WEBVTT
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You know, you'll be on as a temporary employee, W4, blah blah blah blah, at a rate of 55 an hour equivalent of 114,500 a year.
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I thought there's no way that this is real.
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Hi, I'm Ravozeri and welcome to How Much Can I Make?
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I am a curious journalist, fascinated by what people do for a living, what their jobs are really like, and how much they can earn.
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Join me as we dive into stories behind careers, uncovering insights and details, which I hope you'll find as intriguing as I do.
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So let's get started.
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Today's guest is Andy De Sanctis, who will tell us how you can get into the tech industry even if you don't know how to code, even if you do not have a computer degree, but still want to make up to$300,000 a year and maybe even more.
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So let's dive right in.
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And first of all, Andy, thank you for doing it.
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Yeah, you're welcome, Mara.
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This is fun.
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So I looked up on your LinkedIn page and I saw you are a Salesforce practitioner.
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Correct.
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What is it?
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The software I work for is Salesforce.
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Okay.
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And that software is a platform.
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So when you it it kind of does, it's it's walking and chewing gum at the same time.
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It is a product, it's actually a suite of products to help you manage relationships with your customers, to help you manage relationships with your patients, if you're a hospital, manage relationships with your donors, if you are a nonprofit, maybe you're managing programs through that nonprofit or services that are being offered.
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All those things are natively built into the Salesforce platform, but also this is the chew and gum part, you can build your own products on the platform without having to deal with any of the I mean, I do deal with it.
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You design your own needs on the other.
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Exactly.
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So you design your own architecture based on the processes that are uh are needed, and it's very flexible.
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That's the sort of that's why Salesforce has blown up in so many sectors, is because it's not um what's known as a closed uh source product, it's open source.
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So for somebody to do what you do, they need to master Salesforce.
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I think they need to master the concepts of relational databases and what's known as object-oriented environments.
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The most basic of that is an Excel spreadsheet.
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And you don't need to code.
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That's kind of the beauty of the work I do.
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Like I don't write code.
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All of the code is embedded in everything that I build.
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It's almost as if I'm telling the system what I want it to do, and then it goes and writes the code for me.
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Is it a job or is it a freelance kind of thing?
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It can be, it's it's it's very dynamic.
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And because it is a software open source product, you probably should have someone dedicated in the company that manages those internal products for you.
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And that would be a Salesforce administrator.
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And so they would be the ones who would create all the logins for everybody, create the training, and then when configurations needed for changes, like if we want a new field or if we want a new piece of automation, that administrator would be the one who would put all of that together.
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And so it's very much like having your own dedicated software developer or um resource, but they're on the company payroll, right?
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The other piece of that is that maybe you don't want a dedicated administrator, maybe you want to hire a contractor to come in and help you get set up, and then you just kind of run with it, right?
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There's a whole ecosystem of partners like me that will help you implement Salesforce, that will help you figure out okay, well, this thing comes pre-built in such a way, but it's like 40% actually different than what how we do it.
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And so as a consultant, I would essentially manipulate Salesforce to do the thing that you do while still maintaining the fundamentals of the platform to bring value to the customer.
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So it's it's extraordinarily dynamic.
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And what I like about it and what I've always kind of advocated for in my own community of professionals and people getting into it, is it's accessibility, right?
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It is extremely accessible for anyone to get into.
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It takes a lot of self-uh taught work.
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So you don't need to be a computer graduate or anything like that.
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I would say that most of the people I've worked with who are, I mean, I know my background is not in computer science.
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My background's in environmental uh policy and economics.
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But I really I was into data from a research standpoint many years ago, and I just fell into using Salesforce, and because it is so customizable, uh, the role that I had back in Philly required the program I was running to do something that I didn't know how to make happen.
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But we had this tool, and I just kind of forced it.
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I willed it to my bent it to my will.
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And that tool was Salesforce.
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That's right, yeah, that's right.
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And I was the program manager.
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I ran, I had a staff of 15, and you know, we were out there doing Obama's work out there and energy efficiency and weatherization, and it was really cool.
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And we were using Salesforce to to basically manage the program.
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Now, I didn't want to get into Salesforce, my background was in this other space, but I just used it as a tool.
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Just another software.
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It's another it's yeah, it's what am I gonna do with this?
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I just used it.
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Okay, you know, I'm done with it, I'm gonna go to something else.
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And that's when I moved to Portland because when the program ended, and I got a call from a firm in Portland who said, Hey, we are using Salesforce in one of our energy efficiency programs.
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Would you fly out here for six months and help us build out this piece of functionality?
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And I remember thinking, like, I can't do that.
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What are they talking about?
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I can't build that shit.
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But I said, you know, the funny part, uh, I was making on a salary about$38,000 a year as a program manager.
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And when the recruiter in Portland said, we'll pay you$55,000.
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You didn't think twice.
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I said, Oh, okay,$55,000, that sounds great.
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Of course.
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You know, and I didn't, we just kept saying$55,000, okay.
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And my assumption was it was$55,000 a year, prorated at six months because they wanted me there for six months.
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What he was saying was$55 an hour.
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And so when I got the offer letter, it said, uh, you know, you'll be on as a temporary employee, W4, blah, blah, blah, blah, to rate$55, an hour, equivalent of$114,500 a year.
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I thought, there's no way that this is real.
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This isn't right.
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And of course, I called the recruiter, I said, What's going on?
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And he said, What do you mean what's going on?
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Do you want to do this?
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I said, Yeah, well, well, now I want to, you know.
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Uh it was shocking because it was, it was, I was exposed to a sliver of the market that was had very, very high demand.
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And I it it was a learning lesson for me because I I really saw that dynamic between labor demand and labor availability.
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And there just wasn't as many, you know, uh consultancies that were starting to pop up.
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There just wasn't that many people who were good at building it out.
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Is the demand still exist?
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Oh, yeah.
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I mean, I wouldn't be in business if it didn't.
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And they still pay 55 an hour?
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They pay more than that.
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Oh well, you go and you go into the um into the space and as as a you know, an independent consultant like like myself, and you're easily billing between you know probably one and two hundred an hour.
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Whoa.
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Yeah, it's it's very good.
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What size companies usually hire after the company?
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Every size, every every size.
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So you know, right now I'm working with um a small nonprofit uh that's basically a startup, and I'm doing an implementation for them.
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Uh one of the really nice parts about nonprofits and Salesforce is that Salesforce will donate 10 free licenses to nonprofits at no cost for the whole the whole shebang.
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Uh and that's that's about a$16,000 uh annual value because the licenses are not cheap.
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The licenses are about$150 per user per month.
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Okay.
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So that could if you've got 10 users and it's$150 a piece per month, uh, what's the math on that?
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You're at like$17,000 a year.
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And that's just a habit.
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That's not even the cost and time it would take to make it the way you want it.
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And so the nonprofits get this break.
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So folks like me can come in and say, okay, here's what are you doing?
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Let's build out a product on the platform for you to use to meet your mission as an organization.
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And it's so ubiquitous now in the nonprofit space that Salesforce has built products specifically for nonprofits because they can see everything that guys like me are building.
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Do you need any kind of certification before a company would hire you?
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How does it work?
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There is there is a uh a basic certification, uh, the Salesforce Administrator certification that is sort of the gateway.
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For many years, that's no one would even, and that's still true, you would not be able to get hired unless you had the certification.
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And that's a certification, it it's difficult to get.
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You get it from Salesforce itself?
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It does.
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They they have uh their own test, they have a third party that uh manages the testing, credentialing, the whole thing.
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So now, I mean, when they when I started out, I think they had like five or six certifications, and now they've got like 50.
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I mean, it's pretty it's pretty significant.
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But that's it.
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But if somebody wants to break in, they can work as an assistant or volunteer to work with somebody, get familiar with it, and then apply for the certificate?
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What ends up happening a lot more often is that people see the starting salaries of people who have uh a Salesforce admin certification and they just go through all the documentation and study really, really hard, and then they start applying for jobs after they've they've got that first certification.
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And what is the starting salary?
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It ranges, I mean, it really is it's come down a little bit because there are so many more people going into the space than there used to be.
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But you know, with zero to two years experience, you could be starting anywhere between 70 and probably$85,000 a year.
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Whoa!
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Yeah, that is very nice.
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It's not bad.
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And you can grow up to what?
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Uh I know folks, you know, making close to$300,000.
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Whoa.
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Yeah.
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$300,000 a year.
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Yeah.
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Once you get to that technical architect level, which is sort of the top, the top level where you're, you know, sort of the the puppet master, you know, you're pulling all the strings for all, you know, the pieces on a giant enterprise-sized organization, you become very, very valuable.
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So the skills that were required from a beginner would be knowing Excel.
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What else?
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I think uh having a really solid understanding of criteria-based logic, like basic logic, like putting together sort of logical conditions, so that if this thing happens in a certain condition, then this other thing will happen, which is sort of the basis for automation.
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I think understanding the idea of relationships between things, because again, it is a relational database.
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Excel is not really a relational database.
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You can create relationships like between cells across tables, but that's it's very that's very simplistic.
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Right.
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Um, this is much more dynamic.
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I'd say Excel would be, you know, two-dimensional, and something like Salesforce would be like three-dimensional.
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Can you share an example of a project you worked on?
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I've worked a few projects that are are for construction and building uh companies.
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I build stuff.
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I like to, you know, I I told you about my house in Portland.
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I did a lot of work on that place with a buddy of mine.
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And just I like I hate it, but I also enjoy it.
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And I built three different applications to manage the construction process uh for different organizations.
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So one of them was in Portland, it was a nonprofit that built uh low-income housing for uh for folks in town.
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You know, it's they're they're a construction company, right?
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They have all the all the trappings and all the things that need to happen, you know.
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They have their plans, they have all the materials, they have their permits, they have the subs, they've got their different, you know, they've got their plumbers, their electricians, they got to put stuff out to bid, you know, project planning, project statuses, moving things through the through the through the pipeline.
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Yeah, it was a lot of fun.
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That was a really that was a cool one.
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That was uh I enjoyed that project, yeah.
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And you think they're still using the Salesforce that's a good idea.
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I hope they are, yeah, I would imagine.
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I think they're probably it was a lot better than what they had before.
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So So once you design for, let's say, a company like a construction company, the Salesforce to work for them, do they hire you back?
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So yeah, so that's a good question.
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You will often build something, and what the customer begins to realize is that, oh, okay, this is now working the way I want it to work, but you know, six months later, maybe they are doing a new thing or they're doing it a different way.
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That's when they would probably re-re-engage with me to say, hey, we're gonna, we'd really like it if if we're doing this new thing, we'd really like if Salesforce could support it.
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Yeah, that's when I would come in and and either do a redesign of of a particular area or build something completely new.
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So you basically have uh repeated clients that come to you again and again, and you just build enough of a client base and then you'll you'll be set.
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Uh yeah, I mean that's that's the that's the dream, you know, uh, and getting good relationships with the with these clients.
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And many of them do have dedicated internal staff that only work on Salesforce.
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But, you know, you're coming into, you know, you've been in it longer, you're you've got more expertise, you know, you're sort of brought in to uh architect a new solution, help them implement it, uh, you know, teach them best practices and that kind of thing.
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So basically you can work on two or three customers at the same time, correct?
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Oh, easily, yeah.
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Easily.
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Yes.
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Nice, you can make a very nice living.
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Yeah.
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Is there any misconception about people that work with Salesforce?
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Oh, sure.
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Like what?
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Set it straight.
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Uh I mean, I think there are honestly a lot of the misconceptions come from users because you'll have a user who's been at a company who bought Salesforce but then that didn't invest in actually manipulating it to make it work for the company, right?
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So you'll have experiences from users that are like, I hate that thing, I'll never want to use it again.
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It doesn't make any sense to me.
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What's unfortunate is that you can be very bad and you can hide a lot of bad work.
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And because you maybe are on a project for only a month or two, that bad work may not actually ever be known until years later.
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And that's something that I do experience a lot.
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You know, I come into orgs that have been worked on by other consultants or other um, you know, contractors, or maybe uh they did have a dedicated admin who was brand new, was there for a year, and then left after a year.
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Are there any kind of online courses that there's more online courses than you can shake a stick at?
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And do you recommend taking them?
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Yeah, but ultimately it's experience that gets you through it.
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So when you mentioned before that people study before they take the certification uh test from Salesforce, how do they learn?
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Salesforce has a learning uh website or something?
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There is, there's a they have this sort of gamified, um, it's called Trailhead, and it's pretty good.
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I mean, it's it's a uh it will walk you through how to do things, how to build automation.
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The problem is that it's it's not really giving you experience in part because while you will go through the process of building out a complex piece of automation, it will literally give you each and every step to do it.
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So you will have this list of things to do, and then you'll go over here in your org, your trial or demo org, and go build it.
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And you did it, right?
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But you weren't thinking.
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You weren't what got you to the point where you thought it was a good idea to do X, Y, and Z.
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Because the thing is, like anything else, I mean, you can cook turkey five different ways.
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Right.
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Right?
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How you get good at it is by is by doing it.
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And eating it.
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That's exactly right.
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One very important question.
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Okay.
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Is AI.
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Oh, yeah.
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AI can kill your job.
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No, not yet.
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There's not yet.
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Down the road, there's gonna be some incidents where developers, software developers will use AI to actually deploy code, write and deploy code.
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There's gonna be a something's gonna break, there's gonna be a mess.
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And whoever's organization they put that code into, someone's gonna go, who did this?
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And there will be no one answering because it was the AI that did it.
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There will be no one accountable.
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But somebody had to give the order to the AI to put it in, right?
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Not necessarily.
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You can set it up to run itself, right?
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And so ultimately, maybe you could come down to the company that was using this as a tool, right?
00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:13.840
But at the end of the day, AI is not going to be in a position anytime soon, at least from a data governance standpoint, of going into organizations and making changes to data architecture or changing data.
00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:15.840
Like that has to be done by a human.
00:16:16.080 --> 00:16:16.480
Why?
00:16:16.720 --> 00:16:19.759
Because we have to be held accountable to someone, okay, not something.
00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:20.159
Okay.
00:16:20.480 --> 00:16:22.159
I can't take an AI agent to court.
00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:24.559
The other thing is that the AI is not that good.
00:16:24.799 --> 00:16:25.600
Not yet.
00:16:25.840 --> 00:16:30.639
It's really not, and it's already starting to hit limits on what it can get good at.
00:16:30.879 --> 00:16:34.320
And so what I use it for is very, very different.
00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:37.679
I I do use it for like a gut check, you know.
00:16:37.759 --> 00:16:45.840
So I'll have a design idea, I'll have a way of how I would do something, and I will put that into the AI and see what it comes back with.
00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:46.240
Okay.
00:16:46.399 --> 00:16:52.240
And it will, it will, sometimes it comes back with 80% of what I wanted, and this other 20% is garbage, right?
00:16:52.480 --> 00:16:55.039
And that's pretty much the the ratio, I think.
00:16:55.200 --> 00:17:00.080
I've used it a couple times just to test it and say, how would I do this thing in this technical environment?
00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:01.600
And it will give you 20 steps.
00:17:01.679 --> 00:17:04.400
And by step 13, it's just making it up.
00:17:04.720 --> 00:17:10.640
So AI is threatening, not threatening you, it actually could help you be your consultant in a way.
00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:11.440
It could.
00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:17.759
And then you get some ideas that you didn't think about, maybe, or whatever, but then you go, you change it, and you implement it.
00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:18.400
That's right.
00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:22.400
And the one I did build, uh, so I don't, again, I told you, I don't write code.
00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:27.440
I can't look at you at a set of code and go, oh, that's Python, or that's Ruby, or that's React, right?
00:17:27.519 --> 00:17:28.400
I can't do that.
00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:30.480
But I did have an idea for a product.
00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:32.079
I went into an AI.
00:17:32.400 --> 00:17:35.680
So when you say product, you mean for an automation, right?
00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:37.519
No, and I had an idea for a product.
00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:38.319
Actual product.
00:17:38.640 --> 00:17:39.359
An actual product.
00:17:39.519 --> 00:17:39.839
Okay.
00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:47.359
And I said, I there's a tool called Claude, which is another, there's ChatGPT, there's Claude, there's a whole bunch of different services.
00:17:47.680 --> 00:17:47.839
Right.
00:17:48.160 --> 00:17:51.680
And so I started to interact with Claude about my idea.
00:17:51.759 --> 00:17:54.480
And Claude said, Oh, yeah, we can do this.
00:17:54.640 --> 00:17:56.799
Here's how we can put this together.
00:17:57.119 --> 00:18:04.160
And so I began building this product on Python, which is a language I have no idea how to use.
00:18:04.319 --> 00:18:06.000
I told it I had no idea how to use it.
00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:08.079
And I said, okay, here's what we're gonna do.
00:18:08.319 --> 00:18:08.799
Wow.
00:18:09.039 --> 00:18:16.640
And it helped me figure out how to get on a remote server to run the script, which I didn't even understand that architecture until it started to explain it to me.
00:18:16.720 --> 00:18:18.960
And then I realized, oh, okay, I need a remote server.
00:18:19.039 --> 00:18:20.960
I can get a test server from Google.
00:18:21.119 --> 00:18:22.640
We're gonna use Python.
00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:33.759
Okay, I have to load all these libraries into this code base, and then this Python script is going to do the thing that I want it to do with this other service, with the Gmail service.
00:18:33.920 --> 00:18:39.599
And so it's probably 400 lines of Python, and I wrote it, and the product works.
00:18:39.759 --> 00:18:41.200
And it works very well.
00:18:41.359 --> 00:18:42.640
Now here's the thing, Mara.
00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:43.599
I did all the work.
00:18:43.680 --> 00:18:44.000
Uh-huh.
00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:46.400
It didn't write it, there were several iterations.
00:18:46.480 --> 00:18:49.920
It would give me snippets of code, I would test it, maybe it worked, maybe it didn't.
00:18:50.079 --> 00:18:54.319
If it didn't work, I'd check the error, it would tell me, oh, okay, this is why that error is happening.
00:18:54.559 --> 00:18:55.440
Try this code, right?
00:18:55.759 --> 00:18:56.960
It's an iterative process.
00:18:57.119 --> 00:19:07.599
By the end of it, I learned so much about Python and remote servers and different tokens for different services and different APIs I had never worked with.
00:19:07.759 --> 00:19:13.920
Such that if I had to do it two to three to I don't know, probably five more times, I would be using the AI less and less.
00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:14.480
Okay.
00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:17.279
So it's not this which is It's a learning tool for you.
00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:19.839
It's a and I do think it could be a learning tool for most people.
00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:24.000
I think that people walk into it thinking it's gonna do this thing for me.
00:19:24.160 --> 00:19:24.640
It's not.
00:19:24.799 --> 00:19:34.160
Well, all Chat GPT and Claude and a lot of these services are now, in my opinion, they're very much what we wanted the internet to be for the past 25 years.
00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:34.720
Right.
00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:38.400
And so, as a tool to learn, that's definitely where I see it going.
00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:38.799
Yeah.
00:19:38.880 --> 00:19:42.400
What will happen if another software like Salesforce will come on the market?
00:19:42.559 --> 00:19:46.559
Are you in danger of losing your work and because people will switch?
00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:50.160
The reason that I'm always going to have work in the Salesforce space is because it's open source.
00:19:50.319 --> 00:19:52.000
All these other products are not open source.
00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:52.480
Right.
00:19:52.640 --> 00:19:58.000
If you want something changed, you gotta make a phone call to the account executive and say, hey, I need and there's some things you can do.
00:19:58.079 --> 00:19:59.759
I don't mean that to be, you know, it's like a blank.
00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:01.599
So most likely to stay.
00:20:01.839 --> 00:20:09.920
Yeah, I mean, if there's and if there's another platform out there that pops up that's open source, you know, yeah, there's probably a high likelihood that, you know, people will move to that one.
00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:11.519
So, last question.
00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:14.880
What would you advise somebody that wants to get into it?
00:20:15.119 --> 00:20:18.799
I'd have them ask themselves why do they want to get into it?
00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:25.519
Because if you want to get into it for the money alone, it's gonna be very hard if you don't already have the aptitude for it.
00:20:25.759 --> 00:20:31.039
I would say get into it because there are fundamental elements of it that you find very interesting.
00:20:31.359 --> 00:20:36.880
Then say, okay, I'm ready to commit to this because I know if I get to the end, I can have I can make a very good living.
00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:38.000
Excellent.
00:20:38.240 --> 00:20:39.359
Thanks a million.
00:20:39.519 --> 00:20:42.480
I've learned about something I had no clue about.
00:20:42.799 --> 00:20:47.200
Well, if you ever want to talk more about it, Marat, please, you're more than welcome.
00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:48.960
This was really interesting.
00:20:49.279 --> 00:20:50.559
Great, this is fun.
00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:51.759
I love talking about it.
00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:54.559
Okay, that's a wrap for today.
00:20:54.720 --> 00:21:00.160
If you have a comment or question or would like us to cover a certain job, please let us know.
00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:04.000
Visit our website at how much can I make that info.
00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:05.839
We would love to hear from you.
00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:12.480
And on your way out, don't forget to subscribe and share this episode with anyone who is curious about their next job.
00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:13.920
See you next time.
00:00:02.879 --> 00:00:09.839
You know, you'll be on as a temporary employee, W4, blah blah blah blah, at a rate of 55 an hour equivalent of 114,500 a year.
00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:11.919
I thought there's no way that this is real.
00:00:14.400 --> 00:00:18.320
Hi, I'm Ravozeri and welcome to How Much Can I Make?
00:00:18.480 --> 00:00:26.000
I am a curious journalist, fascinated by what people do for a living, what their jobs are really like, and how much they can earn.
00:00:26.160 --> 00:00:34.479
Join me as we dive into stories behind careers, uncovering insights and details, which I hope you'll find as intriguing as I do.
00:00:34.640 --> 00:00:36.159
So let's get started.
00:00:37.679 --> 00:00:52.719
Today's guest is Andy De Sanctis, who will tell us how you can get into the tech industry even if you don't know how to code, even if you do not have a computer degree, but still want to make up to$300,000 a year and maybe even more.
00:00:52.880 --> 00:00:54.320
So let's dive right in.
00:00:54.479 --> 00:00:57.119
And first of all, Andy, thank you for doing it.
00:00:57.439 --> 00:00:58.320
Yeah, you're welcome, Mara.
00:00:58.640 --> 00:00:59.039
This is fun.
00:00:59.359 --> 00:01:04.959
So I looked up on your LinkedIn page and I saw you are a Salesforce practitioner.
00:01:05.359 --> 00:01:05.760
Correct.
00:01:06.480 --> 00:01:06.959
What is it?
00:01:07.280 --> 00:01:08.959
The software I work for is Salesforce.
00:01:09.200 --> 00:01:09.359
Okay.
00:01:09.599 --> 00:01:11.680
And that software is a platform.
00:01:11.920 --> 00:01:16.560
So when you it it kind of does, it's it's walking and chewing gum at the same time.
00:01:16.799 --> 00:01:35.359
It is a product, it's actually a suite of products to help you manage relationships with your customers, to help you manage relationships with your patients, if you're a hospital, manage relationships with your donors, if you are a nonprofit, maybe you're managing programs through that nonprofit or services that are being offered.
00:01:35.760 --> 00:01:49.599
All those things are natively built into the Salesforce platform, but also this is the chew and gum part, you can build your own products on the platform without having to deal with any of the I mean, I do deal with it.
00:01:49.760 --> 00:01:50.879
You design your own needs on the other.
00:01:51.120 --> 00:01:51.439
Exactly.
00:01:51.519 --> 00:01:58.000
So you design your own architecture based on the processes that are uh are needed, and it's very flexible.
00:01:58.319 --> 00:02:07.120
That's the sort of that's why Salesforce has blown up in so many sectors, is because it's not um what's known as a closed uh source product, it's open source.
00:02:07.519 --> 00:02:11.599
So for somebody to do what you do, they need to master Salesforce.
00:02:12.000 --> 00:02:19.120
I think they need to master the concepts of relational databases and what's known as object-oriented environments.
00:02:19.439 --> 00:02:22.400
The most basic of that is an Excel spreadsheet.
00:02:22.639 --> 00:02:23.840
And you don't need to code.
00:02:23.919 --> 00:02:25.919
That's kind of the beauty of the work I do.
00:02:26.000 --> 00:02:27.039
Like I don't write code.
00:02:27.439 --> 00:02:30.159
All of the code is embedded in everything that I build.
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It's almost as if I'm telling the system what I want it to do, and then it goes and writes the code for me.
00:02:36.639 --> 00:02:39.199
Is it a job or is it a freelance kind of thing?
00:02:39.520 --> 00:02:41.599
It can be, it's it's it's very dynamic.
00:02:41.759 --> 00:02:51.280
And because it is a software open source product, you probably should have someone dedicated in the company that manages those internal products for you.
00:02:51.360 --> 00:02:53.360
And that would be a Salesforce administrator.
00:02:53.680 --> 00:03:09.599
And so they would be the ones who would create all the logins for everybody, create the training, and then when configurations needed for changes, like if we want a new field or if we want a new piece of automation, that administrator would be the one who would put all of that together.
00:03:09.840 --> 00:03:18.080
And so it's very much like having your own dedicated software developer or um resource, but they're on the company payroll, right?
00:03:18.240 --> 00:03:27.759
The other piece of that is that maybe you don't want a dedicated administrator, maybe you want to hire a contractor to come in and help you get set up, and then you just kind of run with it, right?
00:03:28.000 --> 00:03:43.439
There's a whole ecosystem of partners like me that will help you implement Salesforce, that will help you figure out okay, well, this thing comes pre-built in such a way, but it's like 40% actually different than what how we do it.
00:03:43.680 --> 00:03:53.919
And so as a consultant, I would essentially manipulate Salesforce to do the thing that you do while still maintaining the fundamentals of the platform to bring value to the customer.
00:03:54.240 --> 00:03:56.479
So it's it's extraordinarily dynamic.
00:03:56.560 --> 00:04:06.479
And what I like about it and what I've always kind of advocated for in my own community of professionals and people getting into it, is it's accessibility, right?
00:04:06.719 --> 00:04:10.159
It is extremely accessible for anyone to get into.
00:04:10.319 --> 00:04:13.039
It takes a lot of self-uh taught work.
00:04:13.360 --> 00:04:17.600
So you don't need to be a computer graduate or anything like that.
00:04:17.920 --> 00:04:22.800
I would say that most of the people I've worked with who are, I mean, I know my background is not in computer science.
00:04:22.959 --> 00:04:26.639
My background's in environmental uh policy and economics.
00:04:26.800 --> 00:04:44.800
But I really I was into data from a research standpoint many years ago, and I just fell into using Salesforce, and because it is so customizable, uh, the role that I had back in Philly required the program I was running to do something that I didn't know how to make happen.
00:04:44.879 --> 00:04:47.279
But we had this tool, and I just kind of forced it.
00:04:47.360 --> 00:04:48.879
I willed it to my bent it to my will.
00:04:49.199 --> 00:04:50.480
And that tool was Salesforce.
00:04:50.639 --> 00:04:51.680
That's right, yeah, that's right.
00:04:51.839 --> 00:04:52.879
And I was the program manager.
00:04:52.959 --> 00:05:00.079
I ran, I had a staff of 15, and you know, we were out there doing Obama's work out there and energy efficiency and weatherization, and it was really cool.
00:05:00.240 --> 00:05:03.759
And we were using Salesforce to to basically manage the program.
00:05:03.920 --> 00:05:09.519
Now, I didn't want to get into Salesforce, my background was in this other space, but I just used it as a tool.
00:05:09.920 --> 00:05:10.720
Just another software.
00:05:10.879 --> 00:05:12.800
It's another it's yeah, it's what am I gonna do with this?
00:05:12.959 --> 00:05:13.439
I just used it.
00:05:13.519 --> 00:05:15.680
Okay, you know, I'm done with it, I'm gonna go to something else.
00:05:15.839 --> 00:05:26.000
And that's when I moved to Portland because when the program ended, and I got a call from a firm in Portland who said, Hey, we are using Salesforce in one of our energy efficiency programs.
00:05:26.240 --> 00:05:31.199
Would you fly out here for six months and help us build out this piece of functionality?
00:05:31.279 --> 00:05:33.360
And I remember thinking, like, I can't do that.
00:05:33.600 --> 00:05:34.639
What are they talking about?
00:05:34.800 --> 00:05:35.759
I can't build that shit.
00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:42.800
But I said, you know, the funny part, uh, I was making on a salary about$38,000 a year as a program manager.
00:05:42.879 --> 00:05:46.639
And when the recruiter in Portland said, we'll pay you$55,000.
00:05:47.360 --> 00:05:48.399
You didn't think twice.
00:05:48.560 --> 00:05:50.959
I said, Oh, okay,$55,000, that sounds great.
00:05:51.199 --> 00:05:51.519
Of course.
00:05:51.759 --> 00:05:54.160
You know, and I didn't, we just kept saying$55,000, okay.
00:05:54.319 --> 00:05:58.959
And my assumption was it was$55,000 a year, prorated at six months because they wanted me there for six months.
00:05:59.120 --> 00:06:01.519
What he was saying was$55 an hour.
00:06:02.399 --> 00:06:12.720
And so when I got the offer letter, it said, uh, you know, you'll be on as a temporary employee, W4, blah, blah, blah, blah, to rate$55, an hour, equivalent of$114,500 a year.
00:06:12.879 --> 00:06:14.879
I thought, there's no way that this is real.
00:06:15.040 --> 00:06:15.600
This isn't right.
00:06:15.680 --> 00:06:17.839
And of course, I called the recruiter, I said, What's going on?
00:06:17.920 --> 00:06:19.040
And he said, What do you mean what's going on?
00:06:19.120 --> 00:06:19.519
Do you want to do this?
00:06:19.600 --> 00:06:21.839
I said, Yeah, well, well, now I want to, you know.
00:06:22.079 --> 00:06:30.800
Uh it was shocking because it was, it was, I was exposed to a sliver of the market that was had very, very high demand.
00:06:31.040 --> 00:06:39.199
And I it it was a learning lesson for me because I I really saw that dynamic between labor demand and labor availability.
00:06:39.360 --> 00:06:44.240
And there just wasn't as many, you know, uh consultancies that were starting to pop up.
00:06:44.399 --> 00:06:48.160
There just wasn't that many people who were good at building it out.
00:06:48.480 --> 00:06:49.759
Is the demand still exist?
00:06:50.000 --> 00:06:50.319
Oh, yeah.
00:06:50.399 --> 00:06:51.680
I mean, I wouldn't be in business if it didn't.
00:06:51.839 --> 00:06:53.519
And they still pay 55 an hour?
00:06:53.680 --> 00:06:54.720
They pay more than that.
00:06:54.959 --> 00:07:05.839
Oh well, you go and you go into the um into the space and as as a you know, an independent consultant like like myself, and you're easily billing between you know probably one and two hundred an hour.
00:07:06.160 --> 00:07:06.399
Whoa.
00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:08.319
Yeah, it's it's very good.
00:07:08.639 --> 00:07:10.959
What size companies usually hire after the company?
00:07:11.600 --> 00:07:13.600
Every size, every every size.
00:07:13.839 --> 00:07:22.399
So you know, right now I'm working with um a small nonprofit uh that's basically a startup, and I'm doing an implementation for them.
00:07:22.720 --> 00:07:33.839
Uh one of the really nice parts about nonprofits and Salesforce is that Salesforce will donate 10 free licenses to nonprofits at no cost for the whole the whole shebang.
00:07:34.079 --> 00:07:39.279
Uh and that's that's about a$16,000 uh annual value because the licenses are not cheap.
00:07:39.360 --> 00:07:42.480
The licenses are about$150 per user per month.
00:07:42.720 --> 00:07:42.879
Okay.
00:07:43.199 --> 00:07:50.000
So that could if you've got 10 users and it's$150 a piece per month, uh, what's the math on that?
00:07:50.079 --> 00:07:51.439
You're at like$17,000 a year.
00:07:51.600 --> 00:07:52.480
And that's just a habit.
00:07:52.560 --> 00:07:55.920
That's not even the cost and time it would take to make it the way you want it.
00:07:56.000 --> 00:07:57.839
And so the nonprofits get this break.
00:07:58.079 --> 00:08:01.680
So folks like me can come in and say, okay, here's what are you doing?
00:08:01.839 --> 00:08:07.360
Let's build out a product on the platform for you to use to meet your mission as an organization.
00:08:07.519 --> 00:08:16.240
And it's so ubiquitous now in the nonprofit space that Salesforce has built products specifically for nonprofits because they can see everything that guys like me are building.
00:08:16.480 --> 00:08:20.480
Do you need any kind of certification before a company would hire you?
00:08:20.639 --> 00:08:21.279
How does it work?
00:08:21.680 --> 00:08:29.199
There is there is a uh a basic certification, uh, the Salesforce Administrator certification that is sort of the gateway.
00:08:29.360 --> 00:08:35.200
For many years, that's no one would even, and that's still true, you would not be able to get hired unless you had the certification.
00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:37.279
And that's a certification, it it's difficult to get.
00:08:37.679 --> 00:08:39.200
You get it from Salesforce itself?
00:08:39.440 --> 00:08:39.759
It does.
00:08:39.840 --> 00:08:45.840
They they have uh their own test, they have a third party that uh manages the testing, credentialing, the whole thing.
00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:51.279
So now, I mean, when they when I started out, I think they had like five or six certifications, and now they've got like 50.
00:08:51.360 --> 00:08:53.120
I mean, it's pretty it's pretty significant.
00:08:53.200 --> 00:08:53.600
But that's it.
00:08:53.759 --> 00:09:01.840
But if somebody wants to break in, they can work as an assistant or volunteer to work with somebody, get familiar with it, and then apply for the certificate?
00:09:02.240 --> 00:09:20.080
What ends up happening a lot more often is that people see the starting salaries of people who have uh a Salesforce admin certification and they just go through all the documentation and study really, really hard, and then they start applying for jobs after they've they've got that first certification.
00:09:20.320 --> 00:09:22.159
And what is the starting salary?
00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:30.000
It ranges, I mean, it really is it's come down a little bit because there are so many more people going into the space than there used to be.
00:09:30.240 --> 00:09:37.039
But you know, with zero to two years experience, you could be starting anywhere between 70 and probably$85,000 a year.
00:09:37.440 --> 00:09:37.840
Whoa!
00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:39.120
Yeah, that is very nice.
00:09:39.360 --> 00:09:40.000
It's not bad.
00:09:40.159 --> 00:09:41.840
And you can grow up to what?
00:09:42.080 --> 00:09:44.960
Uh I know folks, you know, making close to$300,000.
00:09:45.200 --> 00:09:45.600
Whoa.
00:09:45.759 --> 00:09:45.919
Yeah.
00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:47.519
$300,000 a year.
00:09:47.759 --> 00:09:48.000
Yeah.
00:09:48.240 --> 00:10:03.600
Once you get to that technical architect level, which is sort of the top, the top level where you're, you know, sort of the the puppet master, you know, you're pulling all the strings for all, you know, the pieces on a giant enterprise-sized organization, you become very, very valuable.
00:10:03.919 --> 00:10:08.559
So the skills that were required from a beginner would be knowing Excel.
00:10:08.799 --> 00:10:09.360
What else?
00:10:09.679 --> 00:10:27.519
I think uh having a really solid understanding of criteria-based logic, like basic logic, like putting together sort of logical conditions, so that if this thing happens in a certain condition, then this other thing will happen, which is sort of the basis for automation.
00:10:27.679 --> 00:10:32.960
I think understanding the idea of relationships between things, because again, it is a relational database.
00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:35.840
Excel is not really a relational database.
00:10:35.919 --> 00:10:42.480
You can create relationships like between cells across tables, but that's it's very that's very simplistic.
00:10:42.639 --> 00:10:42.960
Right.
00:10:43.200 --> 00:10:44.960
Um, this is much more dynamic.
00:10:45.120 --> 00:10:49.440
I'd say Excel would be, you know, two-dimensional, and something like Salesforce would be like three-dimensional.
00:10:49.759 --> 00:10:52.399
Can you share an example of a project you worked on?
00:10:52.720 --> 00:10:57.360
I've worked a few projects that are are for construction and building uh companies.
00:10:57.759 --> 00:10:58.399
I build stuff.
00:10:58.480 --> 00:11:00.799
I like to, you know, I I told you about my house in Portland.
00:11:00.879 --> 00:11:03.279
I did a lot of work on that place with a buddy of mine.
00:11:03.440 --> 00:11:06.159
And just I like I hate it, but I also enjoy it.
00:11:06.399 --> 00:11:12.720
And I built three different applications to manage the construction process uh for different organizations.
00:11:12.879 --> 00:11:19.759
So one of them was in Portland, it was a nonprofit that built uh low-income housing for uh for folks in town.
00:11:19.840 --> 00:11:22.399
You know, it's they're they're a construction company, right?
00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:25.440
They have all the all the trappings and all the things that need to happen, you know.
00:11:25.519 --> 00:11:39.360
They have their plans, they have all the materials, they have their permits, they have the subs, they've got their different, you know, they've got their plumbers, their electricians, they got to put stuff out to bid, you know, project planning, project statuses, moving things through the through the through the pipeline.
00:11:39.519 --> 00:11:40.320
Yeah, it was a lot of fun.
00:11:40.480 --> 00:11:41.759
That was a really that was a cool one.
00:11:41.840 --> 00:11:43.440
That was uh I enjoyed that project, yeah.
00:11:43.679 --> 00:11:45.919
And you think they're still using the Salesforce that's a good idea.
00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:47.360
I hope they are, yeah, I would imagine.
00:11:47.519 --> 00:11:50.080
I think they're probably it was a lot better than what they had before.
00:11:50.159 --> 00:11:57.679
So So once you design for, let's say, a company like a construction company, the Salesforce to work for them, do they hire you back?
00:11:57.919 --> 00:11:59.360
So yeah, so that's a good question.
00:11:59.519 --> 00:12:13.759
You will often build something, and what the customer begins to realize is that, oh, okay, this is now working the way I want it to work, but you know, six months later, maybe they are doing a new thing or they're doing it a different way.
00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:21.759
That's when they would probably re-re-engage with me to say, hey, we're gonna, we'd really like it if if we're doing this new thing, we'd really like if Salesforce could support it.
00:12:21.919 --> 00:12:27.759
Yeah, that's when I would come in and and either do a redesign of of a particular area or build something completely new.
00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:36.159
So you basically have uh repeated clients that come to you again and again, and you just build enough of a client base and then you'll you'll be set.
00:12:36.399 --> 00:12:42.080
Uh yeah, I mean that's that's the that's the dream, you know, uh, and getting good relationships with the with these clients.
00:12:42.159 --> 00:12:46.720
And many of them do have dedicated internal staff that only work on Salesforce.
00:12:46.960 --> 00:12:59.440
But, you know, you're coming into, you know, you've been in it longer, you're you've got more expertise, you know, you're sort of brought in to uh architect a new solution, help them implement it, uh, you know, teach them best practices and that kind of thing.
00:12:59.679 --> 00:13:03.440
So basically you can work on two or three customers at the same time, correct?
00:13:03.679 --> 00:13:04.399
Oh, easily, yeah.
00:13:04.639 --> 00:13:05.039
Easily.
00:13:05.200 --> 00:13:05.360
Yes.
00:13:05.600 --> 00:13:07.200
Nice, you can make a very nice living.
00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:07.840
Yeah.
00:13:08.080 --> 00:13:11.759
Is there any misconception about people that work with Salesforce?
00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:12.559
Oh, sure.
00:13:13.039 --> 00:13:13.679
Like what?
00:13:14.080 --> 00:13:15.440
Set it straight.
00:13:15.840 --> 00:13:29.519
Uh I mean, I think there are honestly a lot of the misconceptions come from users because you'll have a user who's been at a company who bought Salesforce but then that didn't invest in actually manipulating it to make it work for the company, right?
00:13:29.679 --> 00:13:33.279
So you'll have experiences from users that are like, I hate that thing, I'll never want to use it again.
00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:34.399
It doesn't make any sense to me.
00:13:34.559 --> 00:13:40.000
What's unfortunate is that you can be very bad and you can hide a lot of bad work.
00:13:40.159 --> 00:13:49.039
And because you maybe are on a project for only a month or two, that bad work may not actually ever be known until years later.
00:13:49.200 --> 00:13:51.759
And that's something that I do experience a lot.
00:13:51.919 --> 00:14:04.320
You know, I come into orgs that have been worked on by other consultants or other um, you know, contractors, or maybe uh they did have a dedicated admin who was brand new, was there for a year, and then left after a year.
00:14:04.559 --> 00:14:10.960
Are there any kind of online courses that there's more online courses than you can shake a stick at?
00:14:11.120 --> 00:14:13.039
And do you recommend taking them?
00:14:13.279 --> 00:14:16.320
Yeah, but ultimately it's experience that gets you through it.
00:14:16.639 --> 00:14:23.600
So when you mentioned before that people study before they take the certification uh test from Salesforce, how do they learn?
00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:26.720
Salesforce has a learning uh website or something?
00:14:27.039 --> 00:14:32.240
There is, there's a they have this sort of gamified, um, it's called Trailhead, and it's pretty good.
00:14:32.399 --> 00:14:37.200
I mean, it's it's a uh it will walk you through how to do things, how to build automation.
00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:49.120
The problem is that it's it's not really giving you experience in part because while you will go through the process of building out a complex piece of automation, it will literally give you each and every step to do it.
00:14:49.200 --> 00:14:56.960
So you will have this list of things to do, and then you'll go over here in your org, your trial or demo org, and go build it.
00:14:57.279 --> 00:14:59.120
And you did it, right?
00:14:59.279 --> 00:15:00.399
But you weren't thinking.
00:15:00.559 --> 00:15:05.519
You weren't what got you to the point where you thought it was a good idea to do X, Y, and Z.
00:15:05.679 --> 00:15:09.759
Because the thing is, like anything else, I mean, you can cook turkey five different ways.
00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:10.240
Right.
00:15:10.399 --> 00:15:10.639
Right?
00:15:10.799 --> 00:15:13.360
How you get good at it is by is by doing it.
00:15:13.600 --> 00:15:14.240
And eating it.
00:15:14.399 --> 00:15:15.519
That's exactly right.
00:15:17.360 --> 00:15:19.360
One very important question.
00:15:19.600 --> 00:15:19.840
Okay.
00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:21.039
Is AI.
00:15:21.279 --> 00:15:22.080
Oh, yeah.
00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:23.840
AI can kill your job.
00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:24.799
No, not yet.
00:15:24.879 --> 00:15:25.759
There's not yet.
00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:35.919
Down the road, there's gonna be some incidents where developers, software developers will use AI to actually deploy code, write and deploy code.
00:15:36.080 --> 00:15:38.639
There's gonna be a something's gonna break, there's gonna be a mess.
00:15:38.799 --> 00:15:42.799
And whoever's organization they put that code into, someone's gonna go, who did this?
00:15:42.960 --> 00:15:46.159
And there will be no one answering because it was the AI that did it.
00:15:46.480 --> 00:15:47.759
There will be no one accountable.
00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:51.279
But somebody had to give the order to the AI to put it in, right?
00:15:51.519 --> 00:15:52.399
Not necessarily.
00:15:52.559 --> 00:15:55.039
You can set it up to run itself, right?
00:15:55.120 --> 00:16:00.000
And so ultimately, maybe you could come down to the company that was using this as a tool, right?
00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:13.840
But at the end of the day, AI is not going to be in a position anytime soon, at least from a data governance standpoint, of going into organizations and making changes to data architecture or changing data.
00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:15.840
Like that has to be done by a human.
00:16:16.080 --> 00:16:16.480
Why?
00:16:16.720 --> 00:16:19.759
Because we have to be held accountable to someone, okay, not something.
00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:20.159
Okay.
00:16:20.480 --> 00:16:22.159
I can't take an AI agent to court.
00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:24.559
The other thing is that the AI is not that good.
00:16:24.799 --> 00:16:25.600
Not yet.
00:16:25.840 --> 00:16:30.639
It's really not, and it's already starting to hit limits on what it can get good at.
00:16:30.879 --> 00:16:34.320
And so what I use it for is very, very different.
00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:37.679
I I do use it for like a gut check, you know.
00:16:37.759 --> 00:16:45.840
So I'll have a design idea, I'll have a way of how I would do something, and I will put that into the AI and see what it comes back with.
00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:46.240
Okay.
00:16:46.399 --> 00:16:52.240
And it will, it will, sometimes it comes back with 80% of what I wanted, and this other 20% is garbage, right?
00:16:52.480 --> 00:16:55.039
And that's pretty much the the ratio, I think.
00:16:55.200 --> 00:17:00.080
I've used it a couple times just to test it and say, how would I do this thing in this technical environment?
00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:01.600
And it will give you 20 steps.
00:17:01.679 --> 00:17:04.400
And by step 13, it's just making it up.
00:17:04.720 --> 00:17:10.640
So AI is threatening, not threatening you, it actually could help you be your consultant in a way.
00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:11.440
It could.
00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:17.759
And then you get some ideas that you didn't think about, maybe, or whatever, but then you go, you change it, and you implement it.
00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:18.400
That's right.
00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:22.400
And the one I did build, uh, so I don't, again, I told you, I don't write code.
00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:27.440
I can't look at you at a set of code and go, oh, that's Python, or that's Ruby, or that's React, right?
00:17:27.519 --> 00:17:28.400
I can't do that.
00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:30.480
But I did have an idea for a product.
00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:32.079
I went into an AI.
00:17:32.400 --> 00:17:35.680
So when you say product, you mean for an automation, right?
00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:37.519
No, and I had an idea for a product.
00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:38.319
Actual product.
00:17:38.640 --> 00:17:39.359
An actual product.
00:17:39.519 --> 00:17:39.839
Okay.
00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:47.359
And I said, I there's a tool called Claude, which is another, there's ChatGPT, there's Claude, there's a whole bunch of different services.
00:17:47.680 --> 00:17:47.839
Right.
00:17:48.160 --> 00:17:51.680
And so I started to interact with Claude about my idea.
00:17:51.759 --> 00:17:54.480
And Claude said, Oh, yeah, we can do this.
00:17:54.640 --> 00:17:56.799
Here's how we can put this together.
00:17:57.119 --> 00:18:04.160
And so I began building this product on Python, which is a language I have no idea how to use.
00:18:04.319 --> 00:18:06.000
I told it I had no idea how to use it.
00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:08.079
And I said, okay, here's what we're gonna do.
00:18:08.319 --> 00:18:08.799
Wow.
00:18:09.039 --> 00:18:16.640
And it helped me figure out how to get on a remote server to run the script, which I didn't even understand that architecture until it started to explain it to me.
00:18:16.720 --> 00:18:18.960
And then I realized, oh, okay, I need a remote server.
00:18:19.039 --> 00:18:20.960
I can get a test server from Google.
00:18:21.119 --> 00:18:22.640
We're gonna use Python.
00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:33.759
Okay, I have to load all these libraries into this code base, and then this Python script is going to do the thing that I want it to do with this other service, with the Gmail service.
00:18:33.920 --> 00:18:39.599
And so it's probably 400 lines of Python, and I wrote it, and the product works.
00:18:39.759 --> 00:18:41.200
And it works very well.
00:18:41.359 --> 00:18:42.640
Now here's the thing, Mara.
00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:43.599
I did all the work.
00:18:43.680 --> 00:18:44.000
Uh-huh.
00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:46.400
It didn't write it, there were several iterations.
00:18:46.480 --> 00:18:49.920
It would give me snippets of code, I would test it, maybe it worked, maybe it didn't.
00:18:50.079 --> 00:18:54.319
If it didn't work, I'd check the error, it would tell me, oh, okay, this is why that error is happening.
00:18:54.559 --> 00:18:55.440
Try this code, right?
00:18:55.759 --> 00:18:56.960
It's an iterative process.
00:18:57.119 --> 00:19:07.599
By the end of it, I learned so much about Python and remote servers and different tokens for different services and different APIs I had never worked with.
00:19:07.759 --> 00:19:13.920
Such that if I had to do it two to three to I don't know, probably five more times, I would be using the AI less and less.
00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:14.480
Okay.
00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:17.279
So it's not this which is It's a learning tool for you.
00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:19.839
It's a and I do think it could be a learning tool for most people.
00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:24.000
I think that people walk into it thinking it's gonna do this thing for me.
00:19:24.160 --> 00:19:24.640
It's not.
00:19:24.799 --> 00:19:34.160
Well, all Chat GPT and Claude and a lot of these services are now, in my opinion, they're very much what we wanted the internet to be for the past 25 years.
00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:34.720
Right.
00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:38.400
And so, as a tool to learn, that's definitely where I see it going.
00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:38.799
Yeah.
00:19:38.880 --> 00:19:42.400
What will happen if another software like Salesforce will come on the market?
00:19:42.559 --> 00:19:46.559
Are you in danger of losing your work and because people will switch?
00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:50.160
The reason that I'm always going to have work in the Salesforce space is because it's open source.
00:19:50.319 --> 00:19:52.000
All these other products are not open source.
00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:52.480
Right.
00:19:52.640 --> 00:19:58.000
If you want something changed, you gotta make a phone call to the account executive and say, hey, I need and there's some things you can do.
00:19:58.079 --> 00:19:59.759
I don't mean that to be, you know, it's like a blank.
00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:01.599
So most likely to stay.
00:20:01.839 --> 00:20:09.920
Yeah, I mean, if there's and if there's another platform out there that pops up that's open source, you know, yeah, there's probably a high likelihood that, you know, people will move to that one.
00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:11.519
So, last question.
00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:14.880
What would you advise somebody that wants to get into it?
00:20:15.119 --> 00:20:18.799
I'd have them ask themselves why do they want to get into it?
00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:25.519
Because if you want to get into it for the money alone, it's gonna be very hard if you don't already have the aptitude for it.
00:20:25.759 --> 00:20:31.039
I would say get into it because there are fundamental elements of it that you find very interesting.
00:20:31.359 --> 00:20:36.880
Then say, okay, I'm ready to commit to this because I know if I get to the end, I can have I can make a very good living.
00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:38.000
Excellent.
00:20:38.240 --> 00:20:39.359
Thanks a million.
00:20:39.519 --> 00:20:42.480
I've learned about something I had no clue about.
00:20:42.799 --> 00:20:47.200
Well, if you ever want to talk more about it, Marat, please, you're more than welcome.
00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:48.960
This was really interesting.
00:20:49.279 --> 00:20:50.559
Great, this is fun.
00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:51.759
I love talking about it.
00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:54.559
Okay, that's a wrap for today.
00:20:54.720 --> 00:21:00.160
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00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:04.000
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00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:05.839
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00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:12.480
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