WEBVTT
00:00:45.210 --> 00:01:03.210
Okay, if you love things like Enneagram, Human Design, Myers Briggs, Clifton Strengths, all the things, you're gonna love today's episode because my guest today has created a new way to see your personality and overlay it with the personalities of your coworkers, partner, best friends, or whoever you want to.
00:01:03.530 --> 00:01:04.810
It is seriously so cool.
00:01:04.969 --> 00:01:07.769
We're gonna dive into it and my results and all the things.
00:01:07.849 --> 00:01:14.490
And in case you're new here, you're listening to my cool series called Cool People Doing Cool Things on my podcast, Big Fun Small Business.
00:01:14.569 --> 00:01:19.849
And I'm your host, Deanna Seymour, graphic designer and founder of The Playhouse, where networking is actually fun.
00:01:20.090 --> 00:01:22.170
Today I'm hanging out with Kara Steinman.
00:01:22.730 --> 00:01:30.250
She's the founder of Sheer Personality, helping people understand themselves and each other through a new framework for relational intelligence.
00:01:30.650 --> 00:01:32.409
All right, let's get to it.
00:01:35.849 --> 00:01:37.289
Hey Kara, how's it going?
00:01:37.530 --> 00:01:38.890
Hey, Dee, how are you doing?
00:01:39.450 --> 00:01:40.170
I am good.
00:01:40.329 --> 00:01:41.849
I'm so happy to talk to you today.
00:01:42.009 --> 00:01:43.370
I feel like it's been too long.
00:01:43.450 --> 00:01:46.409
We've both been like in the weeds, heads down, working hard.
00:01:46.650 --> 00:01:46.969
I know.
00:01:47.049 --> 00:01:51.930
I feel so bad when I get busy and I like let some of my relationships go stagnant, but we always come back.
00:01:52.170 --> 00:01:52.409
Yeah.
00:01:52.570 --> 00:01:54.730
I feel like we have even checked in along the way.
00:01:54.810 --> 00:01:57.769
It's just not usual long hangs.
00:01:58.090 --> 00:02:05.210
But then as I saw what you were creating start to come to life, I was like, oh my God, do you want to be on the series cool people doing cool things?
00:02:05.290 --> 00:02:06.250
Because you're doing cool things.
00:02:06.489 --> 00:02:07.210
I appreciate it.
00:02:07.290 --> 00:02:07.769
Thank you.
00:02:08.009 --> 00:02:08.329
Okay.
00:02:08.650 --> 00:02:22.090
So let's just dive right in because I feel like we all love, and you're gonna correct me if I'm wrong by calling it like a personality thing or uh like I feel like Enneagrams, human design, anybody listening who loves those things is gonna love shear, right?
00:02:22.650 --> 00:02:26.889
That's probably the easiest way to understand it is that it it is a personality test.
00:02:26.969 --> 00:02:33.930
It's an it's another way to look at yourself and develop self-concept, understand what you're all about, how you move through the world, right?
00:02:34.250 --> 00:02:34.730
Mm-hmm.
00:02:34.889 --> 00:02:35.689
And I love it.
00:02:36.009 --> 00:02:40.409
So dive in, tell us, tell us what it is, maybe why you made it.
00:02:40.490 --> 00:02:43.769
Because I know you come from a background of like networking and relationships and all this stuff.
00:02:43.849 --> 00:02:48.490
So give us the quick story of why you made it and then tell us what the heck it is.
00:02:48.650 --> 00:02:48.969
Okay.
00:02:49.210 --> 00:02:57.930
Well, I will tell you most of you probably like you and everybody else who's really close to me in business right now has been watching, been watching me do like the networking relationship thing, right?
00:02:58.090 --> 00:03:03.930
But my actual real background, if you go back 25 years, is psychology and personality science.
00:03:04.009 --> 00:03:08.250
And I've been kind of obsessed with like, why are we the way we are forever?
00:03:08.490 --> 00:03:11.370
Like a giant personality nerd.
00:03:11.610 --> 00:03:16.009
And I like eat to the point where even in, and I've always felt kind of like not normal.
00:03:16.090 --> 00:03:18.650
And maybe that's the ADHD thing or then I know you get it.
00:03:18.729 --> 00:03:20.890
Like, I'm like, I don't quite fit here.
00:03:21.050 --> 00:03:32.409
I'm not sure why, but like in college, I took uh at junior college, I took abnormal personality and got an A and was like, well, I still don't really understand what's wrong with me.
00:03:32.650 --> 00:03:36.890
And so I took it again when I got to UC Davis, thinking maybe that the teaching would be better, higher quality.
00:03:36.969 --> 00:03:39.449
And I got an A again, still didn't, still walked away.
00:03:39.530 --> 00:03:41.849
Like, I still why am I I don't understand?
00:03:42.090 --> 00:03:48.810
So like there's this deep need in me to understand people and why we are the way they are, why we are the way we are.
00:03:49.050 --> 00:03:54.169
And so, like over time, anybody who's obsessed with this kind of thing takes all the tests, discs.
00:03:54.330 --> 00:03:58.090
I I became a Clifton Strengths coach at one point in time recently.
00:03:58.250 --> 00:04:04.090
Um, you know, Enneagram, human design, astrology, all of these tools are super valuable.
00:04:04.330 --> 00:04:07.050
But um they're all they all have like some flaw.
00:04:07.129 --> 00:04:07.849
Nothing's perfect, right?
00:04:07.930 --> 00:04:14.969
But I think if you take a grain of a grain of truth from each, you can kind of get a picture of who you are and how you move through the world.
00:04:15.289 --> 00:04:26.009
So shear is is largely derived from the big five, which is one of the more validated, more regularly studied, um, it's a temperament test.
00:04:26.250 --> 00:04:31.210
Shear came to be because we don't have a really good way to look at ourselves outside of a box.
00:04:31.449 --> 00:04:38.090
Like you get boxed into your Myers-Briggs type, you're boxed into one of what is it, nine Enneagram types.
00:04:38.250 --> 00:04:52.889
Um, and some of the really validated personality science, like big five, gives you a really good like basis for understanding how you move through the world and maybe how you relate, but it's it's like zero to a hundred.
00:04:53.370 --> 00:04:59.049
So, like if you're if you're neurotic on that scale, nobody wants to self-identify that way.
00:04:59.529 --> 00:05:03.370
Nobody's gonna say, Oh, I'm I'm highly neurotic, I'm very low in conscientiousness.
00:05:03.610 --> 00:05:05.690
Like, that's just not how we want to see ourselves.
00:05:05.769 --> 00:05:07.049
It's kind of like not great language.
00:05:07.210 --> 00:05:19.129
So I sort of reimagined it and took a lot of different pieces from different personality science like avenues and created a framework that's more friendly for us to self-identify with.
00:05:19.210 --> 00:05:23.769
It helps reframe some of the maybe ways we've been misunderstood.
00:05:23.929 --> 00:05:26.250
It's also delivered on a spectrum.
00:05:26.409 --> 00:05:34.409
So SHER is an acronym and it stands for structure, harmony, emotional permeability, expression, and receptivity.
00:05:34.570 --> 00:05:40.970
And so those are all, we all live somewhere on a spectrum, on the spectrum of each of those five dimensions.
00:05:41.210 --> 00:05:54.490
And when you take the SHEAR assessment, you see where you fall on each of those spectrums, but we present it in like in a shape, in a constellation, so that you can kind of visually see where you where you fall.
00:05:54.649 --> 00:05:57.129
And nothing's nothing's like written in stone, right?
00:05:57.210 --> 00:06:04.970
In different contexts, like I'm highly adaptive, but in different contexts, under certain types of pressure, I might have to be more structured.
00:06:05.289 --> 00:06:09.929
But in order to be a naturally structured person, it's gonna take a lot of energy for me.
00:06:10.090 --> 00:06:10.570
I'm just not.
00:06:10.970 --> 00:06:13.929
I'm like, yo, I'm like, uh, have to happen.
00:06:14.409 --> 00:06:15.049
And I've structured.
00:06:15.289 --> 00:06:19.690
And this is why it's important because we move through our lives as these people as this person.
00:06:19.769 --> 00:06:21.450
I am this person whether I like it or not.
00:06:21.610 --> 00:06:23.769
Like sometimes, like yesterday, I had a really bad day.
00:06:23.850 --> 00:06:25.129
I was being a total spaz.
00:06:25.210 --> 00:06:29.610
My sister called me out, and I felt really shitty about it because I am kind of a spaz.
00:06:30.250 --> 00:06:32.490
And it really works for me in some ways.
00:06:32.649 --> 00:06:35.610
In some ways, it's really difficult, but she's also highly structured.
00:06:35.850 --> 00:06:43.210
So we do struggle, and that's kind of where shear is different than a personality test because it is actually a relational intelligence system.
00:06:43.370 --> 00:07:00.090
So you take your assessment, you learn about yourself, you do, you understand how your patterns show up, and then you can overlay that your pattern with someone else's and look at how you show up together and where you might find conflict or where you might thrive, what you might be really great at doing together.
00:07:00.169 --> 00:07:08.090
So there's a lot of implication here for team building and conflict resolution, romantic relationships, co-founders.
00:07:08.250 --> 00:07:15.370
Um, like I was just telling you before we started recording, my my one of my good friends, Mel, one of my best biz besties, Mel, from like way back.
00:07:15.529 --> 00:07:18.889
We've started so many businesses together and failed at every single one.
00:07:18.970 --> 00:07:26.889
I just wrote a Substack article about it because it's so funny now that I look at our constellations, our sheer constellations over top of each other, because we're two alike.
00:07:27.210 --> 00:07:37.690
We're we have there's no, we're really adaptive, we're both super adaptive and open to new ideas, very receptive, and we have no structure and no like no guardrails.
00:07:37.850 --> 00:07:49.610
So we would start something and then we would come back together the following week, and nothing had been done, and we had changed our plan, and we had like just terrible co-founders, great friends, we travel really well together.
00:07:49.769 --> 00:07:52.649
So these are different contexts of our relationship, right?
00:07:52.970 --> 00:07:53.529
Yeah.
00:07:53.850 --> 00:07:57.690
Or you just have to pull in a third person to keep you guys in line.
00:07:57.929 --> 00:08:01.049
Like I love the okay, because it's kind of tricky sometimes.
00:08:01.129 --> 00:08:06.330
You're like, okay, well, and I never know a lot about human design or Enneagram or all that.
00:08:06.409 --> 00:08:12.250
Like, I feel like I just skim the surface of all of it because I think it's cool, but then I like move on too quick, like another shiny object.
00:08:12.490 --> 00:08:14.649
But you know, I'm like, okay, well, I'm a seven.
00:08:14.889 --> 00:08:15.850
Who should I like?
00:08:16.009 --> 00:08:17.450
How does that relate to other people?
00:08:17.769 --> 00:08:20.250
And I'm sure people know that and they could teach me.
00:08:20.490 --> 00:08:26.169
But the cool thing is where you can easily see on the way the constellation is mapped out.
00:08:26.250 --> 00:08:26.330
Yeah.
00:08:26.490 --> 00:08:30.330
So people listening, like I've taken this year um assessment also.
00:08:30.730 --> 00:08:43.929
And actually, when I pulled mine up before this interview to show Kara, you started cracking up because you were like, Oh my god, ours are almost the same, except for I am more structured than you, but all our other dots in this constellation look very similar.
00:08:44.090 --> 00:08:48.490
So I just think it's really a really cool visual, you know, as a former art teacher to see.
00:08:48.809 --> 00:08:57.289
Oh, like you you immediately saw your you and um Melissa's stuff together and were like, oh, that answers a lot of questions.
00:08:57.450 --> 00:09:04.490
And like that's what I mean when I say that that there are little bits and pieces of all of the different personality um assessments that I've studied over the years.
00:09:04.649 --> 00:09:13.129
Like, I wanted to present this on a spectrum, but I also wanted to present it visually in a way that was closer to what disc does.
00:09:13.289 --> 00:09:20.569
Because disk will um some disk assessments will show you your personality in like a more circle, more in like a circle.
00:09:20.730 --> 00:09:25.209
And the closer you are to the middle of the circle, the easier it is for you to get to the other side.
00:09:26.089 --> 00:09:26.329
Right?
00:09:26.490 --> 00:09:29.289
And that's kind of like you being more structured.
00:09:29.449 --> 00:09:33.929
It's easier for you to move in and out of structure and out adaptivity than it is for me.
00:09:34.089 --> 00:09:37.209
You can get to structure, you're you're kind of in the middle of that one.
00:09:37.769 --> 00:09:43.129
It's way easier for you to be more structured if you have to be than it is for me because I'm way over on the other side of the spectrum.
00:09:43.209 --> 00:09:44.970
It takes a lot more energy for me to get there.
00:09:45.209 --> 00:09:48.250
Yeah, like your dot is way further down towards adaptive.
00:09:48.409 --> 00:09:55.850
So anybody listening who's like, Deanna got structured, I did, but I'm not like full up into all the way on structured.
00:09:55.929 --> 00:09:58.409
I'm like poking my head into structured.
00:09:58.809 --> 00:10:02.649
And that's where it kind of gets interesting too, because these different dimensions play together.
00:10:02.970 --> 00:10:08.730
So you don't always appear very structured because you're really high in receptivity, too.
00:10:09.449 --> 00:10:13.529
And so you are not going to turn down a new idea just because it's new.
00:10:13.689 --> 00:10:21.850
Somebody who's more selective on that reset on that um rescale, who's more selective, is gonna be like, I need to think about nope, this is working fine the way it is.
00:10:21.929 --> 00:10:25.289
We're not entertaining new ideas, let's just stick with what we've got.
00:10:25.449 --> 00:10:29.449
Um, you're willing to sit and play around with new ideas and more like play with what if.
00:10:29.850 --> 00:10:33.449
And so you do tend to adapt more easily because of that.
00:10:33.769 --> 00:10:36.250
Well, that's funny because I'm looking at my thing on my screen.
00:10:36.409 --> 00:10:44.569
And on yeah, on between selective and receptive, I'm like almost all the way turned up to 10, like turned all the way up to receptive.
00:10:44.730 --> 00:10:45.769
So that makes sense.
00:10:46.089 --> 00:10:48.089
How it can play off each other.
00:10:48.169 --> 00:10:52.730
So let's okay, because for someone listening who's like, y'all are talking about the constellation and I can't even see it.
00:10:52.809 --> 00:10:55.929
Do you want to talk about the different spectrums that are on the chart?
00:10:56.169 --> 00:10:56.809
Yeah, let's do that.
00:10:57.370 --> 00:10:58.009
Okay, let's do that.
00:10:58.089 --> 00:11:00.409
And also they could just pause it and go take it's free assessment.
00:11:00.569 --> 00:11:00.889
Yes.
00:11:01.209 --> 00:11:06.409
Just go sheerpersonality.com, start the assessment and and take it.
00:11:06.889 --> 00:11:09.769
So so she do you want to talk about each one of the dimensions?
00:11:09.929 --> 00:11:10.649
Yeah, is that okay?
00:11:10.809 --> 00:11:13.610
Okay, so structure is how you relate to structure.
00:11:13.769 --> 00:11:19.529
You're either somewhere on the spectrum on the spectrum of structured versus adaptive.
00:11:19.850 --> 00:11:28.329
Um, in the middle, you have a lot more flexibility to move in and out of structure or adaptive, depending on the context and where you're at.
00:11:28.490 --> 00:11:31.850
If you're way on that structured side, like imagine me on a team, I'm super adaptive.
00:11:32.009 --> 00:11:36.089
I'm like as far as you can get on adaptive and receptivity.
00:11:36.169 --> 00:11:38.490
So I look like a spaz a lot of the time.
00:11:38.970 --> 00:11:40.970
But that's not what's going on.
00:11:41.289 --> 00:11:51.289
So if I'm on a team with somebody who's highly structured and I'm highly adaptive, you can see where there could be conflict unless there's somebody in there who's closer to the middle.
00:11:51.370 --> 00:11:58.730
Like you would be a great person to help soften that relationship between me and the person who's really structured.
00:11:58.970 --> 00:12:07.129
Because we're not gonna naturally understand each other unless maybe we've taken shear and we understand what's going on here and we can have use this.
00:12:07.209 --> 00:12:08.490
This sort of gives us language.
00:12:08.649 --> 00:12:13.689
So initially, you go learn about yourself, take your take your shear assessment, get your constellation.
00:12:13.850 --> 00:12:18.089
We've got an insight guide too that's like we've trained an AI agent to help you understand.
00:12:18.169 --> 00:12:20.009
You can ask it questions and stuff and name it.
00:12:20.089 --> 00:12:21.449
I named mine Iris.
00:12:21.610 --> 00:12:24.730
And so I talk to Iris and I say, Why am I having such a hard time with this?
00:12:24.889 --> 00:12:27.610
And she's like, Well, you're probably leaning into this or that.
00:12:28.409 --> 00:12:32.649
So, anyway, that's where that's where it gets really interesting when you when you start looking at teams.
00:12:32.730 --> 00:12:39.929
But so that's I could see it with like um even like an online business with the people I mostly work with, like I could see them wanting to hire a VA.
00:12:40.169 --> 00:12:53.049
And if there was a way to like see their sheer personality type, I feel like in this sense, probably like maybe not total opposites attract, but like kind of like how you were saying you and Melissa working together was like no structure.
00:12:53.370 --> 00:12:56.730
Somebody like me would well, I guess I'm kind of in the middle on that.
00:12:56.809 --> 00:13:01.049
But you know, I do crave structure, like that's where I need a little bit of help.
00:13:01.129 --> 00:13:15.209
So I think seeing even people you're gonna hire, or people have hired me before, and I don't know what this means about their sheer personality, but they will like write me with like edits or something and just be like, I need a little, like, hey, good morning.
00:13:16.089 --> 00:13:21.769
Like, I want it to be like nice and fluffy and friendly before you're like, okay, on slide one, I want to change this, on slide two, I'm gonna change.
00:13:22.009 --> 00:13:26.649
And I'm like, ew, this person is so rude and treating me like a robot, and I hate it.
00:13:26.889 --> 00:13:33.289
But also, if I knew their constellation, maybe I would be like, okay, well, they're just like super yeah, they're to my point or whatever.
00:13:33.610 --> 00:13:37.209
So, so that might that brings us to like another one of those is harmony, right?
00:13:37.370 --> 00:13:38.809
You're pretty high in harmony.
00:13:39.449 --> 00:13:41.209
I'm a little bit more close to the middle.
00:13:41.289 --> 00:13:48.490
So I can be a little bit of a pain in the ass when I want to change something or when I see something that needs to be fixed, or when I I don't know.
00:13:48.569 --> 00:13:54.649
So harmony, harmony on that side of the spectrum, your your primary focus is maintaining the relationship.
00:13:55.209 --> 00:13:57.850
And on the other side is the highly challenging person.
00:13:58.009 --> 00:14:04.970
And I intentionally did use the word challenging because I think women especially, we get a bad rap if we're quote, challenging.
00:14:05.129 --> 00:14:06.809
Um, but I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
00:14:06.970 --> 00:14:08.730
There's there's an upside and a downside to everything.
00:14:08.809 --> 00:14:17.929
And if you're highly challenging, you're getting to the truth, you're getting to the bottom of it, you're pressing, you're pressing for progress regardless of what it means to the relationship.
00:14:18.169 --> 00:14:25.529
And again, imagine a relationship, imagine a husband and wife where one of them is highly harmonizing and the other one is highly challenging.
00:14:25.769 --> 00:14:30.569
It's gonna cause conflict unless you know exactly what you're dealing with and you have language to work around it.
00:14:31.449 --> 00:14:35.449
So then you so structure harmony, um, emotional permeability.
00:14:35.689 --> 00:14:40.009
So you just you just mentioned your email, your preference for email conversation.
00:14:40.169 --> 00:14:41.049
I'm the same way.
00:14:41.209 --> 00:14:43.610
I'm I'm pretty high on emotional permeability.
00:14:43.689 --> 00:14:45.929
I feel a lot of the people's emotions around me.
00:14:46.089 --> 00:14:51.049
If I'm in a room and something, somebody gets in a fight, I physically feel that.
00:14:51.370 --> 00:14:56.409
And and I I really like I it lives with me for a little while in my body.
00:14:56.569 --> 00:15:01.209
Other people aren't as affected by other people's emotions, they don't pick up the vibe in the room.
00:15:01.449 --> 00:15:06.329
So the next one is expression, and that one's really about like how you process internally or externally.
00:15:06.409 --> 00:15:14.889
It's not it's not like introversion, it's more about like how you process and how much visible like energy you bring to an interaction.
00:15:15.129 --> 00:15:19.449
So like I'm highly, I'm pretty expressive, I'm moderately expressive.
00:15:19.610 --> 00:15:22.809
And so I actually have to talk out loud to think through stuff sometimes.
00:15:22.970 --> 00:15:26.970
I can't take something and sit and think about it.
00:15:27.129 --> 00:15:31.689
Like I will talk to myself if I have to to work through something.
00:15:31.850 --> 00:15:39.929
Whereas my husband, and I got a whole other post coming about opposites also because we're totally his his and my constellation barely touch.
00:15:40.009 --> 00:15:45.129
We only touch, we're exactly the same in in um harmony on the harmony spectrum.
00:15:45.209 --> 00:15:50.409
So I think that's part of why it does work, but he is highly receptive.
00:15:50.569 --> 00:15:56.970
So on that expressive selective spectrum, or I'm sorry, expressive reflective.
00:15:57.529 --> 00:15:58.649
I'm highly expressive.
00:15:58.730 --> 00:15:59.689
I need to talk out loud.
00:15:59.850 --> 00:16:03.529
He's reflective, he needs to take something and sit with it for a minute and think about it.
00:16:03.689 --> 00:16:14.889
And so it was really interesting when when I had him do it, I had him test it for me when we were still in the development phase, and I saw his his constellation and I was like, yeah, duh, I know this.
00:16:15.049 --> 00:16:18.169
And he really pretty much knew all that he had learned about him.
00:16:18.490 --> 00:16:22.490
Sheer didn't really tell him too much about himself that he didn't already know, right?
00:16:22.649 --> 00:16:26.490
But where it got interesting was where we asked the insight, we did the overlay.
00:16:26.730 --> 00:16:36.250
And the report said, one of your biggest challenges as a couple is going to be her high expression and your high reflection.
00:16:36.569 --> 00:16:40.970
Because when you guys need to do something together, she's gonna be chasing you around trying to talk about it.
00:16:41.049 --> 00:16:43.129
And you're like, oh my God, leave me alone.
00:16:43.289 --> 00:16:44.730
I have to process this.
00:16:44.970 --> 00:16:47.129
I'm dying laughing because this is me and Matt, 100%.
00:16:47.370 --> 00:16:49.049
Like, I'm like, oh my God, you don't even care.
00:16:49.129 --> 00:16:50.490
And he's like, Oh my god, chill.
00:16:50.569 --> 00:16:56.250
And I'm like, or I just am telling him my thoughts as they enter my head, and he is like, okay.
00:16:56.490 --> 00:16:58.569
Yeah, and sometimes my thoughts aren't formed yet.
00:16:58.649 --> 00:17:01.610
And so yeah, he's actually really highly, he's actually really structured.
00:17:01.689 --> 00:17:02.889
My husband's really structured too.
00:17:02.970 --> 00:17:10.009
So if I'm talking my way through something and the structure is not complete, he's really uncomfortable and I'm talking out loud.
00:17:10.970 --> 00:17:14.569
And he's like trying to process what you just said, and then you're like, actually, you know what?
00:17:14.890 --> 00:17:16.650
Um, and it's the opposite of what I just said.
00:17:16.730 --> 00:17:18.009
So I just changed my mind.
00:17:18.089 --> 00:17:18.490
You know what?
00:17:18.569 --> 00:17:20.730
Like, never mind, never mind what I said.
00:17:20.890 --> 00:17:28.009
So so that was interesting though, because I didn't, I didn't pester him about I wanted feedback on Sheer, but I didn't pester him.
00:17:28.089 --> 00:17:33.690
And then like two nights later, we were at dinner and he just started giving me feedback without me asking.
00:17:33.769 --> 00:17:44.569
And he was, he said that what he had taken away from it more than anything was not he knew he was reflective and needed to process internally, but he didn't realize how that came across to other people.
00:17:44.889 --> 00:17:47.769
So at his work, he has to talk on the phone a lot to people.
00:17:47.849 --> 00:17:57.210
And he he realized that when he's talking to people and he needs to process, they probably think he's disengaging from the conversation, that he's not there, that he doesn't care.
00:17:58.250 --> 00:18:03.849
And so he started telling people at work, I'm with you, I'm engaged, I just need a second to process.
00:18:04.089 --> 00:18:10.170
And it's totally changed the way that people are receiving him because they just they just needed to know that.
00:18:10.410 --> 00:18:10.649
Yeah.
00:18:10.809 --> 00:18:17.930
And he actually used that on me at dinner that night too, because I was talking and he got quiet and he's like, I'm with you, I'm still here.
00:18:18.089 --> 00:18:19.129
I'm just thinking.
00:18:19.450 --> 00:18:22.009
And I was like, Oh, you, oh, you are so cute.
00:18:22.089 --> 00:18:23.849
Look at you using my own stuff on me.
00:18:24.089 --> 00:18:25.769
Well, I think that's what's so cool about it.
00:18:25.849 --> 00:18:34.889
And I think knowing you for for years now, the fact that you, like you were saying, people who've known you forever know you as like a networking person, a relationship person.
00:18:35.049 --> 00:18:38.809
And so this is a way to take a personality test.
00:18:38.889 --> 00:18:44.730
But the overlay, and I love, I love that you're using the word overlay because it really does feel like I don't know, we're in our 40s.
00:18:44.809 --> 00:18:53.769
We all know about an overhead projector back in school, and the teacher could like put multiple pieces of clear acetate on that overhead projector.
00:18:53.930 --> 00:18:57.450
I feel like that's basically what you can do inside shear.
00:18:57.609 --> 00:18:58.649
And it's so cool.
00:18:58.970 --> 00:19:05.129
Right now, we're beta testing um multiple overlays um because at a certain point it does get a little messy looking.
00:19:05.289 --> 00:19:10.329
So right now, people who are beta testing for us can overlay up to five people.
00:19:10.649 --> 00:19:18.649
Um and and I set it at five because I really want to overlay me and my four best friends from high school as a way to test how accurate this is because I know them so well.
00:19:18.809 --> 00:19:26.970
You know, like I know why me and Jen have trouble when we travel because she's the one with the itinerary, like ruining all my adaptability.
00:19:27.369 --> 00:19:28.410
So where were we?
00:19:28.490 --> 00:19:32.889
Um, that was expression, and then we've got we talked about emotional permeability.
00:19:33.690 --> 00:19:40.730
Um, and then the last one is receptivity, and that one's about your openness to ideas and other ways of thinking.
00:19:40.970 --> 00:19:51.529
Um, people who are highly receptive tend to like to entertain things that they don't understand that might be different from what they believe, even if they don't plan on changing their mind.
00:19:51.690 --> 00:20:16.689
Like we're we're the ones you're pretty receptive to, and we're willing to sit there and be like, we love the what if ideas, like, oh my god, what if this, what if that?
00:20:16.769 --> 00:20:18.609
That would be so fun, that would be so cool.
00:20:18.769 --> 00:20:24.609
Um, I sometimes wonder if it if it is part of like the way that I ruminate though, too.
00:20:24.769 --> 00:20:28.449
Like, because it's not always happy cool stuff that we're saying what if about.
00:20:28.609 --> 00:20:32.609
Like, I'm like, I'm imagining all the terrible scenarios sometimes too.
00:20:32.849 --> 00:20:33.409
Yes.
00:20:33.729 --> 00:20:35.249
So like a lot of imagination.
00:20:35.329 --> 00:20:50.449
And then on the other side of that, um, you've got more selective people who are selective are they have the way that they think about it, and it's not they're not gonna let something, some new perspective or something that's gonna shift their their reality.
00:20:50.609 --> 00:20:52.369
They're not gonna entertain that quite as easily.
00:20:52.609 --> 00:20:56.609
They're like, who cares about shiny objects, you ding dong, stay focused on what we're on.
00:20:57.009 --> 00:21:01.809
They're more focused, they're more selective about what they're willing to put their that's a great way to say it.
00:21:01.969 --> 00:21:02.849
More focus.
00:21:03.249 --> 00:21:07.249
So it kind of makes sense too that like, I mean, I just now I'm like interested.
00:21:07.329 --> 00:21:11.569
I'm like, oh my god, I want to see a bunch of different people, even if I don't know them.
00:21:11.649 --> 00:21:15.809
I'm just interested to see how it can all land for a person.
00:21:16.049 --> 00:21:20.449
But it seems like maybe I'm wrong, but receptive people are probably more permeable.
00:21:20.689 --> 00:21:21.809
Do you think that's probably true?
00:21:21.969 --> 00:21:24.049
But now I'm turning into a scientist and I'm like, that's my high.
00:21:24.369 --> 00:21:24.689
I don't know.
00:21:24.769 --> 00:21:25.809
These are these are great questions.
00:21:25.969 --> 00:21:27.969
And what I love about this is that we don't know.
00:21:28.129 --> 00:21:33.489
Um, I I'm hoping some like university people will get involved and and we can answer some of these questions.
00:21:33.649 --> 00:21:40.689
Um, I one one interesting related related to what you just said is I'm highly expressive, right?
00:21:41.089 --> 00:21:43.569
Which looks like I'm extroverted.
00:21:43.729 --> 00:21:47.329
Um and and I do think I probably am extroverted.
00:21:47.409 --> 00:21:49.489
I I am quick to jump into conversations.
00:21:49.569 --> 00:21:55.569
I love talking to other people, but I also really get burnt out easily and I need a lot of downtime.
00:21:55.729 --> 00:21:59.329
I need a lot of alone time before I want to be with people again.
00:21:59.489 --> 00:22:03.329
And I realized through sheer, it gave me an explanation for this.
00:22:03.489 --> 00:22:05.969
Um, and I didn't come up with this actually the insight guide.
00:22:06.049 --> 00:22:15.569
I asked my insight guide, I was like, why do I seem so introverted sometimes when I'm clearly more like I'm I'm expressive, I'm around people, I have to talk out loud.
00:22:15.729 --> 00:22:19.569
Um, and it pointed out that I'm highly permeable, highly emotionally permeable too.
00:22:19.809 --> 00:22:26.929
So especially big crowds, like if I go to a concert or I'm at a big party or something like that, it'll take me a while to recover from that.
00:22:27.009 --> 00:22:36.049
And I think it's just absorbing all that energy from other people, um picking up on picking up on all the little emotional social cues that are out there.
00:22:36.289 --> 00:22:42.209
Yeah, like somebody who's maybe like really expressive, but what's on the other side of permeable?
00:22:42.369 --> 00:22:42.849
Grounded.
00:22:43.089 --> 00:22:43.729
Grounded, yeah.
00:22:43.809 --> 00:22:49.889
If you um would that just be like that's like more probably more like a person who could be extroverted all the time.
00:22:50.049 --> 00:22:56.289
And yeah, if you were grounded, if you were grounded and highly expressive, you probably wouldn't need a lot of time to recover.
00:22:56.449 --> 00:22:56.689
Yeah.
00:22:56.849 --> 00:22:57.169
I'm guessing.
00:22:58.209 --> 00:22:58.369
I know.
00:22:58.689 --> 00:23:02.849
Because you're you're not absorbing, you're not picking up, you're very grounded in in what you feel.
00:23:03.009 --> 00:23:06.209
It's not confused, you're not confusing what you feel with what somebody else feels.
00:23:06.369 --> 00:23:09.249
It's a little bit like that um highly sensitive person thing, you know?
00:23:09.409 --> 00:23:09.649
Yeah.
00:23:09.889 --> 00:23:19.249
Like if you're not, if you're not really impacted by the emotions of the people around you and you are highly expressive, you can probably go all day, is my guess.
00:23:19.489 --> 00:23:19.649
Yeah.
00:23:19.809 --> 00:23:20.369
I'm okay.
00:23:20.529 --> 00:23:24.609
So just if anybody takes a test and they get expressive and grounded.
00:23:24.849 --> 00:23:27.409
Don't take what I'm about to say personally.
00:23:28.049 --> 00:23:35.089
In my mind, someone who would score that with that would kind of be like a person at the party that is like overdoing it.
00:23:35.169 --> 00:23:37.009
Maybe your mansplainer would have that.
00:23:37.169 --> 00:23:43.009
Like it kind of feels like the type of personality too who maybe would like be so set in their ways, but also really loud.
00:23:43.169 --> 00:23:46.609
Like it feels but maybe that's because I'm on the other end of permeable.
00:23:46.689 --> 00:23:49.569
So then I would feel like, ah, you're you're a lot, you know.
00:23:49.649 --> 00:23:49.969
I don't know.
00:23:50.049 --> 00:23:53.969
So if anybody takes it, tell me if you get that because I probably like you if you're listening to this podcast.
00:23:54.049 --> 00:23:56.289
And if you get it, I'm like, change my mind.
00:23:56.529 --> 00:24:02.209
But you know, there's people like that, or they're charismatic, but they're not very um interested in other people.
00:24:02.289 --> 00:24:03.009
You know what I mean?
00:24:03.089 --> 00:24:03.649
Like, I don't know.
00:24:03.889 --> 00:24:09.169
I'm just I'm just the possi all these possibilities are are out here because this is a newer assessment, right?
00:24:09.249 --> 00:24:09.889
This is brand new.
00:24:10.049 --> 00:24:15.329
We just I just developed, I well, I've been developing it for over like 20 years, but it's it's visible now.
00:24:15.409 --> 00:24:17.489
You can see what's been going on in my head for a long time.
00:24:17.889 --> 00:24:25.089
But but when we when we show the when you get your results for shear, you also see that this has a dark side.
00:24:25.249 --> 00:24:29.649
Like any any anywhere you fall has a superpower.
00:24:30.289 --> 00:24:35.649
There's no good or bad position to be on on these spectrums of these dimension spectrums.
00:24:36.129 --> 00:24:41.249
But anything that we anything that we exhibit can have a dark side, right?
00:24:41.409 --> 00:24:54.369
And this is where like some of us who have stronger personalities in some of these dimensions, like my highly adaptive, can I have I have been accused of being flaky in the past because I changed my mind.
00:24:54.929 --> 00:25:04.049
And so for for me, and I'm probably a lot of women with ADHD, I'm imagining, and a lot of people who have stronger parts of their personality, not everybody's super balanced, right?
00:25:04.209 --> 00:25:09.729
That can be a superpower for me, but it's also been framed for me in a really negative way a lot of the time.
00:25:10.209 --> 00:25:23.329
So I think there's a really uh an opportunity for healing here, not just for ourselves, but between people to help understand each other and build more empathy for the parts of ourselves that have been framed poorly.
00:25:23.569 --> 00:25:23.889
I know.
00:25:23.969 --> 00:25:25.569
I'm like, uh, that's a mansplainer.
00:25:25.969 --> 00:25:27.009
I'm like, I'm on this side.
00:25:27.089 --> 00:25:29.249
Anyone who's grounded is totally a mansplainer.
00:25:29.569 --> 00:25:33.569
But that's that's where the self, the self, the self-reflection and the awareness comes in.
00:25:33.729 --> 00:25:35.249
If you know more, you do better.
00:25:35.409 --> 00:25:38.129
You if we have responsibility, if we know more, we have to do better.
00:25:38.369 --> 00:25:43.729
So if I, and this is what happened, I was telling you, I got in an argument with my sister yesterday because I was being a spaz.
00:25:44.129 --> 00:25:46.609
And I thought about it all afternoon because I was like, you know what?
00:25:46.689 --> 00:25:54.129
I really have to own that because I was my adaptable and receptive, like a couple of my dimensions yesterday for some reason were just out of control.
00:25:54.289 --> 00:25:55.649
I was, I maybe it's the coffee.
00:25:55.729 --> 00:25:56.049
I don't know.
00:25:56.129 --> 00:26:00.209
I don't usually drink coffee and I did drink coffee yesterday, but I was out of control.
00:26:00.609 --> 00:26:08.209
And anything that goes wild and you have no like con like you have no, you have to be aware of it, right?
00:26:08.369 --> 00:26:12.609
And then you can kind of like moderate it a little bit or modulate it a little bit.
00:26:12.929 --> 00:26:14.369
Yeah, I like this.
00:26:14.529 --> 00:26:24.209
Okay, and like I mean, I feel like being permeable or expressive could also be like people might have said you're too sensitive, like thinking about like how people say that.
00:26:24.369 --> 00:26:33.009
Or even um, I will say too that sometimes with like harmonizing, I can get myself in trouble sometimes feeling like I'm not like picking a side.
00:26:33.169 --> 00:26:33.729
You know what I mean?
00:26:33.809 --> 00:26:40.049
Like I'm like, well, I'm just trying to like see it from both sides, and it can feel like what take a stance, chomp.
00:26:40.209 --> 00:26:45.969
And then I'm like, ah, I just want everyone to like be happy and nice, like or like people pleasing, right?
00:26:46.129 --> 00:26:50.609
Like you have to be careful not to fall into the trap of people pleasing.
00:26:50.769 --> 00:26:56.289
Um, and like I'm not I'm not gonna get into like the trauma response of that either, because we have fawning too, right?
00:26:56.529 --> 00:27:04.929
But I think in my personal opinion, I think that the difference between that, like if it's a trauma response, it's it's more about you compromising your boundaries.
00:27:05.089 --> 00:27:16.129
And if you're genuinely harmonizing, you're probably in a healthy way, you're not compromising your boundaries, you're just nurturing the relationship as opposed to the the challenging it.
00:27:16.449 --> 00:27:17.009
Yeah, yeah.
00:27:17.169 --> 00:27:27.089
I probably my teacher background makes me a harmonizer too, because you're like trying to lead 20 different personalities in a room and trying to make sure everyone is nice to each other.
00:27:27.329 --> 00:27:28.689
And it's a chicken egg thing too, right?
00:27:28.769 --> 00:27:35.249
Or maybe you went into that field because you were it was easy for you to harmonize all these little scally wags.
00:27:35.489 --> 00:27:35.809
I know.
00:27:35.889 --> 00:27:36.369
Oh my gosh.
00:27:36.529 --> 00:27:37.809
All right, now I'm thinking of trolls.
00:27:37.889 --> 00:27:38.209
What is that?
00:27:38.289 --> 00:27:40.369
Like trolls three, where they have to make the perfect harmony.
00:27:40.849 --> 00:27:42.449
Um, I feel like I bring up trolls too much.
00:27:42.529 --> 00:27:43.249
You can tell I have kids.
00:27:43.409 --> 00:27:44.129
I've never seen it.
00:27:44.369 --> 00:27:45.649
Well, your kids are older than my kids.
00:27:46.049 --> 00:27:47.249
Your kids are a lot younger than mine.
00:27:47.409 --> 00:27:47.889
Yeah.
00:27:48.129 --> 00:27:50.289
Um, oh my gosh, Kara, this was so fun.
00:27:50.449 --> 00:27:52.689
Everybody go seriously, take this assessment.
00:27:52.769 --> 00:27:53.809
It's so fun.
00:27:54.129 --> 00:27:56.929
Um, and then also I'm like, tell me what you've got.
00:27:57.009 --> 00:27:58.209
Let's overlay some stuff.
00:27:58.289 --> 00:28:00.449
Let's get out of overhead projectors and let's see what happens.
00:28:01.329 --> 00:28:02.049
Conversations about this.
00:28:02.129 --> 00:28:08.369
I want to hear from people like, oh, I mean my husband did the overlay, and look at what we've been dealing with all these years.
00:28:08.529 --> 00:28:14.529
I thought it would be really interesting to see my husband and I because we've been married for 21 years and like what we've overcome.
00:28:14.849 --> 00:28:15.009
Yeah.
00:28:15.169 --> 00:28:17.009
You're like, look, oh my God, how did we make it?
00:28:17.089 --> 00:28:18.209
Look at our constellation.
00:28:18.449 --> 00:28:19.729
How does this even work?
00:28:19.969 --> 00:28:23.809
Well, I think like couples, couples counselors could totally benefit from this.
00:28:23.889 --> 00:28:34.369
But I mean, like team leaders, people like I can see I'll I honestly too, like teachers, like you know, I feel like I just brought up teaching, but you know, when you're like on the third grade team, that's hard.
00:28:34.449 --> 00:28:37.489
Like I've seen people try to navigate working together.
00:28:37.649 --> 00:28:41.329
Um, I mean, even if I was on the team with the other art team, like the PE teachers.
00:28:41.809 --> 00:28:42.289
Oh, you teach me.
00:28:42.849 --> 00:28:51.009
I've had some like crazy art teacher teams where like I was annoying because the other person, I'm sure, was structured.
00:28:51.169 --> 00:28:56.049
She was about to retire, she was set in her ways, and I wasn't doing anything that she wanted me to do.
00:28:56.289 --> 00:29:06.849
Um well, but it would have been nice to be able to sit down with a mediator or an art supervisor and be like, dude, she wants the cabinet this way, but she gets to teach what she wants.
00:29:07.489 --> 00:29:08.129
You know what I mean?
00:29:08.209 --> 00:29:09.169
I just feel like it's amazing.
00:29:09.249 --> 00:29:19.489
I think and for me, understanding why somebody wants something somehow, like understanding why Jeremy needs why, why he's not responding right away, my husband, that makes it that makes all the difference for me.
00:29:19.649 --> 00:29:22.369
He's not trying to be a dick, he's not pushing me away.
00:29:22.609 --> 00:29:24.609
He's just that's how he processes.
00:29:24.769 --> 00:29:26.609
He needs that to process effectively.
00:29:26.769 --> 00:29:29.009
To give me what I need, that's what he needs.
00:29:29.729 --> 00:29:31.649
And like you mentioned earlier, teams.
00:29:31.809 --> 00:29:37.169
I I'm a I'm a small operation, I'm a solopreneur, but I have like a bunch of contractors that work for me.
00:29:37.329 --> 00:29:40.929
And I'm I'm in very intentionally hiring these days, right?
00:29:41.249 --> 00:29:49.409
Like my developer that I work with most directly, um, we've done the overlay with him and with um my project manager.
00:29:49.649 --> 00:29:55.569
And it it's so beautiful because he's he's pretty structured, but he's also really receptive.
00:29:55.729 --> 00:29:57.649
So he listens and he hears me.
00:29:57.809 --> 00:30:05.249
He just doesn't always, he's not always willing to change direction or move away from the plan unless it makes sense.
00:30:05.489 --> 00:30:08.769
So if we did So he's probably a little bit over on the challenging side too.
00:30:08.849 --> 00:30:11.649
Like he's not scared to be like he's more challenging than I am.
00:30:11.729 --> 00:30:12.209
Yeah, than you are.
00:30:12.449 --> 00:30:12.769
A little bit.
00:30:12.849 --> 00:30:14.369
Yeah, but it's a it's a good balance.
00:30:14.449 --> 00:30:17.809
But I can see that, and and I know that he's really reflective.
00:30:17.889 --> 00:30:19.089
So he's more like my husband.
00:30:19.169 --> 00:30:20.209
He needs to think about stuff.
00:30:20.289 --> 00:30:23.249
So I send him emails and I leave him and then I leave him alone.
00:30:23.329 --> 00:30:24.209
I don't pester him.
00:30:24.289 --> 00:30:26.369
I know that he's gonna take some time to get back to me.
00:30:26.689 --> 00:30:32.449
So knowing that he gets to work in his sweet spot, I get to work in my sweet spot.
00:30:32.689 --> 00:30:40.609
And if I didn't have the people on my team who are great at executing and great at structure and getting shit done, I would never get anything done.
00:30:40.769 --> 00:30:41.009
Yeah.
00:30:41.249 --> 00:30:45.169
So there's there's a lot of um benefit to teams, even if it's a small team.
00:30:45.489 --> 00:30:45.889
Yeah.
00:30:46.129 --> 00:30:47.169
I mean, I love it.
00:30:47.249 --> 00:30:54.929
I also think that if it's like somebody's results, it feels I guess I'm speaking from like, I mean, just any kind of relationship, really.
00:30:55.009 --> 00:30:56.449
I was gonna say like a partner.
00:30:57.009 --> 00:31:00.049
But you're like, oh, that's your that's where you land on this.
00:31:00.449 --> 00:31:04.529
It feels less defensive, or like, what do you mean you have to have time to process?
00:31:04.609 --> 00:31:13.089
Like if someone just says, I need time to process, I think seeing it as a result to me and my brain is like, oh, okay, yeah, he needs more time to process.
00:31:13.169 --> 00:31:15.889
He's not just saying that to like make me leave him alone.
00:31:16.209 --> 00:31:20.289
Well, there's something about visually seeing how far apart you are from somebody, too.
00:31:20.529 --> 00:31:26.609
Like I'm very far apart from Jeremy on that expressive spectrum.
00:31:26.849 --> 00:31:33.969
And so I can then sort of understand that my reality is very different than his.
00:31:34.529 --> 00:31:35.649
And that that's okay.
00:31:35.809 --> 00:31:37.169
It's not bad or good.
00:31:37.329 --> 00:31:38.529
It's just very different.
00:31:38.609 --> 00:31:42.849
So he has a very different way of moving through the world on that dimension.
00:31:43.809 --> 00:31:44.129
Yeah.
00:31:44.289 --> 00:31:46.849
Or when you saw Melissa's, you were like, oh my God, hilarious.
00:31:47.009 --> 00:31:48.689
No wonder all those businesses failed.
00:31:49.249 --> 00:31:51.809
Look at us over here with all these ideas and no structure.
00:31:51.969 --> 00:31:52.129
Yeah.
00:31:53.009 --> 00:31:59.889
That's she's an interesting one too, because um, she's doing some work for me for Sheer right now as a contractor and some some content marketing stuff.
00:32:00.049 --> 00:32:07.969
And um, in the beginning, I was asking a little bit more of her than I probably should have, knowing how she operates because she's not structured.
00:32:08.129 --> 00:32:14.609
And so I've been using um the insight guide to ask questions about her and my relationship professionally.
00:32:14.769 --> 00:32:25.729
Like I have a whole overlay just dedicated to her and I working together on sheer stuff in that context because we are very different in a working environment together than we are when we travel together.
00:32:25.889 --> 00:32:27.329
We're not loosey goosey.
00:32:27.409 --> 00:32:32.209
I have like I'm more challenging in my role as a founder than I am in my role as a travel companion.
00:32:32.289 --> 00:32:34.049
I'm super loose.
00:32:34.929 --> 00:32:37.729
I'm super harmonizing when I travel when I travel.
00:32:38.049 --> 00:32:45.249
But um, I'm a little bit more challenging in a role where where there's something at stake and I really need something to happen.
00:32:45.409 --> 00:32:47.329
I'll push, I'll push a little harder, right?
00:32:47.489 --> 00:32:49.089
Um and she's more harmonizing than I am.
00:32:49.169 --> 00:32:51.489
So I've been actually using the insight guide a lot to solve problems.
00:32:51.569 --> 00:32:54.929
I'll put an email in there and be like, hey, this is what I want to say to Melissa.
00:32:55.249 --> 00:32:57.889
What should I say so that she'll hear me and not get defensive?
00:32:58.049 --> 00:33:05.809
And it'll, you know, spit back something at me and then, you know, and then I I edit that to match my voice, and then I put it back in and say, update your instructions.
00:33:05.969 --> 00:33:07.089
This is how I talk.
00:33:08.209 --> 00:33:15.169
But but you know, preserving the relationship, we get to the solution faster because neither one of us is secretly feeling any resentment.
00:33:15.489 --> 00:33:16.529
Yeah, yeah.
00:33:16.769 --> 00:33:17.089
Okay.
00:33:17.249 --> 00:33:17.969
Well, I love it.
00:33:18.049 --> 00:33:20.849
Everyone listening should go take the sheer assessment.
00:33:20.929 --> 00:33:22.929
I'm gonna link it in the show notes, obviously.
00:33:23.169 --> 00:33:31.809
I know you and I both do not really love social media, but is there anywhere people should go to hang out with you or just take the assessment, then they'll be in the loop.
00:33:31.889 --> 00:33:32.689
Or what do you want them to do?
00:33:32.929 --> 00:33:38.449
Yeah, I mean, the sh the sheerpersonality.com s-h-e-e-r is is where you can start taking the test.
00:33:38.529 --> 00:33:43.969
And we're on LinkedIn and I'm on LinkedIn and I'm on Instagram too, but mostly personally.
00:33:44.209 --> 00:33:44.369
Yeah.
00:33:44.529 --> 00:33:46.449
I'm I'm more of a lurker these days.
00:33:46.689 --> 00:33:47.329
I love it.
00:33:47.569 --> 00:33:48.049
All right.
00:33:48.209 --> 00:33:50.129
Well, I uh thank you so much for being here.
00:33:50.289 --> 00:33:52.769
This was so fun, and I'll talk to you soon.
00:33:53.009 --> 00:33:53.649
Bye.
00:00:45.210 --> 00:01:03.210
Okay, if you love things like Enneagram, Human Design, Myers Briggs, Clifton Strengths, all the things, you're gonna love today's episode because my guest today has created a new way to see your personality and overlay it with the personalities of your coworkers, partner, best friends, or whoever you want to.
00:01:03.530 --> 00:01:04.810
It is seriously so cool.
00:01:04.969 --> 00:01:07.769
We're gonna dive into it and my results and all the things.
00:01:07.849 --> 00:01:14.490
And in case you're new here, you're listening to my cool series called Cool People Doing Cool Things on my podcast, Big Fun Small Business.
00:01:14.569 --> 00:01:19.849
And I'm your host, Deanna Seymour, graphic designer and founder of The Playhouse, where networking is actually fun.
00:01:20.090 --> 00:01:22.170
Today I'm hanging out with Kara Steinman.
00:01:22.730 --> 00:01:30.250
She's the founder of Sheer Personality, helping people understand themselves and each other through a new framework for relational intelligence.
00:01:30.650 --> 00:01:32.409
All right, let's get to it.
00:01:35.849 --> 00:01:37.289
Hey Kara, how's it going?
00:01:37.530 --> 00:01:38.890
Hey, Dee, how are you doing?
00:01:39.450 --> 00:01:40.170
I am good.
00:01:40.329 --> 00:01:41.849
I'm so happy to talk to you today.
00:01:42.009 --> 00:01:43.370
I feel like it's been too long.
00:01:43.450 --> 00:01:46.409
We've both been like in the weeds, heads down, working hard.
00:01:46.650 --> 00:01:46.969
I know.
00:01:47.049 --> 00:01:51.930
I feel so bad when I get busy and I like let some of my relationships go stagnant, but we always come back.
00:01:52.170 --> 00:01:52.409
Yeah.
00:01:52.570 --> 00:01:54.730
I feel like we have even checked in along the way.
00:01:54.810 --> 00:01:57.769
It's just not usual long hangs.
00:01:58.090 --> 00:02:05.210
But then as I saw what you were creating start to come to life, I was like, oh my God, do you want to be on the series cool people doing cool things?
00:02:05.290 --> 00:02:06.250
Because you're doing cool things.
00:02:06.489 --> 00:02:07.210
I appreciate it.
00:02:07.290 --> 00:02:07.769
Thank you.
00:02:08.009 --> 00:02:08.329
Okay.
00:02:08.650 --> 00:02:22.090
So let's just dive right in because I feel like we all love, and you're gonna correct me if I'm wrong by calling it like a personality thing or uh like I feel like Enneagrams, human design, anybody listening who loves those things is gonna love shear, right?
00:02:22.650 --> 00:02:26.889
That's probably the easiest way to understand it is that it it is a personality test.
00:02:26.969 --> 00:02:33.930
It's an it's another way to look at yourself and develop self-concept, understand what you're all about, how you move through the world, right?
00:02:34.250 --> 00:02:34.730
Mm-hmm.
00:02:34.889 --> 00:02:35.689
And I love it.
00:02:36.009 --> 00:02:40.409
So dive in, tell us, tell us what it is, maybe why you made it.
00:02:40.490 --> 00:02:43.769
Because I know you come from a background of like networking and relationships and all this stuff.
00:02:43.849 --> 00:02:48.490
So give us the quick story of why you made it and then tell us what the heck it is.
00:02:48.650 --> 00:02:48.969
Okay.
00:02:49.210 --> 00:02:57.930
Well, I will tell you most of you probably like you and everybody else who's really close to me in business right now has been watching, been watching me do like the networking relationship thing, right?
00:02:58.090 --> 00:03:03.930
But my actual real background, if you go back 25 years, is psychology and personality science.
00:03:04.009 --> 00:03:08.250
And I've been kind of obsessed with like, why are we the way we are forever?
00:03:08.490 --> 00:03:11.370
Like a giant personality nerd.
00:03:11.610 --> 00:03:16.009
And I like eat to the point where even in, and I've always felt kind of like not normal.
00:03:16.090 --> 00:03:18.650
And maybe that's the ADHD thing or then I know you get it.
00:03:18.729 --> 00:03:20.890
Like, I'm like, I don't quite fit here.
00:03:21.050 --> 00:03:32.409
I'm not sure why, but like in college, I took uh at junior college, I took abnormal personality and got an A and was like, well, I still don't really understand what's wrong with me.
00:03:32.650 --> 00:03:36.890
And so I took it again when I got to UC Davis, thinking maybe that the teaching would be better, higher quality.
00:03:36.969 --> 00:03:39.449
And I got an A again, still didn't, still walked away.
00:03:39.530 --> 00:03:41.849
Like, I still why am I I don't understand?
00:03:42.090 --> 00:03:48.810
So like there's this deep need in me to understand people and why we are the way they are, why we are the way we are.
00:03:49.050 --> 00:03:54.169
And so, like over time, anybody who's obsessed with this kind of thing takes all the tests, discs.
00:03:54.330 --> 00:03:58.090
I I became a Clifton Strengths coach at one point in time recently.
00:03:58.250 --> 00:04:04.090
Um, you know, Enneagram, human design, astrology, all of these tools are super valuable.
00:04:04.330 --> 00:04:07.050
But um they're all they all have like some flaw.
00:04:07.129 --> 00:04:07.849
Nothing's perfect, right?
00:04:07.930 --> 00:04:14.969
But I think if you take a grain of a grain of truth from each, you can kind of get a picture of who you are and how you move through the world.
00:04:15.289 --> 00:04:26.009
So shear is is largely derived from the big five, which is one of the more validated, more regularly studied, um, it's a temperament test.
00:04:26.250 --> 00:04:31.210
Shear came to be because we don't have a really good way to look at ourselves outside of a box.
00:04:31.449 --> 00:04:38.090
Like you get boxed into your Myers-Briggs type, you're boxed into one of what is it, nine Enneagram types.
00:04:38.250 --> 00:04:52.889
Um, and some of the really validated personality science, like big five, gives you a really good like basis for understanding how you move through the world and maybe how you relate, but it's it's like zero to a hundred.
00:04:53.370 --> 00:04:59.049
So, like if you're if you're neurotic on that scale, nobody wants to self-identify that way.
00:04:59.529 --> 00:05:03.370
Nobody's gonna say, Oh, I'm I'm highly neurotic, I'm very low in conscientiousness.
00:05:03.610 --> 00:05:05.690
Like, that's just not how we want to see ourselves.
00:05:05.769 --> 00:05:07.049
It's kind of like not great language.
00:05:07.210 --> 00:05:19.129
So I sort of reimagined it and took a lot of different pieces from different personality science like avenues and created a framework that's more friendly for us to self-identify with.
00:05:19.210 --> 00:05:23.769
It helps reframe some of the maybe ways we've been misunderstood.
00:05:23.929 --> 00:05:26.250
It's also delivered on a spectrum.
00:05:26.409 --> 00:05:34.409
So SHER is an acronym and it stands for structure, harmony, emotional permeability, expression, and receptivity.
00:05:34.570 --> 00:05:40.970
And so those are all, we all live somewhere on a spectrum, on the spectrum of each of those five dimensions.
00:05:41.210 --> 00:05:54.490
And when you take the SHEAR assessment, you see where you fall on each of those spectrums, but we present it in like in a shape, in a constellation, so that you can kind of visually see where you where you fall.
00:05:54.649 --> 00:05:57.129
And nothing's nothing's like written in stone, right?
00:05:57.210 --> 00:06:04.970
In different contexts, like I'm highly adaptive, but in different contexts, under certain types of pressure, I might have to be more structured.
00:06:05.289 --> 00:06:09.929
But in order to be a naturally structured person, it's gonna take a lot of energy for me.
00:06:10.090 --> 00:06:10.570
I'm just not.
00:06:10.970 --> 00:06:13.929
I'm like, yo, I'm like, uh, have to happen.
00:06:14.409 --> 00:06:15.049
And I've structured.
00:06:15.289 --> 00:06:19.690
And this is why it's important because we move through our lives as these people as this person.
00:06:19.769 --> 00:06:21.450
I am this person whether I like it or not.
00:06:21.610 --> 00:06:23.769
Like sometimes, like yesterday, I had a really bad day.
00:06:23.850 --> 00:06:25.129
I was being a total spaz.
00:06:25.210 --> 00:06:29.610
My sister called me out, and I felt really shitty about it because I am kind of a spaz.
00:06:30.250 --> 00:06:32.490
And it really works for me in some ways.
00:06:32.649 --> 00:06:35.610
In some ways, it's really difficult, but she's also highly structured.
00:06:35.850 --> 00:06:43.210
So we do struggle, and that's kind of where shear is different than a personality test because it is actually a relational intelligence system.
00:06:43.370 --> 00:07:00.090
So you take your assessment, you learn about yourself, you do, you understand how your patterns show up, and then you can overlay that your pattern with someone else's and look at how you show up together and where you might find conflict or where you might thrive, what you might be really great at doing together.
00:07:00.169 --> 00:07:08.090
So there's a lot of implication here for team building and conflict resolution, romantic relationships, co-founders.
00:07:08.250 --> 00:07:15.370
Um, like I was just telling you before we started recording, my my one of my good friends, Mel, one of my best biz besties, Mel, from like way back.
00:07:15.529 --> 00:07:18.889
We've started so many businesses together and failed at every single one.
00:07:18.970 --> 00:07:26.889
I just wrote a Substack article about it because it's so funny now that I look at our constellations, our sheer constellations over top of each other, because we're two alike.
00:07:27.210 --> 00:07:37.690
We're we have there's no, we're really adaptive, we're both super adaptive and open to new ideas, very receptive, and we have no structure and no like no guardrails.
00:07:37.850 --> 00:07:49.610
So we would start something and then we would come back together the following week, and nothing had been done, and we had changed our plan, and we had like just terrible co-founders, great friends, we travel really well together.
00:07:49.769 --> 00:07:52.649
So these are different contexts of our relationship, right?
00:07:52.970 --> 00:07:53.529
Yeah.
00:07:53.850 --> 00:07:57.690
Or you just have to pull in a third person to keep you guys in line.
00:07:57.929 --> 00:08:01.049
Like I love the okay, because it's kind of tricky sometimes.
00:08:01.129 --> 00:08:06.330
You're like, okay, well, and I never know a lot about human design or Enneagram or all that.
00:08:06.409 --> 00:08:12.250
Like, I feel like I just skim the surface of all of it because I think it's cool, but then I like move on too quick, like another shiny object.
00:08:12.490 --> 00:08:14.649
But you know, I'm like, okay, well, I'm a seven.
00:08:14.889 --> 00:08:15.850
Who should I like?
00:08:16.009 --> 00:08:17.450
How does that relate to other people?
00:08:17.769 --> 00:08:20.250
And I'm sure people know that and they could teach me.
00:08:20.490 --> 00:08:26.169
But the cool thing is where you can easily see on the way the constellation is mapped out.
00:08:26.250 --> 00:08:26.330
Yeah.
00:08:26.490 --> 00:08:30.330
So people listening, like I've taken this year um assessment also.
00:08:30.730 --> 00:08:43.929
And actually, when I pulled mine up before this interview to show Kara, you started cracking up because you were like, Oh my god, ours are almost the same, except for I am more structured than you, but all our other dots in this constellation look very similar.
00:08:44.090 --> 00:08:48.490
So I just think it's really a really cool visual, you know, as a former art teacher to see.
00:08:48.809 --> 00:08:57.289
Oh, like you you immediately saw your you and um Melissa's stuff together and were like, oh, that answers a lot of questions.
00:08:57.450 --> 00:09:04.490
And like that's what I mean when I say that that there are little bits and pieces of all of the different personality um assessments that I've studied over the years.
00:09:04.649 --> 00:09:13.129
Like, I wanted to present this on a spectrum, but I also wanted to present it visually in a way that was closer to what disc does.
00:09:13.289 --> 00:09:20.569
Because disk will um some disk assessments will show you your personality in like a more circle, more in like a circle.
00:09:20.730 --> 00:09:25.209
And the closer you are to the middle of the circle, the easier it is for you to get to the other side.
00:09:26.089 --> 00:09:26.329
Right?
00:09:26.490 --> 00:09:29.289
And that's kind of like you being more structured.
00:09:29.449 --> 00:09:33.929
It's easier for you to move in and out of structure and out adaptivity than it is for me.
00:09:34.089 --> 00:09:37.209
You can get to structure, you're you're kind of in the middle of that one.
00:09:37.769 --> 00:09:43.129
It's way easier for you to be more structured if you have to be than it is for me because I'm way over on the other side of the spectrum.
00:09:43.209 --> 00:09:44.970
It takes a lot more energy for me to get there.
00:09:45.209 --> 00:09:48.250
Yeah, like your dot is way further down towards adaptive.
00:09:48.409 --> 00:09:55.850
So anybody listening who's like, Deanna got structured, I did, but I'm not like full up into all the way on structured.
00:09:55.929 --> 00:09:58.409
I'm like poking my head into structured.
00:09:58.809 --> 00:10:02.649
And that's where it kind of gets interesting too, because these different dimensions play together.
00:10:02.970 --> 00:10:08.730
So you don't always appear very structured because you're really high in receptivity, too.
00:10:09.449 --> 00:10:13.529
And so you are not going to turn down a new idea just because it's new.
00:10:13.689 --> 00:10:21.850
Somebody who's more selective on that reset on that um rescale, who's more selective, is gonna be like, I need to think about nope, this is working fine the way it is.
00:10:21.929 --> 00:10:25.289
We're not entertaining new ideas, let's just stick with what we've got.
00:10:25.449 --> 00:10:29.449
Um, you're willing to sit and play around with new ideas and more like play with what if.
00:10:29.850 --> 00:10:33.449
And so you do tend to adapt more easily because of that.
00:10:33.769 --> 00:10:36.250
Well, that's funny because I'm looking at my thing on my screen.
00:10:36.409 --> 00:10:44.569
And on yeah, on between selective and receptive, I'm like almost all the way turned up to 10, like turned all the way up to receptive.
00:10:44.730 --> 00:10:45.769
So that makes sense.
00:10:46.089 --> 00:10:48.089
How it can play off each other.
00:10:48.169 --> 00:10:52.730
So let's okay, because for someone listening who's like, y'all are talking about the constellation and I can't even see it.
00:10:52.809 --> 00:10:55.929
Do you want to talk about the different spectrums that are on the chart?
00:10:56.169 --> 00:10:56.809
Yeah, let's do that.
00:10:57.370 --> 00:10:58.009
Okay, let's do that.
00:10:58.089 --> 00:11:00.409
And also they could just pause it and go take it's free assessment.
00:11:00.569 --> 00:11:00.889
Yes.
00:11:01.209 --> 00:11:06.409
Just go sheerpersonality.com, start the assessment and and take it.
00:11:06.889 --> 00:11:09.769
So so she do you want to talk about each one of the dimensions?
00:11:09.929 --> 00:11:10.649
Yeah, is that okay?
00:11:10.809 --> 00:11:13.610
Okay, so structure is how you relate to structure.
00:11:13.769 --> 00:11:19.529
You're either somewhere on the spectrum on the spectrum of structured versus adaptive.
00:11:19.850 --> 00:11:28.329
Um, in the middle, you have a lot more flexibility to move in and out of structure or adaptive, depending on the context and where you're at.
00:11:28.490 --> 00:11:31.850
If you're way on that structured side, like imagine me on a team, I'm super adaptive.
00:11:32.009 --> 00:11:36.089
I'm like as far as you can get on adaptive and receptivity.
00:11:36.169 --> 00:11:38.490
So I look like a spaz a lot of the time.
00:11:38.970 --> 00:11:40.970
But that's not what's going on.
00:11:41.289 --> 00:11:51.289
So if I'm on a team with somebody who's highly structured and I'm highly adaptive, you can see where there could be conflict unless there's somebody in there who's closer to the middle.
00:11:51.370 --> 00:11:58.730
Like you would be a great person to help soften that relationship between me and the person who's really structured.
00:11:58.970 --> 00:12:07.129
Because we're not gonna naturally understand each other unless maybe we've taken shear and we understand what's going on here and we can have use this.
00:12:07.209 --> 00:12:08.490
This sort of gives us language.
00:12:08.649 --> 00:12:13.689
So initially, you go learn about yourself, take your take your shear assessment, get your constellation.
00:12:13.850 --> 00:12:18.089
We've got an insight guide too that's like we've trained an AI agent to help you understand.
00:12:18.169 --> 00:12:20.009
You can ask it questions and stuff and name it.
00:12:20.089 --> 00:12:21.449
I named mine Iris.
00:12:21.610 --> 00:12:24.730
And so I talk to Iris and I say, Why am I having such a hard time with this?
00:12:24.889 --> 00:12:27.610
And she's like, Well, you're probably leaning into this or that.
00:12:28.409 --> 00:12:32.649
So, anyway, that's where that's where it gets really interesting when you when you start looking at teams.
00:12:32.730 --> 00:12:39.929
But so that's I could see it with like um even like an online business with the people I mostly work with, like I could see them wanting to hire a VA.
00:12:40.169 --> 00:12:53.049
And if there was a way to like see their sheer personality type, I feel like in this sense, probably like maybe not total opposites attract, but like kind of like how you were saying you and Melissa working together was like no structure.
00:12:53.370 --> 00:12:56.730
Somebody like me would well, I guess I'm kind of in the middle on that.
00:12:56.809 --> 00:13:01.049
But you know, I do crave structure, like that's where I need a little bit of help.
00:13:01.129 --> 00:13:15.209
So I think seeing even people you're gonna hire, or people have hired me before, and I don't know what this means about their sheer personality, but they will like write me with like edits or something and just be like, I need a little, like, hey, good morning.
00:13:16.089 --> 00:13:21.769
Like, I want it to be like nice and fluffy and friendly before you're like, okay, on slide one, I want to change this, on slide two, I'm gonna change.
00:13:22.009 --> 00:13:26.649
And I'm like, ew, this person is so rude and treating me like a robot, and I hate it.
00:13:26.889 --> 00:13:33.289
But also, if I knew their constellation, maybe I would be like, okay, well, they're just like super yeah, they're to my point or whatever.
00:13:33.610 --> 00:13:37.209
So, so that might that brings us to like another one of those is harmony, right?
00:13:37.370 --> 00:13:38.809
You're pretty high in harmony.
00:13:39.449 --> 00:13:41.209
I'm a little bit more close to the middle.
00:13:41.289 --> 00:13:48.490
So I can be a little bit of a pain in the ass when I want to change something or when I see something that needs to be fixed, or when I I don't know.
00:13:48.569 --> 00:13:54.649
So harmony, harmony on that side of the spectrum, your your primary focus is maintaining the relationship.
00:13:55.209 --> 00:13:57.850
And on the other side is the highly challenging person.
00:13:58.009 --> 00:14:04.970
And I intentionally did use the word challenging because I think women especially, we get a bad rap if we're quote, challenging.
00:14:05.129 --> 00:14:06.809
Um, but I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
00:14:06.970 --> 00:14:08.730
There's there's an upside and a downside to everything.
00:14:08.809 --> 00:14:17.929
And if you're highly challenging, you're getting to the truth, you're getting to the bottom of it, you're pressing, you're pressing for progress regardless of what it means to the relationship.
00:14:18.169 --> 00:14:25.529
And again, imagine a relationship, imagine a husband and wife where one of them is highly harmonizing and the other one is highly challenging.
00:14:25.769 --> 00:14:30.569
It's gonna cause conflict unless you know exactly what you're dealing with and you have language to work around it.
00:14:31.449 --> 00:14:35.449
So then you so structure harmony, um, emotional permeability.
00:14:35.689 --> 00:14:40.009
So you just you just mentioned your email, your preference for email conversation.
00:14:40.169 --> 00:14:41.049
I'm the same way.
00:14:41.209 --> 00:14:43.610
I'm I'm pretty high on emotional permeability.
00:14:43.689 --> 00:14:45.929
I feel a lot of the people's emotions around me.
00:14:46.089 --> 00:14:51.049
If I'm in a room and something, somebody gets in a fight, I physically feel that.
00:14:51.370 --> 00:14:56.409
And and I I really like I it lives with me for a little while in my body.
00:14:56.569 --> 00:15:01.209
Other people aren't as affected by other people's emotions, they don't pick up the vibe in the room.
00:15:01.449 --> 00:15:06.329
So the next one is expression, and that one's really about like how you process internally or externally.
00:15:06.409 --> 00:15:14.889
It's not it's not like introversion, it's more about like how you process and how much visible like energy you bring to an interaction.
00:15:15.129 --> 00:15:19.449
So like I'm highly, I'm pretty expressive, I'm moderately expressive.
00:15:19.610 --> 00:15:22.809
And so I actually have to talk out loud to think through stuff sometimes.
00:15:22.970 --> 00:15:26.970
I can't take something and sit and think about it.
00:15:27.129 --> 00:15:31.689
Like I will talk to myself if I have to to work through something.
00:15:31.850 --> 00:15:39.929
Whereas my husband, and I got a whole other post coming about opposites also because we're totally his his and my constellation barely touch.
00:15:40.009 --> 00:15:45.129
We only touch, we're exactly the same in in um harmony on the harmony spectrum.
00:15:45.209 --> 00:15:50.409
So I think that's part of why it does work, but he is highly receptive.
00:15:50.569 --> 00:15:56.970
So on that expressive selective spectrum, or I'm sorry, expressive reflective.
00:15:57.529 --> 00:15:58.649
I'm highly expressive.
00:15:58.730 --> 00:15:59.689
I need to talk out loud.
00:15:59.850 --> 00:16:03.529
He's reflective, he needs to take something and sit with it for a minute and think about it.
00:16:03.689 --> 00:16:14.889
And so it was really interesting when when I had him do it, I had him test it for me when we were still in the development phase, and I saw his his constellation and I was like, yeah, duh, I know this.
00:16:15.049 --> 00:16:18.169
And he really pretty much knew all that he had learned about him.
00:16:18.490 --> 00:16:22.490
Sheer didn't really tell him too much about himself that he didn't already know, right?
00:16:22.649 --> 00:16:26.490
But where it got interesting was where we asked the insight, we did the overlay.
00:16:26.730 --> 00:16:36.250
And the report said, one of your biggest challenges as a couple is going to be her high expression and your high reflection.
00:16:36.569 --> 00:16:40.970
Because when you guys need to do something together, she's gonna be chasing you around trying to talk about it.
00:16:41.049 --> 00:16:43.129
And you're like, oh my God, leave me alone.
00:16:43.289 --> 00:16:44.730
I have to process this.
00:16:44.970 --> 00:16:47.129
I'm dying laughing because this is me and Matt, 100%.
00:16:47.370 --> 00:16:49.049
Like, I'm like, oh my God, you don't even care.
00:16:49.129 --> 00:16:50.490
And he's like, Oh my god, chill.
00:16:50.569 --> 00:16:56.250
And I'm like, or I just am telling him my thoughts as they enter my head, and he is like, okay.
00:16:56.490 --> 00:16:58.569
Yeah, and sometimes my thoughts aren't formed yet.
00:16:58.649 --> 00:17:01.610
And so yeah, he's actually really highly, he's actually really structured.
00:17:01.689 --> 00:17:02.889
My husband's really structured too.
00:17:02.970 --> 00:17:10.009
So if I'm talking my way through something and the structure is not complete, he's really uncomfortable and I'm talking out loud.
00:17:10.970 --> 00:17:14.569
And he's like trying to process what you just said, and then you're like, actually, you know what?
00:17:14.890 --> 00:17:16.650
Um, and it's the opposite of what I just said.
00:17:16.730 --> 00:17:18.009
So I just changed my mind.
00:17:18.089 --> 00:17:18.490
You know what?
00:17:18.569 --> 00:17:20.730
Like, never mind, never mind what I said.
00:17:20.890 --> 00:17:28.009
So so that was interesting though, because I didn't, I didn't pester him about I wanted feedback on Sheer, but I didn't pester him.
00:17:28.089 --> 00:17:33.690
And then like two nights later, we were at dinner and he just started giving me feedback without me asking.
00:17:33.769 --> 00:17:44.569
And he was, he said that what he had taken away from it more than anything was not he knew he was reflective and needed to process internally, but he didn't realize how that came across to other people.
00:17:44.889 --> 00:17:47.769
So at his work, he has to talk on the phone a lot to people.
00:17:47.849 --> 00:17:57.210
And he he realized that when he's talking to people and he needs to process, they probably think he's disengaging from the conversation, that he's not there, that he doesn't care.
00:17:58.250 --> 00:18:03.849
And so he started telling people at work, I'm with you, I'm engaged, I just need a second to process.
00:18:04.089 --> 00:18:10.170
And it's totally changed the way that people are receiving him because they just they just needed to know that.
00:18:10.410 --> 00:18:10.649
Yeah.
00:18:10.809 --> 00:18:17.930
And he actually used that on me at dinner that night too, because I was talking and he got quiet and he's like, I'm with you, I'm still here.
00:18:18.089 --> 00:18:19.129
I'm just thinking.
00:18:19.450 --> 00:18:22.009
And I was like, Oh, you, oh, you are so cute.
00:18:22.089 --> 00:18:23.849
Look at you using my own stuff on me.
00:18:24.089 --> 00:18:25.769
Well, I think that's what's so cool about it.
00:18:25.849 --> 00:18:34.889
And I think knowing you for for years now, the fact that you, like you were saying, people who've known you forever know you as like a networking person, a relationship person.
00:18:35.049 --> 00:18:38.809
And so this is a way to take a personality test.
00:18:38.889 --> 00:18:44.730
But the overlay, and I love, I love that you're using the word overlay because it really does feel like I don't know, we're in our 40s.
00:18:44.809 --> 00:18:53.769
We all know about an overhead projector back in school, and the teacher could like put multiple pieces of clear acetate on that overhead projector.
00:18:53.930 --> 00:18:57.450
I feel like that's basically what you can do inside shear.
00:18:57.609 --> 00:18:58.649
And it's so cool.
00:18:58.970 --> 00:19:05.129
Right now, we're beta testing um multiple overlays um because at a certain point it does get a little messy looking.
00:19:05.289 --> 00:19:10.329
So right now, people who are beta testing for us can overlay up to five people.
00:19:10.649 --> 00:19:18.649
Um and and I set it at five because I really want to overlay me and my four best friends from high school as a way to test how accurate this is because I know them so well.
00:19:18.809 --> 00:19:26.970
You know, like I know why me and Jen have trouble when we travel because she's the one with the itinerary, like ruining all my adaptability.
00:19:27.369 --> 00:19:28.410
So where were we?
00:19:28.490 --> 00:19:32.889
Um, that was expression, and then we've got we talked about emotional permeability.
00:19:33.690 --> 00:19:40.730
Um, and then the last one is receptivity, and that one's about your openness to ideas and other ways of thinking.
00:19:40.970 --> 00:19:51.529
Um, people who are highly receptive tend to like to entertain things that they don't understand that might be different from what they believe, even if they don't plan on changing their mind.
00:19:51.690 --> 00:20:16.689
Like we're we're the ones you're pretty receptive to, and we're willing to sit there and be like, we love the what if ideas, like, oh my god, what if this, what if that?
00:20:16.769 --> 00:20:18.609
That would be so fun, that would be so cool.
00:20:18.769 --> 00:20:24.609
Um, I sometimes wonder if it if it is part of like the way that I ruminate though, too.
00:20:24.769 --> 00:20:28.449
Like, because it's not always happy cool stuff that we're saying what if about.
00:20:28.609 --> 00:20:32.609
Like, I'm like, I'm imagining all the terrible scenarios sometimes too.
00:20:32.849 --> 00:20:33.409
Yes.
00:20:33.729 --> 00:20:35.249
So like a lot of imagination.
00:20:35.329 --> 00:20:50.449
And then on the other side of that, um, you've got more selective people who are selective are they have the way that they think about it, and it's not they're not gonna let something, some new perspective or something that's gonna shift their their reality.
00:20:50.609 --> 00:20:52.369
They're not gonna entertain that quite as easily.
00:20:52.609 --> 00:20:56.609
They're like, who cares about shiny objects, you ding dong, stay focused on what we're on.
00:20:57.009 --> 00:21:01.809
They're more focused, they're more selective about what they're willing to put their that's a great way to say it.
00:21:01.969 --> 00:21:02.849
More focus.
00:21:03.249 --> 00:21:07.249
So it kind of makes sense too that like, I mean, I just now I'm like interested.
00:21:07.329 --> 00:21:11.569
I'm like, oh my god, I want to see a bunch of different people, even if I don't know them.
00:21:11.649 --> 00:21:15.809
I'm just interested to see how it can all land for a person.
00:21:16.049 --> 00:21:20.449
But it seems like maybe I'm wrong, but receptive people are probably more permeable.
00:21:20.689 --> 00:21:21.809
Do you think that's probably true?
00:21:21.969 --> 00:21:24.049
But now I'm turning into a scientist and I'm like, that's my high.
00:21:24.369 --> 00:21:24.689
I don't know.
00:21:24.769 --> 00:21:25.809
These are these are great questions.
00:21:25.969 --> 00:21:27.969
And what I love about this is that we don't know.
00:21:28.129 --> 00:21:33.489
Um, I I'm hoping some like university people will get involved and and we can answer some of these questions.
00:21:33.649 --> 00:21:40.689
Um, I one one interesting related related to what you just said is I'm highly expressive, right?
00:21:41.089 --> 00:21:43.569
Which looks like I'm extroverted.
00:21:43.729 --> 00:21:47.329
Um and and I do think I probably am extroverted.
00:21:47.409 --> 00:21:49.489
I I am quick to jump into conversations.
00:21:49.569 --> 00:21:55.569
I love talking to other people, but I also really get burnt out easily and I need a lot of downtime.
00:21:55.729 --> 00:21:59.329
I need a lot of alone time before I want to be with people again.
00:21:59.489 --> 00:22:03.329
And I realized through sheer, it gave me an explanation for this.
00:22:03.489 --> 00:22:05.969
Um, and I didn't come up with this actually the insight guide.
00:22:06.049 --> 00:22:15.569
I asked my insight guide, I was like, why do I seem so introverted sometimes when I'm clearly more like I'm I'm expressive, I'm around people, I have to talk out loud.
00:22:15.729 --> 00:22:19.569
Um, and it pointed out that I'm highly permeable, highly emotionally permeable too.
00:22:19.809 --> 00:22:26.929
So especially big crowds, like if I go to a concert or I'm at a big party or something like that, it'll take me a while to recover from that.
00:22:27.009 --> 00:22:36.049
And I think it's just absorbing all that energy from other people, um picking up on picking up on all the little emotional social cues that are out there.
00:22:36.289 --> 00:22:42.209
Yeah, like somebody who's maybe like really expressive, but what's on the other side of permeable?
00:22:42.369 --> 00:22:42.849
Grounded.
00:22:43.089 --> 00:22:43.729
Grounded, yeah.
00:22:43.809 --> 00:22:49.889
If you um would that just be like that's like more probably more like a person who could be extroverted all the time.
00:22:50.049 --> 00:22:56.289
And yeah, if you were grounded, if you were grounded and highly expressive, you probably wouldn't need a lot of time to recover.
00:22:56.449 --> 00:22:56.689
Yeah.
00:22:56.849 --> 00:22:57.169
I'm guessing.
00:22:58.209 --> 00:22:58.369
I know.
00:22:58.689 --> 00:23:02.849
Because you're you're not absorbing, you're not picking up, you're very grounded in in what you feel.
00:23:03.009 --> 00:23:06.209
It's not confused, you're not confusing what you feel with what somebody else feels.
00:23:06.369 --> 00:23:09.249
It's a little bit like that um highly sensitive person thing, you know?
00:23:09.409 --> 00:23:09.649
Yeah.
00:23:09.889 --> 00:23:19.249
Like if you're not, if you're not really impacted by the emotions of the people around you and you are highly expressive, you can probably go all day, is my guess.
00:23:19.489 --> 00:23:19.649
Yeah.
00:23:19.809 --> 00:23:20.369
I'm okay.
00:23:20.529 --> 00:23:24.609
So just if anybody takes a test and they get expressive and grounded.
00:23:24.849 --> 00:23:27.409
Don't take what I'm about to say personally.
00:23:28.049 --> 00:23:35.089
In my mind, someone who would score that with that would kind of be like a person at the party that is like overdoing it.
00:23:35.169 --> 00:23:37.009
Maybe your mansplainer would have that.
00:23:37.169 --> 00:23:43.009
Like it kind of feels like the type of personality too who maybe would like be so set in their ways, but also really loud.
00:23:43.169 --> 00:23:46.609
Like it feels but maybe that's because I'm on the other end of permeable.
00:23:46.689 --> 00:23:49.569
So then I would feel like, ah, you're you're a lot, you know.
00:23:49.649 --> 00:23:49.969
I don't know.
00:23:50.049 --> 00:23:53.969
So if anybody takes it, tell me if you get that because I probably like you if you're listening to this podcast.
00:23:54.049 --> 00:23:56.289
And if you get it, I'm like, change my mind.
00:23:56.529 --> 00:24:02.209
But you know, there's people like that, or they're charismatic, but they're not very um interested in other people.
00:24:02.289 --> 00:24:03.009
You know what I mean?
00:24:03.089 --> 00:24:03.649
Like, I don't know.
00:24:03.889 --> 00:24:09.169
I'm just I'm just the possi all these possibilities are are out here because this is a newer assessment, right?
00:24:09.249 --> 00:24:09.889
This is brand new.
00:24:10.049 --> 00:24:15.329
We just I just developed, I well, I've been developing it for over like 20 years, but it's it's visible now.
00:24:15.409 --> 00:24:17.489
You can see what's been going on in my head for a long time.
00:24:17.889 --> 00:24:25.089
But but when we when we show the when you get your results for shear, you also see that this has a dark side.
00:24:25.249 --> 00:24:29.649
Like any any anywhere you fall has a superpower.
00:24:30.289 --> 00:24:35.649
There's no good or bad position to be on on these spectrums of these dimension spectrums.
00:24:36.129 --> 00:24:41.249
But anything that we anything that we exhibit can have a dark side, right?
00:24:41.409 --> 00:24:54.369
And this is where like some of us who have stronger personalities in some of these dimensions, like my highly adaptive, can I have I have been accused of being flaky in the past because I changed my mind.
00:24:54.929 --> 00:25:04.049
And so for for me, and I'm probably a lot of women with ADHD, I'm imagining, and a lot of people who have stronger parts of their personality, not everybody's super balanced, right?
00:25:04.209 --> 00:25:09.729
That can be a superpower for me, but it's also been framed for me in a really negative way a lot of the time.
00:25:10.209 --> 00:25:23.329
So I think there's a really uh an opportunity for healing here, not just for ourselves, but between people to help understand each other and build more empathy for the parts of ourselves that have been framed poorly.
00:25:23.569 --> 00:25:23.889
I know.
00:25:23.969 --> 00:25:25.569
I'm like, uh, that's a mansplainer.
00:25:25.969 --> 00:25:27.009
I'm like, I'm on this side.
00:25:27.089 --> 00:25:29.249
Anyone who's grounded is totally a mansplainer.
00:25:29.569 --> 00:25:33.569
But that's that's where the self, the self, the self-reflection and the awareness comes in.
00:25:33.729 --> 00:25:35.249
If you know more, you do better.
00:25:35.409 --> 00:25:38.129
You if we have responsibility, if we know more, we have to do better.
00:25:38.369 --> 00:25:43.729
So if I, and this is what happened, I was telling you, I got in an argument with my sister yesterday because I was being a spaz.
00:25:44.129 --> 00:25:46.609
And I thought about it all afternoon because I was like, you know what?
00:25:46.689 --> 00:25:54.129
I really have to own that because I was my adaptable and receptive, like a couple of my dimensions yesterday for some reason were just out of control.
00:25:54.289 --> 00:25:55.649
I was, I maybe it's the coffee.
00:25:55.729 --> 00:25:56.049
I don't know.
00:25:56.129 --> 00:26:00.209
I don't usually drink coffee and I did drink coffee yesterday, but I was out of control.
00:26:00.609 --> 00:26:08.209
And anything that goes wild and you have no like con like you have no, you have to be aware of it, right?
00:26:08.369 --> 00:26:12.609
And then you can kind of like moderate it a little bit or modulate it a little bit.
00:26:12.929 --> 00:26:14.369
Yeah, I like this.
00:26:14.529 --> 00:26:24.209
Okay, and like I mean, I feel like being permeable or expressive could also be like people might have said you're too sensitive, like thinking about like how people say that.
00:26:24.369 --> 00:26:33.009
Or even um, I will say too that sometimes with like harmonizing, I can get myself in trouble sometimes feeling like I'm not like picking a side.
00:26:33.169 --> 00:26:33.729
You know what I mean?
00:26:33.809 --> 00:26:40.049
Like I'm like, well, I'm just trying to like see it from both sides, and it can feel like what take a stance, chomp.
00:26:40.209 --> 00:26:45.969
And then I'm like, ah, I just want everyone to like be happy and nice, like or like people pleasing, right?
00:26:46.129 --> 00:26:50.609
Like you have to be careful not to fall into the trap of people pleasing.
00:26:50.769 --> 00:26:56.289
Um, and like I'm not I'm not gonna get into like the trauma response of that either, because we have fawning too, right?
00:26:56.529 --> 00:27:04.929
But I think in my personal opinion, I think that the difference between that, like if it's a trauma response, it's it's more about you compromising your boundaries.
00:27:05.089 --> 00:27:16.129
And if you're genuinely harmonizing, you're probably in a healthy way, you're not compromising your boundaries, you're just nurturing the relationship as opposed to the the challenging it.
00:27:16.449 --> 00:27:17.009
Yeah, yeah.
00:27:17.169 --> 00:27:27.089
I probably my teacher background makes me a harmonizer too, because you're like trying to lead 20 different personalities in a room and trying to make sure everyone is nice to each other.
00:27:27.329 --> 00:27:28.689
And it's a chicken egg thing too, right?
00:27:28.769 --> 00:27:35.249
Or maybe you went into that field because you were it was easy for you to harmonize all these little scally wags.
00:27:35.489 --> 00:27:35.809
I know.
00:27:35.889 --> 00:27:36.369
Oh my gosh.
00:27:36.529 --> 00:27:37.809
All right, now I'm thinking of trolls.
00:27:37.889 --> 00:27:38.209
What is that?
00:27:38.289 --> 00:27:40.369
Like trolls three, where they have to make the perfect harmony.
00:27:40.849 --> 00:27:42.449
Um, I feel like I bring up trolls too much.
00:27:42.529 --> 00:27:43.249
You can tell I have kids.
00:27:43.409 --> 00:27:44.129
I've never seen it.
00:27:44.369 --> 00:27:45.649
Well, your kids are older than my kids.
00:27:46.049 --> 00:27:47.249
Your kids are a lot younger than mine.
00:27:47.409 --> 00:27:47.889
Yeah.
00:27:48.129 --> 00:27:50.289
Um, oh my gosh, Kara, this was so fun.
00:27:50.449 --> 00:27:52.689
Everybody go seriously, take this assessment.
00:27:52.769 --> 00:27:53.809
It's so fun.
00:27:54.129 --> 00:27:56.929
Um, and then also I'm like, tell me what you've got.
00:27:57.009 --> 00:27:58.209
Let's overlay some stuff.
00:27:58.289 --> 00:28:00.449
Let's get out of overhead projectors and let's see what happens.
00:28:01.329 --> 00:28:02.049
Conversations about this.
00:28:02.129 --> 00:28:08.369
I want to hear from people like, oh, I mean my husband did the overlay, and look at what we've been dealing with all these years.
00:28:08.529 --> 00:28:14.529
I thought it would be really interesting to see my husband and I because we've been married for 21 years and like what we've overcome.
00:28:14.849 --> 00:28:15.009
Yeah.
00:28:15.169 --> 00:28:17.009
You're like, look, oh my God, how did we make it?
00:28:17.089 --> 00:28:18.209
Look at our constellation.
00:28:18.449 --> 00:28:19.729
How does this even work?
00:28:19.969 --> 00:28:23.809
Well, I think like couples, couples counselors could totally benefit from this.
00:28:23.889 --> 00:28:34.369
But I mean, like team leaders, people like I can see I'll I honestly too, like teachers, like you know, I feel like I just brought up teaching, but you know, when you're like on the third grade team, that's hard.
00:28:34.449 --> 00:28:37.489
Like I've seen people try to navigate working together.
00:28:37.649 --> 00:28:41.329
Um, I mean, even if I was on the team with the other art team, like the PE teachers.
00:28:41.809 --> 00:28:42.289
Oh, you teach me.
00:28:42.849 --> 00:28:51.009
I've had some like crazy art teacher teams where like I was annoying because the other person, I'm sure, was structured.
00:28:51.169 --> 00:28:56.049
She was about to retire, she was set in her ways, and I wasn't doing anything that she wanted me to do.
00:28:56.289 --> 00:29:06.849
Um well, but it would have been nice to be able to sit down with a mediator or an art supervisor and be like, dude, she wants the cabinet this way, but she gets to teach what she wants.
00:29:07.489 --> 00:29:08.129
You know what I mean?
00:29:08.209 --> 00:29:09.169
I just feel like it's amazing.
00:29:09.249 --> 00:29:19.489
I think and for me, understanding why somebody wants something somehow, like understanding why Jeremy needs why, why he's not responding right away, my husband, that makes it that makes all the difference for me.
00:29:19.649 --> 00:29:22.369
He's not trying to be a dick, he's not pushing me away.
00:29:22.609 --> 00:29:24.609
He's just that's how he processes.
00:29:24.769 --> 00:29:26.609
He needs that to process effectively.
00:29:26.769 --> 00:29:29.009
To give me what I need, that's what he needs.
00:29:29.729 --> 00:29:31.649
And like you mentioned earlier, teams.
00:29:31.809 --> 00:29:37.169
I I'm a I'm a small operation, I'm a solopreneur, but I have like a bunch of contractors that work for me.
00:29:37.329 --> 00:29:40.929
And I'm I'm in very intentionally hiring these days, right?
00:29:41.249 --> 00:29:49.409
Like my developer that I work with most directly, um, we've done the overlay with him and with um my project manager.
00:29:49.649 --> 00:29:55.569
And it it's so beautiful because he's he's pretty structured, but he's also really receptive.
00:29:55.729 --> 00:29:57.649
So he listens and he hears me.
00:29:57.809 --> 00:30:05.249
He just doesn't always, he's not always willing to change direction or move away from the plan unless it makes sense.
00:30:05.489 --> 00:30:08.769
So if we did So he's probably a little bit over on the challenging side too.
00:30:08.849 --> 00:30:11.649
Like he's not scared to be like he's more challenging than I am.
00:30:11.729 --> 00:30:12.209
Yeah, than you are.
00:30:12.449 --> 00:30:12.769
A little bit.
00:30:12.849 --> 00:30:14.369
Yeah, but it's a it's a good balance.
00:30:14.449 --> 00:30:17.809
But I can see that, and and I know that he's really reflective.
00:30:17.889 --> 00:30:19.089
So he's more like my husband.
00:30:19.169 --> 00:30:20.209
He needs to think about stuff.
00:30:20.289 --> 00:30:23.249
So I send him emails and I leave him and then I leave him alone.
00:30:23.329 --> 00:30:24.209
I don't pester him.
00:30:24.289 --> 00:30:26.369
I know that he's gonna take some time to get back to me.
00:30:26.689 --> 00:30:32.449
So knowing that he gets to work in his sweet spot, I get to work in my sweet spot.
00:30:32.689 --> 00:30:40.609
And if I didn't have the people on my team who are great at executing and great at structure and getting shit done, I would never get anything done.
00:30:40.769 --> 00:30:41.009
Yeah.
00:30:41.249 --> 00:30:45.169
So there's there's a lot of um benefit to teams, even if it's a small team.
00:30:45.489 --> 00:30:45.889
Yeah.
00:30:46.129 --> 00:30:47.169
I mean, I love it.
00:30:47.249 --> 00:30:54.929
I also think that if it's like somebody's results, it feels I guess I'm speaking from like, I mean, just any kind of relationship, really.
00:30:55.009 --> 00:30:56.449
I was gonna say like a partner.
00:30:57.009 --> 00:31:00.049
But you're like, oh, that's your that's where you land on this.
00:31:00.449 --> 00:31:04.529
It feels less defensive, or like, what do you mean you have to have time to process?
00:31:04.609 --> 00:31:13.089
Like if someone just says, I need time to process, I think seeing it as a result to me and my brain is like, oh, okay, yeah, he needs more time to process.
00:31:13.169 --> 00:31:15.889
He's not just saying that to like make me leave him alone.
00:31:16.209 --> 00:31:20.289
Well, there's something about visually seeing how far apart you are from somebody, too.
00:31:20.529 --> 00:31:26.609
Like I'm very far apart from Jeremy on that expressive spectrum.
00:31:26.849 --> 00:31:33.969
And so I can then sort of understand that my reality is very different than his.
00:31:34.529 --> 00:31:35.649
And that that's okay.
00:31:35.809 --> 00:31:37.169
It's not bad or good.
00:31:37.329 --> 00:31:38.529
It's just very different.
00:31:38.609 --> 00:31:42.849
So he has a very different way of moving through the world on that dimension.
00:31:43.809 --> 00:31:44.129
Yeah.
00:31:44.289 --> 00:31:46.849
Or when you saw Melissa's, you were like, oh my God, hilarious.
00:31:47.009 --> 00:31:48.689
No wonder all those businesses failed.
00:31:49.249 --> 00:31:51.809
Look at us over here with all these ideas and no structure.
00:31:51.969 --> 00:31:52.129
Yeah.
00:31:53.009 --> 00:31:59.889
That's she's an interesting one too, because um, she's doing some work for me for Sheer right now as a contractor and some some content marketing stuff.
00:32:00.049 --> 00:32:07.969
And um, in the beginning, I was asking a little bit more of her than I probably should have, knowing how she operates because she's not structured.
00:32:08.129 --> 00:32:14.609
And so I've been using um the insight guide to ask questions about her and my relationship professionally.
00:32:14.769 --> 00:32:25.729
Like I have a whole overlay just dedicated to her and I working together on sheer stuff in that context because we are very different in a working environment together than we are when we travel together.
00:32:25.889 --> 00:32:27.329
We're not loosey goosey.
00:32:27.409 --> 00:32:32.209
I have like I'm more challenging in my role as a founder than I am in my role as a travel companion.
00:32:32.289 --> 00:32:34.049
I'm super loose.
00:32:34.929 --> 00:32:37.729
I'm super harmonizing when I travel when I travel.
00:32:38.049 --> 00:32:45.249
But um, I'm a little bit more challenging in a role where where there's something at stake and I really need something to happen.
00:32:45.409 --> 00:32:47.329
I'll push, I'll push a little harder, right?
00:32:47.489 --> 00:32:49.089
Um and she's more harmonizing than I am.
00:32:49.169 --> 00:32:51.489
So I've been actually using the insight guide a lot to solve problems.
00:32:51.569 --> 00:32:54.929
I'll put an email in there and be like, hey, this is what I want to say to Melissa.
00:32:55.249 --> 00:32:57.889
What should I say so that she'll hear me and not get defensive?
00:32:58.049 --> 00:33:05.809
And it'll, you know, spit back something at me and then, you know, and then I I edit that to match my voice, and then I put it back in and say, update your instructions.
00:33:05.969 --> 00:33:07.089
This is how I talk.
00:33:08.209 --> 00:33:15.169
But but you know, preserving the relationship, we get to the solution faster because neither one of us is secretly feeling any resentment.
00:33:15.489 --> 00:33:16.529
Yeah, yeah.
00:33:16.769 --> 00:33:17.089
Okay.
00:33:17.249 --> 00:33:17.969
Well, I love it.
00:33:18.049 --> 00:33:20.849
Everyone listening should go take the sheer assessment.
00:33:20.929 --> 00:33:22.929
I'm gonna link it in the show notes, obviously.
00:33:23.169 --> 00:33:31.809
I know you and I both do not really love social media, but is there anywhere people should go to hang out with you or just take the assessment, then they'll be in the loop.
00:33:31.889 --> 00:33:32.689
Or what do you want them to do?
00:33:32.929 --> 00:33:38.449
Yeah, I mean, the sh the sheerpersonality.com s-h-e-e-r is is where you can start taking the test.
00:33:38.529 --> 00:33:43.969
And we're on LinkedIn and I'm on LinkedIn and I'm on Instagram too, but mostly personally.
00:33:44.209 --> 00:33:44.369
Yeah.
00:33:44.529 --> 00:33:46.449
I'm I'm more of a lurker these days.
00:33:46.689 --> 00:33:47.329
I love it.
00:33:47.569 --> 00:33:48.049
All right.
00:33:48.209 --> 00:33:50.129
Well, I uh thank you so much for being here.
00:33:50.289 --> 00:33:52.769
This was so fun, and I'll talk to you soon.
00:33:53.009 --> 00:33:53.649
Bye.
