Episode 5: St Malachy's College Belfast (Penn Relays Hall of Fame)

Conor Curran: Welcome to the latest episode of the final split. I'm your host, Connor Kernan. This is a really special episode, one that I've been looking forward to doing since I had the idea of the podcast. And I want to set the scene a little bit for you about St. Malachi's College in North Belfast. It's a grammar school set at the bottom of the Antrim Road, and in North Belfast, it's pretty much surrounded by interface areas, the Republican New Lodge and the Loyalist Shankle and Crumbling Road. It was founded in eighteen thirty three and it's one of Belfast's oldest Catholic grammar schools and it's fair to say it would have a fairly distinguished tradition of academic excellence, music and sport. And over the last two centuries it's produced generations of young men and notable public figures such as the current Celtic manager Martin O'Neill, solicitor Pat Fanukin, actor Kieran Hines and literary greats like Bernard McLaverty. But in this episode we're going back to one of the great stories in Irish Schools Athletics, and many of you probably haven't heard this story before. It goes back to the late nineties when a group of teenage runners from St. Malachi's College in Belfast traveled across the Atlantic to Philadelphia to take on some of the best high school athletes in America at the famous Penn Relays. And they didn't just compete, they won. In fact, between ninety seven and two thousand, St. Max won the Championship of America DMR or Distance Medley relay four years in a row. They broke records, became the first high school team in Penn Relay's history to go under ten minutes for the distance medley, and in two thousand somehow survived a dropped baton and an extraordinary final leg chase from future American milestar Alan Webb. Who split 359.9 trying to catch them. But this episode isn't just about four races in Philadelphia because those teams came out of a remarkable running culture at Samaliki's, one that stretches across generations. We're talking about athletes like Greg Hannon, who ran 213 for the Martin, sub four minute Milers, Seamus McCann, and Brian Tracy, who was a Commonwealth Games 1500 meter finalist. Our schools champion Brian Conway, International Class Miler Gareth Turnbull, World Junior fifteen hundred meter finalist Colin McLean, and of course some of our guests tonight, Connor Sweeney, Fran McCaffrey, Joe McAllister, and others. The tradition didn't end there, though. Somalachies would go on to produce Kevin Seward, a two time Olympic Martiner, four time Paralympic champion Michael McKillop, and another generation of talented runners. So today I've brought together three members of the famous pen relays teams to take us back to where they were when all of this happened. Joe, Fra, Connor, thanks for joining me tonight. I suppose we should
Conor: That's good.
Conor Curran: start off with introductions.
JoeMcA: Yeah, I'm Joe McAllister. I ran for St. Malege's in the school back in the nineties and then for a good while after that and I am currently teacher in St. Malegeys and coach the running in St. Malegeys now as well, so just kinda keeping a tradition going.
Conor: Yeah, Connor Sweeney. I was a year behind Joe and so ran with him, you know, all through that era really.
Conor Curran: Thanks, Connor. And then finally Fra.
Francis: Yes, Francis McCaffrey. I ran for St. Mulliges from ninety seven to two thousand. I'm currently now strength medicine coach and helping out with athletes and football teams and stuff like that. So I'm still involved in sport, but not as much as run as as I had been in the past.
Conor Curran: And I I think if the listeners could see what I could see, they they would definitely see down the bottom of the screen two guys who look like they could definitely do a few sub five minute miles. Fra, you you look like you've bulked up a bit over the years. I I I know you've got fast
Francis: But
Conor Curran: twitch fibers, I think five minute mile might be a bit of a stretch at the minute, would it? No chance.
Francis: No chance. Too big now.
Conor Curran: Joe, I wanna start with you and long before you arrived in Somalikes so before you arrived there were brilliant runners like Seamus McCann, Brian Tracy, Brian Conway. Seamus ran seven fifty two for three thousand and three fifty nine for the mile. Tracy ran three thirty seven So when you arrived at Somalicy's like were you a sporty kid and did you know that you were joining a school with like serious runners that had already come through it?
JoeMcA: Not really to be honest, I suppose. The tradition the running tradition in Somalies is something that you really only kinda learn about once you get into the running itself. so like when I started I was a sporty kid, I played a lot of football, but certainly didn't know about the the tradition, until I kinda got into Somaliges and got into running.
Conor Curran: There's a there's a kind of famous first year cross country race that I've heard of over the years that is seen as a bit of a sort of way to scout for talent. I don't know if it happened back in your day, Connor, but was that
Francis: Yeah.
Conor Curran: was organized to try and identify the kids that looked like they could run a bit?
Conor: Yeah, I absolutely I mean I I don't know exactly when it started. I think it was a memorial race in relation to a first year pupil who who died some time before I started the school. So they had it every year. I came third in it without really knowing too much about the sport of running. I was kind of already before that interested anyway. I think I had already started with the running club a short time before the race. but I do remember after I think they took the first twenty guys into a changing room and sort of quite strongly invited them. wasn't quite a conscription but probably wasn't far off to go and give the running club a try. Now, you know, not many of them made it through the first year or whatever, but I think that's what they they did and then if you're getting that early catchment then you know you're hopefully going to get a few of those guys come through.
Conor Curran: And was was the main guy back when you joined still John Morin? or were there other teachers involved or was it mainly just him?
JoeMcA: Yeah, it was John Marn was the coach yeah, and he kind of he had been doing it for a good long line, sort of before that and he kinda took us through the nineties and then as we as our kind of group finished at the end of the nineties, he kinda took a step back from it because he then became the president of the college. and Patty McKillop sort of took over and ran things. on things then for the next kind of fifteen years or so.
Conor Curran: did you, Connor and Joe all come from the same primary school? Did you all come from North Belfast? Like did you all know each other before St Max and like
Francis: No, so my stories are a bit different to theirs. I so I went to Park Lodge Primary School and got involved in running while it was there. I then ended up going to Evan Vice College and ran tracking cross-country for them and always competed against Connor and Joe. was always there at Great Switch and then at one of the races, Dr. Morgan proved my dad, who you know from McCaffre senior, and asked with then I then joined something my ladies. I think obviously he had it in his head to Keep continuing the pain set success. So he asked me to come along, and then the Frasers were the same, but he came from every race now as well.
Conor Curran: When you're walking around Somalikis in the first year, are you seeing like trophies up in the walls or news up in the walls? Like I didn't go to Somalicese. I I really wanted to go to Somalicese, like you, Fra, I went to Park Lodge. And probably like you, Mr. Hill
Conor: Yeah.
Conor Curran: got me into cross country running at Park Lodge.
Francis: Yeah, we're sure.
Conor Curran: And there was that famous big league table you used to have at the entry to the upper playground where if you ran a good time round the castle, your name would be up up near the top up up the top of the league leaderboard.
Francis: I'm sure that's yeah. Yeah.
Conor Curran: So when I didn't go to Somalicese I was raging 'cause I I really wanted to go and I thought, you know, that's where all the runners go. But I had this notion in my head that if you walked around Somalikis, you know, there'd be like, you know, trophies and names of all and photographs of all these great former athletes. Connor, is that something that
JoeMcA: well.
Conor Curran: is in Somalicys now or was back then even?
Conor: I mean Joe could probably comment better as to what the current situation is, but I know back then whenever I first started, there wasn't so much trophies or on display everywhere, And what I did notice while I moved through the school from first to upper sixth, I think because of the heritage that we had and that kind of golden generation that used too corny an expression, you started seeing more of a recognition I think from the school and you started actually seeing it things going on display as I moved through. So probably by the time I left there were certainly a lot of things, the pen release shields and stuff were on display and other bits and pieces.
Conor Curran: So I wanna move into when you lot all arrive at St. Max. So we've talked about, you know, Brian Comey, Brian Tracy, Seamus McCann, even going back to people like Greg Hannon. Like, you know, he was a two thirteen marathon runner So you guys all arrive and with with you, comes Garth Turnbull, Colin McLean, And then the twins, Thomas and John Fraser, who both ran for North Belfast hires.
JoeMcA: in terms of others in that area, I mean there was a lot of guys running. there was a couple of guys a year or two below that, which was Dominic McAllister and Kevin Seward. So obviously Kevin's gone on to run a couple of Olympics. Dominic was running at a very good standard as well. So, you know, there was a good kind of good crop right through that time.
Conor Curran: Fra, one of the one of the names that k you know, repeatedly just comes up, was Dr. John Morin, who, you know, I think taught history and he was really the the driving force behind like all of the running. What do you remember about Doctor Morin? And do you remember your first encounter with him at training?
Francis: so I competed against these boys for North Belfast hires and Edmund Race and the school stuff. I can always remember always looking up to him and and thinking, What what what does he know that the wrestlers don't know? What is he doing? 'Cause they're always so good. and then when he approached my my father then at the the race and asked where to join. It was it was that was a special moment for me to be honest. He was brilliant.
Conor Curran: he was tapping up people from North Belfast Harriers back in the nineties?
Francis: Yeah, well we are for you at But I s I went competing against Connor quite a bit over the track and and doing cross country and stuff and I think because I was up there along with him, he sort of seemed to get put a bit of depth in the in the squad, you know.
Conor Curran: Yeah. And Connor, what what was your first impression of Dr. Moran
Conor: Well, my f first impression was as a history teacher 'cause that was the first time I ever met him. He he taught me history in first year. but he was just a physically big, imposing guy, you know, his nickname was Big John, that's what he was sort of commonly known as.
JoeMcA: Yeah, like like Connor, he also taught me history in the junior school. So probably my first impression with him was was was as a teacher and yeah, you know, in in that context he came across as quite strict and actually as a running coach he was quite strict as well. You know, it was kind of what he said that was that he wanted you to do, that was what you that's what you needed to do.
Conor Curran: can you give us a wee bit of an insight into how he trained Like, how hard did you train and you know, did he really, you know, push you guys to improve? Like what was his sort of like whole training philosophy back then?
JoeMcA: yeah, I mean we didn't run we certainly didn't run big mileage even when we were leaving school, like we would have been running six days a week,
Conor: Yeah.
JoeMcA: but probably definitely no more than fifty miles a week. it was you know, it was hard sessions, Tuesday, Thursday, hill sessions, Saturday mornings, and then the other days we basically ran on the hill. So it was like so three days a week we were doing hard sessions and the other three days a week we were doing runs up the cave hill. and you know, even I would say like our Monday runs, we would sort of do a run from the the the college up the Anthem Road, up into the Cave Hill, you know, some sort of loop across the Cave Hill, and then we would end up coming back down the Anthem Road, and invariably when you're running back down the Anthem Road, it would turn into run. So, you know, we were doing three sessions a week and a and quite a hard run on Monday. Wednesdays would have been a wee bit easier and Sundays again would have been longer, but we would have been running, you know, right up over the KFL and stuff. So a lot of intensity and a lot of you know, even the EG marriage was done on hills.
Conor Curran: It so it sounds like you didn't really get a day off. Like even even on your easy days, if you're running up the KF Hill, it sounds quite quite hard for for school kids. Was that was he did he deliberately sort of say, right, this is what I want you to do? And then he just saw you when you left school and when you got back? Like how did that all work?
Francis: a lot of the Cave Hill run days we just sort of done from the school, if I remember right, and we would have met in the sports hall and stuff and get ready and run from there. We sort of knew ourselves where we were going, what we were doing. But I think it's sort of the competitiveness among the group just made you push on a wee bit coming towards the energy. The likes of Jarry Mooney, who liked the day we sprint in the middle of it and get everybody to take him and then he sat back and he kind of didn't do a race, you know. But I so we sort of knew what we're doing on the the longer run days and then on the harder days, Tuesday, Thursday, anybody came with a session they did root down and and told us it before the session and he'd have panicked. But it's always pretty channeling.
Conor Curran: Well was Connor listening to the boys here talking about, you know, training three three hard sessions a week and then three easy runs up the Cave Hill Mountain on their on their off days. It doesn't sound like there's much of a break. Do you remember it being pretty tough? And do you remember like looking around you going, Jesus, I wish I'd never joined this running club, it's it's full on.
Conor: I don't think I ever got the point where I wish I hadn't joined the run club, but it was definitely full on. you talk about being nervous before races. I remember being nervous before sessions on occasion.
Conor Curran: Yeah.
Conor: I
Francis: Yeah.
Conor: honestly. And that it was partly about, you know, the guys around you were so good, partly about thinking, Am I gonna be able to keep up with these guys on on this session? But also just knowing the pain that was coming for you. you just knew every Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday. you were going to be hurting. and it was a common sight on especially on Saturdays after the Hill sessions to see guys just thrown up after their last rep. And yeah, those those easy runs in between, I don't I don't remember them being too easy.
Conor Curran: Ha ha ha.
Conor: maybe on Sunday you may have got one easy runner of the week, but yeah it was it was very, very tough and you were just dragged through by guys that were very good, you know.
Conor Curran: Can I ask what age you are at this point? Like is this you like second year, third year, fourth year? Like twelve, thirteen, fourteen?
JoeMcA: we wouldn't have been doing that much at that young age. You kind of build into it. So what we're talking about there is probably when we're sixteen, seventeen, eighteen.
Conor Curran: Okay. Okay.
JoeMcA: it would have built up to that. But essentially a version of it just with shorter runs and shorter sessions, so right throughout the winter our standard Thursday session was twenty by a minute all minute off. quite often run up at Mollusk in horrible conditions. But, you know, the first years might have done eight by a minute, all minute off, you know, and as
Conor Curran: Okay.
JoeMcA: you went through second years were doing ten, third years were doing twelve. So as you built up through the school, you built up to twenty. and then we got to the point where we had that really strong group of guys working together that we would have been gone doing a session like that and Riazzi would have been saying, right, you know, having a little rotor, right, you take this one, you take the next one, take this one, and sort of every third or fourth one, it was your one to take and you got the front, you made it hard and the rest then you kinda hung in, but it made this essence really good quality and it wasn't on one person to sort of lead all the time.
Conor Curran: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well listen, think we've painted a bit of a picture about what Somalikese was like training wise for those first four years because I want to sort of move into what the topic of the podcast is about, which is the pen relays. from what I can see, nineteen ninety-seven, Philadelphia, Franklin Field, the pen relays. For people who don't really know anything about the pen relays, I think they're about a hundred and fifty years old and the DMR is four legs. The first one's twelve hundred meters, then you have a four hundred metre leg, an eight hundred metre leg, and a sixteen hundred meter leg. when you first heard that you were going or there was this trip planned to Philadelphia to the pen relays, how did Doctor Morin tell you all about it? And you know, was there a bit of a fundraiser that had to happen to get you going out? What's the backstory to you actually going to pen?
JoeMcA: Yeah, to be honest, I c I can't really remember an awful lot of kind of what happened beforehand. I know that like actually there was there was a a group from Dublin that had actually done it the year before. it was the I think Dublin Institute of Technology. So it was Walker Twins, a couple of Walker guys that were walkers that were very good and then other guys, but that was essentially like a kind of like a tech kinda and they'd all come
Conor Curran: Mm-hmm.
JoeMcA: together and they were running that. But they had gone and they had won it. And I think that's where John Moran got they kinda got the idea of it's like, yeah, we could go and do that and we've got a good group. I don't really remember when we were told specifically that we had to do it, but I do know that we you had to post a qualifying time to get it. there is no DMers running Ireland, so we had to go and run a time that was sort of officially recorded. So we ended up going to Dublin. and this must have been like March time. It must have been fairly soon after the Irish schools cross country and
Conor Curran: Mm-hmm.
JoeMcA: gone to the track it also and I think somebody some official timer from Athletics Island came and timed us and we sent that off as our qualifier mark to get gone.
Conor Curran: Right.
JoeMcA: terms of fundraisers, I don't know, I don't think the school budgets were just as tight back then as they are
Conor Curran: Yeah.
JoeMcA: now. there was a contribution, you know, the sort of our parents paid a bit towards it. But The rest of it came from sort of whatever activities fund the the school
Conor Curran: Yeah, yeah.
JoeMcA: had.
Conor Curran: the team for ninety seven was Gareth Turnbull, Colin McLean, yourself Connor, and Joe. And from what I can see, and again correct me if I'm wrong, Colin McLean was the leadoff leg, he was the twelve hundred metre leg. Joe Then drew the short straw. he got he got the four hundred and that's probably the first and last time he's ever done a four hundred. it says that you ran the middle leg, Connor, the eight hundred, and then Gareth Turnbull ran the sixteen
Conor: Mm-hmm.
Conor Curran: hundred metre anchor. and this was your first title and you won it in ten one fifty eight. is that the right order and does that sort of fit in with your recollection, Connor?
Conor: Yeah, no, you've you've yeah, you've nailed the order there, exactly, yeah.
Conor Curran: So it was Column to Joe, to you, to Garth.
Conor: Yeah. So we'd had this all sort of talk through well in advance about what we expected and and where we all thought everything needed to be for us to win. And a massive part of our sort of race plan because we were all different age groups. So I was only fifteen and right through the guards would have been eighteen. So most of us were competing at least one or two or more years above her so w sort of odds were against us that way. But we ha say we had a very clear plan as to what we needed to do to get through the win. And a massive part of that was Colin McLean winning the first leg comfortably and giving us a bit of a cushion going into what thought me and Joe probably would have been younger had the the the tougher end of it. And that all fell to pieces within the first BM and Colin McLean fell. And
Conor Curran: Right.
Conor: after the first sort of hundred metres, he was about fifty metres down the rest of the pack. So he the biggest thing first of all was just not to panic. So for the calm he got back up and recovered really, really well. And he came in an about joint first kind of thing. but it wasn't what we thought we would need the win. We thought we would
Conor Curran: Mm-hmm.
Conor: have to have a comfortable cushion at that point.
Conor Curran: Mm-hmm.
Conor: but then you know, came to me and Joe and both did I think what we what we had to do, did our jobs, got through those legs, didn't lose as much ground as we maybe feared we would lose in some of the older ones and then give Gareth Turnbull a a fighting chance. And we knew really having Gareth Turnbull Niger was like having some sort of secret weapon. You know, he was just fantastic fantastic runners throughout his career, but really great form at at that stage. there'd been all this talk beforehand about Sharif Carey, he was a good runner
Conor Curran: Mm.
Conor: himself. But as soon as McGareth got the batten within touch, there was never a doubt in my mind that he was gonna come through a as the winner, and and that's that's what did happen.
Conor Curran: Looking at looking at press reports from the time, your your recollection's spot on. They talk about Sharif Carey, he ran for West Springfield of Virginia. And it basically says that Turnbull passed him early. It says he was then passed by Carey, but then Turnbull attacked again on the final turn. Is that is that your recollection is that there was a bit of a ding dong going going on between them?
Conor: Yeah, yeah. I remember it really well it was a real, real close battle, because Chief Create got it he had a lead on on Gareth and there was a bit of chat beforehand that they go be close between them and really whoever got the lead would win. I didn't think that. I I just as long as Gareth was in touching distance I thought he would have it, but he was a good athlete. it was really exciting and you're seeing we're not used to that racing in that crowd. You know, suddenly you're racing in front of tens of thousands of people, they're all on their feet, they're all cheering, they're they're going crazy. And it was really, really exciting. But what I do remember is Garth came through, won the race, we were all cheering, jumping, going mad. But Gareth and Colin McLean had this stupid rule among themselves that they weren't allowed to celebrate a race by raising their hands above their waist. Which was daft. So whenever Garth crossed the line of this absolute exuberance of joy didn't really know how to express that. So he
Conor Curran: Ha ha.
Conor: threw the baton on the ground as hard as he could, and it bounced up and it nearly hit one of the officials in the head. So it
Conor Curran: Nice.
Conor: was straight away disqualification flag went up.
Conor Curran: No
Conor: we'd made some good friends beforehand with some of the the groundsmen and the officials and the director of the whole stadium actually was an Irish guy. so We got it sorted out, but there was about a two and a half minute period where we were actually disqualified. So that was an interesting twist.
Conor Curran: What what what would John Moran have said if you boys had got DQ'd because Turnbull hit someone on the head with a button? I don't think it'd have been loud bell back in the Antrim Road.
Conor: I would not have liked to have been on the receiving end of that, that's all I could say.
Conor Curran: No, no. Let's get down to the nitty gritty. Joe, what did you run for the four hundred and Connor? What did you run for the eight hundred?
JoeMcA: I I don't know my absolute facial split. Somewhere around fifty four, fifty five. you know, I certainly wasn't at Speedster, but you know, the
Conor Curran: Yeah.
JoeMcA: for for a sixteen year old it was it wasn't too bad.
Conor Curran: For for a guy who made significant marks over ten thousand meters and half marathons later in his career, like a
Francis: Yeah.
Conor Curran: f fifty four is pretty handy, Joe. Connor, do you remember what you split for the was it the eight hundred leg?
Conor: Yeah, around one fifty six. So that was the P B at the time.
Conor Curran: And was back in the nineties, I don't know if you were old enough to have a beer, you certainly weren't old enough to have a beer in America, but was there any celebrating that was done by St. Malachis that night?
Conor: It did celebrate. There was no there was no alcohol. We we you know, even through when we were a teen Samalogis, we we did not drink alcohol. Like we were running at athletes, athletics was our was our our life, it really was. But no, there was definitely celebration. W there was a a lot of the local Irish community really embraced us over there, made some really good friends and it set up a whole big scheme where with basketball and everything of there's still to this day there's an exchange scheme going back and forth that all originated with pay and but a lot of the locals took us to the New Deck. I don't know where the name comes from, 'cause it's not very Irish, but down there and we were treated, you know, really, really well by the staff and owners and everything. And, you know, like I say, John Moore and some of the other staff that was over with us, they certainly had a trick or two, but but we had had a lot of fun, like it really was good.
Conor Curran: And Gareth Turnbull left his hands above his waist at some point during the night today. And y and you knew you knew there was
Conor: I think he may learn there disaster after that. I think there may have been some races
Conor Curran: Ha ha ha.
Conor: he celebrated like a normal human being after that, but yeah.
Conor Curran: I'll have to look at old photographs. you go back the next year and some Macs prove that it wasn't a one off because you returned as defendant champions and this time you won again with a slightly slower time of ten seven point seven seven. And track and field news has the order down as Joe McAllister on the twelve hundred. Handed over to Euphra on the 400, you handed over to Connor on the eight hundred, and then Colin McLean finished off with the sixteen hundred split. in terms of the result, again they had West Springfield in second, ten seconds back. And basically, wee bit of a a news article in the Daily Pennsylvanian says that Joe McAllister controlled the twelve hundred meters before breaking away on the final lap. and then it says the rest of the boys just sort of improved upon that. So, Joe, do you remember that? Is that an accurate reaction? Like you you led off, got the gap, and the boys held it?
JoeMcA: Yeah, yeah, so like yeah, I'd had a really good year and I was in good shape. And you know, Connor was a much better track athlete than I. a few weeks beforehand we'd done a time trial over twelve hundred. and I'd managed to sort of just pip him in it and I'd ran three five, like in a training run up at Andrew Forum, you just the two of us getting a running together. So knew it was in good shape. So then when we got the pen and the race went out and it didn't go too hard. And I didn't I kinda consciously hadn't wanted to get too carried away on the first lap. I got round and the four hundred split was sixty five and I was like, my God, what am I doing here? I need to get going. So I just hit the front and push, push, push. So I got round and it finished in three seven. So obviously, you know, it was good kind of effort after that. after the first lap, I knew it could kinda maintain that. but yeah, kinda got round with a little bit of a lead and Fra had much more speed than me so he wasn't getting he wasn't getting caught in the way that I was the the first year over four hundred.
Conor Curran: Well we'll bring in we'll bring in the big man here, Fra. so Fra McCaffrey, you were you were handed the four hundred legs, so you go all the way to Philly and you're running probably for less than a minute. Fra, you've probably got the best the best deal
Conor: Okay.
Conor Curran: in this trip, don't you? You know?
Francis: Yeah, it sounds like it doesn't it? And I I always had a sort of a a good turn of speed, so it it it
Conor: Yeah.
Francis: kind of suited me to to do sort of eights and fours.
Conor: Yeah.
Francis: I Joe handed it up, I think I ran a fifty one But it was just basically me holding on to the lead then.
Conor Curran: You don't remember anyone coming up on you, heavy breathing or like getting into like a a la
Francis: Not not in that not in that risk, no. I I I think I was out on it. I I was clear like a dead stage. So it was basically just holding on. Some of the other years now I had a couple of battles but that that year was out now, like it just wasn't too late.
Conor Curran: And what age what age are you at this one, Fra? So are you sixteen? Si nineteen ninety eight? Seventeen. Okay, so you're running you're
Francis: I'm seventeen, seventeen, yeah,
Conor Curran: running fifty one ish for four hundred and what what kind of eight hundred shape are you in sort of that year or?
Francis: I'd say maybe run out one fifty five, fifty six, maybe with that. Yeah.
Conor Curran: Okay, okay, okay. And what do you remember about the crowd, Fra? 'Cause we haven't really talked about the atmosphere of the crowd in Franklin Field. Like was it anything like you'd ever seen before?
Francis: it was special, it was really good experience.
Conor: Yeah.
Francis: I can remember sp saying it was our Olympics, it our Olympic games and over but it was unbelievable.
Conor Curran: Was there a sense when you guys came back and they you'd won the year before that there was like, there's those Irish boys, that's that's a Max team that won last year? Did you feel like you sort of were s were walking a wee bit taller in ninety eight than you were in ninety seven when you might have been a wee bit maybe intimidated by it all?
Francis: I think as the years went on it definitely crept into me, but you could see people starting to notice who we were and stuff. I think it was the the year we done the four by eight hundred. a guy beside beside me and you sort of line up and paint. And the guy beside me, so he looked at my kit and saying this made me but next to a row. I don't think they think we're thought we're gonna do it but I definitely started the notices as usual that one like.
Conor Curran: There's not too many environments where a couple of lads from North Belfast walk into an atmosphere and feel intimidated. But I imagine I imagine Franklin Field was maybe one of them in ninety seven. Connor, what did you think in ninety eight when you were going back? W were you going back with like, let's hold on to this title, let's show them what we're made of, or was there a lot of confidence in that team?
Conor: Yeah. we certainly did went back went back better known. Not nobody heard of us the first year. But i I don't know about going back walking taller. I mean when we went over in year one, it probably sounds arrogant now, but we went over in our first year expecting to win. You know, that was the reality. So when we were walking about that stadium in our first year, warming up in our first year, it Every one of us expected to win and to come away with anything else would have been we we all would have viewed it as a failure, even coming second. And that was just kind of the attitude that we had. So we're kind of almost the underdogs, I think, because nobody else knew that about us the first year. But the second year you go back and you're the one with the target on your back. So you know, everybody's kinda coming for you, you're not the the surprise package anymore. So it maybe carries a bit more pressure. but again we knew we were lucky, we knew we had a sort of once in a generation type of talent pool. and it when we went back that second year, again, as arrogant as it may sound, w we just had that confidence and we just expected that we were there to win.
Conor Curran: Yeah. So and on the first team in ninety seven you had a world class athlete in Garth Turnbull. And don't get me wrong, you guys are all amazing athletes, but you know, Turnbull on the track was was a bit of an animal. The the missing person from this line up tonight is Colum McLean. And Colum's own achievements I suppose deserve a bit of proper attention. so in nineteen ninety eight, just for the benefit of the listeners, and again, correct me if I'm wrong. Collum goes to the World Junior Championships in Anancy in France and reaches the fifteen hundred metre final where he's sixth in the world. Joe, I think you were saying to me at s at one point that he might have even been a year young at that point in nineteen eighty eight,
JoeMcA: yeah, although he was a school year above me, he was born in the same year as me, so he was still he was still junior the following year and you know, at that point he would have been gone, he should have been one of the favourites for the European juniors the following summer. It didn't quite pan out that way. But I mean, like you say Turnbull was a world class athlete. Like Column was Column was as good, you know, had the potential to be potentially even be even better. you know Going back to the first year, you know, Connor said, like, we talked a lot before we went the first year about breaking ten minutes. And all of that centered around Column running close to three minutes and Column fell and he didn't do that. But like that Column won the European Youth Olympics that summer. Like he was he was that good. The week after we came back from Penn, he won the off of that European Youth Olympics. in around three fifty, having ran close to three minutes, through twelve hundred in that race. You know, he was he was class and if he hadn't have fallen that first year, Probably even a bit quicker than you know when we were that second year that we were talking about now, ninety eight, I think because we had that gap, you know, I don't think Connor or Column on the last two legs were under the pressure that they necessarily You know, that you need to get a real good performance out in terms of time. you know, because the second team was ten seconds back from us.
Conor Curran: Yeah. what times did Column what times did he get for eight hundred, fifteen hundred, or three thousand when he was at school?
JoeMcA: In school he he certainly was the R School's senior boys record holder. He ran three forty seven in the R School's championships. Hi his best time that year would have been around three forty two, three forty three, you know, when some of the British miners meets he went to the Commonwealth Games in Manchester,
Conor Curran: Yeah.
JoeMcA: two thousand and two. you know, so he did hit a very good standard.
Conor Curran: Yeah, his PBs are listed in World Athletics as one forty eight five three for eight and three forty point four two for fifteen hundred. And he was, as you say, in two thousand and two, he was in the Commonwealth Games in Manchester. Connor, what's your recollection of Colin McLean back then? Just like a really special talent or a really special talent who trained really hard and got the best out of himself? Like what how would you describe Colin McLean to someone who's never heard of him?
Conor: You couldn't be a Sit Malege runner and and not train really hard, it wouldn't have been tolerated. So that just wasn't
Conor Curran: Yeah.
Conor: that wasn't an option. but he was a really special talented runner and just he was he was a delight to watch. he just out of any runner that I ever knew personally or trained with, he just looked the part. He just looked so graceful. on an athletics track. and everything looked effortless and he people sometimes would have said, you know, it's all natural talent, it doesn't train hard, but that was just like he knocked his pan in every day. He just made everything that he did look effortless. Me, Turnbull for example, would have been crossing the line, collapsing in a heap, you know, dying. And he wouldn't be like that. He would cross he'd just look he'd look fine, but there was a a hell of a lot of effort behind that. And like I say, it wouldn't be tolerated in Somalies otherwise.
Conor Curran: Yeah. And for is this the time where you've come into Somalikes? So you've come down from Edmund Race, you're now mixing up with Connor, Joe, and Colin McLean, all the all the big boys.
Francis: Yeah.
Conor Curran: Like are you are you getting more ex sort of excited in in into your athletics now because of the people you're rubbing shoulders with?
Francis: I then obviously in September of that year in in in the school year. and getting obviously looked up to all these boys, especially Colin, as boys are saying that he was he was special like. so to train along with him and just be a part of it was was brilliant. It was a good experience. They really pulled me on as well. It was a lot of stuff they were doing, we we wouldn't have been implementing in in the highers or Edmund Race at that time. So it it was That was good. It an eye open for me too like but was it was good. Yeah.
Conor Curran: Yeah. We're gonna move on to nineteen ninety nine. You've each of you have talked about that like ten minutes, Joe. You talked about before you went out, you wanted to break ten minutes. And I think I'm I'm pretty sure that you your team was the first team to break ten minutes at the Penn relays, in nineteen ninety nine. So in nineteen ninety nine, this is the third year, you you go back to look for three in a row. You win and you run nine fifty nine point eight four And you're the first high school team in Penn Relay's history to break ten minutes for the DMR. the official Pen Relays Wall of Fame team is Joe McAllister, Joe Henry, Fra and Connor. So we've got three of the four on the call. I imagine sub ten was a big goal for this one, Joe, was it?
JoeMcA: Yeah, just correct you there, it was Thomas Fraser, four I mean certainly yeah, it was it was a big target again and I think having kinda won it two years in
Conor: Yeah.
JoeMcA: a row, we really did go that third year going, Right, we wanna break ten here, you know, we're really kinda pushing for it. I ran the twelve and just kinda got after it right from the get go, you know, sort of having what I'd mentioned the previous year where the first lap had been relatively slow. but I know I did have good competition. You know, I ran three two there was someone else finished around sort of three two ish as well. So, you know, it wasn't like I was out in my own. I was in a race and I certainly remember kinda having people around me, but like sort of getting to the front and sort of making it hard to make sure that we were
Conor: Yeah.
JoeMcA: were hitting good times. And I think yeah relative to kind of the The first year when I was on the four and I really I wasn't a four hundred metre runner, and Connor was on the eight and a very, very good eight hundred metre runner, but was only was only fifteen at that point. you know, at that that year ninety nine, everyone was you know, seventeen or eighteen. You know, they're
Conor Curran: Mm.
JoeMcA: in their last year or two off school and you know, more experienced and just a better standard that we knew we had better four hundred and eight hundred meter runner and obviously Connor was Connor was a special talent on the on the fifteen hundred at the end.
Conor Curran: We'll get to that. But we'll let we'll let Fra have this moment. Fra, what did you run for the eight hundred? Can you remember?
Francis: I ran 153 that day. So it's all
Conor Curran: Well, very good.
Francis: right. I got the but I got the button in seconds, I remember. I think around the first hundred meters and about 13 seconds to try and catch
Conor Curran: Ha ha.
Francis: him. And then I sat behind him until about 200 to go in and kicked. I was always had a good turn of speed at the end, so I kinda put
Conor Curran: in the days before Morton Bicarb, Joe, and it'd say you'd you'd appreciated a wee bit of bicarb, that last
JoeMcA: Yeah.
Conor Curran: hundred meters. Connor, what do you remember about nineteen ninety nine? Joe's bigging you up here with your with your last leg.
Conor: Well, I remember there was a massive storm, massive
Conor Curran: Right.
Conor: thunderstorm, and it actually delayed the start of the race by I think a couple of hours or certainly at least at least an hour. and that was, you know, where you're you're kind of warmed up and you're you're ready to go. And then this happens and then everything's put in hold and you don't know When how long you're gonna be delayed for and I mean it was a really bad storm. There's a chance there was some talk about it would have to be put off maybe to the next day. So you a long time of trying to stay calm and focused really is is the biggest thing I remember about it. and you're kinda trying to stay a bit warmed up as well, but at the same time not overdoing it. So it was a really careful balancing act. But then yeah, finally finally it went ahead. a bit a very wet track, very strange running conditions. You know, we sort of imagine just immediately post thunderstorm, like a strange feeling in the air.
Conor Curran: Mm-hmm.
Conor: and I got the baton I can't remember how far ahead, but I just I just knew that ten minutes ten when we went out there that was targeted all along. It was 10 minutes, it was all about 10 minutes, it was all about 10 minutes. it's hard to run when you're so far ahead, and it got to the stage where there was no pressure at all, and it was just that 10 minutes mentally. Looking even almost immediately after the race, I was always a little bit disappointed actually. That year with my own personal performance, it's probably the only year
Conor Curran: Right.
Conor: that I am critical of my own personal performance. but And I think it was just that complete lack of pressure of nobody around me
Conor Curran: yeah.
Conor: to to push me on, but I did have my hand o'clock and I did make sure that it did enough just to get dip di dip under that ten minute mark anyway.
Conor Curran: can you remember what split you're on, Connor?
Conor: I think it was about four ten or something. I can't actually remember
Conor Curran: Okay.
Conor: for sure, but yeah. I n not as fast as I I would have wanted to. but yeah, it was a difficult just set of circumstances just with the way it it it unfolded and you're just racing purely against the clock, which is always more difficult than racing against other people.
Conor Curran: I mean it's still an incredible time, you know, four ten for sixteen hundred meters. But yeah, the the line the clock showed nine fifty nine eighty four. I'd say if you were point one seven slower, it would have been a fairly miserable bus journey back to the airport.
Conor: Yeah, that's it. I mean it's such it's it's such small margins, but it's funny, I mean y no chance at knowing any pace judgment now I go out for a run and keep run an eight minute mile or ten minute mile with no difference. But back then you were so like you knew what you were running to the second, you know, every four hundred metres, so even though it's a small I knew it was under the time, I knew I was doing enough just to sort of get it through under the time, but yeah, still sort of slightly critical of my own performance in that one. But it was great to get it done, great to be first to go under ten minutes. It was a real a real honour, you know.
Conor Curran: Yeah, well, I mean that's three in a row and that's the official Penn Wall of Fame team. You know, you broke ten minutes and that was nineteen ninety nine and then then we get the two thousand. so Millennium, the fourth title, probably produces what the press would say is the most dramatic race of the four. the Irish Times preview identified South Lakes of Virginia with Alan Webb, the famous Alan Webb on the anchor leg as the main threat. And it also said that Somaliki's plan to use Thomas Fraser at 1200, Fra at 400, one of Dominic McAllister or John Fraser at 800, and yourself Connor at 1600. And the race day lineup ultimately used John Fraser at 800. So the lineup I have is Thomas kicked it off with the 1200 in 306.9. Hand it over to you, Fra, who absolutely blazed it. with a forty nine point
Francis: Sure.
Conor Curran: forty nine point seven. you handed over to John Fraser. So these are twin brothers from North Belfast. John ran one fifty six point two and then Connor you finished off with a four seven point nine bringing the team back in ten minutes point seven. So sounds all fairly straightforward but where where does all the drama come in?
Conor: So Drama came in very similar to year one, right from the start. So again you go in, you know, that old saying, no plan survives first contact with the enemy sort of thing. You know, we have a very clear game plan about about what we want to do and we're how we're gonna run the race. And f I just remember the gun gone and, you know, quite a scuffle at the start 'cause it is a bit of a context sport, especially the relays and the amount of teams in it and Everybody's massing the start, and it's almost like that sort of carpoon fading where it's just a bit cloud of dust and you can't see what's going on, but all that it could see was this baton sailing majestically into the air. And then I remember seeing it going up and thinking, please tell me that's not ours. And the
Conor Curran: Yeah.
Conor: whole cloud of dust moves off. The button comes down, hits the ground, and there's just the ginger Irish man scratching his head, looking around for his button, and
Conor Curran: God.
Conor: it's like it's Thomas. and he picked it up. and and off he went. he's even further behind than than Colin was. The whole crowd was a big and take a gasp of breath from like thirty thousand people sounds
Conor Curran: Right.
Conor: you know, it's nothing to heard before. But I remember turning to Frere John, I think it might have been John, and just saying like Stay calm, it's alright, we still we've still got
Conor Curran: Right.
Conor: this, just stay focused. and then again Thomas came around and ran a fantastic leg, catches up the majority, you know, all the distance basically on the people in front of him. Again, we don't have though the lead we expected, it's similar to year one where Thomas has gone so well, we're expecting a significant lead. We don't have that. Frapples a sub fifty. We had this fear that four hundred running is a bit of a a specialty in America and we're middle distance runners really, stepping and Fras stepping down from eight fifteen to run that against like specialist four hundred athletes. So there's always a bit of a fear there that like you could give away time for that. But no, when he runs 49 as a as a school kid, then you know that's fine. John then runs a really, really strong leg as well. And if I I got the button in second place, but I was ahead of Alan Webb. And in my head, really, I was in first place getting the button. I don't mean to be disrespectful to whoever that athlete was that was ahead of me, but I knew that it was Alan Webb as the one to be fearful of. And now
Conor Curran: Yeah.
Conor: all the chat beforehand had been, you know, it wasn't like his performance didn't come out of the blue. All the chat beforehand very much was about Alan Webb ha has a good team and Alan Webb's going to break four minutes.
Conor Curran: Yeah.
Conor: and that team that he's running with are very, very good and will give us a run for our money. So I was focused on him. But the guys that ran so well beforehand that they'd given me quite a good lead on him.
Conor Curran: Yeah.
Conor: Now, the main thing we'd been over there with one it. Year one won it, year two defended our title, year three we've broken the record, year four
Conor Curran: Mm-hmm.
Conor: was all about doing the double of the distance medley and the four by eight. So that was absolutely
Conor Curran: Yes.
Conor: in the forefront of my mind. That
Conor Curran: Right.
Conor: was what we were there for to come again, that sort of arrogance, if we hadn't come away with two championships, we would have viewed it as a failure. So I remember catching up with the guy who was leading quite early and just sitting on him and sitting on him and sitting on him. And I could hear the stadium announcer the whole way around just keeping track of where Alan Webb was and how much he was closing up and getting very excited because he's closing the distance on me, closing the distance on me. And I just was sitting very comfortable and I remember about six hundred, five hundred ago, I it was, and the stadium announcer sort of saying about how close he's getting. So it's like, yeah, that's that's close enough. And then I put in my bursting speed just to get away, and all really that race was about. was about winning. We'd already broken the ten minutes so we weren't too bothered about that. It was about winning and keeping something in our legs for the
Conor Curran: you strike me as like I'm sure you're all very bright. I know you're all very bright, but Connor, you strike you strike me as the thinker of this group. Fra you you
Francis: Okay.
Conor Curran: s you strike me as
Conor: No.
Conor Curran: you strike me as the dependable the dependable speedster who is is gonna is is gonna run with us
Francis: I was just a fast guy's just funny.
Conor Curran: is gonna run with us heart hard on his sleeve.
Francis: That's a butt.
Conor Curran: did you enjoy that forty nine, that sub fifty split?
Francis: so well before Dr. Moore used to take his wee walks through in the track and give you he talking to, and he had said to me, Do you think you could run fifty? I couldn't remember saying to him, I'll break fifty and I didn't I didn't think it was going to but just I just wanted to be on the team. and he he said he said to me, If you can run fifty, I'll be happy and stuff. So when we got to the race then and Thomas took off, as Connor says, I heard the big noise from the crowd as if something had happened. I was actually down stretching. And one of the American guys patted me in the and said, Unlucky. And I looked I looked and Thomas was throwing his hands on his head. I was like, what happened? So we put a panic then so when he came around it I don't know if it broke the fifty other ways, but when he came around in second place and I knew I had the I had the work leg.
Conor Curran: I love the confidence of just a North Belfast school just sort of like strut strutting around the place like you know, we own Franklin Field. Doesn't matter if we drop bands, we drop bands all the time, we still win. but Connor, I think you're sort of doing yourself down a wee bit because the press also reported that you dropped a fifty six second last slap. So you'd obviously a a turn of speed yourself. it also reported that Alan Webb received the batten nearly eleven seconds behind and ran a three fifty nine point nine sixteen hundred metre leg. but you held on for the win in in ten zero zero point seven, the fourth consecutive title with South Lake's Alan Webb's team second in ten two thirty two. But then you were saying about the four by eight hundred double. So tell tell us about that, Joe. this was Fra the Frasers, John and Thomas, and then Connor on on the last leg. And the splits I have from that, and without giving away the result, 'cause I want Connor to tell us about the race, the splits were Fra 155.8, John 155.2, Thomas 156.5, and then Connor with a 151.4, which is incredible while you're still at school, and a seven thirty-eight eighty-six. four by eight hundred. So what are your recollections of that relay risk, Connor?
Conor: Yeah, so I remember it quite well. I it's actually one of my favourite races, sort of one of some fondest memories of of of of any race. and again it was just it's the crowd, we're going in there, everyone knows St. Malege's are back, they're there to do a double, that's something different. It's not done, you know, I don't know if it's been done before, probably has, but certainly not done very often. it. and I remember the get guys going off everybody, every one of them, all three of them running really, really good races. right up in the mix the whole way, sort of first, second and thereabouts. I remember g I got the button slightly down, second place, slightly behind. was able to catch the guy in front of me fairly quickly. I sort of had a preference then of way I used to let it like to run with eight hundreds, I usually like to with about three hundred to go down that back straight was where I I I used to like to put try to put the the real work in. And just sort of sitting on him until we got to that point and just as we came to the bat past the bend into that back straight Moving to go past him and again I'd said earlier about running back then, I think it's getting less these days, but it was contact sport back then. I do remember going past him and he didn't really want to let me pass. and moving out, moving out, and I think I ended up being nearly the end three before I was able to pass him and there was certainly a good tangling of of elbows. but I got past and then as soon as it was clear, it just I just felt good. I just remember feeling good the whole day and the whole race, just feeling really, really good. and as soon as it got past them and the crowd got up on their feet at the whole tussle and trying to overtake and you feed off that as well 'cause you're not you know, you don't get that every day. And feeding off that coming through very strong, back straight, and then just able to carry that on through into the finish and yeah, and then just seeing the guys you come across the line all sitting there and you know as well that's your last year in school
Conor Curran: Yeah.
Conor: that you know, i it's becomes something you win every year. and you know that's the last one. And it's
Conor Curran: Yeah.
Conor: great it's better sweet and like you're not gonna do that again, but
Conor Curran: Mm.
Conor: it's great to go out in that high of doing, you know, we've done the double, something we haven't done before. and being there the some of the, you know, best friends that you've had in your life to celebrate it with you was
Conor Curran: Mm.
Conor: just it's fantastic. It it really is one of my one of my favourite days in in life really.
Conor Curran: Yeah. It sound it sounds fantastic. Is it true that Fra, is it true that when you win a race over there that you get a watch? Because you guys you guys must be coming down with these watches.
Francis: Yeah. That is true. I gave gave one to my my father and I gave one to my grandfather, but I think I still have two there.
Conor Curran: I fully I fully expect to see them being worn in the Lansdowne Hotel on Christ on Christmas Eve this
Francis: Yeah.
Conor Curran: year. that's that's a that's a must.
Conor: I won five watches. I have one. the bus the school bus driver has one.
Conor Curran: Ha ha.
Conor: My dad has one, John Moran has one, 'cause the coach just didn't get them. by
Conor Curran: Right.
Conor: the end I remember in the last year I was actually asking, like, this is weird, but is there any chance you'd give me a a a woman's watch? Which the slides were,
Conor Curran: Ha ha ha.
Conor: so a sister has one, you know. So yeah, I ha I have one out of the the total Ex exactly, yeah.
Conor Curran: a cheap a cheap Christmas present, Connor. I like it. I like it. But Connor, you're joking about your watches. You're you're like Delboy. You're like the Delboy of Somalices here. The
Conor: Yeah.
Conor Curran: your your individual pen record is extraordinary. four consecutive DMR victories, anchor on the final two, the four by eight hundred victory, and then a sixth watch male female goes to the bus driver, goes to your sister. I don't know who you've s who you've given that one to
Conor: Yeah.
Conor Curran: when when the old boys win the Olympic development DMR in two thousand and one and Penn describe you as the only male athlete in its history to win the same high school event four years in succession. So the question is, does that achievement mean more now than it did when you were eighteen?
Conor: I I think it does, actually, you know. you get older, you you look back and things, everything's when you're back in the thick of it, you're just running and you're you get that done and you're like, Well well what's next? You know, what's the next race coming up, what's the next thing that's happening? You just move from event to event and happens so quickly. So yeah, y you do look back, and you look back with very fond memories a big thing that sticks out in my mind that Penn really people were kind enough to invite us over for that Wall of Fame and we've established it was twenty twenty two despite me thinking it was only a year ago.
Conor Curran: Ha ha.
Conor: so that that's that's how old my mind's getting out. But I remember going back to that and going and watching some of the races again and watching the guys and girls 'Cause it's college and high school athletes, But watching them warm up and doing races and looking at like being awed actually by the athleticism of everybody around you and thinking, like, wow, look look at how fit and strong and healthy all these guys are and then as a sort of forty year old thinking back and going, There was a time when we were that athletic and that and fit and healthy and were going around like these guys and then my next thought after that was, No, hang on a second. There was a time when we were the best people of you know, and we were better than everyone. We weren't as good as it we were the best. And that
Conor Curran: Yeah. Yeah.
Conor: sort of blew my mind. not to get too philosophical about it, but it does show you how time and you do you know, you make the most of the time that
Conor Curran: Yeah.
Conor: you have because it's there's gonna come a point where that's finished. You know.
Conor Curran: Yeah, no.
Conor: so it's really good to have those memories to to look back on. But It does shape your life as well, you know, the commitment and dedication and the friendships you make, everything about it, you know, despite the fact that none of us went on to make our living as professional athletes. But there wasn't a wasted moment. It just shapes everything about how you interact with the world and your relationships and what is important in life and what isn't, you know.
Conor Curran: Yeah. you mentioned twenty twenty two, going back to the Hall of Fame. You were all you were all invited back to Philadelphia. Joe, did you go and can you tell us a little bit about that trip?
JoeMcA: Yeah, so originally it was due to happen in twenty twenty. but then it was cancelled for COVID and then nothing happened in twenty twenty one. So twenty twenty two it was like, right, everything's back on. So yes, it was so the team that they inducted the Wall of Fame was the the nineteen ninety nine team, which was the one the first to break ten minutes. So yeah, that was myself, Connor, Frat and Thomas Fraser. And the four of us all went went over. and we rented a house in Philadelphia, like an Airbnb. And we were there for four or five nights. It was it was a great experience just to be back and experience it all to go back into the stadium, you know, with the pen relays on. they really looked after us. And again, Connor mentioned earlier, you know, over the years since Penrynace, there's a real kind of special relationship that's built up between St. Malikies and some some groups in Philadelphia. and you know, those guys really looked after us, you know, picked us up from the airport, dropped us off, brought us out for dinner, you know, so As well as being really well looked after by the people at Penriles. you know, we were looked after by a whole group of kinda Irish Americans that have a good link with Somalikis when we're out there as well. So it really was a a great experience.
Conor Curran: The I mean obviously you've got a a fantastic crop of young lads running now at Somalichi's show and that's you know, you're the driving force behind keeping that tradition going. And, you know, I think this autumn and probably this winter we'll see, you know, Somaliches really, you know, dominating on cross country the way that they've done the last two years. Could you foresee Somalichis back out to Penn?
JoeMcA: You know, it is something I've thought about and I've thought about it a couple of times over the years and sort of said, you know, this team there that we could that we could take. so it's definitely something that I've I thought about, you know, just it the logistics of making it work. we certainly have a good think about it.
Conor Curran: Well, do you know what? Maybe maybe if enough people hear this story and
JoeMcA: Ha ha.
Conor Curran: this is this is shared amongst, the well healed alumni of of the college. you never know, you might not have to do a fundraiser or pawn any of Connor's remaining gold
Conor: Yeah.
Conor Curran: watches in to organise a flight over to Philadelphia. But I'm gonna finish off with a few rapid fire questions just to finish off this this interview. And Fra, I'm gonna ask you and the first thing that comes to your head, don't think about it, just instant reaction. Who's the most naturally talented Somalik's runner you've ever seen?
Francis: How much we have?
Conor Curran: And Connor, who would have been the hardest trainer?
Conor: Joe Joe threw
Conor Curran: So
Conor: up in the middle of a session one time and still caught us, beat us.
Conor Curran: Ha ha ha.
Conor: Ridiculous.
Conor Curran: He th he threw up in the middle of a session, still caught you and still beat ya.
Conor: Yeah. Yeah.
Conor Curran: Fair enough. Joe, who's got the best kick out of anyone you've seen?
JoeMcA: Turnbull's kick was hard to beat. O'Connor had a very good kick as well. They were there were but you know there was a couple of years between them so they weren't really racing each other in the prime, but I wouldn't have fancied kicking against either of them.
Conor Curran: Good answer. Diplomat. Connor, Gareth Turnbull at his best versus Colin McClain at his best. Who wins in a fifteen hundred?
Conor: you put really put me on the spot there. It is such a hard question to answer. I think Gareth wins it by half a second through sheer bloody mindedness.
Conor Curran: Yeah, okay. And they're
JoeMcA: Yeah, I'll back Connor up on that one in that Garth at his best was a three thirty six runner and went to the World Championships in Paris. you know that that's a bit of a level above of where Colum got to at three forty. So I think at at at his best you would have to go with Hernball.
Conor Curran: Yeah. I suppose to close it off, four consecutive pen relays, the first sub ten high school DMR in pen history, a Championship of America four by eight, Alan Webb running sub four trying to catch you, two dropped relay buttons, a bus driver with a gold watch he hasn't asked for. But maybe the most extraordinary thing in all of this is that the runners just keep appearing. at Somalices. We've seen them through Callum Morgan, Finn Diver, Luke Kelly, Matthew Lavery, even the recent crop of Cormac Leheny, Thomas Coy, Ruick Sheridan, that keep coming and it just seems that Samaliches is just a conveyor belt of running talent. and it doesn't matter whether it's Melusque, Glen Gourmley, the Cave of Hill or the Waterworks. it doesn't matter if it's Franklin Field that the Samax boys are strutting their stuff. Whether it's America or Ireland, I just wanna thank each of you for giving up your time tonight to come in onto the podcast tonight. I think there's gonna be a lot of people are gonna be really interested in this story and it's been great getting to getting to know about your stories for a and Connor in particular and Joe. And I'm sure I'll probably see ya at some point on the roads. But if I see you throwing up, I'm just gonna leave you there, mate.
JoeMcA: No problem.