Akshay: Questions we had written pele. ⁓ so we can and if you want to add something, some Sutch. ⁓ and I was also thinking for this episode or whenever we have a guest, we should put up like one clip pre-the episode comes out, also. Huh? Like as a huh, yeah.
Ananya: Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of the Breakdown Besties Podcast. I'm Ananya. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Akshay: Yeah, that's too good, yeah.
Ananya: Yeah, I really enjoyed all the songs. Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. Like for a change I didn't forward them. You know, like fully Yeah, fully sat through them. And again, like the songs are also ensued with so much character which like really like makes you want to watch them. set.
Ananya: And we are your breakdown besties. Together, we have more than 14 years of experience writing for shows like Mismatch, Wedding.com, Ishkin the Air, Rana Naidu, Grahan, Inside Edge, and a host of others that have gotten stuck in development hell, but will hopefully see the light of day one day. With the Breakdown Besties podcast, Hmm. Yeah, I was waiting for them. Yeah. ⁓ for sure. Yeah. Yeah, we will have to hire someone I'm telling you at some point. We are going to go mad. Because our ambitions are very big. Yeah. Yeah, I was thinking let's do a product and bring some revenue in before like I don't mind paying for it now. Like that's not a problem. Yeah, yeah. And just bringing all the industry faces and everything.
Akshay: Yeah, we will have to. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's so much fan service at the same time, like also ⁓ like giving yourself like a pat on the back, like, ⁓ you
Ananya: Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. We can look start looking, ⁓ I have no problem. ⁓ b if we want to hire we can.
Ananya: Yeah, exactly,
Akshay: Huh. Huh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: Great. Cool. ⁓ But if the revenue stream is little small, that also like we have a small audience. So we have to figure out what revenue stream will like pay for things and so we'll brainstorm that also with Jen. Like in terms of, you know, what is our goal? Like we don't want to make money for the sake of making money, right? That is currently not our goal with this. Our goal is to recoup our expenses and now it would be to hire someone. Do you want to just see the next scene you have?
Akshay: Yeah. Okay. ⁓ I wanna talk about the technique of putting Easter eggs in your film. Especially when it's a period film or a film which has the audience world really aware w or especially where the wor especially where the audience is really aware of the world. You know, so like a famous incident which has happened or something like that. Fair. Yeah. Yeah. Hm. Huh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: Yeah
Akshay: And so you try and put like small, small clues throughout the film, or just like fun trivia sort of things, just so that you know your audience can feel like, ⁓ hey, this happened, you know, just like just like ⁓ it's almost like like a small happy bubble which you get. Like, ⁓ like see they did this, or like they told us something interesting. So ⁓ stuff like you know Suraj Barjatiya outside listening, saying ki Yeah, correct.
Ananya: And then we'll have to discuss scope of hiring them. Like, you know, so like, what do we want to do? And then and then if you're hiring someone, then it should be for I think visual creatives, right? Essentially. So Instagram reels and the thumbnails and stuff, especially if you're going to up the thumbnails and
Akshay: Huh. Yeah, yeah.
Ananya: Hmm. Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: Yeah. Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. Like full social media they can be able to take care of. Pyaar mein no sorry, no thank you. And he's like making notes of this. Or ⁓ you know, in the opening time when he's like, I'm going Govinda Ahuja from Virar, and then they take out Ahuja out of your name. So just like so you sort of understand a little bit more about this world, but at the same time, just like small nuggets so that people can be like, ⁓ this is a very real film at the same time. It doesn't feel like just make-believe. ⁓
Ananya: Exactly and SEO like the descriptions, captions like all of that. Yeah. Yeah.
Akshay: Huh. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Essentially. Huh. Correct. Yeah. Like even I would I wouldn't mind offloading the uploading duty also to them. Like of all these creatives. Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: Yeah... Aww... Yeah, yeah, creatives. yeah. Exactly. Exactly. It should have to be an intern. Intern Shala types. Well, yeah. Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah.
Ananya: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. I remember like Mrs. Maisel used to do a lot of these drop ins of like dialogue like, ⁓ are you like taking like ⁓ the vaccine from salk or just, you know, ⁓ like that, which you almost just feel like such periodic detail is like good detail.
Ananya: and
Akshay: Because essentially we have three reels a week right now, you know. ⁓ three reels a week. ⁓ and I think four videos you put out, you know, like our YouTube videos, I think. Three are four. Like huh. So because SEO was saying captions me. So that's what they'll be doing. and we can also
Ananya: Yeah. Yeah, For sure. The funniest one was the darkest one in Maisel, I remember, was that... Here, this is a card for my therapist. My friend Sylvia Plath went to her. ⁓
Akshay: I remember this, yeah. think about broadening the scope to like them editing the podcast also and putting the clips also. You know? But I think I feel like maybe like if we can get one person to do starting maintenance ⁓ broaden ho sakta heads, you know? Huh.
Ananya: ⁓ Yeah. ⁓ absolutely. Hmm. Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. So I think this film is full of that. A lot of them. I'm pretty sure I don't know a lot of them. ⁓ but ⁓ it's like good whatever I could guess and identify was really cool.
Ananya: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. And immediately though, we won't find the right fit. We'll have to cycle through a few people. Yeah,
Akshay: Yeah. ⁓ now j I just remember one more when ⁓ she says no ⁓ prakash's mom that ⁓ just yeah. And she still hasn't found so she now edits herself. She's like, I'm full-time, so I can do it now. And I feel she said it's You know, like because like like like they would take her to through like the ⁓
Ananya: yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah another Hmm. Yeah.
Akshay: ⁓ Go on, go on.
Ananya: Another technique I wanted to talk about is the rule of three combined with a mini arc. So essentially we spoke about a rule of three where if you want to emphasize something, you say it three times, right? Because it builds recall value and with each time it should be building. In this film, they've taken that a step further by creating a mini arc out of it, which has proper consequences. For example, first you have the bit where you're at the award show. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Akshay: Software, he see I tried to do this but this wasn't happening, which you were telling me, blah blah blah blah blah. So she was like, Okay, now I understood to take care. And she's like, Now because I'm full time into this, so I don't mind, you know.
Ananya: Hmmmm Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's good.
Akshay: Yeah. Good egg.
Ananya: a different thing.
Akshay: But also like her concepts are also like more un like more universal. Like more people might be interested to like save money, you know, like it's money. So yeah. Because she's also not been able to launch her offer yet. ⁓ because for ⁓ she needs to get the SEBI registration thing and st all that. Yeah. So but she's also not not sure what to put out. So she's also brainstorming an offer only, Abby.
Ananya: And Rajesh Kapoor is being interviewed and they're like, good news kabhi milega, good news kabhi milega. And he's just like, arey, I'm going to win best actor award. And his wife is like, no you idiot, they're asking about the baby. They're like, haan haan wo bhi jaldhi milega. ⁓ Then you go to outside of Rajesh Kapoor's house, where the awards are, after the awards. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly, exactly, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I'll be... huh... huh... huh... this is more complex, Thank Shah Rukh Khan is saying that one day I will live in this house and you know like, kharid lunga jabhi mai superstar ban jaunga and all of that. And then finally you have the closing of the arc when Shah Rukh Khan is blasted out of the burning studio lot and he ends up in front of Rajesh Kapoor's car as he is driving his wife to the hospital because she's in labour to give birth. So what starts off as a joke Right, yeah. Yeah, that is... But I'm still feeling good about that private podcast idea. Like, excitement hasn't gone. So, yeah.
Akshay: Yeah, same. I'm also feeling very good. Yeah, correct. Correct. And also like you know how like YouTube has a members only thing? So it's a it's a version of that. So it's a version of that, right? Like that doing a private podcast where full revenue just can come to us. Yeah. Sure. Huh, yeah.
Ananya: Yeah, yeah, but they take 30 % yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. also ends up having such consequences overall for the film, major consequences. But even in minor consequences, they've done it with the Manoj Kumar bit where this Shreyas Talpade steals Manoj Kumar's tickets for the movie premiere. Then you have a cut of Manoj Kumar trying to convince the guards ki bhai main Manoj Kumar hu, mera driving license dekh. And then finally they get pulled out of the premiere Exactly, exactly. We'll have some platform fee somewhere, wherever it is. But yeah, it still won't be as high as 30%. 30 % is insane. So yeah, we'll see. We'll see. We'll figure out the whole funnel, the landing page.
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Insane. ⁓ Yeah.
Ananya: because of not being recognized as not Manoj Kumar, they were imposters. So even there, what started off as a gag has full arcs and consequences. It's an act one, act two, act three, a beginning, middle and end to it. So it is very well done. Even with Shanti Priya's ghost in the second half. It is first that the portrait catches on fire even though the electricals aren't working. The second is that a part of the Jhumar falls off of... Uhhh...
Akshay: Yeah.
Ananya: 905 okay ⁓
Akshay: Let us do.
Ananya: Okay.
Akshay: And yeah.
Ananya: Okay.
Akshay: Yeah. ⁓ but muting everything. Huh huh.
Ananya: Ready? Cool. Okay. Hello everyone and welcome to episode number 25 of the Breakdown Besties podcast. I'm Ananya. breaks or something happens during the music launch. And then finally she reveals herself and the Jhumar comes down. This doesn't have an act one, act two, act three. This is simply escalation. But it is again a rule of three being used. So very well.
Akshay: Hmm. I'm Akshay.
Ananya: And we are your Breakdown Besties. Combined, we have more than 14 years of experience writing for shows like Mismatched, Wedding.con, Rana Naidu, Inside Edge, Grahan and a host of others that have gotten stuck in development hell but will hopefully see the light of day one day. With the Breakdown Besties podcast, our goal is to give you an authentic film school experience right from the comfort of your home.
Akshay: Yeah. That's great. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like the I feel like the rule of three comes into play when you're having a mini arc. Like in the space of it's like beginning, middle, end. Like that's the key. Like you know, each of those moments have to escalate a little bit in the story and so that you have like a good conclusion to the arc. Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: Hmm. where what we do is look at the screenwriting techniques used in our most iconic Bollywood films and break them down, see what makes them work and how can we emulate them and recreate them to make our own scripts and films iconic. And this is episode number 25. ⁓ Oh my ⁓ One year ago, Akshay and I were like brainstorming. Okay, what should we do? Like we want to do something creative outside of like... Yeah. Exactly,
Akshay: ⁓ go on go on. Okay. I wanna talk about ⁓ a mirror scene. ⁓ The technique of a mirror scene. You do that. A mirror scene is when a character is put in one situation and in this in later part of the movie where the same situation the character is put in again.
Ananya: Hmm.
Akshay: Ha ha.
Ananya: writing shows and doing something that actually gives back to the film community and wow one year later we actually made it happen yeah
Akshay: What a ride. Yeah. What a ride. Like I remember the previous episode we uploaded, like, ⁓ we have these many subscribers who are watching. But by the time we uploaded them, I'm like, ⁓ we've already increased our subscription. Yeah. ⁓ so that's pretty cool that everybody's like on this journey with us. Or somebody else around the character is put in that situation and you know how they differently react. The reason you do this is because to show how the rel ⁓ The reason you do this is to show what sort of progression our character has gone through, what is the arc they are on. one mirror scene which comes clearly to my mind, and I think to the audience and to the characters themselves is the speech scene where
Ananya: Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, 50 subscribers more, yeah! Nice. Hmm. Absolutely. Thank you so much for coming on this journey with us. ⁓ honestly, the podcast exists because y'all make it exist. Otherwise we would be talking into the void, which we do. But anyway, it's called having imaginary sense. exactly. Cool. Hmm.
Akshay: Sharuk Khan's character in the first half, Om Prakash Makija, imagines what it would be to like a win a Filmfare Award and he stages this full speech. And in the second half of the film where he's born as a superstar, Om Kapoor, he actually does win an Filmfare Award for Best Actor. And he gives the same speech again. Which is like now his consciousness is coming back to like or like he's trying to recall memories happening for him. ⁓ so I thought that was a great technique they used. Yeah. Yeah. It's in our rooms in private.
Ananya: Hmm. Yeah. And because this is our 25th episode, we wanted to do a film which is very close to the hearts of everyone, which is undeniable. So it had to be, Om Shanti Om. Written by Mushtaq Sheikh, Farah Khan and Mayur Puri. ⁓ Oh my God, I had so much fun watching it. Hmm.
Akshay: And very obviously called it out like this is a mirror. This is a mirror of his past life.
Ananya: Yeah, yeah, Hmm. Absolutely. And to add to that, One mirror scene is when, which shows like character growth is when he is Om Kapoor and he's doing the film with the Gujarati father son duo. And in the start, he's... ⁓ that's Mayur.
Akshay: What a joyride this movie was. You know, like I remember very clearly watching the movie back in the time. And I remember like it used to come a lot in like on television. And it used to be I remember we had that time where we had those five in one DVDs, you know, pirated movies back in the day. And my cousin, he knew the film were bat him line by line. Not just of like say Sharukh or like somebody, but every background extras line he knew.
Ananya: Yeah.
Akshay: ⁓
Ananya: Mm-hmm.
Akshay: You know, that's my own. You
Ananya: Uhhh...
Akshay: The director is the Mayod the junior boy, the actual director. Yeah.
Ananya: I love it, I love it. ⁓ I love it, I love it. Okay, great. So Shah SRK over there, just like, I just give one take, you know, and then he changes everything for his, you know, ⁓ He's like, no, no, we have to do a song, make it dard e disco, all of that. Wow.
Akshay: Like so and I get it, like these are like it was a really fun film. So yeah.
Ananya: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The dialogues are iconic. Everything is iconic about it. And more than anything, I feel like they must have had so much fun creating the film. Like, there's that energy which is infused with, sabko maza aaya.
Akshay: Yeah.
Ananya: And then later you have a mirror scene. Once he's realized that he was actually Om Prakash Makija, he was a struggling artist and he should really value who he is and what privileges he has in this life. He does, he goes back to that set and he does that disabled person ⁓ And he just says that, he also says that, you know, I think I could do better. Let's do one more take. And that shows growth. So ⁓ situations, but different reactions.
Akshay: I think it's mad props to like Farah Khan for doing this. Because even in the interviews I see of hers, she says that you know what I did? I just went to the filmfare awards, the real one, and just put my camera there. You know? ⁓ And I'm like, You got away this because you're Farah Khan, right? Like it's amazing. Like how she used her position in such a good way. ⁓
Ananya: Yeah. Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally.
Ananya: I can't, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, and being a likeable, fun person just takes you places, dude. Like, you don't need to be the best at your craft or anything. Like, you just need to be a good person. Yeah. Then I want to talk about coincidence, which is what we chatted about briefly, which is where coincidences are something we don't allow in films. Coincidences are too convenient. They make things easy for your characters. And the whole point of a story engine is conflict and ease is the opposite of conflict. So you can't have that within your films. But we allow coincidences.
Akshay: Yeah. Seriously. Yeah. Yeah. And this movie to craft is also top notch.
Ananya: ⁓ god, it's so tight. Everything is so tight. I'm just like, ⁓ no, nothing really wasted.
Akshay: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally.
Ananya: only and only when under one exception they make things worse for your character and over here the coincidence is that Shahrukh Khan happens to be there when Arjun Rampal is plotting Deepika Padukone's death and he overhears everything but we allow that because that results ultimately in Shahrukh Khan's death that coincidence makes it Great. without further ado, though we have done about 10 minutes of ado, let us get into the logline of the film. Okay. So what is your logline? Your logline is your film's guiding light. When you're writing your script and you're on page number 56 and you're writing a scene or a dialogue and you're confused, like, why is this even in the script? Why did I put it in here?
Akshay: Hm.
Ananya: worse for your character. So it's okay to be there. And also while it is a coincidence, yes, that because the studio lot is so big and that they happen to be on the same like sound studio, it is also within the world of the film. Like you have to contain your characters to these spaces, right? To keep it tonally correct, like tonally relevant and relevant to the world. So there is a minor coincidence there in the fact that they happen to be on the same like soundstage. How does contribute to the overall film? Your logline is going to tell you how it contributes. Why? Because it captures the essence of your film. There are four main components which every film needs to have in order to be successful commercially, in order to be successful as a narrative and a story. And when you whittle it down to these four elements, you are able to capture the essence of it and keep writing with
Akshay: Yeah. ⁓ ⁓
Ananya: But the fact that they're both in the studio lot, not as much. these four elements driving every scene, every piece of dialogue, every sequence and your logline captures them. What are these four elements? The first is your need or flaw, block or wound. Now this is something within the character that is stopping them. That is from achieving element number two, which is their goal. Your goal is
Akshay: Yeah, totally, totally. And I think that's the that's also the genre of the movie, right? Like you like it's a little bit about the secrets of these people and like you have to like stage these scenes a certain way because that's what the genre is, essentially. Yeah.
Ananya: Hmm. Yeah Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I'm pretty sure.
Akshay: My notes are also all over the place today.
Ananya: The whole reason we as an audience are going on this journey with you, we want to see you achieve something, go after something. So that is your film, your goal. Number three is your conflict. Your conflict is your story engine. It is an external manifestation of your internal need, want, flaw, block or wound. If your internal flaw, for example, is a coward, then the conflict that you're going to face is facing a lion No. I have three more scenes to talk about.
Akshay: Can't like you. Mm, chica, sí, mm. ⁓
Ananya: Okay, next I want to talk about the planning sequence. Over here I want to talk about two different ways in which it's done. The first is ⁓ you reveal what the plan is only for the plan to fail, right? So over here it is when they are explaining to ⁓ so that you can overcome your cowardice. And this conflict keeps driving your story because you want to see how your main character is going to come out on the other side braver, stronger, more evolved. And finally, you have stakes. Stakes are what your character will lose should they not achieve their goal. It's not simply not achieving their goal, it is taking it one level lower. All right, great. second. I want to talk about planning as a technique because in many movies we see plans being made and or plans not being made and how that is used to create tension, drama etc in the audience's mind. Over here I have noted two different planning sequences. One is when you are told the plan and the reason you are told the plan is because something is going to go wrong in the plan or during the plan. You told the plan so that the plan can fail. So I'll read out my logline of Om Shanti Om to you. A man who was killed trying to save the love of his life wants to avenge the death of his lover when he is reincarnated and recalls the truth. It is done so that it creates conflict. You know what's going to happen and can be like, ⁓ no, this is going wrong. This is when they are shooting in the studio lot in the second half with Arjun Rampal's character. And over there, Shah Rukh Khan says that, okay, Dolly is going to send a text and Arjun Rampal will go to her dressing room. And over there, Sandhya will be waiting for him as Shanti Priya. Now, as this plan is in motion,
Akshay: Yeah. Perfect. Yeah.
Ananya: Yeah. Great. I'll capture the four elements.
Akshay: I also had a very similar version. I just put maybe like adjectives like struggling artist is reborn, stuff like that. You know, that's what I did. Yeah.
Ananya: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That gives you a good sense of the world. fact, struggling artists, all of that, yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. Huh. Like reborn reincarnated as superstar. That's what like stuff like this. Yeah.
Ananya: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, ⁓ first you have the need or the limitation in this case, which is a man who was killed trying to save his love. Right? That is long, but that is his ⁓ limitation. Yeah, that's what he comes with. And that is going to stop him every step of the way. Right? That is like... ⁓ you see Dolly's mom going over there and ⁓ she is going to ruin the whole plan. So now Shahrukh Khan has to go stop her. Now this works because you know the plan and something is going wrong now. So you have the plan, ⁓ you set up what success looks like and then how the plan is going to fail. So you create conflict. ⁓ The is ⁓ not the plan.
Akshay: Hmm. Yeah. The past he comes with. Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: okay this is happening, I am scared, this is what I need to do. His goal is he wants to avenge the death of his lover. And the conflict is reincarnated and recalls the truth. Because as they keep iterating in the film, who's going to believe this story that I've been reincarnated? Who's going to believe it? So his flaw is that in the past he was killed and his lover was killed and now he needs to live with that grief. And So over here, you don't know, as you said initially, what is really going to happen. Like Shah Rukh Khan has some sort of plan, why he is casting ⁓ Sandhya, why he's got Dolly over there. And you know that something is being done to spook like Arjun Rampal But you don't know what exactly is the end goal or the culmination. So this is when you hint...
Akshay: Hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: The conflict is how will he bring that grief forward when no one is going to believe it? So how do you bring that out? So that is your need in conflict. They're not obvious in this case as they usually are in, you know, other films, for example, where it's like, okay, I'm a coward and I need to become brave and so I'm facing the lion, you know. It's not. this, because of the nature of the film also, it's not really a character flaw. It's something that happened in the past. Yeah.
Akshay: Argent. The spook also kaputt. Yeah.
Ananya: So you hint at the plan and don't reveal it because in this case you get only one shot at the plan and the plan has no choice but to work. So over here spelling it out makes no sense because much can't go wrong it has to go right. So instead the other way of creating tension is by adding suspense to it as to what the plan
Akshay: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. W happened with him. Yeah.
Ananya: And in terms of stakes, again, this is one of those films where there are no external stakes. Like ⁓ if he doesn't avenge Shanti Priya's death, then Arjun Rampal, the status quo is the status quo, right? Like nothing changes. But he has to live internally with the guilt and the truth and the memories and see how that will take a toll on his psyche, his life, his ability to live a better life. Great. actually really is. And that you only realise towards the end when you've put pieces together, you're like, okay, they're spooking him, they're spooking him and finally it'll be the ultimate spook where they recreate scene of her death. So two ways in which you can do planning sequences differently based on the outcome that you want, whether there's going to be conflict or there won't. But even in that, they have added moments of conflict.
Akshay: ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Now Do you not think, even I was while I was writing the log line, that the log line is essentially the log line for the second half of the film. Right? The first half only your climax sequence is part of your log line, which is the whole killing sequence and the murder and him trying to save her. ⁓ but I think that's the beauty of old Hindi films.
Ananya: Cool. Hmm.
Akshay: Hmm. Yeah.
Ananya: Right? Like even with Deepika Deepika Padukone's character coming ⁓ as Shanti Priya during the final climax scene, it is like Arjun Ka Rampal over there ⁓ ⁓
Akshay: Mm-hmm.
Ananya: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Akshay: It's a dub feature use when AI dub will use.
Ananya: You Yeah.
Akshay: Because I feel this is one of those films that it's really about the screenplay and the journey. Right? Like you still don't feel bored at all, even though it's so much of it a setup and like so much of it is building the character of these two people, relationship of these two people, building the world of this film. ⁓ So I think... ⁓ because I was trying to think what would be the log line for the first half, but it's...
Ananya: I've never used it, have you? Hmm.
Akshay: I don't think we can. I think it's like a distinct paid thing.
Ananya: No. No, no, I think you can. Yeah.
Akshay: Okay, okay. Hmm.
Ananya: I think you can, I don't know, never tried, yeah. Yeah.
Akshay: No we'll bet.
Ananya: No, I'm just... I think Arjun Rampal's kind of irrelevant now. Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah, totally. It has to tie into the second half. It's can't be a separate log line. But it's a good upward graph. They've shown that how could this struggling artist be in this position ⁓ having to save this woman who he loves? Yeah.
Ananya: Yeah, that was a repeat to them shanteyo Yeah. Mm hmm.
Akshay: Yeah, genuinely, exactly. Although like now with Drandar he's again a little bit in the limelight, but like still nobody like cares too much.
Ananya: Yeah. Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I'm just going to cut that scene there with the planning sequence. That's fine. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And that is one thing they've done really well within this film is there's always cause and effect. Nothing happens out of nowhere. Like even when Shah Rukh Khan is on the studio and he's over here is what Arjun Rampal is planning with Shanti Priya and he's planning to like kill her and he's taken her to the set to kill her. It's because Shah Rukh Khan was drinking there because she has rejected him.
Akshay: Ha ha ha Yeah. Okay. Hmm. I I wanna talk about ⁓ the technique of subverting the expectation. So ⁓ SRK's character in the first half, he has ⁓ Shantipriya that, ⁓ I'm a big star from the south, I'm coming to do a film here. And now they put up this whole facade of you know a fake shoot.
Ananya: Thank Hmm.
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: It's like none of it is just happens to be there. You know, there is cause and effect everywhere. Which I really like. And even if there is that happens to be there, it makes it worse for the character. So we'll get into that when we talk about scene techniques. So I think very tightly plotted film. Like we've enjoyed the scene work. The scenes are sometimes a little longer than they need to be. And you know, they've gone a little overboard like the...
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Where he's like, you know, t ⁓ battling a tiger, he's like this, whatever, quick gun, murugan, all this action he does. And you think, you like she'll get impressed. So the audience is expecting he, like, ⁓ this story will move forward, okay? And everything will go hunky dory. But this subverts his expectation because his bluff is called out. Like his ⁓ his cover is blown that, ⁓ he's not this guy. Because somebody asks, hey, chalk.
Ananya: Hmm.
Akshay: Yeah.
Ananya: Hmm
Akshay: Yeah, totally, totally. Huh. Yeah, yeah.
Ananya: Yeah. ⁓ in a rascala minded scene. I'm like, that's just not ending. Why do we have a stuffed eye going on at this point?
Akshay: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ananya: Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Even like a lot of again it part it's part of everything is world building, right? Like ⁓ like again, South Indian actors coming to Bollywood was not a big thing back in the day. So hence the unbelievability that she doesn't know him yet because and he's trying to prove that ⁓ he's a big actor. So again, like trying to like overdo stuff. It's also I think this is I think India's version of camp. Like it's so like outrageously And like, you know, he has to take out his jacket and all of that. And then he finally confesses that I'm nobody. I'm just a struggling junior artist. ⁓ so you as an audience are like, ⁓ no, like you felt you feel so bad for this guy. And so again, you have already ⁓ subverted one expectation there that you know it was some it was go supposed to go one way, but it went the other way. And you now think that because he said so.
Ananya: You Hmm. Hmm. Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Akshay: Maybe at least the character thinks that she's not gonna be friends with him anymore. So again, you feel that hi bachara, like you know, but again, subvert that expectation is like I don't care. Nobody else jumped in the fire for me except for you. So we're still friends. ⁓ I thought that was a great scene. ⁓ Then I wanna talk about ⁓ out there. ⁓
Ananya: And then, yeah, Fun. Okay, heroes journey. Say that again, okay. Hmm. Hmmmm
Akshay: Yeah. But you're ⁓ heal Johnny
Ananya: Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. That's why you cough now on purpose. You're just like, no, not Do
Akshay: Yeah. One more pickup I have written for you, which we'll do in the end. putting enough moments in the film that when somebody re-watches your movie, they shouldn't feel the suspense came out of nowhere. So the technique you have to employ in this is that you have to really backtrack your suspense and see where you can plant appropriate hints for the audience. That it doesn't feel like it was just an out-of-nowhere, it was it wasn't unearned, it wasn't earned enough.
Ananya: Okay, okay. Pickup. Director sahab, you're practicing here now for your revenge. But pick up, you conceptualize the pick up, na. But... supervisor just says, take it. I conceptualize. Okay. Okay. Let's go into the hero's journey next. What is your hero's journey?
Akshay: Does it script supervised work?
Ananya: Mmm.
Akshay: Yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's cool.
Ananya: Hmm. Yeah.
Akshay: I have two moments here where before the final reveal that the ghost of Shanti Priya exists, ⁓ you sort of have set up in some way. Now that I look back in the movie after so long, that like, ⁓ that's such a clever thing they did here. That you know, like it's a little bit telling of that some extern exterior forces exist here. So one was that, one is the very obvious one, right? Which is the
Ananya: Your hero's journey is a journey which every character or every person, including you and I, go on. When we decide to do something new, that is something outside of our comfort zone, which we haven't done in the past, when we have a new goal that we want to achieve and we decide that enough is enough, this time we're actually going after it, we end up going on a journey, which is not so much a journey of achieving this goal, but it is the journey of
Akshay: ⁓ the frame set is on is on fire. ⁓ you see that the wire is broken, but still it catches on fire. So again, maybe you think maybe it worked in the end. So for like, you know, you think a little bit suspension of disbelief you can do ki chal niha pesha, kam karkya oka because char bar remote patak ki TV chal jata. You know it's that it's that logic. But but one more thing they do is that when ⁓
Ananya: becoming the person who can achieve this goal. It is about shedding your old identity. It is about fighting the demons and the dragons that come your way. It is about asking for help. It is about hesitating. It is about showing a kind of bravery or kind of gumption that you have never demonstrated in your life before but just are a demonstration of how much you care about this new goal, right? So, this hero's journey Hmm. ⁓ boy, ⁓ boy. ⁓ coined by Joseph Campbell is a journey our characters are going to go on too. It is this process. But it is a little more streamlined because in real life these phases occur and bleed into each other and don't really occur on the same timeline. But when you're watching a movie you want a somewhat linear experience so that your audiences feel like they have gone on an emotional journey. One that mimics the one that they will go on too but within a span of two hours, two and a half hours.
Akshay: Sandy's character is roaming around in the dance in the song sequence, ⁓ and he's she's trying to spook ⁓ Arjun Rampa's character. There is one shot you see of Dipaka Padukon's character in Shanti Priya's clothes, even though Sandy is in the new clothes in the far end, in under a spotlight, just looking at him. So in that moment, you're like, is this Shanti or is this Sandy? and
Ananya: Hmm. Hmmmm So this hero's journey ensures that you give your audience these emotional hits that they need so that they know that the story is moving forward in an emotionally relevant and structured fashion. More cohesive. It makes the emotions make logical sense, the logic of emotions, ⁓ So your hero's journey consists of 12 different phases.
Akshay: The next thing you see is Shantip is actually in a room. So probably this is the ghost. and this time when I was watching, when Arjun Rampal comes into this new set, which looks exactly like the old set, the first thing he does is looks at the Juman and then he looks at the ground. This is a very far shot, which is not covered, but I notice this because now I as I know what the secret is, right? So
Ananya: Hmm. Yeah.
Akshay: More cohesive way, yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: Hmm... Ground...
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: Yeah... And these phases take you through the various turning points that your hero has to hit in the process of achieving their goal and becoming the person who achieves this goal first and foremost. Yeah
Akshay: But so cleverly directed and planted here that ⁓ because he knows like it's ground myself. So he immediately looks down. So I thought that was a great ⁓ thing they did. And I I think it's a sign of good plotting and like good staging, because again your audience shouldn't feel this was so random, right? Like yeah, so you have to do these things for your audience, especially for a good mystery to land.
Ananya: Mmm. Yeah. So the first phase of your hero's journey. But before we go into that, I wanted to talk to you about the two different hero's journeys, right? That are part of this film because as we mentioned before in several films too, because Bollywood has a tendency, especially when this film was made of doing a before interval after interval, we almost kind of have two different films, right? And ⁓ over here too, because...
Akshay: Yeah.
Ananya: Out of nowhere, yeah. for sure, yeah. And this comes only in your later drafts, right? You first write that, Jhumar ke niche melegi Shanti Priya ki lash. And then you go back and write it in your script that like Arjun Rampal's character looks up and looks down at the ground. So this is stuff that just comes in retrospect. This is how your rewriting comes in. This is when all your jokes come in. This is when all your Easter eggs are planted.
Akshay: Yeah, yeah.
Ananya: Shah Rukh Khan dies and is reborn into a new storyline. We also have two different films, but one film driving the other. So we have two heroes journeys.
Akshay: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a proper case of first half, second half because the worlds also change, right? Like in the first half it's the world of s as a struggling actor and the second half is the world of a superstar, essentially. So this completely warrants two ⁓ different heroes' journey. And the first one informs the other anyway. So which is great. Yeah. Yeah. Like you have to use your timing of rewrite to elevate every scene possible, right? Like you have to relook at the scene now that you know the end already. So like how can you like pad up, layer up, like make it more elevated with a joke, with a moment, with a scene? However you can do that. Do it in your second, third draft. ⁓
Ananya: Yeah Yeah, but he is. Yeah. Yeah. Hmmmm Exactly. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Nothing is wasted. Again, perfect cause and effect. Right? Okay. So first you have the ordinary world. What is the ordinary world? It's the world in which your hero exists before they decide to go on this journey or before they decide to pursue their goal. You see what their limitation is, what their flaw is, what the rules of their world are. Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: 45th draft, yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. ⁓ then I wanna talk about the the technique of foreshadowing. You sort of give a clue or a hint to the audience that this is what the film might go, this is where my film might go. So that again, when it happens, it feels that you're part of this journey anyway, and it doesn't seem again out of nowhere or random. So here when
Ananya: What the when, where, who, what and why of the world are and the circumstances that are holding them back or making them the person that they are. Over here we see Shah Rukh Khan is a junior artist. He's extremely enthusiastic. He really wants to make it big. He really loves the movies. He has a mom and a best friend as one always does in these films and he is also madly in love with Hmm.
Akshay: ⁓ Om Prakash Makija is telling Shanti Priya that this is what my role is, you know, that I'm gonna die two times and come back. ⁓ so in the he says that in the first half of the movie, I'm killed and you know I die, but I'm reborn and I take revenge in the second half and I die again. So ⁓ purposely done that so that you know, again, your audience doesn't feel like this is absolutely absurd when it actually happens.
Ananya: Mm-hmm.
Akshay: Yeah.
Ananya: Shanti Priya, the big superstar who is out of his reach. Right? And he's going to premieres to get her attention just to see her and he is absolutely in love with her. Then we have the call to action. What is your call to action? It is when you're given the first sort of call to achieve your goal. Come, come achieve your goal here. Why don't you go after it? Right? Yeah. Hmm... Yeah...
Akshay: And it's also like a good like again, an Easter egg for the whole movie. ⁓ but it's actually I think good foreshadowing because it's brushed off as a joke until it becomes actually serious.
Ananya: Yeah. Hmm.
Akshay: Yeah.
Ananya: Over here, the call to action is ⁓ when they're on a set and they're shooting with Shanti Priya and it's a dacoit kind of situation and the set is on fire because that is what the movie calls for and Shanti Priya is caught in the fire and someone, the actor needs to go rescue her. And then you have the refusal of the call. This is all happening in one quick sequence, right?
Akshay: then then then then then then then. ⁓ I want to talk about the technique of callback. ⁓ callbacks are moments, dialogues, ⁓ small scenes between characters which happen at multiple places in the film, ⁓ which either tell us that the relationship has changed between them or it hasn't changed at all. and one big moment which comes to See yeah.
Ananya: Yeah, one scene actually. ⁓ And the refusal of the call is when either you or someone around you says, no, you cannot go after your goal. It's too big for you. It's not supposed to be or you are scared to go after it. Over here, Shah Rukh Khan wants to go after her, but he is a junior artist ⁓ and is actually the actor, the main superstar who has to go and rescue Shanti Priya from the fire. That is the scene. So everyone's like, no, no, you don't go. Let this actor go. ⁓
Akshay: My mind is when Om Prakash Makija tells Shanti Priya that the love you deserve? Just reach for it and it's yours. So ⁓ and she says, I'll reach it and I'll claim it as mine. Like this is what she says. So that's one moment ⁓ established. That's also her learning in this scene. The next time she does this.
Ananya: Hmm. Hmm. Then you have meeting the mentor. Meeting the mentor is when you meet someone who has been on your journey and says that, okay, ⁓ you know, I have been where you are going to go and I will give you the sword you need to kill your dragon. So over here, there is no literal mentor who says that. But I was thinking maybe the actor finally refusing to go in was the structural push that he needed
Akshay: Is when she is actually in front of Arjun Rampal's character. She's saying that asking for the happiness that's mine to claim, and he doesn't raise the hand. So here the callback says the relationship has changed here, right? Because, like, first of all, she said she will do this and she did it, but she doesn't get reciprocated. Now, another time this happens in the movie is when they're actually dying for the first time ⁓ in the for the end of the first half.
Ananya: Hmmmm Hmm.
Akshay: Mentor. Yeah.
Ananya: Mm. Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah.
Ananya: to be able to say that, okay, I am crossing the threshold now, like literally the fire threshold, but it's not like a mentor character and nor is it like a mentorship moment also. It is just a push. Absolutely. Yeah.
Akshay: Where he's come to save her, and there's a brief moment of realization that I've come to save you. Don't worry. So he extends his hand and she extends her hand as well. ⁓ so and there's no rush there, they're not getting out there. It's just a small realization that I'm ⁓ this is the love I have for you. I'm extending it, and she's I'm accepting it. And but again, they killed off. Now, this again is repeated in the very end of the movie when
Ananya: Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. Correct. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's the final push this character needed to pursue his goal right now. I've I've also written the same, like the fire scene. ⁓ Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: Hmm. the fire scene, yeah exactly. So yeah, so then Shah Rukh Khan crosses the threshold, threshold crossing the threshold is when you make a move into the new world and you say I am going to achieve my goal no matter what and you take an action that is irreversible. So where Shah Rukh Khan jumps to the fire and rescues Shanti Priya in the process even burning his own back. Hmm... Yeah.
Akshay: Om Kapoor sees the host of Shantipriya and she's walking back and she does this one final time. ⁓ raises extends his hand towards her. ⁓ again, it just goes on to say that the relationship which he wanted with her has not changed. The nature of it has not changed. So I thought that was a great callback. It's so small, right? Like ⁓ very hard to write it, but great if you can execute it.
Ananya: Yeah But he says, I will do this again and again if I have to. I didn't do it to show myself like the bigger man, I did it because I love this woman a lot. So, and Shanti Priya hears this, she thanks him and Shreyas Talpade, who is Shah Rukh Khan's sidekick, goes all he's actually not a junior artist. He's like a famous actor from the South, et cetera. Then you have test allies and enemies. This is when... Yeah, yeah. Mary. Yeah. Wow.
Akshay: Because it's not clever. That's the good thing. Like it's simple and simplicity is the hardest.
Ananya: Hmm, simple. Yeah, yeah. Because it needs to touch hearts. It's not a mind, like you said, it's not clever. doesn't need to stimulate the mind. It needs to touch people's hearts.
Akshay: Yeah. I wanna I wanna Hold on a moment. ⁓ Again we've spoken about how there are lots of times where films have multiple calls to actions and multiple refusal of the calls. So what you said was bang on, like right? Like this was the call and somebody refused it and he had to pursue it. One more call to action and refusal of the call, which I found in the movie, which I thought was there, was that so far he was just an admirer of this woman from afar, from on a poster in the movies. And I feel a great callback or a great payoff is something where you don't even remember this was a setup. You know, like it's so it's so organic and it's so internalized that you're like, ⁓ then you later on piece it, like, ⁓ yeah, you know? ⁓ so it's like great. ⁓ let me just check if I have other anything else.
Ananya: Yeah. Mmm, it's so organic to the moment. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Hmm
Akshay: But this time he's told that, ⁓ you can actually meet her tonight for the first time because ⁓ she's coming for a premiere and I've scored tickets for the two of us. So that was I think another call to action where he can actually meet the love of his life. And in a structural way, the refusal of the call begins when or the refusal of the call happens when he's thrown out of the theatre. So ⁓ that again, like this was a very short lived moment in their life, that will not happen again. I think that is it. These two things I'll bring it in dialogue TK. So yeah.
Ananya: Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I just had one last technique I want to talk about which is micro conflict because your film is built on the idea of conflict. You can't go long without something going wrong without some tension drama suspense jeopardy danger whatever you want to call it. So over here when you have the song of like Dastaan Hai Ye like with the music launch which is going on and Shanti Priya is spooking Arjun Kapoor but
Akshay: Hmm.
Ananya: Hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Akshay: So a hero is refused this call that ⁓ even though you met her, nothing is gonna come out of this. Yeah.
Ananya: happen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. For sure. And ⁓ yeah, I believe that if he had not been thrown out of the cinema, he would have gone and found a way to meet her. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. For sure. Cool. Nice. Then we have test allies and enemies.
Akshay: This time I don't realize not till you stop. Yeah.
Ananya: It's become so normal. Yeah. Okay. where Shanti Priya is spooking Arjun Rampal and ⁓ over there it's all going as per plan, right? He is spooked. But then he decides to leave in that song and you cut to Shreyas Talpade's reaction that no, no, no, no, no, no, he can't leave. So you've created micro conflict in that moment. The song is still going on.
Akshay: Exactly, yeah. Because that's his character also, like sneaking in, sneaking out, yeah. Yeah. ⁓
Ananya: This is where you understand the lay of the land of your new world. What are the tests you're going to face? Who are your allies who are going to help you out? Who are the enemies who are going to stand in your way? Over here, this is a shortish sequence where Shah Rukh Khan is pretending to be an actor from the South and trying to live up to that role and only for his sort of disguise, his lie to come crashing down. Everything is going as to plan. But it's boring if everything is still going as per plan. You need to have at least a moment. And then Shah Rukh Khan swoops in and like ropes him back into the song and makes him part of it and saves the day. But it is moments like these which also make sure your audience don't go to sleep during the movie. So you need to keep giving them little like, ⁓ my God, ⁓ my God, little... I think these are the drama equivalents of a bit of a jump scare, kind of, but not really.
Akshay: Yeah.
Ananya: And Deepika to find out that he's actually just a junior artist. And Shah Rukh is like, ⁓ well, we're done for. But he really wants to go on a date with her. And Deepika obliges. She's like, okay, I will go on a date with you. Right? One night. And then we have the ⁓ approach to the innermost cave. Your approach to the innermost cave is if your goal is to slay the dragon, this is where you start approaching the cave where your dragon is
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And it happens again the same song, right? Like he follows her and like she ⁓ crashes into like a candlestick or something. And ⁓ and like she like bleeds. And that's what ⁓ so it's immediately like breaks the illusion for him that she's not real. Like, you know, she is real, like she's not his imagination. Yeah. Yeah, again, micro conflict moment create.
Ananya: candle and she has a burn yeah and start the fight against them. Over here is the wonderful date sequence which is in the studio, in the sound studio and they can't go anywhere so they create everywhere within the studio and they have this phenomenal date together. And then you have your ordeal. Your ordeal is where now that you've gotten your bag of gold and you're escaping, the dragon is coming after you. Yeah, real, a ghost, Yeah, exactly. Great, for sure,
Akshay: What next?
Ananya: Mmm, up a toe.
Akshay: We could do shorter jobs.
Ananya: Yep, let's do genre tropes. I genre trope, dialogue, world.
Akshay: Yeah, that's it. Huh.
Ananya: you have to fight off the consequences. ⁓ Over here it is Shah Rukh Khan finding out that Deepika Padukone is actually married to Arjun Rampal's character and she's actually pregnant with his kid too. Shah Rukh Khan is heartbroken and in his heartbreak as he's drinking he learns that Arjun Rampal is going to kill Deepika Padukone. Cool.
Akshay: Is it cold there?
Ananya: It's not cold but I'm just also not wearing too many clothes so I need blanket. It's 19 degrees. Not too bad.
Akshay: Okay. Mm mm. Yeah. But decent weather, good weather.
Ananya: Yeah, yeah. Someone ⁓ sent Mali a birthday wish and she doesn't know who it is.
Akshay: Yeah. When does that happen?
Ananya: That is the whole point, no? Sure.
Akshay: So she's tracking with everybody. Isn't that like a reveal he also comes to know that he's gonna like ⁓ sh I didn't I never thought he got to know that he's gonna kill kill her.
Ananya: Yeah, he also is drinking. Yeah, she just said, don't know and the number is and the picture is of a cat.
Akshay: ⁓
Ananya: Yeah. I sent her a video on Instagram saying three exercises to do if your body is paining and I was like happy 43. ⁓ I thought he overheard everything. I don't know, Devanar.
Akshay: He overheard that he overheard that like ⁓ I'm pregnant and he's like ⁓ I'm gonna like ⁓ that's such a good news, thank God you told me about this. And then he Hmm Hmm
Ananya: Yeah. Hmm. But then when he's drinking, he's outside the thing, and he's listening to the whole marriage proposal.
Akshay: Ha ha ha.
Ananya: Because the other day she was complaining. She was like, my body hurts and it's telling me to work out.
Akshay: Yeah. Right, right, right, right, side ha ha. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. ⁓
Ananya: Hmm that is overhearing. wait, I'll start again my god, I don't understand people who don't.
Akshay: Howdy huh? Yeah. Haha
Ananya: Then you have the ordeal. The ordeal is when if you've gotten your bag of gold from the dragon and you're leaving the cave, the dragon is now coming after you and you have to fight them off, run away from them, make good your escape. Over here it is post the date. Shahrukh Khan wants Deepika Padukone's attention, but he's not getting any. He realizes that she is in fact married to Arjun Rampal's character and she's going to have his kid. Let's go into genre tropes next. So I'll start with a rom-com genre trope. There are two I want to talk about in one scene. Which is the first is the bubble. So this is when Shah Rukh Khan goes for the premiere of Deepika Padukone's Dreamy Girl and his dhaga gets stuck ⁓ what do you call Deepika Padukone's bangle like
Akshay: Let's do it.
Ananya: Next, he is drinking, he is sad, he realizes that he has to let it go. Even in his drinking, he is really, he's like, okay, I will let it go this ⁓ only for you. Next time, I won't let Arjun Rampal's character get away with this, but if you're happy, I'm happy. And as he's drinking on the studio lot, he happens to be at the same studio where Arjun Rampal is with Deepika and it seems like they're planning their wedding. dupatta something like that. ⁓ And he follows her for a bit, before, after which she is being dragged away. And even as he is being dragged away, you are caught in the moment between the two of them because of the music and all of that. He's staring at her, she's staring at him, all of that. And then the bubble bursts and you realise it's all the security saying, arey, chal chal, idhar se. So this is isolating the two of them, creating a mini bubble world.
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: Only for them, only for Arjun Rampal to reveal that he is here to kill Deepika Padukone's character. Shah Rukh Khan, because he's drinking over there, finds out what is happening. And as Arjun Rampal leaves and Deepika is trapped in the burning studio lot, Shah Rukh Khan tries to rescue her, but he is punched down by Arjun Rampal's goons and he is injured. Yet, he fakes his own death for a few moments or he fakes that done for.
Akshay: Yeah.
Ananya: before you have reality. Because this is the point of, again, it's how you create conflict, right? Contradiction. For reality to land, you need to first put them in a bubble world in order for that, ⁓ no, they're being pulled away to actually hit you. And this also is a transgressive touch, which we've discussed, is when touch hasn't been earned, they haven't been close enough to kiss, to hug, any of that, but...
Akshay: Mm. Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: And as the goons retreat, Shahrukh Khan is able to break the glass and go in and help Deepika Padukone. That is your reward. The reward is when you are finally able to get a moment with your bag of gold and go ahead and get what it is and ⁓ enjoying that for a moment. So here, this is not a moment of enjoyment, but it is a moment of reward that the thing is moving forward. You're getting what you want. Right? You still need to meet audience expectations of a rom-com where there's touching, there's touching and that. So you create moments when they're not supposed to touch each other, but it happens and that's called transgressive touch. So over here, the fact that Deepika Padukone has to untangle her dupatta from his dhaga, that transgressive touch. Also, I want to add that that dhaga was tied around his wrist by his mum
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like he wants to get her out, so like that's the real hope that he's about to. Yeah.
Ananya: who said that no, no, will go well, you'll get Shanti Priya. And it's that same thread which catches. So again, cause and effect, economical, tight writing and rewriting in the drafts. Very, very, very well done.
Akshay: ⁓ Yeah. Same. Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: Exactly, exactly. Then you have the way back. The way back is you've gotten your bag of gold, but now there is still a bunch of road to cover ahead and there are demons and dragons on that road and you have to fight them off in order to go back to your old world. So over here Shah Rukh Khan is trying to rescue her. The fire is blazing all around them and he tries his hardest.
Akshay: Yeah. Very well done. And this is such a Bollywood trope. Now the woman's dupatta or Sari will like get in the boys watch or something. ⁓ Like it's this is a trope will you see nowhere else but just Bollywood films. ⁓ Yeah.
Ananya: Yeah Mmhmm, Bollywood, exactly. And that That is your world, right? Like how ultra Bollywood can you make this film is what it's but he is unable to rescue her and in a moment he is shot out of the window and he lands in front of a car and he is ⁓ knocked out by that car. And then you have your resurrection. Your resurrection is when your character is at their lowest but they find the last will of strength inside them and they rise from the ashes. Right?
Akshay: Yeah, about. Nice.
Ananya: I also want to talk about rain as a genre trope to amplify emotion. We spoke about this in Hum Tum as well, where something goes wrong and you want to make the characters look sad or you want to make them come together or you want to make them show longing, you use rain because it creates doom, gloom, sadness. So over here when Shah Rukh Khan learns that Deepika is actually with Arjun Rampal, it starts raining around him when he's drinking. So another one. Over here Shah Rukh Khan is in the hospital, the doctors are trying to save him but he doesn't resurrect. There is no rising from the ashes, right? But then you have the return with the elixir. The return with the elixir is when you go back into your old world but now as a new person. And I think the return with the elixir here is all the way from him being reborn as Rajesh Kapoor's son, the famous actor's son, nepo baby.
Akshay: I have a few genre tropes of romcom. ⁓ The genre trope of fantasy versus reality. ⁓ the song Dhum Tana, where Om Prakash's character from the audience is looking at Shanti Priya's films with these big heroes. He is imagining himself in place of these actors. ⁓ Because that's ultimate fantasy, right? ⁓ A to be a hero, B to be with her. ⁓
Ananya: Yeah. Hmm.
Akshay: Hm. Hmm. Yeah.
Ananya: Hmm. To him finally realizing that I am in a reincarnation that I used to be this junior artist and I have to save I have to avenge the death of Shanti Priya because return with the elixir is what? That you are a new person and you've learned something new. So the learning only comes when he realizes that this is what I'm here to do with my life. Yeah. Hmm.
Akshay: Hmm.
Ananya: Yeah.
Akshay: ⁓ it's like a so it's a great fantasy land and it constantly keeps breaking because ⁓ he's still in the audience. Whereas she is the big heroine working with these big actors. The reason this works is because it gives again a moment of yearning for our audience that, ⁓ this character wants to be with her so badly. Like everything he does are things about her. ⁓ But it's still far from truth. So that yearning and anticipation is what this genre trope does very well. Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: Hmm.
Akshay: Yeah. Hmm. Right, right. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah.
Ananya: Cool. Let's go into the hero's journey of the second half. Now over here your ordinary world is the world of the superstar where you see that Shah Rukh Khan is a superstar, he's Rajesh Kapoor's son, everyone is clamoring for his attention and he has a phobia of fire in this lifetime. Then you have the call to action. Hmm. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah.
Akshay: ⁓ I wanna talk about the genre troupe of grand gestures. The first date he takes her out and he says, I'm gonna have just one evening with you. He plans it a ⁓ elaborate date, right? Like it's in a sound studio, they have multiple setups, the different costumes, whatever, everything ⁓ and ⁓ just like what is will be the biggest thing he can do for her is like to feel seen and to feel like so that they can enjoy these different moments in just one night. Yeah. File.
Ananya: Yeah. Yeah. And now over here, as you mentioned, there are several call to actions, right? And the call to actions are the triggers from the past life. It's the fire, it is going to the set that burned down, it is Kirron Kher's character who's the mother, right? And something stirs within him. But then he has the refusal of the call, which is inaction, which is he doesn't know what to do. Yeah. Hmm.
Akshay: Fast. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.
Ananya: Hmmmm
Akshay: ⁓ The reason that gesture works is because you really want to tell your person that this is the extent I can go to for you. ⁓ So what do you think? Do you wanna be on this journey with me or not? So it's like a great so he this is what the way he's professing his love for her. ⁓
Ananya: Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. Not believing what this is or not knowing what this is. Yeah.
Ananya: knowing what this is exactly. It's like, I don't know why this is happening. Right? And the mentors in this case, I believe are the memories which are triggered, which is what finally get him to take action. Right? When he finally has the memory of everything that goes down after the Filmfare speech all of that, he really recalls everything. And those memories are his mentors. Right? Yeah. Yeah, Rescuing her from the fire, grand gesture.
Akshay: Yeah, rescuing her from the fire, yeah. Grand gesture. Yeah. True that, I didn't think of that. Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: I think so.
Akshay: ⁓ so yeah, these two moments I had were rom com genre tropes. Yeah, like I also felt Like the entry of Arjun Rampal's character back in this life. Like that is that's the final trigger for him to like, ⁓ now I remember everything suddenly you know? Because he was he was trying to replace what is all these flashes, what are these ⁓ things like. But the moment he sees this perpetrator, this like murderer actually, and that's when it all like comes to him, like, ⁓ this was my life.
Ananya: you I wanted to go into reincarnation genre tropes too. I haven't seen a lot of reincarnation movies but I feel like this is legit, right? One is ⁓ the phobia of fire over here which is essentially ⁓ a past life thing has to come and haunt you in your current life. So over there he was killed in a fire so obviously current life may he has a phobia of fire. It is a genre trope because it's reincarnation so you have to carry baggage from the past. Hmm, that is also...
Akshay: Mm-hmm.
Ananya: everything exactly so arjun rampal is like
Akshay: Yeah. Hmm.
Ananya: Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah.
Ananya: Exactly, exactly. So Arjun Rampal's character is also a trigger. It's a call to action and the memory is like the mentor which everything comes back. The next is ⁓ role reversal. In the first half of the film, he is Deepika Padukone's super fan. And the second half, Sandhya ⁓ is Kapoor's super fan. And there is no other way to do it. This is how it has to be done. Because now the roles have switched and in this reincarnation, because he has reincarnated, there has been a status switch. And you have to show that within the characters.
Akshay: ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Correct. Yeah.
Ananya: And then you have Crossing the Threshold. This I believe is the longer sequence where he goes to meet Kiran Kher and Shreyas Talpade's character. He's like, okay, you're my mother, great. Hi, Shreyas. Become old. And then he goes and meets Arjun Rampal's character too. And he says that, okay, you want to make a movie with me? I want to remake Om Shanti Om. And he convinces Arjun Rampal that this is the way forward. That is Crossing the Threshold.
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So Yeah.
Ananya: So if I were, this is the only way to do it in a reincarnation film. Then.
Akshay: Yeah. Like it shows the b broadest range, right? Like like he was a struggling actor, now he's a superstar. He was a super fan, but now he has a super fan. So the broadest range you can show. Yeah. What I find so interesting in the second half is that early on in the second half they've nowhere really told us his intentions. Like, ⁓ is he doing this? Like, is he does he want to avenge Shanti Priya's death? What does he want to do? Like I think that's a interesting choice they've made because it's a lot of things, right? Like it's to avenge his own life, it's to avenge like ⁓ Shanti Priya's life. Just like so much so much layering is done here. Yeah.
Ananya: Hmm... Duh. Exactly. How different the reincarnation is, like how much life has changed for him, like how the reincarnation is, how one life is different from the other life, which is why he can value the other life or value this life more. Yeah. Hmm.
Akshay: Yeah, yeah.
Ananya: Yeah
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: And another one I want to talk about is dreams turning into reality. So where he says in one life that, ⁓ I will have all these servants and silk robes, all of that. And now he's actually waking up to that reality. So another thing, like you set this up in one world and when they reincarnate, they have their dreams come true into the other world. So we have to watch more reincarnation films to confirm that these are genre tropes, but I'm pretty certain that they are. Yeah, yeah, For sure. Exactly. Great. Then you have test allies and enemies. Over here it is the fun sequence of casting Shanti Priya. It is about finding the right person, not being able to find the right person until they finally meet Sandhya, Sandy, who is ⁓ a Deepika Padukone lookalike, ⁓ essentially, or a Shanti Priya lookalike, not a reincarnation, just a lookalike, someone who looks like her.
Akshay: Yeah. Mm. So so They are, they are, they are. I think a lot of K dramas do this.
Ananya: And who has none of the grace and charm of Shanti Priya and they have to figure out how to train her to become the best Shanti Priya she can and Shah Rukh Khan ultimately reveals the reason he's doing it to her and he says that look I'm actually like this reincarnation and stuff and she believes him. And then you have the approach to the innermost cave right Mmm, yeah, those. We need to be referencing those, yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. First we have to watch so many of them.
Ananya: Yeah. The problem with them is like I watch a lot of things in the background, so I'm listening to them, but I can't like listen to these Korean shows. have to listen to the dub, which I'm not going to do.
Akshay: ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. And my problem wouldn't live very long. So Yeah. Twenty episodes of an hour each. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: Never a long, never a long. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The approach to the innermost cave is when they start spooking Arjun Rampal out. They bring him everywhere and they start making him believe that he's seeing Shanti Priya's ghost everywhere. It's first at the studio lot, is then when they're doing like watching the rushes of the film and they see Shanti Priya in there and then it is at the music launch also, right? That over there Shanti Priya's ghost is walking around everywhere. I slow burn and all I'm like jumping to bed now, it's okay
Akshay: Hm. Yeah.
Ananya: me. Are we done with Ronald?
Akshay: Yeah, I don't have anything. Hmm.
Ananya: Hmm. This too long. Since should ⁓
Akshay: Yeah. And I feel like this movie has more and more which you haven't looked at. Like I'm pretty sure.
Ananya: But then you have the ordeal. Your ordeal is over here that Arjun Rampal finds out that this whole thing is a hoax, that Shanti Priya is fake, has to be an actor because he sees her bleeding and he's figured out that something is up over here. Right? So even as Shah Rukh Khan tries to corner him to admit the truth, he realizes that Arjun Rampal knows what's going on. Then you have the reward. looked at yeah yeah hmm i know i'm just like ⁓ god yeah okay Should we go into character creation next
Akshay: Feeling so tired already. Let's do it.
Ananya: So speaking of character creation, you already touched upon this when you talked about the opening shot of the film, right? So how do you build empathy immediately for Shah Rukh Khan's character? Because you have to fall in love with him and these techniques should work even if you're not able to cast Shah Rukh Khan in your film. So the first is that A, he is extremely enthusiastic. Which is when Sandhya or Shanti Priya, actually Shanti Priya's ghost comes and says information that even ⁓ Sandhya could know that even Shah Rukh Khan's character doesn't know. That ⁓ Arjun Rampal came back that night of the fire and he buried me alive. And if you want my lash, tumi ye jhumar ke niche mil jayegi. And that is the reward, right? You like characters who are just full of joy and who are enthusiastic. You're tired of seeing all these negative nancies in your life. Like that's everyday life. Film is escapism. So character who's happy in a happy situation, obviously, who's not cynical, who's really enjoying the moment, giving it their all. You love a character like that. You're on board with them. It's like when someone laughs, you laugh with them. It's contagious. So contagious happiness. The second one is ambition.
Akshay: Mm-hmm.
Ananya: Then starts your way back where Arjun Rampal to escape all of this. Sets the place on fire yet again. This turns into a battle between Shah Rukh Khan, Arjun Rampal and Shah Rukh Khan is able to get his hands on Arjun Rampal's gun. And this is when he wants to kill Arjun Rampal. Immediately you see him in the role of Rishi Kapoor that he wants to be like the superstar. You like characters who are ambitious because you admire them. You want to be like them. You believe that's a good way of living life. Third is other characters admiring them or believing them. Shreyas Talpade believes that Shah Rukh Khan is going to be a big actor. So you as an audience also automatically believe that he is going to be a big actor. Right? But Deepika Padukone Shantipriya says, ⁓ no, you can't do that. And that is when he's at his lowest. He's like, I have to kill him. His death is written at my hands. And she's like, no, it's not written at your hands. It's written, but it's written thanks to the Jhumur. And then she drops the Jhumur down and she kills Arjun Rampal's character. And that is the resurrection, where all of them kind of come back.
Akshay: Yeah.
Ananya: And then he's never disrespectful. He has a good relationship with his mom, but it is also about not about being overtly respectful. It is about also having banter, playfulness. So it's realistic. And building on that, he's also an everyman that we relate to. He's a smaller cog in the grander scheme of things, which is most people. So again, immediate relatability.
Akshay: Mm. Mm.
Ananya: And then you have the return with the elixir, which they've really not created a return with the elixir scene. Like everyone meets, it's all good, but yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. Cool. Yeah. I think returns the the realization of SRK's character that ⁓ like this is Shanti Priya, you know? ⁓ because he when even when she was still saying he is Jumar ki niche milegi Shanti ki lash, he wasn't doing two plus two. He wasn't believing in it, yeah. He was unsure. But the moment he sees actually Sandy in the back and then he looks up and she's still standing there, he realizes, ⁓ She was helping me throughout and like
Ananya: Mm-hmm. You're gonna yell. ⁓ Anything else?
Akshay: The characters because I don't have anything. I feel like I feel like a lot of character like these characters are very
Ananya: to, or he was, but he wasn't believing it entirely. He was unsure. Yeah. I realize I also have words. Sorry. Yeah
Akshay: Like prob probably not only criticism to this movie is like every character is just like a w one note. You know, I think like because I feel like the movie is such an elevated, heightened movie that, you know, the mother is the mother, the best friend is the best friend, ⁓ the girlfriend is the girlfriend. Probably like the girlfriend has the most layering essentially, because she like also looks at him as a friend. But you know, when she is very ⁓
Ananya: Yeah.
Akshay: she's here.
Ananya: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Nice. one.
Akshay: Yeah. ⁓ So I think his new realisation that ⁓ that her spirit continues to live here, you know, or his her spirit exists. I think that's his new learning for the Elixir.
Ananya: Hmm. Yeah. Mado, yeah. Best friend, yeah. Hmm... Exist. Hmm. Is it though? I mean, what do do with that information? Like, elixir is when you go into like the new world, knowing that, you know, you have changed for the better, or you're a new person.
Akshay: No, what do you think sir? Like like knowing that somebody
Ananya: Hmm.
Akshay: bothered in her old world and he's come to see her. She doesn't even say hi to him. ⁓ And like she has a secret life, but she's not able to come out of that. So I think like Shanti Priya's character has a lot of layers. And which probably I think even Om Prakash's ⁓ doesn't have that. Like he doesn't have a inner conflicting world. He doesn't have those too many thoughts. But I think hers is the strongest character. Yeah. Her hers is the more like
Ananya: Yeah. Hmmmm Yeah.
Akshay: I think the The fact that he wanted justice, but the fact that nature itself warranted justice from your hands, I think there is some sort of like realization, like some new information a person will feel, you ⁓ ⁓ suppose bad example, if I'm writing a film, but tomorrow somebody tells me you were born to write this film. You know that's a that's a big ⁓
Ananya: No. No. No it doesn't. Yeah.
Akshay: She has secrets, she has a different life, she has an interior exterior world, ⁓ which differentiates her from him.
Ananya: Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. No. Yeah, yeah. And secrets is a great character layering technique, right? A character deepening technique. That you live one life, but you're actually holding something so big within you. So it makes you believe the character is not one note, that they can hold multiple truths at a time and that creates a complex character.
Akshay: Yeah. Right, like his 30 years of his life has now like resulted this spirit getting like a final whatever, you know, like just justice. Which like because nobody really cared about his life, because nobody cared. ⁓ But ⁓ clearly somebody did for this ghost ⁓ ⁓ I think that's a new like a new realization that this character has that ⁓ I even though there's Sandy which exists, but there's also Shanti Priya's spirit which exists. Huh.
Ananya: Hmm... Yeah...
Akshay: Yeah.
Ananya: No, no.
Akshay: Yeah, yeah. And I think they've again like done it in her character in a very interesting way that again it's not a sudden reveal that her character has this. The moment when she's come to like ⁓ see him for the for date night, she comes in a burqa. So I again like I think it's hard for the superstars to just go out alone. So number one is that. Number two is that when he's telling her that you too deserve love and you just have to extend your hand forward, her face is like
Ananya: Hmm. Hmm. Hmm... Hmm... Yeah, I'm not convinced but I see that you're going somewhere with it but we haven't nailed it. Hmm.
Akshay: Anyway.
Ananya: Alone. Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. Sure. Yeah. I feel like one more thing that this movie did very well, which was that the sequence of ⁓ approach to inmost cave, ordeal and reward. I think there was a a little bit of mini those arcs also, like in this film. Like how we've always spoken as a series of call to actions and ⁓ refusal of the call. Like I felt this was like even the case in against him and you can see like the glint of like sadness in her eyes. ⁓ so again, yeah, foreshadowing and again truly feeling in that moment that it's just not for plot. Like her character truly felt that that somebody spoke these words to her. So again, so much her character is very deep here.
Ananya: Hmm. Hmm, that's foreshadowing. Yeah. Hmmmm Yeah. Yeah. Hmm, very deep for sure. Yeah. And you touched briefly on world. So let's go into world next, because obviously this film is built on the world. It's built the promise of taking you into the world of Bollywood, opening those doors up for you so that you can see it from two lenses, the lens of a junior artist and the lens of a superstar. And like you said, Easter eggs, it's full of Easter eggs, but there's also all the conflict is derived from the world.
Akshay: Yeah. Ordeal and reward here. Because one of the things, ordeals which the approach in most cave is them trying to spook Arjun Rampal's character. Now the ordeal is the consequence of what you've done, right? Like you've gotten the bag of so and he says, you know what? I'm leaving. I'm going away. So again, that's a problem because if that happens, then they can't achieve the goal which they've set out on. And the reward ends up becoming that.
Ananya: Okay. Hmm. Yeah. Need leaving, yeah. Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah.
Ananya: Hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Akshay: Sharakhan's character s almost blackmails him, ⁓ that you have to stay, otherwise you're finished. And that he's able to do that, that becomes like a reward. So like a mini ordeal and a mini reward there.
Ananya: First is for example, you need to change your name. Om Prakash Makhi Jaa nahi chalega. Om Prakash phir bhi theek hai. Makhi Jaa, no dude. And he even says, this is what we just tell all the makhis to go like, iske le that pe so good. He's like, no, you need to be an Om Kapoor or something. And next life he's born as an Om Kapoor. But this is a very relevant conflict within Bollywood. Like, it's a thing that everyone is changing their names all the time because either numerology or it doesn't sound filmy enough, cinematic enough, whatever. Yeah, understand.
Akshay: Hmm.
Ananya: Finish. Yeah. Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: Yep, yep, yep, correct, correct, yeah. Because I had written that down first as an ordeal too and then I cancelled it so it makes sense that it's a sequence.
Akshay: Cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But what amazes me that you know so much of the plot the audience already can preempt. Right? Like it's not like ⁓ my god. I think that the big twist in the end was the final nail in the coffin, which I think we you weren't expecting. ⁓ But the fact that they spent and I looked at this that from the moment he was killed in the first half to him remembering Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: Then I also liked the moment where they are on set and the line is like, bhaag and he's like, kitna bhaago and he's like, kitna ganda laaye hai and the assistant director is like, achha main ne likha hai par And the point is that, you know, we've been on film sets so we know this Even your most production type ka person is trying to be creative Right? Sab ko creative banna hai Hmm.
Akshay: Hm. Mm.
Ananya: Yeah.
Akshay: and seeing Arjun Rampal and getting all his memory. That's a 30-minute long sequence. But they don't care. You know? It was like as long as the journey is fun, tight, root, rooted in the world, and rooted to the characters. And again, it's so much of his like his character realizing, him making the other character realize. Like, there's very little new information for the audience coming in. It's again almost like a how Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: Hmmmm I have a creative contribution. No one is willing to admit that I'm not creative, I'm happy to deal with logistics. So they have really tapped that emotion ⁓ that everyone is a shadow creator. So that's also very taken from the world from an emotional point of view. Then ⁓ also this bit where, what do call it? ⁓ they are at the film premiere and they talk about like good news though, good news though.
Akshay: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ananya: I guess, yeah. fun.
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: Hmmmm
Akshay: are they gonna do this? So I think that's a that's a great screenwriting tip that I feel like it make us invest in your character so much that we really want to see how this plays out.
Ananya: Yeah, exactly. It's not what. And Rajesh Kapoor goes like, haan best actor to mujhe hi milega. They've tapped into the self, the self-importance of actors, which is again a conflict very, very true to the world. That ye hi hota hai. Within this world. So lots of great world building there. Then ⁓ another moment of conflict is when he burns his back after rescuing Deepika Padukone and Shreyas Talpade is like, be grateful it's not your face. Yeah, exactly, exactly. And for that you just need to create a phenomenal character and cast Shah Rukh Khan when he looked like that.
Akshay: So Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, totally. Yeah. I think so, yeah. It's SRK. So much of the movie is SRK, no? And such a sporty actor because like so much like he's like taking jokes on himself. He's just being so goofy. And just that's only I feel only a SRK can do.
Ananya: The Sherlock, yeah. Yeah.
Akshay: Mm. Hmm.
Ananya: because an actor's face is their currency in this world. So again, conflict taken from the world. So very well done in terms of even picking up these moments from the world. Snoopy, ⁓
Akshay: Yeah, yeah, mm.
Ananya: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I even remember watching Pathan or Jawan, which is the one with Deepika, I don't know. Same type. Patan, yeah. And you were there, he acts his age, right? Like, kind of. And he, again, he's flirting with Deepika Padukone and stuff. But only he manages to make it not creepy. Like, it is a Shah Rukh Khan thing. I don't think anyone else can pull this off.
Akshay: Ha but hand. Full the moment everything in the movie again comes heavily from the world, right? Like the fact that there are junior artists ⁓ waiting to be picked up by the guy for their daily job job, you know. ⁓ and she has like I've signed us up, so like you know, they become these Tola Kwa the fleevalas, and just like you know, s waiting all day around the studio a lot because back in the day this used to happen, like this big studio was there.
Ananya: from the world,
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: Yeah, yeah.
Akshay: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ananya: Hmm. Yeah.
Akshay: It is a shadakhan thing. Yeah, yeah. I think so too. Same.
Ananya: Hmm.
Akshay: And like, you know, people would have just be roaming around, like everybody would be sort of like an equ not an equal, but like you'd be at like just a like touch-away distance distance from your main celebrities. and the fact that in the second half, this big studio is now in ruins. ⁓ again, very telling of what the studio system used to be because like, you know, there are a lot of these ruined studios in in and around Bombay. Like in in Malad you'll find one, and like, you know, in Andhiri there is one. And
Ananya: I had such a big smile on my face watching this film. It was like my face wasn't big enough for this smile.
Akshay: You had the Shantipriya smile on your face.
Ananya: Yeah. I look scary doing it ⁓ Yeah. Cool. Let's go to theme next. What is the theme of your film? The theme of your film is, well, the whole reason you became an artist. We as artists have something to say about the world. We have lots of opinions and we believe the world needs to be a certain way. And there are certain rules or certain manners of being which one must embody in order to exist. And your theme is how you Yeah. Hmm.
Akshay: Now that we work in this industry, I now finally appreciated the realness of these things, right? Because when I saw this movie back in the day, my first question was like, how is the studio ruined lot not touched? You know, like a globe, nobody has come fixed it. But now I know that's the truth. Like if it's a bit a disputed property, fire was here, nobody will come and touch it. You know? It's just gonna be.
Ananya: Yeah. Hmm. Hmm. portray that in a film. It is in a film essentially posed as a dramatic question. It is you ask a question in front and center to your audience and whether your character and how that character answers your question determines your theme. So over here, I believe the theme is very simple. It is until when should justice be pursued? Right? It's almost like Bhoot. to the tear. And superstition.
Akshay: Superstition, yeah. Ghost haunt, whatever, you know. ⁓
Ananya: Yeah. This industry love... Every first day's shot is a Murat shot. So this industry runs on superstition. So burnt and bad luck, there's no way anyone's touching it.
Akshay: More at shot. Yeah. Yeah, so like so again and now I appreciated that, you know, that this can happen. And like I used to also wonder that how does Arjun Rampal get away with this, right? Like he literally committed murder and now he's properly fallen fine. But I feel like now I just know like people like might do a like corrupt amoral shit all the time in their life, you know. ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. I had a I don't know very... karma exist? ⁓
Ananya: Yeah. is Yeah, yeah, exactly, Right? Like, how long should you keep pursuing justice? Like, either you reincarnate and you pursue justice, or you become a ghost and you pursue justice? Like, both? Yeah, the ghost. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So you don't stop like justice needs to be pursued.
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Very much like Boot. Yeah, I didn't make that connection. Nice.
Ananya: Yeah. Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. In this case both happened. Like she was she came back as a ghost. Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Akshay: So it just now felt too real to me that these moments existed. And the only unbelievable thing, which was that he's made millions in Hollywood as a producer. Like that I don't buy. I will believe in reincarnation. But
Ananya: Yeah. hahahahah ⁓
Akshay: Yeah. But I think one good thing was that they haven't stated the question at all in the movie. ⁓ Which is so different than other films, right? Like where your dramatic question is posed to your characters or to your audience. ⁓ but I think it's not stated, but it's still part of the subtext, right? Like him wanting to avenge her, is part of that. Like he wants justice and I will go to any extent to do that.
Ananya: Mm-hmm. Yeah. ⁓ yeah. Yeah.
Akshay: So yeah, great world building for sure. Like like even the smaller movements like ye Junior Artist, ⁓ the Shikapune fake all that stuff is so good.
Ananya: Definitely. Even depicting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, that. Exactly. And that's a character thing, right? Because they've created a character who doesn't hesitate at any point. Even when he realises that, okay, I am a reincarnation of Om Prakash Makhi Ja, he's not like, ⁓ who's going to believe me? He immediately says, no, I have to pursue this. So for him, it is not even a question. But others ask that, are you mad? Like, who's going to believe this story? Hmm... Let see... Good. And Deepika Padukone's main conflict, Shanti Priya's main conflict that she's pregnant and like a pregnant actress or married actress and then a pregnant actress has no value, no commercial value. Again, big, true to the times.
Akshay: Yeah. ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah yeah totally. And the world. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓
Ananya: The world, yeah, two times in the world, exactly. Let's go into dialogue next. Yeah. Oh, man, what a joy this dialogue was. Exactly. So I want to talk about the technique of foreshadowing in dialogue, where you hint that something is going to happen and then you do. One is where he's talking to his mother.
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: So they've pursued the question, they've asked the question not directly from the characters mouth but from the protagonist mouth but from the other characters. So given that both parts exist, the question is posed. It is just through two different mouthpieces.
Akshay: Yeah. Man, I'm so excited. Yeah. Hmm. Hmm. Yeah.
Ananya: Cool. Okay, I need a break.
Akshay: Yeah yeah yeah. This Bombay weather is so weird. Like it's lovely, like it's nicely windy and breezy. But it makes you feel hot and cold at the same time. I've constantly been like doing AC on off on off.
Ananya: And he's like, you know, with Om Prakash Makhi Jaa naam ke saath, I will die a junior artist, just like my dad. And he does die a junior artist. So again, relevant to the scene because they're talking about the name, but also it is foreshadowing. So organic plus foreshadowing. Audiences in on the joke. Another thing I want to talk about is status, right? Yeah. Mmhmm. Yeah. Hmm.
Akshay: Yeah, it's hot and it's cold.
Ananya: and you're...
Akshay: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's ⁓ ⁓
Ananya: And you mentioned This line where mom was just like, I would have been Madhubala if I wasn't pregnant with you. And she says this other line, Madhu ⁓ ne bhi theek thak sambhal liya. So she doesn't call her Madhubala. That respect is not there. So this is a thing of status. In her head, she is at Madhubala's level. And they have kept that in mind, the first name basis. First name basis is someone you are familiar with. Awesome.
Akshay: Ha ha. Plus our guest conversation.
Ananya: ⁓ yeah. So you know what we could also do at some point, which once we have like 10 guest conversations, after that, if we've really cracked that format, those can also go behind a paywall, the guest conversations, for example. So she's like, haa Madhu ne bhi theek, like we are toh friends na Madhu aur main. So that dialogue too reveals status of the character. That how do they think, in which world do they exist in their head, who do they think they are.
Akshay: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Hmm. Correct. Yeah. So
Ananya: be seen.
Akshay: Hmm. Yeah. And it's a very important technique for your side characters, but especially when they don't have a lot of character layering, this is where good dialogue comes into play. That each character, at least in their head, has to feel a certain way. And how do you put that out? Like in their heads they have to feel scared. In their heads, they have to feel entitled. In their heads, they have to feel they're superior or inferior. So each of those decisions will will inform your dialogue writing for that character.
Ananya: Then. ⁓
Akshay: Good no a chiba there. It shouldn't be like
Ananya: Yeah, yeah, yeah. ⁓ yeah, yeah. Yeah. And recording 25 episodes has given me the conviction, the confidence that we will follow through on our idea. Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah, yeah, correct, correct.
Ananya: I much time. ⁓
Akshay: Yeah, yeah.
Ananya: Exactly.
Akshay: Do.
Ananya: For sure, because to us they are side characters and but in their life story, they are the main characters. So they have all of them. So... Then, ⁓ of course, there is the important pass of the movie pass. I want to say, because movie bits have to be incorporated everywhere in the dialogue here too. So for example, when... ⁓ What do you call it? They're doing the speech, the Batli Award speech and he first says the... I was like, we have a sip of water.
Akshay: Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Yeah, totally. Mm. Mm.
Ananya: you Okay. Ready? lines which are complicated and they're like okay take two so again same things you know and creeps into your vocabulary. then when um
Akshay: Let's do
Ananya: Your face froze for a second. It just happens to be everywhere. But I'm sure it's recording on your end. It just freezes on my end for like three seconds, so then, cool. Shall we go into scenes and sequences next?
Akshay: ⁓ yeah. Yeah. ⁓ Yeah, yeah. ⁓ yeah. Even the way like he he's on walkie talkie, ⁓ with ⁓ or like not ⁓ he's on a phone with Shreya Stalpade in the second half. He says ten four and he hangs up. ⁓ yeah. So again like it's it's because you've been on film set and that's how, you know, now ADs talk to each other. ⁓ So it's part of the vocab.
Ananya: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Akshay: Let's do it.
Ananya: The first scene I want to talk about is the opening shot of the film, right? Which is the fact that you are thrown front and center on a studio lot into a sound studio where they are recording a song. And you are thrown into the world of cinema. Yeah. Yeah. So when Deepika is telling Shreyas Talpade and Shahrukh Khan not to fight, she goes, I'll cut it, cut it, cut it. Like it's again that film pass coming through. So because this is the world of your film that has to come into your dialogue. So you have to do a film pass over here for this.
Akshay: ⁓ Yeah, hmm, very cool.
Ananya: And this is what the movie promises, right? A voyeuristic view into the world of cinema. Not even voyeuristic. You are right there. You are watching it from the... like as the character. So they meet the audience expectations right off the bat. You have Rishi Kapoor, a young Rishi Kapoor doing his song. You have the whole sense of all the junior artists around them. You're in the studio. So what I love is you don't waste a moment getting into the world of...
Akshay: Death, yeah.
Ananya: Then one more foreshadowing technique, one more foreshadowing dialogue which is when Shah Rukh Khan is drunk and he's talking to Deepika Padukone in his head and he's like, this time I'm letting Arjun Rampal go but what another birth? And then it's another birth. So good! So good!
Akshay: ⁓ Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ananya: the movie. Meeting audience expectations right off the bat.
Akshay: Yeah, totally.
Ananya: Hmm.
Akshay: Layering is everything in dialogue. ⁓ We spoke about the movie pass. I also think in the first half of the film, there's some they've done a little bit of Tapori Bombay language pass. ⁓ so ⁓ when you know they're in the post in front of the Shanti Priya's poster and ⁓ Kiran Kher's character says one day even your "thobda" will be on a poser. This is such Bombay slang language, right? ⁓
Ananya: Yeah.
Akshay: And there's so many things the opening sequence does. ⁓ do you have any point on the opening sequence? Okay. So, like the fact that Shah Rukh Khan's character, Om Prakash is in the audience, enjoying this. So, firstly, it ⁓ immediately tells us that he is like just like us, enjoying the sequence. So we get a direct perspective shot of this movie, right? Like, you know that this this is at the lens we'll be looking the movie at. Like
Ananya: You go ahead. Hmm. Yeah. Boom business. Yeah. Hmm.
Akshay: ⁓ And ⁓ in the opening scene when ⁓ the the dress guy, the dress kaka is saying ki ⁓ satak raha hai with the jacket. Again "satak" is such a bombay thing. And I think they do it a lot throughout the first half of the movie because that is the language people talk in Bombay, you know? It's so it's so fluent, it's so character of Bombay slang. ⁓ So I think that was a great Tapori pass it in the first half. this is gonna celebrate Bollywood. ⁓ This is gonna celebrate this world. And there is a moment in the song where Shah Rukh Khan's character Om Prakash himself imagines himself to be this Rishi Kapoor's character. What it does is that immediately tells what this character's dream and is. ⁓ And this is a important ⁓ note in this in a screenplay that your audience should know what your character wants. ⁓
Ananya: Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, talk, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Akshay: ⁓ In the second half, they've done something very similar where this Om Prakash's character and Om Kapoor's character is so elitist, right? Like he will try and speak in English and like look down, like not look down, but doesn't use Hindi words very colloquially in his off-screen life, right? So ⁓ wherever they have a big Hindi word, they sort of substitute with like an English word also to like for him to pad it up.
Ananya: I'm not sure. Hmm.
Akshay: And they spend no time wasting it. Like it's literally the first scene of the movie, you know, okay, because it has to be very clear to the audience what is the goal or what is the what the what is the main want of your protagonist. Otherwise they will not care about how much ever you can try and paint the world, paint like characters, but unless and until they come to know what the want is, you will not like fully be invested in the movie.
Ananya: Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Akshay: So when he says ⁓ "shaks," he also uses the English word "actress." It's repeated because shaks for him is not normal. And ⁓ as somebody like we also like write in so much in Hindi, but sometimes when we are caught in that word, we try and put an English word to it. ⁓ so they've tried to do that with Om Kapoor's character. Even when he says ⁓ sh-sh-shraddhanjali, ⁓ because again, shradhanjali is not a word he normally uses in his life. ⁓ And the fact that they do it right off the bat is amazing. And and I just realized while we were talking that they chose the song Om Shanti Om which is the title of the movie. But also the song is from the movie Karz, which is heavily referenced in the movie itself, firstly. And also like a lot of the plot is from Karz, which is the reincarnation and like all that. So I thought it was ⁓ good ⁓
Ananya: Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. Nom Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. Hmm. because yeah. Mm-hmm.
Akshay: So these small, small things again accentuate all your dialogue work so much. And one thing ⁓ which is great, ⁓ one technique which comes in great for dialogue work is the technique of repetition. ⁓ it creates the same humor, the same conflict, the same emotion, the same drama, or the same sort of like release. For your writers to be aware and also taking the audience in on this. Like nobody can tell you later on that ⁓ it's a copy Karz. I think they turned at one more point in the movie where ⁓ in the second half when Papu's character is telling what do you think you're doing? So I think that was a great choice, like you know, just calling it out
Ananya: Yeah. Yeah Yep. because key copy is like, we have acknowledged it. Hmm. Yeah. Hmm.
Akshay: And I think they've done this with two dialogues in the movie. One is when whenever he's talking to Shanti Priya, Omprakar says, I hope you're not getting bored." So when like he's either talking to her virtually in front of her poster and it actually plays out in real life and he's talking her and he asks ⁓ that and she's like no, not at all. So ⁓ again, his that dialogue is so important because you have to establish this is his relationship with this character. yourself before anybody can call you out on this.
Ananya: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And this begs the question, right, of what lines do you draw when it comes to inspiration, vis-a-vis, you know, actual adaptations? Because Karz is also kind of a remake of that movie you and I saw during Covid, which was Madhumati. So, I think it is one story just being retold for the generation for which it's being made, right?
Akshay: Mm. Yeah.
Ananya: Hmm.
Akshay: Madumati Yeah, yeah. In real life and in his head. So ⁓ because Dream. Yeah. Yeah. And it's again important for your audience to register the same information again. Like you can't have five dialogues and justify that ⁓ this is also what you mean, this is also what you mean, this is also what you mean. But if it's just one dialogue which can say this you mean to me throughout this, that's great. And Yeah.
Ananya: So he's getting to live out his dream almost. That's also how you get to see it. Almost like A Star is Born, which is done so many times over, though that is the same movie. I think here we're just not calling it that, but the bones of the film are the same. Mmm.
Akshay: Bones of the film are the same, but like again, so much of the world changes. Like at least Madhumati and this film has no realization at all. Like there's no similarity apart from the very broad strokes. ⁓ the world is completely I haven't seen cards, so I don't know how much is actually there. ⁓ but ⁓ I feel there's enough originality to save to make it seem that ⁓ it's not a complete like ripoff for sure. Yeah.
Ananya: Yeah. course. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Akshay: What the similar thing they have done with Shanti Priya's key dialogue, which is "ek chtuki sindoor..." So this is used to introduce Shanti Priya in her on-screen life. In her on-screen avatar. She uses this when she's trying to convince Arjun Rampal of her deserving nature as his wife. Even in the reincarnated life, that's the dialogue they're trying to create. Because that's her identity, right? Like
Ananya: Yeah, even I haven't seen the cards, yeah. Hmm. Hmm. Yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. And rip-off is not the word I'll use. I'll just say it's using the same story, just telling it for the way the generation needs to be told that story. Like, Madhumati was a painful watch for us, right? Like, but my parents really enjoyed it. Like, my mom remembers it vividly. But that's also the kind of storytelling that was relevant to that time. And now we have grown as an audience in terms of what we consume.
Akshay: Sure, yeah. ⁓
Ananya: Yeah.
Akshay: Total. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally.
Ananya: Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah.
Ananya: Yeah
Akshay: You can't give her multiple personality traits, multiple ⁓ dialogue things. It's just that one good dialogue you give her and it'll continue for all her life. And it's a great reminder to audience, ⁓ that guys are trying to recreate Shantipriya, it's just simple. Keep it simple, it will land. Yeah, yeah.
Ananya: NNNN
Akshay: Hmm. Yeah.
Ananya: Like we are used to more production design, more gags, technology has evolved. Because technology has evolved, our tastes have evolved. But this story in its basest form, we as humans are telling the same story, right? Overall, that's the whole point of Hero with a Thousand Faces and stuff. There is one monomyth. There's a singular story. So how can this story be told for us?
Akshay: ⁓
Ananya: Hmm, yeah. Yeah. Land. Yes. Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. That is all I have on dialogue. Yeah.
Ananya: That is all I have on Om Shanti Om.
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, same, same. ⁓
Ananya: Yes. ⁓ my God, I'm reinvigorated. I feel like I enjoyed Bollywood again after such a long time. Like, I'm actually excited about the movies. I feel like there might be merit to a career in Bollywood.
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: Is the whole point of making Om Shanti Om, think. Like how can we get to consume the same thing?
Akshay: Yeah. And you know what that famous line is, no? Like like young writers suffer from this problem that, ⁓ each story has been told before, but it's not been told by you. So I think and this is this is a such a Farah Khan movie, right? Like you can't take that stamp off of it. So ⁓ that way it's totally worth it. See this thing. Yeah.
Ananya: From a creative perspective, you know, like that you can have fun, you're not just writing like boring murder mysteries and kidnapping and fighting all of that. I just want to write something fun. I want to have people have fun while making their films while writing the films. We all need to be laughing. Like if I wanted to like ⁓ a boring job, I'd go back to Deloitte, right? Like if I wanted to be angry all the time, I'd do that. But by you. Yeah. Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: ⁓ my god, yes. Yes, no no
Akshay: Yeah.
Ananya: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I loved it. I'm glad that she was the one who told it for our generation.
Akshay: Yes, yes. Am I frozen for you? Yeah.
Ananya: No
Akshay: Yeah.
Ananya: This this is why! This film is an embodiment of the reason we choose to be creatives in our lives. To have fun, to enjoy that energy.
Akshay: You are frozen for me.
Ananya: ⁓ man.
Akshay: I think this is the new upgrade glitch they have done because Pele Riverside. Yeah. Yeah. And totally like this movie feels like such a good representation of who made it, right? Like this is like like how much ever I know Mayur as a writer, he says he's loved Bollywood all his life. So and it shows like right, like we are talking about as this is a different pass, that is a different pass. For all you know, this is this first pass. You know, like because
Ananya: ⁓ Yeah. No, that's how. No.
Akshay: What do I do? Do you wanna stop recording and
Ananya: Yeah. Yeah, let's stop this and both of us will rejoin.
Akshay: Okay.
Ananya: Hmm... She was... Yeah. Boss, yeah, it just came naturally to him. Yeah.
Akshay: Naturally to him. So that just makes all the sense that you should be able to write what you want to write, you should be able to make what you may want to make and have a great time.
Ananya: Yeah. Yeah. doing it exactly. Exactly. Well, thank you everyone for watching and we hope that our excitement has transmitted to you and you're so excited to go back and write your script, not feeling jaded, not feeling skeptical, not wanting to bang your head against the wall because this is a phenomenal creative journey if we allow it to be one barring all systemic issues around it. Anyway.
Akshay: Mm-hmm.
Ananya: So you know the drill, like, share, subscribe, comment with your questions, recommendations, suggestions, and we will get to it in our next or future episodes of the Breakdown Besties Podcast. Bye. ⁓
Akshay: Bye.
Ananya: Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of the Breakdown Besties Podcast. I'm Ananya. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Akshay: Yeah, that's too good, yeah.
Ananya: Yeah, I really enjoyed all the songs. Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. Like for a change I didn't forward them. You know, like fully Yeah, fully sat through them. And again, like the songs are also ensued with so much character which like really like makes you want to watch them. set.
Ananya: And we are your breakdown besties. Together, we have more than 14 years of experience writing for shows like Mismatch, Wedding.com, Ishkin the Air, Rana Naidu, Grahan, Inside Edge, and a host of others that have gotten stuck in development hell, but will hopefully see the light of day one day. With the Breakdown Besties podcast, Hmm. Yeah, I was waiting for them. Yeah. ⁓ for sure. Yeah. Yeah, we will have to hire someone I'm telling you at some point. We are going to go mad. Because our ambitions are very big. Yeah. Yeah, I was thinking let's do a product and bring some revenue in before like I don't mind paying for it now. Like that's not a problem. Yeah, yeah. And just bringing all the industry faces and everything.
Akshay: Yeah, we will have to. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's so much fan service at the same time, like also ⁓ like giving yourself like a pat on the back, like, ⁓ you
Ananya: Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. We can look start looking, ⁓ I have no problem. ⁓ b if we want to hire we can.
Ananya: Yeah, exactly,
Akshay: Huh. Huh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: Great. Cool. ⁓ But if the revenue stream is little small, that also like we have a small audience. So we have to figure out what revenue stream will like pay for things and so we'll brainstorm that also with Jen. Like in terms of, you know, what is our goal? Like we don't want to make money for the sake of making money, right? That is currently not our goal with this. Our goal is to recoup our expenses and now it would be to hire someone. Do you want to just see the next scene you have?
Akshay: Yeah. Okay. ⁓ I wanna talk about the technique of putting Easter eggs in your film. Especially when it's a period film or a film which has the audience world really aware w or especially where the wor especially where the audience is really aware of the world. You know, so like a famous incident which has happened or something like that. Fair. Yeah. Yeah. Hm. Huh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: Yeah
Akshay: And so you try and put like small, small clues throughout the film, or just like fun trivia sort of things, just so that you know your audience can feel like, ⁓ hey, this happened, you know, just like just like ⁓ it's almost like like a small happy bubble which you get. Like, ⁓ like see they did this, or like they told us something interesting. So ⁓ stuff like you know Suraj Barjatiya outside listening, saying ki Yeah, correct.
Ananya: And then we'll have to discuss scope of hiring them. Like, you know, so like, what do we want to do? And then and then if you're hiring someone, then it should be for I think visual creatives, right? Essentially. So Instagram reels and the thumbnails and stuff, especially if you're going to up the thumbnails and
Akshay: Huh. Yeah, yeah.
Ananya: Hmm. Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: Yeah. Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. Like full social media they can be able to take care of. Pyaar mein no sorry, no thank you. And he's like making notes of this. Or ⁓ you know, in the opening time when he's like, I'm going Govinda Ahuja from Virar, and then they take out Ahuja out of your name. So just like so you sort of understand a little bit more about this world, but at the same time, just like small nuggets so that people can be like, ⁓ this is a very real film at the same time. It doesn't feel like just make-believe. ⁓
Ananya: Exactly and SEO like the descriptions, captions like all of that. Yeah. Yeah.
Akshay: Huh. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Essentially. Huh. Correct. Yeah. Like even I would I wouldn't mind offloading the uploading duty also to them. Like of all these creatives. Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: Yeah... Aww... Yeah, yeah, creatives. yeah. Exactly. Exactly. It should have to be an intern. Intern Shala types. Well, yeah. Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah.
Ananya: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. I remember like Mrs. Maisel used to do a lot of these drop ins of like dialogue like, ⁓ are you like taking like ⁓ the vaccine from salk or just, you know, ⁓ like that, which you almost just feel like such periodic detail is like good detail.
Ananya: and
Akshay: Because essentially we have three reels a week right now, you know. ⁓ three reels a week. ⁓ and I think four videos you put out, you know, like our YouTube videos, I think. Three are four. Like huh. So because SEO was saying captions me. So that's what they'll be doing. and we can also
Ananya: Yeah. Yeah, For sure. The funniest one was the darkest one in Maisel, I remember, was that... Here, this is a card for my therapist. My friend Sylvia Plath went to her. ⁓
Akshay: I remember this, yeah. think about broadening the scope to like them editing the podcast also and putting the clips also. You know? But I think I feel like maybe like if we can get one person to do starting maintenance ⁓ broaden ho sakta heads, you know? Huh.
Ananya: ⁓ Yeah. ⁓ absolutely. Hmm. Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. So I think this film is full of that. A lot of them. I'm pretty sure I don't know a lot of them. ⁓ but ⁓ it's like good whatever I could guess and identify was really cool.
Ananya: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. And immediately though, we won't find the right fit. We'll have to cycle through a few people. Yeah,
Akshay: Yeah. ⁓ now j I just remember one more when ⁓ she says no ⁓ prakash's mom that ⁓ just yeah. And she still hasn't found so she now edits herself. She's like, I'm full-time, so I can do it now. And I feel she said it's You know, like because like like like they would take her to through like the ⁓
Ananya: yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah another Hmm. Yeah.
Akshay: ⁓ Go on, go on.
Ananya: Another technique I wanted to talk about is the rule of three combined with a mini arc. So essentially we spoke about a rule of three where if you want to emphasize something, you say it three times, right? Because it builds recall value and with each time it should be building. In this film, they've taken that a step further by creating a mini arc out of it, which has proper consequences. For example, first you have the bit where you're at the award show. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Akshay: Software, he see I tried to do this but this wasn't happening, which you were telling me, blah blah blah blah blah. So she was like, Okay, now I understood to take care. And she's like, Now because I'm full time into this, so I don't mind, you know.
Ananya: Hmmmm Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's good.
Akshay: Yeah. Good egg.
Ananya: a different thing.
Akshay: But also like her concepts are also like more un like more universal. Like more people might be interested to like save money, you know, like it's money. So yeah. Because she's also not been able to launch her offer yet. ⁓ because for ⁓ she needs to get the SEBI registration thing and st all that. Yeah. So but she's also not not sure what to put out. So she's also brainstorming an offer only, Abby.
Ananya: And Rajesh Kapoor is being interviewed and they're like, good news kabhi milega, good news kabhi milega. And he's just like, arey, I'm going to win best actor award. And his wife is like, no you idiot, they're asking about the baby. They're like, haan haan wo bhi jaldhi milega. ⁓ Then you go to outside of Rajesh Kapoor's house, where the awards are, after the awards. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly, exactly, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I'll be... huh... huh... huh... this is more complex, Thank Shah Rukh Khan is saying that one day I will live in this house and you know like, kharid lunga jabhi mai superstar ban jaunga and all of that. And then finally you have the closing of the arc when Shah Rukh Khan is blasted out of the burning studio lot and he ends up in front of Rajesh Kapoor's car as he is driving his wife to the hospital because she's in labour to give birth. So what starts off as a joke Right, yeah. Yeah, that is... But I'm still feeling good about that private podcast idea. Like, excitement hasn't gone. So, yeah.
Akshay: Yeah, same. I'm also feeling very good. Yeah, correct. Correct. And also like you know how like YouTube has a members only thing? So it's a it's a version of that. So it's a version of that, right? Like that doing a private podcast where full revenue just can come to us. Yeah. Sure. Huh, yeah.
Ananya: Yeah, yeah, but they take 30 % yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. also ends up having such consequences overall for the film, major consequences. But even in minor consequences, they've done it with the Manoj Kumar bit where this Shreyas Talpade steals Manoj Kumar's tickets for the movie premiere. Then you have a cut of Manoj Kumar trying to convince the guards ki bhai main Manoj Kumar hu, mera driving license dekh. And then finally they get pulled out of the premiere Exactly, exactly. We'll have some platform fee somewhere, wherever it is. But yeah, it still won't be as high as 30%. 30 % is insane. So yeah, we'll see. We'll see. We'll figure out the whole funnel, the landing page.
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Insane. ⁓ Yeah.
Ananya: because of not being recognized as not Manoj Kumar, they were imposters. So even there, what started off as a gag has full arcs and consequences. It's an act one, act two, act three, a beginning, middle and end to it. So it is very well done. Even with Shanti Priya's ghost in the second half. It is first that the portrait catches on fire even though the electricals aren't working. The second is that a part of the Jhumar falls off of... Uhhh...
Akshay: Yeah.
Ananya: 905 okay ⁓
Akshay: Let us do.
Ananya: Okay.
Akshay: And yeah.
Ananya: Okay.
Akshay: Yeah. ⁓ but muting everything. Huh huh.
Ananya: Ready? Cool. Okay. Hello everyone and welcome to episode number 25 of the Breakdown Besties podcast. I'm Ananya. breaks or something happens during the music launch. And then finally she reveals herself and the Jhumar comes down. This doesn't have an act one, act two, act three. This is simply escalation. But it is again a rule of three being used. So very well.
Akshay: Hmm. I'm Akshay.
Ananya: And we are your Breakdown Besties. Combined, we have more than 14 years of experience writing for shows like Mismatched, Wedding.con, Rana Naidu, Inside Edge, Grahan and a host of others that have gotten stuck in development hell but will hopefully see the light of day one day. With the Breakdown Besties podcast, our goal is to give you an authentic film school experience right from the comfort of your home.
Akshay: Yeah. That's great. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like the I feel like the rule of three comes into play when you're having a mini arc. Like in the space of it's like beginning, middle, end. Like that's the key. Like you know, each of those moments have to escalate a little bit in the story and so that you have like a good conclusion to the arc. Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: Hmm. where what we do is look at the screenwriting techniques used in our most iconic Bollywood films and break them down, see what makes them work and how can we emulate them and recreate them to make our own scripts and films iconic. And this is episode number 25. ⁓ Oh my ⁓ One year ago, Akshay and I were like brainstorming. Okay, what should we do? Like we want to do something creative outside of like... Yeah. Exactly,
Akshay: ⁓ go on go on. Okay. I wanna talk about ⁓ a mirror scene. ⁓ The technique of a mirror scene. You do that. A mirror scene is when a character is put in one situation and in this in later part of the movie where the same situation the character is put in again.
Ananya: Hmm.
Akshay: Ha ha.
Ananya: writing shows and doing something that actually gives back to the film community and wow one year later we actually made it happen yeah
Akshay: What a ride. Yeah. What a ride. Like I remember the previous episode we uploaded, like, ⁓ we have these many subscribers who are watching. But by the time we uploaded them, I'm like, ⁓ we've already increased our subscription. Yeah. ⁓ so that's pretty cool that everybody's like on this journey with us. Or somebody else around the character is put in that situation and you know how they differently react. The reason you do this is because to show how the rel ⁓ The reason you do this is to show what sort of progression our character has gone through, what is the arc they are on. one mirror scene which comes clearly to my mind, and I think to the audience and to the characters themselves is the speech scene where
Ananya: Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, 50 subscribers more, yeah! Nice. Hmm. Absolutely. Thank you so much for coming on this journey with us. ⁓ honestly, the podcast exists because y'all make it exist. Otherwise we would be talking into the void, which we do. But anyway, it's called having imaginary sense. exactly. Cool. Hmm.
Akshay: Sharuk Khan's character in the first half, Om Prakash Makija, imagines what it would be to like a win a Filmfare Award and he stages this full speech. And in the second half of the film where he's born as a superstar, Om Kapoor, he actually does win an Filmfare Award for Best Actor. And he gives the same speech again. Which is like now his consciousness is coming back to like or like he's trying to recall memories happening for him. ⁓ so I thought that was a great technique they used. Yeah. Yeah. It's in our rooms in private.
Ananya: Hmm. Yeah. And because this is our 25th episode, we wanted to do a film which is very close to the hearts of everyone, which is undeniable. So it had to be, Om Shanti Om. Written by Mushtaq Sheikh, Farah Khan and Mayur Puri. ⁓ Oh my God, I had so much fun watching it. Hmm.
Akshay: And very obviously called it out like this is a mirror. This is a mirror of his past life.
Ananya: Yeah, yeah, Hmm. Absolutely. And to add to that, One mirror scene is when, which shows like character growth is when he is Om Kapoor and he's doing the film with the Gujarati father son duo. And in the start, he's... ⁓ that's Mayur.
Akshay: What a joyride this movie was. You know, like I remember very clearly watching the movie back in the time. And I remember like it used to come a lot in like on television. And it used to be I remember we had that time where we had those five in one DVDs, you know, pirated movies back in the day. And my cousin, he knew the film were bat him line by line. Not just of like say Sharukh or like somebody, but every background extras line he knew.
Ananya: Yeah.
Akshay: ⁓
Ananya: Mm-hmm.
Akshay: You know, that's my own. You
Ananya: Uhhh...
Akshay: The director is the Mayod the junior boy, the actual director. Yeah.
Ananya: I love it, I love it. ⁓ I love it, I love it. Okay, great. So Shah SRK over there, just like, I just give one take, you know, and then he changes everything for his, you know, ⁓ He's like, no, no, we have to do a song, make it dard e disco, all of that. Wow.
Akshay: Like so and I get it, like these are like it was a really fun film. So yeah.
Ananya: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The dialogues are iconic. Everything is iconic about it. And more than anything, I feel like they must have had so much fun creating the film. Like, there's that energy which is infused with, sabko maza aaya.
Akshay: Yeah.
Ananya: And then later you have a mirror scene. Once he's realized that he was actually Om Prakash Makija, he was a struggling artist and he should really value who he is and what privileges he has in this life. He does, he goes back to that set and he does that disabled person ⁓ And he just says that, he also says that, you know, I think I could do better. Let's do one more take. And that shows growth. So ⁓ situations, but different reactions.
Akshay: I think it's mad props to like Farah Khan for doing this. Because even in the interviews I see of hers, she says that you know what I did? I just went to the filmfare awards, the real one, and just put my camera there. You know? ⁓ And I'm like, You got away this because you're Farah Khan, right? Like it's amazing. Like how she used her position in such a good way. ⁓
Ananya: Yeah. Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally.
Ananya: I can't, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, and being a likeable, fun person just takes you places, dude. Like, you don't need to be the best at your craft or anything. Like, you just need to be a good person. Yeah. Then I want to talk about coincidence, which is what we chatted about briefly, which is where coincidences are something we don't allow in films. Coincidences are too convenient. They make things easy for your characters. And the whole point of a story engine is conflict and ease is the opposite of conflict. So you can't have that within your films. But we allow coincidences.
Akshay: Yeah. Seriously. Yeah. Yeah. And this movie to craft is also top notch.
Ananya: ⁓ god, it's so tight. Everything is so tight. I'm just like, ⁓ no, nothing really wasted.
Akshay: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally.
Ananya: only and only when under one exception they make things worse for your character and over here the coincidence is that Shahrukh Khan happens to be there when Arjun Rampal is plotting Deepika Padukone's death and he overhears everything but we allow that because that results ultimately in Shahrukh Khan's death that coincidence makes it Great. without further ado, though we have done about 10 minutes of ado, let us get into the logline of the film. Okay. So what is your logline? Your logline is your film's guiding light. When you're writing your script and you're on page number 56 and you're writing a scene or a dialogue and you're confused, like, why is this even in the script? Why did I put it in here?
Akshay: Hm.
Ananya: worse for your character. So it's okay to be there. And also while it is a coincidence, yes, that because the studio lot is so big and that they happen to be on the same like sound studio, it is also within the world of the film. Like you have to contain your characters to these spaces, right? To keep it tonally correct, like tonally relevant and relevant to the world. So there is a minor coincidence there in the fact that they happen to be on the same like soundstage. How does contribute to the overall film? Your logline is going to tell you how it contributes. Why? Because it captures the essence of your film. There are four main components which every film needs to have in order to be successful commercially, in order to be successful as a narrative and a story. And when you whittle it down to these four elements, you are able to capture the essence of it and keep writing with
Akshay: Yeah. ⁓ ⁓
Ananya: But the fact that they're both in the studio lot, not as much. these four elements driving every scene, every piece of dialogue, every sequence and your logline captures them. What are these four elements? The first is your need or flaw, block or wound. Now this is something within the character that is stopping them. That is from achieving element number two, which is their goal. Your goal is
Akshay: Yeah, totally, totally. And I think that's the that's also the genre of the movie, right? Like you like it's a little bit about the secrets of these people and like you have to like stage these scenes a certain way because that's what the genre is, essentially. Yeah.
Ananya: Hmm. Yeah Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I'm pretty sure.
Akshay: My notes are also all over the place today.
Ananya: The whole reason we as an audience are going on this journey with you, we want to see you achieve something, go after something. So that is your film, your goal. Number three is your conflict. Your conflict is your story engine. It is an external manifestation of your internal need, want, flaw, block or wound. If your internal flaw, for example, is a coward, then the conflict that you're going to face is facing a lion No. I have three more scenes to talk about.
Akshay: Can't like you. Mm, chica, sí, mm. ⁓
Ananya: Okay, next I want to talk about the planning sequence. Over here I want to talk about two different ways in which it's done. The first is ⁓ you reveal what the plan is only for the plan to fail, right? So over here it is when they are explaining to ⁓ so that you can overcome your cowardice. And this conflict keeps driving your story because you want to see how your main character is going to come out on the other side braver, stronger, more evolved. And finally, you have stakes. Stakes are what your character will lose should they not achieve their goal. It's not simply not achieving their goal, it is taking it one level lower. All right, great. second. I want to talk about planning as a technique because in many movies we see plans being made and or plans not being made and how that is used to create tension, drama etc in the audience's mind. Over here I have noted two different planning sequences. One is when you are told the plan and the reason you are told the plan is because something is going to go wrong in the plan or during the plan. You told the plan so that the plan can fail. So I'll read out my logline of Om Shanti Om to you. A man who was killed trying to save the love of his life wants to avenge the death of his lover when he is reincarnated and recalls the truth. It is done so that it creates conflict. You know what's going to happen and can be like, ⁓ no, this is going wrong. This is when they are shooting in the studio lot in the second half with Arjun Rampal's character. And over there, Shah Rukh Khan says that, okay, Dolly is going to send a text and Arjun Rampal will go to her dressing room. And over there, Sandhya will be waiting for him as Shanti Priya. Now, as this plan is in motion,
Akshay: Yeah. Perfect. Yeah.
Ananya: Yeah. Great. I'll capture the four elements.
Akshay: I also had a very similar version. I just put maybe like adjectives like struggling artist is reborn, stuff like that. You know, that's what I did. Yeah.
Ananya: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That gives you a good sense of the world. fact, struggling artists, all of that, yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. Huh. Like reborn reincarnated as superstar. That's what like stuff like this. Yeah.
Ananya: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, ⁓ first you have the need or the limitation in this case, which is a man who was killed trying to save his love. Right? That is long, but that is his ⁓ limitation. Yeah, that's what he comes with. And that is going to stop him every step of the way. Right? That is like... ⁓ you see Dolly's mom going over there and ⁓ she is going to ruin the whole plan. So now Shahrukh Khan has to go stop her. Now this works because you know the plan and something is going wrong now. So you have the plan, ⁓ you set up what success looks like and then how the plan is going to fail. So you create conflict. ⁓ The is ⁓ not the plan.
Akshay: Hmm. Yeah. The past he comes with. Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: okay this is happening, I am scared, this is what I need to do. His goal is he wants to avenge the death of his lover. And the conflict is reincarnated and recalls the truth. Because as they keep iterating in the film, who's going to believe this story that I've been reincarnated? Who's going to believe it? So his flaw is that in the past he was killed and his lover was killed and now he needs to live with that grief. And So over here, you don't know, as you said initially, what is really going to happen. Like Shah Rukh Khan has some sort of plan, why he is casting ⁓ Sandhya, why he's got Dolly over there. And you know that something is being done to spook like Arjun Rampal But you don't know what exactly is the end goal or the culmination. So this is when you hint...
Akshay: Hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: The conflict is how will he bring that grief forward when no one is going to believe it? So how do you bring that out? So that is your need in conflict. They're not obvious in this case as they usually are in, you know, other films, for example, where it's like, okay, I'm a coward and I need to become brave and so I'm facing the lion, you know. It's not. this, because of the nature of the film also, it's not really a character flaw. It's something that happened in the past. Yeah.
Akshay: Argent. The spook also kaputt. Yeah.
Ananya: So you hint at the plan and don't reveal it because in this case you get only one shot at the plan and the plan has no choice but to work. So over here spelling it out makes no sense because much can't go wrong it has to go right. So instead the other way of creating tension is by adding suspense to it as to what the plan
Akshay: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. W happened with him. Yeah.
Ananya: And in terms of stakes, again, this is one of those films where there are no external stakes. Like ⁓ if he doesn't avenge Shanti Priya's death, then Arjun Rampal, the status quo is the status quo, right? Like nothing changes. But he has to live internally with the guilt and the truth and the memories and see how that will take a toll on his psyche, his life, his ability to live a better life. Great. actually really is. And that you only realise towards the end when you've put pieces together, you're like, okay, they're spooking him, they're spooking him and finally it'll be the ultimate spook where they recreate scene of her death. So two ways in which you can do planning sequences differently based on the outcome that you want, whether there's going to be conflict or there won't. But even in that, they have added moments of conflict.
Akshay: ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Now Do you not think, even I was while I was writing the log line, that the log line is essentially the log line for the second half of the film. Right? The first half only your climax sequence is part of your log line, which is the whole killing sequence and the murder and him trying to save her. ⁓ but I think that's the beauty of old Hindi films.
Ananya: Cool. Hmm.
Akshay: Hmm. Yeah.
Ananya: Right? Like even with Deepika Deepika Padukone's character coming ⁓ as Shanti Priya during the final climax scene, it is like Arjun Ka Rampal over there ⁓ ⁓
Akshay: Mm-hmm.
Ananya: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Akshay: It's a dub feature use when AI dub will use.
Ananya: You Yeah.
Akshay: Because I feel this is one of those films that it's really about the screenplay and the journey. Right? Like you still don't feel bored at all, even though it's so much of it a setup and like so much of it is building the character of these two people, relationship of these two people, building the world of this film. ⁓ So I think... ⁓ because I was trying to think what would be the log line for the first half, but it's...
Ananya: I've never used it, have you? Hmm.
Akshay: I don't think we can. I think it's like a distinct paid thing.
Ananya: No. No, no, I think you can. Yeah.
Akshay: Okay, okay. Hmm.
Ananya: I think you can, I don't know, never tried, yeah. Yeah.
Akshay: No we'll bet.
Ananya: No, I'm just... I think Arjun Rampal's kind of irrelevant now. Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah, totally. It has to tie into the second half. It's can't be a separate log line. But it's a good upward graph. They've shown that how could this struggling artist be in this position ⁓ having to save this woman who he loves? Yeah.
Ananya: Yeah, that was a repeat to them shanteyo Yeah. Mm hmm.
Akshay: Yeah, genuinely, exactly. Although like now with Drandar he's again a little bit in the limelight, but like still nobody like cares too much.
Ananya: Yeah. Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I'm just going to cut that scene there with the planning sequence. That's fine. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And that is one thing they've done really well within this film is there's always cause and effect. Nothing happens out of nowhere. Like even when Shah Rukh Khan is on the studio and he's over here is what Arjun Rampal is planning with Shanti Priya and he's planning to like kill her and he's taken her to the set to kill her. It's because Shah Rukh Khan was drinking there because she has rejected him.
Akshay: Ha ha ha Yeah. Okay. Hmm. I I wanna talk about ⁓ the technique of subverting the expectation. So ⁓ SRK's character in the first half, he has ⁓ Shantipriya that, ⁓ I'm a big star from the south, I'm coming to do a film here. And now they put up this whole facade of you know a fake shoot.
Ananya: Thank Hmm.
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: It's like none of it is just happens to be there. You know, there is cause and effect everywhere. Which I really like. And even if there is that happens to be there, it makes it worse for the character. So we'll get into that when we talk about scene techniques. So I think very tightly plotted film. Like we've enjoyed the scene work. The scenes are sometimes a little longer than they need to be. And you know, they've gone a little overboard like the...
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Where he's like, you know, t ⁓ battling a tiger, he's like this, whatever, quick gun, murugan, all this action he does. And you think, you like she'll get impressed. So the audience is expecting he, like, ⁓ this story will move forward, okay? And everything will go hunky dory. But this subverts his expectation because his bluff is called out. Like his ⁓ his cover is blown that, ⁓ he's not this guy. Because somebody asks, hey, chalk.
Ananya: Hmm.
Akshay: Yeah.
Ananya: Hmm
Akshay: Yeah, totally, totally. Huh. Yeah, yeah.
Ananya: Yeah. ⁓ in a rascala minded scene. I'm like, that's just not ending. Why do we have a stuffed eye going on at this point?
Akshay: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ananya: Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Even like a lot of again it part it's part of everything is world building, right? Like ⁓ like again, South Indian actors coming to Bollywood was not a big thing back in the day. So hence the unbelievability that she doesn't know him yet because and he's trying to prove that ⁓ he's a big actor. So again, like trying to like overdo stuff. It's also I think this is I think India's version of camp. Like it's so like outrageously And like, you know, he has to take out his jacket and all of that. And then he finally confesses that I'm nobody. I'm just a struggling junior artist. ⁓ so you as an audience are like, ⁓ no, like you felt you feel so bad for this guy. And so again, you have already ⁓ subverted one expectation there that you know it was some it was go supposed to go one way, but it went the other way. And you now think that because he said so.
Ananya: You Hmm. Hmm. Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Akshay: Maybe at least the character thinks that she's not gonna be friends with him anymore. So again, you feel that hi bachara, like you know, but again, subvert that expectation is like I don't care. Nobody else jumped in the fire for me except for you. So we're still friends. ⁓ I thought that was a great scene. ⁓ Then I wanna talk about ⁓ out there. ⁓
Ananya: And then, yeah, Fun. Okay, heroes journey. Say that again, okay. Hmm. Hmmmm
Akshay: Yeah. But you're ⁓ heal Johnny
Ananya: Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. That's why you cough now on purpose. You're just like, no, not Do
Akshay: Yeah. One more pickup I have written for you, which we'll do in the end. putting enough moments in the film that when somebody re-watches your movie, they shouldn't feel the suspense came out of nowhere. So the technique you have to employ in this is that you have to really backtrack your suspense and see where you can plant appropriate hints for the audience. That it doesn't feel like it was just an out-of-nowhere, it was it wasn't unearned, it wasn't earned enough.
Ananya: Okay, okay. Pickup. Director sahab, you're practicing here now for your revenge. But pick up, you conceptualize the pick up, na. But... supervisor just says, take it. I conceptualize. Okay. Okay. Let's go into the hero's journey next. What is your hero's journey?
Akshay: Does it script supervised work?
Ananya: Mmm.
Akshay: Yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's cool.
Ananya: Hmm. Yeah.
Akshay: I have two moments here where before the final reveal that the ghost of Shanti Priya exists, ⁓ you sort of have set up in some way. Now that I look back in the movie after so long, that like, ⁓ that's such a clever thing they did here. That you know, like it's a little bit telling of that some extern exterior forces exist here. So one was that, one is the very obvious one, right? Which is the
Ananya: Your hero's journey is a journey which every character or every person, including you and I, go on. When we decide to do something new, that is something outside of our comfort zone, which we haven't done in the past, when we have a new goal that we want to achieve and we decide that enough is enough, this time we're actually going after it, we end up going on a journey, which is not so much a journey of achieving this goal, but it is the journey of
Akshay: ⁓ the frame set is on is on fire. ⁓ you see that the wire is broken, but still it catches on fire. So again, maybe you think maybe it worked in the end. So for like, you know, you think a little bit suspension of disbelief you can do ki chal niha pesha, kam karkya oka because char bar remote patak ki TV chal jata. You know it's that it's that logic. But but one more thing they do is that when ⁓
Ananya: becoming the person who can achieve this goal. It is about shedding your old identity. It is about fighting the demons and the dragons that come your way. It is about asking for help. It is about hesitating. It is about showing a kind of bravery or kind of gumption that you have never demonstrated in your life before but just are a demonstration of how much you care about this new goal, right? So, this hero's journey Hmm. ⁓ boy, ⁓ boy. ⁓ coined by Joseph Campbell is a journey our characters are going to go on too. It is this process. But it is a little more streamlined because in real life these phases occur and bleed into each other and don't really occur on the same timeline. But when you're watching a movie you want a somewhat linear experience so that your audiences feel like they have gone on an emotional journey. One that mimics the one that they will go on too but within a span of two hours, two and a half hours.
Akshay: Sandy's character is roaming around in the dance in the song sequence, ⁓ and he's she's trying to spook ⁓ Arjun Rampa's character. There is one shot you see of Dipaka Padukon's character in Shanti Priya's clothes, even though Sandy is in the new clothes in the far end, in under a spotlight, just looking at him. So in that moment, you're like, is this Shanti or is this Sandy? and
Ananya: Hmm. Hmmmm So this hero's journey ensures that you give your audience these emotional hits that they need so that they know that the story is moving forward in an emotionally relevant and structured fashion. More cohesive. It makes the emotions make logical sense, the logic of emotions, ⁓ So your hero's journey consists of 12 different phases.
Akshay: The next thing you see is Shantip is actually in a room. So probably this is the ghost. and this time when I was watching, when Arjun Rampal comes into this new set, which looks exactly like the old set, the first thing he does is looks at the Juman and then he looks at the ground. This is a very far shot, which is not covered, but I notice this because now I as I know what the secret is, right? So
Ananya: Hmm. Yeah.
Akshay: More cohesive way, yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: Hmm... Ground...
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: Yeah... And these phases take you through the various turning points that your hero has to hit in the process of achieving their goal and becoming the person who achieves this goal first and foremost. Yeah
Akshay: But so cleverly directed and planted here that ⁓ because he knows like it's ground myself. So he immediately looks down. So I thought that was a great ⁓ thing they did. And I I think it's a sign of good plotting and like good staging, because again your audience shouldn't feel this was so random, right? Like yeah, so you have to do these things for your audience, especially for a good mystery to land.
Ananya: Mmm. Yeah. So the first phase of your hero's journey. But before we go into that, I wanted to talk to you about the two different hero's journeys, right? That are part of this film because as we mentioned before in several films too, because Bollywood has a tendency, especially when this film was made of doing a before interval after interval, we almost kind of have two different films, right? And ⁓ over here too, because...
Akshay: Yeah.
Ananya: Out of nowhere, yeah. for sure, yeah. And this comes only in your later drafts, right? You first write that, Jhumar ke niche melegi Shanti Priya ki lash. And then you go back and write it in your script that like Arjun Rampal's character looks up and looks down at the ground. So this is stuff that just comes in retrospect. This is how your rewriting comes in. This is when all your jokes come in. This is when all your Easter eggs are planted.
Akshay: Yeah, yeah.
Ananya: Shah Rukh Khan dies and is reborn into a new storyline. We also have two different films, but one film driving the other. So we have two heroes journeys.
Akshay: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a proper case of first half, second half because the worlds also change, right? Like in the first half it's the world of s as a struggling actor and the second half is the world of a superstar, essentially. So this completely warrants two ⁓ different heroes' journey. And the first one informs the other anyway. So which is great. Yeah. Yeah. Like you have to use your timing of rewrite to elevate every scene possible, right? Like you have to relook at the scene now that you know the end already. So like how can you like pad up, layer up, like make it more elevated with a joke, with a moment, with a scene? However you can do that. Do it in your second, third draft. ⁓
Ananya: Yeah Yeah, but he is. Yeah. Yeah. Hmmmm Exactly. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Nothing is wasted. Again, perfect cause and effect. Right? Okay. So first you have the ordinary world. What is the ordinary world? It's the world in which your hero exists before they decide to go on this journey or before they decide to pursue their goal. You see what their limitation is, what their flaw is, what the rules of their world are. Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: 45th draft, yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. ⁓ then I wanna talk about the the technique of foreshadowing. You sort of give a clue or a hint to the audience that this is what the film might go, this is where my film might go. So that again, when it happens, it feels that you're part of this journey anyway, and it doesn't seem again out of nowhere or random. So here when
Ananya: What the when, where, who, what and why of the world are and the circumstances that are holding them back or making them the person that they are. Over here we see Shah Rukh Khan is a junior artist. He's extremely enthusiastic. He really wants to make it big. He really loves the movies. He has a mom and a best friend as one always does in these films and he is also madly in love with Hmm.
Akshay: ⁓ Om Prakash Makija is telling Shanti Priya that this is what my role is, you know, that I'm gonna die two times and come back. ⁓ so in the he says that in the first half of the movie, I'm killed and you know I die, but I'm reborn and I take revenge in the second half and I die again. So ⁓ purposely done that so that you know, again, your audience doesn't feel like this is absolutely absurd when it actually happens.
Ananya: Mm-hmm.
Akshay: Yeah.
Ananya: Shanti Priya, the big superstar who is out of his reach. Right? And he's going to premieres to get her attention just to see her and he is absolutely in love with her. Then we have the call to action. What is your call to action? It is when you're given the first sort of call to achieve your goal. Come, come achieve your goal here. Why don't you go after it? Right? Yeah. Hmm... Yeah...
Akshay: And it's also like a good like again, an Easter egg for the whole movie. ⁓ but it's actually I think good foreshadowing because it's brushed off as a joke until it becomes actually serious.
Ananya: Yeah. Hmm.
Akshay: Yeah.
Ananya: Over here, the call to action is ⁓ when they're on a set and they're shooting with Shanti Priya and it's a dacoit kind of situation and the set is on fire because that is what the movie calls for and Shanti Priya is caught in the fire and someone, the actor needs to go rescue her. And then you have the refusal of the call. This is all happening in one quick sequence, right?
Akshay: then then then then then then then. ⁓ I want to talk about the technique of callback. ⁓ callbacks are moments, dialogues, ⁓ small scenes between characters which happen at multiple places in the film, ⁓ which either tell us that the relationship has changed between them or it hasn't changed at all. and one big moment which comes to See yeah.
Ananya: Yeah, one scene actually. ⁓ And the refusal of the call is when either you or someone around you says, no, you cannot go after your goal. It's too big for you. It's not supposed to be or you are scared to go after it. Over here, Shah Rukh Khan wants to go after her, but he is a junior artist ⁓ and is actually the actor, the main superstar who has to go and rescue Shanti Priya from the fire. That is the scene. So everyone's like, no, no, you don't go. Let this actor go. ⁓
Akshay: My mind is when Om Prakash Makija tells Shanti Priya that the love you deserve? Just reach for it and it's yours. So ⁓ and she says, I'll reach it and I'll claim it as mine. Like this is what she says. So that's one moment ⁓ established. That's also her learning in this scene. The next time she does this.
Ananya: Hmm. Hmm. Then you have meeting the mentor. Meeting the mentor is when you meet someone who has been on your journey and says that, okay, ⁓ you know, I have been where you are going to go and I will give you the sword you need to kill your dragon. So over here, there is no literal mentor who says that. But I was thinking maybe the actor finally refusing to go in was the structural push that he needed
Akshay: Is when she is actually in front of Arjun Rampal's character. She's saying that asking for the happiness that's mine to claim, and he doesn't raise the hand. So here the callback says the relationship has changed here, right? Because, like, first of all, she said she will do this and she did it, but she doesn't get reciprocated. Now, another time this happens in the movie is when they're actually dying for the first time ⁓ in the for the end of the first half.
Ananya: Hmmmm Hmm.
Akshay: Mentor. Yeah.
Ananya: Mm. Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah.
Ananya: to be able to say that, okay, I am crossing the threshold now, like literally the fire threshold, but it's not like a mentor character and nor is it like a mentorship moment also. It is just a push. Absolutely. Yeah.
Akshay: Where he's come to save her, and there's a brief moment of realization that I've come to save you. Don't worry. So he extends his hand and she extends her hand as well. ⁓ so and there's no rush there, they're not getting out there. It's just a small realization that I'm ⁓ this is the love I have for you. I'm extending it, and she's I'm accepting it. And but again, they killed off. Now, this again is repeated in the very end of the movie when
Ananya: Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. Correct. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's the final push this character needed to pursue his goal right now. I've I've also written the same, like the fire scene. ⁓ Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: Hmm. the fire scene, yeah exactly. So yeah, so then Shah Rukh Khan crosses the threshold, threshold crossing the threshold is when you make a move into the new world and you say I am going to achieve my goal no matter what and you take an action that is irreversible. So where Shah Rukh Khan jumps to the fire and rescues Shanti Priya in the process even burning his own back. Hmm... Yeah.
Akshay: Om Kapoor sees the host of Shantipriya and she's walking back and she does this one final time. ⁓ raises extends his hand towards her. ⁓ again, it just goes on to say that the relationship which he wanted with her has not changed. The nature of it has not changed. So I thought that was a great callback. It's so small, right? Like ⁓ very hard to write it, but great if you can execute it.
Ananya: Yeah But he says, I will do this again and again if I have to. I didn't do it to show myself like the bigger man, I did it because I love this woman a lot. So, and Shanti Priya hears this, she thanks him and Shreyas Talpade, who is Shah Rukh Khan's sidekick, goes all he's actually not a junior artist. He's like a famous actor from the South, et cetera. Then you have test allies and enemies. This is when... Yeah, yeah. Mary. Yeah. Wow.
Akshay: Because it's not clever. That's the good thing. Like it's simple and simplicity is the hardest.
Ananya: Hmm, simple. Yeah, yeah. Because it needs to touch hearts. It's not a mind, like you said, it's not clever. doesn't need to stimulate the mind. It needs to touch people's hearts.
Akshay: Yeah. I wanna I wanna Hold on a moment. ⁓ Again we've spoken about how there are lots of times where films have multiple calls to actions and multiple refusal of the calls. So what you said was bang on, like right? Like this was the call and somebody refused it and he had to pursue it. One more call to action and refusal of the call, which I found in the movie, which I thought was there, was that so far he was just an admirer of this woman from afar, from on a poster in the movies. And I feel a great callback or a great payoff is something where you don't even remember this was a setup. You know, like it's so it's so organic and it's so internalized that you're like, ⁓ then you later on piece it, like, ⁓ yeah, you know? ⁓ so it's like great. ⁓ let me just check if I have other anything else.
Ananya: Yeah. Mmm, it's so organic to the moment. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Hmm
Akshay: But this time he's told that, ⁓ you can actually meet her tonight for the first time because ⁓ she's coming for a premiere and I've scored tickets for the two of us. So that was I think another call to action where he can actually meet the love of his life. And in a structural way, the refusal of the call begins when or the refusal of the call happens when he's thrown out of the theatre. So ⁓ that again, like this was a very short lived moment in their life, that will not happen again. I think that is it. These two things I'll bring it in dialogue TK. So yeah.
Ananya: Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I just had one last technique I want to talk about which is micro conflict because your film is built on the idea of conflict. You can't go long without something going wrong without some tension drama suspense jeopardy danger whatever you want to call it. So over here when you have the song of like Dastaan Hai Ye like with the music launch which is going on and Shanti Priya is spooking Arjun Kapoor but
Akshay: Hmm.
Ananya: Hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Akshay: So a hero is refused this call that ⁓ even though you met her, nothing is gonna come out of this. Yeah.
Ananya: happen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. For sure. And ⁓ yeah, I believe that if he had not been thrown out of the cinema, he would have gone and found a way to meet her. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. For sure. Cool. Nice. Then we have test allies and enemies.
Akshay: This time I don't realize not till you stop. Yeah.
Ananya: It's become so normal. Yeah. Okay. where Shanti Priya is spooking Arjun Rampal and ⁓ over there it's all going as per plan, right? He is spooked. But then he decides to leave in that song and you cut to Shreyas Talpade's reaction that no, no, no, no, no, no, he can't leave. So you've created micro conflict in that moment. The song is still going on.
Akshay: Exactly, yeah. Because that's his character also, like sneaking in, sneaking out, yeah. Yeah. ⁓
Ananya: This is where you understand the lay of the land of your new world. What are the tests you're going to face? Who are your allies who are going to help you out? Who are the enemies who are going to stand in your way? Over here, this is a shortish sequence where Shah Rukh Khan is pretending to be an actor from the South and trying to live up to that role and only for his sort of disguise, his lie to come crashing down. Everything is going as to plan. But it's boring if everything is still going as per plan. You need to have at least a moment. And then Shah Rukh Khan swoops in and like ropes him back into the song and makes him part of it and saves the day. But it is moments like these which also make sure your audience don't go to sleep during the movie. So you need to keep giving them little like, ⁓ my God, ⁓ my God, little... I think these are the drama equivalents of a bit of a jump scare, kind of, but not really.
Akshay: Yeah.
Ananya: And Deepika to find out that he's actually just a junior artist. And Shah Rukh is like, ⁓ well, we're done for. But he really wants to go on a date with her. And Deepika obliges. She's like, okay, I will go on a date with you. Right? One night. And then we have the ⁓ approach to the innermost cave. Your approach to the innermost cave is if your goal is to slay the dragon, this is where you start approaching the cave where your dragon is
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And it happens again the same song, right? Like he follows her and like she ⁓ crashes into like a candlestick or something. And ⁓ and like she like bleeds. And that's what ⁓ so it's immediately like breaks the illusion for him that she's not real. Like, you know, she is real, like she's not his imagination. Yeah. Yeah, again, micro conflict moment create.
Ananya: candle and she has a burn yeah and start the fight against them. Over here is the wonderful date sequence which is in the studio, in the sound studio and they can't go anywhere so they create everywhere within the studio and they have this phenomenal date together. And then you have your ordeal. Your ordeal is where now that you've gotten your bag of gold and you're escaping, the dragon is coming after you. Yeah, real, a ghost, Yeah, exactly. Great, for sure,
Akshay: What next?
Ananya: Mmm, up a toe.
Akshay: We could do shorter jobs.
Ananya: Yep, let's do genre tropes. I genre trope, dialogue, world.
Akshay: Yeah, that's it. Huh.
Ananya: you have to fight off the consequences. ⁓ Over here it is Shah Rukh Khan finding out that Deepika Padukone is actually married to Arjun Rampal's character and she's actually pregnant with his kid too. Shah Rukh Khan is heartbroken and in his heartbreak as he's drinking he learns that Arjun Rampal is going to kill Deepika Padukone. Cool.
Akshay: Is it cold there?
Ananya: It's not cold but I'm just also not wearing too many clothes so I need blanket. It's 19 degrees. Not too bad.
Akshay: Okay. Mm mm. Yeah. But decent weather, good weather.
Ananya: Yeah, yeah. Someone ⁓ sent Mali a birthday wish and she doesn't know who it is.
Akshay: Yeah. When does that happen?
Ananya: That is the whole point, no? Sure.
Akshay: So she's tracking with everybody. Isn't that like a reveal he also comes to know that he's gonna like ⁓ sh I didn't I never thought he got to know that he's gonna kill kill her.
Ananya: Yeah, he also is drinking. Yeah, she just said, don't know and the number is and the picture is of a cat.
Akshay: ⁓
Ananya: Yeah. I sent her a video on Instagram saying three exercises to do if your body is paining and I was like happy 43. ⁓ I thought he overheard everything. I don't know, Devanar.
Akshay: He overheard that he overheard that like ⁓ I'm pregnant and he's like ⁓ I'm gonna like ⁓ that's such a good news, thank God you told me about this. And then he Hmm Hmm
Ananya: Yeah. Hmm. But then when he's drinking, he's outside the thing, and he's listening to the whole marriage proposal.
Akshay: Ha ha ha.
Ananya: Because the other day she was complaining. She was like, my body hurts and it's telling me to work out.
Akshay: Yeah. Right, right, right, right, side ha ha. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. ⁓
Ananya: Hmm that is overhearing. wait, I'll start again my god, I don't understand people who don't.
Akshay: Howdy huh? Yeah. Haha
Ananya: Then you have the ordeal. The ordeal is when if you've gotten your bag of gold from the dragon and you're leaving the cave, the dragon is now coming after you and you have to fight them off, run away from them, make good your escape. Over here it is post the date. Shahrukh Khan wants Deepika Padukone's attention, but he's not getting any. He realizes that she is in fact married to Arjun Rampal's character and she's going to have his kid. Let's go into genre tropes next. So I'll start with a rom-com genre trope. There are two I want to talk about in one scene. Which is the first is the bubble. So this is when Shah Rukh Khan goes for the premiere of Deepika Padukone's Dreamy Girl and his dhaga gets stuck ⁓ what do you call Deepika Padukone's bangle like
Akshay: Let's do it.
Ananya: Next, he is drinking, he is sad, he realizes that he has to let it go. Even in his drinking, he is really, he's like, okay, I will let it go this ⁓ only for you. Next time, I won't let Arjun Rampal's character get away with this, but if you're happy, I'm happy. And as he's drinking on the studio lot, he happens to be at the same studio where Arjun Rampal is with Deepika and it seems like they're planning their wedding. dupatta something like that. ⁓ And he follows her for a bit, before, after which she is being dragged away. And even as he is being dragged away, you are caught in the moment between the two of them because of the music and all of that. He's staring at her, she's staring at him, all of that. And then the bubble bursts and you realise it's all the security saying, arey, chal chal, idhar se. So this is isolating the two of them, creating a mini bubble world.
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: Only for them, only for Arjun Rampal to reveal that he is here to kill Deepika Padukone's character. Shah Rukh Khan, because he's drinking over there, finds out what is happening. And as Arjun Rampal leaves and Deepika is trapped in the burning studio lot, Shah Rukh Khan tries to rescue her, but he is punched down by Arjun Rampal's goons and he is injured. Yet, he fakes his own death for a few moments or he fakes that done for.
Akshay: Yeah.
Ananya: before you have reality. Because this is the point of, again, it's how you create conflict, right? Contradiction. For reality to land, you need to first put them in a bubble world in order for that, ⁓ no, they're being pulled away to actually hit you. And this also is a transgressive touch, which we've discussed, is when touch hasn't been earned, they haven't been close enough to kiss, to hug, any of that, but...
Akshay: Mm. Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: And as the goons retreat, Shahrukh Khan is able to break the glass and go in and help Deepika Padukone. That is your reward. The reward is when you are finally able to get a moment with your bag of gold and go ahead and get what it is and ⁓ enjoying that for a moment. So here, this is not a moment of enjoyment, but it is a moment of reward that the thing is moving forward. You're getting what you want. Right? You still need to meet audience expectations of a rom-com where there's touching, there's touching and that. So you create moments when they're not supposed to touch each other, but it happens and that's called transgressive touch. So over here, the fact that Deepika Padukone has to untangle her dupatta from his dhaga, that transgressive touch. Also, I want to add that that dhaga was tied around his wrist by his mum
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like he wants to get her out, so like that's the real hope that he's about to. Yeah.
Ananya: who said that no, no, will go well, you'll get Shanti Priya. And it's that same thread which catches. So again, cause and effect, economical, tight writing and rewriting in the drafts. Very, very, very well done.
Akshay: ⁓ Yeah. Same. Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: Exactly, exactly. Then you have the way back. The way back is you've gotten your bag of gold, but now there is still a bunch of road to cover ahead and there are demons and dragons on that road and you have to fight them off in order to go back to your old world. So over here Shah Rukh Khan is trying to rescue her. The fire is blazing all around them and he tries his hardest.
Akshay: Yeah. Very well done. And this is such a Bollywood trope. Now the woman's dupatta or Sari will like get in the boys watch or something. ⁓ Like it's this is a trope will you see nowhere else but just Bollywood films. ⁓ Yeah.
Ananya: Yeah Mmhmm, Bollywood, exactly. And that That is your world, right? Like how ultra Bollywood can you make this film is what it's but he is unable to rescue her and in a moment he is shot out of the window and he lands in front of a car and he is ⁓ knocked out by that car. And then you have your resurrection. Your resurrection is when your character is at their lowest but they find the last will of strength inside them and they rise from the ashes. Right?
Akshay: Yeah, about. Nice.
Ananya: I also want to talk about rain as a genre trope to amplify emotion. We spoke about this in Hum Tum as well, where something goes wrong and you want to make the characters look sad or you want to make them come together or you want to make them show longing, you use rain because it creates doom, gloom, sadness. So over here when Shah Rukh Khan learns that Deepika is actually with Arjun Rampal, it starts raining around him when he's drinking. So another one. Over here Shah Rukh Khan is in the hospital, the doctors are trying to save him but he doesn't resurrect. There is no rising from the ashes, right? But then you have the return with the elixir. The return with the elixir is when you go back into your old world but now as a new person. And I think the return with the elixir here is all the way from him being reborn as Rajesh Kapoor's son, the famous actor's son, nepo baby.
Akshay: I have a few genre tropes of romcom. ⁓ The genre trope of fantasy versus reality. ⁓ the song Dhum Tana, where Om Prakash's character from the audience is looking at Shanti Priya's films with these big heroes. He is imagining himself in place of these actors. ⁓ Because that's ultimate fantasy, right? ⁓ A to be a hero, B to be with her. ⁓
Ananya: Yeah. Hmm.
Akshay: Hm. Hmm. Yeah.
Ananya: Hmm. To him finally realizing that I am in a reincarnation that I used to be this junior artist and I have to save I have to avenge the death of Shanti Priya because return with the elixir is what? That you are a new person and you've learned something new. So the learning only comes when he realizes that this is what I'm here to do with my life. Yeah. Hmm.
Akshay: Hmm.
Ananya: Yeah.
Akshay: ⁓ it's like a so it's a great fantasy land and it constantly keeps breaking because ⁓ he's still in the audience. Whereas she is the big heroine working with these big actors. The reason this works is because it gives again a moment of yearning for our audience that, ⁓ this character wants to be with her so badly. Like everything he does are things about her. ⁓ But it's still far from truth. So that yearning and anticipation is what this genre trope does very well. Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: Hmm.
Akshay: Yeah. Hmm. Right, right. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah.
Ananya: Cool. Let's go into the hero's journey of the second half. Now over here your ordinary world is the world of the superstar where you see that Shah Rukh Khan is a superstar, he's Rajesh Kapoor's son, everyone is clamoring for his attention and he has a phobia of fire in this lifetime. Then you have the call to action. Hmm. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah.
Akshay: ⁓ I wanna talk about the genre troupe of grand gestures. The first date he takes her out and he says, I'm gonna have just one evening with you. He plans it a ⁓ elaborate date, right? Like it's in a sound studio, they have multiple setups, the different costumes, whatever, everything ⁓ and ⁓ just like what is will be the biggest thing he can do for her is like to feel seen and to feel like so that they can enjoy these different moments in just one night. Yeah. File.
Ananya: Yeah. Yeah. And now over here, as you mentioned, there are several call to actions, right? And the call to actions are the triggers from the past life. It's the fire, it is going to the set that burned down, it is Kirron Kher's character who's the mother, right? And something stirs within him. But then he has the refusal of the call, which is inaction, which is he doesn't know what to do. Yeah. Hmm.
Akshay: Fast. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.
Ananya: Hmmmm
Akshay: ⁓ The reason that gesture works is because you really want to tell your person that this is the extent I can go to for you. ⁓ So what do you think? Do you wanna be on this journey with me or not? So it's like a great so he this is what the way he's professing his love for her. ⁓
Ananya: Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. Not believing what this is or not knowing what this is. Yeah.
Ananya: knowing what this is exactly. It's like, I don't know why this is happening. Right? And the mentors in this case, I believe are the memories which are triggered, which is what finally get him to take action. Right? When he finally has the memory of everything that goes down after the Filmfare speech all of that, he really recalls everything. And those memories are his mentors. Right? Yeah. Yeah, Rescuing her from the fire, grand gesture.
Akshay: Yeah, rescuing her from the fire, yeah. Grand gesture. Yeah. True that, I didn't think of that. Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: I think so.
Akshay: ⁓ so yeah, these two moments I had were rom com genre tropes. Yeah, like I also felt Like the entry of Arjun Rampal's character back in this life. Like that is that's the final trigger for him to like, ⁓ now I remember everything suddenly you know? Because he was he was trying to replace what is all these flashes, what are these ⁓ things like. But the moment he sees this perpetrator, this like murderer actually, and that's when it all like comes to him, like, ⁓ this was my life.
Ananya: you I wanted to go into reincarnation genre tropes too. I haven't seen a lot of reincarnation movies but I feel like this is legit, right? One is ⁓ the phobia of fire over here which is essentially ⁓ a past life thing has to come and haunt you in your current life. So over there he was killed in a fire so obviously current life may he has a phobia of fire. It is a genre trope because it's reincarnation so you have to carry baggage from the past. Hmm, that is also...
Akshay: Mm-hmm.
Ananya: everything exactly so arjun rampal is like
Akshay: Yeah. Hmm.
Ananya: Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah.
Ananya: Exactly, exactly. So Arjun Rampal's character is also a trigger. It's a call to action and the memory is like the mentor which everything comes back. The next is ⁓ role reversal. In the first half of the film, he is Deepika Padukone's super fan. And the second half, Sandhya ⁓ is Kapoor's super fan. And there is no other way to do it. This is how it has to be done. Because now the roles have switched and in this reincarnation, because he has reincarnated, there has been a status switch. And you have to show that within the characters.
Akshay: ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Correct. Yeah.
Ananya: And then you have Crossing the Threshold. This I believe is the longer sequence where he goes to meet Kiran Kher and Shreyas Talpade's character. He's like, okay, you're my mother, great. Hi, Shreyas. Become old. And then he goes and meets Arjun Rampal's character too. And he says that, okay, you want to make a movie with me? I want to remake Om Shanti Om. And he convinces Arjun Rampal that this is the way forward. That is Crossing the Threshold.
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So Yeah.
Ananya: So if I were, this is the only way to do it in a reincarnation film. Then.
Akshay: Yeah. Like it shows the b broadest range, right? Like like he was a struggling actor, now he's a superstar. He was a super fan, but now he has a super fan. So the broadest range you can show. Yeah. What I find so interesting in the second half is that early on in the second half they've nowhere really told us his intentions. Like, ⁓ is he doing this? Like, is he does he want to avenge Shanti Priya's death? What does he want to do? Like I think that's a interesting choice they've made because it's a lot of things, right? Like it's to avenge his own life, it's to avenge like ⁓ Shanti Priya's life. Just like so much so much layering is done here. Yeah.
Ananya: Hmm... Duh. Exactly. How different the reincarnation is, like how much life has changed for him, like how the reincarnation is, how one life is different from the other life, which is why he can value the other life or value this life more. Yeah. Hmm.
Akshay: Yeah, yeah.
Ananya: Yeah
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: And another one I want to talk about is dreams turning into reality. So where he says in one life that, ⁓ I will have all these servants and silk robes, all of that. And now he's actually waking up to that reality. So another thing, like you set this up in one world and when they reincarnate, they have their dreams come true into the other world. So we have to watch more reincarnation films to confirm that these are genre tropes, but I'm pretty certain that they are. Yeah, yeah, For sure. Exactly. Great. Then you have test allies and enemies. Over here it is the fun sequence of casting Shanti Priya. It is about finding the right person, not being able to find the right person until they finally meet Sandhya, Sandy, who is ⁓ a Deepika Padukone lookalike, ⁓ essentially, or a Shanti Priya lookalike, not a reincarnation, just a lookalike, someone who looks like her.
Akshay: Yeah. Mm. So so They are, they are, they are. I think a lot of K dramas do this.
Ananya: And who has none of the grace and charm of Shanti Priya and they have to figure out how to train her to become the best Shanti Priya she can and Shah Rukh Khan ultimately reveals the reason he's doing it to her and he says that look I'm actually like this reincarnation and stuff and she believes him. And then you have the approach to the innermost cave right Mmm, yeah, those. We need to be referencing those, yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. First we have to watch so many of them.
Ananya: Yeah. The problem with them is like I watch a lot of things in the background, so I'm listening to them, but I can't like listen to these Korean shows. have to listen to the dub, which I'm not going to do.
Akshay: ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. And my problem wouldn't live very long. So Yeah. Twenty episodes of an hour each. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: Never a long, never a long. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The approach to the innermost cave is when they start spooking Arjun Rampal out. They bring him everywhere and they start making him believe that he's seeing Shanti Priya's ghost everywhere. It's first at the studio lot, is then when they're doing like watching the rushes of the film and they see Shanti Priya in there and then it is at the music launch also, right? That over there Shanti Priya's ghost is walking around everywhere. I slow burn and all I'm like jumping to bed now, it's okay
Akshay: Hm. Yeah.
Ananya: me. Are we done with Ronald?
Akshay: Yeah, I don't have anything. Hmm.
Ananya: Hmm. This too long. Since should ⁓
Akshay: Yeah. And I feel like this movie has more and more which you haven't looked at. Like I'm pretty sure.
Ananya: But then you have the ordeal. Your ordeal is over here that Arjun Rampal finds out that this whole thing is a hoax, that Shanti Priya is fake, has to be an actor because he sees her bleeding and he's figured out that something is up over here. Right? So even as Shah Rukh Khan tries to corner him to admit the truth, he realizes that Arjun Rampal knows what's going on. Then you have the reward. looked at yeah yeah hmm i know i'm just like ⁓ god yeah okay Should we go into character creation next
Akshay: Feeling so tired already. Let's do it.
Ananya: So speaking of character creation, you already touched upon this when you talked about the opening shot of the film, right? So how do you build empathy immediately for Shah Rukh Khan's character? Because you have to fall in love with him and these techniques should work even if you're not able to cast Shah Rukh Khan in your film. So the first is that A, he is extremely enthusiastic. Which is when Sandhya or Shanti Priya, actually Shanti Priya's ghost comes and says information that even ⁓ Sandhya could know that even Shah Rukh Khan's character doesn't know. That ⁓ Arjun Rampal came back that night of the fire and he buried me alive. And if you want my lash, tumi ye jhumar ke niche mil jayegi. And that is the reward, right? You like characters who are just full of joy and who are enthusiastic. You're tired of seeing all these negative nancies in your life. Like that's everyday life. Film is escapism. So character who's happy in a happy situation, obviously, who's not cynical, who's really enjoying the moment, giving it their all. You love a character like that. You're on board with them. It's like when someone laughs, you laugh with them. It's contagious. So contagious happiness. The second one is ambition.
Akshay: Mm-hmm.
Ananya: Then starts your way back where Arjun Rampal to escape all of this. Sets the place on fire yet again. This turns into a battle between Shah Rukh Khan, Arjun Rampal and Shah Rukh Khan is able to get his hands on Arjun Rampal's gun. And this is when he wants to kill Arjun Rampal. Immediately you see him in the role of Rishi Kapoor that he wants to be like the superstar. You like characters who are ambitious because you admire them. You want to be like them. You believe that's a good way of living life. Third is other characters admiring them or believing them. Shreyas Talpade believes that Shah Rukh Khan is going to be a big actor. So you as an audience also automatically believe that he is going to be a big actor. Right? But Deepika Padukone Shantipriya says, ⁓ no, you can't do that. And that is when he's at his lowest. He's like, I have to kill him. His death is written at my hands. And she's like, no, it's not written at your hands. It's written, but it's written thanks to the Jhumur. And then she drops the Jhumur down and she kills Arjun Rampal's character. And that is the resurrection, where all of them kind of come back.
Akshay: Yeah.
Ananya: And then he's never disrespectful. He has a good relationship with his mom, but it is also about not about being overtly respectful. It is about also having banter, playfulness. So it's realistic. And building on that, he's also an everyman that we relate to. He's a smaller cog in the grander scheme of things, which is most people. So again, immediate relatability.
Akshay: Mm. Mm.
Ananya: And then you have the return with the elixir, which they've really not created a return with the elixir scene. Like everyone meets, it's all good, but yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. Cool. Yeah. I think returns the the realization of SRK's character that ⁓ like this is Shanti Priya, you know? ⁓ because he when even when she was still saying he is Jumar ki niche milegi Shanti ki lash, he wasn't doing two plus two. He wasn't believing in it, yeah. He was unsure. But the moment he sees actually Sandy in the back and then he looks up and she's still standing there, he realizes, ⁓ She was helping me throughout and like
Ananya: Mm-hmm. You're gonna yell. ⁓ Anything else?
Akshay: The characters because I don't have anything. I feel like I feel like a lot of character like these characters are very
Ananya: to, or he was, but he wasn't believing it entirely. He was unsure. Yeah. I realize I also have words. Sorry. Yeah
Akshay: Like prob probably not only criticism to this movie is like every character is just like a w one note. You know, I think like because I feel like the movie is such an elevated, heightened movie that, you know, the mother is the mother, the best friend is the best friend, ⁓ the girlfriend is the girlfriend. Probably like the girlfriend has the most layering essentially, because she like also looks at him as a friend. But you know, when she is very ⁓
Ananya: Yeah.
Akshay: she's here.
Ananya: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Nice. one.
Akshay: Yeah. ⁓ So I think his new realisation that ⁓ that her spirit continues to live here, you know, or his her spirit exists. I think that's his new learning for the Elixir.
Ananya: Hmm. Yeah. Mado, yeah. Best friend, yeah. Hmm... Exist. Hmm. Is it though? I mean, what do do with that information? Like, elixir is when you go into like the new world, knowing that, you know, you have changed for the better, or you're a new person.
Akshay: No, what do you think sir? Like like knowing that somebody
Ananya: Hmm.
Akshay: bothered in her old world and he's come to see her. She doesn't even say hi to him. ⁓ And like she has a secret life, but she's not able to come out of that. So I think like Shanti Priya's character has a lot of layers. And which probably I think even Om Prakash's ⁓ doesn't have that. Like he doesn't have a inner conflicting world. He doesn't have those too many thoughts. But I think hers is the strongest character. Yeah. Her hers is the more like
Ananya: Yeah. Hmmmm Yeah.
Akshay: I think the The fact that he wanted justice, but the fact that nature itself warranted justice from your hands, I think there is some sort of like realization, like some new information a person will feel, you ⁓ ⁓ suppose bad example, if I'm writing a film, but tomorrow somebody tells me you were born to write this film. You know that's a that's a big ⁓
Ananya: No. No. No it doesn't. Yeah.
Akshay: She has secrets, she has a different life, she has an interior exterior world, ⁓ which differentiates her from him.
Ananya: Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. No. Yeah, yeah. And secrets is a great character layering technique, right? A character deepening technique. That you live one life, but you're actually holding something so big within you. So it makes you believe the character is not one note, that they can hold multiple truths at a time and that creates a complex character.
Akshay: Yeah. Right, like his 30 years of his life has now like resulted this spirit getting like a final whatever, you know, like just justice. Which like because nobody really cared about his life, because nobody cared. ⁓ But ⁓ clearly somebody did for this ghost ⁓ ⁓ I think that's a new like a new realization that this character has that ⁓ I even though there's Sandy which exists, but there's also Shanti Priya's spirit which exists. Huh.
Ananya: Hmm... Yeah...
Akshay: Yeah.
Ananya: No, no.
Akshay: Yeah, yeah. And I think they've again like done it in her character in a very interesting way that again it's not a sudden reveal that her character has this. The moment when she's come to like ⁓ see him for the for date night, she comes in a burqa. So I again like I think it's hard for the superstars to just go out alone. So number one is that. Number two is that when he's telling her that you too deserve love and you just have to extend your hand forward, her face is like
Ananya: Hmm. Hmm. Hmm... Hmm... Yeah, I'm not convinced but I see that you're going somewhere with it but we haven't nailed it. Hmm.
Akshay: Anyway.
Ananya: Alone. Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. Sure. Yeah. I feel like one more thing that this movie did very well, which was that the sequence of ⁓ approach to inmost cave, ordeal and reward. I think there was a a little bit of mini those arcs also, like in this film. Like how we've always spoken as a series of call to actions and ⁓ refusal of the call. Like I felt this was like even the case in against him and you can see like the glint of like sadness in her eyes. ⁓ so again, yeah, foreshadowing and again truly feeling in that moment that it's just not for plot. Like her character truly felt that that somebody spoke these words to her. So again, so much her character is very deep here.
Ananya: Hmm. Hmm, that's foreshadowing. Yeah. Hmmmm Yeah. Yeah. Hmm, very deep for sure. Yeah. And you touched briefly on world. So let's go into world next, because obviously this film is built on the world. It's built the promise of taking you into the world of Bollywood, opening those doors up for you so that you can see it from two lenses, the lens of a junior artist and the lens of a superstar. And like you said, Easter eggs, it's full of Easter eggs, but there's also all the conflict is derived from the world.
Akshay: Yeah. Ordeal and reward here. Because one of the things, ordeals which the approach in most cave is them trying to spook Arjun Rampal's character. Now the ordeal is the consequence of what you've done, right? Like you've gotten the bag of so and he says, you know what? I'm leaving. I'm going away. So again, that's a problem because if that happens, then they can't achieve the goal which they've set out on. And the reward ends up becoming that.
Ananya: Okay. Hmm. Yeah. Need leaving, yeah. Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah.
Ananya: Hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Akshay: Sharakhan's character s almost blackmails him, ⁓ that you have to stay, otherwise you're finished. And that he's able to do that, that becomes like a reward. So like a mini ordeal and a mini reward there.
Ananya: First is for example, you need to change your name. Om Prakash Makhi Jaa nahi chalega. Om Prakash phir bhi theek hai. Makhi Jaa, no dude. And he even says, this is what we just tell all the makhis to go like, iske le that pe so good. He's like, no, you need to be an Om Kapoor or something. And next life he's born as an Om Kapoor. But this is a very relevant conflict within Bollywood. Like, it's a thing that everyone is changing their names all the time because either numerology or it doesn't sound filmy enough, cinematic enough, whatever. Yeah, understand.
Akshay: Hmm.
Ananya: Finish. Yeah. Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: Yep, yep, yep, correct, correct, yeah. Because I had written that down first as an ordeal too and then I cancelled it so it makes sense that it's a sequence.
Akshay: Cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But what amazes me that you know so much of the plot the audience already can preempt. Right? Like it's not like ⁓ my god. I think that the big twist in the end was the final nail in the coffin, which I think we you weren't expecting. ⁓ But the fact that they spent and I looked at this that from the moment he was killed in the first half to him remembering Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: Then I also liked the moment where they are on set and the line is like, bhaag and he's like, kitna bhaago and he's like, kitna ganda laaye hai and the assistant director is like, achha main ne likha hai par And the point is that, you know, we've been on film sets so we know this Even your most production type ka person is trying to be creative Right? Sab ko creative banna hai Hmm.
Akshay: Hm. Mm.
Ananya: Yeah.
Akshay: and seeing Arjun Rampal and getting all his memory. That's a 30-minute long sequence. But they don't care. You know? It was like as long as the journey is fun, tight, root, rooted in the world, and rooted to the characters. And again, it's so much of his like his character realizing, him making the other character realize. Like, there's very little new information for the audience coming in. It's again almost like a how Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: Hmmmm I have a creative contribution. No one is willing to admit that I'm not creative, I'm happy to deal with logistics. So they have really tapped that emotion ⁓ that everyone is a shadow creator. So that's also very taken from the world from an emotional point of view. Then ⁓ also this bit where, what do call it? ⁓ they are at the film premiere and they talk about like good news though, good news though.
Akshay: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ananya: I guess, yeah. fun.
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: Hmmmm
Akshay: are they gonna do this? So I think that's a that's a great screenwriting tip that I feel like it make us invest in your character so much that we really want to see how this plays out.
Ananya: Yeah, exactly. It's not what. And Rajesh Kapoor goes like, haan best actor to mujhe hi milega. They've tapped into the self, the self-importance of actors, which is again a conflict very, very true to the world. That ye hi hota hai. Within this world. So lots of great world building there. Then ⁓ another moment of conflict is when he burns his back after rescuing Deepika Padukone and Shreyas Talpade is like, be grateful it's not your face. Yeah, exactly, exactly. And for that you just need to create a phenomenal character and cast Shah Rukh Khan when he looked like that.
Akshay: So Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, totally. Yeah. I think so, yeah. It's SRK. So much of the movie is SRK, no? And such a sporty actor because like so much like he's like taking jokes on himself. He's just being so goofy. And just that's only I feel only a SRK can do.
Ananya: The Sherlock, yeah. Yeah.
Akshay: Mm. Hmm.
Ananya: because an actor's face is their currency in this world. So again, conflict taken from the world. So very well done in terms of even picking up these moments from the world. Snoopy, ⁓
Akshay: Yeah, yeah, mm.
Ananya: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I even remember watching Pathan or Jawan, which is the one with Deepika, I don't know. Same type. Patan, yeah. And you were there, he acts his age, right? Like, kind of. And he, again, he's flirting with Deepika Padukone and stuff. But only he manages to make it not creepy. Like, it is a Shah Rukh Khan thing. I don't think anyone else can pull this off.
Akshay: Ha but hand. Full the moment everything in the movie again comes heavily from the world, right? Like the fact that there are junior artists ⁓ waiting to be picked up by the guy for their daily job job, you know. ⁓ and she has like I've signed us up, so like you know, they become these Tola Kwa the fleevalas, and just like you know, s waiting all day around the studio a lot because back in the day this used to happen, like this big studio was there.
Ananya: from the world,
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: Yeah, yeah.
Akshay: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ananya: Hmm. Yeah.
Akshay: It is a shadakhan thing. Yeah, yeah. I think so too. Same.
Ananya: Hmm.
Akshay: And like, you know, people would have just be roaming around, like everybody would be sort of like an equ not an equal, but like you'd be at like just a like touch-away distance distance from your main celebrities. and the fact that in the second half, this big studio is now in ruins. ⁓ again, very telling of what the studio system used to be because like, you know, there are a lot of these ruined studios in in and around Bombay. Like in in Malad you'll find one, and like, you know, in Andhiri there is one. And
Ananya: I had such a big smile on my face watching this film. It was like my face wasn't big enough for this smile.
Akshay: You had the Shantipriya smile on your face.
Ananya: Yeah. I look scary doing it ⁓ Yeah. Cool. Let's go to theme next. What is the theme of your film? The theme of your film is, well, the whole reason you became an artist. We as artists have something to say about the world. We have lots of opinions and we believe the world needs to be a certain way. And there are certain rules or certain manners of being which one must embody in order to exist. And your theme is how you Yeah. Hmm.
Akshay: Now that we work in this industry, I now finally appreciated the realness of these things, right? Because when I saw this movie back in the day, my first question was like, how is the studio ruined lot not touched? You know, like a globe, nobody has come fixed it. But now I know that's the truth. Like if it's a bit a disputed property, fire was here, nobody will come and touch it. You know? It's just gonna be.
Ananya: Yeah. Hmm. Hmm. portray that in a film. It is in a film essentially posed as a dramatic question. It is you ask a question in front and center to your audience and whether your character and how that character answers your question determines your theme. So over here, I believe the theme is very simple. It is until when should justice be pursued? Right? It's almost like Bhoot. to the tear. And superstition.
Akshay: Superstition, yeah. Ghost haunt, whatever, you know. ⁓
Ananya: Yeah. This industry love... Every first day's shot is a Murat shot. So this industry runs on superstition. So burnt and bad luck, there's no way anyone's touching it.
Akshay: More at shot. Yeah. Yeah, so like so again and now I appreciated that, you know, that this can happen. And like I used to also wonder that how does Arjun Rampal get away with this, right? Like he literally committed murder and now he's properly fallen fine. But I feel like now I just know like people like might do a like corrupt amoral shit all the time in their life, you know. ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. I had a I don't know very... karma exist? ⁓
Ananya: Yeah. is Yeah, yeah, exactly, Right? Like, how long should you keep pursuing justice? Like, either you reincarnate and you pursue justice, or you become a ghost and you pursue justice? Like, both? Yeah, the ghost. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So you don't stop like justice needs to be pursued.
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Very much like Boot. Yeah, I didn't make that connection. Nice.
Ananya: Yeah. Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. In this case both happened. Like she was she came back as a ghost. Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Akshay: So it just now felt too real to me that these moments existed. And the only unbelievable thing, which was that he's made millions in Hollywood as a producer. Like that I don't buy. I will believe in reincarnation. But
Ananya: Yeah. hahahahah ⁓
Akshay: Yeah. But I think one good thing was that they haven't stated the question at all in the movie. ⁓ Which is so different than other films, right? Like where your dramatic question is posed to your characters or to your audience. ⁓ but I think it's not stated, but it's still part of the subtext, right? Like him wanting to avenge her, is part of that. Like he wants justice and I will go to any extent to do that.
Ananya: Mm-hmm. Yeah. ⁓ yeah. Yeah.
Akshay: So yeah, great world building for sure. Like like even the smaller movements like ye Junior Artist, ⁓ the Shikapune fake all that stuff is so good.
Ananya: Definitely. Even depicting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, that. Exactly. And that's a character thing, right? Because they've created a character who doesn't hesitate at any point. Even when he realises that, okay, I am a reincarnation of Om Prakash Makhi Ja, he's not like, ⁓ who's going to believe me? He immediately says, no, I have to pursue this. So for him, it is not even a question. But others ask that, are you mad? Like, who's going to believe this story? Hmm... Let see... Good. And Deepika Padukone's main conflict, Shanti Priya's main conflict that she's pregnant and like a pregnant actress or married actress and then a pregnant actress has no value, no commercial value. Again, big, true to the times.
Akshay: Yeah. ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah yeah totally. And the world. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓
Ananya: The world, yeah, two times in the world, exactly. Let's go into dialogue next. Yeah. Oh, man, what a joy this dialogue was. Exactly. So I want to talk about the technique of foreshadowing in dialogue, where you hint that something is going to happen and then you do. One is where he's talking to his mother.
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: So they've pursued the question, they've asked the question not directly from the characters mouth but from the protagonist mouth but from the other characters. So given that both parts exist, the question is posed. It is just through two different mouthpieces.
Akshay: Yeah. Man, I'm so excited. Yeah. Hmm. Hmm. Yeah.
Ananya: Cool. Okay, I need a break.
Akshay: Yeah yeah yeah. This Bombay weather is so weird. Like it's lovely, like it's nicely windy and breezy. But it makes you feel hot and cold at the same time. I've constantly been like doing AC on off on off.
Ananya: And he's like, you know, with Om Prakash Makhi Jaa naam ke saath, I will die a junior artist, just like my dad. And he does die a junior artist. So again, relevant to the scene because they're talking about the name, but also it is foreshadowing. So organic plus foreshadowing. Audiences in on the joke. Another thing I want to talk about is status, right? Yeah. Mmhmm. Yeah. Hmm.
Akshay: Yeah, it's hot and it's cold.
Ananya: and you're...
Akshay: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's ⁓ ⁓
Ananya: And you mentioned This line where mom was just like, I would have been Madhubala if I wasn't pregnant with you. And she says this other line, Madhu ⁓ ne bhi theek thak sambhal liya. So she doesn't call her Madhubala. That respect is not there. So this is a thing of status. In her head, she is at Madhubala's level. And they have kept that in mind, the first name basis. First name basis is someone you are familiar with. Awesome.
Akshay: Ha ha. Plus our guest conversation.
Ananya: ⁓ yeah. So you know what we could also do at some point, which once we have like 10 guest conversations, after that, if we've really cracked that format, those can also go behind a paywall, the guest conversations, for example. So she's like, haa Madhu ne bhi theek, like we are toh friends na Madhu aur main. So that dialogue too reveals status of the character. That how do they think, in which world do they exist in their head, who do they think they are.
Akshay: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Hmm. Correct. Yeah. So
Ananya: be seen.
Akshay: Hmm. Yeah. And it's a very important technique for your side characters, but especially when they don't have a lot of character layering, this is where good dialogue comes into play. That each character, at least in their head, has to feel a certain way. And how do you put that out? Like in their heads they have to feel scared. In their heads, they have to feel entitled. In their heads, they have to feel they're superior or inferior. So each of those decisions will will inform your dialogue writing for that character.
Ananya: Then. ⁓
Akshay: Good no a chiba there. It shouldn't be like
Ananya: Yeah, yeah, yeah. ⁓ yeah, yeah. Yeah. And recording 25 episodes has given me the conviction, the confidence that we will follow through on our idea. Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah, yeah, correct, correct.
Ananya: I much time. ⁓
Akshay: Yeah, yeah.
Ananya: Exactly.
Akshay: Do.
Ananya: For sure, because to us they are side characters and but in their life story, they are the main characters. So they have all of them. So... Then, ⁓ of course, there is the important pass of the movie pass. I want to say, because movie bits have to be incorporated everywhere in the dialogue here too. So for example, when... ⁓ What do you call it? They're doing the speech, the Batli Award speech and he first says the... I was like, we have a sip of water.
Akshay: Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Yeah, totally. Mm. Mm.
Ananya: you Okay. Ready? lines which are complicated and they're like okay take two so again same things you know and creeps into your vocabulary. then when um
Akshay: Let's do
Ananya: Your face froze for a second. It just happens to be everywhere. But I'm sure it's recording on your end. It just freezes on my end for like three seconds, so then, cool. Shall we go into scenes and sequences next?
Akshay: ⁓ yeah. Yeah. ⁓ Yeah, yeah. ⁓ yeah. Even the way like he he's on walkie talkie, ⁓ with ⁓ or like not ⁓ he's on a phone with Shreya Stalpade in the second half. He says ten four and he hangs up. ⁓ yeah. So again like it's it's because you've been on film set and that's how, you know, now ADs talk to each other. ⁓ So it's part of the vocab.
Ananya: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Akshay: Let's do it.
Ananya: The first scene I want to talk about is the opening shot of the film, right? Which is the fact that you are thrown front and center on a studio lot into a sound studio where they are recording a song. And you are thrown into the world of cinema. Yeah. Yeah. So when Deepika is telling Shreyas Talpade and Shahrukh Khan not to fight, she goes, I'll cut it, cut it, cut it. Like it's again that film pass coming through. So because this is the world of your film that has to come into your dialogue. So you have to do a film pass over here for this.
Akshay: ⁓ Yeah, hmm, very cool.
Ananya: And this is what the movie promises, right? A voyeuristic view into the world of cinema. Not even voyeuristic. You are right there. You are watching it from the... like as the character. So they meet the audience expectations right off the bat. You have Rishi Kapoor, a young Rishi Kapoor doing his song. You have the whole sense of all the junior artists around them. You're in the studio. So what I love is you don't waste a moment getting into the world of...
Akshay: Death, yeah.
Ananya: Then one more foreshadowing technique, one more foreshadowing dialogue which is when Shah Rukh Khan is drunk and he's talking to Deepika Padukone in his head and he's like, this time I'm letting Arjun Rampal go but what another birth? And then it's another birth. So good! So good!
Akshay: ⁓ Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ananya: the movie. Meeting audience expectations right off the bat.
Akshay: Yeah, totally.
Ananya: Hmm.
Akshay: Layering is everything in dialogue. ⁓ We spoke about the movie pass. I also think in the first half of the film, there's some they've done a little bit of Tapori Bombay language pass. ⁓ so ⁓ when you know they're in the post in front of the Shanti Priya's poster and ⁓ Kiran Kher's character says one day even your "thobda" will be on a poser. This is such Bombay slang language, right? ⁓
Ananya: Yeah.
Akshay: And there's so many things the opening sequence does. ⁓ do you have any point on the opening sequence? Okay. So, like the fact that Shah Rukh Khan's character, Om Prakash is in the audience, enjoying this. So, firstly, it ⁓ immediately tells us that he is like just like us, enjoying the sequence. So we get a direct perspective shot of this movie, right? Like, you know that this this is at the lens we'll be looking the movie at. Like
Ananya: You go ahead. Hmm. Yeah. Boom business. Yeah. Hmm.
Akshay: ⁓ And ⁓ in the opening scene when ⁓ the the dress guy, the dress kaka is saying ki ⁓ satak raha hai with the jacket. Again "satak" is such a bombay thing. And I think they do it a lot throughout the first half of the movie because that is the language people talk in Bombay, you know? It's so it's so fluent, it's so character of Bombay slang. ⁓ So I think that was a great Tapori pass it in the first half. this is gonna celebrate Bollywood. ⁓ This is gonna celebrate this world. And there is a moment in the song where Shah Rukh Khan's character Om Prakash himself imagines himself to be this Rishi Kapoor's character. What it does is that immediately tells what this character's dream and is. ⁓ And this is a important ⁓ note in this in a screenplay that your audience should know what your character wants. ⁓
Ananya: Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, talk, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Akshay: ⁓ In the second half, they've done something very similar where this Om Prakash's character and Om Kapoor's character is so elitist, right? Like he will try and speak in English and like look down, like not look down, but doesn't use Hindi words very colloquially in his off-screen life, right? So ⁓ wherever they have a big Hindi word, they sort of substitute with like an English word also to like for him to pad it up.
Ananya: I'm not sure. Hmm.
Akshay: And they spend no time wasting it. Like it's literally the first scene of the movie, you know, okay, because it has to be very clear to the audience what is the goal or what is the what the what is the main want of your protagonist. Otherwise they will not care about how much ever you can try and paint the world, paint like characters, but unless and until they come to know what the want is, you will not like fully be invested in the movie.
Ananya: Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Akshay: So when he says ⁓ "shaks," he also uses the English word "actress." It's repeated because shaks for him is not normal. And ⁓ as somebody like we also like write in so much in Hindi, but sometimes when we are caught in that word, we try and put an English word to it. ⁓ so they've tried to do that with Om Kapoor's character. Even when he says ⁓ sh-sh-shraddhanjali, ⁓ because again, shradhanjali is not a word he normally uses in his life. ⁓ And the fact that they do it right off the bat is amazing. And and I just realized while we were talking that they chose the song Om Shanti Om which is the title of the movie. But also the song is from the movie Karz, which is heavily referenced in the movie itself, firstly. And also like a lot of the plot is from Karz, which is the reincarnation and like all that. So I thought it was ⁓ good ⁓
Ananya: Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. Nom Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. Hmm. because yeah. Mm-hmm.
Akshay: So these small, small things again accentuate all your dialogue work so much. And one thing ⁓ which is great, ⁓ one technique which comes in great for dialogue work is the technique of repetition. ⁓ it creates the same humor, the same conflict, the same emotion, the same drama, or the same sort of like release. For your writers to be aware and also taking the audience in on this. Like nobody can tell you later on that ⁓ it's a copy Karz. I think they turned at one more point in the movie where ⁓ in the second half when Papu's character is telling what do you think you're doing? So I think that was a great choice, like you know, just calling it out
Ananya: Yeah. Yeah Yep. because key copy is like, we have acknowledged it. Hmm. Yeah. Hmm.
Akshay: And I think they've done this with two dialogues in the movie. One is when whenever he's talking to Shanti Priya, Omprakar says, I hope you're not getting bored." So when like he's either talking to her virtually in front of her poster and it actually plays out in real life and he's talking her and he asks ⁓ that and she's like no, not at all. So ⁓ again, his that dialogue is so important because you have to establish this is his relationship with this character. yourself before anybody can call you out on this.
Ananya: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And this begs the question, right, of what lines do you draw when it comes to inspiration, vis-a-vis, you know, actual adaptations? Because Karz is also kind of a remake of that movie you and I saw during Covid, which was Madhumati. So, I think it is one story just being retold for the generation for which it's being made, right?
Akshay: Mm. Yeah.
Ananya: Hmm.
Akshay: Madumati Yeah, yeah. In real life and in his head. So ⁓ because Dream. Yeah. Yeah. And it's again important for your audience to register the same information again. Like you can't have five dialogues and justify that ⁓ this is also what you mean, this is also what you mean, this is also what you mean. But if it's just one dialogue which can say this you mean to me throughout this, that's great. And Yeah.
Ananya: So he's getting to live out his dream almost. That's also how you get to see it. Almost like A Star is Born, which is done so many times over, though that is the same movie. I think here we're just not calling it that, but the bones of the film are the same. Mmm.
Akshay: Bones of the film are the same, but like again, so much of the world changes. Like at least Madhumati and this film has no realization at all. Like there's no similarity apart from the very broad strokes. ⁓ the world is completely I haven't seen cards, so I don't know how much is actually there. ⁓ but ⁓ I feel there's enough originality to save to make it seem that ⁓ it's not a complete like ripoff for sure. Yeah.
Ananya: Yeah. course. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Akshay: What the similar thing they have done with Shanti Priya's key dialogue, which is "ek chtuki sindoor..." So this is used to introduce Shanti Priya in her on-screen life. In her on-screen avatar. She uses this when she's trying to convince Arjun Rampal of her deserving nature as his wife. Even in the reincarnated life, that's the dialogue they're trying to create. Because that's her identity, right? Like
Ananya: Yeah, even I haven't seen the cards, yeah. Hmm. Hmm. Yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. And rip-off is not the word I'll use. I'll just say it's using the same story, just telling it for the way the generation needs to be told that story. Like, Madhumati was a painful watch for us, right? Like, but my parents really enjoyed it. Like, my mom remembers it vividly. But that's also the kind of storytelling that was relevant to that time. And now we have grown as an audience in terms of what we consume.
Akshay: Sure, yeah. ⁓
Ananya: Yeah.
Akshay: Total. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally.
Ananya: Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah.
Ananya: Yeah
Akshay: You can't give her multiple personality traits, multiple ⁓ dialogue things. It's just that one good dialogue you give her and it'll continue for all her life. And it's a great reminder to audience, ⁓ that guys are trying to recreate Shantipriya, it's just simple. Keep it simple, it will land. Yeah, yeah.
Ananya: NNNN
Akshay: Hmm. Yeah.
Ananya: Like we are used to more production design, more gags, technology has evolved. Because technology has evolved, our tastes have evolved. But this story in its basest form, we as humans are telling the same story, right? Overall, that's the whole point of Hero with a Thousand Faces and stuff. There is one monomyth. There's a singular story. So how can this story be told for us?
Akshay: ⁓
Ananya: Hmm, yeah. Yeah. Land. Yes. Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. That is all I have on dialogue. Yeah.
Ananya: That is all I have on Om Shanti Om.
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, same, same. ⁓
Ananya: Yes. ⁓ my God, I'm reinvigorated. I feel like I enjoyed Bollywood again after such a long time. Like, I'm actually excited about the movies. I feel like there might be merit to a career in Bollywood.
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: Is the whole point of making Om Shanti Om, think. Like how can we get to consume the same thing?
Akshay: Yeah. And you know what that famous line is, no? Like like young writers suffer from this problem that, ⁓ each story has been told before, but it's not been told by you. So I think and this is this is a such a Farah Khan movie, right? Like you can't take that stamp off of it. So ⁓ that way it's totally worth it. See this thing. Yeah.
Ananya: From a creative perspective, you know, like that you can have fun, you're not just writing like boring murder mysteries and kidnapping and fighting all of that. I just want to write something fun. I want to have people have fun while making their films while writing the films. We all need to be laughing. Like if I wanted to like ⁓ a boring job, I'd go back to Deloitte, right? Like if I wanted to be angry all the time, I'd do that. But by you. Yeah. Yeah.
Akshay: Yeah. Yeah.
Ananya: ⁓ my god, yes. Yes, no no
Akshay: Yeah.
Ananya: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I loved it. I'm glad that she was the one who told it for our generation.
Akshay: Yes, yes. Am I frozen for you? Yeah.
Ananya: No
Akshay: Yeah.
Ananya: This this is why! This film is an embodiment of the reason we choose to be creatives in our lives. To have fun, to enjoy that energy.
Akshay: You are frozen for me.
Ananya: ⁓ man.
Akshay: I think this is the new upgrade glitch they have done because Pele Riverside. Yeah. Yeah. And totally like this movie feels like such a good representation of who made it, right? Like this is like like how much ever I know Mayur as a writer, he says he's loved Bollywood all his life. So and it shows like right, like we are talking about as this is a different pass, that is a different pass. For all you know, this is this first pass. You know, like because
Ananya: ⁓ Yeah. No, that's how. No.
Akshay: What do I do? Do you wanna stop recording and
Ananya: Yeah. Yeah, let's stop this and both of us will rejoin.
Akshay: Okay.
Ananya: Hmm... She was... Yeah. Boss, yeah, it just came naturally to him. Yeah.
Akshay: Naturally to him. So that just makes all the sense that you should be able to write what you want to write, you should be able to make what you may want to make and have a great time.
Ananya: Yeah. Yeah. doing it exactly. Exactly. Well, thank you everyone for watching and we hope that our excitement has transmitted to you and you're so excited to go back and write your script, not feeling jaded, not feeling skeptical, not wanting to bang your head against the wall because this is a phenomenal creative journey if we allow it to be one barring all systemic issues around it. Anyway.
Akshay: Mm-hmm.
Ananya: So you know the drill, like, share, subscribe, comment with your questions, recommendations, suggestions, and we will get to it in our next or future episodes of the Breakdown Besties Podcast. Bye. ⁓
Akshay: Bye.
