WEBVTT
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[SPEAKER_01]: On this week's show, the voyage to value with Jacob D'Albora from via Technic.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We're back.
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[SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Y'all recognize everybody who's sitting down with me today.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But if you haven't learned, we're all here doing things out in the industry and then come back to the contact crew and talking about it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so we're boomerang and Jacob out of the host seat and into the hot seat.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So we'll get to him in a minute.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Nathan Wood sitting down with me again.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You ready to put our homey on the
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[SPEAKER_00]: On the hot seat for the day, I checked the show notes five minutes before just to make sure I wasn't the guest.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I was wanting for a second who wasn't the guest.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, wait a minute here.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I was really to find out that I wasn't.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, excited to grill our friend Jacob here and find out what's going on.
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[SPEAKER_01]: If you feel any different sitting in what will be the interview.
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[SPEAKER_01]: E position.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Views is the interviewer.
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[SPEAKER_02]: The pressure is immense here.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean,
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[SPEAKER_02]: I've been a guest one other time and that was like welcoming you guys were like, oh, this is great.
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[SPEAKER_02]: We're so glad you're here.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Now it's like, all right.
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[SPEAKER_02]: prove your point.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I felt this kind of pressure.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So hey, you guys know this.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Follow us on the social media.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Follow us at YouTube YouTube.com.
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[SPEAKER_01]: For slash at the content crew.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And if you haven't been signed up for the newsletter, I know it was broken on the website.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you to the folks for telling me I got to fix.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So get yourself signed up because there was some interesting announcements this week.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, maybe this is a couple of weeks ago.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We'll have a show coming up on it, but the crew is on the move.
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[SPEAKER_01]: If you want to learn more, well, you're going to have to subscribe to find out.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So if you don't know via Technic, we're a VDC BAM consulting firm.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Danielle DiBuchio, Anton DiBuchio, both started this back in, in, and basically since then, we have grown to over three hundred employees.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So we started as the VDC people for, you know, designing construction, really GCs, really moved into trades, helping trades get better.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And then about five years ago, it was this turn to owners and this idea of
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[SPEAKER_02]: What can we do for the owner side of it all the industry?
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[SPEAKER_02]: I think there's always been that talk, right?
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[SPEAKER_02]: Everybody's always had this idea of like, oh, this could be used on the owner side.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It should be used and we'll get into it.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But what doesn't happen is the true idea or the thought process of how it actually is used and if that value is there.
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[SPEAKER_02]: My journey went from a couple other firms, business units, doing stuff, always focused on owners, but came to the attack neck to really lead the list owner services side.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So now for last three years, I've been here leading owner services, really pushing it, talking about industry.
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[SPEAKER_02]: If you haven't heard me talk about digital twin or facility management, you're probably not listening well.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm here to talk about it more.
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[SPEAKER_01]: If you go all the way back to the beginning of the technique, and I may have said this on the other show, my introduction to a lot of what was BIM was MCAA technology, and it was Danielle DiBunchio sitting up there and running through it at an identifiable and understandable level as they were
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[SPEAKER_01]: bringing it from, you know, the design and construction to the trades and really like connecting the dots since they had upstream experience.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that was what that room was in experiencing.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And for me, it was a connection point I needed.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, I always have this like, I mean, how many talks have we been in over the years and how many of them can you really remember?
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I can vividly remember that one where we were and her on stage and like,
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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we were like, we got to run off and record.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, no, I don't want to leave this.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I want to listen.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm learning.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I think what via technique has built and built thoughtfully Danielle has been very good about that over the years is awesome.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So it's great to see all of this under one roof.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I think provides a value.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm wondering, as you came in to fill out that value prop, how that was looking at kind of these other business units that you have, but then realizing they're all connected.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And it's interesting and I actually really appreciate the way you talk about that presentation.
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[SPEAKER_02]: We actually really do look at everything as a journey.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So really we talk about as a digital transformation journey.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But we always talk about it as we're on that journey with our clients.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So it doesn't matter if you're a GC, you're a trade or you're a architect engineer or owner.
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[SPEAKER_02]: We're on that journey with you.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So being able to simplify, being able to talk to it as points that people understand and grasp and understand the value is big, right?
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[SPEAKER_02]: We just don't want to talk over everybody and they say, well, we don't need that.
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[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to refine the way we are.
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[SPEAKER_02]: We want to be on that journey with them and really get them there.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So as we've built the idea of BAM and VDC and really supported the industry, we've known and seen owners try and use the value of BAM and VDC, but never really successfully.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think there's been several case studies of the delivery of rev at models to owners and or being able to use it during the project close out process.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, even Navis works was like, hey, we can put a hyperlink into the properties and they can use Navis works for the next twelve years.
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[SPEAKER_02]: None of that was really thought out well and it was ended up being a turn to fix it in the industry because owners were like, hey, can you do the standards for us?
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[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, well, what instead of just downloading Penn State, what, what do you want the standards to do for you?
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[SPEAKER_02]: And we started hearing more and more about these problems and what they were trying to do, but really just saying, hey, here's a rabbit file was not the answer.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It was not the way they could do it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: jump in real quick, but so those know he wasn't talking about, you know, downloading Penn State's Revit model, but if you guys don't know for those that don't, Penn State authored the BIM standards.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So it is a classic like it's used in this process.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So just just so people knew Nathan go ahead.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm the one that has to, you know, make sure us IT people are informed on what the heck you guys are talking about.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, and to further clarifies the Penn State BIM execution guide, which again, once filled out can become a standard or an attachment to a contract on a project.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But it's just a bunch of questions that they have to go through and answer.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And it's how do you answer those questions that becomes this this whole challenge.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I guess, Jacob, I mean, you brought a lot there and Danielle and I go way back, I think the technique is one of a few companies that have really perfected that services model of how do you take advantage of both local talent, but also that international kind of working twenty four hour cycle efficiency to really perfect that.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's interesting to make that move into the product world.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Is this the first time the technique has made that move into developing a product or
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[SPEAKER_00]: Because I know that's always a tough thing.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Others have done it before and in a back-to-away from it, yeah, what are your thoughts on that?
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[SPEAKER_02]: So it's not our first, but in the last three years, we've created two products.
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[SPEAKER_02]: We've had custom software development.
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[SPEAKER_02]: for probably six or seven years.
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[SPEAKER_02]: We then moved into a lessons learned platform called pre-cogs, which was a very internal tool.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And then we said, hey, maybe the industry wants this too.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And that's still available.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's still there.
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[SPEAKER_02]: We still, we have quite a few customers on it.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But it's not one of our big pushes.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's just us serving the industry.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Voyager, which is our digital twin solution, which we're going to talk about.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Here is our literal, I think, first, go to market.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Huge boom.
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[SPEAKER_02]: This could be sold as a standalone, you know, SaaS, or it can be sold with services.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It can be sold as a deliverable out of our services.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So it's our first product and I will say it is it's it's really interesting to bring product people in and then have all these services people sitting there like no this is how we did it all the time and it's like well stop doing it that way but it's good it's another learning moment for it but there's also like
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[SPEAKER_02]: where we were deploying these services for so many years to solve a problem and now we're trying to add a product into it.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So it's a different way of thinking because you don't continually want that product.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I guess, yeah, we're gonna keep going.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, but we have this debate off recording about standards.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And what even is a definition of standards?
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think right there, what you were just describing of products saying no services, you can't just do it X, Y, and Z way.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It needs to be this certain way for this system to work.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That is a standard, right?
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[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, what are those gotchas?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Those like, oh man, until everybody does these certain things a certain way,
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[SPEAKER_00]: We're never going to get those those measurable pieces of data that this industry needs and so it is a little bit like is the cart leading the horse is the chicken or the egg when it comes to data and AI because I want I don't think we have the right measurement set up and then too we're also working with crap data so it's like
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[SPEAKER_00]: How should we be measured and then how do you create systems and standards to funnel it that way?
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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's what you hit the beauty of having both services and a product is that you have a little bit more control over that I guess, right?
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[SPEAKER_02]: This is what I've seen over the years.
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[SPEAKER_02]: The past ten years, I've been in this field really partnering with a lot of software companies, really test driving, really pushing it.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And what I've seen is the bin groups that are like, hey, we can build a tool that's really cool.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And they could help with the owners is
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[SPEAKER_02]: Not serving the owners correctly, because they didn't know product.
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[SPEAKER_02]: They knew services.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But then the product side.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So you're talking about your FM management tools, your operating system tools for building operations.
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[SPEAKER_02]: We're like, oh, it would be really great to put a BIM component into our tool.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And they really didn't take it through.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And they basically could open like a architectural model with no MEP in it.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And it wouldn't load for about twenty minutes.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And they realized, oh crap, we don't get them.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And so there was this like miss in the market.
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[SPEAKER_02]: The value was like shown and understood, but not really defined on how to get there.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's where we took both sides of the coin and said, hey,
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[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to approach this, we understand them.
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[SPEAKER_02]: We understand products, but we also understand that we've been working with owners long enough.
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[SPEAKER_02]: What are they looking for?
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[SPEAKER_02]: What is they?
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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's the value in creating the product and it's going to be the value in telling the story and so I would urge you know the team at via technique to document the change and the change management and the philosophical changes because I think you're going to enlighten the industry a little bit because we rarely have those groups under one roof working together, but then also having to go through a fundamental
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[SPEAKER_01]: business model shift, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: We've said this for a long time in architecture.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's why generative design, things like test fit, et cetera, are so disruptive to it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's not their goal to be disruptive to the industry.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It was their goal to advance the industry.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But what they unintentionally did was disrupt the business model.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: They were billable hour people that saw things as billable hours.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Service people see things as billable hours and you're changing that for your own team.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And that's a powerful and uncomfortable change, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Because if I'm a BIM and VDC facility's management, like, if I'm managing that and all of a sudden you're telling me there's a product, are you replacing me?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Like, this is an interesting shift that we see in a lot of places.
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[SPEAKER_01]: That was to me the value of like diving into this discussion of, you know,
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[SPEAKER_01]: What did you learn as the group that knew the problems and what were some of the hurdles?
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[SPEAKER_01]: You had to get over to get your team to be like, no, we should do this.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And to talk to that point too is, you know, that idea and what you just mentioned exposes like the mindset of somebody, right?
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[SPEAKER_02]: If they see that opportunity to come in, it's a disruption to their company and they look at it and say, no, I don't want it.
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[SPEAKER_02]: because I'm not able to keep my business model the way it is versus seeing holy crap that could change our business model for the better.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I need to learn how to adopt that.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's just, that's the whole discussion of AI, right?
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[SPEAKER_02]: Right now it's like, it's gonna change your business model.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's gonna change what you're doing.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Are you willing to adopt it and actually grow as a business or are you willing to ignore it in ten years you're gonna be left behind?
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[SPEAKER_02]: very similar to a lot of construction that we've seen a construction technology we've seen over the last ten years too.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to push back a little bit here because I was actually just going to call with an owner's group yesterday, hopefully we'll be presenting at their their conferences fall, but we were talking about you know, and he was one of many that didn't necessarily have an affinity towards using a BIM tool for facilities management and my argument to him was well, there's a difference between BIM viewed
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[SPEAKER_00]: and bin sourced.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's just like Google Maps anything else.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Like you got different two D and three D and other views that you can be in.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's easiest for you.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But at the end of the day, the information is all relational.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's all sourced from the same model, right?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Which is really a computer model, not necessarily a three-dimensional model.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I think people will get a lot of times hung up on the three D aspect when we talk about bin and digital twin and all these things.
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[SPEAKER_00]: really what we're talking about is a relational mapping of all this information so that regardless of where and how you're viewing it, that you could drill into even more information from where resource because it was all connected together through some, you know, mathematical computer model.
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[SPEAKER_02]: This is where we've approached it differently.
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[SPEAKER_02]: This is my whole I literally went to the facility side and started like sitting with them talking with them learning about what they did and what I realized was.
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[SPEAKER_02]: all the ideas and construction and the technology being built and construction was just being pushed onto facility managers.
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[SPEAKER_02]: They were having to just take it and they didn't know what to do with it.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So they ended up with Navis files or Revit files and they were told, this is how you go look at your building.
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[SPEAKER_02]: That doesn't make sense.
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[SPEAKER_02]: That doesn't help them in any way.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I literally saw healthcare systems send their full facilities group for two weeks of Revit training.
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[SPEAKER_02]: and they never open rev it again afterwards.
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[SPEAKER_02]: There's just certain things.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So it's a matter of what does the facility side need and needs to be pulled in.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So you look at it from also a process standpoint of how they do their job.
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[SPEAKER_02]: can we enhance their process instead of replacing their process.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Because what we're currently doing with digital twins and the push for the past five years has been, hey, do this instead.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Like you should open this three D tool instead and then you can find what you're looking for.
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[SPEAKER_02]: What we've done with Voyager is hey, what you have done for the past twenty years has gone to an asset management list and said I need to find this piece of equipment.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you still have that capability.
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[SPEAKER_02]: That's actually the first thing you can still do.
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[SPEAKER_02]: This is what you want.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But once you get there, there's a button says view and three D. Boom, now you jump to your three D model.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You're not lost.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You're not actually confused.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You're not scared about it because you don't actually do anything afterwards.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But you're able to view it in three D. So now we're enhancing their process versus just saying, Hey, we're going to replace it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that came directly from your experience, sitting with them and understanding how they work.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And that's the value of perspective.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And it's the big miss in software, somebody invented it, three D tool.
16:49.816 --> 16:52.597
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's a hammer looking for a nail and everybody's a nail.
16:52.657 --> 17:00.522
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, no, you don't understand, I just got off the phone with somebody talking about this, that the industry has been so obsessed
17:01.142 --> 17:06.186
[SPEAKER_01]: with the solutions that we have to be obsessed with problems.
17:06.827 --> 17:17.235
[SPEAKER_01]: And we have to be obsessed with not being hung up on the solution in our own heads and designing and implementing things that work.
17:17.976 --> 17:22.319
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, someday you'll change this to a Voyager Data Twin.
17:23.185 --> 17:29.791
[SPEAKER_01]: because you're accessing the data through their systems, making it available, and then you're enhancing it.
17:30.351 --> 17:32.874
[SPEAKER_01]: And that enhancements the trigger, right?
17:32.994 --> 17:43.003
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're by the way, if you want to get somebody to do something new, it can't be wholeheartedly new from the beginning.
17:43.123 --> 17:45.124
[SPEAKER_01]: It's scary and it's ugly and
17:46.163 --> 17:47.644
[SPEAKER_01]: We all have businesses to run.
17:47.924 --> 17:49.546
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're getting in the way of my business.
17:49.646 --> 17:55.310
[SPEAKER_01]: If I'm in a facility's management and I have something that has to be done, I have a hospital.
17:55.330 --> 18:02.236
[SPEAKER_01]: I have filters that need to be changed because we're getting negatively impacted in our operating rooms.
18:02.656 --> 18:06.339
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't have frickin' time to go through your silly process.
18:06.720 --> 18:13.345
[SPEAKER_01]: However, if I go through my current process and I get the filter I want and then I go, see in three days.
18:15.360 --> 18:15.700
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wow.
18:15.800 --> 18:15.981
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
18:16.021 --> 18:16.681
[SPEAKER_01]: I can do that faster.
18:17.922 --> 18:18.103
[SPEAKER_01]: Go.
18:18.223 --> 18:18.683
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know what?
18:18.703 --> 18:21.586
[SPEAKER_01]: The first time I click it, if I go, I'm going to vomit.
18:22.106 --> 18:22.647
[SPEAKER_01]: That's okay.
18:22.807 --> 18:23.487
[SPEAKER_01]: I got what I needed.
18:23.848 --> 18:25.089
[SPEAKER_01]: I can run out and do what I was going to do.
18:25.409 --> 18:26.150
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the next time.
18:26.450 --> 18:33.296
[SPEAKER_01]: And then eventually it'll become second nature or the other person you're working with is like, oh, click the model button and I found that.
18:34.177 --> 18:42.202
[SPEAKER_01]: This is Jacob, I love the solution to a problem and then just guiding them to those next steps.
18:42.923 --> 18:50.268
[SPEAKER_00]: But even in that situation, I want to challenge Jacob because I know you probably have a good answer for this of what does keep the facility manager up at night.
18:50.608 --> 18:55.029
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I don't think like a little bit more of an efficient way of doing that is necessarily what keeps him up at night.
18:55.089 --> 18:59.870
[SPEAKER_00]: But I bet there is something that you know is information that the tool provides, whatever I'm really like.
18:59.910 --> 19:04.592
[SPEAKER_00]: What's what's kind of been the best storyline of what have you found is that that problem statement or value problem.
19:04.872 --> 19:05.772
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a few there.
19:06.732 --> 19:09.793
[SPEAKER_02]: One I'll go to and it relates to the data twin.
19:10.433 --> 19:16.820
[SPEAKER_02]: that Jeff just mentioned is, and this has been the band of my existence right now, it's the term single source of truth.
19:16.940 --> 19:17.881
[SPEAKER_02]: Because that's not real.
19:18.301 --> 19:19.482
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not going to exist.
19:20.063 --> 19:21.845
[SPEAKER_02]: There is not going to be a single source of truth.
19:22.045 --> 19:29.852
[SPEAKER_02]: But what keeps them up at night is not being able to react in the correct way.
19:30.073 --> 19:34.157
[SPEAKER_02]: And by that I mean is finding the correct information when they need it.
19:34.892 --> 19:41.953
[SPEAKER_02]: they have to go through several different sources to find data on maybe the same piece of equipment.
19:42.673 --> 19:54.495
[SPEAKER_02]: And so now instead of what people wanted was a single source of truth and wanted people to actually load everything to one spot and then other systems really exist as interoperability.
19:55.495 --> 20:03.857
[SPEAKER_02]: What we want to do is we want to make these facility management programs and platforms interoperable so that they're sharing information.
20:04.750 --> 20:11.715
[SPEAKER_02]: We then can also identify which ones are the authoritative source of information for that piece of equipment.
20:12.295 --> 20:14.357
[SPEAKER_02]: Piece of equipment might have nine attributes.
20:14.397 --> 20:20.601
[SPEAKER_02]: Might have six, but maybe two of those attributes come from one source to them come from a different source.
20:21.381 --> 20:27.526
[SPEAKER_02]: What we're doing with Voyager and what we're doing with digital twins is acting as a centralized access point.
20:28.287 --> 20:29.247
[SPEAKER_02]: to all that data.
20:29.768 --> 20:37.712
[SPEAKER_02]: So now you're not worried about, I do have to open this program, then I have to open this program, and then I still can't find it.
20:38.852 --> 20:41.113
[SPEAKER_02]: We're kind of compiling.
20:41.273 --> 20:42.854
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just interoperability.
20:43.434 --> 20:48.737
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not actually living in a single source, but we're actually allowed to access it from a single point.
20:49.732 --> 21:08.479
[SPEAKER_01]: right the single source of truth is false right my truth is my reality my perception so you can never tell me that there's a single source of truth because it doesn't exist and you hit on one of the things I am so passionate about right now for the industry for technology stop trying to win
21:09.605 --> 21:10.606
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not going to win.
21:10.726 --> 21:15.769
[SPEAKER_01]: No one rang to rule them all and start working together.
21:16.570 --> 21:16.750
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
21:16.770 --> 21:19.952
[SPEAKER_01]: Because what you have built is what I refer to as a data consumer.
21:21.306 --> 21:24.427
[SPEAKER_01]: You are a data consumer, you're compiling, you're making it accessible.
21:24.968 --> 21:39.613
[SPEAKER_01]: What everyone should realize about Voyager, and there's lots of other examples of these types of tools, but it is super powerful that data consumers actually drive data creators to be utilized more.
21:40.074 --> 21:45.636
[SPEAKER_01]: So if I open up my interoperability for whatever tool I have, to Voyager,
21:46.517 --> 21:51.079
[SPEAKER_01]: The people using it on the other end see more value.
21:51.900 --> 21:56.963
[SPEAKER_01]: And that drives more usage because my customer is getting value out of it.
21:57.603 --> 22:02.125
[SPEAKER_01]: And we can stop pointing fingers and what I loved was, you know, I've heard electrical.
22:02.186 --> 22:07.428
[SPEAKER_01]: I've heard mechanicals and others say, yeah, I handed over to him on a USB drive now and they just put it in the drawer and it's gone.
22:08.069 --> 22:10.390
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, that's because it's not being consumed.
22:11.933 --> 22:20.796
[SPEAKER_01]: So I mean, you've hit on some of the most powerful ways to really help the ecosystem connect.
22:20.976 --> 22:31.961
[SPEAKER_02]: The last point that we thought about and this is going back to the process, then enhancement of their current workflow is not everybody has the same workflow and you can't force everybody to have same workflow.
22:32.621 --> 22:34.982
[SPEAKER_02]: But if we have a tool and there is
22:36.075 --> 22:50.878
[SPEAKER_02]: a handful of different ways to find information that tool, whether you're going through documents, whether you're going through reality capture, whether you want to go through a three-year model, whether you want to go, but you're finding the same information no matter what path you take.
22:51.379 --> 22:56.420
[SPEAKER_02]: And that way you're actually going the most comfortable and, you know, I can find it.
22:56.580 --> 22:57.420
[SPEAKER_02]: I know what I need to get.
22:58.185 --> 23:00.386
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you learn from different ways on top of it.
23:00.446 --> 23:02.887
[SPEAKER_02]: And you have access to all those other modules.
23:03.407 --> 23:09.008
[SPEAKER_02]: So we've built Voyager as this modularized piece and all these different things are connected.
23:09.269 --> 23:12.530
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's connected all the way through the assets based on this.
23:12.650 --> 23:17.551
[SPEAKER_02]: So those assets then are also connected to your other systems.
23:18.131 --> 23:22.573
[SPEAKER_02]: So we are pulling performance from your BMS and we are pulling asset management from your CMS.
23:23.693 --> 23:26.035
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's the interoperability coming back to it.
23:26.195 --> 23:27.956
[SPEAKER_00]: The problem is what is this?
23:29.197 --> 23:30.058
[SPEAKER_00]: Something is broken.
23:30.098 --> 23:32.899
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going on and feel and I need to figure out what this thing is.
23:33.080 --> 23:38.043
[SPEAKER_00]: And there could be multiple different avenues that they're going to go down to identify what that thing is.
23:38.103 --> 23:41.365
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe there's a clearly identified label that they can go off of them.
23:41.385 --> 23:42.126
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe there's not.
23:42.566 --> 23:52.850
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, yeah, there's all different kinds of ways where then reality capture other ways with your camera on your phone to identify what that thing is or geolocate yourself within a building.
23:53.170 --> 23:59.932
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's where, again, you don't have to be using them, but yet without them, you couldn't have done that, right?
23:59.972 --> 24:01.252
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's that nuance.
24:01.973 --> 24:04.994
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think in any of these cases necessarily, they would want to be
24:05.834 --> 24:13.897
[SPEAKER_00]: in even some sort of whatever that is virtual reality, where you're moving the camera around and it's showing you an x-ray of what's behind there.
24:13.937 --> 24:16.337
[SPEAKER_00]: There's so few cases where that makes sense.
24:16.497 --> 24:17.758
[SPEAKER_00]: But that exists, so they're cool.
24:18.518 --> 24:22.419
[SPEAKER_00]: But really, the power is the fact that it was sourced from them.
24:23.099 --> 24:25.020
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is what Voyager gives you, right?
24:25.060 --> 24:26.541
[SPEAKER_00]: Because everything's coming from them.
24:27.321 --> 24:28.981
[SPEAKER_00]: And at some point, it has to be stored somewhere.
24:29.081 --> 24:33.643
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're becoming, at least, for the FM side of it, they're single source, hopefully, of truth.
24:34.683 --> 24:37.225
[SPEAKER_00]: BIM was sold incorrectly to owners.
24:38.526 --> 24:44.551
[SPEAKER_02]: The value prop of BIM is the starting spot of foundational data for your building.
24:44.571 --> 24:51.917
[SPEAKER_02]: It gives you a single starting spot that then can load into all these operations and then grow.
24:52.833 --> 25:00.961
[SPEAKER_02]: versus bin was always sold as a three tool and said, hey, owner, you should do it because it's in three D. That's so cool.
25:01.522 --> 25:10.151
[SPEAKER_02]: No, actually, it's a very unique opportunity to build a database from design and construction that then can power operations.
25:10.531 --> 25:15.693
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to go into that a little bit more because we've got a lot of folks listening that aren't on the FM side.
25:15.753 --> 25:17.853
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, be honest, don't necessarily care.
25:18.453 --> 25:23.755
[SPEAKER_01]: Why is this important and this ability for this stuff to land in Voyager?
25:23.835 --> 25:27.116
[SPEAKER_01]: How is this going to help trades, design, and construction?
25:27.176 --> 25:29.937
[SPEAKER_01]: How does this help the upward teams?
25:30.157 --> 25:31.177
[SPEAKER_01]: What's in it for them?
25:31.597 --> 25:33.158
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I mean,
25:34.092 --> 25:49.340
[SPEAKER_02]: is we're looking at this work now capturing also information from operations and we're now starting to understand how to building performs and it's not in a BMS system that we don't understand how to read or how to get information out of.
25:49.881 --> 25:58.105
[SPEAKER_02]: It's actually coming back into the bin and we can reuse it during design construction so that whole circle chart of life cycle
25:58.908 --> 26:21.011
[SPEAKER_02]: It actually can be used and I see a little bit of a downfall for some engineers in this because what happens if your design is now starting to be proved incorrect because we have this full lifecycle of how it performed and now we're looking at Nathan you mentioned it before standard of care like
26:21.599 --> 26:22.780
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you do it correctly?
26:23.200 --> 26:28.905
[SPEAKER_02]: The good thing is it's going to be thirty years before they come back and say, well, you didn't design the first building, correct?
26:28.945 --> 26:30.286
[SPEAKER_02]: Why is this working?
26:30.880 --> 26:40.466
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's where I think you can double down on, because the first example of being able to find the information is of lagging indicator because the issue happened, you didn't predict that issue happening.
26:40.846 --> 26:52.813
[SPEAKER_00]: This whole being able to feed, be a best data, and feed the operations data in is where you can start to get to those leading indicators that's more proactive, where you can actually know that that thing's gonna blow before it actually does.
26:52.973 --> 26:54.954
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, you're serving both purposes, right?
26:55.094 --> 26:56.695
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's the biggest thing.
26:56.795 --> 26:59.897
[SPEAKER_02]: So the value that's gonna have for facility managers
27:00.858 --> 27:07.179
[SPEAKER_02]: is being able to understand how your building is performing and catching things before it goes down.
27:08.022 --> 27:11.383
[SPEAKER_02]: Right now, you're looking at lagging indicators.
27:11.623 --> 27:15.825
[SPEAKER_02]: If a piece of equipment goes down, you look for the trend that happens before it.
27:16.085 --> 27:17.905
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you try and find that trend before.
27:18.345 --> 27:19.706
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a manual process.
27:20.346 --> 27:26.268
[SPEAKER_02]: But the thing is those data analysis through AI is going to become that indicator.
27:26.948 --> 27:32.690
[SPEAKER_02]: And what's really cool is your manufacturers train, carrier,
27:33.792 --> 27:43.785
[SPEAKER_02]: They're going to actually have that data on them because they're going to be collecting this across all their implementations, not just one client or one building.
27:44.366 --> 27:49.112
[SPEAKER_02]: So all of a sudden if it's in the southwest of the United States and they have two units go down.
27:49.697 --> 28:00.728
[SPEAKER_02]: They could possibly even look at the clients in the Southwest and say, hey, if you see this vibration pattern and it raises above this temperature, you're going to want to go change the filter before it falls apart.
28:00.948 --> 28:05.513
[SPEAKER_01]: See, you're nailing on something that I was going to challenge and you brought in the AI.
28:05.553 --> 28:06.173
[SPEAKER_01]: I was going to challenge.
28:06.233 --> 28:07.214
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not going to take thirty years.
28:08.175 --> 28:13.021
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's going to get faster and faster and faster, and we're going to get predictive.
28:13.061 --> 28:22.031
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the beauty of what AI can do for us is it can find patterns, it can consume large amounts of data, and it can create some of this for us.
28:22.672 --> 28:27.958
[SPEAKER_01]: My challenge to the trades, the engineers, the architects that you just referenced, that engineers design that was wrong.
28:28.458 --> 28:46.490
[SPEAKER_01]: Right now is your opportunity and your organization to create a culture of continuous improvement and be ready to welcome the rapid feedback and the ability to adapt to it because that's actually the strength of a business right we we almost have been wanting this in many cases I know
28:47.310 --> 28:50.472
[SPEAKER_01]: engineers, I know trades, I know architects that want to get better.
28:50.532 --> 28:53.374
[SPEAKER_01]: They want to know what works and what doesn't work.
28:53.414 --> 29:03.441
[SPEAKER_01]: And like you just said, it takes thirty years in some cases for us to, and we're talking about a system that doesn't communicate with the tools that we're using to design and build and construct, et cetera.
29:03.501 --> 29:05.482
[SPEAKER_01]: So now we're looping this together.
29:05.502 --> 29:09.925
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you can create a culture where continuous improvement is welcomed,
29:10.309 --> 29:15.012
[SPEAKER_01]: And you can get that feedback back and then bring it to it to improve every time.
29:15.032 --> 29:16.573
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no right.
29:16.773 --> 29:18.014
[SPEAKER_01]: It's never going to be done.
29:18.094 --> 29:19.915
[SPEAKER_01]: It's always going to get improved.
29:19.935 --> 29:21.757
[SPEAKER_01]: So you guys are really setting up.
29:22.457 --> 29:30.603
[SPEAKER_01]: But you're setting up a cultural shift that I think's going to be really interesting again to watch inside of the technique because you're actually going to do this to yourselves.
29:31.243 --> 29:31.783
[SPEAKER_01]: which is cool.
29:31.823 --> 29:31.963
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
29:32.364 --> 29:32.824
[SPEAKER_02]: Hundred percent.
29:33.384 --> 29:34.264
[SPEAKER_02]: It's okay.
29:34.425 --> 29:44.489
[SPEAKER_02]: There is so many external factors happening in a building that your design is not going to operate or perform the way that you designed it.
29:44.589 --> 29:45.330
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just not.
29:45.370 --> 29:46.870
[SPEAKER_02]: There's too many external factors.
29:47.271 --> 29:48.251
[SPEAKER_02]: There's human factors.
29:48.351 --> 29:51.773
[SPEAKER_02]: Person's going to be opening the window every day because they rather have fresh air.
29:52.273 --> 29:53.794
[SPEAKER_02]: That kills your whole performance.
29:54.730 --> 30:08.514
[SPEAKER_02]: Those things you can't control, so you've got to then just learn from what you were doing, get those feedback, understand it better and do it differently versus just trying to hide from what might be a claim in the future, right?
30:08.674 --> 30:09.235
[SPEAKER_00]: You went there.
30:09.315 --> 30:16.317
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I agree with everything you said, Jeff, but before you went on that rant, I already wrote down what's the incentive to be honest in the first place.
30:16.657 --> 30:22.439
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, project contracts, there's one thing to say as an organization, we want to feed information up, yes.
30:22.999 --> 30:35.023
[SPEAKER_00]: But so many of these challenges, especially in FM, that we're talking about are cross stakeholder, where it could be parsing engineers mistake, it could be partially an installer's mistake, it could be partially a GC sequence thing.
30:35.523 --> 30:42.446
[SPEAKER_00]: And nobody really at that point gets this hot potato and pointing fingers in all the sensitivities, because there's real dollars and cents involved at that point.
30:43.046 --> 30:56.817
[SPEAKER_00]: So if AI is really going to help us that quickly, we've got to figure out a way to both be honest with AI, but yet avoid this dilemma of I need to put my guard up because of the contract and financial incentives, which you can't argue against, right?
30:57.237 --> 31:06.304
[SPEAKER_02]: You're going to have to end up being a partner with that owner and make sure that you're there to support them when they need the next help or figure it out.
31:07.144 --> 31:09.947
[SPEAKER_02]: They're not going to have the time to chase you down and figure out
31:10.707 --> 31:11.288
[SPEAKER_02]: on what you did.
31:11.328 --> 31:19.236
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, unless the air handler fell through the roof, but it's, I mean, they're not going to chase it down based off of building performance.
31:19.256 --> 31:27.925
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the only trick you part is the owners that are public companies where their hands are tied by literally laws that force these types of contracts.
31:27.965 --> 31:29.987
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, that's like, man, I don't know how to help you there.
31:31.168 --> 31:35.630
[SPEAKER_00]: other than, like, you know, some other lobbyistic and, you know, make it a larger stink than us about this.
31:35.650 --> 31:44.294
[SPEAKER_00]: Because, you know, I had to get to some point of, you know, that we are stuck in the mud here on some of this, but without tools to help us sort through all that.
31:44.334 --> 31:46.134
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's what makes Voyager unique, right?
31:46.154 --> 31:54.398
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you understand where all those rocks on the road are along the way and how do you navigate those and create good data for a facility manager?
31:54.692 --> 32:06.381
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, but I'll challenge back there, Nathan, like I think the cliff that all those people aren't looking at is the cliff of people not having enough.
32:07.290 --> 32:12.294
[SPEAKER_01]: in the trades, in the industry to deliver what we have.
32:12.554 --> 32:28.906
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's going to drive a shift even in public companies of finding a way to work in more of a partnership model in order to source and get things done because we are headed for a disaster if we do not.
32:31.207 --> 32:47.681
[SPEAKER_01]: Nine times out of ten we hit the disaster ish and there's people who've pushed beyond it and done things that are maybe a little outside the lines but they're getting results and they go well how'd you do that and they go well we went outside the lines a little but this worked and then they go
32:48.748 --> 32:53.631
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's redraw and they take out the eraser and they redraw the line.
32:54.471 --> 32:58.273
[SPEAKER_01]: And it does not happen where we redraw the line first.
32:58.993 --> 33:05.237
[SPEAKER_01]: It does take people with partnerships and a risk tolerance to do it.
33:05.277 --> 33:11.820
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's what Voyager is offering is an idea of a way to minimize the risks.
33:12.100 --> 33:14.221
[SPEAKER_01]: If we just jump off the cliff and we don't check our
33:15.762 --> 33:18.548
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, pack to make sure our base jumping gear is correct.
33:18.608 --> 33:19.650
[SPEAKER_01]: Then we are stupid.
33:20.171 --> 33:22.415
[SPEAKER_01]: But if we sit down, we understand what's in there.
33:22.435 --> 33:23.898
[SPEAKER_01]: We make sure it's packed correctly.
33:24.199 --> 33:26.523
[SPEAKER_01]: And we do a little calculation.
33:26.563 --> 33:27.265
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we jump.
33:28.041 --> 33:30.663
[SPEAKER_01]: We're still in nut, you know, you're based jumping.
33:31.144 --> 33:36.989
[SPEAKER_01]: You're still nutball, but you're a calculated risk mitigated nutball.
33:37.510 --> 33:39.211
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's what we're saying here.
33:39.512 --> 33:42.574
[SPEAKER_01]: And but I also see like we're going into this really far area.
33:42.995 --> 33:47.359
[SPEAKER_01]: Like there's a ton of value in this today in the way the facilities operate.
33:48.020 --> 33:52.344
[SPEAKER_01]: And we don't have to have that foundational unstructured shift.
33:53.084 --> 33:59.107
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you're also built something that I think follows the rules of evolution and adoption as well.
33:59.327 --> 34:03.969
[SPEAKER_02]: Follows, it's a, it's a next step on the path.
34:05.069 --> 34:09.111
[SPEAKER_02]: I think there's a connection point coming from design and construction into operations.
34:09.991 --> 34:12.312
[SPEAKER_02]: That connection point is, is hell still.
34:12.452 --> 34:18.614
[SPEAKER_02]: The project close out is probably still one of the worst experiences for everybody on every project.
34:20.417 --> 34:24.099
[SPEAKER_02]: What is not realized is the value that is lost in that.
34:24.839 --> 34:30.682
[SPEAKER_02]: For facility managers, they go and hand enter all that information back into their new systems.
34:31.603 --> 34:35.905
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, okay, but it was actually populated in design construction.
34:36.005 --> 34:37.726
[SPEAKER_02]: Just nobody really looked at it correctly.
34:37.766 --> 34:38.706
[SPEAKER_02]: Nobody validated it.
34:39.407 --> 34:40.427
[SPEAKER_02]: And they walked away.
34:40.887 --> 34:43.529
[SPEAKER_02]: So can we fix this then?
34:43.589 --> 34:45.630
[SPEAKER_02]: So you're not having to redo it all over.
34:46.722 --> 34:48.083
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a matter of, do they want to?
34:48.623 --> 34:49.524
[SPEAKER_02]: There's also budgets.
34:49.784 --> 34:51.665
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, where does your budget come from?
34:52.105 --> 34:56.147
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a design and construction budget and then there's a facility operations budget.
34:56.868 --> 34:58.088
[SPEAKER_02]: Who's paying for what?
34:58.409 --> 35:08.434
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's really the owners that you're starting to see that is almost combining those or making those two departments work together that are open to this idea.
35:08.554 --> 35:11.396
[SPEAKER_02]: So they are, they're racing the line there and saying, all right.
35:12.163 --> 35:14.124
[SPEAKER_02]: capital projects, you have to work with them.
35:14.204 --> 35:15.384
[SPEAKER_02]: You have to get this done.
35:16.044 --> 35:18.625
[SPEAKER_02]: And facility managers are facility operations.
35:18.765 --> 35:23.947
[SPEAKER_02]: If you want somebody in design construction to check this data and make sure it's done right, you pay for it.
35:24.387 --> 35:27.148
[SPEAKER_02]: You pay for a consultant that sits over top and does it.
35:27.708 --> 35:33.232
[SPEAKER_02]: But the amount of money and the risk that they're mitigating to do that actually saves them time.
35:33.672 --> 35:39.617
[SPEAKER_02]: They can operate their building better and they also can ensure they get data hand over at Project Closeout.
35:39.857 --> 35:44.420
[SPEAKER_02]: There's hospitals waiting sixteen months to get Project Closeout after opening.
35:46.121 --> 35:46.942
[SPEAKER_02]: They're having to operate.
35:47.242 --> 35:50.665
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd love to dig more questions, but we got to wrap her up.
35:50.685 --> 35:53.247
[SPEAKER_01]: But there is a little another little announcement in here.
35:53.407 --> 36:00.092
[SPEAKER_01]: You may have taken a role here, too, in this process and kind of put your money where your mouth is, so to speak.
36:00.772 --> 36:04.555
[SPEAKER_01]: And you got a new role, not outside of your technique.
36:04.575 --> 36:05.736
[SPEAKER_01]: This is on top of what you do.
36:05.756 --> 36:06.997
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no.
36:07.097 --> 36:07.998
[SPEAKER_01]: This is on top of what you do.
36:08.298 --> 36:13.162
[SPEAKER_01]: So what, what, what announce to get, get the folks a little, a little, looksie.
36:13.588 --> 36:14.309
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely.
36:14.349 --> 36:22.741
[SPEAKER_02]: So National Institute of Building Sciences, and I have been appointed the Chair of Digital Twin Integration Committee.
36:23.542 --> 36:28.789
[SPEAKER_02]: And we are a committee underneath the design, the digital technology council.
36:29.670 --> 36:32.772
[SPEAKER_02]: And we are looking at how we advance digital twins.
36:33.552 --> 36:37.614
[SPEAKER_02]: We've put up a couple of papers out, and we're looking at the next steps.
36:37.754 --> 36:39.295
[SPEAKER_02]: And really, what can we solve?
36:39.395 --> 36:40.176
[SPEAKER_02]: What can we do?
36:40.496 --> 36:43.437
[SPEAKER_02]: But we're also, you know, we're trying to grow the membership, too.
36:43.577 --> 36:50.981
[SPEAKER_02]: So if anybody is listening that wants more information on it, or at least just to be part of the conversation, reach out to me.
36:52.582 --> 37:06.492
[SPEAKER_02]: going to grow more towards the actual field and what we're doing in the field, what we're doing on day to day and how we can solve this instead of just defining what interoperability means.
37:07.217 --> 37:07.637
[SPEAKER_01]: I love it.
37:08.057 --> 37:10.818
[SPEAKER_01]: It's putting again leaning into the organization.
37:10.858 --> 37:12.739
[SPEAKER_01]: If you guys don't know nibs, look back.
37:12.759 --> 37:13.900
[SPEAKER_01]: We've had episodes on it.
37:14.080 --> 37:19.642
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it is a, like I said, when the line needs to get redrawn, somebody's got to be their redraught.
37:19.782 --> 37:24.524
[SPEAKER_01]: And it is going to be most likely in the camp of nibs that will start to help.
37:24.544 --> 37:27.245
[SPEAKER_01]: But it'll be organizations like that coming together that help.
37:27.285 --> 37:29.626
[SPEAKER_01]: So appreciate you diving into that.
37:29.646 --> 37:30.546
[SPEAKER_01]: And if anybody wants to
37:30.986 --> 37:31.887
[SPEAKER_01]: Find out more about it.
37:31.907 --> 37:33.248
[SPEAKER_01]: You can hit any of us on social.
37:33.268 --> 37:35.409
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll connect you with Jacob or just find him on LinkedIn.
37:35.890 --> 37:39.452
[SPEAKER_01]: Message him and he'd be happy to tell you a little bit more.
37:40.213 --> 37:42.995
[SPEAKER_01]: Man, this was fun.
37:43.015 --> 37:44.536
[SPEAKER_01]: I miss sitting down with you.
37:44.556 --> 37:45.396
[SPEAKER_01]: Been too long.
37:45.716 --> 37:47.598
[SPEAKER_01]: You've been stuck in the Voyager tunnel.
37:48.378 --> 37:51.381
[SPEAKER_01]: So glad to see you brought your head up to come and talk to us about a Jacob.
37:51.401 --> 37:51.901
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks, my man.
37:52.471 --> 37:54.232
[SPEAKER_02]: I really appreciate a Jeff Nathan.
37:54.613 --> 37:55.493
[SPEAKER_02]: Great conversation.
37:55.513 --> 37:58.996
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure we'll actually keep continuing the conversation here soon.
37:59.176 --> 37:59.556
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, man.
37:59.796 --> 38:00.356
[SPEAKER_00]: I was impressed.
38:00.416 --> 38:01.777
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, very, very solid answers.
38:01.797 --> 38:02.758
[SPEAKER_00]: You you pass the test.
38:02.938 --> 38:03.298
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sold.
38:03.318 --> 38:04.439
[SPEAKER_02]: I appreciate it.
38:04.459 --> 38:11.104
[SPEAKER_01]: So you are now officially out of the hot seat as I take us out of the show.
38:11.980 --> 38:16.407
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for tuning in a day to geek out for our interview with Jacob Delbora.
38:16.467 --> 38:19.952
[SPEAKER_01]: The read all our new stories learn more about our guests and listen to this show.
38:20.232 --> 38:22.455
[SPEAKER_01]: Visit the contentcrew.com.
38:22.656 --> 38:24.418
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the contentcrew signing out.
38:24.539 --> 38:28.084
[SPEAKER_01]: Until next time, enjoy the ride and geek out.
00:00.752 --> 00:06.817
[SPEAKER_01]: On this week's show, the voyage to value with Jacob D'Albora from via Technic.
00:09.298 --> 00:10.018
[SPEAKER_01]: We're back.
00:10.619 --> 00:11.079
[SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
00:11.119 --> 00:14.621
[SPEAKER_01]: Y'all recognize everybody who's sitting down with me today.
00:15.501 --> 00:23.085
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you haven't learned, we're all here doing things out in the industry and then come back to the contact crew and talking about it.
00:23.525 --> 00:29.829
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we're boomerang and Jacob out of the host seat and into the hot seat.
00:30.289 --> 00:31.629
[SPEAKER_01]: So we'll get to him in a minute.
00:31.750 --> 00:34.351
[SPEAKER_01]: Nathan Wood sitting down with me again.
00:34.411 --> 00:35.612
[SPEAKER_01]: You ready to put our homey on the
00:36.652 --> 00:40.813
[SPEAKER_00]: On the hot seat for the day, I checked the show notes five minutes before just to make sure I wasn't the guest.
00:41.074 --> 00:43.054
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was wanting for a second who wasn't the guest.
00:43.074 --> 00:44.475
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, wait a minute here.
00:44.575 --> 00:46.515
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I was really to find out that I wasn't.
00:46.555 --> 00:50.917
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, excited to grill our friend Jacob here and find out what's going on.
00:50.957 --> 00:55.018
[SPEAKER_01]: If you feel any different sitting in what will be the interview.
00:55.358 --> 00:56.299
[SPEAKER_01]: E position.
00:56.739 --> 00:58.139
[SPEAKER_02]: Views is the interviewer.
00:58.439 --> 00:59.960
[SPEAKER_02]: The pressure is immense here.
01:00.180 --> 01:00.480
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean,
01:01.538 --> 01:06.910
[SPEAKER_02]: I've been a guest one other time and that was like welcoming you guys were like, oh, this is great.
01:06.930 --> 01:08.233
[SPEAKER_02]: We're so glad you're here.
01:08.313 --> 01:08.674
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
01:09.055 --> 01:10.158
[SPEAKER_02]: Now it's like, all right.
01:11.138 --> 01:11.779
[SPEAKER_02]: prove your point.
01:12.980 --> 01:14.061
[SPEAKER_00]: I felt this kind of pressure.
01:14.081 --> 01:16.223
[SPEAKER_01]: So hey, you guys know this.
01:16.383 --> 01:18.425
[SPEAKER_01]: Follow us on the social media.
01:18.525 --> 01:21.527
[SPEAKER_01]: Follow us at YouTube YouTube.com.
01:21.547 --> 01:24.010
[SPEAKER_01]: For slash at the content crew.
01:24.670 --> 01:28.954
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you haven't been signed up for the newsletter, I know it was broken on the website.
01:29.034 --> 01:31.036
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you to the folks for telling me I got to fix.
01:31.456 --> 01:35.580
[SPEAKER_01]: So get yourself signed up because there was some interesting announcements this week.
01:36.060 --> 01:37.482
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, maybe this is a couple of weeks ago.
01:38.550 --> 01:42.432
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll have a show coming up on it, but the crew is on the move.
01:42.632 --> 01:46.273
[SPEAKER_01]: If you want to learn more, well, you're going to have to subscribe to find out.
01:46.673 --> 01:47.394
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely.
01:47.454 --> 01:52.456
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you don't know via Technic, we're a VDC BAM consulting firm.
01:53.046 --> 02:01.891
[SPEAKER_02]: Danielle DiBuchio, Anton DiBuchio, both started this back in, in, and basically since then, we have grown to over three hundred employees.
02:02.591 --> 02:14.237
[SPEAKER_02]: So we started as the VDC people for, you know, designing construction, really GCs, really moved into trades, helping trades get better.
02:14.657 --> 02:19.460
[SPEAKER_02]: And then about five years ago, it was this turn to owners and this idea of
02:20.575 --> 02:22.836
[SPEAKER_02]: What can we do for the owner side of it all the industry?
02:23.096 --> 02:25.418
[SPEAKER_02]: I think there's always been that talk, right?
02:25.558 --> 02:30.060
[SPEAKER_02]: Everybody's always had this idea of like, oh, this could be used on the owner side.
02:30.100 --> 02:33.082
[SPEAKER_02]: It should be used and we'll get into it.
02:33.142 --> 02:41.886
[SPEAKER_02]: But what doesn't happen is the true idea or the thought process of how it actually is used and if that value is there.
02:43.869 --> 02:55.998
[SPEAKER_02]: My journey went from a couple other firms, business units, doing stuff, always focused on owners, but came to the attack neck to really lead the list owner services side.
02:56.598 --> 03:03.403
[SPEAKER_02]: So now for last three years, I've been here leading owner services, really pushing it, talking about industry.
03:03.463 --> 03:09.648
[SPEAKER_02]: If you haven't heard me talk about digital twin or facility management, you're probably not listening well.
03:09.908 --> 03:12.250
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm here to talk about it more.
03:12.682 --> 03:30.802
[SPEAKER_01]: If you go all the way back to the beginning of the technique, and I may have said this on the other show, my introduction to a lot of what was BIM was MCAA technology, and it was Danielle DiBunchio sitting up there and running through it at an identifiable and understandable level as they were
03:31.302 --> 03:40.104
[SPEAKER_01]: bringing it from, you know, the design and construction to the trades and really like connecting the dots since they had upstream experience.
03:40.564 --> 03:42.684
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that was what that room was in experiencing.
03:42.724 --> 03:45.865
[SPEAKER_01]: And for me, it was a connection point I needed.
03:46.005 --> 03:52.407
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, I always have this like, I mean, how many talks have we been in over the years and how many of them can you really remember?
03:52.947 --> 03:58.668
[SPEAKER_01]: And I can vividly remember that one where we were and her on stage and like,
03:59.668 --> 04:01.790
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we were like, we got to run off and record.
04:01.830 --> 04:03.091
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, no, I don't want to leave this.
04:03.151 --> 04:03.831
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to listen.
04:03.891 --> 04:04.412
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm learning.
04:04.572 --> 04:12.037
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think what via technique has built and built thoughtfully Danielle has been very good about that over the years is awesome.
04:12.057 --> 04:15.280
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's great to see all of this under one roof.
04:15.360 --> 04:16.801
[SPEAKER_01]: I think provides a value.
04:17.774 --> 04:28.762
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm wondering, as you came in to fill out that value prop, how that was looking at kind of these other business units that you have, but then realizing they're all connected.
04:28.882 --> 04:34.926
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's interesting and I actually really appreciate the way you talk about that presentation.
04:35.967 --> 04:38.971
[SPEAKER_02]: We actually really do look at everything as a journey.
04:39.091 --> 04:42.615
[SPEAKER_02]: So really we talk about as a digital transformation journey.
04:43.096 --> 04:46.660
[SPEAKER_02]: But we always talk about it as we're on that journey with our clients.
04:46.720 --> 04:52.106
[SPEAKER_02]: So it doesn't matter if you're a GC, you're a trade or you're a architect engineer or owner.
04:52.818 --> 04:54.340
[SPEAKER_02]: We're on that journey with you.
04:54.480 --> 05:03.630
[SPEAKER_02]: So being able to simplify, being able to talk to it as points that people understand and grasp and understand the value is big, right?
05:03.690 --> 05:07.834
[SPEAKER_02]: We just don't want to talk over everybody and they say, well, we don't need that.
05:08.575 --> 05:09.997
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to refine the way we are.
05:10.622 --> 05:13.604
[SPEAKER_02]: We want to be on that journey with them and really get them there.
05:13.764 --> 05:27.331
[SPEAKER_02]: So as we've built the idea of BAM and VDC and really supported the industry, we've known and seen owners try and use the value of BAM and VDC, but never really successfully.
05:27.371 --> 05:37.997
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think there's been several case studies of the delivery of rev at models to owners and or being able to use it during the project close out process.
05:39.033 --> 05:46.278
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, even Navis works was like, hey, we can put a hyperlink into the properties and they can use Navis works for the next twelve years.
05:47.338 --> 05:57.125
[SPEAKER_02]: None of that was really thought out well and it was ended up being a turn to fix it in the industry because owners were like, hey, can you do the standards for us?
05:57.987 --> 06:04.070
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, well, what instead of just downloading Penn State, what, what do you want the standards to do for you?
06:04.570 --> 06:14.255
[SPEAKER_02]: And we started hearing more and more about these problems and what they were trying to do, but really just saying, hey, here's a rabbit file was not the answer.
06:14.275 --> 06:15.556
[SPEAKER_02]: It was not the way they could do it.
06:15.936 --> 06:26.560
[SPEAKER_01]: jump in real quick, but so those know he wasn't talking about, you know, downloading Penn State's Revit model, but if you guys don't know for those that don't, Penn State authored the BIM standards.
06:27.200 --> 06:31.422
[SPEAKER_01]: So it is a classic like it's used in this process.
06:31.442 --> 06:33.683
[SPEAKER_01]: So just just so people knew Nathan go ahead.
06:34.143 --> 06:39.625
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm the one that has to, you know, make sure us IT people are informed on what the heck you guys are talking about.
06:39.809 --> 06:50.372
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, and to further clarifies the Penn State BIM execution guide, which again, once filled out can become a standard or an attachment to a contract on a project.
06:50.472 --> 06:53.974
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's just a bunch of questions that they have to go through and answer.
06:54.494 --> 06:57.835
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's how do you answer those questions that becomes this this whole challenge.
06:58.875 --> 07:16.540
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess, Jacob, I mean, you brought a lot there and Danielle and I go way back, I think the technique is one of a few companies that have really perfected that services model of how do you take advantage of both local talent, but also that international kind of working twenty four hour cycle efficiency to really perfect that.
07:16.660 --> 07:20.401
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's interesting to make that move into the product world.
07:20.481 --> 07:25.062
[SPEAKER_00]: Is this the first time the technique has made that move into developing a product or
07:26.022 --> 07:27.544
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I know that's always a tough thing.
07:27.724 --> 07:31.907
[SPEAKER_00]: Others have done it before and in a back-to-away from it, yeah, what are your thoughts on that?
07:32.467 --> 07:37.611
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's not our first, but in the last three years, we've created two products.
07:38.292 --> 07:40.534
[SPEAKER_02]: We've had custom software development.
07:41.254 --> 07:44.017
[SPEAKER_02]: for probably six or seven years.
07:44.417 --> 07:50.884
[SPEAKER_02]: We then moved into a lessons learned platform called pre-cogs, which was a very internal tool.
07:51.084 --> 07:53.266
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we said, hey, maybe the industry wants this too.
07:53.807 --> 07:54.787
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's still available.
07:54.848 --> 07:56.049
[SPEAKER_02]: It's still there.
07:56.189 --> 07:58.751
[SPEAKER_02]: We still, we have quite a few customers on it.
07:59.352 --> 08:02.075
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's not one of our big pushes.
08:02.155 --> 08:04.177
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just us serving the industry.
08:05.206 --> 08:08.889
[SPEAKER_02]: Voyager, which is our digital twin solution, which we're going to talk about.
08:08.929 --> 08:12.992
[SPEAKER_02]: Here is our literal, I think, first, go to market.
08:13.573 --> 08:14.394
[SPEAKER_02]: Huge boom.
08:14.434 --> 08:21.079
[SPEAKER_02]: This could be sold as a standalone, you know, SaaS, or it can be sold with services.
08:21.219 --> 08:24.001
[SPEAKER_02]: It can be sold as a deliverable out of our services.
08:24.942 --> 08:43.525
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's our first product and I will say it is it's it's really interesting to bring product people in and then have all these services people sitting there like no this is how we did it all the time and it's like well stop doing it that way but it's good it's another learning moment for it but there's also like
08:43.925 --> 08:51.212
[SPEAKER_02]: where we were deploying these services for so many years to solve a problem and now we're trying to add a product into it.
08:51.813 --> 08:56.458
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's a different way of thinking because you don't continually want that product.
08:57.107 --> 08:59.228
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I guess, yeah, we're gonna keep going.
08:59.808 --> 09:04.689
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, but we have this debate off recording about standards.
09:04.769 --> 09:07.330
[SPEAKER_00]: And what even is a definition of standards?
09:07.350 --> 09:14.392
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think right there, what you were just describing of products saying no services, you can't just do it X, Y, and Z way.
09:14.592 --> 09:17.773
[SPEAKER_00]: It needs to be this certain way for this system to work.
09:18.033 --> 09:19.213
[SPEAKER_00]: That is a standard, right?
09:19.793 --> 09:21.894
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, what are those gotchas?
09:21.954 --> 09:25.695
[SPEAKER_00]: Those like, oh man, until everybody does these certain things a certain way,
09:26.575 --> 09:41.693
[SPEAKER_00]: We're never going to get those those measurable pieces of data that this industry needs and so it is a little bit like is the cart leading the horse is the chicken or the egg when it comes to data and AI because I want I don't think we have the right measurement set up and then too we're also working with crap data so it's like
09:42.193 --> 09:46.236
[SPEAKER_00]: How should we be measured and then how do you create systems and standards to funnel it that way?
09:46.256 --> 09:52.300
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's what you hit the beauty of having both services and a product is that you have a little bit more control over that I guess, right?
09:52.580 --> 09:54.521
[SPEAKER_02]: This is what I've seen over the years.
09:54.581 --> 10:00.765
[SPEAKER_02]: The past ten years, I've been in this field really partnering with a lot of software companies, really test driving, really pushing it.
10:01.345 --> 10:07.830
[SPEAKER_02]: And what I've seen is the bin groups that are like, hey, we can build a tool that's really cool.
10:08.650 --> 10:10.511
[SPEAKER_02]: And they could help with the owners is
10:11.805 --> 10:14.527
[SPEAKER_02]: Not serving the owners correctly, because they didn't know product.
10:14.767 --> 10:15.927
[SPEAKER_02]: They knew services.
10:16.448 --> 10:17.728
[SPEAKER_02]: But then the product side.
10:17.788 --> 10:22.891
[SPEAKER_02]: So you're talking about your FM management tools, your operating system tools for building operations.
10:23.311 --> 10:27.834
[SPEAKER_02]: We're like, oh, it would be really great to put a BIM component into our tool.
10:28.860 --> 10:30.541
[SPEAKER_02]: And they really didn't take it through.
10:30.561 --> 10:35.103
[SPEAKER_02]: And they basically could open like a architectural model with no MEP in it.
10:35.643 --> 10:37.544
[SPEAKER_02]: And it wouldn't load for about twenty minutes.
10:38.384 --> 10:41.085
[SPEAKER_02]: And they realized, oh crap, we don't get them.
10:41.786 --> 10:44.667
[SPEAKER_02]: And so there was this like miss in the market.
10:45.107 --> 10:50.690
[SPEAKER_02]: The value was like shown and understood, but not really defined on how to get there.
10:51.010 --> 10:55.972
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's where we took both sides of the coin and said, hey,
10:57.176 --> 10:59.502
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to approach this, we understand them.
11:00.043 --> 11:04.473
[SPEAKER_02]: We understand products, but we also understand that we've been working with owners long enough.
11:05.616 --> 11:07.216
[SPEAKER_02]: What are they looking for?
11:07.296 --> 11:07.957
[SPEAKER_02]: What is they?
11:07.997 --> 11:34.683
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's the value in creating the product and it's going to be the value in telling the story and so I would urge you know the team at via technique to document the change and the change management and the philosophical changes because I think you're going to enlighten the industry a little bit because we rarely have those groups under one roof working together, but then also having to go through a fundamental
11:35.703 --> 11:37.544
[SPEAKER_01]: business model shift, right?
11:37.584 --> 11:39.604
[SPEAKER_01]: We've said this for a long time in architecture.
11:39.644 --> 11:46.086
[SPEAKER_01]: It's why generative design, things like test fit, et cetera, are so disruptive to it.
11:46.146 --> 11:48.627
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not their goal to be disruptive to the industry.
11:48.687 --> 11:51.368
[SPEAKER_01]: It was their goal to advance the industry.
11:51.408 --> 11:56.910
[SPEAKER_01]: But what they unintentionally did was disrupt the business model.
11:57.512 --> 11:57.733
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
11:57.833 --> 12:01.600
[SPEAKER_01]: They were billable hour people that saw things as billable hours.
12:02.001 --> 12:07.652
[SPEAKER_01]: Service people see things as billable hours and you're changing that for your own team.
12:08.237 --> 12:11.600
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's a powerful and uncomfortable change, right?
12:11.640 --> 12:20.146
[SPEAKER_01]: Because if I'm a BIM and VDC facility's management, like, if I'm managing that and all of a sudden you're telling me there's a product, are you replacing me?
12:20.606 --> 12:24.929
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, this is an interesting shift that we see in a lot of places.
12:24.989 --> 12:30.133
[SPEAKER_01]: That was to me the value of like diving into this discussion of, you know,
12:31.648 --> 12:38.412
[SPEAKER_01]: What did you learn as the group that knew the problems and what were some of the hurdles?
12:38.872 --> 12:41.934
[SPEAKER_01]: You had to get over to get your team to be like, no, we should do this.
12:42.494 --> 12:51.720
[SPEAKER_02]: And to talk to that point too is, you know, that idea and what you just mentioned exposes like the mindset of somebody, right?
12:52.360 --> 12:59.304
[SPEAKER_02]: If they see that opportunity to come in, it's a disruption to their company and they look at it and say, no, I don't want it.
13:00.472 --> 13:09.058
[SPEAKER_02]: because I'm not able to keep my business model the way it is versus seeing holy crap that could change our business model for the better.
13:10.219 --> 13:12.000
[SPEAKER_02]: I need to learn how to adopt that.
13:12.140 --> 13:16.423
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's just, that's the whole discussion of AI, right?
13:16.583 --> 13:20.365
[SPEAKER_02]: Right now it's like, it's gonna change your business model.
13:20.526 --> 13:21.987
[SPEAKER_02]: It's gonna change what you're doing.
13:22.867 --> 13:29.992
[SPEAKER_02]: Are you willing to adopt it and actually grow as a business or are you willing to ignore it in ten years you're gonna be left behind?
13:30.830 --> 13:35.994
[SPEAKER_02]: very similar to a lot of construction that we've seen a construction technology we've seen over the last ten years too.
13:36.254 --> 13:55.227
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to push back a little bit here because I was actually just going to call with an owner's group yesterday, hopefully we'll be presenting at their their conferences fall, but we were talking about you know, and he was one of many that didn't necessarily have an affinity towards using a BIM tool for facilities management and my argument to him was well, there's a difference between BIM viewed
13:55.747 --> 13:56.548
[SPEAKER_00]: and bin sourced.
13:56.808 --> 13:58.749
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's just like Google Maps anything else.
13:58.769 --> 14:02.292
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you got different two D and three D and other views that you can be in.
14:02.312 --> 14:03.593
[SPEAKER_00]: That's easiest for you.
14:03.793 --> 14:06.816
[SPEAKER_00]: But at the end of the day, the information is all relational.
14:06.856 --> 14:09.818
[SPEAKER_00]: It's all sourced from the same model, right?
14:09.858 --> 14:14.021
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is really a computer model, not necessarily a three-dimensional model.
14:14.141 --> 14:20.727
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think people will get a lot of times hung up on the three D aspect when we talk about bin and digital twin and all these things.
14:21.327 --> 14:39.335
[SPEAKER_00]: really what we're talking about is a relational mapping of all this information so that regardless of where and how you're viewing it, that you could drill into even more information from where resource because it was all connected together through some, you know, mathematical computer model.
14:40.075 --> 14:43.017
[SPEAKER_02]: This is where we've approached it differently.
14:43.497 --> 14:54.543
[SPEAKER_02]: This is my whole I literally went to the facility side and started like sitting with them talking with them learning about what they did and what I realized was.
14:55.195 --> 15:02.539
[SPEAKER_02]: all the ideas and construction and the technology being built and construction was just being pushed onto facility managers.
15:03.160 --> 15:06.422
[SPEAKER_02]: They were having to just take it and they didn't know what to do with it.
15:06.502 --> 15:12.765
[SPEAKER_02]: So they ended up with Navis files or Revit files and they were told, this is how you go look at your building.
15:12.825 --> 15:13.926
[SPEAKER_02]: That doesn't make sense.
15:13.966 --> 15:15.687
[SPEAKER_02]: That doesn't help them in any way.
15:16.247 --> 15:21.811
[SPEAKER_02]: I literally saw healthcare systems send their full facilities group for two weeks of Revit training.
15:22.681 --> 15:25.324
[SPEAKER_02]: and they never open rev it again afterwards.
15:26.305 --> 15:27.326
[SPEAKER_02]: There's just certain things.
15:27.366 --> 15:32.611
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's a matter of what does the facility side need and needs to be pulled in.
15:33.111 --> 15:38.677
[SPEAKER_02]: So you look at it from also a process standpoint of how they do their job.
15:39.587 --> 15:45.288
[SPEAKER_02]: can we enhance their process instead of replacing their process.
15:45.969 --> 15:52.570
[SPEAKER_02]: Because what we're currently doing with digital twins and the push for the past five years has been, hey, do this instead.
15:53.371 --> 15:58.812
[SPEAKER_02]: Like you should open this three D tool instead and then you can find what you're looking for.
15:59.708 --> 16:09.855
[SPEAKER_02]: What we've done with Voyager is hey, what you have done for the past twenty years has gone to an asset management list and said I need to find this piece of equipment.
16:10.738 --> 16:12.918
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you still have that capability.
16:12.958 --> 16:14.979
[SPEAKER_02]: That's actually the first thing you can still do.
16:15.119 --> 16:16.059
[SPEAKER_02]: This is what you want.
16:16.659 --> 16:22.140
[SPEAKER_02]: But once you get there, there's a button says view and three D. Boom, now you jump to your three D model.
16:22.520 --> 16:23.361
[SPEAKER_02]: You're not lost.
16:23.621 --> 16:24.881
[SPEAKER_02]: You're not actually confused.
16:24.901 --> 16:27.361
[SPEAKER_02]: You're not scared about it because you don't actually do anything afterwards.
16:27.902 --> 16:34.663
[SPEAKER_02]: But you're able to view it in three D. So now we're enhancing their process versus just saying, Hey, we're going to replace it.
16:35.187 --> 16:41.010
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that came directly from your experience, sitting with them and understanding how they work.
16:41.070 --> 16:44.112
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's the value of perspective.
16:44.753 --> 16:49.435
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's the big miss in software, somebody invented it, three D tool.
16:49.816 --> 16:52.597
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's a hammer looking for a nail and everybody's a nail.
16:52.657 --> 17:00.522
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, no, you don't understand, I just got off the phone with somebody talking about this, that the industry has been so obsessed
17:01.142 --> 17:06.186
[SPEAKER_01]: with the solutions that we have to be obsessed with problems.
17:06.827 --> 17:17.235
[SPEAKER_01]: And we have to be obsessed with not being hung up on the solution in our own heads and designing and implementing things that work.
17:17.976 --> 17:22.319
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, someday you'll change this to a Voyager Data Twin.
17:23.185 --> 17:29.791
[SPEAKER_01]: because you're accessing the data through their systems, making it available, and then you're enhancing it.
17:30.351 --> 17:32.874
[SPEAKER_01]: And that enhancements the trigger, right?
17:32.994 --> 17:43.003
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're by the way, if you want to get somebody to do something new, it can't be wholeheartedly new from the beginning.
17:43.123 --> 17:45.124
[SPEAKER_01]: It's scary and it's ugly and
17:46.163 --> 17:47.644
[SPEAKER_01]: We all have businesses to run.
17:47.924 --> 17:49.546
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're getting in the way of my business.
17:49.646 --> 17:55.310
[SPEAKER_01]: If I'm in a facility's management and I have something that has to be done, I have a hospital.
17:55.330 --> 18:02.236
[SPEAKER_01]: I have filters that need to be changed because we're getting negatively impacted in our operating rooms.
18:02.656 --> 18:06.339
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't have frickin' time to go through your silly process.
18:06.720 --> 18:13.345
[SPEAKER_01]: However, if I go through my current process and I get the filter I want and then I go, see in three days.
18:15.360 --> 18:15.700
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wow.
18:15.800 --> 18:15.981
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
18:16.021 --> 18:16.681
[SPEAKER_01]: I can do that faster.
18:17.922 --> 18:18.103
[SPEAKER_01]: Go.
18:18.223 --> 18:18.683
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know what?
18:18.703 --> 18:21.586
[SPEAKER_01]: The first time I click it, if I go, I'm going to vomit.
18:22.106 --> 18:22.647
[SPEAKER_01]: That's okay.
18:22.807 --> 18:23.487
[SPEAKER_01]: I got what I needed.
18:23.848 --> 18:25.089
[SPEAKER_01]: I can run out and do what I was going to do.
18:25.409 --> 18:26.150
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the next time.
18:26.450 --> 18:33.296
[SPEAKER_01]: And then eventually it'll become second nature or the other person you're working with is like, oh, click the model button and I found that.
18:34.177 --> 18:42.202
[SPEAKER_01]: This is Jacob, I love the solution to a problem and then just guiding them to those next steps.
18:42.923 --> 18:50.268
[SPEAKER_00]: But even in that situation, I want to challenge Jacob because I know you probably have a good answer for this of what does keep the facility manager up at night.
18:50.608 --> 18:55.029
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I don't think like a little bit more of an efficient way of doing that is necessarily what keeps him up at night.
18:55.089 --> 18:59.870
[SPEAKER_00]: But I bet there is something that you know is information that the tool provides, whatever I'm really like.
18:59.910 --> 19:04.592
[SPEAKER_00]: What's what's kind of been the best storyline of what have you found is that that problem statement or value problem.
19:04.872 --> 19:05.772
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a few there.
19:06.732 --> 19:09.793
[SPEAKER_02]: One I'll go to and it relates to the data twin.
19:10.433 --> 19:16.820
[SPEAKER_02]: that Jeff just mentioned is, and this has been the band of my existence right now, it's the term single source of truth.
19:16.940 --> 19:17.881
[SPEAKER_02]: Because that's not real.
19:18.301 --> 19:19.482
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not going to exist.
19:20.063 --> 19:21.845
[SPEAKER_02]: There is not going to be a single source of truth.
19:22.045 --> 19:29.852
[SPEAKER_02]: But what keeps them up at night is not being able to react in the correct way.
19:30.073 --> 19:34.157
[SPEAKER_02]: And by that I mean is finding the correct information when they need it.
19:34.892 --> 19:41.953
[SPEAKER_02]: they have to go through several different sources to find data on maybe the same piece of equipment.
19:42.673 --> 19:54.495
[SPEAKER_02]: And so now instead of what people wanted was a single source of truth and wanted people to actually load everything to one spot and then other systems really exist as interoperability.
19:55.495 --> 20:03.857
[SPEAKER_02]: What we want to do is we want to make these facility management programs and platforms interoperable so that they're sharing information.
20:04.750 --> 20:11.715
[SPEAKER_02]: We then can also identify which ones are the authoritative source of information for that piece of equipment.
20:12.295 --> 20:14.357
[SPEAKER_02]: Piece of equipment might have nine attributes.
20:14.397 --> 20:20.601
[SPEAKER_02]: Might have six, but maybe two of those attributes come from one source to them come from a different source.
20:21.381 --> 20:27.526
[SPEAKER_02]: What we're doing with Voyager and what we're doing with digital twins is acting as a centralized access point.
20:28.287 --> 20:29.247
[SPEAKER_02]: to all that data.
20:29.768 --> 20:37.712
[SPEAKER_02]: So now you're not worried about, I do have to open this program, then I have to open this program, and then I still can't find it.
20:38.852 --> 20:41.113
[SPEAKER_02]: We're kind of compiling.
20:41.273 --> 20:42.854
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just interoperability.
20:43.434 --> 20:48.737
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not actually living in a single source, but we're actually allowed to access it from a single point.
20:49.732 --> 21:08.479
[SPEAKER_01]: right the single source of truth is false right my truth is my reality my perception so you can never tell me that there's a single source of truth because it doesn't exist and you hit on one of the things I am so passionate about right now for the industry for technology stop trying to win
21:09.605 --> 21:10.606
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not going to win.
21:10.726 --> 21:15.769
[SPEAKER_01]: No one rang to rule them all and start working together.
21:16.570 --> 21:16.750
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
21:16.770 --> 21:19.952
[SPEAKER_01]: Because what you have built is what I refer to as a data consumer.
21:21.306 --> 21:24.427
[SPEAKER_01]: You are a data consumer, you're compiling, you're making it accessible.
21:24.968 --> 21:39.613
[SPEAKER_01]: What everyone should realize about Voyager, and there's lots of other examples of these types of tools, but it is super powerful that data consumers actually drive data creators to be utilized more.
21:40.074 --> 21:45.636
[SPEAKER_01]: So if I open up my interoperability for whatever tool I have, to Voyager,
21:46.517 --> 21:51.079
[SPEAKER_01]: The people using it on the other end see more value.
21:51.900 --> 21:56.963
[SPEAKER_01]: And that drives more usage because my customer is getting value out of it.
21:57.603 --> 22:02.125
[SPEAKER_01]: And we can stop pointing fingers and what I loved was, you know, I've heard electrical.
22:02.186 --> 22:07.428
[SPEAKER_01]: I've heard mechanicals and others say, yeah, I handed over to him on a USB drive now and they just put it in the drawer and it's gone.
22:08.069 --> 22:10.390
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, that's because it's not being consumed.
22:11.933 --> 22:20.796
[SPEAKER_01]: So I mean, you've hit on some of the most powerful ways to really help the ecosystem connect.
22:20.976 --> 22:31.961
[SPEAKER_02]: The last point that we thought about and this is going back to the process, then enhancement of their current workflow is not everybody has the same workflow and you can't force everybody to have same workflow.
22:32.621 --> 22:34.982
[SPEAKER_02]: But if we have a tool and there is
22:36.075 --> 22:50.878
[SPEAKER_02]: a handful of different ways to find information that tool, whether you're going through documents, whether you're going through reality capture, whether you want to go through a three-year model, whether you want to go, but you're finding the same information no matter what path you take.
22:51.379 --> 22:56.420
[SPEAKER_02]: And that way you're actually going the most comfortable and, you know, I can find it.
22:56.580 --> 22:57.420
[SPEAKER_02]: I know what I need to get.
22:58.185 --> 23:00.386
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you learn from different ways on top of it.
23:00.446 --> 23:02.887
[SPEAKER_02]: And you have access to all those other modules.
23:03.407 --> 23:09.008
[SPEAKER_02]: So we've built Voyager as this modularized piece and all these different things are connected.
23:09.269 --> 23:12.530
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's connected all the way through the assets based on this.
23:12.650 --> 23:17.551
[SPEAKER_02]: So those assets then are also connected to your other systems.
23:18.131 --> 23:22.573
[SPEAKER_02]: So we are pulling performance from your BMS and we are pulling asset management from your CMS.
23:23.693 --> 23:26.035
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's the interoperability coming back to it.
23:26.195 --> 23:27.956
[SPEAKER_00]: The problem is what is this?
23:29.197 --> 23:30.058
[SPEAKER_00]: Something is broken.
23:30.098 --> 23:32.899
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going on and feel and I need to figure out what this thing is.
23:33.080 --> 23:38.043
[SPEAKER_00]: And there could be multiple different avenues that they're going to go down to identify what that thing is.
23:38.103 --> 23:41.365
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe there's a clearly identified label that they can go off of them.
23:41.385 --> 23:42.126
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe there's not.
23:42.566 --> 23:52.850
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, yeah, there's all different kinds of ways where then reality capture other ways with your camera on your phone to identify what that thing is or geolocate yourself within a building.
23:53.170 --> 23:59.932
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's where, again, you don't have to be using them, but yet without them, you couldn't have done that, right?
23:59.972 --> 24:01.252
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's that nuance.
24:01.973 --> 24:04.994
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think in any of these cases necessarily, they would want to be
24:05.834 --> 24:13.897
[SPEAKER_00]: in even some sort of whatever that is virtual reality, where you're moving the camera around and it's showing you an x-ray of what's behind there.
24:13.937 --> 24:16.337
[SPEAKER_00]: There's so few cases where that makes sense.
24:16.497 --> 24:17.758
[SPEAKER_00]: But that exists, so they're cool.
24:18.518 --> 24:22.419
[SPEAKER_00]: But really, the power is the fact that it was sourced from them.
24:23.099 --> 24:25.020
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is what Voyager gives you, right?
24:25.060 --> 24:26.541
[SPEAKER_00]: Because everything's coming from them.
24:27.321 --> 24:28.981
[SPEAKER_00]: And at some point, it has to be stored somewhere.
24:29.081 --> 24:33.643
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're becoming, at least, for the FM side of it, they're single source, hopefully, of truth.
24:34.683 --> 24:37.225
[SPEAKER_00]: BIM was sold incorrectly to owners.
24:38.526 --> 24:44.551
[SPEAKER_02]: The value prop of BIM is the starting spot of foundational data for your building.
24:44.571 --> 24:51.917
[SPEAKER_02]: It gives you a single starting spot that then can load into all these operations and then grow.
24:52.833 --> 25:00.961
[SPEAKER_02]: versus bin was always sold as a three tool and said, hey, owner, you should do it because it's in three D. That's so cool.
25:01.522 --> 25:10.151
[SPEAKER_02]: No, actually, it's a very unique opportunity to build a database from design and construction that then can power operations.
25:10.531 --> 25:15.693
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to go into that a little bit more because we've got a lot of folks listening that aren't on the FM side.
25:15.753 --> 25:17.853
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, be honest, don't necessarily care.
25:18.453 --> 25:23.755
[SPEAKER_01]: Why is this important and this ability for this stuff to land in Voyager?
25:23.835 --> 25:27.116
[SPEAKER_01]: How is this going to help trades, design, and construction?
25:27.176 --> 25:29.937
[SPEAKER_01]: How does this help the upward teams?
25:30.157 --> 25:31.177
[SPEAKER_01]: What's in it for them?
25:31.597 --> 25:33.158
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I mean,
25:34.092 --> 25:49.340
[SPEAKER_02]: is we're looking at this work now capturing also information from operations and we're now starting to understand how to building performs and it's not in a BMS system that we don't understand how to read or how to get information out of.
25:49.881 --> 25:58.105
[SPEAKER_02]: It's actually coming back into the bin and we can reuse it during design construction so that whole circle chart of life cycle
25:58.908 --> 26:21.011
[SPEAKER_02]: It actually can be used and I see a little bit of a downfall for some engineers in this because what happens if your design is now starting to be proved incorrect because we have this full lifecycle of how it performed and now we're looking at Nathan you mentioned it before standard of care like
26:21.599 --> 26:22.780
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you do it correctly?
26:23.200 --> 26:28.905
[SPEAKER_02]: The good thing is it's going to be thirty years before they come back and say, well, you didn't design the first building, correct?
26:28.945 --> 26:30.286
[SPEAKER_02]: Why is this working?
26:30.880 --> 26:40.466
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's where I think you can double down on, because the first example of being able to find the information is of lagging indicator because the issue happened, you didn't predict that issue happening.
26:40.846 --> 26:52.813
[SPEAKER_00]: This whole being able to feed, be a best data, and feed the operations data in is where you can start to get to those leading indicators that's more proactive, where you can actually know that that thing's gonna blow before it actually does.
26:52.973 --> 26:54.954
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, you're serving both purposes, right?
26:55.094 --> 26:56.695
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's the biggest thing.
26:56.795 --> 26:59.897
[SPEAKER_02]: So the value that's gonna have for facility managers
27:00.858 --> 27:07.179
[SPEAKER_02]: is being able to understand how your building is performing and catching things before it goes down.
27:08.022 --> 27:11.383
[SPEAKER_02]: Right now, you're looking at lagging indicators.
27:11.623 --> 27:15.825
[SPEAKER_02]: If a piece of equipment goes down, you look for the trend that happens before it.
27:16.085 --> 27:17.905
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you try and find that trend before.
27:18.345 --> 27:19.706
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a manual process.
27:20.346 --> 27:26.268
[SPEAKER_02]: But the thing is those data analysis through AI is going to become that indicator.
27:26.948 --> 27:32.690
[SPEAKER_02]: And what's really cool is your manufacturers train, carrier,
27:33.792 --> 27:43.785
[SPEAKER_02]: They're going to actually have that data on them because they're going to be collecting this across all their implementations, not just one client or one building.
27:44.366 --> 27:49.112
[SPEAKER_02]: So all of a sudden if it's in the southwest of the United States and they have two units go down.
27:49.697 --> 28:00.728
[SPEAKER_02]: They could possibly even look at the clients in the Southwest and say, hey, if you see this vibration pattern and it raises above this temperature, you're going to want to go change the filter before it falls apart.
28:00.948 --> 28:05.513
[SPEAKER_01]: See, you're nailing on something that I was going to challenge and you brought in the AI.
28:05.553 --> 28:06.173
[SPEAKER_01]: I was going to challenge.
28:06.233 --> 28:07.214
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not going to take thirty years.
28:08.175 --> 28:13.021
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's going to get faster and faster and faster, and we're going to get predictive.
28:13.061 --> 28:22.031
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the beauty of what AI can do for us is it can find patterns, it can consume large amounts of data, and it can create some of this for us.
28:22.672 --> 28:27.958
[SPEAKER_01]: My challenge to the trades, the engineers, the architects that you just referenced, that engineers design that was wrong.
28:28.458 --> 28:46.490
[SPEAKER_01]: Right now is your opportunity and your organization to create a culture of continuous improvement and be ready to welcome the rapid feedback and the ability to adapt to it because that's actually the strength of a business right we we almost have been wanting this in many cases I know
28:47.310 --> 28:50.472
[SPEAKER_01]: engineers, I know trades, I know architects that want to get better.
28:50.532 --> 28:53.374
[SPEAKER_01]: They want to know what works and what doesn't work.
28:53.414 --> 29:03.441
[SPEAKER_01]: And like you just said, it takes thirty years in some cases for us to, and we're talking about a system that doesn't communicate with the tools that we're using to design and build and construct, et cetera.
29:03.501 --> 29:05.482
[SPEAKER_01]: So now we're looping this together.
29:05.502 --> 29:09.925
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you can create a culture where continuous improvement is welcomed,
29:10.309 --> 29:15.012
[SPEAKER_01]: And you can get that feedback back and then bring it to it to improve every time.
29:15.032 --> 29:16.573
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no right.
29:16.773 --> 29:18.014
[SPEAKER_01]: It's never going to be done.
29:18.094 --> 29:19.915
[SPEAKER_01]: It's always going to get improved.
29:19.935 --> 29:21.757
[SPEAKER_01]: So you guys are really setting up.
29:22.457 --> 29:30.603
[SPEAKER_01]: But you're setting up a cultural shift that I think's going to be really interesting again to watch inside of the technique because you're actually going to do this to yourselves.
29:31.243 --> 29:31.783
[SPEAKER_01]: which is cool.
29:31.823 --> 29:31.963
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
29:32.364 --> 29:32.824
[SPEAKER_02]: Hundred percent.
29:33.384 --> 29:34.264
[SPEAKER_02]: It's okay.
29:34.425 --> 29:44.489
[SPEAKER_02]: There is so many external factors happening in a building that your design is not going to operate or perform the way that you designed it.
29:44.589 --> 29:45.330
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just not.
29:45.370 --> 29:46.870
[SPEAKER_02]: There's too many external factors.
29:47.271 --> 29:48.251
[SPEAKER_02]: There's human factors.
29:48.351 --> 29:51.773
[SPEAKER_02]: Person's going to be opening the window every day because they rather have fresh air.
29:52.273 --> 29:53.794
[SPEAKER_02]: That kills your whole performance.
29:54.730 --> 30:08.514
[SPEAKER_02]: Those things you can't control, so you've got to then just learn from what you were doing, get those feedback, understand it better and do it differently versus just trying to hide from what might be a claim in the future, right?
30:08.674 --> 30:09.235
[SPEAKER_00]: You went there.
30:09.315 --> 30:16.317
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I agree with everything you said, Jeff, but before you went on that rant, I already wrote down what's the incentive to be honest in the first place.
30:16.657 --> 30:22.439
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, project contracts, there's one thing to say as an organization, we want to feed information up, yes.
30:22.999 --> 30:35.023
[SPEAKER_00]: But so many of these challenges, especially in FM, that we're talking about are cross stakeholder, where it could be parsing engineers mistake, it could be partially an installer's mistake, it could be partially a GC sequence thing.
30:35.523 --> 30:42.446
[SPEAKER_00]: And nobody really at that point gets this hot potato and pointing fingers in all the sensitivities, because there's real dollars and cents involved at that point.
30:43.046 --> 30:56.817
[SPEAKER_00]: So if AI is really going to help us that quickly, we've got to figure out a way to both be honest with AI, but yet avoid this dilemma of I need to put my guard up because of the contract and financial incentives, which you can't argue against, right?
30:57.237 --> 31:06.304
[SPEAKER_02]: You're going to have to end up being a partner with that owner and make sure that you're there to support them when they need the next help or figure it out.
31:07.144 --> 31:09.947
[SPEAKER_02]: They're not going to have the time to chase you down and figure out
31:10.707 --> 31:11.288
[SPEAKER_02]: on what you did.
31:11.328 --> 31:19.236
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, unless the air handler fell through the roof, but it's, I mean, they're not going to chase it down based off of building performance.
31:19.256 --> 31:27.925
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the only trick you part is the owners that are public companies where their hands are tied by literally laws that force these types of contracts.
31:27.965 --> 31:29.987
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, that's like, man, I don't know how to help you there.
31:31.168 --> 31:35.630
[SPEAKER_00]: other than, like, you know, some other lobbyistic and, you know, make it a larger stink than us about this.
31:35.650 --> 31:44.294
[SPEAKER_00]: Because, you know, I had to get to some point of, you know, that we are stuck in the mud here on some of this, but without tools to help us sort through all that.
31:44.334 --> 31:46.134
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's what makes Voyager unique, right?
31:46.154 --> 31:54.398
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you understand where all those rocks on the road are along the way and how do you navigate those and create good data for a facility manager?
31:54.692 --> 32:06.381
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, but I'll challenge back there, Nathan, like I think the cliff that all those people aren't looking at is the cliff of people not having enough.
32:07.290 --> 32:12.294
[SPEAKER_01]: in the trades, in the industry to deliver what we have.
32:12.554 --> 32:28.906
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's going to drive a shift even in public companies of finding a way to work in more of a partnership model in order to source and get things done because we are headed for a disaster if we do not.
32:31.207 --> 32:47.681
[SPEAKER_01]: Nine times out of ten we hit the disaster ish and there's people who've pushed beyond it and done things that are maybe a little outside the lines but they're getting results and they go well how'd you do that and they go well we went outside the lines a little but this worked and then they go
32:48.748 --> 32:53.631
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's redraw and they take out the eraser and they redraw the line.
32:54.471 --> 32:58.273
[SPEAKER_01]: And it does not happen where we redraw the line first.
32:58.993 --> 33:05.237
[SPEAKER_01]: It does take people with partnerships and a risk tolerance to do it.
33:05.277 --> 33:11.820
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's what Voyager is offering is an idea of a way to minimize the risks.
33:12.100 --> 33:14.221
[SPEAKER_01]: If we just jump off the cliff and we don't check our
33:15.762 --> 33:18.548
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, pack to make sure our base jumping gear is correct.
33:18.608 --> 33:19.650
[SPEAKER_01]: Then we are stupid.
33:20.171 --> 33:22.415
[SPEAKER_01]: But if we sit down, we understand what's in there.
33:22.435 --> 33:23.898
[SPEAKER_01]: We make sure it's packed correctly.
33:24.199 --> 33:26.523
[SPEAKER_01]: And we do a little calculation.
33:26.563 --> 33:27.265
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we jump.
33:28.041 --> 33:30.663
[SPEAKER_01]: We're still in nut, you know, you're based jumping.
33:31.144 --> 33:36.989
[SPEAKER_01]: You're still nutball, but you're a calculated risk mitigated nutball.
33:37.510 --> 33:39.211
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's what we're saying here.
33:39.512 --> 33:42.574
[SPEAKER_01]: And but I also see like we're going into this really far area.
33:42.995 --> 33:47.359
[SPEAKER_01]: Like there's a ton of value in this today in the way the facilities operate.
33:48.020 --> 33:52.344
[SPEAKER_01]: And we don't have to have that foundational unstructured shift.
33:53.084 --> 33:59.107
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you're also built something that I think follows the rules of evolution and adoption as well.
33:59.327 --> 34:03.969
[SPEAKER_02]: Follows, it's a, it's a next step on the path.
34:05.069 --> 34:09.111
[SPEAKER_02]: I think there's a connection point coming from design and construction into operations.
34:09.991 --> 34:12.312
[SPEAKER_02]: That connection point is, is hell still.
34:12.452 --> 34:18.614
[SPEAKER_02]: The project close out is probably still one of the worst experiences for everybody on every project.
34:20.417 --> 34:24.099
[SPEAKER_02]: What is not realized is the value that is lost in that.
34:24.839 --> 34:30.682
[SPEAKER_02]: For facility managers, they go and hand enter all that information back into their new systems.
34:31.603 --> 34:35.905
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, okay, but it was actually populated in design construction.
34:36.005 --> 34:37.726
[SPEAKER_02]: Just nobody really looked at it correctly.
34:37.766 --> 34:38.706
[SPEAKER_02]: Nobody validated it.
34:39.407 --> 34:40.427
[SPEAKER_02]: And they walked away.
34:40.887 --> 34:43.529
[SPEAKER_02]: So can we fix this then?
34:43.589 --> 34:45.630
[SPEAKER_02]: So you're not having to redo it all over.
34:46.722 --> 34:48.083
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a matter of, do they want to?
34:48.623 --> 34:49.524
[SPEAKER_02]: There's also budgets.
34:49.784 --> 34:51.665
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, where does your budget come from?
34:52.105 --> 34:56.147
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a design and construction budget and then there's a facility operations budget.
34:56.868 --> 34:58.088
[SPEAKER_02]: Who's paying for what?
34:58.409 --> 35:08.434
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's really the owners that you're starting to see that is almost combining those or making those two departments work together that are open to this idea.
35:08.554 --> 35:11.396
[SPEAKER_02]: So they are, they're racing the line there and saying, all right.
35:12.163 --> 35:14.124
[SPEAKER_02]: capital projects, you have to work with them.
35:14.204 --> 35:15.384
[SPEAKER_02]: You have to get this done.
35:16.044 --> 35:18.625
[SPEAKER_02]: And facility managers are facility operations.
35:18.765 --> 35:23.947
[SPEAKER_02]: If you want somebody in design construction to check this data and make sure it's done right, you pay for it.
35:24.387 --> 35:27.148
[SPEAKER_02]: You pay for a consultant that sits over top and does it.
35:27.708 --> 35:33.232
[SPEAKER_02]: But the amount of money and the risk that they're mitigating to do that actually saves them time.
35:33.672 --> 35:39.617
[SPEAKER_02]: They can operate their building better and they also can ensure they get data hand over at Project Closeout.
35:39.857 --> 35:44.420
[SPEAKER_02]: There's hospitals waiting sixteen months to get Project Closeout after opening.
35:46.121 --> 35:46.942
[SPEAKER_02]: They're having to operate.
35:47.242 --> 35:50.665
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd love to dig more questions, but we got to wrap her up.
35:50.685 --> 35:53.247
[SPEAKER_01]: But there is a little another little announcement in here.
35:53.407 --> 36:00.092
[SPEAKER_01]: You may have taken a role here, too, in this process and kind of put your money where your mouth is, so to speak.
36:00.772 --> 36:04.555
[SPEAKER_01]: And you got a new role, not outside of your technique.
36:04.575 --> 36:05.736
[SPEAKER_01]: This is on top of what you do.
36:05.756 --> 36:06.997
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no.
36:07.097 --> 36:07.998
[SPEAKER_01]: This is on top of what you do.
36:08.298 --> 36:13.162
[SPEAKER_01]: So what, what, what announce to get, get the folks a little, a little, looksie.
36:13.588 --> 36:14.309
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely.
36:14.349 --> 36:22.741
[SPEAKER_02]: So National Institute of Building Sciences, and I have been appointed the Chair of Digital Twin Integration Committee.
36:23.542 --> 36:28.789
[SPEAKER_02]: And we are a committee underneath the design, the digital technology council.
36:29.670 --> 36:32.772
[SPEAKER_02]: And we are looking at how we advance digital twins.
36:33.552 --> 36:37.614
[SPEAKER_02]: We've put up a couple of papers out, and we're looking at the next steps.
36:37.754 --> 36:39.295
[SPEAKER_02]: And really, what can we solve?
36:39.395 --> 36:40.176
[SPEAKER_02]: What can we do?
36:40.496 --> 36:43.437
[SPEAKER_02]: But we're also, you know, we're trying to grow the membership, too.
36:43.577 --> 36:50.981
[SPEAKER_02]: So if anybody is listening that wants more information on it, or at least just to be part of the conversation, reach out to me.
36:52.582 --> 37:06.492
[SPEAKER_02]: going to grow more towards the actual field and what we're doing in the field, what we're doing on day to day and how we can solve this instead of just defining what interoperability means.
37:07.217 --> 37:07.637
[SPEAKER_01]: I love it.
37:08.057 --> 37:10.818
[SPEAKER_01]: It's putting again leaning into the organization.
37:10.858 --> 37:12.739
[SPEAKER_01]: If you guys don't know nibs, look back.
37:12.759 --> 37:13.900
[SPEAKER_01]: We've had episodes on it.
37:14.080 --> 37:19.642
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it is a, like I said, when the line needs to get redrawn, somebody's got to be their redraught.
37:19.782 --> 37:24.524
[SPEAKER_01]: And it is going to be most likely in the camp of nibs that will start to help.
37:24.544 --> 37:27.245
[SPEAKER_01]: But it'll be organizations like that coming together that help.
37:27.285 --> 37:29.626
[SPEAKER_01]: So appreciate you diving into that.
37:29.646 --> 37:30.546
[SPEAKER_01]: And if anybody wants to
37:30.986 --> 37:31.887
[SPEAKER_01]: Find out more about it.
37:31.907 --> 37:33.248
[SPEAKER_01]: You can hit any of us on social.
37:33.268 --> 37:35.409
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll connect you with Jacob or just find him on LinkedIn.
37:35.890 --> 37:39.452
[SPEAKER_01]: Message him and he'd be happy to tell you a little bit more.
37:40.213 --> 37:42.995
[SPEAKER_01]: Man, this was fun.
37:43.015 --> 37:44.536
[SPEAKER_01]: I miss sitting down with you.
37:44.556 --> 37:45.396
[SPEAKER_01]: Been too long.
37:45.716 --> 37:47.598
[SPEAKER_01]: You've been stuck in the Voyager tunnel.
37:48.378 --> 37:51.381
[SPEAKER_01]: So glad to see you brought your head up to come and talk to us about a Jacob.
37:51.401 --> 37:51.901
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks, my man.
37:52.471 --> 37:54.232
[SPEAKER_02]: I really appreciate a Jeff Nathan.
37:54.613 --> 37:55.493
[SPEAKER_02]: Great conversation.
37:55.513 --> 37:58.996
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure we'll actually keep continuing the conversation here soon.
37:59.176 --> 37:59.556
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, man.
37:59.796 --> 38:00.356
[SPEAKER_00]: I was impressed.
38:00.416 --> 38:01.777
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, very, very solid answers.
38:01.797 --> 38:02.758
[SPEAKER_00]: You you pass the test.
38:02.938 --> 38:03.298
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sold.
38:03.318 --> 38:04.439
[SPEAKER_02]: I appreciate it.
38:04.459 --> 38:11.104
[SPEAKER_01]: So you are now officially out of the hot seat as I take us out of the show.
38:11.980 --> 38:16.407
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for tuning in a day to geek out for our interview with Jacob Delbora.
38:16.467 --> 38:19.952
[SPEAKER_01]: The read all our new stories learn more about our guests and listen to this show.
38:20.232 --> 38:22.455
[SPEAKER_01]: Visit the contentcrew.com.
38:22.656 --> 38:24.418
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the contentcrew signing out.
38:24.539 --> 38:28.084
[SPEAKER_01]: Until next time, enjoy the ride and geek out.
