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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Kyle Stowers, and you're listening to Fish On First.
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Speaker 2: All righty, episode 123 of Fish Unfiltered.
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Speaker 3: The Miami Marlins currently find themselves two and a half games out of the final. National League wildcard spot. As we're recording, the Phillies and Diamondbacks are currently playing. Marlins set to face the Kansas City Royals in Game 2 of the three-game set. Marlins going for the serious win here with Isaac Azut, Eli Sussman. We have a great interview with Joe Mack on the back half of this episode, so as always, make sure to like, subscribe, give us a five-star review on whatever audio platform you're listening on. And it was a very interesting weekend with the wraparound series, so this weekend turned into bled into Monday for the Marlins against the Washington Nationals. One of the series that you probably would have assumed would have been the one where they took most advantage of the opposing team to gain some ground in this race is the one where they kind of took the biggest steps back. And thankfully for the Marlins, it almost didn't affect them at the end just because of the Padres and the Diamondbacks kind of blowing away, you know, losing games. So Isaac, where do you think this team stands? You know, this is a Tough position to be in, regardless of how you put it. The Marlins, who started talking about this urgency, wanted urgency going into this season, are really going to have to implement that now. But the way that they're managing this team, the way that the roster is currently constructed, just, I don't know, doesn't feel like a playoff team. One with Leo Jimenez, Jared Stern, and Brian Alvarado on the roster doesn't give me much of a playoff feel.
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Speaker 4: Whoa, whoa.
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Speaker 5: All right.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with the first and the third name there. Cerna, let's see what he can do. But I am totally with you. It's not screaming lots of confidence here with this roster. But no, and I would argue that losing three out of four, despite the Padres losing as well, it had a big impact because they arguably maybe could have been tied for that third wildcard spot had they just won three out of four rather than losing three in D.C. Obviously, the Nationals came in with a chip on their shoulder, having been swept at the hands of the Marlins. So they obviously wanted to not some revenge there but yeah going into the series against the royals well entering this seven game stretch with the nationals and royals i was saying they needed to win five go five and two however you do it and unfortunately it's not going to be possible with best case scenario you sweep the royals you go four and three and you head into a really really tough stretch of scheduling here with the cubs coming in for the weekend you're gonna have the dodgers not so far away you're gonna have to travel to arizona have to travel to san diego But the good news is that all these teams are ahead of you in the race. So you do have an opportunity to make up significant ground here. So we're going to have to see. But it starts here with Yuri and Sandy going on Wednesday, Sandy on Thursday. Hopefully you sweep the Royals, and then we can start, I guess, talking a little bit more seriously about what needs to happen in order to make the postseason.
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Speaker 3: There's a lot of battle I want to talk about with the team. But the one good I want to talk about, Eli, either you wrote about this or we're going to write about this, is the starting pitching. The starting pitching over this month has actually been really good. It's been the combo of Sandy, Yuri, Gusto, Phillips, and Junk. The one guy I want to start with is Gusto. Ryan Gusto finished the month of August with an ERA of 185 or 166. This guy, Clayton McCullough, really spoke highly about saying that when it comes to the jump from year to year, Gusto probably made the biggest of the jumps, and so far that's been the case, and he's he's having a good year like when you look at the overall numbers he's having a good year and and the month of august certainly was good for him um the only thing that is kind of holding him back is clayton mccullough himself where the marlins are not letting him go the third time through the order if he's through five under 70 pitches he's out of the game and you know we saw that on the monday game against the nationals he was under 80 pitches something like that and they took him out of the game in the fifth inning and the bullpen comes in and blew it um Talk about gusto, what's made him so good, the rotation as a whole, and just the management of these pitchers. Because we saw this with Tyler Phillips, too, in Game 1 against the Royals, where he threw five shutout innings of one-hit ball, and he got taken out. It ended up working out for the Marlins, but still, I mean, in any other situation against a better team like the Cubs, the Dodgers, shoot, even the Mets with Soto again, like, you're not, that's not going to always work.
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Speaker 6: Yeah.
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Speaker 5: With, with gusto, even last year, I guess what was somewhat intriguing when they acquired him is just having a really deep pitch mix. It's just that it was, it wasn't clear which of those picture pitches was going to be able to put guys away. And this year that forcing fastball has emerged as that put away pitch and his ability to locate that pitch as well above the zone that really showed up in.
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Speaker 1: His last start, especially. Yeah.
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Speaker 5: So he's, he looks really an interesting piece of this team. Definitely much improved from where he was last year. And as you said, it wasn't just his last start. This has been, a pretty long trend now. And as a guy that they were only using in very short spurts when he was initially called up now, it's closer to being a conventional starter, but still not quite there at all.
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Speaker 1: So it's in the Marlins defense. You know, this is kind of the line.
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Speaker 5: That you have to walk with these guys where you, if you leave them in longer in the game, then their effectiveness is probably going to drop off at the same time. This Marlins bullpen is not in a situation where you should be putting this much on their plate. When he Fairbanks, when they're been without Anthony Bender for months, It's such an inexperienced group. I like the rookie relievers that they have right now in Josh Eckness and Jack Ralston, but the fact that you're really leaving up to them to decide the game in this most recent occasion below a game, I think that's when you have a guy that's on the mound and really dealing, as you kind of noted, with both him and Phillips, not just pitching well, but really cruising in their outings. I think that's a situation where there's not an easy decision. There's not like, But I would say that in both cases, you worry about there being some drop-off if you leave them in deeper into the game. That's a chance that you have to take at this point in the season when they're performing that well and that consistently. So I would like to see them push deeper than they are at this point. When they're managing this way at this stage of the season, I'm not too optimistic about there being much of a change in approach there, just given how successful they've been when they've been on the mound. That's kind of been this team's philosophy, especially these last couple of years, where they are willing to call in any fresh arm from the bullpen rather than going with a starter three times through the lineup if that starter is not somebody that they have unconditional trust in. So, yeah, I just don't think it's going to change very much. I understand the complaints about it, and I personally kind of lean on your side where I'd like to see those guys being pushed a little bit deeper given how immensely successful all three of those guys have been being junk and gusto and Phillips over the last month or so. I just, I have to believe that we're going to continue to see the same sort of style moving forward.
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Speaker 6: If I had to guess.
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Speaker 2: It seems to me that it's just trying to get ahead of it. They just want to avoid that issue to come up where, where I guess if gusto struggles in the sixth or seventh inning, they just want to avoid that altogether. But you mentioned it, the toll that it's going to take on this bullpen on this relatively young and inexperienced bullpen. I think that's a major issue here. And, What if for some reason, I understand how unlikely it is, but what if Gusto could give you eight? Oh my God, that sets you up great in multiple ways. It also gives you confidence. Oh my God, you have a third guy that can really go deep into ballgames. So, I mean, they're just not even giving them the opportunity or at least let him get into trouble, but they just want to avoid the trouble altogether. And so I understand it. In a playoff game, I could sort of see it as well, but there's still a month left. You got a lot of innings to patch together here and you don't have really any solidified starting pitching health on the way. So, you know, if a guy is through five shutout and under 60 pitches, it's hard to argue taking him out at this stage in the season. But like you said, I don't foresee it changing anytime soon, unfortunately. Just the way the game is played these days, unless your name is Sandy or Yuri in this organization.
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Speaker 3: Marlins have two more games against the Royals. Yuri first, then Sandy. But the day before that, the Marlins had to make their September call-ups. Graham Pauly and Bradley Blalock.
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Speaker 6: Got called up.
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Speaker 3: Not the flashy... Ethan Salas or Lazaro Montez or Yolanda Morales that these other teams made. Why don't we go with like a, I guess they're quote unquote vet, you know, quadruple A guy kind of like he's been up and down a lot, but there is a little thing with this one. There are little notes. So I believe Eli, you could talk us through this one, take us through this one, but it probably gets sent down. He's gonna have to be DFA'd, right? That's, that's the situation there. Blaylock still has his, I believe has one option left. So I don't know exactly what the case is with him, but he is, expected to at some point make his uh marlins debut he was acquired from the rockies earlier in the offseason in exchange for like a minor league i think it was jake brooks um so just you know paulie already made his impact had one of his best days offensively of his career for rbi had the home run big reason why the marlins won and who knows for some reason september grand paulie is something else.
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Speaker 5: Yeah he's as kind of covered there he's been sent down and brought up, sent down and brought up, sent down and brought up, sent down, brought up, sent down and brought up again. And they made a relatively recent rule change to this in the last five years where you can only be optioned five separate times within any one of your option years. And so they've already sent him down at the maximum five times already. He's going to be on this roster the rest of this regular season. This is a make or break month for Graham Pauly. So I'd like to see him. being given the playing time to prove it one way or the other, just because we saw some upside from him last year. year both offensively and especially defensively where he's the best fit for for that semi-regular third base job and it doesn't mean keeping Javier Sanoja out of the lineup because Sanoja has been amazing for them a long stretch of the season so Sanoja playing there against lefties and Finding difference, especially with Xavier Edwards out, it's not a problem to find spots for Sonoha anywhere around the field on a close to everyday basis moving forward.
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Speaker 1: So I feel like that makes a lot of sense on paper.
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Speaker 5: Now we just need Pauly to perform because to this point, he has not hit very much at all this regular season with the exception of Tuesday night. That being the exception, that was a season high in RBIs, a season high in total bases for him. He hasn't even had a single game like that until now. And at AAA, he was fine. But at this point, you really can't glean much from AAA numbers. This is a guy that's been at that level for several years on and off at this point. It's a sink or swim situation very much for Graham Pauly here, a guy that we had pretty high hopes for entering this season. And now you just want to see enough to justify carrying him on the 40 man moving forward. And I think he'll show enough in that period of time to do that, just given that they do have some other very expendable players on this 40-man roster right now. And as for Blaylock, not a ton to say there as a guy that he's been the one constant in their AAA Jacksonville rotation. Looking this up, so many moving pieces there. He's the one guy every single week he's made a start down there. And in a lot of those weeks, he's gotten blown up. He's just a guy that throws strikes, but is very hittable. He had a huge home run problem in the major leagues the last couple of years. And that has continued to a decent extent, even at the AAA level this year. That's why he hasn't gotten an opportunity until now. So for him, it kind of ties into what we were complaining about on the pitching management side, where he at least is going to give you innings because he's fully stretched out as a starter. I think he's just there for that one particular purpose moving forward in games that are pretty lopsided one way or the other. He's going to be that mop-up guy, especially during this stretch where they're still more than a week away from their next off day.
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Speaker 1: So nothing too flashy there. As you said, other teams have sexier call-ups.
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Speaker 5: And to be fair, some of the guys we were most hyped about entering the season from a prospect standpoint are already up with a big league team or they're already hurt. So this is, Paulie is certainly the one here that I'm more, I'm going to be watching very closely down the stretch of this season.
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Speaker 3: I think you're wrong. I think the guy you're going to be watching most closely is the one they called up the day before. Tomorrow's called up Jared Cerna. who to Eli's thought was a top 30 prospect, constantly defending him, and he finally gets a shot. I said the day before that I would have been stunned if this man got called up, and lo and behold, Jared Serna is in the starting lineup for the Marlins on Wednesday against the Kansas City Royals. I would go to Eli, but I'm going to go to Isaac here to switch it up. Isaac, this is a guy who the Marlins acquired in the Jazz Chess Junior trade. It was a three-player trade. Serna, Ramirez, or another Ramirez. One of the Ramirez's is up. Now Serna's up. So when I got here, he looked really, really, really good in that double-A stint with the Marlins. Just hasn't been able to replicate that. But provides some versatility. All fast player. Like, I don't really think he's much. But he is clearly a guy who they valued enough to put on the 40-man roster. He's kind of like a Sonoha, you know. But, like, not much else to say outside of that. I really don't know how long he'll be here. I was honestly surprised they called him up. Because... They really don't need him. I think Davison would have been a better guy to have up. You could have played Sonoha at second. With Pauly coming up, you could have made your adjustments there where you didn't have to play Leo every day. But thoughts on the call-up, thoughts on what Serna's been able to do so far in the Marlins organization, and what does this guy's future in the next month or two look like?
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Speaker 2: I actually think this one sort of made a little bit of sense.
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Speaker 6: I think they.
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Speaker 2: heard all the complaints, and I think they realized that Leo Jimenez is not exactly what they want right now anyway, and they just cannot continue to roll him out every single day, both offensively and defensively, being so detrimental to the team. So I think they wanted to give someone else a shot that could play middle infield, that could play all three infield spots other than the first base. So I thought it made a little bit of sense. And with regards to Davison, he'll be up soon, before the end of September, obviously. From what I understand, maybe a week or two, he should get another opportunity. close to when Xavier Edwards would be back from the injured list with his thumb sprain. But yeah, Serna was someone we thought had a relatively high floor when he came over in that trade. He was a bona fide second piece in that Jazz Chisholm Jr. trade following Agustin Ramirez. And we thought, oh, hey, maybe this is someone that will always hit for a little bit of average, maybe 10, 15 home run power, and unfortunately just has not performed that well in the Marlins minor league system as of yet. He had a little bit of a minor league, minor hot stretch, here in august and so he was on the 40 man didn't make sense for him to get called up but um expectations are a little bit tempered i'm not sure how much of an impact he will have but against left-handed pitching he should get his fair share of at-bats and i think he could hold his own honestly offensively he's not going to strike out a ton he's he has more power than leo jimenez and he probably is a better fielder than leo jimenez so i think overall it's going to be an upgrade.
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Speaker 3: Eli thoughts on serna thoughts on how the marlins could use him uh in this case and What does this mean for Leo, right? I feel like we haven't talked enough about this Leo Jimenez's tenure, right? We talk about it a lot internally. A lot of fans give their thoughts. But we personally have never really spoken about this guy. Like, this is a guy who the Marlins acquired for nothing, for cash. Maybe two days after the season started, more or less, a weekend. And he's been on the roster ever since. He had one little concussion IELTS stint. But since that, I mean, he's just been here. And he really hasn't done a lot. And the Marlins continue to roll this guy out. every other day and there were times where they're hitting him fourth hitting him fifth in the lineup like what are you expecting from Cerna because you you're you are his big believer and how much longer is Leo Jimenez going to be up here if we're expecting X to be back before the season ends and maybe a potential Davidson call because you can't send down Pauly so they're really limited now who they could send down I'm assuming Cerna would be one of.
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Speaker 1: Those Well, one correction off the top.
00:17:03
Speaker 5: Take a minute while I'm talking to look up Dub Glead because that was the guy they traded.
00:17:08
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, you're right. No, take a second to look it.
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Speaker 5: Up and you'll see for yourself the kind of season that Dub Glead is having. So we'll circle back to you in a moment when I'm done talking. So they did make that trade to acquire him. Isaac kind of covered it on Cerner's usage. They could use him at a few different spots. One of the disappointments to me is that defensively at shortstop, he hasn't been what I thought he would be. I don't think he's really that playable there. I think he's a guy that can bounce around. And he's even played in the outfield spots in the Mexican League. He's a Mexican League superstar. He had an amazing year in the Mexican League over the winter.
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Speaker 1: That gave me just a little bit of hope.
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Speaker 5: But yeah, he's a guy that has the versatility. And I thought it was going to be a better version of Sonoha. I thought it was essentially going to be Sonoha with a little bit more pull power. I thought we'd see slightly more homers to the pull side. with him and that's still in the tank, but it's just, I overestimated the hit tool overall. Like even though he's a guy that makes contact, it's not really at the right angles. It's not hard enough overall to, to find hits. So it's, yeah, it's a guy that I think is, uh, I'm not expecting too much from him, but he will be pulling at several different spots. He gives you something as a pinch runner. He's a guy that has, but it's also not quite as effective in that regard as I thought he would be coming up through the system. So I don't think he's entirely going to take away playing time from Jimenez. There's slightly different positions where Jimenez can place a little bit of first base until if, or when Davison gets that opportunity. And then, yeah, Cerna is just, he's a more useful player off the bench than Jimenez was just because Jimenez wasn't going to give you any slugging off the bench as a pinch hitter.
00:18:41
Speaker 1: And I think with, with.
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Speaker 5: Cerna, at least there's a little, a little bit more because of the speed and the versatility to, to help you late in games potentially. But I think it'll be very, few times that he gets to start. And just with Jimenez overall, he's going to be on this roster the rest of the season. If they were going to cut ties with him, they would have done it sooner. They may do it after the season. If he doesn't have any sort of flashes down the stretch, he'll be on the roster one way or another, even when X gets called back up. Maybe that means pushing Jimenez all the way to the bench. It really just has been surprising the loyalty they've shown for him when they've just been so few of those glimpses of any sort of impact that he's had all season long. But some of that does just speak to the lack of talents from these alternatives, like Serna, like the very forgotten man, Maximo Acosta, who we still haven't seen at the big leagues this year for understandable reasons. The guys behind him haven't really forced the issue that play those infield positions. So I think that is a big factor that we shouldn't overlook. Those guys, Serna included, have disappointed to this point, and that has given Jimenez a lot of job security.
00:19:48
Speaker 3: Alright, the grand reveal, Dub Glead. He has played in high A and double A this year, mostly in double A. In 106 games between both levels, he has 18 home runs. He has a 120 WRC +.
00:20:01
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:20:03
Speaker 3: Not looking good for the Marlins right now. And he has a cool name, so we'll give him that. But We're wrapped up here. We have an interview with Joe Mack. He's had an awesome season so far, especially defensively, how much he's helped the Marlins. Isaac, just quick thoughts on Mack before we get to our interview with him.
00:20:19
Speaker 2: Great work ethic. Great, very intelligent young man. High school catcher. I wanted to touch on this with him. We were a little bit short on time. Just the unlikelihood of a high school catcher developing the way he has. Obviously, it hasn't been a straight road, but it's been successful. He drafted in 2021. one of the longer tenure guys in the organization-ish, homegrown, and the fact that the offense has really truly caught up to the defense and really it's been spectacular to see. And Miami does have their franchise catcher, a budding superstar, as Peter Bendix would say. So we hope you guys enjoy the show. And it's no coincidence that Miami's starting pitching has done a really good job here, especially in the month of August with the help of Joe Mack.
00:21:04
Speaker 6: Alrighty.
00:21:05
Speaker 3: And with that being said, here's our interview with Miami Morales catcher, Joe Mack.
00:21:09
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00:21:59
Speaker 6: I'm along with Isaac Azut.
00:22:01
Speaker 3: We're here with Miami Marlins catcher Joe Mac Joe. Thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule. I know you guys are in the middle of a playoff hunt. How's everything going?
00:22:09
Speaker 6: It's going great. It's going good. Thanks for having me.
00:22:13
Speaker 1: Of course.
00:22:13
Speaker 3: I want to start with that. You guys, you know, in the playoff hunt right now, two and a half games out of that final wildcard spot, just entering this final month of the season. Just what's the feeling like in the clubhouse right now? Does it feel like you guys are in that playoff mindset chase, you know, trying to hunt for one of those final wildcard spots?
00:22:31
Speaker 6: For sure.
00:22:31
Speaker 8: You know, the past couple of games have been, you know, coming down to the wire and we're really playing some good baseball and it feels like it's, you know, the beginning of playoff baseball.
00:22:42
Speaker 6: You know, clubhouse vibes are good, of course.
00:22:44
Speaker 8: And, you know, everybody's going out there and trying, trying to do our best, help the team win in whatever way we can.
00:22:51
Speaker 2: Joe, I want to go back just a little bit and take us to the night.
00:22:54
Speaker 6: I believe it was May 4th. I'm correct.
00:22:56
Speaker 2: Just take us to the night you were called up initially. Oh, what did you, what do you remember the most about that day? And who did you tell first about your major league promotion?
00:23:05
Speaker 8: Um, I remember being pretty tired. Um, but I remember calling my mom and dad, um, first and telling them, um, that I wasn't going to be going back to Jacksonville. So I'm talking with them and, you know, remembering that moment brings up a lot of good, good memories about that. So, um, yeah, I'm just excited to be in the position that we're in now and, You know, all the things that, you know, the team's done that, you know, we've all done to be put in this position.
00:23:34
Speaker 6: So it's very awesome.
00:23:37
Speaker 3: Looking back at that day in May when you debuted against the Phillies up until now, you know, you guys in Kauffman Stadium, just where do you feel like you've improved the most? Where do you still think you maybe need to improve, you know, your game? And obviously you're still a young player. You've got a lot of time left in the league. But just throughout this year, where do you think you've made the most strides?
00:23:55
Speaker 8: I would say on both sides of the plate. Um, first one is blocking. Um, I feel like I've been, uh, a good blocker this year, um, compare comparative to the last couple of years. Um, that is something that, um, I took a lot of pride in and took a lot of work in for the off season and made sure that, um, you know, this year I was going to be a lot better of a blocker. So, um, for that, that aspect, I would say, um, for the defense and then for the offensive side, I would say, um, you know, kind of understanding situations, understanding, you know, certain pitchers and, you know, if it's runners on second and third one out, you know, how are they going to attack me versus nobody on nobody, no out or vice versa, you know, so just kind of understanding both of those aspects and, you know, just improving on both of those.
00:24:44
Speaker 2: Joe, you've had the opportunity to catch a pretty talented staff. And I don't think it's a coincidence that, you know, a lot of these guys are having some of the best years of their career. Is there one pitcher on the staff that you feel you've developed a really strong connection with or a really good camaraderie with? And what sort of makes that relationship work?
00:25:01
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, a lot of the guys I think I have a pretty good relationship with. And, you know, I think one is probably Gusto, Ryan Gusto. We've definitely, like, worked together throughout last year as well and also at the beginning of this year and then throughout, um my big league career so far this year we've just gotten a lot closer um we've gotten we've talked a lot about baseball a lot about what he likes to do um and certain attack plans and things that you know he's good at so um i would i would say ryan gusto is for sure a good candidate.
00:25:39
Speaker 2: You earlier in your minor league career you went through some rough stretches um offensively i'm just curious what did you learn during those rough stretches that you could sort of maybe incorporate uh at the big league level as well whenever you face adversity.
00:25:51
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, you know, I would say this kind of sounds cliche a little bit, but, you know, you're only one swing away. I think that just remembering that and having the confidence in that and knowing that you're doing all the right work and, you know, you might just be getting unlucky or whatever that is, you know, instead of it being, you know, a couple of weeks or, you know, a month, maybe, you know, how can we shorten that? How can we make it only a week or how can we make it only a couple of days instead of it being a prolonged thing?
00:26:20
Speaker 3: Um, well, I guess, I guess when you look back at that time in 23, when, you know, you just finished a season in Beloit, didn't go well for you, probably not what you wanted. Just how tough was that for you? Did you ever think you'd be in this position after that? And just, you know, what, what was that off season going into 24, like for you in terms of just making sure you found a way to bounce back from what happened that previous year?
00:26:41
Speaker 6: For sure. Um, I mean, it's a great question.
00:26:43
Speaker 8: I honestly, it was either going to be, you know, being here or, you know, probably not playing baseball. Honestly, it just it was one of those times where, you know, you're at your lowest of lows and you have so many expectations and you don't do those things. And, you know, it really is a knock in the head. And it was a very big wake up call and, you know, didn't want to have that happen again. So that 2023 to 2024 year in that offseason was mostly like making sure that I'm doing the right stuff for mom spring break. for myself like to make myself the best hitter catcher base runner um all those things that i could possibly be.
00:27:28
Speaker 3: Just talk about this recent stretch of games obviously dropped three out of four against the gnats but you come get you guys come back and you get a huge win against the royals and puts you guys in a really good spot in the wild card just what do you think went wrong in that series against washington and just how big for you guys as a team was it to bounce back against royal team that's been playing some really good baseball recently.
00:27:48
Speaker 1: For sure.
00:27:48
Speaker 8: I mean, you know, knowing that we're in the playoff run and we're in contention of, you know, really having something special here, you know, just keeps us all locked in, keeps us all together, keeps us all working hard and going out there each day, you know, whether we want or not to go out there that day and go out there and try and win. So, you know, it's continuing to get improved, continuing to go out there with, you know, a winning mindset and continuing to to go out there knowing that, you know, we're close and we're right there and, you know, we have the team to do it.
00:28:21
Speaker 6: So it's just going out there and doing it.
00:28:24
Speaker 2: I want to talk a little bit really quick about some ABS stuff, because I remember your major league debut, I believe Kevin and I were both there. You were a little bit tentative in wanting to challenge right away in your first game, which is obviously understandable. I'm curious, how much more comfortable are you with it now, now that you're, I guess, somewhat seasoned in your rookie year?
00:28:42
Speaker 6: For sure.
00:28:43
Speaker 8: I mean, I was definitely nervous to rip it for the first at least two or three games. You know, I didn't really, I guess, want to see myself tap and it be a ball. So I was just kind of a little nervous. But we've done a lot of good work with the ABS system. We've done a lot of training with that. When we go out to the field, have a pitching machine on the mound and just throws balls and strikes, too. And we have to challenge. if we think it's a strike. And that also got my confidence way up as well. And also like the differences between moving up and back with certain hitters to get closer to them and, you know, get the bottom third of the zone and having more confidence of where that zone actually is, I think helped me a lot with being able to just rip the challenges whenever.
00:29:34
Speaker 2: I'm curious, has there been a situation where maybe your pitcher wanted you to challenge? I know the pitchers generally don't, but where he really wanted you to, but you were like, hey, you know what?
00:29:43
Speaker 6: It's off. It's off.
00:29:44
Speaker 2: Are there situations like that?
00:29:46
Speaker 8: I can actually remember specifically. It was actually in Washington the last time we were there. Calvin Fauché was pitching, and he was like, yeah, challenge, challenge. He threw a single up and in.
00:29:58
Speaker 6: He was like, challenge.
00:29:58
Speaker 8: He didn't actually– tap his head so the guy looked back and i was like all right i'll challenge whatever i was like i didn't think it was a strike and then i was well then the umpire said all right pitchers challenging the call and it was a ball i think and at that point on he was like all right i'll leave it up to you yeah i.
00:30:16
Speaker 2: Guess i guess it gets a little bit tough for the pitchers to to figure that out but also going back a little bit you were drafted in 2021 so you're sort of pretty long tenured here in the marlins organization i want to see if there's any differences that you've noticed since Peter Bendix joined the organization and took over the baseball operation department compared to when Kim Ang was running things, just any differences that you've seen organizationally or developmentally?
00:30:38
Speaker 8: Um, I mean, I would say one thing is like, we're, we're very keen on getting better, very keen on, you know, working on what the game's telling us, um, for pitchers, you know, if the pitch isn't working, switch the grips, try it out in the PD or whatever it is and, you know, see if they like it. Um, you know, for, for me as a hitter, as a catcher, you know, it's building off my strengths and, you know, making sure those are really good.
00:31:05
Speaker 6: And then also working on the things that I need improvement on.
00:31:08
Speaker 8: So, um, I would say like the development side behind it has been very, very good.
00:31:18
Speaker 3: Um, Joe, obviously you're well known for your defense. Just where did that come from for you? Who, who kind of told you, you know, not even told you just like the passion for it. Like just knowing like, this is what, you know, you want to be a defensive catcher. You're known as a defensive first catcher. Like where did that come from? Just how, how big has that been for you? You know, just being able to develop that behind the plate. And because since we've gone here, it's, it's been a huge, huge help for this team.
00:31:40
Speaker 6: For sure.
00:31:41
Speaker 8: I mean, throughout my minor league career, I've known that the defensive position is pretty difficult and it takes a lot. And I've, I've seen it where some catchers, would just be in the big leagues or whatever it is just purely because their defense. And, you know, I've always thought to myself, you know, I can, I can do that. And, you know, I want to be the best defensive catcher that I can be so that, you know, I can go out there and help the team out on, you know, the defense side and then let the offense side take over as well when it does. But I would say my coach, catching coach, Chris Briones in, in double a and also in high a.
00:32:20
Speaker 6: As well was really, really good defensively.
00:32:24
Speaker 8: About telling me all that stuff and really really good about emphasizing you know how important defense is and all the work that we put in and all the you know drills that we've done and things that we've you know talked about to figure out you know how am I going to be my best self when I go out there so I would say that he definitely helped me out a ton with that.
00:32:43
Speaker 2: I'm curious Joe what was your Honest initial reaction when down when you're in the minors that, you know, the models were sort of turning towards the direction of not calling pitches or calling pitches from the dugout rather than letting their catchers do it.
00:32:55
Speaker 6: Sure.
00:32:55
Speaker 8: I mean, yeah, at first it was definitely a little weird, a little odd. You know, obviously it's not really normal. It wasn't, you know, even a thought, I guess, in the game. And so when I started getting pitches called for me and all that stuff, it was a little like I was kind of fighting it.
00:33:14
Speaker 6: But more and more that.
00:33:15
Speaker 8: I worked with it and more that I allowed that to like be a part of it and be how it is, you know, the more it was actually like, Oh, wow, wait, this is a lot better. I have a lot less stress that I have to worry about during the game. You know, my, my mental side where it's like, I got to think about each individual pitch. I know I can do that, but it also saves me things that I need to do in order to throw out a guy, block a pitch, frame a pitch, whatever that might be. So, um, I continue to say it and, you know, it's, it, it is, it's how it is. And it's part of our organization. And, you know, I, I've learned to love it.
00:33:53
Speaker 2: And over the years, last one before I let Kevin wrap it up, your favorite catcher growing up defensively to watch as a fan.
00:34:01
Speaker 8: Um, I mean, uh, it was like, I had two, it was, uh, Buster Posey and Yadier Molina.
00:34:07
Speaker 5: Okay.
00:34:07
Speaker 6: Of course. Perfect.
00:34:09
Speaker 3: Can't go, can't go wrong with us. So Joe, thank you so much. We're going to wrap it up here. I know you got, uh, Get ready for a big game in Kansas City. So from Isaac, myself, we'll see you guys on the next one. As always, peace out and go fish.
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Kyle Stowers, and you're listening to Fish On First.
00:00:13
Speaker 2: All righty, episode 123 of Fish Unfiltered.
00:00:15
Speaker 3: The Miami Marlins currently find themselves two and a half games out of the final. National League wildcard spot. As we're recording, the Phillies and Diamondbacks are currently playing. Marlins set to face the Kansas City Royals in Game 2 of the three-game set. Marlins going for the serious win here with Isaac Azut, Eli Sussman. We have a great interview with Joe Mack on the back half of this episode, so as always, make sure to like, subscribe, give us a five-star review on whatever audio platform you're listening on. And it was a very interesting weekend with the wraparound series, so this weekend turned into bled into Monday for the Marlins against the Washington Nationals. One of the series that you probably would have assumed would have been the one where they took most advantage of the opposing team to gain some ground in this race is the one where they kind of took the biggest steps back. And thankfully for the Marlins, it almost didn't affect them at the end just because of the Padres and the Diamondbacks kind of blowing away, you know, losing games. So Isaac, where do you think this team stands? You know, this is a Tough position to be in, regardless of how you put it. The Marlins, who started talking about this urgency, wanted urgency going into this season, are really going to have to implement that now. But the way that they're managing this team, the way that the roster is currently constructed, just, I don't know, doesn't feel like a playoff team. One with Leo Jimenez, Jared Stern, and Brian Alvarado on the roster doesn't give me much of a playoff feel.
00:01:53
Speaker 4: Whoa, whoa.
00:01:54
Speaker 5: All right.
00:01:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with the first and the third name there. Cerna, let's see what he can do. But I am totally with you. It's not screaming lots of confidence here with this roster. But no, and I would argue that losing three out of four, despite the Padres losing as well, it had a big impact because they arguably maybe could have been tied for that third wildcard spot had they just won three out of four rather than losing three in D.C. Obviously, the Nationals came in with a chip on their shoulder, having been swept at the hands of the Marlins. So they obviously wanted to not some revenge there but yeah going into the series against the royals well entering this seven game stretch with the nationals and royals i was saying they needed to win five go five and two however you do it and unfortunately it's not going to be possible with best case scenario you sweep the royals you go four and three and you head into a really really tough stretch of scheduling here with the cubs coming in for the weekend you're gonna have the dodgers not so far away you're gonna have to travel to arizona have to travel to san diego But the good news is that all these teams are ahead of you in the race. So you do have an opportunity to make up significant ground here. So we're going to have to see. But it starts here with Yuri and Sandy going on Wednesday, Sandy on Thursday. Hopefully you sweep the Royals, and then we can start, I guess, talking a little bit more seriously about what needs to happen in order to make the postseason.
00:03:09
Speaker 3: There's a lot of battle I want to talk about with the team. But the one good I want to talk about, Eli, either you wrote about this or we're going to write about this, is the starting pitching. The starting pitching over this month has actually been really good. It's been the combo of Sandy, Yuri, Gusto, Phillips, and Junk. The one guy I want to start with is Gusto. Ryan Gusto finished the month of August with an ERA of 185 or 166. This guy, Clayton McCullough, really spoke highly about saying that when it comes to the jump from year to year, Gusto probably made the biggest of the jumps, and so far that's been the case, and he's he's having a good year like when you look at the overall numbers he's having a good year and and the month of august certainly was good for him um the only thing that is kind of holding him back is clayton mccullough himself where the marlins are not letting him go the third time through the order if he's through five under 70 pitches he's out of the game and you know we saw that on the monday game against the nationals he was under 80 pitches something like that and they took him out of the game in the fifth inning and the bullpen comes in and blew it um Talk about gusto, what's made him so good, the rotation as a whole, and just the management of these pitchers. Because we saw this with Tyler Phillips, too, in Game 1 against the Royals, where he threw five shutout innings of one-hit ball, and he got taken out. It ended up working out for the Marlins, but still, I mean, in any other situation against a better team like the Cubs, the Dodgers, shoot, even the Mets with Soto again, like, you're not, that's not going to always work.
00:04:41
Speaker 6: Yeah.
00:04:41
Speaker 5: With, with gusto, even last year, I guess what was somewhat intriguing when they acquired him is just having a really deep pitch mix. It's just that it was, it wasn't clear which of those picture pitches was going to be able to put guys away. And this year that forcing fastball has emerged as that put away pitch and his ability to locate that pitch as well above the zone that really showed up in.
00:04:59
Speaker 1: His last start, especially. Yeah.
00:05:02
Speaker 5: So he's, he looks really an interesting piece of this team. Definitely much improved from where he was last year. And as you said, it wasn't just his last start. This has been, a pretty long trend now. And as a guy that they were only using in very short spurts when he was initially called up now, it's closer to being a conventional starter, but still not quite there at all.
00:05:20
Speaker 1: So it's in the Marlins defense. You know, this is kind of the line.
00:05:23
Speaker 5: That you have to walk with these guys where you, if you leave them in longer in the game, then their effectiveness is probably going to drop off at the same time. This Marlins bullpen is not in a situation where you should be putting this much on their plate. When he Fairbanks, when they're been without Anthony Bender for months, It's such an inexperienced group. I like the rookie relievers that they have right now in Josh Eckness and Jack Ralston, but the fact that you're really leaving up to them to decide the game in this most recent occasion below a game, I think that's when you have a guy that's on the mound and really dealing, as you kind of noted, with both him and Phillips, not just pitching well, but really cruising in their outings. I think that's a situation where there's not an easy decision. There's not like, But I would say that in both cases, you worry about there being some drop-off if you leave them in deeper into the game. That's a chance that you have to take at this point in the season when they're performing that well and that consistently. So I would like to see them push deeper than they are at this point. When they're managing this way at this stage of the season, I'm not too optimistic about there being much of a change in approach there, just given how successful they've been when they've been on the mound. That's kind of been this team's philosophy, especially these last couple of years, where they are willing to call in any fresh arm from the bullpen rather than going with a starter three times through the lineup if that starter is not somebody that they have unconditional trust in. So, yeah, I just don't think it's going to change very much. I understand the complaints about it, and I personally kind of lean on your side where I'd like to see those guys being pushed a little bit deeper given how immensely successful all three of those guys have been being junk and gusto and Phillips over the last month or so. I just, I have to believe that we're going to continue to see the same sort of style moving forward.
00:07:17
Speaker 6: If I had to guess.
00:07:18
Speaker 2: It seems to me that it's just trying to get ahead of it. They just want to avoid that issue to come up where, where I guess if gusto struggles in the sixth or seventh inning, they just want to avoid that altogether. But you mentioned it, the toll that it's going to take on this bullpen on this relatively young and inexperienced bullpen. I think that's a major issue here. And, What if for some reason, I understand how unlikely it is, but what if Gusto could give you eight? Oh my God, that sets you up great in multiple ways. It also gives you confidence. Oh my God, you have a third guy that can really go deep into ballgames. So, I mean, they're just not even giving them the opportunity or at least let him get into trouble, but they just want to avoid the trouble altogether. And so I understand it. In a playoff game, I could sort of see it as well, but there's still a month left. You got a lot of innings to patch together here and you don't have really any solidified starting pitching health on the way. So, you know, if a guy is through five shutout and under 60 pitches, it's hard to argue taking him out at this stage in the season. But like you said, I don't foresee it changing anytime soon, unfortunately. Just the way the game is played these days, unless your name is Sandy or Yuri in this organization.
00:08:20
Speaker 3: Marlins have two more games against the Royals. Yuri first, then Sandy. But the day before that, the Marlins had to make their September call-ups. Graham Pauly and Bradley Blalock.
00:08:31
Speaker 6: Got called up.
00:08:31
Speaker 3: Not the flashy... Ethan Salas or Lazaro Montez or Yolanda Morales that these other teams made. Why don't we go with like a, I guess they're quote unquote vet, you know, quadruple A guy kind of like he's been up and down a lot, but there is a little thing with this one. There are little notes. So I believe Eli, you could talk us through this one, take us through this one, but it probably gets sent down. He's gonna have to be DFA'd, right? That's, that's the situation there. Blaylock still has his, I believe has one option left. So I don't know exactly what the case is with him, but he is, expected to at some point make his uh marlins debut he was acquired from the rockies earlier in the offseason in exchange for like a minor league i think it was jake brooks um so just you know paulie already made his impact had one of his best days offensively of his career for rbi had the home run big reason why the marlins won and who knows for some reason september grand paulie is something else.
00:09:25
Speaker 5: Yeah he's as kind of covered there he's been sent down and brought up, sent down and brought up, sent down and brought up, sent down, brought up, sent down and brought up again. And they made a relatively recent rule change to this in the last five years where you can only be optioned five separate times within any one of your option years. And so they've already sent him down at the maximum five times already. He's going to be on this roster the rest of this regular season. This is a make or break month for Graham Pauly. So I'd like to see him. being given the playing time to prove it one way or the other, just because we saw some upside from him last year. year both offensively and especially defensively where he's the best fit for for that semi-regular third base job and it doesn't mean keeping Javier Sanoja out of the lineup because Sanoja has been amazing for them a long stretch of the season so Sanoja playing there against lefties and Finding difference, especially with Xavier Edwards out, it's not a problem to find spots for Sonoha anywhere around the field on a close to everyday basis moving forward.
00:10:23
Speaker 1: So I feel like that makes a lot of sense on paper.
00:10:25
Speaker 5: Now we just need Pauly to perform because to this point, he has not hit very much at all this regular season with the exception of Tuesday night. That being the exception, that was a season high in RBIs, a season high in total bases for him. He hasn't even had a single game like that until now. And at AAA, he was fine. But at this point, you really can't glean much from AAA numbers. This is a guy that's been at that level for several years on and off at this point. It's a sink or swim situation very much for Graham Pauly here, a guy that we had pretty high hopes for entering this season. And now you just want to see enough to justify carrying him on the 40 man moving forward. And I think he'll show enough in that period of time to do that, just given that they do have some other very expendable players on this 40-man roster right now. And as for Blaylock, not a ton to say there as a guy that he's been the one constant in their AAA Jacksonville rotation. Looking this up, so many moving pieces there. He's the one guy every single week he's made a start down there. And in a lot of those weeks, he's gotten blown up. He's just a guy that throws strikes, but is very hittable. He had a huge home run problem in the major leagues the last couple of years. And that has continued to a decent extent, even at the AAA level this year. That's why he hasn't gotten an opportunity until now. So for him, it kind of ties into what we were complaining about on the pitching management side, where he at least is going to give you innings because he's fully stretched out as a starter. I think he's just there for that one particular purpose moving forward in games that are pretty lopsided one way or the other. He's going to be that mop-up guy, especially during this stretch where they're still more than a week away from their next off day.
00:11:59
Speaker 1: So nothing too flashy there. As you said, other teams have sexier call-ups.
00:12:03
Speaker 5: And to be fair, some of the guys we were most hyped about entering the season from a prospect standpoint are already up with a big league team or they're already hurt. So this is, Paulie is certainly the one here that I'm more, I'm going to be watching very closely down the stretch of this season.
00:12:19
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00:12:50
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00:13:03
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00:13:20
Speaker 3: I think you're wrong. I think the guy you're going to be watching most closely is the one they called up the day before. Tomorrow's called up Jared Cerna. who to Eli's thought was a top 30 prospect, constantly defending him, and he finally gets a shot. I said the day before that I would have been stunned if this man got called up, and lo and behold, Jared Serna is in the starting lineup for the Marlins on Wednesday against the Kansas City Royals. I would go to Eli, but I'm going to go to Isaac here to switch it up. Isaac, this is a guy who the Marlins acquired in the Jazz Chess Junior trade. It was a three-player trade. Serna, Ramirez, or another Ramirez. One of the Ramirez's is up. Now Serna's up. So when I got here, he looked really, really, really good in that double-A stint with the Marlins. Just hasn't been able to replicate that. But provides some versatility. All fast player. Like, I don't really think he's much. But he is clearly a guy who they valued enough to put on the 40-man roster. He's kind of like a Sonoha, you know. But, like, not much else to say outside of that. I really don't know how long he'll be here. I was honestly surprised they called him up. Because... They really don't need him. I think Davison would have been a better guy to have up. You could have played Sonoha at second. With Pauly coming up, you could have made your adjustments there where you didn't have to play Leo every day. But thoughts on the call-up, thoughts on what Serna's been able to do so far in the Marlins organization, and what does this guy's future in the next month or two look like?
00:14:41
Speaker 2: I actually think this one sort of made a little bit of sense.
00:14:43
Speaker 6: I think they.
00:14:45
Speaker 2: heard all the complaints, and I think they realized that Leo Jimenez is not exactly what they want right now anyway, and they just cannot continue to roll him out every single day, both offensively and defensively, being so detrimental to the team. So I think they wanted to give someone else a shot that could play middle infield, that could play all three infield spots other than the first base. So I thought it made a little bit of sense. And with regards to Davison, he'll be up soon, before the end of September, obviously. From what I understand, maybe a week or two, he should get another opportunity. close to when Xavier Edwards would be back from the injured list with his thumb sprain. But yeah, Serna was someone we thought had a relatively high floor when he came over in that trade. He was a bona fide second piece in that Jazz Chisholm Jr. trade following Agustin Ramirez. And we thought, oh, hey, maybe this is someone that will always hit for a little bit of average, maybe 10, 15 home run power, and unfortunately just has not performed that well in the Marlins minor league system as of yet. He had a little bit of a minor league, minor hot stretch, here in august and so he was on the 40 man didn't make sense for him to get called up but um expectations are a little bit tempered i'm not sure how much of an impact he will have but against left-handed pitching he should get his fair share of at-bats and i think he could hold his own honestly offensively he's not going to strike out a ton he's he has more power than leo jimenez and he probably is a better fielder than leo jimenez so i think overall it's going to be an upgrade.
00:16:04
Speaker 3: Eli thoughts on serna thoughts on how the marlins could use him uh in this case and What does this mean for Leo, right? I feel like we haven't talked enough about this Leo Jimenez's tenure, right? We talk about it a lot internally. A lot of fans give their thoughts. But we personally have never really spoken about this guy. Like, this is a guy who the Marlins acquired for nothing, for cash. Maybe two days after the season started, more or less, a weekend. And he's been on the roster ever since. He had one little concussion IELTS stint. But since that, I mean, he's just been here. And he really hasn't done a lot. And the Marlins continue to roll this guy out. every other day and there were times where they're hitting him fourth hitting him fifth in the lineup like what are you expecting from Cerna because you you're you are his big believer and how much longer is Leo Jimenez going to be up here if we're expecting X to be back before the season ends and maybe a potential Davidson call because you can't send down Pauly so they're really limited now who they could send down I'm assuming Cerna would be one of.
00:17:00
Speaker 1: Those Well, one correction off the top.
00:17:03
Speaker 5: Take a minute while I'm talking to look up Dub Glead because that was the guy they traded.
00:17:08
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, you're right. No, take a second to look it.
00:17:11
Speaker 5: Up and you'll see for yourself the kind of season that Dub Glead is having. So we'll circle back to you in a moment when I'm done talking. So they did make that trade to acquire him. Isaac kind of covered it on Cerner's usage. They could use him at a few different spots. One of the disappointments to me is that defensively at shortstop, he hasn't been what I thought he would be. I don't think he's really that playable there. I think he's a guy that can bounce around. And he's even played in the outfield spots in the Mexican League. He's a Mexican League superstar. He had an amazing year in the Mexican League over the winter.
00:17:41
Speaker 1: That gave me just a little bit of hope.
00:17:43
Speaker 5: But yeah, he's a guy that has the versatility. And I thought it was going to be a better version of Sonoha. I thought it was essentially going to be Sonoha with a little bit more pull power. I thought we'd see slightly more homers to the pull side. with him and that's still in the tank, but it's just, I overestimated the hit tool overall. Like even though he's a guy that makes contact, it's not really at the right angles. It's not hard enough overall to, to find hits. So it's, yeah, it's a guy that I think is, uh, I'm not expecting too much from him, but he will be pulling at several different spots. He gives you something as a pinch runner. He's a guy that has, but it's also not quite as effective in that regard as I thought he would be coming up through the system. So I don't think he's entirely going to take away playing time from Jimenez. There's slightly different positions where Jimenez can place a little bit of first base until if, or when Davison gets that opportunity. And then, yeah, Cerna is just, he's a more useful player off the bench than Jimenez was just because Jimenez wasn't going to give you any slugging off the bench as a pinch hitter.
00:18:41
Speaker 1: And I think with, with.
00:18:43
Speaker 5: Cerna, at least there's a little, a little bit more because of the speed and the versatility to, to help you late in games potentially. But I think it'll be very, few times that he gets to start. And just with Jimenez overall, he's going to be on this roster the rest of the season. If they were going to cut ties with him, they would have done it sooner. They may do it after the season. If he doesn't have any sort of flashes down the stretch, he'll be on the roster one way or another, even when X gets called back up. Maybe that means pushing Jimenez all the way to the bench. It really just has been surprising the loyalty they've shown for him when they've just been so few of those glimpses of any sort of impact that he's had all season long. But some of that does just speak to the lack of talents from these alternatives, like Serna, like the very forgotten man, Maximo Acosta, who we still haven't seen at the big leagues this year for understandable reasons. The guys behind him haven't really forced the issue that play those infield positions. So I think that is a big factor that we shouldn't overlook. Those guys, Serna included, have disappointed to this point, and that has given Jimenez a lot of job security.
00:19:48
Speaker 3: Alright, the grand reveal, Dub Glead. He has played in high A and double A this year, mostly in double A. In 106 games between both levels, he has 18 home runs. He has a 120 WRC +.
00:20:01
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:20:03
Speaker 3: Not looking good for the Marlins right now. And he has a cool name, so we'll give him that. But We're wrapped up here. We have an interview with Joe Mack. He's had an awesome season so far, especially defensively, how much he's helped the Marlins. Isaac, just quick thoughts on Mack before we get to our interview with him.
00:20:19
Speaker 2: Great work ethic. Great, very intelligent young man. High school catcher. I wanted to touch on this with him. We were a little bit short on time. Just the unlikelihood of a high school catcher developing the way he has. Obviously, it hasn't been a straight road, but it's been successful. He drafted in 2021. one of the longer tenure guys in the organization-ish, homegrown, and the fact that the offense has really truly caught up to the defense and really it's been spectacular to see. And Miami does have their franchise catcher, a budding superstar, as Peter Bendix would say. So we hope you guys enjoy the show. And it's no coincidence that Miami's starting pitching has done a really good job here, especially in the month of August with the help of Joe Mack.
00:21:04
Speaker 6: Alrighty.
00:21:05
Speaker 3: And with that being said, here's our interview with Miami Morales catcher, Joe Mack.
00:21:09
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00:21:59
Speaker 6: I'm along with Isaac Azut.
00:22:01
Speaker 3: We're here with Miami Marlins catcher Joe Mac Joe. Thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule. I know you guys are in the middle of a playoff hunt. How's everything going?
00:22:09
Speaker 6: It's going great. It's going good. Thanks for having me.
00:22:13
Speaker 1: Of course.
00:22:13
Speaker 3: I want to start with that. You guys, you know, in the playoff hunt right now, two and a half games out of that final wildcard spot, just entering this final month of the season. Just what's the feeling like in the clubhouse right now? Does it feel like you guys are in that playoff mindset chase, you know, trying to hunt for one of those final wildcard spots?
00:22:31
Speaker 6: For sure.
00:22:31
Speaker 8: You know, the past couple of games have been, you know, coming down to the wire and we're really playing some good baseball and it feels like it's, you know, the beginning of playoff baseball.
00:22:42
Speaker 6: You know, clubhouse vibes are good, of course.
00:22:44
Speaker 8: And, you know, everybody's going out there and trying, trying to do our best, help the team win in whatever way we can.
00:22:51
Speaker 2: Joe, I want to go back just a little bit and take us to the night.
00:22:54
Speaker 6: I believe it was May 4th. I'm correct.
00:22:56
Speaker 2: Just take us to the night you were called up initially. Oh, what did you, what do you remember the most about that day? And who did you tell first about your major league promotion?
00:23:05
Speaker 8: Um, I remember being pretty tired. Um, but I remember calling my mom and dad, um, first and telling them, um, that I wasn't going to be going back to Jacksonville. So I'm talking with them and, you know, remembering that moment brings up a lot of good, good memories about that. So, um, yeah, I'm just excited to be in the position that we're in now and, You know, all the things that, you know, the team's done that, you know, we've all done to be put in this position.
00:23:34
Speaker 6: So it's very awesome.
00:23:37
Speaker 3: Looking back at that day in May when you debuted against the Phillies up until now, you know, you guys in Kauffman Stadium, just where do you feel like you've improved the most? Where do you still think you maybe need to improve, you know, your game? And obviously you're still a young player. You've got a lot of time left in the league. But just throughout this year, where do you think you've made the most strides?
00:23:55
Speaker 8: I would say on both sides of the plate. Um, first one is blocking. Um, I feel like I've been, uh, a good blocker this year, um, compare comparative to the last couple of years. Um, that is something that, um, I took a lot of pride in and took a lot of work in for the off season and made sure that, um, you know, this year I was going to be a lot better of a blocker. So, um, for that, that aspect, I would say, um, for the defense and then for the offensive side, I would say, um, you know, kind of understanding situations, understanding, you know, certain pitchers and, you know, if it's runners on second and third one out, you know, how are they going to attack me versus nobody on nobody, no out or vice versa, you know, so just kind of understanding both of those aspects and, you know, just improving on both of those.
00:24:44
Speaker 2: Joe, you've had the opportunity to catch a pretty talented staff. And I don't think it's a coincidence that, you know, a lot of these guys are having some of the best years of their career. Is there one pitcher on the staff that you feel you've developed a really strong connection with or a really good camaraderie with? And what sort of makes that relationship work?
00:25:01
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, a lot of the guys I think I have a pretty good relationship with. And, you know, I think one is probably Gusto, Ryan Gusto. We've definitely, like, worked together throughout last year as well and also at the beginning of this year and then throughout, um my big league career so far this year we've just gotten a lot closer um we've gotten we've talked a lot about baseball a lot about what he likes to do um and certain attack plans and things that you know he's good at so um i would i would say ryan gusto is for sure a good candidate.
00:25:39
Speaker 2: You earlier in your minor league career you went through some rough stretches um offensively i'm just curious what did you learn during those rough stretches that you could sort of maybe incorporate uh at the big league level as well whenever you face adversity.
00:25:51
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, you know, I would say this kind of sounds cliche a little bit, but, you know, you're only one swing away. I think that just remembering that and having the confidence in that and knowing that you're doing all the right work and, you know, you might just be getting unlucky or whatever that is, you know, instead of it being, you know, a couple of weeks or, you know, a month, maybe, you know, how can we shorten that? How can we make it only a week or how can we make it only a couple of days instead of it being a prolonged thing?
00:26:20
Speaker 3: Um, well, I guess, I guess when you look back at that time in 23, when, you know, you just finished a season in Beloit, didn't go well for you, probably not what you wanted. Just how tough was that for you? Did you ever think you'd be in this position after that? And just, you know, what, what was that off season going into 24, like for you in terms of just making sure you found a way to bounce back from what happened that previous year?
00:26:41
Speaker 6: For sure. Um, I mean, it's a great question.
00:26:43
Speaker 8: I honestly, it was either going to be, you know, being here or, you know, probably not playing baseball. Honestly, it just it was one of those times where, you know, you're at your lowest of lows and you have so many expectations and you don't do those things. And, you know, it really is a knock in the head. And it was a very big wake up call and, you know, didn't want to have that happen again. So that 2023 to 2024 year in that offseason was mostly like making sure that I'm doing the right stuff for mom spring break. for myself like to make myself the best hitter catcher base runner um all those things that i could possibly be.
00:27:28
Speaker 3: Just talk about this recent stretch of games obviously dropped three out of four against the gnats but you come get you guys come back and you get a huge win against the royals and puts you guys in a really good spot in the wild card just what do you think went wrong in that series against washington and just how big for you guys as a team was it to bounce back against royal team that's been playing some really good baseball recently.
00:27:48
Speaker 1: For sure.
00:27:48
Speaker 8: I mean, you know, knowing that we're in the playoff run and we're in contention of, you know, really having something special here, you know, just keeps us all locked in, keeps us all together, keeps us all working hard and going out there each day, you know, whether we want or not to go out there that day and go out there and try and win. So, you know, it's continuing to get improved, continuing to go out there with, you know, a winning mindset and continuing to to go out there knowing that, you know, we're close and we're right there and, you know, we have the team to do it.
00:28:21
Speaker 6: So it's just going out there and doing it.
00:28:24
Speaker 2: I want to talk a little bit really quick about some ABS stuff, because I remember your major league debut, I believe Kevin and I were both there. You were a little bit tentative in wanting to challenge right away in your first game, which is obviously understandable. I'm curious, how much more comfortable are you with it now, now that you're, I guess, somewhat seasoned in your rookie year?
00:28:42
Speaker 6: For sure.
00:28:43
Speaker 8: I mean, I was definitely nervous to rip it for the first at least two or three games. You know, I didn't really, I guess, want to see myself tap and it be a ball. So I was just kind of a little nervous. But we've done a lot of good work with the ABS system. We've done a lot of training with that. When we go out to the field, have a pitching machine on the mound and just throws balls and strikes, too. And we have to challenge. if we think it's a strike. And that also got my confidence way up as well. And also like the differences between moving up and back with certain hitters to get closer to them and, you know, get the bottom third of the zone and having more confidence of where that zone actually is, I think helped me a lot with being able to just rip the challenges whenever.
00:29:34
Speaker 2: I'm curious, has there been a situation where maybe your pitcher wanted you to challenge? I know the pitchers generally don't, but where he really wanted you to, but you were like, hey, you know what?
00:29:43
Speaker 6: It's off. It's off.
00:29:44
Speaker 2: Are there situations like that?
00:29:46
Speaker 8: I can actually remember specifically. It was actually in Washington the last time we were there. Calvin Fauché was pitching, and he was like, yeah, challenge, challenge. He threw a single up and in.
00:29:58
Speaker 6: He was like, challenge.
00:29:58
Speaker 8: He didn't actually– tap his head so the guy looked back and i was like all right i'll challenge whatever i was like i didn't think it was a strike and then i was well then the umpire said all right pitchers challenging the call and it was a ball i think and at that point on he was like all right i'll leave it up to you yeah i.
00:30:16
Speaker 2: Guess i guess it gets a little bit tough for the pitchers to to figure that out but also going back a little bit you were drafted in 2021 so you're sort of pretty long tenured here in the marlins organization i want to see if there's any differences that you've noticed since Peter Bendix joined the organization and took over the baseball operation department compared to when Kim Ang was running things, just any differences that you've seen organizationally or developmentally?
00:30:38
Speaker 8: Um, I mean, I would say one thing is like, we're, we're very keen on getting better, very keen on, you know, working on what the game's telling us, um, for pitchers, you know, if the pitch isn't working, switch the grips, try it out in the PD or whatever it is and, you know, see if they like it. Um, you know, for, for me as a hitter, as a catcher, you know, it's building off my strengths and, you know, making sure those are really good.
00:31:05
Speaker 6: And then also working on the things that I need improvement on.
00:31:08
Speaker 8: So, um, I would say like the development side behind it has been very, very good.
00:31:18
Speaker 3: Um, Joe, obviously you're well known for your defense. Just where did that come from for you? Who, who kind of told you, you know, not even told you just like the passion for it. Like just knowing like, this is what, you know, you want to be a defensive catcher. You're known as a defensive first catcher. Like where did that come from? Just how, how big has that been for you? You know, just being able to develop that behind the plate. And because since we've gone here, it's, it's been a huge, huge help for this team.
00:31:40
Speaker 6: For sure.
00:31:41
Speaker 8: I mean, throughout my minor league career, I've known that the defensive position is pretty difficult and it takes a lot. And I've, I've seen it where some catchers, would just be in the big leagues or whatever it is just purely because their defense. And, you know, I've always thought to myself, you know, I can, I can do that. And, you know, I want to be the best defensive catcher that I can be so that, you know, I can go out there and help the team out on, you know, the defense side and then let the offense side take over as well when it does. But I would say my coach, catching coach, Chris Briones in, in double a and also in high a.
00:32:20
Speaker 6: As well was really, really good defensively.
00:32:24
Speaker 8: About telling me all that stuff and really really good about emphasizing you know how important defense is and all the work that we put in and all the you know drills that we've done and things that we've you know talked about to figure out you know how am I going to be my best self when I go out there so I would say that he definitely helped me out a ton with that.
00:32:43
Speaker 2: I'm curious Joe what was your Honest initial reaction when down when you're in the minors that, you know, the models were sort of turning towards the direction of not calling pitches or calling pitches from the dugout rather than letting their catchers do it.
00:32:55
Speaker 6: Sure.
00:32:55
Speaker 8: I mean, yeah, at first it was definitely a little weird, a little odd. You know, obviously it's not really normal. It wasn't, you know, even a thought, I guess, in the game. And so when I started getting pitches called for me and all that stuff, it was a little like I was kind of fighting it.
00:33:14
Speaker 6: But more and more that.
00:33:15
Speaker 8: I worked with it and more that I allowed that to like be a part of it and be how it is, you know, the more it was actually like, Oh, wow, wait, this is a lot better. I have a lot less stress that I have to worry about during the game. You know, my, my mental side where it's like, I got to think about each individual pitch. I know I can do that, but it also saves me things that I need to do in order to throw out a guy, block a pitch, frame a pitch, whatever that might be. So, um, I continue to say it and, you know, it's, it, it is, it's how it is. And it's part of our organization. And, you know, I, I've learned to love it.
00:33:53
Speaker 2: And over the years, last one before I let Kevin wrap it up, your favorite catcher growing up defensively to watch as a fan.
00:34:01
Speaker 8: Um, I mean, uh, it was like, I had two, it was, uh, Buster Posey and Yadier Molina.
00:34:07
Speaker 5: Okay.
00:34:07
Speaker 6: Of course. Perfect.
00:34:09
Speaker 3: Can't go, can't go wrong with us. So Joe, thank you so much. We're going to wrap it up here. I know you got, uh, Get ready for a big game in Kansas City. So from Isaac, myself, we'll see you guys on the next one. As always, peace out and go fish.
