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Pete Hall: Welcome to the Transformative Principal.
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I am so excited to share this interview from ISTE 2026 with you.
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Really fascinating things happening there.
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Lots of great people, and over the course of the next couple weeks, you're gonna hear some of these great interviews.
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Hope you enjoy, and thanks for listening to Transformative Principal
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Jethro D. Jones: All right, Evan Schwartz, ISTE ASCD 2026.
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Welcome.
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Thanks for being
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Evin Schwarz: Appreciate
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it.
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Jethro D. Jones: Great to be here.
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Evin Schwarz: here.
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Jethro D. Jones: Yeah, I'm excited.
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Um, so, uh, you run Thinkering, also Beluga, but Thinkering, uh, and B Podcast Network are, are partners.
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Talk to us about why that's a good fit for
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you.
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Evin Schwarz: Yeah,
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and Jethro, first of all, I think is-- How long have we known each other?
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Maybe I-
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Eight
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Jethro D. Jones: Eight
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Evin Schwarz: Yeah.
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We're going
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on.
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And this is the the first, I think, IRL,
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which amazing.
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Yes, Yes, I know.
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So I'm super pumped about that.
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Jethro D. Jones: Yeah.
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Evin Schwarz: Um, so Thinkering and B, and B, I mean,
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like it was a natural fit.
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like knowing you and Ross Mm on that side and
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the work that you're doing,
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uh, just projecting voice.
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And I think even walking around
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this conference this week and,
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and, you know, a few of the other conferences this year, uh, voice is needed you know, more than ever
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before.
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Yeah.
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I
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teachers are lonely, admins are lonely, and people wanna find their
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community.
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Uh, for us,
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we're
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sitting on that community of inspiration and innovators that
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seen just like
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we've seen just, like, really flock to what we're trying to do at Thinkering,
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which is humanize
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education.
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Mm. And it's this loaded saying, crunchy granola and the whole nine, uh, but the neat thing we have
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now is all of them should be heard.
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Yeah.
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And not just with our internal team.
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They
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go through our process.
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They're celebrated locally.
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But this innovation and inspiration for everyone else out there in the industry, too.
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Yeah.
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So when that teacher's sitting in their classroom and saying like, "I can't do it," right?
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Garrett, one of our other founders
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always says like, "But what?" All Right?
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Like, what comes next after after
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this?
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Like, let's eliminate the excuses.
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Mm. If there
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was no red tape we wouldn't say.
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So for us, we're trying to project that.
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I mean, if you
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look at our Substack and some of our media in-house
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we have, uh,
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that we have, uh, it's all teachers.
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Mm. It's all teacher voice that we're trying to push as much as possible.
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Through B,
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we found a a home that's external-
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Jethro D. Jones: Yeah
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… Evin Schwarz: where we're able to now say… I mean, I was talking
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to, I forget the exact podcast
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property, the Catholic School one.
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Jethro D. Jones: Yeah.
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Evin Schwarz: Catholic School Leaders.
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Yeah, Catholic School Leaders.
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Yep.
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Like, we have an amazing Catholic school educator that just our program in the Bay
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Area, and she's the perfect example of this.
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of this.
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Jethro D. Jones: Yeah.
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Evin Schwarz: Where we could celebrate her and send her out through stuff, it should
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also go to a targeted community- Yeah
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Jethro D. Jones: Yeah
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… Evin Schwarz: that
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could say, "I know exactly how you're feeling and what you're going through, and this is who else can be part of this program."
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Yeah.
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So I think just the diversity that you guys
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have built- Yeah
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Jethro D. Jones: Yeah
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… Evin Schwarz: from a a voice perspective ev- everything we're looking for and more.
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Jethro D. Jones: Yeah.
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Well, and what our perspective is, we want a podcast for everybody, no matter where they're at
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at in education.
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Yep.
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So whether,
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whatever your role is, want you to have a podcast that
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that helps you become the best- Yeah … that you can be.
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And,
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and a podcast is a really great way to do that
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because
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asynchronous.
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You can do it on your own time.
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You don't need anybody's permission.
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And what we want is for if we don't have a podcast in that area, we want somebody to say, "Hey, I'll do the Yeah.
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And we wanna provide that, and that's, that's, what we wanna get to, is have that available for for everybody.
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Evin Schwarz: let me ask
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you something on that, and I'm, uh, the script a little here as cool.
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That's cool.
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Cool.
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But you sparked an
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idea.
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So
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we see so many
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teachers that are so intimidated by it.
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by it.
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Jethro D. Jones: Yeah.
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Evin Schwarz: Right?
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And
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I- it's hard, right?
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Like,
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it takes commitment.
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But everything takes commitment- That's right … I would love to know the data of how many people, not education, but in general
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do three podcasts and then probably say this is enough because no one's coming.
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Yeah.
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But like from a teacher perspective and things that we're discussing with our community, like what's the
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secret?
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Yeah.
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Jethro D. Jones: Well, well, here's the thing is you, uh, doing a podcast, you have to… You're not gonna be like, uh, Joe Rogan, right?
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Mm-hmm.
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You're not gonna be like, uh, the Kelsey
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Brothers and and this amazing thing thing that is,
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you
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know, getting millions of sponsorships- Right … and all all that kind of stuff.
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And so especially in education- Mm-hmm
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what you have to have is a desire to continue to teach- Yep … the next generation.
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Yep.
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Which is, which is what it comes down to.
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And if that's what you wanna do.
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Yeah.
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So, so get this, I, I, I interviewed somebody here at ISTE yesterday.
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Mm-hmm.
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And he-- and I said, "Hey, nice to meet you.
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I'm Jethro." And he said, "I'm Kevin, but I I know you because I've been listening to your podcast since 2016."
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This guy, I don't know if he's ever bought one of my books.
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Yeah.
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He hasn't come to any of my trainings.
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I've never met him before.
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But
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when he was deciding whether or not to be be a principal,
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…he found my podcast and has been listening to it ever since.
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That's And like what's so awesome about that is that you can make an impact- Yeah
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and not even know about it, which is really a cool thing to be able to do.
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Yeah.
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But the other thing that's so valuable is that it's not just about helping others, but about clarifying your own
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thinking.
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Evin Schwarz: I agree.
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It's voice, right?
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Jethro D. Jones: Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And so
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when you get behind a microphone and you start talking about what you believe, you're allowed to change your mind.
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Yeah.
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You're allowed to grow and
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develop.
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Mm-hmm.
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But the thing is, is that when you say
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it, you, and
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especially in that's gonna be put out to other people, you're committing to it.
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And what that actually does is that forces you to say to yourself, "Is this what I really believe?" For sure.
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And, and that process of going through that is so powerful.
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Mm-hmm.
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And where I wanted to go next was tell me about the process that that you
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put te- uh, educators through.
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What does that look like
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Thinkering?
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Because I think that it is the perfect on-ramp- Mm-hmm … to what, to starting a podcast right after you're done with that.
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Evin Schwarz: Yeah.
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And
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that's what we love too.
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Or in the pro- the
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Jethro D. Jones: middle of it.
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Evin Schwarz: So on our side, um, I mean,
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really started Thinkering,
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a lot of
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ideation.
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Um, I joke, I
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think it was my
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midlife crisis
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ultimately.
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Yeah.
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There'll probably be another one
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too, but like- …what, are, what are are we doing
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ultimately, right?
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Like we're sitting here for, on a Beluga side, you know, for-profit.
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We're selling to schools.
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We're growing.
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like what are are we really doing?
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We're in education.
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Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm.
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Evin Schwarz: And if we're not moving mountains, and the mountains could be one kid.
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Yeah.
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It doesn't matter.
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Micro.
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But
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it's it's changing.
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I'm always the worst with that.
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Um, but on that side of it, what do we need to do to make a difference?
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So we started looking and
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saying like, "Who needs help
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in education?" everyone needs help, but we have to go to teachers
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first though.
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If we're really thinking about North Star, we want every child to have the best education experience possible, it experience possible, it has to start
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with teachers.
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Mm. And we know the retention rates and the attrition rates and the burnout are the
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are real.
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right?
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50% plus at this point.
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What to do
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We said, "Who can we go first from an an educator perspective?" Your on-ramp is is those types
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of people,
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the outliers, the innovators, and it's not for them.
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We want
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it for everyone,
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but
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they're early adopters.
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Yep.
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What we also found really quickly was it's really difficult being those people in a a school
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Jethro D. Jones: Yep.
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It sure is.
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Right?
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I got a lot to about that.
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Evin Schwarz: Yep.
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I mean, we get to go deep on that.
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one.
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Yeah.
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I love
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this topic.
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Yeah.
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But they're
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anonymous, and it's, "Hey, Mr. and Mrs. XYZ,"
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whatever you
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wanna call it, "Stay in in
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your lane."
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Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm.
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Evin Schwarz: Right?
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Like, we're gonna go back to the Yeah … or we're gonna do the assessment, and we can't afford
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to
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lose these people in in the industry.
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Jethro D. Jones: Yeah.
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Evin Schwarz: Like, they're there because 20 faces smile at them every
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day,
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and they'll remember that
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person for the rest of their
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And I, I… As I said, I know that one person-
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Yeah ……right, from my own childhood.
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Yeah.
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I
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wish it was 50, but it was teacher that believed
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and made it fun to show up, and this is before
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social media and technology and AI and
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this one.
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Now, it's the
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opportunity cost.
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of why am I coming
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to school
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as a kid,
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right?
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is
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a whole
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other ball of wax, which
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that's another
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conversation, I think.
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But going in,
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we said, let's bring them together-
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Mm …and let's surround them with a mentor who could guide the process, and just as of curriculum and program is complaining,
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Right?
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Our pro- we're human.
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Like,
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it's hard being in education today.
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Let's really dive in.
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We bring them through a 10-week virtual experience.
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They're in cohort format, so teachers work up to 12 other
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educators.
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10 to 12 is really our
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magic number.
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Um, depending on our program, we have about eight programs
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right now.
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By the end of
00:07:50.303 --> 00:07:50.678
the year, we'll have
00:07:50.678 --> 00:07:51.508
12 programs,
00:07:51.908 --> 00:07:52.538
uh, that run
00:07:52.538 --> 00:07:53.263
throughout the year.
00:07:53.718 --> 00:08:03.593
Um, we generally see, about two hours a week of programming, so not a heavy lift at all, but these are coming are coming from all different walks of life, knowing heart on
00:08:03.593 --> 00:08:04.173
their sleeve
00:08:04.738 --> 00:08:05.383
why they got into
00:08:05.383 --> 00:08:06.013
the industry.
00:08:06.653 --> 00:08:10.648
Uh, there's multiple workshops we pop open throughout this, uh, and we want it feel
00:08:10.733 --> 00:08:11.083
exclusive.
00:08:11.253 --> 00:08:12.738
We it to feel like a community
00:08:13.018 --> 00:08:14.263
when they're there of I could go
00:08:14.263 --> 00:08:16.043
to person that I never would've gotten a
00:08:16.043 --> 00:08:16.708
chance to with.
00:08:17.028 --> 00:08:18.898
Like walking around this state, some of the
00:08:18.898 --> 00:08:19.868
keynotes and big
00:08:19.868 --> 00:08:21.403
stage speakers are our mentors-
00:08:21.573 --> 00:08:21.743
Mm-hmm.
00:08:21.743 --> 00:08:22.603
Yeah ………and our partners,
00:08:22.958 --> 00:08:23.978
and, like, I, I saw it.
00:08:23.978 --> 00:08:25.863
You know, the teachers wait at the end of the session,
00:08:25.863 --> 00:08:28.243
but they shouldn't have to just wait on one question.
00:08:28.493 --> 00:08:28.583
Yeah.
00:08:28.583 --> 00:08:30.153
It's like, let's make people accessible.
00:08:30.153 --> 00:08:31.223
There's so much knowledge
00:08:31.613 --> 00:08:31.833
that we
00:08:31.833 --> 00:08:33.363
all hold, and by the end of
00:08:33.363 --> 00:08:34.143
10 weeks, of really
00:08:34.143 --> 00:08:38.583
where all the magic in, is we turn to the educator and say, "What's your project
00:08:38.833 --> 00:08:40.503
on humanizing education in your
00:08:40.503 --> 00:08:40.813
own community?"
00:08:41.188 --> 00:08:41.658
Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm.
00:08:41.878 --> 00:08:42.068
Evin Schwarz: They
00:08:42.123 --> 00:08:42.793
build throughout this.
00:08:42.943 --> 00:08:43.743
Every week goes build, build, build.
00:08:43.838 --> 00:08:44.068
build it, build it.
00:08:45.244 --> 00:08:45.721
Nine out of of
00:08:45.721 --> 00:08:45.991
10
00:08:46.011 --> 00:08:48.644
times we then turn back and say, "Let's make happen." Yeah.
00:08:49.184 --> 00:08:50.021
And that's that's where I
00:08:50.051 --> 00:08:51.171
think we separate completely.
00:08:51.664 --> 00:08:51.694
Right.
00:08:51.764 --> 00:08:53.801
Where great professional development, don't get
00:08:53.801 --> 00:08:54.031
me wrong,
00:08:54.584 --> 00:08:56.174
it elevates its community.
00:08:56.224 --> 00:08:57.074
It's a feel-good.
00:08:57.074 --> 00:08:57.894
We have the badges and the
00:08:57.894 --> 00:08:58.604
certificates
00:08:58.604 --> 00:09:00.631
and the state credits that we're approved for.
00:09:00.971 --> 00:09:01.781
Uh, but there's a lot of those
00:09:01.781 --> 00:09:02.281
organizations.
00:09:02.814 --> 00:09:07.781
Where we came to life saying, "What if we actually made these made these ideas happen?" Mm-hmm.
00:09:07.781 --> 00:09:10.954
So as a nonprofit, we then go out and raise capital for these
00:09:10.964 --> 00:09:16.524
projects, and the average cost we see anywhere from $4,000, $5,000 to make these projects happen.
00:09:16.854 --> 00:09:20.361
Uh, bigger tickets, we had one educator that said, "I need a
00:09:20.361 --> 00:09:20.701
bus,
00:09:21.224 --> 00:09:24.914
and I wanna bring technology to rural We said, "Great. Let's make this happen," right?
00:09:24.914 --> 00:09:26.561
Like- Yeah … we want these crazy ideas.
00:09:26.571 --> 00:09:31.971
And Then another teacher the other day said, "We're gonna do slam poetry to really have a
00:09:31.971 --> 00:09:32.531
district-wide
00:09:32.531 --> 00:09:34.911
initiative literacy, bring community together."
00:09:35.114 --> 00:09:38.151
And she's like, "Uh, we need I'm, probably need more than $80." Yeah.
00:09:38.161 --> 00:09:39.461
But, like, let's make
00:09:39.461 --> 00:09:39.861
this happen
00:09:40.171 --> 00:09:40.441
ultimately.
00:09:40.441 --> 00:09:40.461
Yeah.
00:09:41.001 --> 00:09:44.294
So not only are we looking at the capital part of it, but then bringing
00:09:44.461 --> 00:09:46.424
in subject matter experts from our community.
00:09:46.424 --> 00:09:46.774
Today, we
00:09:46.774 --> 00:09:48.414
have over 200 incredible
00:09:48.414 --> 00:09:51.651
organizations in our community, BE being one of them as well, and
00:09:51.651 --> 00:09:52.171
researchers.
00:09:52.804 --> 00:09:53.341
And our
00:09:53.341 --> 00:09:54.181
big-picture vision
00:09:54.251 --> 00:09:55.244
is the next five-ish
00:09:55.244 --> 00:09:56.751
years and plus, hopefully this goes
00:09:56.781 --> 00:09:57.181
for a very
00:09:57.181 --> 00:09:58.461
long time, but how do we bring
00:09:58.494 --> 00:09:59.351
tens of thousands of
00:09:59.351 --> 00:09:59.871
educators from
00:10:00.331 --> 00:10:00.781
all around the
00:10:00.781 --> 00:10:01.031
world,
00:10:01.411 --> 00:10:03.461
show what, one, passion and heart
00:10:03.861 --> 00:10:06.401
lead to, but then give the rest of the community
00:10:08.164 --> 00:10:08.424
Not
00:10:08.483 --> 00:10:08.603
the
00:10:08.603 --> 00:10:09.373
outliers or the
00:10:09.373 --> 00:10:11.093
innovators, which I believe every
00:10:11.093 --> 00:10:13.393
teacher can be under the right circumstances.
00:10:13.753 --> 00:10:14.033
But let's
00:10:14.033 --> 00:10:16.053
show them the stories and the innovation and
00:10:16.163 --> 00:10:16.823
inspiration
00:10:17.214 --> 00:10:17.384
in
00:10:17.443 --> 00:10:19.494
formats that adapt and adopt to
00:10:19.494 --> 00:10:21.943
their own demographics and affluent status and
00:10:21.983 --> 00:10:22.803
poverty and this and that.
00:10:23.163 --> 00:10:23.183
Yeah.
00:10:23.293 --> 00:10:24.093
So that's, um, that's
00:10:24.093 --> 00:10:24.663
our process.
00:10:24.852 --> 00:10:27.603
Jethro D. Jones: Well, uh, here's, here's something crazy to to think
00:10:27.603 --> 00:10:27.883
about.
00:10:28.882 --> 00:10:32.982
Is $80 really what's holding that teacher back from doing the poetry slam?
00:10:34.112 --> 00:10:34.446
It's not at all.
00:10:34.446 --> 00:10:35.143
I mean, that's the thing, like-
00:10:35.143 --> 00:10:35.163
So
00:10:35.283 --> 00:10:35.823
Evin Schwarz: I love that
00:10:35.888 --> 00:10:36.032
that up.
00:10:36.032 --> 00:10:36.442
Jethro D. Jones: Yeah.
00:10:36.682 --> 00:10:39.562
Because it-- Money, once
00:10:39.713 --> 00:10:40.123
you,
00:10:40.712 --> 00:10:47.963
once you can articulate what you're doing and can say what the value is, then the the can appear pretty easily, to be be honest.
00:10:48.153 --> 00:10:48.433
For sure.
00:10:48.443 --> 00:10:48.823
And,
00:10:49.122 --> 00:10:54.583
and so a lot of teachers think that, that we just don't have access to capital- Mm-hmm.
00:10:54.703 --> 00:10:55.802
Yep … in Yep … in education.
00:10:55.802 --> 00:10:58.252
And the reality is that we totally do.
00:10:58.262 --> 00:10:58.292
Yep.
00:10:58.322 --> 00:11:14.393
And you just need to have a, have a have a good idea that somebody can get behind, and then then find someone who cares about that, and, and that's what
what you're showing because of your connections and people you know, and, and the history and the, and the collective and and all that kind of stuff.
00:11:14.842 --> 00:11:21.732
But the the other thing is, once that teacher knows that she can can do that, she doesn't to come to you for the $80.
00:11:21.732 --> 00:11:21.982
Yep.
00:11:21.982 --> 00:11:27.142
She can go to somebody else in her community who's like, "Hey, you have a coffee Yeah.
00:11:27.332 --> 00:11:32.862
"And we wanna do slam poetry here at at your coffee shop." And the coffee shop will be like, "Oh yeah, that'd be great.
00:11:32.862 --> 00:11:33.302
Please.
00:11:33.682 --> 00:11:38.792
Uh, we would love to have-- We would love a reason for 100 customers to come to our-" And kids.
00:11:38.953 --> 00:11:39.053
"… business
00:11:39.053 --> 00:11:39.623
on that day." And kids.
00:11:40.132 --> 00:11:40.723
And kids.
00:11:40.733 --> 00:11:40.933
Right?
00:11:41.023 --> 00:11:41.563
Yeah, totally.
00:11:41.713 --> 00:11:41.873
So that's
00:11:41.873 --> 00:11:42.118
powerful.
00:11:42.118 --> 00:11:42.363
Yeah.
00:11:42.363 --> 00:11:42.383
So
00:11:42.643 --> 00:11:46.370
Evin Schwarz: I love how you just said that, one, it's not about the money, that we say.
00:11:46.440 --> 00:11:46.640
Yeah.
00:11:46.753 --> 00:11:51.260
And we always say from a funding side, we get this question all the time of like, "What does it look like term?" Yeah.
00:11:51.353 --> 00:11:53.333
Well, long-term is we want this to be
00:11:53.333 --> 00:11:53.643
sustainable.
00:11:53.643 --> 00:11:53.953
Right?
00:11:53.953 --> 00:11:56.543
Like we want this… You can come back to us all the time.
00:11:56.543 --> 00:11:57.003
We want that.
00:11:57.003 --> 00:11:58.543
But we also want it, when that
00:11:58.543 --> 00:11:59.033
teacher leaves,
00:11:59.033 --> 00:11:59.823
I'll give you a great example.
00:12:00.243 --> 00:12:02.983
We had a teacher in Colorado recently come to us, and
00:12:03.380 --> 00:12:03.950
she left her
00:12:03.950 --> 00:12:05.343
district a long a long time ago.
00:12:05.343 --> 00:12:05.773
She put in,
00:12:05.773 --> 00:12:06.233
like, this whole
00:12:06.293 --> 00:12:06.793
koi pond.
00:12:07.020 --> 00:12:07.250
Mm-hmm.
00:12:07.340 --> 00:12:07.853
Spent a a lot
00:12:07.853 --> 00:12:08.143
of time.
00:12:08.143 --> 00:12:08.690
Kids it.
00:12:08.970 --> 00:12:11.370
She went on maternity leave, came back, and there was over the koi pond.
00:12:11.670 --> 00:12:11.820
Oh
00:12:12.103 --> 00:12:12.393
my gosh.
00:12:12.633 --> 00:12:12.803
So
00:12:13.103 --> 00:12:13.703
That's crazy
00:12:13.713 --> 00:12:15.253
You can imagine how she felt coming back.
00:12:15.253 --> 00:12:15.273
Yeah.
00:12:15.273 --> 00:12:16.343
She changed schools pretty quickly.
00:12:16.343 --> 00:12:23.503
I was like… But on that side, she was a fellow recently us, came in and created a school garden, so she has that outdoor thumb.
00:12:23.520 --> 00:12:23.540
Yeah.
00:12:23.540 --> 00:12:23.890
Yep.
00:12:23.890 --> 00:12:23.910
Mm-hmm.
00:12:23.920 --> 00:12:27.283
But she did it for the right not just, "Hey, we wanna create, you
00:12:27.320 --> 00:12:27.620
kids
00:12:27.620 --> 00:12:28.350
in the dirt and playing,"
00:12:28.403 --> 00:12:29.740
which is so important, don't get wrong.
00:12:30.203 --> 00:12:32.903
But she did it because where they live is a food desert.
00:12:33.703 --> 00:12:34.603
There's no fresh
00:12:34.633 --> 00:12:35.093
produce.
00:12:35.103 --> 00:12:35.123
Yeah.
00:12:35.200 --> 00:12:37.273
fresh produce Yeah …families struggle in that
00:12:37.273 --> 00:12:37.673
sense.
00:12:38.010 --> 00:12:38.430
There's
00:12:38.570 --> 00:12:39.470
childhood diabetes
00:12:39.470 --> 00:12:39.800
rates.
00:12:40.290 --> 00:12:45.633
And she said, "What we're gonna do is we're gonna focus on first. We're gonna get them and hands-on," and and we know what that engagement does.
00:12:45.633 --> 00:12:45.693
Yeah.
00:12:45.693 --> 00:12:46.090
Just does-" Yeah
00:12:46.100 --> 00:12:47.003
just data alone.
00:12:47.783 --> 00:12:50.893
From there, though, we're gonna take it from courtyard to cafeteria.
00:12:51.093 --> 00:12:51.263
Wow.
00:12:51.663 --> 00:12:52.860
And then we're gonna create a farmer's market market
00:12:53.180 --> 00:12:53.620
Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm.
00:12:53.660 --> 00:12:54.030
Evin Schwarz: So
00:12:54.120 --> 00:13:01.787
she created, I mean, pantry business, entrepreneurship, uh, biology, right?
00:13:01.900 --> 00:13:05.997
Like environmental studies, everything you can think of and in confidence
00:13:06.287 --> 00:13:07.477
and community- Yeah which
00:13:07.477 --> 00:13:09.347
you're getting to just like we need
00:13:09.737 --> 00:13:10.527
people to believe in
00:13:10.610 --> 00:13:10.890
other.
00:13:11.040 --> 00:13:11.330
Jethro D. Jones: Yeah.
00:13:11.477 --> 00:13:14.047
Evin Schwarz: And today, especially 2026, it's hard being a a human.
00:13:14.157 --> 00:13:15.020
Forget about just a teacher.
00:13:15.020 --> 00:13:15.220
No.
00:13:15.220 --> 00:13:15.420
Yeah.
00:13:15.487 --> 00:13:16.417
It's impossible
00:13:16.617 --> 00:13:17.917
being a teacher today.
00:13:18.307 --> 00:13:18.347
Yeah.
00:13:18.627 --> 00:13:23.057
You hear all this stuff, and not just from administration, just constantly like this
00:13:23.057 --> 00:13:24.937
and that, and it's so polarizing every
00:13:24.937 --> 00:13:30.137
single time you turn on the or flip open your feed of like, we just need community members.
00:13:30.137 --> 00:13:31.727
And what we've also seen is
00:13:31.727 --> 00:13:35.907
that teacher, and and this is the really, I think, the thing, at least from my
00:13:35.907 --> 00:13:36.467
side, I know our
00:13:36.467 --> 00:13:40.960
team feels very similar of that teacher that inspires all the peers.
00:13:40.970 --> 00:13:40.990
Yeah.
00:13:41.380 --> 00:13:41.540
And
00:13:41.540 --> 00:13:47.340
we've seen the proof in where one school goes from, "Hey, we're throwing this teacher because he or she crazy,
00:13:47.500 --> 00:13:49.787
Mm and like we don't know what to do with them anymore-" Yeah … to
00:13:50.007 --> 00:13:52.510
now the district is 30 teachers in the program.
00:13:52.520 --> 00:13:52.540
Yeah.
00:13:52.550 --> 00:13:54.309
And like we see that wave
00:13:54.309 --> 00:13:54.449
starting to
00:13:54.858 --> 00:13:55.908
Jethro D. Jones: Yeah, I like that.
00:13:56.158 --> 00:14:00.998
And I especially like that story about the, the garden, 'cause the three schools I was an administrator at- Mm-hmm
00:14:01.008 --> 00:14:02.308
we started a garden in each one.
00:14:02.388 --> 00:14:02.458
Yeah.
00:14:02.658 --> 00:14:06.029
And the thing that's so crazy is that I didn't even mean
00:14:06.029 --> 00:14:06.239
to.
00:14:06.258 --> 00:14:06.458
Yeah.
00:14:06.578 --> 00:14:09.549
Like, it wasn't like I was like, "I really believe in community gardens."
00:14:09.709 --> 00:14:14.619
It was like, no, here's an opportunity, and here's where it fits with these three three very
00:14:14.619 --> 00:14:14.969
different schools."
00:14:15.498 --> 00:14:18.358
One was, uh, inner city in Utah.
00:14:18.518 --> 00:14:18.538
Mm-hmm.
00:14:18.738 --> 00:14:24.039
Uh, one was on an island in Kodiak, Alaska, and one was in, uh, Fairbanks,
00:14:24.039 --> 00:14:24.239
Alaska.
00:14:24.239 --> 00:14:24.858
That's awesome.
00:14:24.858 --> 00:14:27.128
And, like, the thing is, is that these things are
00:14:27.189 --> 00:14:28.898
are so, uh,
00:14:29.318 --> 00:14:29.548
so repeatable-
00:14:29.729 --> 00:14:30.908
repeatable- Mm-hmm … and,
00:14:30.908 --> 00:14:33.098
possible to do in all these different places.
00:14:33.608 --> 00:14:43.899
And the other thing that's great is that when somebody says, "This is what I'm doing," and they share it with their cohort, then and everybody's "Okay, I might not do do that exact thing, but now that makes me think, what else could I do?"
00:14:43.899 --> 00:14:44.739
That's exactly it.
00:14:44.739 --> 00:14:46.679
And, and that network effect of
00:14:46.719 --> 00:14:48.149
people, uh, e-
00:14:48.318 --> 00:14:52.688
e- expanding their horizons what they can do is incredibly powerful and-
00:14:52.698 --> 00:14:52.718
Yeah
00:14:53.018 --> 00:14:53.658
inspiring.
00:14:53.658 --> 00:15:05.498
And when it's not coming from the district saying, "You have to do this," and it's not coming from, uh, the, the saying, "This is a a requirement," Yeah but it's coming from somebody saying, "This is is what I think is be
00:15:05.498 --> 00:15:07.259
the best thing to to humanize education,"
00:15:07.879 --> 00:15:16.369
that super powerful for Yeah the, the peers to see and, and for them to to start emulating that kind of attitude as well.
00:15:16.439 --> 00:15:17.539
Evin Schwarz: Well, but they wanna show
00:15:17.539 --> 00:15:18.369
up the next
00:15:18.369 --> 00:15:18.389
Jethro D. Jones: day.
00:15:18.389 --> 00:15:18.609
Yeah.
00:15:18.809 --> 00:15:19.059
Evin Schwarz: Right?
00:15:19.079 --> 00:15:25.242
Like, if we're looking just really hard facts of how do we keep our great teachers in the building, right?
00:15:25.309 --> 00:15:26.739
And, and a lot of the of the great teachers are going to
00:15:26.739 --> 00:15:27.359
administration
00:15:27.829 --> 00:15:35.669
because principal sup, today I I heard a stat other day, and I've said a lot recently, the average superintendent in your school district lasts two years and two months.
00:15:36.102 --> 00:15:36.382
Jethro D. Jones: Yeah,
00:15:36.432 --> 00:15:37.219
Evin Schwarz: So I I mean, you know
00:15:37.219 --> 00:15:37.489
this.
00:15:37.549 --> 00:15:37.759
Yeah.
00:15:37.979 --> 00:15:39.599
So it takes one year
00:15:39.662 --> 00:15:40.082
culture,
00:15:40.392 --> 00:15:40.929
Mm-hmm right, and
00:15:40.929 --> 00:15:43.559
trust of like, "Who is this person?"
00:15:43.559 --> 00:15:43.879
Yeah.
00:15:43.989 --> 00:15:44.329
Jethro D. Jones: Yeah.
00:15:44.419 --> 00:15:45.739
Evin Schwarz: Year two, maybe you get something in,
00:15:45.989 --> 00:15:46.789
but you can't really
00:15:46.789 --> 00:15:48.649
build culture and community until year three to five.
00:15:48.892 --> 00:15:49.172
Jethro D. Jones: Yeah.
00:15:49.252 --> 00:15:50.772
Evin Schwarz: So you're going like this.
00:15:50.972 --> 00:15:51.112
Yep.
00:15:51.239 --> 00:15:51.749
And then that
00:15:51.749 --> 00:15:52.039
great
00:15:52.039 --> 00:15:54.999
teacher, because they're a teacher, they should naturally
00:15:54.999 --> 00:15:56.429
be administration and lead our school.
00:15:56.879 --> 00:15:57.862
They're not for that.
00:15:57.962 --> 00:15:58.042
Yeah.
00:15:58.209 --> 00:16:00.072
But they're doing it because they put first
00:16:00.342 --> 00:16:01.492
over themselves, and I respect
00:16:01.492 --> 00:16:01.742
the hell
00:16:01.755 --> 00:16:02.103
out of it.
00:16:02.103 --> 00:16:02.219
Yeah.
00:16:02.219 --> 00:16:04.229
But, Yeah …it's not sustainable
00:16:04.279 --> 00:16:06.609
in that way of how do you bring people in
00:16:06.609 --> 00:16:06.859
and get
00:16:06.859 --> 00:16:08.289
them to show up and be passionate, and
00:16:08.652 --> 00:16:09.779
also start introducing
00:16:09.779 --> 00:16:10.289
to community.
00:16:10.299 --> 00:16:10.319
Yeah.
00:16:10.849 --> 00:16:11.229
Like how
00:16:11.229 --> 00:16:20.192
mom, dad, grandpa, grandma, or guardian is going to feel when they have this amazing new experience of teachers showing up where, "Yeah, I want my kids school." Yeah.
00:16:20.229 --> 00:16:20.339
Yeah.
00:16:20.339 --> 00:16:21.319
And if we look at this
00:16:21.359 --> 00:16:29.059
industry, and I know I'm going this way that way, but if we look at the industry of butts in seats- Yeah … is one of the biggest challenges Why are my kids showing up?
00:16:29.169 --> 00:16:29.909
When are they showing up?
00:16:29.969 --> 00:16:31.009
Are they ever showing up?
00:16:31.352 --> 00:16:31.582
Jethro D. Jones: Yeah.
00:16:31.739 --> 00:16:33.349
Evin Schwarz: And schools are having a hard time wrapping their
00:16:33.974 --> 00:16:34.128
Jethro D. Jones: it.
00:16:34.128 --> 00:16:34.458
Yeah.
00:16:34.659 --> 00:16:36.302
And in seats with teachers also.
00:16:36.488 --> 00:16:36.508
Yeah,
00:16:36.508 --> 00:16:36.523
no
00:16:36.523 --> 00:16:36.538
doubt.
00:16:36.538 --> 00:16:36.668
Evin Schwarz: No
00:16:36.668 --> 00:16:36.878
Jethro D. Jones: doubt.
00:16:36.878 --> 00:16:40.228
Because there's a teacher shortage, there's a sub shortage.
00:16:40.238 --> 00:16:40.268
Yep.
00:16:40.538 --> 00:16:51.428
And, uh, and so many times, uh, and and principals are covering- Yeah … the other people in in their building, and which also makes it hard to have continuity.
00:16:51.468 --> 00:16:51.568
Mm-hmm.
00:16:51.838 --> 00:16:53.668
And, And, here's the other thing is
00:16:54.209 --> 00:16:55.158
one of,
00:16:55.228 --> 00:16:57.088
I believe, that humanizing education
00:16:57.289 --> 00:16:57.849
is that-
00:16:59.284 --> 00:16:59.494
In
00:16:59.557 --> 00:17:00.537
my schools, we
00:17:00.537 --> 00:17:01.767
tried to make it so that we didn't
00:17:01.767 --> 00:17:02.848
need a Yeah.
00:17:03.088 --> 00:17:09.368
And so that that if somebody gone, we had a system in place so that if we didn't have a sub- Mm-hmm … we could it.
00:17:09.528 --> 00:17:10.747
And that wasn't possible
00:17:10.747 --> 00:17:11.258
all the Yeah.
00:17:11.258 --> 00:17:11.457
And Yeah.
00:17:11.457 --> 00:17:12.377
Sometimes you needed,
00:17:12.628 --> 00:17:20.148
you need someone in there, but, but being flexible enough- Yeah … to make it so that it wasn't a, a wasted day, basically.
00:17:20.168 --> 00:17:20.188
Mm-hmm.
00:17:20.198 --> 00:17:20.977
Which it often
00:17:20.977 --> 00:17:21.267
is with a sub.
00:17:21.267 --> 00:17:21.477
Yeah,
00:17:21.477 --> 00:17:21.657
no
00:17:21.817 --> 00:17:22.027
Evin Schwarz: doubt.
00:17:22.157 --> 00:17:23.734
I mean, listen, I remember my of like
00:17:24.004 --> 00:17:24.944
rolling a push cart-
00:17:25.234 --> 00:17:25.254
Yeah
00:17:25.254 --> 00:17:25.937
… and here here comes the TV,
00:17:26.204 --> 00:17:26.234
right?
00:17:26.244 --> 00:17:26.264
Yeah.
00:17:26.784 --> 00:17:27.267
I can't
00:17:27.267 --> 00:17:27.777
imagine.
00:17:27.867 --> 00:17:28.227
I know they
00:17:28.287 --> 00:17:28.817
probably don't have that
00:17:28.817 --> 00:17:29.387
anymore, but like
00:17:29.894 --> 00:17:33.057
we're probably not that off from that in like new technology format-
00:17:33.164 --> 00:17:33.554
Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm
00:17:33.674 --> 00:17:35.527
Evin Schwarz: of like open, you know, your, this
00:17:35.537 --> 00:17:36.557
app and like here's- Yeah
00:17:36.637 --> 00:17:37.237
your assignment today.
00:17:37.427 --> 00:17:49.677
Jethro D. Jones: Uh, did… It w- I was… It was somebody else I was to yesterday who said that the way that they they were doing math instruction, uh, was that they would have a, uh, a video that they they would pull up.
00:17:49.878 --> 00:17:56.508
The teacher would hit play, the video would play, and it would be, uh, a teacher explaining the That's thing.
00:17:56.788 --> 00:17:59.978
They'd hit pause and "Okay, discuss," or whatever.
00:18:00.288 --> 00:18:01.117
And I I was like,
00:18:01.137 --> 00:18:02.487
"Are you kidding me?" That's crazy.
00:18:02.797 --> 00:18:03.557
That is just crazy.
00:18:03.557 --> 00:18:04.867
Evin Schwarz: Like, why am I showing up for this?
00:18:04.867 --> 00:18:05.207
Jethro D. Jones: Yeah.
00:18:05.487 --> 00:18:06.067
I, I,
00:18:06.228 --> 00:18:07.028
There's no point.
00:18:07.178 --> 00:18:08.227
I should stay home.
00:18:08.367 --> 00:18:08.607
Evin Schwarz: Absolutely.
00:18:08.827 --> 00:18:11.074
And- Especially when you look on the other side of the of like, and
00:18:11.084 --> 00:18:12.214
we're not just gonna go to the YouTube,
00:18:12.244 --> 00:18:12.374
we're gonna
00:18:12.397 --> 00:18:13.307
not just gonna go to TikTok, or although
00:18:13.367 --> 00:18:14.107
those are real.
00:18:14.297 --> 00:18:14.627
Yeah.
00:18:14.667 --> 00:18:14.967
But
00:18:15.444 --> 00:18:15.887
I have a
00:18:15.887 --> 00:18:18.057
wealth of information in my pocket.
00:18:18.297 --> 00:18:18.607
Jethro D. Jones: Yeah.
00:18:18.607 --> 00:18:21.787
Evin Schwarz: Like I can start that or I can do this job or that job.
00:18:22.007 --> 00:18:22.257
Jethro D. Jones: Yeah.
00:18:22.444 --> 00:18:22.654
Evin Schwarz: it
00:18:22.664 --> 00:18:24.127
doesn't you don't have to You don't have to need a college degree
00:18:24.817 --> 00:18:24.937
Jethro D. Jones: anymore.
00:18:24.947 --> 00:18:24.967
Yeah,
00:18:25.094 --> 00:18:28.547
Evin Schwarz: like it's, we're in for, we're in for a ride- Yeah … over the next few
00:18:28.628 --> 00:18:28.658
Jethro D. Jones: over
00:18:28.658 --> 00:18:29.148
the next few years,
00:18:29.148 --> 00:18:29.288
I
00:18:29.308 --> 00:18:29.518
think.
00:18:29.518 --> 00:18:29.630
Yep.
00:18:29.630 --> 00:18:29.966
I think so.
00:18:29.966 --> 00:18:30.078
Yeah.
00:18:30.078 --> 00:18:33.718
And it's going, it's gonna be a and honestly I'm I'm looking to it.
00:18:33.728 --> 00:18:33.748
Yeah.
00:18:33.748 --> 00:18:34.048
I would agree.
00:18:34.087 --> 00:18:34.247
would agree.
00:18:34.247 --> 00:18:38.557
I, I that positive things are gonna come out of of it- Mm-hmm …even if it hurts a little bit- I
00:18:38.567 --> 00:18:38.797
Evin Schwarz: agree
00:18:38.907 --> 00:18:39.427
… Jethro D. Jones: in the short
00:18:39.427 --> 00:18:39.557
term.
00:18:39.557 --> 00:18:39.717
Evin Schwarz: Yeah.
00:18:39.818 --> 00:18:40.388
need a reset.
00:18:40.388 --> 00:18:40.728
Jethro D. Jones: Yeah.
00:18:40.928 --> 00:18:45.178
Uh, so how do people, if they're hearing this and they're like, "I wanna do something cool.
00:18:45.208 --> 00:18:46.618
I wanna get some extra funding.
00:18:46.848 --> 00:18:49.207
I I wanna education," how do do they
00:18:49.207 --> 00:18:50.264
get connected with Thinkering?
00:18:50.274 --> 00:18:50.864
Evin Schwarz: Great question.
00:18:50.864 --> 00:18:54.797
So thinkeringcollective.org, um, all of our programs are there.
00:18:55.117 --> 00:18:55.347
Uh, we
00:18:55.347 --> 00:19:01.957
have a great Substack that goes out twice a week as well with a boatload of content celebrating teacher voice and innovation and inspiration.
00:19:02.337 --> 00:19:04.527
Uh, go check that out first more than anything.
00:19:04.907 --> 00:19:06.614
Uh, give a subscription on that side too.
00:19:06.614 --> 00:19:07.044
It's free.
00:19:07.437 --> 00:19:10.254
But, um, that's always great to follow along with journey.
00:19:10.677 --> 00:19:11.944
Um, and then reach out, like
00:19:11.944 --> 00:19:13.277
our, our team is everywhere.
00:19:13.297 --> 00:19:14.434
We're loud about it.
00:19:14.444 --> 00:19:14.464
Yeah.
00:19:14.834 --> 00:19:15.567
Uh, a
00:19:15.567 --> 00:19:18.654
little obnoxious about it too, because we believe you need passion.
00:19:18.834 --> 00:19:19.064
Yeah.
00:19:19.174 --> 00:19:20.887
And you need people to show up and
00:19:20.887 --> 00:19:25.954
constantly talk say like, "This isn't right. Something needs change." So thinkeringcollective.org.
00:19:26.017 --> 00:19:27.444
We're we're on Instagram,
00:19:27.464 --> 00:19:29.074
the the whole And then, um, for
00:19:29.147 --> 00:19:29.637
me, reach out.
00:19:29.767 --> 00:19:32.374
I'm on LinkedIn primarily, um, Schwartz.
00:19:32.384 --> 00:19:32.734
and
00:19:32.974 --> 00:19:33.737
looking forward to chatting.
00:19:34.152 --> 00:19:34.582
Jethro D. Jones: Excellent.
00:19:34.592 --> 00:19:35.442
Thank you very much for being
00:19:35.545 --> 00:19:35.997
Evin Schwarz: Appreciate it, man.
00:19:36.057 --> 00:19:36.547
Always a pleasure.
00:19:36.592 --> 00:19:36.622
Jethro D. Jones: Always a pleasure.
NOTE
This file was generated by Descript
00:00:00.049 --> 00:00:02.099
Pete Hall: Welcome to the Transformative Principal.
00:00:02.129 --> 00:00:06.319
I am so excited to share this interview from ISTE 2026 with you.
00:00:06.859 --> 00:00:08.509
Really fascinating things happening there.
00:00:08.509 --> 00:00:14.419
Lots of great people, and over the course of the next couple weeks, you're gonna hear some of these great interviews.
00:00:14.774 --> 00:00:18.404
Hope you enjoy, and thanks for listening to Transformative Principal
00:00:18.726 --> 00:00:23.676
Jethro D. Jones: All right, Evan Schwartz, ISTE ASCD 2026.
00:00:23.676 --> 00:00:24.096
Welcome.
00:00:24.096 --> 00:00:24.686
Thanks for being
00:00:24.808 --> 00:00:25.166
Evin Schwarz: Appreciate
00:00:25.166 --> 00:00:25.226
it.
00:00:25.287 --> 00:00:25.777
Jethro D. Jones: Great to be here.
00:00:25.784 --> 00:00:25.876
Evin Schwarz: here.
00:00:25.876 --> 00:00:26.856
Jethro D. Jones: Yeah, I'm excited.
00:00:26.866 --> 00:00:35.076
Um, so, uh, you run Thinkering, also Beluga, but Thinkering, uh, and B Podcast Network are, are partners.
00:00:35.236 --> 00:00:37.656
Talk to us about why that's a good fit for
00:00:37.797 --> 00:00:37.997
you.
00:00:38.267 --> 00:00:38.617
Evin Schwarz: Yeah,
00:00:38.676 --> 00:00:41.597
and Jethro, first of all, I think is-- How long have we known each other?
00:00:41.837 --> 00:00:42.782
Maybe I-
00:00:42.782 --> 00:00:43.377
Eight
00:00:43.377 --> 00:00:43.557
Jethro D. Jones: Eight
00:00:43.886 --> 00:00:44.126
Evin Schwarz: Yeah.
00:00:44.146 --> 00:00:44.516
We're going
00:00:44.516 --> 00:00:44.666
on.
00:00:44.666 --> 00:00:46.887
And this is the the first, I think, IRL,
00:00:46.917 --> 00:00:47.666
which amazing.
00:00:47.676 --> 00:00:48.117
Yes, Yes, I know.
00:00:48.127 --> 00:00:49.007
So I'm super pumped about that.
00:00:49.007 --> 00:00:49.267
Jethro D. Jones: Yeah.
00:00:49.577 --> 00:00:51.946
Evin Schwarz: Um, so Thinkering and B, and B, I mean,
00:00:51.946 --> 00:00:52.807
like it was a natural fit.
00:00:52.926 --> 00:00:55.073
like knowing you and Ross Mm on that side and
00:00:55.073 --> 00:00:56.047
the work that you're doing,
00:00:56.316 --> 00:00:57.586
uh, just projecting voice.
00:00:58.036 --> 00:00:59.387
And I think even walking around
00:00:59.387 --> 00:01:00.367
this conference this week and,
00:01:00.416 --> 00:01:04.467
and, you know, a few of the other conferences this year, uh, voice is needed you know, more than ever
00:01:04.467 --> 00:01:04.687
before.
00:01:05.157 --> 00:01:05.327
Yeah.
00:01:05.327 --> 00:01:05.377
I
00:01:05.526 --> 00:01:08.857
teachers are lonely, admins are lonely, and people wanna find their
00:01:08.857 --> 00:01:09.457
community.
00:01:09.937 --> 00:01:10.707
Uh, for us,
00:01:11.097 --> 00:01:11.217
we're
00:01:11.217 --> 00:01:15.367
sitting on that community of inspiration and innovators that
00:01:15.476 --> 00:01:16.136
seen just like
00:01:16.327 --> 00:01:18.927
we've seen just, like, really flock to what we're trying to do at Thinkering,
00:01:19.436 --> 00:01:20.427
which is humanize
00:01:20.427 --> 00:01:20.897
education.
00:01:21.246 --> 00:01:26.126
Mm. And it's this loaded saying, crunchy granola and the whole nine, uh, but the neat thing we have
00:01:26.177 --> 00:01:28.877
now is all of them should be heard.
00:01:29.387 --> 00:01:29.627
Yeah.
00:01:29.697 --> 00:01:31.207
And not just with our internal team.
00:01:31.207 --> 00:01:31.337
They
00:01:31.337 --> 00:01:32.427
go through our process.
00:01:32.817 --> 00:01:33.827
They're celebrated locally.
00:01:33.827 --> 00:01:37.917
But this innovation and inspiration for everyone else out there in the industry, too.
00:01:38.427 --> 00:01:38.507
Yeah.
00:01:38.717 --> 00:01:42.932
So when that teacher's sitting in their classroom and saying like, "I can't do it," right?
00:01:43.012 --> 00:01:44.347
Garrett, one of our other founders
00:01:44.417 --> 00:01:46.992
always says like, "But what?" All Right?
00:01:46.992 --> 00:01:48.022
Like, what comes next after after
00:01:48.022 --> 00:01:48.232
this?
00:01:48.232 --> 00:01:49.792
Like, let's eliminate the excuses.
00:01:49.802 --> 00:01:50.262
Mm. If there
00:01:50.297 --> 00:01:51.507
was no red tape we wouldn't say.
00:01:51.857 --> 00:01:54.157
So for us, we're trying to project that.
00:01:54.642 --> 00:01:55.077
I mean, if you
00:01:55.077 --> 00:01:57.187
look at our Substack and some of our media in-house
00:01:57.282 --> 00:01:58.282
we have, uh,
00:01:58.287 --> 00:01:58.687
that we have, uh, it's all teachers.
00:01:59.032 --> 00:02:01.737
Mm. It's all teacher voice that we're trying to push as much as possible.
00:02:02.087 --> 00:02:02.647
Through B,
00:02:03.272 --> 00:02:05.307
we found a a home that's external-
00:02:05.757 --> 00:02:06.007
Jethro D. Jones: Yeah
00:02:06.057 --> 00:02:08.297
… Evin Schwarz: where we're able to now say… I mean, I was talking
00:02:08.297 --> 00:02:09.607
to, I forget the exact podcast
00:02:09.607 --> 00:02:10.877
property, the Catholic School one.
00:02:11.117 --> 00:02:11.397
Jethro D. Jones: Yeah.
00:02:11.397 --> 00:02:12.192
Evin Schwarz: Catholic School Leaders.
00:02:12.192 --> 00:02:13.107
Yeah, Catholic School Leaders.
00:02:13.107 --> 00:02:13.187
Yep.
00:02:13.627 --> 00:02:17.732
Like, we have an amazing Catholic school educator that just our program in the Bay
00:02:17.777 --> 00:02:19.747
Area, and she's the perfect example of this.
00:02:19.752 --> 00:02:20.112
of this.
00:02:20.312 --> 00:02:20.522
Jethro D. Jones: Yeah.
00:02:20.532 --> 00:02:23.622
Evin Schwarz: Where we could celebrate her and send her out through stuff, it should
00:02:23.667 --> 00:02:25.357
also go to a targeted community- Yeah
00:02:25.662 --> 00:02:25.892
Jethro D. Jones: Yeah
00:02:25.952 --> 00:02:26.202
… Evin Schwarz: that
00:02:26.202 --> 00:02:31.677
could say, "I know exactly how you're feeling and what you're going through, and this is who else can be part of this program."
00:02:31.912 --> 00:02:31.932
Yeah.
00:02:32.232 --> 00:02:34.117
So I think just the diversity that you guys
00:02:34.117 --> 00:02:34.477
have built- Yeah
00:02:35.022 --> 00:02:35.152
Jethro D. Jones: Yeah
00:02:35.222 --> 00:02:37.907
… Evin Schwarz: from a a voice perspective ev- everything we're looking for and more.
00:02:38.098 --> 00:02:38.428
Jethro D. Jones: Yeah.
00:02:38.468 --> 00:02:45.088
Well, and what our perspective is, we want a podcast for everybody, no matter where they're at
00:02:45.137 --> 00:02:45.907
at in education.
00:02:45.957 --> 00:02:46.067
Yep.
00:02:46.367 --> 00:02:47.117
So whether,
00:02:47.298 --> 00:02:49.878
whatever your role is, want you to have a podcast that
00:02:50.047 --> 00:02:51.977
that helps you become the best- Yeah … that you can be.
00:02:52.318 --> 00:02:52.878
And,
00:02:53.198 --> 00:02:55.537
and a podcast is a really great way to do that
00:02:55.687 --> 00:02:55.977
because
00:02:56.538 --> 00:02:57.358
asynchronous.
00:02:57.368 --> 00:02:58.608
You can do it on your own time.
00:02:58.618 --> 00:03:00.158
You don't need anybody's permission.
00:03:00.478 --> 00:03:07.138
And what we want is for if we don't have a podcast in that area, we want somebody to say, "Hey, I'll do the Yeah.
00:03:07.188 --> 00:03:12.557
And we wanna provide that, and that's, that's, what we wanna get to, is have that available for for everybody.
00:03:12.732 --> 00:03:12.992
Evin Schwarz: let me ask
00:03:13.002 --> 00:03:15.767
you something on that, and I'm, uh, the script a little here as cool.
00:03:15.767 --> 00:03:16.067
That's cool.
00:03:16.222 --> 00:03:16.562
Cool.
00:03:16.562 --> 00:03:17.357
But you sparked an
00:03:17.357 --> 00:03:17.667
idea.
00:03:18.133 --> 00:03:18.643
So
00:03:19.023 --> 00:03:19.933
we see so many
00:03:19.933 --> 00:03:21.663
teachers that are so intimidated by it.
00:03:21.732 --> 00:03:22.002
by it.
00:03:22.182 --> 00:03:22.462
Jethro D. Jones: Yeah.
00:03:22.522 --> 00:03:22.732
Evin Schwarz: Right?
00:03:22.773 --> 00:03:22.893
And
00:03:22.893 --> 00:03:23.983
I- it's hard, right?
00:03:23.983 --> 00:03:24.133
Like,
00:03:24.143 --> 00:03:24.803
it takes commitment.
00:03:24.813 --> 00:03:31.003
But everything takes commitment- That's right … I would love to know the data of how many people, not education, but in general
00:03:31.872 --> 00:03:35.265
do three podcasts and then probably say this is enough because no one's coming.
00:03:35.565 --> 00:03:35.635
Yeah.
00:03:35.635 --> 00:03:40.656
But like from a teacher perspective and things that we're discussing with our community, like what's the
00:03:40.656 --> 00:03:40.993
secret?
00:03:40.993 --> 00:03:41.329
Yeah.
00:03:41.546 --> 00:03:50.736
Jethro D. Jones: Well, well, here's the thing is you, uh, doing a podcast, you have to… You're not gonna be like, uh, Joe Rogan, right?
00:03:50.736 --> 00:03:50.756
Mm-hmm.
00:03:50.766 --> 00:03:52.936
You're not gonna be like, uh, the Kelsey
00:03:53.125 --> 00:03:56.665
Brothers and and this amazing thing thing that is,
00:03:56.876 --> 00:03:57.036
you
00:03:57.036 --> 00:03:59.465
know, getting millions of sponsorships- Right … and all all that kind of stuff.
00:03:59.736 --> 00:04:01.776
And so especially in education- Mm-hmm
00:04:01.976 --> 00:04:06.026
what you have to have is a desire to continue to teach- Yep … the next generation.
00:04:06.026 --> 00:04:06.176
Yep.
00:04:06.246 --> 00:04:08.106
Which is, which is what it comes down to.
00:04:08.106 --> 00:04:09.236
And if that's what you wanna do.
00:04:09.246 --> 00:04:09.266
Yeah.
00:04:09.476 --> 00:04:14.165
So, so get this, I, I, I interviewed somebody here at ISTE yesterday.
00:04:14.225 --> 00:04:14.615
Mm-hmm.
00:04:14.625 --> 00:04:17.086
And he-- and I said, "Hey, nice to meet you.
00:04:17.086 --> 00:04:22.976
I'm Jethro." And he said, "I'm Kevin, but I I know you because I've been listening to your podcast since 2016."
00:04:23.436 --> 00:04:25.696
This guy, I don't know if he's ever bought one of my books.
00:04:25.706 --> 00:04:25.726
Yeah.
00:04:25.746 --> 00:04:27.366
He hasn't come to any of my trainings.
00:04:27.386 --> 00:04:28.725
I've never met him before.
00:04:29.145 --> 00:04:29.485
But
00:04:30.096 --> 00:04:32.525
when he was deciding whether or not to be be a principal,
00:04:32.746 --> 00:04:35.595
…he found my podcast and has been listening to it ever since.
00:04:35.665 --> 00:04:41.136
That's And like what's so awesome about that is that you can make an impact- Yeah
00:04:41.146 --> 00:04:44.866
and not even know about it, which is really a cool thing to be able to do.
00:04:44.876 --> 00:04:44.896
Yeah.
00:04:45.446 --> 00:04:51.395
But the other thing that's so valuable is that it's not just about helping others, but about clarifying your own
00:04:51.415 --> 00:04:51.605
thinking.
00:04:51.655 --> 00:04:52.035
Evin Schwarz: I agree.
00:04:52.195 --> 00:04:52.675
It's voice, right?
00:04:52.695 --> 00:04:53.055
Jethro D. Jones: Yeah.
00:04:53.055 --> 00:04:53.175
Yeah.
00:04:53.175 --> 00:04:53.735
And so
00:04:53.806 --> 00:04:58.756
when you get behind a microphone and you start talking about what you believe, you're allowed to change your mind.
00:04:58.766 --> 00:04:58.786
Yeah.
00:04:58.986 --> 00:04:59.986
You're allowed to grow and
00:04:59.986 --> 00:05:00.446
develop.
00:05:00.456 --> 00:05:00.486
Mm-hmm.
00:05:00.806 --> 00:05:02.785
But the thing is, is that when you say
00:05:02.785 --> 00:05:04.045
it, you, and
00:05:04.045 --> 00:05:07.616
especially in that's gonna be put out to other people, you're committing to it.
00:05:07.636 --> 00:05:13.756
And what that actually does is that forces you to say to yourself, "Is this what I really believe?" For sure.
00:05:13.826 --> 00:05:17.466
And, and that process of going through that is so powerful.
00:05:17.476 --> 00:05:17.506
Mm-hmm.
00:05:17.516 --> 00:05:21.665
And where I wanted to go next was tell me about the process that that you
00:05:21.665 --> 00:05:23.345
put te- uh, educators through.
00:05:23.645 --> 00:05:24.635
What does that look like
00:05:24.696 --> 00:05:25.236
Thinkering?
00:05:25.456 --> 00:05:31.645
Because I think that it is the perfect on-ramp- Mm-hmm … to what, to starting a podcast right after you're done with that.
00:05:31.725 --> 00:05:32.115
Evin Schwarz: Yeah.
00:05:32.115 --> 00:05:32.395
And
00:05:32.395 --> 00:05:32.665
that's what we love too.
00:05:32.665 --> 00:05:33.355
Or in the pro- the
00:05:33.355 --> 00:05:33.665
Jethro D. Jones: middle of it.
00:05:33.945 --> 00:05:35.845
Evin Schwarz: So on our side, um, I mean,
00:05:35.855 --> 00:05:36.975
really started Thinkering,
00:05:37.385 --> 00:05:37.705
a lot of
00:05:37.705 --> 00:05:38.515
ideation.
00:05:38.895 --> 00:05:39.585
Um, I joke, I
00:05:39.595 --> 00:05:39.995
think it was my
00:05:39.995 --> 00:05:40.805
midlife crisis
00:05:40.862 --> 00:05:41.342
ultimately.
00:05:41.425 --> 00:05:41.685
Yeah.
00:05:41.785 --> 00:05:42.765
There'll probably be another one
00:05:42.765 --> 00:05:45.235
too, but like- …what, are, what are are we doing
00:05:45.372 --> 00:05:45.972
ultimately, right?
00:05:45.972 --> 00:05:49.575
Like we're sitting here for, on a Beluga side, you know, for-profit.
00:05:49.715 --> 00:05:50.645
We're selling to schools.
00:05:50.645 --> 00:05:51.145
We're growing.
00:05:51.212 --> 00:05:52.975
like what are are we really doing?
00:05:52.975 --> 00:05:53.585
We're in education.
00:05:53.885 --> 00:05:54.115
Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm.
00:05:54.125 --> 00:05:56.425
Evin Schwarz: And if we're not moving mountains, and the mountains could be one kid.
00:05:56.985 --> 00:05:57.005
Yeah.
00:05:57.092 --> 00:05:57.502
It doesn't matter.
00:05:57.512 --> 00:05:57.562
Micro.
00:05:57.752 --> 00:05:57.952
But
00:05:57.962 --> 00:05:58.862
it's it's changing.
00:05:58.862 --> 00:06:00.162
I'm always the worst with that.
00:06:00.512 --> 00:06:03.875
Um, but on that side of it, what do we need to do to make a difference?
00:06:04.562 --> 00:06:05.525
So we started looking and
00:06:05.525 --> 00:06:06.815
saying like, "Who needs help
00:06:06.815 --> 00:06:09.555
in education?" everyone needs help, but we have to go to teachers
00:06:09.555 --> 00:06:09.725
first though.
00:06:10.442 --> 00:06:16.525
If we're really thinking about North Star, we want every child to have the best education experience possible, it experience possible, it has to start
00:06:16.525 --> 00:06:16.995
with teachers.
00:06:17.182 --> 00:06:20.012
Mm. And we know the retention rates and the attrition rates and the burnout are the
00:06:20.125 --> 00:06:20.335
are real.
00:06:20.335 --> 00:06:22.025
right?
00:06:22.025 --> 00:06:22.075
50% plus at this point.
00:06:22.653 --> 00:06:23.182
What to do
00:06:23.672 --> 00:06:28.293
We said, "Who can we go first from an an educator perspective?" Your on-ramp is is those types
00:06:28.293 --> 00:06:28.763
of people,
00:06:29.133 --> 00:06:31.852
the outliers, the innovators, and it's not for them.
00:06:31.863 --> 00:06:32.133
We want
00:06:32.133 --> 00:06:32.653
it for everyone,
00:06:33.102 --> 00:06:33.352
but
00:06:33.372 --> 00:06:34.333
they're early adopters.
00:06:34.392 --> 00:06:34.572
Yep.
00:06:34.732 --> 00:06:39.313
What we also found really quickly was it's really difficult being those people in a a school
00:06:39.653 --> 00:06:39.833
Jethro D. Jones: Yep.
00:06:39.953 --> 00:06:40.503
It sure is.
00:06:40.563 --> 00:06:40.733
Right?
00:06:40.813 --> 00:06:41.698
I got a lot to about that.
00:06:41.788 --> 00:06:42.028
Evin Schwarz: Yep.
00:06:42.078 --> 00:06:43.628
I mean, we get to go deep on that.
00:06:43.633 --> 00:06:43.663
one.
00:06:43.663 --> 00:06:43.683
Yeah.
00:06:43.683 --> 00:06:43.833
I love
00:06:43.833 --> 00:06:44.293
this topic.
00:06:44.293 --> 00:06:44.723
Yeah.
00:06:44.723 --> 00:06:45.893
But they're
00:06:45.953 --> 00:06:49.538
anonymous, and it's, "Hey, Mr. and Mrs. XYZ,"
00:06:49.538 --> 00:06:49.788
whatever you
00:06:49.788 --> 00:06:50.623
wanna call it, "Stay in in
00:06:50.623 --> 00:06:50.903
your lane."
00:06:51.248 --> 00:06:51.678
Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm.
00:06:51.898 --> 00:06:52.128
Evin Schwarz: Right?
00:06:52.128 --> 00:06:56.743
Like, we're gonna go back to the Yeah … or we're gonna do the assessment, and we can't afford
00:06:56.743 --> 00:06:56.763
to
00:06:56.808 --> 00:06:58.285
lose these people in in the industry.
00:06:58.285 --> 00:06:58.529
Jethro D. Jones: Yeah.
00:06:58.529 --> 00:07:01.298
Evin Schwarz: Like, they're there because 20 faces smile at them every
00:07:01.298 --> 00:07:01.568
day,
00:07:02.088 --> 00:07:03.243
and they'll remember that
00:07:03.243 --> 00:07:04.198
person for the rest of their
00:07:04.398 --> 00:07:06.273
And I, I… As I said, I know that one person-
00:07:06.673 --> 00:07:07.913
Yeah ……right, from my own childhood.
00:07:08.003 --> 00:07:08.023
Yeah.
00:07:08.283 --> 00:07:08.393
I
00:07:08.393 --> 00:07:11.133
wish it was 50, but it was teacher that believed
00:07:11.133 --> 00:07:14.053
and made it fun to show up, and this is before
00:07:14.323 --> 00:07:16.023
social media and technology and AI and
00:07:16.023 --> 00:07:16.383
this one.
00:07:16.693 --> 00:07:17.213
Now, it's the
00:07:17.213 --> 00:07:17.873
opportunity cost.
00:07:18.048 --> 00:07:18.853
of why am I coming
00:07:18.853 --> 00:07:18.923
to school
00:07:19.533 --> 00:07:19.903
as a kid,
00:07:19.903 --> 00:07:20.103
right?
00:07:20.138 --> 00:07:20.278
is
00:07:20.468 --> 00:07:20.833
a whole
00:07:20.833 --> 00:07:21.703
other ball of wax, which
00:07:21.963 --> 00:07:22.403
that's another
00:07:22.403 --> 00:07:23.233
conversation, I think.
00:07:23.673 --> 00:07:24.573
But going in,
00:07:25.178 --> 00:07:26.163
we said, let's bring them together-
00:07:26.188 --> 00:07:33.553
Mm …and let's surround them with a mentor who could guide the process, and just as of curriculum and program is complaining,
00:07:33.833 --> 00:07:34.143
Right?
00:07:34.143 --> 00:07:35.043
Our pro- we're human.
00:07:35.078 --> 00:07:35.308
Like,
00:07:35.498 --> 00:07:36.833
it's hard being in education today.
00:07:37.478 --> 00:07:38.543
Let's really dive in.
00:07:38.873 --> 00:07:40.703
We bring them through a 10-week virtual experience.
00:07:41.283 --> 00:07:44.288
They're in cohort format, so teachers work up to 12 other
00:07:44.353 --> 00:07:44.753
educators.
00:07:44.753 --> 00:07:45.793
10 to 12 is really our
00:07:45.793 --> 00:07:46.413
magic number.
00:07:46.803 --> 00:07:49.233
Um, depending on our program, we have about eight programs
00:07:49.233 --> 00:07:49.773
right now.
00:07:49.863 --> 00:07:50.303
By the end of
00:07:50.303 --> 00:07:50.678
the year, we'll have
00:07:50.678 --> 00:07:51.508
12 programs,
00:07:51.908 --> 00:07:52.538
uh, that run
00:07:52.538 --> 00:07:53.263
throughout the year.
00:07:53.718 --> 00:08:03.593
Um, we generally see, about two hours a week of programming, so not a heavy lift at all, but these are coming are coming from all different walks of life, knowing heart on
00:08:03.593 --> 00:08:04.173
their sleeve
00:08:04.738 --> 00:08:05.383
why they got into
00:08:05.383 --> 00:08:06.013
the industry.
00:08:06.653 --> 00:08:10.648
Uh, there's multiple workshops we pop open throughout this, uh, and we want it feel
00:08:10.733 --> 00:08:11.083
exclusive.
00:08:11.253 --> 00:08:12.738
We it to feel like a community
00:08:13.018 --> 00:08:14.263
when they're there of I could go
00:08:14.263 --> 00:08:16.043
to person that I never would've gotten a
00:08:16.043 --> 00:08:16.708
chance to with.
00:08:17.028 --> 00:08:18.898
Like walking around this state, some of the
00:08:18.898 --> 00:08:19.868
keynotes and big
00:08:19.868 --> 00:08:21.403
stage speakers are our mentors-
00:08:21.573 --> 00:08:21.743
Mm-hmm.
00:08:21.743 --> 00:08:22.603
Yeah ………and our partners,
00:08:22.958 --> 00:08:23.978
and, like, I, I saw it.
00:08:23.978 --> 00:08:25.863
You know, the teachers wait at the end of the session,
00:08:25.863 --> 00:08:28.243
but they shouldn't have to just wait on one question.
00:08:28.493 --> 00:08:28.583
Yeah.
00:08:28.583 --> 00:08:30.153
It's like, let's make people accessible.
00:08:30.153 --> 00:08:31.223
There's so much knowledge
00:08:31.613 --> 00:08:31.833
that we
00:08:31.833 --> 00:08:33.363
all hold, and by the end of
00:08:33.363 --> 00:08:34.143
10 weeks, of really
00:08:34.143 --> 00:08:38.583
where all the magic in, is we turn to the educator and say, "What's your project
00:08:38.833 --> 00:08:40.503
on humanizing education in your
00:08:40.503 --> 00:08:40.813
own community?"
00:08:41.188 --> 00:08:41.658
Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm.
00:08:41.878 --> 00:08:42.068
Evin Schwarz: They
00:08:42.123 --> 00:08:42.793
build throughout this.
00:08:42.943 --> 00:08:43.743
Every week goes build, build, build.
00:08:43.838 --> 00:08:44.068
build it, build it.
00:08:45.244 --> 00:08:45.721
Nine out of of
00:08:45.721 --> 00:08:45.991
10
00:08:46.011 --> 00:08:48.644
times we then turn back and say, "Let's make happen." Yeah.
00:08:49.184 --> 00:08:50.021
And that's that's where I
00:08:50.051 --> 00:08:51.171
think we separate completely.
00:08:51.664 --> 00:08:51.694
Right.
00:08:51.764 --> 00:08:53.801
Where great professional development, don't get
00:08:53.801 --> 00:08:54.031
me wrong,
00:08:54.584 --> 00:08:56.174
it elevates its community.
00:08:56.224 --> 00:08:57.074
It's a feel-good.
00:08:57.074 --> 00:08:57.894
We have the badges and the
00:08:57.894 --> 00:08:58.604
certificates
00:08:58.604 --> 00:09:00.631
and the state credits that we're approved for.
00:09:00.971 --> 00:09:01.781
Uh, but there's a lot of those
00:09:01.781 --> 00:09:02.281
organizations.
00:09:02.814 --> 00:09:07.781
Where we came to life saying, "What if we actually made these made these ideas happen?" Mm-hmm.
00:09:07.781 --> 00:09:10.954
So as a nonprofit, we then go out and raise capital for these
00:09:10.964 --> 00:09:16.524
projects, and the average cost we see anywhere from $4,000, $5,000 to make these projects happen.
00:09:16.854 --> 00:09:20.361
Uh, bigger tickets, we had one educator that said, "I need a
00:09:20.361 --> 00:09:20.701
bus,
00:09:21.224 --> 00:09:24.914
and I wanna bring technology to rural We said, "Great. Let's make this happen," right?
00:09:24.914 --> 00:09:26.561
Like- Yeah … we want these crazy ideas.
00:09:26.571 --> 00:09:31.971
And Then another teacher the other day said, "We're gonna do slam poetry to really have a
00:09:31.971 --> 00:09:32.531
district-wide
00:09:32.531 --> 00:09:34.911
initiative literacy, bring community together."
00:09:35.114 --> 00:09:38.151
And she's like, "Uh, we need I'm, probably need more than $80." Yeah.
00:09:38.161 --> 00:09:39.461
But, like, let's make
00:09:39.461 --> 00:09:39.861
this happen
00:09:40.171 --> 00:09:40.441
ultimately.
00:09:40.441 --> 00:09:40.461
Yeah.
00:09:41.001 --> 00:09:44.294
So not only are we looking at the capital part of it, but then bringing
00:09:44.461 --> 00:09:46.424
in subject matter experts from our community.
00:09:46.424 --> 00:09:46.774
Today, we
00:09:46.774 --> 00:09:48.414
have over 200 incredible
00:09:48.414 --> 00:09:51.651
organizations in our community, BE being one of them as well, and
00:09:51.651 --> 00:09:52.171
researchers.
00:09:52.804 --> 00:09:53.341
And our
00:09:53.341 --> 00:09:54.181
big-picture vision
00:09:54.251 --> 00:09:55.244
is the next five-ish
00:09:55.244 --> 00:09:56.751
years and plus, hopefully this goes
00:09:56.781 --> 00:09:57.181
for a very
00:09:57.181 --> 00:09:58.461
long time, but how do we bring
00:09:58.494 --> 00:09:59.351
tens of thousands of
00:09:59.351 --> 00:09:59.871
educators from
00:10:00.331 --> 00:10:00.781
all around the
00:10:00.781 --> 00:10:01.031
world,
00:10:01.411 --> 00:10:03.461
show what, one, passion and heart
00:10:03.861 --> 00:10:06.401
lead to, but then give the rest of the community
00:10:08.164 --> 00:10:08.424
Not
00:10:08.483 --> 00:10:08.603
the
00:10:08.603 --> 00:10:09.373
outliers or the
00:10:09.373 --> 00:10:11.093
innovators, which I believe every
00:10:11.093 --> 00:10:13.393
teacher can be under the right circumstances.
00:10:13.753 --> 00:10:14.033
But let's
00:10:14.033 --> 00:10:16.053
show them the stories and the innovation and
00:10:16.163 --> 00:10:16.823
inspiration
00:10:17.214 --> 00:10:17.384
in
00:10:17.443 --> 00:10:19.494
formats that adapt and adopt to
00:10:19.494 --> 00:10:21.943
their own demographics and affluent status and
00:10:21.983 --> 00:10:22.803
poverty and this and that.
00:10:23.163 --> 00:10:23.183
Yeah.
00:10:23.293 --> 00:10:24.093
So that's, um, that's
00:10:24.093 --> 00:10:24.663
our process.
00:10:24.852 --> 00:10:27.603
Jethro D. Jones: Well, uh, here's, here's something crazy to to think
00:10:27.603 --> 00:10:27.883
about.
00:10:28.882 --> 00:10:32.982
Is $80 really what's holding that teacher back from doing the poetry slam?
00:10:34.112 --> 00:10:34.446
It's not at all.
00:10:34.446 --> 00:10:35.143
I mean, that's the thing, like-
00:10:35.143 --> 00:10:35.163
So
00:10:35.283 --> 00:10:35.823
Evin Schwarz: I love that
00:10:35.888 --> 00:10:36.032
that up.
00:10:36.032 --> 00:10:36.442
Jethro D. Jones: Yeah.
00:10:36.682 --> 00:10:39.562
Because it-- Money, once
00:10:39.713 --> 00:10:40.123
you,
00:10:40.712 --> 00:10:47.963
once you can articulate what you're doing and can say what the value is, then the the can appear pretty easily, to be be honest.
00:10:48.153 --> 00:10:48.433
For sure.
00:10:48.443 --> 00:10:48.823
And,
00:10:49.122 --> 00:10:54.583
and so a lot of teachers think that, that we just don't have access to capital- Mm-hmm.
00:10:54.703 --> 00:10:55.802
Yep … in Yep … in education.
00:10:55.802 --> 00:10:58.252
And the reality is that we totally do.
00:10:58.262 --> 00:10:58.292
Yep.
00:10:58.322 --> 00:11:14.393
And you just need to have a, have a have a good idea that somebody can get behind, and then then find someone who cares about that, and, and that's what
what you're showing because of your connections and people you know, and, and the history and the, and the collective and and all that kind of stuff.
00:11:14.842 --> 00:11:21.732
But the the other thing is, once that teacher knows that she can can do that, she doesn't to come to you for the $80.
00:11:21.732 --> 00:11:21.982
Yep.
00:11:21.982 --> 00:11:27.142
She can go to somebody else in her community who's like, "Hey, you have a coffee Yeah.
00:11:27.332 --> 00:11:32.862
"And we wanna do slam poetry here at at your coffee shop." And the coffee shop will be like, "Oh yeah, that'd be great.
00:11:32.862 --> 00:11:33.302
Please.
00:11:33.682 --> 00:11:38.792
Uh, we would love to have-- We would love a reason for 100 customers to come to our-" And kids.
00:11:38.953 --> 00:11:39.053
"… business
00:11:39.053 --> 00:11:39.623
on that day." And kids.
00:11:40.132 --> 00:11:40.723
And kids.
00:11:40.733 --> 00:11:40.933
Right?
00:11:41.023 --> 00:11:41.563
Yeah, totally.
00:11:41.713 --> 00:11:41.873
So that's
00:11:41.873 --> 00:11:42.118
powerful.
00:11:42.118 --> 00:11:42.363
Yeah.
00:11:42.363 --> 00:11:42.383
So
00:11:42.643 --> 00:11:46.370
Evin Schwarz: I love how you just said that, one, it's not about the money, that we say.
00:11:46.440 --> 00:11:46.640
Yeah.
00:11:46.753 --> 00:11:51.260
And we always say from a funding side, we get this question all the time of like, "What does it look like term?" Yeah.
00:11:51.353 --> 00:11:53.333
Well, long-term is we want this to be
00:11:53.333 --> 00:11:53.643
sustainable.
00:11:53.643 --> 00:11:53.953
Right?
00:11:53.953 --> 00:11:56.543
Like we want this… You can come back to us all the time.
00:11:56.543 --> 00:11:57.003
We want that.
00:11:57.003 --> 00:11:58.543
But we also want it, when that
00:11:58.543 --> 00:11:59.033
teacher leaves,
00:11:59.033 --> 00:11:59.823
I'll give you a great example.
00:12:00.243 --> 00:12:02.983
We had a teacher in Colorado recently come to us, and
00:12:03.380 --> 00:12:03.950
she left her
00:12:03.950 --> 00:12:05.343
district a long a long time ago.
00:12:05.343 --> 00:12:05.773
She put in,
00:12:05.773 --> 00:12:06.233
like, this whole
00:12:06.293 --> 00:12:06.793
koi pond.
00:12:07.020 --> 00:12:07.250
Mm-hmm.
00:12:07.340 --> 00:12:07.853
Spent a a lot
00:12:07.853 --> 00:12:08.143
of time.
00:12:08.143 --> 00:12:08.690
Kids it.
00:12:08.970 --> 00:12:11.370
She went on maternity leave, came back, and there was over the koi pond.
00:12:11.670 --> 00:12:11.820
Oh
00:12:12.103 --> 00:12:12.393
my gosh.
00:12:12.633 --> 00:12:12.803
So
00:12:13.103 --> 00:12:13.703
That's crazy
00:12:13.713 --> 00:12:15.253
You can imagine how she felt coming back.
00:12:15.253 --> 00:12:15.273
Yeah.
00:12:15.273 --> 00:12:16.343
She changed schools pretty quickly.
00:12:16.343 --> 00:12:23.503
I was like… But on that side, she was a fellow recently us, came in and created a school garden, so she has that outdoor thumb.
00:12:23.520 --> 00:12:23.540
Yeah.
00:12:23.540 --> 00:12:23.890
Yep.
00:12:23.890 --> 00:12:23.910
Mm-hmm.
00:12:23.920 --> 00:12:27.283
But she did it for the right not just, "Hey, we wanna create, you
00:12:27.320 --> 00:12:27.620
kids
00:12:27.620 --> 00:12:28.350
in the dirt and playing,"
00:12:28.403 --> 00:12:29.740
which is so important, don't get wrong.
00:12:30.203 --> 00:12:32.903
But she did it because where they live is a food desert.
00:12:33.703 --> 00:12:34.603
There's no fresh
00:12:34.633 --> 00:12:35.093
produce.
00:12:35.103 --> 00:12:35.123
Yeah.
00:12:35.200 --> 00:12:37.273
fresh produce Yeah …families struggle in that
00:12:37.273 --> 00:12:37.673
sense.
00:12:38.010 --> 00:12:38.430
There's
00:12:38.570 --> 00:12:39.470
childhood diabetes
00:12:39.470 --> 00:12:39.800
rates.
00:12:40.290 --> 00:12:45.633
And she said, "What we're gonna do is we're gonna focus on first. We're gonna get them and hands-on," and and we know what that engagement does.
00:12:45.633 --> 00:12:45.693
Yeah.
00:12:45.693 --> 00:12:46.090
Just does-" Yeah
00:12:46.100 --> 00:12:47.003
just data alone.
00:12:47.783 --> 00:12:50.893
From there, though, we're gonna take it from courtyard to cafeteria.
00:12:51.093 --> 00:12:51.263
Wow.
00:12:51.663 --> 00:12:52.860
And then we're gonna create a farmer's market market
00:12:53.180 --> 00:12:53.620
Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm.
00:12:53.660 --> 00:12:54.030
Evin Schwarz: So
00:12:54.120 --> 00:13:01.787
she created, I mean, pantry business, entrepreneurship, uh, biology, right?
00:13:01.900 --> 00:13:05.997
Like environmental studies, everything you can think of and in confidence
00:13:06.287 --> 00:13:07.477
and community- Yeah which
00:13:07.477 --> 00:13:09.347
you're getting to just like we need
00:13:09.737 --> 00:13:10.527
people to believe in
00:13:10.610 --> 00:13:10.890
other.
00:13:11.040 --> 00:13:11.330
Jethro D. Jones: Yeah.
00:13:11.477 --> 00:13:14.047
Evin Schwarz: And today, especially 2026, it's hard being a a human.
00:13:14.157 --> 00:13:15.020
Forget about just a teacher.
00:13:15.020 --> 00:13:15.220
No.
00:13:15.220 --> 00:13:15.420
Yeah.
00:13:15.487 --> 00:13:16.417
It's impossible
00:13:16.617 --> 00:13:17.917
being a teacher today.
00:13:18.307 --> 00:13:18.347
Yeah.
00:13:18.627 --> 00:13:23.057
You hear all this stuff, and not just from administration, just constantly like this
00:13:23.057 --> 00:13:24.937
and that, and it's so polarizing every
00:13:24.937 --> 00:13:30.137
single time you turn on the or flip open your feed of like, we just need community members.
00:13:30.137 --> 00:13:31.727
And what we've also seen is
00:13:31.727 --> 00:13:35.907
that teacher, and and this is the really, I think, the thing, at least from my
00:13:35.907 --> 00:13:36.467
side, I know our
00:13:36.467 --> 00:13:40.960
team feels very similar of that teacher that inspires all the peers.
00:13:40.970 --> 00:13:40.990
Yeah.
00:13:41.380 --> 00:13:41.540
And
00:13:41.540 --> 00:13:47.340
we've seen the proof in where one school goes from, "Hey, we're throwing this teacher because he or she crazy,
00:13:47.500 --> 00:13:49.787
Mm and like we don't know what to do with them anymore-" Yeah … to
00:13:50.007 --> 00:13:52.510
now the district is 30 teachers in the program.
00:13:52.520 --> 00:13:52.540
Yeah.
00:13:52.550 --> 00:13:54.309
And like we see that wave
00:13:54.309 --> 00:13:54.449
starting to
00:13:54.858 --> 00:13:55.908
Jethro D. Jones: Yeah, I like that.
00:13:56.158 --> 00:14:00.998
And I especially like that story about the, the garden, 'cause the three schools I was an administrator at- Mm-hmm
00:14:01.008 --> 00:14:02.308
we started a garden in each one.
00:14:02.388 --> 00:14:02.458
Yeah.
00:14:02.658 --> 00:14:06.029
And the thing that's so crazy is that I didn't even mean
00:14:06.029 --> 00:14:06.239
to.
00:14:06.258 --> 00:14:06.458
Yeah.
00:14:06.578 --> 00:14:09.549
Like, it wasn't like I was like, "I really believe in community gardens."
00:14:09.709 --> 00:14:14.619
It was like, no, here's an opportunity, and here's where it fits with these three three very
00:14:14.619 --> 00:14:14.969
different schools."
00:14:15.498 --> 00:14:18.358
One was, uh, inner city in Utah.
00:14:18.518 --> 00:14:18.538
Mm-hmm.
00:14:18.738 --> 00:14:24.039
Uh, one was on an island in Kodiak, Alaska, and one was in, uh, Fairbanks,
00:14:24.039 --> 00:14:24.239
Alaska.
00:14:24.239 --> 00:14:24.858
That's awesome.
00:14:24.858 --> 00:14:27.128
And, like, the thing is, is that these things are
00:14:27.189 --> 00:14:28.898
are so, uh,
00:14:29.318 --> 00:14:29.548
so repeatable-
00:14:29.729 --> 00:14:30.908
repeatable- Mm-hmm … and,
00:14:30.908 --> 00:14:33.098
possible to do in all these different places.
00:14:33.608 --> 00:14:43.899
And the other thing that's great is that when somebody says, "This is what I'm doing," and they share it with their cohort, then and everybody's "Okay, I might not do do that exact thing, but now that makes me think, what else could I do?"
00:14:43.899 --> 00:14:44.739
That's exactly it.
00:14:44.739 --> 00:14:46.679
And, and that network effect of
00:14:46.719 --> 00:14:48.149
people, uh, e-
00:14:48.318 --> 00:14:52.688
e- expanding their horizons what they can do is incredibly powerful and-
00:14:52.698 --> 00:14:52.718
Yeah
00:14:53.018 --> 00:14:53.658
inspiring.
00:14:53.658 --> 00:15:05.498
And when it's not coming from the district saying, "You have to do this," and it's not coming from, uh, the, the saying, "This is a a requirement," Yeah but it's coming from somebody saying, "This is is what I think is be
00:15:05.498 --> 00:15:07.259
the best thing to to humanize education,"
00:15:07.879 --> 00:15:16.369
that super powerful for Yeah the, the peers to see and, and for them to to start emulating that kind of attitude as well.
00:15:16.439 --> 00:15:17.539
Evin Schwarz: Well, but they wanna show
00:15:17.539 --> 00:15:18.369
up the next
00:15:18.369 --> 00:15:18.389
Jethro D. Jones: day.
00:15:18.389 --> 00:15:18.609
Yeah.
00:15:18.809 --> 00:15:19.059
Evin Schwarz: Right?
00:15:19.079 --> 00:15:25.242
Like, if we're looking just really hard facts of how do we keep our great teachers in the building, right?
00:15:25.309 --> 00:15:26.739
And, and a lot of the of the great teachers are going to
00:15:26.739 --> 00:15:27.359
administration
00:15:27.829 --> 00:15:35.669
because principal sup, today I I heard a stat other day, and I've said a lot recently, the average superintendent in your school district lasts two years and two months.
00:15:36.102 --> 00:15:36.382
Jethro D. Jones: Yeah,
00:15:36.432 --> 00:15:37.219
Evin Schwarz: So I I mean, you know
00:15:37.219 --> 00:15:37.489
this.
00:15:37.549 --> 00:15:37.759
Yeah.
00:15:37.979 --> 00:15:39.599
So it takes one year
00:15:39.662 --> 00:15:40.082
culture,
00:15:40.392 --> 00:15:40.929
Mm-hmm right, and
00:15:40.929 --> 00:15:43.559
trust of like, "Who is this person?"
00:15:43.559 --> 00:15:43.879
Yeah.
00:15:43.989 --> 00:15:44.329
Jethro D. Jones: Yeah.
00:15:44.419 --> 00:15:45.739
Evin Schwarz: Year two, maybe you get something in,
00:15:45.989 --> 00:15:46.789
but you can't really
00:15:46.789 --> 00:15:48.649
build culture and community until year three to five.
00:15:48.892 --> 00:15:49.172
Jethro D. Jones: Yeah.
00:15:49.252 --> 00:15:50.772
Evin Schwarz: So you're going like this.
00:15:50.972 --> 00:15:51.112
Yep.
00:15:51.239 --> 00:15:51.749
And then that
00:15:51.749 --> 00:15:52.039
great
00:15:52.039 --> 00:15:54.999
teacher, because they're a teacher, they should naturally
00:15:54.999 --> 00:15:56.429
be administration and lead our school.
00:15:56.879 --> 00:15:57.862
They're not for that.
00:15:57.962 --> 00:15:58.042
Yeah.
00:15:58.209 --> 00:16:00.072
But they're doing it because they put first
00:16:00.342 --> 00:16:01.492
over themselves, and I respect
00:16:01.492 --> 00:16:01.742
the hell
00:16:01.755 --> 00:16:02.103
out of it.
00:16:02.103 --> 00:16:02.219
Yeah.
00:16:02.219 --> 00:16:04.229
But, Yeah …it's not sustainable
00:16:04.279 --> 00:16:06.609
in that way of how do you bring people in
00:16:06.609 --> 00:16:06.859
and get
00:16:06.859 --> 00:16:08.289
them to show up and be passionate, and
00:16:08.652 --> 00:16:09.779
also start introducing
00:16:09.779 --> 00:16:10.289
to community.
00:16:10.299 --> 00:16:10.319
Yeah.
00:16:10.849 --> 00:16:11.229
Like how
00:16:11.229 --> 00:16:20.192
mom, dad, grandpa, grandma, or guardian is going to feel when they have this amazing new experience of teachers showing up where, "Yeah, I want my kids school." Yeah.
00:16:20.229 --> 00:16:20.339
Yeah.
00:16:20.339 --> 00:16:21.319
And if we look at this
00:16:21.359 --> 00:16:29.059
industry, and I know I'm going this way that way, but if we look at the industry of butts in seats- Yeah … is one of the biggest challenges Why are my kids showing up?
00:16:29.169 --> 00:16:29.909
When are they showing up?
00:16:29.969 --> 00:16:31.009
Are they ever showing up?
00:16:31.352 --> 00:16:31.582
Jethro D. Jones: Yeah.
00:16:31.739 --> 00:16:33.349
Evin Schwarz: And schools are having a hard time wrapping their
00:16:33.974 --> 00:16:34.128
Jethro D. Jones: it.
00:16:34.128 --> 00:16:34.458
Yeah.
00:16:34.659 --> 00:16:36.302
And in seats with teachers also.
00:16:36.488 --> 00:16:36.508
Yeah,
00:16:36.508 --> 00:16:36.523
no
00:16:36.523 --> 00:16:36.538
doubt.
00:16:36.538 --> 00:16:36.668
Evin Schwarz: No
00:16:36.668 --> 00:16:36.878
Jethro D. Jones: doubt.
00:16:36.878 --> 00:16:40.228
Because there's a teacher shortage, there's a sub shortage.
00:16:40.238 --> 00:16:40.268
Yep.
00:16:40.538 --> 00:16:51.428
And, uh, and so many times, uh, and and principals are covering- Yeah … the other people in in their building, and which also makes it hard to have continuity.
00:16:51.468 --> 00:16:51.568
Mm-hmm.
00:16:51.838 --> 00:16:53.668
And, And, here's the other thing is
00:16:54.209 --> 00:16:55.158
one of,
00:16:55.228 --> 00:16:57.088
I believe, that humanizing education
00:16:57.289 --> 00:16:57.849
is that-
00:16:59.284 --> 00:16:59.494
In
00:16:59.557 --> 00:17:00.537
my schools, we
00:17:00.537 --> 00:17:01.767
tried to make it so that we didn't
00:17:01.767 --> 00:17:02.848
need a Yeah.
00:17:03.088 --> 00:17:09.368
And so that that if somebody gone, we had a system in place so that if we didn't have a sub- Mm-hmm … we could it.
00:17:09.528 --> 00:17:10.747
And that wasn't possible
00:17:10.747 --> 00:17:11.258
all the Yeah.
00:17:11.258 --> 00:17:11.457
And Yeah.
00:17:11.457 --> 00:17:12.377
Sometimes you needed,
00:17:12.628 --> 00:17:20.148
you need someone in there, but, but being flexible enough- Yeah … to make it so that it wasn't a, a wasted day, basically.
00:17:20.168 --> 00:17:20.188
Mm-hmm.
00:17:20.198 --> 00:17:20.977
Which it often
00:17:20.977 --> 00:17:21.267
is with a sub.
00:17:21.267 --> 00:17:21.477
Yeah,
00:17:21.477 --> 00:17:21.657
no
00:17:21.817 --> 00:17:22.027
Evin Schwarz: doubt.
00:17:22.157 --> 00:17:23.734
I mean, listen, I remember my of like
00:17:24.004 --> 00:17:24.944
rolling a push cart-
00:17:25.234 --> 00:17:25.254
Yeah
00:17:25.254 --> 00:17:25.937
… and here here comes the TV,
00:17:26.204 --> 00:17:26.234
right?
00:17:26.244 --> 00:17:26.264
Yeah.
00:17:26.784 --> 00:17:27.267
I can't
00:17:27.267 --> 00:17:27.777
imagine.
00:17:27.867 --> 00:17:28.227
I know they
00:17:28.287 --> 00:17:28.817
probably don't have that
00:17:28.817 --> 00:17:29.387
anymore, but like
00:17:29.894 --> 00:17:33.057
we're probably not that off from that in like new technology format-
00:17:33.164 --> 00:17:33.554
Jethro D. Jones: Mm-hmm
00:17:33.674 --> 00:17:35.527
Evin Schwarz: of like open, you know, your, this
00:17:35.537 --> 00:17:36.557
app and like here's- Yeah
00:17:36.637 --> 00:17:37.237
your assignment today.
00:17:37.427 --> 00:17:49.677
Jethro D. Jones: Uh, did… It w- I was… It was somebody else I was to yesterday who said that the way that they they were doing math instruction, uh, was that they would have a, uh, a video that they they would pull up.
00:17:49.878 --> 00:17:56.508
The teacher would hit play, the video would play, and it would be, uh, a teacher explaining the That's thing.
00:17:56.788 --> 00:17:59.978
They'd hit pause and "Okay, discuss," or whatever.
00:18:00.288 --> 00:18:01.117
And I I was like,
00:18:01.137 --> 00:18:02.487
"Are you kidding me?" That's crazy.
00:18:02.797 --> 00:18:03.557
That is just crazy.
00:18:03.557 --> 00:18:04.867
Evin Schwarz: Like, why am I showing up for this?
00:18:04.867 --> 00:18:05.207
Jethro D. Jones: Yeah.
00:18:05.487 --> 00:18:06.067
I, I,
00:18:06.228 --> 00:18:07.028
There's no point.
00:18:07.178 --> 00:18:08.227
I should stay home.
00:18:08.367 --> 00:18:08.607
Evin Schwarz: Absolutely.
00:18:08.827 --> 00:18:11.074
And- Especially when you look on the other side of the of like, and
00:18:11.084 --> 00:18:12.214
we're not just gonna go to the YouTube,
00:18:12.244 --> 00:18:12.374
we're gonna
00:18:12.397 --> 00:18:13.307
not just gonna go to TikTok, or although
00:18:13.367 --> 00:18:14.107
those are real.
00:18:14.297 --> 00:18:14.627
Yeah.
00:18:14.667 --> 00:18:14.967
But
00:18:15.444 --> 00:18:15.887
I have a
00:18:15.887 --> 00:18:18.057
wealth of information in my pocket.
00:18:18.297 --> 00:18:18.607
Jethro D. Jones: Yeah.
00:18:18.607 --> 00:18:21.787
Evin Schwarz: Like I can start that or I can do this job or that job.
00:18:22.007 --> 00:18:22.257
Jethro D. Jones: Yeah.
00:18:22.444 --> 00:18:22.654
Evin Schwarz: it
00:18:22.664 --> 00:18:24.127
doesn't you don't have to You don't have to need a college degree
00:18:24.817 --> 00:18:24.937
Jethro D. Jones: anymore.
00:18:24.947 --> 00:18:24.967
Yeah,
00:18:25.094 --> 00:18:28.547
Evin Schwarz: like it's, we're in for, we're in for a ride- Yeah … over the next few
00:18:28.628 --> 00:18:28.658
Jethro D. Jones: over
00:18:28.658 --> 00:18:29.148
the next few years,
00:18:29.148 --> 00:18:29.288
I
00:18:29.308 --> 00:18:29.518
think.
00:18:29.518 --> 00:18:29.630
Yep.
00:18:29.630 --> 00:18:29.966
I think so.
00:18:29.966 --> 00:18:30.078
Yeah.
00:18:30.078 --> 00:18:33.718
And it's going, it's gonna be a and honestly I'm I'm looking to it.
00:18:33.728 --> 00:18:33.748
Yeah.
00:18:33.748 --> 00:18:34.048
I would agree.
00:18:34.087 --> 00:18:34.247
would agree.
00:18:34.247 --> 00:18:38.557
I, I that positive things are gonna come out of of it- Mm-hmm …even if it hurts a little bit- I
00:18:38.567 --> 00:18:38.797
Evin Schwarz: agree
00:18:38.907 --> 00:18:39.427
… Jethro D. Jones: in the short
00:18:39.427 --> 00:18:39.557
term.
00:18:39.557 --> 00:18:39.717
Evin Schwarz: Yeah.
00:18:39.818 --> 00:18:40.388
need a reset.
00:18:40.388 --> 00:18:40.728
Jethro D. Jones: Yeah.
00:18:40.928 --> 00:18:45.178
Uh, so how do people, if they're hearing this and they're like, "I wanna do something cool.
00:18:45.208 --> 00:18:46.618
I wanna get some extra funding.
00:18:46.848 --> 00:18:49.207
I I wanna education," how do do they
00:18:49.207 --> 00:18:50.264
get connected with Thinkering?
00:18:50.274 --> 00:18:50.864
Evin Schwarz: Great question.
00:18:50.864 --> 00:18:54.797
So thinkeringcollective.org, um, all of our programs are there.
00:18:55.117 --> 00:18:55.347
Uh, we
00:18:55.347 --> 00:19:01.957
have a great Substack that goes out twice a week as well with a boatload of content celebrating teacher voice and innovation and inspiration.
00:19:02.337 --> 00:19:04.527
Uh, go check that out first more than anything.
00:19:04.907 --> 00:19:06.614
Uh, give a subscription on that side too.
00:19:06.614 --> 00:19:07.044
It's free.
00:19:07.437 --> 00:19:10.254
But, um, that's always great to follow along with journey.
00:19:10.677 --> 00:19:11.944
Um, and then reach out, like
00:19:11.944 --> 00:19:13.277
our, our team is everywhere.
00:19:13.297 --> 00:19:14.434
We're loud about it.
00:19:14.444 --> 00:19:14.464
Yeah.
00:19:14.834 --> 00:19:15.567
Uh, a
00:19:15.567 --> 00:19:18.654
little obnoxious about it too, because we believe you need passion.
00:19:18.834 --> 00:19:19.064
Yeah.
00:19:19.174 --> 00:19:20.887
And you need people to show up and
00:19:20.887 --> 00:19:25.954
constantly talk say like, "This isn't right. Something needs change." So thinkeringcollective.org.
00:19:26.017 --> 00:19:27.444
We're we're on Instagram,
00:19:27.464 --> 00:19:29.074
the the whole And then, um, for
00:19:29.147 --> 00:19:29.637
me, reach out.
00:19:29.767 --> 00:19:32.374
I'm on LinkedIn primarily, um, Schwartz.
00:19:32.384 --> 00:19:32.734
and
00:19:32.974 --> 00:19:33.737
looking forward to chatting.
00:19:34.152 --> 00:19:34.582
Jethro D. Jones: Excellent.
00:19:34.592 --> 00:19:35.442
Thank you very much for being
00:19:35.545 --> 00:19:35.997
Evin Schwarz: Appreciate it, man.
00:19:36.057 --> 00:19:36.547
Always a pleasure.
00:19:36.592 --> 00:19:36.622
Jethro D. Jones: Always a pleasure.
