Substack and Autopsies with JT Ellison

1
00:00:00,001 --> 00:00:01,440
I went to jail with Margaret Outwood.
2
00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:03,160
It was kind of fun, you know, and asking.
3
00:00:03,180 --> 00:00:06,140
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
4
00:00:07,030 --> 00:00:07,160
Stop.
5
00:00:07,670 --> 00:00:08,080
Get back.
6
00:00:08,740 --> 00:00:09,100
You said.
7
00:00:11,540 --> 00:00:14,880
Welcome to the Two Authors podcast, an entertaining chat
8
00:00:15,060 --> 00:00:17,600
show hosted by bestselling mystery and thriller
9
00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:20,100
authors Douglas Pratt and Nicholas Harvey
10
00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:23,820
in lively, humorous, and informative conversation
11
00:00:24,180 --> 00:00:26,840
with distinguished guests who share their thoughts
12
00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:30,100
an experience about forging a successful author career.
13
00:00:33,500 --> 00:00:36,260
Oh, welcome to this week's show brought to you as always by
14
00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:40,980
vellum the absolute most wonderful formatting solution in the
15
00:00:41,020 --> 00:00:45,620
whole world. The bestest. Bestest. The bestest of bestest was
16
00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:46,620
better than bestest.
17
00:00:46,940 --> 00:00:48,200
That below so that's what
18
00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:51,900
so weird.
19
00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:55,700
- No, vellum, though.
20
00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:56,440
You know what though?
21
00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:58,240
I've got to tell you, the other day I had an issue
22
00:00:58,380 --> 00:00:59,720
with vellum, not a really issue,
23
00:00:59,900 --> 00:01:01,660
'cause it was just me, it was a me issue,
24
00:01:02,020 --> 00:01:02,940
which is not a surprise.
25
00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:03,800
(laughing)
26
00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:06,860
- I think we all took it as being that way, don't worry.
27
00:01:06,960 --> 00:01:07,900
- Yeah, I know, worry, though.
28
00:01:07,980 --> 00:01:09,320
But I got on there, asked the question,
29
00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:11,640
you know, they had, I was like, ah, I'll take a break.
30
00:01:11,740 --> 00:01:14,140
And nope, those bastards got to act to me so fast,
31
00:01:14,260 --> 00:01:15,460
I didn't even have time to go pee.
32
00:01:15,940 --> 00:01:17,720
- That's the biggest problem with vellum.
33
00:01:17,820 --> 00:01:20,360
That is the problem we have with vellum.
34
00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:21,820
- I wanted to take a break.
35
00:01:21,980 --> 00:01:24,240
I was like, if I can't do anything,
36
00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:26,400
'cause I'm gonna stand still, then I can take a break.
37
00:01:26,540 --> 00:01:28,720
But no, they had to fix it right away, so.
38
00:01:28,960 --> 00:01:30,180
- Halfway through the end,
39
00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:31,920
down the road, back to the announcer.
40
00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:34,720
- It was ridiculous, but no, you got it.
41
00:01:34,980 --> 00:01:35,900
I love that about them.
42
00:01:35,960 --> 00:01:38,400
I just love the fact that it was, it's so fast.
43
00:01:38,580 --> 00:01:41,460
It was so quick, they came in, they did not come in
44
00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:44,240
and say, "You sure are a dumb fuck.
45
00:01:44,500 --> 00:01:45,620
"Why'd you do it this way?"
46
00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:47,380
They just came in, told me how to fix it.
47
00:01:47,500 --> 00:01:49,840
And I don't even remember, it was just, it was crazy.
48
00:01:50,180 --> 00:01:51,960
- It's classy of them to keep that chatter
49
00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:52,860
amongst themselves.
50
00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:54,760
Right, so that's the thing.
51
00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:01,720
I'm sure they're like, "You won't believe what this idiot tried to do."
52
00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:03,400
It's Doug again.
53
00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:08,200
They're like, "He's got his own line straight here.
54
00:02:08,420 --> 00:02:09,880
Why does he keep calling me?"
55
00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:11,660
You want to stress test yourself, man?
56
00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:13,480
Let Doug and Nick try it.
57
00:02:13,540 --> 00:02:14,420
Let me try it out.
58
00:02:14,460 --> 00:02:15,320
That for sure will do it.
59
00:02:15,500 --> 00:02:18,600
So, also, big thank you to all of our Patreon supporters.
60
00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:22,760
If you guys feel you are getting any value from the show, you enjoy listening to us.
61
00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:33,920
Yammer on you can support us over at patreon.com/thetooauthorspodcast and just like $3 a month you get to keep us fed and watered and
62
00:02:34,620 --> 00:02:41,900
Full of just energy and vitamins. It's all the good stuff that couple podcasters need so I feel like we're a couple of couple of the poor
63
00:02:42,740 --> 00:02:45,940
folks that are at the intersection of the roads with their tin
64
00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:54,540
couple of dollars sponsor us on Patreon, please.
65
00:02:54,820 --> 00:02:59,580
We need we need somebody to do a little background song like that sad song that Pita does for
66
00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:05,100
that has Sarah McLaughlin sings behind and you go, oh, those poor animals and this is
67
00:03:05,140 --> 00:03:06,300
just me and you. And that's it.
68
00:03:06,660 --> 00:03:08,840
Oh, we need to get the right.
69
00:03:09,860 --> 00:03:09,960
Right.
70
00:03:11,420 --> 00:03:11,820
Right.
71
00:03:11,920 --> 00:03:12,020
Right.
72
00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:16,300
That song and everybody just turned off this podcast. That was the quickest point.
73
00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,700
That was the fastest anybody's ever went. Not the you again.
74
00:03:21,739 --> 00:03:23,140
No, they're gonna sing.
75
00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:24,160
Stop them.
76
00:03:24,460 --> 00:03:27,860
All right, let's move back on track because we have a really great grass today.
77
00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:30,820
We have a New York Times best-selling author JT Allison.
78
00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:31,620
Woo!
79
00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:34,180
Yes, it's gonna be a fun talk.
80
00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:39,080
She's a local Tennessean, so she's not gonna chat about local stuff while you're over
81
00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:39,560
there in the...
82
00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:40,860
You're summer storms and heat.
83
00:03:40,980 --> 00:03:43,960
You're summer storms and you watch yourself in the humidity.
84
00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:45,280
Pretty much.
85
00:03:45,460 --> 00:03:46,780
Yeah, that's what we talk about.
86
00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:48,380
That's all we talk about around here.
87
00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:52,280
But before we get to talk to her, we have a listener guest from our recent guest.
88
00:03:52,540 --> 00:03:54,640
That'll be a listener question from our recent guest.
89
00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:56,780
A listener question from our recent guest.
90
00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:01,720
Yes, see, I mean, thankfully you're here to like pull me back out.
91
00:04:02,140 --> 00:04:04,900
We have a listener question from our recent guest, Tess Garrison.
92
00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:08,140
Tess Garrison, thank you so much.
93
00:04:08,300 --> 00:04:08,820
You're a glutton.
94
00:04:08,900 --> 00:04:13,680
You're sticking around for it to ask us a question which we're nervous and excited about.
95
00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:14,760
What have you got?
96
00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:20,400
I'm always curious about how writers handle writer's block and what is it?
97
00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:22,540
So you guys tell me what to do.
98
00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:29,560
I've never had writer's block where I just cannot think of a plot or can't think of
99
00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:30,060
a concept.
100
00:04:30,380 --> 00:04:35,880
I've had block in terms of if I've written myself into a corner or I'm not sure quite
101
00:04:36,020 --> 00:04:42,919
how to get from A to B and my best solution is always to exercise in some way, shape or
102
00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:45,720
go for a walk, get on a treadmill, do the elliptical.
103
00:04:46,100 --> 00:04:48,460
Normally I'll run off to the gym and get on the elliptical.
104
00:04:48,580 --> 00:04:51,280
And nine times out of 10, something about it
105
00:04:51,820 --> 00:04:54,040
is like a pallet cleanser, and I'm able to come away
106
00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:55,100
with it with an idea.
107
00:04:55,580 --> 00:04:56,240
That works for me.
108
00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:56,880
What about you, Doug?
109
00:04:57,100 --> 00:04:58,420
- Well, I'd say it's kind of something,
110
00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:00,520
I don't really have a lot of writer's block.
111
00:05:00,620 --> 00:05:02,440
A lot of what I consider writer's block
112
00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:03,560
is procrastination.
113
00:05:04,380 --> 00:05:04,700
(laughing)
114
00:05:05,900 --> 00:05:09,400
I mean, I am an Olympic level procrastinator.
115
00:05:10,020 --> 00:05:10,100
(laughing)
116
00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:11,920
I think that that's part,
117
00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:17,280
I do sometimes get the same problem where I'm like trying to work out a storyline and I'm trying to figure and so I do have a
118
00:05:17,410 --> 00:05:19,340
How do I get how I get my character out of this?
119
00:05:19,650 --> 00:05:22,480
You know I got put him in this situation should I thought about it before I did that?
120
00:05:22,590 --> 00:05:27,460
You know and so I'll often go for a drive or I have a lot of grass so we
121
00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:30,740
Will the tractor and track, you know, he smokes a lot of grass
122
00:05:34,919 --> 00:05:41,239
But when it gets like really they just I'm stuck and I'm like I need I don't feel like writing or I'm feeling
123
00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:44,520
procrastination, sometimes I just have to force myself to write the next word, even
124
00:05:44,540 --> 00:05:47,760
if it's a shitty word, you know, just try to write, oh, just write the next word.
125
00:05:47,980 --> 00:05:52,140
As long as you write one, one more word, even if it's really terrible, you know, I'm
126
00:05:52,140 --> 00:05:54,780
going to come back and I'm going to edit it out later on, but at least maybe I get
127
00:05:54,820 --> 00:05:59,320
my brain and my gears working, you know, and get myself out of that.
128
00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:01,360
Because I do like it, even though I procrastinate.
129
00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:01,880
It's just weird.
130
00:06:02,300 --> 00:06:03,440
Procrastinate things we love doing.
131
00:06:03,580 --> 00:06:04,340
I love writing.
132
00:06:04,900 --> 00:06:07,320
Sometimes I'm like, yeah, but it takes a little effort.
133
00:06:07,500 --> 00:06:09,400
I'm tired afterwards or something like that.
134
00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:10,840
What about you, Tess?
135
00:06:11,380 --> 00:06:14,000
Well, I get it with every book because I don't outline.
136
00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:16,760
And so I'm always just plunging in and seeing what happens.
137
00:06:16,850 --> 00:06:21,280
And the problem I have is like with Nick, because I write myself in a corner, I don't
138
00:06:21,280 --> 00:06:21,840
know how to get out.
139
00:06:21,840 --> 00:06:23,080
Oh, I don't know who the killer is.
140
00:06:23,180 --> 00:06:24,260
That's often what happens.
141
00:06:24,390 --> 00:06:24,520
Yeah.
142
00:06:25,099 --> 00:06:25,460
Yeah.
143
00:06:25,460 --> 00:06:27,960
It's like, okay, well, I have all these characters, which one did it?
144
00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:28,880
I don't know why.
145
00:06:29,490 --> 00:06:32,200
But yeah, I do the same thing that actually, I drive.
146
00:06:32,860 --> 00:06:36,840
I think that a long, boring drive is really good for writer's block.
147
00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:42,200
drive that you know very well or that just doesn't require your full attention because
148
00:06:42,340 --> 00:06:45,720
there's something about it that shifts your, you know, your mental energy.
149
00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:50,300
You're physically you're doing something, but you're relaxed and that's when your brain
150
00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:51,900
goes to work on creative things.
151
00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,340
And then nobody in the car with me or nobody talking.
152
00:06:55,620 --> 00:06:56,320
Nobody talking.
153
00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:57,140
Radio off.
154
00:06:57,400 --> 00:06:58,080
Radio off.
155
00:06:58,100 --> 00:06:58,180
Right.
156
00:06:58,180 --> 00:06:58,280
Radio off.
157
00:06:58,380 --> 00:07:00,300
I can get radio a little bit, no talking.
158
00:07:00,420 --> 00:07:02,060
Don't have a conversation when you're on a mom out of it.
159
00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:03,560
I need to be in my own zone.
160
00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:08,160
your relative open the door and go, "Hey, Tess, ride his block again."
161
00:07:12,180 --> 00:07:13,740
But you know that "aha" moment?
162
00:07:14,100 --> 00:07:16,360
You maybe you feel it when you finally get past that.
163
00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:17,300
It's wonderful.
164
00:07:17,540 --> 00:07:19,100
It's like, "Oh, that's what happened.
165
00:07:19,220 --> 00:07:20,240
That's how I did it."
166
00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:20,460
That's a great feeling.
167
00:07:20,460 --> 00:07:21,380
That's when I did it, yeah.
168
00:07:21,660 --> 00:07:23,160
Then you wish you took your laptop with you.
169
00:07:23,220 --> 00:07:25,760
It's like an hour and a half from home now and you've got to drive all the way back.
170
00:07:25,940 --> 00:07:26,140
All right.
171
00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:27,320
Brilliant question.
172
00:07:27,460 --> 00:07:30,080
Thank you so much and thanks for sticking around for the extras.
173
00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:30,900
Thank you.
174
00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:32,380
(upbeat music)
175
00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:37,720
- Welcome to the show, JT Ellis,
176
00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:39,420
and it's so great to have you here today.
177
00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:41,080
- Thank you for having me.
178
00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:42,120
It's nice to be here.
179
00:07:42,580 --> 00:07:44,240
- Yeah, it's nice to have another Tennessee in here
180
00:07:44,300 --> 00:07:45,020
in the house for me.
181
00:07:45,060 --> 00:07:45,440
- Absolutely.
182
00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:46,740
- Go Vols.
183
00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:47,780
- Yeah, absolutely.
184
00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:50,020
Listen to Nick talk about how he's in paradise.
185
00:07:50,860 --> 00:07:50,960
(laughing)
186
00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:51,380
- Whatever.
187
00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:53,360
- He's not in Tennessee, so.
188
00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:55,140
- Yeah, I'm not in the cool kids club.
189
00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:57,980
- No, you don't have an SEC team down there to root for.
190
00:07:58,360 --> 00:07:59,280
- No, he doesn't.
191
00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:00,400
- Go, Caimans!
192
00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:01,920
(laughing)
193
00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:05,640
- Hey, we have a really mediocre football team.
194
00:08:05,780 --> 00:08:06,120
- All right.
195
00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:08,080
- Yeah, but you got a great view to go with it,
196
00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:10,160
so you're like, "Oh, yeah, that's really terrible."
197
00:08:10,260 --> 00:08:11,660
Well, JT, let's just kind of get started,
198
00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:14,200
kind of tell us a little bit how you started
199
00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:15,340
into writing and publishing.
200
00:08:15,540 --> 00:08:18,220
What was this, a dream you always had,
201
00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:21,020
or is it something you just fell into later on in life?
202
00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:22,560
- A little bit of both.
203
00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:24,840
I always wrote when I was a kid.
204
00:08:24,980 --> 00:08:26,460
I wrote really bad poetry.
205
00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:28,120
I'm actually looking on my wall.
206
00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:32,780
I've got a poem that I wrote that won a contest when I was in third grade, you know, that
207
00:08:33,020 --> 00:08:38,479
kind of childish kind of aspirational short stories and poems and stuff.
208
00:08:38,979 --> 00:08:45,280
But I did go to school and I got a degree in political management and a degree in creative
209
00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:45,620
writing.
210
00:08:45,940 --> 00:08:50,280
And my creative writing thesis advisor said I wasn't good enough to get published and
211
00:08:50,340 --> 00:08:54,700
would not give me a referral for an MFA program that I wanted to go to.
212
00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:55,860
So I quit.
213
00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:57,440
And I went the other direction.
214
00:08:57,440 --> 00:08:59,200
I did the politics route and everything.
215
00:08:59,500 --> 00:09:04,660
So I met my husband first night of graduate school and he was from Nashville and to Nashville
216
00:09:04,820 --> 00:09:05,860
he wanted to return.
217
00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:10,860
So after we got married, he had a job with Gannett and moved back here to work for the
218
00:09:10,900 --> 00:09:14,680
Tennessean and I turned into a bad country music song.
219
00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:20,860
Our cat died right after we moved here three weeks and my 19 year old, Siamese, died.
220
00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:22,120
I kept getting lost.
221
00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:27,300
There's a road called Old Degree that's on all four sides of Nashville.
222
00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:30,960
And it's not the same road either.
223
00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:32,560
It's not the same road.
224
00:09:32,560 --> 00:09:33,460
Yes, you got to turn.
225
00:09:33,460 --> 00:09:34,140
They don't connect.
226
00:09:34,660 --> 00:09:35,680
It's really confusing.
227
00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:37,880
And I couldn't get a job.
228
00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:38,920
I didn't have any friends.
229
00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:41,780
And so I finally went to work for a vet.
230
00:09:42,100 --> 00:09:43,500
We adopted a new cat.
231
00:09:43,580 --> 00:09:44,320
The cat was sick.
232
00:09:44,380 --> 00:09:47,420
The vet healed her and he was looking for somebody and I thought, "All right.
233
00:09:47,820 --> 00:09:50,080
I've gotten a master's degree in political management.
234
00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:52,240
I should go mop floors at the vet."
235
00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:53,080
- I could be a vet assistant.
236
00:09:53,380 --> 00:09:54,700
- I could be a vet tech.
237
00:09:54,900 --> 00:09:55,660
This'll be great.
238
00:09:56,160 --> 00:10:00,100
And the first day I was like, yeah, no, this is not my path.
239
00:10:00,220 --> 00:10:01,560
And so I was gonna give him a whole week
240
00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:03,700
'cause that was only fair, but when the Wednesday,
241
00:10:04,300 --> 00:10:05,360
started on Monday on Wednesday,
242
00:10:05,420 --> 00:10:08,580
I picked up a golden retriever and herniated a disc in my back
243
00:10:09,260 --> 00:10:10,560
and had to have surgery.
244
00:10:11,020 --> 00:10:11,700
- You were on a roll.
245
00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:12,900
- I really was.
246
00:10:13,180 --> 00:10:14,720
I'd say a Bad Country Music song.
247
00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:18,820
And then I, during recovery, went to the library
248
00:10:19,180 --> 00:10:22,220
and they gave me a John Sanford book
249
00:10:22,220 --> 00:10:28,260
like crime fiction. I read the first three books in the praise series and went, "Oh my god, I really
250
00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:32,640
want to do this again. This is what I want to do." And I told my husband I'm going to write a book
251
00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:40,580
and he was like, "My god, do anything. I don't care. Whatever. Anything." You are so bored. Just
252
00:10:40,980 --> 00:10:48,139
sure have at it. And I wrote that first paragraph of that first book and I burst into tears because
253
00:10:48,140 --> 00:10:55,300
I was home. I was home. And that was in 2003. I wrote a book that I thought was a book. It
254
00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:59,840
was really a novella. And I mailed it all over New York to every editor. And I got a
255
00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:04,980
stack of rejections because I had no idea how the industry worked at all. I was such
256
00:11:05,140 --> 00:11:09,780
a noob. And then I fell in. I went to a book signing. John Connolly came to Nashville
257
00:11:10,020 --> 00:11:14,980
and I went and saw him. He was a huge fan. It was my first author I ever met. And there
258
00:11:14,980 --> 00:11:18,240
There was a woman there who had a critique group and she said, "Why aren't you ancestors
259
00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:18,880
in crime?"
260
00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:19,780
I'm like, "What is that?"
261
00:11:19,780 --> 00:11:22,040
And so it just started to build from there.
262
00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:27,600
By 2005, I had rewritten the novella into an actual novel and got an agent.
263
00:11:28,500 --> 00:11:32,800
And he took the book out and it got rejected by every house.
264
00:11:33,560 --> 00:11:34,820
And I got that voice, right?
265
00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:38,860
That voice from my thesis advisor, "You're not good enough to go out there."
266
00:11:39,580 --> 00:11:42,900
But my agent said, "No, write me another book."
267
00:11:42,900 --> 00:11:45,640
They all had the same complaint about the book, which was really interesting.
268
00:11:45,710 --> 00:11:46,760
He said, "Write me another book.
269
00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:48,700
Don't kill the main character at the end."
270
00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:51,140
Which is your franchise character.
271
00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:52,580
And so I did.
272
00:11:52,670 --> 00:11:55,200
I wrote, which is now called All the Pretty Girls.
273
00:11:55,780 --> 00:12:01,540
And it came out in 2007 and actually just re-released again last month, which is kind
274
00:12:01,540 --> 00:12:01,820
of fun.
275
00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:03,000
20 years.
276
00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:04,060
20 years in a month.
277
00:12:04,060 --> 00:12:04,580
20 years, wow.
278
00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:07,340
So, with it being re-released, I mean, is there some...
279
00:12:07,370 --> 00:12:08,620
Now, that's a huge deal.
280
00:12:08,820 --> 00:12:12,620
Like, is there some lessons that you look back on on that first one that you're now saying,
281
00:12:12,820 --> 00:12:15,700
Okay, I wish I'd done this differently then versus now.
282
00:12:15,780 --> 00:12:16,940
Or did you, or did you used to go,
283
00:12:17,060 --> 00:12:18,420
I'm not reading that book ever again?
284
00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:19,280
Cause that would be me.
285
00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:21,440
You like, do I have to read my own book again?
286
00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:26,060
- So I did, I did some edits on a couple of them
287
00:12:26,100 --> 00:12:30,040
because back in the day when we had women writing
288
00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:34,100
crime fiction, it was very divergir to use the F word
289
00:12:34,340 --> 00:12:37,400
like every other word because, you know,
290
00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:42,300
the wire was really big and it made us sound more masculine.
291
00:12:42,580 --> 00:12:49,360
into the editors. I literally, the second book 14, I took 14 or more f-bombs out when
292
00:12:49,420 --> 00:12:52,160
I did the edit on it because it just didn't need it, right?
293
00:12:52,220 --> 00:12:52,860
Yeah, right. Yeah.
294
00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:59,620
That was, so that was really the big change. But I got the rights back, which is really
295
00:12:59,700 --> 00:13:04,840
hard to do, but I've been carving the rights back to that series. And so I sold it again
296
00:13:05,060 --> 00:13:09,060
to my new publisher. And they're the ones that are bringing this all out and it's got
297
00:13:09,060 --> 00:13:15,400
new covers and it's just really fun getting a book that is 20 years old into the hands
298
00:13:15,500 --> 00:13:19,480
of new readers because all things old or new again right now.
299
00:13:19,620 --> 00:13:19,940
That's true.
300
00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:22,560
Serial killers are getting popular in fiction.
301
00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:24,020
Everything is so cyclical.
302
00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:27,780
It is really neat to see them getting new readers and having new life.
303
00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:28,540
Yeah.
304
00:13:28,740 --> 00:13:29,580
And it's interesting.
305
00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:31,560
Like you said, everything does kind of turn.
306
00:13:31,780 --> 00:13:35,120
So people who have these long careers are going to be like, "Well, I'm going to be back
307
00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:36,640
into serial killers again."
308
00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:37,060
Right.
309
00:13:37,620 --> 00:13:40,160
more long we'll be writing vampires again. So that'll be the whole.
310
00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:42,940
Oh, vampires are like an every five to seven year thing.
311
00:13:43,620 --> 00:13:44,640
Oh yeah. That's a cycle.
312
00:13:45,230 --> 00:13:48,660
Right? Serial killers, everything cycles in and out. So, you know, if you're in this
313
00:13:48,740 --> 00:13:52,560
long enough, you're right. You're gonna revisit your earlier work.
314
00:13:52,740 --> 00:13:57,180
That's right. So one of the things we really want to talk to you about is that you seem
315
00:13:57,340 --> 00:14:02,620
to like research a lot. Like from what we're reading, you've studied forensics, you've
316
00:14:02,620 --> 00:14:08,900
worked with the national PD. Somewhere you said you did some autopsies, which Nick said
317
00:14:08,940 --> 00:14:10,900
he didn't want any part of, but...
318
00:14:10,900 --> 00:14:13,140
I'd be like...
319
00:14:14,560 --> 00:14:14,960
Done.
320
00:14:15,500 --> 00:14:16,260
I'd be laying on the floor.
321
00:14:16,260 --> 00:14:19,960
I thought so too. I thought so too. That was the most wild experience. It was the most
322
00:14:20,180 --> 00:14:24,480
spiritual experience in my life, which you wouldn't think, you know, seeing people cut
323
00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:29,160
open would be spiritual, but it is. Once you realize that we are all the exact same inside,
324
00:14:30,020 --> 00:14:32,100
There is something that makes us who we are.
325
00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:35,040
There is a spirit, there is a soul, there is something.
326
00:14:35,839 --> 00:14:39,940
And that I discovered that day really was fascinating.
327
00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:43,760
But I too, I was like, I'm going to pass out or throw up or both.
328
00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:44,980
And they said, no, you're not.
329
00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:46,180
You're going to be fine.
330
00:14:46,420 --> 00:14:47,480
And I'm like, no, I'm not kidding.
331
00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:52,480
They're like, well, if you feel faint or, you know, step away, just step back.
332
00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:55,660
And I started, you know, I started the day about 15 feet away.
333
00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:56,280
Yeah.
334
00:14:56,460 --> 00:14:59,740
And by the end, I literally was had my head in a head.
335
00:14:59,900 --> 00:15:06,440
in a chest cavity. So it is fascinating. And I was pre-med for a while until I found out about
336
00:15:06,460 --> 00:15:10,680
the whole cadaver thing. And I was like, yeah, no, I'm not doing that. So I resisted. I resisted
337
00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:15,360
doing the the autopsies for a very long time, but I was writing a medical examiner. And I was
338
00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:21,340
getting things wrong, because I hadn't been there. And it changed everything. I mean, the research,
339
00:15:22,020 --> 00:15:26,360
all the research I've done has changed the course of the books in an effortable way.
340
00:15:26,620 --> 00:15:31,560
when I first started, the sum total I knew about being a cop is what I'd seen on law and order.
341
00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:38,080
Yeah. Right? So I call my local homicide office and I said, "Hey, has Nashville ever had a serial
342
00:15:38,220 --> 00:15:41,560
killer?" And they're like, "Why don't you come do a ride along?" Because I think they wanted to make
343
00:15:41,700 --> 00:15:47,320
sure I wasn't like really auditioning for the job. Are you a serial killer?
344
00:15:50,460 --> 00:15:55,100
You're a little too enthusiastic about this. We'll tell you about it, but first we just
345
00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:57,820
- Of course. - Have you ever killed anybody?
346
00:15:57,820 --> 00:16:01,200
- Can you finger print it and get your DNA on file?
347
00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:01,520
Yeah.
348
00:16:02,140 --> 00:16:03,420
- Just in case, yeah.
349
00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:04,220
- Just in case.
350
00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:06,340
They ended up, the homicide detective
351
00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:08,200
who answered the phone is a writer.
352
00:16:08,740 --> 00:16:12,020
And so he was actually very interested in my process
353
00:16:12,060 --> 00:16:12,860
and what I was doing.
354
00:16:13,300 --> 00:16:15,240
So we kind of traded trade secrets.
355
00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,540
And I ended up doing eight ride-alongs with homicide.
356
00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:19,640
I did overnight patrol.
357
00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,780
My first overnight patrol, we got called out to a stabbing.
358
00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,080
we were still getting our evening briefing
359
00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:28,560
and we got called to a stabbing and I'm like,
360
00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:29,280
"What do I do?"
361
00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:31,200
And he was like, "Just stay on my six."
362
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:33,940
And he got out of the car and I ran out of the car behind him
363
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:35,860
and there's this guy there and he is dying.
364
00:16:36,180 --> 00:16:38,720
And it was, we caught the guy who did it.
365
00:16:38,820 --> 00:16:40,900
We got the knife, we did the chain of custody,
366
00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:41,780
all this.
367
00:16:42,340 --> 00:16:45,120
And then we went for hot chicken at three in the morning.
368
00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:46,040
(laughing)
369
00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:47,320
As you apparently do.
370
00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:47,940
- But you can move.
371
00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:49,680
And natural, yeah, that's what we got.
372
00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:49,860
- As you do.
373
00:16:50,100 --> 00:16:52,600
And you know, I'm looking down at my cowboy boots
374
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,040
and I've got this guy's blood on my shoes.
375
00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:55,940
- Nice.
376
00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:58,820
- And it got really real after that.
377
00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:00,980
I changed the tenor of my work.
378
00:17:00,980 --> 00:17:04,199
I wanted to be sure that I was honoring the spirit
379
00:17:04,209 --> 00:17:05,300
of what the police were doing
380
00:17:05,660 --> 00:17:08,140
and the horrors that they were dealing with
381
00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:09,120
on a daily basis.
382
00:17:09,260 --> 00:17:12,600
I mean, our police forces have their problems,
383
00:17:12,939 --> 00:17:16,339
but what they do and how they do it
384
00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:19,160
is for the most part remarkable.
385
00:17:19,839 --> 00:17:21,300
And I wanted to honor that
386
00:17:21,300 --> 00:17:26,020
And there's nothing better than when I get somebody who is an expert in any of the books
387
00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,940
of something that I've written, writing me and saying, "You nailed it."
388
00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:30,340
That makes my day.
389
00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:31,280
That's why I do it.
390
00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:32,460
There's quick questions.
391
00:17:32,580 --> 00:17:37,840
I found this in one of my books, "Police Procedural," and I've kind of taken what is a small town
392
00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:38,460
police department.
393
00:17:38,660 --> 00:17:41,220
I had to shrink it down a little bit just for character size.
394
00:17:41,500 --> 00:17:42,940
I mean, do you find the same instance?
395
00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:47,740
Like, you know, anytime you watch any TV show like Law and Order, Castle, whatever, their
396
00:17:47,740 --> 00:17:50,600
little police units are very small and that's not really the way it is.
397
00:17:50,780 --> 00:17:54,720
So, I mean, if you find that you're doing the same thing, you're like, "Oh, okay.
398
00:17:54,960 --> 00:18:00,600
This is a much bigger thing than I can actually portray on page, so I've got to find a way
399
00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:02,160
to funnel it into the page."
400
00:18:02,260 --> 00:18:02,700
Absolutely.
401
00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:05,080
And the way I did it actually was modeling.
402
00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:10,580
We had a cold case unit and it was a small group of a few detectives.
403
00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:13,780
And so I modeled my group on them.
404
00:18:14,540 --> 00:18:20,180
And that helps the interpersonal relationships, but there's also so much that goes on just
405
00:18:20,360 --> 00:18:22,880
with bosses and the regulations.
406
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:26,920
And you have to be in uniform this weekend and be downtown.
407
00:18:27,820 --> 00:18:30,900
Just all the little peccadillas that go along with being a cop.
408
00:18:31,300 --> 00:18:31,700
But you do.
409
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:33,260
You have to shrink it down.
410
00:18:33,300 --> 00:18:34,980
You have to make it into bite-size greetings.
411
00:18:35,580 --> 00:18:40,920
- Make it, keep it interesting, because the bureaucracy would bore most of the people.
412
00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:44,000
- We wouldn't, yeah, we would never be able to get away with it, right?
413
00:18:44,340 --> 00:18:47,380
You know, they saw how much paperwork is involved.
414
00:18:47,660 --> 00:18:50,820
I mean, we have all these great car chases and foot chases
415
00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,420
and they're out detecting, no, 99% of the time
416
00:18:53,420 --> 00:18:55,740
they're sitting at their desk typing up a form.
417
00:18:55,900 --> 00:18:58,280
- Yeah, and the DNA can come back in like 24 hours
418
00:18:58,460 --> 00:18:59,500
whereas normally it's, you know,
419
00:18:59,580 --> 00:19:01,780
it's really gonna be like nowadays, yeah.
420
00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:02,880
- Now it can.
421
00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:05,240
That's the big problem now for me
422
00:19:05,340 --> 00:19:07,040
with the police procedural.
423
00:19:07,120 --> 00:19:09,820
So I basically have to go and relearn everything
424
00:19:09,940 --> 00:19:11,640
because it's changed so dramatically.
425
00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:14,320
- But so much of the, that's the one thing
426
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:18,160
with TV and books, you can't do the time,
427
00:19:18,360 --> 00:19:19,980
the realistic time frames on some of it.
428
00:19:20,020 --> 00:19:21,240
I mean, DNA is back quicker now,
429
00:19:21,300 --> 00:19:23,460
but most of the forensic evidence that gets studied,
430
00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:26,260
it's back listed, it's months, and you can't,
431
00:19:26,900 --> 00:19:29,240
the book doesn't work on a timeline like that, right?
432
00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:30,760
You can't just have these long pauses
433
00:19:30,830 --> 00:19:31,660
where they go back to it.
434
00:19:32,060 --> 00:19:35,040
You know, they typically solve cases very quickly,
435
00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,300
meaning the guys like the one you ride along.
436
00:19:38,570 --> 00:19:38,680
- Please hold there.
437
00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:40,040
- The guy holding the knife.
438
00:19:40,220 --> 00:19:43,840
- The guy's literally there, or it's gonna be months.
439
00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:50,480
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it's a slog and there's no yeah, there's no good accurate representation of what it really is
440
00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:53,780
My big problem. I will confess this to you
441
00:19:54,100 --> 00:19:59,100
I got so used to being able to compress the time frame for the thrillers that now that I'm writing standalone
442
00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:02,740
I can't move the story past a few days or a week
443
00:20:03,540 --> 00:20:10,100
Everything does happen so fast and in a standalone. It's a completely different pace, right? That's my biggest challenge
444
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:12,440
Good problem to have I guess
445
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,980
I cannot make time pass. It is so hard to make time pass.
446
00:20:17,620 --> 00:20:19,640
That's what people say when they read my books. They're like, "Oh."
447
00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:24,600
A quick word from this episode's sponsor.
448
00:20:25,180 --> 00:20:30,540
Elizabeth Hunter, 11-time USA Today bestseller, 50-plus books, 3 million sold,
449
00:20:31,120 --> 00:20:33,360
brings a hands-on craft class to authentication.
450
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:37,460
How the power is your character's wheel reveal who they really are.
451
00:20:37,860 --> 00:20:40,800
Character, world, and magic that lie to no one.
452
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:44,460
Get your ticket at author nation dot live now back to the show
453
00:20:45,420 --> 00:20:51,940
Let's talk about your sub stack. So you have the creative edge and you've got a bunch of resources in there for writers
454
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:54,940
We'll put a link in the in the show notes so people can find it over there
455
00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:56,720
So tell us a little bit about it
456
00:20:56,780 --> 00:21:04,380
Why you chose sub stack as the as the place to house this and what people butting right writers can expect to find there and
457
00:21:05,300 --> 00:21:07,700
I got to know about this brave venture you had of
458
00:21:08,460 --> 00:21:13,660
writing a live novel, you wrote it live on your sub-stack, you're crazy. Tell us about it.
459
00:21:13,940 --> 00:21:19,340
I am. I am crazy. So that's why I ended up at sub-stack because I like it when things are
460
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:24,200
pretty. I've known how to code for a long time, so I've always built my own websites and had a
461
00:21:24,220 --> 00:21:29,160
blog and all of that. I used to be the Friday blogger in a group blog called Murderati many,
462
00:21:29,180 --> 00:21:35,740
many years ago. And I got in that habit of writing a Friday blog. I find that writing about writing
463
00:21:35,740 --> 00:21:41,340
helps me write. It's just part of my process. If I can kind of deconstruct what I'm doing
464
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:47,320
whilst doing it, it helps a lot. So I decided, you know, if I'm going to do Substack, it's
465
00:21:47,340 --> 00:21:51,280
got to be value added, right? I certainly wasn't planning to charge for it. But then
466
00:21:51,340 --> 00:21:56,180
I decided, well, heck, you know, I might as well write a writing book and people can,
467
00:21:56,480 --> 00:22:01,900
you know, that can be my subscription. And so I live wrote the process of writing my
468
00:22:01,900 --> 00:22:08,140
book last seen, which was last year's novel, it took almost 18 months of going through.
469
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:13,320
I realized as I was just kind of setting it up, there were 22 steps in the process of
470
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:14,060
writing a book.
471
00:22:14,660 --> 00:22:18,280
And so I kind of laid those out and here's what I'm going to cover and I did.
472
00:22:18,410 --> 00:22:23,740
And I went through the 22 steps of writing a book and the seven sub steps and this thing
473
00:22:23,820 --> 00:22:24,740
over here and that thing over there.
474
00:22:25,140 --> 00:22:28,720
But I had to learn how to outline and to write about outlining.
475
00:22:28,860 --> 00:22:35,260
I had to learn how to explain my process and my thinking process, which I'm an organic
476
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:36,900
gardener of a writer.
477
00:22:37,660 --> 00:22:38,940
There's got gardeners and architects.
478
00:22:39,660 --> 00:22:40,460
I am a gardener.
479
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:46,480
I till my soil and I put my seeds down and I fertilize in water and we see what happens,
480
00:22:46,740 --> 00:22:47,980
what comes up and what doesn't.
481
00:22:47,980 --> 00:22:52,660
And that's what I work with versus an architect who is going to build that blueprint before
482
00:22:52,780 --> 00:22:55,300
you even, you can't build a house without the blueprint.
483
00:22:55,780 --> 00:22:57,060
I'm currently writing a book.
484
00:22:57,940 --> 00:23:03,520
My analogy of the book I am currently writing is I am flying the plane as I am still building
485
00:23:03,570 --> 00:23:04,580
the air lawns.
486
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:06,320
There you go.
487
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:10,480
Yeah, it's, you know, in danger of crashing and burning every second.
488
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,200
We've all been there at some point, I'm sure.
489
00:23:13,290 --> 00:23:14,660
Yeah, so, well.
490
00:23:14,660 --> 00:23:22,620
The last scene was, it was very fun to just really bring people into the thought process,
491
00:23:22,950 --> 00:23:24,560
the actual thought process.
492
00:23:24,780 --> 00:23:27,020
This is how I came up with this idea.
493
00:23:27,500 --> 00:23:29,460
This is why I made the choice that I made.
494
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:31,700
This is the problem that I'm having.
495
00:23:31,940 --> 00:23:34,100
I have to change the character's names.
496
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:35,960
I have to change the character's age.
497
00:23:36,030 --> 00:23:40,340
I got to age them up 10 years because a 24-year-old is a boring character.
498
00:23:40,830 --> 00:23:44,840
A 34-year-old has had some life experience and is going to be more fun.
499
00:23:45,190 --> 00:23:50,380
And I've literally detailed every step of that for 18 months.
500
00:23:51,130 --> 00:23:52,480
It is a complete series.
501
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,960
I'm putting it together as a book and I will put it up eventually.
502
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:57,180
- Sure, that's brilliant, yeah.
503
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:01,200
- Yeah, it was really, really a great experience.
504
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:05,840
And I miss actually not having those touchstones of,
505
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:07,940
"Okay, here's the step that I'm at,"
506
00:24:08,020 --> 00:24:10,000
and being able to explain it to myself
507
00:24:10,420 --> 00:24:11,720
as much as to somebody else.
508
00:24:12,060 --> 00:24:12,460
- Right, right.
509
00:24:12,460 --> 00:24:15,660
- And I also have my monthly newsletter there on Substack,
510
00:24:15,780 --> 00:24:17,440
and I've had that newsletter for 20 years.
511
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:19,040
- It's interesting what you say about,
512
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:21,100
'cause teaching, I've done some teaching
513
00:24:21,220 --> 00:24:22,680
of something completely different in the past,
514
00:24:22,780 --> 00:24:24,280
and when you're teaching,
515
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:29,420
You have to think through that process and you think how you have to communicate it to somebody else and get that point across
516
00:24:29,900 --> 00:24:34,800
It really does affect the way you do that the same thing yourself. It's a great learning process, right?
517
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:40,620
Yes, because I'm not a teacher. I was like nothing like learning that you've been doing something wrong even though it's working
518
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:44,680
Like there's like well, we all do things that are not the correct way of doing it
519
00:24:44,740 --> 00:24:50,679
But it works so when you teach it you got to learn how to do the proper way of doing it and then you start if you're smart
520
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,920
I'm not always smart, but if you're smart you might pick up on what you're teaching and actually do it
521
00:24:55,940 --> 00:25:00,160
I've gone back and reminded myself, you know, hey, you're at this step
522
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:04,060
What do I normally do at this step and I'm able now I've got a record of it
523
00:25:04,100 --> 00:25:08,240
I can go back and say oh, hey, why don't you try this you can take your own class
524
00:25:12,360 --> 00:25:19,120
It's gonna be called many ways up the mountain because I think that was the theme of the whole thing is there is no right way to do this
525
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:24,180
There's only what works for you and gets you to the finish line. Yeah, we're big about the whole your mileage may vary
526
00:25:24,610 --> 00:25:30,000
Idea like it could vary every advice got a different way to go as long as you're going I guess that's about it
527
00:25:30,140 --> 00:25:33,980
So yeah, I think if somebody is telling you you have to do it like this run
528
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:41,540
Big figure at flag every time if they're like this is this is how you must make you always tell me that and I knew I should have run
529
00:25:41,820 --> 00:25:45,800
No, it's not you must do it this way. You must not do it that way
530
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:49,460
You and my wife
531
00:25:55,460 --> 00:25:59,100
The book that Doug and I are gonna write don't do these things don't do
532
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,660
Want to know what to do go see someone like JT Allison
533
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:14,220
So let's talk about you have so a very bad thing and you know why you both are polished with those with Thomas and Mercer, correct
534
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,600
Mm-hmm and lessen. Yep. Oh, okay
535
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:22,620
Yeah. So you've launched a very bad thing, launched in 2024. Tell us about the business
536
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,660
decision because that's kind of an important thing for writers to remember this as a business.
537
00:26:27,190 --> 00:26:32,360
What the business decision of going with an Amazon-owned Thomas and Mercer and how that
538
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,320
experience differs from working with one of the more traditional publishers?
539
00:26:36,020 --> 00:26:46,580
It's really funny. So my old publicist at Harper Collins got promoted this morning. I
540
00:26:46,580 --> 00:26:49,160
related them and he was like, "I hope they're treating you well."
541
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:54,700
And like, "Yeah, this is a whole different world over here on the Amazon side of the
542
00:26:55,420 --> 00:26:55,860
fence."
543
00:26:55,860 --> 00:26:59,240
And then when I wrote back, I'm like, "It is so different, but it is the same.
544
00:26:59,660 --> 00:27:00,660
It's publishing, right?
545
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:01,660
Publishing is publishing.
546
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:06,940
You're trying to get your story into the hands of readers and the publisher is the mechanism
547
00:27:07,260 --> 00:27:11,740
for which that happens, whether you're doing it yourself or doing it through Amazon or
548
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:12,740
if you're at a big five.
549
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,040
I've written for everybody but has shut.
550
00:27:15,700 --> 00:27:18,200
It's the only house that I haven't been published by at this point.
551
00:27:18,500 --> 00:27:20,040
Well, they need to get their gear in order.
552
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:20,660
Yeah, right.
553
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:21,280
Come on.
554
00:27:21,580 --> 00:27:22,160
Come on.
555
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:24,220
Shake it loose.
556
00:27:25,260 --> 00:27:26,240
Shake a leg here.
557
00:27:27,919 --> 00:27:29,500
And all of them are different.
558
00:27:30,340 --> 00:27:36,740
It's a grasses greener kind of scenario, but the problem is the grass tastes the same,
559
00:27:37,500 --> 00:27:37,640
right?
560
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:41,580
The grass is greener wherever you aren't, and it tastes exactly the same.
561
00:27:41,860 --> 00:27:47,800
So all you can do as an author is write the best damn book you possibly can, write the
562
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:51,460
book they can't ignore, and then you'll get the readers.
563
00:27:51,570 --> 00:27:53,100
And it doesn't matter what the publisher is.
564
00:27:53,580 --> 00:27:57,400
Moving from Harper to Amazon, it was a big decision.
565
00:27:57,550 --> 00:27:59,140
I mean, it was a really, really big decision.
566
00:27:59,420 --> 00:28:02,740
And not one that I took lightly, and it was one that we had discussed for years.
567
00:28:03,380 --> 00:28:11,160
Amazon does an incredible job of pulling the levers with a whole new audience of readers
568
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:17,180
who are rabid and they can read a book a day and they want a book a day and they just,
569
00:28:17,590 --> 00:28:19,220
they will do anything for it, right?
570
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:26,000
And to have the kind of hybrid that I have my relationship coming from being a big five
571
00:28:26,140 --> 00:28:30,940
author, being in the stores, being in Barnes, being in the Indies, you know, getting all
572
00:28:30,980 --> 00:28:38,020
the usual stuff, merging with this digital first, I'm still coming out in hardcover and
573
00:28:38,020 --> 00:28:39,380
I'm still selling a lot of hard covers.
574
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:45,560
So I'm kind of hybrid in that scenario where other authors might not be because I was so
575
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:47,240
established before I moved over.
576
00:28:47,590 --> 00:28:49,740
But they're incredibly professional.
577
00:28:50,500 --> 00:28:56,680
The schedules are absolutely sacrosanct, which for somebody like me who is performance
578
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,700
driven and likes deadlines is wonderful, right?
579
00:29:00,100 --> 00:29:01,860
There's a little more structure to it.
580
00:29:01,990 --> 00:29:04,180
And I'm a structural kind of writer.
581
00:29:04,270 --> 00:29:05,640
I like those kinds of things.
582
00:29:05,850 --> 00:29:07,020
And they do beautiful work.
583
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,300
I mean, I know the readers can't see it.
584
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:11,360
Oh, no, yeah.
585
00:29:11,700 --> 00:29:15,240
You know, here's the spectacular book.
586
00:29:15,740 --> 00:29:16,120
Oh, yeah.
587
00:29:16,300 --> 00:29:20,460
You know, the case art and just all of this stuff, they just do really nice work.
588
00:29:20,860 --> 00:29:21,580
And I love my editor.
589
00:29:21,980 --> 00:29:22,960
She's super smart.
590
00:29:23,180 --> 00:29:24,200
She makes my books better.
591
00:29:24,580 --> 00:29:27,500
And that to me is 90% of it, you know?
592
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:31,920
And then I just want to get the book into the reader's hands, a price that they're comfortable
593
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:33,880
paying and sell a lot of them.
594
00:29:33,980 --> 00:29:34,180
Yeah.
595
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,660
a challenge sometimes right now getting the price that people want to pay.
596
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:43,920
Well, you know, pricing is interesting, but it's also just this, this, the abundance and
597
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:49,240
the paradox of choice. These poor readers are being inundated, right left and center
598
00:29:49,340 --> 00:29:55,260
with thousands and thousands and thousands of choices. So being, you know, being their
599
00:29:55,300 --> 00:30:01,960
favorite author, that is a responsibility I take very seriously. And I try very hard
600
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,740
to give them the best possible book and experience that I can't.
601
00:30:05,770 --> 00:30:08,560
And, you know, that's, you know, so far so good.
602
00:30:08,940 --> 00:30:10,520
And those are the ones that are going to buy your book today.
603
00:30:10,550 --> 00:30:14,040
It comes out and make you, they always email me.
604
00:30:14,060 --> 00:30:14,700
Yeah, love them.
605
00:30:14,860 --> 00:30:15,660
Yes, love them.
606
00:30:16,180 --> 00:30:17,620
They're keeping the cat in treats.
607
00:30:18,100 --> 00:30:18,680
So that's why.
608
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:21,280
That's cool.
609
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:26,060
So you know why it comes out as we talked about on August the 25th?
610
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:30,660
So which is today as we're talking to, if you're listening to the day that the show
611
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:30,920
dropped.
612
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:36,500
on the release of your new book because we can talk in the future. So without giving too much away,
613
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:38,560
tell the listeners a little bit about it. What's the story?
614
00:30:39,060 --> 00:30:43,560
So this is a two prong story. It is about a woman named Brooklyn Locke whose husband
615
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:49,240
surprises her with a trip to Italy and disappears from their connecting flight.
616
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:56,160
And the other side of the story is a woman who sees her sister's murderer from 10 years earlier
617
00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:04,360
on a flight and then he disappears. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Okay. So we have to figure out who this guy is
618
00:31:04,540 --> 00:31:11,540
and why he has disappeared and the two women work together to figure this out in some ways. And in
619
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:16,800
some ways, they have all kinds of problems. As you would imagine. I can imagine. Great premise.
620
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:21,460
That's a really good premise. Yeah, that's, that's brilliant. So yeah. So I mean, what, so what was
621
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,520
like one of the, as you're writing this, did you have any of those moments like, and I always love
622
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,620
hearing what authors say when they come across that moment in their book they're like, "Ooh,
623
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:34,160
I've got it." And especially as a organic gardening writer, you're writing along trying
624
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:38,520
to figure it out. It's kind of like, we both are kind of like in that same realm, but you write
625
00:31:38,580 --> 00:31:42,860
along and something like, "Oh, this is brilliant. Did you have one of those like really just rewarding
626
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:47,440
moments as you're writing, you know why?" Yes. And that was figuring out why you left.
627
00:31:49,700 --> 00:31:55,500
I didn't know. I just knew the premise, right? I just knew the premise. I had seen a couple
628
00:31:55,500 --> 00:31:59,080
fight on a plane having a fight and I was really upset with them because they're
629
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:03,480
his gorgeous beautiful couple and they're two kids and they're just sniping
630
00:32:03,580 --> 00:32:06,820
they were coming home from the islands actually and they're sniping at each
631
00:32:06,860 --> 00:32:10,500
other and I'm like come on you know you got this great life you just left a
632
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,120
ruga your tan why are you bitching each other?
633
00:32:14,260 --> 00:32:20,180
Yeah quit complaining and then I have always had this idea in my mind watching
634
00:32:20,340 --> 00:32:23,940
people in the airport you know the guy that says hey I'm gonna go get a water
635
00:32:23,940 --> 00:32:29,480
and then never comes back. It's just into marrying those two stories. And so I pitched
636
00:32:29,610 --> 00:32:33,800
it to my editor and she was like, "That, write that next. That's, yes, and that's as far
637
00:32:33,860 --> 00:32:39,020
as we got." I had to figure out why he would leave. Why would he leave those kids? Why would
638
00:32:39,140 --> 00:32:44,400
he walk away from this family? Why would he surprise them with this trip to Italy and
639
00:32:44,500 --> 00:32:45,720
suddenly disappear?
640
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:46,540
It's disappear, yeah.
641
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:53,920
You know, what would make you as a father walk away from your family? It had to be something
642
00:32:53,920 --> 00:33:01,220
pretty bad, right? And it took me forever to figure out what it was and why he did it.
643
00:33:01,580 --> 00:33:04,560
But when I did, then everything came together, right?
644
00:33:04,900 --> 00:33:06,720
Right. And it was a cat, right? It was a cat?
645
00:33:07,020 --> 00:33:12,440
It was a cat. He saw a cat and he followed her out of the airport and he adopted her
646
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:16,720
and brought her home and happily ever after, everybody's back.
647
00:33:16,940 --> 00:33:22,060
That's exactly how I lose my wife is assuming a random dog comes by, she's going to walk
648
00:33:22,060 --> 00:33:28,260
often follow it. I want to look around and where'd she go. I can't do not. We're in England.
649
00:33:28,390 --> 00:33:32,780
We just got back from England and we were in Canterbury. I come by with this big beautiful
650
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,080
German shepherd and actually turned around and started following the dog. I was like,
651
00:33:35,180 --> 00:33:35,740
"Where are you going?"
652
00:33:35,740 --> 00:33:42,660
There she goes. That's me with the cats. Cats find me on trips and stuff. I'm like, "Oh,
653
00:33:43,060 --> 00:33:47,000
you go to Greece and all of them look. It's a cat." No, you're supposed to be looking at
654
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:47,920
the Parthenon. Come on.
655
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:52,100
Also, I do love that like you're on the airplane and you're thinking, "Huh, like these people
656
00:33:52,110 --> 00:33:52,540
are arguing.
657
00:33:52,740 --> 00:33:54,140
They could kill each other."
658
00:33:55,700 --> 00:33:58,860
That's the way we thrill our writers who are always like, "Hmm, I don't know how we
659
00:33:58,860 --> 00:33:59,840
can make this work."
660
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:00,400
Oh, it's an argument.
661
00:34:00,740 --> 00:34:01,420
What could be worse?
662
00:34:02,420 --> 00:34:03,740
Why are you fighting?
663
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:05,300
Why are you've got everything?
664
00:34:05,740 --> 00:34:06,500
Why are you fighting?
665
00:34:06,580 --> 00:34:11,440
I mean, that's what we as crime fiction writers and suspense and all of that, that's what
666
00:34:11,500 --> 00:34:12,040
we're doing, right?
667
00:34:12,260 --> 00:34:14,679
We're looking behind somebody's closed door.
668
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:19,399
curious and we're trying to open the door to their house and find out what is really
669
00:34:19,500 --> 00:34:20,020
going on.
670
00:34:20,419 --> 00:34:23,600
And that's, you know, that drives all of my books, being a nosy neighbor.
671
00:34:27,139 --> 00:34:29,100
And now we're here from this episode's sponsor.
672
00:34:29,460 --> 00:34:33,560
Hey, it's Jamie Davis, show manager for the Author Nation conference that's coming up
673
00:34:33,639 --> 00:34:34,820
here before we know it.
674
00:34:35,139 --> 00:34:37,360
I know we're going to get to see each other there.
675
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:42,020
Definitely come up and say hello to get your daily dad joke when you're in Vegas.
676
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,480
And with that in mind, what happens when you give a book a camera?
677
00:34:47,020 --> 00:34:49,379
Well it'll definitely take a shelfie.
678
00:34:49,659 --> 00:34:50,520
And back to the show.
679
00:34:51,379 --> 00:34:53,500
People are always asking, "Where do you get your stories from?
680
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:54,820
Where do you get your ideas from?"
681
00:34:54,919 --> 00:34:56,179
Every day, all day long.
682
00:34:56,440 --> 00:35:01,240
I mean, it's just a comment here, a movement there, an action there.
683
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:03,680
Someone reacts to something in a certain way.
684
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:05,360
You just register that, right?
685
00:35:05,420 --> 00:35:05,980
You carry it.
686
00:35:06,180 --> 00:35:06,660
Absolutely.
687
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:08,900
Yeah, there's no turning it off.
688
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:10,300
There's no turning it off.
689
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:11,980
As soon as you see it, you're like, "Oh, that's f-"
690
00:35:12,180 --> 00:35:14,060
We were just talking about it with Lisa Gardner when we said, like,
691
00:35:14,260 --> 00:35:17,140
"Yeah, I sometimes I'll be watching it and it's like somebody does some crime."
692
00:35:17,140 --> 00:35:19,460
And I'm like, "Oh, that's horrible, but how did he get away with it?"
693
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:20,320
You know? Or, you know?
694
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:20,860
Yeah.
695
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:25,020
Or, "Oh, I hope they don't catch him yet, because then it's more interesting.
696
00:35:25,110 --> 00:35:28,200
I don't want anybody to die, but at the same time, my story-driven part of me is like,
697
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:29,820
"Ooh, what's gonna happen now?"
698
00:35:29,820 --> 00:35:32,160
So, when you were talking about doing the ride along with the police,
699
00:35:32,300 --> 00:35:34,920
I was thinking at the time, I was like, "The question you want to ask is,
700
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:36,300
now how did they get away with that?"
701
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:37,260
And the question came back.
702
00:35:37,580 --> 00:35:40,420
I'm from a
703
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:45,440
Right. Like, oh, I know like 90 different ways to murder and dispose of my husband.
704
00:35:45,860 --> 00:35:49,480
And you know, my husband always says, if I go missing, you know.
705
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:52,020
You're gonna be in the first place.
706
00:35:52,580 --> 00:35:54,860
Everybody's gonna walk in and slap the cuffs on you.
707
00:35:54,940 --> 00:35:56,300
That's right away.
708
00:35:56,580 --> 00:35:59,660
Clearly, it's always the spouse, especially if the spouse is a mystery writer.
709
00:36:00,220 --> 00:36:01,280
Oh, for sure. Yeah. So.
710
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,860
So also, we're going to talk a little bit because we're, of course, interested in
711
00:36:04,940 --> 00:36:09,760
interviewing people. So you have this great show, Word on Words, which I was
712
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:14,060
I was actually going to say you were our first Emmy winner, but I don't, you guys won a regional
713
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:15,060
Emmy and we had another.
714
00:36:15,060 --> 00:36:15,580
Regional Emmy, yeah.
715
00:36:15,820 --> 00:36:16,580
That's pretty awesome.
716
00:36:16,790 --> 00:36:17,980
So we love interviewing authors.
717
00:36:18,260 --> 00:36:19,800
It's been one of our favorite things that we do.
718
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:24,140
So what's one of the most surprising things you've learned from interviewing other authors?
719
00:36:24,550 --> 00:36:28,060
You know, something that might have changed how you did your own work or how you approached
720
00:36:28,240 --> 00:36:28,600
something.
721
00:36:29,679 --> 00:36:31,820
Just that I can do it, right?
722
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:35,840
I mean, when they asked me to do it, I said, "No."
723
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:42,520
times because the whole idea of me being on camera asking, "Now we're 12 seasons in and
724
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:47,040
it's no big deal." But everybody has their own way up the mountain. Everybody does it
725
00:36:47,100 --> 00:36:52,520
different. And you can do something I call chasing OPP, chasing other people's process.
726
00:36:53,240 --> 00:36:57,460
And it's really easy to do because it does sound great and it does work for them.
727
00:36:57,900 --> 00:37:00,440
And it works for them. So why was it a little work for me?
728
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:05,700
I'm interviewing giants in the field, intellectual giants.
729
00:37:06,020 --> 00:37:09,120
I, you know, Margaret Atwood, I went to jail with Margaret Atwood.
730
00:37:09,130 --> 00:37:09,780
It was kind of fun.
731
00:37:09,900 --> 00:37:11,260
Um, you know, and asking.
732
00:37:11,690 --> 00:37:14,140
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
733
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:16,060
Come back.
734
00:37:16,720 --> 00:37:17,140
You said.
735
00:37:18,599 --> 00:37:23,560
Her book, it was for her book, "The Heart Goes Last" and the, we used to shoot,
736
00:37:23,720 --> 00:37:27,460
we now shoot back in the studio, but we used to shoot on site thematically linked
737
00:37:27,580 --> 00:37:28,060
to the books.
738
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:30,980
So, Debra Harkness came, we went to a winery.
739
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:38,340
Margaret Atwood came we took her to jail and we taped the show in a jail cell yes you can look it up on a word on words dot org
740
00:37:38,580 --> 00:37:44,340
Just look for Margaret Atwood and you will see me looking like a deer in the headlights with Margaret Atwood in a jail cell
741
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:46,820
I had to take an out of van before that one because i'm like
742
00:37:47,319 --> 00:37:49,160
terrified of being incarcerated
743
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:52,800
For something i didn't do it's like a personal scare thing
744
00:37:53,180 --> 00:37:57,200
So yeah, I went to jail with Margaret Atwood and you know talking to her talking to John Grisham
745
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:02,400
Grisham's been one of my favorite authors for a really long time and being able to sit down with him
746
00:38:02,740 --> 00:38:08,100
and ask him, you know, point blank, he doesn't need the money. And I said to him, I'm like,
747
00:38:08,260 --> 00:38:13,520
why do you do this? You don't need the money. You don't need to come back out on tour after 20
748
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:19,160
years away. Why are you doing this? And he looked at me and he says, you know why. And I said, I do
749
00:38:19,240 --> 00:38:24,960
know why you love it. And he said, I love it. And that is the thing I think throughout every
750
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:31,360
interview what has come away with is we love what we do. We love writing books,
751
00:38:31,720 --> 00:38:34,980
whether they're nonfiction or fiction. We love writing them. We love getting them
752
00:38:35,060 --> 00:38:39,260
into readers' hands. We love connecting with people. And this is how introverts
753
00:38:39,420 --> 00:38:43,560
connect, right? We write books. I mean, that's the way we are. We're
754
00:38:43,660 --> 00:38:46,780
about and we tend to connect like that. And it's like suddenly we're like this
755
00:38:46,860 --> 00:38:50,760
community that builds together. One of the things we love about doing this is
756
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:52,600
is the fact that it is a community.
757
00:38:52,670 --> 00:38:54,480
And we've met, you know, now we've met you.
758
00:38:54,580 --> 00:38:56,740
We meet all these wonderful people and we've met some,
759
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:58,900
like you said, you sit with some people who are just huge.
760
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,060
Like I can't even imagine sitting with Margaret Atwood.
761
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:03,200
You'd be like, "Oh, I've met John Grish before."
762
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:04,920
And he's such a delightful individual.
763
00:39:05,290 --> 00:39:06,100
So I can imagine.
764
00:39:06,220 --> 00:39:10,500
But everybody that we've ever talked to on here
765
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,180
has always been, it doesn't matter how big they are,
766
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:16,460
whatever, it's such a great community that authors have.
767
00:39:16,620 --> 00:39:17,800
And it's kind of neat that we kind of
768
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:19,320
blend it all together like that.
769
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:22,920
- Yeah, no, I agree 100%.
770
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:25,420
It is the coolest thing ever is this community.
771
00:39:26,020 --> 00:39:27,800
- So you had to tell, was it any of John Gray's,
772
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:29,660
or anybody really big that you were like,
773
00:39:29,720 --> 00:39:31,420
"Oh, I can't believe I get to meet them
774
00:39:31,490 --> 00:39:32,580
"and interview them."
775
00:39:32,780 --> 00:39:32,940
So.
776
00:39:33,460 --> 00:39:35,300
- I mean, those two were biggie's.
777
00:39:35,300 --> 00:39:35,980
- That's pretty big.
778
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:36,820
- Yeah, yeah.
779
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:38,480
- One, oh, somebody like, you know.
780
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,620
- Yeah, they were, you know, but every season
781
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,180
I'm meeting new people and, you know,
782
00:39:44,340 --> 00:39:45,940
I get a lot of debut authors.
783
00:39:46,540 --> 00:39:48,160
- He's wanting you to say Douglas Pratt is here.
784
00:39:48,180 --> 00:39:48,720
- I was fiction.
785
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:49,640
Yeah, you were the guy.
786
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:50,400
You're his bathroom wife.
787
00:39:50,540 --> 00:39:52,380
I even picked up on the hint there.
788
00:39:52,580 --> 00:39:53,060
So it's like.
789
00:39:53,620 --> 00:39:54,020
(laughing)
790
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:56,840
The one we're really hoping to get.
791
00:39:57,340 --> 00:39:58,340
It's a guy from Memphis.
792
00:39:58,840 --> 00:39:59,780
A guy from Memphis.
793
00:39:59,940 --> 00:40:00,920
A asshole from Memphis.
794
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:02,320
That's probably Mark Groeney, not me.
795
00:40:03,180 --> 00:40:04,540
Oh, Groeney's a good guy.
796
00:40:04,700 --> 00:40:05,120
I like him.
797
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:05,760
Groeney's a great guy.
798
00:40:06,180 --> 00:40:08,560
Groeney just had, what was I watching?
799
00:40:08,940 --> 00:40:11,200
Oh man, I was just watching something
800
00:40:11,380 --> 00:40:13,780
and on the bookshelf carefully placed right there
801
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:14,580
was a Mark Groeney.
802
00:40:14,620 --> 00:40:15,500
Widow's Bay.
803
00:40:15,900 --> 00:40:16,380
Widow's Bay.
804
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:17,000
Widow's Bay.
805
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:17,700
Widow's Bay.
806
00:40:18,540 --> 00:40:25,720
Yeah, sitting in the bookshop van or something and there's a Mark Green he's sat right there really really nice nod.
807
00:40:26,240 --> 00:40:31,060
Yes really cool. He is just one of the nicest guys in the industry to you really is.
808
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:38,500
Yeah he's really nice guy. He's super nice. Yeah, we've got a cross path with Gary now and again here in Memphis but that's been about it.
809
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:42,840
It's great and national's got a great you got a great author scene up there.
810
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:50,120
We have a huge community. We have a huge community. I mean so many professionals and so many indies
811
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:54,580
And we all kind of commingle and it's just so much. Yeah, I keep trying
812
00:40:54,700 --> 00:40:57,000
I'm just like I'd like to go to like I like Memphis
813
00:40:57,370 --> 00:41:02,060
But I'd like to go to national and do all my writing stuff because it's a more creative come for a southern
814
00:41:02,699 --> 00:41:08,480
Festival come up for something festival. I didn't either I am I might be up there for a killer national in a couple of weeks
815
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,340
So I've not done that one before, which is like right here.
816
00:41:11,540 --> 00:41:12,220
So it's always come.
817
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:13,760
You will love it.
818
00:41:13,900 --> 00:41:14,840
It's really fun.
819
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:19,620
Because of book launch and everything, the timing is great and awful.
820
00:41:20,240 --> 00:41:22,580
And we've got some family stuff going on.
821
00:41:22,780 --> 00:41:26,520
So I haven't been able to books a lot of stuff because things keep having to be canceled.
822
00:41:26,700 --> 00:41:29,160
And I didn't want to have to pull out at the last minute.
823
00:41:29,210 --> 00:41:30,840
Like I had to do all year long.
824
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:32,320
Well, it happens that way sometimes.
825
00:41:33,060 --> 00:41:34,020
Yeah, sometimes it does.
826
00:41:34,540 --> 00:41:36,900
So let's kind of talk a little bit more about like thrillers and stuff.
827
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:38,460
Like one of the things that we've talked a lot about,
828
00:41:38,980 --> 00:41:40,840
we're all, we all write thrillers and stuff.
829
00:41:40,940 --> 00:41:43,020
And thrillers have kind of gotten shelved next to each other
830
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:46,380
for years, but the kind of the range of what thrillers are
831
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:48,480
has spread out a little bit.
832
00:41:48,740 --> 00:41:51,480
So I guess where do you feel at most at home in that spectrum?
833
00:41:51,620 --> 00:41:53,640
Cause you write a little bit of the domestic
834
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:56,220
and you got some other stuff that gets a little darker.
835
00:41:56,440 --> 00:42:00,300
So what do you feel is your sweet spot on that spectrum of?
836
00:42:01,380 --> 00:42:02,340
Your subgenre, yeah.
837
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:03,940
- My sub-sub-subgenre?
838
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:05,700
- Yes, sub-sub-subgenre.
839
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:07,760
I always dig a Gothic, right?
840
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:09,940
With a big set piece, that's really fun.
841
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:14,760
And I like these stand-alones where I like
842
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:16,360
to have multiple points of view.
843
00:42:16,780 --> 00:42:19,100
Mysteries are incredibly hard for me.
844
00:42:19,860 --> 00:42:21,080
Incredibly hard for me.
845
00:42:21,260 --> 00:42:23,960
I don't like being stuck in one person's head.
846
00:42:24,420 --> 00:42:26,520
Last scene is a mystery and I struggled with it.
847
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:29,220
And I mean, blatantly, openly online,
848
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,000
struggled with telling that story because it was a mystery.
849
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:33,820
I'm using my hands, I'm Italian.
850
00:42:34,260 --> 00:42:34,560
- Oh, okay.
851
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:37,820
Yeah, that should explain it to anybody who's listening.
852
00:42:38,020 --> 00:42:38,680
I am the call.
853
00:42:38,790 --> 00:42:40,620
My hands are all over the place right now.
854
00:42:41,620 --> 00:42:47,720
jazz hands, the whole idea of being able to manipulate the characters, very bad thing,
855
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:52,380
Columbia Jones, dead author at the beginning of the book, she dies in the beginning of
856
00:42:52,380 --> 00:42:54,080
the book, it's not a spoiler.
857
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:59,980
She is the spoke of the center of a wheel and all the characters are spokes on a wheel,
858
00:43:00,460 --> 00:43:00,540
right?
859
00:43:00,990 --> 00:43:02,000
All of my books have a shape.
860
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:04,060
And so that one was the wheel.
861
00:43:04,780 --> 00:43:09,100
And it worked really, really well because I had eight points of view and every single
862
00:43:09,180 --> 00:43:13,840
one of them was how they reacted and interacted with this person who was already dead.
863
00:43:14,180 --> 00:43:15,500
Those are the most fun for me.
864
00:43:15,740 --> 00:43:20,480
When I can hop around and tell bigger stories, it becomes a bigger story even though it's
865
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:21,040
suspense.
866
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:22,880
I like the thriller.
867
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:26,200
We're trying to stop something bad from happening.
868
00:43:26,620 --> 00:43:31,600
The books I did with Catherine Coulter, those were big time, big set piece international
869
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:36,420
thrillers where we're trying to stop the world from ending. But once you save the world,
870
00:43:36,620 --> 00:43:40,600
where do you go from there? Then the series is over. You've saved the world.
871
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:41,980
Yeah, somebody else is going to come along.
872
00:43:41,980 --> 00:43:42,420
You've got to be careful.
873
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:47,860
As James Bond has taught us, they've got more people coming to destroy the world.
874
00:43:48,100 --> 00:43:49,140
You've got to wait for the next villain.
875
00:43:49,900 --> 00:43:57,040
So those are really fun. I mean, I like that I have been afforded the honor of having a
876
00:43:57,040 --> 00:44:02,280
career for this long that I can experiment and I can try different genres and I can hop
877
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:02,640
around.
878
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:07,720
Usually I'll do a smaller, more insular book and then I'll do a bigger and then a smaller
879
00:44:07,980 --> 00:44:11,960
and then a bigger just to keep me excited about what I'm doing.
880
00:44:12,340 --> 00:44:13,240
This has been fantastic.
881
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:15,420
There's lots of things we didn't get to.
882
00:44:15,660 --> 00:44:17,320
So we'll do this again sometime.
883
00:44:17,860 --> 00:44:18,100
Awesome.
884
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:18,780
I would love that.
885
00:44:18,820 --> 00:44:20,020
And have you back on.
886
00:44:20,020 --> 00:44:21,860
But we have a couple of questions to wrap up here.
887
00:44:22,060 --> 00:44:26,220
And the first one we ask everybody is, what do you think your author's superpower is?
888
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:29,600
Description I think I can set a stage pretty well
889
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:36,180
I've been called cinematic and that to me is a compliment because I feel like I do a lot of like
890
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:42,800
Screenplay game in the book like this is the scene that I'm seeing. I'm very very visual and so I think that translates
891
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:46,260
I like that. That's a it's a fundamental building block
892
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:52,220
Yeah, setting is huge well setting is huge. It should be a character. It shouldn't just be a name
893
00:44:52,220 --> 00:44:57,220
Well, I think, yeah, we both kind of, he uses the Cayman Islands as a character because
894
00:44:57,320 --> 00:44:58,460
it's all flashy and sexy.
895
00:44:58,840 --> 00:44:59,420
So, I know.
896
00:44:59,420 --> 00:44:59,620
Yeah.
897
00:44:59,860 --> 00:45:01,920
I mean, it's important and you can...
898
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:02,600
Important to...
899
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:06,300
You know, what you're sharing with the reader is the experience that they could have if
900
00:45:06,300 --> 00:45:07,280
they were there, right?
901
00:45:07,500 --> 00:45:08,020
Right, absolutely.
902
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:10,640
And if you're doing it right, then they are experiencing it.
903
00:45:10,740 --> 00:45:16,900
Well, and especially in series, which we both write in series, so it's key to have people
904
00:45:17,340 --> 00:45:21,060
feel like they're back home again when they open, when they start one of your books, they're
905
00:45:21,060 --> 00:45:23,120
coming back to a place that's now familiar to them.
906
00:45:23,430 --> 00:45:26,460
And nothing better than a reader who's like, oh, I've been to that spot.
907
00:45:26,490 --> 00:45:27,540
I know exactly what it is.
908
00:45:27,660 --> 00:45:30,220
And it makes them feel in his broad end.
909
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:30,620
Grounded.
910
00:45:30,820 --> 00:45:32,220
It grounds them in the story.
911
00:45:32,580 --> 00:45:32,840
Yeah.
912
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:33,320
Yeah.
913
00:45:33,460 --> 00:45:34,020
Very much so.
914
00:45:34,140 --> 00:45:34,340
Okay.
915
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:37,900
We have another question for you, which is going to be random from our wheel of
916
00:45:38,020 --> 00:45:39,740
questions, wheel of questions that we have.
917
00:45:39,940 --> 00:45:40,700
Oh, I love it.
918
00:45:40,940 --> 00:45:42,240
No expense spared.
919
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:45,580
Do you have this kind of, these kind of props on, on words, on words?
920
00:45:46,119 --> 00:45:51,040
No, but if, if I ever teach, I do have a frisbee that has the
921
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:55,180
have an elemental plot and you get to spin the wheel of plot. So I feel very much at
922
00:45:55,220 --> 00:45:58,280
home. Oh, there we go. Ceci, we should definitely
923
00:45:58,390 --> 00:46:04,080
bring your wheel of plots on and our wheel of questions can go together. We should...
924
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:10,600
All right. So what is one food that you hate that everyone else likes?
925
00:46:11,700 --> 00:46:16,160
Tomatoes. Oh, I find them disgusting. But I will eat anything made of tomatoes.
926
00:46:16,500 --> 00:46:19,040
Oh, I was going to ask you, do you eat ketchup on your fries?
927
00:46:19,720 --> 00:46:25,760
I like ketchup, I like sauce, I like salsa, but I cannot eat a raw tomato.
928
00:46:26,220 --> 00:46:26,900
I will vomit.
929
00:46:27,350 --> 00:46:28,820
Is it a texture thing?
930
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:34,900
It's texture, it's taste, it is just there's something about them that is just...
931
00:46:35,140 --> 00:46:37,060
I always said they were onomatopoeic, really.
932
00:46:38,620 --> 00:46:40,600
Mine is mushrooms, but kind of for the same thing.
933
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:45,800
Mine's a texture thing, like it could be eaten long and you could slide a mushroom in there
934
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:50,200
and I don't know about it and I'll just bite into it and I'll be like, "Eeeh, oh."
935
00:46:50,530 --> 00:46:50,860
Yeah, no.
936
00:46:50,970 --> 00:46:53,320
I would like to like mushrooms, but no, I just can't.
937
00:46:53,610 --> 00:46:54,380
I don't mind the flavor.
938
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:57,560
I'm the fussiest eater in the world and I like mushrooms.
939
00:46:58,060 --> 00:46:58,360
How's that?
940
00:46:58,820 --> 00:46:59,480
Isn't that weird?
941
00:46:59,720 --> 00:47:02,420
Because they are something that, you know, people...
942
00:47:02,420 --> 00:47:03,600
You either love them or hate them.
943
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:04,580
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
944
00:47:04,690 --> 00:47:08,200
And I actually love mushrooms, but I'm super fussy.
945
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:10,700
So I eat barely any vegetables.
946
00:47:10,910 --> 00:47:12,220
I think they're really bad for you.
947
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:13,380
I think the science is wrong.
948
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:14,880
It's just...
949
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:16,140
Science is wrong.
950
00:47:17,020 --> 00:47:17,900
I'm gonna go with that.
951
00:47:18,100 --> 00:47:18,460
You're a carnivore.
952
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:18,940
You're a carnivore.
953
00:47:18,940 --> 00:47:19,760
Oh my God, I'm trying to.
954
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:20,760
No, he's British.
955
00:47:21,140 --> 00:47:23,020
They don't have any vegetables over there anyway.
956
00:47:23,580 --> 00:47:23,860
We do.
957
00:47:23,950 --> 00:47:24,460
We have potatoes.
958
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:25,860
You have peas.
959
00:47:26,420 --> 00:47:27,440
We have peas and potatoes.
960
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:28,040
We have mushroom peas.
961
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:28,500
Mushroom peas?
962
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:30,580
Yeah, well, that would put you on peas for life.
963
00:47:30,580 --> 00:47:32,020
Yeah, I think you put gravy on top of it.
964
00:47:32,240 --> 00:47:32,620
So, yeah.
965
00:47:33,819 --> 00:47:37,580
I'm the weirdest eater in the world, so if it's not my...
966
00:47:37,670 --> 00:47:40,900
If I could live on French fries and cheese, I would...
967
00:47:41,380 --> 00:47:42,200
I'd be happy.
968
00:47:42,500 --> 00:47:44,040
I mean, you can live on French fries.
969
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:44,860
I used to work in restaurants.
970
00:47:45,140 --> 00:47:48,900
That's what was my entire meal was we had a big cheese thing
971
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:50,460
where we put the cheese dip and we walk by
972
00:47:50,460 --> 00:47:51,920
and pick up a fry and dip it and walk.
973
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:53,500
That was how you just ate all night long.
974
00:47:53,500 --> 00:47:53,800
- There you go.
975
00:47:54,519 --> 00:47:56,900
Lee Child only eats hamburgers and drink champagne.
976
00:47:57,040 --> 00:47:58,740
- Yeah, he smoked a lot of weed though too.
977
00:47:59,260 --> 00:47:59,620
(laughing)
978
00:48:01,020 --> 00:48:01,540
- That too.
979
00:48:02,370 --> 00:48:06,760
But yeah, he's pretty single tracked on his food.
980
00:48:07,370 --> 00:48:07,860
- Yeah, that's cool.
981
00:48:07,980 --> 00:48:08,500
That's good to know.
982
00:48:08,780 --> 00:48:09,880
All right, this has been the--
983
00:48:09,900 --> 00:48:11,280
- That makes Nick feel better.
984
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:14,060
He's like, "Oh, I'm not the only weird one."
985
00:48:14,060 --> 00:48:15,340
- Yeah, an exposing Lee Child,
986
00:48:15,500 --> 00:48:16,760
we should probably end on that note.
987
00:48:17,020 --> 00:48:17,460
(laughing)
988
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:21,180
Hey, JT, thank you so much.
989
00:48:21,380 --> 00:48:23,900
And best of luck with the release of the new book.
990
00:48:23,980 --> 00:48:26,640
I'm sure it's gonna go ballistic like the last one did.
991
00:48:26,860 --> 00:48:28,120
And go out and read it.
992
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:29,280
- Thank you, guys.
993
00:48:30,220 --> 00:48:31,020
(upbeat music)
994
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:38,360
- Thank you, JT, that was awesome.
995
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:41,140
I love a good talk like that, but man, that was great.
996
00:48:41,700 --> 00:48:44,040
- She's, you know, she's been in a jail cell
997
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:45,980
happened. That's what she said. That's crazy.
998
00:48:48,019 --> 00:48:51,780
She was just skipping right past that, just like throwing it out there as I
999
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:54,440
mentioned, I'm like, oh, reel that back in.
1000
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:58,300
Stop that right there. Yeah, it's amazing. Like, it's, you know, we should do that.
1001
00:48:58,380 --> 00:49:02,380
We should have a, you know, onsite in jail. It would be just us in jail, probably.
1002
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:05,640
But, you know, I was going to say, we just got to call someone up.
1003
00:49:06,020 --> 00:49:10,320
Get arrested the next time and they can come and be outside and then we'll
1004
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:15,600
recorded or I was hoping it was going to be some you know story of a drunken
1005
00:49:15,860 --> 00:49:19,480
night out in Nashville and they ended up in jail cell but still it was pretty
1006
00:49:19,540 --> 00:49:22,320
cool. Yeah well in Nashville does bring about some weird things so you never
1007
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:26,040
know but you know what it's great you know yes out there looking for
1008
00:49:26,180 --> 00:49:31,100
information like her sub stack is full of some stuff I mean the first of all you
1009
00:49:31,100 --> 00:49:35,080
get to see a step-by-step process of how you write a novel. Is that crazy? Live
1010
00:49:35,220 --> 00:49:39,200
writing the whole novel through sub stack. Oh that's selling novel at that so
1011
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:41,980
you might as well, if you're going to look for somebody to follow, you might as well
1012
00:49:42,020 --> 00:49:43,520
follow somebody who's doing a best selling model.
1013
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:44,820
That's pretty freaking impressive.
1014
00:49:44,820 --> 00:49:48,760
But I also love the point that she made is like, "Here's how I'm doing it and here's
1015
00:49:48,860 --> 00:49:49,760
some different ways."
1016
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:52,420
But I was thinking when she was saying that stuff, it's like a menu.
1017
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:56,820
What you're doing is just accumulating information to fill out your menu.
1018
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:00,520
Then you pick and choose from the menu what works for you, right?
1019
00:50:01,020 --> 00:50:05,460
So if you don't like mushrooms, Doug, then don't choose the mushrooms, right?
1020
00:50:05,620 --> 00:50:07,080
You've got something else to choose from.
1021
00:50:07,460 --> 00:50:11,300
Yeah, and if you don't like vegetables, you might want to go get some vitamins or something.
1022
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:12,420
Skip straight to the zone.
1023
00:50:13,260 --> 00:50:14,360
Straight to the zone.
1024
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:21,700
Also, don't forget, her book came out today if you're listening to this on the day of
1025
00:50:21,860 --> 00:50:22,840
launch, but it is out now.
1026
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:23,580
You know why?
1027
00:50:24,090 --> 00:50:25,800
I do not know why, but she chose the day.
1028
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:28,800
So, you know why it's available today.
1029
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:32,780
So make sure you go get it on Amazon or at your bookstores or wherever.
1030
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:34,080
So be awesome.
1031
00:50:34,700 --> 00:50:35,260
Very cool.
1032
00:50:35,260 --> 00:50:40,660
So support and thank you guys for supporting our show over on patreon and your kindness helps cover the cost
1033
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:45,940
And if you want to thank you thank you join our club over there hit us up at patreon.com
1034
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:49,700
Ford slash the two authors podcast. Oh, you got my kids
1035
00:50:50,240 --> 00:50:55,540
There's a little chat feature over there. You can chat with us and make comments on the show. So it's always worth doing
1036
00:50:56,060 --> 00:51:01,440
Yeah, those questions big thanks as always to our friends at vellum for their support. Thank you so much
1037
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:06,660
Make sure you guys go check them out. Go to trivellum.com/twoauthors.
1038
00:51:06,980 --> 00:51:10,580
Trivellum.com/twoauthors to find out more about us.
1039
00:51:10,650 --> 00:51:13,960
And you'll find the notes as well as links for our guest information,
1040
00:51:14,140 --> 00:51:16,180
her sub-stack and her thing.
1041
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:19,260
So we make sure you check all that out and we will be back next week with a new
1042
00:51:19,420 --> 00:51:20,860
episode of the Two Authors Podcast.
1043
00:51:21,460 --> 00:51:23,580
Until next time, be cool to each other.
1044
00:51:23,740 --> 00:51:25,400
Fair wins and following scenes.
1045
00:51:26,860 --> 00:51:30,880
You've been listening to the Two Authors podcast with Nicholas Harvey
1046
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:32,060
and Douglas Pratt.
1047
00:51:32,660 --> 00:51:34,380
Subscribe on your favourite platform
1048
00:51:34,730 --> 00:51:36,860
for new shows coming every week.
1049
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:38,660
(upbeat music)