What Do You Do For A Crust: Hey y'all guys, and welcome to another episode of What Do You Do for a Crust? We apologise in advance, we had a few technical difficulties at the start of this episode, but with us, we have a fresh guest and we look forward to it. Thank you very much.
Mark: thank you for having me. It's been
What Do You Do For A Crust: How how do you get into it, mate?
Mark: look, I kinda just fell into the position well, that's not completely true. I started off probably about fifteen. I used to go into a local bakery and slice bread before school do sorta three AM till eight in the bakery slicing and then go to school for the day. And
What Do You Do For A Crust: Hello.
Mark: then after school sort of finished in year ten and then Went and worked alongside one of my friends that was baking at a baker's delight for a while and then just fell into the supermarket path after that.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Very fair, very fair indeed.
Mark: But yeah, it's been it's been a long time.
What Do You Do For A Crust: I was gonna say I I hope well, I mean I hope it's it's been a wonderful journey, fingers crossed. Can I ask you, May,
Mark: Mm.
What Do You Do For A Crust: what's I mean it's it's a really interesting industry and a very interesting career that I think a lot of people like we we rely on heavily. Everyone I know eats bread, you know, whether it's wholemeal,
Mark: Yep.
What Do You Do For A Crust: all that kind of stuff. And obviously I know you know baking is much more than just bread, but it's a common thing, you know, and a common staple
Mark: Yeah, of course.
What Do You Do For A Crust: diet in in most things. It's it's just a fascinating avenue. What's the pros and cons of being a baker?
Mark: I think there's there's a lot of pros. Like a lot of people like to focus on the cons of it, but for me it's being home early. Like I'm home before lunchtime most days.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah, well.
Mark: I will always have a job. Like you said, everyone eats bread. So I've got that trade behind
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah.
Mark: me and I know that you know, I could walk out of one place that I'm at today and have a job tomorrow. it's not to be cocky in a sense, but it's needed. People are needed.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah.
Mark: and then, you know, like for me, I look after my I've got two kids, I look after my girls when I get home from work and then my wife goes to work, so we don't have to worry about daycare. So there's a lot of flexibility with the pros.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Mm-hmm.
Mark: you know, the the early mornings are definitely a con for some people because it is, you know, obviously it's very early. So
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah. it is a you're you know, you're awake when most people
Mark: Mm.
What Do You Do For A Crust: are asleep, you're asleep when most people are awake.
Mark: Yeah. Yes. Yeah, the social aspects is quite difficult because, you know, as you said, I'm at work while all your friends are at at the pubs or the clubs and doing sporting events.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Mm.
Mark: Like I work every weekend. So like there's no
What Do You Do For A Crust: Phase.
Mark: you know, going to birthdays and stuff like that is tricky. So that can be a real challenge.
What Do You Do For A Crust: It it does sound like it sounds like quite a physically demanding job as well, in that, you know, you're you're working around I'm assuming around ovens, big machinery, those kind of things.
Mark: Yeah, yeah. Like yeah, absolutely. So on average, you know, it's n not like a bricklayer or something, but I would move half a ton of fl like dough across the bench every day easily. Like that's on a small day. And then, you know. So and
What Do You Do For A Crust: Wow. She had a small day.
Mark: you know, it's like you've got to you've gotta make something with that as well. So it's not just, you know. throw it in a hole or whatever, it's you know, you've got to produce a loaf of bread out of that or whatever. Rolls
What Do You Do For A Crust: Mm.
Mark: mainly. But yeah, so it's about
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah, jeez, okay.
Mark: half a ton a day, we sort of go through. Like on a the
What Do You Do For A Crust: I mean that's a fair amount of bread, dough and whatnot.
Mark: Yeah, well when you consider a
What Do You Do For A Crust: Can I ask you my
Mark: bread roll is eighty grams.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah, yeah, exactly. I sit there and go, like Jesus, a lot of slices.
Mark: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: It's quite a I think it's quite an interesting interesting to cre create to say the least. This is probably a stupid question, but I'm assuming it's it's an early start for the freshness of the product.
Mark: Yes. So it's
What Do You Do For A Crust: Is that the reasoning? Yeah, okay.
Mark: that's the main reason. Everyone wants it fresh, right? That's I mean, we
What Do You Do For A Crust: Mm.
Mark: do we have a process that's called retard baking. So we produce rolls the day before and they go into a fridge and they stay cold overnight and then they're ready when we arrive to start baking. So the start times are not as early as they used to be with those machinery, but Definitely if you get into the independent guys, you know, they'll be starting at ten o'clock at night. Whereas the supermarkets they're generally about three AM these days. So
What Do You Do For A Crust: I mean it's still a a hell of a day to say the least. Have you found the sleep pattern
Mark: Yeah, yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: has that mucked with you a bit? In regards to just you know like your c circadi rhythm and all those kind of things?
Mark: yeah, I mean it's you definitely spend a lot of time thinking about your sleep, whereas you could just you know, it's different. Since having kids it's become a real challenge, but 'cause I used to just go to bed early. I used to just go to bed at six o'clock in the evening and then I was set, right? So but now it's you know, dinner time doesn't finish till eight, so or whatever, which is fine. You just have to You have a little nap during the day
What Do You Do For A Crust: I guess
Mark: and It's just sorta you just gotta make do.
What Do You Do For A Crust: I would I would presume to say like, you know, you're you're wanting to be there for your girls and your family, but then also, you know, you need your sleep, you need your sanity so that you can actually function at work as well.
Mark: Yeah. Yep.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Quite tricky to find a middle ground. What's your what's your secret? Is it coffee? Is it energy drinks? Is it I don't know
Mark: it's
What Do You Do For A Crust: I don't know what?
Mark: I drink a lot of yeah, I drink a lot of soft drink, I guess is the key
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah.
Mark: the odd coffee in the afternoon. But you know, apart from that it's just you've I think you've got to be the sort of person that can work like live off low sleep. If you're someone that needs eight
What Do You Do For A Crust: Mm.
Mark: hours a day, I don't think it's for you. Like I'm I average
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah, very fair.
Mark: I average five and a half to six hours sleep a day max. And I'm good. Like
What Do You Do For A Crust: Wow.
Mark: like so that's sort of the normal
What Do You Do For A Crust: I think a lot of people can't function on Yeah. I would assume a lot of people can't function
Mark: Yeah. Like I haven't
What Do You Do For A Crust: on on that minimal.
Mark: Well, I haven't had a sleep today and I've been up since two AM. So what is it now? Nine. So I'm I'm like I'm all good. So yeah. But
What Do You Do For A Crust: Jesus Bloody Hell I mean what do you do in your days off mate? Is it just like you just sleep for twelve hours straight?
Mark: No, not really. Like typically so like tomorrow is my last day for this week and then I'll have I have a three day break because I do a six four roster. so I'll have Thursday, Friday, Saturday off. And tomorrow I'll probably be up till midnight or something like that and then sort of just chill out, have a little get up at six o'clock on my day off, make sure I don't sleep in too much. You don't want to like get in the habit of having a huge sleep and then needing to rely on it. You just sort of gotta keep the rhythm and you just
What Do You Do For A Crust: Mm.
Mark: keep going. So like days off, you know, it's the same as everyone else. Yard work, renovations, go to the beach, do what you know, all the normal.
What Do You Do For A Crust: I I'm guessing it's a bit of life goes on kind of thing, so you've just gotta keep you know, you've gotta get done what you've gotta get done.
Mark: Yeah, you just gotta keep going.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Jeez. I mean I I have absolutely a lot of respect for you 'cause yeah, it doesn't sound like a particularly easy job. I'm expecting that you're you know, you're on your feet the whole time, you're constantly moving, you're having to do things, you've got to be aware 'cause you've got, you
Mark: Yeah. So
What Do You Do For A Crust: know, machinery, you you've got ovens. Have you got some gnarly burns? I thought you might.
Mark: No, I'm I'm good. Nothing.
What Do You Do For A Crust: No? Okay.
Mark: Yeah. I th I think not over the years, yes, but currently not I don't have one. But it's you know, I've been doing it
What Do You Do For A Crust: Okay.
Mark: for so long now. If I was burning if I was burning myself every week I'd have to question myself, right?
What Do You Do For A Crust: That's very fair. you talked about one of the key things about being a baker is you know, someone being able to operate on probably minimal sleep. Are there other key attributes or skills that someone should have in regards to, you know, being a successful baker, you know, pushing through the the tiredness or, you know, being able to follow a recipe to the tea or
Mark: I think yeah, so it's not on the supermarket side of things it's not as crucial, but good math is important in the like when you get into the smaller independent bakeries and stuff like that, like working out your recipes and ratios and following those is really important. But us in the supermarket world we use a pre mix. So we basically just add water and yeast and we're off and rolling. But Yeah, I think math is important and time management. You really need to
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah.
Mark: really mentally plan your day as you're producing because you don't want to like there's usually two people in the bakery, you don't want to overload the second worker with too much for them to put through the oven and then produce a bad product because of that. So like I run the bench, so
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah. I mean that very fair.
Mark: like I'm so
What Do You Do For A Crust: What's what's running the bench? Can you explain that to us?
Mark: So that's the lead baker. So that is the person mixing the doughs and producing the actual bread. And then we typically have an ovens person who they put it through the oven when when they arrive. And there's usually a like a three
What Do You Do For A Crust: Claro.
Mark: hour stagger between those two shifts. So like the first three hours I'm solo.
What Do You Do For A Crust: So it sounds like a it can be a little bit lonely at the start as well. Like not you know, not that saying you need someone there, but i if it's just you.
Mark: Yeah, yeah. It I guess if you Yeah, if you need to be around people, again, probably not that's maybe that's a con for some people, but I like my quiet time. I get a lot more done when I'm by myself.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Fair very fair indeed. What what kind of growth opportunities
Mark: So Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: what kind of growth opportunities does someone have, you know, in the baking industry when it comes to, you know, that you said head baker and such. Can you explain to us kind of the pathway?
Mark: Yeah. So I'll just speak from supermarket terms because that's my
What Do You Do For A Crust: Sure.
Mark: most familiar, but so you come in as an apprentice and you make your way up to the lead baker, which is my position. Now once you're qualified, there's no pay difference with Coles. It's we're on a award wage or an agreement and it's all the same. So
What Do You Do For A Crust: Mm-hmm.
Mark: I'm happy to share that. That's thirty dollars. It's about thirty one dollars or something like that. Like somewhere around there, base rate. So and from there you earn your penalty rate.
What Do You Do For A Crust: So I think like pr pretty Okay. 'Cause it can be I'm assuming it could be quite lucrative given you're doing shift work. And you said before it's a six by four, like six six sorry, a six and three? Okay.
Mark: Yeah, so I do it I do a six by four. So six and four. So one week I have Friday off and the other week I have Thursday, Friday, Saturday off. So
What Do You Do For A Crust: okay. I'm with you.
Mark: Yeah, yeah. And then my roster
What Do You Do For A Crust: All right.
Mark: my roster's a bit weird because I I do longer shifts on the weekends and short shifts during the week. So it's just to get the penalty rates up a bit really for
What Do You Do For A Crust: Got it.
Mark: me. But yeah, so you're looking When you take the penalty rates into it, you're about thirty five dollars now.
What Do You Do For A Crust: And I'm just thinking about what a sanded day is. If you're prepping the dough and that ready for the second person who's doing the the the oven
Mark: Mm-hmm.
What Do You Do For A Crust: sorry mate, we might be are we still got ya?
Mark: Yeah. Try again. Yeah, still got me.
What Do You Do For A Crust: I think we've still got ya. It it might it might be my tech, mate, so I'm really sorry. Still got ya. I was just curious, if you're doing head baking
Mark: That's right.
What Do You Do For A Crust: and you're dealing with the half the ton of the of like the dough and such, are you weighing it out based on loaf, based on rolls and all that, Howard, or is it just purely like muscle memory?
Mark: so we have machinery to help. So I would arrive and I would start with by mixing basically fifty kilos of flour and thirty kilos of water, so I'd get eighty kilos of dough, right? Now out of that I
What Do You Do For A Crust: Jesus.
Mark: will produce I will produce the first hundred loaves of bread, essentially. So you know, we you cut it's called a D twenty, so it goes into Like a big press and in that press it's it's got like it divides the dough into twenty even pieces. So we put sixteen kilos in. Well d I'll make an easy one. You put twenty kilos in,
What Do You Do For A Crust: Okay.
Mark: you close the lid, it cuts it into ten individual one kilo chunks. Yeah, round yeah, because and then we use that.
What Do You Do For A Crust: I was gonna say round numbers. okay, I'm with you. we like round numbers.
Mark: Yeah, that's I made it yeah. 'Cause normally we go sixteen kilos in, eight hundred grams out, and then you put three of those to give you together, gives you a a head for a roll, which is that's a separate thing. But anyway, we won't go there. It's just a lot of it's a lot of little bit of math. Like once you get used
What Do You Do For A Crust: Do you have a do you have a favourite thing to bake?
Mark: to it, you favorite bike. sorta sorta gone away a little bit over the years, but I still like French sticks and Vienna's like
What Do You Do For A Crust: Okay. Mm.
Mark: Like the just baking that sort of bread is nice. But I mean, the problem is the supermarket will destroy your creative side for baking. Like is a negative
What Do You Do For A Crust: Mm.
Mark: for it because it is you know, we have I've had lead management, I'm talking store managers and above, tell me they want quant quantity, not quality. And you know.
What Do You Do For A Crust: That's a shame.
Mark: There's not much you can do. You you're limit you're very you're very limited on time. Like that's a I work in one of the biggest busiest bakeries in my region. And yeah, we produce two X, what all the other bakeries in the region do. So it can be quite challenging. You know, I need to move like that eighty kilos of dough per hour and not stop the whole day. So I mean it doesn't sound like much like eighty kilos, but
What Do You Do For A Crust: Jesus. I mean it's
Mark: it's it's a lot.
What Do You Do For A Crust: No, but when you're doing it all day, I can, you know, I sit and I think w I used to be a
Mark: Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: trading mate and I think about you know, a twenty kilo bag of concrete moving that back and forth. It takes its toll and that's twenty kilos, let
Mark: Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: alone eighty.
Mark: Yeah. And I mean, yeah. It's just it is what it is. It's not
What Do You Do For A Crust: It it must be a a bit of a challenge I guess 'cause it's it's all about the quota. Yeah.
Mark: Yeah. I mean that's the difference. And that's why I say, you know, I can't stress enough supermarket side of things. Some things I'll say that bakers will literally turn over. Like they you know, there's we don't rest we don't rest our doughs. There's no you know, you see all these videos of bakers on YouTube and whatever doing all this fancy stuff. It's in it's nothing like that. We are bulk Bulk bread quickly.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah, I
Mark: That's it.
What Do You Do For A Crust: but that's there's no hiding that. There's no hidden secret like the people I would assume presume that that's the case and
Mark: No, there's no it and it's fine, like you know, you know, for
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah. And it's still delicious.
Mark: For your general Yeah, it's fine. But it's just not you know, there's nothing to be super excited on my side. You know, you guys might see it and think, wow, that looks really good, but we know. The bakers know that it's not.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Hmm. Do you get in the perks for the job? Do you get to take some loaves home or something like that? Surely. Really?
Mark: Nothing. Nope. Nope. independence, definitely. That's a yeah. When you work in an independent absolutely, but a supermarket, no, not at all.
What Do You Do For A Crust: I I sit there and I I wonder like I would have assumed there would have been good perks, I guess, mate, you know, that you're getting to you know, you're making certain things and you get to, you know, we made one too many or
Mark: Yeah nah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: but is it all is everything down to a fine minute, like no wastage
Mark: it's not like grey area, technically, you know, if something went missing no one's gonna notice. Like, you know, if you had a snack,
What Do You Do For A Crust: Mm.
Mark: you're fine. But officially there's not allowed to touch it. They'd rather throw it in the bin.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah, okay.
Mark: And we we throw out a lot daily.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Which I th I think is mad, th you know, throwing it away. Ugh, see like give it away or you know what I mean? Like I and I get there's there's health and safety and I can only imagine the food safety prep that you've got to go through as well and the and the
Mark: Yeah. Yeah, there's well I think
What Do You Do For A Crust: cleaning of everything.
Mark: Yeah, that's yeah. Cleaning is a lot. But we the company I work for, it does it does some charity stuff with some a small portion of the bread that's left over and the rest of it goes to a farmer and he feeds some pigs, I think, or something like that. I don't know. So but apart from that.
What Do You Do For A Crust: are you sick of dough?
Mark: yeah, absolutely. It's been a long time. I think I'm almost at
What Do You Do For A Crust: So I'm assuming I'm assuming you don't do toast or anything like that.
Mark: look, you know, I buy tip top bread. I'm like just sorta I'm at the point where it's it serves a function now, I'm not really chasing it.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Hmm. Do you bake things at home? Do you still have that passion to to you know to bake or create at home? You know, that like your
Mark: Every now
What Do You Do For A Crust: your daughter's birthday cakes?
Mark: Yeah, so I don't do the cakes, I leave that to my wife 'cause she's very good at them. but I don't bake at home I never baked at home until my girls started to want to. And so I baked like my first loaf of bread at home ever this year with my daughter. So
What Do You Do For A Crust: That's lovely though. That's really nice. I mean you're probably like, ugh, another loaf, but that's that's that's quite sweet, yeah.
Mark: Yeah, yeah. So that's nice, but it's No, it's it's different. It's different though, so But yeah. Apart from that, yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Very fair. Can I ask you, it's a bit of a pointy question, so I I do apologize and and feel free not to answer if if it's a bit pointy, but I know the there's a lot of talk around, you know, supermarkets and how they set their prices for things and you know, you'll see a loaf of bread is like a dollar fifty or something like
Mark: Mm-hmm.
What Do You Do For A Crust: that and Can I ask you, does that does that bother you? Because I sit and I I would think, you know, your blood, sweat and tears, your hard work, your 3 a.m. starts, the you know, not being on your feet for eight hours and and whatnot, and they're selling a loaf of bread for a buck fifty. It seems, you know, like supermarkets
Mark: I
What Do You Do For A Crust: i i in order for them to provide that cheap, it just seems a bit cheeky.
Mark: Yeah, see they still make money on it, so I don't really
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah.
Mark: I don't have a problem. I think if anything, I think they're too expensive. So
What Do You Do For A Crust: Really?
Mark: I think Yeah, I would say that the like in in house bread that we make is priced a little high. Like because they'd be paying
What Do You Do For A Crust: Mm, okay.
Mark: like five dollars for the flour to make thirty loaves, you know.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah, okay. So a decent mark
Mark: said like it's not
What Do You Do For A Crust: up.
Mark: Yeah, so I know that obviously there's everything that goes
What Do You Do For A Crust: Mm.
Mark: into it. Insurance, marketing, all the stuff. Obviously there's you know, all those costs. But I mean if they were paying more than thirty cents to make a loaf of bread, I'd be surprised. Even with all the factors in there.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah, okay. I mean it is a it is a business, you know, we we get that. It's it's I guess the aspect
Mark: Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: of of what it looks like. Can I ask you, Mark,
Mark: Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: what is what's a typical day look like? Can you walk us through from start to finish what is what a sort of typical day looks like? I just want to get a gist for the listeners out there about actually how
Mark: Yep.
What Do You Do For A Crust: hard bakers do work.
Mark: Yeah, okay, so out of bed at two AM for me. So
What Do You Do For A Crust: Mm.
Mark: my day I'll go start to finish. Out of bed, two AM, arrive at bakery at about two thirty. straight in, ovens on, and I start moving rolls through. And then it'll be mixing dough. And I will not so if I let's say we'll just call it three AM start. And I will not take a break until about 9 30. It will be constant. So it'll be
What Do You Do For A Crust: Jesus.
Mark: six hours, six and a half hours of nonstop. Like it does not stop. And whether I'm you know, the first three hours I'm solo, so I'm mixing doughs, making the product, pulling the ovens, and packaging some of the smaller things to help the other staff out that I'm working with. So, you know, you can be you know, average day is like twelve thousand steps minimum. So
What Do You Do For A Crust: Change.
Mark: twelve to fifteen thousand steps is a standard sort of day in the bakery.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah, I mean that's a hell of a lot. You're thinking about like you know,
Mark: Like that's a small day, so
What Do You Do For A Crust: the average the average office worker does like twelve hundred your times tening it. Jeez, okay. So then I'm assuming you then get a break.
Mark: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's well out there. And
What Do You Do For A Crust: So then you get a you get a break after your six six and a half hours, depending on
Mark: Yeah, so I So it's a bit of a thing in bakery is we tend to take all our breaks at the end. So I just finish my shift and then I take my lunch break at the end of my shift and sign off and go home. So because
What Do You Do For A Crust: Ha ha ha.
Mark: there's a I know that's not, you know, I don't want to go down the health and safety path. I've done that before. That's previous job. but you know For the benefit of the bakery, because if you stop mid shift, you lose half an hour, like forty minutes easily. Like and that's not including the break time. So to have the product out early enough, because we have a we have a time in the morning that we have to have every product on display, and that's about ten AM. I mean, we I get that every day easily, but You know, for some guys they really struggle. They take their breaks and then, you know, they might not get a whole meal out of the oven until nine o'clock and then, you know, you've missed two hours of trade where you could have sold that bread. Like so taking the break is r not
What Do You Do For A Crust: Interesting. Wow. It sounds I mean it I can unders I can understand the justification of taking the break afterwards because you've got that ten AM deadline I guess,
Mark: Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: but geez, that shouldn't be at the detriment of of you guys and actually getting just to sit for a second and you know.
Mark: No, it's and I will say I would say, you know, I'm I'm a bit different. I'm a bit old school. I was taught by old bakers. I was, you know, grew up, you just get it done. But, you know, the other guys,
What Do You Do For A Crust: Let's push the ring.
Mark: they take their breaks and I people should. Like I preach to it, you know,
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah.
Mark: all the packers and all the other staff. I said, If you need your break, go take it. Like you really need to make sure, you know There's no reason to. You just go take it. But I'm I like to just finish.
What Do You Do For A Crust: I can see the appeal that you've got, you know, like you've you've then got you're getting kind of an extra half an hour back in your day. If you can push through and persevere, you know, the reward at the end is pretty good.
Mark: Yeah, like I I use that I go do you know, I might I might go do my groceries or duck off to Bunnings or something and grab whatever I need and then come back and sign off. It's not really you know, it's a bit different.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Fair, I mean very fair. Do you have quotas? Like do the
Mark: But yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: do those quotas change based on season? So as in like d you know, do you have to get
Mark: Sorry, repeat that again.
What Do You Do For A Crust: you know how you said you've got to get, you know, certain things out by, you know, say ten o'clock or you know, so they can be on on shelf ready for sale. D do those numbers change
Mark: Yep. Yep.
What Do You Do For A Crust: throughout the year? Like, you know, winter people buy more bread or, you know, buy more this and season, hot cross buns?
Mark: Yeah, so that it it changes daily.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Okay. Daily.
Mark: Yep. Okay. So yeah, those change we have a daily. We have a production sheet we have to follow. And it's basically ten pages of products. And each one of those products changes between, you know, maybe one day we make forty packets of hot dog rolls, the next day we make thirty-five, fifty, sixty, you know, as the week goes on, you know, obviously Friday, Saturday, Sunday are gonna be busier, Monday. You know, you get the people coming in after the weekend after, you know, start with their school lunches, so there might be some more bread on Monday. It's yeah, it changes daily. And it's all used to be a lot more manual, but it's a lot more AI driven now by the software. It just sort of changes whatever they want.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Okay. What's the what's usually
Mark: But but yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: the biggest seller?
Mark: it's just soft round rolls. Six pack soft round.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Really? Just just classic cargaron.
Mark: So yeah. Plain white sick fact soft rolls. We sell on a Sunday to it.
What Do You Do For A Crust: We're such a basic Australia's such a
Mark: Yeah, so basic. It's like we
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah.
Mark: sell two hundred packets of those on a Saturday, a Sunday. And like yeah, we can't even sell ten packets a whole meal. It's
What Do You Do For A Crust: Jesus. I just keep thinking of like my my old man, my dad is just like, no, I'll only eat white bread, white plain rolls, like just very I'm not eating anything
Mark: Yeah. Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: with seeds in it, you know, nothing healthy or even slightly healthy. and you just can't go past a good
Mark: Yeah. Like there's
What Do You Do For A Crust: a good plain roll.
Mark: Yeah, the variety stuff makes up maybe twenty percent of my f production. The rest of it is all white.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Well
Mark: So the seeded and that goes for like the low GI white or like carb stuff, the lower GI stuff, whatever
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah, okay.
Mark: they call it. And you know.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Have there have there been any like large industry changes in the last couple of years? the reason I ask is because there's always, you know, particularly being in a supermarket, you're you I know that there's usually a lot more, I guess, you know, social standards and government, you know, standards and such that, you know, and laws and legislation
Mark: Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: that constraint things. Is there always big changes within or is it pretty pretty similar?
Mark: It's been pretty similar the last ten years. Like I've been back ten years now this time. Well, like ten years is next year. So nine years, sorry. And it hasn't changed much. I mean we did the whole COVID thing. That was insane, obviously.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah.
Mark: And then apart from that, you know, it's nothing's really at our level. I mean, we get a little bit of where I work, we used to make a lot more stuff. I mean if you go right back like the supermarkets used to make a lot more product on site. Now it's all just sort of brought in. Like there's a lot more just brought in stuff. But you know, there's nothing really
What Do You Do For A Crust: It's a shame really. I'd I love that there's the bakery. sorry.
Mark: Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah. I
Mark: Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: sorry mate, I didn't mean to cut you up cut you off. I love you know, I remember being a trade and going into Coles or Woolies or one of the, you big supermarket chains. We've got Drake's here and SA and y you know, you go into any of them, you know, seven AM to get a you know, an iced coffee and you know, as the smell of the bakery would just be intoxicating. I think, you know, I haven't met a single person on this planet who doesn't like the smell of baked bread. It's a lovely
Mark: Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: thing.
Mark: Yeah, it's it's not the worst. So
What Do You Do For A Crust: That's true. That's true. Can I ask you
Mark: Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: if there's anyone out there listening to this episode and you know that hopefully they've learned a little bit about being a baker and, you know, specifically maybe a baker in a supermarket, would you give them any advice?
Mark: if you were fresh coming into the supermarket world, there's a a short course they offer now and it's called a skilled baker or something similar. It depends which option you go. And I think it's if you're only gonna be in a supermarket world though, because it essentially cuts your training down to six weeks and you'll be on fifty cents less than the qualified. And then you've got enough. You can work on the skills from then. You don't have to go through the three, four years of apprenticeship wages. I I've done the math. It takes a long time to make that money back if you like now that they're bringing this new thing in. Cause now they do It sort of killed the trade a little bit in a it's a sort of a sad thing, but I think if someone was coming in today, that would be my recommendation is to like especially if they were just trialing it in a supermarket. If you're going independent, do the apprenticeship, pay attention, listen to the old guys. They're not just being mean, like listen to them.
What Do You Do For A Crust: I think that's that's very sound advice. Very sound advice. Hmm. It's a it is a shame. It's a shame hearing
Mark: But apart from that.
What Do You Do For A Crust: that yeah, it's a shame hearing the, you know, the yes, they're fast tracking stuff, which I I could assume would have its own appeal, but we're
Mark: Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: losing that creativity, we're losing what makes the trade the trade, the
Mark: Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: the the role the role, you know, that learning and and
Mark: Absolutely.
What Do You Do For A Crust: you know, building up, which is which is a real shame.
Mark: Yeah. Yeah, I think if you
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah.
Mark: like if you really want if you're interested in bakery, you go independent, you go bake even baker's delight, Brumbies, whatever, any one of those, they will teach you a thousand more things than we'll ever teach you in a supermarket.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Would you ever make the shift yourself? Like what can I ask? Without me being too forward, I do apologise if that's a real forward question. It is a forward question, so I'm sorry.
Mark: it's it's the so no, it's fine. I think it's just in general the the money's slightly better on the supermarket side.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah. Fair. Yeah. Appreciate the honesty, mate. Yeah.
Mark: Like and it comes down to that for me, like a lot of a a lot of so I mean if you want to talk salary ranges, it's you know, you're in that seventy-five to eighty-five K is the standard. Like if you look at Seek and you know, you just search Baker, that's what you'll see. It'll be seventy-five, eighty, sometimes sixty, but I wouldn't touch that. me in my role, I cleared six figures last year.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah, well.
Mark: So I mean I did a lot of overtime. I I did a lot of overtime for it, but you know, I got I got the six figures and that's just in the supermarket. I don't know many other bakers that do. So
What Do You Do For A Crust: but that's that's good cheddar, absolutely, that's good money. You think about I'm assuming there's not
Mark: Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: as many opportunities to do over time in the smaller baker you know, bakery places or, you know, maybe the smaller shops and such that once they sell out, they sell out and that's it.
Mark: Well i it depend yeah. Yeah, that's it. It just depends. I mean it's a it's a lucky dip. Like you could go the bakery next door and they could be offering the world to you. You don't know. I mean, unless you ask, I guess is that's another
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah.
Mark: thing. Always open mind, go and ask. You know? Like I've I've fallen into the trap a little bit of maybe just got a little bit comfortable as well, and you know, maybe I should have asked some other places and branched out over the years and see where it took me, but I don't know. It's also nice. I can work thirty eight hours and go home. Yeah. Maybe.
What Do You Do For A Crust: No, you never know. You're you're still young, mate. I mean, I I gotta admit, it's a it's a very underrated very underrated avenue to have that, to say, yeah, I come in, I clock in, I do my work, I clock out, I go home, I don't have to think about shit. That's a that's a huge appeal that I don't think a lot of people really
Mark: Yeah. Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: understand until you're heavy into the workforce and you know you're ten od ten odd years at least. that you don't
Mark: Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: have to worry about, you know, that you don't have that anxiety when you're
Mark: Yeah, so
What Do You Do For A Crust: when you're at home.
Mark: Yeah. I had a break between baking in the middle there for six years where I was on call and your phone's always on and there's you know, any time, any
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah.
Mark: where you are, you have to respond is the job I had before. So but yeah, the bakeries it's kinda easy for me now.
What Do You Do For A Crust: I mean that's what that's what you want, isn't it? You know, work is not meant to you know, you hope it's not gonna be hard. It's meant to be something you enjoy, but obviously, you
Mark: Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: know, it it needs to be something that y it you're still able to do and you know, take satisfaction out of it. Would you ever make would you ever start your own bakery?
Mark: not now. I think I
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah.
Mark: should have in my younger years. I think now is a bit it's just a lot of capital. Like to set up a bakery,
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah.
Mark: you know, I like to I like to look at it, you know, take plumber, electrician, builder, all those sort of normal trades, right? You give them fifty thousand dollars, they could buy a second hand ute, a bunch of tools and be working that week. Right? That's
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah.
Mark: you know, maybe they don't have maybe they don't have a full set of fluke instruments or whatever. They don't have the bees knees, but they're operating. Bakery,
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah.
Mark: the mixer's twelve thousand dollars. That's one piece of equipment.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Jesus.
Mark: You need bricks you need bricks and mortar. Like you've got ovens, you know, they're I mean, yes, you can buy second hand and you can piece it together, but then you got maintenance cost it's just I don't know. Most secondhand bakeries are
What Do You Do For A Crust: So
Mark: north of one hundred eighty, two hundred K and it's just a lot.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah, plenty of it's a lot of work to start that as well, I can imagine. W
Mark: And like I've had friends Yeah, I've seen friends do well and do very badly through the bakery stuff. And I mean, you know, I think it's just obviously it all comes down to how much work you want to put in, how much risk you wanna take. I'm probably a little bit more cautious. I like to I like to know that my my mortgage is paid, my kids are fed and I'm fed, we're happy. That's it.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that, mate, at all. You've got you've got family to rely on, you've got family that relying on you, sorry, and that's that's very fair. You can always
Mark: Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: do a bit of a s a side hustle and, you know, do the baked baked bread in the, you know, farmers market on a Saturday morning or something like that. Could always be something. It's a lot of work though, I can understand that. Well, you do now with your girls, so you know. very fair, man, very fair.
Mark: Yeah. Yeah, but I don't I don't bake bread at home. Yeah. I mean you could. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know.
What Do You Do For A Crust: we Yeah. I mean it's it's a it's an interesting one. I'd I definitely respect you for your honesty to say, you know, I'm happy with what I've got, I'm happy with what it's doing. You know I I never knew a mix was twelve grand.
Mark: Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Holy shit, that's a lot of money, pardon my language, but that's a lot of coin for, you know, I'm
Mark: Yeah, that's
What Do You Do For A Crust: assuming one of the many tools that you need.
Mark: Yeah, that's just one component. So I I don't know the actual figure, but it would have to be north of a hundred grand to equip just the equipment. That's no fit out, that's no benches, that's just the equipment. Like and I mean
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah. Then I'm assuming you need you know, you need racks, baking trays, cleaning products, stores. Yeah.
Mark: Yeah, it's all of it. You know, like, you know, I see I see what my where I work for, what they pay for, you know, they pay a hundred dollars a tin. Like and that's through the supermarkets. So I can't imagine what it would be if you were buying s like if you were independent buying smaller quantities. I imagine that figure is maybe it's a hundred and fifty dollars a tin. And, you know, you need lots of them. Like it's you know
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah.
Mark: Thirty tins you know, thirty tins of rack or whatever, it's a lot.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah, very fair. Plus you need the you know, the the electricity around the ovens, you know, you need the space, like you said, you need brick and mortar, yeah.
Mark: Yeah, the electricity, water, fridges. Like it's just a lot.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah.
Mark: Packaging. And then obviously you need a team. I mean, you know.
What Do You Do For A Crust: And then you've got, you know, health and safety inspections and yeah. Yeah, it's a lot. Very fair.
Mark: Yeah. Like I never wanna like as a tradesman like I would never want to put anyone off doing it, you know. So if you're out there and you're thinking about doing it, go for it. Like, you know, you it's just not for me. Like, it's just not I just don't think I think it's a bit hard to compete as well. You know, we talked about pricing with the supermarkets and I said they're a bit expensive, but you know, I can't imagine trying to compete with them. Like
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah.
Mark: Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Well, I mean just the sheer amount that they can they purchase in bulk, you know, how can you cover the quantity that they're purchasing to get the same price? It's
Mark: Yeah. Yeah, they Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: just so hard. Yeah. Very fair. Very fair indeed.
Mark: Yeah, you would never. But
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah, it's a grim one. mate, I'm conscious of time.
Mark: Yeah, apart from that.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Not that I want to wrap you up, but I know obviously you are
Mark: Yeah, that's all right.
What Do You Do For A Crust: up you've been up for a long time. Jesus, you've been up for a long time. And then you're up again very soon as well.
Mark: Yeah, I'm all right.
What Do You Do For A Crust: My my last question, mate, is can I ask you, given
Mark: Yeah. Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: that you had a six hour break, sorry, six a six year gap and break and w on call and such, it sounds like you're you like w you know, and I'm I'm presuming a bit here, but you sounds like you like tough jobs because you're you know, you're constantly on call before for the last gig. This one is extremely difficult in regards to sleep
Mark: Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: patterns and such. Have you found the sleep pattern has affected you at all? You know, has it has it aged you more? Have you have you are you're a bit more irritable on certain days? Are you just sort of like, nah, this actually works for me? And that that's
Mark: I Yeah. Yeah, like you know, I think I mean this will sound fun. Once I start to dip below four hours sleep a day, I can be a little bit snappy. But
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah.
Mark: as long as I get that four hours ish, I'm good. Like, you know, I might get six hours on my day off or something.
What Do You Do For A Crust: I think if I did below seven, I'd turn into an absolute grouch. I'm I I've got to have
Mark: Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: I have the utmost respect for you, mate, because that's that's a hard slog. You're working hard, physically demanding, time constraints, no break, and all on, you know, alternative hours to say the least. It's it's it's definitely not for the faint hearted. So I think that's that's probably a
Mark: Yeah. Yep. Yeah, and this is you know, I'm not I wouldn't
What Do You Do For A Crust: you go, you're up.
Mark: I wouldn't consider myself unique unique in this aspect either. I would say most of the bakers I work with over the years, you know, I've worked with hundreds of them and we're all pretty much the same. It's the same story if you talk to any of us. We all you know, going thirty hours a week is not uncommon. You know, if you want to go to that event that is on the weekend and you go and do that and then you just link work to work and it's just sorta normal.
What Do You Do For A Crust: I'm just saying to the listeners out there, when you are in the shopping centre next, when you're in the supermarket and you're getting a loaf of bread, you're getting some white rolls, whatever you're getting, I hope you take a minute to appreciate the baker that made that because God they they're doing it tough and and I think it's a lot of it's a great role and a very important role that we all love baked goods, but then often not a lot of recognition. We just, you know, we grab it off the shelf like it's nothing and probably not appreciate it. And, you know, farmers get a lot of a lot of comments and and social media about, you know, beef farmers and and dairy farmers and such, but bakers tend to get a little bit left in the dust, which is I think thinks a bit unfair. So I think we should we should honour
Mark: Yeah, it's okay.
What Do You Do For A Crust: and and appreciate that's for sure. mate, thank you so much for your time. Extremely appreciative. I really hope you you know you you finish up and you get some sleep. And and you know, thank you so much for all the work that you do.
Mark: Ha ha.
What Do You Do For A Crust: We really appreciate putting the loaves of bread on the table.
Mark: No worries. Thank you for having me, guys. It's been good.
What Do You Do For A Crust: It's been an absolute pleasure, mate. Very, very keen and and very much appreciative of your time and and unpacking, you know, the day to day of what a baker looks like. But yeah, cheers. Well thanks again.
Mark: thank you for having me. It's been
What Do You Do For A Crust: How how do you get into it, mate?
Mark: look, I kinda just fell into the position well, that's not completely true. I started off probably about fifteen. I used to go into a local bakery and slice bread before school do sorta three AM till eight in the bakery slicing and then go to school for the day. And
What Do You Do For A Crust: Hello.
Mark: then after school sort of finished in year ten and then Went and worked alongside one of my friends that was baking at a baker's delight for a while and then just fell into the supermarket path after that.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Very fair, very fair indeed.
Mark: But yeah, it's been it's been a long time.
What Do You Do For A Crust: I was gonna say I I hope well, I mean I hope it's it's been a wonderful journey, fingers crossed. Can I ask you, May,
Mark: Mm.
What Do You Do For A Crust: what's I mean it's it's a really interesting industry and a very interesting career that I think a lot of people like we we rely on heavily. Everyone I know eats bread, you know, whether it's wholemeal,
Mark: Yep.
What Do You Do For A Crust: all that kind of stuff. And obviously I know you know baking is much more than just bread, but it's a common thing, you know, and a common staple
Mark: Yeah, of course.
What Do You Do For A Crust: diet in in most things. It's it's just a fascinating avenue. What's the pros and cons of being a baker?
Mark: I think there's there's a lot of pros. Like a lot of people like to focus on the cons of it, but for me it's being home early. Like I'm home before lunchtime most days.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah, well.
Mark: I will always have a job. Like you said, everyone eats bread. So I've got that trade behind
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah.
Mark: me and I know that you know, I could walk out of one place that I'm at today and have a job tomorrow. it's not to be cocky in a sense, but it's needed. People are needed.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah.
Mark: and then, you know, like for me, I look after my I've got two kids, I look after my girls when I get home from work and then my wife goes to work, so we don't have to worry about daycare. So there's a lot of flexibility with the pros.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Mm-hmm.
Mark: you know, the the early mornings are definitely a con for some people because it is, you know, obviously it's very early. So
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah. it is a you're you know, you're awake when most people
Mark: Mm.
What Do You Do For A Crust: are asleep, you're asleep when most people are awake.
Mark: Yeah. Yes. Yeah, the social aspects is quite difficult because, you know, as you said, I'm at work while all your friends are at at the pubs or the clubs and doing sporting events.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Mm.
Mark: Like I work every weekend. So like there's no
What Do You Do For A Crust: Phase.
Mark: you know, going to birthdays and stuff like that is tricky. So that can be a real challenge.
What Do You Do For A Crust: It it does sound like it sounds like quite a physically demanding job as well, in that, you know, you're you're working around I'm assuming around ovens, big machinery, those kind of things.
Mark: Yeah, yeah. Like yeah, absolutely. So on average, you know, it's n not like a bricklayer or something, but I would move half a ton of fl like dough across the bench every day easily. Like that's on a small day. And then, you know. So and
What Do You Do For A Crust: Wow. She had a small day.
Mark: you know, it's like you've got to you've gotta make something with that as well. So it's not just, you know. throw it in a hole or whatever, it's you know, you've got to produce a loaf of bread out of that or whatever. Rolls
What Do You Do For A Crust: Mm.
Mark: mainly. But yeah, so it's about
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah, jeez, okay.
Mark: half a ton a day, we sort of go through. Like on a the
What Do You Do For A Crust: I mean that's a fair amount of bread, dough and whatnot.
Mark: Yeah, well when you consider a
What Do You Do For A Crust: Can I ask you my
Mark: bread roll is eighty grams.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah, yeah, exactly. I sit there and go, like Jesus, a lot of slices.
Mark: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: It's quite a I think it's quite an interesting interesting to cre create to say the least. This is probably a stupid question, but I'm assuming it's it's an early start for the freshness of the product.
Mark: Yes. So it's
What Do You Do For A Crust: Is that the reasoning? Yeah, okay.
Mark: that's the main reason. Everyone wants it fresh, right? That's I mean, we
What Do You Do For A Crust: Mm.
Mark: do we have a process that's called retard baking. So we produce rolls the day before and they go into a fridge and they stay cold overnight and then they're ready when we arrive to start baking. So the start times are not as early as they used to be with those machinery, but Definitely if you get into the independent guys, you know, they'll be starting at ten o'clock at night. Whereas the supermarkets they're generally about three AM these days. So
What Do You Do For A Crust: I mean it's still a a hell of a day to say the least. Have you found the sleep pattern
Mark: Yeah, yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: has that mucked with you a bit? In regards to just you know like your c circadi rhythm and all those kind of things?
Mark: yeah, I mean it's you definitely spend a lot of time thinking about your sleep, whereas you could just you know, it's different. Since having kids it's become a real challenge, but 'cause I used to just go to bed early. I used to just go to bed at six o'clock in the evening and then I was set, right? So but now it's you know, dinner time doesn't finish till eight, so or whatever, which is fine. You just have to You have a little nap during the day
What Do You Do For A Crust: I guess
Mark: and It's just sorta you just gotta make do.
What Do You Do For A Crust: I would I would presume to say like, you know, you're you're wanting to be there for your girls and your family, but then also, you know, you need your sleep, you need your sanity so that you can actually function at work as well.
Mark: Yeah. Yep.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Quite tricky to find a middle ground. What's your what's your secret? Is it coffee? Is it energy drinks? Is it I don't know
Mark: it's
What Do You Do For A Crust: I don't know what?
Mark: I drink a lot of yeah, I drink a lot of soft drink, I guess is the key
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah.
Mark: the odd coffee in the afternoon. But you know, apart from that it's just you've I think you've got to be the sort of person that can work like live off low sleep. If you're someone that needs eight
What Do You Do For A Crust: Mm.
Mark: hours a day, I don't think it's for you. Like I'm I average
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah, very fair.
Mark: I average five and a half to six hours sleep a day max. And I'm good. Like
What Do You Do For A Crust: Wow.
Mark: like so that's sort of the normal
What Do You Do For A Crust: I think a lot of people can't function on Yeah. I would assume a lot of people can't function
Mark: Yeah. Like I haven't
What Do You Do For A Crust: on on that minimal.
Mark: Well, I haven't had a sleep today and I've been up since two AM. So what is it now? Nine. So I'm I'm like I'm all good. So yeah. But
What Do You Do For A Crust: Jesus Bloody Hell I mean what do you do in your days off mate? Is it just like you just sleep for twelve hours straight?
Mark: No, not really. Like typically so like tomorrow is my last day for this week and then I'll have I have a three day break because I do a six four roster. so I'll have Thursday, Friday, Saturday off. And tomorrow I'll probably be up till midnight or something like that and then sort of just chill out, have a little get up at six o'clock on my day off, make sure I don't sleep in too much. You don't want to like get in the habit of having a huge sleep and then needing to rely on it. You just sort of gotta keep the rhythm and you just
What Do You Do For A Crust: Mm.
Mark: keep going. So like days off, you know, it's the same as everyone else. Yard work, renovations, go to the beach, do what you know, all the normal.
What Do You Do For A Crust: I I'm guessing it's a bit of life goes on kind of thing, so you've just gotta keep you know, you've gotta get done what you've gotta get done.
Mark: Yeah, you just gotta keep going.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Jeez. I mean I I have absolutely a lot of respect for you 'cause yeah, it doesn't sound like a particularly easy job. I'm expecting that you're you know, you're on your feet the whole time, you're constantly moving, you're having to do things, you've got to be aware 'cause you've got, you
Mark: Yeah. So
What Do You Do For A Crust: know, machinery, you you've got ovens. Have you got some gnarly burns? I thought you might.
Mark: No, I'm I'm good. Nothing.
What Do You Do For A Crust: No? Okay.
Mark: Yeah. I th I think not over the years, yes, but currently not I don't have one. But it's you know, I've been doing it
What Do You Do For A Crust: Okay.
Mark: for so long now. If I was burning if I was burning myself every week I'd have to question myself, right?
What Do You Do For A Crust: That's very fair. you talked about one of the key things about being a baker is you know, someone being able to operate on probably minimal sleep. Are there other key attributes or skills that someone should have in regards to, you know, being a successful baker, you know, pushing through the the tiredness or, you know, being able to follow a recipe to the tea or
Mark: I think yeah, so it's not on the supermarket side of things it's not as crucial, but good math is important in the like when you get into the smaller independent bakeries and stuff like that, like working out your recipes and ratios and following those is really important. But us in the supermarket world we use a pre mix. So we basically just add water and yeast and we're off and rolling. But Yeah, I think math is important and time management. You really need to
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah.
Mark: really mentally plan your day as you're producing because you don't want to like there's usually two people in the bakery, you don't want to overload the second worker with too much for them to put through the oven and then produce a bad product because of that. So like I run the bench, so
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah. I mean that very fair.
Mark: like I'm so
What Do You Do For A Crust: What's what's running the bench? Can you explain that to us?
Mark: So that's the lead baker. So that is the person mixing the doughs and producing the actual bread. And then we typically have an ovens person who they put it through the oven when when they arrive. And there's usually a like a three
What Do You Do For A Crust: Claro.
Mark: hour stagger between those two shifts. So like the first three hours I'm solo.
What Do You Do For A Crust: So it sounds like a it can be a little bit lonely at the start as well. Like not you know, not that saying you need someone there, but i if it's just you.
Mark: Yeah, yeah. It I guess if you Yeah, if you need to be around people, again, probably not that's maybe that's a con for some people, but I like my quiet time. I get a lot more done when I'm by myself.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Fair very fair indeed. What what kind of growth opportunities
Mark: So Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: what kind of growth opportunities does someone have, you know, in the baking industry when it comes to, you know, that you said head baker and such. Can you explain to us kind of the pathway?
Mark: Yeah. So I'll just speak from supermarket terms because that's my
What Do You Do For A Crust: Sure.
Mark: most familiar, but so you come in as an apprentice and you make your way up to the lead baker, which is my position. Now once you're qualified, there's no pay difference with Coles. It's we're on a award wage or an agreement and it's all the same. So
What Do You Do For A Crust: Mm-hmm.
Mark: I'm happy to share that. That's thirty dollars. It's about thirty one dollars or something like that. Like somewhere around there, base rate. So and from there you earn your penalty rate.
What Do You Do For A Crust: So I think like pr pretty Okay. 'Cause it can be I'm assuming it could be quite lucrative given you're doing shift work. And you said before it's a six by four, like six six sorry, a six and three? Okay.
Mark: Yeah, so I do it I do a six by four. So six and four. So one week I have Friday off and the other week I have Thursday, Friday, Saturday off. So
What Do You Do For A Crust: okay. I'm with you.
Mark: Yeah, yeah. And then my roster
What Do You Do For A Crust: All right.
Mark: my roster's a bit weird because I I do longer shifts on the weekends and short shifts during the week. So it's just to get the penalty rates up a bit really for
What Do You Do For A Crust: Got it.
Mark: me. But yeah, so you're looking When you take the penalty rates into it, you're about thirty five dollars now.
What Do You Do For A Crust: And I'm just thinking about what a sanded day is. If you're prepping the dough and that ready for the second person who's doing the the the oven
Mark: Mm-hmm.
What Do You Do For A Crust: sorry mate, we might be are we still got ya?
Mark: Yeah. Try again. Yeah, still got me.
What Do You Do For A Crust: I think we've still got ya. It it might it might be my tech, mate, so I'm really sorry. Still got ya. I was just curious, if you're doing head baking
Mark: That's right.
What Do You Do For A Crust: and you're dealing with the half the ton of the of like the dough and such, are you weighing it out based on loaf, based on rolls and all that, Howard, or is it just purely like muscle memory?
Mark: so we have machinery to help. So I would arrive and I would start with by mixing basically fifty kilos of flour and thirty kilos of water, so I'd get eighty kilos of dough, right? Now out of that I
What Do You Do For A Crust: Jesus.
Mark: will produce I will produce the first hundred loaves of bread, essentially. So you know, we you cut it's called a D twenty, so it goes into Like a big press and in that press it's it's got like it divides the dough into twenty even pieces. So we put sixteen kilos in. Well d I'll make an easy one. You put twenty kilos in,
What Do You Do For A Crust: Okay.
Mark: you close the lid, it cuts it into ten individual one kilo chunks. Yeah, round yeah, because and then we use that.
What Do You Do For A Crust: I was gonna say round numbers. okay, I'm with you. we like round numbers.
Mark: Yeah, that's I made it yeah. 'Cause normally we go sixteen kilos in, eight hundred grams out, and then you put three of those to give you together, gives you a a head for a roll, which is that's a separate thing. But anyway, we won't go there. It's just a lot of it's a lot of little bit of math. Like once you get used
What Do You Do For A Crust: Do you have a do you have a favourite thing to bake?
Mark: to it, you favorite bike. sorta sorta gone away a little bit over the years, but I still like French sticks and Vienna's like
What Do You Do For A Crust: Okay. Mm.
Mark: Like the just baking that sort of bread is nice. But I mean, the problem is the supermarket will destroy your creative side for baking. Like is a negative
What Do You Do For A Crust: Mm.
Mark: for it because it is you know, we have I've had lead management, I'm talking store managers and above, tell me they want quant quantity, not quality. And you know.
What Do You Do For A Crust: That's a shame.
Mark: There's not much you can do. You you're limit you're very you're very limited on time. Like that's a I work in one of the biggest busiest bakeries in my region. And yeah, we produce two X, what all the other bakeries in the region do. So it can be quite challenging. You know, I need to move like that eighty kilos of dough per hour and not stop the whole day. So I mean it doesn't sound like much like eighty kilos, but
What Do You Do For A Crust: Jesus. I mean it's
Mark: it's it's a lot.
What Do You Do For A Crust: No, but when you're doing it all day, I can, you know, I sit and I think w I used to be a
Mark: Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: trading mate and I think about you know, a twenty kilo bag of concrete moving that back and forth. It takes its toll and that's twenty kilos, let
Mark: Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: alone eighty.
Mark: Yeah. And I mean, yeah. It's just it is what it is. It's not
What Do You Do For A Crust: It it must be a a bit of a challenge I guess 'cause it's it's all about the quota. Yeah.
Mark: Yeah. I mean that's the difference. And that's why I say, you know, I can't stress enough supermarket side of things. Some things I'll say that bakers will literally turn over. Like they you know, there's we don't rest we don't rest our doughs. There's no you know, you see all these videos of bakers on YouTube and whatever doing all this fancy stuff. It's in it's nothing like that. We are bulk Bulk bread quickly.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah, I
Mark: That's it.
What Do You Do For A Crust: but that's there's no hiding that. There's no hidden secret like the people I would assume presume that that's the case and
Mark: No, there's no it and it's fine, like you know, you know, for
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah. And it's still delicious.
Mark: For your general Yeah, it's fine. But it's just not you know, there's nothing to be super excited on my side. You know, you guys might see it and think, wow, that looks really good, but we know. The bakers know that it's not.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Hmm. Do you get in the perks for the job? Do you get to take some loaves home or something like that? Surely. Really?
Mark: Nothing. Nope. Nope. independence, definitely. That's a yeah. When you work in an independent absolutely, but a supermarket, no, not at all.
What Do You Do For A Crust: I I sit there and I I wonder like I would have assumed there would have been good perks, I guess, mate, you know, that you're getting to you know, you're making certain things and you get to, you know, we made one too many or
Mark: Yeah nah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: but is it all is everything down to a fine minute, like no wastage
Mark: it's not like grey area, technically, you know, if something went missing no one's gonna notice. Like, you know, if you had a snack,
What Do You Do For A Crust: Mm.
Mark: you're fine. But officially there's not allowed to touch it. They'd rather throw it in the bin.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah, okay.
Mark: And we we throw out a lot daily.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Which I th I think is mad, th you know, throwing it away. Ugh, see like give it away or you know what I mean? Like I and I get there's there's health and safety and I can only imagine the food safety prep that you've got to go through as well and the and the
Mark: Yeah. Yeah, there's well I think
What Do You Do For A Crust: cleaning of everything.
Mark: Yeah, that's yeah. Cleaning is a lot. But we the company I work for, it does it does some charity stuff with some a small portion of the bread that's left over and the rest of it goes to a farmer and he feeds some pigs, I think, or something like that. I don't know. So but apart from that.
What Do You Do For A Crust: are you sick of dough?
Mark: yeah, absolutely. It's been a long time. I think I'm almost at
What Do You Do For A Crust: So I'm assuming I'm assuming you don't do toast or anything like that.
Mark: look, you know, I buy tip top bread. I'm like just sorta I'm at the point where it's it serves a function now, I'm not really chasing it.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Hmm. Do you bake things at home? Do you still have that passion to to you know to bake or create at home? You know, that like your
Mark: Every now
What Do You Do For A Crust: your daughter's birthday cakes?
Mark: Yeah, so I don't do the cakes, I leave that to my wife 'cause she's very good at them. but I don't bake at home I never baked at home until my girls started to want to. And so I baked like my first loaf of bread at home ever this year with my daughter. So
What Do You Do For A Crust: That's lovely though. That's really nice. I mean you're probably like, ugh, another loaf, but that's that's that's quite sweet, yeah.
Mark: Yeah, yeah. So that's nice, but it's No, it's it's different. It's different though, so But yeah. Apart from that, yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Very fair. Can I ask you, it's a bit of a pointy question, so I I do apologize and and feel free not to answer if if it's a bit pointy, but I know the there's a lot of talk around, you know, supermarkets and how they set their prices for things and you know, you'll see a loaf of bread is like a dollar fifty or something like
Mark: Mm-hmm.
What Do You Do For A Crust: that and Can I ask you, does that does that bother you? Because I sit and I I would think, you know, your blood, sweat and tears, your hard work, your 3 a.m. starts, the you know, not being on your feet for eight hours and and whatnot, and they're selling a loaf of bread for a buck fifty. It seems, you know, like supermarkets
Mark: I
What Do You Do For A Crust: i i in order for them to provide that cheap, it just seems a bit cheeky.
Mark: Yeah, see they still make money on it, so I don't really
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah.
Mark: I don't have a problem. I think if anything, I think they're too expensive. So
What Do You Do For A Crust: Really?
Mark: I think Yeah, I would say that the like in in house bread that we make is priced a little high. Like because they'd be paying
What Do You Do For A Crust: Mm, okay.
Mark: like five dollars for the flour to make thirty loaves, you know.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah, okay. So a decent mark
Mark: said like it's not
What Do You Do For A Crust: up.
Mark: Yeah, so I know that obviously there's everything that goes
What Do You Do For A Crust: Mm.
Mark: into it. Insurance, marketing, all the stuff. Obviously there's you know, all those costs. But I mean if they were paying more than thirty cents to make a loaf of bread, I'd be surprised. Even with all the factors in there.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah, okay. I mean it is a it is a business, you know, we we get that. It's it's I guess the aspect
Mark: Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: of of what it looks like. Can I ask you, Mark,
Mark: Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: what is what's a typical day look like? Can you walk us through from start to finish what is what a sort of typical day looks like? I just want to get a gist for the listeners out there about actually how
Mark: Yep.
What Do You Do For A Crust: hard bakers do work.
Mark: Yeah, okay, so out of bed at two AM for me. So
What Do You Do For A Crust: Mm.
Mark: my day I'll go start to finish. Out of bed, two AM, arrive at bakery at about two thirty. straight in, ovens on, and I start moving rolls through. And then it'll be mixing dough. And I will not so if I let's say we'll just call it three AM start. And I will not take a break until about 9 30. It will be constant. So it'll be
What Do You Do For A Crust: Jesus.
Mark: six hours, six and a half hours of nonstop. Like it does not stop. And whether I'm you know, the first three hours I'm solo, so I'm mixing doughs, making the product, pulling the ovens, and packaging some of the smaller things to help the other staff out that I'm working with. So, you know, you can be you know, average day is like twelve thousand steps minimum. So
What Do You Do For A Crust: Change.
Mark: twelve to fifteen thousand steps is a standard sort of day in the bakery.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah, I mean that's a hell of a lot. You're thinking about like you know,
Mark: Like that's a small day, so
What Do You Do For A Crust: the average the average office worker does like twelve hundred your times tening it. Jeez, okay. So then I'm assuming you then get a break.
Mark: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's well out there. And
What Do You Do For A Crust: So then you get a you get a break after your six six and a half hours, depending on
Mark: Yeah, so I So it's a bit of a thing in bakery is we tend to take all our breaks at the end. So I just finish my shift and then I take my lunch break at the end of my shift and sign off and go home. So because
What Do You Do For A Crust: Ha ha ha.
Mark: there's a I know that's not, you know, I don't want to go down the health and safety path. I've done that before. That's previous job. but you know For the benefit of the bakery, because if you stop mid shift, you lose half an hour, like forty minutes easily. Like and that's not including the break time. So to have the product out early enough, because we have a we have a time in the morning that we have to have every product on display, and that's about ten AM. I mean, we I get that every day easily, but You know, for some guys they really struggle. They take their breaks and then, you know, they might not get a whole meal out of the oven until nine o'clock and then, you know, you've missed two hours of trade where you could have sold that bread. Like so taking the break is r not
What Do You Do For A Crust: Interesting. Wow. It sounds I mean it I can unders I can understand the justification of taking the break afterwards because you've got that ten AM deadline I guess,
Mark: Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: but geez, that shouldn't be at the detriment of of you guys and actually getting just to sit for a second and you know.
Mark: No, it's and I will say I would say, you know, I'm I'm a bit different. I'm a bit old school. I was taught by old bakers. I was, you know, grew up, you just get it done. But, you know, the other guys,
What Do You Do For A Crust: Let's push the ring.
Mark: they take their breaks and I people should. Like I preach to it, you know,
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah.
Mark: all the packers and all the other staff. I said, If you need your break, go take it. Like you really need to make sure, you know There's no reason to. You just go take it. But I'm I like to just finish.
What Do You Do For A Crust: I can see the appeal that you've got, you know, like you've you've then got you're getting kind of an extra half an hour back in your day. If you can push through and persevere, you know, the reward at the end is pretty good.
Mark: Yeah, like I I use that I go do you know, I might I might go do my groceries or duck off to Bunnings or something and grab whatever I need and then come back and sign off. It's not really you know, it's a bit different.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Fair, I mean very fair. Do you have quotas? Like do the
Mark: But yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: do those quotas change based on season? So as in like d you know, do you have to get
Mark: Sorry, repeat that again.
What Do You Do For A Crust: you know how you said you've got to get, you know, certain things out by, you know, say ten o'clock or you know, so they can be on on shelf ready for sale. D do those numbers change
Mark: Yep. Yep.
What Do You Do For A Crust: throughout the year? Like, you know, winter people buy more bread or, you know, buy more this and season, hot cross buns?
Mark: Yeah, so that it it changes daily.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Okay. Daily.
Mark: Yep. Okay. So yeah, those change we have a daily. We have a production sheet we have to follow. And it's basically ten pages of products. And each one of those products changes between, you know, maybe one day we make forty packets of hot dog rolls, the next day we make thirty-five, fifty, sixty, you know, as the week goes on, you know, obviously Friday, Saturday, Sunday are gonna be busier, Monday. You know, you get the people coming in after the weekend after, you know, start with their school lunches, so there might be some more bread on Monday. It's yeah, it changes daily. And it's all used to be a lot more manual, but it's a lot more AI driven now by the software. It just sort of changes whatever they want.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Okay. What's the what's usually
Mark: But but yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: the biggest seller?
Mark: it's just soft round rolls. Six pack soft round.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Really? Just just classic cargaron.
Mark: So yeah. Plain white sick fact soft rolls. We sell on a Sunday to it.
What Do You Do For A Crust: We're such a basic Australia's such a
Mark: Yeah, so basic. It's like we
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah.
Mark: sell two hundred packets of those on a Saturday, a Sunday. And like yeah, we can't even sell ten packets a whole meal. It's
What Do You Do For A Crust: Jesus. I just keep thinking of like my my old man, my dad is just like, no, I'll only eat white bread, white plain rolls, like just very I'm not eating anything
Mark: Yeah. Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: with seeds in it, you know, nothing healthy or even slightly healthy. and you just can't go past a good
Mark: Yeah. Like there's
What Do You Do For A Crust: a good plain roll.
Mark: Yeah, the variety stuff makes up maybe twenty percent of my f production. The rest of it is all white.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Well
Mark: So the seeded and that goes for like the low GI white or like carb stuff, the lower GI stuff, whatever
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah, okay.
Mark: they call it. And you know.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Have there have there been any like large industry changes in the last couple of years? the reason I ask is because there's always, you know, particularly being in a supermarket, you're you I know that there's usually a lot more, I guess, you know, social standards and government, you know, standards and such that, you know, and laws and legislation
Mark: Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: that constraint things. Is there always big changes within or is it pretty pretty similar?
Mark: It's been pretty similar the last ten years. Like I've been back ten years now this time. Well, like ten years is next year. So nine years, sorry. And it hasn't changed much. I mean we did the whole COVID thing. That was insane, obviously.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah.
Mark: And then apart from that, you know, it's nothing's really at our level. I mean, we get a little bit of where I work, we used to make a lot more stuff. I mean if you go right back like the supermarkets used to make a lot more product on site. Now it's all just sort of brought in. Like there's a lot more just brought in stuff. But you know, there's nothing really
What Do You Do For A Crust: It's a shame really. I'd I love that there's the bakery. sorry.
Mark: Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah. I
Mark: Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: sorry mate, I didn't mean to cut you up cut you off. I love you know, I remember being a trade and going into Coles or Woolies or one of the, you big supermarket chains. We've got Drake's here and SA and y you know, you go into any of them, you know, seven AM to get a you know, an iced coffee and you know, as the smell of the bakery would just be intoxicating. I think, you know, I haven't met a single person on this planet who doesn't like the smell of baked bread. It's a lovely
Mark: Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: thing.
Mark: Yeah, it's it's not the worst. So
What Do You Do For A Crust: That's true. That's true. Can I ask you
Mark: Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: if there's anyone out there listening to this episode and you know that hopefully they've learned a little bit about being a baker and, you know, specifically maybe a baker in a supermarket, would you give them any advice?
Mark: if you were fresh coming into the supermarket world, there's a a short course they offer now and it's called a skilled baker or something similar. It depends which option you go. And I think it's if you're only gonna be in a supermarket world though, because it essentially cuts your training down to six weeks and you'll be on fifty cents less than the qualified. And then you've got enough. You can work on the skills from then. You don't have to go through the three, four years of apprenticeship wages. I I've done the math. It takes a long time to make that money back if you like now that they're bringing this new thing in. Cause now they do It sort of killed the trade a little bit in a it's a sort of a sad thing, but I think if someone was coming in today, that would be my recommendation is to like especially if they were just trialing it in a supermarket. If you're going independent, do the apprenticeship, pay attention, listen to the old guys. They're not just being mean, like listen to them.
What Do You Do For A Crust: I think that's that's very sound advice. Very sound advice. Hmm. It's a it is a shame. It's a shame hearing
Mark: But apart from that.
What Do You Do For A Crust: that yeah, it's a shame hearing the, you know, the yes, they're fast tracking stuff, which I I could assume would have its own appeal, but we're
Mark: Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: losing that creativity, we're losing what makes the trade the trade, the
Mark: Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: the the role the role, you know, that learning and and
Mark: Absolutely.
What Do You Do For A Crust: you know, building up, which is which is a real shame.
Mark: Yeah. Yeah, I think if you
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah.
Mark: like if you really want if you're interested in bakery, you go independent, you go bake even baker's delight, Brumbies, whatever, any one of those, they will teach you a thousand more things than we'll ever teach you in a supermarket.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Would you ever make the shift yourself? Like what can I ask? Without me being too forward, I do apologise if that's a real forward question. It is a forward question, so I'm sorry.
Mark: it's it's the so no, it's fine. I think it's just in general the the money's slightly better on the supermarket side.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah. Fair. Yeah. Appreciate the honesty, mate. Yeah.
Mark: Like and it comes down to that for me, like a lot of a a lot of so I mean if you want to talk salary ranges, it's you know, you're in that seventy-five to eighty-five K is the standard. Like if you look at Seek and you know, you just search Baker, that's what you'll see. It'll be seventy-five, eighty, sometimes sixty, but I wouldn't touch that. me in my role, I cleared six figures last year.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah, well.
Mark: So I mean I did a lot of overtime. I I did a lot of overtime for it, but you know, I got I got the six figures and that's just in the supermarket. I don't know many other bakers that do. So
What Do You Do For A Crust: but that's that's good cheddar, absolutely, that's good money. You think about I'm assuming there's not
Mark: Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: as many opportunities to do over time in the smaller baker you know, bakery places or, you know, maybe the smaller shops and such that once they sell out, they sell out and that's it.
Mark: Well i it depend yeah. Yeah, that's it. It just depends. I mean it's a it's a lucky dip. Like you could go the bakery next door and they could be offering the world to you. You don't know. I mean, unless you ask, I guess is that's another
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah.
Mark: thing. Always open mind, go and ask. You know? Like I've I've fallen into the trap a little bit of maybe just got a little bit comfortable as well, and you know, maybe I should have asked some other places and branched out over the years and see where it took me, but I don't know. It's also nice. I can work thirty eight hours and go home. Yeah. Maybe.
What Do You Do For A Crust: No, you never know. You're you're still young, mate. I mean, I I gotta admit, it's a it's a very underrated very underrated avenue to have that, to say, yeah, I come in, I clock in, I do my work, I clock out, I go home, I don't have to think about shit. That's a that's a huge appeal that I don't think a lot of people really
Mark: Yeah. Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: understand until you're heavy into the workforce and you know you're ten od ten odd years at least. that you don't
Mark: Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: have to worry about, you know, that you don't have that anxiety when you're
Mark: Yeah, so
What Do You Do For A Crust: when you're at home.
Mark: Yeah. I had a break between baking in the middle there for six years where I was on call and your phone's always on and there's you know, any time, any
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah.
Mark: where you are, you have to respond is the job I had before. So but yeah, the bakeries it's kinda easy for me now.
What Do You Do For A Crust: I mean that's what that's what you want, isn't it? You know, work is not meant to you know, you hope it's not gonna be hard. It's meant to be something you enjoy, but obviously, you
Mark: Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: know, it it needs to be something that y it you're still able to do and you know, take satisfaction out of it. Would you ever make would you ever start your own bakery?
Mark: not now. I think I
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah.
Mark: should have in my younger years. I think now is a bit it's just a lot of capital. Like to set up a bakery,
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah.
Mark: you know, I like to I like to look at it, you know, take plumber, electrician, builder, all those sort of normal trades, right? You give them fifty thousand dollars, they could buy a second hand ute, a bunch of tools and be working that week. Right? That's
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah.
Mark: you know, maybe they don't have maybe they don't have a full set of fluke instruments or whatever. They don't have the bees knees, but they're operating. Bakery,
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah.
Mark: the mixer's twelve thousand dollars. That's one piece of equipment.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Jesus.
Mark: You need bricks you need bricks and mortar. Like you've got ovens, you know, they're I mean, yes, you can buy second hand and you can piece it together, but then you got maintenance cost it's just I don't know. Most secondhand bakeries are
What Do You Do For A Crust: So
Mark: north of one hundred eighty, two hundred K and it's just a lot.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah, plenty of it's a lot of work to start that as well, I can imagine. W
Mark: And like I've had friends Yeah, I've seen friends do well and do very badly through the bakery stuff. And I mean, you know, I think it's just obviously it all comes down to how much work you want to put in, how much risk you wanna take. I'm probably a little bit more cautious. I like to I like to know that my my mortgage is paid, my kids are fed and I'm fed, we're happy. That's it.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that, mate, at all. You've got you've got family to rely on, you've got family that relying on you, sorry, and that's that's very fair. You can always
Mark: Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: do a bit of a s a side hustle and, you know, do the baked baked bread in the, you know, farmers market on a Saturday morning or something like that. Could always be something. It's a lot of work though, I can understand that. Well, you do now with your girls, so you know. very fair, man, very fair.
Mark: Yeah. Yeah, but I don't I don't bake bread at home. Yeah. I mean you could. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know.
What Do You Do For A Crust: we Yeah. I mean it's it's a it's an interesting one. I'd I definitely respect you for your honesty to say, you know, I'm happy with what I've got, I'm happy with what it's doing. You know I I never knew a mix was twelve grand.
Mark: Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Holy shit, that's a lot of money, pardon my language, but that's a lot of coin for, you know, I'm
Mark: Yeah, that's
What Do You Do For A Crust: assuming one of the many tools that you need.
Mark: Yeah, that's just one component. So I I don't know the actual figure, but it would have to be north of a hundred grand to equip just the equipment. That's no fit out, that's no benches, that's just the equipment. Like and I mean
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah. Then I'm assuming you need you know, you need racks, baking trays, cleaning products, stores. Yeah.
Mark: Yeah, it's all of it. You know, like, you know, I see I see what my where I work for, what they pay for, you know, they pay a hundred dollars a tin. Like and that's through the supermarkets. So I can't imagine what it would be if you were buying s like if you were independent buying smaller quantities. I imagine that figure is maybe it's a hundred and fifty dollars a tin. And, you know, you need lots of them. Like it's you know
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah.
Mark: Thirty tins you know, thirty tins of rack or whatever, it's a lot.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah, very fair. Plus you need the you know, the the electricity around the ovens, you know, you need the space, like you said, you need brick and mortar, yeah.
Mark: Yeah, the electricity, water, fridges. Like it's just a lot.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah.
Mark: Packaging. And then obviously you need a team. I mean, you know.
What Do You Do For A Crust: And then you've got, you know, health and safety inspections and yeah. Yeah, it's a lot. Very fair.
Mark: Yeah. Like I never wanna like as a tradesman like I would never want to put anyone off doing it, you know. So if you're out there and you're thinking about doing it, go for it. Like, you know, you it's just not for me. Like, it's just not I just don't think I think it's a bit hard to compete as well. You know, we talked about pricing with the supermarkets and I said they're a bit expensive, but you know, I can't imagine trying to compete with them. Like
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah.
Mark: Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Well, I mean just the sheer amount that they can they purchase in bulk, you know, how can you cover the quantity that they're purchasing to get the same price? It's
Mark: Yeah. Yeah, they Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: just so hard. Yeah. Very fair. Very fair indeed.
Mark: Yeah, you would never. But
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah, it's a grim one. mate, I'm conscious of time.
Mark: Yeah, apart from that.
What Do You Do For A Crust: Not that I want to wrap you up, but I know obviously you are
Mark: Yeah, that's all right.
What Do You Do For A Crust: up you've been up for a long time. Jesus, you've been up for a long time. And then you're up again very soon as well.
Mark: Yeah, I'm all right.
What Do You Do For A Crust: My my last question, mate, is can I ask you, given
Mark: Yeah. Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: that you had a six hour break, sorry, six a six year gap and break and w on call and such, it sounds like you're you like w you know, and I'm I'm presuming a bit here, but you sounds like you like tough jobs because you're you know, you're constantly on call before for the last gig. This one is extremely difficult in regards to sleep
Mark: Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: patterns and such. Have you found the sleep pattern has affected you at all? You know, has it has it aged you more? Have you have you are you're a bit more irritable on certain days? Are you just sort of like, nah, this actually works for me? And that that's
Mark: I Yeah. Yeah, like you know, I think I mean this will sound fun. Once I start to dip below four hours sleep a day, I can be a little bit snappy. But
What Do You Do For A Crust: Yeah.
Mark: as long as I get that four hours ish, I'm good. Like, you know, I might get six hours on my day off or something.
What Do You Do For A Crust: I think if I did below seven, I'd turn into an absolute grouch. I'm I I've got to have
Mark: Yeah.
What Do You Do For A Crust: I have the utmost respect for you, mate, because that's that's a hard slog. You're working hard, physically demanding, time constraints, no break, and all on, you know, alternative hours to say the least. It's it's it's definitely not for the faint hearted. So I think that's that's probably a
Mark: Yeah. Yep. Yeah, and this is you know, I'm not I wouldn't
What Do You Do For A Crust: you go, you're up.
Mark: I wouldn't consider myself unique unique in this aspect either. I would say most of the bakers I work with over the years, you know, I've worked with hundreds of them and we're all pretty much the same. It's the same story if you talk to any of us. We all you know, going thirty hours a week is not uncommon. You know, if you want to go to that event that is on the weekend and you go and do that and then you just link work to work and it's just sorta normal.
What Do You Do For A Crust: I'm just saying to the listeners out there, when you are in the shopping centre next, when you're in the supermarket and you're getting a loaf of bread, you're getting some white rolls, whatever you're getting, I hope you take a minute to appreciate the baker that made that because God they they're doing it tough and and I think it's a lot of it's a great role and a very important role that we all love baked goods, but then often not a lot of recognition. We just, you know, we grab it off the shelf like it's nothing and probably not appreciate it. And, you know, farmers get a lot of a lot of comments and and social media about, you know, beef farmers and and dairy farmers and such, but bakers tend to get a little bit left in the dust, which is I think thinks a bit unfair. So I think we should we should honour
Mark: Yeah, it's okay.
What Do You Do For A Crust: and and appreciate that's for sure. mate, thank you so much for your time. Extremely appreciative. I really hope you you know you you finish up and you get some sleep. And and you know, thank you so much for all the work that you do.
Mark: Ha ha.
What Do You Do For A Crust: We really appreciate putting the loaves of bread on the table.
Mark: No worries. Thank you for having me, guys. It's been good.
What Do You Do For A Crust: It's been an absolute pleasure, mate. Very, very keen and and very much appreciative of your time and and unpacking, you know, the day to day of what a baker looks like. But yeah, cheers. Well thanks again.
