.
00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:08.480
And how much you choose to use in the end is your choice, a stylistic choice that depends on the character you're writing.
00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:21.440
When you include interiority, make sure to do so in a way that deepens the reader's understanding of the character's experience and that it helps to move the narrative forward.
00:20:21.920 --> 00:20:24.559
So now, go practice, go play, go have fun.
00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:29.839
Remember, no words are wasted, even the practice ones, because honestly, it's all practice.
00:20:30.079 --> 00:20:32.640
Writing is a craft that we will never perfect.
00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:34.400
That's the beauty in it.
00:20:34.640 --> 00:20:38.559
There is always more to learn and different ways to do things.
00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:42.160
So the more you write, the more you will learn and the more you will want to.
00:20:42.319 --> 00:20:43.519
Thank you for tuning in today.
00:20:43.680 --> 00:20:48.240
If you have any questions, you can reach out to me in my email, Stacy at writitscared.co.
00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:51.039
And I will see you next week.
00:20:51.759 --> 00:20:54.640
Thank you for listening to the Ride It Scared podcast.
00:20:54.799 --> 00:20:59.519
If you enjoyed today's show, please make sure to hit the follow button so you never miss an episode.
00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:01.119
And please leave a review.
00:21:01.279 --> 00:21:07.920
Reviews help other writers like you find the voices and messages they need to hear to continue to write their stories.
00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:09.279
Let's lift each other up.
00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:12.240
Remember, you can be scared and still be unstoppable.
00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:14.079
I'll see you next week.
00:00:00.239 --> 00:00:04.879
Interiority is looking directly inside the character's head and inside their heart.
00:00:05.040 --> 00:00:16.719
And from it, we understand their emotions, their motivations, their decision-making process, their psychological states, which can be very different from the actions they portray on the page.
00:00:17.039 --> 00:00:19.760
Hey writer, welcome to the Write It Scared Podcast.
00:00:19.839 --> 00:00:21.359
I'm Stacy, your host.
00:00:21.679 --> 00:00:26.160
The podcast is on a break for the summer while I recharge and get ready for season four.
00:00:26.320 --> 00:00:28.320
But I didn't want to leave you hanging.
00:00:28.559 --> 00:00:37.520
Over the next couple months, I will be pulling some favorite solo episodes from the vault, episodes on craft, mindset, and just the messy reality of writing our books.
00:00:37.759 --> 00:00:43.679
Also, as a reminder, the Courage Files will remain open for submissions all summer long.
00:00:43.920 --> 00:00:50.799
The Courage Files is a new segment launching on the podcast in season four where listeners share moments of writing courage, big or small.
00:00:51.039 --> 00:00:57.679
Maybe you finally figured out how to make a tricky scene work, or you finished your draft, or you shared your work.
00:00:57.840 --> 00:01:03.920
Maybe you returned to writing after a long time away, or you simply kept going when it would have been easier to quit.
00:01:04.159 --> 00:01:06.640
Whatever your moment looks like, I want to hear about it.
00:01:06.719 --> 00:01:11.680
And with your permission, share it on the podcast next season to help inspire other writers.
00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:14.239
Because remember, we're in this together.
00:01:14.480 --> 00:01:21.040
Every submission received this summer will be entered for a chance to win a free editorial assessment and book coaching session with me.
00:01:21.200 --> 00:01:24.799
And I'll announce the winner when season four kicks off this fall.
00:01:25.040 --> 00:01:31.760
To submit, go to writeitscared.co forward slash courage hyphen files, or you can find the link in the show notes.
00:01:32.000 --> 00:01:38.480
And if you're diving into planning or drafting a new novel this summer, grab my free novel quick start guide.
00:01:38.560 --> 00:01:49.760
It's called First Draft Confidence, and it's designed to help you build a strong foundation for your story so that you can move into your first draft with more clarity, more confidence, and a whole lot less flailing.
00:01:50.159 --> 00:01:58.159
You can find the novel quick start guide at write itscared.co forward slash novel planning guide, or you can also find the link for that in the show notes.
00:01:58.400 --> 00:02:02.719
All right, so let's get into today's episode and I'll see you back for real in season four.
00:02:02.959 --> 00:02:03.760
Hi, writer.
00:02:04.000 --> 00:02:06.560
Welcome back to another episode of the Ride It Scared Podcast.
00:02:06.719 --> 00:02:08.960
I'm your host, Stacy, and today is a solo show.
00:02:09.120 --> 00:02:15.759
This is episode number 15, and we are going to talk some craft and dig into another micro element of fiction.
00:02:16.000 --> 00:02:30.400
So back in episode number 11, we talked about voice, and previous to that, in episode five, we covered the macro elements of story, which include the author's intention, character, conflict, plot, setting, point of view choice, narrative design.
00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:32.879
So if you're interested in that, go back and take a listen.
00:02:32.960 --> 00:02:34.479
I'll put links in the show notes.
00:02:34.639 --> 00:02:38.000
But today we're going to turn our attention to interiority.
00:02:38.240 --> 00:02:46.000
We're going to talk about what interiority is, how to write it, when to use it, how much to use, and when you might want to leave it out.
00:02:46.159 --> 00:03:00.080
We'll also talk about some of the common mistakes that I see writers struggle with when crafting interiority, and hopefully we're going to belay some fears that many of us writers face around showing versus telling and how much to give away in characters' thoughts.
00:03:00.319 --> 00:03:11.039
Then I'll give you some examples, and then finally, I will give you a reading and writing exercise to help you craft stronger interiority in your fiction.
00:03:11.280 --> 00:03:13.280
So what is interiority?
00:03:13.520 --> 00:03:16.080
To me, this is the playground of fiction.
00:03:16.240 --> 00:03:23.039
This is where we have a chance to go deep inside of our characters, their minds and hearts, and figure out what's really driving them.
00:03:23.360 --> 00:03:27.039
Interiority is the inside life of your point of view character.
00:03:27.199 --> 00:03:36.159
It's their thoughts, their reflections and feelings, things that are not voiced in their dialogue or implied with actions or gestures.
00:03:36.400 --> 00:03:41.599
So interiority is looking directly inside the character's head and inside their heart.
00:03:41.759 --> 00:03:53.280
And from it, we understand their emotions, their motivations, their decision-making process, their psychological states, which can be very different from the actions they portray on the page.
00:03:53.439 --> 00:04:03.360
And to me, that is so fun, that juxtaposition of the character doing one thing, but they're thinking something completely different.
00:04:03.680 --> 00:04:11.520
Interiority allows the reader to understand the character's perspective and empathize with their experiences.
00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:17.839
So a big part of interiority is the character's inner monologue, which is the character's thoughts.
00:04:18.079 --> 00:04:19.600
But that is not the whole thing.
00:04:19.839 --> 00:04:31.360
Interiority is also about showing emotion by expressing the character's physical feelings, the way the situation is creating a physical manifestation in their body.
00:04:31.680 --> 00:04:34.639
Interiority is ultimately a stylistic choice.
00:04:34.800 --> 00:04:42.639
So how much or how little you put on the page or you notice when you read another's author's work is going to vary by book and author.
00:04:42.800 --> 00:04:46.720
And we'll get into when and how much interiority to use in a minute.
00:04:46.800 --> 00:04:54.160
But the bottom line is you want to use enough to deliver the moment's meaning clearly to the reader.
00:04:54.399 --> 00:04:59.600
So don't sacrifice words if it means letting go of vital context.
00:04:59.920 --> 00:05:20.319
Okay, so I'm going to give you several examples of interiority, and then we're going to pick them apart and see how each example affects the moment and informs our experience as readers and contributes to the show-don't tell rule that we often get hammered into our heads.
00:05:20.639 --> 00:05:23.680
So I'll point out the interiority as we go along.
00:05:23.920 --> 00:05:26.959
And all of these examples are things that I have written.
00:05:27.199 --> 00:05:31.120
And I apologize for my lack of oral narration skills.
00:05:31.279 --> 00:05:34.639
I'm definitely not going to be hired for your audiobook.
00:05:35.279 --> 00:05:38.160
Uh, but hopefully you're still gonna have some really good takeaways.
00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:42.959
First, let's start with an example of a passage that has no interiority.
00:05:43.199 --> 00:05:44.079
So here we go.
00:05:44.319 --> 00:05:48.319
I want you to imagine that there's a couple driving on the highway.
00:05:48.639 --> 00:05:50.639
Here's the here's the dialogue.
00:05:50.879 --> 00:05:54.399
Let's stop to eat, John said as he shifted gears.
00:05:54.639 --> 00:05:57.519
I don't know, Shelby replied as she forced a smile.
00:05:57.680 --> 00:05:59.519
We have time, John countered.
00:05:59.759 --> 00:06:03.519
So now in this example, the emotion is completely absent.
00:06:03.680 --> 00:06:05.199
There is no interiority.
00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:06.959
We have no idea what's going on.
00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:09.839
We don't even know who the point of view character is.
00:06:10.079 --> 00:06:16.079
So from that, let's take another look at an example of what's considered weak interiority.
00:06:16.240 --> 00:06:19.839
This is interiority that just repeats what's already been on the page.
00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:27.920
It doesn't lend to a deeper understanding of the characters in any way that makes us as the reader feel something, and it's very telling.
00:06:28.240 --> 00:06:31.279
Let's stop to eat, John said as he shifted gears.
00:06:31.439 --> 00:06:34.000
I don't know, Shelby replied as she forced a smile.
00:06:34.160 --> 00:06:35.279
Here's the interiority.
00:06:35.439 --> 00:06:36.720
She wasn't really hungry.
00:06:36.879 --> 00:06:42.000
Her stomach still felt uncomfortably full from the big meal they'd had last night.
00:06:42.720 --> 00:06:44.800
We have time, John countered.
00:06:45.040 --> 00:06:46.959
Here's interiority from Shelby.
00:06:47.199 --> 00:06:48.480
True, they did.
00:06:48.720 --> 00:06:52.079
They weren't doing Atlanta for another couple of hours, so why not?
00:06:52.240 --> 00:06:53.519
She could just have some coffee.
00:06:53.759 --> 00:06:55.120
John wouldn't care.
00:06:55.439 --> 00:07:00.160
So there's interiority here, but it's boring and it's telling.
00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:03.199
And we still don't know what the hell's going on, right?
00:07:03.680 --> 00:07:06.959
Can you, as the reader, feel anything from these sentences?
00:07:07.120 --> 00:07:12.079
Can you make any connections or infer motivation or any deeper meaning here?
00:07:12.399 --> 00:07:12.720
No.
00:07:13.040 --> 00:07:13.839
No, you can't.
00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:16.000
I didn't give you anything else to go on.
00:07:16.240 --> 00:07:18.319
And also, you don't have to work.
00:07:18.480 --> 00:07:19.600
You don't have to think about it.
00:07:19.839 --> 00:07:25.680
I mean, this lady Shelby's just talking about how her stomach feels full and how they had a big meal.
00:07:25.759 --> 00:07:30.319
And I mean, we don't have any idea like what their relationship is like or why they're talking about this.
00:07:30.399 --> 00:07:33.680
And you don't have to infer anything because I explained it all to you.
00:07:33.839 --> 00:07:37.839
I told you how they feel, I told you what they were thinking about, or at least Shelby.
00:07:38.000 --> 00:07:40.480
At least you can tell who the point of view character is here.
00:07:40.560 --> 00:07:43.199
So, but basically I author explained you, right?
00:07:43.360 --> 00:07:47.439
I locked you out of the experience and limited your participation.
00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:56.879
Okay, now let's try this again with another example, but this time we're going to use interiority to let the reader inside the character's heart and mind.
00:07:57.120 --> 00:08:00.160
Let's stop to eat, John said as he shifted gears.
00:08:00.399 --> 00:08:03.600
I don't know, Shelby replied as she forced a smile.
00:08:03.839 --> 00:08:06.079
And here's her interiority.
00:08:06.639 --> 00:08:12.000
Five months in this joke of a marriage had taught her one thing about the fat bastard in the driver's seat.
00:08:12.240 --> 00:08:15.680
The only thing John consistently thought of was his big old gut.
00:08:15.839 --> 00:08:18.000
Certainly not her, and thank God for that.
00:08:18.319 --> 00:08:21.199
Or how in less than two hours they'd be at a funeral.
00:08:21.360 --> 00:08:26.160
And they'd finally put that son of a bitch good for nothing father in law of hers in the ground.
00:08:26.319 --> 00:08:31.199
After that, the money would come easy, and she could practically taste the freedom it would buy her.
00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:33.360
We have time, John countered.
00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:35.600
Here's interiority from Shelby.
00:08:35.759 --> 00:08:36.639
Yeah, time.
00:08:37.039 --> 00:08:40.000
You think you've got all the time in the world, don't you, Johnny Boy?
00:08:40.159 --> 00:08:43.840
News flash buddy, you don't, because you're going in the ground next.
00:08:44.080 --> 00:08:45.279
So what did you notice?
00:08:45.440 --> 00:08:48.159
What did you learn about Shelby, the POV character?
00:08:48.320 --> 00:08:50.240
What emotions did you detect?
00:08:50.559 --> 00:09:00.159
Here, we're meant to feel irritation, we're meant to feel disdain and disgust and pick up on motives of deceit and revenge, greed, even murder.
00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:08.720
Notice that Shelby's interiority was mostly around her reflections and thoughts about how the moment was affecting her.
00:09:09.039 --> 00:09:21.759
But it also gave us an indication of her desires, hopes, expectations, which created a sense of anticipation within us, the reader, for what's going to happen to Shelby in the future.
00:09:22.000 --> 00:09:28.159
As a bonus, Shelby's interiority also gave her husband John some characterization.
00:09:28.399 --> 00:09:32.799
So it's important to note that I did not tell you how Shelby feels.
00:09:33.039 --> 00:09:35.279
I didn't tell you that she felt disdain.
00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:44.480
I didn't say that her stomach twisted in disgust as she thought of John's big old gut, or that she was angry with her father-in-law and glad he was dead.
00:09:44.720 --> 00:09:47.679
If I did my job well, I didn't have to.
00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:53.679
You, as the reader, were able to make those connections for yourself, and hopefully you enjoyed doing so.
00:09:54.080 --> 00:10:01.200
This is trusting your reader and trusting yourself as a writer, and both take time and practice to learn to do.
00:10:01.440 --> 00:10:03.039
Okay, so let's try this again.
00:10:03.200 --> 00:10:07.440
We'll go at it from a different angle and shoot for different emotions.
00:10:07.679 --> 00:10:10.559
Let's stop to eat, John said as he shifted gears.
00:10:10.799 --> 00:10:16.240
I don't know, Shelby replied as she forced a smile, hoping it was enough to make her husband relax.
00:10:16.399 --> 00:10:18.960
He was always thinking of her, worried for her.
00:10:19.120 --> 00:10:29.519
She desperately wanted to be okay, to have an appetite again, to not vomit the supplement shakes, to run a goddamn brush through the wiry hair she used to complain about and no longer had.
00:10:29.840 --> 00:10:37.759
But the truth was none of those things was going to happen, not with the chemical cocktails regularly pumped into her bloodstream despite her prognosis.
00:10:38.080 --> 00:10:39.200
Palliative care.
00:10:39.360 --> 00:10:40.960
What a bullshit word.
00:10:41.360 --> 00:10:43.600
Why didn't they just call it what it really meant?
00:10:43.759 --> 00:10:46.240
A distraction while they waited for you to waste away.
00:10:46.399 --> 00:10:48.000
We have time, John countered.
00:10:48.320 --> 00:10:52.799
And and here's more interiority, and we have a little physical reaction here.
00:10:54.080 --> 00:10:56.080
An ache formed in her chest.
00:10:56.320 --> 00:10:57.600
Oh, John, baby.
00:10:57.840 --> 00:11:00.960
Time was the one thing they didn't have, and he knew it too.
00:11:01.519 --> 00:11:04.960
Okay, so what did you notice with this passage?
00:11:05.120 --> 00:11:08.559
What did you learn about Shelby, the point of view character, and her husband John?
00:11:08.799 --> 00:11:10.799
What emotions did you detect?
00:11:11.120 --> 00:11:18.879
In this particular example, we were meant to feel ache and loss, anger, sadness, longing, love, and a fear of the future.
00:11:19.120 --> 00:11:28.240
We were also meant to pick up on the motives of two people trying to comfort themselves and each other against a very hard truth that Shelby's gonna die of cancer.
00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:37.919
Now that's a long way from that first example where we thought there was just two people who were simply talking about getting something to eat while they were on the road, right?
00:11:38.320 --> 00:11:49.759
So as you can see, interiority provides us with the context we need to understand the situation, and it illuminates the inside life of our characters.
00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:54.720
And you don't have to tell the reader blatantly what the character is feeling.
00:11:54.879 --> 00:12:02.799
You can still convey the emotions you want to communicate effectively by choosing how to do so based on their thoughts and why.
00:12:03.120 --> 00:12:07.360
So when do you use interiority and how much is too much?
00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:15.120
And I'm not gonna lie, I laid it on pretty thick in those examples just to give you a really good indication of what I was driving at.
00:12:15.679 --> 00:12:19.039
But really how much to use, it's a challenging question.
00:12:19.279 --> 00:12:21.039
There's no hard and fast answer here.
00:12:21.120 --> 00:12:27.759
It depends on your character, their inner workings, the situations, and what you want the reader to feel and also your style.
00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:34.720
But one of the problems that I see many writers struggle with is that they leave out interiority altogether.
00:12:35.039 --> 00:12:42.559
Now, part of this is just the writer's curse of knowledge, meaning that you, as the writer, come to your story with a bias.
00:12:42.799 --> 00:12:46.480
You understand what's motivating your character and how they feel.
00:12:46.720 --> 00:12:54.879
And because of that, it's really easy to forget to put it on the page in a way that allows the reader to experience it.
00:12:55.200 --> 00:13:02.000
More often, writers are worried about telling versus showing when they include interiority.
00:13:02.240 --> 00:13:07.200
If they allow the reader to know what the character thinks and feels, and this is not the case.
00:13:07.519 --> 00:13:15.600
Not if it's done well, but if it's done in a way that lets the reader participate and make inferences.
00:13:15.919 --> 00:13:17.519
That is the key.
00:13:17.919 --> 00:13:28.960
So the solution, err on the side of caution and overdo the interiority for your character because you can always pull it out later if it's overkill.
00:13:29.200 --> 00:13:37.840
So every time something happens in the story that your character should react to, make them make them react on the page.
00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:44.000
Show the reader how it affects them by putting words to their thoughts, feelings, and reflections.
00:13:44.240 --> 00:13:48.559
Show us that they experience physical manifestations in their body.
00:13:48.879 --> 00:13:59.039
Doing so is going to provide your reader with the context they need to understand how the moment is affecting the character and make sense of what they want and what they will do next.
00:13:59.279 --> 00:14:03.519
Now, there are absolutely times when interiority is not necessary.
00:14:03.919 --> 00:14:16.639
And I love the example in Donald Moss's book, The Emotional Craft of Fiction, where he uses a scene from Matthew Quick's novel, The Silver Linings Playbook, to demonstrate when interiority isn't needed and why.
00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:25.360
So I'm going to share this scene with you in summary form, but the scene's told in the first person point of view by the main character who is Pat Peoples.
00:14:25.519 --> 00:14:34.960
Pat struggles with bipolar disorder, and in this scene, he is in a lobby waiting to see his new psychiatrist when a song plays on the loudspeaker.
00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:40.879
And that song triggers Pat into a very emotionally painful and violent outburst.
00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:46.480
But the author, Quick, only shows what the reader can visualize.
00:14:46.720 --> 00:14:49.519
We only see the action and some dialogue.
00:14:49.759 --> 00:14:59.519
Pat's kicking over the table, he's turning over chairs, he's screaming, and then later we have his mother soothing him and rubbing his back before Pat's ushered into the psychiatrist's office.
00:14:59.679 --> 00:15:04.799
There is not an ounce of interiority from Pat on the page in that passage.
00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:05.759
Why not?
00:15:06.240 --> 00:15:07.279
A couple of reasons.
00:15:07.519 --> 00:15:14.879
Number one, the reader didn't need it to experience how hard this was for Pat and how he felt.
00:15:15.039 --> 00:15:15.840
We got it.
00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:25.039
And the second is that Pat's inner life is so volatile, so erratic, that it might be chaos to describe.
00:15:25.440 --> 00:15:28.799
It's probably too chaotic even for the reader to make sense of.
00:15:28.960 --> 00:15:32.480
So the author chose to show the action instead.
00:15:33.039 --> 00:15:37.120
Nothing is lost due to the lack of interiority.
00:15:37.360 --> 00:15:39.360
Remember what I said earlier.
00:15:39.759 --> 00:15:42.559
Use enough to deliver the moment's meeting.
00:15:42.879 --> 00:15:45.840
Don't sacrifice words if it means letting go of vital context.
00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:51.600
We had the context in this situation, so it didn't add anything to go into Pat's thought.
00:15:51.840 --> 00:15:58.159
Okay, if you've not read The Emotional Craft on Fiction by Donald Moss, I highly, highly recommend it.
00:15:58.480 --> 00:16:03.840
So why interiority gives us so much mileage and makes novels unique?
00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:07.679
To me, interiority is the true playground of fiction.
00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:15.360
This is where we can have fun with juxtaposition and watch our protagonists misdirect other characters for their own gain.
00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:21.120
It allows us to deeply understand who our characters are and what they don't want anyone else to see.
00:16:21.279 --> 00:16:26.159
And this fact alone drives the beauty and uniqueness of narrative fiction.
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You can't get inside a character's head in a movie like you can in a novel.
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But here's a word of caution.
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I love interiority, and many writers, especially those who are particularly empathetic, love it too.
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We love to get into all the feels.
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And this means we also risk navel gazing.
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This is where your character is going to spend copious amounts of time in their head, and nothing else really happens.
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So remember, interiority has to play by the same rules as all the other elements of fiction.
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It needs to advance the plot or inform the reader of a new or deeper understanding of the character and their situation.
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But above all, it has to move the story forward.
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So here are some exercises that you can use to spot interiority in a work of fiction that you're reading and analyze how the author put it together.
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So pull out your pins and highlighters, find, you know, a couple passages from a novel that you love, note a point of view choice, and each time the narrator pulls back the curtain and lets you step directly into the character's mind and body.
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So then you want to ask, why did the author do that?
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Why is now the time to let you peek behind the curtain?
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How did it allow you to understand the situation?
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Did it provide the context to understand the moment?
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Did it show you how the character was affected?
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Does it inform what might happen next?
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Did it give you a deeper understanding of the character and did it help drive the narrative forward?
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Did the author tell you explicitly how the character felt, or did they show you instead and allow you to infer?
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Did they allow you to participate?
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How did you experience the scene as the reader?
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And what emotions did you register from a character?
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Did you experience any feelings different from what the character was experiencing?
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So the next step is to try to apply this to your own writing.
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So type up a passage or two from the text that you've selected, highlight all the interiority and name the emotions you noticed, then delete all the parts you highlighted.
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Read through it.
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How does it feel?
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Can you make sense of it?
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What did you lose by removing the interiority?
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Now do your own thing.
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Add in your version of interiority, play with it, change the situation, the context entirely, see what happens and have fun.
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So that was a lot.
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Let's break it down and do some takeaways.
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So for recap, interiority is where you're going to show the character's thoughts and emotions and reflections on the page to help inform the meaning of the moment and the context of the situation so that the reader can better understand the character and empathize with their experience and also anticipate what that character desires and what they want to happen next.
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Using interiority is not telling.
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It can be, but if done well, it is actually a piece of showing that will deepen your reader's understanding and create a more layered and contextual experience for them.
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One of the most common mistakes writers make is leaving out interiority altogether.
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So make sure to include it, overdo it, because you can always pull it back later.
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And how much you choose to use in the end is your choice, a stylistic choice that depends on the character you're writing.
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When you include interiority, make sure to do so in a way that deepens the reader's understanding of the character's experience and that it helps to move the narrative forward.
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So now, go practice, go play, go have fun.
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Remember, no words are wasted, even the practice ones, because honestly, it's all practice.
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Writing is a craft that we will never perfect.
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That's the beauty in it.
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There is always more to learn and different ways to do things.
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So the more you write, the more you will learn and the more you will want to.
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Thank you for tuning in today.
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If you have any questions, you can reach out to me in my email, Stacy at writitscared.co.
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And I will see you next week.
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Thank you for listening to the Ride It Scared podcast.
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If you enjoyed today's show, please make sure to hit the follow button so you never miss an episode.
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And please leave a review.
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Reviews help other writers like you find the voices and messages they need to hear to continue to write their stories.
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Let's lift each other up.
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Remember, you can be scared and still be unstoppable.
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I'll see you next week.
