Speaker 1:
0:00 Now it's time to be dangerous. Now it's time to get risky.
Speaker 2:
0:03 Now it's time to truly find out what you're made of and what you could achieve.
Speaker 1:
0:08 Now it's time to truly find out how many lives you can impact. Now it's time to find out what you were destined to become.
Speaker 3:
0:15 What's up everybody? Welcome back to Raw Minds podcast on men's mental health, where we hear guests' beautiful stories about overcoming some struggles in their life. I'm one of your hosts. My is anthony and I'm eric and let's kick this shit off raw minds, yeah man, good, save on the intro bro I know, you know what.
Speaker 3:
0:34 Usually it's grayed out and you can't press it until like it starts yeah but for some reason it was like let's fucking go it's been waiting, man, so we're not going to make waste much time bullshitting today, because we have a very special guest, uh, someone I know very well amazing story that he's going to come on and share, but also someone we're going to be doing some work with in the the near future here, so why don't you bring him out? Oh yeah, good evening, sir. How are you? I'm doing?
Speaker 1:
1:03 great guys. Thanks for having me on. Absolutely, it's great to see you, fine young gentleman.
Speaker 2:
1:09 Thanks Always a pleasure, brother. I use the term gentleman usually Always.
Speaker 3:
1:13 Yes, gentleman is a very loose term that we use around here. Yes, so I dig it. Why don't? Huh, the background, the shirt in the background.
Speaker 2:
1:23 Yes, so that's what I was saying. Why don't you tell us a little bit of what you got behind you?
Speaker 1:
1:29 Yeah, so we're just messing with the logo, right? So to your listeners here and you guys, so we're one of the co-founders of Mad Apparel and the boys here at Raw Minds and I've decided that we're going to do a collaboration. I'll let you guys tell your audience a little bit more about what that looks like. But we make apparel, we make luxury, custom streetwear. We also do corporate the boring stuff. We do corporate stuff. That's really what pays all the bills and allows us to create on the streetwear side of things. And so we're going to do a collaboration and use some really unique and cool materials to do this collaboration. Hoodie with your, your logo, and it's just gonna it's just gonna jump off that hoodie man why don't you guys tell your audience a little bit more?
Speaker 1:
2:15 about what your plan is yeah, so we are.
Speaker 3:
2:19 we've collabed with mark here. Um, we're super, super excited to begin that journey and, especially on the hoodie, we're going to get that worked out. We're going to work out the fine print of the giveaway and how we're going to give that away. I know some of the requirements are going to be that you have to be following us on certain social medias and you have to be following Mad Apparel as well. We just love what you guys stand for and what your vision is for the streetwear brand and we just felt like our visions aligned really well and how you want to give back to the community kind of aligns with how we want to look at giving back to the community as well. Do you want to touch quickly on the mad apparel side and what you guys have planned for the future and how you guys operate and what your purpose is and everything like that?
Speaker 1:
3:04 Yeah, absolutely. It's really an honor to be working with the gentleman I'm working with, dale, who's the co-founder of Mad Apparel, and we'll start at the end here, because that's what Mad Apparel came into. We'll get into a little bit how I arrived here. We'll discuss a little bit about my story and what was going on in my life.
Speaker 1:
3:28 To end me up, We'll get into really giving back to the world, the community, and that's what MAD stands for. We want you to get mad, and MAD means make a difference, but not for me. Make a difference for you, for your listeners. Right, and coming out of the pandemic, you know, the co-founder Dale and myself felt the world was ready to hear this message. You know it was scary going through something like that. No one's ever been through a global pandemic.
Speaker 1:
3:58 I know myself I started to isolate. You know, drugs were part of my story five years ago. That got out of control, gave me an excuse to isolate. Oh, I have asthma. I need to isolate.
Speaker 1:
4:11 When you fast forward and we talk about making a difference, because what happened during that time too, is I got real selfish, I looked out for myself. And when we talk about doing making a difference, it's for somebody else, right, live that altruistic lifestyle. Right. When I'm doing something, I'm doing it for you, I'm doing it for my community, I'm doing it for my loved ones, for my teammates, my coworkers, right, and I'm not worried about myself. You know, I believe in a higher power and he's going to take care of me and my job is to take everything I have and be a service to everything and everybody, and that's what making a difference was built on right and love it.
Speaker 1:
4:55 The elevator pitch is this do it because it's the right thing to do, do it because you're a fucking human being and you ought to want to do it. You don't have to do this stuff. You ought to want to do it Right, and that's our message. You know a hundred percent of our proceeds. They don't go to line our pocket from the street where, right now, we have to get back to zero, right? We? You know we spent, you know tens of thousands of dollars to bring in this inventory, but a hundred percent of the profit goes back into the community, right? So when you smash that button, when you're going to shop our store and there'll be new drops and and new designs, it's just our first collection out of the darkness. It's a black on black on black, right, and we can get into the name of that collection why it was so important yes, we, we should get into that at some point too right definitely of having that as the first full collection.
Speaker 1:
5:48 This is, I'm actually wearing it, it's darkness hoodie yeah, it's really. I don't know if you could, you saw it, but yeah, yeah serpent style embroidery sick, it's really sick, man.
Speaker 1:
6:01 and um, it just says darkness right on the back. Right, because we literally walked out of that darkness five years ago and we put it on the back because it's never too far away. Right, it's still back there. If I stop doing the things that I need to do, that darkness will be in front of me in no time, and so that's what Make a Difference stands for. That's why we decided to put our money where our mouth was and open a corporate office and carry this message on our streetwear brand side, our corporate wear as well. We work with a lot of organizations in the communities that we live in, and we're just honored we're really honored and blessed to be able to give back to our communities, our loved ones, teammates, coworkers, everybody, right. So how can I be helpful to you? Right?
Speaker 2:
6:57 And it doesn't cost me anything to be nice.
Speaker 1:
7:00 It absolutely costs me nothing to do something for you, right? Not because there's a hook in it for me, right? Because that's not for you, that's for me. Then right, that's selfish, right? Do it with no strings attached. Do it with the cameras off, right? Do it when nobody's watching. That's when you do it, right? That's really making a difference for the other person. It has nothing to do with me. Yeah, right, that's really making a difference for the other person. It has nothing to do with me.
Speaker 1:
7:26 Yeah, Right so so that's a really, and I I get pretty forceful and passionate when I talk about it because we'll get into it, because I was pretty much homeless five years ago. Right, I was addicted to crack, cocaine and alcohol and whatever you had I'll take it, and I didn't care, couldn't see my kids. My wife didn't want anything to do with me. Man, I built a 25, 30-year mining technology career where I traveled all over the world designing underground Wi-Fi and fiber networks in hard rock mines around the world. But none of that matters, because all the decisions I made landed me in a treatment center at the age of 45 years old.
Speaker 1:
8:08 So it didn't matter what I did before right, good, bad, like whatever happened in my life and a lot of good things did happen. But it turns out, uh, I'm an addict, and that all came to a grinding halt in the middle of the pandemic. You know where your heart stops and you drop. You could see the, the color coming out of my skin and like I turned gray and I was done. My life was over, right, miraculously. You guys thought I died, right, miraculously. I'm still here, so it doesn't matter why, and I really needed to look at how I was living life.
Speaker 1:
8:36 And let's get into. From a young age I was always. I always knew I was going to work for myself. I had that entrepreneurial bug from the age of 10, 11, 12. I started, I think, my first computer company at the age of 14, 15. Wow, and I was into technology early.
Speaker 1:
8:57 I was also into a lot of illegal things early and there was no reason for it. I came from a stable, stable, upper middle class home. Dad was my executive. You know, mom was it was an rn nurse working in emerge. There was no reason for me to do the things I was doing, right, I didn't need the money. It wasn't about the money. Something was missing inside of me and I was chasing something my whole life, right, and it was just living fast, live this fast, life fast. Cars, bikes, boats, skidoos, jet skis, fast women, everything.
Speaker 1:
9:35 And you know what really was confusing for me too. I don't want to go back to the childhood and talk about that stuff at. You know, I don't want to go back to the childhood and talks about that stuff, but some of my first mentors we let we you know we were part of a big project that was pretty lucrative for us and we're in the boardroom celebrating and outcomes. You know the executive, no sore. And so I associate success, entrepreneurship with this. You know this fine white powder right, and these guys were very successful and I looked up to them. They're mentors.
Speaker 1:
10:08 And they could close that bag down and go to work Monday. And it started like that for me. But eventually, over time, I couldn't close the bag, I couldn't put the drink down, I needed another bag. It wasn't just weekends, it wasn't once a month, it was just man, life was really starting to become unmanageable. Right at the time, my consultancy, my businesses, all my legal stuff was really taking off. I'm traveling all over the world. I'm making excuses to stay in Chile, peru, south Africa, all these places, places, project ran longer, babe, like I'm going to have to stay an extra week in Sao Paulo, you know. And it was to feed my addiction. And things went on like that, man, I tell you, for 20-some years, 25 years, you know. I started drinking and drugging at the you know the fine young age of 10 years old and it didn't get any better. I'll tell you that it didn't get any better over the 25, 35 years that I used. My addiction lasted for 35 years, was that?
Speaker 2:
11:17 off and on. That's a very long time. Was that off and on or was that just like?
Speaker 1:
11:21 no, it was you know from the word go it was pretty much consistent. Something was going in my body for 35 years, almost daily right. It started with, like weed alcohol and I just needed that. I just needed to get out of of my own skin like I just yeah, I didn't, you know like? I didn't feel like I fit in anywhere, right Right, and I just needed something to quiet my head, quiet my mind.
Speaker 2:
11:48 Medicaid. You needed a Medicaid.
Speaker 1:
11:51 You know, Medicaid that's it. Just numb and I walked around numb to the world for 35 years and you know, and I had some success because you know you could look at at the bank, you could look at the material world and and what, what I had. But inside man I was coming undone right and nobody knew, nobody knew man, I would go home and I would literally, you know, sit in a fetal position, man for for the whole weekend and it just got worse and worse, and and so I didn't like feeling like that.
Speaker 1:
12:25 I felt like I was missing something. So I put something in this big black hole that was inside of me and it would make that hole shrink and I would feel better. Right. But what do you do when your solution stops working for you? It didn't matter. Near the end At the age of 45, I couldn't put enough drugs in my body, I couldn't put enough alcohol in my system to make that black hole shrink and go away. Right, I couldn't make the voices quiet in my head. If anything, it amplified everything. At the end, it didn't take it away anymore, it made it worse.
Speaker 2:
12:59 And.
Speaker 1:
12:59 I just I come on. I just came, completely unwound, right On my way into treatment. Man, I think I was up for man. It was a couple of weeks no, hadn't showered, hadn't eaten, hadn't slept. I'm full on, full flight from reality. And you know, at the age of 45, I end up in what I call my bougie spot. Right, I was still able to get myself into a private center. Many people aren't that fortunate. Many people die. There's so many addicts like myself out there dying on the streets, man, waiting on some fucking list for the help they need right, we've talked about that and they're just being shoved aside.
Speaker 3:
13:42 Man, they're just being shoved aside. Yeah, we've talked about that on. The've just been shoved aside. Yeah, we've talked about that on the podcast. And how fucked the the health care system is and it's like if you don't have 30 plus thousand dollars, you're gonna wait six to eight months and most of the time, by the time we become willing to to take the help like we don't have six to eight months to fucking live, we're doomed by the time we get there, right. Right so it's a really fucked up, listen there's.
Speaker 1:
14:06 so you know the short time I've been in recovery just under five years. I think I was 67 people that I've crossed paths with in under five years that are no longer breathing on this planet.
Speaker 3:
14:19 Yeah, yeah, it's fucking. It's a staggering number, that's what happens to addicts?
Speaker 1:
14:23 We die. We die, man. It's a cold hard fact.
Speaker 2:
14:26 It's true. What happened to my fiance two years ago?
Speaker 1:
14:29 Right.
Speaker 2:
14:29 Yeah.
Speaker 1:
14:31 Man, you'd be hard-pressed I'm probably a little older than you guys, but you'd be hard-pressed to run into somebody on the street, in our age brackets, that doesn't know, somebody that's lost this battle to this insidious disease. Right, it would be a miracle if you didn't know somebody that has lost the battle to addiction or alcohol.
Speaker 1:
14:52 Fucking sad, the same yeah and that's the cold hard truth of that's. That's wrong, man. Yeah, right, that's wrong. That's, that's facts. And so you know what.
Speaker 1:
15:02 What normally happens is either not aware of the services out there, or I'm too scared, or whatever the reason is Like it doesn't matter what the reasons are, man, I can give you a million different reasons why I wanted to stay and do what I was doing Right and and not seek help. You know I'm running around like a wannabe gangster doing illegal stuff, all while I have this whole legitimate side of my life and my businesses. And never that was the hamster wheel, never letting these two lives cross paths right. Until they did. And then it just got, man. It came unwound After 35 years of drinking and drugging. Within months, months, I was in a treatment center Like it come. It came unwound fast man, like I was probably. I was about 110 pounds lighter than I am today. When I went into treatment my skin was great, like I had one. You know I was knocking on death death's door. It wasn't a joke, man, it was. It was serious and I really had to to look at myself and say what are you doing here?
Speaker 2:
16:12 was that the wake-up moment that you had, like that light bulb that's like I need to change or I'm gonna die.
Speaker 1:
16:17 Wasn't quite the light bulb moment for me okay this counselor I had in this treatment center like listen, you know, most people are there for 28, 30 days, 45 days, if you're lucky, bro, when I tell you I'm the sickest guy you'll ever met. I was there for five months, right, during a global pandemic man, and I spent 45 days being stubborn and the being the, trying to be the smartest guy in the room. Right, I know everything. You can't tell me anything. I just need, like I'm wicked smart, just give me the algorithm or the formula and I'll just solve this problem myself. Right, that's all I need. 45 days into it.
Speaker 1:
16:59 This primary counselor of mine just goes like listen, mark, stop saying you're broken and you need to be fixed. You're not broken, you don't need to be fixed, but what you are is very, very sick. We need to find what medicine is going to work for you. And that was the moment for me, like, wait, hold on, you don't need to fix this, I'm not broken, I'm just, really, this is, this is actually a disease, but and okay, so give me the medicine. Oh, there's all kinds of medicines, really, you know, for myself, uh, I, I found a solution to this, uh, living problem. That's really what my issue was, right, my issue, you know um, isn't drugs and alcohol. Like I'm an alcoholic and an addict and my problem is not drugs, and alcohol.
Speaker 1:
17:45 I'm an alcoholic and an addict and my problem is not drugs and alcohol. That was my solution for 35 years. My problem was that I had a severe allergic reaction to living sober on this planet. That's my problem, and so now we need to figure out why. Why is that my problem? And we need to find what medicine is going to help me live sober on this planet. Because my medicine, my solution drugs and alcohol stopped working for me right and it became very dangerous dangerous to continue to try and use that solution, especially when it didn't matter how many drugs and how much alcohol you're putting in it. Just nothing's making it go away and nothing's making me feel better anymore, you know at the end of the day, I figured it out.
Speaker 1:
18:26 I'm a hurt little boy with scary feelings. I'm running around trying to play gangster, right, trying to act like this tough guy. I mean like no mistake, like I'm tough enough, but that's really not what you saw right. What you saw was this unmanageability and and this wannabe gangster and tough guy, but really what it is is I'm a scared little boy with three feelings inside. That's all it is. I'm living in this fear, yeah I don't like how that feels.
Speaker 1:
18:53 Hey, put a shell on, yeah right so who put these masks on or whatever. However, whatever analogy you want, or put something in in my body so I don't have to deal with that fear anymore and um, and that's what my life was like, until this counselor tells me like we just gotta find some medicine. I'm like, okay, I'm sick. I could, like, I'll buy into that. It's been 45 days. I haven't had any movement on, uh, on my you know, while I'm been in in that center. So I'm like, okay, so what? So what's the recipe here? What's this solution? Look like. They're like well, we got to figure it out, right, we got to figure out what medicine. And so for me, I was able to find it in a 12-step fellowship, right. And I'm guided by these principles, these 12 principles today that I live by, and you know it seems to be working for me. But I always say I don't know if it is because I went to a treatment center. I removed drugs and alcohol from my body. I never and I never put them in since the day I went in there and I started working and living by these 12 principles. So I can't tell you, it's really this that's keeping me sober, but I'm not brave enough to stop either. I'm not. I'm not taking that chance, man, that if I stop doing what I'm doing I'm going to get to stay sober. So I'm just going to keep doing whatever it is that I was. You know that medicine I'm going to. Those 12 principles are my medicine and I'm just going to keep taking it every day, every day.
Speaker 1:
20:23 And so far, after almost five years, after taking this medicine and living by these principles, things happened real fast in my life. I went from looking for a place to live. My wife really didn't want me in her life. She loved me like no mistake. We've been together now for 26 years, my wife and I, and that doesn't make sense to me as well. So, nowhere to live. Kids couldn't see the kids. It was clear I was a danger to them and everybody in my life, including myself, wife, didn't really want me around. And so you go from that, not even five years ago, to doing what I'm doing today, and that is giving back to everybody in everything, everybody in my life right, how can I be a service to you?
Speaker 1:
21:10 That's basically these 12 simple principles that I live by. That's basically at the 10,000 foot level. That's what it is Be a human being, make good choices and do something for somebody else. And so far, like, look man, like I can't tell you how much gratitude I have today for having the opportunity to be doing what I'm doing. A year and a half ago, two years ago, I knew nothing about the apparel industry and we're still learning. We're making mistakes, that's okay.
Speaker 2:
21:41 That's how you learn, though that's how you learn.
Speaker 1:
21:46 And some mistakes and some things. We we have the opportunity, opportunity to learn. We go. That was expensive. Let's not do that again, right? Um, and it's just. It's a real cool way to live, man.
Speaker 1:
21:57 Um, I get to, I get to parent my children today, you know, I think, um, you know, being a father's probably the greatest thing that you know God has ever given me, right, if there's something better than being a father, I bet you he kept it for himself, and maybe he did, I don't know, but I think it's just the coolest thing that I get to be today. And I get to be a husband again. I get to be a and I get to be a husband again. I get to be a son. I'm blessed that I still have my parents with me.
Speaker 1:
22:27 Man, I get to be, um, a business owner and have a beautiful partner, dale. Right, we, we talk daily, right? Dale lives in calgary half the year and he's in ontario or wherever around the world he is. You know he's got a lot going on, you know, and I get to be this business partner, father, husband, son. I get to be a community member.
Speaker 1:
22:51 You know I'm involved with a lot of organizations here in Subgrade where I live and just trying, I just try to give back as much as we can, as much as I can, and you know, I don't ever want it to stop. And so, like I said, I'm not that brave man, I don't know how I'm living is what's keeping me sober, but I'm not stopping man. I'm just not going to take that chance right. And that's a little bit of the journey from literally nothing knocking on death's door, not even five years ago, to be a in a position to be a service to all my loved ones, to you guys, to my community and everybody. I cross paths with um and it's it's, first of all, it's fun we're having a riot having a lot of fun when I first got sober.
Speaker 1:
23:40 I'm like man, this life's over. Man, it's gonna be so boring and, uh, I've never had this much fun in my life. To be honest, and to see the joy, the things that we get to do today, the joy that it brings other people right. It's about paying it forward. That's the paycheck, right there, guys. Yeah, right.
Speaker 2:
24:01 Definitely it's all about paying it forward, you know, and giving back, especially like like when you're in these like dark times and you know how it is always it's good to help people walk through these, these dark times. That's the uh, I saw a saying about it but that's like the, the hope I guess, that you can you bring to the table for these other people and show them that like look, I was there and now look where I am. You know, it gives them hope and then it pushes them through that it's scary, I'm not saying it's not scary life is life.
Speaker 1:
24:33 Doesn't owe me anything right yeah life's not gonna knock on my door and just roll the red carpet. I would say, hey, uh, hey, mark, here's everything you ever wanted. There's no life hack for life, it's just hard work, man.
Speaker 2:
24:47 Unless you win the lotto. That's about it, right, yeah?
Speaker 1:
24:50 You think life would get easier after that.
Speaker 2:
24:52 Fuck no, man.
Speaker 3:
24:53 It gets even harder, man you would have rich people problems at that point.
Speaker 2:
24:56 Yeah, man.
Speaker 1:
24:57 Yeah, man, Listen man, I don't want Jay-Z problems. Yeah man, I don't want jay-z problems. Yeah, you know, yeah, and uh, and it's you know, like I put it to you this way, until I lost, hurt and suffered enough, I was never going to change that. That is almost wired in our dna, right? Nobody, it's been my experience anyway that nobody's going to change until they hurt enough, until they lose enough and until they suffer enough.
Speaker 1:
25:26 So maybe, maybe I needed to go out there and suffer for 35 years and then, finally, it was enough for me yeah, that was your drive right, I had walked past, I had many opportunities over those, you know, three decades well, really two decades, because the the you know the first 15 years, man, it was all rainbows and unicorns. It was great, right. And then you just can't, then I just couldn't put it down after right but, it wasn't always like that for me.
Speaker 1:
25:56 Right, it was. You know, there were good times there were, there were fun times, but it just got progressively worse and it just controlled me by the end of it. Right, so many times in the last two decades, right, there was opportunities to say, like you know, man, like really messed this up, like sitting in a in some orange jumper, um, and the judge goes guilty and my mom gets to watch her, her youngest son, get the bracelets put on and he's not coming home.
Speaker 1:
26:24 Yeah, so that wasn't enough. That wasn't enough for me. Losing that, losing everything, every, all my businesses, every material thing I lost, it gone. All my money was gone. That wasn't enough, right? I'm a really resourceful addict, like like. I find ways to get high and drunk. And so why on that day did I say that's it, that's enough For me, guys, it didn't matter. And I got stuck. I used to be stuck on the why, right? And that kept me sick for a long time, thinking about the why am I like this? Why am I like this? I can tell you in my experience, the why didn't help me get sober and does not help me stay sober. Knowing why. I still don't know why I'm like this okay, I've just right.
Speaker 3:
27:09 I want to ask you a question then, because I asked the. We were interviewing a guy last night and I asked him this question. I don't think he fully understood it at the time. Do you find in your experience being in a 12-step program, learning the principles that you have learned has freed you from the want for the why in everything?
Speaker 1:
27:27 Yeah, because I didn't know much about this 12-step fellowship that I'm part of today. I didn't know much when I first got here and I was still stuck on the why until I started really digging into the program and I just got to accept. That's acceptance, yeah, in the program I'm part of. The acceptance is I'm an addict, I'm an alcoholic, and it doesn't matter why. It just doesn't matter why, right here. Here's why very simple my house is on fire. Guys, I have to know why it's on fire. The fire marshal goes well, yo, bro, if you go in that house, that burning house, you're probably gonna die. It's completely engulfed in flames and I'm just like well, I gotta know why it's on fire. And he's like well, go ahead. So whether I figure it out or not, it doesn't matter. You know why? Because I'm fucking dead. I ran into a burning house to figure out why it was on fire and maybe I figured it out, maybe I didn't, but it just didn't matter because I'm dead.
Speaker 1:
28:29 And I was at one point, I was willing to pursue that to the gates of hell. Why, why? Why, why? Because I'm sick, I have a disease. Listen, if you had cancer, eric or Anthony, do you ask yourself why do I have cancer? It doesn't matter why, it won't get rid of it. If you know why you got cancer, does it make you not have the cancer?
Speaker 3:
28:48 Exactly.
Speaker 2:
28:51 No, you still have cancer, you know, there's that Buddha saying and I think you know this too, anthony is where a snake comes up and bites this person and then starts going away. And then the person runs after the snake and says, hey, why did you bite me? And then the person runs after the snake and says, hey, why did you bite me? Well, the snake's the snake man. Instead of worrying about that, why don't you worry about yourself?
Speaker 1:
29:09 You just got bit by a snake. That's what I do right.
Speaker 1:
29:13 So once I could learn to focus my energy on the solution of how do I not be this, sick things really took off for me. Right, I stopped putting all my energy and my time and my efforts on why am I like this. Instead, I choose to focus on how do I not get back to there, how do I not be like that? So that's that shift from focusing why am I like this, why am I like this the solution of not acting like that. And it's been my experience over this last five years that when I focus on doing the things that I get to do to not be like that, the time is way, way better well spent, right.
Speaker 2:
30:04 Well, here's the best thing too, man, is you get to wake up every day. Some people don't grow. You know what I mean?
Speaker 1:
30:10 Listen you know, I love that you say that, because I wake up with a new wife every every day, because this morning I've never woken up today beside my wife. I woke up beside her yesterday, but I didn't wake up today beside her yet, right or I did this morning.
Speaker 1:
30:27 Yeah, it's all it's like, it's like what's I don't know what's gonna happen. So to me it's like it's like in this moment, in this, at this time, my wife and I get to discover this relationship we have. I, I can't be so close-minded to think I know what it's going to be like today. I don't know, I don't know what's going to happen, right. So I get this excitement and this feeling of joy and gratitude that I woke up first of all, right, I woke up because that was a chore and I woke up beside this beautiful woman. Right Now. I can't wait to see what's going to happen today, to where our relationship is going to go. Today.
Speaker 1:
31:10 It's like, you know, when I shift my mentality and my thinking that way it's. How can you not be excited to wake up every day beside the same individual? Because I've never woken up beside them today. That's why, right and same with today, in whatever the tasks I get to do today at the office, it's not the same as yesterday because it's a different time. And so I can't say to myself I know what today is going to be like. I don't have a crystal ball man. I can't tell the future. So the important thing is for me is just to show up and whatever happens is going to happen. But the important thing is for me is just to show up and whatever happens is going to happen. But the important thing is to show up for life and to show up for my wife, to show up for my kids, show up for you guys, show up for myself, right and just, and whatever happens that's out of my control, right.
Speaker 2:
31:58 Whatever happens is going to happen. Yeah, man.
Speaker 1:
32:01 Right, I'm not in the outcome business, i'm'm in the show up, do the work and whatever happens just happens, man, and and trust me, you know I work on this daily. I don't wake up fully spiritual every day because I'm I'm fucking human right and I can teach like I can show you how human I could be real fast. Right, because for me, you know I heard this on this podcast that I watch this doctor and he says there's two types of people in this world there's people that have problems and dead people. So if you're alive, you probably have problems.
Speaker 2:
32:37 Yeah Right, you'd hardly be human if you didn't, right yeah?
Speaker 1:
32:42 And so now, what we just get, to show up, man, that's it, right. And if somebody acts out towards me it took a while to get to this point, but I don't take it personal so I could learn not to take things personal and not to react or act out when somebody. I feel like I'm being attacked Because it's not about me. Something's going on inside of that individual and it has absolutely nothing to do with me. Right?
Speaker 2:
33:21 I just happen to be the guy standing in front Wrong place, wrong time kind of thing. Right, Happen to be the guy standing in front Wrong place wrong time kind of thing, right and listen.
Speaker 1:
33:28 man like I said I don't wake up that spiritual every day, all day long. There's a lot of work right to discover. You know what I'm supposed to be doing and how I'm supposed to be living and so far, man, like you know, I just keep showing up. I'm open-minded enough today to say maybe my perspective isn't the only one, right? Maybe we're both looking at the same thing, but you guys are going to perceive it and view it differently than me. Now can we agree that we each have our own perspective? Of course, and really that's why. That's why eyewitness statements are the most unreliable, because that's how they perceive that event right Now. You and me might perceive it different the exact same event. We just might perceive it a little different. And so it's not about right or wrong for me at this point. That's your perception and this is my perception, right? And you can't tell me this isn't how it makes me feel, because it's just how I feel. And it's not right or wrong, right, it's just.
Speaker 3:
34:36 I've said this on an episode before I think it was that guy Mitch. We had on about the suicide about perspective If I took you and Eric and I taped an X on the ground and I said okay, Eric, stand there, go look up at the clouds, Tell me what you see. And then you went and stood in the same spot, Even though you were both looking at the same thing. You're seeing it from a different perspective. Maybe he's a little bit shorter than you.
Speaker 2:
34:58 You were there at a different time.
Speaker 3:
35:00 Like it's perspective, it's your own, but that doesn't mean that your perspective is any more right than anybody else's.
Speaker 1:
35:07 No, it's just mine, that's right. It's just mine, that's right, and yours is yours, and it can never be wrong. That's the thing about a perspective and being open-minded enough to allow the individual the space to express their perception, because it can never be wrong.
Speaker 3:
35:24 It's just yours. That's right, right.
Speaker 1:
35:26 And mine's mine.
Speaker 3:
35:27 Yeah.
Speaker 1:
35:27 Right. It's not about being right or wrong, and that's where I get to just take my ego and park it. I don't need to be right or wrong, but I have witnessed or I take in information, I perceive it the way. I'm going to and you're going to take in the same information and you might have a different perspective, and that's okay, right, it's not right or wrong, it's just yours and it's mine, right, oh yeah, and so I did a lot of work on this in early recovery man, because my ego and my pride sit on my shoulders. They still sit there right and they scream in my ears all day long, right. And and I and I get to do and live by these principles to say you know what mark, you don't need to be right how do you shut them out?
Speaker 2:
36:10 how do you, how do you not listen to them? Can you give any?
Speaker 1:
36:12 tips or anything for people you know it's, it's it's living by these, these 12 principles in my life. They are the core, they are the foundation of every decision and everything I do. And so when I'm living by these principles, these things like ego, pride, that sit here on these shoulders, right, they get quieter, they never go away. Right, I'm human, right.
Speaker 1:
36:38 And they can come back real fast and I just get to go back and say, okay, man, like you know, that was was big for me just to go, okay, time out, mark like before. I would just run right to the edge of the cliff, dive, swan, dive, head first off, and I'd be gone on a run man, right, because I'd be so offended or that are felt personally attacked, right, and now I can just go. I can get right out to that edge real fast still, but because I have such this strong foundation and these principles, I can pause, take a breath and, and I can recenter myself, I can get right back to the center and just go. Okay, maybe and it's it's about perspective too Maybe what I just witnessed was one.
Speaker 1:
37:29 I perceived it a specific way or a certain way, and maybe it's not exactly what's happening, right, because I have all these influences that could change my perspective, and I just go like, well, you know, and put it this way, in the past I used to be like why does that guy get a pass? He doesn't get a pass on this. We're gonna go teach him a lesson, right, and it's just like that's okay, man, maybe this guy's sick, or maybe this individual is sick, right, and this is how their sickness is manifesting itself inside of them. I'm sick, and where would I be if somebody singled me out and acted out towards me? You know when I first wanted to get sober right. So I can have some empathy and some compassion today for any sick individual, no matter if I agree or disagree, whether it's moral or immoral, it doesn't matter what makes this guy's sickness any better than mine?
Speaker 1:
38:22 any better or worse than mine? It's not, and mine wasn't.
Speaker 3:
38:26 And also like what gives me the right to be the judge, jury and executioner of this person right.
Speaker 1:
38:32 In my life today there's only one guy that sits that high to look down in judgment. Right, and it's not me, I guarantee you. It's not me, that's right, and you know. Even you know to talk like this, like I don't even consider myself a religious individual, but I have found a spirituality in my life, right, and it helps to guide me with, with these strong set of morals or principles and the spirituality of my life. You know, the way I look at it is what's it to you, how I get to be sober today. Really, I didn't know I was that important and trust me I'm not yeah
Speaker 1:
39:08 right so whatever I'm doing to stay sober today and have this beautiful life and my family and I meet these great and great individuals like yourselves. Whatever I'm doing, can I not just have this? Is it really important how I'm doing it right, the how and the why of it right? Why does it matter? We talked about that. Why does the how and the why of it right? Why does it matter? We talked about that. Why does the how matter too? For me, it doesn't. It's working for me, right. And so if somebody else is able to accomplish something or stay in recovery or have some continued sobriety in their life, what's it matter to me how they do it? There? Many ways to to stay sober and get recovered right. You know, 12 step doesn't have the monopoly on it. It works for me, right. That's my how. So what like to me? Like it's none of my business how somebody else stays sober right.
Speaker 1:
39:59 Can I not just be happy that they're sober for sure? I can't right and you don't have to align with what I believe in and I can still, you know, be glad and be happy and love that you're sober Right.
Speaker 3:
40:13 Well, the thing is too. The thing I love about this show is like it doesn't even have to be in sobriety. It's how people find their own inner peace. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:
40:21 And like everybody knows I'm like you. Everybody knows I'm like you. Everybody knows I'm in recovery. Right, that's what works for me. But we've had guys on who who've gone on their own journeys and found inner peace and and psilocybin journeys with their doctors. You know what I mean. We've had guests who've had extremely near death experiences, like Peter who got shot 26 times and that was his life.
Speaker 1:
40:40 Yeah, I watched that episode. Yeah, that was his life-changing experience that rocked me to my core, Crazy man.
Speaker 3:
40:46 We have beautiful human beings on from all walks of life and how they found their inner peace. But, mark, I'm just like you man. The way I put it is if to keep what I have, if I have to do a few simple things every day that to me aren't that big of an ask, if I got to go to a couple of meetings, I got to pick up the phone for people when they call, and then read a book with some people, if that's all I have to do to keep what I have today, that's a far better price to pay daily than running the risk of going back out. Because I'm like you man. Maybe I did just need a couple of years away from everything. Maybe I could operate like a normal person. But to me the risk isn't worth the reward, because the expense that I'm paying now isn't that fucking expensive in my opinion.
Speaker 2:
41:28 You know what I mean and it's not a chore for me, man, yeah that's what I mean.
Speaker 3:
41:31 Do any of this stuff?
Speaker 1:
41:32 yeah, yeah, no one's making me I don't have to to me, it's gratitude and humility like I get to do this right you know, anthony, we were talking last night and it's like, you know, some we we were saying about.
Speaker 2:
41:45 You know, like you have to go through this in order to pretty much blossom, to be this person that you're really, actually meant to be. Yes, you need to go through these hard times to learn the lessons, and that's I think we're saying. That's what, like a true prayer. I guess you could say and I'm not even saying religious, you can just pray that you. You know what I mean. It's, you don't have to be religious we talk about spirituality and religion.
Speaker 2:
42:11 Yeah yeah, but what it is is like you, you, you know you say I want to be stronger, but then you gotta you go through all these hard troubles in your life and those are the lessons to make you be stronger in the end of it yeah, maybe they are, maybe they are, maybe they aren't Like I don't know.
Speaker 1:
42:29 Well there was a video. It sounds like a great ideal, right. And so for me, eric, I personally have a different experience. I don't say that you need to go through these hard times and these trials because if somebody's listening and they haven't been through them, they say to themselves well, I'm fair enough. I'm not that person, right I'm not this or I'm not that, but you know, my journey is mine and only mine well, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:
42:55 Like yours, it need. You needed to go through that to get to where you are and it's not about that's what I'm saying, not everybody.
Speaker 1:
43:01 That is your journey, that's your heart part is hard at the end of the day. Exactly, right, exactly I you know, you know, my journey is mine and only mine yeah right, and only you can walk that and so you know when I, you know, you know I I speak.
Speaker 1:
43:17 I speak in a lot of places, and the one thing that I that I really like to highlight is, you know, everybody took a journey to get where they are today in life, right, and I guarantee you it didn't look like mine, but that didn't matter, because when we talk about perspective again, I bet you it felt the same inside. That's the important part that you, me and other people can relate to that it felt the same, and I know that because they were in those rooms with me, right, so nobody ended up in a 12-step fellowship or in a 12-step meeting because everything was going fucking great in their life. Right, we didn't walk through the door on a winning streak. That much is probably, could probably agree with right. And so, whatever that journey was, it felt the same as mine because you, you you're here. You're here today. Yeah, that's the important thing. You're here today, right now.
Speaker 3:
44:19 What we all have a story we all got a story that all the time bro landed us here. Yeah, we say that all the time, bro. We say that all the time, right, yeah.
Speaker 1:
44:27 Now, what are you going to do? Are you going to let that story and that terror, maybe that traumatic or that life event thing that happened to you? Are you going to let that define you as a human being? Are you going to fucking?
Speaker 2:
44:40 do something about it. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:
44:43 Now, what? So? What? You're here. Life kicks you in the nuts, man For me. I became an addict and alcoholic and I lost everything. But guess what? It was still my choice, right. Yeah, you can lay these tools at my feet, but guess who has to pick them up every morning? Anthony, you can't pick them up for me. Well, I could, but Eric, you can't do it for me.
Speaker 3:
45:04 I could, but I can only show you how to use them. I can't do it for you.
Speaker 2:
45:08 That's it, right, you can't do it for me. You can take the horse to the water, but you can't make him drink it.
Speaker 1:
45:13 Put salt in the water.
Speaker 3:
45:16 I just want to go back a bit to what Eric was saying about having to go through the hard times. There's a video I saw and this guy uses the analogy and he's like if you were God and you were creating a human being and you wanted this human being to appreciate, like, have gratitude for things, you probably wouldn't give them everything that they wanted right away. If you wanted this person to be patient, you probably wouldn't give them things immediately. You would make them wait. So it's like learning how to understand, like, what's the best way I can wear this? Like the things that are happening to you are happening for you. You know, it's just about how you utilize those things right. Like you, mark, you and I have extremely similar paths. They were both our own journeys. But, man, even tonight, like you've said a lot of things that I can super relate to man, like the thing you said about, like when you don't have drugs or alcohol in your system and you're just like, essentially you, like you are a sad little boy with scared feelings.
Speaker 1:
46:14 Dude, I say all the time A scared little boy with hurt feelings. You know where that's from. So my buddy Mickey O'Brien it's a lyric from one of his songs. Right, I'm just a scared little boy with hurt feelings.
Speaker 3:
46:27 You know what I always say, and this is again. This is on my own journey. I didn't hear from you. When Anthony is in his own skin, alone, without practicing the principles, anthony is just a sad, scared little boy who doesn't have the will to live. Yeah, I got complacent in my career.
Speaker 1:
46:43 You know what that looks like growing up. Mark does not play well, mark acts out, mark does this, mark does that.
Speaker 3:
46:50 If Mark applied himself, he would do good. Mark has anger issues, yeah.
Speaker 1:
46:53 Mark does right, yeah, so I get diagnosed with all these freaking things. But you know what I am? I'm an addict and an alcoholic.
Speaker 3:
47:00 Yep.
Speaker 1:
47:02 Yep on a lot of I got prescribed a lot of anxiety depression medication. Now I'm not I'm not minimizing that there is clinical depression and these types of diseases but turns out I didn't have any of it. Yeah, because when I'm going to my doctor he's he's treating the symptoms and so I'm lying through my teeth fuck, I feel depressed. Doctor, yeah, I'm higher than giraffe pussy man like I got an eight ball under my nose, 24, 7.
Speaker 1:
47:27 Of course I'm depressed yeah I can't get my, I can't put down the bottle, the jack right jack's got me telling lies. Of course I am anxious and depressed, but soon as I that all that stuff goes away, huh, maybe I don't need this medication. And so talked to my. Now I have an honest and authentic conversation with my medical professional and I say, listen, I don't think I'm depressed, I don't think I'm anxious. And he says well, what do you want to do? I said well, let's try and wean off this stuff, right, because I'm sober for the first time in two and a half decades, three decades. So what do we got to lose, right? So decades, three decades. So what do we got to lose, right? So I've been free from all mind-altering substances six months into my recovery. Stop taking SSRIs. I don't take anything anymore. I'm completely clear. Nothing alters my mind, nothing, even prescribed or otherwise. And again, I'm not minimizing the fact that there is clinical depression, right?
Speaker 3:
48:24 I have clinical depression. I did that and it just when I go in there and tell my doctor I'm depressed. There is clinical depression. Right, I have clinical depression. I did that, and it just when I go in there and tell my doctor.
Speaker 1:
48:29 I'm depressed there's no way was I ever sober and there's no way I was telling him the truth. Right, I'm lying through my teeth and he's treating the symptoms that I'm exhibiting.
Speaker 3:
48:40 Yeah, that was one of the first conversations I had when I got out of treatment with my sponsor was like. He said he's like, what are you on? And I was like on sleeping medication and I was on antidepressants. He's like, have you ever been diagnosed while you weren't self-medicating? And I was like, well, fuck, no, like I've been smoking weed since I was 11. He's like, why don't we just try to not be on anything and see how it goes? And he said the same thing. He's like I'm not a fucking doctor, but like let's give it a genuine shot and see what happens yeah, so I got back like listen, man, I'm not a doctor either yeah but.
Speaker 1:
49:12 But I was, I was curious enough and sober, so maybe I'm thinking a little clearer. I don't know.
Speaker 2:
49:18 But it doesn't hurt to to ask my medical professional what he thinks yeah right and monitor my mental health yeah, right, and that's what they're there for, right? Yeah, reach out. Well, some of them fuck, some of them just want to hand you the prescription and get paid.
Speaker 3:
49:33 That's all they can listen, but that's on.
Speaker 1:
49:35 but I you know what, anthony, I gotta own some of that too, like you know, because more often than not it's been my experience that the medical professionals said well, what do you think? I used to think that was weird, like well, you're the fucking doctor. What do you mean? What do I think? Right, but I get it now. I'm like well, I'm thinking, I'm not depressed. And he's like well, let's monitor you as we wean you off these Right.
Speaker 3:
49:59 Yeah. So I got back on meds and I've actually booked an appointment. I don't know we didn't talk about this on air. We talked about this with in one of the interviews I'm gonna look at. I'm gonna go back to my doctors and talk about getting off my meds again and just like see, like how it goes there's different ways man like. There's different ways to find peace like and not just in recovery.
Speaker 1:
50:20 As long as you're speaking to a medical professional and doing it in a prescribed and safe manner, yeah, that's the important thing right.
Speaker 3:
50:28 I never did that shit before, though I was like I take my meds for like three days I'm like these things aren't fucking working. Then I just stopped taking them. My doctor said man, you gotta take 21 days yeah, you got it I was uh, I was out there doing my thing.
Speaker 1:
50:40 I didn't take half the pain meds. You know, I have a. I have a spinal fusion man. I got titanium rods, plates, screws, a bone graph right. I didn't take half the pain meds because it would just loop me. I couldn't drive because I refused not that I refused, but I couldn't stop drinking and drugging. So I just decided well, I'm gonna stop taking my pain meds because I I can't do these other drugs, because I'm fucking walking into walls and drooling and falling over right and I I really need these other things is what I believe.
Speaker 1:
51:15 So I'm just gonna have to go ahead and stop taking my pain meds dr mark at it again yeah right, there's a question anthony, I don't you want to address that.
Speaker 2:
51:23 the question, what's that? There's a question, anthony, I don't know.
Speaker 3:
51:24 Do you want to address that?
Speaker 2:
51:25 What's that? There's a question.
Speaker 3:
51:27 It was a weekend thing that turned into a project.
Speaker 2:
51:29 No, no, no, it worked for you.
Speaker 3:
51:31 It worked for you. What do you mean? It worked for me.
Speaker 2:
51:34 The meds Do they work for you?
Speaker 1:
51:36 Yeah, I think we're talking about the meds there, because it worked for you.
Speaker 3:
51:47 I feel like they did in the beginning. Now listen when it comes to the one thing I will say about prescription medication or any medication whatsoever. The job of the medication isn't to fix the problem directly. It's to aid you in helping you fix it yourself. So my misconstrued idea of antidepressants was I take this pill and then I'm supposed to be happy. That's not what they're there for. I take this pill and then I'm supposed to be happy. That's not what they're there for.
Speaker 3:
52:11 So my depression I've said this before my depression shows itself as I can comfortably lay in bed all day. If I'm unmedicated on my antidepressants and I'm not taking them, I can sleep for fucking 14 hours, wake up for an hour, go right back to bed for three, be up for an hour, and to the point where I'm not taking care of my kids the way they should be taking care of, I'm not feeding them like I would just comfortably stay in bed. So what my medication does is it gets me out of fucking bed. Now to do the other things. That's still my job, but the medication definitely helps get me out of bed and keep me out of bed during the day. It's not like fucking cocaine.
Speaker 1:
52:43 You still have to be a fucking dad. I still have to do the job.
Speaker 3:
52:46 So the problem I had was well like, why isn't this fixing all the fucking problems? Like that's not what it's there for. It's not there to help fix the problem. It's supposed to aid in you helping fix the problem yourself. That was my experience and that's my experience. So I've been on them for like a year and a half and they're still doing their job.
Speaker 3:
53:06 But I feel like I've never I've never genuinely like cared about what I'm putting into my body in terms of food and getting proper exercise, you know, and drinking the right amount of water.
Speaker 3:
53:16 And I've really started to come into this, like this holistic idea of like getting outside, you know, and like drinking good water, making full meals and not just stuffing timmy's in my fucking face every morning before I go to know. And like drinking good water, making full meals and not just stuffing timmy's in my fucking face every morning before I go to work. And like chugging energy drinks all day, like I'm literally weaning myself off them. Right now I'm down to one a day I was too religiously a day, right. So I feel and, eric, you and I were talking about this on the phone earlier like like I've been like for the last like two and a half weeks and it happens so fucking quick, and it does every time. I'm either all in or all out with this type of stuff, so when I'm all in, I'm drinking water. Drinking water doesn't seem like a chore, sounds like addict behavior.
Speaker 3:
53:55 Yeah, 100%. I have a zero sugar Pepsi and I'll tell you right now, the only time I fucking drink these is when we're on the computer, so you'll always see me drinking one, but I swear to god, it's the only time I drink them.
Speaker 1:
54:05 Best thing pepsi did was bring out mountain dew zero.
Speaker 3:
54:08 Oh, I've never had the mountain.
Speaker 1:
54:10 I'm pretty diabetic man, I get to drink mountain dew again yeah, my brother just got diagnosed with type 2 diabetes.
Speaker 3:
54:16 Uh, last week bro wait till you grow into your dad bod that's what I'm trying to avoid by going to the gym and taking care of like what I'm eating and stuff yeah, you know what?
Speaker 1:
54:26 and that's my biggest concern and my wife's concern and my doctor's concern today, right is you know, if my problem is putting the first one in? Well, it goes for food too. I have to eat, though I have to put the first one in, and now it sets off this phenomenon of craving and like, and then I just whatever I'm eating until it's gone, right, like I stopped being hungry after the fifth one.
Speaker 1:
54:49 But the other 200, I ate them anyway, yeah, yeah right and listen, man, like I'm not in good shape, like I'm really not, I'm, I'm tipping in around 300 pounds and, like I said, I went when I went to treatment I was about 180, right, and and that was even heavy. That was even heavy for me, but I looked really sickly at 180, right, and I'm 300 now, and it's just something else that you know. But here's the thing, you heard me say it earlier Until I lose, hurt or suffer enough, I'm not going to fucking change man. Why would you, why would I Dude? I say that all the fucking change man, why would you?
Speaker 3:
55:26 Why would I Dude? I say that all the time too, man Like listen. If I didn't have to go to fucking meetings on Friday nights and pick up the phone for people, I wouldn't. But the payoff is so much greater in doing that simple stuff Because the suffering that I experienced was bad enough that I didn't want to fucking experience it anymore.
Speaker 1:
55:44 You've heard enough. You've suffered enough Right, bad enough that I didn't want to fucking experience it anymore. You heard enough, you suffered enough right, and you lost enough and you finally made the decision right.
Speaker 3:
55:53 Yeah, dude, even in your story when you were talking about, when you heard about 12-step stuff. I'll just give you a little bit of my story. In treatment I remember I was in treatment and sat down with a guy. He kind of did like the first part of the front of the book stuff, and then I remember going to the owner of the treatment center and I'm like listen man, like cut the bullshit, like just give me the fucking answers. I don't want the 12 steps, I don't want praying, I don't want this, I don't want the principles, just like give me the answer, like give me the Colesnotes version. And all he said to me he's like listen man. He's like seven years ago I owned a crane business and I was shooting dope into my arm and now I own a treatment center. What do you think happened? I said I have no fucking idea. That's literally why I'm in your office asking you right now. And he's like I just did what they told me to do. And this is where I ended up and that was my light switch moment.
Speaker 1:
56:41 It's like okay, to this shit if you want what we have, then do what we do yeah, I don't know how many slogans there are and I used to laugh. Slap me with another slogan, because you know there's that, that, that school of thought, that that's all I need to do. Repeat, repeat all these slogans and I get to stay sober off all the work you're doing. Life doesn't work that way? Yeah, not at all you don't get to, you don't have the things you have in life without doing the work.
Speaker 1:
57:06 That's right, there's no life hack for life, there's just you wake up and you do the hard work, man. Life doesn't again, life doesn't knock on your door and go here's everything you ever wanted, eric and Anthony, right, no, no, no, you sit down. I got this, right, no.
Speaker 3:
57:23 That's not how it works, eric. You say that too, like even if I was handed everything that I wanted or thought that I needed right now, the fucking goal post would change right because, okay, now I have this. Well, what more can I get right?
Speaker 1:
57:36 and that's. That's the thing about goals. They're always changing yeah go ahead, eric.
Speaker 2:
57:40 No, but it's even greedy, right. That's when it even starts. You know, everything's just gets handed to you. Then you start getting more greedy because you just now think that it's just going to always come to you because you got it handed to you.
Speaker 1:
57:53 Right, there's no real work in it. Yeah, I lose that humility and that gratitude and I start leaning on that entitlement.
Speaker 2:
58:00 A hundred percent, man, right, that's what you see. And like that's what you see, like I'm going to fucking knock them right now. Man, the kardashians, you know what I mean. Like they're everything's just handed to them. You know it's not.
Speaker 1:
58:12 It's not hard work, you know, someone else had to fucking work so hard to yeah, I'm sure like listen man, like I'm not saying they don't work hard, they've built their brands and that no. But I mean, you know, and that doesn't happen without work, but how you, how you start the getting there, starting line is different for everybody.
Speaker 2:
58:32 That's what I'm talking about. I'm not saying yeah, don't get me wrong. I'm not knocking them on like what they do now, but it's from like. The starting is like exactly what you know.
Speaker 1:
58:40 I uh, you know, years ago I used to speak to college students in the mining engineer. I don't even remember the last time I spoke I was so high. It was in front of about 1,000 students. I sat on the program advisory committee for the mining engineering program at Cambridge College and I'm talking to them and I'm just like my buddy was laughing, he's like whoa standing O, and I don't remember what I said, man, but I basically he broke it down for me, right, and I'm like, well, it's true, like you got no shot against me. You know why? My dad's a mining executive.
Speaker 1:
59:14 Now, that might not seem fair to you, but that's the cards we got dealt right. So the door is going to open for me and not you. But guess what? I walked through that door Now, but I walked through that door. Now I'm judged harder than you would be judged right, because now it's not just me, it's my father's reputation, right, that I'm affecting, and so I have to work twice as hard, even though that door opened for me and you don't have a chance in hell walking through it, right.
Speaker 1:
59:43 I'm entitled to that because of who? My dad was right. So I'm getting the job and you're not, but it's what's going gonna happen after I walk through the door right, I had to work twice as hard to get the same thing as everybody else.
Speaker 1:
59:54 Right now I'm not saying poor me, but I'm just saying that's just the way life is. Sometimes my starting line was different than yours and when I'm talking to these mind engineering students, I'm telling them, like, even while you're still in school, get on linkedin, go build your network, because not everybody's got a father. Yeah right, not everyone's blessed with an executive as a father yeah, you gotta work, sorry, not sorry but that's just the way life goes and it's not fair.
Speaker 2:
1:00:23 Life is not fair man well, like and I I've said this before on other episodes how I, how I teach my daughter you know we used to she used to race my dog down the hallway all the time, and it was one time it was me and her and she's like dad, I want to race you and I'm like I'm gonna kick your fucking ass. She's like, no, you're not. I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna smoke you, man. She's like, nope, so me and her race, I fucking just destroyed her. I never ran that fast in a long time. You know.
Speaker 2:
1:00:50 It was like that, like since, like the cops were chasing me, like I fucking was booting it. You know, I get to the door, I turn around and she's on the ground. She's crying. I'm like why are you crying? So you didn't let me win, why would I let you win? There's nowhere in life that anybody is just gonna let you win. I'm like, if you life that anybody is just going to let you win. I'm like, if you want to be hard work, yeah, you got to put in the work, you got to fucking practice and maybe one day you'll beat me, but probably not because I'm your dad. But I'm saying you got to put in that hard work and that's the only thing that that's going to make you go forward here. No one's going to hand you first place right or we can all have participation medals yeah, fuck that shit man fuck that.
Speaker 2:
1:01:29 Either you're first or you're last. Simple as that man.
Speaker 1:
1:01:32 There's no and and that's it, man, like not everybody could be a winner, but we can all feel like winners, right, because, listen, you know, if I finish first my job's not to look down on you for not right no because maybe tomorrow I'm not first.
Speaker 2:
1:01:48 Yeah, right.
Speaker 1:
1:01:48 I don't get the rest of my laurels and how I live my life today is how can I help you become first?
Speaker 2:
1:01:55 100%.
Speaker 1:
1:01:56 I'm not worried about coming second anymore.
Speaker 2:
1:01:59 I'm okay, that's all right.
Speaker 1:
1:02:00 I want you to win and what can I do to help you win? Yeah, like you said, paying it forward, brother, that's it, and listen, if I train somebody to do my job better than me, now I get to go off and do the next thing. Reach the next goal in my life.
Speaker 2:
1:02:16 Right.
Speaker 1:
1:02:17 So I'm not scared. If you're coming for my job, I'm going to help you. Come for it.
Speaker 3:
1:02:21 Yeah, take it.
Speaker 1:
1:02:22 Yeah, yeah, because that that means you know I've and I've probably you know groomed you into doing it better than I could do it. So now I'm not worried when I go off, right, yeah, you're gonna take care of what I was doing, because you're better at it than I was yeah, that's the problem, though.
Speaker 2:
1:02:40 Nowadays man is like a lot of these kids dude, it's just handouts, handouts, handouts.
Speaker 3:
1:02:45 You know you know, let's face it, there's a lot of men out there that can never change a tire man.
Speaker 3:
1:02:50 You know it's pretty sad like come on boys and I know I've said this on the podcast before, but like one of the things that I struggle with when I own my business, aside from being an active addiction, was finding employees, because I own a construction company and I like I loved hiring people who didn't have a piece of paper. I don't give a, I don't give a fuck if you have a piece of paper that says you know how to square up a wall. Have you ever picked up a nail gun? So I would hire these guys with with no experience, and they would come in and be like well, I want 20 bucks an hour. Have you ever used a saw? No, well then, fuck, do you think you're going to get paid $20 an hour? Yeah, and it was this over, this grandiose fucking level of entitlement with these children, and it's like you have to earn what you want Like nobody, like dude.
Speaker 3:
1:03:35 When I, in 2012, I moved out to Calgary to learn how to frame houses and get in construction, when I was out there, I had friends, older brothers, who had university degrees messaging me, asking me to get them a job working with me, and I didn't even have my high school. It's like you didn't fucking help me pass high school, like fucking figure it out yourself. You know like I came out here, worked my ass off, move home, got heavily addicted to cocaine, fucking got sober, lost the business. You know like I did this all myself. You know like nobody fucking helped me, like this was all on me. You weren't there when I was suffering. You don't get to stand there when I'm winning. I'm sorry, exactly you know you know what?
Speaker 1:
1:04:16 let's talk about the trades. I want to talk about something this hoodie that I held up yeah, yeah this is super exciting. So this guy here, this uh hard rock right. So this is my mining team, so all the funds from this collaboration. They've written a book for elementary students and so all the funds go to buy these books and they distribute them through the elementary schools and it helps them teach and helps them learn about the trades.
Speaker 2:
1:04:44 Good, that's awesome, man Fucking right, isn't that wild?
Speaker 1:
1:04:46 Yeah, dude, that's awesome man.
Speaker 3:
1:04:47 Fucking right man.
Speaker 2:
1:04:47 Isn't that a lot? Yeah, dude, that's awesome man.
Speaker 3:
1:04:48 Yeah Do you know the statistics on that. Right now, for every three people that retire, there's only one person coming in, and it's probably To a trade. To a trade, yeah, to a trade, yeah.
Speaker 1:
1:04:58 No, I'm not familiar with any of the statistics on trades. Trades. I know, I know that this country as a whole be. You know. I don't know if trouble is the right word, but we have to find tradesmen from other countries because there's just not enough of us dude.
Speaker 3:
1:05:12 The guy I work with is from india and he's one of the smartest people I've ever worked with, not like he can just grasp the things a lot like man. I've tried to train people to do my job for the last five years, it doesn't matter where you come from, yeah, are's.
Speaker 1:
1:05:24 Are you willing to learn?
Speaker 3:
1:05:25 Yeah, and this guy man like he's here and he's willing to learn, and it's like fuck.
Speaker 2:
1:05:30 yeah, bro, you want to learn? I'll teach you. Well, man, you can't fix stupid, but you can sure numb it with a two-by-four. I'll tell you that you know.
Speaker 1:
1:05:42 I don't like talking anybody from this country or another to come take my job, because I work hard. And if you're working harder like I said, you can have my job, right, and I'll go on and do something else. Right, like I don't live in fear that way, like you're not coming to take my job, you work for it. Right, you're willing to do something. Somebody else isn't.
Speaker 3:
1:06:06 Yeah.
Speaker 1:
1:06:07 Right, that's not taking something, that's earning something 100%. I don't know. You know we could unpack this whole topic, but like I, yeah, that's for a different episode. Yeah, we're not getting into it. But the important thing is I'm involved with a non-profit doing a collaboration. They've written a book to educate young Canadians, especially in the North here where I live, about the trades and to me that's beautiful. Yeah, man Right, it's beautiful to be a part of of this program.
Speaker 2:
1:06:40 Yeah, definitely that's awesome.
Speaker 1:
1:06:42 It's, uh, it's wild man that uh, even, uh, you know, we give back to the community that way, right, cause, trust me, believe me when I tell you this community for a very, very long time and I could probably do a lifetime of service work just in the community and maybe it'll be enough. I don't know, I don't know, but I don't want to stop, man, I just do, I, uh, I show up for, for my community. My kids have to grow up here. There's got to be something for them, yeah, right, and I just get to learn how to parent them so they understand that your community helps make you who you are and you have to give. Well, I guess you don't have to do anything, but you get to give back to it. And really it's a really important part of my life today how can we continually or continuously give back to the communities that we're a part of? Right, because I isolated and harmed it for a very long time, man you know?
Speaker 2:
1:07:43 oh yeah, man, definitely. Well, I think it's time for the question it's time for the question like.
Speaker 1:
1:07:49 This is my one energy drink, and I only drank it because it's way past my bedtime. Yeah, here you, brother, I'm just gonna start talking gibberish soon, for sure.
Speaker 3:
1:07:59 Okay, well, we got one. Like the minions. We got one question for you, buddy. Your one question what is your message to the world in one sentence?
Speaker 1:
1:08:06 Be a human being. That's it, man. Do something because you ought to want to do it, because it's the right thing to do. Yeah, that's it, that's it. That's what our whole company is built on, right. That's why we started this apparel company so someone can wear. Can I just say you guys look great.
Speaker 3:
1:08:27 Yeah, man, thank you, they're all wearing mad apparel hats.
Speaker 1:
1:08:30 There's a different style.
Speaker 2:
1:08:31 There's all the styles.
Speaker 1:
1:08:33 And you guys, we're all wearing mad apparel hoodies and, yeah, this clothing is no fucking joke.
Speaker 3:
1:08:39 Just so everyone knows, this clothing is dope as fuck, Like mine's wrinkly.
Speaker 2:
1:08:42 Hell yeah man.
Speaker 3:
1:08:43 I'm terrible at folding my laundry when it comes out of the dryer. Check it out there.
Speaker 2:
1:08:47 Right on, Thanks guys. Yeah, click the link.
Speaker 1:
1:08:50 And that's the idea. Right, you brought up the Kardashians. You don't need to have a last name, you don't have to be anybody famous or special. The idea is when you put on one of our garments you can make a difference. Yeah, man, right, be a human being, do something for somebody.
Speaker 2:
1:09:06 Right, you can do it, get mad, make a difference definitely and I just want to say, um, look out for, uh, our collab, the hoodie that we're going to drop, it's going to be out soon, so just look out for that.
Speaker 1:
1:09:19 That logo here and behind Eric. It's going to be wild on the front of one of the Mad Hoodies man it's going to be sick? I want to ask you guys a question. We're going to drop it on our socials, but with everything that's going on in the world and being proudly Canadian and the name of our company, mad, make a difference. We uh want to put on the front of our design on our hoodies and shirts it just says mad hey, oh yeah, oh yeah mad.
Speaker 1:
1:09:49 Hey, I don't know do it we're playing around with some good man we're playing around with some uh design ideas.
Speaker 2:
1:09:57 Just uh mad hey do it because I want you to get mad right.
Speaker 1:
1:10:02 I want you to make a difference. You don't have to be anyone special. You're all special. We're all miraculous angels here, man yeah, man, right 100.
Speaker 2:
1:10:11 Look at us, we're just normal fucking dudes doing something right, trying to give back to the community, right?
Speaker 1:
1:10:16 anybody can do it right yeah. Guys, I want to thank you for taking the time today to have me on. It was a riot. It was a riot. Maybe you know, once we get the hoodie collab going and I get it sent out to you guys, and when you're done with the program and you're about to give it away, maybe we'll come on. Oh uh, when you're done with the program and you're about to give it away maybe.
Speaker 2:
1:10:41 Uh, we'll come on and oh, you'll be here. You'll be here, oh yeah, yeah, we're doing this together, man.
Speaker 1:
1:10:44 What do you mean? Yeah, get to see uh which one of your followers? Uh, listen, if we were to, and the design concepts we're using. It's a $250 hoodie.
Speaker 3:
1:10:57 That's what we would sell for on our shop yeah, plus tax and shipping, yeah, you're over $300.
Speaker 1:
1:11:02 Yeah, plus tax, plus shipping, no tariffs. Plus, it's a one-off for now, right, and it is a one-off man.
Speaker 3:
1:11:08 And tariffs, yeah, 25%, no tariffs, it's all Canadian.
Speaker 2:
1:11:11 But, yeah, look out for the giveaway that we're going to do. We'll get a little bit more closer in details when we get. We get up there, so when we get the hoodies, cause we don't want anybody jumping, jumping like that yet.
Speaker 3:
1:11:22 But in the meantime, make sure you're following them at shop Matt apparel on all social media except Tik TOK, right.
Speaker 1:
1:11:28 Yeah, we're not on Tik TOK yet I got to talk to the marketing team and see how it's on our radar and everything's planned right Like they. Just I don't know how they're going to do it, but we're going to be moving onto that platform as well and we'll see what that looks like in the in the near future.
Speaker 3:
1:11:45 Dude, get your son to run it. Man, like I'm telling you, like teenagers are, like they're the best at that stuff. They're the best, yeah, I know Way better than me.
Speaker 1:
1:11:55 I can't even get my Instagram logins on my phone man and I'm an IT guy right Design underground networks in the harshest of environments, and I can't add an Instagram account to my own device.
Speaker 3:
1:12:09 Dude, I couldn't even send you an invite for this fucking interview I sent it to the wrong email.
Speaker 2:
1:12:14 Do you know? All of us are older than Google.
Speaker 3:
1:12:17 For sure bro.
Speaker 1:
1:12:18 I told my daughter that the other day and she's like what, I'm older than the internet.
Speaker 2:
1:12:22 Yeah.
Speaker 1:
1:12:22 I've been to the end of the internet man, it's not that special.
Speaker 3:
1:12:28 There's not much outside of it anyways, not anymore.
Speaker 1:
1:12:30 Well, I'm probably decades older than both you guys.
Speaker 2:
1:12:34 I'm turning 41. I'm turning 41. Well, in a couple of months.
Speaker 1:
1:12:37 I'm turning 550 in a couple of months. Man, I remember you telling me that you're, you're, you'll be nine.
Speaker 2:
1:12:44 You're nine, nine days older than me, nine there you go.
Speaker 1:
1:12:47 Only a decade yeah yeah, only a decade yeah yeah, anthony's coming out.
Speaker 3:
1:12:51 If that's why he's coming out, it's my 41st birthday yeah, so actually when I, when I go out Whitey, I'm going out for a week. My four years will be while I'm out there and it's Eric's birthday while I'm out there.
Speaker 1:
1:13:03 Beautiful. What an opportunity to spend some time together.
Speaker 3:
1:13:06 Oh yeah, man, that's going to be great man.
Speaker 1:
1:13:08 Yeah, someone in your chat is talking encyclopedias and pretend.
Speaker 2:
1:13:18 Back in the day.
Speaker 1:
1:13:18 I actually had somebody knock on my door trying to sell me those like not my door, my parents door, I had them, man.
Speaker 2:
1:13:21 I had, like they're all red. And then you got the blue set too, man, we had them all man I read them all I've still got.
Speaker 3:
1:13:29 man, I, I'm not even shitting you, I've got like in my daughter's room there is a fucking tote and I'm telling you there's got to be 60 plus issues of National Geographic in there.
Speaker 2:
1:13:40 Like just the random ones. Yeah, it's crazy. Those are good old days, man, the good old days. Well, on that note, I'll let you go to bed here, mark. I know it's past bedtime, so.
Speaker 1:
1:13:51 It's 11 o'clock here guys, yeah man. Thank you everybody.
Speaker 2:
1:13:58 We're. Yeah, man, thank you everybody. We're raw minds. Check us out if you want to be in the hot seat like mark here. I hit us up at raw minds podcast at gmailcom. Uh, hit our website up at raw minds. Or just hit us up on any of our social medias. Just fucking go right in and google and type in raw minds. We're the first like 10 fucking things that pop up, man.
Speaker 3:
1:14:14 So just just check us out there, man, we're, we're everywhere and once again, mark, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story and, like I'm, we're both. I don't want to speak for eric, but I know we're both super excited for what lies ahead, whatever that may be there's a lot going on right guys, we got a lot of conversations to have with stuff, so your following can be sporting.
Speaker 1:
1:14:39 the Raw Minds graphics.
Speaker 2:
1:14:42 Hell yeah, man Absolutely Right.
Speaker 1:
1:14:44 I'm really looking forward to putting that design catalog together for you guys, yeah.
Speaker 3:
1:14:48 I was literally working on some stuff beforehand.
Speaker 1:
1:14:51 I was showing Eric some design ideas. Let me get this closer for you.
Speaker 3:
1:14:55 Hell, yeah, yeah, show this thing off, man this thing is huge, bro.
Speaker 1:
1:14:58 I made it in a 3X.
Speaker 3:
1:15:00 Did you? So you can see that's sick dude.
Speaker 1:
1:15:04 Hell yeah, I can't even see you're getting it lined up here.
Speaker 2:
1:15:07 Is that the same material that we're throwing on the hoodie?
Speaker 3:
1:15:17 No, no, what I do need to do before I leave, I need to buy.
Speaker 1:
1:15:20 You made it in Fat man sizes so I could wear it.
Speaker 3:
1:15:22 I need to buy some hoodies off you for Eric and I, because I'm going to bring one out with me when I go see him.
Speaker 1:
1:15:28 Yeah, man, Were you guys able to see the Darkness hoodie?
Speaker 2:
1:15:33 Yeah, man, yeah, we could see it in the back yeah it's sick, it's really sick, man.
Speaker 1:
1:15:38 That whole collection, our first collection, is called out of the darkness right, yeah yeah, and it's because we you know, the other co-founder and myself literally walked out of that darkness, right, but we put it on our back because it's. It's just never that far away, right that's right.
Speaker 2:
1:15:53 Check it out, guys, check it out. There you go, yeah, yeah watch.
Speaker 1:
1:15:56 There you go, watch. The shop's got an overhaul coming. The marketing team has all new photos of all the items they're posting, and only the out of the darkness. So black on black on black is up there, as you can see the navy white gray, these discs. None of this has been released yet. Right Even the hat Eric's's wearing it's not even on the shop yet vip baby. New drops all the time coming, man hell yeah yeah, so check them out.
Speaker 2:
1:16:27 Yeah, it's a good cause, it goes to a good cause, and if you um buy any of the raw mind stuff when we do post that up too, uh, we're putting a donation as well to your guys's cause, right?
Speaker 1:
1:16:40 so we're giving back to you guys yeah, yeah, I can't wait, right, yeah, man, so it's it's full circle, all the way around yeah, yeah, once we get fully launched, man, I can't wait I can't wait to see what programs we put together and collabs we do with you guys. I'm really, really looking forward and I'm really excited to get things moving here.
Speaker 2:
1:17:00 Oh, we are too, man. Definitely we are too. We talk about it all the time, so I can't wait.
Speaker 1:
1:17:06 If you want to look at some of the organizations we're aligned with, if you go to our website, our shop store, and you click on brand ambassadors, you're going to see a few there, my one buddy, mickey O'Brien, who's a brand ambassador. And then we have right now there's two organizations and more coming. There's one, the Synapsis Network, this nonprofit out of Queen's University in Kingston. We're working and creating all their merch for them. And then, anthony, you're obviously familiar with Relating and Recovery as well. So we have they're up there right now and a whole bunch of their items are coming. Hopefully, within the next couple of weeks we'll launch all their stuff too. Nice.
Speaker 2:
1:17:46 So great, yeah, and we have the Society coming too, so you may have one more on your plate there. Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:
1:17:53 Man, it's just an exciting and fun time guys.
Speaker 2:
1:17:56 How are you thanks?
Speaker 1:
1:17:57 again, thanks to all your listeners, man, and your followers, for hanging in with us. I know it's uh, it's late on the east coast anyway, and uh, you guys are troopers. Man, thanks for sticking it out with us.
Speaker 2:
1:18:08 I can't I love man listening to my trooperish. Yeah, thank you for coming out, man, it was a great time. We'll we'll see you definitely again when, when, uh, everything else.
Speaker 3:
1:18:16 We'll be in touch all the time, All right guys have a good night, I'm going to sign off. All right.
Speaker 1:
1:18:20 You're a good brother Leave. There's a big red button that says leave, Get out. All right, man. Thanks everybody.
Speaker 2:
1:18:27 I'll see you later Take care Well, what a great other episode, man.
Speaker 3:
1:18:32 Hell, yeah, yeah man.
Speaker 2:
1:18:33 So, like we said, look out for us, look out for the drop. When we do drop, you want to maybe tell them what we're going to have to do or we'll just hold off.
Speaker 3:
1:18:41 We'll hold off. Okay, we're going to hold off. Yeah, on that note, great episode, great episode, as always. We'll see you next week. Bye, we'll see you next time.
