OVER DEZE AFLEVERING
It’s not every day you get to chat with someone who’s been doing what you do—but at a much higher level—for 15 years straight.
This week on Substack Writers’ Salon, I sat down with Brad Listi novelist, founder of Deep Dive writing courses, and the creator/host of Otherppl with Brad Listi—a literary podcast that has racked up over 1,300 episodes and interviewed hundreds of leading writers, including George Saunders.
I’ll be honest: I started the conversation feeling a healthy dose of podcast envy. Brad has spoken with authors such as Ottessa Moshfegh, Dave Eggers, and countless others I’d love to have on my own show. So I asked the obvious question:
“What’s your secret sauce?”
Starting Early + Staying Consistent = Magic
Brad’s answer was refreshingly unglamorous:
* He launched in 2011, when literary interview podcasts were still rare.
* He reached out directly (he even emailed George Saunders at Syracuse—and got a reply).
* Most importantly, he fed the stray cats. Week after week. For 15 years.
“If you don’t feed the stray cats, the stray cats are going to go to somebody else’s house.”
Today, his schedule is: new author interview every Tuesday, a fun pop-culture series with Mira Gonzalez on Thursdays, and archival “golden oldies” on Sundays. He’s missed hardly any weeks in a decade and a half.
Consistency, it turns out, builds legitimacy. After enough time, people start seeing your show as “a thing.”
How Does He Book Big Names Now?
Early on: cold emails and personal connections.
Now? The publicists come to him. He gets 50–75 requests a day. For someone like Stephen King? Probably not happening unless it’s NPR-level. But for most working authors, the door is open if the show has proven staying power.
My takeaway: If you’re just starting, reach out directly. Be genuine. Build your own small audience first. The snowball takes time, but it does grow.
The Money Question (and the Reality Check)
Brad is candid about monetization. He makes some money—through ads via an ad network (The Podglomerate), his long-running book club, and Deep Dive courses—but he’s not in the “podcast empire” category.
“It’s a 1% economy. I’m not in the 1%.”
He doesn’t believe every author needs a podcast. Only do it if you genuinely enjoy the conversations. And he pushed back hard on the marketing-guru advice that “you must do a podcast tour to sell books.”
His realistic take:Podcast appearances are like bookstore events. Even a “middling” show can expose you to hundreds of people. Conversion rates are low (think banner-ad math from the old internet days), but the long tail matters—someone might hear you today and buy your book two years from now.
Word of mouth and cosmic timing still rule book sales. Nobody has cracked the code.
Audio Purist in a Video World
This was the most fun part of the conversation—Brad and I gently sparred about video.
He loves the intimacy of audio: earbuds in, walking the dog, letting a conversation unfold without staring at another screen. He resents the algorithmic pressure that turns everyone into a TV show.
I played devil’s advocate: many people (including me while cooking dinner) prefer video. Clips on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube Shorts are how many listeners discover new podcasts.
Brad’s stubborn (and principled) stance: He’s holding the line for audio lovers. Radio didn’t die when TV arrived, and good podcasts won’t die either.
(Full disclosure: I’m still team “do both when you can.” But I respect his resistance.)
Other Gems from Brad
* He reads (or rather, speed-listens at 2.5x) most guest books to honor the work, while keeping the conversation human and accessible.
* He runs a paid book club via PayPal where members get the selected book + an author interview. There’s churn, but it’s been running for 15 years.
* On outsourcing: He’s a one-man band by choice (trust issues with editing!), but he admits a good VA could solve 99% of his headaches.
* His advice to new podcasters: Use something like Riverside for clean audio. Don’t obsess over the “perfect” platform. Just start.
Final Thoughts
Brad Listi is proof that longevity and genuine curiosity still matter in the crowded creator space. He’s not chasing every trend, not turning himself into a brand, and not burning out trying to game algorithms. He just keeps showing up, having real conversations, and building something that enriches his own life first.
If you haven’t listened to Otherppl, go fix that. It’s available wherever you get podcasts (just search “Otherppl” — spelled annoyingly but worth it).
Links:
* Podcast: Otherppl.com
* Brad’s site: BradListi.com
* His Substack: bradlisti.substack.com
What about you? Are you team audio-only or team video clips? Would you start (or keep) a podcast purely for the love of conversation, even if the money stays modest?
Drop your thoughts below—I read every comment.
And if you enjoyed this, hit the ❤️ or share it with a writer friend who’s thinking about launching their own show.
Until next time,Natasha
Read and Write with Natasha is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a paid subscriber, and you will get lifetime access to some of my courses and paid masterclasses (worth over $300).
P.S. Special thanks to everyone who joined the live Substack Salon—especially Holly for the kind comments that made Brad (temporarily) less cranky. 😄
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