Dissecting The Pitt With Tara Edwards

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Unknown: Welcome to side by side, a
podcast where I Robert Kuang take you
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inside conversations with artists,
creatives, healers and warriors taking the
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charge in their transformational story.
Today's returning guest is writer, editor
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and my dear friend, Tara Edwards. In this
episode, we dive inside the hit television
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medical drama The Pit and analyze the
storytelling elements that make the show
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one of the television breakout hits of
2025 you can find more side by side
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episodes at side by side
podcast.podbean.com, and if you're working
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on a purpose driven writing project, I've
opened a few one on one coaching spots
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this season. You can learn more or book a
discovery call at WWW dot Robert Kuang
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home.com, okay, so two fans of medical
dramas are back, although I feel like you
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are a bigger medical drama fan. I'm just
more definitely,
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Tara Edwards: yeah, definitely. I think
you're a grays fan. And I'm a if it
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involves doctors, I've probably seen some
of it, though, ironically, I've not seen
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scrubs. I don't like comedy. You
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Robert Kuang: know, that's your one blind
spot is like, you probably haven't seen
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scrubs, which I know is like people talk
about, and then there's that new sitcom,
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but you're not a half hour person, and
that's okay.
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Tara Edwards: Yeah, I really am not,
unless it's anime. Um,
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Robert Kuang: so we are here to talk about
a new medical drama that I think a lot of
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people it's gotten really popular, since
it's being running from week to week, and
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it's called the pit, and I think many
listeners probably have heard about it. We
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do this thing, Tara and I, where, if our
schedule permits, we watch something like
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Grey's Anatomy once a week or so. And the
pit was sort of the latest one that you
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pitched to me to be like, do you want to
check this out? I mean, we, I know we both
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did, but I got so hooked into it in a way
that I wasn't expecting. So I wanted to
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talk about it. But you were like, Yeah,
this is gonna be good. Well,
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Tara Edwards: yeah. I mean, as as an OG
Noah Wiley fan, I was like, Oh, I'm on
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board. And then the pilot was so good. So
it just made sense to me,
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Robert Kuang: the pilot was very good,
which we'll get to. But maybe a little bit
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of background. Noah Wiley is an actor
famously known from er and the pick kind
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of has, like a relationship to ER. I don't
know if you want to, kind of like discuss
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it real quick. It's
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Tara Edwards: really just that Noah Wiley
was on both shows because technically, er
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is suing. There is like a lawsuit
situation between er and the pit. So they
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want
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Robert Kuang: some of that money. They
want some of that money. Yeah,
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Tara Edwards: personally, I feel like the
shows couldn't really be more different,
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other than taking place in the emergency
room, because that's one thing I think you
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immediately were kind of getting your beer
ins around because you came from grays,
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which is focused on surgical interns and
surgery department, whereas, er, kind of
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is a mix of all departments and how they
relate to emergency services. So yeah, the
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Robert Kuang: show doesn't hold your hand
with that, and I appreciate it. But what
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happened was, like, early on, I really had
to, like, work fast to get my bearings
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straight. Well, you were like, yep, home
sweet home the ER department, you know
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what I mean. And you were more ingrained
into what was happening. Yeah, Noah Wiley
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is kind of like, I think he may. He's
probably like an executive producer, or at
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least co producer, but he's really like
leading this production, and he has this
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message about why he did it after, like,
having a long acting hiatus, I believe he
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came back, he said, particularly after the
pandemic, and seeing what hospitals and
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nurses and doctors had to go through, and
they wanted to make a show in response,
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and Maybe also, like a little bit of a PSA
for how the medical professionals are
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doing the past few years. So I think
that's kind of cool personally,
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Tara Edwards: sort of Og Noah Wiley fans
also remember that he is the bad guy in
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enough that is besties with the abusive
husband. I forgot
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Robert Kuang: about that, and I was like,
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Tara Edwards: J Lo in that truck, and also
teaches the little girl how to play
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basketball. It's absolutely insane that I
remember that. Yeah,
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Robert Kuang: I don't want to imagine him
playing bad guys. I just want Noah Wiley
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brooding hero trying to do the right
thing, kind of person, like, he's got
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range, but like, here he's He's so good.
So in your opinion, why do you think the
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pit has been kind of described as
something that's very subversive for like
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the traditional medical drama, like
procedurals? Well,
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Tara Edwards: one thing I will say
immediately is that it. It does not lean
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into melodrama at all. I think that, and
this is kind of Gray's Anatomy as like a
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sort of cultural impact moment is that
gray has made people get used to seeing
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like, feel good, medical stories like you
can probably count on maybe two hands,
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maybe three hands of like, absolutely
devastating patient stories where the
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patient actually died in grays, whereas I
feel like in the PIDs, it really is a we
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have no idea what's going to happen to
this patient, whether they make it through
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their time in the ER, I can see this also
in Chicago Med as well. That's also very
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melodramatic, and the resident is also
pretty good, but I would but basically, I
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would say it's leaning harshly away from
melodrama and the sense of like, oh, it's
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such a sweet, heartwarming, heartfelt
story of like, people struggling with
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these things, and you can feel good at the
end, like it's very much like, this is
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reality. This is America. This is how bad
it is. You must look into the void.
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Robert Kuang: Yeah, reality check, I think
is a good way to describe this show, as
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opposed to, like, other forms of medical
dramas, and also, like, you know, police
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legal procedurals as well. It's not that
they don't have, like, really heavy
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storylines, but they tend to have still an
element of wish fulfillment. And also,
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like aspiration, like it's meant to be
inspirational in some way. This show is
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like, look, doctors and nurses are
struggling, and there are serious problems
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that needs to be addressed, and it's
gotten 10 times 100 times worse since 2020
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and so there's like this weird urgency
with this show, where they were like, we
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have something to say. You just sort of
feel that from the get go. Yeah,
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Tara Edwards: it's kind of hyper realistic
in that way that a lot of post 911 media
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was not I'm sure that your partner has
many thoughts about like media analysis of
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like post 911 but if you're talking about
the sort of media landscape of post COVID,
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I think This is kind of one of the first
pieces of media that I felt did not try to
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bootstrap slash, melodrama, catharsis its
way through. I think is a very hyper
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realistic view of everything. And I'm
probably just going to keep repeating that
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word, hyper realistic, because one thing
that a lot of doctors themselves and also
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medical professionals are just finding
themselves saying is that this show is one
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of the most realistic depictions you've
ever seen. Chest compressions actually
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look painful, and you realize like, oh,
you know if you are technically breaking
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ribs a lot of the times because of how
intense chest compressions are. And, you
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know, they actually had a lot of training
as actors to look and feel the part, as
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opposed to like something like grays,
where, you know, when they're rehearsing,
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they do say things like medical, medical,
instead of the actual terminology, yeah,
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Robert Kuang: it was a shortcut they
developed just to be like, This is where
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medical stuff needs to put in. But the
storyline is really like, are they going
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to get together or not? This is very
great. And like, the patients are meant
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to, like, be a metaphor for the what the
doctors are going through. This is not
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quite like that. And there are a couple
other like elements that make it unique to
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me. It's a 15 episode season, and it goes
through what I what I think most people
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consider the 24 structure, which is one
episode is one hour, quote, unquote, in
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real time, and every episode is an hour
inside of a 15 hour shift at the emergency
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room, like trauma center. At first, I
wasn't sure how I was going to feel about
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it, because I don't have any strong
feelings with that structure. And I've
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seen parts of 24 I didn't really see the
connection. There's that kind of, like, a
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little bit of, like, gritty realism to it,
but it really seemed to work. I remember,
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like, a couple episodes in I was like, Oh
my God, by the end of this season, like,
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they're just gonna be like, see you
tomorrow, because everything you saw was
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just one day.
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Tara Edwards: Spoiler alert, we're
probably gonna start getting to more
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specific spoilers. Yeah, actually crazy to
re watch the pilot, because at the
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beginning of the episode of the pilot,
she's Dr Collins is talking about her
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pregnancy system symptoms, and then you
realize, oh, in five hours, she won't have
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a baby anymore.
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Robert Kuang: Spoiler alert, but that
sounds melodramatic, if you like, pitch
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it, but they did it in a way that I think
was just dramatically motivated, but also
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felt super great. Of just like, oh, yeah,
by the way. Like, women sometimes have,
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like, miscarriages and they have to show
up to work, yeah,
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Tara Edwards: or they have to stay at work
and have to work through whatever is going
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on. You know, like, if I had to say there
was a similarity between, er, it's really
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those social, cultural moments. Like, I
know that grace has had its like issue
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episodes, especially recently with both
the COVID season and also all of the
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issues related to women's health and
abortion rights. But I feel like the thing
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that is sort of the pits calling to ER is
that er had a lot of like social cultural
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commentary about poverty and race
relations, everyone has to use the ER.
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There's no like, back door way out of
like, having to interact with your
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preferred cultural group if you need to
use emergency department in a hospital.
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Like, obviously, there are, you know,
hospitals that are considered to be a
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little bit more, you know, used by rich
people, and they can, they have access to
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things that other people don't. But you
know, if you get into a car crash and
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you're unconscious, you're going to the
ER, and you're going to wake up there, and
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you can't control that outcome.
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Robert Kuang: The episode structure worked
really well for me in terms of just
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because it's so like, what you see is what
you get, and they space it out. You know,
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normies, like me or like us can really
take in just how much these doctors and
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nurses have to deal with in a way that
feels very different from like Grey's
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Anatomy, where you're not really seeing
you're not seeing them working from day to
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day in this way. And time passes very
arbitrarily on other medical dramas as
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well. And this one is just like these
characters will not get a break, and you
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know it, no matter what they have to face,
which is like a lot. And I think that's
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why I like the structure for
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Tara Edwards: sure. That hyper realism
aspect really comes across when you do
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this sort of hour by hour structure,
because the audience doesn't get a break
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either. And this is not to say that the
show is like super oppressive and makes
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you tired experiencing it. I think the
show is still quite balanced. It does it,
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does it in a way that I, I personally
really appreciate. Because I think reality
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is always so much more interesting to me
when it's, you know, put in this like
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space of trauma where you can experience
something you maybe never thought about,
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right? It's like, I know we're in the era
of escapism, especially with the economy
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going the way that it's going to go so or
is going. So I know everyone is looking
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for their next sort of fantasy escape, or,
you know, sci fi escape, but I personally
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always feel very attached to these sort of
hyper realistic views, because they are
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the kind of cultural study you can't
really get elsewhere. You know, like the
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pit kind of epitomizes that idea of like
TV is a way for society to learn about
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itself in a lot of ways. Yeah,
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Robert Kuang: and it's kind of a luxury to
be able to sit with these characters,
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because that's the other thing with like,
I think movies can do that for sure,
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especially franchises where you get super
attached to the characters, despite the
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show not being very melodramatic and
frilly with, like, juicy character
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moments. You know what? I mean, it's just
all taking place on the in the ER center,
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there are some very endearing moments. And
like, by the end, fans were like, I'm Team
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this person. This is my favorite. And
like, people were really rooting for these
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characters. But it's not like they had to
do anything special besides just showing
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them working and having their character
inform their decisions. Yeah,
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Tara Edwards: it's like the, I guess,
cliched statement that you hear in like
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writing school, the more specific a
character becomes, the more universal they
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become. And I think that happens in the
pit where there there's something for
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everyone, there's like, across the board,
generational, uh, representation, because
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Noah Wiley is obviously Gen X, like early
gen X. Okay, he's early gen x because he
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was, he was born in like, 71 Listen,
listen, listen, I have,
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Robert Kuang: I have to remember around
for a while,
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Tara Edwards: I and I, and we're all so
that also doesn't help, because we're
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millennials. Are now entering our 40s. So,
yeah, as a group. So you get that Gen X
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era area, and then you get Gen Z as these
newbie like doctors. And then you also get
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all kinds of patients. You know, you get
elderly patients. So, you know, as boomers
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continue to age and Like. Aging care is
like, important plot that is explored
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through a lot of patients in this show.
And then you also get kids like, Yeah, you
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get to see like, their experience of like,
dealing with these things.
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Robert Kuang: We make this show sound
maybe a little bit graphic, and I don't
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know how to describe it. It's not that
it's like a horror movie or gory. It's
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just showing what doctors have to deal
with. Yeah, it's
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Tara Edwards: definitely not excessive
gore. It's not like you're watching a saw
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film. It's basically like you said what
would happen if you were a doctor. These
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are the things that you would see. These
are the injuries you would be exposed to,
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and
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Robert Kuang: they just show what these
people had to deal with, particularly at
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the start of this season. Kind of a common
trope, I will say, for medical dramas, is
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like the first day, the first shift for a
group of like young intern or student
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doctors. They barely spend any time
establishing that before you just have to
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quickly get to see all of the characters.
They briefly introduce their backgrounds,
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which will come into play throughout the
season, and then it just, like, gets into
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it. They just, like, start working. Do you
want to get into some of the character?
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Maybe, like character analysis
discussions.
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Tara Edwards: I know a big thing for
millennials is burnout, working yourself
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to death, which is in contrast to, like,
say, silent Gen slash boomers, where it
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was very much like, work is your identity,
therefore? Who are you without work?
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Whereas, like now with millennials, we're
really starting to analyze like, how can
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you possibly be work? How can that
represent yourself if it's also silently
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killing you? And we really see that in the
character arc of Noah Wiley's character,
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Dr Robbie, who is essentially burning out.
He's gone through the trauma of COVID 19,
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which I still think as a society, we have
still not yet begun to truly grasp the
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effects of that. Then also just the
burnout of emotional labor. I know that
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became like a pop side term everything is
emotional labor. But if we're talking
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about doctors and nurses, they're truly
doing the kind of worst kind of emotional
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labor, because as Dr Robbie experiences,
sometimes that means being on the
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receiving end of a lot of hatred and
agitation that has nothing to do with you,
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which is very much the service industry in
a nutshell, which is what emotional labor
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came from. But like, I think you said it
in the last episode, no, while he's
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getting that in me,
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Robert Kuang: yeah. I mean, oh, and
quickly I did forget this one point. There
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are some doctors, student doctors, who are
starting their first shift at the pilot.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, because I haven't
re watched the season. So it's been a
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minute since I've seen the earlier
episodes. But he sort of like, this is his
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like, first official shift, trying to,
like, recalibrate.
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Tara Edwards: Yeah. I think, I think the
implication is that he had a little break
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because of an experience with losing his
mentor during the COVID 19 pandemic, and
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Robert Kuang: he had to treat his mentor
specifically, yes, yeah. And and lost his
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mentor, and he's coming back in the show.
He's the head attending of the ER and he
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oversees the entire, like, emergency
department. And yeah, you really get to
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explore burnout PTSD,
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Tara Edwards: just like severe emotional
labor. Because not only is part of being a
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doctor having to serve as patients, but
you're also, if you're a senior doctor. In
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his case, you have to do with the
emotional labor and service of the people
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underneath you, and with everyone coming
to you for these things, you can see how
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easily one might find oneself having a
breakdown mid shift. I definitely saw
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myself in him, because I have many moments
during one of my most stressful jobs,
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which was reporting hard news, where,
like, I'm tired and I can't take this
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anymore,
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Robert Kuang: just like the heaviness of
what you're doing and what you're in
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proximity to. So I think a lot of doctors
probably relate to that. I think burnout
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and certain other issues are quite common
for doctors and medical professionals, and
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they definitely go into that, starting
with Dr Robbie, you know, and Noah Wiley.
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Me not knowing too much about him. I mean,
he is so everyone's daddy issues are
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coming up with this. Oh, I was like,
Y'all, he is not MC steamy over here. Look
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at the man. He's crumbling before our
eyes. But I get it, you know.
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Tara Edwards: And to me, I think, is a
sign also, of where we've come as a
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society, right? Is like when you're in the
2000s everyone you know wants that sort of
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dream. Perfect. Dr McDreamy, like, you
know, perfect hair and just, you know,
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this perfectness, whereas, like now, we're
much more attracted to and emotionally
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attached to the fragile, like the
fragility, and also, just like masculinity
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that didn't need to be overly aggressive,
which that does come up because one of the
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main plots of the first season is a mass
shooting that is thought to have been
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completed by a patient son who had
expressed some very dark thoughts in a, I
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guess, diary slash notebook about women.
Noah Wiley's attractiveness as a
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character, or doctor Robbie attractiveness
as a character, kind of also says where we
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are as a society in terms of, like, how we
view what is attractive about men and
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it's, it's this kind of, like, less Macho.
I'm a neurosurgeon. I, you know, do risky
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surgeries and come out on top. And it's
more so like he's not gonna make it. He's
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having the worst day of his life.
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Robert Kuang: He's not. And the show
challenges him as well. I mean, through,
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you know, different characters challenging
his point of view and him actually like
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getting checked here and there. And you
know, with regards to the INCEL storyline,
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the the teenager, the teenage boy,
obviously the storyline brings up a lot of
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discomfort. And I'm just like, where is
this going? Like, what is the message
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here? But at the end, I appreciated the
fact that Dr Robbie Noah Wiley's character
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refused to dehumanize his boy, despite the
clear indications that he is he could be a
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threat, he could be a danger. And the show
did? I feel like both did not, um, shy
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away from INCEL culture and some of the
things that's brewing, especially with the
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younger population, but I did feel like
they dealt with this issue that could have
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been extremely, like black and white and
extreme in a way that ultimately was like
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everyone is trying to reflect humanity to
each other. That's a tough needle to
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thread. Like I would not feel comfortable
tackling a INCEL storyline very easily.
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And I feel like they did a proper job of
that. Ultimately,
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Tara Edwards: yeah, and I think what made
it so successful is that you had him and
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Dr McKay sort of butting heads over. Well,
what to do about this kid? Essentially,
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because you have a woman who is, you know,
fiercely protective of women, fiercely
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protective of patients, fiercely
protective of, you know, those who need
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protection, and then you have someone who
is a man, an older man, and can understand
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the the ideology of like a teenage boy,
much better than her. So I think because
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we got those conflict between those two
characters, I think it allowed for that
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humanity to be shown because we got,
rather than everybody banding up against
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this kid, we got, you know, Hey, there.
This is like a real person's life that is
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going to be deeply changed by being
introduced into the system and the
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carceral state. I liked how the show
incorporated that aspect as well. A lot of
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people don't realize how unfortunately
involved police and the carceral state are
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involved in hospitals these days.
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Robert Kuang: Yeah, once they brought, I
mean, they had the police and also just
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security guards, you know in general, were
throughout the entire season, obviously at
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an ER center. But once the mass shooting
storyline developed in the second half of
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the season, the proximity to police to
like, I think they had, like, tactical
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units, like the military came like, this
is their place of work. You know, people
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have to go through so much, especially on
days when there's an emergency like this,
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which is not super melodramatic, you know?
And that's the other thing was, like it
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felt it could have been kind of like the
event of the season, so to speak, which is
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kind of a medical drama trope, yeah,
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Tara Edwards: it's like mass shooting,
mass casualty events, yeah, yeah. But it
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was interesting to see doctors from other
countries react to that, because it is an
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American only symptom. We are the only
country in the entire world that has this
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mini mass shootings. So it was interesting
to see that perspective. And just to
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circle back to talking about Dr McKay and
the carceral state. Dr McKay has a ankle
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bracelet on that becomes a problem. It
keeps going off, and then the cops come to
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arrest her, because in order to do her job
properly, she had to disable it. I
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Robert Kuang: was like, that ankle
monitor, something's gonna happen. You
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know,
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Tara Edwards: it's like, mind you. Dr
McKay comes off as this very sweet, non
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threatening. A white woman, yeah, it's
like, it's a nice little subversion,
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right? That the sort of toxic baby mom
character who has issues with her father's
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child, yeah, is a white woman who has an
ankle monitor.
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Robert Kuang: It's like, in the kitchen, I
think, waiting for half part of her shift.
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And just like she's an interesting
character, I really found her endearing.
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And her backstory, like you said, is that
she kind of had a rough, like, earlier
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life, and has, like, done some things that
she regrets, made some mistakes, kind of a
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colorful history with her ex, and, like,
sheer custody, and then comes in, like the
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ankle monitor, assuming there was some
sort of like incident with all of that,
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but they do set that up pretty early in
the season, where Dr Robbie shots off the
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machines, the heart monitors that are
beeping because it's so like, over
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stimulating for patients, families and for
the doctors too. When her ankle monitor
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started malfunctioning and wouldn't stop
beeping, I was like, Oh, here we go. And I
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thought for sure that was gonna be how her
season ended. It's
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Tara Edwards: like, oh, she, she's, she's
going to jail. You know what's funny? I
315
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just thought about it. Maybe it wasn't
malfunctioning. Maybe the reason why I
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kept going off is because she was still at
work when she was supposed to have left
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the hospital.
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Robert Kuang: Oh, maybe some like, yeah,
you meet the ex and stuff, they show up in
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the hospital once that got taken care of.
I wasn't sure what was happening with
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that, so who knows. But then again, this
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Tara Edwards: just goes back to how
oppressive the carceral state is. Because
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Why are we in a situation where doing
overtime during a mass casualty events,
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where she, like clear is saving human
lives. And like, fucking cops, bro. Like,
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I
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Robert Kuang: felt like this is slightly
unbelievable still, like, she doesn't get
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arrested at the end, after she after the
mass casualty incident, kind of like, dies
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down, the cops come and they try to arrest
her. And the only reason they don't is
328
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number one, I think the two cops superior
was there, one of their cops got shot, and
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so she, like, saved a cop's life. And I
think that's the only reason they said,
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we'll let you, will not arrest you. Yeah,
we'll let you work this out tomorrow. I
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was like, she's still gonna get arrested.
I
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Tara Edwards: think that's believable,
because she's white. I think if she was
333
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any other race, and also, if it wasn't
coming from another white man, because,
334
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remember, it was Dr Robbie talking to the
cops about what she had just done. Like, I
335
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think it was enough circumstances to where
I'm like, Okay. And you also remember,
336
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like the town slash like the city is very
much its own cultural aspect in going into
337
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that as well. So I
338
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Robert Kuang: Pittsburgh, yeah, it's only
got some of that I don't know for some
339
00:27:48,460 --> 00:27:55,240
reason, the rats. I was like, That's Pitt,
yeah. Shout
340
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,060
Tara Edwards: out to the rats, the unsung
heroes,
341
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Robert Kuang: guys. That was a cultural
moment. No white person reacted like their
342
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world was ending when rats were running
around. But every person of color was
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like, I can save lives. I refuse to face a
rat. It was so good. I love that. Anyway.
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Dr McKay, I like her personally, and she's
similar to, I would say, I'll introduce
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another character. Dr Santos, she's one of
the student doctors that shows up on her
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first shift there, and they're both like
characters I would describe as they're
347
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very driven by trying to save people who
fall through the system or fall through
348
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the cracks. Would you agree with that? For
349
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Tara Edwards: sure? I think Dr Santos, it
like specifically, seems to be a character
350
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that is the stereotype of what you imagine
somebody who says, I'm going to become a
351
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doctor when I grow up, and then they
actually do it. She gives those vibes from
352
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the moment she's there, and then over the
course of the season, it's you realize,
353
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like, Oh, something happened to you.
You're you're working something out there,
354
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trauma survivors often tend to supplement
their experience by finding some way of
355
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service to other survivors or other people
who have been victimized. So like it
356
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Robert Kuang: changes the narrative for
them, right? Yeah, of what could have been
357
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Yeah, and they didn't. I hope they explore
that more in season two, because obviously
358
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she reveals her backstory, but not to any
of the doctors, which, again, is hyper
359
00:29:27,020 --> 00:29:31,280
realistic. You don't want to be revealing
that on your first shift. But we do get a
360
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moment where we understand that she is a
survivor of sexual abuse, of child abuse,
361
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like once they introduced that element. I
felt like the character. I understood her.
362
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She's never going to be everyone's
favorite. She's kind of divisive, but I
363
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get her character, and also like her type
as like someone who wanted to pursue
364
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medicine, if that makes
365
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Tara Edwards: sense. I also think like I'm
kind of over the HEY. Discussion of
366
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whether a character is likable or not.
Yeah. I mean, we talk about characters we
367
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did and didn't like in Grey's Anatomy all
the time, just as, like, a sort of off the
368
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cuff, you know, yap session. But I think
when we were talking about, like, actually
369
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analyzing television and art, I don't care
if the character is likable or not. What I
370
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care is, is the character compelling? Are
they interesting? Do they keep me wanting
371
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to see what happens to them? And that is
100% the case in Santos is, Do I like her?
372
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I could go either way. I think I
appreciate her as representation of, you
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know, a trauma survivor working their shit
out. And, you know, also a compelling
374
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character, but I just also like, I think
her learning the hard way is something
375
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that I enjoy seeing in media, because I
feel like we're in the era of a lot of
376
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people learning the hard way. You didn't
want to learn the lesson when it was
377
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presented to you in a very nice, easy way.
So now you have to learn this the hard
378
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:12,960
way, and that's almost more compelling,
because you really get to see characters
379
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shine under pressure, or not make it at
all. I think one thing we talked about as
380
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we've been re watching grays is is that
warning from Richard in that original
381
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speech about how two people wouldn't even
make it through the program? I think a lot
382
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:32,540
of people miss that aspect when they're
like, Oh, my favorite character is like,
383
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gone. It's like, but she's also just like,
a bad doctor. Like, at some point we have
384
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to just accept, in reality, there are 100%
people who go into the medical profession
385
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who do not need to be there.
386
00:31:45,220 --> 00:31:50,020
Robert Kuang: That's interesting. Yeah,
no, I think Gray's being the one I'm most
387
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familiar with. They absolutely kept
doctors around because they were like, fan
388
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:59,380
favorites or likable, not based on, like,
how they were showing up at the hospital
389
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or how they were as surgeons, whereas here
I feel like they're very much just like,
390
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This is how a trauma survivor might
navigate this space once they get
391
00:32:08,100 --> 00:32:12,180
triggered, and also this is how they might
like keep things from the like their
392
00:32:12,180 --> 00:32:15,660
attendings and things like that. But also,
at the end of the day, this is how they
393
00:32:15,660 --> 00:32:19,560
might try to save lives. And it's super
complicated. She has a couple moments that
394
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:23,180
I know people felt were morally
questionable, breaking protocol, she
395
00:32:23,180 --> 00:32:28,520
defies authority, all of which can be kind
of like a bad karmic lesson coming maybe
396
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:33,080
in season two. Yeah, you know her strength
is that, because she's so hyper vigilant
397
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:37,700
and because she didn't grow up thinking
the world was rainbows, she has great
398
00:32:37,700 --> 00:32:42,820
instincts most of the time. She has really
good intuition, and that can make for a
399
00:32:42,820 --> 00:32:46,900
really valuable and good doctor. But yeah,
I think she's another complicated
400
00:32:46,900 --> 00:32:51,700
character, not unlike her counterpart for
this season, Dr Langdon.
401
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:57,880
Tara Edwards: Dr Langdon. My goodness. Dr
Langdon is a funny one, because I feel
402
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:04,020
like when you first see him, you kind of
get this feeling because he is kind of
403
00:33:04,020 --> 00:33:10,140
like the stereotypical, like, hot
dreaming, yeah, that he is going to be
404
00:33:10,140 --> 00:33:16,020
sold to you as such. But then immediately
you just get this, no, this guy's a piece
405
00:33:16,020 --> 00:33:19,680
of shit, actually, like, in a lot of ways,
406
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:23,540
Robert Kuang: I early on in the first
half, I found him really endearing,
407
00:33:23,540 --> 00:33:28,460
particularly when he was so he was good
with Dr King, right? With her
408
00:33:28,460 --> 00:33:32,420
neurodivergence, that was about it. I
think that was a one arc that really made
409
00:33:32,420 --> 00:33:37,160
him endear to the viewer. Everything else
was just like, Oh, he's like, kind of a
410
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:40,540
doctor that's constantly, like,
compensating for something, right? And
411
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:42,280
then you find
412
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:46,900
Tara Edwards: and it's just like, you
know, to me, I think this just goes back
413
00:33:46,900 --> 00:33:54,820
to that realism, because I feel like if
someone was to be like, show me a senior
414
00:33:54,820 --> 00:34:00,480
emergency medicine resident, they would
picture this guy, which is why I think
415
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:06,000
it's great that they ended up showing
like, you know, your perception of what
416
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:10,980
makes someone a good doctor, a competent
doctor, someone who's like, good at their
417
00:34:10,980 --> 00:34:18,960
job, visually is contrasted with reality.
That's always a good trope to see in TV
418
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:24,920
shows, because I feel like, as a society,
we really need to get out of the habit of
419
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,760
believing just because someone looks the
part, that they are the part, you know.
420
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:34,580
You look at Dr Langdon, you think, Oh,
he's the senior emergency resident because
421
00:34:34,580 --> 00:34:38,960
he's, you know, great. And then you
realize he's on drugs. Girl.
422
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:46,959
Robert Kuang: Dr Santo suspects that he
may have been stealing drugs from the ER
423
00:34:46,959 --> 00:34:52,419
and from patients and throughout like the
season. You're not sure if she's just
424
00:34:52,419 --> 00:34:57,519
like, got a thing against him because he
yelled at her and they had conflict, or if
425
00:34:57,519 --> 00:35:01,919
she her instincts are actually, I.
Correct. And I think they played with,
426
00:35:01,919 --> 00:35:06,359
like, likable doctors and unlikable
doctors, and also likable and unlikable
427
00:35:06,359 --> 00:35:10,919
patients too, right? Trying to play with
your expectations. And I personally like
428
00:35:10,919 --> 00:35:16,079
dramatically speaking, I love that,
because I really was like, I don't know. I
429
00:35:16,079 --> 00:35:20,839
really feel like I want Dr Santos to be
wrong, for obvious reasons. At the same
430
00:35:20,839 --> 00:35:25,759
time, Dr Langdon depicts an issue and has
struggled something that's extremely
431
00:35:25,759 --> 00:35:29,719
pervasive in the medical industry, which
is dealing with addiction, and it's a
432
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:33,799
difficult thing to talk about, because it
can come off like it's going to demonize
433
00:35:33,799 --> 00:35:38,719
the entire field, or everyone really. This
issue should be dealt with compassion. It
434
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:43,179
is treatable. It's a disease. This is,
like a theme that was pretty pervasive
435
00:35:43,179 --> 00:35:47,199
throughout the season, both in patients,
but also with Dr Langdon, who ended on a
436
00:35:47,199 --> 00:35:50,739
downer. I was rooting for you. I was like,
everyone's flaws, rooting
437
00:35:50,740 --> 00:35:55,300
Tara Edwards: for you. We're all rooting
for you. How dare you? No. So they play.
438
00:35:55,300 --> 00:36:02,160
That is Santos, right? So well and so,
because it's like, Girl, what are you
439
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,820
talking about? Some damn caps. You
couldn't get the cap off. Who cares?
440
00:36:05,819 --> 00:36:10,139
Robert Kuang: So annoyed with her. And I
was like, What are you on about? And once
441
00:36:10,139 --> 00:36:14,279
it actually played out, I was like, oh,
it's because I don't like her, yeah. But
442
00:36:14,339 --> 00:36:19,019
you should still follow a medical
professionals, like, suspicions. And they
443
00:36:19,019 --> 00:36:23,179
actually did do that. She, like, informed
her superiors or the head nurse, and,
444
00:36:23,179 --> 00:36:27,259
like, she tried to figure out the right
way to do it, but also was, like,
445
00:36:27,319 --> 00:36:31,459
triggered on her first day, you know,
trying to prove herself anyway. I just
446
00:36:31,459 --> 00:36:35,359
find that to be, like, super rich
storytelling and writing overall. Yeah,
447
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:41,440
Tara Edwards: it was really well done,
like, subversion of expectations, because
448
00:36:41,500 --> 00:36:46,360
you think this is going to be one of
those, like, men in power versus lowly
449
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:53,620
woman, like, low on the totem pole, having
to decide between go with, you know, the
450
00:36:53,860 --> 00:36:59,740
way things are, versus like, step out on a
limb to do what is morally correct. But
451
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:05,460
it's so much more nuanced than that,
because Santos actually has a background
452
00:37:05,580 --> 00:37:12,180
from working in a pain clinic, so she's
actually highly trained to notice drug
453
00:37:12,180 --> 00:37:13,860
seeking behaviors.
454
00:37:13,980 --> 00:37:17,520
Robert Kuang: I love that, that their
backstory and their training experience
455
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:22,280
actually inform all the characters.
Similarly, Dr King has, what did she do?
456
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,280
She worked in the military or something,
right? She worked at
457
00:37:25,279 --> 00:37:30,319
Tara Edwards: a VA hospital, yeah, thank
you. So she has a lot of experience with
458
00:37:30,319 --> 00:37:34,939
patient care and sort of patient
sensitivity, because she's worked with
459
00:37:34,939 --> 00:37:40,839
veterans before, which are a very lots of
PTSD, yeah, highly specialized group of
460
00:37:40,839 --> 00:37:46,719
patients with a lot of different issues.
So Darger King is also a fan favorite, and
461
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:53,019
it makes total sense, because she's just
so endearing and likable from the moment
462
00:37:53,019 --> 00:37:57,279
she starts like smiling and saying, I'm
really excited to be here, guys.
463
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,800
Robert Kuang: Me, it was when she went
outside just to take a Megan, the Sally,
464
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:03,840
and break Yes,
465
00:38:03,900 --> 00:38:09,720
Tara Edwards: so it's like, not clear if
she's on the spectrum or not, and
466
00:38:09,720 --> 00:38:13,440
Robert Kuang: she's undiagnosed, which is
interesting that they made that choice
467
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:18,060
that, like, her sister's diagnosed, but
she's sort of, like, not yet, maybe aware,
468
00:38:18,060 --> 00:38:21,500
and we don't want to, like, make that
decision for her. But I think that's
469
00:38:21,500 --> 00:38:24,500
fairly common. So I was like, that's
interesting. It's interesting.
470
00:38:24,500 --> 00:38:28,580
Tara Edwards: You bring that up about the
Undiagnosed aspect, because I think that
471
00:38:28,580 --> 00:38:34,340
is a little bit of a social cultural
commentary about how a lot of 20s and 30s
472
00:38:34,340 --> 00:38:42,160
adult women go long undiagnosed because
they are able to conform to society's
473
00:38:42,220 --> 00:38:48,820
rigorous standards of human behavior in a
way that boys or like men would not be
474
00:38:48,820 --> 00:38:53,800
subjected to that same standard, right?
It's like girls are expected to be a
475
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:58,780
little bit eccentric or whatever, or, you
know, in her case, she's super high
476
00:38:58,780 --> 00:39:05,220
functioning, so nobody would ever say a
little she's a little off. But I think the
477
00:39:05,220 --> 00:39:10,620
moment when she goes outside and comforts
herself with the Megan thee stallion song,
478
00:39:10,620 --> 00:39:14,640
it's very much like, if you've seen
autistic people, you know, oh, she's she's
479
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:15,480
stimming Girl.
480
00:39:18,659 --> 00:39:24,319
Robert Kuang: Girl, for a second, I love
her. She's so sweet. And, like, also, um,
481
00:39:24,319 --> 00:39:28,099
yeah, this er is particularly filled with,
like, skilled doctors, not that, like, I
482
00:39:28,099 --> 00:39:32,119
can't speak on this expertly, but like,
she was a great doctor, and they all had,
483
00:39:32,119 --> 00:39:35,899
like, their shining moments too. I felt
like every doctor and many of the nurses,
484
00:39:35,899 --> 00:39:39,319
I would like to say, as well, like, really
had their moments throughout the season to
485
00:39:39,319 --> 00:39:39,679
shine.
486
00:39:39,740 --> 00:39:45,100
Tara Edwards: I did see some criticisms
that, like, the only unrealistic thing
487
00:39:45,100 --> 00:39:50,980
about the pit is how competent everyone
seems. It's like they just which is so
488
00:39:50,980 --> 00:39:56,320
real when you think about a show like
Grace, where, like, people are getting
489
00:39:56,320 --> 00:40:00,120
fired, somebody is getting fired. Hey. If
490
00:40:01,019 --> 00:40:04,679
Robert Kuang: you want to see doctors
getting away with the most insane stunts,
491
00:40:04,679 --> 00:40:08,339
watch grace, please. That's really where
it's at. The
492
00:40:08,339 --> 00:40:13,559
Tara Edwards: doctors, even the newbies,
don't really make a ton of mistakes, like,
493
00:40:14,279 --> 00:40:19,679
even when they're drilled on, you know,
things, hey, not knowing the answer in
494
00:40:19,679 --> 00:40:22,759
that situation would have been totally
fine, because you're not, you know, in
495
00:40:22,759 --> 00:40:28,099
charge. It's still, they're all still very
competent, but poor Whitaker, yeah.
496
00:40:29,179 --> 00:40:36,799
Whitaker, by far, has the worst shift of
the new the student group. He is
497
00:40:36,799 --> 00:40:42,219
characterized as a sort of Midwestern farm
boy in the big city for the first time,
498
00:40:42,219 --> 00:40:49,539
very fresh out of water, or fish out of
water. Storyline, he gets peed on by a
499
00:40:49,839 --> 00:40:57,519
patient who is going through some kind of
like mental episode. He also ends up
500
00:40:57,699 --> 00:41:05,639
saving them for the rats, so you know. And
he has a incident with a patient that dies
501
00:41:05,639 --> 00:41:09,119
from heart complications that he didn't
catch in time.
502
00:41:09,179 --> 00:41:12,779
Robert Kuang: Oh, yeah. So another medical
trope, I mean, you know, it's bound to
503
00:41:12,779 --> 00:41:16,199
happen. Storyline wise, he was like the
guy on the first day, the first one to
504
00:41:16,199 --> 00:41:21,499
lose a patient, and all of that. Very
George O'Malley, but better,
505
00:41:22,100 --> 00:41:26,840
Tara Edwards: yes. So the thing we're
gonna talk about, like how to make a kind
506
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:32,960
of goofy character likable versus like, or
rather, not likable, but more compelling.
507
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:41,260
It's like George is the sort of like, hard
work, equal success guy in gray is it's
508
00:41:41,260 --> 00:41:46,240
like he underdog. Yeah, it's like, if you
just work hard enough, you'll get there
509
00:41:46,540 --> 00:41:53,380
and you'll make up for any sort of lack of
talent. But ultimately, what makes him
510
00:41:53,440 --> 00:42:01,620
uncompelling as a character is that there
is no like 3/3 dimension to that that
511
00:42:01,620 --> 00:42:06,420
becomes his entire like being the underdog
becomes his entire personality. It'll it
512
00:42:06,420 --> 00:42:11,160
allows him to absolve himself of
responsibility for so many situations,
513
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:16,020
which makes him uncompelling, because he
ends up not changing a lot. He's the same
514
00:42:16,020 --> 00:42:20,720
George that he is at the beginning of
season one, that he is by the time he gets
515
00:42:20,720 --> 00:42:26,300
hit by the bus, whereas, like, I feel like
Whitaker grows immensely in his first
516
00:42:26,300 --> 00:42:31,760
shift, going from like, kind of green and
sort of awkward and not really knowing
517
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:37,820
what's going on to being a lot more
confident and able and capable and, you
518
00:42:37,820 --> 00:42:41,200
know, believing in himself a lot more by
the end of the shift.
519
00:42:41,199 --> 00:42:44,499
Robert Kuang: I mean, they've already done
a better job, I think, characterizing all
520
00:42:44,499 --> 00:42:49,059
the doctors again in a way where it's just
like all between the medicine and what you
521
00:42:49,059 --> 00:42:54,279
see is what you get, just amazing skill in
terms of writing. But Whitaker, I think
522
00:42:54,339 --> 00:42:59,079
they introduced the fact that he probably
left an Amish community, and so culturally
523
00:42:59,079 --> 00:43:03,719
speaking, he is also navigating in a fish
out of water, or a fish out of water type
524
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:07,619
way, yeah, that I think is, like, very
endearing to him, and it makes the
525
00:43:07,619 --> 00:43:11,339
character, like, really interesting,
because he wants to pursue medicine. So,
526
00:43:11,339 --> 00:43:15,659
yeah, he's a, he's like, a kind of a
kooky, quirky character that I think is
527
00:43:15,659 --> 00:43:20,479
like endearing and that, like socially
awkward way, similar to Dr King. I want to
528
00:43:20,479 --> 00:43:24,139
get to the night shift eventually. But is
there any other like, day shift doctors
529
00:43:24,139 --> 00:43:28,399
you want to mention? Dr Mohan is amazing.
The women of color, there are a couple
530
00:43:28,399 --> 00:43:28,819
like
531
00:43:28,820 --> 00:43:34,640
Tara Edwards: Collins, Dr Mohan, just,
like, completely so competent, yeah, just
532
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:39,140
so good. Javadi. I think I want to mention
Javadi. And then I talk about nurse, Dana.
533
00:43:39,140 --> 00:43:44,920
Ooh, okay, yeah, Giovanni is, I think she
was really important for representation
534
00:43:44,980 --> 00:43:50,980
of, like, the precocious high achieving
adult who gets into or high achieving
535
00:43:50,980 --> 00:43:56,140
child who gets into an adult situation and
is forced to reconcile that, like, all
536
00:43:56,140 --> 00:44:01,500
that brain power does not equal, you know,
you know maturity, like, there are some
537
00:44:01,500 --> 00:44:07,020
things that are just going to take time. I
like that being something the show dives
538
00:44:07,020 --> 00:44:13,440
into, because it's definitely a cultural
phenomenon. Like, I do think a lot of kids
539
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:19,740
grow up, myself included, that their like
intelligence will get through through any
540
00:44:19,740 --> 00:44:26,600
situation only to realize, like, reality
check here, it's often not gonna work,
541
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:33,320
like the perfect simulation in your mind,
and yeah, we get to see her navigating,
542
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:38,960
like being 19 years old, in a job
dominated by people in their late 20s and
543
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:39,500
30s,
544
00:44:40,039 --> 00:44:45,519
Robert Kuang: between the three like first
day shift doctors, so Santos, Whitaker and
545
00:44:45,519 --> 00:44:50,079
Javadi. I think my favorite was probably
Javadi. She has that interesting. She's
546
00:44:50,079 --> 00:44:53,919
like the Nepo doctor, right? So that's
like, one thing that I think is fairly
547
00:44:53,919 --> 00:44:59,319
common for for lots of doctors and medical
families, but then, like, her mom works at
548
00:44:59,319 --> 00:45:02,819
the hospital. Which I think is very
interesting. And then my favorite part
549
00:45:02,819 --> 00:45:07,859
about her is seeing a character like her.
I think she's like, under 21 right? Yeah,
550
00:45:07,859 --> 00:45:12,659
she's 19. Yeah, she's 19. Crazy, a
teenager. Wow. I have to actually let
551
00:45:12,659 --> 00:45:16,499
myself sit with that for a second. But
think of everything she had to deal with
552
00:45:16,559 --> 00:45:20,099
on the other side, she's like, Baby, I
have a crush on a guy. Do you know what I
553
00:45:20,099 --> 00:45:24,559
mean? And she's like, a little girl, like,
yeah, and it's just it, I don't know. It
554
00:45:24,559 --> 00:45:28,759
did something to me to be like. The things
that these people have to navigate are
555
00:45:28,759 --> 00:45:34,519
like, so out of the realms of normal for
most people, and then they have to come
556
00:45:34,519 --> 00:45:37,639
back out into the real world. I mean,
there's that whole crush storyline, which
557
00:45:37,639 --> 00:45:38,119
I thought was
558
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:42,940
Tara Edwards: hilarious. Yes, that was a
really nice way to balance all of the
559
00:45:42,940 --> 00:45:48,760
bleakness of like dealing with trauma
patients is that, like Giovanni is 19, she
560
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:55,780
thinks one of the nurses is cute and is
failing miserably at indicating to him
561
00:45:55,900 --> 00:45:59,980
that she is interested in him
romantically. She's
562
00:45:59,979 --> 00:46:03,479
Robert Kuang: just like, overly
enthusiastic whenever he's around. Again,
563
00:46:03,479 --> 00:46:09,119
it's just like, so cringe worthy in that
relatable way. So, yes, really good
564
00:46:09,119 --> 00:46:13,439
writing on a show like Grace, normally,
this is like, the arc that they would
565
00:46:13,439 --> 00:46:15,239
focus on. You know what happened that
would
566
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:19,019
Tara Edwards: have been, like, a whole
episode would have been about, like, your
567
00:46:19,079 --> 00:46:25,459
body trying to get the attention of this
male nurse, but it happens in the
568
00:46:25,459 --> 00:46:30,319
background, and by the end of the season,
you can tell that she's learned a lot
569
00:46:30,319 --> 00:46:36,439
about herself through this first shift.
And also we've learned that again, that
570
00:46:36,439 --> 00:46:41,979
whole like, just because you have all of
the like, smarts and intelligence, and you
571
00:46:41,979 --> 00:46:46,299
know you're a prodigy and you're
precocious does not mean that you are
572
00:46:46,839 --> 00:46:54,039
necessarily 100% equipped to deal with the
chaos of the ER, speaking of chaos of the
573
00:46:54,039 --> 00:46:59,199
ER, nurse, Dana, first of all, I really
love how this show portrays nurses,
574
00:46:59,199 --> 00:47:03,719
because we often do forget about how
important nurses are in the medical
575
00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:10,919
fields. I think every good doctor knows
and talks about how without nurses, the
576
00:47:10,919 --> 00:47:19,019
entire system would fall apart and charge
nurse. Dana experiences something that a
577
00:47:19,019 --> 00:47:23,779
lot of people would think, Oh, that
doesn't happen, but it does where she
578
00:47:23,779 --> 00:47:28,579
literally gets attacked by a patient
because he's mad because he couldn't get
579
00:47:28,579 --> 00:47:29,359
treated because
580
00:47:29,359 --> 00:47:32,599
Robert Kuang: the way, it has been so
long, yeah, and then he basically socks
581
00:47:32,599 --> 00:47:36,799
her. And they have a line with all the
nurses where, just like this again, like,
582
00:47:36,799 --> 00:47:40,039
yeah, basically they say every one of them
have been assaulted.
583
00:47:40,099 --> 00:47:44,499
Tara Edwards: Yes. It becomes a situation
where like this is one of those social,
584
00:47:44,499 --> 00:47:51,519
cultural moments where the reality is that
the reason why hospital security exists
585
00:47:51,519 --> 00:47:55,779
and why you need this sort of presence of
like people to protect these doctors is
586
00:47:55,779 --> 00:48:02,099
because there are a lot of people who
would straight up just attack innocent
587
00:48:02,219 --> 00:48:08,699
nurses because she took a smoke break in
between seeing hundreds of patients,
588
00:48:08,999 --> 00:48:13,499
organizing all of these patients and
Doctor schedules, trying to make sure
589
00:48:13,499 --> 00:48:17,699
everyone stays alive, trying to figure
out, you know, what's going on, dealing
590
00:48:17,699 --> 00:48:23,119
with emotional labor. She's the charge
nurse, so she is only second to Dr Robbie
591
00:48:23,119 --> 00:48:31,099
in terms of, like, being in charge of
things in the ER, and yes, I think she she
592
00:48:31,099 --> 00:48:35,239
decides at the end of the shift that she's
like, not coming back ever, which kind of
593
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:41,499
insert that like burnout thing. Because I
do know that a lot of nurses and doctors
594
00:48:41,499 --> 00:48:47,259
left after the COVID pandemic because
after the trauma of just seeing all that
595
00:48:47,259 --> 00:48:53,979
death, but also the treatment by society
and the lay persons like I know Grace has
596
00:48:53,979 --> 00:48:59,199
an episode where you know, they have the
patient who thinks that COVID is a hoax,
597
00:48:59,199 --> 00:49:05,819
and then You have like the anti masker in
the pit as well the kind of degradation
598
00:49:05,819 --> 00:49:14,339
and dehumanization offered to nurses while
they're literally saving lives. Girl, I
599
00:49:14,339 --> 00:49:19,079
understand they need you, but if you just,
if you just said, Fuck this, I'm out. I
600
00:49:19,079 --> 00:49:21,679
can't blame you, because what the hell I
601
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:26,060
Robert Kuang: do think the pit is maybe a
little bit aspirational about the medical
602
00:49:26,060 --> 00:49:30,440
field in the end, like I do want to say
that it's very inspiring, but it's very
603
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:34,820
like the sliver of hope each of these
characters get to have is their own
604
00:49:34,820 --> 00:49:38,420
resilience, yeah? And wanting to do the
right thing. There's no like magic
605
00:49:38,420 --> 00:49:39,140
solution, yeah?
606
00:49:39,140 --> 00:49:45,280
Tara Edwards: Ever the catharsis that
often happens in western dramatic
607
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:50,380
structure, whether you want to or not,
that happens in this show comes from their
608
00:49:50,380 --> 00:49:55,300
resilience. As you know, characters. It
has nothing to do with like, okay, we're
609
00:49:55,300 --> 00:50:00,360
putting it all on a like, nice, pretty
bow, like we survived the crazy. Easiest
610
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:05,040
shift ever, and we're all having drinks in
the park, and we're all happy go lucky.
611
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:10,680
It's we're taking stock in like, some
crazy ass shit just happened to us, and I
612
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:14,460
have no idea how I'm gonna deal with this,
but I'm still here.
613
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:17,940
Robert Kuang: Yeah. And that's how the
last episode, which is sort of like a calm
614
00:50:17,940 --> 00:50:23,780
down episode, after like, a series of
dealing with the mass casualty the end
615
00:50:23,780 --> 00:50:28,880
with just the doctors, like, grabbing a
quick drink together and, like, that's,
616
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:32,960
that's the win. The win is like, Oh, the
day didn't defeat them, yeah. And so they
617
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:37,940
get to, they can choose to work another
day, which is, again, just both kind of
618
00:50:37,940 --> 00:50:43,180
inspiring, but they don't want to make it
sound like becoming a doctor is in any way
619
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:49,660
easy or relaxing, or that you're not gonna
get hurt make mistakes, yeah, but it's
620
00:50:49,660 --> 00:50:54,820
also inspiring, and in that sense, I kind
of appreciate that amongst the sea of
621
00:50:54,820 --> 00:50:59,440
medical shows. I wanted to mention
quickly, Dr Mohan, her arc was pretty
622
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:04,800
interesting, mostly because of her focus
in kind of dealing with women of color,
623
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:09,540
racism, discrimination, super interesting,
super important, but also the fact that
624
00:51:09,540 --> 00:51:17,580
they could not make her look tired, like
they tried to make her look bad. And I was
625
00:51:17,580 --> 00:51:21,680
like, girl, you need to go home because
your skin looks flawless as you're like,
626
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:24,800
getting a high after saving lives, you
need to go home like,
627
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:31,039
Tara Edwards: I think Dr mohan's
contrasting character is Dr Collins,
628
00:51:31,039 --> 00:51:37,759
right? It's like they're kind of foils of
each other, in the sense that Dr Mohan is
629
00:51:37,759 --> 00:51:42,039
how you are when you're still fresh and
still new and everything is like, still
630
00:51:42,039 --> 00:51:47,739
working out, and you're still learning.
And then Dr Collins is like, this is hell.
631
00:51:47,799 --> 00:51:48,879
I'm going home.
632
00:51:50,860 --> 00:51:53,380
Robert Kuang: Dr Collins is the nice shift
No. Dr
633
00:51:53,380 --> 00:52:00,100
Tara Edwards: Collins is the senior
resident that was dating Dr Robbie before,
634
00:52:00,100 --> 00:52:06,300
and it has the miscarriage during her
shifts. This is all ongoing home. Kudos
635
00:52:06,300 --> 00:52:09,960
Robert Kuang: for all of those doctors,
Collins, Mohan, specifically Javadi. They
636
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:16,320
had a couple like, in my opinion, like
women moments, you know that? You know, I
637
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:19,620
get, I get emotional with that, but it's
just like, is nice. There are just a
638
00:52:19,620 --> 00:52:24,920
couple moments of like, woman of color,
women gathering together to help someone,
639
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:29,900
to help another woman. It's just nice. You
know, Night Shift doing it quickly. Talk
640
00:52:29,900 --> 00:52:33,920
about night shift, because, like, that's
one of the funniest thing they do this
641
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:34,280
season.
642
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:38,660
Tara Edwards: So in contrast to the day
shift, that all kinds of seems like
643
00:52:38,660 --> 00:52:43,360
they're just barely holding on by a
thread, just trying to get through like,
644
00:52:43,660 --> 00:52:48,940
the next patient, the next like thing.
Night Shift comes in and they're just
645
00:52:48,940 --> 00:52:56,920
like, we're on we're ready to go. We have
Jack Abbott, who is the senior doctor on
646
00:52:56,920 --> 00:53:02,880
the night shift. He just casually reveals
that he's an amputee, and they don't make
647
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:06,960
a big deal about it, which was really
nice, because, yeah, people loved his
648
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:14,700
depiction. I think it when displaying
disabled characters, there is a tendency
649
00:53:14,700 --> 00:53:19,860
to make their entire personality about
their struggles with a disability. And
650
00:53:19,860 --> 00:53:27,740
instead, this guy is a fucking badass. He
comes in, he does all of these crazy like
651
00:53:27,740 --> 00:53:33,140
thinking on his feet, like moments of
treating patients he is. He also saves
652
00:53:33,140 --> 00:53:37,280
Robbie's life, like, because you're not,
not going to tell me that he didn't go up
653
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:39,080
to that roof with some thoughts,
654
00:53:40,340 --> 00:53:43,420
Robert Kuang: yeah, they capped that at
the beginning of the show, which I kind of
655
00:53:43,420 --> 00:53:49,240
forgot about, actually, with the end of
Robbie and Dr Abbott standing on the
656
00:53:49,240 --> 00:53:53,680
rooftop of the hospital together, just
talking about all the things they have to
657
00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:59,320
deal with and life and everything. Love
that guy, he's portrayed as also having a
658
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:00,480
military background,
659
00:54:00,660 --> 00:54:05,700
Tara Edwards: correct? Yes, I think he's
an amputee because he was like, deployed
660
00:54:05,700 --> 00:54:13,320
or deployed, and he has moments where he
he applies medicine that is specifically
661
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:22,100
from being in the military, which military
is a lot more quick and dirty as and
662
00:54:22,100 --> 00:54:23,420
Robert Kuang: make it up as you go. Very
663
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:30,440
Tara Edwards: much like we need to do
whatever we can to save the patients. So
664
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:31,100
here we go.
665
00:54:31,100 --> 00:54:35,480
Robert Kuang: Love that, love that flavor
of medicine kind of reminds me of like
666
00:54:35,540 --> 00:54:43,660
Owen in a good way, and the night shift in
general, they have this joke, and I've
667
00:54:43,660 --> 00:54:47,320
heard this when I did like caregiving
training and everything, which is like,
668
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:50,740
night shift is a little bit different.
They're the people who choose to do the
669
00:54:50,740 --> 00:54:55,180
night shift are a little bit kookier. And
they introduce her name, Dr Ellis, and
670
00:54:55,180 --> 00:54:56,740
then the Asian guy, I can't Yes,
671
00:54:56,800 --> 00:55:05,640
Tara Edwards: Dr Ellis and Dr Shin Yeah.
Dr Shin, okay. Dr Shin is hilarious, as he
672
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:15,360
just triages but hundreds hundreds of
patients that are coming in from this mass
673
00:55:15,540 --> 00:55:24,200
casualty event of people being shot at a
music on surface. Yeah, yeah. Robbie's
674
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:27,620
like, Are you sure you're good? You're
sure you're good. And Doctor Shin is just
675
00:55:27,620 --> 00:55:30,440
like, bruh, we're gonna be fine.
676
00:55:30,620 --> 00:55:34,580
Robert Kuang: He's a bro doctor. He's
like, he's got, like, a, if a doctor was
677
00:55:34,580 --> 00:55:36,740
like, a surfer dude, he's he's chill.
678
00:55:37,820 --> 00:55:42,040
Tara Edwards: I will be really interested
to see if that character ever has
679
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:47,080
something that actually phases him? He
seems like a very like, straightforward,
680
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:53,920
unmovable, unshakable guy. And I love
seeing those characters get pushed to
681
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:57,460
their limits, because it's always like, is
this going to be the thing that makes you
682
00:55:57,460 --> 00:55:59,260
have an emotional response?
683
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:03,600
Robert Kuang: Yeah, because not all the
doctors necessarily, like, it's not like
684
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:07,560
you find out, like, Oh, here's their like,
secret baggage, right? Some of them do,
685
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:11,820
but some of them are just, like, really
great, interesting characters. And he was
686
00:56:11,820 --> 00:56:16,260
one of them, just because he contrasted so
well with Dr Robbie in particular, who was
687
00:56:16,260 --> 00:56:19,680
like, Are you good? And he was like, Yeah,
this is how I keep calm.
688
00:56:20,699 --> 00:56:25,639
Tara Edwards: Yeah. It's like, the perfect
example of, like, a person who has never
689
00:56:25,639 --> 00:56:31,219
been through like, a truly traumatic
event, versus someone who's like, entire
690
00:56:31,219 --> 00:56:36,619
like, yeah, just childhood trauma. You
know, that's probably why he's chill. I
691
00:56:36,619 --> 00:56:40,599
wouldn't be surprised if later we find
out, like, he's had the most traumatic
692
00:56:40,599 --> 00:56:45,159
childhood ever. And so now he's like,
nothing can phase me, because that
693
00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:48,580
Robert Kuang: would actually be
interesting, yeah? Because I could also
694
00:56:48,580 --> 00:56:52,000
see him being like, Yeah, I'm a doctor
because I got, like, really good grades,
695
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:54,340
not because my dad died. You know what I
mean? Like,
696
00:56:55,719 --> 00:57:00,539
Tara Edwards: yeah, I'm a doctor because
it was the easiest way to get out of the
697
00:57:00,539 --> 00:57:01,979
foster care system,
698
00:57:01,980 --> 00:57:05,700
Robert Kuang: right? And you're like, oh
shit. But like, you know, similarly Dr
699
00:57:05,700 --> 00:57:09,180
Ellis, we don't really know her backstory.
She was just quickly became a fan
700
00:57:09,180 --> 00:57:12,180
favorite, because I think queer women
701
00:57:12,959 --> 00:57:21,619
Tara Edwards: loved her. Oh yes, the
lesbians were like, being down for
702
00:57:21,619 --> 00:57:24,679
Robert Kuang: and they don't even confirm
that, because they don't, they don't do
703
00:57:24,679 --> 00:57:28,399
all that, like flirting and everything,
like, we don't really know, but she's just
704
00:57:28,399 --> 00:57:29,479
got an aura,
705
00:57:29,540 --> 00:57:33,860
Tara Edwards: so we do know that there was
some kind of queer love undertones with Dr
706
00:57:33,860 --> 00:57:40,300
Santos and one of the surgical residents
before she said, Don't tell me Nothing,
707
00:57:40,300 --> 00:57:45,580
because I don't want to be involved, which
is now my approach to all workplace drama,
708
00:57:45,580 --> 00:57:49,480
which is nothing because I don't want to
be involved. Very Bailey move, quite
709
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:53,440
frankly, yeah, it's like, why are you
telling me this? Do not tell me. So, I
710
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:58,120
think people are probably picking up on
that. Santos might be a little bit, you
711
00:57:58,120 --> 00:58:06,840
know, one of the girls so and also there
is that sort of like moment where we
712
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:14,100
finally get Santos finally being pushed by
someone in a way that is constructive.
713
00:58:14,100 --> 00:58:19,920
Because, you know, you realize, like
Langdon is pushing her because he is also
714
00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:25,520
compensating, and knows that she knows
what he's up to, whereas, like Dr Ellis is
715
00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:30,800
pushing her because she wants her to be a
better doctor. And I think that makes
716
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:37,400
their interactions a lot more compelling,
or not compelling, but just like easy to
717
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:40,720
watch, because, you know, it's not
nefarious, right? You know, it's not
718
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:45,100
coming from a selfish place, and I
personally love when that happens,
719
00:58:45,100 --> 00:58:50,320
because, again, it's just hubris. I can't
stand hubris in people. It's like, I
720
00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:55,960
personally will always err on the side of
like it's much better to admit you don't
721
00:58:55,960 --> 00:59:01,260
know something than to pretend to know and
pretend you have all the answers. So that
722
00:59:01,260 --> 00:59:05,940
moment when Dr Ellis just tells her, like,
you're pretty tired, huh? Your patients
723
00:59:05,940 --> 00:59:07,980
don't give a shit, yeah, yeah.
724
00:59:07,980 --> 00:59:11,460
Robert Kuang: And I think, like, I love
that moment for her, because she's not
725
00:59:11,460 --> 00:59:14,880
trying to be a bitch. She's just like,
this is the patient we're working on. We
726
00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:18,540
need to focus on this. And you've had a
long day, you need to pull yourself
727
00:59:18,540 --> 00:59:23,060
together. And I totally get that. And she
was kind of a badass, too, when she
728
00:59:23,060 --> 00:59:27,800
entered very interesting choice, by the
way, to do like, I thought maybe they were
729
00:59:27,800 --> 00:59:32,120
gonna end on like, 12 episodes, because
it's not that uncommon to have a 12 hour
730
00:59:32,120 --> 00:59:33,020
shift at a hospital.
731
00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:36,980
Tara Edwards: And also a season order. I
was under the impression that a season
732
00:59:36,980 --> 00:59:39,380
order is usually 12 episodes,
733
00:59:39,980 --> 00:59:44,140
Robert Kuang: and I was like, that's an
interesting episode order account. And
734
00:59:44,140 --> 00:59:48,460
they made this very interesting choice,
structurally, to me, where, like, the show
735
00:59:48,460 --> 00:59:53,080
goes into the night shift, so you have
these new doctors coming in. Also, like,
736
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:56,140
you're seeing doctors having to catch up,
you know, as they enter, like, they don't
737
00:59:56,140 --> 00:59:59,200
have time to, like, drink their soda.
There's a shooting that just happened,
738
00:59:59,200 --> 01:00:03,540
right? And also. Just like juxtaposing,
like, what's the military doctor, he like,
739
01:00:03,540 --> 01:00:09,900
comes back, grab it, yeah? Dr, Abbott
clocked out in episode one, I had a clock
740
01:00:09,900 --> 01:00:15,480
back. Ed, like, yeah. By episode like, 10
or episode 10, because there was, like, a
741
01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:20,780
huge emergency and all of that, and again,
all of that, just, like, just informed the
742
01:00:20,780 --> 01:00:24,680
storytelling even more. It was
interesting. I don't think I've ever seen
743
01:00:24,680 --> 01:00:29,420
something like that. I'm really excited to
see what kind of story they tell in season
744
01:00:29,420 --> 01:00:29,780
two.
745
01:00:30,380 --> 01:00:38,540
Tara Edwards: Yeah. And honestly, I think
I am happy to be more on the side of the
746
01:00:38,540 --> 01:00:43,960
focusing on the medicine doctors. I think
something that, I think medical shows kind
747
01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:49,180
of fall in a trap a lot of the times, is
getting too caught up in to making patient
748
01:00:49,180 --> 01:00:55,480
story lines compelling. Like, yeah, for
example, you know, Denny's whole thing in
749
01:00:55,840 --> 01:01:02,100
uh, grays is one. There's, like, a very
famous er episode 20 it's it does a 24
750
01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:07,920
hour shift where you see Noah Wiley's
character and his counterpart on the night
751
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:13,380
shifts treat the same patient over that 24
hours. So the episode is more is focused
752
01:01:13,380 --> 01:01:18,480
on that patient's experience of 24 hours
in the hospital. Oh, okay, yeah, that's
753
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:25,880
cool. And that has just been done so often
that I love that the show is focusing more
754
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:32,900
on the doctor's experience of actually
working. It's like, when you hear medical
755
01:01:32,900 --> 01:01:37,100
drama procedural, you think, Oh, of
course, it's about the hospital, but it's
756
01:01:37,100 --> 01:01:42,940
like, I do often feel like patient stories
become a little bit of a highlight or a
757
01:01:42,940 --> 01:01:49,540
cop out, whereas, like, here the patients
are important, but they aren't used as,
758
01:01:49,540 --> 01:01:55,720
like lesson vehicles for character
development as much as just environment
759
01:01:55,720 --> 01:01:56,440
is.
760
01:01:56,979 --> 01:02:00,159
Robert Kuang: Yeah, they're not just like
symbols, right for like, these different
761
01:02:00,159 --> 01:02:03,539
themes and everything. And I think they
did that also with, like the hospital
762
01:02:03,539 --> 01:02:06,839
admin, where, like, it could have been
very easy to demonize that character, but
763
01:02:06,839 --> 01:02:12,299
it was just to establish what these
doctors have to deal with, because you saw
764
01:02:12,299 --> 01:02:18,659
like the press, the cops, the military,
the admin, the patients, the family,
765
01:02:18,659 --> 01:02:22,399
seeing all and then also, like they have
to deal with each other, like Dana had to
766
01:02:22,399 --> 01:02:27,979
do so much emotional labor for these damn
doctors. I was like, Girl justice for
767
01:02:27,979 --> 01:02:33,439
Dana, honestly at the end of season one,
yes, justice for Dana, they're at work. So
768
01:02:33,439 --> 01:02:36,439
imagine having to deal with all these
different elements when they're just
769
01:02:36,439 --> 01:02:40,179
trying to do their work, and the work is
saving lives. You know, as a viewer, it
770
01:02:40,179 --> 01:02:44,499
makes me be like, This is crazy that they
have to deal with all of this, and also,
771
01:02:44,679 --> 01:02:50,019
for sure, it can be a negative on negative
impact on patient care, right? Yeah. So,
772
01:02:50,019 --> 01:02:55,899
like, there are valid criticisms of the
medical system and the medical industry,
773
01:02:56,079 --> 01:02:59,319
but I feel like this show is, like,
definitely addressing some of it,
774
01:02:59,439 --> 01:03:03,779
especially with, like, worker shortage,
but it's also being like, all of this is
775
01:03:03,779 --> 01:03:07,859
important, because all of these characters
are trying to save lives, like, that's the
776
01:03:07,859 --> 01:03:10,619
one thing that they all have in common.
Yeah, I love that.
777
01:03:10,799 --> 01:03:18,899
Tara Edwards: It makes the show much more
impactful emotionally, because they're all
778
01:03:18,899 --> 01:03:24,379
kind of working towards that same common
goal that feels greater than themselves,
779
01:03:24,379 --> 01:03:30,559
right? It's like there are many a
workplace drama you'll never feel the same
780
01:03:30,559 --> 01:03:36,199
way you feel about the pit for like, a
corporate business structure, right?
781
01:03:36,199 --> 01:03:40,719
Because it's like at the end of the day,
they're just making ads, they're just
782
01:03:40,719 --> 01:03:45,159
marketing. They're just like these things.
They matter to these characters,
783
01:03:45,159 --> 01:03:50,559
obviously, but it's not, it's never gonna
have that same like impact of like, they
784
01:03:50,559 --> 01:03:52,179
just saved 100 people, yeah?
785
01:03:52,180 --> 01:03:55,720
Robert Kuang: And we were able to do that
math too. I was just like, yeah, that was
786
01:03:55,720 --> 01:04:00,840
only one episode, and they dropped a
number. They well over 100 they triaged
787
01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:05,940
100 patients, uh, victims from the
shooting alone, and that was on top of all
788
01:04:05,940 --> 01:04:09,840
of the patients I had dealt with earlier
in the day already. So like, again, the
789
01:04:09,840 --> 01:04:14,880
show just makes you, like, really
remember, but also, like, experience what
790
01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:18,900
they have to go through in a way that I've
never really seen in a medical drama
791
01:04:18,900 --> 01:04:19,920
before. Yeah,
792
01:04:20,460 --> 01:04:27,500
Tara Edwards: one of Dr Robbie's more
impressive scenes is when he says to his,
793
01:04:28,100 --> 01:04:32,900
I guess stepson, slash kind of former
stepson, because he's not really his
794
01:04:32,900 --> 01:04:39,260
stepson anymore. I'm going to remember all
the patients I lost well after you've
795
01:04:39,260 --> 01:04:41,800
forgotten that you lost, which
796
01:04:41,800 --> 01:04:45,100
Robert Kuang: I was like, you know, I know
everyone's been through a lot, but that is
797
01:04:45,100 --> 01:04:48,100
fair, because that kid I could not
798
01:04:48,279 --> 01:04:52,599
Tara Edwards: like in that moment, it's so
understandable, but it's also like, you
799
01:04:52,599 --> 01:04:53,499
little bitch,
800
01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:59,440
Robert Kuang: yeah, again, kudos to like
the the writing overall, because, like,
801
01:04:59,500 --> 01:05:03,600
had that. Reaction with him, but also had
that here and there with some of the
802
01:05:03,600 --> 01:05:08,340
patients and and family members in
particular. It's not that you don't
803
01:05:08,340 --> 01:05:12,360
understand why they're being in an
asshole, yeah, and why they're chewing
804
01:05:12,360 --> 01:05:17,820
people out. And that's partially what
makes this show so gripping, is like I got
805
01:05:17,820 --> 01:05:22,880
so annoyed with certain family members,
but then they would honor why they're
806
01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:27,200
doing all of that, yeah, by like, I
haven't I have to say goodbye to my dad,
807
01:05:27,200 --> 01:05:30,560
by the way, while all of these characters
are doing all those things, and they like,
808
01:05:30,620 --> 01:05:33,200
let you sit with that. Oh, so good.
809
01:05:33,200 --> 01:05:39,140
Tara Edwards: Yeah, it's like it, what
makes it so emotionally gripping is that
810
01:05:39,560 --> 01:05:48,700
both characters are right. It is right.
Yes, yep, you feel betrayed and overly
811
01:05:48,700 --> 01:05:52,780
stricken by grief because your girlfriend
was literally just shot to death next to
812
01:05:52,780 --> 01:05:59,560
you and your you know, image of this
perfect father figure could not save her,
813
01:05:59,920 --> 01:06:05,280
but Robbie's also right? Like, in 20
years, you probably won't even you know,
814
01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:10,860
you'll probably think about her, but it
won't be the same sting as like knowing
815
01:06:10,860 --> 01:06:17,220
that he lost a patient after doing
everything he absolutely could have in the
816
01:06:17,220 --> 01:06:22,280
moment to save her with limited resources.
Because that's the other thing people
817
01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:27,080
don't realize just how like cooked we are
as a society when it comes to the medical
818
01:06:27,080 --> 01:06:28,700
industry. Like, he
819
01:06:28,700 --> 01:06:33,500
Robert Kuang: definitely represented that,
especially with the anti Vaxxer mom, there
820
01:06:33,500 --> 01:06:38,480
are a couple times where he said this to
his son as well, where my experience will
821
01:06:38,480 --> 01:06:42,880
never be like yours, because I am a doctor
and you're not. And like, there's a
822
01:06:42,880 --> 01:06:47,320
difference, you know what I mean? And
like, this show made you understand why it
823
01:06:47,320 --> 01:06:52,000
is important to, you know, basically, to
respect doctors opinions as well as much
824
01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:53,920
as there are criticisms. Basically
825
01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:59,440
Tara Edwards: the idea is, like to treat
them with a level of humanity that you may
826
01:06:59,680 --> 01:07:01,380
usually not because
827
01:07:01,739 --> 01:07:04,679
Robert Kuang: you're dealing with the
worst of your life or whatever. Yeah, for
828
01:07:04,679 --> 01:07:05,639
sure, it's like,
829
01:07:05,819 --> 01:07:10,499
Tara Edwards: I think something I
mentioned a little bit because it came up
830
01:07:10,499 --> 01:07:17,279
with the implications of, like, fat phobia
that Dr McKay may have used in her initial
831
01:07:18,179 --> 01:07:24,259
understanding of a patient's symptoms, is
that, like, it is valid for a lot of
832
01:07:24,259 --> 01:07:29,719
groups of people to be highly suspicious
of doctors because they do have biases.
833
01:07:29,779 --> 01:07:35,599
They are not perfect. They do have blind
spots, like Lang pins. Blind Spot was
834
01:07:35,599 --> 01:07:36,139
autism
835
01:07:36,259 --> 01:07:40,239
Robert Kuang: immediately and he didn't.
And the chronic pain patient, right? Black
836
01:07:40,239 --> 01:07:41,019
woman, yeah,
837
01:07:41,080 --> 01:07:44,200
Tara Edwards: but at the same time, it's
like, then you see the situation with the
838
01:07:44,200 --> 01:07:49,900
anti Vaxxer, and you're like, She's
killing her son by having this sort of,
839
01:07:49,960 --> 01:07:55,840
you know, suspicion. So how do you, you
know, grapple with those situations where
840
01:07:55,840 --> 01:07:59,260
people are both right? And I think that's
what makes it compelling, yeah,
841
01:07:59,260 --> 01:08:04,200
Robert Kuang: because, like, ultimately
taking out the anti vaccine aspect of it,
842
01:08:04,200 --> 01:08:08,940
she has a right as the parent, to be a
part of the decision making, exactly
843
01:08:09,000 --> 01:08:13,200
right? You can't take that away from
family members, right? So it's tough.
844
01:08:13,200 --> 01:08:16,380
That's why, that's what makes this so
gripping and like it tucks at your
845
01:08:16,380 --> 01:08:19,920
heartstrings, even the characters that
you're just like you're so frustrated
846
01:08:19,920 --> 01:08:23,900
with, you understand their frustration,
because we would, we might be frustrated,
847
01:08:23,900 --> 01:08:27,680
like we might be in their situation and
reacting in somewhat similar ways. Right?
848
01:08:27,740 --> 01:08:30,980
Are there any other things that you want
to put on the table before we wrap up?
849
01:08:31,040 --> 01:08:35,180
Tara Edwards: Oh, I just wanted to mention
that, like the contrast between Dr Robbie
850
01:08:35,180 --> 01:08:41,140
and Dr King in their treatment of the anti
vaccine mom is a really good like, study
851
01:08:41,140 --> 01:08:46,000
of how to deal with those kinds of
patients. Because, obviously, because
852
01:08:46,000 --> 01:08:50,260
Robbie is, like, dealing with all of that
the end
853
01:08:51,460 --> 01:08:54,580
Robert Kuang: this close to having a full
breakdown,
854
01:08:55,420 --> 01:08:59,500
Tara Edwards: yeah, well, he'd already had
one. It was just going to continue to get
855
01:08:59,500 --> 01:09:06,240
worse. And then you have poor Dr King, who
has like, gone through so much in the
856
01:09:06,240 --> 01:09:13,800
past, like 10 hours, and she still managed
to, like, give grace to this patient's
857
01:09:13,800 --> 01:09:18,660
mother, who is she could see her humanity
in that moment. It's like she's just a
858
01:09:18,660 --> 01:09:24,080
scared mother who doesn't understand what
she doesn't understand, which pisses me
859
01:09:24,080 --> 01:09:30,080
off, like I did like that little contrast,
because Robbie is like, I'm gonna show
860
01:09:30,080 --> 01:09:34,880
this guy what could happen to his kid by
breaking protocol and literally showing
861
01:09:34,880 --> 01:09:35,660
him dead bodies.
862
01:09:37,219 --> 01:09:40,099
Robert Kuang: That was wrong of Dr Robbie,
let me just be clear
863
01:09:42,139 --> 01:09:48,699
Tara Edwards: and fired. But also we get
that nice contrast of like, Dr Shin and Dr
864
01:09:48,699 --> 01:09:56,619
Ellis and Dr King being like, sometimes
you do have to do that work of being non
865
01:09:56,619 --> 01:10:00,839
judgmental towards Yeah, people. That's.
Because, because
866
01:10:00,840 --> 01:10:04,320
Robert Kuang: it can, ultimately, I do
think probably it can lead to better
867
01:10:04,320 --> 01:10:06,300
outcomes on average. Yeah,
868
01:10:06,360 --> 01:10:10,020
Tara Edwards: you could say Dr Robbie was
right in the end, because the husband did
869
01:10:10,020 --> 01:10:12,180
listen to him after that. But yeah,
870
01:10:13,980 --> 01:10:17,400
Robert Kuang: it's funny. You pointed out
Dr King's like the way she worked that
871
01:10:17,400 --> 01:10:21,320
room. I hadn't thought about that. But
yeah, there are different ways to have
872
01:10:21,320 --> 01:10:25,040
this conversation where she's just like, I
don't know. She was just being with that
873
01:10:25,040 --> 01:10:29,300
mother's like, stress and anger and doing
her job, and then she's like, Yeah, we're
874
01:10:29,300 --> 01:10:32,900
done. We won't do this again. You're good.
And like, the show has a couple of moments
875
01:10:32,900 --> 01:10:36,560
where it's like, certain things in life do
not get wrapped up in a neat little
876
01:10:36,560 --> 01:10:40,660
package. Yeah, this patient, couple other
patients, they just like, let them go
877
01:10:40,660 --> 01:10:44,260
because there's nothing more they could
do. Like the trafficking patient, yeah?
878
01:10:44,320 --> 01:10:48,160
And they have storylines where just like,
like, shit happens and like, they have to
879
01:10:48,160 --> 01:10:51,640
carry on, you know, they can't save
everybody. And they say that a couple
880
01:10:51,640 --> 01:10:52,720
times, yeah,
881
01:10:52,780 --> 01:10:58,360
Tara Edwards: yeah, for sure. It's like,
like, the one addict patient as well.
882
01:10:58,540 --> 01:11:01,560
Robert Kuang: Oh yeah, yeah, the white
guy, right? Yeah.
883
01:11:01,620 --> 01:11:06,060
Tara Edwards: Basically they're like, you
can get treatment and, yeah,
884
01:11:06,660 --> 01:11:09,720
Robert Kuang: any other things you want to
shout out before we wrap? Um, can't
885
01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:15,420
Tara Edwards: wait for season two. Really
great show. I loved all of the women,
886
01:11:15,660 --> 01:11:24,020
especially rooting for Dr King, Dr
Collins, and I really still hope that Dr
887
01:11:24,020 --> 01:11:26,300
Collins and Dr Robbie get back together.
Yeah,
888
01:11:26,300 --> 01:11:30,140
Robert Kuang: I'm very interested to see I
mean, they do have, like, planted seeds,
889
01:11:30,140 --> 01:11:33,920
right? They definitely didn't want to
distract you, but, like, the fans were
890
01:11:33,920 --> 01:11:38,360
eating that shit up, so, like, they're
coming back for season two, and they did
891
01:11:38,360 --> 01:11:42,040
make a couple no's. I'm curious to see
what they do. If they do the same number
892
01:11:42,040 --> 01:11:47,260
of episodes, are they gonna have like,
like so like, a different shift? Again, a
893
01:11:47,260 --> 01:11:50,320
running joke that I think a lot of people
are making is they should do a spin off
894
01:11:50,320 --> 01:11:54,340
called night shift, the pit cool night
shift. They
895
01:11:54,340 --> 01:12:00,220
Tara Edwards: could do 24 episodes where
we get to see the start of the day shift
896
01:12:00,280 --> 01:12:04,380
into night shift, into the day shift,
coming back in again. It's
897
01:12:04,380 --> 01:12:08,160
Robert Kuang: kind of perfect. It's one
set. It's one giant set. They have a nice
898
01:12:08,160 --> 01:12:11,700
little machine, and they're doing a good
job with like, the stories they're trying
899
01:12:11,700 --> 01:12:16,560
to tell. So I I hope this brings back,
give us some sliver of joys here and there
900
01:12:16,560 --> 01:12:17,880
in these uncertain times.
901
01:12:19,440 --> 01:12:23,360
Tara Edwards: I know some for some people,
their comfort shows involve like, you
902
01:12:23,360 --> 01:12:28,940
know, high fantasy, just completely
escaping the day to day reality. But for
903
01:12:28,940 --> 01:12:34,400
me, I love the catharsis of, like, seeing
people like me experiencing the things I'm
904
01:12:34,400 --> 01:12:40,420
experiencing, and being like, hell no, I'm
going home because I'm just like, that's
905
01:12:40,420 --> 01:12:41,980
valid. That's
906
01:12:41,980 --> 01:12:45,280
Robert Kuang: real. I think you would be.
You would befriend like, dr, Abbott, who?
907
01:12:45,280 --> 01:12:48,220
What was he lying? Where he's like, the
darkness agrees with me.
908
01:12:49,060 --> 01:12:54,280
Tara Edwards: Yes, the darkness. I'm like,
listen, at some point we need to address,
909
01:12:54,280 --> 01:12:59,740
as a society, how we force everyone to be
on this, like, daytime schedule, one day,
910
01:12:59,740 --> 01:13:00,120
one day.
911
01:13:00,540 --> 01:13:05,100
Robert Kuang: It's like, you Abbott and Dr
Shin, who like drinks soda chronically,
912
01:13:05,100 --> 01:13:12,060
yeah. Okay, well, thank you for taking me,
being with me through this romp. We
913
01:13:12,060 --> 01:13:16,380
watched the show together, and I was like,
let's record a discussion episode. So
914
01:13:16,440 --> 01:13:18,540
thank you, of course, yeah. Thank you.