WEBVTT
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Welcome to Daddy's Podcast. This is the Redefining
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Plastics Podcast. Welcome to the Redefining Plastics
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Podcast. My name is Justin Riney. I'm here with
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Christine Yeager. Christine and I have worked
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together on a couple of different projects, and
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we are both here at the National Plastics Conference,
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and we're at National Plastics Conference Live
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recording podcast episodes, and we're having
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a blast doing it. So, Christine, thank you for
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joining the show. Yeah, I'm happy to be here.
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Yeah, I mean, I'm in my hometown, so that's nice.
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And so far I've had some pretty interesting conversations.
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Yeah, I'm excited to – I've never been to the
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National Plastics Conference. Me either. So this
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is a first for both of us. So you and I are doing
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a lot of work on EPR, and you've got a lot of
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experience in EPR, and you know more about it
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than I do. So I've got a lot of questions that
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we're going to ask. The way I like to do these
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things is it's a conversation. We're just going
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to talk about things and whatever comes up, that's
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what we're going to talk about. All right. But
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first off, how did you get into this wild world
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of EPR? Great question. So in 2020, it was a
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pandemic and my job was long range planning and
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annual planning, which if you remember, all plans
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went out the window. Exactly right. Long range
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planning. It's like, what is it? The fools make
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plans? Yeah. Something like that. Yeah. It was
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like week by week planning at that stage. So
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I raised my hand for a stretch assignment to
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dive into, you know, if we ever get out of this,
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what will World Without Waste look like? Which
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at the time, Coca -Cola had a World Without Waste
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commitment, which had many faceted things. And
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one of them was to collect every bottle and can
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that they sold into the market. One company can
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only do so much. And then it became supporting
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well -structured extended producer responsibility
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and deposit return schemes. And so I started
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to learn even what that meant. My background
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was in packaging. It was in master data, implementations,
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technology. All exciting stuff. I got to say.
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I mean, you need to understand your data in order
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to report this stuff, right? Right. So I started
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learning about EPR and I was hooked. And I left
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Coca -Cola and I started working as an independent
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consulting wit. consultant with Circular Action
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Alliance, the approved producer responsibility
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organization. And at the time, they weren't selected
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yet in California. So it was very early on. And,
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you know, I just, I wanted to be part of something
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that was starting action in this space instead
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of talking about the thing that we're talking
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about over and over again. We're good at that.
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I think packaging people, because I come out
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of the packaging industry. And we're very good
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at talking about things that may happen and never
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really good about executing on those things when
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they happen. But we're very good at having the
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conversations up front. So extended producer
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responsibility. My experience, most brands that
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I talk to, national brands, they know what's
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going on. They have a general idea of what extended
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producer responsibility is. Regional brands have
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no clue. You got to be really busy right now.
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There's a lot of people that don't know. And
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then when you look at this patchwork of regulations
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across the country, Oregon is very different
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than California. California is more of a ban
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bill, if we're being serious. And then Colorado
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is a little more, it's in the middle. It's pretty
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good. I think it's actually pretty good EPR law.
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How do you manage that? When you're talking to
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people, because they ask you, I'm sure, they
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come to you and say, what is EPR? And then you
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have to say, well, what state are we talking
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about? What exactly are you selling? How is that
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going to work? So how does the whole process
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work when you're dealing with clients? Good question.
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I think some clients or some people, producers,
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are sort of waiting to get in trouble. I like
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that idea. That's exactly what I would do. Some
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producers are already doing a lot of really great
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work and using recycled content, but they're
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still getting hit with crippling fees because
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they're small. And then, like you said, there's
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a lot of bigger producers that have been a part
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of the conversation for a long time. But even
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they are sort of struggling with where do I focus
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my time and energy knowing that. this, I have
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a national supply chain and this is a state by
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state problem. And where does it really matter
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to dive in? And where does it really matter that
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I can maybe just pay the fee? Yeah. Right. So
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it starts usually with how much do you know about
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EPR? Like, do you even know what that is? Can
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you explain to me in two sentences what the idea
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behind it is? And if you can't, then it's a different
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conversation. Exactly. I like that. And most
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of them say, no, I don't know what that is. I
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mean, honestly, they even come to me and they
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don't know what it is. They're just like, I hear
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that I'm supposed to, like, comply with something.
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So then, yeah, I mean, I started the basics,
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which is extended producer responsibility is
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a way to shift funding mechanism from municipalities
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and governments to producers that make and sell
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paper and packaging. For waste management. And
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the idea is great. I'm going to say it on this
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show specifically because a lot of people in
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the plastics industry, either they love or hate
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it. I personally like EPR and the idea behind
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it if it's executed well. Anyway, continue. Yeah.
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And exactly. And then it gets into, well, I need
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to understand your business a little better to
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understand where you may or may not be obligated
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because it is nuanced. And then eventually we
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get to a point where they say. oh my God, this
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is so confusing. How am I supposed to do this,
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right? I have one client who pays me to help
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them, but their fees are actually very low, right?
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So I have to justify that paying me is worth
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it. But at the flip side, if they didn't report
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the way that they do, they would just be paying
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a flat fee, which would be much higher. Yeah.
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So you're saving them money. It's a cost avoidance
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for the business. Yeah, exactly. Did you ever
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anticipate? In your wildest of dreams, when you
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were, let's say, 18 -year -old Christine, that
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you were going to be consulting people on how
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to deal with a massive new hackaging regulation
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schema. Was that in the back of your mind? Like,
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you know what? I feel like I'm going to be helping
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people deal with something massive when I'm a
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professional. When I did leave, so I went to
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Clemson undergrad and my degree was graphic communications,
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which was effectively like commercial printing,
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right? So I left undergrad and I started, Twitter
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was new. I started a Twitter account making trash.
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Okay. So I felt, I do feel like I knew I would
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be working with the idea of like, I love being
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in the packaging space. I love seeing my product,
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the thing that I made on the shelf. Yeah. But
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I also am very aware that. It's trash. And so
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how do I avoid it being trash and divert it from
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landfills? I knew that that was going to probably
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be in my future. Honestly, I didn't think that
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I would stay working at Coca -Cola as long as
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I did. I was there over 11 years. And I think
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Coca -Cola does a lot of incredible stuff that
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it's not able to talk about because, you know,
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they get lawsuits. But yeah, PR would not work
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very well either. I get it. I am very now very
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aware of like what types of questions lawyers
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ask before you say something publicly. Yeah.
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I get that all the time. What are you going to
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talk about? And you're going to say this publicly
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and it's going to be recorded. Yeah. Yeah. So
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I think I knew that, but I did not know. I mean,
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I didn't know anything. I honestly, I think that
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the more I've gotten into the sustainability
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space, the more I sort of opened my eyes to the
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fact that you have to be a part of. policy and
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government relations in order to actively and
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successfully make change in the sustainability
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space. People talk about like the three -legged
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stool of like government, nonprofits, business.
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And I think that there's no truer thing that
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has to happen in the sustainability space. And
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all three of those have to work together in order
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to actually make the right type of change. Exactly
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right. Yeah. So you and I are doing some work.
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on behalf of the Polystyrene Recycling Alliance.
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And we are working on producer fees in Oregon
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specifically. That's where we started because
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that's the one that's active right now. Oregon's
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EPR law is active today. When you look at fees
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and how they're built, I think most people will
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look at that and say, well, that's the fee. I'm
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just going to pay it. what would you say to somebody
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that says, well, it's a fee. I need to pay it.
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It's part of a law. We personally, PSRA, don't
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like the fees that we were assessed because we
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didn't think they were based on fact. And so
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we're working with you to make sure that that
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misinformation and misunderstanding of our products
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is remedied. Do you think enough people are actually
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proactively trying to work with these states
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to make sure that the data is correct and make
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sure these fees are correct? And if not, how
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do they get in contact with you so they can do?
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I don't think there's a lot of people, let alone
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companies, that would think to come together
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and say, I want to challenge something that's
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put out by the government effectively, right?
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But... CAA, Circular Action Alliance, is a producer
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responsibility organization and its obligation
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is to the producers. Right. And so the producers
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should believe that the fees are fair. And it
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is well known fact that there is a lot of missing
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data in the recycling world because, you know,
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it's how many you said there's 30 ,000, 6 ,000,
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all different codes. Yeah. So, like, that's a
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lot of different MRFs that are not funded to
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collect data, let alone to, you know, have an
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optical sorter maybe, right? So there's not a
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lot of data out there. And the people that are
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running MRFs are not generally spreadsheet people.
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Not at all. Not at all. Not to disparage MRF
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people because they're hardworking, great individuals.
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They're there to solve problems. Yeah. They're
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not going to sit there and track all of the data
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that comes through. Oh, yeah. That's why you
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have waste characterization studies, and those
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are difficult. Yeah. Because you've got a sample
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size, and you've got everything else that goes
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along with it. And if the organization that's
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doing it doesn't know what they're doing, it's
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incumbent upon the industry to do something about
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that. We have to control our data. We, the big
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plastics industry, have to own our own data.
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And so my experience is we're not very good at
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that. Would you say that's correct? A lot of
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EPR laws talk about the fact that there's not
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good data. Like it's in the law, it's in the
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program plan. And so the concept behind EPR that
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I think... is a good concept is that it's meant
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to be self -policing. And I think this is an
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example of like, if you find it to be unfair,
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then you are spending the money to invest in
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making it more fair, right? So that is an aspect
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of the self -policing. There should be more collective
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industry action. So there are organizations out
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there that are bringing together and finding
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solutions, I think, to like, there's the U .S.
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Flexible Film Initiative. There's Pact Collective
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that's bringing together the beauty industry.
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So there's these groups that are seeing that
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their material is considered not recyclable.
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And so how do we accelerate the solution? And
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then what I just hope is that Circular Action
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Alliance is able to make space for innovative
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solutions. Because the bills are written to focus
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on curbside recycling, which... If the system
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were going to work, it would have worked by now.
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So a fact I like to throw out there to people
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is that less than 10%, I think it's actually
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8 % of all recycling that happens in the U .S.
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goes through your curbside bin. All the rest
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of it is commercial, like back of house. So all
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the stuff that we're doing with the EPS industry
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where they're packing up into bricks all of the
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EPS, the loose EPS, and then shipping it around
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the country. Because that stuff's cleaner. It's
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easier to manage. Yep. And you can track it.
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When you look at MRFs, it's contaminated. And
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single stream, I've been on a soapbox for a long
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time that I hate single stream recycling. And
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it's actually one of the worst things that this
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country has done. Because if you look at Spain,
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you look at Germany, wherever you go in Europe,
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you've got all the different bins. And then you
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put this package there, that package there, and
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these people are good. They're smart enough and
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active enough to actually do that. Yeah. So when
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you look at making fees based on 8 % to 10 %
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of all recycling that's happening, would you
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say that's a fair way of going about making?
00:14:06.449 --> 00:14:11.070
Am I crazy? But at the same time, you have to
00:14:11.070 --> 00:14:12.830
give them credit because that's the data that
00:14:12.830 --> 00:14:16.169
they have. Yeah. How are they going to know what
00:14:16.169 --> 00:14:19.789
Best Buy, Home Depot or these distribution centers
00:14:19.789 --> 00:14:23.289
are doing? Yeah. So you have to manage, like
00:14:23.289 --> 00:14:26.789
control the controllables. But at the same time,
00:14:26.789 --> 00:14:28.909
I want credit for all that stuff that's going
00:14:28.909 --> 00:14:32.029
out the back of these distribution centers. And
00:14:32.029 --> 00:14:34.960
it just, it doesn't work out very well. I mean,
00:14:34.980 --> 00:14:36.740
look, CAA is in a tough position. Yeah, they
00:14:36.740 --> 00:14:39.120
are. Right? I give them a lot of, I try to give
00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:42.120
them grace. Yeah. Because it is tough. It's tough.
00:14:42.200 --> 00:14:45.700
And they're like, a lot of them have been in
00:14:45.700 --> 00:14:48.679
the industry a long time, but they're a new organization
00:14:48.679 --> 00:14:52.620
and they have to navigate that on top of trying
00:14:52.620 --> 00:14:55.440
to change the recycling system that's been broken
00:14:55.440 --> 00:14:59.799
for a long time. Yeah. And so I have been on
00:14:59.799 --> 00:15:02.960
a kick for a long time talking about, you know,
00:15:03.230 --> 00:15:07.110
Recycling is real using the plastics terminology.
00:15:09.250 --> 00:15:12.129
We don't do enough of it. We need to do more
00:15:12.129 --> 00:15:14.889
of it, but we also need to reduce and reuse.
00:15:15.450 --> 00:15:18.909
I'm in the plastics industry. I want to protect
00:15:18.909 --> 00:15:21.429
the plastics industry. And some people in the
00:15:21.429 --> 00:15:23.730
plastics industry, when you say, I want to reduce
00:15:23.730 --> 00:15:26.269
plastic usage, they think of that as like a bad
00:15:26.269 --> 00:15:28.610
thing. I'm like, no, we have to change the narrative
00:15:28.610 --> 00:15:30.690
around our products and we have to be serious
00:15:30.690 --> 00:15:32.940
about. You were talking about the three legs
00:15:32.940 --> 00:15:35.899
of the stool earlier. I look at it the same way
00:15:35.899 --> 00:15:38.879
with the reduce, reuse, recycle. We do need to
00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:40.519
reduce the amount of packaging that we're using
00:15:40.519 --> 00:15:42.679
wherever possible. And I think the industry does
00:15:42.679 --> 00:15:45.000
a pretty good job with that light weighting and
00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:46.500
everything else. Well, because there's a cost
00:15:46.500 --> 00:15:49.860
savings. Exactly right. When it's in your best
00:15:49.860 --> 00:15:51.740
interest, typically that works out really well.
00:15:52.100 --> 00:15:57.220
But reducing too, if we're going to win a narrative
00:15:57.220 --> 00:16:00.350
battle. We have to show that we're serious about
00:16:00.350 --> 00:16:02.549
this, right? We have to show that we actually
00:16:02.549 --> 00:16:06.490
care. Yeah. And if we don't, we're going to keep
00:16:06.490 --> 00:16:09.970
getting kicked in the teeth. And if we like that,
00:16:10.029 --> 00:16:12.149
that's one thing. And if we want to keep doing
00:16:12.149 --> 00:16:13.929
that, that's one thing. But I just think that
00:16:13.929 --> 00:16:17.850
there's so much that we could be doing, even
00:16:17.850 --> 00:16:20.470
just from a PR perspective. Not to say that we're
00:16:20.470 --> 00:16:24.070
just doing it for PR, but you have the net benefit
00:16:24.070 --> 00:16:27.029
of people seeing that you actually mean what
00:16:27.029 --> 00:16:30.029
you say. Yeah. And so I just I don't know where
00:16:30.029 --> 00:16:32.029
I'm going with all that other than to say that
00:16:32.029 --> 00:16:36.610
we really need to be better as an industry on
00:16:36.610 --> 00:16:41.970
telling our story and solving problems. And I
00:16:41.970 --> 00:16:44.769
think what you're doing is solving problems for
00:16:44.769 --> 00:16:48.169
people because this is a problem. If you don't
00:16:48.169 --> 00:16:50.389
know these bills, you don't know these laws,
00:16:50.649 --> 00:16:53.259
what are you going to do? You're going to have
00:16:53.259 --> 00:16:55.039
to find somebody that does know or you're going
00:16:55.039 --> 00:16:56.620
to have to hire four people to figure it out.
00:16:57.179 --> 00:17:00.179
So how do they get in touch with you to do that?
00:17:00.679 --> 00:17:02.299
Well, first I want to comment on the solving
00:17:02.299 --> 00:17:03.980
problems things. I think you have to solve problems
00:17:03.980 --> 00:17:06.859
first and then tell the story. I like that. Right.
00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:09.960
And I like to say you have to do, you have to
00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:13.140
solve the unsexy stuff with a little bit of the
00:17:13.140 --> 00:17:15.119
sexy stuff. And then you talk about the sexy
00:17:15.119 --> 00:17:18.019
stuff. Yeah. Because if you have the unsexy stuff,
00:17:18.140 --> 00:17:22.319
the like boring master data. like the boring
00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:26.140
infrastructure that can't be a headline, then
00:17:26.140 --> 00:17:29.759
your headline will work. Because if you don't
00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:31.500
have that other stuff, then people will see through
00:17:31.500 --> 00:17:34.500
the headline, right? So solve the problem first,
00:17:34.579 --> 00:17:39.339
and then I think pick your shining star and talk
00:17:39.339 --> 00:17:43.920
about that. And I think it is hard work, and
00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:46.119
I am here to help, for sure. You can go to my
00:17:46.119 --> 00:17:49.279
website, csyimpact .com. Or you can go to my
00:17:49.279 --> 00:17:51.579
podcast, Change Cycle. That was the next thing
00:17:51.579 --> 00:17:53.819
I wanted to talk about. So let's just roll right
00:17:53.819 --> 00:17:56.819
into that. Sure. All right. So you've got a podcast
00:17:56.819 --> 00:17:58.559
you just mentioned. I'm going to give you more
00:17:58.559 --> 00:18:00.420
time to talk about the actual podcast and where
00:18:00.420 --> 00:18:03.920
people can find it. But I'm curious as to why.
00:18:04.119 --> 00:18:09.240
Yeah. Why podcast? Yeah. Well, I'm a Leo, a Texan,
00:18:09.240 --> 00:18:12.720
an extrovert, and you're the bull. Yeah. So I
00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:14.930
got a lot to say. I don't know what half of that
00:18:14.930 --> 00:18:18.049
stuff just meant, but I'm sure that all equates
00:18:18.049 --> 00:18:21.109
to your conclusion there. Really, I started it
00:18:21.109 --> 00:18:23.490
because I was going through my own personal change.
00:18:23.730 --> 00:18:29.190
So I left Coca -Cola in March of 23, but I made
00:18:29.190 --> 00:18:31.650
the decision in November. I don't think they'll
00:18:31.650 --> 00:18:33.509
do this again, but they had a voluntary separation
00:18:33.509 --> 00:18:36.109
package. You could sort of opt into the reorg.
00:18:36.269 --> 00:18:38.950
You got two extra months pay. And this time when
00:18:38.950 --> 00:18:40.869
they did it, you got your bonus. So I walked
00:18:40.869 --> 00:18:42.970
out of there with 14 months pay and my bonus.
00:18:43.640 --> 00:18:44.900
And I was like, what do I want to do with my
00:18:44.900 --> 00:18:47.380
life? Where do I want to live? How do I want
00:18:47.380 --> 00:18:50.079
to spend my time? Right. And I learned a ton
00:18:50.079 --> 00:18:52.319
at Coca -Cola and I had a great career there.
00:18:52.539 --> 00:18:54.640
But as I said, I just felt like I was hitting
00:18:54.640 --> 00:18:58.599
a wall and I wanted to drive change. And so with
00:18:58.599 --> 00:19:01.299
that came, what do I mean when I want to drive
00:19:01.299 --> 00:19:03.519
change? What do I what does that even look like?
00:19:03.539 --> 00:19:05.759
How do you do that? And so I started thinking
00:19:05.759 --> 00:19:07.500
a lot about how nice it would be to hear about
00:19:07.500 --> 00:19:09.460
other people's experiences going through change.
00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:15.619
Right. And so I decided to start a podcast and
00:19:15.619 --> 00:19:18.200
start the podcast interviews always with the
00:19:18.200 --> 00:19:19.700
same question, which is how do you live with
00:19:19.700 --> 00:19:23.740
intention? Because I think that like learning
00:19:23.740 --> 00:19:26.640
about and understanding what drives people is
00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:30.220
a great way for you to experience change if you're
00:19:30.220 --> 00:19:32.599
focused on like what's your intention, but also
00:19:32.599 --> 00:19:34.480
it kind of helps you better understand what makes
00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:36.440
people tick and how you might be able to change
00:19:36.440 --> 00:19:39.000
their minds, how you might be able to drive change
00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:42.569
in general. That's sort of the impetus for it.
00:19:42.630 --> 00:19:45.829
And then it became Change Cycle because, first
00:19:45.829 --> 00:19:48.349
of all, change is constant. Yes, it is. Right.
00:19:48.430 --> 00:19:51.869
It doesn't stop. And I'm in recycling. So it's
00:19:51.869 --> 00:19:54.390
a nice little play on words. Meta, meta situation.
00:19:54.930 --> 00:19:58.230
But it's also that, like, I think the thing that
00:19:58.230 --> 00:20:00.490
sustainability professionals, because I didn't
00:20:00.490 --> 00:20:02.509
start in sustainability. I started in packaging.
00:20:02.609 --> 00:20:06.329
I went into master data for five years. And then
00:20:06.329 --> 00:20:08.809
I went into annual and long range planning. Right.
00:20:08.910 --> 00:20:10.910
So none of that is sustainability. It was more
00:20:10.910 --> 00:20:13.210
of a core passion that I wove into everything.
00:20:13.309 --> 00:20:16.390
And then I moved into how do we operationalize
00:20:16.390 --> 00:20:18.170
sustainability? How do we move from goals into
00:20:18.170 --> 00:20:21.490
an action plan? And that's my sweet spot. That's
00:20:21.490 --> 00:20:24.490
what I love talking about is like not just what
00:20:24.490 --> 00:20:26.509
do we think we want to do, but like how are we
00:20:26.509 --> 00:20:28.690
actually going to do it? And then how are we
00:20:28.690 --> 00:20:31.140
going to measure and change that? And through
00:20:31.140 --> 00:20:34.119
that whole transition, I would talk to sustainability
00:20:34.119 --> 00:20:36.599
professionals who were really intelligent. Right.
00:20:36.660 --> 00:20:40.880
We're talking like PhDs in hydrology, you know,
00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:43.460
and they had real strategy about what they were
00:20:43.460 --> 00:20:46.180
doing, but they didn't know how to talk to the
00:20:46.180 --> 00:20:49.460
CFO. Right. And so it became very clear that
00:20:49.460 --> 00:20:53.099
all sustainability professionals need to be better
00:20:53.099 --> 00:20:56.039
change management professionals. And so that
00:20:56.039 --> 00:20:59.410
is the like third layer to the. the cake of the
00:20:59.410 --> 00:21:01.910
change cycle is like how do we as an industry
00:21:01.910 --> 00:21:05.390
become better at convincing folks of our bleeding
00:21:05.390 --> 00:21:07.910
heart things you know because you gotta tell
00:21:07.910 --> 00:21:09.849
you gotta convince the cfo i've said multiple
00:21:09.849 --> 00:21:13.410
times i'm not a marketer first off i'm somebody
00:21:13.410 --> 00:21:15.809
that likes talking to people and people seem
00:21:15.809 --> 00:21:18.170
to listen to me when i'm talking about stuff
00:21:18.170 --> 00:21:21.009
so i decided okay podcast that seems like a a
00:21:21.009 --> 00:21:24.869
fun thing to do and i wanted to change the narrative
00:21:24.869 --> 00:21:27.740
around the products I think I run into the same
00:21:27.740 --> 00:21:30.339
problems that your sustainability people are
00:21:30.339 --> 00:21:35.720
because I don't know how to reach the consumer.
00:21:36.500 --> 00:21:38.880
So I'm looking at the same thing that you're
00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:41.380
talking about instead of convincing the CFO because
00:21:41.380 --> 00:21:43.299
I'm good at that. With numbers, I can figure
00:21:43.299 --> 00:21:45.960
that out. Yeah. But how do you change the minds,
00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:48.759
the hearts and soul of the average consumer?
00:21:49.220 --> 00:21:51.500
Yeah. Do you have any thoughts on that? Oh, I
00:21:51.500 --> 00:21:54.140
mean, it turns out that Coca -Cola is quite a
00:21:54.140 --> 00:21:55.720
good marketing company. I'm sure they are. Yeah.
00:21:56.920 --> 00:22:00.299
They sell quite a bit of that stuff that's really
00:22:00.299 --> 00:22:02.720
healthy for you. When you're in those four walls
00:22:02.720 --> 00:22:05.480
and you're not labeled a marketer, you think
00:22:05.480 --> 00:22:07.759
you're not a marketer. But when you leave those
00:22:07.759 --> 00:22:11.839
four walls, you're like, oh, actually, I've been
00:22:11.839 --> 00:22:15.180
ingrained in marketing methodology my entire
00:22:15.180 --> 00:22:18.759
11 years at Coca -Cola. So, I mean, the first
00:22:18.759 --> 00:22:20.279
thing you would do at Coke is start with the
00:22:20.279 --> 00:22:23.039
consumer data, right? Like, what's really interesting,
00:22:23.240 --> 00:22:26.980
first of all, men tell. A few others that I can't
00:22:26.980 --> 00:22:28.420
think of right now. They all put out podcasts
00:22:28.420 --> 00:22:31.619
that cover like consumer data and they talk about
00:22:31.619 --> 00:22:35.359
consumer trends. And all of this stuff, I think,
00:22:35.359 --> 00:22:39.259
is like you have to think about like what and
00:22:39.259 --> 00:22:41.039
sustainable brands does this, too. They put out
00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:44.339
this great data about like what is sort of motivating
00:22:44.339 --> 00:22:47.940
the consumer these days. And then you have to
00:22:47.940 --> 00:22:51.180
kind of think about how you reach them. Right.
00:22:51.279 --> 00:22:54.299
It has to be approachable. Like consumers, I
00:22:54.299 --> 00:22:58.470
think. At a conference on pet food, I saw a study
00:22:58.470 --> 00:23:06.190
done by a group, Nielsen IQ, that the top five
00:23:06.190 --> 00:23:10.390
performing sustainable packaging claims, I don't
00:23:10.390 --> 00:23:12.609
remember exactly which number, but in the top
00:23:12.609 --> 00:23:17.049
five was compostable and recyclable. Nowhere
00:23:17.049 --> 00:23:19.069
do they care about carbon footprint. Exactly
00:23:19.069 --> 00:23:22.569
right. Because even though there is very, very
00:23:22.569 --> 00:23:25.720
little compostable infrastructure, Consumers
00:23:25.720 --> 00:23:29.359
love composting. They understand it. They know
00:23:29.359 --> 00:23:32.779
what dirt is. They see it. And I can do it, so
00:23:32.779 --> 00:23:36.059
anybody can do it. Obviously. I'm not very good
00:23:36.059 --> 00:23:39.420
at many things, but I can compost. And so they
00:23:39.420 --> 00:23:42.559
think that's got to be a good choice. And then
00:23:42.559 --> 00:23:45.960
recycling, they understand what it is. They get
00:23:45.960 --> 00:23:49.619
it. They know that recycling happens. There's
00:23:49.619 --> 00:23:52.480
been enough advertising since the 70s about recycling
00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:55.500
that people understand what that is. And so if
00:23:55.500 --> 00:23:58.079
you can make those claims on your package, the
00:23:58.079 --> 00:24:00.400
next step is then convincing them that it's actually
00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:03.660
happening. Because once you're beyond that like
00:24:03.660 --> 00:24:06.400
basic consumer that just sees the claim and you
00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:08.980
move into somebody who starts to dig deeper,
00:24:09.160 --> 00:24:11.500
then it all falls apart. Because composting,
00:24:11.500 --> 00:24:14.019
you need to have industrial composting in your
00:24:14.019 --> 00:24:15.920
area in order for that package to actually show
00:24:15.920 --> 00:24:18.039
up in a compost. And then that industrial composter
00:24:18.039 --> 00:24:20.980
has to actually accept the packaging. And then
00:24:20.980 --> 00:24:24.240
recycling. You need to believe that it's being
00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:26.799
recycled. And there's a lot of articles out there,
00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:29.980
as we know that. So I think, you know, if you
00:24:29.980 --> 00:24:31.519
really want to reach the consumer, you need to
00:24:31.519 --> 00:24:33.839
reach the consumer where they are. Right. And
00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:37.640
so the podcast would need to be like super approachable
00:24:37.640 --> 00:24:39.900
to the consumer and not just to the industry.
00:24:40.240 --> 00:24:43.460
So you've got to like, I think, talk about like
00:24:43.460 --> 00:24:45.859
you bring in brands or talk about like the things
00:24:45.859 --> 00:24:47.460
that they're going to think, see on the shelf
00:24:47.460 --> 00:24:50.730
and then know. what to do with that, you know?
00:24:50.769 --> 00:24:53.529
I like that. Like Coke did a whole video with
00:24:53.529 --> 00:24:55.589
Bill Nye, the science guy. Yeah. About like what
00:24:55.589 --> 00:24:58.309
recycling is. And it was super successful. It
00:24:58.309 --> 00:25:01.269
showed up on all sorts of like magazines that
00:25:01.269 --> 00:25:03.809
are not like industry recycling magazines, but
00:25:03.809 --> 00:25:06.210
like more consumer facing magazines, like Variety,
00:25:06.329 --> 00:25:08.769
which like normally a video about recycling would
00:25:08.769 --> 00:25:11.289
not show up in Variety. Yeah. You know? Yeah.
00:25:11.349 --> 00:25:16.920
My stuff would never show up. But yeah, I think
00:25:16.920 --> 00:25:19.480
that's always been my biggest struggle with this
00:25:19.480 --> 00:25:21.900
is because I know what my target audience is
00:25:21.900 --> 00:25:24.359
and I know what change I want to incite, which
00:25:24.359 --> 00:25:26.099
is why I like talking to you about this kind
00:25:26.099 --> 00:25:27.819
of stuff because this is what you do. You do
00:25:27.819 --> 00:25:32.480
change. So when you started the idea of putting
00:25:32.480 --> 00:25:35.099
this podcast together and you really wanted to
00:25:35.099 --> 00:25:39.440
nail down a this is my topic, why was it change?
00:25:39.700 --> 00:25:43.279
Like just because you saw a big need there or
00:25:43.279 --> 00:25:46.819
was it something more personal? I would say it's
00:25:46.819 --> 00:25:50.299
more personal. I think, like I said, I was going
00:25:50.299 --> 00:25:54.539
through a lot of change. And like, I mean, starting
00:25:54.539 --> 00:25:57.259
your own business is terrifying. It really is.
00:25:57.359 --> 00:25:58.940
Like I started this, but I'm never going to make
00:25:58.940 --> 00:26:01.740
money on it. So I don't have to worry about that.
00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:07.500
I've got a day job. And so it's and it also comes
00:26:07.500 --> 00:26:09.579
with a lot of like questioning yourself. Right.
00:26:09.700 --> 00:26:13.440
And so part of wanting to start this was also
00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:16.680
just sort of. I mean, give myself homework, right?
00:26:16.839 --> 00:26:21.000
Like I go deep into topics that some people apparently
00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:23.380
seem to listen to, but like a lot of people don't
00:26:23.380 --> 00:26:26.559
care about. But it is also helpful and fun for
00:26:26.559 --> 00:26:29.039
me to dive into, you know, the Colorado program
00:26:29.039 --> 00:26:31.299
plan and see what it's about and then talk about
00:26:31.299 --> 00:26:34.019
it or talk to somebody who was a part of getting
00:26:34.019 --> 00:26:36.779
the Colorado EPR bill passed, right? I go, I
00:26:36.779 --> 00:26:39.859
nerd out with like composters, you know, and
00:26:39.859 --> 00:26:42.740
it's fun and I learned so much. So part of it
00:26:42.740 --> 00:26:46.390
was just this. And then part of it is I think,
00:26:46.390 --> 00:26:48.529
I mean, not to toot my own horn, but I think
00:26:48.529 --> 00:26:51.009
I'm pretty good at change management. Yeah. You
00:26:51.009 --> 00:26:53.730
know, I've been sort of doing it across different
00:26:53.730 --> 00:26:56.589
aspects. I mean, it was a large part. And unfortunately,
00:26:57.190 --> 00:27:01.910
master data is boring. But it's very important.
00:27:02.130 --> 00:27:05.109
And so it was a large part of making change in
00:27:05.109 --> 00:27:08.329
that space is convincing people. And, you know,
00:27:08.349 --> 00:27:12.089
have you seen those memes about like, like. Mike's
00:27:12.089 --> 00:27:14.970
spreadsheet on top of like the tower of AI data,
00:27:15.089 --> 00:27:17.809
right? It's like everybody had their own spreadsheet
00:27:17.809 --> 00:27:20.910
across the company, you know? Like, I have this
00:27:20.910 --> 00:27:23.430
database, I have this database. So there is no
00:27:23.430 --> 00:27:25.210
master data. So bringing all of that together
00:27:25.210 --> 00:27:28.109
and convincing people that this was going to
00:27:28.109 --> 00:27:29.470
be different than the last time they talked to
00:27:29.470 --> 00:27:33.829
the consultant about change, you know? That happens
00:27:33.829 --> 00:27:36.869
all the time. Any corporation you've ever worked
00:27:36.869 --> 00:27:38.509
for, if you've never worked for a corporation,
00:27:38.730 --> 00:27:41.750
you get a lot of these seminars. So, yeah, I
00:27:41.750 --> 00:27:45.569
could you get some change fatigue at some point.
00:27:45.950 --> 00:27:47.950
Specifically, like for me, I came out of procurement.
00:27:48.170 --> 00:27:50.589
That was my background. And it was always change
00:27:50.589 --> 00:27:52.890
management every year because you you don't have
00:27:52.890 --> 00:27:56.410
actual authority to make these changes. You have
00:27:56.410 --> 00:27:59.559
to be really good at. influencing people around
00:27:59.559 --> 00:28:03.380
you to be on your side. So I love this stuff.
00:28:04.519 --> 00:28:07.319
It's a big part of negotiation. It's a big part
00:28:07.319 --> 00:28:10.960
of leading. It's a big part of just being successful
00:28:10.960 --> 00:28:14.779
in my opinion. So I love the idea behind the
00:28:14.779 --> 00:28:17.980
podcast for sure. But I think I saw somewhere,
00:28:18.160 --> 00:28:21.140
I forget what it was, but somebody said like,
00:28:21.200 --> 00:28:24.079
don't follow your dreams. Figure out what you're
00:28:24.079 --> 00:28:27.140
good at and then be really, really good at those
00:28:27.140 --> 00:28:29.609
things. But when those things connect together,
00:28:29.849 --> 00:28:32.849
that's great. Like you can't really do much better
00:28:32.849 --> 00:28:34.910
than that is when you can find something that
00:28:34.910 --> 00:28:37.269
you're really good at, but it just so happens
00:28:37.269 --> 00:28:39.269
to be something that you really are interested
00:28:39.269 --> 00:28:42.390
in too. Yeah. That is the Holy Grail. So I'm
00:28:42.390 --> 00:28:45.190
happy you seem to have kind of found your middle
00:28:45.190 --> 00:28:47.990
ground here. I think so. With the recycling especially,
00:28:48.329 --> 00:28:52.500
we need packaging. And the world, if we didn't
00:28:52.500 --> 00:28:55.619
have packaging, you know, medical equipment wouldn't
00:28:55.619 --> 00:28:57.799
make it to places it needs to make it. Food wouldn't
00:28:57.799 --> 00:29:00.079
make it to places that it needs to make it. And
00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:04.940
we need we need it. And I love being a part of
00:29:04.940 --> 00:29:09.039
sort of making it diverted from landfill. Right.
00:29:09.140 --> 00:29:11.099
I mean, I think the word sustainability is too
00:29:11.099 --> 00:29:14.799
big of an umbrella. And sometimes they sort of
00:29:14.799 --> 00:29:18.180
different like pathways sort of contradict and
00:29:18.180 --> 00:29:21.480
like work against each other. But I do believe,
00:29:21.720 --> 00:29:25.000
I mean, in my spare time between like deciding
00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:28.000
I was going to do this and like leaving Coca
00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:31.019
-Cola, I read Garbology. I don't know what that
00:29:31.019 --> 00:29:34.259
is. It's a book. It's like the study of garbage.
00:29:34.700 --> 00:29:38.359
Okay. Interesting. I know, super nerdy. Yeah.
00:29:38.460 --> 00:29:40.559
And I was like, yeah, I mean, these landfills.
00:29:40.859 --> 00:29:44.109
So it's fascinating kind of understanding. Like
00:29:44.109 --> 00:29:46.990
what's going into them and how much really with
00:29:46.990 --> 00:29:50.750
today's technology could be diverted. Like compost
00:29:50.750 --> 00:29:52.970
or like compostable material is a very large
00:29:52.970 --> 00:29:54.990
percentage of what's in the landfill. Yeah. Like
00:29:54.990 --> 00:29:57.650
PET, very large percentage of what's in the landfill.
00:29:58.130 --> 00:30:00.529
Aluminum, paper. These are all things that like
00:30:00.529 --> 00:30:04.130
today people can make a profit on if they were
00:30:04.130 --> 00:30:06.849
to recycle them. Right. And if we could at least
00:30:06.849 --> 00:30:09.670
just capture that. Right. Like what a big change.
00:30:09.769 --> 00:30:11.609
I would almost take out like 50 percent of what's
00:30:11.609 --> 00:30:14.519
in a landfill. Yeah. You know. So it gives it
00:30:14.519 --> 00:30:16.779
gave me maybe not everybody else, but gave me
00:30:16.779 --> 00:30:19.539
a lot of hope that if we don't need a ton of
00:30:19.539 --> 00:30:22.000
innovation to actually solve a large percentage
00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:25.299
of this problem, that is hopeful to me. We need
00:30:25.299 --> 00:30:28.960
scale. Yeah. You know, and we need people collaborating
00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:31.099
and working together and communicating. Yeah.
00:30:31.160 --> 00:30:33.720
So my computer went from 30 percent battery to
00:30:33.720 --> 00:30:37.539
two. So, yeah, I'm going to give you right now
00:30:37.539 --> 00:30:40.420
to talk about your podcast, where people can
00:30:40.420 --> 00:30:42.740
find it, how people can get in touch with you.
00:30:43.130 --> 00:30:45.869
And then any last words that you'd like to add?
00:30:45.990 --> 00:30:49.250
I would say podcast is at, I mean, it's wherever
00:30:49.250 --> 00:30:53.049
you find podcasts, Change Cycle. It's also csyimpact
00:30:53.049 --> 00:30:56.109
.com slash podcast. And you can also find me
00:30:56.109 --> 00:30:59.029
there. I'm also on LinkedIn, Christine Yeager.
00:30:59.130 --> 00:31:03.390
But I think my final word is in the space of
00:31:03.390 --> 00:31:08.430
redefining plastic, I think like for you personally,
00:31:08.529 --> 00:31:10.410
if you're listening, think about the trade -offs
00:31:10.410 --> 00:31:13.720
of. the decisions you're making. Where does plastic
00:31:13.720 --> 00:31:17.240
play a role in the trash that you're making?
00:31:17.319 --> 00:31:20.579
And where does reuse, where does reduce play
00:31:20.579 --> 00:31:24.519
a role? Yeah. Well, Christine, I love working
00:31:24.519 --> 00:31:27.299
with you. I appreciate you spending this 30 minutes
00:31:27.299 --> 00:31:31.319
with me today before my battery died on my laptop.
00:31:31.559 --> 00:31:35.400
The battery lasts like 30 minutes. But this has
00:31:35.400 --> 00:31:37.500
been the Redefining Plastics podcast. Thank you
00:31:37.500 --> 00:31:39.940
so much. And we'll be back soon. All right. Thanks.
00:31:39.980 --> 00:31:41.539
If you want to learn more about the plastics
00:31:41.539 --> 00:31:44.960
industry, recycling, check out these other videos.
00:31:45.220 --> 00:31:46.579
Please like and subscribe.
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.320
Welcome to Daddy's Podcast. This is the Redefining
00:00:05.320 --> 00:00:10.779
Plastics Podcast. Welcome to the Redefining Plastics
00:00:10.779 --> 00:00:13.080
Podcast. My name is Justin Riney. I'm here with
00:00:13.080 --> 00:00:15.699
Christine Yeager. Christine and I have worked
00:00:15.699 --> 00:00:18.079
together on a couple of different projects, and
00:00:18.079 --> 00:00:20.820
we are both here at the National Plastics Conference,
00:00:21.039 --> 00:00:23.739
and we're at National Plastics Conference Live
00:00:23.739 --> 00:00:26.620
recording podcast episodes, and we're having
00:00:26.620 --> 00:00:28.480
a blast doing it. So, Christine, thank you for
00:00:28.480 --> 00:00:30.920
joining the show. Yeah, I'm happy to be here.
00:00:31.300 --> 00:00:34.039
Yeah, I mean, I'm in my hometown, so that's nice.
00:00:34.359 --> 00:00:37.039
And so far I've had some pretty interesting conversations.
00:00:37.700 --> 00:00:40.000
Yeah, I'm excited to – I've never been to the
00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:42.159
National Plastics Conference. Me either. So this
00:00:42.159 --> 00:00:45.219
is a first for both of us. So you and I are doing
00:00:45.219 --> 00:00:48.100
a lot of work on EPR, and you've got a lot of
00:00:48.100 --> 00:00:51.039
experience in EPR, and you know more about it
00:00:51.039 --> 00:00:54.500
than I do. So I've got a lot of questions that
00:00:54.500 --> 00:00:56.659
we're going to ask. The way I like to do these
00:00:56.659 --> 00:00:58.409
things is it's a conversation. We're just going
00:00:58.409 --> 00:01:00.990
to talk about things and whatever comes up, that's
00:01:00.990 --> 00:01:02.990
what we're going to talk about. All right. But
00:01:02.990 --> 00:01:05.849
first off, how did you get into this wild world
00:01:05.849 --> 00:01:12.670
of EPR? Great question. So in 2020, it was a
00:01:12.670 --> 00:01:16.209
pandemic and my job was long range planning and
00:01:16.209 --> 00:01:19.150
annual planning, which if you remember, all plans
00:01:19.150 --> 00:01:22.090
went out the window. Exactly right. Long range
00:01:22.090 --> 00:01:24.829
planning. It's like, what is it? The fools make
00:01:24.829 --> 00:01:27.140
plans? Yeah. Something like that. Yeah. It was
00:01:27.140 --> 00:01:29.280
like week by week planning at that stage. So
00:01:29.280 --> 00:01:33.719
I raised my hand for a stretch assignment to
00:01:33.719 --> 00:01:37.079
dive into, you know, if we ever get out of this,
00:01:37.299 --> 00:01:39.579
what will World Without Waste look like? Which
00:01:39.579 --> 00:01:41.599
at the time, Coca -Cola had a World Without Waste
00:01:41.599 --> 00:01:45.140
commitment, which had many faceted things. And
00:01:45.140 --> 00:01:47.120
one of them was to collect every bottle and can
00:01:47.120 --> 00:01:57.659
that they sold into the market. One company can
00:01:57.659 --> 00:02:01.140
only do so much. And then it became supporting
00:02:01.140 --> 00:02:03.599
well -structured extended producer responsibility
00:02:03.599 --> 00:02:06.180
and deposit return schemes. And so I started
00:02:06.180 --> 00:02:07.900
to learn even what that meant. My background
00:02:07.900 --> 00:02:11.360
was in packaging. It was in master data, implementations,
00:02:11.360 --> 00:02:14.419
technology. All exciting stuff. I got to say.
00:02:14.580 --> 00:02:16.319
I mean, you need to understand your data in order
00:02:16.319 --> 00:02:19.000
to report this stuff, right? Right. So I started
00:02:19.000 --> 00:02:22.039
learning about EPR and I was hooked. And I left
00:02:22.039 --> 00:02:24.520
Coca -Cola and I started working as an independent
00:02:24.520 --> 00:02:26.699
consulting wit. consultant with Circular Action
00:02:26.699 --> 00:02:28.400
Alliance, the approved producer responsibility
00:02:28.400 --> 00:02:31.340
organization. And at the time, they weren't selected
00:02:31.340 --> 00:02:34.659
yet in California. So it was very early on. And,
00:02:34.840 --> 00:02:38.919
you know, I just, I wanted to be part of something
00:02:38.919 --> 00:02:41.219
that was starting action in this space instead
00:02:41.219 --> 00:02:44.419
of talking about the thing that we're talking
00:02:44.419 --> 00:02:46.599
about over and over again. We're good at that.
00:02:46.699 --> 00:02:49.560
I think packaging people, because I come out
00:02:49.560 --> 00:02:52.729
of the packaging industry. And we're very good
00:02:52.729 --> 00:02:55.189
at talking about things that may happen and never
00:02:55.189 --> 00:02:58.530
really good about executing on those things when
00:02:58.530 --> 00:03:00.949
they happen. But we're very good at having the
00:03:00.949 --> 00:03:03.469
conversations up front. So extended producer
00:03:03.469 --> 00:03:08.370
responsibility. My experience, most brands that
00:03:08.370 --> 00:03:11.289
I talk to, national brands, they know what's
00:03:11.289 --> 00:03:15.349
going on. They have a general idea of what extended
00:03:15.349 --> 00:03:18.990
producer responsibility is. Regional brands have
00:03:18.990 --> 00:03:21.979
no clue. You got to be really busy right now.
00:03:22.900 --> 00:03:25.400
There's a lot of people that don't know. And
00:03:25.400 --> 00:03:28.500
then when you look at this patchwork of regulations
00:03:28.500 --> 00:03:32.120
across the country, Oregon is very different
00:03:32.120 --> 00:03:34.819
than California. California is more of a ban
00:03:34.819 --> 00:03:37.460
bill, if we're being serious. And then Colorado
00:03:37.460 --> 00:03:41.599
is a little more, it's in the middle. It's pretty
00:03:41.599 --> 00:03:44.379
good. I think it's actually pretty good EPR law.
00:03:45.319 --> 00:03:48.919
How do you manage that? When you're talking to
00:03:48.919 --> 00:03:51.319
people, because they ask you, I'm sure, they
00:03:51.319 --> 00:03:53.139
come to you and say, what is EPR? And then you
00:03:53.139 --> 00:03:55.460
have to say, well, what state are we talking
00:03:55.460 --> 00:03:59.900
about? What exactly are you selling? How is that
00:03:59.900 --> 00:04:01.659
going to work? So how does the whole process
00:04:01.659 --> 00:04:05.039
work when you're dealing with clients? Good question.
00:04:05.139 --> 00:04:08.900
I think some clients or some people, producers,
00:04:09.180 --> 00:04:12.409
are sort of waiting to get in trouble. I like
00:04:12.409 --> 00:04:14.889
that idea. That's exactly what I would do. Some
00:04:14.889 --> 00:04:18.490
producers are already doing a lot of really great
00:04:18.490 --> 00:04:22.250
work and using recycled content, but they're
00:04:22.250 --> 00:04:25.129
still getting hit with crippling fees because
00:04:25.129 --> 00:04:28.050
they're small. And then, like you said, there's
00:04:28.050 --> 00:04:31.089
a lot of bigger producers that have been a part
00:04:31.089 --> 00:04:33.089
of the conversation for a long time. But even
00:04:33.089 --> 00:04:37.009
they are sort of struggling with where do I focus
00:04:37.009 --> 00:04:40.579
my time and energy knowing that. this, I have
00:04:40.579 --> 00:04:42.860
a national supply chain and this is a state by
00:04:42.860 --> 00:04:45.600
state problem. And where does it really matter
00:04:45.600 --> 00:04:49.420
to dive in? And where does it really matter that
00:04:49.420 --> 00:04:53.319
I can maybe just pay the fee? Yeah. Right. So
00:04:53.319 --> 00:04:56.300
it starts usually with how much do you know about
00:04:56.300 --> 00:04:59.560
EPR? Like, do you even know what that is? Can
00:04:59.560 --> 00:05:02.480
you explain to me in two sentences what the idea
00:05:02.480 --> 00:05:04.699
behind it is? And if you can't, then it's a different
00:05:04.699 --> 00:05:07.939
conversation. Exactly. I like that. And most
00:05:07.939 --> 00:05:10.639
of them say, no, I don't know what that is. I
00:05:10.639 --> 00:05:12.279
mean, honestly, they even come to me and they
00:05:12.279 --> 00:05:14.480
don't know what it is. They're just like, I hear
00:05:14.480 --> 00:05:16.279
that I'm supposed to, like, comply with something.
00:05:16.980 --> 00:05:18.720
So then, yeah, I mean, I started the basics,
00:05:18.779 --> 00:05:20.899
which is extended producer responsibility is
00:05:20.899 --> 00:05:23.639
a way to shift funding mechanism from municipalities
00:05:23.639 --> 00:05:28.180
and governments to producers that make and sell
00:05:28.180 --> 00:05:31.629
paper and packaging. For waste management. And
00:05:31.629 --> 00:05:35.269
the idea is great. I'm going to say it on this
00:05:35.269 --> 00:05:37.069
show specifically because a lot of people in
00:05:37.069 --> 00:05:39.709
the plastics industry, either they love or hate
00:05:39.709 --> 00:05:43.290
it. I personally like EPR and the idea behind
00:05:43.290 --> 00:05:46.110
it if it's executed well. Anyway, continue. Yeah.
00:05:46.250 --> 00:05:50.670
And exactly. And then it gets into, well, I need
00:05:50.670 --> 00:05:52.350
to understand your business a little better to
00:05:52.350 --> 00:05:54.649
understand where you may or may not be obligated
00:05:54.649 --> 00:05:57.449
because it is nuanced. And then eventually we
00:05:57.449 --> 00:06:00.430
get to a point where they say. oh my God, this
00:06:00.430 --> 00:06:03.230
is so confusing. How am I supposed to do this,
00:06:03.410 --> 00:06:08.029
right? I have one client who pays me to help
00:06:08.029 --> 00:06:10.709
them, but their fees are actually very low, right?
00:06:10.829 --> 00:06:13.750
So I have to justify that paying me is worth
00:06:13.750 --> 00:06:16.649
it. But at the flip side, if they didn't report
00:06:16.649 --> 00:06:18.550
the way that they do, they would just be paying
00:06:18.550 --> 00:06:20.290
a flat fee, which would be much higher. Yeah.
00:06:20.329 --> 00:06:22.589
So you're saving them money. It's a cost avoidance
00:06:22.589 --> 00:06:24.610
for the business. Yeah, exactly. Did you ever
00:06:24.610 --> 00:06:27.990
anticipate? In your wildest of dreams, when you
00:06:27.990 --> 00:06:31.269
were, let's say, 18 -year -old Christine, that
00:06:31.269 --> 00:06:33.649
you were going to be consulting people on how
00:06:33.649 --> 00:06:40.949
to deal with a massive new hackaging regulation
00:06:40.949 --> 00:06:45.470
schema. Was that in the back of your mind? Like,
00:06:45.509 --> 00:06:47.529
you know what? I feel like I'm going to be helping
00:06:47.529 --> 00:06:51.790
people deal with something massive when I'm a
00:06:51.790 --> 00:06:55.149
professional. When I did leave, so I went to
00:06:55.149 --> 00:06:58.250
Clemson undergrad and my degree was graphic communications,
00:06:58.509 --> 00:07:00.589
which was effectively like commercial printing,
00:07:00.769 --> 00:07:03.829
right? So I left undergrad and I started, Twitter
00:07:03.829 --> 00:07:06.529
was new. I started a Twitter account making trash.
00:07:07.029 --> 00:07:10.689
Okay. So I felt, I do feel like I knew I would
00:07:10.689 --> 00:07:14.350
be working with the idea of like, I love being
00:07:14.350 --> 00:07:16.569
in the packaging space. I love seeing my product,
00:07:16.649 --> 00:07:19.250
the thing that I made on the shelf. Yeah. But
00:07:19.250 --> 00:07:23.500
I also am very aware that. It's trash. And so
00:07:23.500 --> 00:07:28.319
how do I avoid it being trash and divert it from
00:07:28.319 --> 00:07:30.139
landfills? I knew that that was going to probably
00:07:30.139 --> 00:07:32.800
be in my future. Honestly, I didn't think that
00:07:32.800 --> 00:07:34.399
I would stay working at Coca -Cola as long as
00:07:34.399 --> 00:07:37.779
I did. I was there over 11 years. And I think
00:07:37.779 --> 00:07:41.620
Coca -Cola does a lot of incredible stuff that
00:07:41.620 --> 00:07:45.199
it's not able to talk about because, you know,
00:07:45.240 --> 00:07:47.939
they get lawsuits. But yeah, PR would not work
00:07:47.939 --> 00:07:52.430
very well either. I get it. I am very now very
00:07:52.430 --> 00:07:54.269
aware of like what types of questions lawyers
00:07:54.269 --> 00:07:56.129
ask before you say something publicly. Yeah.
00:07:57.129 --> 00:07:59.110
I get that all the time. What are you going to
00:07:59.110 --> 00:08:02.310
talk about? And you're going to say this publicly
00:08:02.310 --> 00:08:05.509
and it's going to be recorded. Yeah. Yeah. So
00:08:05.509 --> 00:08:08.449
I think I knew that, but I did not know. I mean,
00:08:08.490 --> 00:08:11.550
I didn't know anything. I honestly, I think that
00:08:11.550 --> 00:08:13.310
the more I've gotten into the sustainability
00:08:13.310 --> 00:08:17.209
space, the more I sort of opened my eyes to the
00:08:17.209 --> 00:08:21.089
fact that you have to be a part of. policy and
00:08:21.089 --> 00:08:25.350
government relations in order to actively and
00:08:25.350 --> 00:08:27.470
successfully make change in the sustainability
00:08:27.470 --> 00:08:31.209
space. People talk about like the three -legged
00:08:31.209 --> 00:08:34.029
stool of like government, nonprofits, business.
00:08:34.149 --> 00:08:37.529
And I think that there's no truer thing that
00:08:37.529 --> 00:08:39.129
has to happen in the sustainability space. And
00:08:39.129 --> 00:08:41.330
all three of those have to work together in order
00:08:41.330 --> 00:08:44.149
to actually make the right type of change. Exactly
00:08:44.149 --> 00:08:46.850
right. Yeah. So you and I are doing some work.
00:08:47.289 --> 00:08:50.090
on behalf of the Polystyrene Recycling Alliance.
00:08:50.590 --> 00:08:55.250
And we are working on producer fees in Oregon
00:08:55.250 --> 00:08:56.929
specifically. That's where we started because
00:08:56.929 --> 00:08:58.909
that's the one that's active right now. Oregon's
00:08:58.909 --> 00:09:06.070
EPR law is active today. When you look at fees
00:09:06.070 --> 00:09:10.929
and how they're built, I think most people will
00:09:10.929 --> 00:09:12.649
look at that and say, well, that's the fee. I'm
00:09:12.649 --> 00:09:16.389
just going to pay it. what would you say to somebody
00:09:16.389 --> 00:09:18.669
that says, well, it's a fee. I need to pay it.
00:09:18.690 --> 00:09:24.769
It's part of a law. We personally, PSRA, don't
00:09:24.769 --> 00:09:27.929
like the fees that we were assessed because we
00:09:27.929 --> 00:09:30.149
didn't think they were based on fact. And so
00:09:30.149 --> 00:09:32.309
we're working with you to make sure that that
00:09:32.309 --> 00:09:35.909
misinformation and misunderstanding of our products
00:09:35.909 --> 00:09:39.710
is remedied. Do you think enough people are actually
00:09:39.710 --> 00:09:43.669
proactively trying to work with these states
00:09:43.669 --> 00:09:45.889
to make sure that the data is correct and make
00:09:45.889 --> 00:09:49.750
sure these fees are correct? And if not, how
00:09:49.750 --> 00:09:51.529
do they get in contact with you so they can do?
00:09:53.049 --> 00:09:57.529
I don't think there's a lot of people, let alone
00:09:57.529 --> 00:10:01.250
companies, that would think to come together
00:10:01.250 --> 00:10:04.350
and say, I want to challenge something that's
00:10:04.350 --> 00:10:06.309
put out by the government effectively, right?
00:10:07.309 --> 00:10:11.000
But... CAA, Circular Action Alliance, is a producer
00:10:11.000 --> 00:10:13.519
responsibility organization and its obligation
00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:16.720
is to the producers. Right. And so the producers
00:10:16.720 --> 00:10:20.419
should believe that the fees are fair. And it
00:10:20.419 --> 00:10:23.799
is well known fact that there is a lot of missing
00:10:23.799 --> 00:10:27.000
data in the recycling world because, you know,
00:10:27.159 --> 00:10:31.159
it's how many you said there's 30 ,000, 6 ,000,
00:10:31.159 --> 00:10:36.139
all different codes. Yeah. So, like, that's a
00:10:36.139 --> 00:10:38.899
lot of different MRFs that are not funded to
00:10:38.899 --> 00:10:42.100
collect data, let alone to, you know, have an
00:10:42.100 --> 00:10:45.019
optical sorter maybe, right? So there's not a
00:10:45.019 --> 00:10:46.779
lot of data out there. And the people that are
00:10:46.779 --> 00:10:48.960
running MRFs are not generally spreadsheet people.
00:10:49.120 --> 00:10:53.159
Not at all. Not at all. Not to disparage MRF
00:10:53.159 --> 00:10:55.480
people because they're hardworking, great individuals.
00:10:56.750 --> 00:10:58.830
They're there to solve problems. Yeah. They're
00:10:58.830 --> 00:11:01.490
not going to sit there and track all of the data
00:11:01.490 --> 00:11:03.230
that comes through. Oh, yeah. That's why you
00:11:03.230 --> 00:11:05.710
have waste characterization studies, and those
00:11:05.710 --> 00:11:08.409
are difficult. Yeah. Because you've got a sample
00:11:08.409 --> 00:11:10.169
size, and you've got everything else that goes
00:11:10.169 --> 00:11:13.490
along with it. And if the organization that's
00:11:13.490 --> 00:11:17.009
doing it doesn't know what they're doing, it's
00:11:17.009 --> 00:11:21.009
incumbent upon the industry to do something about
00:11:21.009 --> 00:11:25.059
that. We have to control our data. We, the big
00:11:25.059 --> 00:11:28.659
plastics industry, have to own our own data.
00:11:29.139 --> 00:11:32.639
And so my experience is we're not very good at
00:11:32.639 --> 00:11:35.960
that. Would you say that's correct? A lot of
00:11:35.960 --> 00:11:39.919
EPR laws talk about the fact that there's not
00:11:39.919 --> 00:11:43.279
good data. Like it's in the law, it's in the
00:11:43.279 --> 00:11:48.159
program plan. And so the concept behind EPR that
00:11:48.159 --> 00:11:51.480
I think... is a good concept is that it's meant
00:11:51.480 --> 00:11:53.679
to be self -policing. And I think this is an
00:11:53.679 --> 00:11:56.679
example of like, if you find it to be unfair,
00:11:56.980 --> 00:11:59.820
then you are spending the money to invest in
00:11:59.820 --> 00:12:02.559
making it more fair, right? So that is an aspect
00:12:02.559 --> 00:12:07.399
of the self -policing. There should be more collective
00:12:07.399 --> 00:12:10.820
industry action. So there are organizations out
00:12:10.820 --> 00:12:13.299
there that are bringing together and finding
00:12:13.299 --> 00:12:16.720
solutions, I think, to like, there's the U .S.
00:12:16.879 --> 00:12:19.799
Flexible Film Initiative. There's Pact Collective
00:12:19.799 --> 00:12:21.100
that's bringing together the beauty industry.
00:12:21.240 --> 00:12:24.379
So there's these groups that are seeing that
00:12:24.379 --> 00:12:27.259
their material is considered not recyclable.
00:12:27.399 --> 00:12:31.899
And so how do we accelerate the solution? And
00:12:31.899 --> 00:12:34.720
then what I just hope is that Circular Action
00:12:34.720 --> 00:12:38.159
Alliance is able to make space for innovative
00:12:38.159 --> 00:12:41.600
solutions. Because the bills are written to focus
00:12:41.600 --> 00:12:46.720
on curbside recycling, which... If the system
00:12:46.720 --> 00:12:50.139
were going to work, it would have worked by now.
00:12:50.379 --> 00:12:53.440
So a fact I like to throw out there to people
00:12:53.440 --> 00:12:56.460
is that less than 10%, I think it's actually
00:12:56.460 --> 00:12:59.539
8 % of all recycling that happens in the U .S.
00:12:59.700 --> 00:13:02.059
goes through your curbside bin. All the rest
00:13:02.059 --> 00:13:05.299
of it is commercial, like back of house. So all
00:13:05.299 --> 00:13:07.039
the stuff that we're doing with the EPS industry
00:13:07.039 --> 00:13:10.519
where they're packing up into bricks all of the
00:13:10.519 --> 00:13:12.860
EPS, the loose EPS, and then shipping it around
00:13:12.860 --> 00:13:15.919
the country. Because that stuff's cleaner. It's
00:13:15.919 --> 00:13:20.480
easier to manage. Yep. And you can track it.
00:13:21.200 --> 00:13:25.419
When you look at MRFs, it's contaminated. And
00:13:25.419 --> 00:13:28.720
single stream, I've been on a soapbox for a long
00:13:28.720 --> 00:13:32.440
time that I hate single stream recycling. And
00:13:32.440 --> 00:13:34.480
it's actually one of the worst things that this
00:13:34.480 --> 00:13:37.370
country has done. Because if you look at Spain,
00:13:37.429 --> 00:13:41.590
you look at Germany, wherever you go in Europe,
00:13:41.730 --> 00:13:44.070
you've got all the different bins. And then you
00:13:44.070 --> 00:13:46.710
put this package there, that package there, and
00:13:46.710 --> 00:13:49.850
these people are good. They're smart enough and
00:13:49.850 --> 00:13:52.950
active enough to actually do that. Yeah. So when
00:13:52.950 --> 00:13:58.509
you look at making fees based on 8 % to 10 %
00:13:58.509 --> 00:14:01.389
of all recycling that's happening, would you
00:14:01.389 --> 00:14:04.230
say that's a fair way of going about making?
00:14:06.449 --> 00:14:11.070
Am I crazy? But at the same time, you have to
00:14:11.070 --> 00:14:12.830
give them credit because that's the data that
00:14:12.830 --> 00:14:16.169
they have. Yeah. How are they going to know what
00:14:16.169 --> 00:14:19.789
Best Buy, Home Depot or these distribution centers
00:14:19.789 --> 00:14:23.289
are doing? Yeah. So you have to manage, like
00:14:23.289 --> 00:14:26.789
control the controllables. But at the same time,
00:14:26.789 --> 00:14:28.909
I want credit for all that stuff that's going
00:14:28.909 --> 00:14:32.029
out the back of these distribution centers. And
00:14:32.029 --> 00:14:34.960
it just, it doesn't work out very well. I mean,
00:14:34.980 --> 00:14:36.740
look, CAA is in a tough position. Yeah, they
00:14:36.740 --> 00:14:39.120
are. Right? I give them a lot of, I try to give
00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:42.120
them grace. Yeah. Because it is tough. It's tough.
00:14:42.200 --> 00:14:45.700
And they're like, a lot of them have been in
00:14:45.700 --> 00:14:48.679
the industry a long time, but they're a new organization
00:14:48.679 --> 00:14:52.620
and they have to navigate that on top of trying
00:14:52.620 --> 00:14:55.440
to change the recycling system that's been broken
00:14:55.440 --> 00:14:59.799
for a long time. Yeah. And so I have been on
00:14:59.799 --> 00:15:02.960
a kick for a long time talking about, you know,
00:15:03.230 --> 00:15:07.110
Recycling is real using the plastics terminology.
00:15:09.250 --> 00:15:12.129
We don't do enough of it. We need to do more
00:15:12.129 --> 00:15:14.889
of it, but we also need to reduce and reuse.
00:15:15.450 --> 00:15:18.909
I'm in the plastics industry. I want to protect
00:15:18.909 --> 00:15:21.429
the plastics industry. And some people in the
00:15:21.429 --> 00:15:23.730
plastics industry, when you say, I want to reduce
00:15:23.730 --> 00:15:26.269
plastic usage, they think of that as like a bad
00:15:26.269 --> 00:15:28.610
thing. I'm like, no, we have to change the narrative
00:15:28.610 --> 00:15:30.690
around our products and we have to be serious
00:15:30.690 --> 00:15:32.940
about. You were talking about the three legs
00:15:32.940 --> 00:15:35.899
of the stool earlier. I look at it the same way
00:15:35.899 --> 00:15:38.879
with the reduce, reuse, recycle. We do need to
00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:40.519
reduce the amount of packaging that we're using
00:15:40.519 --> 00:15:42.679
wherever possible. And I think the industry does
00:15:42.679 --> 00:15:45.000
a pretty good job with that light weighting and
00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:46.500
everything else. Well, because there's a cost
00:15:46.500 --> 00:15:49.860
savings. Exactly right. When it's in your best
00:15:49.860 --> 00:15:51.740
interest, typically that works out really well.
00:15:52.100 --> 00:15:57.220
But reducing too, if we're going to win a narrative
00:15:57.220 --> 00:16:00.350
battle. We have to show that we're serious about
00:16:00.350 --> 00:16:02.549
this, right? We have to show that we actually
00:16:02.549 --> 00:16:06.490
care. Yeah. And if we don't, we're going to keep
00:16:06.490 --> 00:16:09.970
getting kicked in the teeth. And if we like that,
00:16:10.029 --> 00:16:12.149
that's one thing. And if we want to keep doing
00:16:12.149 --> 00:16:13.929
that, that's one thing. But I just think that
00:16:13.929 --> 00:16:17.850
there's so much that we could be doing, even
00:16:17.850 --> 00:16:20.470
just from a PR perspective. Not to say that we're
00:16:20.470 --> 00:16:24.070
just doing it for PR, but you have the net benefit
00:16:24.070 --> 00:16:27.029
of people seeing that you actually mean what
00:16:27.029 --> 00:16:30.029
you say. Yeah. And so I just I don't know where
00:16:30.029 --> 00:16:32.029
I'm going with all that other than to say that
00:16:32.029 --> 00:16:36.610
we really need to be better as an industry on
00:16:36.610 --> 00:16:41.970
telling our story and solving problems. And I
00:16:41.970 --> 00:16:44.769
think what you're doing is solving problems for
00:16:44.769 --> 00:16:48.169
people because this is a problem. If you don't
00:16:48.169 --> 00:16:50.389
know these bills, you don't know these laws,
00:16:50.649 --> 00:16:53.259
what are you going to do? You're going to have
00:16:53.259 --> 00:16:55.039
to find somebody that does know or you're going
00:16:55.039 --> 00:16:56.620
to have to hire four people to figure it out.
00:16:57.179 --> 00:17:00.179
So how do they get in touch with you to do that?
00:17:00.679 --> 00:17:02.299
Well, first I want to comment on the solving
00:17:02.299 --> 00:17:03.980
problems things. I think you have to solve problems
00:17:03.980 --> 00:17:06.859
first and then tell the story. I like that. Right.
00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:09.960
And I like to say you have to do, you have to
00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:13.140
solve the unsexy stuff with a little bit of the
00:17:13.140 --> 00:17:15.119
sexy stuff. And then you talk about the sexy
00:17:15.119 --> 00:17:18.019
stuff. Yeah. Because if you have the unsexy stuff,
00:17:18.140 --> 00:17:22.319
the like boring master data. like the boring
00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:26.140
infrastructure that can't be a headline, then
00:17:26.140 --> 00:17:29.759
your headline will work. Because if you don't
00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:31.500
have that other stuff, then people will see through
00:17:31.500 --> 00:17:34.500
the headline, right? So solve the problem first,
00:17:34.579 --> 00:17:39.339
and then I think pick your shining star and talk
00:17:39.339 --> 00:17:43.920
about that. And I think it is hard work, and
00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:46.119
I am here to help, for sure. You can go to my
00:17:46.119 --> 00:17:49.279
website, csyimpact .com. Or you can go to my
00:17:49.279 --> 00:17:51.579
podcast, Change Cycle. That was the next thing
00:17:51.579 --> 00:17:53.819
I wanted to talk about. So let's just roll right
00:17:53.819 --> 00:17:56.819
into that. Sure. All right. So you've got a podcast
00:17:56.819 --> 00:17:58.559
you just mentioned. I'm going to give you more
00:17:58.559 --> 00:18:00.420
time to talk about the actual podcast and where
00:18:00.420 --> 00:18:03.920
people can find it. But I'm curious as to why.
00:18:04.119 --> 00:18:09.240
Yeah. Why podcast? Yeah. Well, I'm a Leo, a Texan,
00:18:09.240 --> 00:18:12.720
an extrovert, and you're the bull. Yeah. So I
00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:14.930
got a lot to say. I don't know what half of that
00:18:14.930 --> 00:18:18.049
stuff just meant, but I'm sure that all equates
00:18:18.049 --> 00:18:21.109
to your conclusion there. Really, I started it
00:18:21.109 --> 00:18:23.490
because I was going through my own personal change.
00:18:23.730 --> 00:18:29.190
So I left Coca -Cola in March of 23, but I made
00:18:29.190 --> 00:18:31.650
the decision in November. I don't think they'll
00:18:31.650 --> 00:18:33.509
do this again, but they had a voluntary separation
00:18:33.509 --> 00:18:36.109
package. You could sort of opt into the reorg.
00:18:36.269 --> 00:18:38.950
You got two extra months pay. And this time when
00:18:38.950 --> 00:18:40.869
they did it, you got your bonus. So I walked
00:18:40.869 --> 00:18:42.970
out of there with 14 months pay and my bonus.
00:18:43.640 --> 00:18:44.900
And I was like, what do I want to do with my
00:18:44.900 --> 00:18:47.380
life? Where do I want to live? How do I want
00:18:47.380 --> 00:18:50.079
to spend my time? Right. And I learned a ton
00:18:50.079 --> 00:18:52.319
at Coca -Cola and I had a great career there.
00:18:52.539 --> 00:18:54.640
But as I said, I just felt like I was hitting
00:18:54.640 --> 00:18:58.599
a wall and I wanted to drive change. And so with
00:18:58.599 --> 00:19:01.299
that came, what do I mean when I want to drive
00:19:01.299 --> 00:19:03.519
change? What do I what does that even look like?
00:19:03.539 --> 00:19:05.759
How do you do that? And so I started thinking
00:19:05.759 --> 00:19:07.500
a lot about how nice it would be to hear about
00:19:07.500 --> 00:19:09.460
other people's experiences going through change.
00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:15.619
Right. And so I decided to start a podcast and
00:19:15.619 --> 00:19:18.200
start the podcast interviews always with the
00:19:18.200 --> 00:19:19.700
same question, which is how do you live with
00:19:19.700 --> 00:19:23.740
intention? Because I think that like learning
00:19:23.740 --> 00:19:26.640
about and understanding what drives people is
00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:30.220
a great way for you to experience change if you're
00:19:30.220 --> 00:19:32.599
focused on like what's your intention, but also
00:19:32.599 --> 00:19:34.480
it kind of helps you better understand what makes
00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:36.440
people tick and how you might be able to change
00:19:36.440 --> 00:19:39.000
their minds, how you might be able to drive change
00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:42.569
in general. That's sort of the impetus for it.
00:19:42.630 --> 00:19:45.829
And then it became Change Cycle because, first
00:19:45.829 --> 00:19:48.349
of all, change is constant. Yes, it is. Right.
00:19:48.430 --> 00:19:51.869
It doesn't stop. And I'm in recycling. So it's
00:19:51.869 --> 00:19:54.390
a nice little play on words. Meta, meta situation.
00:19:54.930 --> 00:19:58.230
But it's also that, like, I think the thing that
00:19:58.230 --> 00:20:00.490
sustainability professionals, because I didn't
00:20:00.490 --> 00:20:02.509
start in sustainability. I started in packaging.
00:20:02.609 --> 00:20:06.329
I went into master data for five years. And then
00:20:06.329 --> 00:20:08.809
I went into annual and long range planning. Right.
00:20:08.910 --> 00:20:10.910
So none of that is sustainability. It was more
00:20:10.910 --> 00:20:13.210
of a core passion that I wove into everything.
00:20:13.309 --> 00:20:16.390
And then I moved into how do we operationalize
00:20:16.390 --> 00:20:18.170
sustainability? How do we move from goals into
00:20:18.170 --> 00:20:21.490
an action plan? And that's my sweet spot. That's
00:20:21.490 --> 00:20:24.490
what I love talking about is like not just what
00:20:24.490 --> 00:20:26.509
do we think we want to do, but like how are we
00:20:26.509 --> 00:20:28.690
actually going to do it? And then how are we
00:20:28.690 --> 00:20:31.140
going to measure and change that? And through
00:20:31.140 --> 00:20:34.119
that whole transition, I would talk to sustainability
00:20:34.119 --> 00:20:36.599
professionals who were really intelligent. Right.
00:20:36.660 --> 00:20:40.880
We're talking like PhDs in hydrology, you know,
00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:43.460
and they had real strategy about what they were
00:20:43.460 --> 00:20:46.180
doing, but they didn't know how to talk to the
00:20:46.180 --> 00:20:49.460
CFO. Right. And so it became very clear that
00:20:49.460 --> 00:20:53.099
all sustainability professionals need to be better
00:20:53.099 --> 00:20:56.039
change management professionals. And so that
00:20:56.039 --> 00:20:59.410
is the like third layer to the. the cake of the
00:20:59.410 --> 00:21:01.910
change cycle is like how do we as an industry
00:21:01.910 --> 00:21:05.390
become better at convincing folks of our bleeding
00:21:05.390 --> 00:21:07.910
heart things you know because you gotta tell
00:21:07.910 --> 00:21:09.849
you gotta convince the cfo i've said multiple
00:21:09.849 --> 00:21:13.410
times i'm not a marketer first off i'm somebody
00:21:13.410 --> 00:21:15.809
that likes talking to people and people seem
00:21:15.809 --> 00:21:18.170
to listen to me when i'm talking about stuff
00:21:18.170 --> 00:21:21.009
so i decided okay podcast that seems like a a
00:21:21.009 --> 00:21:24.869
fun thing to do and i wanted to change the narrative
00:21:24.869 --> 00:21:27.740
around the products I think I run into the same
00:21:27.740 --> 00:21:30.339
problems that your sustainability people are
00:21:30.339 --> 00:21:35.720
because I don't know how to reach the consumer.
00:21:36.500 --> 00:21:38.880
So I'm looking at the same thing that you're
00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:41.380
talking about instead of convincing the CFO because
00:21:41.380 --> 00:21:43.299
I'm good at that. With numbers, I can figure
00:21:43.299 --> 00:21:45.960
that out. Yeah. But how do you change the minds,
00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:48.759
the hearts and soul of the average consumer?
00:21:49.220 --> 00:21:51.500
Yeah. Do you have any thoughts on that? Oh, I
00:21:51.500 --> 00:21:54.140
mean, it turns out that Coca -Cola is quite a
00:21:54.140 --> 00:21:55.720
good marketing company. I'm sure they are. Yeah.
00:21:56.920 --> 00:22:00.299
They sell quite a bit of that stuff that's really
00:22:00.299 --> 00:22:02.720
healthy for you. When you're in those four walls
00:22:02.720 --> 00:22:05.480
and you're not labeled a marketer, you think
00:22:05.480 --> 00:22:07.759
you're not a marketer. But when you leave those
00:22:07.759 --> 00:22:11.839
four walls, you're like, oh, actually, I've been
00:22:11.839 --> 00:22:15.180
ingrained in marketing methodology my entire
00:22:15.180 --> 00:22:18.759
11 years at Coca -Cola. So, I mean, the first
00:22:18.759 --> 00:22:20.279
thing you would do at Coke is start with the
00:22:20.279 --> 00:22:23.039
consumer data, right? Like, what's really interesting,
00:22:23.240 --> 00:22:26.980
first of all, men tell. A few others that I can't
00:22:26.980 --> 00:22:28.420
think of right now. They all put out podcasts
00:22:28.420 --> 00:22:31.619
that cover like consumer data and they talk about
00:22:31.619 --> 00:22:35.359
consumer trends. And all of this stuff, I think,
00:22:35.359 --> 00:22:39.259
is like you have to think about like what and
00:22:39.259 --> 00:22:41.039
sustainable brands does this, too. They put out
00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:44.339
this great data about like what is sort of motivating
00:22:44.339 --> 00:22:47.940
the consumer these days. And then you have to
00:22:47.940 --> 00:22:51.180
kind of think about how you reach them. Right.
00:22:51.279 --> 00:22:54.299
It has to be approachable. Like consumers, I
00:22:54.299 --> 00:22:58.470
think. At a conference on pet food, I saw a study
00:22:58.470 --> 00:23:06.190
done by a group, Nielsen IQ, that the top five
00:23:06.190 --> 00:23:10.390
performing sustainable packaging claims, I don't
00:23:10.390 --> 00:23:12.609
remember exactly which number, but in the top
00:23:12.609 --> 00:23:17.049
five was compostable and recyclable. Nowhere
00:23:17.049 --> 00:23:19.069
do they care about carbon footprint. Exactly
00:23:19.069 --> 00:23:22.569
right. Because even though there is very, very
00:23:22.569 --> 00:23:25.720
little compostable infrastructure, Consumers
00:23:25.720 --> 00:23:29.359
love composting. They understand it. They know
00:23:29.359 --> 00:23:32.779
what dirt is. They see it. And I can do it, so
00:23:32.779 --> 00:23:36.059
anybody can do it. Obviously. I'm not very good
00:23:36.059 --> 00:23:39.420
at many things, but I can compost. And so they
00:23:39.420 --> 00:23:42.559
think that's got to be a good choice. And then
00:23:42.559 --> 00:23:45.960
recycling, they understand what it is. They get
00:23:45.960 --> 00:23:49.619
it. They know that recycling happens. There's
00:23:49.619 --> 00:23:52.480
been enough advertising since the 70s about recycling
00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:55.500
that people understand what that is. And so if
00:23:55.500 --> 00:23:58.079
you can make those claims on your package, the
00:23:58.079 --> 00:24:00.400
next step is then convincing them that it's actually
00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:03.660
happening. Because once you're beyond that like
00:24:03.660 --> 00:24:06.400
basic consumer that just sees the claim and you
00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:08.980
move into somebody who starts to dig deeper,
00:24:09.160 --> 00:24:11.500
then it all falls apart. Because composting,
00:24:11.500 --> 00:24:14.019
you need to have industrial composting in your
00:24:14.019 --> 00:24:15.920
area in order for that package to actually show
00:24:15.920 --> 00:24:18.039
up in a compost. And then that industrial composter
00:24:18.039 --> 00:24:20.980
has to actually accept the packaging. And then
00:24:20.980 --> 00:24:24.240
recycling. You need to believe that it's being
00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:26.799
recycled. And there's a lot of articles out there,
00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:29.980
as we know that. So I think, you know, if you
00:24:29.980 --> 00:24:31.519
really want to reach the consumer, you need to
00:24:31.519 --> 00:24:33.839
reach the consumer where they are. Right. And
00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:37.640
so the podcast would need to be like super approachable
00:24:37.640 --> 00:24:39.900
to the consumer and not just to the industry.
00:24:40.240 --> 00:24:43.460
So you've got to like, I think, talk about like
00:24:43.460 --> 00:24:45.859
you bring in brands or talk about like the things
00:24:45.859 --> 00:24:47.460
that they're going to think, see on the shelf
00:24:47.460 --> 00:24:50.730
and then know. what to do with that, you know?
00:24:50.769 --> 00:24:53.529
I like that. Like Coke did a whole video with
00:24:53.529 --> 00:24:55.589
Bill Nye, the science guy. Yeah. About like what
00:24:55.589 --> 00:24:58.309
recycling is. And it was super successful. It
00:24:58.309 --> 00:25:01.269
showed up on all sorts of like magazines that
00:25:01.269 --> 00:25:03.809
are not like industry recycling magazines, but
00:25:03.809 --> 00:25:06.210
like more consumer facing magazines, like Variety,
00:25:06.329 --> 00:25:08.769
which like normally a video about recycling would
00:25:08.769 --> 00:25:11.289
not show up in Variety. Yeah. You know? Yeah.
00:25:11.349 --> 00:25:16.920
My stuff would never show up. But yeah, I think
00:25:16.920 --> 00:25:19.480
that's always been my biggest struggle with this
00:25:19.480 --> 00:25:21.900
is because I know what my target audience is
00:25:21.900 --> 00:25:24.359
and I know what change I want to incite, which
00:25:24.359 --> 00:25:26.099
is why I like talking to you about this kind
00:25:26.099 --> 00:25:27.819
of stuff because this is what you do. You do
00:25:27.819 --> 00:25:32.480
change. So when you started the idea of putting
00:25:32.480 --> 00:25:35.099
this podcast together and you really wanted to
00:25:35.099 --> 00:25:39.440
nail down a this is my topic, why was it change?
00:25:39.700 --> 00:25:43.279
Like just because you saw a big need there or
00:25:43.279 --> 00:25:46.819
was it something more personal? I would say it's
00:25:46.819 --> 00:25:50.299
more personal. I think, like I said, I was going
00:25:50.299 --> 00:25:54.539
through a lot of change. And like, I mean, starting
00:25:54.539 --> 00:25:57.259
your own business is terrifying. It really is.
00:25:57.359 --> 00:25:58.940
Like I started this, but I'm never going to make
00:25:58.940 --> 00:26:01.740
money on it. So I don't have to worry about that.
00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:07.500
I've got a day job. And so it's and it also comes
00:26:07.500 --> 00:26:09.579
with a lot of like questioning yourself. Right.
00:26:09.700 --> 00:26:13.440
And so part of wanting to start this was also
00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:16.680
just sort of. I mean, give myself homework, right?
00:26:16.839 --> 00:26:21.000
Like I go deep into topics that some people apparently
00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:23.380
seem to listen to, but like a lot of people don't
00:26:23.380 --> 00:26:26.559
care about. But it is also helpful and fun for
00:26:26.559 --> 00:26:29.039
me to dive into, you know, the Colorado program
00:26:29.039 --> 00:26:31.299
plan and see what it's about and then talk about
00:26:31.299 --> 00:26:34.019
it or talk to somebody who was a part of getting
00:26:34.019 --> 00:26:36.779
the Colorado EPR bill passed, right? I go, I
00:26:36.779 --> 00:26:39.859
nerd out with like composters, you know, and
00:26:39.859 --> 00:26:42.740
it's fun and I learned so much. So part of it
00:26:42.740 --> 00:26:46.390
was just this. And then part of it is I think,
00:26:46.390 --> 00:26:48.529
I mean, not to toot my own horn, but I think
00:26:48.529 --> 00:26:51.009
I'm pretty good at change management. Yeah. You
00:26:51.009 --> 00:26:53.730
know, I've been sort of doing it across different
00:26:53.730 --> 00:26:56.589
aspects. I mean, it was a large part. And unfortunately,
00:26:57.190 --> 00:27:01.910
master data is boring. But it's very important.
00:27:02.130 --> 00:27:05.109
And so it was a large part of making change in
00:27:05.109 --> 00:27:08.329
that space is convincing people. And, you know,
00:27:08.349 --> 00:27:12.089
have you seen those memes about like, like. Mike's
00:27:12.089 --> 00:27:14.970
spreadsheet on top of like the tower of AI data,
00:27:15.089 --> 00:27:17.809
right? It's like everybody had their own spreadsheet
00:27:17.809 --> 00:27:20.910
across the company, you know? Like, I have this
00:27:20.910 --> 00:27:23.430
database, I have this database. So there is no
00:27:23.430 --> 00:27:25.210
master data. So bringing all of that together
00:27:25.210 --> 00:27:28.109
and convincing people that this was going to
00:27:28.109 --> 00:27:29.470
be different than the last time they talked to
00:27:29.470 --> 00:27:33.829
the consultant about change, you know? That happens
00:27:33.829 --> 00:27:36.869
all the time. Any corporation you've ever worked
00:27:36.869 --> 00:27:38.509
for, if you've never worked for a corporation,
00:27:38.730 --> 00:27:41.750
you get a lot of these seminars. So, yeah, I
00:27:41.750 --> 00:27:45.569
could you get some change fatigue at some point.
00:27:45.950 --> 00:27:47.950
Specifically, like for me, I came out of procurement.
00:27:48.170 --> 00:27:50.589
That was my background. And it was always change
00:27:50.589 --> 00:27:52.890
management every year because you you don't have
00:27:52.890 --> 00:27:56.410
actual authority to make these changes. You have
00:27:56.410 --> 00:27:59.559
to be really good at. influencing people around
00:27:59.559 --> 00:28:03.380
you to be on your side. So I love this stuff.
00:28:04.519 --> 00:28:07.319
It's a big part of negotiation. It's a big part
00:28:07.319 --> 00:28:10.960
of leading. It's a big part of just being successful
00:28:10.960 --> 00:28:14.779
in my opinion. So I love the idea behind the
00:28:14.779 --> 00:28:17.980
podcast for sure. But I think I saw somewhere,
00:28:18.160 --> 00:28:21.140
I forget what it was, but somebody said like,
00:28:21.200 --> 00:28:24.079
don't follow your dreams. Figure out what you're
00:28:24.079 --> 00:28:27.140
good at and then be really, really good at those
00:28:27.140 --> 00:28:29.609
things. But when those things connect together,
00:28:29.849 --> 00:28:32.849
that's great. Like you can't really do much better
00:28:32.849 --> 00:28:34.910
than that is when you can find something that
00:28:34.910 --> 00:28:37.269
you're really good at, but it just so happens
00:28:37.269 --> 00:28:39.269
to be something that you really are interested
00:28:39.269 --> 00:28:42.390
in too. Yeah. That is the Holy Grail. So I'm
00:28:42.390 --> 00:28:45.190
happy you seem to have kind of found your middle
00:28:45.190 --> 00:28:47.990
ground here. I think so. With the recycling especially,
00:28:48.329 --> 00:28:52.500
we need packaging. And the world, if we didn't
00:28:52.500 --> 00:28:55.619
have packaging, you know, medical equipment wouldn't
00:28:55.619 --> 00:28:57.799
make it to places it needs to make it. Food wouldn't
00:28:57.799 --> 00:29:00.079
make it to places that it needs to make it. And
00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:04.940
we need we need it. And I love being a part of
00:29:04.940 --> 00:29:09.039
sort of making it diverted from landfill. Right.
00:29:09.140 --> 00:29:11.099
I mean, I think the word sustainability is too
00:29:11.099 --> 00:29:14.799
big of an umbrella. And sometimes they sort of
00:29:14.799 --> 00:29:18.180
different like pathways sort of contradict and
00:29:18.180 --> 00:29:21.480
like work against each other. But I do believe,
00:29:21.720 --> 00:29:25.000
I mean, in my spare time between like deciding
00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:28.000
I was going to do this and like leaving Coca
00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:31.019
-Cola, I read Garbology. I don't know what that
00:29:31.019 --> 00:29:34.259
is. It's a book. It's like the study of garbage.
00:29:34.700 --> 00:29:38.359
Okay. Interesting. I know, super nerdy. Yeah.
00:29:38.460 --> 00:29:40.559
And I was like, yeah, I mean, these landfills.
00:29:40.859 --> 00:29:44.109
So it's fascinating kind of understanding. Like
00:29:44.109 --> 00:29:46.990
what's going into them and how much really with
00:29:46.990 --> 00:29:50.750
today's technology could be diverted. Like compost
00:29:50.750 --> 00:29:52.970
or like compostable material is a very large
00:29:52.970 --> 00:29:54.990
percentage of what's in the landfill. Yeah. Like
00:29:54.990 --> 00:29:57.650
PET, very large percentage of what's in the landfill.
00:29:58.130 --> 00:30:00.529
Aluminum, paper. These are all things that like
00:30:00.529 --> 00:30:04.130
today people can make a profit on if they were
00:30:04.130 --> 00:30:06.849
to recycle them. Right. And if we could at least
00:30:06.849 --> 00:30:09.670
just capture that. Right. Like what a big change.
00:30:09.769 --> 00:30:11.609
I would almost take out like 50 percent of what's
00:30:11.609 --> 00:30:14.519
in a landfill. Yeah. You know. So it gives it
00:30:14.519 --> 00:30:16.779
gave me maybe not everybody else, but gave me
00:30:16.779 --> 00:30:19.539
a lot of hope that if we don't need a ton of
00:30:19.539 --> 00:30:22.000
innovation to actually solve a large percentage
00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:25.299
of this problem, that is hopeful to me. We need
00:30:25.299 --> 00:30:28.960
scale. Yeah. You know, and we need people collaborating
00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:31.099
and working together and communicating. Yeah.
00:30:31.160 --> 00:30:33.720
So my computer went from 30 percent battery to
00:30:33.720 --> 00:30:37.539
two. So, yeah, I'm going to give you right now
00:30:37.539 --> 00:30:40.420
to talk about your podcast, where people can
00:30:40.420 --> 00:30:42.740
find it, how people can get in touch with you.
00:30:43.130 --> 00:30:45.869
And then any last words that you'd like to add?
00:30:45.990 --> 00:30:49.250
I would say podcast is at, I mean, it's wherever
00:30:49.250 --> 00:30:53.049
you find podcasts, Change Cycle. It's also csyimpact
00:30:53.049 --> 00:30:56.109
.com slash podcast. And you can also find me
00:30:56.109 --> 00:30:59.029
there. I'm also on LinkedIn, Christine Yeager.
00:30:59.130 --> 00:31:03.390
But I think my final word is in the space of
00:31:03.390 --> 00:31:08.430
redefining plastic, I think like for you personally,
00:31:08.529 --> 00:31:10.410
if you're listening, think about the trade -offs
00:31:10.410 --> 00:31:13.720
of. the decisions you're making. Where does plastic
00:31:13.720 --> 00:31:17.240
play a role in the trash that you're making?
00:31:17.319 --> 00:31:20.579
And where does reuse, where does reduce play
00:31:20.579 --> 00:31:24.519
a role? Yeah. Well, Christine, I love working
00:31:24.519 --> 00:31:27.299
with you. I appreciate you spending this 30 minutes
00:31:27.299 --> 00:31:31.319
with me today before my battery died on my laptop.
00:31:31.559 --> 00:31:35.400
The battery lasts like 30 minutes. But this has
00:31:35.400 --> 00:31:37.500
been the Redefining Plastics podcast. Thank you
00:31:37.500 --> 00:31:39.940
so much. And we'll be back soon. All right. Thanks.
00:31:39.980 --> 00:31:41.539
If you want to learn more about the plastics
00:31:41.539 --> 00:31:44.960
industry, recycling, check out these other videos.
00:31:45.220 --> 00:31:46.579
Please like and subscribe.
