OM DENNE EPISODE
Where do you go when a 31-year military career ends and the uniform comes off? For retired Chief Master Sergeant Jay France, the answer began with a 2,653-mile walk along the Pacific Crest Trail.
In this episode of Unbreakable Leadership, host Peter Pollock sits down with retired Chief Master Sergeant Jay France, former Command Senior Enlisted Leader of United States Transportation Command (USTRANSCOM) and author of Five Million Steps.
Jay opens up about a 31-year Air Force career that began with a teacher who saw something in him no one else did. He shares the difficult conversation with a chief that brought him down a few notches, a conversation he didn't know he needed but one that shaped his entire leadership philosophy.
Jay reveals his biggest leadership failure, not getting the mental health care he needed for years. After four deployments to Afghanistan and three to Iraq, the weight caught up with him. As a base command chief during a growing mental health crisis, he sat in rooms with senior leaders discussing the very problem he was hiding.
Jay also walks through his remarkable transition, leaving the stage on April 1, 2021, and starting the Pacific Crest Trail just two weeks later. All 2,653 miles from Mexico to Canada, not as a stunt but as a deliberate act of self-discovery. He needed to figure out who "Jay" was without the chief stripes.
The conversation explores how calm is contagious and so is chaos, why leaders must meet people where they are rather than forcing conformity, and how today's younger generation is more informed and inquisitive, which is a gift, not a threat.
Peter also shares his own transition story, including the parking lot phone call that landed him his first post-military job, and offers hard-won advice for veterans: take the time you deserve and don't expect the corporate world to mirror the military.
Listen now to learn how to lead with authenticity, build resilience, and navigate your own journey of growth, whether in the military, corporate world, or everyday life.
Key Takeaways
Calm is contagious, but chaos spreads just as quickly in leadership environments
Difficult conversations are part of caring for the people you lead
Sharing your story creates connection and helps others feel less alone
Mentorship works best when leaders meet people where they are
Leadership requires constant evolution, especially with younger generations
Too much information can lead to decision paralysis for leaders
Combat experiences shape leadership perspectives for life
Transitioning from military service requires time to rediscover purpose
Leaders cannot care for others if they neglect their own well-being
The corporate world does not value military leadership the same way
Success isn't winning awards; it's having people call you years later to ask you to retire them
In This Episode
[00:00] Introduction to the podcast and guest
[01:14] Jay France’s background and Air Force career
[03:09] Hiking the Pacific Crest Trail after retirement
[05:25] One story that defines Jay’s leadership philosophy
[09:11] Taking Five Million Steps
[10:08] The one message behind the book Five Million Steps
[16:08] A real example of calm leadership during a crisis
[21:21] Why leaders must keep evolving with younger generations
[28:46] The one piece of advice for transitioning life after a 30-year career
[33:24] The one failure that shaped Jay’s greatest lesson
[42:54] Peter’s advice about mistakes
[44:40] Peter’s advice about success
[47:16] Peter’s advice for veterans transitioning from service
Resources and Links
Jay France
Five Million Steps: https://www.amazon.com/Five-Million-Steps-Pacific-Decades/dp/B0D94X9RXG
Peter Pollock
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/peterpollock1/
Book: Leadership: The Good, Bad and Ugly https://www.amazon.com/Leadership-Good-Ugly-Peter-Pollock/dp/108802842X
