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When you know what you stand for and you know what the impact that you want to have on the people that you care about, you will always be pioneering. You will always invest in education. You will always be open-minded and growth-minded to learning how to be better. You say you're providing a service with a product and you're not living true to your values or your actions don't match your words and you can't live up to what you're selling. They smell it before they can even buy it.
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Ring, ring, ring. Hello. We're calling with some rude awakenings today. Welcome back to another episode of She's Taking Over the Podcast. I am so happy to be here today with a very good friend of mine and a special guest coach, James McIntosh. James,
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Hello, how are you? Thank you for joining. Thanks for finally getting us set up. I think we've been threatening to do a podcast. Do you know we've been threatening to record a conversation between myself and you since we went for a walk on the Mossman stairs. Do you remember that? Wow, yes. Actually that is such a good point. We have such great chats. We always talk about all things business, the industry, growth,
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personal, all the rest. And at the end of it, we're always like, we should have recorded that. So here we freaking are like five or six years later. Five or six years. Jenna, I've known you for three and a half.
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Oh, well, there you go. There's some GST on that. Is that really it? Three and a half. Well, I moved to the country three, okay, three and three quarters, three and four quarters. Three and four quarters. That's actually crazy. Well, I just thought because, I mean, obviously we met in the days of the gym when we were working.
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And then you have a very successful business now and a house. So you're very well established for somebody who has been in the country for three and a half years.
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Yeah, it's a realization that I had about a week ago. I was talking to one of my friends back in South Africa, who's probably one of my closest friends from South Africa that I still keep in contact with. And he's like, man, you've been there coming up to four years, and what you've been able to do takes people 10-plus years. The fact that you've remade your name, reestablished yourself, re-
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invented everything from that standpoint, you now own a piece of property. You run a business, you do these things. He's like, do you realize like what you've done? And I was just like, no, because it's, it's not a, and this is not a, like a stab at anyone. And like, I like reflective work and like, I use the word auditing instead of reflective because reflective voice comes across as like,
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woohoo wishy-washy shit for me oh and that's no like that's no stab at anyone or anything it's just i just it's like i don't like the word goals for example it doesn't resonate with me because it's it's just i've just got like an ick to work like to turn words so it's like i've just it's the same thing but i call it auditing because to me that's like a business term
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It's I audit my client's progress. I audit my business. I audit my life. And that's, it's reflective. It's looking back on is essentially what that means. And I haven't done that in my personal journey. I,
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I do that with my clients. I do that with our friendships. I do that with everything other than my own personal journey, which, and it's, it's more so it's a self-reflective thing. There's the word, but it's a self-reflective thing around, like, I feel like I'm not there yet. That's like pressure and, and, and not there is this like ambiguous term.
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Because I don't quite know what that is because I restarted my life four years ago. And that's what a lot of people don't quite... No one talks about this when you move countries. No one talks about you start again. That's essentially what happens. I moved my life for a job, which taught me some extremely valuable lessons. And at the same time, allowed me to create some very valuable friendships, i.e. this one.
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But no one told me about restarting your life. No one told me about like, it's fucking hard. It's a difficult concept to try and do and like to restart and re make your name. Imagine like right now, if you just upped and left and went to a different country and no one knew who you were. And you just started. I thought about it. Yeah. We had a conversation. One of my best friends is doing that. One of the girls is just leaving and moving to London and,
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you know, you, I always say you are not a tree. You can move if you don't like where you are, but the way that he, as, as a resident here and living my life way that you kind of just slotted in to the industry, the area, the country now, obviously being in Queensland and
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the community and everyone around us, but then also how fast you established yourself is actually really impressive, how quickly you established yourself because you had essentially uprooted everything and started all over again and you've done a good job. Yeah. And we've spoken about this, but, and this is part of one of the conversation I want to have is like, someone's asked me if it was like, how did you do it? It's like, I don't know. I just did what I do always. Yeah.
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And I provided a service. I provided a solution to a product. I worked my ass off. I worked harder than I've ever worked in my entire life. And I worked for this thing, this goal, this ambiguous term of whatever it is, because I feel like I'm behind. And that can be such a negative thing. That can be such a negative trait of working because of grudgement.
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is like where that could fall into. It's like if someone begrudges you or someone does you wrong and now you set out to prove them wrong in their terms, everyone can, or I, in my own experience, everyone's been like, that's an incorrect way to create motivation.
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And I think it's such a positive way because it's such a powerful motivator to prove someone wrong along with making sure that you're doing it with values and integrity and for the purpose of yourself. So that's where the flip side comes into this. I know a lot of people who have made decisions in their lives because people have told them that they can't do things.
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And they go out and they make a career and they pursue a career path, a job, etc. And they do it and they succeed, but they're never fulfilled because they did it in spite of someone. Now, in my case, yes, there's a form of like doing it in spite of...
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starting again, not essentially knowing where I am at 20, whatever I was, 26, 27 years old when I moved countries. And I didn't have any other option. It's single swim. It's the perfect example of single swim. So that was my, like, one of my biggest motivators was, hey, you either do this or you're kind of fucked. Yeah.
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So you make sure you do it. And that was kind of the one aspect of this motivation. The second aspect is like, I love what I do. And that's not just the like typical...
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I love what you do and you'll never work it. No, I work my ass off. And some days I'm like, I don't know why I do this, but I know exactly why I do this. I know the impact I want to have. I know the impact I do have. I know the relationships that I've created from it. I know the bad things that have happened from it. I know the negative outcomes that have come from it. And every negative outcome that has come from this working the way that I do or this relationship,
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Essentially, sometimes making a name for yourself, whether it's positive or bad, I know what outcomes it has provided me and its solutions it's given me and these opportunities that it's given me.
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And I wouldn't change that. Not a chance. The last three and a half years of my life, I wouldn't go back and do anything different. I'd probably punch some people in the face before, like once or twice just because. Because I feel like everyone needs to be punched in the face at least once in their life. Like I have a golden rule of like, and this is not me.
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advocating for violence but at the same time i feel like it needs like violence is not a bad thing i have a goal and rule of like i think everyone at like 18 should be punched in the face and punch someone in the face because and this is hear me out hear me out it's like if you've ever been punched in the face it sucks it's probably one of the worst things to ever happen in your life in an altercation
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And punching someone in the face is just as bad. And it's learning about consequences is essentially what you learn. Like you understand that if you punch someone in the face, you're going to hurt your hand. You've now created this scenario that didn't necessarily need to be or a lot of the time doesn't need to happen.
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And then at the same time, when you are punched in the face, you genuinely deserved it. You've generally done something to deserve to be punched in the face. So it's like it's learning actions and consequences. And that's like my rule or like my statement that I stand by. I'm not advocating for violence, but I still think that like people learning consequences is such a valuable thing. Every action has a reaction or consequence, no matter what you do. It's always going to happen.
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So that's my, that's life lessons with James. Follow me for Instagram. Follow me and you might get punched in the face. No, you won't. I feel that pain is the biggest motivator for everyone. Studies have been done and...
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I can't remember the specific study, but studies show that pain is a greater motivator. The fear of the unknown, the fear of loss, the thought of losing what you have or not feeling good enough is a stronger driver than pleasure or hope. Because if you were to think that something was going to be taken away from you, you could never have it again or never live up to, people attack their goals differently.
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And I know so many people, I have a few actually, a few people, there's no GST on that. A few of my friends that have done some really big things in their life and even successful entrepreneurs, when you think about it, have come from adversity. And pressure makes diamonds, right? We know that.
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the pain and the setbacks that you can use to propel you forward, get you so much further. I feel not saying that you need to have adversity to do well, but the appreciation, the grit and the tenacity in which you attack your goals comes from that survival mode. And whether you're getting punched in the face for the first time at 18 or going through a country move, the fear,
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in two people can still, they resonate on that level, you know, and that, that fear is something that can really push you to drive change. So I feel that I wouldn't change it either. I think I'm also motivated by the pain, motivated by pain and fear and loss. And obviously having gone through things in my life where I refuse to be
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a victim of my circumstances. So I work myself out of those circumstances and then I make sure that nobody can ever do that to me again, essentially. And I honestly, I go to a lot of therapy to try and learn to flip it around and start to become
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you know, lead with love, Jenna, is what my therapist would say. And she's like, you can set goals from the heart. Do it because you, you know, how would you respond or how would you move if you didn't do it out of fear? And I'm like, I fucking would probably sleep better at night. But the reality is it's not that I do it. It's not that I work the way I do or chase my goals because I'm scared of losing anything. But it's also like I never want to be the – I always want to be the strongest version of myself and I never want to go through certain things again, right?
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Yeah, so I have a theory with this as well. So, disclosure, I speak to therapists as well. We both do because we are better people for it. And we understand that we do want to make these...
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these changes within our environments that kind of starts with from within. And this is not a, you know, there's not a mental health thing. This is not, and it is a mental health thing, but this is not a mental health podcast or whatever it is from that standpoint. I think that needs to be left to professionals. And that's why I seek a professional for this type of thing. But hear me out. And I'm getting to a point here is, is I, my therapist has recognized that I dive into work and,
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And I dive into chaos and I put out fires and I problem solve. And like, I feel the most comfortable when the shit hits the fat. Okay. I thrive in chaos is my saying. I've got it tattooed across. Okay. If I'm going to do something, I do it well. Yeah. But so, but here's the thing. And he's, and he pointed it out to me and I, and he pointed out a statement that I said, and a couple of times I say this and he brought up a, uh,
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A super interesting concept and a statement that he said when I brought up these things. I was like, oh, it's like it must be my coping mechanism. And then I was like, I don't know if it's healthy or unhealthy. And he looked at me. Looked at me via. I speak to him. You know, he's in Canada. I speak to him via Zoom. And he looked at me and he was like, it doesn't matter if it's healthy or unhealthy. It matters if it works. And I had this like.
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this kind of like epiphany of like, fuck, he's right. It's like, who's to say that my coping mechanism is healthy or unhealthy if it is working? If it's creating a positive outcome, which is essentially stopping me from going off the rails or stops us from having these breakdowns or whatever it is,
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Who's to say that it's healthy or unhealthy? My obsession with training and getting better and looking after my body and providing the best service I can for my clients and spending as much time and money on education and bettering myself and building things, diving into work, fixing problems, looking for solutions. It's generally seen as unhealthy, the obsession that I have with this.
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but it's not the right term because it's healthy in the way of it is positive for me. It creates a positive outcome. It may not be healthy according to Susie Maxusan or whatever you want to call her. And because she doesn't respond to that, but it doesn't mean that it's unhealthy. It means it works. It creates a positive solution for me.
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So I do it and it works. I had to, I had to go through a similar realization or I went through a similar realization when I lost my mom because,
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I learned I went to therapy straight away I enrolled in a neuro linguistic programming course because I was scared that it would change my brain because of the trauma and I didn't want to get PTSD which I have and I said to my therapist I just want to make sure I get through this in the best way possible and she said to me what does the best way possible look like for you and I said I just want to move on productively and she's like Jenna this is grief like
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There's no right or wrong way to grieve. You're just going to, there's better coping mechanisms and things that are better for you essentially. But when it comes to a motivator, you know, you get to choose how you respond and the effect of the response is then good or, you know, positive or negative, right? So whatever's happening for you that you're using, if it's driving such, like for me, what I've been through in my life,
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is everything that I am today has come from my past experiences and my past trauma and whatever the fuck, because I made sure that I would never have an environment like that for my future family and, you know, made sure that I would never have to go through those things again. So whilst it comes on the back end of, um,
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you know, hardship essentially. And recalling, it's recalling those things and then still being able to choose better, right? Yes, the outcome is positive, but you're not actually choosing a victim mindset. You're still choosing better.
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So in a way, it might not seem or sound light for people, but it is the reason that you find a lot of your purpose and your values as well is when you're put in a position where you have to choose. And it's when you choose that you don't choose an outcome, you choose your values. So when something happens to you in life that is traumatic or unforeseen,
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you get punched in the face or whatever it is, it's how you respond to that, that then shows you your own character and traits that you might not have had a real, you can say, these are my values, this is what I care for,
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circumstances will come to show you by choice. And if you think that you know your values, if you just look back and say your last choices, don't base it on the future, base it on the evidence. You are who you just chose yourself to be. So I think as well, that's, I guess, a great segue for the brand name, only the committed, right?
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Yeah, and the brand name of Only the Committed, which is the company, kind of came to fruition over a few iterations of trying to find something that aligned. And it actually came up with, shout out Coach Jens, who's an ex-South African boy that I worked with in South Africa, and he moved to the UK. And I was doing some work with him.
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And the company name at the time was Performance Programming because like that's what I do very well. And we'll kind of get into that in a little bit. And we were dissecting like the individuals that come to me. We were dissecting myself as an individual because a lot of the times I think you speak on this a lot, but I think a lot of people forget this. You are your brand.
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You as the entrepreneur, and let's use that word lightly, you as your sole trader, in a lot of the times before you become a business owner and you move into these realms, it's like you as a sole trader are your brand. You are exactly who that needs to be. And I've always been, and you'll be able to attest this, like I have a very strong set of values. Right.
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a very strong set of values. And when it's tested, I always fall back on them. And I always seem to make the same decisions according to my value, my set of values. And that started as I grew and develop in my company and in,
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the individuals that I was working with and the way in which I was portraying myself more and more, it became more and more evident of like, I am this, my company has a very similar set of values. And I think that's a very important distinction here.
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as a business owner and a sole trader, when you start to develop this, especially in the fitness industry from that standpoint, you as an individual have a set of values. Your company has a set of values. A lot of the time they will be very interchangeable because you are your brand, exactly as I'm saying.
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But it's a very good process to go through both and understand that they're two separate entities. We did this. We went through the accelerator program and the fitness business strategy at the time, I think it was called. No, we did. Oh, yeah, we did. It was accelerator. I can't remember. We did the accelerator. I've done a lot. Yeah, you've done both. I've done a lot, yes. But this is the point. It's like what I've done is like...
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What did we do? We sat down and we went through my values, my personal values. And then we went through the company values because again, they are interchangeable, but they're very distinct in terms of what they do because the business, yes, I represent the business. I am the brand of the business. And I am, especially being a sole trader, one person show type of idea. It's like, I am the business, but it has to have a set of values. And going back to what I was kind of getting at is, what?
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I, as an individual, always fall back when the shit hits the fan, when thrive in chaos, when I have to problem solve. And when, you know, you see red, you see there's everything going on, the building's burning and you're sitting there having your cup of tea and everything's fine. It's like I fall back on my values and I make decisions on my values and I make decisions.
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you know, a lot of the steps forwards, the way forwards or the way out of these solutions or the solutions out there of the way out are based on a set of values that I have, the set of values that the company has. And the way I was portraying myself and the people that I was attracting have a similar set of values, have a similar way of upholding themselves, have a similar standard that uphold themselves. And it's like, and...
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we were trying to come up with this, we were trying to come up with a slogan, I think at the time. And we were trying to come up with like a slogan, a catchphrase of like, what can we say that describes my clientele, my individuals? And I just was like, only the committed. Like, that's it. They just full on commit. Like they come to me, we have a plan of action. We know where we're going. We know what we want to do. We commit, we get the job done.
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And he looked at me and I was like, I like that a name is a company name. And he was like, so do I. We have to do a rebrand. And we did a full rebrand. And we did this full change of the name is the full change. But everything else fell into place. And it was like this, it was the segue and there was the fork in the road of the
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the reiteration of my company and where it was going by this establishment or this recognition of this is who I am. This is who the company is. So let's talk to that because I always say to my clients and to coaches, I'm,
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You have to be yourself. And I think it's shitty advice to say, be authentic only because people obviously don't understand what that means. Otherwise they would, they would be doing it and everybody says it. And this is you really aligning to your values, staying strong to your values and choosing a brand that really encapsulated what you wanted it to stand for.
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How has that changed your business? How have your clients changed over the last 12 or 18 months?
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So it didn't change the business. It changed the attraction of the clientele, as you're referring to. Because the business has always been those values, has always been that. Just the portrayal of it now became more and more evident. The name allowed it to become – yeah, the marketing changed that. And subsequent to that, it's like the type of clients I get –
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a much higher clientele. And I think we've got to define a higher from that standpoint. I've got clients of all types of financial backgrounds. I've got clients of all types of jobs. I have clients of all ages from that standpoint. But every single one of them comes to me ready to take on the challenge and fully commit.
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And I've had clients in the past, and as the sweep of the rebrand and the stepping into the light is, I think, probably a better description than a rebrand. Because it was the same thing, but it was kind of this sweeping effect over the company. As I changed the name, every client in the company kind of made the decision of like, yeah, fuck, this is it.
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This is what we want. This is, this is us. It has the net. We encompass the name. And I had clients who didn't and they left. And I said goodbye. And I moved them on to other coaches very happily because they weren't part of the brand. They weren't. And that's no fault of them. There's, I don't hold a grudge. I don't, you know, I don't judge them from that standpoint. I,
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You're allowed to have your own values. You're allowed to have your own thoughts, perceptions, whatever you want. But they just didn't align. And I think that that's like, that's an okay thing. It's like you can have friends who don't have the same values as you. But if they respect my values and I can respect theirs, we're still friends. Same concept with like clientele. So it's like the sweeping effect occurred within the business and like –
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I'm very mindful of the wording I use, but it kind of like washed out all the riffraff. It's such a bad word, but it got rid of all of like the dead hair. You know, like when you, no one listen to this and take it personally. Yeah. You know, when you girls go and get your, what your dead trims, what's the split ends. That's the word I'm looking for where your split ends get cut off and you get like a fresh, a fresh. Watching you stumble around female chat. Yeah.
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I thought you were going to say when you go into the shower after a girl's conditioned her hair and there's like a clump of hair in the sink.
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I mean, it's been a very, very long time since I've had a female condition and their hair in my shower. So don't worry. I can't go with that one. But essentially, it's the starting off new. It kind of like the fresh, the split ends were cut off. And it's like now you've got a fresh set of hair and you're going to go out and glam yourself up. Shrimp in the tree. Yeah.
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Yeah, trimming the tree. That's probably a way better analogy. So now the tree can grow with strong foundations, which is committed clients. Yeah, exactly. And this is why you're the marketing lady and I coach people because the analogy is better. And as the years, that's now coming on two years since the name change, two years since the name change.
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And it just keeps getting better. And I just get more and more clients who are 100% aligned to that. And one of the greatest things that this did is, and one of my biggest challenges, and we had this challenge, but we actually didn't have this challenge, which was, and I remember you pointing this out to me, was a lot of businesses and especially personal trainers will have a challenge of like, when leads come in,
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like the filtration system in leads of like, if this is a good lead or, you know, is this a lead going to align with us? And a lot of the times we, you know, we create funnels, we create, you know, questionnaires and type forms. And we do these things to try and wean out the one, the time wasters so that we kind of get on a call and we can create as much of a 100% success rate or turnover rate as possible. I did that by changing my name.
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And that was like one of the best things that we identified was that when people get on a call with me or they reach out, it's a very simple thing of like the name says it, sells it for it. It's like only the committed. So the people who reach out to it, no one else. That's it. I don't want someone who's kind of like half in, half out. I don't want anyone who's like, again, I do this because it's like, if it's not, fuck yes, it's not.
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That's it. That's only the committed. That's who it is. That's the brand. That's what we want. That's who we are. It's like you're in or out, and there's no in between. And that name change, like trade, that filtration system alone. Yes, the leads went down. And I understand this, like, you know, you were very, very insightful in helping me within this process of, I had,
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I can't remember the figures, but I had an amount of leads that was coming in before only the committed change. And they were dog shit, to be blunt. There was a significant amount of them. There was a large quantity of leads that came in. We changed the name. We aligned the marketing strategy with the name. And the leads got less, but the conversion stayed at 100%.
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versus, and that's, but that's the point. And that's the beauty of one. That's the beauty of, and like shameless plug, working with someone who knows what they're doing and working with other individuals who don't know what they're doing. They're like, yo, leads, the more leads you get, the higher the conversion rate. It's like, no, I don't, I'd rather get one lead a month that I know is going to sell than get 10 leads at a shitty conversion rate. It doesn't, it doesn't, it's a waste of my time.
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And that was such a pivotal, massive, massive, massive change within the business and a massive mental thing to get around as a business owner because I went from having a lot of calls booked in and fighting for sales, essentially. Fighting for sales and then like when the sale would happen –
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it would be a bit of a nightmare client and it would be a fuck up and it would be, it would just, it would just actually irritate me. And I'd sit there about a week into this whole process and I'd be like, why did I take them on?
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this is like, it's a waste of my time. And then we did every, we changed everything. And the leads that came in, I have like, I am the most excited to talk to my clients currently, whether it's via text, WhatsApp, video call, whatever it is, like the tags I get on Instagram. It's like,
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I love, and I'm not saying this as like, I'm a great coach. It's like, I love my clients because they're only the committed. They are my brand. They are me. They are like my little children. I call it, I joked, jokedly, jokedly. Like I call some of my clients kids. Like I'm like, hey kid. And like, it's, and it's just me. Like, it's my way of being affectionate. It's my way of like talking to people. And guys become like friends from that standpoint. And it's,
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We have this communication skill, and that's a great thing of being a coach and a subset of this. But it's generally because I love them. I love what they represent in my brand and in my company. And that's only been possible since this strategic change of a marketing strategy that aligns to who I am, who my company is, who my brand is, who we work with.
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Whereas before, it was kind of like a shotgun. It was like, that's just 12 gauge it out, buckshot 32. You guys won't know what that is because I know guns and you don't. But like, it's a lot of bullets, I think 32, a lot of spread. And hopefully I hit something.
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Where it's like, now I've got the sniper. It's like, I'm the Chris Kyle. Please, I hope someone gets this reference. But like, I'm the Chris Kyle versus the over under shotgun shooter. Two completely different people.
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Yeah, I always used to actually know that analogy or hear that analogy back in sales, having a sniper approach. And the moral of the story is to know your values. And it comes from the things that motivate you and then choose those values because choosing those values allows you to attract people that you actually like working with and
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you have greater success with. And I can relate. I also feel that same way about my clients. I'm so proud of my clients. I'm so excited about what they do. I love watching them. I love talking to them. I try and tell everybody not to WhatsApp me and I WhatsApp everybody anyway. And it's really, you know, obviously we have to have boundaries in terms of building a successful business. And if you really want to be entrepreneurial, not a one-trepreneur essentially, if you want to have a
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sellable asset or if you want to create a scalable business, you obviously need to look at ways in which and implement ways in which you can do that. But it starts with
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It starts with success. It starts with the runs on the board. You actually have to get the clients in. You have to work with hundreds of people before you try and go and invent all these other wacky products. And so I think in hearing what you're saying, it's everything that we try and teach. It's get success with the group of people that you're passionate about working with and
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That success comes because when you've found your thing, when you know what you stand for and you know the impact that you want to have on the people that you care about, you will always be pioneering. You will always invest in education. You will always be open-minded and growth-minded to learning how to be better. And then you will naturally be ahead of the market. And what tends to happen is when you're not living like that,
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What you start then doing is creating these intensive, aggressive marketing strategies, which is like the tail wagging the dog, because you're trying to attract all of these leads, trying to fulfill a business that doesn't look like what you're actually wanting it to look like. You've got this cognitive dissonance between you and how you're presenting yourself in the markets.
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And that is why there's a disconnect between you and your leads. I don't want to work with anybody who doesn't want to work with me. And I don't get people who jump on my sales calls not knowing what I'm about either. Because it's about the consistency and the clarity of the messaging, which you can then support with undeniable proof in your content marketing because you've got the clients that you've attracted by being true to yourself to do it.
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Well, I add to that, and I add the next step in this, and I always say it's like clients and people have got – as much as consumers are stupid, and I say that respectfully, but most consumers, you can kind of baffle and bullshit your way into like getting some money from someone.
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You generally can. But the types of clients I work with and the types of individuals that offer this higher tier product and this one-to-one coaching service and where these – the people that I like to associate myself with from that standpoint, I promise you consumers smell bullshit. Right?
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If you are faking it and you are providing a service with a product that – or you say you're providing a service with a product and you're not living true to your values and your words don't match or your actions don't match your words and you can't live up to what you're selling, they smell it before they can even buy it. Yeah. And it is – that is something that I noticed over COVID. Yeah.
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Like when we came out of COVID of like, I think people were just sitting around too much and started realizing that like, how is everyone making so much money? Like he's promising a lot of bullshit. And I genuinely, and I hope that that's where we've got to. And I think people, I say it's like people smell bullshit. So if I'm not true, which a lot of the time does, a lot of the time,
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I live to the purpose of never not upholding my values, not making decisions from that standpoint. How you do one thing is how you do everything is a principle around making sure that you set yourself a standard that you always strive to uphold.
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If I don't do that and I try and I don't do sales things, you've shouted at me about this all the time. It's like I don't do call to actions. It's not sales. It's helping people help themselves. Correct. I know. I know. I know. I know. You shout at me all the time about this. But if I were to- Help them help themselves. I know. If I veer away from the genuine, the 100% genuineness of what that is,
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I don't feel good. And I immediately will pick up leads that are incorrect. And it's proof of concept. That's this thing. Once you step into the realm of knowing who your audience is, like you said, putting out the right content, whether that's your marketing strategy, whether that's your problems that you solve, whatever it is,
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Once you step into that, that, that, that line, that realm of like doing it truthfully, honestly, and doing it properly. If you step underneath that, people fucking know straight away. They know you're talking shit. They know you're not. And I've had people call people out on that. And I like, I encourage that from that standpoint of like, Hey, Jenna, that's not you. You don't do products like that. We've done, we've had these calls.
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Well, I have these calls or shit like that. I have a bit of a bone to pick with high ticket. Yep. Because everybody who promotes high ticket are essentially trying to say, get rich, make money, go high, make more money, charge more. And what I want people to be pursuing is high value. How can you add more value? How can you create a better product?
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path to results? How can you create a longer lasting result? How can you create a more enjoyable, you know, it doesn't, how can you create more value to raise your prices? And that is what we do. That is what we focus on working with our clients to make sure that they are able to do what they say that they do, and then do it better to have more value. But you have been doing this. We've been working on this with you in your own business. And
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Essentially, we can create with what you are doing, revenue into the seven figures with the right offering. And now we've come up with a new structure. And this is part of running a business. It's not just like, okay, this is what I charge for my time. How can I start charging $1,000 an hour as a PT?
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It's no, how can I change my business model? And this is where working with a business strategist is different to working with a business coach. I'm not here to tell you to jump around and put yourself out there so that you can go and bang the fuck out of your social media accounts to get all these leads that don't align with your business. It's let's look at what you're selling. Let's look at the structure of your business. Let's look at what your goals are and how can we create a model that returns and delivers the solution to the.
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the audience that we are here to serve, but then up, essentially vertically integrate or go up the value chain to increase value as a business. Yeah, it's the whole concept of like personal trainers are terrible for this and fitness people are terrible for this. We charge time for money or money for time. And then people are like, yeah, we'll just charge more. It's like, yeah, but you're not changing time.
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We only have, and whatever, we only have so many hours in the day. We only have so much billable hours that we can kind of look at. And yeah, just charge more for my time. It's like, yeah, okay, I'm $1,000 an hour. I'm still charging per hour. That doesn't change anything from that standpoint. I want to provide better value. I want results-driven services. It's the whole, you know, we've spoken about this with the plumber analogy,
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of like the plumber who's been working for 40 odd years, who comes along, taps one thing on the pipe and like bends it or does whatever plumbers do, or whatever you guys call plumbers in this fricking country. And like, I don't know what you call them. You call them, you call everything random things like plum, plum, plum, plum. It's probably a plum. I'm surprised it's not like a shithead or some shit. Like what, what's a electrician is a sparky.
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Like I get it. That kind of makes sense. It does, but it doesn't. All right. That's, but so the idea behind that is, is he's worked for 20 years because he knows where to hit the pipe. And then I'm going to pay him the $2,000 instead of the newbie apprentice who I'm going to pay 200. Cause they're going to spend three hours trying to figure this out. It's, it's about how, how fast can I provide? How fast, how much value, how much money.
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results-driven services can I provide to my client? That's what they pay me for. They pay me for my expertise. They pay me for the result. They pay me to get them to fix their problem, to find their solution.
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it it may take me five hours it may take me 30 minutes it may take me a year whatever it is they're not gonna the price then kind of is dictated from that it's not time it's got nothing to do with time and i hate it when this happens and this is my next thing of when we get all of these business coach people who like everyone's just like well now we go low ticket
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I can't, I can't do that. I'm sorry. I'm sorry if this hurts people's feelings. This literally makes no sense. I'm here for this rant. Like this is a rant. This is a me fight me if you want on this. It's like, we can have, yeah, come try and see what happens. But the idea behind that is like, I don't like low ticket offers because you're devaluing a service and you're cannibalizing your sales essentially, especially when you don't have the leads. Yeah.
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Yes. Yes. So there's no demand. Correct. There's a, it's a very different conversation. If you run, if you have a very, very big influence on social media, if you have the leads that kind of come in from that, you have the eyes on you. I think I don't have a big following. I don't like social media. I think that's anyways, that's another rant. But the idea behind it is like, I feel like low ticket offers devalue your service.
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It takes away from my ability, my expertise that I give to these individuals who come to me to solve solutions. But, and this is where we've been able to do this, is like the low ticket offer, which is not a low ticket offer. It's a results. It's a solution that I've come up with in the industry. Yeah.
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is like I can help other coaches be faster at things, give them time, give them the expertise of what I do. I program really, really well, really well. It's why I teach it in one of the best companies in the world in the education platform.
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It's like, this is what I do is I do programming, mass programming very, very effectively, individual client programming very effectively. So we've been talking about this for the last year of like, let's make this a product. And like, I don't, I'm not the smart one. You're the smart one. I just do the coaching things. And we've been building this. You are the master of your craft. Yes, I am. And I'm so okay with that.
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Because that's what I love doing. And this is why, like I've always said to you, it's like, I don't know marketing. I don't know that. And that's why I go to the master of the craft. It's the whole thing of like, you're not, I'm not going to come to you for fitness advice.
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I'm not going to write you a squat program. Yeah. You're not going to write me a squat program. That's going to get me around my injuries with my hip, with the way that I move with all of my shit. I'm sorry, Jen. Like I'm not, but I'm going to come to you when I'm like, but you don't sell that. And that's the point because you know what your craft is. Yeah. And you're fucking good at that. So you sell that. And I know what I'm good at, but we just didn't quite know how to sell what I was good at in this, this mass market style.
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Well, we were learning. Yeah, we were really learning the market and doing research in terms of determining product market fit because it wasn't just a coach mentoring offer. You had done and do coach mentoring. This was more of a,
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your offer now is make time, make money because you've done the programming for them, right? And it's not robotic AI generated programs that you can't trust that'll put somebody in a freaking wheelchair. We're not going to bag on AI, but I'm just saying it's not James.
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Yeah, and it doesn't have the years of expertise. It doesn't have yet. Fuck, we'll never know where AI is going. But it doesn't have what I can offer. It doesn't have my master of craft yet. But the idea, and this is where, like you're saying, we're trying to find this market fit and like,
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it was working in certain aspects and I've got a couple of companies that we've been like testing it with to a certain degree, trying to find the fit. And I think that's part of like product development. And we've got it now. And yeah, we've got it a hundred percent, but, and, and I think this is a, such a, a vital thing to point out. I haven't changed my business. Yeah.
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I haven't been like, oh, this is me now. I just do this and forget about my current clients and forget about servicing everyone from that standpoint. Because that's also what I love and always do love and look after is my clients, my – I hate this – my why.
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I don't like that word. I love knowing your why. What is it, James? Tell us. Tell us your why. Let's reflect. My why. No, but it's true. You stuck to the one thing. You have stuck to the one thing. You do one thing really fucking well, and now you know what you have changed? You haven't changed your business. You've changed your customer. You have elevated from the end user by vertically integrating to now essentially selling to businesses.
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Yes. And I think this is what needs to happen. This is what a lot of people forget in this like low ticket offer thing. They've like been coaching for whatever, six months, a year, and they're kind of doing okay with that. And they haven't like jumped full into it. Or they're not, they haven't given it the time that a lot of these things do need and deserve. And then their next solution is like, I'm not getting leads and my clients are not like, I'm not growing the business from that standpoint. Yeah.
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I'm just going to offer something at a lower price because that's what we need right now. The market needs a lower offer. And I was like, are you fucking kidding me? No. Why would you go down the value chain and make more work? It really actually makes no sense, right? I'm going to do more and essentially devalue my time. Because if I could make $100 an hour or a week with a client I spend one hour with,
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Now I'm going to do nothing all week and I'm going to spend 12 weeks or however long building this thing that I'm going to make 12 bucks a week from. You need 60 people and you've just got a headache. That's what you've got. All right. And those people, it pays to pay, like invested people are invested people. People will get better results and become better testimonies to you. I honestly feel like it's so clear when you want to grow a business, it's like do a
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do one thing for one group of people, do it really well, continue to do it really well, make it better, ask them how you can make it even better. And then essentially you elevate from there. Once you've got the undeniable burden of proof that you're really good at what you do, then you can teach other people how to do what you do if you want to, or do it for people who help those people. And then you kind of keep doing that and then you diversify. But instead what happens is people are like,
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I'm not really getting the sales. Maybe I'm too expensive. So I'm going to charge more. And if you don't know economics, it's sell me this pen. It's supply and demand. If you already don't have demand for your services, why do you think that more people will come when it's cheaper when there are workout programs for free on the internet?
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Yes. And the organogram of how you describe like a business should evolve, especially in the fitness industry, especially in the fitness industry around what we're talking about. It's like,
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Mark, I use Mark for this analogy because I, you know, I worked with him from that standpoint. I've got a good relationship with him from there. So he's got a goal-introver. I've got a goal-introver. I think we're like... Best friends. We're best friends. Yay. But the idea behind it is like Mark did bikini girls really, really, really well.
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really well and he continued to do bikini girls really really well and he got known for doing the bikini girls very very well and then what did he do he didn't like jump out and start doing anything else what did he brought up bikini girl what was it build the bikini guide one or uh building the
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That one. Close enough. Close enough. One. And, like, everyone jumped onto that. And then two. And then three. And that's the, that stacking, that organigram. He didn't go, he didn't go, ah, I'm going to just try and, like, build powerlifters. Yeah. Yeah.
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And also to anybody listening to this and then thinking that means they can do it, Mark also coached thousands of people. Thousands. For a long, long time. And that's what people forget from this. Mark didn't just like happen in six months.
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Yeah, I know. And people forget that. But you know, this irritates me as well, right? And this is something that I'm mindful of with the clients I attract. I won't work with somebody who just wants to make money. I ask what your why is at the start. I ask it. I want to know what it is. I want to know why you're here. And if somebody says, I really just need to make more money, that's really not the answer I'm looking for. Money is a byproduct of passion. And when you've... Yes, yes.
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Right, it's a byproduct. So I want people who want to make an impact. I want to work with people who want to change the world or want to essentially create something that is of value and they have integrity to their word. And when somebody says, I just want to make money, they're the hardest clients to work with because they don't care. They don't provide you with anything. They don't care about their clients. I care more about their clients than they do. And then I end up coming up with all the ideas that,
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for their client experience, which is really just me asking you, where can you put your personality into the experience so that people feel like they've got to bond with you? Because at the end of the day, you're a one-on-one coach. And if you think people are going to pay somebody that they don't know so that you can go and sit and sip cocktails on the beach, you need, somebody needs to give you a wake-up call and this is it.
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to punch you in the face. Like, ring, ring, ring. Hello. We're calling with some rude awakenings today. Thanks for tuning in. But this is it. And this is like a part of it is society's delayed gratification and the inability to, you know, delay the gratification, delay the success from that standpoint. Because we do. Everyone wants the quick buck. The how do I make as much money as I can in six months?
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It's been glamorized to a certain degree with these overnight successes, which are not generally overnight successes. They're usually a very long period of time, and suddenly they hit the golden nugget, and they're able to do these things. It frustrates me because it's time in the trenches.
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You have to put the work in. You didn't just start kind of dabbling in the fitness thing and doing marketing and then be like, yeah, I'm, I'm a, I'm an expert. Come to me, give me money. Get 20 grand, 20 grand to work with me. Like, no, how many years? Fuck you. We worked at for a long time and we got fucked over there. And then we continued on. That shall not be named. That shall not be named Voldemort over there.
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but like that. And, but this is it. It's time in the trenches and you can get ready. You, you can, you can speed up your results as a coach, which will then speed up the longterm approach and like building up your client base and getting these things. That's where you can speed up this. In my opinion, you can't speed up making money other than not getting really good results.
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Learn from the individuals who have put their time in the trenches and then put your time in the trenches and make up yours. This is my ick. And get them. This is my ick with the online space in the sense that…
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With what I do, I work with service providers who want to create a scalable business by scaling online. A lot of the people I work with have been doing what they do in person. And they weren't, to be fair, I can work with anybody, not just personal trainers. I've worked with mortgage brokers and property buyers and makeup artists and beauticians and all the rest. But let's talk about the fitness coaching space or online coaching space. I think there's a lot of people sitting around somewhere in a job that they don't like.
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and they decide I'm going to become an online coach. And it's like, okay, well, what are you going to sell? And now it's like mindset, because you can cheer somebody on after a weekend in some course, right? And I'm so sensitive about this can of worms that I'm going down because I'm not having a stab, but I'm just saying, if you do do that, please do it after you've made your traumatic life, recovery, value, enlightening,
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growth to then show you what it is that you can do. But I just feel there's a lot of people who think, you know what, I'm going to go online. And it's like me sitting here going, you know what, James, I've had a good run. I think I'm going to start building houses. Off I go.
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What? I've never stepped in that house ever because it's going to fall on me. I'll call you, James. How do I turn the lights on? I wouldn't even make it that far. No. But here's the next thing to this and to add to it as well. It's like I'm still in a certain way. I'm still against people moving online. And hear me out.
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A lot of people haven't spent enough time creating a connection with a human individual in front of them. And now you want to try and create a client, a face-to-face client. And now you want to try and create an interaction, a relationship, communication skills via a screen. It's fucking hard. People don't talk about this more. Online coaching is double the work to face-to-face.
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Yeah, well also, it's not as enjoyable because you lose the environment that you love. I've seen this happen. Yes. Just to interject here, I've had a lot of clients actually completely drop face-to-face because they've grown so successful with online and they've come back and said, I want to continue doing face-to-face because I like it. I'm happy there. You will trade a job in the gym on your feet, clocking 50,000 steps a day, working your own hours.
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for a computer job. And, you know, that's kind of what happens. And a leadership job. You have to learn leadership skills. You have to learn delegation skills. It's a completely different requirement. You do change your business when you go from face-to-face to online. And the skills that are required change as well. And so it does bring with it a level of, you know, it comes back to knowing what it is that you want to do. And if you have the business acumen and the business mind that says, I want to reinvest to continue to build, whether you want to write books, create activewear,
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create supplements, build an app, build a business that does what you do by the true core value at large, that's fine. But if you just want to make money, that's fine too. But do you want to be unhappy doing it?
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Yes, and that's it there. It's like I love the very rare occasional interactions with clients who will come into town or see them somewhere around Gold Coast, something like that, and I get to train with them.
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Or I get to do the like hands-on stuff. Or when I teach for pre-script and we do our in-person seminars and like I get to have that human, the face-to-face interaction. Fuck, I love it. I love people. As much as I hate people, I love people. I love dogs better. But like I love the interaction, the human connection side of it. Because that's like, that's my why. Why?
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I love it too. I love going into the office. I don't have an office, but I'll come into yours if you'll have me and I'll sit there for a day. I love a whiteboard. I love boardrooms. I love, I used to go to work with my dad as a kid and just go pretend to present to people in the boardroom and draw on the whiteboard.
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and go have big meetings with my imaginary friends. So I get it. You have to still be, you have to love what you do, right? Yes, yes, that's it. You do have to have the passion. You do have to have the drive. You do have to have, you do have to understand that it's fucking lonely.
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And that it's hard. And it sucks sometimes. Oh my God, it can be isolating. And it's isolating. And it's all of the negative things and more than it is positive. But the positive things, if you have your passion right and you have –
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You have your drive attached to that passion. It's beautiful. It provides value. It provides everything that you wanted to help individuals. And then you get the benefit of that, whether it's monetary, whether it's spiritual from that side, whether it's the fact that you know you've made a difference in someone's life.
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you understand that there is a sacrifice. There is, I'm taking this full circle. Fucking look at this. There is consequences to actions. It's the punch in the face and it's being punched in the face. Yeah. And on that note. And that's where we wrap it up, folks. The moral of the story is, I guess we can drop that mic. Drop it there.
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That was an episode. Thank you so much. Honestly, wow. We have to do that again, I feel. And people, listeners, thank you. I love your feedback. We love your feedback. Please do hit us up if you listen to this. Share it. Tag Coach James Mack on Instagram and go say, hey, I said to James before we jumped on air, I don't really need to give you an intro because everyone should know who you are. And if you don't, now you do. And if you're still listening, we love to hear from you. Please also do leave a review. And just like that, I'm a poet. And I...
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Definitely did know it. Don't do that. Don't do that thing. Thank you.
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When you know what you stand for and you know what the impact that you want to have on the people that you care about, you will always be pioneering. You will always invest in education. You will always be open-minded and growth-minded to learning how to be better. You say you're providing a service with a product and you're not living true to your values or your actions don't match your words and you can't live up to what you're selling. They smell it before they can even buy it.
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Ring, ring, ring. Hello. We're calling with some rude awakenings today. Welcome back to another episode of She's Taking Over the Podcast. I am so happy to be here today with a very good friend of mine and a special guest coach, James McIntosh. James,
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Hello, how are you? Thank you for joining. Thanks for finally getting us set up. I think we've been threatening to do a podcast. Do you know we've been threatening to record a conversation between myself and you since we went for a walk on the Mossman stairs. Do you remember that? Wow, yes. Actually that is such a good point. We have such great chats. We always talk about all things business, the industry, growth,
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personal, all the rest. And at the end of it, we're always like, we should have recorded that. So here we freaking are like five or six years later. Five or six years. Jenna, I've known you for three and a half.
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Oh, well, there you go. There's some GST on that. Is that really it? Three and a half. Well, I moved to the country three, okay, three and three quarters, three and four quarters. Three and four quarters. That's actually crazy. Well, I just thought because, I mean, obviously we met in the days of the gym when we were working.
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And then you have a very successful business now and a house. So you're very well established for somebody who has been in the country for three and a half years.
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Yeah, it's a realization that I had about a week ago. I was talking to one of my friends back in South Africa, who's probably one of my closest friends from South Africa that I still keep in contact with. And he's like, man, you've been there coming up to four years, and what you've been able to do takes people 10-plus years. The fact that you've remade your name, reestablished yourself, re-
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invented everything from that standpoint, you now own a piece of property. You run a business, you do these things. He's like, do you realize like what you've done? And I was just like, no, because it's, it's not a, and this is not a, like a stab at anyone. And like, I like reflective work and like, I use the word auditing instead of reflective because reflective voice comes across as like,
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woohoo wishy-washy shit for me oh and that's no like that's no stab at anyone or anything it's just i just it's like i don't like the word goals for example it doesn't resonate with me because it's it's just i've just got like an ick to work like to turn words so it's like i've just it's the same thing but i call it auditing because to me that's like a business term
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It's I audit my client's progress. I audit my business. I audit my life. And that's, it's reflective. It's looking back on is essentially what that means. And I haven't done that in my personal journey. I,
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I do that with my clients. I do that with our friendships. I do that with everything other than my own personal journey, which, and it's, it's more so it's a self-reflective thing. There's the word, but it's a self-reflective thing around, like, I feel like I'm not there yet. That's like pressure and, and, and not there is this like ambiguous term.
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Because I don't quite know what that is because I restarted my life four years ago. And that's what a lot of people don't quite... No one talks about this when you move countries. No one talks about you start again. That's essentially what happens. I moved my life for a job, which taught me some extremely valuable lessons. And at the same time, allowed me to create some very valuable friendships, i.e. this one.
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But no one told me about restarting your life. No one told me about like, it's fucking hard. It's a difficult concept to try and do and like to restart and re make your name. Imagine like right now, if you just upped and left and went to a different country and no one knew who you were. And you just started. I thought about it. Yeah. We had a conversation. One of my best friends is doing that. One of the girls is just leaving and moving to London and,
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you know, you, I always say you are not a tree. You can move if you don't like where you are, but the way that he, as, as a resident here and living my life way that you kind of just slotted in to the industry, the area, the country now, obviously being in Queensland and
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the community and everyone around us, but then also how fast you established yourself is actually really impressive, how quickly you established yourself because you had essentially uprooted everything and started all over again and you've done a good job. Yeah. And we've spoken about this, but, and this is part of one of the conversation I want to have is like, someone's asked me if it was like, how did you do it? It's like, I don't know. I just did what I do always. Yeah.
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And I provided a service. I provided a solution to a product. I worked my ass off. I worked harder than I've ever worked in my entire life. And I worked for this thing, this goal, this ambiguous term of whatever it is, because I feel like I'm behind. And that can be such a negative thing. That can be such a negative trait of working because of grudgement.
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is like where that could fall into. It's like if someone begrudges you or someone does you wrong and now you set out to prove them wrong in their terms, everyone can, or I, in my own experience, everyone's been like, that's an incorrect way to create motivation.
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And I think it's such a positive way because it's such a powerful motivator to prove someone wrong along with making sure that you're doing it with values and integrity and for the purpose of yourself. So that's where the flip side comes into this. I know a lot of people who have made decisions in their lives because people have told them that they can't do things.
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And they go out and they make a career and they pursue a career path, a job, etc. And they do it and they succeed, but they're never fulfilled because they did it in spite of someone. Now, in my case, yes, there's a form of like doing it in spite of...
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starting again, not essentially knowing where I am at 20, whatever I was, 26, 27 years old when I moved countries. And I didn't have any other option. It's single swim. It's the perfect example of single swim. So that was my, like, one of my biggest motivators was, hey, you either do this or you're kind of fucked. Yeah.
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So you make sure you do it. And that was kind of the one aspect of this motivation. The second aspect is like, I love what I do. And that's not just the like typical...
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I love what you do and you'll never work it. No, I work my ass off. And some days I'm like, I don't know why I do this, but I know exactly why I do this. I know the impact I want to have. I know the impact I do have. I know the relationships that I've created from it. I know the bad things that have happened from it. I know the negative outcomes that have come from it. And every negative outcome that has come from this working the way that I do or this relationship,
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Essentially, sometimes making a name for yourself, whether it's positive or bad, I know what outcomes it has provided me and its solutions it's given me and these opportunities that it's given me.
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And I wouldn't change that. Not a chance. The last three and a half years of my life, I wouldn't go back and do anything different. I'd probably punch some people in the face before, like once or twice just because. Because I feel like everyone needs to be punched in the face at least once in their life. Like I have a golden rule of like, and this is not me.
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advocating for violence but at the same time i feel like it needs like violence is not a bad thing i have a goal and rule of like i think everyone at like 18 should be punched in the face and punch someone in the face because and this is hear me out hear me out it's like if you've ever been punched in the face it sucks it's probably one of the worst things to ever happen in your life in an altercation
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And punching someone in the face is just as bad. And it's learning about consequences is essentially what you learn. Like you understand that if you punch someone in the face, you're going to hurt your hand. You've now created this scenario that didn't necessarily need to be or a lot of the time doesn't need to happen.
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And then at the same time, when you are punched in the face, you genuinely deserved it. You've generally done something to deserve to be punched in the face. So it's like it's learning actions and consequences. And that's like my rule or like my statement that I stand by. I'm not advocating for violence, but I still think that like people learning consequences is such a valuable thing. Every action has a reaction or consequence, no matter what you do. It's always going to happen.
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So that's my, that's life lessons with James. Follow me for Instagram. Follow me and you might get punched in the face. No, you won't. I feel that pain is the biggest motivator for everyone. Studies have been done and...
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I can't remember the specific study, but studies show that pain is a greater motivator. The fear of the unknown, the fear of loss, the thought of losing what you have or not feeling good enough is a stronger driver than pleasure or hope. Because if you were to think that something was going to be taken away from you, you could never have it again or never live up to, people attack their goals differently.
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And I know so many people, I have a few actually, a few people, there's no GST on that. A few of my friends that have done some really big things in their life and even successful entrepreneurs, when you think about it, have come from adversity. And pressure makes diamonds, right? We know that.
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the pain and the setbacks that you can use to propel you forward, get you so much further. I feel not saying that you need to have adversity to do well, but the appreciation, the grit and the tenacity in which you attack your goals comes from that survival mode. And whether you're getting punched in the face for the first time at 18 or going through a country move, the fear,
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in two people can still, they resonate on that level, you know, and that, that fear is something that can really push you to drive change. So I feel that I wouldn't change it either. I think I'm also motivated by the pain, motivated by pain and fear and loss. And obviously having gone through things in my life where I refuse to be
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a victim of my circumstances. So I work myself out of those circumstances and then I make sure that nobody can ever do that to me again, essentially. And I honestly, I go to a lot of therapy to try and learn to flip it around and start to become
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you know, lead with love, Jenna, is what my therapist would say. And she's like, you can set goals from the heart. Do it because you, you know, how would you respond or how would you move if you didn't do it out of fear? And I'm like, I fucking would probably sleep better at night. But the reality is it's not that I do it. It's not that I work the way I do or chase my goals because I'm scared of losing anything. But it's also like I never want to be the – I always want to be the strongest version of myself and I never want to go through certain things again, right?
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Yeah, so I have a theory with this as well. So, disclosure, I speak to therapists as well. We both do because we are better people for it. And we understand that we do want to make these...
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these changes within our environments that kind of starts with from within. And this is not a, you know, there's not a mental health thing. This is not, and it is a mental health thing, but this is not a mental health podcast or whatever it is from that standpoint. I think that needs to be left to professionals. And that's why I seek a professional for this type of thing. But hear me out. And I'm getting to a point here is, is I, my therapist has recognized that I dive into work and,
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And I dive into chaos and I put out fires and I problem solve. And like, I feel the most comfortable when the shit hits the fat. Okay. I thrive in chaos is my saying. I've got it tattooed across. Okay. If I'm going to do something, I do it well. Yeah. But so, but here's the thing. And he's, and he pointed it out to me and I, and he pointed out a statement that I said, and a couple of times I say this and he brought up a, uh,
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A super interesting concept and a statement that he said when I brought up these things. I was like, oh, it's like it must be my coping mechanism. And then I was like, I don't know if it's healthy or unhealthy. And he looked at me. Looked at me via. I speak to him. You know, he's in Canada. I speak to him via Zoom. And he looked at me and he was like, it doesn't matter if it's healthy or unhealthy. It matters if it works. And I had this like.
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this kind of like epiphany of like, fuck, he's right. It's like, who's to say that my coping mechanism is healthy or unhealthy if it is working? If it's creating a positive outcome, which is essentially stopping me from going off the rails or stops us from having these breakdowns or whatever it is,
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Who's to say that it's healthy or unhealthy? My obsession with training and getting better and looking after my body and providing the best service I can for my clients and spending as much time and money on education and bettering myself and building things, diving into work, fixing problems, looking for solutions. It's generally seen as unhealthy, the obsession that I have with this.
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but it's not the right term because it's healthy in the way of it is positive for me. It creates a positive outcome. It may not be healthy according to Susie Maxusan or whatever you want to call her. And because she doesn't respond to that, but it doesn't mean that it's unhealthy. It means it works. It creates a positive solution for me.
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So I do it and it works. I had to, I had to go through a similar realization or I went through a similar realization when I lost my mom because,
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I learned I went to therapy straight away I enrolled in a neuro linguistic programming course because I was scared that it would change my brain because of the trauma and I didn't want to get PTSD which I have and I said to my therapist I just want to make sure I get through this in the best way possible and she said to me what does the best way possible look like for you and I said I just want to move on productively and she's like Jenna this is grief like
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There's no right or wrong way to grieve. You're just going to, there's better coping mechanisms and things that are better for you essentially. But when it comes to a motivator, you know, you get to choose how you respond and the effect of the response is then good or, you know, positive or negative, right? So whatever's happening for you that you're using, if it's driving such, like for me, what I've been through in my life,
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is everything that I am today has come from my past experiences and my past trauma and whatever the fuck, because I made sure that I would never have an environment like that for my future family and, you know, made sure that I would never have to go through those things again. So whilst it comes on the back end of, um,
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you know, hardship essentially. And recalling, it's recalling those things and then still being able to choose better, right? Yes, the outcome is positive, but you're not actually choosing a victim mindset. You're still choosing better.
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So in a way, it might not seem or sound light for people, but it is the reason that you find a lot of your purpose and your values as well is when you're put in a position where you have to choose. And it's when you choose that you don't choose an outcome, you choose your values. So when something happens to you in life that is traumatic or unforeseen,
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you get punched in the face or whatever it is, it's how you respond to that, that then shows you your own character and traits that you might not have had a real, you can say, these are my values, this is what I care for,
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circumstances will come to show you by choice. And if you think that you know your values, if you just look back and say your last choices, don't base it on the future, base it on the evidence. You are who you just chose yourself to be. So I think as well, that's, I guess, a great segue for the brand name, only the committed, right?
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Yeah, and the brand name of Only the Committed, which is the company, kind of came to fruition over a few iterations of trying to find something that aligned. And it actually came up with, shout out Coach Jens, who's an ex-South African boy that I worked with in South Africa, and he moved to the UK. And I was doing some work with him.
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And the company name at the time was Performance Programming because like that's what I do very well. And we'll kind of get into that in a little bit. And we were dissecting like the individuals that come to me. We were dissecting myself as an individual because a lot of the times I think you speak on this a lot, but I think a lot of people forget this. You are your brand.
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You as the entrepreneur, and let's use that word lightly, you as your sole trader, in a lot of the times before you become a business owner and you move into these realms, it's like you as a sole trader are your brand. You are exactly who that needs to be. And I've always been, and you'll be able to attest this, like I have a very strong set of values. Right.
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a very strong set of values. And when it's tested, I always fall back on them. And I always seem to make the same decisions according to my value, my set of values. And that started as I grew and develop in my company and in,
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the individuals that I was working with and the way in which I was portraying myself more and more, it became more and more evident of like, I am this, my company has a very similar set of values. And I think that's a very important distinction here.
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as a business owner and a sole trader, when you start to develop this, especially in the fitness industry from that standpoint, you as an individual have a set of values. Your company has a set of values. A lot of the time they will be very interchangeable because you are your brand, exactly as I'm saying.
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But it's a very good process to go through both and understand that they're two separate entities. We did this. We went through the accelerator program and the fitness business strategy at the time, I think it was called. No, we did. Oh, yeah, we did. It was accelerator. I can't remember. We did the accelerator. I've done a lot. Yeah, you've done both. I've done a lot, yes. But this is the point. It's like what I've done is like...
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What did we do? We sat down and we went through my values, my personal values. And then we went through the company values because again, they are interchangeable, but they're very distinct in terms of what they do because the business, yes, I represent the business. I am the brand of the business. And I am, especially being a sole trader, one person show type of idea. It's like, I am the business, but it has to have a set of values. And going back to what I was kind of getting at is, what?
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I, as an individual, always fall back when the shit hits the fan, when thrive in chaos, when I have to problem solve. And when, you know, you see red, you see there's everything going on, the building's burning and you're sitting there having your cup of tea and everything's fine. It's like I fall back on my values and I make decisions on my values and I make decisions.
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you know, a lot of the steps forwards, the way forwards or the way out of these solutions or the solutions out there of the way out are based on a set of values that I have, the set of values that the company has. And the way I was portraying myself and the people that I was attracting have a similar set of values, have a similar way of upholding themselves, have a similar standard that uphold themselves. And it's like, and...
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we were trying to come up with this, we were trying to come up with a slogan, I think at the time. And we were trying to come up with like a slogan, a catchphrase of like, what can we say that describes my clientele, my individuals? And I just was like, only the committed. Like, that's it. They just full on commit. Like they come to me, we have a plan of action. We know where we're going. We know what we want to do. We commit, we get the job done.
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And he looked at me and I was like, I like that a name is a company name. And he was like, so do I. We have to do a rebrand. And we did a full rebrand. And we did this full change of the name is the full change. But everything else fell into place. And it was like this, it was the segue and there was the fork in the road of the
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the reiteration of my company and where it was going by this establishment or this recognition of this is who I am. This is who the company is. So let's talk to that because I always say to my clients and to coaches, I'm,
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You have to be yourself. And I think it's shitty advice to say, be authentic only because people obviously don't understand what that means. Otherwise they would, they would be doing it and everybody says it. And this is you really aligning to your values, staying strong to your values and choosing a brand that really encapsulated what you wanted it to stand for.
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How has that changed your business? How have your clients changed over the last 12 or 18 months?
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So it didn't change the business. It changed the attraction of the clientele, as you're referring to. Because the business has always been those values, has always been that. Just the portrayal of it now became more and more evident. The name allowed it to become – yeah, the marketing changed that. And subsequent to that, it's like the type of clients I get –
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a much higher clientele. And I think we've got to define a higher from that standpoint. I've got clients of all types of financial backgrounds. I've got clients of all types of jobs. I have clients of all ages from that standpoint. But every single one of them comes to me ready to take on the challenge and fully commit.
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And I've had clients in the past, and as the sweep of the rebrand and the stepping into the light is, I think, probably a better description than a rebrand. Because it was the same thing, but it was kind of this sweeping effect over the company. As I changed the name, every client in the company kind of made the decision of like, yeah, fuck, this is it.
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This is what we want. This is, this is us. It has the net. We encompass the name. And I had clients who didn't and they left. And I said goodbye. And I moved them on to other coaches very happily because they weren't part of the brand. They weren't. And that's no fault of them. There's, I don't hold a grudge. I don't, you know, I don't judge them from that standpoint. I,
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You're allowed to have your own values. You're allowed to have your own thoughts, perceptions, whatever you want. But they just didn't align. And I think that that's like, that's an okay thing. It's like you can have friends who don't have the same values as you. But if they respect my values and I can respect theirs, we're still friends. Same concept with like clientele. So it's like the sweeping effect occurred within the business and like –
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I'm very mindful of the wording I use, but it kind of like washed out all the riffraff. It's such a bad word, but it got rid of all of like the dead hair. You know, like when you, no one listen to this and take it personally. Yeah. You know, when you girls go and get your, what your dead trims, what's the split ends. That's the word I'm looking for where your split ends get cut off and you get like a fresh, a fresh. Watching you stumble around female chat. Yeah.
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I thought you were going to say when you go into the shower after a girl's conditioned her hair and there's like a clump of hair in the sink.
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I mean, it's been a very, very long time since I've had a female condition and their hair in my shower. So don't worry. I can't go with that one. But essentially, it's the starting off new. It kind of like the fresh, the split ends were cut off. And it's like now you've got a fresh set of hair and you're going to go out and glam yourself up. Shrimp in the tree. Yeah.
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Yeah, trimming the tree. That's probably a way better analogy. So now the tree can grow with strong foundations, which is committed clients. Yeah, exactly. And this is why you're the marketing lady and I coach people because the analogy is better. And as the years, that's now coming on two years since the name change, two years since the name change.
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And it just keeps getting better. And I just get more and more clients who are 100% aligned to that. And one of the greatest things that this did is, and one of my biggest challenges, and we had this challenge, but we actually didn't have this challenge, which was, and I remember you pointing this out to me, was a lot of businesses and especially personal trainers will have a challenge of like, when leads come in,
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like the filtration system in leads of like, if this is a good lead or, you know, is this a lead going to align with us? And a lot of the times we, you know, we create funnels, we create, you know, questionnaires and type forms. And we do these things to try and wean out the one, the time wasters so that we kind of get on a call and we can create as much of a 100% success rate or turnover rate as possible. I did that by changing my name.
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And that was like one of the best things that we identified was that when people get on a call with me or they reach out, it's a very simple thing of like the name says it, sells it for it. It's like only the committed. So the people who reach out to it, no one else. That's it. I don't want someone who's kind of like half in, half out. I don't want anyone who's like, again, I do this because it's like, if it's not, fuck yes, it's not.
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That's it. That's only the committed. That's who it is. That's the brand. That's what we want. That's who we are. It's like you're in or out, and there's no in between. And that name change, like trade, that filtration system alone. Yes, the leads went down. And I understand this, like, you know, you were very, very insightful in helping me within this process of, I had,
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I can't remember the figures, but I had an amount of leads that was coming in before only the committed change. And they were dog shit, to be blunt. There was a significant amount of them. There was a large quantity of leads that came in. We changed the name. We aligned the marketing strategy with the name. And the leads got less, but the conversion stayed at 100%.
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versus, and that's, but that's the point. And that's the beauty of one. That's the beauty of, and like shameless plug, working with someone who knows what they're doing and working with other individuals who don't know what they're doing. They're like, yo, leads, the more leads you get, the higher the conversion rate. It's like, no, I don't, I'd rather get one lead a month that I know is going to sell than get 10 leads at a shitty conversion rate. It doesn't, it doesn't, it's a waste of my time.
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And that was such a pivotal, massive, massive, massive change within the business and a massive mental thing to get around as a business owner because I went from having a lot of calls booked in and fighting for sales, essentially. Fighting for sales and then like when the sale would happen –
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it would be a bit of a nightmare client and it would be a fuck up and it would be, it would just, it would just actually irritate me. And I'd sit there about a week into this whole process and I'd be like, why did I take them on?
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this is like, it's a waste of my time. And then we did every, we changed everything. And the leads that came in, I have like, I am the most excited to talk to my clients currently, whether it's via text, WhatsApp, video call, whatever it is, like the tags I get on Instagram. It's like,
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I love, and I'm not saying this as like, I'm a great coach. It's like, I love my clients because they're only the committed. They are my brand. They are me. They are like my little children. I call it, I joked, jokedly, jokedly. Like I call some of my clients kids. Like I'm like, hey kid. And like, it's, and it's just me. Like, it's my way of being affectionate. It's my way of like talking to people. And guys become like friends from that standpoint. And it's,
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We have this communication skill, and that's a great thing of being a coach and a subset of this. But it's generally because I love them. I love what they represent in my brand and in my company. And that's only been possible since this strategic change of a marketing strategy that aligns to who I am, who my company is, who my brand is, who we work with.
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Whereas before, it was kind of like a shotgun. It was like, that's just 12 gauge it out, buckshot 32. You guys won't know what that is because I know guns and you don't. But like, it's a lot of bullets, I think 32, a lot of spread. And hopefully I hit something.
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Where it's like, now I've got the sniper. It's like, I'm the Chris Kyle. Please, I hope someone gets this reference. But like, I'm the Chris Kyle versus the over under shotgun shooter. Two completely different people.
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Yeah, I always used to actually know that analogy or hear that analogy back in sales, having a sniper approach. And the moral of the story is to know your values. And it comes from the things that motivate you and then choose those values because choosing those values allows you to attract people that you actually like working with and
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you have greater success with. And I can relate. I also feel that same way about my clients. I'm so proud of my clients. I'm so excited about what they do. I love watching them. I love talking to them. I try and tell everybody not to WhatsApp me and I WhatsApp everybody anyway. And it's really, you know, obviously we have to have boundaries in terms of building a successful business. And if you really want to be entrepreneurial, not a one-trepreneur essentially, if you want to have a
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sellable asset or if you want to create a scalable business, you obviously need to look at ways in which and implement ways in which you can do that. But it starts with
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It starts with success. It starts with the runs on the board. You actually have to get the clients in. You have to work with hundreds of people before you try and go and invent all these other wacky products. And so I think in hearing what you're saying, it's everything that we try and teach. It's get success with the group of people that you're passionate about working with and
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That success comes because when you've found your thing, when you know what you stand for and you know the impact that you want to have on the people that you care about, you will always be pioneering. You will always invest in education. You will always be open-minded and growth-minded to learning how to be better. And then you will naturally be ahead of the market. And what tends to happen is when you're not living like that,
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What you start then doing is creating these intensive, aggressive marketing strategies, which is like the tail wagging the dog, because you're trying to attract all of these leads, trying to fulfill a business that doesn't look like what you're actually wanting it to look like. You've got this cognitive dissonance between you and how you're presenting yourself in the markets.
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And that is why there's a disconnect between you and your leads. I don't want to work with anybody who doesn't want to work with me. And I don't get people who jump on my sales calls not knowing what I'm about either. Because it's about the consistency and the clarity of the messaging, which you can then support with undeniable proof in your content marketing because you've got the clients that you've attracted by being true to yourself to do it.
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Well, I add to that, and I add the next step in this, and I always say it's like clients and people have got – as much as consumers are stupid, and I say that respectfully, but most consumers, you can kind of baffle and bullshit your way into like getting some money from someone.
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You generally can. But the types of clients I work with and the types of individuals that offer this higher tier product and this one-to-one coaching service and where these – the people that I like to associate myself with from that standpoint, I promise you consumers smell bullshit. Right?
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If you are faking it and you are providing a service with a product that – or you say you're providing a service with a product and you're not living true to your values and your words don't match or your actions don't match your words and you can't live up to what you're selling, they smell it before they can even buy it. Yeah. And it is – that is something that I noticed over COVID. Yeah.
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Like when we came out of COVID of like, I think people were just sitting around too much and started realizing that like, how is everyone making so much money? Like he's promising a lot of bullshit. And I genuinely, and I hope that that's where we've got to. And I think people, I say it's like people smell bullshit. So if I'm not true, which a lot of the time does, a lot of the time,
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I live to the purpose of never not upholding my values, not making decisions from that standpoint. How you do one thing is how you do everything is a principle around making sure that you set yourself a standard that you always strive to uphold.
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If I don't do that and I try and I don't do sales things, you've shouted at me about this all the time. It's like I don't do call to actions. It's not sales. It's helping people help themselves. Correct. I know. I know. I know. I know. You shout at me all the time about this. But if I were to- Help them help themselves. I know. If I veer away from the genuine, the 100% genuineness of what that is,
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I don't feel good. And I immediately will pick up leads that are incorrect. And it's proof of concept. That's this thing. Once you step into the realm of knowing who your audience is, like you said, putting out the right content, whether that's your marketing strategy, whether that's your problems that you solve, whatever it is,
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Once you step into that, that, that, that line, that realm of like doing it truthfully, honestly, and doing it properly. If you step underneath that, people fucking know straight away. They know you're talking shit. They know you're not. And I've had people call people out on that. And I like, I encourage that from that standpoint of like, Hey, Jenna, that's not you. You don't do products like that. We've done, we've had these calls.
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Well, I have these calls or shit like that. I have a bit of a bone to pick with high ticket. Yep. Because everybody who promotes high ticket are essentially trying to say, get rich, make money, go high, make more money, charge more. And what I want people to be pursuing is high value. How can you add more value? How can you create a better product?
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path to results? How can you create a longer lasting result? How can you create a more enjoyable, you know, it doesn't, how can you create more value to raise your prices? And that is what we do. That is what we focus on working with our clients to make sure that they are able to do what they say that they do, and then do it better to have more value. But you have been doing this. We've been working on this with you in your own business. And
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Essentially, we can create with what you are doing, revenue into the seven figures with the right offering. And now we've come up with a new structure. And this is part of running a business. It's not just like, okay, this is what I charge for my time. How can I start charging $1,000 an hour as a PT?
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It's no, how can I change my business model? And this is where working with a business strategist is different to working with a business coach. I'm not here to tell you to jump around and put yourself out there so that you can go and bang the fuck out of your social media accounts to get all these leads that don't align with your business. It's let's look at what you're selling. Let's look at the structure of your business. Let's look at what your goals are and how can we create a model that returns and delivers the solution to the.
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the audience that we are here to serve, but then up, essentially vertically integrate or go up the value chain to increase value as a business. Yeah, it's the whole concept of like personal trainers are terrible for this and fitness people are terrible for this. We charge time for money or money for time. And then people are like, yeah, we'll just charge more. It's like, yeah, but you're not changing time.
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We only have, and whatever, we only have so many hours in the day. We only have so much billable hours that we can kind of look at. And yeah, just charge more for my time. It's like, yeah, okay, I'm $1,000 an hour. I'm still charging per hour. That doesn't change anything from that standpoint. I want to provide better value. I want results-driven services. It's the whole, you know, we've spoken about this with the plumber analogy,
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of like the plumber who's been working for 40 odd years, who comes along, taps one thing on the pipe and like bends it or does whatever plumbers do, or whatever you guys call plumbers in this fricking country. And like, I don't know what you call them. You call them, you call everything random things like plum, plum, plum, plum. It's probably a plum. I'm surprised it's not like a shithead or some shit. Like what, what's a electrician is a sparky.
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Like I get it. That kind of makes sense. It does, but it doesn't. All right. That's, but so the idea behind that is, is he's worked for 20 years because he knows where to hit the pipe. And then I'm going to pay him the $2,000 instead of the newbie apprentice who I'm going to pay 200. Cause they're going to spend three hours trying to figure this out. It's, it's about how, how fast can I provide? How fast, how much value, how much money.
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results-driven services can I provide to my client? That's what they pay me for. They pay me for my expertise. They pay me for the result. They pay me to get them to fix their problem, to find their solution.
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it it may take me five hours it may take me 30 minutes it may take me a year whatever it is they're not gonna the price then kind of is dictated from that it's not time it's got nothing to do with time and i hate it when this happens and this is my next thing of when we get all of these business coach people who like everyone's just like well now we go low ticket
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I can't, I can't do that. I'm sorry. I'm sorry if this hurts people's feelings. This literally makes no sense. I'm here for this rant. Like this is a rant. This is a me fight me if you want on this. It's like, we can have, yeah, come try and see what happens. But the idea behind that is like, I don't like low ticket offers because you're devaluing a service and you're cannibalizing your sales essentially, especially when you don't have the leads. Yeah.
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Yes. Yes. So there's no demand. Correct. There's a, it's a very different conversation. If you run, if you have a very, very big influence on social media, if you have the leads that kind of come in from that, you have the eyes on you. I think I don't have a big following. I don't like social media. I think that's anyways, that's another rant. But the idea behind it is like, I feel like low ticket offers devalue your service.
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It takes away from my ability, my expertise that I give to these individuals who come to me to solve solutions. But, and this is where we've been able to do this, is like the low ticket offer, which is not a low ticket offer. It's a results. It's a solution that I've come up with in the industry. Yeah.
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is like I can help other coaches be faster at things, give them time, give them the expertise of what I do. I program really, really well, really well. It's why I teach it in one of the best companies in the world in the education platform.
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It's like, this is what I do is I do programming, mass programming very, very effectively, individual client programming very effectively. So we've been talking about this for the last year of like, let's make this a product. And like, I don't, I'm not the smart one. You're the smart one. I just do the coaching things. And we've been building this. You are the master of your craft. Yes, I am. And I'm so okay with that.
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Because that's what I love doing. And this is why, like I've always said to you, it's like, I don't know marketing. I don't know that. And that's why I go to the master of the craft. It's the whole thing of like, you're not, I'm not going to come to you for fitness advice.
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I'm not going to write you a squat program. Yeah. You're not going to write me a squat program. That's going to get me around my injuries with my hip, with the way that I move with all of my shit. I'm sorry, Jen. Like I'm not, but I'm going to come to you when I'm like, but you don't sell that. And that's the point because you know what your craft is. Yeah. And you're fucking good at that. So you sell that. And I know what I'm good at, but we just didn't quite know how to sell what I was good at in this, this mass market style.
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Well, we were learning. Yeah, we were really learning the market and doing research in terms of determining product market fit because it wasn't just a coach mentoring offer. You had done and do coach mentoring. This was more of a,
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your offer now is make time, make money because you've done the programming for them, right? And it's not robotic AI generated programs that you can't trust that'll put somebody in a freaking wheelchair. We're not going to bag on AI, but I'm just saying it's not James.
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Yeah, and it doesn't have the years of expertise. It doesn't have yet. Fuck, we'll never know where AI is going. But it doesn't have what I can offer. It doesn't have my master of craft yet. But the idea, and this is where, like you're saying, we're trying to find this market fit and like,
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it was working in certain aspects and I've got a couple of companies that we've been like testing it with to a certain degree, trying to find the fit. And I think that's part of like product development. And we've got it now. And yeah, we've got it a hundred percent, but, and, and I think this is a, such a, a vital thing to point out. I haven't changed my business. Yeah.
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I haven't been like, oh, this is me now. I just do this and forget about my current clients and forget about servicing everyone from that standpoint. Because that's also what I love and always do love and look after is my clients, my – I hate this – my why.
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I don't like that word. I love knowing your why. What is it, James? Tell us. Tell us your why. Let's reflect. My why. No, but it's true. You stuck to the one thing. You have stuck to the one thing. You do one thing really fucking well, and now you know what you have changed? You haven't changed your business. You've changed your customer. You have elevated from the end user by vertically integrating to now essentially selling to businesses.
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Yes. And I think this is what needs to happen. This is what a lot of people forget in this like low ticket offer thing. They've like been coaching for whatever, six months, a year, and they're kind of doing okay with that. And they haven't like jumped full into it. Or they're not, they haven't given it the time that a lot of these things do need and deserve. And then their next solution is like, I'm not getting leads and my clients are not like, I'm not growing the business from that standpoint. Yeah.
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I'm just going to offer something at a lower price because that's what we need right now. The market needs a lower offer. And I was like, are you fucking kidding me? No. Why would you go down the value chain and make more work? It really actually makes no sense, right? I'm going to do more and essentially devalue my time. Because if I could make $100 an hour or a week with a client I spend one hour with,
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Now I'm going to do nothing all week and I'm going to spend 12 weeks or however long building this thing that I'm going to make 12 bucks a week from. You need 60 people and you've just got a headache. That's what you've got. All right. And those people, it pays to pay, like invested people are invested people. People will get better results and become better testimonies to you. I honestly feel like it's so clear when you want to grow a business, it's like do a
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do one thing for one group of people, do it really well, continue to do it really well, make it better, ask them how you can make it even better. And then essentially you elevate from there. Once you've got the undeniable burden of proof that you're really good at what you do, then you can teach other people how to do what you do if you want to, or do it for people who help those people. And then you kind of keep doing that and then you diversify. But instead what happens is people are like,
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I'm not really getting the sales. Maybe I'm too expensive. So I'm going to charge more. And if you don't know economics, it's sell me this pen. It's supply and demand. If you already don't have demand for your services, why do you think that more people will come when it's cheaper when there are workout programs for free on the internet?
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Yes. And the organogram of how you describe like a business should evolve, especially in the fitness industry, especially in the fitness industry around what we're talking about. It's like,
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Mark, I use Mark for this analogy because I, you know, I worked with him from that standpoint. I've got a good relationship with him from there. So he's got a goal-introver. I've got a goal-introver. I think we're like... Best friends. We're best friends. Yay. But the idea behind it is like Mark did bikini girls really, really, really well.
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really well and he continued to do bikini girls really really well and he got known for doing the bikini girls very very well and then what did he do he didn't like jump out and start doing anything else what did he brought up bikini girl what was it build the bikini guide one or uh building the
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That one. Close enough. Close enough. One. And, like, everyone jumped onto that. And then two. And then three. And that's the, that stacking, that organigram. He didn't go, he didn't go, ah, I'm going to just try and, like, build powerlifters. Yeah. Yeah.
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And also to anybody listening to this and then thinking that means they can do it, Mark also coached thousands of people. Thousands. For a long, long time. And that's what people forget from this. Mark didn't just like happen in six months.
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Yeah, I know. And people forget that. But you know, this irritates me as well, right? And this is something that I'm mindful of with the clients I attract. I won't work with somebody who just wants to make money. I ask what your why is at the start. I ask it. I want to know what it is. I want to know why you're here. And if somebody says, I really just need to make more money, that's really not the answer I'm looking for. Money is a byproduct of passion. And when you've... Yes, yes.
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Right, it's a byproduct. So I want people who want to make an impact. I want to work with people who want to change the world or want to essentially create something that is of value and they have integrity to their word. And when somebody says, I just want to make money, they're the hardest clients to work with because they don't care. They don't provide you with anything. They don't care about their clients. I care more about their clients than they do. And then I end up coming up with all the ideas that,
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for their client experience, which is really just me asking you, where can you put your personality into the experience so that people feel like they've got to bond with you? Because at the end of the day, you're a one-on-one coach. And if you think people are going to pay somebody that they don't know so that you can go and sit and sip cocktails on the beach, you need, somebody needs to give you a wake-up call and this is it.
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to punch you in the face. Like, ring, ring, ring. Hello. We're calling with some rude awakenings today. Thanks for tuning in. But this is it. And this is like a part of it is society's delayed gratification and the inability to, you know, delay the gratification, delay the success from that standpoint. Because we do. Everyone wants the quick buck. The how do I make as much money as I can in six months?
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It's been glamorized to a certain degree with these overnight successes, which are not generally overnight successes. They're usually a very long period of time, and suddenly they hit the golden nugget, and they're able to do these things. It frustrates me because it's time in the trenches.
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You have to put the work in. You didn't just start kind of dabbling in the fitness thing and doing marketing and then be like, yeah, I'm, I'm a, I'm an expert. Come to me, give me money. Get 20 grand, 20 grand to work with me. Like, no, how many years? Fuck you. We worked at for a long time and we got fucked over there. And then we continued on. That shall not be named. That shall not be named Voldemort over there.
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but like that. And, but this is it. It's time in the trenches and you can get ready. You, you can, you can speed up your results as a coach, which will then speed up the longterm approach and like building up your client base and getting these things. That's where you can speed up this. In my opinion, you can't speed up making money other than not getting really good results.
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Learn from the individuals who have put their time in the trenches and then put your time in the trenches and make up yours. This is my ick. And get them. This is my ick with the online space in the sense that…
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With what I do, I work with service providers who want to create a scalable business by scaling online. A lot of the people I work with have been doing what they do in person. And they weren't, to be fair, I can work with anybody, not just personal trainers. I've worked with mortgage brokers and property buyers and makeup artists and beauticians and all the rest. But let's talk about the fitness coaching space or online coaching space. I think there's a lot of people sitting around somewhere in a job that they don't like.
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and they decide I'm going to become an online coach. And it's like, okay, well, what are you going to sell? And now it's like mindset, because you can cheer somebody on after a weekend in some course, right? And I'm so sensitive about this can of worms that I'm going down because I'm not having a stab, but I'm just saying, if you do do that, please do it after you've made your traumatic life, recovery, value, enlightening,
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growth to then show you what it is that you can do. But I just feel there's a lot of people who think, you know what, I'm going to go online. And it's like me sitting here going, you know what, James, I've had a good run. I think I'm going to start building houses. Off I go.
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What? I've never stepped in that house ever because it's going to fall on me. I'll call you, James. How do I turn the lights on? I wouldn't even make it that far. No. But here's the next thing to this and to add to it as well. It's like I'm still in a certain way. I'm still against people moving online. And hear me out.
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A lot of people haven't spent enough time creating a connection with a human individual in front of them. And now you want to try and create a client, a face-to-face client. And now you want to try and create an interaction, a relationship, communication skills via a screen. It's fucking hard. People don't talk about this more. Online coaching is double the work to face-to-face.
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Yeah, well also, it's not as enjoyable because you lose the environment that you love. I've seen this happen. Yes. Just to interject here, I've had a lot of clients actually completely drop face-to-face because they've grown so successful with online and they've come back and said, I want to continue doing face-to-face because I like it. I'm happy there. You will trade a job in the gym on your feet, clocking 50,000 steps a day, working your own hours.
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for a computer job. And, you know, that's kind of what happens. And a leadership job. You have to learn leadership skills. You have to learn delegation skills. It's a completely different requirement. You do change your business when you go from face-to-face to online. And the skills that are required change as well. And so it does bring with it a level of, you know, it comes back to knowing what it is that you want to do. And if you have the business acumen and the business mind that says, I want to reinvest to continue to build, whether you want to write books, create activewear,
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create supplements, build an app, build a business that does what you do by the true core value at large, that's fine. But if you just want to make money, that's fine too. But do you want to be unhappy doing it?
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Yes, and that's it there. It's like I love the very rare occasional interactions with clients who will come into town or see them somewhere around Gold Coast, something like that, and I get to train with them.
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Or I get to do the like hands-on stuff. Or when I teach for pre-script and we do our in-person seminars and like I get to have that human, the face-to-face interaction. Fuck, I love it. I love people. As much as I hate people, I love people. I love dogs better. But like I love the interaction, the human connection side of it. Because that's like, that's my why. Why?
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I love it too. I love going into the office. I don't have an office, but I'll come into yours if you'll have me and I'll sit there for a day. I love a whiteboard. I love boardrooms. I love, I used to go to work with my dad as a kid and just go pretend to present to people in the boardroom and draw on the whiteboard.
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and go have big meetings with my imaginary friends. So I get it. You have to still be, you have to love what you do, right? Yes, yes, that's it. You do have to have the passion. You do have to have the drive. You do have to have, you do have to understand that it's fucking lonely.
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And that it's hard. And it sucks sometimes. Oh my God, it can be isolating. And it's isolating. And it's all of the negative things and more than it is positive. But the positive things, if you have your passion right and you have –
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You have your drive attached to that passion. It's beautiful. It provides value. It provides everything that you wanted to help individuals. And then you get the benefit of that, whether it's monetary, whether it's spiritual from that side, whether it's the fact that you know you've made a difference in someone's life.
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you understand that there is a sacrifice. There is, I'm taking this full circle. Fucking look at this. There is consequences to actions. It's the punch in the face and it's being punched in the face. Yeah. And on that note. And that's where we wrap it up, folks. The moral of the story is, I guess we can drop that mic. Drop it there.
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That was an episode. Thank you so much. Honestly, wow. We have to do that again, I feel. And people, listeners, thank you. I love your feedback. We love your feedback. Please do hit us up if you listen to this. Share it. Tag Coach James Mack on Instagram and go say, hey, I said to James before we jumped on air, I don't really need to give you an intro because everyone should know who you are. And if you don't, now you do. And if you're still listening, we love to hear from you. Please also do leave a review. And just like that, I'm a poet. And I...
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Definitely did know it. Don't do that. Don't do that thing. Thank you.
