Well, thanks for joining today. Everybody I've got Francis Nyan here with me and I'm really excited to introduce you guys because he's been traveling around the globe as a digital nomad for a hot minute as a freelancer, as an email copywriter, working with e-comm
companies and coaches.
And I'm really
excited to hear a little bit more about the project he's been working on for awhile. That's a hell of a lot more focused on showing other people the potential and just how possible it can be to create something that sustains the kind of lifestyle that he's built out. We're talking now about.
50 60, 70, 80 hours a week to try and maximize income as much as possible and exhaust yourself in the process, but to build out a lifestyle business that actually supports what you want to do, where you want to go and something that can give you the freedom to
actually explore. What the
hell it is that you want to do with your life.
And I think that's beautiful because it's a huge part of what the show is about here at the great escape and for risk of rambling on too much longer. Call it over Francis. How are you doing?
Yeah, I'm doing well, man. Thank you so much for that. That was a really awesome intro. I'm going to hire you to write my elevator pitch because that was like a gas.
It made me feel very legit, but yeah. Thank you so much for having me. No, we've been talking for the last few weeks, few months about getting together and just pumped to be.
Awesome. Yeah. I'm excited to dive into, because you've got an interesting story and I think it's really interesting to watch anyone who's gone so recently, especially from having their own freelance consultancy, anything along those lines to building out more of a brand.
Right.
Because there's a big difference for it. It's been a big journey for me, and
I'm really interested to hear what that looks like for you, but to kick it off, we'd love to hear how do you get where you are today? What's the journey look like brother. Yeah, man. Well, you know, kind of
like, I think nowadays I'm really known.
A digital nomad, nomadic copywriter guy. But you know, before that, I was just like everybody else. I, um, was pretty much, you know, in a, not even a nine to five, it was more like an eight to five. I was working at a kindergarten here in Budapest. And you know, before then, I guess backtrack at another year or two, I was, um, like.
Uh, you know, I just, I just finished like a university. I said, finished like up, cause I'm not a hundred percent sure if I graduated. Um, and I, you know, pretty much was just working a dead-end job. I was like, I really want to do something with my life. I was really jealous of other people and which is weird because I was only like 22, 23.
Um, and everyone's lost at that age. And I think I just felt a little more lost because, um, I think if you knew anything about me, like right now, Like listening to this, then you likely know like my addiction story and how I overdosed in October, 2014. And so like, you know, after that, all, all that happened.
I was just like, I need to figure out my way, you know, um, I learned all, all about teaching English abroad. Um, got my TEFL certification and in less than a year after my overdose, I moved to Spain, you know, and then I taught in Barcelona for eight. Um, moved on over to Budapest because my whole thing was like five countries in five years.
Um, eventually after about a year, I was like, I'm really sick of teaching. I'm not good at this. And I feel like everybody hates me. That was like my, like my inner monologue, like daily. Um, And so, you know, I did what the typical thing that everyone was doing. It seemed in like 2016, 2017, which was like Googling how to make money online, um, and fell upon all of these other jobs, you know, SEO consultants, uh, Amazon FBA, Shopify stores and things like that.
Um, eventually I actually met a young German guy, um, named Ben lobstermen, who I'm still good friends with with, uh, today. And it's really funny cause I, I think anyway, You know, heard me on another podcast. I've heard, has heard this story over and over again. And I don't think I've ever said the young German guy's name.
So fin, if you're listening to this, this is you finally, you get some recognition, man. So everybody join his email list. I think he has one, but yeah, he just gave me all of these resources. I thought it was interesting cause I, um, I liked writing growing up. I went to a writing intensive, universal. And, um, yeah, and then that kind of kick started my journey.
You know, I had the old, like Upwork and upper profile and had this horrible $200 laptop that I got on Facebook marketplace that, um, yeah, it just like didn't charge once he was like propped up on like a coffee mug and things like that. And it was just, you know, that was like the beginning and I kind of survived on, I was lucky that I was still living.
I was still, uh, I was living in Budapest. So it was really affordable to live there, no matter what. And then I was surviving on three, $5 jobs, writing blog posts, um, you know, eventually, um, got a job, got my first, like $2,000 retainer with a company called karate combat as their main fighter. And actually got it.
Uh, father in the school I was working at. And, um, that was like my first big client in that whenever I was pitching other clients, after that, they were like, oh, that's like a big company. It looks like you did some great work. Um, and then my career kind of slowly rolled after that. No, I wouldn't say it's snowballed and became something huge, but I started to learn how to leverage projects here and there and, you know, leverage testimonials so I can get more.
You know, eventually I, I, I enrolled into the copywriter club think tank where, you know, I kind of learn how to systemize things, how to network better, um, and how to niche myself down. Um, and yeah, I mean, it was, it was really fun. It was really great. But then I was, I think I, I hit that point where I was like, I I've, I'm making good money.
I'm working a lot. Now I'm traveling. Um, and nothing's really like, it's, everything's a lot, but nothing's really awesome. Um, and then eventually I was like, I burned out, um, it was like a month and a half where I was just like, you know, I was like throwing up at the side of a laptop. I'm just like left and right.
Like up truck. And I was like, oh, this is like horrible. Um, yeah. And then I was like, okay, I'm just gonna focus on my lifestyle. Um, and then that's kind of when the nomad newsletter, which is my main project now, um, Came up because I was laying on this couch right here, just like blue thing. And I was reading the hustle, um, that business and tech news letter by Sam Parr.
And I was like, how come there's nothing with like, there's nothing like this for digital nomads. Um, and I was like, I'm just going to make it. And you know, that's kind of started it. And eight months later, still here, still writing copy, but now kind of known as the, the nomad newsletter.
Love to hear it, man. And I always think it's super interesting to hear two things, right? One it's where people started and where the like straw final straw really hits. And then second
to, you know, what
it takes to get to a point to where it's something that's sustainable for you. Right. And for everybody, there's some kind of investment in self, whether it's a program, a coaching session, a mastermind, whatever, um, think tanks, something that I'm a part of right now.
They do a killer job with it. And I think it's interesting that in those like three minutes, you mentioned like two or three different newsletters. Right. And I think it's something that we have in common that we haven't really talked about it as you consume and are surrounded by a whole lot of shit.
And just from reading the kind of content that you're put out on a regular basis, there's some really impressive aspects of anybody that can take. All the broad messaging that's out there. The really have really diluted shit around, making money, online, building a business, and take a spin on it that you know, that there's going to be a subsection of folks who really identify with it.
Right. And obviously for you, that's going to be digital nomads. But tell me a little bit more about that. How do you come to find your group of people right. And say, Hey, these people
deserve a little bit more. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Well, you know, I knew that like travel. And itself is like big. Right. And then, um, you know, that's always, you know, people having travel blogs and people who were like, you know, kind of idolized, you know, Anthony Bourdain and all these people on the travel channel, you know, my, my, my first crush was like Samantha Brown.
I'm like the, the travel channel, just like kind of a weird thing to admit on a podcast. I feel like. But, um, we just went there. Um, but like what, you know, with the, the pandemic over the last two years with all these businesses going remote, I knew that people were. Um, taking their jobs, whether it was an online business or just remote work and they were traveling around, uh, Between January 20, 21 and June or May, 2021.
I was in Mexico and, um, I was traveling around there and that's where I met all of these people who, you know, they weren't freelancers, they weren't business owners, they were just working. You know, FedEx or something. And they were like not telling their boss that they were in Cancun instead of Memphis, just for example.
Um, and then, you know, I noticed that, but then just out of my own curiosity, I would just YouTube, digital nomads or something. And, you know, there was, um, I forgot who, who made some documentary is like a 30 minute documentary and like digital nomads in Thailand. And I had like 10 million views or four, four or 5 million views.
And I'm like, okay, when people are definitely interested. And so, you know, in part of like my newsletter research was like, I'm just going to go on and read it. And I actually saw that it was like a subreddit for digital nomads and had 1.5 million people in it, which is crazy, which is for me, it's insane.
Cause that's like way more than like the Memphis Grizzlies subreddit, which I'm a part of. It's like half the size of the N the R slash NBA subreddit, which I am always looking at. And I'm like, so people are interested in this and I know it's a lifestyle. And, um, you know, there's one thing I've learned even with like, client work is that if someone.
It's like in love with their lifestyle, with a certain lifestyle. They're not like just liking it. They like, it's almost cultish, you know, it's like people who are into like Brazilian jujitsu. It's like, they're not, they don't just do Brazilian jujitsu. They like are in love with it, you know? Or like people who are.
Who are, uh, interested in opera enough to like join a newsletter. They're not just like interested in opera. They like love that stuff. Um, and so with digital nomadism and like travel, I was like, you know, I just want people who are interested in this lifestyle to be in it. Doesn't have to be like this million person newsletter, um, with a million readers.
It's like, if I can get people who are just interested in catching this and reading this every. And I'm going to like that. And then it was just like my passion, you know, this is when I was burned out and I was like, I just want to create something that I would read and that I would enjoy. Um, and of course it's kind of like changed a little bit over the last, you know, at this 0.8 or nine months.
Um, but yeah, that's kinda how I went to it. I just saw that it is a lifestyle that people, you know, they enjoy and a lot of people want to be a part of, and that I just want to be that guy. I love
to hear it. And it's encouraging, right? Because one of the markers for anything successful in the longterm
is
taking something that seems really unapproachable.
And if you can find a way to make it, bite-sized consumable and a hell of a lot more. We'll make a less of
a barrier to entry to it, I guess, where it's failing me at the moment. That seems to
be really interesting. Right? You mentioned the hustle and that's their big shtick is like, how do we take all of the crazy shit that's going on in daily
business?
Right. Big stuff. Boil it down into 2, 3, 4
minute read, right? That's the daily brew. Um, that's whatever the hell the name of the podcast is that goes out every single morning that I think wall street journal puts out. Right. It's just quick, easy, consistent, and really fast. And something that I think it touches on.
That's really interesting is that we all want to know a hell of a lot more about something, these like really deep niche cult, following
type things. We want to feel a part of them without having to invest
the like five,
10 years that it takes to actually like lead something like that. Right now. I don't say any of that to dog
on it though, because I think it's really cool.
You get to give people shortcuts, somebody who sees digital nomadism as. All of the logistics as all the planning, all the visas, all of everything that comes with that kind of regular travel. And you get to break that down to something that's a hell of a lot more approachable. Right.
So
when people are coming to the nomad newsletter and they're first subscribed, what are some of the things that they learn really quickly, right?
Like what were some of the first things that you learned when it came to making this happen and work for you and what you're going, what you
had. Yeah. I mean, for me, it's anyone who comes in, I think they, they, they can see that becoming a digital nomad is easier than you think that it's a lot more affordable.
Um, like the payer of entry isn't as complicated as. As maybe they expected, you know, I I've had people are like, you know, as I, as I was doing my research, people were like, oh, do I need a visa to, to do this as an American? Can I go to Thailand? Do I need to like, you know, give like a million dollars or something like this.
And, um, all it is. Travel and knowing how long you're staying in the country. Um, and then also knowing your budgeting, you know, and I think that that's something that I, that I cover kind of every week, talking about money, talking about the visas, you know, what's out there. Um, these really sexy digital nomad visas that like dozens of countries are launching.
Um, cause I think even before then I was speaking on other podcasts recently about this and how everyone is just like, you know, work in travel. It's not sustainable. It's not enjoyable. You can't do both, you know, it take your vacation and then go back home and work. Um, but with the nomad, I'm showing examples of people who are making this a real lifestyle.
Not so much as a phase as in like two months of travel, two months of work, but people are building 6, 7, 8 bigger businesses. Nearby a beach in Bali, I say nearby because no one actually works, works on a laptop on the beach, but, um, people are building successful, thriving businesses and teams out there.
Um, but they're not just doing that, but they're, you know, people are just creating really good careers, you know, I think it's great that Airbnb, um, you know, they just allowed. Yeah. They just allow their entire company to work remote. And I thought that was really great. I think Spotify does as well. And they don't like change the bank.
So it's crazy that someone who's getting a salary from like a San Francisco salary, it can be living in Portugal, um, not live like a king or a queen. Um, but you know, that, that's what the newsletter is for is to show that it's, it's a hundred percent possible and there are businesses and people out there to help you do it.
And, you know, within the. Um, you know, I guess welcome sequence. I show my story to show that, you know, any, any new it, and I'm not even like that organized. And, um, and I'm not that great with my money sometimes, you know, I like to splurt on a nice dinner and things like that, but, um, yeah, anyone who joins the newsletter, that that's what it's for is to show that this lifestyle of like work, travel and exploration is 100% possible.
Yeah, it's definitely impressive. And I got a question on this one too. So what's been one of the most impactful things that you've set up inside of your business, right. Instead of the freelance side of things, that's made travel a hell of a lot easier. That's made being able to work. What are you at? Like on average 20 hours,
30 hours in a week.
Oh yeah. So like in terms of like my client work, um, oh yeah, maybe like 20 hours a week. Maybe not even, um, sometimes when it's like. When I'm like really killing it. And I'm like really clear, it's less than less than that. And I'm still like pulling in like, uh, in the five figure range or close to five figure range.
If I really just want to keep it chill. Um, most of my days are really about like creating content. Um, and that's how that's, that's kind of helped with everything like, you know, building an audience. I think we're probably getting into that and how, like building an audience, it's just, I never really built an audience.
Um, As a freelancer and I did speak on podcasts and things like this. Um, but like it's been so, so helpful in my
journey. Yeah, it makes a massive difference. And obviously it's something that I talk a lot about. You guys have listened to any other episodes. You're very familiar with it, but there's always a group of people that you can bring closer to you that accelerates whatever you
do.
Right. Because
the goal isn't necessarily just to start hitting higher milestones it's to do that continuously, because like you mentioned, It's fucking
exhausting. It's just so bad, man. So tired thinking about it.
So it's like, how do you hit a certain point where you can start to make things more sustainable for yourself though, right?
Like those are the kinds of new questions that you can start to ask. It says, Hey, if I'm traveling.
Two times in a month.
And I know that I'm only going to be able to be available, or I only really want to be available two days out of the fucking week, but what systems can I put in place to make those kinds of things happen?
Right. And I think what's interesting and why I'm excited to learn a lot more just by being on the newsletter and watching your
content is that most of the systems
people talk about are really just geared towards driving more clients, driving more revenue, driving, more sales, making your ship more affordable, hiring a team, right.
They don't have a lot to do. Less hours probably pack this point that I've chosen into 10 hours in a week. Right. Cause
that's the oppressive shit. So what are some of those things for you? Yeah. I mean, for me, it's like, it's one getting, it's getting really clear on what my lifestyle and like my work life, you know, what is that, you know, do I want to work with 8, 9, 10 clients?
Like I was last year was the money. Great. Yeah, it was fantastic, but didn't really do anything in regards to like actually creating my experience. Like any better. Not really. I was still like frugal, cause I'm like just that kind of guy. So one thing that kind of like, maybe it's a system or a mindset.
It's just, you know, working with people who, you know, match my rate, who are high paying and are easy to work with. Um, I'm not necessarily sure if that's like a system, but it is something that I've kind of, I always abide by, you know, no matter what, no matter who contacts me to work, it's like, is this person going to ping me all day?
Uh, or if I tell them. No, this is my criteria of working with me. Like, um, can, can we agree to this? You know, can you agree to not message me on a Saturday or Sunday? Can we agree to not doing calls after 4:00 PM? Um, that has helped me, um, really bring in. The people I want to work with in, you know, only do projects that are actually really quick, um, really high paying or, you know, working on retainer with, you know, clients that are very, very, very low maintenance.
Um, and it took me a while, you know, and it didn't take a lot of like saying no, um, to people who otherwise would have been a great opportunity, but, um, Yeah. I mean, that's, it's just being very clear on what I want my work and to my life know, in my life outside of work to look like, um, you know, of course, like some of that includes outsourcing certain things, using different softwares to, for scheduling.
You know, I do have, um, like a junior, right. Who who helps me with, uh, some of my client work. Um, and you know, she also does some of my email implementation. So just having a VA and outsourcing the stuff that like, I really don't want to do, like after I write my, my Friday newsletter, which has a lot of links and a lot of images and I use active campaign, for example, and I hate, I hate it because it's so laggy and it kills me.
And I just want to, like, not sometimes I just don't want to do it. I let her handle it because, you know, I would much rather write maybe an email for my. Or continue writing for myself rather than do that. And so that's helped me a whole lot, like, you know, taking my, you know, taking work that would probably take me another hour or two a day.
Um, and then, you know, not doing it and just sticking to about an hour and a half, two hours tops.
Yeah. That makes a ton of sense. And I
think it hits on something.
Anyone going into their own operations, whether it be freelance or that you're building out an agency, no matter what the hell it is that you're
doing is
really, really watching your time and getting insanely fucking protective about it.
Like, like the, the, the pit bullish nature that I have when someone asks for my time, I'd like, I have to really dial it back because it does become a healthy reflex, but like kicking it off. What were some of the things then maybe this probably started when you're teaching. Right. Um, but what were some
of the things that
I don't know, like you talked about burnout and I guess that's a pretty interesting way to look at it is what do you think pushed you over the edge, right?
Like what were you doing that finally started to tip everything? Was it just taken on too much is saying yes, too much.
Yeah, I was just saying yes, too much. Now everything that I am, I am fairly good at now, you know, I'm not perfect. I do, I do protect my time pretty well, but you know, there are times in which I take the call at at seven or I take the call at eight only if I really liked if I really liked the client.
I mean, I like everybody I'm working with now. So if they are like, Hey, can we just get on a kind of quick one at seven? I'm like, yeah, for sure. But there was a time in which I was just saying yes to everything and it didn't matter be relationship I had with them. It didn't matter. They seem like they were going to be a problem client.
Uh didn't matter. Like, I don't know. I would just say yes. You know, and like, there were times I think when was this? This was like October, not last year, but I mean, maybe October 20, 20 before I went to Mexico, when I was like, I had a client, he was like in Pacific standard time and you know, they're nine hours behind, but one time he was like, you're going to call it my comment to.
I don't think 2:00 PM. Oh shit. That's 11:00 PM my time. And I was like, yeah, I'll go, I'll do it. And like, you know, my girlfriend's asleep and I'm tired and we're going over. Like you, you were critiquing my YouTube ad scripts. Um, and I'm like, what am I doing with my life? Like, what is this? You know? And then like, um, you know, there were times where I just like didn't, I didn't like defend myself when it gained to Doug overwork, you know?
And there were times early. I worked with an agency for a little while, you know, writing some emails and scripts and stuff. And like, I don't know, they're man, their managerial team was just sending me like. Projects that are due day of, and I'm like, I don't even know the client. Like I can't do this, but then I would try to do it anyways.
And, you know, work, you know, a six, seven hours of work would turn into 8, 9, 10, 11, and then for no reason. Um, but like, that's what pushed me over the edge because, you know, maybe you feel that you're very productive, that you feel like such a beast doing all of this work and maybe you are, but like you're also human and that, you know, I felt that eventually.
I was going to hit that tipping point. And I did in which like, bam that's when in July I was just sick of it. I was like, what's the point? Like I'm making good money, but I don't really care for. I don't really like, you know, my, uh, um, under a bunch of NDAs. So I can't even claim that I'm working with these people or I'm doing the work.
So like, I'm like, I can't get recognition. I think I'm just learning a lesson right now. And that's what I did. I learned the lesson, you know, it took them a month and a half off and was like, okay, what is the next, what do I want to do next? That's going to be great for me. Um, but yeah, just saying yes to everything.
It's tough, which is like, was just crazy. It was, I had just finished doing like mindset coaching and it was almost like the end of like, you know, the heat, like a movie, like, you know, all the, all the heroes are together and they've learned all of these lessons, but they had like one final battle with the bad guy.
And like, that was like my final battle with the bad guys, like using all of my lessons that I learned, um, working with Linda Perry, who was great. And, um, Like realizing what I, you know, what, what was possible, what is possible and doing that. But yeah, I mean just saying yes to everything was just so bad.
And I say mostly no to things now, just at my desk.
It's funny how often that comes up as a marker. Right? It's like, that seems to be a turning point for most people. There's a lot of saying yes, as you're building things up and, but you're not even necessarily proven anything to anybody else. It's just self proof.
Like, yeah, I can do everything if I want. But fuck that. That's, that's awful.
Um,
and I think it's a good point to cut off toleration, right? It's like everything that you will tolerate is eventually going to take over. And so drawing that line in the sand is, is absolutely huge. I want to shift more over into the mode nomad portion brother, because obviously that's the, uh, most interesting for a lot of people when it comes to what you have going on and it's damn impressive.
And so I'll kick it off with a cheesy one. What's the best place you've been selling.
Oh man. I think the best place I've been so far while I love with cush and I love it so much. I got residency here. I've been here forever and it is my home base. I think objectively, I think if I was to take a step back, I would still think it's Budapest.
If you're the type of, if you're a city person and you like the city vibes, he like cafes and bars and restaurants and clubs. Um, but you like architecture everywhere. It's like number one. I mean, this place is absolutely stunning. It's, it's weird that I'm even considering leaving. Um, and I think anyone who's been here can just falls in love with it.
You know, they, they say that it's, it's, it's something that like every, every corner you turn around and it's something beautiful and it's also just fun. I mean, it's, you know, the whole, like they just left. So if a union or whatever in the late eighties. And so they have this, all the young people have this cool, vibrant energy there, it's a very inviting and they want you to hang out.
They want to travel to your country. They, they, um, you know, they want to party all night and get to know you, which is really great. Um, I guess like a close second would be like Barcelona, just because it's, as the sea has the city vibes, it has the mountains. Um, and it's like, understandable. Learn Spanish.
It's really fun. Hungarian is like one of the most difficult languages in the world, but I would say those two are really, really good. And I'm pretty, I'm really honored. I could say I've lived in both. So, and you mentioned considered leaving, right?
So what other places are on the list next potentially right now?
Or do you have something locked in? Yeah, so
I wouldn't say locked in at this point. If they're being may 20, 22, my, I have my, an application to move. Um, and that's because Portugal does have like a digital nomad visa, um, which allows me to live there for like two years and I can renew it pretty easily.
Um, I think Spain also has a, like, there's a lot of countries that have been to him at beaches, but this one is like, they called it the digital nomad visa, but it's just their like freelancer visa that they've had forever. Um, which like a lot of Americans have and, uh, Apparently a lot of like tax lawyers know all about, they can help me out with that.
Um, the whole thing with here in Hungary is like crazy. So, um, yeah, I'm gonna go there and hopefully, you know, live by the live by the sea and have a good life writing copy and emails and ride my bike around the beach. So that's the goal and showing everybody else so they can pull it off and do the same.
Yeah, that's it, that's a, that's the main thing, you know? I mean, that's the, I think it's just so doable now. I think it's one thing is like, I always find very, it's always interesting with people is like, we're so stuck in our own minds and our own experiences that we forget that, um, not many people know what it's like and you know, you're, you're the expert and you know how easy it can be, but that not a lot of people know.
So yeah. I'm hoping to, to inspire and show people that it's.
Yeah, let's talk a little bit more about that. Obviously don't spoil everything that, you know, starts coming in when people do join the list. And I want to keep all the newsletter content at nice and fresh. Right. But what are some of the first things that you would start telling anybody who is interested in it?
Who's considering it who maybe they're even five or six fucking years out from it.
It's just something that's absolutely
brand new to them, but seems appealing because they're just done. They're burnt out during
the
same place that you were with their day job. Yeah. Yeah. I mean the first thing I would say that it's, it's very, it's a lot more, what's the word I'm looking for it convenient.
Um, then one would think, you know, I've had people be like, oh, well, I like when people speak English, will it be easy to travel around? How can I order a restaurants? How can I no. Most of these places, especially if you, if you stay even close, like a city center or like a very like well-populated area, people speak English, um, people, you know, the, the menus are, you know, they have an English section.
Um, you know, of course I'm not talking about like someplace supports. If you, if you go to a smaller town and things like this, they're not going to have that. But if you're a completely new and you want to get your feet wet, consider like going to, um, like a mid to big size. Um, without like a somewhat of a tourist section, then you could dip your feet in that, you know, that's going to be your first taste, so you can see what's out there.
Um, you know, I know people out in Asia who, you know, they're, they just been living in Bali and in Thailand for years. Cause they're like, yeah, I mean, everyone's here to help, you know, they're super friendly. So that's the thing. And people are friendly. Um, if you're like a. You know, if you're a total newbie to this, like don't be afraid of other people.
Um, cause people are helpful, you know, of course are assholes in every country. I mean, there's assholes in Memphis. Um, so, you know, that's, that comes with the territory, but there are people who are just excited to show you around. Um, you know, do the basics, go to Airbnb, go to Airbnb experiences. Um, and.
Just explore that way. It's just so easy and so doable now. Um, and there are way, you know, there are groups and companies that literally help you, like thrive in that, this lifestyle.
And when you were kicking off, did you dive right in? Did you like go and do a full month in somewhere brand new? Like what did that look like?
That was bouncing around. I mean, I was like, I was in Budapest and I based myself here. And I was like, I was just doing on like week trips to Belgium, to Spain, um, and all around. When I go in like Slovakia, I go ski trips and like Slovakia and stuff like this. Um, I lied, I didn't ski because I'm like so scared of like sliding.
So, um, and then I had like a very traumatic experience and like this Lavaca and mountains where I've, it was very like, it was like, Um, where I was just like freezing cold. I was wearing like air Jordans and on snow and no traction and it was just bad. Um, but like, that was my thing was like at first I was like these week long trips, just because being in Budapest, it's, it's so easy to, to bounce around and go to different countries.
And like, you know, I'd spend like a week in Vienna. Um, and you know, I'd go to Italy and things like that. Um, eventually I would take like longer trips and then even dive into like the states, which I never really have done before. Um, and so, yeah, I mean, at first it was just like these little quick trips.
Just I can just, I can get accustomed to this lifestyle.
Yeah, definitely. I got to imagine it can be a lot
to
get used. Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. I mean, it's the same for me. I was kind of like afraid as well. I was like so big, like cities or these countries are so intimidating, um, or people are going to be nice.
You know, well, I even like it it's things like this, but it's, it's, it's more doable than, than, than most people think. Um, and all it is, you're just living in another place. So you don't even have to explore if you're the type of person who you just enjoy going on, walks on something like European street and like seeing the architecture and that's you like, that's it.
There's no rules to like no Madison. I know families who, you know, they don't go to. The parties. They literally just travel around and homeschool their kids and yeah, they live in Montana today and then Paris next month. There's no real estate, not, I think that's the biggest kicker.
Right? And to one of the things that a lot of people over assume is the downside.
Um, so seeing this from the perspective of like, we went and planned to do a year full-time on the road, just in the states, um, or growing all this out last September and we made it through November. And decided it was a good time to come back. We got a little one, we want her to go to school,
whatever wasn't was an easy decision for us at
the time, squeeze back.
And that was the biggest thing we're worried about the whole time though. Um, and so what a thing is really interesting in that a lot of folks could consider if this is something you're looking into doing whatever else it is. It's not that hard to just go back to where you were before,
you know, and even if you
do your.
Miles ahead of where you would have been otherwise, had you not gone. Right? I think one of the biggest motivating factors for me,
anytime we make a big decision is. What's the
worst case scenario and is that worse potentially than the regret of not having attempted to do it. And when it comes to travel for so many people, that's a huge one.
Right? How many 80 year olds, 90 year olds Dean
meet where one of their dying
wishes is to go see somewhere, right? It's to kick this thing off. And it's something that we reserve typically for later on in life, you know, at least. People in the U S we tend to reserve long-term and regular travel for our fifties or sixties, or whenever else it may be that you think you're retired.
Right. And you've got the time to do it. And like the biggest downside, if you overlook that, is that you're less equipped to enjoy all that shit at that point. Anyhow, two. You know, and so I think it's really cool to see what you're doing,
which
you're
helping other folks do, where you're getting so much more fulfillment earlier on and helping them flip the script on that.
Right. Because that is one of the biggest parts about it is like shifting that frame of frame of mind.
Yeah, for sure. For sure. And it's also like, I don't know where in like a crazy time right now where, you know, you could take a. You know, being from Memphis, like I can take a two and a half hour flight to JFK, New York and then take a six hour flight and I'm in London.
Right. It's like, it's so easy, you know? I mean, it's not, you know, sometimes it would take me longer to drive to new Orleans than it would to get to London. And it's like, you know, we're think. We're in a time where we're so lucky that we can explore and people are so nice to let you stay in their Airbnb, or they are excited to spend an afternoon to show you, you know, vineyards in Portugal or something like that.
Or, you know, to invite you over for dinner in Mexico and things. And, you know, to have these experiences, you know, our grandparents, it's something that they couldn't fathom, you know, Likely if they came to Europe, they were fighting an award, um, or something like that. And we are not fighting in a war.
We're fighting over wifi in, which is like not a tragedy. Right. So, um, I think it's one of those things that I think everyone should try, you know, even if it's like a three-month thing and you're like, oh, okay. You know, maybe they're paying rent somewhere. And it's like, oh, okay. I'll, I'll pay the rent, the monthly rent, or I'll sublease my place.
And I'll just try it. Let's try this lifestyle out. Um, and you don't even have to go to Mexico. So you don't even have to go to, if you're from the states, like I would say don't make it even easier to just go to Mexico. That's where a lot of people are. Um, but you don't even have to do anything too crazy, just like two months, travel around and get a, your real path here in Europe and bounce around to the bigger cities and, um, you know, do work in a cafe or a co-worker.
Um, you know, trying to meet people, see if it's for you, maybe in two months, you're going to be like, you know what, fuck, this kind of wants to go home and stay on my couch. And at least you tried it and at least, you know, but I know people who who've tried it and they're still out know, I actually have a friend from my university.
Um, and she was like, oh, I just went to. Costa Rica for two months. And I was like, oh yeah, how's that? And she's like, oh, it's been great. It's been nine months since I even went to Costa Rica and I'm in, I've just been dropped. I've left. She's like, I'm my French boyfriend now. And I'm in Budapest. I'm like, yeah.
I mean, you ever going to go home? She's like, probably not. I think this is me now. All right. Love it. So I think anyone should just try it. I mean, this is the timing what's travel. Um, and having an experience like this is like so easy. So go for it. I say, just go for. I think there's something to knowing that you're choosing to be wherever the hell you are, whether that's at home, where you've always grown
up, whether
that's
four or five, six different countries in the span of a year, there's a lot of freedom and actively choosing to do so.
And not simply staying there because that's where you've always been. Right? Or, well, that's where it's cheap or what's easiest.
Yeah. Yeah, I think that's, I think that's probably one of the cooler things about it is like, you know, as a nomad, as long as you do your research, you can literally go anywhere.
Um, and you know, B, I think it's crazy how, like, there are different types of like these destinations, you can go to the big cities like Budapest or Barcelona, which are a huge for, um, you know, or Berlin, which are huge for online business people. Um, but then if you want it to, you could go someplace, you know, a lot chiller, a lot sleepier, you know, maybe you want to just go to a chill surf town like us Candido and Mexico.
Um, or you want to go to the mountain. Bulgaria called, uh, in Benco, which right now is like actually a thriving, like nomad community. They have like housing for nomads and the coworking space or the Internet's really kick ass. Um, and you can just choose to go anywhere. I mean, I have a friend who he's, um, Hungarian American and he lives in he's from Florida, but now he lives in Barcelona.
And he just bounces around, I think because of his work spends like a week here and a week there, I'm just like, where you going now, Argentina? You know? And then the next day, you know, the next time he was like, yeah, I'm just going to go. I'm going to France for a little bit. Or I'm just going to go back to Miami.
I'm like, all right, well, I like the difference there. Miami is not like, it is exotic in a way, but like it's not Barcelona. And you know, he, he does this because he can't, um, I mean, I think each gravel, you try this LaSalle out. You're going to find this place that really resonate with you. You can go to.
Before we close out, I want to do two things. One. I want to ask where the hell people can go to find you where they can go to get on the nomad newsletter and get access to all the crazy stories.
But also on top of that, to all the great things that you're teaching people who are building a freelance business, that they can borrow
from everything that you've seen
work so far. So, where can they go to find you
Francis? Yeah, you can find me at, it's pretty easy@thenomadandnewsletter.com. I'm right there.
If you join my email list, I have a little, little freebie for you. Seven ways to get a high paying online clients for free. Um, and yet, you know, join the, the several thousand aspiring and current digital nomad freelancers are trying to fill, you know, who I'm teaching to live freely and company. Traveling and working all around the world.
Um, and yeah, you can also find me on Twitter, like Francis underscore. Nyan trying to grow that Twitter profile. So find me there and retweet me. Yeah. But love is. Yeah,
no, it's been an absolute blast. And then the closer everybody gets it, I want to hear what yours is. If there's one thing that you wish you would've known earlier on when you started out freelancing or whether that be teaching English and traveling,
what do you think that would be?
Uh, I think it's definitely that everyone is just winging it, man. Like everyone who is just like, everyone just is just doing their best and they have no idea, you know, and not to be scared of anyone. Um, And to, uh, yeah. Just know that we're all human and that we all have levels of imposter syndrome, no matter how successful you are.
So that's something I wish I knew because then I would have taken bigger risks and you know, said hello to more people.
Love it. Love to hear it. Well, it's been a
blast having you on the show. Thank you so much. I know
everybody listening. Absolutely loved it, but until next time, cause I'd love to have you back on again.
companies and coaches.
And I'm really
excited to hear a little bit more about the project he's been working on for awhile. That's a hell of a lot more focused on showing other people the potential and just how possible it can be to create something that sustains the kind of lifestyle that he's built out. We're talking now about.
50 60, 70, 80 hours a week to try and maximize income as much as possible and exhaust yourself in the process, but to build out a lifestyle business that actually supports what you want to do, where you want to go and something that can give you the freedom to
actually explore. What the
hell it is that you want to do with your life.
And I think that's beautiful because it's a huge part of what the show is about here at the great escape and for risk of rambling on too much longer. Call it over Francis. How are you doing?
Yeah, I'm doing well, man. Thank you so much for that. That was a really awesome intro. I'm going to hire you to write my elevator pitch because that was like a gas.
It made me feel very legit, but yeah. Thank you so much for having me. No, we've been talking for the last few weeks, few months about getting together and just pumped to be.
Awesome. Yeah. I'm excited to dive into, because you've got an interesting story and I think it's really interesting to watch anyone who's gone so recently, especially from having their own freelance consultancy, anything along those lines to building out more of a brand.
Right.
Because there's a big difference for it. It's been a big journey for me, and
I'm really interested to hear what that looks like for you, but to kick it off, we'd love to hear how do you get where you are today? What's the journey look like brother. Yeah, man. Well, you know, kind of
like, I think nowadays I'm really known.
A digital nomad, nomadic copywriter guy. But you know, before that, I was just like everybody else. I, um, was pretty much, you know, in a, not even a nine to five, it was more like an eight to five. I was working at a kindergarten here in Budapest. And you know, before then, I guess backtrack at another year or two, I was, um, like.
Uh, you know, I just, I just finished like a university. I said, finished like up, cause I'm not a hundred percent sure if I graduated. Um, and I, you know, pretty much was just working a dead-end job. I was like, I really want to do something with my life. I was really jealous of other people and which is weird because I was only like 22, 23.
Um, and everyone's lost at that age. And I think I just felt a little more lost because, um, I think if you knew anything about me, like right now, Like listening to this, then you likely know like my addiction story and how I overdosed in October, 2014. And so like, you know, after that, all, all that happened.
I was just like, I need to figure out my way, you know, um, I learned all, all about teaching English abroad. Um, got my TEFL certification and in less than a year after my overdose, I moved to Spain, you know, and then I taught in Barcelona for eight. Um, moved on over to Budapest because my whole thing was like five countries in five years.
Um, eventually after about a year, I was like, I'm really sick of teaching. I'm not good at this. And I feel like everybody hates me. That was like my, like my inner monologue, like daily. Um, And so, you know, I did what the typical thing that everyone was doing. It seemed in like 2016, 2017, which was like Googling how to make money online, um, and fell upon all of these other jobs, you know, SEO consultants, uh, Amazon FBA, Shopify stores and things like that.
Um, eventually I actually met a young German guy, um, named Ben lobstermen, who I'm still good friends with with, uh, today. And it's really funny cause I, I think anyway, You know, heard me on another podcast. I've heard, has heard this story over and over again. And I don't think I've ever said the young German guy's name.
So fin, if you're listening to this, this is you finally, you get some recognition, man. So everybody join his email list. I think he has one, but yeah, he just gave me all of these resources. I thought it was interesting cause I, um, I liked writing growing up. I went to a writing intensive, universal. And, um, yeah, and then that kind of kick started my journey.
You know, I had the old, like Upwork and upper profile and had this horrible $200 laptop that I got on Facebook marketplace that, um, yeah, it just like didn't charge once he was like propped up on like a coffee mug and things like that. And it was just, you know, that was like the beginning and I kind of survived on, I was lucky that I was still living.
I was still, uh, I was living in Budapest. So it was really affordable to live there, no matter what. And then I was surviving on three, $5 jobs, writing blog posts, um, you know, eventually, um, got a job, got my first, like $2,000 retainer with a company called karate combat as their main fighter. And actually got it.
Uh, father in the school I was working at. And, um, that was like my first big client in that whenever I was pitching other clients, after that, they were like, oh, that's like a big company. It looks like you did some great work. Um, and then my career kind of slowly rolled after that. No, I wouldn't say it's snowballed and became something huge, but I started to learn how to leverage projects here and there and, you know, leverage testimonials so I can get more.
You know, eventually I, I, I enrolled into the copywriter club think tank where, you know, I kind of learn how to systemize things, how to network better, um, and how to niche myself down. Um, and yeah, I mean, it was, it was really fun. It was really great. But then I was, I think I, I hit that point where I was like, I I've, I'm making good money.
I'm working a lot. Now I'm traveling. Um, and nothing's really like, it's, everything's a lot, but nothing's really awesome. Um, and then eventually I was like, I burned out, um, it was like a month and a half where I was just like, you know, I was like throwing up at the side of a laptop. I'm just like left and right.
Like up truck. And I was like, oh, this is like horrible. Um, yeah. And then I was like, okay, I'm just gonna focus on my lifestyle. Um, and then that's kind of when the nomad newsletter, which is my main project now, um, Came up because I was laying on this couch right here, just like blue thing. And I was reading the hustle, um, that business and tech news letter by Sam Parr.
And I was like, how come there's nothing with like, there's nothing like this for digital nomads. Um, and I was like, I'm just going to make it. And you know, that's kind of started it. And eight months later, still here, still writing copy, but now kind of known as the, the nomad newsletter.
Love to hear it, man. And I always think it's super interesting to hear two things, right? One it's where people started and where the like straw final straw really hits. And then second
to, you know, what
it takes to get to a point to where it's something that's sustainable for you. Right. And for everybody, there's some kind of investment in self, whether it's a program, a coaching session, a mastermind, whatever, um, think tanks, something that I'm a part of right now.
They do a killer job with it. And I think it's interesting that in those like three minutes, you mentioned like two or three different newsletters. Right. And I think it's something that we have in common that we haven't really talked about it as you consume and are surrounded by a whole lot of shit.
And just from reading the kind of content that you're put out on a regular basis, there's some really impressive aspects of anybody that can take. All the broad messaging that's out there. The really have really diluted shit around, making money, online, building a business, and take a spin on it that you know, that there's going to be a subsection of folks who really identify with it.
Right. And obviously for you, that's going to be digital nomads. But tell me a little bit more about that. How do you come to find your group of people right. And say, Hey, these people
deserve a little bit more. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Well, you know, I knew that like travel. And itself is like big. Right. And then, um, you know, that's always, you know, people having travel blogs and people who were like, you know, kind of idolized, you know, Anthony Bourdain and all these people on the travel channel, you know, my, my, my first crush was like Samantha Brown.
I'm like the, the travel channel, just like kind of a weird thing to admit on a podcast. I feel like. But, um, we just went there. Um, but like what, you know, with the, the pandemic over the last two years with all these businesses going remote, I knew that people were. Um, taking their jobs, whether it was an online business or just remote work and they were traveling around, uh, Between January 20, 21 and June or May, 2021.
I was in Mexico and, um, I was traveling around there and that's where I met all of these people who, you know, they weren't freelancers, they weren't business owners, they were just working. You know, FedEx or something. And they were like not telling their boss that they were in Cancun instead of Memphis, just for example.
Um, and then, you know, I noticed that, but then just out of my own curiosity, I would just YouTube, digital nomads or something. And, you know, there was, um, I forgot who, who made some documentary is like a 30 minute documentary and like digital nomads in Thailand. And I had like 10 million views or four, four or 5 million views.
And I'm like, okay, when people are definitely interested. And so, you know, in part of like my newsletter research was like, I'm just going to go on and read it. And I actually saw that it was like a subreddit for digital nomads and had 1.5 million people in it, which is crazy, which is for me, it's insane.
Cause that's like way more than like the Memphis Grizzlies subreddit, which I'm a part of. It's like half the size of the N the R slash NBA subreddit, which I am always looking at. And I'm like, so people are interested in this and I know it's a lifestyle. And, um, you know, there's one thing I've learned even with like, client work is that if someone.
It's like in love with their lifestyle, with a certain lifestyle. They're not like just liking it. They like, it's almost cultish, you know, it's like people who are into like Brazilian jujitsu. It's like, they're not, they don't just do Brazilian jujitsu. They like are in love with it, you know? Or like people who are.
Who are, uh, interested in opera enough to like join a newsletter. They're not just like interested in opera. They like love that stuff. Um, and so with digital nomadism and like travel, I was like, you know, I just want people who are interested in this lifestyle to be in it. Doesn't have to be like this million person newsletter, um, with a million readers.
It's like, if I can get people who are just interested in catching this and reading this every. And I'm going to like that. And then it was just like my passion, you know, this is when I was burned out and I was like, I just want to create something that I would read and that I would enjoy. Um, and of course it's kind of like changed a little bit over the last, you know, at this 0.8 or nine months.
Um, but yeah, that's kinda how I went to it. I just saw that it is a lifestyle that people, you know, they enjoy and a lot of people want to be a part of, and that I just want to be that guy. I love
to hear it. And it's encouraging, right? Because one of the markers for anything successful in the longterm
is
taking something that seems really unapproachable.
And if you can find a way to make it, bite-sized consumable and a hell of a lot more. We'll make a less of
a barrier to entry to it, I guess, where it's failing me at the moment. That seems to
be really interesting. Right? You mentioned the hustle and that's their big shtick is like, how do we take all of the crazy shit that's going on in daily
business?
Right. Big stuff. Boil it down into 2, 3, 4
minute read, right? That's the daily brew. Um, that's whatever the hell the name of the podcast is that goes out every single morning that I think wall street journal puts out. Right. It's just quick, easy, consistent, and really fast. And something that I think it touches on.
That's really interesting is that we all want to know a hell of a lot more about something, these like really deep niche cult, following
type things. We want to feel a part of them without having to invest
the like five,
10 years that it takes to actually like lead something like that. Right now. I don't say any of that to dog
on it though, because I think it's really cool.
You get to give people shortcuts, somebody who sees digital nomadism as. All of the logistics as all the planning, all the visas, all of everything that comes with that kind of regular travel. And you get to break that down to something that's a hell of a lot more approachable. Right.
So
when people are coming to the nomad newsletter and they're first subscribed, what are some of the things that they learn really quickly, right?
Like what were some of the first things that you learned when it came to making this happen and work for you and what you're going, what you
had. Yeah. I mean, for me, it's anyone who comes in, I think they, they, they can see that becoming a digital nomad is easier than you think that it's a lot more affordable.
Um, like the payer of entry isn't as complicated as. As maybe they expected, you know, I I've had people are like, you know, as I, as I was doing my research, people were like, oh, do I need a visa to, to do this as an American? Can I go to Thailand? Do I need to like, you know, give like a million dollars or something like this.
And, um, all it is. Travel and knowing how long you're staying in the country. Um, and then also knowing your budgeting, you know, and I think that that's something that I, that I cover kind of every week, talking about money, talking about the visas, you know, what's out there. Um, these really sexy digital nomad visas that like dozens of countries are launching.
Um, cause I think even before then I was speaking on other podcasts recently about this and how everyone is just like, you know, work in travel. It's not sustainable. It's not enjoyable. You can't do both, you know, it take your vacation and then go back home and work. Um, but with the nomad, I'm showing examples of people who are making this a real lifestyle.
Not so much as a phase as in like two months of travel, two months of work, but people are building 6, 7, 8 bigger businesses. Nearby a beach in Bali, I say nearby because no one actually works, works on a laptop on the beach, but, um, people are building successful, thriving businesses and teams out there.
Um, but they're not just doing that, but they're, you know, people are just creating really good careers, you know, I think it's great that Airbnb, um, you know, they just allowed. Yeah. They just allow their entire company to work remote. And I thought that was really great. I think Spotify does as well. And they don't like change the bank.
So it's crazy that someone who's getting a salary from like a San Francisco salary, it can be living in Portugal, um, not live like a king or a queen. Um, but you know, that, that's what the newsletter is for is to show that it's, it's a hundred percent possible and there are businesses and people out there to help you do it.
And, you know, within the. Um, you know, I guess welcome sequence. I show my story to show that, you know, any, any new it, and I'm not even like that organized. And, um, and I'm not that great with my money sometimes, you know, I like to splurt on a nice dinner and things like that, but, um, yeah, anyone who joins the newsletter, that that's what it's for is to show that this lifestyle of like work, travel and exploration is 100% possible.
Yeah, it's definitely impressive. And I got a question on this one too. So what's been one of the most impactful things that you've set up inside of your business, right. Instead of the freelance side of things, that's made travel a hell of a lot easier. That's made being able to work. What are you at? Like on average 20 hours,
30 hours in a week.
Oh yeah. So like in terms of like my client work, um, oh yeah, maybe like 20 hours a week. Maybe not even, um, sometimes when it's like. When I'm like really killing it. And I'm like really clear, it's less than less than that. And I'm still like pulling in like, uh, in the five figure range or close to five figure range.
If I really just want to keep it chill. Um, most of my days are really about like creating content. Um, and that's how that's, that's kind of helped with everything like, you know, building an audience. I think we're probably getting into that and how, like building an audience, it's just, I never really built an audience.
Um, As a freelancer and I did speak on podcasts and things like this. Um, but like it's been so, so helpful in my
journey. Yeah, it makes a massive difference. And obviously it's something that I talk a lot about. You guys have listened to any other episodes. You're very familiar with it, but there's always a group of people that you can bring closer to you that accelerates whatever you
do.
Right. Because
the goal isn't necessarily just to start hitting higher milestones it's to do that continuously, because like you mentioned, It's fucking
exhausting. It's just so bad, man. So tired thinking about it.
So it's like, how do you hit a certain point where you can start to make things more sustainable for yourself though, right?
Like those are the kinds of new questions that you can start to ask. It says, Hey, if I'm traveling.
Two times in a month.
And I know that I'm only going to be able to be available, or I only really want to be available two days out of the fucking week, but what systems can I put in place to make those kinds of things happen?
Right. And I think what's interesting and why I'm excited to learn a lot more just by being on the newsletter and watching your
content is that most of the systems
people talk about are really just geared towards driving more clients, driving more revenue, driving, more sales, making your ship more affordable, hiring a team, right.
They don't have a lot to do. Less hours probably pack this point that I've chosen into 10 hours in a week. Right. Cause
that's the oppressive shit. So what are some of those things for you? Yeah. I mean, for me, it's like, it's one getting, it's getting really clear on what my lifestyle and like my work life, you know, what is that, you know, do I want to work with 8, 9, 10 clients?
Like I was last year was the money. Great. Yeah, it was fantastic, but didn't really do anything in regards to like actually creating my experience. Like any better. Not really. I was still like frugal, cause I'm like just that kind of guy. So one thing that kind of like, maybe it's a system or a mindset.
It's just, you know, working with people who, you know, match my rate, who are high paying and are easy to work with. Um, I'm not necessarily sure if that's like a system, but it is something that I've kind of, I always abide by, you know, no matter what, no matter who contacts me to work, it's like, is this person going to ping me all day?
Uh, or if I tell them. No, this is my criteria of working with me. Like, um, can, can we agree to this? You know, can you agree to not message me on a Saturday or Sunday? Can we agree to not doing calls after 4:00 PM? Um, that has helped me, um, really bring in. The people I want to work with in, you know, only do projects that are actually really quick, um, really high paying or, you know, working on retainer with, you know, clients that are very, very, very low maintenance.
Um, and it took me a while, you know, and it didn't take a lot of like saying no, um, to people who otherwise would have been a great opportunity, but, um, Yeah. I mean, that's, it's just being very clear on what I want my work and to my life know, in my life outside of work to look like, um, you know, of course, like some of that includes outsourcing certain things, using different softwares to, for scheduling.
You know, I do have, um, like a junior, right. Who who helps me with, uh, some of my client work. Um, and you know, she also does some of my email implementation. So just having a VA and outsourcing the stuff that like, I really don't want to do, like after I write my, my Friday newsletter, which has a lot of links and a lot of images and I use active campaign, for example, and I hate, I hate it because it's so laggy and it kills me.
And I just want to, like, not sometimes I just don't want to do it. I let her handle it because, you know, I would much rather write maybe an email for my. Or continue writing for myself rather than do that. And so that's helped me a whole lot, like, you know, taking my, you know, taking work that would probably take me another hour or two a day.
Um, and then, you know, not doing it and just sticking to about an hour and a half, two hours tops.
Yeah. That makes a ton of sense. And I
think it hits on something.
Anyone going into their own operations, whether it be freelance or that you're building out an agency, no matter what the hell it is that you're
doing is
really, really watching your time and getting insanely fucking protective about it.
Like, like the, the, the pit bullish nature that I have when someone asks for my time, I'd like, I have to really dial it back because it does become a healthy reflex, but like kicking it off. What were some of the things then maybe this probably started when you're teaching. Right. Um, but what were some
of the things that
I don't know, like you talked about burnout and I guess that's a pretty interesting way to look at it is what do you think pushed you over the edge, right?
Like what were you doing that finally started to tip everything? Was it just taken on too much is saying yes, too much.
Yeah, I was just saying yes, too much. Now everything that I am, I am fairly good at now, you know, I'm not perfect. I do, I do protect my time pretty well, but you know, there are times in which I take the call at at seven or I take the call at eight only if I really liked if I really liked the client.
I mean, I like everybody I'm working with now. So if they are like, Hey, can we just get on a kind of quick one at seven? I'm like, yeah, for sure. But there was a time in which I was just saying yes to everything and it didn't matter be relationship I had with them. It didn't matter. They seem like they were going to be a problem client.
Uh didn't matter. Like, I don't know. I would just say yes. You know, and like, there were times I think when was this? This was like October, not last year, but I mean, maybe October 20, 20 before I went to Mexico, when I was like, I had a client, he was like in Pacific standard time and you know, they're nine hours behind, but one time he was like, you're going to call it my comment to.
I don't think 2:00 PM. Oh shit. That's 11:00 PM my time. And I was like, yeah, I'll go, I'll do it. And like, you know, my girlfriend's asleep and I'm tired and we're going over. Like you, you were critiquing my YouTube ad scripts. Um, and I'm like, what am I doing with my life? Like, what is this? You know? And then like, um, you know, there were times where I just like didn't, I didn't like defend myself when it gained to Doug overwork, you know?
And there were times early. I worked with an agency for a little while, you know, writing some emails and scripts and stuff. And like, I don't know, they're man, their managerial team was just sending me like. Projects that are due day of, and I'm like, I don't even know the client. Like I can't do this, but then I would try to do it anyways.
And, you know, work, you know, a six, seven hours of work would turn into 8, 9, 10, 11, and then for no reason. Um, but like, that's what pushed me over the edge because, you know, maybe you feel that you're very productive, that you feel like such a beast doing all of this work and maybe you are, but like you're also human and that, you know, I felt that eventually.
I was going to hit that tipping point. And I did in which like, bam that's when in July I was just sick of it. I was like, what's the point? Like I'm making good money, but I don't really care for. I don't really like, you know, my, uh, um, under a bunch of NDAs. So I can't even claim that I'm working with these people or I'm doing the work.
So like, I'm like, I can't get recognition. I think I'm just learning a lesson right now. And that's what I did. I learned the lesson, you know, it took them a month and a half off and was like, okay, what is the next, what do I want to do next? That's going to be great for me. Um, but yeah, just saying yes to everything.
It's tough, which is like, was just crazy. It was, I had just finished doing like mindset coaching and it was almost like the end of like, you know, the heat, like a movie, like, you know, all the, all the heroes are together and they've learned all of these lessons, but they had like one final battle with the bad guy.
And like, that was like my final battle with the bad guys, like using all of my lessons that I learned, um, working with Linda Perry, who was great. And, um, Like realizing what I, you know, what, what was possible, what is possible and doing that. But yeah, I mean just saying yes to everything was just so bad.
And I say mostly no to things now, just at my desk.
It's funny how often that comes up as a marker. Right? It's like, that seems to be a turning point for most people. There's a lot of saying yes, as you're building things up and, but you're not even necessarily proven anything to anybody else. It's just self proof.
Like, yeah, I can do everything if I want. But fuck that. That's, that's awful.
Um,
and I think it's a good point to cut off toleration, right? It's like everything that you will tolerate is eventually going to take over. And so drawing that line in the sand is, is absolutely huge. I want to shift more over into the mode nomad portion brother, because obviously that's the, uh, most interesting for a lot of people when it comes to what you have going on and it's damn impressive.
And so I'll kick it off with a cheesy one. What's the best place you've been selling.
Oh man. I think the best place I've been so far while I love with cush and I love it so much. I got residency here. I've been here forever and it is my home base. I think objectively, I think if I was to take a step back, I would still think it's Budapest.
If you're the type of, if you're a city person and you like the city vibes, he like cafes and bars and restaurants and clubs. Um, but you like architecture everywhere. It's like number one. I mean, this place is absolutely stunning. It's, it's weird that I'm even considering leaving. Um, and I think anyone who's been here can just falls in love with it.
You know, they, they say that it's, it's, it's something that like every, every corner you turn around and it's something beautiful and it's also just fun. I mean, it's, you know, the whole, like they just left. So if a union or whatever in the late eighties. And so they have this, all the young people have this cool, vibrant energy there, it's a very inviting and they want you to hang out.
They want to travel to your country. They, they, um, you know, they want to party all night and get to know you, which is really great. Um, I guess like a close second would be like Barcelona, just because it's, as the sea has the city vibes, it has the mountains. Um, and it's like, understandable. Learn Spanish.
It's really fun. Hungarian is like one of the most difficult languages in the world, but I would say those two are really, really good. And I'm pretty, I'm really honored. I could say I've lived in both. So, and you mentioned considered leaving, right?
So what other places are on the list next potentially right now?
Or do you have something locked in? Yeah, so
I wouldn't say locked in at this point. If they're being may 20, 22, my, I have my, an application to move. Um, and that's because Portugal does have like a digital nomad visa, um, which allows me to live there for like two years and I can renew it pretty easily.
Um, I think Spain also has a, like, there's a lot of countries that have been to him at beaches, but this one is like, they called it the digital nomad visa, but it's just their like freelancer visa that they've had forever. Um, which like a lot of Americans have and, uh, Apparently a lot of like tax lawyers know all about, they can help me out with that.
Um, the whole thing with here in Hungary is like crazy. So, um, yeah, I'm gonna go there and hopefully, you know, live by the live by the sea and have a good life writing copy and emails and ride my bike around the beach. So that's the goal and showing everybody else so they can pull it off and do the same.
Yeah, that's it, that's a, that's the main thing, you know? I mean, that's the, I think it's just so doable now. I think it's one thing is like, I always find very, it's always interesting with people is like, we're so stuck in our own minds and our own experiences that we forget that, um, not many people know what it's like and you know, you're, you're the expert and you know how easy it can be, but that not a lot of people know.
So yeah. I'm hoping to, to inspire and show people that it's.
Yeah, let's talk a little bit more about that. Obviously don't spoil everything that, you know, starts coming in when people do join the list. And I want to keep all the newsletter content at nice and fresh. Right. But what are some of the first things that you would start telling anybody who is interested in it?
Who's considering it who maybe they're even five or six fucking years out from it.
It's just something that's absolutely
brand new to them, but seems appealing because they're just done. They're burnt out during
the
same place that you were with their day job. Yeah. Yeah. I mean the first thing I would say that it's, it's very, it's a lot more, what's the word I'm looking for it convenient.
Um, then one would think, you know, I've had people be like, oh, well, I like when people speak English, will it be easy to travel around? How can I order a restaurants? How can I no. Most of these places, especially if you, if you stay even close, like a city center or like a very like well-populated area, people speak English, um, people, you know, the, the menus are, you know, they have an English section.
Um, you know, of course I'm not talking about like someplace supports. If you, if you go to a smaller town and things like this, they're not going to have that. But if you're a completely new and you want to get your feet wet, consider like going to, um, like a mid to big size. Um, without like a somewhat of a tourist section, then you could dip your feet in that, you know, that's going to be your first taste, so you can see what's out there.
Um, you know, I know people out in Asia who, you know, they're, they just been living in Bali and in Thailand for years. Cause they're like, yeah, I mean, everyone's here to help, you know, they're super friendly. So that's the thing. And people are friendly. Um, if you're like a. You know, if you're a total newbie to this, like don't be afraid of other people.
Um, cause people are helpful, you know, of course are assholes in every country. I mean, there's assholes in Memphis. Um, so, you know, that's, that comes with the territory, but there are people who are just excited to show you around. Um, you know, do the basics, go to Airbnb, go to Airbnb experiences. Um, and.
Just explore that way. It's just so easy and so doable now. Um, and there are way, you know, there are groups and companies that literally help you, like thrive in that, this lifestyle.
And when you were kicking off, did you dive right in? Did you like go and do a full month in somewhere brand new? Like what did that look like?
That was bouncing around. I mean, I was like, I was in Budapest and I based myself here. And I was like, I was just doing on like week trips to Belgium, to Spain, um, and all around. When I go in like Slovakia, I go ski trips and like Slovakia and stuff like this. Um, I lied, I didn't ski because I'm like so scared of like sliding.
So, um, and then I had like a very traumatic experience and like this Lavaca and mountains where I've, it was very like, it was like, Um, where I was just like freezing cold. I was wearing like air Jordans and on snow and no traction and it was just bad. Um, but like, that was my thing was like at first I was like these week long trips, just because being in Budapest, it's, it's so easy to, to bounce around and go to different countries.
And like, you know, I'd spend like a week in Vienna. Um, and you know, I'd go to Italy and things like that. Um, eventually I would take like longer trips and then even dive into like the states, which I never really have done before. Um, and so, yeah, I mean, at first it was just like these little quick trips.
Just I can just, I can get accustomed to this lifestyle.
Yeah, definitely. I got to imagine it can be a lot
to
get used. Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. I mean, it's the same for me. I was kind of like afraid as well. I was like so big, like cities or these countries are so intimidating, um, or people are going to be nice.
You know, well, I even like it it's things like this, but it's, it's, it's more doable than, than, than most people think. Um, and all it is, you're just living in another place. So you don't even have to explore if you're the type of person who you just enjoy going on, walks on something like European street and like seeing the architecture and that's you like, that's it.
There's no rules to like no Madison. I know families who, you know, they don't go to. The parties. They literally just travel around and homeschool their kids and yeah, they live in Montana today and then Paris next month. There's no real estate, not, I think that's the biggest kicker.
Right? And to one of the things that a lot of people over assume is the downside.
Um, so seeing this from the perspective of like, we went and planned to do a year full-time on the road, just in the states, um, or growing all this out last September and we made it through November. And decided it was a good time to come back. We got a little one, we want her to go to school,
whatever wasn't was an easy decision for us at
the time, squeeze back.
And that was the biggest thing we're worried about the whole time though. Um, and so what a thing is really interesting in that a lot of folks could consider if this is something you're looking into doing whatever else it is. It's not that hard to just go back to where you were before,
you know, and even if you
do your.
Miles ahead of where you would have been otherwise, had you not gone. Right? I think one of the biggest motivating factors for me,
anytime we make a big decision is. What's the
worst case scenario and is that worse potentially than the regret of not having attempted to do it. And when it comes to travel for so many people, that's a huge one.
Right? How many 80 year olds, 90 year olds Dean
meet where one of their dying
wishes is to go see somewhere, right? It's to kick this thing off. And it's something that we reserve typically for later on in life, you know, at least. People in the U S we tend to reserve long-term and regular travel for our fifties or sixties, or whenever else it may be that you think you're retired.
Right. And you've got the time to do it. And like the biggest downside, if you overlook that, is that you're less equipped to enjoy all that shit at that point. Anyhow, two. You know, and so I think it's really cool to see what you're doing,
which
you're
helping other folks do, where you're getting so much more fulfillment earlier on and helping them flip the script on that.
Right. Because that is one of the biggest parts about it is like shifting that frame of frame of mind.
Yeah, for sure. For sure. And it's also like, I don't know where in like a crazy time right now where, you know, you could take a. You know, being from Memphis, like I can take a two and a half hour flight to JFK, New York and then take a six hour flight and I'm in London.
Right. It's like, it's so easy, you know? I mean, it's not, you know, sometimes it would take me longer to drive to new Orleans than it would to get to London. And it's like, you know, we're think. We're in a time where we're so lucky that we can explore and people are so nice to let you stay in their Airbnb, or they are excited to spend an afternoon to show you, you know, vineyards in Portugal or something like that.
Or, you know, to invite you over for dinner in Mexico and things. And, you know, to have these experiences, you know, our grandparents, it's something that they couldn't fathom, you know, Likely if they came to Europe, they were fighting an award, um, or something like that. And we are not fighting in a war.
We're fighting over wifi in, which is like not a tragedy. Right. So, um, I think it's one of those things that I think everyone should try, you know, even if it's like a three-month thing and you're like, oh, okay. You know, maybe they're paying rent somewhere. And it's like, oh, okay. I'll, I'll pay the rent, the monthly rent, or I'll sublease my place.
And I'll just try it. Let's try this lifestyle out. Um, and you don't even have to go to Mexico. So you don't even have to go to, if you're from the states, like I would say don't make it even easier to just go to Mexico. That's where a lot of people are. Um, but you don't even have to do anything too crazy, just like two months, travel around and get a, your real path here in Europe and bounce around to the bigger cities and, um, you know, do work in a cafe or a co-worker.
Um, you know, trying to meet people, see if it's for you, maybe in two months, you're going to be like, you know what, fuck, this kind of wants to go home and stay on my couch. And at least you tried it and at least, you know, but I know people who who've tried it and they're still out know, I actually have a friend from my university.
Um, and she was like, oh, I just went to. Costa Rica for two months. And I was like, oh yeah, how's that? And she's like, oh, it's been great. It's been nine months since I even went to Costa Rica and I'm in, I've just been dropped. I've left. She's like, I'm my French boyfriend now. And I'm in Budapest. I'm like, yeah.
I mean, you ever going to go home? She's like, probably not. I think this is me now. All right. Love it. So I think anyone should just try it. I mean, this is the timing what's travel. Um, and having an experience like this is like so easy. So go for it. I say, just go for. I think there's something to knowing that you're choosing to be wherever the hell you are, whether that's at home, where you've always grown
up, whether
that's
four or five, six different countries in the span of a year, there's a lot of freedom and actively choosing to do so.
And not simply staying there because that's where you've always been. Right? Or, well, that's where it's cheap or what's easiest.
Yeah. Yeah, I think that's, I think that's probably one of the cooler things about it is like, you know, as a nomad, as long as you do your research, you can literally go anywhere.
Um, and you know, B, I think it's crazy how, like, there are different types of like these destinations, you can go to the big cities like Budapest or Barcelona, which are a huge for, um, you know, or Berlin, which are huge for online business people. Um, but then if you want it to, you could go someplace, you know, a lot chiller, a lot sleepier, you know, maybe you want to just go to a chill surf town like us Candido and Mexico.
Um, or you want to go to the mountain. Bulgaria called, uh, in Benco, which right now is like actually a thriving, like nomad community. They have like housing for nomads and the coworking space or the Internet's really kick ass. Um, and you can just choose to go anywhere. I mean, I have a friend who he's, um, Hungarian American and he lives in he's from Florida, but now he lives in Barcelona.
And he just bounces around, I think because of his work spends like a week here and a week there, I'm just like, where you going now, Argentina? You know? And then the next day, you know, the next time he was like, yeah, I'm just going to go. I'm going to France for a little bit. Or I'm just going to go back to Miami.
I'm like, all right, well, I like the difference there. Miami is not like, it is exotic in a way, but like it's not Barcelona. And you know, he, he does this because he can't, um, I mean, I think each gravel, you try this LaSalle out. You're going to find this place that really resonate with you. You can go to.
Before we close out, I want to do two things. One. I want to ask where the hell people can go to find you where they can go to get on the nomad newsletter and get access to all the crazy stories.
But also on top of that, to all the great things that you're teaching people who are building a freelance business, that they can borrow
from everything that you've seen
work so far. So, where can they go to find you
Francis? Yeah, you can find me at, it's pretty easy@thenomadandnewsletter.com. I'm right there.
If you join my email list, I have a little, little freebie for you. Seven ways to get a high paying online clients for free. Um, and yet, you know, join the, the several thousand aspiring and current digital nomad freelancers are trying to fill, you know, who I'm teaching to live freely and company. Traveling and working all around the world.
Um, and yeah, you can also find me on Twitter, like Francis underscore. Nyan trying to grow that Twitter profile. So find me there and retweet me. Yeah. But love is. Yeah,
no, it's been an absolute blast. And then the closer everybody gets it, I want to hear what yours is. If there's one thing that you wish you would've known earlier on when you started out freelancing or whether that be teaching English and traveling,
what do you think that would be?
Uh, I think it's definitely that everyone is just winging it, man. Like everyone who is just like, everyone just is just doing their best and they have no idea, you know, and not to be scared of anyone. Um, And to, uh, yeah. Just know that we're all human and that we all have levels of imposter syndrome, no matter how successful you are.
So that's something I wish I knew because then I would have taken bigger risks and you know, said hello to more people.
Love it. Love to hear it. Well, it's been a
blast having you on the show. Thank you so much. I know
everybody listening. Absolutely loved it, but until next time, cause I'd love to have you back on again.
