Lead Like It's 2025: What Today's Leaders Must Add to their Toolkit

WEBVTT
1
00:00:00.151 --> 00:00:04.614
Hello everyone, welcome to a special episode of Future Ready Leadership.
2
00:00:04.674 --> 00:00:18.564
And as we do on this show every few months or so, we put together a compilation episode that has some of the highlights, some of the best segments and clips from some of the best guests over the past few months.
3
00:00:18.744 --> 00:00:20.565
And that is what we're going to be going over today.
4
00:00:21.106 --> 00:00:23.868
The first clip that you're going to hear is from Rich Deviney.
5
00:00:24.408 --> 00:00:31.151
He's a Navy SEAL and he shares the 25 hidden attributes of elite leaders.
6
00:00:31.851 --> 00:00:40.735
And this is a very important episode because every leader, whether you are a senior leader, whether you are a mid-level leader, or somebody who's just getting into a leadership role,
7
00:00:41.575 --> 00:00:50.382
We all face moments of high pressure and uncertainty, but how do you lead your team through those moments is ultimately what sets great leaders apart from everyone else.
8
00:00:51.002 --> 00:01:01.030
And in today's episode, Rich is going to reveal the hidden attributes that drive high performance and why they're more important than skills when it comes to leadership.
9
00:01:01.050 --> 00:01:03.172
So why are the attributes more important than skills?
10
00:01:03.612 --> 00:01:07.856
We'll explore why 90% of people fail SEAL training
11
00:01:08.496 --> 00:01:20.422
And what that teaches us about thriving under pressure, the role of adaptability in uncertain times and unpredictable environments, and how leaders can use healthy imposter syndrome to stay sharp and to keep improving.
12
00:01:20.862 --> 00:01:30.427
Rich will also share how understanding your team's natural attributes and not just their skills can radically change how you lead and create high performing resilient teams.
13
00:01:32.377 --> 00:01:33.818
Here's another good question for you.
14
00:01:34.338 --> 00:01:36.920
How do you identify overlooked top performers?
15
00:01:37.541 --> 00:01:43.805
How about uncovering potential leaders or individuals with the ability to close organizational skills gaps?
16
00:01:44.445 --> 00:01:48.028
And how do you do all of that quickly, fairly, and accurately?
17
00:01:48.648 --> 00:01:52.009
The answer, human intelligence from WorkHuman.
18
00:01:52.689 --> 00:01:58.570
See, their number one rated employee recognition platform is a unique source of rich, authentic data.
19
00:01:59.110 --> 00:02:05.692
And combined with AI, that data puts previously inaccessible insights into talent and skills at your fingertips.
20
00:02:06.192 --> 00:02:07.052
And that's just the beginning.
21
00:02:07.672 --> 00:02:18.295
Human intelligence helps coach employees on what good peer-to-peer recognition looks like, turning every good job into better engagement, retention, and even more data.
22
00:02:19.035 --> 00:02:23.498
And it helps surface feel-good stories that illustrate the best of your company culture.
23
00:02:24.098 --> 00:02:31.302
To learn how today's leading companies are turning AI into a force for good with human intelligence, go to WorkHuman.com.
24
00:02:31.662 --> 00:02:33.603
That's WorkHuman.com.
25
00:02:36.685 --> 00:02:39.688
So let's talk a little bit about these attributes.
26
00:02:39.728 --> 00:02:47.615
So it seems like the way that you differentiate it, our skills are the how-to aspect, how to swim, how to shoot a gun, how to run, how to do whatever.
27
00:02:48.176 --> 00:02:53.761
Whereas the attributes are more, would you say they're more mindsets or is a mindset different than an attribute?
28
00:02:55.081 --> 00:02:57.402
Yeah, I think it's more of a quality.
29
00:02:57.602 --> 00:03:03.385
The quick definition would be skills are not inherent to our nature.
30
00:03:03.505 --> 00:03:05.305
We're not born with the ability to ride a bike or throw a ball.
31
00:03:05.725 --> 00:03:08.246
They direct our behavior in known specific environments.
32
00:03:08.266 --> 00:03:09.767
Here's how and when to throw a ball or ride a bike.
33
00:03:10.127 --> 00:03:14.769
And they're very visible, so they're very easy to see and measure and test.
34
00:03:15.489 --> 00:03:17.710
Attributes are inherent to our nature.
35
00:03:17.750 --> 00:03:21.451
So in other words, all of us are born with levels of patient, situation, awareness, adaptability.
36
00:03:22.232 --> 00:03:28.054
Attributes don't – now, you can certainly obviously develop those over time and experience, but you can see levels of this stuff in small children.
37
00:03:28.114 --> 00:03:37.397
So anybody who has small kids or has been with small kids will agree with me when I say there are one-and-a-half-year-olds who are patient and there are one-and-a-half-year-olds who are inpatient.
38
00:03:37.417 --> 00:03:38.658
So there's a nature-nurture element.
39
00:03:39.138 --> 00:04:04.324
to attributes attributes don't direct our behavior attributes inform our behavior they tell us how we're going to show up to an environment so my son's levels of perseverance and resilience informed the way he showed up and he was learning the skill of riding a bike and he was falling off a dozen times doing so and then finally they're hard to see which means they're hard to assess measure and test but they show up the most visibly and viscerally during times of stress challenge uncertainty so they're driving our behavior at very elemental levels yeah okay that makes sense
40
00:04:04.924 --> 00:04:06.705
So let's talk a little bit about what the attributes are.
41
00:04:06.725 --> 00:04:11.329
And you group them into kind of like these, I guess, these umbrella categories.
42
00:04:11.349 --> 00:04:14.211
So you have the themes and then the attributes below them.
43
00:04:14.231 --> 00:04:17.073
But you had grit, mental acuity, drive, leadership, and team ability.
44
00:04:17.633 --> 00:04:22.957
Are those the attributes or are those kind of the categories and the attributes fall underneath those?
45
00:04:23.749 --> 00:04:25.031
Yeah, those are the categories.
46
00:04:25.091 --> 00:04:32.740
And a little bit of a spoiler alert, since writing the book and the work we do with businesses, we now have nine categories and 41 attributes.
47
00:04:32.760 --> 00:04:34.122
In the book, I talk about 25.
48
00:04:34.222 --> 00:04:39.348
But the categories are ways that we can actually comfortably bin these attributes.
49
00:04:39.648 --> 00:04:40.970
So grit is a great example of this.
50
00:04:40.990 --> 00:04:42.071
Grit is a category.
51
00:04:42.692 --> 00:04:47.736
A lot of people make the mistake of thinking grit is a singular thing, and they talk about grit as a singular attribute.
52
00:04:47.756 --> 00:04:48.756
But in fact, it's not.
53
00:04:48.856 --> 00:04:54.660
Grit is a result of a few different things blended and catalyzed and stewed together to create grit.
54
00:04:54.680 --> 00:04:57.422
In fact, Angela Duckworth wrote a great book years ago called Grit.
55
00:04:57.442 --> 00:04:58.863
She basically said the same thing, right?
56
00:04:58.883 --> 00:05:05.828
So the attributes that combine to create the gritty person are courage, adaptability, perseverance, and resilience.
57
00:05:06.628 --> 00:05:10.089
Same with mental acuity, same with drive, the attributes that create the driven person.
58
00:05:10.149 --> 00:05:10.309
Right.
59
00:05:10.349 --> 00:05:12.510
So so you think about the categories they just been.
60
00:05:12.550 --> 00:05:18.812
Now, I will say just because there are in those categories, they're not those attributes aren't exclusive to those categories.
61
00:05:18.972 --> 00:05:22.293
One could make an argument that courage is a good leadership attribute.
62
00:05:22.353 --> 00:05:22.513
Right.
63
00:05:22.533 --> 00:05:25.533
So it could go in the leadership category in certain cases.
64
00:05:25.613 --> 00:05:28.774
But these just kind of comfortably been in those in those categories.
65
00:05:28.794 --> 00:05:30.975
And it makes it a little bit easier to absorb and understand.
66
00:05:31.275 --> 00:05:31.535
Okay.
67
00:05:32.015 --> 00:05:35.576
So I thought maybe we could go through and explain what those categories are.
68
00:05:35.596 --> 00:05:38.476
And then maybe we can pick like one attribute from each category if we have time.
69
00:05:39.176 --> 00:05:40.857
Um, so let me just add the ones that you said.
70
00:05:40.877 --> 00:05:43.577
So we have grit, mental acuity, drive, leadership, team ability.
71
00:05:43.617 --> 00:05:45.738
What were the new ones that you added in there since you wrote the book?
72
00:05:46.958 --> 00:05:47.538
Oh gosh.
73
00:05:47.598 --> 00:05:50.659
Um, we have, uh, we have, uh, social awareness.
74
00:05:51.019 --> 00:05:51.919
We have service.
75
00:05:52.279 --> 00:05:57.980
We have, um, vision, um, social awareness, service, vision,
76
00:06:00.018 --> 00:06:02.580
And what's the, I have to look at my list.
77
00:06:02.640 --> 00:06:03.801
It'll come to me though.
78
00:06:04.001 --> 00:06:04.601
Let me see here.
79
00:06:04.661 --> 00:06:05.522
Well, we can start with those.
80
00:06:06.283 --> 00:06:07.403
Yeah.
81
00:06:07.583 --> 00:06:08.524
Social intelligence.
82
00:06:08.724 --> 00:06:10.085
Oh, commitment is the other one.
83
00:06:10.285 --> 00:06:10.545
Okay.
84
00:06:10.626 --> 00:06:11.926
Let me write that down here.
85
00:06:12.427 --> 00:06:12.647
Okay.
86
00:06:12.667 --> 00:06:16.089
So let's go through each one of these and maybe you can explain what they are and why they're important.
87
00:06:16.109 --> 00:06:18.291
And then if we have time, we can pick an attribute from each one.
88
00:06:19.312 --> 00:06:20.432
So grit, you kind of touched on.
89
00:06:20.452 --> 00:06:23.394
I think a lot of people have an understanding of what grit is.
90
00:06:23.454 --> 00:06:26.937
It's the, well, I'll ask you, how do you define it?
91
00:06:27.811 --> 00:06:33.696
Yeah, it's really ultimately the capacity to perform through those shorter term, more acute challenges, goals and effort.
92
00:06:33.736 --> 00:06:36.859
And the idea is they're shorter term, more acute, right?
93
00:06:37.199 --> 00:06:39.401
It's those things you need to power through.
94
00:06:39.582 --> 00:06:43.925
That's what grit gets us, allows us to power through those things.
95
00:06:43.946 --> 00:06:45.127
So that's how we define grit.
96
00:06:45.347 --> 00:06:46.268
Okay.
97
00:06:46.368 --> 00:06:46.948
Mental acuity.
98
00:06:46.968 --> 00:06:47.268
What is that?
99
00:06:47.288 --> 00:06:47.749
Okay.
100
00:06:48.422 --> 00:06:51.985
That is how our brain processes the world around us, right?
101
00:06:52.065 --> 00:06:53.906
So it has to do with our brain.
102
00:06:54.146 --> 00:07:13.300
The attributes involved in that are situation awareness, you know, how much do we notice about our environment, compartmentalization, our ability to focus in on something and block out everything else, task switching, our ability to kind of shift our focus points between different categories and contexts, learnability, and then discernment, which has to do with kind of our attention to detail.
103
00:07:13.620 --> 00:07:13.781
Okay.
104
00:07:13.801 --> 00:07:13.901
Okay.
105
00:07:15.061 --> 00:07:18.463
And the next we have drive, which a lot of people can remember.
106
00:07:18.643 --> 00:07:19.023
So drive.
107
00:07:19.043 --> 00:07:29.868
So if grit speaks to those shorter term goals and challenges and endeavors, drive speaks to the capacity to perform through those longer term challenges, goals, and endeavors.
108
00:07:29.888 --> 00:07:32.269
So what are the attributes that make up the driven person?
109
00:07:32.749 --> 00:07:34.010
In that case, we have four.
110
00:07:34.670 --> 00:07:37.612
Self-efficacy, which has to do with this self-starter-ness.
111
00:07:37.652 --> 00:07:38.432
I have the confidence.
112
00:07:38.892 --> 00:07:39.332
to do it.
113
00:07:39.352 --> 00:07:41.733
I have the initiative to get started and I have the optimism to keep going.
114
00:07:42.454 --> 00:07:43.554
Narcissism is one.
115
00:07:43.634 --> 00:07:45.455
We can talk about narcissism as an attribute.
116
00:07:45.475 --> 00:07:47.996
Yeah, when we get to that one, that's the one I actually wanted to talk about for sure.
117
00:07:48.257 --> 00:07:48.537
All right.
118
00:07:48.577 --> 00:07:48.977
Yeah.
119
00:07:49.017 --> 00:07:52.999
So let's just hang on that because the other two are competitiveness and discipline, which are fairly self-explanatory.
120
00:07:53.039 --> 00:07:54.059
Narcissism is interesting.
121
00:07:54.079 --> 00:07:56.841
And I was looking at this when I was doing the research.
122
00:07:56.861 --> 00:08:00.262
I was asking, okay, what are some really powerful human drivers?
123
00:08:01.383 --> 00:08:05.645
I was avoiding narcissism for the same reason most people do because I was
124
00:08:08.666 --> 00:08:10.867
But what I did is I got a copy of the DSM-5.
125
00:08:10.907 --> 00:08:11.988
I looked up the disorder.
126
00:08:12.108 --> 00:08:24.874
And in that text, you'll find nine criteria that if a physician can read those nine and say yes to five or more in terms of the patient, then the patient is considered disordered.
127
00:08:24.894 --> 00:08:26.594
So I read through those nine things.
128
00:08:26.875 --> 00:08:28.795
I'm happy to say I couldn't say yes to five or more.
129
00:08:28.976 --> 00:08:31.837
However, I was not innocent of everything I was reading.
130
00:08:31.977 --> 00:08:33.498
I was like, well, sometimes I do feel like this.
131
00:08:33.538 --> 00:08:34.398
Sometimes I feel like this.
132
00:08:34.518 --> 00:08:34.658
Right.
133
00:08:34.678 --> 00:08:38.780
So then I kind of backed up and I said, OK, why did I why did I become a Navy SEAL in the first place?
134
00:08:38.920 --> 00:08:40.021
OK, this was in the 90s.
135
00:08:40.041 --> 00:08:41.162
There's nothing really going on.
136
00:08:41.182 --> 00:08:43.003
22 year old kid.
137
00:08:43.023 --> 00:08:44.243
OK, obviously, I'm a patriot.
138
00:08:44.263 --> 00:08:45.084
I want to serve my country.
139
00:08:45.124 --> 00:08:49.126
But one of the biggest reasons was because I wanted to see if I could be a badass.
140
00:08:49.546 --> 00:08:52.208
I wanted to see if I could do something very few people could do.
141
00:08:52.348 --> 00:08:52.648
OK.
142
00:08:53.068 --> 00:08:55.309
Then I asked my SEAL buddies, why did they become SEALs?
143
00:08:55.329 --> 00:08:56.509
And they said the same thing, right?
144
00:08:56.529 --> 00:08:59.690
Yeah, they're patriots, but they wanted to see if they could do something very few people could do.
145
00:08:59.750 --> 00:09:05.231
So at that point, I looked up the definition of what I call generalized narcissism.
146
00:09:05.291 --> 00:09:12.172
Okay, the general kind of simple definition of narcissism is the desire to stand out, be recognized, be adored, be made feel special.
147
00:09:12.272 --> 00:09:14.453
Okay, and I can tell you with certainty that.
148
00:09:14.907 --> 00:09:23.071
And psychologists will agree every single human being on this planet at some point in their lives wants to stand out, be recognized, be adored, be made feel special at some point.
149
00:09:23.111 --> 00:09:23.311
Right.
150
00:09:23.351 --> 00:09:26.132
So it's a very, very elemental human driver.
151
00:09:26.252 --> 00:09:31.455
OK, so narcissism in general terms is this desire to stand out, be special, do something unique.
152
00:09:31.675 --> 00:09:31.955
OK.
153
00:09:32.295 --> 00:09:45.164
This is the impetus to some very audacious goals, whether it be being a Navy SEAL, being the best podcaster, being a top surgeon, or even being the rebel, wearing stuff that makes you stand out from other people.
154
00:09:45.204 --> 00:09:46.365
There's a form there, right?
155
00:09:46.666 --> 00:09:55.512
So the idea is we all have elements of this stuff, at least small elements, and they do drive us to some very audacious goals oftentimes.
156
00:09:55.532 --> 00:09:56.813
And that's why it's one of the attributes.
157
00:09:57.093 --> 00:09:57.613
Ah, okay.
158
00:09:57.633 --> 00:09:57.754
Okay.
159
00:09:58.474 --> 00:09:58.755
All right.
160
00:09:58.975 --> 00:10:03.441
And then we can get back to the narcissism one is fascinating because everybody always thinks that's a terrible thing.
161
00:10:03.461 --> 00:10:04.702
You don't want to be narcissistic.
162
00:10:05.463 --> 00:10:12.052
People like Jordan Peterson talk about why narcissism is so bad, part of his dark triad philosophy that he had.
163
00:10:12.853 --> 00:10:14.155
So we can talk about that too.
164
00:10:15.296 --> 00:10:16.178
Next we have leadership.
165
00:10:17.139 --> 00:10:21.383
Yes, yeah, leadership as a category.
166
00:10:21.403 --> 00:10:27.008
First of all, we have to understand when it comes to leadership, being a leader and being in charge are two separate things, okay?
167
00:10:27.429 --> 00:10:28.229
One is a position.
168
00:10:29.567 --> 00:10:30.688
Being in charge is a position.
169
00:10:30.888 --> 00:10:31.608
One is a behavior.
170
00:10:31.628 --> 00:10:32.669
Being a leader is a behavior.
171
00:10:33.129 --> 00:10:35.510
So in other words, we don't get to self-designate.
172
00:10:35.530 --> 00:10:37.011
We don't get to call ourselves leaders.
173
00:10:37.491 --> 00:10:39.252
That's like calling yourself good looking or funny.
174
00:10:39.412 --> 00:10:39.692
Okay.
175
00:10:39.772 --> 00:10:44.234
Other people decide whether or not you are someone they want to lead based on how you behave.
176
00:10:44.254 --> 00:10:48.516
And those attributes, those behaviors stem from very basic attributes, authenticity,
177
00:10:49.737 --> 00:10:50.518
and accountability.
178
00:10:51.178 --> 00:10:59.526
And we know, I mean, because we know when we see someone who's accountability, take for example, accountability is this thing is like, I own this, it's an ownership thing, right?
179
00:10:59.546 --> 00:11:06.131
And then whenever we see someone who's always pointing fingers and blaming other people, we tend not to look at that person as a leader.
180
00:11:06.512 --> 00:11:07.733
Okay, it's just natural.
181
00:11:07.793 --> 00:11:10.595
So that's why it's an incredibly important leadership attribute.
182
00:11:12.557 --> 00:11:14.519
All right, next we have teamability.
183
00:11:14.539 --> 00:11:14.879
Okay.
184
00:11:15.530 --> 00:11:20.991
Yeah, team ability is this idea of how we operate with others in a teaming environment.
185
00:11:21.231 --> 00:11:25.072
And I would say just like leadership, you don't get to call yourself a great teammate.
186
00:11:25.152 --> 00:11:28.212
Other people decide whether or not you're a great teammate based on how you behave.
187
00:11:28.772 --> 00:11:31.433
And those attributes stem from those behaviors are integrity.
188
00:11:31.573 --> 00:11:34.633
And that's do the right thing, okay, in the context of the group, right?
189
00:11:34.653 --> 00:11:39.374
Because do the right thing for one group looks different than do the right thing for another group, okay?
190
00:11:39.454 --> 00:11:44.735
Conscientiousness, which is this idea that you show up, you work hard, you're reliable, you're diligent, okay?
191
00:11:45.159 --> 00:11:47.240
Humility, that's kind of self-explanatory.
192
00:11:47.400 --> 00:11:49.340
Collaboration, also self-explanatory.
193
00:11:49.660 --> 00:11:50.361
And then insouciance.
194
00:11:50.401 --> 00:11:56.603
Insouciance is really defined as this casual lack of concern for what other people think.
195
00:11:57.063 --> 00:11:59.623
And why this is important is because this drives our behavior.
196
00:12:00.064 --> 00:12:04.005
Someone who's high in insouciance, those are typically your iconoclasts, those people who...
197
00:12:04.565 --> 00:12:06.026
They march to the beat of their own drummer.
198
00:12:06.246 --> 00:12:07.267
They do their own thing.
199
00:12:07.287 --> 00:12:08.988
And usually people flock to them, right?
200
00:12:09.008 --> 00:12:10.729
They're trendsetters in many cases.
201
00:12:11.729 --> 00:12:17.693
If you're lower in Seussians, kind of like me, and a lot of SEALs, you're typically looking around you a lot.
202
00:12:17.773 --> 00:12:18.493
And you're...
203
00:12:19.854 --> 00:12:24.298
you're modulating your behavior to some extent because you care what other people think, right?
204
00:12:24.598 --> 00:12:27.400
In the Navy SEAL case, this is like, I never liked heights.
205
00:12:27.460 --> 00:12:29.041
So skydiving was always an issue for me.
206
00:12:29.061 --> 00:12:29.622
I didn't like it.
207
00:12:29.682 --> 00:12:29.882
Okay.
208
00:12:29.902 --> 00:12:34.245
But I was always going to jump out of that airplane because I did not want to look bad in front of my teammates.
209
00:12:34.305 --> 00:12:34.426
Okay.
210
00:12:34.446 --> 00:12:35.767
I was going to do it because they were doing it.
211
00:12:36.067 --> 00:12:42.492
So my low insouciance was actually a powerful ally for me because it caused me to do things I wouldn't otherwise have done.
212
00:12:42.532 --> 00:12:48.016
Now obviously we can think about, you know, if, if you're extreme in any case, there's obviously some, some blind spots, but yeah,
213
00:12:49.117 --> 00:12:51.923
Where you fall on that just starts to help you understand your own behavior.
214
00:12:52.243 --> 00:12:52.484
Okay.
215
00:12:53.185 --> 00:12:56.712
And then the last four, I guess these are the new ones that are not in the book that you've since added.
216
00:12:56.772 --> 00:12:59.277
So social awareness, service, vision, and commitment.
217
00:13:00.411 --> 00:13:03.254
Yeah, so let's do commitment, okay?
218
00:13:03.274 --> 00:13:06.177
The capacity to dedicate oneself to a task or outcome.
219
00:13:06.858 --> 00:13:09.861
And those attributes are persistence, okay?
220
00:13:09.921 --> 00:13:13.945
A firm obstinance that I'm going to stay the course and I'm going to make something happen.
221
00:13:13.965 --> 00:13:22.054
Tenacity, which is more like if I'm doing something and I counter a problem, I'm going to be able to shift my approach, right?
222
00:13:22.074 --> 00:13:23.255
I'm more able to shift my approach.
223
00:13:23.635 --> 00:13:25.156
confidence, which is self-explanatory.
224
00:13:25.176 --> 00:13:26.037
I know I can do this.
225
00:13:26.537 --> 00:13:27.057
Optimism.
226
00:13:27.217 --> 00:13:32.341
And that's that, you know, optimism is, you know, kind of you're, you're in the, in the, in the optimal optimism.
227
00:13:32.381 --> 00:13:33.982
It's a realistic optimism, right?
228
00:13:34.002 --> 00:13:35.403
I know as I go through, I'll figure it out.
229
00:13:35.463 --> 00:13:36.023
And then patience.
230
00:13:36.043 --> 00:13:37.464
And again, patience is one of those ones.
231
00:13:37.524 --> 00:13:40.166
If you're high on patience, low on patience, doesn't really matter.
232
00:13:40.286 --> 00:13:42.207
It just drives your performance in specific ways.
233
00:13:42.247 --> 00:13:43.768
And so that's, that's the commitment.
234
00:13:43.788 --> 00:13:49.231
And then I'm guessing, so social awareness, probably the EQ, I guess, from a high level, we could think about that, right?
235
00:13:49.291 --> 00:13:49.952
Social awareness.
236
00:13:50.112 --> 00:13:51.333
Is that roughly how you would define it?
237
00:13:52.167 --> 00:13:55.291
Yeah, social awareness is exactly that.
238
00:13:55.331 --> 00:13:58.434
And what we have to understand is social awareness is a combination of things, right?
239
00:13:58.454 --> 00:14:00.837
So what combines to make the socially aware person?
240
00:14:01.077 --> 00:14:07.924
Okay, and the idea would be what combined, the attributes that combine in that are your emotional awareness.
241
00:14:08.125 --> 00:14:10.007
Okay, so how emotional awareness is...
242
00:14:11.747 --> 00:14:15.968
how cognizant am I of my own emotions and my own emotional control?
243
00:14:16.188 --> 00:14:18.889
And can I be cognizant of others' emotions in the room?
244
00:14:18.909 --> 00:14:19.629
Can I read the room?
245
00:14:20.069 --> 00:14:20.869
Different than empathy.
246
00:14:20.909 --> 00:14:22.970
Empathy is I feel what other people feel.
247
00:14:23.570 --> 00:14:25.731
Emotional awareness is I can read the room.
248
00:14:25.851 --> 00:14:26.811
You're not necessarily feeling.
249
00:14:27.531 --> 00:14:30.472
Extroversion, which is obviously we have introversion, extroversion.
250
00:14:30.772 --> 00:14:32.312
That's really where we get our energy from.
251
00:14:33.372 --> 00:14:35.713
So it has nothing to do with your ability to be social.
252
00:14:35.733 --> 00:14:36.013
It's just
253
00:14:36.733 --> 00:14:41.176
Those who are introverted, their battery tends to drain when they're in large groups and environments.
254
00:14:41.216 --> 00:14:41.937
So kind of like me.
255
00:14:42.197 --> 00:14:43.218
My wife is extroverted.
256
00:14:43.258 --> 00:14:44.158
She's in those large groups.
257
00:14:44.318 --> 00:14:45.739
Her battery fills up.
258
00:14:46.180 --> 00:14:50.322
But again, our ability to be social is not necessarily affected by that too much.
259
00:14:50.423 --> 00:14:51.583
It can be, but it's not too much.
260
00:14:52.264 --> 00:14:53.825
Influence and charisma, same thing.
261
00:14:53.865 --> 00:14:55.906
Charisma, this entertainment value influences.
262
00:14:55.966 --> 00:14:57.107
I move people.
263
00:14:57.127 --> 00:14:58.228
And then, of course, humor.
264
00:14:58.568 --> 00:15:01.830
Humor is really important in terms of being able to relate to other human beings.
265
00:15:01.850 --> 00:15:05.373
It's a very powerful attribute if you're able to laugh when things are tough.
266
00:15:05.786 --> 00:15:07.167
And then we have service and vision.
267
00:15:07.227 --> 00:15:10.529
Service, I'm assuming you just talk about the idea of serving others.
268
00:15:10.549 --> 00:15:11.870
I think a lot of people can relate to that.
269
00:15:11.950 --> 00:15:21.316
And vision, I think a lot of, again, people can relate to that one as well, is being able to kind of paint a picture of what the better future can look like and figure out how to get to that better vision.
270
00:15:21.476 --> 00:15:23.698
Would you add anything to those or is that rough?
271
00:15:23.738 --> 00:15:26.139
Yeah, vision has to do with imagination.
272
00:15:26.179 --> 00:15:28.021
So you have creativity, innovativeness, cunning.
273
00:15:28.041 --> 00:15:29.702
You have open-mindedness, curiosity.
274
00:15:29.722 --> 00:15:34.405
And then service is, yeah, in what capacity am I able to actually –
275
00:15:34.865 --> 00:15:38.547
do for others, you know, and you have empathy, compassion, caring, generosity, and selflessness.
276
00:15:38.767 --> 00:15:38.967
All right.
277
00:15:38.987 --> 00:15:45.151
So when you think about these attributes, because obviously there's a lot of them in there, uh, 25 and you said now you have what?
278
00:15:45.171 --> 00:15:46.392
41, 41.
279
00:15:46.432 --> 00:15:46.912
Yeah.
280
00:15:46.952 --> 00:15:47.092
41.
281
00:15:47.152 --> 00:15:47.572
Okay.
282
00:15:48.213 --> 00:15:52.855
So, so somebody might look at that and say, okay, well that's a lot of freaking attributes 41, right?
283
00:15:53.116 --> 00:16:00.000
So how do I, are you supposed to be amazing at all 41 and prioritize some over the others?
284
00:16:00.580 --> 00:16:03.802
Like how, how can people start thinking about these attributes?
285
00:16:04.062 --> 00:16:04.282
Yeah.
286
00:16:04.540 --> 00:16:05.663
Yes, that's a great question.
287
00:16:05.724 --> 00:16:07.829
So, no, we're not amazing in all 41.
288
00:16:08.351 --> 00:16:09.654
We actually rank...
289
00:16:12.108 --> 00:16:14.009
in all 41 in a certain order.
290
00:16:14.029 --> 00:16:17.832
In other words, we prioritize we're high in some and we're low in others.
291
00:16:17.872 --> 00:16:24.135
And so part of the things that we help with our assessment tools, we help people understand what their ranking attributes are or how their attributes rank.
292
00:16:24.175 --> 00:16:32.500
And so depending on what you're high on and depending on what you're low on, that starts to indicate and give you ideas and indicators of your own performance.
293
00:16:32.540 --> 00:16:34.942
But the idea is there's no judgment there, okay?
294
00:16:35.362 --> 00:16:43.164
In other words, the fact that you're high on these and low on these are, in fact, exactly why you've been successful in a lot of the things you've been doing.
295
00:16:43.184 --> 00:16:48.246
Because a stand-up comic with too much empathy is going to be a lousy stand-up comic, right?
296
00:16:49.206 --> 00:16:55.088
But if you're, say, high on decisiveness, okay, and you're low on patience, well, those things kind of serve each other, right?
297
00:16:55.108 --> 00:16:58.289
Your low patience allows you to make decisions a little bit faster than someone else.
298
00:16:58.689 --> 00:17:11.379
There are obviously sometimes some blind spots, sure, but you want to look at these rankings more in, okay, this is how and why I perform the way I do versus it's a judgment or a verdict on how I am or who I am as a human.
299
00:17:11.600 --> 00:17:18.045
The way I describe this real quick, Jacob, to people is I talk about – I say that human beings are like automobiles, okay?
300
00:17:18.345 --> 00:17:19.526
But we're all different kinds.
301
00:17:19.546 --> 00:17:22.088
Like some of us are Jeeps, some of us are SUVs, some of us are Ferraris.
302
00:17:22.108 --> 00:17:26.993
And there's no judgment there because the Jeep can do things the Ferrari can't do and the Ferrari can do things the Jeep can't do.
303
00:17:27.013 --> 00:17:29.695
But we want to lift our hood and figure out what kind of car we are.
304
00:17:30.035 --> 00:17:32.338
And the attributes allow us to figure out what kind of car we are.
305
00:17:32.358 --> 00:17:35.040
And it starts to help speak to our performance in different environments.
306
00:17:36.179 --> 00:17:43.822
Up next, we have Keith Ferrazzi, and he's going to be talking about traditional leadership and why it's dead and why TeamShip is the new secret to team success.
307
00:17:44.462 --> 00:17:47.523
Keith is the founder, chair, and CEO at Ferrazzi Greenlight.
308
00:17:47.763 --> 00:17:53.805
He's also the best-selling author of several books, including TeamShip, Never Lead Alone, and Never Eat Alone.
309
00:17:54.285 --> 00:18:03.548
And in this episode, we're going to be digging into building a challenge culture, which is a strategy that helps team address issues openly and hold each other accountable.
310
00:18:03.968 --> 00:18:13.475
We're also going to be talking about practical tools like monthly stress tests to identify project challenges early and energy checks to boost resilience.
311
00:18:14.096 --> 00:18:22.062
Keith is going to give leaders some clear steps to create teams that truly support one another and perform at their best.
312
00:18:29.400 --> 00:18:31.702
So what is this concept of teamship?
313
00:18:31.742 --> 00:18:35.864
Because to your point, a lot of people are familiar with the idea of leadership.
314
00:18:36.445 --> 00:18:37.906
How does teamship play into that?
315
00:18:39.007 --> 00:18:40.688
So I'll use this example.
316
00:18:41.969 --> 00:18:48.073
If we're coaching leaders and managers, we would say a good leader gives feedback.
317
00:18:48.985 --> 00:18:52.306
But a great leader can get the team to give each other feedback.
318
00:18:53.087 --> 00:18:57.328
A good leader holds individuals in the team and holds the team accountable.
319
00:18:57.708 --> 00:19:00.509
A great leader gets the team to hold each other accountable.
320
00:19:00.910 --> 00:19:03.090
A good leader worries about the energy of the team.
321
00:19:03.150 --> 00:19:06.692
A great leader makes sure that the team worries about each other's energy.
322
00:19:07.706 --> 00:19:14.311
What I see in benchmarking 3,000 teams, we've been at this for 20 years now.
323
00:19:14.371 --> 00:19:17.193
We started the business in 2000, it's even more.
324
00:19:18.374 --> 00:19:20.115
In 2000 is when we started the business.
325
00:19:20.756 --> 00:19:24.679
And our focus was the science of high-performing teams.
326
00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:32.442
I was radically infused and excited by the work the Gallup organization was doing by measuring employment engagement.
327
00:19:32.902 --> 00:19:38.284
I was excited by what Lencioni wrote in his five dysfunctions, but that was 20 years ago.
328
00:19:39.024 --> 00:19:44.306
And we for 20 years have been researching the practices of high performing teams.
329
00:19:44.726 --> 00:19:48.428
And what we find out today is that it's not just behavior.
330
00:19:49.087 --> 00:19:59.440
its behavior, its process, its tools, all of those things coming together make up what a high-performing team is, and that's what's laid out in the book.
331
00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:01.802
So is TeamShip...
332
00:20:03.318 --> 00:20:05.459
aligned with the consensus?
333
00:20:06.880 --> 00:20:22.467
In other words, like getting everybody on the same page, making sure that we're operating as a unit, that nobody's in particular taking charge, we're all kind of on the same level playing field, or how would you think about that concept of teamship?
334
00:20:22.607 --> 00:20:28.049
I love the question, because I could not be more against consensus than anything.
335
00:20:28.229 --> 00:20:28.550
Yeah.
336
00:20:29.670 --> 00:20:41.285
Too many people think about consensus as the need to take everybody's opinion in and ends up creating this mushy mash of everyone's opinion and it isn't bold.
337
00:20:42.126 --> 00:20:47.793
That's what people get fearful of when I talk about getting broader, inclusive dialogues to occur.
338
00:20:48.554 --> 00:20:58.005
What we have to recognize is when we open up the aperture of a team to engage, to challenge, that means that we're getting all the data on the table in the room.
339
00:20:58.466 --> 00:21:01.850
There's no walk down a hallway where the conversation really happens.
340
00:21:02.291 --> 00:21:04.193
There's no talking behind each other's backs.
341
00:21:04.734 --> 00:21:06.736
It's all of the data in the room that's
342
00:21:07.106 --> 00:21:09.027
so that bold decisions can be made.
343
00:21:09.047 --> 00:21:12.768
It still doesn't hijack authority from single individuals.
344
00:21:12.828 --> 00:21:19.411
It doesn't hijack individuals from taking a bunch of data and disagreeing with it for that matter.
345
00:21:20.391 --> 00:21:24.493
So what it really is, it's about squeezing the juice out of the team.
346
00:21:24.993 --> 00:21:29.875
You know, we have, as I mentioned, benchmarked over 3000 teams.
347
00:21:31.236 --> 00:21:38.904
And those 3000 teams, I would say that closer to 15% are high performing teams.
348
00:21:39.084 --> 00:21:44.789
The average team, way more than the average team would say that they're not meeting their full potential.
349
00:21:45.190 --> 00:21:48.112
I think it's four out of five teams say that they're not meeting their full potential.
350
00:21:48.132 --> 00:21:48.653
Yeah.
351
00:21:48.873 --> 00:21:54.337
And we have created a formula that documents what the practices of high performing teams.
352
00:21:54.777 --> 00:22:01.001
The other thing that I find about challenging about leadership is it can be awfully nebulous.
353
00:22:01.462 --> 00:22:05.704
Yeah, it's very conceptual and we get into practice.
354
00:22:05.905 --> 00:22:14.811
Nothing, nothing lands for us in our research until it can be an observable practice that's repeatable for any team to adopt.
355
00:22:15.591 --> 00:22:22.172
So, you know, the book is full of 10 shifts, 10 critical shifts that an organ is that a team needs to make.
356
00:22:22.972 --> 00:22:27.093
And for each shift, there's a clear set of practices that they can adopt.
357
00:22:27.673 --> 00:22:31.794
There's even a diagnostic tool for every shift to see where you are along the way.
358
00:22:32.874 --> 00:22:36.695
So we really wanted to make this a manual for a team's transformation.
359
00:22:37.355 --> 00:22:43.836
And one of the reasons I ask about consensus, because I've done this with a few different companies, in fact, even a few days ago, I was with a big organization and
360
00:22:44.930 --> 00:22:48.452
It was 11 of the top executives at the company were in a team.
361
00:22:48.912 --> 00:22:51.854
And then I asked them, and the CEO agreed to this.
362
00:22:51.894 --> 00:22:54.195
I said, well, can we all give the CEO a little bit of feedback?
363
00:22:54.655 --> 00:23:01.179
And the big piece of feedback they all gave to the CEOs, they said they wanted him to be less democratic.
364
00:23:01.339 --> 00:23:01.639
Right.
365
00:23:01.819 --> 00:23:17.272
They said, we want you to make decisions because sometimes you're so democratic that you want everybody's opinion and everyone's feedback and you want everyone's ideas to be heard that it slows things down so much that if we can't agree on something, we just debate things forever and ever.
366
00:23:17.353 --> 00:23:20.495
And sometimes we just need you to say, hey, this is the direction that we're going.
367
00:23:20.956 --> 00:23:21.957
I've heard everyone's feedback.
368
00:23:21.997 --> 00:23:22.377
Let's go.
369
00:23:23.918 --> 00:23:28.282
And it's interesting because especially I think in today's world, so many leaders want to...
370
00:23:29.763 --> 00:23:31.704
You know, they want everyone's voice to be heard.
371
00:23:31.744 --> 00:23:34.106
They want to feel like everyone's respected, everyone's valued.
372
00:23:34.186 --> 00:23:38.609
But that doesn't necessarily mean that other people have to make the decisions for you.
373
00:23:38.829 --> 00:23:43.471
It just means you listen to their feedback, get their ideas and suggestions, but you can still make the decision.
374
00:23:43.491 --> 00:23:51.136
And it's really interesting to see, like, I don't know, if we were to go back 20, 30 years ago, like you've been in this space for a long time.
375
00:23:51.476 --> 00:23:54.018
It almost feels like leaders at that time would have no problem.
376
00:23:54.896 --> 00:24:02.329
making a decision like a Jack Welsh, a Steve Ballmer, any one of those leaders, they would have no problem saying this is the course that we're going on today.
377
00:24:02.349 --> 00:24:03.631
I don't know.
378
00:24:03.651 --> 00:24:06.015
Does it feel like we're missing a little bit of that?
379
00:24:06.536 --> 00:24:06.736
Um,
380
00:24:08.198 --> 00:24:10.519
Ability for leaders to make that bold action.
381
00:24:10.539 --> 00:24:11.459
Yes, yes, yes.
382
00:24:11.479 --> 00:24:13.579
You know, I don't think so.
383
00:24:13.859 --> 00:24:14.960
I don't think we're missing that.
384
00:24:15.100 --> 00:24:25.342
I feel that it's still falling back on control and hierarchy and more dictatorial kind of behavior.
385
00:24:25.702 --> 00:24:28.743
That actually still is the mode of most...
386
00:24:29.423 --> 00:24:30.744
leaders in companies today.
387
00:24:31.525 --> 00:24:45.237
I think if you are spending some time up in the Bay Area with some of the startups or some of the tech companies competing for talent, that they might have actually gone a little too far to the left on that one.
388
00:24:45.878 --> 00:24:51.203
And I feel like a lack of, to some extent, a lack of accountability and a little bit
389
00:24:52.303 --> 00:24:53.204
too much tiptoeing.
390
00:24:53.584 --> 00:24:55.106
But let me take you back for a second.
391
00:24:55.126 --> 00:24:55.686
Yes, I like that.
392
00:24:55.706 --> 00:24:56.567
Too much tiptoeing.
393
00:24:56.607 --> 00:24:58.208
That's what I was looking for.
394
00:24:58.508 --> 00:25:01.250
So let's spend the last 10 minutes talking about some action items.
395
00:25:01.310 --> 00:25:02.971
So some steps that people can take.
396
00:25:03.051 --> 00:25:06.254
So they want to make this shift toward teamship.
397
00:25:06.354 --> 00:25:08.495
They want to put some of these ideas into place.
398
00:25:08.896 --> 00:25:12.558
Obviously, you have a whole book with tons of things that people can learn from.
399
00:25:13.119 --> 00:25:18.303
But maybe if we were to talk about, I don't know, three practical... Yeah, okay.
400
00:25:18.863 --> 00:25:20.524
steps for people to take?
401
00:25:20.705 --> 00:25:21.425
Where would you begin?
402
00:25:21.886 --> 00:25:28.291
Number one, and it's in the first chapter, we need to start redefining team.
403
00:25:28.551 --> 00:25:34.415
So I would have a team sit down and say, what are the five big hills we're trying to take?
404
00:25:35.436 --> 00:25:44.183
And with every big hill we're trying to take, some critical initiative, I want to know who are the most important people to the success of that hill.
405
00:25:44.924 --> 00:25:46.385
And it has nothing to do with org church.
406
00:25:47.202 --> 00:25:55.625
I want us to identify the eight to 10 people that are critical to achieving this product reinvention, this whatever.
407
00:25:55.645 --> 00:25:58.166
And it could be somebody in sales, somebody in marketing, et cetera.
408
00:25:58.786 --> 00:26:04.688
Once you identify that critical core group of eight to 12 people, that now becomes your team.
409
00:26:05.787 --> 00:26:06.147
Okay.
410
00:26:06.528 --> 00:26:08.689
Everything I'm about to say is a part of.
411
00:26:09.190 --> 00:26:10.431
And then there's a broader...
412
00:26:10.451 --> 00:26:12.132
So one question on that before you go to the next one.
413
00:26:12.152 --> 00:26:18.797
Would you do this quarterly, monthly, yearly, up until the point you've conquered that hill?
414
00:26:18.817 --> 00:26:21.439
Like how often does this process... Yeah.
415
00:26:21.619 --> 00:26:23.080
I look at...
416
00:26:23.260 --> 00:26:26.943
These are called building your wrap, your relationship action plan.
417
00:26:27.123 --> 00:26:27.384
Okay.
418
00:26:27.464 --> 00:26:30.726
Building your wrap around critical OKRs and KPIs.
419
00:26:31.086 --> 00:26:32.468
That should be done at least quarterly.
420
00:26:32.728 --> 00:26:32.848
Okay.
421
00:26:32.868 --> 00:26:32.988
Okay.
422
00:26:33.985 --> 00:26:35.828
around strategy, big strategy issues.
423
00:26:37.170 --> 00:26:45.044
The next step is with that group, you need to stress test on a monthly basis where you are.
424
00:26:46.365 --> 00:26:52.029
So the exercise I described earlier, where the person presents where they've been, where they're struggling, where they're going.
425
00:26:52.350 --> 00:26:59.475
And the team gives very candid written documentation around, you know, I challenge you here.
426
00:27:00.116 --> 00:27:01.016
Here's an idea.
427
00:27:01.217 --> 00:27:02.057
Here's some place for help.
428
00:27:02.718 --> 00:27:04.419
That has to be done on a monthly basis.
429
00:27:05.040 --> 00:27:06.321
And it doesn't have to be done in a meeting.
430
00:27:06.361 --> 00:27:07.522
You can do it asynchronously.
431
00:27:07.562 --> 00:27:08.783
Somebody could shoot a video of.
432
00:27:09.463 --> 00:27:14.865
the report, which is five minutes, and then everybody just opens a Google Doc and reports in.
433
00:27:15.345 --> 00:27:21.327
But that's so important that we collectively stress test.
434
00:27:21.467 --> 00:27:23.107
That's the act of gaining alignment.
435
00:27:23.147 --> 00:27:25.268
That's the act of calling out challenges early.
436
00:27:25.888 --> 00:27:35.191
So that's so important, particularly if you redefine team, you've now all got, you've got all your core constituencies, their eyes on this project in a stress testing manner.
437
00:27:35.611 --> 00:27:36.191
So that's number two.
438
00:27:36.231 --> 00:27:37.852
Number three is, and I mentioned it earlier.
439
00:27:38.954 --> 00:27:40.075
Do your energy checks.
440
00:27:40.715 --> 00:27:43.978
Make sure that the team knows it has to have each other's back.
441
00:27:44.038 --> 00:27:48.301
Make sure that the team knows where everybody is emotionally.
442
00:27:48.802 --> 00:27:51.784
And we do this exercise energy check on a scale of zero to five.
443
00:27:51.804 --> 00:27:52.865
What's your energy and why?
444
00:27:53.245 --> 00:27:54.026
What's bringing it down?
445
00:27:54.726 --> 00:27:59.230
And if you do those three things, I mean, the way we we've got 10 shifts.
446
00:28:00.331 --> 00:28:04.094
There's a number of shifts that are about the bonded and connectedness of the team.
447
00:28:04.920 --> 00:28:08.323
Um, and that's where the mental health resilience, all that stuff comes in.
448
00:28:08.743 --> 00:28:12.246
There's a number of them around candor and growth and feedback.
449
00:28:12.947 --> 00:28:18.991
Um, then there's a number of them around what I call a reengineering collaboration.
450
00:28:19.111 --> 00:28:24.796
Let's do 21st century collaboration, not industrial era collaboration, relying on a bunch of meetings.
451
00:28:25.377 --> 00:28:31.622
So I just gave you three different practices that would use, it would hit all three of those layers of the cake.
452
00:28:31.642 --> 00:28:31.802
Okay.
453
00:28:32.302 --> 00:28:35.405
But as I said, there's 37 of those high return practices in the book.
454
00:28:35.745 --> 00:28:38.788
There's 10 critical shifts across those three layers.
455
00:28:39.528 --> 00:28:41.450
And, you know, it's just a roadmap.
456
00:28:41.490 --> 00:28:47.055
The book is designed as a practical guide book for your team's reinvention.
457
00:28:47.534 --> 00:28:47.794
Okay.
458
00:28:47.814 --> 00:28:55.902
So then for people listening and watching, step one, you identify what are the top, you said, five hills that you want to take.
459
00:28:56.802 --> 00:28:58.244
And so who identifies those?
460
00:28:58.324 --> 00:29:03.168
Is this the leadership team, the team in general?
461
00:29:03.208 --> 00:29:06.171
Like who comes together to identify what those five hills are?
462
00:29:08.495 --> 00:29:09.155
The team in general.
463
00:29:09.315 --> 00:29:11.216
I mean, and that's where you use our tools again.
464
00:29:11.697 --> 00:29:19.120
So, you know, I would want you could either have the boss present the five hills and then have the team stress test it.
465
00:29:19.380 --> 00:29:19.660
Okay.
466
00:29:20.100 --> 00:29:22.101
Which is beat it up and give some input.
467
00:29:22.301 --> 00:29:29.025
Or you could have the team use an open process of collaborative problem solving, coming up with what they think the five hills are.
468
00:29:29.485 --> 00:29:31.586
Everybody does that asynchronously before the meeting.
469
00:29:31.626 --> 00:29:33.667
Everybody reads what everybody thinks the five hills are.
470
00:29:34.027 --> 00:29:36.128
Then we come into the room prepared to land the plane.
471
00:29:36.728 --> 00:29:39.630
and decide what our most important five hills are we need to be aligned with.
472
00:29:40.170 --> 00:29:52.179
So you can use, you know, two different tools to get to that, but it doesn't mean again, look, if you, you look at Elon Musk's leadership, he's, he's successful because he is bold and direct.
473
00:29:52.419 --> 00:29:52.679
Yeah.
474
00:29:53.280 --> 00:30:01.806
And, um, I'm not suggesting that this turns into consensus again, this turns into everybody's point of view.
475
00:30:02.777 --> 00:30:06.961
clearly, boldly, courageously heard so that a bold decision can be made.
476
00:30:07.001 --> 00:30:07.222
Yeah.
477
00:30:07.582 --> 00:30:17.672
And there's also this concept of like disagree, but commit where it's very clear that, uh, you know, yeah, that even if everybody at the end of the day, you might disagree.
478
00:30:17.692 --> 00:30:23.318
I still, as a leader of the team or company expect you to buy in fully and not sabotage me.
479
00:30:25.520 --> 00:30:26.461
Or the company.
480
00:30:26.481 --> 00:30:27.502
So I like that approach.
481
00:30:28.023 --> 00:30:28.263
Okay.
482
00:30:28.283 --> 00:30:29.784
So step one, get together.
483
00:30:29.804 --> 00:30:31.185
You identify those five hills.
484
00:30:32.066 --> 00:30:35.970
It sounds like step number two is on a monthly basis, you do these types of stress tests.
485
00:30:37.080 --> 00:30:39.901
Well, step number two was identify who the real team is.
486
00:30:39.922 --> 00:30:40.502
Okay, that's right.
487
00:30:40.702 --> 00:30:41.762
Identify who the team is.
488
00:30:43.003 --> 00:30:46.825
And then step three would be- Number three, you go through stress testing with that team.
489
00:30:47.285 --> 00:30:51.027
So you stay on track and you do it in monthly agile sprints.
490
00:30:51.087 --> 00:30:58.411
I kind of slipped in a little bit of an extra practice here, which is your work should be engineered around agile sprints.
491
00:30:59.092 --> 00:30:59.712
Ah, okay.
492
00:31:01.233 --> 00:31:01.553
And then-
493
00:31:02.166 --> 00:31:11.134
And then at the end, you make sure that the esprit de corps and the energy of the team stay strong with having that safety net of an energy check as you go through.
494
00:31:11.555 --> 00:31:18.060
So this isn't about putting together these big comprehensive strategy documents and presentations.
495
00:31:18.200 --> 00:31:20.402
And it's really more of a...
496
00:31:21.553 --> 00:31:24.276
nimble and quick process, but how do you... Amen.
497
00:31:24.756 --> 00:31:29.981
So is there a step in this process that comes down to like, I don't know, assignments?
498
00:31:30.041 --> 00:31:37.908
Like how do you break down the... Yeah, I mean, I'm not taking away...
499
00:31:38.973 --> 00:31:43.174
the authority structure and the, and the structure of where work happens.
500
00:31:43.294 --> 00:31:43.654
Okay.
501
00:31:43.794 --> 00:31:46.135
That your organization is designed around that.
502
00:31:46.575 --> 00:31:54.678
Once you have the big hills, once you identify who the team is, once you start stress testing, you know, the engineer is going to lead the product development.
503
00:31:54.838 --> 00:31:59.199
Um, you know, the sales guy is going to lead the go to market.
504
00:31:59.319 --> 00:32:04.501
The, you know, the, the HR person is going to lead the talent recruitment piece, et cetera.
505
00:32:04.541 --> 00:32:08.602
So you're going to, you're going to have your, your swim lanes, but,
506
00:32:09.781 --> 00:32:14.204
you're not gonna feel like you're constrained to them.
507
00:32:14.244 --> 00:32:23.651
These days, it feels like there isn't much good to go around in the world of work, but WorkHuman knows when we celebrate the good in each of us, we bring out the best in all of us.
508
00:32:24.211 --> 00:32:29.194
It's why they created the world's number one employee recognition platform, and they didn't stop there.
509
00:32:29.755 --> 00:32:38.281
Combining rich recognition data with AI to create human intelligence so you can get uniquely good insights into performance, skills, engagement, and more.
510
00:32:38.921 --> 00:32:51.793
To learn more about how you can join their force for good, go to workhuman.com or check out their own podcast, How We Work, which explores the trends, issues, relationships, and experiences that shape our workplaces.
511
00:32:53.180 --> 00:32:54.721
Next up, we have Dan Priest.
512
00:32:55.181 --> 00:32:59.882
He is the chief AI officer of PWC in the United States.
513
00:33:00.002 --> 00:33:04.724
And in the episode with Dan, we talked about, is AI going to take over the world?
514
00:33:05.384 --> 00:33:07.665
Dan says, not so fast.
515
00:33:08.245 --> 00:33:12.127
So AI is moving faster than most leaders can actually keep up.
516
00:33:12.607 --> 00:33:15.548
But if you're not leveraging it, you're already behind.
517
00:33:16.188 --> 00:33:20.430
But the challenge is that AI adoption is not as simple as plugging in a new tech.
518
00:33:20.970 --> 00:33:31.239
And while some companies are already using it to outpace their competitors, others are stuck in analysis paralysis, not sure how to implement AI or what to do with it.
519
00:33:31.600 --> 00:33:41.689
So we're going to be talking about all of that in this segment, learn why AI has moved from a technical tool to a business strategy driver, how companies can avoid the biggest AI adoption mistakes,
520
00:33:42.169 --> 00:33:51.218
the critical role of responsible AI governance, and why understanding AI's human impact is just as important as its technical capabilities.
521
00:33:51.759 --> 00:34:00.567
I hope you enjoy today's very special episode of Future Ready Leadership, again with our three guests, Rich Deviney, Keith Ferrazzi, and Dan Priest.
522
00:34:00.828 --> 00:34:01.128
Enjoy.
523
00:34:08.696 --> 00:34:16.198
Let's talk a little bit about the state of AI, because, you know, people who are following the news probably are familiar with ChatGPT.
524
00:34:16.238 --> 00:34:18.138
There's a new version of that that's coming out.
525
00:34:18.578 --> 00:34:21.699
You know, ChatGPT 5 is supposed to be rumored to be around the corner.
526
00:34:21.719 --> 00:34:23.040
We're talking about DeepSeek.
527
00:34:24.060 --> 00:34:25.560
We're talking about all this stuff out there.
528
00:34:25.780 --> 00:34:31.622
And I think a lot of people are just wondering, how advanced are we with AI really?
529
00:34:32.102 --> 00:34:35.463
Like, what are these capabilities truly?
530
00:34:35.603 --> 00:34:35.983
Is it...
531
00:34:36.782 --> 00:34:42.364
hype because we've been talking about AI for years and it's never kind of gotten to the point where a lot of people thought.
532
00:34:43.284 --> 00:34:47.225
And so at least I find a lot of business leaders are thinking, is it really different this time?
533
00:34:47.285 --> 00:34:48.506
Is it just kind of the same?
534
00:34:48.646 --> 00:34:59.089
So where, you know, when you're talking to a lot of leaders and organizations who are asking you these questions about AI, what are you telling them as far as where we are and the progress we've made and where we're going?
535
00:35:00.778 --> 00:35:04.259
So certainly it's hyped.
536
00:35:04.379 --> 00:35:17.441
Certainly there is hype about AI, but there's a reality to it too that is foundational and industrial strength and ready for prime time.
537
00:35:17.521 --> 00:35:26.043
And there's a lot of proof points out there now that confirm that.
538
00:35:26.823 --> 00:35:30.524
But we talk about a jagged frontier, meaning...
539
00:35:31.435 --> 00:35:37.717
Um, AI is not monolithic and it's better suited for certain use cases than others.
540
00:35:38.057 --> 00:35:42.559
Like it's not a, a perfectly uniform, um, innovation frontier.
541
00:35:42.619 --> 00:35:50.562
It's, it's jagged and you have to kind of know, um, what use cases lend themselves nicely to AI.
542
00:35:52.430 --> 00:35:58.395
And then you have to invest in developing the AI capabilities for others.
543
00:35:58.655 --> 00:36:01.237
And it does take an investment.
544
00:36:01.257 --> 00:36:03.038
It takes some of your best talent.
545
00:36:03.098 --> 00:36:09.463
It takes perseverance, engineering know-how, business know-how.
546
00:36:10.023 --> 00:36:19.090
These are big industrialized problems that we're solving and it takes the best of us to come up with the right solutions.
547
00:36:19.150 --> 00:36:20.271
The technology is good.
548
00:36:20.711 --> 00:36:21.472
I am telling you like.
549
00:36:22.749 --> 00:36:23.289
You're right.
550
00:36:23.389 --> 00:36:28.515
It feels like an overnight sensation that was 70 years in the making.
551
00:36:30.337 --> 00:36:32.880
The technology is good, though.
552
00:36:32.900 --> 00:36:38.246
And I would say from a leadership perspective, it's...
553
00:36:39.379 --> 00:36:53.322
We each need our aha moment to give us conviction that the technology is good and it is ready and you can build reliable capabilities on it and with it.
554
00:36:54.202 --> 00:37:07.206
And so, you know, I have my aha moments both personally and professionally with AI that give me conviction that, you know, we're making a big investment that will pay off.
555
00:37:09.585 --> 00:37:11.966
And the technology is also getting better.
556
00:37:12.486 --> 00:37:16.808
You know, what it is today is good.
557
00:37:17.309 --> 00:37:19.850
And what it will be tomorrow is even better.
558
00:37:19.870 --> 00:37:26.153
And the acceleration of this wave of AI is stunning.
559
00:37:26.413 --> 00:37:28.054
It's going so very fast.
560
00:37:28.974 --> 00:37:32.496
And that has people in business and leadership implications too.
561
00:37:34.117 --> 00:37:35.378
Yeah.
562
00:37:35.398 --> 00:37:40.101
So where are we, do you think, kind of in the state of AI as far as capabilities?
563
00:37:40.121 --> 00:37:43.543
Because you were mentioning that there are some real approved points as well.
564
00:37:44.184 --> 00:37:51.989
Are there any like cool examples or case studies or stories that come to mind of how organizations are using AI that's really making an impact?
565
00:37:53.431 --> 00:38:00.440
You know, a lot of people think of something like chat GPT, it'll write something for you, it'll, you know, answer questions for you, it'll make some images for you.
566
00:38:01.521 --> 00:38:05.186
But the implications, I think, especially in the business world, go far, far deeper.
567
00:38:05.306 --> 00:38:09.812
So what are you seeing as far as how companies are really using AI to make a difference?
568
00:38:09.832 --> 00:38:11.273
Do any cool things come to mind?
569
00:38:12.259 --> 00:38:12.519
Sure.
570
00:38:12.999 --> 00:38:21.163
So we just did a CEO survey and the results suggest those proof points are real.
571
00:38:21.223 --> 00:38:30.587
So over half of the CEO surveyed said they were getting efficiencies across their business.
572
00:38:32.357 --> 00:38:37.398
about a third said that they were growing revenue with AI.
573
00:38:38.799 --> 00:38:55.223
We had done a previous survey where same kind of numbers, but just leaders talking about how embedded AI had become in the back office, in their workflows, in their front office.
574
00:38:56.442 --> 00:38:57.843
in products and services.
575
00:38:58.663 --> 00:39:09.768
And at that point, they were saying a third of products and services had AI embedded, which I was kind of surprised by, you know, that it was that high even.
576
00:39:10.448 --> 00:39:20.632
And so we did a, you know, a fair number of client conversations and, you know, had one with a leader of a cruise line
577
00:39:22.233 --> 00:39:38.901
And he was saying how, you know, AI, to our previous conversation, AI has been around for a long time in the form of deep learning, machine learning, and they'd been using AI to predict what...
578
00:39:39.917 --> 00:39:41.219
a cruiser would want.
579
00:39:42.321 --> 00:39:49.111
And now Gen AI, they were moving to Gen AI to not, to move past predictions into personalization.
580
00:39:49.171 --> 00:39:54.519
So you think about a cruise line, it's kind of a microcosm of the economy, right?
581
00:39:54.559 --> 00:39:54.920
It's got,
582
00:39:55.360 --> 00:40:06.144
restaurants, it's got shops, it's got hospitality, it's got excursions, it's got all sorts of things that you can personalize.
583
00:40:06.164 --> 00:40:10.125
So it's one thing to predict that somebody likes to shop.
584
00:40:10.506 --> 00:40:14.587
It's another thing to give them a personalization engine to say, I like to shop.
585
00:40:14.867 --> 00:40:19.709
I like to shop for luxury brands, and I like this luxury brand in particular.
586
00:40:19.749 --> 00:40:22.650
And then you can curate those products in advance of the cruise.
587
00:40:23.726 --> 00:40:26.547
to meet those personalized expectations.
588
00:40:26.967 --> 00:40:45.591
And so there's some really great use cases in the front office and then in the back office, the ability to use code generators at scale to take millions of hours out of the systems development life cycle.
589
00:40:46.031 --> 00:40:48.072
This is very expensive knowledge work.
590
00:40:49.217 --> 00:41:04.365
Um, that, that's another pretty powerful, um, proof point that, you know, skilled work, complex tasks, um, at scale, uh, across a lot of different, um,
591
00:41:05.484 --> 00:41:19.043
you know, different types of activities, functional specs, technical specs, code configuration, testing, you know, moving it into production, that AI could have such a material impact to see 30, 40% of the effort.
592
00:41:21.040 --> 00:41:24.421
go away and be replaced by more intelligence.
593
00:41:25.241 --> 00:41:33.744
So when I hear things like that, and I see like we've personally, like at PwC, we've invested in some of those capabilities.
594
00:41:33.804 --> 00:41:38.186
We've worked with our clients to achieve similar capability.
595
00:41:38.206 --> 00:41:42.747
We've seen it actually show up in very real business capabilities.
596
00:41:43.127 --> 00:41:45.068
That's what gives me conviction that this is real.
597
00:41:45.850 --> 00:41:55.713
It's funny, we were driving yesterday with some friends and I did an AI podcast where I trained an AI agent on my voice.
598
00:41:55.893 --> 00:41:58.874
And I uploaded, I think, like three to four hours of audio in there.
599
00:41:59.834 --> 00:42:01.274
And I let them listen to this podcast.
600
00:42:01.354 --> 00:42:02.995
And then I was like, that's not actually me speaking.
601
00:42:03.455 --> 00:42:04.355
They're like, what are you talking about?
602
00:42:04.635 --> 00:42:08.997
I'm like, that's, I didn't record a single word there.
603
00:42:09.017 --> 00:42:10.337
And I didn't even create the script.
604
00:42:11.493 --> 00:42:13.113
I said I wanted to chat GPT.
605
00:42:13.133 --> 00:42:14.414
It was a story about IBM.
606
00:42:14.874 --> 00:42:16.214
And so I wanted to chat GPT.
607
00:42:16.534 --> 00:42:23.276
It created the script for me, including different places where to put in sound effects and giving me links to where to find the sound effects.
608
00:42:23.836 --> 00:42:27.277
And then I put it into an AI voice clone tool.
609
00:42:28.097 --> 00:42:30.258
And I uploaded hours of me speaking.
610
00:42:30.618 --> 00:42:33.879
And it literally created a podcast platform.
611
00:42:34.669 --> 00:42:39.516
in my voice with all my intonations and mannerisms and how I speak.
612
00:42:39.536 --> 00:42:43.401
And we're driving in the car and they're like, this is, this is very, very weird.
613
00:42:44.142 --> 00:42:45.604
So how do they compare?
614
00:42:45.624 --> 00:42:47.367
I mean, you couldn't tell the difference.
615
00:42:48.408 --> 00:42:48.668
Wow.
616
00:42:48.749 --> 00:42:48.949
Yeah.
617
00:42:48.989 --> 00:42:49.770
You couldn't tell the difference.
618
00:42:49.950 --> 00:42:50.771
It's, it's, uh,
619
00:42:52.088 --> 00:42:53.330
It is pretty surreal.
620
00:42:54.051 --> 00:42:56.855
And I think, you know, a lot of people are always wondering, is it different this time?
621
00:42:56.915 --> 00:42:59.779
And, you know, I'm an optimist.
622
00:42:59.959 --> 00:43:04.184
I don't know where you kind of sit on that spectrum, but I'm definitely an optimist.
623
00:43:04.405 --> 00:43:08.630
I know recently JD Vance, our VP, was speaking at a big AI conference.
624
00:43:08.650 --> 00:43:09.451
I think it was in...
625
00:43:11.153 --> 00:43:11.673
in France.
626
00:43:13.275 --> 00:43:27.566
And he made big mention that, at least in the States, they're going to view AI not as a tool that's going to replace human beings, but as a way to kind of like augment humans and jobs and unleash creativity and innovation and protections for workers and all that sort of stuff.
627
00:43:28.167 --> 00:43:30.649
So that was very reassuring, at least to hear that
628
00:43:32.010 --> 00:43:36.692
the way that our administration currently thinks about it is through that lens, which I think is great.
629
00:43:37.472 --> 00:43:49.377
But there's also a lot of doom and gloom people out there who say it's going to replace a billion jobs, and we need universal basic income, and that we're only going to be working like one to two hours a day, and it's the end of the world, and, you know, Skynet is going to take over.
630
00:43:50.277 --> 00:43:51.137
So where are you on the...
631
00:43:53.318 --> 00:44:01.962
you know, fear, end of the world with AI spectrum versus the unlocking, uh, opportunities and possibilities with AI spectrum.
632
00:44:03.302 --> 00:44:11.026
I I'm an optimist to, um, unequivocally, I think there are, it's interesting.
633
00:44:11.046 --> 00:44:18.109
I did see some of, um, that, uh, speech that you're referencing and, um,
634
00:44:19.054 --> 00:44:38.275
It's interesting, though, that the thinking has evolved a bit over the last year where the emphasis on safety and concerns about the implications of AI have given way to more about the potential that comes from AI.
635
00:44:39.423 --> 00:44:52.296
And I think more and more people feel like before we get to the worst case scenario, there's a lot of really good things that we can achieve with AI.
636
00:44:52.816 --> 00:45:01.785
And we need to make sure that we're planful about the consequences of AI and the potential pitfalls associated with AI.
637
00:45:02.552 --> 00:45:05.353
and the human implications of AI.
638
00:45:06.013 --> 00:45:24.460
But there's just such an incredible value unlock available to us right now through this generation of AI that the majority of our clients are focused on, how do I harvest those benefits?
639
00:45:24.520 --> 00:45:27.061
How do I do it responsibly?
640
00:45:27.101 --> 00:45:29.442
How do I do it in a trustworthy way
641
00:45:30.282 --> 00:45:42.374
But the I do think in that's in that same CEO survey, by the way, still about a third of the CEOs talked about still needing to earn trust.
642
00:45:42.935 --> 00:45:43.455
Oh, yeah.
643
00:45:44.096 --> 00:45:44.336
Yeah.
644
00:45:44.696 --> 00:45:51.603
And so, you know, there's there's a there's still a ways to go.
645
00:45:51.683 --> 00:45:52.844
But I think most.
646
00:45:53.835 --> 00:46:12.162
people that I'm talking to these days are focused on how to get the upside, how to get the performance boost, how to get the productivity gains, how to get the creativity gains, how to use AI as a thought partner, and maybe a little less of the worst case scenario conversation.
647
00:46:12.402 --> 00:46:12.882
Which is good.
648
00:46:13.322 --> 00:46:13.882
Which is good.
649
00:46:14.323 --> 00:46:14.763
Yeah.
650
00:46:14.903 --> 00:46:20.805
I feel like the previous administration was much more, what's the right way to say it, more guarded of AI.
651
00:46:21.459 --> 00:46:29.584
And the current administration is like, let it go, you know, remove regulation, remove obstacles, just open it up.
652
00:46:29.664 --> 00:46:37.350
And I think maybe DeepSeek, China's AI tool, was a little bit of a push in that direction when we started to see it.
653
00:46:38.210 --> 00:46:42.333
But it'll be very interesting to see what happens over the next, you know, one, two, three years.
654
00:46:42.433 --> 00:46:46.576
Some people are predicting sentient intelligence by, what, 2027, 2028, which is...
655
00:46:49.309 --> 00:46:49.850
mind-blowing.
656
00:46:49.950 --> 00:47:01.380
I mean, the idea that you would have sentient intelligence that you can potentially access would be I don't know, the equivalent of like discovering aliens.
657
00:47:01.640 --> 00:47:03.842
So that would be nuts.
658
00:47:06.364 --> 00:47:06.945
To say the least.
659
00:47:07.005 --> 00:47:08.106
So we'll see what happens with that.
660
00:47:09.367 --> 00:47:12.029
But I'd say two things on that.
661
00:47:12.750 --> 00:47:14.351
One, I like...
662
00:47:16.464 --> 00:47:25.167
I like the fact that we're pushing the innovation agenda around AI before we regulate it too heavily.
663
00:47:26.347 --> 00:47:33.930
Certainly there needs to be some safeguards in place, but the DeepSeek...
664
00:47:34.990 --> 00:47:45.036
The DeepSeek LLM that stormed onto the scene recently was just such a terrific reminder of how important innovation is.
665
00:47:46.217 --> 00:47:52.581
And the way they built that LLM, it was innovative.
666
00:47:53.041 --> 00:47:55.563
And we need to keep innovating.
667
00:47:55.603 --> 00:48:00.666
We're very early days yet, and we need to keep innovating.
668
00:48:01.666 --> 00:48:03.608
Regulation has a cooling effect on it.
669
00:48:05.509 --> 00:48:06.531
on innovation.
670
00:48:06.611 --> 00:48:10.935
So I like that, that approach to AI.
671
00:48:12.337 --> 00:48:16.882
And then, you know, when you start talking about, you know,
672
00:48:18.832 --> 00:48:32.445
sentience and AGI, what I always remind people of is that AI is democratizing intelligence.
673
00:48:33.346 --> 00:48:36.969
AI is going to be the great IQ equalizer.
674
00:48:37.930 --> 00:48:40.933
So there'll be more intelligence out there than there's ever been.
675
00:48:40.953 --> 00:48:44.495
It'll be more accessible to people.
676
00:48:45.956 --> 00:49:03.130
And as AI democratizes and as AI becomes increasingly ubiquitous and intrinsic to the way we work and play and live our lives, that's not the number one differentiator anymore.
677
00:49:04.318 --> 00:49:15.942
So if everybody has it, it's kind of like who makes the best use of it, who combines AI with creative thinking or team specification, right?
678
00:49:16.002 --> 00:49:18.723
It's that going back to the boost, right?
679
00:49:19.943 --> 00:49:28.709
But when you look around the world today, it's not necessarily just the most intelligent person who succeeds.
680
00:49:29.250 --> 00:49:36.014
It's the person who's the best leader, the best collaborator, the most empathetic, the most creative, the most insightful.
681
00:49:36.034 --> 00:49:48.623
There's all these other qualities that, frankly, make us better humans that I think will get emphasized if AI really does become ubiquitous.
682
00:49:49.387 --> 00:49:52.828
Yeah, it reminds me, there used to be a tournament.
683
00:49:53.988 --> 00:49:59.030
They don't do it anymore, but it was a chess tournament where humans would work with AI.
684
00:49:59.230 --> 00:50:04.972
So it's a human with an AI agent, if you want to call it, against another human and an AI agent.
685
00:50:04.992 --> 00:50:12.014
And it would be grandmasters who, very skilled chess players, would have access to an engine like Stockfish,
686
00:50:12.994 --> 00:50:17.118
And they would play against another Grandmaster that had access to a chess engine.
687
00:50:17.138 --> 00:50:23.404
And it would be just really interesting to see how the combination of human plus AI would do.
688
00:50:24.325 --> 00:50:31.051
And it worked very well years ago when they did it because we weren't at the level of AI now where you could still kind of like trick players.
689
00:50:31.191 --> 00:50:34.373
the AI a little bit, it would get confused with certain positions.
690
00:50:34.413 --> 00:50:36.174
It like wouldn't understand certain concepts.
691
00:50:36.854 --> 00:50:40.256
Now they don't do it anymore because AI is kind of perfect at the game of chess.
692
00:50:40.976 --> 00:50:42.797
And so there's no need to have the human there anymore.
693
00:50:43.758 --> 00:50:47.600
I think Kasparov was the one who organized those tournaments, right?
694
00:50:48.660 --> 00:50:49.221
Yeah.
695
00:50:49.281 --> 00:50:49.521
Yeah.
696
00:50:49.541 --> 00:50:50.281
Yeah.
697
00:50:50.902 --> 00:50:51.542
Yeah.
698
00:50:51.562 --> 00:50:51.862
Yeah.
699
00:50:51.882 --> 00:50:53.083
I remember those pretty wild.