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As you soon will discover when you listen to this week’s episode, this episode with Lorna was recorded in September of 2022. As usual, we get to have a fun and inspiring conversation. Lorna Schultz Nicholson to date has published 49 books with more on the way. As you will hear, she believes that everyone has stories to tell. She has published books on various subjects including disabilities. A good portion of our episode discusses blindness, eyesight, and how the world views and/or should view people’s whose eyesight is less than most persons. Lorna provides some fascinating and valuable observations about this. Regular listeners to Unstoppable Mindset will hear some discussions touch on in previous episodes. However, Lorna’s ways of discussing issues and her personal insights are relevant and come strictly from her own observations. You can’t but be inspired and enthralled by all she has to say about writing and her life. About the Guest: Lorna Schultz Nicholson has published over 46 books with three more coming out in September 2022. Her books include children’s picture books, middle-grade fiction, YA fiction, and non-fiction. Although many of her books are about sports (not all mind you) they are also about family and friendships and include diverse casts of characters. Her books have been nominated for many different awards. Lorna loves traveling and presents about writing at libraries, schools, and conferences to inspire people to love reading and writing as much as she does. Lorna lives in Edmonton, Alberta with her husband (Go Oilers Go) and a dog that she rescued from Mexico. Ways to connect with Lorna: Website: www.lornaschultznicholson.com Facebook: Lorna Schultz Nicholson Instagram: Lornasn Twitter: Lornasn About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is an Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app. Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes
Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Well, hi there, wherever you happen to be today. This is Mike Hingson and you are listening to unstoppable mindset. Really glad you're here. We are going to have fun again today as usual, and get inspired and do all those things that we do on unstoppable mindset. And again, I really appreciate you being here and hope you enjoy what we have to talk about today. We have Lorna on with us. And I'm going to let her introduce herself pretty much except to tell you that she is an author who has written a whole bunch of books when I met her she had written 46 books. And since we last talked she said she was going to be publishing three more by September so one of course the big questions of the day is did you get to do that but first, learn a welcome to unstoppable mindset. Thanks for being here. Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 02:09 Thank you, Michael. Yes, it's Lorna Schultz Nicholson, and that is a long name three names and nobody ever spell Schultz. Right. That's okay. Michael Hingson ** 02:18 Well, how do you spell it? Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 02:20 S C H U L T Z, Michael Hingson ** 02:23 that's, that's the way I've always spelled it. Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 02:26 Good for you. Because you have no idea how many people either forget to see or they forget the the yell or the T at the end screen or? Michael Hingson ** 02:35 Or they make it or they make it an S instead of a Z? Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 02:38 Well, I think they get the Z right. Because of Charles Schultz. Right. They get that right. Because of the Michael Hingson ** 02:44 parents. Schultz from Hogan's Heroes. Yes, but Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 02:48 that's spelled the same way as mine. Michael Hingson ** 02:51 S C H U L T Z. Yeah, Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 02:53 exactly. Oh, yes. Zee, sir. In Canada, we say Zed Michael Hingson ** 02:58 was said Yeah, yeah, S C H U L T Zed. Well, it is a it is a British oriented or whatever thing or, or some sort of an empire thing. Yeah. That's it. Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 03:13 Coming to you from Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. That's the that's the other thing. I guess I'll say when I introduce myself, Michael Hingson ** 03:18 and of course, go Oilers. I know I saw that in your bio. Yes. And how and how did we do? Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 03:27 Well, the season I did fine. I've got those three books coming out. So I'm now on my 49 published book. And I do have a spring book in the docket. So it says it's a picture book. So that will be my 50th book in the spring. But right now I'm sitting at 49. Wow. 49th. One was just released today. Michael Hingson ** 03:49 And our hockey and how did our hockey season go? Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 03:55 Season was great. Last year. It hasn't started this year, they'll be starting their training camp right now. Players and training camp they will be starting up mid October sort of beginning of October, mid October, the first games will happen. They'll go into some preseason games here. You know, we all have to watch baseball for a little while. Because, of course they're wrapping up the end of their season. So we all get excited about that too to watch the World Series. Michael Hingson ** 04:24 And in addition to hockey and baseball, do you ever watch basketball? Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 04:28 I do actually because I'm a Toronto Raptors fans. So there you go. Okay. Yep, Yep, absolutely. I like watching basketball to Michael Hingson ** 04:37 football, and football. We love college football. And right now we're very happy because my wife Karen is a graduate of USC. Okay. And well, she did her graduate studies there and the team is doing really well this year. We have no major complaints. First time in a long time. So we're very pleased about that. Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 04:58 That's exciting. That's it. I think very exciting. There Michael Hingson ** 05:01 are three and oh, and all three games, they scored more than 40 points per game. Oh, Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 05:07 I have a brother in law who always fights with this USC and UCLA. There's always a big rivalry between those two, right? Oh, there is? Oh, yeah. Yeah, that happens in my family because they live down in California. So there's always this rivalry that goes on in the family between the two. And which one does he like? You know, that you knew you're gonna ask me that. And I think he's the UCLA. Michael Hingson ** 05:32 Well, you know, we we understand that there are those people in the world who who are less fortunate than we, and that's okay. Well, let's see. See, my story is that on the day, we got married, our wedding was supposed to start at four o'clock. And it didn't start until a quarter after four because at four, the church was less than half full. And at 12, after four, suddenly the doors opened, and this whole throng of people came in. And so we finally were able to start when we asked somebody later, what the heck was the deal? Why was everybody late getting there? And they said, No, nobody was late. They were sitting out in their cars waiting for the end of the USC Notre Dame game. So one that tells you where we were in the priority of things, but but SC want Notre Dame, so we knew the marriage was gonna last? Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 06:29 Oh, I love to hear that. That's a lovely story. That's a good story. Michael Hingson ** 06:33 Well, tell us a little bit about you kind of where you came from your life, your life a little bit, and we'll go from there. Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 06:40 Well, um, I actually grew up in Ontario, St. Catharines, Ontario, which is really, really close to Niagara Falls, and Niagara Falls, New York, Niagara Falls, Canada. And then I did a lot of moving around and all that, you know, that we all do, and going to university and that kind of thing. And I wasn't always a writer. I mean, you know, I should go back and say that that's not exactly true. But I didn't always think that I was going to be a writer, like, I never grew up thinking that I was going to be an author, like I have some friends off their friends who grew up saying, I knew I was going to be an author, I wanted to be a writer, I wanted to do that when I was little. And I didn't have that. I wanted to be an athlete. Like, if you had asked me when I was a child, they'd say what you want to be when you grew up, I'd say an athlete, my mom and dad would say, because in my era, of course, my parents said, that's not really a profession, you can relate to that. So you know, I went into other things that had to do with sports, like I got a science degree in kinesiology and, you know, worked in the fitness industry. And then when my children were little I came, I decided to take a writing course. And I, I discovered how much I loved writing. And then it brought me back to my childhood, of how much I love to read, and how I love to write stories when I was a kid, that I just never pursued the writing Avenue, but I did actually love writing stories. So it was a bit of a full circle for me, and it didn't happen. You know, in my 20s, I didn't get my first book published until I was in my 40s. And I worked really hard in those late 30s. After that course, I sort of got like, jazzed up. And I, I wanted to write and I wanted to be a writer, and I wanted to be published. And of course, that takes years to happen, you know, you have to keep trying and trying and trying, and keep submitting and keep writing another story. And then finally, I got a book published in 2004. So I mean, I was in my early 40s, when that actually happened. And so for anybody who's listening out there, who wants to write and you think, Well, I didn't do this in my 20s, and I didn't go to university for it, and I didn't get an English degree. You know, you can keep trying, just keep trying. Michael Hingson ** 09:02 Well, it's always about trying and I and I take the tact also that if you don't happen to want to write a book or whatever, you do, at least have stories to tell. Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 09:13 Everybody has a story to tell everybody who and I and I do a lot of writing classes as well. I teach a lot of writing classes I teach a lot to kids, like because I I write mostly children's I do write some adult but I write a lot of children's literature. And so I'm often in schools, you know, or workshops, writing workshops for children and, and you know, they're keen keen writers or they're not But and if they're not, I like to tell everybody you have a story to tell everybody has a story to tell. And out in the world. There are lots of stories. So I think that that's the most important part about writing is the story part of it. Michael Hingson ** 09:53 One of the things that I find and I love to tell people is if you Don't think that you would be a good guest on the podcast because you don't necessarily talk about whatever our mission is. What I tell people as well, our mission is to inspire people more than anything else. We do talk about disabilities, we do talk about inclusion, and of course, being blind and wanting to get people to have a little bit different view of what blindness and disabilities are all about. I'm always glad to do that. But at the same time, the general purpose of this podcast is really to show people that can be more unstoppable than they think. And so as I go out, and I look for guests, and we searched in a number of different ways, but people often say, Well, I don't know that I would really be good for your mission. And then I say, well, but our mission is to inspire. But I don't really know what to talk about. And I say the same thing that you just said, everyone has a story to tell. And so my job is to help people really find or remember what their story is, and talk about it. And there's no formal way or anything else to do that. It's more an issue of you have a story and we want to hear it. Yeah, I Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 11:09 agree with you. I do think that people, everybody has a story. And I mean, Michael, you have a story, because were you blind at birth? Yes. Yes. Okay, so you have a story. And, and you're doing a great job with this podcast by getting people you know, to tell their unstoppable story, but also to inspire people to do other things. And, and I do write a lot about different disabilities I, I am I have a series that I've written that's called the One to One series, a book has just been published in the series, it's called behind the label. And in that series, I've looked at first book had a character with autism, high functioning autism, the second book was a character that was born with Down syndrome, I have featured fetal alcohol spectrum disorder in it. And I think it's really important that, you know, I'm going to say, behind the label is the latest book that came out, but that we do look behind that label too. So we look behind your label of your disability of being blind. And then we find your your true story and, and how you can help others as well. You know, maybe maybe go through what they're going through. Michael Hingson ** 12:28 Of course, one of the things that I have pointed out a number of times on this podcast, and I love to tell people is if we're going to really talk about people with disabilities, then we really have to recognize that everyone has a disability specifically for most of you, your disability is that you are light dependent, you don't do well if the lights aren't on. And electric lighting is a relatively new invention, it came around in the mid 1800s. But the reality is, you guys don't do well, without lights. And in the workplace. Companies and builders provide lights and the ceilings and all sorts of lights so people can see to get around and so on. But that's your problem. And not mine. I don't happen to have that disability. And we need to recognize that everyone does have a challenge people take it for granted. Well, I'm not really disabled, because I can get around. Yeah, let's see how you do in a dark room. And let's see how well you read in a dark room. Or let's see how well you function in other ways when lighting conditions aren't great, because we're always looking for the best lighting conditions. So the reality is we all have disabilities. And we should recognize that. So we don't try to say that we're better because we're not of the of the scope where our disability if you want to call it that is really less than yours, because it's not there. We all have them. And it's an equalizing thing, I think among all of us in society in general. Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 13:59 I totally agree with that. And that's a very, very interesting concept. I never, you know, thank you for saying that, because I never really thought of it that way. Like, I'm thinking now of course, when I turned my computer on the first thing I thought of was, oh, no, I forgot my, my ring light in. in Penticton. I have I have a summer place that I go to by the lake. And so I was coming back yesterday, I drove back yesterday and I forgot my ring light. My ring light is there. I'm thinking I don't have my ring light. Oh my goodness. So that's not something that you even thought of before this podcast, you didn't think to yourself, oh, gosh, I don't have my ring light. You didn't think of that. And that's that's very, very interesting for you to say that. And I thank you for that. Because I think that that's that's something that you know, we people who have our vision, we don't even think about and it's true. We don't know how to walk in the dark. We don't know how to turn off our Lights and feel around and try to find our way to our bed. Like, you know, we keep our little nightlight on so that we can get there. So that's a really interesting, a really interesting comment. And I do agree with that, that I think that the more that we we look at the world as a whole, and look at all the individuals who are in our world, and look at the fact that we are each and every one of us different. And I'm not sure why, why we have to put everybody into into sort of so many boxes, like why can't we all just live together and sort of understand that we're all different. And we all have a different makeup, like even identical twins are different. Sure, they have small differences. And they, you know, they're not, they're not exactly the same in their personalities. Michael Hingson ** 15:57 So maybe we should work together and write a book, or you write a book, and I'm glad to help on blindness. And we bring out some of these concepts that might be kind of fun to explore. Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 16:09 Very fun to explore. I mean, a friend of mine actually did write one where she had a visually impaired runner, and you know how they're then they tether them together. And I was just watching that running race the other day with this gal who was just running like the wind. And she was she had a runner beside her. And she was visually impaired. And it was really incredible. I was just like, wow, that's that's impressive. That's good, really good. Michael Hingson ** 16:37 But of course, the question is, why should it be viewed as being so incredible? And the answer is, of course, most people can't imagine doing it without eyesight. And the reality is eyesight has not a lot to do with it. If you look at it a different way. It's all about information gathering and having the information that you need. And certainly eyesight is one way to get information. But it's by no means the only way that we get data. And nor should it be the only way we get data. And the difficulty is that so often, people who can see really think is the only real game in town. And oh, for a number of years, the Gallup polling organization, classified blindness specifically, is one of the top five fears that people felt they faced. And it shouldn't be that way. But we really don't look at the reality that blindness isn't the problem. It's our perceptions. And there are a lot of ways to get information, far and away, even in some sense of superior to eyesight, but we just don't look at it that way. Because we're used to seeing and we think that's the only way to do it. Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 17:55 Do you think that your other senses have been heightened? That perhaps I mean, we are very people that have eyesight are very visual, like visual, the won't be the word for it. That's probably their top choice. Michael Hingson ** 18:14 Because that's what they're used to. I do not think that senses are heightened simply because we don't see, I think they're heightened if we use them. That's why some of the examples that I use are military teams like SEAL Team Six, or any of the high functioning very specialized military teams that have learned to use their eyesight they see better than anyone else, because they've learned to use that sight. They've learned to process the information more effectively, because of what they see. But they've also learned to use their other senses. And so those senses are also heightened because they've learned to use them. And so the result is that they're not heightened simply because you lose one or not. They're heightened because you make use of them. And you recognize that they are as valuable, as eyesight, for getting as much information about your environment or whatever it is that you need to deal with. Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 19:22 So it's kind of like, in a way, people that have vision are a bit lazy with their other senses. We could You could say that we allow our vision to be our strong strong sense. It's like you know, in your body like if you work out your you know, your your hamstrings and your glutes, you always use your quads you don't necessarily you know, there's certain muscle groups that take over so maybe we just let our vision take over and we become a bit lazy and we don't use all our senses and you know, getting Back To Me teaching classes. This is one of the things that I try to teach students is that use all your senses when you're writing, because it's very, very easy as a writer to just write with the visual. And so you write what somebody looks like you write that they were this, they were that they did this, they, you know, it's all visual. And I try to tell students and I try to do it with my own writing, sometimes I'll write something and then I'll take a look at it. And I'll say, well, Lorna, you didn't use your senses in this. Now, how can you add this in? What did the person smell when they walked in? Did a feather you know, did they walk into a barn and a feather hit their nose, and then they sneezed. So what was the sense of touch? So, and hearing, I mean, it's all really important to put those senses in, in writing, it's super important. And it is very, very easy just to write with the visual, and a lot of kids will do that. So then it's up to me to say, You know what, let's look at everything else here. Let's look at all your other senses when you're writing this. So that's something that's interesting, too, is that I think that it's even more important. Now that I've chatted with you. I'm thinking wow, like, this is really interesting. I mean, this is, this is something that, you know, I, you know, I can talk to kids about that we need to do this more. Michael Hingson ** 21:28 Well, the issue is that, of course, your expertise is in eyesight. And that's why I suggested we ought to explore doing a book. And that's something that we can talk about, but but the reality is your expertise is in eyesight, you can gain more expertise in other senses. But the odds are because the world has been shaped around eyesight, that's what you're going to use. And I appreciate that, and understand that. And we love you anyway. But thank you, but but the bottom line is, it is the way the world is shaped. And and so as a result, we don't really look at our other senses in the way that we can. Which isn't to say that if you're writing a book about a blind person that you so emphasize the other senses that you don't talk in the vernacular that people are used to. So for example, I watch TV, I go to watch and see movies. And the reason that I say that is not because of an eyesight issue, but rather, the Webster's Dictionary defined, see in one of his definitions as to perceive. So why shouldn't I use See, as well as anyone else does, we've got to get away from the concept that that's the only game in town that is eyesight, which and I don't know whether you've read my book, Thunder dog, which is a book that we wrote about not only me growing up as a blind person, but my story of being involved in the World Trade Center on September 11 2001. But in center dog, one of the things that I say is don't let your sight get in the way of your vision. And it's absolutely important that people start to realize that because we talk about vision, I think I've got tons of vision, I just don't see so good as I love to say to people, but vision is there. And I don't object to people using the word vision relating to eyesight, but it is not the only way and not the only definition of the word. Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 23:32 I really liked that comment. Don't let it don't let your sight get in the way of your vision. Michael Hingson ** 23:38 Don't let your sight get in the way of your vision. Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 23:42 That's it. That's a very, very good comment. That's, that's a good line. That's a very good one. Um, no, I haven't read your book. But now I'm going to I hope you will. Yeah, for sure. Like Michael Hingson ** 23:51 it sounds really interesting. And it was a it was a number one New York Times bestseller. He brags and, you know, but it it is intended to teach people more about blindness of blind people, and I hope you and others who haven't read it will read it. Also being a poor, starving author, you know, we need people to buy books anyway. So it's important, but But here's another one. And then we I've got lots of questions for you. But here's another one. People say that I and other people who happen to be blind or visually impaired, look at the wording visually impaired. Now the last time I checked when you talk about something visual, and you talk about something that's visually oriented, it's about how it looks. And I don't think that I'm impaired simply because I'm blind from a visual standpoint. I don't even like low vision, because then you're still making it all about degrees of eyesight. I think that the fact is that low vision is probably better than certainly a lot better than visually impaired or Vision Impaired because again, I think I've got lots of vision and to say that we're impaired with our vision or our eyesight is really a serious problem because you're still then promulgating the class difference between people who happen to be blind or who don't see, as well as most people, and people who have better eyesight. So blind and low vision is probably at this point, the best that we can do. It's sort of like deaf and hard of hearing. If you say to most Deaf people, you are hearing impaired, you're apt to be executed on the spot because they recognize the value of words. Lorna Schultz Nicholson 25:38 Right. So what what are the words that we should use? Michael Hingson ** 25:42 I would say right now the best words that I can give you are blind and visit low, low vision. Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 25:48 Okay. Okay. I mean, because you know, what, sometimes we don't know sometimes. I don't know what I'm supposed to say. And, and the last thing that I want to do is say the wrong thing. But but you know, I mean, things go out there. And, and we're told, you know, you can't say that. So it is nice to hear it from you, that this is what, you know, what we what we should say, and well, vision. And Michael Hingson ** 26:19 the other part about it is, of course, what you're welcome. But the other part about it is you can't say that, you know, that concept and that comment is a problem. The fact that we worry so much about political correctness is is a problem. I think that, that if somebody says that I'm visually impaired, I'm not going to get too offended by that. But I am going to try to correct the concepts that No, I don't think I'm visually impaired, don't I look the same as most anyone else. You go back and look at what visually means. And I don't think that I'm more any more visually impaired than you are. But I happen to be blind or I can be considered low vision. But even most low vision, people really ought to look at themselves as blind. And what do I mean by that? I subscribe to a different definition of blindness that Kenneth's Jernigan, a past president of the National Federation of the Blind created. And his definition was you are blind if your eyesight has decreased to the point where you have to use alternatives to full eyesight in order to accomplish tasks. So if you've got to use large print, or a closed circuit television or a magnifier, the odds are you will probably lose more, if not all of your eyesight at some point in your life. So now is the time to start to learn blindness techniques and to accept the fact that blindness isn't the problem. And that you can function as a blind person, in a world where most people don't happen to be blind. And if we would start to do that, we would learn that blindness, again, isn't really the issue that we face. It's more of the misconceptions that people have Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 28:04 very interesting. And I mean, I think there are a lot of misconceptions with everything. I mean, you know, every single difference in somebody, often there are misconceptions about it. And and I think that, you know, sometimes when I was writing, I remember writing the book about autism, that I had a character that had autism and high functioning autism, and I, I remember being in a lineup in the grocery store, and all of a sudden, I thought somebody was in front of me. And then I thought, you know, what, maybe, you know, I don't want to be impatient here. Because it's that person may be, you know, their name may have maybe they do have autism, or maybe they do have something that is just creating them to be a little slower is that my, that's not my deal. That's who they are. And I should respect who they are. And I think that that's really important in our world is that we just respect who everybody is, and what everybody is all about. And look for the insight of the person instead of that sort of outside that we're always looking at which I use the word looking, Michael Hingson ** 29:13 which is fine. That's the word right? Sure. And it's fine to use that word. Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 29:19 We're looking like because we, we do look like you know, we do look and but you look in a different way. Michael Hingson ** 29:26 But look doesn't necessarily need to be defined as with your eyes. And that's the real issue, right? We're so oriented in our mindset, overall, are thinking about looking, you have to do it with your eyes. And that's where the breakdown comes, rather than recognizing that look, means really to examine or explore in a number of different ways and it doesn't necessarily need to be with eyesight. Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 29:56 And that's an that's a very interesting concept, right? We can look I guess we can look with our ears or we can look with our senses, other senses, correct? Michael Hingson ** 30:06 Well look as a general sort of a thing. You know, we listen with our ears, but it's part of looking around. Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 30:14 Right? Yeah. Interesting. Very, very interesting. I like to use of your words, I like the use of how you're taking certain words that I may think are only visually, I'm 50. Courts. I love words, right? I'm a writer. I love words. So you're taking words, and you're you're spinning them a little bit for me? Michael Hingson ** 30:36 I'm taking. I'm taking site orientation out of it. Right. Yeah. Which, which is important. And so you see why our podcast unstoppable mindset can go off in all sorts of different directions that we never thought about when we started this. Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 30:54 Yeah, we're going off in a totally different direction. But, you know, it's fun, really enlightening. It's really enlightening to me, I'm really actually learning a lot today. So this is really Michael Hingson ** 31:04 good. Well, you know, it's, it's part of what makes life fun going off and having adventures and adventures and words are always important to have and learning new concepts. And and every time I have these conversations, I get to learn things and sort of even more effectively, and hopefully, efficiently define what I do and say, and so, yeah, I love it. It's it's enjoyable to do this, but I do have a question for you. You have written a lot of books now, relating to sports and how come? Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 31:38 Because I love sports. And I love sports as a child, as I said, when my parents would ask me what I wanted to be when I, you know, people would ask what I wanted to be when I grew up, I always said, I want to be an athlete. Everybody looked at me like, Okay, well, that's not really a profession. What are you talking about? I love sports. As a child, I played everything you can possibly imagine everything I possibly, you know, was was there for me. And it was something that was really big in my life. So sometimes there's that old saying that write what you know, and especially when you're starting off writing it makes makes it a little bit easier. I mean, you know, blindness, you could write about blindness. So it's like, write what you know, and I and I knew about sports. So I wrote a tremendous amount about sports. And really interesting. Just a little side note here. I wrote a book called when you least expect it, and it's about a rower. And I was a rower in high school, I grew up in St. Catharines, Ontario, which is, as I said, close to negra falls, was a really big growing community. And I got into a boat and I rode and I, you know, went on and was on the national team and you know, won the Canadian championship and I was down, we went down to Philadelphia, we went down to Princeton, we went down to all kinds of places to row. And I really, really loved it. And the book ended up winning an award this year, it won the R rasa network for the Writers Guild of Alberta. And so I want some money for that. And I decided that I would give back and I would give a little scholarship, you know, give half of the money away to somebody who was finishing rowing at the St. Catharines rowing club where I grew up, and they were going to go into university. I ended up giving it to an I don't want to say visually impaired Michael Hingson ** 33:26 A Low vision person. Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 33:30 Yeah, because she sent me this letter. So I asked the, for the criteria, they had to send me their admission letter and tell me that they were going to continue on with the sport. And then they had to write a letter to me about, you know, something to do with my main protagonist and how, you know, they related and she just, she sent me this lovely letter about how, you know, she really wanted to be in sports, but she found it hard, difficult for some of the sports but then she found rowing. And as somebody with low vision, this was something that she could be very successful at. And she actually went in a single and in the Paralympic race at the Henley and she won the gold medal. So very interesting. And she wrote it a four but I think to get her bearings, she was able to sit on the floor, and then you know, a Coxy would, you know, steer the boat down and all she just had to hear for the sounds of the water to put the to put the orange in the water. So I just I just thought I'd share that thing as I'm talking to you today. So that was the letter that inspired me. I was like, this is this is this is good. This is inspirational and that's what this show is about. Because she was unstoppable she she wasn't going to say no like no I can't do this. She just went out and found some somewhere where she could be an athlete and, and be successful and go on to university and follow her dream and follow her passion. Michael Hingson ** 34:59 A friend of mine, Ariel Gilbert, who I've known for a long time I met her when I was working at Guide Dogs for the Blind. And she was working there as well is an inner is an international rower, and also was involved in the Paralympics. And actually when the Olympics were held. Last, I think in California, she was one of the people who carried the torch for a mile. And so has been very involved in the Olympics and very, very heavily involved in rowing and has done it for a number of years. She had to stop for a while because of some kidney issues. But that all got straightened out. And she's started again. Oh, so she's been rowing for for quite a while. And the reality is, it's a very doable sport. And she tells the story about how people didn't think that she could do it. And she said, Of course I can. Let me at least have a shot at it. And it didn't take very long during the shot at it for people to recognize that she was going to be as good as anyone else. Which makes perfect sense. Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 36:05 Yeah, I was so impressed with the letter to be really, and she was the one who got the scholarship or the bursary. She got the bursary. I emailed her and I said, you know your letter, I loved your letter, I thought that, you know, you explained everything to me quite well. And, you know, here's your money and go forth, and go to university and, and join your crew and keep going at it. And, you know, she just said it was a place where she felt that she could make some friends. And, you know, she just found success, and it is doable. It's a very, very doable sport for that. So, I mean, when I wrote the book, when do we expect it, it's not what I expected. So I mean, you know, it was when he least expected that I would, you know, donate the money back, and then get these letters in, and then all of a sudden end up on your show, to tie all of this together. And I kind of liked when things like that do happen, because as I said, everybody has a story to tell. And it was a really, really interesting story. So thank you for sharing with me about that other woman who? What was her name again? Michael Hingson ** 37:13 Ariel Gilbert, she lives up in the Bay Area in California. Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 37:17 I'll look that up. Because very interesting. I mean, she this other gal said, yeah, it was a very doable, doable sport for her. Michael Hingson ** 37:24 As with, as with a lot of things, the biggest problem is again, people's perceptions. Well, the belief is you've got to see to do it. And the question is why? Even even driving a car today technologically can be done. Although the technology isn't in wide use and isn't really in ready for primetime use. But and I'm not talking about an autonomous vehicle, but rather, a person truly being able to drive. Why should we view that is only something that a person with full eyesight can do with the amount of information that is truly available to us with technology today. And there has been demonstrations of a blind person truly driving a car, getting information from the vehicle that allows them to be on the road, or the one thing I'm thinking of, and I've talked about it here before, is the now president of the National Federation of the Blind Mark Riccobono drove a Ford Escape around the Daytona Speedway right before the 2011 Rolex 24 race, driving through an obstacle course passing a vehicle, and a number of other things because the car was transmitting through some additional instrumentation on the car information to mark that allowed him to safely be on that course, and drive around the course successfully. Again, eyesight is not the only game in town. And yeah, will that technology be something that gets built into cars, so more blind people can use it, hopefully in some way, at least, if nothing else, when we start to deal more with autonomous vehicles. And until we get to the point where there are 100% foolproof, which is going to be a ways away. It's going to be probably mandated that someone needs to be behind the steering wheel and be able to take control of the vehicle if something breaks down or drops out during the autonomous vehicles driving of technology driving the vehicle. I want to have the same opportunity to do that. Does anyone else at least to be able to safely pull the car to the side of the road? And the fact is the technology exists to do that? Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 39:42 Mm hmm. You know, it's typical sports to a friend of mine wrote a book with a it was a children's book, but it was a hockey book. Right? A lot of hockey books because I live in Canada. But they had a puck that had a puck that has like, like a rock or something in it. And the puck, you know, so when they stick handle down the ice, they could hear the puck. Yeah, yeah, it's it's, it's something that's used with people that are blind can play hockey, because they can actually hear the puck. And so then they can pass it over and they can hear it. Michael Hingson ** 40:22 And then they, there are some interesting and extremely active sports that blind people are are involved with. And of course, the whole concept of physical fitness is becoming more of an issue that a lot of us are paying attention to. And again, even exercise programs can be very accessible, if we verbalize rather than just showing things on a screen or through a camera lens, or whatever. And the fact is that there are a lot of ways to make it possible for more people to be included in what people think are otherwise not accessible or not any kind of activities that people without eyesight can do. Because eyesight is not the only game in town. There are many blind scientists and blind people who have participated in other things. For many years, it was assumed that no blind person could teach. And that eventually was addressed. And now it's fairly commonplace, although there are many school districts that still won't hire a person. Because the belief is that you have to see to be able to do it. And you don't. And so it's it is a it is a constant thing to explore and to hopefully do more to educate people about which is really what it is. It's an educational process. Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 41:44 Oh, 100% it 100% I think that it's all the more that someone like you, you know, with your podcast, you're today you're educating people, you've educated me even a little bit like hear like a lot, actually. And, you know, I think that that's that's important as well. And I think that technology has probably, perhaps helped the blind out tremendously. Michael Hingson ** 42:11 Well, it's helped all of us I mean, I we talked about the electric light bulb, right? That made it possible for us to do so many things after dark. Because before the light bulb, we had to go have used candles are light torches, technology is is helping all of us. And it has only in a relatively shorter time been recognized that we can use technology to further advance the inclusion that we all want. But you know, things like insulin pumps for people who have diabetes who happen to be blind, those insulin pumps use touchscreens and other things. And only recently, I believe in the US, at least as the FDA finally approved one that uses an app on a phone that is accessible so that a blind person can actually as a diabetic use an insulin pump. And the fact is that we've so got ourselves locked into touchscreens now that we find that more and more things are becoming inaccessible to us who happen to be blind or low vision, especially blind because we can't see the icons on the screen. And it's ironic that there's no need for that. Because today, we know that there are ways to make touchscreens accessible. Apple was very clever about doing that when they finally made the iPhone accessible. They had to do that because they would have been sued if they hadn't. But they got creative and they did it. So now every iPhone and Android phones, although that's still not quite progressed to the same level, but every iPhone and Android phones have built in to the software, the things to make them more usable for people who don't happen to see or see well. Right. Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 44:01 What about books in braille? Do you find that there's still not enough books in braille? Michael Hingson ** 44:07 Oh, I think there's still not enough books in braille. But ironically, again, the issue is that many books are being published electronically, but what they are, are photos saved in some sort of format of printed pages of books. And so those are not accessible. And so when books are made electronically, it's important that there be some sort of text version of the book so that they can be made available for people who happen to be blind again, or who could listen to them. Braille. Braille is still the means of reading and writing that I have available to me and a lot of teachers talk about Braille as being something that we we really don't need anymore because blind people can listen to books and so on. Well, if that's the case of why to be allow, why don't we allow sighted kids to just watch cartoons when Why do we want to teach them print? You know, the concept is still the same. We haven't progressed to really understand that there are true alternatives to eyesight. So a lot of people think a blind person can't right. Now I happen to collaborate with people when I write my find that helpful for me. But by the same token, the the issue is that the technology exists for me to be able to write I use a standard keyboard, you have a process that you use to write, you use a computer and a keyboard, but what's your what's your whole writing process? You written a lot of books, you have to have a process for that. Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 45:41 Yeah, I have a process. I generally start with an outline like I mean, there's a lot of thinking that goes on before a book gets published, right, or before you even start a book, start writing a book, not even before it gets published, you think a lot about what you're going to write, you think about how the story should start where the story should end. I mean, there's a lot of that that goes on, before you even start. Sometimes you can think about a book for a year. And then, and then you finally start it. And I often do an outline before I start, not everybody does, I'm not somebody who says Oh, you have to do this, you have to do that everybody has to follow their own process. And my process, it tends to be a bit of an outline, because I'd like to know the ending before we start, just because it saves me time, once I do begin. And then once I begin, I just I go at it, I go at it until I finish the first draft. And then once I finished the first draft, then I can sit back because the first draft is the bones, it's never very good. It's always not very good. And I have to edit it. And I have to revise it and work on it and mold it and make it make it what it's going to be even before I send it to like my agent, even before it gets out. I mean, and she'll give me notes, or I'll give it to friends even to take a look at to give me notes to tell me stuff that's not right with it. And then of course, when it goes to an editor, so yeah, I'm a sort of beginning to end finish. And then, you know, then I go back, and I revise. And I revise. And I revise. That's sort of my process. I have a novel that I have to work on here soon. And I've got the outline done. And I need to I thought a lot about it. And I did write the first chapter. And now I need to just dive back in and, and get the book, you know, get the book finished. But I do have an ending insight and an outline for it. So that's generally my process. Have you have you ever Michael Hingson ** 47:39 had a book that has really taken on a life of its own? And maybe even though you wrote an ending, that by the time it was done the whole ending? And everything changed about the book? Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 47:50 Oh, yeah, I mean, that does happen. And sometimes, you know, for instance, with this series that I was telling you about, one to one, yeah, the one to one series. I was in I think the third book, and Harrison was my autistic character in the first book, and I'm in the third book, and I'm riding away and I've got Madeline, and she has this brain injury. And I have a really good girlfriend who has a brain injury. So I kind of took a lot of and I spent a lot of time with her over the years and and so I'm riding away and all of a sudden, Harrison sort of comes back into the story because the kids sort of the teens sort of come in and out of the stories. And they all go the same high school together. And this character came back in and I was like really excited to see him. I was like, Oh, he's back I spoke. So like, and I had not planned that at all that that was simply came out of the blue. And his voice just came right back to me. And I was right back into writing about him. And, you know, he wanted to ask Madeline to dance was really fun. I was like, This is so fun. So yes, it does happen that sometimes it just goes off on a tangent and something appears and then you just think you just go with it. I just went with it. And I was you know, thrilled to have him back in my story. So it was really, really fun. And I you know, that was one of those days where I pushed my chair back at the end of my writing session and went oh, gosh, that was so incredibly fun to do so. Yeah. I mean, that does happen for sure. Yeah. So Michael Hingson ** 49:24 did Harrison and Madeline hit it off? Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 49:26 Well, they did. Thank you for asking. I love their interaction. I was like, This is so good. Michael Hingson ** 49:35 Well, maybe they will become a thing, or did they become a thing? Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 49:39 Maybe they'll become a high school thing. Who knows? Yeah, it's not up to them. Michael Hingson ** 49:44 There's nothing wrong with that. Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 49:46 Oh, gosh, no, that's okay. That's good. Anyway, yeah. So that does happen for sure. And that makes it really fun. When it does. That's cool. I allow that to happen. I do allow the book to go off Want to attention to and maybe finish somewhere else that it's never finished before? So Michael Hingson ** 50:04 well your characters are part of you, and then in a lot of different ways, and so it's interesting that they can come back and say, No, we think we should go this way. Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 50:13 Exactly, exactly. And that's okay. And that's cool, because that's who they are. And they're just telling me something. So, and I enjoy that process. And I enjoy that part of it, for sure. Michael Hingson ** 50:25 Do you have yet a favorite book from all the ones that you've written? That that you would identify as kind of your favorite so far? Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 50:33 Oh, no, I gotta say no to that. I think every book is a different process. It's a different book. Some books write themselves, some books, you know, are harder. Sometimes it's harder to, you know, I have to figure out the character. I mean, of course, the rolling book was, you know, based a little bit on me as a teenager. So that has a really special place in my heart, but it doesn't mean it's my favorites. I mean, I know I'm going to say no. Well, that's, Michael Hingson ** 51:09 um, that's, that's fine. You just have a lot of fun with all of them, which is, which is great. So what does your husband Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 51:16 do? Oh, my husband works for the Edmonton Oilers. Michael Hingson ** 51:20 He works for the Oilers. That's why you said go wireless. I got it. What does he do? Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 51:27 I gotta wear the jersey. I gotta wear the gear. No, Michael Hingson ** 51:30 you're not gonna go off and root for the flames and then embarrass him. Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 51:36 Never happened? No, no, no, no, no, no. No, he works with me to do either so yeah, I'm an oiler span through what does he do? Pretty good job with them. He's like their vice president. I think they Michael Hingson ** 51:49 are cool. I, I tried ice skating once. And it was a challenge for me. And I eventually, as we were actually going off the ice, I finally fell and sprained my ankle. But so I've not ice skated since. But it's one of those those kinds of things that I never really caught on to. And I admire so much people who are able to do it much less the figure skaters and so on, and all the things that they can do. Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 52:17 Well, it's amazing. It's, you know, sometimes I look at photos of like, a figure skater or hockey player. And you can see them over on their edge on that one like line. It's a really, really fine line. And it's pretty incredible that they can actually balance on that. Michael Hingson ** 52:36 Yeah. And, and the hockey players who can just do that for so long, so fast, and so well. And Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 52:44 so Well, absolutely, yeah, it's, it's actually, you know, it's a really fun sport to write. And I've got I've written a lot of hockey novels because of the speed that I can I and you know, the speed the sounds the throwing off the board's the scraping of the ice. So there's a lot there that I'm allowed to use my words. And so it's fun because it's fast. So I get I can get going into like a scene where it's fast and furious. And they're, they're moving and scraping and doing all kinds of fun things. So yeah, it's it's like, Michael Hingson ** 53:22 I think for my part, I could probably learn to drive a Zamboni. Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 53:25 Oh everybody, that's it. Michael Hingson ** 53:34 But that's a that's a lot of fun to, to be able to do the things that they do. And I admire not only hockey, but all all sports people because they hone some skills so well and so much that it makes it a lot of fun. And the reason we really love college football is although is still becoming more of a money thing. Still, college sports tend to be a lot more fun and still somewhat less commercial than professional sports, which makes them a lot more enjoyable. Oh, for Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 54:07 sure. Yeah, for sure. I think it's very fun, especially down in the states to be my son went to the University of Arizona and that was one of the biggest things that he really wanted to participate in was going to the football games. I mean, for him. That was just such an experience to participate in, in college football and be like a fan. He really enjoyed that. That was kind of a i something he'll never forget. Michael Hingson ** 54:35 It's a whole different culture being I think a college sports fan than a professional sports fan. Just it's a it's a whole different environment. Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 54:44 He really enjoyed it. And he did mentor the basketball games. He really really enjoyed that part of his college experience. So Michael Hingson ** 54:50 yeah, even though as I said, we love USC and we enjoy that, you know, just watching the games are a lot more fun. So of course this Here we'll get to see our two major rivalries, it'll be SC against UCLA. And then we'll also be SC against Notre Dame. And, and those are the two big ones that we tend to, to watch. But we're really enjoying college football. And one of the things that we've really seen an eye I've become much more convinced of over time is how much the coach really does impact the team. I mean, look at what's happening at SC this year, they're three in Oh, and they've been playing so poorly in previous years. And I think their coach in the past, just wasn't really ready to be in the same kind of environment that a USC team is, because he's a winning coach. He's gone off elsewhere now, and he's winning. So I think he's found a better niche. And the person who came in to coach, the USC team is doing really well. Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 55:57 Well, the gel to the gel of the people with the coach and all that sort of stuff. I mean, there's so much that goes into a team that actually ends up winning and so much, so much of it is more than just the skill. It's the psychological and the mental game that the team has. Yeah, it's huge. Michael Hingson ** 56:20 And it's interesting listening to the announcers, talk about what's happening again, at SC this year, how Lincoln Riley the coach is getting all the people on the team to really interact outside the games and, and feel like more of a team. And that's pretty impressive. And in there's a lot to be learned there about teamwork, and the value of what, in a sense, the coach does, and people talk about the quarterback and football being the leader. But in some ways, the coach brings a different dimension to it. And if the coach is doing a good job, then that's going to help the rest of the team, by any definition. For sure, do you get a lot of coaching from people when you write? Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 57:03 Oh 100% I always I always attribute because I was an athlete, I always attribute my editors as my coaches, editors are so valuable, like in a good editor is huge. And and I look forward to their comments. And they're, you know, this didn't work for this character isn't quite resonating with me, I think you need to go a little deeper into this or you need to, you need to look at the depth of the emotions with this. I didn't quite get it. And I think oh, okay, I thought that I'd done it. But maybe I haven't, when the reader actually takes the book over when the editor takes the book over. So a good editor is worth an author is so worth it to an author. And it's because, oh, it's huge, huge. Michael Hingson ** 57:48 A good editor isn't going to change the book unless it just is horrible. What's the purpose of a good editor is is to help you flesh out the book. Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 57:56 Yes. And a good editor. I mean, by the time you get the publication, though, I mean, it's been accepted because it is a book that's got something right or else rejected. So you finally get there. And then you know, but then you still have to work with that editor. And that editor will have some thoughts, but you're 100% correct in saying that a good editor doesn't want to change the book. They just want to make it better. Michael Hingson ** 58:24 Yeah. And they've learned how to do that. 100 Yeah, yes. So what kind of tips I love to ask this question, what kind of tips do you have for people who want to write or for other writers? Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 58:36 A couple of tips. I would say number one be reader. I think that it's huge. If you know, I've taught lots of courses, and if I get somebody who says oh, I don't like to read, I think how are you going to be a writer like reading is super important. I also think, just write, don't, don't try to edit yourself as you begin to write like, think of your story. You remember what the very, very beginning we talked about story and story is hugely important. So just think about what your story is what it is you want to tell, and how you want to tell it, and who do you want to tell it. And that's that's important too, because the voice of the story is really important. So if you look at it that way, and then you think of story first, and then think of the writing you know, as your as you get the story down, then you can write and then don't be afraid to edit. Don't be afraid to go back over and over and over it and just make it better. Don't think it's done after the first draft. And persistence and perseverance is really important. Michael Hingson ** 59:42 Do you when you're writing or once you've written a draft? Do you share it with a cadre of people to get their thoughts and reviews? Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 59:52 Yeah, I have depending on what I'm doing, like, if it's a book that I have signed a contract before I've written the book which I I do have some publishers that I work that way with. But recently, I just wrote a thriller novel, which is an adult novel, which hasn't been published yet, was just a COVID experience because I was bored. You know, I was tired of watching Tiger King. All those shows. So I wrote this book, and I needed some guidance with it. So I asked some friends to read it like, you know, and then we would have a zoom call, and I would get their their take on it. You know, did you get this? Did you get that? Did you understand this? Maybe it needed more. So yeah, I will. I will, it depends on the book. Yeah. And what I'm doing? Yeah. So for sure. I think it's a good, I think it's really good advice for new authors is to is to help flush the story 100%. But make sure you're going with people that you trust. Because you don't want to get it. Like if you get bombarded with feedback. And it's conflicting feedback, then that can be really difficult to so you want to get the feed, but you want to go to people you trust. So maybe people that are in a writers group, if they're in like three or four or five people that can work really well. Michael Hingson ** 1:01:14 For sure. Yeah, it's important to be able to get input, but be able to sift through it. Because you're right, it can be very overwhelming. And you have to develop a little bit of a thick skin, not because you shouldn't be afraid of criticism, if you will, although people get worried about that. But rather, it's a thicker skin that helps you be able to sift through it and look for the nuggets that each person brings to suggestions that may be valuable for you. Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 1:01:47 Yeah, thick skin is super important in this business. Michael Hingson ** 1:01:50 Yeah. Always. Always is. Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 1:01:53 Yeah. It's a very important part of the business. Michael Hingson ** 1:01:56 Well, this has been really fun. We've been doing this now for a little over an hour, and I really appreciate Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 1:02:02 it take my dog to the vet. Michael Hingson ** 1:02:03 Oh my gosh. Or is the horse the dog taking you? Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 1:02:08 Well, probably the dog take you home. There Michael Hingson ** 1:02:10 you go. What kind of dog? Oh, Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 1:02:12 I brought him home from Mexico. He's a rescue dog. I picked him up as a little puppy off the street. And I brought him home. Oh, nine and a half now though. He's older now. So I've had him for a lot of years. See doing okay. Oh, he's great. He just has to go for his checkup and get his shots and whatever. You know, Michael Hingson ** 1:02:27 Alamo my guide dog goes tomorrow we're taking dog and cat to the vet. Alaba is just going to get his shots and a physical and stitch the cat goes in for a pedicure to trim toenails, and so on because they're getting way too long. And it hurts when she grabs a hold of you now, so we're gonna do that. I'm gonna go Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 1:02:47 get their shots, too. So. So anyway, it's been great. This, Michael Hingson ** 1:02:51 this has been fun. Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 1:02:53 Yeah, really fun. Michael Hingson ** 1:02:54 Well, we should do it some more. And definitely, we could talk about that book if you'd like. But I want to think I want to thank you again for being here. We'll connect by email. Well, we have to do that. And I want to thank everyone. I want to thank you all for listening. We really appreciate you being here. We'd love to hear your comments. Send an email to me. I would love to hear from you, Michaelhi at accessibe A C C E S S I B E.com. Or go to Michael hingson.com/podcast. And you can find contact information there. But also learn a how can people reach out to you they'd like to talk with you or learn more about you. Oh, my Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 1:03:33 email is Lornasn L O R N A S N at TELUS te l u s.net. That one's pretty easy. Yeah, Michael Hingson ** 1:03:44 that one is Lorenasn@telus.net.net. Yeah, that's so there you go. If you want to talk to learn a please hit if you don't want to talk to Lorna, email her and tell her you love the podcast anyway. And of course. And of course, we would appreciate you giving us a five star review whoever you are, wherever you are, and so on. You're listening to this. We appreciate your reviews and your thoughts. So thanks very much for listening to us and Lorna once more. Thanks very much for being here on unstoppable mindset. Lorna Schultz Nicholson ** 1:04:13 Thank you, Michael. **Michael Hingson ** 1:04:19 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com. accessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.
