Dr. Tina Saw:
I actually get that question a lot is, "How do you know how to do that? Is there a book? Did you go somewhere to learn all this?" I'm like, "No. I just put myself out there and I found people who believed in the same mission and just brought a team of people to make it all happen." It's just finding the right passion people, selling them on your idea and your values, and then being like, "I'm all in."
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
On Contrary to Ordinary, we explore the motivations, lives and characters of innovators who see limitless potential around them. Through these conversations, we hope to provide insight into how you can emulate the mindsets of these extraordinary people in your own life and work. My name is Dr. Kim Kutsch and I spent over 20 years in dentistry before creating CariFree 20 years ago. We offer a range of dental products to the industry and the public that promote the health and wellness of people suffering from the disease of dental caries. I have to say I'm a big fan of this week's guest. Dr. Tina Saw is a dentist and like me, a serial entrepreneur. She's revolutionizing the dental industry as the founder of Light Solutions Company, Harmony Health and Oral Genome.
I'll let Tina tell you a little bit more about the first two, but to latter uses saliva testing to identify potential health issues before they arise. I sometimes support Tina with advice and guidance. And it's a real privilege to watch her and Oral Genome grow. This conversation took place at SmileCon 2023 in Orlando, Florida. So you might hear some background noise and maybe even a little music. Tina never anticipated becoming a serial entrepreneur, but her proactive attitude naturally led her down this path.
Dr. Tina Saw:
I've always had a knack to try to fix things or if something bothered me, I'd speak up. And I think a lot of people, they go, "Oh, I want to do it. I want to do it." But I was like, "I don't really care if there's no textbook, I'm just going to go figure it out, talk to the right people and just make whatever change I want happen."
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Be the change that you want to see.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Exactly.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And have the courage to go do that.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Exactly.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah. Oh, that's awesome, Tina. How do you go about doing that? Where's the inspiration come from? I often tell people is, "You don't really have a choice to not do it." Does this land for you?
Dr. Tina Saw:
Exactly. I think that's what innovators do. You see something and you're like... In the middle of the night, I literally sleep and I'm having dreams of how can I fix it? And I wake up. But the next thing is I'm also really excited. When I wake up I'm like, "Okay, it's not work for me to try to find the solution to this."
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
When you're talking like that, you just light up. I can picture you first thing in the morning, "I'm so excited today. And I wrote down this idea last night and I can't wait to get out there."
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah. I literally write it down. I actually have a notebook that I have on my nightstand and I'll just write it down. "Do this and do that." Or, "Oh my gosh, this is such a great idea." I think in life we can take inspiration from anywhere, and I think that's part of the reason why I carry a notebook is I see something, it's not even at a dental conference since we're here, but anywhere that I walk and I'm like, "That's genius. Can we bring that into what we're doing?" And it's funny, I have a trademark and that literally came from an inspiration while talking to somebody and I wrote that down and it's trademarked today.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Oh, that is so cool.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
That's awesome. So Tina, tell me a little bit about your educational history.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
You went to dental school.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah. So I went to Loma Linda University School of Dentistry in Loma Linda, California, which is in Southern California.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Palm Desert, beautiful place.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah. Palm Desert, graduated in 2014, was a Seventh-day Adventist, so that's probably why I went to that school in university. My great-grandfather was a pastor. And yeah, it was a really great school because we were taught to make man whole, and I've always carried that mission in everything that I do in my practice. And also, I'm sure we'll talk about later, but even in my companies and how can we bring more to our communities?
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah. So you were in dental school, you were a student there.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And then you graduated and you practiced for a while.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And then you became this entrepreneur and you started a couple of companies.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yes, I did.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And so I'm sure that there are a lot of young dentists out there going, "How did she do that?" Give us just a little hint of what was that journey like for you? Where'd that come from?
Dr. Tina Saw:
After graduating dental school, I'll be honest, my dream was just to be an associate, maybe have children and go home at five o'clock. And to me, dentistry was just a steady job. But then I was a little bit, this is coming to my innovator space, I was a little bothered by how the dental practices were run. And I saw it as a patient mill. I had worked for some big corporations, and I started my own boutique practice. And I really focused on prevention in those practices. Just like everybody was hit in March of 2020, I remember because the day that we were told to close by the California Dental Association, ADA-
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right, the CDC.
Dr. Tina Saw:
The CDC, it was the day after my birthday. And I remember going home and I was like, "It'll be just a two-week close." And it extended out to three months. And then at that time, I had a lot of time to reflect. I was a practice owner and I started thinking about problems in dentistry. And one of them was how we tested our saliva, how we help our patients be more proactive about their dental care. And I started pursuing that idea. And at the same time I've been doing other startups too, just having little side hustles that ended up being big. And it turns out I realized that if you find a problem in your career, everyone has the same problem and if you can solve it, you can actually build a company off of it.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Everybody wants that solution, right?
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
If you solve it for yourself, pretty soon people are going to be like, "Can you make that for me? I want that." Right?
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah. And that's exactly what it was. I have a company, it's still there today, Light Solutions Company. I'm not as involved, but I had a problem which was lights were wired and they were getting caught on the PPE because we had to wear those N95 masks, the face shield, everything when we came back.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
All right. What a pain in the neck, having the light wires-
Dr. Tina Saw:
Exactly.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
... and battery packs and oh.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Exactly. And I found a wireless light that I had made a prototype of. And I put it on my face shield, posted it on social media. And before I knew it, everybody was like, "What is that? Where'd you get that?" And then before I knew it, I had Light Solutions Company just take off to the races and everybody wanted. Today we're one of the top wireless selling companies out there.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And I think that's something when I talk about extraordinary and extraordinary people, they tend to see problems and where other people just see problems and go, "Oh, I really hate, this is such a pain." Extraordinary people see problems and go, "Oh, I know how to fix that." Or they even see a fix and go, "Oh no, I can fix it better than that. I have a better way." Right?
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And you don't feel limited or bound to... Would you say you're a creative person?
Dr. Tina Saw:
I have always been a creative person. Art was part of my life, music was part of my life. I would do drawings, paintings, art was my avenue and outlet.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Okay.
Dr. Tina Saw:
So I think that's probably the reason why I went into dentistry because I was like, "Maybe I'll do a little art on the teeth." But then I realized if you have too many of the occlusion points and it's beautiful, patients come back in pain.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah. "I put in this perfect tooth and now I have to go grind it down because it doesn't fit well."
Dr. Tina Saw:
It doesn't fit well.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
They're in pain. I want to go back to your origin story. So tell me about your childhood. You were creative as a child. What was it like growing up?
Dr. Tina Saw:
I was definitely very shy. I was always behind... the short kid, behind my mother's legs or my dad's legs or something, hiding. I was always though somebody who observed the world and kind of just saw what was going on and was very introspective about things. Art was my way to be quiet and creatively let out what my thoughts and processes were. Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
So you were very artistic. That was kind of alone time, you were shy. I got to tell you, Tina, I'm trying to picture a little 4 or 5-year-old Tina clinging behind her mom's leg being shy because you are so not shy.
Dr. Tina Saw:
I know. It's weird because I think that now I have been okay with being out there and putting my entrepreneurial's journey out there, how I feel as a mother or a woman in business, it's different. And I think actually, that goes back to creativity because I write a lot too.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Okay.
Dr. Tina Saw:
And so I put my thoughts on paper, which then I put that on LinkedIn or Instagram or Facebook. And people seem to really like it when you're really transparent about your journey and what's going on in your life. It's not all beautiful and all roses out there.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
I think that's one of the things about social media that's a challenge is everybody wants to post, "Oh, look at me, I'm having a perfect dinner out. Went with my perfect husband in my perfect life and-"
Dr. Tina Saw:
My well-behaved kids.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
"... my children are perfectly behaved." And life isn't like that.
Dr. Tina Saw:
It isn't.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And so I think that we learned from other people who are genuine and honest and saying, "My life ain't perfect. Right now..." And I know right now you're building this startup Oral Genome and you're about to launch product. I know what your life looks like at the moment.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Oh, yes.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
There is no work-life balance, it's just work. There is no life in the balance there, right?
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yes.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And I think people that haven't done that can't appreciate that, but I know what you're going through right at the moment. And so you being able to share that I think is huge.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you. Yeah. I think that a lot of... Doing a startup is something that I never... I think I had told you before is if I knew how much work it would be, I probably would not have done it. But I'm glad I was naive and I'm glad I was blinded because we are doing such amazing things. We have amazing partners in place right now and amazing mentors like you.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Well, thank you, Tina, but you're really pushing this ball.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And I think that's one of the things too, when we stop and look back and reflect on that. When I was young, my first startup, I started a company because I couldn't think of a good reason not to.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
I had a solution. Now I could look at a solution at a startup, and I can think of 100 reasons not to start that company, right?
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
I know how much work it takes, I know of where there are pitfalls, where things could go wrong. But I think sometimes us not knowing what the future holds is a blessing at times because we plow forward with courage, not realizing how difficult or challenging the battle is going to be.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Otherwise, we probably wouldn't do it, right?
Dr. Tina Saw:
Exactly.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
I am not the only one who would've thought twice about starting a company. In 2023, Jensen Huang, the co-founder and CEO of Nvidia told the Acquired Podcast that, "Building Nvidia turned out to have been a million times harder than I expected it to be, than any of us expected it to be." But what about the people who do it anyway? Well, if you're one of these people, a little self-reflection and knowledge can go a long way. A fantastic article by the Startup Factory walks through the many pitfalls and thinking traps that first time founders fall into. We put a link to this resource in the show notes. I highly recommend checking it out. Part of Tina's success has been down to her drive and determination. Two qualities she had from early on in her life.
Dr. Tina Saw:
One of the things that impacted me when I was younger was the fact that me being shy, and I was always that underdog, people didn't say I was the smartest person. But I would say then in college, I had this weird drive to make that change, to just change the trajectory of what people thought of me.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Mm-hmm. I can show the world I'm going to reformat myself.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah.
Dr. Tina Saw:
And now I'm just more of that innovator and that person who's going to think outside the box. And I think also being shy, I cared a lot of what other people thought, and now it's like, "I don't care what they think, I'm just going to go and do it."
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
You've got your mission, your vision, and I'm going forward hell or high water, I don't care what you think, I'm doing it. To be a successful entrepreneur, it takes that level of grit, burn the ships on the harbor, we're doing this.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And I think that one thing I see in extraordinary people is they get a lot, and particularly entrepreneurs, particularly, if you are a threatening change, that's how people always perceive change.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yes.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
So what you're about to do is change the whole world of saliva diagnostics. And people, they should be embracing it, but a lot of people are threatened by it for I have no idea, I can't imagine why, right?
Dr. Tina Saw:
I know. And we're so young and everything, and I'm like, "Why are you threatened about what I'm doing?"
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right, right. Exactly, right?
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah. We're trying to help reduce caries.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
We're trying to make the world a better place, we're trying to help people.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And you're probably like, "Huh, why are you giving me all this flack and criticism and what have you?"
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And I think somewhere along the way you have to tune it out, have this determination, backbone, and grit to just push forward. And I see that in extraordinary people being able to just do that. And I think there's an element, see if this lands for you. I think there's an element in our profession of envy.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And you've only been out of school nine years from dental school.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
So you're a young dentist.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Oh, thanks.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Well, how dare you do a couple of highly successful startup companies and now you're not even practicing or you're only practicing minimal hours? And so oh, well, it's either they're really jealous of the fact that, "Oh, well, she doesn't have to sit at the chair anymore, she has figured out some other way to be successful."
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And they're jealous of that, or they have envy. And so then we get really hypercritical of that person and try and shoot them down. And at some point in time, you just get comfortable with, "You know what? I don't care."
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Take your best shot, I don't care.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah. And that's the thing is it's at this point, I really don't care. I started a nonprofit, it's called Harmony Health Foundation. We help people in the underserved communities get access to care. And sometimes wait times are really long for patients with Medicaid Insurance or if they don't even have insurance. And then I've gotten people who I thought were friends that would say, "I think that you're just overstretching yourself. You should be focusing on just practicing dentistry or just your company." And at this point, I've just filtered all those noises out, because to me, it's not additional work, it's just what I'm passionate about. And I had to spend a lot of time... I went through therapy too because I realized what was holding me back was being a people pleaser. And I've worked through that and it's like, "I need to make myself happy, do what I want to do, because ultimately, helping more people and impacting lives is what is making me happy." And I realized these people were saying these things because they were just really jealous, they wanted-
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
They wanted what you were doing.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
They saw that. And it's like, "Yeah, I'm going to criticize you for it." And you brought up, I love your foundation, by the way.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Thank you.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And you are such a giving person as well. And so I think that's another trait I really identify in extraordinary people as they're very grateful, thankful, and they give, they want to give back. What drives them is they want to make a world a better place.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Is that an accurate description of you, Tina?
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah, I would say that. I learned pretty early on that there's something very fulfilling about the people that I've helped in the past. I will always remember those words. There was one time I actually helped a homeless person off the street and we did a full smile makeover on him in my practice. He ended up getting a job and getting off his feet because people judge you right away on your smile. And those are the things that just make me feel super, super good. And that was kind of my first entrance into like, "Okay, I did that. Went on some trips, mission trips overseas to help." But what are ways that we can do it in our own US community? And I'm really excited because we're going to go work with the homeless population. And then we're working with kids with developmental disabilities in Tennessee. These are the things that make me happy when I go to bed.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right. You feel like you've really helped somebody else out.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yes.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
You've really made a difference. And maybe if it was only in one homeless person's life, but you made a difference.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah. So what Harmony Health is is how can we help more people, more than just one person? How can we help people at scale who can't necessarily get dental health?
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah. Giving a voice to the people that don't have a voice.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Exactly.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Hey, Contrary to Ordinary listeners, I want to tell you about my company, CariFree. We offer affordable science-based solutions to common dental health concerns for the whole family, banish cavities for good, and welcome in a healthy smile and a great first impression. Visit CariFree.com for more details. Now, back to the show.
At this point in your career, what do you say to a young dentist that says, "How did you do that? I want to do that." Or how do you inspire and encourage them to take that step?
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah, I actually get that question a lot is, "How do you know how to do that? Is there a book? Did you go somewhere to learn all this? I'm like, "No. I just put myself out there. And I found people like you who believed in the same mission and just brought a team of people to make it all happen." With Oral Genome, I know nothing about science. I know science from school, but technology and development, finding the right people to do that, finding people to do mobile app technology, finding people who can help with Harmony Health. It's just finding the right passion people, selling them on your idea and your values, and then being like, "I'm all in."
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
I think that's just one of the challenges is there aren't any books.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
There aren't any classes. How do you do a startup?
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And really, I think now maybe some of the business schools, I know young students, I got a grandson in studying business right now - pre-law. And in his first business class, they had to do a startup, right?
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
As a freshman in college. And so he's asking me for all this, "Grandpa, how do I do that? How do I do this? And how do I deal with this? How do I deal with that?" And what a tremendous learning experience, just to get one under your belt so that it takes that fear and uncertainty away. And kind of now I think he sees the world as like, "Oh, I could do that." Right?
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
You're going to make mistakes. And I always tell people, it's like, "Well, you don't have an MBA." And I'm like, "Well, I got my MBA on the street."
Dr. Tina Saw:
That's exactly what it is. And I thought that too, I was like, "Should I get an MBA?" And then I'm like, everybody was like, "No, you are literally getting your MBA right now."
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
You're getting your MBA, right? Because the MBA is not going to teach you how to do what you need to learn how to do to be able to do a successful startup.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And one of the things you learn along the way is not necessarily just what to do, but the really important thing is what not to do.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Oh, yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Because there's so many pitfalls. And I see so many young entrepreneurs fall into this trap. And they make what seems to be like a small error in the beginning, and it cascades and it ends up taking them out, right? They don't succeed. 9 out of 10... I'll rephrase that. Only 1 out of 10 startups is successful, it is still in business a year later, right?
Dr. Tina Saw:
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
1 out of 10, those aren't great odds.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Exactly. And errors are inevitable, and I've already made some errors, but-
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
We all have.
Dr. Tina Saw:
... it's just how you recover from them. And you have to also have that support system, that team of advisors and mentors to pull you out of those errors.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
From the outside, many might look at Tina's life and think, "Wow, she has it all. I'd trade places with her in a heartbeat." However, I know what Tina's really going through right now. 80 hour work weeks while raising two young children. Life has its seasons, and Tina is undoubtedly in a particularly demanding one right now. On this show, we often discuss the concept of work-life balance. And I previously mentioned Ken Coleman, the career coach and author who believes that work-life balance is a myth. According to Coleman, our relationship with work fluctuates and evolves. We'll go through periods of high intensity work and others where we're dedicating time to our private lives. I wonder, aside from her mentors, who supports Tina in managing it all.
Dr. Tina Saw:
I moved my parents, they live close to me. So they helped me out a ton with the kids.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Thank you Mom and Dad.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Thank you, Mom and Dad. And then it's bringing in a housekeeper and getting those assisted... Being okay with not being that perfect housewife and house mom and all of that, and so-
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And not having to do it all, be the supermom-
Dr. Tina Saw:
No. Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
... and have all the answers.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Exactly. And I'm such a perfectionist in my... I thought when I would get married, I would just have this perfect house, dinner would be on the table and the house would always be clean and be magazine perfect. And then when you put in children in there and you're just at a point where you're just kind of like, "Okay, let them play with the Amazon boxes. The crayons are all over the floor, but they're creative and they're learning and it's totally fine." So that picture perfect, you just have to throw it out the door and be okay with it.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right.
Dr. Tina Saw:
And the thing is, they do see me work a lot. They do comment, they're like, "Mom, you're always working." And they admire that. And I think it instills a lot of good values in them.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
So you're modeling some really great work ethic for them, right? At the same time you're doing this. And maybe you don't realize how years down the road they're going to say, "Mom, but I really appreciate what you did or what you went through." And you're creating opportunities for your kids.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah. And it's funny because I know they know I'm an entrepreneur. And I see a little bits and pieces of them and the way I talk and the way I talk about my company, my startup, and I see them almost doing that in some aspects and trying to sell items too. And I'm like... My daughter tried to sell her used stuffed animal for $70 to the neighbor, and I was like, "Oh, honey, I think that's not a fair market value there." But she's like, "This is $70 because it's a chameleon and it changes color." I'm like, "Oh, wow, for five years old, you're really great at sales."
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
She's going to be working in one of your companies at some point in time, right?
Dr. Tina Saw:
I know.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
She's going to be running the sales department, or she's going to be in charge of your foundation and raising money from everybody. It's like, oh yeah, selling $70 chameleons to people to raise money for your Harmony Foundation. That's really funny.
I just have to cut in here and let you know that at this point in our conversation, a New Orleans brass band walked by. I can tell you that we had to resist the urge to get up and dance. But as you know, I'm a professional and our show must go on.
You mentioned that you spent some time in therapy.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Learning how to take care of yourself and make yourself happy rather than making everybody else happy.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yes.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right? I was just going to share a quick story with you. I spent some time at therapy myself and much better person because of it, but I also had a life coach. And I was in the midst of a startup, and I was really frustrated, because people didn't get it. And I had the solution. And I said to her one day, I said, "Why does it have to be so hard?"
Dr. Tina Saw:
Oh, yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right? Why does it have to be so hard?
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And she said to me, "There's a belief." And I went, "Uh, Wait a minute. Is it hard because that I'm thinking that it's hard and I am subconsciously creating this environment that makes it hard for me?" And she said, "There's a thought." And I literally went back and changed my attitude and went, "This is going to be so easy. People are going to see this." And it literally changed things for me, Tina. Our brains are so amazing. And the minute I changed my attitude, you know what? It's going to be a lot of work, but this is going to be fun, exciting, and easy, and I'm so blessed. I started having those thought processes. And you know what? It changed. Amazingly changed. And so I just wanted to share that with you because I know you're going to face a lot of times that are quite frankly hard. And so how do you deal with challenge? That's a question I wanted to ask you.
Dr. Tina Saw:
I call Kim and I go, "Hey, there's this problem." Which I've done several times already.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And I'm always like, "Tina, don't worry about it, it's not that big. Let's talk this through."
Dr. Tina Saw:
I know. That's what you do. And then afterwards, I'm like, "Okay, it's going to be okay." And it actually has always been okay after I've called you in desperation.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Well, the one thing I've loved being involved in your startup, being involved watching you, I feel like I'm a fan who's just in the corner cheering you on all the time because that gives me... I just can't begin to tell you how much satisfaction and happiness and joy that brings to me to see you be successful. It's so much fun for me. Tina, we're kind of winding this down here. I love this live music that we have. I'm feeling just jazzy right now myself, like I said, I want to get up and dance. Tina, I have a question for you. You're 35. What does life look like for Tina Saw at age 45? Any clue?
Dr. Tina Saw:
Oh, gosh, I have no idea. My life keeps evolving, I'm going with the flow of things and discovering new things all the time. If I were... Where I'm really passionate right now is sitting where our foundation, our nonprofit is sitting and it just makes me feel so good to help. I sleep better at night to be able to help all these people who just otherwise couldn't get dental care.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right.
Dr. Tina Saw:
And I think that's why I was brought into this world is to help people who can't. And I grew up extremely poor, and dentistry wasn't something that we could always spend on. And I'm feeling I have the capability to be able to give back.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
You have the opportunity and the blessing to be able to go provide that so somebody else doesn't go without care-
Dr. Tina Saw:
Exactly.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
... and you want to give back. Tina, I can so see you having the most successful foundation, providing care to all the people that are in need 10 years from now. And the smile on your face as you talk about that, Tina, I so see that. I so appreciate you being here today. Anything else you want to say before we sign off today?
Dr. Tina Saw:
No. It's been great being on your podcast, and I'm glad to get the word out what we're doing. And thank you so much for interviewing because I love all the stories that you put on your podcast. Everybody has a story behind what they do and who they are.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Thank you so much Dr. Tina Saw for joining me today. And thank you for going on this inspiring journey with me. Around here, we aim to inspire and create connections. We can't do it without you. If this conversation moved you, made you smile, or scratch that little itch of curiosity today, please share it with the extraordinary people in your life. And if you do one thing today, let it be extraordinary. Bye for now.
I actually get that question a lot is, "How do you know how to do that? Is there a book? Did you go somewhere to learn all this?" I'm like, "No. I just put myself out there and I found people who believed in the same mission and just brought a team of people to make it all happen." It's just finding the right passion people, selling them on your idea and your values, and then being like, "I'm all in."
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
On Contrary to Ordinary, we explore the motivations, lives and characters of innovators who see limitless potential around them. Through these conversations, we hope to provide insight into how you can emulate the mindsets of these extraordinary people in your own life and work. My name is Dr. Kim Kutsch and I spent over 20 years in dentistry before creating CariFree 20 years ago. We offer a range of dental products to the industry and the public that promote the health and wellness of people suffering from the disease of dental caries. I have to say I'm a big fan of this week's guest. Dr. Tina Saw is a dentist and like me, a serial entrepreneur. She's revolutionizing the dental industry as the founder of Light Solutions Company, Harmony Health and Oral Genome.
I'll let Tina tell you a little bit more about the first two, but to latter uses saliva testing to identify potential health issues before they arise. I sometimes support Tina with advice and guidance. And it's a real privilege to watch her and Oral Genome grow. This conversation took place at SmileCon 2023 in Orlando, Florida. So you might hear some background noise and maybe even a little music. Tina never anticipated becoming a serial entrepreneur, but her proactive attitude naturally led her down this path.
Dr. Tina Saw:
I've always had a knack to try to fix things or if something bothered me, I'd speak up. And I think a lot of people, they go, "Oh, I want to do it. I want to do it." But I was like, "I don't really care if there's no textbook, I'm just going to go figure it out, talk to the right people and just make whatever change I want happen."
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Be the change that you want to see.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Exactly.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And have the courage to go do that.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Exactly.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah. Oh, that's awesome, Tina. How do you go about doing that? Where's the inspiration come from? I often tell people is, "You don't really have a choice to not do it." Does this land for you?
Dr. Tina Saw:
Exactly. I think that's what innovators do. You see something and you're like... In the middle of the night, I literally sleep and I'm having dreams of how can I fix it? And I wake up. But the next thing is I'm also really excited. When I wake up I'm like, "Okay, it's not work for me to try to find the solution to this."
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
When you're talking like that, you just light up. I can picture you first thing in the morning, "I'm so excited today. And I wrote down this idea last night and I can't wait to get out there."
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah. I literally write it down. I actually have a notebook that I have on my nightstand and I'll just write it down. "Do this and do that." Or, "Oh my gosh, this is such a great idea." I think in life we can take inspiration from anywhere, and I think that's part of the reason why I carry a notebook is I see something, it's not even at a dental conference since we're here, but anywhere that I walk and I'm like, "That's genius. Can we bring that into what we're doing?" And it's funny, I have a trademark and that literally came from an inspiration while talking to somebody and I wrote that down and it's trademarked today.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Oh, that is so cool.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
That's awesome. So Tina, tell me a little bit about your educational history.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
You went to dental school.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah. So I went to Loma Linda University School of Dentistry in Loma Linda, California, which is in Southern California.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Palm Desert, beautiful place.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah. Palm Desert, graduated in 2014, was a Seventh-day Adventist, so that's probably why I went to that school in university. My great-grandfather was a pastor. And yeah, it was a really great school because we were taught to make man whole, and I've always carried that mission in everything that I do in my practice. And also, I'm sure we'll talk about later, but even in my companies and how can we bring more to our communities?
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah. So you were in dental school, you were a student there.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And then you graduated and you practiced for a while.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And then you became this entrepreneur and you started a couple of companies.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yes, I did.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And so I'm sure that there are a lot of young dentists out there going, "How did she do that?" Give us just a little hint of what was that journey like for you? Where'd that come from?
Dr. Tina Saw:
After graduating dental school, I'll be honest, my dream was just to be an associate, maybe have children and go home at five o'clock. And to me, dentistry was just a steady job. But then I was a little bit, this is coming to my innovator space, I was a little bothered by how the dental practices were run. And I saw it as a patient mill. I had worked for some big corporations, and I started my own boutique practice. And I really focused on prevention in those practices. Just like everybody was hit in March of 2020, I remember because the day that we were told to close by the California Dental Association, ADA-
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right, the CDC.
Dr. Tina Saw:
The CDC, it was the day after my birthday. And I remember going home and I was like, "It'll be just a two-week close." And it extended out to three months. And then at that time, I had a lot of time to reflect. I was a practice owner and I started thinking about problems in dentistry. And one of them was how we tested our saliva, how we help our patients be more proactive about their dental care. And I started pursuing that idea. And at the same time I've been doing other startups too, just having little side hustles that ended up being big. And it turns out I realized that if you find a problem in your career, everyone has the same problem and if you can solve it, you can actually build a company off of it.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Everybody wants that solution, right?
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
If you solve it for yourself, pretty soon people are going to be like, "Can you make that for me? I want that." Right?
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah. And that's exactly what it was. I have a company, it's still there today, Light Solutions Company. I'm not as involved, but I had a problem which was lights were wired and they were getting caught on the PPE because we had to wear those N95 masks, the face shield, everything when we came back.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
All right. What a pain in the neck, having the light wires-
Dr. Tina Saw:
Exactly.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
... and battery packs and oh.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Exactly. And I found a wireless light that I had made a prototype of. And I put it on my face shield, posted it on social media. And before I knew it, everybody was like, "What is that? Where'd you get that?" And then before I knew it, I had Light Solutions Company just take off to the races and everybody wanted. Today we're one of the top wireless selling companies out there.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And I think that's something when I talk about extraordinary and extraordinary people, they tend to see problems and where other people just see problems and go, "Oh, I really hate, this is such a pain." Extraordinary people see problems and go, "Oh, I know how to fix that." Or they even see a fix and go, "Oh no, I can fix it better than that. I have a better way." Right?
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And you don't feel limited or bound to... Would you say you're a creative person?
Dr. Tina Saw:
I have always been a creative person. Art was part of my life, music was part of my life. I would do drawings, paintings, art was my avenue and outlet.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Okay.
Dr. Tina Saw:
So I think that's probably the reason why I went into dentistry because I was like, "Maybe I'll do a little art on the teeth." But then I realized if you have too many of the occlusion points and it's beautiful, patients come back in pain.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah. "I put in this perfect tooth and now I have to go grind it down because it doesn't fit well."
Dr. Tina Saw:
It doesn't fit well.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
They're in pain. I want to go back to your origin story. So tell me about your childhood. You were creative as a child. What was it like growing up?
Dr. Tina Saw:
I was definitely very shy. I was always behind... the short kid, behind my mother's legs or my dad's legs or something, hiding. I was always though somebody who observed the world and kind of just saw what was going on and was very introspective about things. Art was my way to be quiet and creatively let out what my thoughts and processes were. Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
So you were very artistic. That was kind of alone time, you were shy. I got to tell you, Tina, I'm trying to picture a little 4 or 5-year-old Tina clinging behind her mom's leg being shy because you are so not shy.
Dr. Tina Saw:
I know. It's weird because I think that now I have been okay with being out there and putting my entrepreneurial's journey out there, how I feel as a mother or a woman in business, it's different. And I think actually, that goes back to creativity because I write a lot too.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Okay.
Dr. Tina Saw:
And so I put my thoughts on paper, which then I put that on LinkedIn or Instagram or Facebook. And people seem to really like it when you're really transparent about your journey and what's going on in your life. It's not all beautiful and all roses out there.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
I think that's one of the things about social media that's a challenge is everybody wants to post, "Oh, look at me, I'm having a perfect dinner out. Went with my perfect husband in my perfect life and-"
Dr. Tina Saw:
My well-behaved kids.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
"... my children are perfectly behaved." And life isn't like that.
Dr. Tina Saw:
It isn't.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And so I think that we learned from other people who are genuine and honest and saying, "My life ain't perfect. Right now..." And I know right now you're building this startup Oral Genome and you're about to launch product. I know what your life looks like at the moment.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Oh, yes.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
There is no work-life balance, it's just work. There is no life in the balance there, right?
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yes.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And I think people that haven't done that can't appreciate that, but I know what you're going through right at the moment. And so you being able to share that I think is huge.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you. Yeah. I think that a lot of... Doing a startup is something that I never... I think I had told you before is if I knew how much work it would be, I probably would not have done it. But I'm glad I was naive and I'm glad I was blinded because we are doing such amazing things. We have amazing partners in place right now and amazing mentors like you.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Well, thank you, Tina, but you're really pushing this ball.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And I think that's one of the things too, when we stop and look back and reflect on that. When I was young, my first startup, I started a company because I couldn't think of a good reason not to.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
I had a solution. Now I could look at a solution at a startup, and I can think of 100 reasons not to start that company, right?
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
I know how much work it takes, I know of where there are pitfalls, where things could go wrong. But I think sometimes us not knowing what the future holds is a blessing at times because we plow forward with courage, not realizing how difficult or challenging the battle is going to be.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Otherwise, we probably wouldn't do it, right?
Dr. Tina Saw:
Exactly.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
I am not the only one who would've thought twice about starting a company. In 2023, Jensen Huang, the co-founder and CEO of Nvidia told the Acquired Podcast that, "Building Nvidia turned out to have been a million times harder than I expected it to be, than any of us expected it to be." But what about the people who do it anyway? Well, if you're one of these people, a little self-reflection and knowledge can go a long way. A fantastic article by the Startup Factory walks through the many pitfalls and thinking traps that first time founders fall into. We put a link to this resource in the show notes. I highly recommend checking it out. Part of Tina's success has been down to her drive and determination. Two qualities she had from early on in her life.
Dr. Tina Saw:
One of the things that impacted me when I was younger was the fact that me being shy, and I was always that underdog, people didn't say I was the smartest person. But I would say then in college, I had this weird drive to make that change, to just change the trajectory of what people thought of me.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Mm-hmm. I can show the world I'm going to reformat myself.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah.
Dr. Tina Saw:
And now I'm just more of that innovator and that person who's going to think outside the box. And I think also being shy, I cared a lot of what other people thought, and now it's like, "I don't care what they think, I'm just going to go and do it."
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
You've got your mission, your vision, and I'm going forward hell or high water, I don't care what you think, I'm doing it. To be a successful entrepreneur, it takes that level of grit, burn the ships on the harbor, we're doing this.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And I think that one thing I see in extraordinary people is they get a lot, and particularly entrepreneurs, particularly, if you are a threatening change, that's how people always perceive change.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yes.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
So what you're about to do is change the whole world of saliva diagnostics. And people, they should be embracing it, but a lot of people are threatened by it for I have no idea, I can't imagine why, right?
Dr. Tina Saw:
I know. And we're so young and everything, and I'm like, "Why are you threatened about what I'm doing?"
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right, right. Exactly, right?
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah. We're trying to help reduce caries.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
We're trying to make the world a better place, we're trying to help people.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And you're probably like, "Huh, why are you giving me all this flack and criticism and what have you?"
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And I think somewhere along the way you have to tune it out, have this determination, backbone, and grit to just push forward. And I see that in extraordinary people being able to just do that. And I think there's an element, see if this lands for you. I think there's an element in our profession of envy.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And you've only been out of school nine years from dental school.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
So you're a young dentist.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Oh, thanks.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Well, how dare you do a couple of highly successful startup companies and now you're not even practicing or you're only practicing minimal hours? And so oh, well, it's either they're really jealous of the fact that, "Oh, well, she doesn't have to sit at the chair anymore, she has figured out some other way to be successful."
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And they're jealous of that, or they have envy. And so then we get really hypercritical of that person and try and shoot them down. And at some point in time, you just get comfortable with, "You know what? I don't care."
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Take your best shot, I don't care.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah. And that's the thing is it's at this point, I really don't care. I started a nonprofit, it's called Harmony Health Foundation. We help people in the underserved communities get access to care. And sometimes wait times are really long for patients with Medicaid Insurance or if they don't even have insurance. And then I've gotten people who I thought were friends that would say, "I think that you're just overstretching yourself. You should be focusing on just practicing dentistry or just your company." And at this point, I've just filtered all those noises out, because to me, it's not additional work, it's just what I'm passionate about. And I had to spend a lot of time... I went through therapy too because I realized what was holding me back was being a people pleaser. And I've worked through that and it's like, "I need to make myself happy, do what I want to do, because ultimately, helping more people and impacting lives is what is making me happy." And I realized these people were saying these things because they were just really jealous, they wanted-
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
They wanted what you were doing.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
They saw that. And it's like, "Yeah, I'm going to criticize you for it." And you brought up, I love your foundation, by the way.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Thank you.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And you are such a giving person as well. And so I think that's another trait I really identify in extraordinary people as they're very grateful, thankful, and they give, they want to give back. What drives them is they want to make a world a better place.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Is that an accurate description of you, Tina?
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah, I would say that. I learned pretty early on that there's something very fulfilling about the people that I've helped in the past. I will always remember those words. There was one time I actually helped a homeless person off the street and we did a full smile makeover on him in my practice. He ended up getting a job and getting off his feet because people judge you right away on your smile. And those are the things that just make me feel super, super good. And that was kind of my first entrance into like, "Okay, I did that. Went on some trips, mission trips overseas to help." But what are ways that we can do it in our own US community? And I'm really excited because we're going to go work with the homeless population. And then we're working with kids with developmental disabilities in Tennessee. These are the things that make me happy when I go to bed.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right. You feel like you've really helped somebody else out.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yes.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
You've really made a difference. And maybe if it was only in one homeless person's life, but you made a difference.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah. So what Harmony Health is is how can we help more people, more than just one person? How can we help people at scale who can't necessarily get dental health?
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah. Giving a voice to the people that don't have a voice.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Exactly.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Hey, Contrary to Ordinary listeners, I want to tell you about my company, CariFree. We offer affordable science-based solutions to common dental health concerns for the whole family, banish cavities for good, and welcome in a healthy smile and a great first impression. Visit CariFree.com for more details. Now, back to the show.
At this point in your career, what do you say to a young dentist that says, "How did you do that? I want to do that." Or how do you inspire and encourage them to take that step?
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah, I actually get that question a lot is, "How do you know how to do that? Is there a book? Did you go somewhere to learn all this? I'm like, "No. I just put myself out there. And I found people like you who believed in the same mission and just brought a team of people to make it all happen." With Oral Genome, I know nothing about science. I know science from school, but technology and development, finding the right people to do that, finding people to do mobile app technology, finding people who can help with Harmony Health. It's just finding the right passion people, selling them on your idea and your values, and then being like, "I'm all in."
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
I think that's just one of the challenges is there aren't any books.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
There aren't any classes. How do you do a startup?
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And really, I think now maybe some of the business schools, I know young students, I got a grandson in studying business right now - pre-law. And in his first business class, they had to do a startup, right?
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
As a freshman in college. And so he's asking me for all this, "Grandpa, how do I do that? How do I do this? And how do I deal with this? How do I deal with that?" And what a tremendous learning experience, just to get one under your belt so that it takes that fear and uncertainty away. And kind of now I think he sees the world as like, "Oh, I could do that." Right?
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
You're going to make mistakes. And I always tell people, it's like, "Well, you don't have an MBA." And I'm like, "Well, I got my MBA on the street."
Dr. Tina Saw:
That's exactly what it is. And I thought that too, I was like, "Should I get an MBA?" And then I'm like, everybody was like, "No, you are literally getting your MBA right now."
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
You're getting your MBA, right? Because the MBA is not going to teach you how to do what you need to learn how to do to be able to do a successful startup.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And one of the things you learn along the way is not necessarily just what to do, but the really important thing is what not to do.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Oh, yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Because there's so many pitfalls. And I see so many young entrepreneurs fall into this trap. And they make what seems to be like a small error in the beginning, and it cascades and it ends up taking them out, right? They don't succeed. 9 out of 10... I'll rephrase that. Only 1 out of 10 startups is successful, it is still in business a year later, right?
Dr. Tina Saw:
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
1 out of 10, those aren't great odds.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Exactly. And errors are inevitable, and I've already made some errors, but-
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
We all have.
Dr. Tina Saw:
... it's just how you recover from them. And you have to also have that support system, that team of advisors and mentors to pull you out of those errors.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
From the outside, many might look at Tina's life and think, "Wow, she has it all. I'd trade places with her in a heartbeat." However, I know what Tina's really going through right now. 80 hour work weeks while raising two young children. Life has its seasons, and Tina is undoubtedly in a particularly demanding one right now. On this show, we often discuss the concept of work-life balance. And I previously mentioned Ken Coleman, the career coach and author who believes that work-life balance is a myth. According to Coleman, our relationship with work fluctuates and evolves. We'll go through periods of high intensity work and others where we're dedicating time to our private lives. I wonder, aside from her mentors, who supports Tina in managing it all.
Dr. Tina Saw:
I moved my parents, they live close to me. So they helped me out a ton with the kids.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Thank you Mom and Dad.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Thank you, Mom and Dad. And then it's bringing in a housekeeper and getting those assisted... Being okay with not being that perfect housewife and house mom and all of that, and so-
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And not having to do it all, be the supermom-
Dr. Tina Saw:
No. Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
... and have all the answers.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Exactly. And I'm such a perfectionist in my... I thought when I would get married, I would just have this perfect house, dinner would be on the table and the house would always be clean and be magazine perfect. And then when you put in children in there and you're just at a point where you're just kind of like, "Okay, let them play with the Amazon boxes. The crayons are all over the floor, but they're creative and they're learning and it's totally fine." So that picture perfect, you just have to throw it out the door and be okay with it.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right.
Dr. Tina Saw:
And the thing is, they do see me work a lot. They do comment, they're like, "Mom, you're always working." And they admire that. And I think it instills a lot of good values in them.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
So you're modeling some really great work ethic for them, right? At the same time you're doing this. And maybe you don't realize how years down the road they're going to say, "Mom, but I really appreciate what you did or what you went through." And you're creating opportunities for your kids.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah. And it's funny because I know they know I'm an entrepreneur. And I see a little bits and pieces of them and the way I talk and the way I talk about my company, my startup, and I see them almost doing that in some aspects and trying to sell items too. And I'm like... My daughter tried to sell her used stuffed animal for $70 to the neighbor, and I was like, "Oh, honey, I think that's not a fair market value there." But she's like, "This is $70 because it's a chameleon and it changes color." I'm like, "Oh, wow, for five years old, you're really great at sales."
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
She's going to be working in one of your companies at some point in time, right?
Dr. Tina Saw:
I know.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
She's going to be running the sales department, or she's going to be in charge of your foundation and raising money from everybody. It's like, oh yeah, selling $70 chameleons to people to raise money for your Harmony Foundation. That's really funny.
I just have to cut in here and let you know that at this point in our conversation, a New Orleans brass band walked by. I can tell you that we had to resist the urge to get up and dance. But as you know, I'm a professional and our show must go on.
You mentioned that you spent some time in therapy.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Learning how to take care of yourself and make yourself happy rather than making everybody else happy.
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yes.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right? I was just going to share a quick story with you. I spent some time at therapy myself and much better person because of it, but I also had a life coach. And I was in the midst of a startup, and I was really frustrated, because people didn't get it. And I had the solution. And I said to her one day, I said, "Why does it have to be so hard?"
Dr. Tina Saw:
Oh, yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right? Why does it have to be so hard?
Dr. Tina Saw:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And she said to me, "There's a belief." And I went, "Uh, Wait a minute. Is it hard because that I'm thinking that it's hard and I am subconsciously creating this environment that makes it hard for me?" And she said, "There's a thought." And I literally went back and changed my attitude and went, "This is going to be so easy. People are going to see this." And it literally changed things for me, Tina. Our brains are so amazing. And the minute I changed my attitude, you know what? It's going to be a lot of work, but this is going to be fun, exciting, and easy, and I'm so blessed. I started having those thought processes. And you know what? It changed. Amazingly changed. And so I just wanted to share that with you because I know you're going to face a lot of times that are quite frankly hard. And so how do you deal with challenge? That's a question I wanted to ask you.
Dr. Tina Saw:
I call Kim and I go, "Hey, there's this problem." Which I've done several times already.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And I'm always like, "Tina, don't worry about it, it's not that big. Let's talk this through."
Dr. Tina Saw:
I know. That's what you do. And then afterwards, I'm like, "Okay, it's going to be okay." And it actually has always been okay after I've called you in desperation.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Well, the one thing I've loved being involved in your startup, being involved watching you, I feel like I'm a fan who's just in the corner cheering you on all the time because that gives me... I just can't begin to tell you how much satisfaction and happiness and joy that brings to me to see you be successful. It's so much fun for me. Tina, we're kind of winding this down here. I love this live music that we have. I'm feeling just jazzy right now myself, like I said, I want to get up and dance. Tina, I have a question for you. You're 35. What does life look like for Tina Saw at age 45? Any clue?
Dr. Tina Saw:
Oh, gosh, I have no idea. My life keeps evolving, I'm going with the flow of things and discovering new things all the time. If I were... Where I'm really passionate right now is sitting where our foundation, our nonprofit is sitting and it just makes me feel so good to help. I sleep better at night to be able to help all these people who just otherwise couldn't get dental care.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right.
Dr. Tina Saw:
And I think that's why I was brought into this world is to help people who can't. And I grew up extremely poor, and dentistry wasn't something that we could always spend on. And I'm feeling I have the capability to be able to give back.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
You have the opportunity and the blessing to be able to go provide that so somebody else doesn't go without care-
Dr. Tina Saw:
Exactly.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
... and you want to give back. Tina, I can so see you having the most successful foundation, providing care to all the people that are in need 10 years from now. And the smile on your face as you talk about that, Tina, I so see that. I so appreciate you being here today. Anything else you want to say before we sign off today?
Dr. Tina Saw:
No. It's been great being on your podcast, and I'm glad to get the word out what we're doing. And thank you so much for interviewing because I love all the stories that you put on your podcast. Everybody has a story behind what they do and who they are.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Thank you so much Dr. Tina Saw for joining me today. And thank you for going on this inspiring journey with me. Around here, we aim to inspire and create connections. We can't do it without you. If this conversation moved you, made you smile, or scratch that little itch of curiosity today, please share it with the extraordinary people in your life. And if you do one thing today, let it be extraordinary. Bye for now.
