WEBVTT
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00:00:05.200Welcome to season 13 of the Prosthetics and Orthotics Podcast.
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00:00:13.119This is where we connect with experts in the field, patients who use these devices, physical therapists, and the vendors who help bring it all together.
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00:00:19.679Our mission remains the same: to share stories, tips, and insights that help improve patient outcomes.
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00:00:22.000Tune in and join the conversation.
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00:00:25.440We're glad you're here and hope it's the highlight of your day.
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00:00:31.120Hello, everyone, and welcome to another edition of the Prostetics and Arthotics Podcast with Brent Wright.
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00:00:31.920How are you doing, Brent?
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00:00:33.600Hey, I'm doing well, yours.
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00:00:39.119You know, on the screen here, this is not an endorsement.
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00:00:41.359We don't have a new sponsor or anything.
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00:00:44.479But uh we have the maybe we should ask them.
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00:00:46.000I'll send it away.
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00:00:47.359Now's the time.
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00:00:50.399I I guess if we find it depends on what we find, huh?
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00:00:51.039Or what we say.
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00:00:51.920Yeah, exactly.
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00:00:55.200There isn't a benefit of being independent for sure.
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00:01:02.560Yeah, no surprise uh with this title slide that we're going to be talking about the Embla Medical Annual Report.
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00:01:17.200But uh, you know, before we before we hop in, speaking of just like being independent and such, I know we say this all the time, but it really is neat to be able to talk to a myriad of things in orthotics and prosthetics.
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00:01:28.000And I mean, well, I would say we have a filter, and we're not the filter is more like positivity, like, hey, yes, you need a clinician to be involved in your care.
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00:01:30.719You can't do this necessarily in your basement.
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00:01:35.680We need to work on education, we need to work on how we are going to 3D print this stuff.
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00:01:37.200We got to work on strength.
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00:01:44.079Like, it's not like we're bashing, it's just like, hey, this is what we need to do, and this is where we need to, where we need to go.
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00:01:50.560But I think there is a, you know, a beauty in being able to, you know, give our unfiltered opinion.
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00:01:55.680But I guess this would also be a good time to say that uh we are not trained lawyer professionals.
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00:01:58.560Your mileage may vary and all that illicit.
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00:02:03.120You would be stupid to to take our investment advice.
00:02:03.280 -->
00:02:05.120I think I told a friend of mine to sell Apple stock.
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00:02:07.519I think it cost him approximately a house.
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00:02:13.520Yeah, and I've since then I never have given out investment advice to anyone and will never ever do so again.
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00:02:14.000Yeah.
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00:02:16.080And uh so so please don't.
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00:02:19.840And and another thing, like I actually, yes, it's wonderful to be able to talk about this stuff.
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00:02:38.800And actually, I was kind of a bit kind of, I don't know about nearly choked up, kind of really very in awe of what we've built here, because with our last episode, I don't know if if which episode is gonna go out when, but with our last episode, like actually, you know, the another previous episode being used by someone to inform her about a really momentous life-changing decision.
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00:02:40.960That was like really like wow for me.
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00:02:47.919That was like a really wow moment that somebody would find us that useful, you know, for a really, really important decision for their life.
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00:02:50.800Uh so I was like a little bit kind of like wow, you know?
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00:02:54.240Yeah, I mean, that's almost like the investment advice, right?
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00:02:55.120That you gave.
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00:03:02.639And people were people were taking it our uh discussion uh with with other people and loved ones chiming in on the decision.
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00:03:13.840So that I am glad you brought that up because I didn't think about it that way, but to to inform a decision based on what's like I'm not saying we, you know, it's like it was like literally she used it as background information for her to make her decision.
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00:03:16.240I thought that was like really like whoa, this is amazing.
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00:03:21.199This is like for me, all of our effort in this would be totally worth it for just that one event.
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00:03:23.039I'm really, really happy with that.
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00:03:24.400I agree, I agree.
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00:03:25.280So that's cool.
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00:03:27.840Um, so now on to the Embla uh report.
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00:03:29.199Again, I really don't like the name.
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00:03:32.319It sounds like an army fighting for an African country in the 80s.
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00:03:40.479Also, it does not help that all their executives look like they're villains from the Harry Potter universe and have names to match.
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00:03:44.879Come on, Conal Hart, no, that's not a real name.
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00:03:46.080Good John Carson.
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00:03:48.879Sounds like, you know, it sounds like a really early Bond movie or something.
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00:03:55.039But, but uh apart from that, yeah, I did get a chance to look at not all of it, but a but a bunch of it.
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00:03:59.680And I don't know, at first glance, like steady on the wheel kind of thing.
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00:04:11.759You know, nothing really, to me at least, jumps out as crazy in their annual report, crazy new directions, crazy new um uh new things, you know.
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00:04:16.319Uh, you know, the venue is uh higher, right?
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00:04:17.27910% higher.
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00:04:22.959But uh gross margins are a little bit lower, a bit of margin is a little bit lower.
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00:04:26.480Uh and net profit is a bit higher.
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00:04:30.800Or actually no, the net profit's actually increased by by like a fifth or something, so that's actually quite nice.
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00:04:34.399Free clash free cash flow is a bit better as well.
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00:04:40.240But if you read the CO's letter, it seems very down-to-earth, but very kind of like, hey, we kind of we wanted more.
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00:04:41.519You know what I mean?
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00:04:42.639Yeah.
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00:04:45.040So that's kind of like my my feeling.
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00:04:46.639It seems like they're just continuing.
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00:04:53.279There doesn't seem to me, at least on first glance, it doesn't seem like they're doing anything really crazy or really or have experienced anything really crazy.
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00:05:00.000They did this acquisition uh, right, for this uh this German uh was it the production company?
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00:05:02.000Yep, Fjorn Gens, that one.
00:05:02.399 -->
00:05:03.839The strifeenator too.
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00:05:04.639Yeah, exactly.
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00:05:07.920That's a basic you know, business as usual, kind of.
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00:05:08.319Yeah.
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00:05:11.519Yeah, so I think I think that's yeah, one good take.
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00:05:27.839I think another interesting take is how they are trying to move away from their roots of OSER, and OSER being the component manufacturer, and now you have this uh umbrella that's Embla, and then you have the clinics that are for motion, and then you've got things that kind of filter down there.
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00:06:01.199So I think as we look through this report, though, this is what I this is what stuck out to me as I look into it, is you now have this kind of vertical and you see some wording of some things of showing where there have been some difficulties when you're trying to integrate and you're buying these other like clinical companies, and then you're trying to bring them under the umbrella, and maybe they're not as profitable as what you expected, and now you're also looking at talked about this in the education side, there's just not a ton of prosodus.
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00:06:21.519And so they're also looking forward like, how are we going to take the prostodes and orthodists that we have and leverage their experience via software, machine learning, AI, we'll get to that part to be able to take care of this uh larger population of people.
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00:06:24.560So I think that is interesting.
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00:06:26.240And actually, we'll just get right into it.
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00:06:40.079So on the screen, and people can, if you if you want to get to us, or you're following along at home, or you want to get to this, if you go to just Google and type in Embla 2025 annual report, it's going to be right there.
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00:06:41.600And let's just come back up.
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00:06:46.879So Embla actually does a really nice job of summarizing the market and the global stuff.
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00:06:48.079So I've read a lot of these.
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00:06:50.399This is a very good, very legible annual report.
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00:06:51.040100%.
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00:07:00.480Yeah, so and I think it and it and it tells a lot about the orthotic and prosthetic field and industry globally as a whole.
00:07:00.639 -->
00:07:05.360And so we're gonna be able to springboard on a couple other things, but I think it does a really nice job.
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00:07:06.560So page four.
00:07:06.639 -->
00:07:12.639Like first first thing, yeah, I wanted to check out page four because there's one thing that jumps onto me again when looking at this that I didn't expect.
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00:07:14.160I don't, I don't really, yeah.
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00:07:15.519And that's the middle thing there.
00:07:15.680 -->
00:07:20.480Honesty, courage is courage also is a bit heroic wording for uh annual report.
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00:07:25.920Usually not a lot of people go to like, you know, work for a multinational corporation with a courage is a as a mindset.
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00:07:36.319And but the second one, frugality, I think is really, really brilliant to have that as a company, to have that as a uh, you know, that that that kind of makes you, if you're an executive traveling, you do you want to upgrade your seat?
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00:07:37.600Do you want to go to the expensive hotel?
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00:07:40.959You know, it does influence your decisions if you've got frugality everywhere.
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00:07:50.240And I think it would help uh the owners of the business uh bring out more pro uh profit, and it would also maybe help people take really kind of smart decisions, like is this a frugal thing to do?
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00:07:54.079Can we can we, you know, we have a net a finite amount of resources?
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00:07:55.360How do we spend it wisely?
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00:07:56.079I think I think so.
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00:07:59.519I think it's a really nice thing to have that in there and and and have that as a value.
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00:08:02.240I thought I thought I just wanted to uh talk about that.
00:08:02.319 -->
00:08:03.759So what page do you want to go to?
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00:08:04.240All right.
00:08:04.399 -->
00:08:08.800So really this next page on the CEO page.
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00:08:16.560I mean, you said it was a really interesting um uh and down-to-earth letter, but six percent organic growth.
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00:08:19.600Yeah, not not crazy, but I thought this was interesting.
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00:08:23.360Strong performance in the prosthetics and neuroorthotics.
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00:08:25.279So we're gonna talk about this a little bit more.
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00:08:25.759Uh-huh.
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00:08:37.279Neuro is neuroorthotics is very interesting because I mean, a lot of people have had strokes and other things, uh-huh, and it far outnumbers any amputations.
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00:08:52.639And so the fact that they're looking towards this means that you have just opened up, and while it's a lower margin, you've opened up a market for another revenue source that has a population that's much greater.
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00:08:53.679I do not know that.
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00:08:54.720So that's really helpful.
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00:08:55.200Yeah.
00:08:55.440 -->
00:09:01.200So the other thing that's interesting is you said, you know, definitely a healthy EBITDA, a margin of 20%.
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00:09:15.120I I think what's interesting about this is even with all the acquisitions and everything, the fact that there's still a 20% EBITDA means that in a niche field like this, there's still money to be had.
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00:09:16.000It depends.
00:09:16.080 -->
00:09:20.559I mean, you would look at like if you were if you would have more software solutions, you'd expect that to be higher.
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00:09:25.759If you would have more lower quality production, perhaps more solution type of subscription type approaches.
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00:09:34.559There are different ways you can do it, but it does like really point to this being, you know, it's not gonna be really super aspiring for for a lot of financial folks looking at this, right?
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00:09:40.320Steady is good, 62% uh margins off the top, I think, uh at one point is good as well.
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00:09:48.720But uh but this eBay stuff is, yeah, it doesn't look it's not gonna make this very kind of like wow to Hollywood or Hollywood uh to to kind of like finance types.
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00:09:55.200And especially also they they say somewhere else that the market itself is growing five to eight percent, they're going around six, so they're not outgrowing the market.
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00:10:08.639The market isn't growing like gangbusters, so it's like it's kind of like you know, for the just a finance investor that could be uh investing in this or car companies or cruise lines or whatever, this it's probably not gonna be like the most like um inspiring uh thing financially for them.
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00:10:09.759Right, right.
00:10:10.000 -->
00:10:14.799So um, and then this is where this is get gets interesting, though.
00:10:14.879 -->
00:10:23.840So, like what you said, the EBITA 20%, nothing like earth shattering, but you've got to remember that it's 20% after all these acquisitions.
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00:10:25.919And then this is the key right here.
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00:10:36.879We also strengthened our foundation in patient care following a year with lower than expected growth as we undertook important changes to better support our patients in clinic over the long term.
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00:10:38.000Yeah, what did that mean?
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00:10:39.360Because I did not understand that.
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00:10:47.039So, so what that means is when you're buying practices, and we'll get onto this, it's it's a little bit further down.
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00:11:10.879There is, I mean, it's people like clinicians like like me and like uh we, you know, Katie and other clinicians on, and and a lot of them have been independent for a long time or what have you, and you're trying to bring this um under their umbrella and trying to, you know, get get things moving as one larger company, and it's it's just a really tough thing.
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00:11:11.200Okay.
00:11:11.519 -->
00:11:19.919And I think like when you're looking at acquisitions of clinics, that has really slowed down, even from the hangar, Autobach, Ocer.
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00:11:31.759I mean, equals doing some, but it's it's not guaranteed like I buy this$10 million clinic and I've got$10 million going back to the bottom line.
00:11:31.919 -->
00:11:36.799It's there's definitely more nuance in there, and it's not necessarily dollar for dollar.
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00:11:44.159So I thought it was And that that also points to maybe on the one hand, they can't do a McDrive strategy, like just pop the McDrives everywhere.
00:11:44.320 -->
00:11:51.120And perhaps also this there is a limit as well to to just how many of these things can acquire uh they can acquire, right?
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00:11:52.000Yeah, yeah.
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00:11:57.519Which is not great news for people who want to get out of the business, because this of course drive up the price of their practices.
00:11:57.679 -->
00:12:01.919Or it could be good news if you could make it, you know, knowable to people that, hey, you know what?
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00:12:09.919Yes, we do have Sarah and Jane and they're great, but we have systems in place that make sure that we have the best contact center in the southeast.
00:12:10.320 -->
00:12:10.720You know what I mean?
00:12:10.799 -->
00:12:19.200If you have then systems instead of just people, only people, then maybe they'll they'll be more inclined to inquire you to avoid these problems in the in the future.
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00:12:19.840You know.
00:12:21.919 -->
00:12:29.279And then one other thing to note is I thought this was interesting to they put a clinic in Kyiv in the Ukraine.
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00:12:30.559Yeah, that was nice.
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00:12:31.279That was nice.
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00:12:35.519So it is nice, but businesses don't do this to be nice.
00:12:35.679 -->
00:12:38.960They they do it because there's money to be had there.
00:12:39.200 -->
00:12:49.200And that that government, as well as the you know, incoming money from other places, really fund a lot of high-end prosthes.
00:12:49.440 -->
00:12:52.799And you know, they're not putting a uh clinic in the jungle of Guatemala.
00:12:52.960 -->
00:12:53.759There ain't no money there.
00:12:54.399 -->
00:12:55.279But you know what I'm saying?
00:12:55.360 -->
00:13:00.000So this is it's a good move in that, hey, you're getting brand recognition and that sort of thing.
00:13:00.159 -->
00:13:12.879But this is definitely you follow the money and you want a piece of the pie because they're giving money out left and right because of the war and the the advertising and all the things that come with it.
00:13:13.120 -->
00:13:21.440So there is this like feel good thing, but then there's uh, you know, there's the money side of like there's good money to be had out of Ukraine.
00:13:21.600 -->
00:13:22.720So anyway.
00:13:23.600 -->
00:13:27.360I have a question about the um was it the next page?
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00:13:27.600Yeah.
00:13:27.759 -->
00:13:28.000Yep.
00:13:28.240 -->
00:13:30.799So this is the they're just talking, and I just wanted to know from you.
00:13:30.960 -->
00:13:34.399Like, for some one of the things that that I noticed, we kind of talked about this before.
00:13:34.639 -->
00:13:41.679Like one of the things one of the things in Q1 that said full launch of new Bionic Knee's icon by College Park and Navi uh by Osir.
00:13:42.080 -->
00:13:47.200You know, you as a practitioner, you know, is that you know, are these brands very different to you still?
00:13:47.360 -->
00:13:50.639Because they're doing two bionic knee products in two different companies.
00:13:50.799 -->
00:13:52.159Is one premium to the other?
00:13:52.320 -->
00:13:54.159Are they different or do you not even know?
00:13:54.399 -->
00:13:55.519So they are different.
00:13:55.679 -->
00:14:01.200So the the icon by college park is a newer product to the market.
00:14:01.360 -->
00:14:03.360I don't know the inns, full ins and out.
00:14:03.600 -->
00:14:05.679I know we have a few of them out on that one.
00:14:05.759 -->
00:14:12.879And then the Navi probably is some sort of iteration of a previous generation that's been around for a while.
00:14:13.039 -->
00:14:13.840But it is hard.
00:14:13.919 -->
00:14:15.600Like there's two bionic knees.
00:14:15.679 -->
00:14:18.559How do you how does one not cannibalize the other?
00:14:18.720 -->
00:14:20.639Um, and maybe that's what they're doing, you know?
00:14:20.720 -->
00:14:30.159Maybe they're putting a uh, you know, Blu-ray and what was the other one at the same time, and whichever one wins, that's what you're gonna what you're gonna have there.
00:14:30.320 -->
00:14:33.919But you know, this this market is starting to get very crowded.
00:14:34.080 -->
00:14:43.440You've got uh companies like Brain Robotics, you still have the C Leg that you know most people are going to go to, C Leg X4 from Autobok.
00:14:43.600 -->
00:14:45.360So it's a it's a crowded market.
00:14:45.600 -->
00:14:54.480One interesting thing about the Brain Robotics side is they've actually created it to where you can charge it with a USB-C cable that you charge with your cell phone.
00:14:54.799 -->
00:15:04.960Wow, that would be so so yeah, instead of like Autobock charges, I think seven or eight hundred dollars for the cord so you can charge in your car.
00:15:05.279 -->
00:15:05.679Ouch.
00:15:06.159 -->
00:15:07.120So that's not nice.
00:15:07.360 -->
00:15:11.519But like Brain Robotics, they've they've done a lot of great things.
00:15:11.600 -->
00:15:15.600And one thing is we give patients options and we'll let them try.
00:15:15.679 -->
00:15:21.440And we've had multiple patients choose the brain robotics knee because they like it better.
00:15:21.600 -->
00:15:32.720It just has a you know kind of new the newer technology, but it it also leverages some of the latest technological advances that come in the Bionics side of things.
00:15:32.879 -->
00:15:34.639Uh, was there anything else on this page?
00:15:34.879 -->
00:15:36.799No, just go to wherever you want to go.
00:15:37.120 -->
00:15:37.440Right.
00:15:37.679 -->
00:15:51.200So on page eight, um, we already talked about the EBITDA, but um I think that along with what all they had going on was pretty wild.
00:15:51.360 -->
00:16:03.840The sales, uh like you mentioned, it was uh I think it was 8.7% revenue growth, but for that revenue growth, it increased the profit like 21.7%.
00:16:05.039 -->
00:16:08.639Yeah, but that also might be weird stuff with the dollar and stuff like that as well, right?
00:16:09.919 -->
00:16:10.799Potentially.
00:16:11.600 -->
00:16:17.039But none none the well, no, I think it was all uh whatever number that was.
00:16:17.120 -->
00:16:19.600It was just it was just interesting to me.
00:16:19.759 -->
00:16:26.879What that means is that once you cover your main expenses, there there is gravy that can come a little bit later on.
00:16:27.120 -->
00:16:34.080So as you drive revenue, your profitability potentially can go up at a different rate.
00:16:34.240 -->
00:16:36.080It's not necessarily just linear.
00:16:36.399 -->
00:16:36.639Okay.
00:16:36.799 -->
00:16:37.679All right, that's interesting.
00:16:37.840 -->
00:16:47.440Yeah, we'd have to look at what it is that's driving, but it could be interesting to to to look at it that way, to look at it not just as a as as as boring a business as maybe people think it is.
00:16:47.679 -->
00:16:48.000Yeah.
00:16:48.159 -->
00:16:59.519And then uh the other thing, as you mentioned, the the executive leadership does not necessarily reflect their gender ratio for the whole company, which Oh really?
00:16:59.679 -->
00:17:04.480Is it is it like is it like not because okay, I'd like to talk about it's 75% male.
00:17:04.559 -->
00:17:06.880So I think that's that's not good.
00:17:07.119 -->
00:17:12.559But okay, but the fact that they're they're tracking it at all and they're trying to bring it forward, like they're putting it in this insight.
00:17:12.880 -->
00:17:14.319That okay, that's something, I guess.
00:17:14.480 -->
00:17:15.200Yeah, yeah.
00:17:15.440 -->
00:17:15.920Yeah.
00:17:16.319 -->
00:17:17.519So this is interesting.
00:17:17.599 -->
00:17:19.200On this is page nine.
00:17:19.440 -->
00:17:23.759Their business segments, 33% of their revenue came from patient care.
00:17:24.240 -->
00:17:29.119So that's pretty quite astounding given the fact how long they've been doing.
00:17:29.359 -->
00:17:33.759Well, it also depends on what they see of that's just all the clinic revenue, right?
00:17:33.920 -->
00:17:34.480Yeah, yep.
00:17:34.640 -->
00:17:39.519That's actually kind of astounding considering how deeply they were involved in all the other stuff for so many years, right?
00:17:39.599 -->
00:17:42.559And then a third of the revenue comes from the the the service segment.
00:17:42.799 -->
00:17:43.599Yeah, yeah.
00:17:43.759 -->
00:17:46.000And I don't think I don't foresee that going anywhere.
00:17:46.079 -->
00:17:47.519You're gonna continue to do that.
00:17:47.680 -->
00:17:52.640And you know, that's the beauty of vertical integration, is you also sell to yourself, right?
00:17:52.720 -->
00:18:01.920So you're you may have a four-motion clinic and you may sell a lot of OSA products, and now you're buying from yourself, and that's a that's a that's a good thing to do.
00:18:02.400 -->
00:18:04.640And why do they have this bracing thing as a separate thing?
00:18:04.799 -->
00:18:09.200They keep this is like the part where they keep talking about the bracing, bracing, bracing afterwards.
00:18:09.759 -->
00:18:11.359Do you think that's such a huge thing?
00:18:11.519 -->
00:18:15.920Because they they seem to have really small market, they're like giant in the spresthetics part.
00:18:16.160 -->
00:18:16.559Yep.
00:18:16.720 -->
00:18:18.880And in the bracing thing, they're just like a really small player.
00:18:18.960 -->
00:18:20.720I think they have 5% of the market or something like this.
00:18:21.039 -->
00:18:21.599Correct.
00:18:21.759 -->
00:18:27.920Uh and yeah, you're s that just seems to me like, I don't know, maybe that could be anyone's game where you know what I mean?
00:18:28.000 -->
00:18:36.000It seems like a really accessible thing compared to all the stuff they're doing, or is am I missing something in this bracing thing being more substantive and interesting for them going forward?
00:18:36.240 -->
00:18:36.480Yeah.
00:18:36.640 -->
00:18:38.000Well, you're you're absolutely right.
00:18:38.079 -->
00:18:46.640I mean, they're known in the prosthetic side of things, not so much on the orthotic, but however, they have been in this kind of knee bracing game and that sort of thing.
00:18:46.960 -->
00:18:48.880So this is interesting.
00:18:48.960 -->
00:19:01.599They they create all kinds of knee bracing that are things for people that have had surgery or non-surgical candidates, injuries, that sort of thing, support for active people if they want to ski, do motocross, that sort of thing.
00:19:02.160 -->
00:19:07.039So they're they're splitting this on because it's it's a part of a bigger group of people, just like the other thing.
00:19:07.119 -->
00:19:09.680It's just part of a much, much larger patient population.
00:19:09.759 -->
00:19:11.440You can get anyone with a sports injury or whatever.
00:19:12.079 -->
00:19:12.400Correct.
00:19:12.480 -->
00:19:12.720Yeah.
00:19:12.880 -->
00:19:21.839So yeah, as you get your name known, um, it definitely opens up your your path for more revenue.
00:19:22.000 -->
00:19:30.640And these devices, while a higher volume, the margins are smaller, but you can make up for it in volume, especially if it's uh a brand that's recognized.
00:19:32.400 -->
00:19:33.359Correct, yeah, yeah.
00:19:33.440 -->
00:19:38.559So if you're in good with the ortho guys and that sort of thing, then get like that next.
00:19:38.799 -->
00:19:40.160Yeah, you could be at Target or whatever.
00:19:40.240 -->
00:19:40.640Okay, okay.
00:19:40.880 -->
00:19:42.799So this is this is very interesting.
00:19:42.960 -->
00:19:48.07990% of all their products were reimbursed by third-party payers.
00:19:48.319 -->
00:19:52.160So that's great, but scary at the same time.
00:19:52.400 -->
00:20:01.839When somebody else, so like for instance, you go to the hospital and you need a hand brace or uh let's call it, let's say a knee brace.
00:20:02.079 -->
00:20:03.599It's a thousand dollar knee brace.
00:20:03.759 -->
00:20:05.279Most people aren't yours.
00:20:05.440 -->
00:20:07.039You're not paying a thousand dollars for that.
00:20:07.359 -->
00:20:09.680The insurance is paying a thousand dollars for that.
00:20:09.920 -->
00:20:11.599So who is the true customer?
00:20:11.920 -->
00:20:13.759Is it you or is it the insurance?
00:20:14.000 -->
00:20:34.559And so I think that's what what they're saying is like, hey, uh, we have we have this where 90% of all our goods are paid by a third party, but that could be a benefit and it could be a risk because what we're seeing is just like we've talked about on some previous episodes, is these insurance companies are squeezing you, not wanting to pay, that sort of thing.
00:20:34.720 -->
00:20:41.759So there is a risk when you have all your eggs in that basket, but there's really no other way to get paid other than cash.
00:20:42.000 -->
00:20:42.319Yeah.
00:20:42.480 -->
00:20:46.720Also, I think I'm I'm bothered by this little circle graphic thing.
00:20:46.880 -->
00:20:47.519Yeah.
00:20:48.240 -->
00:20:49.920Because it isn't quite logical.
00:20:50.000 -->
00:21:04.480I mean, the best companies have like a flywheel type of effect where you're basically kind of spinning up something, or you're putting a lot, a lot of force, a lot of market forces into building a system that once it kind of gets going, like a flywheel storing that energy, it kind of reinforces itself.
00:21:05.839 -->
00:21:16.880And one of the classic examples of Amazon has a very famous kind of flywheel type effect where the the the more products that are there, the bigger the selection, the more people are drawn in, and then this then powers more products.
00:21:16.960 -->
00:21:22.319So then it kind of like makes it more attractive for sellers, which more people go in and then they pay more, et cetera.
00:21:22.480 -->
00:21:33.920And and I think the interesting thing about this page and having this little kind of circle y graph there, which maybe it's some some graphic design person's idea, innovation does not drive manufacturing, manufacturing does not drive sales and marketing, so it doesn't really make sense.
00:21:34.400 -->
00:21:36.559If you wanted to do this, you'd do it the other way around.
00:21:36.799 -->
00:21:43.279But also there is a real issue with, for example, so innovation, new product introductions every year, that's great.
00:21:43.440 -->
00:21:50.880But if 90% of these are paid by insurers, it's gonna be up to the code acceptance for you to actually get money for those new products, right?
00:21:51.039 -->
00:21:51.440That's right.
00:21:51.680 -->
00:21:56.240Manufacturing, you know, it could be a pure cost thing if we look at it in this sense in this graph, right?
00:21:56.400 -->
00:22:02.720Rather than it being something that drives your innovation or something that the the The that makes it cheaper all the time or something like that, right?
00:22:02.960 -->
00:22:03.359Yep.
00:22:03.680 -->
00:22:08.160Sales and marketing is just average sales and marketing is just kind of like you have to do it, kind of like HR.
00:22:08.240 -->
00:22:10.240So we have to have it because everybody else does.
00:22:10.400 -->
00:22:16.079And it doesn't like it would be nice to see here like how these kind of different elements reinforce each other.
00:22:16.480 -->
00:22:21.519We're best at manufacturing, so we have the highest quality, and that keeps our patients happy, right?
00:22:21.680 -->
00:22:24.720And our patients then recommend ourselves so we have lower sales and marketing costs.
00:22:24.880 -->
00:22:27.200Ta-da, we outperform people, you know, something like that, right?
00:22:27.759 -->
00:22:30.400That to me is the things I always look for as a story.
00:22:30.480 -->
00:22:31.839It's nice in an annual report.
00:22:32.000 -->
00:22:37.039Also, these are the kind of things where like, ah, wait, I believe now you can outperform your peers, right?
00:22:37.680 -->
00:22:42.960I I believe now you've you've hit upon a method where you can continue to do better.
00:22:43.119 -->
00:22:45.680You have something that looks like it could be the beginning of a strategy.
00:22:45.759 -->
00:22:51.759And and then this kind of thing, this business model thing, it just seems like, oh yeah, we like patience and we do marketing.
00:22:51.839 -->
00:22:53.119It's like, okay, okay.
00:22:53.279 -->
00:22:54.880But how are you doing this better?
00:22:54.960 -->
00:22:57.680Or how are you able to better compete than other people?
00:22:57.839 -->
00:22:59.359You know, this is the thing I'm missing from here.
00:22:59.519 -->
00:23:00.319Yeah, yeah.
00:23:00.559 -->
00:23:10.640Well, this this is there's a lot here on this slide, and this talks about the if you would say that not the demographics, but who is receiving this?
00:23:11.440 -->
00:23:26.960Um, 70% of all lower limb amputations are due to vascular related diseases, 20% due to trauma, 10% else, and then for the upper limb, 70% trauma, 30% something else.
00:23:27.279 -->
00:23:30.160What is there something else then for for the upper limb amputations?
00:23:30.400 -->
00:23:36.000You know, that's like it could be like people that are born without uh arms.
00:23:36.240 -->
00:23:37.680I don't know what the other would be.
00:23:37.759 -->
00:23:40.079That's a it's a because it's a sizable percentage, right?
00:23:40.160 -->
00:23:42.880I mean, I'm thinking on the left side is like 10%.
00:23:43.279 -->
00:23:45.519Okay, I guess that would be congenital or whatever.
00:23:45.680 -->
00:23:47.680But but it says it calls for the amputations, right?
00:23:47.759 -->
00:23:48.799Not for the patients, right?
00:23:48.960 -->
00:23:49.119Yep.
00:23:49.279 -->
00:23:50.960So I'm just saying if it's not trauma, what is it?
00:23:51.039 -->
00:23:51.359Cancer?
00:23:51.440 -->
00:23:52.079Is that not trauma?
00:23:52.960 -->
00:23:53.119I know.
00:23:53.279 -->
00:23:55.839So yeah, it's like, okay, so what part when does it become trauma?
00:23:56.079 -->
00:23:56.480Yeah, exactly.
00:23:57.039 -->
00:23:57.359Yeah, yeah.
00:23:57.599 -->
00:23:59.119All right, anyway, that's a bit confusing.
00:23:59.279 -->
00:24:03.279But but but but okay, but hey, it shocked me again how old the population is.
00:24:03.359 -->
00:24:04.000That's crazy.
00:24:04.240 -->
00:24:04.799That's right here.
00:24:04.960 -->
00:24:11.759So but this also means that you don't need running blades and fast stuff.
00:24:12.000 -->
00:24:23.039Like, this is the population that you're trying to serve, and that's not necessarily the stuff that you're seeing on TV and people, you know, hiking through the woods, running, that sort of thing.
00:24:23.200 -->
00:24:34.400And so and I think throughout the report, you're gonna start seeing that they understand that this population is aging and they need to reach it in potentially another way.
00:24:34.640 -->
00:24:41.279Now, you would gloss over this, but 30 to 40 percent of new amputees are fitted with prosthetic solutions.
00:24:41.440 -->
00:24:42.960So, what do you think that means, Yoris?
00:24:43.359 -->
00:24:45.519That would there's not being well, I I I don't know.
00:24:45.759 -->
00:24:46.720What do you mean the cause?
00:24:46.799 -->
00:24:47.279I don't know, actually.
00:24:48.400 -->
00:24:50.079So, like what happened to the other 60%?
00:24:50.559 -->
00:24:52.799So that means that there is there you go.
00:24:52.960 -->
00:24:58.799So this is no, but this is like, and we saw their markets, these are people focusing on the rich countries in the world, right?
00:24:58.880 -->
00:25:02.400So we're not talking about like I'm in Mali, I can't buy it, right?
00:25:02.480 -->
00:25:06.720So so we're talking like we're talking about like this is the they're they're considering their market.
00:25:06.799 -->
00:25:09.759So they're they're looking at like everybody or everybody's like.
00:25:10.000 -->
00:25:11.039So this is a global market.
00:25:11.119 -->
00:25:21.920No, so that what they're saying is that out of a hundred percent of anybody that gets an amputation worldwide, only 30 forty to forty percent are being fit with prosthetic solutions.
00:25:22.240 -->
00:25:23.359So crazy.
00:25:23.599 -->
00:25:35.039It is crazy, but it also does show that there is obviously room for improvement, but how do you reach those other 60% and monetize?
00:25:35.359 -->
00:25:35.759Yeah.
00:25:36.000 -->
00:25:38.000Uh, and that's that's that's a hard one.
00:25:38.319 -->
00:25:39.680And not cannibalize yourself.
00:25:39.839 -->
00:25:44.160Because I'm pretty sure that if they got their heads all together, they could come up with a solution for those other people.
00:25:44.400 -->
00:25:47.359But it's an astounding group of population, you know?
00:25:47.519 -->
00:25:47.839Mm-hmm.
00:25:48.000 -->
00:25:49.920It's an astounding also market opportunity.
00:25:50.000 -->
00:26:00.000But we talked about this last year when discovering this, when it was like, if we just did a lot better in Indonesia or something, you know, these count there's all these countries like where there's a hundred million people living in that country and they have no market access.
00:26:00.160 -->
00:26:03.599So I do think that this is like, you know, it you know, look at the cell phones, right?
00:26:03.680 -->
00:26:08.559Cell phones have done wonders for for people in underprivileged, uh, remote, austere kind of environments.
00:26:08.720 -->
00:26:12.079Nobody set out to, well, you know, a lot of these companies are just set out to make money.
00:26:12.160 -->
00:26:19.599But at one point they did make a cheap version that did trickle down and that did actually uh really make meaningful it changed these people's lives.
00:26:19.759 -->
00:26:24.880But it in prosthetics, it doesn't seem it seems like we've got charities and then we'll focus on the rich people, you know.
00:26:25.759 -->
00:26:26.319Right, right.
00:26:26.480 -->
00:26:37.599And it's it's really strange to me that a company wouldn't be like, okay, let's make an affordable lower limb process just for the other, you know, you know, the other uh 60% of the market.
00:26:38.480 -->
00:26:40.640It's it's completely crazy if you think about it.
00:26:40.880 -->
00:26:41.279Yeah.
00:26:41.519 -->
00:26:45.119So it would be like like I'm only gonna make like the iPhone and that's it.
00:26:45.359 -->
00:26:46.000Yeah.
00:26:46.319 -->
00:26:50.240Um yeah, it could work, but but for most companies it's it's not gonna ever work, right?
00:26:50.319 -->
00:26:52.960To just only have the flagship products.
00:26:53.119 -->
00:26:56.240It would be like kind of, yeah, only have the flagship products be sold to the few.
00:26:56.400 -->
00:27:01.519That works for for well, it used to work for Porsche, but uh but but that works for like luxury brands, right?
00:27:01.599 -->
00:27:01.920Mm-hmm.
00:27:02.079 -->
00:27:02.960Luxury brands do that.
00:27:03.200 -->
00:27:07.680RMS says we're only signed to certain people that want to you know spend 500 bucks on a tie.
00:27:07.759 -->
00:27:14.559It's never, you know, we make them in France, because we do it ourselves, and that's you know, and we only have a limited number, and look at us, we're luxury products.
00:27:14.960 -->
00:27:20.240They don't want to make an affordable one, because that's kind of the the whole point of them being MS association, right?
00:27:20.319 -->
00:27:20.480Yeah.
00:27:20.799 -->
00:27:25.119Um, but you know, is is a prosthetic to me isn't a luxury product.
00:27:25.279 -->
00:27:27.759Cars, there is a lower limit of the car thing.
00:27:27.839 -->
00:27:39.039You have to all of a sudden say, hey, with the quality, the pension funds, all the stuff we have, we we have a lower limit of we we have to get, you know, we have to sell cars above 30k or something, because otherwise it doesn't make sense for us to do it as a company, right?
00:27:39.200 -->
00:27:41.440But as a prosthetic, there isn't that barrier either.
00:27:41.519 -->
00:27:42.079You know what I mean?
00:27:42.240 -->
00:27:43.440So it's not a luxury good.
00:27:43.599 -->
00:27:50.480It isn't hasn't have a real technical or or manufacturing infrastructure barrier like a car company has or cost structure barrier.
00:27:50.640 -->
00:27:51.839So why not do this?
00:27:52.000 -->
00:27:58.319You know, is it is it, you know, also as just like not as a yours cuddly person yours, like save the world or whatever.
00:27:58.400 -->
00:28:01.839No, just as a like imagine you're a shareholder and imagine you just want these guys to make money.
00:28:02.000 -->
00:28:06.160Well, hey guys, let's make stuff for the 60% of the people that aren't being served, you know?
00:28:06.400 -->
00:28:07.119Yeah, yeah.
00:28:07.359 -->
00:28:10.319So I thought this was it's just an interesting way to put it.
00:28:10.480 -->
00:28:16.559You know, like when you take look at these graphs and then you like you read this and you're like, ugh, okay, so what does that actually mean?
00:28:16.720 -->
00:28:20.319So this, so this is another one of these things that is very interesting.
00:28:20.480 -->
00:28:27.440It's like, what did you write that you needed to say, but you didn't necessarily want people to think about it much?
00:28:27.599 -->
00:28:41.279And this is this right here, this underscores the potential opportunities in catering to the needs of chronic patients who need lifelong service and explains why 70 to 80 percent of the patient care revenue is recurring.
00:28:41.519 -->
00:28:47.519So so what this means is that it's almost like the pharmaceutical industry now.
00:28:47.680 -->
00:28:58.079Like, if if we get you on this drug, the the lifetime value of this patient, because they're gonna keep on using it, is X amount.
00:28:58.240 -->
00:29:04.319And therefore, we need to make sure that we keep this patient, which can be very good patient care, right?
00:29:04.400 -->
00:29:07.359Or and very good patient or uh customer service.
00:29:07.599 -->
00:29:18.960But the fact that the the idea is how do we keep this patient in the ecosystem because the recurring revenue is so important to us is very, very interesting.
00:29:19.200 -->
00:29:20.960Yeah, it's there's two ways of explaining this.
00:29:21.119 -->
00:29:23.599One is a very bad one and one is a very, very good one, right?
00:29:23.759 -->
00:29:24.000Yeah.
00:29:24.079 -->
00:29:27.440So the the non-suspicious person is like, oh my god, they're amazing.
00:29:27.519 -->
00:29:28.480So they keep paying back.
00:29:28.559 -->
00:29:33.440And then the yeah, we should we should do operate slower on patients, you know?
00:29:34.079 -->
00:29:36.240The best patients would never leave the hospital.
00:29:36.559 -->
00:29:41.279So let me see what the next thing was that I was wanting to.
00:29:41.680 -->
00:29:43.359So this is where we were talking about.
00:29:43.440 -->
00:29:47.200So they're really going after this this branding with the emblem medical.
00:29:47.440 -->
00:29:48.240What do you do?
00:29:48.400 -->
00:29:49.920We have these patient care.
00:29:50.319 -->
00:29:53.920One thing on the previous slide is one thing I noticed is they do some soft stuff in China.
00:29:54.000 -->
00:29:57.680So that's probably like a bracing or like some pillow, kind of whatever thing.
00:29:57.920 -->
00:30:00.160Yeah, some of their bracing, I would say like knee braces.
00:30:00.559 -->
00:30:05.599Everything else is made in Mexico and uh Germany, Scotland, and the US, uh place like that.
00:30:05.759 -->
00:30:07.119So that's actually kind of very interesting.
00:30:07.279 -->
00:30:10.079They haven't outsourced everything crazily.
00:30:10.240 -->
00:30:18.640And if they have outsourced it, they've uh outsourced it, which we talked about before, like to very close to the biggest market, which seems to be a really, really s very smart thing to do.
00:30:18.799 -->
00:30:34.960So this is really interesting because they could save a lot more money if they push a lot of that stuff to to to China, but they've decided not to do this, which I think short term doesn't look too bright, but long term I think could be a really, really good decision as it allows uh it would let let less of their knowledge and ability and uh IP leak out, you know.
00:30:35.119 -->
00:30:35.680Yeah, yeah.
00:30:35.759 -->
00:30:49.200That IP side of things is is very interesting, especially like if you were to look at Chinese manufacturers that do prosthetics, it is like complete, almost like nut to bolt ripoff of what other big companies are doing.
00:30:49.279 -->
00:30:56.240So making sure that you don't have all the secret sauce somewhere and allow somebody to reverse engineer your stuff is I think pretty important.
00:30:57.200 -->
00:31:00.319Um so I think one of this is this is pretty interesting.
00:31:00.480 -->
00:31:12.079They're looking for a two to three percent annual growth on these uh acquisitions uh from from that.
00:31:12.799 -->
00:31:28.319Um and then on this one, the we touched on it, but the chronic mobility challenges, making sure that we're taking care of the older people is super important.
00:31:28.720 -->
00:31:30.079So this is interesting.
00:31:30.559 -->
00:31:36.079Increased bionic penetration among low activity or low active patients.
00:31:36.240 -->
00:31:43.759So what they're saying is that some of these higher dollar value ones may not be right now covered.
00:31:44.000 -->
00:31:49.200So in in the US, there's a system of levels of how active you are.
00:31:49.519 -->
00:31:52.480For instance, it goes from K0 to K4.
00:31:52.799 -->
00:31:54.799And I don't know that we've ever talked about this, Yoris.
00:31:54.880 -->
00:31:55.519So I'll tell you.
00:31:55.680 -->
00:31:58.160K0 means no idea what this is, so no, we haven't.
00:31:58.559 -->
00:32:06.400So K0 means that you are not going anywhere, you are bedridden, that no, there is zero need for a prosthesis.
00:32:06.640 -->
00:32:13.680K1 means that you might use a prosthesis, say for a transfer, maybe to get you a couple steps to the car, something like that.
00:32:14.000 -->
00:32:29.680K2 is like you maybe in a nursing home, you walk like one speed, you know, here or there, you use the prosthesis for your everyday task, but you're not really it like going all out.
00:32:29.839 -->
00:32:36.319Like this is uh this and most older people, this is what they're saying, low active, fall into that position.
00:32:36.400 -->
00:32:44.319And then your K3, not only can I walk, I can walk at different speeds, I can go over uneven terrain, and that's where a lot of the more active people fall.
00:32:44.400 -->
00:32:48.400And then K4, like, I'm gonna jump out of an airplane, I'm gonna do running.
00:32:48.480 -->
00:32:50.480Like these are the highest of the high.
00:32:50.720 -->
00:32:57.680But what's interesting is that for billing purposes, there's really no difference between K3 and K4.
00:32:58.079 -->
00:33:06.799So a lot of people or some some people just say, well, why would I even put K4 if it doesn't actually get me something extra?
00:33:07.359 -->
00:33:10.079And uh I actually agree with that sentiment.
00:33:10.240 -->
00:33:12.720But those are the those are the categories.
00:33:12.880 -->
00:33:18.400But what happens is that components that you sell are divided up into these categories.
00:33:18.480 -->
00:33:31.519So K1 and K they have a certain, you can pull from a certain and bill a certain amount of components, and then K3, you get that kind of opens up another box that is more expensive.
00:33:31.680 -->
00:33:52.240But what has happened over the years is that some of the expensive components, for instance, the microprocessor knees, which we saw that they had released too, are now being approved for older people because they are safer, they're smarter, they keep people from falling and breaking their hip, and therefore, in the long run, it can save money.
00:33:52.400 -->
00:34:05.680So what they're saying here is we need more of the expensive stuff in this lower or low active population, which means that there is more money, which that's where the majority of your population is.
00:34:05.759 -->
00:34:12.239And so, how do you get the stuff that you already make so you can sell to the thing where the largest population is?
00:34:12.480 -->
00:34:18.960Yeah, and we expect that population to grow well beyond what the MPT population is, of course, right?
00:34:19.199 -->
00:34:19.599Yep.
00:34:19.760 -->
00:34:20.159Yep.
00:34:20.320 -->
00:34:22.320So it feels like we're never gonna get through this thing.
00:34:22.400 -->
00:34:24.320We're on page 18 out of 139.
00:34:24.400 -->
00:34:28.719So we're gonna we're gonna uh do one, two, skip a few uh here.
00:34:28.880 -->
00:34:29.840So we talked about the market.
00:34:32.159 -->
00:34:34.320Yeah, we're still on 2025.
00:34:36.480 -->
00:34:40.079Let me see where so this is where things get interesting.
00:34:40.239 -->
00:34:40.880Where's that?
00:34:41.039 -->
00:34:41.44018.
00:34:42.000 -->
00:34:47.519Okay, so this is that neuroorthotics product market, 10 to 12% market growth.
00:34:47.679 -->
00:34:50.880I thought that was um, you know, pretty interesting.
00:34:50.960 -->
00:34:56.639It's a market that you don't you didn't have, and now you're starting to grow that even more.
00:34:56.880 -->
00:34:59.920So this one is interesting as well.
00:35:00.079 -->
00:35:08.639So Emblem Medical is estimated to be the third or fourth largest company operating in the market with a market share of around two percent.
00:35:08.960 -->
00:35:10.880Well, where where's that?
00:35:11.280 -->
00:35:16.079Uh this is page, uh, this is page 20, kind of right in the middle, right here.
00:35:16.320 -->
00:35:17.199Okay, okay, yeah.
00:35:17.440 -->
00:35:27.679So what's interesting is there's that means that you've got, you know, hanger, Audubok, or equal, and then you have the independence.
00:35:27.920 -->
00:35:32.880And so you you think of like Emble as this big company, but they only make up two percent.
00:35:33.039 -->
00:35:38.719So what that means is there's there's plenty of room for acquisitions, I guess is what I'm saying.
00:35:38.960 -->
00:35:40.800But it's also a very small market share.
00:35:40.880 -->
00:35:41.599I thought that was interesting.
00:35:41.679 -->
00:35:55.119Yeah, but it's it's a it's a worrying sign that if they look so much like if if 30% of the revenue comes from this, they're only a 2% player, 3.53%, let's say it's a 5% a year growth market, and they can they know there's independent operators that are retiring all the time.
00:35:55.280 -->
00:35:58.320People are gonna retire and they wan the they're they w wanna sell their business.
00:35:58.480 -->
00:36:04.400There's no natural uh uh kind of company to do this at the time, apart from them and hanger.
00:36:04.559 -->
00:36:10.400And and they want to improve their evident margins, then yeah, it seems like it's like, well, just keep buying clinics, you know what I mean?
00:36:10.480 -->
00:36:16.320And I think I think that's just gonna mean that a lot of your revenue is gonna be directed at buying more revenue.
00:36:16.639 -->
00:36:19.920We've seen this go go go very, very wrong in the outer manufacturing market.
00:36:21.039 -->
00:36:28.480And and that would mean maybe that you would be starving the the innovation animal that is gonna like you know, lock up capital to invent new stuff.
00:36:28.719 -->
00:36:37.039So I think that kind of, you know, that's a uh a bit of a worrisome sign if they really did go more into this kind of a acquisition of these clinics.
00:36:37.280 -->
00:36:37.519Yeah.
00:36:37.679 -->
00:36:39.039So this is interesting.
00:36:39.119 -->
00:36:40.800The they talk about the growth.
00:36:40.960 -->
00:36:42.239This is right here.
00:36:42.480 -->
00:36:49.280Approximately 80% of all new amputees live in emerging markets, and it only represents a small share of Emblem's Medical.
00:36:49.440 -->
00:36:52.000And I think they actually state it here.
00:36:52.159 -->
00:36:58.960Yeah, so to develop markets, 5 million amputees, 200,000 new every year, 650,000 new every year in the emerging markets.
00:36:59.119 -->
00:37:04.639So this is, you know, all and this is interesting, Russia not included.
00:37:06.159 -->
00:37:08.800Yeah, I think that that I think that's actually really nice.
00:37:09.039 -->
00:37:09.679Is right.
00:37:10.000 -->
00:37:18.079I mean, this is definitely a differentiator from a company like Autobock, because Autobok does sell into Russia and they make a lot of money in Russia and they don't care.
00:37:18.159 -->
00:37:18.320Yeah.
00:37:18.639 -->
00:37:19.519So there you go.
00:37:19.760 -->
00:37:24.239Yeah, I think ethically that's like yeah, that's it's still really difficult because yes, there are patients there, right?
00:37:24.320 -->
00:37:27.840Uh but ethically selling anything into Russia at the moment is is not a great thing, I think.
00:37:28.079 -->
00:37:28.480Yeah.
00:37:28.639 -->
00:37:29.039Yep.
00:37:29.280 -->
00:37:49.280Um okay, so on 26, they t they do talk about the um what's interesting, so they talk a little bit about digitization and AI, but they don't hit a lot on additive manufacturing, at least from what I saw.
00:37:49.440 -->
00:37:54.480But uh, you know they have it because they've got companies like Naked Prosthetics and some other ones.
00:37:54.559 -->
00:38:03.599But I think this is also another situation where they also are significantly entrenched in the traditional fabrication market, which is a big time money maker for them.
00:38:03.760 -->
00:38:11.199And there's not really a reason to innovate in the 3D printing space because they're making so much money otherwise.
00:38:11.360 -->
00:38:17.199So I mentioned that have on it is on in this page, it's on the AeroFit liner with the 3D printed silicone in it.
00:38:17.360 -->
00:38:18.000Yeah.
00:38:18.639 -->
00:38:21.920Which we think that I think could grow significantly, right?
00:38:22.000 -->
00:38:32.000If they look at these liner kind of solutions and silicone 3D printing in a much more kind of expansive way, they could really be coming up with a bunch of products that just make that interface better.
00:38:32.239 -->
00:38:42.559And then 3D printing is a very, very uh logical kind of way to use this and to use it on the skin in a kind of way to to to relieve heat and all that kind of stuff.
00:38:42.639 -->
00:38:44.000I I really like that as a product.
00:38:44.079 -->
00:38:53.519I really think that that's something they could be deploying much more broadly, let's say if they do master the silicon 3D printing stuff, but I still don't know what they're using, by the way, uh what technology they're using.
00:38:53.599 -->
00:38:58.400Uh and uh but the idea is just to make more breathable salt sockets in part through silicon 3D printing.
00:38:58.480 -->
00:39:00.800I think is a really great application of the technologies.
00:39:01.360 -->
00:39:15.519Yeah, they don't seem to be doing a lot, but what they are doing kind of makes sense and is kind of where you want to use additive, rather than you know, imaging it some flashy way that's not really gonna mean be meaningful for uh patients or meaningful for for yourself.
00:39:15.679 -->
00:39:18.719So I think, you know, I think I think what they are doing is seems to be quite smart.
00:39:18.880 -->
00:39:19.119Yeah.
00:39:19.360 -->
00:39:20.159This is interesting.
00:39:20.239 -->
00:39:21.679They're sales by segment.
00:39:21.840 -->
00:39:29.679So the prosthetics and neuroorthotics, 10% growth, bracing, negative 1%, and then patient care is 1%.
00:39:30.239 -->
00:39:38.159So all that's saying is that this patient care side of things is a little bit more probably difficult than what they had expected.
00:39:38.320 -->
00:39:40.400So there's plenty of room for growth here.
00:39:40.719 -->
00:39:45.920And this whole but this patient care thing is really very focused on the states and kind of Europe, right?
00:39:46.079 -->
00:39:46.480Yes.
00:39:46.719 -->
00:39:47.199Yep.
00:39:48.719 -->
00:40:02.639Um, so the EBITDA of 186 million, and they talk a little bit about some tariffs and such, and there's definitely some uncertainty, but it seems like that isn't a big part of what they're calculating.
00:40:02.960 -->
00:40:05.440So a couple other interesting things.
00:40:05.599 -->
00:40:22.400We're gonna skip down actually a little bit to so it's just funny when you take a look at this, these some of these risks assessments, they do talk about uh corruption bribery and a reimbursement changes um are material risks.
00:40:22.639 -->
00:40:28.559So it's just uh it's an interesting thing to talk about, especially when you're dealing with a global company.
00:40:28.639 -->
00:40:36.239And it's and just like what you said before, it's a great report, it's a transparent report, and I think it's it's really great that they include that in there.
00:40:37.440 -->
00:40:38.960Um let me get that.
00:40:39.360 -->
00:40:40.880They also they also they talked about that.
00:40:40.960 -->
00:40:45.280I did a share buyback program in 2025, they're gonna do another one in 2026.
00:40:46.559 -->
00:40:55.679And that again is like, you know, if money's super cheap and you're Apple and you're never gonna get that much cheap money in the rest of your life, you know, then maybe it makes sense.
00:40:56.000 -->
00:41:02.079But for most people, like the share buyback is is not a sign of like very inventive management, you know what I mean?
00:41:02.159 -->
00:41:05.360Or very inventive kind of, hey, we can do great things with our own capital.
00:41:05.519 -->
00:41:14.960We're just gonna buy shares to um have a short-term effect that's great for whoever has options, but maybe not so wonderful for for for you know the company building a future for itself.
00:41:15.039 -->
00:41:17.920I always think I'm I'm a bit paranoid when I see share buybacks.
00:41:18.000 -->
00:41:21.360I'm always like, this is really good for 18 months and not good for 18 years, you know?
00:41:21.679 -->
00:41:23.440So I'm always a bit paranoid when I see that.
00:41:23.679 -->
00:41:24.000Okay.
00:41:24.159 -->
00:41:25.760So this is where things get interesting.
00:41:25.920 -->
00:41:29.039We we did one two skip 60 pages.
00:41:30.159 -->
00:41:30.719Okay, okay.
00:41:30.960 -->
00:41:35.199But these these these small words are always interesting.
00:41:35.440 -->
00:41:39.280Okay, and we're rare on so I can find it 106.
00:41:39.599 -->
00:41:41.920And this is the independent auditors report.
00:41:42.239 -->
00:41:42.400Yeah.
00:41:42.960 -->
00:41:45.280All right, so this is interesting.
00:41:45.440 -->
00:41:55.039This idea of impairment of goodwill, the book value of goodwill at the year end amounted to 600 or 836 million dollars.
00:41:55.280 -->
00:41:56.960So why is that important?
00:41:57.119 -->
00:42:07.920And something to to to take into consideration is what they're saying is when you buy a company, you're you're buying their name as well.
00:42:08.079 -->
00:42:19.119And so what they're saying is there's a potential that we're overpaying for companies, or it's gonna take us a long time to get this goodwill kind of off of our books.
00:42:19.440 -->
00:42:31.440Yeah, maybe, maybe, but I think this is could be, you know, we have had companies take a hit with this, SM Solutions took a hit with this, where they really adjusted it downward really, really spectacularly at one point.
00:42:31.599 -->
00:42:32.719Uh so this is something to track.
00:42:32.800 -->
00:42:42.639I think, I think, you know, this is like it's not necessarily a very it's it's maybe just like there's there's the note number 33, which we would have to look into to really look uh deeper into this.
00:42:42.960 -->
00:42:43.599Yeah, right.
00:42:44.320 -->
00:42:46.400So I think yeah.
00:42:46.480 -->
00:42:55.519So I think what's interesting about this, and we see this all the time, really, is you want a business to be incorporated in your vertical strategy.
00:42:55.760 -->
00:43:07.280And you're going to pay them, you know, market, maybe a little bit above market or a lot above market to make sure that they're part of your kind of philosophy and company for an extended period of time.
00:43:07.519 -->
00:43:10.159So it doesn't mean that they've overpaid.
00:43:10.320 -->
00:43:18.960It's just something that this idea of buying goodwill with not assets behind it is something notable.
00:43:19.360 -->
00:43:29.760Well, I think it's it's very important because like we saw that I think I don't remember what what is exactly wrote off on the Makerbot acquisition, but it was more than they paid for makeup.
00:43:31.360 -->
00:43:31.440Sure.
00:43:31.599 -->
00:43:31.679Sure.
00:43:32.880 -->
00:43:35.760But they had it, they they they wrote that the that whole thing.
00:43:35.840 -->
00:43:38.079They kind of wrote that off on the Makerbot acquisition.
00:43:38.159 -->
00:43:40.400They wrote off like hundreds of millions of dollars on that.
00:43:40.559 -->
00:43:42.639And that was also a goodwill kind of reduction as well.
00:43:42.719 -->
00:43:50.000So so so I think it's an important thing to a be careful with if you're a company accounting for that, and and also to be careful with as an acquisition partner as well.
00:43:50.239 -->
00:43:50.480Yeah.
00:43:50.639 -->
00:43:59.760So all I'm saying is not not necessarily good news for people that are looking to sell to a company like Embla in that they're they're bean counters.
00:44:00.159 -->
00:44:12.639Or their accountants or the person that the people that are doing this, they know that this is already on the books, and they're going to be very, very careful not to overpay for the quote unquote goodwill that your company may have.
00:44:12.960 -->
00:44:16.239But it can also be just accountants being careful, which is good for accountants to be.
00:44:16.639 -->
00:44:17.599That's what you pay them.
00:44:18.639 -->
00:44:19.280Yeah, I totally.
00:44:21.280 -->
00:44:25.039It also I can't find this mysterious note 33, which everything refers to again.
00:44:25.199 -->
00:44:32.000So that that's also kind of and that does actually explain some of these actual impairments and what they're doing with these companies.
00:44:32.079 -->
00:44:33.360So and I can't find it anywhere.
00:44:33.440 -->
00:44:35.840So it's it's probably me, but uh I can't find it right now.
00:44:36.079 -->
00:44:36.400Okay.
00:44:36.559 -->
00:44:44.320So and then the the really the last thing is you you have your EBITDA, and then it's the also is what are what are your liabilities?
00:44:44.480 -->
00:44:55.519And then so it looks like somewhere in the neighborhood of six hundred and thirty million dollars of being leveraged of some sort, which you know, if you're making money, it doesn't doesn't matter.
00:44:55.679 -->
00:45:08.800So I think it's but I think like what we've said before, having all this, and I know they probably have to be even more because they're uh an Icelandic company, uh it's very, very transparent.
00:45:10.000 -->
00:45:11.679I I think it's I think it's good.
00:45:11.920 -->
00:45:22.800I mean, my my big takeaways from this 139-page report is uh growth is happening.
00:45:22.880 -->
00:45:25.599Uh we are moving forward with some technology.
00:45:25.760 -->
00:45:34.639I find it interesting that additive manufacturing isn't mentioned much in this, but we know that they're doing it.
00:45:35.440 -->
00:45:53.119And um, you know, I think it's also interesting where that you're still able to have uh 20% EBITDA uh even after acquiring so many companies and being involved in the patient care side of things.
00:45:53.280 -->
00:46:07.760So I think after that the patient care side of thing gets stabilized and they truly start recognizing revenue after they start buying from themselves, I really foresee these numbers to keep on going up.
00:46:08.159 -->
00:46:15.440I'm I'm like kind of like it looks like a company that that is doing what it's doing, but doesn't necessarily have a really great path forward.
00:46:15.599 -->
00:46:16.639To us, it's really obvious.
00:46:17.119 -->
00:46:30.800I think it's we both would just say, hey, let's look at these poor people everywhere as a market, make a product that looks them straight in the eye and treats them as as customers and delivers on value, and let's let's tackle that other uh the other hundreds of millions of patients.
00:46:30.960 -->
00:46:33.440That to me seems like a really, really logical thing to do.
00:46:33.599 -->
00:46:39.920And maybe they're worried that then, you know, some insurer in the US is gonna say, hey, if you can make that foot there for a hundred bucks, so why do we why are we paying a grand?
00:46:40.239 -->
00:46:47.840Um so I think that that that I think is the the the one issue they should tackle because that could really give them instant access to a a much larger patient population.
00:46:48.000 -->
00:47:01.920And let's not forget, like we keep coming up with these things where even in the in a rich country like the United States of America, there's maybe people that would want an extra leg or want a swimming leg that don't have it, or that want another prosthesis for work or whatever, they're not paying it.
00:47:02.000 -->
00:47:18.559So so there isn't an additional if we'd make those things cheaper for patients to buy extra stuff, if we'd make then more people in the in the developed world, let's say, would also buy multiple prosthetic uh devices or different devices for different occasions to to make their life a little bit easier as well.
00:47:18.639 -->
00:47:20.960So so that's the most obvious thing to be doing, you know.
00:47:21.119 -->
00:47:28.079The other stuff, innovation, always hard, and then, you know, and and you know, and and also expensive, right?
00:47:28.159 -->
00:47:28.880And also unsure.
00:47:29.119 -->
00:47:33.679Uh, and then also just like uh there's this revenue acquiring machine, like let's put our clinics everywhere.
00:47:33.760 -->
00:47:42.639And it just seems like if they're gonna go this way and they're doing the share buybacks, it just seems to me it's like, yeah, we're just gonna buy clinics, but we're gonna be a bit more careful with it now, you know?
00:47:42.960 -->
00:47:43.840You know what I mean?
00:47:44.400 -->
00:47:55.599And there's just gonna be some MA guy flying up and down the country and and there's gonna be like a uh a big clinic, but it's like a hanger than with some some many more manufacturing and then hanger has attached or more branded products than hanger houses, you know what I mean?
00:47:55.760 -->
00:47:56.079Yeah.
00:47:56.239 -->
00:48:01.039And I think that to me is is is kind of um interesting.
00:48:01.280 -->
00:48:04.159I would focus much more on the poor people and then the bracing stuff.
00:48:04.239 -->
00:48:17.280If you could bring really super mega high uh tech braces to people, like using 3D printed silicone and air systems and all this kind of stuff, if you can make that kind of thing, if you could be the role source of that kind of thing, that kind of thing.
00:48:17.360 -->
00:48:22.480There's people spend a ton of money on that, the kind of running as a hobby, recovering, these kind of things.
00:48:22.719 -->
00:48:37.599There really isn't like if you look at these uh anything for these braces and these tapes, usually there's like one really boring version available in your local pharmacy, or there's maybe kind of a local kind of like shoals kind of alternative, like maybe some local company offers you kind of a little bit of expensive one.
00:48:37.679 -->
00:48:39.440There's no real Rolls Royce with this, you know.
00:48:39.599 -->
00:48:49.119And to me, it'd be really tempting to say, well, this one's a hundred dollar, the other one's a 30, but hey, it has a 3D print air in it or something, uh, and it will help you recover 20% faster, something like that, you know?
00:48:49.360 -->
00:48:53.119And then uh, you know, you get some basketball players to wear it on the court, you know.
00:48:53.360 -->
00:48:54.880To me, that's the way I would go.
00:48:54.960 -->
00:48:59.840I would uh I'd say let's tackle this poor people problem and and and see it as a market, you know?
00:49:00.079 -->
00:49:18.079And the problem is that it inhibits our revenue, and let's get some uh, you know, really famous basketball players to uh wear a bright orange brace that is pumped up, right, just like the the reebok was, and has 3D printing inside of it and make it ridiculously expensive, and then people will start using the brace of the basketball players who use, you know, something like that.
00:49:18.400 -->
00:49:24.159That to me would would be a way to consumerize the offering and give them a lot of revenue.
00:49:24.320 -->
00:49:30.000Because there's a ton of people I know that have braces or or that that keep messing up their knee or they keep doing this stuff like that.
00:49:30.079 -->
00:49:33.519And I think that's just a a huge market where there, you know, there isn't a super premium.
00:49:33.599 -->
00:49:36.880You know, people are buying sweaters for 300 bucks or even more than that.
00:49:37.039 -->
00:49:43.360People are buying, you know, one of the things was like if people can sell you premium tequila, people can sell you premium everything.
00:49:43.679 -->
00:49:44.239Right.
00:49:44.800 -->
00:49:52.079If that works for people, then there's no reason why there's like one brace available and it looks like it was designed in the 40s, you know?
00:49:52.480 -->
00:50:02.639It should be there should be an option there to, at least in a lot of pharmacies or a lot of hospitals or a lot of like uh appropriate doctor's offices, have like, you know, this is the best thing, sir.
00:50:02.800 -->
00:50:09.280Because there's a lot of people that that would just buy that best thing if it would help them recover a little bit faster or would be a little bit more comfortable, you know?
00:50:09.440 -->
00:50:09.679Right.
00:50:09.840 -->
00:50:14.000Uh to me, that's where I would really pursue growth and I'd wait for the US thing to sort itself out.
00:50:14.079 -->
00:50:17.199And I'd I'd try to focus more time on that innovation thing.
00:50:17.440 -->
00:50:23.679Companies always say that innovation is hard, and but companies don't pay a lot, uh they don't don't really devote a lot of money on it.
00:50:23.920 -->
00:50:29.280There's there's only very few companies that devote a lot of money on RD, and it's it's it's a very difficult thing to spend.
00:50:29.360 -->
00:50:32.159And even like medical companies sometimes do like three and a half percent or whatever.
00:50:32.320 -->
00:50:33.360So it's not even that much.
00:50:33.519 -->
00:50:39.840I think one of the highest companies I've ever seen is Hilti and they make drills and all sorts of other stuff for concrete people working with concrete.
00:50:40.000 -->
00:50:40.400Yeah.
00:50:40.639 -->
00:51:00.239So, you know, you could do a really innovation-led company, but I think the worst thing is if a company believes it's innovative and really kind of isn't, you know, and that and and it seems to me that they're going from a path of strong IP portfolio and a really strong brand into kind of like, yeah, let's just buy revenue and become like a big service bureau or service provider, you know?
00:51:00.400 -->
00:51:00.639Yeah.
00:51:00.880 -->
00:51:07.760You know, one other thing that I didn't see in this report was much focus on the exoskeleton side of things.
00:51:07.920 -->
00:51:17.519So, like what your example of the Hilti, and I know like Autobach and some other companies are very involved in the the worker side of things.
00:51:17.679 -->
00:51:24.079So, like, how do you hold something above your shoulders to hold something in place on the manufacturing floor?
00:51:24.320 -->
00:51:35.599Or if you're working, like how do you get up from a kind of a bent knee position and where you're gonna be there for a while, but then you need to walk over here and make sure that people don't get tired.
00:51:35.760 -->
00:51:47.039I think it like their envelope would be actually very well positioned to even acquire, say, a small company in that space to do things.
00:51:47.280 -->
00:51:48.800And I think it's interesting.
00:51:48.960 -->
00:51:50.960So this was Yeah, totally.
00:51:51.280 -->
00:51:58.880I think I think that that I think, you know, also to look at just worker, you know, construction industry, worker replaced injuries and all this kind of stuff, safety gear, that kind of stuff.
00:51:59.119 -->
00:52:03.440Exoceleton thing, I don't know if it's gonna work, it's gonna take a lot of time, but that is a huge market.
00:52:03.840 -->
00:52:04.559But yeah, I don't know.
00:52:04.639 -->
00:52:16.880I thought I think I think there's there's there's there's they should work more on on on opening up really opening up new markets generally, whether being an exoskeleton or the developing world or in in in this like bracing with a brand kind of thing.
00:52:17.119 -->
00:52:19.119Because uh, you know, for example, I just looked it up by the way.
00:52:19.199 -->
00:52:23.519Hilti spent 7.3% of their total revenue on RD.
00:52:24.239 -->
00:52:24.559Wow.
00:52:24.719 -->
00:52:27.039And what was their what was their Ebita?
00:52:27.519 -->
00:52:30.480I don't know because it's in a weird currency that I don't understand.
00:52:30.559 -->
00:52:34.079Uh they spent 459 CHF in uh RD.
00:52:34.559 -->
00:52:35.679That's 70.3.
00:52:36.079 -->
00:52:38.639So that's uh we could do the math, or we should be able to do the math.
00:52:38.719 -->
00:52:42.559Uh that'll be 6.3 billion, whatever CHF is.
00:52:42.639 -->
00:52:46.559Um so uh that that's uh Swiss francs, by the way.
00:52:46.719 -->
00:52:49.440And then that's$6.8 billion in in revenue.
00:52:49.679 -->
00:52:50.000Wow.
00:52:50.159 -->
00:52:50.559In drills.
00:52:50.800 -->
00:52:52.639But okay, so this is this is something that's actually really interesting.
00:52:52.719 -->
00:52:53.840I'm obsessed with Hilti, by the way.
00:52:53.920 -->
00:52:55.360It's a completely insane company.
00:52:55.599 -->
00:53:00.159So Hilti, well, you could think you could buy a drill from Hilti, but they don't want to buy it from you, right?
00:53:00.320 -->
00:53:01.760They don't want to sell it to you, right?
00:53:01.920 -->
00:53:07.119What they do is there's a dude with a car and he comes and he'll look at all the tools of theirs that you need.
00:53:07.199 -->
00:53:09.199And sometimes he'll lend you one if he wants to.
00:53:09.280 -->
00:53:11.280This is not like snap on with a truck debt, right?
00:53:11.360 -->
00:53:12.000This is different.
00:53:12.239 -->
00:53:12.559Yeah.
00:53:12.719 -->
00:53:13.039Right?
00:53:13.280 -->
00:53:14.159This is this is different.
00:53:14.320 -->
00:53:21.039So and then they they talk to your boss and they want to lease you all the equipment and they'll replace anything that's stolen and they'll replace all the stuff that doesn't work.
00:53:21.119 -->
00:53:26.639And every once in a while they'll they'll be like, hey, you can lend this really cool vacuum cleaner or whatever for a couple days, and then they hope they lease it as well.
00:53:26.800 -->
00:53:29.119So basically they want you to lease everything from them.
00:53:29.360 -->
00:53:34.159And of course, normally it's better to buy the tool and then have it for what is it, 10 years, right?
00:53:34.239 -->
00:53:36.079Then you're making total lot of money on it.
00:53:36.239 -->
00:53:37.280But there's two smart things.
00:53:37.360 -->
00:53:42.480Is one is, well, you know, you're not gonna have the tool for 10 years because some dude will break it or it'll get lost or get stolen.
00:53:42.639 -->
00:53:42.719Right.
00:53:42.880 -->
00:53:44.800So the risk then goes to Hilti, right?
00:53:44.880 -->
00:53:48.480They then track everything and are better able to deal with this risk.
00:53:48.559 -->
00:53:55.760And of course, because Hilti make really good tools with a lot of RD at really high cost, it actually really makes sense for them to make some things that are really super reliable.
00:53:56.000 -->
00:53:59.840And they're gonna put their money behind it because they'll collect it if it doesn't work and they'll give you a new one.
00:54:00.000 -->
00:54:01.360Like a dude will come in a car.
00:54:01.920 -->
00:54:03.039Uh that's why they're not everywhere.
00:54:03.440 -->
00:54:09.440Maybe the Hilti wouldn't be uh available in your area or the wood, but but uh because they literally have a guy with a car, right?
00:54:09.519 -->
00:54:10.960Uh that comes or a lady.
00:54:11.039 -->
00:54:16.880And uh and she'll then come and then and replace it for you the next day or on the day uh of the job site on the at the job site.
00:54:17.039 -->
00:54:23.440So this of course means that you as a developer or the construction crew, whatever be spending more money, but you have more peace of mind.
00:54:23.599 -->
00:54:30.880And also, of course, you know that that that job or that project will only last for a certain amount of years anyway.
00:54:30.960 -->
00:54:34.320So you're actually kind of not calculating that tool for 10 years, you're calculating it for three.
00:54:34.480 -->
00:54:41.599So for them, it's it's it's very, and especially if they're the guy making the decision doesn't care about the profit of the company, then of course paying more for the tools may be better.
00:54:41.679 -->
00:54:47.840And for the company, it's better because they're not, they don't have to buy this thing for 10 years, they're only going to be renting it for the the the cost the time of the project.
00:54:48.000 -->
00:54:51.360So it's kind of a business model that aligns really well with everybody on the value chain.
00:54:51.519 -->
00:54:54.880Everybody always talks about that, but they don't really develop these models.
00:54:55.039 -->
00:54:59.760But that's that's a kind of way if somebody's taking a tool, and this is literally that they make really good drills, right?
00:54:59.840 -->
00:55:03.199If you ever want a really good drill for concrete, it's amazing.
00:55:03.280 -->
00:55:04.239They're completely amazing.
00:55:04.320 -->
00:55:07.760And if you hold it, it's like it's it the thing is feel it feels bulletproof.
00:55:07.840 -->
00:55:09.440All their stuff feels bulletproof, it's amazing.
00:55:09.519 -->
00:55:20.719Um, I don't know if they make them for for for other stuff like this, but um, but uh so so Hilti has this model that is is beneficial for everyone and it has them not owning the thing.
00:55:20.800 -->
00:55:23.119Now that not owning the or not selling the object.
00:55:23.199 -->
00:55:27.440There's also there's no Hilti at Lowe's or whatever, there's no Hilti at the on Amazon that I know of.
00:55:27.519 -->
00:55:30.159I don't know, maybe there is now, but you can't just go out and buy this stuff.
00:55:30.320 -->
00:55:32.480So they they're doing stuff that really doesn't make sense.
00:55:32.559 -->
00:55:37.519It's completely insane if you look at it to through low-value players like Stanley Mleckendecker and stuff.
00:55:37.760 -->
00:55:38.880That's completely different, right?
00:55:38.960 -->
00:55:45.199But they're really innovating and they're really spending a ton of money on RD, which of course makes sense because they want everyone to keep renting their tools all the time.
00:55:45.519 -->
00:55:53.840Uh so they need to come up with really specific solutions that like, you know, cut around a corner in a concrete block of a certain density, like faster or whatever, that kind of stuff.
00:55:54.000 -->
00:55:55.360Uh or safer, right?
00:55:55.440 -->
00:55:57.199So they're really doing it in an innovative way.
00:55:57.280 -->
00:56:00.559But we what we see a lot of other companies do is they don't do that degree of innovation.
00:56:00.719 -->
00:56:04.960There's nobody that'll, well, I don't know, will people rent you legs or prosthetics?
00:56:05.039 -->
00:56:05.360You know?
00:56:05.519 -->
00:56:16.960Will people like rent you these or lease you these objects, or will they align themselves such such that that that what makes sense for them will make all their partners save money and will make their customers save money as well?
00:56:17.119 -->
00:56:17.599You know?
00:56:17.760 -->
00:56:19.199That kind of thing is very different.
00:56:19.280 -->
00:56:22.000But we see that very rarely that companies are that innovative.
00:56:22.159 -->
00:56:26.239So I always like, I'm always a little bit worried if people are innovative without innovating.
00:56:26.320 -->
00:56:34.480And and and we can think of things like renting out prosthetics or renting out equipment or renting out kind of families of tools or things like that.
00:56:34.639 -->
00:56:38.719That kind of thing could make this a lot more attractive business and could really transform it.
00:56:38.800 -->
00:56:40.480But they're not thinking in a transformative way.
00:56:40.559 -->
00:56:46.960They're just thinking in the, you know, it just seems to me if I read this thing or what I've read of it so far, it's like, yeah, we're just gonna buy clinics, dude.
00:56:47.199 -->
00:56:47.440Right.
00:56:47.920 -->
00:56:49.039That's what it feels like, you know.
00:56:49.280 -->
00:56:49.840Right.
00:56:50.559 -->
00:57:03.280Anyway, and uh, that's why my little mini, mini hilty obsession, which as a as a tool company that has like, I think it's larger or it's like something like two-thirds of the GDP, their revenue is like two-thirds of the GDP of Liechtenstein, which is where they're based.
00:57:03.599 -->
00:57:04.159Wow.
00:57:04.400 -->
00:57:05.599Which is just completely crazy.
00:57:05.760 -->
00:57:06.800It's like there's a tiny country.
00:57:06.960 -->
00:57:10.639I think the company employs more people than there are people in Liechtenstein.
00:57:10.800 -->
00:57:12.639It's one of the biggest employers and stuff.
00:57:12.880 -->
00:57:14.239It's the biggest employer in the country as well.
00:57:14.320 -->
00:57:16.000So and it's a it's a completely insane company.
00:57:16.079 -->
00:57:20.000But it's like my standard example of like a company that does everything different, you know?
00:57:20.159 -->
00:57:24.239Uh and then I'm thinking, yeah, that we don't really have players like that in in OMP, really.
00:57:24.400 -->
00:57:24.639Right?
00:57:24.719 -->
00:57:26.079We don't have anybody looking at this in a complete.
00:57:26.400 -->
00:57:29.119We have always like somebody that says, I invented the magical arm.
00:57:29.280 -->
00:57:32.719Now for$25 you can have a robot arm and it used to cost you$30,000.
00:57:32.800 -->
00:57:33.920We have a lot of those guys, right?
00:57:34.000 -->
00:57:37.360Um but we don't really have a lot of people that think of this business in a completely new way.
00:57:37.599 -->
00:57:42.159I'm saying that renting or leasing out prosthetic limbs is the way to go, or does it actually make sense?
00:57:42.239 -->
00:57:46.320But there's no one really saying, let's look at this business in a completely different way, you know?
00:57:46.719 -->
00:57:48.719100% Yeah, 100% on that.
00:57:48.800 -->
00:57:51.440And I and I think that there's I think there's a lot of white space.
00:57:51.519 -->
00:57:58.159And there's a lot of white space in this underserved population that could be very interesting.
00:57:58.320 -->
00:58:14.960And just I mean, it was not too long ago when we were talking about like the wheelchairs that are premium wheelchairs that are made for people that have money that they will pay thousands and thousands of dollars so they don't have to be in the regular hospital wheelchair sort of thing.
00:58:15.119 -->
00:58:21.280So I think that there is a play, and and I don't know that there's a lot of people playing in that space, I guess you would say.
00:58:21.599 -->
00:58:22.079Yeah, totally.
00:58:22.239 -->
00:58:25.519I think I think I think just I think there's a lot of like options.
00:58:25.679 -->
00:58:28.639It doesn't have to I always use this premium example because it's really easy, right?
00:58:28.719 -->
00:58:29.920It's also easy to explain.
00:58:30.000 -->
00:58:36.239It doesn't have to be the best, but but there there could be really different ways to to to to to to serve populations.
00:58:36.320 -->
00:58:40.159There could be really different ways to make technology available, you know?
00:58:40.639 -->
00:58:51.119Uh there could be different ways of making uh a lot of this stuff modular, for example, and then making it easier to manufacture at scale, you know, uh customizing only very much smaller parts, for example.
00:58:51.280 -->
00:58:56.400You know, it's things like that that I think uh is not really being done in this industry if we look at it, you know, compared to other industries.
00:58:56.639 -->
00:58:57.760I thought this was super interesting.
00:58:57.920 -->
00:58:59.119I hope you thought it was super interesting.
00:58:59.199 -->
00:59:01.280I thought it was a great idea to talk about this annual report.
00:59:01.440 -->
00:59:02.719It's quietly hopeful.
00:59:03.039 -->
00:59:10.960I mean they're not doing badly, they're not doing uh uh they're not doing anything completely crazy or what seems to uh to us at least to be quite stupid.
00:59:11.280 -->
00:59:15.840They seem to be just uh sailing s rel relatively smoothly uh with some hiccups.
00:59:15.920 -->
00:59:25.039And uh yeah, I think I think I think uh yeah, I think I think I think I think it's a good sign for the industry, at least they're not in trouble and they're doing quite quite stable, uh, quite well.
00:59:25.280 -->
00:59:31.599It's a good sign the industry that's a company that has its is doing so many things is is kind of generally growing in all of them.
00:59:31.760 -->
00:59:35.199And that's that's quite a hopeful note, I think, a quite hopeful note for everyone, I think.
00:59:35.360 -->
00:59:37.519So uh yeah, did you did you have fun, uh Brent?
00:59:37.679 -->
00:59:38.800Yeah, I thought this was good.
00:59:38.960 -->
00:59:47.360And I always appreciate your perspective as we dive into some of the things, especially like I don't know, Brett, I don't know if that's what it actually means or not.
00:59:47.519 -->
00:59:50.960So uh, but it's always good to have those discussions.
00:59:51.199 -->
01:00:02.079And I think the biggest thing is shout out to Embla for providing such a great report that we could talk about a myriad of things that uh are specific issues to the ONP.
01:00:02.239 -->
01:00:08.480And uh, you know, we wish them nothing but the best to uh keep on growing so we can uh do the one for 2026.
01:00:08.960 -->
01:00:09.280Yeah.
01:00:09.440 -->
01:00:13.440Okay, and I still and probably I'll still be looking for that note 33 because I can't find it anywhere.
01:00:13.599 -->
01:00:15.280Uh anyway.
01:00:15.599 -->
01:00:17.599Um, anyway, and yeah, thank you so much for listening.
01:00:17.679 -->
01:00:18.880I hope you guys like this content.
01:00:18.960 -->
01:00:22.880Tell us if you want to do more of this, or if you're just like, guys, uh no, this is horrible.
01:00:24.159 -->
01:00:25.760Why why did you waste my time?
01:00:25.840 -->
01:00:29.920Just tell us that because um we like doing this, we think it's interesting, uh, but maybe you don't.
01:00:30.000 -->
01:00:32.239We'd rather hear a clinician story or something like that.
01:00:32.320 -->
01:00:36.719So tell us or tell us that hey, it's okay to for us to you guys to do this every once in a while.
01:00:36.960 -->
01:00:37.599Don't do it too often.
01:00:37.679 -->
01:00:39.440That's that's fine, uh, good feedback as well.
01:00:39.519 -->
01:00:42.719And uh yeah, thank you guys for listening to the prosthetics and orthotics podcast.
01:00:42.800 -->
01:00:43.679Have a great day.
