00:00:05
Speaker 1: Appoche Production. Hi everyone, it's Beck here from Tenderness for Nurses. This next two episodes are going to be Part A and Part B. Part A is going to be around addiction and alcohol misuse disorder. There are going to be some hard subjects that we are talking about, including death by suicide. So if you find these subjects triggering, please beware of the content that is going to follow. Part A. We're talking about addiction and Part B is definitely more focus on death by suicide. So we felt that these episodes needed to be shared and these topics need to be discussed. So I want to say enjoy, but I hope this gives you some idea as to what people and families go through. Hi guys, it's Beck Woodbine here from Tenderness for Nurses. I just want to let you all know that this episode has been supported by CMR. So from nurses to doctors to allied health professionals, CMR is here to connect you with opportunities that support the work you love and the life you want to lead. So together we're building a happier healthcare community. Want to learn more, then I will add the link down the bottom, which is CMR dot com dot U, but Cornerstone Medical Recruitment just look at healthcare differently and how they support the healthcare teams that they provide employment for. So definitely check them out, have a chat with them and see if there's something they can do for you. Hi. My name's beck Woodbine and welcome to Tenderness for Nurses. I'm grateful for the person that I have the opportunity to.
00:01:52
Speaker 2: Be, so I hit it and parked it for Nellie four years. We always have free will, we always get to choose. We are autonomous.
00:02:02
Speaker 1: Hi. Everyone, thanks for tuning back into Tenderness for Nurses. Today is going to be a bit of a tough podcast. So I'm just going to let you know we are going to be talking about death by suicide and we are going to be talking about addictions. I have my beautiful sister in law, Jane here with me, who has lived through a loved one having an addiction to alcohol and then sadly he passed by suicide at the beginning of last year. And Jane is passionate about not sweeping it under the carpet, and as tough as this conversation is going to be for her, it's going to be a really great podcast for you guys to listen to, to share, and to promote that there's a lot of people out there, myself included, that have had issues with addiction and that it's not the big nasty thing that everyone thinks it is. However, people need support and management around handling it, and families definitely need support. So welcome, Jane.
00:03:12
Speaker 2: Thank you.
00:03:14
Speaker 1: I know this isn't going to be the easiest conversation to have, but let's start with your management of Sean's addiction and how do you think it started?
00:03:26
Speaker 2: Sean? I think, like most drinkers, it was something that was his culture. He's a tradesman, has always been in construction, and it was Friday afternoon drinks at Knockoff in the smokeo room. It was bringing home a carden on a Friday night with his pay. You know, he'd get his pay packet and he'd buy a carton and he'd come home and he would work around the house all weekend. He was always sort of building or tinkering or gardening or yard maintenance, and he'd have a COLDI just became the culture. It became the culture. It's the language within his industry and its currency.
00:04:15
Speaker 1: Was there a turning point where his alcohol consumption became problematic or was it a slow build? Like for me, I know, I was fine, had gastric bypass surgery. Everything went to shit for him. Was it a slow burn? Did he try and hide it? Let's face, we all try and hide it. It was owning a business, the stress of running a business.
00:04:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely owning the company. I think he didn't have a lot of support. He was really self made in his success, and with that come a lot of stress that he shouldered alone, you know, and he started working longer hours and then he would stay back to do the books at night, and he would have a couple of drinks. And then that just snowballed because then he was drinking alone and with Sean. All his drinking was done while he was social. He didn't go to the pub or you know, he come home. He still, you know, managed a business and a family and everything that goes with that. But when he was on his own, he was leaning into his alcohol as a coping mechanism. He was stressed, he was tired, and then it become do you know what that's I think the big mysteries was there that one point. No, it was always there in the background, ununtil it's a problem, and by then it become a secret. So he got unwell and he ended up with cirrhosis of the liver, and he was in complete denial because he was denying how many drinks he was actually having sitting there at work until midnight doing the book. And the falling for Shan was he got surraceless to the liver and then his options where he had stopped drinking to.
00:06:12
Speaker 1: Get to that point. That's a lot of alcohol consumption.
00:06:16
Speaker 2: Can be or it can't, you know, like the surgeon said to me, Absolutely, it's to do with you know, drinking excessively, but it can also be the same as smoking, where you can die of lung cancer and not be a pack of the day smoker.
00:06:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, so if.
00:06:30
Speaker 2: You've got the disposition for it, it can just happen. So you know, he certainly had friends around him that were drinking every day and they will live to a ripe old age. It's just he was just unlucky.
00:06:45
Speaker 1: Did that give him, I suppose impetus to them stop drinking or he then found that really hard once he was diagnosed with cerises of the liver. Yeah, was he able to stop or it just then escalated.
00:06:59
Speaker 2: Because by then he was he was addicted, you know, and he went to hospital and you just get it, you know, you sign out papers, all right, never drink again and you'll live or and that was just it. There was no management, There was no you know, in hindsight, maybe he should have immediately been put into rehabilitation after it, but it was more sort of like recovery from the surgery and then just get on with it. And that's just not how it worked. Oh did he have to have surgery when he went in to hospital, they had surgery. No, they have to drain them. Oh, as your liver stops working. Yeah, and he got so sick that he ended up in hospital all swollen arm. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because his liver wasn't functioning. So then that's a very painful ordeal for him and anyone else and they just have to stay there and basically be drained.
00:07:56
Speaker 1: And how long was he in hospital then? Probably two weeks, So that's a double whammy. So it's not just you're in pain, you've also stopped for two weeks. Yeah, did you know his drinking by that stage was a problem No, definitely not. When did you realize it was a problem.
00:08:15
Speaker 2: Oh boy, that's a really big question, because we stop talking about Shawnee's addiction, and we then start talking about the coping mechanisms that the family and loved ones put in place, and the things that we choose to see and not see for the sake of the family and the sake of an argument, and you just sort of think you wish them well the whole time, and you start falling into this chain of events where it's you know, they'll come home and you'll think they've had a drink, and you'll ask them and then they'll deny it, and then the smoke screens start, you know, and then you start thinking, am I going crazy here? Or are you drinking? And that's where it starts, because you start making up excuses for your loved one that's got an addiction problem, and you go into protection mode. I went into protection mode for everyone, for my family.
00:09:23
Speaker 1: And were the girls aware Jane's got three daughters, beautiful girls. Were they aware?
00:09:29
Speaker 2: Or it's just he and I really don't like to use the word functioning, because you aren't functioning when you're drinking. But he was still ticking all the boxes. So he was coming home. He was running excess sex for business. He was well liked, he was very well respected in the industry, very smart at what he did. So what happens is a little bit of gas lighting to the partners with in addiction, because I would question it, and then I would be presented with but look, I'm still doing this, and I'm still doing that, and I'm just tired, and I've had a big day at work and you are blowing up, and you know, I wasn't blowing up because I'm just not that sort of person. We had a healthy relationship. I actually worked with him as well, so I was in the office all day and we were good mates. So we weren't. It wasn't that our relationship went sour. I think if I look back at it now, what I realize is that there was three people in our relationship. There was myself, Sean and alcohol, and slowly the midstressed alcohol become more important than me. More protected was the alcohol.
00:10:48
Speaker 1: Love.
00:10:49
Speaker 2: No, he hated it. He hated the powered hat over it. Yeah by that stage, but he loved me, but he protected his addiction.
00:11:01
Speaker 1: Yeah at all costs. Yeah, when did he get to the stage where he chose alcohol over his family.
00:11:11
Speaker 2: I think he'd just created a whole system of pressure. By this stage, he was unwell because he really didn't recover from his diagnosis with serrasis, and he continued to drink, and then he would start a cycle where he didn't sleep, so he ended up with really severe sleep abnear so then he just started medicating. So he ended up with a codeine addiction because he was working seven days a week at really high pressure, and then he was drinking, and then he'd come home, he couldn't sleep, he'd get up, he'd feel terrible, so he would shove down half a packet of europin at the time, europhin plus, and then he would start the day because he had to be back at work, and then he would feel sick because the neurophin plus on his liver didn't work, So then he would have a drink and then it repeats, day after day after day.
00:12:13
Speaker 1: When did you know that he had an issue with codeine when he went into rehab and that was the first time he went into rehab. Was it because of the coding or was it because of the alcohol?
00:12:25
Speaker 2: He had to admit it. Everything that he was shaking.
00:12:28
Speaker 1: Wow.
00:12:29
Speaker 2: So he was writing scripts to the family and he was just going to the chemists everywhere, just getting one for me and one for the girls, one for him, just chemists shopping.
00:12:39
Speaker 1: See that's a little while ago because coding hasn't been available for a while.
00:12:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was sort of at the neuripan behind the counter and had a label on it.
00:12:49
Speaker 1: Stage. I have to say, I know people get upset that it's not available, but I think it's a good thing.
00:12:55
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:12:55
Speaker 1: How did he go going into rehab? How long was he in there for? Initially?
00:12:59
Speaker 2: I think when he first went into rehab he was still in deny, so he knew he had to go and do something about it. But I think he just thought he could clean it away. He's a professional, he was super smart. He outsmarted himself. Basically, he would go he would be the star student for a month, two months, or whatever it was. Everyone loved him, adored him. He would participate in all of the group and do everything right except for take ownership of his own problem. He went there and would fix everybody else, and that's how he thought he was getting better, But he never really fixed himself.
00:13:44
Speaker 1: Do you think he wanted to.
00:13:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know he wanted to.
00:13:48
Speaker 1: Why do you think he couldn't? Was it just that had such power over him?
00:13:52
Speaker 2: Yeah? Alcoholism is just a monster. And I think everybody has a drink and thinks that it's not going to happen to them until it does, Until it's the monster. You wake up one day and you realize that you cannot fix it.
00:14:09
Speaker 1: It's one of those things that I have definitely pondered and thought about. Was how is it that I saw my psychiatrist he put me on a medication camperal, But literally from that day on, I've never touched the drop of alcohol nor wanted to. Yeah, why was I able to do that? And then, for example, Sean could stop for periods of time, but then would always go back and drink. And this happens with other people, And yet I don't understand why for me I could.
00:14:42
Speaker 2: Just culture stop culture.
00:14:46
Speaker 1: You think so? Yeah? So where he was working in the whole industry he was in definitely, Yeah, he lost his identity.
00:14:56
Speaker 2: He had spent his whole life working and he got to fifty and he had no hobbies. He was stuck in a grind where I think he was a Western suburb Sydney boy on his own from fifteen, and his entire life was about making money. So when I make money, I'm going to hit Nirvana as aye the goalpost change it does. Yeah, So he just didn't have any coping mechanisms on how to get off that grind. And then with that come the culture of drinking, and he just felt like he was nobody if he didn't have a drink in his hand. He just didn't know how to socialize without drinking.
00:15:50
Speaker 1: Do you think he had social anxiety?
00:15:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely he did.
00:15:54
Speaker 1: And what about depression, yes, So when you add those two together, I know from my own experience after I stopped drinking that I found socialized exceptionally hard, unbelievably hard. And in fact, I've spoken about this before. You know, I stopped socializing and just was surrounding myself with very particular people because I just couldn't couldn't do it, and I couldn't handle the narki comments and people offering me drinks. It was too much. So I just stopped. Now it doesn't worry me. But also I'm around people now that understand and don't do that sort of thing. You know, if someone now, yeah, I just get really shitty with them and just honestly, I just go and see you later. If someone doesn't understand my boundaries around alcohol. Jason doesn't drink much, so for that, I'm grateful and lucky. Neither do my kids, so I've been lucky in that. But to work in construction, everyone drinks on a Friday afternoon, you have social anxiety.
00:17:05
Speaker 2: You don't show vulnerability, so they don't reach out for help.
00:17:10
Speaker 1: So how many industries does that happen in? Especially for men? It happens at nursing.
00:17:16
Speaker 2: I think we're making headways with it, but we've got a long way to go.
00:17:22
Speaker 1: Through all of this. What was the impact on you?
00:17:27
Speaker 2: There was a lot of frustration for us because the family of an addict doesn't really have a voice, so when Sean was in getting treatment, they can only go on what narrative Sean would give, and I just sometimes I would be so frustrated because I'd think, you know, I loved him and I was all there to support him. But if they really wanted an honest account of where Sean was.
00:17:59
Speaker 1: Really at, asked you.
00:18:01
Speaker 2: They should have asked the family, and they don't because the laws with privacy and so forth. But yeah, I just I just think we were there to support him. We hadn't walked away it just if I hadn't had a voice, it would have been did Jean push you away? No, No, definitely not, but he always sort of had a handle on it to the big old world.
00:18:25
Speaker 1: Did you share it with other people? Like, yes, you were always quite open with Jason, with us and that sort of thing. How did other people respond when you told them?
00:18:37
Speaker 2: They were really positive? Like I didn't lose any friends. I think alcoholism in Australia it's huge. And if anything, I had people approach me, you know, they'd call or text or whatever and say, oh, look you know my husband he's doing the same thing, or you know my sister or brother or my child. Yeah, if anything, I got like it's almost a relief when somebody is brave enough to stand there and say, hey, this is happening to me. I am blown away by how many people then are brave enough to go or actually, yeah, it's happening in our house too.
00:19:20
Speaker 1: The number of clients that asked me how I stopped drinking and what I did and how I did it and is phenomenal and is definitely a problem in women, middle aged female. I think it's a huge issue in this country. Yes, I believe it's certainly an issue with men. But once a week at least at least a client would ask me how I managed, or they've got a loved one that they're worried, like you said, loved one they're worried about, or they're worried about themselves. Yeah, and I think, what courage that. Well, as you've taken the first step.
00:19:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. And we were alcohol free at home. I don't drink. I've never really been a drinker at all. I think from very early on in our marriage, I just well, it doesn't bother me either way. I've never been sort of like, oh I really want to drink, or I'm quite happy not to drink. So then we fell into the habit of what I would drive and he would drink because he wasn't not going to drink. So it was either we both drink or just he drinks. So it was never ever an option that I would drink and he wouldn't.
00:20:36
Speaker 1: When did it reach a tipping point for you guys? Or do you just didn't know the things? So he left, He left yes, he come home one night and said, I can't do it. But he was spiraling out of control and he didn't leave.
00:20:50
Speaker 2: He ran. He ran, and he ran because we were the only ones that knew. So when he ran, he surrounded himself with people that they were just vultures and they were quite happy to party and drink, and you know, birds of a feather flocked together, and that's where he went. But you know, I just I was always firm in my conversation with him, where I said, you know, the door was always open when you're ready to stop running, where he had to support you. I think my saving grace with our relationship was I never took it personally. Sean's addiction wasn't his reflection of his love for me. He loved his family and he still did everything for us because he loved us and I.
00:21:43
Speaker 1: Even after he'd left.
00:21:45
Speaker 2: Absolutely, he just ran. Nothing changed. He just ran. And you know when he went into rehab. I've had so many people, the doctors or owners of private health rehabs that he'd gone into, have contacted me since he's passed away to say what an incredible person, And they all say he just spoke of how much he loved his family the whole time. So it's hard, but I think we need to understand that alcohol doesn't always stem from unhappy marriages or unhappy families, or finances or lack of a job or lack of a roof over your head. Because he had all of that and he loved that. He just didn't love himself.
00:22:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he never addressed it.
00:22:31
Speaker 2: He didn't think he was worthy. And yeah, so that's a really hard thing because I couldn't love him out of it. He could only do it himself. So then he would go and get the help, and then he would spiral back into the depression and anxiety sleep deprivation cycle.
00:22:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he was never able to manage that through counseling or through meditation, or it was just something he couldn't get a grip on.
00:23:10
Speaker 2: He would do it, he'd be fine for a while, and then I don't know, I'll never know. I'll never know what triggered him.
00:23:22
Speaker 1: So when you talk about Sean being triggered, are you talking about him being triggered to drinkah? And would he try and hide it at first?
00:23:37
Speaker 2: He always hit it, always, always, Yeah, it was done in secret.
00:23:42
Speaker 1: But then that's addiction, isn't it.
00:23:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it wasn't. Sort of like he was staggering out of a part and it was all very apparent.
00:23:49
Speaker 1: He wasn't.
00:23:50
Speaker 2: He was going to work and he was doing twenty hour days. But once everyone else had knocked off, he would he would sit at his desk working and did it after good.
00:24:02
Speaker 1: Good male friends or the people. He could talk to you about this, yes.
00:24:07
Speaker 2: But he's no, he didn't talk to anyone about it, so that must.
00:24:11
Speaker 1: Be pretty lonely. Yeah, and he wouldn't talk about it with you.
00:24:16
Speaker 2: I have since been shown the power of shame and how you can have guild and you can have shame, and people think they're the same thing, and they're not. They're two very very different scenarios. And you know, when the padre came to visit myself and my daughters, he was asking my daughter, you know, tell me about Dad, and she said, you know, he was just my world. But Dad just couldn't get over his shame. Even though we said, Dad, you know we love you and we are here to support you and you know, to paint the picture. We weren't sitting at home ever in a negative. It was always hope and growth and that kind of language, and he just carried this shame of when the addiction did take over and then he did run, and then you know, he we welcomed him back in and he got the help and things like that. Then he just couldn't get past.
00:25:16
Speaker 1: It was more.
00:25:18
Speaker 2: He struggled with shame than addiction towards the end. And you know, and the Padre explained to me that, you know, guilt and shame are two very different things, and ones like a box with three sides, And that's guilt because you can sit in that open box and you can think, Okay, I feel guilty and pretty lousy about what I've just done, but there's pathways and I can get out of the box that I'm in. But when you feel shame, you're trapped inside of a box with no lid and silence.
00:25:49
Speaker 1: Shame grows in silence, yes, and people with addictions are really good at being silent.
00:25:54
Speaker 2: Yes, But it wasn't because he was unhappy. And I think, you know this is we're all starting to learn this now that we are talking about alcoholic dips and death by suicide, particularly that it's not happening to our down and outs. It's not happening to our I mean broadly speaking, it's happening to every walk of life. But it's not just people that have had something awful. And I know from my own experience that people after Sean passed away, we're digging into our family to find a reason, you know that, oh, they must have gone broke, or their marriage must be unhappy, or something's happened because we don't we're not there yet when it comes to talking about suicide and mental health, and particularly male mental health, and we just don't want to think that it could just happen to anyone. There doesn't have to be a reason for it.
00:27:01
Speaker 1: Something like ninety five percent of death by suicide, you know, someone who decides to jump off a bridge or just something under the influence of alcohol and drugs. It is huge. Now, what have they made that decision? If they were sober or hadn't completely, they would make a different decision. And that might mean, like you said, doesn't mean necessarily they've got an addiction issue or any but under that influence of those substances, yeah, a temporary situation, they've made a really patent decision. And my daughter Chloe did a big research subject in Public Health on death by suicide with men in mining camps for fifo. You know, and we never hear about it, But one male a week dies by suicide, one male a week in those camps or goes home and can't cope and then takes his own life, one a week, and you never hear about it.
00:28:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, thank you for using the language that's by suicide too. I think it's definitely more relevant. You know, we've shifted away from saying committed suicide because it's sounding like a crime, and it's not a crime. It was a cry for help.
00:28:25
Speaker 1: Oh it's you know. I mean back in the day, I mean, you weren't apparently meant to go to heaven, or you weren't allowed to get your insurance, or there were so many other factors around dying by suicide. And thankfully a lot of that dialogue is changing. I know from my own experience, having had depression and anxiety that I mean, I would never have done anything, but there are moments where I know I can remember thinking to myself, this is.
00:29:02
Speaker 2: Too hard, Yeah feel consuming.
00:29:06
Speaker 1: You know, it's too hard. And imagine if I had had that thought and were still drinking the decision I could have made from that, and I suppose that then leads us into I suppose Part B of this conversation that concludes Part A of this tough conversation. Next week we'll continue right from where we left for Part B. Thank you for listening. This episode was brought to you by CMR. We're proud to support nurses, doctors and allied health professionals across all of Australia because when you feel supported, whole communities thrive together. We're building happier healthcare and if you want to learn more, check them out at CMR dot com dot Au. And I just want to say, these guys really care about their medical staff and get in great jobs and employment for them, so definitely check them out. I've been blown away by what they offer and how they look after their teams. So if they're worth checking out as a nurse in particular, but as a healthcare worker, check them out at CMR dot com dot Au
Speaker 1: Appoche Production. Hi everyone, it's Beck here from Tenderness for Nurses. This next two episodes are going to be Part A and Part B. Part A is going to be around addiction and alcohol misuse disorder. There are going to be some hard subjects that we are talking about, including death by suicide. So if you find these subjects triggering, please beware of the content that is going to follow. Part A. We're talking about addiction and Part B is definitely more focus on death by suicide. So we felt that these episodes needed to be shared and these topics need to be discussed. So I want to say enjoy, but I hope this gives you some idea as to what people and families go through. Hi guys, it's Beck Woodbine here from Tenderness for Nurses. I just want to let you all know that this episode has been supported by CMR. So from nurses to doctors to allied health professionals, CMR is here to connect you with opportunities that support the work you love and the life you want to lead. So together we're building a happier healthcare community. Want to learn more, then I will add the link down the bottom, which is CMR dot com dot U, but Cornerstone Medical Recruitment just look at healthcare differently and how they support the healthcare teams that they provide employment for. So definitely check them out, have a chat with them and see if there's something they can do for you. Hi. My name's beck Woodbine and welcome to Tenderness for Nurses. I'm grateful for the person that I have the opportunity to.
00:01:52
Speaker 2: Be, so I hit it and parked it for Nellie four years. We always have free will, we always get to choose. We are autonomous.
00:02:02
Speaker 1: Hi. Everyone, thanks for tuning back into Tenderness for Nurses. Today is going to be a bit of a tough podcast. So I'm just going to let you know we are going to be talking about death by suicide and we are going to be talking about addictions. I have my beautiful sister in law, Jane here with me, who has lived through a loved one having an addiction to alcohol and then sadly he passed by suicide at the beginning of last year. And Jane is passionate about not sweeping it under the carpet, and as tough as this conversation is going to be for her, it's going to be a really great podcast for you guys to listen to, to share, and to promote that there's a lot of people out there, myself included, that have had issues with addiction and that it's not the big nasty thing that everyone thinks it is. However, people need support and management around handling it, and families definitely need support. So welcome, Jane.
00:03:12
Speaker 2: Thank you.
00:03:14
Speaker 1: I know this isn't going to be the easiest conversation to have, but let's start with your management of Sean's addiction and how do you think it started?
00:03:26
Speaker 2: Sean? I think, like most drinkers, it was something that was his culture. He's a tradesman, has always been in construction, and it was Friday afternoon drinks at Knockoff in the smokeo room. It was bringing home a carden on a Friday night with his pay. You know, he'd get his pay packet and he'd buy a carton and he'd come home and he would work around the house all weekend. He was always sort of building or tinkering or gardening or yard maintenance, and he'd have a COLDI just became the culture. It became the culture. It's the language within his industry and its currency.
00:04:15
Speaker 1: Was there a turning point where his alcohol consumption became problematic or was it a slow build? Like for me, I know, I was fine, had gastric bypass surgery. Everything went to shit for him. Was it a slow burn? Did he try and hide it? Let's face, we all try and hide it. It was owning a business, the stress of running a business.
00:04:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely owning the company. I think he didn't have a lot of support. He was really self made in his success, and with that come a lot of stress that he shouldered alone, you know, and he started working longer hours and then he would stay back to do the books at night, and he would have a couple of drinks. And then that just snowballed because then he was drinking alone and with Sean. All his drinking was done while he was social. He didn't go to the pub or you know, he come home. He still, you know, managed a business and a family and everything that goes with that. But when he was on his own, he was leaning into his alcohol as a coping mechanism. He was stressed, he was tired, and then it become do you know what that's I think the big mysteries was there that one point. No, it was always there in the background, ununtil it's a problem, and by then it become a secret. So he got unwell and he ended up with cirrhosis of the liver, and he was in complete denial because he was denying how many drinks he was actually having sitting there at work until midnight doing the book. And the falling for Shan was he got surraceless to the liver and then his options where he had stopped drinking to.
00:06:12
Speaker 1: Get to that point. That's a lot of alcohol consumption.
00:06:16
Speaker 2: Can be or it can't, you know, like the surgeon said to me, Absolutely, it's to do with you know, drinking excessively, but it can also be the same as smoking, where you can die of lung cancer and not be a pack of the day smoker.
00:06:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, so if.
00:06:30
Speaker 2: You've got the disposition for it, it can just happen. So you know, he certainly had friends around him that were drinking every day and they will live to a ripe old age. It's just he was just unlucky.
00:06:45
Speaker 1: Did that give him, I suppose impetus to them stop drinking or he then found that really hard once he was diagnosed with cerises of the liver. Yeah, was he able to stop or it just then escalated.
00:06:59
Speaker 2: Because by then he was he was addicted, you know, and he went to hospital and you just get it, you know, you sign out papers, all right, never drink again and you'll live or and that was just it. There was no management, There was no you know, in hindsight, maybe he should have immediately been put into rehabilitation after it, but it was more sort of like recovery from the surgery and then just get on with it. And that's just not how it worked. Oh did he have to have surgery when he went in to hospital, they had surgery. No, they have to drain them. Oh, as your liver stops working. Yeah, and he got so sick that he ended up in hospital all swollen arm. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because his liver wasn't functioning. So then that's a very painful ordeal for him and anyone else and they just have to stay there and basically be drained.
00:07:56
Speaker 1: And how long was he in hospital then? Probably two weeks, So that's a double whammy. So it's not just you're in pain, you've also stopped for two weeks. Yeah, did you know his drinking by that stage was a problem No, definitely not. When did you realize it was a problem.
00:08:15
Speaker 2: Oh boy, that's a really big question, because we stop talking about Shawnee's addiction, and we then start talking about the coping mechanisms that the family and loved ones put in place, and the things that we choose to see and not see for the sake of the family and the sake of an argument, and you just sort of think you wish them well the whole time, and you start falling into this chain of events where it's you know, they'll come home and you'll think they've had a drink, and you'll ask them and then they'll deny it, and then the smoke screens start, you know, and then you start thinking, am I going crazy here? Or are you drinking? And that's where it starts, because you start making up excuses for your loved one that's got an addiction problem, and you go into protection mode. I went into protection mode for everyone, for my family.
00:09:23
Speaker 1: And were the girls aware Jane's got three daughters, beautiful girls. Were they aware?
00:09:29
Speaker 2: Or it's just he and I really don't like to use the word functioning, because you aren't functioning when you're drinking. But he was still ticking all the boxes. So he was coming home. He was running excess sex for business. He was well liked, he was very well respected in the industry, very smart at what he did. So what happens is a little bit of gas lighting to the partners with in addiction, because I would question it, and then I would be presented with but look, I'm still doing this, and I'm still doing that, and I'm just tired, and I've had a big day at work and you are blowing up, and you know, I wasn't blowing up because I'm just not that sort of person. We had a healthy relationship. I actually worked with him as well, so I was in the office all day and we were good mates. So we weren't. It wasn't that our relationship went sour. I think if I look back at it now, what I realize is that there was three people in our relationship. There was myself, Sean and alcohol, and slowly the midstressed alcohol become more important than me. More protected was the alcohol.
00:10:48
Speaker 1: Love.
00:10:49
Speaker 2: No, he hated it. He hated the powered hat over it. Yeah by that stage, but he loved me, but he protected his addiction.
00:11:01
Speaker 1: Yeah at all costs. Yeah, when did he get to the stage where he chose alcohol over his family.
00:11:11
Speaker 2: I think he'd just created a whole system of pressure. By this stage, he was unwell because he really didn't recover from his diagnosis with serrasis, and he continued to drink, and then he would start a cycle where he didn't sleep, so he ended up with really severe sleep abnear so then he just started medicating. So he ended up with a codeine addiction because he was working seven days a week at really high pressure, and then he was drinking, and then he'd come home, he couldn't sleep, he'd get up, he'd feel terrible, so he would shove down half a packet of europin at the time, europhin plus, and then he would start the day because he had to be back at work, and then he would feel sick because the neurophin plus on his liver didn't work, So then he would have a drink and then it repeats, day after day after day.
00:12:13
Speaker 1: When did you know that he had an issue with codeine when he went into rehab and that was the first time he went into rehab. Was it because of the coding or was it because of the alcohol?
00:12:25
Speaker 2: He had to admit it. Everything that he was shaking.
00:12:28
Speaker 1: Wow.
00:12:29
Speaker 2: So he was writing scripts to the family and he was just going to the chemists everywhere, just getting one for me and one for the girls, one for him, just chemists shopping.
00:12:39
Speaker 1: See that's a little while ago because coding hasn't been available for a while.
00:12:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was sort of at the neuripan behind the counter and had a label on it.
00:12:49
Speaker 1: Stage. I have to say, I know people get upset that it's not available, but I think it's a good thing.
00:12:55
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:12:55
Speaker 1: How did he go going into rehab? How long was he in there for? Initially?
00:12:59
Speaker 2: I think when he first went into rehab he was still in deny, so he knew he had to go and do something about it. But I think he just thought he could clean it away. He's a professional, he was super smart. He outsmarted himself. Basically, he would go he would be the star student for a month, two months, or whatever it was. Everyone loved him, adored him. He would participate in all of the group and do everything right except for take ownership of his own problem. He went there and would fix everybody else, and that's how he thought he was getting better, But he never really fixed himself.
00:13:44
Speaker 1: Do you think he wanted to.
00:13:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know he wanted to.
00:13:48
Speaker 1: Why do you think he couldn't? Was it just that had such power over him?
00:13:52
Speaker 2: Yeah? Alcoholism is just a monster. And I think everybody has a drink and thinks that it's not going to happen to them until it does, Until it's the monster. You wake up one day and you realize that you cannot fix it.
00:14:09
Speaker 1: It's one of those things that I have definitely pondered and thought about. Was how is it that I saw my psychiatrist he put me on a medication camperal, But literally from that day on, I've never touched the drop of alcohol nor wanted to. Yeah, why was I able to do that? And then, for example, Sean could stop for periods of time, but then would always go back and drink. And this happens with other people, And yet I don't understand why for me I could.
00:14:42
Speaker 2: Just culture stop culture.
00:14:46
Speaker 1: You think so? Yeah? So where he was working in the whole industry he was in definitely, Yeah, he lost his identity.
00:14:56
Speaker 2: He had spent his whole life working and he got to fifty and he had no hobbies. He was stuck in a grind where I think he was a Western suburb Sydney boy on his own from fifteen, and his entire life was about making money. So when I make money, I'm going to hit Nirvana as aye the goalpost change it does. Yeah, So he just didn't have any coping mechanisms on how to get off that grind. And then with that come the culture of drinking, and he just felt like he was nobody if he didn't have a drink in his hand. He just didn't know how to socialize without drinking.
00:15:50
Speaker 1: Do you think he had social anxiety?
00:15:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely he did.
00:15:54
Speaker 1: And what about depression, yes, So when you add those two together, I know from my own experience after I stopped drinking that I found socialized exceptionally hard, unbelievably hard. And in fact, I've spoken about this before. You know, I stopped socializing and just was surrounding myself with very particular people because I just couldn't couldn't do it, and I couldn't handle the narki comments and people offering me drinks. It was too much. So I just stopped. Now it doesn't worry me. But also I'm around people now that understand and don't do that sort of thing. You know, if someone now, yeah, I just get really shitty with them and just honestly, I just go and see you later. If someone doesn't understand my boundaries around alcohol. Jason doesn't drink much, so for that, I'm grateful and lucky. Neither do my kids, so I've been lucky in that. But to work in construction, everyone drinks on a Friday afternoon, you have social anxiety.
00:17:05
Speaker 2: You don't show vulnerability, so they don't reach out for help.
00:17:10
Speaker 1: So how many industries does that happen in? Especially for men? It happens at nursing.
00:17:16
Speaker 2: I think we're making headways with it, but we've got a long way to go.
00:17:22
Speaker 1: Through all of this. What was the impact on you?
00:17:27
Speaker 2: There was a lot of frustration for us because the family of an addict doesn't really have a voice, so when Sean was in getting treatment, they can only go on what narrative Sean would give, and I just sometimes I would be so frustrated because I'd think, you know, I loved him and I was all there to support him. But if they really wanted an honest account of where Sean was.
00:17:59
Speaker 1: Really at, asked you.
00:18:01
Speaker 2: They should have asked the family, and they don't because the laws with privacy and so forth. But yeah, I just I just think we were there to support him. We hadn't walked away it just if I hadn't had a voice, it would have been did Jean push you away? No, No, definitely not, but he always sort of had a handle on it to the big old world.
00:18:25
Speaker 1: Did you share it with other people? Like, yes, you were always quite open with Jason, with us and that sort of thing. How did other people respond when you told them?
00:18:37
Speaker 2: They were really positive? Like I didn't lose any friends. I think alcoholism in Australia it's huge. And if anything, I had people approach me, you know, they'd call or text or whatever and say, oh, look you know my husband he's doing the same thing, or you know my sister or brother or my child. Yeah, if anything, I got like it's almost a relief when somebody is brave enough to stand there and say, hey, this is happening to me. I am blown away by how many people then are brave enough to go or actually, yeah, it's happening in our house too.
00:19:20
Speaker 1: The number of clients that asked me how I stopped drinking and what I did and how I did it and is phenomenal and is definitely a problem in women, middle aged female. I think it's a huge issue in this country. Yes, I believe it's certainly an issue with men. But once a week at least at least a client would ask me how I managed, or they've got a loved one that they're worried, like you said, loved one they're worried about, or they're worried about themselves. Yeah, and I think, what courage that. Well, as you've taken the first step.
00:19:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. And we were alcohol free at home. I don't drink. I've never really been a drinker at all. I think from very early on in our marriage, I just well, it doesn't bother me either way. I've never been sort of like, oh I really want to drink, or I'm quite happy not to drink. So then we fell into the habit of what I would drive and he would drink because he wasn't not going to drink. So it was either we both drink or just he drinks. So it was never ever an option that I would drink and he wouldn't.
00:20:36
Speaker 1: When did it reach a tipping point for you guys? Or do you just didn't know the things? So he left, He left yes, he come home one night and said, I can't do it. But he was spiraling out of control and he didn't leave.
00:20:50
Speaker 2: He ran. He ran, and he ran because we were the only ones that knew. So when he ran, he surrounded himself with people that they were just vultures and they were quite happy to party and drink, and you know, birds of a feather flocked together, and that's where he went. But you know, I just I was always firm in my conversation with him, where I said, you know, the door was always open when you're ready to stop running, where he had to support you. I think my saving grace with our relationship was I never took it personally. Sean's addiction wasn't his reflection of his love for me. He loved his family and he still did everything for us because he loved us and I.
00:21:43
Speaker 1: Even after he'd left.
00:21:45
Speaker 2: Absolutely, he just ran. Nothing changed. He just ran. And you know when he went into rehab. I've had so many people, the doctors or owners of private health rehabs that he'd gone into, have contacted me since he's passed away to say what an incredible person, And they all say he just spoke of how much he loved his family the whole time. So it's hard, but I think we need to understand that alcohol doesn't always stem from unhappy marriages or unhappy families, or finances or lack of a job or lack of a roof over your head. Because he had all of that and he loved that. He just didn't love himself.
00:22:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he never addressed it.
00:22:31
Speaker 2: He didn't think he was worthy. And yeah, so that's a really hard thing because I couldn't love him out of it. He could only do it himself. So then he would go and get the help, and then he would spiral back into the depression and anxiety sleep deprivation cycle.
00:22:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he was never able to manage that through counseling or through meditation, or it was just something he couldn't get a grip on.
00:23:10
Speaker 2: He would do it, he'd be fine for a while, and then I don't know, I'll never know. I'll never know what triggered him.
00:23:22
Speaker 1: So when you talk about Sean being triggered, are you talking about him being triggered to drinkah? And would he try and hide it at first?
00:23:37
Speaker 2: He always hit it, always, always, Yeah, it was done in secret.
00:23:42
Speaker 1: But then that's addiction, isn't it.
00:23:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it wasn't. Sort of like he was staggering out of a part and it was all very apparent.
00:23:49
Speaker 1: He wasn't.
00:23:50
Speaker 2: He was going to work and he was doing twenty hour days. But once everyone else had knocked off, he would he would sit at his desk working and did it after good.
00:24:02
Speaker 1: Good male friends or the people. He could talk to you about this, yes.
00:24:07
Speaker 2: But he's no, he didn't talk to anyone about it, so that must.
00:24:11
Speaker 1: Be pretty lonely. Yeah, and he wouldn't talk about it with you.
00:24:16
Speaker 2: I have since been shown the power of shame and how you can have guild and you can have shame, and people think they're the same thing, and they're not. They're two very very different scenarios. And you know, when the padre came to visit myself and my daughters, he was asking my daughter, you know, tell me about Dad, and she said, you know, he was just my world. But Dad just couldn't get over his shame. Even though we said, Dad, you know we love you and we are here to support you and you know, to paint the picture. We weren't sitting at home ever in a negative. It was always hope and growth and that kind of language, and he just carried this shame of when the addiction did take over and then he did run, and then you know, he we welcomed him back in and he got the help and things like that. Then he just couldn't get past.
00:25:16
Speaker 1: It was more.
00:25:18
Speaker 2: He struggled with shame than addiction towards the end. And you know, and the Padre explained to me that, you know, guilt and shame are two very different things, and ones like a box with three sides, And that's guilt because you can sit in that open box and you can think, Okay, I feel guilty and pretty lousy about what I've just done, but there's pathways and I can get out of the box that I'm in. But when you feel shame, you're trapped inside of a box with no lid and silence.
00:25:49
Speaker 1: Shame grows in silence, yes, and people with addictions are really good at being silent.
00:25:54
Speaker 2: Yes, But it wasn't because he was unhappy. And I think, you know this is we're all starting to learn this now that we are talking about alcoholic dips and death by suicide, particularly that it's not happening to our down and outs. It's not happening to our I mean broadly speaking, it's happening to every walk of life. But it's not just people that have had something awful. And I know from my own experience that people after Sean passed away, we're digging into our family to find a reason, you know that, oh, they must have gone broke, or their marriage must be unhappy, or something's happened because we don't we're not there yet when it comes to talking about suicide and mental health, and particularly male mental health, and we just don't want to think that it could just happen to anyone. There doesn't have to be a reason for it.
00:27:01
Speaker 1: Something like ninety five percent of death by suicide, you know, someone who decides to jump off a bridge or just something under the influence of alcohol and drugs. It is huge. Now, what have they made that decision? If they were sober or hadn't completely, they would make a different decision. And that might mean, like you said, doesn't mean necessarily they've got an addiction issue or any but under that influence of those substances, yeah, a temporary situation, they've made a really patent decision. And my daughter Chloe did a big research subject in Public Health on death by suicide with men in mining camps for fifo. You know, and we never hear about it, But one male a week dies by suicide, one male a week in those camps or goes home and can't cope and then takes his own life, one a week, and you never hear about it.
00:28:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, thank you for using the language that's by suicide too. I think it's definitely more relevant. You know, we've shifted away from saying committed suicide because it's sounding like a crime, and it's not a crime. It was a cry for help.
00:28:25
Speaker 1: Oh it's you know. I mean back in the day, I mean, you weren't apparently meant to go to heaven, or you weren't allowed to get your insurance, or there were so many other factors around dying by suicide. And thankfully a lot of that dialogue is changing. I know from my own experience, having had depression and anxiety that I mean, I would never have done anything, but there are moments where I know I can remember thinking to myself, this is.
00:29:02
Speaker 2: Too hard, Yeah feel consuming.
00:29:06
Speaker 1: You know, it's too hard. And imagine if I had had that thought and were still drinking the decision I could have made from that, and I suppose that then leads us into I suppose Part B of this conversation that concludes Part A of this tough conversation. Next week we'll continue right from where we left for Part B. Thank you for listening. This episode was brought to you by CMR. We're proud to support nurses, doctors and allied health professionals across all of Australia because when you feel supported, whole communities thrive together. We're building happier healthcare and if you want to learn more, check them out at CMR dot com dot Au. And I just want to say, these guys really care about their medical staff and get in great jobs and employment for them, so definitely check them out. I've been blown away by what they offer and how they look after their teams. So if they're worth checking out as a nurse in particular, but as a healthcare worker, check them out at CMR dot com dot Au
