00:00:05
Speaker 1: This is Straight Fire with Jason McIntyre. What is up, Straight Fire fam?
00:00:12
Speaker 2: It's me, Jason McIntyre, Straight Fire. For Wednesday, October the 14th. We got a great one today. The one and only Peter King, the man, the myth, the legend. He is going around talking about his book. And I got to give it to Peter King. So he's doing every show under the sun. And I swear every single time he talks to somebody, he's got a new story to unearth. There are some really good ones we recorded on Monday. We did talk a little Chiefs Rams. He thinks that's going to be the Super Bowl. That was his pick. And it looks like it's going to hold up. Man, Peter King, good guy. Still got it.
00:00:49
Speaker 3: Peter King.
00:00:49
Speaker 2: I will say back when I had the website, this was like 2007, eight, nine ish. I'll never forget. I was just, this was like pre social media. I blindly emailed him. I was like, dude, you do great work. He didn't even know who I was. I was like, Hey, I'm a young journalist. Can I just send you some questions on via email and you answer? He's like, yeah, sure. Didn't even know he was talking to any answer. It was great. And, um, you know, he was one of the early guys who was willing to talk to me when he didn't know who I was. I was running a website anonymously and eventually, you know, sports illustrated ended up being the one to, uh, reveal who I was. Um, But yeah, Peter King, super nice guy. And I did run into him in Hawaii four years ago. He was on some, he had some family gathering, I guess. Not quite like a family reunion, but it was a lot of Peter King's family there. And super nice guy in part, right? And probably nobody recognized him. I'm like, holy cow, I think that's Peter King. Yeah, yeah, that's him. Just a nice guy. He's got a great book. And you're going to love these stories. Peter King on Straight Fire.
00:01:55
Speaker 1: Jason likes to think he knows everything when it comes to sports.
00:01:59
Speaker 4: I know what sports fans want.
00:02:01
Speaker 1: But for everything he doesn't, he knows a guy who does.
00:02:04
Speaker 3: Let's just say I know a guy who knows a guy who knows another guy.
00:02:09
Speaker 2: All right, let's welcome back to Straight Fire a special guest, one of the best to ever cover the sport of football ever.
00:02:17
Speaker 3: In America.
00:02:17
Speaker 2: He's worked everywhere. I remember reading him as a kid in Sports Illustrated. Finally got to meet him. And then I ran into him in Hawaii four years ago. Now he's writing books in his retirement. Peter King, welcome back to Straight Fire.
00:02:31
Speaker 4: How are you, my man?
00:02:32
Speaker 3: What retirement? Man, this book, Jason, it's 192,000 words. I don't want to intimidate anybody, but I did the audio book and it took me nine days. Wow.
00:02:44
Speaker 2: And how many hours a day is that reading for the game is the book is called The Game, by the way.
00:02:49
Speaker 3: Yeah, like four and a half. So the book basically is I cut it down from about 220 to 192. And and basically the book is about my loosely about my 40 years covering the NFL. But in essence, it's about in 1984 when I started. The NFL was in a virtual dead heat with Major League Baseball for popularity in the U.S. And in 2025, the year after I got out, the Harris Poll asked Americans their favorite sport, 41% football, 10% baseball. So how did that happen? And I tell you, because I was on the front lines of pretty much everything, you know, covering the NFL for 40 years, the games. the power brokers, everybody. And so I go back and tell one story every year that I covered the game from 1984 to 2023. And I don't just give my greatest hits. I went back and re-reported all of these stories that I tell. You know, why did I, because Jason, you know, you do this for a long time. And even though you have finished a story, OK, and the story is in your rearview mirror. When you think about it, sometimes you say, huh, was it really true that Bill Walsh really kind of went off the deep end and and was was a shell of himself in the last year he coached the 49ers? You'll read in this book, you'll say, wow, Walsh was was really had a tough year that year, even though they won the Super Bowl. Uh, you'll see in, uh, you know, 1993, did Reggie white really want to go to green Bay? I have my doubts and you'll, you'll read, you'll read that. I have a few more than doubts, you know, but, uh, but, uh, and then, you know, when the towers fell in New York on nine 11, I was covering the NFL. Obviously that was a big time in America and in American sports. And I went to interview Paul Tagliabue, the commissioner of the NFL, five days after the towers fell. And I met him in his office. And I always wondered, was it simply emotion or was it something else that led Paul Tagliabue to cry? The cold fish of us, rock solid guy, Paul Tagliabue never showed any emotion. He started crying when I was interviewing him. And I tell you, not to give away everything, but Paul Tagliabue, I believe, was crying because he thought there was going to be a second attack and it could involve a nuclear bomb. Oh, jeez. Yeah. And so I'm not saying that all the chapters are as holy crap as that. Right, right. But what I am saying is, You know, Jason, did you like I wonder strange things sometimes. So like after the Eagles beat the Patriots, after Nick Foles and Doug Peterson beat Tom Brady and Bill Belichick. I mean, you know, that was a stunner. They scored 41 points on Brady throws for 505 yards. One of the best games a quarterback has played in any game, never mind a Super Bowl. And he gets beat by eight points by somebody named Nick Foles. Well, how did Foles do it? And why was it? I remember seeing Foles after that game, totally unaffected, just an absolute flatliner. I said, how did he do it? How do you play the biggest game of your life, the best game of your life in the biggest game of your life? How do you do that? And so I attacked that with Nick Foles for a long time. We had long, long conversation. And Doug Peterson. But basically, I've always wondered, how did Nick Foles do that? And I think I'm going to tell you in this book.
00:07:16
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, that sounds exciting.
00:07:17
Speaker 2: It's weird because I think both those guys were non-factors in the.
00:07:21
Speaker 4: League like three years later.
00:07:23
Speaker 3: Yes. Yeah, Doug Peterson gets whacked and Nick Foles never has another good year.
00:07:29
Speaker 2: Never. NFL's crazy like that. Let me go back to something you said. So NFL was battling baseball back in the 80s for supremacy, and now it's totally dominant. How much of that is, do you think, traced to the internet in the mid-90s and the Cowboys' surge? um, with three straight, uh, championships, because I just feel like the internet changed everything. I was a football fan in the eighties, but it wasn't, it wasn't the best sport. Baseball was huge. I feel like the internet sped things up and baseball became just too.
00:08:00
Speaker 3: Slow for everyone. I think there's much to be said for that, Jason. I think that's a great observation, but just to kind of let people know. So in 1984, uh, The NFL was in the middle of having two player strikes in a five-year span, 82 and 87. They got murdered by Al Davis in a case that the courts allowed Al Davis to move from Oakland to Los Angeles, even though the NFL fought him on that, but he won. So the NFL was in a big slump. And so people won't remember this, but could you believe that in 1984, in prime time ratings on American television. Monday Night Football was the 25th show that year in prime time ratings. Jason, that famous, famous, classic old show that everybody remembers, Scarecrow and Mrs. King beat the NFL that year. And so there's where we were. The NFL basically, I think there were three things. And I'll give you your point about that. But one of the things I write about in the book is that the NFL began to make this consciously a 12-month-a-year business. And they occupied the off-season with tentpole events, okay? The Scouting Combine was never on TV until the early 2000s. Then Paul Tagliabue. said, we're going to have a network. He hired Steve Bornstein, a TV guy, and he put him in charge. And Bornstein said, OK, we're going to put the we're going to put the scouting combine on TV. And everybody thought, oh, my God, who's going to watch the scouting combine? And granted, scouting combine doesn't get great ratings. But you know what it does get? It gets eyeballs from people who kind of miss football into the NFL two weeks, three weeks after the Super Bowl. Two weeks later, there's another tentpole event. Free agency begins. Then all the pre-draft crapola where all of the pro days are being put on television and all of the analysts and, and, you know, all the, all the people who used to only work in the fall. Now they work all through the spring and they're going to the pro days and they're interviewing coaches and players live. And they're putting these huge productions on, on all these campuses. So then that becomes a big deal for like four weeks. And then the draft. And then after that, all the other stuff, the mini camps and that. And there's a little bit of a lull in June and July. Oh, and I forgot one. How insane is it that the schedule, the release of the schedule is a TV show. It formerly was on both NFL Network and ESPN. Now, I don't know what they're going to do now. But so, Jason, I wrote about all this nonsense of shoving stuff down our throat that we don't need. No, that's fine. But we watch it anyway. But there's a term in the NFL office called breadcrumbing. Do you know what that is?
00:11:32
Speaker 2: I mean, I like to leave breadcrumbs for my family to drop my dropping hints. Hey, do your homework on time, you know, small stuff. But I'm sure the NFL is way more.
00:11:40
Speaker 3: Here's what breadcrumbing is. Breadcrumbing is, okay, we're going to have our schedule release show. on Thursday night at 8 o'clock. So Tuesday on the Today Show, Mike Tirico is going to go in studio, and he's going to tell Savannah, Savannah, here's our first game of the year. How great is this going to be? And then later that day on Fox and Friends, Fox is going to tell its big doubleheader game. And then Good Morning America is going to talk about the early– So they do this with about 10 nuggets. They just to get people kind of excited and to get them to be thinking about football on May 9th when nobody is thinking about football. The draft is over. Ha, blessed relief. We don't have to think about it. But now we're thinking, oh, my God, did you see the Patriots schedule? They're going to get killed early on. They're facing six straight playoff teams. It's ridiculous. So they do that. And that now has become an event. So they just decided we're going to own the sports calendar. And that's another thing. That's another big reason. But you're right. The internet has been huge. In 2014, I think. I forget what year. I think it was 2014. 2014. I went to Europe to do a story on the NFL's expansion. They're expanding, playing more games in Europe and all this. Will there ever be a team there? And I went with three players. And I remember it was in April, like the middle of April. And I was in Scotland. No, I was in Liverpool. I was in Liverpool. And we were at a theater in Liverpool. I was with three NFL players. Kirk Cousins was one of them. I was with three NFL players. And they were asking all of us questions. There's like 900 people there. And I at one point asked, what are you guys all doing here? I mean, do you really love the NFL? And your questions are incredible. Some guy was asking me if the Eagles, what I thought of the Eagles in the second round. Okay, I know that they got to get a pass rusher in the first round. Give me your best guess about the second round. I said, I have no clue. How would you know this? And he said, Peter, there's this thing called the internet. And so I think that has helped the NFL in these far-flung markets, quite honestly. But I think those are a few of the reasons why. And plus, Fox comes into the business and Rupert Murdoch builds a network on the back of the NFL. It's funny, I got a story in here that one of the NFL executives, a couple of years into the deal with Fox, like in the late 90s maybe, He said to him, Mr. Murdoch, thanks for being a great partner. It's been great to have you guys with us. He says, partner, I feel more like your financier. And I was thinking to myself, dude, why are you bitter? You sound bitter. Why in the world would you be bitter? You've just had an incredible series of events and television shows and great ratings because you So was it a little bit more than you expected to pay? Pay in the NFL $ 100 million more per year than you wanted to? You've made that up sixfold in the time because you've built a network on the back of the NFL.
00:15:14
Speaker 1: Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at foxsportsradio.com. And within the iHeartRadio app, search FSR to listen live.
00:15:27
Speaker 4: I mean, my still earliest memories are Madden and Summerall.
00:15:31
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:15:31
Speaker 2: And usually NFC East because I was in D.C. But yeah, Fox has done an amazing job now. NBC with Sunday Night Football. I think ESPN has the Super Bowl this year. So it's been really smart on the part of the NFL. I do have to ask you, though. I think the first misstep they're making is this insistence that we've got to play games in Sao Paulo.
00:15:52
Speaker 4: And is there a game in Madrid?
00:15:55
Speaker 3: I fervently. Yeah, there's a game in Madrid. I fervently disagree with you, but give me your point. I'll give you mine.
00:16:00
Speaker 2: Well, I just, listen, I don't think you, sure, one-off tentpole events are going to work in Germany and Dusseldorf and what have you. But this insistence to try to like, hey, maybe we're going to put a team in London.
00:16:11
Speaker 1: That's never going to work, Peter.
00:16:13
Speaker 3: It's not going to work. It's not. I think I was very surprised when Roger Goodell said that. And I don't think it'll ever work. The owners don't want it. And I don't think unless now, now, now, Jason, I'll just say this to you. Let's just say that something like live happens with a couple of franchises in the NFL. And I'll just live golf tour. Yes. So I'm just totally spitballing here, but I'm going to ask you this question. All right. Why did all those golfers go and take Saudi money? Why did they take Saudi money? Because it was ridiculous money. Totally absurd amounts of money, whatever it was. $ 100 million to go play in this silly tour that feels like it's minor league, but you're saying, I'm not turning down $ 100 million. No, hell no. I probably wouldn't either. I don't know. I probably wouldn't take Saudi money. But then again- Principle, I like it. Yeah, but then again, here's the point. What if some entity like the Saudis come along and they say to the NFL, okay, you know, your franchise fee normally, and I'm going to make this up, would be $ 2 billion, okay? We'll give you $ 20 billion. And we'll give, we want two franchises. We'll put one in London, one in Munich, and we'll give you $ 40 billion. I don't, I'm- Right, right.
00:17:47
Speaker 4: You just did, yeah, no, no, I get it.
00:17:49
Speaker 3: Whatever. And so honestly- You basically say, you basically say that essentially that if teams are for sale and they are going to drive up the NFL's, you know, the money the NFL brings in in a given year from $ 27 billion to $ 40 billion, I'm just going to tell you, the owners will say, I think it's a great idea to put a team in London.
00:18:18
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:18:19
Speaker 4: Well, OK, so that does make sense.
00:18:20
Speaker 3: I think it's idiotic myself. I think it's idiotic because here's the thing, Jason. I think you'd have to have a bigger salary cap for that team because what player says, you know, I was playing for the Bears this year, but next three years I'm going to play in Germany. And I mean, now you and I might say, hey, that's cool. That's an adventure. Let's go. I'll live in Europe for three years. That'd be great. I don't think that's the way players think myself.
00:18:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally agree.
00:18:50
Speaker 4: No, they're not going to want to do that.
00:18:51
Speaker 2: But plus, in the NBA, they're starting to talk about, you know, a franchise in Vegas or back to Seattle. And it sounds like Saudi money is probably going to be involved, right?
00:19:01
Speaker 4: Outside investors.
00:19:02
Speaker 3: Because only certain.
00:19:03
Speaker 2: People can own these NFL and NBA teams. But they're keeping them in America. If you want to expand in the NFL world, is there a market that would work that that's starving for an NFL team? I mean, Vegas got one that seems to be thriving pretty much, but.
00:19:17
Speaker 3: In my opinion, if you were talking about Europe, I, I think just my opinion, I think Germany's a better market than England.
00:19:28
Speaker 4: And that's because England has soccer. That's never gonna.
00:19:30
Speaker 3: Well, but Germany has soccer too, but I'm just saying that, that, uh, uh, I went to two games in Germany. Those people are crazy. They would love an NFL team. Now, having said that they love having games there too. So it's not a great idea for a lot of different reasons, at least in my opinion, but let me just talk about the one-off games or having, having a game in Germany every year, having a game in Spain every year and all that stuff. Look, I got in this argument with Chris Russo about it. Chris Russo hates it, you know, the dog. He really, really hates it.
00:20:15
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't hate it.
00:20:16
Speaker 3: You know why he hates it? Because he said it's ridiculous. It's almost like it's a personal affront to him that his NFL Sunday expands to 9.30 in the morning on all these days. And here's my whole point to people who really hate the exporting of NFL games. Okay, so Colts, Commanders. in London at nine 30, like I, I still love football and I, I mean, I'm a Scott Hanson devotee. So I am into the NFL every Sunday, but I didn't watch five minutes of Colts and commanders because if you're going to put a game on at nine 30 in the morning and I'm not covering the league at the time, I have to really want to watch that game. Now, if Tom Brady against Seattle, which is a game play Tampa, Seattle, which was played in 2022 was on at nine 30 in the morning, a hundred percent. I would watch it in the United States. Yes. Yeah. And it was, it was, but, but most of those games, but just think about it. All right. Even that Tampa Seattle game, that game was going to be telecast. All right. It was going to be a one. It was good. It was a Tampa home game. It was going to be telecast in on the West coast of Florida, Tampa, Sarasota-Bradenton, Fort Myers. I don't know up in Gainesville or whatever. I don't know where else. And I'm sure Orlando, okay? And then it was going to be shown where the Seahawks have their games, you know, probably Seattle, Portland, you know, maybe Idaho. I don't know. But anyway, it was going to be shown maybe in 15% of the country, maybe, all right? And so now, It's a national game. It's on at 9.30 in the morning. If you want to watch it, watch it. If you don't, don't. But you weren't going to watch it anyway. Right. If you live in New York, that game was not going to be on your TV. Yeah. And so you weren't going to watch it. So why do you care if it's on at 9.30 in the morning on national TV? So, and it's free for anybody to, well, free if you have. If you have cable. Yeah, yeah. But anyway, I guess what I'm saying is, I don't get exercised about it, but I do think I have been there. And can I say this, Jason? I'm going to tell you the one story that sticks in my head. I got there on, I think, Wednesday during the day into Germany. And so I just hung around, went to the practices, all that. And then on Friday morning, I took a walk. And I went to a place called, in Munich, Odeon's Platz. This square... in the middle of Munich is one of the places that Adolf Hitler spewed his vile, whatever it was, Third Reich stuff almost 90 years ago. And so this is where he was getting everyone in Germany to say Sieg Heil, you know, and he was forming this government and this group that was going to try to take over the world in essence. But, and so what was happening now? There were 32 oversized NFL helmets on the ground with kids, school kids. You'd see all the school buses. They had brought kids there and they were running around the square, taking pictures, laughing, running. There were NFL legends there, greeting kids, talking to kids, preaching the gospel of American football. It was just fun. It was really fun. And so that, look, I just think that whether it ever happens to any more degree than it is now, I don't see a problem with it at all.
00:24:10
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, it's not the end of the world.
00:24:11
Speaker 2: I think what irks me more than the international games, Peter, is this whole, the 1 p.m.
00:24:17
Speaker 4: Window and the 4 p.m.
00:24:18
Speaker 2: Window. I think red zone changed everybody's way of watching football. I'm a red zone guy. On TV2, I'll have my Jets or some other game. But, Peter, this whole like, oh, we only have three games at 4 o'clock today or we only have two because of buys and international, that.
00:24:34
Speaker 4: To me kills the 4 p.m.
00:24:35
Speaker 3: Window. And I know the.
00:24:37
Speaker 2: NFL does that by design so they can say, hey, we had this marquee game on Fox or CBS that.
00:24:42
Speaker 4: Drew 25 million viewers.
00:24:44
Speaker 2: They're obsessed with, it seems like, the winning this rating stuff. But I don't know, Peter, that just annoys me. And I do think they're over-reliant on the ratings because they're tapped out in America.
00:24:54
Speaker 4: We've seen the Super Bowl numbers come down a bit.
00:24:56
Speaker 3: Well, you know what is happening now, Jason? And I have to tell you, one of the chapters in my book is about the rise of women, both in football and around football. It's not the moms. It's people working in football. Big chunk of the chapter on Mina Kimes. Big chunk of the chapter. From ESPN? Oh, yeah. Because, listen, there are more women working on TV and football. The reason I highlighted Mina and the reason why I have so much respect for Mina is that she, and again, no criticism of any other woman who works on TV, and I don't mean this to be critical in any way, but Mina Kimes is on a set with people who are breaking down game tape and Dan Orlovsky, and she is winning arguments with Dan Orlovsky about why things happened in a football game on Sunday. So I have great, great respect for her. I think when you listen to her, you get smarter about football. You know, I was on Ryan Clark's Pivot podcast, and he's got Channing Crowder and Fred Taylor, and I was about to leave, and Fred Taylor comes up and he says, Peter, let me ask you a question. And I had no idea what it was going to be. And I was shocked when he said, what do you think of Mina Kimes? I said, she's good. She's really good. She's smart about football. He goes, yeah, I agree. Every time I watch her, I learn something. I just, you know, so, so anyway, anyway, I'm just, so a chapter, Mina Kimes, Nicole Blake, she's 30 years old. She runs the draft for the Los Angeles Rams. Kevin Demoff, president of the Rams told me she'll be the first female GM in the NFL. It's going to happen. And then as part of that chapter, I went to a girls flag football game in the state of Alabama in a small town. And Jason, you know, Friday night lights is obviously more than a cliche. It's real. Certainly in so many places in this country, everywhere, almost Friday night lights is huge. Well, Big day for this school in this small town in Alabama, Tuesday. So they call it Tuesday night lights. And they have cheerleaders, the band plays. They got fans that, you know, five refs or whatever. I mean, it is a big, big deal. And I said to myself, this is why. And Arthur Blank gave all of these schools in Alabama and Georgia and Montana because he lives in Montana part of the year. He gave them all kind of an endowment to start flag football teams in their school. And so all of these, you know, the NFL basically is investing in getting more women fired up about not just buying pink jerseys. They're getting them fired up about watching and learning and getting really into the sport itself. And, you know, I think That is the next frontier for the NFL. They want women to, they want as many women as they have men.
00:28:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting because I have a daughter and a son and they'll watch football with me and they know what's going on. And my daughter has friends who play flag football. But the Mina Kimes thing is interesting. I don't really know her takes because she has a show on at the same time, I think, as The Herd. So I'm not that familiar, but it sounds like you said, was it Fred Taylor, the running back?
00:28:38
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
00:28:40
Speaker 4: And so he's saying he likes some of her analysis.
00:28:43
Speaker 1: What is it about?
00:28:44
Speaker 2: I don't really, again, I'm not.
00:28:45
Speaker 3: She watches tape. She watches tape. She talks to coaches and she trusts her opinion. You know, you know, Bill Barnwell is, don't you?
00:28:56
Speaker 4: Bill Barnwell, ESPN guy.
00:28:57
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. So Bill Barnwell sort of Mina was getting into the NFL and Barnwell was kind of her sensei. Because she really admired how he broke down games. And so Bill, I think, I'm probably overstating this, kind of took her under his wing and taught her a lot about, hey, here's what you should watch. And you should watch the All-22. And you should read this. You ought to read that. And I just think if you listen to Mina Kimes, you soon realize that this is not somebody who And again, I sound like a jerk and a chauvinist when I say this, but this is not just somebody who hosts a show, okay? Or who works a sideline or who, which I know from being in TV, hosting a show is hard, okay? I'm telling you. And being on the sidelines because- You're working in a very tough environment. That's hard too. But what I'm saying is the mental football understanding part of it so that Mina can stand in the middle of the ring and slug it out with Dan Orlovsky and these guys who used to play football and who study it a lot. She's good at it.
00:30:23
Speaker 1: Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at FoxSportsRadio.com. And within the iHeartRadio app, search FSR to listen live.
00:30:36
Speaker 2: It almost sounds like the NFL has like an interest in promoting women on TV to help.
00:30:42
Speaker 4: Because they got the guys. You know, every guy in Cincinnati, every guy in the Midwest. Football's everything.
00:30:47
Speaker 3: Cheetos, beer.
00:30:47
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:30:48
Speaker 4: And now we need to get in a new group of people's women.
00:30:51
Speaker 3: It's funny. I don't even, I don't know whether the NFL has anything to do with telling, you know, Seth Markman or whoever runs the NFL coverage at ESPN. I don't, I have, I don't have any.
00:31:02
Speaker 4: What about NFL network? Do they have a lot of women on again? I'm not like, why.
00:31:07
Speaker 3: Do they have a lot? They have a lot of women on, but I don't think they have their mean at times. You know, because I just think she is, Uh, I just think she's a unicorn right now. You know, I have to check out her stuff.
00:31:22
Speaker 4: I mean, I, I'm not, so like, it's interesting.
00:31:24
Speaker 2: You say the understanding of football, this is what's fascinating to me. Peter is like, okay, we understand football. You understand it.
00:31:31
Speaker 4: I understand it. But what, like ultimately, where does that get us?
00:31:34
Speaker 2: Like we can watch a game and understand what's happening, but to what end, like, you know, you can watch the financial markets.
00:31:42
Speaker 3: But the question, but the question, Jason, the question is, uh, The question is, and you have to think of it in slightly different terms, I think. The biggest issue about all this is understanding the game itself better and watching shows on Monday and Tuesday and finding out, hey, like, you know, for instance, last weekend, I don't think I know Nick Sirianni fell on the sword and said at the end of that game in London against the Jaguars, I did the wrong thing. I made the wrong call on the kickoff by letting the Jaguars run the ball out. I think Nick Sirianni is full of crap.
00:32:32
Speaker 2: Well, yeah. The probability of that guy running it back 60 yards and going down with one.
00:32:36
Speaker 3: Second left is astronomical. Yeah, yeah. So my whole point is, my whole point is, and I have absolutely no idea what anybody, I'm just telling you what I think. But those are the kind of things you're going to look to smart football analysts to say, why did something weird like that happen in the game? So why did they make this call? And so I think that's where a lot of people. Yeah. Yeah. Smarter analytics. Yeah.
00:33:05
Speaker 2: So my interesting thing. So the gambling to me is the next frontier. And we do a lot of that on this podcast. And I look at it as, OK, I can understand the sport, but what's the next leg? And to me, it's like understanding the schemes and what works well for coaches and what doesn't.
00:33:21
Speaker 4: You know, Bryce Young, he's great.
00:33:23
Speaker 2: Against man or zone but he's horrible the opposite and so to me the understand i'm always like to what end like i like to understand football but i want to try to understand it to help me with fantasy and gambling and stuff i'm just do you think fantasy and gambling are a massive driver of course because again like middle america watches football and they want to understand but i think at the end of the day they want to they want to use it to win right.
00:33:50
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know. I don't gamble.
00:33:52
Speaker 1: What about fantasy?
00:33:52
Speaker 3: Do you? Oh, I play fantasy football. My daughter, who lives in Seattle, runs the family fantasy football league.
00:34:00
Speaker 4: Oh, you got a fantasy game.
00:34:01
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm into it. I try to win. But I think here's the thing. You say to what end. Listen, right now, you know. Let's just say you want the latest information on a Sunday game. you've probably done a lot of scouting around to see, you know, should I bench this guy? Should I play that guy? Whatever. And you might say, okay, I have to find Matthew Barry on Sunday morning, wherever he is, or I have to find, and pardon me, I don't really know all the fantasy business. I just, because it's not that important to me. I want to win, but I don't spend any time you know, looking into what somebody thinks who's going to have a big day, but it is a big deal. And so those shows, you know, on the weekend and on Sunday morning, those shows are big deals. And I would assume make some money for somebody.
00:35:03
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:35:04
Speaker 3: Because I mean, obviously a lot of people are gambling and everyone is looking for that edge and everyone is looking for, Oh my God, can I parlay? You know, can I parlay Amon Ross St. Brown number of catches with Will Reichert's field goals this week? I don't know because I just don't do it. But everybody is looking for what the smart money should be this weekend. Yeah.
00:35:30
Speaker 4: And it's interesting because I honestly, Peter, I know you like these.
00:35:33
Speaker 2: You know, I love Matthew Berry comes on the pod and you mentioned all these other people. I actually think the value is in the at-the-beat reporters who are on the ground.
00:35:42
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
00:35:42
Speaker 2: Like, for instance, the Saints Sunday morning, the Saints reporters who were with the team were like, hey, there's a major.
00:35:47
Speaker 4: Illness coming through.
00:35:48
Speaker 2: This is not great. And instantly for me, oh, my gosh, I got to start Aaron Jones at the running back. I got to bet on the Vikings. And that's a huge edge. So I know those there's a lot of people with value at NFL Network. And but to me, it's the reporters.
00:36:01
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
00:36:02
Speaker 2: They're the ones with the immense value, like the Albert Breer, I feel like has the best mailbag.
00:36:07
Speaker 1: You know, I know he's a good buddy of yours.
00:36:09
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:36:09
Speaker 2: He's got the most value. And even with NBA, Brian Windhorst has he'll he knows more than he lets on, but he can't say it all or it'll start brushfires. So you have to kind of read between the lines. And I just feel like the NFL does a great job allowing these reporters so much access. And you were a reporter back in the day at SI. Reporter turned columnist, right?
00:36:33
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I got hired to write the Inside the NFL column in 1989. And then, you know, as the business changed, I changed with it. I went to, I did halftime on Monday Night Football with Brent Musburger for two years. I did HBO inside the NFL for six years. I worked at NBC for a total of, geez, it's amazing, for a total of 16 years. Jeez. Like 10 of them on TV. And the whole thing is, I understand exactly what you're saying. The media landscape is changing. The business is changing. All that's changing. And you just have to adapt and change with it.
00:37:14
Speaker 2: Yeah. Peter King, the author of The Game, it's out now. Sounds like it's a great holiday reading. NFL has taken over Christmas, too.
00:37:22
Speaker 4: I mean, geez.
00:37:23
Speaker 3: You know what I had to... Jason, you want to hear a funny story? So, like in May, my editor said to me, he said, because I had already filed the book, it was in preparation to be printed, and he goes, hey, we got this offer from Barnes & Noble, and so... We're going to ask you to sign 4,200 title pages of your book. We're going to just send you 4,200 title pages. You're going to sign them, send them back, and we're going to put them in books. And those books will be part of Barnes & Noble's Black Friday sale, you know, at their bookstores around the United States. you'll be able to buy an autographed copy of the game with my real autograph. It's not a plate in the book. It's the actual title page of the book that I signed. So when the book was printed, they just inserted that page in there and there it is. But that's, that is how the business is just so, I knew nothing about the book business. I haven't written a book in decades, honestly, other than a couple of collections of stories, but. So I have been really interested. I'm totally into how the book business works, but that's part of it. Then I read the audio book, which took me nine days. But that whole part of it, the business side of this has been fascinating because I'm curious and I still am curious. And that was one of the things that really helped me in this book. What are the stories that I'm curious about that I want to go back and find out there's some incredible stuff about Peyton Manning at the Scouting Combine, and how he tried to differentiate himself from Ryan Leaf. And it's just so, looking back at it, for those of us who remember those times, is just, the stories are just too much. But anyway, yeah.
00:39:29
Speaker 4: We could wrap up, Peter.
00:39:30
Speaker 2: Who's winning the Super Bowl this year?
00:39:32
Speaker 4: Five weeks in, got five weeks.
00:39:35
Speaker 3: Worth of data. You know what I picked at the start of the year? At the start of the year, I picked the Rams and the Chiefs.
00:39:41
Speaker 4: Okay.
00:39:42
Speaker 3: It sounds like a good prediction so far. I mean, I.
00:39:48
Speaker 3: I really like the Niners obviously now, but everybody's going to like the team that's 5-0 and playing great. But I think I'm going to stick with that for now. I'm going to stick with the Rams and Chiefs because, look, I have a chapter in the book about the relationship between Reid and Mahomes. And in all the years I covered the NFL, I have never seen a better coach. Those are the two most important employees in any organization. And I've never seen a relationship like that before.
00:40:21
Speaker 4: Listen, man, this is why you're good at the NFL.
00:40:23
Speaker 2: Rams, Chiefs, two of the best teams in the league. Rams were the layup, but the Chiefs didn't quite see 5-0 coming. But the schedule's been fortuitous.
00:40:30
Speaker 4: All right, Peter, thanks a lot. And, you know, good luck with the book.
00:40:33
Speaker 3: We'll talk to you soon. Appreciate it, Jason. Thank you.
Speaker 1: This is Straight Fire with Jason McIntyre. What is up, Straight Fire fam?
00:00:12
Speaker 2: It's me, Jason McIntyre, Straight Fire. For Wednesday, October the 14th. We got a great one today. The one and only Peter King, the man, the myth, the legend. He is going around talking about his book. And I got to give it to Peter King. So he's doing every show under the sun. And I swear every single time he talks to somebody, he's got a new story to unearth. There are some really good ones we recorded on Monday. We did talk a little Chiefs Rams. He thinks that's going to be the Super Bowl. That was his pick. And it looks like it's going to hold up. Man, Peter King, good guy. Still got it.
00:00:49
Speaker 3: Peter King.
00:00:49
Speaker 2: I will say back when I had the website, this was like 2007, eight, nine ish. I'll never forget. I was just, this was like pre social media. I blindly emailed him. I was like, dude, you do great work. He didn't even know who I was. I was like, Hey, I'm a young journalist. Can I just send you some questions on via email and you answer? He's like, yeah, sure. Didn't even know he was talking to any answer. It was great. And, um, you know, he was one of the early guys who was willing to talk to me when he didn't know who I was. I was running a website anonymously and eventually, you know, sports illustrated ended up being the one to, uh, reveal who I was. Um, But yeah, Peter King, super nice guy. And I did run into him in Hawaii four years ago. He was on some, he had some family gathering, I guess. Not quite like a family reunion, but it was a lot of Peter King's family there. And super nice guy in part, right? And probably nobody recognized him. I'm like, holy cow, I think that's Peter King. Yeah, yeah, that's him. Just a nice guy. He's got a great book. And you're going to love these stories. Peter King on Straight Fire.
00:01:55
Speaker 1: Jason likes to think he knows everything when it comes to sports.
00:01:59
Speaker 4: I know what sports fans want.
00:02:01
Speaker 1: But for everything he doesn't, he knows a guy who does.
00:02:04
Speaker 3: Let's just say I know a guy who knows a guy who knows another guy.
00:02:09
Speaker 2: All right, let's welcome back to Straight Fire a special guest, one of the best to ever cover the sport of football ever.
00:02:17
Speaker 3: In America.
00:02:17
Speaker 2: He's worked everywhere. I remember reading him as a kid in Sports Illustrated. Finally got to meet him. And then I ran into him in Hawaii four years ago. Now he's writing books in his retirement. Peter King, welcome back to Straight Fire.
00:02:31
Speaker 4: How are you, my man?
00:02:32
Speaker 3: What retirement? Man, this book, Jason, it's 192,000 words. I don't want to intimidate anybody, but I did the audio book and it took me nine days. Wow.
00:02:44
Speaker 2: And how many hours a day is that reading for the game is the book is called The Game, by the way.
00:02:49
Speaker 3: Yeah, like four and a half. So the book basically is I cut it down from about 220 to 192. And and basically the book is about my loosely about my 40 years covering the NFL. But in essence, it's about in 1984 when I started. The NFL was in a virtual dead heat with Major League Baseball for popularity in the U.S. And in 2025, the year after I got out, the Harris Poll asked Americans their favorite sport, 41% football, 10% baseball. So how did that happen? And I tell you, because I was on the front lines of pretty much everything, you know, covering the NFL for 40 years, the games. the power brokers, everybody. And so I go back and tell one story every year that I covered the game from 1984 to 2023. And I don't just give my greatest hits. I went back and re-reported all of these stories that I tell. You know, why did I, because Jason, you know, you do this for a long time. And even though you have finished a story, OK, and the story is in your rearview mirror. When you think about it, sometimes you say, huh, was it really true that Bill Walsh really kind of went off the deep end and and was was a shell of himself in the last year he coached the 49ers? You'll read in this book, you'll say, wow, Walsh was was really had a tough year that year, even though they won the Super Bowl. Uh, you'll see in, uh, you know, 1993, did Reggie white really want to go to green Bay? I have my doubts and you'll, you'll read, you'll read that. I have a few more than doubts, you know, but, uh, but, uh, and then, you know, when the towers fell in New York on nine 11, I was covering the NFL. Obviously that was a big time in America and in American sports. And I went to interview Paul Tagliabue, the commissioner of the NFL, five days after the towers fell. And I met him in his office. And I always wondered, was it simply emotion or was it something else that led Paul Tagliabue to cry? The cold fish of us, rock solid guy, Paul Tagliabue never showed any emotion. He started crying when I was interviewing him. And I tell you, not to give away everything, but Paul Tagliabue, I believe, was crying because he thought there was going to be a second attack and it could involve a nuclear bomb. Oh, jeez. Yeah. And so I'm not saying that all the chapters are as holy crap as that. Right, right. But what I am saying is, You know, Jason, did you like I wonder strange things sometimes. So like after the Eagles beat the Patriots, after Nick Foles and Doug Peterson beat Tom Brady and Bill Belichick. I mean, you know, that was a stunner. They scored 41 points on Brady throws for 505 yards. One of the best games a quarterback has played in any game, never mind a Super Bowl. And he gets beat by eight points by somebody named Nick Foles. Well, how did Foles do it? And why was it? I remember seeing Foles after that game, totally unaffected, just an absolute flatliner. I said, how did he do it? How do you play the biggest game of your life, the best game of your life in the biggest game of your life? How do you do that? And so I attacked that with Nick Foles for a long time. We had long, long conversation. And Doug Peterson. But basically, I've always wondered, how did Nick Foles do that? And I think I'm going to tell you in this book.
00:07:16
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, that sounds exciting.
00:07:17
Speaker 2: It's weird because I think both those guys were non-factors in the.
00:07:21
Speaker 4: League like three years later.
00:07:23
Speaker 3: Yes. Yeah, Doug Peterson gets whacked and Nick Foles never has another good year.
00:07:29
Speaker 2: Never. NFL's crazy like that. Let me go back to something you said. So NFL was battling baseball back in the 80s for supremacy, and now it's totally dominant. How much of that is, do you think, traced to the internet in the mid-90s and the Cowboys' surge? um, with three straight, uh, championships, because I just feel like the internet changed everything. I was a football fan in the eighties, but it wasn't, it wasn't the best sport. Baseball was huge. I feel like the internet sped things up and baseball became just too.
00:08:00
Speaker 3: Slow for everyone. I think there's much to be said for that, Jason. I think that's a great observation, but just to kind of let people know. So in 1984, uh, The NFL was in the middle of having two player strikes in a five-year span, 82 and 87. They got murdered by Al Davis in a case that the courts allowed Al Davis to move from Oakland to Los Angeles, even though the NFL fought him on that, but he won. So the NFL was in a big slump. And so people won't remember this, but could you believe that in 1984, in prime time ratings on American television. Monday Night Football was the 25th show that year in prime time ratings. Jason, that famous, famous, classic old show that everybody remembers, Scarecrow and Mrs. King beat the NFL that year. And so there's where we were. The NFL basically, I think there were three things. And I'll give you your point about that. But one of the things I write about in the book is that the NFL began to make this consciously a 12-month-a-year business. And they occupied the off-season with tentpole events, okay? The Scouting Combine was never on TV until the early 2000s. Then Paul Tagliabue. said, we're going to have a network. He hired Steve Bornstein, a TV guy, and he put him in charge. And Bornstein said, OK, we're going to put the we're going to put the scouting combine on TV. And everybody thought, oh, my God, who's going to watch the scouting combine? And granted, scouting combine doesn't get great ratings. But you know what it does get? It gets eyeballs from people who kind of miss football into the NFL two weeks, three weeks after the Super Bowl. Two weeks later, there's another tentpole event. Free agency begins. Then all the pre-draft crapola where all of the pro days are being put on television and all of the analysts and, and, you know, all the, all the people who used to only work in the fall. Now they work all through the spring and they're going to the pro days and they're interviewing coaches and players live. And they're putting these huge productions on, on all these campuses. So then that becomes a big deal for like four weeks. And then the draft. And then after that, all the other stuff, the mini camps and that. And there's a little bit of a lull in June and July. Oh, and I forgot one. How insane is it that the schedule, the release of the schedule is a TV show. It formerly was on both NFL Network and ESPN. Now, I don't know what they're going to do now. But so, Jason, I wrote about all this nonsense of shoving stuff down our throat that we don't need. No, that's fine. But we watch it anyway. But there's a term in the NFL office called breadcrumbing. Do you know what that is?
00:11:32
Speaker 2: I mean, I like to leave breadcrumbs for my family to drop my dropping hints. Hey, do your homework on time, you know, small stuff. But I'm sure the NFL is way more.
00:11:40
Speaker 3: Here's what breadcrumbing is. Breadcrumbing is, okay, we're going to have our schedule release show. on Thursday night at 8 o'clock. So Tuesday on the Today Show, Mike Tirico is going to go in studio, and he's going to tell Savannah, Savannah, here's our first game of the year. How great is this going to be? And then later that day on Fox and Friends, Fox is going to tell its big doubleheader game. And then Good Morning America is going to talk about the early– So they do this with about 10 nuggets. They just to get people kind of excited and to get them to be thinking about football on May 9th when nobody is thinking about football. The draft is over. Ha, blessed relief. We don't have to think about it. But now we're thinking, oh, my God, did you see the Patriots schedule? They're going to get killed early on. They're facing six straight playoff teams. It's ridiculous. So they do that. And that now has become an event. So they just decided we're going to own the sports calendar. And that's another thing. That's another big reason. But you're right. The internet has been huge. In 2014, I think. I forget what year. I think it was 2014. 2014. I went to Europe to do a story on the NFL's expansion. They're expanding, playing more games in Europe and all this. Will there ever be a team there? And I went with three players. And I remember it was in April, like the middle of April. And I was in Scotland. No, I was in Liverpool. I was in Liverpool. And we were at a theater in Liverpool. I was with three NFL players. Kirk Cousins was one of them. I was with three NFL players. And they were asking all of us questions. There's like 900 people there. And I at one point asked, what are you guys all doing here? I mean, do you really love the NFL? And your questions are incredible. Some guy was asking me if the Eagles, what I thought of the Eagles in the second round. Okay, I know that they got to get a pass rusher in the first round. Give me your best guess about the second round. I said, I have no clue. How would you know this? And he said, Peter, there's this thing called the internet. And so I think that has helped the NFL in these far-flung markets, quite honestly. But I think those are a few of the reasons why. And plus, Fox comes into the business and Rupert Murdoch builds a network on the back of the NFL. It's funny, I got a story in here that one of the NFL executives, a couple of years into the deal with Fox, like in the late 90s maybe, He said to him, Mr. Murdoch, thanks for being a great partner. It's been great to have you guys with us. He says, partner, I feel more like your financier. And I was thinking to myself, dude, why are you bitter? You sound bitter. Why in the world would you be bitter? You've just had an incredible series of events and television shows and great ratings because you So was it a little bit more than you expected to pay? Pay in the NFL $ 100 million more per year than you wanted to? You've made that up sixfold in the time because you've built a network on the back of the NFL.
00:15:14
Speaker 1: Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at foxsportsradio.com. And within the iHeartRadio app, search FSR to listen live.
00:15:27
Speaker 4: I mean, my still earliest memories are Madden and Summerall.
00:15:31
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:15:31
Speaker 2: And usually NFC East because I was in D.C. But yeah, Fox has done an amazing job now. NBC with Sunday Night Football. I think ESPN has the Super Bowl this year. So it's been really smart on the part of the NFL. I do have to ask you, though. I think the first misstep they're making is this insistence that we've got to play games in Sao Paulo.
00:15:52
Speaker 4: And is there a game in Madrid?
00:15:55
Speaker 3: I fervently. Yeah, there's a game in Madrid. I fervently disagree with you, but give me your point. I'll give you mine.
00:16:00
Speaker 2: Well, I just, listen, I don't think you, sure, one-off tentpole events are going to work in Germany and Dusseldorf and what have you. But this insistence to try to like, hey, maybe we're going to put a team in London.
00:16:11
Speaker 1: That's never going to work, Peter.
00:16:13
Speaker 3: It's not going to work. It's not. I think I was very surprised when Roger Goodell said that. And I don't think it'll ever work. The owners don't want it. And I don't think unless now, now, now, Jason, I'll just say this to you. Let's just say that something like live happens with a couple of franchises in the NFL. And I'll just live golf tour. Yes. So I'm just totally spitballing here, but I'm going to ask you this question. All right. Why did all those golfers go and take Saudi money? Why did they take Saudi money? Because it was ridiculous money. Totally absurd amounts of money, whatever it was. $ 100 million to go play in this silly tour that feels like it's minor league, but you're saying, I'm not turning down $ 100 million. No, hell no. I probably wouldn't either. I don't know. I probably wouldn't take Saudi money. But then again- Principle, I like it. Yeah, but then again, here's the point. What if some entity like the Saudis come along and they say to the NFL, okay, you know, your franchise fee normally, and I'm going to make this up, would be $ 2 billion, okay? We'll give you $ 20 billion. And we'll give, we want two franchises. We'll put one in London, one in Munich, and we'll give you $ 40 billion. I don't, I'm- Right, right.
00:17:47
Speaker 4: You just did, yeah, no, no, I get it.
00:17:49
Speaker 3: Whatever. And so honestly- You basically say, you basically say that essentially that if teams are for sale and they are going to drive up the NFL's, you know, the money the NFL brings in in a given year from $ 27 billion to $ 40 billion, I'm just going to tell you, the owners will say, I think it's a great idea to put a team in London.
00:18:18
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:18:19
Speaker 4: Well, OK, so that does make sense.
00:18:20
Speaker 3: I think it's idiotic myself. I think it's idiotic because here's the thing, Jason. I think you'd have to have a bigger salary cap for that team because what player says, you know, I was playing for the Bears this year, but next three years I'm going to play in Germany. And I mean, now you and I might say, hey, that's cool. That's an adventure. Let's go. I'll live in Europe for three years. That'd be great. I don't think that's the way players think myself.
00:18:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally agree.
00:18:50
Speaker 4: No, they're not going to want to do that.
00:18:51
Speaker 2: But plus, in the NBA, they're starting to talk about, you know, a franchise in Vegas or back to Seattle. And it sounds like Saudi money is probably going to be involved, right?
00:19:01
Speaker 4: Outside investors.
00:19:02
Speaker 3: Because only certain.
00:19:03
Speaker 2: People can own these NFL and NBA teams. But they're keeping them in America. If you want to expand in the NFL world, is there a market that would work that that's starving for an NFL team? I mean, Vegas got one that seems to be thriving pretty much, but.
00:19:17
Speaker 3: In my opinion, if you were talking about Europe, I, I think just my opinion, I think Germany's a better market than England.
00:19:28
Speaker 4: And that's because England has soccer. That's never gonna.
00:19:30
Speaker 3: Well, but Germany has soccer too, but I'm just saying that, that, uh, uh, I went to two games in Germany. Those people are crazy. They would love an NFL team. Now, having said that they love having games there too. So it's not a great idea for a lot of different reasons, at least in my opinion, but let me just talk about the one-off games or having, having a game in Germany every year, having a game in Spain every year and all that stuff. Look, I got in this argument with Chris Russo about it. Chris Russo hates it, you know, the dog. He really, really hates it.
00:20:15
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't hate it.
00:20:16
Speaker 3: You know why he hates it? Because he said it's ridiculous. It's almost like it's a personal affront to him that his NFL Sunday expands to 9.30 in the morning on all these days. And here's my whole point to people who really hate the exporting of NFL games. Okay, so Colts, Commanders. in London at nine 30, like I, I still love football and I, I mean, I'm a Scott Hanson devotee. So I am into the NFL every Sunday, but I didn't watch five minutes of Colts and commanders because if you're going to put a game on at nine 30 in the morning and I'm not covering the league at the time, I have to really want to watch that game. Now, if Tom Brady against Seattle, which is a game play Tampa, Seattle, which was played in 2022 was on at nine 30 in the morning, a hundred percent. I would watch it in the United States. Yes. Yeah. And it was, it was, but, but most of those games, but just think about it. All right. Even that Tampa Seattle game, that game was going to be telecast. All right. It was going to be a one. It was good. It was a Tampa home game. It was going to be telecast in on the West coast of Florida, Tampa, Sarasota-Bradenton, Fort Myers. I don't know up in Gainesville or whatever. I don't know where else. And I'm sure Orlando, okay? And then it was going to be shown where the Seahawks have their games, you know, probably Seattle, Portland, you know, maybe Idaho. I don't know. But anyway, it was going to be shown maybe in 15% of the country, maybe, all right? And so now, It's a national game. It's on at 9.30 in the morning. If you want to watch it, watch it. If you don't, don't. But you weren't going to watch it anyway. Right. If you live in New York, that game was not going to be on your TV. Yeah. And so you weren't going to watch it. So why do you care if it's on at 9.30 in the morning on national TV? So, and it's free for anybody to, well, free if you have. If you have cable. Yeah, yeah. But anyway, I guess what I'm saying is, I don't get exercised about it, but I do think I have been there. And can I say this, Jason? I'm going to tell you the one story that sticks in my head. I got there on, I think, Wednesday during the day into Germany. And so I just hung around, went to the practices, all that. And then on Friday morning, I took a walk. And I went to a place called, in Munich, Odeon's Platz. This square... in the middle of Munich is one of the places that Adolf Hitler spewed his vile, whatever it was, Third Reich stuff almost 90 years ago. And so this is where he was getting everyone in Germany to say Sieg Heil, you know, and he was forming this government and this group that was going to try to take over the world in essence. But, and so what was happening now? There were 32 oversized NFL helmets on the ground with kids, school kids. You'd see all the school buses. They had brought kids there and they were running around the square, taking pictures, laughing, running. There were NFL legends there, greeting kids, talking to kids, preaching the gospel of American football. It was just fun. It was really fun. And so that, look, I just think that whether it ever happens to any more degree than it is now, I don't see a problem with it at all.
00:24:10
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, it's not the end of the world.
00:24:11
Speaker 2: I think what irks me more than the international games, Peter, is this whole, the 1 p.m.
00:24:17
Speaker 4: Window and the 4 p.m.
00:24:18
Speaker 2: Window. I think red zone changed everybody's way of watching football. I'm a red zone guy. On TV2, I'll have my Jets or some other game. But, Peter, this whole like, oh, we only have three games at 4 o'clock today or we only have two because of buys and international, that.
00:24:34
Speaker 4: To me kills the 4 p.m.
00:24:35
Speaker 3: Window. And I know the.
00:24:37
Speaker 2: NFL does that by design so they can say, hey, we had this marquee game on Fox or CBS that.
00:24:42
Speaker 4: Drew 25 million viewers.
00:24:44
Speaker 2: They're obsessed with, it seems like, the winning this rating stuff. But I don't know, Peter, that just annoys me. And I do think they're over-reliant on the ratings because they're tapped out in America.
00:24:54
Speaker 4: We've seen the Super Bowl numbers come down a bit.
00:24:56
Speaker 3: Well, you know what is happening now, Jason? And I have to tell you, one of the chapters in my book is about the rise of women, both in football and around football. It's not the moms. It's people working in football. Big chunk of the chapter on Mina Kimes. Big chunk of the chapter. From ESPN? Oh, yeah. Because, listen, there are more women working on TV and football. The reason I highlighted Mina and the reason why I have so much respect for Mina is that she, and again, no criticism of any other woman who works on TV, and I don't mean this to be critical in any way, but Mina Kimes is on a set with people who are breaking down game tape and Dan Orlovsky, and she is winning arguments with Dan Orlovsky about why things happened in a football game on Sunday. So I have great, great respect for her. I think when you listen to her, you get smarter about football. You know, I was on Ryan Clark's Pivot podcast, and he's got Channing Crowder and Fred Taylor, and I was about to leave, and Fred Taylor comes up and he says, Peter, let me ask you a question. And I had no idea what it was going to be. And I was shocked when he said, what do you think of Mina Kimes? I said, she's good. She's really good. She's smart about football. He goes, yeah, I agree. Every time I watch her, I learn something. I just, you know, so, so anyway, anyway, I'm just, so a chapter, Mina Kimes, Nicole Blake, she's 30 years old. She runs the draft for the Los Angeles Rams. Kevin Demoff, president of the Rams told me she'll be the first female GM in the NFL. It's going to happen. And then as part of that chapter, I went to a girls flag football game in the state of Alabama in a small town. And Jason, you know, Friday night lights is obviously more than a cliche. It's real. Certainly in so many places in this country, everywhere, almost Friday night lights is huge. Well, Big day for this school in this small town in Alabama, Tuesday. So they call it Tuesday night lights. And they have cheerleaders, the band plays. They got fans that, you know, five refs or whatever. I mean, it is a big, big deal. And I said to myself, this is why. And Arthur Blank gave all of these schools in Alabama and Georgia and Montana because he lives in Montana part of the year. He gave them all kind of an endowment to start flag football teams in their school. And so all of these, you know, the NFL basically is investing in getting more women fired up about not just buying pink jerseys. They're getting them fired up about watching and learning and getting really into the sport itself. And, you know, I think That is the next frontier for the NFL. They want women to, they want as many women as they have men.
00:28:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting because I have a daughter and a son and they'll watch football with me and they know what's going on. And my daughter has friends who play flag football. But the Mina Kimes thing is interesting. I don't really know her takes because she has a show on at the same time, I think, as The Herd. So I'm not that familiar, but it sounds like you said, was it Fred Taylor, the running back?
00:28:38
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
00:28:40
Speaker 4: And so he's saying he likes some of her analysis.
00:28:43
Speaker 1: What is it about?
00:28:44
Speaker 2: I don't really, again, I'm not.
00:28:45
Speaker 3: She watches tape. She watches tape. She talks to coaches and she trusts her opinion. You know, you know, Bill Barnwell is, don't you?
00:28:56
Speaker 4: Bill Barnwell, ESPN guy.
00:28:57
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. So Bill Barnwell sort of Mina was getting into the NFL and Barnwell was kind of her sensei. Because she really admired how he broke down games. And so Bill, I think, I'm probably overstating this, kind of took her under his wing and taught her a lot about, hey, here's what you should watch. And you should watch the All-22. And you should read this. You ought to read that. And I just think if you listen to Mina Kimes, you soon realize that this is not somebody who And again, I sound like a jerk and a chauvinist when I say this, but this is not just somebody who hosts a show, okay? Or who works a sideline or who, which I know from being in TV, hosting a show is hard, okay? I'm telling you. And being on the sidelines because- You're working in a very tough environment. That's hard too. But what I'm saying is the mental football understanding part of it so that Mina can stand in the middle of the ring and slug it out with Dan Orlovsky and these guys who used to play football and who study it a lot. She's good at it.
00:30:23
Speaker 1: Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at FoxSportsRadio.com. And within the iHeartRadio app, search FSR to listen live.
00:30:36
Speaker 2: It almost sounds like the NFL has like an interest in promoting women on TV to help.
00:30:42
Speaker 4: Because they got the guys. You know, every guy in Cincinnati, every guy in the Midwest. Football's everything.
00:30:47
Speaker 3: Cheetos, beer.
00:30:47
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:30:48
Speaker 4: And now we need to get in a new group of people's women.
00:30:51
Speaker 3: It's funny. I don't even, I don't know whether the NFL has anything to do with telling, you know, Seth Markman or whoever runs the NFL coverage at ESPN. I don't, I have, I don't have any.
00:31:02
Speaker 4: What about NFL network? Do they have a lot of women on again? I'm not like, why.
00:31:07
Speaker 3: Do they have a lot? They have a lot of women on, but I don't think they have their mean at times. You know, because I just think she is, Uh, I just think she's a unicorn right now. You know, I have to check out her stuff.
00:31:22
Speaker 4: I mean, I, I'm not, so like, it's interesting.
00:31:24
Speaker 2: You say the understanding of football, this is what's fascinating to me. Peter is like, okay, we understand football. You understand it.
00:31:31
Speaker 4: I understand it. But what, like ultimately, where does that get us?
00:31:34
Speaker 2: Like we can watch a game and understand what's happening, but to what end, like, you know, you can watch the financial markets.
00:31:42
Speaker 3: But the question, but the question, Jason, the question is, uh, The question is, and you have to think of it in slightly different terms, I think. The biggest issue about all this is understanding the game itself better and watching shows on Monday and Tuesday and finding out, hey, like, you know, for instance, last weekend, I don't think I know Nick Sirianni fell on the sword and said at the end of that game in London against the Jaguars, I did the wrong thing. I made the wrong call on the kickoff by letting the Jaguars run the ball out. I think Nick Sirianni is full of crap.
00:32:32
Speaker 2: Well, yeah. The probability of that guy running it back 60 yards and going down with one.
00:32:36
Speaker 3: Second left is astronomical. Yeah, yeah. So my whole point is, my whole point is, and I have absolutely no idea what anybody, I'm just telling you what I think. But those are the kind of things you're going to look to smart football analysts to say, why did something weird like that happen in the game? So why did they make this call? And so I think that's where a lot of people. Yeah. Yeah. Smarter analytics. Yeah.
00:33:05
Speaker 2: So my interesting thing. So the gambling to me is the next frontier. And we do a lot of that on this podcast. And I look at it as, OK, I can understand the sport, but what's the next leg? And to me, it's like understanding the schemes and what works well for coaches and what doesn't.
00:33:21
Speaker 4: You know, Bryce Young, he's great.
00:33:23
Speaker 2: Against man or zone but he's horrible the opposite and so to me the understand i'm always like to what end like i like to understand football but i want to try to understand it to help me with fantasy and gambling and stuff i'm just do you think fantasy and gambling are a massive driver of course because again like middle america watches football and they want to understand but i think at the end of the day they want to they want to use it to win right.
00:33:50
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know. I don't gamble.
00:33:52
Speaker 1: What about fantasy?
00:33:52
Speaker 3: Do you? Oh, I play fantasy football. My daughter, who lives in Seattle, runs the family fantasy football league.
00:34:00
Speaker 4: Oh, you got a fantasy game.
00:34:01
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm into it. I try to win. But I think here's the thing. You say to what end. Listen, right now, you know. Let's just say you want the latest information on a Sunday game. you've probably done a lot of scouting around to see, you know, should I bench this guy? Should I play that guy? Whatever. And you might say, okay, I have to find Matthew Barry on Sunday morning, wherever he is, or I have to find, and pardon me, I don't really know all the fantasy business. I just, because it's not that important to me. I want to win, but I don't spend any time you know, looking into what somebody thinks who's going to have a big day, but it is a big deal. And so those shows, you know, on the weekend and on Sunday morning, those shows are big deals. And I would assume make some money for somebody.
00:35:03
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:35:04
Speaker 3: Because I mean, obviously a lot of people are gambling and everyone is looking for that edge and everyone is looking for, Oh my God, can I parlay? You know, can I parlay Amon Ross St. Brown number of catches with Will Reichert's field goals this week? I don't know because I just don't do it. But everybody is looking for what the smart money should be this weekend. Yeah.
00:35:30
Speaker 4: And it's interesting because I honestly, Peter, I know you like these.
00:35:33
Speaker 2: You know, I love Matthew Berry comes on the pod and you mentioned all these other people. I actually think the value is in the at-the-beat reporters who are on the ground.
00:35:42
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
00:35:42
Speaker 2: Like, for instance, the Saints Sunday morning, the Saints reporters who were with the team were like, hey, there's a major.
00:35:47
Speaker 4: Illness coming through.
00:35:48
Speaker 2: This is not great. And instantly for me, oh, my gosh, I got to start Aaron Jones at the running back. I got to bet on the Vikings. And that's a huge edge. So I know those there's a lot of people with value at NFL Network. And but to me, it's the reporters.
00:36:01
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
00:36:02
Speaker 2: They're the ones with the immense value, like the Albert Breer, I feel like has the best mailbag.
00:36:07
Speaker 1: You know, I know he's a good buddy of yours.
00:36:09
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:36:09
Speaker 2: He's got the most value. And even with NBA, Brian Windhorst has he'll he knows more than he lets on, but he can't say it all or it'll start brushfires. So you have to kind of read between the lines. And I just feel like the NFL does a great job allowing these reporters so much access. And you were a reporter back in the day at SI. Reporter turned columnist, right?
00:36:33
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I got hired to write the Inside the NFL column in 1989. And then, you know, as the business changed, I changed with it. I went to, I did halftime on Monday Night Football with Brent Musburger for two years. I did HBO inside the NFL for six years. I worked at NBC for a total of, geez, it's amazing, for a total of 16 years. Jeez. Like 10 of them on TV. And the whole thing is, I understand exactly what you're saying. The media landscape is changing. The business is changing. All that's changing. And you just have to adapt and change with it.
00:37:14
Speaker 2: Yeah. Peter King, the author of The Game, it's out now. Sounds like it's a great holiday reading. NFL has taken over Christmas, too.
00:37:22
Speaker 4: I mean, geez.
00:37:23
Speaker 3: You know what I had to... Jason, you want to hear a funny story? So, like in May, my editor said to me, he said, because I had already filed the book, it was in preparation to be printed, and he goes, hey, we got this offer from Barnes & Noble, and so... We're going to ask you to sign 4,200 title pages of your book. We're going to just send you 4,200 title pages. You're going to sign them, send them back, and we're going to put them in books. And those books will be part of Barnes & Noble's Black Friday sale, you know, at their bookstores around the United States. you'll be able to buy an autographed copy of the game with my real autograph. It's not a plate in the book. It's the actual title page of the book that I signed. So when the book was printed, they just inserted that page in there and there it is. But that's, that is how the business is just so, I knew nothing about the book business. I haven't written a book in decades, honestly, other than a couple of collections of stories, but. So I have been really interested. I'm totally into how the book business works, but that's part of it. Then I read the audio book, which took me nine days. But that whole part of it, the business side of this has been fascinating because I'm curious and I still am curious. And that was one of the things that really helped me in this book. What are the stories that I'm curious about that I want to go back and find out there's some incredible stuff about Peyton Manning at the Scouting Combine, and how he tried to differentiate himself from Ryan Leaf. And it's just so, looking back at it, for those of us who remember those times, is just, the stories are just too much. But anyway, yeah.
00:39:29
Speaker 4: We could wrap up, Peter.
00:39:30
Speaker 2: Who's winning the Super Bowl this year?
00:39:32
Speaker 4: Five weeks in, got five weeks.
00:39:35
Speaker 3: Worth of data. You know what I picked at the start of the year? At the start of the year, I picked the Rams and the Chiefs.
00:39:41
Speaker 4: Okay.
00:39:42
Speaker 3: It sounds like a good prediction so far. I mean, I.
00:39:48
Speaker 3: I really like the Niners obviously now, but everybody's going to like the team that's 5-0 and playing great. But I think I'm going to stick with that for now. I'm going to stick with the Rams and Chiefs because, look, I have a chapter in the book about the relationship between Reid and Mahomes. And in all the years I covered the NFL, I have never seen a better coach. Those are the two most important employees in any organization. And I've never seen a relationship like that before.
00:40:21
Speaker 4: Listen, man, this is why you're good at the NFL.
00:40:23
Speaker 2: Rams, Chiefs, two of the best teams in the league. Rams were the layup, but the Chiefs didn't quite see 5-0 coming. But the schedule's been fortuitous.
00:40:30
Speaker 4: All right, Peter, thanks a lot. And, you know, good luck with the book.
00:40:33
Speaker 3: We'll talk to you soon. Appreciate it, Jason. Thank you.
