Tangled in Reflection, Recovery & Resilience (with Ty Herndon)

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Welcome to the Tangle with Kyle Ridley.
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Happy New Week for everyone.
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One episode this week.
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We're slowing down a little bit, but I have some awesome people on the way, including today's fantastic, iconic guest.
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I'm speaking with Ty Herndon.
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This man's a legend.
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He has been around the country music scene for decades at this point, and he is well known as the first gay male country artist to come out publicly.
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And he documents it all in his new memoir, What Mattered Most.
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This is a beautiful book.
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It is a heavy book.
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It's taken him a long time to write because he's lived a lot over these last several years.
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And I'm sure it was probably daunting to think about tackling this book and sharing it with the world, but also cathartic.
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I'm sure it was healing as well.
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So a trigger warning for this episode because we go all over the place talking about addiction, we talk about sexual abuse, we talk about sexuality, obviously.
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And you know, as we say, we go deep, we go shallow.
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But this one goes pretty deep.
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But I think he's helping a lot of people with this book.
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I really applaud him and I appreciate and respect his candor.
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I uh it takes a lot to be this vulnerable and open.
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And so I really tip my hat to him.
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It takes a lot.
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And as we always say, sometimes it takes a few decades to really come into your own and understand yourself and take these lessons that we've learned and share them with others and hopefully that they will take them and learn along the way.
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And I think he's doing just that.
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So stay tuned for that.
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As far as what I am been tangled in, a couple things.
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I'll start with the, I guess, more negative side.
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And this isn't really negative because again, it's all lessons learned.
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And I think last week's Tangle, where I was ranting about women not getting the respect they deserve, that went on a little long.
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So thank you for listening to that.
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Totally back everything that I said as well.
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So I was tangled in something over the weekend.
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I, you know, I hang out with a lot of friends and we went out on Saturday night and I was having a great time.
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But you know how you always are working on yourself, or I think we're always working on ourselves year by year, decade by decade, and we're getting better.
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I think that's always the goal is to improve upon past behaviors and past mindsets and take those lessons, learn, apply them to improve along the way.
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And as the evening went on, I found myself falling into some old behaviors, some old mindsets, some old patterns that I have really worked to get out of, untangle myself from them.
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And I was fully aware of it throughout the whole evening, like, uh, these past behaviors, these past mindsets, these past insecurities are rearing their ugly head.
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And I couldn't find the words to speak up and communicate directly and untangle myself in the moment.
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And you know, when you're fully aware of what's happening and you're like, okay, Kyle, you're falling into this.
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You need to speak up.
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This is what you should be doing.
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And it was just like something had a stronghold on me.
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I was choked.
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I could not get the words out and got a little moody.
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And oftentimes when that happens, I shut down.
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So I got quiet.
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And I also understand that that's fine.
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I think a lot of times I need time to process to find the words.
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And a lot of times I'm better when I text or write it out than when I speak after some hours of reflection.
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But I also am working on communicating in the moment, which I didn't do.
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So I was a little frustrated with that.
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That was a frustrating tangle.
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Of course, the next day I laid it all out, wrote it down, got my thoughts in order.
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But it's just frustrating sometimes when a past behavior returns and you're just like, go away, I've worked on you.
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Why are you back here?
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But I think I dealt with it pretty quickly and uh I think healthily in the end cleared the air.
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We can hope.
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That's one thing.
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And the other exciting tangle is I am a foster dog dad.
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So I have three rescue dogs of my own, and I also have several boarders that I have at my house, whether it's for overnight stays or doggy daycares.
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I just, that's part of my calling, I think, is to take care of these animals and keep them all around me on the couch and in the bed.
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And I just, you know, I have much more patience and love for animals than I do humans most of the time.
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And I've been wanting to foster.
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I fostered maybe 20 years ago when I was in my early 20s and helped many cats, many dogs when I lived in the country.
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And then, you know, you grow up, you get busy, you adopt your own dogs.
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But I I, you know, I live alone.
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I have a nice yard.
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I have the time and space right now to help.
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So I want to help animals in a way that's not just making money.
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So I got my first foster dog.
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I saw him actually online maybe six weeks ago, and he just caught my eye.
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So I filled out an application, but he tested positive for heartworm and he was in a shelter in South Carolina receiving treatment over the last month or so.
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So he's finally good to go and he can resume activity because when you get treated for heartworm, you are limited to activity for many weeks.
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Right now he's right behind me sleeping.
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He is a golden retriever slash great Pyrenees mix, and he's beautiful.
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He's all white, he's about 60 pounds.
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He sheds so much.
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I gave him a double bath because he was pretty dirty, but he's uh he's coming into his own.
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I think he was clearly someone's pet at some point.
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He's trained.
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He's just very shy and timid and scared right now because he was obviously loved at some point, and he's probably unsure of, you know, where's his family.
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Ugh, it breaks my heart, but I can also find comfort in knowing that he's safe with me and we're gonna find him a good home, and hopefully he'll be the first of many dogs that I help.
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But also, you know, I know I'm gonna grow close to all of these foster dogs, and my my hope is that I don't become a foster fail because that happened a couple times in my early 20s, and I don't have the space.
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I want to be able to keep saving animals.
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So I'm gonna try not to get too attached to these fosters, but I love them.
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All right, let's get to today's episode because this is a deep one.
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This is a special one.
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A reminder to follow Ty Herndon wherever you can on his website, on his social medias, and make sure to check out his memoir, What Mattered Most, and enjoy this conversation with the groundbreaking Ty Herndon.
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All right, Ty Herndon, releasing your first memoir, What Mattered Most.
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It's so revealing.
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I've been digging into it for a couple weeks now.
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First, I want to start with thanking you for writing this because I think it's gonna help a lot of people, and I know it's taken 60 plus years to get it all out.
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Uh, let's talk about the writing process first because you are reliving a lot of trauma.
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And I assume you've been writing this for a long time.
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Take me through the highs and lows of getting it down on paper.
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Was it cathartic?
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Was there a lot of hesitation on certain stories to share?
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Was it overwhelming?
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Take me through it all.
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My husband says I gave a new meaning to having to sit in the corner and cry because I ended up there a lot of times, you know, just praying through something or just finished uh with an EMDR session, digging way deep to find keys to open doors that were shut a long time ago.
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But I knew that I had to take the, I was ready to take that journey because I I lived the majority of my life trying in a business where you should be wanting to be seen, desperately trying not to be seen.
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And it's so interesting.
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I just did the country radar seminar here in Nashville, and it was all about being seen.
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And so I was able to offer perspective about the cancer of not being seen and being okay with that and living your life that way.
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So the magnifying glass that I had to put on myself and walking through the tapestry of my life, I like to say with a good needle and thread, because I had to do a lot of repair, that I didn't even know that I would have to do.
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It was more than telling a story.
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It was an unexpected journey with my new best friend David Ritz, who had a feeling, I know I know he had a feeling in his bones that was this was going to be so much more for me than even I realized.
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And we didn't we we started with the gas pedal to the floor.
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We never let up.
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And because I think when you've lived a life of having to hide just to be in a business that you love, you lose the ability to um um to have breaks.
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Or you used them in all the wrong places, as David said.
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David's a celebrated writer.
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So was he your sounding board?
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He he and Alex, your husband, during this very insular process?
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Because I'm sure there were moments you were like, this is too much.
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I I can't I can't release this.
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Definitely this moments, but also trying to find the value in is this going to be valuable to from number one, for yourself, you know, for healing, and is it self-serving?
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Just really dissecting the information.
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And what I learned was there was, as Mr.
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Ritz said, I would find out, there's nothing not valuable.
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If it lives in you, it's valuable.
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And the job is is once we get that out of there, deciding what to do with it, you know, and you don't want to burn it down.
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I mean, you don't want to trash this information because you did that enough to yourself.
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So building a room that um that this information can archive and live in, that you can go back to it, that it becomes self-help was a huge part of this journey.
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And I've done a lot of counseling and and trying to figure things out almost since the beginning.
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Honestly, I've never even given any thought or time to this word called trauma.
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I didn't understand how it lives in you.
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I didn't understand how it controls you.
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It becomes so much a part of your DNA that um it's you become unrecognizable because something else is driving it.
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So the addictions and and they're not excuses.
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It just actually is.
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For me, it was the uh the last piece of the puzzle that I don't think I've ever even heard or talked about.
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And so the mental health journey for me was was church.
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It was so church.
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I mean you had a ton of success.
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So you do cover that, the highs, but like you said, there's a lot of of trauma along the way.
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You talk about coming out, hiding, marriages, divorces, arrest, addiction, sexual abuse, money troubles.
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And I want to now talk about the audiobook version because if people don't want to read it, they can hear you.
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And I I heard it took eight days to record this.
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I'm sure that was very intense, speaking all of this aloud.
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Take me through the difference between writing it all down versus after it's all done, now you're saying it aloud for eight days straight.
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What was that like?
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Well, my grandmother used to say, if you haven't had a new experience or or learned something, you know, and she said this at 99 years old, then you you haven't lived that day.
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So I think the audiobook made me live a thousand years because I was too close to it.
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I read the pages, I'd edited the pages with David.
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But now it's time for uh for a 10-year-old to a 60-year-old to tell a story.
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And I'd never done anything like that.
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I've done it through music so much.
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Um, but it took I was very unsettled for the first couple of days.
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I just I couldn't find a place to sit down.
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And the flout of the bumblebees came back.
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I mean, uh a simple word like necessity looked like a Japanese word.
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I mean, just complete mind tricks.
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And it took my dear friend Kristen Chinworth dropping by the studio, and I guess some little birds told her I was struggling, and uh, she happened to be in town, and she dropped by with a with a cheesecake, a blueberry cheesecake, and uh um that she made herself.
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And so we had a bite of cheesecake, and she goes, Listen, she says this is this is really simple.
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She said, You're sitting right in the middle of your hometown, and you're sitting right next to this guy, and you're trying to tell his story, but you're messing it up, man.
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She said, You st go sit up there on that hill and look down on this town and love that guy and tell his story.
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Remove yourself, but tell his story.
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And it changed everything because I she was right.
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You know, I was I was getting too involved with just you know, God, I gotta make this moment believable.
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You know, it's already believable.
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You just have to tell it now.
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And so I came back in and the the next the next five days went pretty great because I was able to just love Thai.
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Love little version of Thai, love the nine-year-old, love, you know, all the work that I'd been doing.
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The outcome of that when I finished, I knew, I had a knowing that it was done and it was exactly where it needed to be, and it couldn't get any better.
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And um something in me changed that day.
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This whole process, you know, we come home to ourselves in a lot of ways.
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And this book was a one-way ticket to revival.
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I had no idea.
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Just the pieces of my life that weren't there.
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Uh, they were just missing.
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Thank God for good friends who've been with me on this journey because I had to go, Carl, Bonnie, what the hell was going on here?
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And by the grace of God, they knew details.
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And I was so grateful for it.
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And you mentioned, you know, loving little Ty finally now at this age.
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So let's go back to the early days in Mississippi.
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Of course, many people know you as the first openly gay country male superstar to come out.
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That was in your 50s, though.
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So you had sexual desires, you talking the book about having sexual desires as a child, fantasizing about cowboys at the rodeo, but you were raised in faith in Mississippi.
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You were very close to your family.
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At what age did you realize you were gay and needed to suppress this?
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Even before I knew what the word meant, starting in a tabernacle, being called homosexual, like what is that?
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You know?
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But the way it was presented to me, it was very bad.
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And so it was trauma.
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I call it trauma one.
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And trauma one is base camp.
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And so I got set up pretty good to start collecting them.
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And I collected a warehouse of them, of traumas and and self-loathing and all the all the things that a a little guy should never have to to, you know, you shouldn't have to sit at that table ever.
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And um uh the resilience of as you will see in this book, uh, of the women around me my whole life.
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Needless to say, you know, they're Super Bowl champions at protecting and teaching and all the things that live in me that I thought, gosh, you know, I'll never be that smart.
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I'll never be uh be able to put that together.
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I'm just the the wagon of stuff that comes with trauma as a kid.
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And man, have I become a that little nine-year-old that was called to preach, you know, in a way he's back, but it's he's it's more of a teach now because the whole purpose of this has been a complete pay it forward that you're not alone.
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Like The Velvet Rage is one of my favorite books, you know, and it it's still around.
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And I said, I I hope that a hundred years from now this is sitting in a in in the most beautiful little bookstore and somebody discovers it, and it'll still stand.
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It'll stand for a lifetime of truths that were not present when they needed to be and the damage that came with that.
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I the back to the women.
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I believe I'm here today because of those women because they get my, you know, gave me a little bit of they gave me a really good support bra.
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Yeah.
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We'll talk about some of those women in a little bit.
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And yes, people will discover this book for generations to come.
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I know it will be helping.
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I love that you talked about how you were a shampoo boy and washing the wigs and enjoyed that.
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I was never, you know, the the sporty kid either.
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You didn't play sports, you had acne, you had ADHD, and you were and living in a very religious household.
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Was praying the gay away a big aspect of your life?
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And for how long?
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No, it was praying.
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You don't get an F on a report card around our house on our house.
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Um I I I used humor a lot as analogies because I had to growing up.
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But you know, you know, I probably could have said to mom and dad if I've known what the word meant at an early age, and they would have helped me build out a tapestry that would have worked for me.
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But, you know, I th I made kind of sound like I was a, you know, my family was all a beautician, so I, of course, I was the kid that would rode his horse with a with the mop on top of his head because I wanted long hair, you know.
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And those things were shameful to me.
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And, you know, they're not anymore.
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If I had a kid, I'm like, I'll buy you 10 mops, baby.
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You know, just you gotta be you.
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And that's just the way it is.
00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:14.639
And and but I'm gonna help you make sure those mops are good for you and they're good in your life, and that they're serving you and not hurting you.
00:15:14.879 --> 00:15:27.279
So that's become a big thing for me in a and it's in a time we're in right now where it's just so easy to to hurt, kill, just all the things that that that we need as human beings to to be creative and wonderful, alive, and proud.
00:15:27.519 --> 00:15:28.960
So I think that needs protecting.
00:15:29.120 --> 00:15:42.159
So it was time for this book because I walked through I say I say I a lot, but if I was walking through this fire, and there was I was attached to a lot of people and knowing that now, you know, it was a great journey of amends to folks.
00:15:42.320 --> 00:15:44.720
Um somebody said, Well, is this a tell-all book?
00:15:44.799 --> 00:15:46.879
I said, Yeah, I'm telling on myself.
00:15:47.120 --> 00:16:07.440
And if you are in these pages, if you're mentioned or you're not, whether your name's changed, whether you're in the media with me, this book honors you because you were a part of my dream and you were a part of something really special to me that I've never had the words to say because um uh I was running full steam ahead trying to get somewhere the wrong way.
00:16:08.080 --> 00:16:13.679
And uh isn't it interesting how authenticity becomes authenticity becomes not a Japanese word?
00:16:14.080 --> 00:16:16.080
It becomes so important.
00:16:16.559 --> 00:16:18.879
And I'm so grateful to to have landed there.
00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:20.080
And I still have work to do.
00:16:20.159 --> 00:16:22.960
You know, it's like grandma said, till you're not here, you got work to do.
00:16:23.200 --> 00:16:24.399
Yeah, I always have work to be done.
00:16:24.559 --> 00:16:26.559
And you're still very much a man of God.
00:16:26.720 --> 00:16:39.440
Can you talk about your relationship with faith and how it's evolved over the decades and how, you know, probably back back then, maybe denying because of faith or fears and how how you see it now, your relationship to God.
00:16:39.600 --> 00:16:40.960
Because you call yourself a God man.
00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:41.759
Yeah, man.
00:16:41.840 --> 00:16:47.519
But th through through the hell that I walked through, I'm I've never denied my spirituality and and God, wherever you want to call it.
00:16:47.600 --> 00:16:51.919
But you know, I had some pretty good teachers, even in the early days, say you it's something bigger than you.
00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:59.120
It's something that you should be able to run to, that you feel safe, a safe place to land where there's a church, it's whether it's a tree or tree house.
00:16:59.360 --> 00:17:01.360
I'm so grateful that I had that connection early on.
00:17:01.519 --> 00:17:09.759
And one thing I know that it may look like it on the outside when these people the church hurts you or somebody hurts you, but once that connection is there, no one can take it away.
00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:11.839
And it's something that you feel inside you.
00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:22.400
And I can tell you the number of times that you know during the addiction years or all the bad things that were happening, that I still said, God, I know I'm not supposed to be here, higher power, whatever you are right now, just protect me.
00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:33.920
You know, and just going through a career of so many albums, and if I ever needed safety, I'm not a guy that goes and r really listens to a lot of my music, but I'd go remind myself that I got I got through that and I did it great.
00:17:34.079 --> 00:17:39.200
I'm like, that's the one, that's the one gift that was given to me that that no one can take away.
00:17:39.519 --> 00:17:43.519
And um even if I didn't sing anymore, it lives in me.
00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:46.079
So it's a safety net of truth.
00:17:46.319 --> 00:17:48.799
It was the only thing that ever told me the truth that I told the truth too.
00:17:48.880 --> 00:17:50.559
And David Ritz pointed this out to me.
00:17:50.640 --> 00:17:52.960
We were well into the a year into the book.
00:17:53.119 --> 00:17:54.720
He said, I don't know if you know this or not.
00:17:54.799 --> 00:17:59.119
I'm gonna tell you, he goes, um I started doing your timeline through your music.
00:17:59.279 --> 00:18:01.279
He was you've told you've you've told it all.
00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:04.079
You've been telling it since your first record.
00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:05.519
Uh he walked me through it.
00:18:05.680 --> 00:18:08.160
I was like, holy cow, I was.
00:18:08.319 --> 00:18:10.319
And I I had to run to the corner again.
00:18:10.640 --> 00:18:12.319
The corner can be a good place too.
00:18:13.839 --> 00:18:14.480
I never knew it.
00:18:14.559 --> 00:18:16.160
It's just my timeline was in my music.
00:18:16.400 --> 00:18:23.359
And doubling back to the women in your life who have been such a champion of yours, at the core of it all is your mama Peggy, who is still by your side.
00:18:23.599 --> 00:18:30.960
Can you take me through your coming out to her and just her unyielding support and celebration of her son and what that means to you?
00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:34.559
I mean, if a kid is failing, it lives in the mom too.
00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:35.839
That not that she ever took it on.
00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:37.119
She just knew there was something.
00:18:37.279 --> 00:18:42.160
She had to try to do something about it, try to understand it, or help me understand it.
00:18:42.319 --> 00:18:45.200
But most of the time I didn't want to have those conversations, you know.
00:18:45.359 --> 00:18:46.160
They were too hard.
00:18:46.240 --> 00:18:52.160
And I certainly didn't want it to hurt my mom or affect my mom or, you know, anybody tell you that's in show business, it affects the whole family.
00:18:52.640 --> 00:19:00.880
Even the way they talk, you know, when things are going great, you know, I love the story in the book with my they went down to film my family and they all started talking like they're old Hollywood.
00:19:01.039 --> 00:19:02.640
I was like, who are you people?
00:19:02.799 --> 00:19:03.599
You're Hicks.
00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:14.079
Start talking like Mom has always been, Mom, you know, she will tell you, yes, we have a codependent relationship, because if we didn't, you'd be dead.
00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:15.599
And she's right about that.
00:19:15.759 --> 00:19:20.160
She created a space for my sister and I both that we could tell her anything.
00:19:20.319 --> 00:19:22.880
We knew it wouldn't come with judgment, it would come with advice.
00:19:22.960 --> 00:19:25.920
But if she handed it out, you better listen because she's not gonna say it to us.
00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:32.640
So her getting on an airplane when I didn't listen so many times and buying a, you know, a coffin and showing me a picture of it.
00:19:32.799 --> 00:19:41.119
I mean, that took some planning, but she knew that it was either that or I love you, son, and I know I won't see you again.
00:19:41.279 --> 00:19:48.000
And so, you know, it's just my mama taking taking the the high road and the in in a in a a purse full of class, you know.
00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:50.720
But um strong woman.
00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:52.160
She she is.
00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:58.319
Now your hope your hope is for others to find themselves in your book and the courage to embrace themselves.
00:19:58.480 --> 00:20:06.880
Can you talk about the interactions you've had with fans over the years who see themselves in you and have confided in you and maybe are still struggling to embrace themselves?
00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:14.000
I know the bravery it takes to walk up to someone and tell them a story and tell them something that you really don't want to talk about.
00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:16.400
And I see it before he even comes.
00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:19.440
I see it in a kid, I see it in a beautiful man or woman.
00:20:19.759 --> 00:20:26.480
There's a look on on their face, because I know the look because I have it, that is it's saying I need to say something, but I need to scream it.
00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:28.960
But you can just you can just whisper it to me.
00:20:29.599 --> 00:20:32.720
Um the the most powerful moments came after 2020.
00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:38.480
I didn't want to be on the planet anymore and um you know, tempted to not be here once again.
00:20:38.720 --> 00:20:43.279
You know, it landed me back on the on the safe place of music, writing a song about it.
00:20:43.519 --> 00:20:50.720
Sitting in a room with four writers that that had lost something very dear because of suicide or um or surviving suicide.
00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:57.440
Uh and I've known these guys for a long time and did all of a sudden sitting there writing the song, I said, I got this idea about God or the gun.
00:20:57.599 --> 00:20:59.519
And the song was born in an hour.
00:20:59.839 --> 00:21:03.279
That's how much that these guys needed to write that song with me.
00:21:03.680 --> 00:21:05.200
For me and with me and for them.
00:21:05.519 --> 00:21:13.680
But the the lightning bolt of of of of healing from that song happened pretty pretty quickly.
00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:16.799
Probably maybe the maybe first or second show.
00:21:17.119 --> 00:21:18.160
I'll never forget this.
00:21:18.400 --> 00:21:23.200
I saw this kid and his dad, they were s they were standing, the place was sold out.
00:21:23.279 --> 00:21:26.079
It was just it was a um a little performing arts center.
00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:38.240
And I I talked to him after the show and and uh his dad said, Well, um my son wanted to come see you tonight and we drove 200 miles uh because he um he attempted suicide last year.
00:21:38.559 --> 00:21:42.400
He said, but um um he he sur he survived it.
00:21:42.640 --> 00:21:45.680
I said I said like I looked at him and said, You had some angels around you, didn't you?
00:21:45.759 --> 00:21:46.720
He goes, Yes.
00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:48.400
But I can't say that to people.
00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:54.079
I said, You can but you'll I said, But you'll get you'll get there, you say what you need to say for you.
00:21:54.400 --> 00:21:56.319
Right now, I never know what to say.
00:21:56.640 --> 00:22:05.039
I'm not I'm not schooled and and and uh talking to people about this stuff, but I I found out that I lived it so I was.
00:22:05.519 --> 00:22:08.000
Um a song can change everything.
00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:10.960
We use it to celebrate, we use it to grieve, we use it to heal.
00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:14.960
But he said, his dad said, the reason we're here tonight is because he doesn't want to talk about it.
00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:18.960
And when he does, he just he just sends people that s the song.
00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:20.640
He sends them God or the gun.
00:22:20.720 --> 00:22:22.400
And he said that's all it that's all he needed.
00:22:22.480 --> 00:22:28.640
And I was like, I didn't want to cry when I'm the kid, you know, it's like I was like holy cow give me you know give me strength here.
00:22:28.799 --> 00:22:41.759
But um I've had those moments and you know to see a 17 year old brave enough to just say I I want to go see the person that sang the song that was an ordained journey that I had no idea I was on.
00:22:41.920 --> 00:22:45.039
And this there's been a lot of those, especially in this book.
00:22:45.279 --> 00:22:47.119
Now you know I'm not going to get to this interview with that crying.
00:22:47.279 --> 00:22:47.519
You know that.
00:22:47.599 --> 00:22:49.039
So that's my goal.
00:22:50.160 --> 00:22:51.599
Yeah I don't apologize for it.
00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:56.319
No and I I specifically wanted to talk about that song God of the Guns so thank you for sharing that.
00:22:56.400 --> 00:22:58.240
That was in my notes so I appreciate that.
00:22:58.480 --> 00:23:03.759
And leading to that I wanted to talk about the Foundation for love and acceptance which you created.
00:23:03.920 --> 00:23:05.119
Can you talk a little bit about that?
00:23:05.599 --> 00:23:10.160
Another aha moment another beautiful thing that came out of something I feared.
00:23:10.960 --> 00:23:12.960
Boy, I tell you what, fear is power.
00:23:13.119 --> 00:23:18.400
You just don't understand sometimes what you fear the most is going to show up if you let it in the best way.
00:23:18.559 --> 00:23:19.680
You're never going to control it.
00:23:19.839 --> 00:23:21.680
You know, I never could control the narrative.
00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:25.519
But I get to control the narrative of this it's my story and it's the truth.
00:23:25.759 --> 00:23:41.680
But coming out I went to flew to New York, sat down with Shelley Wright, Zeke Stokes, he was vice president of GLAD at the time, Mitchell Gold because of Shelly, I got to meet some really powerful people that knew more truth than I did, that were able to navigate the fear and be successful.
00:23:41.920 --> 00:23:44.240
It was it was the big remaining piece.
00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:55.279
I was living in Kansas City with my partner Matt at the time and I just I would have days I would crawl on my skin because my my blood and bones just weren't working for the for the life that I was living and headed to.
00:23:55.440 --> 00:23:58.319
So out of desperation I called Shelly and she answered the phone.
00:23:58.400 --> 00:23:59.599
She goes, is it time?
00:23:59.759 --> 00:24:07.359
Because it is time but I don't know what that means you know she goes honey you have to be prepared to walk away from everything.
00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:12.559
That's just all there's to it because what will be born from that, you're not going to understand or know.
00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:13.200
It's different.
00:24:13.359 --> 00:24:23.599
So with a really big encouraging hug through words from Shelly, three hour conversation, you know, prayed about it, gave it up the universe and said, you know, this is the right thing to do.
00:24:24.079 --> 00:24:36.559
I've really never believed in putting labels on people, you know in fact when I did when I came out my first thing out of my mouth sold out show I said, well I guess you guys heard the big news they were like I was like I'm a vegetarian.
00:24:36.720 --> 00:24:40.559
So humor, you know, has to be there in the right places.
00:24:40.720 --> 00:24:45.759
People want to be set at ease and know that I think what I found out is mostly that you're okay.
00:24:46.079 --> 00:24:49.359
And I don't think I don't think I've taken a breath in in 30 years.
00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:51.200
I I want to talk about Shelly.
00:24:51.359 --> 00:25:02.400
Yeah I've met her she was on my old show and I know she's been through a lot and she's the first out gay country superstar woman uh you followed a few years later, but yeah talk about that.
00:25:02.480 --> 00:25:08.000
She obviously had a lot of support but I assume she did have some warnings because it has not been an easy road for her at all.
00:25:08.319 --> 00:25:19.839
Well our big joke is Lord if we've only known each other better we just would have gotten married and just you know and um lived in Tim and Faith's house, you know not our destiny, not our story.
00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:28.400
We've all learned from Shelly because she's when Shelly opened those floodgates she was you one thing you know about her, she was fully educated on where she was going and what she was doing.
00:25:28.559 --> 00:25:31.200
It's astounding the number of people that she's impressed or helped.
00:25:31.359 --> 00:25:36.240
And so she did reading, writing and rhythm, which was her foundation for 10 years.
00:25:36.400 --> 00:25:39.039
And I was on that show a couple of times at the Wild Horse.
00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:46.240
And I said okay if if we're going to make this big announcement and it's going to be as big as you guys say it's going to be, then I want to do something special with it.
00:25:46.319 --> 00:25:49.920
You know, it's it it's like we do music that matter, lives that matter.
00:25:50.240 --> 00:26:03.440
And for me it was about helping the community and also all these young artists that wanted to come to town and be, they were scared to death that they couldn't be like myself in a genre that they loved because of who they authentically were.
00:26:04.720 --> 00:26:18.720
That creates disaster and I wanted to create a platform that that was better that they could come sing about a girl if they wanted to sing about a boy if they wanted to and get a standing ovation and know what that feels like to be supported that fully.
00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:27.119
Which for me, I thought to myself what is something that I would have loved somebody to have told me that would have really helped me and it was really simple.
00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:30.240
You don't have to come to Nashville and tell everybody you're gay.
00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:31.680
You don't have to lead with that.
00:26:31.839 --> 00:26:35.680
You can start studying country music and know all the know all the characters.
00:26:35.920 --> 00:26:57.359
You can be the best songwriter that anybody's ever heard take voice lessons be the best version of yourself and let that authentic self lead to where you need to go and where you're gonna go and the first time I I actually a very successful artist which this is her story to tell so I won't name your names but walked to me she goes that advice was the best advice.
00:26:57.599 --> 00:27:07.039
So Reba gave me a lot of good advice I'm happy I'll be able to pay some of my original advice on but um it's just that's a lot of pressure to put on any job.
00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:14.799
You know, can't you just be the best at what you want to do and then the rest I believe will fall in place and you'll be a lot more confident about it.
00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:22.400
Yeah and a lot has been said about country music I think specifically mainstream country music because we've seen a lot of progress through the decades in music.
00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:38.960
I would say country it's pretty well known they're maybe the lacking lacking progress uh very slow to embrace and many artists have spoken out about it and sort of separated themselves from that mainstream country outlet such as like Marin Morris, Casey Musgraves, Miranda Lambert who like did the soundtrack for QueerEye.
00:27:39.200 --> 00:27:43.920
Do you see a difference between mainstream country radio versus the Nashville community?
00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:47.200
Because at the same time like I've had Chris Hausman on this show.
00:27:47.279 --> 00:27:51.279
We have the Cow gaze now coming out, uh Brooke Eden, uh Adam Mack.
00:27:51.440 --> 00:27:54.880
Are you hopeful with that or it's what's the difference actually living there?
00:27:55.519 --> 00:27:57.680
They did the authentic work and now they can do what they want.
00:27:57.839 --> 00:27:59.519
So it works.
00:27:59.680 --> 00:28:06.240
You know the the the mainstream dream I've come to believe it's by accident.
00:28:06.400 --> 00:28:08.079
You know we you don't know who's going to get there.
00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:09.680
There's no recipe for it.
00:28:09.839 --> 00:28:17.519
I believe that it's ordained in some ways um and I think the national community is great.
00:28:17.759 --> 00:28:21.599
It's kind of has always the people behind the scenes have always been uplifting.
00:28:21.759 --> 00:28:25.440
As we call it the Star Makers, you know, that is that is a locked door.
00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:39.759
You know I just did the country music radio seminar and the whole thing whole thing was to those guys about if there's an artist on your desk and it has gone through all the filters and it has gone through do you know what it takes for that that to get on your desk for this kid?
00:28:39.920 --> 00:28:42.000
He's done everything right or she.
00:28:42.160 --> 00:28:43.839
So it deserves to be heard.
00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:45.440
So at least give it a listen.
00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:47.759
And if you do that then it it is a win.
00:28:47.920 --> 00:28:53.279
If you like it say so but don't let it just sit there because that artist is black that artist is gay.
00:28:53.440 --> 00:28:54.960
How much information do you have on that artist?
00:28:55.119 --> 00:28:56.079
Do you know their story?
00:28:56.319 --> 00:29:08.559
So the roadblocks are stupid because we don't take the time to see the artist to see to be seen um but the win is that it got to the desk.
00:29:08.720 --> 00:29:10.640
So I that's how I like to see it.
00:29:10.720 --> 00:29:12.480
So we'll we'll take the wins.
00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:23.119
Yeah I'm curious did you watch or were you aware of the gay story Line on Nashville several years ago and how it kind of emulated your experience and what was your reaction to that?
00:29:23.359 --> 00:29:27.119
One thing I love about this book it one thing I love about this book it puts all the rumors to rest.
00:29:27.279 --> 00:29:29.359
It's like read the book you'll know the truth.
00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:35.839
There were several storylines that were Shelly and I both that ended up on the on the show.
00:29:36.079 --> 00:29:38.640
Some with our permission, some without but I didn't care.
00:29:38.799 --> 00:29:46.240
People were watching it at least they're at the very least they were exploring the storyline because it did, does and has happened here in Nashville.
00:29:46.400 --> 00:29:55.920
And I thought they got it really right with the in and outs of actual what's going on behind the scenes but when Chris Carmike who's my friend now but when Chris Carmike got hit in the head with a beer bottle that they that was my story.
00:29:56.319 --> 00:29:58.400
You know stabbed I got stabbed in the hand too.
00:29:58.480 --> 00:30:06.480
So it was like man I don't with your girlfriend haven't you heard the rumors I can't help it but she's sitting on my lap.
00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:08.319
Very dramatic show but very compelling.
00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:14.079
Yeah I I enjoyed that I'm gonna talk about one more happier thing and then we're gonna get some to some tougher stuff.
00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:26.559
Uh I want to talk about your long lasting relationship with Leanne Rhymes because she opened for you when she was a teenager and you collaborated recently and talk about your relationship through the last 30 plus years and where you are now and what she means to you.
00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:28.720
I can sum that up with one little story.
00:30:29.119 --> 00:30:39.440
I met Leanne through her daddy Wilbur Wilbur Rhimes and he would come around to the clubs my little girl sings you know she's too young to come in but you can run a microphone out the exit door and you just learn her songs.
00:30:39.599 --> 00:30:41.279
You know we did that.
00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:54.640
And I met her way early on and Bruce Roberts who another good friend that wrote a lot of Donna Summer hits we uh collaborated with her on a song called On the Side of Angels when she recorded that um which I just heard on the radio yesterday.
00:30:55.839 --> 00:30:57.200
But it's easy to love Leanne.
00:30:57.440 --> 00:31:07.920
I mean you know she's she shows great love and her mom and dad raised a pretty spectacular human and we're friends today because of of uh the love of hearts that we share.
00:31:08.319 --> 00:31:19.200
She was actually actually the opening act for me and then blue hit and then I was like I know I'm not putting all these butts in seats so her dad she came to me we were roller skating around the the the building and she said Mr.
00:31:19.359 --> 00:31:20.160
Ty we're gonna Mr.
00:31:20.319 --> 00:31:25.680
Ty we're we're gonna have to switch places I love that she said we switched places.
00:31:25.759 --> 00:31:27.839
I said I knew that was coming baby it's all good.
00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:46.079
So um so we continued you know we did more shows and uh she would come out she would come out and sing with me on what mattered most which is why I called her I said you know for this for the book for the volume one of the hits the leadoff has to be you and me um and I said but I'm not going to tell you what to do.
00:31:46.160 --> 00:31:49.279
You have full liberty just you know you go in and do what you want.
00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:59.200
That's which I did with all the artists and just gave them freedom you know you know Leanne knew what mattered most Ashley Rod loved man holding on when she was a kid.
00:31:59.279 --> 00:32:34.480
I said well put it in there man and they just you know humbled me and blew me away with uh with uh with my with my own songs beautiful relationship thank you for sharing that uh we're gonna get it a little deeper now one chapter that I was captivated by was kidding one chapter I really found captivating was uh Meet the Cowboy uh it touches on love making love and then being ghosted can you talk about why that was so important for you to include well who knew we were going to go into an air an era of dating apps where you could get ghosted easily where'd they go?
00:32:36.160 --> 00:32:49.920
It was pretty stupid when it comes to that but cowboy was um was the the first great love of my life and and deservedly you know I mean who wouldn't fall in love with a with a man who's an attorney who wears cowboy boots and a and a cowboy hat to court.
00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:52.000
I mean it's like that's right off that's right out of the movies.
00:32:52.160 --> 00:33:00.640
We're right back to the rodeo arena you know um classic class act he taught me a lot about love and you know how to be in it.
00:33:00.799 --> 00:33:04.400
And we're still friends by the way he did he's still we're still good friends.
00:33:04.720 --> 00:33:09.599
I said the gift that you gave me was to calm down you know that this music thing doesn't happen.
00:33:09.759 --> 00:33:14.319
It's not everything, you know and but those were not true words, you know, for me.
00:33:14.799 --> 00:33:16.000
It was absolutely everything.
00:33:16.160 --> 00:33:20.319
But bless his heart I think he was just trying to let me know that a lot of dreams can come true.
00:33:20.480 --> 00:33:22.079
There can be more than one dream on the table.
00:33:22.400 --> 00:33:47.200
Clearly he had not met my mother no again I'm I'm I'm learning um um I'm learning that these relationships were truly special and they were as special as I thought they were and coming back around to these human beings um later when life has happened and letting them know that their story matters as much or more than mine.
00:33:47.279 --> 00:33:54.880
But you know that to have a love like that right out of out of the gate and that lasted 10 years what a gift.
00:33:55.119 --> 00:33:57.039
Any way you look at it it was a it was a gift.
00:33:57.279 --> 00:34:07.759
Makes me happy sad bittersweet these relationships redefine us um another chapter that is I'm sure going to get a lot of attention and I'm very thankful that you shared it.
00:34:07.839 --> 00:34:20.559
I'm sure it was very hard it's simply titled Rape and this is at 21 it involved a Star Search staffer where it was also the first experience being introduced to drugs hard drugs.
00:34:21.119 --> 00:34:32.400
What was it like to revisit that experience and that abuse 40 plus years later and how it's shaped your life since it was it was the tunnel I had to dig the furthest on it I had to dig way down.
00:34:32.559 --> 00:34:34.639
It was I was shocked at how deep it was buried.
00:34:34.800 --> 00:34:43.840
The preacher was close by but that room was holding up the weight of my life and everything was every everything was attached to it.
00:34:44.079 --> 00:34:47.760
And I thought I'd successfully just well I'm never gonna think about that again.
00:34:47.920 --> 00:34:48.960
But that's not how it works.
00:34:49.360 --> 00:34:54.559
Um it wasn't about going back in there and trying to tear down somebody else it wasn't about going back in there.
00:34:54.639 --> 00:34:56.480
See these are things I thought would happen.
00:34:56.719 --> 00:35:11.360
It it was the exact opposite it wasn't about going back and trying to place blame, trying to have a big me to moment but I did have to land that something happened that I didn't volunteer for and that was very damaging.
00:35:11.599 --> 00:35:21.119
For years I for years I just said well hey I chose to go to the hotel room hey I chose to have the drink hey I chose to do the drugs um but that's all true.
00:35:21.360 --> 00:35:26.719
But for the men that I've talked to you know whatever the circumstances it's something we don't talk about.
00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:28.239
Men do not talk about this.
00:35:28.400 --> 00:35:30.480
And I was done with that.
00:35:30.880 --> 00:35:34.800
It was time to talk about it because it's scary but it's not shameful.
00:35:35.599 --> 00:35:37.599
It's hard but it's not degrading.
00:35:38.639 --> 00:35:46.079
And to remove those things that were showing up in places they didn't belong in my life was causing a huge confidence problem.
00:35:46.239 --> 00:35:51.199
I could walk in any room and and be a character, but I could never walk in a room be myself and be myself.
00:35:51.280 --> 00:35:53.119
And it didn't matter that I wasn't bright and shiny.
00:35:53.199 --> 00:35:58.800
I still deserve to be myself and my husband will say this you're not bringing the stage to the front door are you?
00:35:58.880 --> 00:36:12.239
I said no I won't fit but I when I was and I did my mental health stay and uh for four I did four months in Houston, Texas at at J Flowers Institute, which for me was all the rehabs put in one because I found answers there.
00:36:12.480 --> 00:36:18.800
Found I found enough answers that I could actually for the first time at least know where the room was to begin to talk about it.
00:36:18.960 --> 00:36:21.360
And it took it took my beautiful counselor Dr.
00:36:21.440 --> 00:36:24.079
Somerville almost to the end of the stay to get it out of me.
00:36:24.159 --> 00:36:25.840
And that was enough just to get it out.
00:36:26.000 --> 00:36:31.360
But then I slammed it back shut and I I I didn't have the tools to be the cleaning crew to go in there.
00:36:31.679 --> 00:36:41.360
And but I went back you know and I did and I went in with love and I went in with grace and I went in with I'm here to help, not to hurt you.
00:36:41.599 --> 00:36:48.719
And it was woo that was about that was about a we a whole week to ten days of of my life I had to live there.
00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:54.239
Um because you can't heal something or make it go if you don't understand it.
00:36:54.400 --> 00:36:56.239
And you can't put all the blame on yourself.
00:36:56.480 --> 00:36:58.480
Blame is the blame was not even in the room.
00:36:58.639 --> 00:37:02.559
It was just it was how do we clean and heal this space?
00:37:02.719 --> 00:37:04.239
Because this has happened to a lot of men.
00:37:04.400 --> 00:37:11.280
And if I'm going to walk into the world with this story, then how can this be a tool to give someone the courage to do the work?
00:37:12.480 --> 00:37:14.000
Because you shouldn't have to carry that around.
00:37:14.159 --> 00:37:16.239
I can't believe I did a lot of people do.
00:37:16.400 --> 00:37:17.199
Thank you for sharing that.
00:37:17.519 --> 00:37:24.960
Sure man but you know I look at all those rooms now and how it was driving my life and I actually have fallen in love with them because they let me in to understand it.
00:37:25.039 --> 00:37:27.519
I talk in a lot of analogies because it works for me.
00:37:27.679 --> 00:37:32.800
It helps me understand, you know, what lived in me against my will and what's there a choice now.
00:37:33.199 --> 00:38:00.480
Thank you for sharing that you are definitely going to help a lot of people and that experience really did redefine your life as we mentioned it was your first introduction to drugs and you were very candid in the book about drug addiction, relapses, rehabs, which you just mentioned and we briefly touched on it earlier the New Year's Eve in 2020 suicide attempt that led to you writing the song God of the Gun and you have a chapter in the book called Armageddon which is takes you through COVID and you had a massive tour that was canceled.
00:38:00.639 --> 00:38:15.599
You lost money for that and that's when you relapsed what is your message for those in the depths of this despair as you were at that point thinking there's there's no way out well if you believe the world is coming to an end and that's what you're being told it might not be true.
00:38:16.880 --> 00:38:21.920
It's it was super alone.
00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:23.599
And I think a lot of people feel this way.
00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:26.639
If you were on your own then you were on your own on steroids.
00:38:26.800 --> 00:38:36.079
If you had family and friends but you were you had to take care of your mama but you were doing it by Zoom because merely going to get a hug from someone might kill them are you?
00:38:36.400 --> 00:38:39.199
I mean we've all dissected this at this point.
00:38:41.519 --> 00:39:01.679
It's like okay there's nobody and look at it across the street at I lived in a condo downtown here in Nashville where balconies were full of flowers and people and they were boarded up and all knowledge that you have about all the work that you may have done on yourself and I've talked to a lot of of recovering folks now and it was staggering because it almost gave it an excuse not to matter.
00:39:01.840 --> 00:39:05.440
Well hell you know if it's going like this and might as well have some fun.
00:39:05.679 --> 00:39:08.800
It's stinking thinking at its very best.
00:39:09.679 --> 00:39:19.280
As my as as my mother in love, we say mother in love, not mother-in-law, she goes, oh yeah she goes the devil didn't have to have a license to enter your house he didn't even have to have a gun.
00:39:19.440 --> 00:39:27.760
He just came on in because I was like yes like it also became a time of for people understood.
00:39:28.159 --> 00:39:30.800
It was no surprise it wasn't even a surprise to me.
00:39:30.960 --> 00:39:32.719
It was just something that was going to happen.
00:39:32.880 --> 00:39:37.039
It's like it was like you know it was the only time in my life I've ever blamed anything.
00:39:37.199 --> 00:39:43.920
I worked my ass off to get back here to have this tour, this made for TV movie, all this stuff I victimized myself big time.
00:39:44.079 --> 00:39:50.639
And so it was my big F you to all of it, which I probably needed to say for a long time, but I didn't have the tools to do that.
00:39:50.800 --> 00:39:55.039
What I did have the tools to do was get in a pickup truck that remembered right where to go.
00:39:55.280 --> 00:40:15.920
If you'd asked me I couldn't have told you but it's like when you walk somewhere and you ended up where you're supposed to be my uh my my DNA in that moment just drove me right to that that cherry pie as you'll read in the book uh it was so comfortable it was spooky uncomfortable how the the the dominoes were falling and what's even scarier is is to be aware of it.
00:40:16.079 --> 00:40:21.039
And it's not supposed to be comfortable uh you know there's should be fucking full of fear.
00:40:21.199 --> 00:40:24.800
But looking back on it all I wasn't because it was an old friend.
00:40:24.880 --> 00:40:26.480
It was the one thing I ran into for pain.
00:40:26.639 --> 00:40:32.000
Who the hell wants to sit in that kind of pain and that also led to who the hell wants to be living here in this.
00:40:32.559 --> 00:40:49.039
And man I tell you what if you have any kind of spiritual connection the angels will show up y'all they were they were busting my butt and and I'm grateful for it, you know it also gave me a a a beautiful chance to to go to my my dear dear sister and first cousin and have a moment about her son.
00:40:49.199 --> 00:41:02.320
He wasn't an addict he just was at a party somebody gave him a pill you know and it killed him and you know and uh and a lot of times in families you don't want to talk about those things it's just too hard.
00:41:02.480 --> 00:41:25.519
And you know it it opened up a conversation and you know years later um from a moment that saved my life and you will never tell me that kid wasn't standing in my living room because he was you know wasn't high at that point and did a yeah I told the I told Carrie our editor I said you know these people gonna think I'm crazy and I am said but there are angels.
00:41:25.679 --> 00:41:27.199
There are phone calls that happen.
00:41:27.360 --> 00:41:42.960
There is greater than you out there and I have experienced it not in ways I've but I've ever chosen to but now that I have I'm gonna absolutely give it the the credit the honor and the and the praise that it it's supposed to have because I'm really grateful to be here.
00:41:43.280 --> 00:41:44.400
We're all grateful you're here.
00:41:44.559 --> 00:42:06.960
We're gonna lighten up on our final 10 minutes or so thank you for being so candid and revealing uh hard pivot you have a very fun story about coming out to share in the early 90s almost 20 years before you came out to the world or more than what was that like you don't have to come out to share she just know she she knows share knows everything.
00:42:07.119 --> 00:42:18.559
Yeah so she's probably like that poor little gay cowboy trying to fool me she was wonderful you know she's she's a mother very mothering and I was there to write songs.
00:42:18.639 --> 00:42:31.760
I think all of us were I think we get managed to write a few songs but the camaraderie between those people you know where you got Brenda Russell and Alana Miles and Cher and Tommy Matola at that time I didn't know who any of those people were.
00:42:31.920 --> 00:42:36.880
I knew country music and Bruce Roberts who's written so many hits we're we're great friends today.
00:42:37.039 --> 00:43:24.000
He said y'all know this tomorrow tomorrow's tomorrow's Todd's birthday was my 30th birthday and all Mother Cher needed to hear was well that calls for a trip to Paris who gets that you know so I yeah people will love that story with her permission of course but yeah so on my 30th birthday we she hired a car we we drove from Bordeaux, France to to Paris and she had the Eiffel Tower opened up at midnight and we drank Cristal champagne that was my first experience with expensive champagne and um they're right it just tastes better I love that and you also are you also have chapters about two of your other loves in your life you were in an 11 year relationship with a man named Matt and you are currently married to a man named Alex very congratulations to that.
00:43:24.239 --> 00:43:24.559
Thank you.
00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:39.599
You recently sung with your husband a song called Big Hopes you also have a chapter Some Enchanted evening in the book about your husband at 63 years old is your life enchanted right now very much so and I had to learn to live with that because I didn't know how.
00:43:39.679 --> 00:43:42.400
I had to learn to live in it and be in it and trust it.
00:43:42.480 --> 00:43:45.440
And you know I lived my whole life thinking the other shoe was going to drop.
00:43:45.679 --> 00:43:47.920
Well all that means now is I've got a matching set of shoes.
00:43:48.079 --> 00:43:53.519
Alex he's younger than me and I've never even thought about dating you know kind of average like everybody.
00:43:53.760 --> 00:44:09.039
I met Alex and uh at a dinner party through a friend he had a beard down here and he's I I thought he was 40 or something He came in a package that's been around a long time.
00:44:09.199 --> 00:44:10.960
I said you know, it was the first person in my life.
00:44:11.119 --> 00:44:13.840
Maybe it's where I was in my life, that he didn't look through me.
00:44:13.920 --> 00:44:15.679
He looked he looked right into me.
00:44:15.760 --> 00:44:17.360
And that was n you know.
00:44:17.920 --> 00:44:20.880
Isn't it interesting it was a the first thing my mother recognized?
00:44:20.960 --> 00:44:24.159
Because my mom, you know, they had their problems, but my dad loves my mom.
00:44:24.559 --> 00:44:28.880
She said, it's the first person you've been with that looks at you like your dad looked at me.
00:44:29.119 --> 00:44:30.320
And I knew exactly what she meant.
00:44:30.639 --> 00:44:31.679
Nobody ever looked at me that way.
00:44:31.920 --> 00:44:33.440
So Is it fairy tale?
00:44:33.679 --> 00:44:34.719
Hell yes it is.
00:44:35.119 --> 00:44:36.559
I haven't had a lot of those, you know.
00:44:36.800 --> 00:44:39.519
I know entertainment it looks that way, but no, I haven't.
00:44:39.679 --> 00:44:43.360
And um and he thought he thought I did voiceovers for a living.
00:44:43.440 --> 00:44:44.400
And I I love that too.
00:44:44.559 --> 00:44:48.719
It's like, you know, but he he drives me crazy, and that's the way it's supposed to be.
00:44:48.880 --> 00:44:56.400
And you know, and I don't want to pick his underwear up off the floor, but my counselor said, You waited your whole life to pick those underwear up, so just shut up.
00:44:57.760 --> 00:44:59.199
I was like, You're right.
00:45:00.239 --> 00:45:03.760
So happy is not perfect, but I've never had this version of happy.
00:45:03.920 --> 00:45:05.840
It's it's easy for it not to be perfect.
00:45:06.320 --> 00:45:07.599
No, no fairy tale is perfect.
00:45:07.679 --> 00:45:08.159
You deserve it.
00:45:08.239 --> 00:45:09.599
You deserve this fairy tale.
00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:14.639
I I I learned more than I thought I I should be the teacher in this, but I have been the constant student.
00:45:14.800 --> 00:45:16.400
I had no idea I didn't know how to listen.
00:45:16.559 --> 00:45:17.280
Imagine that.
00:45:17.519 --> 00:45:19.360
You know, but I've learned to listen differently.
00:45:19.440 --> 00:45:22.320
I've learned to listen with intent and not advice.
00:45:22.559 --> 00:45:26.400
I've I've also learned that it's it's okay if you don't I'm Southern.
00:45:26.480 --> 00:45:27.360
I want to talk about everything.
00:45:27.679 --> 00:45:33.360
In the South, we talk about we we we put shove it all under the rug, and when it comes time to talk about it, we just buy a new rug.
00:45:33.599 --> 00:45:38.239
So I've I've learned now that that rug is perfectly fine.
00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:42.719
Um He comes from a family of commun you know, they communicate pretty well.
00:45:43.119 --> 00:45:44.800
They may scream when they do it, but they do it.
00:45:44.880 --> 00:45:50.079
I always had a great family, and I I the gift is that I have it even a great extended family.
00:45:50.639 --> 00:45:50.960
Beautiful.
00:45:51.440 --> 00:45:57.679
So um yeah, you know, and most of the time when I'm talking about I want to go this is not me.
00:45:58.159 --> 00:45:58.800
It's beautiful.
00:45:58.880 --> 00:45:59.599
No, you deserve it.
00:45:59.840 --> 00:46:02.079
Yeah, music, but Lord, I'm mercy.
00:46:03.119 --> 00:46:06.000
Ty, we'll wrap it up with this show, The Tangle.
00:46:06.159 --> 00:46:11.679
I always ask people what they're currently tangled in that they're loving, immersing themselves in, reading, binge watching.
00:46:11.840 --> 00:46:13.280
What fun activity are you loving?
00:46:13.360 --> 00:46:18.880
I also ask people what is frustrating that they need to get untangled from, but I think you've untangled a lot with this book.
00:46:19.199 --> 00:46:20.880
So what are you loving right now?
00:46:21.599 --> 00:46:24.960
I am actually loving the business that I'm in for the first time.
00:46:25.119 --> 00:46:28.159
I'm also I used to like build things with my dad.
00:46:28.320 --> 00:46:35.440
All of a sudden I'm I I just refurbished my grandmother's rocking chairs, and it was surprising how slowly I did it, just in detail.
00:46:35.599 --> 00:46:37.519
I'm O C D, A Z H D, all of it.
00:46:37.840 --> 00:46:38.719
I'm the alphabet.
00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:48.480
But projects I learned to sew this last year because it suggested it might help me as creative and help me with anxiety because I you nobody wants to be on a lot of pills their whole life.
00:46:48.639 --> 00:46:52.800
And you know, probably our first big fight was if you sew one more of my shirts.
00:46:54.159 --> 00:46:55.840
I gotta have something to practice.
00:46:56.719 --> 00:46:57.760
So domestic.
00:46:58.079 --> 00:47:00.639
Because the good one buys me a bunch of shirts to practice on.
00:47:00.719 --> 00:47:04.079
So do you guys have any favorite shows you watch together?
00:47:05.440 --> 00:47:08.960
That's a hard one for us, you know, because we're usually fighting over the remote at bedtime.
00:47:09.039 --> 00:47:13.920
But occasionally we settle on um I like you know, I I like gothic sword fights.
00:47:15.280 --> 00:47:21.840
He's he's all over he's all over the place with and the thing also aggravates me, he'll start something and won't finish it.
00:47:21.920 --> 00:47:22.880
So with the TV show.
00:47:23.039 --> 00:47:24.000
I gotta finish it, you know?
00:47:24.079 --> 00:47:28.159
And I won't ever go to a movie with him because he talks about how stupid the movie is the whole time.
00:47:28.320 --> 00:47:31.440
And I'm like, and did uh two weeks later, he'll go, that was a really great movie.
00:47:31.519 --> 00:47:35.679
I'd be like, I don't Aw, I love that.
00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:37.119
Opposites attract.
00:47:37.760 --> 00:47:39.119
Ty, this has been wonderful.
00:47:39.199 --> 00:47:46.559
I assume you'll be touring and touring the book and playing, and you're doing a volume two of your 30 um greatest hits c um collaborations.
00:47:46.960 --> 00:47:47.920
A lot of surprises coming.
00:47:48.079 --> 00:47:48.320
Wow.
00:47:48.400 --> 00:47:48.719
Yeah.
00:47:48.880 --> 00:47:56.400
So um I I probably should be, you know, like Tanya said, you should probably should be retired by now, but I'm nowhere near that.
00:47:56.480 --> 00:47:59.280
You know, we're talking about tours and babies at this point, so let's go.
00:47:59.599 --> 00:48:00.480
Let's go.
00:48:00.800 --> 00:48:01.920
This has been such a pleasure.
00:48:02.079 --> 00:48:06.400
I really appreciate you being so candid, and I'm just so thankful that you took this time to speak with me.
00:48:07.440 --> 00:48:08.559
Ash has been my favorite.
00:48:08.639 --> 00:48:09.360
This has been, you know.
00:48:09.679 --> 00:48:10.480
Aww, Ty.
00:48:10.800 --> 00:48:11.440
So sweet.
00:48:16.639 --> 00:48:17.840
Thank you so much, Ty.
00:48:18.079 --> 00:48:19.840
Remember to get his book, What Mattered Most.
00:48:19.920 --> 00:48:22.559
It's a beautiful read, and make sure to follow him wherever you can.
00:48:22.719 --> 00:48:27.360
He is always touring, he's having book events, and he is a great follow, a great man.
00:48:27.599 --> 00:48:28.800
Now, Tangled in Song.
00:48:28.880 --> 00:48:30.400
What song am I tangled this week?
00:48:30.639 --> 00:48:33.280
So, this is an artist that I've enjoyed for many years.
00:48:33.440 --> 00:48:36.480
I think I came across her maybe 2006 or so.
00:48:36.719 --> 00:48:38.000
She's a Canadian artist.
00:48:38.079 --> 00:48:42.159
Uh, she's not super big in the United States, but I've been following her off and on.
00:48:42.320 --> 00:48:46.559
You know, sometimes you lose track of artists, and I'm glad that I found track of her again.
00:48:46.719 --> 00:48:50.239
Her name is Jill Barber, and she's released several albums over the years.
00:48:50.400 --> 00:48:52.320
She kind of bounces between genres.
00:48:52.559 --> 00:48:58.239
So I fell in love with her album For All Time, which I think came out in 2006.
00:48:58.400 --> 00:49:10.480
And I had that album going on repeat for months, and it's such a beautiful, vibey type of Americana, slow burn, country-ish, but not totally country album.
00:49:10.559 --> 00:49:11.599
It's uh it's a treat.
00:49:11.760 --> 00:49:17.840
But I want to talk about an album that I just came across because I was doing some research on like whatever happened to Jill Barber.
00:49:17.920 --> 00:49:20.800
I know that she's big in Canada and she pops up in social media.
00:49:20.960 --> 00:49:23.840
So the thing with her is that she also does a lot of jazz music.
00:49:24.000 --> 00:49:28.800
She also does a lot of French music, and I'm not a big jazz fan, but I love her voice.
00:49:28.880 --> 00:49:29.760
It is so distinct.
00:49:29.840 --> 00:49:32.559
So I kind of lost track over the years with her jazz albums.
00:49:32.719 --> 00:49:38.880
But I when I was looking her up, I read that she released an album in 2023 called Homemaker.
00:49:39.039 --> 00:49:41.760
And I read about it, and it sounded like something I would like.
00:49:41.920 --> 00:49:51.039
It was a starker kind of bare skeleton production compared to her other albums, where it's focusing mainly on her being a mom and a wife.
00:49:51.280 --> 00:49:56.800
And I was like, oh, I love those simple, uh familial Americana type of albums.
00:49:56.960 --> 00:50:08.079
So I downloaded it and I listened to it, and I was so excited because this is like a return to the original for all time Jill Barber that I fell in love with almost 20 years ago, or more than 20 years ago.
00:50:08.320 --> 00:50:12.480
I also messaged her saying, Oh, I just discovered your homemaker album, and I'm so glad that I did.
00:50:12.559 --> 00:50:13.119
It's so beautiful.
00:50:13.199 --> 00:50:13.920
And she thanked me.
00:50:14.000 --> 00:50:14.880
So that was very sweet.
00:50:14.960 --> 00:50:16.719
But I really encourage you to download this album.
00:50:16.800 --> 00:50:20.079
It's very vulnerable, it's very honest, it's uh raw.
00:50:20.239 --> 00:50:27.679
It's about, again, being a uh a homemaker, a wife, a a mother, and coming to terms with the difficulties, the highs and lows of that.
00:50:27.840 --> 00:50:31.039
And the song that I want to talk about is called Homemaker, the title track.
00:50:31.199 --> 00:50:36.639
And the lyrics in Park go, dishes won't do themselves, dust upon the shelves, and times impossible to find.
00:50:36.800 --> 00:50:40.559
Is anybody gonna help tidy up these toys or the clutter in my mind?
00:50:40.800 --> 00:50:43.039
If all you want to do is run, I won't tell anyone.
00:50:43.199 --> 00:50:44.239
Your secret fantasy.
00:50:44.400 --> 00:50:46.800
If all you want to do is cry, I won't even ask why.
00:50:46.880 --> 00:50:48.800
I'll just hold the box of tissues for you.
00:50:49.039 --> 00:50:50.400
Homemaker, it's okay.
00:50:50.480 --> 00:50:53.599
If today the only thing you make is you make it through the day.
00:50:53.840 --> 00:51:03.280
I know so many people, so many moms, so many parents can relate to this song where you're just trying to keep your head above water and keep things flowing in the right direction and not have chaos overtake.
00:51:03.440 --> 00:51:09.360
Uh, I'm not a parent, but I I love these intimate stories of family and um parenthood.
00:51:09.440 --> 00:51:10.559
So give this song a listen.
00:51:10.639 --> 00:51:14.000
It's beautiful, the whole album, Homemaker, by Jill Barber.
00:51:14.480 --> 00:51:17.519
All right, my friends, I'll be back next week with another fantastic guest.
00:51:17.599 --> 00:51:21.519
I'm sure many of you know him, especially my LGBTQ followers.
00:51:21.599 --> 00:51:26.639
Uh, his name is Eric Williams, and he also hosts an incredible podcast that I'm sure many of you love.
00:51:26.719 --> 00:51:28.639
It's called It's a Gay Ass Podcast.
00:51:28.880 --> 00:51:30.400
We go everywhere in this conversation.
00:51:30.480 --> 00:51:31.360
It was a really fun one.
00:51:31.440 --> 00:51:32.239
So stay tuned for that.
00:51:32.400 --> 00:51:33.920
Until then, you take care of yourselves.
00:51:34.000 --> 00:51:35.679
I will see and speak with you soon.