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Welcome to Podcasting Tech, a podcast that equips busy
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entrepreneurs engaged in podcasting with proven and cost effective
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solutions for achieving a professional sound and appearance. I'm
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Matthew Passi, your host and a fifteen year veteran in the podcasting
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space. We'll help you cut through the noise and offer guidance on software and
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hardware that can elevate the quality of your show. Tune in weekly
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for insightful interviews with tech creators, behind the scenes studio tours, and
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strategies for podcasting success. Head to
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podcastingtech.com to subscribe to this show on YouTube or your favorite
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podcast platform, and join us on this exciting journey to unlock the full
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potential of your podcast. Not
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everybody uses a podcast the exact same way. In fact, when you ask
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folks, how do you measure success of a podcast? You know, ask 10
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people, get 11 different answers. And our guest
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today was one of the first people who I who I know really
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took one of those more unique strategies and turned it into
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a, you know, full grown podcasting business and strategy for
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clients and one that I've seen done on a smaller scale, but not to their
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level and excited to get into it today. We are chatting with Jeremy
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Weiss. He's the cofounder of RISE twenty five Media. You can learn more about
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them at inspireinsider.com. Jeremy, it is great to see you and
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chat with you today. Matthew, thanks for having me. Great to see you.
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And even though he doesn't want me to say this, he is actually doctor Jeremy
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Weiss. He was a he is a chiropractor, was a chiropractor.
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So the question becomes, how do you go from doctor Jeremy Weiss to, you know,
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running a successful podcasting company, RISE
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twenty five? So, you know, it's
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funny. In chiropractic school, ever since I was little, my
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dad suffered with neck pain, and the only thing that helped helped him over
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time, even though he went to lots of doctors, was a chiropractor. So I decided
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early on, you know, I'm really into natural health.
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I, you know, I decided to do that as a profession.
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Going through chiropractic school, they don't teach you anything in business. Like, I think a
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lot of medical professions or if you're in law, whatever, it
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is professional school. They're not talking about business. Right? So when I got out of
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school, I knew how to be a chiropractor. I didn't really
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know how to run a business. So I was going to these marketing and,
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at that time, we're talking about, like,
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02/1967, these marketing conferences and
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some of them were Internet marketing conferences. You know, this thing
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called the lab and how you market online, and I
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stumbled across some early on people doing
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podcasting. Right? And I I don't even know at the time if we called
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it podcasting. I think it was called, like, online interviews or something.
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And it, like, was the perfect mix of my personality
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of curiosity, professional development,
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forming amazing relationships, and content. And so I
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started, podcasting at the time and and,
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you know, what happened was and this was not about the health profession. What
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happened was people started coming to me at that time asking me to help
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them, launch and run their podcast. Right? And so I'm
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like, sure. At that point, I built up a small
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team because, obviously, I was running a chiropractic practice full time. I couldn't do
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all the things, that I needed to do. And so I
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started helping people from the strategy,
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piece and and then all the back end related
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execution stuff. And so by accident, that turned into a separate
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business. Actually, I met my business partner,
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and you could probably appreciate this, Matthew. The, I tell
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people everything, almost everything good in my life tracks back to a
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podcast. Okay? Like, I did not meet my wife on a podcast, of course.
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Jordan Harbinger actually he's he runs Jordan Jordan Harbinger
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show. I think that he gets upwards of $10,000,000 a month. Did
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actually meet his wife through the podcast his podcast.
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And I think he told the story on my podcast at some point. But
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I did not meet my wife, but I did meet my business partner,
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through podcasting because he, John Corcoran, was early on the podcasting
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too. And I've met some best friends. I've
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gone to people's weddings. I've gone on family vacations with people I've met through the
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podcast. So that's kind of how it started, and,
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it took it took on a life of its own. Eventually, I
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exited the chiropractic business and focused full time on RISE
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twenty five, helping businesses with podcasts.
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Excellent. I I love the the idea of all the good things that have happened
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happened, you know, through someone you met on a podcast. That's how we met. Right?
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I mean, that's really how we met. We met through a podcast client. Right? Very
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famously, there's a gentleman, Dave Jackson, the podcasting space who, you
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know, he would say because my podcast, and He would have people tell stories of,
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you know, amazing and great things that have happened to them because of because they
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had a podcast, and so I always love hearing about that.
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So RISE 25, you know, as we were getting ready to hit record and I
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was telling you, right, we added this and we can clean this up and all
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that stuff, and you said, whatever, you know, whatever we say, just let it out
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there, you know, the the least amount of work possible. And it's
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because your approach to podcasting, your approach to
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how businesses, how professionals can get the most out of podcasting,
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differs greatly from what is the mainstream focus.
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Right? For most podcasting, the mainstream focus is
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largest audience possible, whether that's to monetize that
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audience or whether it's to sell products to that audience, build
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your, you know, huge, audience space so you can do other things with
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them. And and we've talked about it on this show too plenty of times, and
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I've done it personally, but not all podcasters care about the audience.
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Sometimes the the real focus is really the other person on the microphone.
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So tell me a little bit about your approach to podcasting and
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how your clients and how you've seen that return on investment
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through this medium. Yeah. That's a great question.
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And, sometimes, Matthew, I don't even realize that not
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everyone thinks like this. I'm like, okay. This is normal. But
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the the first part of what you said, I believe, you know, the medium of
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podcasting is amazing because it's really an authentic conversation.
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And so that's why I was like, just keep it in. Like,
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I like I think when people have
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blemishes, they're vulnerable, or they say things that like, I've
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mispronounced my name on my podcast before. Like, how is that possible? Well, I just
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leave it all in because who cares? It's fine.
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Right? People make mistakes, and it's fine to leave it
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all in there. So I believe because, you know, some of our clients
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also, they they have they got to where they are because they have a perfectionist
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sometimes mentality and they want everything perfect. And
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and I'm similar. Right? But I've just learned
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to let it flow. It's it's fine. This medium is
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an authentic conversation. And then, yeah, what you said about the
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largest audience, we do have to and when I'm
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talking, I'm really talking from a b to b podcasting standpoint.
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Right? So, like, if someone has, like, a comedy podcast or a
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true crime podcast, they really do, a lot of times, need
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audience, to, you
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know, to kind of push their initiatives forward. But when
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I'm talking about, like, a b to b business and they
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probably have a larger client lifetime value, for
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me, the relationships are key. It's not about the audience. It's
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not about the quantity. It's about the quality. Right? So, like,
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if we're working with, you know, a b to b SaaS company
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that specializes in ecommerce, for instance. Right? As an example,
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if they get in front of a million people, yeah, they could probably sell ads
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or if they get in front of, like, 10,000 people or something. But for
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them, if they sell a software software and the average client
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lifetime value for them is $10.20, $30.40,
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$50,000, you know, they really just wanna get
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in front of the niche of ecommerce people. Right? So
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the audience, it's more of a quality than the
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quantity piece. And so you said it, you know,
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what we really talk about and think about is
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our relationships. And for me, the number one thing in
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my life is a way looking at ways how I can give to my best
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relationships. And you're the same. Right? I've found no better
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way to profile the people and companies I admire and
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share with the world what they're working on on my podcast, and I could form
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a deeper relationship. Like, after this, like, we've known each other, but we will have
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a deeper relationship after the show. We get to
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chitchat and talk, you know, for however long.
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Right? And so it's about relationships, and so that's the way I think about
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it. And, you know, we talk about kinda our five
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steps to profit with a podcast, and I'm talking about b to b podcast.
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And the first step of that, process is
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really to create a dream two hundred. You know? And some people think of
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dream two hundred as, like, clients.
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We kind of think of it as, yeah, it could be clients, potential
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clients. It could also be strategic and referral partners. It could
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be big authorities in a specific space, arena. Like, if
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someone's in ecommerce or someone's in, you know, focus on dentists or
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someone focus on whatever genre they focus in on. And so
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that's kind of what we think about is all those amazing
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relationships in that specific niche that would be
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valuable to connect with, not only from, you know,
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obviously, you confer business back and forth, maybe, someone becomes
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a client, but also from a professional development standpoint. I've learned a lot
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in different industries that I've taken into my industry,
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from the podcast as well. So you
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say a a dream 200, and that doesn't always have to
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be your your target customers
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or your target clients. I I I don't know if I could come
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up with a dream 200. Like, where where does that list come from for a
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lot of people? Who you know, is it am I actually giving you specific
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names? Bob Smith, you know, Al Jensen,
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Jane Doe. Totally. Well, we we'll you know, the first
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stage when we work with someone is we help them develop that dream
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200, but I'll give you a few examples. Right? Now there's warm
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and there's cold. So I'll kinda separate them out. Right? So you have a lot
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of warm relationships over the past decade
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that, would fall into this category. Right? So we wanna
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explore those first, which is warm. But when we think of
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cold, I'll give you some examples. Right? There's some common
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trends that we see from, like, thinking of Dream 200 cold
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relationships. Right? So we think of who are,
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consultants consultants or practice management groups in your industry.
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Who are some trade associations, conferences,
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software people are using. Like, an example, like so I'll just say from the
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chiropractic niche. Let's say there was a digital agency
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and they focused on service professionals. And I know digital agencies
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that literally only focus on dentists or only focus on
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chiropractors. Right? Let's take the chiropractor niche. Well, there's,
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you know, a lot of practice management groups in the chiropractic
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industry, and these and I know because I've been a part of them. These practice
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management groups, people are paying a thousand a
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month. You know, they've been maybe paying 10,000 a year,
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20,000, 30 thousand. Right? They take their business seriously.
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Right? So if I could actually,
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you know, form relationships with some of these people who run these practice management
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groups, they have control of these
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reservoir of chiropractors. Right? And they I've, you
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know, I've seen people they could speak on stage at one of the conferences. They
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could do a webinar for them. There's all their ways they can collaborate. Right? So,
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we look at those categories to think of and brainstorm
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because most people in math here are like you. You're like, I don't know if
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I have I guarantee you, like, when I'm talking to someone, like, I don't someone
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has come to me, like, we only have we don't they were in oil and
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gas. We only have we know we only have
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232 potential clients in the space.
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Okay? Like, there's nothing else beyond that. And I'm like,
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okay. I'll play with you. I'll play along. Let's do
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this. Right? But once we got done with the process, we're like, okay.
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There's a lot more people in the space than maybe
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potential clients too. Right? So there's consultants in the
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oil and gas that don't do what this company does, you know,
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that has lots of clients in the space. So there's those are the categories
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we think about to kinda brainstorm under, to
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get that list of people, you know, in the in the
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industry or kind of the prefer. And so I
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imagine, right, you make this list of 200 people and the idea is to then
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see if these folks will come on, you know, be a guest on the podcast.
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But I'm guessing that being a guest on the podcast is
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like the smallest part of the puzzle.
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Right? Like, what is it actually what's actually gonna happen
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if I make this list of 200 and say the first ten people, you
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know, say yes? Like, where does it go from, great. You've been on the podcast.
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Now what? Yeah. So yeah. So the first step,
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obviously, create that dream 200. The second step is the
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outreach. People fail with the outreach. Right? Like, you said,
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okay. They come on. Some people are caught up in, well, I don't
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even know how to reach out. I don't know what to say. Right? So the
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outreach piece is the next piece typically, and
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it has to be a nicely copywritten message, right, with social proof and
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other elements. So let's assume, like you said, they say yes. Alright. They
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come on. Now it's, we get
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into the questions typically, and you get this question a lot, I'm sure, too, which
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is, okay. How do I produce amazing content? What's, like, the
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technology setup? They get caught up in the technology setup. Right?
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And, so they're comfortable once a person comes
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on and, like, you're using Riverside. I, you
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know, I use Zoom simply back whenever
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I started over fifteen years ago, there was no Zoom or Riverside. So
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I think I was using Skype video at the time and coaching people on how
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to set up on their computer. But there's a lot of options. Right? There's StreamYard.
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There's Riverside. There's Zoom. I I honestly don't care what people use
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as long as they're comfortable with it and it's an easy experience for the for
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the guest. And then obviously a mic setup. Right? I'm
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using a a Yeti, Blue Yeti. What do you use? That looks like a nice
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mic. Is that a Rode? What is that? No. It's an Electrovoice RE 20.
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Okay. It's a old mic I got from my old Wall Street Journal
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radio. It looks nice. You know, you could get one.
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You know, I think I have an ATR 2,100 over there. It's like a hundred
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bucks you can get get one. So once you have someone on, you're comfortable with
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the setup, it's professional. You know, really, for me,
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it's having a great conversation, and being
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curious. Right? So the content piece and what's in the content,
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and how the interview goes is is paramount because you want the person
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leaving being like, you know, that Matthew's awesome. That was fun.
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That was fun to talk to, ask good questions. And so,
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it's the content piece, right, which is, you know,
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just being curious. I tell people I kinda again, they're they have
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a they're all in their own head around this stuff, which is, oh my god.
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I'm interviewing someone. Like, you know, you and I are used to this, and we
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just have conversations. But some people aren't. They just show up and they're nervous. I
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had a really successful lady who grew,
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you know, her business to, like, 60 locations. And, you
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know, I was shocked of, you know, that she was a little
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nervous for the interview part. Right? And so just making him feel comfortable
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in in having that conversation. Right? Now afterwards,
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like, the way I think of it broadly is how do I give
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as much as humanly possible for this person? Right?
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Because it's not about it's this is gonna sound weird, Matthew. Okay?
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I don't have someone on my show to get a
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client. I don't have show someone on my show to get a partner.
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Okay? What I do have someone on my show is my goal is to actually
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get them a client or to get them a partner, introduce them.
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Now if it's someone like we are talking, we help a lot of people in
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the b to b SaaS business, a lot of people in in in agency
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space, in manufacturing, in b two b, you know, type of
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space. I know if they're, you know, in the market or they
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know someone and if I have a SaaS founder on, it's more to make an
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introduction to them who could be a maybe a client or a partner.
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And that's my goal. Right? Because I'm just trying to give to them. I profile
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them. Obviously, the episode comes out. And so, like, I'm looking
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for those touch points of how I can give to that individual and further the
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relationship. Right? Because it's not, for me, it's not transactional.
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I'm not there. Obviously, if we do business together, awesome.
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But, my main goal is to just have those touch
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points and those gives. And the for me, one of the biggest touch points is
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obviously we we record the episode, then we push it out, as
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a separate blog post. Then we'll do a snippet of it, push it out on
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social. And we may do multiple snippets of it and push it out over social
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over a month, six months, a year. Then I'm looking at who I can
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introduce them to. Right? And so those touch points, and then if
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I'm in the area, like we talked about, I said, Matthew, if you're in Chicago,
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00:17:49
let me know. You know, like, if we're in the same city, I tell them
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00:17:52
and people do come through Chicago. So they're they'll contact me, like,
Speaker:
00:17:56
hey. I'm here, and we'll maybe go to dinner or I'll get a group of
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00:17:59
entrepreneurs and go to dinner. I was just in Miami,
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00:18:03
for, an event, and I put together 50
Speaker:
00:18:07
entrepreneurs, and we did a networking at a brewery.
Speaker:
00:18:10
And these like, there was a bunch who were past podcast guests who I just
Speaker:
00:18:14
reached out to and we actually touched you know, we're able to get that touch
Speaker:
00:18:18
point in person and meet in person. So it goes beyond the like,
Speaker:
00:18:21
you're saying, what do you do? Now, obviously, I make it
Speaker:
00:18:25
known. They know what I do. Like, I don't need to, like, shove it in
Speaker:
00:18:28
their face. You know? So they know what I do at that point,
Speaker:
00:18:31
and it I kinda let it naturally flow. Not everyone's like that, but
Speaker:
00:18:35
I that's just my my philosophy. It so you
Speaker:
00:18:39
really are playing a long game. And and I don't mean to use game
Speaker:
00:18:43
like this isn't a joke. Right? This is you you're not being inauthentic
Speaker:
00:18:47
when you do these things, but, you know, that that's the language that we use
Speaker:
00:18:50
to describe this. So this isn't about a short term return. Right?
Speaker:
00:18:54
I'm not hiring RISE twenty five because I need to, you know, increase sales
Speaker:
00:18:58
by 200,000 percent over the next twelve weeks, and, you
Speaker:
00:19:01
guys are promising me that. This is how to
Speaker:
00:19:05
grow and expand your network and community,
Speaker:
00:19:09
which will eventually lead to more success and more
Speaker:
00:19:13
opportunities down the road. That's totally fair to say.
Speaker:
00:19:16
Yeah. So I'm curious then. So
Speaker:
00:19:20
you've been doing this for quite some time now. Right? This isn't
Speaker:
00:19:24
a a new thing for you. You've seen changes in podcasting.
Speaker:
00:19:28
Has any of the changes in podcasting really changed your approach
Speaker:
00:19:31
or your strategy, or or is it fairly constant
Speaker:
00:19:35
because it's less about the technical
Speaker:
00:19:38
nature of podcasting and more just about this is a
Speaker:
00:19:42
great way to network and grow and
Speaker:
00:19:46
meet people? Yeah. A %. Yeah. It it it, it's a
Speaker:
00:19:50
good question. I can't say it has changed
Speaker:
00:19:54
anything. I think it it, for
Speaker:
00:19:57
for in in some respects, it's actually accelerated that thought process. You
Speaker:
00:20:01
know? I remember, you know, what during COVID, people couldn't meet
Speaker:
00:20:05
in person, and they were trying to find ways, which I
Speaker:
00:20:09
think, you know, to you and me, it seemed pretty obvious. Like
Speaker:
00:20:13
but people not everyone was using Zoom. Not everyone
Speaker:
00:20:16
was using virtual meetings as frequently, as I
Speaker:
00:20:20
was or you were. And so it some for some people, it's a
Speaker:
00:20:24
novel concept. Like, they depended on networking groups in
Speaker:
00:20:27
person. They depended on events in person, and they needed to find a
Speaker:
00:20:31
way to really connect with people outside of that. So I
Speaker:
00:20:35
think what I found, that COVID really
Speaker:
00:20:38
accelerated that process and people were open and
Speaker:
00:20:42
using those mediums, the the virtual mediums
Speaker:
00:20:45
to actually connect. And we got a flood of people like, okay. I can't
Speaker:
00:20:49
do all the stuff I was normally doing in person. What do I do?
Speaker:
00:20:53
And so it was just the same stuff that we
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00:20:56
were, doing ourselves and and helping
Speaker:
00:21:00
our clients do as well. Have you ever seen
Speaker:
00:21:04
this not work? And if
Speaker:
00:21:08
so, what was it that
Speaker:
00:21:11
was not that I'm questioning the strategy, but maybe
Speaker:
00:21:15
the the the person who was executing it. Right? Like, you guys have a game
Speaker:
00:21:18
plan. You've seen it work. You've you've got the case studies. Right? You've got the
Speaker:
00:21:22
proof. But I'm sure somebody came along, was like, I wanna do this. It didn't
Speaker:
00:21:25
work. And, you know, I'm sure they've tried to blame you, but you're like, here's
Speaker:
00:21:28
what really happened. Have you seen it? Oh, that's funny.
Speaker:
00:21:33
No. No one ever blames no. Of course. Yeah.
Speaker:
00:21:39
The way I think of it, Matthew, is that it's an if,
Speaker:
00:21:43
it's a it's a when, not if. Okay? So,
Speaker:
00:21:47
what I mean by that is,
Speaker:
00:21:51
one, you know, when does it not work? Well,
Speaker:
00:21:55
you're you're you're gonna hear my opinion here. When when someone's not as
Speaker:
00:21:58
coachable, it doesn't work. When they there are certain elements that we want
Speaker:
00:22:02
them to do, within the interview, before the
Speaker:
00:22:06
interview, and the reach out. And so
Speaker:
00:22:10
the when it doesn't work is they're not
Speaker:
00:22:13
reaching out to the right people. One. Okay. So we're talking about the
Speaker:
00:22:17
dream 200. People get,
Speaker:
00:22:21
there's there's a little bit I I don't know if ego is too strong a
Speaker:
00:22:24
word. I don't mean it in a negative sense, but, like, people are going after,
Speaker:
00:22:28
like, big names, okay, in whatever
Speaker:
00:22:32
industry or in all industries. Right? And they're focused on big
Speaker:
00:22:36
names. What I have found with big names
Speaker:
00:22:40
is what happens, they
Speaker:
00:22:45
usually, people are like, oh, they have a big audience or big name. I find
Speaker:
00:22:49
that the smaller the the guests who have smaller followings who aren't
Speaker:
00:22:52
as big, quote, unquote, whatever big means, actually promote the
Speaker:
00:22:56
episode more, get more views. And you're I see you nodding
Speaker:
00:23:00
here because you you you can relate to this. When people just go after big
Speaker:
00:23:04
name after big name after big name, they think it's going
Speaker:
00:23:07
to result in all this audience and all these downloads,
Speaker:
00:23:11
and that person's probably been on 30 other shows. Right? And
Speaker:
00:23:15
they're probably not they're just busy. They're not gonna take the time to promote the
Speaker:
00:23:19
episode like someone else would. So I see people
Speaker:
00:23:22
going after and that that is one category. Like, when I think
Speaker:
00:23:26
of five types of categories of types of guests or types of
Speaker:
00:23:29
episodes, that is a a an important one to have
Speaker:
00:23:33
authorities, big authorities. But they don't have to be like, a
Speaker:
00:23:37
household name. They could just be a specific niche.
Speaker:
00:23:40
Okay? I remember someone mentioned,
Speaker:
00:23:45
the godfather of HR, Matthew, okay, on the on my
Speaker:
00:23:48
podcast. Okay? And I was like, oh, who's the godfather of HR?
Speaker:
00:23:52
Right? I've never heard of this person. And the thing is, in the HR
Speaker:
00:23:56
community, people have heard of the person. But outside of it,
Speaker:
00:24:00
they didn't. So it was interesting because,
Speaker:
00:24:05
you know, having that person on was a big authority in certain
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00:24:08
spaces, but, you know, the thing is,
Speaker:
00:24:13
they weren't like this huge name. I don't even know.
Speaker:
00:24:17
Well, you know, to give an example, I don't know if
Speaker:
00:24:20
someone is like Tony Robbins or something. Right? And, like, you know, Tony
Speaker:
00:24:24
Robbins would be an amazing guest to have. I I love his stuff.
Speaker:
00:24:27
I'm sure he I don't know if he's really gonna promote the episode afterwards because
Speaker:
00:24:31
he's so busy. But, I had, Dave Ulrich
Speaker:
00:24:34
on. Right? Who is someone called him
Speaker:
00:24:38
the the godfather of HR. He had on he was
Speaker:
00:24:42
super nice. So focusing on the wrong types of guests
Speaker:
00:24:46
too much, I think, is a mistake I see people make.
Speaker:
00:24:51
I see people, you know, kinda being a perfectionist.
Speaker:
00:24:55
So they need to have everything perfect, for
Speaker:
00:24:59
the show. So they're not reaching out enough to their
Speaker:
00:25:03
network of people. They're really kind of, not doing
Speaker:
00:25:06
as many episodes as they should. Right? Because in the end,
Speaker:
00:25:10
if I if I have and I release, like, two to three episodes a week.
Speaker:
00:25:14
Okay? And I have for probably a decade.
Speaker:
00:25:18
If I have a hundred to a 50 people on my show,
Speaker:
00:25:22
a hundred, you know, 50 relationships this year that I build further,
Speaker:
00:25:26
you know, not all of them are gonna become partners or we're
Speaker:
00:25:30
gonna form a deep relationship. Let's say 10% only do. Right? So we're
Speaker:
00:25:34
only talking, like, 10 people. Well, someone's like, well, I'm gonna
Speaker:
00:25:38
just do one a month, one episode a month. Well,
Speaker:
00:25:41
that's 12 people. Right? So how many
Speaker:
00:25:45
relationships are you building and furthering?
Speaker:
00:25:48
You know, there's just less of a chance. Right? Now they'll
Speaker:
00:25:52
they'll do the same in ten years that I will in one year.
Speaker:
00:25:56
Okay? And so for me, it's a it's
Speaker:
00:26:00
a it's a when. It's not an if situation. If they're
Speaker:
00:26:03
focused on the right people, if they have, you know, the
Speaker:
00:26:07
number of people that they're they're doing and then focused on the wrong
Speaker:
00:26:11
things. Like, you mentioned the the metrics. Right? If someone
Speaker:
00:26:14
I haven't looked at my metrics in I don't even
Speaker:
00:26:18
know how long, nine years or something. Like, I have no idea what the metrics
Speaker:
00:26:22
are but if someone's focused on the metrics, which is, in my opinion,
Speaker:
00:26:26
vanity metrics, which is like how many likes did I get, how
Speaker:
00:26:29
many views did I get. I'm looking at the relationship metrics like
Speaker:
00:26:33
how many amazing relationships have I formed this past year from the
Speaker:
00:26:37
podcast? So I think it's focusing on the wrong
Speaker:
00:26:41
metrics, which is like audience or downloads
Speaker:
00:26:45
or, you know, all of those things. And that's where I see people fail
Speaker:
00:26:49
because, like, it it's they're never gonna have and someone said this
Speaker:
00:26:53
I was listening to a podcast the other day. They said this perfectly. They go,
Speaker:
00:26:56
no matter what my metrics are, I'm not gonna be happy. This is what the
Speaker:
00:27:00
person said. They go, if I have a hundred listeners, I'm like, I want 200.
Speaker:
00:27:03
If I have 10,000 listeners, I want 15,000. If I want
Speaker:
00:27:06
20,000, you know, so those
Speaker:
00:27:10
aren't the metrics that I look at. And so if someone's
Speaker:
00:27:14
measuring their success on those metrics,
Speaker:
00:27:18
it's gonna be very hard to be satisfied with that.
Speaker:
00:27:21
Well, and we we know metrics can be gained too because there are people who
Speaker:
00:27:25
are popping into our LinkedIn inboxes and Facebook who are saying,
Speaker:
00:27:29
you know, I'll sell you 20,000 downloads. I'll say this. Nobody ever pops in your
Speaker:
00:27:32
inbox saying, I will sell you 10 genuine relationships with people in your
Speaker:
00:27:36
industry that are gonna make your life better. So, you know, that's, that's not a
Speaker:
00:27:40
real product. And, you know, going back to your point about getting these bigger names,
Speaker:
00:27:43
right, the Tony Robbins, everybody wants a Elon Musk or a Tim Cook on their
Speaker:
00:27:47
show, I agree with you. One, these big name
Speaker:
00:27:50
guests, they're not going to lead to long
Speaker:
00:27:54
term sustainable audience growth. One, because that person
Speaker:
00:27:58
probably isn't going to share it and, you
Speaker:
00:28:02
know, talk about it in a genuine way that would actually lead to that
Speaker:
00:28:06
kind of growth you're looking for. Maybe their publicist or their social seems like, oh,
Speaker:
00:28:09
yeah. We were on the show. Yay. But more importantly,
Speaker:
00:28:13
if if you get a Elon Musk on your show,
Speaker:
00:28:17
you're going to get a huge number of people who are fans of
Speaker:
00:28:20
Elon Musk. Right? They are going to track him from this podcast to
Speaker:
00:28:24
this podcast to this podcast, and maybe,
Speaker:
00:28:28
maybe you shave a few of those off to become regular listeners of
Speaker:
00:28:31
yours, but they didn't come to your show for you. They came for
Speaker:
00:28:35
him. And so I agree. Finding the
Speaker:
00:28:39
right guest, the right guest that provide the value to your audience
Speaker:
00:28:43
is way more important than finding the person with the most followers, the
Speaker:
00:28:47
biggest name. Right? All all those vanity metrics that at the end
Speaker:
00:28:51
of the day, that is just quantity and not quality for
Speaker:
00:28:54
both you and for your audience. I mean, there is a
Speaker:
00:28:59
so real quick. I just wanna piggyback on that, Matthew. I agree with
Speaker:
00:29:02
that. I think that there is a place for those
Speaker:
00:29:06
type of guests, like, a big authorities,
Speaker:
00:29:10
you know, but the place for me is like, I've had the cofounder of
Speaker:
00:29:13
Pixar and Atari and p ninety x and RXBAR and Quest
Speaker:
00:29:17
Nutrition. The point of those is it's like when
Speaker:
00:29:21
I'm reaching out, let's say I'm in the manufacturing space, if I reach out to
Speaker:
00:29:24
a president of a manufacturing company, it's more from a social proof
Speaker:
00:29:28
perspective. Right? I don't need dozens of
Speaker:
00:29:31
these. Right? I need a couple that are like, oh, damn. This
Speaker:
00:29:35
person's legit. Look at some of the guests he's had on, and
Speaker:
00:29:38
it legitimizes it in a sense. So I think there is a
Speaker:
00:29:42
place for those but not from, like, a gaining audience perspective, more from,
Speaker:
00:29:46
like, a building more relationship from that space perspective. True.
Speaker:
00:29:50
Yeah. Then, you know, again, also in a vanity perspective. Scarcity is available. There is
Speaker:
00:29:53
some vanity. There's a social proof. There's social proof. No doubt. Right.
Speaker:
00:29:57
Right. The big Tony Robbins Elon Musk will do more for your
Speaker:
00:30:01
ego, vanity, you know, your, your
Speaker:
00:30:05
marketing than it will for actual quality, audience growth, I I
Speaker:
00:30:08
would say, in the long term, in most cases. Some people will do it well,
Speaker:
00:30:11
most of us will not. As a reminder, we are chatting with Jeremy
Speaker:
00:30:15
Weiss, cofounder of RISE twenty five. You can learn more at
Speaker:
00:30:18
inspiredinsider.com. Jeremy, I have a feeling we could talk about this
Speaker:
00:30:22
for four days if, we have the time, but, you know, you have lots
Speaker:
00:30:26
of folks to meet and and, you know, build relationships with. I've got three
Speaker:
00:30:29
last questions I wanna ask before we let you go. The first is, you know,
Speaker:
00:30:32
since you have such a unique perspective on this space, I'm curious if there's any
Speaker:
00:30:36
place where you would like to see additional improvement in podcasting,
Speaker:
00:30:40
something that you're just like, god, I wish we as an industry did this better.
Speaker:
00:30:45
You know, I I think, you know, you were mentioning
Speaker:
00:30:48
this, subscribers download, those things
Speaker:
00:30:52
is kind of like a black box. Right? You can't there's no visibility
Speaker:
00:30:56
into that. Like, when you look at YouTube, right,
Speaker:
00:31:00
you can go and see how many views are worth. There's, like, complete visibility
Speaker:
00:31:04
there. Right? I find that I don't know if you get these
Speaker:
00:31:08
these messages go, I'm a top 1% podcast. I have x
Speaker:
00:31:11
number of down I can't prove or disprove any of those statements, what what
Speaker:
00:31:15
people say. I think the metrics
Speaker:
00:31:18
piece is, there's just not
Speaker:
00:31:22
that same visibility, from
Speaker:
00:31:26
that perspective. And and the thing is I don't even care about metrics in general
Speaker:
00:31:30
personally, but people I think I've seen
Speaker:
00:31:33
them like, I know from behind the
Speaker:
00:31:37
scenes, they aren't huge and they're telling people, like, how big
Speaker:
00:31:41
they are and how many downloads. So there isn't, like, a visibility
Speaker:
00:31:44
there. Yeah. It'd be nice if
Speaker:
00:31:48
if not only could it'd be nice to be able to
Speaker:
00:31:51
verify people's stats. Right? You go to YouTube, you see views, you see subscribers.
Speaker:
00:31:56
Podcast, it's if I share it, great. And also,
Speaker:
00:32:00
you have to trust the one I'm sharing is true because it
Speaker:
00:32:03
would not be beyond the reasonable doubt for people to lie about their podcast. That's
Speaker:
00:32:07
not what it is. Yeah. I've I've seen it.
Speaker:
00:32:11
Yeah. Is there any tech on your wish list?
Speaker:
00:32:15
Again, you're not a podcasting perfectionist, but,
Speaker:
00:32:19
you know, is there, is there a device or software that you're like, god, I
Speaker:
00:32:22
I've been waiting in my hands on this or maybe more importantly,
Speaker:
00:32:26
there was something that, you're like, man, I need somebody to make this to make
Speaker:
00:32:30
my life easier. You know, there could be
Speaker:
00:32:33
this, and I don't even know it. Matthew, so you'll you'll tell me if there
Speaker:
00:32:37
is. Because I know there are companies that do
Speaker:
00:32:41
this, but I just haven't really explored it that much.
Speaker:
00:32:46
I know that, like, I've talked to people and
Speaker:
00:32:51
sponsoring is kind of fragmented. Right? So, like,
Speaker:
00:32:55
if, there's only certain companies,
Speaker:
00:33:00
and I know there's a couple, I'm blanking on the name that actually
Speaker:
00:33:04
sold to a larger company, but,
Speaker:
00:33:07
something for, like, smaller shows that they can
Speaker:
00:33:11
get and do either exchange or pay to,
Speaker:
00:33:15
you know, sponsor on each other's podcasts.
Speaker:
00:33:19
I know there's some companies out there, but I don't know. Usually,
Speaker:
00:33:23
what I've seen is they're just larger companies that are on there that
Speaker:
00:33:27
will sponsor, and they're not so much focused
Speaker:
00:33:31
on the quality. They're it's more just based on the numbers. Like, oh, we're paying
Speaker:
00:33:34
x number of 10,000 downloads or something like
Speaker:
00:33:37
that. So Yeah. That that stuff does exist out there. I I
Speaker:
00:33:41
can't remember the name of them right now, but there have been a few of
Speaker:
00:33:44
those. Some of them have been acquired and, you know,
Speaker:
00:33:47
changed. And some of them, I think they wanna do exactly what you say,
Speaker:
00:33:51
but they run into the problem that we just talked about, which is, oh, you
Speaker:
00:33:55
know, I wanna promote my show with this other person. This person claims they get
Speaker:
00:33:58
15,000 downloads, but, you know,
Speaker:
00:34:02
when push came to shove, they were getting 20. Right? So it it
Speaker:
00:34:06
it there was trust issues there, but I I agree that would be nice to
Speaker:
00:34:09
have a a good platform like that. Lastly, are there any podcasts on
Speaker:
00:34:13
your playlist that you have to listen to? Any that,
Speaker:
00:34:17
you know, you just you won't let an episode of the show go by,
Speaker:
00:34:21
or if you a new episode comes out, you're stopping what you're doing and listening
Speaker:
00:34:24
to that instead? It's funny.
Speaker:
00:34:28
I listen to everything on YouTube. So and, usually,
Speaker:
00:34:32
I'm listening to it because I'm researching guests. Right? And
Speaker:
00:34:35
so I'm listening to a lot of different types of podcasts. So I do
Speaker:
00:34:39
I have listened to, Jason Swank's podcast. He
Speaker:
00:34:43
specializes in digital agencies. I may have
Speaker:
00:34:47
listened to, I'll admit it to you. I don't know if I'll admit it to
Speaker:
00:34:50
him. His head will get big. But maybe, like, 350 or so
Speaker:
00:34:54
episodes of his show. He's been doing it for a long time. I listen
Speaker:
00:34:57
to John Corcoran's show, Smart Business Revolution. I
Speaker:
00:35:01
listen to Jordan Harbinger's show. He's got a lot of really
Speaker:
00:35:05
interesting guests. He does a lot of research, as well for
Speaker:
00:35:08
his show, and just whatever
Speaker:
00:35:12
else, when I'm researching, I'll stumble across
Speaker:
00:35:16
other specific niche. So I'm looking more for like, at the guest
Speaker:
00:35:19
than the show. So if I'm like, okay. I'm researching top
Speaker:
00:35:23
people in, you know, agency space, I'll I'll
Speaker:
00:35:27
research that and, listen to a couple episodes.
Speaker:
00:35:31
Right. Very good. Well, once again, we have been
Speaker:
00:35:35
chatting with Jeremy Weiss. He's the cofounder of Rise twenty
Speaker:
00:35:39
five Media. You can learn more about them at
Speaker:
00:35:41
inspiredinsider.com. And,
Speaker:
00:35:44
yes, if you're someone out there who is thinking about how do I really use
Speaker:
00:35:48
podcasting to grow my influence,
Speaker:
00:35:52
grow my network, grow just me as a person, and then see
Speaker:
00:35:55
where that can lead you. I I cannot stress that
Speaker:
00:35:59
Jeremy's, firm is a great place to start with that with that question.
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00:36:03
So, Jeremy, good to see you. Thank you for joining me. Thanks for
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having me. Thanks for joining us today on Podcasting Tech.
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00:36:11
There are links to all the hardware and software that help power our guest
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content and
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tech.com.
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You can also subscribe to the show on your favorite platform, connect with us on
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social media, and even leave a rating and review while you're there. Thanks, and
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we'll see you next time on Podcasting Tech.
00:00:06
Welcome to Podcasting Tech, a podcast that equips busy
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00:00:09
entrepreneurs engaged in podcasting with proven and cost effective
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00:00:13
solutions for achieving a professional sound and appearance. I'm
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00:00:17
Matthew Passi, your host and a fifteen year veteran in the podcasting
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00:00:20
space. We'll help you cut through the noise and offer guidance on software and
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00:00:24
hardware that can elevate the quality of your show. Tune in weekly
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for insightful interviews with tech creators, behind the scenes studio tours, and
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00:00:31
strategies for podcasting success. Head to
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podcastingtech.com to subscribe to this show on YouTube or your favorite
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00:00:38
podcast platform, and join us on this exciting journey to unlock the full
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00:00:41
potential of your podcast. Not
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everybody uses a podcast the exact same way. In fact, when you ask
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folks, how do you measure success of a podcast? You know, ask 10
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people, get 11 different answers. And our guest
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today was one of the first people who I who I know really
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took one of those more unique strategies and turned it into
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a, you know, full grown podcasting business and strategy for
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clients and one that I've seen done on a smaller scale, but not to their
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level and excited to get into it today. We are chatting with Jeremy
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Weiss. He's the cofounder of RISE twenty five Media. You can learn more about
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them at inspireinsider.com. Jeremy, it is great to see you and
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chat with you today. Matthew, thanks for having me. Great to see you.
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And even though he doesn't want me to say this, he is actually doctor Jeremy
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Weiss. He was a he is a chiropractor, was a chiropractor.
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So the question becomes, how do you go from doctor Jeremy Weiss to, you know,
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running a successful podcasting company, RISE
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twenty five? So, you know, it's
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funny. In chiropractic school, ever since I was little, my
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dad suffered with neck pain, and the only thing that helped helped him over
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time, even though he went to lots of doctors, was a chiropractor. So I decided
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early on, you know, I'm really into natural health.
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I, you know, I decided to do that as a profession.
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Going through chiropractic school, they don't teach you anything in business. Like, I think a
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lot of medical professions or if you're in law, whatever, it
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is professional school. They're not talking about business. Right? So when I got out of
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school, I knew how to be a chiropractor. I didn't really
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know how to run a business. So I was going to these marketing and,
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at that time, we're talking about, like,
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02/1967, these marketing conferences and
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some of them were Internet marketing conferences. You know, this thing
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called the lab and how you market online, and I
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stumbled across some early on people doing
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podcasting. Right? And I I don't even know at the time if we called
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it podcasting. I think it was called, like, online interviews or something.
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And it, like, was the perfect mix of my personality
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of curiosity, professional development,
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forming amazing relationships, and content. And so I
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started, podcasting at the time and and,
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you know, what happened was and this was not about the health profession. What
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happened was people started coming to me at that time asking me to help
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them, launch and run their podcast. Right? And so I'm
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like, sure. At that point, I built up a small
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team because, obviously, I was running a chiropractic practice full time. I couldn't do
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all the things, that I needed to do. And so I
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started helping people from the strategy,
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piece and and then all the back end related
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execution stuff. And so by accident, that turned into a separate
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business. Actually, I met my business partner,
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and you could probably appreciate this, Matthew. The, I tell
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people everything, almost everything good in my life tracks back to a
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podcast. Okay? Like, I did not meet my wife on a podcast, of course.
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Jordan Harbinger actually he's he runs Jordan Jordan Harbinger
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show. I think that he gets upwards of $10,000,000 a month. Did
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actually meet his wife through the podcast his podcast.
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And I think he told the story on my podcast at some point. But
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I did not meet my wife, but I did meet my business partner,
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through podcasting because he, John Corcoran, was early on the podcasting
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too. And I've met some best friends. I've
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gone to people's weddings. I've gone on family vacations with people I've met through the
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podcast. So that's kind of how it started, and,
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it took it took on a life of its own. Eventually, I
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exited the chiropractic business and focused full time on RISE
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twenty five, helping businesses with podcasts.
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Excellent. I I love the the idea of all the good things that have happened
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happened, you know, through someone you met on a podcast. That's how we met. Right?
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I mean, that's really how we met. We met through a podcast client. Right? Very
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famously, there's a gentleman, Dave Jackson, the podcasting space who, you
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know, he would say because my podcast, and He would have people tell stories of,
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you know, amazing and great things that have happened to them because of because they
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had a podcast, and so I always love hearing about that.
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So RISE 25, you know, as we were getting ready to hit record and I
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was telling you, right, we added this and we can clean this up and all
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that stuff, and you said, whatever, you know, whatever we say, just let it out
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there, you know, the the least amount of work possible. And it's
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because your approach to podcasting, your approach to
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how businesses, how professionals can get the most out of podcasting,
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differs greatly from what is the mainstream focus.
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Right? For most podcasting, the mainstream focus is
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largest audience possible, whether that's to monetize that
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audience or whether it's to sell products to that audience, build
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your, you know, huge, audience space so you can do other things with
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them. And and we've talked about it on this show too plenty of times, and
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I've done it personally, but not all podcasters care about the audience.
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Sometimes the the real focus is really the other person on the microphone.
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So tell me a little bit about your approach to podcasting and
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how your clients and how you've seen that return on investment
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through this medium. Yeah. That's a great question.
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And, sometimes, Matthew, I don't even realize that not
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everyone thinks like this. I'm like, okay. This is normal. But
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the the first part of what you said, I believe, you know, the medium of
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podcasting is amazing because it's really an authentic conversation.
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And so that's why I was like, just keep it in. Like,
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I like I think when people have
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blemishes, they're vulnerable, or they say things that like, I've
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mispronounced my name on my podcast before. Like, how is that possible? Well, I just
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leave it all in because who cares? It's fine.
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Right? People make mistakes, and it's fine to leave it
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all in there. So I believe because, you know, some of our clients
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also, they they have they got to where they are because they have a perfectionist
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sometimes mentality and they want everything perfect. And
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and I'm similar. Right? But I've just learned
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to let it flow. It's it's fine. This medium is
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an authentic conversation. And then, yeah, what you said about the
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largest audience, we do have to and when I'm
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talking, I'm really talking from a b to b podcasting standpoint.
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Right? So, like, if someone has, like, a comedy podcast or a
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true crime podcast, they really do, a lot of times, need
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audience, to, you
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know, to kind of push their initiatives forward. But when
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I'm talking about, like, a b to b business and they
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probably have a larger client lifetime value, for
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me, the relationships are key. It's not about the audience. It's
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not about the quantity. It's about the quality. Right? So, like,
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if we're working with, you know, a b to b SaaS company
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that specializes in ecommerce, for instance. Right? As an example,
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if they get in front of a million people, yeah, they could probably sell ads
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or if they get in front of, like, 10,000 people or something. But for
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them, if they sell a software software and the average client
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lifetime value for them is $10.20, $30.40,
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$50,000, you know, they really just wanna get
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in front of the niche of ecommerce people. Right? So
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the audience, it's more of a quality than the
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quantity piece. And so you said it, you know,
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what we really talk about and think about is
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our relationships. And for me, the number one thing in
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my life is a way looking at ways how I can give to my best
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relationships. And you're the same. Right? I've found no better
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way to profile the people and companies I admire and
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share with the world what they're working on on my podcast, and I could form
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a deeper relationship. Like, after this, like, we've known each other, but we will have
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a deeper relationship after the show. We get to
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chitchat and talk, you know, for however long.
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Right? And so it's about relationships, and so that's the way I think about
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it. And, you know, we talk about kinda our five
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steps to profit with a podcast, and I'm talking about b to b podcast.
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And the first step of that, process is
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really to create a dream two hundred. You know? And some people think of
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dream two hundred as, like, clients.
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We kind of think of it as, yeah, it could be clients, potential
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clients. It could also be strategic and referral partners. It could
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be big authorities in a specific space, arena. Like, if
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someone's in ecommerce or someone's in, you know, focus on dentists or
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someone focus on whatever genre they focus in on. And so
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that's kind of what we think about is all those amazing
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relationships in that specific niche that would be
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valuable to connect with, not only from, you know,
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obviously, you confer business back and forth, maybe, someone becomes
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a client, but also from a professional development standpoint. I've learned a lot
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in different industries that I've taken into my industry,
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from the podcast as well. So you
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say a a dream 200, and that doesn't always have to
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be your your target customers
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or your target clients. I I I don't know if I could come
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up with a dream 200. Like, where where does that list come from for a
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lot of people? Who you know, is it am I actually giving you specific
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names? Bob Smith, you know, Al Jensen,
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Jane Doe. Totally. Well, we we'll you know, the first
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stage when we work with someone is we help them develop that dream
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200, but I'll give you a few examples. Right? Now there's warm
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and there's cold. So I'll kinda separate them out. Right? So you have a lot
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of warm relationships over the past decade
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that, would fall into this category. Right? So we wanna
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explore those first, which is warm. But when we think of
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cold, I'll give you some examples. Right? There's some common
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trends that we see from, like, thinking of Dream 200 cold
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relationships. Right? So we think of who are,
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consultants consultants or practice management groups in your industry.
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Who are some trade associations, conferences,
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software people are using. Like, an example, like so I'll just say from the
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chiropractic niche. Let's say there was a digital agency
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and they focused on service professionals. And I know digital agencies
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that literally only focus on dentists or only focus on
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chiropractors. Right? Let's take the chiropractor niche. Well, there's,
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you know, a lot of practice management groups in the chiropractic
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industry, and these and I know because I've been a part of them. These practice
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management groups, people are paying a thousand a
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month. You know, they've been maybe paying 10,000 a year,
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20,000, 30 thousand. Right? They take their business seriously.
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Right? So if I could actually,
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you know, form relationships with some of these people who run these practice management
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groups, they have control of these
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reservoir of chiropractors. Right? And they I've, you
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know, I've seen people they could speak on stage at one of the conferences. They
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could do a webinar for them. There's all their ways they can collaborate. Right? So,
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we look at those categories to think of and brainstorm
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because most people in math here are like you. You're like, I don't know if
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I have I guarantee you, like, when I'm talking to someone, like, I don't someone
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has come to me, like, we only have we don't they were in oil and
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gas. We only have we know we only have
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232 potential clients in the space.
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Okay? Like, there's nothing else beyond that. And I'm like,
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okay. I'll play with you. I'll play along. Let's do
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this. Right? But once we got done with the process, we're like, okay.
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There's a lot more people in the space than maybe
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potential clients too. Right? So there's consultants in the
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oil and gas that don't do what this company does, you know,
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that has lots of clients in the space. So there's those are the categories
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we think about to kinda brainstorm under, to
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get that list of people, you know, in the in the
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industry or kind of the prefer. And so I
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imagine, right, you make this list of 200 people and the idea is to then
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see if these folks will come on, you know, be a guest on the podcast.
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But I'm guessing that being a guest on the podcast is
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like the smallest part of the puzzle.
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Right? Like, what is it actually what's actually gonna happen
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if I make this list of 200 and say the first ten people, you
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know, say yes? Like, where does it go from, great. You've been on the podcast.
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Now what? Yeah. So yeah. So the first step,
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obviously, create that dream 200. The second step is the
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outreach. People fail with the outreach. Right? Like, you said,
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okay. They come on. Some people are caught up in, well, I don't
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even know how to reach out. I don't know what to say. Right? So the
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outreach piece is the next piece typically, and
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it has to be a nicely copywritten message, right, with social proof and
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other elements. So let's assume, like you said, they say yes. Alright. They
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come on. Now it's, we get
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into the questions typically, and you get this question a lot, I'm sure, too, which
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is, okay. How do I produce amazing content? What's, like, the
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technology setup? They get caught up in the technology setup. Right?
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And, so they're comfortable once a person comes
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on and, like, you're using Riverside. I, you
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know, I use Zoom simply back whenever
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I started over fifteen years ago, there was no Zoom or Riverside. So
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I think I was using Skype video at the time and coaching people on how
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to set up on their computer. But there's a lot of options. Right? There's StreamYard.
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There's Riverside. There's Zoom. I I honestly don't care what people use
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as long as they're comfortable with it and it's an easy experience for the for
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the guest. And then obviously a mic setup. Right? I'm
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using a a Yeti, Blue Yeti. What do you use? That looks like a nice
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mic. Is that a Rode? What is that? No. It's an Electrovoice RE 20.
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Okay. It's a old mic I got from my old Wall Street Journal
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radio. It looks nice. You know, you could get one.
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You know, I think I have an ATR 2,100 over there. It's like a hundred
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bucks you can get get one. So once you have someone on, you're comfortable with
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the setup, it's professional. You know, really, for me,
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it's having a great conversation, and being
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curious. Right? So the content piece and what's in the content,
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and how the interview goes is is paramount because you want the person
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leaving being like, you know, that Matthew's awesome. That was fun.
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That was fun to talk to, ask good questions. And so,
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it's the content piece, right, which is, you know,
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just being curious. I tell people I kinda again, they're they have
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a they're all in their own head around this stuff, which is, oh my god.
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I'm interviewing someone. Like, you know, you and I are used to this, and we
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just have conversations. But some people aren't. They just show up and they're nervous. I
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had a really successful lady who grew,
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you know, her business to, like, 60 locations. And, you
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know, I was shocked of, you know, that she was a little
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00:16:04
nervous for the interview part. Right? And so just making him feel comfortable
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in in having that conversation. Right? Now afterwards,
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like, the way I think of it broadly is how do I give
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as much as humanly possible for this person? Right?
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Because it's not about it's this is gonna sound weird, Matthew. Okay?
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I don't have someone on my show to get a
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client. I don't have show someone on my show to get a partner.
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Okay? What I do have someone on my show is my goal is to actually
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get them a client or to get them a partner, introduce them.
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Now if it's someone like we are talking, we help a lot of people in
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the b to b SaaS business, a lot of people in in in agency
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space, in manufacturing, in b two b, you know, type of
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space. I know if they're, you know, in the market or they
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know someone and if I have a SaaS founder on, it's more to make an
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introduction to them who could be a maybe a client or a partner.
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00:17:00
And that's my goal. Right? Because I'm just trying to give to them. I profile
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them. Obviously, the episode comes out. And so, like, I'm looking
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for those touch points of how I can give to that individual and further the
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00:17:11
relationship. Right? Because it's not, for me, it's not transactional.
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I'm not there. Obviously, if we do business together, awesome.
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But, my main goal is to just have those touch
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points and those gives. And the for me, one of the biggest touch points is
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00:17:26
obviously we we record the episode, then we push it out, as
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00:17:30
a separate blog post. Then we'll do a snippet of it, push it out on
Speaker:
00:17:34
social. And we may do multiple snippets of it and push it out over social
Speaker:
00:17:38
over a month, six months, a year. Then I'm looking at who I can
Speaker:
00:17:41
introduce them to. Right? And so those touch points, and then if
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00:17:45
I'm in the area, like we talked about, I said, Matthew, if you're in Chicago,
Speaker:
00:17:49
let me know. You know, like, if we're in the same city, I tell them
Speaker:
00:17:52
and people do come through Chicago. So they're they'll contact me, like,
Speaker:
00:17:56
hey. I'm here, and we'll maybe go to dinner or I'll get a group of
Speaker:
00:17:59
entrepreneurs and go to dinner. I was just in Miami,
Speaker:
00:18:03
for, an event, and I put together 50
Speaker:
00:18:07
entrepreneurs, and we did a networking at a brewery.
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00:18:10
And these like, there was a bunch who were past podcast guests who I just
Speaker:
00:18:14
reached out to and we actually touched you know, we're able to get that touch
Speaker:
00:18:18
point in person and meet in person. So it goes beyond the like,
Speaker:
00:18:21
you're saying, what do you do? Now, obviously, I make it
Speaker:
00:18:25
known. They know what I do. Like, I don't need to, like, shove it in
Speaker:
00:18:28
their face. You know? So they know what I do at that point,
Speaker:
00:18:31
and it I kinda let it naturally flow. Not everyone's like that, but
Speaker:
00:18:35
I that's just my my philosophy. It so you
Speaker:
00:18:39
really are playing a long game. And and I don't mean to use game
Speaker:
00:18:43
like this isn't a joke. Right? This is you you're not being inauthentic
Speaker:
00:18:47
when you do these things, but, you know, that that's the language that we use
Speaker:
00:18:50
to describe this. So this isn't about a short term return. Right?
Speaker:
00:18:54
I'm not hiring RISE twenty five because I need to, you know, increase sales
Speaker:
00:18:58
by 200,000 percent over the next twelve weeks, and, you
Speaker:
00:19:01
guys are promising me that. This is how to
Speaker:
00:19:05
grow and expand your network and community,
Speaker:
00:19:09
which will eventually lead to more success and more
Speaker:
00:19:13
opportunities down the road. That's totally fair to say.
Speaker:
00:19:16
Yeah. So I'm curious then. So
Speaker:
00:19:20
you've been doing this for quite some time now. Right? This isn't
Speaker:
00:19:24
a a new thing for you. You've seen changes in podcasting.
Speaker:
00:19:28
Has any of the changes in podcasting really changed your approach
Speaker:
00:19:31
or your strategy, or or is it fairly constant
Speaker:
00:19:35
because it's less about the technical
Speaker:
00:19:38
nature of podcasting and more just about this is a
Speaker:
00:19:42
great way to network and grow and
Speaker:
00:19:46
meet people? Yeah. A %. Yeah. It it it, it's a
Speaker:
00:19:50
good question. I can't say it has changed
Speaker:
00:19:54
anything. I think it it, for
Speaker:
00:19:57
for in in some respects, it's actually accelerated that thought process. You
Speaker:
00:20:01
know? I remember, you know, what during COVID, people couldn't meet
Speaker:
00:20:05
in person, and they were trying to find ways, which I
Speaker:
00:20:09
think, you know, to you and me, it seemed pretty obvious. Like
Speaker:
00:20:13
but people not everyone was using Zoom. Not everyone
Speaker:
00:20:16
was using virtual meetings as frequently, as I
Speaker:
00:20:20
was or you were. And so it some for some people, it's a
Speaker:
00:20:24
novel concept. Like, they depended on networking groups in
Speaker:
00:20:27
person. They depended on events in person, and they needed to find a
Speaker:
00:20:31
way to really connect with people outside of that. So I
Speaker:
00:20:35
think what I found, that COVID really
Speaker:
00:20:38
accelerated that process and people were open and
Speaker:
00:20:42
using those mediums, the the virtual mediums
Speaker:
00:20:45
to actually connect. And we got a flood of people like, okay. I can't
Speaker:
00:20:49
do all the stuff I was normally doing in person. What do I do?
Speaker:
00:20:53
And so it was just the same stuff that we
Speaker:
00:20:56
were, doing ourselves and and helping
Speaker:
00:21:00
our clients do as well. Have you ever seen
Speaker:
00:21:04
this not work? And if
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00:21:08
so, what was it that
Speaker:
00:21:11
was not that I'm questioning the strategy, but maybe
Speaker:
00:21:15
the the the person who was executing it. Right? Like, you guys have a game
Speaker:
00:21:18
plan. You've seen it work. You've you've got the case studies. Right? You've got the
Speaker:
00:21:22
proof. But I'm sure somebody came along, was like, I wanna do this. It didn't
Speaker:
00:21:25
work. And, you know, I'm sure they've tried to blame you, but you're like, here's
Speaker:
00:21:28
what really happened. Have you seen it? Oh, that's funny.
Speaker:
00:21:33
No. No one ever blames no. Of course. Yeah.
Speaker:
00:21:39
The way I think of it, Matthew, is that it's an if,
Speaker:
00:21:43
it's a it's a when, not if. Okay? So,
Speaker:
00:21:47
what I mean by that is,
Speaker:
00:21:51
one, you know, when does it not work? Well,
Speaker:
00:21:55
you're you're you're gonna hear my opinion here. When when someone's not as
Speaker:
00:21:58
coachable, it doesn't work. When they there are certain elements that we want
Speaker:
00:22:02
them to do, within the interview, before the
Speaker:
00:22:06
interview, and the reach out. And so
Speaker:
00:22:10
the when it doesn't work is they're not
Speaker:
00:22:13
reaching out to the right people. One. Okay. So we're talking about the
Speaker:
00:22:17
dream 200. People get,
Speaker:
00:22:21
there's there's a little bit I I don't know if ego is too strong a
Speaker:
00:22:24
word. I don't mean it in a negative sense, but, like, people are going after,
Speaker:
00:22:28
like, big names, okay, in whatever
Speaker:
00:22:32
industry or in all industries. Right? And they're focused on big
Speaker:
00:22:36
names. What I have found with big names
Speaker:
00:22:40
is what happens, they
Speaker:
00:22:45
usually, people are like, oh, they have a big audience or big name. I find
Speaker:
00:22:49
that the smaller the the guests who have smaller followings who aren't
Speaker:
00:22:52
as big, quote, unquote, whatever big means, actually promote the
Speaker:
00:22:56
episode more, get more views. And you're I see you nodding
Speaker:
00:23:00
here because you you you can relate to this. When people just go after big
Speaker:
00:23:04
name after big name after big name, they think it's going
Speaker:
00:23:07
to result in all this audience and all these downloads,
Speaker:
00:23:11
and that person's probably been on 30 other shows. Right? And
Speaker:
00:23:15
they're probably not they're just busy. They're not gonna take the time to promote the
Speaker:
00:23:19
episode like someone else would. So I see people
Speaker:
00:23:22
going after and that that is one category. Like, when I think
Speaker:
00:23:26
of five types of categories of types of guests or types of
Speaker:
00:23:29
episodes, that is a a an important one to have
Speaker:
00:23:33
authorities, big authorities. But they don't have to be like, a
Speaker:
00:23:37
household name. They could just be a specific niche.
Speaker:
00:23:40
Okay? I remember someone mentioned,
Speaker:
00:23:45
the godfather of HR, Matthew, okay, on the on my
Speaker:
00:23:48
podcast. Okay? And I was like, oh, who's the godfather of HR?
Speaker:
00:23:52
Right? I've never heard of this person. And the thing is, in the HR
Speaker:
00:23:56
community, people have heard of the person. But outside of it,
Speaker:
00:24:00
they didn't. So it was interesting because,
Speaker:
00:24:05
you know, having that person on was a big authority in certain
Speaker:
00:24:08
spaces, but, you know, the thing is,
Speaker:
00:24:13
they weren't like this huge name. I don't even know.
Speaker:
00:24:17
Well, you know, to give an example, I don't know if
Speaker:
00:24:20
someone is like Tony Robbins or something. Right? And, like, you know, Tony
Speaker:
00:24:24
Robbins would be an amazing guest to have. I I love his stuff.
Speaker:
00:24:27
I'm sure he I don't know if he's really gonna promote the episode afterwards because
Speaker:
00:24:31
he's so busy. But, I had, Dave Ulrich
Speaker:
00:24:34
on. Right? Who is someone called him
Speaker:
00:24:38
the the godfather of HR. He had on he was
Speaker:
00:24:42
super nice. So focusing on the wrong types of guests
Speaker:
00:24:46
too much, I think, is a mistake I see people make.
Speaker:
00:24:51
I see people, you know, kinda being a perfectionist.
Speaker:
00:24:55
So they need to have everything perfect, for
Speaker:
00:24:59
the show. So they're not reaching out enough to their
Speaker:
00:25:03
network of people. They're really kind of, not doing
Speaker:
00:25:06
as many episodes as they should. Right? Because in the end,
Speaker:
00:25:10
if I if I have and I release, like, two to three episodes a week.
Speaker:
00:25:14
Okay? And I have for probably a decade.
Speaker:
00:25:18
If I have a hundred to a 50 people on my show,
Speaker:
00:25:22
a hundred, you know, 50 relationships this year that I build further,
Speaker:
00:25:26
you know, not all of them are gonna become partners or we're
Speaker:
00:25:30
gonna form a deep relationship. Let's say 10% only do. Right? So we're
Speaker:
00:25:34
only talking, like, 10 people. Well, someone's like, well, I'm gonna
Speaker:
00:25:38
just do one a month, one episode a month. Well,
Speaker:
00:25:41
that's 12 people. Right? So how many
Speaker:
00:25:45
relationships are you building and furthering?
Speaker:
00:25:48
You know, there's just less of a chance. Right? Now they'll
Speaker:
00:25:52
they'll do the same in ten years that I will in one year.
Speaker:
00:25:56
Okay? And so for me, it's a it's
Speaker:
00:26:00
a it's a when. It's not an if situation. If they're
Speaker:
00:26:03
focused on the right people, if they have, you know, the
Speaker:
00:26:07
number of people that they're they're doing and then focused on the wrong
Speaker:
00:26:11
things. Like, you mentioned the the metrics. Right? If someone
Speaker:
00:26:14
I haven't looked at my metrics in I don't even
Speaker:
00:26:18
know how long, nine years or something. Like, I have no idea what the metrics
Speaker:
00:26:22
are but if someone's focused on the metrics, which is, in my opinion,
Speaker:
00:26:26
vanity metrics, which is like how many likes did I get, how
Speaker:
00:26:29
many views did I get. I'm looking at the relationship metrics like
Speaker:
00:26:33
how many amazing relationships have I formed this past year from the
Speaker:
00:26:37
podcast? So I think it's focusing on the wrong
Speaker:
00:26:41
metrics, which is like audience or downloads
Speaker:
00:26:45
or, you know, all of those things. And that's where I see people fail
Speaker:
00:26:49
because, like, it it's they're never gonna have and someone said this
Speaker:
00:26:53
I was listening to a podcast the other day. They said this perfectly. They go,
Speaker:
00:26:56
no matter what my metrics are, I'm not gonna be happy. This is what the
Speaker:
00:27:00
person said. They go, if I have a hundred listeners, I'm like, I want 200.
Speaker:
00:27:03
If I have 10,000 listeners, I want 15,000. If I want
Speaker:
00:27:06
20,000, you know, so those
Speaker:
00:27:10
aren't the metrics that I look at. And so if someone's
Speaker:
00:27:14
measuring their success on those metrics,
Speaker:
00:27:18
it's gonna be very hard to be satisfied with that.
Speaker:
00:27:21
Well, and we we know metrics can be gained too because there are people who
Speaker:
00:27:25
are popping into our LinkedIn inboxes and Facebook who are saying,
Speaker:
00:27:29
you know, I'll sell you 20,000 downloads. I'll say this. Nobody ever pops in your
Speaker:
00:27:32
inbox saying, I will sell you 10 genuine relationships with people in your
Speaker:
00:27:36
industry that are gonna make your life better. So, you know, that's, that's not a
Speaker:
00:27:40
real product. And, you know, going back to your point about getting these bigger names,
Speaker:
00:27:43
right, the Tony Robbins, everybody wants a Elon Musk or a Tim Cook on their
Speaker:
00:27:47
show, I agree with you. One, these big name
Speaker:
00:27:50
guests, they're not going to lead to long
Speaker:
00:27:54
term sustainable audience growth. One, because that person
Speaker:
00:27:58
probably isn't going to share it and, you
Speaker:
00:28:02
know, talk about it in a genuine way that would actually lead to that
Speaker:
00:28:06
kind of growth you're looking for. Maybe their publicist or their social seems like, oh,
Speaker:
00:28:09
yeah. We were on the show. Yay. But more importantly,
Speaker:
00:28:13
if if you get a Elon Musk on your show,
Speaker:
00:28:17
you're going to get a huge number of people who are fans of
Speaker:
00:28:20
Elon Musk. Right? They are going to track him from this podcast to
Speaker:
00:28:24
this podcast to this podcast, and maybe,
Speaker:
00:28:28
maybe you shave a few of those off to become regular listeners of
Speaker:
00:28:31
yours, but they didn't come to your show for you. They came for
Speaker:
00:28:35
him. And so I agree. Finding the
Speaker:
00:28:39
right guest, the right guest that provide the value to your audience
Speaker:
00:28:43
is way more important than finding the person with the most followers, the
Speaker:
00:28:47
biggest name. Right? All all those vanity metrics that at the end
Speaker:
00:28:51
of the day, that is just quantity and not quality for
Speaker:
00:28:54
both you and for your audience. I mean, there is a
Speaker:
00:28:59
so real quick. I just wanna piggyback on that, Matthew. I agree with
Speaker:
00:29:02
that. I think that there is a place for those
Speaker:
00:29:06
type of guests, like, a big authorities,
Speaker:
00:29:10
you know, but the place for me is like, I've had the cofounder of
Speaker:
00:29:13
Pixar and Atari and p ninety x and RXBAR and Quest
Speaker:
00:29:17
Nutrition. The point of those is it's like when
Speaker:
00:29:21
I'm reaching out, let's say I'm in the manufacturing space, if I reach out to
Speaker:
00:29:24
a president of a manufacturing company, it's more from a social proof
Speaker:
00:29:28
perspective. Right? I don't need dozens of
Speaker:
00:29:31
these. Right? I need a couple that are like, oh, damn. This
Speaker:
00:29:35
person's legit. Look at some of the guests he's had on, and
Speaker:
00:29:38
it legitimizes it in a sense. So I think there is a
Speaker:
00:29:42
place for those but not from, like, a gaining audience perspective, more from,
Speaker:
00:29:46
like, a building more relationship from that space perspective. True.
Speaker:
00:29:50
Yeah. Then, you know, again, also in a vanity perspective. Scarcity is available. There is
Speaker:
00:29:53
some vanity. There's a social proof. There's social proof. No doubt. Right.
Speaker:
00:29:57
Right. The big Tony Robbins Elon Musk will do more for your
Speaker:
00:30:01
ego, vanity, you know, your, your
Speaker:
00:30:05
marketing than it will for actual quality, audience growth, I I
Speaker:
00:30:08
would say, in the long term, in most cases. Some people will do it well,
Speaker:
00:30:11
most of us will not. As a reminder, we are chatting with Jeremy
Speaker:
00:30:15
Weiss, cofounder of RISE twenty five. You can learn more at
Speaker:
00:30:18
inspiredinsider.com. Jeremy, I have a feeling we could talk about this
Speaker:
00:30:22
for four days if, we have the time, but, you know, you have lots
Speaker:
00:30:26
of folks to meet and and, you know, build relationships with. I've got three
Speaker:
00:30:29
last questions I wanna ask before we let you go. The first is, you know,
Speaker:
00:30:32
since you have such a unique perspective on this space, I'm curious if there's any
Speaker:
00:30:36
place where you would like to see additional improvement in podcasting,
Speaker:
00:30:40
something that you're just like, god, I wish we as an industry did this better.
Speaker:
00:30:45
You know, I I think, you know, you were mentioning
Speaker:
00:30:48
this, subscribers download, those things
Speaker:
00:30:52
is kind of like a black box. Right? You can't there's no visibility
Speaker:
00:30:56
into that. Like, when you look at YouTube, right,
Speaker:
00:31:00
you can go and see how many views are worth. There's, like, complete visibility
Speaker:
00:31:04
there. Right? I find that I don't know if you get these
Speaker:
00:31:08
these messages go, I'm a top 1% podcast. I have x
Speaker:
00:31:11
number of down I can't prove or disprove any of those statements, what what
Speaker:
00:31:15
people say. I think the metrics
Speaker:
00:31:18
piece is, there's just not
Speaker:
00:31:22
that same visibility, from
Speaker:
00:31:26
that perspective. And and the thing is I don't even care about metrics in general
Speaker:
00:31:30
personally, but people I think I've seen
Speaker:
00:31:33
them like, I know from behind the
Speaker:
00:31:37
scenes, they aren't huge and they're telling people, like, how big
Speaker:
00:31:41
they are and how many downloads. So there isn't, like, a visibility
Speaker:
00:31:44
there. Yeah. It'd be nice if
Speaker:
00:31:48
if not only could it'd be nice to be able to
Speaker:
00:31:51
verify people's stats. Right? You go to YouTube, you see views, you see subscribers.
Speaker:
00:31:56
Podcast, it's if I share it, great. And also,
Speaker:
00:32:00
you have to trust the one I'm sharing is true because it
Speaker:
00:32:03
would not be beyond the reasonable doubt for people to lie about their podcast. That's
Speaker:
00:32:07
not what it is. Yeah. I've I've seen it.
Speaker:
00:32:11
Yeah. Is there any tech on your wish list?
Speaker:
00:32:15
Again, you're not a podcasting perfectionist, but,
Speaker:
00:32:19
you know, is there, is there a device or software that you're like, god, I
Speaker:
00:32:22
I've been waiting in my hands on this or maybe more importantly,
Speaker:
00:32:26
there was something that, you're like, man, I need somebody to make this to make
Speaker:
00:32:30
my life easier. You know, there could be
Speaker:
00:32:33
this, and I don't even know it. Matthew, so you'll you'll tell me if there
Speaker:
00:32:37
is. Because I know there are companies that do
Speaker:
00:32:41
this, but I just haven't really explored it that much.
Speaker:
00:32:46
I know that, like, I've talked to people and
Speaker:
00:32:51
sponsoring is kind of fragmented. Right? So, like,
Speaker:
00:32:55
if, there's only certain companies,
Speaker:
00:33:00
and I know there's a couple, I'm blanking on the name that actually
Speaker:
00:33:04
sold to a larger company, but,
Speaker:
00:33:07
something for, like, smaller shows that they can
Speaker:
00:33:11
get and do either exchange or pay to,
Speaker:
00:33:15
you know, sponsor on each other's podcasts.
Speaker:
00:33:19
I know there's some companies out there, but I don't know. Usually,
Speaker:
00:33:23
what I've seen is they're just larger companies that are on there that
Speaker:
00:33:27
will sponsor, and they're not so much focused
Speaker:
00:33:31
on the quality. They're it's more just based on the numbers. Like, oh, we're paying
Speaker:
00:33:34
x number of 10,000 downloads or something like
Speaker:
00:33:37
that. So Yeah. That that stuff does exist out there. I I
Speaker:
00:33:41
can't remember the name of them right now, but there have been a few of
Speaker:
00:33:44
those. Some of them have been acquired and, you know,
Speaker:
00:33:47
changed. And some of them, I think they wanna do exactly what you say,
Speaker:
00:33:51
but they run into the problem that we just talked about, which is, oh, you
Speaker:
00:33:55
know, I wanna promote my show with this other person. This person claims they get
Speaker:
00:33:58
15,000 downloads, but, you know,
Speaker:
00:34:02
when push came to shove, they were getting 20. Right? So it it
Speaker:
00:34:06
it there was trust issues there, but I I agree that would be nice to
Speaker:
00:34:09
have a a good platform like that. Lastly, are there any podcasts on
Speaker:
00:34:13
your playlist that you have to listen to? Any that,
Speaker:
00:34:17
you know, you just you won't let an episode of the show go by,
Speaker:
00:34:21
or if you a new episode comes out, you're stopping what you're doing and listening
Speaker:
00:34:24
to that instead? It's funny.
Speaker:
00:34:28
I listen to everything on YouTube. So and, usually,
Speaker:
00:34:32
I'm listening to it because I'm researching guests. Right? And
Speaker:
00:34:35
so I'm listening to a lot of different types of podcasts. So I do
Speaker:
00:34:39
I have listened to, Jason Swank's podcast. He
Speaker:
00:34:43
specializes in digital agencies. I may have
Speaker:
00:34:47
listened to, I'll admit it to you. I don't know if I'll admit it to
Speaker:
00:34:50
him. His head will get big. But maybe, like, 350 or so
Speaker:
00:34:54
episodes of his show. He's been doing it for a long time. I listen
Speaker:
00:34:57
to John Corcoran's show, Smart Business Revolution. I
Speaker:
00:35:01
listen to Jordan Harbinger's show. He's got a lot of really
Speaker:
00:35:05
interesting guests. He does a lot of research, as well for
Speaker:
00:35:08
his show, and just whatever
Speaker:
00:35:12
else, when I'm researching, I'll stumble across
Speaker:
00:35:16
other specific niche. So I'm looking more for like, at the guest
Speaker:
00:35:19
than the show. So if I'm like, okay. I'm researching top
Speaker:
00:35:23
people in, you know, agency space, I'll I'll
Speaker:
00:35:27
research that and, listen to a couple episodes.
Speaker:
00:35:31
Right. Very good. Well, once again, we have been
Speaker:
00:35:35
chatting with Jeremy Weiss. He's the cofounder of Rise twenty
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00:35:39
five Media. You can learn more about them at
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00:35:41
inspiredinsider.com. And,
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00:35:44
yes, if you're someone out there who is thinking about how do I really use
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00:35:48
podcasting to grow my influence,
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00:35:52
grow my network, grow just me as a person, and then see
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00:35:55
where that can lead you. I I cannot stress that
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00:35:59
Jeremy's, firm is a great place to start with that with that question.
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00:36:03
So, Jeremy, good to see you. Thank you for joining me. Thanks for
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00:36:06
having me. Thanks for joining us today on Podcasting Tech.
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00:36:11
There are links to all the hardware and software that help power our guest
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00:36:14
content and
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00:36:16
tech.com.
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00:36:21
You can also subscribe to the show on your favorite platform, connect with us on
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00:36:24
social media, and even leave a rating and review while you're there. Thanks, and
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00:36:28
we'll see you next time on Podcasting Tech.
