Smarticle - Smarticle Scams - Pig Butchering Part Two - The Butchered

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Welcome back to the Smarticle Podcast and the series Smarticle Scams
That we are doing.
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Trying to uncover or point out or make you
aware of common scams that are out there.
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Last week we talked with Aaron West,
who is the head of Operation Shamrock,
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and Aaron explained to us this new scam,
new-ish scam called Pig butchering.
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Now, you may have never heard of Pig
butchering, but if you were paying
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attention to the news a couple
weeks ago, you may have seen how
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a CEO of a small Kansas bank in a
small Kansas town called Elkhart, a
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2000 people Ag town, was sentenced
to 24 and a half years in prison.
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Shane Haines, spelled SHAN, Shane
Haines is the CEO of this small
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Kansas bank, and he embezzled $47
million from this bank and effectively
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closed the bank, shuttered it.
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He embezzled money from a
church, he embezzled money from
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his daughter's college account.
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And it's easy to look at Shane
Hams to say, man, this guy is
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just a dirty, no good criminal.
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But I know people from.
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And I have a feeling that Shane Haynes
probably wasn't that bad of a guy.
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But what happened to Shane Haynes is he
was caught up into a pig butchering scam.
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I'm in no way.
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I am in no way excusing
Mr. Haynes of a crime.
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It's costing the American taxpayer
$47 million to fix this, right?
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The FDIC took over Heartland
Tri-State and had to pay back all the
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depositors the money that was lost.
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So that means that you and I,
Haines is not innocent by any means.
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In fact, he was given a stiffer crime
than the prosecutor even asked for.
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But I find it very curious that when you
read all the news articles about it, it
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refers to pig butchering in there, but
it basically does it in an offhand way.
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Oh, it's a scam that happened.
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Pig butchering is a big deal, and it is
happening to people that are very smart.
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I don't think that most people that get
scammed by pig butchering scams are dumb.
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They're taken advantage of
by a very sophisticated scam
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that originates in China.
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That is now set up shop in
Cambodia and Myanmar, and no one's
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talking about that part of it.
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No one's saying that.
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Wait a second.
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Where are the, when you read the
articles about this crime that Mr.
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Haynes committed, all of them say
they don't know where the money went.
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They don't know who the criminals were.
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Guess what?
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They can trace the money.
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They do know someone
knows who took this money.
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I was having a conversation last
week with a very close friend.
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He had listened to the Aaron West
episode and he's like, I really liked
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it, but I didn't send it on to any
friends because I felt like there's
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no way they would get scammed by
this, that it's just not gonna happen.
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It's happening.
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It's happening to the tune
of billions of dollars.
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Please let your friends know about this.
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This is, I think that
there's a part of this.
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The reason why we're not talking
about it is it falls right into the
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wheelhouse of American exceptionalism.
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We think we're great.
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We think that we're smart.
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We think we're smarter
than everybody else.
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We think that if somebody gets caught,
it's their fault they should go to jail.
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Fair enough?
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But the problem is that it's having
a massive impact on everyday people.
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In today's episode, we're gonna hear from
two of the people that were pig butchered.
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Two men that fell for these romantic
scams and lost lots of money.
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They lost lots of money to what
would be an average American and the
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tens of thousands of dollars that
they're probably never gonna get back.
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It's easy for us to sit back and
say, oh, that wouldn't happen to me.
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But it is happening to you.
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It's happening to people all around you.
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And at the very least, we as taxpayers are
now paying for this pig butchering scam.
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We have to wake up to this folks.
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It is there.
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It is in front of us everywhere.
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Today we're gonna be talking to
Troy Gau and PJ Jenkins, two men who
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fell for this pig butchering scam.
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Now, no matter what you think
about them, I assure you neither
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one of these guys is dumb.
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You might say, wow, that
would never happen to me.
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But again, I want you to listen to how
the scam worked, because what happened
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to these guys was exactly identical
to what happened to Shane Haynes.
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If you read the news articles about
Shane Haynes, the exact same methods were
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used on Shane Haynes, the CEO of a bank.
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Arguably a very educated man to scam him
out of millions and millions of dollars.
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It's based on romance and greed.
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So I hope that today when you listen to
this, at the end you say, you know what?
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I am gonna pass this on to other
people because people do need to know.
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We do need to have accountability
for these crimes, for these crimes.
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If people embezzle from a
bank, they should go to prison.
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But we also need to be holding these
criminals in Asia accountable for
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these schemes 'cause they are bad
and they're coming for all of us.
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That said, we'll now hear from Troy au.
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So with me today is Troy au who, who
I discovered, as I've mentioned on the
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show, as I do these, this series of
shows, I discovered Troy through a Los
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Angeles Times article that was written,
I think last year, and it was about pig
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butchering, which I'd never heard of.
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I didn't know anything about this.
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I read it and I was completely fascinated.
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So I tracked, I stalked Troy, I stalked
him on the internet and found him.
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And he has graciously agreed to come on
and talk about his experience with this.
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We've talked a little bit already on
the show about pig butchering, and
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Aaron West has given us some background
information, but I wanted to talk with
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Troy about his ex personal experience
with this, because it's fascinating.
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I will link the article, so if
people wanna read it as well.
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But before we get into it, Troy, do
me a favor, just introduce yourself,
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tell us a little bit about yourself.
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Sure.
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Um, first off, Brandon,
thanks for having me on.
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I, yeah, my story can be embarrassing.
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I get it if your listeners think
that I shouldn't have fallen for it.
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I get all that, but it happened,
and so I just wanna tell people what
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happened so that maybe somebody out
there won't fall for the same thing.
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I live in Ohio, but before then I was
living in New York City at the time.
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I wanted to be in showbiz.
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In 2020, of course, everything shut down
and so I moved back to my home state
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of Ohio where I'm, where I now live.
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Okay.
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Now living 13 years in New York and
then going back to Ohio, basically
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starting my life over, I was looking
to, I guess looking for love, and I
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hate doing online dating, but I said,
I'll just sign up for Facebook dating.
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It's free.
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What could possibly go wrong?
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So I'm to find a job here.
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I did find a job and at one point back
in the late summer, early fall of 2021, I
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get contacted on Facebook dating by this
woman that's looks like an attractive
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Asian woman based on the picture.
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Mm-hmm.
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And supposedly they were living
in Seattle according to their
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Facebook page, but they messaged me.
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Now, I thought it was odd that my
page being in Ohio would show up
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for some to somebody in Seattle.
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And in fact, when they messaged me mm-hmm.
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They actually asked me if
Seattle was far from Ohio.
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Hmm.
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Now wait, before you go on to that
point, because I could just hear the
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audience saying, red flag, red flag.
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At that point, why wouldn't
you pull the eject button?
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Well, because number one pig
butchering had not been heard of yet.
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This scam was totally new to the west
in about 2021, about the time I was
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scam, it started in Southeast Asia.
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They went after mainly
Chinese, but you know.
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Mm-hmm.
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It is branched out since then.
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But in 2021, the West
had never heard of it.
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So that includes the media.
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Okay.
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That includes law enforcement.
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Nobody had ever heard of this scam yet,
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so I had no reason to, I had no
real, to no reason, real reason
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to think that this was a scam.
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Mm-hmm.
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We start a conversation.
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Simple enough.
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This person was not asking me for money.
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They weren't trying to tell me that they
were stuck in, they were having surgery
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in a hospital and they needed me to pay
for surgery or that they were away in
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the military and needed a ride home.
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It was nothing like that.
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It was a simple conversation,
something that you would have with
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the, with a friend or with anybody new.
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They'd ask How old I
was I married or single?
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Was I living at home?
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What kind of job do I have?
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Those types of things.
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And that's very much how the
scam approaches everybody.
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At this point, I'm just chatting with
this supposed attractive Asian female.
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Mm-hmm.
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Um, of course they have picture.
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I send them one.
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Oh, they think I'm cute.
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They send a picture.
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They're cute.
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So I had no reason in the beginning
to think that this was a scam.
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Two weeks.
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It was really just a constant
texting back and forth.
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They would say, good morning, they
would ask me, have I eaten breakfast?
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Have I eaten lunch as my, as I go
through my day, how's my day going?
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They would show me pictures about
their supposed day and pictures
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of the meal that they ate.
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They would talk about meetings
and this woman was supposedly
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successful, owned several clothing
stores back in, uh, Ukraine.
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I think she is what she told me.
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And, and so for two, three weeks
it was just a general chat about
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what's going on in the world.
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Right.
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So they seemed knowledgeable
about current events.
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There's a reason why that is and
if I get a chance, I'll explain it.
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Why don't you explain it right now?
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I'm curious, what does that
have to do with the hook?
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'cause they study their target.
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Oh, okay.
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I follow these people on Telegram.
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I've got countless numbers
of their documents.
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I know where their documents are.
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I know I, I have chatted with people who
are trapped in scam compounds, so I know
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what they're, I know what they're doing.
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I know what they're up to.
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They, this particular person that
I'm, that I've been chatting with
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is a Chinese national trapped in a
park in Myanmar, and he told me that
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they have to take tests on America.
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His target is California.
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They have to take tests on America.
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So they learned, he told me he learned
about Columbus discovering the New World,
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the War of 1812, the Revolutionary War
stuff that probably a lot of Americans
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could not know, would not know about,
and they're taking tests on it.
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Wow.
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Okay, so this is really Sophist case.
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So you're in this conversation with
this, presumably this attractive
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woman, and it's just normal
like getting to know you stuff.
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Then what happens?
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So about two to three weeks in, she
started telling me that she owned the
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clothing stores, like I mentioned, but
she wasn't really running those anymore.
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She was doing something called liquidity
mining, and she was mining Ethereum
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by using with the USDT in her crypto
wallet, in her Coinbase wallet.
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She tried to tie this to Coinbase.
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Now, at the time, I didn't know
really anything about crypto at all.
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I had heard a Bitcoin, but the rest of
it, yeah, I didn't know anything about
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and I had no desire to get into it.
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Nobody knew at that time in
2021, crypto is pretty new.
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Yes.
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When she first mentioned it, I
thought, oh, that's interesting.
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That's great.
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I have no interest in
it, but that's great.
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I'm glad it's working for you.
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And so she left it, but then
she would come back to it.
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And then she would start to tell me how
it was so easy to make so much money.
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She was making $200 a day.
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What she was is what she was supposedly
making and that I could do the same thing.
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And because Coinbase was so safe and so
secure and an American company, there was
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no way that my funds were gonna get taken.
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They were gonna be safe
in my crypto wallet.
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After a while, I had no reason
to doubt this woman at this
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point seemed legitimate.
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Oh, I do wanna back up just a second.
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So of course I asked if we could
do a video call and Oh, okay.
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They said, she said she couldn't because
she was doing a video chat with a friend
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00:12:59,430 --> 00:13:04,170
of hers one day and the friend was driving
a car and got into an accident and died.
233
00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:07,170
And because of that, she
was scared of cameras.
234
00:13:07,860 --> 00:13:13,350
Now I know that is ridiculous and I have
actually found that in their documents,
235
00:13:13,620 --> 00:13:14,490
they're trained to say this stuff.
236
00:13:15,030 --> 00:13:15,270
Yes.
237
00:13:15,275 --> 00:13:15,365
Really.
238
00:13:17,505 --> 00:13:20,714
Now they have models who
make video calls with guys.
239
00:13:21,584 --> 00:13:25,995
I have that information as well, so
she can't make a video call with me
240
00:13:25,995 --> 00:13:29,234
because of that, which I do think is
odd, but I keep chatting with her.
241
00:13:29,745 --> 00:13:32,564
But now getting back to Coinbase,
Coinbase wallet is very safe.
242
00:13:32,564 --> 00:13:33,704
It's very secure.
243
00:13:33,795 --> 00:13:36,074
As long as I don't turn
over my seed phrase.
244
00:13:36,104 --> 00:13:39,135
Now your seed phrase is
a series of random words.
245
00:13:39,135 --> 00:13:40,905
It could be 12, it could be 24.
246
00:13:41,145 --> 00:13:43,365
That is like your passcode to your wallet.
247
00:13:43,694 --> 00:13:44,834
That's what protects it.
248
00:13:45,015 --> 00:13:45,104
Mm-hmm.
249
00:13:45,405 --> 00:13:49,305
If, if folks have access to
your seed phrase, then they
250
00:13:49,305 --> 00:13:50,324
have access to your wallet.
251
00:13:50,594 --> 00:13:54,615
But if they don't have access to your seed
phrase, they can't get into your wallet.
252
00:13:56,474 --> 00:13:56,714
Okay.
253
00:13:56,714 --> 00:14:01,334
Until this scam, eventually, I'll just
get to the point where I was eventually,
254
00:14:01,334 --> 00:14:06,104
I was convinced we're having this
great, this kind of romantic online
255
00:14:06,104 --> 00:14:11,415
relationship, and I'm believing now that
Coinbase is safe and she has told me
256
00:14:11,415 --> 00:14:13,454
all about it and has shown me pictures.
257
00:14:14,220 --> 00:14:17,550
Did you do any research on Coinbase
outside of these conversations at all?
258
00:14:17,550 --> 00:14:20,850
I did not because I knew Coinbase
was a, was a public American company.
259
00:14:20,850 --> 00:14:20,910
Okay.
260
00:14:21,569 --> 00:14:23,310
But you knew about what Coinbase was.
261
00:14:23,310 --> 00:14:24,329
It's a legitimate company.
262
00:14:24,334 --> 00:14:24,535
Yes.
263
00:14:24,750 --> 00:14:30,900
So she showed me how to download Coinbase,
how to download a Coinbase wallet, and
264
00:14:30,900 --> 00:14:32,370
then how to set this whole thing up.
265
00:14:33,089 --> 00:14:36,959
Now the way this worked, it's a little bit
different than some other pig butchering
266
00:14:36,959 --> 00:14:38,459
scams, but it's the same people.
267
00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:43,319
The way this worked, I had to
connect my wallet to their website.
268
00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:44,189
Okay.
269
00:14:44,790 --> 00:14:49,980
And I had to download, I
had to buy USDT Tether one.
270
00:14:50,010 --> 00:14:51,060
It's a stable coin.
271
00:14:51,060 --> 00:14:53,040
One tether equals one US dollar.
272
00:14:54,689 --> 00:14:55,050
Okay.
273
00:14:56,400 --> 00:15:00,060
So just a brief interruption
on what Troy was talking about.
274
00:15:00,420 --> 00:15:02,520
He referred to USDT.
275
00:15:02,970 --> 00:15:05,819
It doesn't go into detail on it,
and I didn't catch it at the time,
276
00:15:05,819 --> 00:15:09,030
but I wanted to give you guys a
brief introduction to what that is.
277
00:15:09,030 --> 00:15:11,220
We're gonna do a whole show
on blockchain and encrypt.
278
00:15:11,865 --> 00:15:13,515
And why people use it.
279
00:15:13,785 --> 00:15:20,354
But basically Tether or U-S-D-T-U-S-D-T is
just a symbol for tether, a cryptocurrency
280
00:15:20,354 --> 00:15:22,334
that is pegged to the US dollar.
281
00:15:22,604 --> 00:15:24,224
That means it's connected
to the US dollar.
282
00:15:24,224 --> 00:15:25,995
So it fluctuates with the dollar.
283
00:15:25,995 --> 00:15:27,765
When the dollar goes up, it goes up.
284
00:15:27,765 --> 00:15:29,265
When the dollar goes down, it goes down.
285
00:15:29,265 --> 00:15:31,755
That's all he means by USDT.
286
00:15:32,145 --> 00:15:34,005
So I wanted to make sure
you were aware of that.
287
00:15:34,005 --> 00:15:37,604
As we talked about crypto, it gets a
little bit complicated and as I said,
288
00:15:37,604 --> 00:15:41,055
we'll do a whole show on that, but
hopefully that sort of clears it up a
289
00:15:41,055 --> 00:15:45,464
little bit and you'll have a better sense
of what it is that he's talking about.
290
00:15:45,464 --> 00:15:46,995
I had to buy that from Coinbase.
291
00:15:47,415 --> 00:15:49,964
I could have bought it from anywhere,
but I bought it from Coinbase 'cause
292
00:15:49,964 --> 00:15:51,435
that's who they were supposedly.
293
00:15:52,094 --> 00:15:55,454
And then I transferred
that tether into my wallet.
294
00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:56,849
Okay.
295
00:15:56,895 --> 00:16:03,344
Now on the website to start the, the
mining, you're supposedly mining Ethereum.
296
00:16:03,344 --> 00:16:07,094
To start the mining you have to get
what's called a voucher on the website.
297
00:16:07,245 --> 00:16:09,224
And to do that, that cost Ethereum.
298
00:16:09,780 --> 00:16:11,640
Ethereum is another cryptocurrency.
299
00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:13,440
So it cost a little
bit of Ethereum, right?
300
00:16:13,500 --> 00:16:17,160
My scammer sent it to me again,
I don't know it's a scam yet,
301
00:16:17,190 --> 00:16:18,690
but they actually sent me money.
302
00:16:18,930 --> 00:16:18,960
Okay?
303
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:22,380
I have money that's safe in my
wallet supposedly, and they are
304
00:16:22,380 --> 00:16:24,420
going to send me money, and they did.
305
00:16:25,710 --> 00:16:28,440
So they send me a little bit of Ethereum,
they transferred it to my wallet
306
00:16:29,340 --> 00:16:32,700
and I used that to get the voucher.
307
00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:35,940
Where now I'm supposedly mining Ethereum.
308
00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:39,360
Now the way it works is that every
six hours you could go to the
309
00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:41,310
website and you'll see your account.
310
00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:42,960
Your account go up a little bit.
311
00:16:43,350 --> 00:16:45,600
There's supposedly a little
bit of Ethereum there.
312
00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:50,490
You could then click a button,
swap it for USDT, and then transfer
313
00:16:50,490 --> 00:16:51,840
that money into your wallet.
314
00:16:52,950 --> 00:16:55,410
Now what I found out later on is
that those numbers are all fake,
315
00:16:55,650 --> 00:16:56,760
but I didn't know it at the time.
316
00:16:57,900 --> 00:17:00,690
So lemme stop you real quick 'cause I've,
I'm trying to follow the train of thought.
317
00:17:00,990 --> 00:17:04,020
So you think you're at Coinbase,
but you're not actually in Coinbase.
318
00:17:04,020 --> 00:17:04,590
Exactly.
319
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:09,540
They sent you the link to Coinbase,
but you could have gone outside
320
00:17:09,540 --> 00:17:10,800
and found Coinbase somewhere else.
321
00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:10,890
Right?
322
00:17:10,890 --> 00:17:13,470
Actually, they sent me a link
to a wa uh, a different website.
323
00:17:13,470 --> 00:17:13,890
Totally.
324
00:17:14,700 --> 00:17:15,570
No, correct.
325
00:17:15,690 --> 00:17:15,960
Correct.
326
00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:19,260
But you thought they were sending you, but
what I'm saying is if somebody's listening
327
00:17:19,260 --> 00:17:22,320
to this, they're saying, why didn't you
just sign up for Coinbase on your own?
328
00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:24,510
Outside of who the,
whoever this person was.
329
00:17:24,510 --> 00:17:28,405
Like, why didn't you go get your own
Coinbase and then work with them?
330
00:17:28,605 --> 00:17:30,450
'cause they were not dealing in Coinbase.
331
00:17:31,140 --> 00:17:36,090
The website that they sent me to do mining
was absolutely was not Coinbase at all.
332
00:17:36,090 --> 00:17:37,380
It didn't look like Coinbase.
333
00:17:37,410 --> 00:17:38,700
It was their own website.
334
00:17:38,700 --> 00:17:40,320
In fact, I have it on
the way back machine.
335
00:17:41,430 --> 00:17:45,240
It was in no way connected
with Coinbase other than there
336
00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:46,500
was a little chat feature.
337
00:17:46,500 --> 00:17:49,140
You could chat with customer
service, and they had the little
338
00:17:49,140 --> 00:17:50,850
Coinbase emblem there on the corner.
339
00:17:52,350 --> 00:17:52,680
Okay.
340
00:17:52,860 --> 00:17:54,810
But you'd never seen
Coinbase at this point.
341
00:17:54,810 --> 00:17:57,810
So you didn't know any different,
you thought you were talking
342
00:17:57,810 --> 00:17:58,890
to Coinbase, but you weren't.
343
00:17:58,890 --> 00:17:59,790
You were talking to the skin.
344
00:17:59,790 --> 00:18:00,360
Yeah, exactly.
345
00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:00,900
Okay.
346
00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:04,440
What I'm asking is, did you even
think to yourself at any point.
347
00:18:05,025 --> 00:18:08,025
Hey, I should go look and see
if this is actually Coinbase,
348
00:18:08,025 --> 00:18:09,315
or were you just, it's so new.
349
00:18:09,315 --> 00:18:10,875
I'm in, I'm just doing what I'm doing.
350
00:18:11,085 --> 00:18:13,425
You just assumed that
it was Coinbase by then.
351
00:18:14,535 --> 00:18:17,895
I was suckered into it
via the romance thing.
352
00:18:17,955 --> 00:18:19,665
Okay, got it.
353
00:18:19,845 --> 00:18:21,675
Have there been romantic
talk at this point?
354
00:18:21,675 --> 00:18:22,395
Oh yes, absolutely.
355
00:18:22,395 --> 00:18:26,715
'cause we've had, by now we have been
talking about three weeks every day.
356
00:18:26,730 --> 00:18:27,020
Okay.
357
00:18:27,945 --> 00:18:32,235
And so this is the, and it's
a long con nowadays it's not,
358
00:18:32,235 --> 00:18:37,185
nowadays they're moving to the scam
within 2, 3, 4 days, five post.
359
00:18:37,335 --> 00:18:42,795
Really, back then they didn't, so I
started this, I started the scam, which I
360
00:18:42,795 --> 00:18:44,295
didn't think, didn't know was a scam yet.
361
00:18:44,385 --> 00:18:44,475
Right.
362
00:18:44,895 --> 00:18:48,105
And for the first three or four
days, my account was growing.
363
00:18:49,215 --> 00:18:50,685
So here we are again.
364
00:18:50,745 --> 00:18:55,155
I have no idea that this is a scam,
but I wake up one morning every six
365
00:18:55,155 --> 00:18:57,945
hours I could check my account and
sure enough, there's more money in it.
366
00:18:57,945 --> 00:19:03,645
Uhhuh look, one morning about
three or four days later.
367
00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:06,870
I realized that my account is zero.
368
00:19:07,500 --> 00:19:12,210
And there's some words in front,
like I'm, what are these words here?
369
00:19:12,210 --> 00:19:12,390
What?
370
00:19:12,390 --> 00:19:12,960
What is this?
371
00:19:13,620 --> 00:19:20,190
It is supposedly a contract
that says that my money has
372
00:19:20,190 --> 00:19:22,380
been secured in the mining pool.
373
00:19:22,980 --> 00:19:23,940
But let me back up.
374
00:19:23,940 --> 00:19:27,450
I, by this time, I had put
$5,000 in, just look, $5,000.
375
00:19:27,930 --> 00:19:27,960
Okay.
376
00:19:28,380 --> 00:19:30,990
But I needed to have $10,000 in there.
377
00:19:31,350 --> 00:19:33,600
And so I needed to put
$5,000 in my account.
378
00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:34,590
I didn't know what this was.
379
00:19:34,590 --> 00:19:36,600
So I messaged two people.
380
00:19:36,780 --> 00:19:39,600
One was the customer service, 'cause
there was a customer service chat.
381
00:19:40,140 --> 00:19:42,540
And they said, oh, yep,
you need $5,000 more.
382
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:43,140
Okay?
383
00:19:43,530 --> 00:19:49,290
And I also messaged my scammer and
they said, oh, how lucky I was that
384
00:19:49,290 --> 00:19:51,090
I am gonna make all this money back.
385
00:19:51,090 --> 00:19:53,820
I'm gonna get all my money back and
I'm gonna get all kinds of bonuses.
386
00:19:54,300 --> 00:19:55,410
It's gonna be a lot of money there.
387
00:19:55,410 --> 00:19:56,280
You're so lucky.
388
00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:57,150
I got that too.
389
00:19:57,270 --> 00:19:57,810
It's rare.
390
00:19:57,810 --> 00:19:59,640
Doesn't happen very
often according to them.
391
00:20:00,044 --> 00:20:03,165
So I said, okay, I don't
have additional $5,000.
392
00:20:03,435 --> 00:20:06,375
Like really, I just broke
actors starting his life over.
393
00:20:07,425 --> 00:20:11,205
So I went and got a loan for
$5,000 and I put that in.
394
00:20:11,264 --> 00:20:13,064
I bought USDT, put that in the wallet.
395
00:20:14,264 --> 00:20:18,945
That money was taken out, and
then I was told that no, I
396
00:20:18,945 --> 00:20:20,564
actually needed another 5,000.
397
00:20:21,405 --> 00:20:22,810
I didn't need a total of 10,000.
398
00:20:22,810 --> 00:20:23,895
I need $10,000 more.
399
00:20:23,895 --> 00:20:28,514
So I need another 5,000 after
messaging customer service again.
400
00:20:28,514 --> 00:20:29,774
Yeah, we don't want your money.
401
00:20:29,925 --> 00:20:33,135
You just gotta fulfill this contract
and you need to do it by whatever
402
00:20:33,135 --> 00:20:36,225
the date was, a couple of days, and
or you're gonna lose all your money.
403
00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:40,544
So you put in 5,000, then you put
it in another five, and now they're
404
00:20:40,544 --> 00:20:41,820
saying you gotta put in 5,000 more.
405
00:20:41,820 --> 00:20:47,084
No, after I put in a second 5,000,
they took that out and now they told
406
00:20:47,084 --> 00:20:52,334
me the contract has been fulfilled, but
Coinbase says I need to have $10,000 in
407
00:20:52,334 --> 00:20:54,014
my wallet to get all this money back.
408
00:20:55,189 --> 00:20:56,895
At this point, you must
be scratching your head.
409
00:20:57,435 --> 00:20:58,574
I was getting upset.
410
00:20:59,685 --> 00:21:03,435
But I mean, I guess you could use any
number of reasons why I put that money in.
411
00:21:03,465 --> 00:21:07,365
I have no idea, but I didn't
realize yet that this is a scam.
412
00:21:08,475 --> 00:21:11,595
You think you're just gonna make a bunch
of money out of this and that somebody
413
00:21:11,595 --> 00:21:15,435
you trusted is sending you and you're
like, it's like any get rich quick scheme.
414
00:21:15,465 --> 00:21:18,375
They prey on the fact that you're
thinking you're gonna make a lot of money.
415
00:21:18,375 --> 00:21:19,514
Yes, that is exactly right.
416
00:21:20,264 --> 00:21:22,215
So I took out another loan.
417
00:21:22,274 --> 00:21:23,475
I had 2000, I put that in.
418
00:21:23,475 --> 00:21:26,955
I took out another loan for
$8,000, so now I'm $18,000 in debt.
419
00:21:27,795 --> 00:21:29,625
And I put that money into the account.
420
00:21:29,625 --> 00:21:33,435
I messaged customer service or into
my, I bought, sorry, bought Tether
421
00:21:33,465 --> 00:21:34,905
and put that money into my wallet.
422
00:21:35,295 --> 00:21:36,585
I messaged customer service.
423
00:21:36,585 --> 00:21:38,685
I said, Hey, the $10,000 is in there.
424
00:21:38,895 --> 00:21:40,335
And they said, wait, just one moment.
425
00:21:41,264 --> 00:21:43,875
And then after that, that
money was taken out, my wallet
426
00:21:43,875 --> 00:21:46,514
was zero again, now I'm mad.
427
00:21:46,905 --> 00:21:49,215
And I started messaging
asking, Hey, where's my money?
428
00:21:49,305 --> 00:21:50,115
What happened to it?
429
00:21:50,205 --> 00:21:51,014
What did you do?
430
00:21:51,750 --> 00:21:53,190
The money is safe in your account.
431
00:21:53,250 --> 00:21:54,360
It's safe in the mining pool.
432
00:21:54,510 --> 00:21:55,710
Then they come back with a message.
433
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:59,850
You are supposed to get 200,000
USDT, but to do that you need to
434
00:21:59,850 --> 00:22:02,490
pay the taxes on it of $35,000.
435
00:22:03,180 --> 00:22:06,120
It was at that point that
I realized I was scammed.
436
00:22:07,050 --> 00:22:08,040
I did not pay the tax.
437
00:22:09,510 --> 00:22:11,460
Of course, but they wanted you to.
438
00:22:11,460 --> 00:22:13,080
That was the hope was that
you were gonna keep going.
439
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:13,410
Absolutely.
440
00:22:13,410 --> 00:22:13,650
Right.
441
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:14,940
That's how this scam works.
442
00:22:14,970 --> 00:22:15,210
Okay.
443
00:22:16,620 --> 00:22:17,790
Where's the romantic interest?
444
00:22:17,790 --> 00:22:17,850
No.
445
00:22:17,850 --> 00:22:20,910
They were always telling, that person
was always telling me that my money
446
00:22:20,910 --> 00:22:24,630
was safe in the mining pool and
that we're gonna make lots of money.
447
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:28,140
That it's okay, I just needed to pay
the tax and maybe she could help me.
448
00:22:28,140 --> 00:22:32,490
She could even maybe gimme $5,000
to help me out and we could do that.
449
00:22:32,610 --> 00:22:34,620
We can make all this money
and we could be together.
450
00:22:35,790 --> 00:22:35,910
Oh, okay.
451
00:22:36,690 --> 00:22:40,860
So it played on my heartstrings,
being a single guy and lonely.
452
00:22:40,860 --> 00:22:43,050
It played on my desire for more money.
453
00:22:43,260 --> 00:22:44,310
Isn't that what we all want?
454
00:22:45,300 --> 00:22:47,071
What else do they need to
be played on at that point?
455
00:22:47,076 --> 00:22:48,000
Isn't that what we all want?
456
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:49,830
We want love and we want more money.
457
00:22:51,090 --> 00:22:52,620
So they, and they know what they're doing.
458
00:22:52,620 --> 00:22:54,600
So you realize you're getting scammed.
459
00:22:55,140 --> 00:22:59,100
At what point do you realize that the
Paramore, that the romantic interest
460
00:22:59,100 --> 00:23:01,890
is not actually who they say they are?
461
00:23:01,890 --> 00:23:06,420
At that moment, I was sitting on my
couch in the living room, and when
462
00:23:06,420 --> 00:23:08,970
they told, when I got this message
that I had to put this money in,
463
00:23:09,450 --> 00:23:12,510
and I just went, I was just scammed.
464
00:23:14,670 --> 00:23:15,870
I was dumbfounded.
465
00:23:15,870 --> 00:23:17,310
I was angry.
466
00:23:17,310 --> 00:23:20,970
I just could not, I was like, anybody who
says, you're an idiot for falling for it.
467
00:23:20,970 --> 00:23:21,780
Yes I am.
468
00:23:21,780 --> 00:23:23,160
I am an idiot for falling for it.
469
00:23:23,190 --> 00:23:23,700
I know.
470
00:23:25,110 --> 00:23:26,700
And so I went through all those feelings.
471
00:23:26,730 --> 00:23:30,300
I went through the feelings
of wanting to kill myself.
472
00:23:30,570 --> 00:23:33,720
I'm starting my life over, oh my
gosh, now I'm $18,000 in debt,
473
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:34,980
and I just fell for a scam.
474
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:36,780
What a moral, right?
475
00:23:37,860 --> 00:23:38,190
Yeah.
476
00:23:38,340 --> 00:23:41,910
That's SI mean, as bad as it is
for me, it's worse for many others.
477
00:23:42,750 --> 00:23:43,710
But I understand.
478
00:23:44,790 --> 00:23:45,840
I didn't know where to turn for help.
479
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:47,610
I called my local police department.
480
00:23:47,670 --> 00:23:49,290
Of course they were.
481
00:23:49,950 --> 00:23:52,020
Clueless on any of it, right?
482
00:23:52,050 --> 00:23:54,360
Cryptocurrencies in
general, let alone the scam.
483
00:23:56,190 --> 00:23:56,400
Right?
484
00:23:56,430 --> 00:24:00,990
I started messaging people, I
started messaging Coinbase and got
485
00:24:00,990 --> 00:24:04,770
back a message from them that my
seed phrase, we'll talk about, that
486
00:24:04,770 --> 00:24:06,120
seed phrase had been compromised.
487
00:24:06,570 --> 00:24:08,100
That's not how the scam works.
488
00:24:08,670 --> 00:24:12,690
What happened was when I got that
voucher that I told you about earlier,
489
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,780
that was actually a token approval.
490
00:24:17,130 --> 00:24:22,200
Ethereum can work on a smart contract and
what a smart contract is, in this case,
491
00:24:22,350 --> 00:24:24,360
it's like a subscription to a magazine.
492
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:29,010
So if you have a subscription to
something, a streaming service, you
493
00:24:29,010 --> 00:24:32,550
authorize them to take a certain amount
of money out of your account every month.
494
00:24:32,670 --> 00:24:33,660
That's how that works, right?
495
00:24:33,900 --> 00:24:38,730
How this works is a smart contract
allows them to take money out of
496
00:24:38,730 --> 00:24:41,250
your wallet every time they want to.
497
00:24:41,700 --> 00:24:43,950
In this case, who's the they?
498
00:24:44,490 --> 00:24:47,610
So I'm a little bit confused on
the how they got the seed frame.
499
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:47,820
Okay.
500
00:24:47,820 --> 00:24:48,270
They didn't.
501
00:24:48,750 --> 00:24:49,950
It was never compromised.
502
00:24:50,940 --> 00:24:51,270
Okay.
503
00:24:51,330 --> 00:24:56,190
Oh, it was a I, when I got the
voucher, it attached what's called
504
00:24:56,190 --> 00:24:57,900
a spender wallet to my wallet.
505
00:24:57,900 --> 00:25:01,980
And what that did, it took the money out
of my wallet and gave it to the scammers.
506
00:25:03,360 --> 00:25:03,450
Good.
507
00:25:03,750 --> 00:25:07,620
How much The smart, the token
approval said an unlimited amount.
508
00:25:07,950 --> 00:25:11,160
They had access to my wallet and
could take an unlimited amount out
509
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:12,450
of it and give it to the scammer.
510
00:25:13,890 --> 00:25:16,140
And that's how they were taking the
money out of your account at the time?
511
00:25:16,140 --> 00:25:16,380
Exactly.
512
00:25:17,670 --> 00:25:17,880
Okay.
513
00:25:18,060 --> 00:25:20,430
So you were actually
signed up with Coinbase.
514
00:25:21,390 --> 00:25:23,130
It was actually legitimately Coinbase.
515
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,830
That's, it's not connected
to Coinbase whatsoever.
516
00:25:27,030 --> 00:25:27,270
Okay.
517
00:25:27,270 --> 00:25:28,770
So this is where I'm
a little bit confused.
518
00:25:29,130 --> 00:25:30,810
This voucher they gave you.
519
00:25:31,274 --> 00:25:32,385
What was that connected to?
520
00:25:32,385 --> 00:25:33,585
What were they trying to take money outta?
521
00:25:33,585 --> 00:25:36,075
Okay, so the voucher is
not a voucher at all.
522
00:25:36,075 --> 00:25:37,185
That's what they called it.
523
00:25:37,665 --> 00:25:40,815
It's we're talk, this is all
done on a computer, obviously.
524
00:25:41,085 --> 00:25:41,385
Got it.
525
00:25:41,385 --> 00:25:41,445
Yeah.
526
00:25:41,445 --> 00:25:45,915
And so the voucher, it was just
a, it's what is actually a token
527
00:25:45,915 --> 00:25:51,825
approval, meaning they are approved to
take all the money out of my wallet.
528
00:25:53,534 --> 00:25:53,774
Right.
529
00:25:53,774 --> 00:25:57,585
But that is where I'm lost Because you
said this, the wallet was fake, wasn't it?
530
00:25:57,585 --> 00:25:58,396
Or was it a real Wallet?
531
00:25:58,396 --> 00:25:58,397
Wallet.
532
00:25:58,402 --> 00:25:58,940
Wallet was real.
533
00:25:58,940 --> 00:25:59,659
It's Coinbase wallet.
534
00:26:01,365 --> 00:26:01,605
Okay.
535
00:26:01,605 --> 00:26:06,045
So it was legitimately a Coinbase
wallet that, that you signed up for.
536
00:26:06,315 --> 00:26:07,514
And so they were taking the money.
537
00:26:07,605 --> 00:26:10,245
Oh, so the scam is even, I
thought they had created a fake
538
00:26:10,305 --> 00:26:11,774
Coinbase account, but they didn't.
539
00:26:12,105 --> 00:26:16,215
They were actually using Coinbase and
then shifting the money over on you.
540
00:26:16,215 --> 00:26:17,170
That's all part of the scam.
541
00:26:17,170 --> 00:26:18,555
That is absolutely correct.
542
00:26:19,034 --> 00:26:22,635
Now, they use trust wallet quite a bit,
but they can scam out of any of them.
543
00:26:22,665 --> 00:26:23,685
It doesn't matter to them.
544
00:26:24,375 --> 00:26:29,235
So, uh, who do you call when no one
knows what the heck you're talking about?
545
00:26:31,500 --> 00:26:35,130
And I, I started, I, I went online.
546
00:26:35,130 --> 00:26:38,100
I looked at liquidity mining
and I found a Reddit group.
547
00:26:38,550 --> 00:26:40,800
And this Reddit group
was liquidity mining.
548
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:42,900
There were other people that
were falling for this thing.
549
00:26:43,710 --> 00:26:48,150
And so I met, sent a message to them
and somebody messaged me back and they,
550
00:26:48,150 --> 00:26:49,560
and they said, Hey, can we call you?
551
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,950
So they called me and
they were victims as well.
552
00:26:53,130 --> 00:26:55,890
And they said, well, hey, we're
getting a Facebook group together.
553
00:26:56,070 --> 00:26:56,880
Do you want to join us?
554
00:26:56,970 --> 00:26:58,440
I said, yes, absolutely.
555
00:26:59,490 --> 00:27:04,860
And so we have a Facebook group now
of victims of the mostly mining scam,
556
00:27:04,860 --> 00:27:06,810
but also the investment side as well.
557
00:27:06,870 --> 00:27:09,420
And there's almost 300
of us in that group.
558
00:27:10,140 --> 00:27:13,650
The losses of that I think are
somewhere around $30 million.
559
00:27:15,120 --> 00:27:16,140
$30 million.
560
00:27:16,140 --> 00:27:16,590
It's crazy.
561
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,830
So at this point you're still
trying to figure out how to get
562
00:27:19,830 --> 00:27:20,825
your money back, I'm assuming.
563
00:27:20,845 --> 00:27:21,065
Yes.
564
00:27:21,070 --> 00:27:23,130
So I'm calling everybody that I can call.
565
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:24,990
I called the fbi.
566
00:27:24,990 --> 00:27:28,260
They said, you gotta fill
out the ic3@icthree.gov.
567
00:27:28,965 --> 00:27:32,235
And that's a form where you, I like
anything else, I'm thinking, oh,
568
00:27:32,715 --> 00:27:35,325
I'm just gonna fill that form out
and it's just going to get lost.
569
00:27:35,325 --> 00:27:36,705
Like nothing's gonna happen.
570
00:27:37,035 --> 00:27:37,275
Yeah.
571
00:27:37,335 --> 00:27:40,305
When I filled that out, I
was actually contacted by two
572
00:27:40,365 --> 00:27:42,675
investigators with Homeland Security.
573
00:27:44,295 --> 00:27:45,705
I did a video chat with them.
574
00:27:46,215 --> 00:27:47,955
They looked, they, I told them my story.
575
00:27:47,955 --> 00:27:49,305
Same story I'm telling you now.
576
00:27:49,335 --> 00:27:50,835
They said, yeah, there's
nothing we can do.
577
00:27:51,735 --> 00:27:56,625
I had to figure out really quickly
what cryptocurrencies were and what
578
00:27:56,625 --> 00:28:01,545
my wallet actually is and how things
were moving in the blockchain.
579
00:28:02,055 --> 00:28:06,585
I'm not an expert, but I know
a little bit now at least.
580
00:28:07,635 --> 00:28:12,795
I started to reach out on X or Twitter,
whatever, and I found, I started
581
00:28:12,795 --> 00:28:16,575
looking at tech news or whatever, and
I started reaching out to some, to some
582
00:28:16,575 --> 00:28:20,175
journalists, because I wanted to get
the word I, one of the things I thought,
583
00:28:20,625 --> 00:28:25,575
one of the many thoughts I had was that
this is a problem and this is huge.
584
00:28:25,605 --> 00:28:25,785
Yeah.
585
00:28:26,745 --> 00:28:28,365
I, how do I tell people?
586
00:28:28,365 --> 00:28:29,985
How do I tell people this is going on?
587
00:28:30,375 --> 00:28:32,145
So I started trying to
reach out to journalists.
588
00:28:33,315 --> 00:28:36,945
One from the Washington Post
responded and wrote about my
589
00:28:36,945 --> 00:28:38,805
story and another guy as well.
590
00:28:39,705 --> 00:28:41,685
'cause victims now were
popping up everywhere.
591
00:28:42,855 --> 00:28:46,755
I started reaching out to journalists
and this particular one responded.
592
00:28:47,025 --> 00:28:50,745
When I joined the Facebook group, there
was another guy in there who was part of
593
00:28:50,745 --> 00:28:55,095
the global antis scam organization, and
this was the first time that I started
594
00:28:55,095 --> 00:28:58,185
finding out how widespread this scam is.
595
00:28:58,665 --> 00:29:03,195
I started hearing about hearing about
investment scams and Forex scams, like
596
00:29:03,195 --> 00:29:09,855
four X trading scams, and that people
were losing not 28,000, 2.8 million,
597
00:29:09,885 --> 00:29:12,975
half a million over there, a million
over here, and they were getting
598
00:29:12,975 --> 00:29:15,855
contacted on LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter.
599
00:29:16,905 --> 00:29:21,135
He brought me on to the Global
Antis scam organization in 2022.
600
00:29:23,145 --> 00:29:26,925
So I could explain this mining scam,
how that worked, and they could explain
601
00:29:26,925 --> 00:29:31,125
to me how the investment scam worked
and the investment scam is what most
602
00:29:31,125 --> 00:29:32,264
people are hearing about right now.
603
00:29:33,735 --> 00:29:38,564
My case was eventually investigated
by a secret service agent here in Ohio
604
00:29:38,564 --> 00:29:41,205
in 2022, almost a year after the scam.
605
00:29:41,564 --> 00:29:42,885
And of course the money was gone.
606
00:29:43,395 --> 00:29:44,355
Fortunately for me.
607
00:29:44,355 --> 00:29:50,774
However, back in June of 2024, the Secret
Service in San Francisco seized an account
608
00:29:50,835 --> 00:29:55,725
and backtraced it somehow found out that
my funds went through that account and
609
00:29:55,725 --> 00:29:59,895
now I could potentially get a hundred
percent recovery, but I'm still waiting.
610
00:30:01,064 --> 00:30:02,385
It sounds like one of those
things that could be a lot.
611
00:30:02,385 --> 00:30:03,105
I'm finding that out
612
00:30:05,595 --> 00:30:06,615
like everyone else.
613
00:30:06,885 --> 00:30:09,675
I didn't know any of this stuff
existed, and it's fascinating.
614
00:30:09,915 --> 00:30:11,745
And by the way, that's
only four years ago.
615
00:30:11,774 --> 00:30:14,355
It's not like this was 25 years ago.
616
00:30:14,355 --> 00:30:16,245
This is like a minute
and this is going on.
617
00:30:16,815 --> 00:30:20,625
Real briefly, talk a little bit
about your work with the Global Antis
618
00:30:20,625 --> 00:30:22,275
Scam organization and what that is.
619
00:30:22,665 --> 00:30:24,105
I'm seeing the stop the scam.
620
00:30:24,105 --> 00:30:24,675
What are those?
621
00:30:24,675 --> 00:30:28,605
Are they legit organizations stop
the scam in these different, I know
622
00:30:28,605 --> 00:30:32,655
Shamrock is, but there's a lot of Stop
the Scam organizations out there now.
623
00:30:33,495 --> 00:30:35,475
Are they just people
like you that are fed up?
624
00:30:35,565 --> 00:30:36,975
I believe that is the case, yes.
625
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:38,210
Okay.
626
00:30:38,235 --> 00:30:39,855
These scammers have evolved.
627
00:30:39,885 --> 00:30:41,775
They are doing lots of other scams.
628
00:30:41,805 --> 00:30:42,885
There is a job scam.
629
00:30:42,885 --> 00:30:44,625
A task scam out there right now.
630
00:30:44,655 --> 00:30:47,625
Folks may be getting a random
message about, Hey, would
631
00:30:47,625 --> 00:30:48,855
you like to work remotely?
632
00:30:48,855 --> 00:30:51,975
If so, contact this person
on WhatsApp or click here.
633
00:30:52,305 --> 00:30:53,355
That's task scams.
634
00:30:53,385 --> 00:30:53,445
Yeah.
635
00:30:53,445 --> 00:30:54,465
Coming from the same people.
636
00:30:55,005 --> 00:30:58,605
When Brian brought me on the Global
Antis Scam organization, they started
637
00:30:58,605 --> 00:31:02,835
in Southeast Asia, that we are mostly
victims, not all, but mostly victims.
638
00:31:03,375 --> 00:31:06,885
And so it was started by a woman who
was victimized and she got together
639
00:31:06,885 --> 00:31:10,395
with other victims and they just
started doing stuff and as the scam
640
00:31:10,395 --> 00:31:13,365
spread across the globe, so did Gasso.
641
00:31:13,770 --> 00:31:17,340
It was then that I understood about
the scam compounds throughout Southeast
642
00:31:17,340 --> 00:31:22,230
Asia and where I also understood that
people were being abducted or tricked
643
00:31:22,230 --> 00:31:26,850
or lured into these scam compounds and
forced to work these scams or else they
644
00:31:26,850 --> 00:31:30,000
get beaten or killed sometimes, right?
645
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:30,300
Yes.
646
00:31:30,300 --> 00:31:31,500
And that is still happening.
647
00:31:31,530 --> 00:31:36,030
Although because the word is out now, some
people are willingly going there to work.
648
00:31:36,690 --> 00:31:40,080
What Gasso does, we have an, we have
a human trafficking team, so they try
649
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:44,760
to go in and negotiate either with the
embassies or whoever, whatever contacts
650
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:50,190
they have to try to, to free folks
who want out these scam compounds.
651
00:31:50,850 --> 00:31:52,710
But the stories are
not always cut and dry.
652
00:31:53,910 --> 00:31:59,040
My job now with them is if press
wants to speak to us and they
653
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:03,055
email press@globalantisscam.org,
I'm the one that responds to it.
654
00:32:03,055 --> 00:32:03,335
Mm-hmm.
655
00:32:03,445 --> 00:32:08,760
Back in 2023, the US Institute
for Peace, uh, U US organization.
656
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,430
Obviously they wanted us to
help them with a project.
657
00:32:12,135 --> 00:32:16,515
And my job on that project was going to
be to follow the scammers on Telegram.
658
00:32:16,875 --> 00:32:20,505
The project fell through, but they
gave me a couple of telegram pages to
659
00:32:20,505 --> 00:32:25,635
start with and I just started clicking
and I found all kinds of stuff.
660
00:32:26,205 --> 00:32:27,405
I found scripts.
661
00:32:27,585 --> 00:32:28,725
I found chat groups.
662
00:32:28,875 --> 00:32:32,685
I found groups where they talk about
how they're manipulating the technology,
663
00:32:32,685 --> 00:32:37,185
the various social media pages to
how they can contact a lot of people.
664
00:32:38,355 --> 00:32:41,805
I have just a mountain of stuff
about how they try to make
665
00:32:41,805 --> 00:32:43,515
themselves look legitimate.
666
00:32:43,995 --> 00:32:45,315
I've got stuff on money laundering.
667
00:32:45,315 --> 00:32:50,505
I've got stuff on what they call black
you or stolen you and how they can try.
668
00:32:50,535 --> 00:32:56,355
Somebody can change their black you for
white you, which is stolen you to you.
669
00:32:56,355 --> 00:32:56,985
That's not stolen.
670
00:32:58,725 --> 00:32:59,835
Another brief side note.
671
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,990
Yu is short for un the currency of China.
672
00:33:04,110 --> 00:33:08,370
When he is referring to Black Yu, he's
referring to stolen Chinese currency.
673
00:33:08,550 --> 00:33:10,860
When he is referring to
White Yu, he's referring to
674
00:33:10,860 --> 00:33:12,240
currency that's been laundered.
675
00:33:12,540 --> 00:33:15,390
So just wanted to clear that up in
case anybody was confused by what
676
00:33:15,420 --> 00:33:17,490
White Yu and Black Yu actually was.
677
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:19,140
So that is what I do today.
678
00:33:19,290 --> 00:33:23,250
I follow 'em on Telegram and I post
it to my LinkedIn page so that all the
679
00:33:23,250 --> 00:33:28,470
folks that I follow and that follow
me, law enforcement, IT professionals,
680
00:33:28,530 --> 00:33:32,160
anybody other victims that they
can see what's going on out there.
681
00:33:33,660 --> 00:33:35,730
Oh my gosh, Troy, this is amazing.
682
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,700
I had no idea how prolific this was.
683
00:33:38,790 --> 00:33:41,400
And if you look around, it's
not like there's tons of
684
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:42,720
information out there about it.
685
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,630
There is a lot of information,
but it's not like we all
686
00:33:45,630 --> 00:33:46,890
heard about identity theft.
687
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,200
I started off like, I'm just
gonna interview different scans,
688
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,660
but I'm beginning to realize
that they're so connected.
689
00:33:54,570 --> 00:33:57,840
You talked about, and maybe this is
part of the GSO thing, you talked
690
00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:59,730
about, you actually met your.
691
00:34:00,510 --> 00:34:04,080
The person who did the scam
through Gap, I didn't meet the
692
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,450
person who did not meet them.
693
00:34:06,450 --> 00:34:08,186
But you talked to somebody
in the M already said Yes.
694
00:34:08,186 --> 00:34:12,120
So we get emailed by press all
the time, and on occasion we do
695
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,719
get emails from folks who are
trapped in one of these compounds.
696
00:34:16,290 --> 00:34:21,960
Last year, last summer, we got an email
from somebody that in a compound in,
697
00:34:22,020 --> 00:34:27,179
in, in a compound in Myanmar, that they
were trapped and that their compound
698
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:31,560
was using a various, uh, different
communication technology and they
699
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:32,909
wanted to know if we could shut it down.
700
00:34:33,630 --> 00:34:36,330
Don't think we had any luck
in shutting it down, but yes.
701
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,969
So sometimes we get to, I get to
have interesting conversations
702
00:34:38,969 --> 00:34:39,750
with people like that.
703
00:34:40,864 --> 00:34:44,819
I know you're not a law enforcement
person, but can we shut this down or
704
00:34:44,819 --> 00:34:49,110
is it just about knowledge That has
been the million dollar question.
705
00:34:49,259 --> 00:34:50,069
I know there are.
706
00:34:50,805 --> 00:34:53,655
When I was scammed in
2021, there was no law.
707
00:34:53,895 --> 00:34:54,105
Mm-hmm.
708
00:34:54,345 --> 00:34:59,565
And they have today, there's been a huge
federal response, particularly federal, in
709
00:34:59,565 --> 00:35:04,005
some cases, state as well, state and local
in various parts in the United States.
710
00:35:04,365 --> 00:35:06,075
That's been really fantastic.
711
00:35:07,065 --> 00:35:12,285
But there needs to be a lot more
because the scammers are vigilant
712
00:35:13,245 --> 00:35:16,215
and they're not stopping, and as
I said before, they're evolving.
713
00:35:17,025 --> 00:35:18,915
So I would like to see more of that.
714
00:35:19,185 --> 00:35:22,605
There has also been an outcry
amongst some of the law enforcement
715
00:35:22,635 --> 00:35:26,655
community and some of the IT community
for Congress to get involved.
716
00:35:27,825 --> 00:35:32,385
But I think because we have so many
folks out there who just think that
717
00:35:32,385 --> 00:35:36,825
somebody is dumb for falling for a
scam, that I'm not sure if that's
718
00:35:36,825 --> 00:35:39,315
on Congress's radar right now.
719
00:35:41,175 --> 00:35:41,535
Yeah.
720
00:35:41,565 --> 00:35:45,796
I'm hoping that maybe in some
small part smart article can help
721
00:35:45,801 --> 00:35:48,855
with that, because I don't think
this has anything to do with.
722
00:35:49,515 --> 00:35:50,625
Just being gullible.
723
00:35:50,625 --> 00:35:54,555
I talked to somebody at the Better
Business Bureau and she was saying that
724
00:35:54,555 --> 00:35:58,634
the majority of scam people that are
scammed now are actually younger, are
725
00:35:58,634 --> 00:36:02,115
in their thirties and twenties, and not
in their, A lot of people think, oh,
726
00:36:02,115 --> 00:36:03,255
they're just old people that get scammed.
727
00:36:03,255 --> 00:36:05,685
No, and it's not dumb
people that get scammed.
728
00:36:05,685 --> 00:36:07,455
It's, it's so prolific.
729
00:36:07,545 --> 00:36:08,985
They are so good at what they do.
730
00:36:08,985 --> 00:36:12,315
So I wanna thank you for taking
the time to talk about it.
731
00:36:12,315 --> 00:36:15,375
I can actually tell you that this
pi, these pig butchering scammers
732
00:36:15,375 --> 00:36:16,665
are looking for folks who are older.
733
00:36:17,865 --> 00:36:18,015
Yeah.
734
00:36:18,045 --> 00:36:18,645
Oh, I'm sure they are.
735
00:36:18,651 --> 00:36:20,145
Well, because they have a life savings.
736
00:36:20,865 --> 00:36:22,154
I have this in their documents.
737
00:36:22,335 --> 00:36:22,964
Oh yeah, I know that.
738
00:36:22,964 --> 00:36:24,884
And I've talked to these
people, so I know this.
739
00:36:24,884 --> 00:36:28,965
They are looking for folks who 50, 60,
70 years old here in the United States
740
00:36:28,965 --> 00:36:30,915
because they know about the life savings.
741
00:36:30,915 --> 00:36:33,884
They know about that 401k
and they're going after it.
742
00:36:35,475 --> 00:36:36,194
Oh, good Lord.
743
00:36:36,345 --> 00:36:36,674
All right.
744
00:36:36,735 --> 00:36:39,585
You've depressed me, but I am
grateful, Troy, that you've
745
00:36:39,585 --> 00:36:41,235
taken the time to talk with us.
746
00:36:41,235 --> 00:36:43,005
Hopefully we'll do our own small part.
747
00:36:43,305 --> 00:36:44,085
Keep doing what you're doing.
748
00:36:44,085 --> 00:36:44,865
I really appreciate.
749
00:36:44,865 --> 00:36:45,285
It's awesome.
750
00:36:45,285 --> 00:36:45,286
Thanks.
751
00:36:45,315 --> 00:36:46,214
Thanks for having me on.
752
00:36:46,515 --> 00:36:47,895
And hey, I appreciate the time.
753
00:36:54,209 --> 00:36:55,950
I'd like to welcome PJ
Jenkins to the show.
754
00:36:55,950 --> 00:37:00,899
PJ was a law enforcement officer in
the state of New Jersey for over 25
755
00:37:00,899 --> 00:37:03,629
years, retiring a couple of years ago.
756
00:37:04,259 --> 00:37:09,209
PJ has an extensive resume in the law
enforcement field, everything from
757
00:37:09,450 --> 00:37:13,830
being a state trooper all the way
up to running security for a casino.
758
00:37:14,069 --> 00:37:17,819
So he speaks with expertise when it
comes to law enforcement, and that's
759
00:37:17,819 --> 00:37:20,819
one of the reasons why I was so
excited to get a chance to talk to pj.
760
00:37:21,299 --> 00:37:24,209
So pj, welcome to the
Smart Article podcast.
761
00:37:24,209 --> 00:37:28,379
I appreciate you taking time to come
with us on this series about scams.
762
00:37:28,830 --> 00:37:33,450
So before we even get started, before PJ
gives us his intro, I have to say that
763
00:37:34,620 --> 00:37:38,730
when I reached out to PJ, he was like, ah,
I can't believe this is still going on.
764
00:37:39,465 --> 00:37:42,795
But I will tell you from the bottom of my
heart, and for a lot of people, if we can
765
00:37:42,795 --> 00:37:47,085
save one person for going through what
you went through, we win all that to say.
766
00:37:47,085 --> 00:37:48,465
Pj, thanks for coming on.
767
00:37:48,945 --> 00:37:50,985
Can you tell us a little bit
about yourself and then we'll
768
00:37:50,985 --> 00:37:52,215
get into what happened to you?
769
00:37:53,055 --> 00:37:53,385
Yes.
770
00:37:53,385 --> 00:37:54,465
Thank you for having me, Brandon.
771
00:37:54,465 --> 00:37:54,615
Sure.
772
00:37:54,765 --> 00:37:58,905
Again, when you reached out, I have
shelved all this because a part of
773
00:37:58,905 --> 00:38:04,035
the, the scam, the afterwards, it's,
some people get depressed and part
774
00:38:04,035 --> 00:38:08,175
of this scam, two people actually
committed suicide, which was horrific.
775
00:38:08,565 --> 00:38:12,105
And then trying to get the message out
to, like you said, if you can save one
776
00:38:12,105 --> 00:38:14,085
person, it makes it all worthwhile.
777
00:38:14,355 --> 00:38:18,915
With my background, uh, law enforcement, I
started off as a local police officer for
778
00:38:18,915 --> 00:38:24,135
two years, and then I transferred over to
the New Jersey State Police for 26 years.
779
00:38:24,735 --> 00:38:29,685
Everything from station detective
to that administrator governor's
780
00:38:29,685 --> 00:38:33,975
unit, I have a three page
resume, street gangs, everything.
781
00:38:34,335 --> 00:38:35,685
So considered myself.
782
00:38:36,645 --> 00:38:37,095
Professional.
783
00:38:37,095 --> 00:38:41,490
I've been director of security
at Resource World Casino in New
784
00:38:41,490 --> 00:38:43,095
York, 8 million people a year.
785
00:38:43,455 --> 00:38:48,465
To me, being scammed was one of my biggest
black marks, I would say in my life,
786
00:38:48,975 --> 00:38:53,925
because I'm the person who preaches and
teaches other people not to get scammed.
787
00:38:53,925 --> 00:38:53,985
Yeah.
788
00:38:54,345 --> 00:38:56,715
So when I got scammed, it was a shocker.
789
00:38:57,465 --> 00:39:02,445
How it started was basically just going
on a social website, talking to an
790
00:39:02,445 --> 00:39:04,635
attractive woman who slow played me.
791
00:39:04,845 --> 00:39:07,815
Now, before you go on to that, can I,
because this is one of the things that
792
00:39:07,815 --> 00:39:11,505
I've found out through this is like a lot
of people, it's just done through tech.
793
00:39:11,715 --> 00:39:17,775
You actually went on a dating website,
met somebody, like millions of people do.
794
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,970
Thought they were attractive
and nice and whatever.
795
00:39:21,180 --> 00:39:23,759
Did you actually, did they have
a picture of themselves up?
796
00:39:24,029 --> 00:39:25,620
Oh, they had a picture of themselves up.
797
00:39:25,620 --> 00:39:29,040
Of course, when you're meeting
anyone, you start, after a while you
798
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:33,029
start sharing pictures and started
sharing things about each other.
799
00:39:33,150 --> 00:39:36,480
And she knew us from the Hamilton,
New Jersey area, which is the
800
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:37,890
blueberry capital of the world.
801
00:39:37,890 --> 00:39:40,980
So her cute name for me was Mr. Blueberry.
802
00:39:41,819 --> 00:39:41,850
Oh.
803
00:39:42,060 --> 00:39:44,040
It became very personal.
804
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:52,200
And then one of the first things that we
did was because she was Asian, she invited
805
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:56,670
me over to WhatsApp because she said it
translated, made translation easier, made
806
00:39:56,670 --> 00:39:59,160
connections easier, and it was reasonable.
807
00:39:59,310 --> 00:40:02,400
That was part of me joining
her over on that platform.
808
00:40:02,819 --> 00:40:06,089
And by the way, that is a
very common scammers app for
809
00:40:06,089 --> 00:40:06,990
people that are out there.
810
00:40:07,380 --> 00:40:08,940
When someone asks you to go on WhatsApp.
811
00:40:09,780 --> 00:40:13,050
Be very, not that you can't use web
WhatsApp, it's not that it's not a
812
00:40:13,050 --> 00:40:18,120
legitimate thing, but the reason they
use it is because it allows them to take
813
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:20,130
you off of one platform onto another.
814
00:40:20,370 --> 00:40:23,400
So just be aware that if that
comes up, maybe a little bit
815
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:25,620
of skepticism regardless.
816
00:40:25,620 --> 00:40:26,280
You went on there.
817
00:40:27,270 --> 00:40:28,590
WhatsApp is encrypted.
818
00:40:28,860 --> 00:40:30,660
This is part of why the scammers use it.
819
00:40:30,690 --> 00:40:34,020
It's a legit platform and it's got
millions and millions of users.
820
00:40:34,350 --> 00:40:37,170
But it is mainly on the
Asian side of things.
821
00:40:38,100 --> 00:40:41,460
But I've had legitimate interviews
around the world on WhatsApp, but there
822
00:40:41,460 --> 00:40:43,680
is WhatsApp job offer scams there.
823
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:47,100
There, there's, like you said, you
have to be very careful when someone's
824
00:40:47,100 --> 00:40:49,200
asking you to go on WhatsApp.
825
00:40:49,470 --> 00:40:52,680
Telegram, there's, there's
numerous different ones, but those
826
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:54,000
are the two of the major ones.
827
00:40:54,390 --> 00:40:58,680
So you go onto WhatsApp with her, you're
communicating back and forth via WhatsApp
828
00:40:58,710 --> 00:41:00,750
and, and what's the timeline of this?
829
00:41:00,750 --> 00:41:01,290
It's just like.
830
00:41:01,710 --> 00:41:02,610
A couple days.
831
00:41:03,180 --> 00:41:08,130
Oh no, this is, this is why I say it's,
it was very intriguing because it was
832
00:41:08,130 --> 00:41:09,750
well played, because it was slow played.
833
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:16,620
It was no hurry, nothing was mentioned
for at least a month before she started,
834
00:41:16,620 --> 00:41:18,240
Hey, what do you do for a living now?
835
00:41:18,240 --> 00:41:19,230
What are you doing?
836
00:41:19,230 --> 00:41:20,280
And blah, blah, blah.
837
00:41:20,670 --> 00:41:25,140
And I had just recently retired
and she was like, oh, I have this
838
00:41:25,140 --> 00:41:29,640
wonderful platform that I'm on,
Coinbase, it's in your wallet.
839
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:31,500
You have total control of it.
840
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:36,090
And that's what part of the upsetting
part was that once I was scammed and I
841
00:41:36,090 --> 00:41:41,280
reached out to Coinbase and I tried to
make them alert to what was going on, they
842
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:43,770
did absolutely nothing to shut it down.
843
00:41:44,310 --> 00:41:46,410
They have since changed
their user agreement.
844
00:41:46,470 --> 00:41:51,120
And, but yeah, it's tried to strike
the gr the drum hard and loud.
845
00:41:51,555 --> 00:41:52,995
To warn other people.
846
00:41:53,295 --> 00:41:56,235
But before you go into the Coinbase
thing, I've interviewed five different
847
00:41:56,235 --> 00:41:59,205
people that have gone through this, what,
what's known as a pig butchering scam.
848
00:41:59,475 --> 00:42:01,545
And every one of 'em were
scammed through Coinbase.
849
00:42:01,545 --> 00:42:01,605
Yeah.
850
00:42:01,964 --> 00:42:04,935
Now, it's not that Coinbase is not a
legitimate company, they're not the
851
00:42:04,935 --> 00:42:11,595
scammers, it's just the fact that it's
an easy system to use to run the scam.
852
00:42:11,595 --> 00:42:12,165
Is that correct?
853
00:42:13,035 --> 00:42:13,455
Yes.
854
00:42:13,455 --> 00:42:17,025
The way it's set up, when you think
Coinbase and you think of the company,
855
00:42:17,055 --> 00:42:19,455
you think that it's a legitimate company.
856
00:42:19,725 --> 00:42:22,424
Millions and billions of
dollars are being generated.
857
00:42:22,424 --> 00:42:27,225
So you feel like the way that they also
advertise is that what, the encryption
858
00:42:27,225 --> 00:42:31,365
that Coinbase has, you can't, nobody
can hack you, but that's just not true.
859
00:42:31,875 --> 00:42:36,525
So that, that was the other part of the
article that I did that I wanted them
860
00:42:36,525 --> 00:42:41,475
to go after and have hold Coinbase more
accountable than they actually were.
861
00:42:42,615 --> 00:42:46,935
The article, at least in
general, got the, the scam out.
862
00:42:47,295 --> 00:42:50,085
So after a month of talking to this woman.
863
00:42:51,375 --> 00:42:54,630
On WhatsApp or whatever you she now offer.
864
00:42:55,260 --> 00:42:56,850
Explain that because that's the key.
865
00:42:56,850 --> 00:42:58,500
I've heard this in a
lot of different scams.
866
00:42:58,500 --> 00:43:01,860
This is where the, this is
where the hook hits in the con.
867
00:43:01,860 --> 00:43:05,130
So what happens after a couple of months?
868
00:43:05,190 --> 00:43:08,190
Again, slow played exchange numbers.
869
00:43:08,190 --> 00:43:12,630
We are talking not only just texting,
we're also talking to each other.
870
00:43:12,630 --> 00:43:13,285
And then mm-hmm.
871
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:14,370
She texts me.
872
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:15,210
How does that happen?
873
00:43:15,210 --> 00:43:18,605
She, you're actually on, uh, what
are you talking through WhatsApp?
874
00:43:18,625 --> 00:43:18,845
Yes.
875
00:43:18,845 --> 00:43:19,620
Are you talking through signal?
876
00:43:19,740 --> 00:43:20,310
Talking through WhatsApp?
877
00:43:20,910 --> 00:43:21,270
Yes.
878
00:43:21,270 --> 00:43:22,770
So you're talking to this woman?
879
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:23,190
Yes.
880
00:43:23,190 --> 00:43:26,520
And you're, it's, is this romantic
at this point or getting there?
881
00:43:26,670 --> 00:43:30,840
Right now, after a couple of months we're
talking, now we're setting up, meeting
882
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:32,730
where we're gonna meet, blah, blah, blah.
883
00:43:33,540 --> 00:43:36,000
Then she know, she
introduced it as a project.
884
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:41,490
Let's do a project together and let's,
I'm making money on in Coinbase.
885
00:43:41,730 --> 00:43:44,250
I would love for you to
be a part of it and help.
886
00:43:44,745 --> 00:43:49,484
Secure your greater financial stability
being retired and so on and so forth.
887
00:43:49,875 --> 00:43:56,055
She sent me screenshots of what she was
doing and actually walked me through it.
888
00:43:56,294 --> 00:44:01,305
Then she introduced, it's called
Delphi Liquidity Mining, and I
889
00:44:01,305 --> 00:44:02,415
was like, how does that work?
890
00:44:02,714 --> 00:44:06,855
She's like, mining is not buying and
selling like a mine in the mountains.
891
00:44:06,855 --> 00:44:09,615
It's full of, they call it ETH.
892
00:44:10,125 --> 00:44:15,225
We mine that through
transferring that into U-S-D-D-T.
893
00:44:15,225 --> 00:44:20,115
I don't know if you're familiar with
the terminology of crypto trading or, we
894
00:44:20,115 --> 00:44:24,825
actually have one whole episode dedicated
to understanding crypto and blockchain.
895
00:44:25,095 --> 00:44:25,605
Okay.
896
00:44:25,845 --> 00:44:27,765
If we don't understand it
now, we'll understand it.
897
00:44:27,825 --> 00:44:28,544
Okay, good.
898
00:44:29,145 --> 00:44:30,524
This was basically what it was.
899
00:44:30,585 --> 00:44:37,725
It's not mining per se, it's, it's a
certificate of a mining node that you're
900
00:44:37,725 --> 00:44:40,605
obtained from within your Coinbase wallet.
901
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:51,569
That actually goes out every day and
supposed to mine 0.0045% of what you do.
902
00:44:51,779 --> 00:44:55,560
And it's, explain this, this is an
activity in Coinbase wallet to attract
903
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:58,470
new registered users and storage.
904
00:44:58,890 --> 00:45:01,950
The USDT does not need to be
professionally transferred or to
905
00:45:01,950 --> 00:45:05,400
any platform or personal accounts
that will remain in your Coinbase
906
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:11,040
wallet and it will let you withdraw
or trade currencies at any time.
907
00:45:11,490 --> 00:45:17,339
And this line of the conversation
was the hook in my mouth when mm-hmm.
908
00:45:17,580 --> 00:45:22,589
I thought it was safe in my wallet
and I was, nobody else could get it.
909
00:45:22,710 --> 00:45:26,040
I could take it out or
trade it at any time.
910
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:27,120
And I did.
911
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:28,110
I did it four times.
912
00:45:28,110 --> 00:45:32,850
I did the trades transferred, took
it all out, put it all back in to
913
00:45:32,850 --> 00:45:35,040
make sure to myself that it was safe.
914
00:45:35,715 --> 00:45:39,195
And that's where I got Do you think
they knew that this is a possibility?
915
00:45:39,345 --> 00:45:42,315
Do you think they do this so that
they like create trust in you?
916
00:45:42,765 --> 00:45:45,405
We're gonna allow him to take this
money out that you put in because
917
00:45:45,435 --> 00:45:50,115
Coinbase is a legitimate thing and you
are taking money out American Dollar.
918
00:45:50,115 --> 00:45:52,095
It's not just some crazy thing.
919
00:45:52,095 --> 00:45:52,875
It's like a bank.
920
00:45:53,175 --> 00:45:55,005
You take it out and you put it back in.
921
00:45:55,005 --> 00:45:59,115
So you're doing this and all
the while is your hammer.
922
00:45:59,115 --> 00:46:01,425
Do they, are they aware
this is going on with you?
923
00:46:01,634 --> 00:46:02,055
Oh yeah.
924
00:46:02,055 --> 00:46:06,675
They're co they're physically
screenshotting how to, if you have
925
00:46:06,675 --> 00:46:11,025
any questions or any, they hand walk
you through every step of the way.
926
00:46:11,505 --> 00:46:13,545
Like they're actually trying to
help you make money, but they're
927
00:46:13,545 --> 00:46:15,795
just getting deeper into your money.
928
00:46:15,884 --> 00:46:18,705
Because I was cautious,
I started off mm-hmm.
929
00:46:18,975 --> 00:46:20,235
With $500.
930
00:46:20,805 --> 00:46:25,065
I took it out, put it back
in, increased it to $1,500.
931
00:46:25,485 --> 00:46:29,505
Meanwhile, in Coinbase and in
this node that they send you for
932
00:46:29,505 --> 00:46:34,305
your Coinbase wallet, you see and
your Coinbase, you see it growing.
933
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:40,259
You see that zero, zero 4%
based on if it's $1,500, you
934
00:46:40,259 --> 00:46:42,990
see that daily accumulating.
935
00:46:43,049 --> 00:46:44,040
So it's not a lot of money.
936
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:47,129
It's like two or three, two or $3 a day.
937
00:46:47,430 --> 00:46:49,500
But then as you create,
that's how they get you.
938
00:46:49,500 --> 00:46:52,859
The more money you put into this
Coinbase wallet and the more money
939
00:46:52,890 --> 00:46:58,770
that they have in your USDT that is
mined, you see it steadily growing.
940
00:46:58,950 --> 00:47:01,109
So you're encouraged, but
that's not real, right?
941
00:47:01,109 --> 00:47:02,339
That's fake growth.
942
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:06,210
Your money's real, but the actual
right, the, the actual mining.
943
00:47:06,240 --> 00:47:10,319
But you see the screen, you see
it growing daily, so they've
944
00:47:10,319 --> 00:47:11,819
taken you to a fake website.
945
00:47:12,420 --> 00:47:14,129
You're in there, it
looks just like Coinbase.
946
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:14,310
Yeah.
947
00:47:14,384 --> 00:47:18,509
It's, yeah, it, it's within
Coinbase that you see this.
948
00:47:18,509 --> 00:47:20,009
It's not taking you to some.
949
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:24,210
Other site that you can't see it,
you'd see it all with the Coinbase.
950
00:47:24,210 --> 00:47:25,620
That's why you think it's legit.
951
00:47:25,649 --> 00:47:26,850
That's why you think it's real.
952
00:47:27,299 --> 00:47:28,620
That's why you think, oh, I can.
953
00:47:28,620 --> 00:47:30,569
So how do they fake the
numbers in Coinbase?
954
00:47:30,569 --> 00:47:31,649
How do they actually do that?
955
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:34,290
They send you this link within Coinbase.
956
00:47:34,295 --> 00:47:34,575
Mm-hmm.
957
00:47:34,660 --> 00:47:40,080
And once you clink on that link that joins
that, you know that mining group, you just
958
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:42,690
give them the keys to the kingdom, right?
959
00:47:42,690 --> 00:47:44,160
There's like some crazy code.
960
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:48,629
Now they own your Coinbase
wallet and you don't know that.
961
00:47:48,629 --> 00:47:50,700
You still think that
you have control of it.
962
00:47:50,879 --> 00:47:53,759
You still think that you're,
nobody's got your past phrase.
963
00:47:53,910 --> 00:47:57,990
Nobody can get in there because if
you've ever set up a Coinbase wallet,
964
00:47:58,020 --> 00:48:03,270
there's 26 different encryption
phrases to be able to lock your wallet.
965
00:48:03,839 --> 00:48:06,899
You're thinking no way
that nobody can get this.
966
00:48:06,899 --> 00:48:10,680
But once you click that certificate
link that they send you, within
967
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:15,750
Coinbase, you've just given them a
hundred percent access to your wallet.
968
00:48:16,424 --> 00:48:20,895
After you do that, then they slowly
keep trying to get you to increase
969
00:48:21,165 --> 00:48:22,335
the money that you're putting.
970
00:48:23,024 --> 00:48:25,754
And unbeknownst to me, I think it's legit.
971
00:48:25,845 --> 00:48:30,404
So I start word of mouth, look, I've
been in this thing for three months.
972
00:48:30,734 --> 00:48:33,254
I've taken the money out,
took putting it back in.
973
00:48:33,375 --> 00:48:37,004
It's not a lot of money that I'm
making, but at the end of the month,
974
00:48:37,004 --> 00:48:38,654
it's a couple extra hundred dollars.
975
00:48:38,924 --> 00:48:41,924
My goal was just to put
enough money in there to have
976
00:48:42,254 --> 00:48:44,504
additional $500 a month come in.
977
00:48:44,535 --> 00:48:46,154
Yeah, nice little side hustle, right?
978
00:48:46,484 --> 00:48:50,595
So just a little side gig, a little
bit extra to what you'll call it.
979
00:48:50,774 --> 00:48:55,004
Obviously she's showing me she's got a
couple hundred thousand in there on her
980
00:48:55,004 --> 00:49:00,375
screenshots and that she's making two
or 3000 a month, whereas I'm like, all
981
00:49:00,375 --> 00:49:01,935
right, I don't want to put that much.
982
00:49:02,115 --> 00:49:05,294
But thank God they pulled the rug before.
983
00:49:05,895 --> 00:49:11,234
Before I actually was thinking
about taking my home equity.
984
00:49:11,805 --> 00:49:15,255
And cashing out and putting
significant amount of money.
985
00:49:15,645 --> 00:49:16,785
Why do you think they pulled out?
986
00:49:17,295 --> 00:49:21,555
I think it was, it was near the holidays.
987
00:49:21,795 --> 00:49:28,605
It was, I, if I, I remember it was like
December 1st and I think that maybe
988
00:49:28,605 --> 00:49:31,035
the wind started blowing against them.
989
00:49:31,845 --> 00:49:34,125
Literally, I was on Coinbase.
990
00:49:34,125 --> 00:49:37,965
My nephew called me because I
actually, I got him to thinking
991
00:49:37,965 --> 00:49:39,135
that I'm helping my nephews.
992
00:49:39,225 --> 00:49:39,315
Mm-hmm.
993
00:49:39,555 --> 00:49:42,825
Hey, take five or $6,000 and put this
in there and you have a couple extra
994
00:49:42,825 --> 00:49:43,995
hundred dollars at the end of the month.
995
00:49:44,205 --> 00:49:46,905
My nephew called and said, I
can't get into my Coinbase.
996
00:49:47,625 --> 00:49:50,235
My other nephew called me and
said, my Coinbase is wiped.
997
00:49:50,295 --> 00:49:51,945
I can't see anything into it.
998
00:49:52,245 --> 00:49:53,925
So I'm like, hold on, let me log on.
999
00:49:54,165 --> 00:50:00,015
Actually, I logged on and I saw 20 grand
in front of my eyes just disappear.
1000
00:50:00,645 --> 00:50:01,155
Oh, wow.
1001
00:50:01,335 --> 00:50:03,135
So there was nothing I
could, once it's gone.
1002
00:50:03,495 --> 00:50:04,215
That's the other thing.
1003
00:50:04,215 --> 00:50:06,045
Once it's gone, you start chasing it.
1004
00:50:06,630 --> 00:50:09,240
It's interesting because I spoke
with Erin West, who's an expert
1005
00:50:09,240 --> 00:50:10,650
in these big butchering scam.
1006
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:13,650
She works for an organization
called shamrock.org.
1007
00:50:13,710 --> 00:50:17,280
Their entire reason for being
is to help people deal with
1008
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:18,660
scams and be aware of them.
1009
00:50:18,660 --> 00:50:21,540
She's an ex prosecutor and
she said, and I found this to
1010
00:50:21,540 --> 00:50:22,650
be true, you're really lucky.
1011
00:50:23,220 --> 00:50:26,640
'cause most people that get involved
in these big butchering scams, they
1012
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:30,420
take the, their entire job is to
take every single thing you have.
1013
00:50:30,420 --> 00:50:33,810
So when you said you were going into your
h your home equity, they want everything.
1014
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:35,970
They want to take every
single penny you have.
1015
00:50:35,970 --> 00:50:38,040
So the fact that you
didn't pretty amazing.
1016
00:50:38,130 --> 00:50:42,360
That started giving me a red flag
at that point, uh, because she
1017
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:43,500
started getting pushy about it.
1018
00:50:43,650 --> 00:50:46,140
How come you're not, you're making
this money and, and you're already,
1019
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:49,350
you're already up a couple thousand
dollars or blah, blah, blah.
1020
00:50:49,650 --> 00:50:51,960
You're not really serious
about making money.
1021
00:50:52,410 --> 00:50:54,900
And she started saying, when
are you gonna go to the bank?
1022
00:50:54,900 --> 00:50:58,680
And when I start sending you to the
bank, uh, that's another red flag.
1023
00:50:58,920 --> 00:50:59,220
Yeah.
1024
00:50:59,460 --> 00:51:02,730
And they will send you to the bank
to make sure that you're taking your
1025
00:51:02,819 --> 00:51:07,710
money outta your banking account and
wire transferring it into Coinbase or
1026
00:51:07,710 --> 00:51:10,170
whatever app that you're using for that.
1027
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:12,810
So it, it all seems legit.
1028
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:16,380
It all makes sense until the, like
I said, until the rug is pulled.
1029
00:51:16,590 --> 00:51:17,580
And that's what they usually do.
1030
00:51:17,580 --> 00:51:21,660
They wait until they have enough
people in it and then they
1031
00:51:21,660 --> 00:51:23,009
pull the rug all of a sudden.
1032
00:51:23,069 --> 00:51:27,810
And at, for my particular scam, at
the time that Washington posted the
1033
00:51:27,810 --> 00:51:33,870
story, they had uncovered it with
that $66 million and continuing and
1034
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:39,210
was not stopped in any way even after
the article was written by Coinbase.
1035
00:51:39,569 --> 00:51:41,730
By the way, that article came out in 2022.
1036
00:51:41,940 --> 00:51:43,350
And this is still prevalent.
1037
00:51:43,350 --> 00:51:46,350
This is not, well, that was some
scam that happened a while ago
1038
00:51:46,350 --> 00:51:47,370
and it doesn't happen anymore.
1039
00:51:47,610 --> 00:51:50,009
It's actually increased since then.
1040
00:51:50,009 --> 00:51:50,970
So even though.
1041
00:51:51,750 --> 00:51:56,520
We have more knowledge of it, it's still
happening and it's actually increasing.
1042
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:58,500
So I just want people to be aware of that.
1043
00:51:58,500 --> 00:52:02,040
It's not like PJ got his money
and then, oh, well, sucks you
1044
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:03,690
pj, but now we're moving on.
1045
00:52:03,695 --> 00:52:03,935
Right.
1046
00:52:03,935 --> 00:52:04,890
It's not moving on.
1047
00:52:05,190 --> 00:52:09,060
That's why I said the rug pool,
just in my instance of just the
1048
00:52:09,060 --> 00:52:11,400
group that I was in was 66 million.
1049
00:52:11,490 --> 00:52:13,140
That's not the total amount of it.
1050
00:52:13,830 --> 00:52:14,370
You know what I mean?
1051
00:52:14,610 --> 00:52:14,700
Right.
1052
00:52:14,705 --> 00:52:19,020
And that was from let's, I had started
that talking to her in September,
1053
00:52:19,020 --> 00:52:23,610
and by, like I said, December
1st, the money was pulled, so my
1054
00:52:23,610 --> 00:52:27,900
total family losses were $86,000.
1055
00:52:28,049 --> 00:52:28,529
Oh.
1056
00:52:28,770 --> 00:52:32,759
Like I said, I had a friend within
that coin, Coinbase Facebook
1057
00:52:32,759 --> 00:52:34,290
group that I joined afterwards.
1058
00:52:34,755 --> 00:52:38,265
That had started talking to me
because I was the one that was in
1059
00:52:38,265 --> 00:52:40,275
law enforcement within that group.
1060
00:52:40,275 --> 00:52:44,115
So everyone started reaching out to me
is what is law enforcement gonna do and
1061
00:52:44,115 --> 00:52:46,725
what does it's unregulated business.
1062
00:52:46,845 --> 00:52:50,384
This is why I don't believe in
no longer believe in crypto.
1063
00:52:50,775 --> 00:52:51,675
It's unregulated.
1064
00:52:51,675 --> 00:52:54,105
There's no gatekeepers,
there's no law enforcement.
1065
00:52:54,495 --> 00:52:58,815
After my article of, of course, after
it happened to me, I wrote lengthy,
1066
00:52:59,265 --> 00:53:03,075
well-prepared statements to Coinbase
to make them fully aware of what was
1067
00:53:03,075 --> 00:53:06,345
going on with their platform, and I
just felt like they didn't care because
1068
00:53:06,345 --> 00:53:10,610
they get a piece of the transactions
every day that happened on Coinbase.
1069
00:53:10,615 --> 00:53:11,985
Mm-hmm.
1070
00:53:12,750 --> 00:53:15,060
I felt that they didn't wanna
stop anything from happening
1071
00:53:15,060 --> 00:53:15,990
'cause they're still making money.
1072
00:53:16,140 --> 00:53:20,220
Regardless of you're getting, if the
scammer's making money or you're losing
1073
00:53:20,220 --> 00:53:23,190
money, they're still making money
because they're just charging you for
1074
00:53:23,190 --> 00:53:25,290
the transactions that occur on there.
1075
00:53:25,620 --> 00:53:26,850
I wanted to go after them.
1076
00:53:27,060 --> 00:53:30,540
That whole group, we tried to pull
money together to get a lawyer, a
1077
00:53:30,540 --> 00:53:32,610
New York lawyer to, to go after them.
1078
00:53:32,940 --> 00:53:36,390
It was really a rabbit hole to
continue to go to, and for my
1079
00:53:36,390 --> 00:53:38,520
peace of mind and for my sanity.
1080
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:41,640
A year later, I finally
closed it all down.
1081
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:45,660
And like I said, you're the first
person in a long time, but I did have
1082
00:53:45,660 --> 00:53:50,100
people on Facebook that contacted me,
people through email that contacted me.
1083
00:53:50,490 --> 00:53:54,540
And I, like I said, if I can save
one person from committing suicide
1084
00:53:54,540 --> 00:53:58,800
or to losing everything that they
have, because I was still, even
1085
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:02,670
though I was going through it, I
was still, I didn't go all, all in.
1086
00:54:02,820 --> 00:54:05,310
And I just had a friend
recently, within weeks.
1087
00:54:05,745 --> 00:54:07,785
That went all in and just lost everything.
1088
00:54:07,785 --> 00:54:13,365
And I tried to warn him with two weeks of
before he got his rug pulled, and that's
1089
00:54:13,365 --> 00:54:15,345
what we call it, when they finally mm-hmm.
1090
00:54:15,345 --> 00:54:18,615
Exposed a scam and stopped trying to
make you believe they'll just take
1091
00:54:18,615 --> 00:54:20,565
everything and then you're done.
1092
00:54:20,595 --> 00:54:22,125
Did they just ghost you at that point?
1093
00:54:22,245 --> 00:54:22,725
Oh no.
1094
00:54:22,815 --> 00:54:26,565
She had the, to actually
taunted me because I was like,
1095
00:54:26,685 --> 00:54:28,035
how could you do this to me?
1096
00:54:28,035 --> 00:54:29,835
Like, I was like, still in shock.
1097
00:54:29,835 --> 00:54:31,095
I was like, I believed you.
1098
00:54:31,245 --> 00:54:31,725
You know what I mean?
1099
00:54:31,725 --> 00:54:36,134
And I, that's what my, as the law
enforcement, seeing hundreds of
1100
00:54:36,134 --> 00:54:39,795
victims and thousands of victims
during my career, sometimes they're
1101
00:54:39,795 --> 00:54:41,715
very obvious when somebody's scammed.
1102
00:54:41,865 --> 00:54:45,735
Somebody's from like a third world,
Ghana is saying, wire me money to Ghana.
1103
00:54:45,735 --> 00:54:46,395
It's a red flag.
1104
00:54:46,425 --> 00:54:46,665
Right?
1105
00:54:47,205 --> 00:54:50,415
There's some obvious red flags and
there's some that are not so obvious.
1106
00:54:50,415 --> 00:54:52,785
And this was, this one was well played.
1107
00:54:52,904 --> 00:54:53,895
That's why it's making.
1108
00:54:54,540 --> 00:54:56,610
Billions of dollars because
it's still going on.
1109
00:54:56,850 --> 00:54:57,750
So wait, they taunt.
1110
00:54:57,750 --> 00:54:58,680
She taunted you?
1111
00:54:58,680 --> 00:54:59,520
What did she say?
1112
00:54:59,940 --> 00:55:01,950
Oh, yes, she, because I was like, ah.
1113
00:55:01,950 --> 00:55:03,990
I said, you not only got
me, you got family members.
1114
00:55:03,990 --> 00:55:05,580
She goes, I didn't tell
you to tell anybody.
1115
00:55:06,295 --> 00:55:07,195
She threw right in my face.
1116
00:55:07,215 --> 00:55:07,915
And I was like, true.
1117
00:55:09,030 --> 00:55:09,211
Sure you not.
1118
00:55:09,211 --> 00:55:12,360
Why do you think she even answered
you after they'd taken the money?
1119
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:14,340
Do you think she was hoping
to get more outta you?
1120
00:55:14,370 --> 00:55:14,850
Yes.
1121
00:55:15,030 --> 00:55:17,820
So this is the part, the, this is
the part, like it's a rabbit hole.
1122
00:55:17,820 --> 00:55:24,090
So in order, what she kept saying was,
okay, in order to buy out your, you signed
1123
00:55:24,090 --> 00:55:25,800
a contract when you signed that link.
1124
00:55:26,370 --> 00:55:31,620
So in order for us to reimburse you,
you've gotta fulfill your contract
1125
00:55:31,620 --> 00:55:33,990
with, which is like $250,000.
1126
00:55:34,650 --> 00:55:40,920
So we will be, if you give us minus the
$86,000, there's a hundred and whatever
1127
00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:45,630
adds up to 250, you send us that balance
and then we will refund you everything.
1128
00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:50,400
So it's still, so if you're desperate
and you're chasing your money.
1129
00:55:51,045 --> 00:55:53,925
You're gonna try to, because they're
playing it off like they're legit.
1130
00:55:53,955 --> 00:55:57,945
They're playing it off just still
like, like, Hey, this is not our fault.
1131
00:55:57,945 --> 00:55:58,875
This is your fault.
1132
00:55:58,930 --> 00:55:59,470
You know what I mean?
1133
00:55:59,565 --> 00:56:01,965
This is something that
you signed a contract.
1134
00:56:01,965 --> 00:56:03,465
I'm like, I've never signed a contract.
1135
00:56:03,465 --> 00:56:07,155
And they're like, once you agree
to that link, this is the contract.
1136
00:56:07,575 --> 00:56:08,535
Oh my goodness.
1137
00:56:08,535 --> 00:56:10,995
And so they're playing against your
fear of a law and all these things.
1138
00:56:11,355 --> 00:56:13,185
And then you're at that.
1139
00:56:13,665 --> 00:56:18,015
When you're in that state of mind, you're
cha, it's like going to the casino.
1140
00:56:18,465 --> 00:56:18,795
Yeah.
1141
00:56:19,245 --> 00:56:20,625
And going and getting a marker.
1142
00:56:21,015 --> 00:56:23,235
When you know you're already
down, you should walk away.
1143
00:56:23,235 --> 00:56:23,475
Yeah.
1144
00:56:23,535 --> 00:56:25,065
But you still go get a marker.
1145
00:56:25,365 --> 00:56:26,385
That's how they play it.
1146
00:56:26,685 --> 00:56:27,555
And that's the mindset.
1147
00:56:27,555 --> 00:56:30,195
Look, we've taken your money
and if you want a shot at
1148
00:56:30,195 --> 00:56:31,665
getting it back, give us more.
1149
00:56:32,445 --> 00:56:33,135
Oh my gosh.
1150
00:56:33,285 --> 00:56:36,435
And then the other scam that
comes in even later is that the
1151
00:56:36,435 --> 00:56:38,475
people who come at you and say.
1152
00:56:39,270 --> 00:56:40,259
We're professionals.
1153
00:56:40,350 --> 00:56:41,700
We can track your money.
1154
00:56:41,700 --> 00:56:43,020
We can get it all back.
1155
00:56:43,110 --> 00:56:44,220
Now, who are these people?
1156
00:56:44,220 --> 00:56:47,190
Because you mentioned that in the
email to me and I'm like, wait, what?
1157
00:56:47,549 --> 00:56:49,200
Are they connected to this or not?
1158
00:56:49,290 --> 00:56:50,580
No, they're separate scammers.
1159
00:56:50,580 --> 00:56:54,270
They just see, they just troll the
Facebook, so the LinkedIns or whatever,
1160
00:56:54,270 --> 00:56:57,810
and they see that you're talking,
you're in a group about crypto loss,
1161
00:56:57,840 --> 00:56:59,220
and so they go in and they start.
1162
00:56:59,685 --> 00:57:01,484
Texting you, oh, we can
get your money back.
1163
00:57:01,484 --> 00:57:02,265
We're professionals.
1164
00:57:02,265 --> 00:57:04,154
We know this like the back of our hand.
1165
00:57:04,154 --> 00:57:07,395
We know exactly And you
could track your own.
1166
00:57:07,424 --> 00:57:08,205
You can track it.
1167
00:57:08,234 --> 00:57:10,634
I track my own money to, to where it was.
1168
00:57:10,634 --> 00:57:13,605
It's third world country,
you're not going to get it back.
1169
00:57:13,814 --> 00:57:17,174
In some instances, even some of
these people are held hostage.
1170
00:57:17,504 --> 00:57:19,335
They think they're going
for legitimate jobs.
1171
00:57:19,515 --> 00:57:21,165
There are multiple language users.
1172
00:57:21,165 --> 00:57:24,794
They get a job email for like
$50,000 in a different country,
1173
00:57:24,794 --> 00:57:26,024
which is a lot of money to them.
1174
00:57:26,355 --> 00:57:28,845
And they go and then they're
held hostage until they produce.
1175
00:57:28,904 --> 00:57:29,205
Yeah.
1176
00:57:29,205 --> 00:57:31,095
Enough money to be let go.
1177
00:57:31,245 --> 00:57:33,585
So it's, yeah, this is bad people, right?
1178
00:57:33,585 --> 00:57:34,395
Running these scams.
1179
00:57:34,424 --> 00:57:34,634
Right.
1180
00:57:34,634 --> 00:57:38,145
It's not like it's mom and pop shop
that's like, okay, we're just gonna
1181
00:57:38,145 --> 00:57:39,225
take money and that's the end of it.
1182
00:57:39,225 --> 00:57:43,875
No, that it's global and that's the scary
part, that it's global and nothing's
1183
00:57:43,875 --> 00:57:46,214
being done about it and it's unregulated.
1184
00:57:46,605 --> 00:57:48,585
So let's talk, I have
basically three last questions.
1185
00:57:48,585 --> 00:57:49,424
The first question is.
1186
00:57:49,935 --> 00:57:51,674
Why isn't anything being done?
1187
00:57:51,674 --> 00:57:56,024
If I've said this a bunch of times, if
you, if banks were being robbed all over
1188
00:57:56,024 --> 00:58:00,585
the United States, or people were being
strong, armed, robbed at their houses, we
1189
00:58:00,585 --> 00:58:02,384
would have law enforcement all over this.
1190
00:58:02,384 --> 00:58:05,984
Why do you think, as a former
law enforcement person, why
1191
00:58:05,984 --> 00:58:07,335
isn't anything being done?
1192
00:58:07,335 --> 00:58:10,964
It's billions of dollars being
lost because it's unregulated.
1193
00:58:11,234 --> 00:58:13,095
There's no, it's the wild west.
1194
00:58:13,154 --> 00:58:16,125
That's why crypto is, a lot
of people don't understand it.
1195
00:58:16,455 --> 00:58:19,665
And even when I thought I understood
it, I didn't understand it.
1196
00:58:19,754 --> 00:58:20,234
Right.
1197
00:58:20,234 --> 00:58:23,955
I understood the terminology,
understood how to set everything up.
1198
00:58:24,464 --> 00:58:30,375
It's one thing to buy Bitcoin and just
sit on a Bitcoin, but these are all within
1199
00:58:30,375 --> 00:58:36,345
the Coinbase crypto community of how to
make extra money by these transactions.
1200
00:58:36,585 --> 00:58:40,904
So again, that's why I say it's not
stopped by the company Coinbase, because
1201
00:58:40,904 --> 00:58:43,904
they're making money regardless of
whether you're sending it to somebody
1202
00:58:43,904 --> 00:58:45,254
legit or sending it to somebody.
1203
00:58:45,570 --> 00:58:48,720
Illegit, there's still a little
part of that transaction.
1204
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:50,190
They get paid regardless.
1205
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:54,660
So I don't believe that they wanna stop
that because that's their losing revenue.
1206
00:58:55,050 --> 00:58:58,530
And they would say that they are
doing things and they have statements.
1207
00:58:58,530 --> 00:59:04,350
They, again, I could send you the email
that I scathingly route and made them
1208
00:59:04,410 --> 00:59:09,990
well aware that they, I felt that they had
liability because they were doing nothing
1209
00:59:09,990 --> 00:59:14,430
After they, when I encouraged everybody
in my group to file police reports stuff,
1210
00:59:14,610 --> 00:59:18,360
when I went out to the police department,
it spent me two hours to try to explain
1211
00:59:19,230 --> 00:59:24,210
what was going on and, yeah, the crypt
and the crypto terminology, and then she
1212
00:59:24,210 --> 00:59:26,040
was looking at me like I was from an ele.
1213
00:59:26,130 --> 00:59:28,440
That's what Aaron West basically
said is that most people that go
1214
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:31,320
into law enforcement, they want
to go out and catch criminals.
1215
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:33,180
They want to get on the street
and catch people, right?
1216
00:59:33,180 --> 00:59:37,350
This is something that's done all
online, so you almost gotta hire
1217
00:59:37,350 --> 00:59:42,030
19-year-old hackers to deal with this
as opposed to law enforcement people.
1218
00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:42,930
Right.
1219
00:59:42,930 --> 00:59:48,960
It took the Washington Post to
hire legitimate people to ver you
1220
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:52,799
know, verify my story and others
and to start adding up the losses.
1221
00:59:52,799 --> 00:59:54,990
And that's why I said that was Janu.
1222
00:59:55,200 --> 01:00:00,270
My, my article came out April
of 2022, so this is a year and
1223
01:00:00,270 --> 01:00:02,849
four months later at 66 million.
1224
01:00:02,850 --> 01:00:04,020
And it was still going on.
1225
01:00:04,259 --> 01:00:08,910
But after the article was written,
Homeland Security did contact me.
1226
01:00:09,359 --> 01:00:09,750
Okay.
1227
01:00:09,870 --> 01:00:11,130
Because I was one of my complainants.
1228
01:00:11,130 --> 01:00:12,810
I filed FBI report.
1229
01:00:12,839 --> 01:00:14,370
I didn't hear back from anybody.
1230
01:00:14,370 --> 01:00:16,950
I filed a police report, I
didn't hear back from anybody.
1231
01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:22,470
My CPA was like, you can deduct
$3,000 for three years of your losses.
1232
01:00:22,470 --> 01:00:24,150
And that's the only recourse.
1233
01:00:24,390 --> 01:00:25,620
I used to be a actor.
1234
01:00:25,620 --> 01:00:27,660
I'd still do some projects here and there.
1235
01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:31,740
So I got onto the, that
platform and I was.
1236
01:00:32,595 --> 01:00:37,455
I had a lady in New York that had a
popular television show and I tried
1237
01:00:37,455 --> 01:00:40,935
to do a Netflix special from, like you
said, you're interviewing everybody.
1238
01:00:40,935 --> 01:00:45,045
I contacted the top 20 people who
had the most losses and I tried to
1239
01:00:45,045 --> 01:00:49,785
get her to do a Netflix and then
ultimately it, it got turned down it.
1240
01:00:49,785 --> 01:00:51,495
Then nobody wanted to take a flyer on it.
1241
01:00:51,855 --> 01:00:56,895
Good Morning, America called
within a day of me scheduling a
1242
01:00:56,895 --> 01:00:58,725
interview for Good Morning America.
1243
01:00:58,725 --> 01:01:00,195
After my article came out.
1244
01:01:00,705 --> 01:01:05,205
They called back and canceled me why
I think the powers a b don't, didn't
1245
01:01:05,205 --> 01:01:07,905
want to touch Coinbase and that entity.
1246
01:01:07,905 --> 01:01:10,815
Same thing with the Washington Post,
although they did a great article.
1247
01:01:11,325 --> 01:01:15,435
They were very, I don't know,
hands friendly with Coinbase
1248
01:01:15,435 --> 01:01:16,875
and their responsibilities.
1249
01:01:17,235 --> 01:01:21,525
So nobody wants their finger pointing
to go on at what's going on and to stop
1250
01:01:21,525 --> 01:01:25,545
it and it's unregulated so they can say,
oh, you're not breaking any laws, even
1251
01:01:25,545 --> 01:01:26,925
though you're stay ripping people off.
1252
01:01:27,855 --> 01:01:30,525
Well, I think that's one of the
problems too, is that you've got a moral
1253
01:01:30,915 --> 01:01:32,325
issue and you've got a legal issue.
1254
01:01:32,325 --> 01:01:32,415
Right.
1255
01:01:32,415 --> 01:01:33,285
The legal issue.
1256
01:01:33,585 --> 01:01:33,735
Yeah.
1257
01:01:33,735 --> 01:01:36,345
They probably aren't breaking
any laws and they're covered.
1258
01:01:36,465 --> 01:01:36,555
Right.
1259
01:01:36,555 --> 01:01:39,195
And they're not gonna get, you
can't get sued and they're not.
1260
01:01:39,405 --> 01:01:42,075
But there's also a moral
component to this, which is
1261
01:01:42,075 --> 01:01:45,255
that PGH family lost $80,000.
1262
01:01:45,285 --> 01:01:48,825
Now let's talk about
the psychology of this.
1263
01:01:49,095 --> 01:01:50,265
You lose this money.
1264
01:01:50,625 --> 01:01:53,535
What's it like for you
in the aftermath of this?
1265
01:01:53,535 --> 01:01:55,005
What's it been like for you?
1266
01:01:55,395 --> 01:01:56,265
Oh, guilt.
1267
01:01:57,075 --> 01:02:01,905
Like I said, in my whole life, I've been
the, I have eight brothers, three sisters.
1268
01:02:02,235 --> 01:02:03,435
I'm the law enforcement one.
1269
01:02:03,435 --> 01:02:05,685
I'm the one everybody always
came to with their problems.
1270
01:02:05,685 --> 01:02:07,335
I'm the problem solver in the family.
1271
01:02:07,785 --> 01:02:12,885
I was the one that reached out to my
ne nephew's brother and another nephew
1272
01:02:13,305 --> 01:02:16,755
to think I'm gonna helping them in life
by bringing a couple hundred hundred
1273
01:02:16,755 --> 01:02:19,515
dollars into their life at the end of
the, it's not big money, but I thought
1274
01:02:19,515 --> 01:02:20,865
it would be enough to help them.
1275
01:02:21,405 --> 01:02:21,735
Yeah.
1276
01:02:22,170 --> 01:02:26,220
So guilt for the people that
listened to me and trusted me.
1277
01:02:26,580 --> 01:02:30,120
My nephew was the one that kept saying,
look, you didn't do it maliciously.
1278
01:02:30,120 --> 01:02:31,380
You thought you were helping us.
1279
01:02:31,380 --> 01:02:32,850
We don't hold you accountable.
1280
01:02:32,910 --> 01:02:34,080
But I held myself accountable.
1281
01:02:34,529 --> 01:02:39,120
That's why I tried to go on the large
platforms and to make a voice, and I
1282
01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:43,950
really, it was a, when the Washington Post
reached out to me, it was like bearing
1283
01:02:43,950 --> 01:02:48,000
my soul because this is the biggest
black mark that happened in my life.
1284
01:02:48,330 --> 01:02:52,290
Like I said, I got a three page resume
and nothing like this has ever happened
1285
01:02:52,290 --> 01:02:57,690
because I felt that with my background
and I investigated hundreds of scams.
1286
01:02:57,695 --> 01:02:57,924
Mm-hmm.
1287
01:02:58,350 --> 01:03:03,060
Click this link and McAfee subscription
and all the other scams, or the way
1288
01:03:03,060 --> 01:03:06,150
I got a job for you on LinkedIn here,
click this link, go to WhatsApp.
1289
01:03:06,150 --> 01:03:09,720
Those are all ob, like I feel the
old, those are obvious red flags.
1290
01:03:10,290 --> 01:03:15,420
This in no way or shape had
a red flag until she started
1291
01:03:15,420 --> 01:03:17,910
asking me to significantly.
1292
01:03:18,480 --> 01:03:20,520
Get the money outta my home equity.
1293
01:03:20,549 --> 01:03:25,680
'cause like you said, they want
every single dollar that you own
1294
01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:27,270
or possibly can get ahold of.
1295
01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:31,470
They don't just want the 10 20
grand, they want deep, they want
1296
01:03:31,470 --> 01:03:33,600
to take you for everything and
they leave you with nothing.
1297
01:03:33,810 --> 01:03:37,710
And that's why like a friend, a
million dollars, he lost and committed
1298
01:03:37,710 --> 01:03:42,360
suicide and oh man, another police
officer in London committed suicide.
1299
01:03:42,570 --> 01:03:46,230
And these were people that I was talking
to and yeah, but they, once they realized
1300
01:03:46,470 --> 01:03:48,240
the money has gone and it takes a while.
1301
01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:53,100
Like the joint, the group Troy
that you mentioned, I know Troy
1302
01:03:53,100 --> 01:03:56,730
was very aggressive on, I am not
resting until I get my money back.
1303
01:03:57,240 --> 01:04:01,350
But me and law enforcement knowing
once it's gone, it's not coming back,
1304
01:04:01,710 --> 01:04:03,150
making other people aware of it.
1305
01:04:03,210 --> 01:04:05,880
It was the only thing that I felt
that I could do to help people.
1306
01:04:06,029 --> 01:04:09,420
So that, like I said, this
has been buried for me.
1307
01:04:09,450 --> 01:04:13,380
'cause once I had the mentality of,
okay, I'm done with it, I'm done with
1308
01:04:13,380 --> 01:04:17,370
crypto, and actually I'm retired now,
so I became a little bit of re recluse.
1309
01:04:18,060 --> 01:04:20,700
Because of this, I shut off social media.
1310
01:04:20,819 --> 01:04:25,319
I don't participate in a lot of things
that I used to because it's, I felt
1311
01:04:25,319 --> 01:04:29,700
that I made no difference once even
I tried to make a difference and
1312
01:04:29,970 --> 01:04:31,589
nobody was really paying attention.
1313
01:04:31,620 --> 01:04:35,220
Like the Homeland Security was
only because I brought it to
1314
01:04:35,220 --> 01:04:37,290
light that they actually called.
1315
01:04:37,560 --> 01:04:41,520
And then when I even asked them for
a follow-up report, no response.
1316
01:04:41,759 --> 01:04:45,240
The law enforcement piece of this
is tricky for sure, because I've
1317
01:04:45,390 --> 01:04:47,250
gone so far down this rabbit hole.
1318
01:04:47,490 --> 01:04:50,879
It's easy to want to point fingers and I
look at this and I could say, man, there
1319
01:04:50,879 --> 01:04:52,500
are a lot of people to blame for this.
1320
01:04:52,770 --> 01:04:57,120
There's criminals in Asia, there's, and
we should be working towards a solution.
1321
01:04:57,180 --> 01:04:59,399
But the bottom line, the
whole purpose of this show.
1322
01:05:00,149 --> 01:05:03,390
And I really, truly appreciate you
coming on and taking some time,
1323
01:05:03,689 --> 01:05:05,669
is to save Uncle Lou in Iowa.
1324
01:05:06,029 --> 01:05:10,290
If we could just save one person from
going down this, then we don't even
1325
01:05:10,290 --> 01:05:12,959
have to worry about law enforcement
or Coinbase or anybody else.
1326
01:05:13,290 --> 01:05:17,040
Whomever is responsible is
to stop it before it starts.
1327
01:05:17,310 --> 01:05:22,950
Pj, I appreciate you ripping the scab
off again and taking some time to talk
1328
01:05:22,950 --> 01:05:26,850
with us, because I do think that if we
can just get the word out, we're just one
1329
01:05:26,850 --> 01:05:29,879
podcast, one little company that's just
trying to, I'm sitting there thinking
1330
01:05:29,879 --> 01:05:33,270
to myself, I really hope Coinbase
doesn't sue us, but hey, you know what?
1331
01:05:33,600 --> 01:05:36,299
If I report the truth and
we just interview people,
1332
01:05:36,299 --> 01:05:37,350
then that's all we can do.
1333
01:05:37,589 --> 01:05:42,120
I see articles like in The New York
Times, I've emailed the writer of that
1334
01:05:42,120 --> 01:05:44,759
saying, look, this is still going on.
1335
01:05:44,759 --> 01:05:45,720
It's still prevalent.
1336
01:05:45,750 --> 01:05:46,470
Nobody cares.
1337
01:05:46,470 --> 01:05:46,529
Yeah.
1338
01:05:46,529 --> 01:05:49,799
Like I said, good Morning
America and shows like that.
1339
01:05:49,799 --> 01:05:52,670
I. Need to have people really address it.
1340
01:05:52,790 --> 01:05:53,960
They want a solution too.
1341
01:05:53,960 --> 01:05:56,390
And there's no solution to
this at this point, and it's
1342
01:05:56,390 --> 01:05:58,190
a very complicated solution.
1343
01:05:58,250 --> 01:05:58,790
I agree with you.
1344
01:05:58,790 --> 01:06:01,610
There was an article in The Economist,
but who's reading The Economist?
1345
01:06:01,700 --> 01:06:01,790
Mm-hmm.
1346
01:06:02,030 --> 01:06:06,620
This needs to be in local newspapers
around the country so that people, the
1347
01:06:06,620 --> 01:06:10,010
average American who's not spending
all their time reading the Washington
1348
01:06:10,010 --> 01:06:14,300
Post or the New York Times can get
a sense of, hey, this is out there.
1349
01:06:14,300 --> 01:06:17,840
When you click on your
computer, you are in danger.
1350
01:06:17,960 --> 01:06:19,100
It's that simple.
1351
01:06:19,160 --> 01:06:19,250
Right?
1352
01:06:19,250 --> 01:06:20,360
And people don't get that.
1353
01:06:20,360 --> 01:06:23,570
And when you're on an app of
any kind, you are in danger.
1354
01:06:23,840 --> 01:06:28,085
If you've said to somebody, you've been
in law enforcement for a long time, New
1355
01:06:28,085 --> 01:06:31,100
York City in the early eighties, late
seventies was a pretty rough place.
1356
01:06:31,100 --> 01:06:34,010
And if you said to somebody, Hey,
do not walk down this street after
1357
01:06:34,010 --> 01:06:36,110
eight o'clock at night, people
would be like, oh, I get that.
1358
01:06:36,110 --> 01:06:37,100
I'm not gonna walk down the street.
1359
01:06:37,160 --> 01:06:40,130
In a sense, your computer's walking
down that dangerous street right now.
1360
01:06:40,130 --> 01:06:42,080
So we're just trying to get the word out.
1361
01:06:42,525 --> 01:06:42,735
Yeah.
1362
01:06:42,915 --> 01:06:46,245
Every time anybody asks you to go to
the bank, start doing withdrawals,
1363
01:06:46,245 --> 01:06:51,225
start sending large amounts of money
anywhere, you know that those are Yeah.
1364
01:06:51,465 --> 01:06:54,255
Definitely red flags that need
to, people need to be aware of.
1365
01:06:54,615 --> 01:06:59,235
And even if it's small amounts, once
you, once they have your ear, they, these
1366
01:06:59,235 --> 01:07:05,505
people look good and they will convince
you that you're gonna make money and they,
1367
01:07:05,505 --> 01:07:08,175
and on the apps you can, everything's ai.
1368
01:07:08,175 --> 01:07:10,695
It's a little bit, uh, easier to
explain to people now because they,
1369
01:07:10,995 --> 01:07:15,435
like my friend recently got scammed
and I said, look, I can go on, AI
1370
01:07:15,435 --> 01:07:19,690
can create a website in 20 minutes
that looks legit, but it's not legit.
1371
01:07:19,690 --> 01:07:19,890
Mm-hmm.
1372
01:07:19,970 --> 01:07:20,415
You know what I mean?
1373
01:07:20,415 --> 01:07:23,654
It shows you a fake bank account
number with these numbers.
1374
01:07:23,775 --> 01:07:28,065
The thing that got me was that
I saw it all within the Coinbase
1375
01:07:28,065 --> 01:07:29,985
wallet and the Coinbase app.
1376
01:07:29,985 --> 01:07:30,075
Mm-hmm.
1377
01:07:30,315 --> 01:07:31,755
Which made me believe that it was real.
1378
01:07:32,620 --> 01:07:35,265
It wasn't a third party app
or wasn't anything else.
1379
01:07:36,285 --> 01:07:38,055
Thank you, PJ, for taking the time.
1380
01:07:38,115 --> 01:07:39,134
I really appreciate it.
1381
01:07:39,134 --> 01:07:40,845
I hope that this.
1382
01:07:41,325 --> 01:07:44,505
Maybe draws the last chapter
of a long story for you.
1383
01:07:44,505 --> 01:07:45,825
I wish you the best of luck.
1384
01:07:45,825 --> 01:07:47,265
Thank you so much for taking the time.
1385
01:07:47,445 --> 01:07:48,345
We'll do the best we can.
1386
01:07:48,495 --> 01:07:51,404
Yeah, that's all we can do, and
thank you for bringing light to this.
1387
01:07:51,404 --> 01:07:54,825
I think that there was a lot more
people like you, like yourself that
1388
01:07:54,825 --> 01:07:56,865
actually brought this to attention.
1389
01:07:56,985 --> 01:07:59,355
Then you know, it would, like you
said, it wouldn't be as prevalent.
1390
01:07:59,835 --> 01:08:01,275
All right, pj, have a great day.
1391
01:08:01,485 --> 01:08:02,505
Thanks again for everything.
1392
01:08:02,505 --> 01:08:03,105
Thanks for having me.