WKPWP: Interview Classic w/"Superstar" Bill Dundee: A legit fight with Randy Savage including a gun being pulled, working with Jerry Lawler

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back to the mid-2000s, starting with pay-per-view roundtables, hundreds of
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fascinating retro radio shows, including many that I hosted in
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Now, PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Keller
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Pro Wrestling Podcast. It's time for this week's interview classic,
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where Wade Keller interviews one of pro wrestling's newsmakers.
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On today's Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast for Saturday, October 17th, 2026,
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we're jumping back 15 years to my interview with superstar
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Bill Dundee, who died just a few weeks ago. We
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talked about his years in the Memphis territory in particular.
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He talked about the new Memphis Heat documentary, a new
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book he wrote on his career, thoughts on the evolution
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of the industry, and some terrific stories, including the legit
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fight with Randy Savage and thoughts on what made Randy
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so crazy. and also proposing to his wife that she
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lose her hair in a wrestling angle, comparing Jerry Lawler
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and Jerry Jarrett as bookers, stories from his WSW days,
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thoughts on the handshake tradition in locker rooms, and much,
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much more. We had live calls throughout and a special
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30-minute previously VIP exclusive after show with questions supplied by
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PWTorch senior columnist Bruce Mitchell at the time. So let's
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get to it. This live streamed on October 7th, 2011.
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It's today's Weight Killer Pursing Podcast episode. 15 years ago,
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interview classic. Welcome to the PWTorch live cast. It is Friday,
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October 7th, 2011. And I'm Wade Keller, editor and publisher
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of the Pro Wrestling Torch newsletter since 1987 and PWTorch.com
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since 1999. And now we are also the last few years,
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a free app on the iPhone and Android platform. And
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we are excited to announce that our guest on Interview
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Friday here at the Livecast is longtime Memphis Mainstay superstar
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Bill Dundee. Bill, thank you for joining us today.
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Hey, Gary.
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Wade, how are you doing?
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I'm doing great. It is just a pleasure to talk
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to you. I have not had the privilege of interviewing
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you in the 24 years I've been covering wrestling, so
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this is a special treat for me.
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I wouldn't have spoke to you 24 years ago.
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I mean, I spoke to you five years ago.
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It was all different, but everybody's used it, and the
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prostitutes did all the things they've done to it, so
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why not? Back in the good old days when Kay
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Fabe was running around, you wouldn't have done it, and
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I certainly wouldn't have talked to you 25 years ago.
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Well, my first big-name interview about 22 years ago was
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Vern Gagne, but I'm not sure entirely he knew what
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I did when I did the interview.
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Right.
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Anyway that was that and this is now.
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You know on that note well first let me give
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out the phone numbers because we're absolutely inviting everybody listening
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today to give us a call if you've got a
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question for Bill if you want to know about Memphis
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wrestling history Bill is a big part of the Memphis
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Heat documentary great source to talk about that documentary if
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you've been fortunate enough to see it if you've got
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a question about anybody who passed through Memphis or anything
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about the Memphis territory or just old time wrestling as
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Bill said You know, he's an old-school guy, and if
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you want his opinion on how things have changed, for
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the better or for worse, he's open to those calls.
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I asked him before he went on the air, and
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he said he doesn't watch much wrestling at all these days.
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So we don't want people calling up, you know, saying,
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you know, who reminds you the most of you on
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today's scene? We're going to be talking about the past
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on today's show. And also, I want to talk to
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Bill about the book that he's got coming out. He's
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just finishing it up. He's on the last chapter. There
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are some– I got fortunate enough to see a chapter list,
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and it's great stuff. A lot of cool stories that
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are going to be told in that book. The number,
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if you want to give us a call, is 646-721-9828.
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That's 646-721-9828. And you can also email us during the
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show right now at pwtorchlivecast at gmail.com. That's pwtorchlivecast at gmail.com.
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We've got a few questions already. in the queue, and
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we have one person on hold who wants to ask
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a question, so you can add your name to that list.
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We also have the chat room open, so feel free
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to chat away in the chat room, and we'll be
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live here for the next 58 minutes. By way of introduction, Bill,
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you've got quite the story in terms of how you
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got started in professional wrestling, and it's covered quickly in
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the Talk a little bit about how the path was
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paved for you to work your way from where you
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were born in Scotland to making your way to the
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Memphis Territory.
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All right, but before I do that, let me ask
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you a question. I'm away out in the middle of
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the country here in Arkansas, so if this thing dies
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on me because you know who cell phones are, do
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I just call you back?
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Yep, you just call the exact same number back, and
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you'll chime right back in.
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Because sometimes you'll be chatting away, and it'll just go beep,
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and you're off the air. You know what I mean?
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So, yeah.
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To answer your question, how did I get started or
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paved the way to America? Well, real quick, because I
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don't want to tell you what the book's all about.
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But when I was a young kid growing up in Scotland,
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my uncle had a judo school. And I went and
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did judo. Before Bruce Lee came along, there was no
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kung fu. There was no, you know, the way it
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is today. It was judo, and that was about it.
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Or jujitsu. And then there was boxing, and then there
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was wrestling. That was about all there was. So I
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went there, and there was two guys coming to work
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at it. I've seen them on television. They used to
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have wrestled on in Britain from 2 o'clock in the
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afternoon to 6 o'clock at night. The Billy Robertsons and
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the Tony Charles and that type of wrestling was all
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wrestling wrestling. And I saw the two dudes that were
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working at it. They do much the same as we do,
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so I went and talked to him. I said, hey, man,
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I'd like to be a wrestler when I grow up.
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One of them said, well, you better start growing. But anyway...
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So I said, well, hang on, here we go. So
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I got interested then, and I watched them and watched them.
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So then when we moved from Australia, from Scotland to Australia,
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I just happened to move into a place next door
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to this guy who had an unarmed combat type school
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in his backyard. And I walked in there, and I said, well,
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I'm going to take this up, because I like to
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fight a little bit and do things. So I walked
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in there, and he has a big poster on the wall.
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He said, Clive Coram. I said, wow, is that you?
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He said, yeah. I said, well, I'd like to be
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a professional wrestler. He said, you ain't big enough. I said, well,
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that's what they said to David, but he whooped the lion.
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So anyway, after he said, I'll teach you if you
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want to stay after the class. He said, I'll teach you.
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I said, okay. So while the rest of the guys
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would leave and I would stay, he taught me the
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fundamentals of professional wrestling. So then, now once you're kind
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of learning, you've got to figure out a place to go.
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So he says to me, I have a friend of
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mine named Paul Fuel who has a son that's about
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your size, and he never has an opponent, and he
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works well. He has an opponent now. So his dad
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used to run in the summertime. He would go to
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the beer gardens of the bar, public bar in Australia,
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and he would set the ring up, and people would
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come and watch, and we'd wrestle. And I guess I
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wrestled him for the first three years of my career
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because everybody else was bigger. But this By the time
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I was lifting weights, trying to put weight on and
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do all the things you've got to do from 160
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pounds to get up to 222 pounds eventually. So when
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Jim Barnett came, he needed people to put the boys
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over on television, so he got in touch with Ken
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Fury because we had a whole parcel of guys wrestling
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with his time. And we used to go up to
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Melbourne TV and put Mark Loon over, Ken Curtis, Cole Murphy, Bernard,
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Curtis E.O.K., all them names, Ray Stevens, Pat Patterson. So
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there was a gentleman by the name of Hal Morgan.
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He used to run the league clubs in Sydney. So
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he got in touch with me and said, would you
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like to come up here and wrestle? I said, yeah.
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He said, you can still work for Barnett. He'd fly
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you all over. He said, but we run the league
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clubs every night, seven nights a week. And you could
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do this in Sydney, just in Sydney. You didn't have
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to leave. You could do the first match in one club,
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drive in your car 12 miles, do the second match
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in another one, and drive over and do the main event.
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in the third club, and you could do that as
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often as you wanted to do it. You got paid
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about 15 bucks a shot, I think. So we was
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doing pretty good, and Barnett was using us on TV
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and taking us to all over the place. and then
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when Bobby Shane came 10 years later he said me
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and George Barnes had already teamed up in Australia and
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he said you guys would get over in Tennessee and
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we said well we've had a lot of people tell
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us we could get over we could do this and
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this but nobody's ever done nothing he said well I'll
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do it do it right now what time is it
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so he got the time difference of what it is
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in America to Australia he called Jerry Jarrett And he
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started the ball rolling that day. So it took a
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year to get us there. So a year later, Barnes
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and I showed up in Memphis, Tennessee, and here we are.
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The rest is history, as you say.
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Was there any hesitation on the initial move to Australia
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and then from there to go to Memphis? Or were
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you just up for an adventure and didn't really feel
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tied down to your hometown?
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No, I had a wife and two kids, so it
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was a pretty big step to take. But I had
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a lot of faith in George Barnes and Bill Dundee.
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I thought, we do this business better than most, and
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as good as the ones that do it. The champions,
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we saw Mark Loon and Ken Curtis and all them.
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And we could wrestle, wrestle, think, so it made a
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little difference. So I thought, if we get the chance
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at this, we can do this. We got over in
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four weeks in Memphis. The first show I was on
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in Memphis, it was $ 4, 000. The third one we was on,
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it was sold out.
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Oh, wow.
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That's great. That's very encouraging. When you were in Australia.
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We were the main event on that one.
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Did you know that you can enjoy commercial-free versions of
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all of your favorite Wade Keller podcasts and PWTorch Daily Casts?
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Just go to patreon.com, search PWTorch, and subscribe to a
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VIP membership tier. You get a seven-day free trial, by
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the way, to kick the tires a bit and see
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if you like the service. And then sync it with Spotify,
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and you can listen to commercial-free versions of our free shows,
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like the Wade Keller Post Shows, the Wade Keller Podcast Flagship,
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our flashbacks, and also the PWTorch DataCast lineup online. Again,
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all commercial-free, a nice streamlined listening experience. But with third-tier membership,
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Either way works, go to Patreon and start your seven-day
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free trial. When you were in Australia, who were some
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of the bigger names that you did work against in matches?
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Did you work against Pat Patterson or Ray Stephens at
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that time?
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Yeah, they came over. Barnett brought them over, and Pat Patterson,
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and Mark Lewin, and Ken Curtis, Scott Murphy, Brooke Bernard.
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Who do you think you learned the most from? Who
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did you consider, you know, the... the opponent who you
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learned the most from working against?
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I mean, they were all great workers back in the day.
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So you go in the ring, and remember, we were
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doing jobs in Australia. We weren't exactly the champions. We learned.
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And if the people you worked with liked you, they
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would work with you. So, I mean, they would teach
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you things and tell you, hey, kid, you did this wrong.
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And that's what I think has happened today. There's nobody
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teaching nothing. It's like I keep saying that. The puppeteer
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has to make the puppet dance, and if the puppeteer
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doesn't know what he's doing, neither does the puppet.
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We have seen that as a problem in recent years.
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That's a good way to put it.
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Yeah, and that's the only way to put it, and
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all the guys today can say, well, I do this,
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and I don't matter. If you've got no psychology, this
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business don't work. But get back to your question. I mean,
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Mark Loon was great. Ray Stevens was great. Pat Patterson
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was great. And like I said, back in the day,
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if they liked you, they would tell you what you
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was doing wrong. Hey, kid, you need to do this
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or don't do this or do that. And it was
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a whole different thing than today. I mean, people cared
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about one another, I think, more back then as far as...
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I know how you're just doing jobs. You're not going
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to take nobody's jobs. You know, they're not scared of you.
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Yeah, good point. If you're just joining us, our special
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guest here on Interview Friday on the PWTorch Livecast is
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superstar Bill Dundee, a Memphis wrestling legend. Drew some very
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big gates, often against Jerry Lawler. He is a big
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part of the new and excellent Memphis Heat documentary that
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just came out to the public on October 1st. It
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was on limited release in theaters earlier this year. A
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really good documentary with some fantastic extras built in. If
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you are a newer fan and not familiar with Memphis wrestling,
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and you've heard about it, I'm sure you've heard about it,
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but you might not have had a chance to see
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much of it, maybe a YouTube clip here and there.
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This is a very nice, high-quality DVD, absolutely worth your purchase.
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You go to memphis-heat.com to order it, and you'll get
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a glimpse at a good historical perspective and a window
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into a very different wrestling world that Bill Dundee was
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as big a part of as anybody right there with
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Jerry Lawler. I'm trying to think. Your stay in Memphis
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started in 1974 and ended– When did you finally leave,
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kind of finally and officially Memphis?
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Well, it actually started then, 74, again, 75. When did
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we officially leave? When it went away, when Vince killed it.
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Not just Vince, it was cable television. But when it
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got to when everybody thought everybody was at work and
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everybody was, anybody was just wanted to get in it,
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got in it, it was it. Then, I mean, you know,
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we destroyed our own business, but it always happens that way.
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Do you think along those lines that there would have
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been any possibility in society as it's changed in the
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last 25 years during, you know, we kind of call
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it the WrestleMania years? Cable was going national no matter what. pay-per-view,
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00:15:43.799 --> 00:15:46.399
available nationally, was going to happen, whether it was Vince
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McMahon or Ole Anderson or Bill Watts or Fritz Von Erich.
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It doesn't matter. Even the media changed, and there's skepticism
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00:15:52.379 --> 00:15:54.169
towards things changing. Do you think there's a way that
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Kate Fabe could have been protected, or was it pretty
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inevitable that one way or the other, what fans had
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00:16:00.409 --> 00:16:03.350
suspected for decades was going to become much more common
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knowledge and more detailed, the nature of the wrestling industry?
316
00:16:06.370 --> 00:16:08.320
No, it could have been protected. Vince did it for
317
00:16:08.340 --> 00:16:10.639
a different reason. He's smart in the world, but he
318
00:16:10.659 --> 00:16:13.169
didn't want to pay all them commissions. It was They're
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00:16:13.190 --> 00:16:14.950
the things that should be abolished. How can you have
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a commission on a bent business? How can you have
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00:16:17.350 --> 00:16:19.759
somebody come into a dressing room and say, you're going
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00:16:19.779 --> 00:16:21.279
to do this or pee in the cup or do
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00:16:21.320 --> 00:16:23.620
this or do that, and the business is already bent?
324
00:16:24.519 --> 00:16:26.340
We all know what's going on before we get to
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00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:29.440
the ring. So how can you have a commission to
326
00:16:29.480 --> 00:16:31.600
rule over that? So I can see what he did,
327
00:16:31.639 --> 00:16:33.269
but it cost him a lot of money to keep,
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00:16:33.289 --> 00:16:35.350
you know, he had to pay all them commissions. All
329
00:16:35.370 --> 00:16:37.529
the boys had to buy licenses. What are you licensed for?
330
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It's showbiz, for Christ's sake.
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00:16:40.190 --> 00:16:43.080
Yeah, yeah. And I think, you know, where the commissions
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00:16:43.100 --> 00:16:46.639
have been good is there's probably some shady promoters cutting
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00:16:46.659 --> 00:16:48.940
corners out there who might have had, you know, dirty rings,
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00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:53.039
spreading diseases.
335
00:16:53.159 --> 00:16:57.230
Shady promoters, brother, they are there. Because they cleaned the ring,
336
00:16:57.259 --> 00:16:58.759
that didn't mean the word shady.
337
00:16:59.299 --> 00:17:01.289
Yeah, no, no, but what I'm saying is the commissions
338
00:17:01.649 --> 00:17:03.730
in some instances did some good as far as that
339
00:17:03.750 --> 00:17:06.430
goes in terms of, you know, trying to make sure
340
00:17:06.450 --> 00:17:07.690
that there was a good level of safety.
341
00:17:08.630 --> 00:17:11.789
They must have never got to Tennessee with that part.
342
00:17:12.309 --> 00:17:14.609
And Kentucky and all the things they're still doing. I
343
00:17:14.650 --> 00:17:17.470
just don't like them because if it was a shoot business,
344
00:17:17.529 --> 00:17:20.410
that would be one thing. But it isn't. Everybody knows,
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00:17:20.430 --> 00:17:23.789
including the referee, what's happening before we go there. Now,
346
00:17:23.809 --> 00:17:26.710
the good old things, back in the good old days,
347
00:17:26.890 --> 00:17:28.930
there was room for doubt. But when Vince went on
348
00:17:28.970 --> 00:17:31.950
TV and said, this is a show, and Hogan, hey, brother,
349
00:17:31.970 --> 00:17:34.920
this is a show, and everybody, and all the steroid
350
00:17:34.960 --> 00:17:37.599
things everybody lied about and all the things that they did,
351
00:17:37.660 --> 00:17:40.609
I mean, it was just, What the hell? I don't know.
352
00:17:40.670 --> 00:17:43.930
Bill, was there any, within the Memphis territory, because it
353
00:17:43.950 --> 00:17:47.069
was around the 1970s when there was still a feeling
354
00:17:47.089 --> 00:17:50.430
that the champion in the territory should be someone who
355
00:17:50.519 --> 00:17:54.240
can shoot, or somebody who was a hooker, somebody who
356
00:17:54.779 --> 00:17:57.539
could hold their own in a legit fight. Jerry Lawler,
357
00:17:57.819 --> 00:18:01.109
he was an artist with great charisma, and one of
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00:18:01.140 --> 00:18:03.529
my favorite performers of all time in every way. I mean,
359
00:18:03.549 --> 00:18:07.819
I love his matches. and his promos and everything. But
360
00:18:07.839 --> 00:18:11.920
he didn't have a reputation as a guy who was
361
00:18:11.940 --> 00:18:14.259
going to hold his own against Jack Briscoe in the
362
00:18:14.299 --> 00:18:16.759
ring or Vern Gagne when it came down to it.
363
00:18:16.900 --> 00:18:19.329
Was there any kind of doubt that maybe Jerry was
364
00:18:19.349 --> 00:18:21.029
the right guy to go with by the time you
365
00:18:21.049 --> 00:18:22.569
got to Memphis? Did you have any sense of that?
366
00:18:22.609 --> 00:18:25.329
Or was he so entrenched as a drawing card, people
367
00:18:25.369 --> 00:18:27.769
kind of looked past the fact that he didn't have
368
00:18:27.789 --> 00:18:28.670
that amateur background?
369
00:18:29.980 --> 00:18:32.000
Well, I understand that, but only the boys in the
370
00:18:32.039 --> 00:18:35.019
business knew that or worried about that. It was a work,
371
00:18:35.079 --> 00:18:36.619
and he was one of the best at it. You
372
00:18:36.660 --> 00:18:38.720
said the word to start with. He was an artist.
373
00:18:39.059 --> 00:18:41.259
He could talk better than most. He could make it
374
00:18:41.299 --> 00:18:45.299
look like he could wrestle. So what does it matter?
375
00:18:45.380 --> 00:18:49.359
It's a bent business. If Lala's going over Billy Robinson,
376
00:18:49.400 --> 00:18:52.740
that's exactly what you're doing. Robinson doesn't do nothing to
377
00:18:52.779 --> 00:18:56.720
stop that. He's wanting paid that night. So, I mean, no,
378
00:18:56.769 --> 00:18:57.730
it had nothing to do with it.
379
00:18:58.109 --> 00:18:58.529
It's all work.
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00:18:59.089 --> 00:19:01.509
Jerry was, though, one of the first people who didn't
381
00:19:01.609 --> 00:19:04.569
have that, who was so successful, and I think, as
382
00:19:04.609 --> 00:19:07.410
you just illustrated, so widely accepted because of what he
383
00:19:07.450 --> 00:19:11.500
was good at. I don't know the history enough to
384
00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:13.339
know if he was the absolute first guy who didn't
385
00:19:13.380 --> 00:19:15.940
have the kind of amateur credentials that a lot of
386
00:19:16.019 --> 00:19:18.809
people in the business had. the people who preceded you,
387
00:19:18.829 --> 00:19:21.410
the previous generation, might have scoffed at Jerry for being
388
00:19:21.450 --> 00:19:23.809
a champion who, in a real fight, wouldn't have done
389
00:19:23.849 --> 00:19:25.670
as well as some of the other champions. And it
390
00:19:25.710 --> 00:19:27.690
doesn't matter to me. I totally agree with you. But
391
00:19:27.710 --> 00:19:29.119
I was wondering if that was ever an issue in
392
00:19:29.140 --> 00:19:29.859
Memphis that you knew of.
393
00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:32.680
It was never an issue anywhere. We went up to
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00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:35.599
the AWA with all them bad boys up there, and
395
00:19:35.640 --> 00:19:38.519
we were the AWA champions and all the things. This
396
00:19:38.559 --> 00:19:41.009
was a work. I mean, when Luthez used to come
397
00:19:41.029 --> 00:19:44.480
to Memphis, Yeah, he could probably beat everybody at Dresden. No,
398
00:19:44.519 --> 00:19:47.849
not probably. Could have done. But he didn't. By that time,
399
00:19:47.890 --> 00:19:51.000
he led the work. And the ones that really... started, well,
400
00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:51.759
I'm a tough guy.
401
00:19:51.819 --> 00:19:52.480
I can't do this.
402
00:19:52.579 --> 00:19:54.859
I can't do that. Well, we can't pay you. Don't
403
00:19:54.900 --> 00:19:57.400
come to our territory. Well, they figured that. They're not
404
00:19:57.420 --> 00:19:59.059
going to use me if I don't work with a
405
00:19:59.099 --> 00:20:01.579
champion in there. So that had nothing to do with it.
406
00:20:02.019 --> 00:20:04.599
And as far as Lawler convincing you he can fight,
407
00:20:05.019 --> 00:20:07.410
he certainly can. He can talk his way in on TV,
408
00:20:07.470 --> 00:20:09.529
and that's how he got over in Memphis and stayed
409
00:20:09.569 --> 00:20:12.960
over there. 25 years. And that's all it's about.
410
00:20:13.920 --> 00:20:17.500
No, you're right. It certainly was.
411
00:20:17.619 --> 00:20:20.269
John Wayne wasn't... I mean, he was an actor, for
412
00:20:20.309 --> 00:20:23.140
God's sake, in Hollywood, but when he said, I ain't
413
00:20:23.180 --> 00:20:27.349
gonna hit ya, the hell I ain't, and knocked ya out, wow,
414
00:20:27.410 --> 00:20:31.869
toughest guy on the screen. That was a gimmick. No, you're...
415
00:20:32.690 --> 00:20:34.789
Hogan had a champion. He can't beat nobody.
416
00:20:35.750 --> 00:20:37.869
I know, yeah. Well, but there were people who didn't
417
00:20:37.910 --> 00:20:40.410
like that. You know, there were people who thought... Hogan
418
00:20:40.430 --> 00:20:42.349
should have been, you know, that you don't give the
419
00:20:42.369 --> 00:20:44.230
belt to somebody. I think Verne had an issue, you know,
420
00:20:44.289 --> 00:20:45.769
even with that. I mean, he had a variety of reasons.
421
00:20:45.809 --> 00:20:48.269
Well, because Verne was an amateur, tough guy, and so,
422
00:20:48.309 --> 00:20:51.059
and his son, he could all wrestle. I understand that part.
423
00:20:51.450 --> 00:20:53.900
But it has nothing to do with drawing money. Jerry
424
00:20:53.960 --> 00:20:58.119
Lawler would outdraw Greg Gagne 10 to 1.
425
00:20:58.119 --> 00:21:00.319
I know. Well, absolutely, that's true.
426
00:21:02.680 --> 00:21:06.140
Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts? Well,
427
00:21:06.200 --> 00:21:09.099
come join me, Alan Forel, over in the Pro Wrestling
428
00:21:09.119 --> 00:21:12.630
Paradise at Peterborough Torch VIP as we bask on the
429
00:21:12.789 --> 00:21:15.369
bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the
430
00:21:15.470 --> 00:21:18.470
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431
00:21:18.589 --> 00:21:22.930
the US, Japan, Europe, or Mexico. There's always a place
432
00:21:22.950 --> 00:21:25.680
for wrestling's past in the Paradise too, and we've done
433
00:21:25.799 --> 00:21:28.759
fun historical shows such as the We Love Liger series,
434
00:21:29.059 --> 00:21:32.799
celebrating the glorious career of Jushin Thunder Liger. and our
435
00:21:32.920 --> 00:21:35.119
I Was There When shows, where our guests will join
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00:21:35.160 --> 00:21:37.559
me to talk about a classic bout that they were
437
00:21:37.579 --> 00:21:40.880
in attendance for. We love variety, and you can expect
438
00:21:40.980 --> 00:21:44.720
lots of it at the Pro Wrestling Paradise. Detailed PWTorch
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00:21:44.759 --> 00:21:48.309
VIP subscription information and a list of all the VIP
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00:21:48.349 --> 00:21:54.509
benefits is available at pwtorchvipinfo.com. And yes, all VIP podcasts
441
00:21:54.549 --> 00:21:59.569
are compatible with popular podcast apps on iPhone and Android devices,
442
00:21:59.589 --> 00:22:01.789
or you can stream them directly from our ad-free podcast
443
00:22:02.039 --> 00:22:04.779
VIP mobile site. See you in the paradise.
444
00:22:08.319 --> 00:22:10.380
Hey, Bill, why don't we take a couple calls and
445
00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:12.299
a couple email questions, and I've certainly got other things
446
00:22:12.339 --> 00:22:13.839
I want to talk to you about, but why don't
447
00:22:13.859 --> 00:22:15.539
we go to our first call in a second here
448
00:22:15.579 --> 00:22:16.880
if anybody else wants to get in line on the
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phone banks. The number is 646-721-9828. 646-721-9828. I'm Wade Keller,
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00:22:24.319 --> 00:22:27.000
and I'm pleased to be joined by superstar Bill Dundee
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on Interview Friday here at the PWTorch Livecast. Let's go
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00:22:30.299 --> 00:22:33.220
to our first call, area code 203. Thanks for holding.
453
00:22:33.240 --> 00:22:34.420
Please state your name and where you're from.
454
00:22:35.079 --> 00:22:36.559
Hi, it's Mark out of Connecticut.
455
00:22:36.740 --> 00:22:37.500
Hey, Mark, how you doing?
456
00:22:38.539 --> 00:22:39.099
How you doing?
457
00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:40.359
Good. What have you got for me, Bill?
458
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I want to say to Bill Dundee, I'm definitely a
459
00:22:42.380 --> 00:22:46.299
big fan. I've seen some of your work with Jerry Lawler,
460
00:22:46.380 --> 00:22:49.319
and you guys have had one hell of a feud
461
00:22:49.420 --> 00:22:53.400
forever and definitely a great chemistry and put on some
462
00:22:53.460 --> 00:22:55.869
very good matches. So I want to thank you and
463
00:22:55.920 --> 00:22:57.089
congratulate you on that.
464
00:22:58.819 --> 00:23:00.940
But I have a question. I read on.
465
00:23:00.900 --> 00:23:06.519
Another website that there is some legitimate heat between yourself
466
00:23:07.400 --> 00:23:11.880
and superstar Billy Graham, who apparently says that he was
467
00:23:11.940 --> 00:23:17.140
the original superstar and that you took the name three
468
00:23:17.220 --> 00:23:20.740
years later and that you never turned heads in airports
469
00:23:21.500 --> 00:23:22.099
like he did.
470
00:23:23.079 --> 00:23:24.619
So I'm not sure.
471
00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:27.299
Is there any legitimate heat between you two?
472
00:23:28.170 --> 00:23:30.670
I love Billy. He came into Memphis, and he was
473
00:23:30.710 --> 00:23:32.589
a bodybuilder. He was one of the first guys that
474
00:23:32.630 --> 00:23:34.670
brought the steroids into this business. I mean, he was
475
00:23:34.730 --> 00:23:37.470
a big steroid freak way back then. Not them that
476
00:23:37.490 --> 00:23:40.190
killed him, but I love Billy. He came in here
477
00:23:40.250 --> 00:23:42.650
and teamed him up with me. Now, this is in
478
00:23:42.670 --> 00:23:45.470
the South here, and the people were yelling to Billy,
479
00:23:45.750 --> 00:23:49.029
Tag Dundee, for God's sake. The way he worked was
480
00:23:49.069 --> 00:23:52.130
nothing like what we did here. So, yeah, and he's right.
481
00:23:52.390 --> 00:23:56.710
I didn't take the name Big Bad John in 1976.
482
00:23:56.710 --> 00:23:58.529
He was always a heel around here, and we made
483
00:23:58.569 --> 00:24:02.109
him the Bicentennial Baby. Went from a black leather coat
484
00:24:02.130 --> 00:24:03.950
and a steel helmet and all the things that he
485
00:24:04.019 --> 00:24:06.920
wore to Jerry Jarrett, dressed him up like Uncle Sam.
486
00:24:06.940 --> 00:24:09.119
He had one of them red, white, and blue outfits on,
487
00:24:09.440 --> 00:24:13.759
big top hat. John was already 6'2, 4, maybe. So
488
00:24:14.299 --> 00:24:16.869
he says, if I'm going to be the Bicentennial Baby
489
00:24:16.880 --> 00:24:19.390
and team me up with Bill Dundee, from now on,
490
00:24:19.750 --> 00:24:22.890
everybody call Bill Dundee Superstar, Bill Dundee. And that's how
491
00:24:22.930 --> 00:24:26.210
that was born. I never had no more... I called
492
00:24:26.250 --> 00:24:29.109
myself Mr. Excitement when I first come here. And I
493
00:24:29.130 --> 00:24:31.930
stole that from Pat Patterson because he used that in Australia.
494
00:24:32.390 --> 00:24:36.450
So I had no qualms about being superstar Bill Dundee.
495
00:24:36.910 --> 00:24:40.319
And Billy Graham, I don't even know when he started
496
00:24:40.450 --> 00:24:42.799
using it, but Dusty Rhodes was the American dream, and
497
00:24:42.819 --> 00:24:46.019
they both talked alike, and they both had the same gimmick. Superstar,
498
00:24:46.059 --> 00:24:48.359
the dream, I can understand that. And he may be right.
499
00:24:48.420 --> 00:24:50.440
He may have had it three years before me, but
500
00:24:50.480 --> 00:24:52.579
he couldn't work as good as me. I can guarantee
501
00:24:52.599 --> 00:24:55.519
you that. And he never sold that any building 52
502
00:24:55.519 --> 00:24:57.759
weeks in a year like Bill Dundee and Jerry Lawler did.
503
00:24:58.119 --> 00:25:00.240
So I like the old Billy. He's all right. But
504
00:25:00.940 --> 00:25:03.220
big old bodybuilder got in our business, and this was
505
00:25:03.460 --> 00:25:05.700
the start of the demise of our business. That's when
506
00:25:05.759 --> 00:25:08.140
all the roids and all the things started to get
507
00:25:08.200 --> 00:25:08.480
in here.
508
00:25:09.279 --> 00:25:10.170
Mark, any follow-up for us?
509
00:25:10.819 --> 00:25:13.359
No, I just found it rather entertaining. I didn't know
510
00:25:13.460 --> 00:25:14.900
how much of it was the work and how much
511
00:25:14.920 --> 00:25:17.029
of it was real. He just said that. he had
512
00:25:17.049 --> 00:25:20.130
the original pythons and that your arms pretty much looked
513
00:25:20.170 --> 00:25:23.359
like mosquito bites. So, I mean, I was, like, just
514
00:25:23.400 --> 00:25:26.160
kind of taken aback by it. So I didn't know
515
00:25:26.220 --> 00:25:28.960
what the validity was, if there was some real heat.
516
00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:31.779
But then he started talking.
517
00:25:32.039 --> 00:25:34.529
Mark, were those recent comments or just, you know, maybe
518
00:25:34.549 --> 00:25:34.980
years ago?
519
00:25:36.029 --> 00:25:38.089
No, they were actually pretty recent. I'm trying to remember
520
00:25:38.109 --> 00:25:39.869
the website that I got them off of. But I
521
00:25:39.890 --> 00:25:42.549
kind of found it, you know, like, wow, is there
522
00:25:42.589 --> 00:25:47.250
some legitimate heat? Because, you know. You wonder about, you know, obviously,
523
00:25:47.809 --> 00:25:51.710
what was his name? Like, Buddy Landell, you know, called himself.
524
00:25:51.390 --> 00:25:52.210
The Nature Boy.
525
00:25:52.269 --> 00:25:56.109
I mean, did he have Rick Flair's blessing on that?
526
00:25:56.130 --> 00:25:58.970
And did Rick Flair have the blessing from Buddy Rogers,
527
00:25:59.009 --> 00:25:59.309
you know?
528
00:25:59.809 --> 00:26:00.750
Right, yeah. Right.
529
00:26:00.849 --> 00:26:03.109
And then there was Nature Boy and Roger Kirby. There's
530
00:26:03.130 --> 00:26:05.990
been a lot of Nature Boys. And Superstar Graham and
531
00:26:06.029 --> 00:26:08.369
Superstar Dundee is the only two I know that actually
532
00:26:08.470 --> 00:26:10.190
used that name, that actually drew any money.
533
00:26:10.210 --> 00:26:10.869
Right.
534
00:26:11.599 --> 00:26:13.740
Billy was from up New York. I mean, he did
535
00:26:13.799 --> 00:26:17.140
all of, like, Vince loved big guys. So, hell, I
536
00:26:17.160 --> 00:26:18.799
don't know, man. There's no heat with me. I mean,
537
00:26:18.859 --> 00:26:22.410
I like Billy. And you're right. My arms compared to
538
00:26:22.450 --> 00:26:25.089
his is like little snakes. But anyway.
539
00:26:26.569 --> 00:26:27.549
All right.
540
00:26:27.589 --> 00:26:30.750
Whatever it's worth, mine was all natural. And everything I
541
00:26:30.769 --> 00:26:31.269
got works.
542
00:26:31.309 --> 00:26:31.869
There you go.
543
00:26:31.890 --> 00:26:36.220
Steroids just deteriorate your body. It all happened to Billy, right? Exactly.
544
00:26:36.720 --> 00:26:38.759
Thanks, Mark, so much. Appreciate it.
545
00:26:38.779 --> 00:26:39.339
Thanks, Bill.
546
00:26:40.059 --> 00:26:40.279
All right.
547
00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:44.109
All right, let's go to our next call here, and
548
00:26:44.269 --> 00:26:47.230
it's area code 202. Thanks for calling. Please state your
549
00:26:47.250 --> 00:26:47.829
name and where you're from.
550
00:26:47.849 --> 00:26:50.869
Hi, this is Anthony from Washington, D.C.
551
00:26:50.910 --> 00:26:52.970
Hey, Anthony, what have you got for Bill Dundee today?
552
00:26:54.230 --> 00:26:57.309
Hey, Bill, man, I'm like a big, big fan. I
553
00:26:57.369 --> 00:27:00.859
used to watch you on a weekly basis, not just
554
00:27:00.900 --> 00:27:03.700
with Memphis, but also the stuff you did down in.
555
00:27:03.640 --> 00:27:04.319
Texas, too.
556
00:27:04.980 --> 00:27:07.740
And I was just wondering, going through your career, I
557
00:27:07.759 --> 00:27:09.799
don't know if you keep up with, like, wrestling for
558
00:27:09.819 --> 00:27:12.000
the day and stuff, Who do you see out there
559
00:27:12.039 --> 00:27:15.759
that you can compare yourself to as far as in-ring
560
00:27:15.799 --> 00:27:17.900
skills and ring psychology?
561
00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:21.210
Bill, Anthony, we talked about at the beginning of the show,
562
00:27:21.250 --> 00:27:23.009
he doesn't actually follow wrestling today, and I knew that
563
00:27:23.049 --> 00:27:25.250
question would come up, and I mentioned that nobody should
564
00:27:25.269 --> 00:27:27.069
call and ask that because he doesn't follow wrestling today.
565
00:27:27.450 --> 00:27:30.029
But if you don't mind, Anthony, Bill, let me augment
566
00:27:30.069 --> 00:27:33.579
the question and just say from the last time you
567
00:27:33.599 --> 00:27:36.599
were following wrestling and around other wrestlers in the business,
568
00:27:38.029 --> 00:27:40.569
was there anybody there who you thought, who you really
569
00:27:40.609 --> 00:27:43.430
were high on and thought, this guy's got charisma and
570
00:27:43.490 --> 00:27:44.910
should definitely get a break?
571
00:27:46.190 --> 00:27:49.329
Yeah, I mean, when Ricky Morton started the Rock and
572
00:27:49.349 --> 00:27:51.490
Roll Express, he was just a young kid and he
573
00:27:51.509 --> 00:27:53.910
had a lot of charisma. Tommy Rich started. He had
574
00:27:53.950 --> 00:27:57.710
his third match with George Barnes and me when he
575
00:27:57.759 --> 00:27:59.839
first came in in 75. There's a lot of guys
576
00:27:59.900 --> 00:28:01.500
around in the good old days, but they all had
577
00:28:01.519 --> 00:28:04.410
psychology because somebody taught it to them. Eddie Marlin taught
578
00:28:04.450 --> 00:28:07.509
it to Tommy Rich in his backyard or in his lounge.
579
00:28:07.549 --> 00:28:09.309
He would say, Tommy, this is why we do this.
580
00:28:09.589 --> 00:28:11.730
This is what we do. A lot of guys like that.
581
00:28:11.769 --> 00:28:15.559
But in today's market, I haven't watched anybody, so I
582
00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:18.559
couldn't really tell you. But there's a lot of third-generation
583
00:28:18.579 --> 00:28:23.160
wrestlers in there, like Cody Rhodes wrestling, Dusty's Boy or whatever.
584
00:28:23.200 --> 00:28:25.279
You have all the other young guys.
585
00:28:25.519 --> 00:28:27.880
Teddy Biasi Jr. and Kurt Heddington.
586
00:28:27.900 --> 00:28:29.900
Teddy Biasi Jr. and all that. They all should have
587
00:28:29.980 --> 00:28:33.309
built-in skills. I mean, This is the thing about professional wrestling.
588
00:28:33.549 --> 00:28:36.730
When we did it, I don't know about today's category.
589
00:28:37.690 --> 00:28:39.990
And it's like a football player. The coach can bring
590
00:28:40.029 --> 00:28:42.099
it out in you. He can't put it into you.
591
00:28:42.390 --> 00:28:44.750
So if it isn't there, I don't give a damn
592
00:28:44.839 --> 00:28:47.440
what they do to you, how many wrestling lessons you have,
593
00:28:47.839 --> 00:28:50.089
what they say to you. If you don't have it,
594
00:28:50.400 --> 00:28:52.559
it ain't coming out in the ring. Most of the
595
00:28:52.599 --> 00:28:55.180
people that was great at this business, it was in
596
00:28:55.240 --> 00:28:57.349
there and somebody told them how to get it out.
597
00:28:57.640 --> 00:28:59.289
So they would say, hey, kid, you're doing this wrong.
598
00:28:59.349 --> 00:29:01.839
So you picked up on that. But if it isn't there,
599
00:29:02.119 --> 00:29:04.240
they can't do nothing with his shame, and it doesn't
600
00:29:04.259 --> 00:29:04.980
matter who you are.
601
00:29:05.640 --> 00:29:09.220
Yeah, yeah. Very good. Anthony, do you have any follow-up
602
00:29:09.259 --> 00:29:11.099
on your question or anything else to add?
603
00:29:12.900 --> 00:29:15.750
Yeah, well, since you're not really a follow-up to Dave's
604
00:29:15.809 --> 00:29:19.750
wrestling stuff, I don't know if y'all talked about this earlier,
605
00:29:20.049 --> 00:29:22.230
but do you plan to one day open up a
606
00:29:22.250 --> 00:29:24.509
school or something or train some guys nowadays?
607
00:29:25.569 --> 00:29:27.869
I had a school for 30 years. I was one
608
00:29:27.910 --> 00:29:29.970
of the first to do a wrestling, like an actual
609
00:29:30.029 --> 00:29:32.529
wrestler to do a wrestling school way back in the
610
00:29:32.569 --> 00:29:35.950
good old days. Yeah, we still do, but see, this
611
00:29:35.990 --> 00:29:39.109
business is monkey see, monkey do. So there's no Memphis
612
00:29:39.190 --> 00:29:42.579
television in the world. no regional TVs for the kids
613
00:29:42.630 --> 00:29:45.180
to watch it. So now they watch Vince and they
614
00:29:45.240 --> 00:29:48.759
watch TNA. So I'm assuming they want to be wrestlers
615
00:29:48.799 --> 00:29:51.839
because they saw somebody on TNA or Vince's show. But
616
00:29:51.900 --> 00:29:54.579
that isn't what we did or what I did. So,
617
00:29:55.240 --> 00:29:58.009
you know, the It's all a different kettle of fish,
618
00:29:58.049 --> 00:30:00.230
so I don't do near as much training as I
619
00:30:00.289 --> 00:30:02.170
used to do because there ain't near as much people
620
00:30:02.210 --> 00:30:05.109
out there wanting to do what I did. They want
621
00:30:05.150 --> 00:30:06.809
to do what the C-Bincy boys do.
622
00:30:07.789 --> 00:30:09.579
All right, Anthony, thanks for the call. Appreciate it.
623
00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:10.940
Thank you.
624
00:30:11.240 --> 00:30:14.660
You bet. All right, let's go to one more call,
625
00:30:14.700 --> 00:30:17.440
and then we'll take some e-mail questions and go to
626
00:30:17.460 --> 00:30:20.980
area code 708. 708, thanks for holding. Please state your
627
00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:23.190
name and where you're from. 708.
628
00:30:23.190 --> 00:30:24.759
708.
629
00:30:24.759 --> 00:30:27.210
Going once. Oh, there you go. Now I can hear you.
630
00:30:27.220 --> 00:30:28.920
All right.
631
00:30:28.940 --> 00:30:30.019
Step away from the phone.
632
00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:32.220
Sure. I was going to ask him a question. Did
633
00:30:32.240 --> 00:30:35.809
he ever wrestle Ric Flair? Tell me your name and
634
00:30:35.829 --> 00:30:36.410
where you're from, too.
635
00:30:37.190 --> 00:30:38.710
Oh, this is Boris from Chicago.
636
00:30:38.730 --> 00:30:40.309
There we go. Just had to get that out there.
637
00:30:40.349 --> 00:30:42.990
Got to make it official. Yeah, Bill, did you ever wrestle?
638
00:30:43.069 --> 00:30:43.430
Oh, yeah.
639
00:30:43.690 --> 00:30:44.349
How about Ric Flair?
640
00:30:45.809 --> 00:30:49.029
Never worked with him. The closest he ever came.
641
00:30:49.230 --> 00:30:49.390
Wow.
642
00:30:50.720 --> 00:30:52.950
I was the booker in Memphis, and we brought Flair
643
00:30:53.009 --> 00:30:56.150
in to work with a southern heavyweight champion. That was
644
00:30:56.549 --> 00:30:59.789
Lava's belt. Everybody knew he was the southern heavyweight champion.
645
00:31:00.170 --> 00:31:02.289
You came to Memphis, and you wrestled a world champion.
646
00:31:02.809 --> 00:31:07.240
So we did that, and I'm thinking, when Flair comes
647
00:31:07.299 --> 00:31:09.539
in here, there's two or three things we'll do. It'll
648
00:31:09.559 --> 00:31:14.460
either be a DQ. He can beat me. Or we'll
649
00:31:14.519 --> 00:31:17.339
throw it out. Or we'll do something. And that will
650
00:31:17.400 --> 00:31:20.269
suck for next Monday. And I don't have an opponent.
651
00:31:21.670 --> 00:31:25.839
So Memphis Television, unbeknownst to Ric Flair, we go out
652
00:31:25.940 --> 00:31:29.220
on the hour-and-a-half show we have, and Bill Dundee says,
653
00:31:29.240 --> 00:31:33.240
I am the Southern champion. I am wrestling Ric Flair
654
00:31:33.299 --> 00:31:36.309
on Monday night. So everybody's been talking about it for
655
00:31:36.349 --> 00:31:41.589
a week. So I am scheduled to wrestle Coco B. Ware.
656
00:31:42.269 --> 00:31:46.049
Coco just, nobody before, this is the Birdman and all that,
657
00:31:46.089 --> 00:31:49.250
he was just, you know. So it's a Southern title
658
00:31:49.269 --> 00:31:54.279
match on television. So we get this bright idea. Let's
659
00:31:54.359 --> 00:31:57.849
put Coco over, screw the belt, and he'll wrestle Ric Flair.
660
00:31:58.420 --> 00:32:00.269
And then you have an opponent for the next Monday
661
00:32:00.349 --> 00:32:03.589
after that because I am mad at Coco for cheating,
662
00:32:03.930 --> 00:32:08.809
I think. So that's what we did. Ric Flair showed up,
663
00:32:09.190 --> 00:32:12.569
got into the cab to come from the airport, and
664
00:32:12.690 --> 00:32:16.490
the cab driver said, Mr. Flair, I hope you beat
665
00:32:16.569 --> 00:32:21.170
Coco Ware tonight. And he said, who? He said, I'm
666
00:32:21.210 --> 00:32:24.690
wrestling Bill Dundee. He said, no, you're not. Bill Dundee
667
00:32:24.710 --> 00:32:28.170
got beat on Saturday morning. You are wrestling Coco Ware.
668
00:32:29.150 --> 00:32:33.869
He came into that building hollering and screaming and da-da-da-da-da.
669
00:32:34.430 --> 00:32:36.619
And they went to the ring, and he discovered what
670
00:32:36.660 --> 00:32:40.000
a worker Coco was, what a match they had. And
671
00:32:40.039 --> 00:32:42.200
Dusty Rhodes was there, so Dusty came down. We got
672
00:32:42.279 --> 00:32:44.960
all involved, and I had an opponent for the next Monday.
673
00:32:45.480 --> 00:32:47.619
So that is as close as I ever come to
674
00:32:47.859 --> 00:32:48.460
working with Rick.
675
00:32:49.119 --> 00:32:50.839
Wow, I would have thought for sure at some point
676
00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:53.559
you would have crossed paths with him in WCW too.
677
00:32:53.680 --> 00:32:58.019
So that's interesting. Just a reminder, you can reach us
678
00:32:58.200 --> 00:33:01.680
at wadekellerpostshow at gmail.com if you're interested in contributing to
679
00:33:01.700 --> 00:33:05.480
the flagship or wadekellerpostshow at gmail.com if you're interested in
680
00:33:05.680 --> 00:33:07.900
submitting a question or a topic or even a rant
681
00:33:08.069 --> 00:33:14.349
on the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Post Shows. Boris, thanks
682
00:33:14.369 --> 00:33:15.430
so much for the call. Good to hear from you.
683
00:33:15.470 --> 00:33:17.880
If anybody else wants to get on the phone lines
684
00:33:17.890 --> 00:33:20.319
and give us a question or a topic to discuss,
685
00:33:20.359 --> 00:33:26.400
the phone number is 646-721-9828. I'm Wade Keller, editor and
686
00:33:26.420 --> 00:33:29.880
publisher of the Pro Wrestling Torch newsletter and pwtorch.com. And
687
00:33:29.900 --> 00:33:32.240
pleased to be joined today by superstar Bill Dundee, a
688
00:33:32.259 --> 00:33:35.809
Memphis wrestling legend. And we're talking about a variety of subjects.
689
00:33:36.109 --> 00:33:39.269
And I want to give our emailers a chance here
690
00:33:39.329 --> 00:33:43.359
to chime in with the subject and the podcast. First
691
00:33:43.400 --> 00:33:47.579
question is from Mike H., who says, Bill, who was
692
00:33:47.599 --> 00:33:49.680
your favorite wrestler to work with in Memphis?
693
00:33:50.460 --> 00:33:53.289
Oh, well, it's got to be the King, because we
694
00:33:53.349 --> 00:33:56.329
did it more often and drew more money, and it
695
00:33:56.349 --> 00:33:58.509
was just the chemistry that clicked. So, I mean, it
696
00:33:58.569 --> 00:33:59.269
has to be Lawler.
697
00:34:00.529 --> 00:34:03.630
Give me two or three other names that you really liked,
698
00:34:04.539 --> 00:34:06.960
looked forward to wrestling, or that you respected the matches
699
00:34:06.980 --> 00:34:07.579
that you had with him.
700
00:34:08.730 --> 00:34:10.989
Oh, everybody could work back then, so you knew when
701
00:34:11.070 --> 00:34:12.530
it was going. If he was in the ring with
702
00:34:12.550 --> 00:34:14.289
me or in the ring with Jerry Lawler, he was
703
00:34:14.349 --> 00:34:16.500
either the main event or the semifinal, so you know
704
00:34:16.519 --> 00:34:19.079
that the gentleman could work. So it didn't matter. It
705
00:34:19.119 --> 00:34:21.320
was a tag match, and it was, say, Jerry Lawler
706
00:34:21.380 --> 00:34:25.539
and Bill Dundee against Joel LeDuc and Jean-Louis. I enjoyed that.
707
00:34:25.579 --> 00:34:27.699
They were two big monsters. They just beat on you,
708
00:34:27.719 --> 00:34:29.449
and you did your thing and made a comeback and
709
00:34:29.469 --> 00:34:32.550
did whatever. And the Rock and Roll Express was good, too.
710
00:34:32.849 --> 00:34:35.650
Ricky Morton and I did a program with Tommy Rich.
711
00:34:36.199 --> 00:34:38.519
I did with Jimmy Hart when he had the first family,
712
00:34:38.559 --> 00:34:41.380
Coco Ware and Bobby Eaton, managed by Jimmy Hart. Me
713
00:34:41.440 --> 00:34:44.500
and Lawler wrestled. Me and Steve Curran wrestled them. So
714
00:34:44.820 --> 00:34:47.619
I enjoyed it. That was the thing back then. If
715
00:34:47.719 --> 00:34:49.800
I wasn't having fun, I wasn't going to the ring.
716
00:34:50.280 --> 00:34:52.199
I don't know how it is today, but we had
717
00:34:52.239 --> 00:34:52.760
a lot of fun.
718
00:34:53.960 --> 00:34:57.059
Yep. Was there anybody you did not like working with?
719
00:34:57.139 --> 00:34:58.820
I mean, you say everybody back then was a good worker.
720
00:34:58.840 --> 00:35:00.900
Did you ever run across somebody who was just so
721
00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:04.960
green or so drunk or so uncooperative or too egotistical?
722
00:35:05.340 --> 00:35:07.139
Anything like that where you don't mind talking about it?
723
00:35:08.070 --> 00:35:09.659
Yeah, if they were so drunk, they wouldn't have worked
724
00:35:09.699 --> 00:35:11.570
with me. If they were more egotistical than me, they
725
00:35:11.610 --> 00:35:15.989
certainly wouldn't have worked with me. It wasn't hard when
726
00:35:16.010 --> 00:35:18.110
you're the booker in the office. It's not hard. I
727
00:35:18.150 --> 00:35:20.329
ain't working with him. But he never knows you say
728
00:35:20.369 --> 00:35:24.369
that because his name's never wrote alongside you. So I
729
00:35:24.429 --> 00:35:27.170
never really had to, somebody didn't book me against some
730
00:35:27.269 --> 00:35:30.780
idiot and say, hey, you go do this. No, I ain't. So, no.
731
00:35:31.659 --> 00:35:35.320
Yeah, good point, good point. It's nice to have that
732
00:35:35.360 --> 00:35:38.500
kind of power. Yes, it is. To not have to
733
00:35:38.519 --> 00:35:41.239
be put in that position. All right, another question from
734
00:35:41.300 --> 00:35:43.559
Mike H. He says, can you ask him what it
735
00:35:43.579 --> 00:35:45.340
was like to manage Steven Regal?
736
00:35:48.519 --> 00:35:49.119
Sir William?
737
00:35:49.579 --> 00:35:50.500
Yep, Sir William, yep.
738
00:35:51.619 --> 00:35:55.380
I hated that little drunk. But anyway, it was all
739
00:35:55.400 --> 00:35:58.340
right with Regal. He could wrestle, and, you know, he's...
740
00:35:59.570 --> 00:36:02.320
I never always cared to be the manager, and I
741
00:36:02.360 --> 00:36:04.659
never wanted to be an announcer. Lala liked to talk
742
00:36:04.719 --> 00:36:07.679
and all that. So that's how I never, ever pursued that.
743
00:36:08.079 --> 00:36:10.929
And the manager part, it was fun. I mean, Regal
744
00:36:10.969 --> 00:36:13.309
was working with, like, Ricky Steamboat, and he worked with
745
00:36:13.329 --> 00:36:15.590
Davey Boy Smith and all them guys. I mean, it
746
00:36:15.610 --> 00:36:17.050
was good. I enjoyed it.
747
00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:21.619
And Regal had a background in the carnivals in England
748
00:36:21.699 --> 00:36:25.000
and doing some wrestling there. Was that kind of a
749
00:36:25.019 --> 00:36:27.639
bond with you guys, that you both came from there
750
00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:29.840
and maybe had some something in common?
751
00:36:29.940 --> 00:36:32.559
I don't know if it was a bond or anything.
752
00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:34.559
I don't know. He was an Englishman. I was a Scotsman.
753
00:36:34.579 --> 00:36:37.780
We were both religion. Both religion when we got drunk
754
00:36:37.860 --> 00:36:40.530
or whatever. So, I mean, yeah. But I got along
755
00:36:40.550 --> 00:36:42.269
good with him. I mean, he did some silly things
756
00:36:42.329 --> 00:36:46.429
on airplanes after I left. But, you know, he was
757
00:36:46.469 --> 00:36:46.789
all right.
758
00:36:47.650 --> 00:36:47.789
Yeah.
759
00:36:49.119 --> 00:36:52.019
Uh... looking at the next question here and it's pretty
760
00:36:52.039 --> 00:36:54.840
similar question that the contract campbell but he adds to
761
00:36:54.929 --> 00:36:58.050
it uh... how do you end up managing regal uh...
762
00:36:58.210 --> 00:36:59.969
what what how did that come about with that your
763
00:37:00.010 --> 00:37:02.170
choice and uh... and who proposed.
764
00:37:01.869 --> 00:37:05.929
Yet but you've heard clear about bill wats saw him
765
00:37:05.969 --> 00:37:08.650
when he was the booker for it but when he
766
00:37:08.690 --> 00:37:11.699
went in and he brought me to over here and
767
00:37:11.739 --> 00:37:16.219
then bill got himself fired And don't let you think
768
00:37:16.260 --> 00:37:18.500
we fired Bill. Bill got himself fired. He wrote the
769
00:37:18.559 --> 00:37:20.820
contract and they had to pay him. But that's another story.
770
00:37:21.400 --> 00:37:24.449
So now you have poor Steve Regal, Dan Matthews, whatever
771
00:37:24.489 --> 00:37:27.510
you want, in America and doesn't got a friggin' clue
772
00:37:27.550 --> 00:37:31.110
how to work in America. I saw an interview he did.
773
00:37:31.130 --> 00:37:32.570
He stood out there with a blazer and a pair
774
00:37:32.590 --> 00:37:34.710
of slacks on. He put the B sign, Victor, in
775
00:37:34.750 --> 00:37:38.090
his head. Steven Regal. Yeah, that's going to draw you
776
00:37:38.110 --> 00:37:42.030
a lot of money. So anyway, that's the... And then
777
00:37:42.050 --> 00:37:44.019
we're just sitting talking. You know who the big dream is?
778
00:37:44.030 --> 00:37:46.730
He said, He said, he needs to be a lord, man.
779
00:37:47.170 --> 00:37:50.519
Lord Steven Regal, or some damn thing, an Englishman. He said, yeah,
780
00:37:50.539 --> 00:37:53.719
that's a good idea, baby. We need to put... What
781
00:37:53.739 --> 00:37:56.599
the hell was his name? Isn't that awful? Can't think of...
782
00:37:56.519 --> 00:37:59.780
I don't know, as good as Moe. That'll be good old.
783
00:37:59.800 --> 00:38:00.659
You can't think of things.
784
00:38:01.079 --> 00:38:02.639
I still... I can't... I can't remember.
785
00:38:02.659 --> 00:38:05.250
Larry Sabisco. He was going to put Larry Sabisco as
786
00:38:05.269 --> 00:38:07.650
the manager of the thing. I said, why would you
787
00:38:07.690 --> 00:38:10.809
do that? He has no English accent. He doesn't know
788
00:38:10.869 --> 00:38:14.630
nothing about lords and things that... Yeah, well, you do it.
789
00:38:14.929 --> 00:38:17.170
I said, well, okay. So I got the little hat
790
00:38:17.230 --> 00:38:19.130
and the glasses and the tails and all the other
791
00:38:19.150 --> 00:38:22.019
things and became Sir William, and so easy it was
792
00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:25.460
for that to happen. And I'm going to tell you,
793
00:38:26.420 --> 00:38:31.389
if they had pushed Regal and WCW, we would have
794
00:38:31.409 --> 00:38:35.389
got over. Now, what their big baby was then was
795
00:38:35.769 --> 00:38:37.630
WCW Saturday night. Remember that?
796
00:38:37.929 --> 00:38:38.989
Yep, yep, absolutely.
797
00:38:39.369 --> 00:38:41.670
Okay, that was the thing. If you got ratings on that,
798
00:38:41.710 --> 00:38:44.889
the judges you bought, you was getting over. So after
799
00:38:44.929 --> 00:38:47.110
the deal with it, so I suggested a booking meeting.
800
00:38:47.429 --> 00:38:49.409
Bischoff's there and all the brains are there. I said,
801
00:38:50.429 --> 00:38:54.309
let Regal Russell set Larry Sabisco. Nah, nobody want to
802
00:38:54.349 --> 00:38:59.050
watch that. Okay, well, we did it. Finally, Dusty says, okay,
803
00:38:59.070 --> 00:39:01.590
we'll do it. So we did it. The three weeks
804
00:39:01.630 --> 00:39:03.739
that they worked, the ratings were the best they had
805
00:39:03.780 --> 00:39:07.519
been in a long time. Because they could both wrestle.
806
00:39:07.880 --> 00:39:08.119
Yeah.
807
00:39:08.960 --> 00:39:12.360
And they made intense-type interviews, and it was just, you know,
808
00:39:13.539 --> 00:39:16.219
that's what being the good booker was all about. You
809
00:39:16.260 --> 00:39:18.550
saw two guys, and if they ever got together, they'd
810
00:39:18.570 --> 00:39:22.170
draw money. But by the time I got to WCW,
811
00:39:22.210 --> 00:39:24.530
Bischoff was doing his thing. He was the head honcho,
812
00:39:24.590 --> 00:39:27.070
and more Peru up his nose than you could ever
813
00:39:27.130 --> 00:39:28.929
poke a stick at. And I don't know what the
814
00:39:28.949 --> 00:39:31.960
hell he was looking at, but... anyway, the guy's still
815
00:39:31.980 --> 00:39:35.280
making money. He kisses big Hulk Hogan's backside now. So
816
00:39:35.300 --> 00:39:38.719
what can you say or do? But anyway, that was then,
817
00:39:38.760 --> 00:39:40.050
this is now.
818
00:39:40.090 --> 00:39:41.989
When you were around Eric, was there anything that you
819
00:39:42.010 --> 00:39:43.789
admired about him? Did you think he would end up...
820
00:39:43.750 --> 00:39:44.070
What the hell?
821
00:39:48.159 --> 00:39:51.519
I admired about him. Wow. Yeah, how he weaseled his
822
00:39:51.579 --> 00:39:53.340
way into the job. But Bill Watts put him in
823
00:39:53.380 --> 00:39:53.780
that job.
824
00:39:54.079 --> 00:39:54.159
Yeah.
825
00:39:54.179 --> 00:39:56.199
He'd come to me and he'd say, well, I got
826
00:39:56.219 --> 00:39:58.510
this guy. Nobody wanted to wear a suit. Adam wore
827
00:39:58.530 --> 00:40:00.619
a suit. But he was smarter than us all. He
828
00:40:00.639 --> 00:40:04.429
got around Bill Shaw and cut everybody's throat and all
829
00:40:04.469 --> 00:40:06.969
kinds of things. But anyway, don't get me started on that.
830
00:40:07.010 --> 00:40:08.690
I'll be using language and I'll let you use.
831
00:40:10.980 --> 00:40:13.610
Yeah, Bill, everybody listening, Bill asked me beforehand, can I
832
00:40:13.639 --> 00:40:15.849
swear when I'm on the show? I'm like, well, we
833
00:40:15.869 --> 00:40:18.670
try not to. He's like, all right, all right. So
834
00:40:18.969 --> 00:40:21.449
this is the restrained version of him, especially when we
835
00:40:21.489 --> 00:40:24.969
talk about people like Eric Bischoff. When you were part
836
00:40:24.989 --> 00:40:30.679
of WCW in that era, did that feel like wrestling
837
00:40:30.719 --> 00:40:33.400
had gone off the tracks, or were there still enough...
838
00:40:33.820 --> 00:40:37.019
people around that you respected and enough voices of reason
839
00:40:37.059 --> 00:40:39.980
that you thought, this is still wrestling as I liked
840
00:40:40.039 --> 00:40:42.380
it and knew it? Or were you kind of checking
841
00:40:42.420 --> 00:40:43.820
out a little bit, just kind of feeling like it
842
00:40:43.860 --> 00:40:44.659
was changing too much?
843
00:40:45.389 --> 00:40:47.670
Well, it was changing, but you had Greg Gagne there
844
00:40:47.690 --> 00:40:50.889
that knew about wrestling. You had Mike Graham, even Big Dust.
845
00:40:50.929 --> 00:40:53.070
But Big Dust was bad at looking after Dust, and
846
00:40:53.090 --> 00:40:55.210
he was the whole crew. So, yeah, there was guys
847
00:40:55.230 --> 00:40:58.230
there that understood it. But you wasn't allowed to do it.
848
00:40:59.110 --> 00:41:01.519
And when Hogan came in, it really went off the rails. So,
849
00:41:01.539 --> 00:41:04.480
I mean, what can you do? They were into showbiz,
850
00:41:04.519 --> 00:41:06.739
and we were trying to make it real, and we
851
00:41:06.760 --> 00:41:07.239
was losing.
852
00:41:07.840 --> 00:41:11.000
Yeah. Yeah. Very good. All right. Our phone number here
853
00:41:11.559 --> 00:41:17.159
is 646-721-9828. That's 646-721-9828. You can also email us questions
854
00:41:17.260 --> 00:41:19.400
live during the show. We've got 25 more minutes live,
855
00:41:19.420 --> 00:41:21.139
and then we'll probably do a few minutes in a
856
00:41:21.159 --> 00:41:24.099
VIP after show right after that. And you can email
857
00:41:24.119 --> 00:41:30.789
your questions to pwtorchlivecast at gmail.com. That's pwtorchlivecast at gmail.com.
858
00:41:33.099 --> 00:41:35.199
Admit it, you love Nick Barbatti when he co-hosts with
859
00:41:35.239 --> 00:41:37.000
me on the Wade Keller Post Shows. Well, now you
860
00:41:37.019 --> 00:41:39.300
can listen to him every week on the Nicky's Club,
861
00:41:39.340 --> 00:41:42.389
a VIP exclusive podcast. Here's Nick to tell you more.
862
00:41:42.530 --> 00:41:44.949
Hey, wrestling fans. It's Nick Barbatti, and I'm back with
863
00:41:44.969 --> 00:41:47.050
the Nicky's Club, the place where the family of Nicky's
864
00:41:47.110 --> 00:41:50.010
comes together for big laughs and sharp takes on WWE.
865
00:41:50.110 --> 00:41:53.010
From WrestleMania rumors to surprise returns, I got you covered.
866
00:41:53.170 --> 00:41:55.369
The Nicky's Club, where the wrestling feels like the coolest
867
00:41:55.409 --> 00:41:55.969
club in town.
868
00:41:56.210 --> 00:41:57.989
Nick Barbatti wants to be part of your pro wrestling
869
00:41:58.030 --> 00:42:02.360
life every week, so... Why not let him? GoVIP. PWTorch.com
870
00:42:02.639 --> 00:42:05.559
slash GoVIP for full details on signing up. We're compatible
871
00:42:05.579 --> 00:42:08.880
with Patreon, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and just about any other
872
00:42:09.019 --> 00:42:11.019
iOS or Android app out there. You can also stream
873
00:42:11.039 --> 00:42:14.059
directly from our ad-free VIP website. The Nicky's Club, waiting
874
00:42:14.079 --> 00:42:18.590
for you every week at PWTorch VIP. Let's go to
875
00:42:18.610 --> 00:42:22.849
our next caller, and the area code is 608. Thanks
876
00:42:22.869 --> 00:42:24.869
for calling 608. Please state your name and where you're from.
877
00:42:26.489 --> 00:42:27.210
Hey, Wade and Bill.
878
00:42:27.230 --> 00:42:28.690
It's Matt Fanatic from Wisconsin.
879
00:42:28.710 --> 00:42:30.679
How are you guys doing? Doing great. Great to hear
880
00:42:30.699 --> 00:42:31.099
from you, Matt.
881
00:42:32.699 --> 00:42:34.820
Yeah, Bill, I have a question, and I hope it's
882
00:42:34.860 --> 00:42:38.130
not too personal or anything. I think I may have
883
00:42:38.150 --> 00:42:39.269
heard you talk about it before.
884
00:42:39.289 --> 00:42:41.449
I had heard there was a story.
885
00:42:41.190 --> 00:42:45.210
About in Memphis with the outlaw promotion with the Savages.
886
00:42:46.050 --> 00:42:48.650
Is it true that you and Randy Savage got in
887
00:42:48.690 --> 00:42:51.679
a fight outside the convenience store? And I can't remember
888
00:42:51.699 --> 00:42:53.719
if you broke his jaw or he broke your jaw,
889
00:42:53.760 --> 00:42:55.219
but can we hear that story if it's true?
890
00:42:57.010 --> 00:43:00.110
There was no broken jars. It wasn't a convenience store.
891
00:43:00.130 --> 00:43:04.449
It was at a gym. And we had... It was
892
00:43:04.510 --> 00:43:08.389
a fight. I came out of the gym and I
893
00:43:08.429 --> 00:43:13.929
saw Thunderbolt Patterson walking up towards me. And my Cadillac
894
00:43:13.969 --> 00:43:17.090
was parked in the parking lot. So I just walked
895
00:43:17.110 --> 00:43:18.719
over to my Cadillac and I was leaning against it.
896
00:43:18.739 --> 00:43:22.019
And I hadn't seen both since we was in Australia. Thunderbolt,
897
00:43:22.039 --> 00:43:23.900
what the hell are you doing? So he's standing there
898
00:43:23.920 --> 00:43:26.869
talking to me. My back is the kind of to
899
00:43:26.889 --> 00:43:28.630
the back door if I'd just come out of the gym.
900
00:43:29.210 --> 00:43:31.750
So I'm just leaning against the Cadillac and I feel
901
00:43:31.769 --> 00:43:35.940
this wow and bam. What the hell? So Randy has
902
00:43:35.980 --> 00:43:38.639
run down the hill and sucker punched me in the
903
00:43:38.760 --> 00:43:40.519
eye of the top of the head, as you would say.
904
00:43:41.699 --> 00:43:45.920
And I said, Randy Savage, you... Well, I can't say
905
00:43:45.940 --> 00:43:47.860
the words. But anyway, I said a few words to
906
00:43:47.909 --> 00:43:50.110
him and we kind of just rolled around. None of
907
00:43:50.170 --> 00:43:53.550
us went off with feet. Nobody fell down. Nobody did nothing.
908
00:43:54.369 --> 00:43:54.550
So.
909
00:43:55.420 --> 00:43:56.980
I thought, if I get to the back of this car,
910
00:43:57.039 --> 00:44:01.639
I will restore order. So I just said, right, you goofy,
911
00:44:01.719 --> 00:44:03.340
and I called him a few names, and I started
912
00:44:03.360 --> 00:44:04.599
to walk to the back of the car, and he
913
00:44:04.639 --> 00:44:06.219
says to me, you've got a gun in that car.
914
00:44:06.280 --> 00:44:09.039
I said, you're damn right I do. And he went
915
00:44:09.079 --> 00:44:10.679
to the front of it and looked up onto the,
916
00:44:11.639 --> 00:44:14.989
because back then you had to, you couldn't conceal them,
917
00:44:15.010 --> 00:44:17.469
so you would lay them off the dashboard so anybody
918
00:44:17.510 --> 00:44:19.590
would see the gun in your apartment or whatever. But anyway,
919
00:44:19.909 --> 00:44:22.010
it was in the trunk, so there was no buttons
920
00:44:22.090 --> 00:44:23.650
in them days. It was a key, so I had
921
00:44:23.670 --> 00:44:26.030
to get the key, into the keyhole of the thing,
922
00:44:26.090 --> 00:44:29.530
turn the lock, lift the trunk up, then came the briefcase,
923
00:44:29.590 --> 00:44:32.380
and I thought, oh, God, I hope this thing ain't locked.
924
00:44:32.920 --> 00:44:34.920
So anyway, I flicked the two buttons, it ain't locked,
925
00:44:36.099 --> 00:44:38.000
flipped the lid up, get my hand in there, Randy
926
00:44:38.039 --> 00:44:40.340
has run around, back around the car, and he jumps
927
00:44:40.400 --> 00:44:44.360
on my back, and he's dead, Angelo, is on the
928
00:44:44.400 --> 00:44:46.340
side of the car, and he reaches in and pulls
929
00:44:46.420 --> 00:44:48.760
my right hand. When he pulled the right hand, the
930
00:44:48.800 --> 00:44:50.630
gun came out, and I cocked it and stuck it
931
00:44:50.670 --> 00:44:52.829
on his forehead and said, get your silly son off
932
00:44:52.869 --> 00:44:54.429
the back of my head, or I will kill you
933
00:44:54.449 --> 00:44:58.489
right now. And Randy went, oh, and he just jumped
934
00:44:58.550 --> 00:45:01.309
off my back and ran up the hill, and he said,
935
00:45:01.329 --> 00:45:04.619
the fight's over, the fight's over, and he just took off. Now,
936
00:45:04.860 --> 00:45:07.239
his old dear old dad's standing there like an idiot.
937
00:45:07.599 --> 00:45:10.599
Thunderbolt Patterson, the guy that actually knew Randy was going
938
00:45:10.619 --> 00:45:13.230
to do this. He's standing there. Now, Pez Watley, I
939
00:45:13.269 --> 00:45:17.289
always go along with Pez. He's away from the car.
940
00:45:17.309 --> 00:45:19.690
He doesn't do nothing. So I'm looking at them, and
941
00:45:19.710 --> 00:45:23.510
I said, now what? Because everybody just looks stupid. Nothing
942
00:45:23.550 --> 00:45:26.769
has happened. So they just walked away, got in their van,
943
00:45:26.809 --> 00:45:29.889
and drove off. So they went and got warned for
944
00:45:29.909 --> 00:45:32.070
me with assault with a deadly weapon. So now I
945
00:45:32.090 --> 00:45:36.199
wasn't doing nothing about it. So I have to go
946
00:45:36.219 --> 00:45:41.079
get warned for them. So we go to court. Randy
947
00:45:41.119 --> 00:45:45.199
has gone into fights with people in Nashville. The guy,
948
00:45:45.239 --> 00:45:47.110
the cops came and set the dog on him. The
949
00:45:47.159 --> 00:45:49.630
dog had bit him. All kinds of things. He got
950
00:45:49.670 --> 00:45:51.949
in a fight. The guy was going to buy everybody
951
00:45:51.989 --> 00:45:54.489
a coffee with the Waffle House. He said, I just
952
00:45:54.530 --> 00:45:58.550
got married, Randy. We'll get to applying. The guy nailed
953
00:45:58.570 --> 00:46:01.079
him again to a fight. So he'd had a lot
954
00:46:01.780 --> 00:46:05.519
of warrants set in Nashville. So anyway, we go to court.
955
00:46:07.079 --> 00:46:12.039
Angelo sends Who the hell was it? Saul Weingroff. He
956
00:46:12.159 --> 00:46:13.880
used to be a manager here, so they'd known one
957
00:46:13.940 --> 00:46:16.820
another for years. So he works in the jail. So
958
00:46:16.860 --> 00:46:18.909
he sends Saul up and says to me, Bill, we're
959
00:46:18.929 --> 00:46:21.710
going to go Broadway with this. I ain't going Broadway
960
00:46:21.750 --> 00:46:26.690
with nobody. I'm winning this. So my lawyer's there. They're
961
00:46:26.769 --> 00:46:28.630
all there. There's 10 of them. The whole crew's sitting
962
00:46:28.650 --> 00:46:32.389
in the court. So he comes back. Then Angelo finally
963
00:46:32.409 --> 00:46:34.579
walks back. He says, oh, you don't even know. I said, well,
964
00:46:34.619 --> 00:46:36.400
you should have thought of that two months ago or
965
00:46:36.440 --> 00:46:38.159
three months ago, whatever it was we did to all
966
00:46:38.179 --> 00:46:41.550
of them. So finally, I called Jared. I said, hey, man,
967
00:46:41.829 --> 00:46:43.469
there's no cell phones in them days. You've got to
968
00:46:43.510 --> 00:46:45.230
find a quarter. You've got to go to the damn thing.
969
00:46:45.289 --> 00:46:46.710
You've got to find a dime.
970
00:46:46.730 --> 00:46:48.550
To make a phone call, a dime or whatever the
971
00:46:48.570 --> 00:46:51.769
hell it was. So anyway, he said, well, maybe the
972
00:46:51.809 --> 00:46:54.309
best thing. I said, well, okay, here we go. So
973
00:46:54.889 --> 00:46:57.800
I go back and say, okay, we're going Broadway. So
974
00:46:57.840 --> 00:46:59.860
we approach the bench. We throw it out. They drop
975
00:46:59.900 --> 00:47:01.199
their charges. I drop mine.
976
00:47:01.980 --> 00:47:02.659
We all go home.
977
00:47:03.780 --> 00:47:07.510
And I'll be damned if they don't hire him. But
978
00:47:07.530 --> 00:47:09.750
that's another story. You had to work in Memphis to
979
00:47:09.769 --> 00:47:10.750
know all that.
980
00:47:11.750 --> 00:47:12.510
Yeah.
981
00:47:12.570 --> 00:47:14.730
But I have never worked with Randy Savage apart from
982
00:47:14.750 --> 00:47:16.610
that in the parking lot, and I have never really
983
00:47:16.630 --> 00:47:18.570
been on a card with him apart from that. So
984
00:47:18.610 --> 00:47:21.010
that was, you know.
985
00:47:21.050 --> 00:47:23.010
You were never on the same wrestling card as Randy Savage?
986
00:47:23.889 --> 00:47:24.070
Nope.
987
00:47:24.929 --> 00:47:25.780
Oh, wow, that's interesting.
988
00:47:26.389 --> 00:47:27.380
Yeah. Because I left.
989
00:47:27.960 --> 00:47:28.960
Yeah, yeah.
990
00:47:29.519 --> 00:47:34.059
Well, maybe I was leaving because I remember... Jamie and
991
00:47:34.099 --> 00:47:37.000
me was walking down, and I told Randy, I said,
992
00:47:37.139 --> 00:47:39.280
I took your bad shot, but you've never took mine.
993
00:47:39.300 --> 00:47:41.929
I don't know if that stuck with him or whatever,
994
00:47:41.949 --> 00:47:44.409
but he was walking down the hall in Memphis, and
995
00:47:44.469 --> 00:47:46.269
I was coming up, and Jamie was just a little
996
00:47:46.309 --> 00:47:50.159
bitty fellow, my boy, and he said, he's himself. Randy
997
00:47:50.199 --> 00:47:51.840
turned his back to the wall, and he stood with
998
00:47:51.880 --> 00:47:53.340
his back to the wall, and he just kind of
999
00:47:53.360 --> 00:47:56.610
looked at me. And Jimmy says, you're the guy that
1000
00:47:56.659 --> 00:47:59.780
sucker punched my dad. And Randy did the mushroom man thing. No,
1001
00:47:59.880 --> 00:48:02.320
heavy drugs, kid. Heavy drugs. We don't need to talk
1002
00:48:02.360 --> 00:48:05.539
about this no more, man. Heavy drugs. I said, well,
1003
00:48:07.320 --> 00:48:08.340
how are you? He said.
1004
00:48:08.360 --> 00:48:12.940
And did I miss it? What triggered Randy coming at
1005
00:48:12.980 --> 00:48:13.900
you like that initially?
1006
00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:15.039
He's goofy.
1007
00:48:15.920 --> 00:48:16.480
Okay.
1008
00:48:16.500 --> 00:48:16.940
He was.
1009
00:48:17.219 --> 00:48:21.260
I mean, we're taking pills, smoking dope, doing it. I mean,
1010
00:48:21.679 --> 00:48:24.159
who knows? And I had a pair of tights somebody
1011
00:48:24.199 --> 00:48:26.880
gave me. And it said Macho Man on the back.
1012
00:48:26.900 --> 00:48:28.900
And I wore them on Memphis TV, and he seen them.
1013
00:48:29.079 --> 00:48:31.139
And he called me up. Hey, Randy, you over here?
1014
00:48:31.199 --> 00:48:33.130
I said, oh, Randy, this is the work, man. Somebody
1015
00:48:33.150 --> 00:48:37.969
give me them tights. And he just, who knows? They
1016
00:48:37.989 --> 00:48:41.190
were trying to take over our territory. They came into
1017
00:48:41.409 --> 00:48:44.869
Nashville and Memphis and all of the tribe. We never
1018
00:48:44.909 --> 00:48:48.329
bothered them. They gave us more publicity than we got
1019
00:48:48.389 --> 00:48:51.019
on our own damn TV. He would talk about Lawler
1020
00:48:51.039 --> 00:48:54.239
and Dundee on every show. So he even went on
1021
00:48:54.260 --> 00:48:56.639
his TV and said, Bill Dunn, I hit Bill Dunn,
1022
00:48:56.679 --> 00:48:58.809
broke his jaw, and I was on the next TV
1023
00:48:58.829 --> 00:49:02.530
the Saturday morning on Memphis that more people see and
1024
00:49:02.610 --> 00:49:04.230
all the things. I said, hey, there's a guy, an
1025
00:49:04.349 --> 00:49:06.769
idiot out here talking about breaking my jaw. Does it
1026
00:49:06.809 --> 00:49:09.409
look like it's broke? Here I am. I said, now,
1027
00:49:09.429 --> 00:49:10.969
if you want to know about the fight, there was
1028
00:49:11.050 --> 00:49:13.349
four big ones. I made it all this funny. Four
1029
00:49:13.389 --> 00:49:15.769
big monsters jumped on me, and I hit this one
1030
00:49:15.809 --> 00:49:17.610
and knocked this one out, blah, blah, blah.
1031
00:49:18.010 --> 00:49:18.550
Not a mark.
1032
00:49:18.590 --> 00:49:20.690
I said, you should see that. not a mark on
1033
00:49:20.710 --> 00:49:23.949
them but you know that kind of thing but it
1034
00:49:24.030 --> 00:49:26.280
turned a little bone up in my eye and it
1035
00:49:26.420 --> 00:49:30.480
cost three thousand dollars to fix it back then and
1036
00:49:31.900 --> 00:49:34.320
that was all you could see but you couldn't tell
1037
00:49:34.400 --> 00:49:36.619
it had happened so when I came on the TV
1038
00:49:37.059 --> 00:49:39.579
there was no problem people thought that Randy Savage is.
1039
00:49:39.559 --> 00:49:44.190
Goofy Great story, and I know you've got a chapter
1040
00:49:44.250 --> 00:49:45.889
in your book coming up later this year on that.
1041
00:49:46.090 --> 00:49:48.530
Oh, yeah, and the real words are in it. Yeah,
1042
00:49:48.570 --> 00:49:50.460
the mother of.
1043
00:49:50.960 --> 00:49:52.860
Unfiltered, unfiltered, the unfiltered version.
1044
00:49:52.880 --> 00:49:53.219
Yeah.
1045
00:49:53.840 --> 00:49:58.480
Matt, do you have any follow-up for Bill? No, not really.
1046
00:49:58.679 --> 00:49:59.909
Thanks for clearing that up, Bill.
1047
00:50:00.469 --> 00:50:01.150
Love the story.
1048
00:50:01.349 --> 00:50:03.510
And just a follow-up. You were talking about your.
1049
00:50:03.429 --> 00:50:04.829
Time at WCW before.
1050
00:50:05.349 --> 00:50:07.110
What is maybe the worst.
1051
00:50:08.920 --> 00:50:12.619
Heard from a higher-up in WCW about a booking idea.
1052
00:50:12.719 --> 00:50:13.320
Like, were you there?
1053
00:50:13.780 --> 00:50:15.340
I tuned in late. Were you there during the Jim
1054
00:50:15.380 --> 00:50:18.719
Hurd days? Like, anything worse than the hunchbacks and the ding-dongs?
1055
00:50:20.860 --> 00:50:22.219
Ah, that was before me, brother.
1056
00:50:24.159 --> 00:50:27.000
Do you have any memories of really bad ideas, though,
1057
00:50:27.300 --> 00:50:28.480
while you were in WCW?
1058
00:50:29.460 --> 00:50:31.699
Well, they were all supposed to be. No, I mean,
1059
00:50:31.780 --> 00:50:34.840
you know, Hogan was there by then, and Bischoff was there,
1060
00:50:34.880 --> 00:50:38.380
and Dusty, and Mike Graham, and Greg Gagnon. Larry Sabichka,
1061
00:50:38.500 --> 00:50:41.159
all them guys were in the wrestling business the way
1062
00:50:41.239 --> 00:50:44.110
I knew it. But you would get overruled by some
1063
00:50:44.150 --> 00:50:46.949
of the things. No, we were pretty well doing the
1064
00:50:46.989 --> 00:50:51.070
best we could. I mean, you book Steven Riegel against
1065
00:50:51.150 --> 00:50:52.969
Ricky Steamboat, you're going to have a hell of a match.
1066
00:50:53.750 --> 00:50:56.090
You book Steamboat against Rick Player, you're going to have
1067
00:50:56.130 --> 00:50:58.340
a hell of a match. So there was a lot
1068
00:50:58.360 --> 00:51:01.719
of guys who could work. Rock and roll was there. No,
1069
00:51:02.360 --> 00:51:05.760
we never... They did some goofy stuff, you're right, but
1070
00:51:05.820 --> 00:51:06.559
that's what they wanted.
1071
00:51:07.750 --> 00:51:09.969
Yep. Very good. Matt, thanks for the call. We had
1072
00:51:09.989 --> 00:51:11.989
some background noise, so I had to put you on hold,
1073
00:51:12.030 --> 00:51:13.590
but we'll move on to our next caller here. If
1074
00:51:13.630 --> 00:51:15.170
anybody else wants to get in line on the phone, thanks.
1075
00:51:15.190 --> 00:51:22.409
The number is 646-721-9828. 646-721-9828. We've got about 15 minutes
1076
00:51:22.449 --> 00:51:26.079
left in the live portion of the show, and then
1077
00:51:26.099 --> 00:51:27.380
we're going to do a little bit of a VIP
1078
00:51:27.440 --> 00:51:30.099
after show. Bruce Mitchell, 20-year Torch columnist, has sent me
1079
00:51:30.139 --> 00:51:32.719
some questions that he wanted me to ask Bill. He
1080
00:51:32.760 --> 00:51:34.099
was going to try to join us for the interview,
1081
00:51:34.139 --> 00:51:37.510
but he had an obligation come up, so... I've got
1082
00:51:37.530 --> 00:51:38.949
some questions from him that if we don't get to
1083
00:51:38.969 --> 00:51:40.730
them here during the main hour, we'll spend a few
1084
00:51:40.750 --> 00:51:44.329
minutes afterwards addressing those after we go off the air live.
1085
00:51:44.349 --> 00:51:48.030
And that'll be a VIP member exclusive. You know that
1086
00:51:48.070 --> 00:51:50.289
last segment you're just listening to and the next one
1087
00:51:50.309 --> 00:51:52.590
that you're waiting to listen to? Those can be one
1088
00:51:52.650 --> 00:51:55.030
second apart with a VIP membership. You can unlock our
1089
00:51:55.050 --> 00:51:59.710
commercial-free versions of our shows. PWTorch.com slash GoVIP tells you
1090
00:51:59.730 --> 00:52:04.260
how to do it. That's PWTorch.com. slash GoVIP. Options exist
1091
00:52:04.320 --> 00:52:08.239
within the Apple Podcast app using your Apple account, through Patreon,
1092
00:52:08.260 --> 00:52:10.070
which by the way, you can sync up with Spotify,
1093
00:52:10.360 --> 00:52:12.929
or just about any iOS or Android app. With a
1094
00:52:12.949 --> 00:52:16.170
full VIP membership, you can customize the feed for individual
1095
00:52:16.230 --> 00:52:20.309
shows and clusters of shows and themes. Go to pwtorch.com
1096
00:52:20.349 --> 00:52:23.219
slash GoVIP for full details on all the options to
1097
00:52:23.280 --> 00:52:27.099
listen commercial free. And with upper tier options, unlock our
1098
00:52:27.199 --> 00:52:30.039
VIP exclusive podcasts that run throughout the week every week.
1099
00:52:31.949 --> 00:52:34.590
Let's go next to area code 210. Thanks so much
1100
00:52:34.610 --> 00:52:37.590
for holding. Please state your name and where you're.
1101
00:52:37.389 --> 00:52:39.849
From, 210.
1102
00:52:40.030 --> 00:52:44.130
Hey, how's it going this afternoon? My name is Daryl.
1103
00:52:44.150 --> 00:52:46.690
Yep, Daryl, go ahead with your question or comment for Bill. Hey,
1104
00:52:46.710 --> 00:52:47.309
how's it going, guys?
1105
00:52:48.210 --> 00:52:49.869
I got to apologize. I didn't know you were going
1106
00:52:49.889 --> 00:52:51.610
to have a guest today. I already had a question
1107
00:52:51.630 --> 00:52:56.210
for you, Wade. My question for you was maybe two
1108
00:52:56.230 --> 00:52:58.210
or three weeks ago you went in, not in depth,
1109
00:52:58.250 --> 00:53:02.610
but you gave a quick analysis of how MMA actually
1110
00:53:02.650 --> 00:53:04.489
got started in Japan.
1111
00:53:04.610 --> 00:53:05.820
Yeah.
1112
00:53:05.860 --> 00:53:08.460
And I got a buddy listening right now, and he
1113
00:53:08.480 --> 00:53:12.199
didn't really believe you, or I'm sorry, me rather. So
1114
00:53:12.599 --> 00:53:14.699
I just wanted you to kind of say that out
1115
00:53:14.739 --> 00:53:15.139
loud again.
1116
00:53:15.860 --> 00:53:18.579
Well, I'll tell you what. If you know what show
1117
00:53:18.639 --> 00:53:20.519
it was on, we've got a lot of background noise,
1118
00:53:20.539 --> 00:53:21.880
so I'm going to put you on hold. Daryl, you
1119
00:53:21.920 --> 00:53:23.420
can still hear me, but I can't hear you because
1120
00:53:23.440 --> 00:53:25.760
of the traffic noise, I think. Just because we had
1121
00:53:25.780 --> 00:53:27.539
Bill Dundee on, I'm not going to run down all
1122
00:53:27.559 --> 00:53:29.650
the details again. If you remember what show it was, though,
1123
00:53:29.670 --> 00:53:32.260
it is in the archives. Any past shows, by the way,
1124
00:53:32.289 --> 00:53:37.710
you can listen to at blogtalkradio.com slash pro-wrestling-torch. I mean,
1125
00:53:38.469 --> 00:53:43.110
very briefly, MMA evolved out of Japan. I mean, there
1126
00:53:43.130 --> 00:53:46.769
was Nobuhiko Takada, who had a tough man reputation and
1127
00:53:46.809 --> 00:53:50.409
had worked matches in main events when they started featuring
1128
00:53:50.639 --> 00:53:54.900
a stiffer style and semi-shoots on the undercard. There was UWFI,
1129
00:53:54.940 --> 00:53:57.719
which kind of had that reputation for being, quote, strong style.
1130
00:53:58.420 --> 00:54:02.880
Pancrase began and started featuring full-fledged real fights, but there
1131
00:54:02.900 --> 00:54:05.360
was some working that went on on top. Pride was
1132
00:54:05.440 --> 00:54:09.039
created with the idea being to have all real fights,
1133
00:54:09.460 --> 00:54:11.610
but to book them in a way that their top
1134
00:54:11.659 --> 00:54:14.789
stars that they wanted to draw would be in the
1135
00:54:14.929 --> 00:54:17.250
optimum position by the end of the tournament. So there's
1136
00:54:17.289 --> 00:54:19.650
a little bit of kind of a working going on
1137
00:54:19.670 --> 00:54:22.309
or a manipulating going on at that point, and certainly
1138
00:54:22.349 --> 00:54:25.199
Sakuraba was one of the great beneficiaries of that. But
1139
00:54:25.239 --> 00:54:27.840
while that all was going on in Brazil, the Gracie
1140
00:54:27.880 --> 00:54:30.320
family said, let's start holding some tournaments. We think jiu-jitsu
1141
00:54:30.340 --> 00:54:32.429
is better than anything. and it'll hold up in a
1142
00:54:32.449 --> 00:54:35.769
tournament format. And let's start submitting guys and showing people
1143
00:54:35.809 --> 00:54:37.989
around the world and also make some money for ourselves
1144
00:54:38.030 --> 00:54:40.010
on pay-per-view. And so they got together with Bob Meyerowitz
1145
00:54:40.070 --> 00:54:43.909
and Semaphore Entertainment and produced tournaments which were 100% legit,
1146
00:54:44.530 --> 00:54:47.010
and the Gracies won. And while that was going on,
1147
00:54:47.219 --> 00:54:50.199
you know, there were the predecessors to Pride and eventually Pride. So,
1148
00:54:50.219 --> 00:54:51.800
I mean, that's kind of the short version, but, I mean,
1149
00:54:51.860 --> 00:54:54.800
MMA comes, I mean, you can Wikipedia it, you can
1150
00:54:54.840 --> 00:54:56.920
read the history of it. It really did sprout up
1151
00:54:56.960 --> 00:55:01.150
from pro wrestling in Japan as... in the Japan culture,
1152
00:55:01.210 --> 00:55:04.590
people wanted to, uh, have that aura of legitimacy by
1153
00:55:04.630 --> 00:55:07.429
bringing in real MMA fighters and eventually paying them to
1154
00:55:07.469 --> 00:55:09.769
do a job so that, uh, you know, if you're
1155
00:55:09.789 --> 00:55:11.170
the very, very top guy, you'd want to bring in
1156
00:55:11.190 --> 00:55:13.670
somebody who won legit fights and then do a work
1157
00:55:13.730 --> 00:55:15.829
fight to show, you know, to build your image up.
1158
00:55:16.210 --> 00:55:20.389
It was just a new form of working. I would say, uh, Daryl, anyway,
1159
00:55:20.409 --> 00:55:22.070
thanks for the question. Hope that helped. But like I said,
1160
00:55:22.090 --> 00:55:24.719
you can go back and listen to the original answer too. And, uh,
1161
00:55:24.739 --> 00:55:27.380
there's some pretty good documentation on there on, on all
1162
00:55:27.400 --> 00:55:31.670
of that. Um, Next question from VIP, and this is
1163
00:55:31.710 --> 00:55:33.449
kind of a follow-up, Bill, on what you said earlier.
1164
00:55:33.750 --> 00:55:36.989
This is somebody who lives in Australia. His name is Greg,
1165
00:55:37.389 --> 00:55:38.579
and he says, I was hoping you could tell me
1166
00:55:38.619 --> 00:55:40.699
a bit more about what the Australian wrestling circuit was
1167
00:55:40.780 --> 00:55:44.099
like when you started in the 60s before moving to
1168
00:55:44.119 --> 00:55:46.340
the States. I know you covered it earlier, Bill, but
1169
00:55:46.780 --> 00:55:48.340
for the sake of Greg, do you have anything else
1170
00:55:48.360 --> 00:55:50.639
you want to add to what you said about the territory?
1171
00:55:50.699 --> 00:55:53.900
And maybe just some things that maybe the average fan,
1172
00:55:53.940 --> 00:55:55.940
who even knows a lot about wrestling in this country...
1173
00:55:56.199 --> 00:56:00.059
wouldn't even think would be different but was about wrestling
1174
00:56:00.079 --> 00:56:02.559
in the 60s on another continent, in another country? Was
1175
00:56:02.579 --> 00:56:05.760
there anything fundamentally different about the way the shows were
1176
00:56:05.800 --> 00:56:06.099
put on?
1177
00:56:07.090 --> 00:56:09.650
Well, they technically were in the Australian days. We used
1178
00:56:09.670 --> 00:56:12.869
to have rounds. But when Jim Barnett came and he
1179
00:56:12.889 --> 00:56:16.210
brought Georgia Championship Wrestling, but he just called it Championship
1180
00:56:16.250 --> 00:56:19.050
Wrestling when he brought it to Australia, and he brought
1181
00:56:19.110 --> 00:56:21.699
Mark Loon and King Curtis and Skull Murphy, it was
1182
00:56:21.739 --> 00:56:24.539
no different than what you were doing in Atlanta, Georgia.
1183
00:56:24.929 --> 00:56:27.780
It was just done in Australia. But the actual Australian
1184
00:56:27.820 --> 00:56:30.960
circuit was different because we wrestled rounds just like they
1185
00:56:31.000 --> 00:56:33.420
did in England. And we wrestled a lot more, not
1186
00:56:33.440 --> 00:56:36.079
so much kicking and punching. If you helped somebody over,
1187
00:56:36.099 --> 00:56:39.579
you had to stand back, let him up. So when
1188
00:56:39.639 --> 00:56:42.309
Barnett came and he brought the American style, it took off.
1189
00:56:42.369 --> 00:56:44.889
Killer Kowalski, man, he was a household name for 10
1190
00:56:44.889 --> 00:56:48.170
years in Australia. And, you know, Skull Murphy and Brut Bernard,
1191
00:56:48.190 --> 00:56:51.570
they were the top tag team. And it was kicking, punching, gouging,
1192
00:56:51.610 --> 00:56:54.280
the same stuff. Gary Hart was the manager. And it
1193
00:56:54.300 --> 00:56:56.679
was the same. Dusty Rhodes and Dick Murdoch was there.
1194
00:56:57.340 --> 00:57:02.059
So we were wrestling in the clubs doing holds and rounds,
1195
00:57:02.420 --> 00:57:05.039
and we would come and do jobs on the TV
1196
00:57:05.059 --> 00:57:07.920
for Barnett in Australia and, you know, in Sydney and
1197
00:57:07.960 --> 00:57:11.070
Melbourne and Adelaide, and they'd fly you all over. And
1198
00:57:11.110 --> 00:57:12.010
it was the same.
1199
00:57:15.309 --> 00:57:18.690
We just got another question by email from Anthony who
1200
00:57:18.809 --> 00:57:21.670
says– I want to know how Bill feels about female
1201
00:57:21.750 --> 00:57:24.210
managers in the wrestling business. Kind of an offbeat question,
1202
00:57:24.250 --> 00:57:28.099
but managers, there were valets back in the day, but
1203
00:57:28.159 --> 00:57:31.500
now there's actually female managers. Maybe kind of parlay that
1204
00:57:31.519 --> 00:57:33.320
a little bit into a broader answer, too, just about
1205
00:57:33.679 --> 00:57:35.659
the way women were treated in the wrestling industry, both
1206
00:57:35.719 --> 00:57:38.539
as wrestlers and as valets in your day, and how
1207
00:57:38.559 --> 00:57:40.929
you felt about them being involved in the industry.
1208
00:57:42.090 --> 00:57:44.090
Well, most of the women worked for Lula back in
1209
00:57:44.110 --> 00:57:48.219
the day. She trained them, she got them booked out,
1210
00:57:48.320 --> 00:57:50.590
and she did most of the good wrestle. The Wendy Richters,
1211
00:57:50.630 --> 00:57:52.889
the Princess Little Doves and all them, they could all wrestle.
1212
00:57:53.849 --> 00:57:56.230
And we would bring them in in the summertime, we
1213
00:57:56.250 --> 00:57:58.329
would bring the midgets in just for the kids who
1214
00:57:58.349 --> 00:58:00.289
were out of school, so you'd give them something different.
1215
00:58:00.730 --> 00:58:02.969
So you'd bring the girls in, you'd bring the midgets in,
1216
00:58:03.639 --> 00:58:05.619
and the valets, like if you had a gimmick like
1217
00:58:05.679 --> 00:58:08.420
Gorgeous George or Gorgeous George Jr. and they had the
1218
00:58:08.460 --> 00:58:12.260
valet mean something, and Adrian Streetworthy had Miss Linda, the
1219
00:58:12.320 --> 00:58:13.599
valet was part of that act.
1220
00:58:14.000 --> 00:58:14.519
But today.
1221
00:58:15.150 --> 00:58:17.670
They have guys bring their sister, their mother, their brother,
1222
00:58:17.750 --> 00:58:20.690
their grandfather to the ring just because they can. Not
1223
00:58:20.730 --> 00:58:23.739
so much for Vince. I'm talking about on the local circuit. Now,
1224
00:58:24.050 --> 00:58:26.739
the ones that work for Vince or TNA, they all
1225
00:58:26.760 --> 00:58:29.179
look more like pole dancers than they do wrestlers. So
1226
00:58:29.579 --> 00:58:31.340
I don't really know what they do with them or
1227
00:58:31.420 --> 00:58:33.659
do I care. But, I mean, it's a whole different thing.
1228
00:58:34.000 --> 00:58:36.460
Do I think any of them could have beat Lula? No.
1229
00:58:36.739 --> 00:58:38.860
Do I think any of them could have beat Randy Richter?
1230
00:58:38.880 --> 00:58:39.219
No.
1231
00:58:39.239 --> 00:58:39.300
No.
1232
00:58:40.570 --> 00:58:42.889
It's all different to come to the ring in high-heeled shoes.
1233
00:58:42.909 --> 00:58:44.219
What the hell are you going to do in six-inch
1234
00:58:44.239 --> 00:58:45.019
high-heeled shoes?
1235
00:58:45.079 --> 00:58:45.340
Nothing.
1236
00:58:46.360 --> 00:58:48.619
So I don't, and like I said, I don't watch
1237
00:58:48.659 --> 00:58:50.460
it today, so I don't really know much about it,
1238
00:58:50.500 --> 00:58:53.880
but it's a little different than when I did it.
1239
00:58:53.900 --> 00:58:56.219
I mean, the women were respected. They could wrestle. Moolah
1240
00:58:56.239 --> 00:58:59.510
could wrestle, you know. And it was a man's sport,
1241
00:58:59.590 --> 00:59:01.750
and always will be a man's sport, but that's just
1242
00:59:01.789 --> 00:59:03.989
how it was. But there was women in it, and
1243
00:59:04.010 --> 00:59:05.250
they made money back in the day.
1244
00:59:06.869 --> 00:59:09.070
This is your last chance to ask Bill Dundee a question.
1245
00:59:09.090 --> 00:59:14.960
The number to call is 646-721-9828. Last week, Bill, I
1246
00:59:15.000 --> 00:59:17.260
had Jerry Jarrett on the show. Obviously, you worked for
1247
00:59:17.300 --> 00:59:20.920
him for a long time. Any thoughts on Jerry? And
1248
00:59:21.099 --> 00:59:22.940
I preface this by saying I've learned a lot about
1249
00:59:22.960 --> 00:59:25.920
wrestling from Jerry. I've done multiple Torch Talks with him,
1250
00:59:26.059 --> 00:59:28.650
spent hours on the phone with him. A lot that
1251
00:59:28.670 --> 00:59:31.570
I admire about him, and I confronted him with some
1252
00:59:31.590 --> 00:59:34.489
tough questions about his reputation as a promoter and when
1253
00:59:34.510 --> 00:59:38.289
it came to payoffs and that kind of thing. What's
1254
00:59:38.309 --> 00:59:40.989
your unfiltered thoughts on working for Jerry Jarrett, the good
1255
00:59:41.130 --> 00:59:43.389
and the bad? What did you respect about him, and
1256
00:59:43.510 --> 00:59:45.829
what would you have wanted to wring his neck over?
1257
00:59:47.750 --> 00:59:49.030
Well, I ain't going to give you a lot of
1258
00:59:49.090 --> 00:59:50.710
the good or the bad of the thing because of
1259
00:59:50.750 --> 00:59:52.929
what that's all in the book. The other thing is
1260
00:59:53.750 --> 00:59:55.090
he brought me here from Australia.
1261
00:59:55.329 --> 00:59:55.550
Good.
1262
00:59:56.150 --> 01:00:01.340
He taught me how to be the booker. Was he smart?
1263
01:00:01.559 --> 01:00:05.199
Very smart. You've known him. I don't know if you
1264
01:00:05.219 --> 01:00:07.219
know him on a personal level, but, you know, it's
1265
01:00:08.119 --> 01:00:13.780
Jerry's way. But they were all alike. So read my
1266
01:00:13.820 --> 01:00:16.559
book and you'll find out exactly what I'm talking about here,
1267
01:00:16.579 --> 01:00:18.519
but that's another story. So if I tell it now,
1268
01:00:18.619 --> 01:00:21.019
I mean, everybody knows what's going on. So, I mean,
1269
01:00:22.159 --> 01:00:24.039
I got along good with him. He taught me how
1270
01:00:24.059 --> 01:00:26.119
to be the booker. When I went to Bill Watts,
1271
01:00:26.139 --> 01:00:29.570
Bill Watts had the two best years he's ever had
1272
01:00:29.769 --> 01:00:33.269
in the history of his territory. And Ricky and Robert
1273
01:00:33.369 --> 01:00:38.590
and the Midnight Express and Jimmy Cornette went there with
1274
01:00:38.820 --> 01:00:41.579
Jerry's blessing. After we go at Poppin and his story
1275
01:00:41.599 --> 01:00:43.780
died a little bit, he kind of said, we stole them.
1276
01:00:43.940 --> 01:00:46.760
Not true. He let us have them. But that's another story.
1277
01:00:46.780 --> 01:00:49.239
You'll get all of the real answers in the book.
1278
01:00:51.710 --> 01:00:53.449
As far as knowing the rest of the business, he
1279
01:00:53.489 --> 01:00:54.269
was very good at it.
1280
01:00:55.400 --> 01:00:59.360
Pay off-wise, do you think he was fair, unfair, terribly unfair?
1281
01:01:00.280 --> 01:01:02.019
Well, when I was the booker, when I was the
1282
01:01:02.039 --> 01:01:05.179
main event, it was very good. I mean, I was
1283
01:01:05.239 --> 01:01:08.360
shown somewhere with a guy writing the book. I was
1284
01:01:08.380 --> 01:01:12.840
shown in weeks 1,600, $ 1, 700 weeks, $ 2, 000 weeks. But, I mean,
1285
01:01:13.199 --> 01:01:14.300
this is back in the 80s.
1286
01:01:14.679 --> 01:01:15.440
Yeah, yeah.
1287
01:01:15.820 --> 01:01:18.719
So, I mean, but if my week was $ 2, 000, Jerry
1288
01:01:18.739 --> 01:01:22.030
Judge was $ 10, 000. But he was the promoter. Yeah. So,
1289
01:01:22.050 --> 01:01:24.550
I mean, you know, they all did that. Bill Watts
1290
01:01:24.610 --> 01:01:27.110
told me a story one time. He run the Superdome,
1291
01:01:27.130 --> 01:01:31.309
did something like $ 300, 000 to $ 200, 000. Some of the boys
1292
01:01:31.369 --> 01:01:34.489
went and bitched about $ 8, 000 payoff for that one night. Now,
1293
01:01:34.530 --> 01:01:35.530
this is back in the 80s.
1294
01:01:36.079 --> 01:01:36.280
Yeah.
1295
01:01:36.679 --> 01:01:38.599
And he told them, boys, if you can go beat
1296
01:01:38.659 --> 01:01:40.880
that somewhere, you just go right ahead and do it.
1297
01:01:41.079 --> 01:01:44.119
Where could you get $ 8, 000 before Vince McMahon did what
1298
01:01:44.199 --> 01:01:46.960
he was doing with pay-per-views and all? We wasn't doing it.
1299
01:01:46.960 --> 01:01:49.780
We was buying people and getting an $ 8, 000 payoff at
1300
01:01:49.800 --> 01:01:50.389
the Superdome.
1301
01:01:51.030 --> 01:01:51.760
Yeah, yeah.
1302
01:01:51.800 --> 01:01:54.500
So how do you, I mean, you know, I understand
1303
01:01:54.539 --> 01:01:58.739
that the promoter makes more money than the, but sometimes
1304
01:01:59.059 --> 01:02:01.760
they screw you. And they all did it. The Crockett's
1305
01:02:01.800 --> 01:02:04.139
did it. Watts did it. Jarrett did it. Nick Goulash
1306
01:02:04.159 --> 01:02:07.179
did it. Roy Wells did it. Never worked for Eddie Graham,
1307
01:02:07.199 --> 01:02:09.639
so I can't tell you how he did. Greg Gagne
1308
01:02:09.679 --> 01:02:11.639
did it. We did a pay-per-view with him. He never
1309
01:02:11.679 --> 01:02:14.010
paid nobody. That's another story that will be in the book.
1310
01:02:14.659 --> 01:02:16.409
That's when Jerry Jarrett said he was going to buy
1311
01:02:16.429 --> 01:02:19.170
the AWA and whatever happened happened. But that, I don't
1312
01:02:19.210 --> 01:02:20.869
think you guys, anyway, you read my book.
1313
01:02:21.550 --> 01:02:24.130
You crossed paths with Greg Gagne and WCW. Did that
1314
01:02:24.210 --> 01:02:26.170
come up? Did you guys just kind of avoid the subject?
1315
01:02:26.190 --> 01:02:27.030
Did you avoid each other?
1316
01:02:28.409 --> 01:02:28.929
Who, Greg?
1317
01:02:29.269 --> 01:02:29.530
Yeah.
1318
01:02:30.150 --> 01:02:32.530
No, we all lived together. Greg Gagne, Mike Graham, and me.
1319
01:02:32.550 --> 01:02:34.809
We had a penthouse suite up there, and we reviewed
1320
01:02:34.829 --> 01:02:37.809
some of the stuff going on. Now, that's another story. Yeah, no,
1321
01:02:37.909 --> 01:02:38.710
I liked Greg Gagne.
1322
01:02:38.730 --> 01:02:38.869
Okay.
1323
01:02:39.329 --> 01:02:42.090
Or his dad did, or whatever happened. I had no
1324
01:02:42.110 --> 01:02:43.349
grudges with Greg Gagne.
1325
01:02:43.449 --> 01:02:43.730
Okay.
1326
01:02:44.389 --> 01:02:44.889
I liked him.
1327
01:02:45.409 --> 01:02:45.710
Yep.
1328
01:02:45.789 --> 01:02:49.760
Still do. Like Mike Graham, too. And we'd get into arguments, and...
1329
01:02:50.280 --> 01:02:52.280
Sometimes they cleared the room one night and they'd do
1330
01:02:52.300 --> 01:02:54.869
the wrestling. I said, I'm not getting in that. That's
1331
01:02:54.909 --> 01:02:56.630
why I have a gun. I ain't getting in that.
1332
01:02:57.010 --> 01:02:59.210
And they'd do the wrestling, drink it, and carry it on.
1333
01:02:59.809 --> 01:03:02.050
I bet their dads were both tough guys and taught
1334
01:03:02.070 --> 01:03:04.070
them to wrestle. So, I mean, I just sat and
1335
01:03:04.090 --> 01:03:04.440
watched it.
1336
01:03:05.409 --> 01:03:06.130
How many times did you.
1337
01:03:06.170 --> 01:03:08.070
As Mike said, if you can't wrestle your buds, who
1338
01:03:08.110 --> 01:03:10.110
can you wrestle? I like Mike Green.
1339
01:03:11.510 --> 01:03:13.880
Bill, how many times did you have to pull out
1340
01:03:13.900 --> 01:03:16.519
your gun in order to restore order, as you put it?
1341
01:03:21.510 --> 01:03:26.050
Savage. I don't know about three.
1342
01:03:26.849 --> 01:03:27.090
Okay.
1343
01:03:28.050 --> 01:03:29.750
Well, it don't matter, but, you know.
1344
01:03:30.110 --> 01:03:31.349
Are those stories going to be in the book, all
1345
01:03:31.369 --> 01:03:31.550
of them?
1346
01:03:32.349 --> 01:03:32.670
Oh, yeah.
1347
01:03:33.070 --> 01:03:35.469
Good, good, good. We have to have you on again
1348
01:03:35.889 --> 01:03:37.849
when that book comes out. We'll promote the heck out
1349
01:03:37.869 --> 01:03:41.579
of it and pry a couple more good teaser stories.
1350
01:03:41.300 --> 01:03:43.699
Out of it. Now, for all you listeners out there, y'all,
1351
01:03:43.800 --> 01:03:47.630
I mean– My opinion of Memphis Heat, I lived it.
1352
01:03:47.630 --> 01:03:50.230
It was more fun living it than it is watching
1353
01:03:50.289 --> 01:03:53.179
it on the movie screen. But if you don't have it,
1354
01:03:53.210 --> 01:03:55.050
you need to get it. You'll see the life story
1355
01:03:55.090 --> 01:03:57.769
of Bill Dundee, Jerry Waller, and Jackie Fargo, and all
1356
01:03:57.809 --> 01:04:00.550
going back from the 90s to the 50s. So if
1357
01:04:00.590 --> 01:04:02.510
you don't have it, go get a copy of it
1358
01:04:02.550 --> 01:04:06.250
because if it's wrestling, it's best. It doesn't get no
1359
01:04:06.269 --> 01:04:06.809
better than that.
1360
01:04:07.349 --> 01:04:10.429
Memphis-Heat.com. I know Bruce Mitchell recommended it, and a lot
1361
01:04:10.449 --> 01:04:14.090
of our listeners respect Bruce's opinion. And I absolutely recommend it.
1362
01:04:14.489 --> 01:04:16.449
I just absolutely enjoy it. I've only watched it once
1363
01:04:16.469 --> 01:04:19.389
so far, and I can't wait to have a– I
1364
01:04:19.409 --> 01:04:21.829
want to show some non-wrestling fans that documentary, too. I
1365
01:04:21.869 --> 01:04:24.429
think it's one of those documentaries you can sit down
1366
01:04:24.469 --> 01:04:28.929
with people who aren't actually familiar with pro wrestling and
1367
01:04:28.969 --> 01:04:30.269
sit down, and I think they'd enjoy it, too.
1368
01:04:30.269 --> 01:04:32.219
90 seconds.
1369
01:04:32.440 --> 01:04:36.320
Anything about the documentary that you would have changed? And
1370
01:04:36.340 --> 01:04:38.559
it's not to say it's not great and that the
1371
01:04:38.780 --> 01:04:41.269
people who put it together– didn't do a better job
1372
01:04:41.289 --> 01:04:42.590
than you would have done in a million years. But
1373
01:04:42.650 --> 01:04:45.570
is there anything, upon watching the final product, that maybe
1374
01:04:45.590 --> 01:04:46.889
you think, oh, I wish there was a little more
1375
01:04:46.909 --> 01:04:49.230
time on that, or they left that out, or maybe
1376
01:04:49.250 --> 01:04:50.050
they got that wrong?
1377
01:04:53.929 --> 01:04:57.079
I think they had Buddy and Mr. Coffee on too much.
1378
01:04:57.300 --> 01:04:59.619
I mean, they never really wrestled Buddy.
1379
01:04:59.719 --> 01:05:02.059
I mean, Buddy ran into my coffee.
1380
01:05:02.400 --> 01:05:05.380
But I don't know why they kept it. They interviewed
1381
01:05:05.420 --> 01:05:07.300
them more than they interviewed me and Lola.
1382
01:05:07.659 --> 01:05:08.800
Yeah, yeah.
1383
01:05:09.420 --> 01:05:11.400
So I would have done this. But maybe when they
1384
01:05:11.420 --> 01:05:13.239
started doing it, they maybe didn't know they could have
1385
01:05:13.280 --> 01:05:15.559
got Jerry Lawler and Bill Dundee. Who knows? They may
1386
01:05:15.579 --> 01:05:17.239
have done that for you, and they paid us. So
1387
01:05:17.420 --> 01:05:19.380
I don't know what the budget was when they started.
1388
01:05:21.079 --> 01:05:22.800
I still don't know what it is now or how
1389
01:05:22.860 --> 01:05:25.340
it's doing. But, I mean, I did it for the
1390
01:05:25.380 --> 01:05:29.059
simple fact that we'll be around somewhere 100 years from now.
1391
01:05:29.119 --> 01:05:31.820
Somebody will say, oh, there's Bill Dundee 100 years from now.
1392
01:05:32.110 --> 01:05:34.150
There'll be a tape or something floating around. You know
1393
01:05:34.170 --> 01:05:36.230
what I mean? You become immortalized when you're on tape.
1394
01:05:36.889 --> 01:05:38.289
Absolutely. Absolutely.
1395
01:05:38.469 --> 01:05:40.449
And then if you write a book, you become mortalized
1396
01:05:40.469 --> 01:05:42.329
because somebody will throw it in a desk drawer and
1397
01:05:42.429 --> 01:05:44.159
it will be there 100 years from now and somebody's
1398
01:05:44.199 --> 01:05:46.519
great-grandkid will read it and say, wow, this is a
1399
01:05:46.539 --> 01:05:51.119
bad wrestler. Them promoters were all thieves. That's what they'll read.
1400
01:05:52.739 --> 01:05:54.570
Well, Bill, we're going to sign off on the live
1401
01:05:54.610 --> 01:05:56.030
portion of the show, but I hope you can stick
1402
01:05:56.070 --> 01:05:57.769
around for just a few more minutes. And I've got
1403
01:05:57.809 --> 01:05:59.750
a few more topics I want to address about the
1404
01:05:59.789 --> 01:06:03.300
documentary from Bruce Mitchell. And I want to thank all
1405
01:06:03.320 --> 01:06:05.039
the people who joined us live for the show today
1406
01:06:05.559 --> 01:06:08.800
and everybody who asked questions and sent in emails. VIP members,
1407
01:06:09.219 --> 01:06:11.659
hold on, because there is more to come for you,
1408
01:06:12.050 --> 01:06:15.809
including a variety of questions from the Memphis, the old
1409
01:06:15.829 --> 01:06:18.489
Memphis station. Really good questions from Bruce Mitchell that he
1410
01:06:18.510 --> 01:06:21.269
sent me earlier today that we'll be getting to. So thanks, everybody,
1411
01:06:21.309 --> 01:06:23.750
and be sure to join James Caldwell and Bruce Mitchell
1412
01:06:23.769 --> 01:06:26.800
for Monday's episode of the PWTorch Livecast in the hour
1413
01:06:26.860 --> 01:06:29.360
preceding Raw. Don't forget to go VIP if you want
1414
01:06:29.380 --> 01:06:33.340
to hear the rest of this interview. Go to pwtorch.com
1415
01:06:33.860 --> 01:06:40.139
slash go VIP. That's pwtorch.com slash go VIP. And we
1416
01:06:40.159 --> 01:06:43.679
would very much welcome you as a member of the site.
1417
01:06:44.159 --> 01:06:46.130
And it's $ 10 a month, and you'll get access not
1418
01:06:46.170 --> 01:06:47.550
only to the rest of this Build on D interview,
1419
01:06:47.889 --> 01:06:50.590
but hundreds and hundreds of other interviews I've done over
1420
01:06:50.610 --> 01:06:53.449
the past 20 years, both in text format and in
1421
01:06:53.769 --> 01:06:56.909
audio format, including... The Vern Gagne interview we referenced earlier,
1422
01:06:56.949 --> 01:06:59.460
the full audio of that from back in, I think
1423
01:06:59.480 --> 01:07:02.239
it was 1989 when I conducted the interview. Bill, thanks
1424
01:07:02.260 --> 01:07:03.519
very much. If you want to say goodbye to the
1425
01:07:03.559 --> 01:07:05.340
live listeners, that's great. Then we'll move on to the
1426
01:07:05.360 --> 01:07:05.659
VIP show.
1427
01:07:05.780 --> 01:07:09.630
All right, folks, appreciate you tuning in. December 1, my
1428
01:07:09.670 --> 01:07:11.329
book will be out of this call. If you don't
1429
01:07:11.369 --> 01:07:14.429
want the answer, don't ask the question by Bill Dundee.
1430
01:07:14.630 --> 01:07:15.070
There you go.
1431
01:07:15.730 --> 01:07:16.949
Awesome. Thanks, everybody.
1432
01:07:31.760 --> 01:07:34.760
Are you a fan of AEW looking to sit back, relax,
1433
01:07:34.900 --> 01:07:37.829
and listen to some like-minded podcasters who share your passion?
1434
01:07:38.449 --> 01:07:40.269
Do you want to be talked off the ledge after
1435
01:07:40.289 --> 01:07:42.489
a segment that has you wondering what the heck are
1436
01:07:42.510 --> 01:07:45.230
they thinking? Do you want to join a discussion on
1437
01:07:45.289 --> 01:07:48.050
what AEW is doing right and what they could do
1438
01:07:48.110 --> 01:07:51.260
to improve? Then join me, Joel. And me, Greg, for
1439
01:07:51.300 --> 01:07:54.539
the All Elite Conversation Club every Friday on the PWTorch
1440
01:07:54.599 --> 01:07:59.119
Livecast feed. Search PWTorch in your podcast app and subscribe
1441
01:07:59.159 --> 01:08:03.449
to PWTorch Dailycast or stream our shows directly from PWTorch.com.
1442
01:08:03.949 --> 01:08:09.489
Find full details on the PWTorch Dailycast lineup at PWTorchDailycast.com.
1443
01:08:18.180 --> 01:08:20.680
All right, Bill. We're now to the VIP After Show
1444
01:08:20.699 --> 01:08:22.140
portion of the show. Thanks for sticking around for a
1445
01:08:22.140 --> 01:08:22.699
little while longer.
1446
01:08:22.720 --> 01:08:24.239
All right.
1447
01:08:24.720 --> 01:08:28.210
All right. Dave Brown, in an interview I did with
1448
01:08:28.250 --> 01:08:31.449
him in the early 90s, talked about the Memphis show
1449
01:08:31.689 --> 01:08:34.489
where the ring broke at the beginning. I don't know
1450
01:08:34.569 --> 01:08:36.229
if that matches up for when you were around or not.
1451
01:08:36.250 --> 01:08:37.270
Do you remember that episode?
1452
01:08:38.989 --> 01:08:40.170
In the 90s?
1453
01:08:40.229 --> 01:08:42.439
No, it was in the 80s when early on in
1454
01:08:42.479 --> 01:08:44.239
the show, the person who put the ring together didn't
1455
01:08:44.279 --> 01:08:46.199
do a good job with it. The ring completely collapsed,
1456
01:08:46.699 --> 01:08:48.840
and this was at WMC, and they had to do
1457
01:08:48.840 --> 01:08:52.170
90 minutes with no matches, just talking and brawling.
1458
01:08:52.170 --> 01:08:55.270
That must have been before me, but I was there
1459
01:08:55.270 --> 01:08:58.630
from 75, and I don't ever remember that happening.
1460
01:08:58.630 --> 01:08:59.579
You know what?
1461
01:08:59.579 --> 01:09:03.060
I may have been off for a little while for
1462
01:09:04.020 --> 01:09:05.779
Ole Anderson when I went to Atlanta. So if it
1463
01:09:05.800 --> 01:09:06.260
was in the 80s, 83, 84, 85, or 86, I
1464
01:09:06.260 --> 01:09:06.819
may have been gone.
1465
01:09:10.020 --> 01:09:12.439
Yep, okay. So, yep, you probably missed that. Because I
1466
01:09:12.479 --> 01:09:14.390
asked Jerry Jarrett about that, and I thought you might
1467
01:09:14.430 --> 01:09:16.050
have better memories if you were part of it. But
1468
01:09:16.649 --> 01:09:17.189
no big deal.
1469
01:09:17.369 --> 01:09:19.270
No, I wasn't part of that. You would remember the
1470
01:09:19.289 --> 01:09:20.869
ring falling down. Yep.
1471
01:09:21.010 --> 01:09:24.590
Oh, yeah, you definitely remember that. Well, very good. I
1472
01:09:24.609 --> 01:09:27.250
want to go to a few questions that Senior Torch
1473
01:09:27.270 --> 01:09:31.489
Columnist Bruce Mitchell emailed me earlier. And one of them,
1474
01:09:32.770 --> 01:09:35.810
one of his questions is, make the case, Bill, why you,
1475
01:09:35.970 --> 01:09:37.609
in your prime, would have made a better king of
1476
01:09:37.670 --> 01:09:39.250
Memphis than Jerry Lawler.
1477
01:09:40.989 --> 01:09:42.569
Oh, I don't know if I would have made a
1478
01:09:42.609 --> 01:09:48.239
bear king. I like being the superstar. I don't know.
1479
01:09:48.699 --> 01:09:51.739
This is how it worked for me and Lala. He
1480
01:09:51.779 --> 01:09:53.680
was the star and I was the workhorse. I went
1481
01:09:53.720 --> 01:09:56.779
to every TV show. I went to every live show.
1482
01:09:57.199 --> 01:10:00.880
I did everything. Lala would work maybe Memphis, Monday, Louisville, Tuesday.
1483
01:10:00.899 --> 01:10:04.180
He owned 15 or 20 percent of the company. So
1484
01:10:04.220 --> 01:10:06.340
he would very seldom go to Evansville. He may go
1485
01:10:06.380 --> 01:10:08.439
to a spot show. So he liked being the king.
1486
01:10:08.460 --> 01:10:10.640
He liked being off. He liked doing his thing. I
1487
01:10:10.840 --> 01:10:13.989
really enjoyed the wrestling business, and Jerry Jarrett knew that,
1488
01:10:14.029 --> 01:10:15.649
so he said, I'll just work this boy to death.
1489
01:10:15.670 --> 01:10:19.729
But that's another story. So I don't know. I was
1490
01:10:19.770 --> 01:10:21.649
happy with my role at what it was.
1491
01:10:22.770 --> 01:10:26.090
Do you think had Jerry Lawler gone elsewhere, gone into
1492
01:10:26.130 --> 01:10:28.899
something else, gotten injured, whatever story would have driven him
1493
01:10:28.949 --> 01:10:32.319
away shortly after you arrived in Memphis, do you think
1494
01:10:32.340 --> 01:10:36.520
you could have been the central character You know, not
1495
01:10:36.579 --> 01:10:38.520
quote King of Memphis, but the superstar of Memphis, the
1496
01:10:38.560 --> 01:10:40.199
guy who carried the territory.
1497
01:10:40.220 --> 01:10:42.939
It was already over. When he came back, they had
1498
01:10:43.159 --> 01:10:45.840
banished him. Him and Jared had fell out, and they
1499
01:10:45.979 --> 01:10:47.899
told his ass, get out of town. So he left.
1500
01:10:48.340 --> 01:10:50.020
Me and Barnes came in and got over like a
1501
01:10:50.060 --> 01:10:52.949
house of fire. Then George got homesick. He never came
1502
01:10:52.989 --> 01:10:55.970
to stay, so he went home. And then they switched
1503
01:10:56.010 --> 01:10:58.210
me babyface. And, yeah, I could have got over. I
1504
01:10:58.250 --> 01:11:00.750
was already over. We sold the place out in three weeks.
1505
01:11:01.710 --> 01:11:04.439
Did you have a strong preference for working as babyface
1506
01:11:04.479 --> 01:11:04.689
or heel?
1507
01:11:06.229 --> 01:11:09.289
I'd rather be in a heel, but I was cute
1508
01:11:09.409 --> 01:11:13.149
and little and all the right attributes to be a babyface,
1509
01:11:13.170 --> 01:11:17.460
David and Goliath. So, I mean, it worked. So, you know.
1510
01:11:19.359 --> 01:11:23.020
Yeah. Why did you like to work? Why did you
1511
01:11:23.039 --> 01:11:23.680
prefer to work heel?
1512
01:11:24.359 --> 01:11:26.819
It was my personality. It was that back then. I
1513
01:11:26.819 --> 01:11:28.699
had a suit and fight shoes, look at you, or
1514
01:11:29.140 --> 01:11:31.760
cut shoes, look at you, or you know, I, I
1515
01:11:31.779 --> 01:11:35.340
had a huge personality, you know, that's just how I was.
1516
01:11:35.420 --> 01:11:37.590
I'd insult you and say, you know, it's just how
1517
01:11:37.619 --> 01:11:37.949
it was.
1518
01:11:38.909 --> 01:11:43.050
Do you know where the, where the tape live, like the, the, the, uh,
1519
01:11:43.829 --> 01:11:47.989
state and location of any Memphis wrestling tapes that people
1520
01:11:48.029 --> 01:11:48.930
haven't gotten their hands on?
1521
01:11:50.670 --> 01:11:53.810
No, because the, the, the TV is all in and
1522
01:11:54.069 --> 01:11:56.560
YouTube and all of them. And then anybody is going
1523
01:11:56.569 --> 01:11:57.300
to hang out there.
1524
01:11:57.739 --> 01:11:58.020
Yeah.
1525
01:11:58.039 --> 01:12:01.180
So, I think Lala gave them all them tapes that
1526
01:12:01.220 --> 01:12:03.359
they made that show at it. Lala gave them to them.
1527
01:12:03.960 --> 01:12:06.819
Yeah. I'm using them or whatever.
1528
01:12:06.840 --> 01:12:11.039
I'm sure there's a price involved, but no. There's very
1529
01:12:11.060 --> 01:12:14.239
few things out there. I have Jerry Jarrett's first scaffold match.
1530
01:12:14.279 --> 01:12:16.470
I don't think anybody's ever seen it. Have you ever
1531
01:12:16.489 --> 01:12:16.750
seen it?
1532
01:12:17.189 --> 01:12:17.810
No, I haven't.
1533
01:12:18.729 --> 01:12:20.869
Because it wasn't a scaffold match. It was two ladders,
1534
01:12:20.970 --> 01:12:23.229
six foot tall, and he called it scaffold, and he
1535
01:12:23.470 --> 01:12:25.970
caught me into going 30 feet, but that's another story.
1536
01:12:25.989 --> 01:12:32.140
That's crazy. were there any clips that, was there anything
1537
01:12:32.180 --> 01:12:34.979
that you would have loved to have had in that
1538
01:12:35.020 --> 01:12:38.060
documentary that maybe the footage just doesn't exist for? Like,
1539
01:12:38.119 --> 01:12:40.630
is there a great promo, a great angle, a great
1540
01:12:40.689 --> 01:12:44.710
match that you really wish would have been available for
1541
01:12:44.850 --> 01:12:46.600
inclusion in the documentary that you were involved in?
1542
01:12:48.630 --> 01:12:51.210
No, because all mine was great. Never had a bad
1543
01:12:51.310 --> 01:12:54.170
match and never had a lousy promo, so no. If
1544
01:12:54.189 --> 01:12:57.399
you ask Lala, he'll tell you the same thing. I
1545
01:12:57.880 --> 01:13:01.239
really don't know. We did so much stuff an hour
1546
01:13:01.279 --> 01:13:04.130
and a half every Saturday morning for 30 years. You
1547
01:13:04.170 --> 01:13:06.869
can't remember what you did. I've watched things on the thing.
1548
01:13:06.930 --> 01:13:10.649
I said, I actually do that. And you can't remember
1549
01:13:10.949 --> 01:13:14.529
doing them. You did them every week. You wrote the TV.
1550
01:13:14.569 --> 01:13:16.909
You came down there and you did it and you
1551
01:13:17.130 --> 01:13:19.350
executed it and you told everybody what to do and
1552
01:13:19.390 --> 01:13:21.369
not to do. And you had a hell of a show.
1553
01:13:21.890 --> 01:13:23.750
And sometimes you don't remember what you did.
1554
01:13:24.369 --> 01:13:28.689
Yeah. No, that's understandable. Jerry Jarrett in Memphis Heat, the documentary,
1555
01:13:28.859 --> 01:13:32.770
said that he believes, even in the 70s, that only
1556
01:13:32.770 --> 01:13:34.829
10% of the fans in those buildings thought what they
1557
01:13:34.850 --> 01:13:39.149
were watching was authentic fights without a finish determined ahead
1558
01:13:39.170 --> 01:13:42.310
of time. But the 100% of the fans, when they
1559
01:13:42.340 --> 01:13:45.439
walked in that door, they believed for the two, three
1560
01:13:45.460 --> 01:13:47.640
hours that they were there. And then when they walked
1561
01:13:47.680 --> 01:13:52.649
out of the building, 90% knew what they saw was authentic. uh...
1562
01:13:52.609 --> 01:13:54.909
to a great degree of show that only ten percent
1563
01:13:54.949 --> 01:13:57.289
felt that it was legit part of the budget that
1564
01:13:57.409 --> 01:13:59.869
that's not about right to you i don't.
1565
01:13:59.770 --> 01:14:01.689
Know i've ever thought of it that way i never
1566
01:14:01.989 --> 01:14:04.439
i the reason we call the march we thought they
1567
01:14:04.500 --> 01:14:06.720
all were marked i mean i never thought of it
1568
01:14:06.760 --> 01:14:09.239
that way i mean i i know we did what
1569
01:14:09.279 --> 01:14:12.479
we did and people bought a big season yeah you
1570
01:14:12.520 --> 01:14:14.600
can't put the guy in the face twenty seven times
1571
01:14:14.659 --> 01:14:20.380
in no blood i don't think intelligent people So I
1572
01:14:20.399 --> 01:14:22.550
don't know what the breakdown would be. I never give
1573
01:14:22.590 --> 01:14:24.409
it any thought. I mean, yeah, it was a show,
1574
01:14:24.489 --> 01:14:25.810
and I think a lot of people knew it was
1575
01:14:25.850 --> 01:14:27.489
a show, but it was an exciting show, and they
1576
01:14:27.529 --> 01:14:29.770
came to see it in like two hours. But I
1577
01:14:29.789 --> 01:14:32.310
don't know what the breakdown is. I have no clue.
1578
01:14:32.369 --> 01:14:36.010
Was it important to you that fans thought you were
1579
01:14:36.409 --> 01:14:39.149
having legitimate fights, or what mattered to you was they
1580
01:14:39.170 --> 01:14:42.289
bought a ticket, they enjoyed themselves, and they appreciated what
1581
01:14:42.329 --> 01:14:45.170
I did? Or was it important to you that people
1582
01:14:45.189 --> 01:14:46.529
felt you were really fighting and winning?
1583
01:14:47.810 --> 01:14:49.630
No, nothing to do with that. I just wanted to
1584
01:14:49.670 --> 01:14:53.109
think I was shooting a nice guy. And they did.
1585
01:14:53.399 --> 01:14:55.180
And I was. And I was all in things when
1586
01:14:55.220 --> 01:14:57.699
I switched baby face. So, no, it never, you know.
1587
01:14:58.000 --> 01:15:00.340
But we lived what life was. I mean, there's a
1588
01:15:00.399 --> 01:15:04.319
whole different thing. From the 50s to the 90s, it
1589
01:15:04.359 --> 01:15:06.859
was all different. When Kayfabe was around, you better live
1590
01:15:06.899 --> 01:15:10.000
it that way. And, you know, it was all just different, man.
1591
01:15:10.560 --> 01:15:15.930
Walking into the dressing room was different. Nobody really respects
1592
01:15:16.010 --> 01:15:18.430
anybody today, and I haven't been around Vince's shows. I
1593
01:15:18.449 --> 01:15:21.329
haven't got a clue. But, you know, when the stars
1594
01:15:21.369 --> 01:15:23.109
walked in in the good old days, you knew who
1595
01:15:23.149 --> 01:15:29.449
they were. Today, nobody wears suits. You have to do that.
1596
01:15:29.510 --> 01:15:31.569
But all the football players do. Well, they're getting a
1597
01:15:31.569 --> 01:15:34.800
little scruffy now, too. So it was all a different era,
1598
01:15:34.810 --> 01:15:36.899
my friend. I never saw Lou Thass show up in
1599
01:15:36.939 --> 01:15:38.340
a building without a suit and a tie on.
1600
01:15:38.779 --> 01:15:42.680
Yeah, yeah. Actually, yeah. Johnny Ace, John Laurinaitis, when he
1601
01:15:42.720 --> 01:15:44.859
took over for Jim Ross as director of talent relations
1602
01:15:44.899 --> 01:15:49.260
in WWE, instituted a dress code. And this was about
1603
01:15:49.319 --> 01:15:52.640
eight years ago, roughly speaking. And boy, did the wrestlers
1604
01:15:52.680 --> 01:15:56.239
not like that, especially the women who were not used
1605
01:15:56.270 --> 01:15:58.770
to dressing certain ways. Well, I shouldn't say especially the women. Everybody,
1606
01:15:58.890 --> 01:16:01.510
a lot of the guys, were not happy about having
1607
01:16:01.529 --> 01:16:02.250
to dress formally.
1608
01:16:02.270 --> 01:16:05.189
You got that from Bill Watts, probably. Watts had a
1609
01:16:05.229 --> 01:16:05.689
dress code.
1610
01:16:06.300 --> 01:16:08.300
Yeah, you know, I think there was a generation of
1611
01:16:08.319 --> 01:16:10.600
wrestlers who had, you know, wanted to wear their fanny
1612
01:16:10.619 --> 01:16:15.039
packs and their workout clothes, but WWE decided, you know,
1613
01:16:15.079 --> 01:16:17.260
you guys got a little too slack with that. And
1614
01:16:17.279 --> 01:16:20.000
like you said, Bill, football players, hockey players, I mean,
1615
01:16:20.359 --> 01:16:22.520
NBA players, they wear nice suits when they're in public,
1616
01:16:22.560 --> 01:16:24.550
and it's part of the image of the company. And,
1617
01:16:24.569 --> 01:16:26.649
you know, I mean, I think it's not a bad idea,
1618
01:16:26.810 --> 01:16:26.989
you know.
1619
01:16:28.000 --> 01:16:29.619
I think it's a good idea, but if you go
1620
01:16:29.659 --> 01:16:31.979
live your gimmick, when I dressed to go out, I
1621
01:16:32.010 --> 01:16:34.130
had jeans with all the sparkles on them and all
1622
01:16:34.149 --> 01:16:37.289
the things. People would hand make them in the silk shirt.
1623
01:16:37.909 --> 01:16:39.949
So I look more like a rock star than I
1624
01:16:39.989 --> 01:16:41.670
did a wrestler. If people tell me, what did that
1625
01:16:41.710 --> 01:16:43.369
guy do for a living, they would never have thought
1626
01:16:43.430 --> 01:16:47.010
I was a wrestler, ever, in a bar. Because I
1627
01:16:47.250 --> 01:16:50.130
was 5'7, 210 pounds, cuter than most people standing there.
1628
01:16:50.189 --> 01:16:53.220
I'm usually cuter than the date I dated. I'm not
1629
01:16:53.560 --> 01:16:55.840
saying that, bragging, just the fact. Look at the old pictures.
1630
01:16:55.859 --> 01:16:58.819
See what I'm saying? So I never wanted, I mean,
1631
01:16:58.880 --> 01:17:01.340
I didn't want them to think I was completely phony
1632
01:17:01.460 --> 01:17:05.470
or insult me by saying it. No, I mean, think
1633
01:17:05.520 --> 01:17:06.869
what you like, just don't say it.
1634
01:17:08.470 --> 01:17:11.109
From a traditional standpoint also, not just dress code, but
1635
01:17:11.149 --> 01:17:14.729
what about the handshake tradition where a wrestler walks in
1636
01:17:14.750 --> 01:17:15.409
the locker room?
1637
01:17:16.869 --> 01:17:19.890
That all started after me, man. They shook hands like
1638
01:17:19.949 --> 01:17:22.189
men when I was doing it. That pisses me off,
1639
01:17:22.649 --> 01:17:24.810
not to say that word, but it does when people
1640
01:17:24.850 --> 01:17:25.949
grab your hand like they're.
1641
01:17:25.829 --> 01:17:26.310
An old woman.
1642
01:17:26.770 --> 01:17:28.010
I'd punch him in the face.
1643
01:17:28.789 --> 01:17:29.670
The soft hand grip?
1644
01:17:29.729 --> 01:17:33.310
That floppy handshake, I don't know where that came from.
1645
01:17:33.329 --> 01:17:33.890
Yeah.
1646
01:17:34.010 --> 01:17:34.909
And it sucks, man.
1647
01:17:35.350 --> 01:17:39.760
Yeah. But when you were in Memphis in the mid-' 70s,
1648
01:17:39.430 --> 01:17:41.140
if you walked in the locker room, did you go
1649
01:17:41.149 --> 01:17:43.439
around and give a firm handshake to everybody? Was that
1650
01:17:43.460 --> 01:17:45.859
just kind of if somebody else came in? Was that tradition?
1651
01:17:45.880 --> 01:17:47.859
I never shook nobody's hand unless I liked them.
1652
01:17:48.420 --> 01:17:50.930
Okay. So not everybody who walked in the room didn't
1653
01:17:51.109 --> 01:17:53.560
necessarily have to go around shaking everybody's hand for the
1654
01:17:53.569 --> 01:17:54.979
locker room etiquette.
1655
01:17:55.000 --> 01:17:56.939
Somebody from out of town, like a flair come in,
1656
01:17:56.979 --> 01:17:58.600
flair would shake your hand, but he would shake it
1657
01:17:58.640 --> 01:18:00.760
like a man because he's the champion and he's just
1658
01:18:00.800 --> 01:18:04.720
coming in for the one night. That's different, but, you know, just, no,
1659
01:18:04.960 --> 01:18:06.590
there's a lot of things. I don't know what they
1660
01:18:06.600 --> 01:18:09.430
do today. That flippy floppy handshake, that is terrible, man.
1661
01:18:09.850 --> 01:18:12.350
And it doesn't tell you anything. Now, here's the thing.
1662
01:18:13.130 --> 01:18:15.810
If you're in that frigging dressing room, you have to
1663
01:18:15.850 --> 01:18:17.390
be smart back in the day or you wouldn't have
1664
01:18:17.409 --> 01:18:17.739
been in it.
1665
01:18:18.350 --> 01:18:18.529
Yep.
1666
01:18:19.430 --> 01:18:21.409
See what I'm saying? If you walk in with your bag,
1667
01:18:21.489 --> 01:18:23.579
everybody knows you're a worker. They may not know your name,
1668
01:18:23.619 --> 01:18:25.619
but they know what you do for a living.
1669
01:18:27.819 --> 01:18:29.659
iPhone users, if you're listening to us on the Native
1670
01:18:29.699 --> 01:18:33.720
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1671
01:18:33.760 --> 01:18:38.699
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1672
01:18:38.720 --> 01:18:41.279
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1673
01:18:41.340 --> 01:18:43.319
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1674
01:18:43.380 --> 01:18:46.970
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1675
01:18:46.989 --> 01:18:49.989
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01:18:50.029 --> 01:18:53.810
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1677
01:18:53.829 --> 01:18:56.640
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1678
01:18:56.680 --> 01:18:59.159
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1679
01:18:59.180 --> 01:19:01.859
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1680
01:19:01.960 --> 01:19:05.600
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1681
01:19:05.640 --> 01:19:08.939
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1682
01:19:08.979 --> 01:19:12.119
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1683
01:19:12.149 --> 01:19:14.510
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1684
01:19:14.590 --> 01:19:20.729
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1685
01:19:21.210 --> 01:19:23.810
What would rookies do in the Memphis Territory when a
1686
01:19:23.829 --> 01:19:26.210
new guy came in What was the right thing for
1687
01:19:26.250 --> 01:19:28.250
them to do the first time that they were at
1688
01:19:28.390 --> 01:19:30.869
a building, at a show, at a venue, and what
1689
01:19:30.890 --> 01:19:33.729
were some rookie mistakes in terms of how they conducted themselves?
1690
01:19:35.350 --> 01:19:36.949
Well, I mean, I don't think there was any rules
1691
01:19:37.050 --> 01:19:38.649
set then to do the thing, but, I mean, you
1692
01:19:38.680 --> 01:19:41.159
had enough respect that Rick Clare came in. He was
1693
01:19:41.199 --> 01:19:44.899
the champion. You treated him like one. Somebody that you
1694
01:19:44.939 --> 01:19:46.579
didn't know came in, and you brought him in just
1695
01:19:46.600 --> 01:19:48.260
for the night, and the place was sold out. You're
1696
01:19:48.279 --> 01:19:50.579
thanking him for the check because he was the other
1697
01:19:50.600 --> 01:19:52.500
half of the sale I had a part of. So
1698
01:19:52.520 --> 01:19:55.229
it was all different. We was based on... what we
1699
01:19:55.250 --> 01:19:58.729
drew that night to get paid. They get paychecks that's enormous.
1700
01:19:59.310 --> 01:20:02.210
To go back to WCW to give it the perspective
1701
01:20:02.229 --> 01:20:06.520
of what I'm trying to say here. Mike Graham, Greg Gunn,
1702
01:20:06.560 --> 01:20:09.300
and Bill Dundee were all getting about $ 150, 000 a year
1703
01:20:09.319 --> 01:20:15.000
in expenses. They were paying Sting $ 800, 000 a year to
1704
01:20:15.039 --> 01:20:18.270
be the champion. How is Sting going to listen to
1705
01:20:18.310 --> 01:20:21.659
you and you getting four times less than he is?
1706
01:20:22.159 --> 01:20:23.529
It used to be in the good old days, the
1707
01:20:23.550 --> 01:20:27.010
booker called all the shots, made more money than anybody
1708
01:20:27.050 --> 01:20:31.949
else on the card, and worked harder. Now, me and Mike,
1709
01:20:31.970 --> 01:20:35.449
we go tell somebody, and then me on white, another
1710
01:20:35.489 --> 01:20:37.489
guy getting a fortune. How are we going to listen
1711
01:20:37.529 --> 01:20:39.750
to you? Hell, I make more money than you. What
1712
01:20:39.770 --> 01:20:43.510
the hell are you? And that's what happened to our business.
1713
01:20:44.270 --> 01:20:45.850
And that's a problem you're in.
1714
01:20:46.600 --> 01:20:49.119
The puppets go pay more than the puppeteers, and the
1715
01:20:49.180 --> 01:20:50.760
puppeteers should always get paid the most.
1716
01:20:51.869 --> 01:20:54.069
Obviously, that's an issue in pro sports, too. You know,
1717
01:20:54.109 --> 01:20:55.890
in the NBA, there's a head coach making a million
1718
01:20:55.909 --> 01:21:00.850
a year or $ 500, 000 a year and players making $ 3, 000, 000, $ 4, 000, 000, $ 5, 000, 000.
1719
01:20:59.979 --> 01:21:01.960
But what they say in the NBA is the coach
1720
01:21:02.000 --> 01:21:03.800
gets to decide whether you get your minutes or not
1721
01:21:03.840 --> 01:21:06.239
and whether you get to pad your statistics or not. And,
1722
01:21:06.260 --> 01:21:08.180
you know, even the booker would have some power over
1723
01:21:08.199 --> 01:21:10.880
the wrestler, even with a pay difference. But it's not
1724
01:21:10.899 --> 01:21:11.319
the same thing.
1725
01:21:11.359 --> 01:21:14.140
Not at WCW. They just went and bitched at somebody
1726
01:21:14.180 --> 01:21:16.550
at the top and they'd tear you off. Oh, don't
1727
01:21:16.600 --> 01:21:18.430
say this to Sting or don't say this to Luger,
1728
01:21:18.470 --> 01:21:20.779
don't say this at all, you know. So, not that
1729
01:21:20.840 --> 01:21:24.819
Sting and I go along great with Sting. I like him. But,
1730
01:21:24.939 --> 01:21:28.130
you know, he started in Memphis, him and Jim Hellwig.
1731
01:21:30.170 --> 01:21:33.909
Talking about the Memphis days and protecting kayfabe, just going
1732
01:21:33.930 --> 01:21:37.130
back to that for a second, to what extent did you, quote,
1733
01:21:37.170 --> 01:21:40.060
protect the business in the 70s and early 80s, or,
1734
01:21:40.100 --> 01:21:43.560
you know, even through the 80s? Were you confronted a
1735
01:21:43.600 --> 01:21:48.750
lot with friends, family, strangers? media reporters with the question,
1736
01:21:48.789 --> 01:21:52.189
it's fake, isn't it? To what extent did you open
1737
01:21:52.270 --> 01:21:54.649
up about it or not, even friends, family, and then
1738
01:21:54.670 --> 01:21:55.850
a separate category?
1739
01:21:55.909 --> 01:22:00.239
No, your family never said no. Here's the thing that
1740
01:22:00.479 --> 01:22:06.260
I always answer this question. Predetermined, maybe. Fake, never. You
1741
01:22:06.300 --> 01:22:09.020
take a glass diamond and a real diamond, the glass
1742
01:22:09.060 --> 01:22:12.310
diamond is fake. But them bumps and all the things
1743
01:22:12.329 --> 01:22:14.989
that we did, If you're 200 and you're working with
1744
01:22:15.010 --> 01:22:17.470
a guy 270, he drops an elbow and it jars
1745
01:22:17.489 --> 01:22:19.939
you up a little bit. So he's not trying to
1746
01:22:19.979 --> 01:22:23.939
kill you. I understand all that. But the word fake
1747
01:22:24.180 --> 01:22:26.119
is the wrong word, and I don't know whoever said
1748
01:22:26.159 --> 01:22:28.260
that to start with way back when, but it's all
1749
01:22:28.279 --> 01:22:31.779
wrestling fake. No, it ain't fake. Predetermined maybe, but it
1750
01:22:31.819 --> 01:22:32.260
ain't fake.
1751
01:22:32.899 --> 01:22:35.899
Yeah, yeah. It irritates me. I mean, when there's people
1752
01:22:35.920 --> 01:22:38.979
who don't understand anything about wrestling, they're just peripherally aware
1753
01:22:39.020 --> 01:22:42.090
it exists. And you talk about somebody getting injured or
1754
01:22:42.170 --> 01:22:44.220
somebody needing a hip replacement or somebody having a torn
1755
01:22:44.229 --> 01:22:47.199
bicep or concussion syndrome and all kinds of things. And
1756
01:22:47.220 --> 01:22:48.239
they're like, well, isn't it fake?
1757
01:22:49.100 --> 01:22:51.880
Yeah, I've got two of them torn biceps you're talking about,
1758
01:22:51.899 --> 01:22:55.420
and I'm getting my knee done Monday. So I'm going
1759
01:22:55.439 --> 01:22:57.880
into the hospital to have an operation to get it
1760
01:22:57.960 --> 01:23:01.180
done Monday. So, yeah, that's 40 years of use and abuse.
1761
01:23:01.260 --> 01:23:05.039
I understand all that. But you're still banging your butt here.
1762
01:23:05.079 --> 01:23:07.600
It's like football players. You know, they all have pads
1763
01:23:07.659 --> 01:23:09.319
and helmets on, but some of them bumps hurt.
1764
01:23:10.430 --> 01:23:12.090
They get hurt in practice.
1765
01:23:12.270 --> 01:23:13.010
Yes, they do.
1766
01:23:13.369 --> 01:23:16.109
You're not playing to win the game. You're just practicing.
1767
01:23:16.470 --> 01:23:20.529
I mean, you're staying in hard. Bruce Mitchell had another question,
1768
01:23:20.550 --> 01:23:22.729
which is kind of related to this. He says, talk
1769
01:23:22.750 --> 01:23:25.760
about the physical nature of your Memphis Coliseum-made events with
1770
01:23:25.770 --> 01:23:28.119
Jerry Lawler. Whew!
1771
01:23:28.140 --> 01:23:28.420
We were.
1772
01:23:32.979 --> 01:23:35.100
Hell of a workers it looked a lot more brutal
1773
01:23:35.119 --> 01:23:37.689
than it actually was well that's good here at the
1774
01:23:37.739 --> 01:23:39.649
other and it's true and i'm not saying it to
1775
01:23:39.689 --> 01:23:43.770
be you know it's just true with lollipop punch i
1776
01:23:43.789 --> 01:23:45.750
could do it looked like it took your head off
1777
01:23:46.170 --> 01:23:49.270
but on the other hand he never really cared if
1778
01:23:49.289 --> 01:23:51.550
it it hurt a little bit and i didn't either
1779
01:23:52.090 --> 01:23:54.770
and and so we we went into the ring going
1780
01:23:54.789 --> 01:23:57.329
to entertain them people make it as real as possible
1781
01:23:58.050 --> 01:23:59.510
and we'll be the main event next week.
1782
01:23:59.390 --> 01:24:04.180
Again Did you feel Jerry was good at protecting you
1783
01:24:04.279 --> 01:24:05.840
and you were good at protecting him in that way
1784
01:24:06.399 --> 01:24:09.539
on maybe a level above the typical opponent? Or did
1785
01:24:09.560 --> 01:24:11.220
you guys have good rapport in that way in the ring?
1786
01:24:12.199 --> 01:24:13.760
Well, we had good rapport in that way in the ring,
1787
01:24:13.779 --> 01:24:15.819
but you had good rapport with everybody like that because
1788
01:24:15.840 --> 01:24:18.640
here's the thing. If you get hurt, you can't work. See,
1789
01:24:18.659 --> 01:24:22.529
we worked Memphis Monday, Louisville Tuesday, Heaven World Wednesday. Back
1790
01:24:22.550 --> 01:24:27.449
in the day, Jackson Thursday, Tupelo Friday, Jonesboro Saturday night
1791
01:24:27.550 --> 01:24:30.899
and Memphis TV Saturday morning. So that was basically the
1792
01:24:30.939 --> 01:24:33.489
towns that we run for years. So if you got
1793
01:24:33.529 --> 01:24:35.350
hurt on Memphis Monday night and you were the main
1794
01:24:35.369 --> 01:24:37.670
event and two below Friday, it hurt the town, it
1795
01:24:37.710 --> 01:24:41.149
hurt your paycheck. So you didn't do nothing stupid.
1796
01:24:41.989 --> 01:24:47.789
Yeah, yeah. Another question from Bruce Mitchell, which is, I'm sorry,
1797
01:24:47.810 --> 01:24:49.949
just that one. How did you approach your wife at
1798
01:24:49.989 --> 01:24:52.039
the time with the idea that you would put her
1799
01:24:52.140 --> 01:24:55.300
hair up against Lawler's and she would lose?
1800
01:24:55.319 --> 01:24:57.859
How did I approach that?
1801
01:24:59.699 --> 01:25:02.239
Yeah, how did you come up with that idea? Tell
1802
01:25:02.279 --> 01:25:03.260
us how that conversation went.
1803
01:25:03.279 --> 01:25:05.260
I was there with a bald head, and I said, baby,
1804
01:25:05.979 --> 01:25:07.619
we need to buy us a new house. We've just
1805
01:25:07.680 --> 01:25:10.579
been here a little, not quite a year. And I
1806
01:25:10.600 --> 01:25:12.239
got a lot of money for this head of here
1807
01:25:12.350 --> 01:25:14.189
I had, and it was longer than it was used.
1808
01:25:14.850 --> 01:25:17.090
And you can get the same amount, and we can
1809
01:25:17.130 --> 01:25:20.270
go buy that new house we're looking for. Or prove
1810
01:25:20.289 --> 01:25:21.149
a damn payment on it.
1811
01:25:21.590 --> 01:25:22.270
Yeah.
1812
01:25:22.829 --> 01:25:25.550
We can? I said, yeah. She said, that much money?
1813
01:25:25.609 --> 01:25:26.289
I said, yeah.
1814
01:25:26.630 --> 01:25:26.949
Mm-hmm.
1815
01:25:27.850 --> 01:25:29.130
I said, what do I have to do? I said,
1816
01:25:29.149 --> 01:25:31.449
just come to the TV, attack Lala, and we'll shoot
1817
01:25:31.489 --> 01:25:34.449
the angle, and Monday night, sit in the chair, and
1818
01:25:34.470 --> 01:25:42.399
they'll cut your hair. She said, okay. So, she never
1819
01:25:42.420 --> 01:25:44.779
really got her hair shaved, though, because the people were writing,
1820
01:25:44.840 --> 01:25:47.100
and see, when we did that angle, people thought they
1821
01:25:47.119 --> 01:25:48.920
were really not going to cut the woman's hair, that
1822
01:25:48.939 --> 01:25:50.560
they were going to see Lala get his hair cut.
1823
01:25:50.939 --> 01:25:51.180
Yeah.
1824
01:25:51.279 --> 01:25:53.819
But it didn't. We double-crossed them, not really double-crossed them,
1825
01:25:53.840 --> 01:25:55.479
because there was a haircut in which she'd have been
1826
01:25:55.510 --> 01:25:59.590
the ladies, but They really all thought Lawler was going
1827
01:25:59.609 --> 01:26:02.350
to get his hair cut. The smart marksmen thought they
1828
01:26:02.390 --> 01:26:04.470
were back then. Ah, they'll never cut the woman's hair,
1829
01:26:04.529 --> 01:26:08.149
Dundee won't go for that, neither will the woman. Well, wrong.
1830
01:26:08.649 --> 01:26:12.909
So anyway, he beat me, cut the hair, and we
1831
01:26:12.949 --> 01:26:14.939
went on again. Now I'm mad at him again for
1832
01:26:14.960 --> 01:26:17.500
cutting my wife's hair. Just kept on rolling, brother.
1833
01:26:18.819 --> 01:26:22.180
Bruce also asked, what green undercard guys were you surprised
1834
01:26:22.579 --> 01:26:24.020
who went on to make it big later on?
1835
01:26:25.609 --> 01:26:28.989
I don't really think you're really that all surprised because
1836
01:26:29.029 --> 01:26:30.909
the people in it, when we used them and we
1837
01:26:30.949 --> 01:26:33.350
booked them, they all could work. That was the thing
1838
01:26:33.399 --> 01:26:36.579
they all had. You know, they all had talent in
1839
01:26:36.600 --> 01:26:40.460
their own right. I mean, I never was really surprised
1840
01:26:40.500 --> 01:26:43.279
when anybody made it. We're all in it for the
1841
01:26:43.319 --> 01:26:45.239
same thing, trying to make it to the top.
1842
01:26:45.979 --> 01:26:50.779
Yeah, yeah. So nobody that went through your territory ended
1843
01:26:50.819 --> 01:26:55.289
up becoming a huge– You never kind of shook your
1844
01:26:55.310 --> 01:26:57.869
head and said, that surprised me. I would have never
1845
01:26:57.909 --> 01:26:58.310
called that.
1846
01:26:58.329 --> 01:27:02.729
No, we knew Mark. Me and Mark, we didn't know
1847
01:27:02.760 --> 01:27:04.439
he was going to be the Undertaker, but we knew
1848
01:27:04.479 --> 01:27:07.300
he had something. Stone Cold was one of the.
1849
01:27:09.260 --> 01:27:11.500
He had blonde hair that, in fact, on one of
1850
01:27:11.520 --> 01:27:14.739
their shows now on the Internet, they're showing a match
1851
01:27:14.760 --> 01:27:16.579
for me and Stone Cold when we was in Dallas.
1852
01:27:17.340 --> 01:27:20.079
And the only time that I looked at Austin and
1853
01:27:20.159 --> 01:27:22.399
I knew it wasn't him was when they made him
1854
01:27:22.439 --> 01:27:23.800
the Hollywood blonde in WCW.
1855
01:27:24.760 --> 01:27:25.659
Yep, yep.
1856
01:27:26.300 --> 01:27:27.239
It just wasn't him.
1857
01:27:27.720 --> 01:27:27.979
Yep.
1858
01:27:28.199 --> 01:27:31.079
And then the Stone Cold gimmick, that was him. What
1859
01:27:31.100 --> 01:27:32.899
you see with Austin is what you get, a big
1860
01:27:32.979 --> 01:27:34.079
beer swilling redneck.
1861
01:27:34.720 --> 01:27:38.819
Yep. You talked about Mark Calloway early on. Did you
1862
01:27:39.359 --> 01:27:40.899
look at him and think, this guy's probably going to
1863
01:27:40.939 --> 01:27:41.420
be something?
1864
01:27:42.239 --> 01:27:43.079
How could you not?
1865
01:27:43.159 --> 01:27:45.590
My God, he could jump around like a little guy.
1866
01:27:45.750 --> 01:27:47.670
He dropped an elbow and he was four feet in
1867
01:27:47.689 --> 01:27:50.949
the air. He did all the things the little guys did.
1868
01:27:51.029 --> 01:27:52.829
I mean, you think if just somebody's going to see
1869
01:27:52.869 --> 01:27:55.699
him and do something with him, He.
1870
01:27:55.659 --> 01:27:59.800
Didn't seem to have kind of that X factor that, say,
1871
01:27:59.840 --> 01:28:02.380
a young Hulk Hogan had, where you go, I know
1872
01:28:02.439 --> 01:28:03.819
exactly what we're going to do with this guy to
1873
01:28:03.840 --> 01:28:06.170
make money with him. It just, his look was not,
1874
01:28:06.529 --> 01:28:09.250
you know, it wasn't a typical look of a main eventer,
1875
01:28:09.649 --> 01:28:11.649
but he had all these other traits, and it just,
1876
01:28:11.810 --> 01:28:15.050
isn't it amazing what a great fit this kind of
1877
01:28:15.090 --> 01:28:18.430
weird Vince McMahon kind of cartoon character, how Mark Calloway
1878
01:28:18.470 --> 01:28:22.199
took that in a direction where, I mean, he's, you know, Mr. Wrestling,
1879
01:28:22.279 --> 01:28:25.489
he's as successful as really anybody in uh... in terms
1880
01:28:25.569 --> 01:28:27.369
of longevity the last twenty five years for the last
1881
01:28:27.409 --> 01:28:29.500
twenty years yeah.
1882
01:28:29.300 --> 01:28:31.020
I mean he he he knew what he's going to
1883
01:28:31.039 --> 01:28:33.159
play he was very good at it and i don't
1884
01:28:33.180 --> 01:28:34.899
know if it was just the same thing but i
1885
01:28:34.920 --> 01:28:36.750
think you really think you're going to look at it
1886
01:28:36.770 --> 01:28:38.949
but i don't know what i mean and it worked
1887
01:28:38.970 --> 01:28:42.159
for hope for everybody. And Dusty did the thing. The
1888
01:28:42.180 --> 01:28:44.020
American Dream, baby, the man of the hour, meant to
1889
01:28:44.180 --> 01:28:46.619
sweet to be solid, baby. And he didn't have a lisp.
1890
01:28:46.720 --> 01:28:50.770
He doesn't talk like that in real life. But, you know,
1891
01:28:50.789 --> 01:28:54.350
it worked for him. Big old fat dude, make it
1892
01:28:54.369 --> 01:28:56.930
to the top, so can you. The American Dream, Dusty Rose.
1893
01:28:56.970 --> 01:28:58.210
That's what that gimmick was about.
1894
01:28:59.050 --> 01:29:04.970
Did Dusty have the biggest ego that you were on?
1895
01:29:05.470 --> 01:29:10.090
Oh, God, did Dusty have the biggest ego? Yes. We
1896
01:29:10.170 --> 01:29:13.949
all had them. I got one. I mean, anybody with
1897
01:29:13.989 --> 01:29:16.050
the top of their field has one. I'm sure John
1898
01:29:16.090 --> 01:29:16.750
Wayne had one.
1899
01:29:17.329 --> 01:29:20.729
But there's something about having an ego that drives you
1900
01:29:20.770 --> 01:29:22.520
to be on television that makes you think people are
1901
01:29:22.529 --> 01:29:24.260
going to want to watch you. That allows you to
1902
01:29:24.300 --> 01:29:26.979
cut a promo with the confidence and bravado that will
1903
01:29:27.020 --> 01:29:28.539
cause people to want to pay to see you fight.
1904
01:29:29.069 --> 01:29:30.409
And I get that. You have to have an ego
1905
01:29:30.430 --> 01:29:33.909
to do that. But there's people whose ego goes to
1906
01:29:33.949 --> 01:29:37.840
a point where it becomes obnoxious or you just kind
1907
01:29:37.880 --> 01:29:41.819
of shake your head. You don't admire them as much
1908
01:29:41.880 --> 01:29:43.560
because the ego is just a little out of control.
1909
01:29:43.800 --> 01:29:46.760
And when I ask that, Dusty is notorious for that.
1910
01:29:46.880 --> 01:29:48.520
So I was wondering if anybody else is even in
1911
01:29:48.539 --> 01:29:52.880
Dusty's league when it comes to just being so unabashedly
1912
01:29:52.939 --> 01:29:54.979
full of himself on and off camera.
1913
01:29:56.350 --> 01:30:00.420
Well, Mike Graham, Greg Gagne, me and Dusty used to
1914
01:30:00.460 --> 01:30:02.680
go to the bar damn near every night after we
1915
01:30:02.699 --> 01:30:06.119
finished what we did at WCW. And he was never
1916
01:30:06.180 --> 01:30:08.319
like that with us. Now, yes, he can be that
1917
01:30:08.600 --> 01:30:11.930
with the marks. He can be very obnoxious and all
1918
01:30:11.949 --> 01:30:14.909
the things and go on like he has this big ego.
1919
01:30:15.529 --> 01:30:19.250
And he does have one. But he never said nothing
1920
01:30:19.289 --> 01:30:21.350
stupid to me when we were sitting out drinking or
1921
01:30:21.409 --> 01:30:24.579
Mike or Greg. I mean, we all go along good. But, yeah,
1922
01:30:24.640 --> 01:30:25.960
he doesn't have a super ego.
1923
01:30:27.430 --> 01:30:29.550
Yeah, yeah. And I think with Dusty too, it's just
1924
01:30:29.569 --> 01:30:31.770
kind of the way he booked himself, I think was
1925
01:30:31.810 --> 01:30:34.989
born out of, it seemed like there was an undercurrent
1926
01:30:35.010 --> 01:30:38.979
of insecurity despite this great gift he had for Gab
1927
01:30:39.119 --> 01:30:41.539
and for, and the charisma and the way he carried himself.
1928
01:30:42.140 --> 01:30:43.319
It almost seemed like there was a little bit of
1929
01:30:43.340 --> 01:30:46.069
an insecurity there that caused him to overcompensate in the
1930
01:30:46.090 --> 01:30:48.390
way that he booked other people around him when he
1931
01:30:48.430 --> 01:30:50.090
was Booker. You know, all the bumps and.
1932
01:30:51.930 --> 01:30:54.210
There's a lot of them like that. Jerry Lawler's like that.
1933
01:30:54.270 --> 01:30:56.430
Jerry doesn't care about the whole card. He just worries
1934
01:30:56.470 --> 01:30:59.750
about the main event. Now, see, I literally like booking,
1935
01:30:59.770 --> 01:31:02.789
and I like pulling all the strings on the puppets.
1936
01:31:02.869 --> 01:31:04.850
I wanted them all to dance when I pulled the strings.
1937
01:31:05.149 --> 01:31:08.500
They just like themselves to dance and their opponent, and
1938
01:31:08.520 --> 01:31:11.140
they don't really care about the rest of it. They're there,
1939
01:31:11.199 --> 01:31:13.840
but they're, ah, well, so what? But I did. I
1940
01:31:13.880 --> 01:31:15.600
cared for the first one. I did a program with
1941
01:31:15.619 --> 01:31:19.500
Frank Morrell as the spoiler, and Bobby Fulton, who became
1942
01:31:19.560 --> 01:31:22.670
one of the fantastics, for about 12 weeks in Nashville.
1943
01:31:23.390 --> 01:31:27.109
It was the first match. And when Bobby Fulton finally
1944
01:31:27.170 --> 01:31:29.750
beat him on about the 10th of whatever week it was,
1945
01:31:29.770 --> 01:31:33.100
it was way up there, the roof came off the place.
1946
01:31:33.789 --> 01:31:36.489
Because the people got involved in it. I got involved
1947
01:31:36.569 --> 01:31:38.289
in it. They got involved in it. It was a
1948
01:31:38.329 --> 01:31:41.670
first-match program, and we were shooting an angle damn near
1949
01:31:41.729 --> 01:31:46.699
every Saturday night on the first match. So I enjoyed
1950
01:31:46.760 --> 01:31:47.819
that kind of stuff.
1951
01:31:47.979 --> 01:31:51.699
Yeah. And, yeah, not every booker who was a star
1952
01:31:52.319 --> 01:31:56.119
enjoyed investing time and energy into creating a new star
1953
01:31:56.579 --> 01:31:58.010
from the undercard. Right. Yeah.
1954
01:31:58.600 --> 01:32:00.609
I didn't mind that. And I hated being on last.
1955
01:32:00.829 --> 01:32:03.109
I was on last with Lawler, and I hated it.
1956
01:32:03.699 --> 01:32:06.050
I would rather, when I booked it, I would rather
1957
01:32:06.119 --> 01:32:10.050
be the first angle right after intermission. The people have
1958
01:32:10.149 --> 01:32:12.149
all went to the little boys' room, girls' room, got
1959
01:32:12.170 --> 01:32:14.109
them a beer, got this, got that, got them a
1960
01:32:14.270 --> 01:32:17.630
piece of popcorn, sat back down, and they've sat and
1961
01:32:17.670 --> 01:32:20.729
watched four boring matches. Now here it comes, the first
1962
01:32:20.829 --> 01:32:23.770
angle off television. The roof comes off the place when
1963
01:32:23.789 --> 01:32:26.949
they see you. But the crime law would sometimes be
1964
01:32:26.970 --> 01:32:31.109
the main event, say we brought in whoever, Yeah, they
1965
01:32:31.149 --> 01:32:32.930
would talk for him. They would talk for Kerry if
1966
01:32:32.949 --> 01:32:36.250
they were doing that thing or whoever. But they're tired
1967
01:32:36.310 --> 01:32:36.710
of it.
1968
01:32:38.470 --> 01:32:38.710
Now.
1969
01:32:38.750 --> 01:32:40.779
So that's the match I used to like doing. The
1970
01:32:40.800 --> 01:32:41.380
middle of the court.
1971
01:32:53.829 --> 01:32:57.409
A weekly VIP exclusive. Every week, I break down four
1972
01:32:57.449 --> 01:33:00.380
or five of the biggest trending topics in pro wrestling.
1973
01:33:00.680 --> 01:33:03.859
I also present my analysis, providing insight that helps you
1974
01:33:03.920 --> 01:33:06.659
understand the story better or see it another way than
1975
01:33:06.720 --> 01:33:09.739
maybe is the controversial take out there. Then I bring
1976
01:33:09.819 --> 01:33:12.239
on a special guest for the second half of the podcast.
1977
01:33:12.439 --> 01:33:15.020
Sometimes it's a wrestler or someone else who works in
1978
01:33:15.039 --> 01:33:17.720
the business. Other times it's a guest analyst who brings
1979
01:33:17.739 --> 01:33:21.000
their specialized point of view on a particular key topic
1980
01:33:21.039 --> 01:33:24.100
in the news. Recent guests have included Bronson Reed from
1981
01:33:24.350 --> 01:33:27.220
WWE and PCO. One of my areas of specialty is
1982
01:33:27.239 --> 01:33:29.720
the Japan wrestling scene, so I often cover a big
1983
01:33:29.779 --> 01:33:34.020
topic from Japan with PW Torch's own Alan Farrell, Kelly Wells,
1984
01:33:34.260 --> 01:33:37.149
and Chris Lansdell. I don't just cover the news. I
1985
01:33:37.159 --> 01:33:39.189
don't just riff on the news or give a standard
1986
01:33:39.210 --> 01:33:42.090
hot take. I'll bring my decades of studying this industry
1987
01:33:42.130 --> 01:33:45.789
and talking one-on-one with dozens of wrestling promoters to each
1988
01:33:45.850 --> 01:33:49.100
week's show so you understand not just what's happening, but
1989
01:33:49.140 --> 01:33:52.079
the context of why. Get ahead of the news. Get
1990
01:33:52.140 --> 01:33:59.840
ahead of the pack with Ratican Worldwide only at PWTorch VIP.
1991
01:34:00.399 --> 01:34:02.079
Tell me a little bit about the differences between when
1992
01:34:02.119 --> 01:34:05.340
Jerry Lawler and Jerry Jarrett would switch off booking in Memphis.
1993
01:34:05.840 --> 01:34:08.619
How were they different as bookers in terms of the
1994
01:34:08.640 --> 01:34:10.699
way they approached things and the way that they executed
1995
01:34:10.720 --> 01:34:11.079
their job?
1996
01:34:13.180 --> 01:34:16.720
Well, Jerry, he always took the summer. He brought in
1997
01:34:16.720 --> 01:34:18.619
30 guys. It's really easy to feed them in the summer.
1998
01:34:18.640 --> 01:34:21.399
You can run down to night sometimes. Or, you know,
1999
01:34:21.420 --> 01:34:25.829
did so. And then when Jared did it, I did it,
2000
01:34:25.850 --> 01:34:28.710
or helped Jared, there would be 10 guys. It's a
2001
01:34:28.750 --> 01:34:31.850
lot harder to book 10 guys for nine months than
2002
01:34:31.880 --> 01:34:34.880
it is to book 30 guys for three months. Mm-hmm.
2003
01:34:35.199 --> 01:34:40.600
Yeah. Was Jerry more into booking the entire card? I'm sorry,
2004
01:34:40.640 --> 01:34:42.810
Jerry Jarrett, was he more into booking the entire card?
2005
01:34:43.199 --> 01:34:45.170
Jerry didn't pay as much. I know Jerry liked to
2006
01:34:45.189 --> 01:34:48.170
bring Frankenstein or the gorilla or something like that.
2007
01:34:48.189 --> 01:34:50.189
Yeah, he did a lot of silly stuff like that. Yeah,
2008
01:34:50.210 --> 01:34:52.569
he always had monsters. He was a summertime booker. He
2009
01:34:52.609 --> 01:34:55.390
liked it and worked for them. Yeah, Jerry took care
2010
01:34:55.409 --> 01:34:55.949
of everybody.
2011
01:34:56.409 --> 01:35:00.590
Yeah, yep. Just a couple more questions here before we
2012
01:35:00.710 --> 01:35:02.569
wrap up. It's been great having you on the show today.
2013
01:35:05.770 --> 01:35:07.689
What was the most lucrative period of your career?
2014
01:35:11.909 --> 01:35:17.729
From about 75 to 80 or 90, because then it
2015
01:35:17.810 --> 01:35:20.850
all started going downhill, and Tennessee Jeff came along, and
2016
01:35:20.939 --> 01:35:25.699
all the things changed. Life was just a-changing. Yeah, yeah.
2017
01:35:26.060 --> 01:35:28.020
But it was good to me. I can't knock Tennessee
2018
01:35:28.039 --> 01:35:30.239
or anything else. I made a fortune for Bill Watts.
2019
01:35:30.319 --> 01:35:33.159
I did 100, whatever it was, three grand a week
2020
01:35:33.199 --> 01:35:36.479
for Ted Turner, or walk around an office and pretend
2021
01:35:36.550 --> 01:35:39.130
I was something I wasn't, because you wasn't allowed to
2022
01:35:39.170 --> 01:35:41.989
do nothing. You just walked around and got your paycheck.
2023
01:35:42.770 --> 01:35:44.350
So the rest of the business has been good to
2024
01:35:44.369 --> 01:35:47.189
me for a guy that's 5'7 and 210 pounds.
2025
01:35:49.329 --> 01:35:50.390
You don't have to answer this if you don't want,
2026
01:35:50.430 --> 01:35:53.970
but between 75 and 85, do you mind saying where
2027
01:35:54.010 --> 01:35:55.750
your income peaked, roughly?
2028
01:35:58.569 --> 01:36:00.430
No, because it was all good. It never really peaked.
2029
01:36:00.470 --> 01:36:03.050
It was all, the Watts was good. You know, Crockett
2030
01:36:03.069 --> 01:36:05.250
was good. And I'll tell you whatever you want to
2031
01:36:05.270 --> 01:36:08.010
call it. Javits was good. Then it wasn't until the
2032
01:36:08.029 --> 01:36:13.010
business started going down. You know, your, and then capacity
2033
01:36:13.050 --> 01:36:14.470
went down. So it was all good for me.
2034
01:36:15.109 --> 01:36:19.710
Was good income just $ 100, 000 to $ 250, 000? Was that kind
2035
01:36:19.729 --> 01:36:21.689
of a typical range?
2036
01:36:21.689 --> 01:36:23.529
$ 250, 000, but yeah, $ 100, 000 to $ 100, 000 and a half was,
2037
01:36:23.569 --> 01:36:25.470
you know, back in that day, that's pretty good money.
2038
01:36:25.869 --> 01:36:26.489
Yeah, absolutely.
2039
01:36:26.510 --> 01:36:29.359
And you're home every night. And gas was 40 cents
2040
01:36:29.439 --> 01:36:31.680
a gallon. The new Cadillac was 12 grand.
2041
01:36:32.260 --> 01:36:33.960
Yeah. Oh, 150 went a long way.
2042
01:36:34.000 --> 01:36:37.819
My first house I told you about was $ 36, 000. Brand
2043
01:36:38.119 --> 01:36:41.560
spanking new. Three bedrooms, two car garage, lounge room, all
2044
01:36:41.579 --> 01:36:45.699
the things, two bathrooms. $ 36, 000. I have a Cadillac sitting
2045
01:36:45.739 --> 01:36:47.989
outside here. The frigging Cadillac was 40 grand.
2046
01:36:49.310 --> 01:36:51.630
What do you think Jerry Jarrett's best year was, making
2047
01:36:51.649 --> 01:36:53.970
money as a promoter? I haven't got a clue.
2048
01:36:54.069 --> 01:36:55.689
I don't know how much he stole. I don't have
2049
01:36:55.729 --> 01:36:57.859
a frigging clue. I know he built a great big
2050
01:36:57.920 --> 01:37:01.100
house that made Lawland Lance Russell nuts. But anyway, that's
2051
01:37:01.159 --> 01:37:02.380
another story. That's in the book.
2052
01:37:03.180 --> 01:37:04.000
Yeah, yep.
2053
01:37:04.800 --> 01:37:07.600
One more question. You never knew what he would make. Well,
2054
01:37:07.619 --> 01:37:08.159
it doesn't matter.
2055
01:37:10.159 --> 01:37:11.829
Well, Jerry told me he was willing to open up
2056
01:37:11.850 --> 01:37:13.970
the book to the wrestlers, let them look at the ledger,
2057
01:37:14.590 --> 01:37:15.529
and show.
2058
01:37:15.569 --> 01:37:18.609
Who did he ever open them up to? He didn't
2059
01:37:18.670 --> 01:37:21.090
even look at Jerry Lawland. That's how they all fell out.
2060
01:37:21.369 --> 01:37:23.350
Don't get me started here, brother. I get hot in
2061
01:37:23.390 --> 01:37:24.609
a minute here when you start all that.
2062
01:37:25.100 --> 01:37:26.560
I should pull those books out, yeah.
2063
01:37:26.760 --> 01:37:30.319
And I know what he did. That's why Jared Lawler
2064
01:37:30.359 --> 01:37:33.039
tried to steal the territory, because he promised him 10
2065
01:37:33.039 --> 01:37:34.869
more percent and said he forgot to give it to him.
2066
01:37:35.100 --> 01:37:36.770
How do you forget to give a man what you
2067
01:37:36.779 --> 01:37:38.649
promised him? Yeah, yeah.
2068
01:37:39.189 --> 01:37:40.810
Yeah, I think Jerry said he, like, you know, he
2069
01:37:40.829 --> 01:37:44.310
took X percent off the top for himself after expenses,
2070
01:37:44.350 --> 01:37:45.670
and he would open up the books and pay, he
2071
01:37:45.890 --> 01:37:48.649
paid the rest, and the main guy got the most.
2072
01:37:48.850 --> 01:37:51.130
He had his accountant. You never saw the books. You
2073
01:37:51.149 --> 01:37:51.760
got a check.
2074
01:37:52.310 --> 01:37:57.300
Yeah, yeah. what do you think you would have done
2075
01:37:57.899 --> 01:37:59.100
if you hadn't become a pro wrestler?
2076
01:38:00.239 --> 01:38:02.060
I would never give it no thought to start off
2077
01:38:02.100 --> 01:38:03.890
in the circus. I've been staying in the circus and
2078
01:38:03.939 --> 01:38:05.270
back in the circus now. As a matter of fact,
2079
01:38:05.289 --> 01:38:07.270
I worked for Cold Brothers in nine months of the year.
2080
01:38:07.529 --> 01:38:11.770
But anyway, I don't know. I like the circus, but
2081
01:38:12.550 --> 01:38:14.170
I never thought I would never make it as a
2082
01:38:14.189 --> 01:38:15.430
pro wrestler. Yeah.
2083
01:38:17.090 --> 01:38:20.510
So what are you doing in the circus now?
2084
01:38:21.869 --> 01:38:22.609
Locker and director.
2085
01:38:23.649 --> 01:38:26.479
Cool. How many shows are you part of? Tell me
2086
01:38:26.500 --> 01:38:27.119
a little more about that.
2087
01:38:27.479 --> 01:38:31.140
We start in March. and go all the way at
2088
01:38:31.149 --> 01:38:33.239
the end of November, and we leave the land, Florida,
2089
01:38:33.260 --> 01:38:34.659
and go all the way up to New York and
2090
01:38:34.699 --> 01:38:36.600
turn around and come back down. But we never leave
2091
01:38:36.619 --> 01:38:37.819
the 95 corridor.
2092
01:38:38.399 --> 01:38:39.180
Yeah.
2093
01:38:39.380 --> 01:38:42.340
And it takes nine months. So you're out there nine
2094
01:38:42.359 --> 01:38:45.859
months all by your lonesome. And you just say the
2095
01:38:45.899 --> 01:38:49.180
word circus instead of wrestling. Same thing. You come out there.
2096
01:38:49.909 --> 01:38:51.949
You're trying to get people into a tent instead of
2097
01:38:51.970 --> 01:38:54.100
into a building to watch wrestling. You want them to
2098
01:38:54.140 --> 01:38:58.399
watch elephants and tigers and clowns and motorcycles and all
2099
01:38:58.420 --> 01:39:00.159
kinds of things.
2100
01:39:00.500 --> 01:39:02.970
Are there stars of the circus, like Jerry Lawler and
2101
01:39:02.989 --> 01:39:04.090
you were stars of Memphis?
2102
01:39:04.189 --> 01:39:09.449
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, do you remember Gunther Williams when
2103
01:39:09.489 --> 01:39:12.970
he worked for Clyde Beatty? I've been for Ringling Brothers.
2104
01:39:12.989 --> 01:39:15.329
He had all of the tigers and the leopards and
2105
01:39:15.390 --> 01:39:17.289
all the things. He was the star. He was the best,
2106
01:39:17.390 --> 01:39:19.649
one of the best animal trailers ever.
2107
01:39:20.069 --> 01:39:20.369
Yeah.
2108
01:39:21.289 --> 01:39:24.869
Gunther Williams. So, you know, he was the star. Then
2109
01:39:24.909 --> 01:39:26.930
you have the guys that have the elephants and you
2110
01:39:26.970 --> 01:39:28.850
have the tiger. It all depends what you like. Some
2111
01:39:28.890 --> 01:39:32.600
people think different things of stars. The flying trapeze. I
2112
01:39:32.619 --> 01:39:35.760
love the trapeze. I think they're stars in their own right.
2113
01:39:36.170 --> 01:39:38.090
And I like the cat acts. I like the guys
2114
01:39:38.109 --> 01:39:39.649
that teach the cats, you know. And I did the
2115
01:39:39.689 --> 01:39:43.710
elephants in Australia, so I really love elephants. So, you know, yeah,
2116
01:39:43.729 --> 01:39:44.369
we have stars.
2117
01:39:45.630 --> 01:39:48.560
Yep, very cool, very cool. Well, Bill, thanks so much.
2118
01:39:48.920 --> 01:39:52.340
Your time is very generous here, 90 minutes, spending time
2119
01:39:52.359 --> 01:39:56.300
talking to our listeners and answering a lot of our questions.
2120
01:39:56.340 --> 01:39:58.300
So it's just been a pleasure. I've enjoyed the heck
2121
01:39:58.319 --> 01:40:01.680
of talking to you and talking about everything from the
2122
01:40:01.720 --> 01:40:06.630
circus to the circus WCW days, all the way back
2123
01:40:06.670 --> 01:40:09.350
to Memphis, and of course the Memphis Heat documentary. I, again,
2124
01:40:09.630 --> 01:40:12.470
just can't stress enough. I just think people who like
2125
01:40:12.520 --> 01:40:15.039
pro wrestling need to order the Memphis Heat documentary. Bill,
2126
01:40:15.060 --> 01:40:17.060
you were a big part of that. Just a couple
2127
01:40:17.100 --> 01:40:19.039
final questions, actually, on the documentary, just so we kind
2128
01:40:19.060 --> 01:40:20.500
of end on that note, because I know you want
2129
01:40:20.539 --> 01:40:22.960
people to order this documentary, too, and it's a good
2130
01:40:22.979 --> 01:40:25.739
chronicle of what you did and some of your peak years.
2131
01:40:26.109 --> 01:40:29.090
How did the process work? Jerry Jarrett said he turned,
2132
01:40:29.149 --> 01:40:30.909
I think he said he turned them down right away,
2133
01:40:31.270 --> 01:40:33.689
and then you ended up encouraging him to participate in
2134
01:40:34.270 --> 01:40:37.850
Tell me about the actual documentary people, how they approached you,
2135
01:40:37.909 --> 01:40:39.489
and why you decided to participate.
2136
01:40:42.090 --> 01:40:46.029
Just like I told you before, they had already basically
2137
01:40:46.100 --> 01:40:49.420
made it, so it wasn't nothing I could do to
2138
01:40:49.460 --> 01:40:53.300
stop it. Jerry Lawler sold them all the stuff for 10%,
2139
01:40:53.300 --> 01:40:56.420
gave them whatever he was supposed to get, gave them
2140
01:40:56.460 --> 01:40:59.779
most of the footage. They put it together, so it
2141
01:40:59.819 --> 01:41:03.739
was already together. So now they wanted me, Lawler, and
2142
01:41:03.779 --> 01:41:06.189
Calhoun to come down to the Coliseum one day, and
2143
01:41:06.199 --> 01:41:07.989
they paid us a set fee to go down there.
2144
01:41:08.550 --> 01:41:10.050
So I wasn't going to go, and I thought, well,
2145
01:41:10.069 --> 01:41:14.270
I ain't doing this. Then I got to thinking, just ego,
2146
01:41:14.329 --> 01:41:16.890
I guess, or whatever. I have every tape that they
2147
01:41:16.909 --> 01:41:20.479
have in my house. I can show you that documentary
2148
01:41:21.079 --> 01:41:24.880
in my house, because I have every tape that they have,
2149
01:41:25.399 --> 01:41:28.119
and some more. So anyway, I thought, well, this will
2150
01:41:28.159 --> 01:41:31.489
be great. It'll be on a documentary. And 100 years
2151
01:41:31.550 --> 01:41:33.569
from now, somebody will put one up and pull it
2152
01:41:33.670 --> 01:41:37.489
out and say, this is Memphis Wrestling 100 years ago.
2153
01:41:37.810 --> 01:41:40.899
And I'll be part of it. So that was nice. Well, hell,
2154
01:41:40.939 --> 01:41:42.680
I'm going to go do that interview. And off I
2155
01:41:42.720 --> 01:41:45.800
went and did it. Yeah. And that's what you see
2156
01:41:45.840 --> 01:41:48.880
is walking around the thing and they're interviewing us today.
2157
01:41:51.060 --> 01:41:53.479
And a final question on your book. How long have
2158
01:41:53.520 --> 01:41:55.590
you been working on it and what made you decide
2159
01:41:55.609 --> 01:41:56.069
to write a book?
2160
01:41:57.210 --> 01:41:58.750
Because I read a bunch of the other ones and
2161
01:41:58.770 --> 01:42:04.819
they're complete. Nothing's, you know, just nothing. They're not telling
2162
01:42:04.859 --> 01:42:06.819
the truth. They ain't saying this and that. I mean,
2163
01:42:06.859 --> 01:42:09.420
nobody really knocked nobody. You don't knock anybody if you
2164
01:42:09.460 --> 01:42:10.920
tell them the truth. But if you tell them the truth,
2165
01:42:10.960 --> 01:42:12.319
you can't get married because it's the truth.
2166
01:42:12.720 --> 01:42:14.180
Yeah.
2167
01:42:14.239 --> 01:42:15.960
Who have you read? You know, you talk to some
2168
01:42:15.979 --> 01:42:17.960
of them and all the other ones. Dutch, I said, Dutch,
2169
01:42:17.979 --> 01:42:19.930
did you? He said, what does my book say, Bill?
2170
01:42:20.409 --> 01:42:22.930
I said, the wrestling according to Dutch. He said, okay,
2171
01:42:22.970 --> 01:42:24.989
you write your book anyhow you like. So what's he
2172
01:42:25.029 --> 01:42:29.350
telling you? He knows what it's about, you know. So,
2173
01:42:29.369 --> 01:42:31.949
you know, I've read part of his. And one of
2174
01:42:31.970 --> 01:42:34.989
the other ones I like is Dan Tambunos, Henry Wimple,
2175
01:42:35.010 --> 01:42:38.520
who was up there in his books. I read part
2176
01:42:38.560 --> 01:42:41.699
of his. So mine, I'm just telling you the two
2177
01:42:41.760 --> 01:42:44.699
stories of how I saw it in Memphis. And you
2178
01:42:44.739 --> 01:42:46.260
saw the sheet that he sent you.
2179
01:42:46.680 --> 01:42:48.760
I wasn't able to tell. Did you like Dutch's book?
2180
01:42:48.779 --> 01:42:50.520
Was he one of them from what you've read that
2181
01:42:50.539 --> 01:42:51.199
you thought was truthful?
2182
01:42:53.840 --> 01:42:56.149
What did I just say? I called him up and said, hey, man,
2183
01:42:56.159 --> 01:42:58.489
you start everybody in this business? He said, what does
2184
01:42:58.550 --> 01:43:01.289
it say? The name of my book is Wrestling According
2185
01:43:01.310 --> 01:43:03.210
to Dutch. So he's telling you that he doesn't care
2186
01:43:03.250 --> 01:43:03.970
what you think of it?
2187
01:43:04.630 --> 01:43:08.449
That's what I was trying to ascertain from what you said, yeah.
2188
01:43:08.689 --> 01:43:10.250
What other books have you read that you didn't like
2189
01:43:10.270 --> 01:43:12.430
that inspired you to write your own?
2190
01:43:13.670 --> 01:43:15.449
Well, I didn't read any. I just read parts of them.
2191
01:43:15.470 --> 01:43:17.729
There's one part of it that you just think, well,
2192
01:43:17.750 --> 01:43:21.640
this is not right. I was there. So I was there. And,
2193
01:43:21.899 --> 01:43:24.819
you know, so I'll give him my version. You know,
2194
01:43:24.859 --> 01:43:27.140
I'm sure we all have them. I mean, Jared has
2195
01:43:27.180 --> 01:43:29.310
his version of the split with Lawler and Lance, and
2196
01:43:29.390 --> 01:43:31.869
I have mine. And I was there. I had nothing
2197
01:43:31.909 --> 01:43:33.710
in it, so I just sat and observed. So you
2198
01:43:33.729 --> 01:43:36.670
tell me who's paying attention more, me or them. We're
2199
01:43:36.729 --> 01:43:39.069
all trying to figure one out and not give nothing away.
2200
01:43:39.909 --> 01:43:41.890
Jerry Lawler's trying to get as much as he can
2201
01:43:41.930 --> 01:43:44.829
from Jerry Jarrett, and Jerry Jarrett's trying to give him nothing.
2202
01:43:45.130 --> 01:43:47.390
And that's basically what that meeting was about. Then they
2203
01:43:47.449 --> 01:43:50.529
agreed on something. and everybody else was flung under the bus.
2204
01:43:50.909 --> 01:43:51.489
Whose story?
2205
01:43:52.409 --> 01:43:56.170
Well, I think those who watched the documentary are going
2206
01:43:56.189 --> 01:43:58.729
to be more interested in reading your book because the documentary,
2207
01:43:59.130 --> 01:44:02.380
to me, left me wanting more. It's not even a criticism.
2208
01:44:02.420 --> 01:44:04.760
It's more of a compliment, I guess. I wanted that
2209
01:44:04.819 --> 01:44:07.880
documentary to be six hours, and I think you could
2210
01:44:07.899 --> 01:44:10.819
have done it easily. There were so many things even
2211
01:44:10.939 --> 01:44:13.489
I know about, and I didn't start seeing Memphis Wrestling
2212
01:44:13.510 --> 01:44:14.720
until videotape trading in the 80s.
2213
01:44:15.880 --> 01:44:18.840
Yeah, but they may not have the six hours.
2214
01:44:18.560 --> 01:44:19.039
To put on it.
2215
01:44:19.779 --> 01:44:24.899
Well, even the extended interviews, just more narrative with photos,
2216
01:44:24.939 --> 01:44:27.520
talking in depth about some stories. I mean, I know
2217
01:44:27.659 --> 01:44:30.279
I've interviewed Lance Russell and Jerry Lawler and Dave Brown
2218
01:44:30.319 --> 01:44:33.920
and Dutch Mantel. In your book, I'm sure there'd be
2219
01:44:33.960 --> 01:44:36.859
more stories you could have extracted and included. But you
2220
01:44:37.350 --> 01:44:39.270
want to leave people wanting more with the documentary. There's
2221
01:44:39.310 --> 01:44:41.170
no way in an hour and a half you can
2222
01:44:41.189 --> 01:44:45.899
tell every complete story. But I like the... I like
2223
01:44:45.920 --> 01:44:47.819
the idea that you've got a book coming out and
2224
01:44:48.460 --> 01:44:50.760
it's going to tell a lot more stories in more
2225
01:44:50.779 --> 01:44:53.180
detail that we're kind of left with just a teaser
2226
01:44:53.239 --> 01:44:55.510
of during the documentary. Right.
2227
01:44:55.590 --> 01:44:58.430
And I understand that. And nobody's going to say nothing
2228
01:44:58.470 --> 01:45:01.670
about silly things that we did as far as, you know,
2229
01:45:02.010 --> 01:45:04.670
wild whatever. You know what I mean? We've all did
2230
01:45:04.909 --> 01:45:06.529
the silly things that we shouldn't have done. So I'm
2231
01:45:06.550 --> 01:45:08.409
not talking about that end of our life. I'm just
2232
01:45:08.430 --> 01:45:10.930
talking about if somebody screwed you on a payoff or
2233
01:45:10.970 --> 01:45:12.489
did this or did that, that's what we did.
2234
01:45:13.069 --> 01:45:13.210
So.
2235
01:45:13.810 --> 01:45:15.680
By the way, it'll be at December 1. I hope
2236
01:45:15.720 --> 01:45:18.720
everybody buys it, and I've enjoyed this interview, and my son-in-law,
2237
01:45:18.760 --> 01:45:20.920
Bobby Eaton, he wants to go eat, so.
2238
01:45:21.619 --> 01:45:23.979
Perfect timing, then. Thanks, Bill, so much, and when the
2239
01:45:24.020 --> 01:45:25.510
book comes out, I would love to have you on again,
2240
01:45:25.550 --> 01:45:26.689
so I'll be in touch to see if we can
2241
01:45:26.710 --> 01:45:27.149
make that work.
2242
01:45:27.770 --> 01:45:29.470
Brother, I've got your stuff, so I'll keep in touch
2243
01:45:29.510 --> 01:45:31.710
with you in December. The first we're shooting for, and
2244
01:45:32.130 --> 01:45:34.380
I think the readers will enjoy it if they like
2245
01:45:34.439 --> 01:45:35.659
Bill Dundee and Memphis Wrestling.
2246
01:45:36.189 --> 01:45:36.550
Excellent.
2247
01:45:36.569 --> 01:45:39.390
Bill, superstar Bill Dundee, everybody. It's been a pleasure. Thanks
2248
01:45:39.569 --> 01:45:41.869
on behalf of all the listeners for joining us, Bill.
2249
01:45:42.310 --> 01:45:44.449
And until next time, on behalf of Bill Dundee, this
2250
01:45:44.569 --> 01:46:08.279
is PWTorch editor Wade Keller signing off. Your time is valuable.
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