WEBVTT
00:00:03.759 --> 00:00:05.919
Hey, welcome back to the Lars Clarsen show.
00:00:06.000 --> 00:00:08.160
On First Amendment Friday, it's a pleasure to be with you.
00:00:08.240 --> 00:00:10.800
And yeah, you're hearing a little bit of a frog in my voice.
00:00:10.960 --> 00:00:14.240
That may be the wildfire smoke that I've been breathing lately.
00:00:14.480 --> 00:00:18.719
But uh on First Amendment Friday, all your calls are welcome at 866-A Lars.
00:00:19.039 --> 00:00:22.480
That's 866-439-5277.
00:00:22.640 --> 00:00:25.679
Send your emails to talk at LarsLarson.com.
00:00:25.839 --> 00:00:37.759
As we all know, every single product that you buy or use arrives on a truck, a train, a ship, a plane, and now there is a bill that may make that ride for the product cost a bit more.
00:00:37.920 --> 00:00:41.039
Is it a hidden tax that's about to hit everything that you own?
00:00:41.200 --> 00:00:46.960
I thought we talked to Patrick McLaughlin, who is an economist and research fellow at the Hoover Institution.
00:00:47.119 --> 00:00:48.719
Patrick, welcome to the program.
00:00:49.600 --> 00:00:51.280
Lars, I'm glad to be back on.
00:00:51.359 --> 00:00:55.840
I'm dealing with the smoke over here myself, so forgive me if I have a frog in my throat.
00:00:56.240 --> 00:01:01.280
No, it's uh it's pretty fierce, and uh we've been breathing it for days and days, and I'm hoping it goes away soon.
00:01:01.359 --> 00:01:02.079
But tell me this.
00:01:02.240 --> 00:01:10.079
What what is the secret in this infrastructure bill that it's gonna have a dramatic effect on the cost of delivering goods and services?
00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:21.359
Well, the the normally these infrastructure reauthorizations are going to fund maintenance on roads, bridges, and not many people are gonna object to that.
00:01:21.519 --> 00:01:24.640
We we obviously need infrastructure to be maintained.
00:01:24.799 --> 00:01:24.959
Right.
00:01:25.200 --> 00:01:32.640
But there's some regulatory amendments that that will be taken up at some point in the Senate, uh, well, in the House as well.
00:01:32.719 --> 00:01:38.719
They've they've gotten out a committee in the House, and they'll probably pass the whole House and go over to the Senate in the near future.
00:01:38.959 --> 00:01:51.920
And what those amendments do is add on a bunch of new regulations to particularly the rail freight industry, uh, on top of all of the existing regulations that are already there.
00:01:52.159 --> 00:01:57.920
And as you said, everything that the American family takes home is is taking a ride first.
00:01:58.000 --> 00:02:05.519
Everything you buy in the grocery store has been shipped by truck or train, ship, or plane, and the cost of that freight shipping is embedded in your prices.
00:02:05.599 --> 00:02:09.360
It's in the grocery costs, it's in the cost of cars, it's in fuel prices.
00:02:09.520 --> 00:02:22.719
And if we add more regulations through this bill on top of the stockpile of regulations that have built up over decades, we're talking about a hidden tax that gets slipped into the price of your groceries.
00:02:22.879 --> 00:02:26.319
It's uh it's going to make prices go up by some amount.
00:02:26.560 --> 00:02:30.400
And the real relevant question here is is it worth it?
00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:39.599
Are we getting more safety or other goals of the regulations for those higher prices that consumers at the end of the day are going to be paying for everything that they buy?
00:02:39.919 --> 00:02:43.759
I'm talking to Patrick McLaughlin, who's an economist and a research fellow at Hoover.
00:02:43.840 --> 00:02:48.960
So tell me this more regulations does not sound like a conservative thing to do.
00:02:49.039 --> 00:02:51.199
It doesn't even sound like a Republican thing to do.
00:02:51.439 --> 00:02:55.520
Certainly doesn't sound like something you'd put into Build America 250.
00:02:55.680 --> 00:03:06.400
Why did they see it as necessary to add a bunch of new rules and regulations when that's usually what conservatives, uh like me, are begging for people to back out of the system?
00:03:06.560 --> 00:03:07.919
Why add more?
00:03:09.439 --> 00:03:16.240
There was a train accident uh in East Palestine, Ohio about years ago.
00:03:16.960 --> 00:03:21.039
Yeah, and that it caused a uh a lot of commotion.
00:03:21.199 --> 00:03:37.840
There were some very um viral pictures of smoke plumes rising into the air, and it became an opportunity for uh people on both sides of the aisle to uh agitate for more regulation.
00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:40.159
Why are Republicans agitating for it?
00:03:40.400 --> 00:03:42.240
I think it's a political opportunity for them.
00:03:42.400 --> 00:03:49.840
They see a chance to get some constituency that hasn't been voting for them in the past to perhaps vote more Republican going forward.
00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:55.919
And specifically, I'm talking about uh a component of these this regulatory proposal.
00:03:56.000 --> 00:04:05.439
Uh is there's a a mandate that freight trains would have to have at least two crew operators in in the locomotive of a train at all times.
00:04:05.599 --> 00:04:08.240
Almost all freight trains would have to have this now going forward.
00:04:08.319 --> 00:04:10.800
Now, Lars, that's already more or less the standard.
00:04:10.879 --> 00:04:13.599
There's you know very few operations in in the U.S.
00:04:13.919 --> 00:04:16.720
that have uh less than two people in the crew.
00:04:16.800 --> 00:04:20.240
And in fact, that accident in Ohio, there were three people in the crew.
00:04:20.560 --> 00:04:33.680
Yeah, they I was I was I was just gonna say that when they started to talk about more regulations, I recall we pointed out, no, you already had more than that on board the train, so it wouldn't have changed East Palestine at all, would it?
00:04:34.560 --> 00:04:39.439
It would not have changed it at all, at least in terms of the number of people uh operating the train.
00:04:39.519 --> 00:05:00.000
Um but what it's going to do is, you know, 10 years down the road, 20 years down the road, especially if this gets embedded in legislation as opposed to just regulation, it's going to be much harder for the technologies that are being developed in in some places are already in place to allow one person or even fully autonomous operations to happen.
00:05:00.160 --> 00:05:13.199
And this is all at the same time, you know, we're restricting or talking about restricting how trains can operate at the same time as allowing more and more autonomous cars and autonomous trucks to be on the roads.
00:05:13.360 --> 00:05:29.600
And so the you know, the political dynamics are all about we're seeing, we're seeing politicians say, look, we can protect a certain class of jobs in a certain industry for the long run, for 10, 20, or 30 years.
00:05:29.759 --> 00:05:34.959
Even if there's new technology that could do your job better than you, we're gonna make sure your job is still there.
00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:46.879
And that's great for the people who get those jobs, but that's not gonna be great for consumers because now we're not gonna be allowing more efficient operations, faster operations, and really ultimately lower freight shipping prices.
00:05:47.279 --> 00:05:51.839
Now, Patrick, I could be wrong about this, but there's a term called feather bedding.
00:05:52.000 --> 00:06:01.120
And my understanding is that where that came from was when uh freight trains used to be powered by coal uh or wood, and then they went to oil.
00:06:01.279 --> 00:06:08.319
And you said, well, if we used to have to have a fireman, uh it wasn't a you know, there wasn't a lot of diversity in the in the workforce.
00:06:08.480 --> 00:06:24.480
But in uh if you had to have a fireman to either shovel coal into the boiler or uh or shovel or put wood into the boiler, and you know you don't need it because the fuel comes in on a pipe from a big diesel tank, and they said, Oh, but you can't fire that person, and they featherbedded the person.
00:06:24.560 --> 00:06:32.160
The person would have to show up, get on the train, ride around on the train, get paid their full salary for the job that didn't exist anymore.
00:06:32.319 --> 00:06:35.759
It sounds like this is just a 21st century version of that.
00:06:37.920 --> 00:06:40.560
You know, I that's an interesting story.
00:06:40.639 --> 00:06:48.319
I I I hesitate to use the term exactly because I don't know that all politicians are going to be uh uh in that camp or not.
00:06:48.480 --> 00:06:58.399
But I will say this just because you called a set of regulations safety regulations or you call a bill a safety bill, that does not mean it's actually creating safety.
00:06:58.560 --> 00:06:58.800
Right.
00:06:59.040 --> 00:07:13.839
And so, and there's there's plenty of evidence in the US as well as look at Europe and Australia, where there's one-person crews and zero-person crews being widely used and deployed, that uh that having more people in the crew does not increase safety.
00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:22.240
And when you have proper operations and technology in place, one person and zero-person crews can operate just as safely as two-person crews.
00:07:22.560 --> 00:07:23.360
Absolutely right.
00:07:23.439 --> 00:07:24.879
That's Patrick McLaughlin.
00:07:25.040 --> 00:07:26.160
Patrick, thanks very much.
00:07:26.319 --> 00:07:29.040
He's a research fellow at the Hoover Institution.
00:07:29.199 --> 00:07:33.279
I also want to tell you about sleeping, because sleep is important to me.
00:07:33.439 --> 00:07:36.160
Do you really want another summer like last summer?
00:07:36.319 --> 00:07:40.959
Remember when you barely slept all last summer because you were too hot all night long?
00:07:41.120 --> 00:07:44.319
Well, people blame the summertime heat for bad sleep.
00:07:44.480 --> 00:07:48.879
But what it really might be is their mattress trapping heat against your body.
00:07:49.040 --> 00:07:52.000
If you already sleep too hot, summer only makes it worse.
00:07:52.160 --> 00:07:54.240
And that's why I switched to a ghost bed.
00:07:54.560 --> 00:08:01.519
Helps keep you cool at night, no waking up sweaty, or tossing and turning, or throwing the covers off at two o'clock in the morning.
00:08:01.759 --> 00:08:05.839
Cooling technology, it's built into every single ghost bed mattress.
00:08:06.000 --> 00:08:09.600
It's not some expensive upgrade that you have to pay extra for.
00:08:09.839 --> 00:08:13.199
Hot sleepers are some of Ghostbeds' happiest customers.
00:08:13.360 --> 00:08:14.560
Just read the reviews.
00:08:14.720 --> 00:08:16.560
Plus, the support is incredible.
00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:19.759
Less stiffness, deeper sleep, more rested mornings.
00:08:19.920 --> 00:08:23.040
Ghostbed gives you 101 nights to try it at home.
00:08:23.199 --> 00:08:27.199
So you can sleep on it all summer long and feel the difference for yourself.
00:08:27.439 --> 00:08:30.240
How many more summers are you going to waste on bad sleep?
00:08:30.399 --> 00:08:37.600
Right now, Ghostbed is celebrating by honoring my audience, the loyal Lars listeners, with an extra 10% off.
00:08:37.679 --> 00:08:41.120
With financing some ghost beds work out to a dollar a day.
00:08:41.279 --> 00:08:43.679
Go to ghostbed.com slash Lars.
00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:44.879
Promo code Lars.
00:08:45.120 --> 00:08:47.679
That's ghostbed.comslash Lars.
00:00:03.759 --> 00:00:05.919
Hey, welcome back to the Lars Clarsen show.
00:00:06.000 --> 00:00:08.160
On First Amendment Friday, it's a pleasure to be with you.
00:00:08.240 --> 00:00:10.800
And yeah, you're hearing a little bit of a frog in my voice.
00:00:10.960 --> 00:00:14.240
That may be the wildfire smoke that I've been breathing lately.
00:00:14.480 --> 00:00:18.719
But uh on First Amendment Friday, all your calls are welcome at 866-A Lars.
00:00:19.039 --> 00:00:22.480
That's 866-439-5277.
00:00:22.640 --> 00:00:25.679
Send your emails to talk at LarsLarson.com.
00:00:25.839 --> 00:00:37.759
As we all know, every single product that you buy or use arrives on a truck, a train, a ship, a plane, and now there is a bill that may make that ride for the product cost a bit more.
00:00:37.920 --> 00:00:41.039
Is it a hidden tax that's about to hit everything that you own?
00:00:41.200 --> 00:00:46.960
I thought we talked to Patrick McLaughlin, who is an economist and research fellow at the Hoover Institution.
00:00:47.119 --> 00:00:48.719
Patrick, welcome to the program.
00:00:49.600 --> 00:00:51.280
Lars, I'm glad to be back on.
00:00:51.359 --> 00:00:55.840
I'm dealing with the smoke over here myself, so forgive me if I have a frog in my throat.
00:00:56.240 --> 00:01:01.280
No, it's uh it's pretty fierce, and uh we've been breathing it for days and days, and I'm hoping it goes away soon.
00:01:01.359 --> 00:01:02.079
But tell me this.
00:01:02.240 --> 00:01:10.079
What what is the secret in this infrastructure bill that it's gonna have a dramatic effect on the cost of delivering goods and services?
00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:21.359
Well, the the normally these infrastructure reauthorizations are going to fund maintenance on roads, bridges, and not many people are gonna object to that.
00:01:21.519 --> 00:01:24.640
We we obviously need infrastructure to be maintained.
00:01:24.799 --> 00:01:24.959
Right.
00:01:25.200 --> 00:01:32.640
But there's some regulatory amendments that that will be taken up at some point in the Senate, uh, well, in the House as well.
00:01:32.719 --> 00:01:38.719
They've they've gotten out a committee in the House, and they'll probably pass the whole House and go over to the Senate in the near future.
00:01:38.959 --> 00:01:51.920
And what those amendments do is add on a bunch of new regulations to particularly the rail freight industry, uh, on top of all of the existing regulations that are already there.
00:01:52.159 --> 00:01:57.920
And as you said, everything that the American family takes home is is taking a ride first.
00:01:58.000 --> 00:02:05.519
Everything you buy in the grocery store has been shipped by truck or train, ship, or plane, and the cost of that freight shipping is embedded in your prices.
00:02:05.599 --> 00:02:09.360
It's in the grocery costs, it's in the cost of cars, it's in fuel prices.
00:02:09.520 --> 00:02:22.719
And if we add more regulations through this bill on top of the stockpile of regulations that have built up over decades, we're talking about a hidden tax that gets slipped into the price of your groceries.
00:02:22.879 --> 00:02:26.319
It's uh it's going to make prices go up by some amount.
00:02:26.560 --> 00:02:30.400
And the real relevant question here is is it worth it?
00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:39.599
Are we getting more safety or other goals of the regulations for those higher prices that consumers at the end of the day are going to be paying for everything that they buy?
00:02:39.919 --> 00:02:43.759
I'm talking to Patrick McLaughlin, who's an economist and a research fellow at Hoover.
00:02:43.840 --> 00:02:48.960
So tell me this more regulations does not sound like a conservative thing to do.
00:02:49.039 --> 00:02:51.199
It doesn't even sound like a Republican thing to do.
00:02:51.439 --> 00:02:55.520
Certainly doesn't sound like something you'd put into Build America 250.
00:02:55.680 --> 00:03:06.400
Why did they see it as necessary to add a bunch of new rules and regulations when that's usually what conservatives, uh like me, are begging for people to back out of the system?
00:03:06.560 --> 00:03:07.919
Why add more?
00:03:09.439 --> 00:03:16.240
There was a train accident uh in East Palestine, Ohio about years ago.
00:03:16.960 --> 00:03:21.039
Yeah, and that it caused a uh a lot of commotion.
00:03:21.199 --> 00:03:37.840
There were some very um viral pictures of smoke plumes rising into the air, and it became an opportunity for uh people on both sides of the aisle to uh agitate for more regulation.
00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:40.159
Why are Republicans agitating for it?
00:03:40.400 --> 00:03:42.240
I think it's a political opportunity for them.
00:03:42.400 --> 00:03:49.840
They see a chance to get some constituency that hasn't been voting for them in the past to perhaps vote more Republican going forward.
00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:55.919
And specifically, I'm talking about uh a component of these this regulatory proposal.
00:03:56.000 --> 00:04:05.439
Uh is there's a a mandate that freight trains would have to have at least two crew operators in in the locomotive of a train at all times.
00:04:05.599 --> 00:04:08.240
Almost all freight trains would have to have this now going forward.
00:04:08.319 --> 00:04:10.800
Now, Lars, that's already more or less the standard.
00:04:10.879 --> 00:04:13.599
There's you know very few operations in in the U.S.
00:04:13.919 --> 00:04:16.720
that have uh less than two people in the crew.
00:04:16.800 --> 00:04:20.240
And in fact, that accident in Ohio, there were three people in the crew.
00:04:20.560 --> 00:04:33.680
Yeah, they I was I was I was just gonna say that when they started to talk about more regulations, I recall we pointed out, no, you already had more than that on board the train, so it wouldn't have changed East Palestine at all, would it?
00:04:34.560 --> 00:04:39.439
It would not have changed it at all, at least in terms of the number of people uh operating the train.
00:04:39.519 --> 00:05:00.000
Um but what it's going to do is, you know, 10 years down the road, 20 years down the road, especially if this gets embedded in legislation as opposed to just regulation, it's going to be much harder for the technologies that are being developed in in some places are already in place to allow one person or even fully autonomous operations to happen.
00:05:00.160 --> 00:05:13.199
And this is all at the same time, you know, we're restricting or talking about restricting how trains can operate at the same time as allowing more and more autonomous cars and autonomous trucks to be on the roads.
00:05:13.360 --> 00:05:29.600
And so the you know, the political dynamics are all about we're seeing, we're seeing politicians say, look, we can protect a certain class of jobs in a certain industry for the long run, for 10, 20, or 30 years.
00:05:29.759 --> 00:05:34.959
Even if there's new technology that could do your job better than you, we're gonna make sure your job is still there.
00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:46.879
And that's great for the people who get those jobs, but that's not gonna be great for consumers because now we're not gonna be allowing more efficient operations, faster operations, and really ultimately lower freight shipping prices.
00:05:47.279 --> 00:05:51.839
Now, Patrick, I could be wrong about this, but there's a term called feather bedding.
00:05:52.000 --> 00:06:01.120
And my understanding is that where that came from was when uh freight trains used to be powered by coal uh or wood, and then they went to oil.
00:06:01.279 --> 00:06:08.319
And you said, well, if we used to have to have a fireman, uh it wasn't a you know, there wasn't a lot of diversity in the in the workforce.
00:06:08.480 --> 00:06:24.480
But in uh if you had to have a fireman to either shovel coal into the boiler or uh or shovel or put wood into the boiler, and you know you don't need it because the fuel comes in on a pipe from a big diesel tank, and they said, Oh, but you can't fire that person, and they featherbedded the person.
00:06:24.560 --> 00:06:32.160
The person would have to show up, get on the train, ride around on the train, get paid their full salary for the job that didn't exist anymore.
00:06:32.319 --> 00:06:35.759
It sounds like this is just a 21st century version of that.
00:06:37.920 --> 00:06:40.560
You know, I that's an interesting story.
00:06:40.639 --> 00:06:48.319
I I I hesitate to use the term exactly because I don't know that all politicians are going to be uh uh in that camp or not.
00:06:48.480 --> 00:06:58.399
But I will say this just because you called a set of regulations safety regulations or you call a bill a safety bill, that does not mean it's actually creating safety.
00:06:58.560 --> 00:06:58.800
Right.
00:06:59.040 --> 00:07:13.839
And so, and there's there's plenty of evidence in the US as well as look at Europe and Australia, where there's one-person crews and zero-person crews being widely used and deployed, that uh that having more people in the crew does not increase safety.
00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:22.240
And when you have proper operations and technology in place, one person and zero-person crews can operate just as safely as two-person crews.
00:07:22.560 --> 00:07:23.360
Absolutely right.
00:07:23.439 --> 00:07:24.879
That's Patrick McLaughlin.
00:07:25.040 --> 00:07:26.160
Patrick, thanks very much.
00:07:26.319 --> 00:07:29.040
He's a research fellow at the Hoover Institution.
00:07:29.199 --> 00:07:33.279
I also want to tell you about sleeping, because sleep is important to me.
00:07:33.439 --> 00:07:36.160
Do you really want another summer like last summer?
00:07:36.319 --> 00:07:40.959
Remember when you barely slept all last summer because you were too hot all night long?
00:07:41.120 --> 00:07:44.319
Well, people blame the summertime heat for bad sleep.
00:07:44.480 --> 00:07:48.879
But what it really might be is their mattress trapping heat against your body.
00:07:49.040 --> 00:07:52.000
If you already sleep too hot, summer only makes it worse.
00:07:52.160 --> 00:07:54.240
And that's why I switched to a ghost bed.
00:07:54.560 --> 00:08:01.519
Helps keep you cool at night, no waking up sweaty, or tossing and turning, or throwing the covers off at two o'clock in the morning.
00:08:01.759 --> 00:08:05.839
Cooling technology, it's built into every single ghost bed mattress.
00:08:06.000 --> 00:08:09.600
It's not some expensive upgrade that you have to pay extra for.
00:08:09.839 --> 00:08:13.199
Hot sleepers are some of Ghostbeds' happiest customers.
00:08:13.360 --> 00:08:14.560
Just read the reviews.
00:08:14.720 --> 00:08:16.560
Plus, the support is incredible.
00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:19.759
Less stiffness, deeper sleep, more rested mornings.
00:08:19.920 --> 00:08:23.040
Ghostbed gives you 101 nights to try it at home.
00:08:23.199 --> 00:08:27.199
So you can sleep on it all summer long and feel the difference for yourself.
00:08:27.439 --> 00:08:30.240
How many more summers are you going to waste on bad sleep?
00:08:30.399 --> 00:08:37.600
Right now, Ghostbed is celebrating by honoring my audience, the loyal Lars listeners, with an extra 10% off.
00:08:37.679 --> 00:08:41.120
With financing some ghost beds work out to a dollar a day.
00:08:41.279 --> 00:08:43.679
Go to ghostbed.com slash Lars.
00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:44.879
Promo code Lars.
00:08:45.120 --> 00:08:47.679
That's ghostbed.comslash Lars.
