#350: Nature's Longevity CODE Revealed: Exosomes, Plasma HACKS & the Real Science of Aging | With Dr. Ian White

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Welcome to Longevity. I'm your host, Natalie Nidom. I'm a nutritionist, a human potential
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and epigenetic coach, and I created this podcast to bring you the latest ways to take control
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of your health and longevity. We cover it all from new technology and ancestral health
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practices, to personalize interventions, and a very special interest of mine, peptides
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and bioregulators. Enjoy the show. Welcome back to the show, folks. We have a fantastic
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show for you today. Once again, this is going to be one of those ones where you're going
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to want to grab a pen in a paper. If you or anyone you know is in need of any kind of
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regenerative work, this is the man you want to get some information from. His name is
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Dr. Ian White. He's a leading researcher in this field, and he has some jaw dropping
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bombs to share with us. So truth bombs and information bombs that is before we jump in.
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Of course, I want to thank you guys, and I'd love to direct your attention to natnidom.com.
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That's my website. That's where you will find information about the membership community.
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That is also where you will be able to sign up for my newsletter. Also, if you're looking
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to follow me on social media, that's Natalie Nidom on Instagram. Thank you so much for
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being here. Thank you for being a listener of this podcast. Thanks to you guys. We have
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grown in leaps and bounds over the last year, and are able to spread this incredible information
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with bigger and bigger numbers of people. So let's thank a couple of our sponsors who
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make this show possible, and let's jump into the episode. Don't you love those days
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in the zone and stay there. What do you get when you combine a regenerative medicine
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THD, an entrepreneurial leap of faith, and a fascination with lobsters that apparently
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never age. You get Dr. Ian White, our guest today, and the founder of Neobiosis. We cover
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everything from expanding stem cells for cancer recovery to why pregnancy might just be nature's
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most powerful anti-aging hack. Oh, and if you've been hearing buzz about exosomes or plasma
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exchanges, Ian's here to clear up the science and the sales hype. Buckle up. This one goes
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Dr. Ian White, welcome to the show. It is a pleasure to finally make this happen.
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Yeah, it's been a while. We've been talking about this for a few years now, so excited
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to finally be on here with you. Yeah, I think it's been two years since we first met
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at A4M.
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No, I think we first met in Palm Beach at a master class with Ross Carter, hit organized
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get out. We met there. Yep, that was what's. Oh, it hasn't been a while. All right, folks,
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well, listen, you know what, the best things that are worth waiting for. And this is, this
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was definitely worth waiting for. And we're going to talk about a topic today that is so
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hot and, you know, regenerative medicine space is, it's exploding, right? And this is
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the space you're in. But before we launch into the meat, let's talk a little bit about
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you and talk about, you know, your, your real, your background originally is academia research
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and academia. And at some point, you woke up one morning and decided, yeah, this is all
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great, but I'm going to be an entrepreneur now. We were just talking about how you didn't
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realize it at the time, but it's really jumping out of the fire into the frying pan as it
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were. But what made you make that switch? Like, what was your life like in academics and
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what made you kind of think you wanted to move over? Well, life in academia was pretty
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tough. You know, I had a family two kids living in Miami towards the end of my sort of academic
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life. You don't get paid a lot as a postdoc and cost of living is very high. So, you know,
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it's very challenging. And what ends up happening is you spend most of your time writing grants
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trying to get your research funded. And what I was finding was that my research was considered
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sort of too fringe. You know, it was sort of too out there to get to get funded, which
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is a shame because, you know, a lot of my research has translated, you know, since then, and
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we've done, you know, very well with a lot of the research. But at the time, it was just
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impossible to get funded. So I sort of looked for alternate sources of funding. I couldn't
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really find anything. So I thought, you know, maybe I'll just raise bunny rabbits. I
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don't know. I didn't know what really what to do for a while. But, you know, I was at A4M,
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and I saw several companies that were selling regenerative products at that time. They were
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calling them stem cells. And I wondered, you know, what is it that, how are they translating
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this already? Because I've been working with these kinds of tissues for years. And I know the
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regenerative potential for them. But I didn't know that you could actually translate it already.
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And so I started looking into that. I started testing the products that were on the market.
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And I realized that these are the exact same sorts of things that we've been working with,
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but made it a much poorer quality. So I thought, well, maybe I should do this. Maybe, you know,
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I have the expertise. I have a PhD in regenerative medicine. I've been studying these tissues for
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a long time. I see they have a retail potential. And they seem to be doing good in the market.
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What if we could make them better? And what if we could have transparency and then work with
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the regulators to see if we could make this more mainstream? And that was it. That's how I
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dedicated my time after that. And I, ever since I've been working with regulators, I've been working
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with our company and other companies to bring transparency, to bring understanding to this field,
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so that we can allow the general public to have access to these amazing resources.
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But in your time in academia, like you developed a method to expand atologous,
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hematopoetic stem cells. And so let's start there. I mean, atologous meaning they come from your own
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body, hematopoetic stem cells, expanding those cultures. And I remember a number of years ago,
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there was a big fight about expanding these stem cell cultures and how it was actually not allowed.
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And I don't know if it still isn't in the US that basically the FDA was saying as soon as these
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stem cells are removed from the body, if they're manipulated in any way, they're off. And so then
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people would go to Panama or Mexico and still do, they go overseas, they travel for these treatments.
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So maybe tell us a little bit about this whole hematopoetic stem cells. And what you had said to me
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before we started recording, which was if you're using stem cells, then you have to do this in
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order for them to be of any use. So off you go. So most of what you were referring to there were
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allogeneic cells. So cells from another person often isolated from the bone marrow and then culture
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expanded. So they put in a petri dish and a plastic dish with growth factors and their numbers
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are allowed to expand. And then they harvest those. And typically the cells that are used for that
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are MSCs. Now MSCs used to be called masoncomal stem cells, but we knew for a very long time that
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was an inaccurate term because they are not stem cells. So Arnold Kaplan before he passed away
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actually changed the name to masoncomal signaling cells or some called them stromal cells
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because to identify their main function, which is to signal and not to act as a stem cell. So
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those cells which are culture expanded abroad are typically MSCs. But the problem there is that MSCs
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are very plastic, meaning that they are able to change their phenotype in a very negative way.
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Now what I mean by that is when you culture expand them and they're dividing, they're receiving
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signals from their environment and they are perhaps dying or they are changing their protein
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profile, they're changing their phenotype, the type of cell they are. And if you don't test for
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them, if you don't test to make sure the cell is the same after it's been culture expanded,
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then it was when you first started, then you could have something very different from what you
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were you started that you're giving to patients. And that's the problem typically abroad is they
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don't do those tests. And that's why the FDA doesn't like it. Typically I worked with MSCs for
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many years, culture expanding them in the lab. And what often happens if you're not careful is
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they will die and get replaced by fibroblasts, which can look very similar under a microscope.
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So if you don't do very specific genetic tests or surface market testing, you actually don't know
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what you've ended up with. So the FDA was really against using culture expanded MSCs. But what I was
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doing from my PhD was autologous hematopoietic stem cells. And the key there is that they are
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notoriously hard to expand. But these are the cells that make your immune system. These are the
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cells that respond to injury. So these are the cells that you really want to be expanding and
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mobilizing. But the problem is when you take them out of the body and you try to grow them,
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they don't grow. They need what's called a feeder layer. And that's a layer of cells underneath
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them that they sit on just like in the body. So with the MSCs they sit on plastic, which is artificial
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and it's not the same signals that they receive in the body. These hematopoietic stem cells
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absolutely require a feeder layer. So they sit on a layer, I'm on a layer of endothelial cells.
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And endothelial cells are what make up your blood vessels. So they sit on these blood vessels
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inside the body. And when you culture expand them they require the signals from the endothelial
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cells. The problem is endothelial cells can't survive without serum. So if you have serum in
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our blood and when we culture expand cells we typically have to add exogenous serum to keep the
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cells alive. But that serum differentiates the hematopoietic stem cells. So they're no longer
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stem cells. They start maturing and they lose that stem cell potential and they become
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terminally differentiated cells. So mature cells that no longer have the stem cell phenotype.
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So the key for my research was how do we keep those endothelial cells alive in the absence of
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serum so that we can allow the hematopoietic stem cells to expand. And we were able to do that.
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So my previous boss, my previous PI, Shaheen Raffi figured out that there was a particular
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part of a virus that we could use to put in the endothelial cells called E4-Orth-1 that would
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keep them alive. And then I discovered the mechanism by which we could then expand the hematopoietic
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stem cells. So seeing that for the first time was probably the most remarkable thing that I've
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ever seen because hematopoietic stem cells are beautiful in culture. They form this like
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cobblestone appearance and we would put GFP in them so we could differentiate them from the
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other cells in the culture. And it was just absolutely the most beautiful thing when we looked
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down at microscope for the first time and we saw massive expansion and non-differentiation
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of hematopoietic stem cells. We saw so much potential for cancer patients but also the rest of the
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world. Wow, that just kind of gave me chills. I can only imagine the scene in the lab that day.
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You must have been. Wasn't a day. It was in the middle of the night probably around 3am.
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Kind of like winning the lottery only better. I remember my boss calling my wife and saying,
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I'm sorry, I have to keep him later. And we were there. The two of us just like kids just
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excited beyond belief that we had seen this. What's been the outcome of that discovery? Because
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that is a major discovery. And as you're saying, these are the cells that will differentiate
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those cells that will support immune proper immune function. Cornel commercialized the product and
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there was a company spanned out with angiochrine which I believe now is the second largest company in
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the hematopoietic cell expansion space. But the idea was that about I think it's one in 500,
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something like that. One in 500 cancer patients end up dying due to the chemo-oblative or
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radio-oblative therapy because you destroy the immune system. When you remove that therapy,
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it not only targets the cancer, but it also destroys your bone marrow. And without your bone marrow,
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you can't make a new immune system which is where the immune system comes from. That's where the
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hematopoietic stem cells live. And so a lot of patients about one in 500 I think end up dying from
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infection because they don't have an immune system. And so what we were excited about and I haven't
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been following their progress, the idea would be you take some hematopoietic stem cells from
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their bone marrow before they have the radio or chemical ablation, you culture expand them,
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they have the therapy. And now you've got this massive population of hematopoietic stem cells
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that you can now transplant back to the patient so their immune system comes back faster.
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Wow. And so you don't know if there is this available?
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Yeah, I've not followed the work. I've been so focused on what we've been doing since then,
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I haven't been following that work. All right, well, we're going to get to that too. But the
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company is Angiocrine is what you're saying, right? Okay, so we'll have to look them up and see
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what they're up to because that's, I mean, that sounds just so incredibly elegant as a solution.
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I mean, it's this whole idea of tapping back into the body's own system to solve a problem.
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That's how all that's how all my breakthroughs and all our most scientific breakthroughs
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happen is you look at nature, you see what nature has done, and then you see what you can learn
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from it. You know, this this particular protein that we're using from the virus, the virus uses
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for its own benefit. And we've just sort of stolen it from the virus and said, hey, that's a good
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idea. Let's do that. So we use that protein, that gene from the virus. We put it into the cell,
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the cell up regulates AKT1, which is able to allow it to metabolize in the absence of serum,
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which is critical for its survival. And hey, Presto, what the virus has tried to do to keep the
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cell alive while it's killing it while it's while it's infecting it has been hijacked by us,
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the scientists to do good. Nice. I like that. Turn the bad guys into good guys. All right,
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now let's let's talk about another one of your projects, the hetero chronic parabiosis,
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which is, I said it, I got it. And parabiosis, I think a lot of people have now heard of parabiosis
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because of what's his name, Brian Johnson, doing a plasma, I think it's a plasma transfer
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between him and his son. But this is a whole other area of regenerative medicine. And maybe
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can we talk about this a little bit? Is it really all that? Is it what's your take on it? And
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you've clearly done some work here. Yeah, well, so I've been studying regenerative processes
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for over 20 years. I started really as a paracetologist. I was interested in how parasites interact
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with the immune system and the Liverpool School of Tropical Medicine in the UK. And what we sort
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of found back then, which we didn't really understand what we were looking at, was that certain
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parasites use exosomes to modulate the host immune system so that they can gain entry and survive.
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Now, we didn't know what it was back then, but we know now that it's that they were using exosomes.
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And that started my whole journey on trying to understand signaling and signaling modalities
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in the forms of exosomes and other modalities. So, after studying that for many years and going
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down the route of cardiac regeneration and have the hematopoietic stem cell niche is maintained,
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I got very interested in the aging process because I realized that most of our diseases are
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associated with aging. And if we can understand the aging process, then perhaps we can understand
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disease. And one of those directions led me to heterochronic parabiosis. It was an experiment
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published several years ago from Harvard University where they took a young mouse and an old mouse,
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and they sutured them together so they shared a blood supply. And based on my previous research at
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Harvard and at Cornell, I understood the power of young signals. And if you can take harness those
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young signals, I ended up actually winning an award from the American Heart Association for my work
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on cardiac regeneration, looking at young signals and that influence on older tissue. But all
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this sort of came together in my mind, looking at the convoys research on heterochronic parabiosis,
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taking a young individual and an old individual, and somehow that old individual seemed to get younger.
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So markers of aging came down, their immune system came back, their hair color came back,
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grip strength came back, cognitive ability was improved. All of these things that you want to see in
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a younger individual started happening in these older individuals. And so that sent me down this
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whole rabbit hole of trying to understand what those young signals are. And then that opened up my
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my current career as a as a scientist studying longevity and aging. So when they sutured the mice
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together, just again, just as a did the old mouse get younger and the young mouse get older,
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like do the signaling molecules from the old mice affected? Yeah. That's what's interesting.
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So we do seem to accumulate sort of aging molecules. And what's fascinating is that it seems that
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just simply donating blood is a very cheap and inexpensive way to improve your your health
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span and your life span. So just going and donating your blood to the big red truck that goes
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around is something you can do today to improve your quality of life. So yes, the younger mouse got
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older and the older mouse got younger. And it's because these young signals in the young
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mouse were passed to the old mouse, but this old stuff that's hanging around in the older mouse
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is accumulating now in the younger mouse and accelerating their aging. And so when you're
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donating blood, so you're not bringing in any youth signals, but you're you're reducing your
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load of old of aging signals. Yeah. So typically what these guys do when they have a plasma
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exchange is that they'll reduce their blood volume by a certain amount and then replace it with
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the same amount, but younger blood or plasma. Okay, but wouldn't you reject somebody else's
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plasma? Like say, it's not like it because blood is a tissue. Yeah. So yeah, that's why he's
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using his sons because they're matched. So when you donate blood, they look for your HLA type
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and you know, if you're an O or A or B, you know, all of these markers they look for so that when
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the blood is donated and it's utilized in the hospital, they can call for the the the matching
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blood type. So it's the same idea. You can't just take anybody's blood unless it comes from a
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cord. So an umbilical cord actually has this hematoportic stem cell population that can recapitulate
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a bone marrow after ablation. And so that's used routinely in medicine where you would take a
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cord from a completely unrelated individual. You won't have the HLA match, but you can use it and
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you don't need to worry about rejection for the most part. And repopulate a person's bone marrow?
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Interesting. So is this available? Parabiosis from a younger is this a commercially available
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process? But you know, I don't consider Brian Johnson. He's doing what he's doing,
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accessing things that other people can access. Is this something that somebody could do today?
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Yeah. So several years ago, there were some early adopting companies out there that the FDA
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sort of tried to reel in. There's some articles out there about it. But more recently, there are
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some companies that I've done a lot of research and I would say probably are more advanced than
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the the initial companies that were out there. But yes, you can find opportunities to do plasma
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exchange. I'm not sure about in the United States, but certainly abroad. Wow. Have you or anybody
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else identified what those aging markers are? Like those signaling molecules that are flipping
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the phenotype from old to new to young? Do we know what those are? Is it still kind of a bit of a
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soup? That's a multi billion dollar, if not trillion dollar question. That's what we're all working on.
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That's so, you know, all of everybody that's working in longevity research,
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neuroscience, that's what we're trying to find is what's the switch? What makes you young and me old?
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You know, what's the what is that thing? And you know, I'm writing a book right now. I've been writing
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it for a couple of years now. Unfortunately, just been so busy with everything else. I haven't
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quite got to finish it, but I believe I understand the answer or at least where to look. And that's
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sort of where my research is going now. We don't know the answer. I know the answer exists. I know
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because we see it in nature. We see it all the time happening in nature. I'm happy to talk about
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that as well, but I believe that it's something that that is findable. Where do we see it in nature?
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We see it in other species like lobsters that don't seem to have any markers of aging.
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So lobsters will just continue to grow and get bigger and bigger, but you wouldn't know by looking
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at its biology, whether it was a one-year-old or a 30-year-old lobster. So they never die?
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They only die through disease, predation, or they get so large, the energy required to
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malt is in excess of the energy they have available, and so they die under their own weight.
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So that's really how lobsters die. They don't die of aging. Same thing with a buffalo carp.
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A 30-year-old buffalo carp will be just as precunded as a young carp. It can sire or mother
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babies just as easily as a one-year-old, and they don't show any markers of aging either.
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Territopsis donoy eyes, we call the immortal jellyfish, they can live up to 5,000 years without
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appearing to age. They actually de-differentiate their cells. They become babies again,
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and then become adults. So there are those examples to nature, but in the human body we see
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examples all the time. So not only did Xinjiang Yamanaka win the Nobel Prize in 2012 for these
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IPS cells that he developed, these Yamanaka factors that are able to de-differentiate mature
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keratinocytes, mature skin cells, back to an embryonic-like state. That shows the mechanism
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is possible, but we see it every single day in childbirth. So we can take a 40-year-old male and
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a 40-year-old female who have 40-year-old cells, she has 40-year-old eggs, he has 40-year-old sperm
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stem cells which generate new spermatives regularly, but still it's coming from old cells.
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When it comes together to make a baby, it makes a zero-year-old baby. So all of those markers,
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all of that aging that's happening in our body that accumulates in us to push us towards death
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is erased when you start again with a new baby. So the mechanism exists, we just got to understand
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how to find it. Holy jumping, that's crazy, never thought of it that way, that's wild.
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Okay, so my head's exploding right now. It is amazing, right? I mean it's like you already know
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so much and you're so close, but it's like the last five pounds, that last inch to the finish
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flies. It's the same as breast milk. We know a lot about breast milk, but formula is not like
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breast milk. There's just a little june sè quoi, that's certain something in breast milk that
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we just don't understand because we don't know what to measure. If we don't know what's in it,
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we don't know what to measure. And it's kind of like that with these products that we're studying,
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and the issue is that it's great that labs like Alta's labs are raising $5 billion to do research,
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but labs like ours are struggling to raise capital, even though we have deployed
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countermeasures already into the marketplace that are changing and saving lives, raising capital
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for us is really, really hard. Why? I don't really know. I think it's that people like to bet on
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horses they think are going to win, and when you've got momentum like Alta's labs, you want to put
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your money into something like that. I don't really know. It's a really difficult play,
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but I've got theories that don't necessarily align with what everybody's doing at Alta's,
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but when you're fighting a war, you need to fight on multiple fronts, but
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seems that my ideas that I've been developing over the past few years are gaining traction,
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because I hear a lot of other people now talking about my theory. My theory isn't my theory.
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My theory has evolved over the years. I'd love to talk about that a little bit in a minute
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as well as possible, but this idea that entropy is driving aging is something that I came up with
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a few years ago. Unbeknownst to me, that was a theory that had existed way back in the 40s with
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Irwin Schrodinger when he wrote what is life, but I sort of re-envisioned it, and I've been talking
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about this for a few years now, and there seems to be a lot of other people talking about the
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physics of aging, as opposed to the biology of aging, and I believe that's where the answer is
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going to lie. In the physics. So what's entropy? Why don't you tell it? What is that? Yeah, so
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entropy is sort of how we tell time. Entropy is the universe can only move in one direction,
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and that's to go from a state of order to disorder, and that's just a basic law of physics. And so
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the second law of thermodynamics says that in an enclosed space, entropy can only increase. So
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things can only happen. They can't unhapen. So if you develop, if you evolve into a galaxy,
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that galaxy can't de-evolve back into basic matter or anything. Isn't that what a black hole is,
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though? Yeah, so a black hole is maximum entropy. So it's gone to a point where you can't go any
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further, and what's called the heat death of the universe will occur when all the work,
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the chemical work in the universe has been done, and everything is now in one black hole.
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So that's sort of where we're heading. That's the direction we're heading. So entropy in the body
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is the accumulation of disorder, essentially. It's a very complex idea, but simply put,
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when we are born, for example, we don't have much methylation to talk of on our DNA, and the
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methylation sort of turns on and turns off genes and everything. But at the age, epigenetics changes,
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and there are markers out there. There are whole companies based around looking at those markers
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to gauge how old you are. They're doing epigenetic eight more clocks. And so that accumulation is
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a demonstration of entropy. Now there are other demonstrations of entropy in the body too,
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but that demonstration of entropy means that this is something that's happened that can't be
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undone. It's the cell is aging, and either the cell has to die, or it becomes senescent,
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and we start this whole sort of aging process. So when we talk about reversing aging, or reversing
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biological aging, what we're really trying to do is get rid of those senescent cells, you know,
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trigger a topogy, my topogy, all the offogies to kind of get rid of the damaged stuff,
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and generate new cells, new mitochondria, new material that hasn't sustained that damage. We're not
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actually demethylating DNA. Well, we don't know. We don't know what the answer is, but we know that
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whatever you just described is the thing that happens to babies. When you have a blastocyst form
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from the meeting of two gametes, those cells do something to reset themselves, because they've
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come from older cells. So it's not just stripping senescent cells, it's also stripping the entropy
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that's in the cells themselves, because you can't just remove every cell in your body and start
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over, and you can theoretically remove all of the senescent cells. But what about all the cells that
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are non-senescent, but are highly methylated, or have epigenetic changes that mean that they're
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not signaling efficiently enough, that as we get all our immune system becomes compromised,
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it just doesn't work as well. But if we give young signals, we're able to reinvigorate that
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immune system, which suggests we can somehow reset it, not by just removing senescent cells,
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but something fundamental in our immune system, in our immune stem cells, perhaps in our hematopoietic
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stem cells, that can reset or at least be cleared off in some fashion. Yeah, that's fascinating.
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I mean, you still want to get rid of some of the senescent, I mean, you want to take care of the
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damage really. You want to clean house, but the difference between what everybody's doing right
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now, as far as biohacking and longevity and health span interventions, is basically improving the
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quality of life. We probably can get up to about 120 years out of our lifespan, but that's a hard
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ceiling, it seems, for our biology. What I'm trying to do is understand why that is. So I'm not
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trying to improve the quality necessarily during that period. I'm trying to understand
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how do we get to 150 and 200 years, because if we can understand that and get there, that means
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that we've fundamentally understood this aging process, and perhaps we can still live to 100,
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but we live to 100 as a 30-year-old. Yeah, that would be awesome. For me, it's like, don't take
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me to 200 until you can tell me you can take me to 200 and I still feel good. Exactly, you
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don't point me to 200, but being crippled. No, even 100. That's the fundamental difference with
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our research, is that we're not just trying to push out the lifespan. We see a lot of research
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coming out right now, especially in mice, which doesn't typically translate to humans anyway,
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but it's just like, let's see how much longevity we can get, see how we can push the lifespan out,
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but these mice have really rickety by the end. They look terrible from the most part. So that's not
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interesting to us. What's interesting to me is to say, what did I do differently as a teenager
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that I'm not doing as a 50-year-old, and how do I tap back into that? Because the genes are
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the same. They're all still in my body, but they're being expressed. The body knows how to heal.
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It's done its whole life, and it also knows how to reset, because when I have children,
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they were born at zero years old. Their cells were zero years old. So I want to understand that,
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so I can say I can turn it on. I can turn it off. I can turn it up. I can turn it down. So if I,
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if you say, 30s were my best, you know, I felt my healthiest in my 30s, we turn it up to 30,
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and you stay at 30. That's my goal. How practical that is we don't know, but all of the indicators
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in biology suggest that it's possible. And like I said before, I take all of my research
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inspiration from nature. If it exists in nature, it means it's physically possible in our universe.
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We're not breaking physical laws. It exists. We just need to understand it and how to apply it
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to humans. I'm still struggling with the whole lobster doesn't age problem. You've already
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blown my mind. I mean, you've kind of blown my mind in a few places here, but that's fascinating.
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Okay. So, wow, that's, I didn't even think we were going to be here. I mean, here we are.
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Now I'm trying to figure out how are we going to get back to exosomes and growth factors?
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So, from a practical perspective right now, so there are companies or organizations that are
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offering this plasma exchange to people like what Brian Johnson is doing, and there's legitimacy
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there clearly. And within that, there was another procedure that a bunch of the big names did.
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I think it was in Mexico where they had some kind of something, they had some, I can't remember
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the name of it, but their blood was filtered. And that was a mechanism. It sounds like
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of removing some of these aging factors from the blood. And just from reducing that load,
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they would experience benefits. Do you know what I'm talking about?
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Yeah, yeah. I kind of filtering system is very expensive. I think developed in
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Germany, if I remember correctly. And there are some facilities closer to home. There's a
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facility in the Bahamas that offers that service. It's very expensive, but the results do seem
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very promising. So, for the time being, until we figure out what that switch is that I was talking
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about, the best we can do are some of these modalities that are synergistic with one another.
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So, remembering blood from your body or filtering your blood, taking in young signals.
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You mentioned Brian Johnson using the plasma exchange. He's getting it from a younger individual,
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but there are younger individuals you can get it from. And so, in our research, what we realized
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was that pregnancy is a natural form of heterochronic parabiosis. You have a young individual, a baby,
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sharing blood and nutrients with an older individual, the mother, and the babies using these
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signals to grow, and the mothers using these signals to improve her health too. So, a mother is
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probably at a peak health during pregnancy due to the signals she's receiving from the baby,
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to deal with all these marigolds of pregnancy. The baby wants her to be healthy.
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00:36:39.880 --> 00:36:45.880
And the issues and her older signals, like her aging signals is what's triggering the maturing
382
00:36:45.880 --> 00:36:51.320
of the baby. I don't know if I would necessarily take it that far, but certainly growth factors and
383
00:36:51.720 --> 00:36:55.400
immunoglobulin and things like that are being passed to the baby that are benefiting the baby,
384
00:36:55.400 --> 00:37:00.200
but the exosomes that the baby is producing enter the blood supply of the mother and change her
385
00:37:00.200 --> 00:37:05.960
physiology too. So, her heart increases in volume, her hair quality improves, her skin quality
386
00:37:05.960 --> 00:37:14.760
improves, pregnant women glow, and signals from the baby. So, these exosomes are what contained
387
00:37:14.760 --> 00:37:20.840
the majority of these young signals. They carry what's called cargo. And in that cargo are some of
388
00:37:20.840 --> 00:37:26.520
the instruction manuals and the growth factors and everything else that the body needs to heal
389
00:37:27.320 --> 00:37:32.680
itself. So, when we talk about a plasma exchange between a 50-year-old and a 30-year-old,
390
00:37:32.680 --> 00:37:37.720
you might see some benefits, but what if you took that young heterochronic parabiosis? The baby's
391
00:37:37.720 --> 00:37:43.400
now born, but you can harvest the amniotic fluid. It's typically medical waste. It's thrown away
392
00:37:43.400 --> 00:37:48.200
after a typical infection. The baby's healthy, the mother's healthy, but you've got this amniotic
393
00:37:48.200 --> 00:37:53.320
fluid left over. That's like heterochronic parabiosis. That's like a young plasma exchange. You can
394
00:37:53.400 --> 00:37:58.200
take that and use it medicinally, and that's been the basis of our research. We've found that by
395
00:37:58.200 --> 00:38:03.800
taking the heterochronic parabiosis of pregnancy in the form of purified amniotic fluid,
396
00:38:03.800 --> 00:38:10.280
that we can when we apply it to a disease state, we can remove or reverse the disease state,
397
00:38:10.280 --> 00:38:15.880
whether that's a diabetic also that's not responding to any conventional medicine, and the patient's
398
00:38:15.880 --> 00:38:21.000
going to have to have the limb removed. You apply this product, you tissue ages as if it's a baby
399
00:38:21.080 --> 00:38:26.040
and it regenerates. That's incredible. You know what I'm sitting here thinking, when you talk
400
00:38:26.040 --> 00:38:32.760
about amniotic fluid, how amazing would it be for right there at the delivery for the mother to
401
00:38:32.760 --> 00:38:37.960
get an infusion of that amniotic fluid back to herself to help her recover and heal from delivery
402
00:38:37.960 --> 00:38:45.480
and having this baby and dad get a little bit just for a little extra shot. That's an area that
403
00:38:45.560 --> 00:38:52.680
we're interested in pursuing and going into banking. That's a very interesting area, because if you
404
00:38:52.680 --> 00:38:57.560
think about it, a lot of women suffer from things like post-partum depression, other post-partum
405
00:38:57.560 --> 00:39:03.160
issues, and we think that a lot of that is due to this sort of cold turkey withdrawal of the
406
00:39:03.160 --> 00:39:08.840
amniotic fluid. She's been bathed in this stuff for months, and then suddenly she goes through this
407
00:39:08.840 --> 00:39:15.000
traumatic experience, and she no longer has this immunomodulatory goodies in her body,
408
00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:23.240
and the inflammation can cause depression in the brain. We've seen stroke patients recover
409
00:39:23.240 --> 00:39:27.880
after an IV infusion of these products, because it brings down the inflammation in their brain,
410
00:39:27.880 --> 00:39:32.280
you know, as long as they don't have brain damage. If it's just inflammation, you can bring it down,
411
00:39:32.280 --> 00:39:37.880
and so we're talking with the military, we're talking with the NFL about TBI concussions, because
412
00:39:37.880 --> 00:39:44.120
that's inflammation, and if you can bring down the inflammation, you can mitigate damage,
413
00:39:44.120 --> 00:39:48.760
but same thing with the pregnant mother. If she's withdrawing from the amniotic fluid,
414
00:39:48.760 --> 00:39:52.200
what about if we give it back a couple of weeks later to help her recover?
415
00:39:52.920 --> 00:39:58.440
Yeah, no, I think that, I mean, so many women like their thyroid goes south after pregnancy,
416
00:39:58.440 --> 00:40:03.560
right? It's epidemic, that's why thyroid issues, and it's subclinical. It's kind of like this
417
00:40:03.560 --> 00:40:09.960
weird under the radar stuff. Okay, wow, okay, so an amniotic fluid, does it need to be matched
418
00:40:09.960 --> 00:40:15.880
like plasma, or is it, it's even more naive, so it's less. Yeah, it's cellular, so the
419
00:40:15.880 --> 00:40:20.600
matching really comes down to the markers on the surface of the blood cells. So if you have
420
00:40:20.600 --> 00:40:27.400
no cells, those markers don't exist, it doesn't mean that the product is, you know, privileged,
421
00:40:27.400 --> 00:40:31.960
which means that it's not invisible to the immune system, but it doesn't elicit an immune response
422
00:40:31.960 --> 00:40:36.040
like you might if you just took a random adult's blood and injected into your body.
423
00:40:36.840 --> 00:40:44.840
Right, right. Okay, wow, okay, so amniotic fluid, a whole other source of rejuvenation as it
424
00:40:44.840 --> 00:40:49.880
works. It's where we're focusing our efforts. You know, I work for many years with MSCs and other
425
00:40:49.880 --> 00:40:55.240
modalities, but based on our research, we've discovered that this particular fraction that we work
426
00:40:55.240 --> 00:41:04.040
with, called VIX001, that particular fraction is incredibly potent, and we have an IND approved
427
00:41:04.120 --> 00:41:07.560
by the FDA right now for a clinical trial with it, so that's very exciting. We're just looking for
428
00:41:07.560 --> 00:41:14.200
partners to help us fund the clinical trial, although we've just been invited to a semi-finalist
429
00:41:14.200 --> 00:41:18.520
in the ex-price to join their team, which is very exciting, so we may be able to deploy
430
00:41:18.520 --> 00:41:22.280
it. Congratulations. It's part of the ex-price. Yeah, that's, that's a very exciting, but
431
00:41:23.800 --> 00:41:30.200
so VIX001, this particular fraction of amniotic fluid, we're able to deploy it across many
432
00:41:30.280 --> 00:41:36.280
different modalities, and you know, that's where we're at right now, is we're we're we're understanding,
433
00:41:36.280 --> 00:41:40.120
we're trying to understand what's in it, because again, just like breast milk, we know there
434
00:41:40.120 --> 00:41:45.080
are exosomes, we know there are over 300 bioactive growth factors, but one thing we've discovered
435
00:41:45.080 --> 00:41:51.000
recently, which is very exciting, and you might recognize this word, Clotho. Clotho, yeah,
436
00:41:51.000 --> 00:41:56.440
Clotho right now is a very exciting protein, and it's being studied extensively in longevity,
437
00:41:56.440 --> 00:42:02.840
because what scientists have discovered is that if you block this gene from working in a mouse,
438
00:42:02.840 --> 00:42:10.280
the mouse, the mice die very, very quickly, if you overexpress this gene in a mouse, they live
439
00:42:10.280 --> 00:42:15.080
a lot longer, but what's most exciting is it translates to humans as well, because most research
440
00:42:15.080 --> 00:42:20.280
doesn't in mice, doesn't translate to humans, but this seems to translate to humans, and so this
441
00:42:20.280 --> 00:42:25.880
Clotho protein that's calling the longevity protein, that it seems to have this, you know,
442
00:42:26.600 --> 00:42:34.040
life extension and life improving qualities is abundant in our fraction of purified amniotic fluid.
443
00:42:34.920 --> 00:42:39.160
So, Clotho as well as the exosomes and everything else, so we don't know how the product works,
444
00:42:39.160 --> 00:42:44.520
we just see these remarkable outcomes where we put it on burns, and they heal remarkably fast,
445
00:42:44.520 --> 00:42:49.800
we put it on diabetic ulcers, and instead of getting an amputation, it heals without scarring.
446
00:42:49.800 --> 00:42:54.600
We don't know how it's doing it, but when we look at the 400 billion exosomes,
447
00:42:54.600 --> 00:43:01.880
over 300 bioactive growth factors, and the Clotho, this longevity protein that's present together,
448
00:43:01.880 --> 00:43:07.480
this soup seems to have some kind of magical, I hate to use the word magical, but these really
449
00:43:07.480 --> 00:43:13.960
amazing properties. This is holy grail stuff, right? Like this is the stuff, this is fountain of
450
00:43:13.960 --> 00:43:20.440
youth. Yeah, yeah. Well, we've saved lives, and we've changed countless lives with these products,
451
00:43:21.480 --> 00:43:26.760
you know, mostly deployed abroad, up until recently, but you know, it's amazing.
452
00:43:26.760 --> 00:43:33.080
But in spinal injuries. We haven't actually looked at that yet. I know that there has been some
453
00:43:33.080 --> 00:43:38.920
work done previously with exosomes and spinal injuries. We haven't used our product in that capacity
454
00:43:39.080 --> 00:43:45.240
yet, but we are looking at things like Alzheimer's, we are looking at things like TBI, we are burns,
455
00:43:46.200 --> 00:43:51.240
skin wound healing, things like that, so it's a very broad application, osteoarthritis,
456
00:43:51.240 --> 00:43:57.480
you know, we were talking earlier about arthritis, this immunomodulatory capacity of these products
457
00:43:57.480 --> 00:44:04.040
is able to bring immediate pain relief to a lot of people and then reduce inflammation,
458
00:44:04.040 --> 00:44:09.800
so you're getting, you know, remarkable. You get remodeling of the of the joint or not quite
459
00:44:09.800 --> 00:44:15.720
that. Yeah, we don't know yet, it's going to take time, but we're hopeful. Yeah, wow. Okay,
460
00:44:16.520 --> 00:44:19.960
I mean, we're going to have to get on. But then we use the regenerative medicine on top of the
461
00:44:19.960 --> 00:44:26.040
surgery to recover. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so let's move into, and now you've already, you mentioned
462
00:44:26.040 --> 00:44:30.360
exosomes, you've mentioned growth factors a number of times, and let's talk about exosomes and
463
00:44:30.360 --> 00:44:36.200
growth factors because those are of all the things we've talked about are probably the most
464
00:44:36.200 --> 00:44:42.920
available to people now. And before we started recording the podcast, you were expressing some
465
00:44:43.640 --> 00:44:48.200
frustration at the nomenclature that gets used in the industry still, people are still talking
466
00:44:48.200 --> 00:44:54.440
about getting a stem cell infusion or, you know, and so maybe where we should start, it's let's
467
00:44:54.520 --> 00:45:00.840
differentiate this whole idea of stem cells, exosomes, and these growth factors and talk about what,
468
00:45:01.400 --> 00:45:06.040
and you've touched on some of it already in our conversation anyway, but let's kind of reposition
469
00:45:06.040 --> 00:45:10.840
ourselves so we can then move into this whole exosome and growth factor conversation.
470
00:45:11.720 --> 00:45:18.280
Okay, well, the field that we work in is the field of regenerative medicine. So we want to regenerate
471
00:45:18.280 --> 00:45:26.440
and rejuvenate cells and organs. Now, just like Kleenex is used to describe tissue paper and
472
00:45:26.440 --> 00:45:32.920
vacuums are used to describe, sorry, who has used to describe vacuum stem cells have been used as
473
00:45:32.920 --> 00:45:38.280
a catchable term to describe anything in regenerative medicine. And unfortunately from a scientific
474
00:45:38.280 --> 00:45:43.800
perspective and from a medical perspective, that's very dangerous because then people have no idea
475
00:45:43.880 --> 00:45:49.960
what they're getting. Patients don't know what they're getting and for the most part physicians
476
00:45:49.960 --> 00:45:54.040
or healthcare providers don't even know what they're providing their patients because they hear
477
00:45:54.040 --> 00:45:58.760
from sales reps, here's our stem cell product, it's the best in the market, yada, yada, yada,
478
00:45:58.760 --> 00:46:09.240
but there's no data that supports it and the outcomes are often unreported. So the term regenerative
479
00:46:09.240 --> 00:46:14.200
medicine is not synonymous with stem cell therapy. In the United States and actually around the
480
00:46:14.200 --> 00:46:20.280
world, in this industry, we do not do stem cell therapy. There are not stem cells in these products.
481
00:46:20.280 --> 00:46:25.240
There are stem cells in in cord blood, hematopoietic stem cells. So if we're rejuvenating the bone
482
00:46:25.240 --> 00:46:30.520
marrow, you get stem cells, the bone marrow grows back. But there are no stem cells in Warton's jelly.
483
00:46:30.520 --> 00:46:37.880
There are no stem cells in purified amniotic fluid. MSCs are not stem cells. They were misbranded
484
00:46:37.880 --> 00:46:43.400
for a long time. When Arnold Kaplan first described them, he defined them as stem cells because he
485
00:46:43.400 --> 00:46:49.640
was seeing multilineage differentiation in vitro. What that means is they were able to become
486
00:46:49.640 --> 00:46:54.760
different tissues in a petri dish, but that doesn't happen in the body. So for a long time, we were
487
00:46:54.760 --> 00:46:59.720
arguing they are not stem cells. Before he passed away, he made a very big point, published many
488
00:46:59.720 --> 00:47:05.800
papers explaining MSCs are not stem cells. They are mizenchymal signaling cells. Their signals are
489
00:47:05.800 --> 00:47:11.160
very important in regenerative medicine, but they are not stem cells. So if you're receiving MSCs,
490
00:47:11.160 --> 00:47:16.360
you are not receiving stem cell therapy. Stem cell therapy is a misnomer and it doesn't really
491
00:47:16.360 --> 00:47:28.840
exist. What does exist is the ability to transfer regenerative outcomes by giving signals
492
00:47:28.840 --> 00:47:34.920
to your stem cells. So the stem cells throughout your body can receive those signals and respond.
493
00:47:34.920 --> 00:47:38.760
So if we're going to talk about stem cell therapy, what we're really seeing is we're giving
494
00:47:38.760 --> 00:47:45.000
therapy to your stem cells. Right. Got it. You're not bringing new stem cells on the job. You're
495
00:47:45.000 --> 00:47:48.680
using what you've got. You're giving them the instruction manuals and you're giving them the raw
496
00:47:48.680 --> 00:47:52.760
material. So think about it like building a building. If you want to build a building, you need an
497
00:47:52.760 --> 00:47:57.320
instruction manual and you need raw materials, bricks and mortar and things like that. That's what
498
00:47:57.320 --> 00:48:02.600
these regenerative products do is we give back to the body the thing that it no longer has because
499
00:48:02.600 --> 00:48:06.520
it's turned off the gene so it no longer has the instructions and it's turned off the other genes
500
00:48:06.520 --> 00:48:12.200
that would provide the raw materials. So we're giving that back. The exosome contains the RNA
501
00:48:12.200 --> 00:48:16.680
with the instructions and the milieu around it, the cloth though, the other growth factors,
502
00:48:16.680 --> 00:48:22.440
are the raw materials the body can utilize to respond to those instructions. So cool. When I talk
503
00:48:22.440 --> 00:48:26.120
about blood sugar, a lot of people tune out because they think it's only relevant to people with
504
00:48:26.120 --> 00:48:31.800
type 2 diabetes. But blood sugar is a topic everybody needs to understand. One of the big keys to
505
00:48:31.880 --> 00:48:38.120
optimal health and aging well is to having balanced blood sugar. Here's a surprising fact. Research
506
00:48:38.120 --> 00:48:43.880
shows that even healthy people have wild swings in their blood sugar after eating. That's not the worst
507
00:48:43.880 --> 00:48:49.800
of it. Those spikes in blood sugar force your pancreas to work harder and are associated over time
508
00:48:49.800 --> 00:48:55.080
with things like weight gain and even risk of heart attack and stroke. Here's the reason I even
509
00:48:55.080 --> 00:49:00.360
bring this up. My friends and bi optimizers have created a blood sugar optimization product called
510
00:49:00.360 --> 00:49:05.480
Burberry Breakthrough. And I don't think I'm overstating my case when I say it's revolutionary.
511
00:49:06.120 --> 00:49:10.920
Simply take two capsules 15 minutes before a meal and your body will push carbs and glucose
512
00:49:10.920 --> 00:49:16.600
into your muscles to be used as fuel instead of turning them into fat. As a result you'll enjoy
513
00:49:16.600 --> 00:49:21.720
more stable energy without the post meal crash. Plus you'll have better workouts, faster gains in
514
00:49:21.720 --> 00:49:27.480
the gym and an easier time leaning out. But perhaps the biggest benefit of all is that it will
515
00:49:27.480 --> 00:49:34.760
improve your overall health. To get yours head over to bioptimizers.com forward slash bio-nat
516
00:49:34.760 --> 00:49:40.520
and enter the code bio-nat to get 10% off your order. All right so let's talk about exosomes
517
00:49:40.520 --> 00:49:45.480
here because you just described a package and really it's you know it's like when my husband throws
518
00:49:45.480 --> 00:49:49.160
away the manual for a new thing and I'm like why would you do that now we don't know how to use it
519
00:49:49.160 --> 00:49:55.560
but now we have YouTube you can find YouTube YouTube is like you know the exosome of the world but
520
00:49:55.640 --> 00:50:03.640
let's talk about these exosome treatments we don't have enough time to even go down that road
521
00:50:03.640 --> 00:50:09.080
which is not worth it. So let's talk about exosomes that people are getting because I want to talk
522
00:50:09.080 --> 00:50:14.680
about them and then there's also there's new products out there right now that are saying we're
523
00:50:14.680 --> 00:50:20.120
not exosomes what we are are the signaling they're and I'm not even sure on the language they're
524
00:50:20.120 --> 00:50:25.080
using but we're the signaling molecules we're the we've broken open the exosome and we've released
525
00:50:25.640 --> 00:50:30.200
the the you're nodding which means you know what I'm sort of trying to talk about here
526
00:50:31.480 --> 00:50:36.600
maybe we can differentiate between those two because these are I think what's happening is as
527
00:50:36.600 --> 00:50:40.840
this is growing and expanding you get people that kind of pick stuff up along the way and go okay we
528
00:50:40.840 --> 00:50:44.920
can do something with this and they just go off and commercialize it meanwhile you're back in
529
00:50:44.920 --> 00:50:49.880
the trenches going yeah but we haven't figured it all out yet yeah I mean there's there's taking
530
00:50:49.880 --> 00:50:55.480
board steps and then there's just being careless and unfortunately there's a lot of careless groups
531
00:50:55.480 --> 00:51:00.040
out there but you know for anybody that doesn't understand what an exosome is I'll just give a quick
532
00:51:00.040 --> 00:51:06.280
sort of definition and explanation of an exosome so all of the cells in the body communicate to
533
00:51:06.280 --> 00:51:09.240
each other and there are different ways they can communicate they can communicate
534
00:51:09.240 --> 00:51:14.440
communicate locally or over long distances now when cell is communicating over long distance
535
00:51:14.440 --> 00:51:20.760
that's called a paracrine signal and in order to do that the signals have to navigate all of the
536
00:51:20.760 --> 00:51:24.360
different enzymes in the body that want to break those signals down because we don't want to lose
537
00:51:24.360 --> 00:51:29.800
signals just going around the body causing tumors or anything like that right so we have enzymes in
538
00:51:29.800 --> 00:51:34.840
our body that look out for proteins and things that shouldn't be there or and they they gobble them
539
00:51:34.840 --> 00:51:40.120
up and they're gone so what when a cell wants to communicate to a cell a long distance away
540
00:51:40.120 --> 00:51:46.920
it takes those signals and packages of them inside a bubble of lipid so this is also lipid bilayer
541
00:51:46.920 --> 00:51:53.160
that's called an exosome and it makes billions of them and it releases them out of the cell into
542
00:51:53.160 --> 00:51:58.920
the bloodstream or into the interstitial space the exosomes can move around and on their surface they
543
00:51:58.920 --> 00:52:04.840
have markers and those markers are like a FedEx package address so we take that FedEx package
544
00:52:04.840 --> 00:52:09.240
this is the analogy we package it with our information that we want to share with another cell
545
00:52:09.240 --> 00:52:13.800
we put the address label on it and then we send it out so as that exosome is moving around the
546
00:52:13.800 --> 00:52:20.280
body those markers that are on the surface are looking for compatible receptors and when it finds
547
00:52:20.280 --> 00:52:26.120
them it then delivers the cargo into that cell so if you've got an inflamed cell if you've got a
548
00:52:26.120 --> 00:52:31.080
senescent cell if you've got some injury happening and the exosomes are floating around there those
549
00:52:31.080 --> 00:52:37.480
inflammatory markers will allow the exosomes to adhere and then release their cargo their
550
00:52:37.480 --> 00:52:44.200
information into the cell that needs it and then in addition you have these signals from the
551
00:52:44.200 --> 00:52:49.240
amniotic fluid that give the cell then the raw material that it needs in order to respond to
552
00:52:49.240 --> 00:52:55.400
those signals of course there's some raw material in the exosome too so it's able to make its own
553
00:52:55.400 --> 00:53:01.080
raw material so that mRNA that's in the package goes into the cell and it can make copies of
554
00:53:01.240 --> 00:53:08.760
itself it can make copies of the protein that's needed so exosomes are the products from cells they
555
00:53:08.760 --> 00:53:14.840
are not cells themselves they are not stem cells I know a lot of people say come get stem cells and
556
00:53:14.840 --> 00:53:20.600
what they're actually giving them is are exosomes again not all exosomes are created equal so
557
00:53:21.240 --> 00:53:28.680
as I said all cells in your body make exosomes but do you want old hepatic exosomes which are
558
00:53:28.680 --> 00:53:35.000
sending signals a b or c around the body or do you want young fetal exosomes that are saying
559
00:53:35.000 --> 00:53:40.600
grown new tissue grown new blood vessels modulate inflammation those are the signals those are the
560
00:53:40.600 --> 00:53:45.560
instructions you want and that's what we can get from the amniotic fluid are those young signals
561
00:53:45.560 --> 00:53:50.840
packaged inside those young exosomes being given then to a patient so they can utilize them
562
00:53:52.440 --> 00:53:57.560
so what you're saying is if you're in a clinic and they're offering you an exosome infusion
563
00:53:57.560 --> 00:54:01.320
what you want to make sure I mean there's lots of things you want to make sure but you want to make
564
00:54:01.320 --> 00:54:06.600
sure that those exosomes were derived from perinatal tissue where else would they come from the
565
00:54:06.600 --> 00:54:11.160
placenta you can purify the placenta and you can remove them you can purify the umbilical cord
566
00:54:11.160 --> 00:54:16.760
and remove them but the majority you're going to get are from the amniotic fluid and so it's a really
567
00:54:16.760 --> 00:54:21.320
good source but you know there are a lot of companies out there that don't really know what they're
568
00:54:21.400 --> 00:54:29.000
doing and so while they may claim to have exosomes they perhaps do not or perhaps they say we've
569
00:54:29.000 --> 00:54:35.720
got lyophilized product which means freeze dried but what they don't realize is that when you freeze
570
00:54:35.720 --> 00:54:41.880
dry membranes so an exosome has a membrane just like a cell when you freeze dry it cracks open
571
00:54:41.880 --> 00:54:46.440
and it's destroyed and there are a lot of proteins that are soluble that are floating around
572
00:54:46.520 --> 00:54:51.480
that denature when you when you freeze dry something these proteins unfold and they can't
573
00:54:51.480 --> 00:54:58.520
refold again so freeze drying never really works um when you when somebody has a freeze dried
574
00:54:58.520 --> 00:55:03.320
product injected into them sometimes they might say they've seen improvement but that
575
00:55:03.320 --> 00:55:09.800
improvement typically is similar to receiving PRP which is from your own blood it's the platelets
576
00:55:09.800 --> 00:55:15.560
from your own blood and the way they work is by forming an irritation you inject that into somebody's
577
00:55:15.560 --> 00:55:21.720
injury it elicits an immune response and irritation which then the body responds to to try to fix
578
00:55:21.720 --> 00:55:26.840
so it's not really regenerative medicine you're still using your own immune system and no other
579
00:55:26.840 --> 00:55:32.120
additional goodies and that's sort of how these damaged lyophilized products work they form an
580
00:55:32.120 --> 00:55:38.040
irritation and you're just sort of relying on your own immune system to fix you not taking these
581
00:55:38.040 --> 00:55:45.160
young signals like you would if you were using perinatal products that is fascinating so well yeah
582
00:55:45.160 --> 00:55:49.400
because now you no longer have the envelope with the address on it yeah everything's destroyed so now
583
00:55:49.400 --> 00:55:54.440
it's just debris and when you have debris yeah so it's just stuff and the body doesn't like having
584
00:55:54.440 --> 00:55:59.800
stuff floating around so it elicits an immune response you know I always give the analogy of a dog
585
00:55:59.800 --> 00:56:05.720
licking a wound old wives tales where if you fell over and scraped your elbow have your dog lick it
586
00:56:05.720 --> 00:56:10.760
because it heals faster and it seems to and that's because it elicits an immune response because of all
587
00:56:10.760 --> 00:56:16.120
those particles that are in the saliva of the dog get into the wound it elicits a stronger immune
588
00:56:16.120 --> 00:56:21.000
system so it technically should heal faster but that's not regenerative medicine you don't only
589
00:56:21.000 --> 00:56:26.360
pain hundreds or thousands of dollars just to have an irritant injected into your body why not
590
00:56:26.360 --> 00:56:31.720
have an actual regenerative medicine that gives your body the resources and tools to actually heal
591
00:56:31.720 --> 00:56:37.720
without a scar to actually reduce pain to actually elicit a regenerative response
592
00:56:39.400 --> 00:56:45.880
wow okay so on the exosome front one of the things we talked about before we hit record was
593
00:56:45.880 --> 00:56:52.440
all exosomes are not made equal or all exosome products that are available on the market right now
594
00:56:52.440 --> 00:56:57.880
are not made equal can you help people to understand how they even begin to know what questions to
595
00:56:58.360 --> 00:57:04.760
to make sure that what they're being offered is what they want it's a really good question it's
596
00:57:04.760 --> 00:57:08.680
that's the issue that's plaguing this entire industry right now is that for most people it's
597
00:57:08.680 --> 00:57:15.080
almost impossible to know what you're getting you know physicians often are undereducated when
598
00:57:15.080 --> 00:57:20.600
it comes to their product because they rely on the honesty of their sales rep and the sales rep
599
00:57:20.600 --> 00:57:26.280
is typically motivated by sales and so you know they hear certain buzzwords they don't really
600
00:57:26.280 --> 00:57:32.280
understand the science behind it so they use the words the physician responds best to the
601
00:57:32.280 --> 00:57:36.360
physician thinks he's getting x y and z when really he's getting a b and c he's getting nothing
602
00:57:36.360 --> 00:57:42.440
at all perhaps and then the patient doesn't ask the questions trust the doctor and receives the
603
00:57:44.200 --> 00:57:49.240
therapy maybe doesn't have any outcome and then blames the doctor or blames the technology and
604
00:57:49.240 --> 00:57:55.720
says I went for exosomes and they didn't work this whole industry is snake oil snake oil so but
605
00:57:55.720 --> 00:58:00.440
but you know in some cases that there is a lot of junk on the market there is a lot because
606
00:58:00.440 --> 00:58:06.280
these companies are owned by previous sales reps or that owned by businessmen that don't understand
607
00:58:06.280 --> 00:58:10.440
the science they just want to make the money because this industry is exploding but you know
608
00:58:10.440 --> 00:58:16.520
it is we you know I'm a PhD my partner is an MD the dean emeritus of the University of Miami
609
00:58:16.520 --> 00:58:21.160
Medical School together we have a reputation to maintain and we also have an ethical
610
00:58:21.640 --> 00:58:28.120
responsibility and so we only provide products that are bedded appropriately that are safe
611
00:58:28.120 --> 00:58:34.280
tested for infectious disease appropriately tested for sterility genetically tested as well
612
00:58:34.840 --> 00:58:38.840
we even though it's a cellular way we're testing the the mother's genetics to make sure there
613
00:58:38.840 --> 00:58:44.760
are no genetic abnormalities and then we you know are able to deploy the products in a way that
614
00:58:44.760 --> 00:58:48.760
we know is safe and effective we know we have stuff in it we know that that stuff is regenerative
615
00:58:48.760 --> 00:58:54.840
and we hear the outcomes because we're publishing them so what physicians need to be asking are
616
00:58:54.840 --> 00:59:01.000
things like are you FDA registered has the FDA inspected your lab now things like that are
617
00:59:01.000 --> 00:59:06.680
going to be complicated as well because if you are FDA inspected in this field you will receive
618
00:59:06.680 --> 00:59:11.960
a warning letter because the FDA does not allow and like these therapies we've received a warning
619
00:59:11.960 --> 00:59:15.800
letter everybody else in the industry has received a warning letter or will receive a warning
620
00:59:16.120 --> 00:59:20.040
if they haven't been if they haven't received one yet and that's confusing for people because
621
00:59:20.040 --> 00:59:26.680
it's like well the FDA has sent them a warning letter how can they be safe no matter what you do
622
00:59:26.680 --> 00:59:31.080
whether you're the worst of the worst or the best of the best the FDA treats everybody the same
623
00:59:31.080 --> 00:59:37.080
unfortunately we all get tied by the same brush but the patient and the physician need to be able
624
00:59:37.080 --> 00:59:42.360
to differentiate and the only way the physician can really do that is to understand whether
625
00:59:42.680 --> 00:59:50.200
FDA registered FDA inspected what were the observations in the in the in the warning letter and
626
00:59:51.160 --> 00:59:58.040
go see the lab you know if the if the manufacturer won't tell you who's making the product or where
627
00:59:58.040 --> 01:00:02.920
it's being made where the lab is and doesn't invite you to come and take a tour of the lab that's
628
01:00:02.920 --> 01:00:08.840
a major red flag because a lot of these companies that are making millions of dollars they have a
629
01:00:08.840 --> 01:00:13.160
lab in somebody's garage when the FDA sort of catches up with them they close that lab down and
630
01:00:13.160 --> 01:00:16.920
open up another one and they've got another two or three years where they can keep making junk
631
01:00:16.920 --> 01:00:22.600
and and making money and nothing nothing seems to happen to them and that happens all the time so
632
01:00:22.600 --> 01:00:28.600
if they don't let you go see the lab you shouldn't be buying the product wow so you're talking to
633
01:00:28.600 --> 01:00:34.440
the physician now talking to the physician the patient is at a disadvantage because they don't
634
01:00:34.520 --> 01:00:38.840
really know how to ask those questions they don't really have access to the manufacturer
635
01:00:38.840 --> 01:00:45.400
and they they wouldn't probably know how to understand the information they received anyway
636
01:00:45.400 --> 01:00:49.800
but they have well but you cannot you can you can make sure that your physician is asking those
637
01:00:49.800 --> 01:00:54.680
questions right yes that's that's what they can do they can make sure by asking the physician
638
01:00:54.680 --> 01:00:58.600
you know have you visited the lab have you inspected the lab where is the lab who's making the
639
01:00:58.600 --> 01:01:02.600
product you know I have a PhD in regenerative medicine I've been at the bench 20 years but I've
640
01:01:02.600 --> 01:01:08.840
walked into labs where they have you know texts that are out of high school or college with no
641
01:01:08.840 --> 01:01:13.640
experience and the following a recipe that was found online or something you know that you can't
642
01:01:13.640 --> 01:01:20.360
make products like it yeah I've I just came back from a presentation where I showed a series of
643
01:01:20.360 --> 01:01:26.040
photographs that we take we had taken inside competing labs and showed the types of incubators
644
01:01:26.040 --> 01:01:31.160
they were using the types of there were the tech was in street clothing street shoes they had
645
01:01:31.720 --> 01:01:37.240
lab coats instead of full scrubs the the hood they were using was right next to the lunch area
646
01:01:37.240 --> 01:01:41.960
and every you know it's like the these things are happening right now and unless the physician is
647
01:01:41.960 --> 01:01:47.640
in there looking to see whether they are CGMP compliant they have good documentation they they
648
01:01:47.640 --> 01:01:52.200
appear to you know I put a photograph of my lab and this other lab you know side by side and
649
01:01:52.200 --> 01:01:56.840
like these guys are at A4M in other places like that with booths and and and selling product
650
01:01:57.560 --> 01:02:01.560
this is our lab look at look at look at the difference our lab looks like a surgical suite because
651
01:02:01.560 --> 01:02:07.320
that's how it should be wow you know not just somebody's closet let's say we've asked the right
652
01:02:07.320 --> 01:02:14.360
questions and we've got the right stuff what can we expect from exosomes and and the associated
653
01:02:14.360 --> 01:02:21.880
growth factors and and all the the cargo yeah that's in the exosome so you already mentioned
654
01:02:21.960 --> 01:02:27.000
a reduction in inflammation a modulation of the immune system which is how the reduction
655
01:02:27.000 --> 01:02:34.200
in inflammation has is there more like is there regeneration that is possible what are the types
656
01:02:34.200 --> 01:02:42.280
of conditions that people should be thinking about exosomes for yeah well let's use the example of
657
01:02:42.280 --> 01:02:49.000
burns we've we've published on that where we had a firework incident and a woman had second
658
01:02:49.000 --> 01:02:53.800
and third degree burns on the back of her leg she was in 10 out of 10 pain immediately put on
659
01:02:53.800 --> 01:02:59.240
opioids and you know as you know we've got a major opioid problem in this country the physician
660
01:02:59.240 --> 01:03:04.280
thought that her recovery would take two to three months and recover extensive require extensive
661
01:03:04.280 --> 01:03:10.600
skin grafting we applied the physicians applied the product topically and within six days the
662
01:03:10.600 --> 01:03:15.240
injuries were almost completely gone within 30 minutes of applying that the product her pain was
663
01:03:15.240 --> 01:03:20.680
from 10 out of 10 to 2 out of 10 come on yeah so we reduced the pain we reduced the inflammation
664
01:03:21.640 --> 01:03:25.640
the papers published so I'll be happy to share it with you it's also on my link maybe give us a
665
01:03:25.640 --> 01:03:30.520
link so that we can post it in the show notes that would be great and so within six days with no
666
01:03:30.520 --> 01:03:36.920
tissue grafting at all the injuries were almost completely gone similar with diabetic ulcers now
667
01:03:36.920 --> 01:03:42.680
most diabetic ulcers do not recover and and they're recalcitrant to treatments so we've had
668
01:03:42.760 --> 01:03:47.960
patients that are in hospital receiving every possible treatment for this diabetic ulcer and it's
669
01:03:47.960 --> 01:03:54.120
just growing and growing to a point where they become amputation candidates so we can apply this
670
01:03:54.120 --> 01:04:00.040
product topically over a period of time and what we see is that the the the lesion stops growing
671
01:04:00.040 --> 01:04:06.680
it starts reverting the the blood vessels grow back the nerves grow back and the tissue grows back
672
01:04:06.680 --> 01:04:12.280
and it looks like baby soft tissue with no scar so we're getting regeneration with not only we're
673
01:04:12.280 --> 01:04:17.240
getting immunomodulation and pain reduction but we're also getting tissue regeneration in
674
01:04:17.240 --> 01:04:23.320
examples like this that's incredible okay so if somebody listening to this has or has someone
675
01:04:23.320 --> 01:04:29.960
in their life with a diabetic ulcer or injuries that are not non-healing you know we have
676
01:04:29.960 --> 01:04:35.000
power now let's talk about joint like joints like for example you know everybody's got a shoulder
677
01:04:35.000 --> 01:04:42.120
injury yeah or knee injury what about in the case of hips is it possible that people could
678
01:04:42.120 --> 01:04:50.280
either delay or potentially avoid a replacement of a joint are we there yet or not quite yeah that's
679
01:04:50.280 --> 01:04:56.360
our hope you know when we took iMac regeneration centers public in 2019 that was a big focus of
680
01:04:56.360 --> 01:05:01.560
theirs were hip joints and delaying the need for surgery and they actually had a big wall of
681
01:05:01.560 --> 01:05:07.960
canes where somebody would come in on a cane and and be a candidate for surgery and after a
682
01:05:07.960 --> 01:05:12.280
course of treatment rehabilitation and regenerative medicine they got to a point where they didn't
683
01:05:12.280 --> 01:05:19.720
need their cane anymore and so either you've you've eliminated the need for the surgery or you
684
01:05:19.720 --> 01:05:24.760
perhaps push the need for surgery back because that's a great thing too you know if you delay the
685
01:05:24.760 --> 01:05:29.320
need for surgery that also delays the need for a second surgery because I think it's yeah
686
01:05:29.400 --> 01:05:34.680
greater than 30 percent of joint surgeries fail and so at some point if you get a surgery too early
687
01:05:34.680 --> 01:05:39.720
you may need another surgery in your lifeline so if you can delay that surgery by 10 or 20 years
688
01:05:39.720 --> 01:05:45.160
you know maybe you know you've done yourself a huge favor but I know we know as what'll come down
689
01:05:45.160 --> 01:05:49.720
the pipes in the next 20 to 30 years I mean you could refine yeah if we have additional funding
690
01:05:49.720 --> 01:05:53.320
we can refine our products even further because again like breast milk we don't know everything
691
01:05:53.320 --> 01:05:57.640
that's in it we're learning more and more about it but if we can fund more research to actually
692
01:05:57.640 --> 01:06:03.720
find that key thing perhaps maybe we can make it a much more efficient but you know again you
693
01:06:03.720 --> 01:06:08.840
mentioned shoulders I had a major shoulder issue right as we were developing these products
694
01:06:08.840 --> 01:06:15.000
and once they became available I actually had an injection into my shoulder I had an impinged
695
01:06:15.000 --> 01:06:21.720
nerve and what the the healthcare provider was able to do was under guidance use our purified
696
01:06:21.720 --> 01:06:28.440
amniotic fluid to hydro dissect the nerve away from the fascia away from the tissue which normally
697
01:06:28.440 --> 01:06:34.920
would be incredibly painful and you know extensively painful for a long period of time but because
698
01:06:34.920 --> 01:06:40.600
we injected this product not only was the pain modulated but it induced repaired because you're
699
01:06:40.600 --> 01:06:46.840
tearing the tissue apart so it induced repairs so I went from massive agony for months my
700
01:06:46.840 --> 01:06:51.720
pain got worse over a course of five or six months to within two weeks going from a hundred
701
01:06:51.720 --> 01:06:58.760
percent pain down to ten percent pain wow and now your shoulders great yeah now I mean the
702
01:06:58.760 --> 01:07:03.240
the impingement was caused by a bone spur which is still there so I still have the occasional
703
01:07:03.240 --> 01:07:07.240
like discomfort there's certain positions while I'm sleeping that I can still feel it but it's
704
01:07:07.240 --> 01:07:12.200
it's I mean I can do anything that I want with my shoulder now it's I would reach behind
705
01:07:12.200 --> 01:07:17.480
and was throw up the pain previously yeah yeah now we've I've had that yeah I mean not as bad as
706
01:07:17.480 --> 01:07:22.680
you because I didn't need a hydro dissection but I've I've I've been to that movie what about the
707
01:07:22.680 --> 01:07:28.680
people that are going in and having an IV so when we're doing an IV of exosomes assuming that
708
01:07:28.680 --> 01:07:32.920
they're good that it's the right stuff and all that that's where we're going to be seeing those
709
01:07:32.920 --> 01:07:41.320
general immunomodulation benefits could we say that maybe those types of IVs could regenerate
710
01:07:41.320 --> 01:07:47.160
not regenerate but get the immune system working better to the point where it's better more vigilant
711
01:07:47.160 --> 01:07:52.840
against certain things like cancer like we can't say that it's anti cancer but if we have an immune
712
01:07:52.840 --> 01:08:00.680
system that is kind of rebooted and more functional it kind of follows that it might be able to avoid
713
01:08:00.680 --> 01:08:04.920
trouble yeah so I'm trying not to say anything that's going to land anybody jail yeah I'm going to
714
01:08:04.920 --> 01:08:08.600
make a disclosure as well I'm I'm not a physician so I can't give any medical advice I can't
715
01:08:08.600 --> 01:08:13.560
recommend anything to go for IV and for sure but from a scientific perspective that's sort of where
716
01:08:13.560 --> 01:08:19.480
we where we landed right where this pregnancy is a natural form of heterochronic parabiosis so
717
01:08:19.480 --> 01:08:23.480
if you're taking those young signals and you're putting them into your your blood system
718
01:08:25.000 --> 01:08:29.720
it's going to provide those signals to your to your immune system to the rest of your body to
719
01:08:29.720 --> 01:08:34.440
everywhere that's perfused throughout your body it's going to provide those young signals
720
01:08:35.080 --> 01:08:42.200
and instruction manuals to theoretically stave off the aging process you know if you're receiving
721
01:08:42.200 --> 01:08:46.840
signals that allow you to heal more readily perhaps you're not as achy in the morning perhaps
722
01:08:46.840 --> 01:08:51.560
the that that arthritic joint is going to start improving perhaps the brain fog is going to improve
723
01:08:51.560 --> 01:08:57.160
again I'm not recommending this is a medical intervention I'm saying from a scientific perspective
724
01:08:57.160 --> 01:09:03.000
these are the types of things that we're studying in the clinic and seeing quite remarkable outcomes
725
01:09:03.800 --> 01:09:09.800
that's amazing okay well listen I could keep asking questions for a really long time I think
726
01:09:09.800 --> 01:09:16.200
what I'm going to do is I want to I want to close with a couple of kind of more thematic questions
727
01:09:16.200 --> 01:09:22.440
but before I ask those what is your advice to people right now on exosome therapy like
728
01:09:22.440 --> 01:09:26.520
they're what's your best advice to people who are thinking about this
729
01:09:27.480 --> 01:09:32.600
um all right I mean you know I think for the most part you're a thumbs up but you got to do
730
01:09:32.600 --> 01:09:39.080
your homework so what would be three or four things you want people to know about exosome therapy
731
01:09:39.080 --> 01:09:44.600
if it's accessible to them and and they're going to look for it yeah the most important thing I
732
01:09:44.600 --> 01:09:48.920
think is that not all exosomes are created equal like we said so you've got to do your homework
733
01:09:48.920 --> 01:09:54.600
make sure your physician is aware of who you're buying from I'm even asked for the company's name
734
01:09:55.240 --> 01:10:00.920
demand it demand to know who the company is and then Google them you know find out look look
735
01:10:00.920 --> 01:10:06.760
at look online and and look at their lab outside you can and if it looks like a slaughterhouse
736
01:10:07.800 --> 01:10:12.280
probably avoid it but if it looks like you know it could be it could have a lab inside or you know
737
01:10:12.280 --> 01:10:16.760
these you know these are the sorts of things you could do but demand those demand those things
738
01:10:16.760 --> 01:10:22.200
demand counts how many exosomes does it have and how did they measure them oh well we don't
739
01:10:22.200 --> 01:10:27.080
know how they measured them that's a red flag you know so make sure that your physician has done
740
01:10:27.080 --> 01:10:32.600
their diligence on on the product and make sure you're not getting ripped off you know a lot of
741
01:10:32.600 --> 01:10:38.440
people might go to certain clinics or abroad and pay 30 40 thousand dollars for product that nobody
742
01:10:38.440 --> 01:10:45.160
understands where you could go to somewhere in the United States and get an exosome treatment for
743
01:10:45.160 --> 01:10:50.200
two three four five thousand dollars and you know that's that's probably about right that's the
744
01:10:50.200 --> 01:10:55.400
sort of ballpark but then there are other modalities don't just here's another here's another sort
745
01:10:55.400 --> 01:11:01.160
of point don't just expect exosomes to be a golden bullet there are other things you have to do
746
01:11:01.160 --> 01:11:08.040
other modalities so for example the best thing somebody can do is reduce sugar intake sugar intake
747
01:11:08.040 --> 01:11:13.560
is the absolute worst thing you can do for your health and for your longevity it is absolutely
748
01:11:13.640 --> 01:11:17.960
the worst toxin that we put in our body and all sugar doesn't matter what sugar it is some sugars
749
01:11:17.960 --> 01:11:22.520
are worse than others unfortunately fructose which you get from fruit and the high fructose
750
01:11:22.520 --> 01:11:29.480
concept is the worst for aging but if you're going to have exosome therapy cut things like sugar
751
01:11:29.480 --> 01:11:34.920
out of your diet try to reduce alcohol try to reduce smoking and other other drugs listen to your
752
01:11:34.920 --> 01:11:41.480
health care provider when it comes to nutrition nutrition is absolutely key reducing cooked foods so
753
01:11:41.560 --> 01:11:47.320
burnt steaks toast biscuits all of these things contain sugar but they also contain these things
754
01:11:47.320 --> 01:11:52.600
called ages and what they are as they are proteins that are cross linked by sugars that are
755
01:11:52.600 --> 01:11:58.680
inflammatory so in the United States what most people don't realize is that the obesity problem
756
01:11:58.680 --> 01:12:05.080
isn't necessarily a caloric imbalance it's all the crap that we eat it's the it's the ages
757
01:12:05.080 --> 01:12:11.240
that are causing inflammation so that obesity isn't us storing energy as much as it is our body
758
01:12:11.240 --> 01:12:16.600
responding to assault to injury thinking it's injured and the body's natural response to injury
759
01:12:16.600 --> 01:12:21.000
is to make adipose so you're chronically injured you're chronically inflamed and the body is
760
01:12:21.000 --> 01:12:26.520
chronically making adipose trying to respond to this onslaught of sugar and ages all the time so
761
01:12:27.400 --> 01:12:31.800
listen to your health care provider make sure they're taking a holistic approach which means diet
762
01:12:31.800 --> 01:12:36.440
exercise and perhaps they're applying some peptides as well again I'm not a physician I can't
763
01:12:36.440 --> 01:12:41.160
recommend that but talk to the health care provider if they've got a comprehensive approach
764
01:12:41.160 --> 01:12:44.840
you know they're probably onto it if they just want to charge you ten thousand dollars for some
765
01:12:44.840 --> 01:12:49.960
random exosome injection or they may even be calling it stem cells you know run for the hills
766
01:12:50.760 --> 01:12:59.400
okay and so in terms of what we would look to exosome therapy today for there are the things
767
01:12:59.400 --> 01:13:05.960
we talked about so burns diabetic ulcer so these are like significant injuries but also
768
01:13:06.920 --> 01:13:12.600
on a on a healthy aging program we could say for immune modulation just for addressing that inflammation
769
01:13:12.600 --> 01:13:17.240
what you're talking about and we know that inflammation one of the 12 homerox of aging is what's
770
01:13:17.800 --> 01:13:23.000
driving the ship here so if we can reduce that we can at least slow things down if not reverse
771
01:13:23.000 --> 01:13:29.240
just think of it as heterocratic parabiosis using the youngest tissue amniotic fluid not the plasma
772
01:13:29.240 --> 01:13:34.840
from plasma exchange think of it as heterocratic parabiosis you're taking those young signals
773
01:13:34.920 --> 01:13:40.600
but the body needs in order to maintain its youthful as youthful and just remembering the term
774
01:13:40.600 --> 01:13:45.880
heterocratic parabiosis and practicing it on a regular basis isn't really into exercise
775
01:13:45.880 --> 01:13:52.440
for your brain and everything else and so and also joints and brain so the information yeah it's
776
01:13:52.440 --> 01:13:58.040
all information this has been so fascinating looking back what was the moment that's been the
777
01:13:58.040 --> 01:14:02.600
most defining in your career and how is it shaped your current work I mean if anybody's been paying
778
01:14:02.600 --> 01:14:08.200
attention I think they know but you know I had a couple of amazing moments in my career especially
779
01:14:08.200 --> 01:14:13.640
the you know the first one being the discovery that we can culture expand the hematoplex stem cells
780
01:14:13.640 --> 01:14:20.120
that was that was huge then my second main observation was that we could induce repair in a heart
781
01:14:20.120 --> 01:14:25.960
I'm a million heart when you know we have so much cardiovascular disease in this world because the
782
01:14:25.960 --> 01:14:32.040
the adult heart doesn't repair it cannot repair but the heart retains this small window of
783
01:14:32.040 --> 01:14:37.080
ability as soon as you're born where it can repair injury and I discovered and that's what led to
784
01:14:37.080 --> 01:14:41.720
the the American Heart Association Prize and the cover of circulation research a way to extend
785
01:14:41.720 --> 01:14:46.840
that window so that we can repair the heart over that period of time which means again it's possible
786
01:14:46.840 --> 01:14:50.680
if it's possible in nature we can do it in adults we just haven't been able to pursue that research
787
01:14:51.960 --> 01:14:58.760
and any further yet but really the most defining moment was when I realized what aging was I you know
788
01:14:59.080 --> 01:15:03.560
as a regenerative medicine biologist I was always interested in aging but it was always on the
789
01:15:03.560 --> 01:15:08.360
back burner you know we all the people get sicker faster and all those things we knew that but we
790
01:15:08.360 --> 01:15:14.040
didn't really delve deeper into the question and so I realized that if I want to understand how to
791
01:15:14.040 --> 01:15:20.440
fix things that are wrong in the body I need to understand how they get wrong and the the
792
01:15:20.440 --> 01:15:25.400
clue to how they get wrong is to understand the aging process because that's how everything gets
793
01:15:26.120 --> 01:15:33.480
so I had to understand aging and so I spent a very long time in a theoretical space understanding
794
01:15:33.480 --> 01:15:39.800
what aging was and studying other scientists and everything I realized I felt they were all wrong
795
01:15:39.800 --> 01:15:43.560
it didn't it didn't make sense that we weren't making any progress based on their theories
796
01:15:43.560 --> 01:15:48.040
and so I went back all the way back to the beginning to the big bang and I'm not even joking
797
01:15:48.040 --> 01:15:54.520
to understand that aging is driven by entropy and it's a long story it's in my book and everything
798
01:15:54.680 --> 01:15:59.800
that hasn't come out yet but that was my biggest defining moment was understanding aging is
799
01:15:59.800 --> 01:16:06.120
driven by entropy we need to understand how entropy is metabolized or used or manifest in the body
800
01:16:06.120 --> 01:16:10.840
and once we understand that that is going to be our key to aging and that has completely redefined
801
01:16:10.840 --> 01:16:19.640
my entire approach to everything that I do that's amazing all right legacy and impact what legacy
802
01:16:20.360 --> 01:16:23.800
do you hope to leave in the field of regenerative medicine and longevity well
803
01:16:24.520 --> 01:16:29.480
I feel that we're already sort of moving that direction I get letters from you know NFL
804
01:16:29.480 --> 01:16:34.280
players that you know you know I can't mention any names but you know they're featured on the news
805
01:16:34.280 --> 01:16:38.040
that they've had serious injuries and they've recovered faster than anybody can understand we
806
01:16:38.040 --> 01:16:43.080
don't understand how this superhuman athlete is recovering faster well they're being treated
807
01:16:43.080 --> 01:16:49.240
with with our products you know so and you know I get letters from people whose lives have been
808
01:16:49.240 --> 01:16:53.640
changed with autoimmune disease and now they get their life back I've had that that is from their
809
01:16:53.640 --> 01:16:58.120
kids saying you know thank you for saving our mummy and things like that that you know that's
810
01:16:58.120 --> 01:17:02.120
that's an ongoing legacy where I where I feel like I'm making a difference already you know
811
01:17:02.120 --> 01:17:07.160
people whose limbs would have been removed you know and have now have maintained their limbs but
812
01:17:07.160 --> 01:17:13.080
really ultimately I want to see through the ex prize I want to see hopefully some research
813
01:17:13.080 --> 01:17:18.360
dollars come in for our for our scientific research not just our clinical side so that I can find
814
01:17:18.360 --> 01:17:23.880
that switch that is my ultimate goal is to find that switch in the human body that does exist
815
01:17:23.880 --> 01:17:29.720
because we know it exists in nature that will allow us to control the aging process and I feel that
816
01:17:29.720 --> 01:17:34.040
if with the appropriate funding I feel like I know where to look now I know where to look it's not
817
01:17:34.040 --> 01:17:37.800
just about entropy that's the that's the start of it but knowing I know where to look now I know
818
01:17:37.800 --> 01:17:43.000
what questions to ask and if I can get that funding to do that research I feel that my legacy will be
819
01:17:43.000 --> 01:17:49.000
that we can pause human aging that's wild well guys you're listening if any of you out there
820
01:17:49.000 --> 01:17:55.480
is in a position to fund this kind of work we're going to tell you where to go all right Dr. White
821
01:17:55.480 --> 01:18:00.760
where do people find you how do they find your work and if somebody's listening to this and feels
822
01:18:00.760 --> 01:18:08.120
they would like to avail themselves of the exit I mean I'm not sure if you have a cosmetic version
823
01:18:08.120 --> 01:18:16.520
of the product is called PSF003 but the trade name is Lillium and so that's topical cosmetic
824
01:18:16.520 --> 01:18:22.440
that we have available and then the medical products are going through clinical trial and
825
01:18:23.240 --> 01:18:27.800
IRB approved studies currently we're in the field of dentistry we're in the field of wound care
826
01:18:28.360 --> 01:18:32.600
across the board so if anybody's interested in that side of things and would like to do a clinical
827
01:18:32.680 --> 01:18:37.720
study with us we're certainly open to that as well so neobiosis.com is our website
828
01:18:38.520 --> 01:18:46.520
lilliumpure.com is our cosmetics out branch and then of course I'm happy to talk on LinkedIn or
829
01:18:46.520 --> 01:18:51.320
at any of the conferences I'm presenting it amazing so we'll put all that into the show notes
830
01:18:51.320 --> 01:18:57.160
the topical cosmetic is available now yep oh okay we'll have to talk about that all right well
831
01:18:57.240 --> 01:19:02.840
this has been absolutely the most fascinating episode this year thank you so much for your
832
01:19:02.840 --> 01:19:08.840
time I'm so glad um we finally made this happen and we're going to have to do this on an annual
833
01:19:08.840 --> 01:19:13.400
basis because there's no way you're standing still and there's going to be new things to talk about
834
01:19:13.400 --> 01:19:19.240
all the time yeah hopefully I'm excited I'll be good yeah well thank you so much again and uh
835
01:19:19.240 --> 01:19:24.200
have a beautiful day thank you so much take care if folks just a quick reminder that all of the
836
01:19:24.200 --> 01:19:31.160
information presented in this podcast is for information purposes only no medical advice no
837
01:19:31.160 --> 01:19:36.600
diagnosing no treatments suggested here before you try anything that you hear about or learn about
838
01:19:36.600 --> 01:19:41.400
here make sure that you check with your medical provider