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AS: From AgExpert,
it's the FCC Knowledge Podcast,
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a show that features
real Canadians in agriculture,
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real stories and real good conversations
about the business of farming.
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I'm your host Aimée Stang.
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AV: I think it gave me a little bit
more confidence to be able to do that,
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a little bit more gumption to say,
"I do know what I'm talking about,"
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because I had those strong
female role models in my life.
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I never felt that I couldn't do something
because I was a female.
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AS: Today, we're tackling
one of my favourite topics, women in Ag.
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I'm joined by Nova Scotian farmer
and a true agent of positive change
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in the Ag industry, Amy VanderHeide.
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Having grown up
on a farm run entirely by women,
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Amy supplied the lessons
she's learned to her own operation
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in the Annapolis Valley,
as well as in her family
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and on the Ag board she's involved with.
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Nine years ago,
Amy and her friend Katie Keddy
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created the Maritime Ag Women's Network
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to build community
and further the conversation
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with and about Women in Ag.
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Amy's currently the chair
of the Chicken Farmers of Nova Scotia,
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and has volunteered her time
on other Ag-related boards,
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including the Do More Ag Foundation.
But why am I still talking?
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Let's let Amy tell us her story.
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How about we start by getting you to tell
us a little bit about your background
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in agriculture and your upbringing?
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AV: I grew up one generation removed
from my grandmother's beef farm,
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but we lived next door,
and she was our after-school babysitter,
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and my aunts were
living at home at the time,
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so we were with them before,
after school, weekends, whenever.
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Whenever we wanted to be there,
we just walked down the road.
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I always say that
I grew up on the beef farm.
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I mean, a farm teaches you life lessons,
and that's where I learned them.
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Grew up in that environment,
and definitely knew that whatever I did
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when I grew up would
involve agriculture somehow.
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AS: So grandma
put you to work on the farm?
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AV: She did. It was more my aunt.
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My grandfather passed away
when I was two months old,
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and the farm went to my grandmother.
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But I had two aunts still living at home
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that were in college
and high school at the time.
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They just kind of continued running it.
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Never a conversation
of whether they should sell the farm.
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So it was my aunts that said,
"All right, we've got to go do chores.
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We've got to go do this
and you're coming with me."
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Or summers when we were being babysat
was spent fencing with my aunts.
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So it was kind of them
that instilled that work ethic to,
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"We have to go get things done and you're
coming along and you're going to help."
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So it wasn't really a question
of whether we were going to do it.
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It was just kind of an expectation.
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And luckily, I loved it,
so I never minded.
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AS: So let's fast forward to now.
Tell us about your farm life.
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AV: My husband, James
and I and his parents
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operate a poultry farm
in the Annapolis Valley, Nova Scotia.
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And then we also have three children.
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Jackson is 16, Warren is 12,
and Clay is 10.
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So they have very much grown up
being involved in the farm as well.
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We also do some cropping.
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And then James and I also own
our own small farm,
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which is just a small
cow calf farm on the side.
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It uses some of the land
that isn't good for cropping
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or use in any other way,
from his parents' farm.
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So we're lucky in that way that
we can kind of use some of their farm
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to help our business grow.
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AS: So your in-laws,
from what I understand,
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they have the poultry farm.
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And then you and your husband
have a beef farm in partnership.
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AV: Yes.
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AS: And then you're eventually going
to take over the poultry farm
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from your in-laws? Is that the plan?
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AV: Yes, that's the plan right now.
I don't see it changing.
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We don't want to do anything else.
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My husband is one of five siblings,
but he's the only one interested
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in continuing in agriculture in any way.
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So it's been him and I
as primary operators.
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And his parents are in their 70s,
still involved with the farm,
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but just lesser physical and visual way.
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They're unable to do
some of the tougher jobs,
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but still very much involved
in the day to day.
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AS: So it was you that brought
over the concept of raising cattle
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to your husband?
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AV: I like the chickens,
but the beef come with certain personality
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and a little bit more hands-off,
but I missed having cattle,
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and luckily, James was all for it.
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We started just raising
a few calves for beef
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and then morphed into
a cow calf operation.
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It's still a lot of work,
especially in the summer
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when you're trying to do 100 other things,
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but we love the cattle
and they're pets to us,
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but they still serve a purpose.
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AS: You learned some important values
from your grandmother and aunts.
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Can you tell us more about those values?
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AV: It taught me to stand up for myself,
to be outspoken, to generally care,
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and to just be a good person
and show up for yourself.
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There is a place for you on the farm
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and there is a place for you
within leadership roles.
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Our grandmothers, or mothers,
were the ones bringing out the meals
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and keeping people fed
and getting kids to school.
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But there's so much more to it.
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Even to my mother-in-law,
she'll say that she's not a farmer,
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but I can tell you that she's kept
this ship afloat for many years.
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She's out there running straw,
getting ready for chicks and in the barn.
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AS: You're quite present
in social media and different Ag circles.
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Your passion for agriculture just
is very well known and shines through.
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What are you in particular
passionate about?
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AV: For me,
it's the education piece of agriculture,
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getting to talk to people who genuinely,
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really don't know
where their food comes from.
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But also just chatting with kids
through Ag in the classroom,
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but also being a co-founder
of the Maritime Ag Women's Network
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with my great friend Katie Keddy,
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and bringing together a community
of like-minded women throughout
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primarily Atlantic Canada, but it's grown.
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We have members
across Canada now and beyond.
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Having that community just online
through Facebook
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has been more than we ever thought
it would be,
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and it's just sometimes mind-blowing
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that we've actually been able to get this
community of women together
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and share conversations
and worries and stresses and successes
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and all that stuff together is great.
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AS: The network.
Where did that come from?
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AV: It came from a weekend in 2015.
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Katie and I had been to
the Atlantic Farm Women's Conference,
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which was held in Halifax.
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And as we were driving home,
and we were talking about the people
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that we'd met that we saw on
social media but didn't really know,
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and you got a chance to meet them.
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And it's a shame when you leave,
that connection is gone until
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either the next conference or the next
thing that brings you together.
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So we were just kind of chatting,
and said,
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"Well,
maybe we'll start a Facebook group
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and invite the people that we met,
and that'll give us a little space
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in the world to connect with them."
And it just grew.
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They invited friends,
their friends invited friends,
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and now we're well over 1000 members.
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AS: The Maritime Ag Women's Network,
this just exploded into something
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that was a really great,
far-reaching network.
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Was there anything else
that surprised you about that?
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AV: Some of the topics of conversations.
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People saying, like, "I need work clothes
and I can't find any that fit me,
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like, can't fit my body type,"
and stuff like that,
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stuff, again, that you don't necessarily
think about all the time.
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And then your brain goes, you know,
I go to my local workwear store.
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There is nothing that's either in a size,
you know, two to eight and doesn't fit me,
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or it doesn't exist.
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Definitely just some
conversation stuff that maybe
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I hadn't experienced myself necessarily.
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But then also, on the flip side,
is also the opportunities
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that it's given for both Katie and I.
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We didn't go into it
expecting any type of recognition,
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and we still don't expect
any type of recognition.
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That's not why we did it.
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But we've been invited to take part
in opportunities like these podcasts,
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conferences and having
all these chances to bring awareness
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a) of the women's network as a whole,
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but also so we can kind of use that voice
and what we've learned
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to connect with more women.
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Having somebody call and say,
"Oh, I know you're a co-founder of this,
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really interested to talk to you."
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It still blows my mind
almost ten years later.
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AS: How do you receive
that when someone says,
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"Okay, you're a female farmer.
We want your perspective on this
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discussion panel or think tank,"
or things like that? Do you embrace that?
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Do you sometimes go,
"Oh, I'm the token female again?"
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Or, where does your mind go?
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AV: Yeah, it felt like that for a while.
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And it kind of got where Katie and I were,
like, "Okay, people have to be sick
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of seeing us and hearing
this over and over again,"
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to the point where we started reaching out
to other women that we had met
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through the Facebook page that we knew
would be great for this situation.
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It's always great to be asked,
and I don't mind doing these things.
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I like it. It gives me a chance
to talk to other people,
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but sometimes the platform isn't quite
where I am comfortable with
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if it's at a different type
of farming conference
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or a horticulture conference
that I'm not involved in that.
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I would rather say,
"Here's someone who's in your sector,
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would benefit from being in that room
in more ways than I would.
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Would love to introduce her
if she's willing to do it."
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And then there's times where you get
an opportunity that you can't pass off.
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It's still going both ways.
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If there's an opportunity that
I can give somebody that little
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boost of confidence and say,
"I think you'd be great for this,"
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I'm definitely going to do it.
And because we need that continuation,
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it can't fizzle out with the two of us.
It has to keep growing
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and keep having more people
to go out and chat.
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AS: I think that's such a great approach.
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You're still embracing the opportunity
to speak your truth
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and share your experiences
and inspire other people.
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And you're also, at the same time,
lifting others up that could potentially
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support these messages
in different rooms and different sectors.
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There's a lot of power in that.
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AV: Yeah, and they have some
different views on things than I do, too.
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So it broadens the conversation.
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If I'm busy, or Katie's busy,
or we've been talked out for that month,
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or whatever it is,
it's great to know we can think
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off the top of our heads now
of five or six different people
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each that would be perfect
for that situation.
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So just meeting all these people
has created that and given that
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platform to lift others up.
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And I think that's not what we expected,
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but has been a really great outcome
of the Maritime Ag Women's Network.
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AS: That's amazing.
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So let's go back
to your upbringing a little bit.
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What did it do for you
in terms of your world view
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on how women
are involved in our industry?
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AV: I didn't realize
when I was growing up on a farm
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that was owned by my grandmother,
how rare that was, first of all,
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and then having the primary operators
being my aunts.
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To me, it was normal.
That's how I grew up.
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And as far as I knew,
that was normal on every farm everywhere.
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But as you grow up
and become more involved,
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and you realize that wasn't the case,
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when I kind of came up
and wanted to be more involved
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and sitting around boardroom tables
full of men,
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and I'm the only woman in the room,
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I think it gave me a little bit
more confidence to be able to do that,
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a little bit more gumption to say,
"I do know what I'm talking about."
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Because I had those strong
female role models in my life,
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I never felt that I couldn't do something
because I was a female.
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I'd grown up seeing these women
take everything on, difficult calvings,
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purchases, everything.
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For me, I could take all of that knowledge
and confidence that I had gained
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from that upbringing
and bring it to the board table.
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AS: That's amazing.
Little Amy, seeing all this happening
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and having no idea that anything
could be possibly different.
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AV: Even growing up, and you hear
news stories and you still hear the term
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male-dominated, as far as I was concerned,
there was no such thing.
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But as you grow up
and you get more involved,
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and you do see that
agriculture is male-dominated,
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that it can be hard to find your place.
230
00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:08,760
But just because I've had that
leadership role in my life by those women
231
00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:10,240
carried me through.
232
00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:12,600
AS: How do you think
your personal experience
233
00:12:12,680 --> 00:12:15,680
inspire other women on the farm?
234
00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:19,760
AV: I think it's representation
and being able to see
235
00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:23,440
that there's another woman in a role
that you would like to take on someday.
236
00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:27,480
Or maybe you've been thinking
about doing something, but it's scary,
237
00:12:27,560 --> 00:12:29,600
or it's not comfortable.
238
00:12:29,680 --> 00:12:31,440
By other people sharing their stories,
239
00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:34,120
and being able to see
that representation out there,
240
00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:36,480
kind of gives you
a little bit more of a boost to say,
241
00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:41,240
"Okay, I know I can do this.
I can try it, I can see how it goes.
242
00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:45,320
But if she's doing it, I can do it too.
Or if they're doing it, I can do it too."
243
00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:48,320
It's just having that representation,
I think that really matters,
244
00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:50,067
and being able to see it.
245
00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:53,760
And I'm not sharing as much on
social media as I used to,
246
00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:56,480
just because it is a huge time suck.
247
00:12:56,560 --> 00:12:58,080
I just don't have it anymore.
248
00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:02,040
I wish I did, but it's not so simple
as posting a picture anymore,
249
00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:06,160
but I still do.
It's being able to take that five minutes
250
00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:09,520
and make that post
and have people message me
251
00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:14,080
or put a comment in that says,
"Thanks for sharing.
252
00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:17,680
I wanted to try this,
glad to know it worked," whatever.
253
00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:22,480
But just being able to share
that little corner of my world
254
00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:25,160
and inspire somebody else
is mind-blowing to me.
255
00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:27,880
I'm just Amy from Nova Scotia,
256
00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:32,520
so to have people recognize me
from as far as away as they do
257
00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,760
because of social media
is crazy sometimes.
258
00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:38,240
AS: It's definitely
opened up a lot of networks
259
00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:40,440
that we wouldn't have had otherwise.
260
00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:44,120
AV: It's that isolation factor too,
where you're on the farm
261
00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:47,920
and you've got kids or you've got
the responsibilities of farming
262
00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,400
that you're not necessarily able to go out
263
00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:52,960
and connect and network
with people as often.
264
00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:57,000
So having that outlet online
and being able to share that story
265
00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:00,320
or that frustration
or success is everything,
266
00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:04,960
and then seeing that representation
from others can inspire somebody else.
267
00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:06,800
AS: You talked about
how important that is to you,
268
00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:10,440
sharing the reality of agriculture,
and it also spreads to other
269
00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:13,160
passions of yours, such as mental health.
270
00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:17,480
AV: On social media, one day, decided
I was going to just make a post about
271
00:14:17,560 --> 00:14:22,120
how mental illness affects me.
I do have seasonal affective disorder.
272
00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:25,120
September, October,
and it starts to get darker,
273
00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:29,520
and my mind starts to get darker,
and I go into hibernation mode.
274
00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:30,880
And I just felt like sharing that.
275
00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:35,520
There's other ways I've been affected
by mental health, by those close to me.
276
00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:40,680
And I got two or three reactions
to that post that were, like,
277
00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:42,720
"Thank you for sharing.
I could never do that.
278
00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,400
I have the same situation,"
or, "I'm going through this,
279
00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:49,200
and I'm not ready to talk about it,
but I'm glad that somebody is."
280
00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:51,680
And the fact that I was a farmer,
281
00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:56,840
and I was using the farm to boost
that message related to others,
282
00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:01,320
and being agriculture
and being resilient and being strong
283
00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:04,880
and not letting things affect you
284
00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:08,760
has been the stigma
that farmers have faced forever.
285
00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:13,240
By saying, "Oh, I am vulnerable,
and this is what I'm going through,"
286
00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:17,040
can inspire somebody else
to share their story as well.
287
00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,080
And then through that,
just continuing to share
288
00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,040
anything I could about mental health.
289
00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:25,360
And I took some of the mental health
first aid courses,
290
00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:28,360
and getting to know people
like Lesley Kelly,
291
00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,480
High Heels and Canola Fields
with Do More Agriculture,
292
00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:33,880
led to a position
on their board for a while,
293
00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:37,120
and deeper connections
in the mental health community.
294
00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:39,520
It can be a weight off your shoulders
to share some of that
295
00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:41,840
and know that you're not alone.
296
00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:44,560
And I have been okay sharing
that about myself.
297
00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:48,200
So if I can inspire someone else to talk
about it and get help that they need,
298
00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:50,336
then I'm willing to do that for them.
299
00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:53,640
AS: There's so much value
in other people seeing
300
00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:56,480
that they're not alone
and feeling like they're seen.
301
00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:00,280
AV: I still get DMs that say,
"Thank you for sharing,"
302
00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:02,240
and sometimes
there's no more explanation.
303
00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:05,360
But I think if someone takes
the time to say, "Thank you for sharing,"
304
00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:06,920
that's them reaching out.
305
00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:10,960
It's nice to know that people are paying
attention and people are realizing
306
00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:13,680
they're not alone,
and that's so important.
307
00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:17,440
AS: I see more and more women
today owning that title of farmer,
308
00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:19,280
and I've heard the discussion too about,
309
00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:21,480
some people are less comfortable
with that title.
310
00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:26,040
You should be able to assume the title
that you are comfortable with.
311
00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:28,720
But it seems to me that more people are,
regardless of their role on the farm,
312
00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:32,480
are assuming that and it's being accepted,
which is great.
313
00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:35,840
AV: There's always been the argument,
farmer versus farm wife.
314
00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:37,760
I've been fine with either.
315
00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:41,680
I fully understood when I married
my husband, I was also marrying the farm.
316
00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:45,520
Being a farm wife doesn't make me
any less of a farmer, or vice versa.
317
00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:48,840
I think owning that
and saying that you are a farmer
318
00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:50,960
and not discrediting yourself
for the work that you do,
319
00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:53,440
because sometimes those hours or weeks
320
00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,960
that you spend at your
computer desk doing paperwork,
321
00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:58,880
your farm wouldn't be successful
without that.
322
00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:01,800
So you're still a farmer,
if that's your job.
323
00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:03,840
AS: So you're raising three sons,
as you mentioned.
324
00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:06,840
What do you hope they take away
from you as they move through life,
325
00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:08,364
either on or off the farm?
326
00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:15,160
AV: I hope that they grow up and see
what I was doing is normal to them.
327
00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:20,280
I grew up seeing my aunts in the roles
that they were in and owning the farm
328
00:17:20,360 --> 00:17:25,200
and stuff like that as normal,
and hoping that I carry that through
329
00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:27,680
to the next generation,
and that they never question it.
330
00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,680
They never look at a boardroom and say,
"Wow, there's only one woman here,"
331
00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:34,720
or think that
they don't deserve to be there.
332
00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,920
I want them to respect women
333
00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:41,200
and know the importance
that they bring to the table.
334
00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:45,640
And there's a lot to unpack
and to try to describe,
335
00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:50,360
but I think that them having someone
336
00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:52,960
willing to take the time to sit down,
to do meetings,
337
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:57,200
to do things off the farm
that reflect the farm,
338
00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:01,560
build it up from the outside,
type of thing, that that is normal.
339
00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:05,620
It's just status quo,
and nothing is unbalanced.
340
00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:10,080
AS: Do you see them adopting
that kind of mindset already at this age?
341
00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:15,480
AV: My oldest is 16,
so he's got his own life pretty much now.
342
00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:18,960
There's never a question of, "Oh, Mom's
got to go to a meeting and, you know,
343
00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:20,840
it's supper time," or...
344
00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:23,960
And the other two,
they're supportive kids,
345
00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:25,960
and it's normal to them.
346
00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:29,720
I don't know if they've been exposed
enough to see that it is different still.
347
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:30,720
AS: Yeah.
348
00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:34,240
AV: And I'm hoping that by the time
that they are my age,
349
00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:37,520
that it's not on the radar anymore.
That's the goal, right?
350
00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:41,320
AS: During your farming career,
what surprised you the most
351
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:43,567
about your experience as a woman in Ag?
352
00:18:44,360 --> 00:18:48,400
AV: Again, it's going back to not
realizing that my upbringing
353
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:51,760
was a little outside the box,
and becoming more involved,
354
00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,240
and then looking around the room
and sometimes realizing
355
00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:58,760
I'm one of only a handful of women,
or sometimes the only woman in the room.
356
00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:01,600
I am the chair of
Chicken Farmers of Nova Scotia,
357
00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:05,960
and I'm the only woman on the board.
That visual is still there.
358
00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:10,120
I don't feel like I am the token woman
in that sense, but looking in,
359
00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:11,960
it could be viewed that way.
360
00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:15,840
It still surprises me sometimes
when I hear an announcement
361
00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:20,640
about a woman elected to a board
for the first time in agriculture.
362
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,400
It's, like, wow,
it's still surprising today.
363
00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:29,440
So entering into it and sitting around
those rooms, even just at AGMs,
364
00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:33,320
realizing that I'm in the minority,
and it being 20 years later,
365
00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:36,820
and it's still the case,
that continues to be surprising.
366
00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:40,840
AS: We often hear, there's nothing holding
a woman back from getting involved.
367
00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:42,520
But I always wonder, is there?
368
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:44,840
Could it be self-confidence
or imposter syndrome?
369
00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:49,160
The mental load that typically is required
for women to physically lead the farm?
370
00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:52,880
Like you said, women sometimes
are quote, unquote, "stuck on the farm,"
371
00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:54,520
or is there something else?
372
00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:56,560
AV: We're the load-bearers.
373
00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:02,640
We're there for our spouse,
for our children, for everyone.
374
00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:06,600
For me to leave for a day or a night,
or however long,
375
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:11,400
I'm lining up someone to make sure
that the kids get on the bus on time,
376
00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:13,520
and making sure
that there's food in the freezer.
377
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:15,560
And it's not because
my husband can't do it;
378
00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:19,520
it's just because my brain just goes there
to get it all done before I leave.
379
00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:23,800
There's kind of that second shift
where we've got 17 balls in the air
380
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:25,600
we're trying to juggle at once.
381
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:29,840
I don't know why that is as women
that we naturally kind of do that.
382
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:31,560
I look at my husband and he's, like,
383
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:33,080
"Okay, I did this,
I did this, I did this."
384
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:35,320
He checked them all off in order.
He's done, he's happy.
385
00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:40,000
His mind is clear, and I've got
rabbits up there, just, like,
386
00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:41,520
doing laps in my head.
387
00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:46,120
There are things that not everybody
thinks about that do hold us back,
388
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:47,640
and it's the time thing.
389
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:52,360
I didn't really step up to take part
in a board or a committee or anything
390
00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:56,760
until I knew I could leave the house
for two hours without a baby crying
391
00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:00,000
or needing to be fed
or all this other stuff.
392
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,640
Now,
did I lug them as babies to these things?
393
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,680
100%, but then you're not 100%
in the room either.
394
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:10,360
There's definitely things
that are still barriers.
395
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:14,040
Childcare is still a barrier for families
in rural communities.
396
00:21:14,120 --> 00:21:18,040
There's a lot to organize in your life
to be able to do these things.
397
00:21:18,120 --> 00:21:22,060
And for some reason,
I think that falls harder on women.
398
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,640
AS: I think some of it is—
I would qualify that as biological,
399
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:29,160
because we typically have birthed
these children unless we adopted them,
400
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:32,440
and so then we're responsible
for basically keeping them alive
401
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,480
-for the first year of their lives.
-AV: Yeah.
402
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:39,360
AS: And then that just naturally
dovetails into other things,
403
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:43,640
where your partner might not have
had to think about those things before,
404
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,920
and then he just gradually progresses
and keeps going that way.
405
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,160
That's not to say that it can't change,
406
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:52,520
but it requires
a lot more thought process.
407
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:54,680
AV: It's that caretaker mentality.
408
00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:58,080
Like, for me to be able to go
and give my all
409
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,160
and be completely present,
I need to know that
410
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:04,380
x, y and z are all looked after
before I leave.
411
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:06,400
I still do that today.
412
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,960
I still have a hard time
walking out to go to an overnight trip
413
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:12,240
or to a day-long meeting,
414
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,720
and I'm still thinking
as I'm driving there, like,
415
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:16,560
"Okay, did I leave whatever in the freezer
416
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,640
so that they can pop something
easily into the oven for lunch?"
417
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:21,800
My kids are old enough
to make their own lunch.
418
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:24,547
I don't have to worry about this,
but I still do.
419
00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:29,480
AS: Do you think the imposter
syndrome and all that other mental,
420
00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:33,600
trying to chalk yourself to being enough,
plays into the equation as well?
421
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:39,040
AV: I have felt that a lot,
because you go out from that situation
422
00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:42,760
that I grew up in to realize
that's not the way the world is,
423
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,280
and then it's kind of, like,
smacks you in the face.
424
00:22:45,360 --> 00:22:51,200
I do feel that some on our own farm,
just because of my in-laws' upbringing
425
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:55,440
and their belief systems is more leaning
towards those traditional gender roles.
426
00:22:55,520 --> 00:23:01,200
It's been 21 years in this family,
and I still catch myself thinking
427
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,880
that I need to prove myself in some way.
I don't.
428
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,680
I know that the only person
I have to prove anything to is myself,
429
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:13,280
and that's enough. But there still
are days where you feel overlooked,
430
00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:14,920
or you feel like you haven't done enough,
431
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,480
or that you never get the thanks
that you deserve,
432
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,240
or whatever the situation may be.
433
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:21,720
I don't hold that against them.
434
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:23,840
That's part of their generation,
part of their religion,
435
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,120
but it still messes with your head.
436
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:30,040
AS: It's a hard thing to
live your truth in a generation
437
00:23:30,120 --> 00:23:32,160
that had known a different reality.
438
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,080
AV: Exactly,
and I didn't grow up that way,
439
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,160
and so it's very different for me.
440
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:39,800
I mean, I knew what I was getting into.
441
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,880
But also my husband
doesn't have that same belief system.
442
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,080
We're very much 50/50.
443
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,280
If he needs something done, he knows
I can do it, and he doesn't hold that
444
00:23:48,360 --> 00:23:50,200
I'm a woman and shouldn't be doing it.
445
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:51,891
He just tells me to go do it.
446
00:23:53,360 --> 00:23:55,080
So that wouldn't have worked otherwise.
447
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:59,720
But it's still there, because we still
have those people in our lives.
448
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,680
It's something that I do have to separate
449
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,840
every now and then
when I'm thinking about—
450
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,880
whether I'm doing a job or whether
I've brought something new to the farm
451
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:13,400
to try out, or have ideas
that I know are not going to go over well,
452
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:15,480
because they're coming from me.
453
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:19,240
But I've learned to let that slide
and let them mull over it for a while,
454
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:20,760
and it usually works out.
455
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:22,640
AS: Patience is important.
456
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:23,720
AV: That's right.
457
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,240
Ad: This podcast has been
brought to you by AgExpert
458
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,240
farm management software
designed for Canadian agriculture.
459
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,580
Learn more at agexpert.ca.
460
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,760
AS: You mentioned that
some of the boards that you sit on,
461
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,040
you're the only woman there,
or one of few women there.
462
00:24:41,120 --> 00:24:44,200
What would you say women
bring to the table that broadens
463
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,080
the perspective of the board?
464
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,560
AV: When we were talking
about how we're caretakers
465
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,640
and we think about things differently
than men do,
466
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:54,280
it's the same around the board table.
467
00:24:54,360 --> 00:24:56,680
Sometimes I'm a little more empathetic,
468
00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:01,240
or look at things from a different angle
than my male counterparts.
469
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,040
I do notice sometimes that
they're kind of cut and dry.
470
00:25:04,120 --> 00:25:07,040
It's very black and white,
and then I'm sitting there in the grey
471
00:25:07,120 --> 00:25:09,440
and thinking,
"Well, what if we looked at it like this?
472
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,760
How do we fix this problem?"
473
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,760
And the seven different ways
we can tackle it go through my brain,
474
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,960
where they go to the one that
they think works the best, and that's it.
475
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:22,880
It's that way of thinking that brings
a lot of value to women being on boards,
476
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:28,240
because it can change a view
on something and change the outcome,
477
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:33,960
or the particular way that you make
a decision or you lead a discussion.
478
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,520
It is the different ways of thinking
and being in that grey area,
479
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,960
I think that women
experience that more than men.
480
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,360
AS: That probably
leads to more possibilities
481
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:47,040
and a deeper perspective
on certain issues.
482
00:25:47,120 --> 00:25:51,480
AV: There's times where their
gut reaction is definitely the right one,
483
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,200
but we've broadened the conversation.
484
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,760
We've found something else
that we need to address
485
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,560
or fixed other problems in the process.
486
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,200
Just having that different
approach to problem solving
487
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:08,360
or brainstorming can be
a very valuable tool to have.
488
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,640
AS: Yeah, that's the last thing
you want on a board is groupthink, right?
489
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,960
AV: Having different views
of things is very progressive.
490
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,360
If everybody thought the same,
it'd be a pretty boring place to be.
491
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:20,800
AS: Over the course of your career,
what evolutions have you seen
492
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:22,880
of women in Ag?
493
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:28,720
AV: It's still seeing that boards
elected the first female
494
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:32,960
but then it's five years later,
and now they're the chair of that board.
495
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:34,480
I keep going back to boards,
496
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,560
because that's where
the public really sees it.
497
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:41,440
But also, there's more and more stories
about women taking on ownership roles
498
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:46,480
in farms or food processing
or whatever it may be in the food system,
499
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:51,120
and feeding our country,
and having that representation that
500
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,120
there are more and more women
stepping up into these positions
501
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:59,080
or taking on these huge tasks
that maybe 20 years ago,
502
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,240
nobody would have ever thought of.
Things are changing.
503
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,360
Maybe it's not changing as fast
as we think it should,
504
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,320
but there is that turnover happening.
505
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,320
AS: It's a marathon, not a sprint, right?
AV: Yes.
506
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,760
AS: Who do you think
is pushing this evolution?
507
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,600
AV: It's the people like us that
are having this conversation today.
508
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:21,000
It's the women in those Facebook groups
that are networking and connecting
509
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:23,400
and building courage and confidence.
510
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,600
I can't even begin to tell
you how many times I've been asked
511
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,760
to be a part of a panel
or be a part of a think tank
512
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:34,280
that's been funded
by whatever program to get
513
00:27:34,360 --> 00:27:37,800
however many women in the industry
by whatever year.
514
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,560
Those things fizzle out. They always do.
515
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,040
There's attention from it for a while,
and then it dies out.
516
00:27:44,120 --> 00:27:48,160
And meanwhile we're still back here
having these conversations
517
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:50,040
and still out here trying new things.
518
00:27:50,120 --> 00:27:54,280
And I think it's that organic process
more so than the spotlight
519
00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:55,960
and the money being thrown in.
520
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,720
Not saying that those aren't valuable,
because they still create those networks
521
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,060
and create relationships that help us.
522
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:06,680
It's the conversations in the background
that are pushing it more forward.
523
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,280
AS: Looking at long term
as the end game here,
524
00:28:09,360 --> 00:28:11,360
what is the plan
to have some sustainability
525
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,000
to carry on into the future?
526
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:16,440
AV: It's hard to have a measurable
outcome out of something like this.
527
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:21,880
Yes, we want to see whatever percentage
of women in leadership roles or whatever,
528
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:23,880
and it's the same in so many industries.
529
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:28,280
But how can you measure that outcome
to say this is worth investing in?
530
00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:30,760
And it's not that
it's not worth investing in,
531
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:32,640
it's just hard to quantify.
532
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,560
AS: It's hard to pinpoint
what you exactly need to invest in
533
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:37,680
that's going to make the biggest impact.
534
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:39,360
AV: Is it a mentorship program?
535
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:43,000
Is it just allowing some growth
in somebody's business
536
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,280
through a funding program
or something like that,
537
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,960
that can bring more women into it
or create more awareness?
538
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:50,429
It's difficult, for sure.
539
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,920
AS: Looking ahead,
what's exciting for you in agriculture?
540
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,320
AV: There's a lot to be excited about.
541
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:02,040
It is kind of a scary world
we live in right now in agriculture.
542
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:06,680
But looking ahead and seeing
how much advancement there's been
543
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:11,360
in technologies to not only help
with efficiencies and farm processes,
544
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,160
but also help with that work-life balance
545
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,160
and know that for the next generation,
546
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,440
it may be a little easier
than it was for me,
547
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,320
and a lot easier
than it was for my father-in-law.
548
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:26,200
But also seeing my 16-year-old
wants to do nothing else except farm.
549
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,480
If I would let him quit school today
and farm full-time,
550
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:33,120
he would be the happiest kid
on the planet.
551
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:38,360
It's nerve wracking for me to see that
because we don't even own the farm yet,
552
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:43,000
so trying to get him to understand that
we put all our eggs in one basket here
553
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:47,120
and nothing's changed yet,
we don't want you to do that.
554
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,960
It's hard because we see
other avenues he can take for a while,
555
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,680
or go do some training
and come back to the farm
556
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,080
and open your own business
and do whatever.
557
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:02,080
But knowing that he will likely
end up farming in some way,
558
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:06,120
whether it's with us, for us
or someone else,
559
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:10,520
that next generation is so hugely
important to keeping our industry going.
560
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:14,400
Seeing young people
who are going to come up through
561
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:19,120
and contribute to agriculture in one way
or another, that's the ultimate goal.
562
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:23,520
I'd never push my kids to join
the industry if they didn't want to.
563
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,440
For me it was my passion,
it was what I wanted to do and I did it.
564
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:29,280
And same with my husband,
565
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:31,920
and it's looking like it'll be the same
for my 16-year-old.
566
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,960
But my 12- and 10-year-old, I don't think
will have anything to do with agriculture,
567
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,000
and that's totally fine too.
568
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:42,520
Having those kids or those even
not involved in agriculture now
569
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:46,800
but are looking towards agriculture
in the future is definitely something
570
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:48,640
that we should all be excited about.
571
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:54,200
That's why I do what I do,
so I can hopefully ensure that it's there
572
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,680
for my 16-year-old if he wants it.
573
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:58,840
It's nerve wracking
at the same time to say,
574
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:00,960
I can't imagine him
in this role right now,
575
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:05,400
and being stuck in a transition,
for one, but also
576
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:10,240
responsible for a family in an industry
that is up and down so much.
577
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,800
But when the passion is there,
it's really hard to stay away from it too.
578
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:15,480
AS: This is great, Amy.
579
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,440
This was an awesome conversation.
Thank you so much.
580
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:19,760
AV: Thank you.
581
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:23,360
AS: Our conversation was recorded during
a busy season for Amy and her family,
582
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,200
and we sure appreciate her
taking the time out of her schedule
583
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:28,440
to talk about such an important topic.
584
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,200
Growing up on a farm
run and owned by women,
585
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,400
Amy had no reason to believe that
her experience was out of the ordinary.
586
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,400
This perspective has guided her journey
to running her own farm
587
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:39,280
alongside her husband and three sons.
588
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,840
She's also been able to bring
these same values and viewpoints
589
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,280
to the boardroom table
and to her networks.
590
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,040
Through it all, she continues
to be a strong advocate and voice
591
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,440
for Canadian agriculture,
for women, for mental health
592
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:52,298
and for the industry as a whole.
593
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:54,960
Even through the occasional self-doubt
594
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,280
or the feeling that
she might need to prove herself,
595
00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,160
Amy continues to roll up her sleeves
596
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,760
and be a part of the conversation
that needs to happen.
597
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,800
She's also finding other voices
to bring into the conversation as well.
598
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,720
Her influence isn't limited to industry
events or board meetings either.
599
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:13,240
Raising three young men, Amy already sees
how her example is changing
600
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:15,360
how they look at life and farming.
601
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,800
I'm so inspired by my conversation
with Amy.
602
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,720
There's so much strength in knowing
that we're all in this together
603
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,240
and that we can influence
positive growth in our families,
604
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,153
on our farms and in the industry.
605
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:32,160
Check the show notes for further reading
and resources related to this podcast.
606
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:34,160
Are you enjoying this podcast?
607
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,120
Be sure to share it
with your family and friends.
608
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:37,600
Please do subscribe
609
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,480
so you can be the first to know
when we drop new episodes.
610
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,440
And if you have feedback
or topic ideas you'd like to share,
611
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:45,360
go ahead and leave us a review.
612
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:49,240
Your feedback will help us make decisions
on what's valuable to you as a listener.
613
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,480
The FCC Knowledge Podcast
is a Farm Credit Canada production
614
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:57,780
in collaboration
with Roman Empire Studios.
00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:04,840
AS: From AgExpert,
it's the FCC Knowledge Podcast,
2
00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:07,640
a show that features
real Canadians in agriculture,
3
00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:11,360
real stories and real good conversations
about the business of farming.
4
00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:13,300
I'm your host Aimée Stang.
5
00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:19,200
AV: I think it gave me a little bit
more confidence to be able to do that,
6
00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:23,160
a little bit more gumption to say,
"I do know what I'm talking about,"
7
00:00:23,240 --> 00:00:26,360
because I had those strong
female role models in my life.
8
00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:30,440
I never felt that I couldn't do something
because I was a female.
9
00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:36,560
AS: Today, we're tackling
one of my favourite topics, women in Ag.
10
00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:40,240
I'm joined by Nova Scotian farmer
and a true agent of positive change
11
00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:42,780
in the Ag industry, Amy VanderHeide.
12
00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:46,240
Having grown up
on a farm run entirely by women,
13
00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:49,280
Amy supplied the lessons
she's learned to her own operation
14
00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:51,840
in the Annapolis Valley,
as well as in her family
15
00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:54,200
and on the Ag board she's involved with.
16
00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:56,920
Nine years ago,
Amy and her friend Katie Keddy
17
00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:58,880
created the Maritime Ag Women's Network
18
00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:01,440
to build community
and further the conversation
19
00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:03,940
with and about Women in Ag.
20
00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:11,400
Amy's currently the chair
of the Chicken Farmers of Nova Scotia,
21
00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:14,040
and has volunteered her time
on other Ag-related boards,
22
00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:17,600
including the Do More Ag Foundation.
But why am I still talking?
23
00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:19,458
Let's let Amy tell us her story.
24
00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:23,360
How about we start by getting you to tell
us a little bit about your background
25
00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:25,520
in agriculture and your upbringing?
26
00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:29,440
AV: I grew up one generation removed
from my grandmother's beef farm,
27
00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:33,760
but we lived next door,
and she was our after-school babysitter,
28
00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:36,280
and my aunts were
living at home at the time,
29
00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:40,480
so we were with them before,
after school, weekends, whenever.
30
00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:43,400
Whenever we wanted to be there,
we just walked down the road.
31
00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:46,480
I always say that
I grew up on the beef farm.
32
00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:50,640
I mean, a farm teaches you life lessons,
and that's where I learned them.
33
00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:55,000
Grew up in that environment,
and definitely knew that whatever I did
34
00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:57,840
when I grew up would
involve agriculture somehow.
35
00:01:57,920 --> 00:01:59,640
AS: So grandma
put you to work on the farm?
36
00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:01,000
AV: She did. It was more my aunt.
37
00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:03,840
My grandfather passed away
when I was two months old,
38
00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:06,480
and the farm went to my grandmother.
39
00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:09,200
But I had two aunts still living at home
40
00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:11,560
that were in college
and high school at the time.
41
00:02:11,640 --> 00:02:13,840
They just kind of continued running it.
42
00:02:13,920 --> 00:02:16,960
Never a conversation
of whether they should sell the farm.
43
00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:19,760
So it was my aunts that said,
"All right, we've got to go do chores.
44
00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:22,080
We've got to go do this
and you're coming with me."
45
00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:26,800
Or summers when we were being babysat
was spent fencing with my aunts.
46
00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:32,080
So it was kind of them
that instilled that work ethic to,
47
00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:35,800
"We have to go get things done and you're
coming along and you're going to help."
48
00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:39,200
So it wasn't really a question
of whether we were going to do it.
49
00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:40,960
It was just kind of an expectation.
50
00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:44,400
And luckily, I loved it,
so I never minded.
51
00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:47,080
AS: So let's fast forward to now.
Tell us about your farm life.
52
00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:50,080
AV: My husband, James
and I and his parents
53
00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:53,480
operate a poultry farm
in the Annapolis Valley, Nova Scotia.
54
00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:56,040
And then we also have three children.
55
00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,960
Jackson is 16, Warren is 12,
and Clay is 10.
56
00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:03,720
So they have very much grown up
being involved in the farm as well.
57
00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:06,200
We also do some cropping.
58
00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:09,680
And then James and I also own
our own small farm,
59
00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:13,240
which is just a small
cow calf farm on the side.
60
00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:17,160
It uses some of the land
that isn't good for cropping
61
00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,440
or use in any other way,
from his parents' farm.
62
00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,800
So we're lucky in that way that
we can kind of use some of their farm
63
00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:25,560
to help our business grow.
64
00:03:25,640 --> 00:03:27,880
AS: So your in-laws,
from what I understand,
65
00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:29,600
they have the poultry farm.
66
00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:33,520
And then you and your husband
have a beef farm in partnership.
67
00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:34,600
AV: Yes.
68
00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:37,120
AS: And then you're eventually going
to take over the poultry farm
69
00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:38,800
from your in-laws? Is that the plan?
70
00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:42,320
AV: Yes, that's the plan right now.
I don't see it changing.
71
00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:44,520
We don't want to do anything else.
72
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My husband is one of five siblings,
but he's the only one interested
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in continuing in agriculture in any way.
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00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:54,880
So it's been him and I
as primary operators.
75
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And his parents are in their 70s,
still involved with the farm,
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but just lesser physical and visual way.
77
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They're unable to do
some of the tougher jobs,
78
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but still very much involved
in the day to day.
79
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AS: So it was you that brought
over the concept of raising cattle
80
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to your husband?
81
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AV: I like the chickens,
but the beef come with certain personality
82
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and a little bit more hands-off,
but I missed having cattle,
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and luckily, James was all for it.
84
00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:26,680
We started just raising
a few calves for beef
85
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and then morphed into
a cow calf operation.
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It's still a lot of work,
especially in the summer
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when you're trying to do 100 other things,
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but we love the cattle
and they're pets to us,
89
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but they still serve a purpose.
90
00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:43,840
AS: You learned some important values
from your grandmother and aunts.
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Can you tell us more about those values?
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AV: It taught me to stand up for myself,
to be outspoken, to generally care,
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and to just be a good person
and show up for yourself.
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There is a place for you on the farm
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and there is a place for you
within leadership roles.
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Our grandmothers, or mothers,
were the ones bringing out the meals
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and keeping people fed
and getting kids to school.
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But there's so much more to it.
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Even to my mother-in-law,
she'll say that she's not a farmer,
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but I can tell you that she's kept
this ship afloat for many years.
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She's out there running straw,
getting ready for chicks and in the barn.
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AS: You're quite present
in social media and different Ag circles.
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Your passion for agriculture just
is very well known and shines through.
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What are you in particular
passionate about?
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AV: For me,
it's the education piece of agriculture,
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getting to talk to people who genuinely,
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really don't know
where their food comes from.
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But also just chatting with kids
through Ag in the classroom,
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but also being a co-founder
of the Maritime Ag Women's Network
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with my great friend Katie Keddy,
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and bringing together a community
of like-minded women throughout
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primarily Atlantic Canada, but it's grown.
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We have members
across Canada now and beyond.
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Having that community just online
through Facebook
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has been more than we ever thought
it would be,
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and it's just sometimes mind-blowing
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that we've actually been able to get this
community of women together
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and share conversations
and worries and stresses and successes
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and all that stuff together is great.
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AS: The network.
Where did that come from?
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AV: It came from a weekend in 2015.
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Katie and I had been to
the Atlantic Farm Women's Conference,
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which was held in Halifax.
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And as we were driving home,
and we were talking about the people
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that we'd met that we saw on
social media but didn't really know,
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and you got a chance to meet them.
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And it's a shame when you leave,
that connection is gone until
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either the next conference or the next
thing that brings you together.
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So we were just kind of chatting,
and said,
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"Well,
maybe we'll start a Facebook group
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and invite the people that we met,
and that'll give us a little space
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in the world to connect with them."
And it just grew.
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They invited friends,
their friends invited friends,
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and now we're well over 1000 members.
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AS: The Maritime Ag Women's Network,
this just exploded into something
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that was a really great,
far-reaching network.
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Was there anything else
that surprised you about that?
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AV: Some of the topics of conversations.
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People saying, like, "I need work clothes
and I can't find any that fit me,
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like, can't fit my body type,"
and stuff like that,
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stuff, again, that you don't necessarily
think about all the time.
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And then your brain goes, you know,
I go to my local workwear store.
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There is nothing that's either in a size,
you know, two to eight and doesn't fit me,
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or it doesn't exist.
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00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:37,600
Definitely just some
conversation stuff that maybe
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I hadn't experienced myself necessarily.
147
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But then also, on the flip side,
is also the opportunities
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that it's given for both Katie and I.
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We didn't go into it
expecting any type of recognition,
150
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and we still don't expect
any type of recognition.
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That's not why we did it.
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But we've been invited to take part
in opportunities like these podcasts,
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conferences and having
all these chances to bring awareness
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a) of the women's network as a whole,
155
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but also so we can kind of use that voice
and what we've learned
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to connect with more women.
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Having somebody call and say,
"Oh, I know you're a co-founder of this,
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really interested to talk to you."
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It still blows my mind
almost ten years later.
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AS: How do you receive
that when someone says,
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"Okay, you're a female farmer.
We want your perspective on this
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discussion panel or think tank,"
or things like that? Do you embrace that?
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Do you sometimes go,
"Oh, I'm the token female again?"
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Or, where does your mind go?
165
00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:34,480
AV: Yeah, it felt like that for a while.
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And it kind of got where Katie and I were,
like, "Okay, people have to be sick
167
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of seeing us and hearing
this over and over again,"
168
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to the point where we started reaching out
to other women that we had met
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through the Facebook page that we knew
would be great for this situation.
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It's always great to be asked,
and I don't mind doing these things.
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I like it. It gives me a chance
to talk to other people,
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but sometimes the platform isn't quite
where I am comfortable with
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if it's at a different type
of farming conference
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or a horticulture conference
that I'm not involved in that.
175
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I would rather say,
"Here's someone who's in your sector,
176
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would benefit from being in that room
in more ways than I would.
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Would love to introduce her
if she's willing to do it."
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And then there's times where you get
an opportunity that you can't pass off.
179
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It's still going both ways.
180
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If there's an opportunity that
I can give somebody that little
181
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boost of confidence and say,
"I think you'd be great for this,"
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I'm definitely going to do it.
And because we need that continuation,
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it can't fizzle out with the two of us.
It has to keep growing
184
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and keep having more people
to go out and chat.
185
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AS: I think that's such a great approach.
186
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You're still embracing the opportunity
to speak your truth
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and share your experiences
and inspire other people.
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And you're also, at the same time,
lifting others up that could potentially
189
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support these messages
in different rooms and different sectors.
190
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There's a lot of power in that.
191
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AV: Yeah, and they have some
different views on things than I do, too.
192
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So it broadens the conversation.
193
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If I'm busy, or Katie's busy,
or we've been talked out for that month,
194
00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:10,200
or whatever it is,
it's great to know we can think
195
00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:13,560
off the top of our heads now
of five or six different people
196
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each that would be perfect
for that situation.
197
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So just meeting all these people
has created that and given that
198
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platform to lift others up.
199
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And I think that's not what we expected,
200
00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:30,780
but has been a really great outcome
of the Maritime Ag Women's Network.
201
00:10:31,680 --> 00:10:32,800
AS: That's amazing.
202
00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:35,200
So let's go back
to your upbringing a little bit.
203
00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:37,920
What did it do for you
in terms of your world view
204
00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,640
on how women
are involved in our industry?
205
00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:44,200
AV: I didn't realize
when I was growing up on a farm
206
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that was owned by my grandmother,
how rare that was, first of all,
207
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and then having the primary operators
being my aunts.
208
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To me, it was normal.
That's how I grew up.
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And as far as I knew,
that was normal on every farm everywhere.
210
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But as you grow up
and become more involved,
211
00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:03,360
and you realize that wasn't the case,
212
00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:07,400
when I kind of came up
and wanted to be more involved
213
00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:11,080
and sitting around boardroom tables
full of men,
214
00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:12,880
and I'm the only woman in the room,
215
00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,840
I think it gave me a little bit
more confidence to be able to do that,
216
00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:21,120
a little bit more gumption to say,
"I do know what I'm talking about."
217
00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:24,680
Because I had those strong
female role models in my life,
218
00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:28,360
I never felt that I couldn't do something
because I was a female.
219
00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:32,560
I'd grown up seeing these women
take everything on, difficult calvings,
220
00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:35,000
purchases, everything.
221
00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:39,840
For me, I could take all of that knowledge
and confidence that I had gained
222
00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:43,360
from that upbringing
and bring it to the board table.
223
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AS: That's amazing.
Little Amy, seeing all this happening
224
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and having no idea that anything
could be possibly different.
225
00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:52,840
AV: Even growing up, and you hear
news stories and you still hear the term
226
00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:56,680
male-dominated, as far as I was concerned,
there was no such thing.
227
00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:58,880
But as you grow up
and you get more involved,
228
00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:02,120
and you do see that
agriculture is male-dominated,
229
00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:04,160
that it can be hard to find your place.
230
00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:08,760
But just because I've had that
leadership role in my life by those women
231
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carried me through.
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AS: How do you think
your personal experience
233
00:12:12,680 --> 00:12:15,680
inspire other women on the farm?
234
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AV: I think it's representation
and being able to see
235
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that there's another woman in a role
that you would like to take on someday.
236
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Or maybe you've been thinking
about doing something, but it's scary,
237
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or it's not comfortable.
238
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By other people sharing their stories,
239
00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:34,120
and being able to see
that representation out there,
240
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kind of gives you
a little bit more of a boost to say,
241
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"Okay, I know I can do this.
I can try it, I can see how it goes.
242
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But if she's doing it, I can do it too.
Or if they're doing it, I can do it too."
243
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It's just having that representation,
I think that really matters,
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and being able to see it.
245
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And I'm not sharing as much on
social media as I used to,
246
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just because it is a huge time suck.
247
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I just don't have it anymore.
248
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I wish I did, but it's not so simple
as posting a picture anymore,
249
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but I still do.
It's being able to take that five minutes
250
00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:09,520
and make that post
and have people message me
251
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or put a comment in that says,
"Thanks for sharing.
252
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I wanted to try this,
glad to know it worked," whatever.
253
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But just being able to share
that little corner of my world
254
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and inspire somebody else
is mind-blowing to me.
255
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I'm just Amy from Nova Scotia,
256
00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:32,520
so to have people recognize me
from as far as away as they do
257
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because of social media
is crazy sometimes.
258
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AS: It's definitely
opened up a lot of networks
259
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that we wouldn't have had otherwise.
260
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AV: It's that isolation factor too,
where you're on the farm
261
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and you've got kids or you've got
the responsibilities of farming
262
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that you're not necessarily able to go out
263
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and connect and network
with people as often.
264
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So having that outlet online
and being able to share that story
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or that frustration
or success is everything,
266
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and then seeing that representation
from others can inspire somebody else.
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AS: You talked about
how important that is to you,
268
00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:10,440
sharing the reality of agriculture,
and it also spreads to other
269
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passions of yours, such as mental health.
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AV: On social media, one day, decided
I was going to just make a post about
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how mental illness affects me.
I do have seasonal affective disorder.
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September, October,
and it starts to get darker,
273
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and my mind starts to get darker,
and I go into hibernation mode.
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And I just felt like sharing that.
275
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There's other ways I've been affected
by mental health, by those close to me.
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And I got two or three reactions
to that post that were, like,
277
00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:42,720
"Thank you for sharing.
I could never do that.
278
00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,400
I have the same situation,"
or, "I'm going through this,
279
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and I'm not ready to talk about it,
but I'm glad that somebody is."
280
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And the fact that I was a farmer,
281
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and I was using the farm to boost
that message related to others,
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and being agriculture
and being resilient and being strong
283
00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:04,880
and not letting things affect you
284
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has been the stigma
that farmers have faced forever.
285
00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:13,240
By saying, "Oh, I am vulnerable,
and this is what I'm going through,"
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can inspire somebody else
to share their story as well.
287
00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,080
And then through that,
just continuing to share
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anything I could about mental health.
289
00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:25,360
And I took some of the mental health
first aid courses,
290
00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:28,360
and getting to know people
like Lesley Kelly,
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00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,480
High Heels and Canola Fields
with Do More Agriculture,
292
00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:33,880
led to a position
on their board for a while,
293
00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:37,120
and deeper connections
in the mental health community.
294
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It can be a weight off your shoulders
to share some of that
295
00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:41,840
and know that you're not alone.
296
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And I have been okay sharing
that about myself.
297
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So if I can inspire someone else to talk
about it and get help that they need,
298
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then I'm willing to do that for them.
299
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AS: There's so much value
in other people seeing
300
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that they're not alone
and feeling like they're seen.
301
00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:00,280
AV: I still get DMs that say,
"Thank you for sharing,"
302
00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:02,240
and sometimes
there's no more explanation.
303
00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:05,360
But I think if someone takes
the time to say, "Thank you for sharing,"
304
00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:06,920
that's them reaching out.
305
00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:10,960
It's nice to know that people are paying
attention and people are realizing
306
00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:13,680
they're not alone,
and that's so important.
307
00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:17,440
AS: I see more and more women
today owning that title of farmer,
308
00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:19,280
and I've heard the discussion too about,
309
00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:21,480
some people are less comfortable
with that title.
310
00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:26,040
You should be able to assume the title
that you are comfortable with.
311
00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:28,720
But it seems to me that more people are,
regardless of their role on the farm,
312
00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:32,480
are assuming that and it's being accepted,
which is great.
313
00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:35,840
AV: There's always been the argument,
farmer versus farm wife.
314
00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:37,760
I've been fine with either.
315
00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:41,680
I fully understood when I married
my husband, I was also marrying the farm.
316
00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:45,520
Being a farm wife doesn't make me
any less of a farmer, or vice versa.
317
00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:48,840
I think owning that
and saying that you are a farmer
318
00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:50,960
and not discrediting yourself
for the work that you do,
319
00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:53,440
because sometimes those hours or weeks
320
00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,960
that you spend at your
computer desk doing paperwork,
321
00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:58,880
your farm wouldn't be successful
without that.
322
00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:01,800
So you're still a farmer,
if that's your job.
323
00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:03,840
AS: So you're raising three sons,
as you mentioned.
324
00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:06,840
What do you hope they take away
from you as they move through life,
325
00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:08,364
either on or off the farm?
326
00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:15,160
AV: I hope that they grow up and see
what I was doing is normal to them.
327
00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:20,280
I grew up seeing my aunts in the roles
that they were in and owning the farm
328
00:17:20,360 --> 00:17:25,200
and stuff like that as normal,
and hoping that I carry that through
329
00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:27,680
to the next generation,
and that they never question it.
330
00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,680
They never look at a boardroom and say,
"Wow, there's only one woman here,"
331
00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:34,720
or think that
they don't deserve to be there.
332
00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,920
I want them to respect women
333
00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:41,200
and know the importance
that they bring to the table.
334
00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:45,640
And there's a lot to unpack
and to try to describe,
335
00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:50,360
but I think that them having someone
336
00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:52,960
willing to take the time to sit down,
to do meetings,
337
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:57,200
to do things off the farm
that reflect the farm,
338
00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:01,560
build it up from the outside,
type of thing, that that is normal.
339
00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:05,620
It's just status quo,
and nothing is unbalanced.
340
00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:10,080
AS: Do you see them adopting
that kind of mindset already at this age?
341
00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:15,480
AV: My oldest is 16,
so he's got his own life pretty much now.
342
00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:18,960
There's never a question of, "Oh, Mom's
got to go to a meeting and, you know,
343
00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:20,840
it's supper time," or...
344
00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:23,960
And the other two,
they're supportive kids,
345
00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:25,960
and it's normal to them.
346
00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:29,720
I don't know if they've been exposed
enough to see that it is different still.
347
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:30,720
AS: Yeah.
348
00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:34,240
AV: And I'm hoping that by the time
that they are my age,
349
00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:37,520
that it's not on the radar anymore.
That's the goal, right?
350
00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:41,320
AS: During your farming career,
what surprised you the most
351
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:43,567
about your experience as a woman in Ag?
352
00:18:44,360 --> 00:18:48,400
AV: Again, it's going back to not
realizing that my upbringing
353
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:51,760
was a little outside the box,
and becoming more involved,
354
00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,240
and then looking around the room
and sometimes realizing
355
00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:58,760
I'm one of only a handful of women,
or sometimes the only woman in the room.
356
00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:01,600
I am the chair of
Chicken Farmers of Nova Scotia,
357
00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:05,960
and I'm the only woman on the board.
That visual is still there.
358
00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:10,120
I don't feel like I am the token woman
in that sense, but looking in,
359
00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:11,960
it could be viewed that way.
360
00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:15,840
It still surprises me sometimes
when I hear an announcement
361
00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:20,640
about a woman elected to a board
for the first time in agriculture.
362
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,400
It's, like, wow,
it's still surprising today.
363
00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:29,440
So entering into it and sitting around
those rooms, even just at AGMs,
364
00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:33,320
realizing that I'm in the minority,
and it being 20 years later,
365
00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:36,820
and it's still the case,
that continues to be surprising.
366
00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:40,840
AS: We often hear, there's nothing holding
a woman back from getting involved.
367
00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:42,520
But I always wonder, is there?
368
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:44,840
Could it be self-confidence
or imposter syndrome?
369
00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:49,160
The mental load that typically is required
for women to physically lead the farm?
370
00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:52,880
Like you said, women sometimes
are quote, unquote, "stuck on the farm,"
371
00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:54,520
or is there something else?
372
00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:56,560
AV: We're the load-bearers.
373
00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:02,640
We're there for our spouse,
for our children, for everyone.
374
00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:06,600
For me to leave for a day or a night,
or however long,
375
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:11,400
I'm lining up someone to make sure
that the kids get on the bus on time,
376
00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:13,520
and making sure
that there's food in the freezer.
377
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:15,560
And it's not because
my husband can't do it;
378
00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:19,520
it's just because my brain just goes there
to get it all done before I leave.
379
00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:23,800
There's kind of that second shift
where we've got 17 balls in the air
380
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:25,600
we're trying to juggle at once.
381
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:29,840
I don't know why that is as women
that we naturally kind of do that.
382
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:31,560
I look at my husband and he's, like,
383
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:33,080
"Okay, I did this,
I did this, I did this."
384
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:35,320
He checked them all off in order.
He's done, he's happy.
385
00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:40,000
His mind is clear, and I've got
rabbits up there, just, like,
386
00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:41,520
doing laps in my head.
387
00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:46,120
There are things that not everybody
thinks about that do hold us back,
388
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:47,640
and it's the time thing.
389
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:52,360
I didn't really step up to take part
in a board or a committee or anything
390
00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:56,760
until I knew I could leave the house
for two hours without a baby crying
391
00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:00,000
or needing to be fed
or all this other stuff.
392
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,640
Now,
did I lug them as babies to these things?
393
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,680
100%, but then you're not 100%
in the room either.
394
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:10,360
There's definitely things
that are still barriers.
395
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:14,040
Childcare is still a barrier for families
in rural communities.
396
00:21:14,120 --> 00:21:18,040
There's a lot to organize in your life
to be able to do these things.
397
00:21:18,120 --> 00:21:22,060
And for some reason,
I think that falls harder on women.
398
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,640
AS: I think some of it is—
I would qualify that as biological,
399
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:29,160
because we typically have birthed
these children unless we adopted them,
400
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:32,440
and so then we're responsible
for basically keeping them alive
401
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,480
-for the first year of their lives.
-AV: Yeah.
402
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:39,360
AS: And then that just naturally
dovetails into other things,
403
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:43,640
where your partner might not have
had to think about those things before,
404
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,920
and then he just gradually progresses
and keeps going that way.
405
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,160
That's not to say that it can't change,
406
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:52,520
but it requires
a lot more thought process.
407
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:54,680
AV: It's that caretaker mentality.
408
00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:58,080
Like, for me to be able to go
and give my all
409
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,160
and be completely present,
I need to know that
410
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:04,380
x, y and z are all looked after
before I leave.
411
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:06,400
I still do that today.
412
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,960
I still have a hard time
walking out to go to an overnight trip
413
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:12,240
or to a day-long meeting,
414
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,720
and I'm still thinking
as I'm driving there, like,
415
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:16,560
"Okay, did I leave whatever in the freezer
416
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,640
so that they can pop something
easily into the oven for lunch?"
417
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:21,800
My kids are old enough
to make their own lunch.
418
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:24,547
I don't have to worry about this,
but I still do.
419
00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:29,480
AS: Do you think the imposter
syndrome and all that other mental,
420
00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:33,600
trying to chalk yourself to being enough,
plays into the equation as well?
421
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:39,040
AV: I have felt that a lot,
because you go out from that situation
422
00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:42,760
that I grew up in to realize
that's not the way the world is,
423
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,280
and then it's kind of, like,
smacks you in the face.
424
00:22:45,360 --> 00:22:51,200
I do feel that some on our own farm,
just because of my in-laws' upbringing
425
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:55,440
and their belief systems is more leaning
towards those traditional gender roles.
426
00:22:55,520 --> 00:23:01,200
It's been 21 years in this family,
and I still catch myself thinking
427
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,880
that I need to prove myself in some way.
I don't.
428
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,680
I know that the only person
I have to prove anything to is myself,
429
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:13,280
and that's enough. But there still
are days where you feel overlooked,
430
00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:14,920
or you feel like you haven't done enough,
431
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,480
or that you never get the thanks
that you deserve,
432
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,240
or whatever the situation may be.
433
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:21,720
I don't hold that against them.
434
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:23,840
That's part of their generation,
part of their religion,
435
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,120
but it still messes with your head.
436
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:30,040
AS: It's a hard thing to
live your truth in a generation
437
00:23:30,120 --> 00:23:32,160
that had known a different reality.
438
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,080
AV: Exactly,
and I didn't grow up that way,
439
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,160
and so it's very different for me.
440
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:39,800
I mean, I knew what I was getting into.
441
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,880
But also my husband
doesn't have that same belief system.
442
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,080
We're very much 50/50.
443
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,280
If he needs something done, he knows
I can do it, and he doesn't hold that
444
00:23:48,360 --> 00:23:50,200
I'm a woman and shouldn't be doing it.
445
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:51,891
He just tells me to go do it.
446
00:23:53,360 --> 00:23:55,080
So that wouldn't have worked otherwise.
447
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:59,720
But it's still there, because we still
have those people in our lives.
448
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,680
It's something that I do have to separate
449
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,840
every now and then
when I'm thinking about—
450
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,880
whether I'm doing a job or whether
I've brought something new to the farm
451
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:13,400
to try out, or have ideas
that I know are not going to go over well,
452
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:15,480
because they're coming from me.
453
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:19,240
But I've learned to let that slide
and let them mull over it for a while,
454
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:20,760
and it usually works out.
455
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:22,640
AS: Patience is important.
456
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:23,720
AV: That's right.
457
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,240
Ad: This podcast has been
brought to you by AgExpert
458
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,240
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designed for Canadian agriculture.
459
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,580
Learn more at agexpert.ca.
460
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,760
AS: You mentioned that
some of the boards that you sit on,
461
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,040
you're the only woman there,
or one of few women there.
462
00:24:41,120 --> 00:24:44,200
What would you say women
bring to the table that broadens
463
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,080
the perspective of the board?
464
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,560
AV: When we were talking
about how we're caretakers
465
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,640
and we think about things differently
than men do,
466
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:54,280
it's the same around the board table.
467
00:24:54,360 --> 00:24:56,680
Sometimes I'm a little more empathetic,
468
00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:01,240
or look at things from a different angle
than my male counterparts.
469
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,040
I do notice sometimes that
they're kind of cut and dry.
470
00:25:04,120 --> 00:25:07,040
It's very black and white,
and then I'm sitting there in the grey
471
00:25:07,120 --> 00:25:09,440
and thinking,
"Well, what if we looked at it like this?
472
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,760
How do we fix this problem?"
473
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,760
And the seven different ways
we can tackle it go through my brain,
474
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,960
where they go to the one that
they think works the best, and that's it.
475
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:22,880
It's that way of thinking that brings
a lot of value to women being on boards,
476
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:28,240
because it can change a view
on something and change the outcome,
477
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:33,960
or the particular way that you make
a decision or you lead a discussion.
478
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,520
It is the different ways of thinking
and being in that grey area,
479
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,960
I think that women
experience that more than men.
480
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,360
AS: That probably
leads to more possibilities
481
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:47,040
and a deeper perspective
on certain issues.
482
00:25:47,120 --> 00:25:51,480
AV: There's times where their
gut reaction is definitely the right one,
483
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,200
but we've broadened the conversation.
484
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,760
We've found something else
that we need to address
485
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,560
or fixed other problems in the process.
486
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,200
Just having that different
approach to problem solving
487
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:08,360
or brainstorming can be
a very valuable tool to have.
488
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,640
AS: Yeah, that's the last thing
you want on a board is groupthink, right?
489
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,960
AV: Having different views
of things is very progressive.
490
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,360
If everybody thought the same,
it'd be a pretty boring place to be.
491
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:20,800
AS: Over the course of your career,
what evolutions have you seen
492
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:22,880
of women in Ag?
493
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:28,720
AV: It's still seeing that boards
elected the first female
494
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:32,960
but then it's five years later,
and now they're the chair of that board.
495
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:34,480
I keep going back to boards,
496
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,560
because that's where
the public really sees it.
497
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:41,440
But also, there's more and more stories
about women taking on ownership roles
498
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:46,480
in farms or food processing
or whatever it may be in the food system,
499
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:51,120
and feeding our country,
and having that representation that
500
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,120
there are more and more women
stepping up into these positions
501
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:59,080
or taking on these huge tasks
that maybe 20 years ago,
502
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,240
nobody would have ever thought of.
Things are changing.
503
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,360
Maybe it's not changing as fast
as we think it should,
504
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,320
but there is that turnover happening.
505
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,320
AS: It's a marathon, not a sprint, right?
AV: Yes.
506
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,760
AS: Who do you think
is pushing this evolution?
507
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,600
AV: It's the people like us that
are having this conversation today.
508
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:21,000
It's the women in those Facebook groups
that are networking and connecting
509
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:23,400
and building courage and confidence.
510
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,600
I can't even begin to tell
you how many times I've been asked
511
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,760
to be a part of a panel
or be a part of a think tank
512
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:34,280
that's been funded
by whatever program to get
513
00:27:34,360 --> 00:27:37,800
however many women in the industry
by whatever year.
514
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,560
Those things fizzle out. They always do.
515
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,040
There's attention from it for a while,
and then it dies out.
516
00:27:44,120 --> 00:27:48,160
And meanwhile we're still back here
having these conversations
517
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:50,040
and still out here trying new things.
518
00:27:50,120 --> 00:27:54,280
And I think it's that organic process
more so than the spotlight
519
00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:55,960
and the money being thrown in.
520
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,720
Not saying that those aren't valuable,
because they still create those networks
521
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,060
and create relationships that help us.
522
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:06,680
It's the conversations in the background
that are pushing it more forward.
523
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,280
AS: Looking at long term
as the end game here,
524
00:28:09,360 --> 00:28:11,360
what is the plan
to have some sustainability
525
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,000
to carry on into the future?
526
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:16,440
AV: It's hard to have a measurable
outcome out of something like this.
527
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:21,880
Yes, we want to see whatever percentage
of women in leadership roles or whatever,
528
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:23,880
and it's the same in so many industries.
529
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:28,280
But how can you measure that outcome
to say this is worth investing in?
530
00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:30,760
And it's not that
it's not worth investing in,
531
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:32,640
it's just hard to quantify.
532
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,560
AS: It's hard to pinpoint
what you exactly need to invest in
533
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:37,680
that's going to make the biggest impact.
534
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:39,360
AV: Is it a mentorship program?
535
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:43,000
Is it just allowing some growth
in somebody's business
536
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,280
through a funding program
or something like that,
537
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,960
that can bring more women into it
or create more awareness?
538
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:50,429
It's difficult, for sure.
539
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,920
AS: Looking ahead,
what's exciting for you in agriculture?
540
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,320
AV: There's a lot to be excited about.
541
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:02,040
It is kind of a scary world
we live in right now in agriculture.
542
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:06,680
But looking ahead and seeing
how much advancement there's been
543
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:11,360
in technologies to not only help
with efficiencies and farm processes,
544
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,160
but also help with that work-life balance
545
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,160
and know that for the next generation,
546
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,440
it may be a little easier
than it was for me,
547
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,320
and a lot easier
than it was for my father-in-law.
548
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:26,200
But also seeing my 16-year-old
wants to do nothing else except farm.
549
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,480
If I would let him quit school today
and farm full-time,
550
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:33,120
he would be the happiest kid
on the planet.
551
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:38,360
It's nerve wracking for me to see that
because we don't even own the farm yet,
552
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:43,000
so trying to get him to understand that
we put all our eggs in one basket here
553
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:47,120
and nothing's changed yet,
we don't want you to do that.
554
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,960
It's hard because we see
other avenues he can take for a while,
555
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,680
or go do some training
and come back to the farm
556
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,080
and open your own business
and do whatever.
557
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:02,080
But knowing that he will likely
end up farming in some way,
558
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:06,120
whether it's with us, for us
or someone else,
559
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:10,520
that next generation is so hugely
important to keeping our industry going.
560
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:14,400
Seeing young people
who are going to come up through
561
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:19,120
and contribute to agriculture in one way
or another, that's the ultimate goal.
562
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:23,520
I'd never push my kids to join
the industry if they didn't want to.
563
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,440
For me it was my passion,
it was what I wanted to do and I did it.
564
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:29,280
And same with my husband,
565
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:31,920
and it's looking like it'll be the same
for my 16-year-old.
566
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,960
But my 12- and 10-year-old, I don't think
will have anything to do with agriculture,
567
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,000
and that's totally fine too.
568
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:42,520
Having those kids or those even
not involved in agriculture now
569
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:46,800
but are looking towards agriculture
in the future is definitely something
570
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:48,640
that we should all be excited about.
571
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:54,200
That's why I do what I do,
so I can hopefully ensure that it's there
572
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,680
for my 16-year-old if he wants it.
573
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:58,840
It's nerve wracking
at the same time to say,
574
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:00,960
I can't imagine him
in this role right now,
575
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:05,400
and being stuck in a transition,
for one, but also
576
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:10,240
responsible for a family in an industry
that is up and down so much.
577
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,800
But when the passion is there,
it's really hard to stay away from it too.
578
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:15,480
AS: This is great, Amy.
579
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,440
This was an awesome conversation.
Thank you so much.
580
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:19,760
AV: Thank you.
581
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:23,360
AS: Our conversation was recorded during
a busy season for Amy and her family,
582
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,200
and we sure appreciate her
taking the time out of her schedule
583
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:28,440
to talk about such an important topic.
584
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,200
Growing up on a farm
run and owned by women,
585
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,400
Amy had no reason to believe that
her experience was out of the ordinary.
586
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,400
This perspective has guided her journey
to running her own farm
587
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:39,280
alongside her husband and three sons.
588
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,840
She's also been able to bring
these same values and viewpoints
589
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,280
to the boardroom table
and to her networks.
590
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,040
Through it all, she continues
to be a strong advocate and voice
591
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,440
for Canadian agriculture,
for women, for mental health
592
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:52,298
and for the industry as a whole.
593
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:54,960
Even through the occasional self-doubt
594
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,280
or the feeling that
she might need to prove herself,
595
00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,160
Amy continues to roll up her sleeves
596
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,760
and be a part of the conversation
that needs to happen.
597
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,800
She's also finding other voices
to bring into the conversation as well.
598
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,720
Her influence isn't limited to industry
events or board meetings either.
599
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:13,240
Raising three young men, Amy already sees
how her example is changing
600
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:15,360
how they look at life and farming.
601
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,800
I'm so inspired by my conversation
with Amy.
602
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,720
There's so much strength in knowing
that we're all in this together
603
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,240
and that we can influence
positive growth in our families,
604
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,153
on our farms and in the industry.
605
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:32,160
Check the show notes for further reading
and resources related to this podcast.
606
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:34,160
Are you enjoying this podcast?
607
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,120
Be sure to share it
with your family and friends.
608
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:37,600
Please do subscribe
609
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,480
so you can be the first to know
when we drop new episodes.
610
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,440
And if you have feedback
or topic ideas you'd like to share,
611
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:45,360
go ahead and leave us a review.
612
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:49,240
Your feedback will help us make decisions
on what's valuable to you as a listener.
613
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,480
The FCC Knowledge Podcast
is a Farm Credit Canada production
614
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:57,780
in collaboration
with Roman Empire Studios.
