Kathy: Welcome to all about dog. We have learned a whole lot. Haven't we Julia?
Julia: Oh yes alot more than I thought I could.
Kathy: It is a very complicated, complicated decision to add another family member. I mean, I never knew there was so much know about rescues, so much know about breeders.
Julia: It's, it's pretty, I didn't realize half the stuff that they do in their jobs you know to just even find out which type of dogs they bring in, how they bring in the cats, how they bring in…maybe even not even dogs or cats, you know, in the rescue we learned that they find hamsters. You know what I mean, it's just crazy to learn all this stuff that that these places do and kind of what some of these breeders do. And it's their full-time job you know; I mean, I'm nervous about adding one dog to my family but you know they get those big litters so they have to raise so it's crazy and, you know, I think the one thing that I really want to bring out the most is, is the training aspect of things now you know,
Kathy: right now we're gonna, because the breed will help depend on determine what kind of training it needs right?
Julia: right, right exactly! That's the other thing that we haven't even dove into yet is the breed. You know that's a whole other animal you just decide okay you want to you want to get a dog or a cat now you got to find what breed.
Kathy: That's right. So, we're really, really blessed today to have Judy Wilson with us. She is with the Lawrenceville Kennel Club, and she is…she's very, very qualified to talk about training. She'll give us her bio in a minute but I just want to say, I think it's gonna be another one of those episodes where we learn a whole lot. What do you think?
Julia: So, I'm not gonna say I think I'm gonna say I know, because you know, again, I could use the help in this side of things, even with my own animals so I'm ready to dive in and see where we see where it takes us.
Kathy: There you go. Well, with that, I'd like to welcome Judy Wilson. So, Judy so glad you're here with us today, would you please tell us a bit about yourself. All right, well
Judy: All right, well I'm glad to be here Kathy; thanks for asking me. I am a certified professional dog trainer. I have been a KC Canine Good Citizen evaluator. So, when I was in a KC temperament test evaluator. I am a member of the Lawrenceville Kennel Club where I am the puppy class instructor. That's part of their training program. I'm also a member of the Shetland sheep dog club of Georgia and a supporter of Shelty rescue of Georgia. I'm currently in Lawrenceville, I have a two shelties currently and four cats… all kinds of animals
Kathy: That's pretty cool. So, the reason why we wanted you on today was because the topic we're discussing today is training. A lot of people feel like they just get the dog and, you know, in the old days we just put them outside and back on a chain and let them hang outside. We've luckily come to know that that's not the best thing to do with them. So, now, training has become an important thing. But, but why?
Judy: Okay, well it's important because training encompasses the entire behavior of the dog. The dogs are brought into our families are expected to become a companion to us. So, they have to learn how to do that. Training sometimes we put it as a very specific task like shaking hands or learning tricks. But training is about the whole behavior like potty training, where to go, how to tell you know how to tell the human that they have to go, where to eat all of those things are part of the training. So, it is about teaching that as part of the whole family unit behavior. Things like riding in a car, we are going to take our dogs places but that is something we have to teach and train the dog to do; not every dog is comfortable riding the car, but there are training techniques that teach that teach the dog how to behave in our family unit. The training also applies to both humans and dogs. Humans have to learn to speak out. We have to learn to read and interpret what the dog is trying to tell us, as well as we are teaching the dog what we want the behaviors that we're expecting as our companion.
Kathy: Julia, do you have any questions off the top of your head to begin?
Julia: Listening to the train your dog in the car side of things because you know my dogs they don't necessarily misbehave in the car but they're…my German Shepherd is not the best car writer and there's something about the car that gives them, anxiety, and he just, I have to put them in the trunk of my big car and let him just have his own face back there because if not, he will literally try to climb in my lap so I'm very, very interested to hear this conversation.
Judy: Excellent, absolutely, I mean something like that you have to identify the issue. And you said anxiety. Well, is that anxiety because they're in a moving vehicle maybe that because that movement is not something that is familiar or comfortable, or is it anxiety simply being separated from you. Right, so there's conditioning techniques training techniques that you that you use to try to teach, not to be anxious that this is a this is a normal part of its environment is riding in the car.
Julia: Yeah, that's very, very true and you know part of it too is, I think, you know we got him as a rescue and it brings it back to that side where we don't really know what he went through and, and why the car makes him so nervous and maybe it has something to do with that and you know so it'll be interesting to see how we can help overcome some of those things because he's, he really is the best dog out in the public. He loves being out but the process of getting him out, is just so overwhelming for him that we hate to bring in places because we feel like we're doing almost too much, you know, stress on him, then making it an enjoyable experience.
Judy: Absolutely.
Kathy: So that brings up a good question. She got him as a rescue, he obviously was a puppy. Is there a better age to start training or obviously when you get them as a rescue? They're that age, but…
Judy: well, the earliest you can start training the better. Part of training is socialization and when we use that word sometimes we don't define it well but really socialization, is the exposure to sights, sounds, smells, touch people anything that is within the adults environment. So, socialization at a very, very, very early age is important. When you get a pup from reputable breeder, the breeders will usually start that process from day one, handling the puppies. Giving sounds; giving playtime. All of these things that help to do that forever early socialization. Of course, when we get an adult dog, we don't know what kind of socialization went on, we don't know what that environment, what was learned from that environment so it is difficult to tell. But again, we start training immediately on that trying to identify what the dog has learned, and then trying to figure out what we need to do to retrain that response.
Julia: That's interesting that you say that too with with starting feeding from day one because I even think I had the misconception of, there is, there is a thing called too early to train your dog, meaning they're just, you know, they're puppies, they don't understand they're trying to figure out where they're at, so that's pretty interesting to hear that breeders and, you know, trainers start training their dogs from very, very young ages because I mean I don't know about you, Kathy but how many times we get people that come in and tell us, oh well they're just a puppy we haven't started training yet and we're just like oh I understand, but if you really should I didn't even think about the training part being the socialization is a huge, huge milestone in a dog's life to becoming. You know the “perfect companion.”
Judy: Absolutely! The dogs are always learning from all of their senses, right, so as a puppy you're born with that sense of smell. And then, as those senses develop as their eyes open as their hearing develops better as they start to explore what they are encountering right there is part of that socialization. I have two friends right now that have litters of puppies, that they're working with it just, you know, a few weeks old, the puppies are now, big enough to leave the whelping box from their mother and now they're in a playpen and that playpen has been set up with all sorts of toys about textures and types and sounds and all that does is helped you to give more context to that puppy squirrel and then once that puppy is old enough to actually go to a new home. It's not surprised by the sound of a bell because they've heard tinkling noises in in their play pubs or in their little play areas. So, all of that is very important. If we, there are some things that you don't train a dog early to do if you're going to do sports or running or frisbee or anything like that you have to physically let the dog develop. You can you can harm the dog's muscles and joints if you start too early on certain types of training, but basic home manners basic behavior training like that, it is never too early to start.
Julia: Yeah, that's interesting because it's really, really interesting. N let me ask you another question that I've heard from people before. The dog is not trainable now, is that something that's actual, and I know it's so funny but when it comes to, let's just say you know temperament and some dogs are born with a certain temperament. Is that something that you actually think is the case or is that something where all dogs are trainable depending on age and circumstance and you know kind of what they've been through? I've always wondered -- is it, is it true that there really are dogs that are just not trainable?
Judy: Well, it may be in the sense of what we want to train and I think all dogs are trainable is there are some that that will never learn certain things, just because of whatever reason. One of my shelties right now, will not hold something in its mouth, so I can't continue with the obedience training. I have not been successful so far to find the right reward for the dog to hold a dumbbell in its mouth, and it doesn't hold anything. I can give it anything and it does not like holding something. So, we, we have changed that we're not going to be training that obedience - we've gotten to something else. So, I don't think I don't think a dog will never learn something, but I do think, just like people. Some dogs just won't learn certain things. I can't learn to knit as hard as I try, you know I wanted it, but I can't do it; it doesn't click, in my brain. And I think the same thing with the dogs - there's certain tasks or certain things we ask that just doesn't click for them and they're not going to learn it well. And if we insist that that is the only thing they can learn, or we do that unlearnable, then that's not quite fair. I just, it's just like people some people learn certain things, some people do not. And it's just the way that that their brain operates.
Kathy: So it doesn't have to do with breed per se, but more about the personality of the dog.
Judy: Absolutely. Of course you have breeds that learn very, very quickly. You have other breeds that learn more slowly. I believe just the, the instincts. The brain itself, whatever their natural instincts are, is going to determine a bit on what they learned well and what how much that they can learn. Border Collies, for example, you can get Border Collies with their repertoire of learning, up to their very high standard. You might not take a bloodhound up to that level of a border collie, but you certainly are not going to get the border collie down to the level of a bloodhound that could sniff and track. So, I think the breed itself kind of determines what it's best capable of doing. And I think we need to encompass that in whatever decision of the doubt that we have, we need to encompass what they can naturally do well and then work that into our daily routine as part of what we do wellness and also
Julia: Yeah, you know, that's a really good point. I think so many times people want to get their dream dog and they're in they know they have this, this thing in their mind that their dream dog is going to be, you know, Air Bud and be able to catch frisbees or go and hunt and they just don't have to right up for it. And I didn't even think about that to be you gotta have the right dog for the right situation is, you know, my Bulldog probably isn't going to want to go in and, you know, she wants to kind of hang out and do nothing. So, that's a good point we understand what type of dog you're going to get, and what type of dog do you want to introduce into the lifestyle.
Judy: Now, basic good manners, things like, you know, being calm on a leash and meeting strangers, those basic good manners, any dog can learn. Any dog can learn to, to be a good house companion. But I think it's when we get to those very specific things is where we find the differences in the breed. I think any breed can become a good companion in good manners.
Kathy: So, that brings up my question about good citizen. What, what does that mean and can any dog be a good citizen?
Judy: Absolutely any dog can be a good citizen. The Canine Good Citizen program is an AKC program that offers titling and certification, so that you can actually get certificates and awards for that but the basic techniques of Canine Good Citizen any and every dog should be able to do. The Canine Good Citizen tasks are very, very simple tasks that we need to have our dogs do every day. Calmly accepting petting -your dog needs to stay in calmly when someone walks up and perhaps that's part of the good citizen, your dog should be able to sit when you ask it to sit. It should be able to go into a down position when you ask it. Your dog should be able to walk beside you, and turn and stop when you do so. Those are all the things that are part of the Canine Good Citizen test, and all of those things are what we should expect our dogs to do in the environments that we put them in and that is part of being. Being a calm, you know, a calm dog so you can take that down anywhere.
Kathy: Cool. Is there a place that we can go get more information about that?
Judy: Absolutely. Akc.org has the information about all of the Canine Good Citizen programs. There are levels from the start puppy which is part of that program. You also have Canine Good Citizen advanced Urban, it's an urban, all of those, putting your dogs in just everyday situation, an urban canine versus an urban ask your dog to be able to walk along the sidewalk beside a busy street, things like that. So akc.org has all of that information about programs. It also includes different facilities that are offering the test as well as a list of CGC evaluators.
Kathy: Very cool. So, how do we go about finding a good trainer? I mean what is it we're looking for? It seems to be a lot of, like PetSmart and, you know, anybody says they can be a trainer. What do we do about this?
Judy: Well, first of all you have to decide your training plan, just like anything else this is one of those things that you have to think about before you get your dog. What exactly do you want that dog to do. Do you want that dog to be the next agility 10, agility national champion if so you're going to go through lots and lots and lots of days and weeks of training? You want your dog just to be able to go to the park with you and be a nice calm dog? So, once you've kind of decided what you want to train, then of course, you're going to start looking for that type. Akc.org again has information regarding a lot of the local kennel clubs; the local places that do offer training and classes, depending on where you are. When and depending on how, how many choices that you might have. Here in the Lawrenceville area, of course, there's probably a number of choices. Sometimes you get a little further out, you do have to drive aways to find a good source. But once you have a list of folks that you want to consider, then please check them out without the dog. Ask for tours; ask to observe a class with a trainer. All of those things are very important because you need to be able to know that your dog is in a safe environment; that you're in a safe environment to learn and ask questions. Not only akc.org. You also can check with your vets. Vet offices usually have contacts with various trainers or various local organizations that can offer that training. You're right - there's a number of choices out there, I think, again, it kind of comes back to the individual person. If you've got a puppy there's lots and lots of choices and you certainly have a little bit easier time possibly training your puppy because it's still young, it's still, you know, very eager to learn. You may have to be a lot more selective in your training choices if you're taking on an older dog, where you need a little bit more distinct training to try to determine what obstacles she may have to overcome in order to continue training with that dog. Of course, you want to be sure that you are exploring both group class options as well as private trainer options. I do advocate that everyone be part of great training because it gives you a good support group a lot of classes have experienced and non-experienced participants in them. So, we can all learn from each other. I really truly like a very diverse class when we're doing a group classes, it because there's a lot of information sharing a lot of things we can learn a lot of techniques or tricks, everybody that's trained to have a few tricks that you always go to and then every now and then you have to come up with something new, because each one of them will train a little different.
Kathy: And I imagine it's the support too for the parents because they come back and they've tried to get the dog, their dog to do some work over the weekend. They just can't get it to do it again and they feel really dumb, but they couldn't get the pup to do it again. But they're probably not the only ones in the class, who are feeling that way.
Judy: Absolutely. In our puppy class, the first thing that we always say is the, the ones, trying to trick test. Is that your patients want to be tested here and yeah that's true we come in and some of the folks are like, Oh, it's been a rough week and then it's, it's a time in a group where you can you can relax and know that you know we're not judging the behavior. We are, we are observing; we're offering you suggestions and in trying our best to figure a way that you and that dog is going to be the happiest and so it's a great support I think in a group class.
Kathy: Excellent, excellent. I have just one more thought. We've had a couple of people ask about sending their dog to camp for a two week camp, which doesn't feel like it's the right answer because as we've talked about already, the parents have to be part of the training. So, I mean, it would be like you sending your kid to camp for two weeks and you expect them to be perfect, like a boarding school, coming back. What do you think about situations like that?
Judy: Well, absolutely you're right in that it does kind of weird if you send them away and they come back perfect. I do believe you and your dog have got to be together in the training. You have to learn to speak out. You have to learn your dog, what their body language is telling you; what they're communicating; the bond that you're creating with that dog, you have to be an active participant in it. The best training, I believe, occurs between you and the dog in a class together. Now, boarding facilities, there, there is certainly a use for them. If you have a dog that, maybe say you get an adult dog that has come out of a very bad environment that may have some issues, a camp situation that will give that dog, a brand new environment to settle into, might be the answer because it takes them away and allows them to, to kind of shed that old environment, be trained and work in a safe environment and then go on to something new. So, the boarding training situation is certainly beneficial to some dogs. But I do think, unless you can absolutely duplicate that boarding situation, a dog that's trained in a way from you is going to learn something different than what they are learning with you.
Kathy: That makes sense because you and the dog working together. And if you don't learn that bond, it would be, I think, a waste of somebody's time for sure.
Judy: Absolutely, like we said in the beginning, training is about the entire behavior of the dog. If we're encompassing that entire behavior. We have to be part of that entire behavior. I also am very hesitant about my dog being away from my supervision. So, if you are choosing a boarding facility, if you're choosing a boarding and training facility, please research it very, very carefully. Be sure to ask to audit some of the training sessions. Be very informed when you make that decision of where to send your dog, because again, you want to ensure your dog's safety, and you want to ensure that your dog is being cared for in the best possible light.
Julia: Being trained in the mode that you have decided is best for your family, right? And Kathy, that brings me to a question, Judy, what's your suggestion for people that have issues with dogs not necessarily, you know, outside of the home but inside of the home? So for example, rushing the door when somebody comes to the door or barking when the doorbell rings and stuff like that. Is there a recommendation or a certain type of training that you would offer to somebody who has that type of issue? Is it an in-house training something that's better than going somewhere and trying to learn? What are your thoughts on that?
Judy: Well, there, there are benefits to both. On in-home training, if you're going to seek a private trainer for some in home training, I think it's beneficial in a group setting. As far as rushing the door, I'll speak to that in our class, one of the things that we teach is door control. So, you take your dog and approach the door, you put them in a sit. You open the door and you wait. And then you step through the door. So, if you teach that and continually reinforced it in teaching that, what you will find is that you can open the door and the dog will not rush the door. So, if you start teaching that technique, and you are consistent in how you teach that technique, you will eventually find your dog not rushing the door. So, if a dog has been allowed to rush the door for so long, that it's learned that rushing the door is okay, then it's going to take some time to scale that back and teach that door control. So, the item that we teach, both in a group class and can be applied in an individual trainer, so that if you still have an issue with that and you get a private trainer. If I'm consulted on that and I'm your private trainer, the first thing I'm going to start teaching you, is that door control, that very same thing that we teach in a group class. we're going to work teaching that door control as an individual.
Kathy: So, again, it goes back to the parent being fully aware of the needs and the strengths of their dog, and the family environment and all of that to make it the best happiest environment for everybody.
Judy: Absolutely. Your dog is continually learning. I mean sometimes they learn lessons that we don't actively teach. So if we, if we ignore something long enough, the dog learns it's okay to do so. So, yeah, sometimes our training has been inadvertently and not necessarily what we sought to train. So, we have to be very mindful of that.
Julia: Yeah, guilty. I'll just go ahead and say it right now - guilty. Oh, there's things that I'm guilty of because it's my dog, my house, I allow it to happen here. Yeah. My issue is I have three, you know. When I had one dog, she never rushed the door. When I got two dogs; then I got three. Yeah, now it's a problem so I'm going to ask these questions and tell myself that I'm not asking them about my own dogs but we all know I will probably
Judy: If you could take a tape recording and rewind it to every action that was placed with each dog being added, you will likely find that at some point one dog instigated the other, and it wasn't caught quick enough to bring them both back, so now it's gonna take a little time but again it's, it just takes time of working with it to keep format and consistency. Training is about consistency if we don't do it all the time. we're not going to be successful.
Kathy: Thanks, Judy. Anything else that you'd like us to know?
Judy: It's just that every dog needs to be trained and every trainer, every owner needs to have an open mind and be very educated on everything that's out there. There are different techniques for different issues for different dogs for different people. I mean, so we just want to be open minded to be informed. Not every trainer has all of the answers. And if a trainer tells you they do, I would probably find yourself another trainer. I don't have all the answers. Okay, no single trainer does we have answers for that, we have good answers for most situations, but there will always be something that we will refer you to someone else who has more knowledge. So, information is key; keep an open mind; keep yourself informed and be consistent in whatever it is that you're trying to do with your dog.
Kathy: Excellent, excellent. This has been really interesting and very enlightening. I was looking at your bio and I find it interesting that you were petrified of dogs to begin with and now here you are, which is kind of the way I was! I've been bitten by dogs as a kid and didn't like dogs at all until the right one came into my life and now here we are.
Judy: Absolutely, I was absolutely petrified and never really exactly knew why. I just remember as a child I was always hysterical. So, shelties, Shetland sheepdogs was what I was introduced to get over my fear. I’ve loved them ever since. A lot of breeds out there; they're just darlin very much. Foster mixed breeds as well and they're just as darlin, but really information is key, and in learning - learning genetics, learning training, learning history. Basic canine behavior, it's all about the information and the more you know, the better you are at being that responsible owner that you need to be.
Kathy: Excellent. Do you have any other questions for Judy?
Julia: Not right now but, Judy, I'm sure we will be in touch in the future and again I'll ask all these questions in a hypothetical tone and just act like you believe me
Judy: My door is open to you. Yeah, you can reach out to me. We'll certainly set up some training sessions for you and if you need it or if you have a friend and he told me I needed..
Julia: we all needed it. Gonna be a challenge.
Kathy: Well, thank you so much, Judy.
Sponsor Jingle:
Kathy: Thanks to Camp Bow Wow Lawrenceville for being our sponsor for this episode again and thanks to Judy Wilson for joining us. What did you think about all of that Julia?
Julia: Well it was exactly what I needed and then some and I'm sure our listeners are sitting here thinking, you know, don't get another dog, your dogs are terrible don't do it. But now that I've got Judy, I'm telling you I'm going to be that fly that just never leaves her alone. That was everything I needed and then some.
Kathy: She may be regretting.
Julia: Exactly, exactly. She's just gonna be horrified you know she did say though, come by and see me. I'm gonna hold her to it.
Kathy: Yes, she did. In fact, she does offer private training through Misty Blue Obedience Training so you need to remember that name, Misty Blue Obedience Training Julia. So, have you gotten any closer to what kind of family member you're going to add?
Julia: Yeah, I think I have I think I am going to get another dog. I think that it would make sense for us right now especially talking to Judy and learning, you know. I think that the pressure that I put on myself was I know I have some work to do with the three I have. Everybody does, you know. It's a constant battle every day you've got to make your dogs better every day and stick to it. But, Judy helped put some ease into me and said, you know, work on one at a time. That's how you train multiple animals, it's not all together and I think with her help, me adding on a new dog to my family, and having her help me with the training that I can do this and it's something I want to do. Now, one thing I'm still not sure of is the breed. I think we're gonna need to dive deeper and really explore some of these breeds that are out there because you know as you heard Judy mentioned. Every dog is “trainable”; it's just every dog has a different personality. Right?
Kathy: Right. So that leads us into the probably the next two episodes of this podcast, are the different breeds. We plan to talk about the top 10 AKC breeds, and then bring in less AKC, more everyday breeds, like doodles some very popular breeds like that who aren't in the top 10 for the AKC but I'm excited about that. I love doing research about stuff so that'll be fun.
Julia: Me too, me too.
Kathy: So great! I appreciate you being with us, Judy and Julia. This is Kathy Stone.
Julia: and I am Julia Elliot. And we are all about all about dog. See you next time.
Kathy: Bye guys,
Julia: Bye.
Julia: Oh yes alot more than I thought I could.
Kathy: It is a very complicated, complicated decision to add another family member. I mean, I never knew there was so much know about rescues, so much know about breeders.
Julia: It's, it's pretty, I didn't realize half the stuff that they do in their jobs you know to just even find out which type of dogs they bring in, how they bring in the cats, how they bring in…maybe even not even dogs or cats, you know, in the rescue we learned that they find hamsters. You know what I mean, it's just crazy to learn all this stuff that that these places do and kind of what some of these breeders do. And it's their full-time job you know; I mean, I'm nervous about adding one dog to my family but you know they get those big litters so they have to raise so it's crazy and, you know, I think the one thing that I really want to bring out the most is, is the training aspect of things now you know,
Kathy: right now we're gonna, because the breed will help depend on determine what kind of training it needs right?
Julia: right, right exactly! That's the other thing that we haven't even dove into yet is the breed. You know that's a whole other animal you just decide okay you want to you want to get a dog or a cat now you got to find what breed.
Kathy: That's right. So, we're really, really blessed today to have Judy Wilson with us. She is with the Lawrenceville Kennel Club, and she is…she's very, very qualified to talk about training. She'll give us her bio in a minute but I just want to say, I think it's gonna be another one of those episodes where we learn a whole lot. What do you think?
Julia: So, I'm not gonna say I think I'm gonna say I know, because you know, again, I could use the help in this side of things, even with my own animals so I'm ready to dive in and see where we see where it takes us.
Kathy: There you go. Well, with that, I'd like to welcome Judy Wilson. So, Judy so glad you're here with us today, would you please tell us a bit about yourself. All right, well
Judy: All right, well I'm glad to be here Kathy; thanks for asking me. I am a certified professional dog trainer. I have been a KC Canine Good Citizen evaluator. So, when I was in a KC temperament test evaluator. I am a member of the Lawrenceville Kennel Club where I am the puppy class instructor. That's part of their training program. I'm also a member of the Shetland sheep dog club of Georgia and a supporter of Shelty rescue of Georgia. I'm currently in Lawrenceville, I have a two shelties currently and four cats… all kinds of animals
Kathy: That's pretty cool. So, the reason why we wanted you on today was because the topic we're discussing today is training. A lot of people feel like they just get the dog and, you know, in the old days we just put them outside and back on a chain and let them hang outside. We've luckily come to know that that's not the best thing to do with them. So, now, training has become an important thing. But, but why?
Judy: Okay, well it's important because training encompasses the entire behavior of the dog. The dogs are brought into our families are expected to become a companion to us. So, they have to learn how to do that. Training sometimes we put it as a very specific task like shaking hands or learning tricks. But training is about the whole behavior like potty training, where to go, how to tell you know how to tell the human that they have to go, where to eat all of those things are part of the training. So, it is about teaching that as part of the whole family unit behavior. Things like riding in a car, we are going to take our dogs places but that is something we have to teach and train the dog to do; not every dog is comfortable riding the car, but there are training techniques that teach that teach the dog how to behave in our family unit. The training also applies to both humans and dogs. Humans have to learn to speak out. We have to learn to read and interpret what the dog is trying to tell us, as well as we are teaching the dog what we want the behaviors that we're expecting as our companion.
Kathy: Julia, do you have any questions off the top of your head to begin?
Julia: Listening to the train your dog in the car side of things because you know my dogs they don't necessarily misbehave in the car but they're…my German Shepherd is not the best car writer and there's something about the car that gives them, anxiety, and he just, I have to put them in the trunk of my big car and let him just have his own face back there because if not, he will literally try to climb in my lap so I'm very, very interested to hear this conversation.
Judy: Excellent, absolutely, I mean something like that you have to identify the issue. And you said anxiety. Well, is that anxiety because they're in a moving vehicle maybe that because that movement is not something that is familiar or comfortable, or is it anxiety simply being separated from you. Right, so there's conditioning techniques training techniques that you that you use to try to teach, not to be anxious that this is a this is a normal part of its environment is riding in the car.
Julia: Yeah, that's very, very true and you know part of it too is, I think, you know we got him as a rescue and it brings it back to that side where we don't really know what he went through and, and why the car makes him so nervous and maybe it has something to do with that and you know so it'll be interesting to see how we can help overcome some of those things because he's, he really is the best dog out in the public. He loves being out but the process of getting him out, is just so overwhelming for him that we hate to bring in places because we feel like we're doing almost too much, you know, stress on him, then making it an enjoyable experience.
Judy: Absolutely.
Kathy: So that brings up a good question. She got him as a rescue, he obviously was a puppy. Is there a better age to start training or obviously when you get them as a rescue? They're that age, but…
Judy: well, the earliest you can start training the better. Part of training is socialization and when we use that word sometimes we don't define it well but really socialization, is the exposure to sights, sounds, smells, touch people anything that is within the adults environment. So, socialization at a very, very, very early age is important. When you get a pup from reputable breeder, the breeders will usually start that process from day one, handling the puppies. Giving sounds; giving playtime. All of these things that help to do that forever early socialization. Of course, when we get an adult dog, we don't know what kind of socialization went on, we don't know what that environment, what was learned from that environment so it is difficult to tell. But again, we start training immediately on that trying to identify what the dog has learned, and then trying to figure out what we need to do to retrain that response.
Julia: That's interesting that you say that too with with starting feeding from day one because I even think I had the misconception of, there is, there is a thing called too early to train your dog, meaning they're just, you know, they're puppies, they don't understand they're trying to figure out where they're at, so that's pretty interesting to hear that breeders and, you know, trainers start training their dogs from very, very young ages because I mean I don't know about you, Kathy but how many times we get people that come in and tell us, oh well they're just a puppy we haven't started training yet and we're just like oh I understand, but if you really should I didn't even think about the training part being the socialization is a huge, huge milestone in a dog's life to becoming. You know the “perfect companion.”
Judy: Absolutely! The dogs are always learning from all of their senses, right, so as a puppy you're born with that sense of smell. And then, as those senses develop as their eyes open as their hearing develops better as they start to explore what they are encountering right there is part of that socialization. I have two friends right now that have litters of puppies, that they're working with it just, you know, a few weeks old, the puppies are now, big enough to leave the whelping box from their mother and now they're in a playpen and that playpen has been set up with all sorts of toys about textures and types and sounds and all that does is helped you to give more context to that puppy squirrel and then once that puppy is old enough to actually go to a new home. It's not surprised by the sound of a bell because they've heard tinkling noises in in their play pubs or in their little play areas. So, all of that is very important. If we, there are some things that you don't train a dog early to do if you're going to do sports or running or frisbee or anything like that you have to physically let the dog develop. You can you can harm the dog's muscles and joints if you start too early on certain types of training, but basic home manners basic behavior training like that, it is never too early to start.
Julia: Yeah, that's interesting because it's really, really interesting. N let me ask you another question that I've heard from people before. The dog is not trainable now, is that something that's actual, and I know it's so funny but when it comes to, let's just say you know temperament and some dogs are born with a certain temperament. Is that something that you actually think is the case or is that something where all dogs are trainable depending on age and circumstance and you know kind of what they've been through? I've always wondered -- is it, is it true that there really are dogs that are just not trainable?
Judy: Well, it may be in the sense of what we want to train and I think all dogs are trainable is there are some that that will never learn certain things, just because of whatever reason. One of my shelties right now, will not hold something in its mouth, so I can't continue with the obedience training. I have not been successful so far to find the right reward for the dog to hold a dumbbell in its mouth, and it doesn't hold anything. I can give it anything and it does not like holding something. So, we, we have changed that we're not going to be training that obedience - we've gotten to something else. So, I don't think I don't think a dog will never learn something, but I do think, just like people. Some dogs just won't learn certain things. I can't learn to knit as hard as I try, you know I wanted it, but I can't do it; it doesn't click, in my brain. And I think the same thing with the dogs - there's certain tasks or certain things we ask that just doesn't click for them and they're not going to learn it well. And if we insist that that is the only thing they can learn, or we do that unlearnable, then that's not quite fair. I just, it's just like people some people learn certain things, some people do not. And it's just the way that that their brain operates.
Kathy: So it doesn't have to do with breed per se, but more about the personality of the dog.
Judy: Absolutely. Of course you have breeds that learn very, very quickly. You have other breeds that learn more slowly. I believe just the, the instincts. The brain itself, whatever their natural instincts are, is going to determine a bit on what they learned well and what how much that they can learn. Border Collies, for example, you can get Border Collies with their repertoire of learning, up to their very high standard. You might not take a bloodhound up to that level of a border collie, but you certainly are not going to get the border collie down to the level of a bloodhound that could sniff and track. So, I think the breed itself kind of determines what it's best capable of doing. And I think we need to encompass that in whatever decision of the doubt that we have, we need to encompass what they can naturally do well and then work that into our daily routine as part of what we do wellness and also
Julia: Yeah, you know, that's a really good point. I think so many times people want to get their dream dog and they're in they know they have this, this thing in their mind that their dream dog is going to be, you know, Air Bud and be able to catch frisbees or go and hunt and they just don't have to right up for it. And I didn't even think about that to be you gotta have the right dog for the right situation is, you know, my Bulldog probably isn't going to want to go in and, you know, she wants to kind of hang out and do nothing. So, that's a good point we understand what type of dog you're going to get, and what type of dog do you want to introduce into the lifestyle.
Judy: Now, basic good manners, things like, you know, being calm on a leash and meeting strangers, those basic good manners, any dog can learn. Any dog can learn to, to be a good house companion. But I think it's when we get to those very specific things is where we find the differences in the breed. I think any breed can become a good companion in good manners.
Kathy: So, that brings up my question about good citizen. What, what does that mean and can any dog be a good citizen?
Judy: Absolutely any dog can be a good citizen. The Canine Good Citizen program is an AKC program that offers titling and certification, so that you can actually get certificates and awards for that but the basic techniques of Canine Good Citizen any and every dog should be able to do. The Canine Good Citizen tasks are very, very simple tasks that we need to have our dogs do every day. Calmly accepting petting -your dog needs to stay in calmly when someone walks up and perhaps that's part of the good citizen, your dog should be able to sit when you ask it to sit. It should be able to go into a down position when you ask it. Your dog should be able to walk beside you, and turn and stop when you do so. Those are all the things that are part of the Canine Good Citizen test, and all of those things are what we should expect our dogs to do in the environments that we put them in and that is part of being. Being a calm, you know, a calm dog so you can take that down anywhere.
Kathy: Cool. Is there a place that we can go get more information about that?
Judy: Absolutely. Akc.org has the information about all of the Canine Good Citizen programs. There are levels from the start puppy which is part of that program. You also have Canine Good Citizen advanced Urban, it's an urban, all of those, putting your dogs in just everyday situation, an urban canine versus an urban ask your dog to be able to walk along the sidewalk beside a busy street, things like that. So akc.org has all of that information about programs. It also includes different facilities that are offering the test as well as a list of CGC evaluators.
Kathy: Very cool. So, how do we go about finding a good trainer? I mean what is it we're looking for? It seems to be a lot of, like PetSmart and, you know, anybody says they can be a trainer. What do we do about this?
Judy: Well, first of all you have to decide your training plan, just like anything else this is one of those things that you have to think about before you get your dog. What exactly do you want that dog to do. Do you want that dog to be the next agility 10, agility national champion if so you're going to go through lots and lots and lots of days and weeks of training? You want your dog just to be able to go to the park with you and be a nice calm dog? So, once you've kind of decided what you want to train, then of course, you're going to start looking for that type. Akc.org again has information regarding a lot of the local kennel clubs; the local places that do offer training and classes, depending on where you are. When and depending on how, how many choices that you might have. Here in the Lawrenceville area, of course, there's probably a number of choices. Sometimes you get a little further out, you do have to drive aways to find a good source. But once you have a list of folks that you want to consider, then please check them out without the dog. Ask for tours; ask to observe a class with a trainer. All of those things are very important because you need to be able to know that your dog is in a safe environment; that you're in a safe environment to learn and ask questions. Not only akc.org. You also can check with your vets. Vet offices usually have contacts with various trainers or various local organizations that can offer that training. You're right - there's a number of choices out there, I think, again, it kind of comes back to the individual person. If you've got a puppy there's lots and lots of choices and you certainly have a little bit easier time possibly training your puppy because it's still young, it's still, you know, very eager to learn. You may have to be a lot more selective in your training choices if you're taking on an older dog, where you need a little bit more distinct training to try to determine what obstacles she may have to overcome in order to continue training with that dog. Of course, you want to be sure that you are exploring both group class options as well as private trainer options. I do advocate that everyone be part of great training because it gives you a good support group a lot of classes have experienced and non-experienced participants in them. So, we can all learn from each other. I really truly like a very diverse class when we're doing a group classes, it because there's a lot of information sharing a lot of things we can learn a lot of techniques or tricks, everybody that's trained to have a few tricks that you always go to and then every now and then you have to come up with something new, because each one of them will train a little different.
Kathy: And I imagine it's the support too for the parents because they come back and they've tried to get the dog, their dog to do some work over the weekend. They just can't get it to do it again and they feel really dumb, but they couldn't get the pup to do it again. But they're probably not the only ones in the class, who are feeling that way.
Judy: Absolutely. In our puppy class, the first thing that we always say is the, the ones, trying to trick test. Is that your patients want to be tested here and yeah that's true we come in and some of the folks are like, Oh, it's been a rough week and then it's, it's a time in a group where you can you can relax and know that you know we're not judging the behavior. We are, we are observing; we're offering you suggestions and in trying our best to figure a way that you and that dog is going to be the happiest and so it's a great support I think in a group class.
Kathy: Excellent, excellent. I have just one more thought. We've had a couple of people ask about sending their dog to camp for a two week camp, which doesn't feel like it's the right answer because as we've talked about already, the parents have to be part of the training. So, I mean, it would be like you sending your kid to camp for two weeks and you expect them to be perfect, like a boarding school, coming back. What do you think about situations like that?
Judy: Well, absolutely you're right in that it does kind of weird if you send them away and they come back perfect. I do believe you and your dog have got to be together in the training. You have to learn to speak out. You have to learn your dog, what their body language is telling you; what they're communicating; the bond that you're creating with that dog, you have to be an active participant in it. The best training, I believe, occurs between you and the dog in a class together. Now, boarding facilities, there, there is certainly a use for them. If you have a dog that, maybe say you get an adult dog that has come out of a very bad environment that may have some issues, a camp situation that will give that dog, a brand new environment to settle into, might be the answer because it takes them away and allows them to, to kind of shed that old environment, be trained and work in a safe environment and then go on to something new. So, the boarding training situation is certainly beneficial to some dogs. But I do think, unless you can absolutely duplicate that boarding situation, a dog that's trained in a way from you is going to learn something different than what they are learning with you.
Kathy: That makes sense because you and the dog working together. And if you don't learn that bond, it would be, I think, a waste of somebody's time for sure.
Judy: Absolutely, like we said in the beginning, training is about the entire behavior of the dog. If we're encompassing that entire behavior. We have to be part of that entire behavior. I also am very hesitant about my dog being away from my supervision. So, if you are choosing a boarding facility, if you're choosing a boarding and training facility, please research it very, very carefully. Be sure to ask to audit some of the training sessions. Be very informed when you make that decision of where to send your dog, because again, you want to ensure your dog's safety, and you want to ensure that your dog is being cared for in the best possible light.
Julia: Being trained in the mode that you have decided is best for your family, right? And Kathy, that brings me to a question, Judy, what's your suggestion for people that have issues with dogs not necessarily, you know, outside of the home but inside of the home? So for example, rushing the door when somebody comes to the door or barking when the doorbell rings and stuff like that. Is there a recommendation or a certain type of training that you would offer to somebody who has that type of issue? Is it an in-house training something that's better than going somewhere and trying to learn? What are your thoughts on that?
Judy: Well, there, there are benefits to both. On in-home training, if you're going to seek a private trainer for some in home training, I think it's beneficial in a group setting. As far as rushing the door, I'll speak to that in our class, one of the things that we teach is door control. So, you take your dog and approach the door, you put them in a sit. You open the door and you wait. And then you step through the door. So, if you teach that and continually reinforced it in teaching that, what you will find is that you can open the door and the dog will not rush the door. So, if you start teaching that technique, and you are consistent in how you teach that technique, you will eventually find your dog not rushing the door. So, if a dog has been allowed to rush the door for so long, that it's learned that rushing the door is okay, then it's going to take some time to scale that back and teach that door control. So, the item that we teach, both in a group class and can be applied in an individual trainer, so that if you still have an issue with that and you get a private trainer. If I'm consulted on that and I'm your private trainer, the first thing I'm going to start teaching you, is that door control, that very same thing that we teach in a group class. we're going to work teaching that door control as an individual.
Kathy: So, again, it goes back to the parent being fully aware of the needs and the strengths of their dog, and the family environment and all of that to make it the best happiest environment for everybody.
Judy: Absolutely. Your dog is continually learning. I mean sometimes they learn lessons that we don't actively teach. So if we, if we ignore something long enough, the dog learns it's okay to do so. So, yeah, sometimes our training has been inadvertently and not necessarily what we sought to train. So, we have to be very mindful of that.
Julia: Yeah, guilty. I'll just go ahead and say it right now - guilty. Oh, there's things that I'm guilty of because it's my dog, my house, I allow it to happen here. Yeah. My issue is I have three, you know. When I had one dog, she never rushed the door. When I got two dogs; then I got three. Yeah, now it's a problem so I'm going to ask these questions and tell myself that I'm not asking them about my own dogs but we all know I will probably
Judy: If you could take a tape recording and rewind it to every action that was placed with each dog being added, you will likely find that at some point one dog instigated the other, and it wasn't caught quick enough to bring them both back, so now it's gonna take a little time but again it's, it just takes time of working with it to keep format and consistency. Training is about consistency if we don't do it all the time. we're not going to be successful.
Kathy: Thanks, Judy. Anything else that you'd like us to know?
Judy: It's just that every dog needs to be trained and every trainer, every owner needs to have an open mind and be very educated on everything that's out there. There are different techniques for different issues for different dogs for different people. I mean, so we just want to be open minded to be informed. Not every trainer has all of the answers. And if a trainer tells you they do, I would probably find yourself another trainer. I don't have all the answers. Okay, no single trainer does we have answers for that, we have good answers for most situations, but there will always be something that we will refer you to someone else who has more knowledge. So, information is key; keep an open mind; keep yourself informed and be consistent in whatever it is that you're trying to do with your dog.
Kathy: Excellent, excellent. This has been really interesting and very enlightening. I was looking at your bio and I find it interesting that you were petrified of dogs to begin with and now here you are, which is kind of the way I was! I've been bitten by dogs as a kid and didn't like dogs at all until the right one came into my life and now here we are.
Judy: Absolutely, I was absolutely petrified and never really exactly knew why. I just remember as a child I was always hysterical. So, shelties, Shetland sheepdogs was what I was introduced to get over my fear. I’ve loved them ever since. A lot of breeds out there; they're just darlin very much. Foster mixed breeds as well and they're just as darlin, but really information is key, and in learning - learning genetics, learning training, learning history. Basic canine behavior, it's all about the information and the more you know, the better you are at being that responsible owner that you need to be.
Kathy: Excellent. Do you have any other questions for Judy?
Julia: Not right now but, Judy, I'm sure we will be in touch in the future and again I'll ask all these questions in a hypothetical tone and just act like you believe me
Judy: My door is open to you. Yeah, you can reach out to me. We'll certainly set up some training sessions for you and if you need it or if you have a friend and he told me I needed..
Julia: we all needed it. Gonna be a challenge.
Kathy: Well, thank you so much, Judy.
Sponsor Jingle:
Kathy: Thanks to Camp Bow Wow Lawrenceville for being our sponsor for this episode again and thanks to Judy Wilson for joining us. What did you think about all of that Julia?
Julia: Well it was exactly what I needed and then some and I'm sure our listeners are sitting here thinking, you know, don't get another dog, your dogs are terrible don't do it. But now that I've got Judy, I'm telling you I'm going to be that fly that just never leaves her alone. That was everything I needed and then some.
Kathy: She may be regretting.
Julia: Exactly, exactly. She's just gonna be horrified you know she did say though, come by and see me. I'm gonna hold her to it.
Kathy: Yes, she did. In fact, she does offer private training through Misty Blue Obedience Training so you need to remember that name, Misty Blue Obedience Training Julia. So, have you gotten any closer to what kind of family member you're going to add?
Julia: Yeah, I think I have I think I am going to get another dog. I think that it would make sense for us right now especially talking to Judy and learning, you know. I think that the pressure that I put on myself was I know I have some work to do with the three I have. Everybody does, you know. It's a constant battle every day you've got to make your dogs better every day and stick to it. But, Judy helped put some ease into me and said, you know, work on one at a time. That's how you train multiple animals, it's not all together and I think with her help, me adding on a new dog to my family, and having her help me with the training that I can do this and it's something I want to do. Now, one thing I'm still not sure of is the breed. I think we're gonna need to dive deeper and really explore some of these breeds that are out there because you know as you heard Judy mentioned. Every dog is “trainable”; it's just every dog has a different personality. Right?
Kathy: Right. So that leads us into the probably the next two episodes of this podcast, are the different breeds. We plan to talk about the top 10 AKC breeds, and then bring in less AKC, more everyday breeds, like doodles some very popular breeds like that who aren't in the top 10 for the AKC but I'm excited about that. I love doing research about stuff so that'll be fun.
Julia: Me too, me too.
Kathy: So great! I appreciate you being with us, Judy and Julia. This is Kathy Stone.
Julia: and I am Julia Elliot. And we are all about all about dog. See you next time.
Kathy: Bye guys,
Julia: Bye.
