#53 - Learning to Live Before Time Runs Out

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Hello and welcome back to another episode of Engaging Conversations.
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I'm your host, Leon Goltsman, and I welcome you here today where we share real stories from real people, highlighting resilience, community, and the power of human connection.
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Engaging Conversations is proudly created by our team at Eco librium Headquarters, built around the simple idea of bringing people together and giving them the opportunity to share their own voice.
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I'd also like to acknowledge some of the people and organizations who continue to strengthen the communities around them, including the Bondi & District's Chamber of Commerce.
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Survivor's R Us, the men and women of Fire and Rescue New South Wales and other first responders, and people such as Greg Piper, whose ability to bring people together has helped advance important conversations across our communities and parliament.
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Now before we begin, a brief note.
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Today's episode includes discussion about serious illness, alcoholism, end-of-life choices, and voluntary assisted dying.
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George is sharing his own personal experience and perspectives, and this conversation is not intended as medical or legal advice.
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In our previous episode, The Conversation Before the Conversation, I shared an unscripted glimpse into the moments before George Perry and I formally began recording.
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Today, you'll hear the full conversation.
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George has experienced extraordinary success, devastating setbacks, addiction, recovery, entrepreneurship, faith, love, loss, and now the reality that his remaining time may be limited.
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Yet, this conversation isn't really about dying, it's about learning how to live.
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Because, in truth, none of us really knows how much time we have.
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We spend so much time of our lives chasing deadlines, achievements and problems that seem urgent at the time.
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Yet, often it's only when time becomes limited that we begin to recognise what really matters.
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The people we love, the courage to reach out, the kindness we show others, and the difference that all of us can make.
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Whatever your own experience or beliefs, I hope you listen with curiosity, compassion, and an open mind.
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Because perhaps we shouldn't have to reach the end of our life before we finally learn how to make the most of it.
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It is genuinely my privilege to welcome George Parry to Engaging Conversations.
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So without further ado, let's get into it.
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My name is uh George Parry.
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I started out as a um a migrant from England and came over to Australia.
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We lived in uh very poor circumstances, uh, and I was a very shy child.
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So uh for me reading was a a major component of my my early life.
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Essentially, it was to avoid social contact.
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And uh one of the things that that happened for me at that stage was that uh I did very well at school, but I was always the last one to be picked in team games.
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So I had great difficulties um in my early days uh with uh fitting in.
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You know, George, fitting in is something that we see more and more people uh trying to achieve, trying to do.
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Now, most people do spend their lives chasing success.
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Yes.
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You know, you're obviously reading your books, but believing that one more achievement, one more business, or say one more possession will finally make them happy.
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You have experienced both extraordinary success and devastating setbacks.
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When you look back now, what did success turn out to be for you?
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Well, look, I can tell you that for me, the success in my life was the transformation from the transactional fear-based George, the cool-handed George, trying to be in charge of everything, to a George who's focused on acceptance and recognizing that the only person whose behavior I can change is me.
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And so letting go of the yes buts and the if-onlies, I stopped spinning my wheels over other people's behavior and I started to focus on my own, and I realized that I was not in charge.
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In fact, I was so little in charge of my life, I can't control my next breath.
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And I needed to have a complete transformation of my life, and that occurred when I was 36 years of age, and I went to Alcoholics Anonymous because at that stage I was drinking myself into oblivion every night just to sustain the fantasy that I was in charge and I was in control.
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But deep down I was completely lost and miserable and had no idea what to do with my life.
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Everything I tried, I'd made lots of money, for example, and that failed to fill the hole inside of me.
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I mean you've had successful businesses and you have made a lot of money.
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You've certainly made lost, but you've you've built up a lot of relationships as well along the way.
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Well, look, uh, as it turns out, um I've I've got some health conditions which will shorten my life, and my cardiologist confidently predicted five months ago that I wouldn't be here in two months' time.
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Well, I'm still here.
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But what's happened is that that's been a very liberating experience for me because I'm I'm able to say to my friends, look, I'm playing an extra time.
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I won't be here for long.
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Uh, let's get together and share memories.
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And I've had 120 people reach out to me in the last five months.
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It's been wonderful.
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It's been a very uh inspiring thing to know that that people have so much love and affection for me.
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I just didn't know.
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I just did not know.
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Well, George, one of the things that really got me very excited to be meeting with you is I think you're an extraordinary person.
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A lot of people look at success and failures from one perspective.
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Yeah.
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But many people hide their failures because they fear how others will judge them.
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But you have spoken openly about those failures.
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Yeah.
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What have your failures taught you that success never could?
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Well, they've taught me that um emotion and uh love are far more important than material things.
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We use things and we love people, not the other way around.
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And and I I guess that was a complete transformation for me when I went to AA and finally, finally, finally, I surrendered the control that I had and handed it over to my higher power, which I call the healing power of love, and just let go.
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And I as I did that, well, I I'll tell the story.
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And on the 5th of October 1984, my drinking buddy Dennis came over and we went to the the Beach Hotel in Merriweather.
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And he said, George, I like your style.
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And I said, What do you mean, Dennis?
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He said, I can see what you're doing.
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You're trying to prove to your wife that you're not an alcoholic by being a perfect member of AA.
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But he said, We both know you're not an alcoholic.
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The only way you're going to prove that is by drinking like a gentleman.
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And I said, Dennis, that's a revelation.
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I can't fault your logic.
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And so we we we ordered a bottle of Horton's White Burgundy for a scientific experiment.
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We poured a glass each and tipped the rest of it into a pot plant.
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At lunch looking out over the over the beach at Merriweather, masters of the universe.
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At midnight we're still there, and there's twelve empty bottles on the table, and it suddenly dawns on me that I am an alcoholic.
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And of course, when I drink, I don't want to wake up.
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And I'm thinking, I'm drinking again, which means I'm going to die.
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I don't want to die.
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But I'm drinking again, which means I'm going to die.
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Yeah, but I don't want to die.
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I got a cab home and I'm lying in bed at two in the morning.
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I'm drinking again or I'm going to die.
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I don't want to die.
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And a voice comes into my head, try prayer.
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I thought, ah, come on.
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This is cool, Aunt George here.
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I'm in charge.
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And then the voice says, Yeah, but you thought you weren't an alcoholic, and now you are.
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Maybe you're wrong about this higher power thing.
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So I thought, okay, God, if you're there, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change.
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Now that's as far as I got because I felt this sort of hand reach in and grab the obsession to drink myself to death from me.
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But there's also that courage, you know, that could be applied anywhere.
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Yeah.
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It's a recipe for staying living.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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I mean, I love the the second part, which is grant me the courage to change the things like even if there's only small things.
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Even the small thing.
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But then the third part, which is which is what a lot of people miss, and that is the wisdom to know the difference.
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And I think that's what we will talk a bit more about that, especially the philosophy part of our conversation.
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That your journey has been about resilience, identifying those things, yeah, but also coming back and bouncing out stronger.
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Yeah, look, you know, we it during the the the heady days in the in the 80s and the early 90s, it was like winning the lotto every week.
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I had so much money coming in, I didn't know what to do with it.
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And we would just go on holidays and spend fifty thousand dollars on a an overseas holiday or whatever we wanted we could we could have.
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But I got seduced into a situation where rather than focusing on my customers, I started to focus on profit.
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And we s we we started to go into real estate, which I knew very little about.
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I'd taken on a business partner.
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The whole direction of the company moved from uh uh servicing a hundred thousand customers with consumables for their their newly purchased computers to using the cash flow from that to develop very large industrial estates which have got long-term payback periods of seven years.
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And that that brought me unstuck, or brought us unstuck.
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And uh and we were in a situation probably where we we went from ten million down to minus a hundred thousand in a five-year period.
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Well, it seems like instead of shifting your focus on people, you started shifting your focus on money.
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That's exactly what happened.
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And and I guess the universe paid me back.
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I said, no, that's not the way to go, George.
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I don't know about paying you back, and I see it more like I think he still needs to learn a couple of things.
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I did, I surely did.
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Yeah.
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I ne I needed to learn that um you get what you give in life.
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Whatever you you want in life, uh and I I guess I've learned this this from practical experience.
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As Ziggler says, yeah, you can have everything in life you want if you'll just help enough other people get what they want.
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And that's actually one of my favorite sayings.
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Yeah.
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The best way to succeed is is helping other people get it.
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Helping.
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Absolutely.
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Yeah.
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And and they will then, of course, willingly help you.
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Of course.
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They'll they will crawl over broken glass to to come and thrust money into your hands and say, you know, here's do this for me.
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Yeah.
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Well, George, you and I both know quite a lot of people in different areas, in different groups.
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Yeah.
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But one of the things that I found a lot of our listeners are either business people or going into business or know someone who's in business or just wants to succeed in their own thing.
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Yes.
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And there's that popular belief that it's not always what you know, it's who you know.
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But I'm going to take it one step further.
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It's not always what you know, it's who you know, and whether those people like you.
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Absolutely.
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You you do have to be a as the old Chinese proverb says, man who cannot smile should not open shop.
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Oh, well, that's that's another important one as well.
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Yeah, you you need to you need to be able to relate to people.
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And of course, that was the transformation that occur occurred in my life.
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Yeah, w when I went from my my childhood and my youth, where where I I was resentful and bitter, and life hadn't uh done me right, and I was unhappily married for one, and nothing I did, you know, I made a lot of money, but it just turned around and and thundered snows at me.
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I I I couldn't find any contentment or satisfaction in making, you know, ten years' wages.
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Uh when I was teaching, I I was only making twelve thousand.
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Because you're a school teacher.
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I was to me.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Yeah, but I was a hopeless school teacher.
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You're a great teacher now, I can tell you that much, George.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Well, thank you.
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Uh no, look, um uh I I I um I put that whole thing down to the transformation of my life when I let go and I let go of fear, I let go of self-pity, you know, resentment only rots its container.
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I let go of people pleasing, I let go of control, and I decided to focus instead on acceptance.
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If I just accept everything that that happens, then I'm fine.
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I don't have to get stirred up over Donald Trump, I don't have to get stirred up over the price of petrol, I don't have to be negative.
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What I what I do is I accept that and and then I forgive.
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And I also try to maintain a sense of humor and not take myself too seriously.
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Attitudinal changes which take you away from that sense of of deprivation and entitlement that that came with fear.
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But if you let love into your life and acceptance, then life goes smoothly.
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And that that's what happened for me.
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There was a a complete transformation of my life.
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Well, speaking of uh fear and love, and we know that that's almost as though they are two forces constantly competing within us.
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Yes.
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George, how do we stop allowing fear to quietly dictate our lives?
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Oh, well, by practice.
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We we we can stop fear from dictating our lives by stepping back and practicing and saying, hey, wait a minute, am I reacting sensibly to this?
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Am I reacting in a logical, Socratic method, or am I reacting with my gut and and I'm building a wall around myself to protect myself?
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Well, you just interesting you said building walls, which can become prisons sometimes.
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That's right.
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And of course, if you build them perfectly, yeah, they become your tomb.
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Yeah, well, and we talked about that uh leading up to today's conversation because I found almost everything we spoke about after it got me thinking.
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And this is why I'm just really excited for our audience to hear this podcast, because I think there's going to be a lot of people coming back to us.
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So it wouldn't surprise me, George, if you had uh all this fan mail come in as well.
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Well for for whatever length of time remains for me, of course, because as your listeners may know, um I've been given a um a short expiry date with my heart.
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But what's happened is I've just I'm not second guessing my life expectancy anymore.
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I'm just getting on and doing stuff.
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So I've done some of my assignments and the work that I took on and and my book was another thing.
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I uh it took me six weeks to write it because I'd I'd already read pre-written a lot of those stories in a previous book.
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Well, George, we were talking about a couple of things just earlier on in our conversation where we're talking about goals.
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One of the common denominators, one thing I I I see quite a lot of, yeah, is people tend to be so focused on their goals that they forget about the journey.
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Absolutely.
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The the the journey is the main important thing because the goal is not guaranteed, uh, but our our journey is.
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We we can guarantee that we will have a pathway through the jungle.
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And the the main thing I think is to find joy.
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Uh if your life is not full of joy, it's because you're not giving any.
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If you find your your life is joyless and bitter, and you you find no satisfaction in it, then it's because you're not helping others.
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When we give joy, then it's a it's uh it taps into synergy once again.
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It heals me as a giver, and it heals the receiver.
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Uh and this is the magic of of the universe, it's the magic of synergy.
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We are able to create something wonderful out of nothing, out of just ideas.
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Where when we're focused on fear, we're trying to hold on to what little we have.
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And it's it's dwindling away in front of us, and we're we're terrified of losing.
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And so we become very risk-averse.
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But what happened for me, because I had this experience of wow, I have a power outside of me that can restore me to sanity, it gave me a lot of courage to be bold and try different things, try big things.
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That's very Socratic as well.
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Yeah.
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I thought, well, what's the point in pursuing things that will only give me a 50% or a hundred percent return?
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I think there's some ideas out there that can give me a hundred times return or a thousand times the return.
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And I talk about this in my book.
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There are some nuggets of gold that we can pick up that will give you, your own personal life, a return of 200 or 500 to 1.
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And I've uh I I did that with my daughter's um, my daughter's uh B.
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I said, if we were to spend $250 on a hedge around the front of this garden, we would have a private garden room that your tenants would love to use, and it will add $50,000 to the failure.
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And sure enough, the bank agrees.
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Well, there you go.
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Every action has a reaction, yeah.
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Everything has a uh has a flow on it there.
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And I and I was very fortunate that I've got my hands on your book a week ago.
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Okay.
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I read it.
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Yep.
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And I and one of the things that I've taken away with me, uh and you've mentioned that walls do build prisons, yeah.
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I found that your work, it it it kind of creates a new connection.
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Love creates connection, purpose and freedom.
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If you have the boldness, you have to reach out.
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Life is short.
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If you sit there in splendid isolation, waiting for others, they will they will respect your request and do nothing.
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If you're you're just sitting there with your arms folded, waiting and waiting, waiting, nobody will come and visit you.
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They'll say, Well, George doesn't want any visitors because he's not reaching out.
00:20:39.279 --> 00:20:46.000
So for anyone out there who's finding life is difficult, be proactive.
00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:46.960
Reach out.
00:20:46.960 --> 00:20:51.519
Reach out to people and say, Look, I've got a spare hour or two this afternoon.
00:20:51.519 --> 00:20:52.640
Let's get together.
00:20:52.640 --> 00:20:54.640
Is there anything we can do together?
00:20:54.640 --> 00:20:56.559
Well, I think we we're in this together.
00:20:56.559 --> 00:21:06.160
I I think i everyone has has their story, and each of us has a unique value, and that needs to be brought out by the healing power of love.
00:21:06.160 --> 00:21:23.039
A lot of people feel defensive and scared, uh, and they want to put up a a barrier of appearances or possessions, uh, all kinds of status to to say, look at me, I I'm untouchable.
00:21:23.039 --> 00:21:25.839
Uh, but we're all touchable, we're all human.
00:21:25.839 --> 00:21:28.000
And uh we're we're brought up the same.
00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:30.799
We we we need to belong, for one.
00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:37.200
Uh we need to be recognized, and we need to be needed, wanted, and loved as human beings.
00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:40.240
That's that's the humanity that's inside us all.
00:21:40.240 --> 00:21:42.000
Uh we're not machines.
00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:49.279
And I've met people who who think life is a machine and that if only they got more money they'd be happy.
00:21:49.279 --> 00:21:55.920
And they get more money and they're miserable and and they buy their friends and uh it doesn't work.
00:21:55.920 --> 00:21:58.240
You y you have to give of yourself.
00:21:58.240 --> 00:22:07.680
And and the other thing As I say, is that be wary of what you do because every action has a compounding consequence.
00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:09.599
Play the long game.
00:22:09.599 --> 00:22:11.680
Don't cut any corners.
00:22:11.680 --> 00:22:17.119
Don't damage your brand by cheating or by taking shortcuts.
00:22:17.119 --> 00:22:22.400
Always err on the side of generosity, and that will come back to you.
00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:33.839
Even if it doesn't come back to you from the person who you look after, even if they portray you or whatever, you are still putting good out into the universe.
00:22:33.839 --> 00:22:42.799
And and the third component of it, I guess, is that we need to recognize that there's love and there's fear, and one will drive out the other.
00:22:42.799 --> 00:22:47.759
So relentlessly we need to choose love and and not count the cost.
00:22:47.759 --> 00:22:56.400
Because in the long run, in in my life, love has absolutely outweighed any negative.
00:22:56.400 --> 00:22:59.359
I'm absolutely swamped with love.
00:22:59.359 --> 00:23:07.279
I have a wife who loves me unconditionally, and I've put her through the ringer, and she's never once complained.
00:23:07.519 --> 00:23:11.039
Well, the fear, from what I'm seeing, fear does build walls.
00:23:11.039 --> 00:23:11.519
Yes.
00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:12.640
Love builds bridges.
00:23:12.640 --> 00:23:13.440
That's right.
00:23:13.599 --> 00:23:13.839
Yeah.
00:23:14.319 --> 00:23:22.160
The other thing you mentioned about courage, we hear young people saying that why doesn't good things happen to them?
00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:22.640
Yeah.
00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:24.000
It's not just young people.
00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:27.039
We hear a lot of people complaining why good things don't happen to them.
00:23:27.359 --> 00:23:32.400
Why does why does uh everybody else get the good um stuff and I get the bad stuff?
00:23:32.880 --> 00:23:39.359
Yeah, but but you've mentioned earlier in our conversation that courage is something that's really, really important.
00:23:39.359 --> 00:23:40.640
I think so.
00:23:40.640 --> 00:23:41.200
I think so.
00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:48.960
And we know perhaps one good suggestion we you know we might say to those young people is that fortune favors the bolt.
00:23:49.519 --> 00:23:50.319
It does.
00:23:50.319 --> 00:23:56.960
And the other thing you need to remember is that you need to have a good idea.
00:23:56.960 --> 00:24:02.880
You can pursue a bad idea uh to to the ends of the earth and get nothing from it.
00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:19.839
Your best investment is in researching and looking at what your passion is and whether you can monetize that by finding somebody who wants to buy what you what you want to sell.
00:24:19.839 --> 00:24:30.640
And so it's trying to find that happy medium where you've got uh a good idea, which in fact becomes, wow, it worked.
00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:40.160
You see, I I deal with very conservative people who sit on boards and and they look at me and say, George, where are we going to get the money for that?
00:24:40.160 --> 00:24:43.599
And I say, Well, you're going to get the money by earning it.
00:24:43.599 --> 00:24:45.920
Oh, we could never do that.
00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:48.319
You're talking millions, George.
00:24:48.319 --> 00:24:53.839
And I say, Well, you've never experienced winning the lotto every Friday.
00:24:53.839 --> 00:24:54.799
I have.
00:24:54.799 --> 00:25:02.079
I know what it's like to put out an idea into the marketplace and have it go crazy.
00:25:02.079 --> 00:25:10.960
You know, I I a quick example, I used to send out postcards to when I was overseas, I'd take my top hundred customers and send out postcards.
00:25:10.960 --> 00:25:14.559
I do this uh with when I I was overseas.
00:25:14.559 --> 00:25:23.119
I said we'd had some aerial photos of the farm done, and I I sent out a postcard and said to my top customers, a view from the farm.
00:25:23.119 --> 00:25:29.039
The next week I get a phone call from uh from Andrew, who's a top, really top customer.
00:25:29.039 --> 00:25:32.160
He said, Is this really the view from the farm, George?
00:25:32.160 --> 00:25:34.559
I said, Well, it's a bit of poetic license.
00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:37.599
Look, why don't you and your wife and kids come up on Sunday?
00:25:37.599 --> 00:25:41.440
I'll get Wayne and his family to come up and we'll have we'll have lunch together.
00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:48.000
So they all came out and we we went out on the tract and we had a a wild old time, you know, getting the kids' feet wet.
00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:52.160
They were on the back of the carry all and we were getting their feet wet.
00:25:52.160 --> 00:25:55.119
Uh, and and we just had a had an absolute ball.
00:25:55.119 --> 00:25:59.839
Uh the next Tuesday, Andrew sent uh uh an order for $27,000.
00:25:59.839 --> 00:26:06.559
And about two years later, uh at tax time, he sent in our biggest order ever.
00:26:06.799 --> 00:26:07.039
Wow.
00:26:07.359 --> 00:26:08.400
$72,000.
00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:10.160
At the time that would have been a lot of money.
00:26:10.160 --> 00:26:11.839
It was an awful lot of money.
00:26:11.839 --> 00:26:16.079
We were we were turning over about five or six million a year at the at that time.
00:26:16.079 --> 00:26:18.079
But the margins are so good.
00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:18.240
Yeah.
00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:25.200
Because I the the key to the key to that business was firstly it was it was something new.
00:26:25.200 --> 00:26:28.400
I could see that computers were going to take off particularly.
00:26:28.400 --> 00:26:30.480
You were one of the first people who bought the apple.
00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:32.960
Oh, well, it was there when 1978.
00:26:32.960 --> 00:26:40.880
Sometime in 78 when when Rudy and Lorna cracked open the uh the shipping container, I was there helping to grab one.
00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:42.799
So I might have been number seven or something.
00:26:42.799 --> 00:26:44.000
But I know a lot of people.
00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:46.160
At a time when people thought Apple was a fruit.
00:26:46.400 --> 00:26:46.960
Oh, yeah.
00:26:46.960 --> 00:26:48.160
Yeah.
00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:51.920
But you know, I I'd kept my eye on I could see.
00:26:51.920 --> 00:26:57.599
I'd bought I'd previously bought a little maths computer for drilling kids in in maths.
00:26:57.599 --> 00:27:00.960
I thought if we could do this in language, that would be fantastic.
00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:08.319
And I saw an advertisement in the September 77 issue of Scientific American, full-page ad for the Apple II.
00:27:08.319 --> 00:27:12.720
Uh it had dot addressable graphics, and I said, that's what I need.
00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:17.359
I want to be able to animate stuff, and I want to be able to ask questions about it.
00:27:17.359 --> 00:27:20.640
I want to have a you know, classroom assisted instruction.
00:27:20.640 --> 00:27:32.160
And and the key to my business was that um I sat down and I systematically wrote down the names and addresses of every school.
00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:49.039
And I also did deals with Sean Howard at Computer Land in Melbourne and with uh Brudy at Computer Land Sydney, uh, with um Imagineering with Jodie Rich and swapped mailing lists, my wholesale for their resale.
00:27:49.039 --> 00:27:54.079
And so as uh over time, I had a hundred thousand customers.
00:27:54.079 --> 00:27:57.119
Now that is an absolute gold mine.
00:27:57.119 --> 00:28:12.480
If you can get hold of a customer list of people who are interested in your product or who've had dealings with you, you you just systematically build it every day, every interaction you get their email address and put them on Facebook or whatever.
00:28:12.799 --> 00:28:18.480
It seems like your business wasn't just about technology and computers, it was about investing in people and their trust.
00:28:18.799 --> 00:28:20.000
Oh, yeah, yeah.
00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:24.880
Um well the the the um uh the key for me was my staff.
00:28:24.880 --> 00:28:33.680
Um what what we did is we had a very flat management structure, and everybody uh had to solve the the customers' problems.
00:28:33.680 --> 00:28:36.480
If the phone rang, you're responsible to answer.
00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:39.359
If the customer came, you went and talked to them.
00:28:39.359 --> 00:28:41.599
Uh and if they had a problem, you solved it.
00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:42.880
Didn't matter what it cost.
00:28:42.880 --> 00:28:46.160
We were running on 40% margin, so it didn't matter.
00:28:46.160 --> 00:28:48.240
And they were buying big.
00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:52.720
There was nowhere else to buy the consumables that wasn't twice the price.
00:28:52.720 --> 00:28:53.039
Yeah.
00:28:53.039 --> 00:29:00.319
Because I had the backup of a 100,000 database, I knew that all I had to do was find a product and get the price down.
00:29:00.319 --> 00:29:02.480
And I can I could put it out there.
00:29:02.799 --> 00:29:03.680
That that that is gold.
00:29:03.680 --> 00:29:04.559
That's better than the lottery.
00:29:04.799 --> 00:29:16.480
Oh, it's it's better than the lottery because you know perfectly well that if you can get that printer ribbon for half the price everybody else is paying for it because you buy a 40-foot container of it.
00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:18.880
But they were getting the same product, probably.
00:29:19.119 --> 00:29:22.240
They were getting the same product, but I was squeezing or twisting the arm.
00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:25.119
So you were representing the people you I certainly was.
00:29:25.279 --> 00:29:28.799
Uh but I was also representing the supplier in terms of volume.
00:29:29.039 --> 00:29:32.799
Well, they would have loved they would have loved you because they could not get the volume anywhere else.
00:29:32.799 --> 00:29:34.240
They couldn't get the volume anywhere else.
00:29:34.240 --> 00:29:35.279
That's what I was going to say.
00:29:35.279 --> 00:29:38.480
Now, despite everything you've accomplished, then you've done a great deal.
00:29:38.480 --> 00:29:40.240
Yeah, and you're still doing a whole lot.
00:29:40.240 --> 00:29:40.480
Yeah.
00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:46.480
What seems to excite you most today is not just making money, it's about helping other people think differently.
00:29:46.640 --> 00:29:46.880
Yeah.
00:29:47.119 --> 00:29:52.000
Now, why has legacy become more important to you, especially now than success itself?
00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:59.279
Uh yes, well, legacy for me is important because at this stage of my life I'm coming to the end.
00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:19.519
And I want to, I guess, leave my mark on on the world, uh, to to leave the what I have learned from hard-won experience that um the most important power in the universe uh is love, is kindness and compassion.
00:30:19.519 --> 00:30:35.839
And so uh what I've tried to do is to share my experience, strength and hope, with others, that they too might be able to experience some of the things that have happened in my life.
00:30:35.839 --> 00:30:45.200
One can live a very conventional and and quiet life with nothing much happening, or you can take a risk.
00:30:45.200 --> 00:30:48.000
You can you can say, well, look, life is short.
00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:51.200
I think this is going to do really well.
00:30:51.200 --> 00:30:59.920
And rather than pursue something that has a small payoff, maybe I should pursue something that has a really big payoff.
00:30:59.920 --> 00:31:03.359
And I want to give people the confidence to do that.
00:31:03.359 --> 00:31:09.839
That it's better to chase a hundred bagger and lose than it is to chase a one-bagger and win.
00:31:09.839 --> 00:31:15.519
You you put uh $100 into a project and you make a hundred dollars, big deal.
00:31:15.519 --> 00:31:22.000
You put a hundred dollars into a project and you have a prospect of making, you know, ten thousand dollars out of that hundred.
00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:23.519
That's a hundred bagger.
00:31:23.519 --> 00:31:28.319
And they will make do make up for all of your failures.
00:31:28.319 --> 00:31:30.480
And failure is a wonderful teacher.
00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:33.519
If you're not failing, you're not trying hard enough.
00:31:33.920 --> 00:31:36.799
That's that's one of my favorite screens, actually.
00:31:36.799 --> 00:31:41.119
But also, a lot of people have goals and dreams, and that's fantastic.
00:31:41.119 --> 00:31:50.720
That they tend to put things off, they either procrastinate or they they spend their time planning, and by the time they get to actually doing it, they're burnt out.
00:31:50.720 --> 00:31:51.440
That's right.
00:31:51.440 --> 00:31:54.480
Most of us wake up assuming tomorrow, though, is guaranteed.
00:31:54.480 --> 00:31:56.000
People think they've got infinite time.
00:31:56.160 --> 00:31:56.319
Yeah.
00:31:56.559 --> 00:32:00.400
But your health has made the limits of time much harder to ignore.
00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:01.039
Yes.
00:32:01.039 --> 00:32:17.839
Uh, given my impending exit from the scene, uh, I'm I'm having to be a little bit more deliberate about things and um um encourage people to take risks, but to not take ridiculous risks.
00:32:17.839 --> 00:32:31.440
Um I was very fortunate, and I talk about this in my book, to have been schooled in a very entrepreneurial, a kind of Montessori school, where we were allowed to um create businesses.
00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:35.519
And uh we well, my my business was a hundred bagger.
00:32:35.519 --> 00:32:39.759
Over two years I turned two shillings into ten pounds.
00:32:39.759 --> 00:32:46.160
And I I did that by using creativity and looking for the smart way of doing things.
00:32:46.160 --> 00:32:52.640
You know, though you often hear the expression that um persistence is the most important thing in life.
00:32:52.640 --> 00:32:53.839
No, it isn't.
00:32:53.839 --> 00:32:55.680
Absolutely isn't.
00:32:55.680 --> 00:32:57.599
Creativity is more important.
00:32:57.599 --> 00:33:06.079
If you can come up with a good idea uh that that beats everything out of the out of the the ground, then you should pursue that.
00:33:06.079 --> 00:33:19.680
And we did that in uh 2013 when Typhoon Hyen struck the Philippine farmers persistent with um, oh, we'll just keep on using our indigenous rice and keep using it.
00:33:19.680 --> 00:33:27.519
And and Manfred and I researched it and said, no, here's some rice over here that will produce three times the yield.
00:33:27.519 --> 00:33:29.599
And that was that was gold.
00:33:29.599 --> 00:33:34.000
That was that was what we tried to to get the farmers to take on.
00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:44.319
But they resisted us at every move because they were conservative and they thought they knew better, and that they were they didn't want to do anything that the Chinese had produced.
00:33:44.319 --> 00:33:46.400
And it took us five years.
00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:49.279
And what we did, we we tricked them.
00:33:49.279 --> 00:33:52.079
We we said, okay, we're going to grow our own rice.
00:33:52.079 --> 00:33:53.759
We're not going to bother about you guys.
00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:57.920
So Manfred rented a field and he grew his own rice.
00:33:57.920 --> 00:34:00.319
And it was it was a bumper yield.
00:34:00.319 --> 00:34:02.079
Uh it was 200 bags.
00:34:02.079 --> 00:34:08.960
And um I said to him, Look, when when you come to harvest it, I want you to arrive late on the scene.
00:34:08.960 --> 00:34:13.440
So he he arrived uh after most of it had been harvested.
00:34:13.440 --> 00:34:15.840
And the farmers said, Oh, Mr.
00:34:15.840 --> 00:34:19.360
Manfred, terrible crop, only 49 bags.
00:34:19.360 --> 00:34:22.320
And Manfred said, Oh, well, better luck next time.
00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:27.280
But of course, they did what we wanted them to do, which was to take ownership.
00:34:27.280 --> 00:34:39.280
We wanted them to steal it, we wanted them to think they'd gotten one over on us, and that then from that point on uh SL8 superhybrid rice became the standard rice that was used.
00:34:39.280 --> 00:34:44.880
And they didn't want to use it because they had to buy it, but they could see the value in that.
00:34:44.880 --> 00:34:51.039
And today, uh most um children are no longer working in in rice fields.
00:34:51.039 --> 00:35:00.639
The particular family of Manfred's wife, they've moved from a grass shack in Kalibo into an apartment in Manila.
00:35:00.639 --> 00:35:02.639
She has done her MBA.
00:35:02.639 --> 00:35:19.440
The boys are in high in university doing degrees, and it's all from one simple little idea to to uh take on super hybrid rice uh as the vehicle for them improving their financial situation.
00:35:19.760 --> 00:35:22.079
Well, from from little things, big things, yeah.
00:35:22.079 --> 00:35:22.960
Yeah, yeah.
00:35:23.119 --> 00:35:23.440
Yeah.
00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:31.360
Most of us complain about small inconveniences, yet for you, walking outside or even bending down to tie your shoelaces can sometimes carry a bit of a risk.
00:35:31.360 --> 00:35:32.960
People don't don't realize that.
00:35:32.960 --> 00:35:39.840
There's so many capable people of doing great things, but we myself included, often we take things for granted.
00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:40.559
Yeah.
00:35:40.800 --> 00:35:45.840
You know, but what do healthy people fail to appreciate until it's almost taken away?
00:35:46.400 --> 00:35:48.800
Um that's a good question.
00:35:48.800 --> 00:35:50.480
I haven't thought about it.
00:35:50.480 --> 00:36:02.639
I I guess my situation is my my situation in relation to uh frailty is I don't let my um my physical circumstance uh dictate my life.
00:36:02.639 --> 00:36:07.039
I I focus on what I can do rather than what I can't.
00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:21.360
And and fortunately, uh while I can get angina just from getting out of a chair, um my brain is still very functional and it is stimulated by conversation.
00:36:21.360 --> 00:36:33.280
So if I've got someone to chat with, I light up, I'm I'm on fire because you know it's going back into all my memories and and keep keeping um my brain healthy.
00:36:33.280 --> 00:36:37.599
Uh but physically no, I'm uh I can do very little.
00:36:37.599 --> 00:36:43.119
I can I I I can sit for about an hour and then I need to recline.
00:36:43.119 --> 00:36:46.559
And I I I can walk for about 50 meters.
00:36:46.559 --> 00:36:47.840
That's about my limit.
00:36:47.840 --> 00:36:52.239
But the main thing, as I say, is is to value what you can do.
00:36:52.559 --> 00:36:54.000
And what's within your control, of course.
00:36:54.239 --> 00:36:55.039
Yeah, of course it is.
00:36:55.039 --> 00:36:57.280
And it's it's it's within all our control.
00:36:57.280 --> 00:37:14.320
And I I tell the story of Mitchell, who um uh I'll quickly summarize that he had um he was um burnt up in a um uh a motorcycle accident, and uh for some years he was he was had no fingers on his hands and his face was he had no ears and he looked terrible.
00:37:14.320 --> 00:37:22.400
But he he rebuilt his life and then he had a plane accident and he um he became a a paraplegic.
00:37:22.480 --> 00:37:24.719
So he's a a bike accident.
00:37:24.719 --> 00:37:26.719
He had a bike accident, and then he had a plane accident.
00:37:26.960 --> 00:37:29.199
And then 10 years later he had a plane accident.
00:37:29.199 --> 00:37:39.760
And and you know, here he is, he's a burnt-up cripple, and he's he's sort of you know cursing God on the terrace of the Crested Butte, Colorado Hospital.
00:37:39.760 --> 00:37:44.880
Ah, before my uh uh accidents I had 10,000 things I could do.
00:37:44.880 --> 00:37:48.960
And this voice said to him, Yeah, but there's still 9,000 things you can do.
00:37:48.960 --> 00:37:57.599
He said, you know, he said, I I was complaining that the cake I'd been given has got a hole in it, but then I realized it's a donut.
00:37:57.599 --> 00:38:00.639
So he turned it to his advantage.
00:38:00.639 --> 00:38:04.400
He turned it to his advantage and became a motivational speaker, which is where I met him.
00:38:04.719 --> 00:38:05.199
Good on him.
00:38:05.199 --> 00:38:05.519
Yeah.
00:38:05.519 --> 00:38:07.199
I was catching a plane once.
00:38:07.199 --> 00:38:19.679
Uh, I think it was just in Sydney, Kingston Smith Airport, and I remember feeling a little bit tired, depressed, because I really didn't want to travel wherever I was going to at the time.
00:38:19.679 --> 00:38:24.239
And I had a lot of work back in the office, yeah, and I was really, yeah, didn't want to be that.
00:38:24.239 --> 00:38:32.960
And then I see uh a bunch of school kids who all had some kind of a disability, yeah, whether it was impairment with movement, physical disabilities.
00:38:32.960 --> 00:38:33.199
Yeah.
00:38:33.199 --> 00:38:34.079
And you know what?
00:38:34.079 --> 00:38:35.360
They seem to be so happy.
00:38:35.360 --> 00:38:39.599
Yeah, I thought to myself, hang on a sec, what am I complaining about?
00:38:39.599 --> 00:38:41.920
I mean, this was just uh a reflection.
00:38:42.159 --> 00:38:42.400
Yeah.
00:38:42.400 --> 00:38:46.159
Look, we we all suffer from brain chemistry imbalances.
00:38:46.159 --> 00:38:51.360
Sometimes we we get a bit down and we think, you know, well, I know it's not fair.
00:38:51.679 --> 00:38:57.519
But your book, and and I'm gonna go back to your book now, because I was very excited to read it.
00:38:57.519 --> 00:39:00.400
As I mentioned, I read it almost straight away as soon as I got it.
00:39:00.400 --> 00:39:02.000
Okay, got my new Kindle.
00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:04.079
I I've never had a Kindle in my life.
00:39:04.079 --> 00:39:04.320
Yeah.
00:39:04.320 --> 00:39:06.400
That was the that made me go and buy a Kindle.
00:39:06.400 --> 00:39:06.719
Yeah.
00:39:06.719 --> 00:39:09.840
Because I really wanted to take it with me everywhere before we speak.
00:39:09.840 --> 00:39:10.159
Okay.
00:39:10.159 --> 00:39:15.280
And your book, Order from Chaos, feels in many ways like a metaphor for your own life.
00:39:15.280 --> 00:39:21.039
I actually think it feels like a metaphor to many people's life, which is why it resonated with me so much.
00:39:21.039 --> 00:39:24.880
So, how do we find opportunity when life seems to be falling apart?
00:39:24.880 --> 00:39:26.000
And that was my question.
00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:26.719
Yeah.
00:39:27.039 --> 00:39:36.960
Yeah, look, I think have faith, have faith that um uh every every there there are opportunities everywhere you look.
00:39:36.960 --> 00:39:50.239
And um with the expansion of artificial intelligence and exponential technologies all coming coming together at once, it can all seem overwhelming.
00:39:50.239 --> 00:39:59.840
But if we just sit back and and watch, we will see opportunities come up, and particularly if we involve ourselves with people.
00:39:59.840 --> 00:40:06.320
We don't involving ourselves with uh property or machinery or or things.
00:40:06.320 --> 00:40:20.320
Just involve yourself with people, find find ways to interact with people, and opportunities will come up in discussions, and you'll you'll hear one person's side of something and say, Well, I think I could help there.
00:40:20.320 --> 00:40:22.320
Or I know somebody who could.
00:40:22.320 --> 00:40:31.920
So, for example, um the uh the book that was Tim Roberts, who said, Oh, I know a friend of mine called Nigel, that's what he does.
00:40:31.920 --> 00:40:38.880
And so Nigel came over and he certainly put in far more effort than I I expected.
00:40:38.880 --> 00:40:45.920
He gave very handsomely and generously of his time to get my my book onto Kindle.
00:40:45.920 --> 00:41:06.719
And um that's what life is like, building a network of friends, of people that you can rely on, people that that you know you don't mistreat, you you treat with love and respect and kindness, and and always, always don't treat, don't, don't take the shortcuts.
00:41:06.719 --> 00:41:13.760
Be, you know, be wary of of um uh saying, aha, I think I can I can ha do a swifty here.
00:41:13.760 --> 00:41:14.320
No.
00:41:14.320 --> 00:41:17.519
That that that goes against the whole karma thing.
00:41:17.519 --> 00:41:25.280
But you build your brand and and you build your reputation, you build your network of people who trust you, and all of a sudden opportunities come up.
00:41:25.519 --> 00:41:25.920
And they do.
00:41:26.320 --> 00:41:26.559
They do.
00:41:26.559 --> 00:41:30.800
Well, yours has come about because it's absolutely absolutely.
00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:35.440
I mean, every day I'm still pinching myself to get to do what I'm doing all the time.
00:41:35.440 --> 00:41:38.320
I get to meet the most incredible people like yourself, of course.
00:41:38.320 --> 00:41:44.400
Yeah, but also it's because he said that strange I've just friends waiting to happen.
00:41:44.400 --> 00:41:45.199
That's right.
00:41:45.199 --> 00:41:46.239
And you know what?
00:41:46.239 --> 00:41:47.440
It's absolutely true.
00:41:47.440 --> 00:41:48.800
Talk to people, yeah.
00:41:48.960 --> 00:41:49.360
Say hello.
00:41:49.360 --> 00:41:54.000
Have the courage, have the courage to reach out, and and sometimes it's a dud, you know.
00:41:54.000 --> 00:41:57.840
But you never know if you don't the walls come up, boom.
00:41:57.840 --> 00:42:15.599
But you know, but by being vulnerable, by for me, for example, by uh expressing my vulnerability to people, in where where it's appropriate and where um we have the the the respect, I can express my vulnerability.
00:42:15.599 --> 00:42:24.719
And that opens up the the walls, you know, as we as uh Cohen talks about, you can add up the parts, you won't have the sum.
00:42:24.719 --> 00:42:27.679
You can strike up the marks, there is no drum.
00:42:27.679 --> 00:42:31.920
For every heart to love will come, but like a refugee.
00:42:31.920 --> 00:42:34.480
So ring the bells that still can ring.
00:42:34.480 --> 00:42:36.559
Forget your perfect offering.
00:42:36.559 --> 00:42:42.000
There is a crack, there is a crack in everything, and that's how the light gets in.
00:42:42.239 --> 00:42:42.960
That's beautiful.
00:42:42.960 --> 00:42:43.360
Yeah.
00:42:43.360 --> 00:42:44.079
That really is.
00:42:44.079 --> 00:42:45.119
That's his anthem.
00:42:45.119 --> 00:42:59.519
You know, just thinking about what you when you were saying that is when walls do come up, yeah, and it's usually because people uh don't know that there hasn't been that um that history.
00:42:59.519 --> 00:43:00.719
So the walls are coming up.
00:43:00.719 --> 00:43:03.280
That's just people doing what they do, protecting themselves.
00:43:03.599 --> 00:43:05.920
Yeah, well, of course, it's uh it's all relative.
00:43:05.920 --> 00:43:08.079
You you you don't just dump on people.
00:43:08.079 --> 00:43:08.320
No.
00:43:08.320 --> 00:43:15.679
You you have to allow this all to evolve if you can if there's a history of trust and sharing.
00:43:16.079 --> 00:43:18.079
But I think it's it's the validation.
00:43:18.079 --> 00:43:22.719
When you give people that validation, I think that's when we see the wall come down.
00:43:23.039 --> 00:43:23.599
Yeah, yeah.
00:43:23.599 --> 00:43:44.800
And and that's and that's and that I think that's what I try to do in my book as well, to to offer a level of honesty about my journey, uh, so that people might also have the courage uh to live an intentional life and live a life based upon the giving and receiving of kindness.
00:43:44.800 --> 00:43:45.199
Yeah.
00:43:45.199 --> 00:43:45.519
Yeah.
00:43:45.519 --> 00:43:48.320
It all starts with with hello, doesn't it?
00:43:48.320 --> 00:43:49.280
It does, yeah.
00:43:49.280 --> 00:43:52.320
And and also looking in people's eyes and smiling.
00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:56.960
That that can break through because a lot of times people will do this.
00:43:56.960 --> 00:43:59.760
They'll def they'll deflect their eyes, they won't look at you.
00:43:59.760 --> 00:44:14.159
And and they'll blink their eyes and but they they're terrified of looking at you because that's a um yeah that's the um their defense mechanism Community is getting hard to find.
00:44:14.159 --> 00:44:20.320
When when I was a boy there were dances, there were you know community stuff.
00:44:20.320 --> 00:44:25.840
Uh people would go to the beach and uh they'd all do stuff at the beach together.
00:44:25.840 --> 00:44:32.559
Um but nowadays i everybody's an individual and uh we've lost that sense of belonging.
00:44:32.559 --> 00:44:37.119
And of course we're now we're now mindless victims of the oligarchs.
00:44:37.119 --> 00:44:37.599
And yeah.
00:44:37.599 --> 00:44:45.440
So we need to find we need to find a new way to um to create community, to create purpose.
00:44:45.440 --> 00:45:01.760
And that's what I'm trying to do with the university and and the garden, because the university has become a hard-nosed business focusing on overseas students and focusing on building um apartments.
00:45:01.760 --> 00:45:06.639
I'm thinking, hey, what's required here is a new way of looking at things.
00:45:06.639 --> 00:45:19.440
We need to we need to educate people into uh wisdom and creativity and and human uh uh interaction rather than interacting with uh software and machines.
00:45:19.440 --> 00:45:26.239
We we we need to have good skills in human management and political involvement, so on.
00:45:26.239 --> 00:45:31.039
And and I I'm optimistic that that we will get through it.
00:45:31.039 --> 00:45:46.639
You know, we got through the the fear of uh um uh nuclear annihilation, we got through the Holocaust, we've got got through the industrial revolution, um, the Luddites, you know, everything we've we've overcome as as a society.
00:45:46.639 --> 00:45:56.320
But as I express in my book, there's a um a coming together of exponential forces that that are making it just so exploding.
00:45:56.639 --> 00:46:02.639
And that's what's gonna, I feel, will save society, will save our race.
00:46:02.960 --> 00:46:03.760
Yeah, yeah.
00:46:03.760 --> 00:46:10.800
I'm I'm optimistic that we will find a way through and that it won't be based on fear.
00:46:10.880 --> 00:46:11.119
Yeah.
00:46:11.280 --> 00:46:12.800
It'll be based on love and cooperation.
00:46:13.119 --> 00:46:14.880
Yeah, absolutely agree with you.
00:46:14.880 --> 00:46:18.400
Now, um, throughout the conversation, we've spoken about life.
00:46:18.400 --> 00:46:26.159
Eventually, every one of us also needs to speak about death, a subject many Australians still find deeply uncomfortable.
00:46:26.320 --> 00:46:26.719
Yeah.
00:46:26.880 --> 00:46:30.800
Now you've publicly shared your support for voluntary assisted dying.
00:46:30.800 --> 00:46:36.159
What led you to that position and what do you hope people understand before forming their own opinions?
00:46:36.719 --> 00:46:55.920
Well, I uh applied for voluntary assisted dying when my cardiologist told me that my heart would fail in six to eight weeks, because I knew that if that were the case, I would end up with unbearable pain uh through angina, through blockage.
00:46:55.920 --> 00:47:03.039
I've had it before, and I I wanted to be able to have some agency in my departure.
00:47:03.039 --> 00:47:09.599
So it took a lot to get the lot of cross-checks and counter checks and different people involved.
00:47:09.599 --> 00:47:14.800
But we did eventually get the um the VAD kit and it's sitting in the cupboard.
00:47:14.800 --> 00:47:18.719
I haven't thought about it for five weeks, it's just sitting there.
00:47:18.719 --> 00:47:32.719
Uh but it gives me great comfort to know that if if if all else fails, I c I can sit in my lounge chair and take a mixture and just quietly fade away, and that'll be the end of it.
00:47:32.719 --> 00:47:49.360
Um, but what I've tried to do too is to put down my legacy, my ideas, my philosophy, and a lot of my life's stories into a book because VAD gave me the time.
00:47:49.360 --> 00:47:54.400
It gave me the confidence that that I I I wasn't going to have to worry about the end.
00:47:54.400 --> 00:47:58.880
So I I sat down for six weeks and I I wrote and I wrote and I wrote.
00:47:58.880 --> 00:48:08.960
And of course, um with with my heart, it's it runs fast, which means I'm full of endorphins, and I only sleep for two hours at a stretch.
00:48:08.960 --> 00:48:12.639
So, yeah, I was a bit obsessive about finishing my book.
00:48:12.639 --> 00:48:18.320
And um fortunately it went online just this week and and it's my legacy.
00:48:18.320 --> 00:48:23.440
I I'd I would love people to read it so that they could get a sense of of hope.
00:48:23.440 --> 00:48:45.760
That um even with all the the scary things that are happening in the world, uh, if we tap into the healing power of love and and make every interaction with people a winner, where we try to build rather than break down, we lift people up rather than push down on their shoulders to lift ourselves up.
00:48:45.920 --> 00:48:46.239
Yeah.
00:48:46.559 --> 00:48:53.760
So many people uh seek to push down on other people to elevate themselves and say, look at me.
00:48:53.760 --> 00:48:56.639
But the reality is that it doesn't fill the hole.
00:48:56.639 --> 00:49:06.159
I remember I always wanted a sports car, and I eventually bought one and I parked it in at the bottom of the the beach hotel there, and I'm looking down.
00:49:06.159 --> 00:49:11.599
I finally got my sports car, and I thought, is that all there is?
00:49:11.599 --> 00:49:13.119
Is that it?
00:49:13.119 --> 00:49:18.400
You know, I wanted I wanted a great feeling of love and happiness.
00:49:18.400 --> 00:49:20.480
No, I've just got a different car.
00:49:20.800 --> 00:49:22.800
Seems like all that is already within you.
00:49:22.800 --> 00:49:23.360
Yeah.
00:49:23.360 --> 00:49:31.039
Well, regardless of where people stand on the voluntary assist of dying, conversations about the end of life deserve compassion rather than judgment.
00:49:31.039 --> 00:49:36.719
What have you learned about dignity, compassion, and choice that you wish every Australian understood?
00:49:37.199 --> 00:49:54.079
Oh, look, it's um it's such a relief, and and I'm so grateful to the people who led who wrote the legislation and and pushed to get it through against the conservative forces of particularly the Catholic Church.
00:49:54.079 --> 00:49:59.039
Um that uh we all need to feel agency.
00:49:59.039 --> 00:50:07.360
We need to feel we're in control of our last days, and it's nobody else's business really.
00:50:07.360 --> 00:50:19.679
Why should governments or rather uh organizations, churches, um why why should anybody uh have any say in how I end my life?
00:50:19.679 --> 00:50:33.119
Uh if I'm suffering uh from extreme pain, and and of course we have all of the counterchecks have already been done, and I definitely qualify, uh no, there should be no argument as to as to this.
00:50:33.199 --> 00:50:38.559
Aaron Powell And you mentioned you having the control to be able to do that, but it's it's also dignity.
00:50:39.119 --> 00:50:39.840
Oh, certainly.
00:50:39.840 --> 00:50:40.480
Certainly.
00:50:40.480 --> 00:50:47.599
You you you don't want to go out in screaming pain with all about you tearing their hair out.
00:50:47.599 --> 00:50:55.280
You want to go out peacefully and quietly so that they can say, Oh, it was a wonderful death.
00:50:55.280 --> 00:50:56.800
It was a lovely death.
00:50:56.800 --> 00:51:00.800
And that's what's that's what it each of us deserves, I think.
00:51:00.800 --> 00:51:02.639
We deserve a good death.
00:51:02.639 --> 00:51:04.320
We're all going to die.
00:51:04.320 --> 00:51:06.159
Uh we don't need to run from it.
00:51:06.159 --> 00:51:08.400
We don't need to rush and embrace it either.
00:51:08.400 --> 00:51:10.239
But um, and indeed I'm not.
00:51:10.239 --> 00:51:15.360
I'm I'm very content to because my life is so much fun at the moment.
00:51:15.360 --> 00:51:17.119
I'm having such a ball.
00:51:17.119 --> 00:51:18.159
I really am.
00:51:18.159 --> 00:51:22.800
It's just so many people have have um expressed their kindness and love to me.
00:51:22.800 --> 00:51:23.920
I didn't know.
00:51:23.920 --> 00:51:24.239
Yeah.
00:51:24.239 --> 00:51:28.719
And and I a lot of the time too, they they tell me memories that I I'd forgotten.
00:51:28.719 --> 00:51:33.119
Uh you know, so I'm filling in a lot of my life with uh memories of others.
00:51:33.119 --> 00:51:34.960
So you know, life has been wonderful.
00:51:34.960 --> 00:51:37.280
I've had a a fantastic life.
00:51:37.280 --> 00:51:43.519
And um I I don't regret for a moment um all of the ups and downs.
00:51:43.519 --> 00:51:58.960
I mean, um going from winning the lotto every Friday to being spat out at the end of it with um uh no assets of any kind, no house, no car, no job, no income, and a hundred thousand dollars worth of credit card debt.
00:51:58.960 --> 00:52:01.760
Now, I would describe that as character building.
00:52:01.760 --> 00:52:06.400
I bounced back up, I refused to go bankrupt.
00:52:06.400 --> 00:52:08.079
I did a deal with the bank.
00:52:08.079 --> 00:52:15.760
I said, I can go bankrupt if you like, or I can pay you fifty dollars a week, and you have to stop the interest rates.
00:52:15.760 --> 00:52:16.800
And they did.
00:52:16.800 --> 00:52:21.599
They put the my hundred thousand in reduction, and over seven years I paid it off.
00:52:21.599 --> 00:52:22.639
Fantastic.
00:52:22.639 --> 00:52:23.360
Fantastic.
00:52:23.360 --> 00:52:29.039
But I tried lots of different big things, but um the the main thing that worked was Paul Lane's book.
00:52:29.280 --> 00:52:29.519
Yeah.
00:52:29.679 --> 00:52:29.920
Yeah.
00:52:30.079 --> 00:52:30.719
Yeah.
00:52:30.719 --> 00:52:37.039
Well, I've got to say, George, it's just every time we speak, there's always examples.
00:52:37.039 --> 00:52:40.159
You're full of different examples of what works.
00:52:40.159 --> 00:52:40.400
Yeah.
00:52:40.400 --> 00:52:45.920
And I just think when we look at it, when we talk about death, most people think it's very morbid.
00:52:45.920 --> 00:52:46.880
No, not at all.
00:52:46.880 --> 00:52:51.440
I think talking about death, it's not about dying, it's about living.
00:52:51.440 --> 00:52:55.760
It's about realizing how limited our time is, how precious.
00:52:55.760 --> 00:52:56.000
Yeah.
00:52:56.000 --> 00:52:59.360
And we can never get back yesterday.
00:52:59.360 --> 00:53:00.159
That's right.
00:53:00.320 --> 00:53:06.079
You know, when people say to me, George, like I I I go into dialysis, how are you today, George?
00:53:06.079 --> 00:53:07.599
Mate, I'm great.
00:53:07.599 --> 00:53:09.599
I wake up alive again, you know.
00:53:09.599 --> 00:53:11.280
I haven't missed a day.
00:53:11.280 --> 00:53:12.880
Got a perfect record.
00:53:12.880 --> 00:53:13.440
Yeah.
00:53:13.440 --> 00:53:14.320
There you go.
00:53:14.320 --> 00:53:18.719
So you make fun of it, but but I uh yeah, look, life is so fantastic.
00:53:18.719 --> 00:53:20.960
It's so because you make it that way.
00:53:20.960 --> 00:53:25.440
Uh two men look through prison bars, one sees mud, the other stars.
00:53:25.440 --> 00:53:27.760
You know, it's it's all about your attitude.
00:53:27.760 --> 00:53:32.800
What's happening inside my head has nothing to do with what's happening outside my body.
00:53:32.800 --> 00:53:33.360
Yeah, yeah.
00:53:33.360 --> 00:53:39.519
Um I can I can blame everybody, and I point my finger at people, and I've got three fingers pointing back at me.
00:53:39.519 --> 00:53:41.039
What am I going to do about it?
00:53:41.039 --> 00:53:42.480
Not what are you going to do about it?
00:53:42.480 --> 00:53:43.840
What am I going to do about it?
00:53:43.840 --> 00:53:56.239
Using the that simple strategy of the surrender serenity prayer, letting go of all the things I can't change, but importantly making those little changes that are nagging at you.
00:53:56.239 --> 00:53:56.960
Absolutely.
00:53:57.440 --> 00:54:06.400
And and this is the thing, is if something's on my mind, I I look at it like a doctor identifying what the root cause of that problem is.
00:54:06.400 --> 00:54:10.480
In that particular case, it's something that's keeping me awake at night.
00:54:10.480 --> 00:54:10.800
Yeah.
00:54:10.800 --> 00:54:14.800
And if I can identify what it is, I can I can treat it.
00:54:14.880 --> 00:54:15.119
Yeah.
00:54:15.360 --> 00:54:20.639
And most of the time, that's telling me to it's like a window into my own soul.
00:54:20.800 --> 00:54:21.039
Yeah.
00:54:21.119 --> 00:54:21.440
Yeah.
00:54:21.440 --> 00:54:27.360
So, George, imagine this conversation were your last opportunity to speak to the thousands of Australians out there.
00:54:27.440 --> 00:54:27.840
Yeah.
00:54:28.079 --> 00:54:33.360
What would you want every person listening today to remember long after this podcast finishes?
00:54:33.679 --> 00:54:39.920
I guess my final message might be to people don't be afraid to take risks.
00:54:39.920 --> 00:54:44.320
Come up with something that you think might work, run it through your mind.
00:54:44.320 --> 00:54:46.079
Yeah.
00:54:46.079 --> 00:54:48.079
And then jump too soon.
00:54:48.079 --> 00:54:49.679
Don't wait.
00:54:49.679 --> 00:54:52.480
If you think it's going to work, give it a go.
00:54:52.480 --> 00:54:55.119
Ready, fire, aim.
00:54:55.119 --> 00:54:56.320
And then fire again.
00:54:56.320 --> 00:54:58.239
And fire and aim and fire again.
00:54:58.239 --> 00:54:58.719
Yes.
00:54:58.719 --> 00:55:02.079
You don't you don't wait until your target stops moving.
00:55:02.079 --> 00:55:02.800
That's right.
00:55:02.800 --> 00:55:10.000
You you you adjust your aim after you fire it, and then that's good practical advice.
00:55:10.000 --> 00:55:12.400
Most people don't do that.
00:55:12.400 --> 00:55:16.079
They they wait for perfection, and perfection will never come.
00:55:16.400 --> 00:55:18.719
Well, the perfection is the enemy of progression.
00:55:18.880 --> 00:55:19.280
Yeah.
00:55:19.599 --> 00:55:25.519
And what happens is that sometimes people are waiting so long to take their aim, by the time they fire, the target's gone.
00:55:25.760 --> 00:55:26.559
Yeah, that's right.
00:55:26.559 --> 00:55:29.440
Or the the the the gunpowder's got whacked.
00:55:31.519 --> 00:55:37.920
George, I've got to say one of the highlights for me of doing programs like this is getting to meet remarkable people.
00:55:37.920 --> 00:55:39.599
You are certainly remarkable.
00:55:39.599 --> 00:55:43.119
Well, I say um right now you're a treasure.
00:55:43.119 --> 00:55:43.840
Wonderful.
00:55:43.840 --> 00:55:47.760
And you'll continue being a treasure with your legacy that you're leaving behind.
00:55:47.760 --> 00:55:48.159
Yes.
00:55:48.159 --> 00:55:50.159
And I'm very, very grateful for the opportunity.
00:55:50.480 --> 00:55:57.679
Well, I'm grateful for you also because uh I'm not worried about money or anything if you know if if it takes off on Kindle, I'm not concerned about that.
00:55:57.679 --> 00:56:04.880
My main thing is to get my life celebration out there so that I can say to people, here it is.
00:56:04.880 --> 00:56:08.320
Bronny did a Facebook video, 43 minutes.
00:56:08.320 --> 00:56:10.000
There's no editing in that.
00:56:10.000 --> 00:56:22.320
Um then I've got my book out there, and then we'll have this uh podcast, and that will be a full, you know, trifecta really of well the trifecta is the the way we touch people's hearts.
00:56:22.320 --> 00:56:22.880
Yeah.
00:56:22.880 --> 00:56:33.119
Um you you might you might open um uh uh open the door uh with logic, but you open the wallet with love.
00:56:33.119 --> 00:56:34.880
Yeah, you open the heart with love.
00:56:35.199 --> 00:56:40.079
It reminds me also another thing if you could save one person, yeah, you save the world.
00:56:40.079 --> 00:56:41.039
Save the world.
00:56:41.119 --> 00:56:41.440
Yeah.
00:56:41.760 --> 00:56:44.239
I bel I believe that we can touch one heart.
00:56:44.239 --> 00:56:46.960
Yeah, we change the world at the level of one.
00:56:47.199 --> 00:56:50.000
So, George, I've got my copy of that book.
00:56:50.000 --> 00:56:50.320
Yeah.
00:56:50.320 --> 00:56:53.519
I'm gonna buy a few physical copies as well and check it out to people.
00:56:53.519 --> 00:56:54.159
Oh, yeah.
00:56:54.480 --> 00:56:55.039
Someone give you.
00:56:55.199 --> 00:57:01.679
Well, I'll actually want to buy it as well, and I'd love to be able to share it and and and give it to people who could benefit from it.
00:57:01.679 --> 00:57:02.000
Yes.
00:57:02.000 --> 00:57:10.159
But also, more importantly, if people who are listening to this program would like to get a copy of that book, yeah, where do they get it from?
00:57:10.559 --> 00:57:22.159
Well, you uh the easiest way is to go to Amazon.com or Amazon.com.au and just type in order from chaos georgeparry.
00:57:22.880 --> 00:57:24.000
P-A-R-R-Y.
00:57:24.000 --> 00:57:24.559
Yeah.
00:57:24.559 --> 00:57:25.360
Fantastic.
00:57:25.360 --> 00:57:27.840
I'll also have all that information in the show notes.
00:57:27.840 --> 00:57:28.239
Yes.
00:57:28.239 --> 00:57:34.480
If people wanted to connect with you, say via social media, LinkedIn, email, what's the best way?
00:57:34.719 --> 00:57:35.840
Well, I'm on LinkedIn.
00:57:35.840 --> 00:57:40.639
It's uh I'm George Parry with a picture of a dog licking my chin.
00:57:40.639 --> 00:57:43.199
And there's a few George Parrys.
00:57:43.199 --> 00:57:47.679
But you can get me at George Parry48 at iClub.com.
00:57:47.920 --> 00:57:50.400
Again, I'll have all that information in the show notes.
00:57:50.400 --> 00:57:51.440
Thank you so much, George.
00:57:51.760 --> 00:57:52.239
Good on you, man.
00:57:52.239 --> 00:57:53.039
Really, really appreciate it.
00:57:53.039 --> 00:57:57.760
Yeah, let's say, but um, it it fires away and it's all good.
00:57:57.760 --> 00:58:04.800
And I this is all part of my uh life now, waiting for um the exit point.
00:58:06.719 --> 00:58:08.639
Thank you so much, George.
00:58:08.639 --> 00:58:16.320
Now that was a conversation I genuinely valued and one that will stay with me for a very long time.
00:58:16.320 --> 00:58:18.639
I hope it does with you too.
00:58:18.639 --> 00:58:36.239
Spending time with George Parry reminded me that some of life's most important lessons are often the simplest ones, yet they're also the easiest ones to forget, especially when we become consumed by deadlines, responsibilities, and everything else that feels urgent at the time.
00:58:36.239 --> 00:58:40.559
What stayed with me most was George's willingness to look at life differently.
00:58:40.559 --> 00:58:52.239
It was his honesty, the success, the failures, the addiction, the recovery, the relationships, the risks, the regrets, and now the reality that his time may be limited.
00:58:52.239 --> 00:58:54.960
Yet his message wasn't one of fear.
00:58:54.960 --> 00:59:11.519
It was about choosing love over fear, reaching out instead of withdrawing, taking chances, helping others, and focusing less on what the world should do for us and more on the question George asks so simply, what am I going to do about it?
00:59:11.519 --> 00:59:15.039
George also reminded us that community still matters.
00:59:15.039 --> 00:59:34.639
I see that every day through organizations such as Survivors Are Us, through the work of our Chambers of Commerce and community leaders, through Fire and Rescue New South Wales and our first responders, and through people who continue to give their time and energy simply because they believe life can be better for someone else.
00:59:34.639 --> 00:59:41.599
A huge thank you to George for his openness, humour, and generosity he brought into this conversation.
00:59:41.599 --> 00:59:54.079
If George's story resonated with you, I also encourage you to read his book, Order from Chaos, where he shares much of his life, experiences, and the lessons he has gathered along the way.
00:59:54.079 --> 01:00:00.719
It's available in both Kindle and Physical Editions through Amazon, and I've included the link in the show notes.
01:00:00.719 --> 01:00:03.920
That is also at the heart of engaging conversations.
01:00:03.920 --> 01:00:07.519
This program has never been about speaking for people.
01:00:07.519 --> 01:00:17.199
It's about giving people the opportunity to use their own voice, share their experiences, and perhaps even help somebody else see the world a little differently.
01:00:17.199 --> 01:00:31.280
Whatever your own views are on some of the subjects we discussed, including voluntary assisted dying, I hope that George's story encourages you to think more deeply about life, dignity, purpose, and how we use the time we have.
01:00:31.280 --> 01:00:33.039
And there is plenty more ahead.
01:00:33.039 --> 01:00:42.079
In upcoming episodes, we'll explore Ballet Without Borders and the belief that opportunity should never be reserved only for those who can afford it.
01:00:42.079 --> 01:00:50.800
We'll also hear the story behind Beat the Burn and the firefighters supporting children and families affected by serious burn injuries.
01:00:50.800 --> 01:01:00.079
And we'll also continue taking engaging conversations into business communities, regional Australia, and some very interesting places along the way.
01:01:00.079 --> 01:01:08.719
So if you haven't already, follow the programme, share this episode with someone who might benefit from hearing George's story and stay connected.
01:01:08.719 --> 01:01:13.599
George said something near the end of the conversation that I think is a fitting way to finish.
01:01:13.599 --> 01:01:16.719
We changed the world at the level of one.
01:01:16.719 --> 01:01:21.039
One conversation, one connection, one act of kindness.
01:01:21.039 --> 01:01:22.719
I'm Leon Goltsman.
01:01:22.719 --> 01:01:31.679
Until next time, stay connected, stay curious, and never underestimate the difference you can make in somebody else's life.