Clueless / Supermodel

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Hi, welcome to NSYNC, the podcast that explores the history and impact of some
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of your favorite music moments in TV and film. I'm your host, Rachel Brodsky.
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And I'm like, totally bugging.
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The 1995 comedy juggernaut Clueless is widely considered to be one of the best
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teen films of all time, and rightly so.
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Between its shiny happy Beverly Hills setting, hyper-contemporary slang and
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fashion, surprisingly genre-diverse soundtrack,
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and the bubbly cast chemistry, history clueless is both a glossy snapshot of
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mid-90s pop culture and an endlessly quotable somehow so relevant classic that
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never goes out of style featuring.
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A smart snappy soundtrack clueless features tracks from the muffs the mighty
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mighty bostones counting crows luscious jackson coolio bc boys radiohead and
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jill sabule whose supermodel is our needle drop of the week.
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Here to help us unpack this music moment which soundtracks a makeover for britney
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murphy the RIP's tie, is comedian and writer Lane Moore.
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How did Supermodel end up in Clueless? How did both the song and the movie subvert
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the high school experience and makeover scenes in movies?
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And how does Jill Subuel feel about the song's placement nearly 30 years later?
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All this and more on the latest episode of NSYNC.
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That was way harsh, Todd.
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Lane, welcome to the podcast. We're such big fans of yours.
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And also, though, I feel like we go way back.
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So it's also strange to say we're such big fans of yours because I'm just like,
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we're just hanging out with Lane.
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Hanging out with Lane.
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No, it's so nice to be here and to talk about.
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I'm such a Brittany Murphy obsessive, like really obsessive.
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Like I'm one of those people.
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I feel like this is a lot of us, but I'm one of those people who's just like,
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we need to investigate her death.
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Like I'm like a hardcore like this isn't right this is
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fundamentally like a huge culture and the world like this person is i'm it's
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the same way i'm with selena i'm like this matters deeply to me i will want
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answers till the day i die like i will always care about this maybe a little
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too much so i'm i'm happy yeah yeah me.
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Too because like just every now and then i'm scrolling through tiktok and it
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like an old but it feels new to me,
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video of Brittany Murphy from MTV shopping for CDs or renting a video and telling
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MTV what video she's renting.
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And she's just so cute and charming.
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It hurts all over again. So I'm right there.
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So adorably clueless.
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Or did she know too much? I don't know. You know what I mean?
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As a person, I just look back and I'm like, I don't know, whatever.
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I I don't want to get too deep into Brittany Murphy lore too ahead of the time,
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but it's just like, there's so much there.
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She was this like, and I use this word with so much, like this isn't real at
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all, quote unquote chubby,
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AKA she had like a remotely normal body girl from New Jersey who like,
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like to eat a meal at all and went to Hollywood.
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And it was like this whole thing. And so it's interesting because I feel like,
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clueless kind of mirrors reality here a little bit or it was like she couldn't
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fit in with those kids so i feel.
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Like there's definitely something there and there's also
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like like the timing of her death like lines
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up a little bit with amy winehouse which has like a similar narrative of like
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someone who was like too pure for the industry that she was in and couldn't
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really mesh her own personal personality personal demons with like the industry
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that's like meant to chew you up and spit you out.
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Spoilers, we're going to talk a lot about how manipulative the industry is in this episode.
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Fun. Fun.
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But first, a little background on Clueless if you are one of the eight people
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in the world who hasn't seen it.
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Clueless follows Cher Horowitz, played by Alicia Silverstone,
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as a 16-year-old virgin who can't drive, but who nevertheless is one of the
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popular girls at her high school in Beverly Hills.
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Because high school boys are not worth her time, Cher and her best friend Dion,
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played by stacy dash author of there goes my social life from clueless to conservative
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that is a good title though i mean i mean it's.
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Honestly a good job i didn't know that's what it was called she's right.
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Poor stacy dash uh decide that their time is better spent helping out other
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people with their love life at first they set up two of their teachers miss
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geist and mr hall selfishly they think that getting mr hall laid will earn them
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better grades when this works Works so well that I'm thinking I might get a
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visit from the accreditation board.
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Cher and Dion turn their attention to Ty, the adorably clueless transfer student,
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played by the late, great Brittany Murphy.
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After Ty, who demonstrates that she's a little bit more experienced than Cher
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and Dion can even pick up on, develops a crush on Elton, played by the perennially
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creepy-eyed Jeremy Sisto,
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Cher and Dion give Ty a makeover to the Jill Sobule song, Supermodel.
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So, I have done some research on kind of the history of the makeover montage,
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which we can talk about a little later in the show.
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But I really want to unpack this scene and why this song is perfect for this scene.
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Well, Lane, as our guest. Yeah, please.
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I know, I'm like.
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No pressure.
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Was, so, correct me if I'm wrong, Jill Sabula's gay, right?
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I don't think she is. I think she sang a song about kissing a girl.
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She did, right.
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And then it was confused. She's not gay at all? I don't think she's gay. Hang on.
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Now I've got a little editor.
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You feel like she had to be able to define, that's such a gay icon, like iconic gay song?
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That was like, oh, she identifies as bisexual.
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I knew it! We can smell our own. Well, because what I was going to say was that
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song has such an innate queerness and weirdness to it.
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that for me, I think like she has such a uniqueness to her voice that I feel
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like artists like her don't usually get to hit the mainstream.
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Like they definitely had a bit more of an entry point in the nineties,
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but we don't see that that much anymore.
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So there's something really fun and kind of subversive about that song when
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it comes on that like, if, if it was anything else, if it was,
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you know, a Britney Spears song, I love her, but it would not have have hit the same way.
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So Lane, you're referencing Jill Sebul's I Kissed a Girl, which is not the Katy
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Perry I Kissed a Girl, which is just queerbaiting.
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So like our Meredith Brooks bitch episode, I had to be like, who sings that song?
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And it is Jill Sebul, not Lisa Loeb, not whoever else you might be thinking.
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And so that song also came out in 1995.
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And so she has two massive hits that are very different sounding in the same year.
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Yeah.
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Can I say, I have a weird memory of being in school, like maybe junior high or high school.
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And like our teacher played us the song, I Kissed a Girl by Jill Stubule. Yeah. I don't remember.
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Was she like, be gay at school?
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We found the one teacher that's like trying to turn the kids gay.
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No, I wish I'd had her. i was already i was right on the i did go.
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To like a really really progressive public school like.
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I'm real i'm realizing this.
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And in hindsight although i don't remember if.
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It's progressive for now let alone yeah it's progressive for now it's.
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Kind of like it's kind of like going back and watching old episodes of beverly
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hills 90210 and being like wow this is way more progressive than i feel like
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it should have been given how much time has gone by but then you've been very very regressive in.
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The last 25 years.
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Yeah yes and then you think about how much we've regressed and
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progressed but really a lot of regression in the last 25 yeah um but i mean
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i don't remember the uh the context or why but when the katie perry song came
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out um i remember like doesn't that already exist i know i've heard that song
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because it was before spotify where i could just like.
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Go and.
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Google it or whatever look it up and listen to it on command but i i have this
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memory of being in school and like listening to i kissed a girl not for any
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particular reason other than like.
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This is a good song a great song and without a doubt the superior i kissed a
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girl can't even hold a candle to it for so many reasons like even just as a
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song but anyway you know yeah i'm i'm not a i'm not a katie perry i kissed a girl no well.
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I mean i like we're not here to denigrate anybody's art but like if you look
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at like what the narrative when the point of view of each song is it's like.
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Very clear.
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That the katie perry i kissed a girl is like oh look at me i'm so sexy and i.
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Did this thing for male attention party right
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and you that's why it's like it's like i feel
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like i like to think that even now even
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in 2024 katie perry would be like that wasn't great because
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it's like and that's why like i'm not really
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one to like openly shit on somebody's work but i think
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that one felt really personal as a
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queer kid who like had this song that was
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called the same thing and was from a queer artist
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through a queer lens and to totally
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remove it and be this like really male gazey like i'm not gay though i'm not
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like one of those gays i hope my boyfriend doesn't mind it right no like i have
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no problem uh saying not a no no a huge no because Because it's one that just like,
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And it just, it ages like milk. Like as time goes on, you're just like,
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that song really sucked for so many reasons, you know?
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Just all those reasons. It's like, that was your foray? All right.
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The Jill song sounds like this like queer euphoria moment of like,
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you know, like this really excited
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journal entry of like, I got to be my authentic self for the first time.
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and i will just mildly defend
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katie perry kind of a little bit which
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is that you know it's it's a not huge secret that she started out as like a
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christian musician and so her like foray into this like queer baiting thing
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was like her taking her power back from like the weird christian christian okay
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so maybe she went the other.
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Direction still in this really male gazey i don't.
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Really yeah for sure it's.
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A powerful song the pendulum.
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The pendulum swung too far.
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It's swung too far because then you have this like it kind of invalidates queer
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identities like i don't know i you will never convince me that that's like a
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good song because it's that whole like oh i'm gay so that boys like it but i'm not.
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Like yeah right yeah.
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It has a rage to it there's like a homophobia within that.
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Song you.
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Can like yeah.
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Yeah and and there are plenty of other reasons that the song Aged Like Milk,
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one of which is that it's producer, Dr. Luke.
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And there's another reason. That's why I'm just like, we could like,
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that song is dripping with reasons to not love it. But especially when you put
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it, you know, pitted it up against Jill's song, which was so great.
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And the other thing about the Supermodel song too, is that,
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When you listen to it, like, you listen to the full thing, it's so subversive
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and it's so campy. Like, that's the other thing that's great about it.
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Like, there's literally a line in that song that's, like, she does,
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like, a spoken word part where she's, like, I didn't eat today and I didn't
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eat yesterday and I'm not going to eat tomorrow because I'm going to be a supermodel.
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And it's, like, no one was really talking about that.
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There was still this idea that, like, supermodels ate just like you.
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They just looked different. and it's like.
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Yeah it's just gene i'm just lucky rachel do you want to talk a little bit about that spoken word part.
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Yeah so that spoken word part was actually the only
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entry lyrically of jill so
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the song was written by um
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two davids uh david beerwald david katay brian mcleod and kristin veigard it
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was intended to sound especially teenage uh at uh one of the davids david beerwald
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He has talked before about how he like lifted lines from a letters to the editor in Sassy magazine,
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RIP Sassy and RIP Jane magazine to two publications too good for this world.
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But Sibule added her own spoken word part.
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And then there was like a whole, a whole, a whole mess, a whole legal mess about
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whether or not she should be credited as a songwriter on the song.
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We can get into that a little bit further down. But yeah, Sibule's, I didn't eat yesterday.
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I'm not going to eat today. I'm not going to eat tomorrow.
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It referenced her own past struggles with an eating disorder.
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So that was her being very personal in the moment.
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I'm literally so aghast that they're –.
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That it was like heavy.
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Co-write i'm really.
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Surprised but.
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You know what like she brought so much of herself to it like you could have
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given this to like any other pop star at the time and it would not have hit the same.
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Yeah ultimately she did not end up receiving a writing credit she said she said
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about that i um i wish that i would have been more proactive and talked to the
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writers directly i felt so overwhelmed at the time and remember thinking well
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they must know better. I didn't want to be trouble.
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Oh, Jill.
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That's such a thing.
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But she left her stamp.
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You hit the nail on the head, Lane, that like Jill's point of view is this kind
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of undercutting of the if it were a different pop star, it would be taken almost literally.
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And in this version, she has this like tongue-in-cheek especially with the addition of that,
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spoken word part this tongue-in-cheek like aren't i great uh it's like the sydney
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sweeney from euphoria i've never been happier uh with her eyes full of tears.
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Yeah and it's also just like
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you can hear i think the other thing to me that always stands out is like something
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about her performance is like she knows she's never ever going to be that no
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matter what she does You can hear that in the song,
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and I think that's what makes it so relatable, and that really gives it that
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kind of pathos, because it's like this sort of, somebody who's such an outsider,
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they're never going to fit in, but they still really want to,
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and they know they're not going to, and it's like probably fine.
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There's like, I hear all those layers when I hear it.
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I think that has a lot to do with the arrangement, too, because the supermodel
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is like this kind of rock-forward, punk-forward song, which sounds very different to I Kissed a Girl.
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And that, I think, exposes the kind of the chasm between what she's saying,
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what she's singing versus like the actual life of a supermodel. Right.
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Is like if this was kind of a twinkly piano driven song, it would not have the
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same like bite or anger or subversion to it.
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Do you think that in the scene itself, that it's being that supermodel is because
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I mean, I view the song as being kind of a push pull, a creative push pull between its its writers,
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the like the first three or four writers.
00:16:36.398 --> 00:16:44.698
I mentioned Encibul herself and ultimately the movie's music supervisor, Karen Rackman.
00:16:44.698 --> 00:16:49.678
I think you're right. And I think that that there is like a history of interesting
00:16:49.678 --> 00:16:54.198
placements of like earnest songs that in placements become satirical.
00:16:54.258 --> 00:16:59.538
I'm thinking of like there's a scene in Face Off where Nicolas Cage like shoots
00:16:59.538 --> 00:17:02.358
up a whole den of bad guys.
00:17:02.478 --> 00:17:05.038
And there's you're listening to like Somewhere Over the Rainbow.
00:17:05.278 --> 00:17:10.778
And so that's like an earnest song used in context to create this the satire.
00:17:10.778 --> 00:17:12.438
And I think you're right.
00:17:12.478 --> 00:17:18.258
There is a push-pull, but I ultimately come down on the side that the film and
00:17:18.258 --> 00:17:25.158
that the music supervisor have it right and that the song and the scene are
00:17:25.158 --> 00:17:29.878
not necessarily supposed to be taken on face value that being made over and
00:17:29.878 --> 00:17:31.898
being a supermodel is super great.
00:17:32.678 --> 00:17:32.718
Yeah.
00:17:32.718 --> 00:17:36.578
The line that really does it for me is the way she says, wait and see.
00:17:37.178 --> 00:17:41.818
And I don't know why. It's not a particularly angry delivery,
00:17:41.998 --> 00:17:47.218
but just the way it comes in in the song, everyone will want to dress like me, wait and see.
00:17:47.718 --> 00:17:50.698
I'm like, oh no, you're in on the joke.
00:17:51.098 --> 00:17:57.798
Right. I think that's part of what I mean, too, where it's like,
00:17:57.798 --> 00:17:59.078
she knows she's not going to be that.
00:17:59.138 --> 00:18:02.358
She doesn't really want to be in it. that's part of the that's being in on the
00:18:02.358 --> 00:18:05.798
joke where it's like i want to be this this would be cool it's never gonna happen
00:18:05.798 --> 00:18:09.858
and i don't even know if i want it to happen but it'd be fun to imagine it i
00:18:09.858 --> 00:18:11.598
think that's really what it is yeah.
00:18:11.598 --> 00:18:18.158
She she told of refinery 29 that like she was like i would have been the weird
00:18:18.158 --> 00:18:21.258
goth girl so i think that she's kind of like she's writing it from that,
00:18:22.378 --> 00:18:23.778
perspective interestingly she
00:18:23.778 --> 00:18:28.278
was 34 at the time when she contributed her part and before yeah yeah i.
00:18:28.278 --> 00:18:31.058
Was just gonna say that so i i i keep looking
00:18:31.058 --> 00:18:33.738
down because i was curious and so i was like
00:18:33.738 --> 00:18:36.778
looking up some of the songwriting facts and i think that that's
00:18:36.778 --> 00:18:41.238
was the next thing i was going to bring up i because what it reminds me of too
00:18:41.238 --> 00:18:45.238
i think it's cool that she was in her 30s for this because what it also reminds
00:18:45.238 --> 00:18:50.538
me of now that i think about it is liz fair's why can't i where it's like kind
00:18:50.538 --> 00:18:56.578
of this adult woman mimicking the feelings of a teenager because any age and have Mm-hmm.
00:18:59.169 --> 00:19:03.809
We're so angry, like critics, we're so angry at Liz Phair for writing this song,
00:19:03.829 --> 00:19:08.009
even though like men are allowed to write about way more denial feelings.
00:19:08.449 --> 00:19:10.349
Stolen valor for teenage girls.
00:19:10.969 --> 00:19:15.089
The same, I mean, first of all, why can't I, perfect song, perfect pop song.
00:19:15.089 --> 00:19:17.789
Perfect song, great song. I love that song. But I remember people were like, ugh, ugh.
00:19:18.029 --> 00:19:19.009
But I feel like.
00:19:19.029 --> 00:19:21.389
Does she have a crush after the 1816?
00:19:22.809 --> 00:19:25.549
No you're you're so right and i also i i feel like
00:19:25.549 --> 00:19:29.129
that that exact um energy that
00:19:29.129 --> 00:19:32.189
pushes back against adult women having
00:19:32.189 --> 00:19:36.029
feelings about their just feelings
00:19:36.029 --> 00:19:40.529
that you might typically associate with teenage with your teenage years like
00:19:40.529 --> 00:19:46.709
that connects to like every now and then i'll see some tweets about like a friend
00:19:46.709 --> 00:19:52.609
of my 30s loving something that olivia rodrigo did and just like almost apologizing for it i.
00:19:52.609 --> 00:19:54.449
Love everything that olivia rodrigo does.
00:19:54.449 --> 00:19:57.589
And like almost having to like i don't
00:19:57.589 --> 00:20:00.469
know position herself in like a certain way like i
00:20:00.469 --> 00:20:05.929
know this is weird because i'm in my 30s but um i like i don't know like like
00:20:05.929 --> 00:20:12.309
there's like a tension around women are our age if i can speak broadly in like
00:20:12.309 --> 00:20:17.209
loving songs written by like a late teen early 20 something and because it like
00:20:17.209 --> 00:20:19.889
brings back those feelings that never actually go away And.
00:20:19.889 --> 00:20:27.289
As the like resident dude on this episode, it is like when men grow up,
00:20:27.289 --> 00:20:32.209
their infantile behavior is still rewarded, right?
00:20:32.309 --> 00:20:35.549
That's why we have all these superhero movies, comic book movies,
00:20:35.809 --> 00:20:39.689
video games, all this stuff that like, while I, you know, I'm,
00:20:39.689 --> 00:20:41.529
I think that these things can be underrated.
00:20:42.195 --> 00:20:45.295
quote-unquote actual art they started out as child's
00:20:45.295 --> 00:20:51.715
entertainment and as men grew up in into these halls of power they got to like
00:20:51.715 --> 00:20:57.215
remake the childish things in their in their to fit their adulthood and like
00:20:57.215 --> 00:20:59.755
we still kind of pish posh women
00:20:59.755 --> 00:21:03.915
like no one no one is more derided in pop culture than like teenage girls.
00:21:03.915 --> 00:21:08.755
Well and it's you think about you know that's like the whole man boy thing but
00:21:08.755 --> 00:21:15.075
like no one wants to be a woman girl or whatever version of man boy that would
00:21:15.075 --> 00:21:17.975
be partly because of the way it sounds i.
00:21:17.975 --> 00:21:19.015
Want to be a woman girl.
00:21:19.015 --> 00:21:21.975
I am i am a woman girl not a girl,
00:21:22.555 --> 00:21:25.795
not yet a woman but it's like but
00:21:25.795 --> 00:21:28.515
but it's that kind of thing where it's like we're supposed to think
00:21:28.515 --> 00:21:31.335
these things are adorable in men like oh my god
00:21:31.335 --> 00:21:34.835
he's like in his 40s he's playing with like like toys and
00:21:34.835 --> 00:21:38.035
like he loves action figures and you know it's like there certainly
00:21:38.035 --> 00:21:42.555
are people who critique that but you don't hear men who are like ashamed to
00:21:42.555 --> 00:21:46.335
talk about it or who are like i know this is like they're like guess what i
00:21:46.335 --> 00:21:50.895
just bought on ebay right they're like oh i love it i've just bought more you
00:21:50.895 --> 00:21:57.295
know video games that 13 year olds play but like the answer by the way is weird about it why the.
00:21:57.295 --> 00:22:02.375
Answer by the way is not to make more people feel weird about it the answers
00:22:02.375 --> 00:22:05.975
to like make it okay for everyone to do like just like.
00:22:05.975 --> 00:22:06.535
Let people.
00:22:06.535 --> 00:22:07.775
Live and enjoy things.
00:22:08.906 --> 00:22:12.606
And equally, equally cool and silly.
00:22:12.926 --> 00:22:17.886
Like it shouldn't be cooler to do this or like it's like less cool for women,
00:22:17.946 --> 00:22:19.126
but I guess we'll allow it.
00:22:19.166 --> 00:22:22.106
Like that's not really a quality, you know.
00:22:22.346 --> 00:22:26.286
A little bit more about Clueless. Clueless is one of those classic comedies
00:22:26.286 --> 00:22:30.186
that gets even more classic when you know all the elements that went into creating it.
00:22:30.266 --> 00:22:34.046
It basically is genre defining for someone my age.
00:22:34.186 --> 00:22:36.926
I'm 38. amy heckerling the director of fast
00:22:36.926 --> 00:22:40.086
times at ridgemont high national lampoon's european vacation and
00:22:40.086 --> 00:22:43.006
the first two look who's talking movies was in
00:22:43.006 --> 00:22:48.306
talks with fox to make a tv series fast times which was penned by cameron crowe
00:22:48.306 --> 00:22:53.326
was extremely culturally relevant and it gave us its own seminal on-screen needle
00:22:53.326 --> 00:22:58.166
drops so heckerling was fox's choice to like capture lightning in a bottle a
00:22:58.166 --> 00:23:02.086
second time amy heckerling said that 20th century fox quote Quote,
00:23:02.086 --> 00:23:06.166
wanted a show about teenagers, but not nerds.
00:23:06.166 --> 00:23:08.386
They wanted it to be about the cool kids.
00:23:09.246 --> 00:23:12.406
How bold, Fox. How brave.
00:23:12.446 --> 00:23:18.066
For once, for once, we've given a nerd too much attention. Talk about the hots. Yeah.
00:23:18.206 --> 00:23:23.106
So this is Amy's quote. So I thought I'm going to write a character who's positive
00:23:23.106 --> 00:23:28.966
and happy because she was looking back on her character of Jeff Spicoli from
00:23:28.966 --> 00:23:31.946
Fast Times at Ridgemont High, who is positive.
00:23:31.966 --> 00:23:33.986
but not happy or happy but not positive.
00:23:34.186 --> 00:23:36.506
And so there was Cher Horowitz.
00:23:36.726 --> 00:23:42.786
She said that she read Jane Austen's novel Emma in college and loving the title
00:23:42.786 --> 00:23:47.146
character's positivity, decided to write a script around an Emma-like character,
00:23:47.406 --> 00:23:52.606
saying, I started to think, what's the larger context for this kind of nothing
00:23:52.606 --> 00:23:55.966
can go wrong, always looking through rose-colored glasses kind of girl?
00:23:56.046 --> 00:23:59.146
So I tried to take all the things that were positive,
00:23:59.647 --> 00:24:02.427
in this sort of pretty 1800s world and see what
00:24:02.427 --> 00:24:06.147
that would be like if it was in beverly hills and famously
00:24:06.147 --> 00:24:09.367
for research on the script she sat in on classes at
00:24:09.367 --> 00:24:12.607
beverly hills high school to get a feeling for the students and she
00:24:12.607 --> 00:24:17.667
said quote one thing i observed what that was these girls in a constant state
00:24:17.667 --> 00:24:22.787
of grooming so we're having a huge cultural conversation about grooming but
00:24:22.787 --> 00:24:27.047
i think this quote she's referring to like literal grooming like a cat like
00:24:27.047 --> 00:24:30.807
these girls are constantly like Like preening in the mirror and grooming themselves.
00:24:31.487 --> 00:24:35.667
So the finished script was originally called No Worries. And it contained all
00:24:35.667 --> 00:24:38.367
the main characters that would end up in the Clueless film.
00:24:38.807 --> 00:24:47.107
But Fox didn't get it. One of Heckerling's friends named Twink Kaplan said it
00:24:47.107 --> 00:24:47.867
was obvious. Great name.
00:24:48.167 --> 00:24:52.447
Right. It was obvious they didn't get it. They thought that the script needed more boys in it.
00:24:52.567 --> 00:24:56.527
They were afraid that if it focused on girls, we wouldn't get any guys to see
00:24:56.527 --> 00:25:00.527
it. right so popular boys popular and boys yeah.
00:25:00.527 --> 00:25:05.347
Oh god that's like i never want to be that just.
00:25:05.347 --> 00:25:06.647
About popular boys,
00:25:08.787 --> 00:25:14.307
so um just becomes euphoria it went into this thing called turnaround which
00:25:14.307 --> 00:25:19.167
is essentially where fox is like sitting on it until the rights lapse and basically
00:25:19.167 --> 00:25:24.847
it's like dead but six months later The script found its way to producer Scott Rudin, who,
00:25:24.927 --> 00:25:28.567
despite being a famous Hollywood monster, gave it his stamp of approval.
00:25:28.827 --> 00:25:35.407
And Rudin's support led to a bidding war between studios and Paramount Pictures eventually won.
00:25:35.687 --> 00:25:43.327
Paramount owns, no, sorry, Viacom owns MTV, but I believe it was like a MTV-Paramount co-production.
00:25:43.667 --> 00:25:48.287
But fun fact, the movie Clueless was shot by Bill Pope, who shot all the Matrix movies.
00:25:49.427 --> 00:25:50.507
That's called Range.
00:25:51.167 --> 00:25:56.947
That's called range. He shot Army of Darkness in 1992 and then Fast Times in
00:25:56.947 --> 00:25:58.867
95 and then all the Matrix movies.
00:25:59.067 --> 00:26:01.587
But he's like one of the great cinematographers working.
00:26:01.827 --> 00:26:06.407
He's still working. Much like Fast Times, Clueless defined a generation and
00:26:06.407 --> 00:26:08.867
gave young millennials, before they were called millennials,
00:26:09.147 --> 00:26:12.347
a bevy of slang to incorporate into their lives.
00:26:12.487 --> 00:26:16.107
So Lane, Rachel, now's the time to admit it.
00:26:16.287 --> 00:26:22.547
Did you do Clueless slang as like, A young adolescent.
00:26:23.027 --> 00:26:26.447
I'm sure that I said as if once or twice.
00:26:26.467 --> 00:26:28.587
Or like loser, like one of these.
00:26:29.147 --> 00:26:33.427
I don't think I ever... Well, no, I didn't really do like the loser hand because...
00:26:34.771 --> 00:26:37.211
I was not in the position to be giving.
00:26:37.291 --> 00:26:38.931
Like, to be calling people losers.
00:26:39.111 --> 00:26:43.111
I was like some, I was not popular. And I was also not like at the very bottom,
00:26:43.151 --> 00:26:46.431
but I was like, definitely not cool enough.
00:26:46.451 --> 00:26:51.911
And in any sense that I would be giving like a loser hand to someone else.
00:26:52.691 --> 00:26:53.131
Yeah.
00:26:53.251 --> 00:26:54.211
I usually be framed.
00:26:54.211 --> 00:26:56.351
I could tell you were a bully. I can tell.
00:26:57.111 --> 00:26:59.091
No, you're kidding, right?
00:26:59.231 --> 00:27:00.811
I am kidding. Oh, okay.
00:27:00.871 --> 00:27:04.091
I was like, I don't think I've ever seen somebody read me so wrong,
00:27:04.191 --> 00:27:07.851
but you know, You know, people like Tina Fey and like, she's like, I was a bully.
00:27:07.951 --> 00:27:10.831
And it's like, yeah, but yeah, no, I've never been read that way.
00:27:10.891 --> 00:27:14.391
I was really like worried for a second. That just shows you a little out of
00:27:14.391 --> 00:27:17.931
it that I'm like susceptible enough to very clear sarcasm.
00:27:18.791 --> 00:27:23.171
But yeah, I never used any of that. I never used any of it.
00:27:23.751 --> 00:27:28.771
Maybe I just thought that since I wasn't in Beverly Hills. Sure.
00:27:29.751 --> 00:27:32.431
Yeah, it was kind of like slang turned all the way up to 11,
00:27:32.611 --> 00:27:36.311
which probably wasn't real life i don't know that.
00:27:36.311 --> 00:27:39.071
Any did anybody was anybody actually i.
00:27:39.071 --> 00:27:44.311
Saw some kids like do the whatever sign with their hands or like whatever i
00:27:44.311 --> 00:27:50.631
mean so like like these all the slang is so just like jam-packed into one hour
00:27:50.631 --> 00:27:52.591
and a half experience and in
00:27:52.591 --> 00:27:57.051
real life i heard it like cherry picked here and there but i was also like.
00:27:58.291 --> 00:28:04.151
Nine yeah and i have to think that this popularized whatever in a way that we
00:28:04.151 --> 00:28:08.751
still are are using it today like i can't think of something they said.
00:28:08.751 --> 00:28:10.291
It though that nobody says it.
00:28:10.291 --> 00:28:10.671
Like that.
00:28:10.671 --> 00:28:16.031
Maybe we should bring it backwards like whatever that's not how anyone ever says it maybe.
00:28:16.031 --> 00:28:17.451
They were in california.
00:28:17.451 --> 00:28:24.251
Sure and the film valley girl from the 80s is is uh pointed to as as the thing
00:28:24.251 --> 00:28:26.791
that gave us like popularize the Valley girl accent.
00:28:26.871 --> 00:28:32.591
But I think that this like really wove it into our, to our culture in a way
00:28:32.591 --> 00:28:36.511
that, you know, I missed with Valley girl. Cause I was a little too young.
00:28:36.671 --> 00:28:41.711
This like, this was like the, the, the, the booster shot that really made Valley.
00:28:41.711 --> 00:28:42.771
Girl really good.
00:28:43.391 --> 00:28:45.071
It's okay. Yeah.
00:28:45.091 --> 00:28:45.231
Okay.
00:28:45.351 --> 00:28:47.451
It's not clueless. It's on my list.
00:28:55.351 --> 00:28:58.631
But I don't know I don't know about other people but for me
00:28:58.631 --> 00:29:02.051
the most alluring thing was
00:29:02.051 --> 00:29:04.711
not the slang it was the clothes yeah that's what
00:29:04.711 --> 00:29:09.131
I wanted I didn't want to use it didn't I don't know well I don't know if if
00:29:09.131 --> 00:29:12.071
I wanted to use the words or whatever but I just wanted the fucking clothes
00:29:12.071 --> 00:29:16.871
man I wanted the closet and I was right I wanted somebody to give me that makeover
00:29:16.871 --> 00:29:21.811
and give me not necessarily those clothes because she doesn't have my favorite
00:29:21.811 --> 00:29:24.651
outfits of the you know She's got good ones,
00:29:24.831 --> 00:29:30.971
but it's like you watch that movie and it's like hers isn't the main closet that you want.
00:29:31.271 --> 00:29:34.391
Whose closet did you want from that movie?
00:29:34.611 --> 00:29:40.191
I mean Cher's closet. And then really in many ways, there was like a yin-yang
00:29:40.191 --> 00:29:43.791
kind of happening with Dion's closet too, where it was just like different shades,
00:29:43.911 --> 00:29:46.411
different colors. So really theirs.
00:29:47.891 --> 00:29:49.691
Because I think there was something...
00:29:50.781 --> 00:29:54.281
It depended what it was. There were some of Brittany Murphy's outfits that were
00:29:54.281 --> 00:29:59.281
cute, but some of them were a little too preppy somehow. And I didn't like them.
00:29:59.541 --> 00:30:03.401
What's up, daddy? What the hell is that? A dress. Says who?
00:30:03.781 --> 00:30:09.781
Calvin Klein. It looks like underwear. Go upstairs and put something over it. I was just going to.
00:30:10.021 --> 00:30:15.781
Yeah, I felt like hers kind of like went a bit girlish at times, like young girlish.
00:30:15.841 --> 00:30:20.121
Like there's this one scene where she is wearing, I think it's the Mighty Mighty
00:30:20.121 --> 00:30:23.081
Boss Stone scene when they're all on the show with seeing a fan.
00:30:23.081 --> 00:30:24.481
Where Josh is jumping up and down.
00:30:24.561 --> 00:30:33.201
Brittany Murphy can't figure out how to wear her button-down top with her overalls.
00:30:33.201 --> 00:30:40.981
I wore overalls as a kid, but since then, since developing, I hated overalls after that.
00:30:41.081 --> 00:30:44.521
I still don't know how to wear overalls, even though I have worn them here and there.
00:30:44.681 --> 00:30:47.741
I just feel like a little baby.
00:30:48.121 --> 00:30:52.081
So I think that this is totally intentional, though. Like, obviously,
00:30:52.301 --> 00:30:58.261
like, the costumes are curated and have been called back to in pop culture since then.
00:30:58.461 --> 00:31:02.881
Ariana Grande did a video. Was it Ariana Grande or Iggy Azalea? Or someone did a video.
00:31:02.961 --> 00:31:08.881
Yeah, it was Iggy Azalea and Charlie XBX in 2015. I remember that moment. Yeah, I was there.
00:31:09.181 --> 00:31:13.481
And there was, like, a fashion line in 2018 that, like, called back to Clueless.
00:31:13.481 --> 00:31:18.841
But I want you to hold on to this, like, tie being infantilized thing,
00:31:18.941 --> 00:31:21.981
because I think that is, like, that perfectly leads me into,
00:31:22.081 --> 00:31:24.441
like, my next thing that I wanted to discuss.
00:31:24.621 --> 00:31:30.021
By the way, Valley Girl was directed by Martha Coolidge, who also directed Material
00:31:30.021 --> 00:31:31.721
Girls with Brittany Murphy.
00:31:32.901 --> 00:31:34.221
Oh, which I also haven't seen.
00:31:34.561 --> 00:31:37.021
Oh, it's good. Brittany Murphy, Dakota Fanning.
00:31:37.341 --> 00:31:38.061
It's good.
00:31:38.401 --> 00:31:39.621
Yeah, I have seen it.
00:31:39.621 --> 00:31:43.601
It's she's in a couple of those movies where and it's like so tempting to watch her,
00:31:44.221 --> 00:31:47.221
but you're not and whatever we'll
00:31:47.221 --> 00:31:50.361
move on but there's some movies like that where it's like you're not getting
00:31:50.361 --> 00:31:54.761
britney murphy murphy realness you're getting this like version of her she felt
00:31:54.761 --> 00:31:58.501
like she had to be by hollywood and i remember even as a kid being like i don't
00:31:58.501 --> 00:32:05.481
want that's not what i want i want weird you yeah i want everything you are that they don't like our.
00:32:05.481 --> 00:32:08.321
Generation has has always been really good at figuring, like,
00:32:08.321 --> 00:32:12.961
like trying to, being able to see through artifice in a way that like,
00:32:13.041 --> 00:32:18.181
you know, maybe it was taught to us by generation X, but this brings me to,
00:32:19.619 --> 00:32:24.439
The history of the makeover montage. There's this book called Before and After
00:32:24.439 --> 00:32:28.059
the Makeover in Film and Culture by Angela Claire Dance.
00:32:28.399 --> 00:32:31.639
This was actually her doctoral thesis at The Ohio State University.
00:32:31.979 --> 00:32:36.779
In the book, Dance traces the history and lineage of the makeover in pop culture,
00:32:36.919 --> 00:32:40.979
exploring not just film works, but television, like reality television and magazines,
00:32:41.319 --> 00:32:44.179
the latter of which was used primarily to sell cosmetics.
00:32:44.679 --> 00:32:48.499
So to boil this whole book down to a quick blurb is tough, but here's the quick
00:32:48.499 --> 00:32:54.019
history. According to Vincent Vinakis, the new acceptance of cosmetic use in
00:32:54.019 --> 00:32:56.959
the 1920s was due to a crisis of gender politics.
00:32:57.339 --> 00:33:02.519
So cosmetics were a means of emphasizing the sexual difference in women and
00:33:02.519 --> 00:33:06.739
men in a time of anxiety surrounding women's changing roles in society.
00:33:06.979 --> 00:33:10.899
This is what he argues. Quote, the widespread reintroduction and acceptance
00:33:10.899 --> 00:33:14.979
of cosmetics in the first decades of the 20th century was a noticeable revision
00:33:14.979 --> 00:33:17.899
in the schedule for the depiction of the female.
00:33:18.019 --> 00:33:22.999
This innovation can be interpreted as a ritual of feminization and the timing
00:33:22.999 --> 00:33:25.279
of its appearance reveals its meaning.
00:33:25.559 --> 00:33:30.939
So plenty of other authors, including Dance, also argue that this codification
00:33:30.939 --> 00:33:34.919
of feminine beauty standards was also used to hold up like the white beauty
00:33:34.919 --> 00:33:36.459
standards in the black community.
00:33:36.459 --> 00:33:41.159
and at times rob black women of their culture to homogenize the look of all
00:33:41.159 --> 00:33:43.679
women in line with the ideal white woman.
00:33:43.779 --> 00:33:47.619
And this becomes important and clueless as we look at the character of Dion,
00:33:47.839 --> 00:33:56.679
who falls completely into the white beauty standard that Cher is the model for
00:33:56.679 --> 00:34:02.739
and weirdly mirrors Stacey Dash's real personality.
00:34:03.192 --> 00:34:07.692
Person arc where she's like a fox news contributor she's like completely been
00:34:07.692 --> 00:34:15.532
red pilled by oh sure so the american of sorts yeah okay but i see that's.
00:34:15.532 --> 00:34:19.712
A really it's a really interesting reading of it and um i'm i'm gonna think about that.
00:34:19.712 --> 00:34:23.032
Yeah i'm not saying that it was like clueless's fault but this
00:34:23.032 --> 00:34:27.892
is like part of her trajectory and we can use this to dissect ty's makeover
00:34:27.892 --> 00:34:32.032
in the larger story of clueless so okay let's fast forward the beauty industry
00:34:32.032 --> 00:34:35.392
street codified what's attracted to women now pop culture can reinforce that
00:34:35.392 --> 00:34:41.512
we get movies like pygmalion 1937 and dance references a betty davis movie that
00:34:41.512 --> 00:34:42.812
i've never heard of from 1942,
00:34:43.432 --> 00:34:48.492
called now voyager which sounds like a sci-fi movie but it's a romance it also sounds.
00:34:48.492 --> 00:34:50.452
Like an early 2010s indie band.
00:34:50.452 --> 00:34:53.512
Yeah right now voyager.
00:34:53.512 --> 00:34:55.212
Is opening for freelance wales.
00:34:55.212 --> 00:34:57.632
Yeah Yeah, at Death by Audio.
00:34:57.832 --> 00:35:00.332
I'm going to go see The Shins of Now Voyager. Yeah.
00:35:00.752 --> 00:35:08.052
This is like a romance movie where Bette Davis goes from like geek to chic. And then...
00:35:08.052 --> 00:35:09.692
Oh, wow, we love it. They always do.
00:35:10.052 --> 00:35:11.612
They've never been able to do anything else.
00:35:11.612 --> 00:35:12.052
It's always chic.
00:35:12.372 --> 00:35:17.192
And then we get the fairy godmother of all makeover montages, Cinderella.
00:35:18.152 --> 00:35:22.612
So literal magic is employed in creating this beautiful woman out of like a
00:35:22.612 --> 00:35:25.192
mousy servant. This is Aviv talking again, by the way.
00:35:25.612 --> 00:35:32.772
This added an important element to the makeover montage, which was music, right?
00:35:32.872 --> 00:35:36.852
All it takes is a bibbidi-bobbidi-boo and all your beauty dreams can come true.
00:35:37.052 --> 00:35:42.052
I'm not going to go through every makeover montage between 1950 and Clueless in 1995.
00:35:43.892 --> 00:35:48.552
But because we'll probably explore some in other episodes, save for I want to
00:35:48.552 --> 00:35:53.852
mention one that jump-started the craze in the 1990s, which was Pretty Woman.
00:35:54.582 --> 00:36:00.902
So the movie's title track plays over the street ragamuffin played by Julia
00:36:00.902 --> 00:36:03.682
Roberts as she goes on a shopping spree on Rodeo Drive.
00:36:04.142 --> 00:36:08.662
And this movie moment was so influential that it inspired Touchstone Pictures,
00:36:08.822 --> 00:36:13.222
which is Disney, to change the name of the film from 3000, which was the name
00:36:13.222 --> 00:36:16.822
of the script, and the dollar amount that Richard Gere pays Julia Roberts for
00:36:16.822 --> 00:36:21.542
a week of her company, to Pretty Woman, the name of the song. Such a horrible title.
00:36:21.742 --> 00:36:22.202
By the way.
00:36:22.302 --> 00:36:23.822
3000? 3000 it's.
00:36:23.822 --> 00:36:26.102
My favorite movie like said no one.
00:36:26.102 --> 00:36:27.742
So that sounds.
00:36:27.742 --> 00:36:30.322
Again that sounds like a um another sci-fi movie.
00:36:30.322 --> 00:36:34.122
Another sci-fi movie so yeah right so 3000 the
00:36:34.122 --> 00:36:37.402
script for 3000 is famous in screenwriting books um
00:36:37.402 --> 00:36:40.402
it's like broken down in a bunch of famous screenwriting books and
00:36:40.402 --> 00:36:43.202
the original ending was like very dark and once
00:36:43.202 --> 00:36:46.182
touchstone pictures got got a hold of it they're like no
00:36:46.182 --> 00:36:49.562
they should end up together call it pretty woman but okay
00:36:49.562 --> 00:36:53.542
90s everything's fine yeah consumerism baby
00:36:53.542 --> 00:36:56.562
yeah and it shows
00:36:56.562 --> 00:36:59.482
up in countless films of the 90s and
00:36:59.482 --> 00:37:02.582
2000s but dance makes an interesting
00:37:02.582 --> 00:37:05.602
distinction between makeovers in magazines and on
00:37:05.602 --> 00:37:08.662
reality tv and those in movies so this
00:37:08.662 --> 00:37:13.102
is her quote unlike the makeover in reality television and in women's magazines
00:37:13.102 --> 00:37:17.502
where ordinary people are improved through changes in their appearance the makeover
00:37:17.502 --> 00:37:22.702
in film presents us with an actress with actresses who are essentially disguised
00:37:22.702 --> 00:37:26.542
through costuming and cosmetic effects as those ordinary people,
00:37:26.702 --> 00:37:29.462
and not just ordinary, but unattractive, even ugly.
00:37:29.662 --> 00:37:33.582
And when an actress playing the part of an unattractive woman receives a makeover,
00:37:33.762 --> 00:37:38.942
it becomes simply a reinstatement of her already recognized glamour and celebrity persona.
00:37:39.902 --> 00:37:44.542
Because of this, Dance argues the makeover in film ultimately represents a contradictory
00:37:44.542 --> 00:37:48.602
ideology where it asserts that with a little bit of makeup and the right haircut,
00:37:48.742 --> 00:37:51.802
anybody can be sexually competitive and climb the social ladder.
00:37:51.942 --> 00:37:56.942
But the makeover simultaneously reinforces the very strict ideals of physical
00:37:56.942 --> 00:37:59.602
beauty as embodied by a female movie star.
00:37:59.722 --> 00:38:03.562
In other words, the makeover is egalitarian and at the same time elitist,
00:38:03.582 --> 00:38:07.782
presenting unrealistic standards of appearance somehow attainable by anyone.
00:38:08.789 --> 00:38:09.249
Right.
00:38:09.349 --> 00:38:12.569
They're always still very thin. They're still very white. They're still checking
00:38:12.569 --> 00:38:15.289
off these boxes where it's really easy.
00:38:15.369 --> 00:38:20.069
Whereas like, you know, if it was the average person in order to fit these very
00:38:20.069 --> 00:38:24.509
narrow beauty ideals, they're going to have to change their weight, their body, their race.
00:38:24.649 --> 00:38:25.109
Their body.
00:38:26.049 --> 00:38:31.529
No acne. Hell no. Like there's all these steps like nobody could go from geek to chic.
00:38:31.609 --> 00:38:36.809
And most people couldn't go from geek to chic as this definition of chic is
00:38:36.809 --> 00:38:39.409
in 20 minutes. it'd be like six months
00:38:39.409 --> 00:38:44.089
like electrolysis like all these it couldn't be a 20 minute thing and.
00:38:44.089 --> 00:38:47.509
Dance goes into a lot about plastic surgery and how this is like the inevitable
00:38:47.509 --> 00:38:51.329
conclusion of what we're putting on television and in movies.
00:38:51.329 --> 00:38:52.529
Yeah lane.
00:38:52.529 --> 00:38:55.309
Do me a favor take off your glasses i.
00:38:55.309 --> 00:39:01.829
Mean put your hair down oh my god you're so ridiculous why it's not going to do anything thing i.
00:39:01.829 --> 00:39:02.989
Never noticed how beautiful.
00:39:02.989 --> 00:39:09.089
Your eyes are a whole different person and i know i mean whatever i don't know
00:39:09.089 --> 00:39:14.549
it's like 12 minutes of shame whenever they take off their glasses what what
00:39:14.549 --> 00:39:20.209
are you what are you doing i feel so stupid right bump into something yeah speaking.
00:39:20.209 --> 00:39:25.829
Of carrie russell again so i'm doing a little felicity rewatch currently because
00:39:25.829 --> 00:39:31.009
because Because there's a new podcast out about Felicity specifically called Dear Felicity.
00:39:31.229 --> 00:39:36.709
And then they like, but like some of my favorite, like she doesn't get a makeover
00:39:36.709 --> 00:39:39.189
at any point, but they have to.
00:39:39.209 --> 00:39:39.749
Just cut her hair.
00:39:39.989 --> 00:39:43.809
Instead of, well, yeah, but instead of putting her in glasses,
00:39:43.869 --> 00:39:47.929
you know, Keri Russell is so beautiful and undeniably so.
00:39:47.929 --> 00:39:54.989
So they found ways early on in the series to make her seem almost like asexual,
00:39:54.989 --> 00:39:57.269
putting her in these ginormous sweaters.
00:39:57.969 --> 00:40:00.909
And even she in this podcast talks about,
00:40:01.543 --> 00:40:07.783
how she looks back and is like wow my character is so asexual and i mean i think
00:40:07.783 --> 00:40:11.283
that they they kind of succeed and like because she's like her character they
00:40:11.283 --> 00:40:14.303
kind of weave it into the character because she's like she's beautiful and she
00:40:14.303 --> 00:40:17.323
doesn't know it um and she's always like wearing these sweaters.
00:40:17.323 --> 00:40:19.363
Beautiful but doesn't know it yep.
00:40:19.363 --> 00:40:21.723
Yeah she falls into the beautiful but doesn't know it category.
00:40:21.723 --> 00:40:26.743
That's the ideal that's the female ideal but she's made it to 25 and nobody's
00:40:26.743 --> 00:40:30.363
ever told her she was pretty and she's never received any kind of benefits.
00:40:30.363 --> 00:40:32.683
An untapped resource yeah.
00:40:32.683 --> 00:40:36.383
That they control and manipulate that's really what it is.
00:40:36.383 --> 00:40:39.243
I teach screenwriting as a day job as a
00:40:39.243 --> 00:40:42.643
job job and um that's like one of the big no-nos is
00:40:42.643 --> 00:40:45.443
when someone describes how attractive someone is
00:40:45.443 --> 00:40:48.563
not even doesn't know it just like how hot
00:40:48.563 --> 00:40:51.323
like no one is we don't put ugly people in
00:40:51.323 --> 00:40:54.463
the movies you don't have to say that they're ugly or
00:40:54.463 --> 00:40:58.903
not ugly uh hot or not hot and like think about it do we ever truly believe
00:40:58.903 --> 00:41:04.643
that julia roberts or britney murphy or betty davis or anne hathaway twice for
00:41:04.643 --> 00:41:10.663
that matter is ugly like no we are constantly waiting for the moment they take
00:41:10.663 --> 00:41:13.643
off the glasses and they put their ponytail down and it's.
00:41:13.643 --> 00:41:17.103
Very that's very true but i will say at At the same time,
00:41:17.183 --> 00:41:24.343
I think one of the reasons that that that Brittany Murphy's character tie works
00:41:24.343 --> 00:41:30.163
so well in this is I think maybe this is one of the only or one of very few
00:41:30.163 --> 00:41:34.783
where like you absolutely can see that because she doesn't fit into Hollywood.
00:41:34.883 --> 00:41:39.163
Every other person that you just named totally fits into the Hollywood archetype.
00:41:39.163 --> 00:41:41.023
No, no alterations needed.
00:41:41.323 --> 00:41:46.003
She really didn't both on screen and off. So it really was like taking this
00:41:46.003 --> 00:41:50.723
alt girl and making her pretty, but not an alt girl in the way that we've seen
00:41:50.723 --> 00:41:55.303
where it's like, yeah, she just has to take off her glasses or her flattered overalls.
00:41:55.983 --> 00:42:02.143
Like, Brittany Murphy was different than the other Hollywood girl. She was in the best way.
00:42:02.303 --> 00:42:04.883
Unfortunately, it ate at her.
00:42:05.143 --> 00:42:10.803
Exactly. But for this, that's so much of why that worked.
00:42:10.923 --> 00:42:16.503
And honestly, as we've been talking about it, I realized I think that was my
00:42:16.503 --> 00:42:23.903
biggest takeaway from that makeover scene was like, there's so much there of like,
00:42:24.043 --> 00:42:27.923
if only the popular kids could make me normal,
00:42:28.103 --> 00:42:35.203
could make me this standard of beauty that we're telling young girls is achievable.
00:42:35.203 --> 00:42:41.063
if you just do these three things, when of course it's so unachievable for most people.
00:42:41.123 --> 00:42:46.163
But those scenes tell you that if the popular girls had you for 20 minutes- Yeah.
00:42:46.223 --> 00:42:49.243
Here's your checklist. Yeah. Yeah, dance continues.
00:42:49.583 --> 00:42:54.083
One could argue convincingly that the transformation is the narrative root,
00:42:54.243 --> 00:42:58.243
that transformation is the narrative root of every story, particularly those
00:42:58.243 --> 00:43:00.943
circulating in American culture, American literature-
00:43:01.791 --> 00:43:09.951
And cinema shares an obsession with rags to riches or a story that transforms social class.
00:43:10.151 --> 00:43:14.391
Hollywood articulates a narrative of class ascension both in its fiction films
00:43:14.391 --> 00:43:19.151
and its real star bodies, like what happened to Brittany Murphy in real life.
00:43:19.551 --> 00:43:24.591
And Americans never seem to tire of stories about the underdog transformed into
00:43:24.591 --> 00:43:29.131
a winner somehow, the orphan transformed into a prince, the nobody transformed into a star.
00:43:29.131 --> 00:43:34.891
But what makes the makeover in film a modern form of the much older narrative
00:43:34.891 --> 00:43:38.991
trope of transformation is its emphasis on authenticity.
00:43:39.231 --> 00:43:42.811
The real self is revealed to the world as an improved appearance.
00:43:43.191 --> 00:43:49.111
In other words, what defines the makeover is its central project to externalize
00:43:49.111 --> 00:43:50.731
one's inner charm and beauty.
00:43:50.891 --> 00:43:54.911
The fantasy of the makeover in film then is not becoming someone else,
00:43:54.931 --> 00:43:58.011
but becoming oneself more fully. right.
00:43:58.011 --> 00:44:01.351
Or like your best self if you weren't so dumpy.
00:44:01.351 --> 00:44:03.831
Right because.
00:44:03.831 --> 00:44:07.271
It is kind of a back backhanded compliment.
00:44:07.271 --> 00:44:10.751
And i think that this is where clueless excels where
00:44:10.751 --> 00:44:14.251
other films fail because it actually rejects
00:44:14.251 --> 00:44:17.271
this trope what sets clueless apart from most
00:44:17.271 --> 00:44:20.111
of these makeover movies is the tie eventually rejects being
00:44:20.111 --> 00:44:23.031
shares frankenstein's monster to borrow a
00:44:23.031 --> 00:44:26.771
term from mean girls share creates a plastic that she can't control and then
00:44:26.771 --> 00:44:31.291
she and ty both realize that ty was living a life as shares doll and rejecting
00:44:31.291 --> 00:44:37.311
who she really is so the infantilized dress the baby doll dresses the overalls
00:44:37.311 --> 00:44:42.411
this is top this is shares understanding of ty,
00:44:43.897 --> 00:44:46.917
but ty is like wearing it right like.
00:44:46.917 --> 00:44:47.837
She's her baby doll.
00:44:47.837 --> 00:44:52.537
She's her baby doll yeah and and share is like despite being super confident
00:44:52.537 --> 00:44:59.477
not super good at being this like manipulative whatever she thinks.
00:44:59.477 --> 00:45:05.097
She sees herself as this mentor like hey i'm gonna rescue you from social suicide.
00:45:05.097 --> 00:45:08.297
When ultimately she's a virgin who can't drive yeah.
00:45:08.297 --> 00:45:11.257
Ultimately she she herself has the most growing to do.
00:45:11.257 --> 00:45:12.777
Even though she sees.
00:45:12.777 --> 00:45:13.977
Herself as this benefactor.
00:45:13.977 --> 00:45:15.337
Exactly and.
00:45:15.337 --> 00:45:20.677
Then she finds that growth as so many of us have by sleeping with her stepbrother that's good.
00:45:20.677 --> 00:45:28.717
She got she got is he still her stepbrother if yeah i.
00:45:28.717 --> 00:45:34.237
Mean the foundation is weird because you've started out yeah it's yeah yeah.
00:45:34.237 --> 00:45:39.057
There are more satirical works that also do this mean girls does this where
00:45:39.057 --> 00:45:40.997
they kind of reject the plastic mentality.
00:45:41.577 --> 00:45:46.617
Jawbreaker, where Fern Mayo, they like create a Frankenstein and Fern Mayo that
00:45:46.617 --> 00:45:48.177
like winds up destroying them.
00:45:48.297 --> 00:45:53.217
But Clueless is relatively earnest and not super overt with Ty's rejection of
00:45:53.217 --> 00:45:55.497
Cher's vision of her femininity.
00:45:55.677 --> 00:46:01.477
So it's kind of easy to overlook this plot point that Ty eventually like goes back to kind of the norm.
00:46:02.277 --> 00:46:07.357
She kind of finds this like middle ground stylistically where she's not she
00:46:07.357 --> 00:46:11.077
doesn't look exactly the way she did when we first meet her but she does kind
00:46:11.077 --> 00:46:18.037
of like arrive at this medium place where she could bring like more makeup she's still grungy.
00:46:18.037 --> 00:46:21.537
But it's more of like adelia's grungy than.
00:46:21.537 --> 00:46:22.017
It was.
00:46:22.017 --> 00:46:26.457
A like skateboarding shop grungy and.
00:46:26.457 --> 00:46:27.397
It's definitely not.
00:46:27.397 --> 00:46:29.877
Infant infantilized.
00:46:29.877 --> 00:46:31.677
Anymore she's not the baby doll.
00:46:31.677 --> 00:46:36.497
Yeah no she's not which is good It kind of hits a good...
00:46:37.246 --> 00:46:40.006
a good medium where you feel like she just has a little bit more confidence
00:46:40.006 --> 00:46:43.286
where she can like take or leave these ideas of beauty.
00:46:43.406 --> 00:46:46.086
She can like, I don't like that one. That's not for me. Like,
00:46:46.086 --> 00:46:47.466
what is my version of that?
00:46:47.666 --> 00:46:52.546
That I think is also really relatable to a lot of like weird girls,
00:46:52.626 --> 00:46:57.386
because I think so many of us as kids really wanted to be those popular girls
00:46:57.386 --> 00:47:00.426
just because, I don't know, we didn't want to get bullied and we wanted to fit
00:47:00.426 --> 00:47:02.186
in. We wanted to think we were beautiful.
00:47:02.326 --> 00:47:06.646
We wanted other people to think we were worthy, you know, but also like that
00:47:06.646 --> 00:47:09.206
didn't actually really make sense for us that's not really what we wanted we
00:47:09.206 --> 00:47:12.366
wanted acceptance and we still wanted our sense of style so i feel like where
00:47:12.366 --> 00:47:15.946
she lands stylistically is very true to who that person would be.
00:47:15.946 --> 00:47:18.686
Yeah and and kind of more true to
00:47:18.686 --> 00:47:21.526
life in that like you don't you don't need
00:47:21.526 --> 00:47:25.686
to reject wholesale the popular girls out of spite and you don't need to dress
00:47:25.686 --> 00:47:29.966
exactly like them or like they want you to dress just because of fealty to them
00:47:29.966 --> 00:47:33.826
like you can take some makeup tips and still be who you are go after the boys
00:47:33.826 --> 00:47:37.786
you want to go after even though share thinks thinks it's like he's totally
00:47:37.786 --> 00:47:39.986
gross or whatever, Breckenmire's character.
00:47:40.346 --> 00:47:46.866
I want to throw in one makeover scene that actually I think does present the
00:47:46.866 --> 00:47:50.086
best version of that character because she's hiding before.
00:47:50.426 --> 00:47:53.206
And that is My Big Fat Greek Wedding.
00:47:53.486 --> 00:47:54.086
Sure.
00:47:54.526 --> 00:48:00.386
Where main character does give herself a makeover. And I think because she gives it to herself.
00:48:00.866 --> 00:48:05.146
It also takes place over a super long period of time. Right.
00:48:05.146 --> 00:48:07.906
It's not immediate. it's not in 20 minutes or a
00:48:07.906 --> 00:48:14.886
day yes it's it's a gradual her coming out and being more involved like engaged
00:48:14.886 --> 00:48:20.306
in the world and her surroundings not hiding in herself and then because she's
00:48:20.306 --> 00:48:27.446
yeah grown into herself even in like a late bloomer type of way because she's what she's.
00:48:27.446 --> 00:48:28.586
Like in her mid-30s.
00:48:28.586 --> 00:48:33.126
Yeah she's like 30 like her life becomes richer no i think that that's a totally good.
00:48:33.126 --> 00:48:39.606
That's a good poll i love her so much and she's like a wonderful wonderful person
00:48:39.606 --> 00:48:45.286
i have like i could go off about how great she is we're because we're friends now and i like,
00:48:46.326 --> 00:48:51.226
she's awesome she was at the she like saw something i posted some comedy video
00:48:51.226 --> 00:48:54.966
i posted she was like this is really funny and i told her my first book uh when
00:48:54.966 --> 00:48:57.906
how to be alone came out i was like i'm gonna be in la like i'd love to meet
00:48:57.906 --> 00:49:02.306
you i don't know and she was like i'll be there and she was first in line to
00:49:02.306 --> 00:49:03.626
buy a copy. I shit my pants.
00:49:03.626 --> 00:49:04.446
Oh, that's so nice.
00:49:04.666 --> 00:49:08.206
Like, I literally have a photo that my friend took of me standing next to her,
00:49:08.266 --> 00:49:10.946
not looking cool at all. Like, my mouth open, like...
00:49:11.721 --> 00:49:15.021
What is happening right now? Like she said she would do it and she did.
00:49:15.801 --> 00:49:19.481
She's a one, like she's a wonderful person. So it's like, and that movie meant
00:49:19.481 --> 00:49:24.861
a lot to me because it is this like really beautiful story that could only be
00:49:24.861 --> 00:49:27.821
really told by somebody like she was slept on for so long.
00:49:27.981 --> 00:49:30.761
I don't know. I just, I have so much near Rodolf love that I want to.
00:49:31.101 --> 00:49:34.721
It's that authenticity question that we've been talking about, right? Like you can see.
00:49:35.441 --> 00:49:38.541
She's deeply just this wonderful person.
00:49:38.541 --> 00:49:43.961
And it's reflected in her self-makeover scene in Big Fat Greek Wedding, right?
00:49:44.061 --> 00:49:47.081
It's like the authenticity of like, this doesn't take 10 minutes.
00:49:47.161 --> 00:49:50.621
This isn't something that you go to the popular girl to do for you.
00:49:50.701 --> 00:49:53.161
Like you have to look within to like change yourself.
00:49:53.321 --> 00:49:59.241
And also, I think that this like rejection of the like, whatever the popular
00:49:59.241 --> 00:50:04.041
girls have prescribed for you thing is also present in the song, right?
00:50:04.201 --> 00:50:09.421
It's like the tongue-in-cheekness. it kind of reminds me of those like cringy
00:50:09.421 --> 00:50:12.801
I think it's like a winking version of those cringy shirts that they sold at
00:50:12.801 --> 00:50:19.441
Target that said things like too pretty to do homework you know like yeah also didn't.
00:50:19.441 --> 00:50:23.361
They get and they got like a real racist real fast that whole era of t-shirts they got.
00:50:23.361 --> 00:50:25.281
Racist yeah the mid.
00:50:25.281 --> 00:50:30.181
2000s graphic tea era I remember it well the.
00:50:30.181 --> 00:50:38.641
Song is like acknowledging that and winking it at it right like taking away its power.
00:50:38.961 --> 00:50:44.501
Even after being laid bare in Clueless, the makeover scene is still used to
00:50:44.501 --> 00:50:49.921
reinforce ideals of white femininity and to reject or punish masculine women.
00:50:50.201 --> 00:50:54.201
So Miss Congeniality, G.I. Jane, the house bunny, I could go on.
00:50:54.921 --> 00:50:59.621
But few of these moments have the staying power of Clueless and Supermodel and
00:50:59.621 --> 00:51:04.181
Amy Heckerling's sometimes misunderstood subversion of the makeover trope.
00:51:04.932 --> 00:51:07.832
And even women's magazines have
00:51:07.832 --> 00:51:12.052
come around to almost reckoning with their complicity in makeover culture.
00:51:12.132 --> 00:51:19.392
In 2022, Cosmo UK published an article, Can we all agree movie makeover scenes are problematic?
00:51:20.912 --> 00:51:25.392
Yes, Cosmo. It's the movies that were the problem all along.
00:51:25.712 --> 00:51:30.272
Yeah, also that 2022, you're coming to that realization in 2022, Cosmo UK?
00:51:30.532 --> 00:51:34.192
Yeah, Lane, actually, you worked at Cosmopolitan. I did.
00:51:34.312 --> 00:51:40.852
Yeah, I came into Cosmo and my whole goal at Cosmo was to make Cosmo super queer,
00:51:41.032 --> 00:51:46.332
super body positive, super like don't shave your legs if you don't want to shave your legs.
00:51:46.912 --> 00:51:48.012
How did that go over?
00:51:48.012 --> 00:51:52.532
I mean, I won a GLAAD award and that was really what I set out to do.
00:51:52.672 --> 00:51:56.332
I just, I really wanted to make it like, and because, I mean,
00:51:56.352 --> 00:52:02.752
my whole thing was, I was like, I, I just figured there were people,
00:52:02.812 --> 00:52:05.952
like I'd worked for, like I'd written for a lot of magazines and stuff that
00:52:05.952 --> 00:52:07.332
like you couldn't get everywhere.
00:52:07.332 --> 00:52:11.632
And I was like, okay, well, if people are going to be reaching for Cosmo,
00:52:11.652 --> 00:52:15.772
what if, or looking at the website, whatever, what if they open it up and it
00:52:15.772 --> 00:52:16.932
didn't make them hate themselves?
00:52:17.452 --> 00:52:23.432
And it was just, I'm very, you know, I'm very proud that I did that because
00:52:23.432 --> 00:52:26.572
that didn't exist when I was there. Media did not have that.
00:52:26.672 --> 00:52:29.532
It did not do that. like I started doing
00:52:29.532 --> 00:52:33.852
articles that were like 13 ways to get a bikini body and it was like every single
00:52:33.852 --> 00:52:39.052
one was like put on a bikini and that was like now you know years later it's
00:52:39.052 --> 00:52:43.212
like people are like oh yeah that's right like it's become more in the lexicon
00:52:43.212 --> 00:52:46.252
but like people weren't talking about that shit then it was still very much
00:52:46.252 --> 00:52:49.452
like get a trainer why are you eating like,
00:52:49.992 --> 00:52:53.832
so I don't know you know it was a I'm not gonna say it wasn't an uphill battle
00:52:53.832 --> 00:52:55.612
it was you know Whenever you're trying
00:52:55.612 --> 00:52:59.132
to change something that's like institutionalized, it's going to be hard.
00:53:00.572 --> 00:53:04.712
I mean, look at if Cosmo UK is only coming to that conclusion in 2022.
00:53:05.372 --> 00:53:09.172
And not looking inward. They're still not looking inward at all.
00:53:09.252 --> 00:53:10.952
They're like, yes, it's the movie's problems.
00:53:11.152 --> 00:53:14.812
And we haven't done anything to perpetuate that.
00:53:14.812 --> 00:53:18.752
It's like, you know, but that's the whole thing.
00:53:18.832 --> 00:53:22.212
It's like trying to change anything from the inside is a nice idea.
00:53:22.212 --> 00:53:27.052
is kind of where you know you do what you can that's all.
00:53:27.052 --> 00:53:29.992
And just like with clueless and and in
00:53:29.992 --> 00:53:33.732
your work at cosmo like you have to look at the the
00:53:33.732 --> 00:53:37.432
subversions of the tropes that you are playing with
00:53:37.432 --> 00:53:40.472
right like clueless is a is a movie about a makeover
00:53:40.472 --> 00:53:43.312
and then the lesson is like be yourself and you're
00:53:43.312 --> 00:53:48.912
working at cosmo where it's like don't eat ever and you're like hey be gay and
00:53:48.912 --> 00:53:53.712
Harry and like it's like you have to dig sometimes you have to dig deep in media
00:53:53.712 --> 00:54:00.592
to find that stuff but it exists and the more that we get to seek it out the more we get to do it.
00:54:01.328 --> 00:54:04.968
I would like Be Gay and Hairy just to be our new tagline.
00:54:05.288 --> 00:54:11.508
That's a t-shirt. You can find Be Gay and Hairy at our t-shirt shop.
00:54:12.068 --> 00:54:15.768
Hairy Styles has something to do with it now. He's officially branded.
00:54:17.648 --> 00:54:22.228
Don't actually be Hairy. It's more of a Hairy Styles branding moment.
00:54:23.768 --> 00:54:28.528
Before we wrap up, Lane, can you tell us more about you're putting out a book
00:54:28.528 --> 00:54:30.648
soon and where can we find you? you.
00:54:30.808 --> 00:54:36.088
So my second book, You Will Find Your People, How to Make Meaningful Friendships
00:54:36.088 --> 00:54:39.648
as an Adult comes out on paperback April 25th, which I'm really excited about.
00:54:40.228 --> 00:54:44.668
It's my first hardcover to paperback makeover, if you will.
00:54:44.928 --> 00:54:50.708
I also wrote an ebook slash audio book called You're Not the Only One Fucking Up.
00:54:50.988 --> 00:54:54.168
And it's breaking the endless cycle of dating mistakes.
00:54:54.488 --> 00:54:58.668
And so you can find all all this information and tour dates.
00:54:58.908 --> 00:55:03.248
And, um, I also have a podcast called, I thought it was just me,
00:55:03.328 --> 00:55:07.268
or we talk about, um, basically everything where you feel like you're the only
00:55:07.268 --> 00:55:09.268
one kind of stressing about things, uh,
00:55:09.508 --> 00:55:14.968
that I honestly threw, you know, as, as a, when we're talking about Cosmo and
00:55:14.968 --> 00:55:19.988
stuff, Cosmo was the first place that I realized I wasn't the only one who thought certain things.
00:55:20.028 --> 00:55:22.548
I was like, Oh, I don't know. Definitely the weirdo at the, at Cosmo.
00:55:24.728 --> 00:55:29.348
I'm And then having all these women, all genders be like, oh,
00:55:29.368 --> 00:55:31.088
my God, she thinks like me.
00:55:31.168 --> 00:55:33.968
And I'm like, how? I'm so weird.
00:55:34.468 --> 00:55:40.568
I'm so different. But, you know, so that actually was a big part of me realizing that.
00:55:40.688 --> 00:55:43.988
But, yeah, you can find that is on Patreon.
00:55:44.088 --> 00:55:48.928
And all the information is at LaneMoore.org. You can find all of the things.
00:55:49.048 --> 00:55:54.408
And my socials are at HelloLaneMoore. I'm always trying to remember everything.
00:55:56.348 --> 00:55:59.548
Thanks so much for joining us you were awesome,
00:56:00.458 --> 00:56:02.878
And I will be listening to your podcast.
00:56:03.318 --> 00:56:04.778
Yeah. Yeah.
00:56:05.798 --> 00:56:12.438
I have read your first and second book and cannot wait to read the e-book,
00:56:12.518 --> 00:56:14.798
even though I am no longer dating. I will still read it.
00:56:16.098 --> 00:56:20.418
Thank you. Thank you. You know, it was, it was one of the things that I,
00:56:20.438 --> 00:56:25.058
I'm really proud of about it is that I think so much of it, even,
00:56:25.058 --> 00:56:28.098
even when you're, even when you're with somebody, even when you're partnered,
00:56:28.178 --> 00:56:33.978
you still sometimes realize you're like kind of doing some things that you can't let go of.
00:56:34.158 --> 00:56:37.278
Um, but you're like, Oh my God, am I still doing this? Even with like a safe,
00:56:37.298 --> 00:56:39.278
healthy partner, I really am still doing this.
00:56:39.358 --> 00:56:42.898
And I like interviewed a bunch of people who are like different ages from different
00:56:42.898 --> 00:56:45.958
backgrounds about like things they looked back and realized that they were doing
00:56:45.958 --> 00:56:48.378
in their relationships.
00:56:48.538 --> 00:56:53.598
And I think really more than, you know, a book about dating,
00:56:53.738 --> 00:56:58.938
I feel like even beyond that, I also just wanted to write about how it can feel
00:56:58.938 --> 00:57:02.298
like you're the only person who like keeps making the same mistakes in your life.
00:57:02.438 --> 00:57:05.058
And like, why can't you figure it out? Why can't you just solve this?
00:57:05.498 --> 00:57:08.318
And I beat myself up for that all the time.
00:57:08.438 --> 00:57:12.538
And it was very cathartic to write about and read about all these other women
00:57:12.538 --> 00:57:16.378
and men and all these different ages and hear them say like,
00:57:16.438 --> 00:57:22.238
you know, and you can tell from them talking, they're like very smart, very cool.
00:57:22.418 --> 00:57:25.378
And well, you know, subjectively cool. I think they're cool.
00:57:25.498 --> 00:57:29.758
But like, you know what I mean? Like, they just seem like good people that you would never expect.
00:57:30.378 --> 00:57:32.658
Because I think so many of us have this idea that like,
00:57:35.281 --> 00:57:38.361
you're the only one who's messing it up. Everybody else has this figured out
00:57:38.361 --> 00:57:40.681
and you're like left behind. Something's wrong with you.
00:57:40.761 --> 00:57:42.241
Everyone got a manual but you.
00:57:42.701 --> 00:57:45.801
Yeah. I mean, I feel that way all the time. And so it's like really nice when
00:57:45.801 --> 00:57:47.161
you, you know, especially,
00:57:47.821 --> 00:57:51.261
I think the reason I use the word cool too is because there is this idea of
00:57:51.261 --> 00:57:55.561
this like cool girl who like never makes the same mistake twice and she like
00:57:55.561 --> 00:57:59.641
takes her lessons and moves on and like, I'm not, I'm not her.
00:57:59.821 --> 00:58:04.261
I want to be her. I don't, I feel like nobody can be her, but it's this kind
00:58:04.261 --> 00:58:10.041
of, weird distillation of this like i don't know it's some weird off-tune feminism
00:58:10.041 --> 00:58:12.701
that's like listen girl i.
00:58:12.701 --> 00:58:15.901
Feel like we all try to be that to each other especially as
00:58:15.901 --> 00:58:18.701
as um when people identifying as women
00:58:18.701 --> 00:58:22.481
um like because i've noticed that even uh
00:58:22.481 --> 00:58:25.301
people who've been together for like long periods of
00:58:25.301 --> 00:58:28.321
time like like friends
00:58:28.321 --> 00:58:31.441
that you have that you used to just like spill all
00:58:31.441 --> 00:58:36.521
the the relationship tea too you just stop doing that after a while like if
00:58:36.521 --> 00:58:41.581
like the longer you're with your partner you just want to like show to the world
00:58:41.581 --> 00:58:43.361
that you are that cool girl and
00:58:43.361 --> 00:58:48.841
you don't talk about the real shit anymore with those closest to you you.
00:58:48.841 --> 00:58:49.621
Don't want to make any.
00:58:49.621 --> 00:58:50.121
More mistakes.
00:58:50.121 --> 00:58:51.601
Anymore and we have this.
00:58:51.601 --> 00:58:52.221
Idea like.
00:58:52.221 --> 00:58:57.941
If you're partnered if you have friends now or whatever there's no more work to do you solved it you.
00:58:57.941 --> 00:59:02.401
Nailed it i think yeah it doesn't it does not end yeah no I think that's that's.
00:59:02.401 --> 00:59:08.681
So much of the work I do on myself and the work that I do in art and things
00:59:08.681 --> 00:59:11.761
like and that's why I write about it so much because it's something that is
00:59:11.761 --> 00:59:17.601
eternal for me and I don't ever feel like I've completely solved all of it and,
00:59:18.427 --> 00:59:22.927
There's like a shame in that, but there's also a freedom in that when I talk
00:59:22.927 --> 00:59:27.727
about it with other people, because I'm kind of that self-acceptance and kind
00:59:27.727 --> 00:59:32.647
of expanding that self-acceptance outwards and being like, hey, I'm just going to say it.
00:59:32.767 --> 00:59:36.587
I have not perfected whatever all of this is.
00:59:37.047 --> 00:59:39.767
And then it invites other people to be like, oh, thank God, me neither.
00:59:40.407 --> 00:59:42.687
it's just the first person first.
00:59:42.687 --> 00:59:48.467
Person that can break the surface tension of you know we're not none of us is okay.
00:59:48.467 --> 00:59:50.147
Those are my those.
00:59:50.147 --> 00:59:52.067
Are my favorite people in life yeah.
00:59:52.067 --> 00:59:56.987
It's it's that's always what i wanted to do as a kid i didn't understand why
00:59:56.987 --> 00:59:57.987
nobody talked about anything,
00:59:58.487 --> 01:00:01.347
why nobody wanted to talk about anything real i always wanted to talk about
01:00:01.347 --> 01:00:05.667
it so it's like it's one of those things where it's like in the biopic of my
01:00:05.667 --> 01:00:09.267
life it's like i really was that kid who was like, we're not all going to say
01:00:09.267 --> 01:00:11.567
the thing that's really happening, but I really want to.
01:00:11.667 --> 01:00:16.427
And it's like, grows up to be the person who says the thing that people don't want to say.
01:00:17.507 --> 01:00:21.927
And then everyone's like, yeah, yeah. So it's very important to me.
01:00:22.287 --> 01:00:26.007
I think we need as many of those people as possible.
01:00:26.107 --> 01:00:27.947
I try to collect those people in my life.
01:00:28.127 --> 01:00:28.387
Yeah.
01:00:30.627 --> 01:00:36.167
Thank you so much. And thank you for listening. We are edited by Katie Yoner,
01:00:36.167 --> 01:00:39.227
production coordinators Kyle Bosch associate producer
01:00:39.227 --> 01:00:42.367
social media producer
01:00:42.367 --> 01:00:47.027
Dale Stanflea executive produced by Tommy West original music by Taylor barefoot
01:00:47.027 --> 01:00:52.947
we are a pro podcast in sync is a production of Gotham West Studios follow us
01:00:52.947 --> 01:00:59.687
on Facebook Twitter Instagram tick-tock everyone at the innocent we'll see you next time.