Layer33: Decentralizing Solana from the Ground Up w/ Nicky Scanz, Founder

WEBVTT
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Well folks today in the TLT podcast we got Nikki
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scans the new founder of layer 33 on to talk
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about just that and Now, you know congrats on
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the indie soul watch. I literally just saw that
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on the timeline. So Welcome aboard the podcast.
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I'm excited to get into it and learn a thing
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or two Yeah, yeah things for having me Question
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off the bat. Am I calling you dirt on this recording?
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You could call me dirt Mike dirty Mike, whatever
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you please. I'm not as I was telling people at
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breakpoint. I'm I'm in a transitionary period
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from VSC to real person, you know Fluid you're
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transitioning from dirt to Mike or from dirt
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to dirty Mike From dirt to Mike, but I think
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the transitionary period is dirty Mike See that
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sounds worse though. I feel like it would be
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dirty Mike then dirt then Mike But we'll go with,
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we'll go with dirt for today. Dirt works. I'm,
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I'm getting kicked back from it anyways. So not
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kicked back, whatever. Anyway, enough about me,
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Nikki, let's talk about you. How'd you get into
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the space? Get me up to speed and then we'll
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jump into what inspired player 33. Sure. We'll
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do the, the Nikki scans lore. I like love to
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start with this anyway. So I've got some, this
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is perfect. So I've got some DJ nape Academy
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stuff behind me. I got my little middle finger
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plushies and beer and all sorts of stuff. So
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that's really where my lore started with Solana.
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Funny enough, I was in nonprofit consulting and
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not Web3. And, you know, just like everyone else
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found the NFT project that they loved. I had
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to get, you know, I had a Solit wallet on my
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phone, like web app Solit, like not even, like
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they didn't even have on the app store. and tried
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to mint DJ and apes during a wedding from a solit
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and failed miserably. Luckily, I had a deal with
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a buddy that was like, if one of us gets two
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and one gets none, we'll just sell it to the
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other one at cost. So I did that as a avid collector
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and hobbyist. You know, how much freaking fun
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were NFTs back in 2021? So it was August 2021.
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So much fun. The community aspect, the collecting
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aspect. the instant finance aspect, right? Like
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learning to use the blockchain via like NFT trading
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is the ultimate onboarding experience, right?
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So much more fun than anything that exists now.
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And did that, was trying to find ways to help
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out DAA and other NFT projects, ended up with
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a full -time role at DAA. that went from strategy
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to BD to eventually CEO there and made so many
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freaking relationships and friends within the
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slana ecosystem. My life as you can imagine over
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those few years from like very regular, if you
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even want to call it web two job, we're going
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to say web one job running an NFT project was
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insane. You went from like writing letters and
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using the post to interact with the blockchain.
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You skipped Web2. I did. I did. Nadia, nonprofit
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consulting is pretty web one. I skipped Web2
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right to Web3. From there, I ended up getting
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back to consulting, which was, but I was doing
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that with now Solana teams. Again, I'm just so
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lucky to have so many friends of founders and
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impressive international people throughout the
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Solana ecosystem. It truly is the best place
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on earth. to be building in because of the community
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aspect. So I ended up was, was consulting some
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teams, uh, was working with, uh, Marinade as
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a client for a bit, uh, ended up there full time
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for a year. And now has been the, the latest
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transition from there to layer 33 as, uh, as
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you alluded to. That's Taylor. NFTs man. It comes
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up pretty frequently in podcasts with people.
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And like I was there. There should also be like
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a Solette class. You know, people talk class
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of 21, class of 17. If you have the Solette wallet,
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it's fucking OG. I remember that thing. Beautiful.
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Actually, one of my hot wallets is still my OG
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Solette. Solette, what? That's my like, 5D jet.
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That you converted. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That
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I brought with me. My favorite. Anyways, I want
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to say that, and it seems for me, I want to say
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that one of my wallets, Now the hot wallet is
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originally a solit which for people who didn't
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have solit it looked like a Microsoft Excel page
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as a web app on your phone so imagine like you
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pull up Excel on your phone and it's just like
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addresses and then like a number that sort of
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represents how much you have of That token address
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and that token being you know, whatever that
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I had I had mango in my solit I Was using only
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the web app You know, I wasn't using, I wasn't,
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I was using the browser extension all on my phone.
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Just sad. Yeah, but I would use the browser extension
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via mobile. That's amazing. I mean, it was the
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worst user experience ever, but then it was so
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funny once I got like, I pinged my next wallet
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up. That was probably Phantom. And then I downloaded
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Soul Flare at some point eventually too. And
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I was like, well, this is better. Well, this
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is better. Absolutely. It is. But nothing that
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we're going to burn a whole podcast is talking
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about old wallet experiences. But the NFT stuff,
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before we move on, it's so impactful and it's
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so true. I had a lot of friends that were DJing
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apes and collectors, I myself went through a
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lot of different journeys. And it's funny, you
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go to Breakpoint, you go to conferences, it's
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like, you know, who do you hang out with? You
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kind of hang out with different tribes and you
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see different tribes. You go to monkey events
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at the hotel, like, I'm Lucid Drake, I hang out
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with these guys, and there, you know, I just
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finally got into the mustache style. Like, it
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took me fucking a year and a half. And then,
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like, you see the Radiant style guys, like...
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Joining and getting into a community via NFP
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and meeting like -minded people, it's insane
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how well that has worked for so many people.
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And I think it will continue to work well. It's
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not that that playbook is dead. I think it's
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very alive and well. It's just being able to
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see the right communities. Yep. It's, um, it's
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community. Fun. and genuine relationships that
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happens to exist on top of excellent, you know,
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bleeding edge technology. Um, but the community
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and fun here is so good that if the technology
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sucked, we'd probably still be here, but it just
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so happens that it's, that Solana is, I mean,
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the future of finance as it for, as anyone knows,
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if they've experienced it in any level. Yeah,
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it's like as we see lately, it's like the merger
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of TradFi and crypto just into like finance with
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just this like fun culture layer on top, which
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happens to be represented by entities. But anyways,
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layer 33. Let's get to what we're going to be
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talking about here. I was doing a little dig
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in 33 safety threshold, you know, small group
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in the validators. What does the name mean to
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you? So first it's it's cool to explain the meaning
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behind layer 33 That was I can't take credit
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for that. I believe it was Devour came up with
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the name who is one of our most active members
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within layer 33. So Layer it's like, you know
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an infrastructure layer Validators are a layer
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of Solana and then 33 isn't actually how many
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validators are going to be in it. It's funny
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enough we think 33 is going to be a good initial
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cap. We're at 25 right now. We're going to build
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up to 33 and then stop there, at least in the
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short term. 33 represents 33%. Now 33 % is a
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bit of a, it's a publicly agreed upon threshold
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where it's if 33 % of all stake remains on indie
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validators that promote decentralization, Solana
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is basically safe in perpetuity from any sort
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of attack. or centralization of the chain. So
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it's maintaining that 33%. Now, is it an exact
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figure and are there ways for additional layers
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of centralization can come in? Yes. But simple
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goal, simple task, put it right in the name.
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It becomes very achievable that way. And it's,
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yep, 33 % of stake on indie validators and we
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are good to go. We can support the NASDAQ and
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accomplish all the, you know, the global takeover
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of finance. without having to worry about, you
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know, trillion dollar conglomerates centralizing
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the chain. Now, is that like an abstraction from
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if 33 % is Indy verified, it leaves 66 % on the
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other side and somebody would need to take over
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50 % of what's left to try to meaningfully halt
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and disrupt the chain. And because of the difficulty
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in that, it's deemed improbable. Is that sort
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of probable? So the technical numbers are and
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like, um, I said this during my talk at breakpoint
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on layer 33 that these facts I'm about to lay
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out in front of you are dramatic and not really
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a concern, but it's good to still know them.
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It's extremely unlikely. I'd say borderline impossible,
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but technically if 33 % of soul was on one validator
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or a or a cybill of validators controlled by
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one person it could hold the chain and then obviously
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there'd be a big movement to have to fix that
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and basically move around where soul is to remove
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that issue and then at 66 % on one validator
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or one group of cybills now you're into like
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the editing transactions level of centralization
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Um, and again, I'm not trying to fear monger
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here. That is extremely unlikely. Uh, as Solana
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currently stands, it's extremely decentralized,
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but again, the 33 % threshold, which for the
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record, like right now, Solana is absolutely,
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um, effectively decentralized and there's more
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than 33 % on independent validators. And so this
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is you saying, let's take it a step further.
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And instead of leaving that the chance. Let's
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just go gobble up 33 % and put a stamp on this
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as effectively, not even effectively, written
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in stone, decentralized. Cause you can see if
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you're in here, this is where all of it is. And
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this is where it's all decentralized. And this,
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this hunk of all Solana steak is going nowhere.
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It's fine. Yeah. That's, that's the idea. It's,
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it's, again, it's, it's creating that, um, it's
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creating like that. concrete, you know, structure
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that just defends this decentralization layer
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forever. But a couple like important notes there.
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One, while I'm like sort of downplaying, you
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know, any chance of centralization on Solana,
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it's like this layer 33 is a response to a trend,
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which is like independent validators shutting
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down, institutional validators gaining way and
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way more soul. um, as basically the, the funnel
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goes up. So as independent validators shut down,
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the sole from those, uh, that is ends up those
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state accounts get closed down and they almost
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all go up. Then also the other thing that's happening
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is these large institutional validators have
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the best distribution. So every time someone
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downloads a Coinbase app and has five sole, they
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end up staking it with an institutional validator.
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So we were basically getting it from both ends
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here. Right. It's all funneling to the same places,
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which is these institutional validators, which
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is a trend that could eventually, um, we'll tap
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in quickly, right? We've had a thousand over
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a thousand validators shut down in the last year.
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Uh, a trend that can get dangerous now on the
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33 % side, layer 33, having the entire 33 % within
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our 25 to eventually 33 validators would be great.
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Um, but what I would prefer to happen and what
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I think is even more likely is getting like four
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or five more layer 33 type coalitions of validators
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that maybe don't get into our set that they make
00:12:47.720 --> 00:12:50.519
their own. Um, and they help contribute to that
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33%. Right. If we have, you know, if we have
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eight, nine, 10 % here, and then somebody else
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has another two, 3 % on theirs, that's even better.
00:12:59.940 --> 00:13:03.009
Right. Cause now that split is amongst more than
00:13:03.009 --> 00:13:08.309
just our set. Interesting. Layer 33, is it always
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going to be open source? What do you mean by
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open source? Maybe open source is the wrong word
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because it's validator set, but it's like, from
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what you're saying, it seems like you want this.
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You don't view it as like a negative competition.
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You view it as like expand, apply. Cause there's
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no like, call it layer 33 because 32 % is like
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what your benchmark. But if it was way high,
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that's just better. And so for you, other people
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- Layer 33 is a benchmark for what I'm hoping
00:13:38.289 --> 00:13:42.590
that this, that this mission accomplishes. Now,
00:13:42.590 --> 00:13:44.970
whether it's us that accomplishes it, or it's
00:13:44.970 --> 00:13:46.889
a group of validators that accomplishes it, or
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like a group of coalitions, either way is a win.
00:13:49.990 --> 00:13:52.870
But in my heart of hearts, like, my preference
00:13:52.870 --> 00:13:55.230
would be it's a group of these. For like another,
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for other groups of like 10, 15, 20, 30 validators
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to - take this initiative, maybe launch some
00:14:00.860 --> 00:14:02.879
of their own products under their banner, get
00:14:02.879 --> 00:14:05.179
a bunch of stake weight under their group to
00:14:05.179 --> 00:14:08.580
help make up that 33%. That would be great, you
00:14:08.580 --> 00:14:09.919
know, because then maybe it can be made up of
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like a hundred validators between all the sets
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than just as opposed to our 25 to 33. I love
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that. Well, this is a good time to ask then.
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What does it take? What are the technical and
00:14:21.879 --> 00:14:25.159
operational criteria to get into layer 33 as
00:14:25.159 --> 00:14:28.059
a validator, as an indie validator? So I mean
00:14:28.059 --> 00:14:30.860
the the technical criteria is not that difficult
00:14:30.860 --> 00:14:35.080
a lot of these independent operators are Already
00:14:35.080 --> 00:14:38.700
extremely performant extremely secure They have
00:14:38.700 --> 00:14:42.440
long histories of uptime you know anything any
00:14:42.440 --> 00:14:45.620
time like The thing with any validators. They're
00:14:45.620 --> 00:14:48.539
the first to test you know new technology. They're
00:14:48.539 --> 00:14:52.779
the first to test you know basically anything
00:14:52.779 --> 00:14:54.440
anytime there's a new upgrade whether it's the
00:14:54.440 --> 00:14:57.820
franken dancer or fire dancer stuff or pipe network
00:14:57.820 --> 00:15:01.379
or double zero i mean anytime there's like a
00:15:01.379 --> 00:15:04.700
network reset needed like it's always these guys
00:15:04.700 --> 00:15:07.960
so these are already the best the best i basically
00:15:07.960 --> 00:15:11.899
as like a leader in layer 33 i'm my biggest one
00:15:11.899 --> 00:15:13.440
of my biggest problems i'm dealing with like
00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:16.220
an abundance of talent there's so many of these
00:15:16.220 --> 00:15:19.690
validators that deserve to be in layer 33 But
00:15:19.690 --> 00:15:21.629
like that kind of defeats the purpose. If there's
00:15:21.629 --> 00:15:24.950
hundreds in this group, um, it needs to be tight
00:15:24.950 --> 00:15:28.190
knit. They're like, you know, small. So, um,
00:15:28.629 --> 00:15:30.309
we can actually accomplish things and get things
00:15:30.309 --> 00:15:33.870
done. Um, so on like the performance side, like
00:15:33.870 --> 00:15:36.149
that's not really much of an issue. The bigger
00:15:36.149 --> 00:15:41.470
item is how many teams are ready to commit like
00:15:41.470 --> 00:15:44.669
man hours, dev resources, marketing resources,
00:15:44.950 --> 00:15:49.200
design resources, budget. Um, to building up
00:15:49.200 --> 00:15:52.639
something that is, you know, building up a company
00:15:52.639 --> 00:15:55.399
that technically is, yes, they share in it, they
00:15:55.399 --> 00:15:56.960
share in the rewards and I consider them all
00:15:56.960 --> 00:15:58.659
owners, but like they have their own validator.
00:15:58.679 --> 00:16:01.179
That's priority one. So it's like, are you ready
00:16:01.179 --> 00:16:03.779
to commit resources to something other than your
00:16:03.779 --> 00:16:06.340
own validator? And for the group we have right
00:16:06.340 --> 00:16:09.120
now, that answer is yes. But we have lots of
00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:11.700
validators who are reaching out who I consider
00:16:11.700 --> 00:16:14.159
great, but it's like, Hey, do you want to join?
00:16:14.299 --> 00:16:17.610
Because you hope that we might. that some stake
00:16:17.610 --> 00:16:20.970
will come your way via like our pool or do you
00:16:20.970 --> 00:16:22.710
want to join because you believe in the mission
00:16:22.710 --> 00:16:25.269
and you're ready to give us a few hours a week
00:16:25.269 --> 00:16:29.950
and um like I said dev resources creative marketing
00:16:29.950 --> 00:16:34.169
and you want to like you want to be a part of
00:16:34.169 --> 00:16:41.809
this you know public good I like that it's bootstrapping
00:16:41.809 --> 00:16:47.539
um yeah and then and it kind of like economic
00:16:47.539 --> 00:16:51.220
incentives for validators and thinking about
00:16:51.220 --> 00:16:55.519
layer 33 it's like you don't want to attract
00:16:55.519 --> 00:16:57.840
teams that are just there because they think
00:16:57.840 --> 00:17:01.200
it affects the bottom line you want teams that
00:17:01.200 --> 00:17:04.359
are there because they care they're the ones
00:17:04.359 --> 00:17:07.019
like you said testing and CN governance so the
00:17:07.019 --> 00:17:09.460
ones running Frank's answer they actually care
00:17:09.460 --> 00:17:12.789
about keeping the chain alive but is there a
00:17:12.789 --> 00:17:15.789
bit of a sales pitch from you? Like, is there
00:17:15.789 --> 00:17:20.190
an economic incentive? Like, it's like, is it,
00:17:20.329 --> 00:17:22.490
is there a token on the table? Do they, do they
00:17:22.490 --> 00:17:23.970
consider that maybe there could be a token in
00:17:23.970 --> 00:17:25.710
the future or they shouldn't ever think about
00:17:25.710 --> 00:17:29.150
that or you can't say about that. And it's, and
00:17:29.150 --> 00:17:30.529
I guess you've kind of like, I'm going to, I'm
00:17:30.529 --> 00:17:31.970
going to kind of spin this on. Like you kind
00:17:31.970 --> 00:17:34.109
of got to the point and we had talked earlier
00:17:34.109 --> 00:17:36.549
that like, this went from an idea to product
00:17:36.549 --> 00:17:38.490
lightning fast and you expect that it was going
00:17:38.490 --> 00:17:40.529
to take longer. So now you've kind of gotten
00:17:40.529 --> 00:17:42.359
to the point where you're like, not having to
00:17:42.359 --> 00:17:44.940
ask people to join. So you're not having to say,
00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:48.000
I'll give you this if you join. Now you're able
00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:49.700
to kind of sit back and say, well, damn, like
00:17:49.700 --> 00:17:53.579
we don't give anything except for a superior
00:17:53.579 --> 00:17:57.140
product that helps validators run better and
00:17:57.140 --> 00:17:59.519
protects the network. You kind of like, you see
00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:04.579
where I'm going with that? Yeah, I do. So that's
00:18:04.579 --> 00:18:06.799
like the, so yes, we have the validators coming
00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:09.940
to us and now we have to basically ask what they
00:18:09.940 --> 00:18:13.450
can bring to the table. Which is like a good
00:18:13.450 --> 00:18:16.250
place to be in and I think it's it's fair It's
00:18:16.250 --> 00:18:18.309
like how can you contribute to this and sort
00:18:18.309 --> 00:18:20.990
of like the we're not coming You know not bearing
00:18:20.990 --> 00:18:23.690
any gifts, right? It's if you get in the idea
00:18:23.690 --> 00:18:25.869
is if we're successful We're gonna have a lot
00:18:25.869 --> 00:18:29.390
of stake, you know in the indie soul pool, right?
00:18:29.809 --> 00:18:31.190
So there's a lot of sake you'll get that way
00:18:31.190 --> 00:18:34.210
and then also I consider all validators You know
00:18:34.210 --> 00:18:36.809
co -owners of this coalition. So we're working
00:18:36.809 --> 00:18:39.549
on what are supposed to be revenue generating
00:18:39.549 --> 00:18:42.440
products And the validators within this group
00:18:42.440 --> 00:18:45.599
will share in that revenue Some will be for the
00:18:45.599 --> 00:18:47.579
company and then you know for like the entity
00:18:47.579 --> 00:18:51.539
itself and then some Will go directly to these
00:18:51.539 --> 00:18:54.220
validators in a perfect world. It's meant to
00:18:54.220 --> 00:18:56.740
also be like a backstop for these validators
00:18:56.740 --> 00:19:04.019
if If revenue continues to trend towards like
00:19:04.019 --> 00:19:06.859
break even For these validators. The hope is
00:19:06.859 --> 00:19:10.230
that if if layer 33 is successful enough that
00:19:10.230 --> 00:19:12.970
the revenue our products generate plus the stake
00:19:12.970 --> 00:19:16.049
pool is enough for them to keep their doors open,
00:19:16.049 --> 00:19:18.430
you know, keep their doors open. That is, that
00:19:18.430 --> 00:19:20.190
is one thing I was thinking about as you were
00:19:20.190 --> 00:19:22.730
talking about, like, um, validator shutting down.
00:19:22.910 --> 00:19:25.670
It's obviously like inflation rates are decreasing
00:19:25.670 --> 00:19:27.390
and they're going to continue to decrease over
00:19:27.390 --> 00:19:31.450
time. Is that another thing that layer 33 could
00:19:31.450 --> 00:19:33.089
do? As you just said, you like, you guys could
00:19:33.089 --> 00:19:35.700
build products. And so it's like, it's, it's
00:19:35.700 --> 00:19:37.940
as a validator, like your biggest concern is,
00:19:38.140 --> 00:19:40.000
as you said, can I keep the lights on? Am I going
00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:41.640
to be able to earn enough to be able to sell
00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:44.119
enough soul to continue doing this in the future?
00:19:44.579 --> 00:19:46.240
And layer three could be, well, if, you know,
00:19:46.259 --> 00:19:48.799
you bring your engineering talent, help us together
00:19:48.799 --> 00:19:51.619
in this coalition and we do things together,
00:19:52.279 --> 00:19:55.079
the odds of you keeping the lights on are increased.
00:19:56.700 --> 00:19:58.779
Yep. Um, they're very much increased because
00:19:58.779 --> 00:20:01.420
you're creating new methods to bring in, you
00:20:01.420 --> 00:20:03.279
know, you're, you're diversifying, right? There
00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:05.680
are now other ways for you to make money. Uh,
00:20:05.720 --> 00:20:08.740
and now anytime you're like, okay, like I love
00:20:08.740 --> 00:20:10.319
to make my own product, but I don't have the
00:20:10.319 --> 00:20:12.359
developer resources. Well, like now we have combined
00:20:12.359 --> 00:20:14.380
resources, right? We have creatives, we have
00:20:14.380 --> 00:20:16.920
devs, we have marketers, we have BDS, we have
00:20:16.920 --> 00:20:19.539
everything sort of already built for you. So
00:20:19.539 --> 00:20:21.500
any, I've told this to our group over and over
00:20:21.500 --> 00:20:25.920
and we've had a few that are, um, doing this
00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:28.140
where I'm like, Hey, there's a product you want
00:20:28.140 --> 00:20:29.960
to build, but you've been afraid that you don't
00:20:29.960 --> 00:20:32.460
have the the resources or the chops on the you
00:20:32.460 --> 00:20:35.119
know the bd marketing creative side like build
00:20:35.119 --> 00:20:38.539
it have it be a layer 33 product you will of
00:20:38.539 --> 00:20:41.920
course get you know a majority share of whatever
00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:43.599
ownership revenue or whatever you want of the
00:20:43.599 --> 00:20:45.880
product we'll figure it out but let layer 33
00:20:45.880 --> 00:20:49.440
be that you know market marketing and bd engine
00:20:49.440 --> 00:20:53.559
for your product and that's the exact like mentality
00:20:53.559 --> 00:20:56.660
i want everyone to be in um because it's it's
00:20:56.660 --> 00:21:00.599
that like you know think big and think beyond
00:21:00.599 --> 00:21:02.839
just what you can do with your validator now
00:21:02.839 --> 00:21:05.839
and then so now having all these teams that building
00:21:05.839 --> 00:21:09.200
products under this umbrella like another thing
00:21:09.200 --> 00:21:13.460
that's sort of a big differentiator is between
00:21:13.460 --> 00:21:15.720
the you know between the 25 of us there's like
00:21:15.720 --> 00:21:19.319
nearly it's like 17 or 18 million soul between
00:21:19.319 --> 00:21:22.259
these validators so when you have that amount
00:21:22.259 --> 00:21:26.180
of like stake weight or you know you know percent
00:21:26.180 --> 00:21:29.359
of all the block space basically it makes you
00:21:29.609 --> 00:21:32.410
Quite a bit more powerful and influential. It's
00:21:32.410 --> 00:21:34.950
a lot harder to ignore the group, because a lot
00:21:34.950 --> 00:21:36.970
of them feel unheard. They feel like their stories
00:21:36.970 --> 00:21:38.730
aren't being listened to. They feel like nobody
00:21:38.730 --> 00:21:40.769
cares about how much they've supported the chain
00:21:40.769 --> 00:21:43.069
over the years. But it's like, when you come
00:21:43.069 --> 00:21:47.230
to the table with 4 % of all stake, trust me,
00:21:47.269 --> 00:21:52.390
everyone's listening. This is actually an interesting
00:21:52.390 --> 00:21:56.809
experiment, because in a very short order, you
00:21:56.809 --> 00:22:00.140
put 25s. people that have been building since
00:22:00.140 --> 00:22:03.519
maybe the beginning of Solana before into a room.
00:22:04.119 --> 00:22:05.160
And, you know, you're saying like, you know,
00:22:05.220 --> 00:22:08.559
this isn't mine, it's ours. What does that early
00:22:08.559 --> 00:22:10.420
governance look like? You know, is it a Slack
00:22:10.420 --> 00:22:12.119
channel? Is it a Discord channel? Is it a telegraph
00:22:12.119 --> 00:22:17.579
channel? How are you finding, you know, direction?
00:22:18.700 --> 00:22:19.700
And because a lot of people are like, you know,
00:22:19.700 --> 00:22:22.160
they're volunteering, they're incentivized, but
00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:23.559
maybe they're volunteering some of their time
00:22:23.559 --> 00:22:26.819
and resources. Is that been a management challenge?
00:22:32.630 --> 00:22:36.509
What's that experience been like? Okay. So there's
00:22:36.509 --> 00:22:38.150
different types of people, right? So right now,
00:22:38.150 --> 00:22:40.549
so we have, we have a telegram, uh, and that
00:22:40.549 --> 00:22:43.289
telegram is divvied up into, you know, all of
00:22:43.289 --> 00:22:46.509
our product categories and initiatives. Um, and
00:22:46.509 --> 00:22:51.150
it's active, very active, um, every day. So what
00:22:51.150 --> 00:22:56.309
you have is initially, um, your most enthusiastic.
00:22:56.940 --> 00:22:59.480
members identify themselves almost immediately
00:22:59.480 --> 00:23:05.539
the people who are going to Create projects lead
00:23:05.539 --> 00:23:12.440
projects build projects themselves Take on initiatives
00:23:12.440 --> 00:23:14.740
Without even telling anyone's big. Hey, look
00:23:14.740 --> 00:23:18.000
what I made is for the group You then will have
00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:20.460
people that fit into like the next category which
00:23:20.460 --> 00:23:23.660
is like hey if you assign me a task I'll do it,
00:23:23.920 --> 00:23:28.059
right And then you have people that are just
00:23:28.059 --> 00:23:33.180
like excited about the whole thing, but are still
00:23:33.180 --> 00:23:35.180
like, how much time do I actually want to dedicate
00:23:35.180 --> 00:23:38.059
to this? And then you're going to have the next
00:23:38.059 --> 00:23:40.440
subset of people that are like, prove it to me
00:23:40.440 --> 00:23:43.099
sort of like, they're not saying it, but it's
00:23:43.099 --> 00:23:46.380
like, once I see a product go live, um, I'll
00:23:46.380 --> 00:23:51.819
be giving this more time. I think the, I think
00:23:51.819 --> 00:23:54.519
like the presence we had at break point helped,
00:23:54.799 --> 00:23:59.589
um, make even some of the less enthusiastic members
00:23:59.589 --> 00:24:02.269
enthusiastic, like seeing layer 33 up on stage
00:24:02.269 --> 00:24:04.450
at break point, I think brought a lot of people
00:24:04.450 --> 00:24:07.130
along, but now it's sort of part of my job to
00:24:07.130 --> 00:24:09.970
keep that going, uh, into the new year, which
00:24:09.970 --> 00:24:11.809
is funny timing. Cause like come back from break
00:24:11.809 --> 00:24:14.470
point, everyone, everyone's sick. No one's working.
00:24:14.670 --> 00:24:16.670
And then it's Christmas week and the new year's
00:24:16.670 --> 00:24:19.509
week, but we had like a team call today and I
00:24:19.509 --> 00:24:22.369
was like, Keep that high, that high that you
00:24:22.369 --> 00:24:24.289
had during break point. I'm like, hold onto it
00:24:24.289 --> 00:24:25.710
just a couple more weeks. You got to hold onto
00:24:25.710 --> 00:24:29.950
that. We got to make it to January 1st. I love
00:24:29.950 --> 00:24:34.589
it. So it's so crypto. It's so Solana. It's like
00:24:34.589 --> 00:24:38.329
rise from the ashes. You know, you can't, you
00:24:38.329 --> 00:24:41.849
can't read a book on how to start a business
00:24:41.849 --> 00:24:45.690
and expect that to equate to like the experiment
00:24:45.690 --> 00:24:48.390
that is going on right now. There's a lot of
00:24:48.390 --> 00:24:50.730
different directions you could take and I'm sure
00:24:50.730 --> 00:24:53.349
you're at good conversations with some, probably
00:24:53.349 --> 00:24:56.049
some mentor people that are like, this is really
00:24:56.049 --> 00:24:58.349
interesting. And there's a lot of ways you can
00:24:58.349 --> 00:25:01.430
go. I recommend this. I recommend this. Like,
00:25:01.730 --> 00:25:03.849
and I think as, as an aside, follow up question
00:25:03.849 --> 00:25:07.549
out of curiosity from myself, what do you take
00:25:07.549 --> 00:25:09.369
from that? Cause there's certain people I talk
00:25:09.369 --> 00:25:11.509
to that go like, you got to ignore the noise
00:25:11.509 --> 00:25:15.519
and stay true. And like, There's a lot of truth
00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:17.420
to that, but then there's a lot of fricking wisdom
00:25:17.420 --> 00:25:20.420
around. And are you finding, you know, you're
00:25:20.420 --> 00:25:22.619
spending your days on walks, thinking about where
00:25:22.619 --> 00:25:26.240
do I take this? Is it a combination of conversations
00:25:26.240 --> 00:25:29.019
with VCs, even though maybe you don't want to
00:25:29.019 --> 00:25:31.019
do any raising because you can bootstrap it yourselves.
00:25:31.700 --> 00:25:34.319
Like talk to me about like that, you know, new
00:25:34.319 --> 00:25:39.119
founder modality. Yeah. So like my thought process
00:25:39.119 --> 00:25:44.980
in a day to day is identifying. identifying partners
00:25:44.980 --> 00:25:47.180
that move the needle and that are enthusiastic
00:25:47.180 --> 00:25:49.460
about maintaining decentralization on Solana
00:25:49.460 --> 00:25:52.180
because a lot of big teams just don't care which
00:25:52.180 --> 00:25:54.299
is okay like their prerogative is elsewhere they're
00:25:54.299 --> 00:25:57.940
you know they have fiduciary duty to their stakeholders
00:25:57.940 --> 00:26:03.000
right so it's identifying those partners finding
00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:05.700
plans that we can execute with those partners
00:26:05.700 --> 00:26:08.259
that move us further and further along to our
00:26:08.259 --> 00:26:12.829
goal all the parts of my day -to -day are You
00:26:12.829 --> 00:26:14.849
know going through all the projects that we're
00:26:14.849 --> 00:26:16.849
working on now and saying how can I help move
00:26:16.849 --> 00:26:18.970
this along? Knowing that a lot of people that
00:26:18.970 --> 00:26:20.869
are working on these projects are volunteering
00:26:20.869 --> 00:26:23.069
their time So I have to make it as easy on them
00:26:23.069 --> 00:26:25.549
as possible I need to connect the dots where
00:26:25.549 --> 00:26:30.470
possible and then there's also the Like funding
00:26:30.470 --> 00:26:32.130
aspect right that I've been thinking through
00:26:32.130 --> 00:26:34.609
quite a bit whether it's like either some sort
00:26:34.609 --> 00:26:37.970
of Like metadata rays or regular VC rays towards
00:26:37.970 --> 00:26:40.759
this have this be a public good that just operates
00:26:40.759 --> 00:26:47.059
off of grants or, you know, have the hope that
00:26:47.059 --> 00:26:48.799
based on some of the conversations that we're
00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:52.359
having now, that we end up getting a, you know,
00:26:52.619 --> 00:26:55.920
sizable delegation of Solana steak to our pool
00:26:55.920 --> 00:26:58.240
from, you know, and there's various conversations
00:26:58.240 --> 00:27:00.660
and sources that could possibly come from, and
00:27:00.660 --> 00:27:03.599
that keeps the lights on as we contribute to
00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:06.880
this, you know, public good. So there are a lot
00:27:06.880 --> 00:27:09.589
of different possibilities. And some of them
00:27:09.589 --> 00:27:15.869
are like very much for profit company, right?
00:27:15.910 --> 00:27:19.509
Like think of like, imagine if a Jito or a Helios
00:27:19.509 --> 00:27:22.170
was literally run by a coalition of validators.
00:27:22.390 --> 00:27:26.789
And then some of the potential paths are more
00:27:26.789 --> 00:27:30.309
aligned of this like public good, just build
00:27:30.309 --> 00:27:33.369
things that people in the ecosystem need, especially
00:27:33.369 --> 00:27:36.490
independent validators. And know that like on
00:27:36.490 --> 00:27:39.940
the financial side, we're good because of the
00:27:39.940 --> 00:27:43.700
amount of stake that we have or grants. Interesting.
00:27:44.259 --> 00:27:46.539
Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. And I guess that sort
00:27:46.539 --> 00:27:51.380
of goes back to there are many potential futures
00:27:51.380 --> 00:27:55.980
and all could be successful. And I look forward
00:27:55.980 --> 00:27:58.500
to seeing what direction you go, but it seems
00:27:58.500 --> 00:28:01.339
like you got the right head on you. I have a
00:28:01.339 --> 00:28:04.779
feeling the direction will kind of choose itself
00:28:04.779 --> 00:28:09.299
like I very much I don't like I'll never fight
00:28:09.299 --> 00:28:12.779
momentum like whatever presents itself first
00:28:12.779 --> 00:28:16.200
and Like obviously, you know after dude like
00:28:16.200 --> 00:28:18.220
due diligence plus the opportunity is likely
00:28:18.220 --> 00:28:22.400
what will Like what we'll jump at and I can't
00:28:22.400 --> 00:28:24.500
All that's on the table. All the conversations
00:28:24.500 --> 00:28:27.759
are happening. I can't predict what the you know,
00:28:27.799 --> 00:28:30.240
what the result will be I have my hunches, but
00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:32.819
Yeah, not ready to make the call yet. I like
00:28:32.819 --> 00:28:34.839
that. We have this funny thing in my friends
00:28:34.839 --> 00:28:38.480
where democracy wins, you know, it's, you got
00:28:38.480 --> 00:28:40.559
a big enough group of intelligent people sitting
00:28:40.559 --> 00:28:44.759
around and you know, democracy typically prevails.
00:28:45.420 --> 00:28:47.859
And so almost like with prediction markets, right?
00:28:47.940 --> 00:28:50.160
It's like, well, this is the direction we want
00:28:50.160 --> 00:28:52.539
to go and everybody supports it. So we're going
00:28:52.539 --> 00:28:58.200
to do like that simple. I'm going to over complicate
00:28:58.200 --> 00:29:01.140
it. Um, I want to get a little deeper into, you
00:29:01.140 --> 00:29:05.369
know, philosophy in your head space. High finance,
00:29:06.130 --> 00:29:08.329
you know, I want to know like, how do you feel
00:29:08.329 --> 00:29:10.529
about teams like pie finance that are building
00:29:10.529 --> 00:29:12.829
tools, you know, to help give validators sort
00:29:12.829 --> 00:29:16.589
of more control over terms and structures as
00:29:16.589 --> 00:29:18.910
opposed to like, you know, backdoor deals where
00:29:18.910 --> 00:29:20.630
it's like, if you stay with us, we'll give you
00:29:20.630 --> 00:29:23.250
X kickbacks. Like I get the sense you guys are
00:29:23.250 --> 00:29:25.650
very much like let's build on chain. Let's be
00:29:25.650 --> 00:29:28.829
very transparent. How do you feel like layer
00:29:28.829 --> 00:29:32.980
33 fits in that, in that world? So funny enough
00:29:32.980 --> 00:29:38.079
with with pie I'm actually interviewing a on
00:29:38.079 --> 00:29:40.819
the index podcast in January. I like those guys
00:29:40.819 --> 00:29:44.980
a lot I was at their their coffee event at breakpoint.
00:29:44.980 --> 00:29:49.000
I like the way they're thinking Staking is very
00:29:49.000 --> 00:29:55.359
boring Validators are very boring. So It's it's
00:29:55.359 --> 00:29:59.519
in a need of a facelift Badly, which I don't
00:29:59.519 --> 00:30:02.539
think layer 33 is that facelift at all but something
00:30:02.539 --> 00:30:07.259
like Pi could be. There's only so many things
00:30:07.259 --> 00:30:10.779
you can do on chain right now, and having one
00:30:10.779 --> 00:30:13.579
of them be, you know, sort of a one -click forget
00:30:13.579 --> 00:30:17.559
and walk away is probably not the best, right?
00:30:17.700 --> 00:30:22.059
So I love the idea that Pi is going with structuring
00:30:22.059 --> 00:30:25.799
these deals based on staking, finding new ways,
00:30:25.799 --> 00:30:28.519
you know, to monetize from not only the validator's
00:30:28.519 --> 00:30:32.359
point of view, but also for stakers. to make
00:30:32.359 --> 00:30:35.480
deals on chain with their stake. I really love
00:30:35.480 --> 00:30:39.000
the concept and it was sort of inevitable that
00:30:39.000 --> 00:30:41.519
this was going to come up and I'm glad that the
00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:46.279
Pi team is the one to do it. Also, this is a
00:30:46.279 --> 00:30:49.579
much better alternative than these like behind
00:30:49.579 --> 00:30:53.000
the scenes bespoke deals that are happening.
00:30:53.519 --> 00:30:55.859
It's much better for the ecosystem for it to
00:30:55.859 --> 00:31:00.509
go down this way. Versus, you know what happens
00:31:00.509 --> 00:31:03.309
now which is like people with millions of soul
00:31:03.309 --> 00:31:05.369
or make are either running their own validators
00:31:05.369 --> 00:31:07.349
are making deals with other validators and fees
00:31:07.349 --> 00:31:11.329
and a lot of like like they're basically getting
00:31:11.329 --> 00:31:13.069
They're making deals where they're getting like
00:31:13.069 --> 00:31:15.869
priority fees that regular stakers like, you
00:31:15.869 --> 00:31:20.029
know, like you and I are not getting which Which
00:31:20.029 --> 00:31:23.390
makes us much more like traditional finance then
00:31:23.390 --> 00:31:26.150
web three, right? We want to be we want to be
00:31:26.150 --> 00:31:32.099
different Not just the same but on chain Fair
00:31:32.099 --> 00:31:34.099
well said I'm glad you guys are thinking about
00:31:34.099 --> 00:31:37.559
it, you know in the realm of this and you know
00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:40.099
You think about institutional capital and that's
00:31:40.099 --> 00:31:41.740
kind of like what you've alluded to a lot of
00:31:41.740 --> 00:31:43.920
it Just ends up being with the biggest players,
00:31:44.440 --> 00:31:47.240
you know What is it? What does it take to get
00:31:47.240 --> 00:31:49.599
these institutional players as they look at Solana?
00:31:49.740 --> 00:31:51.519
I think about this is a network. We want to support
00:31:51.519 --> 00:31:54.160
because we believe in its growth and it's part
00:31:54.160 --> 00:31:58.240
of you know, the new financialization, economy,
00:31:58.759 --> 00:32:00.960
what does it get them to look at layer 33? Like,
00:32:01.099 --> 00:32:04.619
how do you think about that? Is Pi a part of
00:32:04.619 --> 00:32:07.700
that? Is there other pieces you think that you
00:32:07.700 --> 00:32:11.500
need? Or is it really just as simple as become
00:32:11.500 --> 00:32:15.819
big enough that they can't ignore you? Yeah,
00:32:15.819 --> 00:32:22.079
it's that one. It's institutions listen to power
00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:26.480
and influence. That's That's just sort of like
00:32:26.480 --> 00:32:30.400
how the world works and as you can see like where
00:32:30.400 --> 00:32:33.859
institutions stake now They stake with the teams
00:32:33.859 --> 00:32:38.380
that have the most power and influence And that's
00:32:38.380 --> 00:32:40.799
that is not a shot at anyone that's just the
00:32:40.799 --> 00:32:45.000
way the world works so like The only way for
00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:47.460
a group of independent validators to compete
00:32:47.460 --> 00:32:51.319
for you know Fidelity's validator later there
00:32:51.319 --> 00:32:55.490
or their stake is to be like, yeah like We're
00:32:55.490 --> 00:32:59.309
an operation with not 200 ,000 soul, but we're
00:32:59.309 --> 00:33:01.369
a combined operation of 18 million soul, which
00:33:01.369 --> 00:33:04.029
makes us the biggest, you know, validator in
00:33:04.029 --> 00:33:06.630
Solana. Um, and these are the connections we
00:33:06.630 --> 00:33:08.390
have, and this is the money we have, and these
00:33:08.390 --> 00:33:11.549
are the products we have. Like now we can compete
00:33:11.549 --> 00:33:14.750
with, uh, with everyone, but yeah, no part of
00:33:14.750 --> 00:33:18.269
me thinks it's like, Oh, just stick with layer
00:33:18.269 --> 00:33:20.509
33 because decentralization, it's the right thing
00:33:20.509 --> 00:33:22.390
to do. Like, I think people within our space
00:33:22.390 --> 00:33:24.789
care about that. I think whales. within our space
00:33:24.789 --> 00:33:26.869
care about that and as they should, but when
00:33:26.869 --> 00:33:28.829
talking to institutions, like that's just not,
00:33:29.109 --> 00:33:32.430
that's not their language, which is fine. You
00:33:32.430 --> 00:33:35.049
got to meet them halfway. The way to look at
00:33:35.049 --> 00:33:38.869
it is like the tools, the control, the things
00:33:38.869 --> 00:33:41.890
you build, the philosophy, the centralization
00:33:41.890 --> 00:33:47.049
is what helps you become big enough to then attract
00:33:47.049 --> 00:33:51.589
the fidelity to then springboard forward. And
00:33:51.589 --> 00:33:53.910
then when Fidelity shows up and they go, oh,
00:33:54.029 --> 00:33:58.029
layer 33, who are these guys? If they then care
00:33:58.029 --> 00:34:02.490
about the extra pieces that you care about, then
00:34:02.490 --> 00:34:04.569
that's when it's like a, like a real, like a
00:34:04.569 --> 00:34:06.910
real, like kind of match that's made. Cause it's
00:34:06.910 --> 00:34:08.730
not just like, oh, there's this finance. Oh,
00:34:08.809 --> 00:34:11.449
I know. Then you go layer 33. Oh, I don't know
00:34:11.449 --> 00:34:12.949
them. And you take a look under the hood and
00:34:12.949 --> 00:34:15.690
you go, oh shit. Like they're actually doing
00:34:15.690 --> 00:34:18.650
stuff that's sustainable long -term vision. That's
00:34:18.650 --> 00:34:21.889
like chain of line. This is compelling. Let me
00:34:21.889 --> 00:34:24.690
look into this. I think that is where the differentiator
00:34:24.690 --> 00:34:29.250
Yeah, definitely But the the like we were saying
00:34:29.250 --> 00:34:31.630
and I think I think we agree on this the first
00:34:31.630 --> 00:34:34.090
Conversation doesn't ever even happen unless
00:34:34.090 --> 00:34:36.230
we have enough power and influence within our
00:34:36.230 --> 00:34:39.610
group Which one individual validator from like
00:34:39.610 --> 00:34:43.230
a layer 33 set type of set would just won't have
00:34:43.230 --> 00:34:49.170
Yes, that's fair that's fair Talk to me about
00:34:49.170 --> 00:34:52.010
layer 33. What's your most underrated tool or
00:34:52.010 --> 00:34:53.590
can you give me any tidbits on what you guys
00:34:53.590 --> 00:34:57.369
are working off in this group? They'll like public
00:34:57.369 --> 00:35:00.369
ones are just Transaction landing which some
00:35:00.369 --> 00:35:02.030
people are bullish on some are bearish on but
00:35:02.030 --> 00:35:03.889
in the short term, it's a great revenue generator
00:35:03.889 --> 00:35:08.070
for these independent validators The RPC it were
00:35:08.070 --> 00:35:09.789
publicly talked about we don't have anything
00:35:09.789 --> 00:35:12.469
to show for it yet We're hoping like end of January
00:35:12.469 --> 00:35:15.130
to search like literally offering our own RPC
00:35:15.130 --> 00:35:19.840
service. We have oh shit We have servers globally
00:35:19.840 --> 00:35:23.500
around the world. All of our validators have
00:35:23.500 --> 00:35:26.179
the three servers. They have mainnet, testnet,
00:35:26.340 --> 00:35:28.800
and then backup, which allows us to basically
00:35:28.800 --> 00:35:32.460
have infinite coverage globally. On top of we
00:35:32.460 --> 00:35:36.280
have an abundance of data because we have 18
00:35:36.280 --> 00:35:40.460
million sole under the hood being staked. So
00:35:40.460 --> 00:35:43.900
we think that it's going to be a very competitive
00:35:43.900 --> 00:35:47.769
RPC service. And our thought on it is like, it's
00:35:47.769 --> 00:35:49.809
really thin margins on RPCs. So we're thinking
00:35:49.809 --> 00:35:54.909
like, even if we can't be profitable on it, it's
00:35:54.909 --> 00:35:57.469
like if we can show that we have the chops to
00:35:57.469 --> 00:36:00.030
deliver something like this within a couple months
00:36:00.030 --> 00:36:03.110
of launching, you know, from idea to this, we
00:36:03.110 --> 00:36:06.409
think that that will propel us quite a bit. Like
00:36:06.409 --> 00:36:09.289
we are happy to launch this, have a few, you
00:36:09.289 --> 00:36:11.750
know, have a nice handful of customers, show
00:36:11.750 --> 00:36:16.960
some competency. and break even, we're happy
00:36:16.960 --> 00:36:21.539
as can be. And then post that, we have our more
00:36:21.539 --> 00:36:25.000
secret products where we're thinking a bit bigger,
00:36:25.219 --> 00:36:26.960
right? That's where we're starting to really
00:36:26.960 --> 00:36:29.300
throw our weight around. These are the products
00:36:29.300 --> 00:36:32.460
where it's like, hey, talking to the group, what's
00:36:32.460 --> 00:36:35.119
your dream? What do you really wanna build if
00:36:35.119 --> 00:36:38.559
you had the marketing and BD resources? And that's
00:36:38.559 --> 00:36:41.780
where I think layer 33 is gonna really shine.
00:36:43.130 --> 00:36:46.110
Very cool. Very cool. All right. Well, as we
00:36:46.110 --> 00:36:48.289
get closer to wrapping this up, I know it's late
00:36:48.289 --> 00:36:52.489
on your end. Uh, one more cheeky question. Do
00:36:52.489 --> 00:36:57.329
you think Solana can survive without foundation
00:36:57.329 --> 00:37:01.809
support? And if not now, is that the inevitable
00:37:01.809 --> 00:37:04.030
future? Or do you think that foundation will
00:37:04.030 --> 00:37:12.780
always need to exist to a certain degree? I get
00:37:12.780 --> 00:37:14.880
this whole, like, oh, it's a lot of foundations
00:37:14.880 --> 00:37:17.719
trying to work themselves out of a job. I don't
00:37:17.719 --> 00:37:19.500
know if this is controversial. I don't really
00:37:19.500 --> 00:37:27.440
get why. They do a good job. Like, what's wrong
00:37:27.440 --> 00:37:33.059
with having a foundation that sort of pours gasoline
00:37:33.059 --> 00:37:36.139
onto the right spots? I think they're really
00:37:36.139 --> 00:37:38.920
efficient. I think they're the most effective,
00:37:38.920 --> 00:37:43.719
like, Web 3. foundation by miles. Um, so I hope
00:37:43.719 --> 00:37:46.360
that they stick around. Uh, I find them very
00:37:46.360 --> 00:37:49.820
effective. Um, if not, I think my prediction
00:37:49.820 --> 00:37:53.360
is the foundation will get replaced by, um, cause
00:37:53.360 --> 00:37:54.519
there's going to need, the biggest thing is going
00:37:54.519 --> 00:37:57.420
to be funding, right? You need, you need funding
00:37:57.420 --> 00:38:02.280
for, you know, like new startups, um, and education
00:38:02.280 --> 00:38:04.659
and all that. So I think what, what they would
00:38:04.659 --> 00:38:08.980
be replaced by is like the, the biggest unicorns
00:38:08.980 --> 00:38:12.800
on Solana. Would sort of take on that role. Yeah,
00:38:12.800 --> 00:38:15.960
there'd be like, you know 5 10 15 20 something
00:38:15.960 --> 00:38:19.639
like that of like the unicorn type teams and
00:38:19.639 --> 00:38:23.219
products on Solana that are Making enough revenue
00:38:23.219 --> 00:38:25.780
where they can sort of fit that into their into
00:38:25.780 --> 00:38:29.159
their budget To take on that lead as well. But
00:38:29.159 --> 00:38:30.880
yeah, I hope I really hope it does stick around
00:38:30.880 --> 00:38:33.139
I don't I don't love the whole like oh worse.
00:38:33.139 --> 00:38:34.780
They're working themselves out of a job thing.
00:38:34.880 --> 00:38:39.199
I think they're extremely effective I Wholeheartedly
00:38:39.199 --> 00:38:43.460
agree And then also agree with the backup statement.
00:38:44.559 --> 00:38:45.940
And I kind of think it's an eventuality that
00:38:45.940 --> 00:38:48.619
we have to deal with. I also think like, you
00:38:48.619 --> 00:38:51.360
know, you think about how ANZ has spun out, Coliseum
00:38:51.360 --> 00:38:53.739
spun out, these different things. You would likely
00:38:53.739 --> 00:38:56.639
see spin outs and then you would see familiar
00:38:56.639 --> 00:39:00.260
faces anyways, but I'm in the same camp. Foundation,
00:39:00.699 --> 00:39:04.079
stick around. If you feel like retiring, hire
00:39:04.079 --> 00:39:06.460
the next brilliant replacement and keep it going.
00:39:07.190 --> 00:39:09.710
That's true. If it does go away, you're right.
00:39:09.730 --> 00:39:11.329
They'll probably just spin out to something That's
00:39:11.329 --> 00:39:13.510
not called slana foundation like oh, this is
00:39:13.510 --> 00:39:15.550
not slana foundation, but it actually just is
00:39:15.550 --> 00:39:18.869
with a different name now We have we have you
00:39:18.869 --> 00:39:21.409
know, we have our Anzas and our metaplexes and
00:39:21.409 --> 00:39:30.550
and what else Coliseum yeah double zero That's
00:39:30.550 --> 00:39:32.309
that's a kind of the controversial statement
00:39:32.309 --> 00:39:36.190
to end it with Well, we don't get back to your
00:39:36.190 --> 00:39:38.269
office if some people are gonna be mad at you
00:39:38.269 --> 00:39:40.170
That's okay. That's like mine. That's my next
00:39:40.170 --> 00:39:43.230
podcast anyways to two from now here from now
00:39:43.230 --> 00:39:46.469
Yeah, all right, sir. That'll be the is is fire
00:39:46.469 --> 00:39:49.469
dancer a Solana foundation product like don't
00:39:49.469 --> 00:39:54.929
answer that Don't answer that oh That's good.
00:39:54.929 --> 00:39:57.630
That's good. Well, listen, thanks for coming
00:39:57.630 --> 00:40:01.650
on You know exo tech is we run a validator and
00:40:01.650 --> 00:40:04.320
we're very interested in what you're doing And
00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:07.360
we look forward to more conversations and, you
00:40:07.360 --> 00:40:09.679
know, to seeing the place desexualized for the
00:40:09.679 --> 00:40:11.699
long run. So, Neki, thanks for coming on the
00:40:11.699 --> 00:40:16.099
podcast and fucking happy holidays, buddy. Happy
00:40:16.099 --> 00:40:19.159
holidays. Merry Christmas. Happy Hanukkah for
00:40:19.159 --> 00:40:21.820
those celebrating this week. And yeah, we'll
00:40:21.820 --> 00:40:26.280
talk more dirt. Absolutely. Cheers, buddy. Cheers.