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Have you ever wondered how successful
architecture, engineering, and construction
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companies scale their business?
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Or have you ever wanted guidance on how to get
more growth, wealth, and freedom from your AEC
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company.
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Will, then you are in luck.
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Hi.
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I'm Will Foret.
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And I'm Justin Nagel, and we're your podcast
host.
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We interview successful AEC business leaders to
learn how they use people, process, and
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technology to scale their businesses.
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So sit back and get ready to learn from the
industry's best.
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This
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is building scale.
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Hey, listeners.
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It's Will here.
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Our mission is to help the AC industry protect
itself by making technology easy.
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If you've ever listened to our show, then you
know that the 3 pillars of scaling a business
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are people, process, and technology.
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So if you use the Spect technology as your
weekly, then book a call with us to see where
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we can help maximize your company's IP and
cyber security strategy Justin go to building
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scale.net/help.
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Today's guest is Steve Rena.
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Eve is a CEO and co founder of Fieldwire.
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He has a master's degree in civil and
environmental engineering from Stanford
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University.
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And was a paratrooper in the French army.
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Prior to starting Will wire, he held leadership
roles in the consumer software industry at
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Ubisoft.
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Where he led development teams Foret listeners
who don't know Will wire is construction field
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management platform designed for the job site.
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Members of your team can view plans, photos,
and task all in real time.
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Eve grew field Will from the idea with five
people to a robust company in the construction
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space with over 250.
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And Foret of 2021 Will wire was acquired by a
little company called Will and it makes lots of
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sense because field Will is used in a 100
countries, 6 of the 7 continents, and powers
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more than a 1,000,000 commercial industrial
heavy civil and residential projects worldwide.
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With that said, Steve, welcome to the show.
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And why not why not Antarctica?
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What are why you guys are slacking?
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Why are are we not doing stuff in Antarctica
yet?
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That's that'd be the only thing I'd say.
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So that's, so Foret of all, thanks for having
me on the show.
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Second of all, we are doing Antarctica.
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We actually have a fire stopping company that
is using us in Antarctica.
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So Oh my god.
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I have to go back that 7 of 7 continents, field
wires in So congratulations to you for
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literally taking over the world.
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Yeah.
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This is the most extreme offline use case,
because they were talking about the fact that
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they do go offline for almost, like, weeks at a
time when they're, when they're on some
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facilities over there, and then they come back
after a month and everything gets uploaded.
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So it's interesting.
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It happens.
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We haven't talked to customers.
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That's all.
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1, congratulations.
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You could sell, snow to, to the polar bears.
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So look at that.
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Exactly.
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Okay.
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So, Eve, tell us the back story.
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Tell really about you, how you got into the
industry, as well as tell us more about
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Fieldware.
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Yeah.
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Absolutely.
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I mean, like, So you summarized it pretty good.
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Like, so I grew up in France.
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My parents, are both engineers, and and and,
you know, on top of of their their day jobs.
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Like, one of their passion was, like, buying
old houses that were, completely decrepit and
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and remodeling them and redoing them.
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And so, like, I've I've grown up on
construction sites of Will farms that were
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being remodeled into, like, super nice, like,
residential houses.
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And then my parents would sell it, and then we
would move somewhere else So that's that's kind
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of like how I grew up in between kind of like
Justin bags of cement and and, you know, like,
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insulation foam and stuff like So that was a
that's a good experience, and I witnessed
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basically construction there.
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At least for the small scale residential side,
you know, in an era where you would take
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photos, then you would have to take those
photos to be developed, and then you would
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organize those in binders, like imagine doing a
a punch jigs back then and how it Justin
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breaking detailed and and heavy it had to be.
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And so I think I had a had a pretty good idea
of of of of what the grind was and running a
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small scale project like that.
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So, you know, I studied engineering.
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I actually did, like, CS And Mechanical
Engineering and friends at the time.
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I was working more on the you know, I think my
goal was to become like a heavy civil engineer,
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to work on bridges like large facilities, stuff
like that, then I went to Stanford what
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attracted me, in the civil engineering program
at Stanford was, Foret modeling was a big, was
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a big kind of like cool tech at the time.
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And you know, I kinda went through this very
transformational phase when I was at Sanford.
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I was like, it really theft, like, we're
overoptimizing the design side of the industry
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that honestly was pretty good.
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I mean, it's still very good.
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It keeps progressing, but it really wasn't in
that 0 to 1 moment.
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And at the same time, you were going on a job
site, and it looked very much like what I had
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witnessed when I was a kid.
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And I was like, we're working on the wrong
problem here.
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Like, we should be bringing tech to to the
people on the job site.
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I can take them out of this stone age.
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That being said, were in, like, 2006, 2007 at
the time, you know, there's no smartphone out
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there.
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Like, you see some kind of, like, weird custom
devices on job site and they awful.
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And I was like, okay, this, this industry is
cursed.
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We're never gonna be able to do that problem.
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And I actually got to a point where I left the
industry, like, out of frustration.
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Like, I had spent a lot of time feeling
paperworks when I was in the paratroopers, you
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know, like, interestingly enough, even when
you're in the, you're in a combat unit, you
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know, you need a gun.
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You need to fill a paperwork.
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You need to be bringing back another paperwork.
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You need to just you feel forms all day long.
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And the reality is that's kind of like what we
have to offer to young, like, construction
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engineer when they get on the site.
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Like, a field engineer will fill paper at least
back in 0607 that that was the Foret of their
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job.
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I was like, I don't wanna go back doing that.
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So I actually left the industry entirely.
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And I was like, okay.
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I know a little bit about just management and
building teams.
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I know some engineering.
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I'm passionate about kind of like design and
products.
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Like, I like the tangible aspect of the
industry.
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I was like, who's gonna take me, right?
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Like, what what job can I do?
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And so I went to interview to a bunch of
companies.
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I interviewed to some startups at the time.
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I interviewed with some product design
companies I interviewed with some gaming
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companies because being a big gamer myself, I
was like, okay, that that would be real cool.
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And Ubisoft gave me a team from scratch.
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So I was like, okay.
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If you're gonna give, like, a Will development
team to a twenty five year old, like, this is
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like, let's go.
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They didn't pay me
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very much, but you know what?
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Like, I always always followed kind of like the
skill set in the passion first.
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So I was like, let's go do that.
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And I think I'm gonna develop some good skills.
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So I did some really simple game.
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My first game was like, a half $1,000,000 game,
like, where it was, it was a game for kids,
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like, a big, big top circus it was called.
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But you know what?
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You learn a lot by just doing a product cycle,
even on a on a on a game that just didn't
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really have a super good consumer appeal Foret
Justin wasn't it was really about getting Wii
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games on the shelf because that we had just
launched.
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But then after that, I did a good job on a game
that actually didn't matter.
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Gave me a bit bigger budget and a bigger team.
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And then I just kept growing, and I went all
the way to working on the, on the ghost recon
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franchise at ubisoft on my last project, which
was a big deal.
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Oh, man.
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And you know what?
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Like, my last team was bad.
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Like, I think it was probably between, like,
you know, 60, 70 people.
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And And interestingly enough, I started seeing
in games, like, like in the tools we were using
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for our teams, kind of like the answer to some
of the problem that I had experienced on job
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sites.
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And I was like, wow, if we could build that
tool on mobile, for construction people, that
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would be amazing.
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And so at one point when I got my green card at
Ubisoft, I was kind of ready to go.
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Like, I wasn't learning as much, and I was kind
of like, going back to the I wanna work on
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something tangible.
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I wanna feel like I wanna see what we're what
we're building here and, like, that have a
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lasting kind of like impact on society.
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And, and I went back to construction because,
ultimately, that's the sector that I really
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love.
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And I took all my own earnings from Ubisoft.
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I was like, okay.
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We're gonna do a task management platform, you
know, overlayed on plans for construction
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people.
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That was the the core belief.
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And we're gonna distribute it.
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Like, we distribute it to an online game.
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Like, so we're gonna run ads and people are
gonna be able to download it themselves, and
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it's gonna be free to use that Foret but if
they really like it, then they can upgrade to a
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premium solution.
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So it sounds really basic today.
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But back in, like, 2013, when we started the
company, that was my mind blowing.
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Like, nobody was running out on Google in
construction.
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Like, nobody was doing freemium in
construction, etcetera.
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And so I think it worked really great, and so I
think that's what took us to where we are now.
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So I need to ask you a really important
question here.
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Go for it.
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What games were you playing at the age of
twenty five that you really liked?
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At the end of 25, okay, that's a good question.
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I mean, I play way too much Counter Strike.
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I mean, that was that was a that's a big one.
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Home Will was a was a was a game that I've
always liked kind of like the the adventure
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escapism of of of gaming and that, like, Justin
experiencing not gonna be able to experience in
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life.
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So just, you know, anything that is, like,
space related, future related.
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Like, I think it's always been a mind blowing
experience.
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So I think those 2 is where, but, like, Counter
Strike is a game that I played Justin way too
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too much of the game that I've played the most
in my life in terms of playing through,
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through, A single story line is, I think the
original modern warfare because when I was
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working on ghost recon, it's basically you, you
study content.
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Like, when you're in gaming, you play you don't
only play the games, but you study the game,
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you deconstruct them, you try to find all this,
all this scenario breakdowns, all the
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situation, stuff like that.
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And between Black Hawk down as a movie, which
is in my mind, the greatest military movie
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made, like ever made in terms of the richness
and the the quality of, like, the storytelling
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and the scenario, And, and the first one in
warfare, I think, like, I must have watched
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Blackhawk down 20 times with, like, taking
notes while watching it and stuff like that and
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same thing.
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Modern warfare, I probably played through the
the single player campaign, like, I don't know,
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ten times end to end.
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Just taking notes.
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Wow.
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And then after that, you can speed through it.
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It's kinda crazy, but, like, you're you're
basically trying to go back to a certain spot.
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Yeah.
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I mean, I'm a huge fan of the what was the team
infinity ward that was working on that?
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Like, those guys were elite at the time where
where the Foret modern warfare came out.
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Like, that was a really impressive team.
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Will.
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Okay.
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I appreciate that.
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I appreciate the modern warfare on Counter
Strike.
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I may or may not have, done a little bit of
that, a little too much of that.
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In my day.
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Look, you can still be successful later on in
life.
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I was just about to say that's that's that's a
big thing here.
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I think a lot of times we, you know, the
entrepreneur that grinds and it's all I do and
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all that stuff.
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It's like, I was playing games too.
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Like, that that was also happening.
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I was still enjoying my life.
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You know, not not being miserable.
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So
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I mean, this is how my my cofounder and I met
at Ubisoft like, even to this day, we're still
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getting together in the evening.
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That's kind of like our way to to chat about
work in a in a more relaxed environment.
230
00:11:19,345 --> 00:11:23,720
Like, grabbing a beer and you're gaming online,
which makes our watch like crazy because
231
00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:26,839
they're like, you see each other all day long
and you're gonna game with each other in the
232
00:11:26,839 --> 00:11:28,059
evening, but you know what?
233
00:11:28,235 --> 00:11:29,835
It works, and we have to explain to them.
234
00:11:29,835 --> 00:11:33,195
Like, the only reason that we are where we are
is because, like, we're we're serious gamers,
235
00:11:33,195 --> 00:11:34,735
and we we take our craft seriously.
236
00:11:34,795 --> 00:11:35,295
So,
237
00:11:35,995 --> 00:11:40,070
obviously, our audience is, owners, you know,
high level leaders at construction And
238
00:11:40,070 --> 00:11:41,830
Architecture Engineering Firms, right?
239
00:11:41,830 --> 00:11:47,004
But I think we might have a new audience now, a
new segment of just Neagle that are video
240
00:11:47,004 --> 00:11:49,804
gamers that want to be successful, not
necessarily in the
241
00:11:49,804 --> 00:11:50,125
game
242
00:11:50,125 --> 00:11:54,629
space, but, like, just wanna, like, hey, you
can still do this and have an amazing life.
243
00:11:54,629 --> 00:11:55,910
And that that's gonna be it.
244
00:11:55,910 --> 00:11:56,789
So, alright.
245
00:11:56,789 --> 00:11:57,669
So let's dive in.
246
00:11:57,669 --> 00:11:58,561
So you have five Neagle.
247
00:11:58,710 --> 00:11:59,610
You go to 250.
248
00:12:00,230 --> 00:12:00,730
Yep.
249
00:12:00,789 --> 00:12:05,944
That's that's massive growth in a very short,
amount of time what what what's the big
250
00:12:05,944 --> 00:12:06,444
differences?
251
00:12:06,584 --> 00:12:09,865
What changed in your life, what changed in the
culture?
252
00:12:09,865 --> 00:12:13,084
What like, what what were all the first that
you kind of experienced?
253
00:12:14,330 --> 00:12:15,070
It's interesting.
254
00:12:15,129 --> 00:12:21,450
I think there are there are definitely a couple
of phases and and what you focus on changes
255
00:12:21,450 --> 00:12:22,269
quite dramatically.
256
00:12:22,490 --> 00:12:28,855
So I think the 1st phase of the company is
probably when a company is between 0 and 1.
257
00:12:30,034 --> 00:12:36,649
I think it's the it's the product market fit
Foret, and I think that's where you have to you
258
00:12:36,649 --> 00:12:40,570
have to project very hard what your company
could be because you really have nothing to
259
00:12:40,570 --> 00:12:41,274
show for Right?
260
00:12:41,274 --> 00:12:44,154
It's just two people reasonably smart.
261
00:12:44,154 --> 00:12:48,875
You have a light track record, but nothing on
the scale of, like, we've already built one
262
00:12:48,875 --> 00:12:51,539
company, the our second one, you know, like,
that was our Foret company.
263
00:12:51,539 --> 00:12:53,399
So you have to convince everyone.
264
00:12:55,860 --> 00:12:59,625
So interestingly enough, it's very easy to be
bold when you're small.
265
00:12:59,684 --> 00:13:02,565
Like nobody knows you, nobody cares about what
you're doing.
266
00:13:02,565 --> 00:13:04,585
So you can Neagle do whatever you want.
267
00:13:04,809 --> 00:13:07,289
And worst case scenario, nobody ever knows
about it.
268
00:13:07,289 --> 00:13:10,250
In best case scenario, it actually works and
that works.
269
00:13:10,250 --> 00:13:12,029
So the problem is not being bold.
270
00:13:12,029 --> 00:13:16,485
The problem is is really a bad just I mean, I
would say almost being right.
271
00:13:16,485 --> 00:13:21,950
It's Justin, like, be very focused on on on
doing something, doing in right, and and
272
00:13:21,950 --> 00:13:22,429
surviving.
273
00:13:22,429 --> 00:13:24,370
Like your your goal is to exist.
274
00:13:24,669 --> 00:13:26,909
You exist, you know, like you're trying to find
a lawyer.
275
00:13:26,909 --> 00:13:31,414
You're trying to find you Foret, like, your
first investors, etcetera, you're trying to,
276
00:13:31,414 --> 00:13:35,654
like, it's very easy to die when you make less
than, I don't know, like, 10,000,000 a year.
277
00:13:35,654 --> 00:13:37,575
I think, like, for me, like, I always had that
vision.
278
00:13:37,575 --> 00:13:42,240
It's like, the day where we make 10,000,000,
you can't die anymore, like, or you can die,
279
00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:44,240
but it's gonna take 10, 20 years for you to
die.
280
00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:47,299
Like, there's so many levers you can pull when
you have a little bit of revenue.
281
00:13:47,415 --> 00:13:50,054
But when you're small, like, I mean, and we
almost died.
282
00:13:50,054 --> 00:13:53,735
I think we it was right before we raised our
series a.
283
00:13:53,735 --> 00:13:55,735
Like, we we flew very close to the sun.
284
00:13:55,735 --> 00:14:00,289
It's funny because our engineers were pretty
smart, and they could kinda see the writing on
285
00:14:00,289 --> 00:14:00,629
the Will.
286
00:14:00,690 --> 00:14:03,705
And, I I only learned that a couple years
after.
287
00:14:03,705 --> 00:14:08,504
But, like, one of our of our good friend who at
the time was our our head of engineering, Sam,
288
00:14:08,504 --> 00:14:10,424
told me it was like, yeah, I did some napkin
mess.
289
00:14:10,424 --> 00:14:11,289
It was like, okay.
290
00:14:11,289 --> 00:14:15,129
Guess I should start polishing my resume
because I think one day, he was gonna show up
291
00:14:15,129 --> 00:14:16,829
and tell us we don't have money anymore.
292
00:14:17,129 --> 00:14:21,855
And, so that was an example, but, but, then we
had good support from our investors.
293
00:14:21,855 --> 00:14:24,815
We actually had investors that were really
good, like, Bloomberg better and, like,
294
00:14:25,934 --> 00:14:27,475
awesome, awesome seed investors.
295
00:14:27,779 --> 00:14:28,660
And they had told us.
296
00:14:28,660 --> 00:14:29,779
And I was like, guys, don't worry.
297
00:14:29,779 --> 00:14:32,500
If you ever need money, just give us a call
within a week.
298
00:14:32,500 --> 00:14:36,634
We Will, we will be able to get you a little
bit of money on a on the same term as the seed
299
00:14:36,634 --> 00:14:36,875
point.
300
00:14:36,875 --> 00:14:41,835
So we actually took a lot of risk, but we
actually had a safety blanket, which is how you
301
00:14:41,835 --> 00:14:43,835
can take risk, you know, like, and that's a big
part.
302
00:14:43,835 --> 00:14:48,950
So that first part, like the 0 to 1,000,000 of
AR, I think it's really about existing and just
303
00:14:48,950 --> 00:14:52,330
making sure you don't run out of money because
that's that's what, that's what's difficult.
304
00:14:52,875 --> 00:14:56,955
We built it in a really strange way, because as
I said, like, we, we started distributing
305
00:14:56,955 --> 00:14:59,054
software and construction in the same way.
306
00:14:59,835 --> 00:15:04,649
We would, we would have done Like, what I love
about gaming is there's nobody telling you the
307
00:15:04,649 --> 00:15:05,610
value of the product.
308
00:15:05,610 --> 00:15:07,610
Nobody's explaining you how to play the game.
309
00:15:07,610 --> 00:15:12,995
And it was like, That is a standard that is
absolutely replicable in in a professional
310
00:15:12,995 --> 00:15:13,495
environment.
311
00:15:13,554 --> 00:15:17,809
Like, it's like games can be incredibly
complex, and people will go through, like, the
312
00:15:17,809 --> 00:15:20,850
hassle of of learning it because it's well
designed.
313
00:15:20,850 --> 00:15:21,830
It's well explained.
314
00:15:22,861 --> 00:15:25,455
Neagle, ultimately, like, there is no benefit
for them.
315
00:15:25,455 --> 00:15:27,215
It's not like they're filing their taxes,
right?
316
00:15:27,215 --> 00:15:31,610
So if they're ready to do that for fun, it's
absolutely believable that they will do that.
317
00:15:31,610 --> 00:15:33,209
Just kinda, like, helped them Will their job.
318
00:15:33,209 --> 00:15:36,350
So that was the standard, and we got there,
like, really, really quickly.
319
00:15:37,129 --> 00:15:40,875
Building a $1,000,000 bottom up, it's probably
not the fastest way to do it.
320
00:15:40,955 --> 00:15:48,014
But the great thing is when you do that, the
next 9,000,000 to go to 10 was like effortless.
321
00:15:48,429 --> 00:15:53,470
I mean, I'm I'm just making it a little bit
simpler, but there was literally no hack in the
322
00:15:53,470 --> 00:15:56,975
way we brought in our, our Foret $1,000,000 of
Justin.
323
00:15:56,975 --> 00:16:02,815
And then from 1 to 10, usually can be a very,
very hard journey because if you've sold the
324
00:16:02,914 --> 00:16:06,870
Foret Will yourself, like, as a founder,
because you're really inspirational, you're a
325
00:16:06,870 --> 00:16:10,889
great sales guy, you're not gonna be able to do
10 by yourself.
326
00:16:11,004 --> 00:16:12,605
Like, you're gonna need more people to do that.
327
00:16:12,605 --> 00:16:16,605
And they might not have the same skill that you
have if you're truly an amazing sales guy.
328
00:16:16,605 --> 00:16:22,629
And so for us, people Will downloading the
product, starting to use it, buying it, you
329
00:16:22,629 --> 00:16:23,910
know, we're not even talking to us.
330
00:16:23,910 --> 00:16:25,669
So we knew they were buying the product.
331
00:16:25,669 --> 00:16:27,924
They were not buying, like, what we were
telling them it.
332
00:16:27,924 --> 00:16:31,304
So that was, I think, like, the, the really
interesting first part of the journey.
333
00:16:31,445 --> 00:16:35,524
From 1 to 10 after that, as I said, it was
probably the easiest part of the company
334
00:16:35,524 --> 00:16:38,720
because we were less than fifty Neagle, so the
team wasn't big.
335
00:16:39,339 --> 00:16:40,799
Culture wasn't really challenging.
336
00:16:41,259 --> 00:16:45,039
And, and once again, we had built the Foret
mill without a hack, so it grew pretty well.
337
00:16:45,764 --> 00:16:49,865
10 to further, like, which is kinda like going
from 50 to, like, 200 employees.
338
00:16:50,004 --> 00:16:54,519
I mean, we went to actually about a 150 before
the acquisition Will healthy.
339
00:16:54,899 --> 00:16:57,080
That's when culture starts hitting you.
340
00:16:57,220 --> 00:16:58,980
That's when it becomes hard to be bold.
341
00:16:58,980 --> 00:17:03,054
Like, now you have a lot of customers in the
market, you know, every time you make a change,
342
00:17:03,054 --> 00:17:07,535
even if it's the greatest change in the Will,
and 99% of your customers are stoked about it,
343
00:17:07,535 --> 00:17:11,650
there's always 1% of the customers that Will
send you an email being This is unacceptable.
344
00:17:11,789 --> 00:17:13,070
This is not the right thing.
345
00:17:13,070 --> 00:17:17,809
And then you need to start really writing them
what do you actually believe in?
346
00:17:17,865 --> 00:17:20,744
And what are the use case that you're actually
trying to serve?
347
00:17:20,744 --> 00:17:22,265
What are the customers you're trying to serve?
348
00:17:22,265 --> 00:17:25,164
Because there's always a customer that wants
you to be sensing you're not.
349
00:17:25,180 --> 00:17:29,100
And then, like, you have to be like, it doesn't
matter if they wanna pay us money or not.
350
00:17:29,100 --> 00:17:31,259
Like, do we believe in what they're saying or
not?
351
00:17:31,259 --> 00:17:36,575
And and when you start doing that, like, you
start actually finding a way to be to be bold
352
00:17:36,575 --> 00:17:41,534
at the time where where sometimes people are
just, you know, nobody you you cannot make the
353
00:17:41,534 --> 00:17:42,335
entire world happy.
354
00:17:42,335 --> 00:17:44,660
So that was kind of like a kind of a journey.
355
00:17:44,799 --> 00:17:46,000
Scaling companies is hard.
356
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:46,980
Culture is hard.
357
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:53,484
I mean, culture becomes hard when you're not
directly connected to the people directly as a
358
00:17:53,484 --> 00:17:53,805
founder.
359
00:17:53,805 --> 00:17:57,805
I think the first fifty, seventy five people,
they probably know you very well intimately.
360
00:17:57,805 --> 00:18:00,865
And so the culture is kinda like how the
founders behave.
361
00:18:01,059 --> 00:18:06,579
When you go past that point, you don't spend
enough time with everyone so that they can
362
00:18:06,579 --> 00:18:07,779
actually adopt your values.
363
00:18:07,779 --> 00:18:09,960
You're not actually interviewing everyone
anymore.
364
00:18:10,434 --> 00:18:14,115
We try to meet everyone when they start, but
we, we haven't necessarily been part of their
365
00:18:14,115 --> 00:18:14,914
interview process.
366
00:18:14,914 --> 00:18:19,220
And then then you start recruiting people that
also have different forms of belief, which is
367
00:18:19,220 --> 00:18:19,380
cool.
368
00:18:19,380 --> 00:18:23,700
I don't think we need to agree on everything,
but I think there is a Foret sets of value that
369
00:18:23,700 --> 00:18:25,559
that we are we have to align on.
370
00:18:26,044 --> 00:18:28,444
And so I think that's the 2nd part of the of
the journey.
371
00:18:28,444 --> 00:18:29,424
That's a bit different.
372
00:18:29,964 --> 00:18:33,244
So, I mean, that piece for the from the high
level perspective, those are those are kinda
373
00:18:33,244 --> 00:18:34,160
like the big phases.
374
00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:38,419
And now we're in the post acquisition phase
where, you know, we grew from 150 to 150
375
00:18:38,888 --> 00:18:41,119
Neagle, much bigger company to interface Will.
376
00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:43,934
I mean, but we can talk that, like, as a
separate topic?
377
00:18:44,394 --> 00:18:44,714
Yes.
378
00:18:44,714 --> 00:18:48,474
So you you talked about being bold or being
radical, right?
379
00:18:48,474 --> 00:18:50,779
You know, you're just being being that Right?
380
00:18:50,779 --> 00:18:52,619
So that's that's part of the culture, right?
381
00:18:52,619 --> 00:18:54,400
Like, you're you're this is who we are.
382
00:18:54,460 --> 00:18:58,140
Now, Will comes in and says, hey, you know,
like, we were already, like, investing in you
383
00:18:58,140 --> 00:19:01,634
prior, but like, hey, like, We want we want we
want the whole pie.
384
00:19:01,634 --> 00:19:01,875
Right?
385
00:19:01,875 --> 00:19:03,794
Like, we want we want the whole thing.
386
00:19:03,794 --> 00:19:08,609
We want you to still run it and do that, but,
like, what what stressors is that put on?
387
00:19:08,609 --> 00:19:10,609
Like, you know, obviously this is very
different now.
388
00:19:10,609 --> 00:19:15,569
Now you're it's it's you've gone from this
thing that you created that was an idea that
389
00:19:15,569 --> 00:19:19,585
you, like, It's just like gaming and, like,
people love it and, like, all this stuff and,
390
00:19:19,585 --> 00:19:24,644
like, there's so much, like, energy and
boldness to the the con the concept.
391
00:19:25,090 --> 00:19:26,369
So then, like, oh, yeah.
392
00:19:26,369 --> 00:19:29,910
Like, Pilty is, like, like, one of the
construction.
393
00:19:30,049 --> 00:19:30,289
Right?
394
00:19:30,289 --> 00:19:30,450
Yeah.
395
00:19:30,450 --> 00:19:30,610
Yeah.
396
00:19:30,610 --> 00:19:33,490
It is, like, one of the ones that it's, like,
397
00:19:33,490 --> 00:19:34,070
oh, man.
398
00:19:34,130 --> 00:19:35,075
Now Yeah.
399
00:19:35,075 --> 00:19:38,375
Like, now it's a that's a it's like the the
game changed.
400
00:19:38,914 --> 00:19:41,335
Like, you did you're not playing the same game
anymore.
401
00:19:41,394 --> 00:19:41,875
Right?
402
00:19:41,875 --> 00:19:46,910
And how do you keep that bold or that
radicalness that got you to where you are with
403
00:19:46,910 --> 00:19:49,549
having this much larger umbrella above you?
404
00:19:49,549 --> 00:19:51,730
So that's a that's a that's a good question.
405
00:19:52,029 --> 00:19:53,250
How do we stay bold?
406
00:19:54,015 --> 00:19:56,654
Maybe we we we can backtrack to what was the
link between Fieldware and Hilti?
407
00:19:56,654 --> 00:20:06,410
I mean, the first investment, because they came
in at the Series B, like, completely randomly.
408
00:20:07,029 --> 00:20:11,765
They were visiting the valley, McKinsey, like,
the consultancy organized like a Silicon Valley
409
00:20:11,765 --> 00:20:12,325
tour for them.
410
00:20:12,325 --> 00:20:13,045
They called us.
411
00:20:13,045 --> 00:20:16,991
The McKinsey office was at the time a couple
blocks from our office, and they were like, do
412
00:20:16,991 --> 00:20:17,765
you want me to Will you?
413
00:20:17,765 --> 00:20:18,485
And we're like, sure.
414
00:20:18,485 --> 00:20:19,500
We'll Will come in healthy.
415
00:20:19,500 --> 00:20:21,839
Like, we had zero expectation from that
meeting.
416
00:20:21,980 --> 00:20:26,079
As we got to learn later, Will had zero
expectation from that meeting either.
417
00:20:26,140 --> 00:20:30,345
You know, basically, we we just came in and we
were like, I mean, the they were a little bit
418
00:20:30,345 --> 00:20:31,944
late to for the meeting to stop.
419
00:20:31,944 --> 00:20:36,585
And and I asked them, like, so what you know,
while we're waiting for the rest of the group
420
00:20:36,585 --> 00:20:37,880
to get to the meeting room.
421
00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:39,080
Like, what are you interested in?
422
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:41,240
Like, you know, and they said, like, oh,
really?
423
00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:42,039
Like, we're healthy.
424
00:20:42,039 --> 00:20:43,480
We do not invest in start ups.
425
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:45,240
So I wanna be very clear about that.
426
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:49,335
Like, we're just trying to learn And by the
way, you know, why did you show up?
427
00:20:49,335 --> 00:20:51,014
And at the time, I was a little bit upset.
428
00:20:51,014 --> 00:20:52,294
So I was like, you know what?
429
00:20:52,294 --> 00:20:55,269
We're 5 minutes from our office, and we never
know what comes out of those meetings.
430
00:20:55,349 --> 00:20:59,289
And so in that meeting, we start presenting
the, we start presenting the product.
431
00:20:59,589 --> 00:21:04,674
And then there's this realization that the
mission of field wire software, which is we try
432
00:21:04,674 --> 00:21:10,434
to bring productivity at the workplace, like,
in the craftman's end, which is exactly what
433
00:21:10,434 --> 00:21:11,190
Hilti does.
434
00:21:11,269 --> 00:21:15,450
Like, that's that same exact value prop, and
they see us pitching the company with software.
435
00:21:15,589 --> 00:21:19,585
And they're like, this is kinda crazy because
you replace software with hardware, And that's
436
00:21:19,585 --> 00:21:21,025
a pitch for a healthy tool.
437
00:21:21,025 --> 00:21:24,565
It's like, yes, it's it's more expensive than
the way you do it today.
438
00:21:24,704 --> 00:21:28,005
But if that's if that's your craft, is that
your job?
439
00:21:28,210 --> 00:21:31,589
Like, you will be better off with with a with a
healthy product.
440
00:21:31,890 --> 00:21:38,205
And and on top of it, there was something
really random, which is you know, in an
441
00:21:38,205 --> 00:21:43,085
unlikely turn of event, we had actually met a
healthy team earlier that year that was looking
442
00:21:43,085 --> 00:21:47,080
for apps to pre install on one of their range
binders, which Foret, like, just kinda, like,
443
00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:49,420
measurement, you know, distance measurement
tools.
444
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:51,080
And we had said, like, sure.
445
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:52,119
It takes us 5 minutes.
446
00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:55,565
Here's his RPK, like, start pre installing on
your Android device.
447
00:21:56,345 --> 00:21:59,144
And every time they were selling one of those
fields, was on it.
448
00:21:59,144 --> 00:22:02,990
And so we had a slide in that meeting to be
because, I mean, basically what happened is we
449
00:22:02,990 --> 00:22:04,509
realized the mission is the same.
450
00:22:04,509 --> 00:22:06,849
Management goes like, okay, we gotta work
together.
451
00:22:06,910 --> 00:22:07,950
Like, I really like those guys.
452
00:22:07,950 --> 00:22:08,549
Let's work together.
453
00:22:08,549 --> 00:22:10,525
It was like, oh, we're already working
together.
454
00:22:10,525 --> 00:22:14,365
By the way, every time you start, you'll learn
a song on it.
455
00:22:14,365 --> 00:22:17,484
And then you've never seen a meeting that just
blow up like that.
456
00:22:17,561 --> 00:22:19,164
Justin they were like, what's going on?
457
00:22:19,164 --> 00:22:19,670
You know?
458
00:22:19,670 --> 00:22:22,549
They're like, did you just slap your screenshot
on top of our devices?
459
00:22:22,549 --> 00:22:23,029
Like, no.
460
00:22:23,029 --> 00:22:23,190
No.
461
00:22:23,190 --> 00:22:23,269
No.
462
00:22:23,269 --> 00:22:24,309
Like, we're we're pre installing.
463
00:22:24,309 --> 00:22:26,330
You're pre installing Fieldwire on your
devices.
464
00:22:26,710 --> 00:22:28,150
And and so they were like, okay.
465
00:22:28,150 --> 00:22:29,674
This is just too insane.
466
00:22:30,615 --> 00:22:34,455
And they walked out of that meeting, and, and
their CFO at the time was like, okay, we want
467
00:22:34,455 --> 00:22:35,015
to invest.
468
00:22:35,015 --> 00:22:36,009
How do we do that?
469
00:22:36,009 --> 00:22:39,450
And and we're like, okay, we're in the middle
of actually raising our Series B.
470
00:22:39,450 --> 00:22:43,470
We don't want you to take a a majority position
in that because, like, we don't want,
471
00:22:44,515 --> 00:22:45,974
Scare Scalar investors.
472
00:22:46,434 --> 00:22:46,595
Yeah.
473
00:22:46,595 --> 00:22:46,835
Yeah.
474
00:22:46,835 --> 00:22:50,855
Like, we like we like VC money because VC money
is clean from a signaling perspective.
475
00:22:50,914 --> 00:22:56,340
Like, VCs only care about the commercial
success of the company, which makes it very,
476
00:22:56,340 --> 00:22:56,980
very clean.
477
00:22:56,980 --> 00:22:59,140
Like, if a VC invests, it just means it's good.
478
00:22:59,140 --> 00:23:03,775
When a corporate invest they can be a lot of,
like, kind of like other intentions behind it.
479
00:23:03,775 --> 00:23:07,075
And, and so we don't want too much of a round
to be, to be corporate.
480
00:23:07,215 --> 00:23:08,414
And so that worked great.
481
00:23:08,414 --> 00:23:12,700
We closed our Series B, By the way, at the end
of the series B, Hilti Justin out of just she
482
00:23:12,700 --> 00:23:13,740
on ST was like, Hey, guys.
483
00:23:13,740 --> 00:23:15,259
I wanna be very, very clear.
484
00:23:15,259 --> 00:23:18,380
We invested in fieldwork, but Hilti doesn't
acquire a start up.
485
00:23:18,380 --> 00:23:19,825
So Just that will never happen.
486
00:23:19,825 --> 00:23:20,944
And we're like, yeah, no problem.
487
00:23:20,944 --> 00:23:23,505
You know, so why did we take the investment at
the time?
488
00:23:23,505 --> 00:23:27,430
Because we're excited about the distribution
power of Will.
489
00:23:27,570 --> 00:23:32,210
Like, Hilti has this incredible model where
they have like, I don't know, 20,000 people in
490
00:23:32,210 --> 00:23:32,590
the Will.
491
00:23:32,825 --> 00:23:37,384
That Justin get in the red, healthy cars, go
visit the job sites, just bring the tools
492
00:23:37,384 --> 00:23:41,224
directly to the people that are on the site,
and that's the level of relationship that you
493
00:23:41,224 --> 00:23:46,259
don't find anywhere And so we're like, just
imagine if we could leverage that to just reach
494
00:23:46,259 --> 00:23:48,840
customer with Fieldwire, like, that would be a
massive acceleration.
495
00:23:49,140 --> 00:23:51,555
So none of that actually happened investment.
496
00:23:51,615 --> 00:23:52,975
Like, we tried to submit it.
497
00:23:52,975 --> 00:23:54,755
It's impossible to get it.
498
00:23:54,894 --> 00:24:00,039
But that being said, 4 years later, Will came
back and he was like, Do you guys remember how
499
00:24:00,039 --> 00:24:01,819
we said we would never acquire a start?
500
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,539
Well, that, you know, now it's it's our top
priority.
501
00:24:04,839 --> 00:24:06,359
Would you consider working with us?
502
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:10,785
And we're like, Have you ever acquired a start
up, like, of, you know, software start up,
503
00:24:10,785 --> 00:24:11,424
like, field buyer?
504
00:24:11,424 --> 00:24:12,065
They're like, no.
505
00:24:12,065 --> 00:24:12,465
Like, no.
506
00:24:12,465 --> 00:24:14,705
That scale is like, well, let's be honest with
each other.
507
00:24:14,705 --> 00:24:17,589
The the chance of success are very low.
508
00:24:17,970 --> 00:24:21,809
But, you know, if we run a good process and we
find that there is something that works, let's
509
00:24:21,809 --> 00:24:22,130
do it.
510
00:24:22,130 --> 00:24:23,889
And we said, let's do Foret meetings.
511
00:24:23,889 --> 00:24:28,065
And if at the end of meetings, we can agree on
the vision and on the price, then we will do
512
00:24:28,065 --> 00:24:29,525
due diligence and we'll exploit.
513
00:24:29,744 --> 00:24:30,625
And that's what happened.
514
00:24:30,625 --> 00:24:32,644
It's the most unlikely of all acquisitions.
515
00:24:33,140 --> 00:24:34,580
I don't think they saw it coming.
516
00:24:34,580 --> 00:24:36,100
I don't think we saw it coming.
517
00:24:36,100 --> 00:24:39,380
And in the end, I think it ended up being one
of the acquisitions that has made the most
518
00:24:39,380 --> 00:24:40,440
sense in the industry.
519
00:24:40,884 --> 00:24:42,825
Compared to other ones that you've seen
recently.
520
00:24:43,684 --> 00:24:43,924
Wow.
521
00:24:43,924 --> 00:24:44,424
Wow.
522
00:24:44,644 --> 00:24:46,184
Match match made in heaven.
523
00:24:46,244 --> 00:24:46,484
Right?
524
00:24:46,484 --> 00:24:46,724
Yeah.
525
00:24:46,724 --> 00:24:46,884
No.
526
00:24:46,884 --> 00:24:47,545
It's tough.
527
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,480
And so, you know, back to back to kind of like
so it starts with the mission.
528
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:52,940
The mission was really good.
529
00:24:53,159 --> 00:24:55,244
I think a lot of the values were common.
530
00:24:55,244 --> 00:24:57,244
Know craftsmanship is our number one value.
531
00:24:57,244 --> 00:25:01,265
I think that's also what connects us to the
industry, but that's also a very, very core,
532
00:25:01,404 --> 00:25:07,819
you know, Will likes, I mean, almost over
engineering going the extra mile when nobody
533
00:25:07,819 --> 00:25:10,859
else is, and and, you know, we find ourselves
in that value.
534
00:25:10,859 --> 00:25:12,480
So I think that's that's pretty good.
535
00:25:12,634 --> 00:25:17,399
So now in terms of staying bold, which was, I
think, where we started, in those Foret
536
00:25:17,515 --> 00:25:23,920
meetings that I talked about, the first meeting
was you are the big fish in this relationship,
537
00:25:24,539 --> 00:25:28,460
meaning that and on top of it, you're you're
you're the buyer in this relationship, which
538
00:25:28,460 --> 00:25:29,920
gives you a little bit of weight.
539
00:25:30,674 --> 00:25:32,934
We wanna hear the vision that you have for
software.
540
00:25:33,075 --> 00:25:34,115
Where are you going?
541
00:25:34,115 --> 00:25:38,880
Because we know that if that vision is not
compatible with our vision, Like, we're not
542
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,220
gonna be able to change it or to alter it
significantly.
543
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:47,775
And they literally pitched what we had in mind
for where field wire was to go.
544
00:25:47,775 --> 00:25:51,295
And and literally, at the end of that first
meeting, I told them, like, are you telling us
545
00:25:51,295 --> 00:25:53,615
what we wanna hear, or is this really what you
believe in?
546
00:25:53,615 --> 00:25:55,615
And and I think that's really what they
believed in.
547
00:25:55,615 --> 00:26:00,859
And so a key part for us to be able to stay
bold was to maintain a certain level of
548
00:26:00,859 --> 00:26:02,859
operational autonomy, and I was very clear.
549
00:26:02,859 --> 00:26:07,994
I was like, If we do this and if we're really
serious about making it successful, I think we
550
00:26:07,994 --> 00:26:13,855
need to be, we need to be very mindful about
preserving organizational speed in the company.
551
00:26:14,190 --> 00:26:16,130
And that means a certain level of independence.
552
00:26:16,190 --> 00:26:17,710
And so I think we're getting that.
553
00:26:17,710 --> 00:26:20,289
I think it's been actually a fairly incredible
journey.
554
00:26:20,669 --> 00:26:26,404
I'm part of, like, you know, CEO groups where
we exchange, we trade notes to see, like, you
555
00:26:26,404 --> 00:26:30,805
know, we can pair each other's business to, to
make sure, to find good ideas and to help each
556
00:26:30,805 --> 00:26:31,305
other.
557
00:26:31,445 --> 00:26:37,829
I think most acquisitions and end up in in
object failure, I think 90% of them will will
558
00:26:37,829 --> 00:26:40,875
more be like kind of like less good than, than
not.
559
00:26:40,875 --> 00:26:42,315
I think we're in the 10% right now.
560
00:26:42,315 --> 00:26:44,735
I think like the business has been expanding,
like, dramatically.
561
00:26:45,434 --> 00:26:47,674
You know, the support of the buyer has been
incredible.
562
00:26:47,674 --> 00:26:51,420
I mean, like, we've doubled the team in size I
mean, not quite, but, like, you know, very
563
00:26:51,420 --> 00:26:53,600
significantly since we've been here.
564
00:26:54,299 --> 00:26:56,539
And, yeah, it it's it's been Justin.
565
00:26:56,539 --> 00:27:01,345
And and I and I do believe that, like, you
know, this this is this will end up being like
566
00:27:01,345 --> 00:27:06,625
a an impact multiplier for for Will wire as a
company, which ultimately is my is my goal at
567
00:27:06,625 --> 00:27:07,684
the end of the day.
568
00:27:09,179 --> 00:27:13,419
So when so when you start, obviously, you're in
development already.
569
00:27:13,419 --> 00:27:14,460
So you start this.
570
00:27:14,460 --> 00:27:17,099
Obviously, you had to have been doing some some
form of coding.
571
00:27:17,099 --> 00:27:17,305
Right?
572
00:27:17,305 --> 00:27:19,164
Right, that had to be a piece of oyster.
573
00:27:19,625 --> 00:27:24,105
So at what point is that like because this this
happens with GC subs, right?
574
00:27:24,105 --> 00:27:26,445
Like they they're they're the they're the
hammer.
575
00:27:26,569 --> 00:27:27,929
Like, they're doing the work.
576
00:27:27,929 --> 00:27:33,049
And they get to a certain point where it's
like, I can't I can't do this and grow the
577
00:27:33,049 --> 00:27:33,450
business.
578
00:27:33,450 --> 00:27:35,414
Like, that's not how like, this doesn't work
that way.
579
00:27:35,494 --> 00:27:40,855
So, like, what what stage you did you find,
like, man, we hit fifty people and it's like, I
580
00:27:40,855 --> 00:27:48,320
need to just go work on strategy or, vision or,
like, I need to think about more people Foret
581
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:53,680
processes in comparison to, like, doing the
specialty work that you're actually delivering
582
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:54,580
to the end user.
583
00:27:54,684 --> 00:27:56,044
That's a that's a good question.
584
00:27:56,044 --> 00:28:04,470
So you take the Foret prototype of field wire
who's basically like just me doing that nights
585
00:28:04,470 --> 00:28:08,730
and weekend, you know, just the design, the
code, the the everything, right?
586
00:28:09,109 --> 00:28:15,994
Then we raise some money, and and Javed joined,
like, as as as cofounder, the next step after
587
00:28:15,994 --> 00:28:22,700
that was I probably kept coding for probably
the 1st year But then we started hiring 3
588
00:28:22,700 --> 00:28:26,299
engineers that were better programmers than I I
mean, Foret of all, we had to the thing that I
589
00:28:26,299 --> 00:28:29,340
had written, which was, which Justin quite a
bit of work.
590
00:28:29,340 --> 00:28:31,884
Like, you just scraped that up are still small
parts of the code.
591
00:28:31,884 --> 00:28:34,605
Like, our CTO was telling me the other day,
there Will still some parts of the code that
592
00:28:34,605 --> 00:28:35,325
are still mine.
593
00:28:35,325 --> 00:28:37,809
But, I mean, I recommend we get rid of all of
that.
594
00:28:38,769 --> 00:28:40,529
And There's just
595
00:28:40,529 --> 00:28:41,410
a little there's
596
00:28:41,410 --> 00:28:42,289
a little
597
00:28:42,289 --> 00:28:44,049
line that I know is me.
598
00:28:44,049 --> 00:28:46,184
That's that's how I know the ship still fun.
599
00:28:46,484 --> 00:28:51,045
The the size of projects we do nowadays is a
little bit incompatible with the performance of
600
00:28:51,045 --> 00:28:52,744
the code that I must have written originally.
601
00:28:52,964 --> 00:28:54,984
But, yeah, so I stopped programming.
602
00:28:55,220 --> 00:29:01,859
So, basically, I was I was overseeing Will R
and D, so engineering product design, and Javed
603
00:29:01,859 --> 00:29:03,775
was doing every other job in the company.
604
00:29:03,775 --> 00:29:08,575
Like, which was hilarious because we had to
change, like, on on Foret, you know, it would
605
00:29:08,575 --> 00:29:09,214
say Javed.
606
00:29:09,214 --> 00:29:12,174
And one time there's a, you know, initially,
you don't care about it.
607
00:29:12,174 --> 00:29:16,079
But at some point, some customer customers
started asking, are you like, the job at
608
00:29:16,079 --> 00:29:19,599
question mark as the cofounder of the company
is answering this Foret call?
609
00:29:19,599 --> 00:29:20,240
It was like, okay.
610
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:21,279
We we gotta change that.
611
00:29:21,279 --> 00:29:24,095
I think we renamed Foret, like, Samantha or
something like that.
612
00:29:24,095 --> 00:29:26,754
You know, like, something that would be a
little a little less obvious.
613
00:29:27,375 --> 00:29:33,190
So, yeah, I stopped I stopped programming Then
after that, I stopped doing design, but I kept
614
00:29:33,190 --> 00:29:36,230
product for a long time because I think that
was kinda like the the core.
615
00:29:36,230 --> 00:29:40,714
At the core, I think we're a product company,
and and that's where most of the beliefs are
616
00:29:40,774 --> 00:29:41,274
contained.
617
00:29:41,734 --> 00:29:45,335
And then I think we went pretty Foret.
618
00:29:45,335 --> 00:29:49,580
Then we have our current head of product that
joined the teams, Stefan, that that we ramped
619
00:29:49,580 --> 00:29:49,740
up.
620
00:29:49,740 --> 00:29:53,420
So Foret of all, you stop being a a frontline
product manager.
621
00:29:53,420 --> 00:29:57,204
So you have another person doing product,
meaning that when you're in holiday, like, on
622
00:29:57,204 --> 00:30:01,605
holiday, like, not not everything stops, you
know, and then at some point, started doing
623
00:30:01,605 --> 00:30:02,484
more CO stuff.
624
00:30:02,484 --> 00:30:09,210
But I think the CO stuff really started around,
yeah, probably 50, once again, seventy five
625
00:30:09,210 --> 00:30:12,269
people when you start doing, a little bit more
of that stuff.
626
00:30:12,884 --> 00:30:16,724
And we're a company that we're massive
believers in execution.
627
00:30:16,724 --> 00:30:20,244
We always say, like, 10% strategy, 90%
execution.
628
00:30:20,244 --> 00:30:21,318
That's that's how we Will.
629
00:30:21,445 --> 00:30:24,390
You know, like, it's I think we have really
smart people.
630
00:30:24,390 --> 00:30:26,390
So getting to the what do we need to do?
631
00:30:26,390 --> 00:30:30,309
Usually, we can get there in, like, in, like,
15 minutes in a discussion.
632
00:30:30,309 --> 00:30:33,295
And then after that, we know there is of work
to actually make it happen.
633
00:30:33,295 --> 00:30:36,654
So we don't we don't spend too much time
discussing stuff too long, but then then we
634
00:30:36,654 --> 00:30:40,230
spend a lot of time just kinda like making sure
we're super precise in how we do it.
635
00:30:40,470 --> 00:30:47,349
Interestingly enough, I think we ran our 1st
true strategy exercise post acquisition by
636
00:30:47,349 --> 00:30:47,849
Hilti.
637
00:30:48,785 --> 00:30:54,945
That is the moment where, you know, I think we
I think it was in everybody's head, you know,
638
00:30:54,945 --> 00:30:59,500
like, and I think the key people knew this So
early on, everybody knows the strat because
639
00:30:59,500 --> 00:31:01,500
you're so small that everybody has perfect
context.
640
00:31:01,500 --> 00:31:05,903
And at some point, all the key people know the
strat, but there's not that many more Neagle.
641
00:31:05,980 --> 00:31:07,440
So it kinda spreads okay.
642
00:31:07,534 --> 00:31:12,095
But I think it's when you pass, like, a 100,
150 people that that you really need to nail
643
00:31:12,095 --> 00:31:16,980
the strat in a way that even the individual
person that is not exposed to it directly, gets
644
00:31:16,980 --> 00:31:17,460
it.
645
00:31:17,460 --> 00:31:20,680
But so that's the first time that we started
doing, like, yearly planning.
646
00:31:20,740 --> 00:31:25,299
I maybe we run 1, 1 yearly planning strat
before the acquisition and after that, it's
647
00:31:25,299 --> 00:31:28,634
been So, yeah, so we're we're growing slowly,
but we're trying hard.
648
00:31:28,634 --> 00:31:28,875
You know?
649
00:31:28,875 --> 00:31:29,115
So
650
00:31:30,554 --> 00:31:35,079
I I wouldn't I I wouldn't say growing slowly
would be a good, Okay.
651
00:31:35,079 --> 00:31:35,720
We're learning.
652
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:36,779
We're learning slowly.
653
00:31:36,919 --> 00:31:37,399
There we go.
654
00:31:37,399 --> 00:31:38,200
Going just fine.
655
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:38,279
Yeah.
656
00:31:38,279 --> 00:31:38,779
Yeah.
657
00:31:41,835 --> 00:31:42,494
Hey, everybody.
658
00:31:42,714 --> 00:31:43,615
Justin here.
659
00:31:43,755 --> 00:31:45,934
Thank you so much for listening to this
episode.
660
00:31:46,555 --> 00:31:51,160
As you know, Will and I are business nerds and
love talking to leaders who've scaled their
661
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,299
businesses using people, process, and
technology.
662
00:31:55,079 --> 00:31:59,384
If that's something that gets you all jazzed up
too, then do me a favor and hit the subscribe
663
00:31:59,384 --> 00:31:59,884
button.
664
00:32:00,265 --> 00:32:05,224
Don't forget to hit the little bell so you get
notified every time we drop a sweet new
665
00:32:05,224 --> 00:32:05,724
episode.
666
00:32:06,509 --> 00:32:10,929
And if you know somebody who'd be an awesome
guest on the show, send them our way.
667
00:32:10,990 --> 00:32:15,244
Just go to building scale.net slash guest.
668
00:32:16,184 --> 00:32:17,884
Now, back to the episode.
669
00:32:19,704 --> 00:32:24,389
So we talked you know, a good amount about
people and culture.
670
00:32:24,609 --> 00:32:30,609
And it seems like you're able to preserve
definitely a big piece of your culture,
671
00:32:30,609 --> 00:32:37,174
especially post transition now, and you've
alleviated some of those worries.
672
00:32:37,955 --> 00:32:45,869
So when you were first doing this, was culture
something that was really on top of your mind
673
00:32:46,684 --> 00:32:52,765
or did it become a thing when there were actual
serious talks about acquisition Foret something
674
00:32:52,765 --> 00:32:53,325
in between?
675
00:32:53,325 --> 00:32:53,484
No.
676
00:32:53,484 --> 00:32:53,724
No.
677
00:32:53,724 --> 00:32:56,035
I think culture was on our mind very, very
Neagle.
678
00:32:56,990 --> 00:33:03,890
So the the 3 core values, I think, a field wire
were craftsmanship, trust, and exploration.
679
00:33:04,349 --> 00:33:09,454
So craftsmanship was mean, obviously Craft
mentioned, I, you know, like, I think valve,
680
00:33:09,454 --> 00:33:13,375
like, the gaming company had released, like,
many years ago, like, they're they're hiring
681
00:33:13,375 --> 00:33:18,140
handbook in which talk about T shaped people,
meaning that everybody has a reason for being
682
00:33:18,140 --> 00:33:22,355
in the team because they have a very deep
knowledge somewhere, but but they have a
683
00:33:22,355 --> 00:33:25,154
horizontal knowledge that allows them to
participate with others.
684
00:33:25,154 --> 00:33:31,609
But so craftsmanship is about that deep
knowledge is that we believe in people just
685
00:33:31,609 --> 00:33:36,170
commenting to a craft and becoming extremely
good at it and and getting to a point where at
686
00:33:36,170 --> 00:33:39,575
field wire, we'd like to say that it's not a
question of whether something is possible.
687
00:33:39,575 --> 00:33:42,134
It's a question of how long is it gonna take us
to do it?
688
00:33:42,134 --> 00:33:46,809
And that's that's an amazing skill to have on
your team, like, because Foret some teams, some
689
00:33:46,809 --> 00:33:50,890
things, some projects are just out of reach,
you just don't have the Will set to make it
690
00:33:50,890 --> 00:33:51,210
happen.
691
00:33:51,210 --> 00:33:54,250
Like, most of the time when we wanna do
something, we can do it.
692
00:33:54,250 --> 00:33:55,384
We can figure it out.
693
00:33:55,464 --> 00:33:56,424
Question is like, okay.
694
00:33:56,424 --> 00:33:58,105
How much resources does that represent?
695
00:33:58,105 --> 00:34:00,345
How how long do we need to make it happen?
696
00:34:00,345 --> 00:34:02,125
So that's the craftsmanship part.
697
00:34:02,184 --> 00:34:07,390
The trust part Foret for us, it's Justin.
698
00:34:07,390 --> 00:34:11,170
Trust is not given it is earned, and usually it
comes from craftsmanship.
699
00:34:11,309 --> 00:34:16,054
And it it's like we're very trust based on any
Like, nobody is gonna come behind you to check
700
00:34:16,194 --> 00:34:18,914
whether what you said you were gonna do is done
or not.
701
00:34:18,914 --> 00:34:23,650
But then after that, you see the word splitting
in two groups of Neagle, the people that do
702
00:34:23,650 --> 00:34:26,070
what they say they're gonna do and the people
that don't.
703
00:34:26,210 --> 00:34:31,010
And the people that don't have a very hard time
at Field Will, because we're maybe we're a bit
704
00:34:31,010 --> 00:34:35,714
impatient on that kind of stuff, but, like, we
are a very, like, hard trust based
705
00:34:35,714 --> 00:34:36,214
organization.
706
00:34:36,355 --> 00:34:40,034
Like, the relationship that I have with my co
founders Foret, like, the key execs that have
707
00:34:40,034 --> 00:34:45,510
been with us for 6 to 8 years, I think we enjoy
working Will each other because everybody's so
708
00:34:45,510 --> 00:34:51,304
freaking reliable that we can have a chat and
they say, I got this, or you're taking that,
709
00:34:51,385 --> 00:34:52,905
and you know that it will happen.
710
00:34:52,905 --> 00:34:55,304
And, you know, like, those are the people you
wanna go to always.
711
00:34:55,304 --> 00:34:57,005
Like, they're they're awesome.
712
00:34:57,065 --> 00:35:01,289
And when stuff gets tough or when you're trying
to do really hard thing, it's gonna work.
713
00:35:01,449 --> 00:35:05,530
Because those guys will do it like 90 plus
percent, like high conversion people.
714
00:35:05,530 --> 00:35:06,890
So that's the trust part Foret me.
715
00:35:06,890 --> 00:35:08,829
Like, that part of the culture is essential.
716
00:35:09,144 --> 00:35:13,005
And the third part was exploration, it's it's
kind of back to that being bold.
717
00:35:13,144 --> 00:35:17,385
It's like, why are we here and not at just
like, I don't know, PG and E or something like
718
00:35:17,385 --> 00:35:17,885
that?
719
00:35:18,039 --> 00:35:22,280
It's because we wanna go to places where we've
not when people haven't been before, right?
720
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,159
We we're trying to do things in a way that's
different.
721
00:35:25,159 --> 00:35:29,785
You know, the way we started distributing field
wire was different, the the the the model of
722
00:35:29,785 --> 00:35:34,445
doing bottom up directly to Craftman in 2013
was unheard of.
723
00:35:34,585 --> 00:35:35,704
And and you know what?
724
00:35:35,704 --> 00:35:37,300
We were like, we know it's possible.
725
00:35:37,300 --> 00:35:39,619
It's just that nobody actually has actually
done it.
726
00:35:39,619 --> 00:35:40,119
Right?
727
00:35:40,260 --> 00:35:46,914
And we would go on job site back in, like, 2013
early, like, And people would throw us out of
728
00:35:46,914 --> 00:35:47,635
construction jobs.
729
00:35:47,635 --> 00:35:51,315
Like, they were like, you're crazy, a craftsman
and kinda barely use a pen.
730
00:35:51,315 --> 00:35:54,119
Like, they're not gonna be able to use a smart
It was like, oh my god.
731
00:35:54,119 --> 00:35:54,679
You're so wrong.
732
00:35:54,679 --> 00:35:55,880
Like, this this will happen.
733
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:57,219
Like, the writing is on the Will.
734
00:35:57,319 --> 00:35:59,639
Like, Justin whether you believe it or not.
735
00:35:59,639 --> 00:36:03,414
And so I think those those values were there
from the get go.
736
00:36:03,414 --> 00:36:09,130
And I think you type the top 50 people that
feel, feel Will like the people that I think we
737
00:36:09,130 --> 00:36:13,289
personally were involved in hiring, I think
that's the core that really believed in that
738
00:36:13,289 --> 00:36:13,769
same.
739
00:36:13,769 --> 00:36:17,545
Then what happens when your company grows a
bigger is that I think you still believe in
740
00:36:17,545 --> 00:36:21,785
those same values, but sometimes you start
seeing that there are moments in your
741
00:36:21,785 --> 00:36:27,269
organization when the behaviors don't reflect
the values that that you're supposedly all
742
00:36:27,269 --> 00:36:28,070
believing in.
743
00:36:28,070 --> 00:36:32,494
And so that's the moment where you need to
really write them down and reinforce them and
744
00:36:32,494 --> 00:36:37,535
and just make sure that that people can know
and understand the value and that it actually
745
00:36:37,535 --> 00:36:42,019
influences the behavior of the company even
when they're not spending all their time with
746
00:36:42,019 --> 00:36:42,099
you.
747
00:36:42,099 --> 00:36:44,019
And I think that's the part that was really
difficult.
748
00:36:44,019 --> 00:36:50,385
I think it's the part when you go from 50 to a
150 where How do you go from values that are
749
00:36:50,385 --> 00:36:54,945
learned by spending time together to values
that are just kinda like learn through other
750
00:36:54,945 --> 00:36:55,184
means?
751
00:36:55,184 --> 00:36:58,690
Like, you have to reinforce them in your hiring
process, like, in a formal way, right?
752
00:36:58,690 --> 00:37:03,969
You have to reinforce them in your evaluations
in a formal way, and you have to find forms to
753
00:37:03,969 --> 00:37:04,609
just spread them.
754
00:37:04,609 --> 00:37:05,809
So I think that's the hard part.
755
00:37:05,809 --> 00:37:10,954
I think we believe in the values from the get
go, when you scale, it can be hard to actually
756
00:37:11,355 --> 00:37:12,494
it's back to execution.
757
00:37:12,554 --> 00:37:14,655
How do you execute, like, your values?
758
00:37:15,119 --> 00:37:16,559
At the scale of an larger company.
759
00:37:16,559 --> 00:37:18,340
That's the that's the part that is really
challenging.
760
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:23,405
I don't know if we have entirely the answer,
but, but, yeah, we started doing it way more
761
00:37:23,405 --> 00:37:25,885
when when we started going past 100 employees.
762
00:37:25,885 --> 00:37:26,385
Yeah.
763
00:37:27,485 --> 00:37:27,985
K.
764
00:37:29,405 --> 00:37:29,985
So interesting.
765
00:37:30,844 --> 00:37:31,005
So
766
00:37:31,164 --> 00:37:35,329
It also makes me think of, the the Blackberry
versus iPhone.
767
00:37:35,389 --> 00:37:35,549
Right?
768
00:37:35,549 --> 00:37:38,210
Like, it is, like, nobody's gonna use a
touchscreen.
769
00:37:38,510 --> 00:37:40,049
Nobody's doing that.
770
00:37:40,269 --> 00:37:43,010
They want their buttons and they, like, double
down.
771
00:37:43,344 --> 00:37:46,864
On this concept until they then didn't double
down on it.
772
00:37:46,864 --> 00:37:50,565
And then obviously, the the history speaks for
itself.
773
00:37:50,625 --> 00:37:58,849
So being bold and being seeing what the future
is is is going to be, huge.
774
00:37:58,849 --> 00:37:59,090
So
775
00:37:59,329 --> 00:37:59,650
Yep.
776
00:37:59,650 --> 00:38:04,755
So speaking of future, Will don't we talk a
little bit about What do you see as the main
777
00:38:04,755 --> 00:38:07,335
thing that's broken in construction today?
778
00:38:08,994 --> 00:38:10,214
That's a good question.
779
00:38:12,609 --> 00:38:16,609
I was reading something interesting this
morning, and I think he was talking about
780
00:38:16,609 --> 00:38:19,329
sustainability in the market, in the
construction market.
781
00:38:19,329 --> 00:38:23,315
And then somebody said, like, being more
sustainable in the construction market.
782
00:38:23,315 --> 00:38:26,515
I think it was the founder of Fitwall and
Brandon Wallace.
783
00:38:26,515 --> 00:38:30,900
And he was saying, not only is it good, but it
is now profitable.
784
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:38,454
And he was saying, like, it needs to be said
because, you know, Neagle are passionate about
785
00:38:38,454 --> 00:38:42,934
about certain causes or certain problems in the
Will, and that can push the awareness or like
786
00:38:42,934 --> 00:38:45,619
the the world in that direction up to a certain
point.
787
00:38:45,619 --> 00:38:49,140
But if you really wanna make everybody
participate, I think it needs to be
788
00:38:49,140 --> 00:38:51,880
economically supported.
789
00:38:52,260 --> 00:38:56,664
Like, basically, if it becomes the right thing
to do even from a from an economic perspective,
790
00:38:56,664 --> 00:39:00,264
then suddenly the entire world is not doing it,
not just the people that believe in it.
791
00:39:00,264 --> 00:39:01,485
That's the beauty of capitalism.
792
00:39:01,869 --> 00:39:05,890
Is that you don't need to believe in something
if it's economically profitable.
793
00:39:06,430 --> 00:39:11,184
What what I think he's lagging in the industry
right now is the the business model in
794
00:39:11,184 --> 00:39:12,324
construct of construction.
795
00:39:12,385 --> 00:39:19,660
I think we've seen very little innovation in in
the nature of the contracts that are being
796
00:39:19,660 --> 00:39:20,160
signed.
797
00:39:20,219 --> 00:39:20,960
It's available.
798
00:39:21,420 --> 00:39:25,739
There are plenty of very modern contracts out
there, but I would say, do they represent the
799
00:39:25,739 --> 00:39:26,940
vast majority of the market?
800
00:39:26,940 --> 00:39:27,099
No.
801
00:39:27,099 --> 00:39:27,534
They on.
802
00:39:27,534 --> 00:39:30,594
The vast majority of the market is still hard
bid.
803
00:39:30,815 --> 00:39:35,614
I'm passing the risks down to to, like, the GC
and then the GC is passing the risk down to the
804
00:39:35,614 --> 00:39:36,114
subs.
805
00:39:36,619 --> 00:39:38,140
That's still how the market works.
806
00:39:38,140 --> 00:39:41,340
And what is the problem with that is that it
really doesn't encourage any sort of
807
00:39:41,340 --> 00:39:43,579
collaboration, you know, between the actors.
808
00:39:43,579 --> 00:39:46,155
Everybody's really trying to Justin their best.
809
00:39:46,315 --> 00:39:50,875
In isolation of the others because, you know,
there is there is no benefit for the people
810
00:39:50,875 --> 00:39:53,994
that have Justin risk them to, I don't know, be
ahead of time.
811
00:39:53,994 --> 00:39:58,670
I mean, look, If you take a general contractor
in the market, and I like I like to talk about
812
00:39:58,670 --> 00:40:02,269
GCs because they're a little bit at the at the
center, and I have a ton of friends that are
813
00:40:02,269 --> 00:40:07,934
just really good TCs around the around
California, and and one of them was explaining
814
00:40:07,934 --> 00:40:09,135
it to me one day.
815
00:40:09,135 --> 00:40:13,315
It was like, there is no benefit for me to be
ahead of time.
816
00:40:13,750 --> 00:40:14,969
Or to be under budget.
817
00:40:16,070 --> 00:40:19,289
You know, and and why, like, there is actually
a good rational.
818
00:40:19,349 --> 00:40:25,025
If you're ahead of time, your customer is going
to be like, well, I'm not ready to take over
819
00:40:25,025 --> 00:40:28,065
the facility Foret, like, you know, like, I
couldn't plan around that.
820
00:40:28,065 --> 00:40:32,849
If you're under budget and, like, let's say you
work with, like, like, a, like, a, like, a
821
00:40:32,849 --> 00:40:33,570
health care company.
822
00:40:33,570 --> 00:40:34,849
They're gonna be like, well, that sucks.
823
00:40:34,849 --> 00:40:36,309
I could have Will another floor.
824
00:40:36,769 --> 00:40:41,065
I could have I could have some some, you know,
some emergency rooms and build a more
825
00:40:41,065 --> 00:40:42,025
profitable structure.
826
00:40:42,025 --> 00:40:47,519
Like, so fundamentally, the incentives or the
industry are not yet geared towards towards,
827
00:40:47,519 --> 00:40:49,840
like, increased collaboration from a business
model perspective.
828
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:54,554
And so once again, I think that's why you see a
lot of evangelists in the industry, they're
829
00:40:54,554 --> 00:40:55,994
they're the one propelling us forward.
830
00:40:55,994 --> 00:41:00,795
They're the one spending energy to just pull
the industry Foret, but you're not seeing that
831
00:41:00,795 --> 00:41:04,889
massive adoption because Ultimately, the
business model is not creating the incentives
832
00:41:04,889 --> 00:41:05,289
for it.
833
00:41:05,289 --> 00:41:10,409
So right now, we still rely on the great
thinkers of the industry that people are just
834
00:41:10,409 --> 00:41:12,190
truly passionate about driving stuff.
835
00:41:12,315 --> 00:41:15,994
To drive us forward, but they're doing that,
like, by the strengths of their arms.
836
00:41:15,994 --> 00:41:18,394
Like, there there's no there's no underlying
support for it.
837
00:41:18,394 --> 00:41:21,380
So the one thing that I haven't seen progress
is the business model.
838
00:41:21,380 --> 00:41:23,079
That's that's my answer to your question.
839
00:41:23,699 --> 00:41:24,819
That's a great answer.
840
00:41:24,819 --> 00:41:30,425
We oh, every time we talk about, like, it's the
it's the craziest business to be in in
841
00:41:30,425 --> 00:41:30,925
construction.
842
00:41:31,065 --> 00:41:35,785
Like, it honestly doesn't make any sense, which
is also why we're super intrigued about it.
843
00:41:35,785 --> 00:41:40,779
I and there's something about the the Foret of,
like, these human beings are like growing it
844
00:41:40,779 --> 00:41:48,554
all out there on a thing that seems crazy, but
yet it so fundamental to society to continue
845
00:41:48,614 --> 00:41:48,934
on.
846
00:41:48,934 --> 00:41:51,275
Like, it's just, you know, it's just it's wild.
847
00:41:52,775 --> 00:41:58,159
I loved the perspective on where we're at now
and moving towards the future, towards the
848
00:41:58,159 --> 00:41:58,639
future.
849
00:41:58,639 --> 00:42:00,980
I loved how you put that perspective on there.
850
00:42:02,434 --> 00:42:11,780
I wanna make sure that when we're looking at
future, this business model the only thing that
851
00:42:11,780 --> 00:42:20,114
could be that could be really changed or fixed,
or is it, or is it more a symptom rather than
852
00:42:20,114 --> 00:42:22,183
the actual underlying issue.
853
00:42:22,183 --> 00:42:22,617
Right?
854
00:42:22,617 --> 00:42:32,069
So we see that happening everywhere Justin the
same way in what your company did, right?
855
00:42:32,069 --> 00:42:39,425
You the symptoms were everywhere, but you
changed a fundamental aspect you are changing a
856
00:42:39,425 --> 00:42:45,265
fundamental aspect to how construction business
is working because of the people at the bottom,
857
00:42:45,265 --> 00:42:46,405
not at the top.
858
00:42:48,929 --> 00:42:51,269
I think that's a and I think that's a great
point.
859
00:42:52,530 --> 00:42:57,684
Instruction companies for the vast majority of
them don't leave that long.
860
00:42:57,824 --> 00:43:01,844
Like, the I think the the average lifespan of a
construction company, I think you're talking
861
00:43:01,905 --> 00:43:03,585
maybe 40 years or something like that.
862
00:43:03,585 --> 00:43:05,444
That's the typical construction company.
863
00:43:05,699 --> 00:43:10,019
Rise grow very fast, grow very Justin Foret the
impulse of the original founders.
864
00:43:10,019 --> 00:43:15,045
Usually, they they found like either a market
niche or or something that they really can
865
00:43:15,045 --> 00:43:16,222
differentiate Will.
866
00:43:16,244 --> 00:43:18,105
They just go very, very, very fast.
867
00:43:18,244 --> 00:43:22,565
And then and then one day, like, they just
either they sell or they start just decreasing
868
00:43:22,565 --> 00:43:28,090
in or whatever, or maybe the opportunity goes
away and then that so, I mean, I think most
869
00:43:28,090 --> 00:43:30,650
companies, you know, will die one day.
870
00:43:30,650 --> 00:43:36,105
I mean, like, you see the seeing the the codex,
the Xerox of the Will, like, just like every
871
00:43:36,105 --> 00:43:38,184
company no matter how big apple will die one
day.
872
00:43:38,184 --> 00:43:39,545
Like, so, like, it will happen.
873
00:43:39,545 --> 00:43:44,699
But I think the the lifespan of company in the
construction market is is a lot shorter due to
874
00:43:44,699 --> 00:43:48,545
the fact that the vast majority of companies in
our market are not just that giant.
875
00:43:48,545 --> 00:43:54,625
Like, you see some lasting qualities to the
very big ones, but, but, but not everybody has
876
00:43:54,625 --> 00:43:55,125
that.
877
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:59,760
And I think that cycle will create this
opportunity that you're talking about to to
878
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:03,679
have one day somebody coming with like, I don't
know, a super vertically integrated business
879
00:44:03,679 --> 00:44:07,414
model, Like, what, who do you see like driving
the market right now?
880
00:44:07,414 --> 00:44:11,255
So the integrated MEP contractors, right?
881
00:44:11,255 --> 00:44:13,650
They do everything from mechanical combing.
882
00:44:13,710 --> 00:44:19,089
You those are usually the trade that used to
fight on-site in terms of who gets the space,
883
00:44:19,230 --> 00:44:23,010
like, under the ceiling to run their their
their cables or their pipes, whatever.
884
00:44:23,184 --> 00:44:26,385
And and and some some players came out, and
they're like, you know what?
885
00:44:26,385 --> 00:44:27,984
We're gonna design all three systems.
886
00:44:27,984 --> 00:44:30,304
We're gonna install all three systems for the
buildings.
887
00:44:30,304 --> 00:44:32,400
And a massively more effective process.
888
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:35,760
On top of it, the margins are really good if
you actually know what you're doing in that
889
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:36,239
space.
890
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:40,855
So that's an example of of of people
integrating either, like, just horizontally or
891
00:44:40,855 --> 00:44:43,195
vertically to just kinda like make the business
better.
892
00:44:43,494 --> 00:44:49,849
Historically, you have the big GCs that are
doing the the shell there themselves, like
893
00:44:49,849 --> 00:44:51,130
they're doing the steel in the concrete.
894
00:44:51,130 --> 00:44:53,449
Like, that's an example of massive vertical
integration.
895
00:44:53,449 --> 00:44:54,170
And why do they do it?
896
00:44:54,170 --> 00:44:55,289
Because it's profitable, right?
897
00:44:55,289 --> 00:44:58,275
Because it it's supported by the by the
business model.
898
00:44:58,275 --> 00:45:02,675
So I think that's where the innovation will
come from, and you mix that with the fact that
899
00:45:02,675 --> 00:45:05,155
the life cycle of companies pretty short in the
industry.
900
00:45:05,155 --> 00:45:08,660
I mean, in the scale of of decades or 100
years.
901
00:45:08,660 --> 00:45:10,599
And I think that's what will drive the
business.
902
00:45:10,820 --> 00:45:12,519
I mean, we've seen that with Fieldwire.
903
00:45:12,900 --> 00:45:18,905
And what I mean by that is when we used to go
visit Justin, that just didn't believe in what
904
00:45:18,905 --> 00:45:19,464
we were doing.
905
00:45:19,464 --> 00:45:20,744
Like, they were like, oh, you're crazy.
906
00:45:20,744 --> 00:45:26,239
Like, smartphones are never gonna happen and,
you know, that that's And and I remember I
907
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:29,599
think he was investors asking us, like, what do
you do if a customer doesn't wanna buy
908
00:45:29,599 --> 00:45:31,679
smartphones or tablets for their job sites?
909
00:45:31,679 --> 00:45:34,159
Like, our salespeople were like, I'm not sure
the customer wants to buy.
910
00:45:34,159 --> 00:45:39,425
And I was Don't waste time with a customer that
just doesn't believe, like, just work with the
911
00:45:39,425 --> 00:45:43,000
people that believe, they will will perform way
better.
912
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:45,019
We're gonna make those guys super profitable.
913
00:45:45,639 --> 00:45:48,119
And at one point, it's like the water bucket
carriers.
914
00:45:48,119 --> 00:45:52,655
Like, either either you wanna stay relevant and
you move over to kind of like a Justin more
915
00:45:52,655 --> 00:45:55,215
performant technology, either either you get
out of business.
916
00:45:55,215 --> 00:46:00,849
And so is we're not in the business of
convincing people that technology will happen.
917
00:46:00,989 --> 00:46:02,590
Like, some people believe some people don't.
918
00:46:02,590 --> 00:46:06,244
We're just in the business of selecting the one
that believe and just try to bring it to them.
919
00:46:06,325 --> 00:46:11,125
That's that's why that's why I I will never try
to convince somebody that that our stuff is
920
00:46:11,125 --> 00:46:11,365
better.
921
00:46:11,365 --> 00:46:13,704
If you don't believe, you don't believe, that's
go with me.
922
00:46:15,079 --> 00:46:19,500
That I start thinking about especially on the
technology side.
923
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:24,195
You know, we're talking about you know, you've
got, like, prefab stuff that happens.
924
00:46:24,195 --> 00:46:28,755
You got, 3 d printing stuff that's happening.
925
00:46:28,755 --> 00:46:34,230
You've got construction that is, there's
companies that are essentially like, I'm
926
00:46:34,230 --> 00:46:38,594
building you your structure and it unfolds and
it's like good to go.
927
00:46:38,594 --> 00:46:42,195
Like, you know, like, obviously, there's some
setup to that, but, like, we're building this
928
00:46:42,195 --> 00:46:46,119
in a factory because this is gonna be way more
efficient.
929
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:50,380
Like, this is like more manufacturing than
traditional construction.
930
00:46:51,720 --> 00:46:54,280
I I mean, we're obviously seeing more and more
of that.
931
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:59,304
Are you do you think that they're like, we're
gonna get to the point here and say the next 10
932
00:46:59,304 --> 00:47:01,945
years that it's like, yeah, you're getting a
good chunk of the market.
933
00:47:01,945 --> 00:47:06,210
It's just doing these kind of things in
comparison to the traditional type of,
934
00:47:06,530 --> 00:47:07,030
construction.
935
00:47:07,570 --> 00:47:07,809
Yeah.
936
00:47:07,809 --> 00:47:13,170
So I think prefab, I mean, prefab has been
going on for, like, 40 plus years, but it's
937
00:47:13,170 --> 00:47:17,594
been going on for a 100 years if you argue you
know, about when it actually started.
938
00:47:17,594 --> 00:47:20,974
But, like so prefab is awesome.
939
00:47:21,114 --> 00:47:27,849
I've always been a huge fan of prefab The
difficulty of prefab is that transportation is
940
00:47:27,849 --> 00:47:29,230
actually a limiting factor.
941
00:47:29,369 --> 00:47:36,635
So if you have a big plant that does prefab, it
only has a certain range around it.
942
00:47:36,635 --> 00:47:37,035
Mhmm.
943
00:47:37,035 --> 00:47:40,780
Where where it's still profitable to kinda like
Will in the plan and distribute it.
944
00:47:41,099 --> 00:47:45,099
And I think that's a hard lesson that, that,
that companies have learned is that there are
945
00:47:45,099 --> 00:47:46,619
physical limits to the pre 5 model.
946
00:47:46,619 --> 00:47:50,554
Like, you, you actually need to have a
significant volume prefab works great if you
947
00:47:50,554 --> 00:47:55,594
want, if you have a concentrated market demand
that is right next to your plan or just not too
948
00:47:55,594 --> 00:47:56,255
too far.
949
00:47:56,369 --> 00:47:59,970
The idea that you could have a pre fab plan in
the middle of the US and serve the entire
950
00:47:59,970 --> 00:48:01,970
market actually doesn't work quite as well.
951
00:48:01,970 --> 00:48:05,410
I mean, I'm not an expert of the market, but
from what I understand, that's the physical
952
00:48:05,410 --> 00:48:07,125
limit is limiting prefab.
953
00:48:07,125 --> 00:48:09,764
After that, I think prefab will happen more and
Foret.
954
00:48:09,764 --> 00:48:15,640
Like, you you look at California, for example,
super concentrated market, hyper expensive
955
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:20,140
residential, market, like prefab residential
units.
956
00:48:21,914 --> 00:48:22,795
I mean, it's working.
957
00:48:22,795 --> 00:48:26,574
Like, there are many companies that are doing
it and are doing successfully, right?
958
00:48:27,035 --> 00:48:31,295
After that, at the scale of the market, not
every project is a sync working well with that.
959
00:48:31,980 --> 00:48:35,920
You see I see robotics advancing.
960
00:48:37,579 --> 00:48:41,885
I think we're gonna we're gonna reach a point
where robotics is actually contributing like,
961
00:48:41,885 --> 00:48:43,405
just directly on job sites.
962
00:48:43,405 --> 00:48:48,284
I mean, like, I think we're if if I describe
the next 10 years, last 10 years of robotics, I
963
00:48:48,284 --> 00:48:54,099
think it was more of an experiment, it was more
of a Neagle trying to be part of the next the
964
00:48:54,099 --> 00:48:54,920
next wave.
965
00:48:55,059 --> 00:48:57,860
I think we're gonna see robotics con
contributing directly.
966
00:48:57,860 --> 00:49:00,684
Like, on on very, like, just interesting jobs.
967
00:49:00,684 --> 00:49:05,405
Like, you see, like, you know, like Will robots
and you see, like, just lay out robots.
968
00:49:05,405 --> 00:49:07,505
I think that's that's getting to a point of
maturity.
969
00:49:07,730 --> 00:49:14,230
And I think the biggest limiting factor there
is I'm dealing with a changing environment
970
00:49:14,260 --> 00:49:19,335
Justin how autonomously really is my robot able
to operate in that environment.
971
00:49:19,335 --> 00:49:21,994
And I think we're getting to a point where that
is getting solved.
972
00:49:22,739 --> 00:49:25,000
And so I think that's gonna be really, really
exciting.
973
00:49:25,460 --> 00:49:25,940
Yeah.
974
00:49:25,940 --> 00:49:29,699
So I and and by the way, like, I'm talking
about, like, the really cool new stuff.
975
00:49:29,699 --> 00:49:29,940
Yeah.
976
00:49:29,940 --> 00:49:35,295
If you take just like the the last gen, like,
just the stuff that Fieldwar is part of, I
977
00:49:35,295 --> 00:49:40,820
think the market is reaching a level of
maturity where, like, now you know who's good
978
00:49:40,820 --> 00:49:41,860
and who's not out there.
979
00:49:41,860 --> 00:49:43,780
Like, there's a lot of good solution out there.
980
00:49:43,780 --> 00:49:47,719
So to today, there's no excuse as a
construction company to use bad software.
981
00:49:47,835 --> 00:49:52,714
Like, there's enough good software out there
that you can just pick 1 and and just roll with
982
00:49:52,714 --> 00:49:53,114
it.
983
00:49:53,114 --> 00:49:57,134
And what's interesting is that that
consolidation is creating a solid foundation
984
00:49:57,199 --> 00:49:59,039
for that next wave to happen on top of it.
985
00:49:59,039 --> 00:49:59,280
Right?
986
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:05,485
So when you think about, like, just connecting
tools, driving ecosystem, like, that is that is
987
00:50:05,485 --> 00:50:09,405
going to be possible because I think the Foret
layer has been figured out.
988
00:50:09,405 --> 00:50:13,960
Like, the last tenure was really about figuring
it that that Foret layer, which is What do you
989
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:15,019
use in the field?
990
00:50:15,159 --> 00:50:16,760
How does it connect to the back office?
991
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:18,840
Like, do you have a solution that does both
sides?
992
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:19,079
Great.
993
00:50:19,079 --> 00:50:21,260
And now Will everything on top of that?
994
00:50:21,414 --> 00:50:23,594
That has been figured out in the last 10 years.
995
00:50:25,255 --> 00:50:32,269
Do you feel like there's still stigma around in
the market around being burned by software in
996
00:50:32,269 --> 00:50:32,930
the past?
997
00:50:34,989 --> 00:50:39,795
I mean, I think we're we're we're in an
industry that strives on stigma, know?
998
00:50:42,094 --> 00:50:43,934
So, yes, there is always stigma.
999
00:50:43,934 --> 00:50:45,074
There is always stories.
1000
00:50:45,614 --> 00:50:50,089
No, I think people are getting to a point are
getting to a point where where where they're
1001
00:50:50,089 --> 00:50:51,530
feeling a lot better about it.
1002
00:50:51,530 --> 00:50:58,144
The the problem I think is more that we're such
a hardcore market in that we always, we only
1003
00:50:58,144 --> 00:50:59,204
talk about the problems.
1004
00:50:59,585 --> 00:51:02,385
And that's Justin, that's just how we run our
sites.
1005
00:51:02,385 --> 00:51:04,570
That's how we run our companies and stuff like
that.
1006
00:51:04,570 --> 00:51:08,010
And so you hear 10 times more about the
problems than you hear about the good stuff.
1007
00:51:08,010 --> 00:51:13,954
Because to be honest, like, I go visit our
customers and you know, I see, like, how stoked
1008
00:51:13,954 --> 00:51:14,614
they are.
1009
00:51:14,835 --> 00:51:19,234
Like, so so sometimes I will go talk to the CIO
and he was like, oh, like, by the way, like,
1010
00:51:19,234 --> 00:51:22,619
one of our guys support and need this email
and, like, he's really unhappy about stuff.
1011
00:51:22,619 --> 00:51:24,619
And I was like, okay, we'll spend more time
with your team.
1012
00:51:24,619 --> 00:51:25,820
Let's go visit a site together.
1013
00:51:25,820 --> 00:51:29,695
And then we're gonna do the site and
everybody's singing praises about the software.
1014
00:51:29,914 --> 00:51:30,795
And I'm like, okay.
1015
00:51:30,795 --> 00:51:35,355
I think the problem is that we just love
highlighting the problem in the industry, and
1016
00:51:35,355 --> 00:51:37,530
and we don't know how to celebrate the wins.
1017
00:51:37,590 --> 00:51:40,389
That is just that's just the way the industry
is.
1018
00:51:40,389 --> 00:51:42,550
That's why I love it, and I hate it at the same
time.
1019
00:51:42,550 --> 00:51:47,734
You know, it's the it's you know, that that's
construction in a nutshell.
1020
00:51:47,795 --> 00:51:50,355
So, basically, I don't think the stigma is a
big problem.
1021
00:51:50,355 --> 00:51:53,954
I think people are are getting on board with
it, and and it's working quite well for
1022
00:51:53,954 --> 00:51:54,454
everyone.
1023
00:51:55,170 --> 00:51:57,170
That actually brings up a great point.
1024
00:51:57,170 --> 00:52:01,730
So other than just choosing field wire, which
should probably be your first answer, how do
1025
00:52:01,730 --> 00:52:05,764
you how does a co how does a GC or a sub to
software.
1026
00:52:05,764 --> 00:52:09,364
Like, how do you go and say, alright, there are
these many softwares.
1027
00:52:09,364 --> 00:52:10,804
I can look at, like, reviews.
1028
00:52:10,804 --> 00:52:13,099
I can get recommendations from other Neagle.
1029
00:52:13,125 --> 00:52:18,349
But, like, until I actually put my hands on it,
like, I don't know.
1030
00:52:18,349 --> 00:52:19,469
Like, I I just don't know.
1031
00:52:19,469 --> 00:52:22,269
So, like, you're obviously sitting on the other
side of this.
1032
00:52:22,269 --> 00:52:27,194
So you probably analyze how can I get people to
to like our software a lot?
1033
00:52:27,194 --> 00:52:33,440
So what what are steps if you are a GC or a sub
that needs to use no, they need to get their
1034
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:34,159
software game up.
1035
00:52:34,159 --> 00:52:36,260
What would you suggest them do?
1036
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:42,724
So, I mean, in in in general, I always
recommend to put your hands on the software.
1037
00:52:42,864 --> 00:52:43,824
And you know what?
1038
00:52:43,824 --> 00:52:48,864
Like, this is the generation we're we're in
right now where in general, if you have a
1039
00:52:48,864 --> 00:52:53,230
vendor that is not super open about letting you
test their software before you sign this for
1040
00:52:53,230 --> 00:52:57,275
your contract, I would be a little bit bothered
by that.
1041
00:52:57,355 --> 00:53:01,674
You know, there's probably a reason why they
don't want you to use their software a little
1042
00:53:01,674 --> 00:53:03,135
bit and compare it to another.
1043
00:53:03,434 --> 00:53:05,250
So I would be a little worried about that.
1044
00:53:05,250 --> 00:53:07,989
So in general, there's always a way to put your
hands on the software.
1045
00:53:08,449 --> 00:53:14,405
In general, and as I said earlier, like, I
don't like to convince people to to to buy a
1046
00:53:14,405 --> 00:53:16,324
software or like to buy Will or any software.
1047
00:53:16,324 --> 00:53:21,260
For that matter, I would rather help them think
about the purchase that they're gonna do.
1048
00:53:21,260 --> 00:53:24,639
And in general, I tell them there's probably 3
things you need to think about.
1049
00:53:25,420 --> 00:53:28,380
So the number one is is does it adopt?
1050
00:53:28,380 --> 00:53:28,619
Right?
1051
00:53:28,619 --> 00:53:36,654
I mean, Construction is is, you know, is a is a
manpower heavy type of industry.
1052
00:53:36,654 --> 00:53:42,190
Like, we have a lot of people, and If you have
to fight for every single user that is being
1053
00:53:42,190 --> 00:53:44,349
deployed in your organization, it's not gonna
work.
1054
00:53:44,349 --> 00:53:47,869
Like, maybe you can you're gonna do the Foret
10, then the first 50, and then you're gonna
1055
00:53:47,869 --> 00:53:51,074
run out of steam and basically your software
deployment is not gonna go well.
1056
00:53:51,074 --> 00:53:56,090
So I'm like, ultimately, if you're gonna buy
something, it's incredibly important that you
1057
00:53:56,090 --> 00:53:58,170
have a good confidence that it's gonna get
adopted.
1058
00:53:58,170 --> 00:54:02,409
And that's how the industry get burned is they
bought something that checked, you know, like
1059
00:54:02,409 --> 00:54:06,425
the it checked the checkbox but at the end of
the day, it's just nobody was using it.
1060
00:54:06,425 --> 00:54:07,864
So, like, now you've just lost your money.
1061
00:54:07,864 --> 00:54:10,264
Doesn't actually matter if the software could
work.
1062
00:54:10,264 --> 00:54:13,849
If people are not using it, you will have no
chance of ever getting to that point.
1063
00:54:13,849 --> 00:54:14,650
That's the first thing.
1064
00:54:14,650 --> 00:54:15,710
Does it get adopted?
1065
00:54:16,010 --> 00:54:17,950
The second one is does it scale?
1066
00:54:18,170 --> 00:54:26,324
And most companies, most customers that we see
have I could fairly white spectrum of projects
1067
00:54:26,385 --> 00:54:31,264
that will go from some pretty small one, even
like the giant companies, they do like 500 k
1068
00:54:31,264 --> 00:54:31,764
jobs.
1069
00:54:32,130 --> 00:54:35,010
But they also do a $1,000,000,000 job next to
that.
1070
00:54:35,010 --> 00:54:35,170
Right?
1071
00:54:35,170 --> 00:54:40,394
And so having a software that can span both
sides, be basically being, like, easy enough to
1072
00:54:40,394 --> 00:54:45,035
deploy on your small scale projects, but it's
robust enough to be able to, to take your big
1073
00:54:45,035 --> 00:54:45,775
scale projects.
1074
00:54:45,835 --> 00:54:48,175
There's only so many companies out there.
1075
00:54:48,559 --> 00:54:54,159
And once again, the only way you can you can
check that is is by seeing reference jobs.
1076
00:54:54,159 --> 00:54:58,115
Like, so when you work with a vendor, like, can
they point at $1,000,000,000 jobs?
1077
00:54:58,115 --> 00:54:59,795
Can they partner at smaller jobs?
1078
00:54:59,795 --> 00:55:03,075
I mean, actually, the smaller jobs, you can
probably test it yourself because it's not too
1079
00:55:03,075 --> 00:55:04,515
hard to imagine with a smaller job.
1080
00:55:04,515 --> 00:55:06,855
Like, how long does it take you to deploy a
small job?
1081
00:55:06,980 --> 00:55:10,099
And then you have to believe them when they
show you, like, the $1,000,000,000 job that
1082
00:55:10,099 --> 00:55:11,619
they actually did work on it.
1083
00:55:11,619 --> 00:55:13,380
So does it adopt?
1084
00:55:13,380 --> 00:55:14,099
Does it scale?
1085
00:55:14,099 --> 00:55:16,119
And the last one is does it deliver results?
1086
00:55:16,464 --> 00:55:19,905
It's like there's a lot of softwares that are
pre missing certain stuff.
1087
00:55:19,905 --> 00:55:22,144
Like at some point, are you, are you witnessing
it?
1088
00:55:22,144 --> 00:55:25,569
And the only way to witness it is you have to
just talk to people.
1089
00:55:25,710 --> 00:55:29,469
Ideally, if you've tried the software yourself,
if you're talking to your own employees, you
1090
00:55:29,469 --> 00:55:32,609
would be surprised how little sometimes people
talk to their own employees.
1091
00:55:33,484 --> 00:55:36,304
Half the time, that's what we do, which is go
to a customer's.
1092
00:55:36,924 --> 00:55:41,636
They have, I don't know, like, just 30 or 60,
like, people using field Will.
1093
00:55:41,644 --> 00:55:43,849
Like, that's started, like, locally somewhere.
1094
00:55:44,230 --> 00:55:46,710
And we say, okay, like, does it adopt?
1095
00:55:46,710 --> 00:55:49,589
Obviously, you didn't even try to push the
software and people are using it.
1096
00:55:49,589 --> 00:55:51,449
So I think we're pretty sure it adopts.
1097
00:55:51,825 --> 00:55:55,585
The second one is does it scale where we can
show you, like, reference customers.
1098
00:55:55,585 --> 00:56:01,030
I remember, like, a call that I was Will, I
think it was, a Canadian company, and they were
1099
00:56:01,030 --> 00:56:04,550
like, you know, we make, we make 200,000,000 a
year.
1100
00:56:04,550 --> 00:56:06,309
Like, we wanna make sure that you can take our
volume.
1101
00:56:06,309 --> 00:56:08,230
And we're like, do you know at least not in
Canada?
1102
00:56:08,230 --> 00:56:08,469
Yeah.
1103
00:56:08,469 --> 00:56:12,414
I mean, like, they're $3,540,000,000 companies
like, well, their company went on Fieldwire.
1104
00:56:12,414 --> 00:56:13,954
So I'm pretty sure we can take 200,000,000.
1105
00:56:14,574 --> 00:56:15,795
And you know what?
1106
00:56:16,014 --> 00:56:18,034
But that's that's confidence in the industry.
1107
00:56:18,094 --> 00:56:21,039
Like, the, like, the, the Canadians being super
nice.
1108
00:56:21,039 --> 00:56:22,079
Like, they were like, oh, sorry.
1109
00:56:22,079 --> 00:56:27,545
I asked the Justin, but, like, the you have
this is past performance in the industry.
1110
00:56:27,625 --> 00:56:29,065
Like, that's why the industry's thrive on.
1111
00:56:29,065 --> 00:56:31,224
Like, if you either you can show it or you
can't.
1112
00:56:31,224 --> 00:56:31,464
Right?
1113
00:56:31,464 --> 00:56:35,464
So and then after that, that person was, like,
completely confident and icing it end up being
1114
00:56:35,464 --> 00:56:36,239
a great deal.
1115
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:43,599
And and the last part is ROI, and half the time
what we do is we take C level people and we
1116
00:56:43,599 --> 00:56:46,224
say, those are the people at your company that
are using it.
1117
00:56:47,184 --> 00:56:48,485
Those are their phone numbers.
1118
00:56:48,625 --> 00:56:49,825
This is what they're saying.
1119
00:56:49,825 --> 00:56:51,684
This is the intensity of their usage.
1120
00:56:52,065 --> 00:56:53,105
Don't listen to us.
1121
00:56:53,105 --> 00:56:53,825
Listen to them.
1122
00:56:53,825 --> 00:56:54,889
Just go talk to them.
1123
00:56:54,889 --> 00:57:00,170
And if it works for like fifty plus people in
your company, it's not a hard stretch to
1124
00:57:00,170 --> 00:57:02,804
believe that it would work for 500 or 5000,
right?
1125
00:57:02,804 --> 00:57:09,089
And literally every large deployment we have,
that meeting happened when we're like, don't
1126
00:57:09,089 --> 00:57:10,565
Justin to us, listen to them.
1127
00:57:10,565 --> 00:57:14,119
Like, And, and then after that, like, that's,
that's where you kind of, like, tie the whole
1128
00:57:14,119 --> 00:57:15,000
three things together.
1129
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:19,480
But that framework is very basic, but I don't
think most companies are necessarily thinking
1130
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:24,235
about it, I think they're thinking about, okay,
what software am I trying to replace?
1131
00:57:24,775 --> 00:57:26,614
What usage am I looking for?
1132
00:57:26,614 --> 00:57:28,454
Like, does it work on Android devices?
1133
00:57:28,454 --> 00:57:30,119
I'm like, none of that really matters.
1134
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:34,519
Like, at the end of the day, that that that is
not why you will succeed or fail.
1135
00:57:34,519 --> 00:57:35,019
Right?
1136
00:57:35,559 --> 00:57:38,065
So anyway, that's a that's that's our
framework.
1137
00:57:38,224 --> 00:57:39,264
And it's, and it's worked well.
1138
00:57:39,264 --> 00:57:43,264
And in general, right now, I think field and
office has been figured out as we described.
1139
00:57:43,264 --> 00:57:45,664
I think, like, there's a lot of good software
to do that.
1140
00:57:45,664 --> 00:57:49,639
I mean, we started in the field, but we talk
about field Foret and job site management
1141
00:57:49,639 --> 00:57:54,199
software because we like to take the entire job
site from the field site all the way through
1142
00:57:54,199 --> 00:57:54,780
the trailer.
1143
00:57:54,974 --> 00:57:56,494
I think that's been figured out pretty well.
1144
00:57:56,494 --> 00:57:59,235
I mean, in general, you're gonna need a good
ERP.
1145
00:57:59,614 --> 00:58:02,675
I think the ERP space is still a little bit
weird in the industry.
1146
00:58:02,940 --> 00:58:06,619
You're gonna need a good, like, job site
management platform that just does everything
1147
00:58:06,619 --> 00:58:08,140
you need to do on the job site.
1148
00:58:08,140 --> 00:58:13,014
And then after that, honestly, you can run a
pretty big company with just those 2 softwares.
1149
00:58:13,315 --> 00:58:14,194
And, and you know what?
1150
00:58:14,194 --> 00:58:17,394
I feel like if you wanna add little stuff
around it, like, you can probably do it.
1151
00:58:17,394 --> 00:58:22,260
But at least at that point, you can pay people
and you can run your sites, which is this is
1152
00:58:22,260 --> 00:58:23,260
the job of construction, to be honest.
1153
00:58:23,260 --> 00:58:23,273
Alright.
1154
00:58:23,273 --> 00:58:23,800
You've been super
1155
00:58:27,380 --> 00:58:27,880
insightful.
1156
00:58:28,405 --> 00:58:34,085
I I'm pretty sure our listeners will take away
something out of what you've talked about, and
1157
00:58:34,085 --> 00:58:36,175
I think they'll love your French accent as
well.
1158
00:58:36,175 --> 00:58:43,019
So we got to we gotta wind down and go to our
last question.
1159
00:58:43,019 --> 00:58:46,835
Justin, You wanna give him our last question?
1160
00:58:47,054 --> 00:58:47,795
Yeah, absolutely.
1161
00:58:48,175 --> 00:58:54,594
So if you could go back 20 years, this 2003,
what would you tell yourself, Keith?
1162
00:58:56,170 --> 00:58:59,630
Actually, what were if you don't mind, what
were you doing in 2003?
1163
00:59:00,170 --> 00:59:01,150
Were you at Yucatan?
1164
00:59:01,609 --> 00:59:01,859
No.
1165
00:59:01,859 --> 00:59:02,359
2003.
1166
00:59:03,894 --> 00:59:04,135
No.
1167
00:59:04,135 --> 00:59:04,295
No.
1168
00:59:04,295 --> 00:59:10,534
I was just getting into I was just graduating
from I don't like the the tail end of high
1169
00:59:10,534 --> 00:59:15,170
school in France, school ends up at 18 and then
you do 2 or 3 years of what's called
1170
00:59:15,170 --> 00:59:17,750
preparatory classes, which is super hardcore
engineering.
1171
00:59:18,210 --> 00:59:21,344
And then you take a standardized test to go
into engineering school.
1172
00:59:21,344 --> 00:59:30,280
So I I just got in engineering school, and I
think I was finishing my military initial
1173
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:31,800
training because they take civilians.
1174
00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:36,599
And before they send you to the actual army
schools, they they give you a chance for 2
1175
00:59:36,599 --> 00:59:41,144
months to just, you know, get used to it a
little bit before they before they said it.
1176
00:59:41,144 --> 00:59:46,929
So I went to the elementary school that was, as
as probably, a pretty hardcore and, like, I
1177
00:59:46,929 --> 00:59:51,569
think they're also trying to preserve the the
military guys from seeing a bunch of a bunch of
1178
00:59:51,569 --> 00:59:55,269
civilians arrive with with no sense of of of
how stuff works.
1179
00:59:55,585 --> 00:59:55,904
Okay.
1180
00:59:55,904 --> 00:59:57,924
So why would I would why would I tell myself?
1181
00:59:58,625 --> 00:59:59,824
Why would I tell myself that?
1182
00:59:59,824 --> 01:00:01,125
That's an excellent question.
1183
01:00:01,505 --> 01:00:07,230
You know, it's a little bit weird because I
think that's something that that I have, and
1184
01:00:07,289 --> 01:00:11,690
and and I think I shared that with my my
cofounder is I don't have a lot of regrets.
1185
01:00:11,690 --> 01:00:13,309
Do I think I made a lot of mistake?
1186
01:00:13,454 --> 01:00:22,320
Probably, you know, but in the end, I think the
mistakes were part of the journey that just got
1187
01:00:22,320 --> 01:00:23,539
us to where we are.
1188
01:00:23,599 --> 01:00:27,920
And, you know, I'm pretty sure that even if I
change the mistake part of it, I'm not sure we
1189
01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:33,704
still get here, you know, I I remember, like,
when I joined Ubisoft after Stanford, like and
1190
01:00:33,704 --> 01:00:40,329
it's funny because, one of my friend, he's
working, is working for, for a construction VC
1191
01:00:40,329 --> 01:00:41,869
and we're, we're chatting recently.
1192
01:00:42,250 --> 01:00:46,569
And he told me, like, yeah, when, when you went
into gaming after construction, everybody was
1193
01:00:46,569 --> 01:00:48,285
like, what is this guy doing?
1194
01:00:48,285 --> 01:00:50,125
You know, it just doesn't make any sense.
1195
01:00:50,125 --> 01:00:55,005
And you and you fast forward, I didn't have a
plan to go back to construction with what I
1196
01:00:55,005 --> 01:00:57,659
learned in gaming, but had I not gone into
gaming?
1197
01:00:57,659 --> 01:00:59,760
I never would have been able to create Will
wire.
1198
01:01:00,059 --> 01:01:01,199
And then you know what?
1199
01:01:01,340 --> 01:01:06,815
I probably had zero idea of what was ahead of
us when I started Field Will.
1200
01:01:06,815 --> 01:01:09,694
I probably, you know, actually, I think I did.
1201
01:01:09,694 --> 01:01:13,460
I think I had done some, some projections of
how fast we were gonna grow.
1202
01:01:13,599 --> 01:01:18,079
And, you know, like, our roadmap, like, in,
like, in 2 years where we're gonna go and we
1203
01:01:18,079 --> 01:01:22,454
started Will art, it took us 10 years to get to
get what I saw was gonna take, like, a few
1204
01:01:22,454 --> 01:01:22,954
years.
1205
01:01:23,094 --> 01:01:23,974
But had I known?
1206
01:01:23,974 --> 01:01:26,934
I'm not sure I would have done it because I
would be like, oh, it's gonna be too long.
1207
01:01:26,934 --> 01:01:27,175
Right?
1208
01:01:27,175 --> 01:01:34,599
So And the short version is, I think being a
little bit, like ignorant of some of the risk
1209
01:01:34,739 --> 01:01:39,514
is what also allows you to to take those risks
because you just you just don't think about it.
1210
01:01:39,514 --> 01:01:41,215
So, I mean, I would say, like, stay
adventurous.
1211
01:01:41,755 --> 01:01:43,594
Just whatever happens, it's gonna be okay.
1212
01:01:43,594 --> 01:01:46,010
Actually, I'm known at field saying it's
simple.
1213
01:01:46,010 --> 01:01:47,869
Every time somebody brings me a problem.
1214
01:01:48,170 --> 01:01:49,289
And it's not simple.
1215
01:01:49,289 --> 01:01:52,730
I realize it's not simple, but there's, like,
no points in dwelling over the complexity of
1216
01:01:52,730 --> 01:01:53,150
the Will.
1217
01:01:53,364 --> 01:01:54,744
Justin what can we do about it?
1218
01:01:54,744 --> 01:01:56,525
Let's do that and let's see what happens.
1219
01:01:56,824 --> 01:01:59,804
So so that's that's, yeah, I wouldn't change
anything.
1220
01:02:00,505 --> 01:02:03,789
I'm sure I'm sure I could have done a lot stuff
better, but you know what?
1221
01:02:03,789 --> 01:02:05,949
I didn't know what I know now back then.
1222
01:02:05,949 --> 01:02:06,190
So
1223
01:02:06,989 --> 01:02:07,489
Yeah.
1224
01:02:07,670 --> 01:02:08,750
It's simple.
1225
01:02:08,750 --> 01:02:09,469
It's simple.
1226
01:02:09,469 --> 01:02:10,130
It's simple.
1227
01:02:10,190 --> 01:02:10,690
Okay.
1228
01:02:12,094 --> 01:02:12,574
It's awesome.
1229
01:02:12,574 --> 01:02:13,074
Exactly.
1230
01:02:14,094 --> 01:02:21,429
We will throw in all of the field wire and your
social, media stuff into the show notes, is if
1231
01:02:21,429 --> 01:02:23,929
somebody wanna get ahold of you, is there a way
they could do that?
1232
01:02:24,550 --> 01:02:24,710
Yeah.
1233
01:02:24,710 --> 01:02:28,605
I mean, like, super easy to reach, like, Eve, y
v e s, atfieldwire.com.
1234
01:02:29,385 --> 01:02:31,005
That's my that's my work email.
1235
01:02:31,385 --> 01:02:33,065
I'm pretty responsive on it.
1236
01:02:33,065 --> 01:02:35,644
And otherwise, like fieldwire.com is is our
website.
1237
01:02:35,704 --> 01:02:39,599
So know, if you have questions, don't hesitate
to connect on LinkedIn.
1238
01:02:39,599 --> 01:02:42,500
My my rule is if you work in construction, I
say yes.
1239
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:45,384
If you don't, I do not say yes.
1240
01:02:45,525 --> 01:02:47,605
So so that's the that's the way.
1241
01:02:47,605 --> 01:02:52,360
If I don't know you, otherwise like it, so but
I say yes, whether you're a craftsman, or like
1242
01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:53,320
a company CEO.
1243
01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:58,119
If you work in the industry, you're you're very
welcome, to be a contact and and in general, I
1244
01:02:58,119 --> 01:02:59,019
try to be helpful.
1245
01:02:59,635 --> 01:03:00,035
Awesome.
1246
01:03:00,035 --> 01:03:00,355
Awesome.
1247
01:03:00,355 --> 01:03:00,755
Awesome.
1248
01:03:00,755 --> 01:03:00,994
Awesome.
1249
01:03:00,994 --> 01:03:01,474
Thank you.
1250
01:03:01,474 --> 01:03:06,035
Oh, yes, you've been amazing, and, we learned a
lot.
1251
01:03:06,035 --> 01:03:07,735
So hopefully our listeners did as Will.
1252
01:03:07,795 --> 01:03:09,015
And until next time,
1253
01:03:09,369 --> 01:03:09,690
Audio.
1254
01:03:09,690 --> 01:03:10,190
Audio's.
1255
01:03:10,889 --> 01:03:12,109
I appreciate it, guys.
1256
01:03:12,889 --> 01:03:18,144
Thanks for listening to building scale to help
us reach even more people Please share this
1257
01:03:18,144 --> 01:03:21,364
episode with a friend, colleague, or on social
media.
1258
01:03:21,744 --> 01:03:26,969
Remember, the 3 pillars of scaling a business
are Neagle, process, and technology.
1259
01:03:27,910 --> 01:03:34,090
And our mission is to help the AEC Industry
protect Neagle by making technology easy.
1260
01:03:34,795 --> 01:03:39,755
So if you think your company's technology
pillar could use some improvement, book a call
1261
01:03:39,755 --> 01:03:44,670
with us to see how we can help maximize your IT
cybersecurity strategy.
1262
01:03:45,210 --> 01:03:47,550
This go to building scale.net/help.
1263
01:03:50,809 --> 01:03:52,349
And until next time,
1264
01:03:53,065 --> 01:03:54,664
Key Building scale.
1265
01:03:54,914 --> 01:03:55,414
Scale.
00:00:02,319 --> 00:00:06,799
Have you ever wondered how successful
architecture, engineering, and construction
2
00:00:06,799 --> 00:00:08,639
companies scale their business?
3
00:00:08,639 --> 00:00:14,384
Or have you ever wanted guidance on how to get
more growth, wealth, and freedom from your AEC
4
00:00:14,384 --> 00:00:14,884
company.
5
00:00:15,067 --> 00:00:16,484
Will, then you are in luck.
6
00:00:17,105 --> 00:00:17,605
Hi.
7
00:00:17,664 --> 00:00:18,255
I'm Will Foret.
8
00:00:18,609 --> 00:00:21,750
And I'm Justin Nagel, and we're your podcast
host.
9
00:00:21,890 --> 00:00:26,984
We interview successful AEC business leaders to
learn how they use people, process, and
10
00:00:26,984 --> 00:00:28,765
technology to scale their businesses.
11
00:00:29,304 --> 00:00:32,344
So sit back and get ready to learn from the
industry's best.
12
00:00:32,344 --> 00:00:32,585
This
13
00:00:32,585 --> 00:00:34,140
is building scale.
14
00:00:36,679 --> 00:00:37,500
Hey, listeners.
15
00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:38,539
It's Will here.
16
00:00:39,079 --> 00:00:43,405
Our mission is to help the AC industry protect
itself by making technology easy.
17
00:00:44,024 --> 00:00:48,585
If you've ever listened to our show, then you
know that the 3 pillars of scaling a business
18
00:00:48,585 --> 00:00:50,605
are people, process, and technology.
19
00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:56,079
So if you use the Spect technology as your
weekly, then book a call with us to see where
20
00:00:56,079 --> 00:01:01,965
we can help maximize your company's IP and
cyber security strategy Justin go to building
21
00:01:02,185 --> 00:01:02,685
scale.net/help.
22
00:01:06,424 --> 00:01:08,204
Today's guest is Steve Rena.
23
00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:12,219
Eve is a CEO and co founder of Fieldwire.
24
00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:15,959
He has a master's degree in civil and
environmental engineering from Stanford
25
00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:16,459
University.
26
00:01:16,984 --> 00:01:19,484
And was a paratrooper in the French army.
27
00:01:19,864 --> 00:01:24,825
Prior to starting Will wire, he held leadership
roles in the consumer software industry at
28
00:01:24,825 --> 00:01:25,325
Ubisoft.
29
00:01:25,770 --> 00:01:30,730
Where he led development teams Foret listeners
who don't know Will wire is construction field
30
00:01:30,730 --> 00:01:33,230
management platform designed for the job site.
31
00:01:33,555 --> 00:01:38,534
Members of your team can view plans, photos,
and task all in real time.
32
00:01:38,754 --> 00:01:44,420
Eve grew field Will from the idea with five
people to a robust company in the construction
33
00:01:44,420 --> 00:01:45,879
space with over 250.
34
00:01:47,379 --> 00:01:53,844
And Foret of 2021 Will wire was acquired by a
little company called Will and it makes lots of
35
00:01:53,844 --> 00:02:00,380
sense because field Will is used in a 100
countries, 6 of the 7 continents, and powers
36
00:02:00,380 --> 00:02:05,600
more than a 1,000,000 commercial industrial
heavy civil and residential projects worldwide.
37
00:02:07,020 --> 00:02:09,614
With that said, Steve, welcome to the show.
38
00:02:09,614 --> 00:02:11,454
And why not why not Antarctica?
39
00:02:11,454 --> 00:02:13,074
What are why you guys are slacking?
40
00:02:13,134 --> 00:02:15,454
Why are are we not doing stuff in Antarctica
yet?
41
00:02:15,454 --> 00:02:17,314
That's that'd be the only thing I'd say.
42
00:02:17,909 --> 00:02:21,129
So that's, so Foret of all, thanks for having
me on the show.
43
00:02:21,510 --> 00:02:23,210
Second of all, we are doing Antarctica.
44
00:02:23,349 --> 00:02:27,675
We actually have a fire stopping company that
is using us in Antarctica.
45
00:02:28,455 --> 00:02:29,735
So Oh my god.
46
00:02:29,814 --> 00:02:36,239
I have to go back that 7 of 7 continents, field
wires in So congratulations to you for
47
00:02:36,239 --> 00:02:37,939
literally taking over the world.
48
00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:38,239
Yeah.
49
00:02:38,239 --> 00:02:43,379
This is the most extreme offline use case,
because they were talking about the fact that
50
00:02:43,544 --> 00:02:48,185
they do go offline for almost, like, weeks at a
time when they're, when they're on some
51
00:02:48,185 --> 00:02:51,659
facilities over there, and then they come back
after a month and everything gets uploaded.
52
00:02:51,659 --> 00:02:52,539
So it's interesting.
53
00:02:52,539 --> 00:02:52,939
It happens.
54
00:02:52,939 --> 00:02:54,240
We haven't talked to customers.
55
00:02:55,740 --> 00:02:56,539
That's all.
56
00:02:56,539 --> 00:02:57,360
1, congratulations.
57
00:02:57,740 --> 00:03:01,485
You could sell, snow to, to the polar bears.
58
00:03:01,485 --> 00:03:02,465
So look at that.
59
00:03:02,925 --> 00:03:03,425
Exactly.
60
00:03:04,525 --> 00:03:05,004
Okay.
61
00:03:05,004 --> 00:03:07,004
So, Eve, tell us the back story.
62
00:03:07,004 --> 00:03:12,409
Tell really about you, how you got into the
industry, as well as tell us more about
63
00:03:12,409 --> 00:03:12,909
Fieldware.
64
00:03:13,370 --> 00:03:13,610
Yeah.
65
00:03:13,610 --> 00:03:14,110
Absolutely.
66
00:03:14,170 --> 00:03:16,965
I mean, like, So you summarized it pretty good.
67
00:03:16,965 --> 00:03:18,324
Like, so I grew up in France.
68
00:03:18,324 --> 00:03:25,599
My parents, are both engineers, and and and,
you know, on top of of their their day jobs.
69
00:03:25,599 --> 00:03:31,360
Like, one of their passion was, like, buying
old houses that were, completely decrepit and
70
00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:32,879
and remodeling them and redoing them.
71
00:03:32,879 --> 00:03:37,645
And so, like, I've I've grown up on
construction sites of Will farms that were
72
00:03:37,645 --> 00:03:40,604
being remodeled into, like, super nice, like,
residential houses.
73
00:03:40,604 --> 00:03:44,389
And then my parents would sell it, and then we
would move somewhere else So that's that's kind
74
00:03:44,389 --> 00:03:49,109
of like how I grew up in between kind of like
Justin bags of cement and and, you know, like,
75
00:03:49,909 --> 00:03:53,914
insulation foam and stuff like So that was a
that's a good experience, and I witnessed
76
00:03:53,914 --> 00:03:55,455
basically construction there.
77
00:03:55,995 --> 00:04:01,150
At least for the small scale residential side,
you know, in an era where you would take
78
00:04:01,150 --> 00:04:04,430
photos, then you would have to take those
photos to be developed, and then you would
79
00:04:04,430 --> 00:04:09,354
organize those in binders, like imagine doing a
a punch jigs back then and how it Justin
80
00:04:09,354 --> 00:04:11,775
breaking detailed and and heavy it had to be.
81
00:04:12,634 --> 00:04:17,754
And so I think I had a had a pretty good idea
of of of of what the grind was and running a
82
00:04:17,754 --> 00:04:18,959
small scale project like that.
83
00:04:18,959 --> 00:04:21,279
So, you know, I studied engineering.
84
00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:24,479
I actually did, like, CS And Mechanical
Engineering and friends at the time.
85
00:04:24,479 --> 00:04:29,875
I was working more on the you know, I think my
goal was to become like a heavy civil engineer,
86
00:04:30,415 --> 00:04:34,750
to work on bridges like large facilities, stuff
like that, then I went to Stanford what
87
00:04:34,750 --> 00:04:40,669
attracted me, in the civil engineering program
at Stanford was, Foret modeling was a big, was
88
00:04:40,669 --> 00:04:43,009
a big kind of like cool tech at the time.
89
00:04:43,310 --> 00:04:50,335
And you know, I kinda went through this very
transformational phase when I was at Sanford.
90
00:04:50,335 --> 00:04:54,520
I was like, it really theft, like, we're
overoptimizing the design side of the industry
91
00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:56,520
that honestly was pretty good.
92
00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:57,639
I mean, it's still very good.
93
00:04:57,639 --> 00:05:01,714
It keeps progressing, but it really wasn't in
that 0 to 1 moment.
94
00:05:01,775 --> 00:05:05,775
And at the same time, you were going on a job
site, and it looked very much like what I had
95
00:05:05,775 --> 00:05:06,975
witnessed when I was a kid.
96
00:05:06,975 --> 00:05:10,029
And I was like, we're working on the wrong
problem here.
97
00:05:10,029 --> 00:05:13,149
Like, we should be bringing tech to to the
people on the job site.
98
00:05:13,149 --> 00:05:14,750
I can take them out of this stone age.
99
00:05:14,750 --> 00:05:21,944
That being said, were in, like, 2006, 2007 at
the time, you know, there's no smartphone out
100
00:05:21,944 --> 00:05:22,264
there.
101
00:05:22,264 --> 00:05:26,639
Like, you see some kind of, like, weird custom
devices on job site and they awful.
102
00:05:26,699 --> 00:05:29,019
And I was like, okay, this, this industry is
cursed.
103
00:05:29,019 --> 00:05:31,120
We're never gonna be able to do that problem.
104
00:05:31,419 --> 00:05:35,574
And I actually got to a point where I left the
industry, like, out of frustration.
105
00:05:35,714 --> 00:05:39,954
Like, I had spent a lot of time feeling
paperworks when I was in the paratroopers, you
106
00:05:39,954 --> 00:05:44,009
know, like, interestingly enough, even when
you're in the, you're in a combat unit, you
107
00:05:44,009 --> 00:05:44,889
know, you need a gun.
108
00:05:44,889 --> 00:05:46,009
You need to fill a paperwork.
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00:05:46,009 --> 00:05:47,770
You need to be bringing back another paperwork.
110
00:05:47,770 --> 00:05:50,294
You need to just you feel forms all day long.
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00:05:50,294 --> 00:05:55,495
And the reality is that's kind of like what we
have to offer to young, like, construction
112
00:05:55,495 --> 00:05:56,855
engineer when they get on the site.
113
00:05:56,855 --> 00:06:01,410
Like, a field engineer will fill paper at least
back in 0607 that that was the Foret of their
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00:06:01,410 --> 00:06:01,649
job.
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00:06:01,649 --> 00:06:03,569
I was like, I don't wanna go back doing that.
116
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So I actually left the industry entirely.
117
00:06:05,250 --> 00:06:06,129
And I was like, okay.
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00:06:06,129 --> 00:06:09,794
I know a little bit about just management and
building teams.
119
00:06:09,794 --> 00:06:10,854
I know some engineering.
120
00:06:10,995 --> 00:06:13,394
I'm passionate about kind of like design and
products.
121
00:06:13,394 --> 00:06:15,555
Like, I like the tangible aspect of the
industry.
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00:06:15,555 --> 00:06:17,210
I was like, who's gonna take me, right?
123
00:06:17,210 --> 00:06:18,970
Like, what what job can I do?
124
00:06:18,970 --> 00:06:21,230
And so I went to interview to a bunch of
companies.
125
00:06:21,290 --> 00:06:23,449
I interviewed to some startups at the time.
126
00:06:23,449 --> 00:06:28,014
I interviewed with some product design
companies I interviewed with some gaming
127
00:06:28,014 --> 00:06:32,334
companies because being a big gamer myself, I
was like, okay, that that would be real cool.
128
00:06:32,334 --> 00:06:34,435
And Ubisoft gave me a team from scratch.
129
00:06:34,540 --> 00:06:35,420
So I was like, okay.
130
00:06:35,420 --> 00:06:38,939
If you're gonna give, like, a Will development
team to a twenty five year old, like, this is
131
00:06:38,939 --> 00:06:39,660
like, let's go.
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00:06:39,660 --> 00:06:40,300
They didn't pay me
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00:06:40,300 --> 00:06:41,660
very much, but you know what?
134
00:06:41,660 --> 00:06:45,884
Like, I always always followed kind of like the
skill set in the passion first.
135
00:06:45,884 --> 00:06:47,324
So I was like, let's go do that.
136
00:06:47,324 --> 00:06:49,324
And I think I'm gonna develop some good skills.
137
00:06:49,324 --> 00:06:51,805
So I did some really simple game.
138
00:06:51,805 --> 00:06:58,139
My first game was like, a half $1,000,000 game,
like, where it was, it was a game for kids,
139
00:06:58,139 --> 00:07:00,459
like, a big, big top circus it was called.
140
00:07:00,459 --> 00:07:01,194
But you know what?
141
00:07:01,274 --> 00:07:06,154
You learn a lot by just doing a product cycle,
even on a on a on a game that just didn't
142
00:07:06,154 --> 00:07:11,509
really have a super good consumer appeal Foret
Justin wasn't it was really about getting Wii
143
00:07:11,509 --> 00:07:13,430
games on the shelf because that we had just
launched.
144
00:07:13,430 --> 00:07:16,334
But then after that, I did a good job on a game
that actually didn't matter.
145
00:07:16,334 --> 00:07:18,095
Gave me a bit bigger budget and a bigger team.
146
00:07:18,095 --> 00:07:21,615
And then I just kept growing, and I went all
the way to working on the, on the ghost recon
147
00:07:21,615 --> 00:07:25,154
franchise at ubisoft on my last project, which
was a big deal.
148
00:07:25,370 --> 00:07:25,949
Oh, man.
149
00:07:26,569 --> 00:07:27,289
And you know what?
150
00:07:27,289 --> 00:07:28,569
Like, my last team was bad.
151
00:07:28,569 --> 00:07:32,269
Like, I think it was probably between, like,
you know, 60, 70 people.
152
00:07:33,129 --> 00:07:40,365
And And interestingly enough, I started seeing
in games, like, like in the tools we were using
153
00:07:40,365 --> 00:07:44,500
for our teams, kind of like the answer to some
of the problem that I had experienced on job
154
00:07:44,500 --> 00:07:44,740
sites.
155
00:07:44,740 --> 00:07:50,775
And I was like, wow, if we could build that
tool on mobile, for construction people, that
156
00:07:50,775 --> 00:07:51,595
would be amazing.
157
00:07:51,655 --> 00:07:55,814
And so at one point when I got my green card at
Ubisoft, I was kind of ready to go.
158
00:07:55,814 --> 00:08:01,439
Like, I wasn't learning as much, and I was kind
of like, going back to the I wanna work on
159
00:08:01,439 --> 00:08:02,319
something tangible.
160
00:08:02,319 --> 00:08:06,985
I wanna feel like I wanna see what we're what
we're building here and, like, that have a
161
00:08:06,985 --> 00:08:08,745
lasting kind of like impact on society.
162
00:08:08,745 --> 00:08:12,665
And, and I went back to construction because,
ultimately, that's the sector that I really
163
00:08:12,665 --> 00:08:13,165
love.
164
00:08:13,550 --> 00:08:15,710
And I took all my own earnings from Ubisoft.
165
00:08:15,710 --> 00:08:16,350
I was like, okay.
166
00:08:16,350 --> 00:08:20,850
We're gonna do a task management platform, you
know, overlayed on plans for construction
167
00:08:20,990 --> 00:08:21,310
people.
168
00:08:21,310 --> 00:08:22,930
That was the the core belief.
169
00:08:24,064 --> 00:08:25,504
And we're gonna distribute it.
170
00:08:25,504 --> 00:08:27,024
Like, we distribute it to an online game.
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00:08:27,024 --> 00:08:30,464
Like, so we're gonna run ads and people are
gonna be able to download it themselves, and
172
00:08:30,464 --> 00:08:33,990
it's gonna be free to use that Foret but if
they really like it, then they can upgrade to a
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premium solution.
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00:08:34,710 --> 00:08:36,870
So it sounds really basic today.
175
00:08:36,870 --> 00:08:41,865
But back in, like, 2013, when we started the
company, that was my mind blowing.
176
00:08:41,865 --> 00:08:44,205
Like, nobody was running out on Google in
construction.
177
00:08:44,345 --> 00:08:46,825
Like, nobody was doing freemium in
construction, etcetera.
178
00:08:46,825 --> 00:08:51,085
And so I think it worked really great, and so I
think that's what took us to where we are now.
179
00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,899
So I need to ask you a really important
question here.
180
00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:55,679
Go for it.
181
00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:59,620
What games were you playing at the age of
twenty five that you really liked?
182
00:09:00,514 --> 00:09:03,335
At the end of 25, okay, that's a good question.
183
00:09:03,634 --> 00:09:05,875
I mean, I play way too much Counter Strike.
184
00:09:05,875 --> 00:09:08,134
I mean, that was that was a that's a big one.
185
00:09:08,740 --> 00:09:13,240
Home Will was a was a was a game that I've
always liked kind of like the the adventure
186
00:09:13,539 --> 00:09:18,575
escapism of of of gaming and that, like, Justin
experiencing not gonna be able to experience in
187
00:09:18,575 --> 00:09:18,815
life.
188
00:09:18,815 --> 00:09:22,654
So just, you know, anything that is, like,
space related, future related.
189
00:09:22,654 --> 00:09:25,039
Like, I think it's always been a mind blowing
experience.
190
00:09:25,039 --> 00:09:28,399
So I think those 2 is where, but, like, Counter
Strike is a game that I played Justin way too
191
00:09:28,399 --> 00:09:32,580
too much of the game that I've played the most
in my life in terms of playing through,
192
00:09:32,879 --> 00:09:41,590
through, A single story line is, I think the
original modern warfare because when I was
193
00:09:41,590 --> 00:09:45,830
working on ghost recon, it's basically you, you
study content.
194
00:09:45,830 --> 00:09:49,394
Like, when you're in gaming, you play you don't
only play the games, but you study the game,
195
00:09:49,394 --> 00:09:53,394
you deconstruct them, you try to find all this,
all this scenario breakdowns, all the
196
00:09:53,394 --> 00:09:54,754
situation, stuff like that.
197
00:09:54,754 --> 00:09:59,120
And between Black Hawk down as a movie, which
is in my mind, the greatest military movie
198
00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:04,240
made, like ever made in terms of the richness
and the the quality of, like, the storytelling
199
00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:08,144
and the scenario, And, and the first one in
warfare, I think, like, I must have watched
200
00:10:08,144 --> 00:10:11,985
Blackhawk down 20 times with, like, taking
notes while watching it and stuff like that and
201
00:10:11,985 --> 00:10:12,725
same thing.
202
00:10:12,860 --> 00:10:17,200
Modern warfare, I probably played through the
the single player campaign, like, I don't know,
203
00:10:17,340 --> 00:10:18,620
ten times end to end.
204
00:10:18,620 --> 00:10:19,840
Just taking notes.
205
00:10:20,095 --> 00:10:20,414
Wow.
206
00:10:20,414 --> 00:10:22,174
And then after that, you can speed through it.
207
00:10:22,174 --> 00:10:26,174
It's kinda crazy, but, like, you're you're
basically trying to go back to a certain spot.
208
00:10:26,174 --> 00:10:26,414
Yeah.
209
00:10:26,414 --> 00:10:30,939
I mean, I'm a huge fan of the what was the team
infinity ward that was working on that?
210
00:10:30,939 --> 00:10:35,259
Like, those guys were elite at the time where
where the Foret modern warfare came out.
211
00:10:35,259 --> 00:10:37,039
Like, that was a really impressive team.
212
00:10:38,214 --> 00:10:38,653
Will.
213
00:10:38,714 --> 00:10:39,214
Okay.
214
00:10:39,674 --> 00:10:41,195
I appreciate that.
215
00:10:41,195 --> 00:10:43,774
I appreciate the modern warfare on Counter
Strike.
216
00:10:43,914 --> 00:10:47,470
I may or may not have, done a little bit of
that, a little too much of that.
217
00:10:47,870 --> 00:10:48,769
In my day.
218
00:10:48,990 --> 00:10:51,730
Look, you can still be successful later on in
life.
219
00:10:53,470 --> 00:10:56,745
I was just about to say that's that's that's a
big thing here.
220
00:10:56,745 --> 00:11:01,384
I think a lot of times we, you know, the
entrepreneur that grinds and it's all I do and
221
00:11:01,384 --> 00:11:01,945
all that stuff.
222
00:11:01,945 --> 00:11:03,680
It's like, I was playing games too.
223
00:11:03,680 --> 00:11:04,960
Like, that that was also happening.
224
00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:06,740
I was still enjoying my life.
225
00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:08,800
You know, not not being miserable.
226
00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:09,040
So
227
00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:13,985
I mean, this is how my my cofounder and I met
at Ubisoft like, even to this day, we're still
228
00:11:13,985 --> 00:11:15,105
getting together in the evening.
229
00:11:15,105 --> 00:11:19,345
That's kind of like our way to to chat about
work in a in a more relaxed environment.
230
00:11:19,345 --> 00:11:23,720
Like, grabbing a beer and you're gaming online,
which makes our watch like crazy because
231
00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:26,839
they're like, you see each other all day long
and you're gonna game with each other in the
232
00:11:26,839 --> 00:11:28,059
evening, but you know what?
233
00:11:28,235 --> 00:11:29,835
It works, and we have to explain to them.
234
00:11:29,835 --> 00:11:33,195
Like, the only reason that we are where we are
is because, like, we're we're serious gamers,
235
00:11:33,195 --> 00:11:34,735
and we we take our craft seriously.
236
00:11:34,795 --> 00:11:35,295
So,
237
00:11:35,995 --> 00:11:40,070
obviously, our audience is, owners, you know,
high level leaders at construction And
238
00:11:40,070 --> 00:11:41,830
Architecture Engineering Firms, right?
239
00:11:41,830 --> 00:11:47,004
But I think we might have a new audience now, a
new segment of just Neagle that are video
240
00:11:47,004 --> 00:11:49,804
gamers that want to be successful, not
necessarily in the
241
00:11:49,804 --> 00:11:50,125
game
242
00:11:50,125 --> 00:11:54,629
space, but, like, just wanna, like, hey, you
can still do this and have an amazing life.
243
00:11:54,629 --> 00:11:55,910
And that that's gonna be it.
244
00:11:55,910 --> 00:11:56,789
So, alright.
245
00:11:56,789 --> 00:11:57,669
So let's dive in.
246
00:11:57,669 --> 00:11:58,561
So you have five Neagle.
247
00:11:58,710 --> 00:11:59,610
You go to 250.
248
00:12:00,230 --> 00:12:00,730
Yep.
249
00:12:00,789 --> 00:12:05,944
That's that's massive growth in a very short,
amount of time what what what's the big
250
00:12:05,944 --> 00:12:06,444
differences?
251
00:12:06,584 --> 00:12:09,865
What changed in your life, what changed in the
culture?
252
00:12:09,865 --> 00:12:13,084
What like, what what were all the first that
you kind of experienced?
253
00:12:14,330 --> 00:12:15,070
It's interesting.
254
00:12:15,129 --> 00:12:21,450
I think there are there are definitely a couple
of phases and and what you focus on changes
255
00:12:21,450 --> 00:12:22,269
quite dramatically.
256
00:12:22,490 --> 00:12:28,855
So I think the 1st phase of the company is
probably when a company is between 0 and 1.
257
00:12:30,034 --> 00:12:36,649
I think it's the it's the product market fit
Foret, and I think that's where you have to you
258
00:12:36,649 --> 00:12:40,570
have to project very hard what your company
could be because you really have nothing to
259
00:12:40,570 --> 00:12:41,274
show for Right?
260
00:12:41,274 --> 00:12:44,154
It's just two people reasonably smart.
261
00:12:44,154 --> 00:12:48,875
You have a light track record, but nothing on
the scale of, like, we've already built one
262
00:12:48,875 --> 00:12:51,539
company, the our second one, you know, like,
that was our Foret company.
263
00:12:51,539 --> 00:12:53,399
So you have to convince everyone.
264
00:12:55,860 --> 00:12:59,625
So interestingly enough, it's very easy to be
bold when you're small.
265
00:12:59,684 --> 00:13:02,565
Like nobody knows you, nobody cares about what
you're doing.
266
00:13:02,565 --> 00:13:04,585
So you can Neagle do whatever you want.
267
00:13:04,809 --> 00:13:07,289
And worst case scenario, nobody ever knows
about it.
268
00:13:07,289 --> 00:13:10,250
In best case scenario, it actually works and
that works.
269
00:13:10,250 --> 00:13:12,029
So the problem is not being bold.
270
00:13:12,029 --> 00:13:16,485
The problem is is really a bad just I mean, I
would say almost being right.
271
00:13:16,485 --> 00:13:21,950
It's Justin, like, be very focused on on on
doing something, doing in right, and and
272
00:13:21,950 --> 00:13:22,429
surviving.
273
00:13:22,429 --> 00:13:24,370
Like your your goal is to exist.
274
00:13:24,669 --> 00:13:26,909
You exist, you know, like you're trying to find
a lawyer.
275
00:13:26,909 --> 00:13:31,414
You're trying to find you Foret, like, your
first investors, etcetera, you're trying to,
276
00:13:31,414 --> 00:13:35,654
like, it's very easy to die when you make less
than, I don't know, like, 10,000,000 a year.
277
00:13:35,654 --> 00:13:37,575
I think, like, for me, like, I always had that
vision.
278
00:13:37,575 --> 00:13:42,240
It's like, the day where we make 10,000,000,
you can't die anymore, like, or you can die,
279
00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:44,240
but it's gonna take 10, 20 years for you to
die.
280
00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:47,299
Like, there's so many levers you can pull when
you have a little bit of revenue.
281
00:13:47,415 --> 00:13:50,054
But when you're small, like, I mean, and we
almost died.
282
00:13:50,054 --> 00:13:53,735
I think we it was right before we raised our
series a.
283
00:13:53,735 --> 00:13:55,735
Like, we we flew very close to the sun.
284
00:13:55,735 --> 00:14:00,289
It's funny because our engineers were pretty
smart, and they could kinda see the writing on
285
00:14:00,289 --> 00:14:00,629
the Will.
286
00:14:00,690 --> 00:14:03,705
And, I I only learned that a couple years
after.
287
00:14:03,705 --> 00:14:08,504
But, like, one of our of our good friend who at
the time was our our head of engineering, Sam,
288
00:14:08,504 --> 00:14:10,424
told me it was like, yeah, I did some napkin
mess.
289
00:14:10,424 --> 00:14:11,289
It was like, okay.
290
00:14:11,289 --> 00:14:15,129
Guess I should start polishing my resume
because I think one day, he was gonna show up
291
00:14:15,129 --> 00:14:16,829
and tell us we don't have money anymore.
292
00:14:17,129 --> 00:14:21,855
And, so that was an example, but, but, then we
had good support from our investors.
293
00:14:21,855 --> 00:14:24,815
We actually had investors that were really
good, like, Bloomberg better and, like,
294
00:14:25,934 --> 00:14:27,475
awesome, awesome seed investors.
295
00:14:27,779 --> 00:14:28,660
And they had told us.
296
00:14:28,660 --> 00:14:29,779
And I was like, guys, don't worry.
297
00:14:29,779 --> 00:14:32,500
If you ever need money, just give us a call
within a week.
298
00:14:32,500 --> 00:14:36,634
We Will, we will be able to get you a little
bit of money on a on the same term as the seed
299
00:14:36,634 --> 00:14:36,875
point.
300
00:14:36,875 --> 00:14:41,835
So we actually took a lot of risk, but we
actually had a safety blanket, which is how you
301
00:14:41,835 --> 00:14:43,835
can take risk, you know, like, and that's a big
part.
302
00:14:43,835 --> 00:14:48,950
So that first part, like the 0 to 1,000,000 of
AR, I think it's really about existing and just
303
00:14:48,950 --> 00:14:52,330
making sure you don't run out of money because
that's that's what, that's what's difficult.
304
00:14:52,875 --> 00:14:56,955
We built it in a really strange way, because as
I said, like, we, we started distributing
305
00:14:56,955 --> 00:14:59,054
software and construction in the same way.
306
00:14:59,835 --> 00:15:04,649
We would, we would have done Like, what I love
about gaming is there's nobody telling you the
307
00:15:04,649 --> 00:15:05,610
value of the product.
308
00:15:05,610 --> 00:15:07,610
Nobody's explaining you how to play the game.
309
00:15:07,610 --> 00:15:12,995
And it was like, That is a standard that is
absolutely replicable in in a professional
310
00:15:12,995 --> 00:15:13,495
environment.
311
00:15:13,554 --> 00:15:17,809
Like, it's like games can be incredibly
complex, and people will go through, like, the
312
00:15:17,809 --> 00:15:20,850
hassle of of learning it because it's well
designed.
313
00:15:20,850 --> 00:15:21,830
It's well explained.
314
00:15:22,861 --> 00:15:25,455
Neagle, ultimately, like, there is no benefit
for them.
315
00:15:25,455 --> 00:15:27,215
It's not like they're filing their taxes,
right?
316
00:15:27,215 --> 00:15:31,610
So if they're ready to do that for fun, it's
absolutely believable that they will do that.
317
00:15:31,610 --> 00:15:33,209
Just kinda, like, helped them Will their job.
318
00:15:33,209 --> 00:15:36,350
So that was the standard, and we got there,
like, really, really quickly.
319
00:15:37,129 --> 00:15:40,875
Building a $1,000,000 bottom up, it's probably
not the fastest way to do it.
320
00:15:40,955 --> 00:15:48,014
But the great thing is when you do that, the
next 9,000,000 to go to 10 was like effortless.
321
00:15:48,429 --> 00:15:53,470
I mean, I'm I'm just making it a little bit
simpler, but there was literally no hack in the
322
00:15:53,470 --> 00:15:56,975
way we brought in our, our Foret $1,000,000 of
Justin.
323
00:15:56,975 --> 00:16:02,815
And then from 1 to 10, usually can be a very,
very hard journey because if you've sold the
324
00:16:02,914 --> 00:16:06,870
Foret Will yourself, like, as a founder,
because you're really inspirational, you're a
325
00:16:06,870 --> 00:16:10,889
great sales guy, you're not gonna be able to do
10 by yourself.
326
00:16:11,004 --> 00:16:12,605
Like, you're gonna need more people to do that.
327
00:16:12,605 --> 00:16:16,605
And they might not have the same skill that you
have if you're truly an amazing sales guy.
328
00:16:16,605 --> 00:16:22,629
And so for us, people Will downloading the
product, starting to use it, buying it, you
329
00:16:22,629 --> 00:16:23,910
know, we're not even talking to us.
330
00:16:23,910 --> 00:16:25,669
So we knew they were buying the product.
331
00:16:25,669 --> 00:16:27,924
They were not buying, like, what we were
telling them it.
332
00:16:27,924 --> 00:16:31,304
So that was, I think, like, the, the really
interesting first part of the journey.
333
00:16:31,445 --> 00:16:35,524
From 1 to 10 after that, as I said, it was
probably the easiest part of the company
334
00:16:35,524 --> 00:16:38,720
because we were less than fifty Neagle, so the
team wasn't big.
335
00:16:39,339 --> 00:16:40,799
Culture wasn't really challenging.
336
00:16:41,259 --> 00:16:45,039
And, and once again, we had built the Foret
mill without a hack, so it grew pretty well.
337
00:16:45,764 --> 00:16:49,865
10 to further, like, which is kinda like going
from 50 to, like, 200 employees.
338
00:16:50,004 --> 00:16:54,519
I mean, we went to actually about a 150 before
the acquisition Will healthy.
339
00:16:54,899 --> 00:16:57,080
That's when culture starts hitting you.
340
00:16:57,220 --> 00:16:58,980
That's when it becomes hard to be bold.
341
00:16:58,980 --> 00:17:03,054
Like, now you have a lot of customers in the
market, you know, every time you make a change,
342
00:17:03,054 --> 00:17:07,535
even if it's the greatest change in the Will,
and 99% of your customers are stoked about it,
343
00:17:07,535 --> 00:17:11,650
there's always 1% of the customers that Will
send you an email being This is unacceptable.
344
00:17:11,789 --> 00:17:13,070
This is not the right thing.
345
00:17:13,070 --> 00:17:17,809
And then you need to start really writing them
what do you actually believe in?
346
00:17:17,865 --> 00:17:20,744
And what are the use case that you're actually
trying to serve?
347
00:17:20,744 --> 00:17:22,265
What are the customers you're trying to serve?
348
00:17:22,265 --> 00:17:25,164
Because there's always a customer that wants
you to be sensing you're not.
349
00:17:25,180 --> 00:17:29,100
And then, like, you have to be like, it doesn't
matter if they wanna pay us money or not.
350
00:17:29,100 --> 00:17:31,259
Like, do we believe in what they're saying or
not?
351
00:17:31,259 --> 00:17:36,575
And and when you start doing that, like, you
start actually finding a way to be to be bold
352
00:17:36,575 --> 00:17:41,534
at the time where where sometimes people are
just, you know, nobody you you cannot make the
353
00:17:41,534 --> 00:17:42,335
entire world happy.
354
00:17:42,335 --> 00:17:44,660
So that was kind of like a kind of a journey.
355
00:17:44,799 --> 00:17:46,000
Scaling companies is hard.
356
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:46,980
Culture is hard.
357
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:53,484
I mean, culture becomes hard when you're not
directly connected to the people directly as a
358
00:17:53,484 --> 00:17:53,805
founder.
359
00:17:53,805 --> 00:17:57,805
I think the first fifty, seventy five people,
they probably know you very well intimately.
360
00:17:57,805 --> 00:18:00,865
And so the culture is kinda like how the
founders behave.
361
00:18:01,059 --> 00:18:06,579
When you go past that point, you don't spend
enough time with everyone so that they can
362
00:18:06,579 --> 00:18:07,779
actually adopt your values.
363
00:18:07,779 --> 00:18:09,960
You're not actually interviewing everyone
anymore.
364
00:18:10,434 --> 00:18:14,115
We try to meet everyone when they start, but
we, we haven't necessarily been part of their
365
00:18:14,115 --> 00:18:14,914
interview process.
366
00:18:14,914 --> 00:18:19,220
And then then you start recruiting people that
also have different forms of belief, which is
367
00:18:19,220 --> 00:18:19,380
cool.
368
00:18:19,380 --> 00:18:23,700
I don't think we need to agree on everything,
but I think there is a Foret sets of value that
369
00:18:23,700 --> 00:18:25,559
that we are we have to align on.
370
00:18:26,044 --> 00:18:28,444
And so I think that's the 2nd part of the of
the journey.
371
00:18:28,444 --> 00:18:29,424
That's a bit different.
372
00:18:29,964 --> 00:18:33,244
So, I mean, that piece for the from the high
level perspective, those are those are kinda
373
00:18:33,244 --> 00:18:34,160
like the big phases.
374
00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:38,419
And now we're in the post acquisition phase
where, you know, we grew from 150 to 150
375
00:18:38,888 --> 00:18:41,119
Neagle, much bigger company to interface Will.
376
00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:43,934
I mean, but we can talk that, like, as a
separate topic?
377
00:18:44,394 --> 00:18:44,714
Yes.
378
00:18:44,714 --> 00:18:48,474
So you you talked about being bold or being
radical, right?
379
00:18:48,474 --> 00:18:50,779
You know, you're just being being that Right?
380
00:18:50,779 --> 00:18:52,619
So that's that's part of the culture, right?
381
00:18:52,619 --> 00:18:54,400
Like, you're you're this is who we are.
382
00:18:54,460 --> 00:18:58,140
Now, Will comes in and says, hey, you know,
like, we were already, like, investing in you
383
00:18:58,140 --> 00:19:01,634
prior, but like, hey, like, We want we want we
want the whole pie.
384
00:19:01,634 --> 00:19:01,875
Right?
385
00:19:01,875 --> 00:19:03,794
Like, we want we want the whole thing.
386
00:19:03,794 --> 00:19:08,609
We want you to still run it and do that, but,
like, what what stressors is that put on?
387
00:19:08,609 --> 00:19:10,609
Like, you know, obviously this is very
different now.
388
00:19:10,609 --> 00:19:15,569
Now you're it's it's you've gone from this
thing that you created that was an idea that
389
00:19:15,569 --> 00:19:19,585
you, like, It's just like gaming and, like,
people love it and, like, all this stuff and,
390
00:19:19,585 --> 00:19:24,644
like, there's so much, like, energy and
boldness to the the con the concept.
391
00:19:25,090 --> 00:19:26,369
So then, like, oh, yeah.
392
00:19:26,369 --> 00:19:29,910
Like, Pilty is, like, like, one of the
construction.
393
00:19:30,049 --> 00:19:30,289
Right?
394
00:19:30,289 --> 00:19:30,450
Yeah.
395
00:19:30,450 --> 00:19:30,610
Yeah.
396
00:19:30,610 --> 00:19:33,490
It is, like, one of the ones that it's, like,
397
00:19:33,490 --> 00:19:34,070
oh, man.
398
00:19:34,130 --> 00:19:35,075
Now Yeah.
399
00:19:35,075 --> 00:19:38,375
Like, now it's a that's a it's like the the
game changed.
400
00:19:38,914 --> 00:19:41,335
Like, you did you're not playing the same game
anymore.
401
00:19:41,394 --> 00:19:41,875
Right?
402
00:19:41,875 --> 00:19:46,910
And how do you keep that bold or that
radicalness that got you to where you are with
403
00:19:46,910 --> 00:19:49,549
having this much larger umbrella above you?
404
00:19:49,549 --> 00:19:51,730
So that's a that's a that's a good question.
405
00:19:52,029 --> 00:19:53,250
How do we stay bold?
406
00:19:54,015 --> 00:19:56,654
Maybe we we we can backtrack to what was the
link between Fieldware and Hilti?
407
00:19:56,654 --> 00:20:06,410
I mean, the first investment, because they came
in at the Series B, like, completely randomly.
408
00:20:07,029 --> 00:20:11,765
They were visiting the valley, McKinsey, like,
the consultancy organized like a Silicon Valley
409
00:20:11,765 --> 00:20:12,325
tour for them.
410
00:20:12,325 --> 00:20:13,045
They called us.
411
00:20:13,045 --> 00:20:16,991
The McKinsey office was at the time a couple
blocks from our office, and they were like, do
412
00:20:16,991 --> 00:20:17,765
you want me to Will you?
413
00:20:17,765 --> 00:20:18,485
And we're like, sure.
414
00:20:18,485 --> 00:20:19,500
We'll Will come in healthy.
415
00:20:19,500 --> 00:20:21,839
Like, we had zero expectation from that
meeting.
416
00:20:21,980 --> 00:20:26,079
As we got to learn later, Will had zero
expectation from that meeting either.
417
00:20:26,140 --> 00:20:30,345
You know, basically, we we just came in and we
were like, I mean, the they were a little bit
418
00:20:30,345 --> 00:20:31,944
late to for the meeting to stop.
419
00:20:31,944 --> 00:20:36,585
And and I asked them, like, so what you know,
while we're waiting for the rest of the group
420
00:20:36,585 --> 00:20:37,880
to get to the meeting room.
421
00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:39,080
Like, what are you interested in?
422
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:41,240
Like, you know, and they said, like, oh,
really?
423
00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:42,039
Like, we're healthy.
424
00:20:42,039 --> 00:20:43,480
We do not invest in start ups.
425
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:45,240
So I wanna be very clear about that.
426
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:49,335
Like, we're just trying to learn And by the
way, you know, why did you show up?
427
00:20:49,335 --> 00:20:51,014
And at the time, I was a little bit upset.
428
00:20:51,014 --> 00:20:52,294
So I was like, you know what?
429
00:20:52,294 --> 00:20:55,269
We're 5 minutes from our office, and we never
know what comes out of those meetings.
430
00:20:55,349 --> 00:20:59,289
And so in that meeting, we start presenting
the, we start presenting the product.
431
00:20:59,589 --> 00:21:04,674
And then there's this realization that the
mission of field wire software, which is we try
432
00:21:04,674 --> 00:21:10,434
to bring productivity at the workplace, like,
in the craftman's end, which is exactly what
433
00:21:10,434 --> 00:21:11,190
Hilti does.
434
00:21:11,269 --> 00:21:15,450
Like, that's that same exact value prop, and
they see us pitching the company with software.
435
00:21:15,589 --> 00:21:19,585
And they're like, this is kinda crazy because
you replace software with hardware, And that's
436
00:21:19,585 --> 00:21:21,025
a pitch for a healthy tool.
437
00:21:21,025 --> 00:21:24,565
It's like, yes, it's it's more expensive than
the way you do it today.
438
00:21:24,704 --> 00:21:28,005
But if that's if that's your craft, is that
your job?
439
00:21:28,210 --> 00:21:31,589
Like, you will be better off with with a with a
healthy product.
440
00:21:31,890 --> 00:21:38,205
And and on top of it, there was something
really random, which is you know, in an
441
00:21:38,205 --> 00:21:43,085
unlikely turn of event, we had actually met a
healthy team earlier that year that was looking
442
00:21:43,085 --> 00:21:47,080
for apps to pre install on one of their range
binders, which Foret, like, just kinda, like,
443
00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:49,420
measurement, you know, distance measurement
tools.
444
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:51,080
And we had said, like, sure.
445
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:52,119
It takes us 5 minutes.
446
00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:55,565
Here's his RPK, like, start pre installing on
your Android device.
447
00:21:56,345 --> 00:21:59,144
And every time they were selling one of those
fields, was on it.
448
00:21:59,144 --> 00:22:02,990
And so we had a slide in that meeting to be
because, I mean, basically what happened is we
449
00:22:02,990 --> 00:22:04,509
realized the mission is the same.
450
00:22:04,509 --> 00:22:06,849
Management goes like, okay, we gotta work
together.
451
00:22:06,910 --> 00:22:07,950
Like, I really like those guys.
452
00:22:07,950 --> 00:22:08,549
Let's work together.
453
00:22:08,549 --> 00:22:10,525
It was like, oh, we're already working
together.
454
00:22:10,525 --> 00:22:14,365
By the way, every time you start, you'll learn
a song on it.
455
00:22:14,365 --> 00:22:17,484
And then you've never seen a meeting that just
blow up like that.
456
00:22:17,561 --> 00:22:19,164
Justin they were like, what's going on?
457
00:22:19,164 --> 00:22:19,670
You know?
458
00:22:19,670 --> 00:22:22,549
They're like, did you just slap your screenshot
on top of our devices?
459
00:22:22,549 --> 00:22:23,029
Like, no.
460
00:22:23,029 --> 00:22:23,190
No.
461
00:22:23,190 --> 00:22:23,269
No.
462
00:22:23,269 --> 00:22:24,309
Like, we're we're pre installing.
463
00:22:24,309 --> 00:22:26,330
You're pre installing Fieldwire on your
devices.
464
00:22:26,710 --> 00:22:28,150
And and so they were like, okay.
465
00:22:28,150 --> 00:22:29,674
This is just too insane.
466
00:22:30,615 --> 00:22:34,455
And they walked out of that meeting, and, and
their CFO at the time was like, okay, we want
467
00:22:34,455 --> 00:22:35,015
to invest.
468
00:22:35,015 --> 00:22:36,009
How do we do that?
469
00:22:36,009 --> 00:22:39,450
And and we're like, okay, we're in the middle
of actually raising our Series B.
470
00:22:39,450 --> 00:22:43,470
We don't want you to take a a majority position
in that because, like, we don't want,
471
00:22:44,515 --> 00:22:45,974
Scare Scalar investors.
472
00:22:46,434 --> 00:22:46,595
Yeah.
473
00:22:46,595 --> 00:22:46,835
Yeah.
474
00:22:46,835 --> 00:22:50,855
Like, we like we like VC money because VC money
is clean from a signaling perspective.
475
00:22:50,914 --> 00:22:56,340
Like, VCs only care about the commercial
success of the company, which makes it very,
476
00:22:56,340 --> 00:22:56,980
very clean.
477
00:22:56,980 --> 00:22:59,140
Like, if a VC invests, it just means it's good.
478
00:22:59,140 --> 00:23:03,775
When a corporate invest they can be a lot of,
like, kind of like other intentions behind it.
479
00:23:03,775 --> 00:23:07,075
And, and so we don't want too much of a round
to be, to be corporate.
480
00:23:07,215 --> 00:23:08,414
And so that worked great.
481
00:23:08,414 --> 00:23:12,700
We closed our Series B, By the way, at the end
of the series B, Hilti Justin out of just she
482
00:23:12,700 --> 00:23:13,740
on ST was like, Hey, guys.
483
00:23:13,740 --> 00:23:15,259
I wanna be very, very clear.
484
00:23:15,259 --> 00:23:18,380
We invested in fieldwork, but Hilti doesn't
acquire a start up.
485
00:23:18,380 --> 00:23:19,825
So Just that will never happen.
486
00:23:19,825 --> 00:23:20,944
And we're like, yeah, no problem.
487
00:23:20,944 --> 00:23:23,505
You know, so why did we take the investment at
the time?
488
00:23:23,505 --> 00:23:27,430
Because we're excited about the distribution
power of Will.
489
00:23:27,570 --> 00:23:32,210
Like, Hilti has this incredible model where
they have like, I don't know, 20,000 people in
490
00:23:32,210 --> 00:23:32,590
the Will.
491
00:23:32,825 --> 00:23:37,384
That Justin get in the red, healthy cars, go
visit the job sites, just bring the tools
492
00:23:37,384 --> 00:23:41,224
directly to the people that are on the site,
and that's the level of relationship that you
493
00:23:41,224 --> 00:23:46,259
don't find anywhere And so we're like, just
imagine if we could leverage that to just reach
494
00:23:46,259 --> 00:23:48,840
customer with Fieldwire, like, that would be a
massive acceleration.
495
00:23:49,140 --> 00:23:51,555
So none of that actually happened investment.
496
00:23:51,615 --> 00:23:52,975
Like, we tried to submit it.
497
00:23:52,975 --> 00:23:54,755
It's impossible to get it.
498
00:23:54,894 --> 00:24:00,039
But that being said, 4 years later, Will came
back and he was like, Do you guys remember how
499
00:24:00,039 --> 00:24:01,819
we said we would never acquire a start?
500
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,539
Well, that, you know, now it's it's our top
priority.
501
00:24:04,839 --> 00:24:06,359
Would you consider working with us?
502
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:10,785
And we're like, Have you ever acquired a start
up, like, of, you know, software start up,
503
00:24:10,785 --> 00:24:11,424
like, field buyer?
504
00:24:11,424 --> 00:24:12,065
They're like, no.
505
00:24:12,065 --> 00:24:12,465
Like, no.
506
00:24:12,465 --> 00:24:14,705
That scale is like, well, let's be honest with
each other.
507
00:24:14,705 --> 00:24:17,589
The the chance of success are very low.
508
00:24:17,970 --> 00:24:21,809
But, you know, if we run a good process and we
find that there is something that works, let's
509
00:24:21,809 --> 00:24:22,130
do it.
510
00:24:22,130 --> 00:24:23,889
And we said, let's do Foret meetings.
511
00:24:23,889 --> 00:24:28,065
And if at the end of meetings, we can agree on
the vision and on the price, then we will do
512
00:24:28,065 --> 00:24:29,525
due diligence and we'll exploit.
513
00:24:29,744 --> 00:24:30,625
And that's what happened.
514
00:24:30,625 --> 00:24:32,644
It's the most unlikely of all acquisitions.
515
00:24:33,140 --> 00:24:34,580
I don't think they saw it coming.
516
00:24:34,580 --> 00:24:36,100
I don't think we saw it coming.
517
00:24:36,100 --> 00:24:39,380
And in the end, I think it ended up being one
of the acquisitions that has made the most
518
00:24:39,380 --> 00:24:40,440
sense in the industry.
519
00:24:40,884 --> 00:24:42,825
Compared to other ones that you've seen
recently.
520
00:24:43,684 --> 00:24:43,924
Wow.
521
00:24:43,924 --> 00:24:44,424
Wow.
522
00:24:44,644 --> 00:24:46,184
Match match made in heaven.
523
00:24:46,244 --> 00:24:46,484
Right?
524
00:24:46,484 --> 00:24:46,724
Yeah.
525
00:24:46,724 --> 00:24:46,884
No.
526
00:24:46,884 --> 00:24:47,545
It's tough.
527
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,480
And so, you know, back to back to kind of like
so it starts with the mission.
528
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:52,940
The mission was really good.
529
00:24:53,159 --> 00:24:55,244
I think a lot of the values were common.
530
00:24:55,244 --> 00:24:57,244
Know craftsmanship is our number one value.
531
00:24:57,244 --> 00:25:01,265
I think that's also what connects us to the
industry, but that's also a very, very core,
532
00:25:01,404 --> 00:25:07,819
you know, Will likes, I mean, almost over
engineering going the extra mile when nobody
533
00:25:07,819 --> 00:25:10,859
else is, and and, you know, we find ourselves
in that value.
534
00:25:10,859 --> 00:25:12,480
So I think that's that's pretty good.
535
00:25:12,634 --> 00:25:17,399
So now in terms of staying bold, which was, I
think, where we started, in those Foret
536
00:25:17,515 --> 00:25:23,920
meetings that I talked about, the first meeting
was you are the big fish in this relationship,
537
00:25:24,539 --> 00:25:28,460
meaning that and on top of it, you're you're
you're the buyer in this relationship, which
538
00:25:28,460 --> 00:25:29,920
gives you a little bit of weight.
539
00:25:30,674 --> 00:25:32,934
We wanna hear the vision that you have for
software.
540
00:25:33,075 --> 00:25:34,115
Where are you going?
541
00:25:34,115 --> 00:25:38,880
Because we know that if that vision is not
compatible with our vision, Like, we're not
542
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,220
gonna be able to change it or to alter it
significantly.
543
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:47,775
And they literally pitched what we had in mind
for where field wire was to go.
544
00:25:47,775 --> 00:25:51,295
And and literally, at the end of that first
meeting, I told them, like, are you telling us
545
00:25:51,295 --> 00:25:53,615
what we wanna hear, or is this really what you
believe in?
546
00:25:53,615 --> 00:25:55,615
And and I think that's really what they
believed in.
547
00:25:55,615 --> 00:26:00,859
And so a key part for us to be able to stay
bold was to maintain a certain level of
548
00:26:00,859 --> 00:26:02,859
operational autonomy, and I was very clear.
549
00:26:02,859 --> 00:26:07,994
I was like, If we do this and if we're really
serious about making it successful, I think we
550
00:26:07,994 --> 00:26:13,855
need to be, we need to be very mindful about
preserving organizational speed in the company.
551
00:26:14,190 --> 00:26:16,130
And that means a certain level of independence.
552
00:26:16,190 --> 00:26:17,710
And so I think we're getting that.
553
00:26:17,710 --> 00:26:20,289
I think it's been actually a fairly incredible
journey.
554
00:26:20,669 --> 00:26:26,404
I'm part of, like, you know, CEO groups where
we exchange, we trade notes to see, like, you
555
00:26:26,404 --> 00:26:30,805
know, we can pair each other's business to, to
make sure, to find good ideas and to help each
556
00:26:30,805 --> 00:26:31,305
other.
557
00:26:31,445 --> 00:26:37,829
I think most acquisitions and end up in in
object failure, I think 90% of them will will
558
00:26:37,829 --> 00:26:40,875
more be like kind of like less good than, than
not.
559
00:26:40,875 --> 00:26:42,315
I think we're in the 10% right now.
560
00:26:42,315 --> 00:26:44,735
I think like the business has been expanding,
like, dramatically.
561
00:26:45,434 --> 00:26:47,674
You know, the support of the buyer has been
incredible.
562
00:26:47,674 --> 00:26:51,420
I mean, like, we've doubled the team in size I
mean, not quite, but, like, you know, very
563
00:26:51,420 --> 00:26:53,600
significantly since we've been here.
564
00:26:54,299 --> 00:26:56,539
And, yeah, it it's it's been Justin.
565
00:26:56,539 --> 00:27:01,345
And and I and I do believe that, like, you
know, this this is this will end up being like
566
00:27:01,345 --> 00:27:06,625
a an impact multiplier for for Will wire as a
company, which ultimately is my is my goal at
567
00:27:06,625 --> 00:27:07,684
the end of the day.
568
00:27:09,179 --> 00:27:13,419
So when so when you start, obviously, you're in
development already.
569
00:27:13,419 --> 00:27:14,460
So you start this.
570
00:27:14,460 --> 00:27:17,099
Obviously, you had to have been doing some some
form of coding.
571
00:27:17,099 --> 00:27:17,305
Right?
572
00:27:17,305 --> 00:27:19,164
Right, that had to be a piece of oyster.
573
00:27:19,625 --> 00:27:24,105
So at what point is that like because this this
happens with GC subs, right?
574
00:27:24,105 --> 00:27:26,445
Like they they're they're the they're the
hammer.
575
00:27:26,569 --> 00:27:27,929
Like, they're doing the work.
576
00:27:27,929 --> 00:27:33,049
And they get to a certain point where it's
like, I can't I can't do this and grow the
577
00:27:33,049 --> 00:27:33,450
business.
578
00:27:33,450 --> 00:27:35,414
Like, that's not how like, this doesn't work
that way.
579
00:27:35,494 --> 00:27:40,855
So, like, what what stage you did you find,
like, man, we hit fifty people and it's like, I
580
00:27:40,855 --> 00:27:48,320
need to just go work on strategy or, vision or,
like, I need to think about more people Foret
581
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:53,680
processes in comparison to, like, doing the
specialty work that you're actually delivering
582
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:54,580
to the end user.
583
00:27:54,684 --> 00:27:56,044
That's a that's a good question.
584
00:27:56,044 --> 00:28:04,470
So you take the Foret prototype of field wire
who's basically like just me doing that nights
585
00:28:04,470 --> 00:28:08,730
and weekend, you know, just the design, the
code, the the everything, right?
586
00:28:09,109 --> 00:28:15,994
Then we raise some money, and and Javed joined,
like, as as as cofounder, the next step after
587
00:28:15,994 --> 00:28:22,700
that was I probably kept coding for probably
the 1st year But then we started hiring 3
588
00:28:22,700 --> 00:28:26,299
engineers that were better programmers than I I
mean, Foret of all, we had to the thing that I
589
00:28:26,299 --> 00:28:29,340
had written, which was, which Justin quite a
bit of work.
590
00:28:29,340 --> 00:28:31,884
Like, you just scraped that up are still small
parts of the code.
591
00:28:31,884 --> 00:28:34,605
Like, our CTO was telling me the other day,
there Will still some parts of the code that
592
00:28:34,605 --> 00:28:35,325
are still mine.
593
00:28:35,325 --> 00:28:37,809
But, I mean, I recommend we get rid of all of
that.
594
00:28:38,769 --> 00:28:40,529
And There's just
595
00:28:40,529 --> 00:28:41,410
a little there's
596
00:28:41,410 --> 00:28:42,289
a little
597
00:28:42,289 --> 00:28:44,049
line that I know is me.
598
00:28:44,049 --> 00:28:46,184
That's that's how I know the ship still fun.
599
00:28:46,484 --> 00:28:51,045
The the size of projects we do nowadays is a
little bit incompatible with the performance of
600
00:28:51,045 --> 00:28:52,744
the code that I must have written originally.
601
00:28:52,964 --> 00:28:54,984
But, yeah, so I stopped programming.
602
00:28:55,220 --> 00:29:01,859
So, basically, I was I was overseeing Will R
and D, so engineering product design, and Javed
603
00:29:01,859 --> 00:29:03,775
was doing every other job in the company.
604
00:29:03,775 --> 00:29:08,575
Like, which was hilarious because we had to
change, like, on on Foret, you know, it would
605
00:29:08,575 --> 00:29:09,214
say Javed.
606
00:29:09,214 --> 00:29:12,174
And one time there's a, you know, initially,
you don't care about it.
607
00:29:12,174 --> 00:29:16,079
But at some point, some customer customers
started asking, are you like, the job at
608
00:29:16,079 --> 00:29:19,599
question mark as the cofounder of the company
is answering this Foret call?
609
00:29:19,599 --> 00:29:20,240
It was like, okay.
610
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:21,279
We we gotta change that.
611
00:29:21,279 --> 00:29:24,095
I think we renamed Foret, like, Samantha or
something like that.
612
00:29:24,095 --> 00:29:26,754
You know, like, something that would be a
little a little less obvious.
613
00:29:27,375 --> 00:29:33,190
So, yeah, I stopped I stopped programming Then
after that, I stopped doing design, but I kept
614
00:29:33,190 --> 00:29:36,230
product for a long time because I think that
was kinda like the the core.
615
00:29:36,230 --> 00:29:40,714
At the core, I think we're a product company,
and and that's where most of the beliefs are
616
00:29:40,774 --> 00:29:41,274
contained.
617
00:29:41,734 --> 00:29:45,335
And then I think we went pretty Foret.
618
00:29:45,335 --> 00:29:49,580
Then we have our current head of product that
joined the teams, Stefan, that that we ramped
619
00:29:49,580 --> 00:29:49,740
up.
620
00:29:49,740 --> 00:29:53,420
So Foret of all, you stop being a a frontline
product manager.
621
00:29:53,420 --> 00:29:57,204
So you have another person doing product,
meaning that when you're in holiday, like, on
622
00:29:57,204 --> 00:30:01,605
holiday, like, not not everything stops, you
know, and then at some point, started doing
623
00:30:01,605 --> 00:30:02,484
more CO stuff.
624
00:30:02,484 --> 00:30:09,210
But I think the CO stuff really started around,
yeah, probably 50, once again, seventy five
625
00:30:09,210 --> 00:30:12,269
people when you start doing, a little bit more
of that stuff.
626
00:30:12,884 --> 00:30:16,724
And we're a company that we're massive
believers in execution.
627
00:30:16,724 --> 00:30:20,244
We always say, like, 10% strategy, 90%
execution.
628
00:30:20,244 --> 00:30:21,318
That's that's how we Will.
629
00:30:21,445 --> 00:30:24,390
You know, like, it's I think we have really
smart people.
630
00:30:24,390 --> 00:30:26,390
So getting to the what do we need to do?
631
00:30:26,390 --> 00:30:30,309
Usually, we can get there in, like, in, like,
15 minutes in a discussion.
632
00:30:30,309 --> 00:30:33,295
And then after that, we know there is of work
to actually make it happen.
633
00:30:33,295 --> 00:30:36,654
So we don't we don't spend too much time
discussing stuff too long, but then then we
634
00:30:36,654 --> 00:30:40,230
spend a lot of time just kinda like making sure
we're super precise in how we do it.
635
00:30:40,470 --> 00:30:47,349
Interestingly enough, I think we ran our 1st
true strategy exercise post acquisition by
636
00:30:47,349 --> 00:30:47,849
Hilti.
637
00:30:48,785 --> 00:30:54,945
That is the moment where, you know, I think we
I think it was in everybody's head, you know,
638
00:30:54,945 --> 00:30:59,500
like, and I think the key people knew this So
early on, everybody knows the strat because
639
00:30:59,500 --> 00:31:01,500
you're so small that everybody has perfect
context.
640
00:31:01,500 --> 00:31:05,903
And at some point, all the key people know the
strat, but there's not that many more Neagle.
641
00:31:05,980 --> 00:31:07,440
So it kinda spreads okay.
642
00:31:07,534 --> 00:31:12,095
But I think it's when you pass, like, a 100,
150 people that that you really need to nail
643
00:31:12,095 --> 00:31:16,980
the strat in a way that even the individual
person that is not exposed to it directly, gets
644
00:31:16,980 --> 00:31:17,460
it.
645
00:31:17,460 --> 00:31:20,680
But so that's the first time that we started
doing, like, yearly planning.
646
00:31:20,740 --> 00:31:25,299
I maybe we run 1, 1 yearly planning strat
before the acquisition and after that, it's
647
00:31:25,299 --> 00:31:28,634
been So, yeah, so we're we're growing slowly,
but we're trying hard.
648
00:31:28,634 --> 00:31:28,875
You know?
649
00:31:28,875 --> 00:31:29,115
So
650
00:31:30,554 --> 00:31:35,079
I I wouldn't I I wouldn't say growing slowly
would be a good, Okay.
651
00:31:35,079 --> 00:31:35,720
We're learning.
652
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:36,779
We're learning slowly.
653
00:31:36,919 --> 00:31:37,399
There we go.
654
00:31:37,399 --> 00:31:38,200
Going just fine.
655
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:38,279
Yeah.
656
00:31:38,279 --> 00:31:38,779
Yeah.
657
00:31:41,835 --> 00:31:42,494
Hey, everybody.
658
00:31:42,714 --> 00:31:43,615
Justin here.
659
00:31:43,755 --> 00:31:45,934
Thank you so much for listening to this
episode.
660
00:31:46,555 --> 00:31:51,160
As you know, Will and I are business nerds and
love talking to leaders who've scaled their
661
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,299
businesses using people, process, and
technology.
662
00:31:55,079 --> 00:31:59,384
If that's something that gets you all jazzed up
too, then do me a favor and hit the subscribe
663
00:31:59,384 --> 00:31:59,884
button.
664
00:32:00,265 --> 00:32:05,224
Don't forget to hit the little bell so you get
notified every time we drop a sweet new
665
00:32:05,224 --> 00:32:05,724
episode.
666
00:32:06,509 --> 00:32:10,929
And if you know somebody who'd be an awesome
guest on the show, send them our way.
667
00:32:10,990 --> 00:32:15,244
Just go to building scale.net slash guest.
668
00:32:16,184 --> 00:32:17,884
Now, back to the episode.
669
00:32:19,704 --> 00:32:24,389
So we talked you know, a good amount about
people and culture.
670
00:32:24,609 --> 00:32:30,609
And it seems like you're able to preserve
definitely a big piece of your culture,
671
00:32:30,609 --> 00:32:37,174
especially post transition now, and you've
alleviated some of those worries.
672
00:32:37,955 --> 00:32:45,869
So when you were first doing this, was culture
something that was really on top of your mind
673
00:32:46,684 --> 00:32:52,765
or did it become a thing when there were actual
serious talks about acquisition Foret something
674
00:32:52,765 --> 00:32:53,325
in between?
675
00:32:53,325 --> 00:32:53,484
No.
676
00:32:53,484 --> 00:32:53,724
No.
677
00:32:53,724 --> 00:32:56,035
I think culture was on our mind very, very
Neagle.
678
00:32:56,990 --> 00:33:03,890
So the the 3 core values, I think, a field wire
were craftsmanship, trust, and exploration.
679
00:33:04,349 --> 00:33:09,454
So craftsmanship was mean, obviously Craft
mentioned, I, you know, like, I think valve,
680
00:33:09,454 --> 00:33:13,375
like, the gaming company had released, like,
many years ago, like, they're they're hiring
681
00:33:13,375 --> 00:33:18,140
handbook in which talk about T shaped people,
meaning that everybody has a reason for being
682
00:33:18,140 --> 00:33:22,355
in the team because they have a very deep
knowledge somewhere, but but they have a
683
00:33:22,355 --> 00:33:25,154
horizontal knowledge that allows them to
participate with others.
684
00:33:25,154 --> 00:33:31,609
But so craftsmanship is about that deep
knowledge is that we believe in people just
685
00:33:31,609 --> 00:33:36,170
commenting to a craft and becoming extremely
good at it and and getting to a point where at
686
00:33:36,170 --> 00:33:39,575
field wire, we'd like to say that it's not a
question of whether something is possible.
687
00:33:39,575 --> 00:33:42,134
It's a question of how long is it gonna take us
to do it?
688
00:33:42,134 --> 00:33:46,809
And that's that's an amazing skill to have on
your team, like, because Foret some teams, some
689
00:33:46,809 --> 00:33:50,890
things, some projects are just out of reach,
you just don't have the Will set to make it
690
00:33:50,890 --> 00:33:51,210
happen.
691
00:33:51,210 --> 00:33:54,250
Like, most of the time when we wanna do
something, we can do it.
692
00:33:54,250 --> 00:33:55,384
We can figure it out.
693
00:33:55,464 --> 00:33:56,424
Question is like, okay.
694
00:33:56,424 --> 00:33:58,105
How much resources does that represent?
695
00:33:58,105 --> 00:34:00,345
How how long do we need to make it happen?
696
00:34:00,345 --> 00:34:02,125
So that's the craftsmanship part.
697
00:34:02,184 --> 00:34:07,390
The trust part Foret for us, it's Justin.
698
00:34:07,390 --> 00:34:11,170
Trust is not given it is earned, and usually it
comes from craftsmanship.
699
00:34:11,309 --> 00:34:16,054
And it it's like we're very trust based on any
Like, nobody is gonna come behind you to check
700
00:34:16,194 --> 00:34:18,914
whether what you said you were gonna do is done
or not.
701
00:34:18,914 --> 00:34:23,650
But then after that, you see the word splitting
in two groups of Neagle, the people that do
702
00:34:23,650 --> 00:34:26,070
what they say they're gonna do and the people
that don't.
703
00:34:26,210 --> 00:34:31,010
And the people that don't have a very hard time
at Field Will, because we're maybe we're a bit
704
00:34:31,010 --> 00:34:35,714
impatient on that kind of stuff, but, like, we
are a very, like, hard trust based
705
00:34:35,714 --> 00:34:36,214
organization.
706
00:34:36,355 --> 00:34:40,034
Like, the relationship that I have with my co
founders Foret, like, the key execs that have
707
00:34:40,034 --> 00:34:45,510
been with us for 6 to 8 years, I think we enjoy
working Will each other because everybody's so
708
00:34:45,510 --> 00:34:51,304
freaking reliable that we can have a chat and
they say, I got this, or you're taking that,
709
00:34:51,385 --> 00:34:52,905
and you know that it will happen.
710
00:34:52,905 --> 00:34:55,304
And, you know, like, those are the people you
wanna go to always.
711
00:34:55,304 --> 00:34:57,005
Like, they're they're awesome.
712
00:34:57,065 --> 00:35:01,289
And when stuff gets tough or when you're trying
to do really hard thing, it's gonna work.
713
00:35:01,449 --> 00:35:05,530
Because those guys will do it like 90 plus
percent, like high conversion people.
714
00:35:05,530 --> 00:35:06,890
So that's the trust part Foret me.
715
00:35:06,890 --> 00:35:08,829
Like, that part of the culture is essential.
716
00:35:09,144 --> 00:35:13,005
And the third part was exploration, it's it's
kind of back to that being bold.
717
00:35:13,144 --> 00:35:17,385
It's like, why are we here and not at just
like, I don't know, PG and E or something like
718
00:35:17,385 --> 00:35:17,885
that?
719
00:35:18,039 --> 00:35:22,280
It's because we wanna go to places where we've
not when people haven't been before, right?
720
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,159
We we're trying to do things in a way that's
different.
721
00:35:25,159 --> 00:35:29,785
You know, the way we started distributing field
wire was different, the the the the model of
722
00:35:29,785 --> 00:35:34,445
doing bottom up directly to Craftman in 2013
was unheard of.
723
00:35:34,585 --> 00:35:35,704
And and you know what?
724
00:35:35,704 --> 00:35:37,300
We were like, we know it's possible.
725
00:35:37,300 --> 00:35:39,619
It's just that nobody actually has actually
done it.
726
00:35:39,619 --> 00:35:40,119
Right?
727
00:35:40,260 --> 00:35:46,914
And we would go on job site back in, like, 2013
early, like, And people would throw us out of
728
00:35:46,914 --> 00:35:47,635
construction jobs.
729
00:35:47,635 --> 00:35:51,315
Like, they were like, you're crazy, a craftsman
and kinda barely use a pen.
730
00:35:51,315 --> 00:35:54,119
Like, they're not gonna be able to use a smart
It was like, oh my god.
731
00:35:54,119 --> 00:35:54,679
You're so wrong.
732
00:35:54,679 --> 00:35:55,880
Like, this this will happen.
733
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:57,219
Like, the writing is on the Will.
734
00:35:57,319 --> 00:35:59,639
Like, Justin whether you believe it or not.
735
00:35:59,639 --> 00:36:03,414
And so I think those those values were there
from the get go.
736
00:36:03,414 --> 00:36:09,130
And I think you type the top 50 people that
feel, feel Will like the people that I think we
737
00:36:09,130 --> 00:36:13,289
personally were involved in hiring, I think
that's the core that really believed in that
738
00:36:13,289 --> 00:36:13,769
same.
739
00:36:13,769 --> 00:36:17,545
Then what happens when your company grows a
bigger is that I think you still believe in
740
00:36:17,545 --> 00:36:21,785
those same values, but sometimes you start
seeing that there are moments in your
741
00:36:21,785 --> 00:36:27,269
organization when the behaviors don't reflect
the values that that you're supposedly all
742
00:36:27,269 --> 00:36:28,070
believing in.
743
00:36:28,070 --> 00:36:32,494
And so that's the moment where you need to
really write them down and reinforce them and
744
00:36:32,494 --> 00:36:37,535
and just make sure that that people can know
and understand the value and that it actually
745
00:36:37,535 --> 00:36:42,019
influences the behavior of the company even
when they're not spending all their time with
746
00:36:42,019 --> 00:36:42,099
you.
747
00:36:42,099 --> 00:36:44,019
And I think that's the part that was really
difficult.
748
00:36:44,019 --> 00:36:50,385
I think it's the part when you go from 50 to a
150 where How do you go from values that are
749
00:36:50,385 --> 00:36:54,945
learned by spending time together to values
that are just kinda like learn through other
750
00:36:54,945 --> 00:36:55,184
means?
751
00:36:55,184 --> 00:36:58,690
Like, you have to reinforce them in your hiring
process, like, in a formal way, right?
752
00:36:58,690 --> 00:37:03,969
You have to reinforce them in your evaluations
in a formal way, and you have to find forms to
753
00:37:03,969 --> 00:37:04,609
just spread them.
754
00:37:04,609 --> 00:37:05,809
So I think that's the hard part.
755
00:37:05,809 --> 00:37:10,954
I think we believe in the values from the get
go, when you scale, it can be hard to actually
756
00:37:11,355 --> 00:37:12,494
it's back to execution.
757
00:37:12,554 --> 00:37:14,655
How do you execute, like, your values?
758
00:37:15,119 --> 00:37:16,559
At the scale of an larger company.
759
00:37:16,559 --> 00:37:18,340
That's the that's the part that is really
challenging.
760
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:23,405
I don't know if we have entirely the answer,
but, but, yeah, we started doing it way more
761
00:37:23,405 --> 00:37:25,885
when when we started going past 100 employees.
762
00:37:25,885 --> 00:37:26,385
Yeah.
763
00:37:27,485 --> 00:37:27,985
K.
764
00:37:29,405 --> 00:37:29,985
So interesting.
765
00:37:30,844 --> 00:37:31,005
So
766
00:37:31,164 --> 00:37:35,329
It also makes me think of, the the Blackberry
versus iPhone.
767
00:37:35,389 --> 00:37:35,549
Right?
768
00:37:35,549 --> 00:37:38,210
Like, it is, like, nobody's gonna use a
touchscreen.
769
00:37:38,510 --> 00:37:40,049
Nobody's doing that.
770
00:37:40,269 --> 00:37:43,010
They want their buttons and they, like, double
down.
771
00:37:43,344 --> 00:37:46,864
On this concept until they then didn't double
down on it.
772
00:37:46,864 --> 00:37:50,565
And then obviously, the the history speaks for
itself.
773
00:37:50,625 --> 00:37:58,849
So being bold and being seeing what the future
is is is going to be, huge.
774
00:37:58,849 --> 00:37:59,090
So
775
00:37:59,329 --> 00:37:59,650
Yep.
776
00:37:59,650 --> 00:38:04,755
So speaking of future, Will don't we talk a
little bit about What do you see as the main
777
00:38:04,755 --> 00:38:07,335
thing that's broken in construction today?
778
00:38:08,994 --> 00:38:10,214
That's a good question.
779
00:38:12,609 --> 00:38:16,609
I was reading something interesting this
morning, and I think he was talking about
780
00:38:16,609 --> 00:38:19,329
sustainability in the market, in the
construction market.
781
00:38:19,329 --> 00:38:23,315
And then somebody said, like, being more
sustainable in the construction market.
782
00:38:23,315 --> 00:38:26,515
I think it was the founder of Fitwall and
Brandon Wallace.
783
00:38:26,515 --> 00:38:30,900
And he was saying, not only is it good, but it
is now profitable.
784
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:38,454
And he was saying, like, it needs to be said
because, you know, Neagle are passionate about
785
00:38:38,454 --> 00:38:42,934
about certain causes or certain problems in the
Will, and that can push the awareness or like
786
00:38:42,934 --> 00:38:45,619
the the world in that direction up to a certain
point.
787
00:38:45,619 --> 00:38:49,140
But if you really wanna make everybody
participate, I think it needs to be
788
00:38:49,140 --> 00:38:51,880
economically supported.
789
00:38:52,260 --> 00:38:56,664
Like, basically, if it becomes the right thing
to do even from a from an economic perspective,
790
00:38:56,664 --> 00:39:00,264
then suddenly the entire world is not doing it,
not just the people that believe in it.
791
00:39:00,264 --> 00:39:01,485
That's the beauty of capitalism.
792
00:39:01,869 --> 00:39:05,890
Is that you don't need to believe in something
if it's economically profitable.
793
00:39:06,430 --> 00:39:11,184
What what I think he's lagging in the industry
right now is the the business model in
794
00:39:11,184 --> 00:39:12,324
construct of construction.
795
00:39:12,385 --> 00:39:19,660
I think we've seen very little innovation in in
the nature of the contracts that are being
796
00:39:19,660 --> 00:39:20,160
signed.
797
00:39:20,219 --> 00:39:20,960
It's available.
798
00:39:21,420 --> 00:39:25,739
There are plenty of very modern contracts out
there, but I would say, do they represent the
799
00:39:25,739 --> 00:39:26,940
vast majority of the market?
800
00:39:26,940 --> 00:39:27,099
No.
801
00:39:27,099 --> 00:39:27,534
They on.
802
00:39:27,534 --> 00:39:30,594
The vast majority of the market is still hard
bid.
803
00:39:30,815 --> 00:39:35,614
I'm passing the risks down to to, like, the GC
and then the GC is passing the risk down to the
804
00:39:35,614 --> 00:39:36,114
subs.
805
00:39:36,619 --> 00:39:38,140
That's still how the market works.
806
00:39:38,140 --> 00:39:41,340
And what is the problem with that is that it
really doesn't encourage any sort of
807
00:39:41,340 --> 00:39:43,579
collaboration, you know, between the actors.
808
00:39:43,579 --> 00:39:46,155
Everybody's really trying to Justin their best.
809
00:39:46,315 --> 00:39:50,875
In isolation of the others because, you know,
there is there is no benefit for the people
810
00:39:50,875 --> 00:39:53,994
that have Justin risk them to, I don't know, be
ahead of time.
811
00:39:53,994 --> 00:39:58,670
I mean, look, If you take a general contractor
in the market, and I like I like to talk about
812
00:39:58,670 --> 00:40:02,269
GCs because they're a little bit at the at the
center, and I have a ton of friends that are
813
00:40:02,269 --> 00:40:07,934
just really good TCs around the around
California, and and one of them was explaining
814
00:40:07,934 --> 00:40:09,135
it to me one day.
815
00:40:09,135 --> 00:40:13,315
It was like, there is no benefit for me to be
ahead of time.
816
00:40:13,750 --> 00:40:14,969
Or to be under budget.
817
00:40:16,070 --> 00:40:19,289
You know, and and why, like, there is actually
a good rational.
818
00:40:19,349 --> 00:40:25,025
If you're ahead of time, your customer is going
to be like, well, I'm not ready to take over
819
00:40:25,025 --> 00:40:28,065
the facility Foret, like, you know, like, I
couldn't plan around that.
820
00:40:28,065 --> 00:40:32,849
If you're under budget and, like, let's say you
work with, like, like, a, like, a, like, a
821
00:40:32,849 --> 00:40:33,570
health care company.
822
00:40:33,570 --> 00:40:34,849
They're gonna be like, well, that sucks.
823
00:40:34,849 --> 00:40:36,309
I could have Will another floor.
824
00:40:36,769 --> 00:40:41,065
I could have I could have some some, you know,
some emergency rooms and build a more
825
00:40:41,065 --> 00:40:42,025
profitable structure.
826
00:40:42,025 --> 00:40:47,519
Like, so fundamentally, the incentives or the
industry are not yet geared towards towards,
827
00:40:47,519 --> 00:40:49,840
like, increased collaboration from a business
model perspective.
828
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:54,554
And so once again, I think that's why you see a
lot of evangelists in the industry, they're
829
00:40:54,554 --> 00:40:55,994
they're the one propelling us forward.
830
00:40:55,994 --> 00:41:00,795
They're the one spending energy to just pull
the industry Foret, but you're not seeing that
831
00:41:00,795 --> 00:41:04,889
massive adoption because Ultimately, the
business model is not creating the incentives
832
00:41:04,889 --> 00:41:05,289
for it.
833
00:41:05,289 --> 00:41:10,409
So right now, we still rely on the great
thinkers of the industry that people are just
834
00:41:10,409 --> 00:41:12,190
truly passionate about driving stuff.
835
00:41:12,315 --> 00:41:15,994
To drive us forward, but they're doing that,
like, by the strengths of their arms.
836
00:41:15,994 --> 00:41:18,394
Like, there there's no there's no underlying
support for it.
837
00:41:18,394 --> 00:41:21,380
So the one thing that I haven't seen progress
is the business model.
838
00:41:21,380 --> 00:41:23,079
That's that's my answer to your question.
839
00:41:23,699 --> 00:41:24,819
That's a great answer.
840
00:41:24,819 --> 00:41:30,425
We oh, every time we talk about, like, it's the
it's the craziest business to be in in
841
00:41:30,425 --> 00:41:30,925
construction.
842
00:41:31,065 --> 00:41:35,785
Like, it honestly doesn't make any sense, which
is also why we're super intrigued about it.
843
00:41:35,785 --> 00:41:40,779
I and there's something about the the Foret of,
like, these human beings are like growing it
844
00:41:40,779 --> 00:41:48,554
all out there on a thing that seems crazy, but
yet it so fundamental to society to continue
845
00:41:48,614 --> 00:41:48,934
on.
846
00:41:48,934 --> 00:41:51,275
Like, it's just, you know, it's just it's wild.
847
00:41:52,775 --> 00:41:58,159
I loved the perspective on where we're at now
and moving towards the future, towards the
848
00:41:58,159 --> 00:41:58,639
future.
849
00:41:58,639 --> 00:42:00,980
I loved how you put that perspective on there.
850
00:42:02,434 --> 00:42:11,780
I wanna make sure that when we're looking at
future, this business model the only thing that
851
00:42:11,780 --> 00:42:20,114
could be that could be really changed or fixed,
or is it, or is it more a symptom rather than
852
00:42:20,114 --> 00:42:22,183
the actual underlying issue.
853
00:42:22,183 --> 00:42:22,617
Right?
854
00:42:22,617 --> 00:42:32,069
So we see that happening everywhere Justin the
same way in what your company did, right?
855
00:42:32,069 --> 00:42:39,425
You the symptoms were everywhere, but you
changed a fundamental aspect you are changing a
856
00:42:39,425 --> 00:42:45,265
fundamental aspect to how construction business
is working because of the people at the bottom,
857
00:42:45,265 --> 00:42:46,405
not at the top.
858
00:42:48,929 --> 00:42:51,269
I think that's a and I think that's a great
point.
859
00:42:52,530 --> 00:42:57,684
Instruction companies for the vast majority of
them don't leave that long.
860
00:42:57,824 --> 00:43:01,844
Like, the I think the the average lifespan of a
construction company, I think you're talking
861
00:43:01,905 --> 00:43:03,585
maybe 40 years or something like that.
862
00:43:03,585 --> 00:43:05,444
That's the typical construction company.
863
00:43:05,699 --> 00:43:10,019
Rise grow very fast, grow very Justin Foret the
impulse of the original founders.
864
00:43:10,019 --> 00:43:15,045
Usually, they they found like either a market
niche or or something that they really can
865
00:43:15,045 --> 00:43:16,222
differentiate Will.
866
00:43:16,244 --> 00:43:18,105
They just go very, very, very fast.
867
00:43:18,244 --> 00:43:22,565
And then and then one day, like, they just
either they sell or they start just decreasing
868
00:43:22,565 --> 00:43:28,090
in or whatever, or maybe the opportunity goes
away and then that so, I mean, I think most
869
00:43:28,090 --> 00:43:30,650
companies, you know, will die one day.
870
00:43:30,650 --> 00:43:36,105
I mean, like, you see the seeing the the codex,
the Xerox of the Will, like, just like every
871
00:43:36,105 --> 00:43:38,184
company no matter how big apple will die one
day.
872
00:43:38,184 --> 00:43:39,545
Like, so, like, it will happen.
873
00:43:39,545 --> 00:43:44,699
But I think the the lifespan of company in the
construction market is is a lot shorter due to
874
00:43:44,699 --> 00:43:48,545
the fact that the vast majority of companies in
our market are not just that giant.
875
00:43:48,545 --> 00:43:54,625
Like, you see some lasting qualities to the
very big ones, but, but, but not everybody has
876
00:43:54,625 --> 00:43:55,125
that.
877
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:59,760
And I think that cycle will create this
opportunity that you're talking about to to
878
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:03,679
have one day somebody coming with like, I don't
know, a super vertically integrated business
879
00:44:03,679 --> 00:44:07,414
model, Like, what, who do you see like driving
the market right now?
880
00:44:07,414 --> 00:44:11,255
So the integrated MEP contractors, right?
881
00:44:11,255 --> 00:44:13,650
They do everything from mechanical combing.
882
00:44:13,710 --> 00:44:19,089
You those are usually the trade that used to
fight on-site in terms of who gets the space,
883
00:44:19,230 --> 00:44:23,010
like, under the ceiling to run their their
their cables or their pipes, whatever.
884
00:44:23,184 --> 00:44:26,385
And and and some some players came out, and
they're like, you know what?
885
00:44:26,385 --> 00:44:27,984
We're gonna design all three systems.
886
00:44:27,984 --> 00:44:30,304
We're gonna install all three systems for the
buildings.
887
00:44:30,304 --> 00:44:32,400
And a massively more effective process.
888
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:35,760
On top of it, the margins are really good if
you actually know what you're doing in that
889
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:36,239
space.
890
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:40,855
So that's an example of of of people
integrating either, like, just horizontally or
891
00:44:40,855 --> 00:44:43,195
vertically to just kinda like make the business
better.
892
00:44:43,494 --> 00:44:49,849
Historically, you have the big GCs that are
doing the the shell there themselves, like
893
00:44:49,849 --> 00:44:51,130
they're doing the steel in the concrete.
894
00:44:51,130 --> 00:44:53,449
Like, that's an example of massive vertical
integration.
895
00:44:53,449 --> 00:44:54,170
And why do they do it?
896
00:44:54,170 --> 00:44:55,289
Because it's profitable, right?
897
00:44:55,289 --> 00:44:58,275
Because it it's supported by the by the
business model.
898
00:44:58,275 --> 00:45:02,675
So I think that's where the innovation will
come from, and you mix that with the fact that
899
00:45:02,675 --> 00:45:05,155
the life cycle of companies pretty short in the
industry.
900
00:45:05,155 --> 00:45:08,660
I mean, in the scale of of decades or 100
years.
901
00:45:08,660 --> 00:45:10,599
And I think that's what will drive the
business.
902
00:45:10,820 --> 00:45:12,519
I mean, we've seen that with Fieldwire.
903
00:45:12,900 --> 00:45:18,905
And what I mean by that is when we used to go
visit Justin, that just didn't believe in what
904
00:45:18,905 --> 00:45:19,464
we were doing.
905
00:45:19,464 --> 00:45:20,744
Like, they were like, oh, you're crazy.
906
00:45:20,744 --> 00:45:26,239
Like, smartphones are never gonna happen and,
you know, that that's And and I remember I
907
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:29,599
think he was investors asking us, like, what do
you do if a customer doesn't wanna buy
908
00:45:29,599 --> 00:45:31,679
smartphones or tablets for their job sites?
909
00:45:31,679 --> 00:45:34,159
Like, our salespeople were like, I'm not sure
the customer wants to buy.
910
00:45:34,159 --> 00:45:39,425
And I was Don't waste time with a customer that
just doesn't believe, like, just work with the
911
00:45:39,425 --> 00:45:43,000
people that believe, they will will perform way
better.
912
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:45,019
We're gonna make those guys super profitable.
913
00:45:45,639 --> 00:45:48,119
And at one point, it's like the water bucket
carriers.
914
00:45:48,119 --> 00:45:52,655
Like, either either you wanna stay relevant and
you move over to kind of like a Justin more
915
00:45:52,655 --> 00:45:55,215
performant technology, either either you get
out of business.
916
00:45:55,215 --> 00:46:00,849
And so is we're not in the business of
convincing people that technology will happen.
917
00:46:00,989 --> 00:46:02,590
Like, some people believe some people don't.
918
00:46:02,590 --> 00:46:06,244
We're just in the business of selecting the one
that believe and just try to bring it to them.
919
00:46:06,325 --> 00:46:11,125
That's that's why that's why I I will never try
to convince somebody that that our stuff is
920
00:46:11,125 --> 00:46:11,365
better.
921
00:46:11,365 --> 00:46:13,704
If you don't believe, you don't believe, that's
go with me.
922
00:46:15,079 --> 00:46:19,500
That I start thinking about especially on the
technology side.
923
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:24,195
You know, we're talking about you know, you've
got, like, prefab stuff that happens.
924
00:46:24,195 --> 00:46:28,755
You got, 3 d printing stuff that's happening.
925
00:46:28,755 --> 00:46:34,230
You've got construction that is, there's
companies that are essentially like, I'm
926
00:46:34,230 --> 00:46:38,594
building you your structure and it unfolds and
it's like good to go.
927
00:46:38,594 --> 00:46:42,195
Like, you know, like, obviously, there's some
setup to that, but, like, we're building this
928
00:46:42,195 --> 00:46:46,119
in a factory because this is gonna be way more
efficient.
929
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:50,380
Like, this is like more manufacturing than
traditional construction.
930
00:46:51,720 --> 00:46:54,280
I I mean, we're obviously seeing more and more
of that.
931
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:59,304
Are you do you think that they're like, we're
gonna get to the point here and say the next 10
932
00:46:59,304 --> 00:47:01,945
years that it's like, yeah, you're getting a
good chunk of the market.
933
00:47:01,945 --> 00:47:06,210
It's just doing these kind of things in
comparison to the traditional type of,
934
00:47:06,530 --> 00:47:07,030
construction.
935
00:47:07,570 --> 00:47:07,809
Yeah.
936
00:47:07,809 --> 00:47:13,170
So I think prefab, I mean, prefab has been
going on for, like, 40 plus years, but it's
937
00:47:13,170 --> 00:47:17,594
been going on for a 100 years if you argue you
know, about when it actually started.
938
00:47:17,594 --> 00:47:20,974
But, like so prefab is awesome.
939
00:47:21,114 --> 00:47:27,849
I've always been a huge fan of prefab The
difficulty of prefab is that transportation is
940
00:47:27,849 --> 00:47:29,230
actually a limiting factor.
941
00:47:29,369 --> 00:47:36,635
So if you have a big plant that does prefab, it
only has a certain range around it.
942
00:47:36,635 --> 00:47:37,035
Mhmm.
943
00:47:37,035 --> 00:47:40,780
Where where it's still profitable to kinda like
Will in the plan and distribute it.
944
00:47:41,099 --> 00:47:45,099
And I think that's a hard lesson that, that,
that companies have learned is that there are
945
00:47:45,099 --> 00:47:46,619
physical limits to the pre 5 model.
946
00:47:46,619 --> 00:47:50,554
Like, you, you actually need to have a
significant volume prefab works great if you
947
00:47:50,554 --> 00:47:55,594
want, if you have a concentrated market demand
that is right next to your plan or just not too
948
00:47:55,594 --> 00:47:56,255
too far.
949
00:47:56,369 --> 00:47:59,970
The idea that you could have a pre fab plan in
the middle of the US and serve the entire
950
00:47:59,970 --> 00:48:01,970
market actually doesn't work quite as well.
951
00:48:01,970 --> 00:48:05,410
I mean, I'm not an expert of the market, but
from what I understand, that's the physical
952
00:48:05,410 --> 00:48:07,125
limit is limiting prefab.
953
00:48:07,125 --> 00:48:09,764
After that, I think prefab will happen more and
Foret.
954
00:48:09,764 --> 00:48:15,640
Like, you you look at California, for example,
super concentrated market, hyper expensive
955
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:20,140
residential, market, like prefab residential
units.
956
00:48:21,914 --> 00:48:22,795
I mean, it's working.
957
00:48:22,795 --> 00:48:26,574
Like, there are many companies that are doing
it and are doing successfully, right?
958
00:48:27,035 --> 00:48:31,295
After that, at the scale of the market, not
every project is a sync working well with that.
959
00:48:31,980 --> 00:48:35,920
You see I see robotics advancing.
960
00:48:37,579 --> 00:48:41,885
I think we're gonna we're gonna reach a point
where robotics is actually contributing like,
961
00:48:41,885 --> 00:48:43,405
just directly on job sites.
962
00:48:43,405 --> 00:48:48,284
I mean, like, I think we're if if I describe
the next 10 years, last 10 years of robotics, I
963
00:48:48,284 --> 00:48:54,099
think it was more of an experiment, it was more
of a Neagle trying to be part of the next the
964
00:48:54,099 --> 00:48:54,920
next wave.
965
00:48:55,059 --> 00:48:57,860
I think we're gonna see robotics con
contributing directly.
966
00:48:57,860 --> 00:49:00,684
Like, on on very, like, just interesting jobs.
967
00:49:00,684 --> 00:49:05,405
Like, you see, like, you know, like Will robots
and you see, like, just lay out robots.
968
00:49:05,405 --> 00:49:07,505
I think that's that's getting to a point of
maturity.
969
00:49:07,730 --> 00:49:14,230
And I think the biggest limiting factor there
is I'm dealing with a changing environment
970
00:49:14,260 --> 00:49:19,335
Justin how autonomously really is my robot able
to operate in that environment.
971
00:49:19,335 --> 00:49:21,994
And I think we're getting to a point where that
is getting solved.
972
00:49:22,739 --> 00:49:25,000
And so I think that's gonna be really, really
exciting.
973
00:49:25,460 --> 00:49:25,940
Yeah.
974
00:49:25,940 --> 00:49:29,699
So I and and by the way, like, I'm talking
about, like, the really cool new stuff.
975
00:49:29,699 --> 00:49:29,940
Yeah.
976
00:49:29,940 --> 00:49:35,295
If you take just like the the last gen, like,
just the stuff that Fieldwar is part of, I
977
00:49:35,295 --> 00:49:40,820
think the market is reaching a level of
maturity where, like, now you know who's good
978
00:49:40,820 --> 00:49:41,860
and who's not out there.
979
00:49:41,860 --> 00:49:43,780
Like, there's a lot of good solution out there.
980
00:49:43,780 --> 00:49:47,719
So to today, there's no excuse as a
construction company to use bad software.
981
00:49:47,835 --> 00:49:52,714
Like, there's enough good software out there
that you can just pick 1 and and just roll with
982
00:49:52,714 --> 00:49:53,114
it.
983
00:49:53,114 --> 00:49:57,134
And what's interesting is that that
consolidation is creating a solid foundation
984
00:49:57,199 --> 00:49:59,039
for that next wave to happen on top of it.
985
00:49:59,039 --> 00:49:59,280
Right?
986
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:05,485
So when you think about, like, just connecting
tools, driving ecosystem, like, that is that is
987
00:50:05,485 --> 00:50:09,405
going to be possible because I think the Foret
layer has been figured out.
988
00:50:09,405 --> 00:50:13,960
Like, the last tenure was really about figuring
it that that Foret layer, which is What do you
989
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:15,019
use in the field?
990
00:50:15,159 --> 00:50:16,760
How does it connect to the back office?
991
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:18,840
Like, do you have a solution that does both
sides?
992
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:19,079
Great.
993
00:50:19,079 --> 00:50:21,260
And now Will everything on top of that?
994
00:50:21,414 --> 00:50:23,594
That has been figured out in the last 10 years.
995
00:50:25,255 --> 00:50:32,269
Do you feel like there's still stigma around in
the market around being burned by software in
996
00:50:32,269 --> 00:50:32,930
the past?
997
00:50:34,989 --> 00:50:39,795
I mean, I think we're we're we're in an
industry that strives on stigma, know?
998
00:50:42,094 --> 00:50:43,934
So, yes, there is always stigma.
999
00:50:43,934 --> 00:50:45,074
There is always stories.
1000
00:50:45,614 --> 00:50:50,089
No, I think people are getting to a point are
getting to a point where where where they're
1001
00:50:50,089 --> 00:50:51,530
feeling a lot better about it.
1002
00:50:51,530 --> 00:50:58,144
The the problem I think is more that we're such
a hardcore market in that we always, we only
1003
00:50:58,144 --> 00:50:59,204
talk about the problems.
1004
00:50:59,585 --> 00:51:02,385
And that's Justin, that's just how we run our
sites.
1005
00:51:02,385 --> 00:51:04,570
That's how we run our companies and stuff like
that.
1006
00:51:04,570 --> 00:51:08,010
And so you hear 10 times more about the
problems than you hear about the good stuff.
1007
00:51:08,010 --> 00:51:13,954
Because to be honest, like, I go visit our
customers and you know, I see, like, how stoked
1008
00:51:13,954 --> 00:51:14,614
they are.
1009
00:51:14,835 --> 00:51:19,234
Like, so so sometimes I will go talk to the CIO
and he was like, oh, like, by the way, like,
1010
00:51:19,234 --> 00:51:22,619
one of our guys support and need this email
and, like, he's really unhappy about stuff.
1011
00:51:22,619 --> 00:51:24,619
And I was like, okay, we'll spend more time
with your team.
1012
00:51:24,619 --> 00:51:25,820
Let's go visit a site together.
1013
00:51:25,820 --> 00:51:29,695
And then we're gonna do the site and
everybody's singing praises about the software.
1014
00:51:29,914 --> 00:51:30,795
And I'm like, okay.
1015
00:51:30,795 --> 00:51:35,355
I think the problem is that we just love
highlighting the problem in the industry, and
1016
00:51:35,355 --> 00:51:37,530
and we don't know how to celebrate the wins.
1017
00:51:37,590 --> 00:51:40,389
That is just that's just the way the industry
is.
1018
00:51:40,389 --> 00:51:42,550
That's why I love it, and I hate it at the same
time.
1019
00:51:42,550 --> 00:51:47,734
You know, it's the it's you know, that that's
construction in a nutshell.
1020
00:51:47,795 --> 00:51:50,355
So, basically, I don't think the stigma is a
big problem.
1021
00:51:50,355 --> 00:51:53,954
I think people are are getting on board with
it, and and it's working quite well for
1022
00:51:53,954 --> 00:51:54,454
everyone.
1023
00:51:55,170 --> 00:51:57,170
That actually brings up a great point.
1024
00:51:57,170 --> 00:52:01,730
So other than just choosing field wire, which
should probably be your first answer, how do
1025
00:52:01,730 --> 00:52:05,764
you how does a co how does a GC or a sub to
software.
1026
00:52:05,764 --> 00:52:09,364
Like, how do you go and say, alright, there are
these many softwares.
1027
00:52:09,364 --> 00:52:10,804
I can look at, like, reviews.
1028
00:52:10,804 --> 00:52:13,099
I can get recommendations from other Neagle.
1029
00:52:13,125 --> 00:52:18,349
But, like, until I actually put my hands on it,
like, I don't know.
1030
00:52:18,349 --> 00:52:19,469
Like, I I just don't know.
1031
00:52:19,469 --> 00:52:22,269
So, like, you're obviously sitting on the other
side of this.
1032
00:52:22,269 --> 00:52:27,194
So you probably analyze how can I get people to
to like our software a lot?
1033
00:52:27,194 --> 00:52:33,440
So what what are steps if you are a GC or a sub
that needs to use no, they need to get their
1034
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:34,159
software game up.
1035
00:52:34,159 --> 00:52:36,260
What would you suggest them do?
1036
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:42,724
So, I mean, in in in general, I always
recommend to put your hands on the software.
1037
00:52:42,864 --> 00:52:43,824
And you know what?
1038
00:52:43,824 --> 00:52:48,864
Like, this is the generation we're we're in
right now where in general, if you have a
1039
00:52:48,864 --> 00:52:53,230
vendor that is not super open about letting you
test their software before you sign this for
1040
00:52:53,230 --> 00:52:57,275
your contract, I would be a little bit bothered
by that.
1041
00:52:57,355 --> 00:53:01,674
You know, there's probably a reason why they
don't want you to use their software a little
1042
00:53:01,674 --> 00:53:03,135
bit and compare it to another.
1043
00:53:03,434 --> 00:53:05,250
So I would be a little worried about that.
1044
00:53:05,250 --> 00:53:07,989
So in general, there's always a way to put your
hands on the software.
1045
00:53:08,449 --> 00:53:14,405
In general, and as I said earlier, like, I
don't like to convince people to to to buy a
1046
00:53:14,405 --> 00:53:16,324
software or like to buy Will or any software.
1047
00:53:16,324 --> 00:53:21,260
For that matter, I would rather help them think
about the purchase that they're gonna do.
1048
00:53:21,260 --> 00:53:24,639
And in general, I tell them there's probably 3
things you need to think about.
1049
00:53:25,420 --> 00:53:28,380
So the number one is is does it adopt?
1050
00:53:28,380 --> 00:53:28,619
Right?
1051
00:53:28,619 --> 00:53:36,654
I mean, Construction is is, you know, is a is a
manpower heavy type of industry.
1052
00:53:36,654 --> 00:53:42,190
Like, we have a lot of people, and If you have
to fight for every single user that is being
1053
00:53:42,190 --> 00:53:44,349
deployed in your organization, it's not gonna
work.
1054
00:53:44,349 --> 00:53:47,869
Like, maybe you can you're gonna do the Foret
10, then the first 50, and then you're gonna
1055
00:53:47,869 --> 00:53:51,074
run out of steam and basically your software
deployment is not gonna go well.
1056
00:53:51,074 --> 00:53:56,090
So I'm like, ultimately, if you're gonna buy
something, it's incredibly important that you
1057
00:53:56,090 --> 00:53:58,170
have a good confidence that it's gonna get
adopted.
1058
00:53:58,170 --> 00:54:02,409
And that's how the industry get burned is they
bought something that checked, you know, like
1059
00:54:02,409 --> 00:54:06,425
the it checked the checkbox but at the end of
the day, it's just nobody was using it.
1060
00:54:06,425 --> 00:54:07,864
So, like, now you've just lost your money.
1061
00:54:07,864 --> 00:54:10,264
Doesn't actually matter if the software could
work.
1062
00:54:10,264 --> 00:54:13,849
If people are not using it, you will have no
chance of ever getting to that point.
1063
00:54:13,849 --> 00:54:14,650
That's the first thing.
1064
00:54:14,650 --> 00:54:15,710
Does it get adopted?
1065
00:54:16,010 --> 00:54:17,950
The second one is does it scale?
1066
00:54:18,170 --> 00:54:26,324
And most companies, most customers that we see
have I could fairly white spectrum of projects
1067
00:54:26,385 --> 00:54:31,264
that will go from some pretty small one, even
like the giant companies, they do like 500 k
1068
00:54:31,264 --> 00:54:31,764
jobs.
1069
00:54:32,130 --> 00:54:35,010
But they also do a $1,000,000,000 job next to
that.
1070
00:54:35,010 --> 00:54:35,170
Right?
1071
00:54:35,170 --> 00:54:40,394
And so having a software that can span both
sides, be basically being, like, easy enough to
1072
00:54:40,394 --> 00:54:45,035
deploy on your small scale projects, but it's
robust enough to be able to, to take your big
1073
00:54:45,035 --> 00:54:45,775
scale projects.
1074
00:54:45,835 --> 00:54:48,175
There's only so many companies out there.
1075
00:54:48,559 --> 00:54:54,159
And once again, the only way you can you can
check that is is by seeing reference jobs.
1076
00:54:54,159 --> 00:54:58,115
Like, so when you work with a vendor, like, can
they point at $1,000,000,000 jobs?
1077
00:54:58,115 --> 00:54:59,795
Can they partner at smaller jobs?
1078
00:54:59,795 --> 00:55:03,075
I mean, actually, the smaller jobs, you can
probably test it yourself because it's not too
1079
00:55:03,075 --> 00:55:04,515
hard to imagine with a smaller job.
1080
00:55:04,515 --> 00:55:06,855
Like, how long does it take you to deploy a
small job?
1081
00:55:06,980 --> 00:55:10,099
And then you have to believe them when they
show you, like, the $1,000,000,000 job that
1082
00:55:10,099 --> 00:55:11,619
they actually did work on it.
1083
00:55:11,619 --> 00:55:13,380
So does it adopt?
1084
00:55:13,380 --> 00:55:14,099
Does it scale?
1085
00:55:14,099 --> 00:55:16,119
And the last one is does it deliver results?
1086
00:55:16,464 --> 00:55:19,905
It's like there's a lot of softwares that are
pre missing certain stuff.
1087
00:55:19,905 --> 00:55:22,144
Like at some point, are you, are you witnessing
it?
1088
00:55:22,144 --> 00:55:25,569
And the only way to witness it is you have to
just talk to people.
1089
00:55:25,710 --> 00:55:29,469
Ideally, if you've tried the software yourself,
if you're talking to your own employees, you
1090
00:55:29,469 --> 00:55:32,609
would be surprised how little sometimes people
talk to their own employees.
1091
00:55:33,484 --> 00:55:36,304
Half the time, that's what we do, which is go
to a customer's.
1092
00:55:36,924 --> 00:55:41,636
They have, I don't know, like, just 30 or 60,
like, people using field Will.
1093
00:55:41,644 --> 00:55:43,849
Like, that's started, like, locally somewhere.
1094
00:55:44,230 --> 00:55:46,710
And we say, okay, like, does it adopt?
1095
00:55:46,710 --> 00:55:49,589
Obviously, you didn't even try to push the
software and people are using it.
1096
00:55:49,589 --> 00:55:51,449
So I think we're pretty sure it adopts.
1097
00:55:51,825 --> 00:55:55,585
The second one is does it scale where we can
show you, like, reference customers.
1098
00:55:55,585 --> 00:56:01,030
I remember, like, a call that I was Will, I
think it was, a Canadian company, and they were
1099
00:56:01,030 --> 00:56:04,550
like, you know, we make, we make 200,000,000 a
year.
1100
00:56:04,550 --> 00:56:06,309
Like, we wanna make sure that you can take our
volume.
1101
00:56:06,309 --> 00:56:08,230
And we're like, do you know at least not in
Canada?
1102
00:56:08,230 --> 00:56:08,469
Yeah.
1103
00:56:08,469 --> 00:56:12,414
I mean, like, they're $3,540,000,000 companies
like, well, their company went on Fieldwire.
1104
00:56:12,414 --> 00:56:13,954
So I'm pretty sure we can take 200,000,000.
1105
00:56:14,574 --> 00:56:15,795
And you know what?
1106
00:56:16,014 --> 00:56:18,034
But that's that's confidence in the industry.
1107
00:56:18,094 --> 00:56:21,039
Like, the, like, the, the Canadians being super
nice.
1108
00:56:21,039 --> 00:56:22,079
Like, they were like, oh, sorry.
1109
00:56:22,079 --> 00:56:27,545
I asked the Justin, but, like, the you have
this is past performance in the industry.
1110
00:56:27,625 --> 00:56:29,065
Like, that's why the industry's thrive on.
1111
00:56:29,065 --> 00:56:31,224
Like, if you either you can show it or you
can't.
1112
00:56:31,224 --> 00:56:31,464
Right?
1113
00:56:31,464 --> 00:56:35,464
So and then after that, that person was, like,
completely confident and icing it end up being
1114
00:56:35,464 --> 00:56:36,239
a great deal.
1115
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:43,599
And and the last part is ROI, and half the time
what we do is we take C level people and we
1116
00:56:43,599 --> 00:56:46,224
say, those are the people at your company that
are using it.
1117
00:56:47,184 --> 00:56:48,485
Those are their phone numbers.
1118
00:56:48,625 --> 00:56:49,825
This is what they're saying.
1119
00:56:49,825 --> 00:56:51,684
This is the intensity of their usage.
1120
00:56:52,065 --> 00:56:53,105
Don't listen to us.
1121
00:56:53,105 --> 00:56:53,825
Listen to them.
1122
00:56:53,825 --> 00:56:54,889
Just go talk to them.
1123
00:56:54,889 --> 00:57:00,170
And if it works for like fifty plus people in
your company, it's not a hard stretch to
1124
00:57:00,170 --> 00:57:02,804
believe that it would work for 500 or 5000,
right?
1125
00:57:02,804 --> 00:57:09,089
And literally every large deployment we have,
that meeting happened when we're like, don't
1126
00:57:09,089 --> 00:57:10,565
Justin to us, listen to them.
1127
00:57:10,565 --> 00:57:14,119
Like, And, and then after that, like, that's,
that's where you kind of, like, tie the whole
1128
00:57:14,119 --> 00:57:15,000
three things together.
1129
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:19,480
But that framework is very basic, but I don't
think most companies are necessarily thinking
1130
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:24,235
about it, I think they're thinking about, okay,
what software am I trying to replace?
1131
00:57:24,775 --> 00:57:26,614
What usage am I looking for?
1132
00:57:26,614 --> 00:57:28,454
Like, does it work on Android devices?
1133
00:57:28,454 --> 00:57:30,119
I'm like, none of that really matters.
1134
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:34,519
Like, at the end of the day, that that that is
not why you will succeed or fail.
1135
00:57:34,519 --> 00:57:35,019
Right?
1136
00:57:35,559 --> 00:57:38,065
So anyway, that's a that's that's our
framework.
1137
00:57:38,224 --> 00:57:39,264
And it's, and it's worked well.
1138
00:57:39,264 --> 00:57:43,264
And in general, right now, I think field and
office has been figured out as we described.
1139
00:57:43,264 --> 00:57:45,664
I think, like, there's a lot of good software
to do that.
1140
00:57:45,664 --> 00:57:49,639
I mean, we started in the field, but we talk
about field Foret and job site management
1141
00:57:49,639 --> 00:57:54,199
software because we like to take the entire job
site from the field site all the way through
1142
00:57:54,199 --> 00:57:54,780
the trailer.
1143
00:57:54,974 --> 00:57:56,494
I think that's been figured out pretty well.
1144
00:57:56,494 --> 00:57:59,235
I mean, in general, you're gonna need a good
ERP.
1145
00:57:59,614 --> 00:58:02,675
I think the ERP space is still a little bit
weird in the industry.
1146
00:58:02,940 --> 00:58:06,619
You're gonna need a good, like, job site
management platform that just does everything
1147
00:58:06,619 --> 00:58:08,140
you need to do on the job site.
1148
00:58:08,140 --> 00:58:13,014
And then after that, honestly, you can run a
pretty big company with just those 2 softwares.
1149
00:58:13,315 --> 00:58:14,194
And, and you know what?
1150
00:58:14,194 --> 00:58:17,394
I feel like if you wanna add little stuff
around it, like, you can probably do it.
1151
00:58:17,394 --> 00:58:22,260
But at least at that point, you can pay people
and you can run your sites, which is this is
1152
00:58:22,260 --> 00:58:23,260
the job of construction, to be honest.
1153
00:58:23,260 --> 00:58:23,273
Alright.
1154
00:58:23,273 --> 00:58:23,800
You've been super
1155
00:58:27,380 --> 00:58:27,880
insightful.
1156
00:58:28,405 --> 00:58:34,085
I I'm pretty sure our listeners will take away
something out of what you've talked about, and
1157
00:58:34,085 --> 00:58:36,175
I think they'll love your French accent as
well.
1158
00:58:36,175 --> 00:58:43,019
So we got to we gotta wind down and go to our
last question.
1159
00:58:43,019 --> 00:58:46,835
Justin, You wanna give him our last question?
1160
00:58:47,054 --> 00:58:47,795
Yeah, absolutely.
1161
00:58:48,175 --> 00:58:54,594
So if you could go back 20 years, this 2003,
what would you tell yourself, Keith?
1162
00:58:56,170 --> 00:58:59,630
Actually, what were if you don't mind, what
were you doing in 2003?
1163
00:59:00,170 --> 00:59:01,150
Were you at Yucatan?
1164
00:59:01,609 --> 00:59:01,859
No.
1165
00:59:01,859 --> 00:59:02,359
2003.
1166
00:59:03,894 --> 00:59:04,135
No.
1167
00:59:04,135 --> 00:59:04,295
No.
1168
00:59:04,295 --> 00:59:10,534
I was just getting into I was just graduating
from I don't like the the tail end of high
1169
00:59:10,534 --> 00:59:15,170
school in France, school ends up at 18 and then
you do 2 or 3 years of what's called
1170
00:59:15,170 --> 00:59:17,750
preparatory classes, which is super hardcore
engineering.
1171
00:59:18,210 --> 00:59:21,344
And then you take a standardized test to go
into engineering school.
1172
00:59:21,344 --> 00:59:30,280
So I I just got in engineering school, and I
think I was finishing my military initial
1173
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:31,800
training because they take civilians.
1174
00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:36,599
And before they send you to the actual army
schools, they they give you a chance for 2
1175
00:59:36,599 --> 00:59:41,144
months to just, you know, get used to it a
little bit before they before they said it.
1176
00:59:41,144 --> 00:59:46,929
So I went to the elementary school that was, as
as probably, a pretty hardcore and, like, I
1177
00:59:46,929 --> 00:59:51,569
think they're also trying to preserve the the
military guys from seeing a bunch of a bunch of
1178
00:59:51,569 --> 00:59:55,269
civilians arrive with with no sense of of of
how stuff works.
1179
00:59:55,585 --> 00:59:55,904
Okay.
1180
00:59:55,904 --> 00:59:57,924
So why would I would why would I tell myself?
1181
00:59:58,625 --> 00:59:59,824
Why would I tell myself that?
1182
00:59:59,824 --> 01:00:01,125
That's an excellent question.
1183
01:00:01,505 --> 01:00:07,230
You know, it's a little bit weird because I
think that's something that that I have, and
1184
01:00:07,289 --> 01:00:11,690
and and I think I shared that with my my
cofounder is I don't have a lot of regrets.
1185
01:00:11,690 --> 01:00:13,309
Do I think I made a lot of mistake?
1186
01:00:13,454 --> 01:00:22,320
Probably, you know, but in the end, I think the
mistakes were part of the journey that just got
1187
01:00:22,320 --> 01:00:23,539
us to where we are.
1188
01:00:23,599 --> 01:00:27,920
And, you know, I'm pretty sure that even if I
change the mistake part of it, I'm not sure we
1189
01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:33,704
still get here, you know, I I remember, like,
when I joined Ubisoft after Stanford, like and
1190
01:00:33,704 --> 01:00:40,329
it's funny because, one of my friend, he's
working, is working for, for a construction VC
1191
01:00:40,329 --> 01:00:41,869
and we're, we're chatting recently.
1192
01:00:42,250 --> 01:00:46,569
And he told me, like, yeah, when, when you went
into gaming after construction, everybody was
1193
01:00:46,569 --> 01:00:48,285
like, what is this guy doing?
1194
01:00:48,285 --> 01:00:50,125
You know, it just doesn't make any sense.
1195
01:00:50,125 --> 01:00:55,005
And you and you fast forward, I didn't have a
plan to go back to construction with what I
1196
01:00:55,005 --> 01:00:57,659
learned in gaming, but had I not gone into
gaming?
1197
01:00:57,659 --> 01:00:59,760
I never would have been able to create Will
wire.
1198
01:01:00,059 --> 01:01:01,199
And then you know what?
1199
01:01:01,340 --> 01:01:06,815
I probably had zero idea of what was ahead of
us when I started Field Will.
1200
01:01:06,815 --> 01:01:09,694
I probably, you know, actually, I think I did.
1201
01:01:09,694 --> 01:01:13,460
I think I had done some, some projections of
how fast we were gonna grow.
1202
01:01:13,599 --> 01:01:18,079
And, you know, like, our roadmap, like, in,
like, in 2 years where we're gonna go and we
1203
01:01:18,079 --> 01:01:22,454
started Will art, it took us 10 years to get to
get what I saw was gonna take, like, a few
1204
01:01:22,454 --> 01:01:22,954
years.
1205
01:01:23,094 --> 01:01:23,974
But had I known?
1206
01:01:23,974 --> 01:01:26,934
I'm not sure I would have done it because I
would be like, oh, it's gonna be too long.
1207
01:01:26,934 --> 01:01:27,175
Right?
1208
01:01:27,175 --> 01:01:34,599
So And the short version is, I think being a
little bit, like ignorant of some of the risk
1209
01:01:34,739 --> 01:01:39,514
is what also allows you to to take those risks
because you just you just don't think about it.
1210
01:01:39,514 --> 01:01:41,215
So, I mean, I would say, like, stay
adventurous.
1211
01:01:41,755 --> 01:01:43,594
Just whatever happens, it's gonna be okay.
1212
01:01:43,594 --> 01:01:46,010
Actually, I'm known at field saying it's
simple.
1213
01:01:46,010 --> 01:01:47,869
Every time somebody brings me a problem.
1214
01:01:48,170 --> 01:01:49,289
And it's not simple.
1215
01:01:49,289 --> 01:01:52,730
I realize it's not simple, but there's, like,
no points in dwelling over the complexity of
1216
01:01:52,730 --> 01:01:53,150
the Will.
1217
01:01:53,364 --> 01:01:54,744
Justin what can we do about it?
1218
01:01:54,744 --> 01:01:56,525
Let's do that and let's see what happens.
1219
01:01:56,824 --> 01:01:59,804
So so that's that's, yeah, I wouldn't change
anything.
1220
01:02:00,505 --> 01:02:03,789
I'm sure I'm sure I could have done a lot stuff
better, but you know what?
1221
01:02:03,789 --> 01:02:05,949
I didn't know what I know now back then.
1222
01:02:05,949 --> 01:02:06,190
So
1223
01:02:06,989 --> 01:02:07,489
Yeah.
1224
01:02:07,670 --> 01:02:08,750
It's simple.
1225
01:02:08,750 --> 01:02:09,469
It's simple.
1226
01:02:09,469 --> 01:02:10,130
It's simple.
1227
01:02:10,190 --> 01:02:10,690
Okay.
1228
01:02:12,094 --> 01:02:12,574
It's awesome.
1229
01:02:12,574 --> 01:02:13,074
Exactly.
1230
01:02:14,094 --> 01:02:21,429
We will throw in all of the field wire and your
social, media stuff into the show notes, is if
1231
01:02:21,429 --> 01:02:23,929
somebody wanna get ahold of you, is there a way
they could do that?
1232
01:02:24,550 --> 01:02:24,710
Yeah.
1233
01:02:24,710 --> 01:02:28,605
I mean, like, super easy to reach, like, Eve, y
v e s, atfieldwire.com.
1234
01:02:29,385 --> 01:02:31,005
That's my that's my work email.
1235
01:02:31,385 --> 01:02:33,065
I'm pretty responsive on it.
1236
01:02:33,065 --> 01:02:35,644
And otherwise, like fieldwire.com is is our
website.
1237
01:02:35,704 --> 01:02:39,599
So know, if you have questions, don't hesitate
to connect on LinkedIn.
1238
01:02:39,599 --> 01:02:42,500
My my rule is if you work in construction, I
say yes.
1239
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:45,384
If you don't, I do not say yes.
1240
01:02:45,525 --> 01:02:47,605
So so that's the that's the way.
1241
01:02:47,605 --> 01:02:52,360
If I don't know you, otherwise like it, so but
I say yes, whether you're a craftsman, or like
1242
01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:53,320
a company CEO.
1243
01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:58,119
If you work in the industry, you're you're very
welcome, to be a contact and and in general, I
1244
01:02:58,119 --> 01:02:59,019
try to be helpful.
1245
01:02:59,635 --> 01:03:00,035
Awesome.
1246
01:03:00,035 --> 01:03:00,355
Awesome.
1247
01:03:00,355 --> 01:03:00,755
Awesome.
1248
01:03:00,755 --> 01:03:00,994
Awesome.
1249
01:03:00,994 --> 01:03:01,474
Thank you.
1250
01:03:01,474 --> 01:03:06,035
Oh, yes, you've been amazing, and, we learned a
lot.
1251
01:03:06,035 --> 01:03:07,735
So hopefully our listeners did as Will.
1252
01:03:07,795 --> 01:03:09,015
And until next time,
1253
01:03:09,369 --> 01:03:09,690
Audio.
1254
01:03:09,690 --> 01:03:10,190
Audio's.
1255
01:03:10,889 --> 01:03:12,109
I appreciate it, guys.
1256
01:03:12,889 --> 01:03:18,144
Thanks for listening to building scale to help
us reach even more people Please share this
1257
01:03:18,144 --> 01:03:21,364
episode with a friend, colleague, or on social
media.
1258
01:03:21,744 --> 01:03:26,969
Remember, the 3 pillars of scaling a business
are Neagle, process, and technology.
1259
01:03:27,910 --> 01:03:34,090
And our mission is to help the AEC Industry
protect Neagle by making technology easy.
1260
01:03:34,795 --> 01:03:39,755
So if you think your company's technology
pillar could use some improvement, book a call
1261
01:03:39,755 --> 01:03:44,670
with us to see how we can help maximize your IT
cybersecurity strategy.
1262
01:03:45,210 --> 01:03:47,550
This go to building scale.net/help.
1263
01:03:50,809 --> 01:03:52,349
And until next time,
1264
01:03:53,065 --> 01:03:54,664
Key Building scale.
1265
01:03:54,914 --> 01:03:55,414
Scale.
