Drew Potter

00:00:35
Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. Thank you for buddy, it's such a pleasure to have you. Yes, thanks thanks for having me. It's a it's a retreat. It is so good to see you. It's been far too long. We talk about you all the time, and we miss you so much. I appreciate the accolades. It's I really miss you, guys. I gotta say, nothing's been since. It's true. It's really kidding that that unfortunately, well I'm for unfortunately. That comes up in the show quite a bit. In the podcast quite a bit we talk about how we none of us really seem to have matched the experience that we had whilst we were on the show, which is a shame, but I guess a good thing at the same time makes it unique. Well, without further ado, welcome back to return to the Shadows. We have on our show today, a very very special guest, someone who is near and dear to both of us and probably has seen far too much of our faces. Welcome our a camera operator, Drew Potter. Thank you very much and never too much gott to say. You don't just know how to make it all work. There's a lot of fun working with you. It was that's very sweet. Before we dive into the sort of deepest stuff, why don't you tell us a little about who you are and what your job was on the show. I'm Drew Potter. I'm I was the a camera operator on that series from season two and season three in the season finale as well. It's been twenty five years as a camera operator, but also dabbling in other things. Once I get a little boored, I take to move on and change it up for a little while, and then I usually come back to operating because that's my first passion. Amazing, So how did you become a camera operator? What got you into this line of work, How did you get started? What was the original inspiration? I just I saw Star Wars when I was when I was sixteen, and it just blew me out of the water, and it was kind of visual effects I was attracted to. But ultimately I live in Canada and there are no big visual effects houses here where it was all about. It was an all in the US and there was just that wasn't really in the cards. And moved to the US and started that. But I was still fascinated with the camera and my dad had given me his camera stills camera. I shually shoot a lot of little stills when I was just a kid, and then I got a superhero camera when I was a little around the sixteen year age there are, and played with that and editing and putting music to it and just having some fun with some friends, being little stories, a little vignettes. And then it just I was in school and I was taking sort of a lot of math and science and I was going to be you know, a chiropractor or a pharmacist or something like that. Yeah, something sensible and practical and you know, reliable. Yeah, the parent pleasers, Yes, parent pleasers. That's right. And then the eleventh hour, it was, you know, I'm kind of interested in this film thing. There there there any film schools around, and we're talking to the guidance counselor about it. But we got like two weeks left to get applications in. Yeah, there's still time. And he threw me a couple of schools that had did it. Yeah, And I just dropped you the last second, and I told my parents what I was doing it. Uh, well, we support you whatever you do, you know, I think your parents to do that. I feel like, unfortunately, I think actually now like in the last of five years, it's become much more common for that to be the parents' reaction because it's so visual that you can see people succeeding in it. But I think, I mean, my parents were very supportive as well, but my school teachers definitely weren't of my career choice. There's very a lot more trepidous of the concept of me going out on a women and trying this. So it's it's really nice day that your parents supported you through that. Hm. You know, it's a If it wasn't for their support, I wouldn't have been I wouldn't have made it, that's for sure, because you need that kind of help, funding, accommodation, helping for tuition on things like that. So and then I just kind of kept my focus at getting into camera and being a camera operator, perhaps possibly a director photography one day. It was sort of the real goal. And once I finished college, I started working at an animation post production house UM where we did a lot of graphics and maps and charts and credits from movies. So I kind of got the back end of it first and then dealt with a lab and there was a problem and it was just a small house. It was just two or three of us there, the boss and me and out of the guy. And that was a couple of years ago for my pa years. That's sort of what it was. I was get into it and getting more involved with understanding how to get into a union or become a trainee. There's trainee's programs for the camera departments and whatnot. So I sort of joined as a trainee and then slow just started migrating my way through the system. UM twenty for two years, second system for four, a focus puller for five, and then he came in a camera operator. It was just sort of and the opportunities were just sort of unfolded themselves at the break time. Just I just took the up, just took a chance as you can, as you have to. Yeah, it's interesting. I was. I was just at breakfast this morning with a producer friend of mine who did Vampire Academy with us all those years ago, Dpack and he was he was talking about he's he's such a go get or entrepreneur, has his fingers and so many pies at any time, and said, how do you keep yourself focused with all of this? And he says, you gotta take every opportunity that's in front of you. You know, you get one of these, you get one life. If you're lucky you lived at eighty. The first ten years you can't really do anything. The last ten years you probably won't be able to do anything. So you've got sixty years, sixty years to get something that you enjoy. And the three of us can all say that we've been very lucky, and we do something that we enjoy every day. We've got to take those opportunities. You've got to take as many and as often as you can before I mean, unless they break you. But I think any of us have been Maybe we've been closed a couple of times, those long, long evenings, long fridays to turn into Saturday mornings. But still we're still powering through. Absolutely absolutely. Well that's that's the fun of it. And then I guess basically I did. It was camera operating for a while, and then I had an opportunity on a TV series I worked on to do directing. So I got into directing world for I guess about seven years. I did about thirty two, about forty hours of television, and then realized it was not my forte. It was just too stressful, a lot of anxiety associated with it, a lot of politics, and I was just I and I actually left the business after twenty five years of being involved and did completely different for like five or six years, and then Shadow Hunters was my main return back to full time work. Wow. So interesting. I didn't know that. I didn't know that about directing. Yeah, it's like straight from your mouth, but also sort of subconsciously, I think, kind of new because it's very You were always very good at translating for some of the directors who couldn't necessarily articulate exactly what they were saying. You know, it's private moments with you and I where it's like, this is what they're asking for, and I'm like, oh, I got it. Thank God, Otherwise I wouldn't known. Yeah, but that's something I always appreciated so much about you and about Glenn as well as and all of the camera teams on Shadow Hunters, is that we had such a rapport between actors and camera department. And I fully credit you guys for teaching me how to make television on the technical side, because I didn't know what I was doing when we first started this show, and at least you know how to make a TV show technically and how to help and be a participant in the camera situation of it all. And you all were so kind to take the time to plain things to us and to translate and to to allow us to work together instead of that sort of wall that sometimes exists between the cast and the camera. I've always been in the impression that if if the performers understand what we're doing and and and then they can resonate to that, they can they can be Okay, I'm over here. This is what we should be. It shouldn't be I'm not in the shadow over here, I'm in the light. Always see that now, all these little things and the marketing floor is sometimes important and sometimes not so important, And and you just have to let them know that so they can have a little less very pointed. We literally said days ago, yeah, like two days ago, we were talking about how like the most recent TV show I did, I'd be camera operator. Patrick used to give me a lot of shit. He would look at me. We're in New York, and you look at me and go, hey, man, you see that mark on the floor. Yeah, it's not a fucking suggestion that's where your feet should be, and I'd look down as like three feet behind me and I'm like a dude, sorry, oh wow, because you just can't get it because doing other things, you know, it's it's it's complicated to be on that side of the camera. And there's no doubt about that. That's why behind the camera yeah yes, and no doubt you were do an amazing job in front of the camera as well. I think the interesting thing is who was it? It was either you or Glenn who was talking about an actor from like the Fourties who used to do They would do a look. So like we as actors and camera few people within the industry, you can always tell when an actor walks in and has a little look down to know exactly where your toes need to stop, because it's you know, it's a type moment, whatever it is. You just have a little and it's a mark check like that that actor just did a mark check. They haven't look and that's the landing right where they need to. Lads who made that thing, Tracy, Yeah, come in and he would do the pensive like look. It would always start a seeings like I'm thinking about something. Something's going on, would spot his mark and then go straight to it. Yea, he worked, He worked in this part of his thing. Brilliant. Hey, whatever works. If you can hit your mark and make it work, it's brilliant. I think. Yeah, but that's you know. That's one of the things also that I appreciated so much of about the show is that we all got to be such a symbiotic system. After a while, the directors started to would come into the situation, most of them at least, and see that and sort of trust you guys to kind of, yeah, play jazz a little bit with some of the shots and with us and find those moments that you know, you can set up a camera in a point and try and catch a moment, but if you see something because you know the way we moved through a space and you kind of can predict the way that we're going to go about a scene. After watching us for so long, you catch things that other people wouldn't because we're kind of all on the same wavelength as it were. And I think that added so much to the show. And there were so many moments watching the show back that I remember, oh, yeah, that wasn't that wasn't. How it was planned, that was just Drew being creative and it added so much. And that's directors well, and having being a director and being parachuted into different sets, different shows, you appreciate the cruise input because it just makes you, the director, look better, and that makes the actors feel more comfortable because they're there's environment and I'm not the guy coming in to change everything all of a sudden and uh, and then what's going on here? And it's trying to keep trying to keep it consistent with the other episodes, and you're always looking for help from the director photography for sure, but it does it becomes this as Cats saying, you know, you we fall into this space and we were very lucky on Shadow Hunters. Maybe this I think probably the large reason why we haven't found this again is that symbiosis, that level of fluidity that we had on a set where we did all sort of get on or at least at the very least understand each other or understand the motivations behind whatever it is. I think having that that, that ability to flow through whatever the day is, no matter how hard it is, by relying on the people that we trust, is so important and so fundamental and something that we found on or I don't want to take words out of anyone's mouths, but I think we can also we found something like that on Shadow Hunters, which is really quite special. Definitely yeah, and speaking to that. So, how did you end up in our shadow family? Well? Probably to this world. Uh. Well, Mike McMurray, the director photography, uh was aware that I was leaving my other concept of seven years, which was I'm ready to come back to work now because I head of getting phone calls from people saying, you know, we missed you where you've been? And I would start doing dailies on different shows just see camera in the back, and it's uh, I kind of started remembering, this is what I love? Is this coming right back to me very quickly, which is why my direction to begin with. So eventually Mike cut win that I was, you know, back, you know, doing dailies and a round and and then he I mean I just shut down what I had done in April, and I mean like literally three weeks later, he gave me a phone call and says, I'm doing this fantasy show in August. Do you want to do it with me? Back the old team back together again, and of course I'd be delighted to and the next thing that was the next thing. It was, you know, forty episodes over two years of you were for No had no idea, and I had finally got a hold of what the show was called, and I could I tracked it down on the internet and I could watch a few episodes and start to understand what it was about. And but you know, the idea was it was going to be not that show, yes, but darker and more adult because adults were watching it, not the kids that I was really meant for in the beginning. Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, where the you thought? Heinsi'n to say so when I have to say it was a it was a slam when I came in because I think working with Matt Hastings, with an American gentleman that came up to directing him just show runner and he did the first a few episodes it kind of give us the look and that was my things, Well, what's the style of this show? What's what's the look? I know you're changing it up, but and Mike was said, well, we just we haven't really talked about that. We didn't think you should be talking about that. He had no idea, No, it was just this organic thing about about how to shoot it. Yeah, it was gonna be long lens cinematography. Okay, I understood that part of it. But you know what else, and you know, well, that's gonna be low. Of course it's going to be low. It's huge, dramatic, and it's it's fun as action. So but Matt basically had his ideas and I think he sort of imbued on me the first week of what he was thinking the show should be, and it was him sort of training us to understand where you can go and push the limits. He was looking for something more stylized than than just traditional TV where everybody's center punched and they do their line to you walk away. He wanted something that had a flare to it in a way. Don't don't don't take all the rules of composition. This is me interpreting now going back. Don't take all the rules of composition and make it work. Push it. And I just embraced that because I was just kind of having done operating for so long. Everybody went to so perfect in terms of television in the center slightly off, I guess, start pushing the sides, I guess start trimming into eyebrows for close ups that had you a certain amount of energy to it because the shots is not quite right. But yeah, but the scene is heightened, and it seemed to add to it visually what was what was going on? And uh, and the cutting was so quick that you never really got to hang on a shot that was maybe uncomfortable for some people to watch for a while, but somewhere else right now, let's discuss that a little more, because you and I had one particular problem in general, there was one shot that I couldn't get through that I really struggled with at any point. And there's it's very common in TV, especially young adult TV. It's called a slow pushing, and it happens at the end. It happens at the end of like a scene where something fucking dramatic has happened or whatever. And it would give me a look like we're going to do the slow pushing, and I'm like, okay, my best and the camera normally on the dolly like cuts this entire giant piece of kit with three men on it, all of whom you trust, all of whom you want to impress, you know, they're a part of our team. Starts slowly making its way towards your face, and you have to just hold whatever it was wherever you were looking and this, you know, two tons of equipment is sort of coming towards you slowly, slowly, And I still do this day struggle with it. I get over it. It is, Yeah. I think it's because it's daunting. I think it's there's a lot of like pressure with with get. I don't know, I don't know, but because you know you had anywhere else, that's the moment it's okay, we're here, this is it. Yeah, this is it, and yeah, yeah absolutely because the customhere else there'll be white charge, there's other places to go, but this moment is right here, right now. Yea. So they just always remember they would have to do them in series. For you, Tom, We're gonna do it and then go back and do this podcast. The more we've realized that Tom's not a very professional actor, I think I destroyed my career by doing this podcast. I don't really recall you missing marks all the time you talk about it, but I don't really recall that that's being really that's because you guys are good at your job. That's what it is like. If I was out of focus, you'd pull out or someone would would trim the focus a little to would be on that. Yeah. Mark, Mark was so on top of it and he's like, Okay, I'm just gonna fix this. It is okay now he's a focused, fabulous yeah. And then coming into shadow Hunters as it's a new thing for me. Even the camera team were people that I well, Mark was my trainee, but may before you came Focused about or years ago, so I knew Mark, but most of the team I did not know that Mike had been working with for the last I guess seven or eight years on different shows. So I'm like this new guy to them and they're all new to me, and uh, it was. It was. That first week was really rough. I do remember that day four, driving into that big boat on that August hot day and Mike. If it wasn't for being surrounded by friends, because I didn't know everybody on some level, even the Dolly gripped him, we went way back. I probably would have quit because it was so it was just such a wall. It was. I wasn't up to that speed. I having left another show, I haven't done anything, you know, the year past. It was just a different invite completely and they're bang slammed into this fourteen hour days community. Just it was just a real handful. It took a little while to get up to speed, and we threw you in at the deep end as well. We didn't throw you in with like a nice warm up episode where everyone was just on the beach fucking chilling out, like we threw you into an episode. It like jump on the top of a container ship. There's going to be an alarm that happens every now and then. Nobody knows what that means. So everyone just evacuate and then we're back on the ship and everybody remember And it turned out to be the phone ringing. It's so loud in the engine room that they had to that's how loud the phone has to be. It was just like even for as it was chaos, and we had each other to rely and we worked with each other for a year. So kudos to you because we again we've spoken about this in relation to actors more. It's daunting. Coming in halfway through something where people have set themselves up is really daunting, and then coming into be such an integral piece of our storytelling process is even more daunting. So hats off to you because because that's really it's really something, it's really an achievement you should feel very proud of. Well, thank you, thank you. That's a and that's part of the reason why we wanted to have Glenn around on b camera because it gave some sort of continuity in the camera department from season one to season two. And he's a very talented gentleman and Mike has worked with him in the past, so it just seemed like a perfect fit to have Glenn, you know, continue to be there and be our our continuity and ask him questions when we were sort of stumped on something and you would clarify for us. It really was amazing to watch all of you work together and just the sort of collaboration and sharing of information and sort of everyone's artistic opinions and choices, but still trying to keep the consistency of the show. It taught me a lot. And just observing our crew work together and the collaboration and the sort of symbiosis that we all found it it really it taught me a great deal. So thank you for that. That's great. Well, you're most welcome. It was a pleasure, truly. Yeah, you sort of took the weds out of my mouth and little Couch is great. The way you guys yelled with each other, especially A and B camera, was really special. I've been on shows where that hasn't been the case, and that's been a little like because I feel like on set what people don't know sometimes is there is a lot of eggshell treading. No matter which department you're in, there's a lot of it. There's always someone above you, and there's always someone where. Very often on set you're like, we need to be a little cautious around this person or this person. You don't want to upset this person, you don't want to mess up this or do whatever. And I think that dissipated fairly quickly on our show, which is nice. Again, I'm just speaking for myself, Drew, I don't know about yourself, but it felt very It felt like every day we brushed away some more of those eggshells to the point where we got to this like we would we were a team. This is a full team, Like nobody is more important than anybody else. Nobody was looking up or down at anybody, and we had this this sort of unit together. Yeah. I felt about the third episode we were we were in the hospital. Third episode, I think we were. Yeah, we were just kind jelling at that point. I know Mike had reservations about my performance because it was a little rusty, and I remember I was talking about it like around episode seven where he was reflecting back and he was really ill one day, but you know, hanging in there by the monitors, and I just kind of took over and because he wasn't there to do anything. I mean, so it's just a gaffer myself, and he says, I remember thinking, oh, thank god Drew was back, because I wasn't really kicking over in the beginning. I was just trying to feel it all out and just kind of a sense of what the show was about and not doing the thing that I that he liked. You know. Yeah, you're obviously so talented, and the people at home obviously recognized that as well, because whether you see it or you don't see it. In fact, almost if you don't see it, it's better if you're seeing something and you go, oh that was cool, or it sent shivers up your spine. Nine times out of ten. That was camera work that made that happen because it was it's an angle or a fragrance that you've seen on the screen, which is which is you know, so fundamental to what we do. Um, but it's so nice. God, can you I like imagine, I haven't been in my career long enough, but this this is the dream, right is to have people who you work around, who who so in love with what you do that they want to keep bringing you back. M hmm. That's true. Wonderful thing too, is it's I know we all are you know, camera thunder, camera thunders about the picture because it's a movie. But you know there's so much more that goes into what is at the end. You know, I was reviewing someone I haven't really watched shoutow Henderson. We've worked on it to just see the show cut and oh why did you use that shot? And you know, criticize it like that. We think the same thing about our own performance as Droe. It's fine, we're like, oh that shot, why Catherine, why did you make that face? I don't know. Somewhere for some reason, the editors seem to think they work that's why it's in there. He picks, the gold stuff, the gold nuggets, and uh, I guess I was for watching the show more as a fan now than as a technician because so much time had he lapsed and and and the visual effects were just astounding, and hey, yes they were, and that was a big part of the show as well, very heavy, heavy visual effects. I sort of jumped in, you know, like my season three premiere, season mid season and leaving and then the season finale, the kind of thing to the startup of the last movie, the last episode and that whole ring of fire and the demons and that. Yeah, I mean I were just standing there on this as that's what we're doing, and I mean the fire in the flame and everything's going and the camera's going around and I just remember doing that shot where everybody's a different height and somehow I got to land on everybody before I got they're down here. I get okay, we're up down here, and then they're back up for here and then back. Just had to really keep that in my head. Yeah, why didn't we fix that work? I was such an easy that's not even like a technical We put everyone on apple boxes, raise everyone up to Matt tight and it's because they didn't notice. Because Drew's so talented, he just fixed it before anyone into the shot and nobody knew you noticed it at all. And you know, you want to keep the actors heightst because that's part of who they are too. We know Emeralds a little true and then yeah, than Matt and we put up to die his height. Well everybody funny, Yeah, free for all. Yeah, it would just not be it would not feel right, It'd be something off. We're not sure what it is. But it's weird about that shot, and you don't want to viewer out of it, you know that way. Yeah, well that's you know, it's not dance again that we all learn to do as we're working together for so long. And speaking of that's something Domini talk a lot obviously about the fight scenes on the show and what it took to film those and from our perspective, but you you were so amazing during every fight scene. You've done something I've never seen another camera operator. Do You had an apple box on wheels that you would put the handhook camera on your shoulder and just be able to run around on a lower level and be so mobile and so agile to be able to get around us and catch these little moments. I've never seen anything like it, So talk to us a little bit about that, and do you like shooting fight scenes? Is it fun for you? Is it stressful? What's what's your experience with that, and sort of your point of view at times? It's all those things because I do watch the rehearsal very closely to kind of get a sense. Said, you know, the timing of how many how many hits punches? Well, we had swords and stuff, so extra room required at times to just doing this thing. And I know the stunt people and the actors are well aware of us, but sometimes you can lose that moment, but I still want to be safe. But it's it's it's a bit frightening, but I kind of depend on the director. You kind of know what the style is going to be. You're gonna have your wide shot and it would always can be moving, but the low applebox thing, A lot of times I would just go in there and sit with no movement for a couple of shots. And then it was tim My dolly Grip who came up with this idea of just putting it on in some castors and uh, you know the old butt dolly, and and off I went, you know, on a little pad and it was just he didn't have to push me around. He would pull me, I guess, or he would help assist back. It be really mobile on my own to a certain degree, and it just kept that fluidity and a lot of times the shot was bad getting in it, it it didn't matter to me because you're gonna go somewhere else and uh and almost being at that moment if it works. Yeah, So I did end u kemping out of the wave of the swords because they were high and I was kind of down low, so I kind of yeah, and they were very tall. Brave job there, because again I don't think people realize. I mean, you have your your second peripheral vision, but very often that's closed, right, so you can see through the viewfinder unless you've got the screen. But then if you have the screen, you're looking down at the screen and not up necessarily at the action you're trying of mind, you know these pieces and there are these big heavy swords and we've spoken about it, you know, the warm days, the tippers bendy so you can't stab anyone, but the edges of it are heart. If you get hit by them, they suck, They really suck. And then the cold days that tip froze and it was it was sharp. It ended up being very shard. Yeah, it was. It was just a dull, dulled blade, yes, exactly. And an improvement from first season from the swords, I have to say, no kidding, yeah, huge improvement. We just spoke to to John Locations Management and he has my sword, my one that I used on the show, like still with the dates. It was like on his wall behind me. It was like, no, way, that's awesome. Yeah, it's amazing. You at great keep saying that's nice. Yeah, So are there any what was there the sort of a two part question, what was your favorite seat of Shadow Hunters to shoot and what was the most difficult if you can think of one. Oh, you know, I just I was struggling with that question. I saw it um favorite scenes. I just I don't have a specific scene that's favorite. I just I preferred shooting in the institute because there was a lot of room and there and we could do a lot of different things in there and still have the same kind of background and still environment, but still make feel it was different I liked Magus's apartment as well because the rooms in the rooms in the rooms, and there was depth there and you had a lot of fun with that too. So I can't really say, per se there was a scene that's memorable, because they just were. They were all fun in their own way and they were all unique in their own way. I guess the biggest logistical thing that we had to do, and I don't think it made the movie. I don't think the scene got in there. And I was trying to look for that yesterday, but it was. We were in the Institute Arboretum, which is actually a location. It was Alan Gardens with a big dome greenhouse and all the plants were inside. Usually's dead a winter outside inside you know, the Caribbean, and very humid and warm in there. And the director wanted to have a high angle shot. And when you look up in this dome, you see, oh yeah, there is a platform up there, but you know it looks you know, it's this plywood on you know, suspended from the ceiling. And to get up there is wow. I got to scale the wall with a with a ladder attached to it, and uh, and you have to you're working at heights permit or anything over ten feet, and that was thirty thirty five feet in the air. So well, Mark, my sister and I would have had our tickets, so certainly we could get up there and get the shot for him. And that took us about twenty minutes or so just to get climb up there, with safety harnesses and doing your ringing and attaching as we went along. And then the guys go up there from meeting. It's all the time. It's no big deal. There's a heating unit or condition you know there they have to get access to. So when we finally made our way up there and and I was like, well, I'm exhausted now just climbing the whole thing. Now we got to drop a rope down that we brought up with us so they could hook up the gear equipment and we can lift it up to us and uh, and then get the shot. You trypod because I'm looking down, don't want to hand hold it and fear if I drop it. And get it all up there and get it set and you clear out the sketches of the frame and uh, and then the scene went on. But I don't recall ever seeing that done. I just remember seeing an image in the viewfinder. No. Yeah, and that kind of work never really seems you know, no one ever knows because I never see it, right, I mean that right, atto effort to get there for a scene that just didn't make the cut because it didn't advance a story, it didn't have time for it. Goodn't It's gracious. I mean there's so many moments like that though, that you you really are in the trenches with us, morning, noon and night. In the we just watched re watched the episode with all of the fluff flying through the air dra that was horrible. Yeah. I just always think about every time I show up a set and our entire camera crews in you know, has met suits and masks because they have to be in the thick of it with us, and we're all going, huh, but we were very good. Yeah, sure this is going to be okay. But again, it was so amazing to be able to have someone like you in the trenches with us because we can always count on you to get the shot and we know you'll make it worth our while even if we're in the worst of conditions. Yeah, it was tough in there. I think the only person I had an advantage for for being on set was was Alan because he had had a full mask on and he was sort of tied up there and there was nothing to him and we were all like just coughing up puts peoples at lunch time. It was this. You just said, Yeah, I was coughing them up for like three days. I was blowing them out of my nose for like three days. It was absolutely horrendous. Never again. Yeah, I remember marketing up the camera at the end of the night and it was just endless, a little vacuum in the air and it was just coming under all the crabs. I didn't know it had you could get stuff in there. Oh, it was as bad as sad, it seemed to be. I was just about to say, it's like sad you go to the beach with your backpack one time. That sand is never leaving your backpack, no matter what it seem. But that's an interesting point. So you're talking about Mark cleaning up the camera again. I think we've mentioned this on the podcast before, but I think it's important to know with you drew yourself for audience members out there, these guys, you know, we do the fight scene stuff, and you got that must have been a tough day, and they ask us about it very often it conventions and whatever. You know, is that a hard day or whatever? And you go, yeah, to an extent, you know, you do. You do the emotional stuff that takes some stuff out of you, do the physical stuff that takes some stuff out of you. You got to remember that Drew and his team got there an hour before us, and they don't leave till an hour after us. But for the audience out there, it's very important to remember that these guys do this incredible job and they're carrying around what is your camera way twenty five pounds? No, it's approached that the in the mid forties, that camera was probably actually at times close to fifty depending what kind of lens was on there at lens Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can you say these guys were in the trenches, They were really in the trenches. They worked harder than we did. They continue to work harder than we do always. They really are and I've used this phrase before, I know I have. I don't want to sound like a broken record, but I will. They really are the unspoken heroes of our industry. Like nothing gets done without them, and we get far too much credit for doing what we do. When Drew and his team and John and his team, and Glenn and his team and everyone behind the scenes put this together, we're just literally the tip of the iceberg that can be seen. It's true. But we're there to make you look good. That's our job, and that's why they have to work so hard. Yeah, I don't know. It's hard work, man, it's hard work. Yeah. But you guys rehearse those fights scenes like I mean, it's a week before you know, getting it worked out, getting it down. That's still time and effort in shape. Yeah. On good episodes, we have a week. Some episodes we have an hour. So yeah, exactly. Okay, what's that move again? That was one again. Actually we've spoken about that about that day, but you not being here, and I feel like we should revisit it with you. Here is the fight scene on the rooftop with the angel and all the lightning is one that we can't and I had to rehearse that day as they changed everything and they changed the flooring of the snary, so we had to rerehearse the whole thing that day, and the one on the rooftop where I'm the demon. Yeah, where you trying to kill me? Where? Because that one we had a time crunch. Yeah, everyone was given new information. We were under a time crunch. And the credit for the both of those scenes goes to you and Glenn and your teams because I remembered that you had two tracking dollies at the same time, so you were trying to avoid each other whilst carrying the action as well while stealing with this consistent strobing light that just blinded everybody. It was a nightmare. Yeah. Well I remember in the other scene, the one where You're trying to kill me was like directing that episode? Or was he first ad? I can't remember. It was his first ad, so I just remember still it coming up to all four of us, you, Me, Glenn, and Dom and going okay, guys. Um. For the audience, I don't want to interrupt, but for the listening audience back home, I just want to acknowledge that Kat very briefly forgot my name. Really did not pause. I was completely forgetting who I was. It was only four years. It's totally fine. Don't chase dump, Chase dump, which one do I choose? But anyway, they him up to the four of us and said, we don't have any of the coverag yet, and we have eight minutes and that's all the time that we have. And this was, you know, a two three minute fight scene, and they just said, are you guys okay to just roll through it a few times, and we all just sort of looked at each other and went okay. And you two had handheld cameras and again trying to avoid each other, trying to avoid the action, and Domino just duking it out over and over and over again. And I was so worried about how it was going to cut together one of my favorite fight scenes that was cut together on the show. It turned out so beautifully and it would not have been possible without you two. So season two events, I think that was season three, because yeah, that was the hour. I just season three see a lot of it. I wanted to. I was playing back some of the episodes. I would jog my memory as to, you know, what had happened and behind the scenes stories, and I'm just I was pulling a blank. So yeah, I know I shot that. I recognized the style. Yeah, it happens to me all the time. Happens to. I've done rewatches where I'm watching an episode and go, it looks like me, But I don't really remember being there, remember doing any of this stuff. No, there's full scenes where I go, I don't remember this scene existing, let alone. I have no memories of shooting it. I don't was I there was this? Is there a clone? I don't know anymore. I think it has to be to do with these like these fourteen now a days that we fairly regularly pulled for two and a half three years, where there's only so much information you can take in and store. It has to be that has to be the case. You know. There was so many times times we were running on empty um and just you know, powered through because it's what we all love to do. But I am attributing it to that and not the drinking I do. It's real life, you know. I don't remember what you do every day in real life. You know, even you see a photograph, you go, oh, yeah, I remember taking that picture. It's just you just don't recall that kind of detail. You can't remember the moments where you get the feeling more than the actual event. Yea, I remember all of the cold days. I'll tell you that much. The outdoor cold days, I remember those. Oh but the best thing that ever was building that alleyway inside for the winter so we didn't have to be outside. I thought that was like a genius move. Thank goodness. Yeah, I think good as Matt Hastings didn't like being cold because it changed a lot of things. It sure did. And that's that's stage. That's that was impressive. I have to say the indoor look of it was really impressive. And there was a lot of logistics getting around that. Yeah, because they most of them were like functioning storefronts you could go inside and like they were all we played game on the show, whether it was a set or on location. And I want to say that this is one of the ones that people won't there's no way. There's no way you would know because we had a block either side of this, Like, there's no way you would know that this wasn't just a street in Toronto somewhere, and it had sure looks. I believed it could be in the Chinatown that we used a lot and uh and then just a residential neighborhood. And I don't know the third look. I don't think we re got to which was supposed to be more of a downtown business environment, urban, more urban, I guess, but we never got to that look of it. But that was the plan to do that. If it was, we Wow, that's amazing, and that's that's stayed there for quite a while afterwards, and there was nothing too about, you know, after everything had been torn down and I went back to that stage and do another show, it was no, you didn't, did you really? Yes? It was like right after Designated Survivor took over, our stages did. So the Oval office was now where the Institute was. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And we sort of kept on that side at this in stage one we had two stages there, but Stage two still had the old Shadow Hunters sets were still standing because there was no need to move in there right away. They slowly kind of eroded them, like I think Magnus's apartment finally got crushed away, but then I found parts of his parts of his apartment showing up in the design of the uh the next step, you know, the brick wall and the brick textures, and there the beautiful thing about recycling, because usually we're so wasteful in the film business that we could actually just get Tom to do reuse parts of the previous sets and blended into this new environment. But I have to say, being in the Oval office and being in that stage and was I hearing the echoes of your voices or is that just my headpline chicks on me or it was just really haunting and a little unsettling for the first little while. I'm sure. Well, speaking of speaking of these sets that sort of stuck in our memory, do you have any favorite sort of behind the scenes moments or is there anything that sort of sticks out to you as like this was fun and I enjoyed this day or this moment or this whatever it was. Well, the fun thing that we had was really nothing to do with the show in terms of being It was Halloween in twenty sixteen, and we just sort of decided to get dressed up, and I had this idea, why don't we just sort of be, you know, dressed up like a Star Trek Crew me like Dolly Gripp and my focus poll are also got the same page, and I ordered the costumes or the shirts anyways online about a month before and I just left them in a box on the camera trucks. If no one's going to bother. This unknown to me was that beat camera. Glen spotted that box and opened it and realized, well, wait a second. These guys that got Star Trek costume. So they had this idea that they were going to be the bad guys of Star Trenning, and they you know, found online the rap Glenn made the best rap, the best Cohn Union sing you know. Ever was a parallel to the movie. The thing is he'd never watched a Star track. He didn't really know anything about it, and uh but he you know, saw a picture and he could emulate that. And then the cure. His focus puller was a gourn and Nicole, the second assistant, she was a cling on and the Donny grip was spot from the Mere universe. And he did and he was scrowing this goatee in and I said a little changing the look is, oh yeah, just something different. I'm trying. You know. This kept it oblivious to me as to what was going on. And then on the on the day, unfortunately there was a Splinter second unit, so those guys were pushed off. They always did the second unit of Splinter stuff, so they weren't really on set, which was the plan was sort of be the robbery A and B camera, the good guys and the bad guys and throwing appropriate insults back and forth to each other just for fun. But this since that didn't work, we were shooting in the institute office environment. I don't know if it was actually Alex's office or something else, because we tend to redress it for different areas of Ala hunting Um. And they came over in the march, and there's video of them coming to our stage from their stage and they're playing the classic you know, Star Trek theme from the fight sequence and and uh, that's in the background as the four of them sort of make their way into the set. And then when they came in, it was just Mayhem and and Glenn spiding off lines from the movie. And I said, how did you know that was curigating the lines? I just said, and it's you know, very shakesperience moment, just you know, like like Carl Moltabon would have done. It was just shocking, and I was we were just selling shock and see like it was going bananas. He says, everybody, get out of here. We're behind you know, just like so much. We got to work. Yeah, and it was Kad and Matt were on that set at that moment there and then uh oh and the boom operator he just came into Halloween two. He came into the news the updated Star Trek spot with a different tunic and he was the boom guy. Beats like six foot two and they had the ears on and really convincing a look for it. And then I think at one point we all got together got a big shot with Cat and Matt there as well. Perfect it was. That was a very memorable moment. And I have video from different angles and you know, from pictures of us sitting there with with on the dolly and dollars and arrow tunics and you know, NCC went seven went on the side of the Dolly to make it look like as the Enterprise and we was kind of playing ump with it for the day like that. So that was sort of a highlight that I really do embalace. It was a very I mean we've touched on this already, but it was a very light set in general. It was a very it was a very playful set. Even was it Mike McMurray who had fun shirt Fridays yep, Friday Fridays. Yeah, and they were, and they that was sort of became a thing and would we even we would We were excited to see people showing up because it has this levity to it that makes everything you know, it's not all nobody's dying here, like we're making a TV show. We should be enjoying ourselves, who we should be having fun. Yes, I was always amazed at how the two of you you could be laughing and joking and women and the slap was in and they're crying and weeping, and just like, how do you do that? I just turn that on like that? And then the crippling debt from the years of being an actor. I just think about that and immediately, you know, some some light trauma and just yeah, use it, just some light trauma. No, but it's a lot of it. And Dom and I talk about this so much on the show, but so much of the ability to do that comes from having a crew that creates that environment and allows for that. And once again, it's credit to you and Glenn and your crews for being able to set things up and be there and be there to catch the moment without taking us out of the moment. And that's such a skill that I don't think a lot of people realize is so important to shows like this that have such emotional ups and downs, and a lot of it too was Mike is a well humored gentleman, you know, and he likes to have fun. And it kind of starts there. If you're if you're, if you're talking to photography is a little more formal and a little bit more precise and a little more you know, or traditional, then you may have not had much fun, but you know it came from you guys too, because when you're together, it is just you're you're in social mode pretty much. And then and then and then it becomes as soon as it's signed to rehearse, were now around the work mode, and he's got used to hitting that switch that sometimes a daily would come in and then clowning around and be pretty just like a second, the role in the camera slates and he's not quite there yet, you know, Okay, Okay, I'm good enough. Yeah, because it Yeah, you're right, that's such an interesting thing that we I have to separate that from my real life every now and then, Like I was just at my body Grant's wedding over New Years and he's an ad um or used to be an ad now lives in the Dominican Republic. And he used to do this thing you used to drive me mental. And he would do something when we were out drinking together. He would do this thing where he would go, oh yeah, and just for a second, my brain goes well as someone called for us, what's going on? And then I go, I'm at a pub, like I know that this isn't what's happening right now. But he would just pretend to talk into a radio and I'd be like, nobody's talking, nobody's talking right now. But it does. It sort of becomes this like semi semi instinctual part of your existence where you're like, oh, something's happening. You hear a crop of ball go off, and you go, am I supposed to be there, like if you snap into work mode. Yeah. I was even doing it over the holidays. I was home and my you know, my grandma was like, hey, can you mix up the mashed potatoes? And I went yet copy that I went wrong. You know, I don't just okay, she I don't know she did. She didn't take a fense thay goodness, but well, I mean fifty five episodes and you know, two seasons with you, so it was what forty forty forty two episodes or something and two seasons. You know, when it all came to an end, we had the opportunity to do the movie the last two episodes where we had a bit more freedom because there was no there was no network notes, there was no you know, we kind of had free rain. So was that what was that like for you? Did you feel as you had a bit more freedom when we were doing that and you could try some things or well, you know, and it was Todd directing, so it was someone new to understand what he was looking for. But I guess I guess it took us four weeks to shoot that or close to it and three and a half weeks or something. But Todd certainly he knew the style of the show. You know, he was when the producers that were in the cutting room and and and at one point as I got into day, well it doesn't really matter because we were not going to be on that shot that long because the cutting pattern, he goes, oh, that's that's my fault. I set that up. It was you. And then I'm finding and decided, yeah, it's the cutting pattern was driven by Todd and and it was like, you know, there's there's some nice shots in there. You could have hung on that for maybe a moment or too longer, you know, that's all. You know, every you would see every single shot that we did for a scene. It just wouldn't be there that long. It's true, it was quick. Well, you know, part of that is the efficiency of the crew. We were able to get so many shots. They probably it would depend on the director. You're absolutely right. It would fully depend on wiving so nice like the pok what are they going to do? Fire us? Like the show's who gets We talk about this more honestly, you know what I mean. Yeah, they would entirely depend on the director, and very often, very often you guys again, you guys are in the first ad team. Like if the director came in and we were like, this is slowing us down. This is a real problem like that, you know, because for those out there who don't know, if you have to add an additional day to filming TV or a movie, it costs a fortune. It costs them a fortune to do. It costs so much money. You have to have all of the equipment, all of the crew, everyone comes in. If you're on location, god forbid, you have to get that location for another day. It costs an absolute fortune and an additional day might be one scene. All you need to get is one scene, but you have to get everyone in for that day. It is an absolute nightmare. So when you do have directors who come in who slow everything down. We do have looks sort of between the internal, internal sort of core group where you're like, we know what we're doing. It like, we're going to get this done because we've got to we've got to power through things, and the crew around you fix that problem, you know. I remember an instance we were in the alleyway and it was like the last moment, there's only like minutes left to do, you know, Dom's coverage. Unfortunately, as the room turned around, now and all we have are these white shots is what we're planning to do, and we're handheld at the time, and I think it's sort of the aftermath of the fight sequence, and it was, well, we don't got to the white shots. All we have, I know, on the other side, we have all these close ups and you want to match when you're cutting just for the power of the emotion. So I just walk over to don it goes. So you know, when this thing when they say cut, just keep going because I'm going to run in and just get closer to you to get your close up. And that's what we did, and let's end. It's in the movie. It's yeah, yeah, it is. We need we need heroes like that on set, no kidding, like that's because without that, not even just like it takes so much of the impact out of the scene, but it kind of takes the scene away from the rest of the show as well, So it takes it actually steals a huge amount seemingly a fairly small mistake. But yeah, it's people like you who fix things like that. And so we talked. We talked about this with Glenn and then with John yesterday. So much of what being on set is is quick problem solving, being able to see an issue and go, we can fix this quickly. I actually think that's so much of what it is. It's like, Okay, here's the objective. How do we get there quickly and efficiently with everything with every thousand notes ticked as well? Yeah, yeah, and then when we're not the young for a tick two yeah, got it. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, But that's you know, that's the beauty of working together for so long is being able to dance with that and adjust to those things and roll with those punches and know that whatever we do get it'll work somehow. Um. But that's you know. Those are some of my favorite memories of of doing those final two episodes is having that family so solidified. And it was such a bittersweet moment. It was it wasn't it was closure to because at the end of the third season we all thought we were coming back. Yeah, and and and then then when I heard it was not coming back, it was like I didn't get to say goodbye to anybody. It was just like, so long, We'll see you soon. That was sort of the idea of it. And because we storylines were ready for season four, We're rules. Matt and I were off spending off season three money. We were traveling around Europe. We got a phone call like, oh shit, maybe we should cut a couple of dates off this tool. They're going to be unemployed soon. M It's so true. But that's so it was nice to come back and have that closure. And I guess the scene that really resonates was when I did not photograph. I was sort of by the monitors watching, and it was a steadicamp scene and the two of you were doing your last dance and that whole dialogue and how that played and and and for the fans, there's there's no real music on set when you're doing that. There's like this what they call it a beat track, but the beat track is like a really low frequency fun fun don't that you're dancing too, that you can you can record because the microphone just doesn't actually pick up that frequency, so you're not damaging the soundtrack. Usually it's back in the day, it was you play the music for a few bars and then you drop the music microphones on and everybody keeps moving to the same vibe. Well, now we can keep beat going. I didn't know that it's interesting the mic just pick it up. I know. I was always impressed with that. So you got this low kind of thing that I can hear, and the camera's slowly revolving around you as a city cameras working its way around for the story, and just watching that whole scene unravel it was. It was rather emotional just being at the monitors watching it, and I remember because I wasn't really working, I was just you know, enjoying the scene. Walk that sound interesting thing as well, you got you got to see so much of what got filmed for us. What what is quite interesting as a fan watching it back is there are scenes that we were in, We read them, we know vaguely what happens in them, but getting to see, like Harry and Matt's take on how this like this love connection is happening when we weren't there, especially getting to see Harry had such freedom to play with this physicality, getting to see what Harry did on the day, because you know Harry would walk in and go, oh, this is an interesting prop. Can I have this at the beginning? Or can I do this at the beginning? It's always something new, So that was a really interesting thing for us. But I agree with you that the ending one it is this bitter sweet thing to film because when you when you know you're approaching the end, everything is the last one of something. Everything is that everyone is the last time we're seeing something or seeing a person, or going into a room or seeing a set or you know, whatever it is. But we also sort of had the kind of the bonus of our rap party was directly after filming that so slowly sort of people were closing things down, closing departments down, getting things done whatever, and then trays of champagne were making their way out whilst Kat and I were dancing like it's a fucking save us some because it we'll be there very soon. Yeah, I'm crying right now, I'm gone. It was. It was a very sweet, like I remember the I remember Silk standing everyone up at the end and that being the and ladies and gentlemen that's it for shadow Hunters, and it being just the most like brutal, but we were all arm in arms. I think Emerald has a really good video of it. We were all arm and arts of it. Yeah, two hundred of us, like all together, like fuck, look at what we achieved. Man. Four years of everyone trying to achieve one goal all together, four years of no real arguments, nobody really fell out with each other. We just had this time that we'll always live in infamy for us because we managed to put it on film, which is really special. It is it's it's the family I have, well, the big family that I never have because it's just me and my sister. Right, So there's large people and you sit down to lunch. It's a room full of people are sitting down to lunch, you know, yeah, and then we're all getting up and done doing our thing and you know, everybody checked. If you had an ego that was checked at the door, it wasn't about to set. And that was fun. Well, that was the environment we had. It was very mentioned, open door, round table, collaborative environment where whether it was you know, just checking in about a scene or trying to figure out creatively how to make something work, or checking in on someone on a personal level and going, hey, how are you, how's your life? Are you good? Are you you know? Are you well? Basically which you rarely rarely get. And then something I think on set has kind of been at least the lunch room, for example, has kind of been lost since COVID really because there's so many protocols now and so many things that everyone has kept so separated. I haven't had that since Shadow Hunters, and I miss that so much, just being able to sit with everyone and chat and check in and have birthdays and you know, whatever event is going on, and it's you know, I don't know there's such a there's such a camaraderie about it that will always live in infamy, at least in my in my heart with Shadow Hunters. Yeah, no, it's like it's like the football scene in the Top Gun where everybody is, you know, bonding that our launches when we do that, right, Yeah, for sure, exactly right. Yeah. Well, on that note, Drew, is there anything else you would love to to add or say or you know, the we know the Shadow family loves you just as we do. We've it's been really, really incredible to have you here today. Well, thank you very much. I know I could go on and on for hours with other things, and I still want to board everybody, but it was certainly a lot of fun seeing you guys. I can't believe it's worse so quickly, I know, because there's sort of an invitation before starting. But and you know, and my driver was late to pick me up. That's way to push everything. Yeah, my chopper was late as well. We had some weather here. It was a whole nightmare. Oh well, I walked. I don't know, no, But thank you so much, Drew. It's it was incredible to spend so many years is working so closely with you and to be able to kind of relive that for at least a little bit. It's been a pleasure. It has been a true pleasure, and the best of fortune to all of you. Absolutely all right, take care, monsieur bye. Return to the Shadows as hosted an executive produced by me Dominic, Sherwood and Katherine McNamara. Our executive producer is Langley. Our senior producers are Liz Hayes and Diego Tapia. Our producer is Hannah Harris and Kristin Vermilia, and our intern is Sam Kat's. Original music by Alex Kinsey performed by Alex Kinsey and Katherine McNamara, and the episode was mixed by Seth A landscape