OM DENNE EPISODE
Complex challenges, from traffic congestion to organizational culture change, don’t exist in a vacuum. Each one is part of a larger system. You can’t solve one piece of the puzzle without understanding how it affects the whole. Systems thinking is a holistic approach to making sense of that interconnection. Paired with a human lens on what motivates people and which needs go unmet, it leads to solutions that are more effective and more responsible.
In this replay from 2024, former IDEO U Managing Director and co-founder Coe Leta Stafford talks with Deirdre Cerminaro, a former IDEO Executive Design Director and instructor of IDEO U’s Human-Centered Systems Thinking course. They cover how your starting question shapes the solutions you find, three mindsets for reframing it, and how to use a systems map as a tool for learning. Recorded live, the conversation closes with audience questions on bringing hesitant stakeholders along, choosing where to start, and not getting stuck in complexity.
We’re bringing this conversation back because systems thinking is a skill of rising importance as AI enters more of our workflows.
Want to learn more? IDEO U’s Human-Centered Systems Thinking course now includes guidance on where AI can help and how to keep that work pointed at human-centered outcomes.
Related Resources
Human-Centered Systems Thinking course from IDEO U: https://www.ideou.com/products/human-centered-systems-thinking
Creative Thinking for Complex Problem Solving course from IDEO U: https://www.ideou.com/products/creative-problem-solving
What Is Systems Thinking? A Beginner’s Guide to Mindsets, Tools, and Examples: https://www.ideou.com/blogs/inspiration/beginners-guide-systems-thinking-core-mindsets
12 Systems Thinking Resources We Love: Books, Articles, and More to Get Started: https://www.ideou.com/blogs/inspiration/systems-thinking-resources-books-articles-videos-to-get-started
How to Think in Systems for Greater Impact: https://www.ideou.com/blogs/inspiration/how-to-think-in-systems-for-greater-impact
Deirdre Cerminaro on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/deirdrecerminaro/
Earlier episode with Deirdre, “How to Think in Systems”: https://shows.acast.com/creative-confidence-podcast/episodes/69137292543edcb560b28a0d
World Economic Forum, The Future of Jobs Report 2025: https://www.weforum.org/publications/the-future-of-jobs-report-2025
In This Episode
Timestamps are approximate due to edits and ad breaks.
(00:00) What is systems thinking, and why it’s relevant now
(03:44) Deirdre Cerminaro: a decade at IDEO co-leading Systems and Strategy, now at Airbnb
(04:40) An intro to systems thinking, and why it needs a human lens
(07:04) What traffic congestion looks like when you see it as a system
(09:18) Why the starting question matters, and why it’s almost never right the first time
(11:04) A camera analogy for three systems thinking mindsets
(12:58) Mindset one: zooming in and out, and the trap of staying in one mode too long
(14:35) A food waste systems map that changes the question twice
(17:54) What a systems map is really for
(18:49) Mindset two: shifting your perspective, and what old clothing reveals about food waste
(22:53) Mindset three: checking your own lens, and why mental models are so hard to see
(24:35) Reflection questions for spotting your own biases, with a sustainability expert as the test case
(27:26) How the three mindsets help anticipate unintended consequences
(31:08) Lightning question: what’s inspiring Deirdre lately, from Dubai’s Museum of the Future
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