WEBVTT
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All right, welcome, welcome, welcome to this episode of Marketing Spotlight.
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I am so excited for today's guests.
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I'm always excited, but I'm a little especially excited today to talk to Rachel Lee.
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Um, I can't remember how we got connected, but if you are watching the video, you can see her whole getup and her background.
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And I think as soon as I saw it when we hopped on Zoom together, I was like, I'm going to love this person.
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Like, this is totally my human.
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For those of you who can't see, there's a giant Pikachu back there.
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There's a lot of light and pink.
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Uh, there's another Pikachu.
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Uh, there's like an electric guitar hanging on the wall, not a literal one, but a cutout of one.
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It is so much fun.
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Love it, love it, love it.
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Thank you so much for being here, Rachel.
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Um, Rachel, I won't tell you too much.
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I know she's a branding strategist and graphic designer.
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Um, and so that's how we got connected.
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So without me saying anything more, Rachel, I want you to tell the good people who you are and what you do.
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Oh, well, thank you for having me on this call.
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I feel like you always hype people up.
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I'm like, oh geez, I gotta keep up with that introduction.
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Well, I'll do my best.
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Um, hi, everybody.
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If anyone can, you can, Rachel.
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I appreciate that.
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Um, well, my jam is personal branding.
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I do have a background in art and design.
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So the thing that most people come to me for is helping them capture their vibe in something that they can see.
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I especially um love working with personal brands because it's not just a conversation about how we can position you strategically to get you in front of your audience.
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It's more of a conversation around who are you?
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What makes you cool?
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And how can we really draw that out so that people can see it?
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And I feel like when I start to talk to people about branding in this perspective, they get excited because it's like I give them that blank check of, oh, you mean I could just be whatever I want to be?
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And I'm like, heck yes, like that is what my work is about.
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And I do that for personal brands, entrepreneurs specifically, but also for small businesses who want to infuse a little bit more fire, spice, and sparkle into the way that their brand feels.
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So I like to say I help my clients with all of those things.
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Um, but yes, uh, for those of you who are tuning in audibly, you got to check out the video recording because I've got a lot of stuff going on in my background.
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It's a lot of fun, yes.
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And I I love something that I think just clicked for me as you were talking is the fact that you give, like you said, you give people the freedom to just be who they are in business.
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And I think it's ironic that a lot of us, I know for myself, like I went into business so that I wouldn't have anyone telling me what to do.
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And I know that's true for a lot of us, and yet we end up l having other people tell us what to do, and or we think we need someone else to tell us what to do, especially when it comes to something like branding and marketing and how you communicate with your clients and your prospects.
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There it can feel like there's one way to do it.
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Um, and it has to be the right way, and if it's not the right way, you're gonna fail and end up living in a van down by the river, right?
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So there's yeah, it's it's it's actually quite sad.
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Like I remember when I first started business, I originally went in thinking exactly that.
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I'm like, I'm gonna be my own boss, it's gonna be so fun, it's gonna be a fantastic experience.
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And then the moment that I actually dove in and started to realize, oh, geez, I have to do my own marketing.
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There's so many things attached to it.
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But there's this one thing that I noticed that I didn't like, which is the fact that there's this weird, unspoken professional standard that we feel that we have to comply by in order for people to trust us and do business with us.
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And even though, yes, of course, professionalism is very important, we should treat people with kindness and courtesy and respect, all of the above.
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We are not in the corporate world anymore.
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We run the show.
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No one's telling you that you have to dress this way because this is your business.
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You don't have a manager breathing down your neck because you decided to wear the wrong shoes to work today.
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I will I also work on Zoom.
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So what I wear on the bottom actually also doesn't matter.
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But um, yeah, isn't that so weird that we feel this pressure to show up a certain way, even though technically we are our own boss?
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So weird.
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It is weird, yeah.
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And I get it.
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Like I've been there too.
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I've been the whole, like, oh, I'm a business owner now and I don't actually know anything about owning and running a business.
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So I'd better get some advice.
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And there's advice, and then there's yeah, people like you who work with you instead of just giving you a blanket, this is what everyone has to do.
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Um, and I want to zero in on something you said because you mentioned the the keyword trust, which is what branding and marketing is all about, is earning people's trust.
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And you said that we feel people won't trust us if we're not super professional.
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And again, I get that.
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Ben there done that.
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Um, especially as a woman, there's a whole other layer to that.
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Um, but I do think if you show up as yourself authentically, that's when people trust you.
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If you try to put on this corporate veneer and it doesn't fit who you are or how you want to work with people, that's there's gonna be a disconnect and they'll sense it, especially if your marketing and your branding is super corporate, and then they talk to you and you've got pink hair and pink and chew in the background and all these other things, and they're like, wait a minute, that that is not the expectation that was set for me.
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So um I I love that you encourage people to be who they are because that is how you build trust with people.
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Thank you.
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I totally agree with you.
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I feel like it's also unsustainable to try to put up this front.
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And then when that's not actually who you are, you always have to remind yourself, oh no, wait, I am professional, Rachel, now.
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You know, you have to keep switching those hats.
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And at some point, something's gonna slip, or you just get so tired that um you just don't want to do it anymore.
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Like I went through that for the first few years of my business because I thought I needed to show up a certain way.
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So I had professional Rachel on.
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I wore literally the exact same clothes I wore to my full-time job, but just you know, on Zoom or to networking events.
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I branded my business the same semi-corporate way.
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Of course, I ran a creative agency, so I tried to have fun with it, but I remember when I created my branding, the script I even told myself was, okay, this is creative, but don't be too creative because you're gonna scare people away.
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Isn't that so strange?
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But yeah, like I got to this snapping point with my business where I just felt like I was lying to people.
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There's no other way of saying it where I would show up to a networking event, suit and tie, you know, actually putting up a front, being like, hey, like you gotta you gotta like invest your time and energy with me because I can take you the distance.
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The whole nine yards um when on the back end, I was like, ah, like this doesn't feel authentic to me.
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I don't want to be this pushy person.
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I want to just grow with my clients.
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I just want to be there to support like the energy was off, the way it was presented was off, um, to the point where I just stopped showing up because everything just felt so bad.
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And the personal branding thing only happened when I decided to burn everything to the ground and be like, you know what?
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Screw it.
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I'm just gonna show up as me.
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And if I scare everyone off, nothing was happening now anyway.
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So I'm not losing out on anything if I decide to do the crazy thing.
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Um, thank God it worked out pretty good.
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You know, knock on wood.
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Um, it turned out pretty well.
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I'm a few years into this new phase of my business now.
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But if we met in the earlier years, you would be like, Who's who's this girl?
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Completely different, yeah.
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And I again I latched onto something you said that I want to talk about more because I'm also a creative person.
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Yeah, and I think when I started um my business, you know, SEO was a thing.
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It wasn't as big a thing as it is now.
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For those of you listening who don't know what I'm talking about, SEO stands for search engine optimization, which basically means making Google your friend so you can show up when people are looking for you.
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And there's a whole science behind that, um, and art really, because there's a lot of guessw.
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So I, you know, long story short, I figured out blogging and SEO are too intertwined to do one without the other.
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I really resisted learning SEO and then stumbled my way into it and actually found that it's fascinating.
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And one of the reasons I resisted it was because I thought it would stifle my creativity.
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I thought it would tell me what to write when I thought I should be writing something else for myself or for this other client.
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And I actually found the opposite to be true.
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I actually found that by researching what people are looking for, that gives me so much more information and inspiration.
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I get lots of inspiration when I do keyword research and I see what other people are talking about in my industry and related industries.
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It's like, oh yeah, people are asking about this and I can talk about such and such, and they don't understand how this works, so I can explain it to them, and I'm off off and running.
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Um, so I wonder if you've had any similar kind of experiences where you think something will stifle your creativity and it actually, whether it's giving your creativity parameters or actually giving you inspiration, is there any because there is certain parameters you have to follow in in branding.
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So how do you apply that?
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Yes, absolutely.
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So I always say that when it comes to branding, the best rule of thumb is less is more.
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I feel like people tend to go way over the top with their colors, with their graphics, because it has to be pretty, right?
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Like that's what people think when they see the branding.
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But if I were to be honest, even from a design perspective, the number one rule of your brand is to make it accessible first before anything else.
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Because if people can't read your logo or your content, what are we doing?
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Right.
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Like they could get the vibe, but if they're not getting the information, your graphics, your vibe, it's not doing what it's doing, which is it's supposed to support your message, support you in delivering it and getting it in front of your customers.
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So um, this is kind of even like what I was taught when I was in art school, where my teacher all the time would always emphasize okay, yes, we know you're in art school, we know you're studying design, we know you want to make this pretty, but all of that is useless if people cannot read the content that you're actually putting on the page.
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So when it comes to branding, one of the biggest parameters is accessibility.
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We got to make sure that people are able to read it and understand it.
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Um, are people getting a migraine by reading the words because you put it on like a weirdly colored background or picked a font that just is completely illegible?
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So there are certain parameters with that.
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I say the number one rule is definitely it has to be accessible.
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Um, and then the second thing, I think it goes down to um every brand specifically also has boundaries.
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And it's important to set what those are so then you don't get into a situation where you make a decision for your brand where you go off brand.
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So, for example, even for my brands, I have certain parameters around it's playful, but not to the point where it's juvenile.
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And when I make certain creative decisions for my brand, because I'm always tinkering with it and growing and evolving it, I will come across some situations where I'm deciding to try this new style of post, for example.
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And as I'm creating the graphics, I'm doing the words and the visuals, and I always run it through one last uh brand check before I put it out into the world and I ask myself these questions.
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Does it feel playful or does it cross that line?
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And if it does, I'm gonna have to pull it back a little bit.
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So that way, um, when you set these parameters for yourself, it kind of ensures that everything you put out, even if it's the first time you're ever trying it for your brand, it still falls within those parameters.
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So you don't end up in a situation where you put something out there and it's so far left field that people don't recognize it anymore.
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Um, so that's something that I always recommend for people is that boundaries are your friend.
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I think people might think that it's restrictive because it's like a box, but it's actually very helpful to help you um kind of paint between the lines so you're not left guessing because most of the time that we lose is spent making these tiny little decisions about which shade of blue should I use.
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And then before you know it, three hours are gone and your posts never ended up going out.
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So boundaries are your friend, is what I would have to say.
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Yes, 100%.
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And I do want to ask you about something in particular because I know you posted on LinkedIn, you were kind of going through this branding process for yourself, and you were that kind of brought up a lot for you as far as you know, your brand, but also, oh, this process actually works.
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So can you take us through a little bit of what that was like to take your own system?
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Um, first of all, I do want to say less is more, 100%.
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That is so true for writing as well as for the graphics, but I'm on a tangent now, so I'll bring it back to what I was talking about.
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Um, which is yeah, let you to talk about that process that you went through, your own branding process for your own brand and what that was like.
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Oh, isn't it so cool when you get to take yourself through your process and drink your own Kool-Aid and realize, oh wow, now I know why my clients hire me because it's really hard to do it for yourself.
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Yeah, it is.
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Um, yeah, like it's funny because I specialize in one week brand setups for my clients.
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There, there's a system, there's a process for it.
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Everything is bookended between two calls, and we literally get everything done in a week.
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So I thought, you know, the expert here was like, oh, I could just run myself through my own system.
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It'll be pretty straightforward.
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It did not take one week, it did not take one month.
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It is month.
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Let me see.
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I said that I would start this endeavor at the end of last year.
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It is mid-March right now, and I'm just rounding up the final pieces to do the big official launch at the end of this month.
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So you do the math, it's been a hot second.
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And I would have to say that even though I did run myself through my own process, I realized that there were many moments where I was just way up in my own head about my own stuff.
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Because, and I'm not sure if this is something that's just specifically related to branding, but sometimes, even though technically, yes, I have the skills to execute, I have all the strategy to back it up.
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But when you work on your own stuff, there are some moments where you're just so caught up in your own head, your insecurities, you start second guessing yourself.
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You start asking, is this actually right?
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Like, should I be doing it?
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You start shitting all over yourself.
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Um, and the process ends up dragging on for quite some time.
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So I'm very thankful to say I do have a business partner that I tag team this with.
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So when I start getting up in my own head, I'll pull my business partner over to be like, all right, I'm working on this, need your opinion on it.
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And he'll stare at it for a second and be like, let's do this one.
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And it makes it so much easier for me.
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Um, but there's a lot of pieces that go uh together with the rebrand where um we ran through our own process of doing our messaging and our visuals, but outside of that, which is the signature process that we do for our clients, we also have to set up our own site.
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There are digital products we had to create.
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Um, we're lining things up to shoot some video masterclasses.
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There's a bunch of things that are outside of what we typically offer to our clients that we're working on for ourselves.
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So therefore, we are about three months into the rebrand.
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And thank goodness um we are gonna cross the finish line very soon.
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I'm slightly, slightly cursing myself for giving myself a hard deadline and just telling the world, I'm like March 30th is the date, guys.
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Like, no excuses for you or for us.
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We're gonna get it out.
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So I'm uh apprehensively eyeing my calendar every day, like checking off the days of all right, like T minus nine days too much.
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Um, but it's it's been fun though.
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I I make it sound horrible, but it's been a very fun process.
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And I feel like I learned a lot about myself just running through it, um, figuring out where are some kinks where I might want to watch out for um and you know, reapply it to the way that I support my clients.
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So it's it's been a good time.
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Awesome.
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I love that.
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Yeah, I also have a series of questions I like to ask my clients when I onboard them, which is essentially getting to their brand voice guidelines.
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And yeah, going through those questions, we're like, man, these are hard to answer.
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It is so much harder to do it for yourself.
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Um, and I always tell my people too, that's a lot of the value that I provide is having that outside perspective and being able to see it through a someone who's not you, but also be closer to understanding what this looks like to your prospects, to your ideal clients.
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Um, and yes, I do want to go back to what you said about uh less is more, because that is so true of writing.
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And I feel like the more I learn, and I'm still learning this, like what not to put in your writing and how much you need to cut out when you're editing.
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Um, that's why I always edit, that's why I always write it and leave it alone for at least 24 hours and then come back and edit it.
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Because that's when I go, I don't need this word, I don't need this sentence, this whole paragraph is useless.
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That's when uh it gets a lot shorter than the first draft.
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I think um Stephen King said his second draft is always like 10% shorter than his first draft, because that's when you go, you know, and you're just cutting stuff out.
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So yeah, keep it, keep it super simple.
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Uh it is it is so important in branding.
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Um, I do have a question.
00:18:06.640 --> 00:18:11.839
I I usually ask my guests this at the beginning, and I got so excited that we jumped into other stuff.
00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:15.279
But I do always like to know how did you get started in this?
00:18:15.440 --> 00:18:19.039
What brought you into the world of branding and graphic design?
00:18:20.480 --> 00:18:23.759
I like to call myself an accidental entrepreneur.
00:18:24.079 --> 00:18:27.680
I did not grow up in a family of entrepreneurs.
00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:30.640
I didn't go to business school to study this.
00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:32.640
Um, I was the art kid.
00:18:32.799 --> 00:18:39.599
Uh I was that kid who always was doodling on her test paper, not fully paying attention in class.
00:18:39.920 --> 00:18:45.599
I fully went the uh pursued my passion in studying design in art school.
00:18:45.759 --> 00:18:48.880
And I just knew that I wanted to make things for a living.
00:18:49.039 --> 00:18:50.880
It was pretty straightforward for me.
00:18:51.039 --> 00:18:59.680
And of course, what they teach you in school is oh, if you want to make things, go become a graphic designer, work at a marketing company, you'll have a great time.
00:18:59.759 --> 00:19:01.680
And, you know, I drank that Kool-Aid.
00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:03.680
So I went the whole route.
00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:14.640
I worked full time as a graphic designer at a local marketing company and thought that I would be happy because uh they gave me this big shiny computer, the software, it moved so fast.
00:19:14.799 --> 00:19:17.599
I was pushing pixels every single day.
00:19:17.839 --> 00:19:20.559
Um, but I realized that I wasn't happy.
00:19:20.720 --> 00:19:27.279
And it was probably what I could call like a quarter life crisis moment where I was 24 at that time.
00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:30.720
The little that 24-year-olds know about what they personally want.
00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:34.799
I realized that it wasn't just making things that made me happy.
00:19:35.039 --> 00:19:49.039
What I actually really enjoyed doing was talking to people about what they wanted to create and then acting as like a creative translator to help them problem solve something tangible of, oh, here's this idea you have.
00:19:49.279 --> 00:19:52.960
What's the best way that we can communicate that using design?
00:19:53.119 --> 00:20:01.039
So I was missing half of that equation because at my full-time job, it was my manager who sent me a project brief saying, make this.
00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:04.720
And it was already technically pre-constructed, pre-strategized.
00:20:04.799 --> 00:20:06.480
I I did not have to think.
00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:15.599
And I remembered I felt even weirdly embarrassed about my job where I was like, I can't even call myself a designer because I'm not creative problem solving.
00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:16.880
I'm just a pixel pusher.
00:20:16.960 --> 00:20:17.920
Like, that's all I am.
00:20:18.079 --> 00:20:25.279
Like I felt really down on myself, um, especially when I had such high hopes and expectations for what this experience would be.
00:20:25.519 --> 00:20:33.759
So um I ended up making the decision to freelance just on the side of my full-time job to see what other things were out there.
00:20:33.920 --> 00:20:34.559
I didn't know.
00:20:34.640 --> 00:20:36.880
They didn't teach me anything about business in art school.
00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:51.279
So um, the little that I knew was that uh when I have this creative skill, it's easy to maybe just pick up some side projects on the side of my full-time job, you know, just taste test a little bit of everything before I decide where I want to plant my flag.
00:20:51.440 --> 00:20:56.960
And that was kind of like my introduction into the world of networking and small business.
00:20:57.119 --> 00:21:03.119
Um, very quickly I realized that I enjoyed my side projects a whole lot more than my full-time job.
00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:16.400
And naive me, uh again, at the age of 24, decided that um within a few months I would end up quitting my full-time job cold turkey and then just switching over to uh starting this thing called a business.
00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:19.519
Um, I quit my full-time job at the start of 2019.
00:21:19.599 --> 00:21:24.079
I just jumped into the deep end and then realized I didn't know how to swim.
00:21:24.559 --> 00:21:36.960
That's one of those situations where I cut off all of my all of my um full-time income and then realized, oh geez, it's not just the fact that I need to be good at what I do to run a business.
00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:40.720
There's a lot of other things that I don't know anything about.
00:21:40.880 --> 00:21:44.559
So that first year, um, it was a mad scramble.
00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:46.880
I was doing a little bit of all of the above.
00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:48.559
I was trying to figure out what I wanted.
00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:54.079
So I tried a whole bunch of different types of like graphic design projects with different types of businesses.
00:21:54.240 --> 00:21:57.759
I was trying to figure out the business thing, what it even meant.
00:21:57.920 --> 00:21:59.759
How do I get this set up legally?
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:02.720
And structurally, so that it's sound.
00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:08.480
And in the mishmash of all of those things, that was when I discovered and fell in love with branding.
00:22:08.559 --> 00:22:16.240
So in the process of me trying all of these things, you know how like the first few years is you try something and you're like, I am never doing that again.
00:22:16.319 --> 00:22:18.240
That was a horrible experience, never again.
00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:19.599
Oh, this is pretty cool.
00:22:19.759 --> 00:22:21.440
Let's put this in the maybe bucket.
00:22:21.599 --> 00:22:24.240
So I kind of did a lot of that in the first year.
00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:30.640
And when I discovered branding, I think my first project ever was someone asked me to design a logo for them.
00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:32.160
And I was like, 200 bucks.
00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:33.119
I'm like, I'm rich.
00:22:33.200 --> 00:22:37.839
That's like the most I've ever charged ever for anything in my life before.
00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:51.759
Um, and I loved it, not just because of the the way the creative process was, but I think I was fascinated by the fact that a brand is the only thing a designer can create that would live absolutely forever.
00:22:52.000 --> 00:23:01.200
It's not like a lot of those things that I created before, where it's like um I design like a pamphlet for an event, it gets chucked into the recycling afterwards.
00:23:01.359 --> 00:23:03.119
It's not like the packaging that I would design.
00:23:03.200 --> 00:23:09.200
People physically rip it up and throw it into the garbage after, or like a TV ad gone in two seconds.
00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:13.119
Within two weeks, the whole campaign is like it's not used anymore.
00:23:13.279 --> 00:23:23.200
Um, and for someone who puts a lot into the work that I do, um, it kind of hurts when I see the stuff that I create just become obsolete so quickly.
00:23:23.359 --> 00:23:29.440
So when I discovered branding, I was fascinated because a brand is just this thing that evolves over time.
00:23:29.599 --> 00:23:31.599
I'm obsessed with Pokemon, if you could see the Pikachu.
00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:39.440
So I'm like, it evolves, it becomes better and cooler and it grows and has the ability to impact and touch so many people.
00:23:39.599 --> 00:23:42.319
Um, it's not something that ever really goes away.
00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:46.880
So that was why I was I actually got pulled into the world of branding.
00:23:47.039 --> 00:23:49.920
I didn't know a whole lot about it, to be really honest.
00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:54.559
I was just fascinated with its ability to do so much and last so long.
00:23:54.720 --> 00:23:58.319
And I'm like, I want to make something like that for a lot of people.
00:23:58.480 --> 00:24:04.559
Um, so I mean, I did like visual branding for a lot of small businesses in the first few years.
00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:06.640
That's kind of where I planted my flag.
00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:27.359
Um, then I went through a whole identity crisis a few years into my business, um, call it my second quarter life crisis, where I was suddenly hit with uh what I shared at the beginning of our conversation about feeling like I was showing up inauthentically, like feeling like I was lying to people with the way I was packaging and presenting myself and my business.
00:24:27.519 --> 00:24:36.799
Um, and then making the decision just to shut all of it down and then bring it back as a personal brand and doing it in a way that felt a lot more unfiltered.
00:24:36.880 --> 00:24:41.119
So since then, I've kind of uh specialized more in personal branding.
00:24:41.279 --> 00:24:47.680
It honestly started off more as like a personal exploration of who am I and how do I want people to see me.
00:24:47.920 --> 00:24:49.279
It literally started like that.
00:24:49.440 --> 00:24:52.960
I didn't even think that I was doing personal branding for myself.
00:24:53.039 --> 00:24:58.559
I was like, I am just figuring my shit out, was literally what I thought as a like as a human being.
00:24:58.640 --> 00:25:05.599
I'm like, I gotta decide on this for myself, otherwise, I'm gonna feel like I'm all over the place and I don't want that.
00:25:05.759 --> 00:25:10.720
So um, it was very much like a Rachel, you gotta decide who you want to be kind of moment.
00:25:11.119 --> 00:25:16.480
Um, and it turns out it ended up translating into something for the business.
00:25:16.720 --> 00:25:20.799
Um, and it's cool that I get to say that I get to help people do the same now.
00:25:20.960 --> 00:25:24.160
Um, now that I know there's a term for it, it's called personal branding.
00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:26.640
Um, and it goes beyond just the pretty graphics.
00:25:26.799 --> 00:25:30.960
Yes, we do the pretty graphics, but the conversation goes a lot deeper than that.
00:25:31.119 --> 00:25:33.759
So um, six years later, here we are.
00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:34.400
Here we are.
00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:36.000
We're still doing the thing.
00:25:36.160 --> 00:25:39.119
Um, but it was definitely not a straightforward journey.
00:25:39.279 --> 00:25:46.240
Um, I think there are many points where I was very ready to just throw in the towel, like, screw this, I'm gonna go back to a job.
00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:47.759
This is too challenging.
00:25:47.839 --> 00:25:50.400
Um, but I am thankful that I stuck through with it.
00:25:50.799 --> 00:25:51.279
Awesome.
00:25:51.359 --> 00:25:55.359
You and I are so the same because I was definitely the kid in school who was writing.
00:25:55.519 --> 00:26:01.519
And when I wasn't writing, I was in class thinking about my stories and what I was gonna write when I got out of class.
00:26:01.599 --> 00:26:02.400
And yeah.
00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:08.240
Um, and yeah, then went to school and was told writers don't make any money, and I should choose a more practical career.
00:26:08.480 --> 00:26:17.519
So I thought I was gonna work in publishing and had the fortune or misfortune, depending on how you look at it, to graduate in 09, right after the job record crashed.
00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:22.880
So um, there there were no jobs in publishing.
00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:27.759
And fortunately, I stumbled my way in into this and was like, oh no, there are people who will pay writers.
00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:28.160
Cool.
00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:33.440
And I totally resonate with starting out and paying like what now I would consider pennies for a blog post.
00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:37.759
And at the time it's like, this is so much money, I can't believe I'm getting paid for this.
00:26:38.480 --> 00:26:39.599
People trust me.
00:26:39.680 --> 00:26:41.839
Like, yeah, I'm such a professional.
00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:48.720
And I do remember in I was in like an Ann Taylor or something, um, trying on jackets, literally trying on jackets.
00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:52.720
Like, is this something that a professional content marketer would wear?
00:26:53.359 --> 00:26:56.880
What about the and being told no, that's not professional enough, try again.
00:26:57.200 --> 00:27:00.319
So, yeah, yeah, been there, done that, all the things.
00:27:00.480 --> 00:27:02.000
I do want to talk real quickly.
00:27:02.079 --> 00:27:05.279
You mentioned um about looking professional.
00:27:05.440 --> 00:27:09.839
Um, or no, you talked about your your logo, um, which is awesome.
00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:13.839
And I'm of course, that's where most people start with their brand is I need a logo.
00:27:14.079 --> 00:27:18.160
But we in the in the biz know that your brand is not your logo.
00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:25.599
So can you talk a little bit more about going into the the fuller branding strategy and what that looks like when someone works with you?
00:27:26.799 --> 00:27:27.519
Absolutely.
00:27:27.759 --> 00:27:35.359
So the first thing that I always tell people, of course, we think of the logo because that's the part that people visually recognize.
00:27:35.519 --> 00:27:45.519
But when we think about the bigger picture of a brand, it's a bigger conversation around identity of who are you and or your business?
00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:47.039
What is your business?
00:27:47.359 --> 00:27:52.720
And how can we capture and communicate that in a way that is unique and special?
00:27:52.880 --> 00:28:02.160
So it's always a conversation about what are we communicating first before we talk about what does that look like or what does that sound like when it comes to the words.
00:28:02.319 --> 00:28:15.200
Um, most of the time when clients come to me, they already have a pretty good idea of what they're trying to communicate because they've maybe they've been in business for a few years, um, or they've kind of already tested all of the things.
00:28:15.279 --> 00:28:17.279
They've DIY their brand to death already.
00:28:17.359 --> 00:28:28.559
And they're like, I know what I don't like, I know what I want, but I just don't have the technical expertise to like make it look the way that I want it to look or sound the way that I want it to sound.
00:28:28.720 --> 00:28:37.839
So that's usually where I start having a conversation with my clients, where um they do have a clear picture of here's the vibe that I want my business to have.
00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:40.319
Here's I want what I want people to feel.
00:28:40.480 --> 00:28:43.200
Um, here's what I want people to know me for.
00:28:43.359 --> 00:28:46.960
So, like my secret sauce or like the thing that makes me special.
00:28:47.119 --> 00:28:47.920
I already know that.
00:28:48.079 --> 00:28:51.599
I just need to make it more apparent or communicate it more clearly.
00:28:51.759 --> 00:28:54.640
Um, and then the question is now how do I do that?
00:28:54.799 --> 00:28:57.279
So that's usually where I come into the picture.
00:28:57.519 --> 00:29:26.640
And um honestly, my job is to act as that translator, where I have um basically this one-week intensive process where most of the heavy lifting is honestly at the beginning, where I ask very good questions and dig really, really deep, where I like to tell my clients that my job is to get into the tiny little crevices of your brain and just extract the things that you didn't even know existed so that I have all the information I need to execute on your brand.
00:29:26.799 --> 00:29:34.880
So I kind of like I gather all of my clients' current assets just so I could see what they're working on or working with for their brand right now.
00:29:35.119 --> 00:29:41.039
I send them on a little um image scavenger hunt on the internet to send me some inspiration pictures.
00:29:41.200 --> 00:29:48.400
Maybe if they've got some Pinterest boards where they have all of the things that they have for their vision board or um just you know things they like.
00:29:48.559 --> 00:29:50.960
We always like to collect little bits and pieces here.
00:29:51.119 --> 00:30:02.720
I'm like, whatever you like, send it to me so I have an idea of what you mean when you say I like this type of vibe, or when I say I like this type of pattern, here's what it looks like.
00:30:02.960 --> 00:30:21.599
So um we get a really good capture of what they want to communicate, and then the rest is very, very easy, where I basically just create the whole darn thing, I show it back to my client, and then because I have an intensive process where we do everything live on the calls, right on the call, I'll kind of show it to my client.
00:30:21.680 --> 00:30:22.799
I'll be like, what do you think?
00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:24.640
Let's have a conversation about this.
00:30:24.799 --> 00:30:28.240
Just tell me what you're feeling, and then we can make tweaks and adjustments from there.
00:30:28.319 --> 00:30:32.319
And then we basically co-create their band together, which is the super fun part.
00:30:32.480 --> 00:30:37.440
Um, I actually tell my clients, we we cannot cross the finish line without your input.
00:30:37.599 --> 00:30:38.480
So talk to me here.
00:30:38.559 --> 00:30:39.599
Like, what are you thinking?
00:30:39.759 --> 00:30:40.480
What are you feeling?
00:30:40.559 --> 00:30:44.720
If it's completely off, don't worry about hurting my feelings, just give it to me straight.
00:30:44.960 --> 00:30:52.480
My purpose here is to just act as like your hands and feet, and then you could just tell me what you want, and then I'll make it for you.
00:30:52.559 --> 00:30:59.279
So by the time we finish um the last call that we have together, the client has exactly what it is that they're looking for.
00:30:59.359 --> 00:31:06.559
Um and it's just this fun magical process where we get to play together and they get to watch me design live if we end up making tweaks to the brand.
00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:07.519
It's super fun.
00:31:07.839 --> 00:31:08.240
Love it.
00:31:08.319 --> 00:31:09.920
Yeah, I don't get this as much anymore.
00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:17.279
I was always confused when I started out and I had people who were like hesitant to give me feedback, and I'm like, this content is for you.
00:31:17.599 --> 00:31:19.599
I'm not emotionally attached to it.
00:31:19.680 --> 00:31:22.319
So if you want me to make changes, let me know.
00:31:23.039 --> 00:31:23.920
Exactly.
00:31:24.160 --> 00:31:24.880
Exactly.
00:31:25.119 --> 00:31:32.319
I feel like it's very different when you make content for someone else versus it's like a self-expression.
00:31:32.559 --> 00:31:36.000
Um, and drawing from like even the work that I do.
00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:44.240
Like I am an artist, I love drawing and sketching and like a lot of things, but the design work that I do for my clients is completely different.
00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:54.880
And you kind of have to create that separation of, oh, well, when they're giving me feedback, it's because we both agreed we're trying to create something that does XYZ.
00:31:55.119 --> 00:32:00.559
Our job is not to create something that's like it's this isn't like the next Mona Lisa.
00:32:00.799 --> 00:32:02.880
This is not like that kind of masterpiece.
00:32:03.039 --> 00:32:15.759
This is about checking off the boxes of what you want to communicate and then just having a conversation about oh, this design choice checked off uh this aspect that you're trying to communicate because XYZ.
00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:21.440
Um, or oh no, this color that you chose, it doesn't check off these boxes because XYZ.
00:32:21.519 --> 00:32:24.000
So it makes our conversation a whole lot easier.
00:32:24.160 --> 00:32:29.920
So I have to remove the pressure from my clients and tell them one, there are no wrong answers.
00:32:30.079 --> 00:32:32.160
And two, you can tell me it's okay.
00:32:32.240 --> 00:32:35.920
You're not gonna hurt my feelings because our job is to create this.
00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:37.039
This is for you.
00:32:37.279 --> 00:32:45.599
So only you will actually know if we're close to hitting the target on the bullseye or if we're like far left field and we really need to reel it back.
00:32:45.759 --> 00:32:47.519
Um, art is totally different.
00:32:47.599 --> 00:32:50.640
It's like all self-expression, it's whatever you're feeling.
00:32:50.799 --> 00:32:53.599
There are all I technically there's no wrong answers either.
00:32:53.759 --> 00:32:55.920
It's just whatever you feel, you put it out there.
00:32:56.079 --> 00:33:03.599
But when people do critique that, that's when you can, you you have permission to get butthurt when people like your personal art.
00:33:04.799 --> 00:33:08.160
Uh we're gonna have to do this again because this was so much fun.
00:33:08.240 --> 00:33:13.279
And I have a million more questions for you, but I am gonna let you go and let our listeners slash viewers go.
00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:21.279
Uh, so if they want to continue this conversation with you, if they have a bunch more questions for you, if they want to know what it's like to work with you, where can the good people find you?
00:33:21.680 --> 00:33:24.720
Uh yes, I prefer to hang out on Instagram.
00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:27.519
Um, it's got all the fun, flashy, visual stuff.
00:33:27.680 --> 00:33:29.839
I love to update my stories frequently too.
00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:33.279
Um, my handle is Rachel T Y Lee.
00:33:33.440 --> 00:33:36.079
Um, I guess we'll make sure it's in the show notes somewhere.
00:33:36.240 --> 00:33:38.160
Um, I am on LinkedIn as well, though.
00:33:38.319 --> 00:33:42.799
Um, I I feel like most of my conversations with people actually happen on LinkedIn.
00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:47.359
So um you could probably easily search me with my name, but I do have a very generic name.
00:33:47.440 --> 00:33:52.240
So I'll probably make sure I have a link to my LinkedIn profile um available to you guys as well.
00:33:52.400 --> 00:33:55.920
Um, otherwise, you guys are uh welcome to reach me just through my website.
00:33:56.000 --> 00:33:59.039
There's a contact form on there that you guys can also fill out.
00:33:59.119 --> 00:34:01.279
Um it's just rachelty.com.
00:34:01.440 --> 00:34:02.240
Super simple.
00:34:02.559 --> 00:34:03.039
Perfect.
00:34:03.200 --> 00:34:03.599
Love it.
00:34:03.680 --> 00:34:06.480
Yes, and I am, of course, your host, Alison Verhalen.
00:34:06.640 --> 00:34:11.360
You can find me over on my website, A V, as in my initials, Allison Verhalen.
00:34:11.440 --> 00:34:13.679
That is A V Writing Services.com.
00:34:13.840 --> 00:34:17.280
I am mostly on LinkedIn, so that's where you can find me.
00:34:17.440 --> 00:34:19.199
Um and I'm also on YouTube.
00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:24.719
If you're not already watching this on YouTube, come check me out on YouTube at Allison Verhalen Content Marketer.
00:34:25.039 --> 00:34:26.159
Thanks so much, Rachel.
00:34:26.239 --> 00:34:27.280
This was a blast.
00:34:27.840 --> 00:34:28.239
Totally.
00:34:28.400 --> 00:34:29.679
Thank you for having me.
00:00:02.080 --> 00:00:07.040
All right, welcome, welcome, welcome to this episode of Marketing Spotlight.
00:00:07.120 --> 00:00:09.039
I am so excited for today's guests.
00:00:09.119 --> 00:00:13.839
I'm always excited, but I'm a little especially excited today to talk to Rachel Lee.
00:00:14.000 --> 00:00:20.399
Um, I can't remember how we got connected, but if you are watching the video, you can see her whole getup and her background.
00:00:20.559 --> 00:00:25.760
And I think as soon as I saw it when we hopped on Zoom together, I was like, I'm going to love this person.
00:00:25.920 --> 00:00:28.480
Like, this is totally my human.
00:00:28.640 --> 00:00:32.159
For those of you who can't see, there's a giant Pikachu back there.
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There's a lot of light and pink.
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Uh, there's another Pikachu.
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Uh, there's like an electric guitar hanging on the wall, not a literal one, but a cutout of one.
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It is so much fun.
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Love it, love it, love it.
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Thank you so much for being here, Rachel.
00:00:48.880 --> 00:00:51.039
Um, Rachel, I won't tell you too much.
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I know she's a branding strategist and graphic designer.
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Um, and so that's how we got connected.
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So without me saying anything more, Rachel, I want you to tell the good people who you are and what you do.
00:01:03.600 --> 00:01:06.000
Oh, well, thank you for having me on this call.
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I feel like you always hype people up.
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I'm like, oh geez, I gotta keep up with that introduction.
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Well, I'll do my best.
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Um, hi, everybody.
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If anyone can, you can, Rachel.
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I appreciate that.
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Um, well, my jam is personal branding.
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I do have a background in art and design.
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So the thing that most people come to me for is helping them capture their vibe in something that they can see.
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I especially um love working with personal brands because it's not just a conversation about how we can position you strategically to get you in front of your audience.
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It's more of a conversation around who are you?
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What makes you cool?
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And how can we really draw that out so that people can see it?
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And I feel like when I start to talk to people about branding in this perspective, they get excited because it's like I give them that blank check of, oh, you mean I could just be whatever I want to be?
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And I'm like, heck yes, like that is what my work is about.
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And I do that for personal brands, entrepreneurs specifically, but also for small businesses who want to infuse a little bit more fire, spice, and sparkle into the way that their brand feels.
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So I like to say I help my clients with all of those things.
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Um, but yes, uh, for those of you who are tuning in audibly, you got to check out the video recording because I've got a lot of stuff going on in my background.
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It's a lot of fun, yes.
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And I I love something that I think just clicked for me as you were talking is the fact that you give, like you said, you give people the freedom to just be who they are in business.
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And I think it's ironic that a lot of us, I know for myself, like I went into business so that I wouldn't have anyone telling me what to do.
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And I know that's true for a lot of us, and yet we end up l having other people tell us what to do, and or we think we need someone else to tell us what to do, especially when it comes to something like branding and marketing and how you communicate with your clients and your prospects.
00:03:02.240 --> 00:03:05.759
There it can feel like there's one way to do it.
00:03:05.840 --> 00:03:11.919
Um, and it has to be the right way, and if it's not the right way, you're gonna fail and end up living in a van down by the river, right?
00:03:12.240 --> 00:03:16.719
So there's yeah, it's it's it's actually quite sad.
00:03:16.879 --> 00:03:23.439
Like I remember when I first started business, I originally went in thinking exactly that.
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I'm like, I'm gonna be my own boss, it's gonna be so fun, it's gonna be a fantastic experience.
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And then the moment that I actually dove in and started to realize, oh, geez, I have to do my own marketing.
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There's so many things attached to it.
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But there's this one thing that I noticed that I didn't like, which is the fact that there's this weird, unspoken professional standard that we feel that we have to comply by in order for people to trust us and do business with us.
00:03:50.560 --> 00:03:58.479
And even though, yes, of course, professionalism is very important, we should treat people with kindness and courtesy and respect, all of the above.
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We are not in the corporate world anymore.
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We run the show.
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No one's telling you that you have to dress this way because this is your business.
00:04:07.680 --> 00:04:12.960
You don't have a manager breathing down your neck because you decided to wear the wrong shoes to work today.
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I will I also work on Zoom.
00:04:14.560 --> 00:04:17.839
So what I wear on the bottom actually also doesn't matter.
00:04:18.079 --> 00:04:27.759
But um, yeah, isn't that so weird that we feel this pressure to show up a certain way, even though technically we are our own boss?
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So weird.
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It is weird, yeah.
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And I get it.
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Like I've been there too.
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I've been the whole, like, oh, I'm a business owner now and I don't actually know anything about owning and running a business.
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So I'd better get some advice.
00:04:38.639 --> 00:04:46.959
And there's advice, and then there's yeah, people like you who work with you instead of just giving you a blanket, this is what everyone has to do.
00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:56.319
Um, and I want to zero in on something you said because you mentioned the the keyword trust, which is what branding and marketing is all about, is earning people's trust.
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And you said that we feel people won't trust us if we're not super professional.
00:05:00.560 --> 00:05:01.519
And again, I get that.
00:05:01.680 --> 00:05:02.720
Ben there done that.
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Um, especially as a woman, there's a whole other layer to that.
00:05:06.079 --> 00:05:12.480
Um, but I do think if you show up as yourself authentically, that's when people trust you.
00:05:12.639 --> 00:05:36.639
If you try to put on this corporate veneer and it doesn't fit who you are or how you want to work with people, that's there's gonna be a disconnect and they'll sense it, especially if your marketing and your branding is super corporate, and then they talk to you and you've got pink hair and pink and chew in the background and all these other things, and they're like, wait a minute, that that is not the expectation that was set for me.
00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:43.759
So um I I love that you encourage people to be who they are because that is how you build trust with people.
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Thank you.
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I totally agree with you.
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I feel like it's also unsustainable to try to put up this front.
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And then when that's not actually who you are, you always have to remind yourself, oh no, wait, I am professional, Rachel, now.
00:06:00.480 --> 00:06:02.639
You know, you have to keep switching those hats.
00:06:02.800 --> 00:06:09.839
And at some point, something's gonna slip, or you just get so tired that um you just don't want to do it anymore.
00:06:10.000 --> 00:06:16.480
Like I went through that for the first few years of my business because I thought I needed to show up a certain way.
00:06:16.560 --> 00:06:18.560
So I had professional Rachel on.
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I wore literally the exact same clothes I wore to my full-time job, but just you know, on Zoom or to networking events.
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I branded my business the same semi-corporate way.
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Of course, I ran a creative agency, so I tried to have fun with it, but I remember when I created my branding, the script I even told myself was, okay, this is creative, but don't be too creative because you're gonna scare people away.
00:06:44.319 --> 00:06:45.600
Isn't that so strange?
00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:54.319
But yeah, like I got to this snapping point with my business where I just felt like I was lying to people.
00:06:54.480 --> 00:07:07.040
There's no other way of saying it where I would show up to a networking event, suit and tie, you know, actually putting up a front, being like, hey, like you gotta you gotta like invest your time and energy with me because I can take you the distance.
00:07:07.199 --> 00:07:13.920
The whole nine yards um when on the back end, I was like, ah, like this doesn't feel authentic to me.
00:07:14.079 --> 00:07:16.079
I don't want to be this pushy person.
00:07:16.240 --> 00:07:18.240
I want to just grow with my clients.
00:07:18.399 --> 00:07:28.319
I just want to be there to support like the energy was off, the way it was presented was off, um, to the point where I just stopped showing up because everything just felt so bad.
00:07:28.560 --> 00:07:34.240
And the personal branding thing only happened when I decided to burn everything to the ground and be like, you know what?
00:07:34.480 --> 00:07:35.120
Screw it.
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I'm just gonna show up as me.
00:07:36.480 --> 00:07:40.160
And if I scare everyone off, nothing was happening now anyway.
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So I'm not losing out on anything if I decide to do the crazy thing.
00:07:45.759 --> 00:07:48.319
Um, thank God it worked out pretty good.
00:07:49.120 --> 00:07:50.480
You know, knock on wood.
00:07:50.560 --> 00:07:52.240
Um, it turned out pretty well.
00:07:52.399 --> 00:07:55.920
I'm a few years into this new phase of my business now.
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But if we met in the earlier years, you would be like, Who's who's this girl?
00:08:03.759 --> 00:08:05.199
Completely different, yeah.
00:08:05.360 --> 00:08:10.319
And I again I latched onto something you said that I want to talk about more because I'm also a creative person.
00:08:10.959 --> 00:08:16.879
Yeah, and I think when I started um my business, you know, SEO was a thing.
00:08:16.959 --> 00:08:18.959
It wasn't as big a thing as it is now.
00:08:19.120 --> 00:08:28.079
For those of you listening who don't know what I'm talking about, SEO stands for search engine optimization, which basically means making Google your friend so you can show up when people are looking for you.
00:08:28.240 --> 00:08:32.879
And there's a whole science behind that, um, and art really, because there's a lot of guessw.
00:08:33.120 --> 00:08:39.759
So I, you know, long story short, I figured out blogging and SEO are too intertwined to do one without the other.
00:08:39.840 --> 00:08:45.519
I really resisted learning SEO and then stumbled my way into it and actually found that it's fascinating.
00:08:45.679 --> 00:08:49.919
And one of the reasons I resisted it was because I thought it would stifle my creativity.
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I thought it would tell me what to write when I thought I should be writing something else for myself or for this other client.
00:08:56.159 --> 00:08:58.159
And I actually found the opposite to be true.
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I actually found that by researching what people are looking for, that gives me so much more information and inspiration.
00:09:05.840 --> 00:09:12.879
I get lots of inspiration when I do keyword research and I see what other people are talking about in my industry and related industries.
00:09:12.960 --> 00:09:20.879
It's like, oh yeah, people are asking about this and I can talk about such and such, and they don't understand how this works, so I can explain it to them, and I'm off off and running.
00:09:21.039 --> 00:09:35.679
Um, so I wonder if you've had any similar kind of experiences where you think something will stifle your creativity and it actually, whether it's giving your creativity parameters or actually giving you inspiration, is there any because there is certain parameters you have to follow in in branding.
00:09:35.759 --> 00:09:37.360
So how do you apply that?
00:09:37.759 --> 00:09:38.960
Yes, absolutely.
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So I always say that when it comes to branding, the best rule of thumb is less is more.
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I feel like people tend to go way over the top with their colors, with their graphics, because it has to be pretty, right?
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Like that's what people think when they see the branding.
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But if I were to be honest, even from a design perspective, the number one rule of your brand is to make it accessible first before anything else.
00:10:05.840 --> 00:10:10.080
Because if people can't read your logo or your content, what are we doing?
00:10:10.240 --> 00:10:10.480
Right.
00:10:10.639 --> 00:10:23.759
Like they could get the vibe, but if they're not getting the information, your graphics, your vibe, it's not doing what it's doing, which is it's supposed to support your message, support you in delivering it and getting it in front of your customers.
00:10:23.919 --> 00:10:42.720
So um, this is kind of even like what I was taught when I was in art school, where my teacher all the time would always emphasize okay, yes, we know you're in art school, we know you're studying design, we know you want to make this pretty, but all of that is useless if people cannot read the content that you're actually putting on the page.
00:10:42.960 --> 00:10:47.120
So when it comes to branding, one of the biggest parameters is accessibility.
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We got to make sure that people are able to read it and understand it.
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Um, are people getting a migraine by reading the words because you put it on like a weirdly colored background or picked a font that just is completely illegible?
00:11:00.879 --> 00:11:03.039
So there are certain parameters with that.
00:11:03.200 --> 00:11:06.879
I say the number one rule is definitely it has to be accessible.
00:11:07.039 --> 00:11:14.240
Um, and then the second thing, I think it goes down to um every brand specifically also has boundaries.
00:11:14.320 --> 00:11:23.200
And it's important to set what those are so then you don't get into a situation where you make a decision for your brand where you go off brand.
00:11:23.440 --> 00:11:33.279
So, for example, even for my brands, I have certain parameters around it's playful, but not to the point where it's juvenile.
00:11:33.440 --> 00:11:45.840
And when I make certain creative decisions for my brand, because I'm always tinkering with it and growing and evolving it, I will come across some situations where I'm deciding to try this new style of post, for example.
00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:56.399
And as I'm creating the graphics, I'm doing the words and the visuals, and I always run it through one last uh brand check before I put it out into the world and I ask myself these questions.
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Does it feel playful or does it cross that line?
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And if it does, I'm gonna have to pull it back a little bit.
00:12:02.480 --> 00:12:13.200
So that way, um, when you set these parameters for yourself, it kind of ensures that everything you put out, even if it's the first time you're ever trying it for your brand, it still falls within those parameters.
00:12:13.279 --> 00:12:20.879
So you don't end up in a situation where you put something out there and it's so far left field that people don't recognize it anymore.
00:12:21.120 --> 00:12:25.919
Um, so that's something that I always recommend for people is that boundaries are your friend.
00:12:26.159 --> 00:12:42.639
I think people might think that it's restrictive because it's like a box, but it's actually very helpful to help you um kind of paint between the lines so you're not left guessing because most of the time that we lose is spent making these tiny little decisions about which shade of blue should I use.
00:12:42.720 --> 00:12:47.360
And then before you know it, three hours are gone and your posts never ended up going out.
00:12:47.440 --> 00:12:50.639
So boundaries are your friend, is what I would have to say.
00:12:50.960 --> 00:12:51.919
Yes, 100%.
00:12:52.240 --> 00:13:08.559
And I do want to ask you about something in particular because I know you posted on LinkedIn, you were kind of going through this branding process for yourself, and you were that kind of brought up a lot for you as far as you know, your brand, but also, oh, this process actually works.
00:13:09.039 --> 00:13:13.919
So can you take us through a little bit of what that was like to take your own system?
00:13:14.159 --> 00:13:17.600
Um, first of all, I do want to say less is more, 100%.
00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:26.000
That is so true for writing as well as for the graphics, but I'm on a tangent now, so I'll bring it back to what I was talking about.
00:13:26.080 --> 00:13:34.399
Um, which is yeah, let you to talk about that process that you went through, your own branding process for your own brand and what that was like.
00:13:34.960 --> 00:13:47.759
Oh, isn't it so cool when you get to take yourself through your process and drink your own Kool-Aid and realize, oh wow, now I know why my clients hire me because it's really hard to do it for yourself.
00:13:48.240 --> 00:13:49.039
Yeah, it is.
00:13:49.279 --> 00:13:55.840
Um, yeah, like it's funny because I specialize in one week brand setups for my clients.
00:13:56.000 --> 00:13:58.639
There, there's a system, there's a process for it.
00:13:58.799 --> 00:14:03.600
Everything is bookended between two calls, and we literally get everything done in a week.
00:14:03.759 --> 00:14:08.799
So I thought, you know, the expert here was like, oh, I could just run myself through my own system.
00:14:08.960 --> 00:14:10.639
It'll be pretty straightforward.
00:14:10.879 --> 00:14:13.840
It did not take one week, it did not take one month.
00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:14.879
It is month.
00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:15.840
Let me see.
00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:19.200
I said that I would start this endeavor at the end of last year.
00:14:19.360 --> 00:14:27.360
It is mid-March right now, and I'm just rounding up the final pieces to do the big official launch at the end of this month.
00:14:27.440 --> 00:14:29.759
So you do the math, it's been a hot second.
00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:41.279
And I would have to say that even though I did run myself through my own process, I realized that there were many moments where I was just way up in my own head about my own stuff.
00:14:41.519 --> 00:14:52.879
Because, and I'm not sure if this is something that's just specifically related to branding, but sometimes, even though technically, yes, I have the skills to execute, I have all the strategy to back it up.
00:14:53.039 --> 00:15:01.039
But when you work on your own stuff, there are some moments where you're just so caught up in your own head, your insecurities, you start second guessing yourself.
00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:03.360
You start asking, is this actually right?
00:15:03.519 --> 00:15:05.039
Like, should I be doing it?
00:15:05.200 --> 00:15:06.799
You start shitting all over yourself.
00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:11.200
Um, and the process ends up dragging on for quite some time.
00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:16.399
So I'm very thankful to say I do have a business partner that I tag team this with.
00:15:16.559 --> 00:15:23.200
So when I start getting up in my own head, I'll pull my business partner over to be like, all right, I'm working on this, need your opinion on it.
00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:25.919
And he'll stare at it for a second and be like, let's do this one.
00:15:26.080 --> 00:15:28.799
And it makes it so much easier for me.
00:15:28.960 --> 00:15:44.080
Um, but there's a lot of pieces that go uh together with the rebrand where um we ran through our own process of doing our messaging and our visuals, but outside of that, which is the signature process that we do for our clients, we also have to set up our own site.
00:15:44.240 --> 00:15:46.399
There are digital products we had to create.
00:15:46.480 --> 00:15:50.240
Um, we're lining things up to shoot some video masterclasses.
00:15:50.320 --> 00:15:56.480
There's a bunch of things that are outside of what we typically offer to our clients that we're working on for ourselves.
00:15:56.639 --> 00:16:02.000
So therefore, we are about three months into the rebrand.
00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:05.679
And thank goodness um we are gonna cross the finish line very soon.
00:16:05.840 --> 00:16:13.120
I'm slightly, slightly cursing myself for giving myself a hard deadline and just telling the world, I'm like March 30th is the date, guys.
00:16:13.200 --> 00:16:15.759
Like, no excuses for you or for us.
00:16:15.919 --> 00:16:16.960
We're gonna get it out.
00:16:17.120 --> 00:16:26.320
So I'm uh apprehensively eyeing my calendar every day, like checking off the days of all right, like T minus nine days too much.
00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:29.120
Um, but it's it's been fun though.
00:16:29.200 --> 00:16:32.320
I I make it sound horrible, but it's been a very fun process.
00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:43.360
And I feel like I learned a lot about myself just running through it, um, figuring out where are some kinks where I might want to watch out for um and you know, reapply it to the way that I support my clients.
00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:45.120
So it's it's been a good time.
00:16:45.919 --> 00:16:46.399
Awesome.
00:16:46.559 --> 00:16:47.039
I love that.
00:16:47.120 --> 00:16:54.879
Yeah, I also have a series of questions I like to ask my clients when I onboard them, which is essentially getting to their brand voice guidelines.
00:16:54.960 --> 00:16:58.480
And yeah, going through those questions, we're like, man, these are hard to answer.
00:17:00.399 --> 00:17:02.799
It is so much harder to do it for yourself.
00:17:02.960 --> 00:17:18.000
Um, and I always tell my people too, that's a lot of the value that I provide is having that outside perspective and being able to see it through a someone who's not you, but also be closer to understanding what this looks like to your prospects, to your ideal clients.
00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:25.440
Um, and yes, I do want to go back to what you said about uh less is more, because that is so true of writing.
00:17:25.519 --> 00:17:33.279
And I feel like the more I learn, and I'm still learning this, like what not to put in your writing and how much you need to cut out when you're editing.
00:17:33.359 --> 00:17:39.680
Um, that's why I always edit, that's why I always write it and leave it alone for at least 24 hours and then come back and edit it.
00:17:39.839 --> 00:17:44.880
Because that's when I go, I don't need this word, I don't need this sentence, this whole paragraph is useless.
00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:50.319
That's when uh it gets a lot shorter than the first draft.
00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:58.160
I think um Stephen King said his second draft is always like 10% shorter than his first draft, because that's when you go, you know, and you're just cutting stuff out.
00:17:58.319 --> 00:18:00.960
So yeah, keep it, keep it super simple.
00:18:01.119 --> 00:18:04.400
Uh it is it is so important in branding.
00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:06.480
Um, I do have a question.
00:18:06.640 --> 00:18:11.839
I I usually ask my guests this at the beginning, and I got so excited that we jumped into other stuff.
00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:15.279
But I do always like to know how did you get started in this?
00:18:15.440 --> 00:18:19.039
What brought you into the world of branding and graphic design?
00:18:20.480 --> 00:18:23.759
I like to call myself an accidental entrepreneur.
00:18:24.079 --> 00:18:27.680
I did not grow up in a family of entrepreneurs.
00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:30.640
I didn't go to business school to study this.
00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:32.640
Um, I was the art kid.
00:18:32.799 --> 00:18:39.599
Uh I was that kid who always was doodling on her test paper, not fully paying attention in class.
00:18:39.920 --> 00:18:45.599
I fully went the uh pursued my passion in studying design in art school.
00:18:45.759 --> 00:18:48.880
And I just knew that I wanted to make things for a living.
00:18:49.039 --> 00:18:50.880
It was pretty straightforward for me.
00:18:51.039 --> 00:18:59.680
And of course, what they teach you in school is oh, if you want to make things, go become a graphic designer, work at a marketing company, you'll have a great time.
00:18:59.759 --> 00:19:01.680
And, you know, I drank that Kool-Aid.
00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:03.680
So I went the whole route.
00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:14.640
I worked full time as a graphic designer at a local marketing company and thought that I would be happy because uh they gave me this big shiny computer, the software, it moved so fast.
00:19:14.799 --> 00:19:17.599
I was pushing pixels every single day.
00:19:17.839 --> 00:19:20.559
Um, but I realized that I wasn't happy.
00:19:20.720 --> 00:19:27.279
And it was probably what I could call like a quarter life crisis moment where I was 24 at that time.
00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:30.720
The little that 24-year-olds know about what they personally want.
00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:34.799
I realized that it wasn't just making things that made me happy.
00:19:35.039 --> 00:19:49.039
What I actually really enjoyed doing was talking to people about what they wanted to create and then acting as like a creative translator to help them problem solve something tangible of, oh, here's this idea you have.
00:19:49.279 --> 00:19:52.960
What's the best way that we can communicate that using design?
00:19:53.119 --> 00:20:01.039
So I was missing half of that equation because at my full-time job, it was my manager who sent me a project brief saying, make this.
00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:04.720
And it was already technically pre-constructed, pre-strategized.
00:20:04.799 --> 00:20:06.480
I I did not have to think.
00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:15.599
And I remembered I felt even weirdly embarrassed about my job where I was like, I can't even call myself a designer because I'm not creative problem solving.
00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:16.880
I'm just a pixel pusher.
00:20:16.960 --> 00:20:17.920
Like, that's all I am.
00:20:18.079 --> 00:20:25.279
Like I felt really down on myself, um, especially when I had such high hopes and expectations for what this experience would be.
00:20:25.519 --> 00:20:33.759
So um I ended up making the decision to freelance just on the side of my full-time job to see what other things were out there.
00:20:33.920 --> 00:20:34.559
I didn't know.
00:20:34.640 --> 00:20:36.880
They didn't teach me anything about business in art school.
00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:51.279
So um, the little that I knew was that uh when I have this creative skill, it's easy to maybe just pick up some side projects on the side of my full-time job, you know, just taste test a little bit of everything before I decide where I want to plant my flag.
00:20:51.440 --> 00:20:56.960
And that was kind of like my introduction into the world of networking and small business.
00:20:57.119 --> 00:21:03.119
Um, very quickly I realized that I enjoyed my side projects a whole lot more than my full-time job.
00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:16.400
And naive me, uh again, at the age of 24, decided that um within a few months I would end up quitting my full-time job cold turkey and then just switching over to uh starting this thing called a business.
00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:19.519
Um, I quit my full-time job at the start of 2019.
00:21:19.599 --> 00:21:24.079
I just jumped into the deep end and then realized I didn't know how to swim.
00:21:24.559 --> 00:21:36.960
That's one of those situations where I cut off all of my all of my um full-time income and then realized, oh geez, it's not just the fact that I need to be good at what I do to run a business.
00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:40.720
There's a lot of other things that I don't know anything about.
00:21:40.880 --> 00:21:44.559
So that first year, um, it was a mad scramble.
00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:46.880
I was doing a little bit of all of the above.
00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:48.559
I was trying to figure out what I wanted.
00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:54.079
So I tried a whole bunch of different types of like graphic design projects with different types of businesses.
00:21:54.240 --> 00:21:57.759
I was trying to figure out the business thing, what it even meant.
00:21:57.920 --> 00:21:59.759
How do I get this set up legally?
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:02.720
And structurally, so that it's sound.
00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:08.480
And in the mishmash of all of those things, that was when I discovered and fell in love with branding.
00:22:08.559 --> 00:22:16.240
So in the process of me trying all of these things, you know how like the first few years is you try something and you're like, I am never doing that again.
00:22:16.319 --> 00:22:18.240
That was a horrible experience, never again.
00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:19.599
Oh, this is pretty cool.
00:22:19.759 --> 00:22:21.440
Let's put this in the maybe bucket.
00:22:21.599 --> 00:22:24.240
So I kind of did a lot of that in the first year.
00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:30.640
And when I discovered branding, I think my first project ever was someone asked me to design a logo for them.
00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:32.160
And I was like, 200 bucks.
00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:33.119
I'm like, I'm rich.
00:22:33.200 --> 00:22:37.839
That's like the most I've ever charged ever for anything in my life before.
00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:51.759
Um, and I loved it, not just because of the the way the creative process was, but I think I was fascinated by the fact that a brand is the only thing a designer can create that would live absolutely forever.
00:22:52.000 --> 00:23:01.200
It's not like a lot of those things that I created before, where it's like um I design like a pamphlet for an event, it gets chucked into the recycling afterwards.
00:23:01.359 --> 00:23:03.119
It's not like the packaging that I would design.
00:23:03.200 --> 00:23:09.200
People physically rip it up and throw it into the garbage after, or like a TV ad gone in two seconds.
00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:13.119
Within two weeks, the whole campaign is like it's not used anymore.
00:23:13.279 --> 00:23:23.200
Um, and for someone who puts a lot into the work that I do, um, it kind of hurts when I see the stuff that I create just become obsolete so quickly.
00:23:23.359 --> 00:23:29.440
So when I discovered branding, I was fascinated because a brand is just this thing that evolves over time.
00:23:29.599 --> 00:23:31.599
I'm obsessed with Pokemon, if you could see the Pikachu.
00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:39.440
So I'm like, it evolves, it becomes better and cooler and it grows and has the ability to impact and touch so many people.
00:23:39.599 --> 00:23:42.319
Um, it's not something that ever really goes away.
00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:46.880
So that was why I was I actually got pulled into the world of branding.
00:23:47.039 --> 00:23:49.920
I didn't know a whole lot about it, to be really honest.
00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:54.559
I was just fascinated with its ability to do so much and last so long.
00:23:54.720 --> 00:23:58.319
And I'm like, I want to make something like that for a lot of people.
00:23:58.480 --> 00:24:04.559
Um, so I mean, I did like visual branding for a lot of small businesses in the first few years.
00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:06.640
That's kind of where I planted my flag.
00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:27.359
Um, then I went through a whole identity crisis a few years into my business, um, call it my second quarter life crisis, where I was suddenly hit with uh what I shared at the beginning of our conversation about feeling like I was showing up inauthentically, like feeling like I was lying to people with the way I was packaging and presenting myself and my business.
00:24:27.519 --> 00:24:36.799
Um, and then making the decision just to shut all of it down and then bring it back as a personal brand and doing it in a way that felt a lot more unfiltered.
00:24:36.880 --> 00:24:41.119
So since then, I've kind of uh specialized more in personal branding.
00:24:41.279 --> 00:24:47.680
It honestly started off more as like a personal exploration of who am I and how do I want people to see me.
00:24:47.920 --> 00:24:49.279
It literally started like that.
00:24:49.440 --> 00:24:52.960
I didn't even think that I was doing personal branding for myself.
00:24:53.039 --> 00:24:58.559
I was like, I am just figuring my shit out, was literally what I thought as a like as a human being.
00:24:58.640 --> 00:25:05.599
I'm like, I gotta decide on this for myself, otherwise, I'm gonna feel like I'm all over the place and I don't want that.
00:25:05.759 --> 00:25:10.720
So um, it was very much like a Rachel, you gotta decide who you want to be kind of moment.
00:25:11.119 --> 00:25:16.480
Um, and it turns out it ended up translating into something for the business.
00:25:16.720 --> 00:25:20.799
Um, and it's cool that I get to say that I get to help people do the same now.
00:25:20.960 --> 00:25:24.160
Um, now that I know there's a term for it, it's called personal branding.
00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:26.640
Um, and it goes beyond just the pretty graphics.
00:25:26.799 --> 00:25:30.960
Yes, we do the pretty graphics, but the conversation goes a lot deeper than that.
00:25:31.119 --> 00:25:33.759
So um, six years later, here we are.
00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:34.400
Here we are.
00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:36.000
We're still doing the thing.
00:25:36.160 --> 00:25:39.119
Um, but it was definitely not a straightforward journey.
00:25:39.279 --> 00:25:46.240
Um, I think there are many points where I was very ready to just throw in the towel, like, screw this, I'm gonna go back to a job.
00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:47.759
This is too challenging.
00:25:47.839 --> 00:25:50.400
Um, but I am thankful that I stuck through with it.
00:25:50.799 --> 00:25:51.279
Awesome.
00:25:51.359 --> 00:25:55.359
You and I are so the same because I was definitely the kid in school who was writing.
00:25:55.519 --> 00:26:01.519
And when I wasn't writing, I was in class thinking about my stories and what I was gonna write when I got out of class.
00:26:01.599 --> 00:26:02.400
And yeah.
00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:08.240
Um, and yeah, then went to school and was told writers don't make any money, and I should choose a more practical career.
00:26:08.480 --> 00:26:17.519
So I thought I was gonna work in publishing and had the fortune or misfortune, depending on how you look at it, to graduate in 09, right after the job record crashed.
00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:22.880
So um, there there were no jobs in publishing.
00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:27.759
And fortunately, I stumbled my way in into this and was like, oh no, there are people who will pay writers.
00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:28.160
Cool.
00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:33.440
And I totally resonate with starting out and paying like what now I would consider pennies for a blog post.
00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:37.759
And at the time it's like, this is so much money, I can't believe I'm getting paid for this.
00:26:38.480 --> 00:26:39.599
People trust me.
00:26:39.680 --> 00:26:41.839
Like, yeah, I'm such a professional.
00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:48.720
And I do remember in I was in like an Ann Taylor or something, um, trying on jackets, literally trying on jackets.
00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:52.720
Like, is this something that a professional content marketer would wear?
00:26:53.359 --> 00:26:56.880
What about the and being told no, that's not professional enough, try again.
00:26:57.200 --> 00:27:00.319
So, yeah, yeah, been there, done that, all the things.
00:27:00.480 --> 00:27:02.000
I do want to talk real quickly.
00:27:02.079 --> 00:27:05.279
You mentioned um about looking professional.
00:27:05.440 --> 00:27:09.839
Um, or no, you talked about your your logo, um, which is awesome.
00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:13.839
And I'm of course, that's where most people start with their brand is I need a logo.
00:27:14.079 --> 00:27:18.160
But we in the in the biz know that your brand is not your logo.
00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:25.599
So can you talk a little bit more about going into the the fuller branding strategy and what that looks like when someone works with you?
00:27:26.799 --> 00:27:27.519
Absolutely.
00:27:27.759 --> 00:27:35.359
So the first thing that I always tell people, of course, we think of the logo because that's the part that people visually recognize.
00:27:35.519 --> 00:27:45.519
But when we think about the bigger picture of a brand, it's a bigger conversation around identity of who are you and or your business?
00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:47.039
What is your business?
00:27:47.359 --> 00:27:52.720
And how can we capture and communicate that in a way that is unique and special?
00:27:52.880 --> 00:28:02.160
So it's always a conversation about what are we communicating first before we talk about what does that look like or what does that sound like when it comes to the words.
00:28:02.319 --> 00:28:15.200
Um, most of the time when clients come to me, they already have a pretty good idea of what they're trying to communicate because they've maybe they've been in business for a few years, um, or they've kind of already tested all of the things.
00:28:15.279 --> 00:28:17.279
They've DIY their brand to death already.
00:28:17.359 --> 00:28:28.559
And they're like, I know what I don't like, I know what I want, but I just don't have the technical expertise to like make it look the way that I want it to look or sound the way that I want it to sound.
00:28:28.720 --> 00:28:37.839
So that's usually where I start having a conversation with my clients, where um they do have a clear picture of here's the vibe that I want my business to have.
00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:40.319
Here's I want what I want people to feel.
00:28:40.480 --> 00:28:43.200
Um, here's what I want people to know me for.
00:28:43.359 --> 00:28:46.960
So, like my secret sauce or like the thing that makes me special.
00:28:47.119 --> 00:28:47.920
I already know that.
00:28:48.079 --> 00:28:51.599
I just need to make it more apparent or communicate it more clearly.
00:28:51.759 --> 00:28:54.640
Um, and then the question is now how do I do that?
00:28:54.799 --> 00:28:57.279
So that's usually where I come into the picture.
00:28:57.519 --> 00:29:26.640
And um honestly, my job is to act as that translator, where I have um basically this one-week intensive process where most of the heavy lifting is honestly at the beginning, where I ask very good questions and dig really, really deep, where I like to tell my clients that my job is to get into the tiny little crevices of your brain and just extract the things that you didn't even know existed so that I have all the information I need to execute on your brand.
00:29:26.799 --> 00:29:34.880
So I kind of like I gather all of my clients' current assets just so I could see what they're working on or working with for their brand right now.
00:29:35.119 --> 00:29:41.039
I send them on a little um image scavenger hunt on the internet to send me some inspiration pictures.
00:29:41.200 --> 00:29:48.400
Maybe if they've got some Pinterest boards where they have all of the things that they have for their vision board or um just you know things they like.
00:29:48.559 --> 00:29:50.960
We always like to collect little bits and pieces here.
00:29:51.119 --> 00:30:02.720
I'm like, whatever you like, send it to me so I have an idea of what you mean when you say I like this type of vibe, or when I say I like this type of pattern, here's what it looks like.
00:30:02.960 --> 00:30:21.599
So um we get a really good capture of what they want to communicate, and then the rest is very, very easy, where I basically just create the whole darn thing, I show it back to my client, and then because I have an intensive process where we do everything live on the calls, right on the call, I'll kind of show it to my client.
00:30:21.680 --> 00:30:22.799
I'll be like, what do you think?
00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:24.640
Let's have a conversation about this.
00:30:24.799 --> 00:30:28.240
Just tell me what you're feeling, and then we can make tweaks and adjustments from there.
00:30:28.319 --> 00:30:32.319
And then we basically co-create their band together, which is the super fun part.
00:30:32.480 --> 00:30:37.440
Um, I actually tell my clients, we we cannot cross the finish line without your input.
00:30:37.599 --> 00:30:38.480
So talk to me here.
00:30:38.559 --> 00:30:39.599
Like, what are you thinking?
00:30:39.759 --> 00:30:40.480
What are you feeling?
00:30:40.559 --> 00:30:44.720
If it's completely off, don't worry about hurting my feelings, just give it to me straight.
00:30:44.960 --> 00:30:52.480
My purpose here is to just act as like your hands and feet, and then you could just tell me what you want, and then I'll make it for you.
00:30:52.559 --> 00:30:59.279
So by the time we finish um the last call that we have together, the client has exactly what it is that they're looking for.
00:30:59.359 --> 00:31:06.559
Um and it's just this fun magical process where we get to play together and they get to watch me design live if we end up making tweaks to the brand.
00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:07.519
It's super fun.
00:31:07.839 --> 00:31:08.240
Love it.
00:31:08.319 --> 00:31:09.920
Yeah, I don't get this as much anymore.
00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:17.279
I was always confused when I started out and I had people who were like hesitant to give me feedback, and I'm like, this content is for you.
00:31:17.599 --> 00:31:19.599
I'm not emotionally attached to it.
00:31:19.680 --> 00:31:22.319
So if you want me to make changes, let me know.
00:31:23.039 --> 00:31:23.920
Exactly.
00:31:24.160 --> 00:31:24.880
Exactly.
00:31:25.119 --> 00:31:32.319
I feel like it's very different when you make content for someone else versus it's like a self-expression.
00:31:32.559 --> 00:31:36.000
Um, and drawing from like even the work that I do.
00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:44.240
Like I am an artist, I love drawing and sketching and like a lot of things, but the design work that I do for my clients is completely different.
00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:54.880
And you kind of have to create that separation of, oh, well, when they're giving me feedback, it's because we both agreed we're trying to create something that does XYZ.
00:31:55.119 --> 00:32:00.559
Our job is not to create something that's like it's this isn't like the next Mona Lisa.
00:32:00.799 --> 00:32:02.880
This is not like that kind of masterpiece.
00:32:03.039 --> 00:32:15.759
This is about checking off the boxes of what you want to communicate and then just having a conversation about oh, this design choice checked off uh this aspect that you're trying to communicate because XYZ.
00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:21.440
Um, or oh no, this color that you chose, it doesn't check off these boxes because XYZ.
00:32:21.519 --> 00:32:24.000
So it makes our conversation a whole lot easier.
00:32:24.160 --> 00:32:29.920
So I have to remove the pressure from my clients and tell them one, there are no wrong answers.
00:32:30.079 --> 00:32:32.160
And two, you can tell me it's okay.
00:32:32.240 --> 00:32:35.920
You're not gonna hurt my feelings because our job is to create this.
00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:37.039
This is for you.
00:32:37.279 --> 00:32:45.599
So only you will actually know if we're close to hitting the target on the bullseye or if we're like far left field and we really need to reel it back.
00:32:45.759 --> 00:32:47.519
Um, art is totally different.
00:32:47.599 --> 00:32:50.640
It's like all self-expression, it's whatever you're feeling.
00:32:50.799 --> 00:32:53.599
There are all I technically there's no wrong answers either.
00:32:53.759 --> 00:32:55.920
It's just whatever you feel, you put it out there.
00:32:56.079 --> 00:33:03.599
But when people do critique that, that's when you can, you you have permission to get butthurt when people like your personal art.
00:33:04.799 --> 00:33:08.160
Uh we're gonna have to do this again because this was so much fun.
00:33:08.240 --> 00:33:13.279
And I have a million more questions for you, but I am gonna let you go and let our listeners slash viewers go.
00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:21.279
Uh, so if they want to continue this conversation with you, if they have a bunch more questions for you, if they want to know what it's like to work with you, where can the good people find you?
00:33:21.680 --> 00:33:24.720
Uh yes, I prefer to hang out on Instagram.
00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:27.519
Um, it's got all the fun, flashy, visual stuff.
00:33:27.680 --> 00:33:29.839
I love to update my stories frequently too.
00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:33.279
Um, my handle is Rachel T Y Lee.
00:33:33.440 --> 00:33:36.079
Um, I guess we'll make sure it's in the show notes somewhere.
00:33:36.240 --> 00:33:38.160
Um, I am on LinkedIn as well, though.
00:33:38.319 --> 00:33:42.799
Um, I I feel like most of my conversations with people actually happen on LinkedIn.
00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:47.359
So um you could probably easily search me with my name, but I do have a very generic name.
00:33:47.440 --> 00:33:52.240
So I'll probably make sure I have a link to my LinkedIn profile um available to you guys as well.
00:33:52.400 --> 00:33:55.920
Um, otherwise, you guys are uh welcome to reach me just through my website.
00:33:56.000 --> 00:33:59.039
There's a contact form on there that you guys can also fill out.
00:33:59.119 --> 00:34:01.279
Um it's just rachelty.com.
00:34:01.440 --> 00:34:02.240
Super simple.
00:34:02.559 --> 00:34:03.039
Perfect.
00:34:03.200 --> 00:34:03.599
Love it.
00:34:03.680 --> 00:34:06.480
Yes, and I am, of course, your host, Alison Verhalen.
00:34:06.640 --> 00:34:11.360
You can find me over on my website, A V, as in my initials, Allison Verhalen.
00:34:11.440 --> 00:34:13.679
That is A V Writing Services.com.
00:34:13.840 --> 00:34:17.280
I am mostly on LinkedIn, so that's where you can find me.
00:34:17.440 --> 00:34:19.199
Um and I'm also on YouTube.
00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:24.719
If you're not already watching this on YouTube, come check me out on YouTube at Allison Verhalen Content Marketer.
00:34:25.039 --> 00:34:26.159
Thanks so much, Rachel.
00:34:26.239 --> 00:34:27.280
This was a blast.
00:34:27.840 --> 00:34:28.239
Totally.
00:34:28.400 --> 00:34:29.679
Thank you for having me.
