706: Daniel Lubetzky - KIND Snacks Founder & Shark Tank Investor on Kindness, Grit, Values-Driven Leadership. and Building a Billion-Dollar

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I have just opened applications for our Learning Leader Circle.
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I thought it would be useful to read a testimonial
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from a longtime veteran member of our Learning Leader Circle,
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Amanda Wilson, the founder and CEO of BrightWork. Here's what
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Amanda said. Quote, when I stop and consider the key
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decisions that have been directly additive to the growth of BrightWork,
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pursuing the Learning Leader Circle stands out front and center.
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Since joining, I've become a better leader, more in tune
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with my team and clients, and more conscious of what
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that means for our future. I've experienced 20% growth in
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my business and gained lifelong friendships. Spending time amidst inspirational
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leaders who you learn are facing similar problems, what perspective
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it has brought. Leadership can be lonely. In this group,
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makes leading a journey with a companionship along the way.
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Ryan is a tremendous facilitator of the group discussions, but
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goes above and beyond by providing so many resources. He
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has been instrumental in helping me stay curious and obtain
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professional and financial goals. If you would like to apply
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to be part of our next Learning Leader Circle, go
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to learningleadercircle.com. Welcome to The Learning Leader Show, presented by
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Insight Global. I am your host, Ryan Hawke. Thank you
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so much for being here. Go to learningleader.com for show
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notes of this and all podcast episodes. Go to learningleader.com. Now,
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on to tonight's featured leader. Daniel Lubetzky graduated from Stanford
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Law School. and then declined lucrative job offers to start
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his own business, only paying himself $ 24, 000 a year for
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a decade. But then he found it kind and grew
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it into a snack brand that Mars later valued at
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$ 5 billion and went on to acquire. Today, he invests
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full-time on Shark Tank, And he's the son of a
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Holocaust survivor whose story has shaped everything Daniel has built.
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During our conversation, we discussed the difference between a scarcity
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mindset and one of abundance. Daniel shares a fascinating story
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about how he changed his mind about giving away product
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and how it changed everything for kind. Then he talks
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about the three must-have attributes in an entrepreneur he'll invest
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in on Shark Tank. And towards the end, he gets
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really jacked up talking about the four C's of a
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builder's mindset. So good. Ladies and gentlemen, please enjoy my
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conversation with Daniel Lubetsky. I saw that picture over your
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right shoulder. I did a lot of studying leading up
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to this conversation, and that happens to be a picture
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of your dad. And this just blew me away. I mean,
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they're in your dad, his brother. And your grandfather, so
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your dad's dad, they're together, but they're in, is it
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pronounced Dachau?
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Dachau.
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Dachau, okay. And they're on a death march to be
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pushed off of a cliff? I mean, I was floored.
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So what happened?
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Yeah, so as the allies, the Americans and their allies
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were advancing to liberate both the concentration camps and the
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whole continent of Europe, away from the Nazis and their partners,
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Hitler's people, him and his people came up with something
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called the final solution because they didn't have enough bullets
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to kill all the Jewish inmates they had in all
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the concentration camps. They were going to walk them up
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the cliffs and then push them off so they would
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all die from the mountains. And my dad at that time,
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he was 12 and a half years old when he
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was entered into the concentration camp. My grandfather lied. and
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said that he was born in 1927 instead of 1930
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so that they would let him work. So they thought
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he was 15. But it's 12 and a half when
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he got there, 15 and a half when this story happens.
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But he is six feet tall but weighs less than
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70 pounds. Like he's almost not alive. Like he is,
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you know, one of those people so emaciated. And they
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start walking them. He has no shoes. Part of what
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my grandfather did is get him some, makeshift stuff, because
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other people died on the way. Forget about being thrown
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off the ravine. They died from exhaustion. It's winter conditions.
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People are exhausted. They have no coats or anything. And
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as they get towards the top, a very big snowstorm
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takes over the place. And the Nazis keep marching because
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they figured out these guys are going to die in
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the storm. My father, my grandfather, my uncle hug and
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say goodbye to each other. And the snow covers them,
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but it forms some sort of igloo type situation where
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they stay warm with each other's bodies. They pass out.
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But hours later in the morning, they wake up, cover
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out the snow, come out. Can you imagine like all
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these barely human, subhuman figures coming out of the snow
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and And they look and the Nazis are gone because
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they kept advancing because the allies were coming. So they
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were starving. They started walking towards a town to try
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to get some food. They start walking on the roads
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and they see these tanks approaching and they're like, oh shit,
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there's the Nazis again. But it wasn't the Nazis. It
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was the allies. It was the US allies. And what's
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really funny about the story, Ryan, is they were all
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Japanese Americans. It was the 442nd Battalion, 556th Regiment. I
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hope I'm not messing that up. But Dr. Suito was
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a captain. And these guys have never seen a Japanese person,
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an Asian person, because they live in the little town
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in Eastern Europe. So they don't understand what they're witnessing.
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They don't understand what's going on. Before they figure out
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these are American soldiers saving their lives. This is the
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most highly decorated battalion ever. in history, and it liberated Dachau,
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it liberated a lot more. And my uncle, Larry, ends
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up getting attached to them. He's by then 19. After
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recuperating a little bit, he goes as a translator and
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becomes a lifelong friend of the core people that Dr.
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Suhito and his friends were with. But 70 years later,
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I get a call from my friends like, oh, we're
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sitting with this guy, Dr. Suito, and he shows a
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postcard of this guy named Larry Lubezki. You know Larry Lubezki?
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I'm like, that was my uncle. He had just passed away.
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And so 70 years later, I got reunited with Dr. Suito,
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who went on from being a captain in the U.S.
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Army to be a very, very highly respected doctor and
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scientist at Harvard. And I got to thank him. And
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then unfortunately, I sent him some kind bars, but I
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was preparing to go visit him and his wife. And unfortunately,
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he passed away as I was organizing the trip. So
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I only got to talk to him on the phone,
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but I gave a eulogy at his ceremony. And I
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got to meet his kids and grandkids who I'm still
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in touch with. And my son, Roman, who was named
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after this Roman, came and thanked them also.
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Oh my goodness. What does that story... do for you
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when it comes to like perspective in life or when
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we're feeling sorry for ourselves or complaining about things. And
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then you think about that. They're hugging to stay warm
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and to say goodbye because they're about to die. And
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yet they persevere.
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And I.
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Just can't even imagine how that impacts you from a perspective.
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How does that make you feel?
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Yeah, no, I mean, a thousand things. The power of
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people to change other people's lives, because if it wasn't
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because of Dr. Suito, and those valiant Japanese American soldiers
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whose families were being interned in California. Our government eventually
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apologized for it, but we didn't know if we could
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trust the Japanese Americans. We were interning all these families
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and here are these valiant people and black Americans, right?
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Like the most highly decorated groups were black Americans and
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Japanese Americans experiencing discrimination in their homes and things have
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gotten so much better, but these were very, very heroic
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people And the power that all of us have to
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make a difference and to save people's lives and to
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make people's lives better. And every single day, we're not
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gonna pull off a Dr. Suito every day, but every
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single day when you're walking down the supermarket and you
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look at a person's eyes and you see their humanity
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and you give them love with your eyes and just
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give them kindness. All you need to do is you
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give them kindness. You have no idea what that person's
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been going through and whether you're just going to give
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them a little of a nice sweet flavor or whether
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you're going to change their course of their lives. Last year,
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or maybe it was two years ago, I was at
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a conference on fighting terrorism and hate. And some of
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the people that were presenting were talking about how young
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people that are susceptible to being recruited for horrible crimes
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are are going through difficult times and telling us stories
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about how that human connection changed the course of their
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lives and saved them. And the important work of fighting
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counterterrorism and anti-terrorism involves just our daily lives with just
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being kind people. Just that, if all of us do that,
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we're making a little bit of a headway to prevent
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the haters from recruiting.
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It seems like it impacted you in a big way
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in that you've designed your businesses to get people who,
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I guess, were supposed to fight each other and not
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like each other, but you're going to get them to
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work together and call it a not only for profit,
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which I've never read before until reading about you. So
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this idea of bringing people from different backgrounds who normally
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would literally be fighting a war and killing each other saying, no,
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we're not doing that. We're actually going to work together.
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And my business is, they're going to be a reason
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to get you to come together. I'd love to hear
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more about that philosophy.
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You're talking about peace works.
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Yeah.
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What's interesting is, I'm in Austin here, and these are
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the shelves of success. And in my other office, I
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have the shelves of failure. And I think that's a mistake.
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I'm going to update these shelves to add the PeaceWorks
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products because there's no such thing as failure or success.
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These are false simplifications because I would never have achieved
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what I achieved with Kind if I hadn't achieved what
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I achieved with PeaceWorks, which is a lot of lessons
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and a lot of mistakes from which I learned. When
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I was in college.
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I.
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Wrote my thesis on the influence of economics in resolving
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the Arab-Israeli conflict. And the thesis was that if you
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use business to get neighbors working across lines of difference,
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you would shatter stereotypes, cement relationships, give them a stake
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and an interest in making money together, and then hopefully
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help them discover each other's humanity. It became a very,
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very famous book. in medical circles, because if people were
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having difficulty with insomnia and couldn't fall asleep, you'd give
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them this thick 268 page thesis and they'd fall asleep
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right away because it was like the most theoretical, boring
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thing in the world. But from there, I ended up
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getting a fellowship after law school to actually turn it
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into something. And so I started Peace Shorts where I
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actually got Israelis, Jordanians, Egyptians, Turks, Palestinians to trade with
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one another to make the most iconic brand name I
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ever came up with called Moshe Pupik and Ali Mishmumkin's
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world famous all natural gourmet foods. I still don't know
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why it didn't work out. But that taught me the
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lesson next time to keep it simple and name it kind,
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just four letters and keep it simple. But Moshe and
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Ali's brought together people that to this day to their
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Children's children are friends and they have respect towards one another.
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And they, I just heard that the factory that we
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helped get started, they just shut it down after, I
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don't know, it's 93, like 30 plus years of them cooperating.
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And for business reasons, they shut down that factory. But
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like that venture, there were so many other ventures I
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ended up starting in Sri Lanka and Indonesia and in
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South Africa and Chiapas, Mexico. to try to make a
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little small contribution to helping people work together. But the
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model was what you said, right? And using business to
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not just make money, but to, in a sustainable way,
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heal wounds, build relationships between neighbors in conflict regions, striving
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to coexist. And while kind is what I'm better known for,
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PeaceWorks is what helped me get to kind. Because 10
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years of mistakes, and I'm telling you, Ryan, the amount
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of stupid stuff I did while running Peaceworks, the amount
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of mistakes I made. But thank God that I learned
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the lessons from them, because otherwise I would have not
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been able to figure out kind.
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Were you going door to door making like 20 grand
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a year? I mean, was this right? 24.
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Don't cut my. Oh, sorry. Don't cut me another.
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So you're making 24 grand a year and knocking on doors.
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I have a Stanford law education.
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After going to Stanford law school.
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After going to Stanford law, I have offers from law
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firms to pay me at that time, $ 86, 000 plus the
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wine and dine you. And instead I paid myself $ 24, 000
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and barely could make ends meet. And my team also
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were making $ 24, 000. That's what I could afford. And when
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I started as a one-man operation, and even for many, many,
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many years, I was still doing this. I would start
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on 122nd and Broadway, because Broadway, I determined, was the
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most robust street in terms of amount of supermarkets. So
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it was the most efficient street for me to go
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on in New York City, where the most supermarkets are.
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So I would start on 122nd and Broadway on the
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east side and start walking door by door, store by store,
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walking into the stores with my jars of Sondre Tomas Praté,
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force feeding people like the poor buyers could not escape me.
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I was like, corner them and stay there as long
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as it took to break a piece of bread, force
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feed them. And then they could not resist me. They
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would place an order for $ 36. Then the next door,
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then the next door. And I was making, even in that,
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I don't know, It sounds like a story of resilience.
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It's a story of utter stupidity. Because I was not focused.
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And I would spend two hours trying to convince Mr.
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Kim in the corner store of 84th and Broadway to
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try my product, where I should have walked two more
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blocks and go to the real supermarket rather than the
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tiny bodega and built a proper. So I didn't know
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what I was doing. But one of the lessons from
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that is grid is not enough. You also need width
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and fit. It's the three it's. Grit, wit, and fit.
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Too bad that it's coming from a Mexican-Jewish confused accent,
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but grit, fit, and wit. Grit is that hard work ethic, right?
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Like you have to really push hard. You need to
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really not give up because it is going to be hard.
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When you built Ryan, your business, I'm sure it was
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not automatically a success. You need to put in the work.
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But it's not enough to put in the work. You
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also need to put the mind to figure out what
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you're doing. And so to add the strategic element and
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the width to be creative and outwit the competitors to
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be more creative than them. And then fit, there has
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to be a fit between the product or service and
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what the consumers want.
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Well, I bring up the door-to-door selling, even if it
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maybe wasn't the most wittiest way to go about it.
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But I think dealing with rejection and the willingness to
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keep going, perseverance, as you mentioned before, that kind of
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sets your foundation for the future of what you're going
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to do. I mean, your family history is a story
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of resilience and sticking together and the power of people, right?
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But you going out there and knocking on doors, again,
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even if it wasn't the wisest way to go about it.
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I love what you asked and I love the insight.
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I actually don't think enough about that. You're 100% correct,
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but it's a little bit more complex. Just to be
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clear for anybody that's listening and starting their business, it's
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not like I'm like, yes, I'm going to keep going
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no matter what. Very often, perhaps multiple times a day,
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I ask myself whether I was doing the right thing
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or was a total idiot. The amount of times that
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I cried on my own in my studio apartment, sat
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down and cried because I thought that I had made
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a mistake and that I was Wasting my life away.
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The amount of times that I made mistakes and sometimes
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those rejections that you're talking about, for sure they made
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me who I am and stronger. And maybe I already
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had some of that inside me. And the fact that
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I was so passionate about what I was doing helped
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me give that thing. But some of these people that
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reject you are absolute assholes, right? Some of them, most
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of them, I think 95%, maybe 99% were actually respectful, kind,
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and gave me a hand. But some of them were
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so demeaning, so disrespectful. I still remember a couple of
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them were just so, like they created holes inside me
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of insecurity and of pain, you know, because I was
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doing this work of love to bring people together, leaving
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away my law school career to try to build peace
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in the Middle East once. So I'm going to spread
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it a time. And I believed in my mission. I
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believe what I was doing, what I was making a difference.
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And some people were so demeaning and such jerks. And
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they take the wind out of you. And you need
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to just understand that's par for the process, that you
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need to be strong, love yourself from the inside, even
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in spite of the rejections. And please do not assume
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that I was invincible and that I was not susceptible
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to feelings. And by the way, it's even more complex
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because some of their advice of these jerks was good.
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Think about that. Like there was one guy, I'm not
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going to say names. He thinks he's my buddy still
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today when he's, oh, I remember you so fondly. He
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was an asshole to me, but his advice was good.
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He was not nice the way he delivered the feedback.
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Once we were at a trade show and he'd stopped
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me and said, stop, stop. You're just way too pushy.
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Give me space. Leave me alone. Get out of my life.
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You just need to give people space. And I was like, whoa,
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that was, can you imagine how that hits you when
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you're like a 25, 26 year old dreamy eyed person
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that's trying to make a difference? It broke me. I
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was broken. But then I reflect and I was like,
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you know what? He's right. You cannot just be push, push, push.
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You need to let people in. You need to let people,
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give people the space and be smarter. Because when you're
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doing sales, when you're doing anything, The ultra passive person,
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you don't want to be that. They're just watching the
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world happen. Don't lean in. You don't want to be that.
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But if all you do is lean in and push, push, push,
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then you're just annoying. So you need to find the
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balance and the magic and the creativity to be sufficiently
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persistent and loved for it. And that is very hard.
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That is not easy to do.
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You said the word magic. That comes from you as
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a kid in Mexico City. Is that right? You learned
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some magic. How did magic play a role in your
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life and your upbringing?
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Well, I told you my dad didn't really have a childhood.
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When the war started, he was nine. When he was
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sent to concentration, he was 12 and a half. He
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was sent before that to a ghetto and to horrible conditions.
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So he only had a third grade education. And he
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was full of wonder. It was fascinating about him. We
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named the company Kind after him because he passed away
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the year that we were about to launch Kind that we,
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what was special about him is that in spite of
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all of the suffering that he went through, he was
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kind to everybody and he only saw kindness in people.
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He was a very special person and he loved magic
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and he always used to teach me little tricks. I
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used to ask him, dad, teach me, teach me, teach me.
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And eventually he taught me a couple of things here
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and there and a little more. And so that was
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a language he and I used. That was our shared hobby.
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And so we would go to magic conferences and watch
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magic shows and then He would buy me a book
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and then another book about magic. Ever since I was
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eight years old, started doing magic shows and magic tricks.
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And till today, it's a big hobby of mine.
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Is it one of the few things that you get really,
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really prepared for? Did I hear that right? What's this
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all about? Really?
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You prepared, right? And that's impressive. I love when, you know,
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as you know, I'm about to launch Build or Break.
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So I'm entering your space of conversations and you have
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a really magical way. Build or Break is... a show
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where I'm taking all of my lessons and the lessons
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of the most extraordinary builders out there. Some of the
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most amazing people. I just did one with Matthew McConaughey.
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It was magical. I did Kevin O'Leary. Kevin O'Leary cried
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like you've never seen them cry before. Like he opened
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up and shared some introspective lessons. And the show is
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called Build or Break because it's talking about those difficult
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moments that could have broken you, but built you instead
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of who you are. But what I've learned in my,
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I've done, you've done 700 interviews. I've done 30 so far.
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What I've learned is what you do, prepare, but listen.
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And you do that beautifully. The way you are, you
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have a lot of background, but you're listening to the
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guest and then connecting to where they are. So I
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really like your style. I have to learn more of
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your tricks, but yeah. I used to do magic shows
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for my entire team. We had like a team of
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500 or maybe a hundred of them were at a
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trade show and we would have a dinner and I
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would prepare a mentalism routine and I didn't want to
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screw it up. So I would really work at it.
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I've realized I prepare for anything that I'm not prepared for.
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I love winging it. It's just my personality, my style.
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I love winging it. I hate having to prepare, but
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I am disciplined enough that if there's something I don't know,
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I will put in the work today, tomorrow, and the
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day after. That's my Personally, I want to deliver the
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best I can deliver. So, for example, for Build or Break,
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it's been so much growth for me because it's hard.
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Because as you can tell, I love just talking. And
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you ask me, you're the job of Ryan. To you
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guys might seem, oh, whatever. This is Daniel's show. It
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is so hard to do what Ryan does. It seems simple.
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But after every one of my interviews, I need an
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hour to just decompress because I'm actively listening. And actively
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listening takes a lot of energy. You're listening for the cues.
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Stephen Bartlett gave me this advice, which we talk about
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on the show, about how do you listen? How do
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you interview? So every one of the Build or Break interviews,
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I go deep into the area of excellence of any
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particular person. We learn from their toolkit. So how do
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you become an active listener? How do you become creative?
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How do you become the best actor? How do you
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become the best entrepreneur? It's just, if I had to
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recommend anything for my kids to hear, It'd be the
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Randhawk show and then the Build or Break podcast.
425
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That's awesome. I think you could probably, you know how
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this feels. It's really cool to be able to do
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the thing that provides for your family and it happens
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to be your favorite thing to do. So I was
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talking about the concentric circles of life and when there's overlap, yeah, man,
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it makes this really, really fun. So it's neat.
431
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100%, 100%.
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I was talking to my son recently.
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A few days ago and he's started his own business
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at that. What I love about this is, this is
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my hobby. Like I enjoy every minute of it in
436
00:24:33.960 --> 00:24:36.960
the Scott Galloway. Are you familiar with Scott?
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Yeah. I've had him on a few times.
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So he has this thing where he talks about it.
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If you're pursuing your passion, that's probably some rich person's advice,
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but no, the whole point is, and Scott is a
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very dear friend of mine, but my point is If
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you enjoy what you're doing, you're so much more likely
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to kick ass at it and to do well with it.
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And also, you're already winning, like you, because you're doing
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something that every morning you get up and you're doing
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something that's satisfying. Find something that gives you energy, purpose,
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meaning that's your hobby. You know what the danger is
448
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with that?
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What?
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The thing you overwork. Like when I was building Peaceworks
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and Kind, you just do so much for it because
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you love it so much. So you need to... Pays yourself.
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Well, you're right. You get a few extra hours on
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a Sunday afternoon. Maybe your kids are taking a nap
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or whatever. You're like, I'm going to go to work.
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But it's not because I feel like I have to.
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It's because I legitimately want to do that more than
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anything else.
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Other than being with your kids.
460
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Well, yeah. So they're taking a nap or something, you know?
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Other than your kids? Ages 19, 18, 17, and 11.
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So you have four like me. Five, actually. There's twins
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in there.
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Well, I have twins too, but total four.
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Yeah, I know. It's awesome.
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But there's a lot of craft in learning the art
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of listening and interviewing. It's very hard.
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I'm glad you said that because I think the skill,
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which it is a skill, of being a good active
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listener is something we all can get better at. It
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takes repetitions. You've got 30 of them formally now recording
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and more coming and obviously the rest of your life too.
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But how has that impacted you as a communicator, as
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a leader, as a dad, actively building and intentionally building
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the skill of being an active listener?
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Yeah, this is one of my greatest opportunities. I talk
477
00:26:30.440 --> 00:26:33.119
in Build or Break, and the common theme that I
478
00:26:33.900 --> 00:26:38.980
detect from all of these most extraordinary people, like on
479
00:26:39.019 --> 00:26:42.410
Build or Break, we're interviewing incredible people who have accomplished
480
00:26:42.430 --> 00:26:44.490
so much. The lead singer of Empire of the Song,
481
00:26:44.529 --> 00:26:48.190
Luke Steele, Jose Andres, a humanitarian, a ton of incredible
482
00:26:48.230 --> 00:26:51.490
entrepreneurs that built from nothing and fell and fell. Chris
483
00:26:51.549 --> 00:26:53.470
Paul from, oh my God, I'm going to get in
484
00:26:53.509 --> 00:26:56.269
trouble because I'm starting to share names that have not
485
00:26:56.309 --> 00:26:59.269
been publicly disclosed. Okay, now you really have an exclusive run.
486
00:27:00.130 --> 00:27:03.119
But we have 30 incredible people so far and more coming.
487
00:27:03.950 --> 00:27:06.579
And the common theme that I notice about this is
488
00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:09.539
people put in the work and then have a positive
489
00:27:09.799 --> 00:27:15.200
attitude to make the best of it. And so for me, listening...
490
00:27:15.789 --> 00:27:18.210
I have to acknowledge that it's not my greatest strength,
491
00:27:18.609 --> 00:27:20.210
and then I have to lean in to try to
492
00:27:20.250 --> 00:27:23.230
get better at it. And that's the sign of people
493
00:27:23.250 --> 00:27:26.829
that have achieved a lot is being introspective, understanding what's
494
00:27:26.869 --> 00:27:29.250
not working, and then putting in the work to make
495
00:27:29.289 --> 00:27:31.670
it a little bit better. And listening has helped me
496
00:27:31.710 --> 00:27:34.960
with my children. I'm not perfect still. I have way
497
00:27:35.339 --> 00:27:39.079
more work to be done. But I have become better
498
00:27:39.579 --> 00:27:42.809
at the dinner table. With my team, my team might
499
00:27:42.910 --> 00:27:44.509
complain that I'm still not there.
500
00:27:44.890 --> 00:27:46.609
What do you mean by getting better at the dinner table?
501
00:27:46.950 --> 00:27:51.519
Asking better questions, asking follow-up questions, listening, all of the above.
502
00:27:51.559 --> 00:27:52.000
What do you mean?
503
00:27:52.720 --> 00:27:57.720
My personality is that of someone that always wants to
504
00:27:57.779 --> 00:28:00.480
be a protagonist. I want to be part of what's
505
00:28:00.500 --> 00:28:03.980
going on. I got spoiled by founding kind from a
506
00:28:04.099 --> 00:28:07.779
one-person operation where I was alone in the windowless basement
507
00:28:08.180 --> 00:28:10.890
of my building and to an entity that had hundreds
508
00:28:10.930 --> 00:28:14.349
and hundreds of team members full of joy, like hanging
509
00:28:14.390 --> 00:28:16.490
by my words for the most part, not all of them,
510
00:28:16.519 --> 00:28:19.160
but plenty of them. And so I get spoiled by
511
00:28:19.220 --> 00:28:21.980
wanting that. And my kids, guess what? They want to
512
00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:25.240
talk about their football practice and they're talking to each
513
00:28:25.339 --> 00:28:29.160
other and I'm just observing and I would like to
514
00:28:29.200 --> 00:28:31.390
be part of the conversation. And so all of a
515
00:28:31.430 --> 00:28:35.190
sudden I'm learning the skill to listen and to gain
516
00:28:35.230 --> 00:28:37.289
more knowledge and to be a little bit more patient
517
00:28:37.369 --> 00:28:40.029
and to then know how to ask questions. And be
518
00:28:40.130 --> 00:28:43.950
part of that without having to be that, without me
519
00:28:43.990 --> 00:28:47.019
being at the center of attention asking questions. My dad,
520
00:28:47.089 --> 00:28:50.039
going back to my dad, was the best interviewer because
521
00:28:50.059 --> 00:28:52.359
he was a coach. He always was there to listen.
522
00:28:53.339 --> 00:28:55.079
And when I was talking to him and I would
523
00:28:55.119 --> 00:28:57.420
ask him a question, he would come back with another question.
524
00:28:58.099 --> 00:29:00.660
And he would just let me figure out the answers.
525
00:29:00.700 --> 00:29:04.619
And that's the deepest way for you to really, really evolve.
526
00:29:05.319 --> 00:29:07.380
is for you to ask yourself questions. So a great
527
00:29:07.599 --> 00:29:10.680
interviewer or a great coach or a great parent doesn't
528
00:29:10.940 --> 00:29:13.619
tell you what to do, which is the easier skill
529
00:29:13.640 --> 00:29:16.319
that comes easy for me. It helps you ask the
530
00:29:16.380 --> 00:29:18.319
questions you need to ask yourself for you to figure
531
00:29:18.359 --> 00:29:18.920
out what to do.
532
00:29:20.059 --> 00:29:22.519
As you know, Daniel, I think parents can relate to this.
533
00:29:23.000 --> 00:29:26.539
Kids are the greatest in the world at making sure
534
00:29:26.599 --> 00:29:30.420
you always stay humble. No matter what you've accomplished, you
535
00:29:30.460 --> 00:29:34.430
create these incredible businesses and make billions of dollars, they
536
00:29:34.470 --> 00:29:34.930
don't care.
537
00:29:35.509 --> 00:29:37.849
And it's as it should be. It's not just that
538
00:29:37.869 --> 00:29:40.869
they don't care, it is one of the most valuable
539
00:29:42.009 --> 00:29:46.309
aspects because it keeps you grounded and it keeps you human.
540
00:29:46.349 --> 00:29:49.670
And you need someone to run yourself, whether your kids
541
00:29:49.710 --> 00:29:51.769
or your spouse or your partner or your team members
542
00:29:52.410 --> 00:29:55.339
that can call you out when you're starting to think that,
543
00:29:56.640 --> 00:29:59.099
is it too crude to say that your shit doesn't smell?
544
00:29:59.680 --> 00:30:02.799
I don't normally use that expression, but that. Yeah.
545
00:30:03.180 --> 00:30:05.480
No, you're right. You're right. We all need truth tellers
546
00:30:05.500 --> 00:30:08.200
in our lives. Kids are, I found to be some
547
00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:11.279
of the best because they'll love you and be there
548
00:30:11.299 --> 00:30:13.539
with you. But I think if they stopped making fun
549
00:30:13.559 --> 00:30:15.380
of you or they put you on a pedestal, that
550
00:30:15.400 --> 00:30:19.289
would be a really weird day. I would not feel good.
551
00:30:19.369 --> 00:30:21.069
Your kids are there to keep you humble. Okay. I
552
00:30:21.069 --> 00:30:24.869
want to go back to actually 2002. You're training for
553
00:30:24.910 --> 00:30:27.569
the New York City Marathon and you're like looking around
554
00:30:27.609 --> 00:30:31.890
for like healthy kids. and great tasting snacks, and you're
555
00:30:32.029 --> 00:30:35.240
struggling to find them. What did you decide to do
556
00:30:35.319 --> 00:30:35.819
about that?
557
00:30:36.660 --> 00:30:38.799
Well, I tell that story and I tell a couple
558
00:30:38.839 --> 00:30:44.220
other stories as anchor moments in my recognition that there
559
00:30:44.289 --> 00:30:49.089
needed to be a healthy snack that was portable, wholesome,
560
00:30:49.130 --> 00:30:51.509
and convenient. Like that was the genesis of my idea
561
00:30:51.549 --> 00:30:55.470
that what eventually led me to kind, because like when
562
00:30:55.490 --> 00:30:58.009
you're running a marathon and you're being served up all
563
00:30:58.029 --> 00:31:02.309
these artificial gobbledygook stuff or stuff that doesn't look like food.
564
00:31:03.069 --> 00:31:05.289
Or in any occasion where you're in the airport or whatever,
565
00:31:05.349 --> 00:31:07.829
what a lot of people don't know is that in
566
00:31:07.849 --> 00:31:11.190
the 90s, late 90s, early 2000s, there was no healthy
567
00:31:11.230 --> 00:31:13.609
snack set that didn't exist in the stores and the
568
00:31:13.630 --> 00:31:17.859
airports and whatever. That did not exist. Your options were
569
00:31:17.890 --> 00:31:21.319
either stuff that looked like astronaut food and tasted like
570
00:31:21.460 --> 00:31:26.380
astronaut food or stuff that was completely indulgent and devoid
571
00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:30.720
of or healthy calories or nutritionally dense calories. And so
572
00:31:30.940 --> 00:31:33.119
I was on the lookout for creating a product that
573
00:31:33.160 --> 00:31:36.839
could fit my needs when I was skipping lunch or dinner,
574
00:31:37.319 --> 00:31:39.579
a healthy snack that was wholesome and convenient that when
575
00:31:39.599 --> 00:31:41.299
you ate it, you could feel good about it. And
576
00:31:41.799 --> 00:31:44.240
that was what led us to Lunch Kind.
577
00:31:44.599 --> 00:31:47.839
So there's so many different parts of the Kind story. One,
578
00:31:47.980 --> 00:31:51.269
I'm curious, you mentioned it about your dad, but naming
579
00:31:51.400 --> 00:31:54.690
things is very important. We've already talked about this. How
580
00:31:54.710 --> 00:31:55.670
do you like, you know what? It's going to be
581
00:31:55.690 --> 00:31:57.910
called Kind. What's the story behind that?
582
00:31:58.369 --> 00:32:01.190
Well, the funny part is that when Sasha Herr and
583
00:32:01.289 --> 00:32:03.390
I were, she was my head of marketing at the
584
00:32:03.410 --> 00:32:05.599
time and we were riffing on what to call it.
585
00:32:06.309 --> 00:32:08.180
I need to find this page. I haven't found it,
586
00:32:08.180 --> 00:32:11.940
but we had like 80 ideas and every one of
587
00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:15.799
the other ideas were stupid. And by the way, it's
588
00:32:15.880 --> 00:32:18.569
not a foregone conclusion that we would have focused on
589
00:32:18.609 --> 00:32:22.650
the word kind. And we have words like
590
00:32:22.690 --> 00:32:29.700

591
00:32:29.720 --> 00:32:36.569

592
00:32:36.589 --> 00:32:42.470

593
00:32:42.509 --> 00:32:49.490

594
00:32:49.519 --> 00:32:53.180
At that point, that's
595
00:32:53.200 --> 00:32:56.240
what we have stumbled upon, a fruit not bar, but
596
00:32:56.400 --> 00:32:58.740
kind deserve to be more. And we were very blessed.
597
00:32:58.819 --> 00:33:02.720
Thanks also to Sasha, to a lot of my self-reflection
598
00:33:02.740 --> 00:33:06.940
about losing my dad. And around that time, like we
599
00:33:06.980 --> 00:33:09.799
were looking for a word that could describe the three
600
00:33:09.900 --> 00:33:12.519
pillars of our brand, which turned out to be kind
601
00:33:12.599 --> 00:33:16.539
to your body, helpful, kind to your taste buds, delicious,
602
00:33:17.220 --> 00:33:20.319
and kind to the world, socially responsible, trying to make
603
00:33:20.380 --> 00:33:23.450
a small contribution to make this world a little bit kinder,
604
00:33:24.359 --> 00:33:27.900
one snack and one act at a time. That language
605
00:33:27.960 --> 00:33:30.940
came much later, but that's what it became. But when
606
00:33:30.980 --> 00:33:33.539
my dad passed away, like it just became obvious that
607
00:33:34.240 --> 00:33:38.009
the adjective that best described him, anytime you met anybody
608
00:33:38.049 --> 00:33:40.910
still today that was implicated in my dad, he was
609
00:33:41.029 --> 00:33:43.710
the kindest man. And he saw his mission in his
610
00:33:43.769 --> 00:33:47.109
life of bringing smiles to others. And all of a sudden,
611
00:33:47.650 --> 00:33:48.880
and this is the year 2003, where my dad died.
612
00:33:51.920 --> 00:33:56.339
And what we're thinking of packing up our bags, again,
613
00:33:56.380 --> 00:33:59.069
in terms of like not giving up, Ryan, or it
614
00:33:59.119 --> 00:34:01.619
wasn't like it was all a straight line to success,
615
00:34:01.660 --> 00:34:05.849
the opposite. We had just lost a huge account with
616
00:34:05.890 --> 00:34:10.170
our prior business because the predecessor product we're selling, we
617
00:34:10.190 --> 00:34:12.530
didn't control the manufacturing at the time and they had
618
00:34:12.570 --> 00:34:16.530
added sorbitol and sulfur dioxide. And so we had lost
619
00:34:16.769 --> 00:34:20.150
all of our business for that product line. And we
620
00:34:20.210 --> 00:34:24.659
were barely making ends meet. We had like six or
621
00:34:24.699 --> 00:34:28.199
seven team members, myself included. We sat around the table
622
00:34:28.280 --> 00:34:31.239
and we said, do we give this one last shot
623
00:34:32.019 --> 00:34:34.300
or we just pack our bags and I'll give you
624
00:34:34.340 --> 00:34:36.239
guys two, three months to go look for a job.
625
00:34:36.260 --> 00:34:37.920
I'll go do the same. I'll look for a job
626
00:34:37.960 --> 00:34:41.829
and then we'll call it a day. And we voted.
627
00:34:41.949 --> 00:34:44.590
And part of me wanted to just be throwing the
628
00:34:44.630 --> 00:34:46.909
towel and just give up because it had been 10
629
00:34:46.909 --> 00:34:51.000
years of a very, very tough journey. And maybe part
630
00:34:51.019 --> 00:34:53.300
of me wanted to go on. Maybe I lied to
631
00:34:53.340 --> 00:34:56.059
myself that I seriously considered giving up. But we seriously
632
00:34:56.119 --> 00:34:59.639
took that vote. We literally took that vote. And all
633
00:34:59.679 --> 00:35:01.500
of us said, all right, let's give this one last shot.
634
00:35:02.659 --> 00:35:07.010
And then all of a sudden, from the greatest darkness
635
00:35:07.260 --> 00:35:11.329
of losing my best friend, my mentor, my dad, and
636
00:35:11.409 --> 00:35:15.750
just being so sad to lose him, And a business
637
00:35:15.789 --> 00:35:17.670
that barely can make some meat all of a sudden
638
00:35:17.710 --> 00:35:20.090
kind of gets launched and it just takes over.
639
00:35:21.349 --> 00:35:24.280
I love the idea of the story behind sampling. So
640
00:35:25.320 --> 00:35:28.420
your budget for sampling was like 800 bucks and you
641
00:35:28.440 --> 00:35:30.980
viewed it as a cost and you got some advice
642
00:35:31.039 --> 00:35:34.039
to say, wait a second, this stuff is so good.
643
00:35:34.079 --> 00:35:36.300
You just got to get people to taste it. Let's
644
00:35:36.659 --> 00:35:42.159
dramatically increase the sampling budget so that people can taste it.
645
00:35:42.170 --> 00:35:45.309
And once they do all of a sudden That feels
646
00:35:45.329 --> 00:35:48.949
like an inflection point. So the power of sampling, I'm
647
00:35:48.989 --> 00:35:50.519
curious about your thoughts on that.
648
00:35:51.079 --> 00:35:52.980
Yeah, but with a caveat, it needs to be the
649
00:35:53.019 --> 00:35:55.420
right mousetrap because if you start sampling the wrong thing,
650
00:35:55.480 --> 00:35:58.099
it won't work. And I talk about a lot of
651
00:35:58.139 --> 00:36:01.719
these tools on Build or Break, both advice that I
652
00:36:01.780 --> 00:36:04.320
have for my journey, but also that some of these
653
00:36:04.360 --> 00:36:07.820
extraordinary people have. And we go practical. We talk a
654
00:36:07.860 --> 00:36:10.550
little bit of the strategic and spiritual and everything, but
655
00:36:11.150 --> 00:36:13.570
we provide very practical tools. And I talk a lot
656
00:36:13.590 --> 00:36:17.730
about sampling because it's misunderstood art form. And just to simplify,
657
00:36:18.710 --> 00:36:21.630
you first want to make sure that if somebody samples
658
00:36:21.670 --> 00:36:24.039
your product, they're going to enjoy it and recommend it
659
00:36:24.059 --> 00:36:27.159
to friends. Because if you're sampling something that only one
660
00:36:27.199 --> 00:36:29.610
out of 10 people like... you're going to lose your
661
00:36:29.670 --> 00:36:32.929
shirt giving all these free samples. Only 10% are going
662
00:36:32.949 --> 00:36:35.469
to want to consider buying it again. You need to
663
00:36:35.510 --> 00:36:37.869
make sure that that number goes up to five out
664
00:36:37.889 --> 00:36:39.639
of 10, six out of 10, seven out of 10.
665
00:36:39.639 --> 00:36:42.000
In Kind's case, nine out of 10 people that tried
666
00:36:42.039 --> 00:36:44.420
a Kind bar, it was like, oh my God, I
667
00:36:44.460 --> 00:36:47.739
want to buy more. And they were our ambassadors. They
668
00:36:47.760 --> 00:36:49.619
were the ones saying, so it was a no brainer.
669
00:36:49.659 --> 00:36:54.619
But I had been mistrained by myself because during the
670
00:36:54.699 --> 00:36:56.460
Peace Rocks years, where as you know, Ryan, I have
671
00:36:57.059 --> 00:37:00.159
no money, everything was a cost center. And so I
672
00:37:00.159 --> 00:37:02.920
had developed a scarcity mentality. And I talk about this
673
00:37:02.960 --> 00:37:05.360
a lot on Build or Break, about the different tools
674
00:37:05.420 --> 00:37:07.659
on how to build a business and think about this stuff.
675
00:37:08.079 --> 00:37:11.920
But a scarcity mentality is definitely better than a glutinous mentality, right?
676
00:37:11.960 --> 00:37:15.309
Like an overspending mentality where you're just wasting money. A
677
00:37:15.369 --> 00:37:19.369
wasteful mentality, a wasteful money culture is just going to
678
00:37:19.429 --> 00:37:20.809
run you to the ground. You're going to run out
679
00:37:20.849 --> 00:37:23.610
of business. A scarcity mentality is going to help you
680
00:37:23.630 --> 00:37:25.590
preserve every dollar, but it's not going to fulfill your
681
00:37:25.630 --> 00:37:30.340
potential because everything is cost-centered to you, you're missing opportunities.
682
00:37:30.719 --> 00:37:34.219
The right thing is in the middle, a resourceful culture
683
00:37:34.340 --> 00:37:37.550
and mindset where you're thinking like an owner and you're
684
00:37:37.590 --> 00:37:40.010
not wasting money. If you can do it for less,
685
00:37:40.110 --> 00:37:42.889
do it for less. But sometimes you want to invest
686
00:37:42.949 --> 00:37:45.559
in that growth. And so sampling was a good example of,
687
00:37:46.010 --> 00:37:48.239
I saw it as a cost center and I hadn't
688
00:37:48.280 --> 00:37:50.440
realized that it was an investment opportunity. And once we
689
00:37:50.480 --> 00:37:53.119
started sampling, we went from $ 800 in 2008 to $ 800, 000
690
00:37:53.019 --> 00:37:58.960
in 2009. to $ 20 million in free product within a
691
00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:01.519
few years. And that made all the difference in our
692
00:38:01.539 --> 00:38:03.280
scaling to a multi-billion dollar company.
693
00:38:03.880 --> 00:38:07.929
You eventually decide to sell on different, I know, not
694
00:38:07.989 --> 00:38:10.769
all at once. So you become this guy who was
695
00:38:10.809 --> 00:38:15.610
making 24,000 bucks a year, knocking on doors to a billionaire.
696
00:38:15.730 --> 00:38:21.010
I mean, that's a dramatic change. How did that change you?
697
00:38:22.090 --> 00:38:27.679
So first of all, there's a difference between the liquidity event,
698
00:38:28.550 --> 00:38:32.480
and the paper money, right? So I, prior to selling Kind,
699
00:38:32.500 --> 00:38:34.960
I already had achieved a lot of success and I
700
00:38:34.960 --> 00:38:38.460
already have a lot of those resources. In my case,
701
00:38:38.719 --> 00:38:43.820
it was true that I was much more conservative because
702
00:38:44.099 --> 00:38:46.599
in my nature, I also, I don't, still today, to
703
00:38:46.619 --> 00:38:50.199
be clear, Ryan, I do not throw away food, perhaps
704
00:38:50.239 --> 00:38:53.059
because of what my father went through, perhaps because of
705
00:38:53.079 --> 00:38:56.670
how they taught me, but I will not, waste. So
706
00:38:56.789 --> 00:38:58.800
I find it very important to teach my kids not
707
00:38:58.840 --> 00:39:00.780
to waste. If you want to be a good entrepreneur,
708
00:39:01.280 --> 00:39:03.980
I wrote an op-ed on the Washington Post. I encourage
709
00:39:04.219 --> 00:39:10.039
everybody to read it about frugality and resourcefulness because it's
710
00:39:10.199 --> 00:39:12.840
so dumb in this culture to think that, oh, you
711
00:39:12.860 --> 00:39:16.130
should be just spending and that if you're saving money,
712
00:39:16.750 --> 00:39:20.230
you're a loser. I just don't understand why people think that.
713
00:39:20.909 --> 00:39:23.110
You're not going to be able to build a healthy
714
00:39:23.150 --> 00:39:26.360
home or a healthy business. Yes, I do think that
715
00:39:26.440 --> 00:39:28.210
once you have a liquidity event and when you have
716
00:39:28.230 --> 00:39:31.050
the money in the bank, you start taking care of
717
00:39:31.090 --> 00:39:34.820
yourself a little bit more. And, you know, I didn't
718
00:39:35.199 --> 00:39:42.219
own an apartment or any housing till past 45 or something.
719
00:39:42.380 --> 00:39:44.539
Like I didn't own any real estate till I was
720
00:39:45.300 --> 00:39:48.869
in my mid forties or something. We didn't have a car.
721
00:39:48.929 --> 00:39:50.429
We had one and then we sold it and we
722
00:39:50.710 --> 00:39:51.989
for a while didn't have a car. Then we had
723
00:39:52.110 --> 00:39:57.840
one modest car. And still today we don't, in our style,
724
00:39:57.920 --> 00:39:59.639
by the way, we live very well. We have an
725
00:39:59.699 --> 00:40:04.940
incredible home and vacation home and we're ridiculously blessed and
726
00:40:05.599 --> 00:40:08.440
we cannot complain. We take very good care of ourselves.
727
00:40:09.260 --> 00:40:12.469
I'd like to say that I live within my means.
728
00:40:13.380 --> 00:40:16.239
and that I always try to remember that you never
729
00:40:16.280 --> 00:40:20.639
know and never be wasteful. We certainly, in our decisions,
730
00:40:21.579 --> 00:40:26.710
I spend far more time and money on Camino Partners,
731
00:40:26.750 --> 00:40:30.230
which is our investment platform, our business, and on the
732
00:40:30.269 --> 00:40:33.309
Builders Movement and the Lubetzky Family Foundation, which is what
733
00:40:33.329 --> 00:40:37.780
tries to give back, than I do on just pampering myself.
734
00:40:38.449 --> 00:40:40.840
I haven't yet bought a plane. I talk about it,
735
00:40:40.880 --> 00:40:43.900
I think about it, but I've resisted it. I like
736
00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:49.769
flying commercial. Sometimes if the schedule's bad and the plane
737
00:40:49.809 --> 00:40:53.190
gets delayed, I'm like, oh, damn you, Daniel. Why are
738
00:40:53.210 --> 00:40:56.150
you trying to be such a dummy just by the plane?
739
00:40:56.550 --> 00:40:59.389
But as a general thing, I like to do things
740
00:40:59.469 --> 00:41:04.760
to stay connected. And I actually think airports are the
741
00:41:04.820 --> 00:41:07.840
places where you see so much kindness. Of course, sometimes
742
00:41:07.880 --> 00:41:10.940
you see jerks. If you're on social media, sometimes you
743
00:41:11.380 --> 00:41:14.130
get down these rabbit holes of, Everybody hating each other
744
00:41:14.190 --> 00:41:16.050
and all this political stuff where they're hating each other.
745
00:41:16.369 --> 00:41:18.070
And you go to the airport, people are kind to
746
00:41:18.090 --> 00:41:21.099
each other and nice. And I like, I like connecting
747
00:41:21.139 --> 00:41:21.619
with people.
748
00:41:22.340 --> 00:41:24.059
Well, one of the ways that you connect with people
749
00:41:24.099 --> 00:41:27.079
and that you help other people, and I've loved getting
750
00:41:27.119 --> 00:41:29.019
a chance to watch this is Shark Tank. It's one
751
00:41:29.039 --> 00:41:32.000
of my family's favorite shows. And to see like your
752
00:41:32.059 --> 00:41:35.239
style versus Mr. Wonderful, who you just talked about. What
753
00:41:35.260 --> 00:41:36.940
you could tell, like some of those people who are
754
00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:39.519
the most passionate and sometimes come off as like a
755
00:41:39.559 --> 00:41:42.599
character also can be very emotional, which I love seeing
756
00:41:42.639 --> 00:41:47.050
that range. When you're on Shark Tank and you're thinking
757
00:41:47.110 --> 00:41:51.690
about investing in somebody, I use that phrase on purpose,
758
00:41:51.849 --> 00:41:55.670
investing in somebody. It feels to me like your style
759
00:41:55.750 --> 00:41:59.309
is more about the people and maybe less about the
760
00:41:59.429 --> 00:42:03.389
numbers and or the idea because you're like a people person.
761
00:42:04.260 --> 00:42:05.400
And I'm not trying to put words in your mouth,
762
00:42:05.420 --> 00:42:08.500
but you feel like a people-centered guy who cares for others,
763
00:42:08.860 --> 00:42:11.960
is kind, and wants to support someone who looks like
764
00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:14.320
they have the attributes of like, let's go build this
765
00:42:14.360 --> 00:42:16.969
cool thing. Is that how you approach Shark Tank or
766
00:42:17.050 --> 00:42:18.750
what is your overall philosophy?
767
00:42:18.969 --> 00:42:22.489
Well, it's evolving. It's evolving. But yes, directionally, yes. But
768
00:42:22.510 --> 00:42:25.289
I want to give an ode of joy to Mr.
769
00:42:25.329 --> 00:42:29.670
Wonderful for a second. I think he's an underappreciated genius,
770
00:42:29.730 --> 00:42:32.469
and I'll tell you why. First of all, he's like
771
00:42:33.239 --> 00:42:35.739
the glue that makes this thing work because he's comfortable
772
00:42:35.760 --> 00:42:38.559
being the jerk and the tough guy and saying what
773
00:42:38.579 --> 00:42:41.139
needs to be said sometimes when others are uncomfortable. It's
774
00:42:41.159 --> 00:42:42.800
the hardest job and he does it in a very
775
00:42:42.840 --> 00:42:44.820
witty way. And yes, by the way, I do think
776
00:42:44.860 --> 00:42:47.329
it's the essence of his personality to say what needs
777
00:42:47.349 --> 00:42:50.510
to be said, but obviously he over-dramatizes it for TV
778
00:42:50.570 --> 00:42:53.670
and plays it up a little bit. But I believe
779
00:42:53.710 --> 00:42:57.809
he's one of the most loyal people and very bright
780
00:42:57.969 --> 00:43:00.599
and a man of the world and And there is
781
00:43:00.619 --> 00:43:03.280
a role for the Kevin O'Leary's of the world. We're
782
00:43:03.340 --> 00:43:05.869
just gonna tell it like it is. Because if all
783
00:43:05.909 --> 00:43:09.769
you do is just be nice, then you're not being kind.
784
00:43:10.250 --> 00:43:12.570
You understand the difference between being nice and being kind?
785
00:43:13.369 --> 00:43:18.750
If you're nice, you're polite and you're not saying uncomfortable things.
786
00:43:18.769 --> 00:43:22.210
But if you're kind, you're honest. If you're nice, it
787
00:43:22.250 --> 00:43:25.030
doesn't cost you. It's easy. You can be weak and nice,
788
00:43:25.429 --> 00:43:27.949
but to be kind, you need to be strong. There's
789
00:43:27.969 --> 00:43:31.130
a huge difference between being nice and not causing problems
790
00:43:31.190 --> 00:43:34.530
and being kind and solving problems. Between being nice and
791
00:43:34.550 --> 00:43:36.949
not bothering people, not saying things and being kind and
792
00:43:36.989 --> 00:43:40.389
giving honest feedback that's gonna help people grow. Between being
793
00:43:40.449 --> 00:43:42.789
nice and just standing on the side and being kind
794
00:43:42.829 --> 00:43:45.849
and stepping up against the bully and standing up to
795
00:43:45.989 --> 00:43:51.130
solve problems together. So kindness requires you being a protagonist. Now,
796
00:43:51.710 --> 00:43:53.949
I would not go so far as to say that
797
00:43:54.070 --> 00:43:58.110
Kevin is kind to all entrepreneurs, But he does an
798
00:43:58.150 --> 00:44:01.480
incredible service to say things that some of us, the
799
00:44:01.539 --> 00:44:03.880
rest of the sharks, might be thinking, like, oh, my God,
800
00:44:04.519 --> 00:44:07.820
this person has a really, really tough story. They went
801
00:44:07.860 --> 00:44:11.099
through all this adversity, but their business makes no sense.
802
00:44:11.860 --> 00:44:13.849
How the hell do we help them? By the way,
803
00:44:14.090 --> 00:44:18.230
I'd like to think of myself, Lori... is just the
804
00:44:18.269 --> 00:44:22.489
most nurturing person, right? She's always trying to help heal
805
00:44:22.530 --> 00:44:25.280
that person. And Kevin is just going to tell it
806
00:44:25.320 --> 00:44:27.280
like it is. What I'd like to think is I
807
00:44:27.420 --> 00:44:31.199
am trying to be nurturing while being kind with the feedback.
808
00:44:31.260 --> 00:44:35.460
Meaning I try to, in the way I provide the feedback,
809
00:44:36.260 --> 00:44:39.099
be nurturing, but I want to do it. I want
810
00:44:39.119 --> 00:44:41.280
to say what needs to be said. And I don't
811
00:44:41.440 --> 00:44:44.670
always have the strength that Kevin has. He has no compunction,
812
00:44:45.110 --> 00:44:48.369
but it sometimes takes strength to tell people something they
813
00:44:48.389 --> 00:44:51.550
might not want to hear. I've evolved a lot in season.
814
00:44:51.989 --> 00:44:55.590
I've been now eight seasons. This one that's coming is
815
00:44:55.610 --> 00:44:59.429
the eighth one. And it's starting, I think, September 29th.
816
00:44:59.460 --> 00:45:05.929
I think we're our first episode. An incredible roster of guests. whoa, whoa.
817
00:45:06.289 --> 00:45:07.769
I mean, I think this season is going to be
818
00:45:07.809 --> 00:45:10.829
one of the best. The producers did an insanely good
819
00:45:10.849 --> 00:45:13.860
job with the guest choice. In season 19, it was
820
00:45:14.619 --> 00:45:17.960
one note, kindness. And as I've evolved, I've tried to
821
00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:21.579
be a little bit more leaning into also being comfortable
822
00:45:21.639 --> 00:45:24.199
saying jokes and being witty and understanding that people are
823
00:45:24.260 --> 00:45:26.949
here also to entertain. I wanted to just always be
824
00:45:27.210 --> 00:45:30.949
providing advice, but I realized that you need to also
825
00:45:30.989 --> 00:45:33.139
engage people. And that's what the rest of the sharks
826
00:45:33.179 --> 00:45:36.380
do so well, right? They're so funny. They're so witty.
827
00:45:36.500 --> 00:45:39.099
By the way, people don't realize, you don't know who's
828
00:45:39.119 --> 00:45:41.639
going to come in front of you. Like the only
829
00:45:41.659 --> 00:45:44.159
thing that's different is that they record for 30 to
830
00:45:44.159 --> 00:45:46.289
45 minutes and then they edit it into an eight
831
00:45:46.349 --> 00:45:50.650
to 11 minute segment. But you get the essence. Like you, Leninger,
832
00:45:50.690 --> 00:45:53.630
who's the editor and executive producer, does a very good
833
00:45:53.650 --> 00:45:57.860
job at extracting the essence of the thing. And it really,
834
00:45:58.239 --> 00:46:01.340
it's very hard to do all of that, detect the patterns,
835
00:46:02.099 --> 00:46:05.130
be funny. And my fellow sharks are pretty good at it.
836
00:46:05.800 --> 00:46:08.579
What are some of the must-have attributes in a founder
837
00:46:09.059 --> 00:46:12.619
that they got to have this or these three things
838
00:46:13.099 --> 00:46:14.519
in order for you to say, yeah, I want to
839
00:46:14.559 --> 00:46:16.139
back them. I want to invest in them. I want
840
00:46:16.159 --> 00:46:17.179
to be partners with them.
841
00:46:18.099 --> 00:46:21.579
Integrity. If I don't trust the person, I'm not going
842
00:46:21.599 --> 00:46:22.260
to waste my life.
843
00:46:22.320 --> 00:46:25.300
No matter how much Can you sense that in that
844
00:46:25.320 --> 00:46:25.820
45-minute pitch?
845
00:46:26.579 --> 00:46:29.539
Yeah. The best one I did is Barbara. Barbara is
846
00:46:29.579 --> 00:46:34.670
like Dr. Freud. She has an essence of understanding human
847
00:46:34.710 --> 00:46:37.789
beings like nobody. She's got an incredible emotional intelligence. But yes,
848
00:46:38.329 --> 00:46:40.690
you can. You don't always get it right. You don't
849
00:46:40.809 --> 00:46:44.030
always get it perfect. But yeah, I think you can
850
00:46:44.329 --> 00:46:46.969
in between, by the way. And when you interview a person, Ryan,
851
00:46:47.289 --> 00:46:49.800
and when you meet people, it's not by saying, do
852
00:46:49.840 --> 00:46:52.179
you have integrity? Or like, show me an example of integrity.
853
00:46:52.679 --> 00:46:55.599
It's by asking other questions and then seeing how they're
854
00:46:55.639 --> 00:46:57.920
performing that you get to the essence. But you have
855
00:46:57.960 --> 00:47:00.920
to dribble and look for the nuance. That's what you
856
00:47:01.000 --> 00:47:05.239
really need to be intently observing. Integrity is really important
857
00:47:05.280 --> 00:47:07.989
to me. And I want people that I would enjoy
858
00:47:08.090 --> 00:47:12.230
because in 99.9% of the cases, it's not going to
859
00:47:12.250 --> 00:47:14.449
be like this, that everything's growth. It's going to be
860
00:47:14.670 --> 00:47:17.610
up and down, up and down, like a roller coaster.
861
00:47:18.090 --> 00:47:20.159
And so... I want to work with people that when
862
00:47:20.199 --> 00:47:22.119
I need to be in the trenches helping them, I
863
00:47:22.179 --> 00:47:25.429
enjoy that they're people worth helping. So I do want
864
00:47:25.449 --> 00:47:28.710
to find people that are worth helping, that are good
865
00:47:28.769 --> 00:47:33.369
human beings, kind, respectful. And I want them to have
866
00:47:33.389 --> 00:47:36.989
a ton of passion. I want them to really, really
867
00:47:37.050 --> 00:47:39.989
believe in their business and to sense that they're going
868
00:47:40.010 --> 00:47:43.429
to outwork everybody else because that's what it's going to take.
869
00:47:44.070 --> 00:47:45.619
Do you have a favorite that you've invested in?
870
00:47:46.630 --> 00:47:50.170
A favorite product or company? It's like asking me to
871
00:47:50.210 --> 00:47:51.469
choose among my children.
872
00:47:51.690 --> 00:47:53.150
I know. People ask me this all the time about
873
00:47:53.170 --> 00:47:55.110
my podcast. It's really hard, but I try to come
874
00:47:55.130 --> 00:47:55.449
up with answers.
875
00:47:55.469 --> 00:47:57.699
Well, not after today. You're going to have a favorite
876
00:47:57.719 --> 00:47:58.420
for sure, Ryan.
877
00:47:58.440 --> 00:48:00.179
Come on. We're here. Let's go.
878
00:48:01.920 --> 00:48:07.139
But the couple of home viewer, they're the salt of
879
00:48:07.179 --> 00:48:09.280
the earth. I love them. I don't know if you
880
00:48:09.300 --> 00:48:13.340
know this story. They invented this thing where this hummingbird
881
00:48:13.739 --> 00:48:18.170
dances next to you and drinks nectar from from flour
882
00:48:18.289 --> 00:48:22.650
that is by your helmet or whatever. And the whole
883
00:48:22.710 --> 00:48:26.610
community in Colorado got together to help them. It's like
884
00:48:26.679 --> 00:48:29.119
a town of, I don't know, 40, 50 people. They're
885
00:48:29.159 --> 00:48:32.960
all assembling them, doing them. It's changed their lives. They
886
00:48:33.000 --> 00:48:36.440
retired as a teacher and an electrician and started these things.
887
00:48:36.820 --> 00:48:40.170
What's beautiful about Shark Tank, it helps people pursue their
888
00:48:40.210 --> 00:48:44.099
lifelong dreams and be entrepreneurs and build their own futures.
889
00:48:44.380 --> 00:48:46.380
I love it. Dan, I got one more question before
890
00:48:46.420 --> 00:48:48.980
we run, man. Oh, this has been so cool. Let's
891
00:48:49.019 --> 00:48:53.889
fast forward a year from today and you are surrounded
892
00:48:53.949 --> 00:48:58.710
by the people you love and you are celebrating like crazy.
893
00:48:58.730 --> 00:49:01.869
You're popping bottles, spraying all over each other. What are
894
00:49:01.909 --> 00:49:02.789
you celebrating?
895
00:49:03.550 --> 00:49:07.579
Well, if you see this logo, it's the builder's movement.
896
00:49:08.670 --> 00:49:13.079
And I worry that, I don't want to over-dramatize things,
897
00:49:13.260 --> 00:49:15.679
but we are entering an era where a lot of
898
00:49:15.699 --> 00:49:19.949
the values that we take for granted are under threat, respected.
899
00:49:20.139 --> 00:49:23.119
one another, being kind to one another, democracy, rule of law.
900
00:49:23.920 --> 00:49:27.730
And everybody that's listening agrees, but they think it's happening
901
00:49:27.849 --> 00:49:29.429
on the other side. They don't see it happening to
902
00:49:29.469 --> 00:49:31.989
their side or to themselves. And we need to recognizing
903
00:49:32.070 --> 00:49:35.949
that both political parties and a big number of politicians
904
00:49:35.969 --> 00:49:40.210
are They use this to divide us. And they're no longer,
905
00:49:40.230 --> 00:49:43.190
the true north is not to solve problems, it's to
906
00:49:43.230 --> 00:49:46.090
get reelected. Most of them are not bad people. They're
907
00:49:46.110 --> 00:49:49.230
just responding to the incentives because on social media, if
908
00:49:49.269 --> 00:49:52.789
there's scandal, it travels farther. If you send that fundraising
909
00:49:52.889 --> 00:49:55.340
email with some screams, you're going to get more dollars.
910
00:49:55.449 --> 00:49:58.500
So we as people need to build a movement of
911
00:49:58.639 --> 00:50:04.139
builders that are committed to Hold all special interests, all politicians,
912
00:50:04.199 --> 00:50:07.179
all political parties accountable to follow the will of the people.
913
00:50:07.699 --> 00:50:12.199
Think about it. Over history, as the United States was built,
914
00:50:13.090 --> 00:50:16.389
every industry group has a trade group, a lobby, a
915
00:50:16.449 --> 00:50:20.760
group representing them. There's the napkin association and the food
916
00:50:20.780 --> 00:50:24.900
association and this association. Everybody has an association lobbying the politicians.
917
00:50:25.400 --> 00:50:27.820
And the only people that don't is the 80 to
918
00:50:27.820 --> 00:50:31.380
90% of citizens that agree on almost those issues. The
919
00:50:31.420 --> 00:50:34.460
most divisive issues that are used as wedges to try
920
00:50:34.480 --> 00:50:36.420
to get people to raise money and to get elected
921
00:50:36.460 --> 00:50:42.110
and to divide us. Immigration, voting rights, 90% of Americans
922
00:50:42.130 --> 00:50:46.670
support immigration. Why are the Democrats opposing it? But on
923
00:50:46.690 --> 00:50:50.090
the other side, Democrats support access. Why are the Republicans
924
00:50:50.150 --> 00:50:54.840
opposing it? There's things that are so basic, even on
925
00:50:54.880 --> 00:51:00.610
the most controversial issues like choice and life, 70 to
926
00:51:00.610 --> 00:51:02.210
80% of Americans can agree on 78% to 80% of
927
00:51:02.510 --> 00:51:07.599
the issues. And yet on gun rights and gun safety
928
00:51:07.619 --> 00:51:10.599
and all of these issues, we're paralyzed from making progress
929
00:51:10.639 --> 00:51:14.300
because it's us versus them, it's dehumanization, it's polarization. And
930
00:51:14.340 --> 00:51:17.840
you've seen how that can end. You've seen what can
931
00:51:17.909 --> 00:51:20.869
happen to people where there's so much dehumanization. And so
932
00:51:21.010 --> 00:51:24.550
Build or Break is not just about personal growth and
933
00:51:24.590 --> 00:51:27.650
professional growth for you to build the best business. Build
934
00:51:27.690 --> 00:51:30.329
or Break is also about building a community of builders
935
00:51:30.710 --> 00:51:33.809
that are going to build their businesses, build their families,
936
00:51:34.349 --> 00:51:39.010
and build a better world by being curious, compassionate, creative,
937
00:51:39.050 --> 00:51:43.170
and courageous. The four Cs of a builder's mindset are
938
00:51:43.409 --> 00:51:46.210
the essence that helped me build Kind into a multi-billion
939
00:51:46.230 --> 00:51:49.329
dollar company with almost no investment, and the essence of
940
00:51:49.349 --> 00:51:51.630
what's helped me build the one voice movement, the builders,
941
00:51:51.670 --> 00:51:53.710
and all that. And it's the essence of what it's
942
00:51:53.750 --> 00:51:57.070
going to take for us as Americans and human beings
943
00:51:57.130 --> 00:52:00.539
overall across the world to build a better chapter. So
944
00:52:00.920 --> 00:52:03.590
what it would look like is that builder's movement made
945
00:52:03.750 --> 00:52:08.630
progress and helped start turning the ship to hold politicians accountable.
946
00:52:08.690 --> 00:52:11.809
And politicians are now paying attention, understanding who's the sheriff
947
00:52:11.849 --> 00:52:15.699
in town and doing what's right for the 87% of
948
00:52:15.780 --> 00:52:19.099
Americans that want to solve problems together rather than tear
949
00:52:19.139 --> 00:52:21.300
each other apart. Actually, that number is probably even higher.
950
00:52:21.760 --> 00:52:24.679
Man, I want to be celebrating with you. I love
951
00:52:24.699 --> 00:52:27.989
that mission. I love that you think big. It's inspiring.
952
00:52:28.010 --> 00:52:29.750
It makes me want to follow. You know, that's what
953
00:52:29.809 --> 00:52:31.050
great leaders do. You can do it.
954
00:52:31.090 --> 00:52:34.030
Go to Builders Movement. Go to Daniel Lubetzky to build
955
00:52:34.090 --> 00:52:37.239
or break. Please follow our social media channels. Please join
956
00:52:37.280 --> 00:52:38.940
on the web and give us your email or others.
957
00:52:39.500 --> 00:52:41.659
We don't ask for money. We ask for you to
958
00:52:42.199 --> 00:52:45.079
become a better, the best person you can be. And
959
00:52:45.159 --> 00:52:47.760
it's going to give you tools to grow your business
960
00:52:47.800 --> 00:52:50.760
better and to help build this world.
961
00:52:51.420 --> 00:52:52.059
I will, man.
962
00:52:52.340 --> 00:52:54.650
For $ 19. 99, we'll also send you a Jinzu knife.
963
00:52:57.199 --> 00:53:00.360
See, you learn to sell in your early days, and
964
00:53:00.380 --> 00:53:01.940
it never leaves you, but you do it in a
965
00:53:01.980 --> 00:53:04.239
way that I love. I love the juice you bring
966
00:53:04.280 --> 00:53:07.400
to it and the enthusiasm. Again, it makes people truly.
967
00:53:07.840 --> 00:53:09.679
You can't get behind a leader and follow a leader
968
00:53:09.739 --> 00:53:12.539
who isn't jacked up about the thing they're doing. And
969
00:53:12.559 --> 00:53:15.679
you can sense it and feel it, and I love that. So, hey, man,
970
00:53:15.699 --> 00:53:17.190
this was great. I love it, and I would love
971
00:53:17.210 --> 00:53:20.250
to continue our dialogue as we both progress. Next time
972
00:53:20.269 --> 00:53:21.590
I'm in Austin, I would love to see you. It'd
973
00:53:21.610 --> 00:53:22.329
be really, really cool.
974
00:53:22.949 --> 00:53:24.309
Thank you. It's a pleasure, and I hope to stay
975
00:53:24.329 --> 00:53:24.630
in touch.
976
00:53:28.239 --> 00:53:31.460
It is the end of the podcast club. Thank you
977
00:53:31.480 --> 00:53:33.860
for being a member of the end of the podcast club.
978
00:53:33.900 --> 00:53:37.300
If you are, send me a note, Ryan, at learningleader.com.
979
00:53:37.320 --> 00:53:39.530
Let me know what you learned from this great conversation
980
00:53:39.989 --> 00:53:44.289
with Daniel Lubetzky. A few takeaways from my notes. A
981
00:53:44.449 --> 00:53:50.190
scarcity mindset versus an abundance mindset. Viewing something as a
982
00:53:50.349 --> 00:53:53.309
cost instead of viewing it as an investment. This was
983
00:53:53.369 --> 00:53:57.949
Daniel's early mistake with KindVar's He only budgeted $ 800 a
984
00:53:57.989 --> 00:54:01.210
year in samples because he viewed it as a cost.
985
00:54:01.650 --> 00:54:05.920
Then he changed his mind and realized it was an investment.
986
00:54:05.960 --> 00:54:10.000
He upped it to $ 800, 000 per year in samples and
987
00:54:10.059 --> 00:54:15.940
eventually $ 20 million a year. Scarcity versus abundance. View it
988
00:54:16.380 --> 00:54:20.079
as an investment instead of a cost. Where are you
989
00:54:20.119 --> 00:54:23.239
doing this in your life and in your business? And
990
00:54:23.280 --> 00:54:28.960
then Daniels foresees of a builder's mindset, curiosity, compassion, creativity,
991
00:54:29.019 --> 00:54:32.699
and courage. That's how you both build a company and
992
00:54:32.719 --> 00:54:36.579
a movement. And then the difference between being nice or
993
00:54:36.619 --> 00:54:41.309
being kind. Being nice avoids conflict to protect feelings in
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00:54:41.329 --> 00:54:44.530
the moment, the short term. Being kind is about being
995
00:54:44.630 --> 00:54:48.769
willing to risk the moment, telling the hard truth because
996
00:54:48.829 --> 00:54:53.119
you actually care about the person we want to to
997
00:54:53.159 --> 00:54:55.760
be kind more so than be nice. Once again, I
998
00:54:56.079 --> 00:54:58.579
want to say thank you so much for continuing to
999
00:54:58.599 --> 00:55:00.360
spread the message and telling a friend or two, hey,
1000
00:55:00.719 --> 00:55:02.800
you should listen to this episode of The Learning Leader
1001
00:55:02.820 --> 00:55:05.800
Show with Daniel Lubetzky. I think he'll help you become
1002
00:55:05.820 --> 00:55:08.179
a more effective leader because you continue to do that
1003
00:55:08.539 --> 00:55:11.619
and you also go to Spotify, Apple Podcasts, you subscribe
1004
00:55:11.639 --> 00:55:13.840
to the show, you're rated, hopefully five stars, and you
1005
00:55:13.920 --> 00:55:16.639
write a thoughtful review by doing all of that. You
1006
00:55:17.179 --> 00:55:19.539
are giving me the opportunity to do what I love
1007
00:55:19.579 --> 00:55:22.389
on a daily basis. And for that, I will forever
1008
00:55:22.550 --> 00:55:24.760
be grateful. Thank you so, so much. Talk to you soon.
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00:55:25.079 --> 00:55:25.300
Can't wait.