Navy SEAL Makes Shocking Claims About Prominent SEALs | Eric Deming | Ep. 281

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Operations, Coberts Spionage, The Team
House with Your Hopes, Jack Murphy and
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David Bark the episode two and eighty
one of The Team House. I'm Jack
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Murphy here with Dave park. Our
guest on tonight's episode is Eric Deming.
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Eric served as a diver in the
Navy and then went on to also served
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as a seal afterwards, almost I
think twenty seven years in the Navy all
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told twenty of them as a seal. And he's also a bit of a
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whistleblower, so we'll talk about that
as well. Before we jump into the
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interview, I just want to tell
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we really appreciate it. So thank
you, Eric, Welcome to the
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show man, Jack Dave, thanks
for having me on. And I liked
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the introduction a little bit because it
went to the Navy diver's side a little
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bit, which it was a great
time of my career. Also it was
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you know, it wasn't that long, but it was long enough for me
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to really enjoy it. And then
as a seal and then here recently,
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yeah, a whistle blow Actually,
even when I was in the time,
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you know, acted there was I
followed an IG complaint against some of these
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you know guys that were doing some
things wrong in my community. And I'll
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get into that here. Yeah,
yeah, I'd like to start off first
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off if you tell us a little
bit about like how you grew up and
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how that took you into the Navy
and kind of what your your path was
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there. Yeah. So I was
born in Boston, Massachusetts, but grew
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up most of my life in Florida. When uh, fifth grade, my
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parents got divorced, I moved back
up to the Boston area. Uh,
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right outside of Boston. It's called
Chelsea. It's a it was. I
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was a minority, being a white
guy there, and uh so it was
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a lot of street fighting things along
those lines in the inner city because I,
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you know, I came from Florida
a little bit different than them,
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so I kind of stood out.
So there's a lot of you know,
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fighting that got involved with as a
kid growing up. So I was kind
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of a little bit roughy, and
my my dad wasn't the best example of
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a father, so I learned a
lot of what not to do. But
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then at a point in my life, I go back down to Florida and
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my stepfather had a good friend.
His name was Buck Buckles, and uh
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he kind of took me under like
a grandson. And this was the first
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person that in my life that I
considered a mentor somebody that I looked up
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to. He had perfect family life, somebody that would just stood out,
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did everything right, and and I
wanted to emulate somebody like him. And
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he was the one that encouraged me
the whole military and was the example.
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And you know, his whole family
just great people. One of the best
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you know families that I could ever
say in America is you know, the
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Buckles family and all his kids and
grandkids and anyway, so that's who encouraged
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me. And uh, and I
think put me on the right path.
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And what was that path? So
so I joined an eighty coming from a
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small town in Florida, when when
I say my graduating class was one hundred,
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right at one hundred, we were
when I say we're agricultural, we
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were out in the middle of the
sticks, and we were pretty much redneck,
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you know, as far as but
it really you know, taught me
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how to fix my own stuff,
how to shoot, how to swim,
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how to you know, do a
lot of different things to survive. And
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so I appreciate it. And he
I call my grandfather buck He grew up
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during the Depression, so he taught
me a lot of these skills. And
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a lot of these different things.
So it was a great time in my
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life, you know, learning all
that stuff. So when it was time
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for me to graduate high school,
I was just like, okay, college
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wasn't probably you know, the right
thing for me. And he said,
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well, maybe should think about,
you know, the military, and that's
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what encouraged me. I had an
uncle that was in the Navy, so
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I joined the Navy and I ended
up he talked me into the electronics,
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which was you know, a be
honest electronics, which was not something that
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I took to very well. But
I got to work up on a flight
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deck sending aircraft off as far as
but you know, you start off as
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a plane captain up there in a
squadron. Then you get to work on
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your aircraft, and then you get
to be the guy if you're doing everything
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right, and you get your head
on the swibvel and you can operate up
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on the flight deck with a lot
of dangerous stuff kind of happened, and
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you can be the final checker,
which is a guy wears a white shirt
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and checkered and you basically as it's
up on the catapult getting ready to launch
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off, you go into it and
you check certain things and make sure everything
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looks like it's going to go off
the front of the pointing end and actually
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fly. Are you the guy that
to the guy? That's the guy that
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you tell him that he could do
that? So I tell him that,
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I give him the thumbs up,
like you know, on my side of
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the aircraft. Another guy on the
other side. They tell them that guy
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like, hey, this plane's good
to go, and then he he sends
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it off. So yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the guy you see.
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You'll see the supervisor. Yeah,
well we're running in there. Well,
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this thing's under full throttle you as
far as things can happen or whatever.
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But it was it was an exciting
time. I enjoyed it. But
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then I I got into the diving
Navy after that, and so in ninety
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when I joined in eighty seven.
In ninety one, I go to dive
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school, second class dive school,
and become a Navy diver. And that
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was another great part of my career
that I really loved and enjoyed. And
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if I didn't get accepted into the
sealed teams, or if I didn't make
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it through buds, I would have
been happy just doing that. The rest
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of my life. Even though I
as a diver, I worked at an
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EOD command as far as and I
got in. I was in reserve for
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a short period of time also,
and I went through an EOD reserve course
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that they had and uh and you
know, during that time I was,
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I had was there stale of the
year and it kind of advanced up a
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little bit further to different levels.
And when it was time for me to
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decide what I was going to do
with the rest of my life, I
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wanted to go back into the Navy
active duty. But I had already screened
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positive to go to BUDS. I
had all the screening tests done, but
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the diving detailer at the time said, nope, if you're coming back in
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the Navy. Because I was in
the reserves, I was a first class
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petty officer, and I said,
hey, I'm rulling to come in.
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I'm ready to go down to E
five. I'll sign whatever contract you want
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me to sign. I just want
I get the chance to go to BUDS.
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And the diving dtailer was just like, Nope, if you're coming in,
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you're go into a junk boat,
which is a salvage recovery boat,
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which is A, it's a it's
rough duty. And I was just like,
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no. The only said I'm coming
in is because I've screened, you
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know, and Buds is willing to
take me. And uh and luckily that
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commands as far as Mark Verado and
some other great shot and some great you
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know people there said that they would
send me to Buds and basically as an
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activated reservist. So I got,
you know, instead of going down one
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rank, you know, which I
was willing to do, and I was
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willing to sign a contract for four
years or whatever they wanted me to sign
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it for, I got to go
to Buds as an activated activated reservist and
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if I failed out, you know, I could go back to being a
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reservist. And uh so I didn't
have any like real weight over my shoulders
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other than not letting my my grandfather
down as far as buck or my family
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down. So that's when I got
there. You know. I classed up
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with Buds class two fifteen shortly now
sort of in the Hell Week Hell Week
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area. I took over as the
LPO, and we almost had the biggest
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class graduate as far as we were, just a tight class, great group
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of guys and a lot of successful
team guys can you know, out of
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that class and done great things.
To back up a little bit, Eric,
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could you talk talk to our audience
a little bit more about the navy
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diver profession, because I think there's
a lot of people out there who don't
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understand, you know, there's different
types of Navy divers right even within that
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career field, right. Oh.
Correct. So you start off as a
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second class diver and then you're able
to dive down to one hundred and sixty
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five feet with just come you know, with air, not mixed gas.
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And once you get a little bit
experienced, then you can go to first
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class dive school and that's when you
can get into you can go deeper and
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that you can get into mixed gas. There's more responsibilities to come a dive
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supervisor and you do more technical diving. You're just not you know, a
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guy on the end of an umbilical
anymore. You're kind of more technical,
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uh, you know, background and
dealing with the mixed gases and all that
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type stuff and running chambers and that
type stuff. Then from there you become
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a saturation dive where you can stay
down for you know, a much longer
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period of time, and that's where
it gets a lot more dangerous, and
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you know, you end up with
long term effects from that sometimes. And
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you can become a master diver once
you get to you hold so many qualifications,
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you make chief and you become a
master diver. So it's kind of
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the progression of different things, and
you got special product. You got a
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lot of different things you can do
as a Navy diver. I ended up
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at an EOD Mobile Unit six command
and we you know, at that they
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were training sea lions, they were
training dolphins, you know, as far
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as all those programs you know that
that divers and EOD guys do or some
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of the stuff that I got to
be around and participate in and got to
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do a lot of diving, a
lot of bounce diving off the coast of
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Charleston. Also did a lot of
spear fishing, and you know, artifact
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diving, which was you know,
pretty beneficial too. I enjoyed that the
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correct me for long eric. But
like from talking to people in the past,
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my understanding of the Marine Animal program
and then going on with that,
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what the EOD divers do is that
they kind of act as like the pathfinders,
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so to speak, go out there
and find the obstacles that the Navy
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is going to have to take their
ships through, and then you guys go
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out and destroy them. There's different
programs the uh so they the sea lions
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were mainly used for uh things that
were on the bottom that we knew were
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down there that we wanted them to
go down to attach you know, a
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rope to it so we can pull
it up because they could dive down to
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like five hundred feet, be down
there a couple of minutes and come back.
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Where for to send a diver down
that deep was you know, pretty
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difficult to do. Then, you
know, with the dolphin programs, there's
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ones that do cameras. There's guys
that are you know, there's dolphins that
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are anti swimmer, which you know, those things will kick your ass.
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As far as and my EOD buddies, you know, after I made it
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through buds, of course they present
me with the it's basically got a dolphin,
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it's got to like a frog in
his hands squashing it, you know,
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the Mark seven program because it's just
like because we were trying to swim
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against these dolphins all the time,
and uh yeah, it's I've heard there.
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I've heard, I've heard they're no
joke and they find you every single
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time. Yeah, it's like it's
like a no win situation. And yeah,
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it's a no win situation against running
against those and and the dolphins get
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pretty smart because they're wearing like a
harness with like a bangstick on it.
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They get pretty smart. You're down
there with a helmet and pat it up
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and you know these things. All
of a sudden you hear the click click
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click, and all of a sudden
it comes in there. It just knocks
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the ship out and it's just like
you're coming. You ball up a little
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bit, but they get they knew
how they hit the soft spots and everything
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else. Just like I don't think
you can get up to like five six
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hundred pounds, right you know yeah
yeah, yeah at least that size.
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Yeah, they you it's no joke, considering that like a pot of dogs
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to fuck up a great white like
it's yeah, it's like, oh people,
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no doub Yeah yeah, yeah,
this is easy for him. Yeah.
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Yeah, it was pretty funny.
But yeah, it was a great
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time in my career. I really
enjoyed it. You know, it got
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to you know, do that and
you know, and I just felt like
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I had to, you know,
do another challenge, something more, you
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know, I was looking for,
and that's when I decided to go to
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Buds. So no offense, Eric, I don't want to hear about how
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hard your Buds class was. I've
been told it's very difficult and that you
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guys were very cold. We all
know that. No, I'm just kidding.
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I know, I know it's a
very challenging course. But what year
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did you graduate? Buds? Ninety
seven? Oh? I went in ninety
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seven, ninety eighties when I graduated. Okay, so when in you know,
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it's basically going through the winter.
It was like Buds class two fifteen
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February. Shit, I should know
this date, but it was like February
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twenty first or twenty eight or something
like that when I graduated. Did you
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just to ask a question about budget
is to you? Did they make you
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because you had been a diver?
Did they make you like maintain the die
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locker or do do some stupid bullshit
because like you're previously because of your prev
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experience. Okay, so you know
you first thing. Luckily I had other
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divers that were in my class,
so there was I think we started off
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with like four divers that were you
start off with like one hundred and sixty
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whatever with our number was, and
most of the divers got through. So
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just good good on the divers,
you know, for getting through it,
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because it was challenging. But since
I was kind of senior guy showing up
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there already, you know, in
E six, which is high, you
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know, pretty high ranking, you
know, at the time in the community,
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the instructors were mainly E five's and
you know E six's and chiefs and
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stuff like that. And so if
if you don't realize that you don't know
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shit about being a seal, and
you come in there and you try to
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throw your rank around as far as
you know. So I was just like,
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and I'm consider myself a humble guy. They read me. I think
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they read me correctly. Did any
other E six is graduate in my class?
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You know? They all got rolled
out at some point? I think
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no, there was one other six
in my class. I graduated. And
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so long story short, a lot
of E sixes don't make it through and
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because of they're not sure if you
can handle not your rank doesn't represent who
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you are because you don't have the
experience so if you can't basically put your
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rank to the side and basically say, hey, I'm a FNG, I'm
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willing to learn. You know,
I'm coming in with a lot of experience,
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you know, different aspects and everything
else, but I don't know what
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it is to be a seal yet, so, you know, and they
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could see that I was willing to
learn and that I wasn't you know,
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relying on my rank for respect or
whatever. I was going to earn it.
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And so that's I guess, you
know, if I had to say
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something, you know, as far
as you know, getting through buds,
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but that's when it was, you
know for me. So well, I'm
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getting off on a tangent. But
as any six, as the LPO of
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the class, you're the guy with
the watch, and so you're the and
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if whatever you know, So me
and Clint Tippings, you know, he's
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a class leader. We have to
make sure that the class is on time
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to all do different events. We're
running all over the base all the time
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for these different things, whether it's
going to the pool, going to the
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dive tower, going wherever. You
know, it's our responsibility to make sure
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that the class is there on time. And I got the watch to do
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it well. On my watch,
I had a dive helmet on it,
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and I was just like you,
so you don't want you you don't want
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to stand out in buds and so
but now I'm forcing into the role of
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the LPO, which you know,
it wasn't I would have been happy not
249
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being that job also because that added
attention or whatever. But whenever the class
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made a mistake, it was always
my mine and the class leaders you know,
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responsibility to unfunck it, sorry if
douns through it to and uh so
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we ended up doing lots and lots
of push ups for the class all the
253
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time. And so we got really
good at doing a lot of push ups
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for making up mistakes that h that
we might have caused and or the guys
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in the class did it. And
so anyway, as far as they gave
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me extra attention going through pool comp
and going through the die phase of it,
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because they were just wanted to make
sure that I was comfortable in the
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water, and it was they it
was challenging, trust me, even as
259
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a diver with you know, at
that time probably had close stuff seven hundred
260
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dives, you know, honestly,
and uh and so when I went through
261
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pool comp you know, with a
double hose regulator and uh, they're being
262
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instructors, wanted to make sure I
was comfortable in the water, and luckily
263
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I got through it. You got
some extra attention. Yeah, so you
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get to the teams and uh,
something I'd love to ask you about that
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not a lot of people I think
know about is that you guys did have
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a real world mission going on prior
to nine to eleven, which was the
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oil smuggling in the Persian Gulf.
Yeah. Great point. So because I
268
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was LPO of the class, they
said, hey, you get, you
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get you get to pick a team, they said, you know, just
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like so I chose Seal Team Too, which was the most operational command at
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the time that I knew about from
what from the little bit of knowledge I
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had. It was the next challenge
trying to get there. Luckily I was
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able to get Seal Team to.
Seal Team Too had a great reputation now
274
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that I'm at Seal Team Too.
You go through Seal Tactical training. That's
275
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where you actually learn how to do
your job as a Seal Buds as a
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leading out process us make sure that
you have the mental fortitude to get through.
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You won't quit and you'll persevere through
whatever. You know, obstacles are
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thrown in front of it. Seal
tactical training, which got changed to Seal
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Qualification training later on, but Seal
tactical training is where you learn your job
280
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as a seal. I was the
honorman for that class. So then because
281
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of that, you know, you
go into like a draft or you know
282
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something along to the platoons are trying
to pick the guys coming out at st.
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T. I got selected for a
winter Warfare platoon, which is a
284
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very you know, another hard challenging, you know environment. You know that
285
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you're going to go to. We
got to go up to Alaska and train
286
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and that was you know a guy
from Florida, you know, basically going
287
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up there and surviving was pretty interesting
and learn all the you know, telemark
288
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skiing and all that type of stuff. Took to it. It was great,
289
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loved it. So I did that
deployment. Then we can I come
290
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back off of that deployment. I
get into a strike platoon and that platoon
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basically gets deployed to the Persian Gulf. When Saddam was saying was smuggling this
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all prior nine to eleven, and
that platoon we start taking down oil smuggling
293
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coming out of the Tigers River.
There was a small little window where they
294
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hit international waters because if they went
into Iranian waters, you know, then
295
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there's an international incident. You were
basically we were not supposed to be in
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their waters and you know, get
into a gunfight, you know with guys
297
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with bigger guns. Yeah, maybe
not so much so anyway, but as
298
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far as it can get challenging.
And so we did. Five or six
299
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real world boardings took control of these
ships and that was pretty exciting because they
300
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were welded it. They had bob
wire on the outside of it. They
301
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had they were welded into these things. It was all blacked out. You
302
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basically it was hard to find them. You know. They had you know,
303
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helicopters flying around with great or just
trying to locate them, trying to
304
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Then you had a small window to
get on it, and you had to
305
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cut into it with quickis and broco
torches and that type of stuff. So
306
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you got sparks flying all over the
place in the middle of the night and
307
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he's like just getting on board the
ship was challenging. And uh and you
308
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know, we were just had a
great time doing it. It was ridiculously
309
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hot as far as it was one
hundred and twenty during the day and one
310
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hundred and ten at night. And
you got you got your flotation on,
311
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you got your body armor, you
got all this equipment on. Then you're
312
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climbing up there getting in. Then
you get into the engine room or trying
313
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to go through the ship and there's
most of them didn't have ac or it
314
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wasn't like a Navy ship, you
know, comfortable you know environment to be
315
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in where they had to get control
of it and not get you know into
316
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hopefully into shot or get hurt or
something along those lines, and then get
317
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control of the ship and then move
it to a safe area that was controlled
318
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by the big Navy. And were
you guys broken it of b or climbing
319
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the caving ladder? It was caving
mainly caving ladder as far as we were
320
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hooking and polling. You know,
we had snipers that were circling around,
321
00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:12.359
you know, in the helicopters,
but we were we were using a hooking
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caving ladder to get on board.
And is this this is the old school
323
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days of like O D Green coveralls, Nomac's gloves, the Oakley goggles,
324
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and MP five's oh yeah, yeah, we're all in flight suits at the
325
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time. So there is actually,
well there's there's a picture floating around on
326
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the internet with a bunch of guys
on the back of the Mark five with
327
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their shirts off, and I'm in
that picture with those guys. As far
328
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as uh that was, that was
that platoon that we're doing it, It
329
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was just that was really before the
internet really took That was somewhat taken off,
330
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but we didn't realize if you sent
the picture to somebody, you could
331
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get posted all over the place,
and so you know, like we're getting
332
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shipped from the commands, like you
guys are fucking all over the internet,
333
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and you know we're just like,
didn't you know the guy that did it
334
00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:03.880
didn't mean to do it? Yeah, anyway, it was just like so
335
00:23:03.920 --> 00:23:06.559
that picture floated around for a long
you know, for a period of time.
336
00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:14.160
How would were some of your guys
like qualified to pilot like these larger
337
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ships or would you get a pilot
on there in order to help you get
338
00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:22.119
like how did that happen? Once
you so you do the VBSS right,
339
00:23:22.279 --> 00:23:26.960
and and for people who don't know
it's is it, it's visit board search
340
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and seizure maybe exactly it. And
so you do the VBSS, you take
341
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over the ship, and then who
steers the damn thing after that? Yeah,
342
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it matters what size of the ship
it is, because you know,
343
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the real big ones have an engine
room and a control room down and they're
344
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the ones that are actually they're just
getting relayed information down to them. These
345
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ones were mainly smaller ones. So
the helmets up there on the bridge and
346
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uh, so we had you know, naval officers that were seals also and
347
00:23:57.960 --> 00:24:02.640
slow qualified or you know, and
uh and then if they were small enough
348
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and plus we you know, we
just got control of the crew and told
349
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them to get on this heading and
we just make sure they were on the
350
00:24:07.759 --> 00:24:11.960
right heading, and you know,
didn't do anything shady. Most of them
351
00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:17.279
were pretty compliant, scared shit,
listen. Yeah, they were just you
352
00:24:17.319 --> 00:24:22.960
know a lot of them weren't even
Iraqi or Afghani or or Iranian or anything.
353
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We were just guys that were contracted
beyond there. Okay. Uh and
354
00:24:27.559 --> 00:24:33.400
then nine to eleven happens while you're
over there, tell us about that what
355
00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:36.759
that experience was like and then leading
us into you know, you ended up
356
00:24:36.759 --> 00:24:41.720
doing three deployments to Iraq and three
to Afghanistan. Yeah, so we just
357
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get finished up, you know,
with all the boardings where we have already.
358
00:24:47.880 --> 00:24:48.880
You know, we were a strike
platoons, so we had all our
359
00:24:48.920 --> 00:24:52.200
stuff in what we call trywall boxes
and they was all getting ready to be
360
00:24:52.200 --> 00:24:56.200
flown back home on c. Seventeen
or whatever it was going to get,
361
00:24:56.279 --> 00:25:00.519
you know, onto our deployment was
pretty much done. The aircraft carry and
362
00:25:00.559 --> 00:25:03.240
the whole battle group was already going
down around the Horn of Africa. Then
363
00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:07.480
all of a sudden, the towers
get hit. We're in Baha Rain enjoying
364
00:25:07.720 --> 00:25:11.960
liberty for a little while, and
and next thing you know, the towers
365
00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:15.720
get hit. The battle group gets
turned around, comes back up there,
366
00:25:15.759 --> 00:25:19.319
we get thrown onto a frigate or
you know a couple of small ships before
367
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we can get to the aircraft carrier. Then we get on the aircraft carrier
368
00:25:25.319 --> 00:25:27.799
waiting for the bombing campaign to start
off, and we're a ceestar package on
369
00:25:27.839 --> 00:25:33.240
top of you know, on the
aircraft carrier. But unfortunately they couldn't refuel
370
00:25:33.240 --> 00:25:36.319
in flight, so the helicopters couldn't
go, you know, like as far
371
00:25:36.359 --> 00:25:41.119
as the army helicopters could go into
you know, in the country, into
372
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Afghanistan, and so we were limited
on what we could do. So we
373
00:25:44.720 --> 00:25:47.839
set out in the Persian Gulf thinking
we're going to the show, and pretty
374
00:25:47.880 --> 00:25:52.519
much all we did was do circles
out there. And yeah, board team
375
00:25:52.559 --> 00:25:56.200
Guys is not a good thing.
And uh, and just because we we
376
00:25:56.319 --> 00:26:02.279
got some of our stuff on the
ship and we stopped in France for a
377
00:26:02.279 --> 00:26:06.720
period of time, so we had
a bunch of French wine and some of
378
00:26:06.759 --> 00:26:08.039
our guys decided to you know,
drink some of that while they're on there
379
00:26:08.039 --> 00:26:12.079
and getting a little bit of trouble
as far as anyways, So board Team
380
00:26:12.119 --> 00:26:15.279
Guys is not a good thing.
And luckily it didn't you know, it
381
00:26:15.319 --> 00:26:18.000
didn't really affect too many guys,
but we did get in a little bit
382
00:26:18.039 --> 00:26:22.079
of trouble for that, for having
a little bit of alcohol on the ship
383
00:26:22.119 --> 00:26:26.799
that we shouldn't have had on there
at the time. So anyway, we
384
00:26:26.920 --> 00:26:30.279
come not to get on off on
a tangent there, but we come back
385
00:26:30.319 --> 00:26:36.279
off that deployment. That's when they
did the whole force redal work as far
386
00:26:36.279 --> 00:26:41.640
as they went from seal teams to
squadrons and the whole force twenty one.
387
00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:45.160
So all the guys coming back from
I was that Seal Team too. Next
388
00:26:45.160 --> 00:26:49.279
thing, you know, we're all
going to because you know, the war
389
00:26:49.359 --> 00:26:55.440
kicked off and they reordered how we're
going to basically deploy. So all those
390
00:26:55.440 --> 00:26:57.359
guys that came back off that deployment, whether it was the ARC or the
391
00:26:57.359 --> 00:27:03.319
Strike platoon, all went the Seal
Team for So now you've got most of
392
00:27:03.359 --> 00:27:08.079
the Seal Team two is now at
Seal Team four. And so we start
393
00:27:08.119 --> 00:27:11.440
the whole workup process. And I'm
doing my l p O. Now I've
394
00:27:11.480 --> 00:27:15.519
got two platoons underneath my belt,
some experience, I'm a dive supervisor,
395
00:27:15.519 --> 00:27:21.200
I'm a freefall jump master, I
got you know, different qualifications that I
396
00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:26.680
can be an l p O.
Now I'm the l p O of that
397
00:27:26.799 --> 00:27:32.559
platoon. So we deployed to Germany, you know, as far as we
398
00:27:32.640 --> 00:27:34.680
still had those commitments going on with
you know, Bosnia and you know,
399
00:27:34.680 --> 00:27:40.000
and all that type stuff kind of
happening, and uh, then the Liberia
400
00:27:40.200 --> 00:27:45.640
as far as uh, the rebel
forces overran the capital of Monrovia, in
401
00:27:45.799 --> 00:27:55.000
Liberia and so we get on the
hook to do these the UH NEO in
402
00:27:55.079 --> 00:28:00.599
Liberia and honestly, you know,
so after three deployments to Iraq and redeployments
403
00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:06.920
to Afghanistan, the most scared you
know is I was is in Liberia really
404
00:28:07.240 --> 00:28:11.119
because we flew in. The first
thing was you know, we had three
405
00:28:11.119 --> 00:28:15.559
different ways of the inserting, you
know at the time, because Big Army
406
00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:18.039
couldn't get down there. They had
closed off the airport, so we were
407
00:28:18.039 --> 00:28:22.200
going to have to come from the
sea. So we're either going to do
408
00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:26.359
in M cats, which we were
in M Cats platoon, and we'd already
409
00:28:26.359 --> 00:28:29.839
been in the air one time before
ready to do an M cats drop on
410
00:28:30.559 --> 00:28:33.400
an Iranian ship that was doing some
stuff or bringing some stuff that they shouldn't
411
00:28:33.400 --> 00:28:36.759
have been bringing to it, or
a ship that was going to bring stuff
412
00:28:36.799 --> 00:28:40.599
there, and we basically they turned
at the last minute, well as we
413
00:28:40.640 --> 00:28:45.200
were at the end of the ramp
ready to jump out before doing free fall
414
00:28:45.240 --> 00:28:49.319
with the AM cats, you know, left meat ribs and now we're getting
415
00:28:49.359 --> 00:28:56.079
rid. Now we're down in Liberia
doing a neo. You know. Basically
416
00:28:56.160 --> 00:29:00.279
one of our insertion methods was M
cats and they were going to just sink
417
00:29:00.359 --> 00:29:03.599
those things after we swam to the
beach, and you know those things aren't
418
00:29:03.680 --> 00:29:07.599
you know, cheap things, or
we're gonna do rubber ducks. As far
419
00:29:07.640 --> 00:29:11.880
as that's was somewhat limited to.
And then the last thing is we hit
420
00:29:11.920 --> 00:29:15.279
Free Town. It's just like we
might be able to get some contracted aircraft
421
00:29:15.559 --> 00:29:19.000
from other agencies, and luckily they
were able to fly us in there with
422
00:29:19.039 --> 00:29:23.440
some of those well, one of
those helicopters flew in a small group first,
423
00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:27.319
and you know, I think eight
or now there's probably ten of us
424
00:29:27.359 --> 00:29:32.720
on that first flight. And when
we hit the ground there, the French
425
00:29:32.799 --> 00:29:36.799
embassy had already been overrun. They
had all the people that were in the
426
00:29:36.839 --> 00:29:40.599
American embassy. I don't know if
you've ever been to the American embassy,
427
00:29:40.640 --> 00:29:45.079
and you know, Monrovia, the
walls were only maybe seventy foot tall,
428
00:29:45.200 --> 00:29:49.279
just a single block wall, not
very well fortified. And you can see
429
00:29:49.319 --> 00:29:52.640
the terror on everybody's face when we
showed up there, how scared they were,
430
00:29:53.200 --> 00:29:57.720
and we didn't know what we're getting
into. We go up to the
431
00:29:57.759 --> 00:30:03.000
front and there's thousands and thousands of
people just trying to get into the embassy
432
00:30:03.480 --> 00:30:07.359
and some of them saying they're American
citizens, some of them. Then you
433
00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:11.680
got the rebel forces that are driving
by with AK forty sevens and RPGs and
434
00:30:11.759 --> 00:30:15.079
giving you the stink eye. You're
just like shit, they're gonna you know,
435
00:30:15.519 --> 00:30:18.000
they're just probing us the whole time, trying to, you know,
436
00:30:18.039 --> 00:30:22.839
see what kind of weakness we had. To the point where the second helicopter
437
00:30:22.920 --> 00:30:26.880
coming in was supposed to bring in
food, water, plus the rest of
438
00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:29.160
the guys, we said, forget
the food, forget the water, and
439
00:30:29.160 --> 00:30:32.599
bring AMMO. It was just it
was good. We didn't have enough AMMO
440
00:30:32.680 --> 00:30:37.160
if it if it came over to
a bad situation. So for you know,
441
00:30:37.319 --> 00:30:41.319
a little over a week we stayed. We were awake, and we
442
00:30:41.400 --> 00:30:45.599
had to keep from rotating from one
position to another position, changed our looks
443
00:30:45.640 --> 00:30:47.960
a little bit, make it look
like we had a much bigger force.
444
00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:52.599
We only had eighteen guys, and
but we had to make it look and
445
00:30:52.640 --> 00:30:56.160
we had to cover a lot of
property as far as the embassy where they
446
00:30:56.200 --> 00:31:00.799
could attack us from, and so
we had to make ourselves look a lot
447
00:31:00.839 --> 00:31:03.880
bigger than what we were, more
intimidating what we were. So we were
448
00:31:03.160 --> 00:31:07.279
constantly changing how we looked and what
we looked like. So it is a
449
00:31:07.319 --> 00:31:11.960
fresh face every two hours somewhere else. But we didn't sleep for honestly,
450
00:31:11.119 --> 00:31:17.559
very very little sleep for about a
week until finally other guys got in there
451
00:31:17.559 --> 00:31:21.039
to help us out. We had
a State Department official on the show recently,
452
00:31:21.319 --> 00:31:23.759
Dante Paradiso, who is here.
He actually wrote a whole book about
453
00:31:23.799 --> 00:31:27.000
the evacuation. He was there when
it happened. But I also know that
454
00:31:27.079 --> 00:31:32.000
there were like six or seven evacuations
at the time of Liberia, right,
455
00:31:32.319 --> 00:31:36.400
So I'm not sure which this one
was. Which, Yeah, this was
456
00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:40.960
two thousand and three, Okay,
two thousand and three, I think,
457
00:31:41.200 --> 00:31:45.000
as far as I remember correctly,
I'm pretty sure it was like right around
458
00:31:45.039 --> 00:31:48.759
two thousand and three. Yeah,
we're so. So after I was going
459
00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:52.519
to ask you had the you had
mentioned that the French embassy had already been
460
00:31:52.559 --> 00:31:56.720
overrun. Do you know if the
French civilians that were there had they had
461
00:31:56.720 --> 00:32:00.759
they made it to the American embassy
or were they caught up by the Liberians?
462
00:32:02.039 --> 00:32:05.400
No, they were, Yeah,
they were in the American embassy.
463
00:32:05.920 --> 00:32:09.319
You had all the missionary type people
that were I mean there's I mean,
464
00:32:10.720 --> 00:32:15.480
they would you know, the rebel
forces roll by and just throw bodies you
465
00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:17.039
know, on the ground and basically
trying to intimidate us. You know,
466
00:32:17.079 --> 00:32:21.200
they start of human life isn't worth
very much over there in their eyes,
467
00:32:21.640 --> 00:32:27.119
and so it was it was an
eye opening experience for me. And so
468
00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:30.880
that was when I was just like
at this, you know, in the
469
00:32:30.039 --> 00:32:32.960
ros was anybody comes over the wall, you could shoot them where I was
470
00:32:34.039 --> 00:32:37.240
just like, man, some of
these people are just scared trying or just
471
00:32:37.400 --> 00:32:39.920
you know, they might be you
know, an American who who's trying to
472
00:32:39.920 --> 00:32:44.240
get into the embassy. So just
because they're on the wall, just like,
473
00:32:44.519 --> 00:32:47.000
hey, realize what a real threat
is. You know, it's overwhelming
474
00:32:47.000 --> 00:32:52.720
and we got to you know,
we have to make a point, make
475
00:32:52.759 --> 00:32:54.359
a point, you know, but
if you don't have to, let's not
476
00:32:54.440 --> 00:32:58.920
do it. And luckily we didn't
have to fire any shots. Everything went
477
00:32:59.200 --> 00:33:04.519
super smooth. It was you know, I was very proud of how the
478
00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:08.279
guys, how professional they were with
that overwhelming force in front of them,
479
00:33:08.680 --> 00:33:14.720
and that guys didn't get triggered each
year or try to do something stupid that
480
00:33:14.839 --> 00:33:17.759
causes the situation for us and so
all the guys were super professional and did
481
00:33:19.039 --> 00:33:27.240
great things. So then from there
now I just finished up my OLPO and
482
00:33:27.240 --> 00:33:30.480
and I was able to stay,
you know, I pick up chief,
483
00:33:30.640 --> 00:33:34.400
you know, so East seven,
you know, I have a successful combat
484
00:33:34.440 --> 00:33:37.880
you know, or tour, and
we did the anyway, So now I'm
485
00:33:37.880 --> 00:33:43.559
a chief. I stay at Sultine
for I pick up a platoon and now
486
00:33:43.559 --> 00:33:47.119
we're doing a new work up.
We're deploying to This will be my first
487
00:33:47.160 --> 00:33:52.880
time going to Iraq. And at
that time, the number one strategic mission
488
00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:59.640
was protecting the interim government of Iraq. So we're all doing we're all gettingtting
489
00:33:59.680 --> 00:34:05.160
trained up in PSD as far as
personal protection you know details, and and
490
00:34:05.200 --> 00:34:07.159
so we're all in competition as far
as you know, trying to do that
491
00:34:07.320 --> 00:34:12.760
job correctly and on top of the
diving, the jumping and everything else you're
492
00:34:12.800 --> 00:34:15.599
doing. Now we got a new
tasking kind of somewhat we're getting up to
493
00:34:15.639 --> 00:34:20.599
speed on it. I had already
done a couple of Potish trips when on
494
00:34:20.639 --> 00:34:23.679
that last platoon that I was just
talking about, and we went when he
495
00:34:23.760 --> 00:34:27.840
went to Africa, I went with
George Bush all over that we had you
496
00:34:27.880 --> 00:34:30.519
know, that was another great story
we can get into another time. But
497
00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:36.320
because of the experience and how well
the platoon was doing, we got the
498
00:34:36.400 --> 00:34:39.360
number one guy you know in Iraq, doctor Lowie, the Prime Minister of
499
00:34:39.400 --> 00:34:45.079
Iraq, so we were my platoon
was protecting him and he was a busy
500
00:34:45.079 --> 00:34:47.400
guy, you know, as far
as lost people coming to see him and
501
00:34:47.480 --> 00:34:51.039
things along ago. But he would
also go out of country from time to
502
00:34:51.079 --> 00:34:52.960
time, and whenever he went out
of country, we could go up and
503
00:34:53.000 --> 00:34:58.960
help out, you know, Danny
and Bill's platoon who were doing direct action.
504
00:34:59.119 --> 00:35:02.159
So our guys were getting doing PSD
missions and they were going out and
505
00:35:02.199 --> 00:35:06.800
helping with direct action missions at night
or you know, be up there for
506
00:35:06.840 --> 00:35:10.320
a week or two, and and
that's where you know, that's where you
507
00:35:10.360 --> 00:35:15.239
know, you really got to hone
your skills a little bit better and got
508
00:35:15.519 --> 00:35:19.880
experience on direct action missions up there, and the guys were were doing having
509
00:35:19.960 --> 00:35:23.480
great time doing that type stuff up
there also. That's where you know,
510
00:35:24.039 --> 00:35:29.239
and we'll get into this later on, but my where CPD starts coming to
511
00:35:29.360 --> 00:35:31.840
effect for me close quarters defense.
And I was talking to you guys a
512
00:35:31.840 --> 00:35:36.280
little bit you know about it earlier, but that's when we were That's when
513
00:35:36.280 --> 00:35:39.320
it all kind of came to a
you know, oh I got it now
514
00:35:39.360 --> 00:35:44.239
as far as why we're doing that
training and why prisoner control and and why
515
00:35:44.280 --> 00:35:46.280
we're you know, it's why it's
operations focused and things along those lines.
516
00:35:46.679 --> 00:35:52.679
So now that you know, great
success on that deployment come back off of
517
00:35:52.719 --> 00:35:57.360
that. That's my fourth platoon work
up and deployment. They said, Eric,
518
00:35:57.400 --> 00:36:00.119
you got to go to training.
You can't you know, you're you
519
00:36:00.159 --> 00:36:05.400
can't stay here, you can't do
another platoon chief, which honestly, most
520
00:36:05.719 --> 00:36:08.719
guys in the teams that's where they
would like to stay because that's when you're
521
00:36:08.840 --> 00:36:14.239
directly, you know, with your
guys and your decisions, you know,
522
00:36:14.320 --> 00:36:19.719
and how you you have a direct
effect on guys' lives that you know,
523
00:36:19.760 --> 00:36:23.199
and they on yours too, and
so you're the closest and so the platoon
524
00:36:23.280 --> 00:36:29.639
chief is kind of the sweet spot
within the sealed community. Finish that up.
525
00:36:29.840 --> 00:36:30.960
You know, they got people in
the pipeline that need to do it.
526
00:36:31.000 --> 00:36:34.840
You know. Also the next leadership
block or whatever they said, you
527
00:36:34.880 --> 00:36:39.519
got to go to training. I
had the CQD course Close Course Defense course
528
00:36:40.239 --> 00:36:45.079
had a great reputation if you wanted
to get operationally focused, better qualified,
529
00:36:45.480 --> 00:36:51.800
understand how to operate as an operator, trying to become a CQD instructor.
530
00:36:51.840 --> 00:36:54.320
So I put my name in the
hat. I got selected to basically to
531
00:36:54.360 --> 00:37:00.440
be an instructor. Shortly after that, I pick up EA, my mentor,
532
00:37:00.599 --> 00:37:06.239
Noel Harris leaves and I take over
as a course manager on the East
533
00:37:06.280 --> 00:37:08.880
Coast for you know, close quarters
defense. Now, this is in the
534
00:37:08.880 --> 00:37:13.280
middle of war and you're sending you
know, the guys that you're training are
535
00:37:13.320 --> 00:37:15.039
going, you know, could be
leaving in a week to go over there.
536
00:37:15.239 --> 00:37:20.000
So what you teach them can either
save their lives or get them killed.
537
00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:25.400
So that's the the amount of responsibility
that's thrown onto the CQD instructors.
538
00:37:25.800 --> 00:37:30.159
And it's you know, the CQD
instructors most of them all came from a
539
00:37:30.159 --> 00:37:34.599
mixed martial arts background of some sort
or boxing or grappling or wrestling, So
540
00:37:34.679 --> 00:37:39.159
it wasn't like you know, when
JOCKO on his podcast he said, hey,
541
00:37:39.480 --> 00:37:45.559
there was this system for a little
while that was in the pipeline.
542
00:37:45.920 --> 00:37:52.840
He misleads the public because that system
has been in the seal community at that
543
00:37:52.280 --> 00:37:57.840
time for over twenty or twenty two
years, so longer than Jocko was actually
544
00:37:57.840 --> 00:38:02.320
in the Navy. CCD has been
are one of our most important courses that
545
00:38:02.360 --> 00:38:06.880
we could go through. Whenever we
did a dog and pony show for at
546
00:38:06.920 --> 00:38:09.679
Congress or anybody coming over, they
showed that's what they would go show them
547
00:38:09.719 --> 00:38:15.880
would be the CQD course. That's
how well respected and how operationally focused it
548
00:38:15.079 --> 00:38:22.000
was. So to become an instructor, you know, was an honor.
549
00:38:22.440 --> 00:38:24.000
You know, it's something that it
wasn't easy. He had to go through
550
00:38:24.039 --> 00:38:31.199
this and you know this instructor forging
process. And Dwayne Dieter who came up
551
00:38:31.199 --> 00:38:40.159
with the system, he would train
the instructors directly for seal CQD level one
552
00:38:40.199 --> 00:38:45.159
and two. You go through this
forging thing and you know, to be
553
00:38:45.199 --> 00:38:51.079
honest with you, like log pt
at Buds was was like the hardest thing
554
00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:54.480
I had ever done up until that
point. Fighting for your life going through
555
00:38:54.840 --> 00:39:00.480
CQD forging and how you know,
as far as your mistakes, things you
556
00:39:00.559 --> 00:39:06.360
did right, but fighting until you
were totally exhausted and then then fighting for
557
00:39:06.400 --> 00:39:09.360
another five minutes more because you're about
to get your head cut off, you
558
00:39:09.400 --> 00:39:14.079
know, and you know if you
didn't, basically you were, and so
559
00:39:14.239 --> 00:39:19.920
you knew how important the training was
is because it was making you operationally focused.
560
00:39:19.920 --> 00:39:23.800
But it was also physically demanding because
when you get exhausted, that's when
561
00:39:23.840 --> 00:39:29.960
you could your mistakes started coming out
and that they could correct. The instructors
562
00:39:30.079 --> 00:39:32.639
would yeah, I'm sorry, I'm
just gonna ask you, can you can
563
00:39:32.679 --> 00:39:38.519
you walk us through who Deeter was, how CQD came about, and what
564
00:39:38.519 --> 00:39:43.679
what CQD and sort of its breadth
was, and then how it came to
565
00:39:43.719 --> 00:39:47.719
the seal teams. Okay, that's
a great point. So Dwayne dieter H
566
00:39:49.159 --> 00:39:53.480
was working with the DA Task Force
up in Maryland Baltimore areas taking down the
567
00:39:53.519 --> 00:39:58.199
big drug houses that were happening up. There's a lot of drugs being run
568
00:39:58.280 --> 00:40:00.440
up in that area at the time. He had a roommate when he was
569
00:40:00.480 --> 00:40:06.960
in college that was a team guy. And Dwayne comes from a huge mixed
570
00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:10.880
martial arts background. He was high
level fifth or sixth degree black Belts and
571
00:40:10.920 --> 00:40:15.880
multiple different things, and so he
had that background. His steal buddy was
572
00:40:15.920 --> 00:40:20.840
getting trained in some mixed martial arts
type stufft Dwayne would be kind of happy
573
00:40:20.880 --> 00:40:23.199
to kind of guess what we're learning
in type situations. Well, Dwayne's been
574
00:40:23.239 --> 00:40:30.719
developing CQD on the side because his
stuff wasn't working when he was taken down
575
00:40:30.880 --> 00:40:36.400
daight drug houses and a person that
he called him his teacher, but he
576
00:40:36.519 --> 00:40:39.039
was a master. He said,
your purpose was did he come up with
577
00:40:39.079 --> 00:40:44.679
his system? And so when Dwayne
couldn't get trained at any higher level on
578
00:40:44.960 --> 00:40:49.119
that side, his teacher said,
what you want doesn't exist, you have
579
00:40:49.199 --> 00:40:52.760
to develop this. And so that's
when Dwayne started developing close quarters defense.
580
00:40:52.960 --> 00:40:55.719
And he was only doing it for
himself and for you know, maybe his
581
00:40:55.760 --> 00:41:00.000
select buddies that were doing the daight
you know, task force type stuff.
582
00:41:00.519 --> 00:41:05.000
But his seal buddy basically said,
hey, this is something that we probably
583
00:41:05.039 --> 00:41:07.159
could use too. So we did
a demonstration for him and next thing,
584
00:41:07.199 --> 00:41:09.760
you know, at Seal Team six, he's down there teaching. They gave
585
00:41:09.800 --> 00:41:16.599
him an office down there. He
was such a well respected guy down there,
586
00:41:17.599 --> 00:41:22.119
he was made an honorary Frogman.
He does deployments, you know,
587
00:41:22.239 --> 00:41:25.239
he goes to Iraq and Afghanistan.
I mean this is he's embedded, you
588
00:41:25.280 --> 00:41:31.280
know, really deeply with us,
and as enough guys leave dam neck at
589
00:41:31.280 --> 00:41:35.800
the time, we had the combat
Fighting course and we had scars. We
590
00:41:35.880 --> 00:41:39.800
had a conglomeration of mixed martial art
type stuff that didn't really mesh well together.
591
00:41:39.840 --> 00:41:45.199
It wasn't operationally focused, and it
was sports based. And so even
592
00:41:45.239 --> 00:41:50.079
though we got a lot of our
guys that come from martial arts background that
593
00:41:50.119 --> 00:41:53.800
are CCD instructors, we all understood
that that one was sports based, which
594
00:41:53.840 --> 00:41:58.840
is one on one in a ring. The environment in the rings not very
595
00:41:58.920 --> 00:42:01.360
dangerous. You have to worry about
somebody shooting you from a distance. You
596
00:42:01.360 --> 00:42:05.400
don't have to worry about multiple adversaries. You don't have to worry about a
597
00:42:05.400 --> 00:42:07.639
guy pulling a knife in the middle
of your boxing match or trying to stab
598
00:42:07.719 --> 00:42:14.639
you. So all these things that
you that you training in this false environment,
599
00:42:14.800 --> 00:42:19.440
you know, as far as the
sports ring doesn't really correspond to what's
600
00:42:19.599 --> 00:42:23.880
operationally out here. So it was
very tight hold. You know, CPD
601
00:42:24.039 --> 00:42:28.000
is you know why you guys don't
really know much about it. Why it's
602
00:42:28.039 --> 00:42:31.760
interesting to you, it is because
Dwayne is the ultimate you know, choir
603
00:42:31.840 --> 00:42:37.639
professional. He just wanted to give
it to us and so that we could,
604
00:42:37.800 --> 00:42:40.920
you know, after nine to eleven, you know, things were dynamic
605
00:42:40.960 --> 00:42:44.960
for the United States and we wanted
we needed to We need the guys with
606
00:42:45.039 --> 00:42:47.519
that training out there on the battlefield. And so he was having a great
607
00:42:47.559 --> 00:42:51.320
time. We were having a great
time, and ckd was just you know,
608
00:42:51.440 --> 00:42:54.800
crushing it overseas. And that's why
when I was doing the das and
609
00:42:54.880 --> 00:42:59.159
you know, my guys are doing
it, I realized, you know,
610
00:42:59.400 --> 00:43:02.199
Tom Boston was up there tanging the
guys. I was just like, that's
611
00:43:02.320 --> 00:43:07.239
where I wanted to get to if
I had to go to training and get
612
00:43:07.239 --> 00:43:09.360
myself to be a better operator.
So that's how it ends up in the
613
00:43:09.400 --> 00:43:16.000
Seal team. So Dwayne was teaching
down at dev group and when it went
614
00:43:16.039 --> 00:43:21.239
to the rest of the teams,
he that's when he started training the trainer.
615
00:43:21.320 --> 00:43:24.000
So when Jocko says I wanted seals
training seals, you know that was
616
00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:30.119
already happening. He was he was
misleading the public, like you know,
617
00:43:30.239 --> 00:43:34.679
contractors were training seals. And that's
why we had Dwayne train, you know,
618
00:43:34.840 --> 00:43:37.159
at the higher levels as far as
you know entry and you know,
619
00:43:37.320 --> 00:43:43.880
vehicle takedown and you know, you
know much you know broader, you know,
620
00:43:44.480 --> 00:43:49.159
spectrum of different things that he could
train and the Seal instructors are doing
621
00:43:49.239 --> 00:43:52.239
Level one and two, which was
basically, you know, mainly direct action
622
00:43:52.360 --> 00:43:57.440
prisoner control and you go from unarmed
to arm to shooting to a prisoner control
623
00:43:57.519 --> 00:44:02.239
to operational physical training and and the
one unique thing that no other training system
624
00:44:02.320 --> 00:44:07.199
had was the internal Warrior. The
internal Warrior was after you got trained and
625
00:44:07.239 --> 00:44:10.519
all these different things, you got
these skills and you basically you validated.
626
00:44:10.639 --> 00:44:15.519
You went through a hooded box drill
to validate. You knew that these skills
627
00:44:15.559 --> 00:44:17.800
are what you needed to learn.
That's why it was having so much success
628
00:44:17.960 --> 00:44:23.960
in the Seal teams. But after
you went through validation of that hooded box
629
00:44:24.039 --> 00:44:28.920
drill, that's when you know,
come clear to you what you need to
630
00:44:28.920 --> 00:44:35.760
be doing as an operator. And
so yeah, sorts. So now that
631
00:44:35.800 --> 00:44:39.599
you got all these training and you
got this the internal Warrior. The ethical
632
00:44:39.639 --> 00:44:44.039
part of the training that you could
use these skills for a lot of bad
633
00:44:44.119 --> 00:44:45.800
things if you wanted to. You
could you know, take advantage and you
634
00:44:45.800 --> 00:44:50.199
know, do different things just like
what's the purpose of your fight? And
635
00:44:50.239 --> 00:44:53.000
so it was our it was our
escalation of force, it was our first
636
00:44:53.000 --> 00:44:59.159
control. It was you know,
and it helped guys personally, I D
637
00:44:59.400 --> 00:45:02.599
what the higher threats are, make
right decisions. Shoot no shoot, held
638
00:45:02.599 --> 00:45:07.360
them accountable because if they didn't do
things right underneath the hood. The role
639
00:45:07.360 --> 00:45:14.639
players, we had role players some
of these some of these exercises we did,
640
00:45:14.679 --> 00:45:17.079
we had like hundreds of role players
that were attacking guys, shooting guys.
641
00:45:17.360 --> 00:45:22.039
Some guys were compliant, some guys
not compliant. Uh. It was
642
00:45:22.280 --> 00:45:27.880
just a time in the seal community
where we were just excelling. And that's
643
00:45:27.880 --> 00:45:30.239
why we had made such a good
name, you know, on the battlefield
644
00:45:30.280 --> 00:45:35.679
early, you know, and you
know in our you know, kind of
645
00:45:36.039 --> 00:45:38.960
in the beginning of after nine to
eleven in the war. That's why we
646
00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:45.360
had such a solid reputation. So
we got that going on. But then
647
00:45:45.239 --> 00:45:50.639
on the side note of which you
got roberts Ridge. And why I bring
648
00:45:50.639 --> 00:45:52.840
that up because that comes into a
conflict here in a little bit, and
649
00:45:52.880 --> 00:45:57.559
I'm going to connect some dots for
people that don't understand it, and even
650
00:45:57.719 --> 00:46:00.480
some seals don't understand it, and
this is going to educate him on some
651
00:46:00.519 --> 00:46:04.599
things. So you got roberts Ridge, you got Tim Samanski who pushes slab
652
00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:07.079
to basically land on the ex to
do a WRECKI on top of there.
653
00:46:07.280 --> 00:46:10.280
He thinks he's gonna get Osama bin
Laden and he doesn't give a shit about
654
00:46:10.320 --> 00:46:14.920
the guys in the helicopter. Tim
Samanski says, no, don't abord land
655
00:46:14.960 --> 00:46:16.800
that thing up there, and that's
when they start getting shot up and they
656
00:46:16.840 --> 00:46:22.280
have to. Neil Roberts falls out
of the back of it, and the
657
00:46:22.400 --> 00:46:27.239
helicopter does a control crash, landing
a couple of clicks away. Another helicopter
658
00:46:27.360 --> 00:46:30.400
comes in. They convince that helicopter
to go back up there to try to
659
00:46:30.400 --> 00:46:34.920
get Neil Roberts. They didn't know
that Neil Roberts had been fighting valiantly up
660
00:46:34.960 --> 00:46:37.519
there by himself for a period of
time, but he'd been they'd been able
661
00:46:37.519 --> 00:46:40.000
to kill him. But they think
they're going up there to save him,
662
00:46:40.599 --> 00:46:45.920
and you know, great, you
know guys willing to step up there and
663
00:46:45.960 --> 00:46:50.639
do that. And he's just like, that's that shouldn't that should have been
664
00:46:50.639 --> 00:46:52.440
the story, and you know that, you know, the great things could
665
00:46:52.440 --> 00:46:57.559
happen. It's sort of tactical mess
up. He shouldn't have landed on the
666
00:46:57.559 --> 00:47:00.119
ax at that point, you know, Tim Samanski pushed him in there,
667
00:47:00.360 --> 00:47:02.440
said, you know, shitty leaders
have been shit canned and got rid of.
668
00:47:02.760 --> 00:47:09.599
You know. At that time they
land up there, Chapman basically starts
669
00:47:09.639 --> 00:47:13.800
going forward because slab falls, you
know, going out of the helicopter whatever,
670
00:47:13.840 --> 00:47:15.000
there's five foot of snow. It's
you know, it's a it's a
671
00:47:15.039 --> 00:47:22.239
harsh environment. Chapman basically goes up
and starts taking down a machine gun bunker,
672
00:47:22.400 --> 00:47:23.719
you know, as far as a
bunker want or whatever it's called.
673
00:47:23.719 --> 00:47:27.920
And you know, if you watch
on there's a pread feed on YouTube,
674
00:47:27.960 --> 00:47:31.519
you can watch it. It explains
the whole thing in my community. You
675
00:47:31.519 --> 00:47:35.440
know, as a seal, you
know, a CCD instructor, you get
676
00:47:35.480 --> 00:47:39.199
guys cycling through, and you know, and first thing you're you're getting after
677
00:47:39.239 --> 00:47:44.519
action reports of exactly what's happening in
Afghanistan, happening in Iraq, and you're
678
00:47:44.559 --> 00:47:47.480
trying to create these scenarios when the
guys go through, what the guys are
679
00:47:47.519 --> 00:47:52.000
running into on the battleground up there
right now. So you've got guys that
680
00:47:52.039 --> 00:47:54.039
are telling you their stories, you
know, that are over in country and
681
00:47:54.159 --> 00:47:58.320
just come back. But you also
got guys that are on these different platoons.
682
00:47:58.679 --> 00:48:01.960
And so when we start talking about
roberts Ridge and you know some of
683
00:48:01.960 --> 00:48:05.360
the them that guys that rolled their
eyes and like, what's the way you're
684
00:48:05.440 --> 00:48:07.159
rolling your eyes about? You know, and they start telling me the real
685
00:48:07.239 --> 00:48:10.280
story about what kind of happened,
just like, yes, Lab left the
686
00:48:10.280 --> 00:48:14.000
guy you know, left Chapman up
there. I'm just like, so I'm
687
00:48:14.039 --> 00:48:16.000
kind of hearing it, you know, as far as on the side,
688
00:48:16.559 --> 00:48:21.039
but you know, it doesn't come
public for a long period of time.
689
00:48:21.639 --> 00:48:25.280
Well, tim Semanski's you know,
instead of them holding him accountable for that
690
00:48:25.400 --> 00:48:29.880
debacle and then all the lies that
they tried to cover up later on,
691
00:48:30.079 --> 00:48:35.280
as far as that he does,
he advances his career and he ends up
692
00:48:35.280 --> 00:48:40.239
at Group two as a commodore.
So now I'm a CCD instructor. I'm
693
00:48:40.239 --> 00:48:45.000
at you know, which my CEO
is over at the center on the west
694
00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:47.079
coast, even though I'm on the
east coast. But I got Tim Semanski,
695
00:48:47.159 --> 00:48:52.039
who is the commodore of Group two. And next thing, you know,
696
00:48:52.119 --> 00:48:55.079
as far as and I didn't know
that he had failed so miserably as
697
00:48:55.119 --> 00:48:59.480
a leader at dam Neck, was
kind of pushed out of Damn Neck and
698
00:49:00.079 --> 00:49:02.960
pretty much that you can go away. You don't really fit our need here,
699
00:49:04.639 --> 00:49:08.119
and we didn't know that Slab and
left Chapman behind. You know that
700
00:49:08.199 --> 00:49:12.639
he was on the wall of the
Rock of Shame at you know, over
701
00:49:12.679 --> 00:49:16.760
there that for all what he had
done wrong over at dev Group. So
702
00:49:16.880 --> 00:49:22.000
who does Tim samansk you pick up
to be his command master chief, Slab.
703
00:49:22.360 --> 00:49:27.199
So now you've got two guys that
are covering up what actually happened at
704
00:49:27.320 --> 00:49:30.920
Roberts Ridge, you know. And
now you know at that time they're trying
705
00:49:30.960 --> 00:49:34.880
to stop Chapman from getting a Congressional
Medal of Honor and as far as and
706
00:49:34.920 --> 00:49:37.719
they're basically trying to cover up.
They're changing their stories and what actually happened,
707
00:49:38.000 --> 00:49:43.840
you know, from what their original
statements were. And so now you
708
00:49:43.880 --> 00:49:47.920
know, in my community, you're
just like they didn't. We didn't realize
709
00:49:47.960 --> 00:49:51.800
these guys had messed up so much. It was kind of just a dev
710
00:49:51.880 --> 00:49:54.360
Group secret up until that point for
the most part, because we didn't,
711
00:49:54.400 --> 00:50:00.559
you know, have firsthand information.
When that information comes finally gets to be
712
00:50:00.639 --> 00:50:02.400
public, you know, as far
as I was just like, well shit,
713
00:50:02.440 --> 00:50:06.719
and I wonder I was having such
a hard time with this guy because
714
00:50:06.760 --> 00:50:12.119
he was he had tried to bribe
Dwayne Deeter because he wanted Dwayne Deeter to
715
00:50:12.199 --> 00:50:16.079
basically teach CQD or mixed martial arts
and put a Seal tried in on it
716
00:50:16.320 --> 00:50:22.440
and say, hey, you're the
Seal Martial Arts trainer and or CQD trainer
717
00:50:22.519 --> 00:50:24.960
or whatever. He wanted to sell
DVDs and go out to the do franchise.
718
00:50:27.239 --> 00:50:30.559
Say when you say, he who
are you talking about? Tim Semanski
719
00:50:30.760 --> 00:50:37.360
basically tries to bribe Dwayne Deeter to
basically franchise his schools and try to put
720
00:50:37.360 --> 00:50:39.840
this out to the public, and
Dwayne says, hey, that's not why
721
00:50:39.840 --> 00:50:44.280
I'm doing this. That's not what
I'm about. You know this this these
722
00:50:44.320 --> 00:50:49.199
skills, you know, need to
stay close knit for the good guys.
723
00:50:49.480 --> 00:50:52.440
If we put it out like you're
talking about, the bad guys are going
724
00:50:52.519 --> 00:50:55.559
to get it and they're going to
use it against us. So he doesn't
725
00:50:55.559 --> 00:50:59.760
take the bride. He doesn't you
know, he doesn't go. You know,
726
00:50:59.800 --> 00:51:04.159
he doesn't get in bed with Tim
Semansky, which he kind of knew
727
00:51:04.360 --> 00:51:07.920
was kind of shady, but didn't
know to how level of the shadiness he
728
00:51:07.159 --> 00:51:12.679
was. So that's when they have
to work to get rid of Dwayne out
729
00:51:12.719 --> 00:51:15.639
of there, because everybody would talk
to Dwayne and come clean with everything.
730
00:51:15.880 --> 00:51:20.000
He he he worked with all the
squadrons, whether it's gold, red,
731
00:51:20.519 --> 00:51:24.800
you know, blue gray, and
so he cross pollinated everybody and made everybody,
732
00:51:24.880 --> 00:51:28.480
you know, a cohesive, you
know, kind of a group.
733
00:51:29.119 --> 00:51:34.639
And because Dwayne wouldn't take the bride, you know, Tim Semanski tries to
734
00:51:34.679 --> 00:51:37.280
put it basically, tries to get
rid of him out of damn neck.
735
00:51:37.440 --> 00:51:39.039
But at that point it was,
it was already spread to the teams.
736
00:51:39.039 --> 00:51:44.840
It was already going everywhere. And
so why that's important to me, or
737
00:51:44.920 --> 00:51:49.360
why I'm bringing it up, is
because now I'm the course manager of CQUD,
738
00:51:50.400 --> 00:51:54.280
and I got guys that are going
to combat tomorrow, and I got
739
00:51:54.440 --> 00:51:59.960
everybody that's going to the course rights
a critique and they say great stuff.
740
00:52:00.039 --> 00:52:01.639
I think, I wish we need
two more weeks of it. You know,
741
00:52:01.719 --> 00:52:05.400
we should have gotten this early.
You know, we need to do
742
00:52:05.440 --> 00:52:09.599
this right before we deploy. Just
thousands and thousands are sealed operators saying nothing
743
00:52:09.639 --> 00:52:13.639
but great things. And all of
a sudden, I got Tim Sumanski,
744
00:52:14.119 --> 00:52:17.039
who's the commodore, and some of
his cronies underneath them saying, oh no,
745
00:52:17.280 --> 00:52:21.280
that's you know, it's not operational, it doesn't work, it doesn't
746
00:52:21.280 --> 00:52:22.639
do this. I'm just like,
what are you talking about? As far
747
00:52:22.679 --> 00:52:28.440
as this is, here's a thousand
critiques, here's all the after action reports
748
00:52:28.440 --> 00:52:30.880
of guys saying how they used it, how effective it was, how they're
749
00:52:30.880 --> 00:52:34.760
going to get more of it,
how I used it when I was deployed,
750
00:52:35.159 --> 00:52:37.000
Just like, what the hell you
guys talking about? I had no
751
00:52:37.119 --> 00:52:40.159
clue that he tried to bribe Joindt
you know anything, you know really about
752
00:52:40.159 --> 00:52:45.679
it? And so I'm I'm running
into some heat from the the from the
753
00:52:45.719 --> 00:52:52.119
guys that Undergroup two, as far
as trade at who basically Assault Cell,
754
00:52:52.400 --> 00:52:55.000
and some of those guys have gotten
in trouble at Damn Neck and now they're
755
00:52:55.000 --> 00:52:59.360
over in Assault Cell. So they're
in a time out box because they've gotten
756
00:52:59.400 --> 00:53:04.119
in trouble. And now since Tim
Semanski saved them from getting maybe kicked out
757
00:53:04.159 --> 00:53:07.719
totally, they're going to do his
bidding whatever he wants them to do.
758
00:53:07.760 --> 00:53:12.679
So they're putting a spare campaign against
Duayne Dieter, saying that he sued the
759
00:53:12.719 --> 00:53:15.639
teams, which he never did.
That's all bullshit. He tried to say
760
00:53:15.679 --> 00:53:20.960
that, you know, Duayne Dieter
or CQD won't let us do mixed martial
761
00:53:21.079 --> 00:53:23.360
arts. We had no say so
on what they did as far as trade.
762
00:53:23.360 --> 00:53:27.360
That could do whatever they want.
We were just we were part of
763
00:53:27.360 --> 00:53:30.639
the center teaching CQD, which everybody
wanted. So they kind of put this
764
00:53:31.519 --> 00:53:36.199
They tried to make it like there
was a fight between next martial arts guys
765
00:53:36.320 --> 00:53:42.119
and CQUD, which there wasn't.
All of our instructors were mainly come from
766
00:53:42.119 --> 00:53:45.079
that same background already, and we
all knew the difference between what was operational
767
00:53:45.320 --> 00:53:50.280
and what wasn't operational. One was
sports base if one wasn't, So all
768
00:53:50.320 --> 00:53:52.440
of our guys, you know,
they tried to you know, so for
769
00:53:52.519 --> 00:54:00.199
the unwinning person, you got a
captain, you know, level officer who
770
00:54:00.320 --> 00:54:05.880
is basically putting out this smear campaign
against you know, a very highly successful
771
00:54:05.920 --> 00:54:09.599
course. He was the most sought
after. We had more instructor of the
772
00:54:09.679 --> 00:54:14.280
years come out of CQD, and
and like I said, it was one
773
00:54:14.280 --> 00:54:20.440
of the the courses that they used
as an example for whenever they did a
774
00:54:20.480 --> 00:54:24.400
dog and pony and things along those
lines. Had congressional level people if they
775
00:54:24.440 --> 00:54:28.679
wanted to, you know, show
how awesome seals were. They showed them
776
00:54:28.679 --> 00:54:37.000
CQD and a small little thing.
So now that so I'm running into problems
777
00:54:37.039 --> 00:54:39.480
here on the East Coast with CQD, you know, with with Tim Sumaski,
778
00:54:39.880 --> 00:54:44.519
who I didn't know was a turd
at the time. I didn't know
779
00:54:44.559 --> 00:54:47.480
how bad he was at the time. I just didn't understand why he was
780
00:54:47.599 --> 00:54:51.519
basically doing this. So I'm talking
with Dwayne. Dwayne said, yeah,
781
00:54:51.760 --> 00:54:55.440
I didn't take a bride. Dwayne
tells me that stuff, and he says
782
00:54:55.719 --> 00:55:00.920
he he says, really kind of
don't worry. We weren't really worried about
783
00:55:00.920 --> 00:55:07.079
it because Tim Semanski wasn't really I
didn't not a lot of respect you know,
784
00:55:07.119 --> 00:55:09.400
through the community. I don't know
how he ended up in that position
785
00:55:09.480 --> 00:55:15.840
after he screwed up roberts Ridge so
bad. So I'm running into problems with
786
00:55:15.920 --> 00:55:21.599
it. The West Coast guys start
running the problems over there, and so
787
00:55:21.719 --> 00:55:24.079
I was just like, you know, they're having similar issues kind of going
788
00:55:24.159 --> 00:55:28.119
with some of their trade at guys. Well, it just happens to be
789
00:55:28.199 --> 00:55:30.119
that the guy that's in trade,
you know, in charge of that trade
790
00:55:30.159 --> 00:55:36.480
at is Jocko. So now,
so I got Tim Semanski and I got
791
00:55:36.559 --> 00:55:38.599
Jocko, you know as far as
and they're teamed up trying to get rid
792
00:55:38.639 --> 00:55:43.760
of close quarters defense. So I'm
just like, so, Jocko, I'm
793
00:55:43.800 --> 00:55:46.559
just like, okay, why is
he going against CQUD. So I pull
794
00:55:46.639 --> 00:55:50.760
up his critiques, which I can. I can put those all over the
795
00:55:50.800 --> 00:55:52.679
internet right now. I got access
to all those critiques. You know,
796
00:55:52.760 --> 00:55:55.880
I was a course manager. I
got all the after action reports, and
797
00:55:57.119 --> 00:56:02.199
so I look at you know,
Jocko's his critique when he went through training,
798
00:56:02.760 --> 00:56:07.679
great stuff, highly recommended, the
Grood stuff. Now, Jocko comes
799
00:56:07.679 --> 00:56:10.719
from a jujitsu background or whatever he
does that, but he understood the operationally
800
00:56:10.840 --> 00:56:15.440
focused of the training. All his
guys that went through in Task Force Bruiser,
801
00:56:15.679 --> 00:56:19.320
as far as Leif Babin for a
sergeant, all those guys that I
802
00:56:19.320 --> 00:56:22.000
got their critiques, they said great
things about it when they went through the
803
00:56:22.039 --> 00:56:27.480
training. Now Jocko is in charge
of training on trade at and so I'm
804
00:56:27.559 --> 00:56:29.679
just like, well, you know, he was that team too with me,
805
00:56:30.159 --> 00:56:31.280
you know, for a period of
time before they did the whole four
806
00:56:31.400 --> 00:56:35.400
tournament, before he became an officer, so I knew a little bit of
807
00:56:35.400 --> 00:56:37.440
his background. I'm trying to figure
out exactly what's going on. Then I
808
00:56:37.440 --> 00:56:42.159
started hearing about Task Force Bruiser and
everything that kind of went on with Task
809
00:56:42.159 --> 00:56:45.519
Force Bruiser. And at the time, I didn't know was Jocko and those
810
00:56:45.519 --> 00:56:49.920
guys down there in Ramadi. I
just knew that it was seals doing daylight
811
00:56:49.960 --> 00:56:52.960
patrols and daylight raids and they're getting
good seals killed, and we're just like,
812
00:56:53.000 --> 00:56:57.159
what the fuck is going on with
these guys down in Ramadi, And
813
00:56:57.840 --> 00:57:00.519
so at the time, I didn't
know exactly who it was to what was
814
00:57:00.559 --> 00:57:05.199
going on the West Coast instructors,
you know, as far as you know,
815
00:57:05.400 --> 00:57:08.199
they're getting those guys that went through
their training, they came back off
816
00:57:08.239 --> 00:57:13.039
that deployment. They're telling all the
stories about Chris Kyle shooting people that he
817
00:57:13.079 --> 00:57:15.119
shouldn't have been shooting, as far
as people off of bikes. He was
818
00:57:15.119 --> 00:57:19.639
trying to get a body count.
So Chris Kyle goes off the rails.
819
00:57:19.719 --> 00:57:23.559
He works directly under Jocko. Jocko
is basically pushing him out there because Jocko
820
00:57:24.760 --> 00:57:30.320
the platoon that Jocko relieved, You
know had great success doing DA Mission night
821
00:57:30.400 --> 00:57:35.280
raids and basically they you know,
Ramadi was a much safer place when they
822
00:57:35.320 --> 00:57:40.000
were there. Jocko comes in and
he has to try to beat their record.
823
00:57:40.079 --> 00:57:44.119
So the only way that he thinks
he can beat their record is basically
824
00:57:44.119 --> 00:57:47.920
getting a body count count. So
he tells Chris Kyle basically get a body
825
00:57:47.960 --> 00:57:52.679
count. So Chris Kyle starts going
out there and to get the numbers that
826
00:57:52.800 --> 00:57:55.480
Chris Kyle ended up with he shot
a lot of people he shouldn't have shot,
827
00:57:55.679 --> 00:58:00.679
and his platoon starts reporting that type
stuff up, and Jocko wasn't a
828
00:58:00.719 --> 00:58:05.199
short period of time before Jocko was
just like, you can't approve an op
829
00:58:05.519 --> 00:58:10.880
you can only approve logistical runs.
And when you say people started reporting it
830
00:58:12.079 --> 00:58:15.800
up, do you mean that people
started reporting as numbers up or people started
831
00:58:15.800 --> 00:58:21.000
reporting up that he was shooting people
that he probably should not have been shooting.
832
00:58:22.320 --> 00:58:25.159
So when Mark Lee, yeah,
that's good, great points, and
833
00:58:25.320 --> 00:58:30.719
I can I can jump around a
little bit. But so Jocko's in the
834
00:58:30.800 --> 00:58:37.920
country before Mark Lee gets shot or
you know, before that situation happens.
835
00:58:39.400 --> 00:58:44.400
Seale Team six operator goes to Jocko
says, hey, they know that you're
836
00:58:44.440 --> 00:58:46.559
leaving the When you're leaving the wire, you got your punisher patch, you
837
00:58:46.599 --> 00:58:51.199
know, thing on your body arm, and they know who you are.
838
00:58:51.480 --> 00:58:53.639
They're id in you when you leave, They're following where you're going to.
839
00:58:54.079 --> 00:58:58.880
Your guys are putting up a huge
American flag, you know when you get
840
00:58:58.920 --> 00:59:01.320
out there, because you're supposed to
be in a sniper hyde. You're exposing
841
00:59:01.320 --> 00:59:06.119
who you are. And you guys, you're gonna get guys killed doing what
842
00:59:06.159 --> 00:59:10.840
you're doing. And Jocko tells this
senior Seal Team six operator, fuck you,
843
00:59:12.079 --> 00:59:15.039
I'm taking it to the enemy.
And so Jocko basically so this Seal
844
00:59:15.079 --> 00:59:20.480
Team six operator basically warns them.
And I don't know if Jocko told his
845
00:59:20.599 --> 00:59:23.280
guys before they went out that they, Hey, they already know who you
846
00:59:23.320 --> 00:59:27.079
are. They're watching when you leave
the wire. They know what your vehicles
847
00:59:27.119 --> 00:59:30.400
look like and everything else. I
don't know if Jocko told his guys that.
848
00:59:30.000 --> 00:59:34.719
But since I've done my last podcast, more and more guys are talking
849
00:59:34.760 --> 00:59:37.760
to me from there, so I'm
getting more and more information as that kind
850
00:59:37.760 --> 00:59:43.320
of happens. So most of them
didn't know that he was warned the guys
851
00:59:43.320 --> 00:59:47.719
that I'm talking to so far right
now, So Jocko was warned. He
852
00:59:47.800 --> 00:59:52.280
sends him out anyway, still doing
daylight patrols and you know, and that
853
00:59:52.320 --> 00:59:54.920
type stuff as far as trying to
get into gunfights, trying to basically cause
854
00:59:54.960 --> 00:59:59.039
situations that they don't need to killing
innocent people that they don't need to kill.
855
01:00:00.239 --> 01:00:04.199
Mark Lee ends up getting killed.
Some of those guys in the platoon
856
01:00:04.239 --> 01:00:07.639
come back with the body, go
to the funeral, and they're complaining,
857
01:00:07.840 --> 01:00:12.880
basically letting everybody know, hey,
Jocko is basically Chris Kyl's killing innocent people,
858
01:00:13.119 --> 01:00:15.559
and Jocko is basically just sending us
out on daylight patrol stuff that we
859
01:00:15.559 --> 01:00:19.920
didn't do during the work up and
just kind of just putting us out there.
860
01:00:20.159 --> 01:00:22.880
And they're starting to call him a
coward. They're saying, Jocko,
861
01:00:22.920 --> 01:00:25.239
you're a coward because you're making it. And most of the time our task
862
01:00:25.320 --> 01:00:28.920
unit commanders, you know, went
out with us as far as a lot
863
01:00:28.960 --> 01:00:30.880
of different times because you're going to
you know, you had a ground,
864
01:00:31.159 --> 01:00:36.360
you had you know, anyway,
you had those guys route on the battlefield
865
01:00:36.400 --> 01:00:39.519
with us. Most time, Jacko
wasn't going out. So another senior guy
866
01:00:39.599 --> 01:00:44.639
that he goes through him says,
hey, your guys are calling you a
867
01:00:44.679 --> 01:00:46.840
coward because you aren't going You're sending
him out and you're not going out with
868
01:00:46.920 --> 01:00:50.760
him. So Jacko said, well, I'll go out. He goes,
869
01:00:50.800 --> 01:00:53.159
and I'm going to shoot the first
and he said sand and he used the
870
01:00:53.239 --> 01:00:58.119
N word that I see, and
he just shows you what his intent was.
871
01:00:58.159 --> 01:01:04.039
So he basically tells that go ahead. I just want to I just
872
01:01:04.159 --> 01:01:07.519
like, I know you were getting
this information somewhere, but I also want
873
01:01:07.559 --> 01:01:13.000
to be very cautious about sort of
like like he said, she said,
874
01:01:13.039 --> 01:01:16.199
because you you didn't hear him say
that, correct, So like I just
875
01:01:16.239 --> 01:01:19.880
want to be very one other guy
in the office with him at the time,
876
01:01:20.079 --> 01:01:22.960
yeah, or there's other people that
were in the talk, uh that
877
01:01:23.199 --> 01:01:27.239
you know knew it too. But
as far as so, yeah, as
878
01:01:27.280 --> 01:01:30.719
far as these are all, what's
what's great about it? Because you know
879
01:01:30.719 --> 01:01:34.400
what, as a person who is
not on the you know, the internet,
880
01:01:34.639 --> 01:01:38.320
yeh does yes, I can overextend
myself and say something that gets myself
881
01:01:38.360 --> 01:01:42.920
in trouble, right and slander or
something along those lines. Luckily I got
882
01:01:42.920 --> 01:01:49.480
the truth. So it's so it's
it's I'm not concerned. I'll put it
883
01:01:49.679 --> 01:01:53.360
yeah, so real quick, because
you know this is this has come up
884
01:01:53.400 --> 01:01:58.840
when you've been on other shows and
uh, and I want to ask you
885
01:01:59.280 --> 01:02:07.519
do you hate No? No,
I'm just do you hate seals? No?
886
01:02:07.519 --> 01:02:09.280
No? And the reason why then
no, It brings up a great
887
01:02:09.280 --> 01:02:15.239
point because the reason why I'm doing
this is because if you let leaders like
888
01:02:15.400 --> 01:02:19.280
Jocko who got guys killed, and
you don't expose them for what they did
889
01:02:19.280 --> 01:02:22.320
and what they who they are because
we knew it in our community. That's
890
01:02:22.360 --> 01:02:25.719
why he that's why he ended up
in training. He didn't you know,
891
01:02:25.760 --> 01:02:30.719
he should have been going to an
exo position to if they wanted him to
892
01:02:30.719 --> 01:02:34.239
be in charge of men in combat, he should have progressed his career in
893
01:02:34.280 --> 01:02:37.719
another manner instead of going to training. Uh. And and so he went
894
01:02:37.760 --> 01:02:42.559
to he says he went to training, but he was the writing was on
895
01:02:42.599 --> 01:02:45.800
the wall that you were not going
to put up No. I get it,
896
01:02:45.840 --> 01:02:49.239
I get it. Eric. I
mean, if if you hated the
897
01:02:49.239 --> 01:02:52.599
Seal teams, you would disappear,
and there's no reason for you to be
898
01:02:52.679 --> 01:02:57.559
public right and putting this pressure on
yourself and I get it that you're doing
899
01:02:57.599 --> 01:03:00.519
it because this is something that you
care deeply, right, this is something
900
01:03:00.599 --> 01:03:08.159
that you know, and like we
talked about with the show that that certain
901
01:03:08.239 --> 01:03:14.519
things within the community are the things
that everybody points out as seals are bad,
902
01:03:15.039 --> 01:03:20.320
but seals aren't bad, and seals
have done amazing things, and unfortunately
903
01:03:20.360 --> 01:03:25.199
a lot of the amazing things that
seals have done get overlooked by the things
904
01:03:25.239 --> 01:03:29.280
that you know, you know,
we've we you know, before the show,
905
01:03:29.320 --> 01:03:31.039
we talked about Melger and I'm sure
we'll get to that, but you
906
01:03:31.079 --> 01:03:36.920
know, we talked about Chris Kyleer, we talk about other things that not
907
01:03:37.000 --> 01:03:39.480
taking away from maybe the good things
that Chris Kyle did do, but there
908
01:03:39.480 --> 01:03:45.440
were things that maybe he didn't do
that were not so great. What happened
909
01:03:45.440 --> 01:03:50.239
on that patrol that you started you
started to mention that that he went out
910
01:03:50.280 --> 01:03:57.039
on Jacko decides he gets shamed into
going out and uh, and of course
911
01:03:57.079 --> 01:04:00.800
he doesn't go out on a daylight
that he goes on a helo insert at
912
01:04:00.880 --> 01:04:04.079
night. And so when you you
know, you guys know you land you
913
01:04:04.159 --> 01:04:08.320
got a brown out situation and uh, you know you're waiting for the dust
914
01:04:08.360 --> 01:04:11.679
to settle. See what who you
have learned? You're not landing on the
915
01:04:11.880 --> 01:04:15.239
X. You're meeting up with somebody, a source, you know, see
916
01:04:16.239 --> 01:04:19.159
a source that's going to take you
to the target where the bad guys are
917
01:04:19.199 --> 01:04:25.599
at. So the disk, the
dust settles are sources there. And Jocko
918
01:04:25.679 --> 01:04:28.719
sees a guy with a slung a
K and he shoots him in that face.
919
01:04:28.800 --> 01:04:31.599
Basically, well, that just happens
to be our source and we're basically
920
01:04:31.679 --> 01:04:36.559
were supposed to take us on target. So so that's what happens, you
921
01:04:36.599 --> 01:04:40.119
know, on his first day.
That's what he how he you know,
922
01:04:40.440 --> 01:04:45.079
because he had That's why he got
the term a murderous soul, because he
923
01:04:45.159 --> 01:04:47.119
shot somebody because he said he was
going to do it, not that he
924
01:04:47.239 --> 01:04:49.719
was a threat, not that he
was somebody. He was just trying to
925
01:04:49.719 --> 01:04:54.480
make a name for himself. And
so it was just ridiculous that he you
926
01:04:54.519 --> 01:04:58.519
know that he did it. Of
course, you know, you can you
927
01:04:58.559 --> 01:05:00.840
can say, well he had a
weap and here, you know, I
928
01:05:00.880 --> 01:05:03.880
was felt threatened. You know,
It's just that Jocko doesn't didn't go out
929
01:05:03.960 --> 01:05:12.400
very often, didn't know exactly what
the protocols. Yeah, and so he
930
01:05:12.400 --> 01:05:16.199
he makes a huge mistake and you
know, and a guy dies because of
931
01:05:16.239 --> 01:05:20.880
it. They have to the entire
operation because of that, I imagine I'd
932
01:05:20.920 --> 01:05:24.920
have to ask exactly what happened.
More likely, I'm pretty sure that's what
933
01:05:24.960 --> 01:05:29.599
happened. And so where are you
going? Yeah? Where? Yeah exactly,
934
01:05:30.039 --> 01:05:33.199
And so so it's not it doesn't
pain us in a good light,
935
01:05:33.280 --> 01:05:36.800
and that's just kind of that's not
normal. I mean, our guys before
936
01:05:36.880 --> 01:05:44.000
him had huge success on that on
that same exact battlespace and and you know,
937
01:05:44.039 --> 01:05:46.199
so Jocko, that's why he gets
pushed the training, and that's why
938
01:05:46.559 --> 01:05:49.920
now that he's pushed the training and
he's just like, you're not going to
939
01:05:49.960 --> 01:05:53.760
make your next advancement, and he
goes, well, shit, I got
940
01:05:53.760 --> 01:05:56.760
to start lining up something for when
I get out of the Navy. So
941
01:05:56.840 --> 01:06:00.800
that's when he starts victory Jim.
He teams up with a no drug fellon
942
01:06:00.199 --> 01:06:03.119
you know as far as him,
and he gets in trouble because he teams
943
01:06:03.159 --> 01:06:08.360
up with enlisted guys and they start
trying trying to push contracts to his own
944
01:06:08.440 --> 01:06:12.039
gym. That's when I get involved
with CQD. I'm just like, who
945
01:06:12.039 --> 01:06:15.519
the fuck is this Jocko guy on
the West Coast, and why is he
946
01:06:15.559 --> 01:06:17.760
trying to get rid of CQD.
You know, as far as when the
947
01:06:17.800 --> 01:06:21.480
critiques are saying all these great things
and all his guys are saying great things,
948
01:06:21.639 --> 01:06:26.920
Well, it's because Jocko started up
a gym when he wants contracts and
949
01:06:27.000 --> 01:06:30.320
him and Tim Sumanski. So now
you know, we've got East Coast and
950
01:06:30.360 --> 01:06:34.800
West Coast guys teaming up against putting
this mirror campaign against CQD and Dwayne Dieter
951
01:06:35.480 --> 01:06:41.480
and just like and a lot of
guys don't know where you know, unless
952
01:06:41.480 --> 01:06:44.920
they talk to me personally or they
talk to the CCD instructors, they don't
953
01:06:44.960 --> 01:06:47.079
know the whole background and what's going
on. So they're just like the team
954
01:06:47.119 --> 01:06:51.559
guys are just like what direction are
we going? What are we doing?
955
01:06:51.719 --> 01:06:55.719
It reminds me a little bit of
like the Element was I think it was
956
01:06:55.760 --> 01:06:59.559
Element one out at Damn Neck and
that that resulted in a huge, like
957
01:06:59.679 --> 01:07:04.840
ig complaint where they it was like
an insider baseball kind of deal where people
958
01:07:04.920 --> 01:07:10.000
within the unit were selling stuff,
you know, privately back to their youth.
959
01:07:10.159 --> 01:07:13.719
Yeah. Yeah, and that's that's
you know, as far as so
960
01:07:13.840 --> 01:07:17.320
Tim Samanski was trying to push contracts
to his guy, you know, on
961
01:07:17.360 --> 01:07:21.000
the East coast, which was another
gym, Lynx Academy, as far as
962
01:07:21.159 --> 01:07:28.039
Frank Cauci another turn that tried to
sell DVDs like learned the secret fighting techniques
963
01:07:28.039 --> 01:07:31.440
of Navy Seals and all this stupid
ridiculous stuff. This is who he teams
964
01:07:31.519 --> 01:07:35.039
up with on the wet on the
East coast, Jocko at his gym on
965
01:07:35.079 --> 01:07:40.519
the West coast, and they're just
put on this smear campaign against a true
966
01:07:40.599 --> 01:07:45.719
quiet professional who has done who's you
know, at that time, probably eighteen
967
01:07:45.840 --> 01:07:50.559
nineteen years of already training us and
we had thousands and thousands of critiques of
968
01:07:50.840 --> 01:07:55.480
nothing but positive, great things.
One of the most successful courses NSW ever
969
01:07:55.519 --> 01:07:59.559
had. So how did it all
past? These guys are leadership positions and
970
01:07:59.639 --> 01:08:03.239
training. They really had a lot
of you know, basically pool on which
971
01:08:03.239 --> 01:08:08.760
way contracts went or who they went
to, and so the guys are just
972
01:08:08.880 --> 01:08:13.840
busy operating going overseas. They're not
really worried about what's kind of happening on
973
01:08:13.840 --> 01:08:15.199
on the training side of it.
So a lot of them didn't even know
974
01:08:15.600 --> 01:08:21.079
that they were doing this, and
so At some point I run into the
975
01:08:21.119 --> 01:08:26.560
corruption so bad and the CEO on
the West coast, who was my CEO,
976
01:08:26.800 --> 01:08:31.720
Spence goes, hey, it's you
know deaders won the contract every time.
977
01:08:31.760 --> 01:08:34.439
I mean he's every time he's gone
up forbid, you know, every
978
01:08:34.479 --> 01:08:38.880
couple of years and whatever, and
he competes against these other people. It
979
01:08:38.960 --> 01:08:43.560
won by fifty, you know,
plus points over the closest competitor, Tim
980
01:08:43.600 --> 01:08:47.960
Semanski's guy as far as was the
lowest ranking one as far as Jocko because
981
01:08:48.000 --> 01:08:51.680
he was trying to push contracts to
his gym, got found out and got
982
01:08:51.720 --> 01:08:56.880
exposed and that's why he got the
contract ethics fraud. So you know,
983
01:08:57.279 --> 01:09:01.880
he's still now that we basically he's
failed on the battlefield as a seal leader
984
01:09:02.479 --> 01:09:06.680
as you know out there now he's
feeling as a training guy. Yeah,
985
01:09:06.960 --> 01:09:10.800
just like unpack a little bit how
that happened. You said that there was
986
01:09:10.840 --> 01:09:15.439
a like an ethical violation came up
within NSW or War com. I mean,
987
01:09:15.439 --> 01:09:18.159
could you tell us a little bit
about how that came about. Yeah,
988
01:09:18.199 --> 01:09:21.279
so, I you know, at
that point when you know, Spence
989
01:09:21.279 --> 01:09:25.359
says, hey, this is kind
of going above him, and the contracts
990
01:09:25.399 --> 01:09:30.760
were already won. He says there's
there's some corruption of He didn't say corruption.
991
01:09:30.840 --> 01:09:32.239
He goes, I don't know what's
going on above me, but if
992
01:09:32.279 --> 01:09:39.880
I were you guys, i'd file
a fraudways and abuse claim. So that's
993
01:09:39.920 --> 01:09:45.399
when you know the CEO basically,
you know, even though Sect had won
994
01:09:45.479 --> 01:09:48.319
all the contracts they had to,
you know, they were still trying to
995
01:09:48.319 --> 01:09:53.000
get rid of it. Even though
when it went up for evaluation, you
996
01:09:53.119 --> 01:09:57.479
had still seemed six. You had
every team put somebody in there to evaluate
997
01:09:57.520 --> 01:10:00.760
all these different things to make sure
we're doing the right thing, even though
998
01:10:00.760 --> 01:10:03.800
we had already been using it for
like eighteen years at that point and everybody
999
01:10:03.960 --> 01:10:10.720
was already validated, and Super would
just get getting further and further skill sets
1000
01:10:10.760 --> 01:10:13.520
because Dwayne was training us to a
higher and higher level. It goes up
1001
01:10:13.520 --> 01:10:16.720
to ten and so as we got
more and more experienced with CQD, we
1002
01:10:16.720 --> 01:10:21.920
could get higher and higher levels.
They tried to get this says they didn't
1003
01:10:21.960 --> 01:10:27.000
win the contract. They tried to
do away with all contracts as far as
1004
01:10:27.039 --> 01:10:31.439
within NSW and so they tried to
At that point, that's when I file
1005
01:10:31.520 --> 01:10:36.359
an IG complaint against it. And
that's where I named Tim Sumanski and I
1006
01:10:36.439 --> 01:10:42.520
named Jocko. Not knowing how screwed
up they were at roberts Ridge or Bruiser
1007
01:10:42.600 --> 01:10:45.359
at the time, I just knew
that these guys were pushing contracts to their
1008
01:10:45.399 --> 01:10:50.840
buddies who and they were selling a
product that was going to get guys killed
1009
01:10:51.399 --> 01:10:56.800
or they weren't going to be as
successful on the battlefield. They also didn't
1010
01:10:56.800 --> 01:11:00.159
have any ethics as far as these
guys that were training them, you know,
1011
01:11:00.199 --> 01:11:02.039
as far as Jacko was teamed up
with a known drug fell and we're
1012
01:11:02.039 --> 01:11:06.159
having drug issues in the teams.
Tim Semancy was teamed up with already a
1013
01:11:06.199 --> 01:11:13.520
guy who sold the seal, tried
brand to learn the secret fighting techniques of
1014
01:11:13.560 --> 01:11:17.640
a Navy seal. So not very
good quality battle that was that? That
1015
01:11:17.720 --> 01:11:23.640
was Frank Cucci. Frank Cucci,
Yeah, remember okay, And so I
1016
01:11:23.680 --> 01:11:26.239
mean, first off, I have
to throw out I would love to read
1017
01:11:26.239 --> 01:11:28.920
a copy of that i G complaint
if you still have it, Eric,
1018
01:11:29.720 --> 01:11:30.880
Oh, yeah, I got it. Yeah, I'd love to read that.
1019
01:11:31.199 --> 01:11:34.640
But so what was the result of
that IG complaint when the investigators got
1020
01:11:34.720 --> 01:11:42.039
involved? So at that point,
so I had pushed out the IG complaint.
1021
01:11:42.119 --> 01:11:45.920
It came back, you know,
as far as people in that chain
1022
01:11:45.920 --> 01:11:49.199
of command, as far as it
went to I had had to deploy to
1023
01:11:49.279 --> 01:11:56.479
Iraq, So I went immediately to
Iraq shortly after I filed it, and
1024
01:11:56.600 --> 01:12:01.319
pretty much it went it stayed within
NSW, And since it stated within NSW,
1025
01:12:02.000 --> 01:12:05.840
nothing really happened. As far as
I say, nothing really happened,
1026
01:12:06.520 --> 01:12:11.880
Jocko ends up happening to get Basically, you retire at twenty or ago,
1027
01:12:12.079 --> 01:12:15.399
or you're gonna be court martialed.
Pretty much was his options as far as
1028
01:12:15.680 --> 01:12:18.520
they actually they actually told them that
you were going to be court martial That's
1029
01:12:18.560 --> 01:12:21.079
what I was told. He was
told. You know, okay, the
1030
01:12:21.159 --> 01:12:26.199
knowledge I have is basically, he
retires at twenty what kind of you know,
1031
01:12:26.239 --> 01:12:30.279
if he's such a stand up seal
and wants to operate and just like
1032
01:12:30.560 --> 01:12:34.600
you know, Extreme Ownership or whatever
crappy book is, you know whatever,
1033
01:12:35.319 --> 01:12:38.880
you know, a seal wants to
operate, a seal wants to deploy.
1034
01:12:38.880 --> 01:12:42.359
It, Sure, a seal wants
to basically to get out at twenty.
1035
01:12:42.640 --> 01:12:45.800
The only reason you do that is
because you're not happy with what's going on
1036
01:12:45.840 --> 01:12:47.560
in the seal community and you're saying, I'm getting the fuck out of this
1037
01:12:47.640 --> 01:12:53.640
canoe club. Me. I loved
it. Would go back in and do
1038
01:12:53.720 --> 01:12:57.720
it all over again, exactly the
same, except for I would fight harder
1039
01:12:57.720 --> 01:13:01.960
against Tim Semanski and Jocko as far
as because they were able to have success,
1040
01:13:02.319 --> 01:13:04.640
you know, and getting rid of
CQD, you know, and it's
1041
01:13:04.640 --> 01:13:08.920
going to come back around. It's
got to, because it's the most operationally
1042
01:13:08.920 --> 01:13:12.920
effective training that we've ever had.
And once they do, because they'll bring
1043
01:13:12.960 --> 01:13:15.079
in the ethics and we won't won't
end up with the Melgar situation. We
1044
01:13:15.119 --> 01:13:19.680
won't end up with Jocko's, we
won't end up with Tim Sumanski because that
1045
01:13:19.920 --> 01:13:26.279
system exposes those guys. And when
it exposes them, because they can't hide
1046
01:13:26.279 --> 01:13:30.800
from the hood and you know they
can't, they find out what their sport
1047
01:13:30.880 --> 01:13:36.119
based stuff doesn't really have a positive
effect in the operational world. And so
1048
01:13:36.720 --> 01:13:42.479
those guys would be found out to
either be psychopaths or a guy that can't
1049
01:13:42.479 --> 01:13:45.399
control his anger correctly because he end
up with guys on steroids that shoot everybody
1050
01:13:45.439 --> 01:13:49.760
in the room. And the amount
of stress that CQD brings when you're doing
1051
01:13:49.800 --> 01:13:55.000
the hooded box drill. It's as
real as you can get as close to
1052
01:13:55.039 --> 01:13:59.439
combat as anything about I experienced.
I've had some hoods where I was more
1053
01:13:59.479 --> 01:14:04.840
stressed out and hitting any target,
you know, in Iraqi Afghanistans. There
1054
01:14:04.960 --> 01:14:12.439
was a lot of ethics incorporated in
the Deader's program. Correct exactly the last
1055
01:14:12.479 --> 01:14:15.720
part of so you got you had
unarmed, so you had to handle yourself
1056
01:14:15.800 --> 01:14:19.119
unarmed first, and then that went
into arms. Now you've got a gun
1057
01:14:19.119 --> 01:14:21.680
and you got your kid on how
to properly you know, respond to.
1058
01:14:21.960 --> 01:14:27.399
Then he got into prisoner control.
How now that you've detained somebody or you've
1059
01:14:27.399 --> 01:14:30.760
got somebody in your site and they're
they're being compliant, they're listening. Now
1060
01:14:30.760 --> 01:14:32.960
you've got to cut from search them
and transport them. Then he got into
1061
01:14:33.039 --> 01:14:36.880
operational you know, got into shooting
and some tactics as far as house entry
1062
01:14:36.920 --> 01:14:42.319
and that type of stuff. Then
he got into operational physical training, which
1063
01:14:42.359 --> 01:14:47.319
is now that you if you're going
to use these are up you know these
1064
01:14:47.359 --> 01:14:51.159
are you know, how do you
explain it as far as how like CrossFit
1065
01:14:51.279 --> 01:14:57.039
is functional fitness, Well, before
CrossFit, we had before CrossFit, we
1066
01:14:57.119 --> 01:15:01.359
had opts operational physical training. So
that was those things, those skills,
1067
01:15:01.439 --> 01:15:08.159
those physical exercise we did directly correlated
to how you would perform striking, shooting,
1068
01:15:08.560 --> 01:15:12.079
and you know, doing prisoner and
control, all that stuff as far
1069
01:15:12.119 --> 01:15:16.479
as was incorporated into operational physical training. Then now you've got all these different
1070
01:15:16.520 --> 01:15:21.520
skills. Now you get the what
we call the internal warrior. What are
1071
01:15:21.520 --> 01:15:25.319
you going to do with these skills
that you have. You're a freaking Navy
1072
01:15:25.359 --> 01:15:30.079
seal and you're getting ready to go
on the battlefield and you can't shoot and
1073
01:15:30.119 --> 01:15:32.319
get away with it a lot of
times. But is that the right thing
1074
01:15:32.319 --> 01:15:35.399
to do? Are you shooting the
right person? Are you shooting one of
1075
01:15:35.399 --> 01:15:40.479
our own sources? So if you're
trained at to a high enough level,
1076
01:15:40.720 --> 01:15:45.319
you can sit there and let the
situation kind of evolve a little bit without
1077
01:15:45.359 --> 01:15:49.720
shooting first, because you're that confident
in your skills of what you can take
1078
01:15:49.760 --> 01:15:54.640
that shot when you need to and
remove somebody from the planet that needs to
1079
01:15:55.039 --> 01:15:57.479
But you could sit there and let
it develop to where you're just like,
1080
01:15:57.520 --> 01:16:00.279
Okay, this guy's being somewhat compliant, and just like, okay, now
1081
01:16:00.279 --> 01:16:03.079
he's actually being fully compliant. Now
we're gonna you know, we can get
1082
01:16:03.119 --> 01:16:09.560
a lot of good intel off this
guy. So when you have these skill
1083
01:16:09.600 --> 01:16:12.399
set, the ethical side of it
is, yeah, you can go out
1084
01:16:12.399 --> 01:16:15.520
there and shoot everybody you want,
but or you can sit there and do
1085
01:16:15.560 --> 01:16:16.960
the you know, because you're going
to live with that bagage the rest of
1086
01:16:16.960 --> 01:16:23.359
your life. When you ask a
warrior just like, well, how many
1087
01:16:23.359 --> 01:16:26.840
people have you killed? I hate
it when somebody asks those questions to a
1088
01:16:26.960 --> 01:16:31.199
green breat ranger seal because what they're
going to remember is the one that they
1089
01:16:31.319 --> 01:16:36.479
wish they didn't do. And so
and so when you get when you're trained
1090
01:16:36.520 --> 01:16:43.079
to a lower level, you shoot
sooner than you need to sometimes. And
1091
01:16:43.159 --> 01:16:48.920
so what Dwayne's system did for us
is that allowed us to basically have more
1092
01:16:48.960 --> 01:16:55.479
success on the battlefield because we could
let we're more mature. We could we
1093
01:16:55.560 --> 01:16:58.600
had the internal warrior. We could
dial it up as fast as we needed
1094
01:16:58.640 --> 01:17:01.840
to protect ourselves and our buddies,
but we could also let it mature and
1095
01:17:01.880 --> 01:17:05.920
make sure that we're making the right
decision and making those right decisions. When
1096
01:17:05.960 --> 01:17:11.000
you come home five six years later
and you got all this baggage, you're
1097
01:17:11.119 --> 01:17:16.479
just like what happened on the battlefield
as far as that's when the internal warrior
1098
01:17:16.600 --> 01:17:20.520
really becomes an important part. That's
why we got the suicide situation that we
1099
01:17:20.600 --> 01:17:28.199
have within the teams because a lot
of guys got mentored by Jocko's or Tim
1100
01:17:28.239 --> 01:17:32.479
Semanski's and did some things or slab
you know on the battlefield, did stupid
1101
01:17:32.560 --> 01:17:35.920
things on the battlefield that they're not
happy about. And now they got that
1102
01:17:35.960 --> 01:17:43.239
bag show go ahead. I'm just
saying, or they saw some things that
1103
01:17:43.279 --> 01:17:46.359
they're not happy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, and then that
1104
01:17:46.399 --> 01:17:50.520
puts them in and that gets to
a good point because you know, for
1105
01:17:53.159 --> 01:17:56.680
why am I coming so hard against
these guys that you're exposing him? Why
1106
01:17:56.680 --> 01:18:00.600
am I? Like, you know, it's embarrassing to the Seale community.
1107
01:18:00.720 --> 01:18:03.640
It really is that these guys you
know, have been able to progress their
1108
01:18:03.680 --> 01:18:09.960
careers and that and that they're put
on such a pedestal. But if we
1109
01:18:10.039 --> 01:18:14.159
allow these things to go unchecked and
we go let these guys get away with
1110
01:18:14.199 --> 01:18:19.720
it, it produces other guys that
do very similar stuff and they think they
1111
01:18:19.720 --> 01:18:24.760
can get away with even more different
things. That's why you're talking about contracts
1112
01:18:24.800 --> 01:18:28.960
going to their own buddies that had
they you know, within our community,
1113
01:18:29.119 --> 01:18:30.840
you know, it was who can
who's got the most dirt on who so
1114
01:18:30.920 --> 01:18:35.079
that they could get a contract or
get something you know, special to themselves.
1115
01:18:35.199 --> 01:18:39.720
So your your ig complaint didn't really
go very far, is what you're
1116
01:18:39.720 --> 01:18:44.600
telling them, Not as far as
I wish it would. But Jocko does.
1117
01:18:44.760 --> 01:18:47.000
Jocko does go away, you know, as far as and he was
1118
01:18:47.079 --> 01:18:51.199
named in it. Tim Semanski doesn't
go away right away. But you know,
1119
01:18:51.520 --> 01:18:55.960
one of the great things as far
as when Matt Cole's book came out,
1120
01:18:56.079 --> 01:18:59.479
you know, Code over Country,
and I highly recommend, and I
1121
01:18:59.520 --> 01:19:00.760
had nothing to do with that book. I wasn't down at damn neck.
1122
01:19:01.039 --> 01:19:06.319
His all his sources are frigging or
stellar. Team recommend watching his Team House
1123
01:19:06.319 --> 01:19:13.039
interview by the way, Yeah,
And actually I when I did my research
1124
01:19:13.079 --> 01:19:15.640
on you guys, that was one
of the ones I watched, and it
1125
01:19:15.720 --> 01:19:18.199
was and it was interesting because he
talked about the hooded box drill a little
1126
01:19:18.199 --> 01:19:23.479
bit and and he says that,
you know, it was funny because the
1127
01:19:23.479 --> 01:19:28.119
guys that basically failed in the hooded
box drill that or or they wouldn't go
1128
01:19:28.159 --> 01:19:30.840
through it. They're afraid to go, you know, And I had guys
1129
01:19:30.880 --> 01:19:34.920
that would avoid it. Jocko on
a second time going through CQD, I
1130
01:19:34.960 --> 01:19:38.439
got to go to dential, you
know, just like and that's the the
1131
01:19:38.479 --> 01:19:42.479
Hooded Box drill was what every team
guy just loved doing. It was just
1132
01:19:42.520 --> 01:19:45.399
like it was testing your skills.
And then we did a video review right
1133
01:19:45.439 --> 01:19:50.920
at you know, of all the
because you go through individual first and you
1134
01:19:51.000 --> 01:19:56.239
go unarmed. Then we do a
video review of it of how what success
1135
01:19:56.279 --> 01:19:59.920
you had, all your teammates watch
you against all the role players, how
1136
01:20:00.119 --> 01:20:03.439
you performed going through you know that
drill, and you get all these like
1137
01:20:03.720 --> 01:20:09.800
you know, let's say anywhere from
eleven to fifteen scenarios of being attacked and
1138
01:20:09.880 --> 01:20:15.359
how you handle it. So you
get the value with this the you know,
1139
01:20:15.399 --> 01:20:19.039
the one eye that tells no lie
the video camera and which is great
1140
01:20:19.079 --> 01:20:25.640
because that's why the Predator feed is
so important to Marcus Latrell's story and slab
1141
01:20:25.720 --> 01:20:30.359
and all that stuff, because when
those videos come out, it's just like
1142
01:20:30.439 --> 01:20:33.439
its points, it tells the real
picture and there's no hiding anymore. So
1143
01:20:33.640 --> 01:20:38.760
just like the Hooded Box, you
can't hide, and the video review slows
1144
01:20:38.800 --> 01:20:42.000
it down so that you know exactly
what mistakes you made, so that you
1145
01:20:42.039 --> 01:20:45.319
don't make them again, and everybody
loved it because they made them such a
1146
01:20:45.319 --> 01:20:49.159
better operator. And the guys that
made mistakes that pointed him out just like,
1147
01:20:49.199 --> 01:20:53.520
Okay, maybe that guy needs to
be basically not the first guy in
1148
01:20:53.560 --> 01:20:58.199
the train, or he might be
outside security or something because he's shooting everybody
1149
01:20:58.239 --> 01:21:00.880
in the room, or and you
mediate them you basically say hey, why
1150
01:21:01.039 --> 01:21:04.359
you know? And so the ethical
part comes into, you know, play
1151
01:21:04.760 --> 01:21:10.439
or if you're prisoner abuse that you're
you know, mishandling the role players because
1152
01:21:10.479 --> 01:21:13.600
you feel like they got one over
on you or something along those lines.
1153
01:21:13.720 --> 01:21:17.239
You know, you were able to
id those guys, and because you could
1154
01:21:17.279 --> 01:21:19.800
id them, you could point them
out to the leadership say hey, keep
1155
01:21:19.800 --> 01:21:24.279
an eye on them. You know
this, or they understood you talk to
1156
01:21:24.359 --> 01:21:27.359
them. We talked to them directly
first, just like, hey, you
1157
01:21:27.439 --> 01:21:30.520
understand right why that's bad and why
this doesn't you know, it could have
1158
01:21:30.760 --> 01:21:33.000
a negative effect not only on your
team, but it might be you know,
1159
01:21:33.039 --> 01:21:36.399
you just shot the guy that we
needed or that had the information or
1160
01:21:36.399 --> 01:21:41.159
something because you were just overwhelmed by
all these different threats are in the room
1161
01:21:41.680 --> 01:21:45.239
and uh, and you decide to
shoot more than you needed to shoot.
1162
01:21:45.520 --> 01:21:46.800
You see, that guy didn't have
a gun. You see, you know,
1163
01:21:46.840 --> 01:21:49.760
in the video review, you can
easily see who's a threat and who's
1164
01:21:49.800 --> 01:21:55.000
not, and they're just anyway.
And that so the hooded box drill does
1165
01:21:56.119 --> 01:22:01.000
a great job of pointing out some
of our psychopaths and it makes us way
1166
01:22:01.039 --> 01:22:06.399
better operators. And you know,
and the instructors that were seeking the instructors
1167
01:22:06.439 --> 01:22:12.560
took their jobs so seriously because what
we were teaching those guys, they might
1168
01:22:12.640 --> 01:22:15.840
use it tomorrow out in town,
you know, basically, or on a
1169
01:22:15.880 --> 01:22:19.760
subway or you know, or down
range in Iraqi, Afghanistan, and you
1170
01:22:19.840 --> 01:22:25.199
better make sure what you're teaching these
guys is they got the best chances of
1171
01:22:26.000 --> 01:22:30.760
succeeding and saving them and their buddies'
lives. Eric, Eric, you mentioned
1172
01:22:30.760 --> 01:22:33.239
it briefly, and I would like
to kind of put more of a point
1173
01:22:33.319 --> 01:22:36.880
on it and talk about it a
bit more. Is Operation Red Wings,
1174
01:22:38.640 --> 01:22:45.439
and you know you mentioned it in
regards to Tim Sumanski. I have to
1175
01:22:45.560 --> 01:22:48.279
just preface the conversation a little bit
to say that I do have some empathy
1176
01:22:48.359 --> 01:22:54.000
for Marcus latrell as a as a
junior guy in a firefight and I'm hesitant.
1177
01:22:55.359 --> 01:22:57.840
I mean, we do our after
action reviews, right, but it's
1178
01:22:57.880 --> 01:23:03.039
professional, not personal, and I
I do have some empathy for a guy
1179
01:23:03.079 --> 01:23:09.199
who is in that moment and dealing
with that. But there's this whole higher
1180
01:23:09.359 --> 01:23:13.399
level of essentially cover ups that we've
been talking about, and there was a
1181
01:23:13.479 --> 01:23:17.399
cover up around Operation Red Wings,
and that's something that I really just find
1182
01:23:17.520 --> 01:23:27.680
kind of reprehensible. Yeah, so
let me just I'll get to those points
1183
01:23:27.720 --> 01:23:30.319
too. Sure, we'll back up
a little bit because you know, Marcus
1184
01:23:30.399 --> 01:23:36.079
is going through BUDS and he's got
a twin brother as he's going through BUDS,
1185
01:23:36.079 --> 01:23:40.359
and his twin brother is you know, so when you're in first phase
1186
01:23:40.399 --> 01:23:44.279
of BUDS, if you get a
day, if you get even like eight
1187
01:23:44.319 --> 01:23:46.039
hours of sleep, you know,
or you know, or more sleep because
1188
01:23:46.079 --> 01:23:50.600
you got to be there so early
and everything that to just basically to recover
1189
01:23:50.960 --> 01:23:55.239
is you know, is a chore. That's why the attrition rates so high
1190
01:23:55.279 --> 01:23:58.000
because you never really get a chance
to recover a lot of times, you're
1191
01:23:58.039 --> 01:24:02.439
just basically grinding and grinding every day
is to just the times are getting less
1192
01:24:02.800 --> 01:24:08.560
is getting harder, and so if
you got four days to recover, that's
1193
01:24:08.920 --> 01:24:12.800
that's huge. So his brother comes
in and fills in for four days,
1194
01:24:13.119 --> 01:24:17.880
and and and those instructors, if
they would have known that Marcus was going
1195
01:24:17.960 --> 01:24:21.079
to quit on the battlefield the way
he did, and and I understand these
1196
01:24:21.079 --> 01:24:24.840
stories. You think he's a junior
guy, and you know and that.
1197
01:24:25.399 --> 01:24:29.840
But the problem is is that all
his magazines were full. He ran down
1198
01:24:29.840 --> 01:24:33.279
the hill and left his buddies.
So I have a hard time for giving
1199
01:24:33.399 --> 01:24:39.279
him for that. You know,
he didn't respond as a guy that should
1200
01:24:39.279 --> 01:24:42.760
have. You know, that didn't
get through buds correctly in my opinion.
1201
01:24:43.439 --> 01:24:46.439
Uh. And and if those guys
would have known that he would have quit
1202
01:24:46.479 --> 01:24:49.560
on the battlefield the way they did, they probably wouldn't have let him graduate
1203
01:24:49.640 --> 01:24:51.880
or get out of face. They
would have probably made him redo that whole
1204
01:24:51.880 --> 01:24:56.039
phase. He might not be a
sealed today. Wait wait, okay,
1205
01:24:56.079 --> 01:24:59.800
so I had to get that out
now, go ahead, Hold on,
1206
01:25:00.039 --> 01:25:04.199
Marcus Patrol had an identical twin brother
who filled in for him. Yeah,
1207
01:25:04.239 --> 01:25:09.239
you didn't know this. I did
not, congress, I did not.
1208
01:25:09.479 --> 01:25:12.199
I I don't. I don't keep
up with them. He's a seal too,
1209
01:25:13.319 --> 01:25:15.800
And was he already a seal when
when when no, he was he
1210
01:25:15.840 --> 01:25:20.239
was a civilian going through college,
came down to visit his brother, and
1211
01:25:20.279 --> 01:25:24.840
his brother was having a hard time. Marcus is having a hard time,
1212
01:25:25.359 --> 01:25:30.800
and so he basically something and his
brother's in great shape, identical twin.
1213
01:25:31.399 --> 01:25:34.800
What was funny about it was,
you know, Marcus was in the goon
1214
01:25:34.880 --> 01:25:39.039
squad in the back. He was
a slow runner, big guy, and
1215
01:25:39.159 --> 01:25:41.600
uh, all of a sudden,
his brother shows up and he's running up
1216
01:25:41.600 --> 01:25:46.039
there where the instructors are at and
his you know, Marcus's budd glasses.
1217
01:25:46.079 --> 01:25:50.560
Basically, hey, get back here. You know you're doing too good because
1218
01:25:50.600 --> 01:25:55.600
you're fresh and got fresh legs and
you're not injured or whatever. So the
1219
01:25:55.640 --> 01:25:59.800
instructors never knew about it until almost
the end of first phase, and so
1220
01:26:00.000 --> 01:26:01.920
when it got exposed, they were
just like holy shit. You know,
1221
01:26:01.960 --> 01:26:05.199
they were embarrassed that it happened.
They were just like, okay, there's
1222
01:26:05.239 --> 01:26:09.880
a we use the term if you're
not cheating, you're not trying, yeah,
1223
01:26:10.079 --> 01:26:15.319
and that's it's a bad saying.
What they're trying to say is,
1224
01:26:15.439 --> 01:26:19.279
hey, think outside the box.
It's not have your brother fill in for
1225
01:26:19.319 --> 01:26:24.239
a period of time, yeh,
cheat you know, or do something that's
1226
01:26:24.279 --> 01:26:29.039
not ethical or or not correct.
We want you to get through buds.
1227
01:26:29.079 --> 01:26:30.640
We want you to get through buds
without steroids. We want you to get
1228
01:26:30.640 --> 01:26:35.239
through buds, you know, on
your own merit. And and every instructor
1229
01:26:35.279 --> 01:26:39.600
when I went through, wanted as
many seals as you guys to get through
1230
01:26:39.640 --> 01:26:42.920
it, but they wanted to make
sure that, you know, you were
1231
01:26:43.000 --> 01:26:48.000
the right mental fortitude to get through. And and so when they found out
1232
01:26:48.000 --> 01:26:51.800
about it they had they were kind
of put in this weird position, do
1233
01:26:51.880 --> 01:26:57.720
we expose it or not? And
I decided to kind of keep it under
1234
01:26:57.760 --> 01:27:00.319
wraps. It's funny because that is
like the if you ain't cheating, you
1235
01:27:00.319 --> 01:27:04.319
ain't trying, which is which is
if you get caught, you're not trying
1236
01:27:04.319 --> 01:27:09.399
to that. And that's that's the
second part of that saying, though is
1237
01:27:09.439 --> 01:27:13.720
it is it? It's only cheating
if you don't get caught. And and
1238
01:27:13.760 --> 01:27:17.279
if you get caught then oh well, like that's that's the second part of
1239
01:27:17.319 --> 01:27:27.640
that saying. You know, that's
it's both admirable and also and also he
1240
01:27:27.760 --> 01:27:31.239
got caught that should have been That's
not a huge issue for me, per
1241
01:27:31.319 --> 01:27:36.319
se per se, I just wanted
to get by, but I wanted to,
1242
01:27:36.359 --> 01:27:39.720
you know, he said, because
he's a junior guy out on the
1243
01:27:39.720 --> 01:27:43.279
battlefield. He had already had an
incident before that, one that you guys
1244
01:27:43.279 --> 01:27:45.159
don't know about where he kind of
ran did some stuff, and he was
1245
01:27:45.560 --> 01:27:50.000
and he wasn't fitting in well with
his platoon. He was out chasing ass
1246
01:27:50.039 --> 01:27:55.680
at the at the on base you
know, hospital or whatever, because he
1247
01:27:55.760 --> 01:28:00.560
was a core man. And so
instead of prepping in and they're team also
1248
01:28:00.600 --> 01:28:03.600
failed multiple what they call, you
know, final training exercise or you know
1249
01:28:03.680 --> 01:28:06.319
for STV guys, that might be
a little bit different, but they had
1250
01:28:06.319 --> 01:28:11.520
failed it like three times, and
they weren't they weren't taking their job seriously,
1251
01:28:11.720 --> 01:28:15.079
you know, for the most part. Marcus definitely wasn't. And uh,
1252
01:28:15.279 --> 01:28:17.079
now they're in Afghanistan. They get
basically put on the side of a
1253
01:28:17.159 --> 01:28:23.279
mountain, they get in their first
firefight, and Marcus does exactly what you
1254
01:28:23.319 --> 01:28:27.039
know, somebody who really wasn't really
tested, you know, and didn't really
1255
01:28:27.079 --> 01:28:31.560
apply himself. He runs away from
it with pretty much with a fully loaded
1256
01:28:31.600 --> 01:28:34.840
down you know, chess, you
know, harness and everything else and leaves
1257
01:28:34.840 --> 01:28:39.600
his guys behind. The situation might
have been different if there was a solid
1258
01:28:39.600 --> 01:28:43.039
team guy up there fighting with him. It might be a whole different story,
1259
01:28:43.279 --> 01:28:47.920
right then, So it happens,
You're right, So it happens.
1260
01:28:48.199 --> 01:28:51.119
And then then it's called for you
know, a q RF. The Red
1261
01:28:51.119 --> 01:28:55.319
Wings you know, gets launched in
there, they get shot down by an
1262
01:28:55.439 --> 01:28:59.520
Essay seven. For some reason,
the leadership didn't want you know, they
1263
01:28:59.520 --> 01:29:03.279
were saying is an RPG when it
was all just like no eye witnesses counts
1264
01:29:03.279 --> 01:29:09.159
on multiple different people from different helicopters
and different you know, said no,
1265
01:29:09.279 --> 01:29:14.079
it freaking it wasn't an RPG.
But for some reason they have to basically
1266
01:29:14.720 --> 01:29:18.399
the other team guys that were on
the other helicopter have to basically say it
1267
01:29:18.439 --> 01:29:21.199
was an RP. You know,
it was an RPG, and they you
1268
01:29:21.199 --> 01:29:25.760
know, are anyway. So I
don't know why they held that information,
1269
01:29:25.880 --> 01:29:30.479
covered that up, and they shouldn't
know because that just exposed it other helicopters
1270
01:29:30.479 --> 01:29:32.760
that didn't know what they were doing
or that they were running into that situation.
1271
01:29:33.119 --> 01:29:36.079
I think that is the thing.
You know, you talk about this
1272
01:29:36.279 --> 01:29:43.960
cover up, and you know,
there are a lot of very heroic and
1273
01:29:44.119 --> 01:29:49.199
very capable seals, and and I
wonder at what level in the leadership,
1274
01:29:49.239 --> 01:29:56.520
though, these cover ups or these
these desires to hide the mistakes and hide
1275
01:29:56.600 --> 01:30:01.920
these things dishonor dishonor everybody else.
Because even with Chapman, I could be
1276
01:30:01.960 --> 01:30:05.279
wrong, and you you guys can
probably correct me if I am. But
1277
01:30:05.359 --> 01:30:13.319
I thought that Slabinsky originally said that, you know, he originally told the
1278
01:30:13.479 --> 01:30:16.239
story that put Chapman in a good
light or that I didn't know or whatever,
1279
01:30:16.720 --> 01:30:25.039
and then then Special Warfare Command basically
came down on him and his story
1280
01:30:25.199 --> 01:30:30.800
changed. No, So what what
originally happened was they they talked highly about
1281
01:30:30.880 --> 01:30:34.479
Chapman. He got whatever the Air
Force like a silver Star or something pretty
1282
01:30:34.520 --> 01:30:40.199
high metal or whatever. They he
fought valiantly. He was like awesome.
1283
01:30:40.560 --> 01:30:44.840
But but what slab says is that
he checked on me. He said he
1284
01:30:44.920 --> 01:30:48.039
was dead right, that's why he
left them behind. And well he doesn't
1285
01:30:48.079 --> 01:30:50.640
even get close to the body.
He never checked, you know, gets
1286
01:30:50.720 --> 01:30:55.000
it, And so you know,
Chapman might have been you know, so
1287
01:30:55.159 --> 01:30:58.640
here's a nothing. Chapman had gone
through CQD training. All those guys have
1288
01:30:58.720 --> 01:31:01.920
gone through CQD training, so he
was well, you know, trained as
1289
01:31:01.920 --> 01:31:05.840
far as operating with US he takes
that machine gun bunker, thinking those guys
1290
01:31:05.840 --> 01:31:09.560
are going to be on his left
and shoulder because he's done entry. He's
1291
01:31:09.640 --> 01:31:14.199
expecting them to respond with the training
that he has had, and so he
1292
01:31:14.279 --> 01:31:18.880
might have been just laying quietly trying
to snipe somebody and didn't realize the seals
1293
01:31:18.880 --> 01:31:23.560
were basically, you know, a
couple of them gotten hit and that they're
1294
01:31:23.680 --> 01:31:29.159
escaping down the mountain. But later
on, for whatever reason, Chapman basically
1295
01:31:29.199 --> 01:31:31.520
starts fighting again. Some people said
he might have been knocked out, but
1296
01:31:31.720 --> 01:31:35.119
you know, in my opinion,
he's probably just laying almost bread and trying
1297
01:31:35.159 --> 01:31:39.359
to snipe somebody, and when he
finally got the shot, he probably did
1298
01:31:39.399 --> 01:31:42.239
it. So he foughts, you
know, for hours, you know,
1299
01:31:42.359 --> 01:31:45.960
after the guys escaped down the mountain, and it wasn't until the third helicopter
1300
01:31:46.079 --> 01:31:50.520
came in where he exposed trying to
protect that helicopter is when he finally gets
1301
01:31:50.520 --> 01:31:57.399
shot and killed. So he's he's
on the first assertion with the helicopter crashes,
1302
01:31:57.680 --> 01:32:00.880
then he's basically on the second one
where he takes machine gun bunkers,
1303
01:32:00.960 --> 01:32:05.399
kills, goes hand to hand fighting
multiple different people. Because Slab convince them
1304
01:32:05.439 --> 01:32:10.319
not to take a pistol for whatever
reason, or that's what I was told,
1305
01:32:10.720 --> 01:32:15.159
you know, as far as things
that you know, that we learned
1306
01:32:15.439 --> 01:32:16.960
after the fact that we would you
know, you're going to take with you
1307
01:32:17.600 --> 01:32:24.479
and Slab leaves them, Slab leaves
them, and Chapman fights, you know,
1308
01:32:24.479 --> 01:32:28.039
by himself, and that's what And
we didn't a lot of us knew
1309
01:32:28.319 --> 01:32:30.199
bits and pieces of the story,
yeah, you know, the full detail
1310
01:32:30.720 --> 01:32:35.720
until until the pred feed comes out
and exposes it. And Chapman's you know,
1311
01:32:36.079 --> 01:32:39.760
sister, you know, basically gets
with the PJ writes the book.
1312
01:32:40.039 --> 01:32:44.680
And there's a whole other chapter that
wasn't in the original book that I and
1313
01:32:45.199 --> 01:32:47.479
I want to say, chapter seventeen
or twenty seven. There's a whole other
1314
01:32:47.560 --> 01:32:51.560
chapter that you should read about how
Timson as he tries to stop this congression
1315
01:32:53.159 --> 01:32:59.119
his Congression medal, like in a
revised edition of the book. Yep.
1316
01:32:59.479 --> 01:33:03.000
Interesting they left so they didn't so
they didn't want to be a seal bash
1317
01:33:03.079 --> 01:33:06.920
in book. They just wanted to
recognize their guy, right. They didn't
1318
01:33:06.960 --> 01:33:11.520
realize that the you know, slab
and Tim Semanski were going to put this,
1319
01:33:11.680 --> 01:33:13.960
you know, try to stop it
and to be a kid. So
1320
01:33:14.000 --> 01:33:16.560
they were, they were trying to
do the honorable thing by not exposing this
1321
01:33:16.720 --> 01:33:19.479
part of it. They were just
like, well, shit, if you
1322
01:33:19.520 --> 01:33:21.920
guys are going to do that,
you know, as far as I wish
1323
01:33:21.960 --> 01:33:25.680
they would have had it in there, because they would have exposed our guys.
1324
01:33:25.880 --> 01:33:30.039
It wasn't until Code over Country exposed
to Tim Semanski that he doesn't advance
1325
01:33:30.119 --> 01:33:34.760
anymore. He might be in charge
of Jaysak today and you would have the
1326
01:33:34.840 --> 01:33:42.319
super turn in charge of the most
elite fighting forces you know on the world.
1327
01:33:42.960 --> 01:33:46.960
I'll tell you, because yeah,
the whole, the whole if you
1328
01:33:47.000 --> 01:33:51.760
read the actual like administrative procedures that
Naval special warfare tech. And I'm not
1329
01:33:51.800 --> 01:33:58.520
even talking about Slovinsky and Slevinsky's testimony
because yeah, because his testimony about Chapman
1330
01:33:58.680 --> 01:34:04.760
changed, uh from you know,
Chapman was this to Chapman was. But
1331
01:34:05.640 --> 01:34:13.760
when the Air Force relooked, looked
at Chapman's award and went for the upgrade.
1332
01:34:15.119 --> 01:34:18.000
The fact that the Navy and Naval
Navy special warfare and I don't and
1333
01:34:18.039 --> 01:34:24.720
this isn't Slovinsky, this is above
him. But the fact that they I
1334
01:34:24.840 --> 01:34:28.239
you could you probably know more than
I do. But the fact that the
1335
01:34:28.399 --> 01:34:34.840
Navy initially blocked they tried to block
Chapman's upgrade after the facts came out of
1336
01:34:34.880 --> 01:34:40.680
what he actually went through, they
tried, who tries to block the upgrade
1337
01:34:41.039 --> 01:34:45.760
of somebody's award a different service,
And then they said, we will give
1338
01:34:45.760 --> 01:34:50.439
it to you if Slovinsky also gets
it to me. That was like,
1339
01:34:50.600 --> 01:34:56.479
that discredits the entire Naval Special Warfare
community. And there are a lot of
1340
01:34:56.479 --> 01:35:00.840
good operators in the Naval Special Warfare
community, but it's it's a blight.
1341
01:35:02.319 --> 01:35:06.079
Yeah, And that's what And you're
one hundred percent correct. Everything you just
1342
01:35:06.079 --> 01:35:11.760
said is exactly spot on, exactly
what happened. And that's why I'm on
1343
01:35:11.880 --> 01:35:15.359
here saying, hey, there's a
bunch of us in our seal community that
1344
01:35:15.359 --> 01:35:18.359
have been fighting these guys. I
filed my IG complaint back in two thousand
1345
01:35:18.399 --> 01:35:24.680
and eight, you know, calling
out this turn back. Then guys down
1346
01:35:24.680 --> 01:35:28.319
at Damn Neck should have held him
accountable. He should have gotten shit canned
1347
01:35:28.399 --> 01:35:31.319
right after that off. And then
because he was able to stay in,
1348
01:35:31.680 --> 01:35:36.840
then he messes up NSW even more
because he tries to stop a Chapman award
1349
01:35:38.079 --> 01:35:41.680
because it's going to expose him for
a shitty leader that he was. And
1350
01:35:41.760 --> 01:35:46.880
so instead of us holding our guys
accountable, and I'm just like, this
1351
01:35:46.960 --> 01:35:50.920
is this is like a warning order
to you know, all active duty seals.
1352
01:35:51.000 --> 01:35:55.520
Don't be a fucking turn. Don't
do these things like Chapman and Jocko,
1353
01:35:55.880 --> 01:35:58.880
because it's going to come out.
The truth is always going to come
1354
01:35:58.880 --> 01:36:01.159
out eventually, and if you're going
to do these things, you're going to
1355
01:36:01.199 --> 01:36:08.239
get exposed. And and I hope
these guys, you know, they look
1356
01:36:08.279 --> 01:36:11.800
at I feel sorry for him.
Yeah, I feel sorry for Marcus,
1357
01:36:12.159 --> 01:36:15.439
I feel sorry. I feel sorry
for Jocko. I feel sorry for Tim
1358
01:36:15.520 --> 01:36:23.640
Samans. To be that's shallow and
put your personal prestige or money above your
1359
01:36:23.680 --> 01:36:28.840
teammates is as low as you can
possibly go. And they got to look
1360
01:36:28.840 --> 01:36:32.079
at themselves in the mirror and they
can't be happy what they see. They
1361
01:36:32.119 --> 01:36:36.640
can't because you just do you think
though, because I don't. I don't
1362
01:36:36.640 --> 01:36:40.560
watch Shako, I don't know jock. I don't know anything about Jocko other
1363
01:36:40.600 --> 01:36:44.760
than what people say. I do
know that there are people who say that
1364
01:36:45.279 --> 01:36:48.720
you know who he is now has
like changed their lives helped them out things
1365
01:36:48.760 --> 01:36:58.039
like that. Do you think that
there's a redemption arc for for people regardless
1366
01:36:58.399 --> 01:37:04.840
of mistakes that they have made during
service or or whether it's mistakes or shitty
1367
01:37:04.840 --> 01:37:10.000
behavior like I don't know, but
do you think that there's a redemption arc
1368
01:37:10.119 --> 01:37:15.279
for people? Of course, if
you make a mistake, you know,
1369
01:37:15.319 --> 01:37:17.279
as far as trying to keep it
in house, mistakes are made, guys
1370
01:37:17.399 --> 01:37:20.520
learn from it and they move on
and they don't do the same thing over.
1371
01:37:20.960 --> 01:37:27.600
My problem with like Jocko and like
Tim Semanski is that after the fact,
1372
01:37:28.119 --> 01:37:30.640
you know, it got exposed,
they've been you know, they've been
1373
01:37:30.720 --> 01:37:34.479
lying for years to the public of
what actually happened. As far as so
1374
01:37:35.119 --> 01:37:42.000
like Chris Kyle. Chris Kyle worked
directly under Jocko. He said he shot
1375
01:37:42.079 --> 01:37:45.119
Juba, he said that he killed
guys, you know, looters and the
1376
01:37:45.560 --> 01:37:48.880
under you know, the the dome
in Louisiana said he you know, he's
1377
01:37:49.000 --> 01:37:53.800
You've got all these false claims that
have been found out to be Well,
1378
01:37:53.840 --> 01:37:57.479
you don't have Chris Kyle without Jocko. You don't have Jocko without Chris Kyle.
1379
01:37:57.920 --> 01:38:01.800
So when when Chris Kyle says he's
not making a name for himself.
1380
01:38:01.880 --> 01:38:04.640
He's got a book out there,
so he has to basically say yeah,
1381
01:38:04.680 --> 01:38:09.239
and he's on a book speaking things, says yeah, I knocked out Jesse
1382
01:38:09.359 --> 01:38:13.319
Ventura and just like total bullshit,
you know, he said, yeah,
1383
01:38:13.399 --> 01:38:16.479
he did these things. So now
Jesse Venture is like a way And because
1384
01:38:16.560 --> 01:38:21.600
Jesse Ventura was one of the most
well recognized, well respected seals and you
1385
01:38:21.600 --> 01:38:27.960
know as far as congressman in Minnesota
doing great things, represented us well,
1386
01:38:28.359 --> 01:38:30.840
and so Chris Kyle hits him saying
I knocked him out and makes tries to
1387
01:38:30.880 --> 01:38:34.159
make a name for himself. It's
just it's embarrassing. The same thing with
1388
01:38:34.279 --> 01:38:40.119
Jocko and Tim Semanski against you know, Dwayne Peter. Dwayne Peter is the
1389
01:38:40.319 --> 01:38:44.720
quiet professional that they wish they could
be right, and so they have they
1390
01:38:44.720 --> 01:38:47.159
have to attack guys like that to
try to make a name for themselves.
1391
01:38:47.600 --> 01:38:51.960
And Jesse had to basically defend himself
in court. I think he had the
1392
01:38:53.039 --> 01:38:56.439
other team guys piling on saying,
oh, you're you know, because Chris
1393
01:38:56.520 --> 01:39:01.279
Kyle gets killed by a marine and
I karma, you know, I very
1394
01:39:01.399 --> 01:39:05.359
sad. Yeah, I mean it's
very sad. Regardless you know, very
1395
01:39:05.399 --> 01:39:09.760
sad and just like the situation.
But Jesse, you know, as far
1396
01:39:09.800 --> 01:39:14.239
as he's got to clear his name, he's already in court and it's and
1397
01:39:14.439 --> 01:39:20.359
it's really him fighting against the media
corporation that basically sold American Sniper, which
1398
01:39:20.520 --> 01:39:25.600
we all find out that story is
all bullshit. So the media is trying
1399
01:39:25.640 --> 01:39:30.159
to protect Chris Kyle even though he's
dead, because it's going to tarnish their
1400
01:39:30.199 --> 01:39:33.479
book and their name and the movie
and all that other type, you know,
1401
01:39:33.560 --> 01:39:36.800
And Jesse's just trying to clear his
name. He's not going after the
1402
01:39:36.840 --> 01:39:41.720
widow. He's going after the people
that basically that supported Chris Kyle to do
1403
01:39:41.760 --> 01:39:44.600
this in the first place. That
that kind of gets back to yours,
1404
01:39:44.640 --> 01:39:47.399
Jack as far as the people,
like with Marcus Latrell, Marcus Latrell fails
1405
01:39:47.439 --> 01:39:51.239
and does some bad things on the
battlefield and you know could have recovered from
1406
01:39:51.279 --> 01:39:54.319
it, just like, hey,
this is what I did wrong. But
1407
01:39:55.279 --> 01:39:58.000
he gets it, he gets the
option. He's like it's like, hey,
1408
01:39:58.560 --> 01:40:00.880
it's over three million dollars if you
sign off on this book that was
1409
01:40:00.880 --> 01:40:04.159
written for you. He didn't write
it, and he just like, do
1410
01:40:04.199 --> 01:40:09.000
you want to be known as the
guy who ran away and left his buddies
1411
01:40:09.119 --> 01:40:11.239
or do you want to be known
as a loan survivor? That you know,
1412
01:40:11.279 --> 01:40:17.079
basically the story and you know,
presents a look that makes NSW look
1413
01:40:17.159 --> 01:40:21.800
better, and so he chooses to
do that. So he has to sit
1414
01:40:21.840 --> 01:40:25.920
there, go to these speaking engagements, he has to lie, lie,
1415
01:40:26.000 --> 01:40:34.119
lie, lie, and he got
some bad you know, senior leaders within
1416
01:40:34.239 --> 01:40:39.560
NSW basically pushed him to do this
and to write that book, and that's
1417
01:40:39.600 --> 01:40:45.399
where the story really needs to go. All these investigative reporters, there's a
1418
01:40:45.520 --> 01:40:50.880
target rich environment in the sealed community
to expose all this stuff. And the
1419
01:40:50.920 --> 01:40:57.199
only reason I wanted exposed is because
so it doesn't happen again and it cleans
1420
01:40:57.279 --> 01:41:01.640
us up. The reason why guys
are talking to Matt Cole Alpha, you
1421
01:41:01.680 --> 01:41:06.159
know, with the you know,
all these books that are out there,
1422
01:41:06.920 --> 01:41:12.720
Dave Phillips, the reason why all
these guys are talking to those guys is
1423
01:41:12.760 --> 01:41:15.319
because they've been trying to do it
internal for a long period of time and
1424
01:41:15.359 --> 01:41:21.319
they're getting no results and the corruption
keeps going and so the only way to
1425
01:41:21.399 --> 01:41:26.439
clean it, unfortunately, is for
us to go outside of it. And
1426
01:41:26.600 --> 01:41:29.159
so that's why I'm talking with you
guys tonight. And that's why I've been
1427
01:41:29.199 --> 01:41:33.800
on the Green Green Beret Chronicles and
anti hero podcasts and and I've been offered
1428
01:41:33.840 --> 01:41:38.359
to go on not on the jockos, and if you wanted to come on
1429
01:41:38.399 --> 01:41:41.159
to yours and you know, and
talk to me on yours, that'd be
1430
01:41:41.159 --> 01:41:44.840
great. So I'm not shying with
but I'm not going to go on to
1431
01:41:45.079 --> 01:41:46.479
I'm not going to go on to
theirs, you know, on these other
1432
01:41:46.560 --> 01:41:50.119
ones that are out there. And
there's a lot of guys that found religion
1433
01:41:50.199 --> 01:41:56.840
all of a sudden there and painting
a picture like I'm redeemed and you know,
1434
01:41:56.880 --> 01:41:58.680
and all this stuff. It's like, well, how many team guys
1435
01:41:58.680 --> 01:42:01.439
you do you fuck up the first
place? You know, you know now
1436
01:42:01.479 --> 01:42:04.520
that you've come out that I was
a drug dealer and you know all this
1437
01:42:04.600 --> 01:42:08.800
other things that kind of are things
that you did, you know, while
1438
01:42:08.800 --> 01:42:11.560
you're active, but now you found
Jesus all of a sudden, which,
1439
01:42:11.800 --> 01:42:16.319
hey, I'm a I'm a religious
guy. I'm not. I don't go
1440
01:42:16.359 --> 01:42:20.560
to church. I just lived by
a moral compass that my grandfather taught me.
1441
01:42:21.119 --> 01:42:26.199
And you know, and I say
grandfather, but Buck Buck Buckle's who
1442
01:42:26.239 --> 01:42:30.079
I told you guys about made me
who I am stand up for what's right.
1443
01:42:30.239 --> 01:42:33.800
And I was only encouraged more and
more by the CCD instructors and you
1444
01:42:33.800 --> 01:42:38.560
know Dwayne Dieter himself to do stand
up and you know, have a purpose
1445
01:42:38.600 --> 01:42:45.399
behind your fight. You had mentioned
earlier about like if we say that ninety
1446
01:42:45.479 --> 01:42:50.279
five ninety nine percent of the Sealed
community are just solid stand up dudes.
1447
01:42:51.000 --> 01:43:00.319
But you were talking earlier about this
culture, this small subset, but the
1448
01:43:00.399 --> 01:43:04.760
culture of sort of not necessarily blackmail, but I've got dirt on you,
1449
01:43:04.760 --> 01:43:11.159
You've got dirt on me type of
thing that happens amongst these individuals. Can
1450
01:43:11.159 --> 01:43:15.920
you tell us about that? Yeah, So, so when we got into
1451
01:43:16.000 --> 01:43:18.760
the ASoP world, well, first
thing, damn neck. It kind of
1452
01:43:18.840 --> 01:43:24.119
started down at damn neck with Tim
Semanski and you know who he basically kept
1453
01:43:24.119 --> 01:43:28.760
promoting down there. So it's like
Andy Stump says on one of his podcasts
1454
01:43:28.840 --> 01:43:31.079
that he didn't see any of this
corruption and he didn't see anything negative or
1455
01:43:31.119 --> 01:43:34.720
whatever. But the one thing he
said that he's where he saw corruption was
1456
01:43:35.000 --> 01:43:41.920
the advancement in the awards. So
if you control who gets the awards,
1457
01:43:42.239 --> 01:43:45.279
and you control who advances. As
far as who do you think, are
1458
01:43:45.319 --> 01:43:49.199
you going to put it if you're
an if you're Tim Semanski or a Jocko,
1459
01:43:49.600 --> 01:43:53.680
are you going to put it?
Are you going to advance somebody who's
1460
01:43:53.680 --> 01:43:57.439
got an ethical moral compass? No, you're going to promote somebody who's a
1461
01:43:57.560 --> 01:44:00.960
urd that's like you, that's not
going to basically say anything or that you
1462
01:44:00.000 --> 01:44:03.920
know you can control. So with
the Aesop world, this stuff as far
1463
01:44:03.920 --> 01:44:09.840
as you learn how to get leverage
over people. For the viewers who don't
1464
01:44:09.880 --> 01:44:15.119
know ASOT Advanced Special Operations and Tactics
is teaching special ops guys how to do
1465
01:44:15.159 --> 01:44:21.399
source handling and skills that are more
associated with the CIA. Yeah, yeah,
1466
01:44:21.439 --> 01:44:26.319
but you learn how to basically get
guys that do what you need them
1467
01:44:26.319 --> 01:44:30.159
to do, whether they do it
because you motivate them, or you do
1468
01:44:30.199 --> 01:44:33.479
it because you got leverage over them
in some sort and so it's it's you
1469
01:44:33.520 --> 01:44:36.319
know, it could be we're all
in the same fight together, we're all
1470
01:44:36.319 --> 01:44:40.439
fighting the same cause, great stuff, or it could be it could be
1471
01:44:40.520 --> 01:44:43.760
like, hey, I'm gonna tell
everybody. So just like with the Melgar
1472
01:44:43.880 --> 01:44:47.680
situation, what they were gonna do
to him was fucking disgusting and and it
1473
01:44:47.920 --> 01:44:55.840
just like and I can't imagine anybody
ever doing that to somebody and those anyway,
1474
01:44:56.439 --> 01:45:00.119
it bothers me that those guys did
something like that and they thought they
1475
01:45:00.159 --> 01:45:04.119
could get away. That's irruption.
Yeah, yeah, so that's so they
1476
01:45:04.199 --> 01:45:11.159
use these asot type you know,
technical you know, skill sets and try
1477
01:45:11.239 --> 01:45:15.359
to manipulate and try to get leverage
over people. And so a lot of
1478
01:45:15.359 --> 01:45:18.520
guys don't want to lose their trident. They don't want to get kicked out
1479
01:45:18.520 --> 01:45:25.359
of the teams. So if you
do something you know bad, you're you're
1480
01:45:25.439 --> 01:45:28.800
glad to get a lifeline and you're
gonna do whatever that person kind of needs
1481
01:45:28.800 --> 01:45:34.279
for you. The problem is that
the lifelines that they send you know that
1482
01:45:34.319 --> 01:45:38.359
they'll give something. Let's say you
got a young guy that gets a DUI
1483
01:45:39.279 --> 01:45:43.560
and he's definitely could learn from his
mistake and kind of move on from it.
1484
01:45:44.039 --> 01:45:47.199
But if they didn't think that they
could control you as far as they
1485
01:45:47.239 --> 01:45:50.039
thought that you you're at the your
moral compass, like I'm sorry, you
1486
01:45:50.079 --> 01:45:55.960
got to go shit can sorry you
made a mistake. But if we got
1487
01:45:56.039 --> 01:45:59.439
master chiefs over at damn neck that's
got like four or five d UoS.
1488
01:46:00.119 --> 01:46:03.439
So how many times do you get
a g UI before you realize that,
1489
01:46:03.720 --> 01:46:10.000
hey, you're you're just making a
mistake after mistake after mistake. And you
1490
01:46:10.000 --> 01:46:15.479
know, when it comes to tactical
decisions, you know, bad things happen,
1491
01:46:15.880 --> 01:46:18.760
like extortion seventeen. Yeah. So
as far as the same guys that
1492
01:46:18.840 --> 01:46:25.800
basically make these are the problems for
the command that some people save end up
1493
01:46:25.840 --> 01:46:33.399
causing huge problems like extortion seventeen Red
wings, yeah, Ridge Melgar, So
1494
01:46:33.840 --> 01:46:36.920
I hear you say in a couple
of things, One like guys like Stump
1495
01:46:38.119 --> 01:46:40.640
wouldn't have seen it because they weren't
in the Bad Boys Club, Like they
1496
01:46:40.680 --> 01:46:45.800
were kept out of that sort of
loop where they would see the effects of
1497
01:46:45.840 --> 01:46:49.640
it in the awards or whatever and
the promotions. But but they wouldn't necessarily,
1498
01:46:51.319 --> 01:46:55.359
Yeah, I can't say that he
didn't see it, Okay, And
1499
01:46:55.600 --> 01:46:59.039
I don't know how I can't.
I don't know how he would have missed
1500
01:46:59.079 --> 01:47:04.319
it, and so honestly, I
can't say. And then we have other
1501
01:47:04.399 --> 01:47:11.279
situations like your sources have team where
these these you know, confident like like
1502
01:47:11.800 --> 01:47:15.159
you know, heroes end up dying
because of a poor leadership decision, and
1503
01:47:15.199 --> 01:47:21.000
then that leadership doesn't get punished for
it. They get promoted exactly so they
1504
01:47:21.600 --> 01:47:26.920
to hide their mistakes. The guys
that were you know, that are there
1505
01:47:27.520 --> 01:47:31.920
that might basically tell on them,
They give them high awards with these and
1506
01:47:32.039 --> 01:47:35.399
basically just like, yeah, there's
a bad mistake, we learned from it,
1507
01:47:35.439 --> 01:47:41.920
and you know, they covered up
with awards. So our biggest mess
1508
01:47:42.000 --> 01:47:45.680
ups, our biggest failures, have
got some of our highest awards Congressional Medal
1509
01:47:45.680 --> 01:47:50.479
of Honor for for somebody. Come
on, I mean, it's it's ridiculous.
1510
01:47:51.000 --> 01:47:55.960
Do you imagine if if it's at
that level, can you imagine all
1511
01:47:55.960 --> 01:47:59.680
the smaller you know, bronze stars
with these that are out there. And
1512
01:47:59.720 --> 01:48:03.560
that's there's another target rich environment for
the investigative reporters to figure out. This's
1513
01:48:03.560 --> 01:48:08.119
like, well, how many awards
did Naval Special War forget? Because if
1514
01:48:08.159 --> 01:48:12.880
you got it, you wanted to
earn it and you basically and I think
1515
01:48:12.920 --> 01:48:16.760
you should fucking wear it proudly.
But if you didn't, you know,
1516
01:48:17.119 --> 01:48:20.399
it's it's something and you did it, just keep your mouth shut. There's
1517
01:48:20.439 --> 01:48:26.279
something that needs to be you know, because that situation ends up to other
1518
01:48:26.319 --> 01:48:30.079
guys not you know, same things
happened to him. Red wings turns into
1519
01:48:30.119 --> 01:48:35.239
extortion seventeen. Right, So what
is like? First off, I think
1520
01:48:35.279 --> 01:48:40.640
you're very bright because I don't know, like I never saw any of this
1521
01:48:40.800 --> 01:48:43.239
stuff when I was in the radio
of Itttalion or when I was deployed or
1522
01:48:43.279 --> 01:48:46.720
stuff like that, Like I never
saw Had I seen it, I don't
1523
01:48:46.800 --> 01:48:50.159
know if I would have. I
don't know. If it's the moral fortitude,
1524
01:48:50.239 --> 01:48:55.159
I don't know. Uh, I
don't know if I would be like,
1525
01:48:55.199 --> 01:49:00.800
well, shit went down, stuff
happened, and I'm going to cross
1526
01:49:00.800 --> 01:49:03.000
that. You know, in the
cops it's the thin blue line, Like
1527
01:49:03.119 --> 01:49:10.600
I'm going to cross that because there
is, because you don't want to,
1528
01:49:13.039 --> 01:49:15.439
at least for me. I'll say, like, it's tough to throw the
1529
01:49:15.640 --> 01:49:21.000
entire brotherhood to the wolves when you
know it was just a few people.
1530
01:49:21.880 --> 01:49:29.960
And what's an operator who's still on
the job, you know, who's still
1531
01:49:30.119 --> 01:49:33.680
doing it supposed to do when they
want to keep operating, but they know
1532
01:49:33.880 --> 01:49:39.520
that if they do come forward that
it'll probably be the end of their career.
1533
01:49:41.600 --> 01:49:45.800
Yeah, so I think it could
be you know, in two thousand
1534
01:49:45.840 --> 01:49:48.960
and eight. You know, I
did my IG complaint, right, but
1535
01:49:49.359 --> 01:49:55.479
I didn't retire to twenty sixteen.
I'd made multiple deployments after that. So
1536
01:49:56.239 --> 01:50:00.880
I got for me getting the truth
out there, knowing where you stand right
1537
01:50:01.000 --> 01:50:08.399
basically encourages other people basically to do
the right thing and illegal by the way.
1538
01:50:09.840 --> 01:50:14.039
Yeah, just like, here's another
thing, and how did I get
1539
01:50:14.119 --> 01:50:17.920
here because I never had a platform, and I don't have a platform.
1540
01:50:17.960 --> 01:50:21.640
I'm on your platform. But I
was watching somebody told me and say,
1541
01:50:21.680 --> 01:50:26.640
hey, this guy Matt Kugler who
basically did a thing on Joe Price.
1542
01:50:26.800 --> 01:50:31.920
Joe Price was myttashing the commander before
he became the Seal team for commander.
1543
01:50:32.159 --> 01:50:35.680
You know, he did XO and
didn't commander there. So I know Joe
1544
01:50:35.720 --> 01:50:40.840
Price personally. I worked for him
directly. And there's no way. When
1545
01:50:40.880 --> 01:50:44.239
I was told, you know,
in Afghanistan, Dad he killed himself.
1546
01:50:44.279 --> 01:50:47.119
I'm just like that is there's no
way Joe Price will ever commit suicide.
1547
01:50:47.520 --> 01:50:50.399
It doesn't make any sense. This
is all bullshit. What's the real story
1548
01:50:50.439 --> 01:50:54.039
here? Knowing that, you know, there's a little bit of you know,
1549
01:50:54.119 --> 01:50:59.199
some guys in our community, and
then I would listen to Matt Kugler's
1550
01:51:00.039 --> 01:51:03.000
you know podcasts that he did on. I don't know if he's bringing Green
1551
01:51:03.039 --> 01:51:08.960
Beret Chronicles or Anti herod whatever one
it was on. I watched it and
1552
01:51:09.000 --> 01:51:11.520
I was just like, I fucking
knew it, and this is this is
1553
01:51:11.560 --> 01:51:17.760
a civilian who is just his high
school buddy, who is basically the parents
1554
01:51:17.880 --> 01:51:21.479
know that Job didn't kill himself and
they're trying to get the real story.
1555
01:51:21.920 --> 01:51:27.920
Matt Kubler just happens to be a
marshall who investigated suicides and knew a lot
1556
01:51:27.960 --> 01:51:30.560
about it. Just happened to be
Joe Price's high school buddy and job.
1557
01:51:31.039 --> 01:51:35.399
So he goes to the investigation and
shows how there's no way Joe Price could
1558
01:51:35.399 --> 01:51:39.119
have killed himself. And I'm just
like, I fucking knew it. And
1559
01:51:39.159 --> 01:51:42.399
here's a civilian that's basically, you
know, calling it out. He's got
1560
01:51:42.600 --> 01:51:45.960
more mental fortitude than a lot of
the team guys that basically I was just
1561
01:51:46.000 --> 01:51:49.880
like, how can I stand by
and not? Basically and I said,
1562
01:51:49.880 --> 01:51:54.279
hey, really appreciate what you're doing. Matt. I think you hit the
1563
01:51:54.520 --> 01:51:57.239
you know, the nail on the
head there and goes, well, he
1564
01:51:57.279 --> 01:51:59.840
goes, if you want to do
a podcast and you know, expose any
1565
01:52:00.039 --> 01:52:01.520
stuff it goes. I just happened
to know the anti hero, you know,
1566
01:52:02.399 --> 01:52:05.880
you know Tyler and Brent, and
then you know, then Jay later
1567
01:52:05.960 --> 01:52:10.159
on, and Jay's been you know, they've all been great. Jay's been
1568
01:52:10.199 --> 01:52:15.000
phenomenal. And so that's how the
ball got rolling. And it's not that
1569
01:52:15.039 --> 01:52:17.920
I'm that I'm happy I'm doing it, not that I'm you know, it's
1570
01:52:18.279 --> 01:52:23.720
as soon as I can go back
into you know, going away into the
1571
01:52:23.760 --> 01:52:27.760
sideline. That's why I'm not going
to do my own stuff. I'm not
1572
01:52:27.800 --> 01:52:31.359
trying to brand myself. I'm not
trying to do anything other than exposed to
1573
01:52:31.479 --> 01:52:35.720
America that we got some turns.
Don't put them in the leadership positions.
1574
01:52:35.760 --> 01:52:42.560
Don't follow them, you know,
for these reasons, and be be aware
1575
01:52:43.319 --> 01:52:45.159
that. You know, like when
Jocko does a podcast, he sits there
1576
01:52:45.159 --> 01:52:48.359
and reads from a script. When
he did the one rebuttal against me,
1577
01:52:48.680 --> 01:52:54.439
like four thirty four zero point five
or whatever, him and the other guy
1578
01:52:54.439 --> 01:52:56.720
are sitting there, they're flipping the
pages at the same time, reading the
1579
01:52:56.760 --> 01:53:00.159
same script, and they don't even
address you know, they don't Jocko didn't
1580
01:53:00.159 --> 01:53:05.239
address that. He warned his guys
that the Seal Team sixth operator came in
1581
01:53:05.279 --> 01:53:10.399
there before Mark Lee got killed.
Before Mark Lee got killed, he said,
1582
01:53:10.399 --> 01:53:13.239
hey, don't do this stupid shit. Then Mark Lee gets killed,
1583
01:53:13.600 --> 01:53:15.640
and then he says, guy goes
in there and says, say you should
1584
01:53:15.640 --> 01:53:18.439
be fucking court martialed, and shit
can he says, fuck it, I'm
1585
01:53:18.479 --> 01:53:23.600
taking the TV and me he doesn't. He has he got no empathy for
1586
01:53:23.640 --> 01:53:27.319
his guys. He didn't give a
shit about his guys. And and and
1587
01:53:27.399 --> 01:53:30.399
so for people to put him up
on a pedestal and think that this is
1588
01:53:30.840 --> 01:53:33.800
a leader that we should follow or
get behind, I bet you if you
1589
01:53:33.840 --> 01:53:38.600
know an investigative reporter, and this
is my you know, because I don't
1590
01:53:38.640 --> 01:53:41.760
know anybody how to do it.
If you look at if you could figure
1591
01:53:41.760 --> 01:53:45.199
out if his books are plagiarized,
I bet you they're all plagiarized. I
1592
01:53:45.239 --> 01:53:48.319
bet you would be. I don't
know that for sure, but my opinion
1593
01:53:48.399 --> 01:53:51.920
is because he's not a good leader. He was never a good leader.
1594
01:53:53.039 --> 01:53:57.079
He's never been a good business operator. You know, he teams up with
1595
01:53:57.119 --> 01:54:00.840
a drug dealer, you know,
to open up his gym. He starts,
1596
01:54:00.239 --> 01:54:03.520
you know, echelon front trying to
teach businessman how to run a business.
1597
01:54:03.520 --> 01:54:06.960
He's never run a business. All
he does the only thing that he's
1598
01:54:08.039 --> 01:54:13.520
done is being able to scam the
public on his persona. And he's got
1599
01:54:13.520 --> 01:54:15.920
a great voice, talks like Batman, you know, blah blah blah.
1600
01:54:16.079 --> 01:54:23.439
He's a big meat head. And
so anyway, Eric, I I would
1601
01:54:23.520 --> 01:54:29.119
like to get into the death of
Melgar because I feel like you know,
1602
01:54:29.600 --> 01:54:32.760
like you I suppose I've been telling
people about some of this stuff for like
1603
01:54:32.840 --> 01:54:36.479
ten years, and I'll tell you, ten years ago, people looked at
1604
01:54:36.479 --> 01:54:41.439
me like I had a dick growing
out of my forehead when I talked about
1605
01:54:41.439 --> 01:54:45.880
this. They're like, you are
crazy, Like you are just batshit delusional.
1606
01:54:46.800 --> 01:54:50.439
Here we are a decade later,
and a lot of stuff has come
1607
01:54:50.479 --> 01:54:56.560
out, and I think people are
much more primed. They're much more open
1608
01:54:56.640 --> 01:55:00.439
to understanding that, yeah, we
have a problem. And even the Chief
1609
01:55:00.439 --> 01:55:03.800
of Naval Special Warfare I think said
in a memo, we have a problem.
1610
01:55:04.279 --> 01:55:08.840
We've at least gotten to that point
and Melgar. I mean, one
1611
01:55:08.880 --> 01:55:13.399
of one of the frustrations I encountered
in the veteran community was that a lot
1612
01:55:13.439 --> 01:55:15.840
of people when I would bring up
some of the war crimes. You know,
1613
01:55:16.079 --> 01:55:18.760
it's this sort of like racist attitude
of like, well fuck them,
1614
01:55:18.760 --> 01:55:24.359
they're Muslims, they're brown people,
whatever, which is pretty angering. But
1615
01:55:24.439 --> 01:55:29.439
then okay, we start tracing the
ethical and moral lapses, and that goes
1616
01:55:29.479 --> 01:55:32.119
on and on and on, and
that gets us to the point where we
1617
01:55:32.159 --> 01:55:38.399
as Special Operators are murdering one of
our own, which is Melgar and Molly.
1618
01:55:39.520 --> 01:55:42.520
And I don't know. I mean, if that's something you're going to
1619
01:55:42.560 --> 01:55:45.760
defend, you are just a despicable, reprehensible person. I mean, I
1620
01:55:45.800 --> 01:55:50.079
don't even know what to say to
that. So I would like to hear
1621
01:55:50.319 --> 01:55:55.199
your you know, what you know
about Melgar's death and what happened there.
1622
01:55:57.239 --> 01:56:00.000
Unfortunately, I don't know much about
that one. So that was, you
1623
01:56:00.000 --> 01:56:03.199
know, some guys down to dan
Neck and so I'll tell you if I
1624
01:56:03.239 --> 01:56:09.039
know more information, but other than
they were found guilty and that they,
1625
01:56:09.319 --> 01:56:13.800
you know, did something they shouldn't
have done. And anyway, I wish
1626
01:56:13.880 --> 01:56:16.920
I had more information, but I
am as equally disgusted by it, especially
1627
01:56:16.960 --> 01:56:20.960
finding out what they intended to do
to him before they actually you know,
1628
01:56:21.000 --> 01:56:25.319
they killed him, you know,
accidentally or what ho or whatever you want
1629
01:56:25.319 --> 01:56:30.520
to say it, that's not a
fucking hazing when you just when you what
1630
01:56:30.520 --> 01:56:34.000
what what I've what I've read,
and I also don't have like like inside
1631
01:56:34.039 --> 01:56:40.319
information per se, but what I've
read about it is that Melgar became aware
1632
01:56:40.800 --> 01:56:44.760
that they some of the other guys
were using the op fund to pay sources,
1633
01:56:44.760 --> 01:56:47.720
they were embezzling some of that money, and he was not happy with
1634
01:56:47.760 --> 01:56:53.039
it. And these other guys concocted
this scenario where they're going to you know,
1635
01:56:53.279 --> 01:56:59.239
essentially sexually assault him in his barracks
room and uh and in the process
1636
01:56:59.319 --> 01:57:02.079
of of them taking him up and
choking holding it down, Yeah, they
1637
01:57:02.119 --> 01:57:08.840
choked him and they killed and expired
on accident. Yeah, and that's you
1638
01:57:08.840 --> 01:57:12.279
know, doing the rear naked choke
as far as inappropriately not doing because this
1639
01:57:12.359 --> 01:57:17.560
guy was a mixed martial arts guy
that you know anyway, when you're in
1640
01:57:17.600 --> 01:57:20.239
that type of a fight for your
life, you fight for you. If
1641
01:57:20.359 --> 01:57:24.600
you know that's gonna happen to you, you're gonna fight so fucking hard to
1642
01:57:24.600 --> 01:57:28.840
make sure that doesn't happen to you. So Melgar fought fucking valiantly as long
1643
01:57:28.880 --> 01:57:31.800
as he could. But there was
it was two seals and multiple Marines that
1644
01:57:31.840 --> 01:57:35.800
were basically you know that was in
that situation, and that what's bad about
1645
01:57:35.800 --> 01:57:41.600
it is that those Marines were probably
honorable guys thinking that, ok, you
1646
01:57:41.680 --> 01:57:44.680
know, I didn't know to the
extreme that they were going to take this
1647
01:57:44.760 --> 01:57:49.399
too or I hope. Yeah.
Yeah, they were just like maybe you
1648
01:57:49.439 --> 01:57:56.039
know, a these are seals,
and you know, thinking that they're we
1649
01:57:56.039 --> 01:57:59.079
we do we do haze each other
quite a bit. Yeah, but they're
1650
01:57:59.159 --> 01:58:06.239
but they're all limits and crossed some
big ones. Yeah. Yeah, anything
1651
01:58:06.319 --> 01:58:11.560
penetrating is that I was gonna say
the same thing. Paint, our markers
1652
01:58:11.840 --> 01:58:16.079
and tape are fine. Uh,
but penetration of any time, yeah,
1653
01:58:16.159 --> 01:58:23.880
it's probably probably we'll just say it's
not only a step too far, that's
1654
01:58:23.920 --> 01:58:28.199
a way, it's yeah, it's
criminal. Yeah yeah, and I would
1655
01:58:28.279 --> 01:58:32.560
kill somebody. Yeah, I would
fight that hard to make sure that didn't
1656
01:58:32.560 --> 01:58:39.199
happen. I'm sorry. So I'm
apologizing to you guys, because that should
1657
01:58:39.279 --> 01:58:43.640
never happen. These guys should have
you know, that stuff should have been
1658
01:58:43.640 --> 01:58:47.600
id. They should have never been
putting those positions, you know, uh,
1659
01:58:48.079 --> 01:58:53.880
to to where they had those funds
that they felt like they would basically
1660
01:58:53.960 --> 01:58:58.319
could take advantage of that situation.
They weren't mature enough to handle that responsibility
1661
01:58:58.560 --> 01:59:01.800
representing the United States and a foreign
country with you know, with US tax
1662
01:59:02.119 --> 01:59:06.119
payer dollars, thinking that they could
buy hookers and drugs and do whatever,
1663
01:59:06.359 --> 01:59:10.000
and then when they get exposed,
they're like, oh, ship, I'm
1664
01:59:10.000 --> 01:59:17.680
just gonna do something really extreme.
And there's a challenge in the special operations
1665
01:59:17.680 --> 01:59:21.560
community. And this isn't just seals, this is all special operations that we
1666
01:59:21.680 --> 01:59:29.000
all love, uh. And I'm
making a general statement here, but I
1667
01:59:29.000 --> 01:59:35.479
think that we all to some degree
embrace the hooligans and brigands type of mentality
1668
01:59:35.680 --> 01:59:45.960
and label. But there's also when
it's just outright theft and crime and fraud.
1669
01:59:45.239 --> 01:59:48.560
And you know, like huligan isn't
brigands. We mean it in a
1670
01:59:48.680 --> 01:59:55.239
very sort of I think, lighthearted
man. You know that the yes,
1671
01:59:56.359 --> 02:00:00.760
uh, the lines aren't always so
clear. Yes, But if it's for
1672
02:00:00.920 --> 02:00:05.560
personal enrichment, like everybody steals like
a one hundred mile and hour tape from
1673
02:00:05.600 --> 02:00:10.600
supply for their squad or for the
you know, for for their team.
1674
02:00:10.960 --> 02:00:14.119
If you mess something up on target, you may have been one hundred mile
1675
02:00:14.159 --> 02:00:16.399
an hour tape to a stretcher or
something like that. Right, But but
1676
02:00:16.560 --> 02:00:21.359
there there's this idea of being hooligans
and brigands but they're but but I think
1677
02:00:21.399 --> 02:00:30.319
that it is when it's for when
it's not like like morally reprehensible and it's
1678
02:00:30.359 --> 02:00:33.920
for the team. But the idea
when it's for personal enrichment is when that
1679
02:00:34.079 --> 02:00:40.600
idea uh goes too far. So
when you're taking ops funds, when you're
1680
02:00:40.600 --> 02:00:46.880
trying to like uh finagel contracts,
you know through you know, dubious means.
1681
02:00:46.960 --> 02:00:51.479
You know, when when you're stealing
ship from you know, from the
1682
02:00:51.520 --> 02:00:58.399
supply locker and selling on eBay,
that is not that is not The hooligans
1683
02:00:58.399 --> 02:01:08.239
and brigands mentality goes along with special
operations. Yeah, and and and again
1684
02:01:08.319 --> 02:01:13.279
it's like hazing. I think hazing
is an important part of sort of the
1685
02:01:13.359 --> 02:01:17.159
special operations legacy because it's sort of
like it's it's in a way or ride
1686
02:01:17.199 --> 02:01:21.000
a passage. It's also like it's
also like seeing if a guy can take
1687
02:01:21.359 --> 02:01:27.600
the stress and pressure of it and
still like and not because there's a lot
1688
02:01:27.600 --> 02:01:30.520
of stress and pressure on combat.
And if you can't take the stress and
1689
02:01:30.560 --> 02:01:33.159
pressure of hazing, can you trust
him in combat, which is also why
1690
02:01:33.199 --> 02:01:38.680
hazing really for a lot of units
sort of went away during the g WATT
1691
02:01:38.760 --> 02:01:43.159
because now it's like everybody's gonna be
in the stress and pressure of combat anyway.
1692
02:01:43.239 --> 02:01:46.199
So what's the point of taping them
to a tree and pulling down his
1693
02:01:46.279 --> 02:01:48.720
shorts? You know? Do we
want to take some picture? Yeah,
1694
02:01:48.920 --> 02:01:54.680
questions, We'll take pictures too,
But yeah, I bet ive got a
1695
02:01:54.680 --> 02:01:59.039
bunch of questions. I can only
imagine we covered a lot of time.
1696
02:01:59.079 --> 02:02:02.119
We've got to pull them up.
So so Eric with this, because I
1697
02:02:02.159 --> 02:02:05.359
know you've gotten a lot of criticism
about, you know, being a jocko
1698
02:02:05.439 --> 02:02:11.520
hater or being a seal hater,
or being this or being that. From
1699
02:02:11.560 --> 02:02:16.399
talking to you, it seems as
though you're you're just trying to bring light
1700
02:02:16.760 --> 02:02:25.800
to these situations for a small percentage. Yes, all that, I've got
1701
02:02:26.039 --> 02:02:29.680
a lot of hate meal within my
community, which I didn't as far as
1702
02:02:29.720 --> 02:02:31.840
a lot of guys are just like, thank god you're doing this and thank
1703
02:02:31.880 --> 02:02:34.800
god you're coming out. As far
as I know, it's embarrassing and it
1704
02:02:34.920 --> 02:02:41.520
kind of hurts us as this,
but everybody knows it already. It's already
1705
02:02:41.560 --> 02:02:45.560
out there. You guys all know
you know this is there's there's little information
1706
02:02:45.640 --> 02:02:48.600
that I've people fined for you,
but you everybody knows it, and so
1707
02:02:51.279 --> 02:02:55.720
we got to own it ourselves.
And this is us owning it. And
1708
02:02:55.760 --> 02:02:57.920
they're just like and a lot of
them, you know, they're in the
1709
02:02:57.920 --> 02:03:00.000
military contracting thing. They're just a
lot of them. Wish they could come
1710
02:03:00.039 --> 02:03:03.640
out and do exactly what I'm doing. I don't have to rely on anything,
1711
02:03:04.079 --> 02:03:09.439
you know, for my living from
NSW or military or anything else like
1712
02:03:09.479 --> 02:03:13.680
that. I'm living. I'm living
my best life and having a great time.
1713
02:03:14.399 --> 02:03:16.840
Eric. I'm happy I have to
do this, but I think it's
1714
02:03:16.880 --> 02:03:19.600
important to do it. And I
got to look at myself in the mirror
1715
02:03:19.840 --> 02:03:24.760
and all the good team guys,
well, you know the group of us
1716
02:03:24.800 --> 02:03:30.840
that we that are calling us the
true brotherhood or want this to come out
1717
02:03:30.880 --> 02:03:32.840
and we want to expose it.
That's why Code of a Country is so
1718
02:03:32.880 --> 02:03:38.560
successful. That's why alf all these
it's a cry for help. And if
1719
02:03:38.680 --> 02:03:43.000
NSW is not going to do it
themselves, then us prior frogmen and active
1720
02:03:43.039 --> 02:03:45.479
duty frogmen, we're going to go
to investigative reporters and get it cleaned up
1721
02:03:46.079 --> 02:03:51.000
and I encourage it to happen because
until that happens, we're not going to
1722
02:03:51.039 --> 02:03:54.920
be the Seal teams that we used
to be. And I want the Seal
1723
02:03:55.000 --> 02:03:59.880
teams to be the Seal teams that
used to be because we're solid, professional
1724
02:04:00.079 --> 02:04:05.079
Guy Anders, ninety percent of the
Seals are just great fucking dudes crushing it
1725
02:04:05.119 --> 02:04:09.840
out there, and we got a
ten percent that's just fucking destroying us.
1726
02:04:10.359 --> 02:04:13.439
So and unfortunately, there are a
lot of big leadership positions. Eric.
1727
02:04:13.800 --> 02:04:19.560
This question we got in kind of
speaks directly to this Christian asks, I
1728
02:04:19.560 --> 02:04:24.520
would like to know what your objectives
are by spreading this message. Is it
1729
02:04:24.600 --> 02:04:29.760
that you simply wan want to prevent
Jocko's book sales? Two, want to
1730
02:04:29.760 --> 02:04:32.960
state that Jocko's message is wrong?
Or three? Is it that Jocko is
1731
02:04:33.000 --> 02:04:36.640
simply the wrong messenger? And he
says, I'm not a Jocko fan in
1732
02:04:36.680 --> 02:04:41.760
the slightest, But Jocko did come
back with a twenty hour response. So
1733
02:04:42.039 --> 02:04:47.520
I just wanted Eric's thoughts. Yeah, so my I could care less,
1734
02:04:47.680 --> 02:04:50.960
you know about his books and what
he does and all that type stuff.
1735
02:04:51.560 --> 02:04:57.079
My thing is that I just wanted
to expose him for what he is because
1736
02:04:57.119 --> 02:04:59.800
when he does go off the rails
or he does do something here in a
1737
02:04:59.800 --> 02:05:03.079
few that's because it's his tendency.
He failed multiple different times. He's going
1738
02:05:03.159 --> 02:05:08.800
to do something. Once I come
out with this, I bet your there's
1739
02:05:08.840 --> 02:05:11.520
going to be like twenty people that
work for him are going to say,
1740
02:05:11.680 --> 02:05:15.199
well, guess what, Jocko did
this. Jocko did this. So it
1741
02:05:15.359 --> 02:05:17.840
just it's going to come out eventually. It's just that I'm you know,
1742
02:05:18.119 --> 02:05:21.000
getting in front of it and saying, hey, he doesn't represent the seal
1743
02:05:21.039 --> 02:05:27.720
community. He never represented the seal
community correctly. And just because you guys
1744
02:05:27.720 --> 02:05:31.000
got duped doesn't mean that you know, it happens to the best of us.
1745
02:05:31.319 --> 02:05:33.479
And if you just watch them,
you'll find out, like, holy
1746
02:05:33.520 --> 02:05:38.600
shit, Eric's Eric's kind of spot
on on this, you know, calling
1747
02:05:38.680 --> 02:05:43.399
him out the way I am.
I got another question here. This one
1748
02:05:43.479 --> 02:05:46.800
is actually a very in depth question
about Iran. Is that is that a
1749
02:05:46.840 --> 02:05:54.279
particular focus for you or something that
you're prepared to like speak to Iran.
1750
02:05:54.920 --> 02:05:59.039
Yeah, yeah, I wouldn't know
much to tell you truth. Okay,
1751
02:05:59.159 --> 02:06:04.840
then we we did a funny well
never mind, I won't get into it
1752
02:06:04.880 --> 02:06:11.760
on the boardings a funny story.
Come on, well, we accidentally took
1753
02:06:11.800 --> 02:06:15.039
down an Iranian ship one of those
operations and we had to get off of
1754
02:06:15.079 --> 02:06:19.720
it really quick, but I do
have the flag from it. Yeah.
1755
02:06:19.800 --> 02:06:23.760
No, I'm sorry m D who
asked this question. This is like a
1756
02:06:23.800 --> 02:06:28.479
super specific, in depth question about
Iran and I don't think Erik's prepared to
1757
02:06:28.800 --> 02:06:34.840
answer that what we got on the
YouTube. So M Corbyn, thank you
1758
02:06:34.960 --> 02:06:42.680
very much. Uh he says you're
a sexual Tyrannosaurus rex. Sir, thanks,
1759
02:06:43.560 --> 02:06:46.159
I'm not I'm not sure who that
was you. I think it's talking
1760
02:06:46.199 --> 02:06:50.439
to I think it's for D.
I'm not sure, but thanks, uh
1761
02:06:51.439 --> 02:06:59.239
yeah, thank you. Uh.
I mean I'm just imagining the small arms
1762
02:06:59.279 --> 02:07:00.920
trying to get it, you know
what the you know what the no,
1763
02:07:01.079 --> 02:07:04.960
seriously, paleontologists they think the little
ORMs. No one knows what they were
1764
02:07:05.000 --> 02:07:09.520
for. But there's a theory that
it was for mounting the female. Oh
1765
02:07:09.640 --> 02:07:13.760
just a hook on. There you
go, true story. Yeah, there
1766
02:07:13.800 --> 02:07:18.000
you go. Fun fact for you
out there here today. Anonymous, Thank
1767
02:07:18.000 --> 02:07:24.520
you? Oh uh, Anonymous,
thank you very much. What advice would
1768
02:07:24.520 --> 02:07:27.880
you give to women that want to
be Navy seals? A woman made it
1769
02:07:27.880 --> 02:07:38.560
today for a budget first phase this
year. But she quit. So I'm
1770
02:07:38.560 --> 02:07:43.039
a little conflicted because it does change
the dynamic of the guys around you when
1771
02:07:43.079 --> 02:07:47.199
you got a female around you.
So it so we had the female engagement
1772
02:07:47.239 --> 02:07:51.119
teams, which were you know they
did They crushed it on the battlefield,
1773
02:07:51.119 --> 02:07:55.479
they did great things and we had
solid operators. I just don't know if
1774
02:07:55.520 --> 02:07:57.920
they should be the same pipeline,
you know, as far as you know,
1775
02:07:57.960 --> 02:08:01.000
going along the side of the guys, I think they can make it,
1776
02:08:01.479 --> 02:08:03.479
you know, a women's side of
it, you know, equally as
1777
02:08:03.560 --> 02:08:09.960
challenging as demanding, but be all
around women. I'm kind of conflicted on
1778
02:08:09.000 --> 02:08:13.800
it because I think there's a huge
positive to having them along with you on
1779
02:08:13.880 --> 02:08:18.239
a lot of operations. And uh, but I don't know how the the
1780
02:08:18.319 --> 02:08:22.720
interaction with the guys around her,
you know, going through training would be
1781
02:08:24.199 --> 02:08:26.560
would you say that for the women, like I mean the advice would be
1782
02:08:26.880 --> 02:08:31.439
to get through a selection, the
advice would be the same for the guys,
1783
02:08:31.640 --> 02:08:35.479
like be in shape and don't quit, like suck it up. Yeah,
1784
02:08:35.600 --> 02:08:41.319
well you could. And honestly,
I think anybody that wants it bad
1785
02:08:41.399 --> 02:08:43.479
enough can get through buds as far
as this matters how bad you want it.
1786
02:08:43.600 --> 02:08:46.199
You know, when I was going
through buds and we had to sit
1787
02:08:46.199 --> 02:08:50.600
there and tread water with the uh
double, you know, aluminum's on
1788
02:08:50.600 --> 02:08:54.279
my back. As far as and
I was an experienced diver, I'm just
1789
02:08:54.279 --> 02:08:58.600
like, I said, fuck it, I'm just gonna drown it. I'm
1790
02:08:58.600 --> 02:09:01.960
not gonna quit because we're tread and
water and got the guys pulling you under
1791
02:09:01.000 --> 02:09:05.920
water, and you know, it's
a beehive situation. Everybody's kind of panicking
1792
02:09:05.960 --> 02:09:09.279
a little bit cause everybody wants to
but you've been tread and water for now
1793
02:09:09.319 --> 02:09:11.800
fifteen twenty minutes with these huge fucking
tanks on your back, and you're just
1794
02:09:11.840 --> 02:09:16.199
like, I'm exhausted. I can't. I'm just like, so I had
1795
02:09:16.319 --> 02:09:18.520
made decisions. I said, screw
it, I'm just going to drown and
1796
02:09:18.560 --> 02:09:20.239
go under water and the instructors are
going to come in and save me.
1797
02:09:20.279 --> 02:09:24.720
I'm not quitting, though, But
that was the dedication that I was willing
1798
02:09:24.720 --> 02:09:26.960
to drown myself. Not that you
have to do that. It was just
1799
02:09:28.039 --> 02:09:31.600
that's I don't recommend it. Luckily
it didn't happen. You know, I
1800
02:09:31.640 --> 02:09:33.600
got to the bottom of the pool, and I was just I didn't like
1801
02:09:33.600 --> 02:09:35.399
it down there either, So I
came back up one more time and that's
1802
02:09:35.439 --> 02:09:39.119
when they secured us. Yeah,
but I was going to drowned. Yeah,
1803
02:09:39.560 --> 02:09:43.079
So I don't get me. It
was like in high school, I
1804
02:09:43.199 --> 02:09:46.920
was a little better than an average
athlete. I broke my high school record
1805
02:09:46.920 --> 02:09:50.119
for the most tackles or what.
We had a great you know, I
1806
02:09:50.159 --> 02:09:54.520
peaked in high school because I had
a great high school you know, football
1807
02:09:54.560 --> 02:09:58.960
career. But but I'm saying I
wasn't you know, when I showed up
1808
02:09:58.960 --> 02:10:03.920
to do the first diving screening test
or whatever, and the Seal motivator was
1809
02:10:03.039 --> 02:10:07.680
basically said, all right, you
got to swim this distance and you've got
1810
02:10:07.720 --> 02:10:11.199
to use their side stroke of the
breaststroke. And he goes, if I
1811
02:10:11.199 --> 02:10:13.560
see your hands come out of the
water, and I point to you,
1812
02:10:13.640 --> 02:10:16.960
get out of the pool because you
failed. I'm like, how the hell
1813
02:10:16.000 --> 02:10:20.119
do you swim without your hands coming
out of the water. That's how how
1814
02:10:20.319 --> 02:10:22.880
kind of stupid I was, or
ignorant I was. And so you can
1815
02:10:24.039 --> 02:10:28.279
learn all that stuff as far as
to get better at it, get better,
1816
02:10:28.359 --> 02:10:31.119
running better, that's all that's trainable. It's the mental side of it
1817
02:10:31.199 --> 02:10:33.439
that you're just like, you're going
to do what it takes. You're going
1818
02:10:33.479 --> 02:10:37.439
to prep yourself. You're going to
prepare, You've got to do all the
1819
02:10:37.520 --> 02:10:41.920
droundproofing stuff. It's going to be
second nature to you because you've done it
1820
02:10:41.960 --> 02:10:43.800
a hundred times. It is not
like the first time you do it is
1821
02:10:43.840 --> 02:10:48.000
when you're out at buds. So
that all this stuff is known what you
1822
02:10:48.039 --> 02:10:50.640
should do to prep for it,
and it should be to get through,
1823
02:10:52.119 --> 02:10:56.479
and we should have huge success getting
through because because everybody knows what you need
1824
02:10:56.520 --> 02:11:01.600
to do to get through. Somebody
asked, I haven't. I don't know,
1825
02:11:01.760 --> 02:11:07.640
like I don't follow uh sort of
military like the drama and what.
1826
02:11:07.840 --> 02:11:11.039
I don't know anybody, but somebody
asked, Uh, somebody said that don
1827
02:11:11.079 --> 02:11:16.840
Champley Shipley had a response to you, Uh do you have what did you
1828
02:11:16.880 --> 02:11:22.079
think of his response? I don't
know what that is. Yeah, I
1829
02:11:22.119 --> 02:11:24.760
don't. I don't know what that
is either. I don't see your response.
1830
02:11:26.920 --> 02:11:30.920
I think what what I have heard
is there's a lot of because he
1831
02:11:31.000 --> 02:11:35.239
calls out phony seals, right,
and and so you've got a lot of
1832
02:11:35.239 --> 02:11:39.640
guys out there, So what's what's
worse to me, is you got a
1833
02:11:39.680 --> 02:11:43.960
guy claiming that he's the seal that's
in this you know, small little bar
1834
02:11:43.239 --> 02:11:46.920
somewhere or doing. You know,
somehow he's got some acculates saying he's the
1835
02:11:46.960 --> 02:11:52.359
seal and he's not, and he's
somehow he's been able to benefit from it.
1836
02:11:52.399 --> 02:11:54.840
But it's it's on a small thing. What's worse to me is a
1837
02:11:54.920 --> 02:12:01.159
Tim Sumanski who is an Avy seal
and he uses his run and he uses
1838
02:12:01.239 --> 02:12:05.359
his position to try to stop Chapman
from getting a fucking Congressional Medal of honor.
1839
02:12:05.800 --> 02:12:09.560
So what's worse tim Semanski or a
guy claiming him is the seal over?
1840
02:12:11.279 --> 02:12:16.079
Yeah? Yeah, to get laid
you know, as far as it's
1841
02:12:16.119 --> 02:12:18.399
just it's childish, you know,
it's just like okay, this day and
1842
02:12:18.439 --> 02:12:22.479
age. You know, it's the
global War on terrors. When we're actually
1843
02:12:22.520 --> 02:12:26.000
in war, that shit doesn't matter
anymore. Those guys aren't going to out
1844
02:12:26.000 --> 02:12:28.760
there doing it or whatever. And
if they do, it's another person I'm
1845
02:12:28.760 --> 02:12:31.079
feel sorry for. Just like,
oh my god, you gotta look at
1846
02:12:31.039 --> 02:12:35.640
yourself in the mirror. Uh.
Magnus Red, thank you very much is
1847
02:12:35.840 --> 02:12:43.039
a regiment and mconnais company officially part
of officially a part of Jason. I'd
1848
02:12:43.079 --> 02:12:50.439
have to ask, Yeah, yeah, you check Wikipedia. I'll tell you
1849
02:12:50.520 --> 02:12:54.439
what. The Marines were awesome,
yea. And every time I've worked with
1850
02:12:54.520 --> 02:12:58.239
him, I've been around him as
far as some of the most stand up,
1851
02:12:58.319 --> 02:13:01.680
solid guys. The two Marines that
came on you know, that spoke,
1852
02:13:01.119 --> 02:13:05.399
you know what they saw from tasking
a bruiser while they were there,
1853
02:13:05.239 --> 02:13:09.800
you know, just solid, great
guys, and they did it because they
1854
02:13:09.840 --> 02:13:13.279
do just doing the right thing and
they do it. And those are just
1855
02:13:13.359 --> 02:13:16.359
two of the Marines of the many
that basically have spoken to me. Since
1856
02:13:16.399 --> 02:13:20.520
then, and since I've done these
podcasts, there's people reaching out to our
1857
02:13:20.560 --> 02:13:26.520
network of not only me, but
multiple other seals and exposing more and more
1858
02:13:26.600 --> 02:13:31.279
stuff. So if you're a team
guy and you don't like what I'm saying,
1859
02:13:33.520 --> 02:13:37.159
it's probably because you're one of the
turns that need to go away.
1860
02:13:37.960 --> 02:13:41.600
If you're not, and you're just
like any exposing, just like I'm helping
1861
02:13:41.640 --> 02:13:46.159
you out by basically trying to make
sure this stuff. These guys like Tim
1862
02:13:46.199 --> 02:13:50.079
Semanski and Jocko don't get in charge
of men that get them killed. Both
1863
02:13:50.119 --> 02:13:56.119
those guys got good seals killed because
of their poor leadership and their poor decision
1864
02:13:56.159 --> 02:14:01.319
and they didn't care about their guys'
lives that they put out there. Joe's
1865
02:14:01.359 --> 02:14:05.600
gotcha, thank you very much.
Do you think because of how big and
1866
02:14:05.600 --> 02:14:09.800
successful the seal brand has become that
it's attracting the wrong type of candidates into
1867
02:14:09.880 --> 02:14:18.159
the teams? One hundred Well somewhat
yes, because a lot of people don't
1868
02:14:18.199 --> 02:14:22.239
know that the ones that the branders, the people that are out there branding
1869
02:14:22.319 --> 02:14:28.079
it, aren't the norm. It's
not our quiet, professional, good guys,
1870
02:14:28.359 --> 02:14:31.119
the ones that are willing to go
out and to do this type stuff.
1871
02:14:31.520 --> 02:14:35.479
And now me being one, you
know, kind of out there doing
1872
02:14:35.520 --> 02:14:37.880
it, but I'm not doing it
for any personal benefit. I'm not trying
1873
02:14:37.880 --> 02:14:43.800
to brand myself. All I'm trying
to do is expose the branders that are
1874
02:14:43.840 --> 02:14:46.680
doing it so that other people don't
do it. So, yes, if
1875
02:14:48.159 --> 02:14:50.760
we got guys that are getting into
the teams thinking that they can become a
1876
02:14:50.800 --> 02:14:56.239
movie star or do podcasts or write
books, do one platoon and then write
1877
02:14:56.239 --> 02:15:01.079
a book about being a Navy seal
and just like and so that's what you
1878
02:15:01.119 --> 02:15:05.279
know. The investigative reporters needed.
Just like all these books that came out
1879
02:15:05.520 --> 02:15:09.680
sale books, who who backed them? Who backed Loan Survivor, who backed
1880
02:15:11.119 --> 02:15:15.119
you know, American Sniper who you
know? These who are the puppet masters
1881
02:15:15.159 --> 02:15:20.239
that are controlling Marcus Latrell right now
doing a podcast Team Never Quit. I
1882
02:15:20.239 --> 02:15:24.199
mean that the worst slap on the
face is the guy that quit on the
1883
02:15:24.199 --> 02:15:28.680
battlefield has now got a podcast?
Who is you know? And you know
1884
02:15:28.760 --> 02:15:35.319
Marcus isn't capable of running that himself. There's there's puppet masters that are controlling
1885
02:15:35.439 --> 02:15:39.039
Marcus and making him make some bad
decisions and not expose what he's doing trying
1886
02:15:39.079 --> 02:15:41.920
to make money. And then you
got all the you know, all the
1887
02:15:43.039 --> 02:15:46.159
false awards, and these guys do
speaking engagements. You know, if you
1888
02:15:46.199 --> 02:15:52.119
get Congressional Medal of Honor and comes
speak at your your your event, it
1889
02:15:52.239 --> 02:15:56.319
brings some cloud that you could bring
in somebody of that. Well, if
1890
02:15:56.359 --> 02:16:00.560
it's a false award that this guy
is getting money for, just like who
1891
02:16:00.600 --> 02:16:03.479
promoted that award, who's getting the
kickback from promoting that award? Well,
1892
02:16:03.520 --> 02:16:07.159
and then you have then you have
the majority of the guys who you know,
1893
02:16:07.239 --> 02:16:13.680
people like Red who you know you
will probably you know hopefully we hear
1894
02:16:13.680 --> 02:16:18.640
from him someday. Hopefully he comes
out and tells his story. But he's
1895
02:16:18.680 --> 02:16:22.039
drinking my ties on the beach somewhere. But yeah, or you know,
1896
02:16:22.920 --> 02:16:26.159
or growing weed or doing doing whatever, you know, whatever he wants to
1897
02:16:26.199 --> 02:16:31.399
do. You know, like he's
you know, you have people, and
1898
02:16:31.439 --> 02:16:33.200
there are so many of those guys
out there. And look, there's nothing
1899
02:16:33.200 --> 02:16:37.040
wrong with developing a public person I
mean, Jack and I both have public
1900
02:16:37.040 --> 02:16:41.600
personas. You know, there's nothing
wrong with that. It's just there's so
1901
02:16:41.760 --> 02:16:46.879
many guys out there who are just
content to live their life and and not
1902
02:16:48.440 --> 02:16:54.440
or you have somebody like what's that
podcast or that mister Ballin who he was
1903
02:16:54.559 --> 02:17:00.360
he was a seal, but he
just does weird shit video. It was
1904
02:17:00.440 --> 02:17:05.200
like creepy stuff for cool stuff,
you know, and it's not about it.
1905
02:17:05.799 --> 02:17:07.520
Yeah. Yeah, but I'm saying
that, you know, it sounds
1906
02:17:07.520 --> 02:17:11.760
like he's not representing us too well
No, no, no, you know,
1907
02:17:11.840 --> 02:17:15.040
he's great, he's great. You
know what I'm saying though, is
1908
02:17:15.079 --> 02:17:20.879
that is that, you know,
it is interesting. For instance, I
1909
02:17:20.879 --> 02:17:26.559
think the people that really build their
brand on what they did and not taking
1910
02:17:26.600 --> 02:17:31.000
anything away from that, because if
you did it you you deserve it and
1911
02:17:31.040 --> 02:17:33.440
you have to make a living.
And if you went to Harvard, you're
1912
02:17:33.440 --> 02:17:35.520
going to tell people you went to
Harvard, right, like, there's nothing
1913
02:17:35.559 --> 02:17:39.440
that it's true and it was all
accurate information. I supported one hundred percent.
1914
02:17:41.079 --> 02:17:45.879
If you're not giving away TTPs for
SOPs and you're not exposing you know,
1915
02:17:45.959 --> 02:17:48.000
people that you're not supposed to be
exposing, as far as you're just
1916
02:17:48.040 --> 02:17:52.639
telling a story, that's interesting that
we need heroes, we need guys that
1917
02:17:52.760 --> 02:17:58.120
basically that represent the community correctly and
did the right thing on the battlefield,
1918
02:17:58.200 --> 02:18:01.840
did the right thing in life,
did the right thing in training. And
1919
02:18:03.079 --> 02:18:07.959
those guys, you know, I
got no problem with them doing and capitalizing
1920
02:18:07.000 --> 02:18:09.879
on their experience in the team,
so that that's great. And if they
1921
02:18:09.879 --> 02:18:13.559
wrote a book and it's accurate,
great, shut on them, like or
1922
02:18:15.159 --> 02:18:18.000
Cayle Mullins, Uh seel wrote a
great book. He did it, not
1923
02:18:18.079 --> 02:18:22.639
Kyle Mullens. That's I'm sorry.
He was the seal or the candidate got
1924
02:18:22.680 --> 02:18:30.920
killed mixing up things Milligan and uh
sorry, sorry, Kyle. Kyle should
1925
02:18:30.959 --> 02:18:33.440
have been a you know we've had
we've had on you know, and he's
1926
02:18:33.440 --> 02:18:37.000
a great Okay, I mean we
wouldn't have a show if people weren't willing
1927
02:18:37.040 --> 02:18:41.280
to share their stories. And sharing
their stories is an important part because you
1928
02:18:41.319 --> 02:18:45.319
know, it's just like these histories
need to be told, they need to
1929
02:18:45.360 --> 02:18:48.440
be remembered, they need to be
accessible. Uh you know, and he
1930
02:18:48.639 --> 02:18:52.600
was I'm pretty sure he was that
team for with me. And he was
1931
02:18:52.680 --> 02:18:56.079
a good operator, so as far
as uh, you know, on top
1932
02:18:56.120 --> 02:18:58.440
of being a good author, you
know, he was a good operator.
1933
02:18:58.479 --> 02:19:03.159
So a good dude. So yeah, I'm glad that we shout out we
1934
02:19:03.239 --> 02:19:07.479
love you man. Uh, we'll
even let you come back even though you
1935
02:19:07.600 --> 02:19:11.680
were a seal. Yeah, yeah, Yeah, that's what that brings up
1936
02:19:11.719 --> 02:19:16.079
a great point. There are great
guys out there doing that, are steals
1937
02:19:16.159 --> 02:19:20.280
doing great stuff. I know I'm
bashing, I'm bashing some of them,
1938
02:19:20.399 --> 02:19:24.200
but it's a small percentage. And
that's what you know. Unfortunately, the
1939
02:19:24.319 --> 02:19:28.680
public has put these small percentage because
they're willing to brand themselves and in a
1940
02:19:28.799 --> 02:19:33.799
false way. And and I'm just
bringing light to hey, they didn't do
1941
02:19:33.879 --> 02:19:37.559
what they said they did when they
were active doing it's all. It's also
1942
02:19:37.760 --> 02:19:43.639
interesting what like people pick up on
her when they pick a side, because
1943
02:19:43.840 --> 02:19:48.440
like when uh. You know when
we talked about Eddie Gallagher, right,
1944
02:19:48.680 --> 02:19:52.159
and and people are like, oh, you know, you guys are bashing
1945
02:19:52.200 --> 02:19:54.959
seals. It's like, well,
but there were seals who testified against them.
1946
02:19:54.040 --> 02:20:00.520
So which which which side are we
on? Which which vet are we
1947
02:20:00.680 --> 02:20:03.280
supporting? You know? And with
shields? Do we hate? You know,
1948
02:20:03.680 --> 02:20:07.760
do we hate Eddie Gallagher? Do
we do we hate the seals that
1949
02:20:07.799 --> 02:20:11.840
we're testifying as m Like, you
know, we don't hate any veterans,
1950
02:20:11.000 --> 02:20:18.280
you know, it's like we we
just want to explore the truth. So
1951
02:20:18.600 --> 02:20:24.239
for for that many guys to band
together to and too to call out hit
1952
02:20:24.360 --> 02:20:30.680
their leadership as far as Eddie Gallagher, that's that's that speaks volumes to me,
1953
02:20:31.079 --> 02:20:35.120
right and uh so one guy's word
over this many you know, many
1954
02:20:35.200 --> 02:20:41.319
other guys and then, knowing what
it takes to call out your own right,
1955
02:20:41.360 --> 02:20:45.040
actually gone down that trail. I
know how hard it is, and
1956
02:20:45.159 --> 02:20:48.879
I know that it ruined their careers, you know as far as that,
1957
02:20:48.159 --> 02:20:52.680
you know a lot of them got
out because they were just like, screw
1958
02:20:52.799 --> 02:20:54.879
this. You know, I'm an
honorable guy, and you guys are bashing
1959
02:20:56.000 --> 02:20:58.280
me for standing up and doing what's
right, and just like and you guys
1960
02:20:58.360 --> 02:21:03.920
are taking this guy's word over mine, and just like, just like not
1961
02:21:03.079 --> 02:21:09.840
taking Jesse Venture's word over Chris Kyle. Now everybody knows what a liar Chris
1962
02:21:09.920 --> 02:21:13.840
Kyle was, but at the time, there were so many Team guys bashing
1963
02:21:13.959 --> 02:21:16.239
Jesse and it was unjust uncalled for
and it was sick. You know,
1964
02:21:16.319 --> 02:21:20.799
It's it's bullshit, right because he's
you know, he was an honorable frog
1965
02:21:20.879 --> 02:21:26.079
man that basically did great things for
us. So I got no, I
1966
02:21:26.159 --> 02:21:35.120
got no. You know, after
reading Alpha, I kind of have to
1967
02:21:35.079 --> 02:21:39.479
and when when in the book and
is well sourced or what he would have
1968
02:21:39.479 --> 02:21:43.360
been sued, you know, as
far as it would be, you know,
1969
02:21:43.399 --> 02:21:48.200
So it's it's a well sourced book
in my opinion. And when the
1970
02:21:48.319 --> 02:21:52.639
ego d guy gets shot and you
know, and can die, and they
1971
02:21:52.840 --> 02:21:56.520
instead of calling for a meta back
to that spot, they basically they hide
1972
02:21:56.520 --> 02:21:58.760
where they're at. They basically transport
them all the way back with a chance
1973
02:21:58.799 --> 02:22:03.479
of him dying. It's like over
because he doesn't want to get exposed for
1974
02:22:03.600 --> 02:22:09.639
doing something that he wasn't supposed That's
where the line was was drawn for me.
1975
02:22:09.000 --> 02:22:13.280
That was when they left their blue
Force trackers behind right so that they
1976
02:22:13.040 --> 02:22:18.760
they turned them off. And he's
just like, especially with close in air
1977
02:22:18.799 --> 02:22:20.959
support, and You're just like,
and how easy it is to misidentify a
1978
02:22:22.040 --> 02:22:24.200
group, and just like, so
those guys could have gotten blown up,
1979
02:22:24.479 --> 02:22:30.239
you know, by our frintly fire
easily. That happened even on Jocko's deployment.
1980
02:22:30.280 --> 02:22:33.760
They got you know, blue and
blue situations because they're doing stupid ship
1981
02:22:33.159 --> 02:22:37.239
not telling everybody what they're doing.
And those guys are all talking about that
1982
02:22:37.319 --> 02:22:41.559
stuff too, breddy good, Thank
you very much. Uh. Has Eric
1983
02:22:41.639 --> 02:22:45.879
seen Men of Honor with Cuba getting
Junior? And is it his favorite or
1984
02:22:46.079 --> 02:22:52.000
second favorite Navy Diver movie? It's
my I don't know of any other named
1985
02:22:52.040 --> 02:22:58.399
diver movies, but it's an awesome
one. Yeah, I said, you
1986
02:22:58.479 --> 02:23:03.879
have the that was more Navy Seals? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I
1987
02:23:03.879 --> 02:23:11.079
would so Navy Seal with Charlie Sheen
or you know the Diver movie. Would
1988
02:23:11.159 --> 02:23:16.239
you know? Carl was a true
hero And I think I think he died
1989
02:23:16.360 --> 02:23:22.159
recently, like within the last like
fifteen or twenty years. I think in
1990
02:23:22.399 --> 02:23:24.399
out in New Jersey, right,
I think it was it. Yeah,
1991
02:23:24.719 --> 02:23:28.639
Like no, he was a true
hero. For sure, and if you
1992
02:23:28.760 --> 02:23:31.239
have not seen Men of Honor,
you definitely need to because it's an amazing
1993
02:23:31.360 --> 02:23:37.639
movie and it's a true story.
It's funny because I got a it's a
1994
02:23:37.719 --> 02:23:39.719
replica, but I got a Mark
five dive helmet. Is because I love
1995
02:23:39.799 --> 02:23:43.520
my navy diving career, you know, as far as you should see.
1996
02:23:43.479 --> 02:23:48.040
I I'll purposely don't put all the
paddles and plaques and do it with this
1997
02:23:48.159 --> 02:23:52.600
thing behind me. But I got
a lot of cool memorabilia stuff that I
1998
02:23:52.760 --> 02:23:56.639
just cherish. Yeah, my Mark
five dive helmet, you know, is
1999
02:23:56.719 --> 02:23:58.879
one of them, and it's you
know, I'm pretty crowded. I unfortunately
2000
02:24:00.040 --> 02:24:03.360
onto my plaque with the the old
Mark five dive knife I had. I
2001
02:24:03.479 --> 02:24:05.200
had a plaque you know when I
left with with one of those, and
2002
02:24:05.399 --> 02:24:09.680
those are like almost impossible to find
now. But yeah, I got one
2003
02:24:09.719 --> 02:24:11.600
of those too, and I got
it, you know. So I was
2004
02:24:11.639 --> 02:24:16.399
telling you earlier about it. My
navy dive buddy Ted, and uh,
2005
02:24:16.520 --> 02:24:18.200
we were both high school buddies.
He become a navy diver, I became
2006
02:24:18.239 --> 02:24:22.600
a Navy diver, and but he
he gave it to me because you know,
2007
02:24:22.680 --> 02:24:26.239
when I was telling you he did
a lot of stuff with subs,
2008
02:24:26.280 --> 02:24:28.440
and they would be inside subs sometimes
in some of the lockout things till you
2009
02:24:28.440 --> 02:24:33.840
could bang on. Yeah, this
is a screw motion. It's like in
2010
02:24:33.920 --> 02:24:39.879
this heavy brass. It's a heavy
brass. It's a heavy brass round sheath
2011
02:24:39.959 --> 02:24:43.920
with you got you got your story
down day, yeah story. Yeah.
2012
02:24:45.079 --> 02:24:48.680
Yeah, it's it's a solid yeah. Yeah. It's a cool knife to
2013
02:24:48.760 --> 02:24:54.920
have. Yeah yeah, Kyle Pee, thank you very much. Has the
2014
02:24:56.000 --> 02:25:01.319
relationship between n s W and AFSC
improved after the Chapman Medal of Honor?
2015
02:25:03.479 --> 02:25:09.399
Probably not. I mean, I
think the way we handled that and didn't
2016
02:25:09.440 --> 02:25:15.040
call out our guys as far as
and I'm hoping this will start to repair
2017
02:25:15.120 --> 02:25:18.879
that situation because I'm telling you right
now it should never have happened, and
2018
02:25:20.319 --> 02:25:26.440
unfortunately we didn't weed out people that
we should have earlier make sure that stuff
2019
02:25:26.479 --> 02:25:31.639
didn't happen. It's embarrassing to it
to our community, and I apologize for
2020
02:25:31.760 --> 02:25:37.879
my community. That is, if
we don't have anything else on, No,
2021
02:25:39.000 --> 02:25:43.280
I think that's all we got.
There's more, I asked them,
2022
02:25:43.840 --> 02:25:48.360
Yeah, I think we might have
one more. Well, God, damn
2023
02:25:48.399 --> 02:25:54.760
it? All right? For sure? Oh, Okay, I got it.
2024
02:25:56.879 --> 02:26:00.239
Uh okay. From the outside,
it seems like soft a try at
2025
02:26:00.440 --> 02:26:05.120
the most true believers in service in
addition to weeding out psychopaths, et cetera.
2026
02:26:05.520 --> 02:26:09.000
Did you spot an excess of patriotism
or however you would describe it and
2027
02:26:09.079 --> 02:26:16.639
try to correct it. Thank you
for sharing these insights. Yeah, I'm
2028
02:26:16.680 --> 02:26:20.639
not sure how to answer that one. Yeah, I don't know what an
2029
02:26:20.719 --> 02:26:24.879
excess of patriotism is other than if
you know, you get so far out
2030
02:26:26.600 --> 02:26:31.559
over your skis that you're losing track
of reality. But yeah, I'm not
2031
02:26:31.719 --> 02:26:33.000
entirely sure what he I don't think
you can have I don't know how you
2032
02:26:33.040 --> 02:26:37.280
could have too much patriotism. You
know, as long as you're justified in
2033
02:26:37.360 --> 02:26:45.600
your actions, your your escalation of
force, you're doing things correctly to the
2034
02:26:45.719 --> 02:26:48.760
threat that's presented, and you're doing
it for America, you know, as
2035
02:26:48.760 --> 02:26:52.040
far as I can't think of it, I've been to a lot of other
2036
02:26:52.120 --> 02:26:58.360
countries in the world, and by
far, we're the best. And and
2037
02:26:58.479 --> 02:27:03.440
I love America and I would I
would go through everything I've gone through exactly
2038
02:27:03.559 --> 02:27:07.680
almost identical. Seal community. I
think it's the greatest community out there.
2039
02:27:09.120 --> 02:27:11.639
It's just the most solid guys that
you ever want to go be in a
2040
02:27:11.760 --> 02:27:16.879
wartime situation have on your shoulders,
left and right behind you. Is that
2041
02:27:16.280 --> 02:27:20.479
I never had the work the guys
that I did platoons with the guys that
2042
02:27:20.520 --> 02:27:24.680
I were tasking, I never had
to worry about what they were doing.
2043
02:27:24.840 --> 02:27:28.120
I knew they they controlled their zone
responsibility. They knew I had mine and
2044
02:27:28.319 --> 02:27:33.840
that we could. You know,
we did great things and we're all solid
2045
02:27:33.879 --> 02:27:39.159
guys, and so you know,
all the platoons I did were greatly love
2046
02:27:39.239 --> 02:27:45.040
them. Do you want to tease
out Friday's episode? Yes, So on
2047
02:27:45.479 --> 02:27:52.280
Friday, we are having uh,
we're uh, yeah, we're having pad
2048
02:27:52.399 --> 02:27:56.959
O'donald back thanks with his book and
Vanquished, which is about special operations during
2049
02:27:56.000 --> 02:28:01.959
the Civil War. You know,
presently cans attempt to like, yeah,
2050
02:28:03.159 --> 02:28:07.000
the special operations, the attempt to
find most of these rangers, like a
2051
02:28:07.120 --> 02:28:09.559
lot of very cool stuff. I
haven't finished the book yet, but I
2052
02:28:09.639 --> 02:28:13.319
will. It's getting a ton of
great reviews. And I know Pat was
2053
02:28:13.440 --> 02:28:18.040
researching this. We've had pat On
before. He's a historian author, and
2054
02:28:18.559 --> 02:28:24.079
I know he was researching this book
for a really long time. So if
2055
02:28:24.159 --> 02:28:28.520
you want to hear about like spec
ops way back in the day. We
2056
02:28:28.600 --> 02:28:31.520
haven't had Pat on the show in
like three years. Yeah, yeah,
2057
02:28:31.000 --> 02:28:37.479
so check them out on Friday.
Eric, thank you so much for spending
2058
02:28:37.559 --> 02:28:41.920
your Friday night or Monday night with
us. We really appreciate it. Yeah.
2059
02:28:41.920 --> 02:28:48.319
I appreciate you guys having me on, and I hope so for the
2060
02:28:48.440 --> 02:28:52.760
people out there that, especially if
you're people that are going to start bashing
2061
02:28:52.840 --> 02:28:54.600
me because of this. It happens. As far as I read the comments
2062
02:28:54.879 --> 02:28:58.360
I respond to. You know a
lot of them, especially if they're just
2063
02:28:58.600 --> 02:29:01.520
kind of pissing me off, but
I and they shouldn't bother me. But
2064
02:29:01.680 --> 02:29:03.840
you know, you know, some
of them are just so childish and so
2065
02:29:05.040 --> 02:29:07.959
whatever, and those ones all ignore. But ones that come from it,
2066
02:29:07.239 --> 02:29:11.159
I can tell it comes from a
team guy who's trying to paint, you
2067
02:29:11.200 --> 02:29:13.440
know, a picture. At least
don't be a pansiasmatherfucker puts your name on
2068
02:29:13.520 --> 02:29:18.079
it. I'm putting my face out
there, and I'm willing to stand behind
2069
02:29:18.120 --> 02:29:20.719
what I'm saying. Don't be a
piece of shit and basically make a comment
2070
02:29:22.079 --> 02:29:24.920
as being like coming from you're an
operational team guy. You know, as
2071
02:29:24.959 --> 02:29:28.159
far as without putting your name on
it. And then you know, so
2072
02:29:28.280 --> 02:29:33.399
anyway, you know, I'll stand
behind what I'm saying, stand behind what
2073
02:29:33.479 --> 02:29:35.840
you're saying, and that's when you
most of them won't do it. So
2074
02:29:37.680 --> 02:29:43.360
you know, if you're if you're
open to it, maybe on our Patreon
2075
02:29:43.719 --> 02:29:50.239
if you we could put the complaint
and I'd be happy to you know,
2076
02:29:50.520 --> 02:29:54.639
and you know, maybe some of
the some of the course reviews, if
2077
02:29:54.920 --> 02:29:58.760
you're open to it, Yeah,
yeah, no, I'll put some stuff
2078
02:29:58.760 --> 02:30:03.520
together as far as some after actions, as far as the critiques of you
2079
02:30:03.600 --> 02:30:05.639
know, some of the key guys
that you know basically that talk shit,
2080
02:30:07.079 --> 02:30:11.840
you know, or that might say
something negative because I'll tell you honestly,
2081
02:30:11.959 --> 02:30:18.840
the biggest Travis D that you know
has happened because of Jocko and Tim Sumanski
2082
02:30:18.319 --> 02:30:22.920
is when they got rid of CQD
and just so everybody, So just so
2083
02:30:22.040 --> 02:30:26.200
that everybody out there, as far
as that's active duty right now, Dwayne
2084
02:30:26.319 --> 02:30:31.040
is still training everybody and everybody not
he's selective, you know, and it's
2085
02:30:31.079 --> 02:30:33.520
still quiet professional but he's got a
training site up with kill houses and three
2086
02:30:33.600 --> 02:30:41.319
hundred whatever acres of property of Long
Ranges and he's still busy as as he
2087
02:30:41.399 --> 02:30:46.760
can possibly be. He does a
lot of great stuff for kids and you
2088
02:30:46.799 --> 02:30:50.399
know, a heroes programs. He's
still crushing it up there, and we
2089
02:30:50.559 --> 02:30:56.920
need those ethics brought back into NSW
and he doesn't give a ship. He'll
2090
02:30:56.959 --> 02:31:01.719
start training tomorrow. You know,
people reach out to him like ourselves that
2091
02:31:01.920 --> 02:31:05.600
need that training. And I'll tell
you right now, it is life changing,
2092
02:31:05.719 --> 02:31:09.440
life saving training. And that's why
it was for twenty two years and
2093
02:31:09.639 --> 02:31:13.159
why these two turns had to get
rid of it because it exposed them for
2094
02:31:13.280 --> 02:31:16.920
being turns. Well, it's interesting
because what was that old video cause because
2095
02:31:16.959 --> 02:31:22.520
like when you mentioned like Frank Kushi, like, I know that the teams
2096
02:31:22.559 --> 02:31:28.479
training under like Vernac Runac or you
know the j the JKD stuff, and
2097
02:31:28.959 --> 02:31:31.799
you know, and then Frank could
but a lot of those guys were coming
2098
02:31:31.840 --> 02:31:35.680
out with those was it Panther videos? What was the video company that you'd
2099
02:31:35.719 --> 02:31:41.799
see in Soldier of Fortune and Black
Belt Manguts over a few but but they
2100
02:31:41.840 --> 02:31:46.440
would always have those huge like page
ads about the secret hand to hand you
2101
02:31:46.520 --> 02:31:50.600
know techniques and Navy seals and they'd
be like armed with only a knife,
2102
02:31:50.639 --> 02:31:56.040
and I'd be like why would they
go into combat armed with only a knife?
2103
02:31:56.680 --> 02:32:01.600
You know, Yeah, but the
tactical failures of just like, how
2104
02:32:01.680 --> 02:32:07.440
did you end up in that situation
in the first place? Just like and
2105
02:32:07.559 --> 02:32:11.120
so it's it's when you when you
get into the operational world and you start
2106
02:32:11.239 --> 02:32:16.000
understanding what's operational and what's not.
You quickly find out that why in the
2107
02:32:16.079 --> 02:32:22.239
hell would I be doing Why would
I be carrying a hatchet? You know,
2108
02:32:22.520 --> 02:32:28.239
going on target? You know,
as far as it doesn't there's a
2109
02:32:28.280 --> 02:32:31.399
lot of not you know, it
looks cool and some I don't know if
2110
02:32:31.440 --> 02:32:37.559
you some of you, but you
quickly realized there's no tactical when we are
2111
02:32:37.639 --> 02:32:41.559
trying to shred ounces on our body
armor and we're trying to make us because
2112
02:32:41.559 --> 02:32:45.399
we got to carry all this stuff, and you got to and you're carrying
2113
02:32:45.760 --> 02:32:50.200
a one or two pound friggin something
that's not tactically sound to use when you
2114
02:32:50.239 --> 02:32:56.399
would ever have to use it would
probably you've made so many tactical infractions that
2115
02:32:56.799 --> 02:32:58.959
you probably shouldn't have a gun in
the first place, in my opinion.
2116
02:33:00.840 --> 02:33:07.200
So I'll tell you that I carried
a tomahawk my first few ops because I
2117
02:33:07.399 --> 02:33:15.440
grew up and like idolizing the LURT
guys and you know, the guys in
2118
02:33:15.600 --> 02:33:20.040
Vietnam that carried stuff like that,
because there was an operational use for it
2119
02:33:20.200 --> 02:33:24.319
in Vietnam for those guys. But
in my mind, I had it,
2120
02:33:24.799 --> 02:33:28.440
you know, that was what I
thought. I also have mentioned before that
2121
02:33:28.639 --> 02:33:33.319
I had a magazine full of tracers
because they did. The tracers got me
2122
02:33:35.000 --> 02:33:39.000
almost shot the fuck up because it
told the enemy exactly where I was,
2123
02:33:41.159 --> 02:33:46.200
and it's unnecessary in a time when
you have IR lasers and ye and that
2124
02:33:46.559 --> 02:33:50.200
the tomahawk went away after I figured
out it was really hard getting over a
2125
02:33:50.239 --> 02:33:56.319
wall with shit hanging all over your
gear, and the fact that once your
2126
02:33:56.399 --> 02:34:01.280
primary goes down and your second ear
he goes down, it's probably not time
2127
02:34:01.319 --> 02:34:05.079
to pull out. You know.
First off, if your primary ant secondary
2128
02:34:05.159 --> 02:34:07.040
gone down, there's something wrong.
And then by the time you'll get a
2129
02:34:07.079 --> 02:34:11.799
Tomawk out, things are really things
are really out of control. Yeah.
2130
02:34:13.680 --> 02:34:16.600
Yeah, Now it brings up a
good point because when we when I first
2131
02:34:16.600 --> 02:34:18.760
started a sw you know, every
like tenth round was you know, a
2132
02:34:18.840 --> 02:34:22.520
trace around because we didn't have the
you know, the MDGs and stuff like
2133
02:34:22.600 --> 02:34:26.840
that. So as far as you
know, as we evolved, we get
2134
02:34:26.920 --> 02:34:31.600
better, and we started we all
did we all did stupid things when we
2135
02:34:31.680 --> 02:34:35.639
were young, and then we weren't
really in a war situation as drastically and
2136
02:34:35.719 --> 02:34:39.760
we start to realize that thing,
you know, white light compromises you as
2137
02:34:39.760 --> 02:34:43.719
far as not having a suppressor,
you know, basically muzzle flash when you
2138
02:34:43.959 --> 02:34:48.959
when you when you get the ID
the bad guy because of the muzzle flash,
2139
02:34:48.040 --> 02:34:52.440
you appreciate that you don't have muzzle
flash. Yeh yeah, Well,
2140
02:34:54.000 --> 02:34:56.280
Eric, thank you so much for
coming and spending a few hours of your
2141
02:34:56.319 --> 02:35:01.760
time on the show with us and
spitting some some tough pills to swallow,
2142
02:35:03.079 --> 02:35:07.959
but I think it's important for people
to hear them. Yeah, and to
2143
02:35:07.079 --> 02:35:13.200
my community out there, I'm just
trying to help us, so I hope
2144
02:35:13.280 --> 02:35:16.959
this helps. I really do.
Thank you man, appreciate I appreciate you
2145
02:35:18.040 --> 02:35:22.079
know, the integrity and we'll see
all of you guys on Friday with Pat
2146
02:35:22.200 --> 02:35:26.239
O'Donnell be there, b Square.
Thank you thanks for having me on