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What is up?
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I'm Grace Beverley and welcome back to Working Hard, the
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podcast-shaped guidebook on how to improve your own life and
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achieve what you actually dreamed of doing. Because life's too
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short for boring podcasts and bad advice. What is up
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and welcome back to Working Hard. Guys, I'm so excited
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for you to listen to this episode. I want to
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start with something that I think a lot of people
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will relate to. There's that feeling of knowing that there's
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something you want to build or create or do, but
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constantly finding reasons why now isn't the right time. And
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the person I'm speaking to today has spent his entire
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career trying to prove that wrong. Simon Squibb went from
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sleeping rough at 15, starting a small gardening business, and
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step-by-step building business by business, and eventually experiencing a life-changing
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business sale. Since then, he's dedicated his life to funding
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strangers' dreams on the street and built a global movement
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around the idea that everyone deserves a shot. If you're
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confused about your path or you've got an idea that
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you just can't shake, this episode is a proper step-by-step
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guide to building your dream. We get into what freedom
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actually means, how to figure out what you actually want,
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how to start without quitting your whole life and what
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failure really teaches you. But before we get into the episode,
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please make sure you're following the podcast on whatever you're
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listening to it on right now. It means a lot
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to us, but it also means that you get a
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new episode in your feed every single Monday completely for
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free with no paywall and means that we can keep
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it that way. Simon Squibb are you currently more working
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hard or hardly working?
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I'm doing both I think I think it doesn't feel
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like work so I feel like I'm hardly working but
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I'm actually working hard but I think that's why purpose
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helps you work without feeling.
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It yeah and I want to dive into that because
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your story is incredible even just like going through the
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the bullet points of where you've been and everything I
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want to go right back to the beginning because I
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feel like that context around your relationship with work is
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so important. And you've spoken about being 15 and having
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the harrowing experience of watching your father have a heart
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attack and becoming homeless and unable to find a job.
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Can you tell me a little bit about how that
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shaped your relationship with what I guess was then you
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just being thrust into this idea of work as an
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essential way of keeping you alive rather than maybe leaving
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school and being able to dawdle around a bit and
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work out what worked for you.
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When I think back to my early days, I would
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probably describe myself as having an unlucky start to life.
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But I think luck is a strange thing. Sometimes luck
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can be perspective. But my father died and I found
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myself three weeks later homeless. And I did what the
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system told me to do. The system tells you, go
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get a job. You can get a job. Well, the
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system tells you if you can't, and I couldn't get
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a job, by the way, because I don't have a
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national insurance number and I didn't have an address. So
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no one will give me a job. And so then
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the system tells you go to social benefit, go get
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social security money and they'll give you a home and
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it will be fine. So I went to the social
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benefit system and they just basically said no. In fact,
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they said, I think, which is kind of worse than no.
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They're like, no, because there are six other people in
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front of you that all have kids and they need
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housing first. And in my head as a 15 year old,
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I thought I was a fully grown man. And I
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totally understood. I didn't get angry. No, you've got to
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give me a place to stay. I'm a kid. I
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didn't think that. I was like, oh, right. Absolutely. You know,
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like people have kids need somewhere to stay. I'll be
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all right. You know, I can sleep outside. And, you know,
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so it didn't even occur to me that the fact
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the social system didn't and couldn't help me. It didn't
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occur to me that that was wrong. And so then
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I just moved into this bird area which is like
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an area that i'd never really been taught which is
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why i'm so angry today i wasn't taught that i
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can have an idea in my head and make it
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real and the only reason i discovered this was a
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possible thing for humans is because i had no choice
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and so i had no job i had no social
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benefit underpinning me and one day i'm walking past a
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big house and for the first time in my my
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whole life my entrepreneur muscle woke up in my brain
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And it spoke to me for the first time. We
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all have it. Everybody, every single one of your listeners
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has this entrepreneur muscle. If they don't know it, they
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have it. You just need it to be activated. And
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sometimes having a really difficult thing happen to you can
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activate it. So you don't just want it, you need it.
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And I needed it to wake up.
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And it did.
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And it told me the garden was messy in this
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big house. Surely they've got the money to pay me
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to tidy up their garden. That's it. And then through
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Shin having no choice, I walked up to the front
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door of that house. I knocked on that door and
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I asked the person that answered it, would you let
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me take care of your garden and would you pay
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me to do it? And they said, yes. And that
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was it. That was the first gardening company business that
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I ever started. And so, yeah, I think that I
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look back at my childhood, that kind of stage in
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my life in a weird way. I spent a long
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time feeling really sad about it and often feeling my
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dad was gone. My life was awful. I had such
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bad luck. And now I'm, later in life, I look
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back at that moment and think, wow, I was kind
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of lucky. I was lucky to break free of the system,
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the treadmill system. And I was lucky to wake this
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part of my brain up that everybody has and realize
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that anyone can, if they want, not they should, anyone can,
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if they want, be an entrepreneur.
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Yeah. And I think that's really powerful. And I think
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it reflects why so many entrepreneurs came from a place
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where actually, if you ask them, you know, what made
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you start it?
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Yeah.
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So many entrepreneurs have a very specific origin story and
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it was this idea and it led to this and
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they decided to quit this and whatever I think so
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many entrepreneurs come from a position of need where the
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maybe not the same kind of existential need that you
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were facing at that time but that need of kind
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of actually the risk of not doing this feels bigger
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because I don't know how I'm going to get to
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where I want to in my life if I don't
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start taking some big moves. And I think that that
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actually is exactly in parallel with what you've just said
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in that when you create a life in which taking
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risks is the only option, then you start making those
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moves at a much higher rate and with much more
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enthusiasm because it is your kind of one option. So
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I'd love to hear from that point, how did that
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turn into your entrepreneurial journey? Because I can imagine at
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the same time that turning into anything else would have
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still been a leap.
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Well, I think what happened to me, you can fabricate
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this part of the way you can fabricate. Most people
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want to be successful. All your listeners, by asking them
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to put up their hands and say, who wants to
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be successful? Everyone's listening right now because they do. They
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want to make their lives better in all sorts of ways.
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The truth is the only way you make your life
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better is needing it, but you can fabricate it. So
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what happened to me next? Okay, so I started this
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gardening company. I asked someone for help because I didn't
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know what I was doing. And they said they would
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only help me if I paid them. And that was
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my first experience with a course selling model. And they
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said to me something I'll never forget. They said, if
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you don't pay, you don't pay attention. And I remember
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thinking with all my might, like, listen, I'm desperate for knowledge.
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I don't know what I'm doing. I will pay attention.
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This pay to pay attention is not true. It's pain
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that makes people pay attention is what I discover later.
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If you give people pain, then they pay attention. Sometimes
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money can be a little bit of pain, but the
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truth is I had pain. I needed that knowledge and
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it wouldn't help me unless I paid them. And it
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just stuck with me, which is why I'll never charge
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anyone for help. I will not charge people to get
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help because you can't leave people behind. I was left
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behind because I didn't know what I was doing. So
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my first business failed. So gardening company didn't work. In
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the end, it didn't go as the way I'd like
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it to go. So what happened next? Well, I turned 16.
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I had a national insurance number. I was only homeless
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for eight weeks because this gardening company worked at the
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beginning and made money. I got myself a place to stay.
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I had an address. Now I had a national insurance number.
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I could get a job. And that's what I did.
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I got a job. But it was too late for
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me to enter the working world in that way, in
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the system. I'd woken up. My brain would no longer
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accept the way the world as it was. So I
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got a job in a hotel and In the first
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two weeks of being at the hotel, the phone would
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ring and the receptionist would pick it up and be like, hello,
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I'm sorry, we're full in the hotel today and put
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the phone down. So they were so proud to tell
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the guest who was calling for a room. This is
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before the Internet. Your listeners might not remember this. People
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used to ring hotels. So this is a long time ago.
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Put the phone down. And then I said, why did
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we just hang up on that customer? We could have
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got their details. Maybe next time we can tell them
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if we've got a promotion. And the receptionist was like, well,
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you know, this is what we just would fill up.
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We haven't got time to deal with it. We've got
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guests checking in. So I came up with an idea
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of something called Accommodation Express, where people could ring up
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the hotel that was full and we divert them to
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a telephone number that would find them a hotel in
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the nearby facility. And we get 15% commission for booking
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that room. So otherwise the inquiry wouldn't be wasted. And
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I started my second business, Accommodation Express. But basically once
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that entrepreneur muscle had been woken up in my brain,
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I found it very hard to accept a salary and
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be told what to do. And so I started a
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second business called Accommodation Express. And this did work. This
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made me, in my mind at that time, proper money.
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I made £ 80, 000, which at the time was a huge,
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huge sum of money for me. And I managed to
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make a business work. And so I actually had the
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early days of hotel.com. I actually sold that business too early.
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Another mistake. You do make so many mistakes in the process.
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But I went from, okay, I can get a job now.
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to realising that, no, why would I get a job?
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Why would I sell time? It doesn't make any sense.
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I want to build a brand, not just work for
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someone else's brand. I want to build something where eventually
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I own my time.
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And what were the main emotions that made you kind
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of feel that? Because I totally understand the experience of
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I guess, a certain element more freedom when starting your
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own thing or freedom to think and solve problems the
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way you want to. But I also think that given
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how you were at the time, I can imagine that
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that also would have been a huge call internally to security.
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I think that the way you say it, it feels very,
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oh yeah, of course this is the case. Of course
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I exercised that entrepreneurial muscle once and then I thought, well,
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now I'm an entrepreneur, I have to do things that way.
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I can imagine someone in the exact same situation thinking
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the opposite and going, oh, well, that didn't work after,
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you know, that winter because people didn't need gardeners. So
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I need to find something where even if the business
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struggles a bit more, I'm still being paid. What do
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you think it was that made you think of entrepreneurship
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as the only solution for you? rather than one of
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two solutions where one actually maybe is a little bit
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more security for what had been quite an insecure situation
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for yourself.
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Yeah, I'm thinking back. It's a really interesting point. I
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think there was lots of factors. First of all, I
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think once you've experienced entrepreneurship, one, you realize how hard
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it is. But kind of like exercise or anything, something
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hard makes you stronger if you complete it. So I
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got a bit addicted to the building experience. concept. And
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I enjoy it. I enjoy taking something from nothing and
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making it real. And I got a bit addicted to that.
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So when I was in the job, what was security,
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I guess, which was the salary bit, wasn't enough to
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take away that I would pitch an idea to my
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boss and they would say, no, no, Simon, that's not
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what we do here. That's, you know, we're not going
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to take the inquiries and turn it into a business.
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We are a hotel. We just, we just take bookings,
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you know, sell the conference room, please. You know, that
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type of thing.
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Right.
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So I'd woken up. That's the only way I can
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describe it. My ability to accept commands that didn't make
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sense or opportunities that were being missed, my brain just
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wouldn't accept it anymore. If I hadn't started something that failed,
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I wouldn't have felt that feeling I'm talking about.
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It's so funny because when you say that, that really
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makes me think of what I felt originally when... Because
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I only did 13 months in corporate before I guess
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I became an entrepreneur. And the only reason that happened,
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I think I would have done well more... had I
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started in that corporate world after university. But because I
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did that before university, when I was 18, and the
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one main thing I had issues with in the corporate world,
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I didn't mind the hours, I didn't mind having a boss,
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I didn't mind, or I found it very glamorous. I
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thought it was great. I loved tottering around. I thought
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it was what I wanted to do. The thing that
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frustrated me the most was when things were being done slowly, inefficiently,
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or in a way that didn't make sense to the business.
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And there was no way to change it because it
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was just the way things were done. I think had
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I not got so frustrated with that, I would have
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gone to university, started the businesses as I did and
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still gone back into corporate because I would have thought
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just as I haven't tried entrepreneurship, I haven't tried my
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corporate dream yet. So I need to also see that
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through to see if that's the right thing for me.
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And it's so funny. I always wonder about whether that
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is something that everyone has or whether it's like I
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see it as almost a, I think it could be
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a negative trait in some ways, like the inability to
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put up with things being done badly and just want to,
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even if it takes double the amount of time to
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actually fix the process. Just to not see things being
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done in a stupid way.
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I totally agree.
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Once you get that itch, it means that like anytime
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I talk to a business owner now, anytime I'm speaking
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about a specific problem, even if it's not one I've
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got a business in that area, I'm like, I could
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probably spend an hour talking to you extremely passionately about
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why something doesn't make sense. And that is the essence
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of entrepreneurship.
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I completely agree I think people listening there's um there's
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something about this it's quite important I think to dig
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into you kind of again I believe everyone can be
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an entrepreneur not everyone agrees with me on this but
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I think the thing that we're talking about here it's
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not a skill set thing it's a realization that you
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are in control of things thing and and once you
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have control over your life it's very hard to give
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it back right so it's like I mean I've never
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been to prison but I don't know what it's like
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imagine being released and then You have to follow the
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rules when you're out of prison still again. But being
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in prison was the reason you're not going to commit
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a crime again. I think people don't understand that they
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can control their own destiny. And that includes frustrations in
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your life. So, for example, I only work with people
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I like. I don't have to work with people that
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I don't. have fun with right i don't have to
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whereas in corporate you have to do that why would
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you there's little things right if there's an opportunity in
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the business to make your customers happier by investing a
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bit more you can just do it whereas a finance
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department would say well you know cost covering we're not
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sure we want to do that it's just you can
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do things and i think it's something everyone can do
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and once you experience it you you won't want to
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go back it's a bit like being a parent on
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paper being a parent makes no sense yeah zero so
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i've got an eight-year-old right And when you look at it,
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you're going to lose time. It's going to cost you money.
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You could argue it's stressful. That's why a lot of
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young people aren't having kids now. Because on paper, it
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doesn't make sense. But when you have a kid, you
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have unconditional love. You never experience it until you have
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a kid. I don't have unconditional love for my parents
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or my family or my friends. You have conditional love.
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But when you have a kid of your own, it's
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unconditional love. And having your own business is a similar
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kind of thing. You just have control and you have
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unconditional love for it. And that can't be had via logic.
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Salary makes sense logically, but the upside is capped. That's obvious.
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But the control is the most beautiful thing. Own your hours.
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You and I can stop this podcast right now and
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just go for lunch if we want. We have that power.
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Why would you not want that? That's total freedom. That's
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totally out of the prison. Freedom, right?
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Oh, see, that's where we differ. I think that, like,
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I completely understand that logic. And I think it makes
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total sense. I don't, and maybe it's because I have
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investor-backed businesses. I mean, not all of my businesses are investor-backed.
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And maybe it's because, I don't know, maybe it's the
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way I see things or, like, whatever it might be.
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But I don't believe there's any job in which you
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don't have a boss. I think that, and where you
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have total freedom.
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By the way, I agree with you.
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I have a bosses too because that's the thing is
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in like what I don't want people to do is
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to start a business purely because they don't want a
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boss I think that that is one thing that it
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can be a big reason and you can still make
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it big and you can still do incredible things but
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you're always going to have a boss like my my
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boss is the customers it's the investors it's the money
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we've put into the cash flow of ordering certain things.
397
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So yeah, we could go for lunch, but actually if
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we don't do the thing that needs to be done
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in order to make the marketing happen to do that,
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then you're fucked and you go back to having a
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different type of boss or whatever it might be. I
402
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so strongly believe that there are different jobs for different
403
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people in that if you're risk averse in a way
404
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that it makes you anxious to be ever in a
405
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situation where there is more risk rather than it making
406
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you hungry. then maybe it's not the right thing for you.
407
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Maybe your better version of a boss is a traditional
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boss versus all of these different things that, yeah, one
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day you might feel total freedom, the next day it
410
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might come slamming down on you and you realize that
411
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you're now in hundreds of thousands worth of debt or
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whatever it might be. I do totally agree with you
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that most people assume that the way they're doing things
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and the way they're making money is the way that
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it has to be and I think that that's far
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more compelling coming from you because I come from a
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much more privileged background and I think that if I
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sit here and say like oh but you could all
419
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do this when actually I will have access to so
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many more things that you know other people might not
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do I think that it points me to the fact
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that actually all I want is as you say for
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people to think more about the opportunities that are actually
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ahead of them and what they're genuinely suited to and
425
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if it is just the fear holding you back rather
426
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than because it's maybe not a go for it like
427
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a hundred percent go for it i.
428
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Agree with what you're saying i think there's always nuance
429
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so when we're having these kind of like uh conversations
430
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let's say about freedom for a second if i walked
431
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out of this podcast right now it would be a
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good clip the podcast would probably do better you'll make
433
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you'll make more money literally if i just walk i'm
434
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leaving this is not the interview i wanted i'm sorry
435
00:20:28.140 --> 00:20:31.869
it's rude i'm not this is gonna help the podcast
436
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right so freedom comes.
437
00:20:35.130 --> 00:20:38.390
You underestimate my um my conviction in myself because if
438
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you think that i.
439
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Would post that no but you know what i mean
440
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like no no if you and i left for lunch
441
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now you've got the wrong investors if they care about
442
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that and if customers don't understand that you know what
443
00:20:48.180 --> 00:20:50.859
we decide just to go for lunch probably got wrong
444
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customers too see so so for me my personal freedom
445
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that i make content personal brand is one of the
446
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hardest things i've ever done i built 19 companies personal
447
00:21:02.230 --> 00:21:04.119
brand building has been the hardest thing I've ever done
448
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why because I'm actually trapped in it I have to
449
00:21:07.819 --> 00:21:10.299
do it every day I work for my team they
450
00:21:10.339 --> 00:21:12.660
tell me when I have to record I want to
451
00:21:12.680 --> 00:21:15.099
have breakfast with my family this morning Dudley my team
452
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wanted to meet me at 7am because we're doing a
453
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documentary on university and he wanted me to record so
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I kind of work for them but what I'm getting
455
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to is like having said all of that I do
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have freedom because it's my choice to do that Yeah,
457
00:21:28.730 --> 00:21:31.170
it's like a choosing your heart. And this is what's important.
458
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And I'm not glamorizing it. I'm not saying it's an
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easier life. And I agree with you. I have a boss.
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The team that I work for tell me what to do.
461
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I have a boss. The dream is that I promise
462
00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:43.839
to help, right? I have a boss, my wife, right?
463
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I have plenty of bosses, but all of them are
464
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aligned with my values. And if today I want a
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day off, I will do it. And yes, that might
466
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mean the income of the business drops a bit, but
467
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we have to have freedom. And I think that's what
468
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I don't like about the present system. People at nine
469
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o'clock turn up, finish at three. Quickly, I'll say the
470
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other side of it. I love data. And I'm looking
471
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at the data at the moment of 700,000 university students
472
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that have come out of university with an on average debt, 58,000 pounds,
473
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spent four years of their life in university, promised a job.
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No job. They can't find a job.
475
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700,000 kids.
476
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There are 9,500 graduate jobs for those kids.
477
00:22:18.289 --> 00:22:18.569
Okay.
478
00:22:18.589 --> 00:22:26.660
So there's not enough jobs. And they're sitting there, many
479
00:22:26.700 --> 00:22:29.369
on social benefit, very talented, probably a lot of them
480
00:22:29.380 --> 00:22:32.750
are your listeners, ready to go. And the job doesn't exist.
481
00:22:33.390 --> 00:22:35.650
So my argument now, and I've been making this argument
482
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for six years, but now I've got data to back
483
00:22:37.250 --> 00:22:40.069
me up. We want to give people the chance to
484
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create their own job until they find one. Let's put
485
00:22:42.950 --> 00:22:45.099
it that way. Until they find the safe job with
486
00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:50.299
the perfect boss and the perfect customers, great. But we
487
00:22:50.319 --> 00:22:51.480
want to give people a chance to create their own job.
488
00:22:51.559 --> 00:22:53.480
And my version of entrepreneurship might be a little bit
489
00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:55.500
different to how you and I are operating. You and
490
00:22:55.519 --> 00:22:58.980
I operating, I've got investors in my businesses. Sure, we're
491
00:22:59.019 --> 00:23:01.269
operating a different type of entrepreneurship, but there's different types
492
00:23:01.309 --> 00:23:04.450
of entrepreneurship. I met someone yesterday who can't find a job.
493
00:23:04.569 --> 00:23:07.609
They've lost all their confidence. They have no confidence. I
494
00:23:07.630 --> 00:23:08.990
said to him, what do you love to do? I
495
00:23:09.029 --> 00:23:11.670
love to walk dogs. I'm like, start a dog walking business.
496
00:23:11.690 --> 00:23:14.269
I have a working caucus manual. that needs walking all
497
00:23:14.289 --> 00:23:15.970
the time. I'll pay you to walk my dog. And
498
00:23:16.009 --> 00:23:18.710
I'm not the only one that needs that. So if
499
00:23:18.750 --> 00:23:20.369
you love walking dogs, why don't you just do that
500
00:23:20.410 --> 00:23:22.450
for now? Make a little bit of money, have some fun,
501
00:23:22.670 --> 00:23:25.299
build a little fun business that probably will fail. But
502
00:23:25.619 --> 00:23:27.059
people need to create their own job when there isn't one.
503
00:23:27.579 --> 00:23:30.019
And that's what I'm getting to now. Entrepreneurship is the
504
00:23:30.039 --> 00:23:31.680
wrong word. It's a French word. It's the wrong word.
505
00:23:31.700 --> 00:23:33.140
I'm trying to think of a better word. But it's like,
506
00:23:33.779 --> 00:23:36.059
go out there and do something with your talents. The
507
00:23:36.079 --> 00:23:38.119
thing you love, match it with the thing that you
508
00:23:39.490 --> 00:23:41.920
You think that you're good at, you know, and so
509
00:23:41.940 --> 00:23:43.500
don't wait for someone to give you the keys to
510
00:23:43.519 --> 00:23:45.980
a better life by giving you a job. And so
511
00:23:46.440 --> 00:23:48.720
I think that I don't want to glamorize entrepreneurship. I've
512
00:23:48.759 --> 00:23:50.960
never said it was easy. I think working for yourself
513
00:23:51.019 --> 00:23:52.859
is hard at the beginning, does get easier over time.
514
00:23:53.599 --> 00:23:55.180
Working for someone else is easy at the beginning, gets
515
00:23:55.240 --> 00:23:57.500
harder over time. Let's face it. So people get a
516
00:23:57.539 --> 00:24:00.220
new boss come in. Oh, I'm new. I'm doing things differently.
517
00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:02.119
I don't care that you work till midnight every day
518
00:24:02.140 --> 00:24:04.440
for the last three years. I'm the new boss and
519
00:24:04.480 --> 00:24:06.049
I need to see that you're good enough. Oh, I'll
520
00:24:06.069 --> 00:24:08.119
bring my old team in and you're out. I know
521
00:24:08.140 --> 00:24:10.079
people that have worked in companies 10 years, like Oracle
522
00:24:10.119 --> 00:24:13.640
just laid off 30,000 people. They built that company. They're gone.
523
00:24:13.900 --> 00:24:16.220
They're out. They own nothing. So to me, it's like,
524
00:24:16.339 --> 00:24:19.549
why not give people this one other option, which is entrepreneurship,
525
00:24:19.660 --> 00:24:21.609
for want of a better word, a chance to do
526
00:24:21.670 --> 00:24:24.150
something you love every day. Forget the money. If you
527
00:24:24.170 --> 00:24:26.349
can just pay your bills, that's a win. If you're
528
00:24:26.369 --> 00:24:27.269
doing something you love every day.
529
00:24:27.569 --> 00:24:29.630
I totally agree with that. I also think the one
530
00:24:29.670 --> 00:24:32.829
thing that, on top of that, that people miss in
531
00:24:32.890 --> 00:24:36.500
what you're saying is the end failure of the business...
532
00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:39.500
for example, so say your gardening business or a dog
533
00:24:39.539 --> 00:24:42.349
walking business or whatever it might be, that is no
534
00:24:42.380 --> 00:24:45.849
different from just leaving a job. Whereas that carries so
535
00:24:45.910 --> 00:24:48.950
much more weight for people. Like if I start something
536
00:24:48.970 --> 00:24:51.789
and it doesn't go on to be this massive thing
537
00:24:51.849 --> 00:24:54.150
and scale in all these different ways and all of this,
538
00:24:54.650 --> 00:24:57.039
if it gave you a job for those few months
539
00:24:57.259 --> 00:25:00.019
or for that year or for those few years or
540
00:25:00.039 --> 00:25:02.579
for that fucking week, like you earned some extra money,
541
00:25:03.259 --> 00:25:05.400
that was still success for the purpose that it served
542
00:25:05.440 --> 00:25:07.609
at the time. And I think that it's so easy.
543
00:25:07.630 --> 00:25:09.730
I think particularly with social media now where you're seeing
544
00:25:09.829 --> 00:25:12.210
so many people do so many incredible things and build
545
00:25:12.349 --> 00:25:15.369
massive companies and all of this, it's really easy to
546
00:25:15.430 --> 00:25:18.849
think that actually the solution you're looking for has to
547
00:25:18.910 --> 00:25:23.779
be this big bolt wheel reinvention type thing. When in reality,
548
00:25:23.880 --> 00:25:26.940
the large majority of businesses, A, didn't start like that. B,
549
00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:28.940
not every business needs to be the biggest business in
550
00:25:28.980 --> 00:25:32.170
the world. Like, If your business's aim is to keep
551
00:25:32.210 --> 00:25:35.619
you afloat and to mean that you can, as you say,
552
00:25:36.130 --> 00:25:39.319
maybe choose your hours, maybe do something you love, maybe
553
00:25:39.339 --> 00:25:40.880
be on your feet rather than be at a desk,
554
00:25:40.960 --> 00:25:44.019
whatever it might be that motivates you, that is still
555
00:25:44.039 --> 00:25:46.980
a version of success. And I think so many people
556
00:25:47.019 --> 00:25:49.319
are put off by this idea of kind of where
557
00:25:49.339 --> 00:25:50.680
does it go in a few years? That used to
558
00:25:50.700 --> 00:25:53.839
be my biggest thing when I started my first company
559
00:25:53.859 --> 00:25:56.099
and when I first came out of university. I was
560
00:25:56.140 --> 00:25:57.740
just shit scared. I was like, what do I do
561
00:25:57.769 --> 00:26:00.210
with this company in 10 years, 15 years, 20 years?
562
00:26:00.650 --> 00:26:01.730
Because I was like, oh, I don't know if the
563
00:26:01.750 --> 00:26:03.769
model now would work for it then. It's like, stop
564
00:26:03.829 --> 00:26:06.890
thinking about that. Stop obsessing over where this is in
565
00:26:06.930 --> 00:26:09.500
a few years. Start obsessing with how it's serving you
566
00:26:09.619 --> 00:26:13.099
and the customers and the company now. And I think
567
00:26:13.200 --> 00:26:15.940
that if more people thought about things in the way
568
00:26:15.980 --> 00:26:18.720
that you've just suggested and just said, okay, what would
569
00:26:18.759 --> 00:26:21.160
make my year better? If I didn't work for this
570
00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:23.259
person and if I had a bit more money and
571
00:26:23.299 --> 00:26:26.779
if I was on my feet more, great. There's 100%
572
00:26:26.779 --> 00:26:28.599
something you can do even on top of your existing
573
00:26:28.640 --> 00:26:31.759
job that will get you to that result. It's just
574
00:26:31.859 --> 00:26:34.309
maybe you are being held back by thinking that that's
575
00:26:34.369 --> 00:26:36.730
not gonna, you know, that doesn't put you squarely within
576
00:26:36.789 --> 00:26:39.309
entrepreneurship or that doesn't make you build the type of
577
00:26:39.349 --> 00:26:41.289
company that you're gonna sell. It doesn't need to be
578
00:26:41.329 --> 00:26:45.319
all about The new AI thing and the new tech, whatchamacallit,
579
00:26:45.359 --> 00:26:47.220
and something that's going to be sold to an investor.
580
00:26:47.380 --> 00:26:49.420
Well said, by the way. Thank you. I give a
581
00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:52.440
round of applause. I hope your audience are. You're like
582
00:26:52.480 --> 00:26:54.740
the cooler, younger version of me. I already know that.
583
00:26:54.769 --> 00:26:55.289
Thanks.
584
00:26:55.589 --> 00:26:58.349
Everything you just said, I just want people to replay
585
00:26:58.369 --> 00:27:02.990
it if they could. Just because it doesn't sink in.
586
00:27:03.470 --> 00:27:07.430
If people don't understand the power of your imagination and
587
00:27:07.509 --> 00:27:09.809
do it. If you're sitting there with no job in particular,
588
00:27:10.369 --> 00:27:11.190
please don't give up.
589
00:27:11.450 --> 00:27:11.670
Mm-hmm.
590
00:27:11.829 --> 00:27:15.289
Because that's not your only avenue, right? And so I
591
00:27:15.309 --> 00:27:17.670
just want people to take control, agency over their life
592
00:27:17.710 --> 00:27:20.710
a little bit. Like I did, by luck, by chance,
593
00:27:21.069 --> 00:27:23.359
it happened to me. So I've seen the difference of
594
00:27:23.410 --> 00:27:26.619
having the right mindset and not being a victim. I
595
00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:29.039
could have been a victim. And I was lucky. I
596
00:27:29.059 --> 00:27:31.059
don't know how I didn't end up a victim. But
597
00:27:31.119 --> 00:27:33.980
then I have control over my life. I realised that
598
00:27:34.140 --> 00:27:35.200
I can make my own luck.
599
00:27:35.539 --> 00:27:37.420
And along those lines, what would you say your big
600
00:27:37.460 --> 00:27:39.259
break was? Like, when did you get that big break?
601
00:27:39.279 --> 00:27:42.089
Because you've gone from gardening to starting 19 companies and
602
00:27:42.119 --> 00:27:43.559
having some pretty whopping.
603
00:27:43.309 --> 00:27:46.849
Exits as well. Well, I think luck plays a huge
604
00:27:46.890 --> 00:27:51.269
part in life. But you can hack luck, it turns out.
605
00:27:51.819 --> 00:27:56.180
So you mentioned earlier having, you know, privilege. I've done
606
00:27:56.220 --> 00:27:58.319
a lot of research. I've actually done the world's largest
607
00:27:58.359 --> 00:28:00.400
human survey. I've been saying this, I'm getting away with it,
608
00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:02.529
so I'm going to keep saying it. I've done the
609
00:28:02.549 --> 00:28:06.009
world's largest human survey. I've asked over 10,000 people what
610
00:28:06.029 --> 00:28:07.990
their dream is all over the world. I've been from
611
00:28:08.049 --> 00:28:11.289
Hong Kong to LA to, of course, London. I've asked
612
00:28:11.329 --> 00:28:14.930
people this question and I've kind of discovered something. I've
613
00:28:14.950 --> 00:28:16.829
discovered quite a few things, but one of the mind-blowing
614
00:28:16.869 --> 00:28:20.150
things is the people I find are the happiest people
615
00:28:20.799 --> 00:28:23.420
are often those paid the least, working the longest hours.
616
00:28:24.059 --> 00:28:26.160
And they're not necessarily entrepreneurs, by the way, because I
617
00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:27.680
think a lot of entrepreneurs are also doing it wrong
618
00:28:27.960 --> 00:28:30.940
because they're chasing the big exit statement or they're chasing
619
00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:34.220
the big valuation statement. I think not enough people are
620
00:28:34.240 --> 00:28:37.240
doing what I've seen the most happiest people do. And
621
00:28:37.480 --> 00:28:39.579
the most happiest people I've met in the world that
622
00:28:39.740 --> 00:28:42.069
often tell me what their dream is, they tell me
623
00:28:42.269 --> 00:28:47.609
they're living it. And that is nurses and police and
624
00:28:47.650 --> 00:28:50.859
folks in the fibre grade. Those that are helping other people.
625
00:28:51.210 --> 00:28:53.420
Those that get up every day and they save a life.
626
00:28:53.920 --> 00:28:55.559
Get up every day and make a difference in someone's
627
00:28:55.599 --> 00:28:58.740
life because we're actually tribal. We've kind of forgotten this.
628
00:28:58.799 --> 00:29:01.900
In a slightly materialistic world, it's about the house we've
629
00:29:01.920 --> 00:29:04.039
got and the car we've got. We've forgotten, actually, it's
630
00:29:04.119 --> 00:29:06.599
each other we need. It's very cheesy, but the people
631
00:29:06.619 --> 00:29:08.160
I've seen that are the happiest are the ones that
632
00:29:08.200 --> 00:29:11.779
are serving other people, including entrepreneurs. The entrepreneurs that I
633
00:29:11.819 --> 00:29:14.220
meet that are just trying to be the next Uber,
634
00:29:15.140 --> 00:29:17.690
not that happy, actually. But the ones I see that
635
00:29:17.750 --> 00:29:20.450
are chasing solving a problem in the world, I'm trying
636
00:29:20.470 --> 00:29:23.130
to fix the education system. I am the happiest I've
637
00:29:23.170 --> 00:29:25.380
ever been in my life because I have a mission
638
00:29:25.940 --> 00:29:28.619
beyond me, beyond making money. We make money. We make
639
00:29:28.660 --> 00:29:31.240
a lot of money. But that's not my aim. Ironically,
640
00:29:31.259 --> 00:29:32.640
I think you make more money when your aim is
641
00:29:32.660 --> 00:29:33.839
to bring value to the world, right?
642
00:29:33.859 --> 00:29:33.980
Yeah.
643
00:29:34.339 --> 00:29:37.000
No, it's so true because I 100% agree. I meet
644
00:29:37.039 --> 00:29:40.170
a lot of entrepreneurs who, don't get me wrong, far
645
00:29:40.210 --> 00:29:43.230
better at entrepreneurship than I am because they are looking
646
00:29:43.250 --> 00:29:47.859
at this big problem that's needed for a really niche
647
00:29:48.039 --> 00:29:51.420
tech space, B2B, like all of this. And they think
648
00:29:51.440 --> 00:29:53.819
of an incredible solution and they build it and they
649
00:29:54.019 --> 00:29:55.640
are bringing it to market and they're going for that
650
00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:59.519
big exit. I honestly... do not think anything would make
651
00:29:59.559 --> 00:30:02.000
me more miserable. Like that's not where I get fulfillment
652
00:30:02.039 --> 00:30:04.059
because if the end goal is where the fulfillment comes from,
653
00:30:04.079 --> 00:30:05.519
then I've never been fulfilled a day in my life
654
00:30:05.539 --> 00:30:08.160
because I've not exited a single business other than investments.
655
00:30:08.180 --> 00:30:10.160
Like I'm not, you know, all of that. I think
656
00:30:10.240 --> 00:30:14.619
that even what you say, I think that some people
657
00:30:14.660 --> 00:30:16.140
might listen to that and be like, okay, well, I
658
00:30:16.180 --> 00:30:20.240
don't have an amazing not-for-profit idea or an incredible social
659
00:30:20.289 --> 00:30:22.490
enterprise or whatever it might be. But even on a
660
00:30:22.529 --> 00:30:26.630
micro level, like even none of my businesses are saving lives, right?
661
00:30:27.470 --> 00:30:29.980
When I talk to a Tala customer who's told me
662
00:30:30.019 --> 00:30:33.539
that they have never felt confident in their body until
663
00:30:33.559 --> 00:30:36.099
they've put our clothes on and walked out of that
664
00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:40.119
store feeling like a million bucks. Like that or someone
665
00:30:40.180 --> 00:30:43.279
who's been able to actually get their career on track
666
00:30:43.299 --> 00:30:46.240
through using the productivity method things like or actually being
667
00:30:46.279 --> 00:30:48.019
able to work as a creator full time for the
668
00:30:48.059 --> 00:30:50.630
first time through retrograde, whatever it might be. None of
669
00:30:50.670 --> 00:30:53.170
that is saving lives, but it's still fulfillment because as
670
00:30:53.210 --> 00:30:56.950
you say, being able to solve problems for other people,
671
00:30:57.250 --> 00:31:00.980
whilst also not entirely selfishly solving a problem for yourself
672
00:31:01.059 --> 00:31:02.519
in terms of the type of life you want to have,
673
00:31:02.559 --> 00:31:04.279
the type of work you want to have, the type
674
00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:06.700
of company you want to build, like there is so
675
00:31:06.779 --> 00:31:09.000
much joy in that. And I think that in a
676
00:31:09.079 --> 00:31:11.180
world where we've tried to get rid of as much
677
00:31:11.240 --> 00:31:14.769
friction as possible from literally every area of our lives,
678
00:31:15.109 --> 00:31:18.309
you have to get fulfillment from somewhere. And usually that
679
00:31:18.349 --> 00:31:20.430
comes with a little bit of friction. Usually that comes
680
00:31:20.450 --> 00:31:23.529
with a bit of hard work. And actually, out the
681
00:31:23.569 --> 00:31:26.269
other end, that is when you feel great about things.
682
00:31:26.549 --> 00:31:28.849
I like listening to you talk. Thanks so much.
683
00:31:29.210 --> 00:31:31.349
There's a podcast going on.
684
00:31:31.359 --> 00:31:35.880
Well, tune in. You have a new fan. There's something
685
00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:40.220
about the way you describe things that it's so important.
686
00:31:40.440 --> 00:31:43.319
First of all, I think you are saving lives. I've
687
00:31:43.339 --> 00:31:46.500
actually met people that were inspired by your content that
688
00:31:46.519 --> 00:31:49.400
decided to carry on. With their dream, with their life,
689
00:31:49.460 --> 00:31:50.880
with their hopes and wishes.
690
00:31:51.259 --> 00:31:51.460
Right.
691
00:31:51.839 --> 00:31:54.240
So I wouldn't undervalue yourself for a second.
692
00:31:54.400 --> 00:31:54.619
All right.
693
00:31:54.920 --> 00:31:57.660
You have saved lives. Katie on my team, for example,
694
00:31:57.680 --> 00:31:59.240
has watched your content when she was going through a
695
00:31:59.279 --> 00:32:02.660
hard time and you helped her. Now, I'm telling I'm
696
00:32:02.680 --> 00:32:05.619
telling you right now that what you're doing is more
697
00:32:05.640 --> 00:32:08.160
profound than you perhaps give it credit for. Now, however,
698
00:32:08.220 --> 00:32:10.369
I totally agree with you that people listening, you don't
699
00:32:10.380 --> 00:32:13.210
have to start there. I actually think charity related businesses
700
00:32:13.250 --> 00:32:15.569
are a bit broken. So when I started out six
701
00:32:15.589 --> 00:32:17.890
years ago, my original thinking is maybe I'll get into politics.
702
00:32:17.950 --> 00:32:20.190
I'll go and fix the education system from inside the system.
703
00:32:20.529 --> 00:32:22.210
And then I realized something I know to be true.
704
00:32:22.259 --> 00:32:23.730
You can't put a fire out in a house unless
705
00:32:23.759 --> 00:32:25.680
you're outside the house. So I decided to fix the
706
00:32:25.700 --> 00:32:30.319
education system from outside it. When I first started making content,
707
00:32:30.700 --> 00:32:33.980
what I quickly realized was the first bucket I needed
708
00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:37.079
to fill was my own. So I wanted to help people.
709
00:32:37.099 --> 00:32:38.759
I wanted to feel useful and I wanted to be seen.
710
00:32:39.440 --> 00:32:43.180
my whole journey is a selfish one. I wasn't doing
711
00:32:43.240 --> 00:32:46.029
it to be philanthropic. I wasn't doing it to give back.
712
00:32:46.160 --> 00:32:48.809
I wanted to be useful. I'd sold my company and
713
00:32:48.829 --> 00:32:51.190
I fell into a kind of depression. I'm like, what
714
00:32:51.210 --> 00:32:54.250
am I here for? What's the point? I've done it now.
715
00:32:54.329 --> 00:32:56.950
I'm not poor anymore. I've got, it's not money I need,
716
00:32:57.450 --> 00:33:00.970
but I felt totally lost. And what's the point of
717
00:33:01.009 --> 00:33:03.640
being here? So I started my content series from a
718
00:33:03.660 --> 00:33:06.559
very selfish point of view. Like people were struggling online,
719
00:33:06.599 --> 00:33:09.710
being sold courses that were bullshit, that were just, promise
720
00:33:09.730 --> 00:33:11.990
them to get rich quick so I jumped into TikTok
721
00:33:12.009 --> 00:33:14.150
where they were hearing this bullshit and said that's bullshit
722
00:33:14.500 --> 00:33:16.039
this is how you build a business and so it's
723
00:33:16.140 --> 00:33:18.519
very very selfish it wasn't I wanted to solve a
724
00:33:18.599 --> 00:33:21.539
big problem necessarily at the beginning I built into my
725
00:33:21.579 --> 00:33:23.859
mission but initially I just wanted to solve a problem
726
00:33:23.940 --> 00:33:26.880
I had which was I felt useless I didn't feel
727
00:33:26.900 --> 00:33:28.660
like I was doing any good in the world just
728
00:33:28.720 --> 00:33:31.099
sitting around playing golf driving a fancy car which I
729
00:33:31.140 --> 00:33:32.559
know the listener is going to be oh poor Simon
730
00:33:32.589 --> 00:33:35.190
that must have been hard it was not fun I
731
00:33:35.470 --> 00:33:38.829
had no point to my life so I I think
732
00:33:39.009 --> 00:33:41.690
for profit, for good, by the way, is a really
733
00:33:41.750 --> 00:33:43.890
healthy way to look at a business now going forward.
734
00:33:44.369 --> 00:33:47.740
Fill your own bucket. Make money for yourself. But then
735
00:33:47.799 --> 00:33:50.140
maybe like we do, we take a large proportion of
736
00:33:50.180 --> 00:33:52.559
our profits and we give it to fund people's dreams.
737
00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:57.079
So we've given £ 426, 000 away this year to people to
738
00:33:57.119 --> 00:33:58.769
help them with their dreams. We're not Dragon's Den. We
739
00:33:58.789 --> 00:34:01.609
haven't taken equity. We don't want anything back. And I'm
740
00:34:01.750 --> 00:34:05.130
so like, I feel so happy about that, but it's
741
00:34:05.170 --> 00:34:07.849
filled my bucket first. I get to do something where
742
00:34:07.869 --> 00:34:10.139
I get, I'm useful and I get to be seen.
743
00:34:10.610 --> 00:34:13.079
And then my second priority is like to bring value
744
00:34:13.119 --> 00:34:15.679
to those people and actually deliver on what I promised,
745
00:34:15.699 --> 00:34:17.219
which is to help people with their dreams. You see
746
00:34:17.239 --> 00:34:18.920
what I mean? Like, I think too many people think
747
00:34:18.960 --> 00:34:21.119
it has to be this brilliant idea. No, just start
748
00:34:21.139 --> 00:34:23.920
a gardening company, start car cleaning, whatever it is to
749
00:34:23.940 --> 00:34:26.719
get you going. It doesn't have to be this big,
750
00:34:26.780 --> 00:34:30.570
meaningful thing. You've built into your big, meaningful thing, right?
751
00:34:30.940 --> 00:34:33.500
It's a step by small little steps each day. And
752
00:34:33.539 --> 00:34:35.480
part of it is just trying things, seeing what you
753
00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:36.300
like to do, right?
754
00:34:36.739 --> 00:34:38.539
Yeah, no, I totally agree with that. And I want
755
00:34:38.579 --> 00:34:40.739
to dive into that a little bit because I think
756
00:34:40.780 --> 00:34:45.030
that lots of people listening to this will go, okay, great.
757
00:34:45.090 --> 00:34:47.349
I want to follow my dreams. I've got not a
758
00:34:47.389 --> 00:34:49.610
fucking clue what my dream is. I've always been that
759
00:34:49.630 --> 00:34:51.469
type of person. I've never once known what I want
760
00:34:51.489 --> 00:34:53.269
to do with my life. I've never had a career
761
00:34:53.309 --> 00:34:55.449
I wanted to follow. I've never had a subject I
762
00:34:55.469 --> 00:34:58.510
particularly wanted to do. I've never had like a Any
763
00:34:58.610 --> 00:35:01.719
inkling around like what my life looks like. And I
764
00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:04.800
think that that can be paralyzing at points. Like I
765
00:35:04.820 --> 00:35:08.519
think that that can keep you stuck. So how does
766
00:35:08.559 --> 00:35:11.159
someone listening to this who has no idea what their
767
00:35:11.199 --> 00:35:14.840
dream is even find that out and start setting on
768
00:35:14.860 --> 00:35:15.559
that right path?
769
00:35:15.760 --> 00:35:19.500
Yeah, it's an important question because I ask people what
770
00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:21.480
their dream is. And if you don't know the answer,
771
00:35:21.880 --> 00:35:23.809
my eight year old doesn't know the answer. I ask
772
00:35:23.849 --> 00:35:24.329
him every week.
773
00:35:24.570 --> 00:35:26.829
The 29-year-old person sitting across from you doesn't know.
774
00:35:26.849 --> 00:35:28.659
Yeah, that's what I mean. And do you know what?
775
00:35:28.679 --> 00:35:30.900
There's nothing wrong with not knowing. But I think there
776
00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:33.300
is something wrong with not asking the question. Because in
777
00:35:33.320 --> 00:35:34.920
the school system, and one of the reasons I'm really
778
00:35:34.960 --> 00:35:37.159
upset with the school system, the first question they ask you,
779
00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:39.219
my son was four when they asked him this question.
780
00:35:39.599 --> 00:35:41.360
They asked him, what will you do when you grow up?
781
00:35:42.179 --> 00:35:44.500
I think that's very trapping. He looked at me at
782
00:35:44.519 --> 00:35:46.960
four years old. The teacher was asking him. Suddenly he
783
00:35:47.000 --> 00:35:50.030
has to make me happy. A doctor. A lawyer.
784
00:35:50.050 --> 00:35:50.190
Yeah.
785
00:35:51.260 --> 00:35:53.940
What's going to make the teacher happy, the parent happy?
786
00:35:54.340 --> 00:35:56.539
Their brain is getting trapped into like a thing that's
787
00:35:56.559 --> 00:35:58.400
going to make us happy, not what's going to make
788
00:35:58.579 --> 00:36:01.449
them happy. It's the wrong question. I think the question
789
00:36:01.489 --> 00:36:03.230
we should be asking ourselves when we're young is what
790
00:36:03.269 --> 00:36:05.030
problem we'd like to solve. If we ask ourselves what
791
00:36:05.070 --> 00:36:07.469
problem we'd like to solve, the brain opens up a bit.
792
00:36:08.010 --> 00:36:09.849
And so it's opening up the brain is partly why
793
00:36:09.869 --> 00:36:11.590
I ask people what their dream is. Most people don't
794
00:36:11.639 --> 00:36:14.340
know what the answer is unless they're Americans. Everybody in
795
00:36:14.360 --> 00:36:15.159
America needs the answer.
796
00:36:15.699 --> 00:36:15.940
I know.
797
00:36:15.960 --> 00:36:16.780
What do they put in the water?
798
00:36:16.880 --> 00:36:17.219
I don't know.
799
00:36:17.619 --> 00:36:20.179
But everybody in America has a dream. Every single person.
800
00:36:20.239 --> 00:36:22.780
You know why? Because we wake up into the world
801
00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:25.380
of America. And the first thing is the American dream.
802
00:36:25.420 --> 00:36:28.800
What's yours? And it's so America, in fairness, for all
803
00:36:28.860 --> 00:36:32.340
its flaws, is one of the most forward thinking entrepreneurial
804
00:36:32.360 --> 00:36:36.920
places in the world. And, you know, we as British people,
805
00:36:37.300 --> 00:36:39.809
I think we do admire America. But we don't get
806
00:36:39.889 --> 00:36:42.690
asked that question in Britain. We are literally, what job
807
00:36:42.710 --> 00:36:44.409
will you do when you grow up? We're not asking
808
00:36:44.429 --> 00:36:46.369
what your dream is. I think I've begun to change
809
00:36:46.389 --> 00:36:48.590
the narrative in this country because I think people are asking,
810
00:36:48.610 --> 00:36:50.800
oh God, I might bump into Simon Squibb. I wonder
811
00:36:50.820 --> 00:36:51.480
what my dream is.
812
00:36:51.500 --> 00:36:53.019
I hope Simon Squibb doesn't stop me.
813
00:36:53.019 --> 00:36:56.099
Yeah, exactly. And the thing is, the irony is that,
814
00:36:56.219 --> 00:36:57.880
you know, just asking the question is a good first
815
00:36:57.920 --> 00:37:00.039
step and there's nothing wrong. It could be your whole life.
816
00:37:00.059 --> 00:37:01.719
You spend your whole life discovering it. And what I
817
00:37:01.760 --> 00:37:04.909
see is categories. The first category is people that absolutely
818
00:37:04.949 --> 00:37:06.309
know what they want. And there are a lot of
819
00:37:06.329 --> 00:37:08.199
your listeners that will know that. They know what they're
820
00:37:08.230 --> 00:37:09.989
meant to do. They know what they're good at. And
821
00:37:10.010 --> 00:37:11.389
they know that they could go out there in the
822
00:37:11.429 --> 00:37:13.150
world and do good with that thing they're good at.
823
00:37:13.469 --> 00:37:15.250
But they're not doing it. And I think that's because
824
00:37:15.269 --> 00:37:18.210
they want to do it and make it a need.
825
00:37:18.550 --> 00:37:21.090
Those people. The second category is people that have an inkling.
826
00:37:21.969 --> 00:37:23.389
But most of the time those people are caught in
827
00:37:23.429 --> 00:37:27.039
fight or flight. They're so busy with their life. And
828
00:37:27.260 --> 00:37:30.039
what they've been told to do. Rent an expensive flat
829
00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:33.079
in London. Get a fancy car. They got trapped in
830
00:37:33.119 --> 00:37:37.090
this materialistic treadmill of... that they don't have time to
831
00:37:37.130 --> 00:37:39.010
activate the creative part of their brain that could give
832
00:37:39.030 --> 00:37:41.809
them a step-by-step guide to make their vague dream in
833
00:37:41.829 --> 00:37:45.070
their head a reality. The third category is people that
834
00:37:45.110 --> 00:37:47.380
just have no idea. And I don't think, I think
835
00:37:47.400 --> 00:37:48.960
you're in the second category, but let's put you in
836
00:37:48.980 --> 00:37:49.559
the third category.
837
00:37:49.579 --> 00:37:50.900
I'll put me in the third category.
838
00:37:51.119 --> 00:37:53.960
Most of the time, your end purpose, you'll connect the
839
00:37:53.980 --> 00:37:56.719
dots bone backwards. But most of the time, you're just
840
00:37:56.739 --> 00:37:58.969
solving a pain point for yourself that you have in life.
841
00:37:59.010 --> 00:38:02.150
So in other words, your purpose is in your pain, right?
842
00:38:02.469 --> 00:38:04.840
My purpose is in my pain. The 15-year-old me that
843
00:38:04.900 --> 00:38:06.320
asked for help and the only way I could get
844
00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:08.179
help is with money. And I didn't have money and
845
00:38:08.199 --> 00:38:10.800
I desperately needed help. I'm never letting that happen again
846
00:38:10.840 --> 00:38:13.969
to another 15-year-old. Second thing is, no one told me
847
00:38:13.989 --> 00:38:16.929
about entrepreneurship at school. Like, this is painful for me.
848
00:38:17.090 --> 00:38:19.050
Why did I have to spend five, six, seven years
849
00:38:19.489 --> 00:38:21.969
failing at it when I could have been taught 13
850
00:38:21.969 --> 00:38:24.309
years prior in school about it a little bit. How
851
00:38:24.349 --> 00:38:26.679
to sell. How to communicate. I could be an introvert
852
00:38:26.699 --> 00:38:28.639
or an extrovert. You can sell, right?
853
00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:29.039
Money.
854
00:38:29.119 --> 00:38:33.699
How money works. No one told me. So, my pain...
855
00:38:34.019 --> 00:38:36.800
has led me to, at 52 years old, to go
856
00:38:36.860 --> 00:38:40.820
on TikTok and not dance. You know what I mean?
857
00:38:41.019 --> 00:38:41.760
It's led me.
858
00:38:41.679 --> 00:38:42.219
To do things.
859
00:38:42.239 --> 00:38:44.300
Terrible, so should get back on the dance. Yeah, I
860
00:38:44.320 --> 00:38:46.929
probably should. But back to your point, it's been painful.
861
00:38:47.170 --> 00:38:49.170
I was very embarrassed going on TikTok at the beginning.
862
00:38:49.690 --> 00:38:51.550
And all of my peers, I'm part of a group
863
00:38:51.590 --> 00:38:53.630
of people that have all sold their company. Everyone's like,
864
00:38:53.670 --> 00:38:55.510
what are you doing? Oh, I'm buying real estate and
865
00:38:55.550 --> 00:38:57.889
renting it out. I'm buying buildings and converting them into this.
866
00:38:58.349 --> 00:39:01.840
What are you doing, Simon? I'm on TikTok talking about business.
867
00:39:01.880 --> 00:39:02.360
They're like, what?
868
00:39:02.980 --> 00:39:06.380
I was so embarrassed for so long doing it, but
869
00:39:06.420 --> 00:39:07.860
I knew it was how I was going to reach
870
00:39:08.360 --> 00:39:10.960
young people in particular. When school wouldn't let me go
871
00:39:11.019 --> 00:39:12.940
in and teach entrepreneurship, I'll go to where the kids
872
00:39:12.960 --> 00:39:15.980
are learning naturally on YouTube, on TikTok. Like it or not,
873
00:39:16.039 --> 00:39:18.239
I think social media is one of the most exciting
874
00:39:18.280 --> 00:39:21.230
opportunities for young people today to build a life they want.
875
00:39:21.789 --> 00:39:25.050
Everyone's so down on social media. I think it's liberating.
876
00:39:25.590 --> 00:39:27.590
I think it's one of the most amazing tools, along
877
00:39:27.610 --> 00:39:30.510
with AI and your phone and Wi-Fi, you can literally
878
00:39:30.590 --> 00:39:33.480
sit here right now after this podcast and you can
879
00:39:33.519 --> 00:39:36.460
start something. You can do one video that could go viral.
880
00:39:36.480 --> 00:39:38.380
I'm not saying it will. It could. It's not about
881
00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:39.980
how many followers you've got. It's about how good the
882
00:39:40.019 --> 00:39:41.800
hook is, how good the video is. You could get
883
00:39:41.840 --> 00:39:44.579
millions of views on a product ID you've got now, today,
884
00:39:44.940 --> 00:39:47.079
in this moment. Like there's never been a time in
885
00:39:47.099 --> 00:39:49.219
history like it. And then you can get AI to
886
00:39:49.260 --> 00:39:51.300
help you organize everything in the back office. You don't
887
00:39:51.320 --> 00:39:53.320
need to hire a CFO anymore. I used to have
888
00:39:53.340 --> 00:39:54.840
to hire a CFO when I started a business. I
889
00:39:54.880 --> 00:39:56.780
used to have to get a proper manager of the
890
00:39:56.800 --> 00:39:58.599
business in. No, not anymore. You don't need those things.
891
00:39:59.199 --> 00:40:02.440
Like it's so liberating if people realize it. Everyone's too
892
00:40:02.480 --> 00:40:04.719
focused on the negative. Social media is addictive.
893
00:40:04.800 --> 00:40:04.989
Yep.
894
00:40:05.219 --> 00:40:06.869
Get control of addiction. Food's addictive.
895
00:40:06.929 --> 00:40:07.110
Yep.
896
00:40:07.230 --> 00:40:09.570
Get control of addiction. Be careful you don't get addicted
897
00:40:09.590 --> 00:40:12.840
to things. People, oh, it's, you know, it's cost of living. Yes,
898
00:40:12.880 --> 00:40:14.880
it's expensive. So you have to fight, don't you? You
899
00:40:14.900 --> 00:40:17.539
don't just want it, you need it. So yeah, go
900
00:40:17.579 --> 00:40:19.280
out there and make the world a better place. You
901
00:40:19.300 --> 00:40:20.860
know what I mean? Like people need to take control.
902
00:40:20.880 --> 00:40:24.079
Instead of all the problems, they realise that you've got
903
00:40:24.460 --> 00:40:26.440
social media at your fingertips. You can reach millions of
904
00:40:26.460 --> 00:40:28.840
people today. You've got AI to help you build a business.
905
00:40:28.860 --> 00:40:31.289
You've got knowledge from you and me and other people
906
00:40:31.309 --> 00:40:34.730
that we never had so much free, good knowledge available
907
00:40:34.989 --> 00:40:37.170
to go out there and follow your dreams. At least
908
00:40:37.289 --> 00:40:39.010
ask yourself the question, what is your dream? Even if
909
00:40:39.030 --> 00:40:42.429
you don't action it today, just asking it might wake
910
00:40:42.489 --> 00:40:44.550
up that entrepreneurial muscle in your brain and give you
911
00:40:44.570 --> 00:40:46.070
that bit between the teeth to go and do it
912
00:40:46.530 --> 00:40:49.070
or not, but it's worth trying. Give yourself pain is
913
00:40:49.090 --> 00:40:51.809
probably my end conclusion. I went and traveled the world
914
00:40:52.130 --> 00:40:55.019
and I saw things that were a problem. I've got friends,
915
00:40:55.039 --> 00:40:57.940
for example, who built businesses. They went to Thailand, they
916
00:40:57.980 --> 00:41:00.639
saw plastic in the water. They're like, that's not right.
917
00:41:01.000 --> 00:41:02.579
And they go away and they build a business where
918
00:41:02.639 --> 00:41:05.619
water's sold without it being in plastic can of water. Josh,
919
00:41:05.679 --> 00:41:08.409
my friend there. So what I'm saying is like, You
920
00:41:08.429 --> 00:41:10.550
go see pain in the world and you come back
921
00:41:10.650 --> 00:41:12.840
and you're annoyed at that pain and you fix it.
922
00:41:13.210 --> 00:41:15.690
So anyone listening that doesn't have pain probably means they
923
00:41:15.710 --> 00:41:17.829
don't have a dream. They should go give themselves some pain.
924
00:41:18.110 --> 00:41:21.510
I really like the idea that you, when you're not
925
00:41:21.570 --> 00:41:24.710
happy in your life, a lot of people automatically think
926
00:41:24.769 --> 00:41:28.070
it's because their life is too hard. And I do
927
00:41:28.110 --> 00:41:30.530
not take that away from people. 100% lots of people
928
00:41:30.550 --> 00:41:32.889
will be in that situation. I think a lot of
929
00:41:32.929 --> 00:41:37.949
the time now, modern life, reduced friction, massive convenience. I
930
00:41:37.969 --> 00:41:39.670
think a lot of people aren't happy because their life
931
00:41:39.750 --> 00:41:41.489
is too easy and a lot of the things that
932
00:41:41.550 --> 00:41:44.409
actually make them fulfilled day to day or the things
933
00:41:44.429 --> 00:41:46.130
that they need to overcome to get to X, Y,
934
00:41:46.269 --> 00:41:48.889
Z or to make their lunch or to get wherever
935
00:41:48.909 --> 00:41:51.429
or whatever is taking away the actual process, which is
936
00:41:51.449 --> 00:41:54.880
taking away the whole journey. And it's not good for
937
00:41:54.940 --> 00:41:57.889
our heads. Like it is not good for our mental
938
00:41:57.929 --> 00:42:00.389
health to have that lack of friction. And I love
939
00:42:00.510 --> 00:42:03.869
that you put that spin on your positioning of kind
940
00:42:03.889 --> 00:42:06.329
of like maybe you're too comfortable. If you put yourself
941
00:42:06.349 --> 00:42:08.630
in a position where you have need, you will do
942
00:42:08.690 --> 00:42:09.289
amazing things.
943
00:42:09.309 --> 00:42:09.710
Yeah.
944
00:42:12.460 --> 00:42:15.159
This is David and John from the David McWilliams podcast
945
00:42:15.519 --> 00:42:18.079
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946
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ACAST recommends.
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Hi.
975
00:43:32.289 --> 00:43:34.449
I'm Ryan Tuberty, and for those who don't know, I
976
00:43:34.510 --> 00:43:37.309
love books and I love a great story. And on
977
00:43:37.329 --> 00:43:39.929
my podcast, The Bookshelf with Ryan Tuberty, I sit down
978
00:43:39.989 --> 00:43:42.400
with fascinating people and we talk about the books that
979
00:43:42.440 --> 00:43:45.039
have shaped their lives and the stories behind them. We
980
00:43:45.079 --> 00:43:47.119
talk about the book they loved as a child, the
981
00:43:47.139 --> 00:43:49.619
book that brings them joy, and the book that changed
982
00:43:49.780 --> 00:43:50.239
their life.
983
00:43:50.599 --> 00:43:51.900
Over the seasons, I've chatted.
984
00:43:51.659 --> 00:43:55.119
To world leaders, cultural icons, sports stars, and some of
985
00:43:55.159 --> 00:43:58.199
my favorite authors. Well, season five is now available, so
986
00:43:58.260 --> 00:44:00.230
if you love books, if you love stories, and you
987
00:44:00.250 --> 00:44:02.869
love great conversations, come and join me on the bookshelf
988
00:44:03.110 --> 00:44:05.869
every Tuesday. Watch on YouTube or indeed listen wherever you
989
00:44:05.889 --> 00:44:06.570
get your podcasts.
990
00:44:07.170 --> 00:44:11.130
Acast is home to the world's best podcasts, including Red Room,
991
00:44:11.650 --> 00:44:14.340
Catch Up with Louise McSharry, and the one you're listening
992
00:44:14.360 --> 00:44:22.219
to right now. And what about someone who's listening and
993
00:44:22.260 --> 00:44:26.400
they are in, let's say one example, they are in
994
00:44:27.239 --> 00:44:29.750
the corporate world. They know they don't want to be there.
995
00:44:30.030 --> 00:44:32.469
They know they want to do something else at some point,
996
00:44:33.110 --> 00:44:35.929
but they genuinely do not know how to get off
997
00:44:35.969 --> 00:44:38.539
that treadmill in a way that I'm not sure I
998
00:44:38.579 --> 00:44:42.619
would either in terms of security of salary, in terms
999
00:44:42.679 --> 00:44:44.980
of a mortgage they're paying or the rent they're paying
1000
00:44:45.019 --> 00:44:47.500
or the kids they're looking after, whatever it might be.
1001
00:44:48.380 --> 00:44:52.489
How do they start to formulate a plan or start
1002
00:44:52.510 --> 00:44:55.489
to formulate some movement that helps them start to follow
1003
00:44:55.510 --> 00:44:55.829
their dream?
1004
00:44:56.250 --> 00:45:00.070
So I spent two years writing a book answering this question.
1005
00:45:00.550 --> 00:45:01.860
So I wrote a book called What's Your Dream? And
1006
00:45:01.880 --> 00:45:04.699
I put in there a step-by-step guide for exactly this
1007
00:45:04.739 --> 00:45:08.059
demographic of people. And in a nutshell, so you don't
1008
00:45:08.079 --> 00:45:10.320
need to buy the book, is... Buy the book, guys.
1009
00:45:10.340 --> 00:45:14.070
Buy the book, link down below. But the basic crux
1010
00:45:14.130 --> 00:45:17.150
of it is a combination of things. First of all,
1011
00:45:17.670 --> 00:45:20.389
you need to build a bit of a boat for yourself,
1012
00:45:20.449 --> 00:45:24.469
like six months, maybe even a year of savings. Get
1013
00:45:24.510 --> 00:45:27.219
your costs down. Because these things, even if you don't
1014
00:45:27.360 --> 00:45:30.170
make the leap, just less pressure... to have to have
1015
00:45:30.230 --> 00:45:32.849
the job, the better. You don't ever want to be
1016
00:45:32.969 --> 00:45:34.750
forced into having the job. So when people get big
1017
00:45:34.789 --> 00:45:37.380
mortgages and they get big car loans and they get
1018
00:45:37.489 --> 00:45:39.400
big credit card debt, what they're really doing is they're
1019
00:45:39.420 --> 00:45:42.639
now working for those organizations, right? On top of the job,
1020
00:45:42.800 --> 00:45:45.599
they're working in the job to then pay those organizations.
1021
00:45:45.980 --> 00:45:47.780
So just get your costs down. In general, I think
1022
00:45:47.800 --> 00:45:49.780
this is a good bit of advice, but then it
1023
00:45:49.800 --> 00:45:51.659
will allow you to come out of fight or flight
1024
00:45:51.940 --> 00:45:53.280
because a lot of people are in fight or flight.
1025
00:45:53.300 --> 00:45:55.380
You've got big bills to pay. You need this job.
1026
00:45:55.400 --> 00:45:58.639
There's no questioning it because you need it. Second step,
1027
00:45:59.039 --> 00:46:02.500
I think the thing that I've seen work for most
1028
00:46:02.559 --> 00:46:07.719
people is imagine you're 92 years old and you didn't
1029
00:46:08.039 --> 00:46:10.230
try it. You didn't do it. You won't be able
1030
00:46:10.250 --> 00:46:12.780
to go back to that 40-year-old you. It's too late.
1031
00:46:13.400 --> 00:46:16.719
You're 92, wondering what could have been. You never want
1032
00:46:16.739 --> 00:46:20.360
to live a regret. You can live later in life
1033
00:46:20.619 --> 00:46:23.590
quite poor. I've just seen New Zealand, amazing facilities out there.
1034
00:46:23.630 --> 00:46:25.590
If you're older and you're poor, you still have a
1035
00:46:25.610 --> 00:46:28.409
pretty nice life. I was just there. So there are
1036
00:46:28.449 --> 00:46:30.829
ways to live without lots of money in life. You've
1037
00:46:30.849 --> 00:46:32.670
got people around you that love you and all these things.
1038
00:46:33.030 --> 00:46:36.260
The point I'm making is you can't live with regret, though.
1039
00:46:37.170 --> 00:46:39.789
Like everything I've ever done, every idea I've ever had,
1040
00:46:39.889 --> 00:46:41.789
I've done. I'm never going to sit there at 92
1041
00:46:41.789 --> 00:46:44.469
and say, I wonder if I'd done that, what would
1042
00:46:44.489 --> 00:46:46.780
have happened? Well, I'm about to launch a drinks brand.
1043
00:46:46.800 --> 00:46:49.639
I'm pretty scared. But I know I can help millions
1044
00:46:49.659 --> 00:46:51.619
of people if it works. And I don't want to
1045
00:46:51.659 --> 00:46:53.900
live with regret that I didn't try. Now, it might fail.
1046
00:46:54.039 --> 00:46:56.260
And this Simon Squibb guru guy is going to be
1047
00:46:56.280 --> 00:46:58.260
on the front page of the newspaper as a complete failure.
1048
00:46:58.320 --> 00:47:00.610
And that does worry me. But I'm also OK with
1049
00:47:00.650 --> 00:47:02.550
it because I don't want to live with regret. Even
1050
00:47:02.590 --> 00:47:04.590
if it's a failure, at least I have a good story.
1051
00:47:05.150 --> 00:47:07.789
And I won't be at 92 wondering, what if? So
1052
00:47:07.849 --> 00:47:10.769
anyone listening, don't be that 92 year old with regret.
1053
00:47:11.230 --> 00:47:13.769
Forward now in your mind, imagine, close your eyes, imagine
1054
00:47:13.789 --> 00:47:15.829
you're 92, you had an idea and you didn't do it.
1055
00:47:16.230 --> 00:47:18.449
Or you wonder what it was like to work as
1056
00:47:18.469 --> 00:47:21.309
an entrepreneur. Try it for a year. You can go
1057
00:47:21.389 --> 00:47:23.349
back to the job. The good thing about people that
1058
00:47:23.369 --> 00:47:25.230
are listening now who have that job you're talking about,
1059
00:47:25.809 --> 00:47:28.130
they're probably okay to get the job again. Now it's
1060
00:47:28.289 --> 00:47:31.550
people with no experience like these university grads. I'm worried
1061
00:47:31.590 --> 00:47:33.769
about them because they don't have experience and they don't
1062
00:47:33.789 --> 00:47:36.000
know how to start a business. But frankly, if you've
1063
00:47:36.059 --> 00:47:38.119
got an OK job right now, you can take a
1064
00:47:38.159 --> 00:47:43.019
year out and try it. This crazy entrepreneurship thing, walking
1065
00:47:43.059 --> 00:47:45.599
dogs for a year. Worst is you do 20,000 steps
1066
00:47:45.659 --> 00:47:47.079
a day, you get a little bit more into shape
1067
00:47:47.099 --> 00:47:47.920
and then you get the job again.
1068
00:47:48.900 --> 00:47:50.820
My resting heart rate has never been better than when
1069
00:47:50.840 --> 00:47:51.539
I was doing 20,000 steps.
1070
00:47:51.579 --> 00:47:53.659
That's what I mean. Exactly.
1071
00:47:53.679 --> 00:47:53.780
Yeah.
1072
00:47:53.820 --> 00:47:55.510
And apparently the meaning of life is getting your resting
1073
00:47:55.550 --> 00:47:56.110
heart rate down.
1074
00:47:56.130 --> 00:47:57.210
Exactly. I've heard that too.
1075
00:47:57.250 --> 00:47:58.630
So that kind of makes sense to me.
1076
00:47:58.789 --> 00:47:59.030
Right.
1077
00:47:59.190 --> 00:48:02.280
And so, you know, yeah. But I just think regret
1078
00:48:02.360 --> 00:48:04.659
is such a big thing and people don't think about
1079
00:48:04.679 --> 00:48:07.840
it enough. And people are planning their retirement and they're
1080
00:48:07.860 --> 00:48:10.449
getting their pensions, but they're not thinking about their state
1081
00:48:10.489 --> 00:48:13.530
of mind at that age. And I personally want to
1082
00:48:13.550 --> 00:48:15.769
have tried everything I've ever thought of. Now, that does
1083
00:48:15.849 --> 00:48:18.769
sometimes mean that I'm trying crazy things and I'll probably
1084
00:48:18.849 --> 00:48:21.800
fail many, many more times. So what?
1085
00:48:22.039 --> 00:48:26.039
But I think that is exactly the mindset that... keeps
1086
00:48:26.159 --> 00:48:29.019
you going and keeps you being at this position because
1087
00:48:29.039 --> 00:48:32.719
I think that so many people see this view and
1088
00:48:32.760 --> 00:48:37.139
I've absolutely come from this position originally is seeing success
1089
00:48:37.789 --> 00:48:39.969
as we talked about like as an end goal and
1090
00:48:40.030 --> 00:48:42.550
so it's something that you get to and I think
1091
00:48:42.610 --> 00:48:46.690
so many people will have seen you for example when
1092
00:48:46.750 --> 00:48:49.429
you sold the first company you sold for a hell
1093
00:48:49.469 --> 00:48:52.760
of a lot of money being at that point and
1094
00:48:52.820 --> 00:48:57.000
being successful however there's nothing to say that your life
1095
00:48:57.019 --> 00:49:00.219
would have continued to be enjoyable. Like, yes, it would
1096
00:49:00.239 --> 00:49:03.139
have continued to be frictionless, and probably pretty fucking easy.
1097
00:49:03.400 --> 00:49:06.469
And probably, you know, you wouldn't have to worry about
1098
00:49:06.510 --> 00:49:08.869
a lot of the things that lots of people worry about.
1099
00:49:09.409 --> 00:49:13.550
But maybe it's exactly that mindset that put you into
1100
00:49:13.610 --> 00:49:16.349
entrepreneurship in the first place, that is exactly why you
1101
00:49:16.389 --> 00:49:18.769
are still doing this now. And the reason I say
1102
00:49:18.789 --> 00:49:20.909
that is because I always like one of my favorite
1103
00:49:20.929 --> 00:49:26.429
traits about myself is I am clearly continuously happy to
1104
00:49:26.510 --> 00:49:29.780
put myself out on a limb and do something that
1105
00:49:29.900 --> 00:49:34.110
might maybe even work. wreck my career to a certain
1106
00:49:34.159 --> 00:49:37.300
extent over and over like every single year since the
1107
00:49:37.380 --> 00:49:40.000
start of my career I have started some sort of
1108
00:49:40.039 --> 00:49:43.719
new venture or you know backed something or whatever it
1109
00:49:43.739 --> 00:49:45.760
might be not all of them have worked out like
1110
00:49:46.079 --> 00:49:49.300
whether this is new products within the companies themselves whether
1111
00:49:49.340 --> 00:49:52.400
this is a new venture partnering with someone else whether
1112
00:49:52.440 --> 00:49:53.980
this is and I'm very aware that all of these
1113
00:49:54.000 --> 00:49:55.900
things are very specific to me as areas that I
1114
00:49:55.960 --> 00:50:00.019
could go into but I think that Had I 10, 9,
1115
00:50:00.019 --> 00:50:02.530
8 years ago in the first few years of starting
1116
00:50:02.550 --> 00:50:06.699
my businesses, had I been so happy with that kind
1117
00:50:06.780 --> 00:50:10.440
of the what that had achieved that I'd just been like, great, okay, cool,
1118
00:50:11.119 --> 00:50:14.219
must continue down this trajectory. I wouldn't have half the
1119
00:50:14.260 --> 00:50:18.869
joy I have now, which I think comes from genuinely
1120
00:50:18.909 --> 00:50:21.550
being happy to fail in public over and over and
1121
00:50:21.650 --> 00:50:24.349
over again. Because sometimes I look at it 100%.
1122
00:50:24.349 --> 00:50:25.809
How can we give that to people, isn't it? How
1123
00:50:25.829 --> 00:50:27.409
do we bottle that up? Yeah.
1124
00:50:27.710 --> 00:50:29.750
I mean, I think first, one of the main things
1125
00:50:29.889 --> 00:50:32.369
is talking about it and showing it. Like when I
1126
00:50:32.409 --> 00:50:34.829
first launched this podcast, it was the lowest engagement I
1127
00:50:34.849 --> 00:50:38.389
would get on any content ever, every fucking week, like
1128
00:50:38.650 --> 00:50:40.429
over and over and over. I'd be posting it and
1129
00:50:40.449 --> 00:50:42.250
I'd be like, God, this is so embarrassing. But I
1130
00:50:42.349 --> 00:50:43.849
knew I wanted to do it. And I knew that
1131
00:50:43.889 --> 00:50:46.170
it made a difference to me. And I knew that
1132
00:50:46.210 --> 00:50:47.969
it made a difference to people who wanted to start
1133
00:50:47.989 --> 00:50:51.289
their businesses and wanted to improve their lives. And so
1134
00:50:51.530 --> 00:50:54.409
like it genuinely took about two years for it to
1135
00:50:54.849 --> 00:50:58.449
start being not embarrassing like I don't even mean like
1136
00:50:58.469 --> 00:51:02.449
trajectory like this I mean not embarrassing and same with
1137
00:51:02.510 --> 00:51:04.230
so many other things where it's kind of just like
1138
00:51:04.829 --> 00:51:07.289
okay I could do this it could fail and by
1139
00:51:07.309 --> 00:51:09.829
the way my entire personal brand is linked to having
1140
00:51:09.889 --> 00:51:14.019
successful businesses so probably shouldn't be launching things that might fail.
1141
00:51:14.360 --> 00:51:16.440
And yet every single year, I don't know what it is,
1142
00:51:16.539 --> 00:51:19.360
but there is something inside me that clearly still wants
1143
00:51:19.420 --> 00:51:21.989
to go out on a limb and try and do
1144
00:51:22.010 --> 00:51:25.670
the things. I think the mindset is, okay, that might
1145
00:51:25.710 --> 00:51:27.449
fail and that might be shit and that might really
1146
00:51:27.489 --> 00:51:29.869
affect my personal brand because people would look at me
1147
00:51:29.889 --> 00:51:31.510
and be like, oh, well, that business of hers did
1148
00:51:31.570 --> 00:51:34.010
fail and she's meant to be this kind of business person.
1149
00:51:35.239 --> 00:51:38.590
But it also could be your next massive thing. that
1150
00:51:38.800 --> 00:51:41.150
not only brings you success, but also brings you that
1151
00:51:41.349 --> 00:51:44.429
joy of genuinely still feeling alive because you're still taking
1152
00:51:44.469 --> 00:51:46.730
those risks. And I see so, like, I see so
1153
00:51:46.789 --> 00:51:48.889
much of that in you. The fact that you were
1154
00:51:48.909 --> 00:51:50.690
at a point where you never needed to work again
1155
00:51:51.710 --> 00:51:54.920
and have continuously just been like, great, well, how can
1156
00:51:54.980 --> 00:51:58.360
I still put risk into my life? I feel like
1157
00:51:58.400 --> 00:52:00.039
that's probably where so much of the joy comes from.
1158
00:52:00.059 --> 00:52:00.719
I agree.
1159
00:52:00.739 --> 00:52:02.659
To your point, love the journey. You know, you've got
1160
00:52:02.679 --> 00:52:05.280
to enjoy the process. I really want to give this
1161
00:52:05.320 --> 00:52:07.679
to people, though. If people take something from this podcast,
1162
00:52:07.699 --> 00:52:09.380
it would be what you're talking about here. And I
1163
00:52:10.079 --> 00:52:14.619
wonder if people understood. My wife does kinesiology. It's kind
1164
00:52:14.639 --> 00:52:16.980
of an amazing thing. I never really understood it. But
1165
00:52:17.000 --> 00:52:19.460
it basically helps you understand what the body is telling
1166
00:52:19.500 --> 00:52:21.630
you as opposed to what your mind is telling you.
1167
00:52:21.639 --> 00:52:23.320
It's almost like what your heart says as opposed to
1168
00:52:23.340 --> 00:52:26.550
what your mind says. And in the subconscious, in our
1169
00:52:26.730 --> 00:52:29.400
early years, a lot of stuff gets pre-programmed into us.
1170
00:52:29.949 --> 00:52:32.289
Our subconscious, that's why we don't remember anything often before
1171
00:52:32.309 --> 00:52:34.630
the age of seven, because it's building up our subconscious
1172
00:52:34.650 --> 00:52:37.179
belief systems. And one of the things in the school
1173
00:52:37.219 --> 00:52:40.139
system that starts very early, I homeschool my son because
1174
00:52:40.159 --> 00:52:42.300
of this. I took him out of school. Because in
1175
00:52:42.320 --> 00:52:43.960
the school system, they'll tell you, sit down and do
1176
00:52:43.980 --> 00:52:46.920
an exam on your own. And if you get an A,
1177
00:52:47.519 --> 00:52:49.159
you're a success. If you get a D, we've got
1178
00:52:49.179 --> 00:52:52.019
a serious problem. You're a failure. That's a problem. You're
1179
00:52:52.039 --> 00:52:54.139
going to get into serious trouble. Don't get a D.
1180
00:52:55.139 --> 00:52:57.980
And so in our subconscious system, No one ever wants
1181
00:52:58.000 --> 00:53:00.400
to get a D anymore. And so this is why
1182
00:53:00.440 --> 00:53:02.280
I think this is a stat that I saw in
1183
00:53:02.300 --> 00:53:05.539
someone else's books. I don't know if it's true, but
1184
00:53:05.539 --> 00:53:09.300
80% of A students work for D students. And I
1185
00:53:09.619 --> 00:53:12.199
think it's probably true because I think about all the
1186
00:53:12.260 --> 00:53:15.670
talented people that are working for someone else. It's just crazy.
1187
00:53:16.230 --> 00:53:19.230
And it's because they don't want to fail. And two
1188
00:53:19.269 --> 00:53:21.750
things about that really upset me. One is I've never
1189
00:53:21.789 --> 00:53:24.010
built anything on my own without help. If you sit
1190
00:53:24.030 --> 00:53:25.610
me down and get me to do an exam, I'm
1191
00:53:25.630 --> 00:53:27.949
definitely getting a D. But if you get all 48
1192
00:53:27.949 --> 00:53:29.869
people in my company together and we'd work something, we'll
1193
00:53:29.889 --> 00:53:32.099
all get, we're definitely getting an A. Because we win
1194
00:53:32.139 --> 00:53:34.739
in teams. That's not taught in school when we think
1195
00:53:34.760 --> 00:53:36.320
we have to do it alone. You can't do it alone.
1196
00:53:36.639 --> 00:53:38.260
You need to work in teams. The second thing is
1197
00:53:38.539 --> 00:53:40.099
a D is not failure. A D is a lesson.
1198
00:53:40.519 --> 00:53:43.949
I got so many Ds that I got comfortable with
1199
00:53:44.010 --> 00:53:46.869
people calling me an idiot. Because I knew I wasn't,
1200
00:53:47.590 --> 00:53:50.590
but fine. It's like, you can't take anything from me
1201
00:53:50.630 --> 00:53:53.000
when I'm already have nothing. You see what I mean? Like,
1202
00:53:53.239 --> 00:53:56.679
I think people that get Ds actually accept failure as like, okay, good. Now,
1203
00:53:56.760 --> 00:53:59.300
I think a lot of people listening are probably A students.
1204
00:54:00.159 --> 00:54:01.480
And they need to have a bit of failure in
1205
00:54:01.500 --> 00:54:02.699
their life to get good at something.
1206
00:54:03.300 --> 00:54:06.429
I had, I literally went back to my old school for,
1207
00:54:06.510 --> 00:54:10.050
I did the like birthday assembly this year. And my one,
1208
00:54:10.349 --> 00:54:12.750
like the one takeaway I wanted for people to have,
1209
00:54:12.909 --> 00:54:15.570
because a lot of it I knew, like I know
1210
00:54:15.590 --> 00:54:17.989
the mentality of people in that school. It's very, it
1211
00:54:18.030 --> 00:54:20.829
was very academic. It was very focused on, as you say,
1212
00:54:20.889 --> 00:54:23.750
like the A above everything. And I only joined that
1213
00:54:23.809 --> 00:54:26.630
school for two years. And I came from a completely
1214
00:54:26.670 --> 00:54:29.329
different type of school where the reason I even changed
1215
00:54:29.369 --> 00:54:31.070
was because they'd never got the grades that I would
1216
00:54:31.110 --> 00:54:33.900
need before. to get to the university I wanted to
1217
00:54:33.920 --> 00:54:36.079
get to and so I kind of had this completely
1218
00:54:36.099 --> 00:54:39.639
different mindset and I was absolutely gobsmacked by how lots
1219
00:54:39.679 --> 00:54:42.829
of people would not do things at all to avoid
1220
00:54:42.869 --> 00:54:46.030
doing them badly where actually failure had been such a
1221
00:54:46.090 --> 00:54:48.710
key part of everything I'd done up to that date
1222
00:54:48.750 --> 00:54:52.170
like genuinely I think about the fact a lot that
1223
00:54:53.030 --> 00:54:55.239
nothing I have that you would look at me and
1224
00:54:55.280 --> 00:54:58.719
think is prestigious has come on the first try I
1225
00:54:59.159 --> 00:55:01.920
didn't get into Oxford on the first try literally like
1226
00:55:02.019 --> 00:55:05.360
every single thing my second business was like completely took
1227
00:55:05.440 --> 00:55:08.639
off and I was flailing for for a good amount
1228
00:55:08.679 --> 00:55:10.900
of time like yes my first business had had success
1229
00:55:10.940 --> 00:55:13.139
at the beginning but being able to like evolve that
1230
00:55:13.179 --> 00:55:15.639
and work out where that was even going took years
1231
00:55:15.679 --> 00:55:19.480
and years and years like every single thing that like
1232
00:55:19.880 --> 00:55:22.980
I retook A-levels I retook GCSEs like every single thing
1233
00:55:23.000 --> 00:55:25.900
that I thought was worth having I failed at the
1234
00:55:25.940 --> 00:55:29.219
first time and I think that that When you give
1235
00:55:29.239 --> 00:55:32.739
yourself permission to do that, you stop looking at anything
1236
00:55:32.860 --> 00:55:35.059
as a kind of, oh, shit, well, I've got to
1237
00:55:35.079 --> 00:55:36.440
do this and I've got to do this well. Actually,
1238
00:55:36.460 --> 00:55:37.530
I don't know if I'm going to do it well,
1239
00:55:37.550 --> 00:55:39.690
so maybe I won't do it at all. And actually,
1240
00:55:39.710 --> 00:55:42.210
it has to be turned on this head. So when
1241
00:55:42.269 --> 00:55:47.610
I was giving that assembly, my main thing was like,
1242
00:55:47.949 --> 00:55:49.780
I think people always say that fear of failure is
1243
00:55:49.820 --> 00:55:53.820
holding you back. I think that... the most important thing
1244
00:55:53.920 --> 00:55:56.099
is that this fear of failure is actually like stopping
1245
00:55:56.639 --> 00:55:58.639
you from a whole life that you don't know you
1246
00:55:58.679 --> 00:56:03.440
could have. Because I think particularly, again, with the increased convenience,
1247
00:56:03.519 --> 00:56:06.989
increased amount we see people succeed, all of these different things,
1248
00:56:07.389 --> 00:56:12.150
we just are programmed now for convenience and success at
1249
00:56:12.170 --> 00:56:16.800
the earliest opportunity. And it's just not conducive to getting
1250
00:56:16.840 --> 00:56:18.519
to where you want to get to.
1251
00:56:18.539 --> 00:56:22.179
I think people with a anybody listening now that has
1252
00:56:22.219 --> 00:56:25.019
an idea just go try it if it fails so
1253
00:56:25.139 --> 00:56:27.949
what okay make sure financially you're not in a serious
1254
00:56:28.010 --> 00:56:31.389
situation but like i just think failure is it is
1255
00:56:31.449 --> 00:56:34.170
so cheesy but it's just a learning experience that really
1256
00:56:34.309 --> 00:56:36.570
it's like when i build a business to me it's
1257
00:56:36.590 --> 00:56:39.849
like a video game and i'm sometimes i'm figuring out
1258
00:56:39.869 --> 00:56:42.039
along the way so i'm launching this drinks brand i
1259
00:56:42.059 --> 00:56:44.679
went to see the perfect ted people yesterday they're inferior
1260
00:56:44.699 --> 00:56:47.000
than my competition they're sharing all their knowledge how they
1261
00:56:47.039 --> 00:56:48.139
did it they don't want me to make the same
1262
00:56:48.159 --> 00:56:51.340
mistakes You know, like, it's so exciting to, like, not
1263
00:56:51.440 --> 00:56:55.239
know something. Like, I love entrepreneurship because I never know
1264
00:56:55.280 --> 00:56:58.159
it all. There's always one more thing to learn. Like,
1265
00:56:58.239 --> 00:57:01.889
AI right now. Every entrepreneur is pretty excited about AI.
1266
00:57:02.230 --> 00:57:04.210
Everybody working for someone else is pretty scared of AI.
1267
00:57:04.409 --> 00:57:07.150
So what side do you want to sit on? Right?
1268
00:57:07.409 --> 00:57:10.130
If you own the business, AI is a liberator. You
1269
00:57:10.150 --> 00:57:12.010
can grow your company faster. You can do more. If
1270
00:57:12.030 --> 00:57:14.150
you're working for someone, you're like, wow, that could replace me.
1271
00:57:14.809 --> 00:57:17.860
So I think that's why now, like, particularly now, people
1272
00:57:17.880 --> 00:57:20.909
should follow their dreams. more than ever because the job
1273
00:57:20.949 --> 00:57:23.809
isn't safe like we were promised and you don't learn
1274
00:57:23.849 --> 00:57:26.690
as much because often in companies they pigeonhole you into
1275
00:57:26.710 --> 00:57:30.130
a particular thing you become a specialist at something you
1276
00:57:30.170 --> 00:57:31.849
don't learn broadly.
1277
00:57:31.809 --> 00:57:35.340
Even if your job is completely safe that social construct
1278
00:57:35.389 --> 00:57:38.179
that if you worked hard and earned an average salary
1279
00:57:38.219 --> 00:57:41.420
you'd be able to buy an average house or a
1280
00:57:41.480 --> 00:57:44.039
house at all and have two and a half kids and.
1281
00:57:43.960 --> 00:57:46.030
Be able to gone yeah it's not true it.
1282
00:57:46.139 --> 00:57:48.380
Also doesn't exist so it's like yeah you're so right
1283
00:57:48.420 --> 00:57:52.019
it's like the reframing of you've been promised this one
1284
00:57:52.099 --> 00:57:54.880
thing in this job so if you're doing anything else
1285
00:57:54.900 --> 00:57:56.940
you're taking a risk actually now both of those are
1286
00:57:56.960 --> 00:57:59.300
risks so it's like which one are you going to
1287
00:57:59.340 --> 00:58:01.539
do why is it the best thing for you what's
1288
00:58:01.579 --> 00:58:03.340
best suited to you what's going to get you there
1289
00:58:03.380 --> 00:58:06.039
faster all of that and i i think in this
1290
00:58:06.099 --> 00:58:08.989
whole conversation around failure which i think is incredibly important
1291
00:58:09.119 --> 00:58:13.050
it's easier to sit in hindsight and say fear of
1292
00:58:13.090 --> 00:58:15.260
failure is holding you back Failure is one of the
1293
00:58:15.300 --> 00:58:17.019
best things that can happen to you, all of this.
1294
00:58:17.639 --> 00:58:20.320
What about in that moment? So, like, what about someone
1295
00:58:20.340 --> 00:58:24.239
listening to this who has just lost their job or
1296
00:58:24.300 --> 00:58:26.360
they didn't get their dream job that they've been working
1297
00:58:26.429 --> 00:58:29.469
for and believe they are highly qualified for or they
1298
00:58:29.489 --> 00:58:31.670
didn't get into the university they want to or they
1299
00:58:31.710 --> 00:58:35.389
just failed some school exams, like, whatever. That is a
1300
00:58:35.489 --> 00:58:38.809
deep feeling. Like, being in that place and feeling that
1301
00:58:38.869 --> 00:58:42.460
sense of failure, it's a lot... harder than what we
1302
00:58:42.519 --> 00:58:45.880
are feeling x amount of years on or whatever from
1303
00:58:46.179 --> 00:58:51.360
whichever failure so how do you actually in that moment
1304
00:58:52.139 --> 00:58:56.719
feel that failure and utilize it in the right direction
1305
00:58:56.840 --> 00:58:58.139
rather than holding you back.
1306
00:58:58.239 --> 00:59:01.630
It is tough i actually feel emotional when you talk
1307
00:59:01.650 --> 00:59:03.969
about this because i meet these people who you're just
1308
00:59:03.989 --> 00:59:05.929
you just described i meet them in the real world
1309
00:59:05.989 --> 00:59:08.710
right now in the streets and there's a lot of
1310
00:59:08.789 --> 00:59:12.239
desperate people out there that feel totally underconfident. They went
1311
00:59:12.260 --> 00:59:13.980
to university. They did everything they were told to do.
1312
00:59:14.480 --> 00:59:15.940
And no one will give them a job. And they're
1313
00:59:15.960 --> 00:59:21.349
talented people. It is so, so sad. I don't know why,
1314
00:59:21.409 --> 00:59:22.989
but it made me think of a bit of a
1315
00:59:23.050 --> 00:59:24.880
name drop story. I'll drop a name here.
1316
00:59:24.900 --> 00:59:25.119
Go on.
1317
00:59:25.440 --> 00:59:27.920
I'll pick it up. I moved back from Hong Kong.
1318
00:59:28.099 --> 00:59:31.139
When I sold my company Fluid to PricewaterhouseCooper, I moved
1319
00:59:31.159 --> 00:59:32.420
back to England. I was living in Hong Kong at
1320
00:59:32.440 --> 00:59:36.469
the time. And I moved to North London. So I
1321
00:59:36.550 --> 00:59:39.550
bought this house in North London, moved in. And it
1322
00:59:40.889 --> 00:59:42.429
was the first time I owned a home. So it
1323
00:59:42.449 --> 00:59:44.190
was totally my home. I was kind of excited to
1324
00:59:44.230 --> 00:59:46.369
move in. I didn't do much due diligence on the home.
1325
00:59:46.409 --> 00:59:49.289
I didn't know who my neighbors were. I didn't know anything. Anyway,
1326
00:59:49.630 --> 00:59:51.530
my team are laughing because I mention this all the time.
1327
00:59:51.610 --> 00:59:55.070
There's only one celebrity in the whole world that I like, really.
1328
00:59:55.190 --> 00:59:57.309
I say like, there's one I like, as in I'm
1329
00:59:57.329 --> 01:00:00.210
a big fan. There's only one celebrity in the whole
1330
01:00:00.250 --> 01:00:04.809
of the world. And it turned out my neighbor was
1331
01:00:04.849 --> 01:00:09.369
this celebrity, Ricky Gervais. So he was my neighbor. And
1332
01:00:09.510 --> 01:00:11.230
I try not to be a fanboy, but I was
1333
01:00:11.250 --> 01:00:13.110
definitely a fanboy. I saw him every day pretty much
1334
01:00:13.130 --> 01:00:15.349
for the next four years and tried to not ask
1335
01:00:15.369 --> 01:00:17.030
for a photo because we were neighbors. So I was
1336
01:00:17.050 --> 01:00:20.150
trying to play it cool. But the other side of
1337
01:00:20.210 --> 01:00:25.980
me was a guy and his family who had become
1338
01:00:26.019 --> 01:00:30.019
a lawyer. Now, funnily enough, this guy that became a lawyer,
1339
01:00:30.579 --> 01:00:34.550
I actually known him decades before. And when he became
1340
01:00:34.590 --> 01:00:36.409
a lawyer, it was kind of a big thing in
1341
01:00:36.710 --> 01:00:38.690
our social thing that he'd become a lawyer. It was
1342
01:00:38.710 --> 01:00:40.789
a very fancy thing to become a lawyer. I was
1343
01:00:40.849 --> 01:00:44.840
a broke entrepreneur trying to make it. I couldn't get
1344
01:00:44.880 --> 01:00:48.239
a job was the perception of entrepreneurship back then. Entrepreneurship
1345
01:00:48.260 --> 01:00:50.840
was those that couldn't get a job, right? So I
1346
01:00:50.880 --> 01:00:53.280
was an entrepreneur. And Ricky Gervais at that time, who
1347
01:00:53.300 --> 01:00:55.590
I didn't know, was a struggling, trying to be a
1348
01:00:55.670 --> 01:00:58.369
singer guy, right? He was doing radio on the side,
1349
01:00:58.389 --> 01:01:00.570
but he wanted to be a singer. People were laughing
1350
01:01:00.610 --> 01:01:03.510
at him. People were laughing at me. In the time
1351
01:01:03.530 --> 01:01:06.710
that I lived there, every single morning, the person who
1352
01:01:06.750 --> 01:01:08.780
was now, we're now in our 40s, he's getting up
1353
01:01:08.820 --> 01:01:11.059
at six o'clock in the morning. He's going home at midnight.
1354
01:01:11.099 --> 01:01:13.780
He doesn't see his family all day. And he's moaning
1355
01:01:13.820 --> 01:01:15.099
to me he doesn't get to see his family on
1356
01:01:15.119 --> 01:01:17.019
the Sunday afternoon when he's having a nap because he's
1357
01:01:17.059 --> 01:01:20.000
so tired. Whereas me and Ricky Gervais are walking around
1358
01:01:20.039 --> 01:01:23.050
Hampstead Heath. We're having the laugh time of our life.
1359
01:01:23.090 --> 01:01:25.010
The point I'm getting to is like a lot of
1360
01:01:25.030 --> 01:01:27.369
people listening, what they should do if they're in a
1361
01:01:27.389 --> 01:01:29.750
job they don't love or worse, they haven't got this
1362
01:01:29.829 --> 01:01:31.789
job that they thought they wanted. You know what? Go
1363
01:01:31.829 --> 01:01:34.230
interview the people with that job. I meet so many
1364
01:01:34.289 --> 01:01:36.159
people that are studying something and they've never met the
1365
01:01:36.199 --> 01:01:39.000
person who's doing the job that they're talking about. You
1366
01:01:39.019 --> 01:01:40.980
know what you might find? It's lucky you can't get
1367
01:01:41.019 --> 01:01:43.590
that job. It's not me telling you this. I don't
1368
01:01:43.610 --> 01:01:45.309
want to say, oh, go start a business of your own.
1369
01:01:45.630 --> 01:01:48.070
Go interview the very people you think you want to be.
1370
01:01:48.360 --> 01:01:50.579
Because I tell people all the time, only take advice
1371
01:01:50.599 --> 01:01:52.619
from me if you want my life. If you copy
1372
01:01:52.679 --> 01:01:54.380
my advice, you're going to get my life. You're going
1373
01:01:54.400 --> 01:01:57.559
to get, I've been married 25 years. I don't know
1374
01:01:57.579 --> 01:01:59.900
how to chat up women. You won't. Good luck.
1375
01:02:00.659 --> 01:02:01.059
Exactly.
1376
01:02:01.159 --> 01:02:03.719
But my point is like, I'm not, I'm not, you know,
1377
01:02:03.880 --> 01:02:06.380
I have, I have, I work all the time. I
1378
01:02:06.420 --> 01:02:09.440
just love work. I'm not allowed to say it probably legally,
1379
01:02:09.480 --> 01:02:11.340
but the people in my team who I work for
1380
01:02:11.380 --> 01:02:14.670
are my friends. I work with people I actually like.
1381
01:02:15.409 --> 01:02:18.809
I don't have any work-life separation. My son is in
1382
01:02:18.849 --> 01:02:21.219
my content. He's eight years old. He gave me feedback
1383
01:02:21.260 --> 01:02:25.260
on the video we put on YouTube today. Everything is integrated. Now,
1384
01:02:25.420 --> 01:02:27.159
if you want that life, listen to me. If you
1385
01:02:27.280 --> 01:02:30.820
really want work-life separation, work-life balance, don't listen to me.
1386
01:02:31.400 --> 01:02:33.599
I'm eight kilos overweight. Don't listen to me about fitness.
1387
01:02:34.500 --> 01:02:36.610
You know what I mean? But if you want to
1388
01:02:36.829 --> 01:02:39.989
have a life that's fulfilling and you're willing to work,
1389
01:02:40.550 --> 01:02:42.340
then listen to me. What I'm getting to is like
1390
01:02:42.360 --> 01:02:44.400
a lot of people right now who think they haven't
1391
01:02:44.420 --> 01:02:46.380
got the job they wanted, I bet they didn't even
1392
01:02:46.440 --> 01:02:47.860
know what that life actually is.
1393
01:02:48.280 --> 01:02:50.800
Yeah, I think that's really, really good practical advice on
1394
01:02:50.900 --> 01:02:53.489
so many different levels. I think that on the side
1395
01:02:53.510 --> 01:02:56.369
you're saying, absolutely, you may well not even want that job.
1396
01:02:56.429 --> 01:02:58.170
And it may well just be a label that you
1397
01:02:58.570 --> 01:03:01.090
see as the version of external validation that you need
1398
01:03:01.110 --> 01:03:04.400
to complete your self-worth or whatever it might be. You
1399
01:03:04.440 --> 01:03:06.940
might also... meet that person and realize you need to
1400
01:03:06.980 --> 01:03:09.480
double down because that's exactly what you want. But I
1401
01:03:09.519 --> 01:03:12.400
think that it's so right, particularly with social media now,
1402
01:03:12.500 --> 01:03:16.559
that actually it's very easy to see all these different
1403
01:03:16.579 --> 01:03:19.300
versions of a life that you don't have and to
1404
01:03:19.519 --> 01:03:22.880
automatically assume that you want the life of the CEO,
1405
01:03:23.039 --> 01:03:27.710
for example, whilst actually only wanting 40% of the things
1406
01:03:27.750 --> 01:03:29.869
in their life. And that 40% is the glitzy side
1407
01:03:29.909 --> 01:03:32.119
you see on social media. And I think that it's
1408
01:03:32.199 --> 01:03:34.199
very hard to show that 100% because even I can
1409
01:03:34.239 --> 01:03:36.170
say that. And still, if I'm having a shit day,
1410
01:03:36.510 --> 01:03:38.010
I'm not going to be doing my job and posting
1411
01:03:38.030 --> 01:03:41.469
on my stories. Like I'm just not because I need
1412
01:03:41.510 --> 01:03:43.869
to do my job and I'm having a shit day.
1413
01:03:43.909 --> 01:03:45.690
So that's the last thing I want to do. And
1414
01:03:45.710 --> 01:03:48.940
I think that even just like practically from the point
1415
01:03:48.980 --> 01:03:51.639
of view, I think so many people have these ideas
1416
01:03:51.679 --> 01:03:54.019
in their heads of like, I want to do this
1417
01:03:54.099 --> 01:03:55.760
or I want to be this or whatever it might be.
1418
01:03:56.159 --> 01:03:59.159
The actual execution of that It's going to take you
1419
01:03:59.300 --> 01:04:01.219
so long to work out whether you actually want that
1420
01:04:01.300 --> 01:04:05.199
and being able to put yourself close to someone who
1421
01:04:05.449 --> 01:04:07.510
is doing that and learn as much as possible about
1422
01:04:07.530 --> 01:04:09.449
the pros and cons and whether that suits you. I
1423
01:04:09.469 --> 01:04:12.630
think that I completely agree that both that's very important
1424
01:04:12.690 --> 01:04:15.070
and also that that's something that the education system does
1425
01:04:15.130 --> 01:04:16.389
not set us up well for.
1426
01:04:18.849 --> 01:04:21.550
This is David and John from the David McWilliams podcast
1427
01:04:21.909 --> 01:04:24.469
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1428
01:04:24.710 --> 01:04:27.230
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1431
01:04:33.469 --> 01:04:35.869
and a team here in Dublin. And there are no
1432
01:04:35.909 --> 01:04:38.489
monthly fees. Get a free Monzo account for yourself and
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01:04:38.510 --> 01:04:41.090
your kids. And if you run a business, open a
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01:04:41.150 --> 01:04:44.159
free business bank account too if you're an eligible sole
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01:04:44.199 --> 01:04:47.019
trader or limited company in Ireland. You can manage all
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01:04:47.059 --> 01:04:50.329
your Monzo accounts on one app. Monzo have also been
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01:04:50.369 --> 01:04:53.409
kind enough and clever enough to sponsor Kilkenomics in November,
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01:04:53.610 --> 01:04:54.989
for which we are very grateful.
1439
01:04:55.329 --> 01:04:58.110
A new era of banking is here. Sign up today
1440
01:04:58.210 --> 01:04:59.730
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1441
01:05:00.090 --> 01:05:02.969
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1442
01:05:02.989 --> 01:05:03.809
the Central Bank of Ireland.
1443
01:05:04.050 --> 01:05:05.309
Terms and conditions apply.
1444
01:05:08.880 --> 01:05:12.239
How would you say you know the difference and how
1445
01:05:12.280 --> 01:05:15.519
do you find out the difference between failure that means
1446
01:05:15.579 --> 01:05:20.380
that you should maybe try again and keep going and
1447
01:05:20.460 --> 01:05:24.039
keep knocking down that door or failure where you should
1448
01:05:24.980 --> 01:05:27.179
probably take the hint that that's actually not the right
1449
01:05:27.199 --> 01:05:29.070
thing for you and go and do something differently?
1450
01:05:29.889 --> 01:05:34.610
It's a great question. I think often, like I failed
1451
01:05:34.670 --> 01:05:37.230
so many times and every time I've had a failure,
1452
01:05:37.250 --> 01:05:40.289
I realized it had to happen. So for example, I
1453
01:05:40.329 --> 01:05:42.630
invested in a company called Devoshard, it was a comic
1454
01:05:42.650 --> 01:05:44.579
book business. I lost a million US dollars and I
1455
01:05:44.639 --> 01:05:47.159
couldn't afford it by the way. This was all the
1456
01:05:47.199 --> 01:05:49.570
money I had I put into a comic book business.
1457
01:05:49.630 --> 01:05:51.190
It was a great idea. I still love it, which
1458
01:05:51.210 --> 01:05:53.949
was like, what if Superman landed in China? It's funny
1459
01:05:53.989 --> 01:05:55.829
how everyone instantly thinks he's evil. I don't know why.
1460
01:05:56.329 --> 01:05:59.449
Or if Spider-Man was born in India, what would that
1461
01:05:59.469 --> 01:06:01.849
look like? And the whole comic book series was around
1462
01:06:01.929 --> 01:06:04.750
cultural awareness. It was really cool. And I fell in
1463
01:06:04.789 --> 01:06:06.869
love with the whole idea and I put all the
1464
01:06:06.889 --> 01:06:08.710
money I had into it and we built it up
1465
01:06:09.170 --> 01:06:12.500
and then it failed. And then one of the things
1466
01:06:12.539 --> 01:06:14.599
that happened was, I don't even like saying his name,
1467
01:06:14.619 --> 01:06:17.429
but someone very well known tried to get involved in
1468
01:06:17.449 --> 01:06:20.650
the business and it didn't work out and it turns
1469
01:06:20.690 --> 01:06:21.949
out that person that tried to get involved in the
1470
01:06:21.969 --> 01:06:24.349
business was a very bad person it became out a
1471
01:06:24.369 --> 01:06:25.889
bit later in the news that they were a very
1472
01:06:25.929 --> 01:06:29.030
bad person and I just thought to myself thank god
1473
01:06:29.110 --> 01:06:32.280
my comic book failed because otherwise I might have accidentally
1474
01:06:32.300 --> 01:06:34.739
been in business with this person so everything kind of
1475
01:06:34.760 --> 01:06:37.059
happens for a reason you're meant to experiment in life
1476
01:06:37.119 --> 01:06:39.139
life is we said it already but a journey I
1477
01:06:39.159 --> 01:06:41.719
don't think people realize it's really just one big experiment
1478
01:06:42.239 --> 01:06:44.840
you know you can't take money with you So all
1479
01:06:44.860 --> 01:06:46.699
the money, I've already told my son, I'm spending all
1480
01:06:46.739 --> 01:06:48.539
the money I've made before I die.
1481
01:06:48.860 --> 01:06:49.679
You better make your own.
1482
01:06:49.719 --> 01:06:51.869
Yeah, kind of. But I'm not doing my job as
1483
01:06:51.909 --> 01:06:53.949
a parent. If I don't give him the ability to, like,
1484
01:06:53.969 --> 01:06:55.449
I'm going to give him a fishing rod, not a fish.
1485
01:06:55.949 --> 01:06:57.309
If I tell him he's going to get all this money,
1486
01:06:57.590 --> 01:06:59.170
bad to what we were saying earlier, that won't give
1487
01:06:59.210 --> 01:07:01.840
him the hardship he needs. Right? Don't get me wrong.
1488
01:07:01.960 --> 01:07:04.219
I buy him Lego every single day right now. He's eight.
1489
01:07:04.880 --> 01:07:07.179
So I'm doing right now, I'm spoiling him. I think
1490
01:07:07.199 --> 01:07:07.820
there's up to 10.
1491
01:07:07.800 --> 01:07:08.780
That's where all the money's going.
1492
01:07:09.179 --> 01:07:11.179
Up to 10, pretty much. I'm spending it on Lego.
1493
01:07:11.820 --> 01:07:13.739
But my point is that I think for a lot
1494
01:07:13.780 --> 01:07:17.460
of people, you should realize that it's the learning that's
1495
01:07:17.480 --> 01:07:19.539
the fun bit, even when it's a failure. So I
1496
01:07:19.579 --> 01:07:21.760
went to Sandy Yoga Comic Con. I met Stan Lee,
1497
01:07:21.780 --> 01:07:25.250
the creator of the Hulk and Spider-Man. I sat with
1498
01:07:25.329 --> 01:07:27.170
NBC Universal and they said they were going to turn
1499
01:07:27.190 --> 01:07:29.650
it into a movie. I've had all these incredible fun
1500
01:07:29.730 --> 01:07:33.110
moments in the failure. You know, like the failure itself
1501
01:07:33.230 --> 01:07:35.679
is the end result. Just like success, hopefully, is the
1502
01:07:35.719 --> 01:07:39.300
end result. But all the experiences in between are just
1503
01:07:39.380 --> 01:07:41.730
the best thing ever. Like, I did all these things.
1504
01:07:41.769 --> 01:07:44.429
I would never have gone to San Diego Comic-Con and
1505
01:07:44.489 --> 01:07:46.869
dressed up as a turtle if I hadn't had a
1506
01:07:46.889 --> 01:07:49.349
comic book business. You know what I mean? Like, it's
1507
01:07:49.429 --> 01:07:52.739
the adventure of life that makes me want to keep
1508
01:07:52.780 --> 01:07:53.719
trying these things too.
1509
01:07:53.920 --> 01:07:55.960
And what would you say that kind of, on the
1510
01:07:56.019 --> 01:07:58.559
other hand, for someone who maybe doesn't yet know whether
1511
01:07:58.599 --> 01:08:02.880
something's a success or a failure, what does self-belief... look
1512
01:08:02.960 --> 01:08:08.159
like practically when you are trying something but it's not
1513
01:08:08.949 --> 01:08:10.989
working out yet? Like it's not taking off, it's not
1514
01:08:11.030 --> 01:08:11.849
providing for you?
1515
01:08:12.070 --> 01:08:14.409
People just need to run the numbers. If you're scared
1516
01:08:14.449 --> 01:08:17.770
of something, look at the maximum downside and can you
1517
01:08:17.789 --> 01:08:20.750
take it? Because the maximum upside, humans, we find it
1518
01:08:20.810 --> 01:08:24.369
very difficult to imagine the upside because we're scared to
1519
01:08:24.409 --> 01:08:27.060
be too optimistic, which is a strange trait. Humans are
1520
01:08:27.069 --> 01:08:29.439
the only animals that can think about the future. Most
1521
01:08:29.479 --> 01:08:32.159
other animals can't prepare or plan the future. but sometimes
1522
01:08:32.199 --> 01:08:34.539
we use it against ourselves. So we don't plan the
1523
01:08:34.579 --> 01:08:38.119
upside enough and we plan the downside. I think as
1524
01:08:38.140 --> 01:08:40.319
long as you can handle the worst case scenario, let's
1525
01:08:40.340 --> 01:08:42.079
say all your savings are gone and you have to
1526
01:08:42.100 --> 01:08:45.689
go back and get a job. Okay, that's the downside, right?
1527
01:08:45.699 --> 01:08:47.170
You go back to where you are now, but you
1528
01:08:47.189 --> 01:08:48.989
don't have any savings, but at least you have a story.
1529
01:08:49.630 --> 01:08:52.029
I think run the numbers and then get comfortable with
1530
01:08:52.050 --> 01:08:54.989
the downside. Good thing about a limited company, most business structures,
1531
01:08:55.310 --> 01:08:58.109
there is a limited downside, right? Unless you do something illegal,
1532
01:08:58.250 --> 01:09:01.119
which case there isn't, but you know- personal guarantees personal
1533
01:09:01.140 --> 01:09:03.579
guarantees well be careful of those but i think generally
1534
01:09:03.619 --> 01:09:06.720
like in business my corporate business didn't go bankrupt i
1535
01:09:06.800 --> 01:09:09.819
wound it down because it wasn't financially viable i i
1536
01:09:09.840 --> 01:09:12.380
always think it's quite healthy like i one of the
1537
01:09:12.399 --> 01:09:14.310
things i'm most proud of is in 35 years i've
1538
01:09:14.350 --> 01:09:17.279
met payroll every month i've never not paid someone And
1539
01:09:17.319 --> 01:09:19.380
in part, it's because my idea of a failure is
1540
01:09:19.399 --> 01:09:21.390
when I've only got one month's money left and there's
1541
01:09:21.399 --> 01:09:23.819
not any money coming in. And I'm not going to
1542
01:09:23.859 --> 01:09:26.069
raise money for this business anymore because I don't believe
1543
01:09:26.109 --> 01:09:28.609
in it. And I wind it down. I've never gone bankrupt,
1544
01:09:28.689 --> 01:09:31.029
but I've had many businesses fail. And I think that's
1545
01:09:31.050 --> 01:09:32.529
the way to plan it out a little bit. Maybe
1546
01:09:32.550 --> 01:09:35.689
with your personal finances. I met someone outside the front
1547
01:09:35.729 --> 01:09:38.069
here who wanted to launch a hat business. I told him,
1548
01:09:38.090 --> 01:09:39.270
give me the sample because I'll give it to you.
1549
01:09:39.289 --> 01:09:41.289
But they didn't have one. And so I said, they
1550
01:09:41.329 --> 01:09:43.149
missed an opportunity. You should always have your hat in
1551
01:09:43.170 --> 01:09:45.439
your hand if that's what you want to do. I'm like,
1552
01:09:45.479 --> 01:09:46.800
I don't have any money to make the hats. I'm like,
1553
01:09:46.819 --> 01:09:48.079
how much money have you actually got? It's like, I've
1554
01:09:48.100 --> 01:09:49.979
got 300 quid. I'm like, how many hats can that
1555
01:09:50.020 --> 01:09:53.000
buy you? He's like, probably 40. I'm like, make 40,
1556
01:09:53.000 --> 01:09:56.609
sell 40. Worst is you lose 300 quid, right? And
1557
01:09:56.829 --> 01:09:58.350
you've got the whole cycle in your hand then. You
1558
01:09:58.369 --> 01:10:01.329
know what marketing worked, what marketing didn't. You know what
1559
01:10:01.350 --> 01:10:03.829
people said about the hat afterwards. You know what I mean? Like,
1560
01:10:04.069 --> 01:10:05.569
don't have to make a million and sell a million.
1561
01:10:05.970 --> 01:10:07.979
You just need to make what you can afford. Downside
1562
01:10:08.020 --> 01:10:09.800
is you've lost 300 quid, but you could probably have
1563
01:10:09.840 --> 01:10:14.189
wasted that. at the weekend going out. So that's your downside, right?
1564
01:10:14.329 --> 01:10:16.010
And a bit of effort to make the content to
1565
01:10:16.069 --> 01:10:16.970
try and promote the hats.
1566
01:10:17.250 --> 01:10:19.569
I think the main thing there is that data generally
1567
01:10:19.609 --> 01:10:21.930
makes you feel more comfortable because at least you have visibility.
1568
01:10:22.090 --> 01:10:25.430
So for example, as you just said, you're running the numbers,
1569
01:10:25.470 --> 01:10:28.319
you're realising, oh, actually, the downside's a bit more than
1570
01:10:28.340 --> 01:10:32.039
I can take. You make that decision at a point
1571
01:10:32.119 --> 01:10:35.640
where you still have the upper hand, there's still a future,
1572
01:10:35.699 --> 01:10:37.840
you maybe haven't gone through all your savings, or as
1573
01:10:37.880 --> 01:10:39.680
you said, like you can wind it down, whatever it
1574
01:10:39.720 --> 01:10:43.529
might be. I think that what can be really harmful
1575
01:10:43.789 --> 01:10:47.010
is this kind of, instead of that chasing your dream
1576
01:10:47.029 --> 01:10:50.340
with a head in the sand kind of approach, where
1577
01:10:50.739 --> 01:10:55.180
you're not actually supporting yourself chasing your dream because you
1578
01:10:55.439 --> 01:10:57.680
are putting yourself constantly in a position where you don't
1579
01:10:57.699 --> 01:10:59.479
even know what's going on. You don't even know how
1580
01:10:59.659 --> 01:11:01.319
long the business can run for. You don't know the
1581
01:11:01.640 --> 01:11:03.460
economics of the business, all of this. And all of
1582
01:11:03.479 --> 01:11:06.060
this sounds very complex, but it's really not. It's just
1583
01:11:06.100 --> 01:11:09.920
about working out how much money... you have in your
1584
01:11:09.960 --> 01:11:11.939
savings to be able to keep you going for six
1585
01:11:11.979 --> 01:11:14.100
months maybe if this didn't go out or didn't go
1586
01:11:14.340 --> 01:11:17.000
right or whatever and being able to have that visibility
1587
01:11:17.060 --> 01:11:18.539
and then take the risk if you want to take
1588
01:11:18.560 --> 01:11:20.479
the risk like I've had times in my business journey
1589
01:11:20.520 --> 01:11:24.100
where I one time I clearly remember where I was
1590
01:11:24.140 --> 01:11:25.739
trying to work out the downside because I was trying
1591
01:11:25.760 --> 01:11:27.779
to work out if I should wind this business down
1592
01:11:28.500 --> 01:11:32.720
and I was thinking god you know there are suppliers
1593
01:11:32.739 --> 01:11:34.279
we've got things from there all of this and I
1594
01:11:34.300 --> 01:11:35.800
was working out the downside and I was going okay
1595
01:11:35.819 --> 01:11:38.800
well right now If everything stops and we stop it
1596
01:11:39.060 --> 01:11:42.319
right now, I'm going to be two million in debt
1597
01:11:42.560 --> 01:11:47.020
within the next few months. So whereas if I get
1598
01:11:47.060 --> 01:11:49.850
to continue this for if I if I manage to,
1599
01:11:49.890 --> 01:11:51.510
you know, we hit this number on this day and
1600
01:11:51.529 --> 01:11:53.010
then this number on this day and this number on
1601
01:11:53.050 --> 01:11:58.949
this day. If I put like a few thousand more in,
1602
01:11:59.369 --> 01:12:01.430
then we could get to a point where we never
1603
01:12:01.470 --> 01:12:03.449
hit that debt point because we never hit that cash
1604
01:12:03.470 --> 01:12:05.659
flow issue. And at that point, I was like, yeah,
1605
01:12:05.779 --> 01:12:07.380
I believe in this enough. I'm going to do it.
1606
01:12:07.460 --> 01:12:10.439
I'm going to take the risk, like potentially fuck everything up,
1607
01:12:10.500 --> 01:12:11.659
but I'm going to take the risk. I'm not going
1608
01:12:11.689 --> 01:12:12.470
to wind it down at that point.
1609
01:12:12.479 --> 01:12:14.970
You said something key there. You believed in it. That
1610
01:12:15.010 --> 01:12:17.250
is actually important because I would take the hit on
1611
01:12:17.270 --> 01:12:18.949
the two million if I didn't believe in it. That's
1612
01:12:18.970 --> 01:12:20.810
what happened with the comic book business. I actually didn't
1613
01:12:20.829 --> 01:12:22.489
believe in it in the end. It wasn't actually my dream.
1614
01:12:22.850 --> 01:12:25.340
It was someone else's idea, someone else's dream. I just
1615
01:12:25.380 --> 01:12:29.460
took it on board. I think that's key, partly. Like downside,
1616
01:12:29.640 --> 01:12:32.119
you can get out of debt. I don't want anyone
1617
01:12:32.140 --> 01:12:33.380
to get into debt. I hate debt, by the way.
1618
01:12:33.439 --> 01:12:35.840
I've avoided debt my whole life. I don't have any debt.
1619
01:12:36.159 --> 01:12:38.500
My house is owned outright. My cars are owned outright.
1620
01:12:38.520 --> 01:12:40.439
I don't have any debt. I hate it. People are
1621
01:12:40.470 --> 01:12:42.409
always telling me to leverage. Every financial advisor I meet
1622
01:12:42.430 --> 01:12:45.010
tells me to leverage. I hate debt. But the key
1623
01:12:45.050 --> 01:12:47.840
there is you can keep going because you believe in it.
1624
01:12:48.430 --> 01:12:49.989
And you do need energy for these things. If it's
1625
01:12:50.010 --> 01:12:51.630
taking your energy, you're going to get into more debt,
1626
01:12:51.670 --> 01:12:55.279
to be honest. You can't. You'll just collapse. But if
1627
01:12:55.319 --> 01:12:57.699
you believe in it, energy comes your way and you
1628
01:12:57.739 --> 01:12:59.800
can push through. I think that is actually the key element.
1629
01:13:01.100 --> 01:13:04.270
And I wish we could speak forever an hour because
1630
01:13:04.279 --> 01:13:06.350
we have a lot to speak about but very sadly
1631
01:13:06.510 --> 01:13:09.510
we have to wrap up for recording time so um
1632
01:13:10.189 --> 01:13:12.489
can I ask you what the best piece of advice
1633
01:13:12.529 --> 01:13:14.270
is that you've ever been given I asked.
1634
01:13:14.130 --> 01:13:15.649
My wife this question this morning because this is the
1635
01:13:15.670 --> 01:13:17.810
question you sent me in advance because I always had
1636
01:13:17.850 --> 01:13:20.529
the same answer I wanted to give something original so
1637
01:13:20.569 --> 01:13:23.140
I asked my wife what was the best advice she
1638
01:13:23.340 --> 01:13:26.560
ever had and then she didn't give me an answer
1639
01:13:26.579 --> 01:13:31.010
um My normal thing is my wife actually has given
1640
01:13:31.029 --> 01:13:33.750
me the best advice ever. She kind of, she reads
1641
01:13:33.789 --> 01:13:35.949
a lot. I don't read at all. And she was
1642
01:13:36.069 --> 01:13:38.750
talking about like, oh, you know, she read this quote,
1643
01:13:38.770 --> 01:13:40.970
the purpose of life is a life of purpose. And
1644
01:13:40.989 --> 01:13:43.539
I think it's so true. But when I asked her
1645
01:13:43.619 --> 01:13:47.460
what she felt was the most important thing advice-wise that
1646
01:13:47.500 --> 01:13:51.279
she'd ever heard, she said nothing. And I realized my
1647
01:13:51.359 --> 01:13:54.920
wife is the best listener. You know, the whole thing,
1648
01:13:54.979 --> 01:13:57.369
we've got one mouth and two ears, you know, like,
1649
01:13:57.800 --> 01:14:00.079
I do actually, and I've been working on this consciously
1650
01:14:00.119 --> 01:14:03.060
myself the last few years, is listening. Like listening to people,
1651
01:14:03.100 --> 01:14:05.000
stopping in the street and hearing someone's dream, letting them
1652
01:14:05.039 --> 01:14:08.659
completely finish it. Understanding what people out there are talking
1653
01:14:08.720 --> 01:14:13.260
about politics-wise and what's really going on. Like listening is such...
1654
01:14:13.460 --> 01:14:16.239
So my wife's advice, if she'd said anything, ironically, would
1655
01:14:16.300 --> 01:14:19.970
be listen more. She listens to everybody and everything. And
1656
01:14:19.979 --> 01:14:21.569
I was once in a meeting with her, just to conclude.
1657
01:14:21.949 --> 01:14:23.850
I was once in a meeting with her, a very,
1658
01:14:23.890 --> 01:14:26.630
very senior group of people in business. And we were
1659
01:14:26.649 --> 01:14:28.710
trying to do a big deal And I was pitching
1660
01:14:28.750 --> 01:14:31.590
how brilliant my company was and how brilliant I was.
1661
01:14:32.289 --> 01:14:34.829
And my wife, who was my business partner at the time, uh,
1662
01:14:34.890 --> 01:14:37.649
was sitting there. It was a two hour meeting where
1663
01:14:37.720 --> 01:14:39.859
I don't think I stopped talking for two hours the
1664
01:14:39.920 --> 01:14:43.310
whole time. And at the end of the meeting, I said, uh,
1665
01:14:43.439 --> 01:14:45.420
it was, um, CNN we were meeting and I was
1666
01:14:45.439 --> 01:14:47.539
trying to win their work to do international marketing for them.
1667
01:14:48.180 --> 01:14:50.369
And at the end of the meeting, the head of, uh,
1668
01:14:50.409 --> 01:14:54.130
the CNN, uh, marketing globally said, Simon, uh, great presentation.
1669
01:14:54.189 --> 01:14:57.939
Thanks very much. Um, We know that Helen is the
1670
01:14:57.979 --> 01:15:00.100
brain of this operation because she's just sat there and
1671
01:15:00.140 --> 01:15:02.739
listened the whole time. Helen, what do you think? And
1672
01:15:02.760 --> 01:15:04.979
then Helen, who had listened to me and listened to them,
1673
01:15:05.039 --> 01:15:08.050
watched their body language, everything, just said, I think the
1674
01:15:08.090 --> 01:15:09.979
best thing for you to do is X, Y, and Z,
1675
01:15:09.989 --> 01:15:12.489
which was a campaign idea. And I went, absolutely, let's
1676
01:15:12.529 --> 01:15:15.449
do that, Helen, you're right. So basically she listened for
1677
01:15:15.529 --> 01:15:18.869
two hours, said one sentence and won the project. And
1678
01:15:18.930 --> 01:15:21.529
so listening is so powerful. When Helen didn't even reply
1679
01:15:21.550 --> 01:15:22.930
to me this morning, I know that's what she would
1680
01:15:22.970 --> 01:15:25.130
have said. I think that's one of the, you know,
1681
01:15:25.189 --> 01:15:27.229
purpose of life is a life of purpose. But sometimes just,
1682
01:15:27.270 --> 01:15:30.520
you know, listen to yourself. Listen to your heart more
1683
01:15:30.560 --> 01:15:33.039
than your head. Don't let logic get in the way
1684
01:15:33.079 --> 01:15:36.199
of a good idea. And listen to your family and friends.
1685
01:15:36.399 --> 01:15:39.220
But sometimes, you know, most importantly, just kind of listen
1686
01:15:39.260 --> 01:15:41.100
to what you feel you're meant to be doing, not
1687
01:15:41.119 --> 01:15:42.159
what people have told you to do.
1688
01:15:42.479 --> 01:15:44.140
I love that. Well, thank you so much. Thank you
1689
01:15:44.159 --> 01:15:47.710
for sharing your wisdom. And, yeah, I mean, we'll leave
1690
01:15:47.729 --> 01:15:49.229
all of your info in the show notes, but I'm
1691
01:15:49.250 --> 01:15:50.989
sure people have seen you before and I'm sure they
1692
01:15:51.010 --> 01:15:52.149
will be seeing you again.
1693
01:15:52.170 --> 01:15:54.710
Sorry about that, folks. See you in your four-year period.
1694
01:16:19.199 --> 01:16:21.800
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Can I get a witness to the creamiest, most heavenly
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What is up?
35
00:01:51.700 --> 00:01:53.980
I'm Grace Beverley and welcome back to Working Hard, the
36
00:01:54.000 --> 00:01:56.269
podcast-shaped guidebook on how to improve your own life and
37
00:01:56.310 --> 00:01:58.650
achieve what you actually dreamed of doing. Because life's too
38
00:01:58.689 --> 00:02:05.280
short for boring podcasts and bad advice. What is up
39
00:02:05.400 --> 00:02:08.039
and welcome back to Working Hard. Guys, I'm so excited
40
00:02:08.060 --> 00:02:10.400
for you to listen to this episode. I want to
41
00:02:10.439 --> 00:02:12.139
start with something that I think a lot of people
42
00:02:12.159 --> 00:02:14.539
will relate to. There's that feeling of knowing that there's
43
00:02:14.580 --> 00:02:16.900
something you want to build or create or do, but
44
00:02:17.319 --> 00:02:20.319
constantly finding reasons why now isn't the right time. And
45
00:02:20.340 --> 00:02:22.969
the person I'm speaking to today has spent his entire
46
00:02:23.039 --> 00:02:26.210
career trying to prove that wrong. Simon Squibb went from
47
00:02:26.289 --> 00:02:29.490
sleeping rough at 15, starting a small gardening business, and
48
00:02:29.569 --> 00:02:33.750
step-by-step building business by business, and eventually experiencing a life-changing
49
00:02:33.789 --> 00:02:36.669
business sale. Since then, he's dedicated his life to funding
50
00:02:36.710 --> 00:02:39.270
strangers' dreams on the street and built a global movement
51
00:02:39.330 --> 00:02:41.879
around the idea that everyone deserves a shot. If you're
52
00:02:41.900 --> 00:02:43.620
confused about your path or you've got an idea that
53
00:02:43.639 --> 00:02:46.699
you just can't shake, this episode is a proper step-by-step
54
00:02:46.759 --> 00:02:49.659
guide to building your dream. We get into what freedom
55
00:02:49.740 --> 00:02:52.219
actually means, how to figure out what you actually want,
56
00:02:52.340 --> 00:02:54.870
how to start without quitting your whole life and what
57
00:02:54.990 --> 00:02:57.770
failure really teaches you. But before we get into the episode,
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00:02:57.849 --> 00:02:59.810
please make sure you're following the podcast on whatever you're
59
00:02:59.830 --> 00:03:01.949
listening to it on right now. It means a lot
60
00:03:01.969 --> 00:03:04.110
to us, but it also means that you get a
61
00:03:04.169 --> 00:03:06.840
new episode in your feed every single Monday completely for
62
00:03:06.849 --> 00:03:09.080
free with no paywall and means that we can keep
63
00:03:09.139 --> 00:03:16.629
it that way. Simon Squibb are you currently more working
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00:03:16.669 --> 00:03:17.669
hard or hardly working?
65
00:03:18.289 --> 00:03:21.069
I'm doing both I think I think it doesn't feel
66
00:03:21.110 --> 00:03:22.969
like work so I feel like I'm hardly working but
67
00:03:23.009 --> 00:03:25.629
I'm actually working hard but I think that's why purpose
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00:03:25.650 --> 00:03:27.870
helps you work without feeling.
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00:03:27.650 --> 00:03:30.530
It yeah and I want to dive into that because
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00:03:30.550 --> 00:03:36.599
your story is incredible even just like going through the
71
00:03:36.939 --> 00:03:40.060
the bullet points of where you've been and everything I
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00:03:40.080 --> 00:03:42.240
want to go right back to the beginning because I
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00:03:42.280 --> 00:03:45.620
feel like that context around your relationship with work is
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00:03:45.659 --> 00:03:50.240
so important. And you've spoken about being 15 and having
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the harrowing experience of watching your father have a heart
76
00:03:53.639 --> 00:03:56.840
attack and becoming homeless and unable to find a job.
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00:03:57.870 --> 00:04:01.509
Can you tell me a little bit about how that
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00:04:01.750 --> 00:04:05.110
shaped your relationship with what I guess was then you
79
00:04:05.129 --> 00:04:09.229
just being thrust into this idea of work as an
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00:04:09.289 --> 00:04:13.110
essential way of keeping you alive rather than maybe leaving
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00:04:13.169 --> 00:04:16.170
school and being able to dawdle around a bit and
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00:04:16.189 --> 00:04:17.410
work out what worked for you.
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00:04:17.709 --> 00:04:20.509
When I think back to my early days, I would
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00:04:20.689 --> 00:04:24.860
probably describe myself as having an unlucky start to life.
85
00:04:25.819 --> 00:04:28.300
But I think luck is a strange thing. Sometimes luck
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00:04:28.319 --> 00:04:31.920
can be perspective. But my father died and I found
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00:04:31.959 --> 00:04:35.910
myself three weeks later homeless. And I did what the
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00:04:35.949 --> 00:04:38.610
system told me to do. The system tells you, go
89
00:04:38.649 --> 00:04:41.029
get a job. You can get a job. Well, the
90
00:04:41.050 --> 00:04:43.050
system tells you if you can't, and I couldn't get
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00:04:43.069 --> 00:04:44.089
a job, by the way, because I don't have a
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00:04:44.089 --> 00:04:46.689
national insurance number and I didn't have an address. So
93
00:04:46.750 --> 00:04:49.129
no one will give me a job. And so then
94
00:04:49.430 --> 00:04:51.949
the system tells you go to social benefit, go get
95
00:04:51.990 --> 00:04:54.430
social security money and they'll give you a home and
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00:04:54.449 --> 00:04:56.310
it will be fine. So I went to the social
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00:04:56.439 --> 00:04:59.699
benefit system and they just basically said no. In fact,
98
00:04:59.720 --> 00:05:01.839
they said, I think, which is kind of worse than no.
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00:05:01.860 --> 00:05:05.360
They're like, no, because there are six other people in
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00:05:05.399 --> 00:05:07.420
front of you that all have kids and they need
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00:05:07.680 --> 00:05:10.459
housing first. And in my head as a 15 year old,
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00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:12.980
I thought I was a fully grown man. And I
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00:05:13.040 --> 00:05:16.579
totally understood. I didn't get angry. No, you've got to
104
00:05:16.600 --> 00:05:19.060
give me a place to stay. I'm a kid. I
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didn't think that. I was like, oh, right. Absolutely. You know,
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00:05:21.360 --> 00:05:24.860
like people have kids need somewhere to stay. I'll be
107
00:05:24.879 --> 00:05:28.569
all right. You know, I can sleep outside. And, you know,
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00:05:28.610 --> 00:05:30.990
so it didn't even occur to me that the fact
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the social system didn't and couldn't help me. It didn't
110
00:05:34.569 --> 00:05:37.350
occur to me that that was wrong. And so then
111
00:05:37.730 --> 00:05:40.709
I just moved into this bird area which is like
112
00:05:40.870 --> 00:05:43.350
an area that i'd never really been taught which is
113
00:05:43.389 --> 00:05:47.990
why i'm so angry today i wasn't taught that i
114
00:05:48.009 --> 00:05:49.370
can have an idea in my head and make it
115
00:05:49.410 --> 00:05:52.670
real and the only reason i discovered this was a
116
00:05:52.850 --> 00:05:56.459
possible thing for humans is because i had no choice
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00:05:57.480 --> 00:05:59.860
and so i had no job i had no social
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00:05:59.959 --> 00:06:03.740
benefit underpinning me and one day i'm walking past a
119
00:06:03.779 --> 00:06:06.180
big house and for the first time in my my
120
00:06:06.240 --> 00:06:09.100
whole life my entrepreneur muscle woke up in my brain
121
00:06:09.680 --> 00:06:11.259
And it spoke to me for the first time. We
122
00:06:11.370 --> 00:06:13.310
all have it. Everybody, every single one of your listeners
123
00:06:13.410 --> 00:06:15.930
has this entrepreneur muscle. If they don't know it, they
124
00:06:16.009 --> 00:06:17.970
have it. You just need it to be activated. And
125
00:06:18.009 --> 00:06:20.629
sometimes having a really difficult thing happen to you can
126
00:06:20.750 --> 00:06:23.389
activate it. So you don't just want it, you need it.
127
00:06:23.500 --> 00:06:24.939
And I needed it to wake up.
128
00:06:25.240 --> 00:06:25.740
And it did.
129
00:06:26.000 --> 00:06:28.180
And it told me the garden was messy in this
130
00:06:28.199 --> 00:06:31.259
big house. Surely they've got the money to pay me
131
00:06:31.279 --> 00:06:34.579
to tidy up their garden. That's it. And then through
132
00:06:34.660 --> 00:06:37.290
Shin having no choice, I walked up to the front
133
00:06:37.310 --> 00:06:38.790
door of that house. I knocked on that door and
134
00:06:38.810 --> 00:06:40.810
I asked the person that answered it, would you let
135
00:06:40.829 --> 00:06:42.680
me take care of your garden and would you pay
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00:06:42.709 --> 00:06:45.360
me to do it? And they said, yes. And that
137
00:06:45.379 --> 00:06:48.360
was it. That was the first gardening company business that
138
00:06:48.399 --> 00:06:51.240
I ever started. And so, yeah, I think that I
139
00:06:51.259 --> 00:06:53.399
look back at my childhood, that kind of stage in
140
00:06:53.420 --> 00:06:55.910
my life in a weird way. I spent a long
141
00:06:55.949 --> 00:06:59.569
time feeling really sad about it and often feeling my
142
00:06:59.629 --> 00:07:02.689
dad was gone. My life was awful. I had such
143
00:07:02.769 --> 00:07:06.209
bad luck. And now I'm, later in life, I look
144
00:07:06.230 --> 00:07:08.370
back at that moment and think, wow, I was kind
145
00:07:08.389 --> 00:07:11.310
of lucky. I was lucky to break free of the system,
146
00:07:11.370 --> 00:07:13.829
the treadmill system. And I was lucky to wake this
147
00:07:13.930 --> 00:07:17.009
part of my brain up that everybody has and realize
148
00:07:17.029 --> 00:07:19.769
that anyone can, if they want, not they should, anyone can,
149
00:07:19.810 --> 00:07:21.550
if they want, be an entrepreneur.
150
00:07:21.790 --> 00:07:24.089
Yeah. And I think that's really powerful. And I think
151
00:07:24.129 --> 00:07:28.589
it reflects why so many entrepreneurs came from a place
152
00:07:28.670 --> 00:07:32.170
where actually, if you ask them, you know, what made
153
00:07:32.209 --> 00:07:32.810
you start it?
154
00:07:32.889 --> 00:07:33.189
Yeah.
155
00:07:33.209 --> 00:07:36.439
So many entrepreneurs have a very specific origin story and
156
00:07:36.480 --> 00:07:37.959
it was this idea and it led to this and
157
00:07:37.990 --> 00:07:40.550
they decided to quit this and whatever I think so
158
00:07:40.629 --> 00:07:45.230
many entrepreneurs come from a position of need where the
159
00:07:45.410 --> 00:07:48.269
maybe not the same kind of existential need that you
160
00:07:48.290 --> 00:07:50.069
were facing at that time but that need of kind
161
00:07:50.110 --> 00:07:53.649
of actually the risk of not doing this feels bigger
162
00:07:54.209 --> 00:07:56.550
because I don't know how I'm going to get to
163
00:07:56.569 --> 00:07:58.129
where I want to in my life if I don't
164
00:07:58.189 --> 00:08:00.750
start taking some big moves. And I think that that
165
00:08:00.870 --> 00:08:04.069
actually is exactly in parallel with what you've just said
166
00:08:04.439 --> 00:08:09.860
in that when you create a life in which taking
167
00:08:09.939 --> 00:08:14.379
risks is the only option, then you start making those
168
00:08:14.459 --> 00:08:17.860
moves at a much higher rate and with much more
169
00:08:17.899 --> 00:08:21.199
enthusiasm because it is your kind of one option. So
170
00:08:21.220 --> 00:08:23.740
I'd love to hear from that point, how did that
171
00:08:23.839 --> 00:08:26.879
turn into your entrepreneurial journey? Because I can imagine at
172
00:08:26.899 --> 00:08:30.250
the same time that turning into anything else would have
173
00:08:30.269 --> 00:08:31.029
still been a leap.
174
00:08:31.410 --> 00:08:34.230
Well, I think what happened to me, you can fabricate
175
00:08:34.250 --> 00:08:36.029
this part of the way you can fabricate. Most people
176
00:08:36.070 --> 00:08:38.529
want to be successful. All your listeners, by asking them
177
00:08:38.549 --> 00:08:39.990
to put up their hands and say, who wants to
178
00:08:40.009 --> 00:08:43.230
be successful? Everyone's listening right now because they do. They
179
00:08:43.269 --> 00:08:45.210
want to make their lives better in all sorts of ways.
180
00:08:46.009 --> 00:08:47.610
The truth is the only way you make your life
181
00:08:47.649 --> 00:08:50.980
better is needing it, but you can fabricate it. So
182
00:08:51.019 --> 00:08:53.200
what happened to me next? Okay, so I started this
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gardening company. I asked someone for help because I didn't
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know what I was doing. And they said they would
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only help me if I paid them. And that was
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my first experience with a course selling model. And they
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said to me something I'll never forget. They said, if
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you don't pay, you don't pay attention. And I remember
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thinking with all my might, like, listen, I'm desperate for knowledge.
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I don't know what I'm doing. I will pay attention.
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This pay to pay attention is not true. It's pain
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that makes people pay attention is what I discover later.
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If you give people pain, then they pay attention. Sometimes
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money can be a little bit of pain, but the
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truth is I had pain. I needed that knowledge and
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it wouldn't help me unless I paid them. And it
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just stuck with me, which is why I'll never charge
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anyone for help. I will not charge people to get
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help because you can't leave people behind. I was left
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behind because I didn't know what I was doing. So
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my first business failed. So gardening company didn't work. In
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the end, it didn't go as the way I'd like
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it to go. So what happened next? Well, I turned 16.
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I had a national insurance number. I was only homeless
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for eight weeks because this gardening company worked at the
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beginning and made money. I got myself a place to stay.
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I had an address. Now I had a national insurance number.
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I could get a job. And that's what I did.
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I got a job. But it was too late for
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me to enter the working world in that way, in
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the system. I'd woken up. My brain would no longer
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accept the way the world as it was. So I
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got a job in a hotel and In the first
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two weeks of being at the hotel, the phone would
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ring and the receptionist would pick it up and be like, hello,
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I'm sorry, we're full in the hotel today and put
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the phone down. So they were so proud to tell
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the guest who was calling for a room. This is
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before the Internet. Your listeners might not remember this. People
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used to ring hotels. So this is a long time ago.
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Put the phone down. And then I said, why did
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we just hang up on that customer? We could have
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got their details. Maybe next time we can tell them
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if we've got a promotion. And the receptionist was like, well,
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you know, this is what we just would fill up.
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We haven't got time to deal with it. We've got
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guests checking in. So I came up with an idea
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of something called Accommodation Express, where people could ring up
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the hotel that was full and we divert them to
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a telephone number that would find them a hotel in
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the nearby facility. And we get 15% commission for booking
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that room. So otherwise the inquiry wouldn't be wasted. And
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I started my second business, Accommodation Express. But basically once
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that entrepreneur muscle had been woken up in my brain,
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I found it very hard to accept a salary and
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be told what to do. And so I started a
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second business called Accommodation Express. And this did work. This
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made me, in my mind at that time, proper money.
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I made £ 80, 000, which at the time was a huge,
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huge sum of money for me. And I managed to
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make a business work. And so I actually had the
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early days of hotel.com. I actually sold that business too early.
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Another mistake. You do make so many mistakes in the process.
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But I went from, okay, I can get a job now.
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to realising that, no, why would I get a job?
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Why would I sell time? It doesn't make any sense.
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I want to build a brand, not just work for
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someone else's brand. I want to build something where eventually
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I own my time.
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And what were the main emotions that made you kind
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of feel that? Because I totally understand the experience of
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I guess, a certain element more freedom when starting your
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own thing or freedom to think and solve problems the
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way you want to. But I also think that given
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how you were at the time, I can imagine that
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that also would have been a huge call internally to security.
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I think that the way you say it, it feels very,
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oh yeah, of course this is the case. Of course
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I exercised that entrepreneurial muscle once and then I thought, well,
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now I'm an entrepreneur, I have to do things that way.
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I can imagine someone in the exact same situation thinking
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the opposite and going, oh, well, that didn't work after,
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you know, that winter because people didn't need gardeners. So
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I need to find something where even if the business
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struggles a bit more, I'm still being paid. What do
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you think it was that made you think of entrepreneurship
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as the only solution for you? rather than one of
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two solutions where one actually maybe is a little bit
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more security for what had been quite an insecure situation
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for yourself.
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Yeah, I'm thinking back. It's a really interesting point. I
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think there was lots of factors. First of all, I
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think once you've experienced entrepreneurship, one, you realize how hard
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it is. But kind of like exercise or anything, something
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hard makes you stronger if you complete it. So I
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got a bit addicted to the building experience. concept. And
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I enjoy it. I enjoy taking something from nothing and
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making it real. And I got a bit addicted to that.
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So when I was in the job, what was security,
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I guess, which was the salary bit, wasn't enough to
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take away that I would pitch an idea to my
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boss and they would say, no, no, Simon, that's not
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what we do here. That's, you know, we're not going
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to take the inquiries and turn it into a business.
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We are a hotel. We just, we just take bookings,
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you know, sell the conference room, please. You know, that
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type of thing.
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Right.
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So I'd woken up. That's the only way I can
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describe it. My ability to accept commands that didn't make
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sense or opportunities that were being missed, my brain just
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wouldn't accept it anymore. If I hadn't started something that failed,
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I wouldn't have felt that feeling I'm talking about.
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It's so funny because when you say that, that really
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makes me think of what I felt originally when... Because
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I only did 13 months in corporate before I guess
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I became an entrepreneur. And the only reason that happened,
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I think I would have done well more... had I
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started in that corporate world after university. But because I
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did that before university, when I was 18, and the
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one main thing I had issues with in the corporate world,
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I didn't mind the hours, I didn't mind having a boss,
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I didn't mind, or I found it very glamorous. I
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thought it was great. I loved tottering around. I thought
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it was what I wanted to do. The thing that
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frustrated me the most was when things were being done slowly, inefficiently,
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or in a way that didn't make sense to the business.
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And there was no way to change it because it
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was just the way things were done. I think had
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I not got so frustrated with that, I would have
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gone to university, started the businesses as I did and
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still gone back into corporate because I would have thought
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just as I haven't tried entrepreneurship, I haven't tried my
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corporate dream yet. So I need to also see that
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through to see if that's the right thing for me.
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And it's so funny. I always wonder about whether that
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is something that everyone has or whether it's like I
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see it as almost a, I think it could be
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a negative trait in some ways, like the inability to
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put up with things being done badly and just want to,
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even if it takes double the amount of time to
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actually fix the process. Just to not see things being
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done in a stupid way.
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I totally agree.
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Once you get that itch, it means that like anytime
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I talk to a business owner now, anytime I'm speaking
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about a specific problem, even if it's not one I've
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got a business in that area, I'm like, I could
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probably spend an hour talking to you extremely passionately about
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why something doesn't make sense. And that is the essence
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of entrepreneurship.
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I completely agree I think people listening there's um there's
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something about this it's quite important I think to dig
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into you kind of again I believe everyone can be
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an entrepreneur not everyone agrees with me on this but
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I think the thing that we're talking about here it's
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not a skill set thing it's a realization that you
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are in control of things thing and and once you
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have control over your life it's very hard to give
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it back right so it's like I mean I've never
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been to prison but I don't know what it's like
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imagine being released and then You have to follow the
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rules when you're out of prison still again. But being
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in prison was the reason you're not going to commit
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a crime again. I think people don't understand that they
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can control their own destiny. And that includes frustrations in
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your life. So, for example, I only work with people
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I like. I don't have to work with people that
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I don't. have fun with right i don't have to
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whereas in corporate you have to do that why would
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you there's little things right if there's an opportunity in
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the business to make your customers happier by investing a
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bit more you can just do it whereas a finance
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department would say well you know cost covering we're not
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sure we want to do that it's just you can
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do things and i think it's something everyone can do
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and once you experience it you you won't want to
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go back it's a bit like being a parent on
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paper being a parent makes no sense yeah zero so
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i've got an eight-year-old right And when you look at it,
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you're going to lose time. It's going to cost you money.
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You could argue it's stressful. That's why a lot of
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young people aren't having kids now. Because on paper, it
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doesn't make sense. But when you have a kid, you
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have unconditional love. You never experience it until you have
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a kid. I don't have unconditional love for my parents
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or my family or my friends. You have conditional love.
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But when you have a kid of your own, it's
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unconditional love. And having your own business is a similar
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kind of thing. You just have control and you have
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unconditional love for it. And that can't be had via logic.
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Salary makes sense logically, but the upside is capped. That's obvious.
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But the control is the most beautiful thing. Own your hours.
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You and I can stop this podcast right now and
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just go for lunch if we want. We have that power.
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Why would you not want that? That's total freedom. That's
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totally out of the prison. Freedom, right?
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Oh, see, that's where we differ. I think that, like,
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I completely understand that logic. And I think it makes
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total sense. I don't, and maybe it's because I have
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investor-backed businesses. I mean, not all of my businesses are investor-backed.
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And maybe it's because, I don't know, maybe it's the
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way I see things or, like, whatever it might be.
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But I don't believe there's any job in which you
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don't have a boss. I think that, and where you
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have total freedom.
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By the way, I agree with you.
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I have a bosses too because that's the thing is
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in like what I don't want people to do is
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to start a business purely because they don't want a
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boss I think that that is one thing that it
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can be a big reason and you can still make
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it big and you can still do incredible things but
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you're always going to have a boss like my my
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boss is the customers it's the investors it's the money
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we've put into the cash flow of ordering certain things.
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So yeah, we could go for lunch, but actually if
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we don't do the thing that needs to be done
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in order to make the marketing happen to do that,
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then you're fucked and you go back to having a
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different type of boss or whatever it might be. I
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so strongly believe that there are different jobs for different
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people in that if you're risk averse in a way
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that it makes you anxious to be ever in a
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situation where there is more risk rather than it making
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you hungry. then maybe it's not the right thing for you.
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Maybe your better version of a boss is a traditional
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boss versus all of these different things that, yeah, one
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day you might feel total freedom, the next day it
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might come slamming down on you and you realize that
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you're now in hundreds of thousands worth of debt or
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whatever it might be. I do totally agree with you
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that most people assume that the way they're doing things
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and the way they're making money is the way that
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it has to be and I think that that's far
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more compelling coming from you because I come from a
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much more privileged background and I think that if I
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sit here and say like oh but you could all
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do this when actually I will have access to so
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many more things that you know other people might not
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do I think that it points me to the fact
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that actually all I want is as you say for
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00:19:57.920 --> 00:20:00.720
people to think more about the opportunities that are actually
424
00:20:00.759 --> 00:20:03.019
ahead of them and what they're genuinely suited to and
425
00:20:03.079 --> 00:20:05.279
if it is just the fear holding you back rather
426
00:20:05.299 --> 00:20:09.730
than because it's maybe not a go for it like
427
00:20:09.750 --> 00:20:11.410
a hundred percent go for it i.
428
00:20:11.349 --> 00:20:13.390
Agree with what you're saying i think there's always nuance
429
00:20:13.410 --> 00:20:16.670
so when we're having these kind of like uh conversations
430
00:20:16.690 --> 00:20:19.390
let's say about freedom for a second if i walked
431
00:20:19.430 --> 00:20:21.339
out of this podcast right now it would be a
432
00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:24.000
good clip the podcast would probably do better you'll make
433
00:20:24.019 --> 00:20:25.960
you'll make more money literally if i just walk i'm
434
00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:28.119
leaving this is not the interview i wanted i'm sorry
435
00:20:28.140 --> 00:20:31.869
it's rude i'm not this is gonna help the podcast
436
00:20:32.549 --> 00:20:35.309
right so freedom comes.
437
00:20:35.130 --> 00:20:38.390
You underestimate my um my conviction in myself because if
438
00:20:38.410 --> 00:20:38.970
you think that i.
439
00:20:38.930 --> 00:20:41.920
Would post that no but you know what i mean
440
00:20:41.960 --> 00:20:43.920
like no no if you and i left for lunch
441
00:20:43.980 --> 00:20:46.119
now you've got the wrong investors if they care about
442
00:20:46.140 --> 00:20:48.140
that and if customers don't understand that you know what
443
00:20:48.180 --> 00:20:50.859
we decide just to go for lunch probably got wrong
444
00:20:50.900 --> 00:20:54.940
customers too see so so for me my personal freedom
445
00:20:55.299 --> 00:20:58.099
that i make content personal brand is one of the
446
00:20:58.160 --> 00:21:02.190
hardest things i've ever done i built 19 companies personal
447
00:21:02.230 --> 00:21:04.119
brand building has been the hardest thing I've ever done
448
00:21:04.220 --> 00:21:07.779
why because I'm actually trapped in it I have to
449
00:21:07.819 --> 00:21:10.299
do it every day I work for my team they
450
00:21:10.339 --> 00:21:12.660
tell me when I have to record I want to
451
00:21:12.680 --> 00:21:15.099
have breakfast with my family this morning Dudley my team
452
00:21:15.119 --> 00:21:16.859
wanted to meet me at 7am because we're doing a
453
00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:19.779
documentary on university and he wanted me to record so
454
00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:22.039
I kind of work for them but what I'm getting
455
00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:25.460
to is like having said all of that I do
456
00:21:25.720 --> 00:21:28.710
have freedom because it's my choice to do that Yeah,
457
00:21:28.730 --> 00:21:31.170
it's like a choosing your heart. And this is what's important.
458
00:21:31.269 --> 00:21:33.970
And I'm not glamorizing it. I'm not saying it's an
459
00:21:34.049 --> 00:21:36.430
easier life. And I agree with you. I have a boss.
460
00:21:36.970 --> 00:21:38.690
The team that I work for tell me what to do.
461
00:21:39.099 --> 00:21:40.779
I have a boss. The dream is that I promise
462
00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:43.839
to help, right? I have a boss, my wife, right?
463
00:21:44.119 --> 00:21:46.140
I have plenty of bosses, but all of them are
464
00:21:46.160 --> 00:21:48.039
aligned with my values. And if today I want a
465
00:21:48.039 --> 00:21:50.289
day off, I will do it. And yes, that might
466
00:21:50.329 --> 00:21:52.369
mean the income of the business drops a bit, but
467
00:21:52.650 --> 00:21:54.690
we have to have freedom. And I think that's what
468
00:21:54.710 --> 00:21:56.910
I don't like about the present system. People at nine
469
00:21:56.950 --> 00:21:59.690
o'clock turn up, finish at three. Quickly, I'll say the
470
00:21:59.710 --> 00:22:02.289
other side of it. I love data. And I'm looking
471
00:22:02.309 --> 00:22:06.599
at the data at the moment of 700,000 university students
472
00:22:06.680 --> 00:22:10.140
that have come out of university with an on average debt, 58,000 pounds,
473
00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:13.500
spent four years of their life in university, promised a job.
474
00:22:14.500 --> 00:22:15.700
No job. They can't find a job.
475
00:22:15.700 --> 00:22:15.900
700,000 kids.
476
00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:17.950
There are 9,500 graduate jobs for those kids.
477
00:22:18.289 --> 00:22:18.569
Okay.
478
00:22:18.589 --> 00:22:26.660
So there's not enough jobs. And they're sitting there, many
479
00:22:26.700 --> 00:22:29.369
on social benefit, very talented, probably a lot of them
480
00:22:29.380 --> 00:22:32.750
are your listeners, ready to go. And the job doesn't exist.
481
00:22:33.390 --> 00:22:35.650
So my argument now, and I've been making this argument
482
00:22:35.670 --> 00:22:37.210
for six years, but now I've got data to back
483
00:22:37.250 --> 00:22:40.069
me up. We want to give people the chance to
484
00:22:40.109 --> 00:22:42.930
create their own job until they find one. Let's put
485
00:22:42.950 --> 00:22:45.099
it that way. Until they find the safe job with
486
00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:50.299
the perfect boss and the perfect customers, great. But we
487
00:22:50.319 --> 00:22:51.480
want to give people a chance to create their own job.
488
00:22:51.559 --> 00:22:53.480
And my version of entrepreneurship might be a little bit
489
00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:55.500
different to how you and I are operating. You and
490
00:22:55.519 --> 00:22:58.980
I operating, I've got investors in my businesses. Sure, we're
491
00:22:59.019 --> 00:23:01.269
operating a different type of entrepreneurship, but there's different types
492
00:23:01.309 --> 00:23:04.450
of entrepreneurship. I met someone yesterday who can't find a job.
493
00:23:04.569 --> 00:23:07.609
They've lost all their confidence. They have no confidence. I
494
00:23:07.630 --> 00:23:08.990
said to him, what do you love to do? I
495
00:23:09.029 --> 00:23:11.670
love to walk dogs. I'm like, start a dog walking business.
496
00:23:11.690 --> 00:23:14.269
I have a working caucus manual. that needs walking all
497
00:23:14.289 --> 00:23:15.970
the time. I'll pay you to walk my dog. And
498
00:23:16.009 --> 00:23:18.710
I'm not the only one that needs that. So if
499
00:23:18.750 --> 00:23:20.369
you love walking dogs, why don't you just do that
500
00:23:20.410 --> 00:23:22.450
for now? Make a little bit of money, have some fun,
501
00:23:22.670 --> 00:23:25.299
build a little fun business that probably will fail. But
502
00:23:25.619 --> 00:23:27.059
people need to create their own job when there isn't one.
503
00:23:27.579 --> 00:23:30.019
And that's what I'm getting to now. Entrepreneurship is the
504
00:23:30.039 --> 00:23:31.680
wrong word. It's a French word. It's the wrong word.
505
00:23:31.700 --> 00:23:33.140
I'm trying to think of a better word. But it's like,
506
00:23:33.779 --> 00:23:36.059
go out there and do something with your talents. The
507
00:23:36.079 --> 00:23:38.119
thing you love, match it with the thing that you
508
00:23:39.490 --> 00:23:41.920
You think that you're good at, you know, and so
509
00:23:41.940 --> 00:23:43.500
don't wait for someone to give you the keys to
510
00:23:43.519 --> 00:23:45.980
a better life by giving you a job. And so
511
00:23:46.440 --> 00:23:48.720
I think that I don't want to glamorize entrepreneurship. I've
512
00:23:48.759 --> 00:23:50.960
never said it was easy. I think working for yourself
513
00:23:51.019 --> 00:23:52.859
is hard at the beginning, does get easier over time.
514
00:23:53.599 --> 00:23:55.180
Working for someone else is easy at the beginning, gets
515
00:23:55.240 --> 00:23:57.500
harder over time. Let's face it. So people get a
516
00:23:57.539 --> 00:24:00.220
new boss come in. Oh, I'm new. I'm doing things differently.
517
00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:02.119
I don't care that you work till midnight every day
518
00:24:02.140 --> 00:24:04.440
for the last three years. I'm the new boss and
519
00:24:04.480 --> 00:24:06.049
I need to see that you're good enough. Oh, I'll
520
00:24:06.069 --> 00:24:08.119
bring my old team in and you're out. I know
521
00:24:08.140 --> 00:24:10.079
people that have worked in companies 10 years, like Oracle
522
00:24:10.119 --> 00:24:13.640
just laid off 30,000 people. They built that company. They're gone.
523
00:24:13.900 --> 00:24:16.220
They're out. They own nothing. So to me, it's like,
524
00:24:16.339 --> 00:24:19.549
why not give people this one other option, which is entrepreneurship,
525
00:24:19.660 --> 00:24:21.609
for want of a better word, a chance to do
526
00:24:21.670 --> 00:24:24.150
something you love every day. Forget the money. If you
527
00:24:24.170 --> 00:24:26.349
can just pay your bills, that's a win. If you're
528
00:24:26.369 --> 00:24:27.269
doing something you love every day.
529
00:24:27.569 --> 00:24:29.630
I totally agree with that. I also think the one
530
00:24:29.670 --> 00:24:32.829
thing that, on top of that, that people miss in
531
00:24:32.890 --> 00:24:36.500
what you're saying is the end failure of the business...
532
00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:39.500
for example, so say your gardening business or a dog
533
00:24:39.539 --> 00:24:42.349
walking business or whatever it might be, that is no
534
00:24:42.380 --> 00:24:45.849
different from just leaving a job. Whereas that carries so
535
00:24:45.910 --> 00:24:48.950
much more weight for people. Like if I start something
536
00:24:48.970 --> 00:24:51.789
and it doesn't go on to be this massive thing
537
00:24:51.849 --> 00:24:54.150
and scale in all these different ways and all of this,
538
00:24:54.650 --> 00:24:57.039
if it gave you a job for those few months
539
00:24:57.259 --> 00:25:00.019
or for that year or for those few years or
540
00:25:00.039 --> 00:25:02.579
for that fucking week, like you earned some extra money,
541
00:25:03.259 --> 00:25:05.400
that was still success for the purpose that it served
542
00:25:05.440 --> 00:25:07.609
at the time. And I think that it's so easy.
543
00:25:07.630 --> 00:25:09.730
I think particularly with social media now where you're seeing
544
00:25:09.829 --> 00:25:12.210
so many people do so many incredible things and build
545
00:25:12.349 --> 00:25:15.369
massive companies and all of this, it's really easy to
546
00:25:15.430 --> 00:25:18.849
think that actually the solution you're looking for has to
547
00:25:18.910 --> 00:25:23.779
be this big bolt wheel reinvention type thing. When in reality,
548
00:25:23.880 --> 00:25:26.940
the large majority of businesses, A, didn't start like that. B,
549
00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:28.940
not every business needs to be the biggest business in
550
00:25:28.980 --> 00:25:32.170
the world. Like, If your business's aim is to keep
551
00:25:32.210 --> 00:25:35.619
you afloat and to mean that you can, as you say,
552
00:25:36.130 --> 00:25:39.319
maybe choose your hours, maybe do something you love, maybe
553
00:25:39.339 --> 00:25:40.880
be on your feet rather than be at a desk,
554
00:25:40.960 --> 00:25:44.019
whatever it might be that motivates you, that is still
555
00:25:44.039 --> 00:25:46.980
a version of success. And I think so many people
556
00:25:47.019 --> 00:25:49.319
are put off by this idea of kind of where
557
00:25:49.339 --> 00:25:50.680
does it go in a few years? That used to
558
00:25:50.700 --> 00:25:53.839
be my biggest thing when I started my first company
559
00:25:53.859 --> 00:25:56.099
and when I first came out of university. I was
560
00:25:56.140 --> 00:25:57.740
just shit scared. I was like, what do I do
561
00:25:57.769 --> 00:26:00.210
with this company in 10 years, 15 years, 20 years?
562
00:26:00.650 --> 00:26:01.730
Because I was like, oh, I don't know if the
563
00:26:01.750 --> 00:26:03.769
model now would work for it then. It's like, stop
564
00:26:03.829 --> 00:26:06.890
thinking about that. Stop obsessing over where this is in
565
00:26:06.930 --> 00:26:09.500
a few years. Start obsessing with how it's serving you
566
00:26:09.619 --> 00:26:13.099
and the customers and the company now. And I think
567
00:26:13.200 --> 00:26:15.940
that if more people thought about things in the way
568
00:26:15.980 --> 00:26:18.720
that you've just suggested and just said, okay, what would
569
00:26:18.759 --> 00:26:21.160
make my year better? If I didn't work for this
570
00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:23.259
person and if I had a bit more money and
571
00:26:23.299 --> 00:26:26.779
if I was on my feet more, great. There's 100%
572
00:26:26.779 --> 00:26:28.599
something you can do even on top of your existing
573
00:26:28.640 --> 00:26:31.759
job that will get you to that result. It's just
574
00:26:31.859 --> 00:26:34.309
maybe you are being held back by thinking that that's
575
00:26:34.369 --> 00:26:36.730
not gonna, you know, that doesn't put you squarely within
576
00:26:36.789 --> 00:26:39.309
entrepreneurship or that doesn't make you build the type of
577
00:26:39.349 --> 00:26:41.289
company that you're gonna sell. It doesn't need to be
578
00:26:41.329 --> 00:26:45.319
all about The new AI thing and the new tech, whatchamacallit,
579
00:26:45.359 --> 00:26:47.220
and something that's going to be sold to an investor.
580
00:26:47.380 --> 00:26:49.420
Well said, by the way. Thank you. I give a
581
00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:52.440
round of applause. I hope your audience are. You're like
582
00:26:52.480 --> 00:26:54.740
the cooler, younger version of me. I already know that.
583
00:26:54.769 --> 00:26:55.289
Thanks.
584
00:26:55.589 --> 00:26:58.349
Everything you just said, I just want people to replay
585
00:26:58.369 --> 00:27:02.990
it if they could. Just because it doesn't sink in.
586
00:27:03.470 --> 00:27:07.430
If people don't understand the power of your imagination and
587
00:27:07.509 --> 00:27:09.809
do it. If you're sitting there with no job in particular,
588
00:27:10.369 --> 00:27:11.190
please don't give up.
589
00:27:11.450 --> 00:27:11.670
Mm-hmm.
590
00:27:11.829 --> 00:27:15.289
Because that's not your only avenue, right? And so I
591
00:27:15.309 --> 00:27:17.670
just want people to take control, agency over their life
592
00:27:17.710 --> 00:27:20.710
a little bit. Like I did, by luck, by chance,
593
00:27:21.069 --> 00:27:23.359
it happened to me. So I've seen the difference of
594
00:27:23.410 --> 00:27:26.619
having the right mindset and not being a victim. I
595
00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:29.039
could have been a victim. And I was lucky. I
596
00:27:29.059 --> 00:27:31.059
don't know how I didn't end up a victim. But
597
00:27:31.119 --> 00:27:33.980
then I have control over my life. I realised that
598
00:27:34.140 --> 00:27:35.200
I can make my own luck.
599
00:27:35.539 --> 00:27:37.420
And along those lines, what would you say your big
600
00:27:37.460 --> 00:27:39.259
break was? Like, when did you get that big break?
601
00:27:39.279 --> 00:27:42.089
Because you've gone from gardening to starting 19 companies and
602
00:27:42.119 --> 00:27:43.559
having some pretty whopping.
603
00:27:43.309 --> 00:27:46.849
Exits as well. Well, I think luck plays a huge
604
00:27:46.890 --> 00:27:51.269
part in life. But you can hack luck, it turns out.
605
00:27:51.819 --> 00:27:56.180
So you mentioned earlier having, you know, privilege. I've done
606
00:27:56.220 --> 00:27:58.319
a lot of research. I've actually done the world's largest
607
00:27:58.359 --> 00:28:00.400
human survey. I've been saying this, I'm getting away with it,
608
00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:02.529
so I'm going to keep saying it. I've done the
609
00:28:02.549 --> 00:28:06.009
world's largest human survey. I've asked over 10,000 people what
610
00:28:06.029 --> 00:28:07.990
their dream is all over the world. I've been from
611
00:28:08.049 --> 00:28:11.289
Hong Kong to LA to, of course, London. I've asked
612
00:28:11.329 --> 00:28:14.930
people this question and I've kind of discovered something. I've
613
00:28:14.950 --> 00:28:16.829
discovered quite a few things, but one of the mind-blowing
614
00:28:16.869 --> 00:28:20.150
things is the people I find are the happiest people
615
00:28:20.799 --> 00:28:23.420
are often those paid the least, working the longest hours.
616
00:28:24.059 --> 00:28:26.160
And they're not necessarily entrepreneurs, by the way, because I
617
00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:27.680
think a lot of entrepreneurs are also doing it wrong
618
00:28:27.960 --> 00:28:30.940
because they're chasing the big exit statement or they're chasing
619
00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:34.220
the big valuation statement. I think not enough people are
620
00:28:34.240 --> 00:28:37.240
doing what I've seen the most happiest people do. And
621
00:28:37.480 --> 00:28:39.579
the most happiest people I've met in the world that
622
00:28:39.740 --> 00:28:42.069
often tell me what their dream is, they tell me
623
00:28:42.269 --> 00:28:47.609
they're living it. And that is nurses and police and
624
00:28:47.650 --> 00:28:50.859
folks in the fibre grade. Those that are helping other people.
625
00:28:51.210 --> 00:28:53.420
Those that get up every day and they save a life.
626
00:28:53.920 --> 00:28:55.559
Get up every day and make a difference in someone's
627
00:28:55.599 --> 00:28:58.740
life because we're actually tribal. We've kind of forgotten this.
628
00:28:58.799 --> 00:29:01.900
In a slightly materialistic world, it's about the house we've
629
00:29:01.920 --> 00:29:04.039
got and the car we've got. We've forgotten, actually, it's
630
00:29:04.119 --> 00:29:06.599
each other we need. It's very cheesy, but the people
631
00:29:06.619 --> 00:29:08.160
I've seen that are the happiest are the ones that
632
00:29:08.200 --> 00:29:11.779
are serving other people, including entrepreneurs. The entrepreneurs that I
633
00:29:11.819 --> 00:29:14.220
meet that are just trying to be the next Uber,
634
00:29:15.140 --> 00:29:17.690
not that happy, actually. But the ones I see that
635
00:29:17.750 --> 00:29:20.450
are chasing solving a problem in the world, I'm trying
636
00:29:20.470 --> 00:29:23.130
to fix the education system. I am the happiest I've
637
00:29:23.170 --> 00:29:25.380
ever been in my life because I have a mission
638
00:29:25.940 --> 00:29:28.619
beyond me, beyond making money. We make money. We make
639
00:29:28.660 --> 00:29:31.240
a lot of money. But that's not my aim. Ironically,
640
00:29:31.259 --> 00:29:32.640
I think you make more money when your aim is
641
00:29:32.660 --> 00:29:33.839
to bring value to the world, right?
642
00:29:33.859 --> 00:29:33.980
Yeah.
643
00:29:34.339 --> 00:29:37.000
No, it's so true because I 100% agree. I meet
644
00:29:37.039 --> 00:29:40.170
a lot of entrepreneurs who, don't get me wrong, far
645
00:29:40.210 --> 00:29:43.230
better at entrepreneurship than I am because they are looking
646
00:29:43.250 --> 00:29:47.859
at this big problem that's needed for a really niche
647
00:29:48.039 --> 00:29:51.420
tech space, B2B, like all of this. And they think
648
00:29:51.440 --> 00:29:53.819
of an incredible solution and they build it and they
649
00:29:54.019 --> 00:29:55.640
are bringing it to market and they're going for that
650
00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:59.519
big exit. I honestly... do not think anything would make
651
00:29:59.559 --> 00:30:02.000
me more miserable. Like that's not where I get fulfillment
652
00:30:02.039 --> 00:30:04.059
because if the end goal is where the fulfillment comes from,
653
00:30:04.079 --> 00:30:05.519
then I've never been fulfilled a day in my life
654
00:30:05.539 --> 00:30:08.160
because I've not exited a single business other than investments.
655
00:30:08.180 --> 00:30:10.160
Like I'm not, you know, all of that. I think
656
00:30:10.240 --> 00:30:14.619
that even what you say, I think that some people
657
00:30:14.660 --> 00:30:16.140
might listen to that and be like, okay, well, I
658
00:30:16.180 --> 00:30:20.240
don't have an amazing not-for-profit idea or an incredible social
659
00:30:20.289 --> 00:30:22.490
enterprise or whatever it might be. But even on a
660
00:30:22.529 --> 00:30:26.630
micro level, like even none of my businesses are saving lives, right?
661
00:30:27.470 --> 00:30:29.980
When I talk to a Tala customer who's told me
662
00:30:30.019 --> 00:30:33.539
that they have never felt confident in their body until
663
00:30:33.559 --> 00:30:36.099
they've put our clothes on and walked out of that
664
00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:40.119
store feeling like a million bucks. Like that or someone
665
00:30:40.180 --> 00:30:43.279
who's been able to actually get their career on track
666
00:30:43.299 --> 00:30:46.240
through using the productivity method things like or actually being
667
00:30:46.279 --> 00:30:48.019
able to work as a creator full time for the
668
00:30:48.059 --> 00:30:50.630
first time through retrograde, whatever it might be. None of
669
00:30:50.670 --> 00:30:53.170
that is saving lives, but it's still fulfillment because as
670
00:30:53.210 --> 00:30:56.950
you say, being able to solve problems for other people,
671
00:30:57.250 --> 00:31:00.980
whilst also not entirely selfishly solving a problem for yourself
672
00:31:01.059 --> 00:31:02.519
in terms of the type of life you want to have,
673
00:31:02.559 --> 00:31:04.279
the type of work you want to have, the type
674
00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:06.700
of company you want to build, like there is so
675
00:31:06.779 --> 00:31:09.000
much joy in that. And I think that in a
676
00:31:09.079 --> 00:31:11.180
world where we've tried to get rid of as much
677
00:31:11.240 --> 00:31:14.769
friction as possible from literally every area of our lives,
678
00:31:15.109 --> 00:31:18.309
you have to get fulfillment from somewhere. And usually that
679
00:31:18.349 --> 00:31:20.430
comes with a little bit of friction. Usually that comes
680
00:31:20.450 --> 00:31:23.529
with a bit of hard work. And actually, out the
681
00:31:23.569 --> 00:31:26.269
other end, that is when you feel great about things.
682
00:31:26.549 --> 00:31:28.849
I like listening to you talk. Thanks so much.
683
00:31:29.210 --> 00:31:31.349
There's a podcast going on.
684
00:31:31.359 --> 00:31:35.880
Well, tune in. You have a new fan. There's something
685
00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:40.220
about the way you describe things that it's so important.
686
00:31:40.440 --> 00:31:43.319
First of all, I think you are saving lives. I've
687
00:31:43.339 --> 00:31:46.500
actually met people that were inspired by your content that
688
00:31:46.519 --> 00:31:49.400
decided to carry on. With their dream, with their life,
689
00:31:49.460 --> 00:31:50.880
with their hopes and wishes.
690
00:31:51.259 --> 00:31:51.460
Right.
691
00:31:51.839 --> 00:31:54.240
So I wouldn't undervalue yourself for a second.
692
00:31:54.400 --> 00:31:54.619
All right.
693
00:31:54.920 --> 00:31:57.660
You have saved lives. Katie on my team, for example,
694
00:31:57.680 --> 00:31:59.240
has watched your content when she was going through a
695
00:31:59.279 --> 00:32:02.660
hard time and you helped her. Now, I'm telling I'm
696
00:32:02.680 --> 00:32:05.619
telling you right now that what you're doing is more
697
00:32:05.640 --> 00:32:08.160
profound than you perhaps give it credit for. Now, however,
698
00:32:08.220 --> 00:32:10.369
I totally agree with you that people listening, you don't
699
00:32:10.380 --> 00:32:13.210
have to start there. I actually think charity related businesses
700
00:32:13.250 --> 00:32:15.569
are a bit broken. So when I started out six
701
00:32:15.589 --> 00:32:17.890
years ago, my original thinking is maybe I'll get into politics.
702
00:32:17.950 --> 00:32:20.190
I'll go and fix the education system from inside the system.
703
00:32:20.529 --> 00:32:22.210
And then I realized something I know to be true.
704
00:32:22.259 --> 00:32:23.730
You can't put a fire out in a house unless
705
00:32:23.759 --> 00:32:25.680
you're outside the house. So I decided to fix the
706
00:32:25.700 --> 00:32:30.319
education system from outside it. When I first started making content,
707
00:32:30.700 --> 00:32:33.980
what I quickly realized was the first bucket I needed
708
00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:37.079
to fill was my own. So I wanted to help people.
709
00:32:37.099 --> 00:32:38.759
I wanted to feel useful and I wanted to be seen.
710
00:32:39.440 --> 00:32:43.180
my whole journey is a selfish one. I wasn't doing
711
00:32:43.240 --> 00:32:46.029
it to be philanthropic. I wasn't doing it to give back.
712
00:32:46.160 --> 00:32:48.809
I wanted to be useful. I'd sold my company and
713
00:32:48.829 --> 00:32:51.190
I fell into a kind of depression. I'm like, what
714
00:32:51.210 --> 00:32:54.250
am I here for? What's the point? I've done it now.
715
00:32:54.329 --> 00:32:56.950
I'm not poor anymore. I've got, it's not money I need,
716
00:32:57.450 --> 00:33:00.970
but I felt totally lost. And what's the point of
717
00:33:01.009 --> 00:33:03.640
being here? So I started my content series from a
718
00:33:03.660 --> 00:33:06.559
very selfish point of view. Like people were struggling online,
719
00:33:06.599 --> 00:33:09.710
being sold courses that were bullshit, that were just, promise
720
00:33:09.730 --> 00:33:11.990
them to get rich quick so I jumped into TikTok
721
00:33:12.009 --> 00:33:14.150
where they were hearing this bullshit and said that's bullshit
722
00:33:14.500 --> 00:33:16.039
this is how you build a business and so it's
723
00:33:16.140 --> 00:33:18.519
very very selfish it wasn't I wanted to solve a
724
00:33:18.599 --> 00:33:21.539
big problem necessarily at the beginning I built into my
725
00:33:21.579 --> 00:33:23.859
mission but initially I just wanted to solve a problem
726
00:33:23.940 --> 00:33:26.880
I had which was I felt useless I didn't feel
727
00:33:26.900 --> 00:33:28.660
like I was doing any good in the world just
728
00:33:28.720 --> 00:33:31.099
sitting around playing golf driving a fancy car which I
729
00:33:31.140 --> 00:33:32.559
know the listener is going to be oh poor Simon
730
00:33:32.589 --> 00:33:35.190
that must have been hard it was not fun I
731
00:33:35.470 --> 00:33:38.829
had no point to my life so I I think
732
00:33:39.009 --> 00:33:41.690
for profit, for good, by the way, is a really
733
00:33:41.750 --> 00:33:43.890
healthy way to look at a business now going forward.
734
00:33:44.369 --> 00:33:47.740
Fill your own bucket. Make money for yourself. But then
735
00:33:47.799 --> 00:33:50.140
maybe like we do, we take a large proportion of
736
00:33:50.180 --> 00:33:52.559
our profits and we give it to fund people's dreams.
737
00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:57.079
So we've given £ 426, 000 away this year to people to
738
00:33:57.119 --> 00:33:58.769
help them with their dreams. We're not Dragon's Den. We
739
00:33:58.789 --> 00:34:01.609
haven't taken equity. We don't want anything back. And I'm
740
00:34:01.750 --> 00:34:05.130
so like, I feel so happy about that, but it's
741
00:34:05.170 --> 00:34:07.849
filled my bucket first. I get to do something where
742
00:34:07.869 --> 00:34:10.139
I get, I'm useful and I get to be seen.
743
00:34:10.610 --> 00:34:13.079
And then my second priority is like to bring value
744
00:34:13.119 --> 00:34:15.679
to those people and actually deliver on what I promised,
745
00:34:15.699 --> 00:34:17.219
which is to help people with their dreams. You see
746
00:34:17.239 --> 00:34:18.920
what I mean? Like, I think too many people think
747
00:34:18.960 --> 00:34:21.119
it has to be this brilliant idea. No, just start
748
00:34:21.139 --> 00:34:23.920
a gardening company, start car cleaning, whatever it is to
749
00:34:23.940 --> 00:34:26.719
get you going. It doesn't have to be this big,
750
00:34:26.780 --> 00:34:30.570
meaningful thing. You've built into your big, meaningful thing, right?
751
00:34:30.940 --> 00:34:33.500
It's a step by small little steps each day. And
752
00:34:33.539 --> 00:34:35.480
part of it is just trying things, seeing what you
753
00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:36.300
like to do, right?
754
00:34:36.739 --> 00:34:38.539
Yeah, no, I totally agree with that. And I want
755
00:34:38.579 --> 00:34:40.739
to dive into that a little bit because I think
756
00:34:40.780 --> 00:34:45.030
that lots of people listening to this will go, okay, great.
757
00:34:45.090 --> 00:34:47.349
I want to follow my dreams. I've got not a
758
00:34:47.389 --> 00:34:49.610
fucking clue what my dream is. I've always been that
759
00:34:49.630 --> 00:34:51.469
type of person. I've never once known what I want
760
00:34:51.489 --> 00:34:53.269
to do with my life. I've never had a career
761
00:34:53.309 --> 00:34:55.449
I wanted to follow. I've never had a subject I
762
00:34:55.469 --> 00:34:58.510
particularly wanted to do. I've never had like a Any
763
00:34:58.610 --> 00:35:01.719
inkling around like what my life looks like. And I
764
00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:04.800
think that that can be paralyzing at points. Like I
765
00:35:04.820 --> 00:35:08.519
think that that can keep you stuck. So how does
766
00:35:08.559 --> 00:35:11.159
someone listening to this who has no idea what their
767
00:35:11.199 --> 00:35:14.840
dream is even find that out and start setting on
768
00:35:14.860 --> 00:35:15.559
that right path?
769
00:35:15.760 --> 00:35:19.500
Yeah, it's an important question because I ask people what
770
00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:21.480
their dream is. And if you don't know the answer,
771
00:35:21.880 --> 00:35:23.809
my eight year old doesn't know the answer. I ask
772
00:35:23.849 --> 00:35:24.329
him every week.
773
00:35:24.570 --> 00:35:26.829
The 29-year-old person sitting across from you doesn't know.
774
00:35:26.849 --> 00:35:28.659
Yeah, that's what I mean. And do you know what?
775
00:35:28.679 --> 00:35:30.900
There's nothing wrong with not knowing. But I think there
776
00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:33.300
is something wrong with not asking the question. Because in
777
00:35:33.320 --> 00:35:34.920
the school system, and one of the reasons I'm really
778
00:35:34.960 --> 00:35:37.159
upset with the school system, the first question they ask you,
779
00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:39.219
my son was four when they asked him this question.
780
00:35:39.599 --> 00:35:41.360
They asked him, what will you do when you grow up?
781
00:35:42.179 --> 00:35:44.500
I think that's very trapping. He looked at me at
782
00:35:44.519 --> 00:35:46.960
four years old. The teacher was asking him. Suddenly he
783
00:35:47.000 --> 00:35:50.030
has to make me happy. A doctor. A lawyer.
784
00:35:50.050 --> 00:35:50.190
Yeah.
785
00:35:51.260 --> 00:35:53.940
What's going to make the teacher happy, the parent happy?
786
00:35:54.340 --> 00:35:56.539
Their brain is getting trapped into like a thing that's
787
00:35:56.559 --> 00:35:58.400
going to make us happy, not what's going to make
788
00:35:58.579 --> 00:36:01.449
them happy. It's the wrong question. I think the question
789
00:36:01.489 --> 00:36:03.230
we should be asking ourselves when we're young is what
790
00:36:03.269 --> 00:36:05.030
problem we'd like to solve. If we ask ourselves what
791
00:36:05.070 --> 00:36:07.469
problem we'd like to solve, the brain opens up a bit.
792
00:36:08.010 --> 00:36:09.849
And so it's opening up the brain is partly why
793
00:36:09.869 --> 00:36:11.590
I ask people what their dream is. Most people don't
794
00:36:11.639 --> 00:36:14.340
know what the answer is unless they're Americans. Everybody in
795
00:36:14.360 --> 00:36:15.159
America needs the answer.
796
00:36:15.699 --> 00:36:15.940
I know.
797
00:36:15.960 --> 00:36:16.780
What do they put in the water?
798
00:36:16.880 --> 00:36:17.219
I don't know.
799
00:36:17.619 --> 00:36:20.179
But everybody in America has a dream. Every single person.
800
00:36:20.239 --> 00:36:22.780
You know why? Because we wake up into the world
801
00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:25.380
of America. And the first thing is the American dream.
802
00:36:25.420 --> 00:36:28.800
What's yours? And it's so America, in fairness, for all
803
00:36:28.860 --> 00:36:32.340
its flaws, is one of the most forward thinking entrepreneurial
804
00:36:32.360 --> 00:36:36.920
places in the world. And, you know, we as British people,
805
00:36:37.300 --> 00:36:39.809
I think we do admire America. But we don't get
806
00:36:39.889 --> 00:36:42.690
asked that question in Britain. We are literally, what job
807
00:36:42.710 --> 00:36:44.409
will you do when you grow up? We're not asking
808
00:36:44.429 --> 00:36:46.369
what your dream is. I think I've begun to change
809
00:36:46.389 --> 00:36:48.590
the narrative in this country because I think people are asking,
810
00:36:48.610 --> 00:36:50.800
oh God, I might bump into Simon Squibb. I wonder
811
00:36:50.820 --> 00:36:51.480
what my dream is.
812
00:36:51.500 --> 00:36:53.019
I hope Simon Squibb doesn't stop me.
813
00:36:53.019 --> 00:36:56.099
Yeah, exactly. And the thing is, the irony is that,
814
00:36:56.219 --> 00:36:57.880
you know, just asking the question is a good first
815
00:36:57.920 --> 00:37:00.039
step and there's nothing wrong. It could be your whole life.
816
00:37:00.059 --> 00:37:01.719
You spend your whole life discovering it. And what I
817
00:37:01.760 --> 00:37:04.909
see is categories. The first category is people that absolutely
818
00:37:04.949 --> 00:37:06.309
know what they want. And there are a lot of
819
00:37:06.329 --> 00:37:08.199
your listeners that will know that. They know what they're
820
00:37:08.230 --> 00:37:09.989
meant to do. They know what they're good at. And
821
00:37:10.010 --> 00:37:11.389
they know that they could go out there in the
822
00:37:11.429 --> 00:37:13.150
world and do good with that thing they're good at.
823
00:37:13.469 --> 00:37:15.250
But they're not doing it. And I think that's because
824
00:37:15.269 --> 00:37:18.210
they want to do it and make it a need.
825
00:37:18.550 --> 00:37:21.090
Those people. The second category is people that have an inkling.
826
00:37:21.969 --> 00:37:23.389
But most of the time those people are caught in
827
00:37:23.429 --> 00:37:27.039
fight or flight. They're so busy with their life. And
828
00:37:27.260 --> 00:37:30.039
what they've been told to do. Rent an expensive flat
829
00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:33.079
in London. Get a fancy car. They got trapped in
830
00:37:33.119 --> 00:37:37.090
this materialistic treadmill of... that they don't have time to
831
00:37:37.130 --> 00:37:39.010
activate the creative part of their brain that could give
832
00:37:39.030 --> 00:37:41.809
them a step-by-step guide to make their vague dream in
833
00:37:41.829 --> 00:37:45.070
their head a reality. The third category is people that
834
00:37:45.110 --> 00:37:47.380
just have no idea. And I don't think, I think
835
00:37:47.400 --> 00:37:48.960
you're in the second category, but let's put you in
836
00:37:48.980 --> 00:37:49.559
the third category.
837
00:37:49.579 --> 00:37:50.900
I'll put me in the third category.
838
00:37:51.119 --> 00:37:53.960
Most of the time, your end purpose, you'll connect the
839
00:37:53.980 --> 00:37:56.719
dots bone backwards. But most of the time, you're just
840
00:37:56.739 --> 00:37:58.969
solving a pain point for yourself that you have in life.
841
00:37:59.010 --> 00:38:02.150
So in other words, your purpose is in your pain, right?
842
00:38:02.469 --> 00:38:04.840
My purpose is in my pain. The 15-year-old me that
843
00:38:04.900 --> 00:38:06.320
asked for help and the only way I could get
844
00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:08.179
help is with money. And I didn't have money and
845
00:38:08.199 --> 00:38:10.800
I desperately needed help. I'm never letting that happen again
846
00:38:10.840 --> 00:38:13.969
to another 15-year-old. Second thing is, no one told me
847
00:38:13.989 --> 00:38:16.929
about entrepreneurship at school. Like, this is painful for me.
848
00:38:17.090 --> 00:38:19.050
Why did I have to spend five, six, seven years
849
00:38:19.489 --> 00:38:21.969
failing at it when I could have been taught 13
850
00:38:21.969 --> 00:38:24.309
years prior in school about it a little bit. How
851
00:38:24.349 --> 00:38:26.679
to sell. How to communicate. I could be an introvert
852
00:38:26.699 --> 00:38:28.639
or an extrovert. You can sell, right?
853
00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:29.039
Money.
854
00:38:29.119 --> 00:38:33.699
How money works. No one told me. So, my pain...
855
00:38:34.019 --> 00:38:36.800
has led me to, at 52 years old, to go
856
00:38:36.860 --> 00:38:40.820
on TikTok and not dance. You know what I mean?
857
00:38:41.019 --> 00:38:41.760
It's led me.
858
00:38:41.679 --> 00:38:42.219
To do things.
859
00:38:42.239 --> 00:38:44.300
Terrible, so should get back on the dance. Yeah, I
860
00:38:44.320 --> 00:38:46.929
probably should. But back to your point, it's been painful.
861
00:38:47.170 --> 00:38:49.170
I was very embarrassed going on TikTok at the beginning.
862
00:38:49.690 --> 00:38:51.550
And all of my peers, I'm part of a group
863
00:38:51.590 --> 00:38:53.630
of people that have all sold their company. Everyone's like,
864
00:38:53.670 --> 00:38:55.510
what are you doing? Oh, I'm buying real estate and
865
00:38:55.550 --> 00:38:57.889
renting it out. I'm buying buildings and converting them into this.
866
00:38:58.349 --> 00:39:01.840
What are you doing, Simon? I'm on TikTok talking about business.
867
00:39:01.880 --> 00:39:02.360
They're like, what?
868
00:39:02.980 --> 00:39:06.380
I was so embarrassed for so long doing it, but
869
00:39:06.420 --> 00:39:07.860
I knew it was how I was going to reach
870
00:39:08.360 --> 00:39:10.960
young people in particular. When school wouldn't let me go
871
00:39:11.019 --> 00:39:12.940
in and teach entrepreneurship, I'll go to where the kids
872
00:39:12.960 --> 00:39:15.980
are learning naturally on YouTube, on TikTok. Like it or not,
873
00:39:16.039 --> 00:39:18.239
I think social media is one of the most exciting
874
00:39:18.280 --> 00:39:21.230
opportunities for young people today to build a life they want.
875
00:39:21.789 --> 00:39:25.050
Everyone's so down on social media. I think it's liberating.
876
00:39:25.590 --> 00:39:27.590
I think it's one of the most amazing tools, along
877
00:39:27.610 --> 00:39:30.510
with AI and your phone and Wi-Fi, you can literally
878
00:39:30.590 --> 00:39:33.480
sit here right now after this podcast and you can
879
00:39:33.519 --> 00:39:36.460
start something. You can do one video that could go viral.
880
00:39:36.480 --> 00:39:38.380
I'm not saying it will. It could. It's not about
881
00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:39.980
how many followers you've got. It's about how good the
882
00:39:40.019 --> 00:39:41.800
hook is, how good the video is. You could get
883
00:39:41.840 --> 00:39:44.579
millions of views on a product ID you've got now, today,
884
00:39:44.940 --> 00:39:47.079
in this moment. Like there's never been a time in
885
00:39:47.099 --> 00:39:49.219
history like it. And then you can get AI to
886
00:39:49.260 --> 00:39:51.300
help you organize everything in the back office. You don't
887
00:39:51.320 --> 00:39:53.320
need to hire a CFO anymore. I used to have
888
00:39:53.340 --> 00:39:54.840
to hire a CFO when I started a business. I
889
00:39:54.880 --> 00:39:56.780
used to have to get a proper manager of the
890
00:39:56.800 --> 00:39:58.599
business in. No, not anymore. You don't need those things.
891
00:39:59.199 --> 00:40:02.440
Like it's so liberating if people realize it. Everyone's too
892
00:40:02.480 --> 00:40:04.719
focused on the negative. Social media is addictive.
893
00:40:04.800 --> 00:40:04.989
Yep.
894
00:40:05.219 --> 00:40:06.869
Get control of addiction. Food's addictive.
895
00:40:06.929 --> 00:40:07.110
Yep.
896
00:40:07.230 --> 00:40:09.570
Get control of addiction. Be careful you don't get addicted
897
00:40:09.590 --> 00:40:12.840
to things. People, oh, it's, you know, it's cost of living. Yes,
898
00:40:12.880 --> 00:40:14.880
it's expensive. So you have to fight, don't you? You
899
00:40:14.900 --> 00:40:17.539
don't just want it, you need it. So yeah, go
900
00:40:17.579 --> 00:40:19.280
out there and make the world a better place. You
901
00:40:19.300 --> 00:40:20.860
know what I mean? Like people need to take control.
902
00:40:20.880 --> 00:40:24.079
Instead of all the problems, they realise that you've got
903
00:40:24.460 --> 00:40:26.440
social media at your fingertips. You can reach millions of
904
00:40:26.460 --> 00:40:28.840
people today. You've got AI to help you build a business.
905
00:40:28.860 --> 00:40:31.289
You've got knowledge from you and me and other people
906
00:40:31.309 --> 00:40:34.730
that we never had so much free, good knowledge available
907
00:40:34.989 --> 00:40:37.170
to go out there and follow your dreams. At least
908
00:40:37.289 --> 00:40:39.010
ask yourself the question, what is your dream? Even if
909
00:40:39.030 --> 00:40:42.429
you don't action it today, just asking it might wake
910
00:40:42.489 --> 00:40:44.550
up that entrepreneurial muscle in your brain and give you
911
00:40:44.570 --> 00:40:46.070
that bit between the teeth to go and do it
912
00:40:46.530 --> 00:40:49.070
or not, but it's worth trying. Give yourself pain is
913
00:40:49.090 --> 00:40:51.809
probably my end conclusion. I went and traveled the world
914
00:40:52.130 --> 00:40:55.019
and I saw things that were a problem. I've got friends,
915
00:40:55.039 --> 00:40:57.940
for example, who built businesses. They went to Thailand, they
916
00:40:57.980 --> 00:41:00.639
saw plastic in the water. They're like, that's not right.
917
00:41:01.000 --> 00:41:02.579
And they go away and they build a business where
918
00:41:02.639 --> 00:41:05.619
water's sold without it being in plastic can of water. Josh,
919
00:41:05.679 --> 00:41:08.409
my friend there. So what I'm saying is like, You
920
00:41:08.429 --> 00:41:10.550
go see pain in the world and you come back
921
00:41:10.650 --> 00:41:12.840
and you're annoyed at that pain and you fix it.
922
00:41:13.210 --> 00:41:15.690
So anyone listening that doesn't have pain probably means they
923
00:41:15.710 --> 00:41:17.829
don't have a dream. They should go give themselves some pain.
924
00:41:18.110 --> 00:41:21.510
I really like the idea that you, when you're not
925
00:41:21.570 --> 00:41:24.710
happy in your life, a lot of people automatically think
926
00:41:24.769 --> 00:41:28.070
it's because their life is too hard. And I do
927
00:41:28.110 --> 00:41:30.530
not take that away from people. 100% lots of people
928
00:41:30.550 --> 00:41:32.889
will be in that situation. I think a lot of
929
00:41:32.929 --> 00:41:37.949
the time now, modern life, reduced friction, massive convenience. I
930
00:41:37.969 --> 00:41:39.670
think a lot of people aren't happy because their life
931
00:41:39.750 --> 00:41:41.489
is too easy and a lot of the things that
932
00:41:41.550 --> 00:41:44.409
actually make them fulfilled day to day or the things
933
00:41:44.429 --> 00:41:46.130
that they need to overcome to get to X, Y,
934
00:41:46.269 --> 00:41:48.889
Z or to make their lunch or to get wherever
935
00:41:48.909 --> 00:41:51.429
or whatever is taking away the actual process, which is
936
00:41:51.449 --> 00:41:54.880
taking away the whole journey. And it's not good for
937
00:41:54.940 --> 00:41:57.889
our heads. Like it is not good for our mental
938
00:41:57.929 --> 00:42:00.389
health to have that lack of friction. And I love
939
00:42:00.510 --> 00:42:03.869
that you put that spin on your positioning of kind
940
00:42:03.889 --> 00:42:06.329
of like maybe you're too comfortable. If you put yourself
941
00:42:06.349 --> 00:42:08.630
in a position where you have need, you will do
942
00:42:08.690 --> 00:42:09.289
amazing things.
943
00:42:09.309 --> 00:42:09.710
Yeah.
944
00:42:12.460 --> 00:42:15.159
This is David and John from the David McWilliams podcast
945
00:42:15.519 --> 00:42:18.079
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That's a win-win-win. You get the gist.
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Visit zurich.ie or talk to a financial broker because when
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ACAST recommends.
974
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Hi.
975
00:43:32.289 --> 00:43:34.449
I'm Ryan Tuberty, and for those who don't know, I
976
00:43:34.510 --> 00:43:37.309
love books and I love a great story. And on
977
00:43:37.329 --> 00:43:39.929
my podcast, The Bookshelf with Ryan Tuberty, I sit down
978
00:43:39.989 --> 00:43:42.400
with fascinating people and we talk about the books that
979
00:43:42.440 --> 00:43:45.039
have shaped their lives and the stories behind them. We
980
00:43:45.079 --> 00:43:47.119
talk about the book they loved as a child, the
981
00:43:47.139 --> 00:43:49.619
book that brings them joy, and the book that changed
982
00:43:49.780 --> 00:43:50.239
their life.
983
00:43:50.599 --> 00:43:51.900
Over the seasons, I've chatted.
984
00:43:51.659 --> 00:43:55.119
To world leaders, cultural icons, sports stars, and some of
985
00:43:55.159 --> 00:43:58.199
my favorite authors. Well, season five is now available, so
986
00:43:58.260 --> 00:44:00.230
if you love books, if you love stories, and you
987
00:44:00.250 --> 00:44:02.869
love great conversations, come and join me on the bookshelf
988
00:44:03.110 --> 00:44:05.869
every Tuesday. Watch on YouTube or indeed listen wherever you
989
00:44:05.889 --> 00:44:06.570
get your podcasts.
990
00:44:07.170 --> 00:44:11.130
Acast is home to the world's best podcasts, including Red Room,
991
00:44:11.650 --> 00:44:14.340
Catch Up with Louise McSharry, and the one you're listening
992
00:44:14.360 --> 00:44:22.219
to right now. And what about someone who's listening and
993
00:44:22.260 --> 00:44:26.400
they are in, let's say one example, they are in
994
00:44:27.239 --> 00:44:29.750
the corporate world. They know they don't want to be there.
995
00:44:30.030 --> 00:44:32.469
They know they want to do something else at some point,
996
00:44:33.110 --> 00:44:35.929
but they genuinely do not know how to get off
997
00:44:35.969 --> 00:44:38.539
that treadmill in a way that I'm not sure I
998
00:44:38.579 --> 00:44:42.619
would either in terms of security of salary, in terms
999
00:44:42.679 --> 00:44:44.980
of a mortgage they're paying or the rent they're paying
1000
00:44:45.019 --> 00:44:47.500
or the kids they're looking after, whatever it might be.
1001
00:44:48.380 --> 00:44:52.489
How do they start to formulate a plan or start
1002
00:44:52.510 --> 00:44:55.489
to formulate some movement that helps them start to follow
1003
00:44:55.510 --> 00:44:55.829
their dream?
1004
00:44:56.250 --> 00:45:00.070
So I spent two years writing a book answering this question.
1005
00:45:00.550 --> 00:45:01.860
So I wrote a book called What's Your Dream? And
1006
00:45:01.880 --> 00:45:04.699
I put in there a step-by-step guide for exactly this
1007
00:45:04.739 --> 00:45:08.059
demographic of people. And in a nutshell, so you don't
1008
00:45:08.079 --> 00:45:10.320
need to buy the book, is... Buy the book, guys.
1009
00:45:10.340 --> 00:45:14.070
Buy the book, link down below. But the basic crux
1010
00:45:14.130 --> 00:45:17.150
of it is a combination of things. First of all,
1011
00:45:17.670 --> 00:45:20.389
you need to build a bit of a boat for yourself,
1012
00:45:20.449 --> 00:45:24.469
like six months, maybe even a year of savings. Get
1013
00:45:24.510 --> 00:45:27.219
your costs down. Because these things, even if you don't
1014
00:45:27.360 --> 00:45:30.170
make the leap, just less pressure... to have to have
1015
00:45:30.230 --> 00:45:32.849
the job, the better. You don't ever want to be
1016
00:45:32.969 --> 00:45:34.750
forced into having the job. So when people get big
1017
00:45:34.789 --> 00:45:37.380
mortgages and they get big car loans and they get
1018
00:45:37.489 --> 00:45:39.400
big credit card debt, what they're really doing is they're
1019
00:45:39.420 --> 00:45:42.639
now working for those organizations, right? On top of the job,
1020
00:45:42.800 --> 00:45:45.599
they're working in the job to then pay those organizations.
1021
00:45:45.980 --> 00:45:47.780
So just get your costs down. In general, I think
1022
00:45:47.800 --> 00:45:49.780
this is a good bit of advice, but then it
1023
00:45:49.800 --> 00:45:51.659
will allow you to come out of fight or flight
1024
00:45:51.940 --> 00:45:53.280
because a lot of people are in fight or flight.
1025
00:45:53.300 --> 00:45:55.380
You've got big bills to pay. You need this job.
1026
00:45:55.400 --> 00:45:58.639
There's no questioning it because you need it. Second step,
1027
00:45:59.039 --> 00:46:02.500
I think the thing that I've seen work for most
1028
00:46:02.559 --> 00:46:07.719
people is imagine you're 92 years old and you didn't
1029
00:46:08.039 --> 00:46:10.230
try it. You didn't do it. You won't be able
1030
00:46:10.250 --> 00:46:12.780
to go back to that 40-year-old you. It's too late.
1031
00:46:13.400 --> 00:46:16.719
You're 92, wondering what could have been. You never want
1032
00:46:16.739 --> 00:46:20.360
to live a regret. You can live later in life
1033
00:46:20.619 --> 00:46:23.590
quite poor. I've just seen New Zealand, amazing facilities out there.
1034
00:46:23.630 --> 00:46:25.590
If you're older and you're poor, you still have a
1035
00:46:25.610 --> 00:46:28.409
pretty nice life. I was just there. So there are
1036
00:46:28.449 --> 00:46:30.829
ways to live without lots of money in life. You've
1037
00:46:30.849 --> 00:46:32.670
got people around you that love you and all these things.
1038
00:46:33.030 --> 00:46:36.260
The point I'm making is you can't live with regret, though.
1039
00:46:37.170 --> 00:46:39.789
Like everything I've ever done, every idea I've ever had,
1040
00:46:39.889 --> 00:46:41.789
I've done. I'm never going to sit there at 92
1041
00:46:41.789 --> 00:46:44.469
and say, I wonder if I'd done that, what would
1042
00:46:44.489 --> 00:46:46.780
have happened? Well, I'm about to launch a drinks brand.
1043
00:46:46.800 --> 00:46:49.639
I'm pretty scared. But I know I can help millions
1044
00:46:49.659 --> 00:46:51.619
of people if it works. And I don't want to
1045
00:46:51.659 --> 00:46:53.900
live with regret that I didn't try. Now, it might fail.
1046
00:46:54.039 --> 00:46:56.260
And this Simon Squibb guru guy is going to be
1047
00:46:56.280 --> 00:46:58.260
on the front page of the newspaper as a complete failure.
1048
00:46:58.320 --> 00:47:00.610
And that does worry me. But I'm also OK with
1049
00:47:00.650 --> 00:47:02.550
it because I don't want to live with regret. Even
1050
00:47:02.590 --> 00:47:04.590
if it's a failure, at least I have a good story.
1051
00:47:05.150 --> 00:47:07.789
And I won't be at 92 wondering, what if? So
1052
00:47:07.849 --> 00:47:10.769
anyone listening, don't be that 92 year old with regret.
1053
00:47:11.230 --> 00:47:13.769
Forward now in your mind, imagine, close your eyes, imagine
1054
00:47:13.789 --> 00:47:15.829
you're 92, you had an idea and you didn't do it.
1055
00:47:16.230 --> 00:47:18.449
Or you wonder what it was like to work as
1056
00:47:18.469 --> 00:47:21.309
an entrepreneur. Try it for a year. You can go
1057
00:47:21.389 --> 00:47:23.349
back to the job. The good thing about people that
1058
00:47:23.369 --> 00:47:25.230
are listening now who have that job you're talking about,
1059
00:47:25.809 --> 00:47:28.130
they're probably okay to get the job again. Now it's
1060
00:47:28.289 --> 00:47:31.550
people with no experience like these university grads. I'm worried
1061
00:47:31.590 --> 00:47:33.769
about them because they don't have experience and they don't
1062
00:47:33.789 --> 00:47:36.000
know how to start a business. But frankly, if you've
1063
00:47:36.059 --> 00:47:38.119
got an OK job right now, you can take a
1064
00:47:38.159 --> 00:47:43.019
year out and try it. This crazy entrepreneurship thing, walking
1065
00:47:43.059 --> 00:47:45.599
dogs for a year. Worst is you do 20,000 steps
1066
00:47:45.659 --> 00:47:47.079
a day, you get a little bit more into shape
1067
00:47:47.099 --> 00:47:47.920
and then you get the job again.
1068
00:47:48.900 --> 00:47:50.820
My resting heart rate has never been better than when
1069
00:47:50.840 --> 00:47:51.539
I was doing 20,000 steps.
1070
00:47:51.579 --> 00:47:53.659
That's what I mean. Exactly.
1071
00:47:53.679 --> 00:47:53.780
Yeah.
1072
00:47:53.820 --> 00:47:55.510
And apparently the meaning of life is getting your resting
1073
00:47:55.550 --> 00:47:56.110
heart rate down.
1074
00:47:56.130 --> 00:47:57.210
Exactly. I've heard that too.
1075
00:47:57.250 --> 00:47:58.630
So that kind of makes sense to me.
1076
00:47:58.789 --> 00:47:59.030
Right.
1077
00:47:59.190 --> 00:48:02.280
And so, you know, yeah. But I just think regret
1078
00:48:02.360 --> 00:48:04.659
is such a big thing and people don't think about
1079
00:48:04.679 --> 00:48:07.840
it enough. And people are planning their retirement and they're
1080
00:48:07.860 --> 00:48:10.449
getting their pensions, but they're not thinking about their state
1081
00:48:10.489 --> 00:48:13.530
of mind at that age. And I personally want to
1082
00:48:13.550 --> 00:48:15.769
have tried everything I've ever thought of. Now, that does
1083
00:48:15.849 --> 00:48:18.769
sometimes mean that I'm trying crazy things and I'll probably
1084
00:48:18.849 --> 00:48:21.800
fail many, many more times. So what?
1085
00:48:22.039 --> 00:48:26.039
But I think that is exactly the mindset that... keeps
1086
00:48:26.159 --> 00:48:29.019
you going and keeps you being at this position because
1087
00:48:29.039 --> 00:48:32.719
I think that so many people see this view and
1088
00:48:32.760 --> 00:48:37.139
I've absolutely come from this position originally is seeing success
1089
00:48:37.789 --> 00:48:39.969
as we talked about like as an end goal and
1090
00:48:40.030 --> 00:48:42.550
so it's something that you get to and I think
1091
00:48:42.610 --> 00:48:46.690
so many people will have seen you for example when
1092
00:48:46.750 --> 00:48:49.429
you sold the first company you sold for a hell
1093
00:48:49.469 --> 00:48:52.760
of a lot of money being at that point and
1094
00:48:52.820 --> 00:48:57.000
being successful however there's nothing to say that your life
1095
00:48:57.019 --> 00:49:00.219
would have continued to be enjoyable. Like, yes, it would
1096
00:49:00.239 --> 00:49:03.139
have continued to be frictionless, and probably pretty fucking easy.
1097
00:49:03.400 --> 00:49:06.469
And probably, you know, you wouldn't have to worry about
1098
00:49:06.510 --> 00:49:08.869
a lot of the things that lots of people worry about.
1099
00:49:09.409 --> 00:49:13.550
But maybe it's exactly that mindset that put you into
1100
00:49:13.610 --> 00:49:16.349
entrepreneurship in the first place, that is exactly why you
1101
00:49:16.389 --> 00:49:18.769
are still doing this now. And the reason I say
1102
00:49:18.789 --> 00:49:20.909
that is because I always like one of my favorite
1103
00:49:20.929 --> 00:49:26.429
traits about myself is I am clearly continuously happy to
1104
00:49:26.510 --> 00:49:29.780
put myself out on a limb and do something that
1105
00:49:29.900 --> 00:49:34.110
might maybe even work. wreck my career to a certain
1106
00:49:34.159 --> 00:49:37.300
extent over and over like every single year since the
1107
00:49:37.380 --> 00:49:40.000
start of my career I have started some sort of
1108
00:49:40.039 --> 00:49:43.719
new venture or you know backed something or whatever it
1109
00:49:43.739 --> 00:49:45.760
might be not all of them have worked out like
1110
00:49:46.079 --> 00:49:49.300
whether this is new products within the companies themselves whether
1111
00:49:49.340 --> 00:49:52.400
this is a new venture partnering with someone else whether
1112
00:49:52.440 --> 00:49:53.980
this is and I'm very aware that all of these
1113
00:49:54.000 --> 00:49:55.900
things are very specific to me as areas that I
1114
00:49:55.960 --> 00:50:00.019
could go into but I think that Had I 10, 9,
1115
00:50:00.019 --> 00:50:02.530
8 years ago in the first few years of starting
1116
00:50:02.550 --> 00:50:06.699
my businesses, had I been so happy with that kind
1117
00:50:06.780 --> 00:50:10.440
of the what that had achieved that I'd just been like, great, okay, cool,
1118
00:50:11.119 --> 00:50:14.219
must continue down this trajectory. I wouldn't have half the
1119
00:50:14.260 --> 00:50:18.869
joy I have now, which I think comes from genuinely
1120
00:50:18.909 --> 00:50:21.550
being happy to fail in public over and over and
1121
00:50:21.650 --> 00:50:24.349
over again. Because sometimes I look at it 100%.
1122
00:50:24.349 --> 00:50:25.809
How can we give that to people, isn't it? How
1123
00:50:25.829 --> 00:50:27.409
do we bottle that up? Yeah.
1124
00:50:27.710 --> 00:50:29.750
I mean, I think first, one of the main things
1125
00:50:29.889 --> 00:50:32.369
is talking about it and showing it. Like when I
1126
00:50:32.409 --> 00:50:34.829
first launched this podcast, it was the lowest engagement I
1127
00:50:34.849 --> 00:50:38.389
would get on any content ever, every fucking week, like
1128
00:50:38.650 --> 00:50:40.429
over and over and over. I'd be posting it and
1129
00:50:40.449 --> 00:50:42.250
I'd be like, God, this is so embarrassing. But I
1130
00:50:42.349 --> 00:50:43.849
knew I wanted to do it. And I knew that
1131
00:50:43.889 --> 00:50:46.170
it made a difference to me. And I knew that
1132
00:50:46.210 --> 00:50:47.969
it made a difference to people who wanted to start
1133
00:50:47.989 --> 00:50:51.289
their businesses and wanted to improve their lives. And so
1134
00:50:51.530 --> 00:50:54.409
like it genuinely took about two years for it to
1135
00:50:54.849 --> 00:50:58.449
start being not embarrassing like I don't even mean like
1136
00:50:58.469 --> 00:51:02.449
trajectory like this I mean not embarrassing and same with
1137
00:51:02.510 --> 00:51:04.230
so many other things where it's kind of just like
1138
00:51:04.829 --> 00:51:07.289
okay I could do this it could fail and by
1139
00:51:07.309 --> 00:51:09.829
the way my entire personal brand is linked to having
1140
00:51:09.889 --> 00:51:14.019
successful businesses so probably shouldn't be launching things that might fail.
1141
00:51:14.360 --> 00:51:16.440
And yet every single year, I don't know what it is,
1142
00:51:16.539 --> 00:51:19.360
but there is something inside me that clearly still wants
1143
00:51:19.420 --> 00:51:21.989
to go out on a limb and try and do
1144
00:51:22.010 --> 00:51:25.670
the things. I think the mindset is, okay, that might
1145
00:51:25.710 --> 00:51:27.449
fail and that might be shit and that might really
1146
00:51:27.489 --> 00:51:29.869
affect my personal brand because people would look at me
1147
00:51:29.889 --> 00:51:31.510
and be like, oh, well, that business of hers did
1148
00:51:31.570 --> 00:51:34.010
fail and she's meant to be this kind of business person.
1149
00:51:35.239 --> 00:51:38.590
But it also could be your next massive thing. that
1150
00:51:38.800 --> 00:51:41.150
not only brings you success, but also brings you that
1151
00:51:41.349 --> 00:51:44.429
joy of genuinely still feeling alive because you're still taking
1152
00:51:44.469 --> 00:51:46.730
those risks. And I see so, like, I see so
1153
00:51:46.789 --> 00:51:48.889
much of that in you. The fact that you were
1154
00:51:48.909 --> 00:51:50.690
at a point where you never needed to work again
1155
00:51:51.710 --> 00:51:54.920
and have continuously just been like, great, well, how can
1156
00:51:54.980 --> 00:51:58.360
I still put risk into my life? I feel like
1157
00:51:58.400 --> 00:52:00.039
that's probably where so much of the joy comes from.
1158
00:52:00.059 --> 00:52:00.719
I agree.
1159
00:52:00.739 --> 00:52:02.659
To your point, love the journey. You know, you've got
1160
00:52:02.679 --> 00:52:05.280
to enjoy the process. I really want to give this
1161
00:52:05.320 --> 00:52:07.679
to people, though. If people take something from this podcast,
1162
00:52:07.699 --> 00:52:09.380
it would be what you're talking about here. And I
1163
00:52:10.079 --> 00:52:14.619
wonder if people understood. My wife does kinesiology. It's kind
1164
00:52:14.639 --> 00:52:16.980
of an amazing thing. I never really understood it. But
1165
00:52:17.000 --> 00:52:19.460
it basically helps you understand what the body is telling
1166
00:52:19.500 --> 00:52:21.630
you as opposed to what your mind is telling you.
1167
00:52:21.639 --> 00:52:23.320
It's almost like what your heart says as opposed to
1168
00:52:23.340 --> 00:52:26.550
what your mind says. And in the subconscious, in our
1169
00:52:26.730 --> 00:52:29.400
early years, a lot of stuff gets pre-programmed into us.
1170
00:52:29.949 --> 00:52:32.289
Our subconscious, that's why we don't remember anything often before
1171
00:52:32.309 --> 00:52:34.630
the age of seven, because it's building up our subconscious
1172
00:52:34.650 --> 00:52:37.179
belief systems. And one of the things in the school
1173
00:52:37.219 --> 00:52:40.139
system that starts very early, I homeschool my son because
1174
00:52:40.159 --> 00:52:42.300
of this. I took him out of school. Because in
1175
00:52:42.320 --> 00:52:43.960
the school system, they'll tell you, sit down and do
1176
00:52:43.980 --> 00:52:46.920
an exam on your own. And if you get an A,
1177
00:52:47.519 --> 00:52:49.159
you're a success. If you get a D, we've got
1178
00:52:49.179 --> 00:52:52.019
a serious problem. You're a failure. That's a problem. You're
1179
00:52:52.039 --> 00:52:54.139
going to get into serious trouble. Don't get a D.
1180
00:52:55.139 --> 00:52:57.980
And so in our subconscious system, No one ever wants
1181
00:52:58.000 --> 00:53:00.400
to get a D anymore. And so this is why
1182
00:53:00.440 --> 00:53:02.280
I think this is a stat that I saw in
1183
00:53:02.300 --> 00:53:05.539
someone else's books. I don't know if it's true, but
1184
00:53:05.539 --> 00:53:09.300
80% of A students work for D students. And I
1185
00:53:09.619 --> 00:53:12.199
think it's probably true because I think about all the
1186
00:53:12.260 --> 00:53:15.670
talented people that are working for someone else. It's just crazy.
1187
00:53:16.230 --> 00:53:19.230
And it's because they don't want to fail. And two
1188
00:53:19.269 --> 00:53:21.750
things about that really upset me. One is I've never
1189
00:53:21.789 --> 00:53:24.010
built anything on my own without help. If you sit
1190
00:53:24.030 --> 00:53:25.610
me down and get me to do an exam, I'm
1191
00:53:25.630 --> 00:53:27.949
definitely getting a D. But if you get all 48
1192
00:53:27.949 --> 00:53:29.869
people in my company together and we'd work something, we'll
1193
00:53:29.889 --> 00:53:32.099
all get, we're definitely getting an A. Because we win
1194
00:53:32.139 --> 00:53:34.739
in teams. That's not taught in school when we think
1195
00:53:34.760 --> 00:53:36.320
we have to do it alone. You can't do it alone.
1196
00:53:36.639 --> 00:53:38.260
You need to work in teams. The second thing is
1197
00:53:38.539 --> 00:53:40.099
a D is not failure. A D is a lesson.
1198
00:53:40.519 --> 00:53:43.949
I got so many Ds that I got comfortable with
1199
00:53:44.010 --> 00:53:46.869
people calling me an idiot. Because I knew I wasn't,
1200
00:53:47.590 --> 00:53:50.590
but fine. It's like, you can't take anything from me
1201
00:53:50.630 --> 00:53:53.000
when I'm already have nothing. You see what I mean? Like,
1202
00:53:53.239 --> 00:53:56.679
I think people that get Ds actually accept failure as like, okay, good. Now,
1203
00:53:56.760 --> 00:53:59.300
I think a lot of people listening are probably A students.
1204
00:54:00.159 --> 00:54:01.480
And they need to have a bit of failure in
1205
00:54:01.500 --> 00:54:02.699
their life to get good at something.
1206
00:54:03.300 --> 00:54:06.429
I had, I literally went back to my old school for,
1207
00:54:06.510 --> 00:54:10.050
I did the like birthday assembly this year. And my one,
1208
00:54:10.349 --> 00:54:12.750
like the one takeaway I wanted for people to have,
1209
00:54:12.909 --> 00:54:15.570
because a lot of it I knew, like I know
1210
00:54:15.590 --> 00:54:17.989
the mentality of people in that school. It's very, it
1211
00:54:18.030 --> 00:54:20.829
was very academic. It was very focused on, as you say,
1212
00:54:20.889 --> 00:54:23.750
like the A above everything. And I only joined that
1213
00:54:23.809 --> 00:54:26.630
school for two years. And I came from a completely
1214
00:54:26.670 --> 00:54:29.329
different type of school where the reason I even changed
1215
00:54:29.369 --> 00:54:31.070
was because they'd never got the grades that I would
1216
00:54:31.110 --> 00:54:33.900
need before. to get to the university I wanted to
1217
00:54:33.920 --> 00:54:36.079
get to and so I kind of had this completely
1218
00:54:36.099 --> 00:54:39.639
different mindset and I was absolutely gobsmacked by how lots
1219
00:54:39.679 --> 00:54:42.829
of people would not do things at all to avoid
1220
00:54:42.869 --> 00:54:46.030
doing them badly where actually failure had been such a
1221
00:54:46.090 --> 00:54:48.710
key part of everything I'd done up to that date
1222
00:54:48.750 --> 00:54:52.170
like genuinely I think about the fact a lot that
1223
00:54:53.030 --> 00:54:55.239
nothing I have that you would look at me and
1224
00:54:55.280 --> 00:54:58.719
think is prestigious has come on the first try I
1225
00:54:59.159 --> 00:55:01.920
didn't get into Oxford on the first try literally like
1226
00:55:02.019 --> 00:55:05.360
every single thing my second business was like completely took
1227
00:55:05.440 --> 00:55:08.639
off and I was flailing for for a good amount
1228
00:55:08.679 --> 00:55:10.900
of time like yes my first business had had success
1229
00:55:10.940 --> 00:55:13.139
at the beginning but being able to like evolve that
1230
00:55:13.179 --> 00:55:15.639
and work out where that was even going took years
1231
00:55:15.679 --> 00:55:19.480
and years and years like every single thing that like
1232
00:55:19.880 --> 00:55:22.980
I retook A-levels I retook GCSEs like every single thing
1233
00:55:23.000 --> 00:55:25.900
that I thought was worth having I failed at the
1234
00:55:25.940 --> 00:55:29.219
first time and I think that that When you give
1235
00:55:29.239 --> 00:55:32.739
yourself permission to do that, you stop looking at anything
1236
00:55:32.860 --> 00:55:35.059
as a kind of, oh, shit, well, I've got to
1237
00:55:35.079 --> 00:55:36.440
do this and I've got to do this well. Actually,
1238
00:55:36.460 --> 00:55:37.530
I don't know if I'm going to do it well,
1239
00:55:37.550 --> 00:55:39.690
so maybe I won't do it at all. And actually,
1240
00:55:39.710 --> 00:55:42.210
it has to be turned on this head. So when
1241
00:55:42.269 --> 00:55:47.610
I was giving that assembly, my main thing was like,
1242
00:55:47.949 --> 00:55:49.780
I think people always say that fear of failure is
1243
00:55:49.820 --> 00:55:53.820
holding you back. I think that... the most important thing
1244
00:55:53.920 --> 00:55:56.099
is that this fear of failure is actually like stopping
1245
00:55:56.639 --> 00:55:58.639
you from a whole life that you don't know you
1246
00:55:58.679 --> 00:56:03.440
could have. Because I think particularly, again, with the increased convenience,
1247
00:56:03.519 --> 00:56:06.989
increased amount we see people succeed, all of these different things,
1248
00:56:07.389 --> 00:56:12.150
we just are programmed now for convenience and success at
1249
00:56:12.170 --> 00:56:16.800
the earliest opportunity. And it's just not conducive to getting
1250
00:56:16.840 --> 00:56:18.519
to where you want to get to.
1251
00:56:18.539 --> 00:56:22.179
I think people with a anybody listening now that has
1252
00:56:22.219 --> 00:56:25.019
an idea just go try it if it fails so
1253
00:56:25.139 --> 00:56:27.949
what okay make sure financially you're not in a serious
1254
00:56:28.010 --> 00:56:31.389
situation but like i just think failure is it is
1255
00:56:31.449 --> 00:56:34.170
so cheesy but it's just a learning experience that really
1256
00:56:34.309 --> 00:56:36.570
it's like when i build a business to me it's
1257
00:56:36.590 --> 00:56:39.849
like a video game and i'm sometimes i'm figuring out
1258
00:56:39.869 --> 00:56:42.039
along the way so i'm launching this drinks brand i
1259
00:56:42.059 --> 00:56:44.679
went to see the perfect ted people yesterday they're inferior
1260
00:56:44.699 --> 00:56:47.000
than my competition they're sharing all their knowledge how they
1261
00:56:47.039 --> 00:56:48.139
did it they don't want me to make the same
1262
00:56:48.159 --> 00:56:51.340
mistakes You know, like, it's so exciting to, like, not
1263
00:56:51.440 --> 00:56:55.239
know something. Like, I love entrepreneurship because I never know
1264
00:56:55.280 --> 00:56:58.159
it all. There's always one more thing to learn. Like,
1265
00:56:58.239 --> 00:57:01.889
AI right now. Every entrepreneur is pretty excited about AI.
1266
00:57:02.230 --> 00:57:04.210
Everybody working for someone else is pretty scared of AI.
1267
00:57:04.409 --> 00:57:07.150
So what side do you want to sit on? Right?
1268
00:57:07.409 --> 00:57:10.130
If you own the business, AI is a liberator. You
1269
00:57:10.150 --> 00:57:12.010
can grow your company faster. You can do more. If
1270
00:57:12.030 --> 00:57:14.150
you're working for someone, you're like, wow, that could replace me.
1271
00:57:14.809 --> 00:57:17.860
So I think that's why now, like, particularly now, people
1272
00:57:17.880 --> 00:57:20.909
should follow their dreams. more than ever because the job
1273
00:57:20.949 --> 00:57:23.809
isn't safe like we were promised and you don't learn
1274
00:57:23.849 --> 00:57:26.690
as much because often in companies they pigeonhole you into
1275
00:57:26.710 --> 00:57:30.130
a particular thing you become a specialist at something you
1276
00:57:30.170 --> 00:57:31.849
don't learn broadly.
1277
00:57:31.809 --> 00:57:35.340
Even if your job is completely safe that social construct
1278
00:57:35.389 --> 00:57:38.179
that if you worked hard and earned an average salary
1279
00:57:38.219 --> 00:57:41.420
you'd be able to buy an average house or a
1280
00:57:41.480 --> 00:57:44.039
house at all and have two and a half kids and.
1281
00:57:43.960 --> 00:57:46.030
Be able to gone yeah it's not true it.
1282
00:57:46.139 --> 00:57:48.380
Also doesn't exist so it's like yeah you're so right
1283
00:57:48.420 --> 00:57:52.019
it's like the reframing of you've been promised this one
1284
00:57:52.099 --> 00:57:54.880
thing in this job so if you're doing anything else
1285
00:57:54.900 --> 00:57:56.940
you're taking a risk actually now both of those are
1286
00:57:56.960 --> 00:57:59.300
risks so it's like which one are you going to
1287
00:57:59.340 --> 00:58:01.539
do why is it the best thing for you what's
1288
00:58:01.579 --> 00:58:03.340
best suited to you what's going to get you there
1289
00:58:03.380 --> 00:58:06.039
faster all of that and i i think in this
1290
00:58:06.099 --> 00:58:08.989
whole conversation around failure which i think is incredibly important
1291
00:58:09.119 --> 00:58:13.050
it's easier to sit in hindsight and say fear of
1292
00:58:13.090 --> 00:58:15.260
failure is holding you back Failure is one of the
1293
00:58:15.300 --> 00:58:17.019
best things that can happen to you, all of this.
1294
00:58:17.639 --> 00:58:20.320
What about in that moment? So, like, what about someone
1295
00:58:20.340 --> 00:58:24.239
listening to this who has just lost their job or
1296
00:58:24.300 --> 00:58:26.360
they didn't get their dream job that they've been working
1297
00:58:26.429 --> 00:58:29.469
for and believe they are highly qualified for or they
1298
00:58:29.489 --> 00:58:31.670
didn't get into the university they want to or they
1299
00:58:31.710 --> 00:58:35.389
just failed some school exams, like, whatever. That is a
1300
00:58:35.489 --> 00:58:38.809
deep feeling. Like, being in that place and feeling that
1301
00:58:38.869 --> 00:58:42.460
sense of failure, it's a lot... harder than what we
1302
00:58:42.519 --> 00:58:45.880
are feeling x amount of years on or whatever from
1303
00:58:46.179 --> 00:58:51.360
whichever failure so how do you actually in that moment
1304
00:58:52.139 --> 00:58:56.719
feel that failure and utilize it in the right direction
1305
00:58:56.840 --> 00:58:58.139
rather than holding you back.
1306
00:58:58.239 --> 00:59:01.630
It is tough i actually feel emotional when you talk
1307
00:59:01.650 --> 00:59:03.969
about this because i meet these people who you're just
1308
00:59:03.989 --> 00:59:05.929
you just described i meet them in the real world
1309
00:59:05.989 --> 00:59:08.710
right now in the streets and there's a lot of
1310
00:59:08.789 --> 00:59:12.239
desperate people out there that feel totally underconfident. They went
1311
00:59:12.260 --> 00:59:13.980
to university. They did everything they were told to do.
1312
00:59:14.480 --> 00:59:15.940
And no one will give them a job. And they're
1313
00:59:15.960 --> 00:59:21.349
talented people. It is so, so sad. I don't know why,
1314
00:59:21.409 --> 00:59:22.989
but it made me think of a bit of a
1315
00:59:23.050 --> 00:59:24.880
name drop story. I'll drop a name here.
1316
00:59:24.900 --> 00:59:25.119
Go on.
1317
00:59:25.440 --> 00:59:27.920
I'll pick it up. I moved back from Hong Kong.
1318
00:59:28.099 --> 00:59:31.139
When I sold my company Fluid to PricewaterhouseCooper, I moved
1319
00:59:31.159 --> 00:59:32.420
back to England. I was living in Hong Kong at
1320
00:59:32.440 --> 00:59:36.469
the time. And I moved to North London. So I
1321
00:59:36.550 --> 00:59:39.550
bought this house in North London, moved in. And it
1322
00:59:40.889 --> 00:59:42.429
was the first time I owned a home. So it
1323
00:59:42.449 --> 00:59:44.190
was totally my home. I was kind of excited to
1324
00:59:44.230 --> 00:59:46.369
move in. I didn't do much due diligence on the home.
1325
00:59:46.409 --> 00:59:49.289
I didn't know who my neighbors were. I didn't know anything. Anyway,
1326
00:59:49.630 --> 00:59:51.530
my team are laughing because I mention this all the time.
1327
00:59:51.610 --> 00:59:55.070
There's only one celebrity in the whole world that I like, really.
1328
00:59:55.190 --> 00:59:57.309
I say like, there's one I like, as in I'm
1329
00:59:57.329 --> 01:00:00.210
a big fan. There's only one celebrity in the whole
1330
01:00:00.250 --> 01:00:04.809
of the world. And it turned out my neighbor was
1331
01:00:04.849 --> 01:00:09.369
this celebrity, Ricky Gervais. So he was my neighbor. And
1332
01:00:09.510 --> 01:00:11.230
I try not to be a fanboy, but I was
1333
01:00:11.250 --> 01:00:13.110
definitely a fanboy. I saw him every day pretty much
1334
01:00:13.130 --> 01:00:15.349
for the next four years and tried to not ask
1335
01:00:15.369 --> 01:00:17.030
for a photo because we were neighbors. So I was
1336
01:00:17.050 --> 01:00:20.150
trying to play it cool. But the other side of
1337
01:00:20.210 --> 01:00:25.980
me was a guy and his family who had become
1338
01:00:26.019 --> 01:00:30.019
a lawyer. Now, funnily enough, this guy that became a lawyer,
1339
01:00:30.579 --> 01:00:34.550
I actually known him decades before. And when he became
1340
01:00:34.590 --> 01:00:36.409
a lawyer, it was kind of a big thing in
1341
01:00:36.710 --> 01:00:38.690
our social thing that he'd become a lawyer. It was
1342
01:00:38.710 --> 01:00:40.789
a very fancy thing to become a lawyer. I was
1343
01:00:40.849 --> 01:00:44.840
a broke entrepreneur trying to make it. I couldn't get
1344
01:00:44.880 --> 01:00:48.239
a job was the perception of entrepreneurship back then. Entrepreneurship
1345
01:00:48.260 --> 01:00:50.840
was those that couldn't get a job, right? So I
1346
01:00:50.880 --> 01:00:53.280
was an entrepreneur. And Ricky Gervais at that time, who
1347
01:00:53.300 --> 01:00:55.590
I didn't know, was a struggling, trying to be a
1348
01:00:55.670 --> 01:00:58.369
singer guy, right? He was doing radio on the side,
1349
01:00:58.389 --> 01:01:00.570
but he wanted to be a singer. People were laughing
1350
01:01:00.610 --> 01:01:03.510
at him. People were laughing at me. In the time
1351
01:01:03.530 --> 01:01:06.710
that I lived there, every single morning, the person who
1352
01:01:06.750 --> 01:01:08.780
was now, we're now in our 40s, he's getting up
1353
01:01:08.820 --> 01:01:11.059
at six o'clock in the morning. He's going home at midnight.
1354
01:01:11.099 --> 01:01:13.780
He doesn't see his family all day. And he's moaning
1355
01:01:13.820 --> 01:01:15.099
to me he doesn't get to see his family on
1356
01:01:15.119 --> 01:01:17.019
the Sunday afternoon when he's having a nap because he's
1357
01:01:17.059 --> 01:01:20.000
so tired. Whereas me and Ricky Gervais are walking around
1358
01:01:20.039 --> 01:01:23.050
Hampstead Heath. We're having the laugh time of our life.
1359
01:01:23.090 --> 01:01:25.010
The point I'm getting to is like a lot of
1360
01:01:25.030 --> 01:01:27.369
people listening, what they should do if they're in a
1361
01:01:27.389 --> 01:01:29.750
job they don't love or worse, they haven't got this
1362
01:01:29.829 --> 01:01:31.789
job that they thought they wanted. You know what? Go
1363
01:01:31.829 --> 01:01:34.230
interview the people with that job. I meet so many
1364
01:01:34.289 --> 01:01:36.159
people that are studying something and they've never met the
1365
01:01:36.199 --> 01:01:39.000
person who's doing the job that they're talking about. You
1366
01:01:39.019 --> 01:01:40.980
know what you might find? It's lucky you can't get
1367
01:01:41.019 --> 01:01:43.590
that job. It's not me telling you this. I don't
1368
01:01:43.610 --> 01:01:45.309
want to say, oh, go start a business of your own.
1369
01:01:45.630 --> 01:01:48.070
Go interview the very people you think you want to be.
1370
01:01:48.360 --> 01:01:50.579
Because I tell people all the time, only take advice
1371
01:01:50.599 --> 01:01:52.619
from me if you want my life. If you copy
1372
01:01:52.679 --> 01:01:54.380
my advice, you're going to get my life. You're going
1373
01:01:54.400 --> 01:01:57.559
to get, I've been married 25 years. I don't know
1374
01:01:57.579 --> 01:01:59.900
how to chat up women. You won't. Good luck.
1375
01:02:00.659 --> 01:02:01.059
Exactly.
1376
01:02:01.159 --> 01:02:03.719
But my point is like, I'm not, I'm not, you know,
1377
01:02:03.880 --> 01:02:06.380
I have, I have, I work all the time. I
1378
01:02:06.420 --> 01:02:09.440
just love work. I'm not allowed to say it probably legally,
1379
01:02:09.480 --> 01:02:11.340
but the people in my team who I work for
1380
01:02:11.380 --> 01:02:14.670
are my friends. I work with people I actually like.
1381
01:02:15.409 --> 01:02:18.809
I don't have any work-life separation. My son is in
1382
01:02:18.849 --> 01:02:21.219
my content. He's eight years old. He gave me feedback
1383
01:02:21.260 --> 01:02:25.260
on the video we put on YouTube today. Everything is integrated. Now,
1384
01:02:25.420 --> 01:02:27.159
if you want that life, listen to me. If you
1385
01:02:27.280 --> 01:02:30.820
really want work-life separation, work-life balance, don't listen to me.
1386
01:02:31.400 --> 01:02:33.599
I'm eight kilos overweight. Don't listen to me about fitness.
1387
01:02:34.500 --> 01:02:36.610
You know what I mean? But if you want to
1388
01:02:36.829 --> 01:02:39.989
have a life that's fulfilling and you're willing to work,
1389
01:02:40.550 --> 01:02:42.340
then listen to me. What I'm getting to is like
1390
01:02:42.360 --> 01:02:44.400
a lot of people right now who think they haven't
1391
01:02:44.420 --> 01:02:46.380
got the job they wanted, I bet they didn't even
1392
01:02:46.440 --> 01:02:47.860
know what that life actually is.
1393
01:02:48.280 --> 01:02:50.800
Yeah, I think that's really, really good practical advice on
1394
01:02:50.900 --> 01:02:53.489
so many different levels. I think that on the side
1395
01:02:53.510 --> 01:02:56.369
you're saying, absolutely, you may well not even want that job.
1396
01:02:56.429 --> 01:02:58.170
And it may well just be a label that you
1397
01:02:58.570 --> 01:03:01.090
see as the version of external validation that you need
1398
01:03:01.110 --> 01:03:04.400
to complete your self-worth or whatever it might be. You
1399
01:03:04.440 --> 01:03:06.940
might also... meet that person and realize you need to
1400
01:03:06.980 --> 01:03:09.480
double down because that's exactly what you want. But I
1401
01:03:09.519 --> 01:03:12.400
think that it's so right, particularly with social media now,
1402
01:03:12.500 --> 01:03:16.559
that actually it's very easy to see all these different
1403
01:03:16.579 --> 01:03:19.300
versions of a life that you don't have and to
1404
01:03:19.519 --> 01:03:22.880
automatically assume that you want the life of the CEO,
1405
01:03:23.039 --> 01:03:27.710
for example, whilst actually only wanting 40% of the things
1406
01:03:27.750 --> 01:03:29.869
in their life. And that 40% is the glitzy side
1407
01:03:29.909 --> 01:03:32.119
you see on social media. And I think that it's
1408
01:03:32.199 --> 01:03:34.199
very hard to show that 100% because even I can
1409
01:03:34.239 --> 01:03:36.170
say that. And still, if I'm having a shit day,
1410
01:03:36.510 --> 01:03:38.010
I'm not going to be doing my job and posting
1411
01:03:38.030 --> 01:03:41.469
on my stories. Like I'm just not because I need
1412
01:03:41.510 --> 01:03:43.869
to do my job and I'm having a shit day.
1413
01:03:43.909 --> 01:03:45.690
So that's the last thing I want to do. And
1414
01:03:45.710 --> 01:03:48.940
I think that even just like practically from the point
1415
01:03:48.980 --> 01:03:51.639
of view, I think so many people have these ideas
1416
01:03:51.679 --> 01:03:54.019
in their heads of like, I want to do this
1417
01:03:54.099 --> 01:03:55.760
or I want to be this or whatever it might be.
1418
01:03:56.159 --> 01:03:59.159
The actual execution of that It's going to take you
1419
01:03:59.300 --> 01:04:01.219
so long to work out whether you actually want that
1420
01:04:01.300 --> 01:04:05.199
and being able to put yourself close to someone who
1421
01:04:05.449 --> 01:04:07.510
is doing that and learn as much as possible about
1422
01:04:07.530 --> 01:04:09.449
the pros and cons and whether that suits you. I
1423
01:04:09.469 --> 01:04:12.630
think that I completely agree that both that's very important
1424
01:04:12.690 --> 01:04:15.070
and also that that's something that the education system does
1425
01:04:15.130 --> 01:04:16.389
not set us up well for.
1426
01:04:18.849 --> 01:04:21.550
This is David and John from the David McWilliams podcast
1427
01:04:21.909 --> 01:04:24.469
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How would you say you know the difference and how
1445
01:05:12.280 --> 01:05:15.519
do you find out the difference between failure that means
1446
01:05:15.579 --> 01:05:20.380
that you should maybe try again and keep going and
1447
01:05:20.460 --> 01:05:24.039
keep knocking down that door or failure where you should
1448
01:05:24.980 --> 01:05:27.179
probably take the hint that that's actually not the right
1449
01:05:27.199 --> 01:05:29.070
thing for you and go and do something differently?
1450
01:05:29.889 --> 01:05:34.610
It's a great question. I think often, like I failed
1451
01:05:34.670 --> 01:05:37.230
so many times and every time I've had a failure,
1452
01:05:37.250 --> 01:05:40.289
I realized it had to happen. So for example, I
1453
01:05:40.329 --> 01:05:42.630
invested in a company called Devoshard, it was a comic
1454
01:05:42.650 --> 01:05:44.579
book business. I lost a million US dollars and I
1455
01:05:44.639 --> 01:05:47.159
couldn't afford it by the way. This was all the
1456
01:05:47.199 --> 01:05:49.570
money I had I put into a comic book business.
1457
01:05:49.630 --> 01:05:51.190
It was a great idea. I still love it, which
1458
01:05:51.210 --> 01:05:53.949
was like, what if Superman landed in China? It's funny
1459
01:05:53.989 --> 01:05:55.829
how everyone instantly thinks he's evil. I don't know why.
1460
01:05:56.329 --> 01:05:59.449
Or if Spider-Man was born in India, what would that
1461
01:05:59.469 --> 01:06:01.849
look like? And the whole comic book series was around
1462
01:06:01.929 --> 01:06:04.750
cultural awareness. It was really cool. And I fell in
1463
01:06:04.789 --> 01:06:06.869
love with the whole idea and I put all the
1464
01:06:06.889 --> 01:06:08.710
money I had into it and we built it up
1465
01:06:09.170 --> 01:06:12.500
and then it failed. And then one of the things
1466
01:06:12.539 --> 01:06:14.599
that happened was, I don't even like saying his name,
1467
01:06:14.619 --> 01:06:17.429
but someone very well known tried to get involved in
1468
01:06:17.449 --> 01:06:20.650
the business and it didn't work out and it turns
1469
01:06:20.690 --> 01:06:21.949
out that person that tried to get involved in the
1470
01:06:21.969 --> 01:06:24.349
business was a very bad person it became out a
1471
01:06:24.369 --> 01:06:25.889
bit later in the news that they were a very
1472
01:06:25.929 --> 01:06:29.030
bad person and I just thought to myself thank god
1473
01:06:29.110 --> 01:06:32.280
my comic book failed because otherwise I might have accidentally
1474
01:06:32.300 --> 01:06:34.739
been in business with this person so everything kind of
1475
01:06:34.760 --> 01:06:37.059
happens for a reason you're meant to experiment in life
1476
01:06:37.119 --> 01:06:39.139
life is we said it already but a journey I
1477
01:06:39.159 --> 01:06:41.719
don't think people realize it's really just one big experiment
1478
01:06:42.239 --> 01:06:44.840
you know you can't take money with you So all
1479
01:06:44.860 --> 01:06:46.699
the money, I've already told my son, I'm spending all
1480
01:06:46.739 --> 01:06:48.539
the money I've made before I die.
1481
01:06:48.860 --> 01:06:49.679
You better make your own.
1482
01:06:49.719 --> 01:06:51.869
Yeah, kind of. But I'm not doing my job as
1483
01:06:51.909 --> 01:06:53.949
a parent. If I don't give him the ability to, like,
1484
01:06:53.969 --> 01:06:55.449
I'm going to give him a fishing rod, not a fish.
1485
01:06:55.949 --> 01:06:57.309
If I tell him he's going to get all this money,
1486
01:06:57.590 --> 01:06:59.170
bad to what we were saying earlier, that won't give
1487
01:06:59.210 --> 01:07:01.840
him the hardship he needs. Right? Don't get me wrong.
1488
01:07:01.960 --> 01:07:04.219
I buy him Lego every single day right now. He's eight.
1489
01:07:04.880 --> 01:07:07.179
So I'm doing right now, I'm spoiling him. I think
1490
01:07:07.199 --> 01:07:07.820
there's up to 10.
1491
01:07:07.800 --> 01:07:08.780
That's where all the money's going.
1492
01:07:09.179 --> 01:07:11.179
Up to 10, pretty much. I'm spending it on Lego.
1493
01:07:11.820 --> 01:07:13.739
But my point is that I think for a lot
1494
01:07:13.780 --> 01:07:17.460
of people, you should realize that it's the learning that's
1495
01:07:17.480 --> 01:07:19.539
the fun bit, even when it's a failure. So I
1496
01:07:19.579 --> 01:07:21.760
went to Sandy Yoga Comic Con. I met Stan Lee,
1497
01:07:21.780 --> 01:07:25.250
the creator of the Hulk and Spider-Man. I sat with
1498
01:07:25.329 --> 01:07:27.170
NBC Universal and they said they were going to turn
1499
01:07:27.190 --> 01:07:29.650
it into a movie. I've had all these incredible fun
1500
01:07:29.730 --> 01:07:33.110
moments in the failure. You know, like the failure itself
1501
01:07:33.230 --> 01:07:35.679
is the end result. Just like success, hopefully, is the
1502
01:07:35.719 --> 01:07:39.300
end result. But all the experiences in between are just
1503
01:07:39.380 --> 01:07:41.730
the best thing ever. Like, I did all these things.
1504
01:07:41.769 --> 01:07:44.429
I would never have gone to San Diego Comic-Con and
1505
01:07:44.489 --> 01:07:46.869
dressed up as a turtle if I hadn't had a
1506
01:07:46.889 --> 01:07:49.349
comic book business. You know what I mean? Like, it's
1507
01:07:49.429 --> 01:07:52.739
the adventure of life that makes me want to keep
1508
01:07:52.780 --> 01:07:53.719
trying these things too.
1509
01:07:53.920 --> 01:07:55.960
And what would you say that kind of, on the
1510
01:07:56.019 --> 01:07:58.559
other hand, for someone who maybe doesn't yet know whether
1511
01:07:58.599 --> 01:08:02.880
something's a success or a failure, what does self-belief... look
1512
01:08:02.960 --> 01:08:08.159
like practically when you are trying something but it's not
1513
01:08:08.949 --> 01:08:10.989
working out yet? Like it's not taking off, it's not
1514
01:08:11.030 --> 01:08:11.849
providing for you?
1515
01:08:12.070 --> 01:08:14.409
People just need to run the numbers. If you're scared
1516
01:08:14.449 --> 01:08:17.770
of something, look at the maximum downside and can you
1517
01:08:17.789 --> 01:08:20.750
take it? Because the maximum upside, humans, we find it
1518
01:08:20.810 --> 01:08:24.369
very difficult to imagine the upside because we're scared to
1519
01:08:24.409 --> 01:08:27.060
be too optimistic, which is a strange trait. Humans are
1520
01:08:27.069 --> 01:08:29.439
the only animals that can think about the future. Most
1521
01:08:29.479 --> 01:08:32.159
other animals can't prepare or plan the future. but sometimes
1522
01:08:32.199 --> 01:08:34.539
we use it against ourselves. So we don't plan the
1523
01:08:34.579 --> 01:08:38.119
upside enough and we plan the downside. I think as
1524
01:08:38.140 --> 01:08:40.319
long as you can handle the worst case scenario, let's
1525
01:08:40.340 --> 01:08:42.079
say all your savings are gone and you have to
1526
01:08:42.100 --> 01:08:45.689
go back and get a job. Okay, that's the downside, right?
1527
01:08:45.699 --> 01:08:47.170
You go back to where you are now, but you
1528
01:08:47.189 --> 01:08:48.989
don't have any savings, but at least you have a story.
1529
01:08:49.630 --> 01:08:52.029
I think run the numbers and then get comfortable with
1530
01:08:52.050 --> 01:08:54.989
the downside. Good thing about a limited company, most business structures,
1531
01:08:55.310 --> 01:08:58.109
there is a limited downside, right? Unless you do something illegal,
1532
01:08:58.250 --> 01:09:01.119
which case there isn't, but you know- personal guarantees personal
1533
01:09:01.140 --> 01:09:03.579
guarantees well be careful of those but i think generally
1534
01:09:03.619 --> 01:09:06.720
like in business my corporate business didn't go bankrupt i
1535
01:09:06.800 --> 01:09:09.819
wound it down because it wasn't financially viable i i
1536
01:09:09.840 --> 01:09:12.380
always think it's quite healthy like i one of the
1537
01:09:12.399 --> 01:09:14.310
things i'm most proud of is in 35 years i've
1538
01:09:14.350 --> 01:09:17.279
met payroll every month i've never not paid someone And
1539
01:09:17.319 --> 01:09:19.380
in part, it's because my idea of a failure is
1540
01:09:19.399 --> 01:09:21.390
when I've only got one month's money left and there's
1541
01:09:21.399 --> 01:09:23.819
not any money coming in. And I'm not going to
1542
01:09:23.859 --> 01:09:26.069
raise money for this business anymore because I don't believe
1543
01:09:26.109 --> 01:09:28.609
in it. And I wind it down. I've never gone bankrupt,
1544
01:09:28.689 --> 01:09:31.029
but I've had many businesses fail. And I think that's
1545
01:09:31.050 --> 01:09:32.529
the way to plan it out a little bit. Maybe
1546
01:09:32.550 --> 01:09:35.689
with your personal finances. I met someone outside the front
1547
01:09:35.729 --> 01:09:38.069
here who wanted to launch a hat business. I told him,
1548
01:09:38.090 --> 01:09:39.270
give me the sample because I'll give it to you.
1549
01:09:39.289 --> 01:09:41.289
But they didn't have one. And so I said, they
1550
01:09:41.329 --> 01:09:43.149
missed an opportunity. You should always have your hat in
1551
01:09:43.170 --> 01:09:45.439
your hand if that's what you want to do. I'm like,
1552
01:09:45.479 --> 01:09:46.800
I don't have any money to make the hats. I'm like,
1553
01:09:46.819 --> 01:09:48.079
how much money have you actually got? It's like, I've
1554
01:09:48.100 --> 01:09:49.979
got 300 quid. I'm like, how many hats can that
1555
01:09:50.020 --> 01:09:53.000
buy you? He's like, probably 40. I'm like, make 40,
1556
01:09:53.000 --> 01:09:56.609
sell 40. Worst is you lose 300 quid, right? And
1557
01:09:56.829 --> 01:09:58.350
you've got the whole cycle in your hand then. You
1558
01:09:58.369 --> 01:10:01.329
know what marketing worked, what marketing didn't. You know what
1559
01:10:01.350 --> 01:10:03.829
people said about the hat afterwards. You know what I mean? Like,
1560
01:10:04.069 --> 01:10:05.569
don't have to make a million and sell a million.
1561
01:10:05.970 --> 01:10:07.979
You just need to make what you can afford. Downside
1562
01:10:08.020 --> 01:10:09.800
is you've lost 300 quid, but you could probably have
1563
01:10:09.840 --> 01:10:14.189
wasted that. at the weekend going out. So that's your downside, right?
1564
01:10:14.329 --> 01:10:16.010
And a bit of effort to make the content to
1565
01:10:16.069 --> 01:10:16.970
try and promote the hats.
1566
01:10:17.250 --> 01:10:19.569
I think the main thing there is that data generally
1567
01:10:19.609 --> 01:10:21.930
makes you feel more comfortable because at least you have visibility.
1568
01:10:22.090 --> 01:10:25.430
So for example, as you just said, you're running the numbers,
1569
01:10:25.470 --> 01:10:28.319
you're realising, oh, actually, the downside's a bit more than
1570
01:10:28.340 --> 01:10:32.039
I can take. You make that decision at a point
1571
01:10:32.119 --> 01:10:35.640
where you still have the upper hand, there's still a future,
1572
01:10:35.699 --> 01:10:37.840
you maybe haven't gone through all your savings, or as
1573
01:10:37.880 --> 01:10:39.680
you said, like you can wind it down, whatever it
1574
01:10:39.720 --> 01:10:43.529
might be. I think that what can be really harmful
1575
01:10:43.789 --> 01:10:47.010
is this kind of, instead of that chasing your dream
1576
01:10:47.029 --> 01:10:50.340
with a head in the sand kind of approach, where
1577
01:10:50.739 --> 01:10:55.180
you're not actually supporting yourself chasing your dream because you
1578
01:10:55.439 --> 01:10:57.680
are putting yourself constantly in a position where you don't
1579
01:10:57.699 --> 01:10:59.479
even know what's going on. You don't even know how
1580
01:10:59.659 --> 01:11:01.319
long the business can run for. You don't know the
1581
01:11:01.640 --> 01:11:03.460
economics of the business, all of this. And all of
1582
01:11:03.479 --> 01:11:06.060
this sounds very complex, but it's really not. It's just
1583
01:11:06.100 --> 01:11:09.920
about working out how much money... you have in your
1584
01:11:09.960 --> 01:11:11.939
savings to be able to keep you going for six
1585
01:11:11.979 --> 01:11:14.100
months maybe if this didn't go out or didn't go
1586
01:11:14.340 --> 01:11:17.000
right or whatever and being able to have that visibility
1587
01:11:17.060 --> 01:11:18.539
and then take the risk if you want to take
1588
01:11:18.560 --> 01:11:20.479
the risk like I've had times in my business journey
1589
01:11:20.520 --> 01:11:24.100
where I one time I clearly remember where I was
1590
01:11:24.140 --> 01:11:25.739
trying to work out the downside because I was trying
1591
01:11:25.760 --> 01:11:27.779
to work out if I should wind this business down
1592
01:11:28.500 --> 01:11:32.720
and I was thinking god you know there are suppliers
1593
01:11:32.739 --> 01:11:34.279
we've got things from there all of this and I
1594
01:11:34.300 --> 01:11:35.800
was working out the downside and I was going okay
1595
01:11:35.819 --> 01:11:38.800
well right now If everything stops and we stop it
1596
01:11:39.060 --> 01:11:42.319
right now, I'm going to be two million in debt
1597
01:11:42.560 --> 01:11:47.020
within the next few months. So whereas if I get
1598
01:11:47.060 --> 01:11:49.850
to continue this for if I if I manage to,
1599
01:11:49.890 --> 01:11:51.510
you know, we hit this number on this day and
1600
01:11:51.529 --> 01:11:53.010
then this number on this day and this number on
1601
01:11:53.050 --> 01:11:58.949
this day. If I put like a few thousand more in,
1602
01:11:59.369 --> 01:12:01.430
then we could get to a point where we never
1603
01:12:01.470 --> 01:12:03.449
hit that debt point because we never hit that cash
1604
01:12:03.470 --> 01:12:05.659
flow issue. And at that point, I was like, yeah,
1605
01:12:05.779 --> 01:12:07.380
I believe in this enough. I'm going to do it.
1606
01:12:07.460 --> 01:12:10.439
I'm going to take the risk, like potentially fuck everything up,
1607
01:12:10.500 --> 01:12:11.659
but I'm going to take the risk. I'm not going
1608
01:12:11.689 --> 01:12:12.470
to wind it down at that point.
1609
01:12:12.479 --> 01:12:14.970
You said something key there. You believed in it. That
1610
01:12:15.010 --> 01:12:17.250
is actually important because I would take the hit on
1611
01:12:17.270 --> 01:12:18.949
the two million if I didn't believe in it. That's
1612
01:12:18.970 --> 01:12:20.810
what happened with the comic book business. I actually didn't
1613
01:12:20.829 --> 01:12:22.489
believe in it in the end. It wasn't actually my dream.
1614
01:12:22.850 --> 01:12:25.340
It was someone else's idea, someone else's dream. I just
1615
01:12:25.380 --> 01:12:29.460
took it on board. I think that's key, partly. Like downside,
1616
01:12:29.640 --> 01:12:32.119
you can get out of debt. I don't want anyone
1617
01:12:32.140 --> 01:12:33.380
to get into debt. I hate debt, by the way.
1618
01:12:33.439 --> 01:12:35.840
I've avoided debt my whole life. I don't have any debt.
1619
01:12:36.159 --> 01:12:38.500
My house is owned outright. My cars are owned outright.
1620
01:12:38.520 --> 01:12:40.439
I don't have any debt. I hate it. People are
1621
01:12:40.470 --> 01:12:42.409
always telling me to leverage. Every financial advisor I meet
1622
01:12:42.430 --> 01:12:45.010
tells me to leverage. I hate debt. But the key
1623
01:12:45.050 --> 01:12:47.840
there is you can keep going because you believe in it.
1624
01:12:48.430 --> 01:12:49.989
And you do need energy for these things. If it's
1625
01:12:50.010 --> 01:12:51.630
taking your energy, you're going to get into more debt,
1626
01:12:51.670 --> 01:12:55.279
to be honest. You can't. You'll just collapse. But if
1627
01:12:55.319 --> 01:12:57.699
you believe in it, energy comes your way and you
1628
01:12:57.739 --> 01:12:59.800
can push through. I think that is actually the key element.
1629
01:13:01.100 --> 01:13:04.270
And I wish we could speak forever an hour because
1630
01:13:04.279 --> 01:13:06.350
we have a lot to speak about but very sadly
1631
01:13:06.510 --> 01:13:09.510
we have to wrap up for recording time so um
1632
01:13:10.189 --> 01:13:12.489
can I ask you what the best piece of advice
1633
01:13:12.529 --> 01:13:14.270
is that you've ever been given I asked.
1634
01:13:14.130 --> 01:13:15.649
My wife this question this morning because this is the
1635
01:13:15.670 --> 01:13:17.810
question you sent me in advance because I always had
1636
01:13:17.850 --> 01:13:20.529
the same answer I wanted to give something original so
1637
01:13:20.569 --> 01:13:23.140
I asked my wife what was the best advice she
1638
01:13:23.340 --> 01:13:26.560
ever had and then she didn't give me an answer
1639
01:13:26.579 --> 01:13:31.010
um My normal thing is my wife actually has given
1640
01:13:31.029 --> 01:13:33.750
me the best advice ever. She kind of, she reads
1641
01:13:33.789 --> 01:13:35.949
a lot. I don't read at all. And she was
1642
01:13:36.069 --> 01:13:38.750
talking about like, oh, you know, she read this quote,
1643
01:13:38.770 --> 01:13:40.970
the purpose of life is a life of purpose. And
1644
01:13:40.989 --> 01:13:43.539
I think it's so true. But when I asked her
1645
01:13:43.619 --> 01:13:47.460
what she felt was the most important thing advice-wise that
1646
01:13:47.500 --> 01:13:51.279
she'd ever heard, she said nothing. And I realized my
1647
01:13:51.359 --> 01:13:54.920
wife is the best listener. You know, the whole thing,
1648
01:13:54.979 --> 01:13:57.369
we've got one mouth and two ears, you know, like,
1649
01:13:57.800 --> 01:14:00.079
I do actually, and I've been working on this consciously
1650
01:14:00.119 --> 01:14:03.060
myself the last few years, is listening. Like listening to people,
1651
01:14:03.100 --> 01:14:05.000
stopping in the street and hearing someone's dream, letting them
1652
01:14:05.039 --> 01:14:08.659
completely finish it. Understanding what people out there are talking
1653
01:14:08.720 --> 01:14:13.260
about politics-wise and what's really going on. Like listening is such...
1654
01:14:13.460 --> 01:14:16.239
So my wife's advice, if she'd said anything, ironically, would
1655
01:14:16.300 --> 01:14:19.970
be listen more. She listens to everybody and everything. And
1656
01:14:19.979 --> 01:14:21.569
I was once in a meeting with her, just to conclude.
1657
01:14:21.949 --> 01:14:23.850
I was once in a meeting with her, a very,
1658
01:14:23.890 --> 01:14:26.630
very senior group of people in business. And we were
1659
01:14:26.649 --> 01:14:28.710
trying to do a big deal And I was pitching
1660
01:14:28.750 --> 01:14:31.590
how brilliant my company was and how brilliant I was.
1661
01:14:32.289 --> 01:14:34.829
And my wife, who was my business partner at the time, uh,
1662
01:14:34.890 --> 01:14:37.649
was sitting there. It was a two hour meeting where
1663
01:14:37.720 --> 01:14:39.859
I don't think I stopped talking for two hours the
1664
01:14:39.920 --> 01:14:43.310
whole time. And at the end of the meeting, I said, uh,
1665
01:14:43.439 --> 01:14:45.420
it was, um, CNN we were meeting and I was
1666
01:14:45.439 --> 01:14:47.539
trying to win their work to do international marketing for them.
1667
01:14:48.180 --> 01:14:50.369
And at the end of the meeting, the head of, uh,
1668
01:14:50.409 --> 01:14:54.130
the CNN, uh, marketing globally said, Simon, uh, great presentation.
1669
01:14:54.189 --> 01:14:57.939
Thanks very much. Um, We know that Helen is the
1670
01:14:57.979 --> 01:15:00.100
brain of this operation because she's just sat there and
1671
01:15:00.140 --> 01:15:02.739
listened the whole time. Helen, what do you think? And
1672
01:15:02.760 --> 01:15:04.979
then Helen, who had listened to me and listened to them,
1673
01:15:05.039 --> 01:15:08.050
watched their body language, everything, just said, I think the
1674
01:15:08.090 --> 01:15:09.979
best thing for you to do is X, Y, and Z,
1675
01:15:09.989 --> 01:15:12.489
which was a campaign idea. And I went, absolutely, let's
1676
01:15:12.529 --> 01:15:15.449
do that, Helen, you're right. So basically she listened for
1677
01:15:15.529 --> 01:15:18.869
two hours, said one sentence and won the project. And
1678
01:15:18.930 --> 01:15:21.529
so listening is so powerful. When Helen didn't even reply
1679
01:15:21.550 --> 01:15:22.930
to me this morning, I know that's what she would
1680
01:15:22.970 --> 01:15:25.130
have said. I think that's one of the, you know,
1681
01:15:25.189 --> 01:15:27.229
purpose of life is a life of purpose. But sometimes just,
1682
01:15:27.270 --> 01:15:30.520
you know, listen to yourself. Listen to your heart more
1683
01:15:30.560 --> 01:15:33.039
than your head. Don't let logic get in the way
1684
01:15:33.079 --> 01:15:36.199
of a good idea. And listen to your family and friends.
1685
01:15:36.399 --> 01:15:39.220
But sometimes, you know, most importantly, just kind of listen
1686
01:15:39.260 --> 01:15:41.100
to what you feel you're meant to be doing, not
1687
01:15:41.119 --> 01:15:42.159
what people have told you to do.
1688
01:15:42.479 --> 01:15:44.140
I love that. Well, thank you so much. Thank you
1689
01:15:44.159 --> 01:15:47.710
for sharing your wisdom. And, yeah, I mean, we'll leave
1690
01:15:47.729 --> 01:15:49.229
all of your info in the show notes, but I'm
1691
01:15:49.250 --> 01:15:50.989
sure people have seen you before and I'm sure they
1692
01:15:51.010 --> 01:15:52.149
will be seeing you again.
1693
01:15:52.170 --> 01:15:54.710
Sorry about that, folks. See you in your four-year period.
1694
01:16:19.199 --> 01:16:21.800
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