speaker-0: Perfect. Hello everybody. Welcome to our interview with Check In and also our joint customer, Denver Stay. ⁓ very happy to be here as well. My name is Patrick. I'm the partnership manager of ⁓ Hospitable. Just giving over the word to Valerie to quickly introduce yourself and then also to Manuel as well. Thank you. Hi Manuel, hi Patrick. ⁓ thanks for the time today. ⁓ Valerie and I did the partnership at SECI. and yeah, I'm here today because Denver Stay is a great ⁓ shared customer of hospitable and and checking. And Manuel has a really interesting story to tell us today. So I'm just excited to hear about it. Perfect. Then let's kick it off. Manuel, tell us a little bit more about yourself and also about Denver Stay and how you get started into the short term rental.
speaker-1: Sure. So ⁓ my name is Benwell. ⁓ and Denver States is actually the brand that I chose for the short term rental properties that I debuted in Denver, Colorado, ⁓ which started out with just one property as a bit of a house hack because I was deployed to Italy with the military with ⁓ on a deployment that I thought was temporary, ⁓ ended up being about five and a half years long. ⁓ but during that time I ⁓ I wanted to list my house on Airbnb and then I saw the opportunities that that presented and that quickly expanded to three additional properties in Denver, which were and I I took over management myself with the help of Hospitable. ⁓ and then ⁓ other hosts were ⁓ in in in the area saw the reviews that I got and the ⁓ the the the quality that I was able to offer and they asked me to help them out and I I didn't actually expect to become a ⁓ a short term rental manager, but ⁓ that's how it ended up. And then I was able to expand that to Europe as well with ⁓ with check ins help ⁓ because of the additional regulatory requirements ⁓ that would have been a little bit difficult to manage ⁓ on my own. ⁓ so now I have ⁓ two properties of my own in Europe and about five or six that I help others manage that I'm that I'm working on onboarding. Mm-hmm.
speaker-0: Super interesting, absolutely. And so you manage more or less like twelve to like fifteen properties across like US, Italy, and you're right now in bus in lovely Barcelona in Spain. Why living in Italy? What is ⁓ absolutely fantastic and also this flexibility of check in and hospital is very cool to see. ⁓ how do you split those four locations and how did that set up come about as well?
speaker-1: So it came about as by necessity, as I mentioned, ⁓ because of my ⁓ deployment to Italy. ⁓ and then I originally had a on the ground property manager that took care of ⁓ almost everything ⁓ for my one property that I started with in Denver. ⁓ but I was very involved and ⁓ I have a knack for customization and ⁓ Eventually after about a year, I asked if I could just go out on my own. And we had been using Hospitable already. and she she recommended to me, tried out some other ones. Turns out I should have stuck with Hospitable and I did. particularly because of the the the level of customer service that they provided ⁓ as I was onboarding myself. ⁓ and then I was able to build a team ⁓ primarily from some of the cleaners that I had been working with. ⁓ some of the more proactive cleaners that were more willing to do maintenance and keep track of guests and ⁓ and do guest messaging. and ⁓ also in combination with some friends that I had in the area, we were able to build a team to do local management in Denver. and my spouse also would go there and visit and and and and maintain the properties as well. ⁓ and then once we had that baseline, we found that it was relatively easy to to expand. ⁓ so there's a little bit of time zone overlap, but ⁓ we have our our roles pretty well defined and it allows us to ⁓ to toggle between ⁓ multiple locations and then even help out some friends with properties. I've had one in Texas, that one eventually got sold, and I have one in Los Angeles, ⁓ which I just I help the automations for. ⁓ I just have kind of like a package that I have for one friend where I I set up the automations in Hospital. but then he he does a a lot of the on the ground ⁓ management activities. ⁓ so it it's a custom setup ⁓ based on the location of each property.
speaker-0: And super interesting. And Manuel, ⁓ tell us a little bit more about how your day to day looked like before automating as well. I mean, we just talked about that you had your first matcha ⁓ coffee as well. So I think now it's everything a little bit more ⁓ relaxed as well. But what was also like what was taking most of your time as well?
speaker-1: I'm not sure there was a time before automation because I as I mentioned I I was using Hospital with my first property manager. Now the extent to which everything was automated was limited. Of of course Hospitable has has is constantly rolling out new features, which I which I hop on ⁓ you know right away. but ⁓ I would say that if if ⁓ items like the TAS app ⁓ before that was r rolled out, ⁓ there was a lot of manual back and forth and ⁓ desynchronization with our ⁓ with our cleaners ⁓ that made it really difficult to track when guests had a special need or if there were damage issues that needed to result in claims and how to collect the right data and make sure to track it and submit it within the appropriate time frames and how to delay reviews and whatnot. ⁓ A lot of my time was was taken up in manual tracking systems to be able to manage that. ⁓ which is pretty impactful because ⁓ I I I've had you know, over the span of five years I've had a couple incidents that that ⁓ that I've I've had to, you know, deal with ⁓ w w with gas that that have been pretty costly. and I've been able to, but ⁓
speaker-2: Have
speaker-1: Having the automation systems that I have now I feel a lot more confident that ⁓ I wouldn't lose track of them. ⁓ whereas before I was sometimes on edge that, you know, I I may forget to submit something by a certain time and it cost me a couple thousand.
speaker-0: ⁓ sounds very interesting. And also what was like the turning point for like to because you were using like hospitable ⁓ as as a starting point, but what was also the turning point to go for check in, for instance?
speaker-2: So.
speaker-1: Check in. ⁓ I was ⁓ alerted to it by a ⁓ a client of mine in Italy because ⁓ she has a friend who has ⁓ other units in Italy and I was looking for a way to automate the guest registration process. So in in in in Europe, the requirements for the legal requirements of short term rentals are a lot more complex than they are in a lot of places in the US. ⁓
speaker-2: Bye!
speaker-1: Particularly the requirement for guest registration and collection of tourist data, the collection of tourist tax which is not collected by certain platforms like booking dot com, ⁓ and then remitting that tax separately to individual regions or provinces of the place where the ⁓ where the short term rentals operating. So all of that had to be done manually down to recording every ID document for every guest. ⁓ and then rechecking it of course because if there's an error it would get rejected and then submitting it between a pretty stringent timeframe. ⁓ in Italy I believe it's it's either the evening of the arrival of the guest or the next day. something that was i it was tightened ⁓ a year or two ago and it's placed under the umbrella of like anti terrorism security requirements. So The penalties for not doing it, ⁓ I'm not sure how how how strictly it's applied, ⁓ but it it it's in the tens of thousands of euros. ⁓ so whatever the probability that might happen, the impact is is really high. So it's ⁓ n having that ⁓ automated is very relieving and it allows me to scale confidently, ⁓ because of course if I if I had to do that for more than one or two properties. ⁓ it would be impossible to to scale. ⁓ even even when I was doing it manually for my one property, which was a portion of the apartment that I was living in. one doesn't want to do this every single evening. And then of course guests don't I mean I have one night stays, I have three night stays. So it would be some nights that I would have to do it and then other nights that I don't. So you know it wouldn't be unusual for me to be At a dinner and a guest checks in and I need to be talking to the guests about collecting their identity information, and then I have to step outside and manually type all this stuff on my phone on the on the government websites, which are not easy to log into. They're the most arcane like design that I've seen in a while. ⁓ so manually entering all that information was was pretty restrictive, and I I don't think that I would have even thought about scaling beyond my own property if if I didn't have ⁓ which I can help soon.
speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah, it it is do very difficult as well and also like so many like different registries in different countries as well. I think we Valerie has some ⁓ more questions about check in. So I'm giving you over the word to Valerie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, ⁓ first of all, for me makes like completely sense that compliance what ⁓ was brought you to us because ⁓ I mean Italy has one of the most complex legal environments, you already know it. ⁓ I mean it's super important to avoid this kind of risk to get fines or or problems with the low rise. So but but yeah so ⁓ let's talk about the actual impact and the results now. So before using checking a hospital, how many hours a week will you say that you spend dealing with guest communications and checking related tasks and how many hours do you think you spend now?
speaker-1: So I think it's it's a little bit difficult to pin down because checking and hospitable are what allowed me to expand to the point that I am now. ⁓ so I I guess I would have to apply some kind of multiplier to how many hours I was ⁓ spending when I had properties that I was managing more manually. ⁓ but I would say that ⁓ for The three properties that I had in Denver and the one property that I had in Italy before I switched over to check-in, Hospitable was helping a lot with the guest messaging and other automations like locks. ⁓ but I was probably spending 10 to 15 hours a week on top of my full-time job ⁓ with a lot of the manual work that I had to do. And then with the advent of the task app on Hospitable and the automations from check-in, ⁓ I probably spend about ten hours a week now, ⁓ with with ⁓ you know, the the twelve properties that I have. So ⁓ the same amount of time that I spent when I had three or four.
speaker-0: That's actually a lot of time that you that you are saving, right? ⁓ but if you had to put a number on it on how much time or even money will you say they save you every month? What number would be?
speaker-1: I guess to apply a multiplier would probably be forty, fifty hours a week ⁓ with the number of properties that I have now compared to the 10 or so hours a week. But I think that it's a little bit more complex than just the number of hours because the unsustainability of the forty to fifty hours a week is not so much the amount of time, but it's that there are certain time windows throughout the day where I e even with the automations, we get a rush of guest questions around check-in time, around checkout time during the turnover window. And if I had to be managing that at the same time as manually inputting all the guest data or manually getting them to sign contracts, or manually adding codes to locks, ⁓ I wouldn't be able to do it at all. Just because it gets compressed into such ⁓ small time windows. So The flexibility that it gives me is that ⁓ since so many of the ⁓ of of of the high concentration tasks are ⁓ automated, it spaces it out throughout the day. And if there's an actual guest issue that I need to hyperfocus on, ⁓ I have time to do it now, as opposed to worrying in the back of my head whether or not this guy is able to get into the house because the lock didn't get programmed correctly or or something of that sort.
speaker-0: Yeah, sure. Okay, great. So will you say that this time you are saving and all this automation you are implementing has allowed you to grow your portfolio without growing, for example, your team?
speaker-1: ⁓ for sure. so I I only have one manager at every location. Actually I would say I only have one manager in every time zone. ⁓ I have one manager in Denver and we split shifts. So I I take what would be the evening in Denver because I'm I'm awake during that time here ⁓ in Europe, and then she takes the morning and we have a little bit of overlap, which very conveniently because of our time zones is during the turnover window. And she also manages the the cleaning team ⁓ which are ⁓ a third party. ⁓ and we have times where we sync and we review the ⁓ the ⁓ feedback that's given after ⁓ turnovers to see if there's any issues we have to deal with. And then ⁓ for Europe, I do that all ⁓ myself ⁓ with a little bit of help from my ⁓ spouse sometimes. But for example, in in in the Madrid property Because of the automations ⁓ and some some other ⁓ some other automations that I've designed on the side, I don't have anyone on the ground other than a family member for emergencies. So ⁓ with that model, it allows me to to ⁓ I I could expand relatively quickly ⁓ as long as there's someone that can be online in the time zone where the property is.
speaker-0: Wow, that's that's interesting. And thanks for sharing. I think Patrick, you you have more questions. Yes. Because I'm a big Italy fan, ⁓ as you might know as well. So what it would could be very interesting as well, like from our like viewers as well, in our listeners. can you walk us through like a typical example? I think the brand you have in ⁓ Italy is like ⁓ very interesting to share. From the time like a guest checks in to a check check ⁓ guest checks out as well. So what Which tool comes into place at which time? I think that could be a very nice real time example, let's say.
speaker-1: Well I'd back it up a little bit more too. So from from the time that a guest actually makes a reservation, you have Hospitable and Checking come on the scene. ⁓ So ⁓ even before a guest makes a reservation, when they make ⁓ inquiries, of course, Hospitable has automated messaging that that responds to them, which is crucial for maintaining response rates. ⁓ different platforms have different algorithmic weights to response times, but they all give priority to quick responses. ⁓ they usually ask ⁓ a similar set of questions like you know what that they could probably find on the listing, but they don't look. ⁓ so I have a lot of them programmed already. and ⁓ some some of them are not able to book instantly, which then allows me to ⁓ to add security deposits in advance if I need to. ⁓ I was just discussing, Valerie, ⁓ a really useful feature that Check In has that allows me to turn on and turn off the security deposit requirement for individual booking channels. And the ⁓ guest profile for different booking channels varies. I found that for example, booking.com guests are expecting a little bit more of a hotel experience. As such, they are not, I guess, like as culturally integrated into the home sharing experience. So
speaker-2: The idea of
speaker-1: of of house rules and you know gas restrictions and how to behave if you're staying in ⁓ in a residential property ⁓ isn't as familiar to them. So ⁓ but fortunately they are familiar with giving their credit card information for you know tourist tax and a security deposit. ⁓ and the security deposit is a really good anchor to, you know, I have your money now, read the contract, make sure you understand w how you you know how the how this experience is going to go. ⁓ so I always take a security deposit from from booking.com guest, but then sometimes I take it from Airbnb guests when they don't have reviews or if they have somewhat of a negative review. so I'm able to turn that on in check-in before they book. So ⁓ so to start with the first step before they book, I I assess whether the the the the risk level of the guest and I determine whether or not ⁓ I want to apply some of these features.
speaker-2: And then when they do book.
speaker-1: ⁓ possible and check-in have ⁓ the integration ⁓ allows check-in to create a custom link that ⁓ gets embedded in the welcome message for the guest. ⁓ and then it also I I believe sends them an email, depending on which platform, whether or not a real email is available, that gives them instructions on the information they need to provide for ⁓ for the guest registration. And then sometimes like tourist tax collection. ⁓ then a couple days after, depending on on how far out they make the reservation, ⁓ I also ⁓ send them information ⁓ about the area, ⁓ how to get to the rental unit from the nearest train station or the nearest airports, parking information. a lot of times they ask the same question about availability of parking or ⁓ whether or not early or late check-in is available, whether or not they can check in after hours, ⁓ because they're not always clear that it's a self-check-in process. And all these questions are automatically answered by hospitable. ⁓ and it it it probably catches the context of the question correctly, you know, eighty-five, ninety percent of the time. And then the answer always says, you know, if that's not what you were asking, I'll get back to you a moment. So it it it makes sure that ⁓ it catches the guests as soon as they they message Chano so they can know that we're paying attention. and ⁓ and that we're ready to give them more information ⁓ whenever they need it. did you have any questions or comments on that before I go through to the
speaker-0: No, this is perfect. No really
speaker-1: Okay. No. ⁓
speaker-0: No, no, no, no, it's absolutely fantastic. Thank you so much for walking through because I think a lot of our hosts go through the same process as well. And I feel like the ability to make it as easy as possible for the guests to check in is one of the first big steps as well. To basically because you open your door to your property as well. And we talked about it also like in another meeting about the experience is really one of the most important things as well. But if you because we heard a lot about like verification, guest com ⁓ guest communication as well, but Going really to like specifically to check in, what is like the most rely ⁓ which tool do you ⁓ rely most on check in as well? Is it really the guest online check in, the guest verification, legal compliance? If you can like point it out, I think that would be very, very helpful.
speaker-1: So legal compliance is the is definitely the feature that I rely on the most because one, it gives guests ⁓ a a higher level of confidence when they're providing their personal information to a validated third party with a well designed website with you know the proper encryption ⁓ compared to many other experiences where hosts are asking them to send photos of their identity documents ⁓ through the ⁓ through the chat, particularly on Airbnb. ⁓ something which I I think ⁓ Europeans are a little bit more ⁓ familiar with the process of of identity verification. ⁓ Americans and ⁓ some other ⁓ nationalities are are are a little bit more hesitant to to to share this information. So they're ⁓ it gives them a lot more confidence when they when they see that we're using a a reputable third party, ⁓ which is something that I put in the message ⁓ that we we use, like we partner with this reputable third party to collect this ⁓ this sensitive information securely. I I I never had very much resistance to it before, but ever since ⁓ introducing ⁓ check-in into my flow, ⁓ I I haven't had any any guests have any security concerns about about providing this data. ⁓ and then of course for ⁓ the the the second most important thing that I use checking for is is the tourist tax collection. Yeah. ⁓ for some reason, booking.com will not collect tourist tax. It'll itemize it on on the reservation. ⁓ but it will not collect it. Airbnb will collect it, of course my direct bookings will collect it. ⁓ and I I believe Expedia doesn't collect it either. ⁓ I haven't had a reservation with Expedia, so not completely sure. ⁓ but if if we want to talk ⁓ money, not being able to ⁓ collect it through check-in was a significant cost because I would have to either be present physically to get cash and to give a receipt, which technically has to have a legal stamp that costs two euro in Italy, which is crazy. or I would have to ask them to send money to a business PayPal account that we had set up, or a money transfer platform called SATUS Pay that's used in Italy, or I would have to have them ask them to send a ⁓ a transfer, ⁓ a bank transfer to my IBAN, ⁓ all of which are this They they give a sense of of not being particularly secure and make guests ⁓ pretty uncomfortable ⁓ some of the time. ⁓ not to mention it has to be all manual. And I have to discuss with guests all the options that are available and which one they should choose and you know why I can't be there physically to just take the money from them. and the result was that If it if it just didn't work out, we weren't going to cancel the gas reservation if they didn't pay the tourist tax. ⁓ so we'd just have to eat the tourist tax a lot of the time. And it's it's not an insignificant ⁓ amount, ⁓ especially when it's a as as a percentage of some of the smaller units that that that we host. ⁓ so being able to do that automatically in the same flow as the guests entering their guest registration data has has has really been a lifesaver.
speaker-0: Super super interesting ⁓ what you just ⁓ shared with us. For everyone. It's much easier for you, it's much easier for the guests. So Yeah. And also transparency is also one of the factors that you also mentioned before is also very helpful. I mean you mentioned also ⁓ Airbnb and booking dot com and also Expedia a bit. ⁓ but you also use our hospitable direct booking as well. So how is this working for you? And also do you get ⁓ a lot of bookings via the diary booking and also like Share a little bit about the direct booking experience so far from hospital. There would be I think quite a lot of interesting factors.
speaker-2: So.
speaker-1: ⁓ that's the that's the ⁓ I guess the the the load still and that's it that's the goal for all all of us that are that are in this industry is is to get as many direct bookings as we can as these platforms start increasing their fees. ⁓ as as I was as as we were discussing the ⁓ the interview process before this podcast, ⁓ I was refreshing myself on ⁓ the the the amount that some of these platforms take and recently completely unannounced Airbnb Not only well they did announce that they were increasing their their fee by half a percent from fifteen to fifteen and a half percent, but they didn't announce that in June they started to apply ⁓ VAT tax to that. So add twenty two percent to that fifteen and a half percent, and now we're looking at eighteen point nine percent, I think. ⁓ which is which is significant. ⁓ that it's ⁓ no, we just lost three percent of revenue from one day to the next without ⁓ without even Airbnb ⁓ sending as much of an email to to notify. ⁓ And then booking is is is even worse. Like they'll say, like in in my jurisdiction it's it's eighteen percent, but on top of that, they will charge a payment processing fee of I think three percent, and then there's a VAT tax of twenty two percent on those other two, and it's n always it's not particularly clear how the math even adds up and what it applies to, until you dig into it. And it it booking ends up being I think twenty two percent or twenty three percent ⁓ ⁓ of the total booking amount. So the ⁓ the appeal and the incentive for for direct bookings is is is really big. ⁓ so I I have my direct booking website with Hospitable. and ⁓ I get a few bookings through there. However ⁓ I'm I'm I'm looking at ways to expand this a little bit more. I've looked at some you know third party ⁓ integrations that Hospitable has to design new websites that might have some embedded marketing features. ⁓ I'm actually in in in talks with ⁓ Haven.
speaker-0: Right now, ⁓
speaker-1: Yeah, they have they have a great platform. I just had a meeting with ⁓ with their founder ⁓ two days ago and I have another one on Monday. and she's helping me ⁓ with how how to design the website and how to arrange it and then particularly marketing, because marketing ⁓ I mean as as as short term rental hosts, what we're not necessarily marketing experts and how ⁓ online marketing has matured from the days of of like a Google Ad Rank or whatever it was called, you know, twenty years ago to now and and how ⁓ it's integrated into social media content is still a a bit of a black box for me, but that's that's the next step that I'm focusing on. ⁓ I did ⁓ find ⁓ a good amount of success with just simply creating a Google Maps location. Linking that to the ⁓ to the direct booking website that I have ⁓ through Hospitable. and while it doesn't look like guests are comfortable enough to make the booking itself, I have had a few, maybe like one a quarter. What I do get is a lot of inquiries because the phone number is on Google Maps, ⁓ the website is on Google Maps. And so I either get inquiries through the website, but mostly through like WhatsApp messages ⁓ to that phone number. ⁓ And then of course they ⁓ I I I answer their question and then I I'm able to give them a custom quote through Oscar Bowl and then I create a ⁓ reservation manually. ⁓ but that combination of exposure is has allowed me to grow the direct booking ⁓ in the last two years to 10 to 15 percent of of all my bookings. ⁓ then ⁓ aside from the Haven site, I'm I'm wanting to see how I can advertise within the BNB because anecdotally, ⁓ and from from town halls that hospital and whatnot, ⁓ they're always pushing, you know, have a QR code in the in the listing, have marketing in the listing, and I have it all over the listing. ⁓ but I'm not sure I'm not sure exactly why I maybe I just need to relook at the way that that that it's designed. ⁓ I don't have a ton of feedback from that. ⁓ I don't have a ton of clicks on that QR code because I can track that. ⁓ it's mostly still one on one conversations with guests. When I, you know, I'll I'll I did a little bit of email marketing and and and then they'll reach out to me and have a bunch of questions that'll eventually end up in a booking. ⁓ but I still haven't gotten quite to the point where I'm just seeing direct bookings pop up on my calendar pretty often. So that's the goal though.
speaker-0: Yeah, absolutely. And that's why we also have our ecosystem with partners like Book with Heaven, also Crafted States to really ⁓ help you also like to push your ⁓ direct booking as well. Because as you mentioned, the fees are getting higher right now and also with direct bookings are ⁓ quite a lot of ⁓ cheaper. going a little bit back into the our lovely Europe where we also live and with all the regulations, I think Valerie has some follow up questions on that one. Yeah, so ⁓ let's get into regulation again. So ⁓ short term rentals regulation are changing super fast in Europe. So we have the example of Italy, Spain, Germany, Portugal. But how are you experiencing the recent changes, for example, in Italy where you operate?
speaker-2: ⁓ So
speaker-1: You actually alerted me to some changes recently when we were having our discussion before this that I that I'm gonna have to look into. ⁓ it's ⁓ it's definitely very Byzantine and ⁓ having you know a good accountant ⁓ is important. I I I I think the ⁓ the important thing to keep in mind is to have a good source, not only accountant, but you know, a sources like check in that that can alert you to these kinds of changes as they take place. ⁓ the the thing about Europe too is a a lot of it's a you know a lot of bark and and not so much bite, but if but if you do get bit, it's a it's it's a it'll kill you. Yeah, you'll get a hundred thousand euro rabies bite. So ⁓
speaker-0: David followed you, yes. Yes.
speaker-1: So you you wanna try your best to stay compliant. ⁓ check in, ⁓ actually I think that I was alerted to check in as I I I eventually came on board because I was recommended by a friend of a friend who was using it. But before that, I remember using check in just as a resource from their blog, I think, that was describing in the level of detail that I needed to understand what the updates to the regulations were. Because ⁓ like just in the couple years that I've been ⁓ doing this ⁓ in in Europe, there have been so many court cases that have changed how different platforms withhold ⁓ income tax, for example, in Italy or Spain. And then in Spain, the registration requirements for tourist stays versus seasonal rentals ⁓ and how they're being enforced. Of course, like it it's ⁓ like Barcelona is a byword for no ⁓ no short term rentals at least in the in in the near future versus Madrid is is ⁓ has has a different registration process which just got struck down by the Spanish Supreme Court, so who knows what they're gonna come up with next and ⁓ like the legal burden that one has to have to demonstrate whether or not ⁓ one is hosting tourists or not. So I I I worked with a lawyer to create a custom contract that asks for very specific information. and ⁓ so I mean that's been my experience. ⁓ And I Valerie mentioned some invoicing requirements that I'm gonna have to look into. and it it makes me feel ⁓ like a lot more ⁓ a lot more confident that ⁓ that check in has features that support this already. So while I think that the invoicing requirements it it they change based on the on the tax structure of of individual hosts, ⁓ if I were to need it, ⁓ I'm I'm I'm glad that it's there and I'm and I I would be looking forward to using it for sure.
speaker-0: Hmm. Super interesting. Thank you for sharing. looking into a little bit in the location freedom, ⁓ not the financial freedom, but the location freedom, because I live, for instance, as a German in Portugal. Manel, you live in Italy as well. So do you have like any tricks, for instance, for hosts who are like managing their properties? For instance, in Colorado or in Los Angeles, where you have the properties, like any time zone tricks you can share, ⁓ like anything you would like to share, and also like how to basically keep ⁓ keep up with all the work as well within the different time zones.
speaker-2: So I.
speaker-1: I I can't say that this is a rule, but I think that it's easier if you're east of your properties. it just happens to be how I do it. I f for example, I was looking at ⁓ at and living in Japan for a couple of years, ⁓ and as I was drawing out a map of of which time zones I would be in relative to the properties that I manage, ⁓ it would be a lot more difficult to manage the properties to the east of me in that case because of the overlap during the like the the crucial windows of ⁓ of check-in checkout and the turnover. ⁓ so I think ⁓ yeah if you're east of your properties is little bit ⁓ easier to manage. ⁓ but I think that the most important thing is to have time zone overlap between ⁓ the tasks that you and your local representative are are managing. ⁓ So you can sync during the you know a a two to three hour window. ⁓ And ⁓ for for me that's late in the evening. ⁓ I often stay up later than I normally want to. ⁓ but ⁓ like check-in ends in sorry, check-in starts in the US for me at around ⁓ midnight in in Italy. So I usually have a sense of where guests are at prior to the check-in so that I can hand that off to my manager in the in the mid afternoon. and then in the morning, I it's usually midnight in Denver when I'm waking up here. So it's really important for me to wake up to finalize reports of turnovers that have occurred. ⁓ messages that show that guests have checked in and if they have any initial questions that they've been answered. And then my morning if I if I do anything in the morning or in the afternoon, it's usually administrative work or answering emergencies that happen in the middle of the night in Denver ⁓ or or LA, I guess. ⁓ and then I always know it like clockwork, at ⁓ two or three in the afternoon here in Europe, that's when the guests start waking up in the US. Yeah. That's when they have questions. That's when they yeah, that's I I start I start answering those messages and then my team usually wakes up well, I mean, I don't know when they wake up, but they they come online at like ten AM their time and and and they take over. And then that window in the evening is when we overlap the most and when we're, you know, communicating a lot back and forth. Time zone overlap is ⁓ you know, is what
speaker-0: But basically.
speaker-1: Daily time zone overlap of a few hours that's to answer your question is the most important thing.
speaker-0: Perfect. And also like a question from my side, but also very probably interesting for all our hosts here as well. What would you say to hosts who think they need to live where their properties are? Because I I I can imagine a lot of people have the idea of living in Italy, in Spain or in Portugal. what tip do you can or which advice can you give them?
speaker-1: ⁓ well you don't need to. there ⁓ it takes a little bit of creativity, but there are so many ways to automate, not just with the platforms that ⁓ that we partner with, ⁓ but also using a lot of home automation ⁓ devices ⁓ that allow you to monitor the property ⁓ without without having to be there. Of course
speaker-2: There are.
speaker-1: having a camera is really important. If you're gonna be something that I learned the hard way. ⁓ if you're gonna be remodeling a place, particularly in Europe, one really big consideration is install a door that is easy to install a smart lock on. ⁓ yesterday we were installing the fourth smart lock on a door that we're now just gonna eventually replace because this door's probably been there for 500 years. And then ⁓ the Access to the apartment buildings was a tough nut to crack. ⁓ but there are ways to ⁓ kind of hack into the ⁓ the intercom systems. ⁓ Nuki makes a product ⁓ an opener that ⁓ that allows you to buzz in guests. And ⁓ it only works for analog openers. ⁓ so for if you have a digital opener. There's like there's tiny ⁓ Wi-Fi enabled switches. Like this is my headphone case, but it's probably it's probably a third of the size of this. And it actually hides inside the switch panel. and it has an open API. So I've been able to design a web app where ⁓ it and and thanks to Hospitable's open API as well, it pulls the guest information from Hospitable. it ⁓ it validates that the that you know. Time now is in the guest day, and then if they tap a button, it sends ⁓ an API call to the electric switch which buzzes them into the door. ⁓ and the important ⁓ the reason for that is because one of the recent regulatory changes was ⁓ Italy's prohibition on ⁓ key boxes. Now that's the way that it was announced on the news for clickbait. It wasn't actually necessarily a complete block on key boxes, and I still have some, you know, hidden near the apartment in for for emergencies. ⁓ But ⁓ in general, when I see a key box, I'm automatically concluding that this is this is a relatively new host, or they're not, you know, they could be taking extra measures to make this a better experience. ⁓ so the guess that I have, they don't have to share a key. I'm not worried about them making copies of my keys. I'm not worried about them having, you know, taking the keys by accident, then me scrambling when I'm not physically present there. and it I can track exactly when they arrive, ⁓ when they depart. ⁓ now with the thermostat feature that Hospitable has, I can have it turn on the ⁓ the AC on and off ⁓ when they're arriving, when they're departing. and it it gives ⁓ the access control ⁓ is Probably one of the most important reasons that I'm that I'm able to manage ⁓ locations where I'm where I'm I'm not present physically.
speaker-0: Mm. This is this is very interesting. ⁓ maybe I have to talk to my neighbors because I see o one of those old boxes which I scroll it a pin code in as well because I always like felt the same way. Like this is very
speaker-2: And the same
speaker-1: The pin code is the same, they never change it. often they don't scramble it after they're done. So I mean if if someone really wanted to, you you could walk by and and every key box that you see in a town and a certain percentage of them are just gonna be open, take the key and now you have access to the whole apartment building. So
speaker-0: We always go to the same place and there's always the same code ⁓ in the pin box as well. So that's a very well also like ⁓ remark ⁓ for our host as well. ⁓ and also Valerie, ⁓ looking a little bit ahead as well, I think you have some questions for Manuel, how the industry is evolving. No, so now looking into the future, a near near future. So as a host expert that you are, ⁓ where do you see short term rental management going in the next few years?
speaker-1: So I think that along the same lines of of what I was just explaining, I think that ⁓ the automations that we have right now are going to be improved because they're going to take advantage of agentic AI, ⁓ which is going to reduce the the the manual tasks that that we perform. ⁓ And I think that it's going to keep pushing the short term rental landscape into a professional offering. So it when it was I mean Airbnb started because people didn't couldn't find ⁓ a place to stay for Obama's inauguration in DC. That that was that was the impetus for starting that. So ⁓ it started out as a upgraded couch surfing experience. And I think that I mean, I may be dating myself, but ⁓ like generationally that that That perception might still be floating around to some extent, but it's ⁓ it's not anymore. and we're in direct competition with ⁓ with not just hotels but but also ⁓ like government lobbying that that wants to artificially restrict the market. ⁓ so it's not ⁓ it's it's important to to step up and offer ⁓ a more professional experience, which is really only possible with with the help of of platforms like hospitable and check in. ⁓ not only because it makes our lives easier and it makes the guest experience better, but also it advertises to the industry as a whole, to governments that are looking to regulate, and ⁓ to guests that that ⁓ have other choices. it advertises to them that that we're serious about providing a a consistent ⁓ high quality experience ⁓ as opposed to ⁓ either on one end a informal, you know, upgraded couch surfing experience, or on another end, thinking of it as a as a cash cow where you can expand quickly without really paying attention to it. ⁓ that that may have been the case with, you know, revenge travel after COVID or maybe a little bit before that, but I don't think it's the case anymore. ⁓ I think guests have learned and governments have learned ⁓ that ⁓ you know it it it kind of it gives a bad name to the to the industry ⁓ when you have hosts that that try to expand too much and just try to make a buck. ⁓ and I think that ⁓ that that's gonna get more and more restricted. So if if if you don't if you don't step up and do this professionally, I think that y you would either get priced out or or regulate it out or it just ends up not being a a good investment because ⁓ you're not able to differentiate.
speaker-0: Mm-hmm. Yeah, thank you. So ⁓ I'm sure that maybe we have some hosts managing five or ten properties watching us today. So what advice will you give them in order to scale their portfolio?
speaker-1: ⁓ so of course it's gonna vary by location and by type of property and ⁓ a lot of different variables. I think the most important ⁓ is to do the financial analysis and ⁓ make sure that you understand what a ⁓ a reasonable ⁓ revenue stream is gonna look like and do analysis on the ⁓ the biggest cost drivers. you know what what is it gonna take to automate everything? Do you have the time to be attentive to to to guess for for the parts that aren't automated yet? ⁓ is is the ROI gonna work for you? Because if you're stuck in a place where ⁓ where you're not breaking even, it can get really frustrating. and and then you you just kind of feel stuck and it ends up, you know, damaging the experience just for for the guests and and and for you. And I've I've have helped some some ⁓ clients out of that hole by just ⁓ you know improving the the quality of their offering. ⁓ but others ⁓ I've just kind of held their hand to selling the property and telling the, you know, we should probably look into something else. so I so I think I understanding the cost drivers and you know ⁓ and working to to eliminate them. ⁓ and then sometimes it just means ⁓ letting letting some little stuff go and and and focusing on on ⁓ on higher priority items. ⁓ but A lot of times it's it's making the extra effort to ⁓ to call a guest who's complaining, even though it would be easier to just go back and forth with with messaging or ⁓ not relying exclusively on AI to answer every question or ⁓ you know making sure that the feedback that you give to ⁓ to you know guests and clients and and and you guys ⁓ on on on the importance of certain features is is is clear and detailed ⁓ and that that you insist on it so you understand ⁓ the like the value proposition that you're trying to extract from them. I guess back to the question, ⁓ how how to how to scale from five to ten properties. Yeah, there's a cost there's a cost driver, understand the cost driver ⁓ and understand how you can standardize your service ⁓ so that as you scale, it's almost as simple as just adding a plus one. And then I think one last thing that I would mention is having the right person at each location where you want to manage from is really crucial. If I didn't have ⁓ the right person in Denver with incredible work ethic, incredible responsiveness, and incredible honesty to tell me when she's able to fix a problem and when she's not, ⁓ when ⁓ whether or not she's able to take on additional properties. ⁓ when we have to change our booking strategy because the cleaning team capacity might be ⁓ strained at any given moment. So we might have to you know accept some vacancies or take some longer listings to protect quality. ⁓ that kind of ⁓ that kind of competence and and and trust relationship with a person that that you're working with is is is really, really important, especially ⁓ if you're if you're trying to scale ⁓ outside of of where you are physically.
speaker-0: Yeah, absolutely. This is super helpful. Thank you so much, ⁓ Manuel for sharing that as well. ⁓ cool. This was it for our episode today and our little interview with Demaste and Manuel. Thank you so much for joining.
speaker-1: Sure. So ⁓ my name is Benwell. ⁓ and Denver States is actually the brand that I chose for the short term rental properties that I debuted in Denver, Colorado, ⁓ which started out with just one property as a bit of a house hack because I was deployed to Italy with the military with ⁓ on a deployment that I thought was temporary, ⁓ ended up being about five and a half years long. ⁓ but during that time I ⁓ I wanted to list my house on Airbnb and then I saw the opportunities that that presented and that quickly expanded to three additional properties in Denver, which were and I I took over management myself with the help of Hospitable. ⁓ and then ⁓ other hosts were ⁓ in in in the area saw the reviews that I got and the ⁓ the the the quality that I was able to offer and they asked me to help them out and I I didn't actually expect to become a ⁓ a short term rental manager, but ⁓ that's how it ended up. And then I was able to expand that to Europe as well with ⁓ with check ins help ⁓ because of the additional regulatory requirements ⁓ that would have been a little bit difficult to manage ⁓ on my own. ⁓ so now I have ⁓ two properties of my own in Europe and about five or six that I help others manage that I'm that I'm working on onboarding. Mm-hmm.
speaker-0: Super interesting, absolutely. And so you manage more or less like twelve to like fifteen properties across like US, Italy, and you're right now in bus in lovely Barcelona in Spain. Why living in Italy? What is ⁓ absolutely fantastic and also this flexibility of check in and hospital is very cool to see. ⁓ how do you split those four locations and how did that set up come about as well?
speaker-1: So it came about as by necessity, as I mentioned, ⁓ because of my ⁓ deployment to Italy. ⁓ and then I originally had a on the ground property manager that took care of ⁓ almost everything ⁓ for my one property that I started with in Denver. ⁓ but I was very involved and ⁓ I have a knack for customization and ⁓ Eventually after about a year, I asked if I could just go out on my own. And we had been using Hospitable already. and she she recommended to me, tried out some other ones. Turns out I should have stuck with Hospitable and I did. particularly because of the the the level of customer service that they provided ⁓ as I was onboarding myself. ⁓ and then I was able to build a team ⁓ primarily from some of the cleaners that I had been working with. ⁓ some of the more proactive cleaners that were more willing to do maintenance and keep track of guests and ⁓ and do guest messaging. and ⁓ also in combination with some friends that I had in the area, we were able to build a team to do local management in Denver. and my spouse also would go there and visit and and and and maintain the properties as well. ⁓ and then once we had that baseline, we found that it was relatively easy to to expand. ⁓ so there's a little bit of time zone overlap, but ⁓ we have our our roles pretty well defined and it allows us to ⁓ to toggle between ⁓ multiple locations and then even help out some friends with properties. I've had one in Texas, that one eventually got sold, and I have one in Los Angeles, ⁓ which I just I help the automations for. ⁓ I just have kind of like a package that I have for one friend where I I set up the automations in Hospital. but then he he does a a lot of the on the ground ⁓ management activities. ⁓ so it it's a custom setup ⁓ based on the location of each property.
speaker-0: And super interesting. And Manuel, ⁓ tell us a little bit more about how your day to day looked like before automating as well. I mean, we just talked about that you had your first matcha ⁓ coffee as well. So I think now it's everything a little bit more ⁓ relaxed as well. But what was also like what was taking most of your time as well?
speaker-1: I'm not sure there was a time before automation because I as I mentioned I I was using Hospital with my first property manager. Now the extent to which everything was automated was limited. Of of course Hospitable has has is constantly rolling out new features, which I which I hop on ⁓ you know right away. but ⁓ I would say that if if ⁓ items like the TAS app ⁓ before that was r rolled out, ⁓ there was a lot of manual back and forth and ⁓ desynchronization with our ⁓ with our cleaners ⁓ that made it really difficult to track when guests had a special need or if there were damage issues that needed to result in claims and how to collect the right data and make sure to track it and submit it within the appropriate time frames and how to delay reviews and whatnot. ⁓ A lot of my time was was taken up in manual tracking systems to be able to manage that. ⁓ which is pretty impactful because ⁓ I I I've had you know, over the span of five years I've had a couple incidents that that ⁓ that I've I've had to, you know, deal with ⁓ w w with gas that that have been pretty costly. and I've been able to, but ⁓
speaker-2: Have
speaker-1: Having the automation systems that I have now I feel a lot more confident that ⁓ I wouldn't lose track of them. ⁓ whereas before I was sometimes on edge that, you know, I I may forget to submit something by a certain time and it cost me a couple thousand.
speaker-0: ⁓ sounds very interesting. And also what was like the turning point for like to because you were using like hospitable ⁓ as as a starting point, but what was also the turning point to go for check in, for instance?
speaker-2: So.
speaker-1: Check in. ⁓ I was ⁓ alerted to it by a ⁓ a client of mine in Italy because ⁓ she has a friend who has ⁓ other units in Italy and I was looking for a way to automate the guest registration process. So in in in in Europe, the requirements for the legal requirements of short term rentals are a lot more complex than they are in a lot of places in the US. ⁓
speaker-2: Bye!
speaker-1: Particularly the requirement for guest registration and collection of tourist data, the collection of tourist tax which is not collected by certain platforms like booking dot com, ⁓ and then remitting that tax separately to individual regions or provinces of the place where the ⁓ where the short term rentals operating. So all of that had to be done manually down to recording every ID document for every guest. ⁓ and then rechecking it of course because if there's an error it would get rejected and then submitting it between a pretty stringent timeframe. ⁓ in Italy I believe it's it's either the evening of the arrival of the guest or the next day. something that was i it was tightened ⁓ a year or two ago and it's placed under the umbrella of like anti terrorism security requirements. So The penalties for not doing it, ⁓ I'm not sure how how how strictly it's applied, ⁓ but it it it's in the tens of thousands of euros. ⁓ so whatever the probability that might happen, the impact is is really high. So it's ⁓ n having that ⁓ automated is very relieving and it allows me to scale confidently, ⁓ because of course if I if I had to do that for more than one or two properties. ⁓ it would be impossible to to scale. ⁓ even even when I was doing it manually for my one property, which was a portion of the apartment that I was living in. one doesn't want to do this every single evening. And then of course guests don't I mean I have one night stays, I have three night stays. So it would be some nights that I would have to do it and then other nights that I don't. So you know it wouldn't be unusual for me to be At a dinner and a guest checks in and I need to be talking to the guests about collecting their identity information, and then I have to step outside and manually type all this stuff on my phone on the on the government websites, which are not easy to log into. They're the most arcane like design that I've seen in a while. ⁓ so manually entering all that information was was pretty restrictive, and I I don't think that I would have even thought about scaling beyond my own property if if I didn't have ⁓ which I can help soon.
speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah, it it is do very difficult as well and also like so many like different registries in different countries as well. I think we Valerie has some ⁓ more questions about check in. So I'm giving you over the word to Valerie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, ⁓ first of all, for me makes like completely sense that compliance what ⁓ was brought you to us because ⁓ I mean Italy has one of the most complex legal environments, you already know it. ⁓ I mean it's super important to avoid this kind of risk to get fines or or problems with the low rise. So but but yeah so ⁓ let's talk about the actual impact and the results now. So before using checking a hospital, how many hours a week will you say that you spend dealing with guest communications and checking related tasks and how many hours do you think you spend now?
speaker-1: So I think it's it's a little bit difficult to pin down because checking and hospitable are what allowed me to expand to the point that I am now. ⁓ so I I guess I would have to apply some kind of multiplier to how many hours I was ⁓ spending when I had properties that I was managing more manually. ⁓ but I would say that ⁓ for The three properties that I had in Denver and the one property that I had in Italy before I switched over to check-in, Hospitable was helping a lot with the guest messaging and other automations like locks. ⁓ but I was probably spending 10 to 15 hours a week on top of my full-time job ⁓ with a lot of the manual work that I had to do. And then with the advent of the task app on Hospitable and the automations from check-in, ⁓ I probably spend about ten hours a week now, ⁓ with with ⁓ you know, the the twelve properties that I have. So ⁓ the same amount of time that I spent when I had three or four.
speaker-0: That's actually a lot of time that you that you are saving, right? ⁓ but if you had to put a number on it on how much time or even money will you say they save you every month? What number would be?
speaker-1: I guess to apply a multiplier would probably be forty, fifty hours a week ⁓ with the number of properties that I have now compared to the 10 or so hours a week. But I think that it's a little bit more complex than just the number of hours because the unsustainability of the forty to fifty hours a week is not so much the amount of time, but it's that there are certain time windows throughout the day where I e even with the automations, we get a rush of guest questions around check-in time, around checkout time during the turnover window. And if I had to be managing that at the same time as manually inputting all the guest data or manually getting them to sign contracts, or manually adding codes to locks, ⁓ I wouldn't be able to do it at all. Just because it gets compressed into such ⁓ small time windows. So The flexibility that it gives me is that ⁓ since so many of the ⁓ of of of the high concentration tasks are ⁓ automated, it spaces it out throughout the day. And if there's an actual guest issue that I need to hyperfocus on, ⁓ I have time to do it now, as opposed to worrying in the back of my head whether or not this guy is able to get into the house because the lock didn't get programmed correctly or or something of that sort.
speaker-0: Yeah, sure. Okay, great. So will you say that this time you are saving and all this automation you are implementing has allowed you to grow your portfolio without growing, for example, your team?
speaker-1: ⁓ for sure. so I I only have one manager at every location. Actually I would say I only have one manager in every time zone. ⁓ I have one manager in Denver and we split shifts. So I I take what would be the evening in Denver because I'm I'm awake during that time here ⁓ in Europe, and then she takes the morning and we have a little bit of overlap, which very conveniently because of our time zones is during the turnover window. And she also manages the the cleaning team ⁓ which are ⁓ a third party. ⁓ and we have times where we sync and we review the ⁓ the ⁓ feedback that's given after ⁓ turnovers to see if there's any issues we have to deal with. And then ⁓ for Europe, I do that all ⁓ myself ⁓ with a little bit of help from my ⁓ spouse sometimes. But for example, in in in the Madrid property Because of the automations ⁓ and some some other ⁓ some other automations that I've designed on the side, I don't have anyone on the ground other than a family member for emergencies. So ⁓ with that model, it allows me to to ⁓ I I could expand relatively quickly ⁓ as long as there's someone that can be online in the time zone where the property is.
speaker-0: Wow, that's that's interesting. And thanks for sharing. I think Patrick, you you have more questions. Yes. Because I'm a big Italy fan, ⁓ as you might know as well. So what it would could be very interesting as well, like from our like viewers as well, in our listeners. can you walk us through like a typical example? I think the brand you have in ⁓ Italy is like ⁓ very interesting to share. From the time like a guest checks in to a check check ⁓ guest checks out as well. So what Which tool comes into place at which time? I think that could be a very nice real time example, let's say.
speaker-1: Well I'd back it up a little bit more too. So from from the time that a guest actually makes a reservation, you have Hospitable and Checking come on the scene. ⁓ So ⁓ even before a guest makes a reservation, when they make ⁓ inquiries, of course, Hospitable has automated messaging that that responds to them, which is crucial for maintaining response rates. ⁓ different platforms have different algorithmic weights to response times, but they all give priority to quick responses. ⁓ they usually ask ⁓ a similar set of questions like you know what that they could probably find on the listing, but they don't look. ⁓ so I have a lot of them programmed already. and ⁓ some some of them are not able to book instantly, which then allows me to ⁓ to add security deposits in advance if I need to. ⁓ I was just discussing, Valerie, ⁓ a really useful feature that Check In has that allows me to turn on and turn off the security deposit requirement for individual booking channels. And the ⁓ guest profile for different booking channels varies. I found that for example, booking.com guests are expecting a little bit more of a hotel experience. As such, they are not, I guess, like as culturally integrated into the home sharing experience. So
speaker-2: The idea of
speaker-1: of of house rules and you know gas restrictions and how to behave if you're staying in ⁓ in a residential property ⁓ isn't as familiar to them. So ⁓ but fortunately they are familiar with giving their credit card information for you know tourist tax and a security deposit. ⁓ and the security deposit is a really good anchor to, you know, I have your money now, read the contract, make sure you understand w how you you know how the how this experience is going to go. ⁓ so I always take a security deposit from from booking.com guest, but then sometimes I take it from Airbnb guests when they don't have reviews or if they have somewhat of a negative review. so I'm able to turn that on in check-in before they book. So ⁓ so to start with the first step before they book, I I assess whether the the the the risk level of the guest and I determine whether or not ⁓ I want to apply some of these features.
speaker-2: And then when they do book.
speaker-1: ⁓ possible and check-in have ⁓ the integration ⁓ allows check-in to create a custom link that ⁓ gets embedded in the welcome message for the guest. ⁓ and then it also I I believe sends them an email, depending on which platform, whether or not a real email is available, that gives them instructions on the information they need to provide for ⁓ for the guest registration. And then sometimes like tourist tax collection. ⁓ then a couple days after, depending on on how far out they make the reservation, ⁓ I also ⁓ send them information ⁓ about the area, ⁓ how to get to the rental unit from the nearest train station or the nearest airports, parking information. a lot of times they ask the same question about availability of parking or ⁓ whether or not early or late check-in is available, whether or not they can check in after hours, ⁓ because they're not always clear that it's a self-check-in process. And all these questions are automatically answered by hospitable. ⁓ and it it it probably catches the context of the question correctly, you know, eighty-five, ninety percent of the time. And then the answer always says, you know, if that's not what you were asking, I'll get back to you a moment. So it it it makes sure that ⁓ it catches the guests as soon as they they message Chano so they can know that we're paying attention. and ⁓ and that we're ready to give them more information ⁓ whenever they need it. did you have any questions or comments on that before I go through to the
speaker-0: No, this is perfect. No really
speaker-1: Okay. No. ⁓
speaker-0: No, no, no, no, it's absolutely fantastic. Thank you so much for walking through because I think a lot of our hosts go through the same process as well. And I feel like the ability to make it as easy as possible for the guests to check in is one of the first big steps as well. To basically because you open your door to your property as well. And we talked about it also like in another meeting about the experience is really one of the most important things as well. But if you because we heard a lot about like verification, guest com ⁓ guest communication as well, but Going really to like specifically to check in, what is like the most rely ⁓ which tool do you ⁓ rely most on check in as well? Is it really the guest online check in, the guest verification, legal compliance? If you can like point it out, I think that would be very, very helpful.
speaker-1: So legal compliance is the is definitely the feature that I rely on the most because one, it gives guests ⁓ a a higher level of confidence when they're providing their personal information to a validated third party with a well designed website with you know the proper encryption ⁓ compared to many other experiences where hosts are asking them to send photos of their identity documents ⁓ through the ⁓ through the chat, particularly on Airbnb. ⁓ something which I I think ⁓ Europeans are a little bit more ⁓ familiar with the process of of identity verification. ⁓ Americans and ⁓ some other ⁓ nationalities are are are a little bit more hesitant to to to share this information. So they're ⁓ it gives them a lot more confidence when they when they see that we're using a a reputable third party, ⁓ which is something that I put in the message ⁓ that we we use, like we partner with this reputable third party to collect this ⁓ this sensitive information securely. I I I never had very much resistance to it before, but ever since ⁓ introducing ⁓ check-in into my flow, ⁓ I I haven't had any any guests have any security concerns about about providing this data. ⁓ and then of course for ⁓ the the the second most important thing that I use checking for is is the tourist tax collection. Yeah. ⁓ for some reason, booking.com will not collect tourist tax. It'll itemize it on on the reservation. ⁓ but it will not collect it. Airbnb will collect it, of course my direct bookings will collect it. ⁓ and I I believe Expedia doesn't collect it either. ⁓ I haven't had a reservation with Expedia, so not completely sure. ⁓ but if if we want to talk ⁓ money, not being able to ⁓ collect it through check-in was a significant cost because I would have to either be present physically to get cash and to give a receipt, which technically has to have a legal stamp that costs two euro in Italy, which is crazy. or I would have to ask them to send money to a business PayPal account that we had set up, or a money transfer platform called SATUS Pay that's used in Italy, or I would have to have them ask them to send a ⁓ a transfer, ⁓ a bank transfer to my IBAN, ⁓ all of which are this They they give a sense of of not being particularly secure and make guests ⁓ pretty uncomfortable ⁓ some of the time. ⁓ not to mention it has to be all manual. And I have to discuss with guests all the options that are available and which one they should choose and you know why I can't be there physically to just take the money from them. and the result was that If it if it just didn't work out, we weren't going to cancel the gas reservation if they didn't pay the tourist tax. ⁓ so we'd just have to eat the tourist tax a lot of the time. And it's it's not an insignificant ⁓ amount, ⁓ especially when it's a as as a percentage of some of the smaller units that that that we host. ⁓ so being able to do that automatically in the same flow as the guests entering their guest registration data has has has really been a lifesaver.
speaker-0: Super super interesting ⁓ what you just ⁓ shared with us. For everyone. It's much easier for you, it's much easier for the guests. So Yeah. And also transparency is also one of the factors that you also mentioned before is also very helpful. I mean you mentioned also ⁓ Airbnb and booking dot com and also Expedia a bit. ⁓ but you also use our hospitable direct booking as well. So how is this working for you? And also do you get ⁓ a lot of bookings via the diary booking and also like Share a little bit about the direct booking experience so far from hospital. There would be I think quite a lot of interesting factors.
speaker-2: So.
speaker-1: ⁓ that's the that's the ⁓ I guess the the the load still and that's it that's the goal for all all of us that are that are in this industry is is to get as many direct bookings as we can as these platforms start increasing their fees. ⁓ as as I was as as we were discussing the ⁓ the interview process before this podcast, ⁓ I was refreshing myself on ⁓ the the the amount that some of these platforms take and recently completely unannounced Airbnb Not only well they did announce that they were increasing their their fee by half a percent from fifteen to fifteen and a half percent, but they didn't announce that in June they started to apply ⁓ VAT tax to that. So add twenty two percent to that fifteen and a half percent, and now we're looking at eighteen point nine percent, I think. ⁓ which is which is significant. ⁓ that it's ⁓ no, we just lost three percent of revenue from one day to the next without ⁓ without even Airbnb ⁓ sending as much of an email to to notify. ⁓ And then booking is is is even worse. Like they'll say, like in in my jurisdiction it's it's eighteen percent, but on top of that, they will charge a payment processing fee of I think three percent, and then there's a VAT tax of twenty two percent on those other two, and it's n always it's not particularly clear how the math even adds up and what it applies to, until you dig into it. And it it booking ends up being I think twenty two percent or twenty three percent ⁓ ⁓ of the total booking amount. So the ⁓ the appeal and the incentive for for direct bookings is is is really big. ⁓ so I I have my direct booking website with Hospitable. and ⁓ I get a few bookings through there. However ⁓ I'm I'm I'm looking at ways to expand this a little bit more. I've looked at some you know third party ⁓ integrations that Hospitable has to design new websites that might have some embedded marketing features. ⁓ I'm actually in in in talks with ⁓ Haven.
speaker-0: Right now, ⁓
speaker-1: Yeah, they have they have a great platform. I just had a meeting with ⁓ with their founder ⁓ two days ago and I have another one on Monday. and she's helping me ⁓ with how how to design the website and how to arrange it and then particularly marketing, because marketing ⁓ I mean as as as short term rental hosts, what we're not necessarily marketing experts and how ⁓ online marketing has matured from the days of of like a Google Ad Rank or whatever it was called, you know, twenty years ago to now and and how ⁓ it's integrated into social media content is still a a bit of a black box for me, but that's that's the next step that I'm focusing on. ⁓ I did ⁓ find ⁓ a good amount of success with just simply creating a Google Maps location. Linking that to the ⁓ to the direct booking website that I have ⁓ through Hospitable. and while it doesn't look like guests are comfortable enough to make the booking itself, I have had a few, maybe like one a quarter. What I do get is a lot of inquiries because the phone number is on Google Maps, ⁓ the website is on Google Maps. And so I either get inquiries through the website, but mostly through like WhatsApp messages ⁓ to that phone number. ⁓ And then of course they ⁓ I I I answer their question and then I I'm able to give them a custom quote through Oscar Bowl and then I create a ⁓ reservation manually. ⁓ but that combination of exposure is has allowed me to grow the direct booking ⁓ in the last two years to 10 to 15 percent of of all my bookings. ⁓ then ⁓ aside from the Haven site, I'm I'm wanting to see how I can advertise within the BNB because anecdotally, ⁓ and from from town halls that hospital and whatnot, ⁓ they're always pushing, you know, have a QR code in the in the listing, have marketing in the listing, and I have it all over the listing. ⁓ but I'm not sure I'm not sure exactly why I maybe I just need to relook at the way that that that it's designed. ⁓ I don't have a ton of feedback from that. ⁓ I don't have a ton of clicks on that QR code because I can track that. ⁓ it's mostly still one on one conversations with guests. When I, you know, I'll I'll I did a little bit of email marketing and and and then they'll reach out to me and have a bunch of questions that'll eventually end up in a booking. ⁓ but I still haven't gotten quite to the point where I'm just seeing direct bookings pop up on my calendar pretty often. So that's the goal though.
speaker-0: Yeah, absolutely. And that's why we also have our ecosystem with partners like Book with Heaven, also Crafted States to really ⁓ help you also like to push your ⁓ direct booking as well. Because as you mentioned, the fees are getting higher right now and also with direct bookings are ⁓ quite a lot of ⁓ cheaper. going a little bit back into the our lovely Europe where we also live and with all the regulations, I think Valerie has some follow up questions on that one. Yeah, so ⁓ let's get into regulation again. So ⁓ short term rentals regulation are changing super fast in Europe. So we have the example of Italy, Spain, Germany, Portugal. But how are you experiencing the recent changes, for example, in Italy where you operate?
speaker-2: ⁓ So
speaker-1: You actually alerted me to some changes recently when we were having our discussion before this that I that I'm gonna have to look into. ⁓ it's ⁓ it's definitely very Byzantine and ⁓ having you know a good accountant ⁓ is important. I I I I think the ⁓ the important thing to keep in mind is to have a good source, not only accountant, but you know, a sources like check in that that can alert you to these kinds of changes as they take place. ⁓ the the thing about Europe too is a a lot of it's a you know a lot of bark and and not so much bite, but if but if you do get bit, it's a it's it's a it'll kill you. Yeah, you'll get a hundred thousand euro rabies bite. So ⁓
speaker-0: David followed you, yes. Yes.
speaker-1: So you you wanna try your best to stay compliant. ⁓ check in, ⁓ actually I think that I was alerted to check in as I I I eventually came on board because I was recommended by a friend of a friend who was using it. But before that, I remember using check in just as a resource from their blog, I think, that was describing in the level of detail that I needed to understand what the updates to the regulations were. Because ⁓ like just in the couple years that I've been ⁓ doing this ⁓ in in Europe, there have been so many court cases that have changed how different platforms withhold ⁓ income tax, for example, in Italy or Spain. And then in Spain, the registration requirements for tourist stays versus seasonal rentals ⁓ and how they're being enforced. Of course, like it it's ⁓ like Barcelona is a byword for no ⁓ no short term rentals at least in the in in the near future versus Madrid is is ⁓ has has a different registration process which just got struck down by the Spanish Supreme Court, so who knows what they're gonna come up with next and ⁓ like the legal burden that one has to have to demonstrate whether or not ⁓ one is hosting tourists or not. So I I I worked with a lawyer to create a custom contract that asks for very specific information. and ⁓ so I mean that's been my experience. ⁓ And I Valerie mentioned some invoicing requirements that I'm gonna have to look into. and it it makes me feel ⁓ like a lot more ⁓ a lot more confident that ⁓ that check in has features that support this already. So while I think that the invoicing requirements it it they change based on the on the tax structure of of individual hosts, ⁓ if I were to need it, ⁓ I'm I'm I'm glad that it's there and I'm and I I would be looking forward to using it for sure.
speaker-0: Hmm. Super interesting. Thank you for sharing. looking into a little bit in the location freedom, ⁓ not the financial freedom, but the location freedom, because I live, for instance, as a German in Portugal. Manel, you live in Italy as well. So do you have like any tricks, for instance, for hosts who are like managing their properties? For instance, in Colorado or in Los Angeles, where you have the properties, like any time zone tricks you can share, ⁓ like anything you would like to share, and also like how to basically keep ⁓ keep up with all the work as well within the different time zones.
speaker-2: So I.
speaker-1: I I can't say that this is a rule, but I think that it's easier if you're east of your properties. it just happens to be how I do it. I f for example, I was looking at ⁓ at and living in Japan for a couple of years, ⁓ and as I was drawing out a map of of which time zones I would be in relative to the properties that I manage, ⁓ it would be a lot more difficult to manage the properties to the east of me in that case because of the overlap during the like the the crucial windows of ⁓ of check-in checkout and the turnover. ⁓ so I think ⁓ yeah if you're east of your properties is little bit ⁓ easier to manage. ⁓ but I think that the most important thing is to have time zone overlap between ⁓ the tasks that you and your local representative are are managing. ⁓ So you can sync during the you know a a two to three hour window. ⁓ And ⁓ for for me that's late in the evening. ⁓ I often stay up later than I normally want to. ⁓ but ⁓ like check-in ends in sorry, check-in starts in the US for me at around ⁓ midnight in in Italy. So I usually have a sense of where guests are at prior to the check-in so that I can hand that off to my manager in the in the mid afternoon. and then in the morning, I it's usually midnight in Denver when I'm waking up here. So it's really important for me to wake up to finalize reports of turnovers that have occurred. ⁓ messages that show that guests have checked in and if they have any initial questions that they've been answered. And then my morning if I if I do anything in the morning or in the afternoon, it's usually administrative work or answering emergencies that happen in the middle of the night in Denver ⁓ or or LA, I guess. ⁓ and then I always know it like clockwork, at ⁓ two or three in the afternoon here in Europe, that's when the guests start waking up in the US. Yeah. That's when they have questions. That's when they yeah, that's I I start I start answering those messages and then my team usually wakes up well, I mean, I don't know when they wake up, but they they come online at like ten AM their time and and and they take over. And then that window in the evening is when we overlap the most and when we're, you know, communicating a lot back and forth. Time zone overlap is ⁓ you know, is what
speaker-0: But basically.
speaker-1: Daily time zone overlap of a few hours that's to answer your question is the most important thing.
speaker-0: Perfect. And also like a question from my side, but also very probably interesting for all our hosts here as well. What would you say to hosts who think they need to live where their properties are? Because I I I can imagine a lot of people have the idea of living in Italy, in Spain or in Portugal. what tip do you can or which advice can you give them?
speaker-1: ⁓ well you don't need to. there ⁓ it takes a little bit of creativity, but there are so many ways to automate, not just with the platforms that ⁓ that we partner with, ⁓ but also using a lot of home automation ⁓ devices ⁓ that allow you to monitor the property ⁓ without without having to be there. Of course
speaker-2: There are.
speaker-1: having a camera is really important. If you're gonna be something that I learned the hard way. ⁓ if you're gonna be remodeling a place, particularly in Europe, one really big consideration is install a door that is easy to install a smart lock on. ⁓ yesterday we were installing the fourth smart lock on a door that we're now just gonna eventually replace because this door's probably been there for 500 years. And then ⁓ the Access to the apartment buildings was a tough nut to crack. ⁓ but there are ways to ⁓ kind of hack into the ⁓ the intercom systems. ⁓ Nuki makes a product ⁓ an opener that ⁓ that allows you to buzz in guests. And ⁓ it only works for analog openers. ⁓ so for if you have a digital opener. There's like there's tiny ⁓ Wi-Fi enabled switches. Like this is my headphone case, but it's probably it's probably a third of the size of this. And it actually hides inside the switch panel. and it has an open API. So I've been able to design a web app where ⁓ it and and thanks to Hospitable's open API as well, it pulls the guest information from Hospitable. it ⁓ it validates that the that you know. Time now is in the guest day, and then if they tap a button, it sends ⁓ an API call to the electric switch which buzzes them into the door. ⁓ and the important ⁓ the reason for that is because one of the recent regulatory changes was ⁓ Italy's prohibition on ⁓ key boxes. Now that's the way that it was announced on the news for clickbait. It wasn't actually necessarily a complete block on key boxes, and I still have some, you know, hidden near the apartment in for for emergencies. ⁓ But ⁓ in general, when I see a key box, I'm automatically concluding that this is this is a relatively new host, or they're not, you know, they could be taking extra measures to make this a better experience. ⁓ so the guess that I have, they don't have to share a key. I'm not worried about them making copies of my keys. I'm not worried about them having, you know, taking the keys by accident, then me scrambling when I'm not physically present there. and it I can track exactly when they arrive, ⁓ when they depart. ⁓ now with the thermostat feature that Hospitable has, I can have it turn on the ⁓ the AC on and off ⁓ when they're arriving, when they're departing. and it it gives ⁓ the access control ⁓ is Probably one of the most important reasons that I'm that I'm able to manage ⁓ locations where I'm where I'm I'm not present physically.
speaker-0: Mm. This is this is very interesting. ⁓ maybe I have to talk to my neighbors because I see o one of those old boxes which I scroll it a pin code in as well because I always like felt the same way. Like this is very
speaker-2: And the same
speaker-1: The pin code is the same, they never change it. often they don't scramble it after they're done. So I mean if if someone really wanted to, you you could walk by and and every key box that you see in a town and a certain percentage of them are just gonna be open, take the key and now you have access to the whole apartment building. So
speaker-0: We always go to the same place and there's always the same code ⁓ in the pin box as well. So that's a very well also like ⁓ remark ⁓ for our host as well. ⁓ and also Valerie, ⁓ looking a little bit ahead as well, I think you have some questions for Manuel, how the industry is evolving. No, so now looking into the future, a near near future. So as a host expert that you are, ⁓ where do you see short term rental management going in the next few years?
speaker-1: So I think that along the same lines of of what I was just explaining, I think that ⁓ the automations that we have right now are going to be improved because they're going to take advantage of agentic AI, ⁓ which is going to reduce the the the manual tasks that that we perform. ⁓ And I think that it's going to keep pushing the short term rental landscape into a professional offering. So it when it was I mean Airbnb started because people didn't couldn't find ⁓ a place to stay for Obama's inauguration in DC. That that was that was the impetus for starting that. So ⁓ it started out as a upgraded couch surfing experience. And I think that I mean, I may be dating myself, but ⁓ like generationally that that That perception might still be floating around to some extent, but it's ⁓ it's not anymore. and we're in direct competition with ⁓ with not just hotels but but also ⁓ like government lobbying that that wants to artificially restrict the market. ⁓ so it's not ⁓ it's it's important to to step up and offer ⁓ a more professional experience, which is really only possible with with the help of of platforms like hospitable and check in. ⁓ not only because it makes our lives easier and it makes the guest experience better, but also it advertises to the industry as a whole, to governments that are looking to regulate, and ⁓ to guests that that ⁓ have other choices. it advertises to them that that we're serious about providing a a consistent ⁓ high quality experience ⁓ as opposed to ⁓ either on one end a informal, you know, upgraded couch surfing experience, or on another end, thinking of it as a as a cash cow where you can expand quickly without really paying attention to it. ⁓ that that may have been the case with, you know, revenge travel after COVID or maybe a little bit before that, but I don't think it's the case anymore. ⁓ I think guests have learned and governments have learned ⁓ that ⁓ you know it it it kind of it gives a bad name to the to the industry ⁓ when you have hosts that that try to expand too much and just try to make a buck. ⁓ and I think that ⁓ that that's gonna get more and more restricted. So if if if you don't if you don't step up and do this professionally, I think that y you would either get priced out or or regulate it out or it just ends up not being a a good investment because ⁓ you're not able to differentiate.
speaker-0: Mm-hmm. Yeah, thank you. So ⁓ I'm sure that maybe we have some hosts managing five or ten properties watching us today. So what advice will you give them in order to scale their portfolio?
speaker-1: ⁓ so of course it's gonna vary by location and by type of property and ⁓ a lot of different variables. I think the most important ⁓ is to do the financial analysis and ⁓ make sure that you understand what a ⁓ a reasonable ⁓ revenue stream is gonna look like and do analysis on the ⁓ the biggest cost drivers. you know what what is it gonna take to automate everything? Do you have the time to be attentive to to to guess for for the parts that aren't automated yet? ⁓ is is the ROI gonna work for you? Because if you're stuck in a place where ⁓ where you're not breaking even, it can get really frustrating. and and then you you just kind of feel stuck and it ends up, you know, damaging the experience just for for the guests and and and for you. And I've I've have helped some some ⁓ clients out of that hole by just ⁓ you know improving the the quality of their offering. ⁓ but others ⁓ I've just kind of held their hand to selling the property and telling the, you know, we should probably look into something else. so I so I think I understanding the cost drivers and you know ⁓ and working to to eliminate them. ⁓ and then sometimes it just means ⁓ letting letting some little stuff go and and and focusing on on ⁓ on higher priority items. ⁓ but A lot of times it's it's making the extra effort to ⁓ to call a guest who's complaining, even though it would be easier to just go back and forth with with messaging or ⁓ not relying exclusively on AI to answer every question or ⁓ you know making sure that the feedback that you give to ⁓ to you know guests and clients and and and you guys ⁓ on on on the importance of certain features is is is clear and detailed ⁓ and that that you insist on it so you understand ⁓ the like the value proposition that you're trying to extract from them. I guess back to the question, ⁓ how how to how to scale from five to ten properties. Yeah, there's a cost there's a cost driver, understand the cost driver ⁓ and understand how you can standardize your service ⁓ so that as you scale, it's almost as simple as just adding a plus one. And then I think one last thing that I would mention is having the right person at each location where you want to manage from is really crucial. If I didn't have ⁓ the right person in Denver with incredible work ethic, incredible responsiveness, and incredible honesty to tell me when she's able to fix a problem and when she's not, ⁓ when ⁓ whether or not she's able to take on additional properties. ⁓ when we have to change our booking strategy because the cleaning team capacity might be ⁓ strained at any given moment. So we might have to you know accept some vacancies or take some longer listings to protect quality. ⁓ that kind of ⁓ that kind of competence and and and trust relationship with a person that that you're working with is is is really, really important, especially ⁓ if you're if you're trying to scale ⁓ outside of of where you are physically.
speaker-0: Yeah, absolutely. This is super helpful. Thank you so much, ⁓ Manuel for sharing that as well. ⁓ cool. This was it for our episode today and our little interview with Demaste and Manuel. Thank you so much for joining.
