sam david wilkes: Hello everyone and welcome back to the Forged Within podcast where we have real people telling real stories about how mental health has shaped their lives and hopefully together we can start changing the stigma around mental health. So some lives don't fall apart all at once. They break down piece by piece until you're left with a choice to keep going or give up completely. And that can't be said enough today with our guest today, Marcus Chapman. So Marcus's story isn't a straight line, it's one shaped by chaos, pressure, loss and moments where things could have gone very differently. From growing up in a difficult environment to being misunderstood and struggling with anger from a young age to finding himself pulled into situations involving violence, drugs and survival. His life has been anything but simple, but what makes this conversation incredibly important? isn't just what he's been through, it's the fact he's still here. And at one point he had to make a decision, whether he was going to carry on on the same path or change his life completely. And today on this podcast, he's chosen to talk about that in general. So Marcus, I really appreciate you being here today. How are you feeling? Yeah, I'm feeling good, Sam. I appreciate you allowing me to come on here. I'm very excited about talking about this. I think it's going to be a good discussion. And I'm hoping that there'll be a lot of youngsters, male or female, that'll be able to relate and, you know, take time to look into their lives and see if there's any changes that they can make from hearing this podcast. So I'm excited. Fab, but I think I've just a bit of backstory out me and Marcus know each other. ⁓ When I started talking openly about my mental health, I was on TikTok a lot and we were part of a DSD community. where we would have daily logins where we come on and have open sessions and talk about our mental health. And it was an incredible period because it showed the togetherness of a community. Unfortunately, over time, as Marcus will say as well, ⁓ everyone went off in their separate ways. Some people were part of it that kind of weren't there for the same reasons of what we were there for. And it kind of fizzled out, but it... It's incredible to see where everyone is and it's incredible to hear your story today. And I know from experience and knowing bits about you that people really are going to learn a lot about you and about how to manage these situations. It's a massive thing at the moment back in South Wales with some of the aspects and topics we're going to cover today. And I just really appreciate you coming on and being 100 % honest with us. Yeah, no problem. I can't wait to get into this. Okay, so what we'll do, we'll start right at the beginning like we do every single week. So what I wanted, the first kind of question I want to ask is what was your life growing up in Low Soft? What was it like growing up for you? It's a seaside town. It's a little seaside town. It used to be a good fishing industry. The fishing industry ended in the 90s when I was born. Not much to do. It's governed by two estates. You know, there's the Witton and then there's the Gunton. So there's two main estates where I live. We're not bringing, weren't too bad. Obviously I wasn't rich or anything like that. It's poor family. No one owned our houses or anything like that. But we may do with what we had. I was a very sociable kid. You know, as a youngster, used to go around playing manhunt, building tree houses. You know, we had some good... amount of woods around us so you know I've done all the typical lad stuff you know that you would do in the 90s you know Kirby yeah just just I used to live on a road that was a circle so there was only one way in and then behind us was a cemetery so as a kid all the kids were around on that road we all hanged around together so you know there was like 20 of us that used to be you know playing manhunt doing silly stuff you know putting cans in the back of our bike wheels You know, all that, you know, Pokemon cards, all that type of stuff, you know, we may do with what we add and my early years were alright, you know, like I say, I was very sociable, so I was able to make friends quite quickly. I was very short in school, so I had to learn to stick up for myself because obviously at some point, you know, people wanted to bully me, so. I had to learn to defend myself, started doing boxing at a young age. Kung Fu, I went to army cadets, as you know the normal typical child stuff that you used to do. So I got to the age of say, I don't know, probably about 10, 10, 11. And I wouldn't say I was a naughty child, but I was very misunderstood because I was undiagnosed with ADHD. Back in the 90s ADHD wasn't really a thing. There was a kid that was diagnosed somewhere but other than that it wasn't really one of those things that you talk about. I was very mischievous, active a lot. I used to have a lot of hyper focus on certain subjects and then there would be certain things that just didn't want to do. You'll realise with ADHD if you don't want to do something you ain't doing it. There's no getting around it. It's just one of them things that were wide different like that. So my, my youngster years were. Yeah, just mischievous. I wasn't naughty at that stage. I wasn't very angry at that stage. When I got to my teenage years is when it started to go a little bit south. Do you think that you were misunderstood as a kid? Because I know now, like I work in an ALN school at the moment, SEND School in England, for children with assisted learning needs or autism and all that kind of stuff. And a lot of schools now are being diagnosed, children are being diagnosed early with more... neurodivergency which is ADHD which is autism as well but obviously going back to when we were in the 90s we were just classed as oh got that odd child over there always got bad behavior so do you think that people looked at you when they didn't understand you? Yeah most definitely um saying my dad's mother she she said that I was a devil child you know that's um that's who I was to her like um It got to the point when I was in middle school and stuff like that, the moment I'd speak up or I'd get a bit jokey in class, they'd be like, right, Marcus, I wouldn't even give me a chance, you know what I mean? Because they knew what I was like. They'd just cancel me out straight away. So I'd be sitting in the hallways, just, you know, being naughty. I had one teacher, her name was Miss Darcy, bless her soul. But ⁓ she'd come find me. had, you know, she knew, she knew I was different because I was very smart as a kid. you know, I'd get my work done really quickly and then that's when I'd be naughty. But if you can't challenge me in some way, then, you know, as a kid, I used to act up, you know what mean? And she realized that. So this lady, when she see that I'd been naughty, she'd take me into her office, she'd get the biscuit barrel out, you know, she'd put on the TV for me and she'd be like, right, I've got to go sort some stuff out, but you just sit here and do that, you know, blah, blah, blah. And she... And what I'm saying is she knew that I wasn't naughty because she'd leave her purse in there. She'd leave her bag in there. You know, at any point, you know, if I was naughty, I could have robbed her. I could have done what I wanted. You know what mean? But she knew in her head that no, he just needed to, you know, be separated and know that, you know, there is someone who's looking out for you, you know, and that is something that was very important in my childhood in middle school and high school because I had it for both. So. Would you say that that was one of the first role models you kind of had then? Most definitely. I would never disrespect her. That was the one teacher that, you know, I could be going through a crazy stage because I used to have a habit of like chucking chairs and tables at the teachers and stuff like that. But they'd have to clear the whole classroom though. know, that's how bad I used to get with fire extinguishers. I used to start squirting people with fire extinguishers. But with her, as soon as she'd come in the class, She would tell me, boom, boom, boom. And I'd go, yes, ma'am, let's go. That's because I knew that she appreciated what I had to offer. Yeah. It's really interesting because I suppose, like you said then, when you got obviously that result and you being kicked out of school then, but it's really interesting you being old and now reflecting back, what do you think was going on internally inside you to... for you to obviously you had the ADHD tendencies as well, which contributed to you behaving that way. But was there anything else going on internally that made you act up in those situations? I think I was a bit self-conscious about my height. Like it took me until like the end of year 10 to actually have my growth spurt. But so yeah, in middle school and high school I was very short, know, meeting my father instead of, you know, going to the hairdressers to cut the hair, he was going to cut it himself and then he'd fuck up and then I'd have a bald edge, know, as a child. things like that used to contribute, you know, ⁓ just not being as fashionable as other people, know. So I think all the small comments and stuff like that from the more posher kids or the bigger kids and everything like that used to get to me a lot. So that's where the aggression started. That was... ⁓ And then I had nowhere to, I had nowhere to excel this, aggression. So I had a love for sports. I've naturally been okay at most sports apart from rugby. ⁓ But yeah, most sports like football was pretty good at, know, mixed martial arts. weren't really about them, but like kung fu, boxing and everything like that. used to excel at, you know, going to army cadets. I used to love it. But it was never something that, ⁓ like my parents kept to. Because I come from a broken home in that aspect. My parents, they split up when I was about, I think, five or six. So obviously every weekend I was hopping in from each parent. they didn't have a bad relationship, but they didn't have a talkative relationship either, you know what mean? So there was never really any discussions between the two of them. It was just... Ted, you go to your dad's this weekend, you're back at your mom's and then I went to live with my dad and then vice versa. It's difficult because a lot of discussions I have with people when we talk about the impact of having the father figure at home and having the broken family, it's surprising the impact that that makes and has on people because the mother's trying to be the mom and dad but then when you're leaving that then you go to the father again and that time is precious. It's really, really difficult and it's It's a bit like, again, it is sort of like a trauma aspect because you are craving that attention. But then if you're not getting it as well, it allows you not to develop negative coping strategies then and how to deal and exert your feelings and stuff. And I think that's why, I think that's why when it comes to the sociable aspect of my friends in that, I think that's where I excelled at because obviously I didn't really have that too much at home. My dad was very strict, whereas my mother's quite lenient. So, yeah, well, I went and got that support at home. I looked for it elsewhere, obviously. So that's where, obviously, the friendship group started and then, you know, the mischief and stuff like that, that's where it all started and formed from. But with, you mentioned then, obviously, so how old was he when you got kicked out of school? Well, I've got kicked out three different schools. So, three different schools. Yeah. I, middle school, I ended, What was it? A year before you went up to high school, I got kicked out of the first middle school. And then I went to the second middle school and then I went to high school. I got kicked out of high school in the middle of year nine. So that would be the first year of high school. And then, then I went to another school there where I had to bike to school and I was only there for like two weeks because I ended up hitting a head teacher and he expelled me straight away. So, and then I went to another like kind of more of like a naughty kid school, it wasn't really a school it was more of a... it was called the Old Warren so erm... it was yeah it was just where naughty kids went to do a bit of learning if you get what I mean and er... yeah we call them er... PBUs or personal behaviour units back here yeah so I there for a bit but because there were so many naughty kids there and obviously I was... I wanted to learn, I just couldn't in certain environments, so I just thought this was useless, you know what mean? I'm not going to this. And so I stopped going to that. And it was Miss Starcy yet again that she allowed me to come back and sit my exams. And then she managed to get me some work experience at an engineering garage. So while people are at school in year 11, I was just doing work experience in a garage, frankly to her, you know, so. Well, that's, that's again, it just shows the importance of having a role model in other aspects in your life. Because once you've got that, at least you've got someone to guide you and lead you the way. You mentioned about obviously being into sports and fighting sports. And I know that's a really big passion of yours. So what, what did, what does or what did fighting and those sports give you at that time that you weren't having in other situations because you were excelling at them but obviously that was when... Yeah, like say for example the boxing, boxing ⁓ is not all about the actual fighting, it's more of the discipline, the routine, the confidence boost, you know, it was all these things that come into play, know, where... where I was angry or was able to get out but not in an angry way because you know the coach wouldn't allow you to get out in an angry way you know because say for an example if I'm having a day where I'm very angry and I go boxing at first for the first like half an hour or hour or whatever I'd be very aggressive you know what I mean and it'd make me how could I put it it'd make me like would do a little bit of sparring and it'd beat me up because I'd be going in aggressively if you get what I mean. you know, where I'd be making mistakes with just pure aggression, it was making me realize that if you do that, you're going to get slapped around your head. You know what mean? So like it was it was one of them type of things that it made me think that, look, you can't fight an aggression. If you fight with aggression, you're going to lose, you know what? And you need to fight calm mind. So it made me realize I have to have to turn that down and switch off and. you know, go a different way about it. I think that's one of the things I really appreciate because, like I say, at that point, I didn't know how to deal with it. I had no idea how to deal with my aggression. I was at the point where I was calm, calm, calm, calm, boiling point, boom, it's off, you know, and I was always like that as a kid. Say for an example, when I'd been jumped as a kid, as a teenager, I'd just run home and go get a knife and start chasing people down the street. That's what I used to be like as a teenager. Right, you may have just beat me up, but I'm now going to go get my get back, if you get what I mean. And so I did not know how to deal with it at all. So I was a loose cannon. was just a kettle ready to pop. know what mean? Yeah. And I think that's an all too familiar thing that like I live back in the valleys. So I live in the valleys. It's a massive lot of There's a lot of deprivation back here. A lot of people get caught in those kind of violent traps. I think a lot of it comes down to support. And it's just interesting hearing your story because even though you had support of your teacher, but then with the broken home as well, the question I'll ask you, do you think that, how could I put this? Do you think that it could have been different? Like your path could have been different if you had the Yes, most definitely. Even now, I don't like to hold any resentment because I try my best not to. I know full well deep down that if I would have had someone who would have took me to boxing every week and stayed committed to taking me to boxing every week, I could have took it really far. I know that. People around me know that. You know, even to this day, I still live in the same town. You know, people, they know of me, not just for the bad reasons, but they know of me for the good reasons as well, you know what I mean? So, a lot of people tend to leave me alone because they know if that makes sense, you know what I mean? They know I might be going through some trouble or whatever, but I'm ready to rock down if need be, if you get what I mean. So. Yeah, no, I understand that. It's it's amazing to hear you reflect back on it to say, that could have happened. But it's also important to realize that you've said, okay, that's not gonna hold me back anymore. But obviously it did for a while because it's that kind of, like even when I play band, when I play band for wheels and stuff, I still, for a long period of my life after I finished, was like, I could have gone farther. And it held me back for so long until I went, well, look, But that was then, this is now, so let's just focus on now instead of worrying about what happened back then. Yeah, I was very angry for a good while, you know, at my parents, mainly at my dad, but yeah, I was very angry for a good while about it because I just sat there and thought, you know, that could have been my thing, you know, that could have been something that I could have really achieved at, you know, so for me not to do that, I'm just blessed that I have three boys, so. Obviously, I hope, well, I know anyways, but my youngest, wants to be just like me. like, it's nice to know that, you know, he's ready to do that stuff. he's eight years old now, so he's ready and game for, so that's why I'm a bit like, you know, lightened up about the whole situation of the Urnau because at least I can, I've got my heart and soul and my love for the sport. It doesn't have to be boxing, can be whatever he wants but I know I've got somewhere to put it now. I know you There's somewhere to put it so that's a good thing for me. So obviously we've gone through the school environment then you've been taken out of school, you're doing the work experience but I know then that when that consistency started changing things started shifting towards like drinking, drugs and the wrong crowd so do you want to talk more about that? Yeah, yeah, so it started just like how any other teenage kid starts, you know, you're at the park with all your mates, you know, you've got the music on, you go and halfs on a crate of beer, you know, you're getting your 10 cigs, go and halfs on it, you know, just all that stuff, you know, one kid shows up with a bag of weed, you know, it's, that's how it starts, just like anyone, it wasn't malicious, that weren't like always groomed or anything like that, was just the typical, you know, Your parents were fine with you being out, you know, as long as you were in before the lights went out, you know, or you're not in too late. We just, just all sat and had a laugh and, and then you realize, you know, you've got your group of friends in this park and then there's another park somewhere else with another group of friends and then they start colliding every once in a while, you know, and then all of a sudden, you know, someone who's got a problem with you, you've seen him walk home so you and your pals are like, let's go have a word with him and then that turns into a little scrap and so on and so forth and it kind of, I wouldn't say escalated quick but like I say, where I live is governed by two estates so obviously one estate thinks they're better than the other estate, you know so There was already that rivalry there. So we were having postcode wars before there was actually postcode wars, know, so it was one of them type of environments. It never used to happen. It didn't used to happen all the time, but there was things, say, for an example, like Halloween on Halloween, there used to be a hundred of us that would meet up at a pub and would go egging and would demolish whole streets. get to the point where we'd run out of eggs and would be trying to topple cars and stuff like that. And the police can do nothing about it because there were so many of us. So they would just just trail us until it got to a certain point in the night and the less known ones would go home and then that's when the police would write with sending the main ones, we're now going to grab these all up, you know what I mean? You know, them situations started to happen where I was getting brought home by the police because of something stupid or something had happened at one of the youth clubs that would go to, you So that's how it kind of, that's how it started really. Just normal, normal stuff that kids go through. And then it started to happen every single week. And then obviously everyone come out of school and it become house parties. you know that's when the house party started and then that's when obviously other drugs start to take its place you know it weren't just cannabis or alcohol it started to be like coke or methamphetamines or ketamine weren't really a thing back then but you know it'd be them type of things that would be happening and then something silly would happen to one of the kids on the way home or whatever or they'd pass out or they'd have a or they'd get beaten up or there was a lot of that stuff that started happening. So, yeah. Do you think then that it, I think looking at that, obviously when you come out and you, I'm trying to go always reflecting back on those role models as well. Do you find that being part of that network, even though there was all of these things going on, a bit like a kind of like post-code wars or gang war, pharaohs and like that, it's not nothing that extreme. But do you find that was that? you acting out in a way that it was your way of coping or was it your part of being part of something and feeling accepted for who you were? I think it was a bit of both, yeah. think I was always coping with stuff. Like I say, when you have ADHD, you know, I don't want to toot my own horn here, but, you know, I'm quite intelligent, but so I'm quite aware of my surroundings and stuff like that. You know, I'm not, you know, I realise. quite early on that a lot of the stuff I was doing I shouldn't be doing, know, I wasn't, I wasn't one of them people who just, you know, done it and didn't care. I always cared, you know what mean? So, but yeah, then I was a part of something, you know, my best pal was one of the main people around this area, you know, he was the guy to go to, he was the tough nut, you know what I mean? you know, ⁓ our group was you know, we were the main people, if you get what I mean. So that comes with, I say a reputation, but that comes with a bit of stigma, know what I mean? A bit of oomph, a bit of, you know, I can walk around and do what I want, you know what mean? Like credibility then? So yeah, I think we all attached ourselves to it. And because of the group that I hanged around with, we stayed together for quite a while. That yeah, we were, we were all brothers, we were all family to each other, you know what I mean? once that started fizzling out, I suppose that's when the trouble started mainly, really. Yeah, when the group of the friendship broke down. Some people went off to work and do jobs and everything like that. Some of us went off to prison. Some of us become drug addicts, know? everything just started fizzling out, everyone started going their own ways a little bit, know, some people got a birth and then she got pregnant and you know, you know how that goes, we're your first girlfriend and stuff like that, they kind of like take you away from your mates, don't they? know, so there was all sorts going on, there was also all sorts of reasons why people were leaving, you know what I mean? And I think that affected some of us more than others, you know, so. Yeah, you mentioned about, you said about people going to prison, you mentioned about your your best mate going to prison, 17, but what did that do for you then at that time? so, obviously, most of my family on my dad's side, they've all been in and out of prison multiple times through just being naughty little fuckers, thieving, know, fights, antisocial behaviour, all that type of stuff. So, and then my best friend, yeah, he, he, he put someone in a coma with a baseball bat. So, yeah, he had 10 years and he'd done about four and a half, five years. So within that time, obviously, I'd lost my best pal with each other daily. I mean, like every single day, you you couldn't see one without the other type thing, you know. So with that gone, at first, a lot of people obviously turned to me as in, you know, it's time to bad mouth my friend and let's get him, you know, so. There was a few fights that had to happen, there was a few people that, you know, when me and my pal were together they wouldn't say anything, but now I'm on my own. You know, they had a lot of stuff to say now, you know what I mean? Especially with me being the smaller one out of the two of us, they thought they could. So there was a few situations where I had to deal with things that weren't my fault, it had nothing to do with me, but I had to deal with them and it was what it was. I tried to go back to boxing at that point, but at that point I had started smoking weed quite heavily. And then that's when I got with the first baby mother. Yeah, I'm just glad that was going to be the next question about meeting your first son's mum. And I just wanted to ask, I know that that relationship was, and we'll get into that, you know you want to talk about it as well. But what was that like? Because sometimes when we get into relationships, We think it's all brilliant at the beginning and then obviously things start, after like a month or two we start realising, ⁓ actually what's happening with you. But I just wanted to talk about what it was like at the start for you. Yeah, at the start it was one of them things that I actually, she fell pregnant the first time we slept with each other. ⁓ I'm pretty convinced she knew what she was doing. She had told me, obviously it takes two to tango, I'm not... not taken away from that but she had told me that she was on the pill and stuff like that so I thought you know she's sensible about nothing to worry about type thing so it was literally for the first month it was just you know every other day or every couple of days you know we'd be out we'll go do something go around watch movies you know just just a typical you know first relationship of you don't know what you're doing But you know you're fond of that person, you know. I wouldn't say it was love because it weren't love. I think it was infatuation of my first proper girlfriend if that made sense. How old was you then, Marcus? Like I was, I think I was 19. So I'd had girlfriends, obviously I'd had plenty of girlfriends through high school and stuff. But your first love? But yeah, it was one of the things that like, I wouldn't say love, but it was the first committed relationship, you know. that, you know, kind of, you know, was going around to her house, we were actually spending time, quality time together. Instead of when I was younger, I had the girlfriends and stuff like that, but that was as a group. So, you know, it weren't just me and her on our own all the time, as a group of people that would go out and everything like that. yeah, I'd say the turning from a boy to a man started at that point, you know. So I think that was what I was trying to do. I was trying to become a man and try to prove to her, I guess, that I'm not just a little boy. I'm a young man trying to turn myself into a man. So I think that's where the commitment of me first started with. Okay, yeah, I think that's it's important to realize I'm with my wife we've got We got together in the January and then by February then she was pregnant and all my mates and she's older than me as well my wife she's 12 years older than me and a lot of my mates when I first started were like what you doing to me and she's way older than you and It just doesn't sound right. And I accelerated things very, very old fashioned. I had to get married with them. So within less than a year, I'd moved out of my hometown. I'd taken on two of her sons as well as a stepdad. And also took the house on and had a baby and got married. Luckily, I know, I know. So it was crazy, right? But luckily, that was literally 12 years ago. ⁓ and we're the best we've ever been but it is difficult when you when you bring a child into the world very very early on you want to make things happen because subconsciously for you as well you're coming from a broken home so you want to make sure you want to make it work and you are and was one of the main the main points and that's why I allowed a lot of what we're about to talk to happen so obviously I was with her through probably about I don't know a month when she got pregnant. We'd done the whole situation that you were just on about. We got flat together. ⁓ I realized obviously I'm going to be a father. And it wasn't until she started getting heavily pregnant did I then realize that she had another kid. And she had another kid that was taken off her by her mother for a special guardianship. And it turns out that her and her ex-partner were very violent towards each other. So she hadn't told me any of this. So obviously I was new to that. So at first, obviously, I thought I was the knight in shining armor and she was the victim to everything, you know, so that made me want to be a father even more, like, I'm going to take care of her, I'm going to take care of the baby, boom, boom, boom. And then I think once you see that vulnerable side of me. That's when the violence happened. I still to this day remember the first time she ever attacked me. That was outside her grandparents' house. All I can remember is her being heavily pregnant and just, you know, running towards me trying to, you know, slap me and punch me for... I'm not even sure what the reason was. ⁓ It would have been just something very petty. you know, a petty little argument that we had had, nothing major or anything like that. But yeah, that was the first time she ever attacked me. And I put it down to, well, she told me, but I put it down to hormones, you know, you know, maybe she's just very hormonal and she doesn't know how to control herself a little bit. But so, and that's what she had told me, you know, it's more hormones, blah, blah, blah. So, you know, that happened a couple of times. And then when my son was born, ⁓ I had to deliver my son in a flat. So, you know, she had to go on all fours and then, you know, had to get the towels and everything out and the ambulance were on their way, but they didn't know what the road and how to get up the street and everything like that. So, you know, the baby's head was crowned you know, it one of them. I had two of my mates that was sitting in the kitchen, you know. just laughing their heads off, you know, just because we had been smoking some weed outside, you know, so they were sitting there giggling. And yeah, it me in the front room with that's quite funny, actually, because we had about a big 50 inch television. And so, you know, got her on the floor, you know, legs open, water and blood spurt and out and think like that, baby's head crowning. And guess what was on the TV? Mrs Brown Boys. ⁓ no way! Yeah, so we had that on the TV, so like it's... And then my mates were like kind of like poking their head through like, can we do anything to help? And I'm just like, no, I don't even know what I'm doing myself, you know what I mean? So, But thankfully, thankfully the ambulance managed to get up the stairs just as the shoulders were then coming out. you know, because they had to like flip him upside down because he was out the wrong way or whatever. So I don't know how I would have dealt with that, but we managed to deal with it. and we had to stay in hospital for a little bit because she had sh** and pox at that point so we had to make sure obviously the baby was fine blah blah blah and then yeah when we come home obviously she got back to normal and then that's when the real violence started happening you know there's plenty of times where she used to lock me in flats she used to pull my hair i've got loads of like tiny little scars just from like claw marks and stuff like that ⁓ I've had like roll and pins whacked over my head. You know, them big glass ashtrays? Yeah. Had one of them trotted over my head. ⁓ Loads of things, loads of things. obviously, I'd never like I got to the point where I used to have to bear hug her to stop her from clawing my face up and everything like that. But, you know, it got to the point where neighbors were like in the letterbox, like I've rang the police. You need to stop this, rah rah rah. The police would always come. ⁓ They'd never arrest her. I never really tried to get her arrested. I just wanted to get out that situation at that point, you know. ⁓ So, the police never really done their job. They never used to write the stuff down. They used to, you know, just come see, okay, we'll take you to your mother's or something like that if you want, blah, blah, blah. So, she was caught actually one time. She was upstairs in her bed. This is one of times when she had got all my stuff and chucked all my stuff out of the window. So I had all my clothes all out on the street. And the police officer come up the stairs and she was sitting there clawing her neck up, trying to put marks on her neck and everything like that. even then, the police didn't really do anything. They just offered me a lift home. They could see all the blood scratches and everything like that all over my face. They just, they took it for like tip for tact, you know, like, you know, I was just an argument, you know, with a bit of violence or whatever, you know, so. It's a, it's a real big thing at the moment because there's a bit of, well, there is, it's like double standards because I think what's happening now within this transition period where men are now showing their vulnerability. They're showing that this happened to me and I'm okay to talk about it. Whereas before people didn't talk about it. And then the men would heavily. And again, there are some very abusive men out there. My auntie was in an incredibly abusive relationship as well. But there are also incredibly abusive women like in your situation. And again, it's difficult to ignore really the fact that when a man does something, you're automatically criminalized for what has happened. When a woman does it, it's not met with the same consequences. But it's not just the physical. I know we'll talk about that as well. It's not just the emotional. She never really hurt me, hurt me. Obviously, obviously the stuff hurt, know, to get what I mean. But yeah, it was the mental stuff. I can remember like when she had chucked all my stuff out there at the bedroom windows and stuff like that. I can remember just sitting on the stairs, just crying with my eyes out like, what have I done? You know what mean? Why am I in this situation for, you know? it really affected me. And then just like you say, from the other point as well, where there are very abusive men, and then there's me, you know, just doing all this to me, and I won't even try to back, you know what I mean? Because it's why I didn't mean not to, you know what I mean? you know, that's why it hurts me so much when people talk about men abusing them. And I'm just like, look, if I could take what I took and I didn't react. you know what mean? Then these must be some devils doing what they're doing to females, you know? They're not good people, they must be devils, because if I can take and do what I've done, and all I've ever done is kind of like just bear hug her and like hug her tight, you know, like stop, stop, please stop, you know? Then, you know, being on the other foot, I just think they're scumbags, absolute scumbags. But like I say, because she portrayed afterwards, the reason It got to about my little boy was 14 months and my partner ended up attacking me in front of a couple of my friends. And it was at that point that I was very close to hit and it was at that point and that point in time I knew that I had to get out of relationship because there was no more taking these hits. I was taking these hits every single week. And like I said, it wasn't just a physical, it was then meant It was the mental stuff, was the oh I'm sorrys afterwards, was the oh let's be a family, no everything's fine, I'm gonna do better, you know, I'm gonna go talk to some people, you know what I mean, me believing that, me wanting them to believe that, you know, that was all them things, the false hope, you know, you know turns out that she was cheating on me as well at certain points and I feel, why not just leave the relationship, if you were, you were that unhappy and you were attacking me and you didn't want... be with me and stuff like that and why not just leave? You we could have gone about this very ably. You know, you could have had your money or could have had my boy on the weekends and everything like that. I could have been helping out with whatever you needed. But unfortunately, she was a very, very spiteful girl, you know. It's because she wanted to be spiteful. She wanted to be evil, you know. And control plays a massive part in it. Yeah, she wanted to control me as much as possible. Like I can remember when I was at boxing, so one of times she had attacked me, I was like, no, I need to get out of the house, I need to think. So I went to boxing and went to my boxing. So I'm sitting there doing my press ups and warming up and everything like that. And her and her mum come storming into the boxing gym, all my clothes bagged in see-through bags, she just lugged them all on the floor. and started mouthing off going this that and the other, proper just trying to embarrass me as much as possible. And it was my coach that, know, scolded her on that day because, you know, he told her don't ever come in this gym thinking you can do this to this young man, you know what I mean? Regardless of whatever lies you're spouting right now, he's in this gym trying to take out his aggression in a good manner, you know what I mean? You know, and I think that was her mum realised at that point that, on a minute, I don't think Marcus is as bad as, you know, the... daughter is making out to be you know what I mean so you know that is when that was when her mum started taking a step back as well realizing that she hasn't changed at all so and because she was the mother was happy having her first child because they didn't have any kids and she was a lesbian so she didn't have she didn't have any other kids so yeah so she was happy obviously she wanted a son she didn't have any sons you know what I mean so once she she got that through the special guardianship. She was ready to just hop off, you know. And so she didn't help the situation at all. There was no parent telling her, you know, you're doing wrong, blah, blah, blah. And she used to live with her grandparents. So they were a bit older and a bit numb to the whole situation and what was happening, you know what mean? yeah, once I left her, my son was about 14 months, that was when on every single social, I was hitting her, I was hitting my son, I was being abusive, you know, I was a drug addict, was an alcoholic, I was this, I was that. Any possible thing that you could say to, you know, put someone at a point of being disgraceful or whatever, she had said it, you know. She'd tell whatever lies she could to anyone who wanted to hear, you know, and yeah, made me, obviously it made me feel really, really bad, you know. I've been quite a nice guy about all this. I've tried to do all I possibly could and now I've finally got out of the relationship. You would think that things would start to get better, wouldn't you? But no, that's when, like I say, when all the lies happen and then people start to look at me differently and that's when I decided to go to court, to the family courts. And this is where, obviously, the depression starts to seep in because the family courts are not what you think they are. So I would get to the point where my first case, ⁓ she would get every single thing, every single court hearing, she'd get it adjourned for some reason. There weren't a certain letter that's been signed off. Her kid was, ⁓ my boy was ill. She didn't have transport to get to wherever we needed to go to. So there was a lot of adjourned hearings where she could just get away with stuff. So I'd have to wait another four weeks for another court hearing. So that was even more time that I was spending away from my son. So by the time I got to the point where the court would actually allow me to see my son, I now had to see him in a supervised contact because he was a baby and I had spent so much time away from him. So I was having to go to a supervised contact place and watch people watching me on how to be a father, you know, and... That really hurt me. Our social worker that was involved with us, because we had to have a social worker involved with us from the get-go because of her past relationship. And the social worker was younger than me and she didn't even have any kids. So how does that work out? She's reading from a book telling me how to be a parent when she's not even a parent herself. Yeah, just think there's an awful lot that's going on at the moment. I tried to stay... sitting in the middle of a role, there comes a moment where it's embarrassing really for the law system basically to try and justify their actions based off the fact of whether you've got wasps between your legs. And that's ⁓ it in a nutshell really. If you're a man, it looks, I bet it's incredible to look at the statistics on how a man is treated during the court system to what a woman is treated like at moment. and during that process you had left obviously and the baby's still there, right? Just why you like this as well now. Knowing that was her past, did the baby stay with mum? Yes, yeah. She had a criminal record, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, because at that point you could only get legal aid through domestic violence. I haven't been violent towards her. So how did she get the legal aid? I think that she lied to her solicitors and her solicitors managed to twist her. because I was young and naive and didn't really know much about the court system, I didn't challenge her. So I was a young lad then having to find money, and we'll go into that in a second, having to find money here, there, and everywhere to pay for court fees, for transport, for... things for the kids, know, for his birthdays, get Christmas presents to show that I was actively trying to do stuff. same thing with the Cathcass. Cathcass officer, she managed to get an injunction out against me. I didn't even know what an injunction was. So I went to court for it. And they were saying that, the Cathcass officer was saying to me, why don't you just take an undertaking. to say that you have no intention of going to her house or blah blah blah and I was like yeah that's fine I have no intention of going to her house when really I should have challenged that whole thing because that means that that injunction still stood so that means that I can now not go to her house or anything like that even though I hadn't said that I was guilty of anything I took an undertaking to say that I have no intention of going there but then the injunction still stands So me being unaware of that, she got that renewed every single year. Just through nothing. know what I mean? like I say, when we weren't in court and she was getting all these adjourned hearings, I couldn't go nowhere near her. So I had to spend that time away from her. She used to walk past me with my son. Our town is a very small town. So she would be with her new boyfriends walking past me, smiling and giggling, having her little words or whatever. And there was nothing I could do about it. I couldn't stop her. I couldn't see how my son was, you know, because she'd just ring the police. And then I'd get in trouble again. And there was many times like that, you know, she had lied. I can remember one time we were walking through town and ⁓ she was come back. There was a point where we had to cross paths, you know, and like I could, my son was right in front of me. couldn't. not say hello to him you know what I mean he was then a two at this point so you know he knew who I was I'd seen him at the contact centre and everything like that but um so he knew who I was he'd seen me he was like ah dad you know what I mean and um then obviously I walked over to say hello to him and that she just ran straight into me with a buggy and then within half an hour I got home after I'd been into town and I walked home within half an hour of me being home the police were at my door to arrest me to say that I broke her fingers It's insane. is. this is to those who are listening to this now, right? This is a massive topic in regards of there are thousands of men going through exactly the same process of what you're going through at the moment. And there is a there's a misjustice to how men are being treated. I always this podcast isn't just for men, it's for women as well. But you've got if you're interested in looking at the statistics. go and have a look at them because it is worrying. It is very, very worrying. think now, only now, things are starting to change slightly because the statistics are there. People can see it. They're putting one and one together and going, well, actually, your partner at the time, was a child taken off her, was abusive, and all these are in records, why can't that child then, right? and you are, and apparently you are such a monster as well, why don't they just take the child and put him into care? But they don't, they're happy keeping it in that situation. So you can't tar one person more with the same brush. It's gotta be equal based. But I can't imagine how that made you feel not being able to see, with my three boys, I see them every single day. But knowing that you haven't done anything wrong and you're being portrayed to be this monster. is just, it's disgusting. And even if, and even if, I'm not saying with you at all, because what you're saying is 100 % true, but even if there are situations where it is dual purposes, A child should never be brought into your mess as a couple either. Because again, that's gonna set, and in subconscious of you, you will start to go in, well, I'm from a broken home, so that means now that child is gonna end up like, what I'm like and it's going to continue going forward. it's horrible mentally. Yeah, it very much affected me. Even it even got to the point where I'd how can I put it? So I'd finally I'd finally win my court case, you know, and this is a very valid point as well. Yeah. So when I was in court, yeah, I had to defend myself against all these accusations that were untrue. There was no proven record of any of them. You know, you know, there was There was nothing to be said that I was this monster. But if I had anything that I wanted to say against her, it had to be a separate court case because they only wanted to deal with the access of the child. So how does that work out? That she could say whatever she wanted about me in this court here, and that was meant to be about the access of the child. But if I wanted to then go and say, she's done this, she's done that, it had to be a complete separate court case. double standards. You know that makes it makes no sense does it you know if it was just about the access then why is she sitting there saying I've done this done this done this you know when nothing was ever proven like even to this day I've still got clean criminal record you know and From what I've been through it's very hard to keep it like that you know but you know it's one of them things that even even when I come out of court and I start seeing him again and Should try trap me should you know, pretending things were alright, she'd try get me the flat, get me in the house, you know, you know, have a conversation with me for 5-10 minutes, you know, try start off an argument, you know, because I was in her house at that point. So then she could start attacking me again and this was the hardest part through a lot of the abuse. She used to attack me while holding him in her arms. So, you know, if you can imagine as, not even just as a young man, but as a young woman or whatever, If you can imagine someone attacking you while their baby, while your baby is in their arms, you know, what do you do in that situation? You know, I can't, I can't take her off it. I can't take him off her because she should chase me down the street and start attacking me down the street. know, it's using as a shield then isn't it? Yeah. So all I could do in that situation is leave and hopefully she wouldn't do what she'd say. Cause she'll tell me like she's going to kill herself and stuff like that if I leave and stuff like that, you know, but it got to the point where I had to just get out of the situation. or if not, one of us would have died, you know what mean? But then I had to get out of the situation and hope that she didn't mean what she said. Because now there's an unstable woman with my child, you know what Yeah. The problem with it all as well, again, we talk, again, this is a mental health podcast and we talk about it. It's the effect, and for anyone who's listening, when you go through that amount of trauma mentally of that, what if this is going to happen? What if that happens? I'm worried for my child's safety. I'm not seeing my child, I'm being treated as being this, seen as this monster and I'm not. The impact that that has on your mental health must be astronomical. It was, it was because like I won't go too far forward but this girl has, she has four kids by four different baby dads so every single relationship has ended up the same. know, even to this day, even to this day I don't really get on with what she does in her life, I don't have any. anything you will look but I know through certain people and she's going through the same shit with her current boyfriend now. Yeah, it's not it's not fair. It's not fair to the children being brought up in that scenario. And when we talk about generational trauma, which is a massive thing at the moment, those children are all going to be learning them coping strategies or coming from that broken home. Yeah. All because one person cannot control her emotions and then displays it in a way that can hurt people and it's really, really, really bad. I know something before we move on to the next part is that in order to survive, and I think this is important, when you went through that court process as well, it was really, really hard for you to survive and you wanted to pay for things. So you started selling drugs and all that as well then, Yes. Yeah. So obviously, if you can imagine the stress that come with that, I was having to pay with court fees, knowing that if I ever got I'll never see my kid again, you know, so, um, oh yeah, I was having to run around, um, sell, you know, selling all sorts of different types of drugs, um, you know, going into shady accommodations, going into shady places, um, you know, seeing fiends folded in their kitchen and stuff like that, just, you know, adults passed out on the sofa, you know, um, kids just... in like nappies with just rashes all over their body and their face. you know, like I say, like one experience that I told you that was the kind of fun and experiences I walked into some house and, you know, the mother was looking to go get some money from somewhere. And, you know, the baby was just sitting on the countertop with a dirty nappy that hadn't been changed in hours, you know, had rashes all over his face. You know, just crawling all over the worktop and I'm like, I'm panicking, like jolting myself and shit, he's gonna fall in a minute, he's gonna fall in a minute. You do I grab the baby, you know what I mean, kind of thing. Do I have a word with this woman, I, you know what I mean? But because obviously I had my reasons for what I was doing, I was kind of, I was not blinded by it all, because I could see it all happening, but I had to just let it go. But it affected me mentally, know, it affected me so bad that got to the point where I was like, I can't do this. I'm not this type of person, you know, I can't be around these characters, you know, these junkies, even though obviously they're there for, they're junkies for a reason as well. Don't get me wrong. I don't sit there and look at them as despicable people, you know what I mean? But some of them are though, you know. ⁓ No, but that must have been incredibly... Difficult being in that situation because it was you know there's there's been times where I've I've gone into I've gone into flats and houses and obviously these people didn't want to pay for no drugs So you know there's been times where I've had knives pulled on me You know I've had big guys that are kind of like you didn't leave in this house mate until you give me what you got you know what I mean and I've been like oh you know what do I do here you know what I mean I'm in a corner in some kitchen, there's no way out, I can't get through no windows or, you know, he's in front of the door, like what do I do, you know what I mean? So I've had to just give up, you know. And what people don't realize once you go down that circle then is that when you, they normally call it like a mule, so you are in that situation where you are selling drugs for someone else. Yes, yes. if you don't, then if they're taking the money off you, then you, obviously then you're in a situation where you owe them and then how are you going to pay for that money but ultimately the thing that's over weighing everything is the fact that you're doing it for your child but again so it's incredible to you that because of yeah it's just been pushed into that scenario over and over and over again and again you are in poor survival mode Yeah, like I said, there's been times where, you know, I've walked home and these people knew, they knew who I was and what had on me. they weren't a coincidence of them robbing me. It was a planned robbery, you know what I mean? It was someone had told them. And sometimes I used to think it was the people I used to get the drugs off. You know, they wanted me to owe. They wanted to put me in debt because I was good at what I'd done. You know what I mean? I wasn't the type people that was flashy. I didn't tell anyone what I'd done. It was a secret. No one knew that I was a drug dealer apart from people who took drugs. You know what I mean? I was quick. know? knew when you used to ring me up, oh, can I have this? I need this. I don't want to be waiting. Oh, it's at your door within 10 minutes. You know what I mean? Oh, was the delivery service you needed. You know what I mean? Because I had a reason. I wasn't just doing it for a bit of money so I could go on holiday. I needed money for these court fees. You know what mean? I needed to be sharp. I needed to be awake at two o'clock, three o'clock in the morning. know, needed it as soon as he rang. Boom, two rings. What's up, bro? You know, that was, I treated it like a job. You know, it weren't just, you know, me doing it because I wanted credibility or, you know, or anything like that. That weren't the reason I was doing it for. You know what mean? So, You mentioned as well that, like, that period, as we've just said, You've obviously realised how dangerous this path that you were going down was. Definitely. And you also said that people were being sent after you. So what was that period like? Yeah, so obviously, there were certain times where obviously my ex-partner would get with a certain individual who's a bit more known on the streets or whatever. So where these lies would get told. You know what mean? They'd see me, they'd give me some shit. Sometimes they wouldn't really do much when they were on their own because they just weren't about it. You know what these animals are like? They never fight fair. They never fight with their fists. It's always weapon-based, that type of stuff. So there were certain times where I'd be walking or I'd be at somewhere or whatever. And I knew as soon as they come in the door, I knew what was on. You know, I knew what was about to happen. I'm like, ⁓ I'm now about to get tilled in, know what mean? Like, there was no stopping it. Like, if you look at my nose, my nose is completely broke. Never got reset, you know. Same thing with like my cheeks and stuff like that. Like, I've been jumped a few times. ⁓ all you can really do is try fight back until you're on the floor and then you just curl up into a ball and hopefully they don't just stomp on your head too many times, know. It's one of them type of scenarios but I always knew that even after it happened and I was walking home and I was, you know, battered and, you know, bloody nose and stuff like that and, you know, all scratches from falling on the floor and getting dragged around and stuff like that. I always had that end resolve in my mind that they couldn't do on their own. know, so once I see them when they're on their own, that's when I'm to get my get back. You know what mean? So that was the kind of thing that kept me going really is the fact that I knew, right, you got me as a group, but when I get you on your own, it's a different story. You know what I mean? So that kind of pride held me strong, you know, like I said, I was in survival mode, but yeah, pride kept me going. and just, you know, the confidence of, I know I can handle myself when I need to, but you know, it's just unfortunate. I was just getting jumped, you know what mean? So. That's an all too familiar thing, isn't it, at the moment where people are joining in in gangs and they don't fight fair and fair. Violence is never really an option, but it's, but again, when what people need to realize is that we're listening to this now. We don't understand the world that you're in. and you're surrounded in, it's a total different world to a lot of people. An alien world that they don't understand, but what you've got to understand from my perspective is it's desperation. Because you are, yes, you're in survival mode, but ultimately you're trying to clear your name, you're trying to see your little one as well. And all these things that people get caught up in normally, and a consequence of what they're actually trying to do. And obviously I you would look back and just, you're not trying to justify your actions of selling the drugs. You knew that that was wrong. But again, it was literally down to the fact of the most important fact in it all was to pay the court fees to see your children. And everything else was totally irrelevant to what you were trying to achieve. Yeah, cause you've got to understand, I worked at this point as well, but you've got to understand I've still got to live. You know what I mean? I then got with my current partner. So. I got with my current partner when my first born was about two and a half years old. And obviously, this is where obviously the depression comes in. Because, you know, I'm going through these court cases, I'm seeing my child, but I know that the system is against me. You know, I'm doing all this stuff that I'm having to survive, but I know it's no good. You know, I've got no support from no one. You know, I then meet my current partner. I think, right, I'm gonna stop all this now. I'm gonna try and live a nice young man. I'm just gonna go work as hard as I can. I'm gonna try to strive through this. And that's when my current partner got pregnant. things were going good. I was seeing my child. You know, my ex partner had been in contempt of court three times. So in my mind, she's in trouble if she carries on, but she weren't, you know what I mean? But yeah, cause she had done loads of things where she was meant to go. We were meant to go to these like separation, parent and meetings and stuff like that. She just wouldn't go. It was only a road away from where she lived and she just wouldn't go. You know what I mean? She'd make any excuse. But the problem is with a court system, with a family court system is most of the times, Apart from all the adjourned hearings and stuff like that, most of the time these judges were different judges. They were like old, just old people. You knew they were only looking at the first two pages of the sheets that they were given and just getting the formalities and that was it. They weren't really indulging into the actual court case. Even I could tell that, you know what mean? So, I'd run my court case, yet again, come out of court. Everything was going good. My current partner was pregnant. You know, I thought maybe this is a new lease of life. You know, maybe I'm now getting to the other side of the book, you know what mean? And it didn't really go that way. So. It was about a week and a half before the due date of my partner. My partner realized something was off. She hadn't felt the baby kicking in like day or two. It was at the stage where you could see everything, the foot, the arm, whenever the baby wanted to move. You could see it within the belly. So we went to the hospital and yeah, that's when my world crashed. ⁓ It was the heart monitor and there was no heartbeat. So obviously we had just gone up there thinking it was just a routine, you know, just make sure everything was good. And then that's when the lady nurse come to us and said, unfortunately there's not heartbeat here anymore. obviously that destroyed me. ⁓ There was a chapel within the hospital that we live in. I went to that chapel. I was so angry I demolished the whole place. I was chucking things left, right and centre. There was this lady and this man that managed to calm me down. I was crying on a level that you couldn't even understand. was crying. was... You know when you watch them movies and people scream but they're crying. That was from your soul type thing. That was the type of stuff that was coming out of me. It was soul destroying, you know. At that point, I thought the world hated me. I thought God hated me. Why would you do this to me? Why would you put me through all of this with my first porn and then I had to deal with this with my little girl? It was one of them things that... I know when we become parents we really look forward to this, but you've got to understand this was a new leaf for me. this was maybe everything could be set straight you know and so when she was pregnant I was around her all the time I was making sure I'd do this for her, I'd do that for her wanted to hold the baby at every aspect I could on the belly you know I'd fall asleep with my hand and my head on the belly it was a connection that I was looking for so much that obviously when it wasn't there it killed me and then Not only that, partner had to take some tablets that would induce the labour. So we had to go home for three days to wait to get induced to labour, knowing that she weren't with us. You know what I mean? So we were like zombies, you know, just in the house. We didn't know what to do. We didn't know how to talk to each other. We didn't know how to react. You know, we just had to wait until the induced labour started to happen. Then even when we were at the hospital, my partner had to go through obviously the labour and you know, even when my daughter come out, obviously she was completely formed baby. ⁓ I couldn't even look at her for a good two hours, know, the nurses were imploring me to hold her and stuff like that. I couldn't even look because to me that was soul destroying, know, even now it's soul destroying. This is 11 years on and it still kills me to this day. People will say to me about going down to the grave and stuff like that. It's hard for me. She's in my heart. It's hard for me to get down there because obviously I'll go down there but not as much as you would think and it's purely because... I think about her daily. don't need to go to no fucking graveyard to think about my daughter. I think about her daily even now, you know what mean? I have visions of her, of what she would look like and stuff like that, you know what I mean? It's just stuff that it doesn't escape you, you know what I mean? There's no getting away from it. And I think that's where the depression really, really set in. And I tried to be strong for a while, you know, because obviously My partner was the one who had to go through the labour. She was the one who had to carry her and deliver her, you know what I mean? Well, that's why I was going to ask, was going to say, what is... Like that's... Like just hearing that as well, it makes me feel sick to think that you and your partner went through that and then obviously to go back home and have to, knowing that your little girl wasn't going to make it through it as well, but go into that process. But I think it's important to note as well, what was... And again, trying to handle this delicately for you, but how did being able to see your partner go through that and then we talk about the strong one mask, which is a big, big thing and we're trying to hold on. But what was that like for you as a man trying to support her whilst grieving yourself? Well, to be honest with you, she was the support at first. Like, you've got to understand even at that time. My evil ex was on Facebook saying karma had hit you laughing at me. You got to understand that. There was times that in them months, there was times that if I knew where she lived, she'd be dead. You know what I mean? Because of the stuff that she was saying. You know, so, you know, I was happy that I didn't drive at that point. I was happy that I didn't know where she lived at that point because, you know, that type of behavior. leads to consequences, regardless of whether you're a good person or a bad person, know, it's only so much someone can take, you know what I mean? And yeah, she would have been dead if I wouldn't have been able to get to her. obviously, thankfully, I think none of that obviously happened. But yeah, because obviously I was still going through that and I, you know, she then stopped me from seeing my oldest son at that point yet again. at spite. Like I said this girl was a horrible girl. my partner she was the strong one for the first few weeks you know what I mean. She was the one who handled it all you know even though she was the one that you know delivered the child and had to carry her and everything like that and had all them emotional ties and physical ties to her baby. She was the strong one. I was a wreck. Absolutely wreck. I wasn't at all my partner's dad fell ill with cancer is when I realized, ⁓ hang on a minute, I need to step up here. You know what I mean? Because not only has she lost her daughter, she's now about to lose her father because the cancer was very quick. know, so like he was, he found out about, well, weren't as quick as some, because obviously some people only have months or weeks, don't they? But he had about a year and a half, two years. And but his health was deteriorating really bad and I got along with him very well, you know what mean? He was a nice man, so... And that's when it wasn't long until my partner fell pregnant again. But you've got to understand it, to some people, obviously that would have been a blessing, but with what I had just gone through, at this point I didn't even think I could be a father, you know, with... with everything that happened with my first child and obviously with my little girl, I was at the point where I'm not good enough to be a father. Obviously God's telling me I'm not good enough to be a father. He's showing me this. So I was a nervous wreck throughout that whole pregnancy. think my partner got pregnant because obviously it's very common to be able to get pregnant after having a child. It's like when they're in... most I wouldn't say heat because that's what a dog term isn't It's like a menstrual cycle. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, she she she fell pregnant very quick and I was very worried you know I was I was I was a nervous wreck you know I mean I didn't think I could be a father but yeah that's when Oliver come about and ⁓ and then yet again she fell pregnant again you know and then that's when we had Charlie so you know I had my two boys and a year after each one. there would have been obviously my little girl and then, you know, that was, I think it was like three, four months. I think it was one of the first times that we actually connected again as a couple that she felt pregnant. And then, yeah, the same thing happened the next year. So I went through all of that and then had two children with, so all of this had happened within a space of like six years. So within six years, I had a child been getting beat up, having to go through court cases, lost a child, and then had two more children. So like throughout all that time, I was depressed, but I didn't really actually know what depression was. You know, it hadn't really hit me as much as, you know, I had fought. So I went until my boys were there and I started realizing I can't connect properly, you know. I can't do all the fun stuff that you want to do with your boys and that because I felt guilty. I felt guilty that my other child was missing out. I couldn't do the same things. I used to sit and think in my head like, what are you laughing for bro? You've got another kid out there that you're not even seeing. That's what my mind used to play tricks on me. Used to tell myself disgusting things. I couldn't enjoy a day because my mind would tell me otherwise. You they what are doing you scumbag? You know what I mean? You can't be enjoying your day. know what I mean? When you know that that woman's got your child. That's what my brain used to tell me. So I couldn't even connect with my boys because I felt guilty. You know, even though I was trying to do my best, but this system and unfortunately, you know, the horrible ex just made it impossible for us to get on. You got to understand as well that even as my boys got older, Throughout this time, I'm seeing my son, I'm not seeing him, I'm seeing him, I'm not seeing him. It was just literally as soon as she wanted to get jealous again, she'd stop you from seeing him. know, whenever she got a new boyfriend, she'd stop me from seeing him. You know, whenever I didn't give her the right amount of money that she wanted, she'd stop me from seeing him again. You know, so I'd either have to go through the court case again, or I'd have to wait a certain period of time until it calmed down a little bit, and then she'd let me see him again. You know what I mean? So it was very awful. And my boys went to the same school as each other. They don't even know each other. You know, that's how disgusting it was, you know, that, you know, they went through years of seeing each other, knowing that they were brothers, but they couldn't really speak to each other. You know what I mean? The thing is, it's when you when you're struggling with your mental health anyway, you've got all of these aces, adverse childhood experiences and trauma that you've been through and through it all as well. You've got to try and remain strong. That is just, there'd ask to come a point then where it all comes to a blow. And- It my mind. that's the only way I can say it is my heart was already destroyed, but my mind was about to get broke. You know, you know, and that's when, like I say, things started to get really bad. That's when the depression, real depression. Like this is a thing that most people don't get. You know, it's okay to feel down for a couple of weeks. It's okay to, you know, not know where you're going at certain points in your life. You know, that's very different from real depression. You know, real depression hits you differently. It's like, my mates would just be like, you know, some of my mates, they weren't really my friends, they, you know, they'd make a joke about or... They'd be like, oh, we're all going through issues or, oh, I've got this problem going on or they'd make up competition. And, you know, and I'm just sitting there like, you have no fucking idea. You know what mean? You literally have no idea. You know, I have no idea how many times I've nearly stepped out in front of a car just because today was the day. You know what I mean? You have no idea how many times I've sat in my room, swallowing tablet after tablet, hoping this would be the day. You know what I mean? Like how? abused myself because I used to self harm by not eating because that was the only thing I could control I Could control control and that did this took me a while to realize this but it was a controlling mechanism. So Where I was feeling all this pain in my heart and my mind If I didn't eat I start feeling pain elsewhere in my stomach, you know I mean I start feeling achy that'd be a different type of pain But it wouldn't be the pain that was in my heart or in my mind. So, you know for me that was good enough You know, mean so I wouldn't eat, I would just take drugs or prescription drugs and you know just... Yeah, it was a control mechanism I found out. It one thing in my life that I could control. I could control where the hunger pain would go and when it would stay. You know what I mean? What did... There's two important parts I want to try and talk about there is that your understanding, your true understanding of what depression, like true depression was for you and what did... typical day in your life look like when you're at your lowest then? So I'm at lowest. I'd wake up and I'd already be in a bad mood from the moment I woke up. From the moment I woke up it was disgust. was that you weren't going to achieve anything that day. was hurry up and get your drugs mate. know what I mean? It was know cannabis. From the moment I woke up there was cannabis clouded quite a lot of it. Like I say, I just, I don't even know how I got through the days to be honest with you. was anger, was resentment, was bitterness from the moment I woke up. There was no control in the day, whatever happened, happened. And then as the night got on, I wouldn't be able to sleep. So the only time I ever got to sleep is when I was so physically drained. that it was time to go to sleep if that made sense, you know what I mean? Because I was scared of the night time. know, throughout the day I could mask it in certain ways by going to do this, putting on a fake smile, being there for someone, helping friends out with their problems, their trivial little matters, you know what I mean? In reality, you know... I'm the one who's dying inside, you know what mean? You just want me to come help you change your room around because you're too lazy to do it yourself, you know what I mean? So I'd fixate on them things. I'd help everyone else out. I'd be the joker. I'd be the one who'd crack jokes and I'd be the one who would do silly stuff because I didn't care, you know what I mean? It didn't bother me. So, yeah, getting through the day was... The daytime weren't too bad because obviously I could cloud myself with things. It was the nighttime. That was the worst. I was petrified of the nighttime. You know, I was so scared of sitting in that room on my own because that's when the thoughts creep in. That's when you can no longer avoid it. You had avoided it all day, mate. I'm coming to get you now. You know, that's what it used to be like. It used to be like a little demon. Like you knew he was coming. I knew he was coming. And then I spent the nightmares crept in as well. Is that why you would use then like your alcohol, your coke, your cannabis and everything? Would you use all that then to escape and just get through the day and then hopefully just send yourself into that kind of like oblivion where again sleep, but it didn't then to a degree because for me A lot of my nightmares of what happened in Thailand and stuff, even now after all the ⁓ work that I've done to try and understand my mental health, I'm on medication, I'm my Tazapine, so I have that five hours to reset, ⁓ which I've been on now for the last 18 years and everything. But yeah, again, those vivid nightmares and everything, you're not even having refuge then when you sleep in. No, no, I used to have two certain dreams that used to recur all the time. And I'll even tell you, one of them is where I used to hear a baby crying. And it used to be in a room and the door was open. And when obviously the baby was crying, so I'd start walking towards the door and then the door would slam shut. And then I'd be trying to open this door and I'd be trying and I'd be trying and I'd be trying and then I finally get it open. And it was just a cot in the middle of a dark room. and I'd just hear crying and crying and crying. So as I'd walk towards it, there'd be something, there'd be like this big hooded creature that would come out of the corner of the room. And then it would see me and then it would see the cot and it would start going towards the cot. But obviously I'm trying to go towards the cot as well. But unfortunately he used to win and I used to get pushed out of this room and then this door would just slam shut on me. and then I'd just hear a certain cry from a baby you don't want to hear, you know what mean? And then I'd wake up. So like, I used to have that same dream night after night after night after night. You know, that's why I believe in God now, that's why I believe that there are demons in this world, you know what I mean? Because why would I have that same dream, you know, if there weren't something trying to corrupt my mind, you know what I mean? Like it was never different, it was the same thing every single time, but I could never win. Even though I know what was about to happen, I could never win. It would just like force me out, I'd just move away, then the door would shut, you know what I mean? It was the scariest shit I mean. Did you ever find that it got to a point, and imagine this is where the breaking point was, where it was so powerful that that feeling you were having over and over and over and you were so tired. that you would go to sleep hoping that you would never wake up again? Yes, yes. I'd gave up on the world. I'd gave up on everyone. I'd had a proper conversation with my mum and I told her that, look, I want to die. know, most people would be like, ⁓ what are you talking about? No, I was at that stage where I was having a proper conversation with my mum telling her that, look, there's no, you can't help me. You know, I'm beyond help. You know what I And she could see it. she could see that, you know, I was ready to go. I just didn't know how to do it. You know, I tried prescription drugs, I tried hurting myself, tried putting myself in very vulnerable and dangerous situations, but I don't know what happened, but I just survived them all. You know what I mean? It's just every single day I put myself in more danger, you know, ⁓ more predictable circumstance where, you know, I could have got... got seriously hurt and it's just I don't know how I survived them but you know it's just a heart punch you know what I mean so I was like that for a good while a good while and obviously you could you can imagine failing each day because in my eyes that's what I was doing I was failing I was failing at killing myself so even then I couldn't even kill myself you know what I mean so they even then even the voices in my head were like you're fucking stupid mate you can't even kill yourself you know what I mean that's what my brain used to tell me You're that much of a loser that you can't even kill yourself for. You know what mean? it just affected me even more, even more. With you having the two boys as well, and obviously you're the son as well, I'd imagine a lot of fathers, especially myself, can resonate with this, is the fact that guilt plays a massive factor. because you want to try and be that role model. You want to try and be that thing that you didn't have when you were younger. You want to try and prove other people wrong. And emotionally, because you are broken inside and the straw, I always say that with a mask that when people wear them, the strong one mask, the joker mask, the overachiever mask, a mask has absolutely no weight or no volume. So what it'll occasionally do is that it'll just remove yourself and it leaves you totally fucking bare. ⁓ But guilt plays a massive role because all those insecurities and the imposter syndrome can also ill attach yourself to those insecurities and make you feel even worse. So for you, that guilt that you must have been experiencing, not just the fact that you couldn't go through with taking your own life. But the fact that you felt that way, that your children wouldn't have that father figure, must have been an over driving concept in itself. Yeah, they used to see, this is one of the other things, they used to see me in states. They used to see me in certain states that no kid should see their father, you know what mean? Just the anger that would come out of me, you know what mean? It was probably at one point, it was probably at one point that my boys were probably scared of me. They probably had a bit of fear. unfortunate enough that they don't know, you know what I mean? But there are certain times where I've reacted in certain ways to my partner and stuff like that, you know, they probably thought, you know what I mean? You know, he's a bit of a dangerous man, you get what I mean? you know, and then obviously I'd have the guilt for that as well, you know what I mean? So, you know, there was no purpose. There was, you know, because that's one of the things that men thrive on as well. We have to have purpose in life. I have kids, but there was no purpose there. I didn't even feel like I could be a father to them. Like I say, it did. It affected me even worse. It affected my boys. They had to understand things about me that they shouldn't have had to understand at their age. My youngest boy, Charlie, he's... He's very switched on with me now, you know what mean? He's very aware of how I was and why I was the way I was and stuff like that because he's sinner and I've had to explain it to him and his mother's had to explain it to him, you know? like, how could he... He knows stuff about me that, you you tried to hide away from your kids that you never want your kids to see, you know what I mean? But they're sinner. They've sinned all of it, you know? I think that's not... I went back in 2018 where I was really, really ill and I'd bought my tablets and I think that's where I want to move into the next part which is the turning point for you. But when I decided I wanted my life, I bought all the medication, Christmas day out of all days, laid them all in there, popping five tablets, spitting them back out, popping five tablets, spitting them back out and didn't have the courage to go through with it. But my kids prior to that had seen me lock myself outside because I was pacing back and forth. I'd shit and pissed myself at the bottom of my stairs because I became doubly incontinent. And even though my boys, my youngest youngest would have only been four, so he didn't know, my middle son can kind of remember it, but my older son can. But They are all aware now that I have PTSD, I've had suicidal tendencies, ⁓ I suffer my anxiety every single day. But because I've shown that weakness, it's made them better individuals because they are more emotionally aware of themselves and the fact that it's okay to be upset. Whereas I think if I'd been really kind of stoic in mine, ⁓ I don't believe in crying, don't believe in being upset. I their emotional understanding of others and themselves wouldn't have been there and they probably would have struggled to hell of a lot more. Yes, yeah, definitely. And I think that was one of the turning points in my life is, because I tried to go on antidepressants and everything like that, they were just affecting me in weird ways. By that point, I was still smoking cannabis all the time, I weren't eating properly. I was taking over recreational drugs, going out partying, stuff like that. So I think the turning point for me is the fact that my ADHD and the way I am inclined is I like to educate myself. So throughout all that time, obviously, there was a lot of lonely nights. There was a lot of nights where I had nothing to do. So I'd educate myself on history, psychology. you know, biologically, ⁓ can't open my mouth properly, so some of these words I can't get out at the moment. No, that's fine. You know, I'd read and I'd learn as much as possible. So my curiosity for these things is the thing that saved me, to be honest with you, is like I learned about so many different famous figures and the way they were and the things that they had to go through and stuff like that. So although I didn't have anyone to talk to about these problems, I found solutions in other people's lives from learning from their lives, you know what I mean? So like that was probably one of the first saving graces I had is that I was so curious about the world and about different cultures and the way different people tackle different things that, you know, you spend enough time like searching for something, sooner or later you're going to find an answer, you know what mean? And it's up to you whether you want to take it on board or how you're going to depict it, you know, and how you're going to break it down and look at it. And I think that was the thing, you know, I started reading up about family court system and, you know, the laws of our country and everything like that. And I started realizing, hang on a minute, you know, they've done me dirty here. They've done me really bad, you know what mean? And then I started looking at, you know, father's rights and how we have no rights. know, it weren't until a few years ago that, you know, that now it's got to a point where a woman, if she refuses to allow a child to see their father and there's, know, things she can put in prison for. But even though that's a strong case now, even to this day, but that law only come about, I don't know, five years ago, four or five years ago. So... beforehand none of these laws were in place so some of the guilt started to come off me because I started realizing, on a minute, not all of this is my fault you know what I mean and the same thing with the way I was feeling I was feeling this way because I wasn't an abuser so of course I was feeling this way of course I was taking on this guilt because I'm not an abuser I'm not a narcissist you know what I mean so they're not things that would go over my head you know what I mean so I slowly started learning these things that You know, of course I'm going to feel guilty because that's the way I am. I'm a nice person. As much as the world has depicted me to be a bad monster or whatever, or certain people have, no, that's not my life. You know, I've always tried to be nice to people. I've always tried to be sociable. Like even when I was at school, you know, I weren't a dickhead to, I wasn't a bully to people. I was a dickhead to the dickheads. You know I mean? I was, you know. I used to bully the bullies, you know what mean? Once I realised that, you know, I had that about me, you know what mean? That's what I used to do to them. I didn't used to go pick on the poor kid. I didn't used to make fun of the guy who, you know, didn't have parents or blah, blah, blah. That's not who I was... My angle was towards. My angle was towards, you know, people who wanted to be about that life. That's where my angle was. So I started to slowly realise these things. It's, do you know, right? And listening to that, right, is so empowering because as people know it, I developed something called the forge method about how people can move through ⁓ from being through denial, acknowledgement, and accountability and acceptance. And your story resonates so much with me and others because you've gone through a point where you're in a bit of denial at the beginning in regards of your early life, what you're going through. Then you acknowledge the fact that things weren't quite right and you went through this period being lots of ups, lots of downs, lots of trauma as well, but again, wasn't doing anything about anything at all. However, what's interesting then is that in order for you to get to a point where there was a moment where you had to change your life or understand it or lose it completely, you've then gone, okay then, let's look at accountability. what part of this life am I accountable for? So you're accountable for the fact of you've been in a situation where you've got in an abusive relationship, you've looked at the education system, but then you've accepted the fact that that has happened. However, through that educating yourself, you're then able to go, well, actually, that I'm right. the way that they should be feeling. Yeah, like I see that this is the other thing was like I feel like ⁓ I have certain forms of PTSD as well because it's such a short pace and such a short span of time where I've had to go through all this trauma if you get what I mean. like I used to blame myself for like, ⁓ I could have dealt with this better or I could have gone a different way about this and everything like that. So obviously there was a lot of guilt and blame with all that as well. But I have to realise that no, you were probably dealing with PTSD mate. You were so traumatically torn that, you know, yes you could have gone a better way about it but in that circumstance there was no better way mate. You dealt with it the way you had to deal with it and you had to survive to get on with it. There was no right or wrong answer to some of the circumstances that I went through. There was just purely survival. That's all there was. That's how I got through the day. Yes, I could have done something a bit better or I could have stuck at this job a little bit more and maybe I would have sorted myself out. But no, in that time I was not well. You know what mean? There was no yes or no right or wrong answer. There was just survival. That's all there was. And you can blame yourself for all that as much as you like. But, you know, I got to a point in my life where I if I carry on looking in the past, I'm never going to get on with my future. I'm never going to achieve anything. I'm never going to be there for the kids. You know. There's not going to be no resolve to any of my issues. So that's why once I started to realize a little bit and started to get on with certain things and try to move on a little bit with, I don't know, just coming to terms with things. Like my oldest son now, he's in high school. He's 12 years old. She had stopped me from seeing him just before. just after Christmas, over money issues yet again. I just sat there and thought, like, right, I could argue this down. could get in her life and turn up on her doorstep or whatever. I could go through the court cases or whatever. But my son has just gone to high school. He's now making new friends. He's quite a short guy, he's going to have his growth spurt just like me. His mom's quite really short as well. he's got all these typical teenage boy problems to deal with. know what I mean? What do I do now? Do I try to force myself into his life? Or do I give him this year or so? Because it's only a year or so now that I... I've only got to wait until he's 13 before... If I wanted to go back to court, they will completely dust her away and be like, look, you know, Harrison, what do you want? You know what I mean? I can either, like I said, can either try and get myself into his life or I can just allow him to have this year, get used to high school, let him have his friends, let him just have a bit of normality. Cause you've got to understand is how much she used to be in these years. you know, telling him boom, boom, boom, this, that and the other, you know what I mean? you know, within his mind, he probably don't know what to think. He don't know what to do, you know. Obviously he's a little boy. He's going to love his mother, isn't he? You know what I mean? He's not going to want to go against his mother, but he's also getting to that age now where he's going to start to realize things. So do I want conflict in his mind? You know, do I want, you know, panic him so much? You know, what do I do? So I'm at that stage now where I'm like, right, what I'm going to do now is now that I'm good, I'm going to get the rest of my life sorted this year. I'm going to, you know, get everything else that I need to get sorted now. Like today I've just been putting up bunk beds and stuff like that. I've done it wrong as well. So I've now got to take them apart and put them up, put them up again. So, you know, I've just done some painting and everything like that. So I've got the garden and that to do. Obviously I'm at a stage where it's not too much I can do at the moment. So. I'm a work and process myself with what I've obviously recently gone through. yeah, I'm going spend this summer, you know, fixing everything, getting back to work, you know, and then, you know, next year is, it's time for not for me to point out because I don't want to, I don't want to get to that stage where I'm like, this is what your mum's done. You know what mean? It'll come to that. you know, when he comes in, whatever question he's got, can answer it, you know, and I'm not going to be bitter and resentful for it. You know, I'm not going to put blame elsewhere or whatever. can answer it confidently. You know what I mean? So that's the position I'm trying to put myself in now, you know, is, you know, I want to, I want to, I want to be there. I've got a new purpose in life. It looks like it took, it took some time. TikTok helped me, you know, having the lads to talk to every single night. while I was slowly coming off my addictions and everything like that, that really helped me. know, getting back, I always say to people as well, exercises are very important when you're dealing with addictions or mental health problems. a lot of people will just, you sit in a room long enough and you feed the negativity, that's what you're gonna be about. That's the only thing that's gonna be about in your life. You know, I don't care how much you weigh or... whatever even even if you can't if you feel embarrassed about going to the gym i had little press up boards and everything like that that i got first before i even stepped into a gym again you know because i was embarrassed about my weight and how much weight i dropped and everything like that and ⁓ so i started off at home even at even at home like when i was at my worst and everything like i could barely do five press ups you know well no i could barely do 10 press ups so i used to do five i'd do five press ups i'd sit down for minutes and then I tried to do five more. you know, I slowly, slowly, slowly, you know, I started to get a little bit better. Taking the dog for a walk. I didn't want to get out of house, I didn't want to see anyone, so I used have to force myself to go take the dog for a walk. You know, then I started appreciating the walks. You know, it's all in small steps. You can't expect yourself to get better, you know, just because you've said in your mind you want to get better today. It's not going to happen. you know, it's step by step you have to take it, small steps, you know, and I don't care what whatever it is you have to do, even if you can't fix your addiction at that moment, you know, move on to a hobby that you can do, you know, so even if you are smoking or you are still, you know, sniffing or drinking or whatever, find yourself one hour out of the day where you just go do something completely different to what you would normally do, you know, and just allow that to slowly progress. That's all you can do. I think it's really good now because we're moving into the latter parts of the podcast and I always try to look at where that person is now and how they can reflect back on their life. So when you reflect back now and everything, do you see someone now who was broken or do you see someone who was just trying to survive? I was broken. Yeah, there was no doubt about it. I was broken, but I also know that it was survival mode. You know, there's a lot of different avenues I could have gone. I could have gone to prison for a lot of things. know, I have been dead through my own fault. You know, so I have to take that all on board. You know, as much as I can look at my past and see disgust and see, you know, pain and all of that. I've also got to see survival. I've also got to see the strength to keep going. I kept going. And I think that's very important because most of the time when you look in the past, you're always looking at the negatives. That's what you're always looking at. But the past is the past for a reason. You managed to get to today. So there's got to be some positive in there somewhere. You you may not see it yourself, but you know, as much as I hate myself, it taught me how to search for things. It taught me how to educate myself. It taught me that not all friends are really your friends, not all family members are really your family members. You know, it taught me to let go. You know, it taught me to, you know, find purpose in life. It took me years. This is 11 years on and I'm now only at the stage where I feel like I can get on with my life and nothing can bother me anymore. It took some time. Not everyone can change their life within certain aspects. Certain people grow in different ways. Like they say, God gives... it's hard as work to stronger soldiers, you know? like, wherever people want to find faith in whatever way possible, I always believe finding a bit of faith is, it's not a bad thing, it can never hurt you. you know, if that's what you need at that point in time, then you go for it. But yeah, I believe now that truly I'm set on this earth to help people. My experiences have gave me the authority to help people. And ⁓ now all I have to do is just believe in myself so much that I can do the things that I say I can do and that will become reality. It's as simple as that. There's not a person on this earth can stop me from doing what I want to do now. And like some people will be like, ⁓ that's a bit... It's a bit egotistical, you know what mean? But no, no, no, no, no, no. You haven't survived what I've had to survive and I haven't survived what you've had to survive, you know what I mean? A lot of people are on different paths in life, you know, but even though my path is a little bit different and it's took me down some directions I didn't want to go in, I've now got back to that main highway and it's time to switch the gears up, you know, it's time to get going, you know, and that's what I do. It's incredible, it's in honest, it's to see what you've been through as a person and most of the even a small factor of what you've been through would destroy people, all right, would destroy them and they would never come back from it. But the way that you have like carried yourself through this podcast is as being incredible with the not just maturity, but the emotional. connection that you've done throughout that as well you've done it's been an incredible experience just to be in the presence to listen to how you Talk about your life as well and a lot of people will learn That I would hope anyway from this that you can go through some horrendous things and it's gonna be incredibly tough But it all comes down to the only person who can make that change in difference is you and if you Start with you, yeah. You've got to put those things in place and before we kind of finish up on the part, I want to ask like two questions to kind of summarize everything, okay? So the first question I want to ask is what you would say to someone who's listening now. So I want to imagine there's a man at the moment who feels that everything's against him. He's been through horrendous things, like he's losing control of himself and everything. But what would you want him to hear from you? I suppose that the main part of it is... You've got to understand no matter what you're going through, no matter what you're to yourself within your mind, no matter what other people are saying to you, you've got worth in this life, you know what I mean? There's a purpose for you in this life, I promise you that. I am 35 years old and it took me until I was 35 to actually find purpose in life. Some people would be like, You know, that's too much time spent or whatever, but you watch what I do within these next couple of years. I will do incredible things. You know what I mean? And you can do incredible things. And like I say, it starts with you. No one else is going to help you. And I'm not just saying, this is the day you need to get up and strive and be a man or anything like that. No, this is the day you need to start loving yourself. You know, this is the thing that I used to hate myself. I used to hate the person I was, know, the person everyone else thought I was, you know? And self-love is the main thing. Like, you can't expect to get over any of your problems if you don't even like yourself, you know? And so, like, you get what I mean? I know that sounds simple, like, oh, yeah, I'll just start loving myself. No, you need to tell yourself every day, I love you, man. We're gonna do this, you know? It's going to be hard, but we're going to get through today, You know, just look in the mirror and just say, look, I love you. You know what mean? That's how hard, but you'll realize when you get in the mirror and you say, you'll be like, oh, that sounds a bit weird. You know what I mean? What am I doing? You know what I mean? But it's important. It's very important. You know, nowadays, like I say, there's a thin line between confidence and arrogance. Yeah. and I'm sitting so far on the confidence side that you couldn't even tell what it gets into. That's what you need to get to and it'll come in steps. There's an analogy that obviously I like to use is think of it this way, in your mind there's you and there's the old man. The old man's the old grumpy cunt. He's the one who's despicable. He's the one who says dirty things to you. He's the one who's always negative. You carry on feeding him, he's going to get stronger bro. know what I mean? Stop feeding him. You know what I mean? Stop telling yourself in your mind, you know, these negative things, these negative things. Even if you have to write stuff down, just write a couple of positive things. I know it's hard, isn't it? How can you write a positive thing about yourself? You know what I mean? Like, I'm glad I've done well today and that I haven't killed myself. You know what I mean? It's stupid, but it's needed. You know what I mean? And if that's what's needed in your life at the moment, then so be it. Anyone that laughs at you and think that is a joke, cut them out of your life straight away. Love it. Honest. The insight as well. And I think the final thing I want to ask as well is sometimes your personal reflection back on you. And if you could go back now to your younger self, what kind of advice would you say to him to give him the ⁓ realization that things are going to be difficult, but you're going to get through it? I don't think there's anything you can tell yourself apart from strap on boy, we've got some shit to do, know what I mean? There's some things that are about to happen but we're gonna get through them. You because I don't think you can tell yourself anything other than that because you can, you like you sit and think, ⁓ maybe if I, right, if I could tell myself something positive or tell myself to go down a different avenue then it would be better. But it doesn't automatically assume that it's gonna be better, you know. If I tell myself to like stay away from that girl at that point in time, something worse could have happened. You know, if I didn't find that girl and got in that relationship at the start, you've got to remember at that point, was spiraling anyways. I could have gone to prison. You know what mean? I could have allowed my anger to get the best of me while I was in prison. You know, I could have stabbed someone. I could have got life in prison. You know what I mean? Because my anger was... you know, unchecked at that point, you know what I mean? So there could have been loads of different scenarios that could have happened. So me thinking that this is the worst scenario is a stupid way of thinking really, because there could have been plenty of alternatives. You know what mean? It could have been worse for me, you know, I could have got, could have sent myself down the wrong path and got groomed by people, you know, there's all sorts of things that could have happened. I put myself in some of them situations. So As much as, like, same thing, like, obviously I don't want to step onto what's happened now, but the situation that's happened to me now, you know what I mean, is life's changing enough. And as much as I could look at the bad of it, it's now made me realize that, no, like, there's a lot of things that I need to hurry up and get done in my life because I want to change certain things, you know what mean? So it is what it is. But I think, yeah, the main point is... You're going to go through the situation. It's happened. There's no getting away from it. There's no run away from it at all. It's going to happen. And you just need to realize that look, we're here on this earth to experience things. Some things are going to be worse than others. Some people get really good experience in life. Some people have to deal with certain things. You know what mean? And that doesn't automatically mean that, you know, you're one to be hated. or anything like that, you know, it doesn't mean that God doesn't love you or whatever, you know, it doesn't mean the higher up, you know, have put a curse on you or whatever, you know what I mean? It just means that, you know, you're going to go through some things and it's going to make you stronger or it's going to make you weaker and it's up to you on which one you want to take away from it, you know what I mean? And, you know, like I said to you previously about I thought I was a weakling for not being able to kill me, kill myself. Could you imagine the strength that I know it sounds a bit weird, but the strength that someone actually had to have to, you know, to take their life, you know what I mean? It's, you know, I didn't have that strength. I can do it. I failed miserably a hundred times, you know what I mean? like, don't be worried about being weak sometimes because being weakness. sometimes is actually strength in itself, you know what I mean? So I think that's the thing to take away from it is, you know, yeah, there's things in this life you can't control. You can't control the outcome of them. You're just there for the ride. You know what I mean? So like get through the ride, get off that, you know, get off that roller coaster or whatever when you can. And then like I say, when you look back at a roller coaster, just realize you weren't the one controlling that. You know what I mean? So the outcome of it is not your fault. You know what I mean? Honest, right. Marcus, I just want to say from the bottom of my heart, right, I know how difficult it's been to go through what you've been through and to be as open. And I think no one can say anything different than how open you've been today about everything. And... I know that that takes an incredible amount of strength and I don't want to say that lightly, I really don't. And I think what for me, what stands out in this conversation, it isn't just like everything that you've been through, it's the fact that you're still here and not only that you're still here, you're still trying, you're still excelling and you've got this clarity around your mental health and about your situation that a lot of people don't find ever and you still... after going through everything you've been through, you're still choosing to go forward. And I think that's something a lot of people who will listen to this episode will relate to because I think sometimes life in general doesn't like break you or come all at once. It like wears you down over time. And when you're in that place, and I've been there in certain avenues and so have other people, it can feel like there's absolutely no way out. But what you've done today in this conversation is that even if you're in the middle of all that chaos and negativity, there is still a choice that can be taken. And for anything, for anyone who is listening right now, and I think if you are struggling, if you feel like things again on top of you, I can promise you, you are not alone. I think that's one of biggest things. And things can change even if it doesn't feel like it can right now. And I think that's the kind of final message I could say about this episode because it's been, for me, every episode that I do on this podcast, it's life changing for me because I get to... sit in the company with extremely incredible people that are so strong in what they've overcome. And I know everyone who listens to this gains strength and admiration for those who come on the podcast. And you're one of those people, Marcus, you're a role model to thousands of people, thousands of people. And I really do hope that just by openly talking about today on this topic, and I know it's gonna help so many people back here in Wales and all over the UK as well. And you're an incredible person for going through what you've been through and the person, I wish that I had that kind of strength that you have because it's a massive asset to you and your boys have got an incredible role model in their lives. And you are, you're a, you're a, ⁓ an amazing person. If I can help one person though, that's good enough for me. Like, as simple as cut as that, you know. Like I say, yeah, I just want everyone to know that there is hope. There is definitely hope. You may not see it, you know. Like I say, if the doors are shut, start banging on that wall. That wall soon crumble, you know what I mean? Even if you have to hit it a thousand times, a little bit's gonna come off, a little bit's gonna come off, a little bit's gonna come off. you're slowly going to see a hole, you know what I mean? And then the hole is going to get bigger and bigger and bigger and then all of sudden you made your own doorway. Fuck the locked doorway. know, it doesn't matter if it was padlocked, it doesn't matter if there people standing behind it, you made your own doorway. That's what I want to tell people that. If you think that your avenue is closed and there's all these hurdles and everything like that, nah, we ain't accepting that. There has to be a different way. I love it and I think that's the perfect thing to end on the podcast. And look, every single week we have incredible guests like we've had with Marcus today and it's gonna continue going forward for the next couple of months. We've had some really good news that the podcast is like now in the top 2 % in the world, which is like bonkers and it's all down to having incredible people like you. So. Again, every single week we're on, every Wednesday we release. I ain't going on holidays, but I'm recording twice today, so we got another person coming on now later on. So, but look, until then, this has been the Forged Within podcast. Thank you so much, Marcus, for coming on. You've been incredible. Anything you need, I'm always gonna be there for you, whatever you need anyway, you and your kids as well. But thank you so much. I really do appreciate it. No problem Sam and like I say maybe eventually there might be a part two at some point to deal with this. 100 % there is something that we can't talk about but I know that he will come back on in the future we will talk about that as well. Definitely but look until then 100 % but look until then this has been the Forge Within podcast where we have real people talking about their experience with mental health and as you can see from this conversation today We are changing the stigma on mental health. So again, until next time, see you all again. Thank you, bye now, bye. Here's your lightest. Okay, bye.
OM DENNE EPISODE
This week’s episode of The Forge Within Podcast is a heavy one.
I sat down with Marcus Chapman, and what he shared… is the kind of story that doesn’t come out easily.
We talked about growing up in chaos, being misunderstood, getting kicked out of school, feeling angry, and finding himself pulled into the wrong environment from a young age.
But this isn’t just a story about a rough start.
It’s about what happens when life keeps hitting you… again and again.
Marcus opened up about:
- Being in an abusive relationship and not speaking about it
- Fighting through false accusations and years in the court system
- Turning to drugs just to survive and keep going
- Losing a child… and the impact that had on him as a man
- Falling into depression, addiction, and a place where he didn’t want to wake up anymore
And one line really stuck with me:
👉 “It got to the point where I was going to sleep hoping I wouldn’t wake up… and waking up wishing it would be my last day.”
That’s how real this conversation gets.
But what makes this episode powerful…
is that Marcus is still here.
At one point, he had a choice,
keep going down that path… or change his life.
And he chose to live.
This episode isn’t about having the answers.
It’s about what it actually looks like when someone hits rock bottom… and finds a way to come back from it.
If you’ve ever felt like everything is against you…
like you’re stuck in a cycle you can’t break…
this one will hit home.
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Ansvarsfraskrivelse: Podkasten og kunstværket, det finnes indlejret på denne siden, er fra Sam David Wilkes | Childhood Trauma & Mental Health Advocate, som tilhører dens eier og ikke er tilknyttet eller godkjent av Listen Notes, Inc.
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