Finding Yourself Through Self-Care with Katrell | Ep.6 | No Filter Needed

Brooke Williams: No Filter Needed is the Unfiltered Podcast Redefining Modern Masculinity, Confidence, and Grooming. Hosted by New Norm's Creative Director Brooke and journalist Mike, we explore how men can look and feel their best. From man on the street takes to expert advice, we talk style, self-care, and mental health. No fluff, no BS. New episodes drop twice a month. Follow and subscribe and connect with us at Hello at NewNorm.com. Thank you again for joining us today on No Filter Needed. I am really excited to have this conversation, Cottrell. And I'd love to just start off by learning a little bit more about you and your passion. Absolutely. Well, I'm excited ⁓ to be here, Brooke. So I'm a Bed Side boy. I was born and raised in ⁓ Bedsty. ⁓ still live in Bed Side, Brooklyn. ⁓ and now professionally I'm a lobbyist. ⁓ focusing on the state of New York and Albany. ⁓ and that is my passion, right? That is, you know, public policy, politics and government relations is something that ⁓ drives me. So we can try to find a solutions ⁓ to some of the issues that we inherited now. So we're the now the ones sitting in the seats, ⁓ really thinking about some of these huge issues, you know, housing and income ⁓ e inequality and affordability are you know, things that people are talking about every day, but like what is our generation doing to actually resolve that? ⁓ I am not in office, I am not a government official. ⁓ but I am playing around in that space as a lobbyist, taking issues to government officials to try to resolve that. ⁓ and you know, trying to be a fixer to some of those issues is what is ⁓ driving me every day. That is amazing. Now I'm curious to know what actually got you into this field? I always thought that I wanted to be a politician and then I changed my mind. ⁓ I used to joke that ⁓ I woke up in the morning saying that I wanted to be a politician and I changed my mind by the end of the day because I saw everything in between. ⁓ and now I'm still in the public policy space. ⁓ I mean, Brooke, you and I first met met when we were on a political campaign trying to ⁓ find a way to changed the world one elected official congressman at a time. ⁓ so that is where I started. ⁓ and now ⁓ I am, you know, in a multi faced ⁓ public policy, multi client space. ⁓ prior to coming here, I worked for Habitat for Humanity eight years as their chief lobbyist in New York City. ⁓ and that's where my love and passion of housing came from, right? Because that's where you kind of see where someone who is housing insecure and giving them that ⁓ that home changes their their life. ⁓ for someone who has been housing insecure and family was housing insecure, changes people's lives. There's something that you could do by just building something for someone to actually afford ⁓ people's most expensive expense every month is housing, right? So That's where my passion came in and I was also doing it for eight years. So ⁓ you know, it is very ingrained in me at this point. ⁓ and and that's where, you know, I started off on the policy on on the politics campaign side, ⁓ really rooted myself in policy of housing policy. And now I'm touching multiple ⁓ ways that we can talk about policy and housing, whether that is ⁓ AI and technology, homeownership, ⁓ supportive housing, homelessness. ⁓ I mean, we could talk about multiple aspects of housing and it's very exciting to me. That's amazing. It is very exciting work. Thank you. Now tell me a little bit more about yourself. Has self-care always been something that's important for you, or is that something that came later in life? I think self-care has always been something that was important to me. I think I got better at it ⁓ as I got older and understood what self care was and what what my body was and what I wanted. So that's I think something that I always ⁓ was very in tune to. ⁓ I I've always hated here, body here, right? Like I I always was like immune to it. ⁓ so I always knew about grooming myself and making sure but you know grooming in ⁓ That aspects of yourself, as you educate your more yourself more, as you start to understand your your body type and what ⁓ how you sweat, for example, and where you sweat and what your body needs, because everybody's body is not the same. I am the youngest of three boys. We were raised by my ⁓ single working mob. So imagine that my mom is raising three boys. ⁓ in a house and it's us three and her. so three boys are just nasty, right? Like I am 13, my brother is 16, my oldest brother is 19. And it was just like she would buy three sticks of deodorant and it was just like, here, take it, y'all stink. But like it might not have been the best deodorant for me. ⁓ and I don't really get that and know that until I have to start buying my own ⁓ so that's also an aspect of it as well. It's like when I've been able to ⁓ financially support myself and know what my body needed, it wasn't, you know, looking at someone else to really tell me how I'm going to be self care for myself. I was able to trial things out. And you know, I think that's what ⁓ my experience has been, trial with error. Well, really though, it really is a matter of trial and error. And it's also crazy how things change throughout your life. I definitely would have appreciated a heads up about adult puberty and how things were gonna change again. But, you know, it's really important to find what works best for you. I have nephews now that again they're going through the same process that ⁓ my mom went through, right? Their mom is raising then and it's two boys and they stink, right? Like I don't know, but they stink. And sometimes boys don't know that they, you know, just out of nowhere you become eight years old. And then when you're nine, you just start stinking. And you don't really sometimes always smell yourself until someone else is like, you stink. ⁓ so that's been my process, right? It's like knowing what that is and knowing how I wanted to show up and not be embarrassed, right? Like so you don't want for someone in high school to be like, ew, Cotrell stinks. He doesn't smell well. ⁓ but as you start to go into your professional career, that grooming starts to take a mind of its own. You start to how you show up, right? Some people wear a beard. I hate face you here, right? So like my grooming is a very clean cut look. ⁓ but that's what I myself had to go through that process of. Who is controlling what does control look like in spaces? ⁓ because if I grow out a beer, it is dip everyone's gonna be like, that's different for you. right? Like what you usually get is a clean cut, like no nothing here, a mustache, and all that spotter. Well, I'm really great that you figured that out for yourself and, you know, been able to go through the process. And what would you say do you know, like was there anybody in your life who also gave you guidance and support along the way. Would you say that there was any additional ⁓ inspiration along the way? I I would say no. ⁓ I would say a lot of it again was like trial and error. ⁓ you're you're trying to find out what you want to smell like, right? So what your deodorant is, ⁓ you want to find out what your what your cologne is. ⁓ sometimes it's not cologne. You have oils that you might want to wear. You start to find out what your fish you here is, right? So, ⁓ I think all of that was just my experience. ⁓ my mom tells me all the time that ⁓ the the Lewises, my father's side, ⁓ are hairy, right? My father is is very hairy. So that process is something that many of my brothers and my ⁓ my father's side go through where we're we're trying to find out what to do with this ⁓ here and Do some of us have longer hair, some of us have shorter hair, some of us ⁓ have body hair, right? Like and it works for you however that works. ⁓ and how you maintain that is important. ⁓ so you know, I've always been like, I'm not gonna maintain it, I don't like it. ⁓ so like I'm going to what does that grooming look like? ⁓ what was the what does that timeline of grooming look like, right? So you have some people who, you know, cut hair every week. Right. Like, or you have people that's like, I don't I'm going to do it X amount of time. Right. Like it it is a process that I think everyone has to go through individually. ⁓ because it is their own personal body. Even if I had a mentor or somebody who was like, This is how you should do it. You don't know how my hair grows and you don't know how my hair smells, right? Like, yeah, all of that goes through experiences that you have to personally go through for yourself. And that's been my experience. And you know, you made a really good point when we last connected around, you know, not everybody who you've met has been very open or even interested in talking about grooming and their version of self care. Would you say that, you know, it has been a conversation you're able to have with your family or more so friends, or is it something that you've mainly done individually? I think it's both, right? I I don't think it is ⁓ I sometimes think that ⁓ grooming yourself is like a table conversation because people are like that's TMI, that's a little bit too much of your information. but if you are going through the process of like talking to people about what that looks like for them and they're willing to have that conversation, that I am willing to have that conversation with them ⁓ about You know what products you use and and how you ⁓ should cut ⁓ whatever, right? Like I don't cut my ⁓ facial hair ⁓ every week, for example, although I you know grow hair very quickly. ⁓ it can affect your skin, right? So and and I really didn't learn that until it started to affect my skin about how I should cut my hair, ⁓ how I should lubricate. you my hair before I cut it, right? Because just cutting dry hair off your skin is is not helpful. But that was all beginning like trial and error, right? So I'm going through that process on my own. So people have that conversation with me. ⁓ I do have that conversation with people. I have learned that it is it's also one of those that I think people have a conversation with people they're close with. So I I I know, you know, some people have conversations with their partners, ⁓ with their ⁓ significant ⁓ other. ⁓ and that's because like, look, if if you just got a haircut, Some people like, ⁓ my man's not going out looking like that because everybody gonna be looking at ⁓ right? Like I I say all the time, a man's haircut is like their it is their the the most grooming that they probably are going to see visually when you first see somebody, right? ⁓ for for women it might be makeup. For a man is a fresh haircut. And sometimes people are like, I don't I don't want my man going out with a fresh haircut because people are gonna be all on him. I've never heard that. Yeah. I mean I I think it is definitely a thing where people ⁓ look ⁓ a fresh haircut for a man, they will definitely feel they sell, right? They will definitely feel proud and they will be walking different. ⁓ we've seen this in some of the work that I do, right? We see that street homelessness, for example, when you have someone who is street homeless, their hair might be wild and they might be a little gritty. One of the first things that a lot of people have tried to do as it relates to street homelessness is when they take them off the street to clean them up, give them a haircut. And when you give ⁓ a man or a woman, right? But if you give a person a haircut straight off the street, you see the mindset of their change. They see themselves in the mirror differently. ⁓ and that's what I mean about that, that what a a haircut could do to somebody. It could drastically change not just how they view themselves, but how other people view them those now, you know, they are they got a little pepper mixed up. And how that that that does something to somebody. You are correct. You know, mentally it definitely is you know, very empowering to look at yourself and feel confident. Yeah. Like we all want to look cute and pretty. It don't matter, right? I don't I don't care how masculine or non-masculine you are. At the end of the day, everybody wants to look pretty and cute. ⁓ now who's who too is different, right? So you you might feel like, you know, a clean shave is not for you, and then someone might have a full beard and feel that's the look for me, but there is always a look for somebody. Yeah. And whether you are purposely cleaning out, you know, your face or keeping a beard, ⁓ you're doing it for a look. And I think to that point, ⁓ that look is important, but making sure that it is groomed, that it is clean, ⁓ is very important for in my personal opinion, just your your soul and yourself. Because it don't have to be for everybody, but it could just be for yourself. ⁓ to make sure that that part of your health, you know, because at the end of the day I do think that grooming is a piece of health. ⁓ that part of your health is is your own reason or why you're doing it. That is so true. And I think that's the, you know, biggest importance around self care, doing what you can to, you know, enhance your own joy in life and feel happy with yourself. You know, I know it's something that is also when it comes to your to your point, facial hair, is very important, you know, my husband as well. And just very routine with his schedule. Personally, I want him to go out and look good and, you know, get compliments and, you know, more confident. ⁓ but to each his own. That's not every partner, Brook. That's not every partner. Yeah. But I would say I would say even my curse opinion, as I was just talking about about street homelessness, you know. But I think we all had also our own case studies as it relates to grooming and the importance of grooming yourself and ⁓ and that was during COVID. Many of us could not fully groom ourselves. I could cut my beard, I could cut my but ⁓ personally also it kind of grew out because I was like I'm not seeing everybody anybody every day. ⁓ but actually getting a professional haircut was impossible for months, right? So you had a lot of people just, I will speak for myself, unhappy with what I was seeing every day because I was like, it doesn't matter how many times I try to cut this hair, it just is not cutting how I am used to seeing every two weeks in the mirror. And that's where I think that it's very important that grooming is something that people ⁓ and and men take into account, right? It's like going to the barbershop, which is A social experiment, but also a personal experiment of of cleaning yourself every two weeks. For me, it's every two weeks. ⁓ and making sure that when you look in the mirror, you can appreciate the person that you see. Now, to what you were re referring to earlier, when it comes to the work and the process that your team works with, especially with homelessness and encouraging other people to find, you know, their own path with your work trying to empower people and trying to give them the tools and resources to further, you know, enhance their lives. I'm curious to know how else mental health and self care plays into that war. I think mental health in New York City, in this country, right? So looking at it from a public policy view, I think it is one of those issues that do not get enough attention, right? So again, we all live in a world where we just had a pandemic and or a few years ago we had a pandemic, right? and I don't think we fully have come out of that socially. I don't think everyone has really expressed how they felt being alone, or if you have lost somebody, or if you move. ⁓ because of pick a reason, right? New York City, a lot of people moved because it was nine million people living in one city and people felt it was probably more comfortable for them to move somewhere else. Did you really want to move or did you do that for safety reasons? But now, you know, you're maybe you're stuck there, maybe you don't really want to be there anymore. I don't think as public policy we have really dived deep into homelessness issues of people who I think society completely dismissed when everybody went home. ⁓ when I was working in again, housing is my passion. So but ⁓ when I was working at habitat and working in housing, which I, you know, kind of still do, but ⁓ I always said When the mandate was to stay at home. It's very hard when someone don't have a home. And the hardship then becomes what did everybody that did not have a home do? And in New York City, at least, what many people who suffer from mental health issues is they found homes in the MTA. They found homes on the train. And out of nowhere, We turn back the society faucet and everyone comes back onto the MTA, where these people have now found comfort and they have been staying there for weeks, for months, and now people start coming back. And it's because we dismiss those people by saying everybody else, you could go home and you can be comfortable there. And we don't really know what we're going to do with this homeless population, but they're not our issue right now. And We have to deal with that, right? Because that mental health is needed for those people because that's not their home. The NTA, the train system is not their home. And but we need to it's not a criminal issue. It's not a you need to go somewhere else issue. It's a mental health issue. And we need to address that. And we need to address our own issues if we do have ⁓ Right. So not just, you know, singling out people who are ⁓ street homeless. But mental health can be someone who is who is me, who is you, who is watching this, who are like, yeah, I wake up depressed, I go throughout the day, no one really knows it because I wear a mask that makes me smile every day. ⁓ but I don't tell anybody that I'm depressed. And by the end of the day, I am exhausted for wearing this mask and doing the regular work. And that is mental health as well, because that is not healthy. ⁓ and you need to you need to break through that wall. And that's why I think public policy wise, ⁓ we need to address which what me and my team does with some of our clients, really addressing the issue that people are dealing with day to day as relations well. Honestly, it's amazing work. It's really unfortunate to your point. I see so frequently in many cities the solution is just ⁓ People. Right. So they're not visible in a certain location and just keep shuffling them instead of finding a way to actually help them and provide resources for them to build a sustainable lives for themselves. And I I represent an organization that deals with the social services that's connected to someone's affordable housing. And again, you can't just take somebody off of street homelessness and put them in a hole. Often that person might have mental health challenges. ⁓ and they might need counseling. They might need medical services that's connected to their affordable housing. So that's where it's not just moving people as well, but it is a full team approach that we need to ensure that these people have the services connected to their person. If we are going to move them and we should be moving them off of the streets into a home, but we can't just move them into a home. We gotta ensure that they are protected ⁓ in that way. Tell me a little bit more about those social services and how they provide ongoing support. I mean, I think it's every organization is different. So I represent the trade association that ⁓ repres I represent the trade association that represents the organizations that do the social services and build the housing. Right. So if you're building just housing, that's one thing. But these are organizations that are connecting you to Whatever your service needs. So I we have one organization that is a domestic violence ⁓ survivor organization, right? So if you are a woman in New York City who walks away from your abuser, this organization is one of the only organizations in New York City that focuses on those DV survivors and take them from the services that they need to h ⁓ home, you know, housing. To that point. Think about some of the things that someone who is a V V survivor may need. ⁓ when they go to court and they might have a kid with their abuser, right? They need a court advocate because they are now sitting in a situation where it's their abuser, a judge, and themselves. You kind of need somebody in the middle to be a court advocate and say, I need to speak for her because you know, she might have PTSD seeing this gentleman again. There are organizations that are for people who are formally drug addicted, ⁓ and trying to get them ⁓ the services that they need. Some of the services are social services, some of the services are casework, getting somebody a job, ⁓ who are coming straight off of the streets. ⁓ so all of it is different and it all depends on the mission of the organization. But that's where the arching of the trade association that I represent, I can You know, we could be talking about domestic violence or we could be talking about ⁓ people who are ⁓ formerly drug addicted ⁓ and everybody in between. With the work that you're doing, I'm curious to know, have you ever experienced imposter syndrome or is that something that you feel like you still continue with today on occasion? I think it depends on a day. I think it depends on a tie. I think it depends on what I do. I am at all sometimes of where I am at in my professional space. ⁓ I am a bedside boy ⁓ who grew up in the Nike's, right? Raised by a single working mom. first one in my family to go to college. youngest of three boys, which are the nineties, ⁓ it's said that one out of three black boys should be dead or in jail by their age. Of 18. So neither me or my brothers ⁓ see the inside of a gen cell or a casket. So for me, I am always at awe of like where I have gone to ⁓ where I am trying to also go. ⁓ so to that point, like the imposter syndrome is sometimes for me wow. Like look at where I am now ⁓ and my path so far. But I also know that I have ⁓ bust my butt to get to where I am. ⁓ so one one way to really trigger that Bad Star boy is to question if I should be in the room where I am. ⁓ and that That might be one way that that imposter syndrome, if I was feeling it inside, question if I should be in the room that I'm supposed to be in. ⁓ because of the work that I have put in and the the people that I have served. ⁓ I might question myself while control look at where you have come. ⁓ but I don't expect anybody else to question that. And I don't know, I don't question I don't expect ⁓ people who do not know my path and do not know the work that I have done, the sacrifices that I have made, ⁓ I don't expect them to question me. I don't question you, you shouldn't question me. Absolutely. And I think that's where I think that's how people should approach their apostasy role. Right? If you if you are at all of where you have gone for where you started. I mean there's a little there's a little crook in you and there's a little control of me that is like I would have never thought ⁓ I would have never thought in twenty years this is where I would be right now. Never, right? Like I didn't know a lobbyist was a thing. I didn't know it was a job in high school, in college. Didn't know. ⁓ I fell into this, right? I always knew I wanted to be a p ⁓ in politics. I didn't know it was a thing for me to still be able to write policy and not be a politician. So for me, like that imposture syndrome is like the little boy and me being like, wow, that's what I want to be when I grow up. But that's my imposture syndrome. But you should be at all of that. But when you are negotiating and when you're doing your work and when you are, when you are being who you are, you shouldn't you shouldn't question yourself while you're in that. That is an excellent way of looking at it. Now I'm curious, what advice would you have for other young adults who are figuring out, you know, what self care looks like for them, what grooming looks like for them in the midst of managing their mental health or managing their career? What advice would you have? I like that we call it self care because that is that is for you to find out. It's it's Similar to what I said, right? I went through trial and error and I think there are people that you could talk to about their process, but it's important for you to go through that process yourself. And ⁓ it's okay to get lost a little bit, not on the mental health side, right? Like if you start to spider around, I need you to kind of ha you know, seek help. But on the self care, self grooming, what does that look like? I think for professionals it's how we want to show up in the world. Right? For someone like you who wears natural hair, for someone like me who cuts my hair short, right? For someone that has a beard, who's someone that don't have a beard. I can't advise you based on my experience. Right? And my and as I said, it's everyone's body is different. I hate here. I hate hair because of multiple issues and multiple reasons. ⁓ some people know how to manage that for themselves. I shouldn't tell people, you know, listen, cut it, cut it all off and cut the right like because then you it it can affect you differently, right? I know the body hair that I have. Again, going back to my three brothers, the body hair that I have or the lack of body hair I don't have, if my oldest brother tried to do that, he breaks out. Yep, my husband's the exact same. Yeah. And my brother. Yeah. Right. He breaks out. He hives. He can't do it. Right. I have to and it's seasonal as well, right? ⁓ it is me and my brother cannot use the same soap. And we learned that living in the same house. Right. ⁓ so it all depends because I could tell you to use these products and it breaks you out, and it doesn't break me up. And you just have to go through that process yourself and you gotta know how you wanna show up in these spaces. And I think one amazing thing that again going on public policy is the Crown Act, where people should not be discriminated against about how they wear their hair. Right? So if you have lots, wear your lobs. We're proud. But I can't tell you how to clean lots. I don't have locks. ⁓ I can't tell you how to wear curls. I try to do curls, but then you know it don't always curl for me. And that goes back to that's why I think it's important to call it self-care. Because there's some people's hair that when my hair grows, it only curls. But it doesn't big curl, it's small curls. If I cut my hair very short, it waves. Now there's some people who will wear do-rad and they do the hundred brushes and they do the grease. And a little bit of waves start to come. And one of my brothers hated me because he's like, You do nothing for your hair. And it just comes, right? All of our hair is different. And once you start going through that process of like your body oils, and that is just essential to you, right? Like that's your body oils. Once you find out who you are as a person, how you want to show up. I think that is how I have gone through my process of Going through self-care and self-grooming. Yeah, honestly, that's really well said. And you know, it is such a personal thing. And I feel like it changes so much throughout your life. And even at one point in time, personally I find I never have one standard of self care for myself. I have what I'm doing just to survive and get through the day. Where like I am willing to go for like a very, very special event to show up for somebody else. And then there's like, you know, my somewhat average where I'm figuring it out for myself. But I ⁓ that's where it's important for the work that you do, right? Is the work and the products that y'all make ⁓ is important because it helps how someone wants to show up in the world. My self-care also is Finding what makes you happy in a world as well. I went kayaking this summer. Okay. It felt beautiful to be in nature. I went hiking a few weeks ago. Okay. ⁓ I watch cartoons at night because I deal with politics and the news all day. So I watch cartoons where I'm just like self-care in that mental health is finding things that make you happy. ⁓ I go to the gym every day ⁓ to work out and to sometimes run off. the issues that I dealt with for today. ⁓ finding something that makes you at all of the work that you do, but you can remove yourself. Over the fall, I'll be ⁓ I'll be doing a pottery class and making pottery. And again, I think that goes to your self-care and your your your grooming, ⁓ you know, just stuff like that where it's just If it makes you uncomfortable and you've always wanted to do it, do it. ⁓ and that's what I would also advise people. Just that's good advice. And you don't need someone to do it with you. I went kayaking and I did it by myself. Hey, okay. My friend was supposed to come with me. She got stuck. I was like, Well, I'm still gone. We we we kay I kayaked Dr. Hudson. It was a struggle, but I loved it. ⁓ I don't know if anybody's gonna take me up for the pottery class with me now once I share this. But like pottery class, I'm doing it on Mondays. ⁓ I went hiking. Like, if you gonna come, you could come with me. But if not, again, my self-care is myself. It's itself. I have to do it. And I wanna do it, and I'm gonna do it. You're gonna have an amazing time. Please send me a photo of whatever you make in your pottery. ⁓ it's gonna be easier, but it doesn't matter. You know, I'm still gonna be like, you know, a moment for you to just meditate and be at peace and it'll just remind you of those moments, maybe. Finding your own routine as well. So I I wake up, I meditate before I look at my phone. I meditate for the day. I like that routine. ⁓ I go to the gym, I do a physical activity, I find something. ⁓ that makes me think about myself selfishly and not about the world I'm about to step into. Yeah. I think what I would have also advised people is just find that thing that censors you for you and not it shouldn't be looped into who control is as a lobbyist, because that's not who control is, right? Like I'm entrepreneurial as it relates to my experiences. I wanna learn. I wanna see what's out there. And to that point, like if I can go out and meditate for understanding and then go pottery and make something, and I might find something in that space as well, I'm I'm gonna do that. So like find something that you like and do it. I love that advice. That's the perfect place to Wrap it up. Love it.