Double Jay Double You

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[00:00:00] Nate: Hello everybody and welcome back to talking about Birds. The only Cardinal podcast that like Ryan Stanek Can't Stay in the Zone. My name is Nate Heininger and I'm joined by my co-host Vince Orca.

[00:00:16] ben: What is up Nathan?

[00:00:21] Nate: If you have an idea for the opening bit, text or leave us a voicemail at 8 4 8 48 birds. Or you can submit it via the bird. Scored like a friend of the show, C 70 did for this one. Um, stay in the zone. What do you think? Are we ever in the zone?

[00:00:41] ben: Uh, calzones, AutoZone, um, discovery Zone.

[00:00:46] Nate: oh shit. Okay.

[00:00:47] ben: I don't

[00:00:47] Nate: green.

[00:00:48] ben: like.

[00:00:48] Nate: Green Hill Zone.

[00:00:49] ben: There you go. Uh, I was actually, I was listening to the Sonic

[00:00:53] Nate: what are some other famous, what's that?

[00:00:56] ben: I was listening to the Sonic soundtrack very recently, [00:01:00] rocking out.

[00:01:00] Nate: it's, it's a classic, um, one of the best overall soundtracks for video games. I think ever. Michael Jackson had a hand in it, which we love. Everyone loves Michael Jackson, definitely. A cool guy who did cool things. Um,

[00:01:19] ben: an unproblematic King Nathan.

[00:01:23] Nate: yeah, king of pop. King of pop. Uh, let's see. Zone, I think, I think we landed on, on good zones there. I, uh, actually speaking of Sonic, uh, did you see the, the Sonic Popup Cafe that's going around? Is there gonna be one in Denver?

[00:01:41] ben: I

[00:01:41] Nate: Do you know what I'm talking about?

[00:01:43] ben: Nope.

[00:01:43] Nate: Do you know what I'm talking about though?

[00:01:45] ben: Uh, no. Do you want me to say it again? I.

[00:01:49] Nate: Um, there is a like popup, um, restaurant going around that is Sonic the hedgehog themes where you go and get like co uh, chili [00:02:00] dogs and onion rings that are supposed to be like the golden rings and things like that.

[00:02:05] ben: That's good.

[00:02:06] Nate: Uh. Pretty sure this is for children, um, for a lot of reasons. Uh, but I think me and your brother are gonna go to it, so that sounds fun.

[00:02:15] ben: a chili dog is a man's game. You know, that's not for children.

[00:02:20] Nate: Did you, do you know, so we all know that line from that song sucking on a chili dog.

[00:02:25] ben: know it.

[00:02:27] Nate: Um, and it evokes absolutely insane imagery, of course, sucking on a chili dog. Um, did you know that that is actually in the town that he grew up in? Whatever his name was. Uh, their, basically, their equivalent of Slurpees was called Chili Dogs.

[00:02:48] ben: Did know.

[00:02:48] Nate: So it,

[00:02:49] ben: recently learned that.

[00:02:50] Nate: yeah.

[00:02:51] ben: but it doesn't make the line any better.

[00:02:55] Nate: Well, it makes it make a lot more sense. Does it make it better? I don't know. But sucking on a [00:03:00] chili dog uh, makes a lot more sense when you know it's a slurpee and not like a hot dog covered in chili.

[00:03:05] ben: Yeah, but you also, like you're slurping up those chili dogs. So I

[00:03:11] Nate: Yeah.

[00:03:11] ben: I thought it worked either way. I thought it was fine. Not a big John Cougar Mellencamp household over here. Um, so I try not to think about these types of things.

[00:03:22] Nate: Okay. Well, where do you land on chili dogs?

[00:03:25] ben: So you may remember this when we were. Young and had very little money.

[00:03:30] Nate: Uhhuh.

[00:03:31] ben: lived down the street from a seven 11

[00:03:34] Nate: Yes.

[00:03:35] ben: and I think a hack, a poor, like a young man hack that we

[00:03:41] Nate: Uhhuh.

[00:03:41] ben: is that you could get a hot dog, you could get a chili dog, and there was no limit to how much chili and cheese you could put on that hotdog.

So you

[00:03:48] Nate: I remember.

[00:03:49] ben: Buy a hot dog and then basically full, like make a boat of chili and cheese around that hot dog, essentially doubling or tripling your meal value in my, my point [00:04:00] of view. So I, I, I think at one point it was maybe a staple of my diet and an important part of my life.

[00:04:09] Nate: it's got all the important food groups in there.

[00:04:11] ben: Yeah.

I don't know if I could tell you the last time I crushed a chili

[00:04:15] Nate: know we used to joke because of that seemingly, uh, you know, deeply lucrative loophole that we had uncovered that there, there's no established limit on cheese. We had discussed going up there with like a gallon empty milk jug

[00:04:29] ben: Yeah,

[00:04:29] Nate: filling it with cheese and being like, Hey, you didn't say we couldn't fill this with cheese.

[00:04:34] ben: say anywhere in the rules that I can't bring this Gatorade jug.

[00:04:38] Nate: The hey dogs. It doesn't say dogs can't play basketball. It doesn't say we can't, uh, just fill up containers of cheese.

[00:04:48] ben: Yeah, when I, uh, I was at Coachella a couple of weeks ago, you know, and, uh, you have to go

[00:04:53] Nate: Brag.

[00:04:54] ben: get your license checked and they put a, a, a tag on you so you can drink beer.

[00:04:58] Nate: Yeah.

[00:04:59] ben: upon [00:05:00] the, uh, there was two people who were checking IDs and they were mid heated conversation about whether or not Air Bud is good, if those movies are good. I had to interrupt that. I was like, Hey, can you.

[00:05:13] Nate: Hey. Hey. Hi. That's, that sounds, uh, yeah. They're both high as fuck.

[00:05:18] ben: Yeah.

[00:05:18] Nate: forgotten their jobs. Um, and are, I mean, that sounds like a good debate. I have not. Seen Air Budd, uh, since it was contemporary. I will say I have seen all of the spinoff, air Budd Universe movies of what are known as the Buddies,

[00:05:38] ben: Yeah.

[00:05:38] Nate: which is a, uh, a bunch of dogs, bunch of puppies that are the buddies.

They're, they're, I think they're supposed to be the puppies of the original Air Budd.

[00:05:49] ben: Right.

[00:05:50] Nate: and they're all voiced by children, and they all have, there's like the jock dog, there's like uncomfortably the like, [00:06:00] like ghetto rapper dog, you know, that set that is, uh, funny, I guess. Uh, there's like the princess dog, you know, and they get into escapades and, uh, they're fun.

[00:06:13] ben: Okay. Got a

[00:06:18] Nate: there's so funny.

[00:06:18] ben: on your hands over there, Nate.

[00:06:21] Nate: Hilariously, this is before I had kids that I wa that we watched all these movies.

[00:06:26] ben: nothing strange about that whatsoever.

[00:06:30] Nate: Uh, Dietrich Bader's in one of 'em. Um, John Ratzenberger is in a bunch of 'em, so, you know,

[00:06:35] ben: Okay.

[00:06:35] Nate: there's some funny, there's some funny people in 'em.

[00:06:37] ben: me out of it, pal.

[00:06:39] Nate: I think you'd like. Um, I, I have a question for you. Uh, I saw you, you, you posted in the Bird score that you went to a Nuggets game. Um, I assume knowing you, I assume this is some sort of weird chicken nugget game that you and your friends play, like who can eat the most chicken [00:07:00] nuggets?

Who can make the bet? Maybe you're doing some sort of top chef thing where you're trying to make chicken nuggets. Could you, could you tell me more about the nuggets game?

[00:07:08] ben: Yeah, we're, uh, doing kind of like a Top Chef style

[00:07:12] Nate: Oh, okay. Yes. And

[00:07:14] ben: flew in Tom Ccio at great expense.

[00:07:18] Nate: yeah.

[00:07:19] ben: and

[00:07:19] Nate: that a, is that a known nuggets guy? Did you just drop

[00:07:23] ben: and, uh, the, the

[00:07:25] Nate: okay.

[00:07:25] ben: Chef you idiot.

[00:07:26] Nate: Gotcha.

[00:07:26] ben: And a, a renowned chef and restaurateur, um, and knife manufacturer maybe. Um, but yeah,

[00:07:34] Nate: What can't he do?

[00:07:35] ben: we had 30 minutes in the kitchen.

Uh, you know, the pantry was ours and we threw down and, uh, you know, you'll have to watch next week to see the results.

[00:07:44] Nate: Wow. Well, what a, what a branded spot. This is exciting. Um, what are you looking for in a good nugget when you get nuggets?

[00:07:53] ben: Crispy baby.

[00:07:54] Nate: Yeah. Yeah. Great. Same. [00:08:00] All right. Well, I'm glad I asked. That sounds really, uh, that sounds really interesting. I can't wait for your national broadcast TV debut.

[00:08:07] ben: This is a great conversation we're having.

[00:08:09] Nate: I mean, unless you have anything else to say about the Nuggets game, we can move on and get into, uh, get into Cardinals.

[00:08:15] ben: I, I, I, okay, Nate, let's settle down for one. Damn second.

[00:08:20] Nate: I'm, I'm settled.

[00:08:21] ben: Slow your roll. Something that was very fun and baseball relevant at the Nuggets game. We went to a basketball game after the competition just as like a little celebratory

[00:08:33] Nate: sure. Yeah.

[00:08:34] ben: and in the, apparently I did not know this, I'm not a huge NBA fan, but we just saw some cheap tickets and went to the game and it's the playoffs and yay fun Nuggets won, um, the beginning of the second half. who. Takes a seat in front of us. Uh, but Alex Rodriguez walking down the court looking like he was stuffed into a tailored blue suit. [00:09:00] Swollen as ever, and, uh, kind of does a, you know, polite wave. Polite wave. And, and

[00:09:04] Nate: Yeah,

[00:09:05] ben: and takes his seat. And, uh, obviously I was shocked to see. Alex Rodriguez and Mary

[00:09:10] Nate: sure.

[00:09:11] ben: like, if there was ever an opportunity for me to tackle a Alex Rodriguez, now is the time, you know, he's in a suit.

His back's turned to me. kind of discussing whether or not I could actually do it. 'cause I feel like he might still just be able to,

[00:09:23] Nate: I think you just bounce,

[00:09:24] ben: him,

[00:09:25] Nate: I think you just bounce right off of him

[00:09:27] ben: I went for the knee and maybe had a weapon, I think I could get him and, and he did not know.

[00:09:31] Nate: from behind.

[00:09:32] ben: yeah,

[00:09:33] Nate: think.

[00:09:34] ben: saying.

[00:09:34] Nate: Yeah, if you go at the legs from behind, I think you can probably bring him down.

[00:09:40] ben: Yeah,

[00:09:40] Nate: Uh, but I think there's a chance you break your shoulder in the, in the, uh, process.

[00:09:44] ben: and it would be worth it, I think. Um, not that I particularly have a, a, you know, really negative feelings about Arod, but he just has one of those Um, but anyways, I thought that that was very funny. That was the most exciting part of the game to me, even though the nuggets won and everybody was enjoying [00:10:00] that, but

[00:10:00] Nate: so you were sitting, he was right in front of you.

[00:10:04] ben: Uh, he, he was in front of us by, uh, 38 rows or something like

[00:10:08] Nate: Okay. Just saying, you're saying I've

[00:10:10] ben: but

[00:10:11] Nate: some cheap tickets. I just stumbled upon some court side. Front row playoff game tickets.

[00:10:16] ben: were, they were very, they were nice tickets for sure, but they weren't, they weren't that

[00:10:19] Nate: Wow.

[00:10:20] ben: had a, all I had to do was get up from my

[00:10:22] Nate: Big timing in us.

[00:10:23] ben: aisle, and I

[00:10:24] Nate: Yeah.

[00:10:24] ben: you know, it, it's, I, I

[00:10:27] Nate: there,

[00:10:27] ben: than a minute

[00:10:28] Nate: ham,

[00:10:28] ben: R.

[00:10:29] Nate: bone samora from talking about birds. Uh, do you think if I had tackled you from behind you, I would've been capable of bringing you down? What's your take? Shoving your phone into his face?

[00:10:38] ben: I'll get you next time. Alex Rodriguez.

[00:10:41] Nate: all right. Uh, well, should we talk about the Cardinals,

[00:10:46] ben: I guess

[00:10:47] Nate: I guess to, I guess we have to. We actually don't have to.

[00:10:51] ben: we

[00:10:51] Nate: This is our show. We don't have to, we can just, we can just, you wanna just stop the pod? Release it. Nine minute episode. [00:11:00] I think we got outta this episode. What anybody needs.

[00:11:02] ben: Yeah, I mean, we talked cio, we talked to Arod. What else are we supposed to talk?

[00:11:09] Nate: Yeah. Yeah. Um, all right, well, the Cardinals are 16 and 13, placing them in third place of the, uh, very competitive in El Central. Uh, last week we talked about how they have yet to play any games against a team that was above 500. They have now played two games. Against a team that is above 500, and that is the Pi Pittsburgh Pirates who they have beat to in a row.

Um, so highlighting the fact that everybody in the NL central is above 500, uh, which is interesting. Um, we'll see how long that lasts.

[00:11:48] ben: Yeah, I mean we finally played a inter division game.

[00:11:53] Nate: yeah.

[00:11:54] ben: Got the brew crew coming up, uh, as a part of this long 17 game stretch that's happening right now. [00:12:00] So finally the NL Central is playing, uh, each other and yeah, I think it really, more than anything just speaks to, um, how early we still are in the season.

You know, like, are, are the Phillies gonna be last in the East at the end of the season? Are Pittsburgh gonna be last? And the central with an over 500, like, you know, all of this stuff is still so fresh and it takes like a couple of hot streaks to really. change. Um,

[00:12:24] Nate: Yeah.

[00:12:25] ben: but yeah, I think like the NL Central's in a weird spot right now.

I, I don't really like, I, I think the standings are gonna look very different in a month.

[00:12:36] Nate: Yeah. Uh, certainly there's gonna be 30 more games played, so just I.

[00:12:41] ben: a, what a great, yeah. I didn't even think about that.

[00:12:43] Nate: They'll have to be different.

[00:12:44] ben: They should be.

[00:12:46] Nate: yeah. Uh, the Cardinals are from a run scoring standpoint, um, kind of right there with everybody in the NL Central. Um, uh, but, uh. From a run, uh, runs a [00:13:00] loud standpoint, uh, that is what is essentially driving them, having the only negative run differential in the, uh, uh, in L Central as well.

So, um, we've talked about it a bunch already. Um, obviously the pitching is, uh, the problem, the score, the offense is better than we expected already coming into this young season. Uh, so we'll see how this continues to go. Um. Who do you want to talk about first? Well, when we, well, we dig into some individuals.

[00:13:28] ben: I think we got to. Talk about Nathan Church. Um, I think he was the Cardinal's player of the week this week. Um, he was extremely productive on both sides of the ball. And you know, over the past two weeks he's really turned around his season. He had that great start opening day, kind of fell into a deep black hole. And then over the past week and a half, two weeks, he's really turned himself around. He is got three homers this week. He robbed another home run.

[00:13:57] Nate: Yeah.

[00:13:59] ben: [00:14:00] And I think like it's hard to say 'cause we're still talking about so few actual plate appearances and it's really easy to ride the rollercoaster, especially when the rollercoaster is exciting as like a, we're talking about a four home run swing in one in one

[00:14:15] Nate: Yeah. Right.

[00:14:16] ben: who's like, I don't know, is he a quad a player? Is he a fourth outfielder? Is he actually are? Left fielder center fielder going forward. I like, there's so many questions about Nathan Church, but I, I wanted to talk about a couple of things that we can say he is doing differently, um, even though we only have a, a very, uh, small amount of games, if that, that's okay with you, Nate.

[00:14:43] Nate: Uh, you may proceed.

[00:14:45] ben: George played 27 games last year. Right now, uh, he's at 26 games played. He's already eclipsed his played appearance total from last year. Um, but to be clear, we're talking about 83, played appearances. It's

[00:14:57] Nate: Right.

[00:14:58] ben: small sample size, but, [00:15:00] uh, you know, obviously too early to really tell anything. But two or a couple of interesting notes, uh, is that we've already seen a two plus mile per hour increase on his. speed, which is great. We love to see that all, all the swing speed you can fit while still, uh, kind of maintaining your approach is, is great. Um, and his fast swing rate has shot up. It was 6% last year, again, in very limited time to 17% this time, meaning that he is swinging his a swing. His his. 75 mile per hour plus swing 17% of the time as opposed to 6% of the time last time.

So he's swinging. Obviously we're seeing the power show up. Um, all of his numbers look outside of that look pretty close. He's striking out a little bit less. Um, but we're seeing great power. The Babi is really not in his favor right now for a guy who is hitting it relatively hard and has his kind of speed. Um. I, I think we're seeing a lot of [00:16:00] things that he has clearly made a point to change and to focus on. Uh, and we're seeing some early results so far, so it's, it's pretty cool.

[00:16:10] Nate: Yeah, the, that bat speed you might be thinking, oh, uh, you know, a 71 to 73 average, like, oh, a two mile per hour average increase is not that much. Um, but it actually is a pretty fundamental change to someone's overall, um, underlying metrics in, in that regard. Um, I think it was, so Bryce Turang set like the record last year for biggest increase season to season in bat speed, which is of course something that's only been measured at this level for a couple years now.

So it's not like. We have years and years of data, but in this small sample size, Bryce Turang increased his bat speed by something like four miles per hour, maybe three. And that was the largest single increase season over season that we've seen. And Bryce Turang has turned himself into [00:17:00] one of the better overall hitters in baseball because he's added some power to his generally good.

Um, average approach is generally good plate approach. Uh, and so it shows that even just a few miles per hour increase can be a significant. Change and have a significant impact on your, uh, your power and your overall offensive profile. So if you're looking at Nathan Church and you're like, is this just a hot streak or is there a fundamental change that is resulting in this?

There's certainly evidence that would suggest it's an actual change. Um, and that doesn't mean these results are gonna continue and that he's all of a sudden, uh, a power hitting beast who's gonna play good, good defense and hit 25 bombs or something like that. I'm not saying that, but there's at least some evidence that this is, uh, growth, um, and improvement and not just like, uh, a random sample of 60 at at bats or whatever.

[00:17:57] ben: Yeah, I think seeing a 25-year-old [00:18:00] like semi toolsy center fielder show some. Improvement that we can measure is, is super exciting. And the fact that he isn't striking out constantly, you know, he's, he's like, I think I said this earlier, he's decreased his strikeout percentage by almost five per, uh, five points

[00:18:17] Nate: Yeah.

[00:18:17] ben: year.

So he is swinging harder, swinging harder, more often, striking out less. And then, like you were

[00:18:24] Nate: It's a great recipe for improvement.

[00:18:26] ben: keep doing that. If,

[00:18:27] Nate: Yeah.

[00:18:28] ben: player could do that,

[00:18:29] Nate: Yeah.

[00:18:30] ben: they would, obviously it's not easy. Um, but he's also a great base runner. He's also a very good defender. He has a very good arm.

There's like a lot to like about everything that he is doing. And I will say like, it's, I, I guess it's easy to say this when you've seen a guy Rob two home runs in the young season, but he looks calm, cool and collected out there. He looks

[00:18:50] Nate: Yeah.

[00:18:50] ben: what he's doing. He looks comfortable out there. Um, not sure I could have said that about him last year. But, um, yeah, it's, it's hard not to, like, I, yeah, I agree. Nathan [00:19:00] Church probably not gonna be like a 25, 25 guy that's taking over center, we're seeing real improvement. And if he's a, uh, you know, a 10 to 15 home or guy that carries a good average and great defense and base running like that is a guy that will be on your team for a while that we will, we will always

[00:19:17] Nate: It's what we were hoping for Victor Scott. You know, uh, like, and, and Scott had a home run last night, so, you know, maybe, I know there's a lot.

[00:19:29] ben: the

[00:19:29] Nate: Yeah, well there's a lot of talk at the broadcast and from Bran Brown and stuff about they're doing some tinkering. They're getting in there. Uh, as I understand it, Victor Scott May be an approach guy.

He really wants the information. He really wants to, uh, sort of maybe the inverse of what we're seeing, what we've learned about Jordan Walker, who, uh, maybe don't tinker, just let the guy rip and, and he'll, he'll make adjustments as needed. Um, but Victor Scott really wants. [00:20:00] Info, wants data, wants time and all that.

Uh, and they're giving that to him. And, you know, we'll see certainly a, a bomb is a significant improvement over what we've seen to start this season. Um, but too early to tell with any sort of change for him. Uh. But yeah, Nathan Church with his defense, we've said it a ton on this show because the Cardinals have some defensive premium guys.

You don't need that much to be super valuable on the team. If you're defensive, if you're valuable defensively at a premium position like Nathan Church could be. Um, so 10 to 15 home runs okay. Played approach. Some stolen bases. When you do get on elite center field defense, that's a great piece to have for a rebuilding team, and he's as as much control as you could possibly have from a guy.

You know, he's, he is in his rookie contract.

[00:20:50] ben: Yeah, he has, um, 0.043 years of service time accrued so far. So he is, he is a cardinal,

[00:20:59] Nate: [00:21:00] As long as we.

[00:21:00] ben: until 32. Nate.

[00:21:02] Nate: Wow. Uh, and, you know, all are welcome at Nathan Church. Um, so praise be,

[00:21:08] ben: This bit is good and I cannot wait to do it for the next six years.

[00:21:14] Nate: uh, same.

[00:21:15] ben: Right. Um, okay. We can talk about another player who's, who's doing.

[00:21:22] Nate: Ditto.

[00:21:23] ben: Okay. That felt worth it. Um, another player who's playing quite well right now, uh, we kind of talked about it, I think it was two weeks ago. We were, we were calling for the Yvonne Herrera, uh, to kind of come out from under the, the weird offensive production rock.

He was stuck under for a little bit, and I think that that is happening. Right in front of our eyes, Nate. He has had a, a really productive week. He's starting to hit Homer. He's also walking like, I did not see this part of his game. I don't know if it's people are afraid of him. I don't know if his eyes gotten better.

He's also been good at the, uh, [00:22:00] umpire challenges behind the plate. Like, I don't know, did he get

[00:22:04] Nate: You got, you got a new prescription? Yeah.

[00:22:06] ben: Yeah. Uh, but he is walking, um, uh, over 17%. Um, as far as just walks. I think he's tied for a fourth in MLB with the most amount of walks right now with guys like James Wood and, and, and hitters that you kind of think of as being a little more scary. Um, he's also, uh, started lifting the ball over the past week. Again, of course, the small sample size one week of baseball, but his average launch angle 17 and a half degrees. Um. he is, he is lifting the ball. That's, I think he was sitting around. It was either negative or, or like one or two, uh, a couple of weeks ago.

So he is completely, uh, uh, turned that around as far as hitting the ball in the air. He's still hitting the ball very hard. He swings the bat as hard as almost anybody on the team other than Jordan Walker. He's getting the walks. Um, I mean, he is looking like a fully fledged [00:23:00] offensive. Beast right now. Um, obviously the kind of bad weird start is limiting his season number.

He is got a WRC plus of 1 38 right now, but I, I, I feel like he is kind of on a, a, a sharp upward arrow right now. Um, and, and looking like one of the better hitters in MLB.

[00:23:19] Nate: Which is great and it's so easy to forget 'cause I feel like we overlook Herrera, especially with the slow start, but like coming into the year, and if you remember period. Of last year, he was the best hitter on the team and it wasn't particularly close. Uh, and especially with the removal of like Wilson Contreras, um, you know, coming into the season, the expectations were he's likely the best overall.

Offensive player on the team, uh, the most likely to hit for power and carry, uh, some degree of a reasonable batting average. Obviously you could have said Alec Burleson, [00:24:00] but his overall over the wall, uh, power potential is still in question. Whereas Herrera has always felt like a guy who could have a 30 plus season if everything came together.

So slow start, but it's good to see him returning to that really exciting, uh, potential that we all know he has had.

[00:24:21] ben: And part of this weird start is he has a two 50 batting average on balls in play right now, which you, you feel like that's going to normalize to at least around 300 or so. Um, and that obviously just makes the whole profile look even better. Um, but yeah, it's, you know, he's, he's almost doubled his walk rate. Um, he is less at his strikeout rate. Every, everything is looking really

[00:24:46] Nate: Yeah,

[00:24:47] ben: the defense at Catcher isn't amazing. Um, the arm, you know, the arm, I'll admit it. The arm's not good. Okay.

[00:24:54] Nate: sure.

[00:24:55] ben: not fun to watch, but he can catch and it's

[00:24:58] Nate: Well,

[00:24:59] ben: [00:25:00] nightmare. It might be

[00:25:01] Nate: yeah,

[00:25:01] ben: hitter on the team. I mean, it's, this is a, uh, a future all star, maybe not an All star this year. He is, he's a very, very good player.

[00:25:10] Nate: yeah, I agree. And. You know, when we project this offense into the future and we think about what a competitive version of this team looks like, you certainly put Herrera in there in bold as like a, ideally he is a centerpiece of that. You know, we're, we're seeing who, who are we locking in for the long term?

Um, or we think we'll be at the center of a successful Cardinals lineup. And it, it, uh. The path right now includes him, you know?

[00:25:43] ben: We haven't really talked about this much, and I don't know if it's been talked about more broadly, but like where's the her Ivo Yvonne Herrera chat

[00:25:52] Nate: yeah.

[00:25:52] ben: Like, why, why aren't we talking about that? Like, I think we've seen over 600 app [00:26:00] bats. I think I feel pretty confident in saying he's a solid major league hitter.

[00:26:04] Nate: Yeah, I think

[00:26:05] ben: by.

[00:26:05] Nate: totally. I think the concern. That you would, the answer you would, that I think makes the most sense is simply the positional liability side of things. Like if he truly can, o can't play anything else, which is how it was. There was that question coming into the season. Right. I, I agree with your.

Uh, uh, feelings that, like, he's, he's a, he's a good enough catcher to keep him back there, and it's incredibly valuable to have him catch and hit. So I'm on board for that. But even just a month ago, it was the question of will he ever catch, especially with those knee issues. And so then if he can't catch and we're not comfortable with him in any other defensive position, it's like, are you really looking to lock up a d.

A DH at his age, you know, whereas maybe, and I hate to say it, but maybe like as far as a long-term value thing goes, he's more valuable as a [00:27:00] trade piece to get something that fits your team needs a little bit better. And he goes to a team that could win a World Series like right now with him at dh, and they'll deal with the ramification, like the long-term plan for him separately.

[00:27:13] ben: I hear you, but I don't like it.

[00:27:15] Nate: I, well, I don't, I'm just playing, uh, devil's advocate. I'm a real Pacino, if you will.

[00:27:20] ben: I, I could see there's an argument for that being the shrewd move. Um, but I think, like if I wa, if I had to make a decision today and I was king of baseball operations for the St. Louis Cardinals, I think I would say out with the Burley and we're gonna start getting, uh, yon some, some looks at first base dh, he can still catch. Um, obviously I would also, uh, send. Uh, Pozo to the wolves and call up. Um, anybody else? Those are just a couple of things that I would do. Um, but yeah, I, I would

[00:27:53] Nate: I mean.

[00:27:54] ben: on Yvonne than Burley is. And, and not that anybody's asking, being forced to make [00:28:00] that decision right now, but I, I would feel pretty confident in that.

[00:28:03] Nate: Listen, if you're king of baseball operations, I assume when you send Pozo to the wolves, we're thinking some sort of gladiator coliseum type thing where it's actually happening out on the field. At Bush Stadium and Pozo, maybe he's given some token element of self-defense, uh, a bat. Ooh, that there you go.

A bat, um, and maybe a ball. And you let out how many, how many wolves are you were in your, as you picture this, how many wolves are you releasing at?

[00:28:35] ben: place over two weeks, so I think the first one will be one or two wolves and then we'll kind of increase it. And then obviously if

[00:28:41] Nate: Oh, okay.

[00:28:41] ben: goes on to win the championship, we will give him a harem and his freedom.

[00:28:46] Nate: I honestly, as Pozo projects out his variety of future career paths, um, a harem and freedom, um, you know, probably pretty high on the list.

[00:28:59] ben: [00:29:00] Hey, who's complaining?

[00:29:01] Nate: You just gotta beat a bunch of wolves to death with a baseball bat.

[00:29:06] ben: Yeah. Yeah,

[00:29:07] Nate: Yeah. Okay.

[00:29:09] ben: all the chili dogs you can eat.

[00:29:12] Nate: Ooh, now that's, it'll be sucking on some chili dogs all day.

[00:29:16] ben: Wow.

[00:29:18] Nate: Wow. Um, yeah. Uh, yeah. Let's go onto the next one,

[00:29:24] ben: JJ Nathan

[00:29:26] Nate: jj.

[00:29:27] ben: J's banging. Oh,

[00:29:29] Nate: Dude.

[00:29:29] ben: I, I had a, I had a, a JJ nickname. I'm, I wanted to try it out in the pod.

[00:29:34] Nate: Okay.

[00:29:35] ben: I don't believe I've shared this with you, so you just gimme your real reaction to this.

[00:29:38] Nate: A rapid react. Here we go.

[00:29:40] ben: react double JW Is that good?

[00:29:46] Nate: Double jw.

[00:29:48] ben: This is JJ Weather Holt. JJW.

[00:29:54] Nate: I, yeah. Hmm. The fact that I have to unpack it for so long is,

[00:29:59] ben: [00:30:00] it.

[00:30:00] Nate: is, uh, is not a, is not a, it's longer to say than his name. Double J, double U.

[00:30:07] ben: Yeah, I'm aware. I'm aware.

[00:30:09] Nate: It also, you're, it's kind of a, it's kind of a, a, a word game almost because it's double J, which is two Js.

[00:30:18] ben: right.

[00:30:19] Nate: Then you're saying double U, which if you're following the naming convention of the first one, you're thinking it's two u's.

[00:30:26] ben: Yeah.

[00:30:26] Nate: So it's also confusing.

[00:30:29] ben: I think

[00:30:30] Nate: I love it. Handout, I think.

[00:30:31] ben: And, and I think I, I, I pre is I asked, is it good? Is, is it good?

[00:30:37] Nate: No, double J. Double U as a nickname for JJ Weather. Holt, I think. I think it will struggle to stick. Okay. But you know what? I like you in the game, you know,

[00:30:50] ben: Okay.

[00:30:50] Nate: no bad ideas in a blue sky. You know what I mean?

[00:30:53] ben: I, I, I, I was hit with a lightning bolt of, uh, a a a weather holt of, um, and I [00:31:00] was, I

[00:31:00] Nate: A weather bolt of inspiration.

[00:31:01] ben: Yeah.

[00:31:02] Nate: so would it be written out as the word double J and then the word double, like how you, how are you writing?

[00:31:12] ben: for the internet to decide, and I think that if you have an opinion about this, uh, reach out at us at 8 4 8 48 birds. That's 8 4 8 4 8 2 4 7 3 7 is double JW. Good.

[00:31:25] Nate: Yeah. Yeah. I would love other opinions on this. I think it would be great to hear if anyone else thinks that, uh, you know, just, I don't wanna tip the scales, you know? Tell us, honestly, do you think this is a good nickname?

[00:31:37] ben: I'm not changing the subject, but he had three homers, Nathan, since

[00:31:42] Nate: Yeah.

[00:31:43] ben: chatted. He, I, I, I, I could talk about his defense. I think every single episode, it seems like he's almost always doing a highlight play, making some. Extra special play. I'm starting to get on the train where like, are we watching the best, uh, second baseman in baseball?

Like really [00:32:00] quickly. He is looking so good out there. So steady, so much range. The arm is more than enough for a second baseman. Um, he's got hops. It's just, it's great, but I wanna focus on the power. He had a couple of really important timely home runs this year. Or, or sorry, this week he hit a nice backside home run, which I thought was pretty exciting.

'cause you ne, we know we talked about this, like obviously the kid can hit where is the power? Um, and I think that we're seeing when he's getting off that a swing, it's legit power.

[00:32:32] Nate: There's no question.

[00:32:33] ben: no question. I, yeah, I fully agree with that.

[00:32:35] Nate: I, I'm, I've been convinced in the one month that we've had Major League baseball, that he has the power potential, uh, at the major league level beyond our initial belief. Like the, the, the fact that he's hitting it this hard, this early and this consistently. Makes me think that this guy has, um, 25 plus, [00:33:00] you know, peak seasons in him, which I don't think I would've said even a month ago.

[00:33:06] ben: Yeah, I, I think he's going to rack up probably more home runs than we expected. I also feel like there's going to be a. Just a a, a run of like him being a doubles machine happening

[00:33:18] Nate: Yeah.

[00:33:18] ben: very soon, if not like immediately. But, um, yeah, the, the pa I, I mean, it's, it's, it's a lot of fun to have a rookie of the year candidate on your team who is doing the thing to win the rookie of the year right now.

I mean, arguably the best, uh, at least offensive. Um, pro, uh, a rookie in National League right now. I think really only from a play a, a pro, uh, position player point of view. Kevin McGonigal's really the only other rookie that's having a, uh, maybe a better season than him. Obviously he's in the al. Um, but, uh, JJ Iss doing all the things right now.

[00:33:56] Nate: Yeah. Uh, Nolan McLean for the, the Mets is looking pretty [00:34:00] damn good as a starter and I think is competition for him. Um,

[00:34:05] ben: might have the

[00:34:05] Nate: but

[00:34:06] ben: ball in baseball right now. It

[00:34:07] Nate: yeah.

[00:34:08] ben: stunning.

[00:34:09] Nate: He's good. Fortunately the Mets, um, but, uh, I think JJ is clearly running away with it as far as the early season champ. Uh, challenge goes. Connor, Griffin is starting to warm up though.

He's had a couple bombs in the last week.

[00:34:25] ben: At

[00:34:25] Nate: He's,

[00:34:26] ben: last night, that,

[00:34:27] Nate: yeah.

[00:34:28] ben: field, kinda low line drive, that was impressive.

[00:34:31] Nate: Yeah, so you can see it. You can see it. But J's obviously gotten a, a pretty big headstart as far as that goes.

[00:34:38] ben: Yeah,

[00:34:39] Nate: but

[00:34:40] ben: years older than Connor Griffin, so you know, that's,

[00:34:42] Nate: yeah.

[00:34:43] ben: data point as well.

[00:34:44] Nate: Yeah, yeah. Um, but yeah, I mean, I don't, like, there's nothing else you could ask for from this guy, from this first month of Major League baseball. Um, and he's even. Like ahead of what, [00:35:00] what of most of our expectations were, uh, in everything as far as power output, defense, all of it is.

Asked what we expected at this point, um, I'm anticipating at some point there'll be a, a major slump and, you know, with this batted ball profile, there could be, like you said, a doubles machine. And he ends up not having any home runs for three weeks and it really. Balances that curve as far as like total season number expectations.

Uh, but at the end of the day, I was not anticipating him hitting, uh, really any like he has already. Uh, and that gives I think, real confidence that this dude's going to contribute at basically every aspect of the game, uh, uh, alre, you know, for the rest of the season.

[00:35:42] ben: Yeah. Uh, let's talk about the pitching a little bit

[00:35:47] Nate: Woo.

[00:35:48] ben: 'cause there's some okay. Things to talk about

[00:35:51] Nate: Sure.

[00:35:51] ben: and one of those Okay. Things is Ryan or Fernandez.

[00:35:55] Nate: Yeah, looking slick by the way. We love the [00:36:00] mustache.

[00:36:00] ben: I.

[00:36:01] Nate: Um,

[00:36:02] ben: Yeah,

[00:36:02] Nate: and

[00:36:03] ben: are in right now. I feel like his is the mustache you should aim for though. There's a lot of

[00:36:09] Nate: me personally,

[00:36:10] ben: stash. Um, they're royal. uh,

[00:36:14] Nate: okay,

[00:36:14] ben: we, us them.

[00:36:15] Nate: sure.

[00:36:17] ben: but yeah, it'd be great if you could

[00:36:18] Nate: I don't think. I don't get the thickness that those guys get, you know,

[00:36:25] ben: Yeah. You gotta regain your face.

[00:36:28] Nate: just smear it on my face.

[00:36:31] ben: you gotta regain your face. Or, uh, n Nutriful,

[00:36:34] Nate: I'm going to tur, I'm, I'm going to Turkey and I'm gonna get the hair plug thing for my face.

[00:36:40] ben: Take all of the hair on my head and plug it into my face. I'm sure they would

[00:36:46] Nate: Yeah. I actually think, I could be wrong on this, but I think if you grab just right and you pull your beard or mustache hair, it actually, it shortens it from the top of your head and pulls it [00:37:00] out through your beard and, and mustache. You can actually lengthen. It's all one strand. I think I could be wrong on that though, but like I, I think that's how it works.

[00:37:09] ben: Yeah.

[00:37:10] Nate: Yeah.

[00:37:12] ben: Maybe for you like there's just an empty cavity

[00:37:16] Nate: Which is a spool.

[00:37:17] ben: Um, well that's, that's fascinating. But, uh, uh, Ryan Fernandez looks like he might be a

[00:37:25] Nate: I could be wrong. I I could be wrong. I, I might be wrong on that one. I'll,

[00:37:29] ben: you would work on with the kids or something that does,

[00:37:31] Nate: I'll admit,

[00:37:32] ben: this, the shtick is

[00:37:33] Nate: I'll admit,

[00:37:34] ben: time.

[00:37:35] Nate: I'll admit, oh no. This is prime time.

[00:37:38] ben: Yeah. The

[00:37:40] Nate: That implies I prepare things otherwise. Yeah, that's true.

[00:37:44] ben: Jesus, Nathan, what am I trying to say? He's good. His slider has looked really good. The changeup has looked really good. He's not walking guys. Um, he hasn't given up a home run yet, which is, you know, compared to what we were watching last year is a very, very good sign. [00:38:00] Um. the underlying numbers are looking good. He's looking a lot closer to that 2024 guy than, uh, than he did last year actually looking possibly even better than he did in 2024. So we'll see how it works out. But, you know, this is obviously the variability with, um, bullpen arms. You never know. But this is the type of season where you could really take advantage of Ryan Fernandez being good for 30 or 40 innings and flip him to another organization where he goes to do high leverage, relief innings for a playoff team, and the Cardinals get to acquire more players.

So I, I, this would be a huge win. From a player dev standpoint and a potential huge win from a player acquisition standpoint. So rooting for Ryan Fernandez and the mustache and the slider and that, like I said, that change up a relatively newer pitch for him is looking pretty good so far. I.

[00:38:52] Nate: We heard from Kyle Reese when he was on the show, uh, that the organization has put a newfound, um, you. [00:39:00] Importance and, uh, focus on the changeup. You're kind of seeing it around baseball too. Um, just the, the changeup is the hot pitch again. Uh, and so he's out here. He has sown significant, uh, capabilities at the MLB level.

Before and the life of a reliever is, uh, one small sample size after another. So, uh, we'll see. But the question has always been for him, consistency. Um, 'cause we've seen these flashes before, so it's good to see that it's happening. Uh, it's good to see that there's some potential new element to it that gives you more confidence in the longevity of the success.

Um, and with some of the other guys in the bullpen right now, uh, we would certainly love to see, um. Brian Fernandez, step up and, and become one of the later leverage guys, uh, and relieve our good friend Ryan Stanek, uh, of his high leverage situations and move into, I mean, Soriano's looked pretty good. [00:40:00] So a,

[00:40:00] ben: pleased with Soriano.

[00:40:01] Nate: yeah, Soriano Fernandez, jojo and O'Brien up till July, uh, when two to four of them are traded.

[00:40:13] ben: Yeah. Yeah. We had some conversations in the bird court about this, but I, I think that it's the smart move. With any of these guys, O'Brien, Romero, Stanek, uh, even Soriano and Swanson and Fernandez, like if they are pitching really well and a team makes you an offer, you probably just pull the trigger on it,

[00:40:34] Nate: Yeah, well, obviously, especially for Romero or Stanek who are free agents after this year, um, that one's easy. Um, I, I generally agree. Um, but I think it, it does depend to some degree on the individual you're talking about their con, their length of control. Our assessment of the Cardinals window at at the midpoint of 2026, we should have a, I would [00:41:00] like to think we should have a general understanding of will 2027 be a potential compete year for the Cardinals or not by, by the end of July, 2026.

Um, and if they are in a compete window. Or believe 2027 to be a compete year. Um, then I think there is a counter argument to keeping some of these guys, so you're not going into 2027 with a whole new bullpen. Um, we, we certainly have enjoyed how the cardinals have built bullpens. Um, we've seen them do it successfully several years in a row.

Um, but when you're actually going into a Win Now mode, you at least want some degree of understanding who your good relievers are at the start of the season. And if you trade all those guys, um, you can find yourself in a really shitty spot of, we have actually a pretty good offense. We have a pretty good starting rotation, but our bullpen is absolutely shit.

And you lose a bunch of games in April, may, and whatnot as you figure all that out and you're in a, in a hole.

[00:41:59] ben: I don't [00:42:00] necessarily disagree with you, but I do think that you are. You should take advantage of the iron while it's hot, and I think that. club I should have, we should have some confidence in blooming Goons to go and

[00:42:12] Nate: Yeah.

[00:42:13] ben: that they have confidence in and or make adjustments to players like Gordon Cefo to get the most out of them and, and make them, um, high leverage relievers.

Um,

[00:42:22] Nate: Yeah. Well, and

[00:42:24] ben: opportunities like this very often. Hopefully

[00:42:26] Nate: yeah.

[00:42:27] ben: opportunities like this very often where you do want to sell a bunch of guys. So I get what you're saying, but, um, know, somebody makes you an offer for half of those guys and. It makes the team better for the future.

I, I think you gotta be aggressive.

[00:42:41] Nate: Well, and that's what I was gonna kind of end on is that essentially to me, it'll come down to kind of the offer, right? Like if, if. Someone, if, if a team comes in and makes a, a really competitive offer for five years of Riley O'Brien, um, you know, you, you might make that move because it's, it's such [00:43:00] an over overpay or whatever it might be.

You know, we've seen some relievers net, some really big returns. I'd be here for it if that return matches.

Before we go to the next topic, that would occurred to me, um, since you were so to tell your little chicken nugget story here at the top of the episode, um, that I've completely forgot to bring up, that you, you will, uh, you will be here with me. Tomorrow, the day people are listening to this, you'll probably already be in St.

Louis for our annual tradition of donating $50 via failing at a fishing tournament, um, to a bunch of retired, uh, people with their own boats.

[00:43:48] ben: I thought it was a hundred bucks. So honestly, I feel pretty good about that all of a sudden.

[00:43:52] Nate: You just made 50 bucks.

[00:43:53] ben: I really.

[00:43:54] Nate: we, we, we pay the, uh, boat rental too, which will be its own, but the, the tournament [00:44:00] itself, which is hosted every year at Lake of the Ozarks by my father, uh, if you've listened to the show for years now, we talk about it every time around this year.

Uh, 'cause it's, for me, it's the one time a year I go fishing ham boat. And I know you will sometimes go, um, on fishing trips. Though also quite rarely, uh, and we go and compete against people who spend most of their free time fishing. And, uh, it goes about as you would expect,

[00:44:28] ben: Yeah, I think it was last year we tried as a group, I'm not gonna blame anyone, one individual for this. We tried submitting an ineligible fish, uh, species, and they, I mean, they looked at us like we were less than nothing. It, it was as if we were the scum on their shoe.

[00:44:45] Nate: cannot remember the last time I've been laughed at by a group of people like Mockingly.

[00:44:55] ben: Yeah.

[00:44:55] Nate: I

[00:44:56] ben: Yeah.

[00:44:56] Nate: just sheer, um, [00:45:00] disrespect and, um, look down

[00:45:04] ben: yep. Yep.

[00:45:05] Nate: Uh, yeah. It was, uh, it was great. We had a great time. We have a good time down

[00:45:10] ben: Yeah. You know, it's good for, you know, it builds personality, puts hair on your chest, you know, that kind of thing. Yeah.

[00:45:16] Nate: share Um so we'll be doing that this week and we'll report back uh next week on the show how it went You can probably already predict how it's gonna go but I don't know Ham bone be the year

[00:45:27] ben: I mean, there's some amount of fishing is luck, and if you go enough times, we're gonna have a heater. We, we've never had a heater.

[00:45:35] Nate: Now Chris did Okay last

[00:45:36] ben: Yeah.

[00:45:37] Nate: Friend of the show associate sound producer Chris uh he has he he limited out on one of the days You and I did not Um we yet you'd think it We've done this for like seven years you'd think at some point we would just happen to catch the big fish You

[00:45:51] ben: Right.

[00:45:51] Nate: the tournament has both quantity and quality in it and we're never going to win quantity But you'd think we'd just get lucky and one of the [00:46:00] three of us would catch one of the top three biggest fish of per day of

[00:46:06] ben: Yeah.

[00:46:07] Nate: And uh

[00:46:08] ben: Not yet.

[00:46:09] Nate: not

[00:46:10] ben: Turns out if you catch a large quantity, you have a higher opportunity to catch a larger fish. Kind of, you know, the whole thing is kind of not in our favor.

[00:46:18] Nate: that doesn't make any sense to me but

[00:46:21] ben: Yeah.

[00:46:21] Nate: I'm not I'm not good at it So again we'll be back next week to report on it Um I know some of our listeners like to uh laugh at us about this one so I thought we had to to make sure everyone was aware that it was happening this weekend

[00:46:34] ben: Thank you for that.

[00:46:36] Nate: All right Let's talk about Jordan Walker Um How you feeling We're we're you know we've had we had the heater we had the strikeout session that we all saw coming What are we seeing right now

[00:46:52] ben: Yeah, I, I, you know, obviously Walker is, has cooled down from his league leading [00:47:00] slugging and homers and everything that was happening for that two week stint, which we all knew was happening. And that's all, you know. That's fine. It's, it's nothing that I am concerned with. Uh, I think what we are concerned with or, or like, you know, as you are.

Where does he go when things go the wrong way? How bad does it get? Do we bounce back? Is the process still good? Are the swings still looking good? All of that kind of thing. And as I was kind of like diving into the data, I found something that I thought was pretty interesting and worth talking about on this episode.

And the good news is all in all, you know, he's keeping his process. Um, um, where it needs to be. He's still swinging hard. He's actually even increased his launch angle since last time we've dove into it. Um, you know, uh, the hard hit is still crazy. Every, everything's still looking good, and even though it's not as good as it was, but what I wanted to talk about is, uh, the way that Jordan Walker attacks particular pitches.

Um, and, uh, this probably isn't [00:48:00] surprising to anybody who's watched Cardinals baseball, uh, since 2023, but Jordan Walker has been attacked by sliders more than any other pitch in his career. He's seen. 200, almost 200 more sliders than any other pitch. Um, which I was a little surprised by. Just 'cause you think, you know, the young kid, you beat him with velocity until he can't, uh, respond to it, and then you, you start adjusting.

But basically since day one, they've been killing him with sliders. Um. And for good reason. In 2024, he carried a 75 WRC plus against the pitch, meaning he's 25% worse than league average against that pitch. So obviously not great. Um, in 25, he had a 53 WRC plus against that pitch, which again, it was the number one pitch he has seen in every year of his career, including this year.

But what is cool [00:49:00] Nate, is that he's seen 212 sliders. Uh, or, or, sorry, sorry. He's seen 125 sliders and he is currently carrying a 212 WRC plus against that pitch.

[00:49:15] Nate: Is that good

[00:49:16] ben: That's pretty. That's about twice as good as an average player against the pitch, and, and a little more than that actually. And obviously a turnaround that is kind of incomprehensible going from a.

53. So basically worse than the bottom half, or as as bad as the bottom half to twice as good. Plus over the average is, is quite the turnaround. Again, it's only 125 pitches. It's still early. You know, the, the, obviously we're gonna say that over and over again. Um. But he has completely turned around his ability to crush those pitches.

And actually, if you look at, on any pitch that he has been thrown over, uh, I think I put my number at, [00:50:00] uh, 30 times, he has an over 100 WRC plus. So he is, uh, if he's seen the pitch more than 30 times, he's doing at least league average against it, which is exciting. What is, uh, another interesting data point that I found while diving into these numbers?

Is that all of a sudden his K percentage on changeups has shot up. So he is still, he still has an over 100 WRC plus against changeups, but he has gone from a career strikeout rate on, or sorry, a whiff rate on changeups of being about 35%, meaning that he's swinging and missing at 35% of the changeups, uh, at that are thrown at his face.

And now in 2026. He's, uh, at a, uh, 59% whiff rate, which is. A lot. So it's interesting, it's, he is, I don't wanna say solved the slider, but he is so far mashing against sliders and there's a [00:51:00] new pitch that is kind of giving him fits and that's a change up and it's worse than ever. Um, now I think that, you know, there's a lot of ways to take this kind of data, but I think.

What's cool is you're seeing actual progression, um, even though it's maybe coming at the cost of something else, but that I, I think that this means that he can get better at hitting a pitch or recognizing a pitch, and we should expect him, uh, I, I don't expect that Jordan Walker is going to carry a 60%.

Whiff rate on any pitch for the season. So I expect this to kind of normalize and balance out and, and get better as he, um, you know, gets better at recognizing swinging and, and, and attacking or just laying off the pitch. You know, you don't, you don't need to, if, if you're not seeing the change up, trying to learn to just not swing out it in general might be the best option rather than.

Being more selective. But anyways, I thought that was pretty interesting and, and showed, uh, some, you know, we, we always talk about how progression for these guys is not linear. I think this is a perfect example of [00:52:00] that.

[00:52:00] Nate: Yeah Yeah Good data Um I think From the eye test standpoint one of the noticeable changes this year we've talked about it on this show we talk about it in the bird scored et cetera is his ability to lay off the low and outside slider in a way that I never saw him able to do before And I imagine that's where that incredibly low W WRC plus against sliders has come from is that he was constantly chasing them swinging and missing and striking out Now he seems to have evolved his plate approach to the point where he really just watches him go by You'll see he does that thing where he like bends down with it as it goes into the zone you know he's like really tracking it and he is been pretty good at taking some that are just outta the zone for a ball where I think Not only would he have struck out on them definitely in years past I think many would And so we you could just you could watch it and see the improvement on [00:53:00] sliders Uh and I'll also say I've absolutely seen him swing and miss on some in the zone changeups that I felt like I'm really surprised that he missed Um so we'll see This is the part of the Uh cat and mouse thing of pitching right I suspect that you're not the only one uh in the in the field who has identified this change and probably teams across the league right now who are already converting to some degree to pro uh prioritize the changeup a as we Mentioned before um but will I certainly recognize that Jordan Walker is swinging and missing at changeups at a extreme rate and that and the slider is not as effective as it used to be

[00:53:43] ben: Yeah.

[00:53:43] Nate: that will be he'll need to make that change cause we've certainly seen him swing through it because The data shows that he's swinging through it Uh so he's gonna have to make the change cause uh most guys can throw a change up

[00:53:55] ben: Most guys can throw. Yeah.

[00:53:57] Nate: Yeah if that's a bad pitch for you you're gonna have to [00:54:00] make a change or you'll be exploited

[00:54:01] ben: Yeah.

[00:54:02] Nate: at bat

[00:54:03] ben: And he'll, he'll have to change up Nate. Huh? Huh. Um, for people curious, he, his, uh, zone contact percentage on changeups, meaning the amount of changeups that he makes contact with that are inside the strike zone is 61%. And that's, that sounds high, but it's actually not, it, it's typically those numbers are around 80.

Um, so,

[00:54:27] Nate: zone that

[00:54:28] ben: the.

[00:54:28] Nate: should be making contact It doesn't say good

[00:54:30] ben: No, no. Just contact at all. Yeah. So that is, that is low. And that's, that's a clear weak point right now. And, and hopefully he can, uh, stamp that out. Um.

[00:54:42] Nate: he's had a couple good games There's certainly some signs maybe that uh the he's locking back in and if it turns out that his pattern is something like two or three weeks of and then two weeks of uh rough Like I think we'll certainly take that at the [00:55:00] end of the year I I I imagine we we talked about it last week Um you basically can't carry a 28 or higher strikeout rate and be consistent at the major league level It just becomes a matter of how long are each of your streaks um and do you stay consistent with your approach that created that 28 strikeout rate While it was good Um and and not start to make more changes and dig yourself deeper and deeper like we saw him do in in previous years

[00:55:29] ben: Right.

[00:55:29] Nate: Um and right now it looks like staying consistent and that would make us think the good results will start to come again Almost had a bomb last night Overall Had a very good game though

[00:55:41] ben: And I, as soon as he hit that, which, which by the way, the Cardinals did a really good job with productive outs last night, which made me feel good. And like I was watching Tony LaRusso or something, but he hit that ball hard. He put a good swing on it. It was over 95 miles per hour exit velocity. And he was like 20 something like.

That ball is a home [00:56:00] run in two months. That home ball ball's a home run a lot of times. But, uh, yeah, I thought that that was a great sign. You're seeing the hard hit balls the other way. Um, the rbis, I, I thought he had, uh, he's looking good and I think really obviously the eight home runs in two seconds is great and everything like that.

But the fact that he is, uh, all I want to see is him dig himself out and be productive. Like if he can just. Adjust quickly, quick enough, and, and, and stay afloat and bounce back from leaner times. That is all I need to see and I'm still gonna be on the hype train.

[00:56:34] Nate: Absolutely we'll we're fine with a 101 15 WRC plus for a couple weeks while you get it sorted and get up to back up to a one 70

[00:56:43] ben: Sure.

[00:56:44] Nate: he was two 30 or whatever He was uh uh rocking there for a little

[00:56:49] ben: Yeah. Yeah, we can, we can make that work for sure. Um, I did want to talk about, you know, we're talking about Wif rate with, uh, jaywalk. I did want to talk about another guy, um, [00:57:00] who is in AAA right now, who's got some interesting numbers. Uh, Bruce Zimmerman, do you remember when we acquired him? And we kind of, I think we may have even said this is the last time we'll talk about Bruce Zimmerman on the podcast.

[00:57:13] Nate: Yeah 31-year-old starter um you know you it it felt like a depth piece a break glass sort of thing where the major League roster is collapsed but we don't want to pull up uh uh a Matthews or or any of the other prospects cause not ready and we just need to fill kill some kill some time

[00:57:33] ben: Um, well, what's interesting, he, he is, like Nate said, he's 31 years old. He doesn't throw hard. His fastball sits like 91. But he's having a really good start to the season. Uh, and when you look at the numbers, he's made some serious changes to how he's rolling out his pitch arsenal, which is very exciting.

Um, he has swapped out, uh, he, or sorry, he was a, uh, fastball, changeup. Pitcher [00:58:00] for the past, you know, however, four or five years or something like that, uh, he has swapped to leaning on a slider splitter combo. He slow, he now throws the slider almost a quarter of the time. And so far, and I, I think it's about 29 innings in aaa.

So it's still, you know, not, not a ton. Obviously it has a 54% whiff rate, which is absolutely ridiculous.

[00:58:24] Nate: Yeah So what's going on here Is this uh a late career breakout Is this a 31-year-old guy just crushing kids at the minors Um you know where do you see this going

[00:58:37] ben: I, so a, another interesting thing is he is that splitter that he's throwing. So it's really splitter. A slider is his number one pitch. All of a sudden four fastball, which is still very average and, and not great. And then his third most often used pitch is his, uh, splitter. And that currently has a 44% wave rate.

And these balls are the, these pitches. Like the slider has good spin rate and everything like that, but it's [00:59:00] not shocking. Uh, the splitter, you know, splitter spin rates are weird. It's lesser. Um, I haven't been able to watch a ton of video on Bruce Zimmerman. I don't know exactly what we're seeing, but we're seeing a guy who was like Mr.

Average starting pitcher. Utilize two pitches that are getting over a 44% Wif rate. All of a sudden he's leaning on them. Um, and whether this means that he is going to get a spot start in St. Louis soon, if he is going to maybe transfer to a bullpen piece that's got a couple of good breaking balls with huge li huge you high Wif rates, I don't know.

But so far, like I said, he is really, he's kind of breaking out or at least making me want to, uh, understand what the hell is going on over here.

[00:59:44] Nate: Could could certainly see a near term spot in the bullpen for him Um and with this 17 game streak coming up or or they're in the midst of it right now Um arms will get taxed Wouldn't surprise me to see him up maybe Um and [01:00:00] frankly the rotation as it is like I I've said it before I know we have Dobbins coming up tomorrow which is exciting Um but I I think We are we are getting close to the the rotation uh um car Car what's the word I'm looking for roulette you

[01:00:19] ben: Oh yeah.

[01:00:20] Nate: like we're gonna start seeing a bunch of different guys getting chances and

[01:00:24] ben: Yeah.

[01:00:24] Nate: skipped and piggyback skipped and all these different things I think to really start to get some more answers

[01:00:29] ben: Yeah,

[01:00:30] Nate: maybe start to reduce some exposure

[01:00:33] ben: yeah. Um, I, I wanna call out, you know, it might be smoke and mirrors. It, it's a pretty small sample size, but he is rocking a 34% strikeout rate, a five point a half percent walk rate. Um, and you know, it, it's for a guy who, like I said, is kind of a boring 31-year-old lefty, that doesn't throw very hard.

Those are some pretty interesting numbers, and I, I guess we'll see. You know what that leads to, uh, if you're curious, he's got [01:01:00] a 3 9 6 ERA and a 2.98 expected FIP for AAA right now. And again, that's over five starts. So, um, it's not nothing. Um, and it, it might be nothing. I, I, I don't know, but it is, it's interesting and, uh, yeah, just, uh, wanted to call out Bruce Zimmerman for, uh, doing something kind of, kind of fun.

[01:01:23] Nate: Yeah we'll see Um alright well we're going to talk about the upcoming series Uh we're going to cover a little bit of leak news and then we're gonna play a little game But before we get to that want to remind our listeners that this show is listener supported patreon.com Listeners just like

[01:01:42] ben: Wow.

[01:01:43] Nate: you are out there you can show your your support for this show directly by subscribing to our patreon patreon.com/talking about birds Any subscriber at any of the paid levels gets access to uh a number of things early episodes Uh [01:02:00] and uh also the bird scored That is our private chat server You've heard us talk about it a bunch already and it's a really great place to hang out with other cardinal Fans listeners of the show and some other people from the uh Cardinal Podcast and blogging community as well Just a cool place to get away from social media and actually talk to other baseball fans Um you could also leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform which really does help Uh you could make this if you're a new listener you could make sure you tap that little subscribe button or follow or whatever you've got in front of you uh which is a great way to stay up with the show And of course Tell your friends tell your family hand bone Where else can people find us online

[01:02:44] ben: Yeah, we got all the socials. Of course you can check us out on Blue Sky, Instagram and the TikTok. We got a TikTok. Come TikTok with us. Uh, you can watch this show if you would prefer that on YouTube. We're over there, watch us. [01:03:00] Nate's showing off his guns, showing off his dance moves, um, shooting guns in the air.

It's pretty good. Sometimes you'll see my cat in the background. That's, that's pretty good too. Um, but yeah, check us out on YouTube. You can find all of the podcast information, t-shirts and more@talkingaboutbirds.com. Of course, you can email us at talk about birds@ggmail.com and as always, you can call us and leave a voicemail or send us a text message to 8 4 8.

48 birds. That's eight four. 8 4 8 2 4 7 3 7.

[01:03:40] Nate: 8 4 8 48 birds All right Ham bone The cardinals face an actual really good team here Now

[01:03:48] ben: oh.

[01:03:48] Nate: they will I know uh I mean we've played some good teams don't get me wrong but you there's caveats across most of em We did get swept by the Mariners so you know we've played some [01:04:00] while their record is not great yet They are a good team and and expect to be good Um but We are finally facing the juggernaut of the Los Angeles Dodgers I don't think we need to spend a ton of time on who the Dodgers are and what you can expect from them We have uh everyone has had their ass kicked by the Dodgers for years now Um so I think we jump straight to the pitching matchups and we'll we'll we'll talk from there

[01:04:26] ben: Yeah. Uh, so it looks like on Friday night, the Cardinal, uh, cardinals really draw an easy, uh, uh, a round from the, uh, Dodgers starting pitching at least. So, so they take that, you know. Um, but on Friday night, um, again, this is at St. Louis, uh, the Cardinals get Imit sheen against Matthew Lior. Um, feeling okay about that on the, uh, Saturday.

Game. We have Roki, Sasaki against Michael McGreevy and I, I mean, we, we easily have the, the, uh, the, the, the advantage in that matchup, which is kind of [01:05:00] shocking.

[01:05:00] Nate: Yeah Uh it feels like we do until uh at some point it feels like that's going to be a laughable statement Just I think Sasaki I I he's been bad He's been bad for a while It's not translating He's struggling but I still believe that in there is one of the best pitchers in baseball

[01:05:17] ben: Sure, but

[01:05:18] Nate: it

[01:05:18] ben: Nate, the fastball is stinky.

[01:05:21] Nate: Yeah

[01:05:21] ben: good.

[01:05:22] Nate: stinky

[01:05:22] ben: And it is extremely hard to be a major league starting pitcher without a good fastball. Um, and his is bad. It, it's, it's, he throws it hard. Um, but it has a no ride to it and players doint it. So I, I'm,

[01:05:35] Nate: Yeah

[01:05:36] ben: you know, um, he might get like six strikeouts in four innings.

Um, but, uh. He just has not been good. Um, and then Sunday the Cardinals draw Justin Robles against former Dodger, Dustin May, which, uh, should be a little bit of fun.

[01:05:55] Nate: Yeah Um so Lesky had a pretty good start [01:06:00] Um but up and down I I I see your point like of these guys are like Ian was was kind of a hot name coming in after last year coming back from injury and looking really good He has struggled off the out of the gates Sasaki has struggled Rob Leski has had some good starts But as far as facing Dodger pitching certainly this is

[01:06:21] ben: yeah.

[01:06:21] Nate: as good as it can

[01:06:22] ben: We're missing Yamamoto, Tani and Glass now, which are three of the top 10 pitchers in baseball. So

[01:06:29] Nate: yeah

[01:06:29] ben: take it, you know, show, Hey, Tani, it can't be talked about enough of how good he has looked on the pitching side so far this season. Obviously he's still the hitter, um, but he's going for that Cy Young.

[01:06:39] Nate: I know and he might be a favorite for it right

[01:06:44] ben: Yeah.

[01:06:45] Nate: both like his schemes had you know a bad starter two and and they're all so good It's gonna be who has like the least amount of blowups and you know so uh yeah So good luck Cardinals It's at home It's not the best pitching Cardinal [01:07:00] pitching like that's about as good as we can give them right now as Lior may and McGreevy So you never know Um but it it's gonna be a real test for the staff

[01:07:10] ben: Yeah. And, and just if you have not been paying attention to the doers, uh, heads up that Mookie bets and Tommy Edmond are on the IL right now. So, we'll, we'll miss a couple of their, I guess not star, uh, uh, one star and one former Cardinal.

[01:07:25] Nate: Yeah Um after that continue in the NL Central the Milwaukee Brewers come to town Uh what how are you feeling about the brewers now a month into the season

[01:07:41] ben: Yeah, I mean, you know, they are a perpetually confounding team. Um, you know, I, I was really high on the brewers and, uh, Andrew Vaughn kind of having a full season together. You know, they're, uh, they have Vaughn, [01:08:00] Cheerio, and Yellich. All on the IL right now. So they are, they are playing with at least a hand tied behind their back and you know, they, they have some guys that have had some interesting starts and stuff like that and they, they still have William Contreras and we talked about Teang and uh, Sal Relic and, you know, they have some good players over there.

But, um, you know, uh, the Cheerio Yelich and Vaughn arguably their most potent bats outside of Contreras and they're not gonna be there.

[01:08:28] Nate: Well so Cheerio is actually starting a rehab assignment this weekend and if that goes without a problem they are planning on reactivating him on Monday so he he would be in that series but it would be his first series back since you know breaking his hand So

[01:08:51] ben: how do you know, how do guys come back from fractured hands? It's always weird. Maybe he'll be fine. Maybe he won't be. Um, but you [01:09:00] know, I, I, the fractured hand is always those little baby bird bones, you know, and they, they,

[01:09:04] Nate: now

[01:09:04] ben: freak me out,

[01:09:05] Nate: Well it's a weird one too because it was it happened in the World Baseball Classic and he continued to play and they actually did an x-ray and called it fine and then they did an x-ray later and found a very small um you know crack and But it still has taken him over a month to heal

[01:09:24] ben: Yeah.

[01:09:24] Nate: back So what he could be coming back fully healed anyway they really took their time with him and and it's gonna be Jackson Cheerio or it could be uh uh you know a slowed down version of him because of that at least a less powerful version which is usually the side effect of hand injuries

[01:09:40] ben: Yeah.

[01:09:41] Nate: Um so we'll see

[01:09:43] ben: Yeah.

[01:09:43] Nate: but I just bring it up to say is that he will likely be there that week

[01:09:47] ben: right.

[01:09:47] Nate: series

[01:09:48] ben: Uh, from a pitching standpoint, the Cardinals are not as lucky. Uh, this, this, uh, series as they were with the Dodgers, uh, it's gonna be Brandon Sprout against Kyle Lehe. Uh, [01:10:00] for game, uh, Monday night game. Tuesday is Brandon w Woodruff against Andre Ante, and then Wednesday is Jacob Mki against Hunter Dobbins making his cardinal debut, which is, I think very exciting.

You know, I, I don't know exactly where expectations should be, but think I'm just excited to see a new guy in a Cardinal's uniform pitch.

[01:10:22] Nate: Yeah well this could be the start of one of the future you know anchors of the rotation Uh maybe Higher end maybe our number four for the next five years We don't know Uh but I will say it'll be nice to fi to have this whole off season was all about adding all of these new pitchers And outside of Dustin May we've seen none of them So it'll just be nice to have another new like a starter in the rotation They're like alright who is this guy Who is this

[01:10:54] ben: Hey.

[01:10:54] Nate: and um you know begin that evaluation process I'm excited

[01:10:59] ben: Yeah. [01:11:00] Yeah, he's been good. Not great in aaa. Um. You know, I, I, I'm not super concerned with him in 22 and two thirds innings and aaa, it's a pretty small sample. Um, but obviously he's been good in the minors in the past. He was good enough to crack the major league roster with Boston last year and, and was okay in a cup of coffee.

So, uh, yeah, I'm, I'm excited. I mean, we talked about this, I, I'm kind of, of the opinion that Hunter Dobbins is arguably one of the five best starting pitchers right now. Um, for the Cardinals anyway, so, we'll, let's see what we got and, uh, take the cellophane off and, and, and let it rip.

[01:11:36] Nate: yeah yeah Looking forward to it

[01:11:39] ben: Sweet.

[01:11:40] Nate: um all right What do you got for us from a League news

[01:11:43] ben: got a good one this week, Nate. We got, we got some hot news coming. Uh, the Red Sox fire, Alex Cora. Uh, they also announced, uh, that they were firing, hitting Coach Peter Fast, assistant hitting Coach Dylan Lawson, bench Coach [01:12:00] Ramon Vasquez, third base outfield coach Kyle Hudson and Major League hitting strategist Joe Cronin.

Uh, AAA Manager, tra chay tra. Chad Tracy will become the interim manager for the,

[01:12:13] Nate: Chay

[01:12:14] ben: for the, uh, for the big League club.

[01:12:16] Nate: trad wife Instagram I'm I'm trad cha

[01:12:20] ben: That that woman exists on TikTok, I am sure of it. Um, and then I just had to, I think I saw this floating around Reddit and I felt the need to, to share it if people missed it. Uh, but an Anon anonymous Red Sox alum was quoted on, uh, saying this about CO is firing. He said, uh, it's like shitting your pants and changing your shirt, which I thought was beautiful.

I'm getting that tattooed. Um, but yeah, you know, obviously the Red Sox have had a really rough start. They are currently 12 and 18. Uh, they made a bunch of acquisitions over the off season. [01:13:00] Um, I, you know, I think you and I are the, under the agreement that they are a pretty talented club. Um. But you know, like, is this, is it Alex Cora's fault that, um, Roman Anthony and Jaron Duran and Caleb Durbin and Trevor's story and their catching group have been essentially nothing like, is that Cora's fault?

I don't know. Um, obviously it's. Being blamed on Alex Cora. Um, and you know, he, he's the one that's fired, uh, you know, is it, uh, Sonny Gray is on the 15 day IL is that Alex Cora's fault? Um, is, you know, the fact that most of their bullpen hasn't been good. Is that Alex Cora's fault? I don't know. I, I am kind of, of the opinion that, um, Craig Breslow is not.

Awesome at his job and is like really, really held up by the work that he received from Bloom, um, and [01:14:00] his player acquisition prior to taking over. Um, and I feel that pretty strongly. I don't know, you know, the Ranger Suarez deal is working out pretty well so far. Um, but a lot of his deals are odd.

[01:14:17] Nate: It is it's always hard I mean we've argued back and forth um on the importance of like the Alex Cora role right Um but at the end of the day when a team that is supposed to perform is underperforming and you do look at that roster and you say like these guys should be good This should be a good team and they're not It is very very normal in this sort of world to first thing you do is you look at the coaching staff you

[01:14:49] ben: Yeah.

[01:14:49] Nate: uh now whether that's right or wrong we don't know but I'm not too surprised that they're taking that They ultimately took the blame for it Little surprised to see such a [01:15:00] cleaving of the head You know they they removed everybody

[01:15:05] ben: Yeah.

[01:15:06] Nate: like oh we're going a different direction with than Ox Core It's like that whole group which apparently they all took a bus together when they all got fired afterwards which is kind of cute And what a uh weird bus ride that had to have been Um but uh yeah surprising this early too you know like 12 and

[01:15:22] ben: That's, that's what I find. I.

[01:15:24] Nate: yeah It's not insurmountable you know uh better teams have had worse starts than that and have come back you

[01:15:31] ben: Yeah. And again, I go back to like you have, uh, Trevor Story, Caleb Dur, Jaron Duran, all have a WRC plus of under 49. Um, those are all pros. They've been in the league for years. I find it very hard to believe that that is, um, Joe Cronin's fault.

[01:15:50] Nate: Right

[01:15:51] ben: but I, I really think it comes down to what you just said.

It's like you're firing your manager this far into the season. Like that, that comes [01:16:00] across to me as like, you don't know what the hell's going on. You don't know what your crew does. You, you, you have like no barometer on what's going on and you are being extremely reactionary. Now,

[01:16:11] Nate: Yeah.

[01:16:11] ben: thing that is always annoying, and, and we'll talk about this with the Phillies too, the thing that always drives me crazy about this is that because they have good players and good pitching and they're performing poorly right now, they will almost guaranteed have a better.

Record going forward than they have right now, at least from a winning percentage standpoint, because they will regress to the mean, um, to some degree.

[01:16:35] Nate: and then Breslow will be like, wow, what a, what a move. You

[01:16:40] ben: Yeah.

[01:16:41] Nate: real executive.

[01:16:42] ben: Yeah. Buster Olney will, will write an article in, uh, in January talking about the, how it turned the season around.

[01:16:50] Nate: Yeah.

[01:16:51] ben: but, uh, it doesn't work like that.

[01:16:54] Nate: Jaron Duran's Babi just increased 70 points

[01:16:57] ben: Yeah.

[01:16:57] Nate: you know, the season turned around and [01:17:00] they started winning games and, but that's actually because Craig Glo.

[01:17:04] ben: Yeah. So interesting move. Um, you know, the, the Red Sox just kind of being, I mean, they've been messy for a couple of years, and this is just more of it.

[01:17:15] Nate: Yeah.

[01:17:15] ben: All right. Uh, speaking of messy baseball clubs, uh, the Phillies fired Rob Thompson, um, which I found very surprising. They named Don Mattingly, uh, the interim manager for the time being.

And I, and I kind of copy and paste, you know, everything I said about the Red Sox onto this, like, again. Is it Rob Thompson's fault that Bryson Stot, um, and Alec Bom are two of the worst players in baseball right now? Probably not.

[01:17:47] Nate: Probably not.

[01:17:49] ben: but you gotta blame somebody. Um, and, and that's the manager. Rob Thompson.

Rob Thompson. You know, he said an interview, like his relationship with the Phillies and um, Dave Drows Dombrowski [01:18:00] has never been stronger, um, even though he just fired him, you know, so whatever that means. But, um,

[01:18:04] Nate: Yeah.

[01:18:05] ben: it's a weird situation.

[01:18:07] Nate: Yeah. Um. Surpri. 'cause a Philly's been good for several years. Um, he's been their manager for I think all of these good years. Maybe, uh, maybe not all of 'em, but he's been there for a little while. So it is kind of surprising after a bad four weeks to just remove him. Um, 'cause I like this. Does kind of this. Seems like maybe one of the last years of this core really being able to like, push for a championship. But I'd also say, um, so I understand some urgency, like, Hey, we need to win and we need to win right now. Um, but yeah, same, same argument as Red Sox. Like it's a pretty good team. just started like the, it's probably gonna be fine when it's all said and done and is changing the manager, uh, really going to do anything.

Um. not. Probably these players play the way they're gonna play, but I've never, [01:19:00] I've never been able to really recognize, uh, or truly care about the, like, impact of an individual manager on the

[01:19:08] ben: Yeah, just looking at their team really quick. Jesus LoDo. Has a ERA of five 50, a FIP of 2.75. Huge. Delta. Andrew Painter has a ERA of 5.25. His FIP is 3.33. Seems like bad luck. Um, it, I will say, like, I thought we, we talked about this over the winter. Like I'm of the opinion that they should have traded for Nolan Ado, like having Alec BII think Alec BM is not a good baseball player.

[01:19:38] Nate: Yeah.

[01:19:38] ben: and.

[01:19:39] Nate: Uh, a's been on a little bit of a heater over the last couple weeks

[01:19:42] ben: It's been a lot of fun. Not, it doesn't frustrate me at all. Um, so I have no problem with it, but he looks like he is having fun in the desert, and that makes me happy.

[01:19:53] Nate: we're happy for him.

[01:19:55] ben: All right. Uh, staying in Phillies News, they also finally released Taiwan Walker. Um, if you [01:20:00] remember, he made that big deal after that, uh, what was like four good months with the Mets or whatever, that he turned into like 80 million bucks, but good for Taiwan.

Um, he is a free agent now. Uh, and the guardian selected the, uh, the guy from down under Nate,

[01:20:16] Nate: Travis

[01:20:17] ben: Travis Bana, uh, former number one overall pick. Um. Bana, uh, and he is now the guardian's second baseman of now, and probably a while, um, I don't know if you watched this, but they were interviewing his parents on the Guardian's broadcast and his dad is this like big, big Australian guy with a great accent and he was getting emotional on the broadcast and it was so sweet.

He was so proud of his son.

[01:20:45] Nate: Yeah.

[01:20:47] ben: I gotta throw a shrimp at the Bobby, you know, through tears.

[01:20:52] Nate: rise of lights.

[01:20:53] ben: Yeah, that was pretty good.

[01:20:55] Nate: Yeah. Good for him. Um, it's always fun when a top prospect gets called up and we all like the [01:21:00] guardian, so hopefully he's, uh, they, they continuously churn out these like productive guys. So I

[01:21:06] ben: You gotta get J Ram some help there. I just wanna see

[01:21:10] Nate: Yeah.

[01:21:11] ben: him do anything worthwhile.

[01:21:13] Nate: Yeah.

[01:21:14] ben: All right, that's all I got for League News, Nate.

[01:21:16] Nate: All right, ham Bo, we are actually about 20% of the way into the season.

[01:21:24] ben: Wow.

[01:21:24] Nate: crazy?

[01:21:25] ben: Wow.

[01:21:26] Nate: like it just got started and in many ways it has just gotten started because we still have 80% of the season to go. Uh, and, uh, but we're, we're starting to creep out of the small sample size territory.

[01:21:39] ben: And, but.

[01:21:40] Nate: take a minute. Uh. And, but

[01:21:44] ben: That's what you just said.

[01:21:46] Nate: great.

[01:21:48] ben: is what I was trying to say.

[01:21:50] Nate: Uh, and, but, uh, we, I thought it'd be fun to take a look at where the team ranks overall,

[01:21:58] ben: Wow.

[01:21:58] Nate: in some of the [01:22:00] key categories across hitting, pitching and defense, and another edition of

[01:22:04] ben: Wow.

[01:22:05] Nate: All right Hand Bone. So I'm gonna give you a category I want you to guess. Where the team ranks in MLB in this category. Okay.

[01:22:16] ben: do that.

[01:22:18] Nate: Uh, so where do you think the team ranks in batting average?

[01:22:26] ben: Uh, let's see. We don't really. Even like our high average guys don't really have a high average right now just because recent events, uh, I'm gonna say that we are gonna be in the lower half of that statistic. I'm gonna say 23.

[01:22:47] Nate: You're very close. They're the 20th in the league in

[01:22:51] ben: That was pretty good. Pretty good.

[01:22:52] Nate: I think Jordan Walker lifted them quite a bit.

[01:22:55] ben: Yeah. I would say so.

[01:22:57] Nate: Yeah. Uh, okay. How about [01:23:00] OPS?

[01:23:01] ben: PSI feel like we're better at that. Um, are we a top 10 club? OPS? Um, I feel like we're right on the edge. I'm gonna say, uh, I'm gonna go with 12. Got 12 OPS in baseball.

[01:23:21] Nate: You are close again, and they are top 10. They are in fact 10th overall in

[01:23:25] ben: Oh, wow.

[01:23:26] Nate: OPS.

[01:23:27] ben: All right. All right. I see you

[01:23:29] Nate: OPS, I think is the best, just overall measurement of offensive success. And the Cardinals are 10th, so pretty good.

[01:23:38] ben: not bad

[01:23:41] Nate: all right. Uh, let's do home runs. Yeah.

[01:23:46] ben: runs. I feel like I looked at this number not too long ago. Um, obvi Cardinal's had a little bit of a. Power surge recently that OPS being top 10 means that the homers are probably top 10. Um, [01:24:00] OPS was 10th. Um, I be, I bet our power is a little better than average, but our walks are a little lower than average.

Um, so I'm gonna go, I'll just go with nine. We're ninth in Homers.

[01:24:16] Nate: You have been exactly wrong or you've been wrong in the exact, uh, same amount every time. They are. Seventh in home runs.

[01:24:24] ben: Wow.

[01:24:25] Nate: The

[01:24:25] ben: Wow. Okay.

[01:24:26] Nate: near top five in power, which is I think are easily the biggest surprise of the

[01:24:32] ben: Easily,

[01:24:32] Nate: Uh,

[01:24:33] ben: yeah.

[01:24:34] Nate: year they had a single guy hit 20 home runs and he hit exactly 20 that was Wilson. Um, and. were bottom ranked, uh, or near bottom in every power output. And they're now top 10 in OPS and top seven in home runs. Uh, well that's sustained. We'll see. But, uh, still, uh, pretty incredible turnaround and why, uh, we have all started feeling more and more confident in this offense. Um, you know, for the long [01:25:00] haul,

[01:25:00] ben: Hell yeah, brother.

[01:25:01] Nate: they are, 12th overall in stolen bases as well.

[01:25:04] ben: Okay.

[01:25:05] Nate: Overall pretty good offense. Let's go into starting pitching. Um, let's look at ERA. Where are they? In the league? In ERA.

[01:25:18] ben: I am not feeling good about, uh, 25. It's not good

[01:25:22] Nate: You are again, wrong by two. So you

[01:25:25] ben: ett.

[01:25:25] Nate: incredible track record. Here They are. 23rd. Um, I will give you, 'cause we talked about this last week. they are 30th in K per nine,

[01:25:36] ben: I could have got that

[01:25:38] Nate: dead last in K per nine. But where are they in walks per nine BB per nine.

[01:25:44] ben: per nine. I feel like we're not so bad at that. Um. I can't think of any starting pitcher. That's really, I, I'm probably wrong, but I can't think of any starting pitcher off the top of my head that's really [01:26:00] had a walk problem. Um, I think we are slightly above average. I'm gonna go with 13th in an MLB.

[01:26:13] Nate: This is your biggest miss. I would've missed big two. Uh, the Cardinals are sixth overall in starting pitching walks per nine. It is, outside of a couple things that we'll get to here in a moment, uh, it is where they are best ranked in baseball.

[01:26:29] ben: Okay.

[01:26:30] Nate: Um. So I, and finally from a starting, uh, pitching standpoint, I will just give you, they are 29th in home runs per nine. so giving up a lot of dingers. How about the relief pitching though? Where are they in home runs per nine.

[01:26:51] ben: Hmm. Ri none. Jojo, none. Stanek sum, [01:27:00] uh, geez. I don't know this, this is a pure guess. I have absolutely no idea. Uh, I'm gonna go with uh, uh, 18th.

[01:27:11] Nate: panicked. They are seventh

[01:27:14] ben: Wow. Okay.

[01:27:15] Nate: nine. Um,

[01:27:17] ben: felt worse than that.

[01:27:19] Nate: it has felt worse than that. Well, 'cause every relief home run, just

[01:27:23] ben: Painful.

[01:27:23] Nate: feels good.

[01:27:24] ben: Yeah.

[01:27:26] Nate: Um, How about, well, I'll just get, so hits per nine is the second best thing that the relief pitching has, which is 14th

[01:27:36] ben: Okay.

[01:27:36] Nate: and then everything else is in the back half of the league. Um, I mean, K per nine is 29th. Uh, let's talk about Fielding. Where are they in DRS? Defensive runs saved

[01:27:51] ben: I mean, I don't know this to be, but it feels like a top five club. Um, so I'm gonna go [01:28:00] DRS, I'm gonna go three.

[01:28:05] Nate: and they're fourth. overall in defensive runs.

[01:28:10] ben: All right. All right.

[01:28:12] Nate: Yeah. Uh, how about outs above average?

[01:28:15] ben: I think this is gonna be really high too. Um, kinda wanna say three again. I'm gonna say three again. Three.

[01:28:22] Nate: You said the answer, but you said it in a different way when you said this is going to be high Two.

[01:28:29] ben: Oh, wow.

[01:28:31] Nate: overall

[01:28:31] ben: I.

[01:28:31] Nate: in the league and outs above

[01:28:34] ben: I'm circling getting this right. Really close.

[01:28:37] Nate: you're so close. Um, so. They're basically top five in all in, in most of the advanced. Um. Defensive metrics, which, you know, we're starting to get ATO see the clear story of, of this team.

Right. Um, know, it is a team that is better offensively than we expected

[01:28:57] ben: Yeah.

[01:28:58] Nate: ways. Top, [01:29:00] near top of the league, but none of it is. Running away with it. This is not a, uh, across the board top 10 offense, but it's a competitive offense. Um, the starting pitching is bad. The relief is pretty bad except for a few key things, but their defense is top tier, so. You can start to see like if we could just swap a few of these starting pitchers, uh, for something that's even just like remotely middle of the league. Uh, and some of these relievers start to normalize to even remotely middle of the league. It's actually a winning team, you know? Um, I think the nice thing is that when we think about the work that has been done to improve this team and the future of the team. So much of that is in pitching. So will that be 2027? Will it be 2026? Will this hitting continue like this? Or even grow, you know, all unknowns. you can certainly see like what's working, what's not working, and hopefully what's [01:30:00] not working like the plan is in place to solve. So I think the team is playing better.

Their record is much better than the team, uh, would indicate right now. Um, but. When we're, we're in rebuild mode and we're looking at what's working, what's not working. It's like I'm feeling pretty good about the trajectory of this team, even if I suspect we have a pretty heavy losing, uh, period sometime in the near future.

[01:30:26] ben: Yeah, I think, you know, it'll be really, you know, we talked about the hunter bins. How is that going to look? When, when do we start pushing guys like Kyle Lehe out of the rotation and Andre ante, and are there replacements going to come up and do something? When is. Uh, Quinn Matthews going to make the change or do the, the, the consistent, um, thing where we can actually plug him into the major league rotation and feel good about that for the foreseeable future if, if he's ready to make that move.

Um, but yeah, it's, it's getting easier and easier to see, um, that is for sure.

[01:30:59] Nate: [01:31:00] Yeah. So, that is going to do it for this game and also this episode, Hamon, I will see you tomorrow,

[01:31:08] ben: Right. And early baby.

[01:31:09] Nate: our, yeah. And, uh, for everyone else, we'll see you next week in another episode. Uh, as always, please check out, uh, all of our socials and the Patreon and everything@talkingaboutbirds.com. Make sure to tell your friends, tell your family, uh, hang out with us.

We are, uh, I think we're still, we're in for another interesting week of Cardinal Baseball. A couple tough series, but I think it'll be fun either way. And I'll say, until next weekend. Until next week, go Cardinals.

[01:31:38] ben: Double JW.

[01:31:45] Nate: All right.